From wgrosenbach at juno.com Sat Sep 1 21:23:58 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 21:23:58 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Colfax Cruise Message-ID: <20070901.212359.3860.9.wgrosenbach@juno.com> For those in the area. . . Please see the information below about the Colfax Avenue Cruise. COLFAX AVENUE CRUISE  2007 The Colfax Avenue Cruise will be held September 22, 2007. This is an event that Old Car Council of Colorado has had in the planning stage for two years. Sponsorship is in place and here is what is planned. The cruise will have three sites set up on Colfax Avenue. The sites are the Super K-Mart at Colfax Aveny ue and Chambers Road, East High School, and the Festival Center at Colfax Avenue and Irving Street in west Denver. Each site will have a car display by OCCC member cars, music, food vendors, car club displays, and other car-related displays by vendors. The sites will operate from 4 pm to 8 pm. The car club members working at the sites will help with site set-up, site operation, and site clean up. The Colorado Chapter of POCI will be teamed with the Colorado Cobra Club and the Packard Club to operate the site at East High School. The Sabers Club and the AMC Club will anchor the Aurora site and the Denver Roadster Club and the ColoRODans will man the site in west Denver. The promotion of the Colfax Avenue Cruise will be by radio station KOOL105. The radio station will also help with music at each of the sites. The charity to benefit from the event is D.A.R.E.. D.A.R.E officers will be present at each site and have a display vehicle and give-aways for kids. The main sponsors of the event are the network of Colorado Select Car Care Centers and NAPA Auto Parts. The money from the sponsors will be used to finance operation of the sites (permits, security, rental of equipment), fund a donation to D.A.R.E., and the fund the operation of OCCC. The car clubs operating the sites will profit from the sale of tee shirt s and fees from the vendors at the sites. The Colfax Avenue Cruise is going to be great and you will want to get in on the ground floor of this annual event. This event needs your support. We need to have a variety of cars on display at the sites on Saturday, September 22. The Colfax Avenue Cruse an event that is important to the future of the old car hobby. It is important that this event be a success so that we strengthening the financial position of the Old Car Council of Colorado. We believe that the OCCC is an important organization in the preservation of the old cars. Make a Commitment and join us to support the old car hobby. From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 2 17:29:26 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 19:29:26 EDT Subject: [Fot] Multi function brake switch Message-ID: Amici, Does anyone know of a hydraulic brake switch with both normally open and normally closed contacts. When you push the brakes the brake light circuit closes but another circuit opens? Any idea how to find such a thing? Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 2 17:36:51 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 19:36:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Multi function brake switch Message-ID: In a message dated 9/2/2007 4:34:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, mdporter at dfn.com writes: > > Amici, > > Does anyone know of a hydraulic brake switch with both normally open and > > normally closed contacts. When you push the brakes the brake light > circuit closes > > but another circuit opens? Any idea how to find such a thing? Steve > > > > > > > > > Never heard of such, but, whatever you want to do with something like > that can be done with a relay in the circuit. > > > Quite true, I'm just trying to avoid that complexity in an already overcrowded Jaguar engine bay...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 2 18:10:15 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 20:10:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] Multi function brake switch Message-ID: Almost exactly the same need. I want to drop out the OD circuit on a 700R4 trans when the brakes are applied. Do you have any numbers for those Bosch switches? Thanx, Steve Steve, You can use a commodity Bosch relay. These have normally open and normally closed contacts. They are apparently used all over modern cars, so can be had very cheaply. I use one for my overdrive wiring, so that I can use the a switch on the reverse gear to lock out the overdrive, which is opposite from the normal switch arrangement. Larry _Gt6steve at aol.com_ (mailto:Gt6steve at aol.com) wrote Almost exactly my ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From cartravel at pobox.com Sun Sep 2 18:49:14 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 19:49:14 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Multi function brake switch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46DB5A0A.2050408@pobox.com> I believe this is the one I'm using http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=330-070. Some of the stuff sold at Napa, etc. don't have both circuits (SPST not SPDT). Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: > Almost exactly the same need. I want to drop out the OD circuit on a > 700R4 trans when the brakes are applied. Do you have any numbers for > those Bosch switches? > > Thanx, Steve > > Steve, > You can use a commodity Bosch relay. These have normally open and > normally closed contacts. They are apparently used all over > modern cars, so can be had very cheaply. I use one for my > overdrive wiring, so that I can use the a switch on the reverse > gear to lock out the overdrive, which is opposite from the normal > switch arrangement. > Larry > > Gt6steve at aol.com wrote > > Almost exactly my > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com > . From awashatko at wi.rr.com Mon Sep 3 10:31:27 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 11:31:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 TR6 Front Brakes Message-ID: FoT, Does anyone have any technical information regarding the use of Jag calipers/rotors/hubs on the Group 44 TR6? VSCDA would allow me to run these but I can't seem to find any specific information. Any help would be much appreciated. Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Mon Sep 3 12:12:50 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 11:12:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 TR6 Front Brakes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46DC4EA2.8060608@cyberspeedway.net> Allen, As I remember, the Jag brakes were allowed in 1980. They are originally from the XKE V12 and god knows what else. They are the odd 3 piston design. The part numbers are still in the PCS. The rotors are the same as XKE V12 and XJ6. I think Rod Kent has drawings for the hub and spindle from Group 44. I will see if I can get them. Greg Lund Allen Washatko wrote: > FoT, > > Does anyone have any technical information regarding the use of Jag > calipers/rotors/hubs on the Group 44 TR6? VSCDA would allow me to run > these but I can't seem to find any specific information. > > Any help would be much appreciated. > > Allen > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gtlund at cyberspeedway.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Sep 3 13:09:22 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 15:09:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Group 44 TR6 Front Brakes Message-ID: In a message dated 09/03/2007 1:13:20 PM Central Daylight Time, gtlund at cyberspeedway.net writes: > As I remember, the Jag brakes were allowed in 1980. They are > originally from the XKE V12 and god knows what else. They are the odd 3 > piston design. The part numbers are still in the PCS. The rotors are the > same as XKE V12 and XJ6. I think Rod Kent has drawings for the hub and > spindle from Group 44. I will see if I can get them. > Allen... I'm leaving late tonight for WATKINS GLEN, but I plan to be back in time to run ELKHART LAKE the following week end. We may have some of that stuff. The Thunder Bolt had early XKE brakes on the front when we started out with her. But we busted a rotor at Blackhawk one time and instead of replacing it we detuned to TR4 disc brakes (because we understand them). Regardless, that stuff should be available from JAG spare houses like Terry's Jaguar. Bill Terry is a neat, dependable guy. Bill Dentinger ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Mon Sep 3 15:15:30 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 14:15:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 TR6 Front Brakes In-Reply-To: <000001c7ee5d$d5567210$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> References: <46DC4EA2.8060608@cyberspeedway.net> <000001c7ee5d$d5567210$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> Message-ID: <46DC7972.709@cyberspeedway.net> Rod and his brother Dale have just about finished putting it back together after the wreck at the Runoffs in '98. The only straight panel on the car was the passenger door. The car was completely stripped and rebuilt. The paint scheme is like the Kastner-Brophy #12 in the same colors as near as Dale could get it. It should be back on track for a few Regionals this fall. Greg Mike Munson wrote: > Greg, > I need a set of the drawings as well. > > Is Rod still racing his car? > Is it still around? From vintage.racer at comcast.net Mon Sep 3 20:24:55 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 19:24:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] rubber mounted SUs Message-ID: <001a01c7ee9a$c8d0a640$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: I've just installed the Weber-style rubber "O" ring carb mounts in place of the solid insulation blocks that normally go between the carbs and intake manifold. For those that have completed this installation, how much torque is recommended for the nuts to hold the carbs in place with compressing the rubber to much? Thanks. Gary '62 TR4 From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Sep 3 20:58:52 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 20:58:52 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Hastings 9/6 Message-ID: Evening all... just found out it will be standing room only @ Hastings with 147 entries. Just like the old RMVR days! Real nice to hear... A few Spits & TR's & lil' ole' me in the GT#6. Kevin From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Tue Sep 4 00:29:38 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 23:29:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks Message-ID: <000201c7eebc$f818ddb0$4a7aac43@computer> Any suggestions as to what oil to use in the stock rear shocks in a TR6 for autox and race but no street use. I was going to use motorcycle fork oil but I wasn't sure what weight. I see Kas says to use #40 racing oil but I'm not exactly sure what that is. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Tue Sep 4 08:20:39 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 10:20:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Lime Rock Labor Day Vintage event In-Reply-To: <000201c7eebc$f818ddb0$4a7aac43@computer> References: <000201c7eebc$f818ddb0$4a7aac43@computer> Message-ID: <003101c7eefe$c6bf2cf0$1442a8c0@semperon3400> The annual Lime Rock Vintage event was nice but underwhelming to say the least. 10-15 car race groups on Monday due to attrition... And small entries. Pity The paddocks were half full (try to be optimistic). It looks like Peyote broke, but I don't know the story and didn't get over to say hello... On to Watkins Glen tomorrow for the real big one (crewing for #928 MG-TD)! Clark My photos of LRP are here: http://picasaweb.google.com/Milo066 From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Tue Sep 4 15:30:29 2007 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 17:30:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks References: <000201c7eebc$f818ddb0$4a7aac43@computer> Message-ID: <001301c7ef3a$d12edf00$64092218@alex> Moss motors can sell you a qt. and Apple products a long time rebuilder of leverarms from all eras and makes recomends just 15wght. rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:29 AM Subject: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks > Any suggestions as to what oil to use in the stock rear shocks in a TR6 > for > autox and race but no street use. I was going to use motorcycle fork oil > but I wasn't sure what weight. I see Kas says to use #40 racing oil but > I'm > not exactly sure what that is. > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > 19to1tr6 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Sep 3 23:07:32 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 22:07:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Limited Slip diffs Message-ID: Foter's, I was gone all weekend and haven't been able to get email while away. Anyway, Ken has replied to me that he can take Visa or MC credit cards for the deposit and the full payment. The price of the units will be about $1500 plus any local shipping. Ken has also told me he may have found a way to save on the freight from England. One person has mentioned sending the items Greyhound and I would have to check with Ken about that first though. I can also get a mailing address for those wishing to send Ken a check. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 Kens information is as follows: British Frame and Engine Telephone/Fax: 626-443-0939 Email: bfeken at copper.net ---------------------------------------- From: "Charly Mitchel" Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 12:43 PM To: fot at autox.team.net>, "Charly Mitchel" > >> >> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: fot-bounces+ryoung=navcomtech.com at autox.team.net >>> [mailto:fot-bounces+ryoung=navcomtech.com at autox.team.net] On >>> Behalf Of Charly Mitchel >>> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 12:49 PM >>> To: fot at autox.team.net >>> Subject: [Fot] Limited Slip diffs >>> >>> I've got a cost on the Tran-X units or at least an estimated >>> cost. The >>> unknown cost are the duty on the items paid upon relapse from >>> customs and the >>> shipping to each individual buyer. >>> >>> Ken Gillanders tells me the cost will be about $1500 plus the >>> local shipping >>> costs. >>> This is not a definite cost but a very close estimate. >>> Please let me know if >>> you're interested. >>> Charly Mitchel >>> TR6 #44 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> ryoung at navcomtech.com >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >>> CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files >>> transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to >>> NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are >>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to >>> whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence >>> and not disclosed to third parties without the written >>> consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient >>> or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail >>> to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received >>> this electronic mail in error and that any use, >>> dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this >>> electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received >>> this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the >>> sender by return mail. >>> >> >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it >> may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of >> its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or >> entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and >> not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. >> If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for >> delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that >> you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, >> dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail >> is >> strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, >> please immediately notify the sender by return mail. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> charly at mitchelplumbing.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Catpusher at aol.com Tue Sep 4 22:45:32 2007 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 00:45:32 EDT Subject: [Fot] Subject: rubber mounted SUs Message-ID: I used spiral springs/and or/rubber like washers under nylock nuts retaining the SUs, and found that minor adjustments made major BHP/RPM changes on the dyno. What SUs are you using? Are you using a cold air box mounted to them? Hardy Hello: I've just installed the Weber-style rubber "O" ring carb mounts in place of the solid insulation blocks that normally go between the carbs and intake manifold. For those that have completed this installation, how much torque is recommended for the nuts to hold the carbs in place with compressing the rubber to much? Thanks. Gary '62 TR4 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Catpusher at aol.com Tue Sep 4 23:00:30 2007 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 01:00:30 EDT Subject: [Fot] Subject: Group 44 TR6 Front Brakes Message-ID: They were from the Series 3 E Type Jaguar (V12) and one year of XJ. The calipers bolt directly to the TR4A/6 standard brackets. I used Tilton hubs that PLN had paid Tilton to design. I ran this setup for quite a few seasons. Hardy Does anyone have any technical information regarding the use of Jag calipers/rotors/hubs on the Group 44 TR6? VSCDA would allow me to run these but I can't seem to find any specific information. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From chris at tr4-racing.de Wed Sep 5 00:15:26 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 08:15:26 +0200 Subject: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks Message-ID: <3424F4C248214151973872FF500003FE@Notebook> I use a mixture of EP 320 and EP 680 gearbox oil. You'll need an lever extension to remove air from the shocks. Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Drews To: chris at tr4-racing.de Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:27 PM Subject: Fwd: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks Delivered-To: tony at tonydrews.com X-Virus-Scan: Scanned by clamdmail 0.15 (no viruses); Tue, 04 Sep 2007 01:30:03 -0500 X-Original-To: FOT at autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot at autox.team.net From: "jim hearn" To: Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 23:29:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/mixed by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Subject: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks X-BeenThere: fot at autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 List-Id: Friends of Triumph List-Unsubscribe: < http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot>, < mailto:fot-request at autox.team.net?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: < http://autox.team.net/pipermail/fot> List-Post: < mailto:fot at autox.team.net> List-Help: < mailto:fot-request at autox.team.net?subject=help> List-Subscribe: < http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot>, < mailto:fot-request at autox.team.net?subject=subscribe> Sender: fot-bounces+tony=tonydrews.com at autox.team.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on localhost X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=disabled version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: Any suggestions as to what oil to use in the stock rear shocks in a TR6 for autox and race but no street use. I was going to use motorcycle fork oil but I wasn't sure what weight. I see Kas says to use #40 racing oil but I'm not exactly sure what that is. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tony at tonydrews.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From RYoung at navcomtech.com Wed Sep 5 14:56:17 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 13:56:17 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR3 bore sizes? In-Reply-To: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A5C1D37@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> References: <520161.3333.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A5C1D37@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Message-ID: > Forgetting the liners for a moment what about the stuck Grose > jets in TR6's? I have seen that many times. I've been seeing a lot more stuck float valves of every sort (both Grose and non-Grose, SU, ZS, non-CD, etc.) the last few years than I ever saw before. Even my lawnmower caught the disease ! Doesn't prove anything I know, but I believe it's a change in gasoline formulation. Old gasoline would form a soft brown deposit much like old varnish; while the new stuff seems to form a much harder, whitish deposit. FWIW, I got mad at the stuck float valve on the Stag a couple days ago, and rather than pulling the carb, blew some compressed air through the fuel line. Amazingly enough, it actually worked (after it blew apart the joint that wasn't clamped properly ) Randall From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Wed Sep 5 18:36:50 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 17:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] 1147 Crank Seal Message-ID: <291682.96881.qm@web53509.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hey FOT, I have located and purchased an 1147 crank for my race car, there is a difference from the crank I had before in that on the flywheel end of the crank there is a "scroll" (looks like threads so as it rotates it returns oil back to the block) in the fat end. It appears that this design would "sling" the oil back into the block, but I am not sure of the purpose. My question is, does this type of crank design use the same rear seal as the crank without the "scroll"??? Or do I need a different type of seal?? Thanks Jay --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From Herald948 at aol.com Wed Sep 5 19:30:41 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 21:30:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] 1147 Crank Seal Message-ID: In a message dated 9/5/2007 8:37:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: I have located and purchased an 1147 crank for my race car, there is a difference from the crank I had before in that on the flywheel end of the crank there is a "scroll" (looks like threads so as it rotates it returns oil back to the block) in the fat end. It appears that this design would "sling" the oil back into the block, but I am not sure of the purpose. My question is, does this type of crank design use the same rear seal as the crank without the "scroll"??? Or do I need a different type of seal?? Jay, others will, I'm sure, be able to give you much more detail, but it sounds like the crank you got is the earlier type and does indeed have the "scroll" to fling the oil back into the engine. If I remember correctly, it has -- instead of an oil seal and its housing -- what the spare parts catalogue calls the "oil retaining cover -- rear." I also recall that this crank was used until fairly late in the Mk2 Spitfires, then the later crank was used through the early 1296 "small journal" blocks. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Gt6steve at aol.com Wed Sep 5 19:37:55 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 21:37:55 EDT Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? Message-ID: Amici. Are any of the western FOT going to Buttonwillow? I'm still totally ambivalent but find myself polishing the car. Give me some incentive to head for the only track I hate...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From klynch_6 at msn.com Wed Sep 5 20:31:54 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 20:31:54 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? References: Message-ID: How about a track you'd love? Hastings! ok, I tried... http://www.racemph.com/ Kev ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 7:37 PM Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? Amici. Are any of the western FOT going to Buttonwillow? I'm still totally ambivalent but find myself polishing the car. Give me some incentive to head for the only track I hate...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From norlinengineering at comcast.net Wed Sep 5 20:53:54 2007 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 19:53:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 1147 Crank Seal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c7f031$2a8c4cd0$020ba8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP> Jay What Andy has told you is accurate from what I know. The scroll seal on the early cranks worked just like the scroll seal on the front of the early stock gearboxes. What is normally done for racing is to have a sleeve made from stainless steel to eliminate the scroll and bring the diameter out to match the oil seal dimension of the later cranks. If you don't want to do this for some reason, I've probably got one or more of the old style "oil retaining covers" buried in my stash of stuff. Jim Norlin -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 6:31 PM To: jaxonracing at yahoo.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] 1147 Crank Seal In a message dated 9/5/2007 8:37:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: I have located and purchased an 1147 crank for my race car, there is a difference from the crank I had before in that on the flywheel end of the crank there is a "scroll" (looks like threads so as it rotates it returns oil back to the block) in the fat end. It appears that this design would "sling" the oil back into the block, but I am not sure of the purpose. My question is, does this type of crank design use the same rear seal as the crank without the "scroll"??? Or do I need a different type of seal?? Jay, others will, I'm sure, be able to give you much more detail, but it sounds like the crank you got is the earlier type and does indeed have the "scroll" to fling the oil back into the engine. If I remember correctly, it has -- instead of an oil seal and its housing -- what the spare parts catalogue calls the "oil retaining cover -- rear." I also recall that this crank was used until fairly late in the Mk2 Spitfires, then the later crank was used through the early 1296 "small journal" blocks. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From brad.kahler at 141.com Wed Sep 5 21:21:43 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:21:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] 1147 Crank Seal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46DF7247.2080705@141.com> Herald948 at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/5/2007 8:37:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > I have located and purchased an 1147 crank for my race car, there is a > difference from the crank I had before in that on the flywheel end of the crank > there is a "scroll" (looks like threads so as it rotates it returns oil back > to the block) in the fat end. It appears that this design would "sling" the > oil back into the block, but I am not sure of the purpose. > > My question is, does this type of crank design use the same rear seal as the > crank without the "scroll"??? Or do I need a different type of seal?? > > > Jay, others will, I'm sure, be able to give you much more detail, but it > sounds like the crank you got is the earlier type and does indeed have the > "scroll" to fling the oil back into the engine. If I remember correctly, it has -- > instead of an oil seal and its housing -- what the spare parts catalogue > calls the "oil retaining cover -- rear." I also recall that this crank was used > until fairly late in the Mk2 Spitfires, then the later crank was used through > the early 1296 "small journal" blocks. > > One thing to add to Andy's post is the 1147 crank will work in a 1296 engine just fine. All you hae to do is install a Speedi-Sleeve part number 99287 from either National or CR. We're currently running an 1147 crank with a Speedi-Sleeve installed in Susan's race car. Works just fine! Brad From chasgee at aol.com Wed Sep 5 22:47:45 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 00:47:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9BE58337013FA-F14-6DF5@MBLK-M01.sysops.aol.com> I'm going....I'll bring beer, is that enough incentive? Chuck Blacksmith Racing -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 6:37 pm Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? Amici. Are any of the western FOT going to Buttonwillow? I'm still totally ambivalent but find myself polishing the car. Give me some incentive to head for the only track I hate...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From mlbruner53 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 5 22:53:03 2007 From: mlbruner53 at yahoo.com (Michael Bruner) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 21:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <383591.1615.qm@web54112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I'm going I'll bring the Jack, is that enough incentive? Mike Bruner Blacksmith Racing #612 Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: Amici. Are any of the western FOT going to Buttonwillow? I'm still totally ambivalent but find myself polishing the car. Give me some incentive to head for the only track I hate...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour mlbruner53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Mike Bruner TR4A - #612 Blacksmith Racing --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. From jfrymark at aol.com Thu Sep 6 13:09:23 2007 From: jfrymark at aol.com (John Frymark) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:09:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow Message-ID: <8001B7A9-7978-4323-A057-D9C42C3EFA7B@aol.com> Well I guess you won't need the MARGARATOR, so count me out! John Frymark From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 17:00:07 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 16:00:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow References: <8001B7A9-7978-4323-A057-D9C42C3EFA7B@aol.com> Message-ID: <000701c7f0d9$ac0337d0$0301000a@Chowdown> Dudes, my wife is pregnant. I ain't goin racin' till hopefully Willow in Nov. ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frymark" To: "Steve Smith" ; "Mike Bruner" ; "Chuck Gee" Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:09 PM Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow > Well I guess you won't need the MARGARATOR, so count me out! > > John Frymark > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jfrymark at aol.com Thu Sep 6 18:31:53 2007 From: jfrymark at aol.com (John Frymark) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 17:31:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow In-Reply-To: <000701c7f0d9$ac0337d0$0301000a@Chowdown> References: <8001B7A9-7978-4323-A057-D9C42C3EFA7B@aol.com> <000701c7f0d9$ac0337d0$0301000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <3C72F9F7-633C-4210-AB70-866110E3A1BF@aol.com> Yeah...right! John On Sep 6, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Steve Belfer wrote: > Dudes, my wife is pregnant. I ain't goin racin' till hopefully > Willow in Nov. > > ~Steve > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frymark" > To: "Steve Smith" ; "Mike Bruner" > ; "Chuck Gee" > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:09 PM > Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow > > >> Well I guess you won't need the MARGARATOR, so count me out! >> >> John Frymark >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> colordog.1 at earthlink.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Sep 6 20:30:20 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 21:30:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Motor Oil Message-ID: FoT, After all the discussions about motor oil, what is the current general consensus on the usable brands? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Sep 6 21:10:58 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 22:10:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Rear Diff Message-ID: FoT, Anyone have a lead on a 4:11 or 4:33 rear diff for a TR6? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From chris at tr4-racing.de Fri Sep 7 01:48:24 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 09:48:24 +0200 Subject: [Fot] AUDI R8 UNPLUGGED Message-ID: <002001c7f123$78bf49a0$6402a8c0@HOME> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFFb39n1XrM From Gt6steve at aol.com Fri Sep 7 06:16:16 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 08:16:16 EDT Subject: [Fot] Motor Oil Message-ID: In a message dated 9/6/2007 7:30:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: FoT, After all the discussions about motor oil, what is the current general consensus on the usable brands? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 I like them... ;-0 Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Fri Sep 7 08:46:09 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 07:46:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c7f15d$d42474c0$4a7aac43@computer> Steve, I'm just curious. I never have even seen Buttonwillow but why is it that you hate it? Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gt6steve at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 6:38 PM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? Amici. Are any of the western FOT going to Buttonwillow? I'm still totally ambivalent but find myself polishing the car. Give me some incentive to head for the only track I hate...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Fri Sep 7 15:15:34 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 21:15:34 GMT Subject: [Fot] Motor Oil Message-ID: <20070907.171534.17863.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com> Not sure if there is a consensus. I have been using Joe Gibbs oil, which is made for flat tappet engines. Joe(B) -- Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/6/2007 7:30:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: FoT, After all the discussions about motor oil, what is the current general consensus on the usable brands? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 I like them... ;-0 Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Be your own boss today! Go to Technical School. Click here. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijngzT1tY9UULC042Y76sQN5nhW Ocep3fd5sWfbnJfgQXpv99/ From vintage.racer at comcast.net Fri Sep 7 21:56:39 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 20:56:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo Message-ID: <000801c7f1cc$4289fbb0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: I need some advice on the probable solution to a brake servo problem that just popped up. This is for a stock 1969 TR-6. Symptons: 1. When pressing the brake pedal, I hear a soft "whooshing" sound which occurs whenever I pump the pedal. 2. The brake pedal requires more pressure. 3. The engine speed drops rapidly as long as there is pressure on the brake pedal. All this leads me to believe there is a leak in the brake servo unit. Looking in the service manual reveals that only a filter at the brake pedal end of the servo can be replaced. However, the Moss catalog shows the non-return valve and a seal & plate assembly are availalbe but no filter. The Victoria British catalog shows a repair kit but no description so not sure what is included. Any thoughts on which or both of these parts could fix the problem? If I remove the rubber hose from the brake servo unit (which leads to the intake manifold) and temporarily block it off, will that alleviate the problem? Thanks. Gary 62 TR-4 69 TR-6 From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sat Sep 8 00:48:52 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 02:48:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Motor Oil Message-ID: As advised earlier, the most useful information is at: www.lnengineering.com/oil.html However, FWIW, I am presently using Valvoline Synpower 20W/50, of API SL rating, (NOT the SM found on most auto-store shelves), plus the STP 4-cylinder oil supplement in the RED container, which contains lots of ZDDP. When I next change the oil, I will be changing to Amsoil Series 2000 Racing (20w50), and using a fully Synthetic Mobil 1 Oil Filter. Hope that helps Best Regards Lion ps. it was really great to see my fellow FoTers up at PIR last weekend, especially Charly, stoic in the face of adversity. L http://community.websho ts.com/user/vitesse1963 From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sat Sep 8 18:22:08 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 10:22:08 +1000 Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo In-Reply-To: <000801c7f1cc$4289fbb0$4acd0518@GHOffice> References: <000801c7f1cc$4289fbb0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: Gary, Sounds like the diaphragm is split inside the servo. Kind Regards Peter Vucinic TR-4 _____________________________________________ Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: Saturday, 8 September 2007 1:57 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo Hello: I need some advice on the probable solution to a brake servo problem that just popped up. This is for a stock 1969 TR-6. Symptons: 1. When pressing the brake pedal, I hear a soft "whooshing" sound which occurs whenever I pump the pedal. 2. The brake pedal requires more pressure. 3. The engine speed drops rapidly as long as there is pressure on the brake pedal. All this leads me to believe there is a leak in the brake servo unit. Looking in the service manual reveals that only a filter at the brake pedal end of the servo can be replaced. However, the Moss catalog shows the non-return valve and a seal & plate assembly are availalbe but no filter. The Victoria British catalog shows a repair kit but no description so not sure what is included. Any thoughts on which or both of these parts could fix the problem? If I remove the rubber hose from the brake servo unit (which leads to the intake manifold) and temporarily block it off, will that alleviate the problem? Thanks. Gary 62 TR-4 69 TR-6 pvucinic at netspace.net.au Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vintage.racer at comcast.net Sun Sep 9 10:29:28 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 09:29:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo Message-ID: <000a01c7f2fe$98068e90$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: Thanks to all who replyed with solutions to my brake servo problem. I've temporarily blocked the vacuum hose and will look for a replacement servo. Gary From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sun Sep 9 17:35:07 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 16:35:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau Message-ID: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Here's a link to a file I just posted to my site with a slideshow of a Mysterious Tonneau Cover. It's mysterious because I don't know what car it's for. http://www.guppypuppy.com/Mysterytonneau.html I suspect it's for a TR4 but there's no way to be sure without an actual TR4 to try it on. Can any of you guys identify it? Oh yeah, if anyone wants it, I'll sell it to a fellow F.O.T. for el-cheapo. It's in perfect condition but has been in a box for many years. (at least 10) It says "AERO" on the zipper. ~Steve From BillB at bnj.com Sun Sep 9 17:50:54 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 16:50:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. Stupid beyond belief--he whacked me in the back left corner trying to re-pass me in an turn nine, and then tried to blame the wreck on me. I wound up pivoting on his bumper, being shoved sideways down the track with a big ass 57' Corvette rubbing my elbow and finally got shoved against the tire wall, which bent the suspension mounts on the right front corner. He could of killed me, he did indeed wreck the heck out of Peyote, and didn't have the integrity to even say "sorry your car got wrecked" or "glad you didn't get hurt". Weasel. I've been on the guilty side of an incident like this once, and though it was a lot less clearcut than this one (I hit a guy in the middle of his car when I couldn't brake in time as he cut across a chicane),I stepped up and apologized. Even paid for the guy's damage though I think it's wrong to do that--we all assume the risk of damage or injury when we choose to race. I'll fix my own car. The stewards didn't "decide" on their action, which I take to mean they wanted everyone cleared out before they decide to do nothing. They were already making noises about "mitigating aspects" when I talked to them, despite clear evidence like a big punt mark in the back of my car, a video from Karon's Devin, and lots of people that saw the incident. I know the corner worker on the scene must have been looking the wrong way--he asked me what happened. If I did such a bonehead thing I'd expect to get suspended, but the guy has run with SVRA for years and I'm just a guy from Oregon that they may never see again. They're the ones that will have to race with the weenie, I certainly wouldn't set a wheel on a track with him again. Anyway, the racing part of the tour is over. I'm making my way back across the country to lick my wounds in Portland. we'll do a little sightseeing on the way back and stop in Geneseo to pick up my motor from Uncle Jack. I will, of course, fix Peyote. From rocky at spitfire4.com Sun Sep 9 18:30:13 2007 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 19:30:13 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <003501c7f341$c21ca730$6401a8c0@S1099895562> That's two tonneaus. The silver one is for a RHD car, the black one is for a LHD car. It looks generic enough you could probably make it fit most cars that don't have headrests on the seats. Hope it's not a Robbins product. Those things are junk. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:35 PM Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau > Here's a link to a file I just posted to my site with a slideshow of a > Mysterious Tonneau Cover. > It's mysterious because I don't know what car it's for. > > http://www.guppypuppy.com/Mysterytonneau.html > > I suspect it's for a TR4 but there's no way to be sure without an actual > TR4 > to try it on. > > Can any of you guys identify it? > > Oh yeah, if anyone wants it, I'll sell it to a fellow F.O.T. for > el-cheapo. > It's in perfect condition but has been in a box for many years. (at least > 10) > It says "AERO" on the zipper. > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rocky at spitfire4.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sun Sep 9 19:34:33 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 18:34:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <001101c7f34a$bdc2faf0$0501000a@Chowdown> SOLD ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 4:35 PM Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau > Here's a link to a file I just posted to my site with a slideshow of a > Mysterious Tonneau Cover. > It's mysterious because I don't know what car it's for. > > http://www.guppypuppy.com/Mysterytonneau.html > > I suspect it's for a TR4 but there's no way to be sure without an actual > TR4 > to try it on. > > Can any of you guys identify it? > > Oh yeah, if anyone wants it, I'll sell it to a fellow F.O.T. for > el-cheapo. > It's in perfect condition but has been in a box for many years. (at least > 10) > It says "AERO" on the zipper. > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Sun Sep 9 20:11:25 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 22:11:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bill Sorry to hear your racing trek is over, and glad you were not hurt. You looked so vulnerable in Peyote when I saw you at Mosport...pretty close to an open wheel racer. Good luck on the rebuild and don't swipe too many road signs (spare parts??) as you make you way back to Portland. Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: September 9, 2007 7:51 PM To: Steve Belfer; Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sun Sep 9 21:48:08 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 23:48:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] brake servos Message-ID: ISTR that about the only person who rebuilds vacuum brake servos in the UK, is Peter Norton of Norton Classic Servos? I don't have his contact details handy, but he should be easy enough to find. He rebuilds both Lockeed and Girling Units and also sends out kits to those who wish to do it themselves. Nice fellow Best Regards Lion http://community.websho ts.com/user/vitesse1963 From mark at bradakis.com Sun Sep 9 22:07:28 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 22:07:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over In-Reply-To: References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <46E4C300.3060500@bradakis.com> Drat. If by some chance your return home involves cruising along I-80 through Utah, stop by and I'll buy you a cold one. mjb. From CoffeyJack at bfusa.com Mon Sep 10 07:03:10 2007 From: CoffeyJack at bfusa.com (Coffey, Jack) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:03:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo In-Reply-To: <000a01c7f2fe$98068e90$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: <5C33EB5352EE814AB72F655EA92399A20EF7FAF7@exc2-na-chq.bfusa.com> My servo had same symptoms.... I had it rebuilt by POWER BRAKE 503-238-8882 4533 S.E.DIVISION ST. PORTLAND OR. 97206 Only cost about $100 bucks and they did a great job Jack - TR250 coffeyjack at bfusa.com -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 11:29 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo Hello: Thanks to all who replyed with solutions to my brake servo problem. I've temporarily blocked the vacuum hose and will look for a replacement servo. Gary coffeyjack at bfusa.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 08:53:14 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:53:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over In-Reply-To: References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0709100753q23461481mdfed04bc4aa0eaeb@mail.gmail.com> Sorry Bill --would say that is racing, but not that kind of hit. Thought this was vintage?? SOVREN would not be so kind. You show your "gentlemanness" by not naming the perpetrator. On 9/9/07, Bill Babcock wrote: > > I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. Stupid beyond > belief--he whacked me in the back left corner trying to re-pass me in an > turn > nine, and then tried to blame the wreck on me. I wound up pivoting on his > bumper, being shoved sideways down the track with a big ass 57' Corvette > rubbing my elbow and finally got shoved against the tire wall, which bent > the > suspension mounts on the right front corner. He could of killed me, he did > indeed wreck the heck out of Peyote, and didn't have the integrity to even > say > "sorry your car got wrecked" or "glad you didn't get hurt". > > Weasel. > > I've been on the guilty side of an incident like this once, and though it > was > a lot less clearcut than this one (I hit a guy in the middle of his car > when I > couldn't brake in time as he cut across a chicane),I stepped up and > apologized. Even paid for the guy's damage though I think it's wrong to do > that--we all assume the risk of damage or injury when we choose to race. > I'll > fix my own car. > > The stewards didn't "decide" on their action, which I take to mean they > wanted > everyone cleared out before they decide to do nothing. They were already > making noises about "mitigating aspects" when I talked to them, despite > clear > evidence like a big punt mark in the back of my car, a video from Karon's > Devin, and lots of people that saw the incident. I know the corner worker > on > the scene must have been looking the wrong way--he asked me what happened. > > If I did such a bonehead thing I'd expect to get suspended, but the guy > has > run with SVRA for years and I'm just a guy from Oregon that they may never > see > again. They're the ones that will have to race with the weenie, I > certainly > wouldn't set a wheel on a track with him again. > > Anyway, the racing part of the tour is over. I'm making my way back across > the > country to lick my wounds in Portland. we'll do a little sightseeing on > the > way back and stop in Geneseo to pick up my motor from Uncle Jack. > > I will, of course, fix Peyote. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From tarch at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 10 10:42:56 2007 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:42:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20070910154331.443B318763D@autox.team.net> Bill, What a bummer! But it's not only the hardware that is at risk in events like this. In 26 years of vintage racing I have only made contact with another car once, and that was at the last race at Road Atlanta. After 4 laps of dicing in the Enduro, I tried to squeeze in on the inside of an MGB at turn One. My tires let go a little bit and I slid up against the right side of who was to become my newest best race-track friend, Lee Walker. The bump was my error in judgment and was clearly 100% my fault. I spun out but and got back on the track. Lee wobbled a mite but just kept on trucking. We both finished but after the race, when I went to his pit to apologize, Lee acknowledged that he knew what I was up to, lost me in his mirrors, and therefore he felt some responsibility. To assuage his (unwarranted) guilt (perhaps) he invited me to have a picnic lunch with his extended family from Mississippi. Lemonade, potato salad and all that stuff. He then invited me to go to church with them the next morning. It turns out that he is a writer and illustrator for children's text books. That he races an MGB notwithstanding, Lee is an intellectual and artistic guy. But more than that he is one of those few men whose high personal qualities are right there on the surface. I scratched that surface; I know. Bill, You may have scratched the surface of a different sort of character. But whatever might ooze out of that scratch washes right off if you catch it quickly enough. And it's also a shame about that trick little car of yours. I'll bet it comes back better than ever, too. Richard -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+tarch=bellsouth.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+tarch=bellsouth.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:51 PM To: Steve Belfer; Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. Stupid beyond belief--he whacked me in the back left corner trying to re-pass me in an turn nine, and then tried to blame the wreck on me. I wound up pivoting on his bumper, being shoved sideways down the track with a big ass 57' Corvette rubbing my elbow and finally got shoved against the tire wall, which bent the suspension mounts on the right front corner. He could of killed me, he did indeed wreck the heck out of Peyote, and didn't have the integrity to even say "sorry your car got wrecked" or "glad you didn't get hurt". Weasel. I've been on the guilty side of an incident like this once, and though it was a lot less clearcut than this one (I hit a guy in the middle of his car when I couldn't brake in time as he cut across a chicane),I stepped up and apologized. Even paid for the guy's damage though I think it's wrong to do that--we all assume the risk of damage or injury when we choose to race. I'll fix my own car. The stewards didn't "decide" on their action, which I take to mean they wanted everyone cleared out before they decide to do nothing. They were already making noises about "mitigating aspects" when I talked to them, despite clear evidence like a big punt mark in the back of my car, a video from Karon's Devin, and lots of people that saw the incident. I know the corner worker on the scene must have been looking the wrong way--he asked me what happened. If I did such a bonehead thing I'd expect to get suspended, but the guy has run with SVRA for years and I'm just a guy from Oregon that they may never see again. They're the ones that will have to race with the weenie, I certainly wouldn't set a wheel on a track with him again. Anyway, the racing part of the tour is over. I'm making my way back across the country to lick my wounds in Portland. we'll do a little sightseeing on the way back and stop in Geneseo to pick up my motor from Uncle Jack. I will, of course, fix Peyote. tarch at bellsouth.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 09:56:29 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:56:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> <001101c7f34a$bdc2faf0$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <000b01c7f3c3$26f23bd0$0501000a@Chowdown> When I imported the picture, somehow the image got flipped upside-down. It's Left-Hand-Drive. Early TR4. Thanks guys and, Bill DeWar, I hope you enjoy it. ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Steve Belfer" ; "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau > SOLD > > > > ~Steve > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Belfer" > To: "Friends of Triumph" > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 4:35 PM > Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau > > >> Here's a link to a file I just posted to my site with a slideshow of a >> Mysterious Tonneau Cover. >> It's mysterious because I don't know what car it's for. >> >> http://www.guppypuppy.com/Mysterytonneau.html >> >> I suspect it's for a TR4 but there's no way to be sure without an actual >> TR4 >> to try it on. >> >> Can any of you guys identify it? >> >> Oh yeah, if anyone wants it, I'll sell it to a fellow F.O.T. for >> el-cheapo. >> It's in perfect condition but has been in a box for many years. (at least >> 10) >> It says "AERO" on the zipper. >> >> ~Steve >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> colordog.1 at earthlink.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Sep 10 10:03:43 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Khartu Lives! Message-ID: Hi, Khartu-V2 made it's debut (finally!) on 9-SEP at a Jaguars of New England "slalom"... it did pretty good too! The weather started off "iffy" with heavy showers, but the showers dipersed and the "track" started drying and the times started dropping. I wound up getting FTD, although about .5 of a second off my normal times on the Jag "standard" national course. At any rate, it was good to get back in the saddle of "my old friend" again. Now all I have to to do is fugoure out why the motor is smoking out the tailpipe - a leakdown test is in order. I hope all the NET folks had fun eating lobstah "down east" on SAT. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 10:20:31 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:20:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <002501c7f3c6$82a8e750$0501000a@Chowdown> All Alluminum Tour is OverYour safety is the real important thing here and I'm glad you're okay. If it happened to me, I don't know how I would react. It sounds like the car is fixable, thank goodness. The thing is, it's pretty dangerous to have vehicles of such different sizes racing together. One slip-up and it's off into the weeds, the big car wins. I'm still tentative in my dad's old restored TR3, I don't want to get too close to anybody for fear of making contact. That Vette was not nearly as agile as your sports-racer as you darted around him in the heat of battle. He probably made a mistake and didn't whack you intentionally. If he did, he's in the wrong sport. A handshake and apology would have been the sportsman like thing to do. Either the Vette-guy was waiting for you to come over to him, or was afraid to confront you, or both. ~S ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Steve Belfer ; Friends of Triumph Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 4:50 PM Subject: All Alluminum Tour is Over I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. Stupid beyond belief--he whacked me in the back left corner trying to re-pass me in an turn nine, and then tried to blame the wreck on me. I wound up pivoting on his bumper, being shoved sideways down the track with a big ass 57' Corvette rubbing my elbow and finally got shoved against the tire wall, which bent the suspension mounts on the right front corner. He could of killed me, he did indeed wreck the heck out of Peyote, and didn't have the integrity to even say "sorry your car got wrecked" or "glad you didn't get hurt". Weasel. I've been on the guilty side of an incident like this once, and though it was a lot less clearcut than this one (I hit a guy in the middle of his car when I couldn't brake in time as he cut across a chicane),I stepped up and apologized. Even paid for the guy's damage though I think it's wrong to do that--we all assume the risk of damage or injury when we choose to race. I'll fix my own car. The stewards didn't "decide" on their action, which I take to mean they wanted everyone cleared out before they decide to do nothing. They were already making noises about "mitigating aspects" when I talked to them, despite clear evidence like a big punt mark in the back of my car, a video from Karon's Devin, and lots of people that saw the incident. I know the corner worker on the scene must have been looking the wrong way--he asked me what happened. If I did such a bonehead thing I'd expect to get suspended, but the guy has run with SVRA for years and I'm just a guy from Oregon that they may never see again. They're the ones that will have to race with the weenie, I certainly wouldn't set a wheel on a track with him again. Anyway, the racing part of the tour is over. I'm making my way back across the country to lick my wounds in Portland. we'll do a little sightseeing on the way back and stop in Geneseo to pick up my motor from Uncle Jack. I will, of course, fix Peyote. From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 10:21:20 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:21:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Khartu Lives! References: Message-ID: <002d01c7f3c6$9faba950$0501000a@Chowdown> What's a Khartu? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Lang" To: ; <6pack at autox.team.net> Cc: Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:03 AM Subject: [Fot] Khartu Lives! > Hi, > > Khartu-V2 made it's debut (finally!) on 9-SEP at a Jaguars of New England > "slalom"... it did pretty good too! The weather started off "iffy" with > heavy showers, but the showers dipersed and the "track" started drying and > the times started dropping. I wound up getting FTD, although about .5 of a > second off my normal times on the Jag "standard" national course. > > At any rate, it was good to get back in the saddle of "my old friend" > again. Now all I have to to do is fugoure out why the motor is smoking out > the tailpipe - a leakdown test is in order. > > I hope all the NET folks had fun eating lobstah "down east" on SAT. > > regards, > rml > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent > Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | > Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From henry at henryfrye.com Mon Sep 10 21:02:17 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:02:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Race Report - 1 of 2 Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FAA6@server.Triumph.local> Mother Nature was not smiling on us this past weekend, the weather was hot and humid, then the rains came. We got dry track sessions on Thursday (2), Friday (1), and one Saturday morning. The qualifying race Saturday afternoon was run in the wet, as was the feature Sunday morning. Dick Stockton was running real strong, had a great time running in the top 5 all weekend, but is not a fan of running in the rain. In the qualifying race he was gridded way up front, but was not too keen on being part of the turn one shenanigans that were bound to ensue. He threw up his arm as the green flag dropped and fell in around 15th, and drove around the track for the entire race tucked in behind one of the slower 356's. As the time for the feature race came upon us, the weather looked dismal with track conditions even wetter than the qualifying race so Dick and his gang took the advantage of the lull in the raindrops to load up his car. Smart move. Randy Williams ran strong in his TR3 once he got that overdrive working right, and did double duty running his E-Type in Group 6 as well as his TR in Group 3. Randy was flirting with the top 10 in the speed chart all weekend, and in the feature pulled off a podium finish with a third overall. Outstanding drive, Randy. Steven Groh made the show, and did us and all the Spit pilots out there proud. His Weberized Spit is beautiful and fast, SVRA made it a Group 3 car. Steve showed off his rain driving skills as well, and drove to a 5th overall in the feature! Steve, that is motoring in a Spit, my friend. Kudos. Bill Babcock had Peyote was looking fantastic as usual, embarrassing many cars he had no business running in front of. Unfortunately, some Corvette driver put him out of business for the rest of the All Aluminum Tour, but Bill is fine and Peyote isn't bent up all that bad. As Bill said, it was time for a new body anyway. If he grabs a couple street signs from every state along his journey home, he will be all set! Unfortunately, Bill Dentinger in the Thunderbolt succumbed to clutch woes in the middle of the first session. But he was smiling every time I moseyed by, and I am pretty sure that was not just because he was glad to see me... Bud Babcock's beautiful TR3 ran well all weekend, and Bud was having a good time as well. Bob Wismer was running his S2000 this weekend, so needless to say he got in, drove, finished, and didn't worry about the car all weekend. continued on the next post... From henry at henryfrye.com Mon Sep 10 21:04:04 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:04:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen race report - 2 of 2 Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FAA7@server.Triumph.local> Continued from first post... I chose to sit on the sidelines for the qualifying race, and was surprised to see so many cars take the track. I guess I was a little gun-shy remembering the last time I ran in conditions like this. But by the time the feature race came around, I was more determined to go have some fun, and drove the TR4 to the grid. Since I didn't run the qualifying race I was not on the grid sheet. I was asked what my lap time was. I told him I ran a 28.3 but I didn't run the qualifying race. He looks at his sheet and says I should be gridded 6th. I told him his sheet had the wet times from the qualifying race. I ask to see the sheet and tell where I should go. They still grid me higher than I deserve, and Randy and all the rest of the guys up there start giving me the business about how much beer I promised the guy. I don't think any of them bought my excuse that with the wet track they didn't want faster cars starting at the back. So we took the track and it was really slick, I let a by few of the guys I had no business being in front of. By the end of the race we almost had a dry line most of the way around the track. I had a great race with John Targett in his RHD red MGB hardtop. We traded positions a couple times, had some fun with an insanely fast Turner, and when the checker dropped I was in front of both John and the Turner, so life is good. I ended up with a 9th overall and second in class. I am pretty sure Group 3 had the only 'almost' decent track conditions all Sunday, as the next group left the grid the unrelenting rain came back, and it never really gave up. Friday afternoon the race cars go downtown to show off the cars and do a couple parade laps around the original race circuit. Bob Williams and his crew did the best job I ever participated in getting us downtown and parked with no overheating woes, and off and around the original street course with minimal fuss and jockeying. Helen told me before the event she had done the circuit enough times, and it was time to offer my passenger seat to someone else. As I sat having dinner Thursday night with my Western PA Triumph club friends, I brought up the subject. Bruce Stutzman immediately said I needed to offer the seat to Diane, Bill Babcock's wife. Seems that even with all of Bill's fantastic negotiating skills, he was unable to persuade SVRA that having her sit on the fuel cell in Peyote's passenger compartment was a good idea. So Diane and I blasted around the course waiving at all the fans. Speaking of the fans, I have never seen so many folks both downtown and along the road course. Watkins Glen was packed! Another fun weekend at Watkins Glen. Thanks to Jack W and the rest of the SVRA gang. BTW, the results are already up on mylaps.com From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Sep 11 00:00:12 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:00:12 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Just poking some fun! Message-ID: <571208BC-1672-4F31-9CF9-6023013B4E88@earthlink.net> Worked the late shift on my new Formula Vee tonight. Then the 45 mile drive from shop to home. Passed some old brit car broken down on the shoulder. Took a hundred yards to process that - A. It's a Triumph B. I've got tools C. I've got a shop full of parts less than 10 miles away D. I can probably help. As I'm backing-up the shoulder, I'm thinking A. Ignition problem? B. Charging problem? C. Wheel bearing? D. Wait a minute, I think I know this car! Sure enough, up walks our own Henry Morrison. As a relative newcomer to New Mexico [11yrs] and FoT [3mos.], I never knew that 10pm on a monday night is the proper time to test a TR3 sending unit. I could swear Henry was stealing one of my old hitch-hiking lines with "but it showed 1/4 tank!", but realized that he was serious... he believed 40+ year old Lucas. Now we both know - Yes, 10pm on a monday night IS the time to test such things. But NO, a 40+ year old gas gauge is not to be trusted. Hope you understand Henry, that I'm laughing with you and not at you, because we've all been there. Just glad I could help. On the other hand, maybe that's what one gets for driving a TR to a Healey club meeting. Greg From dos_gusanos at msn.com Tue Sep 11 08:08:22 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 08:08:22 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Just poking some fun! In-Reply-To: <571208BC-1672-4F31-9CF9-6023013B4E88@earthlink.net> References: <571208BC-1672-4F31-9CF9-6023013B4E88@earthlink.net> Message-ID: I'd only been in the drink about three minutes when Greg must have spotted my FOT sticker on the windshield and quickly whisked me away to the nearest petrol dump where I was able to add another red can to my collection. I'm sure Greg saved me from being de-nuded of my MG GOF driving cap and other priceless motoring accessories. Thanks again for the rescue......................Cheers Henry > To: fot at autox.team.net> From: lunkercars at earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:00:12 -0600> Subject: [Fot] Just poking some fun!> > Worked the late shift on my new Formula Vee tonight. Then the 45 mile > drive from shop to home. Passed some old brit car broken down on the > shoulder. Took a hundred yards to process that - A. It's a Triumph > B. I've got tools C. I've got a shop full of parts less than 10 > miles away D. I can probably help. As I'm backing-up the shoulder, > I'm thinking A. Ignition problem? B. Charging problem? C. Wheel > bearing? D. Wait a minute, I think I know this car! Sure enough, up > walks our own Henry Morrison. As a relative newcomer to New Mexico > [11yrs] and FoT [3mos.], I never knew that 10pm on a monday night is > the proper time to test a TR3 sending unit. I could swear Henry was > stealing one of my old hitch-hiking lines with "but it showed 1/4 > tank!", but realized that he was serious... he believed 40+ year old > Lucas. Now we both know - Yes, 10pm on a monday night IS the time to > test such things. But NO, a 40+ year old gas gauge is not to be trusted.> Hope you understand Henry, that I'm laughing with you and not at you, > because we've all been there. Just glad I could help. On the other > hand, maybe that's what one gets for driving a TR to a Healey club > meeting.> Greg > _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From sgroh1 at comcast.net Tue Sep 11 10:39:51 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (sgroh1 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:39:51 +0000 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over Message-ID: <091120071639.23422.46E6C4D70008537400005B7E2200748184CE08019D099C@comcast.net> I had the great pleasure to paddock next to Bill this last weekend with my Spit and all I can say is that if the offensive 'Vette driver had even 1/10th the amount of class Bill has, he'd have been over to Bill's paddock immediately with an apology. Bill is a true sportsman and gentleman, and it is a credit to our sport to have him in the field. I took home a ton of positive track experience from this weekend, but frankly I learned the most from Bill's attitude, humor and willingness to help anyone at any moment . Had it not been for Bill, I would have not turned a single lap all weekend. First he re-threaded a replacement oil fitting on an aeroquip line for me allowing me to make the field at all. Then he cheerfully proceeded to answer every one of my anxious questions over the 4 day event on tire temps, tire pressures, head gasket leaks and camber settings, lent me his tire temp guage, and, if that wasn't enough, he and his engineer Dave happily reinstalled the 20' awning on my brand new trailer that the wind ripped off while we at the Glen re-enactment (another event I would have missed, by the way, had it not been for Bill.) And if if that wasn't enough, he invites my girlfriend and I over for for a great chicken barbeque dinner Friday night! Thanks Bill, you are truly the class of the field whether on track or off. I'b be honored to paddock next to you anytime. The 'Vette driver could certainly learn a ton from you. Steve Groh SVRA 393 '63 Spitfire -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Bill Babcock" > I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. Stupid beyond > belief--he whacked me in the back left corner trying to re-pass me in an turn > nine, and then tried to blame the wreck on me. I wound up pivoting on his > bumper, being shoved sideways down the track with a big ass 57' Corvette > rubbing my elbow and finally got shoved against the tire wall, which bent the > suspension mounts on the right front corner. He could of killed me, he did > indeed wreck the heck out of Peyote, and didn't have the integrity to even say > "sorry your car got wrecked" or "glad you didn't get hurt". > > Weasel. > > I've been on the guilty side of an incident like this once, and though it was > a lot less clearcut than this one (I hit a guy in the middle of his car when I > couldn't brake in time as he cut across a chicane),I stepped up and > apologized. Even paid for the guy's damage though I think it's wrong to do > that--we all assume the risk of damage or injury when we choose to race. I'll > fix my own car. > > The stewards didn't "decide" on their action, which I take to mean they wanted > everyone cleared out before they decide to do nothing. They were already > making noises about "mitigating aspects" when I talked to them, despite clear > evidence like a big punt mark in the back of my car, a video from Karon's > Devin, and lots of people that saw the incident. I know the corner worker on > the scene must have been looking the wrong way--he asked me what happened. > > If I did such a bonehead thing I'd expect to get suspended, but the guy has > run with SVRA for years and I'm just a guy from Oregon that they may never see > again. They're the ones that will have to race with the weenie, I certainly > wouldn't set a wheel on a track with him again. > > Anyway, the racing part of the tour is over. I'm making my way back across the > country to lick my wounds in Portland. we'll do a little sightseeing on the > way back and stop in Geneseo to pick up my motor from Uncle Jack. > > I will, of course, fix Peyote. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chasgee at aol.com Tue Sep 11 10:41:42 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:41:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just poking some fun! In-Reply-To: References: <571208BC-1672-4F31-9CF9-6023013B4E88@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8C9C2A9C4452104-1C0-293B@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> de-nuded.....what a great word. -----Original Message----- From: dos_gusanos at msn.com To: ""Greg Lunker Hilyer ; Sent: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 7:08 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Just poking some fun! I'd only been in the drink about three minutes when Greg must have spotted my FOT sticker on the windshield and quickly whisked me away to the nearest petrol dump where I was able to add another red can to my collection. I'm sure Greg saved me from being de-nuded of my MG GOF driving cap and other priceless motoring accessories. Thanks again for the rescue......................Cheers Henry > To: fot at autox.team.net> From: lunkercars at earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:00:12 -0600> Subject: [Fot] Just poking some fun!> > Worked the late shift on my new Formula Vee tonight. Then the 45 mile > drive from shop to home. Passed some old brit car broken down on the > shoulder. Took a hundred yards to process that - A. It's a Triumph > B. I've got tools C. I've got a shop full of parts less than 10 > miles away D. I can probably help. As I'm backing-up the shoulder, > I'm thinking A. Ignition problem? B. Charging problem? C. Wheel > bearing? D. Wait a minute, I think I know this car! Sure enough, up > walks our own Henry Morrison. As a relative newcomer to New Mexico > [11yrs] and FoT [3mos.], I never knew that 10pm on a monday night is > the proper time to test a TR3 sending unit. I could swear Henry was > stealing one of my old hitch-hiking lines with "but it showed 1/4 > tank!", but realized that he was serious... he believed 40+ year old > Lucas. Now we both know - Yes, 10pm on a monday night IS the time to > test such things. But NO, a 40+ year old gas gauge is not to be trusted.> Hope you understand Henry, that I'm laughing with you and not at you, > because we've all been there. Just glad I could help. On the other > hand, maybe that's what one gets for driving a TR to a Healey club > meeting.> Greg > _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From Labs0808 at aol.com Tue Sep 11 12:56:41 2007 From: Labs0808 at aol.com (Labs0808 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:56:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over Message-ID: Before we start to build a bronze shrine to Bill let us not forget that he is a aggressive driver who I believe made a clean but not completely thought out partial pass. I did have a birds eye view as I was gaining on the duo in the heat of battle. They way I saw it was that Move to the outside was risky at best especially against a driver that he spent little race time with, and often has had a known behavior or aggressive (sometimes wild driving manners) it was only qualifying session not a race, and as far as I can remember nobody is getting paid to stand on the podium. If we forget why we are there in the spirit of enjoying are friends are cars some good fun then we all lose, this last weekend in front of me I viewed the spin of a Lister as I dodged it on the grass as it slide down the track right at me, and the crash of two cars both situations I was close enough to have viewed and filmed. I told the boys that both were at fault in the crash but mostly the Corvette in my opinion was driving over his head in a car that not under control. I also heard later that the corner workers back that side of it up. Bill: Carl was looking for you at the dinner Saturday night to tell you his conclusions I enjoyed having the chance to visit and race with my step brother (peyote ) and meet you, best of luck putting the car back together again LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING IT OUT THERE AGAIN DOUG KARON ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Tue Sep 11 13:46:34 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:46:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Lime Rock and Watkins Glen photos In-Reply-To: <091120071639.23422.46E6C4D70008537400005B7E2200748184CE08019D099C@comcast.net> References: <091120071639.23422.46E6C4D70008537400005B7E2200748184CE08019D099C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <004701c7f4ac$773bd2b0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> I have posted a ton of photos of the Lime Rock and Watkins Glen events the last 2 weekends. Not many of Triumphs, but there are some lurking. Henry Frye makes a guest appearance... I was crewing for #928 MG-TD. We bailed out Sunday when the fog invaded even the near-empty garage! Great to see Ted Schumacher again, as always! I even caught him downtown with my camera! http://picasaweb.google.com/Milo066 Enjoy... Clark From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 11 13:55:31 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:55:31 EDT Subject: [Fot] Fwd: All Alluminum Tour is Over Message-ID: ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com Return-path: From: BillDentin at aol.com Full-name: BillDentin Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:54:13 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over To: Labs0808 at aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10721 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain In a message dated 09/11/2007 1:57:12 PM Central Daylight Time, Labs0808 at aol.com writes: > Before we start to build a bronze shrine to Bill let us not forget that he > > is a aggressive driver who I believe made a clean but not completely > thought > out partial pass. I did have a birds eye view as I was gaining on the duo > in > the heat of battle. > They way I saw it was that Move to the outside was risky at best > especially against a driver that he spent little race time with, and often > has had a > Doug... I suppose had you said, "GOLD or SILVER" I'd have found your opening line more palatable, but I'd actually support a BRONZE shrine for Babcock. I've raced with him twice this year at ROAD AMERICA, and also at BRAINERD, GRATTAN and WATKINS GLEN. I have no argument with your choice of the word 'aggressive' when describing his driving style, but without adding the words 'very capable' your sentence can be misleading to others. Bill Babcock is a very capable, and yes aggressive driver, or he would not end up in the front of the pack, chasing and holding off far more hairy chested machinery. I didn't have your front row seat behind the incident, so I should have no opinion as to what happened in the incident, nor where fault lies. The Thunder Bolt had a frozen clutch, so I watched that Qualifying Race (my Race Group) with Henry Frye at the fence between ONE and TWO. Clearly there was a gaggle of cars up front (including Babcock) who were going at it tooth and nail. Race Group FOUR was very impressive, and full of aggressive driving. But when I read Bill's text on the incident, he seemed far more concerned about the other driver's post race attitude and lack of remorse for his part in the incident. Each driver has responsibility for a safe pass, but the majority of that responsibility lies with the overtaking driver. In this case that's the Corvette, and the way I understand it, the Corvette hit the Peyote. If that's so, he ought to come back to the paddock willing to accept his portion of the guilt. Bronze Shrine! Are you aware of the Granite Shrine I built at ROAD AMERICA for my racing partner, Bob Wismer? It's the real deal. It weighs over 4,000 pounds. Of course, he never hit anybody and is not particularly aggressive. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From sgroh1 at comcast.net Tue Sep 11 16:15:59 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (Steven Groh) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:15:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over References: Message-ID: <002c01c7f4c1$59d930e0$6401a8c0@steven2sbouwlk> Doug, If you are responding to my earlier post by your use of the term "bronze shrine:" The construction of the shrine has absolutely nothing to do with your opinion that Bill is an aggressive driver. I happen value his character, which was demonstrated off-track all weekend. As far as your bird's eye view, if Peyote was hit in the extreme rear quarter panel, wouldn't you assume that Peyote had the corner? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over > Before we start to build a bronze shrine to Bill let us not forget that > he > is a aggressive driver who I believe made a clean but not completely > thought > out partial pass. I did have a birds eye view as I was gaining on the duo > in > the heat of battle. > They way I saw it was that Move to the outside was risky at best > especially against a driver that he spent little race time with, and > often has had a > known behavior or aggressive (sometimes wild driving manners) it was only > qualifying session not a race, and as far as I can remember nobody is > getting > paid to stand on the podium. > If we forget why we are there in the spirit of enjoying are friends are > cars some good fun then we all lose, this last weekend in front of me I > viewed > the spin of a Lister as I dodged it on the grass as it slide down the > track > right at me, and the crash of two cars both situations I was close enough > to > have viewed and filmed. > I told the boys that both were at fault in the crash but mostly the > Corvette in my opinion was driving over his head in a car that not under > control. I > also heard later that the corner workers back that side of it up. > Bill: Carl was looking for you at the dinner Saturday night to tell > you > his conclusions I enjoyed having the chance to visit and race with my > step > brother (peyote ) and meet you, best of luck putting the car back > together > again > LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING IT OUT THERE AGAIN > DOUG KARON > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Tue Sep 11 16:40:18 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:40:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? Message-ID: <20070911225332.KZHC9139.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> http://www.twitchguru.com/site/flash_videos/beer_cooling_comparison_international_edition.html I wonder if a car radiator would see a performance difference like that seen in the cooling capacity of beer and a computer CPU (at rest and under load). I would think that the you would certainly need to make sure to get the foam out of the beer or at least let it go flat before pouring into the radiator. Gunsness did not cool as well as Coors which in turn did not do as well as the German beer (some unpronounceable brand) they used but neither of them cooled as well as Molson. Interesting. Anyone going to try it in their car? HeHe... From tlizzard at msn.com Tue Sep 11 17:12:24 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 19:12:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? References: <20070911225332.KZHC9139.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: Well, alcohol was the "anti-freeze" of choice before glycol solutions came along. I fear beer would be a tad corrosive, owing to it's sugar content. I think beer is best left as a biological unit coolant. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: David W. Riddle To: wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com ; members at dctra.org ; fot at autox.team.net ; f500 at f500.org Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:40 PM Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? http://www.twitchguru.com/site/flash_videos/beer_cooling_comparison_interna tional_edition.html I wonder if a car radiator would see a performance difference like that seen in the cooling capacity of beer and a computer CPU (at rest and under load). I would think that the you would certainly need to make sure to get the foam out of the beer or at least let it go flat before pouring into the radiator. Gunsness did not cool as well as Coors which in turn did not do as well as the German beer (some unpronounceable brand) they used but neither of them cooled as well as Molson. Interesting. Anyone going to try it in their car? HeHe... _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Emoticon3.gif] From norlinengineering at comcast.net Tue Sep 11 17:55:21 2007 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:55:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005c01c7f4cf$375b81e0$020ba8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP> However, beer does make a great fire extinguisher. Used to carry a six pack in the old van just in case of emergencies. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Terry Stetler Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 4:12 PM To: wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com; members at dctra.org; fot at autox.team.net; f500 at f500.org; David W. Riddle Subject: Re: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? Well, alcohol was the "anti-freeze" of choice before glycol solutions came along. I fear beer would be a tad corrosive, owing to it's sugar content. I think beer is best left as a biological unit coolant. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: David W. Riddle To: wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com ; members at dctra.org ; fot at autox.team.net ; f500 at f500.org Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:40 PM Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? http://www.twitchguru.com/site/flash_videos/beer_cooling_comparison_interna tional_edition.html I wonder if a car radiator would see a performance difference like that seen in the cooling capacity of beer and a computer CPU (at rest and under load). I would think that the you would certainly need to make sure to get the foam out of the beer or at least let it go flat before pouring into the radiator. Gunsness did not cool as well as Coors which in turn did not do as well as the German beer (some unpronounceable brand) they used but neither of them cooled as well as Molson. Interesting. Anyone going to try it in their car? HeHe... _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Emoticon3.gif] _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html norlinengineering at comcast.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Tue Sep 11 20:40:10 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:40:10 -0600 Subject: [Fot] T shirts and coat of arms stickers Message-ID: <000001c7f4e6$3d429e60$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Does anyone know where I can get T shirts and coat of arms stickers. I think Ted is out of t shirts. Thanks Jim G From WEmery7451 at aol.com Tue Sep 11 20:40:43 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 22:40:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over Message-ID: In a message dated 9/9/07 4:54:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: <> Racing has certainly changed down through the decades. It use to be for the SPORT, and the overtaking car was responsible for safely passing the person being overtaken, even if he had to slow down. Now it appears that the faster cars have an open season to fly along as fast as they can under any condition, and when they hit someone, it is the other guy's fault -- the one who got hit. "He cut me off!" "He didn't give me racing room!" On and on. Sometimes, it appears that the safety stewards and race officials want to see more shrapnel fly to put on a better show for the audience. Someone gave me a tape of the E-Production race at the Runoffs last year. Before the end of the race, it appeared that about half of the cars were smashed up and off the track. In this area, the Sports Racer Ford drivers own the tracks, and anyone else out there with them are second class citizens. About 90% of all of the whining and bitching at any event seems to come from these SRF drivers. We just got back from spending a week in Portland. I had seen a show on the History Channel about Portland Underground, which was very interesting. The tour that we got on was somewhat disappointing. Most of the tunnels had been blocked off due to crooks using them to enter and rob buildings. This coming weekend, I will be driving from Pittsburgh to Williamsport, PA to help my boy with his TR-7. He will try to race it at Watkins Glen this weekend. I hope that he has better luck than he did the last time he was at Watkins Glen. He got knocked off of the track in his RX-7 Mazda, and went spinning down over the hill hitting a guard rail. His Mazda was trashed out of existence.


**************************************
See what's new at http://www.aol.com From fpspitfire at insightbb.com Tue Sep 11 20:57:40 2007 From: fpspitfire at insightbb.com (fpspitfire at insightbb.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:57:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] SCCA RunOffs Oct 7-14 Heartland Park Topeka, Message-ID: For those of you who are interested: The annual SCCA Run-Offs National Championship race is October 8th thru 14th at Heartland Park Topeka. The H-Production Race is Friday sometime (I can't remember exactly). http://www.scca.org for details. Since I have no crew, I have crew slots open if anyone in the area wants to come help out or just wants to come check out the action. Sponsorship is always welcome...the car is looking pretty clean with no decals on it. :) I plan on arriving the 7th and setting up camp for the week, but I plan on leaving friday after the race. I have the motor issues that popped up at Pocono fixed and the gearbox is sorted out. Plus Hoosier sent a pair of the new compound tires for me try courtesy of my win at St. Louis. Aaron Johnson #8 HP Spitfire 1500 Southern Illinois Region From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 11 21:20:12 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:20:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over References: Message-ID: Guilty as charged, sort of. The pass was complete, but it was pointless, there wasn't any way I could have held the position once we hit the chute coming out of the boot. But it wasn't really that aggressive a move, I had been following the guy for five laps, I got to watch in great detail how he went through the corners since I didn't have anything else to do. It was a pretty slow dance. It also wasn't really an outside pass--I got by him in the straight section before the turn in for the next corner when he went wide at the end of that carousel-like turn. The only reason it looked like an outside pass on the next corner is that he didn't let up when I started to turn in. I was already turning when he hit me, and he hit me on the rear corner. Not a nudge, like it would have been if I had cut him off, but a hard hit that smashed my subframe in. No way that could happen unless I was well in front of him. In other words, pass complete. I also had no idea the guy was a flake, except for the wild way he was cornering sometimes. A number of people came by afterwards and told me he has a rep for wild driving. One of the risks of doing this trip is that I DON'T know the people I'm driving with. I have to trust that they'll be rational. If I'd known he was that wild, I might not have have passed him. Of course if the club thinks he's that wild he should probably have someone talking to him. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "I told the boys they both were at fault in the crash" Do you mean you told me? You didn't, in fact you said exactly the opposite and said you had it all on video. I do like the idea of a bronze monument though. Could it be close to Wismer's? It would be nice to have an alternate place to let Sam leave his little olfactory messages. Incidentally, I'd love a copy of the video. It would be fun to see it. Any idea what Carl decided to do? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Labs0808 at aol.com Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 11:56 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over Before we start to build a bronze shrine to Bill let us not forget that he is a aggressive driver who I believe made a clean but not completely thought out partial pass. I did have a birds eye view as I was gaining on the duo in the heat of battle. They way I saw it was that Move to the outside was risky at best especially against a driver that he spent little race time with, and often has had a known behavior or aggressive (sometimes wild driving manners) it was only qualifying session not a race, and as far as I can remember nobody is getting paid to stand on the podium. If we forget why we are there in the spirit of enjoying are friends are cars some good fun then we all lose, this last weekend in front of me I viewed the spin of a Lister as I dodged it on the grass as it slide down the track right at me, and the crash of two cars both situations I was close enough to have viewed and filmed. I told the boys that both were at fault in the crash but mostly the Corvette in my opinion was driving over his head in a car that not under control. I also heard later that the corner workers back that side of it up. Bill: Carl was looking for you at the dinner Saturday night to tell you his conclusions I enjoyed having the chance to visit and race with my step brother (peyote ) and meet you, best of luck putting the car back together again LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING IT OUT THERE AGAIN DOUG KARON ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From WEmery7451 at aol.com Wed Sep 12 11:29:42 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:29:42 EDT Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? Message-ID: In a message dated 9/11/07 4:55:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, norlinengineering at comcast.net writes: << I wonder if a car radiator would see a performance difference like that s een in the cooling capacity of beer and a computer CPU (at rest and under lo ad). >> The suger would probably plate inside all of the cooling passages, and cause overheating. It might be similar to antifreeze in the gastank, or an antifreeze leak into the engine. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Wed Sep 12 12:34:48 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:34:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hawk Blue pads for early Spitfire? Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715756@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> I'm looking for a set of Hawk Blue pads for my early Spitfire, but can't turn up an application number for them. Hawk's site and the distributor sites I've searched don't list Triumph applications or pads for Girling calipers. Must be time to switch to some fancy aftermarket calipers... Anybody have an idea of the Hawk Blue part number for the early Spit (Mk 2) caliper? Scott B. From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 12 13:05:06 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:05:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FT Nomination Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A8246FC@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> I would like to get Bobby Whitehead onto the FoT list. He took his drivers school this past weekend at a CVAR event here in Texas. Bobby has a beautiful Primrose yellow GT6 that came out of Florida and the car was extremely well prepared. When I took my drivers school in 1996 Bobby was there too, in a street TR6 (CVAR used to allow that). I hadn't seen him since so it is obvious that he has persevered and has finally come over to the racing Triumph side. Bobby would like to get in contact with the other GT6 characters out there for some transmission advice. CVAR didn't like the Toyota conversion. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 12 13:09:29 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:09:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] spitfire racer Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A824719@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> While I'm nominating folks I would also like to get Don Couch from my local Triumph club onto the FoT list. He has put together a very nice street/autocross Spitfire and has the bug. At our club meeting last night Don told me he has decided to step up from autocrossing into road racing and he has a 1979 Spitfire to convert into a racer. Our TX club stops at 1972 SCCA rules but I think that he can build it to the 1972 spec pretty easily. Don would love some help from the Spit contingent. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 From Fubog1 at aol.com Wed Sep 12 13:20:15 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:20:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] FT Nomination Message-ID: In a message dated 9/12/2007 3:05:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RKramer at rdoequipment.com writes: I would like to get Bobby Whitehead onto the FoT list. He took his drivers school this past weekend at a CVAR event here in Texas. Bobby has a beautiful Primrose yellow GT6 that came out of Florida and the car was extremely well prepared. Heck I'll second that! That car is the "reincarnation" of Mike Perrys old car from down here in south Fla. Bob Davis did a fantastic job on building the new car & I already heard through the "grapevine" that Bobby the new owner did a real fine job this past weekend. Safety FasTR Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 12 13:20:29 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:20:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Excessive oil temps Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A82474A@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> While I'm at it I might as well ask opinions from the list of my latest malady. This past weekend, when I wasn't spinning in my own oil (home made Accusump line shooting oil at the LF tire), I was suffering through a couple of problems that I think are related to oil cooling. I struggled with hot engine restarts all weekend and since it was 95 degrees with at least that much humidity, that meant every time after the first start-up in the morning. What happened first was the HS6 pistons and float jets were sticky. I replaced the jets with Grose jets and it got better but I noticed how hot the bowls were and that the pistons would bounce up and down and then stick down. During the Sunday mid day session I had to come off the track with excessive oil temps and a resulting drop in oil pressure. The water temp was 180 thanks to the aluminum radiator. I surmise that I failed to bleed out the air in the system on my fresh rebuild and the water wasn't circulating properly around the block. Does this sound reasonable? With the weather we were having and a late schedule I packed in in early and I haven't done work on it yet. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 From klynch_6 at msn.com Wed Sep 12 14:03:34 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:03:34 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Hawk Blue pads for early Spitfire? References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715756@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: Scott, the GT6 uses the #HB169E . 560 I had to do a little modification. Hope that's a starting point for you. Not sure how big a diff is between the Spits & 6's. ? Kev Lynch ----- Original Message ----- From: Barr, Scott To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 12:34 PM Subject: [Fot] Hawk Blue pads for early Spitfire? I'm looking for a set of Hawk Blue pads for my early Spitfire, but can't turn up an application number for them. Hawk's site and the distributor sites I've searched don't list Triumph applications or pads for Girling calipers. Must be time to switch to some fancy aftermarket calipers... Anybody have an idea of the Hawk Blue part number for the early Spit (Mk 2) caliper? Scott B. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From adcronin at ameritech.net Wed Sep 12 14:20:48 2007 From: adcronin at ameritech.net (A Daniel Cronin) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Brake Pads for Toyota 4-Pot Conversions Message-ID: <142215.31852.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Will be using the Toyota Calipers along with the TR6 front suspension components on my revamped TR2 and am wondering what brake pads those of you who have done this conversion would recommend (other than the stock Toyota pads for the 79 to 84 four wheel drive pickup) unless they are adequate. Car will not be a "race" car but will from time to time autocross and rally. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Dan Planning & Development Services A. Daniel Cronin 248 761-2673 From John.Reed at wilson.com Wed Sep 12 14:42:45 2007 From: John.Reed at wilson.com (John.Reed at wilson.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:42:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FT Nomination In-Reply-To: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A8246FC@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Message-ID: Great to have another GT6 racer. Second. Regards, John Reed Staff Photographer Wilson Sporting Goods Co. 8750 W Bryn Mawr Ave, Chicago, Illinois 60631, USA Tel. + 1.773.714.6895, fax +1.773.714.4585 John.Reed at wilson.com www.wilson.com www.amersports.com Please note that effective immediately, my e-mail , phone number and street address have changed. Please update your files accordingly. "Kramer, Robert" Sent by: fot-bounces+jreed=wilson.com at autox.team.net 09/12/07 12:05 PM To cc igofaster at charter.net Subject [Fot] FT Nomination I would like to get Bobby Whitehead onto the FoT list. He took his drivers school this past weekend at a CVAR event here in Texas. Bobby has a beautiful Primrose yellow GT6 that came out of Florida and the car was extremely well prepared. When I took my drivers school in 1996 Bobby was there too, in a street TR6 (CVAR used to allow that). I hadn't seen him since so it is obvious that he has persevered and has finally come over to the racing Triumph side. Bobby would like to get in contact with the other GT6 characters out there for some transmission advice. CVAR didn't like the Toyota conversion. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 jreed at wilson.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. From norlinengineering at comcast.net Wed Sep 12 14:52:40 2007 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:52:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hawk Blue pads for early Spitfire? In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715756@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <001801c7f57e$dc9dec10$020ba8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP> In looking through the Porterfield catalog, http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/ they list the Hawk Blue pad for the late Spitfire as an HB 118. This is for the 14 LF caliper. They do not list a Hawk pad for the earlier 12 SP caliper. They do however list their own pads for the early Spit caliper in their R-4 full race compound as a part no. GD 528. They also show rear shoes in this same compound. Anyone have experience with the Porterfield R-4 pads and shoes on a Spitfire? Jim Norlin -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Barr, Scott Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:35 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Hawk Blue pads for early Spitfire? I'm looking for a set of Hawk Blue pads for my early Spitfire, but can't turn up an application number for them. Hawk's site and the distributor sites I've searched don't list Triumph applications or pads for Girling calipers. Must be time to switch to some fancy aftermarket calipers... Anybody have an idea of the Hawk Blue part number for the early Spit (Mk 2) caliper? Scott B. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jhassall at blacksburg.net Wed Sep 12 17:02:11 2007 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:02:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Looking for used SU needles Message-ID: <46E86FF3.6040707@blacksburg.net> Amci, A friend of mine is trying to fine-tune a set of HS6 SUs he has adapted to his hot TR6. He's looking for a used set of SU needles (pls see his note below). Pls respond directly to osternd at copper.net, not me (let's eliminate (figuratively speaking) the middle man). Looking for SU Needles I'm trying to do an SU HS6 conversion on my '76 TR6 and am in need of some needles for modification. Wonder if anyone might have a set of used ones that they would like to part with. Surface condition is not too critical as they will be shaved down, but do need to be straight. They also need to be the spring loaded type, 0.100". I modified a set of BDB needles but went a tad too far and am running a bit richer than I would like. For some reason, it seems to be easier to go richer than leaner! The profile ended up being similar to a BCM needle, though richer. So, anything leaner than BCM or similar should work. -- J.C. Hassall Blacksburg VA 64 TR4 in autox preparation 95% finished, 90% to go From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 12 17:22:28 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:22:28 EDT Subject: [Fot] Looking for used SU needles Message-ID: The latest Kastner book shows how to make modifications to the needles and make them identical to each other. It is simple materials and comprehensive instructions. Use with Dremel. I recommend that he buy Kas' Book. Joe A From trbilbo at aol.com Wed Sep 12 19:38:46 2007 From: trbilbo at aol.com (trbilbo at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:38:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Looking for used SU needles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9C3BDF60BF509-750-BE84@mblk-r36.sysops.aol.com> I acquired a huge (hundred and hundreds) old stock of needles and will be unpacking them in the next couple of months. ANYone interested in numbers or ALL let me know as I will not be keeping this. Most are sorted. Some are not. Coming in a storage container but I did wrap carefully so fingers crossed. Let me know wants now and I will keep you on a list and repost when I uncover them shortly. Thanks all. Billy B. (Burroughs) #195 65 TR4A IRS ALSO... have a fellow with a 72 GT6 complete but disassembled in El Segundo (near LAX) Frame stripped painted as are most parts. Car is complete and titled but needs assembly Price is FREE. He doesn't want it to go to the crusher. Contact me here or cal me direct at 310-871-2491 my cell for his number -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: jhassall at blacksburg.net; fot at autox.team.net; osternd at copper.net Sent: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 4:22 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Looking for used SU needles The latest Kastner book shows how to make modifications to the needles and make them identical to each other. It is simple materials and comprehensive instructions. Use with Dremel. I recommend that he buy Kas' Book. Joe A trbilbo at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From jwags at dotnet.com Wed Sep 12 21:13:41 2007 From: jwags at dotnet.com (jwags at dotnet.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:13:41 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: [Fot] Single wire alternator Message-ID: <46E8AAE5.000001.05828@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> I don't often have things to say, but last night while getting the purple(74) TR3 ready for Road America I turned the kill switch off with the engine running and to my surprise Everything kept running,engine,fuel pump,fan, O my! Even the brake lights worked. With a little time on the web I fond that a single wire alternator needs to be hook to The battery side of the kill switch, and not the starter. A little longer and larger wire Did the trick. We had been running like that for years. Tech always checks the switch with the engine Off. So if any one in FOT land thinks they might be in the same boat starter up and Turn off the kill switch. Just the wrench John Wagner From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Thu Sep 13 06:58:18 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:58:18 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Well, maybe I'm getting just a little too itchy to get one of the Spitfires back on track before the snow flies, but here's the question. Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us some laps? #49Blue's all ready to go, except for the broken axle. #48White will require a lot more work after sitting for 14 years, but has some hell-for-stout looking rear axles under it. Scott B. From herald948 at aol.com Thu Sep 13 07:59:44 2007 From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:59:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <8C9C42578E164BC-4F0-B52@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us some laps? ==AM== I don't think you'd need to switch springs, but there are differences in radius rods and/or mounts to the body (not sure which) and in brake hydraulic hoses. Also, if the car with the shorter "donor" axles is old enough, it might have the smaller flanges to the differential? Otherwise, it's only a 2" total difference in track width. Maybe that's a lot, but possibly a bit of creativity with wheels and/or wheel spacers could compensate? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Thu Sep 13 08:01:29 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:01:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C744DE8A3@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Wow, I didn't know the track difference was 2 inches. That seems like a lot. Certainly a lot to make up with wheel spacers... ----- Original Message ----- From: herald948 at aol.com To: Barr, Scott; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thu Sep 13 08:59:44 2007 Subject: Re: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us some laps? ==AM== I don't think you'd need to switch springs, but there are differences in radius rods and/or mounts to the body (not sure which) and in brake hydraulic hoses. Also, if the car with the shorter "donor" axles is old enough, it might have the smaller flanges to the differential? Otherwise, it's only a 2" total difference in track width. Maybe that's a lot, but possibly a bit of creativity with wheels and/or wheel spacers could compensate? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 13 08:32:51 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:32:51 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <002701c7f612$f726ae20$2d02a8c0@Belkin> The spring really has nothing to do with the axle length. The springs are the same length through the entire series of Spits. The axle length only has to do with the amount of negative camber is created. You should replace the spring only if you want to do away with a lot of body roll (which is the effect created by the swing-spring rocker box). The early MkIV's had the swing spring and shorter axles and Apparently Triumph felt that was not doing what they intended when they introduced the swing-spring. Then they went to the longer axles. I have long suspected that if they had stayed with a fixed spring and just increased axle length, they would have fixed the wheel tuck problem by increasing spring rate. The exagerated negative camber goes a long way toward preventing the dreaded wheel tuck in a hard turn. You might find that the best performance will be from a fixed spring (with the necessary tuning of front and rear suspension) and the long axles. I have a camber compensator kit that I developed for fixed spring, long axle cars just in case it is needed. Joe C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barr, Scott" To: Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:58 AM Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? > Well, maybe I'm getting just a little too itchy to get one of the > Spitfires back on track before the snow flies, but here's the question. > > Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work > on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? > > The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us > some laps? > > #49Blue's all ready to go, except for the broken axle. #48White will > require a lot more work after sitting for 14 years, but has some > hell-for-stout looking rear axles under it. > > Scott B. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From twakeman at razzolink.com Thu Sep 13 08:35:48 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:35:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Message-ID: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> Earlier this year I gave up on my Lucas distributor and converted to a Mallory dual point system. I've been much happier with the distributor curve. However it goes through condensers like popcorn at the movies. Some go bad in as little as 1000 miles. This is the first time I ever had condensers go bad on me. I'm puzzled by the cause and any suggestions would be welcome. Vehicle Triumph TR3A. Coil Lucas Sport coil Newer battery with freshly cleaned terminals. Battery wiring stock. Electrical wiring stock except for alternator conversion and electric fan. I've never had a condenser go bad with a Lucas distributor in the same environment. Voltmeter shows no resistance ground between point ground plate and distributor body. Are Mallory condensers unusually fragile? Is there a common substitute I can use that is a bit more robust? Is there something I'm overlooking? Right now I'm afraid to go out to dinner or to the grocery store without a spare condenser and tools in the boot. TeriAnn From herald948 at aol.com Thu Sep 13 09:06:42 2007 From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:06:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C744DE8A3@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C744DE8A3@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <8C9C42ED42D7519-4F0-FCC@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott Wow, I didn't know the track difference was 2 inches. That seems like a lot. Certainly a lot to make up with wheel spacers... ==AM== Just guessing, but maybe the right wheel offset could help compensate for that? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Sep 13 09:14:44 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> Message-ID: Hi, I'm running the Mallory dual point on both my TR6's. On the street car, I had the exact (or similar) behavior where condensors go bad in an unpredictable manner. On the race car, I had problems when I first put the car together, but I did play with the wiring and more than once wound up wiring the ignition wrong which led to no start conditions and head scratching. I use a slightly different coil setup for either car, though. On the race car, I use an MSD blaster coil which has no internal resistance, so I installed an MSD ballast resistor. That setup seems to "eat" less condensors than when I first installed the Mallory dizzy. But if the car is raced on a very hot day, there is some likelyhood that the condensor will fail or start to get flakey. On the street car, I just carried a couple of spares condensors. I tried all sorts of combos in that car. I started with a Crane PS20 (I think) coil (it was already there from when I ran the Crane X700 ignition box). I switched to the MSD Blaster (TR6 has a built-in ballast resistor) - still got failures in what seemed like random fashion. I even bought a Mallory coil - that _should_ work, right? I eventually gave up on the points in the street car and bought a Pertronix Ignitor this year. Owing to the reported "reliability" of the Pertronix, I elected to carry a spare unit in the boot (along with the Mallory dual-point setup - both are ready to drop in at a moments notice. So far I've gone about 2k miles with the Pertronix with no probs - knock wood. For the street car, I was sure that the problem was related to the use of an electric tach because if I left the tach disconnected the points seemed last thousands instead of hundreds of miles. However, while I've been writing this response I thought of another possibility that might come into play. On TR6, when you turn the ignition key and engage the starter, a wire on the starter bypasses the ballast resistor to give 12 vdc to the coil. I wonder if the extra voltage through the coil (the MSD and Crane both have ZERO internal resistance) is a prob for the condensor. Here's something to try - if TR3 bypasses the ballast to the coil (I have no idea how the TR3 is wired) when you start the car, try keeping that wire off the coil and see if the condensors last any longer. On TR6, there's a white wire with black trace that is the 12 feed to the dizzy. On the stock wiring harness, the push on connector is shared with the ballasted wire from the ignition switch, so rather than hack that, you could just leave the other end off the starter (but use a tie wrap to keep it from hitting the exhaust header) and see if that works. The only other thing that I can think of is heat-related internal failure of the condensors, but that's a stretch, at best. As a point of information, I asked the exact same question that you ask about 2 or 3 years ago on this list and at least one other Triumph list. The feedback that I got was inconclusive but practically nobody said "oh ya, I had that problem". I found the lack of similar experience to be frustrating at the time. But if TR3 has a 12 volt feed while you're cranking the engine, try bypassing it so the coil always gets 6 volts and see if the condensors last any longer. FWIW, Summit Racing sells the Mallory condensors (#400) for about $8. They've gone up about $3 in the last 3 years, but I've never had to backorder and I get three or four at a time to spread the shipping costs out. Let us know if the suggstions work. Regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Sep 13 09:23:43 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:23:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> Message-ID: Hi, Sorry for the long posting, but I forgot one thing. When I asked this question before, I got a few responses that said "check the ground". The strap around the condensor has a plating on it (cadmium, I think) and I typically use some fine sandpaper on the surface that mates to the dizzy body to assure a good ground. But if you have a digital multimeter, check the resistance from the condensor body to the battery ground. It should be 0.00. 1 or two ohms is probably okay, but any more than that and you've got a bad ground connection somewhere that needs to be addressed. Regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From S.Janzen at comcast.net Thu Sep 13 09:34:19 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:34:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> Message-ID: <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> I just fitted a Mallory to my GT6 and have been having intermittent ignition problems, mostly a misfire at high speed. What are the symptoms you are experiencing with condenser failure? Several people have mentioned Robert's last comment - including Century, a big Mallory seller - which is that the condenser should be sanded to remove a coating on it which apparently inhibits grounding. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Lang" To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Cc: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems > Hi, > > Sorry for the long posting, but I forgot one thing. When I asked this > question before, I got a few responses that said "check the ground". The > strap around the condensor has a plating on it (cadmium, I think) and I > typically use some fine sandpaper on the surface that mates to the dizzy > body to assure a good ground. But if you have a digital multimeter, check > the resistance from the condensor body to the battery ground. It should be > 0.00. 1 or two ohms is probably okay, but any more than that and you've > got a bad ground connection somewhere that needs to be addressed. > > Regards, > rml > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent > Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | > Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Sep 13 10:01:22 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Sep 2007, Scott Janzen wrote: > I just fitted a Mallory to my GT6 and have been having intermittent ignition > problems, mostly a misfire at high speed. What are the symptoms you are > experiencing with condenser failure? Several people have mentioned Robert's > last comment - including Century, a big Mallory seller - which is that the > condenser should be sanded to remove a coating on it which apparently > inhibits grounding. The condensor failing will show in one of two ways - intermittent poor spark where the car will misfire once or twice under load but the "recover" and total failure. With total failure you get a very weak spark (yellow with a test plug) and in my case the car won't even start (although it might "cough" when trying to start it. If you replace the condensor with a known good one, the car will start up and the misfire is GONE. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Thu Sep 13 10:35:22 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:35:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Message-ID: I put a Mallory Distributor on my Vitesse a few years back, and at the same time fitted the Pertronix Hall-effect unit. Therefore I have never experienced a condensor, or points problem with the Mallory. The reason I fitted the Mallory was because of the wear on my Lucas unit, after all of 12,000 miles from new, plus the horrible quality of the modern reproduction caps and rotor arms, although better rotor arms are now beginning to 'surface'. I had already been using the Pertronix system on both my Vitesse, with Lucas distributor, and previously on my Herald with Lucas distributor, with complete satisfaction of those units. I had previously used other electronic ignition systems, mostly Luminition optical type systems which had proved very unreliable in practice, which is why I avoided Mallory's own optronic system, instead opting for the Pertronix. So far, so good with the Mallory/Petrtronix combo! Hope this helps some. Best Regards Lion From twakeman at razzolink.com Thu Sep 13 11:21:56 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:21:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: <46E971B4.5000702@razzolink.com> Scott Janzen wrote: > What are the symptoms you are experiencing with condenser failure? The failure seems to follow a logarithmic curve. First it is an occasional misfire while driving along and just when I start thinking of buying some new media for my spark plug cleaner it starts acting like I have a badly clogged fuel filter or torn fuel pump diaphragm and the carbs are not getting near enough fuel and then it quickly progresses to seeming like the timing chain jumped a tooth. First time it happened, I checked point gap, the cap rotor & plug wires, then I swapped in a new set of plugs, replaced the fuel filter then the fuel pump. Then drained out all the fuel (The condenser went bad right after I filled the fuel tank), blew out the fuel lines and added different fuel. At wits end I replaced the condenser. In decades of driving this was the first time I had ever had a condenser go bad on me and had no idea what the symptoms might be. Now at the slightest miss I think condenser. I find myself thinking about installing a high volume condenser dispenser, and how many I have to buy at a time to get a volume discount. Will another brand of condenser work? Do I need a special Mallory condenser or can I just go to my cheapo chain store & get something generic? Please keep those suggestions coming. Meanwhile I'll go out and sand the coating off the condenser I installed yesterday to replace the one I installed by the side of the road a few weeks ago. Thanks TeriAnn From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Sep 13 13:51:01 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: <46E971B4.5000702@razzolink.com> References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> <46E971B4.5000702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: Hi, Last time I bought some of the Mallory 400 condensers, the packaging listed the rating of the part, I think it's .28 microfarads. I know that NAPA has replacement condensors that look the same (same can, same connector) but have a blue wire, not orange like the Mallory. The NAPA part works, but I never stress tested to make sure that they work exactly the same as the Mallory part. I think the alternate replacement part is for a Jeep, but I could be wrong. It was def. a "drop-in" replacement. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From budscars at msn.com Thu Sep 13 14:42:31 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:42:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Vintage Spitfire Racecar Project Message-ID: <003101c7f646$9e222550$e883b304@Bud> ----contact Bruce John at bjohn at bart.gov for info Racer Bud MK 1 Vintage Spitfire Racecar Project Car has SCCA Logbook, is completely disassembled for restoration to CSRG approved vintage race configuration. Parts Included: Heavy duty competition after market rear axles GT6 Transmission converted to Spitfire configuration Vitesse close ratio transmission Several stock transmissions 4.11 Locked 3rd members Lightened steel flywheel Aluminum flywheel Hooker header Custom built HD Radiator Fuel cell with Aluminum housing 3 -1147 engines $1200.00 for all Bruce Bjohn at bart.gov Work: 510-464-6864 Home: 510-530-0614 From jaboruch at netzero.net Thu Sep 13 15:20:12 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:20:12 GMT Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Message-ID: <20070913.172012.26009.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> I had at this same problem with bad condensers a few years ago on my race TR3. I decided (after consulting this esteemed group) that Mallory was making junk condensers and gave up on them. I gutted the mallory dual point of the advance weights (had these fail too), condenser and one set of points. Now I just use a set of points as a trigger for an MSD6AL box and use an MSD electronic advance box. Joe(B) -- TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: Earlier this year I gave up on my Lucas distributor and converted to a Mallory dual point system. I've been much happier with the distributor curve. However it goes through condensers like popcorn at the movies. Some go bad in as little as 1000 miles. This is the first time I ever had condensers go bad on me. I'm puzzled by the cause and any suggestions would be welcome. Vehicle Triumph TR3A. Coil Lucas Sport coil Newer battery with freshly cleaned terminals. Battery wiring stock. Electrical wiring stock except for alternator conversion and electric fan. I've never had a condenser go bad with a Lucas distributor in the same environment. Voltmeter shows no resistance ground between point ground plate and distributor body. Are Mallory condensers unusually fragile? Is there a common substitute I can use that is a bit more robust? Is there something I'm overlooking? Right now I'm afraid to go out to dinner or to the grocery store without a spare condenser and tools in the boot. TeriAnn jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click to find great rates on medical insurance, save big, shop here. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmNwFdMlhcDuS98ik2sJAy1AW4 u5m7oGpsRFbDbsFhB0ojkd/ From vintage.racer at comcast.net Thu Sep 13 16:08:55 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:08:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory Distributor Message-ID: <001f01c7f652$ad111ec0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: I installed a Mallory dual point distributor with Bosch coil on my racing TR4 last year and have run six events without a problem. Then during the last race, I noticed a "hesitation" at about 4,500 rpm under acceleration which I attributed to vibration upsetting the fuel supply in the carbs (new motor mounts, hard mounted carbs). I have since isolated the carbs with the Weber style rubber mounts, hope this solves the problem. However, after reading this thread, I'm also going to do a bit of light sanding of the condenser as suggested just in case it is contributing or is the cause of the dreaded hesitation. My street TR6 uses a stock ignition setup and I've had zero problems in the eight months I've owned the car. Granted, its an around town car, no extended trips so far but it starts right up every time and the engine runs nice and smooth. Gary 62 TR4 69 TR6 From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Thu Sep 13 17:43:49 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:43:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? In-Reply-To: <8C9C42578E164BC-4F0-B52@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com> References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <8C9C42578E164BC-4F0-B52@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <008101c7f65f$f07ba6f0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> I've done it for short term while acquiring a proper axle. The toe-in will be wrong unless you do something to compensate. Otherwise ok. But why bother? Clark -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of herald948 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:00 AM To: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us some laps? ==AM== I don't think you'd need to switch springs, but there are differences in radius rods and/or mounts to the body (not sure which) and in brake hydraulic hoses. Also, if the car with the shorter "donor" axles is old enough, it might have the smaller flanges to the differential? Otherwise, it's only a 2" total difference in track width. Maybe that's a lot, but possibly a bit of creativity with wheels and/or wheel spacers could compensate? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Thu Sep 13 20:10:30 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:10:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> Message-ID: <003901c7f674$6d6986a0$6401a8c0@TER2> The capacitance of the condensor is related to the resistance of the priimary windings of the coil that is in the circuit. So the coil is critical!. The Mallory condensors may also not be as robust as they could be. A couple of years ago, when setting up a Mallory unit for a competition car, I noticed that the total dwell time available using the dual poiints in the Mallory system was WAY less than the 60 degrees of dwell available when using a Lucas 25 D or DM2 distributor. I called Mallory and taked to one of their engineers about this. Their response was that the windings of the Lucas coils are such that they take longer to charge up and so require a longer dwell time and a Mallory brand coil. He suggested that a Mallory coil was necessary in order to get the most perfromance from the Mallory distributor and that the condensor would then be matched to the coil. Greg Solow. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 7:35 AM Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems > Earlier this year I gave up on my Lucas distributor and converted to a > Mallory dual point system. I've been much happier with the distributor > curve. However it goes through condensers like popcorn at the movies. > Some go bad in as little as 1000 miles. This is the first time I ever > had condensers go bad on me. > > I'm puzzled by the cause and any suggestions would be welcome. > > Vehicle Triumph TR3A. > Coil Lucas Sport coil > Newer battery with freshly cleaned terminals. Battery wiring stock. > Electrical wiring stock except for alternator conversion and electric > fan. I've never had a condenser go bad with a Lucas distributor in the > same environment. > > Voltmeter shows no resistance ground between point ground plate and > distributor body. > > Are Mallory condensers unusually fragile? Is there a common substitute > I can use that is a bit more robust? Is there something I'm overlooking? > > Right now I'm afraid to go out to dinner or to the grocery store without > a spare condenser and tools in the boot. > > TeriAnn > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From emanteno at comcast.net Thu Sep 13 20:59:37 2007 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 02:59:37 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <091420070259.2714.46E9F918000BCB3300000A9A2207021573970A9D010507@comcast.net> Friends, I'd like to nominate Mark Vaden for membership in the FOT. Mark is in SoCal and is prepping a 62 TR4 to race with VARA, and I know he needs our help. Seconds? Mark's email is markvaden at gmail.com Irv Korey From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 21:26:51 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <091420070259.2714.46E9F918000BCB3300000A9A2207021573970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <340523.45358.qm@web57613.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Wow the guy has two strikes against him already; 1st) being nominated by Irv the Perv and 2nd) needing our help; but okay, a second. Welcome, Ernie Husmann emanteno at comcast.net wrote: Friends, I'd like to nominate Mark Vaden for membership in the FOT. Mark is in SoCal and is prepping a 62 TR4 to race with VARA, and I know he needs our help. Seconds? Mark's email is markvaden at gmail.com Irv Korey ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From BillB at bnj.com Thu Sep 13 21:18:43 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:18:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com><002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com><46E971B4.5000702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: There's nothing magic about the Mallory condensors (capacitors)--anything will work just as well. Condensers ideally are matched to the coil and ballast resistor, the distributor type doesn't matter except that dual point distys have really long dwell so the coil gets well saturated. I haven't had much problem with my mallory capacitors, but it's probably for two reasons--I run straight battery so my system runs at lower voltage, and I have a ballast resistor permanently wired in place. The condensors have to handle about 400 volts, that's what the voltage may climb to when the points open and the magnetic flux collapses. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Robert Lang Sent: Thu 9/13/2007 12:51 PM To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Hi, Last time I bought some of the Mallory 400 condensers, the packaging listed the rating of the part, I think it's .28 microfarads. I know that NAPA has replacement condensors that look the same (same can, same connector) but have a blue wire, not orange like the Mallory. The NAPA part works, but I never stress tested to make sure that they work exactly the same as the Mallory part. I think the alternate replacement part is for a Jeep, but I could be wrong. It was def. a "drop-in" replacement. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 21:35:48 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:35:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: <003901c7f674$6d6986a0$6401a8c0@TER2> References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> <003901c7f674$6d6986a0$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0709132035x586b6dag78d5ccac64f3d6a9@mail.gmail.com> Of course, one other splution is to get rid of the points and use a Mallory Unilite [spelling?] conversion -- seems to work very well for me. On 9/13/07, Greg Solow wrote: > > The capacitance of the condensor is related to the resistance of the > priimary windings of the coil that is in the circuit. So the coil is > critical!. The Mallory condensors may also not be as robust as they could > be. > A couple of years ago, when setting up a Mallory unit for a > competition > car, I noticed that the total dwell time available using the dual poiints > in > the Mallory system was WAY less than the 60 degrees of dwell available > when > using a Lucas 25 D or DM2 distributor. I called Mallory and taked to one > of > their engineers about this. Their response was that the windings of the > Lucas coils are such that they take longer to charge up and so require a > longer dwell time and a Mallory brand coil. He suggested that a Mallory > coil > was necessary in order to get the most perfromance from the Mallory > distributor and that the condensor would then be matched to the coil. > > Greg Solow. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" > To: "Friends of Triumph" > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 7:35 AM > Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems > > > > Earlier this year I gave up on my Lucas distributor and converted to a > > Mallory dual point system. I've been much happier with the distributor > > curve. However it goes through condensers like popcorn at the movies. > > Some go bad in as little as 1000 miles. This is the first time I ever > > had condensers go bad on me. > > > > I'm puzzled by the cause and any suggestions would be welcome. > > > > Vehicle Triumph TR3A. > > Coil Lucas Sport coil > > Newer battery with freshly cleaned terminals. Battery wiring stock. > > Electrical wiring stock except for alternator conversion and electric > > fan. I've never had a condenser go bad with a Lucas distributor in the > > same environment. > > > > Voltmeter shows no resistance ground between point ground plate and > > distributor body. > > > > Are Mallory condensers unusually fragile? Is there a common substitute > > I can use that is a bit more robust? Is there something I'm overlooking? > > > > Right now I'm afraid to go out to dinner or to the grocery store without > > a spare condenser and tools in the boot. > > > > TeriAnn > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From BillB at bnj.com Thu Sep 13 22:55:35 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:55:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Single wire alternator References: <46E8AAE5.000001.05828@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> Message-ID: I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone turn off their kill switch and nothing happens. I suspect that's one of the most common race car wiring errors. By the way, your solution isn't a great one--you'll have battery voltage to your alternator all the time. What you really need is a double pole kill switch with the alternator wire connecting to the smaller switch and then to either the batter or engine side. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of jwags at dotnet.com Sent: Wed 9/12/2007 8:13 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Single wire alternator I don't often have things to say, but last night while getting the purple(74) TR3 ready for Road America I turned the kill switch off with the engine running and to my surprise Everything kept running,engine,fuel pump,fan, O my! Even the brake lights worked. With a little time on the web I fond that a single wire alternator needs to be hook to The battery side of the kill switch, and not the starter. A little longer and larger wire Did the trick. We had been running like that for years. Tech always checks the switch with the engine Off. So if any one in FOT land thinks they might be in the same boat starter up and Turn off the kill switch. Just the wrench John Wagner billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mdporter at dfn.com Thu Sep 13 23:16:54 2007 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:16:54 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Single wire alternator In-Reply-To: References: <46E8AAE5.000001.05828@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> Message-ID: <46EA1946.2050409@dfn.com> Bill Babcock wrote: > I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone turn off their kill switch > and nothing happens. I suspect that's one of the most common race car wiring > errors. By the way, your solution isn't a great one--you'll have battery > voltage to your alternator all the time. What you really need is a double pole > kill switch with the alternator wire connecting to the smaller switch and then > to either the batter or engine side. > > > My story about this is more commercial than hobby. When Detroit Diesel first started to put electronic controls on their commercial engines, their engine computers ran on 12V and the injector drivers on 24V. So, when the 12V kill switch was turned off, the engine quit. Then, with the Series 50, they converted to their DDEC III computer, which ran entirely on 24V. Now, no one thought about it, because there was a 24V kill switch, too. Shut them both off, the engine should shut down in an emergency. But, they didn't. The MBTA in Boston went nuts on a new order of buses, because they'd trained all the emergency personnel, fire, cops, ambulance, their own people, to shut down the engines in an emergency with the kill switches. It was a simple circuit problem--because of the way the harnesses were wired--with separate 12V and 24V circuits and regulators, the 24V side formed a loop with the alternator charging circuit which kept the computer voltage at 24V. Hence, nothing stopped when the 24V switch was thrown to off. When I heard my boss explaining to the MBTA on the phone about how our engineers said it would take $600/bus and a year to design a fix, I went to the catalogs and found a Cole-Hersee switch with a field shut-off for about four bucks more than we were paying for the 12V switch from them we were using, and designed a jumper harness to the 24V reg circuit that cost us $1.80 to make. That Cole-Hersee switch is probably still in the catalogs (ten years ago, it was about $40 in bulk) and was made for marine use (silver-plated contacts). That's the way to fix any problem with persistent running. Shut off the battery positively, shut off the field and/or alternator output positively (in the case of single-wire units) and the electrons stop, too. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Fri Sep 14 06:36:51 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 07:36:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? In-Reply-To: <008101c7f65f$f07ba6f0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <8C9C42578E164BC-4F0-B52@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com> <008101c7f65f$f07ba6f0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7471590C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <> 'Cuz I need to do it short term while acquiring a proper axle :-) I've got some alternative trailing arms I hope to use to get the toe right - no real way to know until the axles are in the car. Thanks, Clark. Scott B. -----Original Message----- From: Clark W. Nicholls [mailto:clarkfot at cwnicholls.net] Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 6:44 PM To: herald948 at aol.com; Barr, Scott; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? I've done it for short term while acquiring a proper axle. The toe-in will be wrong unless you do something to compensate. Otherwise ok. But why bother? Clark -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of herald948 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:00 AM To: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us some laps? ==AM== I don't think you'd need to switch springs, but there are differences in radius rods and/or mounts to the body (not sure which) and in brake hydraulic hoses. Also, if the car with the shorter "donor" axles is old enough, it might have the smaller flanges to the differential? Otherwise, it's only a 2" total difference in track width. Maybe that's a lot, but possibly a bit of creativity with wheels and/or wheel spacers could compensate? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Fri Sep 14 08:05:47 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 07:05:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com><8C9C42578E164BC-4F0-B52@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com><008101c7f65f$f07ba6f0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7471590C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <001401c7f6d8$59b8ca80$2d02a8c0@Belkin> Get some of Clive Averill's aluminum turnbuckle radius arms with the Hiem joint ends. Then you can set the toe as you need. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barr, Scott" To: "Clark W. Nicholls" ; ; Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 5:36 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? > <> 'Cuz I need to do it short term while acquiring a > proper axle :-) > > I've got some alternative trailing arms I hope to use to get the toe > right - no real way to know until the axles are in the car. > > Thanks, Clark. > > Scott B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Clark W. Nicholls [mailto:clarkfot at cwnicholls.net] > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 6:44 PM > To: herald948 at aol.com; Barr, Scott; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: RE: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? > > I've done it for short term while acquiring a proper axle. > The toe-in will be wrong unless you do something to compensate. > Otherwise ok. > But why bother? > Clark > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > herald948 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:00 AM > To: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barr, Scott > > Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work > on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? > > The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us > some laps? > > ==AM== > I don't think you'd need to switch springs, but there are differences in > radius rods and/or mounts to the body (not sure which) and in brake > hydraulic hoses. Also, if the car with the shorter "donor" axles is old > enough, it might have the smaller flanges to the differential? > > Otherwise, it's only a 2" total difference in track width. Maybe that's > a lot, but possibly a bit of creativity with wheels and/or wheel spacers > could compensate? > > --Andy Mace > > *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? > *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, > Triumph Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > > Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph > Herald Database at its new URL: > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > clarkfot at cwnicholls.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Fri Sep 14 09:03:16 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:03:16 GMT Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Message-ID: <20070914.110316.4067.1@webmail01.dca.untd.com> I also do not run an alternator and had a ballast resistor, but kept having failed condensers. Maybe the Accel Super Coil was not a good match, but the combination did work well for years. Joe(B) -- "Bill Babcock" wrote: There's nothing magic about the Mallory condensors (capacitors)--anything will work just as well. Condensers ideally are matched to the coil and ballast resistor, the distributor type doesn't matter except that dual point distys have really long dwell so the coil gets well saturated. I haven't had much problem with my mallory capacitors, but it's probably for two reasons--I run straight battery so my system runs at lower voltage, and I have a ballast resistor permanently wired in place. The condensors have to handle about 400 volts, that's what the voltage may climb to when the points open and the magnetic flux collapses. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Robert Lang Sent: Thu 9/13/2007 12:51 PM To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Hi, Last time I bought some of the Mallory 400 condensers, the packaging listed the rating of the part, I think it's .28 microfarads. I know that NAPA has replacement condensors that look the same (same can, same connector) but have a blue wire, not orange like the Mallory. The NAPA part works, but I never stress tested to make sure that they work exactly the same as the Mallory part. I think the alternate replacement part is for a Jeep, but I could be wrong. It was def. a "drop-in" replacement. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click here and get the professional resume help you need. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlRJjPdbA489riu5RA4sJjDxkd M4A90Kb3VkzOOTCTEZ6AWW/ From S.Janzen at comcast.net Fri Sep 14 10:03:39 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:03:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems References: <20070914.110316.4067.1@webmail01.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <001601c7f6e8$d11f3f40$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> OK - dumb question, but how do I know if I need a ballast resistor and what capicity/where should it be wired? Have the afore-mentioned Mallory set-up, currently running with a Bosch Blue coil, no visible resistor anywhere. The GT6 has a totally bastardized wiring system - very little stock left (rear wiring harness bits) but no resistor anywhere. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Boruch" To: Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems >I also do not run an alternator and had a ballast resistor, but kept having > failed condensers. Maybe the Accel Super Coil was not a good match, but > the > combination did work well for years. Joe(B) > > -- "Bill Babcock" wrote: > There's nothing magic about the Mallory condensors (capacitors)--anything > will > work just as well. Condensers ideally are matched to the coil and ballast > resistor, the distributor type doesn't matter except that dual point > distys > have really long dwell so the coil gets well saturated. > > I haven't had much problem with my mallory capacitors, but it's probably > for > two reasons--I run straight battery so my system runs at lower voltage, > and I > have a ballast resistor permanently wired in place. > > The condensors have to handle about 400 volts, that's what the voltage may > climb to when the points open and the magnetic flux collapses. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Robert Lang > Sent: Thu 9/13/2007 12:51 PM > To: TeriAnn Wakeman > Cc: Friends of Triumph > Subject: Re: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems > > Hi, > > Last time I bought some of the Mallory 400 condensers, the packaging > listed the rating of the part, I think it's .28 microfarads. > > I know that NAPA has replacement condensors that look the same (same can, > same connector) but have a blue wire, not orange like the Mallory. The > NAPA part works, but I never stress tested to make sure that they work > exactly the same as the Mallory part. > > I think the alternate replacement part is for a Jeep, but I could be > wrong. It was def. a "drop-in" replacement. > > regards, > rml > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent > Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | > Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > jaboruch at netzero.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _____________________________________________________________ > Click here and get the professional resume help you need. > http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlRJjPdbA489riu5RA4sJjDxkd > M4A90Kb3VkzOOTCTEZ6AWW/ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 14 10:09:40 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:09:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Message-ID: In a message dated 9/14/2007 12:04:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, S.Janzen at comcast.net writes: currently running with a Bosch Blue coil, no visible resistor anywhere. The blue is internally ballasted IIRC, you can check between the LT terminals, around 2-3 ohms... Glen not a tweet ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From RYoung at navcomtech.com Fri Sep 14 12:14:01 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 11:14:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com><002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com><46E971B4.5000702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: > There's nothing magic about the Mallory condensors > (capacitors)--anything will > work just as well. FWIW, they don't even need to be inside the distributor. Some VWs have them mounted to the coil on the firewall, where I'll bet they last longer. Randall From joeg at neb.rr.com Fri Sep 14 23:06:12 2007 From: joeg at neb.rr.com (Joe Guinan) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 00:06:12 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Joe B III in "SportsCar" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000801c7f756$23758160$43a6544c@Guinan> I was just reading my October issue of the SCCA club magazine, and ran across an article about Joe Boruch III, progeny of our own Joe (B). It was a very complimentary article about a kid that seems to have his head screwed on right. As the father of an 18 year old, I know that's about the highest compliment you can pay to a parent. Congratulations Joe and Anne on raising a fine son. Joe Guinan Fremont, NE From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Sep 17 08:00:44 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:00:44 GMT Subject: [Fot] Joe B III in "SportsCar" Message-ID: <20070917.100044.11399.1@webmail18.dca.untd.com> Thanks Joe, your compliments are appreciated. He can be a handfull at times, since he is smarter than both of us combined. He does not know as much yet, so we are still a step ahead of him. He wants to fly and race (and the list goes on), so to do that he knows that he has to stay away from drugs and alcohol. Joe(B) -- "Joe Guinan" wrote: I was just reading my October issue of the SCCA club magazine, and ran across an article about Joe Boruch III, progeny of our own Joe (B). It was a very complimentary article about a kid that seems to have his head screwed on right. As the father of an 18 year old, I know that's about the highest compliment you can pay to a parent. Congratulations Joe and Anne on raising a fine son. Joe Guinan Fremont, NE jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Be your own boss today! Go to Technical School. Click here. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijngzTZEG1xkGl6yJ9hABq1Qx1r 2VWxgq8v6pDPDOoosC60vb/ From rikrock at aol.com Mon Sep 17 09:14:16 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:14:16 -0400 Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? Message-ID: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> British Parts Northwest is selling trimetal rod bearings they claim are made from the same materials as Vandervell VP2 bearings.? Has anyone seen or used these new beaings? Opinions, please. Thanks! Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From BillB at bnj.com Mon Sep 17 14:37:31 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:37:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? References: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of rikrock at aol.com Sent: Mon 9/17/2007 8:14 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? if anyone is doing oh they would they get a lot of stuff made and its generally good. I'll deck omit when I get home would be good news British Parts Northwest is selling trimetal rod bearings they claim are made from the same materials as Vandervell VP2 bearings.? Has anyone seen or used these new beaings? Opinions, please. Thank! Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Sep 17 17:59:52 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:59:52 -0800 Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? References: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003d01c7f986$d6f20e70$1a02a8c0@workstation3> I've been using these bearings for over a year and they hold up well. I'll be taking the engine apart this winter and I'll see how well they really have done. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:14 AM Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? > British Parts Northwest is selling trimetal rod bearings they claim are made from the same materials as Vandervell VP2 bearings.? Has anyone seen or used these new beaings? > > Opinions, please. > > Thanks! > > Rich Rock > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 13 12:40:09 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:40:09 EDT Subject: [Fot] VTR's TVT Magazine Message-ID: Got my issue today....one of the best. Thanks Mike Cook! Gary Horstkorta hit a home run with his article on his Competition TR4 and the use of Tony Viglioti's new Triumph Chassis. Congratulations to Bill Sohl....Honored Member of VTR. JA From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 17 17:02:49 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:02:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe From TR4racr at aol.com Mon Sep 17 17:10:27 2007 From: TR4racr at aol.com (TR4racr at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:10:27 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: I plan to attend the FOT at The Glen race in Sept 08, Thanks George Wright Mechanicsville,Va 1961 TR4 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 17 17:14:04 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:14:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] Road America Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival Message-ID: Alexander Racing became a member of the HOLE IN BLOCK GANG, in a spectacular way, coming into Corner Station Five. It was captured in it's entirety by an MG guy, who suffered the same fate the day before, and had his camera in the ready. Absolutely amazing cloud of oil, but no resulting fire. There are no longer any mosquitoes in that immediate vicintity. 2nd coming of the Exxon Valdez, methinks. My aopologies to the four racers behind me that did not complete the turn. I am pleased to say that there are no repairs to any cars needed, outside of my block. This block has been run in #197 since 1992. It deserves a rest. Great turnout by Triumphs. I'll leave it to others to spread the good news. It was a very good weekend. Joe Alexander Mark Alexander From sgroh1 at comcast.net Mon Sep 17 19:52:10 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (Steven Groh) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 21:52:10 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER References: Message-ID: <000d01c7f996$86ccfc60$6401a8c0@steven2sbouwlk> Me, too! Steve Groh SVRA #393 Spitfire E/P (This year's US Vintage Grand Prix was EXCELLENT!!!!!! Attending and driving Triumphs were: Bill Babcock Dick Stockton Henry Frye Cornell Babcock Randy Williams Bill Tobin Ed Ceilley Bill Shanahan Steve Groh ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Cc: ; Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER >I plan to attend the FOT at The Glen race in Sept 08, > Thanks > George Wright > Mechanicsville,Va > 1961 TR4 > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From greenman62 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 17 20:39:22 2007 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 02:39:22 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Road America Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >This block has been run in #197 since 1992. It deserves a rest. Hmmmm... it's probably sending out it's resume for a job as boat anchor... Saw yer smoke... Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Sep 17 20:42:41 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 02:42:41 GMT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: <20070917.224241.25591.0@webmail14.dca.untd.com> I plan to participate with my EP TR3. Jack Woerhle has given me an ok for this event. Joe(B) -- N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Online Stock Trading - Straightforward pricing. Powerful tools. Click here! http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijle4mmJsYXoiMzdKdMNGUtnfAF GlelE0joyTO3mPuOgTwUNS/ From DSPGTi at aol.com Mon Sep 17 20:59:10 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 22:59:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: My personal goal is to rebuild my 62 TR4 over the winter, test in the spring, get my SVRA license (or waiver) and be ready for "The Glen" in 08. Dave Yeager ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From mark at bradakis.com Mon Sep 17 21:01:28 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 21:01:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46EF3F88.5060402@bradakis.com> Maybe if I staqrt planning now I can fly out to spectate for the weekend. mjb. From triumphs at consolidated.net Mon Sep 17 22:26:05 2007 From: triumphs at consolidated.net (Ken Gano, home) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 23:26:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Have the dates been set? kg -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+triumphs=consolidated.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+triumphs=consolidated.net at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 6:03 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: JWoesvra at aol.com; Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe triumphs at consolidated.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Tue Sep 18 03:58:27 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 04:58:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? In-Reply-To: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <200709180958.l8I9wjw5008876@ns3.geneseo.net> I bought them and installed them. When I got them, I did not se evidence of the tri metal construction, and they were stamped "County" on the back. I asked BPNW about this, and they said that they were indeed different but with the current state of bearing company mergers, they were run through the same factory as the other County bearings. I should have scraped the edge to see what evidence I could find, but I did not do this. At 10:14 AM 9/17/2007, rikrock at aol.com wrote: >British Parts Northwest is selling trimetal rod bearings they claim >are made from the same materials as Vandervell VP2 bearings.? Has >anyone seen or used these new beaings? > >Opinions, please. > >Thanks! > >Rich Rock > >________________________________________________________________________ >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL >Mail! - http://mail.aol.com >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 05:57:56 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:57:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] Engine Failure #197 @ Road America Message-ID: Thanks for all of the replies and questions on the demise of the engine. Teardown should commence shortly. Cause is unknown at this point. Uncle Jack and I are going to perform an autopsy and will pass along any relevant information that may be of use to the FoT Wet Sleeve Crowd. There are two or more valves seized in the valve guides. One of them is at the #2 cylinder from the front. There are two pushrods that look like wine cork removers. One is at #2 cylinder. There is a hole in the block about the size of a child's fist. This is located at what appears to be the #2 connecting rod from the front. I draw no conclusions from this, but there seems to be a pattern. I recently acquired a 7 foot STAINLESS STEEL bench that looks suspiciously like an autopsy table. We will be putting it to good use. Joe (A) From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Sep 18 06:36:40 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:36:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070918123727.E8010187A16@autox.team.net> It's likely that Uncle Jack and Tony will attend. - Tony At 06:02 PM 9/17/2007, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: >FoT List: > >I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > >He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their >major event in September of next year. > >Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and >Running of the Original Street Course. > >Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our >Grand Marshall. > >The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car >for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > >We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack >Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > >It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an >indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > >Regards, > >Joe From jsnook at wcnet.org Tue Sep 18 07:27:56 2007 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:27:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER References: Message-ID: <012901c7f9f7$bed2c1b0$0301a8c0@JeffsNotebook> I plan on attending with my TR3A. Jeff Snook www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: JWoesvra at aol.com ; Jensen87 at aol.com Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 6:02 PM Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html jsnook_gmi at wcnet.org Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 18 08:29:56 2007 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Slightly OT: New clothing line Message-ID: <457598.47346.qm@web83102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Check out this link: http://www.autofieldguide.com/dp/auto/newsmonger.cfm?id=1539 Doug -- dmitchel at sbcglobal.net From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 18 08:35:43 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:35:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? References: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: You probably all thought I was on drugs or something with the message below. Actually I was sending it on my iPhone without benefit of reading glasses. What I meants to say was: \If anyone is doing it they would. They get a lot of stuff made and it's generally good. I'll check it out when I get home. It would be good news. I am, byt the way, back home in Portland. The house seems daunting after four months living in half a trailer. My office is a mess and so is my shop. I'll have to clean for days before I can even start on Peyote. Oh well. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Bill Babcock Sent: Mon 9/17/2007 1:37 PM To: rikrock at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of rikrock at aol.com Sent: Mon 9/17/2007 8:14 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? if anyone is doing oh they would they get a lot of stuff made and its generally good. I'll deck omit when I get home would be good news British Parts Northwest is selling trimetal rod bearings they claim are made from the same materials as Vandervell VP2 bearings.? Has anyone seen or used these new beaings? Opinions, please. Thank! Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fo From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 18 08:40:06 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:40:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER References: Message-ID: Maybe I need to start talking with Tony Garmey and Bill Hart. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Mon 9/17/2007 4:02 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: JWoesvra at aol.com; Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 18 09:21:01 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:21:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: In a message dated 09/18/2007 9:48:27 AM Central Daylight Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: > Maybe I need to start talking with Tony Garmey and Bill Hart. > And Bill Warner on the other coast. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 18 09:36:51 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:36:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: September 18, 2007 11:21 AM To: BillB at bnj.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; fot at autox.team.net Cc: JWoesvra at aol.com; Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In a message dated 09/18/2007 9:48:27 AM Central Daylight Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: > Maybe I need to start talking with Tony Garmey and Bill Hart. > And Bill Warner on the other coast. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com macdonaldp at rogers.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 18 09:51:46 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:51:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From John.Reed at wilson.com Tue Sep 18 10:10:14 2007 From: John.Reed at wilson.com (John.Reed at wilson.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:10:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What a cool car!! Regards, John Reed Staff Photographer Wilson Sporting Goods Co. 8750 W Bryn Mawr Ave, Chicago, Illinois 60631, USA Tel. + 1.773.714.6895, fax +1.773.714.4585 John.Reed at wilson.com www.wilson.com www.amersports.com Please note that effective immediately, my e-mail , phone number and street address have changed. Please update your files accordingly. "Paul MacDonald" Sent by: fot-bounces+jreed=wilson.com at autox.team.net 09/18/07 08:51 AM To cc Subject Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot jreed at wilson.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. From S.Janzen at comcast.net Tue Sep 18 11:35:23 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:35:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER References: Message-ID: <004101c7fa1a$4bcbce50$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Interesting to see what a good looking car the TR7 could have been . . . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul MacDonald" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. > > > http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php > > Paul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of > Paul MacDonald > Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > > > The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as > well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. > > http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html > > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 18 11:47:14 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:47:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER References: Message-ID: Yikes, who owns that? I wonder if it's for sale? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Paul MacDonald Sent: Tue 9/18/2007 8:51 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From deanesr at uncw.edu Tue Sep 18 12:25:34 2007 From: deanesr at uncw.edu (Deanes, Robert) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:25:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: <004101c7fa1a$4bcbce50$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: <46F56ACD52BC5F4F911EF9C4264FB4640CF74690@UNCWMAILVS1.dcs.uncw.edu> Glad to see there is going to be a big turn out of TR's at Watkins Glen, never been there myself but will bring my TR-4 up for this event, sounds like it will be "TR County". From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 18 12:59:41 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <584812.53566.qm@web57611.mail.re1.yahoo.com> While it would be really nice to see this Le Mans TR; it would also be nice to see any Wedge racer able to pass tech inspection on the track. This would be for us younger FoT members of course. Paul MacDonald wrote: Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 18 13:22:29 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:22:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: RE: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBERBert Smeets just bought it a couple of years ago and tried to get it ready for LeMans vintage 2007 race, but that didn't happen as far as I know. The following link gives a bit of background on him. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/classifieds.php Bert owns several factory built vintage TR7V8 rally cars and enters rallies regularly competing against modern machinery...and doing well too! The Le Mans car was written up recently in Classics Monthly magazine. Car has been completely stripped, with rebuilt power train including having the twin turbo engine rebuilt by John Eales. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock [mailto:BillB at bnj.com] Sent: September 18, 2007 1:47 PM To: Paul MacDonald; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Yikes, who owns that? I wonder if it's for sale? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Paul MacDonald Sent: Tue 9/18/2007 8:51 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rikrock at aol.com Tue Sep 18 14:15:01 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:15:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: <46F56ACD52BC5F4F911EF9C4264FB4640CF74690@UNCWMAILVS1.dcs.uncw.edu> Message-ID: <8C9C847BA489F37-774-6CC2@MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com> This is good news! The (Bob Stadel) Ambro will be there. Was a decision ever made on the offer from the Beaver Run/PVGP folks to feature Triumph at the July event? Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 14:57:48 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:57:48 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: Rich, Stadel Appearance: This is very good. I hope to have an Ambro there, but I will call that a 50/50 chance at this point. No final conclusion has been reached on Beaver/Run. But the response was dismal, especially when compared to Watkins Glen. I need to get back to Beaver/Run, unless someone else would like to promote this event. BTW, I would like to see other FoT organizing a 'focus' event in their areas or favorite venues. There are 12 months in the year and North America is a big place. Joe (A) > This is good news! The (Bob Stadel) Ambro will be there. > Was a decision ever made on the offer from the Beaver Run/PVGP folks to > feature Triumph at the July event? > > > Rich Rock > From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 15:03:15 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:03:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] Bill Warner to bring both of his Triumphs......to Watkins Glen Message-ID: FoT!!! Another Bell Ringer...I just got off the 'phone' with Carl Jensen. Carl says, "I spoke with Bill Warner and he will bring both of his cars. CJ" It hasnt even been 24 hours yet, and the response has been quite impressive. Joe (A) From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 16:59:10 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 18:59:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: FoT, I am looking for a host hotel. I have stayed in Corning, NY with good success with good rooms at good rates. I have one in mind. Does anyone else have an inside track on this? A favorite Hotel? I have negotiated special rates before. I will try again. Joe Alexander From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 18 17:44:08 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:44:08 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 References: Message-ID: There's only two great choices--the Seneca Lodge and the hotel that Ed and Bruce stay at--chime in here guys. I bet if we committed early we could get most of the Seneca Lodge. Great bar. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Tue 9/18/2007 3:59 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 FoT, I am looking for a host hotel. I have stayed in Corning, NY with good success with good rooms at good rates. I have one in mind. Does anyone else have an inside track on this? A favorite Hotel? I have negotiated special rates before. I will try again. Joe Alexander billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 18 17:58:23 2007 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <27206.49261.qm@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Count me and my TR4 in...............................I said the same about Utah and look what happened. Dennis DeLap N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From JWoesvra at aol.com Tue Sep 18 18:33:10 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:33:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 9/18/2007 7:47:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: There's only two great choices--the Seneca Lodge and the hotel that Ed and Bruce stay at--chime in here guys. I bet if we committed early we could get most of the Seneca Lodge. Great bar. Yeah, the week after holloween! The Seneca is booked by most folks on a yearly basis. You might get a room or two if someone cancels at the last minute. It won't hurt to check however. They could build a new wing. Contact the CofC soon and you might find another place in town. There will be places, but you MUST book soon. Jack Woehrle ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From brad.kahler at 141.com Tue Sep 18 19:07:45 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:07:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46F07661.6020204@141.com> Susan and Brad will likely be there provided work doesn't interfere and there is enough vacation time available. Brad N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT List: > > I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > > He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their > major event in September of next year. > > Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and > Running of the Original Street Course. > > Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our > Grand Marshall. > > The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car > for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > > We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack > Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > > It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an > indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > > Regards, > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > brad.kahler at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 19:16:17 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:16:17 EDT Subject: [Fot] Platform for AMBRO Build Message-ID: There is a TR3A rolling chassis for sale on eBay. Totally restored and in Mansfield, Ohio. From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 19:24:51 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:24:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: Understanding what Jack has to say,I am looking outside of Watkins Glen for convenience and price. But if someone has a better inside track, go for it. I have stayed in or near Corning a few times with fair convenience and under $100. Joe A > Yeah, the week after holloween! > > The Seneca is booked by most folks on a yearly basis. You might get a room > or two if someone cancels at the last minute. It won't hurt to check however. > They could build a new wing. > > Contact the CofC soon and you might find another place in town. > > There will be places, but you MUST book soon. > > Jack Woehrle > From westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net Tue Sep 18 21:17:01 2007 From: westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net (westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 03:17:01 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: <091920070317.16871.46F094AC000B5FE7000041E72160375964990E04D2069D@att.net> Seneca has the history. My first Glen was in 1965. I didn't have the money to stay there (college student and slept in my TR-3) but it is where the F-1 drives stayed. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from "Bill Babcock" : -------------- > There's only two great choices--the Seneca Lodge and the hotel that Ed and > Bruce stay at--chime in here guys. > > I bet if we committed early we could get most of the Seneca Lodge. Great bar. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of N197TR4 at cs.com > Sent: Tue 9/18/2007 3:59 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 > > FoT, I am looking for a host hotel. I have stayed in Corning, NY with good > success with good rooms at good rates. > > I have one in mind. > > Does anyone else have an inside track on this? > > A favorite Hotel? > > I have negotiated special rates before. I will try again. > > Joe Alexander > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > westerneagleracing at att.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 19 07:30:43 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:30:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Watkins_Glen=A0=A0_Host_Hotel=3F=A0=A0_2008?= Message-ID: Okay, I guessed I have missed something, Am I to assume from this communication that the official FOT meet is at SVRA Watkins Glen in Sept? If so, can someone send me an official release to publish? To keep up with the Jones and the Warners does this mean I need to get the 69 Championship Group 44 GT6 done by then? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillDentin at aol.com Wed Sep 19 07:41:00 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:41:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 09/18/2007 10:17:26 PM Central Daylight Time, westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net writes: > Seneca has the history. My first Glen was in 1965. I didn't have the > money to stay there (college student and slept in my TR-3) but it is where the > F-1 drives stayed. > Amici... While I agree 100%, that any trip to WATKINS GLEN that did not include a stop at the Seneca Lodge would be a mistake, I see no chance to making it an FOT Headquarters. That because, as Jack says, it is booked nearly 100% on a year to year basis. I'll also suggest that while you can't beat the history involved, its rooms are somewhat 'primitive.' If you can't get in, no big loss. BUT for sure, plan to have dinner there (great steak house), and the bar is a trip to road racing's past (also big for 'bow hunters'). The Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team has been racing the GLEN for nearly twenty years, and we have always stayed at the Marshall Manor Best Western in Horseheads, New York. Originally recommended by John Harkness, we are already booked for next year. About 25 minutes from the track, but we like it. There is a restaurant adjacent called the Hickory House. Looks like no more than an expanded tavern, but the wife is Chinese and the husband is Italian. Their menu features both cultures. Great food at tavern prices. The Crab Rangoo rivals anything you'll get in San Francisco. I agree one should be thinking about booking early, but in fact there are plenty of hotels in the area. Most are 20-30 minutes from the track. Prices will reflect the importance of that Zippo vintage week end. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From kaskas at cox.net Wed Sep 19 07:58:20 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 06:58:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 References: Message-ID: <003b01c7fac5$230a3000$5717c548@RW> I've stayed in the Best Western in Horseheads and it was just fine. There is a little known back road to get around all the traffic coming to the track. I've stayed in Corning several times, easy traffic and nice places to eat etc. I stayed a the Seneca lodge several times and thought the rooms were like sleeping in a tent that was set on on the side of a hill but without the natural drainage. ( not me, thank you). The bar and the food is great though..----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 6:41 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 > In a message dated 09/18/2007 10:17:26 PM Central Daylight Time, > westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net writes: > > >> Seneca has the history. My first Glen was in 1965. I didn't have the >> money to stay there (college student and slept in my TR-3) but it is >> where the >> F-1 drives stayed. >> > > Amici... > > While I agree 100%, that any trip to WATKINS GLEN that did not include a > stop > at the Seneca Lodge would be a mistake, I see no chance to making it an > FOT > Headquarters. That because, as Jack says, it is booked nearly 100% on a > year > to year basis. I'll also suggest that while you can't beat the history > involved, its rooms are somewhat 'primitive.' If you can't get in, no big > loss. BUT > for sure, plan to have dinner there (great steak house), and the bar is a > trip to road racing's past (also big for 'bow hunters'). > > The Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team has been racing the GLEN for > nearly > twenty years, and we have always stayed at the Marshall Manor Best Western > in > Horseheads, New York. Originally recommended by John Harkness, we are > already booked for next year. About 25 minutes from the track, but we > like it. > There is a restaurant adjacent called the Hickory House. Looks like no > more than > an expanded tavern, but the wife is Chinese and the husband is Italian. > Their menu features both cultures. Great food at tavern prices. The Crab > Rangoo > rivals anything you'll get in San Francisco. > > I agree one should be thinking about booking early, but in fact there are > plenty of hotels in the area. Most are 20-30 minutes from the track. > Prices > will reflect the importance of that Zippo vintage week end. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 19 08:12:41 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:12:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Watkins_Glen=A0=A0_Host_Hotel=3F=A0=A0_2008?= Message-ID: Tim! Good to hear from you! Yes! This is the 2008 Kastner Cup Event Yes! We should do a release...I suspect that this should come from SVRA. The first 24 hours of responses has been impressive. I think we have at least one Brit coming. Perhaps we should foster the idea of more of them coming, as we did at Mid_Ohio and VIR....... You need to get the Group 44 GT6 ready, anyway. This is a good reason. Joe (A) > Okay, I guessed I have missed something, Am I to assume from this > communication that the official FOT meet is at SVRA Watkins Glen in Sept? If so, can > someone send me an official release to publish? > > To keep up with the Jones and the Warners does this mean I need to get the > 69 Championship Group 44 GT6 done by then? > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 19 13:01:36 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:01:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] [Vintage-race] Steve Prewitt passes Message-ID: > Thanks for forwarding to the list. What car(s) did Steve race? > > Bill Carroll > I remember him racing a Corvette....very well and very fast. Joe Alexander From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 19 13:13:25 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:13:25 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen 2008 THE KASTNER CUP progress report Message-ID: Just a little summary: Of course, the Triumphs will have their own stand alone race as we have in the past. There will be a concession on the entry fee for the Triumphs, with a stipulation of early entry. So there: The track time will be up and the cost will be down. I have had one offer of a sponsorship, and there are likely other folks out there that may want to participate. Those monies are solely for our use......! I need to examine the opportunities further so that 'sponsors' get exposure in press releases, track programs, driver packets, etc. I could use some help. More details will be be forthcoming.... Joe Alexander From rikrock at aol.com Wed Sep 19 14:50:44 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:50:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9C915E225278E-B74-341C@webmail-da05.sysops.aol.com> The Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team has been racing the GLEN for nearly twenty years, and we have always stayed at the Marshall Manor Best Western in Horseheads, New York. Originally recommended by John Harkness, we are already booked for next year. About 25 minutes from the track, but we like it. Every time I drive past that place I tell myself I should look into staying there.? Easy and relatively short?drive to the track from Horseheads.? There are other "chains" in that area, too. Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Sep 19 15:21:33 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:21:33 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Map Quest says it's 1891miles from Albuquerque to Watkins Glen. I say "Hey Chuck, are you and that nice, big, trailer of yours going to be passing thru my neck of the woods?" On the other hand, IF I have my 2 car hauler roadworthy by then, [good incentive] is there anyone else from the SW that might want to share expenses to get their car there? Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 # 314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 17, 2007, at 5:02 PM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT List: > > I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > > He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part > of their > major event in September of next year. > > Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen > and > Running of the Original Street Course. > > Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT > and our > Grand Marshall. > > The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary > Pace Car > for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > > We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks > to Jack > Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > > It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an > indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > > Regards, > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > lunkercars at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From ejmajor250 at comcast.net Wed Sep 19 15:49:41 2007 From: ejmajor250 at comcast.net (Ed Major) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:49:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 References: Message-ID: <005801c7fb06$fbfa5110$6601a8c0@LoriMajor> The Montour Falls Motel is the other one, but people book that 100% from year to year (grandfather rule!) just like the Lodge. Ed Major '58 TR3, '68 TR250 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 > In a message dated 9/18/2007 7:47:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > BillB at bnj.com writes: > > There's only two great choices--the Seneca Lodge and the hotel that Ed > and > Bruce stay at--chime in here guys. > > I bet if we committed early we could get most of the Seneca Lodge. Great > bar. > > > Yeah, the week after holloween! > > The Seneca is booked by most folks on a yearly basis. You might get a room > or two if someone cancels at the last minute. It won't hurt to check > however. > They could build a new wing. > > Contact the CofC soon and you might find another place in town. > > There will be places, but you MUST book soon. > > Jack Woehrle > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > ejmajor250 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Sep 19 17:43:42 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:43:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: Allen Washatko > Date: September 19, 2007 6:43:01 PM CDT > To: N197TR4 at cs.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > > Joe, > > Watkins Glenn has been on my goal list for a long time. Count me in. > I'll just need to figure out a way to get the car there. > > Allen > > On Sep 17, 2007, at 6:02 PM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > >> FoT List: >> >> I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. >> >> He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of >> their >> major event in September of next year. >> >> Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen >> and >> Running of the Original Street Course. >> >> Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT >> and our >> Grand Marshall. >> >> The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary >> Pace Car >> for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) >> >> We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks >> to Jack >> Woerhle and Carl Jensen. >> >> It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an >> indication of the strength of our presence at this event. >> >> Regards, >> >> Joe >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> awashatko at wi.rr.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From trmarty at hotmail.com Wed Sep 19 19:12:01 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:12:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Competition brake pads for spitfire Message-ID: Ok you spitfire guru's out there. what do you folks recommend for pad and shoe compounds for a mid pack level prepared Spitfire road race car? I like the Hawk HP+ for autoxing my TR6 but don't know if they would be the best choice for a Spitfire road racer. Thanks, Marty Sukey _________________________________________________________________ Capture your memories in an online journal! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From jaboruch at netzero.net Wed Sep 19 20:02:28 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 02:02:28 GMT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: <20070919.220228.19481.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> When at the Glen I have usually stayed at the Hilton Garden Inn in Horseheads, near the mall, or the Hampton Inn in Corning. There are back roads to the track, so these are also about 20-25 minutes from the track. Joe(B) -- rikrock at aol.com wrote: The Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team has been racing the GLEN for nearly twenty years, and we have always stayed at the Marshall Manor Best Western in Horseheads, New York. Originally recommended by John Harkness, we are already booked for next year. About 25 minutes from the track, but we like it. Every time I drive past that place I tell myself I should look into staying there.? Easy and relatively short?drive to the track from Horseheads.? There are other "chains" in that area, too. Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click here to find singles for dating, romance and fun. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijm1iNXfbWNkB4jqJ2WAIryscXx Qdv5OYhfeaUAICoDfXEgxt/ From greenman62 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 19 10:40:03 2007 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:40:03 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Steve Prewitt passes Message-ID: I just received this obit from Pam at Victory Lane... Steven R. Prewitt Obituary Steve Prewitt moved to San Diego in 1998 after spending two years deciding on the best place to live. The choice was made from the heart. He loved the town, the weather, but most of all, the people. One of San Diegos unique attributes is that it instills in people a vacation mentality that supports overall happiness. Moving here at age 55 it might have been difficult to make new friends, but not in San Diego! He would tell you that the richness of his new friendships were the biggest blessing of the move. Steve was born on December 1, 1943 in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. His parents Robert and Evelyn moved to Des Moines where he attended Roosevelt High School. He attended Simpson College for two years, and then graduated in Business Administration from the University of Missouri in Columbia. Until his move to San Diego, Steve was owner and CEO of The Prewitt Company, a food sales and marketing company with the home office in Des Moines and satellite offices in Omaha and the Quad Cities. In Des Moines he also served on the board of directors for First Interstate Bank, the Riverfront YMCA, and Planned Parenthood. In San Diego, he served on the board of the San Diego Air and Space Museum. Steve knew any prior accomplishments were dwarfed by comparison when in 2007 his skull base disease gave him the rare opportunity to help give birth to an entity that will help millions of people into the future. With Steve as the founding president, four other highly skilled people came together to form the Steven Prewitt Skull Base Disease Foundation. Recognizing the dramatic need for an interdisciplinary information repository to advance the education, treatment and cure of skull base diseases, these five professional people committed to make this foundation their highest priority. It was with this passion and sustaining commitment that the foundation evolved and will continue to serve as the best one stop shopping for patients and physicians alike. You are encouraged to visit the foundations website at www.spsbdf.org. His passions fell into three categories. First, were his true friends. He drew no distinction between a blood relative and these special friends. He loved them equally. Of all his life assets, these friends were the most important. He gave thanks everyday that these special people were put in his lifes path. Each contributed greatly to the person he became. Second, until he began to experience health issues in 2004, athleticism was important his entire life for two reasons: 1). Stay in excellent condition. 2). Meet new friends through multiple sports at various gyms through the years. His health began to decline when he failed to realize the importance of the body/mind connection. If you are reading this, he would want you to learn the lesson of de-stressing your life. Regular workouts with a reasonable diet are truly only half the battle. Please understand that stress alone can kill you and only too late did he learn the inner serenity of giving your worries up to a higher power. In 2004 as he battled his first episode of Stage 4 cancer, he learned that lesson through the joy of finding the Pacific Beach United Methodist Church. Third was his passion for driving, collecting, or racing cars. He did all three with great enthusiasm. Yet, consistent with category #1, he would tell you that although we love our cars, they dont love us back. The true gift of the hobby is the opportunity to meet new, eclectic, and interesting friends. The hobby again spawned many of those friends for which he was deeply grateful. His sister, Patricia Ann Johnson, preceded him in 1969. He has two nieces from his sister, Holly Johnson from Denver and Cynthia Fischer from Hamilton, MT. As a father, his daughter Kelsey Prewitt from San Diego has always been the love of his life. His sweetheart, love, and constant companion over the last six-years was Bobbi Bennett. The family plans a private memorial service including cremation with scattering of ashes. In lieu of flowers, Steve asks two things: 1). Donate generously to the charity of your choice. 2). Take your best friends to lunch regularly and tell them that you love them. If they are out of town, call regularly and do the same thing. Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From sgroh1 at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 07:56:50 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (sgroh1 at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:56:50 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Competition brake pads for spitfire Message-ID: <092020071356.16429.46F27C22000368F20000402D2200735446CE08019D099C@comcast.net> I have Metalmaster pads on my SVRA E/P 1275 Spit, which are proving to be quite consistent, and long-lasting. However at the Glen last weekend, I talked to another Spit owner who highly endorses Hawk Blue pads, so I am going to get a set for next year and do a comparison. Steve Groh -------------- Original message -------------- From: marty sukey > Ok you spitfire guru's out there. what do you folks recommend for pad and shoe > compounds for a mid pack level prepared Spitfire road race car? I like the > Hawk HP+ for autoxing my TR6 but don't know if they would be the best choice > for a Spitfire road racer. > > Thanks, > Marty Sukey > > _________________________________________________________________ > Capture your memories in an online journal! > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 18 20:36:18 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 22:36:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60DB10D4-715C-4EB1-AE5D-31DDED3CB22D@bnj.com> Corning isn't all that close. There's a lot going on downtown during the vintage festival. Maybe I will bring the Airstream just to have a place to stay. I'll need to start working on Diane for this one. Targa Newfoundland has always appealed to me too. Especially since the Babcock since of the family is all from some dinky town in Newfoundland where everyone looks like me. Scary. From what I hear the gene poll is about a quarter inch deep. Bill Babcock billb at bnj.com bnj Website for Babcock & Jenkins, a direct and interactive agency You can subscribe to my Blogs Via email: All Aluminum Tour: Touring and racing classic North American tracks. http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=168395 Ponohouse : Living and playing in Maui. http://www.feedblitz.com/f/? Sub=168304 or Via RSS Ponohouse: http://feeds.feedburner.com/PonoHouse AllAluminumTour: http://feeds.feedburner.com/AllAluminumTour On Sep 18, 2007, at 9:24 PM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > Understanding what Jack has to say,I am looking outside of Watkins > Glen for convenience and price. > > But if someone has a better inside track, go for it. > > I have stayed in or near Corning a few times with fair convenience > and under $100. > > Joe A > > >> Yeah, the week after holloween! >> >> The Seneca is booked by most folks on a yearly basis. You might >> get a room or two if someone cancels at the last minute. It won't >> hurt to check however. They could build a new wing. >> >> Contact the CofC soon and you might find another place in town. >> >> There will be places, but you MUST book soon. >> >> Jack Woehrle From vinnyde at verizon.net Thu Sep 20 10:08:46 2007 From: vinnyde at verizon.net (Vincent De Palma) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:08:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Competition brake pads for spitfire Message-ID: <002401c7fba0$86f34ee0$2f01a8c0@userv8vydxzaql> I ran the Blue Hawk pads for several seasons and loved them. They just seem to stop quicker. My Spitfire was a mid-packer as well, but that's more the driver than the car. I was seeing some rotor wear on aftermarket rotors (Victoria British) but when I replaced them with some used Standard rotors the wear seemed to lessen quite a bit. Paul Smock says the Brits had superior iron!?? From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 20 10:13:08 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:13:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] official dates for SVRA'S WATKINS GLEN -SEPT 4-7 2008 Message-ID: Well, it is now official. Carl Jensen has spoken. The Watkins Glen Zippo Grand Prix featuring the FOT and the Kastner Cup September 4 through 7 of 2008 Thanks for asking. I would have guessed wrong. I have 28 Triumphs on the preliminary list and getting ready to invite the Brits. Joe (A) From billsohl at optonline.net Thu Sep 20 10:37:27 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:37:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - where to stay? - 2008 In-Reply-To: <091920070317.16871.46F094AC000B5FE7000041E72160375964990E04D2069D@att.net> References: <091920070317.16871.46F094AC000B5FE7000041E72160375964990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: <499BAEA8A870467BA3A0CD43E2DFC5EF@SohlPC> Here's another option for some folks... We have a travel trailer and have stayed each year at the KOA campgrounds which is only 3 miles from the track. I know other vintage racers have also stayed there. Cheers, Looking forward to a great event. Willing to help if needed in any planning, etc. Bill Sohl From BillB at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 11:02:42 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:02:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - where to stay? - 2008 In-Reply-To: <499BAEA8A870467BA3A0CD43E2DFC5EF@SohlPC> References: <091920070317.16871.46F094AC000B5FE7000041E72160375964990E04D2069D@att.net> <499BAEA8A870467BA3A0CD43E2DFC5EF@SohlPC> Message-ID: <6E9F7DDB-0952-4EA1-B61D-EF24CC054CB5@bnj.com> Of course there is also camping at the track, both some water/ electricity only sites at the far end of the paddock, some reserved camping-only sites (no race support RV's allowed) in the paddock, and a lot of reserved and unreserved camping everywhere outside the paddock and infield. It would be fairly easy to set up two Triumph ghettos -- one in the camping areas for those not using an RV for race car support and one in the paddock where Randy, Henry Frye, Steve Groh and I paddocked this year. Lots of fun after the official festivities. We were a bit more subdued this year both because of fairly frantic work on the cars, and also by the rain, but joint cookouts, movie nights, and convivial consumption of adult beverages sound like a necessity for such an august gathering. My paddock arrangements will be driven by how I get Peyote to the race. But I can always bring a tent if I don't bring Nero. On Sep 20, 2007, at 12:37 PM, Bill Sohl wrote: > Here's another option for some folks... > > We have a travel trailer and have stayed each year at the > KOA campgrounds which is only 3 miles from the track. > > I know other vintage racers have also stayed there. > > Cheers, > Looking forward to a great event. Willing to help if needed in any > planning, etc. > > Bill Sohl From Labs0808 at aol.com Thu Sep 20 12:04:01 2007 From: Labs0808 at aol.com (Labs0808 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:04:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Re watkins Glen Message-ID: I understand that arrangements can be made for trailers to be brought to the track by a local vender. These would be fifth wheel type full blown camping trailers, they would be less expensive and far safer then driving back into Corning each night ( lots of deer ) and of course if by chance beverages were consumed far safer. If anybody is interested I can do some homework for the group. I have stayed at the lodge for the past three years and can assure you are not missing anything from a lodging standpoint. The only thing that was lacking at the track was shower facilities and those were added a couple years ago for 75 cents a time. We will be there and try to bring the Ambro unless of course it finds a new home before then. Doug ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 20 12:46:58 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Re watkins Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <418824.74870.qm@web57602.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Doug: I like the idea. I for one would give up the chance to stock the freezer with deer meat for not driving an hour each day. E. Labs0808 at aol.com wrote: I understand that arrangements can be made for trailers to be brought to the track by a local vender. These would be fifth wheel type full blown camping trailers, they would be less expensive and far safer then driving back into Corning each night ( lots of deer ) and of course if by chance beverages were consumed far safer. If anybody is interested I can do some homework for the group. I have stayed at the lodge for the past three years and can assure you are not missing anything from a lodging standpoint. The only thing that was lacking at the track was shower facilities and those were added a couple years ago for 75 cents a time. We will be there and try to bring the Ambro unless of course it finds a new home before then. Doug ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! From tsheach at pba.co.uk Thu Sep 20 13:37:28 2007 From: tsheach at pba.co.uk (tr4.tony@virgin.net) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:37:28 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Re watkins Glen Message-ID: Doug I'm busy looking for a passout for the week to make the quick hope from sunny Scotland by the sea. A big trailer on site by FoT land would be good for me if its not going to kill me next time I owe the tyre guy money. Its unlikely that ill bring bst82B to compete but may bring willing crew to split the cost .... Spanners ready. Can you let me know what can be done ? I'm hoping that Joe A or Kas will sponsor me through your security ..... You're Plods don't like the kilt and the Connery aaccent only works on girls ... Regards Tony -----Original Message----- From: Labs0808 at aol.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: 20/09/07 19:04 Subject: [Fot] Re watkins Glen I understand that arrangements can be made for trailers to be brought to the track by a local vender. These would be fifth wheel type full blown camping trailers, they would be less expensive and far safer then driving back into Corning each night ( lots of deer ) and of course if by chance beverages were consumed far safer. If anybody is interested I can do some homework for the group. I have stayed at the lodge for the past three years and can assure you are not missing anything from a lodging standpoint. The only thing that was lacking at the track was shower facilities and those were added a couple years ago for 75 cents a time. We will be there and try to bring the Ambro unless of course it finds a new home before then. Doug ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com tr4.tony at virgin.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 14:02:58 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:02:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Re watkins Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As a regular user of the track showers at the Glen, I think that's something we shouldn't be telling a lot of people. They are currently uncrowded and you can get a nice hot shower, but there's only FOUR for the entire track. They have coin boxes, but the boxes don't seem to work--I discovered you can shower for free. Now I can afford that operation. Hey, Doug, how can I get a copy of your video of the race, including the shunt. It would make a fine addition to my blog and Peyote's history. If you want to mail a DVD my address is 4888 NW Bethany PMB 377 Portland, OR 97229 Or we could go all high tech and you could upload it to my web server, but that might take a bit of coordination. I'd like whatever native resolution you have. Bill On Sep 20, 2007, at 2:04 PM, Labs0808 at aol.com wrote: > I understand that arrangements can be made for trailers to be > brought to the > track by a local vender. > These would be fifth wheel type full blown camping trailers, they > would be > less expensive and far safer then driving back into Corning each > night ( lots > of deer ) and of course if by chance beverages were consumed far > safer. > If anybody is interested I can do some homework for the group. > I have stayed at the lodge for the past three years and can assure > you are > not missing anything from a lodging standpoint. The only thing > that was > lacking at the track was shower facilities and those were added a > couple years ago > for 75 cents a time. > We will be there and try to bring the Ambro unless of course it > finds a > new home before then. > Doug > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http:// > www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triumphs at consolidated.net Thu Sep 20 16:50:27 2007 From: triumphs at consolidated.net (Ken Gano, home) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:50:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] test Message-ID: Sorry for the wasted bandwidth. kg From vintage.racer at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 16:52:38 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:52:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? Message-ID: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware of the current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below will take you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. Gary 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" 69 TR6 http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no92. html From tlizzard at msn.com Thu Sep 20 17:07:49 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:07:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: It's all about the money. That said I still very much enjoy F1. It is an astonishing technical exercise. Very much like building high performance military aircraft. Amazing what the human mind can come up with when given a really restrictive set of parameters, and enough cash... It may be boring to many Americans to watch an F1 race, but not to me. 18,000+rpm is music to my ears. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:52 PM Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? Hello: If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware of the current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below will take you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. Gary 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" 69 TR6 http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no9 2. html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 20 17:20:56 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:20:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: <20070920232509.RDQD21920.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> I liked how rose-tinted his glasses appear to be. Talking about "His squeeze job on teammate Lewis Hamilton exiting the first turn at Spa last weekend clearly demonstrated his ill-will toward Hamilton as well as a lack of any on-track ethics." like it was some new phenomenon while completely ignoring history like Senna crashing into Prost when both were at McLaren to ensure that Senna took the Championship. Seems to me McLaren brings this type of problem on themselves by NOT having a driver running as its designated #1. As to the $100 mil fine. Again McLaren brought it on themselves. If they have been honest about the issue in June they would certainly have been fined and seen some points taken away. But as in most things it is not the initial crime that carried the real penalty but the cover up. Ron and Company made the FIA look like fools for not hitting them with any sanction after the first go round. When the additional info came out that even the drivers were discussing the stolen material in emails the FIA seems to have decided to slap McLaren hard enough that it got their attention. Bernie is right in that the $100 mil fine was good publicity for F1. I have friends that were astounded by the dollar number and these are people that have barely heard of F1 but know that I watch the races (I even subscribe to F1 Magazine) and they were asking me all kinds of questions this past week. At 03:52 PM 9/20/2007, you wrote: >Hello: > >If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware of the >current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below will take >you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. > >Gary >62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" >69 TR6 > >http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no92. >html >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >dave at microworks.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 20 17:26:40 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:26:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: <000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> I guess that everyone is entitled to his opinion. Personally, I am pleased with the penalties that were levied. The only thing that I didn't particularly like was that the drivers points were unaffected. What I heard is that the drivers were guaranteed to keep their points in order to get them to cooperate with the investigation. But I wonder how this episode has left Alonzo in the eyes of McLaren. My guess is that he will be wearing different livery next year. I guess it all could be compared with employment in industries that have trade secret information at stake. Employees typically sign non-disclosure agreements and their contracts are always laced with clauses stipulating that they are prohibited from working for any competitor for at least a couple of years after leaving their current employer. Surely, these teams have similar commitments involved in their hiring practices. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:53 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? Hello: If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware of the current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below will take you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. Gary 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" 69 TR6 http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no92 . html spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 20 17:41:18 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:41:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - where to stay? - 2008 Message-ID: The KOA also has Kamping Kabins...I did that once and liked it, OK. Joe (A) > Here's another option for some folks... > > We have a travel trailer and have stayed each year at the > KOA campgrounds which is only 3 miles from the track. > > I know other vintage racers have also stayed there. > > Cheers, > Looking forward to a great event. Willing to help if needed in any > planning, etc. > > Bill Sohl > _______________________________________________ > From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 20 17:50:12 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:50:12 EDT Subject: [Fot] TRIUMPHEST Message-ID: FoT, Anyone going to the Triumphest in Laughlin in October? A couple of us are going to be there and then going to VARA Race in Las Vegas. Joe (A) From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 20 17:53:26 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:53:26 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TRIUMPHEST In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000501c7fbe1$7035dce0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> There will be a couple of us there! Joe C -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:50 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TRIUMPHEST FoT, Anyone going to the Triumphest in Laughlin in October? A couple of us are going to be there and then going to VARA Race in Las Vegas. Joe (A) spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 20 17:48:00 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:48:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> <000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20070920235816.NJUU5014.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> >But I wonder how this episode has left Alonzo in the eyes of McLaren. My >guess is that he will be wearing different livery next year. It appears that it may have been Alonso that let slip the info about the emails. According to Ron Dennis he and Alonso are not even speaking http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40753 "Ron Dennis confirmed in last Thursday's FIA World Motor Sport Council hearing that he is not on speaking terms with his world champion driver Fernando Alonso..." From kaskas at cox.net Thu Sep 20 18:14:10 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:14:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> <20070920232509.RDQD21920.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: <008b01c7fbe4$5536f9d0$5717c548@RW> Yes, the squeeze was pretty evident to everyone, but no different that many of "Shumies" tactics in the past. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? >I liked how rose-tinted his glasses appear to be. > > Talking about "His squeeze job on teammate Lewis Hamilton exiting the > first turn at Spa last weekend clearly demonstrated his ill-will > toward Hamilton as well as a lack of any on-track ethics." like it > was some new phenomenon while completely ignoring history like Senna > crashing into Prost when both were at McLaren to ensure that Senna > took the Championship. Seems to me McLaren brings this type of > problem on themselves by NOT having a driver running as its designated #1. > > As to the $100 mil fine. Again McLaren brought it on themselves. If > they have been honest about the issue in June they would certainly > have been fined and seen some points taken away. But as in most > things it is not the initial crime that carried the real penalty but > the cover up. Ron and Company made the FIA look like fools for not > hitting them with any sanction after the first go round. When the > additional info came out that even the drivers were discussing the > stolen material in emails the FIA seems to have decided to slap > McLaren hard enough that it got their attention. > > Bernie is right in that the $100 mil fine was good publicity for F1. > I have friends that were astounded by the dollar number and these are > people that have barely heard of F1 but know that I watch the races > (I even subscribe to F1 Magazine) and they were asking me all kinds > of questions this past week. > > At 03:52 PM 9/20/2007, you wrote: >>Hello: >> >>If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware of >>the >>current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below will >>take >>you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. >> >>Gary >>62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" >>69 TR6 >> >>http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no92. >>html >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billsohl at optonline.net Thu Sep 20 19:47:45 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:47:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - where to stay? - 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EBF573805A84FDE983309E5BD4C5B9F@SohlPC> The KOA has both cabins and cottages...but most are already booked just like the many local area hotels and motels. ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: billsohl at optonline.net ; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net ; BillB at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen - where to stay? - 2008 The KOA also has Kamping Kabins...I did that once and liked it, OK. Joe (A) Here's another option for some folks... We have a travel trailer and have stayed each year at the KOA campgrounds which is only 3 miles from the track. I know other vintage racers have also stayed there. Cheers, Looking forward to a great event. Willing to help if needed in any planning, etc. Bill Sohl _______________________________________________ From stutzmans at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 19:58:21 2007 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:58:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 References: <60DB10D4-715C-4EB1-AE5D-31DDED3CB22D@bnj.com> Message-ID: <006401c7fbf2$e3a09d80$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> Pull out your N.Y. maps, guys. Painted Post, Corning and Horseheads are on I-86 between 15 & 20 miles from the track. They all have brand name hotels. Ithaca, where Russ lives, also has brand name hotels but a bit further away. There are 2 colleges there. Not likely that you'll find anything closer. We WPTA guys have been grandfathered at The Falls Motel in Montour Falls for years, almost walking distance. We have tried to get another room, unsuccessfully. Sunday night at the Seneca Lodge is great. Most people are gone, you can actually stand at the bar for a drink and get a dinner table when you want it. Don't do Watkins Glen without going to the Seneca Lodge. That is where a "schnockered" Buddy Palumbo peed in Julie's open suitcase. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 > Corning isn't all that close. There's a lot going on downtown during > the vintage festival. Maybe I will bring the Airstream just to have a > place to stay. I'll need to start working on Diane for this one. > Targa Newfoundland has always appealed to me too. Especially since > the Babcock since of the family is all from some dinky town in > Newfoundland where everyone looks like me. Scary. From what I hear > the gene poll is about a quarter inch deep. > Bill Babcock > billb at bnj.com > bnj Website for Babcock & Jenkins, a direct and interactive agency > > You can subscribe to my Blogs > Via email: > All Aluminum Tour: Touring and racing classic North American tracks. > http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=168395 > Ponohouse : Living and playing in Maui. http://www.feedblitz.com/f/? > Sub=168304 > > or Via RSS > Ponohouse: http://feeds.feedburner.com/PonoHouse > AllAluminumTour: http://feeds.feedburner.com/AllAluminumTour > > > > On Sep 18, 2007, at 9:24 PM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > >> Understanding what Jack has to say,I am looking outside of Watkins >> Glen for convenience and price. >> >> But if someone has a better inside track, go for it. >> >> I have stayed in or near Corning a few times with fair convenience >> and under $100. >> >> Joe A >> >> >>> Yeah, the week after holloween! >>> >>> The Seneca is booked by most folks on a yearly basis. You might >>> get a room or two if someone cancels at the last minute. It won't >>> hurt to check however. They could build a new wing. >>> >>> Contact the CofC soon and you might find another place in town. >>> >>> There will be places, but you MUST book soon. >>> >>> Jack Woehrle > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > stutzmans at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From igofaster at charter.net Thu Sep 20 20:00:14 2007 From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:00:14 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ Message-ID: <20070920220014.W0MWD.21261.root@fepweb10> Hello! I'm new to the forum, invited by Bob Kramer. I'm a longtime Triumph friend. I purchased this year the GT6 built by Bob Davis in central Florida. Way nice race preparred GT6, Bob Kramer can attest. My dilema is Mr. Davis did a heck of a job with the Toyota T5 gearbox conversion on the GT6. Recently with CVAR in Texas I enrolled in the driving school at TWS with the GT6. CVAR will allow me to continue for a short time to participate on a no points basis but I must return the Triumph to an appropriate gearbox. I'm open to suggestions. I've always felt the gearbox in the GT6's were soft at best. I had a TR6 gearbox I attempted to install at one time but looked like the frame would have to be cut and modified. I have a nice 1969 with an overdrive transmission, not sure if that is the answer. I only used 5th gear at TWS on the staightaway past the finish line and in the cooldown lap. The diff is the 3.73 (I think) locked. looking foward to the input... kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead 1970 GT6+ #33 From billsohl at optonline.net Thu Sep 20 20:18:46 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:18:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It would be great too if Charles (TRF) was able to bring along the '68 TR-250 "One Lap" car that was run in the 86, 87 and 88 one lap events. Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: ; Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:02 PM Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > FoT List: > > I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > > He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of > their > major event in September of next year. > > Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and > Running of the Original Street Course. > > Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and > our > Grand Marshall. > > The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace > Car > for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > > We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to > Jack > Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > > It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an > indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > > Regards, > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billsohl at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Thu Sep 20 20:23:51 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:23:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ Message-ID: We run a Triumph trans in our TR3 when we are allowed to run a Toyota trans. The irony of it all. I like the overdrive, but most racers don't. I have the Group 44 GT6 that I am trying to restore and would very much like to purchase your GT6 trans should you go a different route. Welcome to the list and you'll find a great group here. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From S.Janzen at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 20:35:47 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:35:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ References: <20070920220014.W0MWD.21261.root@fepweb10> Message-ID: <004501c7fbf8$1e223d10$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> This just came up on the Spit and GT6 forum http://members.boardhost.com/GT6-Spitfire/ after my car ate its gearbox - teeth stripped off the input gear shaft. Steve Smith has been running a TR6 trans for years. The GT6 box is apparently a weak point particularly in racing and/or with enhanced HP. Look for the dialogue on that site from about two weeks ago. I haven't converted yet, but I think that's the winter project. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:00 PM Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ > Hello! I'm new to the forum, invited by Bob Kramer. I'm a longtime Triumph > friend. I purchased this year the GT6 built by Bob Davis in central > Florida. Way nice race preparred GT6, Bob Kramer can attest. My dilema is > Mr. Davis did a heck of a job with the Toyota T5 gearbox conversion on the > GT6. Recently with CVAR in Texas I enrolled in the driving school at TWS > with the GT6. CVAR will allow me to continue for a short time to > participate on a no points basis but I must return the Triumph to an > appropriate gearbox. I'm open to suggestions. I've always felt the gearbox > in the GT6's were soft at best. I had a TR6 gearbox I attempted to install > at one time but looked like the frame would have to be cut and modified. I > have a nice 1969 with an overdrive transmission, not sure if that is the > answer. I only used 5th gear at TWS on the staightaway past the finish > line and in the cooldown lap. The diff is the 3.73 (I think) locked. > looking foward to the input... > kindest regards, > Bobby Whitehead > 1970 GT6+ #33 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Thu Sep 20 20:48:12 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:48:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Charles Illgen is BACK ON THE TRACK Thanks BOB THE CAR WON'T TURN COX Message-ID: Hi Gang..This is not all about Triumphs..but I bet that a bunch of you recognize the name as one heck of an SCCA Stanchion..The following is an email I sent to My Newsgroup Thanks for listening Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: RACER BUD To: DEREK MORGANMAN WILLBURN ; JIM SIX GUN HEARN ; ARTIE MOLDY CORDISCO ; BILL BURNOUT BOSTIC ; BILL PEYOTE SPECIAL BABCOCK ; BILL TECHNO ROOT ; BILL THE REVERAND MABRY ; BOB 356ER HEIMAN ; BOB FASPEC BREY ; BOB HACKSAW FRANK ; BOB JUST NORTH OF TOWN GUSFTASON ; BOB THE CAR WON'T TURN COX ; BRIAN 10.5 TENTHS FORSTER ; BRUCE SIDEWAYS LINCOLN JOHN ; BRUCE WHOSE BEANS ARE THOSE? ROSS ; CARL THE GRINDER STIRTZ ; CHARLES UPSIDE DOWN BMW ILLGEN ; CHARLIE LOST IN VEGAS HOOPAUGH ; CHUCK BIMSPINNER REYNOLDS ; COLLENA CUSHIONS MCHUGH ; DAN THE BOSS RADOWICZ ; DARCY I GOT MY MINI! PORTER ; DAVE POSTMASTER BOYD ; DEAN GEARHEAD COURT ; DEAN STEELHEAD BEAUPRE ; DENNIS THE COASTER ORTENBURGER ; DICK RISKY RYAN ; DOUG ROCKET MAN MUNSON ; ERIK I MAY NEED A WHEEL SAKUMA ; GARY MIRROR FILLER ANDERSON ; GARY TR HORSTKORTA ; HARDY CATPUSHER PRENTICE ; JACK 914-6 KUHN ; JANE RALLY GIRL BARKER ; JAY GODZILLA PATROL LAMM ; JEFF OUT TO LUNCH PRICE ; JERRY I THINK I'M JUST GONNA SELL THIS THING BURR ; JIM PENCILMAN WEISSENBORN ; JOE I DONT WANT TO JUST PLAY GOLF ANYMORE RILEY ; JOHN 0 OIL PRESSURE OTIS PETTIS ; JOHN CARZY RICE ; JOHN GO FOR IT LEWIS ; JOHN RIVERSIDE CONDREN ; JOHN SCABBARD BLAKEMORE ; JOHN T BIRD MILLER ; JOHN U BOAT BURTON ; JOHNNY NO PROBLEM NOLIND ; JULIA IOWA BLAIR ; KEN HOOKSETTER KIRK ; KEN NO FAULT BALL ; KEN STOMP BUCKET ARMANN ; KEVIN BACK AT IT SLOVER ; LARRY THE VOICE ALBEDI ; LEE SPUN OUT IN IDAHO HOGE ; LES WILL MY VETTE STOP? ALEXANDER ; MARK DEVIN BALESTRA ; MARTY 2 3/4 ALFAS HOROWITZ ; MARV NO FEAR STEELE ; MICHAEL AT SPEED PLITKINS ; MICHAEL I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR DOORS McDERMOTT ; MIKE FANG QUERIO ; MIKE KEEPER OF THE LOTI OSTROV ; MIKE LET'S DO THIS AGAIN TOMORROW MANNING ; MIKE SHIFTY JOHN ; PAUL THE VIKING PERRY ; PAUL TURBO RESNICK ; PETER I'M BUILDING SOMETHING KUNEDT ; RALPH CAMARO BANKMAN ; RAY BONNEVILLE HOWE ; RINDY RACER ; ROB I KNOW I CAN LAND THIS THING, JUST GIVE ME FULL THROTTLE SQUIRE ; ROBERTA ART BIRD ALEXANDER ; ROD 57 THROUGH THE TREES LEAVITT ; RON CROSSTHREAD CHISHOLM ; RON THROTTLEJOCKEY BOLLES ; RUSS VETTSTER UZES ; SCOTT HELICOPTER TROUTMAN ; SCOTT NOT AS SORE AS USUAL BERGEN ; SCOTT PILEDRIVER BROWN ; SKIP THE DRIP THOMPSON ; STEVE CAR SAVER BRISCOE ; STU ELVMASTER HOCKMAN ; TERRY AND CINDY I SHOULD HAVE STOPPED THIS STUFF O'BEIRNE ; TERRY TAPE DISTRIBUTOR GRIMM ; THOM BOY RACER IN FLORIDA COLLINS ; TIM 1988 IN TEXAS ARNETT ; TIM ROUNDY ROUNDS CRITCHELL ; TOM MAD DOG DUNCAN ; TOM MIATAMANIAC ANDERSON ; TOM TOSCANNELI DELAUER ; TRACY BIG HEALEY DRUMMOND ; TYLER TIME FOR A PORSCHE HUNT ; WARREN ROCKY PIERCE Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:37 PM Subject: Charles Illgen is BACK ON THE TRACK Thanks BOB THE CAR WON'T TURN COX Hi Gang..It's a long story for those of you who don't know CHARLES UPSIDE DOWN BMW ILLGEN..so..I'll cut to The chase...The SCCA Annual Enduro is named after Charles' Dad...Marty Illgen......Charles raced in the early 1980s, ..His Goal/Dream has been to race in .. "MY DAD'S RACE'...The S. Fran Region..SCCA Enduro.....Now...thanks to BOB THE CAR WON'T TURN COX...Charles has a Race Car...Bob has loaned the car to Chas..100% free..no charge whatsoever. This weekend..9/22-23..Chas will be at Infineon for the NASA school/event..to get 'Back In Tune' for his license... If YOU WILL/CAN BE at the NASA event this coming Weekend... Charles will Greatly appreciate some help in the pits..and would like to pit with someone..Charles is about 60 years of age..and is "Gutsy enough to start Racing Again.. GOOD JOB CHARLES Racver Bud From vintage.racer at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 21:08:51 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:08:51 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR-3A for sale Message-ID: <002a01c7fbfc$bc834b80$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: If anyone is interested, there is a very pristine, stock, 1960 TR-3A , British Racing Green with tan interior for sale here in Northern California. The car had numerous mechancial and some exterior restoration work completed over the last three years, although it was in good shape when purchased from the original owner. It has been driven approximately 1,500 miles per year in that period. I have no interest in this car other than helping a friend offer it for sale to FOT first before offering it to the general public. If anyone would like to contact the owner directly for more information, please email me offline. Gary 62 TR4 69 TR6 From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 22:30:13 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:30:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: <22CDB7D7-79C9-4EF4-B5FF-FA29DC6BF958@bnj.com> It's hardly boring, especially this year. I purposely paid as little attention as I could during the four months of the all aluminum Tour so I could watch it all on Tivo. That and MotoGP. I'm having a pleasnat time between cleaning my shop and disassembling Peyote (it's worse than I thought it was) drinking beer and watching F1 and MotoGP. Best thing about F1 these days is the qualifying. That and the amazing set of drivers in the top five. On Sep 20, 2007, at 7:07 PM, Terry Stetler wrote: > It's all about the money. > > That said I still very much enjoy F1. It is an astonishing technical > exercise. Very much like building high performance military aircraft. > Amazing what the human mind can come up with when given a really > restrictive > set of parameters, and enough cash... > > It may be boring to many Americans to watch an F1 race, but not to me. > 18,000+rpm is music to my ears. > > Terry Stetler > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:52 PM > Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? > > > Hello: > > If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well > aware of > the > current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link > below will > take > you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. > > Gary > 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" > 69 TR6 > > http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/ > the_way_it_is_no9 > 2 the_way_it_is_no9 > 2>. > html > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > tlizzard at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot mailman/li > stinfo/fot> > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 22:33:31 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:33:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> <000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: <9BEAB31B-C79C-4764-AA8E-31AC25D1A5F9@bnj.com> Non competition agreements are extremely hard to enforce anywhere and are rare outside the U.S. On Sep 20, 2007, at 7:26 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > I guess that everyone is entitled to his opinion. Personally, I am > pleased > with the penalties that were levied. The only thing that I didn't > particularly like was that the drivers points were unaffected. > > What I heard is that the drivers were guaranteed to keep their > points in > order to get them to cooperate with the investigation. > > But I wonder how this episode has left Alonzo in the eyes of > McLaren. My > guess is that he will be wearing different livery next year. > > I guess it all could be compared with employment in industries that > have > trade secret information at stake. Employees typically sign non- > disclosure > agreements and their contracts are always laced with clauses > stipulating > that they are prohibited from working for any competitor for at > least a > couple of years after leaving their current employer. > > Surely, these teams have similar commitments involved in their hiring > practices. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:53 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? > > Hello: > > If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well > aware of the > current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below > will > take > you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. > > Gary > 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" > 69 TR6 > > http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/ > the_way_it_is_no92 > . > html > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 22:39:43 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:39:43 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: there's a lot of times that I'd like another gear, I could probably "get away" with a five speed in Peyote, but it just doesn't seem quite right. I know it did have an overdrive for awhile--there was a switch sort of like a turn switch on the dash when I got it from Baxter Culver. I think you're better off running the four speed and getting the right rear end ratio for the tracks you like best. On Sep 20, 2007, at 10:23 PM, GRMTim at aol.com wrote: > We run a Triumph trans in our TR3 when we are allowed to run a > Toyota trans. > The irony of it all. I like the overdrive, but most racers don't. I > have the > Group 44 GT6 that I am trying to restore and would very much like > to purchase > your GT6 trans should you go a different route. Welcome to the list > and you'll > find a great group here. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 22:41:59 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:41:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ In-Reply-To: <004501c7fbf8$1e223d10$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <20070920220014.W0MWD.21261.root@fepweb10> <004501c7fbf8$1e223d10$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: <6AF778A4-5EC6-4AFA-9EBA-C2AE6C5A4DBD@bnj.com> I'm not that familiar with GT6 or Spitfires, but TR3/6 gearboxes are pretty weak too. Generally the layshaft bearing goes south because it's small and not all that well supported. I've heard that there are some fixes for this, including dual bearings on the rear end of the layshaft. Anyone ever hear of this? On Sep 20, 2007, at 10:35 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: > This just came up on the Spit and GT6 forum > http://members.boardhost.com/GT6-Spitfire/ after my car ate its > gearbox - > teeth stripped off the input gear shaft. Steve Smith has been > running a TR6 > trans for years. The GT6 box is apparently a weak point > particularly in > racing and/or with enhanced HP. Look for the dialogue on that site > from > about two weeks ago. > I haven't converted yet, but I think that's the winter project. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:00 PM > Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ > > >> Hello! I'm new to the forum, invited by Bob Kramer. I'm a longtime >> Triumph >> friend. I purchased this year the GT6 built by Bob Davis in central >> Florida. Way nice race preparred GT6, Bob Kramer can attest. My >> dilema is >> Mr. Davis did a heck of a job with the Toyota T5 gearbox >> conversion on the >> GT6. Recently with CVAR in Texas I enrolled in the driving school >> at TWS >> with the GT6. CVAR will allow me to continue for a short time to >> participate on a no points basis but I must return the Triumph to an >> appropriate gearbox. I'm open to suggestions. I've always felt the >> gearbox >> in the GT6's were soft at best. I had a TR6 gearbox I attempted to >> install >> at one time but looked like the frame would have to be cut and >> modified. I >> have a nice 1969 with an overdrive transmission, not sure if that >> is the >> answer. I only used 5th gear at TWS on the staightaway past the >> finish >> line and in the cooldown lap. The diff is the 3.73 (I think) locked. >> looking foward to the input... >> kindest regards, >> Bobby Whitehead >> 1970 GT6+ #33 >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> s.janzen at comcast.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Thu Sep 20 22:45:59 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:45:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> <22CDB7D7-79C9-4EF4-B5FF-FA29DC6BF958@bnj.com> Message-ID: <010701c7fc0a$4e36df80$5717c548@RW> I kind of hate to say it, but maybe now is the time to exercise the Ambro interest. I agree the F-1 qualifying is fantastic. Wish I were in it. It is a crafty, thinking business period, in a not too interesting racing era.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Terry Stetler" Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? > It's hardly boring, especially this year. I purposely paid as little > attention as I could during the four months of the all aluminum Tour > so I could watch it all on Tivo. That and MotoGP. I'm having a > pleasnat time between cleaning my shop and disassembling Peyote (it's > worse than I thought it was) drinking beer and watching F1 and > MotoGP. Best thing about F1 these days is the qualifying. That and > the amazing set of drivers in the top five. > On Sep 20, 2007, at 7:07 PM, Terry Stetler wrote: > >> It's all about the money. >> >> That said I still very much enjoy F1. It is an astonishing technical >> exercise. Very much like building high performance military aircraft. >> Amazing what the human mind can come up with when given a really >> restrictive >> set of parameters, and enough cash... >> >> It may be boring to many Americans to watch an F1 race, but not to me. >> 18,000+rpm is music to my ears. >> >> Terry Stetler >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Gary >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:52 PM >> Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? >> >> >> Hello: >> >> If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well >> aware of >> the >> current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link >> below will >> take >> you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. >> >> Gary >> 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" >> 69 TR6 >> >> http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/ >> the_way_it_is_no9 >> 2> the_way_it_is_no9 >> 2>. >> html >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> tlizzard at msn.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> mailman/li >> stinfo/fot> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> billb at bnj.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Thu Sep 20 22:58:20 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ In-Reply-To: <20070920220014.W0MWD.21261.root@fepweb10> Message-ID: <869572.62233.qm@web53505.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Bobby, Welcome to the list. There is a guy up here in CT by the name of John Esposito, Quantum Mechanics is the name of his business, and he builds-rebuilds GT-6 boxes using TR7 internal parts. From what I understand, all is pretty much the same except the TR7 parts are much "beefier". I can get you his number if you are interested. He has rebuilt my GT-6 box for my racing spit (SCCA) though I did not go with the TR7 bits, as I am going towards a dog-box in the future. Jay R. Creel igofaster at charter.net wrote: Hello! I'm new to the forum, invited by Bob Kramer. I'm a longtime Triumph friend. I purchased this year the GT6 built by Bob Davis in central Florida. Way nice race preparred GT6, Bob Kramer can attest. My dilema is Mr. Davis did a heck of a job with the Toyota T5 gearbox conversion on the GT6. Recently with CVAR in Texas I enrolled in the driving school at TWS with the GT6. CVAR will allow me to continue for a short time to participate on a no points basis but I must return the Triumph to an appropriate gearbox. I'm open to suggestions. I've always felt the gearbox in the GT6's were soft at best. I had a TR6 gearbox I attempted to install at one time but looked like the frame would have to be cut and modified. I have a nice 1969 with an overdrive transmission, not sure if that is the answer. I only used 5th gear at TWS on the staightaway past the finish line and in the cooldown lap. The diff is the 3.73 (I think) locked. looking foward to the input... kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead 1970 GT6+ #33 jaxonracing at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. From tsheach at pba.co.uk Fri Sep 21 04:30:33 2007 From: tsheach at pba.co.uk (tr4.tony@virgin.net) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:30:33 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ Message-ID: Hi folks I now run what is basically a triumph stag kd or ld series a type overdive box in bst82B .... The ct and cp series tr gearboxes were too weak for rally use and I minced a few before I started using the stag. The main differences are the layshaft and bearing ... Essentially the mod for non stag boxes replicate what triumph eventually produced. Looks original and right. Rgds Tony -----Original Message----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Scott Janzen" Cc: fot at autox.team.net; igofaster at charter.net Sent: 21/09/07 05:41 Subject: Re: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ I'm not that familiar with GT6 or Spitfires, but TR3/6 gearboxes are pretty weak too. Generally the layshaft bearing goes south because it's small and not all that well supported. I've heard that there are some fixes for this, including dual bearings on the rear end of the layshaft. Anyone ever hear of this? On Sep 20, 2007, at 10:35 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: > This just came up on the Spit and GT6 forum > http://members.boardhost.com/GT6-Spitfire/ after my car ate its > gearbox - > teeth stripped off the input gear shaft. Steve Smith has been > running a TR6 > trans for years. The GT6 box is apparently a weak point > particularly in > racing and/or with enhanced HP. Look for the dialogue on that site > from > about two weeks ago. > I haven't converted yet, but I think that's the winter project. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:00 PM > Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ > > >> Hello! I'm new to the forum, invited by Bob Kramer. I'm a longtime From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 21 04:28:12 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:28:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] GT6 gearbox Message-ID: <003901c7fc3a$1cc34350$0101a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> If the organization will accept big TR boxes and/or the 5th gear is the hangup with them, then put in the Toyota 4psd. It is a drop in replacement. Or even better yet, pull the gearbox and take the 5th gear out. It was just and add in to the 4 speed gearbox by Toyota anyway. Bob ex- 70 GT6 vintage race owner From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Fri Sep 21 07:16:17 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 08:16:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> I didn't realize until this thread started that some organizations allow other gearboxes if 'functionally equivalent". Same goes for brakes. Here are excerpts from SVRA's rules: "Transmissions: Must be functionally equivalent to the unit provided by the manufacturer. Gear ratios are free with no increase in the number of forward speeds. Reverse must work." The old TR gearbox with overdrive gives six speeds. Converting to Toyota or other would bring that back down to five. Likewise on brakes, (too long to retype) the gist of it is that alternate rotors, drums, and calipers are allowed as long as current dimensions, materials, and pad area are maintained. I really like those regs. Not all North American racing clubs agree. The only "advantage" these regs may give a competitor is in a reduction of maintenance cost and time. Everybody who has tried to keep Triumph transmissions intact for more than a couple of years, or anyone who has tried to make the new stainless brake pistons and new seals actually work, will appreciate what I mean. uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Fri Sep 21 07:40:05 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 08:40:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A9C8DF4@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Bobby is with CVAR and we don't have anything like the SVRA "functionally equivalent" in our rules but he can use a TR6 gearbox. As a side note, BPNW is selling nitrided caliper pistons. No chrome to flake of and they are advertised as rust resistant. I have them in a street TR6. Time will tell. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack W. Drews Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:16 AM To: fot at autox.team.net; Carl Braun; rdwismer at mchsi.com Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality I didn't realize until this thread started that some organizations allow other gearboxes if 'functionally equivalent". Same goes for brakes. Here are excerpts from SVRA's rules: "Transmissions: Must be functionally equivalent to the unit provided by the manufacturer. Gear ratios are free with no increase in the number of forward speeds. Reverse must work." The old TR gearbox with overdrive gives six speeds. Converting to Toyota or other would bring that back down to five. Likewise on brakes, (too long to retype) the gist of it is that alternate rotors, drums, and calipers are allowed as long as current dimensions, materials, and pad area are maintained. I really like those regs. Not all North American racing clubs agree. The only "advantage" these regs may give a competitor is in a reduction of maintenance cost and time. Everybody who has tried to keep Triumph transmissions intact for more than a couple of years, or anyone who has tried to make the new stainless brake pistons and new seals actually work, will appreciate what I mean. uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net rkramer at rdoequipment.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From n197tr4 at cs.com Fri Sep 21 08:02:50 2007 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:02:50 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: <380-22007952114250178@M2W037.mail2web.com> I will ask Charles... Original Message: ----------------- From: Bill Sohl billsohl at optonline.net Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:18:46 -0400 To: N197TR4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net, Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER It would be great too if Charles (TRF) was able to bring along the '68 TR-250 "One Lap" car that was run in the 86, 87 and 88 one lap events. Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: ; Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:02 PM Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > FoT List: > > I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > > He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of > their > major event in September of next year. > > Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and > Running of the Original Street Course. > > Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and > our > Grand Marshall. > > The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace > Car > for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > > We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to > Jack > Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > > It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an > indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > > Regards, > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billsohl at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com  Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft. Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From awashatko at wi.rr.com Fri Sep 21 08:09:31 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:09:31 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Message-ID: Friends, As long as we are on this path what would the group recommend for an upgrade to my TR6 race car transmission? I'm currently running TR7 close ratio gears in the TR6 case with a race prepared "J" type overdrive. Worked well until last weekend when I took all of the teeth off the input shaft and 4th gear. Is the Stag transmission an option? Does someone make straight cut gears for the TR? If you use the Toyota box, is it strong enough and can you get a good set of gear ratio's? Is someone making a kit that doesn't cost an arm and leg (close to $5,000 from Moss)? I'm producing approx. 225HP. Allen Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Fri Sep 21 08:44:51 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:44:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003801c7fc5d$f93a8af0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> Check Herman's conversions: http://www.hvdaconversions.com/ He's a great guy and has engineered these kits himself, from what I gather... Clark From N197TR4 at cs.com Fri Sep 21 09:06:15 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:06:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Message-ID: Outstanding folks, the Van Den Akkers. He sold his Tool & Die Company a few years ago and is operating out his garage north of Los Angeles. He has some significant machine tools in his garage and knows how to use them. He devotes most of his time to Triumphs, works closely with Ken Gillanders, and is known to drive his TR250 from coast to coast with the scheduling of major Triumph Events. Joe (A) > Check Herman's conversions: > http://www.hvdaconversions.com/ > He's a great guy and has engineered these kits himself, from what I > gather... > Clark > From RustyTR4 at aol.com Fri Sep 21 10:41:51 2007 From: RustyTR4 at aol.com (RustyTR4 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:41:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Firestones??? Message-ID: Hello FOT, We would like to source Firestones -- preferable 165 X R15's. Does anyone know about availability?? Thanks, Don Weinberger Matt Bakes Triumph Rescue (610) 845 - 8217 _www.TriumphRescue.com_ (http://www.triumphrescue.com/) British Wiring, Inc. 866-461-9050 _www.BritishWiring.com_ (http://www.britishwiring.com/) 617 Walnut St. Bally, PA. 19503 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From Fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 21 10:57:40 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:57:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ Message-ID: In a message dated 9/21/2007 12:43:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: Generally the layshaft bearing goes south because it's small and not all that well supported. I've heard that there are some fixes for this, including dual bearings on the rear end of the layshaft. Anyone ever hear of this? The Stag has an improved laygear bearing setup but there really isn't that big a problem with the stock arrangement IF you use good parts & service it regularly. Some of the laygear replacement bearings are caged & don't have many needles in them. Torrington has a nice bearing but sometimes you have to deepen the housing bore a tad to fit them. The laygear thrusts wear from the little pieces of trash getting behind the gear & the thrust washer & backside of the washer & eating up the gear thrust washer & case but frequent lube changes minimizes this. The biggest problem is getting good parts for them. Most of the good OEM stuff is gone & repros are always in question.Syncros are a big problem, lot of bogus pos replacements on the market. Kens BFE CR gearset is great & if the box is built right & maintained it will live a good life. Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From cartravel at pobox.com Fri Sep 21 12:34:31 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:34:31 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46F40EB7.2040001@pobox.com> My transmission rebuild article at www.vtr.org has pictures of the three different layshaft bearings and typical layshaft wear. The best arrangement was the loose needle bearings used in the 3 synchro boxes, but unfortunately these can't be used in a 4 synchro box. I agree with Glen. The shell type bearings are the next best and they can be used as a direct replacement for the open cage bearings. Triumph seems to have changed these bearings more for ease of assembly rather than improved wear and reliability. Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/21/2007 12:43:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > billb at bnj.com writes: > > Generally the layshaft bearing goes south because > it's small and not all that well supported. I've heard that there are > some fixes for this, including dual bearings on the rear end of the > layshaft. Anyone ever hear of this? > > > > The Stag has an improved laygear bearing setup but there really isn't that > big a problem with the stock arrangement IF you use good parts & service it > regularly. > Some of the laygear replacement bearings are caged & don't have many needles > in them. Torrington has a nice bearing but sometimes you have to deepen the > housing bore a tad to fit them. > The laygear thrusts wear from the little pieces of trash getting behind the > gear & the thrust washer & backside of the washer & eating up the gear thrust > washer & case but frequent lube changes minimizes this. > The biggest problem is getting good parts for them. Most of the good OEM > stuff is gone & repros are always in question.Syncros are a big problem, lot of > bogus pos replacements on the market. > Kens BFE CR gearset is great & if the box is built right & maintained it > will live a good life. > Glen > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > cartravel at pobox.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Fri Sep 21 12:46:28 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:46:28 EDT Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ Message-ID: > Kens BFE CR gearset is great & if the box is built right & maintained it > will live a good life. > Glen > I have had BFE's CR Gearset for two years now. I love it. Joe A From kaskas at cox.net Fri Sep 21 13:14:05 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:14:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox References: Message-ID: <001f01c7fc83$95905d10$5717c548@RW> My Competition Prep book has a story and some photos of Herman's conversion. Good stuff. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox > Outstanding folks, the Van Den Akkers. > > He sold his Tool & Die Company a few years ago and is operating out his > garage north of Los Angeles. He has some significant machine tools in his > garage > and knows how to use them. > > He devotes most of his time to Triumphs, works closely with Ken > Gillanders, > and is known to drive his TR250 from coast to coast with the scheduling of > major Triumph Events. > > Joe (A) > >> Check Herman's conversions: >> http://www.hvdaconversions.com/ >> He's a great guy and has engineered these kits himself, from what I >> gather... >> Clark >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 21 13:32:52 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:32:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <001901c7fc86$33c404d0$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> amen to that! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack W. Drews" To: ; "Carl Braun" ; Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 9:16 AM Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality >I didn't realize until this thread started that some organizations > allow other gearboxes if 'functionally equivalent". Same goes for > brakes. Here are excerpts from SVRA's rules: > > "Transmissions: Must be functionally equivalent to the unit provided > by the manufacturer. Gear ratios are free with no increase in the > number of forward speeds. Reverse must work." > > The old TR gearbox with overdrive gives six speeds. Converting to > Toyota or other would bring that back down to five. > > Likewise on brakes, (too long to retype) the gist of it is that > alternate rotors, drums, and calipers are allowed as long as current > dimensions, materials, and pad area are maintained. > > I really like those regs. Not all North American racing clubs agree. > The only "advantage" these regs may give a competitor is in a > reduction of maintenance cost and time. Everybody who has tried to > keep Triumph transmissions intact for more than a couple of years, or > anyone who has tried to make the new stainless brake pistons and new > seals actually work, will appreciate what I mean. > > uncle jack > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From hottr6 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 21 13:45:51 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:45:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Message-ID: Allan Washatko asked: >As long as we are on this path what would the group recommend for an >upgrade to my TR6 race car transmission? I'm currently running TR7 close >ratio gears in the TR6 case with a race prepared "J" type overdrive. Same setup that I am running, but not pushing anywhere near that HP. IMO the next best course would be a dog box. I think Dan Masters runs one of these. So too Dave Wingett. Shane Ingate, now in NEW MEXICO! _________________________________________________________________ Gear up for Halo. 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_MSNHMTxt_1 From spitlist at cox.net Fri Sep 21 13:58:21 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:58:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox References: <001f01c7fc83$95905d10$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <008401c7fc89$c3f0b640$2d02a8c0@Belkin> Herman is probably going to be at Triumphest next month and he usually brings some stuff with him. So if anyone who is going to be there wants to see his gearbox conversion in person, now is your chance. Joe C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox > My Competition Prep book has a story and some photos of Herman's conversion. > Good stuff. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; ; > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:06 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox > > > > Outstanding folks, the Van Den Akkers. > > > > He sold his Tool & Die Company a few years ago and is operating out his > > garage north of Los Angeles. He has some significant machine tools in his > > garage > > and knows how to use them. > > > > He devotes most of his time to Triumphs, works closely with Ken > > Gillanders, > > and is known to drive his TR250 from coast to coast with the scheduling of > > major Triumph Events. > > > > Joe (A) > > > >> Check Herman's conversions: > >> http://www.hvdaconversions.com/ > >> He's a great guy and has engineered these kits himself, from what I > >> gather... > >> Clark > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > kaskas at cox.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Fri Sep 21 13:48:41 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:48:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Message-ID: IMO the next best course would be a dog box. I think Dan Masters runs one of these. So too Dave Wingett. Are these the Quaife gears or something else? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Fri Sep 21 13:48:08 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:48:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <9BEAB31B-C79C-4764-AA8E-31AC25D1A5F9@bnj.com> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice><000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <9BEAB31B-C79C-4764-AA8E-31AC25D1A5F9@bnj.com> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715F67@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> And by the time you're trying to enforce them, the confidentiality horse is out of the barn... -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:34 PM To: Joe Curry Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? Non competition agreements are extremely hard to enforce anywhere and are rare outside the U.S. On Sep 20, 2007, at 7:26 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > I guess that everyone is entitled to his opinion. Personally, I am > pleased with the penalties that were levied. The only thing that I > didn't particularly like was that the drivers points were unaffected. > > What I heard is that the drivers were guaranteed to keep their points > in order to get them to cooperate with the investigation. > > But I wonder how this episode has left Alonzo in the eyes of McLaren. > My guess is that he will be wearing different livery next year. > > I guess it all could be compared with employment in industries that > have trade secret information at stake. Employees typically sign non- > disclosure agreements and their contracts are always laced with > clauses stipulating that they are prohibited from working for any > competitor for at least a couple of years after leaving their current > employer. > > Surely, these teams have similar commitments involved in their hiring > practices. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:53 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? > > Hello: > > If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware > of the current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link > below will take you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its > worth a read. > > Gary > 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" > 69 TR6 > > http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/ > the_way_it_is_no92 > . > html > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot scott.barr at mccarty-law.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fasttrs at mindspring.com Fri Sep 21 14:17:00 2007 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:17:00 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002301c7fc8c$5e0cb2e0$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> I run a Saenz dog box also. Mike -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Shane Ingate Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 3:46 PM To: awashatko at wi.rr.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Allan Washatko asked: >As long as we are on this path what would the group recommend for an >upgrade to my TR6 race car transmission? I'm currently running TR7 close >ratio gears in the TR6 case with a race prepared "J" type overdrive. Same setup that I am running, but not pushing anywhere near that HP. IMO the next best course would be a dog box. I think Dan Masters runs one of these. So too Dave Wingett. Shane Ingate, now in NEW MEXICO! _________________________________________________________________ Gear up for Halo. 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_MSNHMTxt_1 fasttrs at mindspring.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From henry at henryfrye.com Fri Sep 21 14:21:42 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:21:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> When I first realized SVRA was allowing alternate gearboxes I did a little nosing around and found the concept was not universally accepted. I can sympathize with those who do not build their own gearboxes, it would be expensive to send your box out to a specialist every time it needs attention. But once you get it set up right, with the right syncros, and DRIVE IT RIGHT, there is no reason it can't last a couple seasons or more. Mine does. To the guys running non-Triumph gearboxes, I do feel you have a performance advantage. If you want to keep the regular (non-dog box) Triumph box alive, you must shift much slower than modern stuff. Tell me with a straight face that doesn't effect lap times. While I applaud SVRA for their intent, I feel they have just removed another layer of "Vintage". And to those thinking the Toyota box conversion is the answer, do your homework on spares availability... Happy shifting. > -----Original Message----- > From: Of Jack W. Drews > Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality > > I didn't realize until this thread started that some > organizations allow other gearboxes if 'functionally > equivalent". From RYoung at navcomtech.com Fri Sep 21 14:44:40 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:44:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: > And to those thinking the Toyota box conversion is the answer, do your > homework on spares availability... Hint : There's a place in El Monte, CA that brings in used ones from Japan, because they are cheaper than repairing broken ones. The broken ones get sold for scrap ... Randall fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 21 15:20:55 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:20:55 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715F67@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice><000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <9BEAB31B-C79C-4764-AA8E-31AC25D1A5F9@bnj.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715F67@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <02E039CD-BFC0-4C81-9279-192BED798A66@bnj.com> That too. My agency has a big technology base, valuable client relationships, and bushels of confidential information. Oregon has draconian confidentiality laws (thanks to Tektronix and Intel) and we are very careful to dot the t's and cross the i's to make our non-comp and confidentiality agreements binding when we hire someone. With all that going for us, the few times we've had to release the lawyers from hell, the only value was lots of shared pain between us and the miscreants. If you're in a better position to stand the pain then you sort of win. On Sep 21, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Barr, Scott wrote: > And by the time you're trying to enforce them, the confidentiality > horse > is out of the barn... > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On > Behalf > Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:34 PM > To: Joe Curry > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? > > Non competition agreements are extremely hard to enforce anywhere and > are rare outside the U.S. > > On Sep 20, 2007, at 7:26 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > >> I guess that everyone is entitled to his opinion. Personally, I am >> pleased with the penalties that were levied. The only thing that I >> didn't particularly like was that the drivers points were unaffected. >> >> What I heard is that the drivers were guaranteed to keep their points >> in order to get them to cooperate with the investigation. >> >> But I wonder how this episode has left Alonzo in the eyes of McLaren. > >> My guess is that he will be wearing different livery next year. >> >> I guess it all could be compared with employment in industries that >> have trade secret information at stake. Employees typically sign >> non- > >> disclosure agreements and their contracts are always laced with >> clauses stipulating that they are prohibited from working for any >> competitor for at least a couple of years after leaving their current >> employer. >> >> Surely, these teams have similar commitments involved in their hiring >> practices. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net >> [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of >> Gary >> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:53 PM >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? >> >> Hello: >> >> If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware >> of the current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link >> below will take you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its >> worth a read. >> >> Gary >> 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" >> 69 TR6 >> >> http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/ >> the_way_it_is_no92 >> . >> html >> spitlist at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> billb at bnj.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > scott.barr at mccarty-law.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 21 15:40:34 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:40:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: This is one of those rare occasions when I don't agree with you Henry. No doubt deliberate shifting is the answer to longevity, and no doubt the cost of not shifting deliberately should modify behavior. But it doesn't. There are those folks that can get around a track pulling everything out of a car without grinding a gear. And those that can't. You see it at every level of racing--the people with mysterious mechanical sympathy that never break anything but still stand on podiums, and the mid-pack folks that can break the ears off a brass donkey. It's a talent, it's not a conscious decision. The TR gearbox is painfully fragile and very expensive to optimize. There's fewer of them every day (it's like COBOL programmers-- thousands will die this year). Even when you have a really superbly assembled TR box it's life-span in even a 140 HP TR is relatively short, and there's no useful new parts. IMNSHO the idea is to keep racing these cars, not to price that foolish act beyond the means of the average folks. I'm all in favor of the compromises that do that. And for what it's worth, my Hardy Prentice-built CR box shifts at least as fast as my dog box, and snicks into gear like a Ferrari transmission. But you need to wait months for Hardy to watch enough television to build one (he stones the gears while he watching TV) and when you crate the transmission you might as well use ten dollar bills for packing material instead of newspaper, 'cause that's about what it will take. The dog box is an economy measure (at least that's the story I told Diane, and I'm sticking with it). On Sep 21, 2007, at 4:21 PM, Henry Frye wrote: > When I first realized SVRA was allowing alternate gearboxes I did a > little nosing around and found the concept was not universally > accepted. > > > I can sympathize with those who do not build their own gearboxes, it > would be expensive to send your box out to a specialist every time it > needs attention. But once you get it set up right, with the right > syncros, and DRIVE IT RIGHT, there is no reason it can't last a couple > seasons or more. Mine does. > > To the guys running non-Triumph gearboxes, I do feel you have a > performance advantage. If you want to keep the regular (non-dog box) > Triumph box alive, you must shift much slower than modern stuff. > Tell me > with a straight face that doesn't effect lap times. > > While I applaud SVRA for their intent, I feel they have just removed > another layer of "Vintage". > > And to those thinking the Toyota box conversion is the answer, do your > homework on spares availability... > > Happy shifting. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Of Jack W. Drews >> Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality >> >> I didn't realize until this thread started that some >> organizations allow other gearboxes if 'functionally >> equivalent". > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 21 15:45:27 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:45:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <1D27710E-D176-43BF-AFBE-61E66698A5C8@bnj.com> Toyota gearboxes are as common as belly buttons, and most have minimal wear on them. The Japanese have interesting licensing and inspection laws that ensure the domestic cars turn over frequently. The drivetrains are frequently exported to the US. It would be unusual to rebuild one--you can get a replacement for next to nothing. I paid a hundred bucks for two from 2TG toyotas--of course that was four years ago. I pulled them apart to check the typical wear areas and they were indistinguishable from new. FWIW, I never used them. They're in my storeroom waiting for me to build something that could use them. On Sep 21, 2007, at 4:44 PM, Young Randall wrote: >> And to those thinking the Toyota box conversion is the answer, do >> your >> homework on spares availability... > > Hint : There's a place in El Monte, CA that brings in used ones > from Japan, > because they are cheaper than repairing broken ones. The broken > ones get sold > for scrap ... > > Randall > > > > > fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted > with it may > contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one > of its > affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual > or entity to > whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not > disclosed > to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you > are not the > intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the > electronic > mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this > electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, > printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly > prohibited. If you > have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately > notify the > sender by return mail. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mdporter at dfn.com Fri Sep 21 16:05:10 2007 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:05:10 -0600 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <1D27710E-D176-43BF-AFBE-61E66698A5C8@bnj.com> References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> <1D27710E-D176-43BF-AFBE-61E66698A5C8@bnj.com> Message-ID: <46F44016.2080208@dfn.com> Bill Babcock wrote: > Toyota gearboxes are as common as belly buttons, and most have > minimal wear on them. The Japanese have interesting licensing and > inspection laws that ensure the domestic cars turn over frequently. > The drivetrains are frequently exported to the US. It would be > unusual to rebuild one--you can get a replacement for next to > nothing. I paid a hundred bucks for two from 2TG toyotas--of course > that was four years ago. I pulled them apart to check the typical > wear areas and they were indistinguishable from new. > > What Bill says is probably true of the transmissions today. However, this is not precisely true of the Celica/Supra/4WD 5-speeds of yesteryear, so be careful from whence the transmission comes. From the late `70s until around the mid-`80s, the 5-speeds had a tendency to fail mainshaft bearings. Toyota was aware of the problem and decided it was cheaper to just informally extend the warranty on the transmission than to do a mold and machining change to modify the case for a wider roller bearing at the front, and continued to use a ball bearing, which wasn't up to the loads. Oh, and if someone tells you their transmission came out of the diesel truck and is therefore stronger, that's not true--those transmissions were the same as the above. All that probably does not apply for anything made beyond the mid- to late-`80s, but there are still lots of the older transmissions in junkyards, so it's worth remembering. To a lesser degree, the same was true of the Corolla 5-speeds of the time, but they didn't suffer the same rate of failure because they just couldn't be pushed as hard. Even so, in the sixteen months I was at a Toyota shop in the early `80s, I did do a bearing replacement on a Corolla 5-speed with about 30,000 miles on it. All that said, though, they're a much better starting point than the GT6 gearbox.... Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 21 16:31:42 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:31:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net><2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local><1D27710E-D176-43BF-AFBE-61E66698A5C8@bnj.com> <46F44016.2080208@dfn.com> Message-ID: <008001c7fc9f$2fb047f0$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> This GT6 has a T50 5 speed so can't say much about the others (besides the others are much larger and heavier than the T50). However, they did modify the front of the T50 case to accept a larger input shaft ball bearing assembly in the later gearboxes which was supposed to help. When buying spare parts (which are readily available if you know where to look) you need to know which box you have. I have looked inside 100K gearboxes and 50K gearboxes. Bearings show little or no wear in either. Even the syncro's are still good and Granny drove the car for 20 years. Used gearboxes are everywhere for $150-$200. Really good ones from Japan are $500-$1000. A variety of close ratio gear sets are available if you look hard . I know I will get hammered for saying this.....but most of us are just wannabe drivers anyway (me included) and how much advantage will the gearbox really give you. It will sure keep you on the track longer and seeing the cars on the track is really the fun for alot of us. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Porter" To: "Bill Babcock" Cc: ; "Young Randall" Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 6:05 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > Bill Babcock wrote: >> Toyota gearboxes are as common as belly buttons, and most have >> minimal wear on them. The Japanese have interesting licensing and >> inspection laws that ensure the domestic cars turn over frequently. >> The drivetrains are frequently exported to the US. It would be >> unusual to rebuild one--you can get a replacement for next to >> nothing. I paid a hundred bucks for two from 2TG toyotas--of course >> that was four years ago. I pulled them apart to check the typical >> wear areas and they were indistinguishable from new. >> >> > > What Bill says is probably true of the transmissions today. However, > this is not precisely true of the Celica/Supra/4WD 5-speeds of > yesteryear, so be careful from whence the transmission comes. From the > late `70s until around the mid-`80s, the 5-speeds had a tendency to fail > mainshaft bearings. Toyota was aware of the problem and decided it was > cheaper to just informally extend the warranty on the transmission than > to do a mold and machining change to modify the case for a wider roller > bearing at the front, and continued to use a ball bearing, which wasn't > up to the loads. Oh, and if someone tells you their transmission came > out of the diesel truck and is therefore stronger, that's not > true--those transmissions were the same as the above. > > All that probably does not apply for anything made beyond the mid- to > late-`80s, but there are still lots of the older transmissions in > junkyards, so it's worth remembering. > > To a lesser degree, the same was true of the Corolla 5-speeds of the > time, but they didn't suffer the same rate of failure because they just > couldn't be pushed as hard. Even so, in the sixteen months I was at a > Toyota shop in the early `80s, I did do a bearing replacement on a > Corolla 5-speed with about 30,000 miles on it. > > All that said, though, they're a much better starting point than the GT6 > gearbox.... > > > Cheers. > > -- > > > Michael Porter > Roswell, NM > > > Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking > distance.... > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Catpusher at aol.com Fri Sep 21 16:47:45 2007 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:47:45 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Message-ID: I spent quite some time blueprinting the TR3B/6 gearboxes for racing. The late laygear with "c" clips to help retain the (rear) laygear brg. is a good thing, and TRF supplies a slightly longer torrington lay brg, which is also good. I would check the hardness of any new layshaft. With Redline oil, I really flogged this gearbox with fine reliability. Do check and safety wire the top cover wedgelocks. I used the modified CR gearsets from the Dolomite Sprint (can not quite picture TR7 gears in the big TR box) I did run many seasons with the 7 speed overdrive setup before scca allowed alt. gear ratios for the TR3. The Stag gearbox has a 2 diameter layshaft, so there is a larger ID for the 2 rear lay bearings; it also has nifty needle layshaft thrust bearings. Do not believe the stag manual about drifting the layshaft out the front of the case! The standard input shaft is too long for TR use. Hardy ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From JWoesvra at aol.com Fri Sep 21 18:13:08 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 20:13:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: In a message dated 9/21/2007 5:41:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: > While I applaud SVRA for their intent, I feel they have just removed > another layer of "Vintage". > > And to those thinking the Toyota box conversion is the answer, do your > homework on spares availability... > > Happy shifting. I'm not sure who is "lurking" and not naming themselves, but I have an idea. Anyway, SVRA did not "just" remove another layer of "VINTAGE! This transmission rule has been in effect for ten years. Do you guys ever read the stuff I print and post? I guess you don't, Henry...oops. Anyway, I want cars on the track on Sunday. Nothin' I hate worse than seeing TR's or such leaving Friday busted. Almost is bad is looking in a TR guy's trailer and seeing 3 g'boxes lined up "jist 'n case. As long as I have the reins on the tech side of SVRA you can count on reasonable solutions to the ever mounting reliability problems. You can call me whatever you want, that is the way it is. BTW, If you read deep enough, there is also a small weight penalty for changing to a "modern" tranny. If you want to be absolutely pure Vintage then you shouldn't be discussing alternate rods and cranks, alloy HD hubs, specialty gears, etc. How many of you have fake headlights? That wasn't allowed until 1970. What about passenger seats? Had to have one until 1969. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director for 16 years and not ready to retire ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Fri Sep 21 21:08:03 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 20:08:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] grp 44 frt brakes Message-ID: <46F48713.4060408@cyberspeedway.net> Everybody, It turns out that the drawings Rod Kent had were from Group 44 for bigger spindles and bearings to cure the spindle flex problem. The bigger bearings required a bigger hub but it mounted stock rotors. This mod predated SCCA allowing the Jag rotor/caliper combo. I do have some sketches of the bigger spindles and hubs I made for the street toy. They use the Jag rotors because we had so many spares. I also have the sketches of adapters to mount the Sumitomo 300zx calipers. The ZX calipers have huge pistons which help solve the TR pedal ratio shortcomings. The spindles use the stock inner bearing with a Chevy Malibu outer. I can scan the sketches if anybody is interested. They do have most dimensions but they were drawn while being made so I can't guarantee results. (your mileage may vary) Anybody good with Autocad is welcome to clean them up. Greg Lund From walt at hot-tr6.com Fri Sep 21 21:37:13 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:37:13 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Weber Racing Carburetors T- Shirt for FOT members Message-ID: <20070922033755.1317C1879BA@autox.team.net> If you use Weber Carbs on your Triumph, as I do, you might be interested in my limited run of T Shirts. See ebaymotors item # 330168439080. I am offering special pricing to FOT members of $19 per shirt and this includes shipping. If interested please contact me ditectly via email at: walt at hot-tr6.com Give me the size and color you wish. I'll ship you the shirt you can mail me the check. Thank You Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, NM From wgrosenbach at juno.com Fri Sep 21 16:41:05 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:41:05 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Colfax Avenue Cruise and Car Festivals Saturday 9-22, 4-8 PM Message-ID: <20070921.164105.1676.27.wgrosenbach@juno.com> This Saturday, 22-September is the inaugural Colfax Avenue Cruise and Car Festivals. One change has been that for this year anyway, it was not possible to get setup to use any of the sites out West in Lakewood/ Golden for a Festival Site. So the Western-most site will be at a location [coincidentally named] Festival Plaza at 3220 W. Colfax in Denver. Second site is East High School is at 2300 E. Colfax in Denver. The third site is at the Super K-Mart at 15200 W. Colfax in Aurora. See http://www.oldcarcouncil.org/CruiseColfax.html for more information. Participate! As a spectator if not as a driver. KOOL-105 will be at all sites. Spread the word, bring your friends! From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Fri Sep 21 22:38:15 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:38:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox Message-ID: <46F49C37.8000108@cyberspeedway.net> A couple of people mentioned the number of speeds in a TR box referencing that 4 speed + OD = 6 or 7 speeds. Unfortunately, SCCA never recognized the OD as "speeds" until sometime in the 90's. They had wording in the GCR stating that 4 speeds plus OD still equals 4 speeds in the gearbox. This kind of convoluted logic has mostly gone away. We are now allowed 5 speeds. With the torquey big TR motors, using 5 gears would most probably result in lower lap times. Most Production and GT racers are using 1st gear in a 5 speed as a paddock gear. Around PIR, Firebird, and Buttonwillow, using 3 gears is faster than 4 with a lot of close ratio boxes and production engines. Most of us clubbies shift too often and at too high an rpm but it sure sounds good. Sometimes on board data aquisition ruins a good thing. Greg Lund From Catpusher at aol.com Sat Sep 22 00:42:44 2007 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 02:42:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] Subject: Re: gearbox legality Message-ID: Hi FOT and Bill, I will have a real response later, as it is very late here; but just in case Continental drops an aircraft tomorrow: I had no distractions whilst working on BB's gearboxes, not even radio; and they were shipped before requested. I was very impressed that he asked for the very best that I could build. It is also fun to hear thoughts about my workshop. No new customers requested. Hardy In a message dated 9/21/2007 8:08:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: And for what it's worth, my Hardy Prentice-built CR box shifts at least as fast as my dog box, and snicks into gear like a Ferrari transmission. But you need to wait months for Hardy to watch enough television to build one (he stones the gears while he watching TV) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sat Sep 22 03:33:38 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 04:33:38 -0500 Subject: [Fot] grp 44 frt brakes In-Reply-To: <46F48713.4060408@cyberspeedway.net> References: <46F48713.4060408@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <200709220934.l8M9Xwk1157180@ns3.geneseo.net> .............or you might be interested in the kit available on the market to accomplish this, eliminating the need for you to have your local machine shop do it............. At 10:08 PM 9/21/2007, greg wrote: >Everybody, > It turns out that the drawings Rod Kent had were from Group 44 for >bigger spindles and bearings to cure the spindle flex problem. The >bigger bearings required a bigger hub but it mounted stock rotors. This >mod predated SCCA allowing the Jag rotor/caliper combo. I do have some >sketches of the bigger spindles and hubs I made for the street toy. They >use the Jag rotors because we had so many spares. I also have the >sketches of adapters to mount the Sumitomo 300zx calipers. The ZX >calipers have huge pistons which help solve the TR pedal ratio >shortcomings. The spindles use the stock inner bearing with a Chevy >Malibu outer. I can scan the sketches if anybody is interested. They do >have most dimensions but they were drawn while being made so I can't >guarantee results. (your mileage may vary) Anybody good with Autocad is >welcome to clean them up. > >Greg Lund >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From BillDentin at aol.com Sat Sep 22 07:28:44 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:28:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: In a message dated 09/21/2007 4:42:14 PM Central Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: > This is one of those rare occasions when I don't agree with you > Henry. No doubt deliberate shifting is the answer to longevity, and > no doubt the cost of not shifting deliberately should modify > behavior. But it doesn't. There are those folks that can get around a > track pulling everything out of a car without grinding a gear. And > those that can't. You see it at every level of racing--the people > with mysterious mechanical sympathy that never break anything but > still stand on podiums, and the mid-pack folks that can break the > ears off a brass donkey. It's a talent, it's not a conscious decision. > > Mechanics, who also race, tend to have a gentle driving style because they know and think about what it takes to rebuild. Mike Belfer had a smooth gentle style and drove that way. Mike Cataldo, Belfer's racing partner, was the hot shoe in their paddock. He went faster, but then he didn't have to repair the race car. Those of us who don't wrench never really get that. I've seen several Jack Drews in-car video races. Jack's a front runner and I am always amazed at how smooth he drives. Same thing with John Harkness. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillB at bnj.com Sat Sep 22 07:31:30 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:31:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Subject: Re: gearbox legality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I hope you didn't misunderstand, Hardy, I treasure the gearbox you built for me, I consider it cheap at the price, and I have nothing but respect for your experience, your skill and your knowledge. On Sep 22, 2007, at 2:42 AM, Catpusher at aol.com wrote: > Hi FOT and Bill, > > I will have a real response later, as it is very late here; but > just in case Continental drops an aircraft tomorrow: > I had no distractions whilst working on BB's gearboxes, not even > radio; and they were shipped before > requested. I was very impressed that he asked for the very best > that I could build. > It is also fun to hear thoughts about my workshop. No new > customers requested. > > Hardy > > In a message dated 9/21/2007 8:08:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot- > request at autox.team.net writes: > And for what it's worth, my Hardy > Prentice-built CR box shifts at least as fast as my dog box, and > snicks into gear like a Ferrari transmission. But you need to wait > months for Hardy to watch enough television to build one (he stones > the gears while he watching TV) > > > > See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. From billsohl at optonline.net Sat Sep 22 07:59:34 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:59:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] One-Lap TR-250 In-Reply-To: <380-22007952114250178@M2W037.mail2web.com> References: <380-22007952114250178@M2W037.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <3D442CF719594A6299869B2F6FFE1E72@SohlPC> Terrific, I co-drove the 250 with Charles in the '88 event. We finished 15th overall of some 50+ entrants. While there was no special recognition for the fact, we were the highest finishing 2 person entrant...most entrants being 3 person teams. The One-Lap route that year covered 8300 miles in 8 days. Cheers, Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER I will ask Charles... Original Message: ----------------- From: Bill Sohl billsohl at optonline.net Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:18:46 -0400 To: N197TR4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net, Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER It would be great too if Charles (TRF) was able to bring along the '68 TR-250 "One Lap" car that was run in the 86, 87 and 88 one lap events. Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: ; Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:02 PM Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > FoT List: > > I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > > He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of > their > major event in September of next year. > > Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and > Running of the Original Street Course. > > Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and > our > Grand Marshall. > > The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace > Car > for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > > We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to > Jack > Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > > It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an > indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > > Regards, > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billsohl at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft. Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From henry at henryfrye.com Sat Sep 22 08:27:19 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:27:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACF@server.Triumph.local> I guess it is apparent I don't live and breath the SVRA rules. I have no reason to, with the exception of the engine, my car prep is very basic. The point I was trying to make is I find no issue with the Triumph gearbox. If you build it right and drive it right, it will last. I am sure my gearbox is crude compared to one built by somebody that really knows what they are doing, but it works for me. It shifts slow, it leaks a little oil, but it gets the job done. I understand that because it works for me, that does not mean it will work for everybody. But all the same, I do think since a majority of TR drivers are running the Triumph box successfully, those that invest in the alternate boxes are copping out. Interesting side note, the gearbox rule is found in the General Rules and Regs, so it applies to all SVRA cars, not specifically Triumphs. > -----Original Message----- > From: JWoesvra at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > > This transmission rule has been in effect for ten years. Do > you guys ever read the stuff I print and post? I guess you > don't, Henry...oops. From henry at henryfrye.com Sat Sep 22 08:45:05 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:45:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FAD0@server.Triumph.local> Bill, All good points. While you say we can't get any useful NEW parts, that does not mean we can't find good parts. The only parts that came from the usual parts suppliers in my race gearbox are the seals and gaskets. And guess what, it leaks... I guess since my only experience racing is with my TR4, I don't think it is unreasonable to need to go through a gearbox every couple years. Those who have raced reliable iron probably view that as ridiculous! Cheers > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Babcock [mailto:billb at bnj.com] > Sent: September 21, 2007 5:41 PM > To: Henry Frye > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > > This is one of those rare occasions when I don't agree with > you Henry. No doubt deliberate shifting is the answer to > longevity, and no doubt the cost of not shifting deliberately > should modify behavior. But it doesn't. There are those folks > that can get around a track pulling everything out of a car > without grinding a gear. And those that can't. You see it at > every level of racing--the people with mysterious mechanical > sympathy that never break anything but still stand on > podiums, and the mid-pack folks that can break the ears off a > brass donkey. It's a talent, it's not a conscious decision. > > The TR gearbox is painfully fragile and very expensive to > optimize. > There's fewer of them every day (it's like COBOL > programmers-- thousands will die this year). Even when you > have a really superbly assembled TR box it's life-span in > even a 140 HP TR is relatively short, and there's no useful new parts. > > IMNSHO the idea is to keep racing these cars, not to price > that foolish act beyond the means of the average folks. I'm > all in favor of the compromises that do that. And for what > it's worth, my Hardy Prentice-built CR box shifts at least as > fast as my dog box, and snicks into gear like a Ferrari > transmission. But you need to wait months for Hardy to watch > enough television to build one (he stones the gears while he > watching TV) and when you crate the transmission you might as > well use ten dollar bills for packing material instead of > newspaper, 'cause that's about what it will take. The dog > box is an economy measure (at least that's the story I told > Diane, and I'm sticking with it). From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sat Sep 22 08:53:55 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 07:53:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality References: Message-ID: <002301c7fd28$66ba19e0$0501000a@Chowdown> John Hornbostel must be a smooth driver too. The M. Belfer gearbox has been in the car since at least 1989 and is still going strong. (24 race weekends) hope i didn't jinx it! ~Steve B ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Cc: Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 6:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > In a message dated 09/21/2007 4:42:14 PM Central Daylight Time, > billb at bnj.com > writes: > > >> This is one of those rare occasions when I don't agree with you >> Henry. No doubt deliberate shifting is the answer to longevity, and >> no doubt the cost of not shifting deliberately should modify >> behavior. But it doesn't. There are those folks that can get around a >> track pulling everything out of a car without grinding a gear. And >> those that can't. You see it at every level of racing--the people >> with mysterious mechanical sympathy that never break anything but >> still stand on podiums, and the mid-pack folks that can break the >> ears off a brass donkey. It's a talent, it's not a conscious decision. >> >> > > Mechanics, who also race, tend to have a gentle driving style because they > know and think about what it takes to rebuild. Mike Belfer had a smooth > gentle > style and drove that way. Mike Cataldo, Belfer's racing partner, was the > hot > shoe in their paddock. He went faster, but then he didn't have to repair > the > race car. > > Those of us who don't wrench never really get that. I've seen several > Jack > Drews in-car video races. Jack's a front runner and I am always amazed at > how > smooth he drives. Same thing with John Harkness. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From scypher at usa.com Sat Sep 22 09:28:26 2007 From: scypher at usa.com (Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer)) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:28:26 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox In-Reply-To: <46F49C37.8000108@cyberspeedway.net> References: <46F49C37.8000108@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <0E19F35A-DA7D-4451-8A34-CD5F615B3B76@usa.com> Production GCR authorized modifications D.4.a.1 still reads 4 speed + OD = 4 speed unless the cars spec line allows it....Other categories may be different... Not that I wouldn't mind trying a 5spd....but I don't have an exemption on my spec line like the EP class triumphs do..... Thanks -S Scott Cypher SCCA # 362573 #57 HP Spitfire 1500 From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Sat Sep 22 10:35:12 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:35:12 -0500 Subject: [Fot] test Message-ID: <000001c7fd36$8c95b030$8d20b348@blake1> Testing an email filter From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Sat Sep 22 09:55:27 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:55:27 -0700 Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] Message-ID: <46F53AEF.4080307@cyberspeedway.net> I stand corrected. Sorry about that. I broke a cardinal rule of a tech inspector - consult the GCR not your memory. Have any Spitfire guys petitioned the Club Racing Board for a 5 speed? Citing the TR6 as a precedent is a BIG foot in the door. It does away with that "philosophy of class" stonewalling. Greg Lund -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:28:26 -0400 From: Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer) To: greg CC: FOT LIST References: <46F49C37.8000108 at cyberspeedway.net> Production GCR authorized modifications D.4.a.1 still reads 4 speed + OD = 4 speed unless the cars spec line allows it....Other categories may be different... Not that I wouldn't mind trying a 5spd....but I don't have an exemption on my spec line like the EP class triumphs do..... Thanks -S Scott Cypher SCCA # 362573 #57 HP Spitfire 1500 From fpspitfire at insightbb.com Sat Sep 22 10:12:41 2007 From: fpspitfire at insightbb.com (fpspitfire at insightbb.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:12:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] In-Reply-To: <46F53AEF.4080307@cyberspeedway.net> References: <46F53AEF.4080307@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: The Big TR's (and MGB, and a few others) were allowed 5 speeds because every other car in EP was given a 5 speed, this might have also coincided with the combination of C/D/E production. There is no precedence in the small bore classes for gearboxes other than the original forward speeds. This was evident when they did a carte blanche move of the MGB to FP a couple years ago. The original move received much badness (me included as I was running F at the time) and the decision was made to remove the 5 speed allowance for the MGB. FWIW, I don't think a 5 speed is necessary...the 5th gear would be 1st and it would be a pit/paddock gear and nothing more. It might help save the clutch a little bit, but I wouldn't use it on the track. Aaron ----- Original Message ----- From: greg Date: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:59 Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] To: FOT LIST > I stand corrected. Sorry about that. I broke a > cardinal rule of a > tech inspector - consult the GCR not your memory. Have any > Spitfire guys > petitioned the Club Racing Board for a 5 speed? Citing the TR6 > as a > precedent is a BIG foot in the door. It does away with that > "philosophy > of class" stonewalling. > > Greg Lund > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox > Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:28:26 -0400 > From: Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer) > To: greg > CC: FOT LIST > References: <46F49C37.8000108 at cyberspeedway.net> > > Production GCR authorized modifications D.4.a.1 still reads > 4 speed + OD = 4 speed unless the cars spec line allows it....Other > categories may be different... > > Not that I wouldn't mind trying a 5spd....but I don't have an > exemption on my spec line like the EP class triumphs do..... > > Thanks > -S > > Scott Cypher > SCCA # 362573 > #57 HP Spitfire 1500 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > fpspitfire at insightbb.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Sat Sep 22 10:14:37 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:14:37 EDT Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: "But all the same, I do think since a majority of TR drivers are running the Triumph box successfully, those that invest in the alternate boxes are copping out." If one does his homework & has the ability & budget to allow, there are a few gearbox options that are better shifting, reliable, better weights (including rotating), & have better ratios. That's an ADVANTAGE, period, especially in the hands of a good driver. I've said it many times, this is exactly what happened to SCCA production (albeit for some different reasons) & drove the costs to be competitive out of reach for the average guy/gal. At a certain point, it's just a Triumph-facsimile. Glen with Stanpart gearboxes ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad range of racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own interpretation of "vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & their job is to keep everybody happy. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 22 10:49:50 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <639156.15095.qm@web57614.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad range of racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own interpretation of "vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & their job is to keep everybody happy. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Sat Sep 22 11:35:45 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:35:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] In-Reply-To: References: <46F53AEF.4080307@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <46F55271.8080809@cyberspeedway.net> I agree. We never considered a 5 speed for the 6. We ran a Mag case Jerico with Kas's old close ratio splits. Some tracke we only used 3 of the 4 gears. BTW the Mag case Jerico is only about 5 pounds more than the TR6 box. The trouble is the shift linkage intrudes on the left side and reduces leg room drastically. Rod wore a big kneepad on his right leg to keep the bruises down. If I did this again I would look at rotating the box 90 degrees and using the MVE shifter. I would also use the thin qualifying gearsets to reduce the weight and rotating mass. Jericos are all over Ebay now. Greg Lund fpspitfire at insightbb.com wrote: > The Big TR's (and MGB, and a few others) were allowed 5 speeds because every other car in EP was given a 5 speed, this might have also coincided with the combination of C/D/E production. > > There is no precedence in the small bore classes for gearboxes other than the original forward speeds. This was evident when they did a carte blanche move of the MGB to FP a couple years ago. The original move received much badness (me included as I was running F at the time) and the decision was made to remove the 5 speed allowance for the MGB. > > FWIW, I don't think a 5 speed is necessary...the 5th gear would be 1st and it would be a pit/paddock gear and nothing more. It might help save the clutch a little bit, but I wouldn't use it on the track. > > Aaron > ----- Original Message ----- > From: greg > Date: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:59 > Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] > To: FOT LIST > >> I stand corrected. Sorry about that. I broke a >> cardinal rule of a >> tech inspector - consult the GCR not your memory. Have any >> Spitfire guys >> petitioned the Club Racing Board for a 5 speed? Citing the TR6 >> as a >> precedent is a BIG foot in the door. It does away with that >> "philosophy >> of class" stonewalling. >> >> Greg Lund >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox >> Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:28:26 -0400 >> From: Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer) >> To: greg >> CC: FOT LIST >> References: <46F49C37.8000108 at cyberspeedway.net> >> >> Production GCR authorized modifications D.4.a.1 still reads >> 4 speed + OD = 4 speed unless the cars spec line allows it....Other >> categories may be different... >> >> Not that I wouldn't mind trying a 5spd....but I don't have an >> exemption on my spec line like the EP class triumphs do..... >> >> Thanks >> -S >> >> Scott Cypher >> SCCA # 362573 >> #57 HP Spitfire 1500 >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> fpspitfire at insightbb.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fpspitfire at insightbb.com Sat Sep 22 13:02:33 2007 From: fpspitfire at insightbb.com (fpspitfire at insightbb.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 14:02:33 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> <1D27710E-D176-43BF-AFBE-61E66698A5C8@bnj.com> <46F44016.2080208@dfn.com> <008001c7fc9f$2fb047f0$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: Date: Friday, September 21, 2007 21:37 Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality To: Bob Cc: mdporter at dfn.com,Bill Babcock ,Young Randall ,fot at autox.team.net > FWIW... > I run a Gearbox that looks almost identical to the Spitfire box > on the outside. However, it is an aluminium case with > Hewland Mk9 gearsets and dog engagment inside. It uses a > modified input, output and layshaft and is far beefier than > anything else out there. Plus you get the added bonus of > being able to select any ratios you want. > > If you have questions contact me. > > Not sure if that type of conversion is legal in vintage, but it > sure is in SCCA :) > > aaron > > Aaron Johnson > #8 (for now) HP Spitfire 1500 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bob > Date: Friday, September 21, 2007 17:31 > Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > To: mdporter at dfn.com, Bill Babcock > Cc: Young Randall , fot at autox.team.net > > > This GT6 has a T50 5 speed so can't say much about the others > > (besides the > > others are much larger and heavier than the T50). However, > they > > did modify > > the front of the T50 case to accept a larger input shaft ball > > bearing > > assembly in the later gearboxes which was supposed to help. > When > > buying > > spare parts (which are readily available if you know where to > > look) you need > > to know which box you have. > > > > I have looked inside 100K gearboxes and 50K gearboxes. > Bearings > > show little > > or no wear in either. Even the syncro's are still good and > > Granny drove the > > car for 20 years. > > > > Used gearboxes are everywhere for $150-$200. Really good ones > > from Japan are > > $500-$1000. A variety of close ratio gear sets are available > if > > you look > > hard > > . > > I know I will get hammered for saying this.....but most of us > > are just > > wannabe drivers anyway (me included) and how much advantage > will > > the gearbox > > really give you. It will sure keep you on the track longer and > > seeing the > > cars on the track is really the fun for alot of us. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Michael Porter" > > To: "Bill Babcock" > > Cc: ; "Young Randall" > > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 > 6:05 PM > > Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > > > > > > > Bill Babcock wrote: > > >> Toyota gearboxes are as common as belly buttons, and most have > > >> minimal wear on them. The Japanese have interesting > licensing and > > >> inspection laws that ensure the domestic cars turn over > frequently.> >> The drivetrains are frequently exported to the > US. It would be > > >> unusual to rebuild one--you can get a replacement for next to > > >> nothing. I paid a hundred bucks for two from 2TG toyotas-- > of course > > >> that was four years ago. I pulled them apart to check the typical > > >> wear areas and they were indistinguishable from new. From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sat Sep 22 13:41:45 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 14:41:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <639156.15095.qm@web57614.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <639156.15095.qm@web57614.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200709221942.l8MJg5sd256700@ns3.geneseo.net> No, we're just shifting into high gear........... At 11:49 AM 9/22/2007, Ernest Husmann wrote: >Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? > > >Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad range of >racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own interpretation of >"vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & their job is >to keep everybody happy. > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com >ehusmann53 at yahoo.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > >--------------------------------- > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sat Sep 22 13:59:08 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 13:59:08 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions Message-ID: <000401c7fd53$09c33750$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Can anyone suggest a good plug for my car ? I'm just short of 11:1 compresson, MSD 7AL-2 ignition, MSD HVC-2 coil D spec cam & stock strombergs. MSD suggests .050 gap for this set up & CR regardless of the plug type. Does this sound right ? Thanks again, Jim Gray From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sat Sep 22 15:05:53 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 17:05:53 EDT Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] Message-ID: fpspitfire at insightbb.com Wrote: BTW the Mag case Jerico is only about 5 pounds more than the TR6 box. The trouble is the shift linkage intrudes on the left side and reduces leg room drastically. Rod wore a big kneepad on his right leg to keep the bruises down. If I did this again I would look at rotating the box 90 degrees and using the MVE shifter. I would also use the thin qualifying gearsets to reduce the weight and rotating mass. Jericos are all over Ebay now. Greg Lund So, convert your left-hooker Triumph back to the Right-Hand Steer that it was designed to be all along, end of problem! As another advantage, if that pesky flywheel should ever come loose, then they inavariably head for the Left side footwell... And what does it matter which side of the car the steering is on if it is a track only car? Everyone else is (usually) going in the same direction! Even if racecaR is the same spelled forwards or backwards! Regards Leon Triumph Vitesse Cv, Right-Hand Steer! From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sat Sep 22 15:50:59 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:50:59 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser failures Message-ID: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> I'm trying to get through to the Mallory tech people to share our frustration with them, but in the meantime I uncovered their document 1484M which is too long to attach but I will excerpt it: IF THE POINTS BURN UP OR THE CONDENSER FAILS FREQUENTLY: 1.Condenser failure is often due a grounding problem. Make sure surfaces are free of grease, oil, etc 2. If the condenser needs changing, make sure that the bracket is changed at the same time. The brackets are basically a one-use part. They are designed to scratch through the rust preventative coating on the condenser when it is installed. Scuffing off this coating will guarantee a good ground. 3. -- grounds 4. A simple ground strap from the distributor body to the block can solve the problem. The distributor clamp is not a reliable ground. Also, interestingly, a section entitled IF THE POINTS ARE CONTINUALLY OUT OF ADJUSTMENT 1. lateral movement of the shaft means the distributor has to be rebuilt 2. Confirm that the point set is not designed for racing only with excessive spring tension. This increases rubbing block wear even when properly lubricated. Huh. Ididn't know there were two series of points. uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 22 17:35:35 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <200709221942.l8MJg5sd256700@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <189720.65800.qm@web57603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> It's amazing how these threads get off the subject so quickly. This one started Thursday morning with Alan asking for advice on TR6 gearboxes but quickly turn to a discussion related to rules regarding car prep. It's fine for a short time but we're not going to change the rules on the FoT mail list; at least I don't think we have that much power? Enjoy, E. PS. Would that be 5th gear, 4th gear overdrive, or are we now running 6-speeds? Hey I'm not a purist. "Jack W. Drews" wrote: No, we're just shifting into high gear........... At 11:49 AM 9/22/2007, Ernest Husmann wrote: >Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? > > >Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad range of >racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own interpretation of >"vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & their job is >to keep everybody happy. > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com >ehusmann53 at yahoo.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > >--------------------------------- > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. From billb at bnj.com Sat Sep 22 18:02:35 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 20:02:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <189720.65800.qm@web57603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <189720.65800.qm@web57603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Clearly you need to change your mental metaphor for the FOT. It's like a bunch of racers at the bar in Siebken's The topics might start from a rational observation--like "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door". And quickly transform into a discussion of whether or not it is morally reprehensible to use a Mallory distributor. It's a good thing. And of course we have the power. All we have to do is universally agree on something. I'm not holding my breath. On Sep 22, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Ernest Husmann wrote: > It's amazing how these threads get off the subject so quickly. > This one started Thursday morning with Alan asking for advice on > TR6 gearboxes but quickly turn to a discussion related to rules > regarding car prep. It's fine for a short time but we're not going > to change the rules on the FoT mail list; at least I don't think we > have that much power? > > Enjoy, > > E. > > PS. Would that be 5th gear, 4th gear overdrive, or are we now > running 6-speeds? Hey I'm not a purist. > > "Jack W. Drews" wrote: > No, we're just shifting into high gear........... > > At 11:49 AM 9/22/2007, Ernest Husmann wrote: > >Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? > > > > > >Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad > range of > >racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own > interpretation of > >"vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & > their job is > >to keep everybody happy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's new at http:// > www.aol.com > >ehusmann53 at yahoo.com > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > uncle jack > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > > > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. From billbab at mac.com Sat Sep 22 07:52:34 2007 From: billbab at mac.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:52:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Subject: Re: gearbox legality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4169A5BF-C905-420D-A519-247C24B29E1E@mac.com> A little more clarification. I'm a writer. Worse yet I'm a guy who learned to write by writing advertising--in other words I BS'd for a living. Even though I don't do it for money any more I automatically fluff up facts to create mental pictures that illustrate a point, and the point I was making was that good TR transmissions are rare, expensive, and take a lot of time to build--which makes them less a solution for racers who are making hard decisions about where to spend their bucks. You did tell me that you liked to deburr the gears while you watched television, but I certainly wasn't implying distraction--just that it takes a lot of tedious work to make one of these boxes work so well. If I even momentarily hurt your feelings then I am crushed. You are one of my heros. On Sep 22, 2007, at 9:31 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I hope you didn't misunderstand, Hardy, I treasure the gearbox you > built for me, I consider it cheap at the price, and I have nothing > but respect for your experience, your skill and your knowledge. > > On Sep 22, 2007, at 2:42 AM, Catpusher at aol.com wrote: > >> Hi FOT and Bill, >> >> I will have a real response later, as it is very late here; but >> just in case Continental drops an aircraft tomorrow: >> I had no distractions whilst working on BB's gearboxes, not even >> radio; and they were shipped before >> requested. I was very impressed that he asked for the very best >> that I could build. >> It is also fun to hear thoughts about my workshop. No new >> customers requested. >> >> Hardy >> >> In a message dated 9/21/2007 8:08:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot- >> request at autox.team.net writes: >> And for what it's worth, my Hardy >> Prentice-built CR box shifts at least as fast as my dog box, and >> snicks into gear like a Ferrari transmission. But you need to wait >> months for Hardy to watch enough television to build one (he stones >> the gears while he watching TV) >> >> >> >> See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. From mlcooknj at msn.com Sat Sep 22 19:49:29 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:49:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: To Bill B- I'm glad you wrote that other message stating that you are a writer. "bandoleer of bachelorettes" is quite a metaphor. Maybe instead of arguing the merits of which gearboxes will stand up best to the worst shifting, we can discuss the moral aspects of stuffing young ladies into the pockets of a cartridge belt and wearing them. Mike Cook ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 8:16 PM To: Ernest Husmann Cc: fot at autox.team.net; Fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality Clearly you need to change your mental metaphor for the FOT. It's like a bunch of racers at the bar in Siebken's The topics might start from a rational observation--like "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door". And quickly transform into a discussion of whether or not it is morally reprehensible to use a Mallory distributor. It's a good thing. And of course we have the power. All we have to do is universally agree on something. I'm not holding my breath. On Sep 22, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Ernest Husmann wrote: > It's amazing how these threads get off the subject so quickly. > This one started Thursday morning with Alan asking for advice on > TR6 gearboxes but quickly turn to a discussion related to rules > regarding car prep. It's fine for a short time but we're not going > to change the rules on the FoT mail list; at least I don't think we > have that much power? > > Enjoy, > > E. > > PS. Would that be 5th gear, 4th gear overdrive, or are we now > running 6-speeds? Hey I'm not a purist. > > "Jack W. Drews" wrote: > No, we're just shifting into high gear........... > > At 11:49 AM 9/22/2007, Ernest Husmann wrote: > >Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? > > > > > >Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad > range of > >racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own > interpretation of > >"vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & > their job is > >to keep everybody happy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's new at http:// > www.aol.com > >ehusmann53 at yahoo.com > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > uncle jack > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > > > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. mlcooknj at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sat Sep 22 21:06:17 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 23:06:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50FBCA58-BCEA-4FFD-83E1-3D0478BAEFA4@bnj.com> Not really a metaphor. Those who were at Siebkins during the spring race (I think it was an SVRA one, but I'm sure someone will set me straight if I was wrong) may be acquainted with the bandolier of bachelorettes. A fine bevy of young ladies showed up wearing strangely colored wigs with a chaperone who seemed to be more likely to get into deep trouble than her charges. They danced like wild druids, held BS Levy up when he did a kind of matlock-style stage dive into their midst, and performed a chair dance on one of the mechanics in the middle of the dance floor. Then returned to Green Bay, leaving a trail of broken hearts. On Sep 22, 2007, at 9:49 PM, michael cook wrote: > To Bill B- > > I'm glad you wrote that other message stating that you are a > writer. "bandoleer of bachelorettes" is quite a metaphor. Maybe > instead of arguing the merits of which gearboxes will stand up best > to the worst shifting, we can discuss the moral aspects of stuffing > young ladies into the pockets of a cartridge belt and wearing them. > > Mike Cook > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Babcock > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 8:16 PM > To: Ernest Husmann > Cc: fot at autox.team.net; Fubog1 at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > > Clearly you need to change your mental metaphor for the FOT. It's > like a bunch of racers at the bar in Siebken's The topics might start > from a rational observation--like "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of > bachelorettes just walked in the door". And quickly transform into a > discussion of whether or not it is morally reprehensible to use a > Mallory distributor. > > It's a good thing. > > And of course we have the power. All we have to do is universally > agree on something. I'm not holding my breath. > > On Sep 22, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Ernest Husmann wrote: > > > It's amazing how these threads get off the subject so quickly. > > This one started Thursday morning with Alan asking for advice on > > TR6 gearboxes but quickly turn to a discussion related to rules > > regarding car prep. It's fine for a short time but we're not going > > to change the rules on the FoT mail list; at least I don't think we > > have that much power? > > > > Enjoy, > > > > E. > > > > PS. Would that be 5th gear, 4th gear overdrive, or are we now > > running 6-speeds? Hey I'm not a purist. > > > > "Jack W. Drews" wrote: > > No, we're just shifting into high gear........... > > > > At 11:49 AM 9/22/2007, Ernest Husmann wrote: > > >Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? > > > > > > > > >Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > > ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad > > range of > > >racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own > > interpretation of > > >"vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & > > their job is > > >to keep everybody happy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's new at http:// > > www.aol.com > > >ehusmann53 at yahoo.com > > >Fot mailing list > > >Fot at autox.team.net > > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. > > >_______________________________________________ > > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net > > >Fot mailing list > > >Fot at autox.team.net > > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > uncle jack > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > > No Virus Found In This Message > > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > > > > > > Got a little couch potato? > > Check out fun summer activities for kids. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > mlcooknj at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Robertten1 at aol.com Sat Sep 22 23:14:59 2007 From: Robertten1 at aol.com (Robertten1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 01:14:59 EDT Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser failures Message-ID: Amici, This is an old topic and I feel a need to confirm what the Mallory site is suggesting. I had a bit of a discussion with a friend of mine whom is a electronics wizard, by trade. He said the first fault of any condensor failure would be due to a poor ground or lack of. My inquiry was brought about over the decision to go back to a points type ignition, that being a Mallory unit. After hearing Lang's problem of one condensor failure after another with his Mallory I became conserned with going from one problematic ignition system to another. I converted anyways, bought a couple extra condensors but, have had no problems what-so-ever with my Mallory. Several inspections and several tests with a dwell meter have shown a very reliable system. I'm also using a MSD Soft-touch Rev-limiter which has proven a reliable compliment to the Mallory. To sum it up ... Good Grounding !! add an extra as the Mallory site recommends. Bob T. '64 Spit GT autocrosser PS my Mallory is 6 yrs old ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sun Sep 23 02:43:51 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 03:43:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Re: gearbox legality Message-ID: <200709230844.l8N8iBdN359396@ns3.geneseo.net> >Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 03:38:24 -0500 >To: Ernest Husmann >From: "Jack W. Drews" >Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > >I agree that the subject was well thrashed, but at least it was on a >subject this list was intended for, instead of some of the subjects >discussed ad nauseum that really should be on the "big" Triumph >list. It provided some emails good for forwarding to VSCDA officers >who don't monitor these lists. One could argue that installing a >different transmission for better reliability is no different than >installing a Mallory distributor, the only purpose of which is to >replace Lucas stuff. Hey, all Lucas pieces can be made to work for a >little while. > >Ditto Southwick axles. We could force everybody to replace rear >axles every third race, just like Kastner did, to keep from rolling >over. His cars were pretty reliable doing things like that. Why >can't we do the same thing? If a car a year rolls over and nobody is >hurt, is it a small price to pay for authenticity? > >At 06:35 PM 9/22/2007, you wrote: >>It's amazing how these threads get off the subject so quickly. > >uncle jack uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From Fubog1 at aol.com Sun Sep 23 04:16:27 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 06:16:27 EDT Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: In a message dated 9/22/2007 8:17:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door" I'm having trouble with the mental image but it has a nice ring to it... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From tlizzard at msn.com Sun Sep 23 08:03:30 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:03:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality References: Message-ID: As long as the calibre is not too large its all good... Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: Fubog1 at aol.com To: billb at bnj.com ; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 6:16 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality In a message dated 9/22/2007 8:17:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door" I'm having trouble with the mental image but it has a nice ring to it... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Sun Sep 23 08:13:03 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:13:03 EDT Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality diverted to bob thread Message-ID: "bandolier of bachelorettes" well to take this one a step further...it just begs the question... are they on stripper clips??? Glen sorry but somebody HAD to ask... In a message dated 9/23/2007 10:03:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tlizzard at msn.com writes: As long as the calibre is not too large its all good... Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: _Fubog1 at aol.com_ (mailto:Fubog1 at aol.com) To: _billb at bnj.com_ (mailto:billb at bnj.com) ; _ehusmann53 at yahoo.com_ (mailto:ehusmann53 at yahoo.com) Cc: _fot at autox.team.net_ (mailto:fot at autox.team.net) Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 6:16 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality In a message dated 9/22/2007 8:17:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, _billb at bnj.com_ (mailto:billb at bnj.com) writes: "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door" I'm having trouble with the mental image but it has a nice ring to it... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 23 09:20:22 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:20:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Message-ID: FoT, I am looking for someone to write a progressive series of 'press releases' over the next 10 months...about three should do it. This event has some real magic associated with it. We are not as organized at the MG guys, but we can still look good. Ideally, the writer of the press release will also be an attendee. Thanks, Joe Alexander From JWoesvra at aol.com Sun Sep 23 09:33:27 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:33:27 EDT Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Message-ID: In a message dated 9/23/2007 11:20:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N197TR4 at cs.com writes: FoT, I am looking for someone to write a progressive series of 'press releases' over the next 10 months...about three should do it. This event has some real magic associated with it. We are not as organized at the MG guys, but we can still look good. Ideally, the writer of the press release will also be an attendee. Thanks, Joe Alexander Take a look at the Elva reunion release that we just posted. _http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/weblinks/EJEN-77AJFT?OpenDocument_ (http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/weblinks/EJEN-77AJFT?OpenDocument) You might also look at the press releases that MGVR guys do. To: Friends of MGVR MG Vintage Racers Press Release ************************************ Vintage Collier Cup MG Race FIVE MGs Win Awards It all began in 1985 with SVRA's Collier Cup race for MGs at their Zippo Vintage Grand Prix, and it has steadily gathered momentum over the years. At first there was only the "Collier Cup" award for this race, which gets awarded to a MG racer in the race - voted by the MG racers there - as best representing the MG vintage racing spirit. Then came the "Denver Cornett Jr. Trophy" for the first overall MG in the race, and the "T Cup" for the first place T series MG in the race. NAMGAR later added the "Bucher-Decker Trophy" for the first MGA. And now to round out the awards, this year the MG Car Club - Western New York Center added the "Bill Glanville Memorial Cup" for the first MG Midget in the race. And Bill's widow Suzanne made its inaugural presentation. This is just a reflection of how popular this race has grown over 22 years. And although this year's event didn't see the best weather, that didn't slow down the MG enthusiasm and racing. 37 MGs of all types showed up to have a go of it this September at Watkins Glen, and when the checkered flag fell the honors went to the following MG racers: -Collier Cup - Bill Shields, Pa, MGB -Denver Cornett Jr. Trophy - John Targett, Oh, MGB -T Cup - Jeff Brown, Pa, MGTD -Bucher-Decker Trophy - Joe Tierno, N.Y., MGA -Bill Glanville Memorial Cup - Gregg Kuzuhowski, N.J., MG Midget John commented on receiving his trophy "I had an emotional reaction to receiving Denver's Cup. For some reason he repeatedly use to say that he wanted me to win his trophy" (Denver passed away in 2006). Gregg reflected "I was honored to accept the Glanville trophy". The MGTD that Jeff raced was the former Bob Colaizzi MG that won the first Vintage Collier Cup in 1985. And Joe Tierno's MGA is the same MGA that Bob Bucher won the 1957 Collier Cup with 50 years ago! It just keeps getting better and better! ****************** end For Immediate Release and Publication -Please run this article in your publication -This press release may be edited to meet publisher's needs -Please forward this press release to anyone else who might have interest in it Photo below is of Gregg Kuzuhowski with the Bill Glanville Memorial Cup, ,with Suzanne Glanville, widow of Bill Glanville, next to him. Photo may be used with article as long as photo credit is given: "Pietrowicz Photo". MG Vintage Racers Greg Prehodka Publicity Coordinator September 23, 2007 E-mail: _MGracer53 at aol.com_ (mailto:MGracer53 at aol.com) MGVR on the web: MGVR.org ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 23 09:47:05 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:47:05 EDT Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Message-ID: Thanks Jack!....great resource material. > In a message dated 9/23/2007 11:20:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > N197TR4 at cs.com writes: > > >> FoT, >> >> I am looking for someone to write a progressive series of 'press releases' >> over the next 10 months...about three should do it. >> >> This event has some real magic associated with it. >> >> We are not as organized at the MG guys, but we can still look good. >> >> Ideally, the writer of the press release will also be an attendee. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Joe Alexander > > > Take a look at the Elva reunion release that we just posted. > > http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/weblinks/EJEN-77AJFT?OpenDocument > > You might also look at the press releases that MGVR guys do. > > To: Friends of MGVR > > MG Vintage Racers > Press Release > > ************************************ > > Vintage Collier Cup MG Race > FIVE MGs Win Awards > > It all began in 1985 with SVRA's Collier Cup race for MGs at their Zippo > Vintage Grand Prix, and it has steadily gathered momentum over the years. > At first there was only the "Collier Cup" award for this race, which gets > awarded to a MG racer in the race - voted by the MG racers there - as best > representing the MG vintage racing spirit. Then came the "Denver Cornett Jr. Trophy > " for the first overall MG in the race, and the "T Cup" for the first place > T series MG in the race. NAMGAR later added the "Bucher-Decker Trophy" for > the first MGA. And now to round out the awards, this year the MG Car Club - > Western New York Center added the "Bill Glanville Memorial Cup" for the first > MG Midget in the race. And Bill's widow Suzanne made its inaugural > presentation. This is just a reflection of how popular this race has grown over 22 > years. And although this year's event didn't see the best weather, that didn't > slow down the MG enthusiasm and racing. 37 MGs of all types showed up to > have a go of it this September at Watkins Glen, and when the checkered flag > fell the honors went to the following MG racers: > > -Collier Cup - Bill Shields, Pa, MGB > -Denver Cornett Jr. Trophy - John Targett, Oh, MGB > -T Cup - Jeff Brown, Pa, MGTD > -Bucher-Decker Trophy - Joe Tierno, N.Y., MGA > -Bill Glanville Memorial Cup - Gregg Kuzuhowski, N.J., MG Midget > > John commented on receiving his trophy "I had an emotional reaction to > receiving Denver's Cup. For some reason he repeatedly use to say that he wanted > me to win his trophy" (Denver passed away in 2006). Gregg reflected "I was > honored to accept the Glanville trophy". The MGTD that Jeff raced was the > former Bob Colaizzi MG that won the first Vintage Collier Cup in 1985. And Joe > Tierno's MGA is the same MGA that Bob Bucher won the 1957 Collier Cup with > 50 years ago! It just keeps getting better and better! > > ****************** end > > > For Immediate Release and Publication > -Please run this article in your publication > -This press release may be edited to meet publisher's needs > -Please forward this press release to anyone else who might have interest in > it > > Photo below is of Gregg Kuzuhowski with the Bill Glanville Memorial Cup, > ,with Suzanne Glanville, widow of Bill Glanville, next to him. Photo may be > used with article as long as photo credit is given: "Pietrowicz Photo". > > > > From Cofrog at aol.com Sun Sep 23 10:20:43 2007 From: Cofrog at aol.com (Cofrog at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:20:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers Message-ID: I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange thickness on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake manifold flange where both mount to the head. Some tabs have been welded to the flange of the header where the mounting points are to accommodate the thickness discrepancy But I am experiencing cracks in the intake manifold and blame this on the above. I did some track time last week to test a new motor and another intake manifold crack appeared. I have applied some JB Weld to it and loosened the mounting hardware by it. Hoping this "fix" will hold for the RMVR event nest weekend. Any input? Has anyone had any experience with the headers that the big three sell? Or does anyone have a good set of headers that they want to sell? Thanks, Dan Forgey ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 23 10:33:53 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:33:53 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers References: Message-ID: <001001c7fdff$95868f60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Dan, My first car had a setup like this. It used standard wing spacers (or whatever they are called) with weld added on one side. That worked fine, but it was a short runner intake. You have probably already addressed this but just in case; the problem of cracking usually shows up with the use of the long runner intake without support on the bottom like the original exhaust manifold. You see some pretty creative gussets out there. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 11:20 AM Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers >I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange thickness > on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake > manifold flange where both mount to the head. Some tabs have been welded > to the > flange of the header where the mounting points are to accommodate the > thickness > discrepancy But I am experiencing cracks in the intake manifold and > blame > this on the above. > > I did some track time last week to test a new motor and another intake > manifold crack appeared. I have applied some JB Weld to it and loosened > the > mounting hardware by it. Hoping this "fix" will hold for the RMVR event > nest > weekend. Any input? > > Has anyone had any experience with the headers that the big three sell? > Or > does anyone have a good set of headers that they want to sell? > > Thanks, > > Dan Forgey > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jhassall at blacksburg.net Sun Sep 23 10:36:34 2007 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:36:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46F69612.5050804@blacksburg.net> Cofrog at aol.com wrote: > I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange thickness > on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake > manifold flange where both mount to the head. Some tabs have been welded to the > flange of the header where the mounting points are to accommodate the thickness > discrepancy But I am experiencing cracks in the intake manifold and blame > this on the above. > > I did some track time last week to test a new motor and another intake > manifold crack appeared. I have applied some JB Weld to it and loosened the > mounting hardware by it. Hoping this "fix" will hold for the RMVR event nest > weekend. Any input? > > Has anyone had any experience with the headers that the big three sell? Or > does anyone have a good set of headers that they want to sell? Dan, I bought TRF's tubular headers years ago and HATE them. Shoddy workmanship, leaky welds, flange thickness half that of the intake (as you noted), gross mounting hole mismatches, the list goes on. I didn't discover the problems until long after TRF would accept them back, so I bit the bullet. In retrospect, they should have gone 1) to metal recyclers or 2) ebay. I worked around the flange thickness problem by welding a block of steel to the exhaust stud clamps, so I *think* I have uniform pressure on each side. Time will tell.... hth jim -- J.C. Hassall Blacksburg VA 64 TR4 in autox preparation 95% finished, 90% to go From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 23 13:07:43 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 14:07:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c7fe15$05c826c0$8d20b348@blake1> Try Stahl. http://www.stahlheaders.com/ When I was asking around about 6 months ago, some on the list recommended them. My project has stalled somewhat so I have not purchased yet. I am still looking also if anyone has a set to sell. Thanks, Greg -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Cofrog at aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 11:21 AM To: FOT at Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange thickness on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake manifold flange where both mount to the head. Some tabs have been welded to the flange of the header where the mounting points are to accommodate the thickness discrepancy But I am experiencing cracks in the intake manifold and blame this on the above. I did some track time last week to test a new motor and another intake manifold crack appeared. I have applied some JB Weld to it and loosened the mounting hardware by it. Hoping this "fix" will hold for the RMVR event nest weekend. Any input? Has anyone had any experience with the headers that the big three sell? Or does anyone have a good set of headers that they want to sell? Thanks, Dan Forgey ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ablake2 at austin.rr.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Sun Sep 23 13:40:56 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:40:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers Message-ID: In a message dated 9/23/2007 12:21:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Cofrog at aol.com writes: Has anyone had any experience with the headers that the big three sell? Or does anyone have a good set of headers that they want to sell? Ken Gillanders BFE headers work well, last a long time, & are a bit pricey, but well worth it in the long run. Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From emanteno at comcast.net Sun Sep 23 14:40:40 2007 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:40:40 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers Message-ID: <092320072040.3702.46F6CF4800088CA300000E762205886014970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: Cofrog at aol.com > I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange thickness > on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake > manifold flange where both mount to the head. I bought a set of headers from Ken at BFE in 98, and it and my (reinforced) intake manifold have been trouble free since. The headers fit great, requiring no diddling to install. The (long runner) intake manifold is reinforced on the top of each runner, and has never shown any sign of trouble. NFI, Irv Korey From Robertten1 at aol.com Sun Sep 23 14:49:20 2007 From: Robertten1 at aol.com (Robertten1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:49:20 EDT Subject: [Fot] Why MEN don't Write Advice Columns Message-ID: ____________________________________ >>>> Subject: WHY MEN DO NOT WRITE ADVICE COLUMNS >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dear Walter: >>>>> I hope you can help me here. The other day I set off for work leaving >>>>> my husband in the house watching the TV as usual. I hadn't gone more than >>>>> a few hundred yards down the road when my engine conked out and the car >>>> shuddered to a halt. I walked back home to get my husband's help. When I got >>>>> home I couldn't believe my eyes. He was parading in front of the wardrobe >>>>> mirror dressed in my underwear and high-heel shoes, and he was wearing my >>>>> make up. >>>>> I am 32, my husband is 34 and we have been married for twelve years. >>>>> When I confronted him, he tried to make out that he had dressed in my >>>>> lingerie because he couldn't find his own underwear. But when I asked him about >>>>> the make up, he broke down and admitted that he'd been wearing my clothes >>>>> for six months. I told him to stop or I would leave him. He was let go >>>>> from his job six months ago and he says he has been feeling increasingly >>>>> depressed and worthless. I love him very much, but ever since I gave him the >>>> ultimatum he has become increasingly distant. I don't feel I can get through to >>>>> him anymore. Can you please help? >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Mrs. Lusk >>>>> >>>>> Dear Mrs. Lusk: >>>>> A car stalling after being driven a short distance can be caused by a >>>>> variety of faults with the engine. Start by checkin g that there is no >>>> debris in the fuel line. If it is clear, check the jubilee clips holding the >>>> vacuum pipes onto the inlet manifold. If none of these approaches solves the >>>>> problem, it could be that the fuel pump itself is faulty, causing low >>>>> delivery pressure to the carburetor float chamber. I hope this helps. >>>>> Walter ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From kaskas at cox.net Sun Sep 23 15:32:37 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 14:32:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers References: <092320072040.3702.46F6CF4800088CA300000E762205886014970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <008001c7fe29$432ec000$5717c548@RW> When fitting the long tube inlet manifold it pays to also fab up a bracket that runs between the two carb flanges and a support post that fits down to the cylinder block. This is pretty easy to make up with a piece of 3/8" or 1/2" steel tube and welded or bolted to the sheet metal fabricated cross piece that connects the bottom of the two carb flanges. Clear as mud? Well anyway, I did this trick and it saves the manifold and is also a good idea when fitting the Weber carbs as you can then the weight off the manifolds. The steel tube can be bolted up to a steel tab held by the pan bolts. It works pretty well. It must of course be custom made as each header is different and you need to clear for access to the cylinder block side. Having a threaded end allows you to adjust the brace to pick up the carb weight onto the brace/block. Most times the brace cannot be taken straight down to the block but must be off to the side some to clear the headers.There are several way to do this, and the manifolds really appreciate the help. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 Headers > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: Cofrog at aol.com > >> I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange >> thickness >> on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake >> manifold flange where both mount to the head. > > I bought a set of headers from Ken at BFE in 98, and it and my > (reinforced) intake manifold have been trouble free since. The headers fit > great, requiring no diddling to install. The (long runner) intake manifold > is reinforced on the top of each runner, and has never shown any sign of > trouble. > NFI, > Irv Korey > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From trhouse at greenapple.com Sun Sep 23 18:38:22 2007 From: trhouse at greenapple.com (Tom Householder) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:38:22 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Mike Fatsi Message-ID: Any one got current Contact info for Mike. he races out of Virginia From dave at microworks.net Sun Sep 23 18:52:16 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 17:52:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stupid poll response Message-ID: <20070924005530.MHWU23261.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> If results on a poll on the ITV-F1 page continue like they are you can certainly discount the knowledge of the VAST majority of it's readers. The question is "Would F1 drivers benefit from professional coaching?" Current votes are: 6 for Yes (35.29%), 9 for No (52.94%) and 2 for Not Sure (11.76%). That means the 64.7% of the participants of that poll couldn't find their own ass with both hands. http://www.itv-f1.com What is also funny/ironic is that the top aticle on the site is Sir Jackie saying how stupid it is that so few F1 Drivers utilize a coach. http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40779 Top Gear had a recent episode featuring Sir Jackie coaching James May around Oulton Park (in a TVR) and bettering his time by 20 sec. I grabbed that video off You Tube and used it in my DE1 class presentation at Phoenix International yesterday. http://youtube.com/watch?v=roCFoKaUf1A What would you pay to have Sir Jackie coach you? Anyone want to buy my first board to fund my lesson with him? HeHe... From billsohl at optonline.net Sun Sep 23 19:42:10 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:42:10 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I nominate Mike Cook for the task...if he is up to it. Mike is an FOT lister and his PR/Marketing professional skills I'm sure would greatly enhance the media distribution. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 11:20 AM Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" > FoT, > > I am looking for someone to write a progressive series of 'press releases' > over the next 10 months...about three should do it. > > This event has some real magic associated with it. > > We are not as organized at the MG guys, but we can still look good. > > Ideally, the writer of the press release will also be an attendee. > > Thanks, > > Joe Alexander > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billsohl at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 23 20:45:00 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:45:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Message-ID: Bill, Thanks for volunteering Mike. :-) Particularly, since no one else has stepped forward, this would be delightful. He certainly is qualified, and the fact that he owns a few TR3A Driven Trophies from the Glen, it certainly enhances his position. I'll supply most of the information, if he will craft them into something cogent. Joe Alexander P.S. The next guy we will be looking for, is "Shirt Man". > I nominate Mike Cook for the task...if he is up to it. > Mike is an FOT lister and his PR/Marketing professional skills > I'm sure would greatly enhance the media distribution. > > Cheers, > Bill > From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 23 21:10:12 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:10:12 EDT Subject: [Fot] SPONSOR(S) WANTED FOR THE FOT TRIUMPH RACE AT THE GLEN Message-ID: Looking for one major sponsor for the stand alone Triumph Race at the Glen in 2008. Or a couple non-competing business Sponsors. The money will go entirely to the FoT. The money will be used for paying expenses (more like defraying expenses). I refuse to collect donations any longer. (It's like taking in laundry for free, with lots of complaints about the service. Embarrassing and Thankless) Your Business Name(s) will be included in all press releases and SVRA documentation, not to mention all stories submitted for publication. You know, something like, "The BFE Triumph Grand Prix". Or "The Classic Motorsport Triumph Challenge". If you want to discuss it, contact me. Remember, if you step forward now, you get about 10-11 months of advertising mileage out of it. And, I dont want to hear from anyone.....that I didnt ask. Joe Alexander N197tr4 at cs.com From tony at tonydrews.com Sun Sep 23 22:22:36 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:22:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions In-Reply-To: <000401c7fd53$09c33750$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> References: <000401c7fd53$09c33750$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Message-ID: <20070924042328.27F941879D7@autox.team.net> A bunch of the TRactor motor folks run the NGK BP7HS with good success. Normally gapped to something like 0.030" but may work OK at 0.050" as MSD suggests. I have similar compression (different cam, carbs, and ignition though) and they work well for me. We've used them with many different cams and several carbs - Strombergs, SU's and Webers. - Tony Drews At 02:59 PM 9/22/2007, James Gray wrote: >Can anyone suggest a good plug for my car ? I'm just short of 11:1 >compresson, MSD 7AL-2 ignition, MSD HVC-2 coil >D spec cam & stock strombergs. >MSD suggests .050 gap for this set up & CR regardless of the plug type. >Does this sound right ? >Thanks again, >Jim Gray From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 24 06:37:34 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 08:37:34 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions Message-ID: > A bunch of the TRactor motor folks run the NGK BP7HS with good > success. Normally gapped to something like 0.030" but may work OK at > 0.050" as MSD suggests. I have similar compression (different cam, > carbs, and ignition though) and they work well for me. We've used > them with many different cams and several carbs - Strombergs, SU's and > Webers. > > - Tony Drews > I went to a NAPA store expecting to order these plugs. It turned out that it is a common plug used in GOLF CARS. FORE! From billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 24 07:31:18 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:31:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions In-Reply-To: <20070924042328.27F941879D7@autox.team.net> References: <000401c7fd53$09c33750$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> <20070924042328.27F941879D7@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <098DE802-0030-44C9-8FD0-36824F715904@bnj.com> As Tony says, BP7HS is a fine plug and it's NGK, which is good for me because it's one of the few plug nomenclatures I understand. If they look a little hot to you when you read them you can go half a heat range colder to B7HC (hard to get, try a motorcycle shop) or if you foul them try half a heat range hotter B6HC. You can also use the Iridium or Platinum equivalent. I think the platinum is BP7HV. The higher voltage your ignition is running enables you to run .050" and you do want as wide a plug gap as your system can handle, so that should be fine. On Sep 24, 2007, at 12:22 AM, Tony Drews wrote: > A bunch of the TRactor motor folks run the NGK BP7HS with good > success. Normally gapped to something like 0.030" but may work OK at > 0.050" as MSD suggests. I have similar compression (different cam, > carbs, and ignition though) and they work well for me. We've used > them with many different cams and several carbs - Strombergs, SU's > and Webers. > > - Tony Drews > > At 02:59 PM 9/22/2007, James Gray wrote: >> Can anyone suggest a good plug for my car ? I'm just short of 11:1 >> compresson, MSD 7AL-2 ignition, MSD HVC-2 coil >> D spec cam & stock strombergs. >> MSD suggests .050 gap for this set up & CR regardless of the plug >> type. >> Does this sound right ? >> Thanks again, >> Jim Gray > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Mon Sep 24 07:36:37 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:36:37 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Amphicar wanted Message-ID: <006501c7feaf$f00eeb70$1342a8c0@semperon3400> And now for something completely different. Is there anyone on these lists having an Amphicar they're willing to part with? I know at least one/two of us that has one in custody! The phone is a Connecticut exchange... Not me, I know nothing more! WANTED: Amphicar Amphibious vehicle, any year or condition except restored. (860)668-7716 Clark Clark W. Nicholls "Reality... It's not what you think." From mlcooknj at msn.com Mon Sep 24 08:11:43 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:11:43 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Message-ID: Thanks a lot Bill! :-) Hey, I appreciate the recognition but let's not go overboard here. I am over-committed on regular work so I need to think about this. Joe, let's you and I talk separately about what you have in mind. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:45 PM To: billsohl at optonline.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Bill, Thanks for volunteering Mike. :-) Particularly, since no one else has stepped forward, this would be delightful. He certainly is qualified, and the fact that he owns a few TR3A Driven Trophies from the Glen, it certainly enhances his position. I'll supply most of the information, if he will craft them into something cogent. Joe Alexander P.S. The next guy we will be looking for, is "Shirt Man". > I nominate Mike Cook for the task...if he is up to it. > Mike is an FOT lister and his PR/Marketing professional skills > I'm sure would greatly enhance the media distribution. > > Cheers, > Bill > mlcooknj at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 24 08:20:08 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:20:08 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's also a common motorcycle plug for two stroke Yamahas (which aren't that common anymore--I don't remember the last time I saw a ring-ding on the street) though it's usually in B7HS guise. BP is projected tip, which runs a little hotter than standard tip. Each full step down in heat range changes the tip temperature about 100 degrees C. Half a heat range step is about 50 degrees C (gee, really?) and projected tip is about 20 degrees hotter than non- projected. The ideal temperature band is about 100 degrees wide, though permissible operation is from 500 to 850 degree C. No way for us amateurs to measure tip temperature other than staring at plugs, but you can tell a lot from that if you do a clean plug chop. The Champion spark plug guru, Bobby whatshisname could tell you what you had for dinner from your plugs. We motorcycle racers used to run Champions just so he would look at our plugs. Pulling plugs from a motor that made it's way back to the paddock is OK for determining you're in the ballpark for heat range, but ineffective for determining mixture. You want to se a clean white tip with just a little coloration of the porcelain, no blistering, and the metal bits need to have retained their sharpness--that happens at about 750-800C. The porcelain starts looking blistered at 850C and the metal starts losing it's sharp edges (melting) at 900C. Unless you have an Iridium plug, which is just fine at over 1000C. If your engine is pumping oil or your mixture is very rich you'll never see that temperature regardless of the heat range. Assuming everything is in the ballpark then once you have established the heat range that's best for you, you can start adjusting your mixture by reading the base of the insulator. That's why the serious tuners use lighted magnifying glasses to look at plugs. You want to look at the circle of insulator at the bottom, and what you want is light brown color after you have driven the car with the throttle setting you're testing (usually WFO) as much as you can. When you get close to the hot pit entrance, you flip off the ignition at full throttle, push in the clutch and coast to the pit wall where your expert crew chief awaits. Or if you're like me, you crawl out and look at the plugs yourself, my crew consists of Sam the Gay Dog--Diane now signs in as "Personal Chef" on my crew sheet. Oh, incidentally, the Iridium plugs for TR3/4 race cars are BPR7HIX. You should be able to order these. Expensive, but they have the interesting virtue of lasting almost forever. You can probably use them for ten years of racing with no change in performance. Just don't put them in a motor that's way too rich or oiling heavily. They are magic for weak ignitions--you can run them with a dinky gap and they won't foul because the electrodes are so skinny. On Sep 24, 2007, at 8:37 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: >> A bunch of the TRactor motor folks run the NGK BP7HS with good >> success. Normally gapped to something like 0.030" but may work OK at >> 0.050" as MSD suggests. I have similar compression (different cam, >> carbs, and ignition though) and they work well for me. We've used >> them with many different cams and several carbs - Strombergs, SU's >> and >> Webers. >> >> - Tony Drews >> > I went to a NAPA store expecting to order these plugs. It turned > out that it > is a common plug used in GOLF CARS. FORE! > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From hottr6 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 24 10:01:53 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:01:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Shipping cars Message-ID: Amici, For those of us that have to transport cars long-distances, I thought I would relate my experiences in shipping Rags from Maryland to New Mexico. I do not have a trailer or a tow rig, so had to use a company to ship cars. I insisted on a enclosed trailer (having been burnt previously when I shipped my Pantera on an open transport across the Rockies in Winter and a snow storm, and the transporter left the drivers window down). I requested several quotes and decided to go with Fedex Custom Critical (yeah, Fedex ships cars!). There were penalties for having a non-running car, so the cost came to about $2K. But this was not door-to-door. The rig is 85' long and could not negotiate the narrow streets near the DC-MD border where I lived, so I had to flatbed the car to meet the truck. At the other end, the rig would get stuck in the canyon I am in, so I am renting a storage unit and Rags is living there for the time being. As stated, the rig was huge. Dennis, the driver, was a petrol-head and loves cars. The trailer with all its hydraulics and bluetooth enabled ramps/jacks etc alone cost $160K. Very impressive. Got the car loaded. 6 days later, it arrives absolutely unmarked and spotless. Even though I drained the fluids from Rags, it of course had to leave its mark in the rig, but all the car spaces in the rig had oil collection places so no harm done. All in all, a great experience. I would highly recommend Fedex Custom Critical should you ever need to ship your pride and joy. Shane Ingate in New Mexico _________________________________________________________________ Its the Windows Live Hotmail. you love  on your phone! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/mobilehotmail/default.mspx?WT.mc_ID=MobileHMTagline2 From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Sep 24 10:15:09 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:15:09 EDT Subject: [Fot] Shipping cars Message-ID: Amici... I think I know where that came from. FedEx bought PASSPORT TRANSPORT, previously started and owned by Bob Pass, who was a very active vintage racer years ago. I think he was even a part owner of SVRA at one time. I remember he had a cute daughter who worked the SVRA registration counter. His headquarters was in St. Louis, and he was instrumental in several Joe Marchetti events being held at the old Gateway circuit (named the GATEWAY HISTORICS at the time). Neat events, but the headquarters hotel (where a concourse was held and Ole Blue won a trophy) was 45 minutes away from the track. A great hotel, in a neat area, but too far from the track. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Sep 24 10:47:33 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:47:33 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Shipping cars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2BCD71E6-962B-4184-A5D6-CE9CF8D9DBEC@earthlink.net> Welcome to N.M. Shane [and Rags]. Hope you'll make Southwest Motorsport [swms.org] your new home club. We are having our last event of the season October 12th-14th. Redcoats on the Rio Grande will feature a All British race on Saturday. Come on out and say Hi and bring Rags if it's ready. Again, welcome to New Mexico - The Land of Entrapment. I'll look forward to meeting you some time soon. Greg Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 24, 2007, at 10:01 AM, Shane Ingate wrote: > Amici, > > For those of us that have to transport cars long-distances, I > thought I > would relate my experiences in shipping Rags from Maryland to New > Mexico. > > I do not have a trailer or a tow rig, so had to use a company to > ship cars. > I insisted on a enclosed trailer (having been burnt previously when I > shipped my Pantera on an open transport across the Rockies in > Winter and a > snow storm, and the transporter left the drivers window down). I > requested > several quotes and decided to go with Fedex Custom Critical (yeah, > Fedex > ships cars!). There were penalties for having a non-running car, > so the > cost came to about $2K. > > But this was not door-to-door. The rig is 85' long and could not > negotiate > the narrow streets near the DC-MD border where I lived, so I had to > flatbed > the car to meet the truck. At the other end, the rig would get > stuck in the > canyon I am in, so I am renting a storage unit and Rags is living > there for > the time being. > > As stated, the rig was huge. Dennis, the driver, was a petrol-head > and > loves cars. The trailer with all its hydraulics and bluetooth enabled > ramps/jacks etc alone cost $160K. Very impressive. Got the car > loaded. 6 > days later, it arrives absolutely unmarked and spotless. Even > though I > drained the fluids from Rags, it of course had to leave its mark in > the rig, > but all the car spaces in the rig had oil collection places so no > harm done. > > All in all, a great experience. I would highly recommend Fedex Custom > Critical should you ever need to ship your pride and joy. > > Shane Ingate in New Mexico > > _________________________________________________________________ > Its the Windows Live Hotmail. you love  on your phone! > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/mobilehotmail/default.mspx? > WT.mc_ID=MobileHMTagline2 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > lunkercars at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Sep 24 10:54:28 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:54:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Shipping cars References: Message-ID: <000d01c7fecb$92947ed0$0501000a@Chowdown> I used Fedex (custom critical) formerly passport, to ship my TR3 from Toledo to Glendale, CA. 2500 bucks, skilled drivers and it only took about 4 days. The Triumph was too narrow for their open transporter which would have cost half the price. Also, we put a few extra cyl heads in the car and some various other spares. They have GPS and are always glad to tell you exactly where your car is currently located on the map. It wasn't cheap but good to go with an insured and bonded company to ship my TR. After 40 years of open trailering, the car deserved a nice ride. Unfortunately it cost almost as much to ship the spare engine, trans, diff, and all the other goodies seperately through Yellow Freight. ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Shipping cars > Amici... > > I think I know where that came from. FedEx bought PASSPORT TRANSPORT, > previously started and owned by Bob Pass, who was a very active vintage > racer years > ago. I think he was even a part owner of SVRA at one time. I remember he > had > a cute daughter who worked the SVRA registration counter. His > headquarters > was in St. Louis, and he was instrumental in several Joe Marchetti events > being > held at the old Gateway circuit (named the GATEWAY HISTORICS at the time). > Neat events, but the headquarters hotel (where a concourse was held and > Ole > Blue won a trophy) was 45 minutes away from the track. A great hotel, in > a neat > area, but too far from the track. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Sep 24 10:59:02 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:59:02 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions References: Message-ID: <002901c7fecc$357f09d0$0501000a@Chowdown> Y'all probably know this but these guys are great: www.sparkplugs.com They even throw in a coupla stickers for your toolbox! ~Steve From REK46 at aol.com Mon Sep 24 11:16:07 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:16:07 EDT Subject: [Fot] TOPEKA Message-ID: Sorry to break the thread,but does anyone have some first hand info on best places to stay in Topeka area, accessible to Heartland Park ...a nice bar and eatery would be a plus.? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From JWoesvra at aol.com Mon Sep 24 12:17:45 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:17:45 EDT Subject: [Fot] Shipping cars Message-ID: In a message dated 9/24/2007 12:02:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hottr6 at hotmail.com writes: I requested several quotes and decided to go with Fedex Custom Critical (yeah, Fedex ships cars!). There were penalties for having a non-running car, so the cost came to about $2K. But this was not door-to-door. The rig is 85' long and could not negotiate the narrow streets near the DC-MD border where I lived, so I had to flatbed the car to meet the truck. At the other end, the rig would get stuck in the canyon I am in, so I am renting a storage unit and Rags is living there for the time being. As stated, the rig was huge. Dennis, the driver, was a petrol-head and loves cars. The trailer with all its hydraulics and bluetooth enabled ramps/jacks etc alone cost $160K. Very impressive. Got the car loaded. 6 days later, it arrives absolutely unmarked and spotless. Even though I drained the fluids from Rags, it of course had to leave its mark in the rig, but all the car spaces in the rig had oil collection places so no harm done. All in all, a great experience. I would highly recommend Fedex Custom Critical should you ever need to ship your pride and joy. The reason FEDEX does such a great job is that they bought out Passport Transport from Robert Pass. It is the same trucks, drivers, etc. just different paint. It may cost a little more, but you certainly don't have to worry. Robert started this industry and FedEx carries on his legacy. No one ever did it better. Jack Woehrle ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From trmarty at hotmail.com Mon Sep 24 18:05:24 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:05:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TOPEKA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I take it your there now? My son Jason is there co-driving a blue 2007 mini cooper s. Number 66 of 166. If you see him stop and introduce yourself as a fellow Fot'r. He probably can suggest something. Marty Sukey > From: REK46 at aol.com > Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:16:07 -0400 > To: colordog.1 at earthlink.net; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] TOPEKA > > Sorry to break the thread,but does anyone have some first hand info on best > places to stay in Topeka area, accessible to Heartland Park ...a nice bar and > eatery would be a plus.? > > > ************************************** > See what's new > at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > trmarty at hotmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _________________________________________________________________ More photos; more messages; more whatever  Get MORE with Windows Live Hotmail.. NOW with 5GB storage. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration _HM_mini_5G_0907 From mini at wi.rr.com Mon Sep 24 20:02:56 2007 From: mini at wi.rr.com (Richard Gehweiler) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:02:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality diverted to bob thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001d01c7ff18$34598b10$6400a8c0@home> Allen, You asked about TR6 gearboxes and you got "bandolier of bachelorettes"! Now look at what you started! Call me about a dog box. Richard Gehweiler mini at wi.rr.com 1.262.894.5460 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+mini=wi.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+mini=wi.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 9:13 AM To: tlizzard at msn.com; billb at bnj.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality diverted to bob thread "bandolier of bachelorettes" well to take this one a step further...it just begs the question... are they on stripper clips??? Glen sorry but somebody HAD to ask... In a message dated 9/23/2007 10:03:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tlizzard at msn.com writes: As long as the calibre is not too large its all good... Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: _Fubog1 at aol.com_ (mailto:Fubog1 at aol.com) To: _billb at bnj.com_ (mailto:billb at bnj.com) ; _ehusmann53 at yahoo.com_ (mailto:ehusmann53 at yahoo.com) Cc: _fot at autox.team.net_ (mailto:fot at autox.team.net) Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 6:16 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality In a message dated 9/22/2007 8:17:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, _billb at bnj.com_ (mailto:billb at bnj.com) writes: "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door" I'm having trouble with the mental image but it has a nice ring to it... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com mini at wi.rr.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu Mon Sep 24 21:02:17 2007 From: jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu (jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 23:02:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TOPEKA Message-ID: <380-2200792253217444@M2W022.mail2web.com> I'm writing this from the AmeriSuites in Topeka, 6021 SW 6th Street (785) 273-0066 about 20 minutes from the track- it's a pretty nice place, free breakfast, clean rooms with a little kitchen, cold AC, and internet access for no extra charge. I would NOT recommend the ValuePlace thats just a few minutes closer, 1801 SW Westport Road. We had reservations for ValuePlace that were canceled on us less than 24 hours prior to our trip because they "overbooked". As far as eating and drinking...there are many choices within just a few minutes of the hotel here, it's in a very built up area. We've only been to the Longhorn steak house so far, which was very good for a chain type place, I've also heard that O'Doolys pub and grill is very good although I have not been there YET. We are here for the SCCA Solo nationals, so far I've only seen one FOT here. I talked with Bob Lang (EP Ford Focus) for a few minutes at the Sunday test N tune. The MINI felt good for the Sunday test n tune, although today we realized that there were some issues with the freshly installed Koni's and the rears may not have been damping as they should have. We pulled them off the car today, and with a little help from Lee, the Koni guy, we were able to fix them so we should have a completely different and unfamiliar car for our competition days (Thursday and Friday). Unfortunately, I have yet to see a single Triumph here, just FOT guys competing in Non-Triumphs. Jason Sukey Original Message: ----------------- From: marty sukey trmarty at hotmail.com Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:05:24 -0400 To: rek46 at aol.com, colordog.1 at earthlink.net, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] TOPEKA I take it your there now? My son Jason is there co-driving a blue 2007 mini cooper s. Number 66 of 166. If you see him stop and introduce yourself as a fellow Fot'r. He probably can suggest something. Marty Sukey > From: REK46 at aol.com > Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:16:07 -0400 > To: colordog.1 at earthlink.net; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] TOPEKA > > Sorry to break the thread,but does anyone have some first hand info on best > places to stay in Topeka area, accessible to Heartland Park ...a nice bar and > eatery would be a plus.? > > > ************************************** > See what's new > at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > trmarty at hotmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _________________________________________________________________ More photos; more messages; more whatever  Get MORE with Windows Live Hotmail.. NOW with 5GB storage. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio n _HM_mini_5G_0907 jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com  Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft. Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From mini at wi.rr.com Mon Sep 24 21:16:42 2007 From: mini at wi.rr.com (Richard Gehweiler) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:16:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Trailers Message-ID: <002201c7ff22$82acc480$6400a8c0@home> We are looking to upgrade our trailer to something that will haul both Allen Washatko's #6 TR6 and my son's #18 Mini Cooper. We are using our current trailer to haul customer cars for my son Dan's British auto repair business (Yes Ernie another shameless plug for my kid's business) and the trailer is getting down right tired. Any recommendations as to which brands are good and which are not so good? Richard Gehweiler mini at wi.rr.com 1.262.894.5460 From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 24 21:35:43 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:35:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Trailers In-Reply-To: <002201c7ff22$82acc480$6400a8c0@home> References: <002201c7ff22$82acc480$6400a8c0@home> Message-ID: <000601c7ff25$26f8c960$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Here is what I did http://members.cox.net/spitlist/Trailer.htm Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Richard Gehweiler Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:17 PM To: Fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Trailers We are looking to upgrade our trailer to something that will haul both Allen Washatko's #6 TR6 and my son's #18 Mini Cooper. We are using our current trailer to haul customer cars for my son Dan's British auto repair business (Yes Ernie another shameless plug for my kid's business) and the trailer is getting down right tired. Any recommendations as to which brands are good and which are not so good? Richard Gehweiler mini at wi.rr.com 1.262.894.5460 spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Tue Sep 25 07:07:26 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 08:07:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] GT6 calipers? Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747160F2@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Anyone have a pair of good used GT6 calipers they could part with? I'm looking for something I can put on my street GT6. Scott B. From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 25 08:40:24 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:40:24 EDT Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event Message-ID: FoT, We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. I am looking for some additional information: Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if their names and emails are provided. Thanks, Joe Alexander From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 25 08:48:22 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:48:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Shirt Guy for WATKINS GLEN.... and Sponsors? Message-ID: FoT I think we have a "SHIRT GUY" AND A SUPPLIER FOR SHIRTS. This will be announced shortly. I have one or two potential sponsors that are interested enough to step forward and ask questions. The door is still open.... 1. Sponsor for the Kastner Cup Race. 2. Sponsors for Kastner Cup Shirts....if there is any interest we could put company logos on the back of the shirt. Thanks, Joe Alexander From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 25 09:02:09 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 08:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <221185.53374.qm@web57607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Very likely that I will show and be begging a crew pass. Time will tell if I show up with a race car. E. N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT, We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. I am looking for some additional information: Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if their names and emails are provided. Thanks, Joe Alexander ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 25 09:24:25 2007 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 08:24:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] GML at Columbus - Off Topic Message-ID: <650710.1973.qm@web83115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Amici, Earlier this summer, someone wrote of the GML that is going to be held this weekend at Rickebacker airport. Is there anyone from this list going? Thirty years ago this week, I signed in at RAFB and my wife and I decided that it would be a cool reason to go back to the base/airport. I have not yet completely ruled out taking the Spitfire, as it was in that car that we first pulled onto the base. Doug -- dmitchel at sbcglobal.net 1973 Spitfire - 32 years of ownership 1973 Stag From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Tue Sep 25 09:55:26 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:55:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] GT6 body tub Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7471617E@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Hey folks, I have a GT6 body shell that needs a new home. It's a Mk. III (squaretail), Damson in color, in pretty good shape. I can't find any significant rust on it. This bodyshell came from Texas by way of Arizona. I dragged it up here to Wisconsin with the intent of building a GT6 racer, but then Spitfires somehow started breeding like rabbits around me. I also have a GT6 bonnet in slightly less good condition, with some rust around the wheel arches (Midwestern car), but in otherwise decent condition. Scott B. From westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net Tue Sep 25 12:35:39 2007 From: westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net (westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:35:39 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event Message-ID: <092520071835.26558.46F954FB000236C0000067BE2158766755990E04D2069D@att.net> Joe: I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa Racing in Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to the Glen. I need about three other cars to make it very cost effective for transport and a crew. If any one is interested please contact me. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- > FoT, > > We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. > > I am looking for some additional information: > > Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? > > NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. > > Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if their > names and emails are provided. > > Thanks, > > Joe Alexander > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > westerneagleracing at att.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From koblinger at verizon.net Tue Sep 25 13:16:37 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:16:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event Message-ID: <6584549.3884311190747797647.JavaMail.root@vms226.mailsrvcs.net> I am going to register as a definite maybe. I really want to go to the Goodwood Revival next year and it usually falls on the same weekend. Failing that, or maybe in addition, my next choice will be the Glen. I've never been there and this seems like the perfect event. If so I'll be easy to recognize, I'm the one with the permanently attached "funny nose and glasses" combo carrying the big camera bag. Cheers, Kurt (I don't need no steenking lens cap!) Oblinger Various and sundry Triumphs. All disassembled for your closer inspection. >From: N197TR4 at cs.com >Date: 2007/09/25 Tue AM 09:40:24 CDT >To: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event >FoT, > >We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. > >I am looking for some additional information: > >Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? > >NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. > >Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if their >names and emails are provided. > >Thanks, > >Joe Alexander > > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Tue Sep 25 14:34:19 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:34:19 EDT Subject: [Fot] 45 DCOE Aux venturis Message-ID: Amici, Has anyone got some aux venturis for the 45 DCOE's sitting around? I need a half dozen 4.5's and no one has any in stock. Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 25 15:25:55 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:25:55 EDT Subject: [Fot] VSCDA's Fall Finale at MID-OHIO Message-ID: Amici... How many vintage TRIUMPHs plan to run VSCDA's Fall Finale event at MID-OHIO next month (October 12-14th, 2007)? I am aware of Dennis DeLap TR4, Bill Dentinger TR3, Henry Frye TR4, Jeff Snook TR3, Mark Wheatley TR4, and Bob Wismer TR4. There is a TONs and TONs of MGs entered. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From trmarty at hotmail.com Tue Sep 25 16:37:24 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:37:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Probably be a couple of the Sukey's showing up. Put me on the mailing list. Thanks, Marty trmarty at hotmail.com > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:40:24 -0400 > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event > > FoT, > > We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. > > I am looking for some additional information: > > Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? > > NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. > > Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if their > names and emails are provided. > > Thanks, > > Joe Alexander > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > trmarty at hotmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _________________________________________________________________ More photos; more messages; more whatever  Get MORE with Windows Live Hotmail.. NOW with 5GB storage. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration _HM_mini_5G_0907 From tr6nut at verizon.net Tue Sep 25 16:59:52 2007 From: tr6nut at verizon.net (Hugh Barber) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:59:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46F992E8.7030501@verizon.net> I am fairly sure I'll be there sans Triumph. Please add me to the list. Hugh Barber N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT, > > We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. > > I am looking for some additional information: > > Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? From tlizzard at msn.com Tue Sep 25 18:06:14 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:06:14 -0400 Subject: [Fot] GML at Columbus - Off Topic References: <650710.1973.qm@web83115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I will be there. Been looking forward to it for some time. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Mitchell To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: [Fot] GML at Columbus - Off Topic Amici, Earlier this summer, someone wrote of the GML that is going to be held this weekend at Rickebacker airport. Is there anyone from this list going? Thirty years ago this week, I signed in at RAFB and my wife and I decided that it would be a cool reason to go back to the base/airport. I have not yet completely ruled out taking the Spitfire, as it was in that car that we first pulled onto the base. Doug -- dmitchel at sbcglobal.net 1973 Spitfire - 32 years of ownership 1973 Stag _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Tue Sep 25 19:33:38 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:33:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008d01c7ffdd$44bbeb90$1342a8c0@semperon3400> I'll be there as a spy in the MG camp, crewing for my friend's MGTD... Add me to the list! Thanks, Clark W. Nicholls From billsohl at optonline.net Tue Sep 25 21:47:38 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:47:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <98BC34F8ABD6491CB458CE8090315114@SohlPC> Linda and I plan to be there with our TR-3A street car...thinking about entering it in the Downtown Car Show (Friday) or do the Glenora Run with it...and also have it at the track for the "gathering" and hopefully a track tour. I'll help get the word out locally tp the NJ Triumph Club and the Central PA club. Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:40 AM Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event > FoT, > > We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. > > I am looking for some additional information: > > Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than > drivers? > > NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. > > Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if > their > names and emails are provided. > > Thanks, > > Joe Alexander > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billsohl at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jsnook at wcnet.org Wed Sep 26 07:00:42 2007 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:00:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VSCDA's Fall Finale at MID-OHIO References: Message-ID: <008501c8003d$3f6f8f60$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> OK FOTers, we need some help here in Ohio to battle those pesky MGs! Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: BillDentin at aol.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:25 PM Subject: [Fot] VSCDA's Fall Finale at MID-OHIO Amici... How many vintage TRIUMPHs plan to run VSCDA's Fall Finale event at MID-OHIO next month (October 12-14th, 2007)? I am aware of Dennis DeLap TR4, Bill Dentinger TR3, Henry Frye TR4, Jeff Snook TR3, Mark Wheatley TR4, and Bob Wismer TR4. There is a TONs and TONs of MGs entered. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html jsnook_gmi at wcnet.org Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Sep 26 10:10:10 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:10:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] compression and leakdown Message-ID: <200709261610.l8QGAXke254790@ns3.geneseo.net> Has anybody taken compression and / or leakdown tests on a freshly prepared engine and compared them with the engine condition after a season of racing? uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 26 10:41:21 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:41:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] compression and leakdown In-Reply-To: <200709261610.l8QGAXke254790@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200709261610.l8QGAXke254790@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <9A9D2802-8A68-4202-83AD-2775AD5CF84D@bnj.com> I have a lot of compression testing data, I test compression whenever I have the plugs out and write it in my log, but unfortunately I don't have any indication of new engine vs end of season. I suspect leakdown testing would be better data anyway, and now that I have my own leakdown tester in the trailer I'll be gathering that information. On Sep 26, 2007, at 9:10 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote: > Has anybody taken compression and / or leakdown tests on a freshly > prepared engine and compared them with the engine condition after a > season of racing? > > uncle jack > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Wed Sep 26 10:48:20 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:48:20 EDT Subject: [Fot] compression and leakdown Message-ID: In a message dated 9/26/2007 12:11:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, vinttr4 at geneseo.net writes: Has anybody taken compression and / or leakdown tests on a freshly prepared engine and compared them with the engine condition after a season of racing? I try to watch them close. There are many variables re service life but usually the valves will leak before the rings will. Average fresh engine after run-in is usually 2-3%, some less. Once they get into 2 digit numbers I get concerned (race engine). Street engines will leak 30% or more & still run well... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Sep 26 11:29:19 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:29:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: <200709261729.l8QHTgjn260041@ns3.geneseo.net> The "normal" way to do this test is to set the piston at top dead center. But if you take the rocker assembly loose, then all the valves are closed. Doing it this way, cam position is eliminated as a factor. Then, has anybody checked leakdown in a TR wet sleeve engine at, say, top, half stroke, and bottom of stroke? uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From riverside at cedar-rapids.net Wed Sep 26 11:55:38 2007 From: riverside at cedar-rapids.net (riverside) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:55:38 -0500 Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question References: <200709261729.l8QHTgjn260041@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <010c01c80066$7393a820$e9178304@your55e5f9e3d2> I like about 1 inch down in the bore to 1.75. this is where it counts. OHC motors hard to loosen, but easy to see. full degree marks on the damper a big help art d ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack W. Drews" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 12:29 PM Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question > The "normal" way to do this test is to set the piston at top dead > center. But if you take the rocker assembly loose, then all the > valves are closed. Doing it this way, cam position is eliminated as a > factor. Then, has anybody checked leakdown in a TR wet sleeve engine > at, say, top, half stroke, and bottom of stroke? > > uncle jack > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > riverside at cedar-rapids.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.31/1031 - Release Date: > 9/26/2007 12:12 PM From billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 26 11:59:56 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:59:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question In-Reply-To: <200709261729.l8QHTgjn260041@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200709261729.l8QHTgjn260041@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <41F47424-FC6F-4F97-81CB-3CE074D26BFD@bnj.com> Nope, sounds like a lot of work. What are you getting at--you think the sleeves are wiggly? You're right. As I think Joe discovered when he was looking into restoring cylinders, you need a torque plate to bore or hone them. Even then, nothing says that the clamping pressure is the same, or that they distort evenly, or that heat cycles don't have a big effect (they do). I don't know how much it matters. But I do know that if you can keep a TR motor from sticking or overheating for the first four or five events, then the engine gets "happy" and lasts a long time. Purely subjective information, I know, but the motor in Peyote has more than 15 events--that's probably 50 practices, qualifiers, races and warmups. It's a very happy motor and I'm loathe to tear it down. It's got less than six percent leakdown on all four cylinders. On Sep 26, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote: > The "normal" way to do this test is to set the piston at top dead > center. But if you take the rocker assembly loose, then all the > valves are closed. Doing it this way, cam position is eliminated as a > factor. Then, has anybody checked leakdown in a TR wet sleeve engine > at, say, top, half stroke, and bottom of stroke? > > uncle jack > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 26 12:32:18 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:32:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: "As I think Joe discovered when he was looking into restoring cylinders, you need a torque plate to bore or hone them. " Bill, The method of clamping we have now replicates what we used in the JOHN DEERE factory for production liners. No use of Torque Plate. We did extensive testing with both Torque Plate and the Liner Clamping Fixture. Clamping Fixture was clearly superior for repeatability and cycle time. It is available for anyone's use. I can supply address to send liners to. I have no financial interest. Didnt want another level of cost if someone needed to use it. About $20-25/liner plus shipping. Allison, Iowa Joe Alexander Jesup, Iowa > As I think Joe discovered when > he was looking into restoring cylinders, you need a torque plate to > bore or hone them. Even then, nothing says that the clamping pressure > is the same, or that they distort evenly, or that heat cycles don't > have a big effect (they do). I don't know how much it matters. But I > do know that if you can keep a TR motor from sticking or overheating > for the first four or five events, then the engine gets "happy" and > lasts a long time. Purely subjective information, I know, but the > motor in Peyote has more than 15 events--that's probably 50 > practices, qualifiers, races and warmups. It's a very happy motor and > I'm loathe to tear it down. It's got less than six percent leakdown > on all four cylinders. > > From Fubog1 at aol.com Wed Sep 26 13:04:33 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:04:33 EDT Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: In a message dated 9/26/2007 2:33:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, N197TR4 at cs.com writes: We did extensive testing with both Torque Plate Joe I'm curious how thick is your torque plate? Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From Gt6steve at aol.com Wed Sep 26 13:36:03 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:36:03 EDT Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: I was gonna buy a torque plate for the sixes the other day. Would you believe $800.00? I'm back to watching for big pieces of stock... We did extensive testing with both Torque Plate Joe I'm curious how thick is your torque plate? Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From rikrock at aol.com Wed Sep 26 14:16:56 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:16:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed Message-ID: <8C9CE9151EB56C3-6D4-2B12@webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com> Amici, I'm not sure of the correct name, but what I'm looking for might be called the?diff gear carrier.? It's the part of?the Detroit?Locker?that contains all the gears you can't see when?unit is?assembled.? It's a cast piece, with a machined flange that the ring gear?attaches to.?This is for a TR4. Yeah, I know this is a long shot, but maybe, just maybe........ Thanks! Rich Rock Pottstown, PA ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From jaboruch at netzero.net Wed Sep 26 18:13:24 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 00:13:24 GMT Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed Message-ID: <20070926.201324.21392.0@webmail14.dca.untd.com> I have 2 cracked ones. Cracks are a common problem with these. If you find a good source, please let me know, since I can use one too. Joe(B) -- rikrock at aol.com wrote: Amici, I'm not sure of the correct name, but what I'm looking for might be called the?diff gear carrier.? It's the part of?the Detroit?Locker?that contains all the gears you can't see when?unit is?assembled.? It's a cast piece, with a machined flange that the ring gear?attaches to.?This is for a TR4. Yeah, I know this is a long shot, but maybe, just maybe........ Thanks! Rich Rock Pottstown, PA ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Vonage - Official Site $24.99/mo. for unlimited local and long distance calls! http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/JKFkuJO6WhWrohfY7sndT9wSZ9nHM9BQ DMPZ6oiIxG92zM8tJDm5HF/ From earthron at yahoo.com Wed Sep 26 19:16:02 2007 From: earthron at yahoo.com (Ron Jones) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer Message-ID: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, I would like to present a nomination to the group for a fellow Triumph racer. Daryll Clark has been racing his white TR3 #333 with VARA for several seasons. He lives Pine Mountain Club, CA near, and is friends with, Herman of transmission fame. Daryll has been improving his lap times greatly recently and really enjoying racing. Currently he suffering some down time as he caught 2nd gear instead of 4th during a recent race and sheared the flywheel bolts. Daryll started with his street TR3 and made it into what is now a full race car. With his "dry" sense of humor I'm sure he would make a great addition to the FOT group. Daryll's email is Alleycatrace at aol.com. Do I hear a second? Ron Jones 1963 TR4 Race Car 1958 TR3 almost ready for paint and reassembly --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. From alfetta95 at optonline.net Wed Sep 26 19:23:44 2007 From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (alfetta95 at optonline.net) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 01:23:44 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer In-Reply-To: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I second! Welcome Daryll Good Luck Todd Redmond TR3A TS 29341 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Jones Date: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:16 pm Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer To: FOT > Hi all, > > I would like to present a nomination to the group for a fellow > Triumph racer. Daryll Clark has been racing his white TR3 #333 > with VARA for several seasons. He lives Pine Mountain Club, CA > near, and is friends with, Herman of transmission fame. Daryll > has been improving his lap times greatly recently and really > enjoying racing. Currently he suffering some down time as he > caught 2nd gear instead of 4th during a recent race and sheared > the flywheel bolts. > > Daryll started with his street TR3 and made it into what is > now a full race car. With his "dry" sense of humor I'm sure he > would make a great addition to the FOT group. > > Daryll's email is Alleycatrace at aol.com. Do I hear a second? > > Ron Jones > 1963 TR4 Race Car > 1958 TR3 almost ready for paint and reassembly > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! > Travel. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > alfetta95 at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Wed Sep 26 19:36:30 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:36:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer References: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701c800a6$d4bebbe0$0501000a@Chowdown> I SECOND!!! Hey Daryll! Steve B 1962TR3B # 144 ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Jones" To: "FOT" Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 6:16 PM Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer > Hi all, > > I would like to present a nomination to the group for a fellow Triumph > racer. Daryll Clark has been racing his white TR3 #333 with VARA for > several seasons. He lives Pine Mountain Club, CA near, and is friends > with, Herman of transmission fame. Daryll has been improving his lap times > greatly recently and really enjoying racing. Currently he suffering some > down time as he caught 2nd gear instead of 4th during a recent race and > sheared the flywheel bolts. > > Daryll started with his street TR3 and made it into what is now a full > race car. With his "dry" sense of humor I'm sure he would make a great > addition to the FOT group. > > Daryll's email is Alleycatrace at aol.com. Do I hear a second? > > Ron Jones > 1963 TR4 Race Car > 1958 TR3 almost ready for paint and reassembly > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Wed Sep 26 19:55:35 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:55:35 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed References: <8C9CE9151EB56C3-6D4-2B12@webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <004501c800a9$7f7116d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Rick, Long shot may be optimistic. I just bought a "parts" TR4 Detroit Locker on eBay a few weeks ago for an embarrassing sum. I haven't disassembled it yet to see if I got a good or bad deal. Is your case worn in the machined surfaces for the carrier bearings? Good luck with the search.. If you find any other spare parts while hunting I am looking for some engagement springs. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed > Amici, > > I'm not sure of the correct name, but what I'm looking for might be called > the?diff gear carrier.? It's the part of?the Detroit?Locker?that contains > all the gears you can't see when?unit is?assembled.? It's a cast piece, > with a machined flange that the ring gear?attaches to.?This is for a TR4. > > Yeah, I know this is a long shot, but maybe, just maybe........ > > Thanks! > > Rich Rock > Pottstown, PA > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Wed Sep 26 19:58:58 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:58:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question References: Message-ID: <005d01c800a9$fa24d510$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Joe, Did this testing include the plate I sent you? Being as how it is around 2 inches thick I expected that it would work well. I like to know how it compares to the Deere method and what I am losing. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question > In a message dated 9/26/2007 2:33:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > N197TR4 at cs.com writes: > > We did extensive > testing with both Torque Plate > > > Joe I'm curious how thick is your torque plate? > Glen > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 26 20:39:56 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:39:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: In a message dated 9/26/2007 8:59:08 PM Central Daylight Time, rkramer3 at austin.rr.com writes: > Joe, > > Did this testing include the plate I sent you? Being as how it is around 2 > inches thick I expected that it would work well. I like to know how it > compares to the Deere method and what I am losing. > > Yes! I think the plate I have is around 2" thick, too....from Mordy Dunst. I have not measured it yet for Glen. You are not likely to be losing anything. Or very little. Or maybe it is even better when you get done. We had to try different torques and different settings on boring and honing equipment, including changing hone stones, to get the desired results. Very time consuming, to get it where we felt it was right. The 'production fixture' was eventually made and we got the results and repeatability much faster. At least all of the liners are pretty much the same. I use a standard head gasket, so I suspect there is not much crush on the rim and it may hold it's wall shape pretty well in assembly. Not very technical, but when it is simple and it works, that's usually a good sign. Our clamping on the entire skirt seems to stabilize the liner very well during boring and honing. Also, beats making a set up with an engine block and placing the torque plate on the liners with all of the fiddling with head bolts and nuts. Fast set up. I would never go back to the old way...but that's me. I stood around these boring and honing machines for hours and hours as an industrial engineer. I dont have perfect knowledge on any of this stuff, but it seems right to me. Joe Alexander From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 26 20:59:01 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:59:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Replacement to Silent-bloc on TR3A Steering Assembly Message-ID: FoT: TR2 3 3A 3B Owners & Racers I just completed a production run on a new design for the OEM rubber imbedded pivot pin. It is different than the original Silent-bloc design....hopefully a big improvement. No rubber from Taiwan and all of the resistence that goes with it. (Yes, I am aware of the Stainless Steel Pin and Bronze Bushing design that is available) This one is another design...similar but different.....hopefully as good or very close. Lower cost, in any case. Targeted at street TR3s distributed through one or more of the 'big three'. If you want to hear more, contact me directly for description and pictures. I have a pilot run done and looking for feedback. I thought about doing this for a very long time, and then got sufficient encouragement to follow through. Of course, I am going to install it on my own TR3A and study it for changes in steering effort and road feel. Joe A N197tr4 at cs.com From koblinger at verizon.net Wed Sep 26 21:04:18 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:04:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer In-Reply-To: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46FB1DB2.2010206@verizon.net> I'll third, or is it fourth? I hear his crew chief is pretty cute too. Welcome to Daryll and CC. And here is a pic of the man in action. http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8839/dctr3js2.jpg Cheers, Kurt O. Ron Jones wrote: >Hi all, > > I would like to present a nomination to the group for a fellow Triumph racer. Daryll Clark has been racing his white TR3 #333 with VARA for several seasons. He lives Pine Mountain Club, CA near, and is friends with, Herman of transmission fame. Daryll has been improving his lap times greatly recently and really enjoying racing. Currently he suffering some down time as he caught 2nd gear instead of 4th during a recent race and sheared the flywheel bolts. > > Daryll started with his street TR3 and made it into what is now a full race car. With his "dry" sense of humor I'm sure he would make a great addition to the FOT group. > > Daryll's email is Alleycatrace at aol.com. Do I hear a second? > > Ron Jones > 1963 TR4 Race Car > 1958 TR3 almost ready for paint and reassembly > > >--------------------------------- >Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gasket.works at verizon.net Thu Sep 27 01:58:11 2007 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (MDunst/Gasket Works) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 00:58:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <000801c800dc$26a1c440$1502a8c0@Belkin> So, it is For Sale (why buy one when you can buy three....) Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal mains and rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower of San Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. Original custom foamed security packaging. As some comedian said in the movie "Men in Black" ..."the best of the best of the best". The good news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day. The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00 with insured ground shipping included within continental USA. Fedex custom Critical next flight out service available at market rate -If you need to ask how much this costs you can't afford the crank to begin with. Pictures available upon request. Almost too pretty to use in tractor motor. It looks like it was made for some 4 cyl exotic with five main bearings. Christmas/Hanukah stocking stuffer. Happy Autumn M. Dunst www.headgasket.com Gasket Works USA, LLC 626.358.1616 Voice 626.628.3777 Fax GMT -8 Pacific From Fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 27 06:31:54 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 08:31:54 EDT Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: In a message dated 9/26/2007 10:40:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, N197TR4 at cs.com writes: > Joe, > > Did this testing include the plate I sent you? Being as how it is around 2 > inches thick I expected that it would work well. I like to know how it > compares to the Deere method and what I am losing. > > Yes! I think the plate I have is around 2" thick, too....from Mordy Dunst. I have not measured it yet for Glen. You are not likely to be losing anything. Or very little. Or maybe it is even better when you get done. We had to try different torques and different settings on boring and honing equipment, including changing hone stones, to get the desired results. Very time consuming, to get it where we felt it was right. I guess my point is that the plate for these engines has to be pretty stout, since the purpose of using it is a little different than on a conventional bore-in-block engine. My plate is 2 inches as well but, as we well know, it's a real PITA. Anything that does the job as well as or better than the torque plate would be a real good thing. Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Thu Sep 27 06:30:51 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 07:30:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <000801c800dc$26a1c440$1502a8c0@Belkin> References: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> <000801c800dc$26a1c440$1502a8c0@Belkin> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7471639F@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> << If you need to ask how much this costs you can't afford the crank to begin with. >> And when has THAT ever stopped one of us when a really trick part like this becomes available?? Scott B. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MDunst/Gasket Works Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:58 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot So, it is For Sale (why buy one when you can buy three....) Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal mains and rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower of San Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. Original custom foamed security packaging. As some comedian said in the movie "Men in Black" ..."the best of the best of the best". The good news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day. The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00 with insured ground shipping included within continental USA. Fedex custom Critical next flight out service available at market rate -If you need to ask how much this costs you can't afford the crank to begin with. Pictures available upon request. Almost too pretty to use in tractor motor. It looks like it was made for some 4 cyl exotic with five main bearings. Christmas/Hanukah stocking stuffer. Happy Autumn M. Dunst www.headgasket.com Gasket Works USA, LLC 626.358.1616 Voice 626.628.3777 Fax GMT -8 Pacific scott.barr at mccarty-law.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chasgee at aol.com Thu Sep 27 10:17:48 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 12:17:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <000801c800dc$26a1c440$1502a8c0@Belkin> References: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> <000801c800dc$26a1c440$1502a8c0@Belkin> Message-ID: <8C9CF391450E424-3F4-584E@webmail-db11.sysops.aol.com> That's more than it costs me to do a complete motor..... -----Original Message----- From: MDunst/Gasket Works To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 12:58 am Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot So, it is For Sale (why buy one when you can buy three....) Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal mains and rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower of San Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. Original custom foamed security packaging. As some comedian said in the movie "Men in Black" ..."the best of the best of the best". The good news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day. The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00 with insured ground shipping included within continental USA. Fedex custom Critical next flight out service available at market rate -If you need to ask how much this costs you can't afford the crank to begin with. Pictures available upon request. Almost too pretty to use in tractor motor. It looks like it was made for some 4 cyl exotic with five main bearings. Christmas/Hanukah stocking stuffer. Happy Autumn M. Dunst www.headgasket.com Gasket Works USA, LLC 626.358.1616 Voice 626.628.3777 Fax GMT -8 Pacific chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From rikrock at aol.com Thu Sep 27 13:39:52 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 15:39:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed In-Reply-To: <004501c800a9$7f7116d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <8C9CE9151EB56C3-6D4-2B12@webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com> <004501c800a9$7f7116d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <8C9CF554EC6D7FB-B6C-69B1@MBLK-M18.sysops.aol.com> The machined flange to which the ring gear mates is now a separate piece.? It broke(sheared)? from the main body :-( Rich Rock -----Original Message----- From: BOB KRAMER To: rikrock at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 9:55 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed Rick, Long shot may be optimistic. I just bought a "parts" TR4 Detroit Locker on eBay a few weeks ago for an embarrassing sum. I haven't disassembled it yet to see if I got a good or bad deal. Is your case worn in the machined surfaces for the carrier bearings? Good luck with the search.. If you find any other spare parts while hunting I am looking for some engagement springs. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed > Amici, > > I'm not sure of the correct name, but what I'm looking for might be called > the?diff gear carrier.? It's the part of?the Detroit?Locker?that contains > all the gears you can't see when?unit is?assembled.? It's a cast piece, > with a machined flange that the ring gear?attaches to.?This is for a TR4. > > Yeah, I know this is a long shot, but maybe, just maybe........ > > Thanks! > > Rich Rock > Pottstown, PA > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From budscars at msn.com Thu Sep 27 14:43:44 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 13:43:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: best choice so far?? Message-ID: Re: best choice so far??Hi Gang...a friend of a friend is interested in this spitfire on the link below..apparently jerry barker built the engine..I you have any addirional info..especially about the car being CSRG eligible, please contact Bill Kirkwood at kiwi at mbari.org Thanks Racer Bud..spitfire #21 --- http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/triumph/1180469329/1180469329ss.htm From Gt6steve at aol.com Thu Sep 27 14:47:05 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:47:05 EDT Subject: [Fot] Fw: best choice so far?? Message-ID: A VERY good car well known to the VARA Triumph racers. Impeccable credentials, well sorted and fast. Steve Smith _http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/triumph/1180469329/1180469329ss.htm_ (http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/triumph/1180469329/1180469329ss.htm) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From JandJalford at aol.com Thu Sep 27 16:36:17 2007 From: JandJalford at aol.com (JandJalford at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:36:17 EDT Subject: [Fot] Fw: best choice so far?? Message-ID: Steve, Car has been sold and is back in Washington to run with SOVREN. Vince is now building a Fiat. Jerry Alford ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From hottr6 at hotmail.com Thu Sep 27 16:39:57 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:39:57 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: Mordy wrote: >Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal mains and >rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower of San >Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. The good >news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day. >The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00 A lot of the heavy moving parts in my old 351 Cleveland were built by Crower, and it would run at 7,000 rpm all day long. Crower builds truly good stuff, and I would recommend them. $3.3K? CHEAP, considering I am still looking at $6K for the first billet TR6 crank. When is someone going to kick SCCA in the a$$ and allow all TR6s to compete in vintage? Once the market exists, affordable hi-po bits will follow. Shane Ingate, in the Land of Enchantment _________________________________________________________________ Can you find the hidden words? Take a break and play Seekadoo! http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_hotmailtextlink1 From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 27 17:02:25 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:02:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A60B43F-F9B8-419D-A904-F7406DE50AD8@bnj.com> Not sure what you mean about SCCA allowing TR6 to compete in vintage. My experience with the SCCA here in portland indicates that you can run anything you like in vintage as long as it passes tech, and tech doesn't car what the car is as long as it's safe. On Sep 27, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Shane Ingate wrote: > Mordy wrote: > >> Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal >> mains and >> rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower >> of San >> Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. >> The good >> news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day. >> The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00 > > A lot of the heavy moving parts in my old 351 Cleveland were built > by Crower, and it would run at 7,000 rpm all day long. Crower builds > truly good stuff, and I would recommend them. $3.3K? CHEAP, > considering > I am still looking at $6K for the first billet TR6 crank. > > When is someone going to kick SCCA in the a$$ and allow all TR6s to > compete in vintage? Once the market exists, affordable hi-po bits > will > follow. > > Shane Ingate, in the Land of Enchantment > > _________________________________________________________________ > Can you find the hidden words? Take a break and play Seekadoo! > http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_hotmailtextlink1 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Thu Sep 27 17:04:31 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:04:31 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: Shane, Who told you 6K? Probably Moldex. Several years ago Scat told me $2200 for the sixes and I could mix the strokes. Trouble was I had to buy ten and I just couldn't float that expense. I've not talked to them in several years. Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Sep 27 20:29:08 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 21:29:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Zinc Inquiry Message-ID: FoT, Here is a response from Brad Penn regarding ZDDP.Allen Begin forwarded message: > From: Ken Tyger > Date: September 27, 2007 8:03:34 AM CDT > To: awashatko at wi.rr.com > Subject: Zinc Inquiry > > Allen, > > Thank you for contacting the American Refining Group, Inc. and for > your inquiry. > > I understand any concerns you might have in regards to (or lack of) > ZDDP and anti-wear components in racing lubricants. Although the > exact zinc concentration in our formulation is proprietary, I can say > that the value you have referenced, >1% ZN (>1200ppm), would be a > reasonable representation of the approximate level of zinc in our Brad > Penn. Penn-Grade 1. Racing Oil(s). Zinc, as you know, is a critical > element in protecting the cam lobe flat tappet wear area commonly > found in high performance applications. The zinc utilized in our ZDDP > is a very polar additive, meaning the zinc compounds react to the > metal to prevent scuffing and wear..obviously a must when discussing > flat tappet cams. > > Secondly, while zinc is an important part of the oil make-up, it is by > no means the whole story. The 100% PA Grade base stocks used in > formulating our Brad Penn. Penn-Grade 1. Racing Oil(s) contain a > natural polarity to the metal as well. Yes, the additive package is > important, but as you can see so are the base oils. Our refinery can > only produce one crude oil and that is Penn-Grade. > > Many engine builders, racing enthusiasts and your typical > muscle/hotrod/vintage users have reported outstanding success using > the Brad Penn. Penn-Grade 1. Racing Oil(s).I have no doubt you will > experience the same. On a sidenote, Brad Penn. Penn-Grade 1. Racing > Oil(s) are recommended by such cam manufacturers as Crower, Isky, > Schneider, Howards, Bullet and Crane. > > As you know, talk is cheap! The proof is in the performance. We at > American Refining Group, Inc. rely on the proven performance of our > products, not hype. If I can be of further assistance, please contact > me. > > Regards, > > Kenneth M. Tyger > Technical Service Representative > American Refining Group, Inc. > > > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Thu Sep 27 20:34:11 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:34:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] scca Vintage Message-ID: <46FC6823.5060408@cyberspeedway.net> The SCCA vintage rules beyond safety are mostly up to the Region. There are several GCRs included in the Vintage GCR. I think they are 1962, 1967-68, and 1972. I don't have one here but they are very interesting. They clear up a lot of speculation about what was allowed and when. AZ Region is going to start running a Vintage group in our regional program this fall. We are starting with Production and Sedan classes only. I think the local Vintage guys who are guiding this are taking any non flared car for the first event. Greg Lund From walt at hot-tr6.com Fri Sep 28 07:06:52 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:06:52 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed Message-ID: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> I am building up a couple of TR6 engine but my two spare blocks for my 2008 racing season season. My two extra TR6 engines are missing the rear main crankshaft bearing caps. If any FOT members have a motor that grenaded maybe they have a cap or two they could sell me. Thanks Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, NM direct email: walt at hot-tr6.com From dos_gusanos at msn.com Fri Sep 28 08:04:30 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:04:30 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, and I'm waiting for the Confederate Air Force, or whatever their PC name is now, to designate the B-52 as a WWII aircraft. Henry Morrison, Albuquerque.............> From: hottr6 at hotmail.com> To: gasket.works at verizon.net> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:39:57 -0400> CC: fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot> > Mordy wrote:> > >Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal mains and> >rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower of San> >Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. The good > >news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day.> >The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00> > A lot of the heavy moving parts in my old 351 Cleveland were built> by Crower, and it would run at 7,000 rpm all day long. Crower builds> truly good stuff, and I would recommend them. $3.3K? CHEAP, considering> I am still looking at $6K for the first billet TR6 crank.> > When is someone going to kick SCCA in the a$$ and allow all TR6s to> compete in vintage? Once the market exists, affordable hi-po bits will > follow.> > Shane Ingate, in the Land of Enchantment> > _________________________________________________________________> Can you find the hidden words? Take a break and play Seekadoo! > http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_hotmailtextlink1> _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Sep 28 08:07:06 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:07:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed References: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <03da01c801d8$dac92c40$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Walt, thanks for starting this thread because I also need some main bearing caps. I need all of them though, so if after Walt gets his to rear main caps, if there are any left over please contact me. Thanks, Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Hollowell" To: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:06 AM Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed > I am building up a couple of TR6 engine but my two spare blocks for my 2008 > racing season season. My two extra TR6 engines are missing the rear main > crankshaft bearing caps. If any FOT members have a motor that grenaded maybe > they have a cap or two they could sell me. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Albuquerque, NM > direct email: walt at hot-tr6.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Fri Sep 28 08:12:49 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:12:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed Message-ID: Dang guys, what are you doing with these things? I'll see what I've got Charly, already promised a rear main cap to Walt if I can come up with them. Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Sep 28 08:47:46 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:47:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed References: Message-ID: <040001c801de$89268670$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Thanks, let me know. I don't know what happened to the caps, I just found a good block with out any. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: charly at mitchelplumbing.com ; walt at hot-tr6.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 part needed Dang guys, what are you doing with these things? I'll see what I've got Charly, already promised a rear main cap to Walt if I can come up with them. Steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Fri Sep 28 09:05:27 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:05:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed In-Reply-To: <03da01c801d8$dac92c40$1a02a8c0@workstation3> References: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> <03da01c801d8$dac92c40$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820AC11E93@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Mark, Did you ever get onto the FOT list? I can't recall seeing you post anything as of yet. If your not onthe list then you haven't seen that some other FoTer's are looking for TR6 main bearing caps. If I recall you had a blown up block and might still have the bearing caps. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Hollowell" To: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:06 AM Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed > I am building up a couple of TR6 engine but my two spare blocks for my 2008 > racing season season. My two extra TR6 engines are missing the rear main > crankshaft bearing caps. If any FOT members have a motor that grenaded maybe > they have a cap or two they could sell me. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Albuquerque, NM > direct email: walt at hot-tr6.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot rkramer at rdoequipment.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From hottr6 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 28 09:19:06 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:19:06 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve, The low quote you received from SCAT amortizes the cost of set-up on the first crank over 10 units. Moldex says that the first unit is $6K, the first 3 units $5.5K each, and the price decreases depending on the length of the production run. I do not know of many serious TR5/6 racers out there: Chuck Arnold, Dean Van der Carr, Sam Halkias, Walt Hollowill, JK Jackson, Bob Lang, Mike Munson, Kai Radicke, Marty Sukey, Dave Wingett and Alan Washatko. My apologies if I have left any out. Still, it is a small number, and not because the car is incapable, but we have to race unfairly in classes where the car is largely non-competitive. The GT6s have an easier time because they meet the age requirements. Shane ----Original Message Follows---- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: hottr6 at hotmail.com, gasket.works at verizon.net CC: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:04:31 EDT Shane, Who told you 6K? Probably Moldex. Several years ago Scat told me $2200 for the sixes and I could mix the strokes. Trouble was I had to buy ten and I just couldn't float that expense. I've not talked to them in several years. Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com _________________________________________________________________ A place for moms to take a break! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Fri Sep 28 09:23:28 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:23:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: Message-ID: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> How do you tell your wives that you need to spend 3-6k on a crankshaft? ~Steve B :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Ingate" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > Steve, > > The low quote you received from SCAT amortizes the cost of set-up on the > first crank over 10 units. Moldex says that the first unit is $6K, the > first 3 units $5.5K each, and the price decreases depending on the length > of > the production run. > > I do not know of many serious TR5/6 racers out there: Chuck Arnold, Dean > Van > der Carr, Sam Halkias, Walt Hollowill, JK Jackson, Bob Lang, Mike Munson, > Kai Radicke, Marty Sukey, Dave Wingett and Alan Washatko. My apologies if > I > have left any out. Still, it is a small number, and not because the car > is > incapable, but we have to race unfairly in classes where the car is > largely > non-competitive. > > The GT6s have an easier time because they meet the age requirements. > > Shane > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Gt6steve at aol.com > To: hottr6 at hotmail.com, gasket.works at verizon.net > CC: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:04:31 EDT > > Shane, > Who told you 6K? Probably Moldex. Several years ago Scat told me $2200 > for > the sixes and I could mix the strokes. Trouble was I had to buy ten and I > just couldn't float that expense. I've not talked to them in several > years. > Steve > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > A place for moms to take a break! > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 09:29:36 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:29:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot...telling wife Message-ID: right after you catch her with another guy..! ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Sep 28 10:02:47 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:02:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: Message-ID: <040a01c801e9$039abf20$1a02a8c0@workstation3> I too race a TR6 and would be interested in a crank, but the crank hasn't been the problem. Its been the flywheel/clutch. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Ingate" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > Steve, > > The low quote you received from SCAT amortizes the cost of set-up on the > first crank over 10 units. Moldex says that the first unit is $6K, the > first 3 units $5.5K each, and the price decreases depending on the length of > the production run. > > I do not know of many serious TR5/6 racers out there: Chuck Arnold, Dean Van > der Carr, Sam Halkias, Walt Hollowill, JK Jackson, Bob Lang, Mike Munson, > Kai Radicke, Marty Sukey, Dave Wingett and Alan Washatko. My apologies if I > have left any out. Still, it is a small number, and not because the car is > incapable, but we have to race unfairly in classes where the car is largely > non-competitive. > > The GT6s have an easier time because they meet the age requirements. > > Shane > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Gt6steve at aol.com > To: hottr6 at hotmail.com, gasket.works at verizon.net > CC: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:04:31 EDT > > Shane, > Who told you 6K? Probably Moldex. Several years ago Scat told me $2200 for > the sixes and I could mix the strokes. Trouble was I had to buy ten and I > just couldn't float that expense. I've not talked to them in several years. > Steve > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > A place for moms to take a break! > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Sep 28 10:03:31 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:03:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot...telling wife References: Message-ID: <041201c801e9$1dfce5a0$1a02a8c0@workstation3> How do you justify all the other racing expenses? Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot...telling wife > right after you catch her with another guy..! > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 10:10:51 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:10:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot...telling wife Message-ID: as soon as I get done with this vacuuming ,and the dishes...I'm gonna work on the race entry...and hopefully,someday, Paul Newman really will show up. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From chasgee at aol.com Fri Sep 28 10:07:32 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:07:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed In-Reply-To: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> References: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8C9D000CF981184-178C-991C@webmail-me16.sysops.aol.com> Keep in mind these are the same as 1500 Spitfire. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Walter Hollowell To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 6:06 am Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed I am building up a couple of TR6 engine but my two spare blocks for my 2008 racing season season. My two extra TR6 engines are missing the rear main crankshaft bearing caps. If any FOT members have a motor that grenaded maybe they have a cap or two they could sell me. Thanks Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, NM direct email: walt at hot-tr6.com chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Sep 28 10:22:40 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:22:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed References: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> <8C9D000CF981184-178C-991C@webmail-me16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <042001c801eb$cc0ee650$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Thanks, I never thought of that. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 part needed > Keep in mind these are the same as 1500 Spitfire. > > Chuck > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Hollowell > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 6:06 am > Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed > > > > I am building up a couple of TR6 engine but my two spare blocks for my 2008 > racing season season. My two extra TR6 engines are missing the rear main > crankshaft bearing caps. If any FOT members have a motor that grenaded maybe > they have a cap or two they could sell me. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Albuquerque, NM > direct email: walt at hot-tr6.com > chasgee at aol.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 10:28:01 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:28:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR6....wife Message-ID: it then really depends on yor situ....Newlywed,better set the right precedents now or b/4 ......if 39yrs married,etc, ,like me,....try leaving a copy of your 401K where she can see it....and mentioning how 'dangerous' this sport is! ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From twakeman at razzolink.com Fri Sep 28 10:51:04 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:51:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> Steve Belfer wrote: > How do you tell your wives that you need to spend 3-6k on a crankshaft? By first telling them that they have $3-6K to spend on themselves without regard to family or home. Fair is fair TeriAnn From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 10:58:21 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:58:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: Sorry Teri...I don't feel that spending should be a contest of matching funds.....spend what you NEED ,when you need it,and vice-versa.... ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From dos_gusanos at msn.com Fri Sep 28 11:21:22 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:21:22 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper trail.................................. From twakeman at razzolink.com Fri Sep 28 11:20:25 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:20:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46FD37D9.1000900@razzolink.com> REK46 at aol.com wrote: > Sorry Teri...I don't feel that spending should be a contest of matching > funds.....spend what you NEED ,when you need it,and vice-versa.... I agree for individual and family NEEDs. But I don't agree when it comes to hobbies & pastimes. There the balance of discretionary funds tend to be unbalanced. Especially the closer a family income comes to subsistence level income. If there's plenty of money for everyone to do as they wish, who cares. If one party goes without while the other spends on non family items, there tends to be a resentment level that accumulates over time. but this is just one woman's opinion From hottr6 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 28 11:57:47 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:57:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot... telling the wife Message-ID: >How do you tell your wives that you need to spend 3-6k on a crankshaft? The current member is a little floppy, and needs stiffening to sustain faster speeds. It must be Friday and am getting a little punchy. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes! http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2 From riverside at cedar-rapids.net Fri Sep 28 12:01:29 2007 From: riverside at cedar-rapids.net (riverside) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:01:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: <46FD37D9.1000900@razzolink.com> Message-ID: <003301c801f9$99586250$78d0fc04@your55e5f9e3d2> faint echos of a prematurely curtailed racing carreer and the causes thereof. art d ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Cc: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > REK46 at aol.com wrote: >> Sorry Teri...I don't feel that spending should be a contest of matching >> funds.....spend what you NEED ,when you need it,and vice-versa.... > > I agree for individual and family NEEDs. But I don't agree when it > comes to hobbies & pastimes. There the balance of discretionary funds > tend to be unbalanced. Especially the closer a family income comes to > subsistence level income. If there's plenty of money for everyone to do > as they wish, who cares. If one party goes without while the other > spends on non family items, there tends to be a resentment level that > accumulates over time. > > but this is just one woman's opinion > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > riverside at cedar-rapids.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1034 - Release Date: > 9/27/2007 5:00 PM From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 12:09:47 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:09:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: well,as Teri says .." it's only one womans opinion "...maybe we should poll the wives of Warren Jeffs. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From dos_gusanos at msn.com Fri Sep 28 12:10:04 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:10:04 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <003301c801f9$99586250$78d0fc04@your55e5f9e3d2> References: <46FD37D9.1000900@razzolink.com> <003301c801f9$99586250$78d0fc04@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: This is my favorite topic for making jokes, that said, I would dump it all rather than go through the big D, after all she'd probably take the pit crew with her. From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 12:21:29 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:21:29 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: If we had to go thru the Big "D " (assuming you don't mean Dallas)...we'd lose more than the crew.....then it would be back to racing on Visa ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Sep 28 12:24:05 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:24:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot... telling the wife References: Message-ID: <004a01c801fc$c0e77600$0200a8c0@Desktop> Gee Shane....... Rags has been a part for how long By the time you will need the crank it will be 9K or more Craig What do tell your wife (the boss) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Ingate" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot... telling the wife > >How do you tell your wives that you need to spend 3-6k on a crankshaft? > > The current member is a little floppy, and needs stiffening to sustain > faster speeds. > > It must be Friday and am getting a little punchy. > > Shane Ingate in NM > > _________________________________________________________________ > Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes! > http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Fri Sep 28 13:57:21 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:57:21 -0600 Subject: [Fot] No oil pressure Message-ID: <000001c80209$c8d14be0$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> During my pre-ignition check of a fresh TR4 motor I discovered I have NO oil pressure. When I spun up the pump through the distributor pedestal it geysered through the pedestal but little else. During assembly I greased the new pump to assist with the prime. I pulled the oil pressure line and checked for obstructions. None found I have a rocker feed line I can only get a drop or two of oil at number 4 exhaust rocker. I tried rotating the cam to a half dozen different orientations and still can't get oil to the rockers. Checked for the gasket between the block and pump, it's there. Checked the copper washer at the banjo fitting at the filter head. I had a smaller ID washer to begin with, swapped it out with a larger ID and no change. Adjusted the oil pressure relief valve all the way in and back out, seems to be in order, ball looks seated but I will check again. I checked the gauge with air, works fine. Disconnected the oil pressure line up top, barely a dribble of oil. Pulled one of the large oil gallery plugs below the distributor, oil flows out but can't tell at what pressure. The oil pump drive shaft bushing notch is aligned front to rear but seems to be off by a degree or two ? Checked the filter head for obstructions, found none. I installed the oil filter and the oil cooler dry, when taken apart they were both full. Pump pickup/screen has proper orientation. Everything seems to be in order, I'm completely baffled. Has anyone else had this problem ? Thanx, Jim G. # 102 RMVR From Fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 14:08:02 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:08:02 EDT Subject: [Fot] No oil pressure Message-ID: In a message dated 9/28/2007 3:59:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: Checked for the gasket between the block and pump, it's there. fitted correct way? Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From mini at wi.rr.com Fri Sep 28 17:57:01 2007 From: mini at wi.rr.com (Richard Gehweiler) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:57:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] No oil pressure In-Reply-To: <000001c80209$c8d14be0$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Message-ID: <000e01c8022b$473739b0$6400a8c0@home> I used to work at a now defunct sports car service shop. One of the jobs they had me do was to install and remove the engine from an MG TF (in and out at least a half a dozen times). It wouldn't generate oil pressure. The guy who rebuilt it and the shop owner couldn't figure it out. They finally found that the machine shop hadn't installed one of the cam bearings....no restriction, no oil pressure. I couldn't get them to bench test for pressure, they had me install and start the engine to get pressure. It pained me to see metal shavings at the rockers on a fresh rebuild that a customer was paying for. (He also wound up paying for all the time I spent installing and pulling the engine, any wonder the shop is out of business!). Richard Gehweiler mini at wi.rr.com 1.262.894.5460 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+mini=wi.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+mini=wi.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of James Gray Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 2:57 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] No oil pressure During my pre-ignition check of a fresh TR4 motor I discovered I have NO oil pressure. When I spun up the pump through the distributor pedestal it geysered through the pedestal but little else. During assembly I greased the new pump to assist with the prime. I pulled the oil pressure line and checked for obstructions. None found I have a rocker feed line I can only get a drop or two of oil at number 4 exhaust rocker. I tried rotating the cam to a half dozen different orientations and still can't get oil to the rockers. Checked for the gasket between the block and pump, it's there. Checked the copper washer at the banjo fitting at the filter head. I had a smaller ID washer to begin with, swapped it out with a larger ID and no change. Adjusted the oil pressure relief valve all the way in and back out, seems to be in order, ball looks seated but I will check again. I checked the gauge with air, works fine. Disconnected the oil pressure line up top, barely a dribble of oil. Pulled one of the large oil gallery plugs below the distributor, oil flows out but can't tell at what pressure. The oil pump drive shaft bushing notch is aligned front to rear but seems to be off by a degree or two ? Checked the filter head for obstructions, found none. I installed the oil filter and the oil cooler dry, when taken apart they were both full. Pump pickup/screen has proper orientation. Everything seems to be in order, I'm completely baffled. Has anyone else had this problem ? Thanx, Jim G. # 102 RMVR mini at wi.rr.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Fri Sep 28 19:36:14 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? In-Reply-To: <46FC6823.5060408@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <413580.57432.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> While racing today at LRP, I lost the head gasket. Brand new motor, only 2 sessions of time on it. Upon inspection, the rear freezeplug had "left the building". So my question is this, is it more likely the gasket failure caused the freezeplug to go or the other way around? This motor was brand new, and it was put together (dad and myself) effectively. This motor doesn't leak and it has power so why would the gasket go so quickly? This is why I am leaning towards the freezeplug as the cause and the gasket as the effect.... Thoughts... Thanks Jay --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. From budscars at msn.com Fri Sep 28 19:58:21 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:58:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? References: <413580.57432.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jay....I don't know what TR you are racing, ..I have a new engine in my Spitfire....and the new freeze plugs are leaking..without even being on the track.....I've been told that now that the blocks are getting old, that putting a sealer in the water system is a normal thing ? I could use some input here too. Thanks Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Creel" To: "greg" ; "FOT LIST" Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? > While racing today at LRP, I lost the head gasket. Brand new motor, only > 2 sessions of time on it. Upon inspection, the rear freezeplug had "left > the building". So my question is this, is it more likely the gasket > failure caused the freezeplug to go or the other way around? > > This motor was brand new, and it was put together (dad and myself) > effectively. This motor doesn't leak and it has power so why would the > gasket go so quickly? This is why I am leaning towards the freezeplug as > the cause and the gasket as the effect.... > > Thoughts... > > Thanks > Jay > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Fri Sep 28 20:06:13 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 02:06:13 GMT Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? Message-ID: <20070928.220613.5810.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> I lost a freeze plug on my Spitfire years ago and more recently had one leaking on a head that I rebuilt for my TR3. Both were plugs that were in place for years. From now on, I will replace them as part of the build up, so that I know what I have. With my Spitfire I drilled and tapped 4-40 screws next to the freeze plug as a little more insurance to retain the plug. Joe(B) -- "RACER BUD" wrote: Hi Jay....I don't know what TR you are racing, ..I have a new engine in my Spitfire....and the new freeze plugs are leaking..without even being on the track.....I've been told that now that the blocks are getting old, that putting a sealer in the water system is a normal thing ? I could use some input here too. Thanks Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Creel" To: "greg" ; "FOT LIST" Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? > While racing today at LRP, I lost the head gasket. Brand new motor, only > 2 sessions of time on it. Upon inspection, the rear freezeplug had "left > the building". So my question is this, is it more likely the gasket > failure caused the freezeplug to go or the other way around? > > This motor was brand new, and it was put together (dad and myself) > effectively. This motor doesn't leak and it has power so why would the > gasket go so quickly? This is why I am leaning towards the freezeplug as > the cause and the gasket as the effect.... > > Thoughts... > > Thanks > Jay > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Vonage - Official Site $24.99/mo. for unlimited local and long distance calls! http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/JKFkuJO6WhXb5tcDhnoirvNVPggxbMyu 4tRC2AwOzraMz1QEptbT9f/ From spitfiresuz at 141.com Fri Sep 28 20:41:29 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:41:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P Susan :) dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper > trail.................................. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Fri Sep 28 21:02:18 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 23:02:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? Message-ID: In a message dated 9/28/2007 7:42:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: > > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 02:06:13 GMT > From: "Joe Boruch" > Subject: Re: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze > plug???? > To: budscars at msn.com > > I lost a freeze plug on my Spitfire years ago and more recently had one > leaking on a head that I rebuilt for my TR3. Both were plugs that were in > place for years. From now on, I will replace them as part of the build up, > so > that I know what I have. > With my Spitfire I drilled and tapped 4-40 screws next to the freeze plug as > a > little more insurance to retain the plug. Joe(B) ISTR that some racers hold their freeze plugs in place with a strap attached to the block with some kind of screws, to prevent them coming out? I do not believe that the age of the blocks has any effect. Regards Lion From twakeman at razzolink.com Fri Sep 28 22:05:24 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:05:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: <46FDCF04.1020702@razzolink.com> Susan Kahler wrote: > Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank > from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine > around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P > > Susan :) Something to aspire to! I've been working on a Land Rover project that includes new front axles, front diff, front prop shaft, all new frame suspension bushings and rebuilding the transfer case. So far I've broken 2 nails! I'm envious of your skill! TeriAnn From dos_gusanos at msn.com Fri Sep 28 22:18:28 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:18:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: If your lady will be happy with the crank as an anniversary gift, who's gonna have to do any explaining? I'd a never let a gal with her own Spitfire get away......................................Henry> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:41:29 -0500> From: spitfiresuz at 141.com> To: dos_gusanos at msn.com> CC: fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot> > Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank > from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine > around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P> > Susan :)> > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote:> > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of> > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with> > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper> > trail..................................> > _______________________________________________> > http://www.team.net/donate.html> >> > spitfiresuz at 141.com> > Fot mailing list> > Fot at autox.team.net> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> >> >> >> > > > -- > ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. **> From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Sat Sep 29 06:26:33 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 08:26:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: <001401c80294$0242b280$0200a8c0@Desktop> OUCH! you guys and girls need to get back to racing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kahler" To: Cc: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank > from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine > around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P > > Susan :) > > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: >> Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of >> thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with >> allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper >> trail.................................. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> spitfiresuz at 141.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> >> > > -- > ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then > beat you with experience. ** > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From VANDECARR at aol.com Sat Sep 29 07:02:13 2007 From: VANDECARR at aol.com (VANDECARR at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:02:13 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR 6 Race Engine for sale Message-ID: I would like to offer this race prepared TR 6 to the group before listing it on ebay. This engine was originally in my TR 6 that was used only for Solo II events. It was installed in June and was used in about 9 events. I replaced the engine with a small block Ford V8. I was keeping it in case I changed my mind or was going to build another race TR 6 but I like the V8 power and I bm now building a BM car for Solo II. This engine was in great running shape when removed and has been stored in a heated garage. Put on a set of Webers and manifold and this engine is ready to go. In addition to the race parts listed below it also has a new oil pump and water pump. If anyone plans on bulding a race motor for next season this will save you a lot of money. Ibd like $4500 and will pack it up and freight it for my cost. Below are the specs for the engine - for more more info email me or call 845-221-4776. J&E forged pistons - 040 0ver Pauter forged rods NOS standard size Vandervell Tri Metal bearings - Mains and rods(comes with extra set) Circle B head milled .220 - machinist checked for proper head thickness before milling Goodparts roller rockers and hardened shaft Hollow push rods and chilled lifters Cam is a BP 285 with a .472 lift Aluminum flywheel with HD B&B clutch and pressure plate - balanced Electromotive crank fire ignition system - Aluminum front pulley- alternater idler pulley Block was boiled,bored, decked, mains line bored and magnafluxed ARP head studs and main bearing studs installed All internal parts were magnafluxed and balanced - over $2000 just in machine work Block is plumbed for an accusump - 3 qt accusump with manual valve included Also a set of Kirk Racing headers are available. DeanVanDeCarr ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From spitfiresuz at 141.com Sat Sep 29 07:16:07 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 08:16:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <46FDCF04.1020702@razzolink.com> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> <46FDCF04.1020702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: <46FE5017.90108@141.com> Now, I am a novice initiate when it comes to you, TeriAnn! I am always amazed at your experience and knowledge. That's a lot of big, heavy stuff -- no wonder nails have been broken! A Spitfire engine is like building a model next to that. ;) But what a huge difference it will make in your LR. Good luck with it! Susan :) TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > Susan Kahler wrote: > >> Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank >> from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine >> around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P >> >> Susan :) >> > > > Something to aspire to! > > I've been working on a Land Rover project that includes new front axles, > front diff, front prop shaft, all new frame suspension bushings and > rebuilding the transfer case. > > So far I've broken 2 nails! I'm envious of your skill! > > TeriAnn > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From twakeman at razzolink.com Sat Sep 29 09:47:47 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 08:47:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <46FE5017.90108@141.com> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> <46FDCF04.1020702@razzolink.com> <46FE5017.90108@141.com> Message-ID: <46FE73A3.2030401@razzolink.com> Susan Kahler wrote: > Now, I am a novice initiate when it comes to you, TeriAnn! I am always > amazed at your experience and knowledge. > That's a lot of big, heavy stuff -- no wonder nails have been broken! A > Spitfire engine is like building a model next to that. ;) But what a > huge difference it will make in your LR. Good luck with it! Thanks, but I did get help. I had a friend over to lift the diff out and in and to put 150 lbft torque on four bolts. TeriAnn From WEmery7451 at aol.com Sat Sep 29 10:18:03 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:18:03 EDT Subject: [Fot] No oil pressure Message-ID: Whenever I have run into this problem a few times, it has been one of the following: -Accidentally mounted an oil cooler sandwich wrong between the filter and the block. -A piece of gasket got lodged in one of the above sandwich oil passage holes. -The pin on top of the oil pump drive gear came out, allowing the oil drive shaft to jump up out of the oil pump. -The clean out 1/8" pipe plugs were left out of the crankshaft. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillB at bnj.com Sat Sep 29 10:23:31 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:23:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? References: <20070928.220613.5810.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: None of us really need freeze plugs unless you store your car in an unheated garage with water in it. I use screws around the edge to retain everything, topped with a nice coating of JB weld over a new plug. End of problem. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Joe Boruch Sent: Fri 9/28/2007 7:06 PM To: budscars at msn.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? I lost a freeze plug on my Spitfire years ago and more recently had one leaking on a head that I rebuilt for my TR3. Both were plugs that were in place for years. From now on, I will replace them as part of the build up, so that I know what I have. With my Spitfire I drilled and tapped 4-40 screws next to the freeze plug as a little more insurance to retain the plug. Joe(B) -- "RACER BUD" wrote: Hi Jay....I don't know what TR you are racing, ..I have a new engine in my Spitfire....and the new freeze plugs are leaking..without even being on the track.....I've been told that now that the blocks are getting old, that putting a sealer in the water system is a normal thing ? I could use some input here too. Thanks Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Creel" To: "greg" ; "FOT LIST" Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? > While racing today at LRP, I lost the head gasket. Brand new motor, only > 2 sessions of time on it. Upon inspection, the rear freezeplug had "left > the building". So my question is this, is it more likely the gasket > failure caused the freezeplug to go or the other way around? > > This motor was brand new, and it was put together (dad and myself) > effectively. This motor doesn't leak and it has power so why would the > gasket go so quickly? This is why I am leaning towards the freezeplug as > the cause and the gasket as the effect.... > > Thoughts... > > Thanks > Jay > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Vonage - Official Site $24.99/mo. for unlimited local and long distance calls! http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/JKFkuJO6WhXb5tcDhnoirvNVPggxbMyu 4tRC2AwOzraMz1QEptbT9f/ billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sat Sep 29 10:37:50 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:37:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: I was wondering how that possibly could stand. Especially since Terri and Susan are two of the most knowledgeable members of the FOT. I started to respond to the thread earlier with my technique for spending what I want on my toys, but realized that I don't really have one. I'm doubly blessed, not only with comfortable finances, but also with a wife that doesn't keep score. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Susan Kahler Sent: Fri 9/28/2007 7:41 PM To: dos_gusanos at msn.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P Susan :) dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper > trail.................................. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sat Sep 29 10:48:19 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 10:48:19 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Oil pressure problem solved Message-ID: <000501c802b8$8ab1df50$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> The fact I was not using an old pump drive shaft or something of similar diameter seemed to be the cause. I chucked one up in the drill & gave it a spin and just about pegged the gauge. I suppose I'm glad it was not something stupid I did during assembly. If it was, the whole motor would be suspect. Now, to get it fired up :) Thanks to all who advised. Jim Gray # 102 RMVR From BillB at bnj.com Sat Sep 29 10:50:04 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:50:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Oil pressure problem solved References: <000501c802b8$8ab1df50$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Message-ID: I assume you are turning the shaft with the drill in reverse. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of James Gray Sent: Sat 9/29/2007 9:48 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Oil pressure problem solved The fact I was not using an old pump drive shaft or something of similar diameter seemed to be the cause. I chucked one up in the drill & gave it a spin and just about pegged the gauge. I suppose I'm glad it was not something stupid I did during assembly. If it was, the whole motor would be suspect. Now, to get it fired up :) Thanks to all who advised. Jim Gray # 102 RMVR billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 11:01:37 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 10:01:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0709291001v320cce33r687629ea16c898ea@mail.gmail.com> OK, time to weigh in. My wife gladly lets me race and spend whatever I want!!!! The only catch [thee is always a catch] she gets a $ added to "her account only bank account" for every dollar I spend. A $4000 crank is not on the list. A 1500 Salisbury and a 600 close ratio gear set is for the winter. The only problem with the deal is, we know exactly what gets spent on the car, but I never know what is an expense that should go to her "hobby" money and what should come out of our common expenses. Good luck with the rebild Bill -- the pictures are excellent. On 9/29/07, Bill Babcock wrote: > > I was wondering how that possibly could stand. Especially sinc's e Terri > and > Susan are two of the most knowledgeable members of the FOT. > > I started to respond to the thread earlier with my technique for spending > what > I want on my toys, but realized that I don't really have one. I'm doubly > blessed, not only with comfortable finances, but also with a wife that > doesn't > keep score. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Susan Kahler > Sent: Fri 9/28/2007 7:41 PM > To: dos_gusanos at msn.com > Cc: Friends of Triumph > Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > > Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank > from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine > around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P > > Susan :) > > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: > > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up > of > > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage > with > > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper > > trail.................................. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > > > > -- > ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then > beat > you with experience. ** > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From spitfiresuz at 141.com Sat Sep 29 11:20:22 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:20:22 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: <46FE8956.3020202@141.com> That is an awesome situation to be in, Bill! You are definitely blessed. Teri, one of the most knowledgeable on the list absolutely without a doubt. Me, well, I know some stuff but am blessed with Brad and the kindness of everyone who shares knowledge on this list. FOT rocks!!! :) (Henry was only funning - he's seen my old garage!) Susan :) Bill Babcock wrote: > > I was wondering how that possibly could stand. Especially since Terri > and Susan are two of the most knowledgeable members of the FOT. > > I started to respond to the thread earlier with my technique for > spending what I want on my toys, but realized that I don't really have > one. I'm doubly blessed, not only with comfortable finances, but also > with a wife that doesn't keep score. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Susan Kahler > Sent: Fri 9/28/2007 7:41 PM > To: dos_gusanos at msn.com > Cc: Friends of Triumph > Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > > Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank > from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine > around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P > > Susan :) > > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: > > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line > up of > > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage > with > > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper > > trail.................................. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > > > > -- > ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level > then beat you with experience. ** > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1036 - Release Date: 9/28/2007 3:40 PM > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From igofaster at charter.net Sat Sep 29 17:57:55 2007 From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 16:57:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] New member prospective Message-ID: <20070929195755.SNUGJ.78150.root@fepweb07> Well guys, thank you for inviting me into the FoT! I'm really appreciative of the friendship and knowledge everyone is sharing and passing along. I really have to publically thank George Curl for taking me under his wing when I went to CVAR driver school at TWS. The #33 GT6 I bought from Bob Davis is beautifully prepared and has been a dream come true for me. The car is fantastic and he is one of many of you guys and gals that should be commended for the quality and knowledge of the old Triumphs which is keeping the relevant, viable , and racing. I appreciate the information everyone is sharing with me to start working on my CVAR transmission issue. I support CVAR in their effort to keep the cars as closely as they were to original. I have no desire to sell the T50 Toyota gearbox, as I won't mind moving it in and out if I choose to participate with other organizations, or another GT if I build one. FYI, I'm listing my 1969 GT6+ on eBay sunday. I've been working on the car casually over the last 10 years or so. It is an interesting car. If someone is looking for a good GT6... it's got potential. Thanks for sharing again, the FoT network... now ..... where can I get some of those cool FoT window stickers I've seen on my car and others? Kindest regards, ya'll..... Bobby Whitehead Texas USA From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 08:38:24 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 10:38:24 EDT Subject: [Fot] FoT Stickers The LOGO seen around the world. Message-ID: FoT & Bobby, I have a stock of the FOT Decals somewhere around my desk. Bobby Whitehead asks for access to these....seems like I should dispose of a few of these to the benefit of the FOT Coffers. Joe Curry might have a few, but I took most of his last overrun and paid him for them. This decal makes frequent apprearances on cars and tow vehicles and tool boxes. Then it appears in magazines. (Not to mention Ted Schumacher's Shirts with the FoT Logo.....and the line from Kas Kastner "Never be beaten by equipment".) Anyway, send $5.00 for each 3' x 4" decal to: Friends of Triumph 645 1st Street Jesup, Iowa 50648 I will send then anywhere in the world by return mail. I'll donate the postage..... Joe Alexander From spitlist at cox.net Sun Sep 30 08:42:21 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:42:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FoT Stickers The LOGO seen around the world. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301c80370$1bbf1ff0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> I will be bringing my entire selection of Decals to Laughlin (Triumphest) in a few days. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 7:38 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] FoT Stickers The LOGO seen around the world. FoT & Bobby, I have a stock of the FOT Decals somewhere around my desk. Bobby Whitehead asks for access to these....seems like I should dispose of a few of these to the benefit of the FOT Coffers. Joe Curry might have a few, but I took most of his last overrun and paid him for them. This decal makes frequent apprearances on cars and tow vehicles and tool boxes. Then it appears in magazines. (Not to mention Ted Schumacher's Shirts with the FoT Logo.....and the line from Kas Kastner "Never be beaten by equipment".) Anyway, send $5.00 for each 3' x 4" decal to: Friends of Triumph 645 1st Street Jesup, Iowa 50648 I will send then anywhere in the world by return mail. I'll donate the postage..... Joe Alexander spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 08:48:55 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 10:48:55 EDT Subject: [Fot] 'Shirt Guys' are in Place for Watkins Glen Message-ID: FoT, Led by Scott Janzen, it looks like Marty Sukey and the Kahlers are involved, too. Scott is going to contact Shirt Supplier Ted Schumacher, for selections and quotes. The last run Ted made, he priced them to kick back a few bucks to the FoT Coffers. This is a welcome feature and we look forward to receiving the cash. Thanks, Ted! This WATKINS GLEN event shirt may end up being something really special. Plenty of time to be creative....and the right folks are in place. We may consider some advertising on the back of the shirt to defray set up costs. We likely will limit the number of advertisers, if we do it, so we dont clutter the shirt. If you are interested in advertising your company on the back of this shirt....please contact me. Joe Alexander From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Sep 30 09:06:15 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:06:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] elgibility question Message-ID: Hey you folks that run with all the different organizations. What is the current cut off year for vehicle elgibility for your Vintage race groups? Thanks, Marty _________________________________________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m kt=en-us From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 09:20:15 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:20:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] Laughlin, NV The Triumphest.... was FOT, The LOGO seen around the world. Message-ID: Triumphest! Good point! A few of us FoT will be at Laughlin for a few days. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday for Uncle Jack & Kent Howard. Joe Curry, will be there, as he says. Then some of us will visit the VARA Race in Las Vegas late Friday and Saturday. Anymore? Joe (A) > I will be bringing my entire selection of Decals to Laughlin (Triumphest) in > a few days. > > Joe C. > From tony at tonydrews.com Sun Sep 30 10:00:28 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:00:28 -0500 Subject: [Fot] elgibility question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070930160125.D808A187A28@autox.team.net> For VSCDA in the midwest, for production cars (I assume that's what you're really after), it's 1973. The model must have been in production in 1973, although your particular example may have been built after that. For monoposto, the cutoff is 1972. For "wings and slicks" monoposto, it's 1979. SVRA is similar. Most of the organizations list this on their websites. http://www.vscda.org/groups.html http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/weblinks/EJEN-5ZGGEU?OpenDocument http://www.hsrrace.com/HSR/HSRHome.nsf/attachmentweb/EJEN-62LRZH/$file/Race+Series+Classes.pdf?OpenElement http://vintagedrive.com/groups.htm (vdca) http://www.varac.ca/classes.html http://www.corinthianvintagerace.com/forms/cvarclasses.html (cvar) http://rmvr.com/category/groups/ I'm missing some of the west coast groups, I'm sure. - Tony At 10:06 AM 9/30/2007, marty sukey wrote: >Hey you folks that run with all the different organizations. What is the >current cut off year for vehicle elgibility for your Vintage race groups? >Thanks, > >Marty > >_________________________________________________________________ >Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. >It's easy! >http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m >kt=en-us >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >tony at tonydrews.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Sun Sep 30 10:13:24 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 09:13:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] elgibility question In-Reply-To: <20070930160125.D808A187A28@autox.team.net> References: <20070930160125.D808A187A28@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0709300913p2498635do1b9df7be0f2245b8@mail.gmail.com> For SOVREN in the Pacific Northwest, it is 1969. Some are arguing for 1972, but I sense there is much resistance -- that would cause some people to "upgrade" their cars -- and it is the cars not the drivers this group ties to emphasize. On 9/30/07, Tony Drews wrote: > > For VSCDA in the midwest, for production cars (I assume that's what > you're really after), it's 1973. The model must have been in > production in 1973, although your particular example may have been > built after that. For monoposto, the cutoff is 1972. For "wings and > slicks" monoposto, it's 1979. SVRA is similar. Most of the > organizations list this on their websites. > http://www.vscda.org/groups.html > http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/weblinks/EJEN-5ZGGEU?OpenDocument > > http://www.hsrrace.com/HSR/HSRHome.nsf/attachmentweb/EJEN-62LRZH/$file/Race+Series+Classes.pdf?OpenElement > > http://vintagedrive.com/groups.htm (vdca) > http://www.varac.ca/classes.html > http://www.corinthianvintagerace.com/forms/cvarclasses.html (cvar) > http://rmvr.com/category/groups/ > > I'm missing some of the west coast groups, I'm sure. > > - Tony > > At 10:06 AM 9/30/2007, marty sukey wrote: > >Hey you folks that run with all the different organizations. What is the > >current cut off year for vehicle elgibility for your Vintage race groups? > >Thanks, > > > >Marty > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live > Spaces. > >It's easy! > > > http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m > >kt=en-us > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >tony at tonydrews.com > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From spitfiresuz at 141.com Sun Sep 30 11:20:24 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 12:20:24 -0500 Subject: [Fot] elgibility question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46FFDAD8.3030504@141.com> CVAR is 1972, although I believe you may run up to a 1974 car that has been backdated to 1972 or earlier (no features that were not available in 1972). They have been working hard to crack down and get cars into the proper specs so we all play by the rules and not infringe upon them. Here's their eligibility paragraph: * 1. VEHICLE ELIGIBILITY / / * *All cars manufactured Prior to December 31. 1972, of any make or nationality are eligible, subject to classification under the current CVAR Vintage Race Car Classification Rules and/or approval of the Corinthian Vintage Auto Racing Corp. (CVAR) Vehicle Regulation Committee. December 31,1974 for vintage race cars that would be assigned to CVAR FIA class. All cars must be presented in race configuration consistent with their original period of manufacture. Modifications for safety purposes are permitted. Modifications may disqualify a car from its being placed in correct race group and as a result, be assigned to another appropriate race group or possibly be allowed only to participate in the Exhibition Group (Group 5). In addition, those cars may not be eligible to participate in CVAR's Championship Point . Rules for cars that are eligible to participate only in the Exhibition/Demonstration (Non-Race Group) Group are contained in paragraph 9. No turbo charged cars.* Keep Triumphing, Susan :) marty sukey wrote: > Hey you folks that run with all the different organizations. What is the > current cut off year for vehicle elgibility for your Vintage race groups? > Thanks, > > Marty > > _________________________________________________________________ > Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. > It's easy! > http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m > kt=en-us > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 30 12:31:57 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:31:57 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c80390$30fdea20$8d20b348@blake1> So, as a FOT wife I can hardly contain myself. I hear my husband tell stories of the many email threads and this one I could not pass up a comment. I think one of my husband's most prized positions in his garage hall of fame is the chrome viper piston I presented to him from my old job at Hennessey Motorsports. If you would like to talk about comfortable finances, let me know. I too can pick out the good from the crap. Please be aware before you start spouting off at the women on this list, that many of us had no brothers so we had to be the son for our daddies. Changing the oil in our mustangs at 16 and teaching our boyfriends how to do things on their cars. I challenge you to open your wife's jewelry drawer and pick out the real from the crap, or better yet pick the good pair out of the 6 pairs of black heels. Again, as said earlier, as long as theirs a paper trail to cover it right? But who is keeping score. After all it is all for fun right? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 11:38 AM To: Susan Kahler; dos_gusanos at msn.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot I was wondering how that possibly could stand. Especially since Terri and Susan are two of the most knowledgeable members of the FOT. I started to respond to the thread earlier with my technique for spending what I want on my toys, but realized that I don't really have one. I'm doubly blessed, not only with comfortable finances, but also with a wife that doesn't keep score. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Susan Kahler Sent: Fri 9/28/2007 7:41 PM To: dos_gusanos at msn.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P Susan :) dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper > trail.................................. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ablake2 at austin.rr.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 11:34:01 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:34:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] elgibility question Message-ID: "Carry Through" years in design, too, make certain cars eligible. 1962 TR4 did not change substantially until the IRS made it's appearance, even then it had a solid axle option until the TR250 arrived. A 1965 TR4 can run in "VINTAGE" even though it was produced later than the cutoff date of the sanctioning body. But most everyone likely knows this.... > CVAR is 1972, although I believe you may run up to a 1974 car that has > been backdated to 1972 or earlier (no features that were not available > in 1972). They have been working hard to crack down and get cars into > the proper specs so we all play by the rules and not infringe upon them. > > Here's their eligibility paragraph: > From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 11:47:49 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:47:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: "So, as a FOT wife I can hardly contain myself." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------- We've come a long way.... You should hear the video tape of local sportscaster Bob Brooks announcing the '53 and '54 LADIES Class races at the Iowa City Airport. It makes me cringe everytime I hear it. And to boot, Brooks knew nothing about cars, absolutely nothing....it made it very funny. Joe (A) > So, as a FOT wife I can hardly contain myself. > From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Sun Sep 30 12:13:48 2007 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:13:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070930131348.ttmc2sriocsok8c8@secure.uwalumni.com> Quoth N197TR4 at cs.com: > We've come a long way.... > > You should hear the video tape of local sportscaster Bob Brooks announcing > the '53 and '54 LADIES Class races at the Iowa City Airport. It > makes me cringe everytime I hear it. Back in the day (late 50's, early 60's) the CalClub/SCCA race for women only was called the "POWDER PUFF DERBY". Use of that term today would probably be a hanging offense. Jim Hill From spitfiresuz at 141.com Sun Sep 30 12:23:58 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:23:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <20070930131348.ttmc2sriocsok8c8@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <20070930131348.ttmc2sriocsok8c8@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <46FFE9BE.3050002@141.com> I took a course at the local repair shop back around 1982 that was called "Powder Puff Mechanics" and involved such things as how to check and change your oil and windshield washer fluid. I don't think we ever got to changing a tire. When I developed and taught a similar class in Dallas from around 1997-1999, I called it "Basic Car Care for Women," and it involved checking fluids on the students' own cars, how to "read" tires, how to change a tire (with student participation) and how to stay safe in the event of a problem on the road, among other things. I feel VERY strongly that anyone driving a car needs to know the basics about taking proper care of it and staying safe should something happen to it. Funny how some things come full circle... ;) Keep Triumphing, Susan :) spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: > Quoth N197TR4 at cs.com: > > >> We've come a long way.... >> >> You should hear the video tape of local sportscaster Bob Brooks announcing >> the '53 and '54 LADIES Class races at the Iowa City Airport. It >> makes me cringe everytime I hear it. >> > > Back in the day (late 50's, early 60's) the CalClub/SCCA race for > women only was called the "POWDER PUFF DERBY". Use of that term today > would probably be a hanging offense. > > Jim Hill > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From m-syork at comcast.net Sun Sep 30 13:47:15 2007 From: m-syork at comcast.net (Mark York) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 12:47:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets Message-ID: <000c01c8039a$b4139bd0$36b3c547@markv8zno7deim> I delivered a gasket set I purchased fro BFE to the shop building my TR3/4 race engine and they want copper figure 8 gaskets instead of the steel ones in the set. They claim that the copper gaskets seal much better and have stopped the build waiting on the new gaskets. What are your thoughts copper vs steel? Does the copper gasket allow them to be "looser" when building the engine? Are these gaskets really steel or some other material? Who makes copper figure 8 gaskets (maybe Mordy)? Thank you Mark From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sun Sep 30 14:01:24 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:01:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets References: <000c01c8039a$b4139bd0$36b3c547@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: <002b01c8039c$adfd4fa0$0501000a@Chowdown> Another question.. Are the copper ones also covered with a thin plastic film? ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark York" To: Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 12:47 PM Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets >I delivered a gasket set I purchased fro BFE to the shop building my TR3/4 > race engine and they want copper figure 8 gaskets instead of the steel > ones > in the set. They claim that the copper gaskets seal much better and have > stopped the build waiting on the new gaskets. What are your thoughts > copper > vs steel? Does the copper gasket allow them to be "looser" when building > the > engine? Are these gaskets really steel or some other material? > > Who makes copper figure 8 gaskets (maybe Mordy)? > > Thank you > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 30 14:02:06 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:02:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets In-Reply-To: <000c01c8039a$b4139bd0$36b3c547@markv8zno7deim> References: <000c01c8039a$b4139bd0$36b3c547@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: <0C69A719-CE92-4442-BFCA-A5ACFE1D8D78@bnj.com> Copper figure eight gaskets sound nice, but I'd get out a cattle prod and get them back to work (unless it's Garmey, and in that case you need a Sheep prod--sort of a Kiwi joke there). The gaskets are mostly space. If you got some teeny grit on the sealing faces then a highly annealed copper gasket might let it punch in instead of standing proud, but that's pretty out there. I can't imagine copper gaskets deforming under the sealing pressure of a cylinder base--too much surface area and the copper is too wide and too hard. Mordy undoubtedly knows best, but it sounds goofy to me. A thin coat of right stuff on a stocker gasket, and just the right thickness to stand all the cylinder flanges evenly above the block face a couple of thou (after you put the head on without a gasket and torque it to about ten pounds, then remove it and check the cylinder protrusion) and Bob's yer uncle. Who is doing the work for you? If it really is Garmey, forget I said anything, the kid knows what he's doing. Or at least Gene, his father in law, does. On Sep 30, 2007, at 12:47 PM, Mark York wrote: > I delivered a gasket set I purchased fro BFE to the shop building > my TR3/4 > race engine and they want copper figure 8 gaskets instead of the > steel ones > in the set. They claim that the copper gaskets seal much better and > have > stopped the build waiting on the new gaskets. What are your > thoughts copper > vs steel? Does the copper gasket allow them to be "looser" when > building the > engine? Are these gaskets really steel or some other material? > > Who makes copper figure 8 gaskets (maybe Mordy)? > > Thank you > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 15:42:40 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:42:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets Message-ID: I really dont think it makes a difference. We have used both. In fact I dont remember seeing copper gaskets recently. We have made and used circular gasket in mild steel in different thicknesses with the laser process, when setting liner height. In any case, NEVER a problem with sealing at the liner seat, that I ever remember. But Mordy, I suspect, could make you some. Joe (A) > > I delivered a gasket set I purchased fro BFE to the shop building my TR3/4 > race engine and they want copper figure 8 gaskets instead of the steel ones > in the set. They claim that the copper gaskets seal much better and have > stopped the build waiting on the new gaskets. What are your thoughts copper > vs steel? Does the copper gasket allow them to be "looser" when building the > engine? Are these gaskets really steel or some other material? > > Who makes copper figure 8 gaskets (maybe Mordy)? > > Thank you > > Mark > From chris at tr4-racing.de Sun Sep 30 15:57:27 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:57:27 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife.... Message-ID: <002301c803ac$e4b7d410$6402a8c0@HOME> Some photos from the last week Nordschleife race.... http://www.tr4-racing.de/pic/2007/nordschleife/index.html cheers chris From chris at tr4-racing.de Sun Sep 30 16:10:07 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 00:10:07 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife.... References: <002301c803ac$e4b7d410$6402a8c0@HOME> <47001DD0.80001@blacksburg.net> Message-ID: <003501c803ae$aeed01a0$6402a8c0@HOME> Very true....but next year....I DO race on this track! > Chris, schade Ihr TR4 ist nicht da :-( > > Jim > > -- > J.C. Hassall > Blacksburg VA > 64 TR4 in autox preparation > 95% finished, 90% to go From chris at tr4-racing.de Sun Sep 30 16:22:20 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 00:22:20 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife.... Message-ID: <004501c803b0$5e73bd70$6402a8c0@HOME> This guy has crashed flies on the side windows.. :-)) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Thomd4BQg From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 16:38:41 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 18:38:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] Engine Autopsy TR4 #197 short version Message-ID: FOT The short version is that it appears that the valves siezed in #2 cylinder....the bronze guides may not have been clearanced enough. Jack checked them at .002 & .0025 ID. We are going back to OEM style guides. Too many horror stories and no real benefit in bronze, methinks. The outcomes were bent push rods, bent valves, destroyed piston and liner & bent (but not broken) con rod. Block is junk, but crank appears to be intact with only a nice polish of journals needed. I remain very pleased with the idea of the Chevy Rods residing in this engine and plan to stay the course. Perhaps some Wiseco Pistons are in my future, as they require no pin end spacers to centralize the rod. I was hoping that the camshaft had been destroyed, as it would have caused me to replace it with the new cam design that now available from Larry Young. After observing The Drews Brothers, there is something of substance going on there for those who like to run fast in the mid-range of RPM. (Hats off to Larry Young...with Jack participating in the process) Joe (A) From billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 30 18:04:06 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:04:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear end In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <662E429B-D787-440A-8245-068C82092DDF@bnj.com> I'm rebuilding the bits of Peyote while waiting for the fame to be done. Got most of the bends and tweaks out last week, now I need to weld up the cracks and have a few minor mods to the roll cage done. I want a little more room in the driver's compartment. Anyway, I decided to redo the diff and put in the 3.90 gearset I have. When I took the cover off I found all the ring gear bolts were finger tight--most were turned out several turns, and one was completely out and bouncing around in the diff case--for some time it seems. I found one of the wheel bearings has some rough spots in it, probably brinneling. I'll replace both. The big surprise was that once I put the new gearset in, it was perfect as far as shimming is concerned. I'm kind of surprised by that. The gear engagement patterns were perfectly centered, deep in the tooth, with a little bit of drag. I'm wondering if these gears are a bit more precisely made than I expected. Took me hours to get that kind of engagement with the previous set. Does anyone know what the tunnels are for in the diff case? They look like they would be perfect for using the ring gear as a pump wheel for pumping diff oil through a cooler. I assume they are to lube the front pinion bearing, but they look a little too purposeful for that. I wonder how many more runs I could have had with that diff before it blew to bits. From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net Sun Sep 30 19:31:59 2007 From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 21:31:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Rear end Message-ID: <380-2200710111315979@earthlink.net> Bill...caught that diff just in time!!...you are correct, the tunnels in the case are for lubricating the pinion bearing Chip Collingwood > [Original Message] > From: Bill Babcock > To: fot Triumph > Date: 9/30/2007 8:04:39 PM > Subject: [Fot] Rear end > > I'm rebuilding the bits of Peyote while waiting for the fame to be > done. Got most of the bends and tweaks out last week, now I need to > weld up the cracks and have a few minor mods to the roll cage done. I > want a little more room in the driver's compartment. > > Anyway, I decided to redo the diff and put in the 3.90 gearset I > have. When I took the cover off I found all the ring gear bolts were > finger tight--most were turned out several turns, and one was > completely out and bouncing around in the diff case--for some time it > seems. > > I found one of the wheel bearings has some rough spots in it, > probably brinneling. I'll replace both. The big surprise was that > once I put the new gearset in, it was perfect as far as shimming is > concerned. I'm kind of surprised by that. The gear engagement > patterns were perfectly centered, deep in the tooth, with a little > bit of drag. I'm wondering if these gears are a bit more precisely > made than I expected. Took me hours to get that kind of engagement > with the previous set. > > Does anyone know what the tunnels are for in the diff case? They look > like they would be perfect for using the ring gear as a pump wheel > for pumping diff oil through a cooler. I assume they are to lube the > front pinion bearing, but they look a little too purposeful for that. > > I wonder how many more runs I could have had with that diff before it > blew to bits. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > tr6racer21 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1039 - Release Date: 9/29/2007 9:46 PM From billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 30 19:39:24 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 18:39:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife.... In-Reply-To: <004501c803b0$5e73bd70$6402a8c0@HOME> References: <004501c803b0$5e73bd70$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <8FF07827-6182-4BC4-A8EF-078355CFDA13@bnj.com> I think the Nordschleife would be fun with a Radical, you'd have to set the ride height up pretty height though. A lot of those curves beg for light weight and some ground effects. On Sep 30, 2007, at 3:22 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > This guy has crashed flies on the side windows.. :-)) > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Thomd4BQg > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sun Sep 30 19:41:09 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:41:09 +1000 Subject: [Fot] Oil Filter Message-ID: Is anyone on the list using the "PURE POWER" type of reusable / cleanable filters on their engine? If so do you have some feedback on this product? I am looking at this alternative to replace the STD filter insert on the TR4 engine. Thanks Kind Regards Peter Vucinic TR-4 _____________________________________________ Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 30 19:45:46 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 18:45:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife.... In-Reply-To: <002301c803ac$e4b7d410$6402a8c0@HOME> References: <002301c803ac$e4b7d410$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: Nice pix. That reminds me, I posted a full gallery of the AllAluminumTour photos at http://gallery.mac.com/billbab I didn't remove the duplicates or add captions yet, so it's kind of a mess, though it's arranged by events thanks to the new event feature in iPhoto. On Sep 30, 2007, at 2:57 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > Some photos from the last week Nordschleife race.... > > > http://www.tr4-racing.de/pic/2007/nordschleife/index.html > > cheers > chris > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Sun Sep 30 20:00:09 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:00:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Oil Filter References: Message-ID: Hi Peter.I would put on an adapter for a spin on filter...you can always keep the original stuff on your garage shelf in case you want to sell or show the car Racer Bud in sonoma, Ca. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Vucinic" To: Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:41 PM Subject: [Fot] Oil Filter > Is anyone on the list using the "PURE POWER" type of reusable / cleanable > filters on their engine? > > If so do you have some feedback on this product? > > > > I am looking at this alternative to replace the STD filter insert on the > TR4 > engine. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Kind Regards > > Peter Vucinic > > TR-4 > > _____________________________________________ > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Sun Sep 30 20:34:20 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 02:34:20 GMT Subject: [Fot] Bill Troup's TR4 Message-ID: <20070930.223420.11184.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> While at racing at the SCCA NARRC Chapionship race at Lime Rock this past weekend some folks that raced in the 1960's-70's were telling me about a TR4 that Bill Troup (spelling???) built and raced in the Northeast. Sounded like a car that was ahead of its time. Is anyone familiar with what happened to the car? Apparently Bill passed away some time ago and no one that I came across knew what happened to the car. Joe(B) _____________________________________________________________ Largest network of startups. Find new startup opportunities. Click here. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlQfILSztxbTZwew2l7Kv0yZSO 8EeKiUMGpbYyvqLlWgoamO/ From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Sun Sep 30 21:03:12 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:03:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Bill Troup's TR4 In-Reply-To: <20070930.223420.11184.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> References: <20070930.223420.11184.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <000901c803d7$9bf3fe90$1442a8c0@semperon3400> Bill Troop (I think that's how it was spelled) was a teacher or principle of one of the prep schools in the area I believe. He had a nice wife and pretty daughter as crew. I remember him stripping the shell off his new enclosed trailer towing around the track at Lime Rock and under the bridge... It must have been in the early '80s last I saw him at the track. Probably a NER member, he was an instructor at the MoHud SCCA driver school at least once. I should have photos somewhere... Of course. Nice dark green car. He suddenly stopped coming to races, perhaps something happened over the winter back then or the daughter went to college...? Clark From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 30 21:40:30 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 22:40:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets References: Message-ID: <005801c803dc$d346cc60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Isn't the difference in the thickness? If I recall the copper, which are no longer sold measure around 17 thou and the steel ones are closer to 15. It's nice to have a couple of thicker ones in the spares box when you want to get the protrusion correct with some of the liners on the market today. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets >I really dont think it makes a difference. We have used both. In fact I >dont > remember seeing copper gaskets recently. > > We have made and used circular gasket in mild steel in different > thicknesses > with the laser process, when setting liner height. > > In any case, NEVER a problem with sealing at the liner seat, that I ever > remember. > > But Mordy, I suspect, could make you some. > > Joe (A) > > >> >> I delivered a gasket set I purchased fro BFE to the shop building my >> TR3/4 >> race engine and they want copper figure 8 gaskets instead of the steel >> ones >> in the set. They claim that the copper gaskets seal much better and have >> stopped the build waiting on the new gaskets. What are your thoughts >> copper >> vs steel? Does the copper gasket allow them to be "looser" when building >> the >> engine? Are these gaskets really steel or some other material? >> >> Who makes copper figure 8 gaskets (maybe Mordy)? >> >> Thank you >> >> Mark >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Sat Sep 1 21:23:58 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 21:23:58 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Colfax Cruise Message-ID: <20070901.212359.3860.9.wgrosenbach@juno.com> For those in the area. . . Please see the information below about the Colfax Avenue Cruise. COLFAX AVENUE CRUISE  2007 The Colfax Avenue Cruise will be held September 22, 2007. This is an event that Old Car Council of Colorado has had in the planning stage for two years. Sponsorship is in place and here is what is planned. The cruise will have three sites set up on Colfax Avenue. The sites are the Super K-Mart at Colfax Aveny ue and Chambers Road, East High School, and the Festival Center at Colfax Avenue and Irving Street in west Denver. Each site will have a car display by OCCC member cars, music, food vendors, car club displays, and other car-related displays by vendors. The sites will operate from 4 pm to 8 pm. The car club members working at the sites will help with site set-up, site operation, and site clean up. The Colorado Chapter of POCI will be teamed with the Colorado Cobra Club and the Packard Club to operate the site at East High School. The Sabers Club and the AMC Club will anchor the Aurora site and the Denver Roadster Club and the ColoRODans will man the site in west Denver. The promotion of the Colfax Avenue Cruise will be by radio station KOOL105. The radio station will also help with music at each of the sites. The charity to benefit from the event is D.A.R.E.. D.A.R.E officers will be present at each site and have a display vehicle and give-aways for kids. The main sponsors of the event are the network of Colorado Select Car Care Centers and NAPA Auto Parts. The money from the sponsors will be used to finance operation of the sites (permits, security, rental of equipment), fund a donation to D.A.R.E., and the fund the operation of OCCC. The car clubs operating the sites will profit from the sale of tee shirt s and fees from the vendors at the sites. The Colfax Avenue Cruise is going to be great and you will want to get in on the ground floor of this annual event. This event needs your support. We need to have a variety of cars on display at the sites on Saturday, September 22. The Colfax Avenue Cruse an event that is important to the future of the old car hobby. It is important that this event be a success so that we strengthening the financial position of the Old Car Council of Colorado. We believe that the OCCC is an important organization in the preservation of the old cars. Make a Commitment and join us to support the old car hobby. From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 2 17:29:26 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 19:29:26 EDT Subject: [Fot] Multi function brake switch Message-ID: Amici, Does anyone know of a hydraulic brake switch with both normally open and normally closed contacts. When you push the brakes the brake light circuit closes but another circuit opens? Any idea how to find such a thing? Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 2 17:36:51 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 19:36:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Multi function brake switch Message-ID: In a message dated 9/2/2007 4:34:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, mdporter at dfn.com writes: > > Amici, > > Does anyone know of a hydraulic brake switch with both normally open and > > normally closed contacts. When you push the brakes the brake light > circuit closes > > but another circuit opens? Any idea how to find such a thing? Steve > > > > > > > > > Never heard of such, but, whatever you want to do with something like > that can be done with a relay in the circuit. > > > Quite true, I'm just trying to avoid that complexity in an already overcrowded Jaguar engine bay...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 2 18:10:15 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 20:10:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] Multi function brake switch Message-ID: Almost exactly the same need. I want to drop out the OD circuit on a 700R4 trans when the brakes are applied. Do you have any numbers for those Bosch switches? Thanx, Steve Steve, You can use a commodity Bosch relay. These have normally open and normally closed contacts. They are apparently used all over modern cars, so can be had very cheaply. I use one for my overdrive wiring, so that I can use the a switch on the reverse gear to lock out the overdrive, which is opposite from the normal switch arrangement. Larry _Gt6steve at aol.com_ (mailto:Gt6steve at aol.com) wrote Almost exactly my ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From cartravel at pobox.com Sun Sep 2 18:49:14 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 19:49:14 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Multi function brake switch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46DB5A0A.2050408@pobox.com> I believe this is the one I'm using http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=330-070. Some of the stuff sold at Napa, etc. don't have both circuits (SPST not SPDT). Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: > Almost exactly the same need. I want to drop out the OD circuit on a > 700R4 trans when the brakes are applied. Do you have any numbers for > those Bosch switches? > > Thanx, Steve > > Steve, > You can use a commodity Bosch relay. These have normally open and > normally closed contacts. They are apparently used all over > modern cars, so can be had very cheaply. I use one for my > overdrive wiring, so that I can use the a switch on the reverse > gear to lock out the overdrive, which is opposite from the normal > switch arrangement. > Larry > > Gt6steve at aol.com wrote > > Almost exactly my > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com > . From awashatko at wi.rr.com Mon Sep 3 10:31:27 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 11:31:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 TR6 Front Brakes Message-ID: FoT, Does anyone have any technical information regarding the use of Jag calipers/rotors/hubs on the Group 44 TR6? VSCDA would allow me to run these but I can't seem to find any specific information. Any help would be much appreciated. Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Mon Sep 3 12:12:50 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 11:12:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 TR6 Front Brakes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46DC4EA2.8060608@cyberspeedway.net> Allen, As I remember, the Jag brakes were allowed in 1980. They are originally from the XKE V12 and god knows what else. They are the odd 3 piston design. The part numbers are still in the PCS. The rotors are the same as XKE V12 and XJ6. I think Rod Kent has drawings for the hub and spindle from Group 44. I will see if I can get them. Greg Lund Allen Washatko wrote: > FoT, > > Does anyone have any technical information regarding the use of Jag > calipers/rotors/hubs on the Group 44 TR6? VSCDA would allow me to run > these but I can't seem to find any specific information. > > Any help would be much appreciated. > > Allen > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gtlund at cyberspeedway.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Sep 3 13:09:22 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 15:09:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Group 44 TR6 Front Brakes Message-ID: In a message dated 09/03/2007 1:13:20 PM Central Daylight Time, gtlund at cyberspeedway.net writes: > As I remember, the Jag brakes were allowed in 1980. They are > originally from the XKE V12 and god knows what else. They are the odd 3 > piston design. The part numbers are still in the PCS. The rotors are the > same as XKE V12 and XJ6. I think Rod Kent has drawings for the hub and > spindle from Group 44. I will see if I can get them. > Allen... I'm leaving late tonight for WATKINS GLEN, but I plan to be back in time to run ELKHART LAKE the following week end. We may have some of that stuff. The Thunder Bolt had early XKE brakes on the front when we started out with her. But we busted a rotor at Blackhawk one time and instead of replacing it we detuned to TR4 disc brakes (because we understand them). Regardless, that stuff should be available from JAG spare houses like Terry's Jaguar. Bill Terry is a neat, dependable guy. Bill Dentinger ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Mon Sep 3 15:15:30 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 14:15:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 TR6 Front Brakes In-Reply-To: <000001c7ee5d$d5567210$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> References: <46DC4EA2.8060608@cyberspeedway.net> <000001c7ee5d$d5567210$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> Message-ID: <46DC7972.709@cyberspeedway.net> Rod and his brother Dale have just about finished putting it back together after the wreck at the Runoffs in '98. The only straight panel on the car was the passenger door. The car was completely stripped and rebuilt. The paint scheme is like the Kastner-Brophy #12 in the same colors as near as Dale could get it. It should be back on track for a few Regionals this fall. Greg Mike Munson wrote: > Greg, > I need a set of the drawings as well. > > Is Rod still racing his car? > Is it still around? From vintage.racer at comcast.net Mon Sep 3 20:24:55 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 19:24:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] rubber mounted SUs Message-ID: <001a01c7ee9a$c8d0a640$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: I've just installed the Weber-style rubber "O" ring carb mounts in place of the solid insulation blocks that normally go between the carbs and intake manifold. For those that have completed this installation, how much torque is recommended for the nuts to hold the carbs in place with compressing the rubber to much? Thanks. Gary '62 TR4 From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Sep 3 20:58:52 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 20:58:52 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Hastings 9/6 Message-ID: Evening all... just found out it will be standing room only @ Hastings with 147 entries. Just like the old RMVR days! Real nice to hear... A few Spits & TR's & lil' ole' me in the GT#6. Kevin From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Tue Sep 4 00:29:38 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 23:29:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks Message-ID: <000201c7eebc$f818ddb0$4a7aac43@computer> Any suggestions as to what oil to use in the stock rear shocks in a TR6 for autox and race but no street use. I was going to use motorcycle fork oil but I wasn't sure what weight. I see Kas says to use #40 racing oil but I'm not exactly sure what that is. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Tue Sep 4 08:20:39 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 10:20:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Lime Rock Labor Day Vintage event In-Reply-To: <000201c7eebc$f818ddb0$4a7aac43@computer> References: <000201c7eebc$f818ddb0$4a7aac43@computer> Message-ID: <003101c7eefe$c6bf2cf0$1442a8c0@semperon3400> The annual Lime Rock Vintage event was nice but underwhelming to say the least. 10-15 car race groups on Monday due to attrition... And small entries. Pity The paddocks were half full (try to be optimistic). It looks like Peyote broke, but I don't know the story and didn't get over to say hello... On to Watkins Glen tomorrow for the real big one (crewing for #928 MG-TD)! Clark My photos of LRP are here: http://picasaweb.google.com/Milo066 From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Tue Sep 4 15:30:29 2007 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 17:30:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks References: <000201c7eebc$f818ddb0$4a7aac43@computer> Message-ID: <001301c7ef3a$d12edf00$64092218@alex> Moss motors can sell you a qt. and Apple products a long time rebuilder of leverarms from all eras and makes recomends just 15wght. rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:29 AM Subject: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks > Any suggestions as to what oil to use in the stock rear shocks in a TR6 > for > autox and race but no street use. I was going to use motorcycle fork oil > but I wasn't sure what weight. I see Kas says to use #40 racing oil but > I'm > not exactly sure what that is. > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > 19to1tr6 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Sep 3 23:07:32 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 22:07:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Limited Slip diffs Message-ID: Foter's, I was gone all weekend and haven't been able to get email while away. Anyway, Ken has replied to me that he can take Visa or MC credit cards for the deposit and the full payment. The price of the units will be about $1500 plus any local shipping. Ken has also told me he may have found a way to save on the freight from England. One person has mentioned sending the items Greyhound and I would have to check with Ken about that first though. I can also get a mailing address for those wishing to send Ken a check. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 Kens information is as follows: British Frame and Engine Telephone/Fax: 626-443-0939 Email: bfeken at copper.net ---------------------------------------- From: "Charly Mitchel" Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 12:43 PM To: fot at autox.team.net>, "Charly Mitchel" > >> >> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: fot-bounces+ryoung=navcomtech.com at autox.team.net >>> [mailto:fot-bounces+ryoung=navcomtech.com at autox.team.net] On >>> Behalf Of Charly Mitchel >>> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 12:49 PM >>> To: fot at autox.team.net >>> Subject: [Fot] Limited Slip diffs >>> >>> I've got a cost on the Tran-X units or at least an estimated >>> cost. The >>> unknown cost are the duty on the items paid upon relapse from >>> customs and the >>> shipping to each individual buyer. >>> >>> Ken Gillanders tells me the cost will be about $1500 plus the >>> local shipping >>> costs. >>> This is not a definite cost but a very close estimate. >>> Please let me know if >>> you're interested. >>> Charly Mitchel >>> TR6 #44 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> ryoung at navcomtech.com >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >>> CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files >>> transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to >>> NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are >>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to >>> whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence >>> and not disclosed to third parties without the written >>> consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient >>> or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail >>> to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received >>> this electronic mail in error and that any use, >>> dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this >>> electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received >>> this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the >>> sender by return mail. >>> >> >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it >> may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of >> its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or >> entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and >> not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. >> If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for >> delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that >> you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, >> dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail >> is >> strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, >> please immediately notify the sender by return mail. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> charly at mitchelplumbing.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Catpusher at aol.com Tue Sep 4 22:45:32 2007 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 00:45:32 EDT Subject: [Fot] Subject: rubber mounted SUs Message-ID: I used spiral springs/and or/rubber like washers under nylock nuts retaining the SUs, and found that minor adjustments made major BHP/RPM changes on the dyno. What SUs are you using? Are you using a cold air box mounted to them? Hardy Hello: I've just installed the Weber-style rubber "O" ring carb mounts in place of the solid insulation blocks that normally go between the carbs and intake manifold. For those that have completed this installation, how much torque is recommended for the nuts to hold the carbs in place with compressing the rubber to much? Thanks. Gary '62 TR4 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Catpusher at aol.com Tue Sep 4 23:00:30 2007 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 01:00:30 EDT Subject: [Fot] Subject: Group 44 TR6 Front Brakes Message-ID: They were from the Series 3 E Type Jaguar (V12) and one year of XJ. The calipers bolt directly to the TR4A/6 standard brackets. I used Tilton hubs that PLN had paid Tilton to design. I ran this setup for quite a few seasons. Hardy Does anyone have any technical information regarding the use of Jag calipers/rotors/hubs on the Group 44 TR6? VSCDA would allow me to run these but I can't seem to find any specific information. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From chris at tr4-racing.de Wed Sep 5 00:15:26 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 08:15:26 +0200 Subject: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks Message-ID: <3424F4C248214151973872FF500003FE@Notebook> I use a mixture of EP 320 and EP 680 gearbox oil. You'll need an lever extension to remove air from the shocks. Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Drews To: chris at tr4-racing.de Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:27 PM Subject: Fwd: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks Delivered-To: tony at tonydrews.com X-Virus-Scan: Scanned by clamdmail 0.15 (no viruses); Tue, 04 Sep 2007 01:30:03 -0500 X-Original-To: FOT at autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot at autox.team.net From: "jim hearn" To: Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 23:29:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/mixed by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Subject: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks X-BeenThere: fot at autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 List-Id: Friends of Triumph List-Unsubscribe: < http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot>, < mailto:fot-request at autox.team.net?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: < http://autox.team.net/pipermail/fot> List-Post: < mailto:fot at autox.team.net> List-Help: < mailto:fot-request at autox.team.net?subject=help> List-Subscribe: < http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot>, < mailto:fot-request at autox.team.net?subject=subscribe> Sender: fot-bounces+tony=tonydrews.com at autox.team.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on localhost X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=disabled version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: Any suggestions as to what oil to use in the stock rear shocks in a TR6 for autox and race but no street use. I was going to use motorcycle fork oil but I wasn't sure what weight. I see Kas says to use #40 racing oil but I'm not exactly sure what that is. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tony at tonydrews.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From RYoung at navcomtech.com Wed Sep 5 14:56:17 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 13:56:17 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR3 bore sizes? In-Reply-To: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A5C1D37@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> References: <520161.3333.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A5C1D37@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Message-ID: > Forgetting the liners for a moment what about the stuck Grose > jets in TR6's? I have seen that many times. I've been seeing a lot more stuck float valves of every sort (both Grose and non-Grose, SU, ZS, non-CD, etc.) the last few years than I ever saw before. Even my lawnmower caught the disease ! Doesn't prove anything I know, but I believe it's a change in gasoline formulation. Old gasoline would form a soft brown deposit much like old varnish; while the new stuff seems to form a much harder, whitish deposit. FWIW, I got mad at the stuck float valve on the Stag a couple days ago, and rather than pulling the carb, blew some compressed air through the fuel line. Amazingly enough, it actually worked (after it blew apart the joint that wasn't clamped properly ) Randall From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Wed Sep 5 18:36:50 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 17:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] 1147 Crank Seal Message-ID: <291682.96881.qm@web53509.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hey FOT, I have located and purchased an 1147 crank for my race car, there is a difference from the crank I had before in that on the flywheel end of the crank there is a "scroll" (looks like threads so as it rotates it returns oil back to the block) in the fat end. It appears that this design would "sling" the oil back into the block, but I am not sure of the purpose. My question is, does this type of crank design use the same rear seal as the crank without the "scroll"??? Or do I need a different type of seal?? Thanks Jay --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From Herald948 at aol.com Wed Sep 5 19:30:41 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 21:30:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] 1147 Crank Seal Message-ID: In a message dated 9/5/2007 8:37:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: I have located and purchased an 1147 crank for my race car, there is a difference from the crank I had before in that on the flywheel end of the crank there is a "scroll" (looks like threads so as it rotates it returns oil back to the block) in the fat end. It appears that this design would "sling" the oil back into the block, but I am not sure of the purpose. My question is, does this type of crank design use the same rear seal as the crank without the "scroll"??? Or do I need a different type of seal?? Jay, others will, I'm sure, be able to give you much more detail, but it sounds like the crank you got is the earlier type and does indeed have the "scroll" to fling the oil back into the engine. If I remember correctly, it has -- instead of an oil seal and its housing -- what the spare parts catalogue calls the "oil retaining cover -- rear." I also recall that this crank was used until fairly late in the Mk2 Spitfires, then the later crank was used through the early 1296 "small journal" blocks. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Gt6steve at aol.com Wed Sep 5 19:37:55 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 21:37:55 EDT Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? Message-ID: Amici. Are any of the western FOT going to Buttonwillow? I'm still totally ambivalent but find myself polishing the car. Give me some incentive to head for the only track I hate...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From klynch_6 at msn.com Wed Sep 5 20:31:54 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 20:31:54 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? References: Message-ID: How about a track you'd love? Hastings! ok, I tried... http://www.racemph.com/ Kev ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 7:37 PM Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? Amici. Are any of the western FOT going to Buttonwillow? I'm still totally ambivalent but find myself polishing the car. Give me some incentive to head for the only track I hate...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From norlinengineering at comcast.net Wed Sep 5 20:53:54 2007 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 19:53:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 1147 Crank Seal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c7f031$2a8c4cd0$020ba8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP> Jay What Andy has told you is accurate from what I know. The scroll seal on the early cranks worked just like the scroll seal on the front of the early stock gearboxes. What is normally done for racing is to have a sleeve made from stainless steel to eliminate the scroll and bring the diameter out to match the oil seal dimension of the later cranks. If you don't want to do this for some reason, I've probably got one or more of the old style "oil retaining covers" buried in my stash of stuff. Jim Norlin -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 6:31 PM To: jaxonracing at yahoo.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] 1147 Crank Seal In a message dated 9/5/2007 8:37:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: I have located and purchased an 1147 crank for my race car, there is a difference from the crank I had before in that on the flywheel end of the crank there is a "scroll" (looks like threads so as it rotates it returns oil back to the block) in the fat end. It appears that this design would "sling" the oil back into the block, but I am not sure of the purpose. My question is, does this type of crank design use the same rear seal as the crank without the "scroll"??? Or do I need a different type of seal?? Jay, others will, I'm sure, be able to give you much more detail, but it sounds like the crank you got is the earlier type and does indeed have the "scroll" to fling the oil back into the engine. If I remember correctly, it has -- instead of an oil seal and its housing -- what the spare parts catalogue calls the "oil retaining cover -- rear." I also recall that this crank was used until fairly late in the Mk2 Spitfires, then the later crank was used through the early 1296 "small journal" blocks. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From brad.kahler at 141.com Wed Sep 5 21:21:43 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:21:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] 1147 Crank Seal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46DF7247.2080705@141.com> Herald948 at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/5/2007 8:37:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > I have located and purchased an 1147 crank for my race car, there is a > difference from the crank I had before in that on the flywheel end of the crank > there is a "scroll" (looks like threads so as it rotates it returns oil back > to the block) in the fat end. It appears that this design would "sling" the > oil back into the block, but I am not sure of the purpose. > > My question is, does this type of crank design use the same rear seal as the > crank without the "scroll"??? Or do I need a different type of seal?? > > > Jay, others will, I'm sure, be able to give you much more detail, but it > sounds like the crank you got is the earlier type and does indeed have the > "scroll" to fling the oil back into the engine. If I remember correctly, it has -- > instead of an oil seal and its housing -- what the spare parts catalogue > calls the "oil retaining cover -- rear." I also recall that this crank was used > until fairly late in the Mk2 Spitfires, then the later crank was used through > the early 1296 "small journal" blocks. > > One thing to add to Andy's post is the 1147 crank will work in a 1296 engine just fine. All you hae to do is install a Speedi-Sleeve part number 99287 from either National or CR. We're currently running an 1147 crank with a Speedi-Sleeve installed in Susan's race car. Works just fine! Brad From chasgee at aol.com Wed Sep 5 22:47:45 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 00:47:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9BE58337013FA-F14-6DF5@MBLK-M01.sysops.aol.com> I'm going....I'll bring beer, is that enough incentive? Chuck Blacksmith Racing -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 6:37 pm Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? Amici. Are any of the western FOT going to Buttonwillow? I'm still totally ambivalent but find myself polishing the car. Give me some incentive to head for the only track I hate...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From mlbruner53 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 5 22:53:03 2007 From: mlbruner53 at yahoo.com (Michael Bruner) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 21:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <383591.1615.qm@web54112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I'm going I'll bring the Jack, is that enough incentive? Mike Bruner Blacksmith Racing #612 Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: Amici. Are any of the western FOT going to Buttonwillow? I'm still totally ambivalent but find myself polishing the car. Give me some incentive to head for the only track I hate...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour mlbruner53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Mike Bruner TR4A - #612 Blacksmith Racing --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. From jfrymark at aol.com Thu Sep 6 13:09:23 2007 From: jfrymark at aol.com (John Frymark) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:09:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow Message-ID: <8001B7A9-7978-4323-A057-D9C42C3EFA7B@aol.com> Well I guess you won't need the MARGARATOR, so count me out! John Frymark From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 17:00:07 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 16:00:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow References: <8001B7A9-7978-4323-A057-D9C42C3EFA7B@aol.com> Message-ID: <000701c7f0d9$ac0337d0$0301000a@Chowdown> Dudes, my wife is pregnant. I ain't goin racin' till hopefully Willow in Nov. ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frymark" To: "Steve Smith" ; "Mike Bruner" ; "Chuck Gee" Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:09 PM Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow > Well I guess you won't need the MARGARATOR, so count me out! > > John Frymark > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jfrymark at aol.com Thu Sep 6 18:31:53 2007 From: jfrymark at aol.com (John Frymark) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 17:31:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow In-Reply-To: <000701c7f0d9$ac0337d0$0301000a@Chowdown> References: <8001B7A9-7978-4323-A057-D9C42C3EFA7B@aol.com> <000701c7f0d9$ac0337d0$0301000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <3C72F9F7-633C-4210-AB70-866110E3A1BF@aol.com> Yeah...right! John On Sep 6, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Steve Belfer wrote: > Dudes, my wife is pregnant. I ain't goin racin' till hopefully > Willow in Nov. > > ~Steve > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frymark" > To: "Steve Smith" ; "Mike Bruner" > ; "Chuck Gee" > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:09 PM > Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow > > >> Well I guess you won't need the MARGARATOR, so count me out! >> >> John Frymark >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> colordog.1 at earthlink.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Sep 6 20:30:20 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 21:30:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Motor Oil Message-ID: FoT, After all the discussions about motor oil, what is the current general consensus on the usable brands? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Sep 6 21:10:58 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 22:10:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Rear Diff Message-ID: FoT, Anyone have a lead on a 4:11 or 4:33 rear diff for a TR6? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From chris at tr4-racing.de Fri Sep 7 01:48:24 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 09:48:24 +0200 Subject: [Fot] AUDI R8 UNPLUGGED Message-ID: <002001c7f123$78bf49a0$6402a8c0@HOME> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFFb39n1XrM From Gt6steve at aol.com Fri Sep 7 06:16:16 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 08:16:16 EDT Subject: [Fot] Motor Oil Message-ID: In a message dated 9/6/2007 7:30:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: FoT, After all the discussions about motor oil, what is the current general consensus on the usable brands? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 I like them... ;-0 Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Fri Sep 7 08:46:09 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 07:46:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c7f15d$d42474c0$4a7aac43@computer> Steve, I'm just curious. I never have even seen Buttonwillow but why is it that you hate it? Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gt6steve at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 6:38 PM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? Amici. Are any of the western FOT going to Buttonwillow? I'm still totally ambivalent but find myself polishing the car. Give me some incentive to head for the only track I hate...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Fri Sep 7 15:15:34 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 21:15:34 GMT Subject: [Fot] Motor Oil Message-ID: <20070907.171534.17863.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com> Not sure if there is a consensus. I have been using Joe Gibbs oil, which is made for flat tappet engines. Joe(B) -- Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/6/2007 7:30:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: FoT, After all the discussions about motor oil, what is the current general consensus on the usable brands? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 I like them... ;-0 Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Be your own boss today! Go to Technical School. Click here. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijngzT1tY9UULC042Y76sQN5nhW Ocep3fd5sWfbnJfgQXpv99/ From vintage.racer at comcast.net Fri Sep 7 21:56:39 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 20:56:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo Message-ID: <000801c7f1cc$4289fbb0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: I need some advice on the probable solution to a brake servo problem that just popped up. This is for a stock 1969 TR-6. Symptons: 1. When pressing the brake pedal, I hear a soft "whooshing" sound which occurs whenever I pump the pedal. 2. The brake pedal requires more pressure. 3. The engine speed drops rapidly as long as there is pressure on the brake pedal. All this leads me to believe there is a leak in the brake servo unit. Looking in the service manual reveals that only a filter at the brake pedal end of the servo can be replaced. However, the Moss catalog shows the non-return valve and a seal & plate assembly are availalbe but no filter. The Victoria British catalog shows a repair kit but no description so not sure what is included. Any thoughts on which or both of these parts could fix the problem? If I remove the rubber hose from the brake servo unit (which leads to the intake manifold) and temporarily block it off, will that alleviate the problem? Thanks. Gary 62 TR-4 69 TR-6 From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sat Sep 8 00:48:52 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 02:48:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Motor Oil Message-ID: As advised earlier, the most useful information is at: www.lnengineering.com/oil.html However, FWIW, I am presently using Valvoline Synpower 20W/50, of API SL rating, (NOT the SM found on most auto-store shelves), plus the STP 4-cylinder oil supplement in the RED container, which contains lots of ZDDP. When I next change the oil, I will be changing to Amsoil Series 2000 Racing (20w50), and using a fully Synthetic Mobil 1 Oil Filter. Hope that helps Best Regards Lion ps. it was really great to see my fellow FoTers up at PIR last weekend, especially Charly, stoic in the face of adversity. L http://community.websho ts.com/user/vitesse1963 From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sat Sep 8 18:22:08 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 10:22:08 +1000 Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo In-Reply-To: <000801c7f1cc$4289fbb0$4acd0518@GHOffice> References: <000801c7f1cc$4289fbb0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: Gary, Sounds like the diaphragm is split inside the servo. Kind Regards Peter Vucinic TR-4 _____________________________________________ Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: Saturday, 8 September 2007 1:57 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo Hello: I need some advice on the probable solution to a brake servo problem that just popped up. This is for a stock 1969 TR-6. Symptons: 1. When pressing the brake pedal, I hear a soft "whooshing" sound which occurs whenever I pump the pedal. 2. The brake pedal requires more pressure. 3. The engine speed drops rapidly as long as there is pressure on the brake pedal. All this leads me to believe there is a leak in the brake servo unit. Looking in the service manual reveals that only a filter at the brake pedal end of the servo can be replaced. However, the Moss catalog shows the non-return valve and a seal & plate assembly are availalbe but no filter. The Victoria British catalog shows a repair kit but no description so not sure what is included. Any thoughts on which or both of these parts could fix the problem? If I remove the rubber hose from the brake servo unit (which leads to the intake manifold) and temporarily block it off, will that alleviate the problem? Thanks. Gary 62 TR-4 69 TR-6 pvucinic at netspace.net.au Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vintage.racer at comcast.net Sun Sep 9 10:29:28 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 09:29:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo Message-ID: <000a01c7f2fe$98068e90$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: Thanks to all who replyed with solutions to my brake servo problem. I've temporarily blocked the vacuum hose and will look for a replacement servo. Gary From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sun Sep 9 17:35:07 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 16:35:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau Message-ID: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Here's a link to a file I just posted to my site with a slideshow of a Mysterious Tonneau Cover. It's mysterious because I don't know what car it's for. http://www.guppypuppy.com/Mysterytonneau.html I suspect it's for a TR4 but there's no way to be sure without an actual TR4 to try it on. Can any of you guys identify it? Oh yeah, if anyone wants it, I'll sell it to a fellow F.O.T. for el-cheapo. It's in perfect condition but has been in a box for many years. (at least 10) It says "AERO" on the zipper. ~Steve From BillB at bnj.com Sun Sep 9 17:50:54 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 16:50:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. Stupid beyond belief--he whacked me in the back left corner trying to re-pass me in an turn nine, and then tried to blame the wreck on me. I wound up pivoting on his bumper, being shoved sideways down the track with a big ass 57' Corvette rubbing my elbow and finally got shoved against the tire wall, which bent the suspension mounts on the right front corner. He could of killed me, he did indeed wreck the heck out of Peyote, and didn't have the integrity to even say "sorry your car got wrecked" or "glad you didn't get hurt". Weasel. I've been on the guilty side of an incident like this once, and though it was a lot less clearcut than this one (I hit a guy in the middle of his car when I couldn't brake in time as he cut across a chicane),I stepped up and apologized. Even paid for the guy's damage though I think it's wrong to do that--we all assume the risk of damage or injury when we choose to race. I'll fix my own car. The stewards didn't "decide" on their action, which I take to mean they wanted everyone cleared out before they decide to do nothing. They were already making noises about "mitigating aspects" when I talked to them, despite clear evidence like a big punt mark in the back of my car, a video from Karon's Devin, and lots of people that saw the incident. I know the corner worker on the scene must have been looking the wrong way--he asked me what happened. If I did such a bonehead thing I'd expect to get suspended, but the guy has run with SVRA for years and I'm just a guy from Oregon that they may never see again. They're the ones that will have to race with the weenie, I certainly wouldn't set a wheel on a track with him again. Anyway, the racing part of the tour is over. I'm making my way back across the country to lick my wounds in Portland. we'll do a little sightseeing on the way back and stop in Geneseo to pick up my motor from Uncle Jack. I will, of course, fix Peyote. From rocky at spitfire4.com Sun Sep 9 18:30:13 2007 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 19:30:13 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <003501c7f341$c21ca730$6401a8c0@S1099895562> That's two tonneaus. The silver one is for a RHD car, the black one is for a LHD car. It looks generic enough you could probably make it fit most cars that don't have headrests on the seats. Hope it's not a Robbins product. Those things are junk. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:35 PM Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau > Here's a link to a file I just posted to my site with a slideshow of a > Mysterious Tonneau Cover. > It's mysterious because I don't know what car it's for. > > http://www.guppypuppy.com/Mysterytonneau.html > > I suspect it's for a TR4 but there's no way to be sure without an actual > TR4 > to try it on. > > Can any of you guys identify it? > > Oh yeah, if anyone wants it, I'll sell it to a fellow F.O.T. for > el-cheapo. > It's in perfect condition but has been in a box for many years. (at least > 10) > It says "AERO" on the zipper. > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rocky at spitfire4.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sun Sep 9 19:34:33 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 18:34:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <001101c7f34a$bdc2faf0$0501000a@Chowdown> SOLD ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 4:35 PM Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau > Here's a link to a file I just posted to my site with a slideshow of a > Mysterious Tonneau Cover. > It's mysterious because I don't know what car it's for. > > http://www.guppypuppy.com/Mysterytonneau.html > > I suspect it's for a TR4 but there's no way to be sure without an actual > TR4 > to try it on. > > Can any of you guys identify it? > > Oh yeah, if anyone wants it, I'll sell it to a fellow F.O.T. for > el-cheapo. > It's in perfect condition but has been in a box for many years. (at least > 10) > It says "AERO" on the zipper. > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Sun Sep 9 20:11:25 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 22:11:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bill Sorry to hear your racing trek is over, and glad you were not hurt. You looked so vulnerable in Peyote when I saw you at Mosport...pretty close to an open wheel racer. Good luck on the rebuild and don't swipe too many road signs (spare parts??) as you make you way back to Portland. Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: September 9, 2007 7:51 PM To: Steve Belfer; Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sun Sep 9 21:48:08 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 23:48:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] brake servos Message-ID: ISTR that about the only person who rebuilds vacuum brake servos in the UK, is Peter Norton of Norton Classic Servos? I don't have his contact details handy, but he should be easy enough to find. He rebuilds both Lockeed and Girling Units and also sends out kits to those who wish to do it themselves. Nice fellow Best Regards Lion http://community.websho ts.com/user/vitesse1963 From mark at bradakis.com Sun Sep 9 22:07:28 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 22:07:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over In-Reply-To: References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <46E4C300.3060500@bradakis.com> Drat. If by some chance your return home involves cruising along I-80 through Utah, stop by and I'll buy you a cold one. mjb. From CoffeyJack at bfusa.com Mon Sep 10 07:03:10 2007 From: CoffeyJack at bfusa.com (Coffey, Jack) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:03:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo In-Reply-To: <000a01c7f2fe$98068e90$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: <5C33EB5352EE814AB72F655EA92399A20EF7FAF7@exc2-na-chq.bfusa.com> My servo had same symptoms.... I had it rebuilt by POWER BRAKE 503-238-8882 4533 S.E.DIVISION ST. PORTLAND OR. 97206 Only cost about $100 bucks and they did a great job Jack - TR250 coffeyjack at bfusa.com -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 11:29 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo Hello: Thanks to all who replyed with solutions to my brake servo problem. I've temporarily blocked the vacuum hose and will look for a replacement servo. Gary coffeyjack at bfusa.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 08:53:14 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:53:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over In-Reply-To: References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0709100753q23461481mdfed04bc4aa0eaeb@mail.gmail.com> Sorry Bill --would say that is racing, but not that kind of hit. Thought this was vintage?? SOVREN would not be so kind. You show your "gentlemanness" by not naming the perpetrator. On 9/9/07, Bill Babcock wrote: > > I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. Stupid beyond > belief--he whacked me in the back left corner trying to re-pass me in an > turn > nine, and then tried to blame the wreck on me. I wound up pivoting on his > bumper, being shoved sideways down the track with a big ass 57' Corvette > rubbing my elbow and finally got shoved against the tire wall, which bent > the > suspension mounts on the right front corner. He could of killed me, he did > indeed wreck the heck out of Peyote, and didn't have the integrity to even > say > "sorry your car got wrecked" or "glad you didn't get hurt". > > Weasel. > > I've been on the guilty side of an incident like this once, and though it > was > a lot less clearcut than this one (I hit a guy in the middle of his car > when I > couldn't brake in time as he cut across a chicane),I stepped up and > apologized. Even paid for the guy's damage though I think it's wrong to do > that--we all assume the risk of damage or injury when we choose to race. > I'll > fix my own car. > > The stewards didn't "decide" on their action, which I take to mean they > wanted > everyone cleared out before they decide to do nothing. They were already > making noises about "mitigating aspects" when I talked to them, despite > clear > evidence like a big punt mark in the back of my car, a video from Karon's > Devin, and lots of people that saw the incident. I know the corner worker > on > the scene must have been looking the wrong way--he asked me what happened. > > If I did such a bonehead thing I'd expect to get suspended, but the guy > has > run with SVRA for years and I'm just a guy from Oregon that they may never > see > again. They're the ones that will have to race with the weenie, I > certainly > wouldn't set a wheel on a track with him again. > > Anyway, the racing part of the tour is over. I'm making my way back across > the > country to lick my wounds in Portland. we'll do a little sightseeing on > the > way back and stop in Geneseo to pick up my motor from Uncle Jack. > > I will, of course, fix Peyote. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From tarch at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 10 10:42:56 2007 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:42:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20070910154331.443B318763D@autox.team.net> Bill, What a bummer! But it's not only the hardware that is at risk in events like this. In 26 years of vintage racing I have only made contact with another car once, and that was at the last race at Road Atlanta. After 4 laps of dicing in the Enduro, I tried to squeeze in on the inside of an MGB at turn One. My tires let go a little bit and I slid up against the right side of who was to become my newest best race-track friend, Lee Walker. The bump was my error in judgment and was clearly 100% my fault. I spun out but and got back on the track. Lee wobbled a mite but just kept on trucking. We both finished but after the race, when I went to his pit to apologize, Lee acknowledged that he knew what I was up to, lost me in his mirrors, and therefore he felt some responsibility. To assuage his (unwarranted) guilt (perhaps) he invited me to have a picnic lunch with his extended family from Mississippi. Lemonade, potato salad and all that stuff. He then invited me to go to church with them the next morning. It turns out that he is a writer and illustrator for children's text books. That he races an MGB notwithstanding, Lee is an intellectual and artistic guy. But more than that he is one of those few men whose high personal qualities are right there on the surface. I scratched that surface; I know. Bill, You may have scratched the surface of a different sort of character. But whatever might ooze out of that scratch washes right off if you catch it quickly enough. And it's also a shame about that trick little car of yours. I'll bet it comes back better than ever, too. Richard -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+tarch=bellsouth.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+tarch=bellsouth.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:51 PM To: Steve Belfer; Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. Stupid beyond belief--he whacked me in the back left corner trying to re-pass me in an turn nine, and then tried to blame the wreck on me. I wound up pivoting on his bumper, being shoved sideways down the track with a big ass 57' Corvette rubbing my elbow and finally got shoved against the tire wall, which bent the suspension mounts on the right front corner. He could of killed me, he did indeed wreck the heck out of Peyote, and didn't have the integrity to even say "sorry your car got wrecked" or "glad you didn't get hurt". Weasel. I've been on the guilty side of an incident like this once, and though it was a lot less clearcut than this one (I hit a guy in the middle of his car when I couldn't brake in time as he cut across a chicane),I stepped up and apologized. Even paid for the guy's damage though I think it's wrong to do that--we all assume the risk of damage or injury when we choose to race. I'll fix my own car. The stewards didn't "decide" on their action, which I take to mean they wanted everyone cleared out before they decide to do nothing. They were already making noises about "mitigating aspects" when I talked to them, despite clear evidence like a big punt mark in the back of my car, a video from Karon's Devin, and lots of people that saw the incident. I know the corner worker on the scene must have been looking the wrong way--he asked me what happened. If I did such a bonehead thing I'd expect to get suspended, but the guy has run with SVRA for years and I'm just a guy from Oregon that they may never see again. They're the ones that will have to race with the weenie, I certainly wouldn't set a wheel on a track with him again. Anyway, the racing part of the tour is over. I'm making my way back across the country to lick my wounds in Portland. we'll do a little sightseeing on the way back and stop in Geneseo to pick up my motor from Uncle Jack. I will, of course, fix Peyote. tarch at bellsouth.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 09:56:29 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:56:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> <001101c7f34a$bdc2faf0$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <000b01c7f3c3$26f23bd0$0501000a@Chowdown> When I imported the picture, somehow the image got flipped upside-down. It's Left-Hand-Drive. Early TR4. Thanks guys and, Bill DeWar, I hope you enjoy it. ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Steve Belfer" ; "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau > SOLD > > > > ~Steve > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Belfer" > To: "Friends of Triumph" > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 4:35 PM > Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau > > >> Here's a link to a file I just posted to my site with a slideshow of a >> Mysterious Tonneau Cover. >> It's mysterious because I don't know what car it's for. >> >> http://www.guppypuppy.com/Mysterytonneau.html >> >> I suspect it's for a TR4 but there's no way to be sure without an actual >> TR4 >> to try it on. >> >> Can any of you guys identify it? >> >> Oh yeah, if anyone wants it, I'll sell it to a fellow F.O.T. for >> el-cheapo. >> It's in perfect condition but has been in a box for many years. (at least >> 10) >> It says "AERO" on the zipper. >> >> ~Steve >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> colordog.1 at earthlink.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Sep 10 10:03:43 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Khartu Lives! Message-ID: Hi, Khartu-V2 made it's debut (finally!) on 9-SEP at a Jaguars of New England "slalom"... it did pretty good too! The weather started off "iffy" with heavy showers, but the showers dipersed and the "track" started drying and the times started dropping. I wound up getting FTD, although about .5 of a second off my normal times on the Jag "standard" national course. At any rate, it was good to get back in the saddle of "my old friend" again. Now all I have to to do is fugoure out why the motor is smoking out the tailpipe - a leakdown test is in order. I hope all the NET folks had fun eating lobstah "down east" on SAT. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 10:20:31 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:20:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <002501c7f3c6$82a8e750$0501000a@Chowdown> All Alluminum Tour is OverYour safety is the real important thing here and I'm glad you're okay. If it happened to me, I don't know how I would react. It sounds like the car is fixable, thank goodness. The thing is, it's pretty dangerous to have vehicles of such different sizes racing together. One slip-up and it's off into the weeds, the big car wins. I'm still tentative in my dad's old restored TR3, I don't want to get too close to anybody for fear of making contact. That Vette was not nearly as agile as your sports-racer as you darted around him in the heat of battle. He probably made a mistake and didn't whack you intentionally. If he did, he's in the wrong sport. A handshake and apology would have been the sportsman like thing to do. Either the Vette-guy was waiting for you to come over to him, or was afraid to confront you, or both. ~S ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Steve Belfer ; Friends of Triumph Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 4:50 PM Subject: All Alluminum Tour is Over I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. Stupid beyond belief--he whacked me in the back left corner trying to re-pass me in an turn nine, and then tried to blame the wreck on me. I wound up pivoting on his bumper, being shoved sideways down the track with a big ass 57' Corvette rubbing my elbow and finally got shoved against the tire wall, which bent the suspension mounts on the right front corner. He could of killed me, he did indeed wreck the heck out of Peyote, and didn't have the integrity to even say "sorry your car got wrecked" or "glad you didn't get hurt". Weasel. I've been on the guilty side of an incident like this once, and though it was a lot less clearcut than this one (I hit a guy in the middle of his car when I couldn't brake in time as he cut across a chicane),I stepped up and apologized. Even paid for the guy's damage though I think it's wrong to do that--we all assume the risk of damage or injury when we choose to race. I'll fix my own car. The stewards didn't "decide" on their action, which I take to mean they wanted everyone cleared out before they decide to do nothing. They were already making noises about "mitigating aspects" when I talked to them, despite clear evidence like a big punt mark in the back of my car, a video from Karon's Devin, and lots of people that saw the incident. I know the corner worker on the scene must have been looking the wrong way--he asked me what happened. If I did such a bonehead thing I'd expect to get suspended, but the guy has run with SVRA for years and I'm just a guy from Oregon that they may never see again. They're the ones that will have to race with the weenie, I certainly wouldn't set a wheel on a track with him again. Anyway, the racing part of the tour is over. I'm making my way back across the country to lick my wounds in Portland. we'll do a little sightseeing on the way back and stop in Geneseo to pick up my motor from Uncle Jack. I will, of course, fix Peyote. From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 10:21:20 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:21:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Khartu Lives! References: Message-ID: <002d01c7f3c6$9faba950$0501000a@Chowdown> What's a Khartu? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Lang" To: ; <6pack at autox.team.net> Cc: Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:03 AM Subject: [Fot] Khartu Lives! > Hi, > > Khartu-V2 made it's debut (finally!) on 9-SEP at a Jaguars of New England > "slalom"... it did pretty good too! The weather started off "iffy" with > heavy showers, but the showers dipersed and the "track" started drying and > the times started dropping. I wound up getting FTD, although about .5 of a > second off my normal times on the Jag "standard" national course. > > At any rate, it was good to get back in the saddle of "my old friend" > again. Now all I have to to do is fugoure out why the motor is smoking out > the tailpipe - a leakdown test is in order. > > I hope all the NET folks had fun eating lobstah "down east" on SAT. > > regards, > rml > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent > Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | > Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From henry at henryfrye.com Mon Sep 10 21:02:17 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:02:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Race Report - 1 of 2 Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FAA6@server.Triumph.local> Mother Nature was not smiling on us this past weekend, the weather was hot and humid, then the rains came. We got dry track sessions on Thursday (2), Friday (1), and one Saturday morning. The qualifying race Saturday afternoon was run in the wet, as was the feature Sunday morning. Dick Stockton was running real strong, had a great time running in the top 5 all weekend, but is not a fan of running in the rain. In the qualifying race he was gridded way up front, but was not too keen on being part of the turn one shenanigans that were bound to ensue. He threw up his arm as the green flag dropped and fell in around 15th, and drove around the track for the entire race tucked in behind one of the slower 356's. As the time for the feature race came upon us, the weather looked dismal with track conditions even wetter than the qualifying race so Dick and his gang took the advantage of the lull in the raindrops to load up his car. Smart move. Randy Williams ran strong in his TR3 once he got that overdrive working right, and did double duty running his E-Type in Group 6 as well as his TR in Group 3. Randy was flirting with the top 10 in the speed chart all weekend, and in the feature pulled off a podium finish with a third overall. Outstanding drive, Randy. Steven Groh made the show, and did us and all the Spit pilots out there proud. His Weberized Spit is beautiful and fast, SVRA made it a Group 3 car. Steve showed off his rain driving skills as well, and drove to a 5th overall in the feature! Steve, that is motoring in a Spit, my friend. Kudos. Bill Babcock had Peyote was looking fantastic as usual, embarrassing many cars he had no business running in front of. Unfortunately, some Corvette driver put him out of business for the rest of the All Aluminum Tour, but Bill is fine and Peyote isn't bent up all that bad. As Bill said, it was time for a new body anyway. If he grabs a couple street signs from every state along his journey home, he will be all set! Unfortunately, Bill Dentinger in the Thunderbolt succumbed to clutch woes in the middle of the first session. But he was smiling every time I moseyed by, and I am pretty sure that was not just because he was glad to see me... Bud Babcock's beautiful TR3 ran well all weekend, and Bud was having a good time as well. Bob Wismer was running his S2000 this weekend, so needless to say he got in, drove, finished, and didn't worry about the car all weekend. continued on the next post... From henry at henryfrye.com Mon Sep 10 21:04:04 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:04:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen race report - 2 of 2 Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FAA7@server.Triumph.local> Continued from first post... I chose to sit on the sidelines for the qualifying race, and was surprised to see so many cars take the track. I guess I was a little gun-shy remembering the last time I ran in conditions like this. But by the time the feature race came around, I was more determined to go have some fun, and drove the TR4 to the grid. Since I didn't run the qualifying race I was not on the grid sheet. I was asked what my lap time was. I told him I ran a 28.3 but I didn't run the qualifying race. He looks at his sheet and says I should be gridded 6th. I told him his sheet had the wet times from the qualifying race. I ask to see the sheet and tell where I should go. They still grid me higher than I deserve, and Randy and all the rest of the guys up there start giving me the business about how much beer I promised the guy. I don't think any of them bought my excuse that with the wet track they didn't want faster cars starting at the back. So we took the track and it was really slick, I let a by few of the guys I had no business being in front of. By the end of the race we almost had a dry line most of the way around the track. I had a great race with John Targett in his RHD red MGB hardtop. We traded positions a couple times, had some fun with an insanely fast Turner, and when the checker dropped I was in front of both John and the Turner, so life is good. I ended up with a 9th overall and second in class. I am pretty sure Group 3 had the only 'almost' decent track conditions all Sunday, as the next group left the grid the unrelenting rain came back, and it never really gave up. Friday afternoon the race cars go downtown to show off the cars and do a couple parade laps around the original race circuit. Bob Williams and his crew did the best job I ever participated in getting us downtown and parked with no overheating woes, and off and around the original street course with minimal fuss and jockeying. Helen told me before the event she had done the circuit enough times, and it was time to offer my passenger seat to someone else. As I sat having dinner Thursday night with my Western PA Triumph club friends, I brought up the subject. Bruce Stutzman immediately said I needed to offer the seat to Diane, Bill Babcock's wife. Seems that even with all of Bill's fantastic negotiating skills, he was unable to persuade SVRA that having her sit on the fuel cell in Peyote's passenger compartment was a good idea. So Diane and I blasted around the course waiving at all the fans. Speaking of the fans, I have never seen so many folks both downtown and along the road course. Watkins Glen was packed! Another fun weekend at Watkins Glen. Thanks to Jack W and the rest of the SVRA gang. BTW, the results are already up on mylaps.com From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Sep 11 00:00:12 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:00:12 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Just poking some fun! Message-ID: <571208BC-1672-4F31-9CF9-6023013B4E88@earthlink.net> Worked the late shift on my new Formula Vee tonight. Then the 45 mile drive from shop to home. Passed some old brit car broken down on the shoulder. Took a hundred yards to process that - A. It's a Triumph B. I've got tools C. I've got a shop full of parts less than 10 miles away D. I can probably help. As I'm backing-up the shoulder, I'm thinking A. Ignition problem? B. Charging problem? C. Wheel bearing? D. Wait a minute, I think I know this car! Sure enough, up walks our own Henry Morrison. As a relative newcomer to New Mexico [11yrs] and FoT [3mos.], I never knew that 10pm on a monday night is the proper time to test a TR3 sending unit. I could swear Henry was stealing one of my old hitch-hiking lines with "but it showed 1/4 tank!", but realized that he was serious... he believed 40+ year old Lucas. Now we both know - Yes, 10pm on a monday night IS the time to test such things. But NO, a 40+ year old gas gauge is not to be trusted. Hope you understand Henry, that I'm laughing with you and not at you, because we've all been there. Just glad I could help. On the other hand, maybe that's what one gets for driving a TR to a Healey club meeting. Greg From dos_gusanos at msn.com Tue Sep 11 08:08:22 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 08:08:22 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Just poking some fun! In-Reply-To: <571208BC-1672-4F31-9CF9-6023013B4E88@earthlink.net> References: <571208BC-1672-4F31-9CF9-6023013B4E88@earthlink.net> Message-ID: I'd only been in the drink about three minutes when Greg must have spotted my FOT sticker on the windshield and quickly whisked me away to the nearest petrol dump where I was able to add another red can to my collection. I'm sure Greg saved me from being de-nuded of my MG GOF driving cap and other priceless motoring accessories. Thanks again for the rescue......................Cheers Henry > To: fot at autox.team.net> From: lunkercars at earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:00:12 -0600> Subject: [Fot] Just poking some fun!> > Worked the late shift on my new Formula Vee tonight. Then the 45 mile > drive from shop to home. Passed some old brit car broken down on the > shoulder. Took a hundred yards to process that - A. It's a Triumph > B. I've got tools C. I've got a shop full of parts less than 10 > miles away D. I can probably help. As I'm backing-up the shoulder, > I'm thinking A. Ignition problem? B. Charging problem? C. Wheel > bearing? D. Wait a minute, I think I know this car! Sure enough, up > walks our own Henry Morrison. As a relative newcomer to New Mexico > [11yrs] and FoT [3mos.], I never knew that 10pm on a monday night is > the proper time to test a TR3 sending unit. I could swear Henry was > stealing one of my old hitch-hiking lines with "but it showed 1/4 > tank!", but realized that he was serious... he believed 40+ year old > Lucas. Now we both know - Yes, 10pm on a monday night IS the time to > test such things. But NO, a 40+ year old gas gauge is not to be trusted.> Hope you understand Henry, that I'm laughing with you and not at you, > because we've all been there. Just glad I could help. On the other > hand, maybe that's what one gets for driving a TR to a Healey club > meeting.> Greg > _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From sgroh1 at comcast.net Tue Sep 11 10:39:51 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (sgroh1 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:39:51 +0000 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over Message-ID: <091120071639.23422.46E6C4D70008537400005B7E2200748184CE08019D099C@comcast.net> I had the great pleasure to paddock next to Bill this last weekend with my Spit and all I can say is that if the offensive 'Vette driver had even 1/10th the amount of class Bill has, he'd have been over to Bill's paddock immediately with an apology. Bill is a true sportsman and gentleman, and it is a credit to our sport to have him in the field. I took home a ton of positive track experience from this weekend, but frankly I learned the most from Bill's attitude, humor and willingness to help anyone at any moment . Had it not been for Bill, I would have not turned a single lap all weekend. First he re-threaded a replacement oil fitting on an aeroquip line for me allowing me to make the field at all. Then he cheerfully proceeded to answer every one of my anxious questions over the 4 day event on tire temps, tire pressures, head gasket leaks and camber settings, lent me his tire temp guage, and, if that wasn't enough, he and his engineer Dave happily reinstalled the 20' awning on my brand new trailer that the wind ripped off while we at the Glen re-enactment (another event I would have missed, by the way, had it not been for Bill.) And if if that wasn't enough, he invites my girlfriend and I over for for a great chicken barbeque dinner Friday night! Thanks Bill, you are truly the class of the field whether on track or off. I'b be honored to paddock next to you anytime. The 'Vette driver could certainly learn a ton from you. Steve Groh SVRA 393 '63 Spitfire -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Bill Babcock" > I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. Stupid beyond > belief--he whacked me in the back left corner trying to re-pass me in an turn > nine, and then tried to blame the wreck on me. I wound up pivoting on his > bumper, being shoved sideways down the track with a big ass 57' Corvette > rubbing my elbow and finally got shoved against the tire wall, which bent the > suspension mounts on the right front corner. He could of killed me, he did > indeed wreck the heck out of Peyote, and didn't have the integrity to even say > "sorry your car got wrecked" or "glad you didn't get hurt". > > Weasel. > > I've been on the guilty side of an incident like this once, and though it was > a lot less clearcut than this one (I hit a guy in the middle of his car when I > couldn't brake in time as he cut across a chicane),I stepped up and > apologized. Even paid for the guy's damage though I think it's wrong to do > that--we all assume the risk of damage or injury when we choose to race. I'll > fix my own car. > > The stewards didn't "decide" on their action, which I take to mean they wanted > everyone cleared out before they decide to do nothing. They were already > making noises about "mitigating aspects" when I talked to them, despite clear > evidence like a big punt mark in the back of my car, a video from Karon's > Devin, and lots of people that saw the incident. I know the corner worker on > the scene must have been looking the wrong way--he asked me what happened. > > If I did such a bonehead thing I'd expect to get suspended, but the guy has > run with SVRA for years and I'm just a guy from Oregon that they may never see > again. They're the ones that will have to race with the weenie, I certainly > wouldn't set a wheel on a track with him again. > > Anyway, the racing part of the tour is over. I'm making my way back across the > country to lick my wounds in Portland. we'll do a little sightseeing on the > way back and stop in Geneseo to pick up my motor from Uncle Jack. > > I will, of course, fix Peyote. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chasgee at aol.com Tue Sep 11 10:41:42 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:41:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just poking some fun! In-Reply-To: References: <571208BC-1672-4F31-9CF9-6023013B4E88@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8C9C2A9C4452104-1C0-293B@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> de-nuded.....what a great word. -----Original Message----- From: dos_gusanos at msn.com To: ""Greg Lunker Hilyer ; Sent: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 7:08 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Just poking some fun! I'd only been in the drink about three minutes when Greg must have spotted my FOT sticker on the windshield and quickly whisked me away to the nearest petrol dump where I was able to add another red can to my collection. I'm sure Greg saved me from being de-nuded of my MG GOF driving cap and other priceless motoring accessories. Thanks again for the rescue......................Cheers Henry > To: fot at autox.team.net> From: lunkercars at earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:00:12 -0600> Subject: [Fot] Just poking some fun!> > Worked the late shift on my new Formula Vee tonight. Then the 45 mile > drive from shop to home. Passed some old brit car broken down on the > shoulder. Took a hundred yards to process that - A. It's a Triumph > B. I've got tools C. I've got a shop full of parts less than 10 > miles away D. I can probably help. As I'm backing-up the shoulder, > I'm thinking A. Ignition problem? B. Charging problem? C. Wheel > bearing? D. Wait a minute, I think I know this car! Sure enough, up > walks our own Henry Morrison. As a relative newcomer to New Mexico > [11yrs] and FoT [3mos.], I never knew that 10pm on a monday night is > the proper time to test a TR3 sending unit. I could swear Henry was > stealing one of my old hitch-hiking lines with "but it showed 1/4 > tank!", but realized that he was serious... he believed 40+ year old > Lucas. Now we both know - Yes, 10pm on a monday night IS the time to > test such things. But NO, a 40+ year old gas gauge is not to be trusted.> Hope you understand Henry, that I'm laughing with you and not at you, > because we've all been there. Just glad I could help. On the other > hand, maybe that's what one gets for driving a TR to a Healey club > meeting.> Greg > _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From Labs0808 at aol.com Tue Sep 11 12:56:41 2007 From: Labs0808 at aol.com (Labs0808 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:56:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over Message-ID: Before we start to build a bronze shrine to Bill let us not forget that he is a aggressive driver who I believe made a clean but not completely thought out partial pass. I did have a birds eye view as I was gaining on the duo in the heat of battle. They way I saw it was that Move to the outside was risky at best especially against a driver that he spent little race time with, and often has had a known behavior or aggressive (sometimes wild driving manners) it was only qualifying session not a race, and as far as I can remember nobody is getting paid to stand on the podium. If we forget why we are there in the spirit of enjoying are friends are cars some good fun then we all lose, this last weekend in front of me I viewed the spin of a Lister as I dodged it on the grass as it slide down the track right at me, and the crash of two cars both situations I was close enough to have viewed and filmed. I told the boys that both were at fault in the crash but mostly the Corvette in my opinion was driving over his head in a car that not under control. I also heard later that the corner workers back that side of it up. Bill: Carl was looking for you at the dinner Saturday night to tell you his conclusions I enjoyed having the chance to visit and race with my step brother (peyote ) and meet you, best of luck putting the car back together again LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING IT OUT THERE AGAIN DOUG KARON ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Tue Sep 11 13:46:34 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:46:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Lime Rock and Watkins Glen photos In-Reply-To: <091120071639.23422.46E6C4D70008537400005B7E2200748184CE08019D099C@comcast.net> References: <091120071639.23422.46E6C4D70008537400005B7E2200748184CE08019D099C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <004701c7f4ac$773bd2b0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> I have posted a ton of photos of the Lime Rock and Watkins Glen events the last 2 weekends. Not many of Triumphs, but there are some lurking. Henry Frye makes a guest appearance... I was crewing for #928 MG-TD. We bailed out Sunday when the fog invaded even the near-empty garage! Great to see Ted Schumacher again, as always! I even caught him downtown with my camera! http://picasaweb.google.com/Milo066 Enjoy... Clark From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 11 13:55:31 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:55:31 EDT Subject: [Fot] Fwd: All Alluminum Tour is Over Message-ID: ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com Return-path: From: BillDentin at aol.com Full-name: BillDentin Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:54:13 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over To: Labs0808 at aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10721 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain In a message dated 09/11/2007 1:57:12 PM Central Daylight Time, Labs0808 at aol.com writes: > Before we start to build a bronze shrine to Bill let us not forget that he > > is a aggressive driver who I believe made a clean but not completely > thought > out partial pass. I did have a birds eye view as I was gaining on the duo > in > the heat of battle. > They way I saw it was that Move to the outside was risky at best > especially against a driver that he spent little race time with, and often > has had a > Doug... I suppose had you said, "GOLD or SILVER" I'd have found your opening line more palatable, but I'd actually support a BRONZE shrine for Babcock. I've raced with him twice this year at ROAD AMERICA, and also at BRAINERD, GRATTAN and WATKINS GLEN. I have no argument with your choice of the word 'aggressive' when describing his driving style, but without adding the words 'very capable' your sentence can be misleading to others. Bill Babcock is a very capable, and yes aggressive driver, or he would not end up in the front of the pack, chasing and holding off far more hairy chested machinery. I didn't have your front row seat behind the incident, so I should have no opinion as to what happened in the incident, nor where fault lies. The Thunder Bolt had a frozen clutch, so I watched that Qualifying Race (my Race Group) with Henry Frye at the fence between ONE and TWO. Clearly there was a gaggle of cars up front (including Babcock) who were going at it tooth and nail. Race Group FOUR was very impressive, and full of aggressive driving. But when I read Bill's text on the incident, he seemed far more concerned about the other driver's post race attitude and lack of remorse for his part in the incident. Each driver has responsibility for a safe pass, but the majority of that responsibility lies with the overtaking driver. In this case that's the Corvette, and the way I understand it, the Corvette hit the Peyote. If that's so, he ought to come back to the paddock willing to accept his portion of the guilt. Bronze Shrine! Are you aware of the Granite Shrine I built at ROAD AMERICA for my racing partner, Bob Wismer? It's the real deal. It weighs over 4,000 pounds. Of course, he never hit anybody and is not particularly aggressive. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From sgroh1 at comcast.net Tue Sep 11 16:15:59 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (Steven Groh) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:15:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over References: Message-ID: <002c01c7f4c1$59d930e0$6401a8c0@steven2sbouwlk> Doug, If you are responding to my earlier post by your use of the term "bronze shrine:" The construction of the shrine has absolutely nothing to do with your opinion that Bill is an aggressive driver. I happen value his character, which was demonstrated off-track all weekend. As far as your bird's eye view, if Peyote was hit in the extreme rear quarter panel, wouldn't you assume that Peyote had the corner? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over > Before we start to build a bronze shrine to Bill let us not forget that > he > is a aggressive driver who I believe made a clean but not completely > thought > out partial pass. I did have a birds eye view as I was gaining on the duo > in > the heat of battle. > They way I saw it was that Move to the outside was risky at best > especially against a driver that he spent little race time with, and > often has had a > known behavior or aggressive (sometimes wild driving manners) it was only > qualifying session not a race, and as far as I can remember nobody is > getting > paid to stand on the podium. > If we forget why we are there in the spirit of enjoying are friends are > cars some good fun then we all lose, this last weekend in front of me I > viewed > the spin of a Lister as I dodged it on the grass as it slide down the > track > right at me, and the crash of two cars both situations I was close enough > to > have viewed and filmed. > I told the boys that both were at fault in the crash but mostly the > Corvette in my opinion was driving over his head in a car that not under > control. I > also heard later that the corner workers back that side of it up. > Bill: Carl was looking for you at the dinner Saturday night to tell > you > his conclusions I enjoyed having the chance to visit and race with my > step > brother (peyote ) and meet you, best of luck putting the car back > together > again > LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING IT OUT THERE AGAIN > DOUG KARON > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Tue Sep 11 16:40:18 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:40:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? Message-ID: <20070911225332.KZHC9139.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> http://www.twitchguru.com/site/flash_videos/beer_cooling_comparison_international_edition.html I wonder if a car radiator would see a performance difference like that seen in the cooling capacity of beer and a computer CPU (at rest and under load). I would think that the you would certainly need to make sure to get the foam out of the beer or at least let it go flat before pouring into the radiator. Gunsness did not cool as well as Coors which in turn did not do as well as the German beer (some unpronounceable brand) they used but neither of them cooled as well as Molson. Interesting. Anyone going to try it in their car? HeHe... From tlizzard at msn.com Tue Sep 11 17:12:24 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 19:12:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? References: <20070911225332.KZHC9139.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: Well, alcohol was the "anti-freeze" of choice before glycol solutions came along. I fear beer would be a tad corrosive, owing to it's sugar content. I think beer is best left as a biological unit coolant. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: David W. Riddle To: wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com ; members at dctra.org ; fot at autox.team.net ; f500 at f500.org Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:40 PM Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? http://www.twitchguru.com/site/flash_videos/beer_cooling_comparison_interna tional_edition.html I wonder if a car radiator would see a performance difference like that seen in the cooling capacity of beer and a computer CPU (at rest and under load). I would think that the you would certainly need to make sure to get the foam out of the beer or at least let it go flat before pouring into the radiator. Gunsness did not cool as well as Coors which in turn did not do as well as the German beer (some unpronounceable brand) they used but neither of them cooled as well as Molson. Interesting. Anyone going to try it in their car? HeHe... _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Emoticon3.gif] From norlinengineering at comcast.net Tue Sep 11 17:55:21 2007 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:55:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005c01c7f4cf$375b81e0$020ba8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP> However, beer does make a great fire extinguisher. Used to carry a six pack in the old van just in case of emergencies. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Terry Stetler Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 4:12 PM To: wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com; members at dctra.org; fot at autox.team.net; f500 at f500.org; David W. Riddle Subject: Re: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? Well, alcohol was the "anti-freeze" of choice before glycol solutions came along. I fear beer would be a tad corrosive, owing to it's sugar content. I think beer is best left as a biological unit coolant. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: David W. Riddle To: wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com ; members at dctra.org ; fot at autox.team.net ; f500 at f500.org Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:40 PM Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? http://www.twitchguru.com/site/flash_videos/beer_cooling_comparison_interna tional_edition.html I wonder if a car radiator would see a performance difference like that seen in the cooling capacity of beer and a computer CPU (at rest and under load). I would think that the you would certainly need to make sure to get the foam out of the beer or at least let it go flat before pouring into the radiator. Gunsness did not cool as well as Coors which in turn did not do as well as the German beer (some unpronounceable brand) they used but neither of them cooled as well as Molson. Interesting. Anyone going to try it in their car? HeHe... _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Emoticon3.gif] _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html norlinengineering at comcast.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Tue Sep 11 20:40:10 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:40:10 -0600 Subject: [Fot] T shirts and coat of arms stickers Message-ID: <000001c7f4e6$3d429e60$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Does anyone know where I can get T shirts and coat of arms stickers. I think Ted is out of t shirts. Thanks Jim G From WEmery7451 at aol.com Tue Sep 11 20:40:43 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 22:40:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over Message-ID: In a message dated 9/9/07 4:54:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: <> Racing has certainly changed down through the decades. It use to be for the SPORT, and the overtaking car was responsible for safely passing the person being overtaken, even if he had to slow down. Now it appears that the faster cars have an open season to fly along as fast as they can under any condition, and when they hit someone, it is the other guy's fault -- the one who got hit. "He cut me off!" "He didn't give me racing room!" On and on. Sometimes, it appears that the safety stewards and race officials want to see more shrapnel fly to put on a better show for the audience. Someone gave me a tape of the E-Production race at the Runoffs last year. Before the end of the race, it appeared that about half of the cars were smashed up and off the track. In this area, the Sports Racer Ford drivers own the tracks, and anyone else out there with them are second class citizens. About 90% of all of the whining and bitching at any event seems to come from these SRF drivers. We just got back from spending a week in Portland. I had seen a show on the History Channel about Portland Underground, which was very interesting. The tour that we got on was somewhat disappointing. Most of the tunnels had been blocked off due to crooks using them to enter and rob buildings. This coming weekend, I will be driving from Pittsburgh to Williamsport, PA to help my boy with his TR-7. He will try to race it at Watkins Glen this weekend. I hope that he has better luck than he did the last time he was at Watkins Glen. He got knocked off of the track in his RX-7 Mazda, and went spinning down over the hill hitting a guard rail. His Mazda was trashed out of existence.


**************************************
See what's new at http://www.aol.com From fpspitfire at insightbb.com Tue Sep 11 20:57:40 2007 From: fpspitfire at insightbb.com (fpspitfire at insightbb.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:57:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] SCCA RunOffs Oct 7-14 Heartland Park Topeka, Message-ID: For those of you who are interested: The annual SCCA Run-Offs National Championship race is October 8th thru 14th at Heartland Park Topeka. The H-Production Race is Friday sometime (I can't remember exactly). http://www.scca.org for details. Since I have no crew, I have crew slots open if anyone in the area wants to come help out or just wants to come check out the action. Sponsorship is always welcome...the car is looking pretty clean with no decals on it. :) I plan on arriving the 7th and setting up camp for the week, but I plan on leaving friday after the race. I have the motor issues that popped up at Pocono fixed and the gearbox is sorted out. Plus Hoosier sent a pair of the new compound tires for me try courtesy of my win at St. Louis. Aaron Johnson #8 HP Spitfire 1500 Southern Illinois Region From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 11 21:20:12 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:20:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over References: Message-ID: Guilty as charged, sort of. The pass was complete, but it was pointless, there wasn't any way I could have held the position once we hit the chute coming out of the boot. But it wasn't really that aggressive a move, I had been following the guy for five laps, I got to watch in great detail how he went through the corners since I didn't have anything else to do. It was a pretty slow dance. It also wasn't really an outside pass--I got by him in the straight section before the turn in for the next corner when he went wide at the end of that carousel-like turn. The only reason it looked like an outside pass on the next corner is that he didn't let up when I started to turn in. I was already turning when he hit me, and he hit me on the rear corner. Not a nudge, like it would have been if I had cut him off, but a hard hit that smashed my subframe in. No way that could happen unless I was well in front of him. In other words, pass complete. I also had no idea the guy was a flake, except for the wild way he was cornering sometimes. A number of people came by afterwards and told me he has a rep for wild driving. One of the risks of doing this trip is that I DON'T know the people I'm driving with. I have to trust that they'll be rational. If I'd known he was that wild, I might not have have passed him. Of course if the club thinks he's that wild he should probably have someone talking to him. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "I told the boys they both were at fault in the crash" Do you mean you told me? You didn't, in fact you said exactly the opposite and said you had it all on video. I do like the idea of a bronze monument though. Could it be close to Wismer's? It would be nice to have an alternate place to let Sam leave his little olfactory messages. Incidentally, I'd love a copy of the video. It would be fun to see it. Any idea what Carl decided to do? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Labs0808 at aol.com Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 11:56 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over Before we start to build a bronze shrine to Bill let us not forget that he is a aggressive driver who I believe made a clean but not completely thought out partial pass. I did have a birds eye view as I was gaining on the duo in the heat of battle. They way I saw it was that Move to the outside was risky at best especially against a driver that he spent little race time with, and often has had a known behavior or aggressive (sometimes wild driving manners) it was only qualifying session not a race, and as far as I can remember nobody is getting paid to stand on the podium. If we forget why we are there in the spirit of enjoying are friends are cars some good fun then we all lose, this last weekend in front of me I viewed the spin of a Lister as I dodged it on the grass as it slide down the track right at me, and the crash of two cars both situations I was close enough to have viewed and filmed. I told the boys that both were at fault in the crash but mostly the Corvette in my opinion was driving over his head in a car that not under control. I also heard later that the corner workers back that side of it up. Bill: Carl was looking for you at the dinner Saturday night to tell you his conclusions I enjoyed having the chance to visit and race with my step brother (peyote ) and meet you, best of luck putting the car back together again LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING IT OUT THERE AGAIN DOUG KARON ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From WEmery7451 at aol.com Wed Sep 12 11:29:42 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:29:42 EDT Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? Message-ID: In a message dated 9/11/07 4:55:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, norlinengineering at comcast.net writes: << I wonder if a car radiator would see a performance difference like that s een in the cooling capacity of beer and a computer CPU (at rest and under lo ad). >> The suger would probably plate inside all of the cooling passages, and cause overheating. It might be similar to antifreeze in the gastank, or an antifreeze leak into the engine. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Wed Sep 12 12:34:48 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:34:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hawk Blue pads for early Spitfire? Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715756@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> I'm looking for a set of Hawk Blue pads for my early Spitfire, but can't turn up an application number for them. Hawk's site and the distributor sites I've searched don't list Triumph applications or pads for Girling calipers. Must be time to switch to some fancy aftermarket calipers... Anybody have an idea of the Hawk Blue part number for the early Spit (Mk 2) caliper? Scott B. From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 12 13:05:06 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:05:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FT Nomination Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A8246FC@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> I would like to get Bobby Whitehead onto the FoT list. He took his drivers school this past weekend at a CVAR event here in Texas. Bobby has a beautiful Primrose yellow GT6 that came out of Florida and the car was extremely well prepared. When I took my drivers school in 1996 Bobby was there too, in a street TR6 (CVAR used to allow that). I hadn't seen him since so it is obvious that he has persevered and has finally come over to the racing Triumph side. Bobby would like to get in contact with the other GT6 characters out there for some transmission advice. CVAR didn't like the Toyota conversion. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 12 13:09:29 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:09:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] spitfire racer Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A824719@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> While I'm nominating folks I would also like to get Don Couch from my local Triumph club onto the FoT list. He has put together a very nice street/autocross Spitfire and has the bug. At our club meeting last night Don told me he has decided to step up from autocrossing into road racing and he has a 1979 Spitfire to convert into a racer. Our TX club stops at 1972 SCCA rules but I think that he can build it to the 1972 spec pretty easily. Don would love some help from the Spit contingent. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 From Fubog1 at aol.com Wed Sep 12 13:20:15 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:20:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] FT Nomination Message-ID: In a message dated 9/12/2007 3:05:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RKramer at rdoequipment.com writes: I would like to get Bobby Whitehead onto the FoT list. He took his drivers school this past weekend at a CVAR event here in Texas. Bobby has a beautiful Primrose yellow GT6 that came out of Florida and the car was extremely well prepared. Heck I'll second that! That car is the "reincarnation" of Mike Perrys old car from down here in south Fla. Bob Davis did a fantastic job on building the new car & I already heard through the "grapevine" that Bobby the new owner did a real fine job this past weekend. Safety FasTR Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 12 13:20:29 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:20:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Excessive oil temps Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A82474A@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> While I'm at it I might as well ask opinions from the list of my latest malady. This past weekend, when I wasn't spinning in my own oil (home made Accusump line shooting oil at the LF tire), I was suffering through a couple of problems that I think are related to oil cooling. I struggled with hot engine restarts all weekend and since it was 95 degrees with at least that much humidity, that meant every time after the first start-up in the morning. What happened first was the HS6 pistons and float jets were sticky. I replaced the jets with Grose jets and it got better but I noticed how hot the bowls were and that the pistons would bounce up and down and then stick down. During the Sunday mid day session I had to come off the track with excessive oil temps and a resulting drop in oil pressure. The water temp was 180 thanks to the aluminum radiator. I surmise that I failed to bleed out the air in the system on my fresh rebuild and the water wasn't circulating properly around the block. Does this sound reasonable? With the weather we were having and a late schedule I packed in in early and I haven't done work on it yet. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 From klynch_6 at msn.com Wed Sep 12 14:03:34 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:03:34 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Hawk Blue pads for early Spitfire? References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715756@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: Scott, the GT6 uses the #HB169E . 560 I had to do a little modification. Hope that's a starting point for you. Not sure how big a diff is between the Spits & 6's. ? Kev Lynch ----- Original Message ----- From: Barr, Scott To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 12:34 PM Subject: [Fot] Hawk Blue pads for early Spitfire? I'm looking for a set of Hawk Blue pads for my early Spitfire, but can't turn up an application number for them. Hawk's site and the distributor sites I've searched don't list Triumph applications or pads for Girling calipers. Must be time to switch to some fancy aftermarket calipers... Anybody have an idea of the Hawk Blue part number for the early Spit (Mk 2) caliper? Scott B. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From adcronin at ameritech.net Wed Sep 12 14:20:48 2007 From: adcronin at ameritech.net (A Daniel Cronin) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Brake Pads for Toyota 4-Pot Conversions Message-ID: <142215.31852.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Will be using the Toyota Calipers along with the TR6 front suspension components on my revamped TR2 and am wondering what brake pads those of you who have done this conversion would recommend (other than the stock Toyota pads for the 79 to 84 four wheel drive pickup) unless they are adequate. Car will not be a "race" car but will from time to time autocross and rally. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Dan Planning & Development Services A. Daniel Cronin 248 761-2673 From John.Reed at wilson.com Wed Sep 12 14:42:45 2007 From: John.Reed at wilson.com (John.Reed at wilson.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:42:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FT Nomination In-Reply-To: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A8246FC@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Message-ID: Great to have another GT6 racer. Second. Regards, John Reed Staff Photographer Wilson Sporting Goods Co. 8750 W Bryn Mawr Ave, Chicago, Illinois 60631, USA Tel. + 1.773.714.6895, fax +1.773.714.4585 John.Reed at wilson.com www.wilson.com www.amersports.com Please note that effective immediately, my e-mail , phone number and street address have changed. Please update your files accordingly. "Kramer, Robert" Sent by: fot-bounces+jreed=wilson.com at autox.team.net 09/12/07 12:05 PM To cc igofaster at charter.net Subject [Fot] FT Nomination I would like to get Bobby Whitehead onto the FoT list. He took his drivers school this past weekend at a CVAR event here in Texas. Bobby has a beautiful Primrose yellow GT6 that came out of Florida and the car was extremely well prepared. When I took my drivers school in 1996 Bobby was there too, in a street TR6 (CVAR used to allow that). I hadn't seen him since so it is obvious that he has persevered and has finally come over to the racing Triumph side. Bobby would like to get in contact with the other GT6 characters out there for some transmission advice. CVAR didn't like the Toyota conversion. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 jreed at wilson.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. From norlinengineering at comcast.net Wed Sep 12 14:52:40 2007 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:52:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hawk Blue pads for early Spitfire? In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715756@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <001801c7f57e$dc9dec10$020ba8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP> In looking through the Porterfield catalog, http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/ they list the Hawk Blue pad for the late Spitfire as an HB 118. This is for the 14 LF caliper. They do not list a Hawk pad for the earlier 12 SP caliper. They do however list their own pads for the early Spit caliper in their R-4 full race compound as a part no. GD 528. They also show rear shoes in this same compound. Anyone have experience with the Porterfield R-4 pads and shoes on a Spitfire? Jim Norlin -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Barr, Scott Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:35 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Hawk Blue pads for early Spitfire? I'm looking for a set of Hawk Blue pads for my early Spitfire, but can't turn up an application number for them. Hawk's site and the distributor sites I've searched don't list Triumph applications or pads for Girling calipers. Must be time to switch to some fancy aftermarket calipers... Anybody have an idea of the Hawk Blue part number for the early Spit (Mk 2) caliper? Scott B. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jhassall at blacksburg.net Wed Sep 12 17:02:11 2007 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:02:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Looking for used SU needles Message-ID: <46E86FF3.6040707@blacksburg.net> Amci, A friend of mine is trying to fine-tune a set of HS6 SUs he has adapted to his hot TR6. He's looking for a used set of SU needles (pls see his note below). Pls respond directly to osternd at copper.net, not me (let's eliminate (figuratively speaking) the middle man). Looking for SU Needles I'm trying to do an SU HS6 conversion on my '76 TR6 and am in need of some needles for modification. Wonder if anyone might have a set of used ones that they would like to part with. Surface condition is not too critical as they will be shaved down, but do need to be straight. They also need to be the spring loaded type, 0.100". I modified a set of BDB needles but went a tad too far and am running a bit richer than I would like. For some reason, it seems to be easier to go richer than leaner! The profile ended up being similar to a BCM needle, though richer. So, anything leaner than BCM or similar should work. -- J.C. Hassall Blacksburg VA 64 TR4 in autox preparation 95% finished, 90% to go From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 12 17:22:28 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:22:28 EDT Subject: [Fot] Looking for used SU needles Message-ID: The latest Kastner book shows how to make modifications to the needles and make them identical to each other. It is simple materials and comprehensive instructions. Use with Dremel. I recommend that he buy Kas' Book. Joe A From trbilbo at aol.com Wed Sep 12 19:38:46 2007 From: trbilbo at aol.com (trbilbo at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:38:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Looking for used SU needles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9C3BDF60BF509-750-BE84@mblk-r36.sysops.aol.com> I acquired a huge (hundred and hundreds) old stock of needles and will be unpacking them in the next couple of months. ANYone interested in numbers or ALL let me know as I will not be keeping this. Most are sorted. Some are not. Coming in a storage container but I did wrap carefully so fingers crossed. Let me know wants now and I will keep you on a list and repost when I uncover them shortly. Thanks all. Billy B. (Burroughs) #195 65 TR4A IRS ALSO... have a fellow with a 72 GT6 complete but disassembled in El Segundo (near LAX) Frame stripped painted as are most parts. Car is complete and titled but needs assembly Price is FREE. He doesn't want it to go to the crusher. Contact me here or cal me direct at 310-871-2491 my cell for his number -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: jhassall at blacksburg.net; fot at autox.team.net; osternd at copper.net Sent: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 4:22 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Looking for used SU needles The latest Kastner book shows how to make modifications to the needles and make them identical to each other. It is simple materials and comprehensive instructions. Use with Dremel. I recommend that he buy Kas' Book. Joe A trbilbo at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From jwags at dotnet.com Wed Sep 12 21:13:41 2007 From: jwags at dotnet.com (jwags at dotnet.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:13:41 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: [Fot] Single wire alternator Message-ID: <46E8AAE5.000001.05828@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> I don't often have things to say, but last night while getting the purple(74) TR3 ready for Road America I turned the kill switch off with the engine running and to my surprise Everything kept running,engine,fuel pump,fan, O my! Even the brake lights worked. With a little time on the web I fond that a single wire alternator needs to be hook to The battery side of the kill switch, and not the starter. A little longer and larger wire Did the trick. We had been running like that for years. Tech always checks the switch with the engine Off. So if any one in FOT land thinks they might be in the same boat starter up and Turn off the kill switch. Just the wrench John Wagner From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Thu Sep 13 06:58:18 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:58:18 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Well, maybe I'm getting just a little too itchy to get one of the Spitfires back on track before the snow flies, but here's the question. Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us some laps? #49Blue's all ready to go, except for the broken axle. #48White will require a lot more work after sitting for 14 years, but has some hell-for-stout looking rear axles under it. Scott B. From herald948 at aol.com Thu Sep 13 07:59:44 2007 From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:59:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <8C9C42578E164BC-4F0-B52@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us some laps? ==AM== I don't think you'd need to switch springs, but there are differences in radius rods and/or mounts to the body (not sure which) and in brake hydraulic hoses. Also, if the car with the shorter "donor" axles is old enough, it might have the smaller flanges to the differential? Otherwise, it's only a 2" total difference in track width. Maybe that's a lot, but possibly a bit of creativity with wheels and/or wheel spacers could compensate? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Thu Sep 13 08:01:29 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:01:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C744DE8A3@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Wow, I didn't know the track difference was 2 inches. That seems like a lot. Certainly a lot to make up with wheel spacers... ----- Original Message ----- From: herald948 at aol.com To: Barr, Scott; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thu Sep 13 08:59:44 2007 Subject: Re: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us some laps? ==AM== I don't think you'd need to switch springs, but there are differences in radius rods and/or mounts to the body (not sure which) and in brake hydraulic hoses. Also, if the car with the shorter "donor" axles is old enough, it might have the smaller flanges to the differential? Otherwise, it's only a 2" total difference in track width. Maybe that's a lot, but possibly a bit of creativity with wheels and/or wheel spacers could compensate? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 13 08:32:51 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:32:51 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <002701c7f612$f726ae20$2d02a8c0@Belkin> The spring really has nothing to do with the axle length. The springs are the same length through the entire series of Spits. The axle length only has to do with the amount of negative camber is created. You should replace the spring only if you want to do away with a lot of body roll (which is the effect created by the swing-spring rocker box). The early MkIV's had the swing spring and shorter axles and Apparently Triumph felt that was not doing what they intended when they introduced the swing-spring. Then they went to the longer axles. I have long suspected that if they had stayed with a fixed spring and just increased axle length, they would have fixed the wheel tuck problem by increasing spring rate. The exagerated negative camber goes a long way toward preventing the dreaded wheel tuck in a hard turn. You might find that the best performance will be from a fixed spring (with the necessary tuning of front and rear suspension) and the long axles. I have a camber compensator kit that I developed for fixed spring, long axle cars just in case it is needed. Joe C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barr, Scott" To: Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:58 AM Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? > Well, maybe I'm getting just a little too itchy to get one of the > Spitfires back on track before the snow flies, but here's the question. > > Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work > on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? > > The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us > some laps? > > #49Blue's all ready to go, except for the broken axle. #48White will > require a lot more work after sitting for 14 years, but has some > hell-for-stout looking rear axles under it. > > Scott B. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From twakeman at razzolink.com Thu Sep 13 08:35:48 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:35:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Message-ID: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> Earlier this year I gave up on my Lucas distributor and converted to a Mallory dual point system. I've been much happier with the distributor curve. However it goes through condensers like popcorn at the movies. Some go bad in as little as 1000 miles. This is the first time I ever had condensers go bad on me. I'm puzzled by the cause and any suggestions would be welcome. Vehicle Triumph TR3A. Coil Lucas Sport coil Newer battery with freshly cleaned terminals. Battery wiring stock. Electrical wiring stock except for alternator conversion and electric fan. I've never had a condenser go bad with a Lucas distributor in the same environment. Voltmeter shows no resistance ground between point ground plate and distributor body. Are Mallory condensers unusually fragile? Is there a common substitute I can use that is a bit more robust? Is there something I'm overlooking? Right now I'm afraid to go out to dinner or to the grocery store without a spare condenser and tools in the boot. TeriAnn From herald948 at aol.com Thu Sep 13 09:06:42 2007 From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:06:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C744DE8A3@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C744DE8A3@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <8C9C42ED42D7519-4F0-FCC@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott Wow, I didn't know the track difference was 2 inches. That seems like a lot. Certainly a lot to make up with wheel spacers... ==AM== Just guessing, but maybe the right wheel offset could help compensate for that? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Sep 13 09:14:44 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> Message-ID: Hi, I'm running the Mallory dual point on both my TR6's. On the street car, I had the exact (or similar) behavior where condensors go bad in an unpredictable manner. On the race car, I had problems when I first put the car together, but I did play with the wiring and more than once wound up wiring the ignition wrong which led to no start conditions and head scratching. I use a slightly different coil setup for either car, though. On the race car, I use an MSD blaster coil which has no internal resistance, so I installed an MSD ballast resistor. That setup seems to "eat" less condensors than when I first installed the Mallory dizzy. But if the car is raced on a very hot day, there is some likelyhood that the condensor will fail or start to get flakey. On the street car, I just carried a couple of spares condensors. I tried all sorts of combos in that car. I started with a Crane PS20 (I think) coil (it was already there from when I ran the Crane X700 ignition box). I switched to the MSD Blaster (TR6 has a built-in ballast resistor) - still got failures in what seemed like random fashion. I even bought a Mallory coil - that _should_ work, right? I eventually gave up on the points in the street car and bought a Pertronix Ignitor this year. Owing to the reported "reliability" of the Pertronix, I elected to carry a spare unit in the boot (along with the Mallory dual-point setup - both are ready to drop in at a moments notice. So far I've gone about 2k miles with the Pertronix with no probs - knock wood. For the street car, I was sure that the problem was related to the use of an electric tach because if I left the tach disconnected the points seemed last thousands instead of hundreds of miles. However, while I've been writing this response I thought of another possibility that might come into play. On TR6, when you turn the ignition key and engage the starter, a wire on the starter bypasses the ballast resistor to give 12 vdc to the coil. I wonder if the extra voltage through the coil (the MSD and Crane both have ZERO internal resistance) is a prob for the condensor. Here's something to try - if TR3 bypasses the ballast to the coil (I have no idea how the TR3 is wired) when you start the car, try keeping that wire off the coil and see if the condensors last any longer. On TR6, there's a white wire with black trace that is the 12 feed to the dizzy. On the stock wiring harness, the push on connector is shared with the ballasted wire from the ignition switch, so rather than hack that, you could just leave the other end off the starter (but use a tie wrap to keep it from hitting the exhaust header) and see if that works. The only other thing that I can think of is heat-related internal failure of the condensors, but that's a stretch, at best. As a point of information, I asked the exact same question that you ask about 2 or 3 years ago on this list and at least one other Triumph list. The feedback that I got was inconclusive but practically nobody said "oh ya, I had that problem". I found the lack of similar experience to be frustrating at the time. But if TR3 has a 12 volt feed while you're cranking the engine, try bypassing it so the coil always gets 6 volts and see if the condensors last any longer. FWIW, Summit Racing sells the Mallory condensors (#400) for about $8. They've gone up about $3 in the last 3 years, but I've never had to backorder and I get three or four at a time to spread the shipping costs out. Let us know if the suggstions work. Regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Sep 13 09:23:43 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:23:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> Message-ID: Hi, Sorry for the long posting, but I forgot one thing. When I asked this question before, I got a few responses that said "check the ground". The strap around the condensor has a plating on it (cadmium, I think) and I typically use some fine sandpaper on the surface that mates to the dizzy body to assure a good ground. But if you have a digital multimeter, check the resistance from the condensor body to the battery ground. It should be 0.00. 1 or two ohms is probably okay, but any more than that and you've got a bad ground connection somewhere that needs to be addressed. Regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From S.Janzen at comcast.net Thu Sep 13 09:34:19 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:34:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> Message-ID: <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> I just fitted a Mallory to my GT6 and have been having intermittent ignition problems, mostly a misfire at high speed. What are the symptoms you are experiencing with condenser failure? Several people have mentioned Robert's last comment - including Century, a big Mallory seller - which is that the condenser should be sanded to remove a coating on it which apparently inhibits grounding. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Lang" To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Cc: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems > Hi, > > Sorry for the long posting, but I forgot one thing. When I asked this > question before, I got a few responses that said "check the ground". The > strap around the condensor has a plating on it (cadmium, I think) and I > typically use some fine sandpaper on the surface that mates to the dizzy > body to assure a good ground. But if you have a digital multimeter, check > the resistance from the condensor body to the battery ground. It should be > 0.00. 1 or two ohms is probably okay, but any more than that and you've > got a bad ground connection somewhere that needs to be addressed. > > Regards, > rml > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent > Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | > Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Sep 13 10:01:22 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Sep 2007, Scott Janzen wrote: > I just fitted a Mallory to my GT6 and have been having intermittent ignition > problems, mostly a misfire at high speed. What are the symptoms you are > experiencing with condenser failure? Several people have mentioned Robert's > last comment - including Century, a big Mallory seller - which is that the > condenser should be sanded to remove a coating on it which apparently > inhibits grounding. The condensor failing will show in one of two ways - intermittent poor spark where the car will misfire once or twice under load but the "recover" and total failure. With total failure you get a very weak spark (yellow with a test plug) and in my case the car won't even start (although it might "cough" when trying to start it. If you replace the condensor with a known good one, the car will start up and the misfire is GONE. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Thu Sep 13 10:35:22 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:35:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Message-ID: I put a Mallory Distributor on my Vitesse a few years back, and at the same time fitted the Pertronix Hall-effect unit. Therefore I have never experienced a condensor, or points problem with the Mallory. The reason I fitted the Mallory was because of the wear on my Lucas unit, after all of 12,000 miles from new, plus the horrible quality of the modern reproduction caps and rotor arms, although better rotor arms are now beginning to 'surface'. I had already been using the Pertronix system on both my Vitesse, with Lucas distributor, and previously on my Herald with Lucas distributor, with complete satisfaction of those units. I had previously used other electronic ignition systems, mostly Luminition optical type systems which had proved very unreliable in practice, which is why I avoided Mallory's own optronic system, instead opting for the Pertronix. So far, so good with the Mallory/Petrtronix combo! Hope this helps some. Best Regards Lion From twakeman at razzolink.com Thu Sep 13 11:21:56 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:21:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: <46E971B4.5000702@razzolink.com> Scott Janzen wrote: > What are the symptoms you are experiencing with condenser failure? The failure seems to follow a logarithmic curve. First it is an occasional misfire while driving along and just when I start thinking of buying some new media for my spark plug cleaner it starts acting like I have a badly clogged fuel filter or torn fuel pump diaphragm and the carbs are not getting near enough fuel and then it quickly progresses to seeming like the timing chain jumped a tooth. First time it happened, I checked point gap, the cap rotor & plug wires, then I swapped in a new set of plugs, replaced the fuel filter then the fuel pump. Then drained out all the fuel (The condenser went bad right after I filled the fuel tank), blew out the fuel lines and added different fuel. At wits end I replaced the condenser. In decades of driving this was the first time I had ever had a condenser go bad on me and had no idea what the symptoms might be. Now at the slightest miss I think condenser. I find myself thinking about installing a high volume condenser dispenser, and how many I have to buy at a time to get a volume discount. Will another brand of condenser work? Do I need a special Mallory condenser or can I just go to my cheapo chain store & get something generic? Please keep those suggestions coming. Meanwhile I'll go out and sand the coating off the condenser I installed yesterday to replace the one I installed by the side of the road a few weeks ago. Thanks TeriAnn From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Sep 13 13:51:01 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: <46E971B4.5000702@razzolink.com> References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> <46E971B4.5000702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: Hi, Last time I bought some of the Mallory 400 condensers, the packaging listed the rating of the part, I think it's .28 microfarads. I know that NAPA has replacement condensors that look the same (same can, same connector) but have a blue wire, not orange like the Mallory. The NAPA part works, but I never stress tested to make sure that they work exactly the same as the Mallory part. I think the alternate replacement part is for a Jeep, but I could be wrong. It was def. a "drop-in" replacement. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From budscars at msn.com Thu Sep 13 14:42:31 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:42:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Vintage Spitfire Racecar Project Message-ID: <003101c7f646$9e222550$e883b304@Bud> ----contact Bruce John at bjohn at bart.gov for info Racer Bud MK 1 Vintage Spitfire Racecar Project Car has SCCA Logbook, is completely disassembled for restoration to CSRG approved vintage race configuration. Parts Included: Heavy duty competition after market rear axles GT6 Transmission converted to Spitfire configuration Vitesse close ratio transmission Several stock transmissions 4.11 Locked 3rd members Lightened steel flywheel Aluminum flywheel Hooker header Custom built HD Radiator Fuel cell with Aluminum housing 3 -1147 engines $1200.00 for all Bruce Bjohn at bart.gov Work: 510-464-6864 Home: 510-530-0614 From jaboruch at netzero.net Thu Sep 13 15:20:12 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:20:12 GMT Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Message-ID: <20070913.172012.26009.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> I had at this same problem with bad condensers a few years ago on my race TR3. I decided (after consulting this esteemed group) that Mallory was making junk condensers and gave up on them. I gutted the mallory dual point of the advance weights (had these fail too), condenser and one set of points. Now I just use a set of points as a trigger for an MSD6AL box and use an MSD electronic advance box. Joe(B) -- TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: Earlier this year I gave up on my Lucas distributor and converted to a Mallory dual point system. I've been much happier with the distributor curve. However it goes through condensers like popcorn at the movies. Some go bad in as little as 1000 miles. This is the first time I ever had condensers go bad on me. I'm puzzled by the cause and any suggestions would be welcome. Vehicle Triumph TR3A. Coil Lucas Sport coil Newer battery with freshly cleaned terminals. Battery wiring stock. Electrical wiring stock except for alternator conversion and electric fan. I've never had a condenser go bad with a Lucas distributor in the same environment. Voltmeter shows no resistance ground between point ground plate and distributor body. Are Mallory condensers unusually fragile? Is there a common substitute I can use that is a bit more robust? Is there something I'm overlooking? Right now I'm afraid to go out to dinner or to the grocery store without a spare condenser and tools in the boot. TeriAnn jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click to find great rates on medical insurance, save big, shop here. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmNwFdMlhcDuS98ik2sJAy1AW4 u5m7oGpsRFbDbsFhB0ojkd/ From vintage.racer at comcast.net Thu Sep 13 16:08:55 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:08:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory Distributor Message-ID: <001f01c7f652$ad111ec0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: I installed a Mallory dual point distributor with Bosch coil on my racing TR4 last year and have run six events without a problem. Then during the last race, I noticed a "hesitation" at about 4,500 rpm under acceleration which I attributed to vibration upsetting the fuel supply in the carbs (new motor mounts, hard mounted carbs). I have since isolated the carbs with the Weber style rubber mounts, hope this solves the problem. However, after reading this thread, I'm also going to do a bit of light sanding of the condenser as suggested just in case it is contributing or is the cause of the dreaded hesitation. My street TR6 uses a stock ignition setup and I've had zero problems in the eight months I've owned the car. Granted, its an around town car, no extended trips so far but it starts right up every time and the engine runs nice and smooth. Gary 62 TR4 69 TR6 From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Thu Sep 13 17:43:49 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:43:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? In-Reply-To: <8C9C42578E164BC-4F0-B52@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com> References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <8C9C42578E164BC-4F0-B52@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <008101c7f65f$f07ba6f0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> I've done it for short term while acquiring a proper axle. The toe-in will be wrong unless you do something to compensate. Otherwise ok. But why bother? Clark -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of herald948 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:00 AM To: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us some laps? ==AM== I don't think you'd need to switch springs, but there are differences in radius rods and/or mounts to the body (not sure which) and in brake hydraulic hoses. Also, if the car with the shorter "donor" axles is old enough, it might have the smaller flanges to the differential? Otherwise, it's only a 2" total difference in track width. Maybe that's a lot, but possibly a bit of creativity with wheels and/or wheel spacers could compensate? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Thu Sep 13 20:10:30 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:10:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> Message-ID: <003901c7f674$6d6986a0$6401a8c0@TER2> The capacitance of the condensor is related to the resistance of the priimary windings of the coil that is in the circuit. So the coil is critical!. The Mallory condensors may also not be as robust as they could be. A couple of years ago, when setting up a Mallory unit for a competition car, I noticed that the total dwell time available using the dual poiints in the Mallory system was WAY less than the 60 degrees of dwell available when using a Lucas 25 D or DM2 distributor. I called Mallory and taked to one of their engineers about this. Their response was that the windings of the Lucas coils are such that they take longer to charge up and so require a longer dwell time and a Mallory brand coil. He suggested that a Mallory coil was necessary in order to get the most perfromance from the Mallory distributor and that the condensor would then be matched to the coil. Greg Solow. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 7:35 AM Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems > Earlier this year I gave up on my Lucas distributor and converted to a > Mallory dual point system. I've been much happier with the distributor > curve. However it goes through condensers like popcorn at the movies. > Some go bad in as little as 1000 miles. This is the first time I ever > had condensers go bad on me. > > I'm puzzled by the cause and any suggestions would be welcome. > > Vehicle Triumph TR3A. > Coil Lucas Sport coil > Newer battery with freshly cleaned terminals. Battery wiring stock. > Electrical wiring stock except for alternator conversion and electric > fan. I've never had a condenser go bad with a Lucas distributor in the > same environment. > > Voltmeter shows no resistance ground between point ground plate and > distributor body. > > Are Mallory condensers unusually fragile? Is there a common substitute > I can use that is a bit more robust? Is there something I'm overlooking? > > Right now I'm afraid to go out to dinner or to the grocery store without > a spare condenser and tools in the boot. > > TeriAnn > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From emanteno at comcast.net Thu Sep 13 20:59:37 2007 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 02:59:37 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <091420070259.2714.46E9F918000BCB3300000A9A2207021573970A9D010507@comcast.net> Friends, I'd like to nominate Mark Vaden for membership in the FOT. Mark is in SoCal and is prepping a 62 TR4 to race with VARA, and I know he needs our help. Seconds? Mark's email is markvaden at gmail.com Irv Korey From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 21:26:51 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <091420070259.2714.46E9F918000BCB3300000A9A2207021573970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <340523.45358.qm@web57613.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Wow the guy has two strikes against him already; 1st) being nominated by Irv the Perv and 2nd) needing our help; but okay, a second. Welcome, Ernie Husmann emanteno at comcast.net wrote: Friends, I'd like to nominate Mark Vaden for membership in the FOT. Mark is in SoCal and is prepping a 62 TR4 to race with VARA, and I know he needs our help. Seconds? Mark's email is markvaden at gmail.com Irv Korey ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From BillB at bnj.com Thu Sep 13 21:18:43 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:18:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com><002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com><46E971B4.5000702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: There's nothing magic about the Mallory condensors (capacitors)--anything will work just as well. Condensers ideally are matched to the coil and ballast resistor, the distributor type doesn't matter except that dual point distys have really long dwell so the coil gets well saturated. I haven't had much problem with my mallory capacitors, but it's probably for two reasons--I run straight battery so my system runs at lower voltage, and I have a ballast resistor permanently wired in place. The condensors have to handle about 400 volts, that's what the voltage may climb to when the points open and the magnetic flux collapses. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Robert Lang Sent: Thu 9/13/2007 12:51 PM To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Hi, Last time I bought some of the Mallory 400 condensers, the packaging listed the rating of the part, I think it's .28 microfarads. I know that NAPA has replacement condensors that look the same (same can, same connector) but have a blue wire, not orange like the Mallory. The NAPA part works, but I never stress tested to make sure that they work exactly the same as the Mallory part. I think the alternate replacement part is for a Jeep, but I could be wrong. It was def. a "drop-in" replacement. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 21:35:48 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:35:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: <003901c7f674$6d6986a0$6401a8c0@TER2> References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> <003901c7f674$6d6986a0$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0709132035x586b6dag78d5ccac64f3d6a9@mail.gmail.com> Of course, one other splution is to get rid of the points and use a Mallory Unilite [spelling?] conversion -- seems to work very well for me. On 9/13/07, Greg Solow wrote: > > The capacitance of the condensor is related to the resistance of the > priimary windings of the coil that is in the circuit. So the coil is > critical!. The Mallory condensors may also not be as robust as they could > be. > A couple of years ago, when setting up a Mallory unit for a > competition > car, I noticed that the total dwell time available using the dual poiints > in > the Mallory system was WAY less than the 60 degrees of dwell available > when > using a Lucas 25 D or DM2 distributor. I called Mallory and taked to one > of > their engineers about this. Their response was that the windings of the > Lucas coils are such that they take longer to charge up and so require a > longer dwell time and a Mallory brand coil. He suggested that a Mallory > coil > was necessary in order to get the most perfromance from the Mallory > distributor and that the condensor would then be matched to the coil. > > Greg Solow. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" > To: "Friends of Triumph" > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 7:35 AM > Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems > > > > Earlier this year I gave up on my Lucas distributor and converted to a > > Mallory dual point system. I've been much happier with the distributor > > curve. However it goes through condensers like popcorn at the movies. > > Some go bad in as little as 1000 miles. This is the first time I ever > > had condensers go bad on me. > > > > I'm puzzled by the cause and any suggestions would be welcome. > > > > Vehicle Triumph TR3A. > > Coil Lucas Sport coil > > Newer battery with freshly cleaned terminals. Battery wiring stock. > > Electrical wiring stock except for alternator conversion and electric > > fan. I've never had a condenser go bad with a Lucas distributor in the > > same environment. > > > > Voltmeter shows no resistance ground between point ground plate and > > distributor body. > > > > Are Mallory condensers unusually fragile? Is there a common substitute > > I can use that is a bit more robust? Is there something I'm overlooking? > > > > Right now I'm afraid to go out to dinner or to the grocery store without > > a spare condenser and tools in the boot. > > > > TeriAnn > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From BillB at bnj.com Thu Sep 13 22:55:35 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:55:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Single wire alternator References: <46E8AAE5.000001.05828@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> Message-ID: I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone turn off their kill switch and nothing happens. I suspect that's one of the most common race car wiring errors. By the way, your solution isn't a great one--you'll have battery voltage to your alternator all the time. What you really need is a double pole kill switch with the alternator wire connecting to the smaller switch and then to either the batter or engine side. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of jwags at dotnet.com Sent: Wed 9/12/2007 8:13 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Single wire alternator I don't often have things to say, but last night while getting the purple(74) TR3 ready for Road America I turned the kill switch off with the engine running and to my surprise Everything kept running,engine,fuel pump,fan, O my! Even the brake lights worked. With a little time on the web I fond that a single wire alternator needs to be hook to The battery side of the kill switch, and not the starter. A little longer and larger wire Did the trick. We had been running like that for years. Tech always checks the switch with the engine Off. So if any one in FOT land thinks they might be in the same boat starter up and Turn off the kill switch. Just the wrench John Wagner billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mdporter at dfn.com Thu Sep 13 23:16:54 2007 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:16:54 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Single wire alternator In-Reply-To: References: <46E8AAE5.000001.05828@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> Message-ID: <46EA1946.2050409@dfn.com> Bill Babcock wrote: > I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone turn off their kill switch > and nothing happens. I suspect that's one of the most common race car wiring > errors. By the way, your solution isn't a great one--you'll have battery > voltage to your alternator all the time. What you really need is a double pole > kill switch with the alternator wire connecting to the smaller switch and then > to either the batter or engine side. > > > My story about this is more commercial than hobby. When Detroit Diesel first started to put electronic controls on their commercial engines, their engine computers ran on 12V and the injector drivers on 24V. So, when the 12V kill switch was turned off, the engine quit. Then, with the Series 50, they converted to their DDEC III computer, which ran entirely on 24V. Now, no one thought about it, because there was a 24V kill switch, too. Shut them both off, the engine should shut down in an emergency. But, they didn't. The MBTA in Boston went nuts on a new order of buses, because they'd trained all the emergency personnel, fire, cops, ambulance, their own people, to shut down the engines in an emergency with the kill switches. It was a simple circuit problem--because of the way the harnesses were wired--with separate 12V and 24V circuits and regulators, the 24V side formed a loop with the alternator charging circuit which kept the computer voltage at 24V. Hence, nothing stopped when the 24V switch was thrown to off. When I heard my boss explaining to the MBTA on the phone about how our engineers said it would take $600/bus and a year to design a fix, I went to the catalogs and found a Cole-Hersee switch with a field shut-off for about four bucks more than we were paying for the 12V switch from them we were using, and designed a jumper harness to the 24V reg circuit that cost us $1.80 to make. That Cole-Hersee switch is probably still in the catalogs (ten years ago, it was about $40 in bulk) and was made for marine use (silver-plated contacts). That's the way to fix any problem with persistent running. Shut off the battery positively, shut off the field and/or alternator output positively (in the case of single-wire units) and the electrons stop, too. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Fri Sep 14 06:36:51 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 07:36:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? In-Reply-To: <008101c7f65f$f07ba6f0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <8C9C42578E164BC-4F0-B52@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com> <008101c7f65f$f07ba6f0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7471590C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <> 'Cuz I need to do it short term while acquiring a proper axle :-) I've got some alternative trailing arms I hope to use to get the toe right - no real way to know until the axles are in the car. Thanks, Clark. Scott B. -----Original Message----- From: Clark W. Nicholls [mailto:clarkfot at cwnicholls.net] Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 6:44 PM To: herald948 at aol.com; Barr, Scott; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? I've done it for short term while acquiring a proper axle. The toe-in will be wrong unless you do something to compensate. Otherwise ok. But why bother? Clark -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of herald948 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:00 AM To: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us some laps? ==AM== I don't think you'd need to switch springs, but there are differences in radius rods and/or mounts to the body (not sure which) and in brake hydraulic hoses. Also, if the car with the shorter "donor" axles is old enough, it might have the smaller flanges to the differential? Otherwise, it's only a 2" total difference in track width. Maybe that's a lot, but possibly a bit of creativity with wheels and/or wheel spacers could compensate? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Fri Sep 14 08:05:47 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 07:05:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com><8C9C42578E164BC-4F0-B52@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com><008101c7f65f$f07ba6f0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7471590C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <001401c7f6d8$59b8ca80$2d02a8c0@Belkin> Get some of Clive Averill's aluminum turnbuckle radius arms with the Hiem joint ends. Then you can set the toe as you need. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barr, Scott" To: "Clark W. Nicholls" ; ; Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 5:36 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? > <> 'Cuz I need to do it short term while acquiring a > proper axle :-) > > I've got some alternative trailing arms I hope to use to get the toe > right - no real way to know until the axles are in the car. > > Thanks, Clark. > > Scott B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Clark W. Nicholls [mailto:clarkfot at cwnicholls.net] > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 6:44 PM > To: herald948 at aol.com; Barr, Scott; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: RE: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? > > I've done it for short term while acquiring a proper axle. > The toe-in will be wrong unless you do something to compensate. > Otherwise ok. > But why bother? > Clark > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > herald948 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:00 AM > To: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barr, Scott > > Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work > on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? > > The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us > some laps? > > ==AM== > I don't think you'd need to switch springs, but there are differences in > radius rods and/or mounts to the body (not sure which) and in brake > hydraulic hoses. Also, if the car with the shorter "donor" axles is old > enough, it might have the smaller flanges to the differential? > > Otherwise, it's only a 2" total difference in track width. Maybe that's > a lot, but possibly a bit of creativity with wheels and/or wheel spacers > could compensate? > > --Andy Mace > > *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? > *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, > Triumph Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > > Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph > Herald Database at its new URL: > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > clarkfot at cwnicholls.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Fri Sep 14 09:03:16 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:03:16 GMT Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Message-ID: <20070914.110316.4067.1@webmail01.dca.untd.com> I also do not run an alternator and had a ballast resistor, but kept having failed condensers. Maybe the Accel Super Coil was not a good match, but the combination did work well for years. Joe(B) -- "Bill Babcock" wrote: There's nothing magic about the Mallory condensors (capacitors)--anything will work just as well. Condensers ideally are matched to the coil and ballast resistor, the distributor type doesn't matter except that dual point distys have really long dwell so the coil gets well saturated. I haven't had much problem with my mallory capacitors, but it's probably for two reasons--I run straight battery so my system runs at lower voltage, and I have a ballast resistor permanently wired in place. The condensors have to handle about 400 volts, that's what the voltage may climb to when the points open and the magnetic flux collapses. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Robert Lang Sent: Thu 9/13/2007 12:51 PM To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Hi, Last time I bought some of the Mallory 400 condensers, the packaging listed the rating of the part, I think it's .28 microfarads. I know that NAPA has replacement condensors that look the same (same can, same connector) but have a blue wire, not orange like the Mallory. The NAPA part works, but I never stress tested to make sure that they work exactly the same as the Mallory part. I think the alternate replacement part is for a Jeep, but I could be wrong. It was def. a "drop-in" replacement. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click here and get the professional resume help you need. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlRJjPdbA489riu5RA4sJjDxkd M4A90Kb3VkzOOTCTEZ6AWW/ From S.Janzen at comcast.net Fri Sep 14 10:03:39 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:03:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems References: <20070914.110316.4067.1@webmail01.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <001601c7f6e8$d11f3f40$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> OK - dumb question, but how do I know if I need a ballast resistor and what capicity/where should it be wired? Have the afore-mentioned Mallory set-up, currently running with a Bosch Blue coil, no visible resistor anywhere. The GT6 has a totally bastardized wiring system - very little stock left (rear wiring harness bits) but no resistor anywhere. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Boruch" To: Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems >I also do not run an alternator and had a ballast resistor, but kept having > failed condensers. Maybe the Accel Super Coil was not a good match, but > the > combination did work well for years. Joe(B) > > -- "Bill Babcock" wrote: > There's nothing magic about the Mallory condensors (capacitors)--anything > will > work just as well. Condensers ideally are matched to the coil and ballast > resistor, the distributor type doesn't matter except that dual point > distys > have really long dwell so the coil gets well saturated. > > I haven't had much problem with my mallory capacitors, but it's probably > for > two reasons--I run straight battery so my system runs at lower voltage, > and I > have a ballast resistor permanently wired in place. > > The condensors have to handle about 400 volts, that's what the voltage may > climb to when the points open and the magnetic flux collapses. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Robert Lang > Sent: Thu 9/13/2007 12:51 PM > To: TeriAnn Wakeman > Cc: Friends of Triumph > Subject: Re: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems > > Hi, > > Last time I bought some of the Mallory 400 condensers, the packaging > listed the rating of the part, I think it's .28 microfarads. > > I know that NAPA has replacement condensors that look the same (same can, > same connector) but have a blue wire, not orange like the Mallory. The > NAPA part works, but I never stress tested to make sure that they work > exactly the same as the Mallory part. > > I think the alternate replacement part is for a Jeep, but I could be > wrong. It was def. a "drop-in" replacement. > > regards, > rml > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent > Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | > Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > jaboruch at netzero.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _____________________________________________________________ > Click here and get the professional resume help you need. > http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlRJjPdbA489riu5RA4sJjDxkd > M4A90Kb3VkzOOTCTEZ6AWW/ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 14 10:09:40 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:09:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Message-ID: In a message dated 9/14/2007 12:04:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, S.Janzen at comcast.net writes: currently running with a Bosch Blue coil, no visible resistor anywhere. The blue is internally ballasted IIRC, you can check between the LT terminals, around 2-3 ohms... Glen not a tweet ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From RYoung at navcomtech.com Fri Sep 14 12:14:01 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 11:14:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com><002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com><46E971B4.5000702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: > There's nothing magic about the Mallory condensors > (capacitors)--anything will > work just as well. FWIW, they don't even need to be inside the distributor. Some VWs have them mounted to the coil on the firewall, where I'll bet they last longer. Randall From joeg at neb.rr.com Fri Sep 14 23:06:12 2007 From: joeg at neb.rr.com (Joe Guinan) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 00:06:12 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Joe B III in "SportsCar" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000801c7f756$23758160$43a6544c@Guinan> I was just reading my October issue of the SCCA club magazine, and ran across an article about Joe Boruch III, progeny of our own Joe (B). It was a very complimentary article about a kid that seems to have his head screwed on right. As the father of an 18 year old, I know that's about the highest compliment you can pay to a parent. Congratulations Joe and Anne on raising a fine son. Joe Guinan Fremont, NE From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Sep 17 08:00:44 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:00:44 GMT Subject: [Fot] Joe B III in "SportsCar" Message-ID: <20070917.100044.11399.1@webmail18.dca.untd.com> Thanks Joe, your compliments are appreciated. He can be a handfull at times, since he is smarter than both of us combined. He does not know as much yet, so we are still a step ahead of him. He wants to fly and race (and the list goes on), so to do that he knows that he has to stay away from drugs and alcohol. Joe(B) -- "Joe Guinan" wrote: I was just reading my October issue of the SCCA club magazine, and ran across an article about Joe Boruch III, progeny of our own Joe (B). It was a very complimentary article about a kid that seems to have his head screwed on right. As the father of an 18 year old, I know that's about the highest compliment you can pay to a parent. Congratulations Joe and Anne on raising a fine son. Joe Guinan Fremont, NE jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Be your own boss today! Go to Technical School. Click here. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijngzTZEG1xkGl6yJ9hABq1Qx1r 2VWxgq8v6pDPDOoosC60vb/ From rikrock at aol.com Mon Sep 17 09:14:16 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:14:16 -0400 Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? Message-ID: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> British Parts Northwest is selling trimetal rod bearings they claim are made from the same materials as Vandervell VP2 bearings.? Has anyone seen or used these new beaings? Opinions, please. Thanks! Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From BillB at bnj.com Mon Sep 17 14:37:31 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:37:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? References: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of rikrock at aol.com Sent: Mon 9/17/2007 8:14 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? if anyone is doing oh they would they get a lot of stuff made and its generally good. I'll deck omit when I get home would be good news British Parts Northwest is selling trimetal rod bearings they claim are made from the same materials as Vandervell VP2 bearings.? Has anyone seen or used these new beaings? Opinions, please. Thank! Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Sep 17 17:59:52 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:59:52 -0800 Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? References: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003d01c7f986$d6f20e70$1a02a8c0@workstation3> I've been using these bearings for over a year and they hold up well. I'll be taking the engine apart this winter and I'll see how well they really have done. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:14 AM Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? > British Parts Northwest is selling trimetal rod bearings they claim are made from the same materials as Vandervell VP2 bearings.? Has anyone seen or used these new beaings? > > Opinions, please. > > Thanks! > > Rich Rock > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 13 12:40:09 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:40:09 EDT Subject: [Fot] VTR's TVT Magazine Message-ID: Got my issue today....one of the best. Thanks Mike Cook! Gary Horstkorta hit a home run with his article on his Competition TR4 and the use of Tony Viglioti's new Triumph Chassis. Congratulations to Bill Sohl....Honored Member of VTR. JA From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 17 17:02:49 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:02:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe From TR4racr at aol.com Mon Sep 17 17:10:27 2007 From: TR4racr at aol.com (TR4racr at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:10:27 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: I plan to attend the FOT at The Glen race in Sept 08, Thanks George Wright Mechanicsville,Va 1961 TR4 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 17 17:14:04 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:14:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] Road America Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival Message-ID: Alexander Racing became a member of the HOLE IN BLOCK GANG, in a spectacular way, coming into Corner Station Five. It was captured in it's entirety by an MG guy, who suffered the same fate the day before, and had his camera in the ready. Absolutely amazing cloud of oil, but no resulting fire. There are no longer any mosquitoes in that immediate vicintity. 2nd coming of the Exxon Valdez, methinks. My aopologies to the four racers behind me that did not complete the turn. I am pleased to say that there are no repairs to any cars needed, outside of my block. This block has been run in #197 since 1992. It deserves a rest. Great turnout by Triumphs. I'll leave it to others to spread the good news. It was a very good weekend. Joe Alexander Mark Alexander From sgroh1 at comcast.net Mon Sep 17 19:52:10 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (Steven Groh) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 21:52:10 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER References: Message-ID: <000d01c7f996$86ccfc60$6401a8c0@steven2sbouwlk> Me, too! Steve Groh SVRA #393 Spitfire E/P (This year's US Vintage Grand Prix was EXCELLENT!!!!!! Attending and driving Triumphs were: Bill Babcock Dick Stockton Henry Frye Cornell Babcock Randy Williams Bill Tobin Ed Ceilley Bill Shanahan Steve Groh ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Cc: ; Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER >I plan to attend the FOT at The Glen race in Sept 08, > Thanks > George Wright > Mechanicsville,Va > 1961 TR4 > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From greenman62 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 17 20:39:22 2007 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 02:39:22 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Road America Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >This block has been run in #197 since 1992. It deserves a rest. Hmmmm... it's probably sending out it's resume for a job as boat anchor... Saw yer smoke... Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Sep 17 20:42:41 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 02:42:41 GMT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: <20070917.224241.25591.0@webmail14.dca.untd.com> I plan to participate with my EP TR3. Jack Woerhle has given me an ok for this event. Joe(B) -- N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Online Stock Trading - Straightforward pricing. Powerful tools. Click here! http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijle4mmJsYXoiMzdKdMNGUtnfAF GlelE0joyTO3mPuOgTwUNS/ From DSPGTi at aol.com Mon Sep 17 20:59:10 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 22:59:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: My personal goal is to rebuild my 62 TR4 over the winter, test in the spring, get my SVRA license (or waiver) and be ready for "The Glen" in 08. Dave Yeager ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From mark at bradakis.com Mon Sep 17 21:01:28 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 21:01:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46EF3F88.5060402@bradakis.com> Maybe if I staqrt planning now I can fly out to spectate for the weekend. mjb. From triumphs at consolidated.net Mon Sep 17 22:26:05 2007 From: triumphs at consolidated.net (Ken Gano, home) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 23:26:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Have the dates been set? kg -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+triumphs=consolidated.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+triumphs=consolidated.net at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 6:03 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: JWoesvra at aol.com; Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe triumphs at consolidated.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Tue Sep 18 03:58:27 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 04:58:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? In-Reply-To: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <200709180958.l8I9wjw5008876@ns3.geneseo.net> I bought them and installed them. When I got them, I did not se evidence of the tri metal construction, and they were stamped "County" on the back. I asked BPNW about this, and they said that they were indeed different but with the current state of bearing company mergers, they were run through the same factory as the other County bearings. I should have scraped the edge to see what evidence I could find, but I did not do this. At 10:14 AM 9/17/2007, rikrock at aol.com wrote: >British Parts Northwest is selling trimetal rod bearings they claim >are made from the same materials as Vandervell VP2 bearings.? Has >anyone seen or used these new beaings? > >Opinions, please. > >Thanks! > >Rich Rock > >________________________________________________________________________ >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL >Mail! - http://mail.aol.com >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 05:57:56 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:57:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] Engine Failure #197 @ Road America Message-ID: Thanks for all of the replies and questions on the demise of the engine. Teardown should commence shortly. Cause is unknown at this point. Uncle Jack and I are going to perform an autopsy and will pass along any relevant information that may be of use to the FoT Wet Sleeve Crowd. There are two or more valves seized in the valve guides. One of them is at the #2 cylinder from the front. There are two pushrods that look like wine cork removers. One is at #2 cylinder. There is a hole in the block about the size of a child's fist. This is located at what appears to be the #2 connecting rod from the front. I draw no conclusions from this, but there seems to be a pattern. I recently acquired a 7 foot STAINLESS STEEL bench that looks suspiciously like an autopsy table. We will be putting it to good use. Joe (A) From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Sep 18 06:36:40 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:36:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070918123727.E8010187A16@autox.team.net> It's likely that Uncle Jack and Tony will attend. - Tony At 06:02 PM 9/17/2007, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: >FoT List: > >I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > >He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their >major event in September of next year. > >Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and >Running of the Original Street Course. > >Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our >Grand Marshall. > >The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car >for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > >We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack >Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > >It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an >indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > >Regards, > >Joe From jsnook at wcnet.org Tue Sep 18 07:27:56 2007 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:27:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER References: Message-ID: <012901c7f9f7$bed2c1b0$0301a8c0@JeffsNotebook> I plan on attending with my TR3A. Jeff Snook www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: JWoesvra at aol.com ; Jensen87 at aol.com Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 6:02 PM Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html jsnook_gmi at wcnet.org Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 18 08:29:56 2007 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Slightly OT: New clothing line Message-ID: <457598.47346.qm@web83102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Check out this link: http://www.autofieldguide.com/dp/auto/newsmonger.cfm?id=1539 Doug -- dmitchel at sbcglobal.net From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 18 08:35:43 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:35:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? References: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: You probably all thought I was on drugs or something with the message below. Actually I was sending it on my iPhone without benefit of reading glasses. What I meants to say was: \If anyone is doing it they would. They get a lot of stuff made and it's generally good. I'll check it out when I get home. It would be good news. I am, byt the way, back home in Portland. The house seems daunting after four months living in half a trailer. My office is a mess and so is my shop. I'll have to clean for days before I can even start on Peyote. Oh well. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Bill Babcock Sent: Mon 9/17/2007 1:37 PM To: rikrock at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of rikrock at aol.com Sent: Mon 9/17/2007 8:14 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? if anyone is doing oh they would they get a lot of stuff made and its generally good. I'll deck omit when I get home would be good news British Parts Northwest is selling trimetal rod bearings they claim are made from the same materials as Vandervell VP2 bearings.? Has anyone seen or used these new beaings? Opinions, please. Thank! Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fo From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 18 08:40:06 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:40:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER References: Message-ID: Maybe I need to start talking with Tony Garmey and Bill Hart. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Mon 9/17/2007 4:02 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: JWoesvra at aol.com; Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 18 09:21:01 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:21:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: In a message dated 09/18/2007 9:48:27 AM Central Daylight Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: > Maybe I need to start talking with Tony Garmey and Bill Hart. > And Bill Warner on the other coast. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 18 09:36:51 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:36:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: September 18, 2007 11:21 AM To: BillB at bnj.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; fot at autox.team.net Cc: JWoesvra at aol.com; Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In a message dated 09/18/2007 9:48:27 AM Central Daylight Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: > Maybe I need to start talking with Tony Garmey and Bill Hart. > And Bill Warner on the other coast. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com macdonaldp at rogers.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 18 09:51:46 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:51:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From John.Reed at wilson.com Tue Sep 18 10:10:14 2007 From: John.Reed at wilson.com (John.Reed at wilson.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:10:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What a cool car!! Regards, John Reed Staff Photographer Wilson Sporting Goods Co. 8750 W Bryn Mawr Ave, Chicago, Illinois 60631, USA Tel. + 1.773.714.6895, fax +1.773.714.4585 John.Reed at wilson.com www.wilson.com www.amersports.com Please note that effective immediately, my e-mail , phone number and street address have changed. Please update your files accordingly. "Paul MacDonald" Sent by: fot-bounces+jreed=wilson.com at autox.team.net 09/18/07 08:51 AM To cc Subject Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot jreed at wilson.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. From S.Janzen at comcast.net Tue Sep 18 11:35:23 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:35:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER References: Message-ID: <004101c7fa1a$4bcbce50$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Interesting to see what a good looking car the TR7 could have been . . . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul MacDonald" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. > > > http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php > > Paul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of > Paul MacDonald > Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > > > The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as > well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. > > http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html > > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 18 11:47:14 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:47:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER References: Message-ID: Yikes, who owns that? I wonder if it's for sale? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Paul MacDonald Sent: Tue 9/18/2007 8:51 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From deanesr at uncw.edu Tue Sep 18 12:25:34 2007 From: deanesr at uncw.edu (Deanes, Robert) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:25:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: <004101c7fa1a$4bcbce50$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: <46F56ACD52BC5F4F911EF9C4264FB4640CF74690@UNCWMAILVS1.dcs.uncw.edu> Glad to see there is going to be a big turn out of TR's at Watkins Glen, never been there myself but will bring my TR-4 up for this event, sounds like it will be "TR County". From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 18 12:59:41 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <584812.53566.qm@web57611.mail.re1.yahoo.com> While it would be really nice to see this Le Mans TR; it would also be nice to see any Wedge racer able to pass tech inspection on the track. This would be for us younger FoT members of course. Paul MacDonald wrote: Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 18 13:22:29 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:22:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: RE: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBERBert Smeets just bought it a couple of years ago and tried to get it ready for LeMans vintage 2007 race, but that didn't happen as far as I know. The following link gives a bit of background on him. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/classifieds.php Bert owns several factory built vintage TR7V8 rally cars and enters rallies regularly competing against modern machinery...and doing well too! The Le Mans car was written up recently in Classics Monthly magazine. Car has been completely stripped, with rebuilt power train including having the twin turbo engine rebuilt by John Eales. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock [mailto:BillB at bnj.com] Sent: September 18, 2007 1:47 PM To: Paul MacDonald; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Yikes, who owns that? I wonder if it's for sale? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Paul MacDonald Sent: Tue 9/18/2007 8:51 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rikrock at aol.com Tue Sep 18 14:15:01 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:15:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: <46F56ACD52BC5F4F911EF9C4264FB4640CF74690@UNCWMAILVS1.dcs.uncw.edu> Message-ID: <8C9C847BA489F37-774-6CC2@MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com> This is good news! The (Bob Stadel) Ambro will be there. Was a decision ever made on the offer from the Beaver Run/PVGP folks to feature Triumph at the July event? Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 14:57:48 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:57:48 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: Rich, Stadel Appearance: This is very good. I hope to have an Ambro there, but I will call that a 50/50 chance at this point. No final conclusion has been reached on Beaver/Run. But the response was dismal, especially when compared to Watkins Glen. I need to get back to Beaver/Run, unless someone else would like to promote this event. BTW, I would like to see other FoT organizing a 'focus' event in their areas or favorite venues. There are 12 months in the year and North America is a big place. Joe (A) > This is good news! The (Bob Stadel) Ambro will be there. > Was a decision ever made on the offer from the Beaver Run/PVGP folks to > feature Triumph at the July event? > > > Rich Rock > From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 15:03:15 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:03:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] Bill Warner to bring both of his Triumphs......to Watkins Glen Message-ID: FoT!!! Another Bell Ringer...I just got off the 'phone' with Carl Jensen. Carl says, "I spoke with Bill Warner and he will bring both of his cars. CJ" It hasnt even been 24 hours yet, and the response has been quite impressive. Joe (A) From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 16:59:10 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 18:59:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: FoT, I am looking for a host hotel. I have stayed in Corning, NY with good success with good rooms at good rates. I have one in mind. Does anyone else have an inside track on this? A favorite Hotel? I have negotiated special rates before. I will try again. Joe Alexander From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 18 17:44:08 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:44:08 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 References: Message-ID: There's only two great choices--the Seneca Lodge and the hotel that Ed and Bruce stay at--chime in here guys. I bet if we committed early we could get most of the Seneca Lodge. Great bar. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Tue 9/18/2007 3:59 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 FoT, I am looking for a host hotel. I have stayed in Corning, NY with good success with good rooms at good rates. I have one in mind. Does anyone else have an inside track on this? A favorite Hotel? I have negotiated special rates before. I will try again. Joe Alexander billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 18 17:58:23 2007 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <27206.49261.qm@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Count me and my TR4 in...............................I said the same about Utah and look what happened. Dennis DeLap N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From JWoesvra at aol.com Tue Sep 18 18:33:10 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:33:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 9/18/2007 7:47:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: There's only two great choices--the Seneca Lodge and the hotel that Ed and Bruce stay at--chime in here guys. I bet if we committed early we could get most of the Seneca Lodge. Great bar. Yeah, the week after holloween! The Seneca is booked by most folks on a yearly basis. You might get a room or two if someone cancels at the last minute. It won't hurt to check however. They could build a new wing. Contact the CofC soon and you might find another place in town. There will be places, but you MUST book soon. Jack Woehrle ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From brad.kahler at 141.com Tue Sep 18 19:07:45 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:07:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46F07661.6020204@141.com> Susan and Brad will likely be there provided work doesn't interfere and there is enough vacation time available. Brad N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT List: > > I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > > He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their > major event in September of next year. > > Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and > Running of the Original Street Course. > > Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our > Grand Marshall. > > The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car > for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > > We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack > Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > > It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an > indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > > Regards, > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > brad.kahler at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 19:16:17 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:16:17 EDT Subject: [Fot] Platform for AMBRO Build Message-ID: There is a TR3A rolling chassis for sale on eBay. Totally restored and in Mansfield, Ohio. From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 19:24:51 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:24:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: Understanding what Jack has to say,I am looking outside of Watkins Glen for convenience and price. But if someone has a better inside track, go for it. I have stayed in or near Corning a few times with fair convenience and under $100. Joe A > Yeah, the week after holloween! > > The Seneca is booked by most folks on a yearly basis. You might get a room > or two if someone cancels at the last minute. It won't hurt to check however. > They could build a new wing. > > Contact the CofC soon and you might find another place in town. > > There will be places, but you MUST book soon. > > Jack Woehrle > From westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net Tue Sep 18 21:17:01 2007 From: westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net (westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 03:17:01 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: <091920070317.16871.46F094AC000B5FE7000041E72160375964990E04D2069D@att.net> Seneca has the history. My first Glen was in 1965. I didn't have the money to stay there (college student and slept in my TR-3) but it is where the F-1 drives stayed. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from "Bill Babcock" : -------------- > There's only two great choices--the Seneca Lodge and the hotel that Ed and > Bruce stay at--chime in here guys. > > I bet if we committed early we could get most of the Seneca Lodge. Great bar. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of N197TR4 at cs.com > Sent: Tue 9/18/2007 3:59 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 > > FoT, I am looking for a host hotel. I have stayed in Corning, NY with good > success with good rooms at good rates. > > I have one in mind. > > Does anyone else have an inside track on this? > > A favorite Hotel? > > I have negotiated special rates before. I will try again. > > Joe Alexander > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > westerneagleracing at att.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 19 07:30:43 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:30:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Watkins_Glen=A0=A0_Host_Hotel=3F=A0=A0_2008?= Message-ID: Okay, I guessed I have missed something, Am I to assume from this communication that the official FOT meet is at SVRA Watkins Glen in Sept? If so, can someone send me an official release to publish? To keep up with the Jones and the Warners does this mean I need to get the 69 Championship Group 44 GT6 done by then? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillDentin at aol.com Wed Sep 19 07:41:00 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:41:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 09/18/2007 10:17:26 PM Central Daylight Time, westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net writes: > Seneca has the history. My first Glen was in 1965. I didn't have the > money to stay there (college student and slept in my TR-3) but it is where the > F-1 drives stayed. > Amici... While I agree 100%, that any trip to WATKINS GLEN that did not include a stop at the Seneca Lodge would be a mistake, I see no chance to making it an FOT Headquarters. That because, as Jack says, it is booked nearly 100% on a year to year basis. I'll also suggest that while you can't beat the history involved, its rooms are somewhat 'primitive.' If you can't get in, no big loss. BUT for sure, plan to have dinner there (great steak house), and the bar is a trip to road racing's past (also big for 'bow hunters'). The Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team has been racing the GLEN for nearly twenty years, and we have always stayed at the Marshall Manor Best Western in Horseheads, New York. Originally recommended by John Harkness, we are already booked for next year. About 25 minutes from the track, but we like it. There is a restaurant adjacent called the Hickory House. Looks like no more than an expanded tavern, but the wife is Chinese and the husband is Italian. Their menu features both cultures. Great food at tavern prices. The Crab Rangoo rivals anything you'll get in San Francisco. I agree one should be thinking about booking early, but in fact there are plenty of hotels in the area. Most are 20-30 minutes from the track. Prices will reflect the importance of that Zippo vintage week end. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From kaskas at cox.net Wed Sep 19 07:58:20 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 06:58:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 References: Message-ID: <003b01c7fac5$230a3000$5717c548@RW> I've stayed in the Best Western in Horseheads and it was just fine. There is a little known back road to get around all the traffic coming to the track. I've stayed in Corning several times, easy traffic and nice places to eat etc. I stayed a the Seneca lodge several times and thought the rooms were like sleeping in a tent that was set on on the side of a hill but without the natural drainage. ( not me, thank you). The bar and the food is great though..----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 6:41 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 > In a message dated 09/18/2007 10:17:26 PM Central Daylight Time, > westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net writes: > > >> Seneca has the history. My first Glen was in 1965. I didn't have the >> money to stay there (college student and slept in my TR-3) but it is >> where the >> F-1 drives stayed. >> > > Amici... > > While I agree 100%, that any trip to WATKINS GLEN that did not include a > stop > at the Seneca Lodge would be a mistake, I see no chance to making it an > FOT > Headquarters. That because, as Jack says, it is booked nearly 100% on a > year > to year basis. I'll also suggest that while you can't beat the history > involved, its rooms are somewhat 'primitive.' If you can't get in, no big > loss. BUT > for sure, plan to have dinner there (great steak house), and the bar is a > trip to road racing's past (also big for 'bow hunters'). > > The Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team has been racing the GLEN for > nearly > twenty years, and we have always stayed at the Marshall Manor Best Western > in > Horseheads, New York. Originally recommended by John Harkness, we are > already booked for next year. About 25 minutes from the track, but we > like it. > There is a restaurant adjacent called the Hickory House. Looks like no > more than > an expanded tavern, but the wife is Chinese and the husband is Italian. > Their menu features both cultures. Great food at tavern prices. The Crab > Rangoo > rivals anything you'll get in San Francisco. > > I agree one should be thinking about booking early, but in fact there are > plenty of hotels in the area. Most are 20-30 minutes from the track. > Prices > will reflect the importance of that Zippo vintage week end. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 19 08:12:41 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:12:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Watkins_Glen=A0=A0_Host_Hotel=3F=A0=A0_2008?= Message-ID: Tim! Good to hear from you! Yes! This is the 2008 Kastner Cup Event Yes! We should do a release...I suspect that this should come from SVRA. The first 24 hours of responses has been impressive. I think we have at least one Brit coming. Perhaps we should foster the idea of more of them coming, as we did at Mid_Ohio and VIR....... You need to get the Group 44 GT6 ready, anyway. This is a good reason. Joe (A) > Okay, I guessed I have missed something, Am I to assume from this > communication that the official FOT meet is at SVRA Watkins Glen in Sept? If so, can > someone send me an official release to publish? > > To keep up with the Jones and the Warners does this mean I need to get the > 69 Championship Group 44 GT6 done by then? > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 19 13:01:36 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:01:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] [Vintage-race] Steve Prewitt passes Message-ID: > Thanks for forwarding to the list. What car(s) did Steve race? > > Bill Carroll > I remember him racing a Corvette....very well and very fast. Joe Alexander From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 19 13:13:25 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:13:25 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen 2008 THE KASTNER CUP progress report Message-ID: Just a little summary: Of course, the Triumphs will have their own stand alone race as we have in the past. There will be a concession on the entry fee for the Triumphs, with a stipulation of early entry. So there: The track time will be up and the cost will be down. I have had one offer of a sponsorship, and there are likely other folks out there that may want to participate. Those monies are solely for our use......! I need to examine the opportunities further so that 'sponsors' get exposure in press releases, track programs, driver packets, etc. I could use some help. More details will be be forthcoming.... Joe Alexander From rikrock at aol.com Wed Sep 19 14:50:44 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:50:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9C915E225278E-B74-341C@webmail-da05.sysops.aol.com> The Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team has been racing the GLEN for nearly twenty years, and we have always stayed at the Marshall Manor Best Western in Horseheads, New York. Originally recommended by John Harkness, we are already booked for next year. About 25 minutes from the track, but we like it. Every time I drive past that place I tell myself I should look into staying there.? Easy and relatively short?drive to the track from Horseheads.? There are other "chains" in that area, too. Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Sep 19 15:21:33 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:21:33 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Map Quest says it's 1891miles from Albuquerque to Watkins Glen. I say "Hey Chuck, are you and that nice, big, trailer of yours going to be passing thru my neck of the woods?" On the other hand, IF I have my 2 car hauler roadworthy by then, [good incentive] is there anyone else from the SW that might want to share expenses to get their car there? Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 # 314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 17, 2007, at 5:02 PM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT List: > > I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > > He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part > of their > major event in September of next year. > > Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen > and > Running of the Original Street Course. > > Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT > and our > Grand Marshall. > > The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary > Pace Car > for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > > We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks > to Jack > Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > > It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an > indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > > Regards, > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > lunkercars at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From ejmajor250 at comcast.net Wed Sep 19 15:49:41 2007 From: ejmajor250 at comcast.net (Ed Major) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:49:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 References: Message-ID: <005801c7fb06$fbfa5110$6601a8c0@LoriMajor> The Montour Falls Motel is the other one, but people book that 100% from year to year (grandfather rule!) just like the Lodge. Ed Major '58 TR3, '68 TR250 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 > In a message dated 9/18/2007 7:47:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > BillB at bnj.com writes: > > There's only two great choices--the Seneca Lodge and the hotel that Ed > and > Bruce stay at--chime in here guys. > > I bet if we committed early we could get most of the Seneca Lodge. Great > bar. > > > Yeah, the week after holloween! > > The Seneca is booked by most folks on a yearly basis. You might get a room > or two if someone cancels at the last minute. It won't hurt to check > however. > They could build a new wing. > > Contact the CofC soon and you might find another place in town. > > There will be places, but you MUST book soon. > > Jack Woehrle > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > ejmajor250 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Sep 19 17:43:42 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:43:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: Allen Washatko > Date: September 19, 2007 6:43:01 PM CDT > To: N197TR4 at cs.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > > Joe, > > Watkins Glenn has been on my goal list for a long time. Count me in. > I'll just need to figure out a way to get the car there. > > Allen > > On Sep 17, 2007, at 6:02 PM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > >> FoT List: >> >> I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. >> >> He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of >> their >> major event in September of next year. >> >> Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen >> and >> Running of the Original Street Course. >> >> Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT >> and our >> Grand Marshall. >> >> The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary >> Pace Car >> for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) >> >> We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks >> to Jack >> Woerhle and Carl Jensen. >> >> It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an >> indication of the strength of our presence at this event. >> >> Regards, >> >> Joe >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> awashatko at wi.rr.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From trmarty at hotmail.com Wed Sep 19 19:12:01 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:12:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Competition brake pads for spitfire Message-ID: Ok you spitfire guru's out there. what do you folks recommend for pad and shoe compounds for a mid pack level prepared Spitfire road race car? I like the Hawk HP+ for autoxing my TR6 but don't know if they would be the best choice for a Spitfire road racer. Thanks, Marty Sukey _________________________________________________________________ Capture your memories in an online journal! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From jaboruch at netzero.net Wed Sep 19 20:02:28 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 02:02:28 GMT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: <20070919.220228.19481.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> When at the Glen I have usually stayed at the Hilton Garden Inn in Horseheads, near the mall, or the Hampton Inn in Corning. There are back roads to the track, so these are also about 20-25 minutes from the track. Joe(B) -- rikrock at aol.com wrote: The Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team has been racing the GLEN for nearly twenty years, and we have always stayed at the Marshall Manor Best Western in Horseheads, New York. Originally recommended by John Harkness, we are already booked for next year. About 25 minutes from the track, but we like it. Every time I drive past that place I tell myself I should look into staying there.? Easy and relatively short?drive to the track from Horseheads.? There are other "chains" in that area, too. Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click here to find singles for dating, romance and fun. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijm1iNXfbWNkB4jqJ2WAIryscXx Qdv5OYhfeaUAICoDfXEgxt/ From greenman62 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 19 10:40:03 2007 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:40:03 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Steve Prewitt passes Message-ID: I just received this obit from Pam at Victory Lane... Steven R. Prewitt Obituary Steve Prewitt moved to San Diego in 1998 after spending two years deciding on the best place to live. The choice was made from the heart. He loved the town, the weather, but most of all, the people. One of San Diegos unique attributes is that it instills in people a vacation mentality that supports overall happiness. Moving here at age 55 it might have been difficult to make new friends, but not in San Diego! He would tell you that the richness of his new friendships were the biggest blessing of the move. Steve was born on December 1, 1943 in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. His parents Robert and Evelyn moved to Des Moines where he attended Roosevelt High School. He attended Simpson College for two years, and then graduated in Business Administration from the University of Missouri in Columbia. Until his move to San Diego, Steve was owner and CEO of The Prewitt Company, a food sales and marketing company with the home office in Des Moines and satellite offices in Omaha and the Quad Cities. In Des Moines he also served on the board of directors for First Interstate Bank, the Riverfront YMCA, and Planned Parenthood. In San Diego, he served on the board of the San Diego Air and Space Museum. Steve knew any prior accomplishments were dwarfed by comparison when in 2007 his skull base disease gave him the rare opportunity to help give birth to an entity that will help millions of people into the future. With Steve as the founding president, four other highly skilled people came together to form the Steven Prewitt Skull Base Disease Foundation. Recognizing the dramatic need for an interdisciplinary information repository to advance the education, treatment and cure of skull base diseases, these five professional people committed to make this foundation their highest priority. It was with this passion and sustaining commitment that the foundation evolved and will continue to serve as the best one stop shopping for patients and physicians alike. You are encouraged to visit the foundations website at www.spsbdf.org. His passions fell into three categories. First, were his true friends. He drew no distinction between a blood relative and these special friends. He loved them equally. Of all his life assets, these friends were the most important. He gave thanks everyday that these special people were put in his lifes path. Each contributed greatly to the person he became. Second, until he began to experience health issues in 2004, athleticism was important his entire life for two reasons: 1). Stay in excellent condition. 2). Meet new friends through multiple sports at various gyms through the years. His health began to decline when he failed to realize the importance of the body/mind connection. If you are reading this, he would want you to learn the lesson of de-stressing your life. Regular workouts with a reasonable diet are truly only half the battle. Please understand that stress alone can kill you and only too late did he learn the inner serenity of giving your worries up to a higher power. In 2004 as he battled his first episode of Stage 4 cancer, he learned that lesson through the joy of finding the Pacific Beach United Methodist Church. Third was his passion for driving, collecting, or racing cars. He did all three with great enthusiasm. Yet, consistent with category #1, he would tell you that although we love our cars, they dont love us back. The true gift of the hobby is the opportunity to meet new, eclectic, and interesting friends. The hobby again spawned many of those friends for which he was deeply grateful. His sister, Patricia Ann Johnson, preceded him in 1969. He has two nieces from his sister, Holly Johnson from Denver and Cynthia Fischer from Hamilton, MT. As a father, his daughter Kelsey Prewitt from San Diego has always been the love of his life. His sweetheart, love, and constant companion over the last six-years was Bobbi Bennett. The family plans a private memorial service including cremation with scattering of ashes. In lieu of flowers, Steve asks two things: 1). Donate generously to the charity of your choice. 2). Take your best friends to lunch regularly and tell them that you love them. If they are out of town, call regularly and do the same thing. Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From sgroh1 at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 07:56:50 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (sgroh1 at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:56:50 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Competition brake pads for spitfire Message-ID: <092020071356.16429.46F27C22000368F20000402D2200735446CE08019D099C@comcast.net> I have Metalmaster pads on my SVRA E/P 1275 Spit, which are proving to be quite consistent, and long-lasting. However at the Glen last weekend, I talked to another Spit owner who highly endorses Hawk Blue pads, so I am going to get a set for next year and do a comparison. Steve Groh -------------- Original message -------------- From: marty sukey > Ok you spitfire guru's out there. what do you folks recommend for pad and shoe > compounds for a mid pack level prepared Spitfire road race car? I like the > Hawk HP+ for autoxing my TR6 but don't know if they would be the best choice > for a Spitfire road racer. > > Thanks, > Marty Sukey > > _________________________________________________________________ > Capture your memories in an online journal! > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 18 20:36:18 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 22:36:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60DB10D4-715C-4EB1-AE5D-31DDED3CB22D@bnj.com> Corning isn't all that close. There's a lot going on downtown during the vintage festival. Maybe I will bring the Airstream just to have a place to stay. I'll need to start working on Diane for this one. Targa Newfoundland has always appealed to me too. Especially since the Babcock since of the family is all from some dinky town in Newfoundland where everyone looks like me. Scary. From what I hear the gene poll is about a quarter inch deep. Bill Babcock billb at bnj.com bnj Website for Babcock & Jenkins, a direct and interactive agency You can subscribe to my Blogs Via email: All Aluminum Tour: Touring and racing classic North American tracks. http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=168395 Ponohouse : Living and playing in Maui. http://www.feedblitz.com/f/? Sub=168304 or Via RSS Ponohouse: http://feeds.feedburner.com/PonoHouse AllAluminumTour: http://feeds.feedburner.com/AllAluminumTour On Sep 18, 2007, at 9:24 PM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > Understanding what Jack has to say,I am looking outside of Watkins > Glen for convenience and price. > > But if someone has a better inside track, go for it. > > I have stayed in or near Corning a few times with fair convenience > and under $100. > > Joe A > > >> Yeah, the week after holloween! >> >> The Seneca is booked by most folks on a yearly basis. You might >> get a room or two if someone cancels at the last minute. It won't >> hurt to check however. They could build a new wing. >> >> Contact the CofC soon and you might find another place in town. >> >> There will be places, but you MUST book soon. >> >> Jack Woehrle From vinnyde at verizon.net Thu Sep 20 10:08:46 2007 From: vinnyde at verizon.net (Vincent De Palma) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:08:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Competition brake pads for spitfire Message-ID: <002401c7fba0$86f34ee0$2f01a8c0@userv8vydxzaql> I ran the Blue Hawk pads for several seasons and loved them. They just seem to stop quicker. My Spitfire was a mid-packer as well, but that's more the driver than the car. I was seeing some rotor wear on aftermarket rotors (Victoria British) but when I replaced them with some used Standard rotors the wear seemed to lessen quite a bit. Paul Smock says the Brits had superior iron!?? From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 20 10:13:08 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:13:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] official dates for SVRA'S WATKINS GLEN -SEPT 4-7 2008 Message-ID: Well, it is now official. Carl Jensen has spoken. The Watkins Glen Zippo Grand Prix featuring the FOT and the Kastner Cup September 4 through 7 of 2008 Thanks for asking. I would have guessed wrong. I have 28 Triumphs on the preliminary list and getting ready to invite the Brits. Joe (A) From billsohl at optonline.net Thu Sep 20 10:37:27 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:37:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - where to stay? - 2008 In-Reply-To: <091920070317.16871.46F094AC000B5FE7000041E72160375964990E04D2069D@att.net> References: <091920070317.16871.46F094AC000B5FE7000041E72160375964990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: <499BAEA8A870467BA3A0CD43E2DFC5EF@SohlPC> Here's another option for some folks... We have a travel trailer and have stayed each year at the KOA campgrounds which is only 3 miles from the track. I know other vintage racers have also stayed there. Cheers, Looking forward to a great event. Willing to help if needed in any planning, etc. Bill Sohl From BillB at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 11:02:42 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:02:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - where to stay? - 2008 In-Reply-To: <499BAEA8A870467BA3A0CD43E2DFC5EF@SohlPC> References: <091920070317.16871.46F094AC000B5FE7000041E72160375964990E04D2069D@att.net> <499BAEA8A870467BA3A0CD43E2DFC5EF@SohlPC> Message-ID: <6E9F7DDB-0952-4EA1-B61D-EF24CC054CB5@bnj.com> Of course there is also camping at the track, both some water/ electricity only sites at the far end of the paddock, some reserved camping-only sites (no race support RV's allowed) in the paddock, and a lot of reserved and unreserved camping everywhere outside the paddock and infield. It would be fairly easy to set up two Triumph ghettos -- one in the camping areas for those not using an RV for race car support and one in the paddock where Randy, Henry Frye, Steve Groh and I paddocked this year. Lots of fun after the official festivities. We were a bit more subdued this year both because of fairly frantic work on the cars, and also by the rain, but joint cookouts, movie nights, and convivial consumption of adult beverages sound like a necessity for such an august gathering. My paddock arrangements will be driven by how I get Peyote to the race. But I can always bring a tent if I don't bring Nero. On Sep 20, 2007, at 12:37 PM, Bill Sohl wrote: > Here's another option for some folks... > > We have a travel trailer and have stayed each year at the > KOA campgrounds which is only 3 miles from the track. > > I know other vintage racers have also stayed there. > > Cheers, > Looking forward to a great event. Willing to help if needed in any > planning, etc. > > Bill Sohl From Labs0808 at aol.com Thu Sep 20 12:04:01 2007 From: Labs0808 at aol.com (Labs0808 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:04:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Re watkins Glen Message-ID: I understand that arrangements can be made for trailers to be brought to the track by a local vender. These would be fifth wheel type full blown camping trailers, they would be less expensive and far safer then driving back into Corning each night ( lots of deer ) and of course if by chance beverages were consumed far safer. If anybody is interested I can do some homework for the group. I have stayed at the lodge for the past three years and can assure you are not missing anything from a lodging standpoint. The only thing that was lacking at the track was shower facilities and those were added a couple years ago for 75 cents a time. We will be there and try to bring the Ambro unless of course it finds a new home before then. Doug ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 20 12:46:58 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Re watkins Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <418824.74870.qm@web57602.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Doug: I like the idea. I for one would give up the chance to stock the freezer with deer meat for not driving an hour each day. E. Labs0808 at aol.com wrote: I understand that arrangements can be made for trailers to be brought to the track by a local vender. These would be fifth wheel type full blown camping trailers, they would be less expensive and far safer then driving back into Corning each night ( lots of deer ) and of course if by chance beverages were consumed far safer. If anybody is interested I can do some homework for the group. I have stayed at the lodge for the past three years and can assure you are not missing anything from a lodging standpoint. The only thing that was lacking at the track was shower facilities and those were added a couple years ago for 75 cents a time. We will be there and try to bring the Ambro unless of course it finds a new home before then. Doug ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! From tsheach at pba.co.uk Thu Sep 20 13:37:28 2007 From: tsheach at pba.co.uk (tr4.tony@virgin.net) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:37:28 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Re watkins Glen Message-ID: Doug I'm busy looking for a passout for the week to make the quick hope from sunny Scotland by the sea. A big trailer on site by FoT land would be good for me if its not going to kill me next time I owe the tyre guy money. Its unlikely that ill bring bst82B to compete but may bring willing crew to split the cost .... Spanners ready. Can you let me know what can be done ? I'm hoping that Joe A or Kas will sponsor me through your security ..... You're Plods don't like the kilt and the Connery aaccent only works on girls ... Regards Tony -----Original Message----- From: Labs0808 at aol.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: 20/09/07 19:04 Subject: [Fot] Re watkins Glen I understand that arrangements can be made for trailers to be brought to the track by a local vender. These would be fifth wheel type full blown camping trailers, they would be less expensive and far safer then driving back into Corning each night ( lots of deer ) and of course if by chance beverages were consumed far safer. If anybody is interested I can do some homework for the group. I have stayed at the lodge for the past three years and can assure you are not missing anything from a lodging standpoint. The only thing that was lacking at the track was shower facilities and those were added a couple years ago for 75 cents a time. We will be there and try to bring the Ambro unless of course it finds a new home before then. Doug ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com tr4.tony at virgin.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 14:02:58 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:02:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Re watkins Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As a regular user of the track showers at the Glen, I think that's something we shouldn't be telling a lot of people. They are currently uncrowded and you can get a nice hot shower, but there's only FOUR for the entire track. They have coin boxes, but the boxes don't seem to work--I discovered you can shower for free. Now I can afford that operation. Hey, Doug, how can I get a copy of your video of the race, including the shunt. It would make a fine addition to my blog and Peyote's history. If you want to mail a DVD my address is 4888 NW Bethany PMB 377 Portland, OR 97229 Or we could go all high tech and you could upload it to my web server, but that might take a bit of coordination. I'd like whatever native resolution you have. Bill On Sep 20, 2007, at 2:04 PM, Labs0808 at aol.com wrote: > I understand that arrangements can be made for trailers to be > brought to the > track by a local vender. > These would be fifth wheel type full blown camping trailers, they > would be > less expensive and far safer then driving back into Corning each > night ( lots > of deer ) and of course if by chance beverages were consumed far > safer. > If anybody is interested I can do some homework for the group. > I have stayed at the lodge for the past three years and can assure > you are > not missing anything from a lodging standpoint. The only thing > that was > lacking at the track was shower facilities and those were added a > couple years ago > for 75 cents a time. > We will be there and try to bring the Ambro unless of course it > finds a > new home before then. > Doug > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http:// > www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triumphs at consolidated.net Thu Sep 20 16:50:27 2007 From: triumphs at consolidated.net (Ken Gano, home) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:50:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] test Message-ID: Sorry for the wasted bandwidth. kg From vintage.racer at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 16:52:38 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:52:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? Message-ID: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware of the current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below will take you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. Gary 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" 69 TR6 http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no92. html From tlizzard at msn.com Thu Sep 20 17:07:49 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:07:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: It's all about the money. That said I still very much enjoy F1. It is an astonishing technical exercise. Very much like building high performance military aircraft. Amazing what the human mind can come up with when given a really restrictive set of parameters, and enough cash... It may be boring to many Americans to watch an F1 race, but not to me. 18,000+rpm is music to my ears. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:52 PM Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? Hello: If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware of the current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below will take you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. Gary 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" 69 TR6 http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no9 2. html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 20 17:20:56 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:20:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: <20070920232509.RDQD21920.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> I liked how rose-tinted his glasses appear to be. Talking about "His squeeze job on teammate Lewis Hamilton exiting the first turn at Spa last weekend clearly demonstrated his ill-will toward Hamilton as well as a lack of any on-track ethics." like it was some new phenomenon while completely ignoring history like Senna crashing into Prost when both were at McLaren to ensure that Senna took the Championship. Seems to me McLaren brings this type of problem on themselves by NOT having a driver running as its designated #1. As to the $100 mil fine. Again McLaren brought it on themselves. If they have been honest about the issue in June they would certainly have been fined and seen some points taken away. But as in most things it is not the initial crime that carried the real penalty but the cover up. Ron and Company made the FIA look like fools for not hitting them with any sanction after the first go round. When the additional info came out that even the drivers were discussing the stolen material in emails the FIA seems to have decided to slap McLaren hard enough that it got their attention. Bernie is right in that the $100 mil fine was good publicity for F1. I have friends that were astounded by the dollar number and these are people that have barely heard of F1 but know that I watch the races (I even subscribe to F1 Magazine) and they were asking me all kinds of questions this past week. At 03:52 PM 9/20/2007, you wrote: >Hello: > >If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware of the >current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below will take >you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. > >Gary >62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" >69 TR6 > >http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no92. >html >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >dave at microworks.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 20 17:26:40 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:26:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: <000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> I guess that everyone is entitled to his opinion. Personally, I am pleased with the penalties that were levied. The only thing that I didn't particularly like was that the drivers points were unaffected. What I heard is that the drivers were guaranteed to keep their points in order to get them to cooperate with the investigation. But I wonder how this episode has left Alonzo in the eyes of McLaren. My guess is that he will be wearing different livery next year. I guess it all could be compared with employment in industries that have trade secret information at stake. Employees typically sign non-disclosure agreements and their contracts are always laced with clauses stipulating that they are prohibited from working for any competitor for at least a couple of years after leaving their current employer. Surely, these teams have similar commitments involved in their hiring practices. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:53 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? Hello: If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware of the current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below will take you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. Gary 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" 69 TR6 http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no92 . html spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 20 17:41:18 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:41:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - where to stay? - 2008 Message-ID: The KOA also has Kamping Kabins...I did that once and liked it, OK. Joe (A) > Here's another option for some folks... > > We have a travel trailer and have stayed each year at the > KOA campgrounds which is only 3 miles from the track. > > I know other vintage racers have also stayed there. > > Cheers, > Looking forward to a great event. Willing to help if needed in any > planning, etc. > > Bill Sohl > _______________________________________________ > From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 20 17:50:12 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:50:12 EDT Subject: [Fot] TRIUMPHEST Message-ID: FoT, Anyone going to the Triumphest in Laughlin in October? A couple of us are going to be there and then going to VARA Race in Las Vegas. Joe (A) From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 20 17:53:26 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:53:26 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TRIUMPHEST In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000501c7fbe1$7035dce0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> There will be a couple of us there! Joe C -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:50 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TRIUMPHEST FoT, Anyone going to the Triumphest in Laughlin in October? A couple of us are going to be there and then going to VARA Race in Las Vegas. Joe (A) spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 20 17:48:00 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:48:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> <000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20070920235816.NJUU5014.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> >But I wonder how this episode has left Alonzo in the eyes of McLaren. My >guess is that he will be wearing different livery next year. It appears that it may have been Alonso that let slip the info about the emails. According to Ron Dennis he and Alonso are not even speaking http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40753 "Ron Dennis confirmed in last Thursday's FIA World Motor Sport Council hearing that he is not on speaking terms with his world champion driver Fernando Alonso..." From kaskas at cox.net Thu Sep 20 18:14:10 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:14:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> <20070920232509.RDQD21920.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: <008b01c7fbe4$5536f9d0$5717c548@RW> Yes, the squeeze was pretty evident to everyone, but no different that many of "Shumies" tactics in the past. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? >I liked how rose-tinted his glasses appear to be. > > Talking about "His squeeze job on teammate Lewis Hamilton exiting the > first turn at Spa last weekend clearly demonstrated his ill-will > toward Hamilton as well as a lack of any on-track ethics." like it > was some new phenomenon while completely ignoring history like Senna > crashing into Prost when both were at McLaren to ensure that Senna > took the Championship. Seems to me McLaren brings this type of > problem on themselves by NOT having a driver running as its designated #1. > > As to the $100 mil fine. Again McLaren brought it on themselves. If > they have been honest about the issue in June they would certainly > have been fined and seen some points taken away. But as in most > things it is not the initial crime that carried the real penalty but > the cover up. Ron and Company made the FIA look like fools for not > hitting them with any sanction after the first go round. When the > additional info came out that even the drivers were discussing the > stolen material in emails the FIA seems to have decided to slap > McLaren hard enough that it got their attention. > > Bernie is right in that the $100 mil fine was good publicity for F1. > I have friends that were astounded by the dollar number and these are > people that have barely heard of F1 but know that I watch the races > (I even subscribe to F1 Magazine) and they were asking me all kinds > of questions this past week. > > At 03:52 PM 9/20/2007, you wrote: >>Hello: >> >>If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware of >>the >>current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below will >>take >>you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. >> >>Gary >>62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" >>69 TR6 >> >>http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no92. >>html >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billsohl at optonline.net Thu Sep 20 19:47:45 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:47:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - where to stay? - 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EBF573805A84FDE983309E5BD4C5B9F@SohlPC> The KOA has both cabins and cottages...but most are already booked just like the many local area hotels and motels. ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: billsohl at optonline.net ; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net ; BillB at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen - where to stay? - 2008 The KOA also has Kamping Kabins...I did that once and liked it, OK. Joe (A) Here's another option for some folks... We have a travel trailer and have stayed each year at the KOA campgrounds which is only 3 miles from the track. I know other vintage racers have also stayed there. Cheers, Looking forward to a great event. Willing to help if needed in any planning, etc. Bill Sohl _______________________________________________ From stutzmans at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 19:58:21 2007 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:58:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 References: <60DB10D4-715C-4EB1-AE5D-31DDED3CB22D@bnj.com> Message-ID: <006401c7fbf2$e3a09d80$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> Pull out your N.Y. maps, guys. Painted Post, Corning and Horseheads are on I-86 between 15 & 20 miles from the track. They all have brand name hotels. Ithaca, where Russ lives, also has brand name hotels but a bit further away. There are 2 colleges there. Not likely that you'll find anything closer. We WPTA guys have been grandfathered at The Falls Motel in Montour Falls for years, almost walking distance. We have tried to get another room, unsuccessfully. Sunday night at the Seneca Lodge is great. Most people are gone, you can actually stand at the bar for a drink and get a dinner table when you want it. Don't do Watkins Glen without going to the Seneca Lodge. That is where a "schnockered" Buddy Palumbo peed in Julie's open suitcase. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 > Corning isn't all that close. There's a lot going on downtown during > the vintage festival. Maybe I will bring the Airstream just to have a > place to stay. I'll need to start working on Diane for this one. > Targa Newfoundland has always appealed to me too. Especially since > the Babcock since of the family is all from some dinky town in > Newfoundland where everyone looks like me. Scary. From what I hear > the gene poll is about a quarter inch deep. > Bill Babcock > billb at bnj.com > bnj Website for Babcock & Jenkins, a direct and interactive agency > > You can subscribe to my Blogs > Via email: > All Aluminum Tour: Touring and racing classic North American tracks. > http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=168395 > Ponohouse : Living and playing in Maui. http://www.feedblitz.com/f/? > Sub=168304 > > or Via RSS > Ponohouse: http://feeds.feedburner.com/PonoHouse > AllAluminumTour: http://feeds.feedburner.com/AllAluminumTour > > > > On Sep 18, 2007, at 9:24 PM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > >> Understanding what Jack has to say,I am looking outside of Watkins >> Glen for convenience and price. >> >> But if someone has a better inside track, go for it. >> >> I have stayed in or near Corning a few times with fair convenience >> and under $100. >> >> Joe A >> >> >>> Yeah, the week after holloween! >>> >>> The Seneca is booked by most folks on a yearly basis. You might >>> get a room or two if someone cancels at the last minute. It won't >>> hurt to check however. They could build a new wing. >>> >>> Contact the CofC soon and you might find another place in town. >>> >>> There will be places, but you MUST book soon. >>> >>> Jack Woehrle > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > stutzmans at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From igofaster at charter.net Thu Sep 20 20:00:14 2007 From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:00:14 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ Message-ID: <20070920220014.W0MWD.21261.root@fepweb10> Hello! I'm new to the forum, invited by Bob Kramer. I'm a longtime Triumph friend. I purchased this year the GT6 built by Bob Davis in central Florida. Way nice race preparred GT6, Bob Kramer can attest. My dilema is Mr. Davis did a heck of a job with the Toyota T5 gearbox conversion on the GT6. Recently with CVAR in Texas I enrolled in the driving school at TWS with the GT6. CVAR will allow me to continue for a short time to participate on a no points basis but I must return the Triumph to an appropriate gearbox. I'm open to suggestions. I've always felt the gearbox in the GT6's were soft at best. I had a TR6 gearbox I attempted to install at one time but looked like the frame would have to be cut and modified. I have a nice 1969 with an overdrive transmission, not sure if that is the answer. I only used 5th gear at TWS on the staightaway past the finish line and in the cooldown lap. The diff is the 3.73 (I think) locked. looking foward to the input... kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead 1970 GT6+ #33 From billsohl at optonline.net Thu Sep 20 20:18:46 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:18:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It would be great too if Charles (TRF) was able to bring along the '68 TR-250 "One Lap" car that was run in the 86, 87 and 88 one lap events. Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: ; Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:02 PM Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > FoT List: > > I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > > He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of > their > major event in September of next year. > > Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and > Running of the Original Street Course. > > Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and > our > Grand Marshall. > > The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace > Car > for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > > We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to > Jack > Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > > It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an > indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > > Regards, > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billsohl at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Thu Sep 20 20:23:51 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:23:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ Message-ID: We run a Triumph trans in our TR3 when we are allowed to run a Toyota trans. The irony of it all. I like the overdrive, but most racers don't. I have the Group 44 GT6 that I am trying to restore and would very much like to purchase your GT6 trans should you go a different route. Welcome to the list and you'll find a great group here. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From S.Janzen at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 20:35:47 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:35:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ References: <20070920220014.W0MWD.21261.root@fepweb10> Message-ID: <004501c7fbf8$1e223d10$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> This just came up on the Spit and GT6 forum http://members.boardhost.com/GT6-Spitfire/ after my car ate its gearbox - teeth stripped off the input gear shaft. Steve Smith has been running a TR6 trans for years. The GT6 box is apparently a weak point particularly in racing and/or with enhanced HP. Look for the dialogue on that site from about two weeks ago. I haven't converted yet, but I think that's the winter project. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:00 PM Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ > Hello! I'm new to the forum, invited by Bob Kramer. I'm a longtime Triumph > friend. I purchased this year the GT6 built by Bob Davis in central > Florida. Way nice race preparred GT6, Bob Kramer can attest. My dilema is > Mr. Davis did a heck of a job with the Toyota T5 gearbox conversion on the > GT6. Recently with CVAR in Texas I enrolled in the driving school at TWS > with the GT6. CVAR will allow me to continue for a short time to > participate on a no points basis but I must return the Triumph to an > appropriate gearbox. I'm open to suggestions. I've always felt the gearbox > in the GT6's were soft at best. I had a TR6 gearbox I attempted to install > at one time but looked like the frame would have to be cut and modified. I > have a nice 1969 with an overdrive transmission, not sure if that is the > answer. I only used 5th gear at TWS on the staightaway past the finish > line and in the cooldown lap. The diff is the 3.73 (I think) locked. > looking foward to the input... > kindest regards, > Bobby Whitehead > 1970 GT6+ #33 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Thu Sep 20 20:48:12 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:48:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Charles Illgen is BACK ON THE TRACK Thanks BOB THE CAR WON'T TURN COX Message-ID: Hi Gang..This is not all about Triumphs..but I bet that a bunch of you recognize the name as one heck of an SCCA Stanchion..The following is an email I sent to My Newsgroup Thanks for listening Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: RACER BUD To: DEREK MORGANMAN WILLBURN ; JIM SIX GUN HEARN ; ARTIE MOLDY CORDISCO ; BILL BURNOUT BOSTIC ; BILL PEYOTE SPECIAL BABCOCK ; BILL TECHNO ROOT ; BILL THE REVERAND MABRY ; BOB 356ER HEIMAN ; BOB FASPEC BREY ; BOB HACKSAW FRANK ; BOB JUST NORTH OF TOWN GUSFTASON ; BOB THE CAR WON'T TURN COX ; BRIAN 10.5 TENTHS FORSTER ; BRUCE SIDEWAYS LINCOLN JOHN ; BRUCE WHOSE BEANS ARE THOSE? ROSS ; CARL THE GRINDER STIRTZ ; CHARLES UPSIDE DOWN BMW ILLGEN ; CHARLIE LOST IN VEGAS HOOPAUGH ; CHUCK BIMSPINNER REYNOLDS ; COLLENA CUSHIONS MCHUGH ; DAN THE BOSS RADOWICZ ; DARCY I GOT MY MINI! PORTER ; DAVE POSTMASTER BOYD ; DEAN GEARHEAD COURT ; DEAN STEELHEAD BEAUPRE ; DENNIS THE COASTER ORTENBURGER ; DICK RISKY RYAN ; DOUG ROCKET MAN MUNSON ; ERIK I MAY NEED A WHEEL SAKUMA ; GARY MIRROR FILLER ANDERSON ; GARY TR HORSTKORTA ; HARDY CATPUSHER PRENTICE ; JACK 914-6 KUHN ; JANE RALLY GIRL BARKER ; JAY GODZILLA PATROL LAMM ; JEFF OUT TO LUNCH PRICE ; JERRY I THINK I'M JUST GONNA SELL THIS THING BURR ; JIM PENCILMAN WEISSENBORN ; JOE I DONT WANT TO JUST PLAY GOLF ANYMORE RILEY ; JOHN 0 OIL PRESSURE OTIS PETTIS ; JOHN CARZY RICE ; JOHN GO FOR IT LEWIS ; JOHN RIVERSIDE CONDREN ; JOHN SCABBARD BLAKEMORE ; JOHN T BIRD MILLER ; JOHN U BOAT BURTON ; JOHNNY NO PROBLEM NOLIND ; JULIA IOWA BLAIR ; KEN HOOKSETTER KIRK ; KEN NO FAULT BALL ; KEN STOMP BUCKET ARMANN ; KEVIN BACK AT IT SLOVER ; LARRY THE VOICE ALBEDI ; LEE SPUN OUT IN IDAHO HOGE ; LES WILL MY VETTE STOP? ALEXANDER ; MARK DEVIN BALESTRA ; MARTY 2 3/4 ALFAS HOROWITZ ; MARV NO FEAR STEELE ; MICHAEL AT SPEED PLITKINS ; MICHAEL I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR DOORS McDERMOTT ; MIKE FANG QUERIO ; MIKE KEEPER OF THE LOTI OSTROV ; MIKE LET'S DO THIS AGAIN TOMORROW MANNING ; MIKE SHIFTY JOHN ; PAUL THE VIKING PERRY ; PAUL TURBO RESNICK ; PETER I'M BUILDING SOMETHING KUNEDT ; RALPH CAMARO BANKMAN ; RAY BONNEVILLE HOWE ; RINDY RACER ; ROB I KNOW I CAN LAND THIS THING, JUST GIVE ME FULL THROTTLE SQUIRE ; ROBERTA ART BIRD ALEXANDER ; ROD 57 THROUGH THE TREES LEAVITT ; RON CROSSTHREAD CHISHOLM ; RON THROTTLEJOCKEY BOLLES ; RUSS VETTSTER UZES ; SCOTT HELICOPTER TROUTMAN ; SCOTT NOT AS SORE AS USUAL BERGEN ; SCOTT PILEDRIVER BROWN ; SKIP THE DRIP THOMPSON ; STEVE CAR SAVER BRISCOE ; STU ELVMASTER HOCKMAN ; TERRY AND CINDY I SHOULD HAVE STOPPED THIS STUFF O'BEIRNE ; TERRY TAPE DISTRIBUTOR GRIMM ; THOM BOY RACER IN FLORIDA COLLINS ; TIM 1988 IN TEXAS ARNETT ; TIM ROUNDY ROUNDS CRITCHELL ; TOM MAD DOG DUNCAN ; TOM MIATAMANIAC ANDERSON ; TOM TOSCANNELI DELAUER ; TRACY BIG HEALEY DRUMMOND ; TYLER TIME FOR A PORSCHE HUNT ; WARREN ROCKY PIERCE Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:37 PM Subject: Charles Illgen is BACK ON THE TRACK Thanks BOB THE CAR WON'T TURN COX Hi Gang..It's a long story for those of you who don't know CHARLES UPSIDE DOWN BMW ILLGEN..so..I'll cut to The chase...The SCCA Annual Enduro is named after Charles' Dad...Marty Illgen......Charles raced in the early 1980s, ..His Goal/Dream has been to race in .. "MY DAD'S RACE'...The S. Fran Region..SCCA Enduro.....Now...thanks to BOB THE CAR WON'T TURN COX...Charles has a Race Car...Bob has loaned the car to Chas..100% free..no charge whatsoever. This weekend..9/22-23..Chas will be at Infineon for the NASA school/event..to get 'Back In Tune' for his license... If YOU WILL/CAN BE at the NASA event this coming Weekend... Charles will Greatly appreciate some help in the pits..and would like to pit with someone..Charles is about 60 years of age..and is "Gutsy enough to start Racing Again.. GOOD JOB CHARLES Racver Bud From vintage.racer at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 21:08:51 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:08:51 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR-3A for sale Message-ID: <002a01c7fbfc$bc834b80$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: If anyone is interested, there is a very pristine, stock, 1960 TR-3A , British Racing Green with tan interior for sale here in Northern California. The car had numerous mechancial and some exterior restoration work completed over the last three years, although it was in good shape when purchased from the original owner. It has been driven approximately 1,500 miles per year in that period. I have no interest in this car other than helping a friend offer it for sale to FOT first before offering it to the general public. If anyone would like to contact the owner directly for more information, please email me offline. Gary 62 TR4 69 TR6 From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 22:30:13 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:30:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: <22CDB7D7-79C9-4EF4-B5FF-FA29DC6BF958@bnj.com> It's hardly boring, especially this year. I purposely paid as little attention as I could during the four months of the all aluminum Tour so I could watch it all on Tivo. That and MotoGP. I'm having a pleasnat time between cleaning my shop and disassembling Peyote (it's worse than I thought it was) drinking beer and watching F1 and MotoGP. Best thing about F1 these days is the qualifying. That and the amazing set of drivers in the top five. On Sep 20, 2007, at 7:07 PM, Terry Stetler wrote: > It's all about the money. > > That said I still very much enjoy F1. It is an astonishing technical > exercise. Very much like building high performance military aircraft. > Amazing what the human mind can come up with when given a really > restrictive > set of parameters, and enough cash... > > It may be boring to many Americans to watch an F1 race, but not to me. > 18,000+rpm is music to my ears. > > Terry Stetler > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:52 PM > Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? > > > Hello: > > If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well > aware of > the > current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link > below will > take > you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. > > Gary > 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" > 69 TR6 > > http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/ > the_way_it_is_no9 > 2 the_way_it_is_no9 > 2>. > html > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > tlizzard at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot mailman/li > stinfo/fot> > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 22:33:31 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:33:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> <000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: <9BEAB31B-C79C-4764-AA8E-31AC25D1A5F9@bnj.com> Non competition agreements are extremely hard to enforce anywhere and are rare outside the U.S. On Sep 20, 2007, at 7:26 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > I guess that everyone is entitled to his opinion. Personally, I am > pleased > with the penalties that were levied. The only thing that I didn't > particularly like was that the drivers points were unaffected. > > What I heard is that the drivers were guaranteed to keep their > points in > order to get them to cooperate with the investigation. > > But I wonder how this episode has left Alonzo in the eyes of > McLaren. My > guess is that he will be wearing different livery next year. > > I guess it all could be compared with employment in industries that > have > trade secret information at stake. Employees typically sign non- > disclosure > agreements and their contracts are always laced with clauses > stipulating > that they are prohibited from working for any competitor for at > least a > couple of years after leaving their current employer. > > Surely, these teams have similar commitments involved in their hiring > practices. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:53 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? > > Hello: > > If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well > aware of the > current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below > will > take > you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. > > Gary > 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" > 69 TR6 > > http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/ > the_way_it_is_no92 > . > html > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 22:39:43 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:39:43 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: there's a lot of times that I'd like another gear, I could probably "get away" with a five speed in Peyote, but it just doesn't seem quite right. I know it did have an overdrive for awhile--there was a switch sort of like a turn switch on the dash when I got it from Baxter Culver. I think you're better off running the four speed and getting the right rear end ratio for the tracks you like best. On Sep 20, 2007, at 10:23 PM, GRMTim at aol.com wrote: > We run a Triumph trans in our TR3 when we are allowed to run a > Toyota trans. > The irony of it all. I like the overdrive, but most racers don't. I > have the > Group 44 GT6 that I am trying to restore and would very much like > to purchase > your GT6 trans should you go a different route. Welcome to the list > and you'll > find a great group here. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 22:41:59 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:41:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ In-Reply-To: <004501c7fbf8$1e223d10$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <20070920220014.W0MWD.21261.root@fepweb10> <004501c7fbf8$1e223d10$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: <6AF778A4-5EC6-4AFA-9EBA-C2AE6C5A4DBD@bnj.com> I'm not that familiar with GT6 or Spitfires, but TR3/6 gearboxes are pretty weak too. Generally the layshaft bearing goes south because it's small and not all that well supported. I've heard that there are some fixes for this, including dual bearings on the rear end of the layshaft. Anyone ever hear of this? On Sep 20, 2007, at 10:35 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: > This just came up on the Spit and GT6 forum > http://members.boardhost.com/GT6-Spitfire/ after my car ate its > gearbox - > teeth stripped off the input gear shaft. Steve Smith has been > running a TR6 > trans for years. The GT6 box is apparently a weak point > particularly in > racing and/or with enhanced HP. Look for the dialogue on that site > from > about two weeks ago. > I haven't converted yet, but I think that's the winter project. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:00 PM > Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ > > >> Hello! I'm new to the forum, invited by Bob Kramer. I'm a longtime >> Triumph >> friend. I purchased this year the GT6 built by Bob Davis in central >> Florida. Way nice race preparred GT6, Bob Kramer can attest. My >> dilema is >> Mr. Davis did a heck of a job with the Toyota T5 gearbox >> conversion on the >> GT6. Recently with CVAR in Texas I enrolled in the driving school >> at TWS >> with the GT6. CVAR will allow me to continue for a short time to >> participate on a no points basis but I must return the Triumph to an >> appropriate gearbox. I'm open to suggestions. I've always felt the >> gearbox >> in the GT6's were soft at best. I had a TR6 gearbox I attempted to >> install >> at one time but looked like the frame would have to be cut and >> modified. I >> have a nice 1969 with an overdrive transmission, not sure if that >> is the >> answer. I only used 5th gear at TWS on the staightaway past the >> finish >> line and in the cooldown lap. The diff is the 3.73 (I think) locked. >> looking foward to the input... >> kindest regards, >> Bobby Whitehead >> 1970 GT6+ #33 >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> s.janzen at comcast.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Thu Sep 20 22:45:59 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:45:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> <22CDB7D7-79C9-4EF4-B5FF-FA29DC6BF958@bnj.com> Message-ID: <010701c7fc0a$4e36df80$5717c548@RW> I kind of hate to say it, but maybe now is the time to exercise the Ambro interest. I agree the F-1 qualifying is fantastic. Wish I were in it. It is a crafty, thinking business period, in a not too interesting racing era.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Terry Stetler" Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? > It's hardly boring, especially this year. I purposely paid as little > attention as I could during the four months of the all aluminum Tour > so I could watch it all on Tivo. That and MotoGP. I'm having a > pleasnat time between cleaning my shop and disassembling Peyote (it's > worse than I thought it was) drinking beer and watching F1 and > MotoGP. Best thing about F1 these days is the qualifying. That and > the amazing set of drivers in the top five. > On Sep 20, 2007, at 7:07 PM, Terry Stetler wrote: > >> It's all about the money. >> >> That said I still very much enjoy F1. It is an astonishing technical >> exercise. Very much like building high performance military aircraft. >> Amazing what the human mind can come up with when given a really >> restrictive >> set of parameters, and enough cash... >> >> It may be boring to many Americans to watch an F1 race, but not to me. >> 18,000+rpm is music to my ears. >> >> Terry Stetler >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Gary >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:52 PM >> Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? >> >> >> Hello: >> >> If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well >> aware of >> the >> current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link >> below will >> take >> you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. >> >> Gary >> 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" >> 69 TR6 >> >> http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/ >> the_way_it_is_no9 >> 2> the_way_it_is_no9 >> 2>. >> html >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> tlizzard at msn.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> mailman/li >> stinfo/fot> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> billb at bnj.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Thu Sep 20 22:58:20 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ In-Reply-To: <20070920220014.W0MWD.21261.root@fepweb10> Message-ID: <869572.62233.qm@web53505.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Bobby, Welcome to the list. There is a guy up here in CT by the name of John Esposito, Quantum Mechanics is the name of his business, and he builds-rebuilds GT-6 boxes using TR7 internal parts. From what I understand, all is pretty much the same except the TR7 parts are much "beefier". I can get you his number if you are interested. He has rebuilt my GT-6 box for my racing spit (SCCA) though I did not go with the TR7 bits, as I am going towards a dog-box in the future. Jay R. Creel igofaster at charter.net wrote: Hello! I'm new to the forum, invited by Bob Kramer. I'm a longtime Triumph friend. I purchased this year the GT6 built by Bob Davis in central Florida. Way nice race preparred GT6, Bob Kramer can attest. My dilema is Mr. Davis did a heck of a job with the Toyota T5 gearbox conversion on the GT6. Recently with CVAR in Texas I enrolled in the driving school at TWS with the GT6. CVAR will allow me to continue for a short time to participate on a no points basis but I must return the Triumph to an appropriate gearbox. I'm open to suggestions. I've always felt the gearbox in the GT6's were soft at best. I had a TR6 gearbox I attempted to install at one time but looked like the frame would have to be cut and modified. I have a nice 1969 with an overdrive transmission, not sure if that is the answer. I only used 5th gear at TWS on the staightaway past the finish line and in the cooldown lap. The diff is the 3.73 (I think) locked. looking foward to the input... kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead 1970 GT6+ #33 jaxonracing at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. From tsheach at pba.co.uk Fri Sep 21 04:30:33 2007 From: tsheach at pba.co.uk (tr4.tony@virgin.net) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:30:33 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ Message-ID: Hi folks I now run what is basically a triumph stag kd or ld series a type overdive box in bst82B .... The ct and cp series tr gearboxes were too weak for rally use and I minced a few before I started using the stag. The main differences are the layshaft and bearing ... Essentially the mod for non stag boxes replicate what triumph eventually produced. Looks original and right. Rgds Tony -----Original Message----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Scott Janzen" Cc: fot at autox.team.net; igofaster at charter.net Sent: 21/09/07 05:41 Subject: Re: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ I'm not that familiar with GT6 or Spitfires, but TR3/6 gearboxes are pretty weak too. Generally the layshaft bearing goes south because it's small and not all that well supported. I've heard that there are some fixes for this, including dual bearings on the rear end of the layshaft. Anyone ever hear of this? On Sep 20, 2007, at 10:35 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: > This just came up on the Spit and GT6 forum > http://members.boardhost.com/GT6-Spitfire/ after my car ate its > gearbox - > teeth stripped off the input gear shaft. Steve Smith has been > running a TR6 > trans for years. The GT6 box is apparently a weak point > particularly in > racing and/or with enhanced HP. Look for the dialogue on that site > from > about two weeks ago. > I haven't converted yet, but I think that's the winter project. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:00 PM > Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ > > >> Hello! I'm new to the forum, invited by Bob Kramer. I'm a longtime From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 21 04:28:12 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:28:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] GT6 gearbox Message-ID: <003901c7fc3a$1cc34350$0101a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> If the organization will accept big TR boxes and/or the 5th gear is the hangup with them, then put in the Toyota 4psd. It is a drop in replacement. Or even better yet, pull the gearbox and take the 5th gear out. It was just and add in to the 4 speed gearbox by Toyota anyway. Bob ex- 70 GT6 vintage race owner From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Fri Sep 21 07:16:17 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 08:16:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> I didn't realize until this thread started that some organizations allow other gearboxes if 'functionally equivalent". Same goes for brakes. Here are excerpts from SVRA's rules: "Transmissions: Must be functionally equivalent to the unit provided by the manufacturer. Gear ratios are free with no increase in the number of forward speeds. Reverse must work." The old TR gearbox with overdrive gives six speeds. Converting to Toyota or other would bring that back down to five. Likewise on brakes, (too long to retype) the gist of it is that alternate rotors, drums, and calipers are allowed as long as current dimensions, materials, and pad area are maintained. I really like those regs. Not all North American racing clubs agree. The only "advantage" these regs may give a competitor is in a reduction of maintenance cost and time. Everybody who has tried to keep Triumph transmissions intact for more than a couple of years, or anyone who has tried to make the new stainless brake pistons and new seals actually work, will appreciate what I mean. uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Fri Sep 21 07:40:05 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 08:40:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A9C8DF4@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Bobby is with CVAR and we don't have anything like the SVRA "functionally equivalent" in our rules but he can use a TR6 gearbox. As a side note, BPNW is selling nitrided caliper pistons. No chrome to flake of and they are advertised as rust resistant. I have them in a street TR6. Time will tell. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack W. Drews Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:16 AM To: fot at autox.team.net; Carl Braun; rdwismer at mchsi.com Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality I didn't realize until this thread started that some organizations allow other gearboxes if 'functionally equivalent". Same goes for brakes. Here are excerpts from SVRA's rules: "Transmissions: Must be functionally equivalent to the unit provided by the manufacturer. Gear ratios are free with no increase in the number of forward speeds. Reverse must work." The old TR gearbox with overdrive gives six speeds. Converting to Toyota or other would bring that back down to five. Likewise on brakes, (too long to retype) the gist of it is that alternate rotors, drums, and calipers are allowed as long as current dimensions, materials, and pad area are maintained. I really like those regs. Not all North American racing clubs agree. The only "advantage" these regs may give a competitor is in a reduction of maintenance cost and time. Everybody who has tried to keep Triumph transmissions intact for more than a couple of years, or anyone who has tried to make the new stainless brake pistons and new seals actually work, will appreciate what I mean. uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net rkramer at rdoequipment.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From n197tr4 at cs.com Fri Sep 21 08:02:50 2007 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:02:50 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: <380-22007952114250178@M2W037.mail2web.com> I will ask Charles... Original Message: ----------------- From: Bill Sohl billsohl at optonline.net Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:18:46 -0400 To: N197TR4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net, Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER It would be great too if Charles (TRF) was able to bring along the '68 TR-250 "One Lap" car that was run in the 86, 87 and 88 one lap events. Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: ; Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:02 PM Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > FoT List: > > I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > > He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of > their > major event in September of next year. > > Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and > Running of the Original Street Course. > > Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and > our > Grand Marshall. > > The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace > Car > for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > > We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to > Jack > Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > > It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an > indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > > Regards, > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billsohl at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com  Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft. Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From awashatko at wi.rr.com Fri Sep 21 08:09:31 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:09:31 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Message-ID: Friends, As long as we are on this path what would the group recommend for an upgrade to my TR6 race car transmission? I'm currently running TR7 close ratio gears in the TR6 case with a race prepared "J" type overdrive. Worked well until last weekend when I took all of the teeth off the input shaft and 4th gear. Is the Stag transmission an option? Does someone make straight cut gears for the TR? If you use the Toyota box, is it strong enough and can you get a good set of gear ratio's? Is someone making a kit that doesn't cost an arm and leg (close to $5,000 from Moss)? I'm producing approx. 225HP. Allen Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Fri Sep 21 08:44:51 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:44:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003801c7fc5d$f93a8af0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> Check Herman's conversions: http://www.hvdaconversions.com/ He's a great guy and has engineered these kits himself, from what I gather... Clark From N197TR4 at cs.com Fri Sep 21 09:06:15 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:06:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Message-ID: Outstanding folks, the Van Den Akkers. He sold his Tool & Die Company a few years ago and is operating out his garage north of Los Angeles. He has some significant machine tools in his garage and knows how to use them. He devotes most of his time to Triumphs, works closely with Ken Gillanders, and is known to drive his TR250 from coast to coast with the scheduling of major Triumph Events. Joe (A) > Check Herman's conversions: > http://www.hvdaconversions.com/ > He's a great guy and has engineered these kits himself, from what I > gather... > Clark > From RustyTR4 at aol.com Fri Sep 21 10:41:51 2007 From: RustyTR4 at aol.com (RustyTR4 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:41:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Firestones??? Message-ID: Hello FOT, We would like to source Firestones -- preferable 165 X R15's. Does anyone know about availability?? Thanks, Don Weinberger Matt Bakes Triumph Rescue (610) 845 - 8217 _www.TriumphRescue.com_ (http://www.triumphrescue.com/) British Wiring, Inc. 866-461-9050 _www.BritishWiring.com_ (http://www.britishwiring.com/) 617 Walnut St. Bally, PA. 19503 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From Fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 21 10:57:40 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:57:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ Message-ID: In a message dated 9/21/2007 12:43:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: Generally the layshaft bearing goes south because it's small and not all that well supported. I've heard that there are some fixes for this, including dual bearings on the rear end of the layshaft. Anyone ever hear of this? The Stag has an improved laygear bearing setup but there really isn't that big a problem with the stock arrangement IF you use good parts & service it regularly. Some of the laygear replacement bearings are caged & don't have many needles in them. Torrington has a nice bearing but sometimes you have to deepen the housing bore a tad to fit them. The laygear thrusts wear from the little pieces of trash getting behind the gear & the thrust washer & backside of the washer & eating up the gear thrust washer & case but frequent lube changes minimizes this. The biggest problem is getting good parts for them. Most of the good OEM stuff is gone & repros are always in question.Syncros are a big problem, lot of bogus pos replacements on the market. Kens BFE CR gearset is great & if the box is built right & maintained it will live a good life. Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From cartravel at pobox.com Fri Sep 21 12:34:31 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:34:31 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46F40EB7.2040001@pobox.com> My transmission rebuild article at www.vtr.org has pictures of the three different layshaft bearings and typical layshaft wear. The best arrangement was the loose needle bearings used in the 3 synchro boxes, but unfortunately these can't be used in a 4 synchro box. I agree with Glen. The shell type bearings are the next best and they can be used as a direct replacement for the open cage bearings. Triumph seems to have changed these bearings more for ease of assembly rather than improved wear and reliability. Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/21/2007 12:43:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > billb at bnj.com writes: > > Generally the layshaft bearing goes south because > it's small and not all that well supported. I've heard that there are > some fixes for this, including dual bearings on the rear end of the > layshaft. Anyone ever hear of this? > > > > The Stag has an improved laygear bearing setup but there really isn't that > big a problem with the stock arrangement IF you use good parts & service it > regularly. > Some of the laygear replacement bearings are caged & don't have many needles > in them. Torrington has a nice bearing but sometimes you have to deepen the > housing bore a tad to fit them. > The laygear thrusts wear from the little pieces of trash getting behind the > gear & the thrust washer & backside of the washer & eating up the gear thrust > washer & case but frequent lube changes minimizes this. > The biggest problem is getting good parts for them. Most of the good OEM > stuff is gone & repros are always in question.Syncros are a big problem, lot of > bogus pos replacements on the market. > Kens BFE CR gearset is great & if the box is built right & maintained it > will live a good life. > Glen > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > cartravel at pobox.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Fri Sep 21 12:46:28 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:46:28 EDT Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ Message-ID: > Kens BFE CR gearset is great & if the box is built right & maintained it > will live a good life. > Glen > I have had BFE's CR Gearset for two years now. I love it. Joe A From kaskas at cox.net Fri Sep 21 13:14:05 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:14:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox References: Message-ID: <001f01c7fc83$95905d10$5717c548@RW> My Competition Prep book has a story and some photos of Herman's conversion. Good stuff. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox > Outstanding folks, the Van Den Akkers. > > He sold his Tool & Die Company a few years ago and is operating out his > garage north of Los Angeles. He has some significant machine tools in his > garage > and knows how to use them. > > He devotes most of his time to Triumphs, works closely with Ken > Gillanders, > and is known to drive his TR250 from coast to coast with the scheduling of > major Triumph Events. > > Joe (A) > >> Check Herman's conversions: >> http://www.hvdaconversions.com/ >> He's a great guy and has engineered these kits himself, from what I >> gather... >> Clark >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 21 13:32:52 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:32:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <001901c7fc86$33c404d0$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> amen to that! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack W. Drews" To: ; "Carl Braun" ; Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 9:16 AM Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality >I didn't realize until this thread started that some organizations > allow other gearboxes if 'functionally equivalent". Same goes for > brakes. Here are excerpts from SVRA's rules: > > "Transmissions: Must be functionally equivalent to the unit provided > by the manufacturer. Gear ratios are free with no increase in the > number of forward speeds. Reverse must work." > > The old TR gearbox with overdrive gives six speeds. Converting to > Toyota or other would bring that back down to five. > > Likewise on brakes, (too long to retype) the gist of it is that > alternate rotors, drums, and calipers are allowed as long as current > dimensions, materials, and pad area are maintained. > > I really like those regs. Not all North American racing clubs agree. > The only "advantage" these regs may give a competitor is in a > reduction of maintenance cost and time. Everybody who has tried to > keep Triumph transmissions intact for more than a couple of years, or > anyone who has tried to make the new stainless brake pistons and new > seals actually work, will appreciate what I mean. > > uncle jack > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From hottr6 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 21 13:45:51 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:45:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Message-ID: Allan Washatko asked: >As long as we are on this path what would the group recommend for an >upgrade to my TR6 race car transmission? I'm currently running TR7 close >ratio gears in the TR6 case with a race prepared "J" type overdrive. Same setup that I am running, but not pushing anywhere near that HP. IMO the next best course would be a dog box. I think Dan Masters runs one of these. So too Dave Wingett. Shane Ingate, now in NEW MEXICO! _________________________________________________________________ Gear up for Halo. 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_MSNHMTxt_1 From spitlist at cox.net Fri Sep 21 13:58:21 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:58:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox References: <001f01c7fc83$95905d10$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <008401c7fc89$c3f0b640$2d02a8c0@Belkin> Herman is probably going to be at Triumphest next month and he usually brings some stuff with him. So if anyone who is going to be there wants to see his gearbox conversion in person, now is your chance. Joe C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox > My Competition Prep book has a story and some photos of Herman's conversion. > Good stuff. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; ; > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:06 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox > > > > Outstanding folks, the Van Den Akkers. > > > > He sold his Tool & Die Company a few years ago and is operating out his > > garage north of Los Angeles. He has some significant machine tools in his > > garage > > and knows how to use them. > > > > He devotes most of his time to Triumphs, works closely with Ken > > Gillanders, > > and is known to drive his TR250 from coast to coast with the scheduling of > > major Triumph Events. > > > > Joe (A) > > > >> Check Herman's conversions: > >> http://www.hvdaconversions.com/ > >> He's a great guy and has engineered these kits himself, from what I > >> gather... > >> Clark > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > kaskas at cox.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Fri Sep 21 13:48:41 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:48:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Message-ID: IMO the next best course would be a dog box. I think Dan Masters runs one of these. So too Dave Wingett. Are these the Quaife gears or something else? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Fri Sep 21 13:48:08 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:48:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <9BEAB31B-C79C-4764-AA8E-31AC25D1A5F9@bnj.com> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice><000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <9BEAB31B-C79C-4764-AA8E-31AC25D1A5F9@bnj.com> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715F67@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> And by the time you're trying to enforce them, the confidentiality horse is out of the barn... -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:34 PM To: Joe Curry Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? Non competition agreements are extremely hard to enforce anywhere and are rare outside the U.S. On Sep 20, 2007, at 7:26 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > I guess that everyone is entitled to his opinion. Personally, I am > pleased with the penalties that were levied. The only thing that I > didn't particularly like was that the drivers points were unaffected. > > What I heard is that the drivers were guaranteed to keep their points > in order to get them to cooperate with the investigation. > > But I wonder how this episode has left Alonzo in the eyes of McLaren. > My guess is that he will be wearing different livery next year. > > I guess it all could be compared with employment in industries that > have trade secret information at stake. Employees typically sign non- > disclosure agreements and their contracts are always laced with > clauses stipulating that they are prohibited from working for any > competitor for at least a couple of years after leaving their current > employer. > > Surely, these teams have similar commitments involved in their hiring > practices. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:53 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? > > Hello: > > If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware > of the current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link > below will take you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its > worth a read. > > Gary > 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" > 69 TR6 > > http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/ > the_way_it_is_no92 > . > html > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot scott.barr at mccarty-law.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fasttrs at mindspring.com Fri Sep 21 14:17:00 2007 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:17:00 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002301c7fc8c$5e0cb2e0$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> I run a Saenz dog box also. Mike -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Shane Ingate Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 3:46 PM To: awashatko at wi.rr.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Allan Washatko asked: >As long as we are on this path what would the group recommend for an >upgrade to my TR6 race car transmission? I'm currently running TR7 close >ratio gears in the TR6 case with a race prepared "J" type overdrive. Same setup that I am running, but not pushing anywhere near that HP. IMO the next best course would be a dog box. I think Dan Masters runs one of these. So too Dave Wingett. Shane Ingate, now in NEW MEXICO! _________________________________________________________________ Gear up for Halo. 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_MSNHMTxt_1 fasttrs at mindspring.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From henry at henryfrye.com Fri Sep 21 14:21:42 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:21:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> When I first realized SVRA was allowing alternate gearboxes I did a little nosing around and found the concept was not universally accepted. I can sympathize with those who do not build their own gearboxes, it would be expensive to send your box out to a specialist every time it needs attention. But once you get it set up right, with the right syncros, and DRIVE IT RIGHT, there is no reason it can't last a couple seasons or more. Mine does. To the guys running non-Triumph gearboxes, I do feel you have a performance advantage. If you want to keep the regular (non-dog box) Triumph box alive, you must shift much slower than modern stuff. Tell me with a straight face that doesn't effect lap times. While I applaud SVRA for their intent, I feel they have just removed another layer of "Vintage". And to those thinking the Toyota box conversion is the answer, do your homework on spares availability... Happy shifting. > -----Original Message----- > From: Of Jack W. Drews > Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality > > I didn't realize until this thread started that some > organizations allow other gearboxes if 'functionally > equivalent". From RYoung at navcomtech.com Fri Sep 21 14:44:40 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:44:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: > And to those thinking the Toyota box conversion is the answer, do your > homework on spares availability... Hint : There's a place in El Monte, CA that brings in used ones from Japan, because they are cheaper than repairing broken ones. The broken ones get sold for scrap ... Randall fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 21 15:20:55 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:20:55 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715F67@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice><000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <9BEAB31B-C79C-4764-AA8E-31AC25D1A5F9@bnj.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715F67@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <02E039CD-BFC0-4C81-9279-192BED798A66@bnj.com> That too. My agency has a big technology base, valuable client relationships, and bushels of confidential information. Oregon has draconian confidentiality laws (thanks to Tektronix and Intel) and we are very careful to dot the t's and cross the i's to make our non-comp and confidentiality agreements binding when we hire someone. With all that going for us, the few times we've had to release the lawyers from hell, the only value was lots of shared pain between us and the miscreants. If you're in a better position to stand the pain then you sort of win. On Sep 21, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Barr, Scott wrote: > And by the time you're trying to enforce them, the confidentiality > horse > is out of the barn... > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On > Behalf > Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:34 PM > To: Joe Curry > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? > > Non competition agreements are extremely hard to enforce anywhere and > are rare outside the U.S. > > On Sep 20, 2007, at 7:26 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > >> I guess that everyone is entitled to his opinion. Personally, I am >> pleased with the penalties that were levied. The only thing that I >> didn't particularly like was that the drivers points were unaffected. >> >> What I heard is that the drivers were guaranteed to keep their points >> in order to get them to cooperate with the investigation. >> >> But I wonder how this episode has left Alonzo in the eyes of McLaren. > >> My guess is that he will be wearing different livery next year. >> >> I guess it all could be compared with employment in industries that >> have trade secret information at stake. Employees typically sign >> non- > >> disclosure agreements and their contracts are always laced with >> clauses stipulating that they are prohibited from working for any >> competitor for at least a couple of years after leaving their current >> employer. >> >> Surely, these teams have similar commitments involved in their hiring >> practices. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net >> [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of >> Gary >> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:53 PM >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? >> >> Hello: >> >> If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware >> of the current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link >> below will take you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its >> worth a read. >> >> Gary >> 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" >> 69 TR6 >> >> http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/ >> the_way_it_is_no92 >> . >> html >> spitlist at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> billb at bnj.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > scott.barr at mccarty-law.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 21 15:40:34 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:40:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: This is one of those rare occasions when I don't agree with you Henry. No doubt deliberate shifting is the answer to longevity, and no doubt the cost of not shifting deliberately should modify behavior. But it doesn't. There are those folks that can get around a track pulling everything out of a car without grinding a gear. And those that can't. You see it at every level of racing--the people with mysterious mechanical sympathy that never break anything but still stand on podiums, and the mid-pack folks that can break the ears off a brass donkey. It's a talent, it's not a conscious decision. The TR gearbox is painfully fragile and very expensive to optimize. There's fewer of them every day (it's like COBOL programmers-- thousands will die this year). Even when you have a really superbly assembled TR box it's life-span in even a 140 HP TR is relatively short, and there's no useful new parts. IMNSHO the idea is to keep racing these cars, not to price that foolish act beyond the means of the average folks. I'm all in favor of the compromises that do that. And for what it's worth, my Hardy Prentice-built CR box shifts at least as fast as my dog box, and snicks into gear like a Ferrari transmission. But you need to wait months for Hardy to watch enough television to build one (he stones the gears while he watching TV) and when you crate the transmission you might as well use ten dollar bills for packing material instead of newspaper, 'cause that's about what it will take. The dog box is an economy measure (at least that's the story I told Diane, and I'm sticking with it). On Sep 21, 2007, at 4:21 PM, Henry Frye wrote: > When I first realized SVRA was allowing alternate gearboxes I did a > little nosing around and found the concept was not universally > accepted. > > > I can sympathize with those who do not build their own gearboxes, it > would be expensive to send your box out to a specialist every time it > needs attention. But once you get it set up right, with the right > syncros, and DRIVE IT RIGHT, there is no reason it can't last a couple > seasons or more. Mine does. > > To the guys running non-Triumph gearboxes, I do feel you have a > performance advantage. If you want to keep the regular (non-dog box) > Triumph box alive, you must shift much slower than modern stuff. > Tell me > with a straight face that doesn't effect lap times. > > While I applaud SVRA for their intent, I feel they have just removed > another layer of "Vintage". > > And to those thinking the Toyota box conversion is the answer, do your > homework on spares availability... > > Happy shifting. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Of Jack W. Drews >> Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality >> >> I didn't realize until this thread started that some >> organizations allow other gearboxes if 'functionally >> equivalent". > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 21 15:45:27 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:45:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <1D27710E-D176-43BF-AFBE-61E66698A5C8@bnj.com> Toyota gearboxes are as common as belly buttons, and most have minimal wear on them. The Japanese have interesting licensing and inspection laws that ensure the domestic cars turn over frequently. The drivetrains are frequently exported to the US. It would be unusual to rebuild one--you can get a replacement for next to nothing. I paid a hundred bucks for two from 2TG toyotas--of course that was four years ago. I pulled them apart to check the typical wear areas and they were indistinguishable from new. FWIW, I never used them. They're in my storeroom waiting for me to build something that could use them. On Sep 21, 2007, at 4:44 PM, Young Randall wrote: >> And to those thinking the Toyota box conversion is the answer, do >> your >> homework on spares availability... > > Hint : There's a place in El Monte, CA that brings in used ones > from Japan, > because they are cheaper than repairing broken ones. The broken > ones get sold > for scrap ... > > Randall > > > > > fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted > with it may > contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one > of its > affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual > or entity to > whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not > disclosed > to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you > are not the > intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the > electronic > mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this > electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, > printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly > prohibited. If you > have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately > notify the > sender by return mail. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mdporter at dfn.com Fri Sep 21 16:05:10 2007 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:05:10 -0600 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <1D27710E-D176-43BF-AFBE-61E66698A5C8@bnj.com> References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> <1D27710E-D176-43BF-AFBE-61E66698A5C8@bnj.com> Message-ID: <46F44016.2080208@dfn.com> Bill Babcock wrote: > Toyota gearboxes are as common as belly buttons, and most have > minimal wear on them. The Japanese have interesting licensing and > inspection laws that ensure the domestic cars turn over frequently. > The drivetrains are frequently exported to the US. It would be > unusual to rebuild one--you can get a replacement for next to > nothing. I paid a hundred bucks for two from 2TG toyotas--of course > that was four years ago. I pulled them apart to check the typical > wear areas and they were indistinguishable from new. > > What Bill says is probably true of the transmissions today. However, this is not precisely true of the Celica/Supra/4WD 5-speeds of yesteryear, so be careful from whence the transmission comes. From the late `70s until around the mid-`80s, the 5-speeds had a tendency to fail mainshaft bearings. Toyota was aware of the problem and decided it was cheaper to just informally extend the warranty on the transmission than to do a mold and machining change to modify the case for a wider roller bearing at the front, and continued to use a ball bearing, which wasn't up to the loads. Oh, and if someone tells you their transmission came out of the diesel truck and is therefore stronger, that's not true--those transmissions were the same as the above. All that probably does not apply for anything made beyond the mid- to late-`80s, but there are still lots of the older transmissions in junkyards, so it's worth remembering. To a lesser degree, the same was true of the Corolla 5-speeds of the time, but they didn't suffer the same rate of failure because they just couldn't be pushed as hard. Even so, in the sixteen months I was at a Toyota shop in the early `80s, I did do a bearing replacement on a Corolla 5-speed with about 30,000 miles on it. All that said, though, they're a much better starting point than the GT6 gearbox.... Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 21 16:31:42 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:31:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net><2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local><1D27710E-D176-43BF-AFBE-61E66698A5C8@bnj.com> <46F44016.2080208@dfn.com> Message-ID: <008001c7fc9f$2fb047f0$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> This GT6 has a T50 5 speed so can't say much about the others (besides the others are much larger and heavier than the T50). However, they did modify the front of the T50 case to accept a larger input shaft ball bearing assembly in the later gearboxes which was supposed to help. When buying spare parts (which are readily available if you know where to look) you need to know which box you have. I have looked inside 100K gearboxes and 50K gearboxes. Bearings show little or no wear in either. Even the syncro's are still good and Granny drove the car for 20 years. Used gearboxes are everywhere for $150-$200. Really good ones from Japan are $500-$1000. A variety of close ratio gear sets are available if you look hard . I know I will get hammered for saying this.....but most of us are just wannabe drivers anyway (me included) and how much advantage will the gearbox really give you. It will sure keep you on the track longer and seeing the cars on the track is really the fun for alot of us. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Porter" To: "Bill Babcock" Cc: ; "Young Randall" Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 6:05 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > Bill Babcock wrote: >> Toyota gearboxes are as common as belly buttons, and most have >> minimal wear on them. The Japanese have interesting licensing and >> inspection laws that ensure the domestic cars turn over frequently. >> The drivetrains are frequently exported to the US. It would be >> unusual to rebuild one--you can get a replacement for next to >> nothing. I paid a hundred bucks for two from 2TG toyotas--of course >> that was four years ago. I pulled them apart to check the typical >> wear areas and they were indistinguishable from new. >> >> > > What Bill says is probably true of the transmissions today. However, > this is not precisely true of the Celica/Supra/4WD 5-speeds of > yesteryear, so be careful from whence the transmission comes. From the > late `70s until around the mid-`80s, the 5-speeds had a tendency to fail > mainshaft bearings. Toyota was aware of the problem and decided it was > cheaper to just informally extend the warranty on the transmission than > to do a mold and machining change to modify the case for a wider roller > bearing at the front, and continued to use a ball bearing, which wasn't > up to the loads. Oh, and if someone tells you their transmission came > out of the diesel truck and is therefore stronger, that's not > true--those transmissions were the same as the above. > > All that probably does not apply for anything made beyond the mid- to > late-`80s, but there are still lots of the older transmissions in > junkyards, so it's worth remembering. > > To a lesser degree, the same was true of the Corolla 5-speeds of the > time, but they didn't suffer the same rate of failure because they just > couldn't be pushed as hard. Even so, in the sixteen months I was at a > Toyota shop in the early `80s, I did do a bearing replacement on a > Corolla 5-speed with about 30,000 miles on it. > > All that said, though, they're a much better starting point than the GT6 > gearbox.... > > > Cheers. > > -- > > > Michael Porter > Roswell, NM > > > Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking > distance.... > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Catpusher at aol.com Fri Sep 21 16:47:45 2007 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:47:45 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Message-ID: I spent quite some time blueprinting the TR3B/6 gearboxes for racing. The late laygear with "c" clips to help retain the (rear) laygear brg. is a good thing, and TRF supplies a slightly longer torrington lay brg, which is also good. I would check the hardness of any new layshaft. With Redline oil, I really flogged this gearbox with fine reliability. Do check and safety wire the top cover wedgelocks. I used the modified CR gearsets from the Dolomite Sprint (can not quite picture TR7 gears in the big TR box) I did run many seasons with the 7 speed overdrive setup before scca allowed alt. gear ratios for the TR3. The Stag gearbox has a 2 diameter layshaft, so there is a larger ID for the 2 rear lay bearings; it also has nifty needle layshaft thrust bearings. Do not believe the stag manual about drifting the layshaft out the front of the case! The standard input shaft is too long for TR use. Hardy ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From JWoesvra at aol.com Fri Sep 21 18:13:08 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 20:13:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: In a message dated 9/21/2007 5:41:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: > While I applaud SVRA for their intent, I feel they have just removed > another layer of "Vintage". > > And to those thinking the Toyota box conversion is the answer, do your > homework on spares availability... > > Happy shifting. I'm not sure who is "lurking" and not naming themselves, but I have an idea. Anyway, SVRA did not "just" remove another layer of "VINTAGE! This transmission rule has been in effect for ten years. Do you guys ever read the stuff I print and post? I guess you don't, Henry...oops. Anyway, I want cars on the track on Sunday. Nothin' I hate worse than seeing TR's or such leaving Friday busted. Almost is bad is looking in a TR guy's trailer and seeing 3 g'boxes lined up "jist 'n case. As long as I have the reins on the tech side of SVRA you can count on reasonable solutions to the ever mounting reliability problems. You can call me whatever you want, that is the way it is. BTW, If you read deep enough, there is also a small weight penalty for changing to a "modern" tranny. If you want to be absolutely pure Vintage then you shouldn't be discussing alternate rods and cranks, alloy HD hubs, specialty gears, etc. How many of you have fake headlights? That wasn't allowed until 1970. What about passenger seats? Had to have one until 1969. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director for 16 years and not ready to retire ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Fri Sep 21 21:08:03 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 20:08:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] grp 44 frt brakes Message-ID: <46F48713.4060408@cyberspeedway.net> Everybody, It turns out that the drawings Rod Kent had were from Group 44 for bigger spindles and bearings to cure the spindle flex problem. The bigger bearings required a bigger hub but it mounted stock rotors. This mod predated SCCA allowing the Jag rotor/caliper combo. I do have some sketches of the bigger spindles and hubs I made for the street toy. They use the Jag rotors because we had so many spares. I also have the sketches of adapters to mount the Sumitomo 300zx calipers. The ZX calipers have huge pistons which help solve the TR pedal ratio shortcomings. The spindles use the stock inner bearing with a Chevy Malibu outer. I can scan the sketches if anybody is interested. They do have most dimensions but they were drawn while being made so I can't guarantee results. (your mileage may vary) Anybody good with Autocad is welcome to clean them up. Greg Lund From walt at hot-tr6.com Fri Sep 21 21:37:13 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:37:13 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Weber Racing Carburetors T- Shirt for FOT members Message-ID: <20070922033755.1317C1879BA@autox.team.net> If you use Weber Carbs on your Triumph, as I do, you might be interested in my limited run of T Shirts. See ebaymotors item # 330168439080. I am offering special pricing to FOT members of $19 per shirt and this includes shipping. If interested please contact me ditectly via email at: walt at hot-tr6.com Give me the size and color you wish. I'll ship you the shirt you can mail me the check. Thank You Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, NM From wgrosenbach at juno.com Fri Sep 21 16:41:05 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:41:05 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Colfax Avenue Cruise and Car Festivals Saturday 9-22, 4-8 PM Message-ID: <20070921.164105.1676.27.wgrosenbach@juno.com> This Saturday, 22-September is the inaugural Colfax Avenue Cruise and Car Festivals. One change has been that for this year anyway, it was not possible to get setup to use any of the sites out West in Lakewood/ Golden for a Festival Site. So the Western-most site will be at a location [coincidentally named] Festival Plaza at 3220 W. Colfax in Denver. Second site is East High School is at 2300 E. Colfax in Denver. The third site is at the Super K-Mart at 15200 W. Colfax in Aurora. See http://www.oldcarcouncil.org/CruiseColfax.html for more information. Participate! As a spectator if not as a driver. KOOL-105 will be at all sites. Spread the word, bring your friends! From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Fri Sep 21 22:38:15 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:38:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox Message-ID: <46F49C37.8000108@cyberspeedway.net> A couple of people mentioned the number of speeds in a TR box referencing that 4 speed + OD = 6 or 7 speeds. Unfortunately, SCCA never recognized the OD as "speeds" until sometime in the 90's. They had wording in the GCR stating that 4 speeds plus OD still equals 4 speeds in the gearbox. This kind of convoluted logic has mostly gone away. We are now allowed 5 speeds. With the torquey big TR motors, using 5 gears would most probably result in lower lap times. Most Production and GT racers are using 1st gear in a 5 speed as a paddock gear. Around PIR, Firebird, and Buttonwillow, using 3 gears is faster than 4 with a lot of close ratio boxes and production engines. Most of us clubbies shift too often and at too high an rpm but it sure sounds good. Sometimes on board data aquisition ruins a good thing. Greg Lund From Catpusher at aol.com Sat Sep 22 00:42:44 2007 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 02:42:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] Subject: Re: gearbox legality Message-ID: Hi FOT and Bill, I will have a real response later, as it is very late here; but just in case Continental drops an aircraft tomorrow: I had no distractions whilst working on BB's gearboxes, not even radio; and they were shipped before requested. I was very impressed that he asked for the very best that I could build. It is also fun to hear thoughts about my workshop. No new customers requested. Hardy In a message dated 9/21/2007 8:08:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: And for what it's worth, my Hardy Prentice-built CR box shifts at least as fast as my dog box, and snicks into gear like a Ferrari transmission. But you need to wait months for Hardy to watch enough television to build one (he stones the gears while he watching TV) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sat Sep 22 03:33:38 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 04:33:38 -0500 Subject: [Fot] grp 44 frt brakes In-Reply-To: <46F48713.4060408@cyberspeedway.net> References: <46F48713.4060408@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <200709220934.l8M9Xwk1157180@ns3.geneseo.net> .............or you might be interested in the kit available on the market to accomplish this, eliminating the need for you to have your local machine shop do it............. At 10:08 PM 9/21/2007, greg wrote: >Everybody, > It turns out that the drawings Rod Kent had were from Group 44 for >bigger spindles and bearings to cure the spindle flex problem. The >bigger bearings required a bigger hub but it mounted stock rotors. This >mod predated SCCA allowing the Jag rotor/caliper combo. I do have some >sketches of the bigger spindles and hubs I made for the street toy. They >use the Jag rotors because we had so many spares. I also have the >sketches of adapters to mount the Sumitomo 300zx calipers. The ZX >calipers have huge pistons which help solve the TR pedal ratio >shortcomings. The spindles use the stock inner bearing with a Chevy >Malibu outer. I can scan the sketches if anybody is interested. They do >have most dimensions but they were drawn while being made so I can't >guarantee results. (your mileage may vary) Anybody good with Autocad is >welcome to clean them up. > >Greg Lund >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From BillDentin at aol.com Sat Sep 22 07:28:44 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:28:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: In a message dated 09/21/2007 4:42:14 PM Central Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: > This is one of those rare occasions when I don't agree with you > Henry. No doubt deliberate shifting is the answer to longevity, and > no doubt the cost of not shifting deliberately should modify > behavior. But it doesn't. There are those folks that can get around a > track pulling everything out of a car without grinding a gear. And > those that can't. You see it at every level of racing--the people > with mysterious mechanical sympathy that never break anything but > still stand on podiums, and the mid-pack folks that can break the > ears off a brass donkey. It's a talent, it's not a conscious decision. > > Mechanics, who also race, tend to have a gentle driving style because they know and think about what it takes to rebuild. Mike Belfer had a smooth gentle style and drove that way. Mike Cataldo, Belfer's racing partner, was the hot shoe in their paddock. He went faster, but then he didn't have to repair the race car. Those of us who don't wrench never really get that. I've seen several Jack Drews in-car video races. Jack's a front runner and I am always amazed at how smooth he drives. Same thing with John Harkness. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillB at bnj.com Sat Sep 22 07:31:30 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:31:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Subject: Re: gearbox legality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I hope you didn't misunderstand, Hardy, I treasure the gearbox you built for me, I consider it cheap at the price, and I have nothing but respect for your experience, your skill and your knowledge. On Sep 22, 2007, at 2:42 AM, Catpusher at aol.com wrote: > Hi FOT and Bill, > > I will have a real response later, as it is very late here; but > just in case Continental drops an aircraft tomorrow: > I had no distractions whilst working on BB's gearboxes, not even > radio; and they were shipped before > requested. I was very impressed that he asked for the very best > that I could build. > It is also fun to hear thoughts about my workshop. No new > customers requested. > > Hardy > > In a message dated 9/21/2007 8:08:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot- > request at autox.team.net writes: > And for what it's worth, my Hardy > Prentice-built CR box shifts at least as fast as my dog box, and > snicks into gear like a Ferrari transmission. But you need to wait > months for Hardy to watch enough television to build one (he stones > the gears while he watching TV) > > > > See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. From billsohl at optonline.net Sat Sep 22 07:59:34 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:59:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] One-Lap TR-250 In-Reply-To: <380-22007952114250178@M2W037.mail2web.com> References: <380-22007952114250178@M2W037.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <3D442CF719594A6299869B2F6FFE1E72@SohlPC> Terrific, I co-drove the 250 with Charles in the '88 event. We finished 15th overall of some 50+ entrants. While there was no special recognition for the fact, we were the highest finishing 2 person entrant...most entrants being 3 person teams. The One-Lap route that year covered 8300 miles in 8 days. Cheers, Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER I will ask Charles... Original Message: ----------------- From: Bill Sohl billsohl at optonline.net Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:18:46 -0400 To: N197TR4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net, Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER It would be great too if Charles (TRF) was able to bring along the '68 TR-250 "One Lap" car that was run in the 86, 87 and 88 one lap events. Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: ; Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:02 PM Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > FoT List: > > I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > > He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of > their > major event in September of next year. > > Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and > Running of the Original Street Course. > > Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and > our > Grand Marshall. > > The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace > Car > for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > > We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to > Jack > Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > > It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an > indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > > Regards, > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billsohl at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft. Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From henry at henryfrye.com Sat Sep 22 08:27:19 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:27:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACF@server.Triumph.local> I guess it is apparent I don't live and breath the SVRA rules. I have no reason to, with the exception of the engine, my car prep is very basic. The point I was trying to make is I find no issue with the Triumph gearbox. If you build it right and drive it right, it will last. I am sure my gearbox is crude compared to one built by somebody that really knows what they are doing, but it works for me. It shifts slow, it leaks a little oil, but it gets the job done. I understand that because it works for me, that does not mean it will work for everybody. But all the same, I do think since a majority of TR drivers are running the Triumph box successfully, those that invest in the alternate boxes are copping out. Interesting side note, the gearbox rule is found in the General Rules and Regs, so it applies to all SVRA cars, not specifically Triumphs. > -----Original Message----- > From: JWoesvra at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > > This transmission rule has been in effect for ten years. Do > you guys ever read the stuff I print and post? I guess you > don't, Henry...oops. From henry at henryfrye.com Sat Sep 22 08:45:05 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:45:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FAD0@server.Triumph.local> Bill, All good points. While you say we can't get any useful NEW parts, that does not mean we can't find good parts. The only parts that came from the usual parts suppliers in my race gearbox are the seals and gaskets. And guess what, it leaks... I guess since my only experience racing is with my TR4, I don't think it is unreasonable to need to go through a gearbox every couple years. Those who have raced reliable iron probably view that as ridiculous! Cheers > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Babcock [mailto:billb at bnj.com] > Sent: September 21, 2007 5:41 PM > To: Henry Frye > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > > This is one of those rare occasions when I don't agree with > you Henry. No doubt deliberate shifting is the answer to > longevity, and no doubt the cost of not shifting deliberately > should modify behavior. But it doesn't. There are those folks > that can get around a track pulling everything out of a car > without grinding a gear. And those that can't. You see it at > every level of racing--the people with mysterious mechanical > sympathy that never break anything but still stand on > podiums, and the mid-pack folks that can break the ears off a > brass donkey. It's a talent, it's not a conscious decision. > > The TR gearbox is painfully fragile and very expensive to > optimize. > There's fewer of them every day (it's like COBOL > programmers-- thousands will die this year). Even when you > have a really superbly assembled TR box it's life-span in > even a 140 HP TR is relatively short, and there's no useful new parts. > > IMNSHO the idea is to keep racing these cars, not to price > that foolish act beyond the means of the average folks. I'm > all in favor of the compromises that do that. And for what > it's worth, my Hardy Prentice-built CR box shifts at least as > fast as my dog box, and snicks into gear like a Ferrari > transmission. But you need to wait months for Hardy to watch > enough television to build one (he stones the gears while he > watching TV) and when you crate the transmission you might as > well use ten dollar bills for packing material instead of > newspaper, 'cause that's about what it will take. The dog > box is an economy measure (at least that's the story I told > Diane, and I'm sticking with it). From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sat Sep 22 08:53:55 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 07:53:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality References: Message-ID: <002301c7fd28$66ba19e0$0501000a@Chowdown> John Hornbostel must be a smooth driver too. The M. Belfer gearbox has been in the car since at least 1989 and is still going strong. (24 race weekends) hope i didn't jinx it! ~Steve B ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Cc: Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 6:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > In a message dated 09/21/2007 4:42:14 PM Central Daylight Time, > billb at bnj.com > writes: > > >> This is one of those rare occasions when I don't agree with you >> Henry. No doubt deliberate shifting is the answer to longevity, and >> no doubt the cost of not shifting deliberately should modify >> behavior. But it doesn't. There are those folks that can get around a >> track pulling everything out of a car without grinding a gear. And >> those that can't. You see it at every level of racing--the people >> with mysterious mechanical sympathy that never break anything but >> still stand on podiums, and the mid-pack folks that can break the >> ears off a brass donkey. It's a talent, it's not a conscious decision. >> >> > > Mechanics, who also race, tend to have a gentle driving style because they > know and think about what it takes to rebuild. Mike Belfer had a smooth > gentle > style and drove that way. Mike Cataldo, Belfer's racing partner, was the > hot > shoe in their paddock. He went faster, but then he didn't have to repair > the > race car. > > Those of us who don't wrench never really get that. I've seen several > Jack > Drews in-car video races. Jack's a front runner and I am always amazed at > how > smooth he drives. Same thing with John Harkness. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From scypher at usa.com Sat Sep 22 09:28:26 2007 From: scypher at usa.com (Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer)) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:28:26 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox In-Reply-To: <46F49C37.8000108@cyberspeedway.net> References: <46F49C37.8000108@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <0E19F35A-DA7D-4451-8A34-CD5F615B3B76@usa.com> Production GCR authorized modifications D.4.a.1 still reads 4 speed + OD = 4 speed unless the cars spec line allows it....Other categories may be different... Not that I wouldn't mind trying a 5spd....but I don't have an exemption on my spec line like the EP class triumphs do..... Thanks -S Scott Cypher SCCA # 362573 #57 HP Spitfire 1500 From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Sat Sep 22 10:35:12 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:35:12 -0500 Subject: [Fot] test Message-ID: <000001c7fd36$8c95b030$8d20b348@blake1> Testing an email filter From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Sat Sep 22 09:55:27 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:55:27 -0700 Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] Message-ID: <46F53AEF.4080307@cyberspeedway.net> I stand corrected. Sorry about that. I broke a cardinal rule of a tech inspector - consult the GCR not your memory. Have any Spitfire guys petitioned the Club Racing Board for a 5 speed? Citing the TR6 as a precedent is a BIG foot in the door. It does away with that "philosophy of class" stonewalling. Greg Lund -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:28:26 -0400 From: Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer) To: greg CC: FOT LIST References: <46F49C37.8000108 at cyberspeedway.net> Production GCR authorized modifications D.4.a.1 still reads 4 speed + OD = 4 speed unless the cars spec line allows it....Other categories may be different... Not that I wouldn't mind trying a 5spd....but I don't have an exemption on my spec line like the EP class triumphs do..... Thanks -S Scott Cypher SCCA # 362573 #57 HP Spitfire 1500 From fpspitfire at insightbb.com Sat Sep 22 10:12:41 2007 From: fpspitfire at insightbb.com (fpspitfire at insightbb.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:12:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] In-Reply-To: <46F53AEF.4080307@cyberspeedway.net> References: <46F53AEF.4080307@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: The Big TR's (and MGB, and a few others) were allowed 5 speeds because every other car in EP was given a 5 speed, this might have also coincided with the combination of C/D/E production. There is no precedence in the small bore classes for gearboxes other than the original forward speeds. This was evident when they did a carte blanche move of the MGB to FP a couple years ago. The original move received much badness (me included as I was running F at the time) and the decision was made to remove the 5 speed allowance for the MGB. FWIW, I don't think a 5 speed is necessary...the 5th gear would be 1st and it would be a pit/paddock gear and nothing more. It might help save the clutch a little bit, but I wouldn't use it on the track. Aaron ----- Original Message ----- From: greg Date: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:59 Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] To: FOT LIST > I stand corrected. Sorry about that. I broke a > cardinal rule of a > tech inspector - consult the GCR not your memory. Have any > Spitfire guys > petitioned the Club Racing Board for a 5 speed? Citing the TR6 > as a > precedent is a BIG foot in the door. It does away with that > "philosophy > of class" stonewalling. > > Greg Lund > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox > Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:28:26 -0400 > From: Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer) > To: greg > CC: FOT LIST > References: <46F49C37.8000108 at cyberspeedway.net> > > Production GCR authorized modifications D.4.a.1 still reads > 4 speed + OD = 4 speed unless the cars spec line allows it....Other > categories may be different... > > Not that I wouldn't mind trying a 5spd....but I don't have an > exemption on my spec line like the EP class triumphs do..... > > Thanks > -S > > Scott Cypher > SCCA # 362573 > #57 HP Spitfire 1500 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > fpspitfire at insightbb.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Sat Sep 22 10:14:37 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:14:37 EDT Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: "But all the same, I do think since a majority of TR drivers are running the Triumph box successfully, those that invest in the alternate boxes are copping out." If one does his homework & has the ability & budget to allow, there are a few gearbox options that are better shifting, reliable, better weights (including rotating), & have better ratios. That's an ADVANTAGE, period, especially in the hands of a good driver. I've said it many times, this is exactly what happened to SCCA production (albeit for some different reasons) & drove the costs to be competitive out of reach for the average guy/gal. At a certain point, it's just a Triumph-facsimile. Glen with Stanpart gearboxes ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad range of racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own interpretation of "vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & their job is to keep everybody happy. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 22 10:49:50 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <639156.15095.qm@web57614.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad range of racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own interpretation of "vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & their job is to keep everybody happy. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Sat Sep 22 11:35:45 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:35:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] In-Reply-To: References: <46F53AEF.4080307@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <46F55271.8080809@cyberspeedway.net> I agree. We never considered a 5 speed for the 6. We ran a Mag case Jerico with Kas's old close ratio splits. Some tracke we only used 3 of the 4 gears. BTW the Mag case Jerico is only about 5 pounds more than the TR6 box. The trouble is the shift linkage intrudes on the left side and reduces leg room drastically. Rod wore a big kneepad on his right leg to keep the bruises down. If I did this again I would look at rotating the box 90 degrees and using the MVE shifter. I would also use the thin qualifying gearsets to reduce the weight and rotating mass. Jericos are all over Ebay now. Greg Lund fpspitfire at insightbb.com wrote: > The Big TR's (and MGB, and a few others) were allowed 5 speeds because every other car in EP was given a 5 speed, this might have also coincided with the combination of C/D/E production. > > There is no precedence in the small bore classes for gearboxes other than the original forward speeds. This was evident when they did a carte blanche move of the MGB to FP a couple years ago. The original move received much badness (me included as I was running F at the time) and the decision was made to remove the 5 speed allowance for the MGB. > > FWIW, I don't think a 5 speed is necessary...the 5th gear would be 1st and it would be a pit/paddock gear and nothing more. It might help save the clutch a little bit, but I wouldn't use it on the track. > > Aaron > ----- Original Message ----- > From: greg > Date: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:59 > Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] > To: FOT LIST > >> I stand corrected. Sorry about that. I broke a >> cardinal rule of a >> tech inspector - consult the GCR not your memory. Have any >> Spitfire guys >> petitioned the Club Racing Board for a 5 speed? Citing the TR6 >> as a >> precedent is a BIG foot in the door. It does away with that >> "philosophy >> of class" stonewalling. >> >> Greg Lund >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox >> Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:28:26 -0400 >> From: Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer) >> To: greg >> CC: FOT LIST >> References: <46F49C37.8000108 at cyberspeedway.net> >> >> Production GCR authorized modifications D.4.a.1 still reads >> 4 speed + OD = 4 speed unless the cars spec line allows it....Other >> categories may be different... >> >> Not that I wouldn't mind trying a 5spd....but I don't have an >> exemption on my spec line like the EP class triumphs do..... >> >> Thanks >> -S >> >> Scott Cypher >> SCCA # 362573 >> #57 HP Spitfire 1500 >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> fpspitfire at insightbb.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fpspitfire at insightbb.com Sat Sep 22 13:02:33 2007 From: fpspitfire at insightbb.com (fpspitfire at insightbb.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 14:02:33 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> <1D27710E-D176-43BF-AFBE-61E66698A5C8@bnj.com> <46F44016.2080208@dfn.com> <008001c7fc9f$2fb047f0$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: Date: Friday, September 21, 2007 21:37 Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality To: Bob Cc: mdporter at dfn.com,Bill Babcock ,Young Randall ,fot at autox.team.net > FWIW... > I run a Gearbox that looks almost identical to the Spitfire box > on the outside. However, it is an aluminium case with > Hewland Mk9 gearsets and dog engagment inside. It uses a > modified input, output and layshaft and is far beefier than > anything else out there. Plus you get the added bonus of > being able to select any ratios you want. > > If you have questions contact me. > > Not sure if that type of conversion is legal in vintage, but it > sure is in SCCA :) > > aaron > > Aaron Johnson > #8 (for now) HP Spitfire 1500 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bob > Date: Friday, September 21, 2007 17:31 > Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > To: mdporter at dfn.com, Bill Babcock > Cc: Young Randall , fot at autox.team.net > > > This GT6 has a T50 5 speed so can't say much about the others > > (besides the > > others are much larger and heavier than the T50). However, > they > > did modify > > the front of the T50 case to accept a larger input shaft ball > > bearing > > assembly in the later gearboxes which was supposed to help. > When > > buying > > spare parts (which are readily available if you know where to > > look) you need > > to know which box you have. > > > > I have looked inside 100K gearboxes and 50K gearboxes. > Bearings > > show little > > or no wear in either. Even the syncro's are still good and > > Granny drove the > > car for 20 years. > > > > Used gearboxes are everywhere for $150-$200. Really good ones > > from Japan are > > $500-$1000. A variety of close ratio gear sets are available > if > > you look > > hard > > . > > I know I will get hammered for saying this.....but most of us > > are just > > wannabe drivers anyway (me included) and how much advantage > will > > the gearbox > > really give you. It will sure keep you on the track longer and > > seeing the > > cars on the track is really the fun for alot of us. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Michael Porter" > > To: "Bill Babcock" > > Cc: ; "Young Randall" > > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 > 6:05 PM > > Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > > > > > > > Bill Babcock wrote: > > >> Toyota gearboxes are as common as belly buttons, and most have > > >> minimal wear on them. The Japanese have interesting > licensing and > > >> inspection laws that ensure the domestic cars turn over > frequently.> >> The drivetrains are frequently exported to the > US. It would be > > >> unusual to rebuild one--you can get a replacement for next to > > >> nothing. I paid a hundred bucks for two from 2TG toyotas-- > of course > > >> that was four years ago. I pulled them apart to check the typical > > >> wear areas and they were indistinguishable from new. From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sat Sep 22 13:41:45 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 14:41:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <639156.15095.qm@web57614.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <639156.15095.qm@web57614.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200709221942.l8MJg5sd256700@ns3.geneseo.net> No, we're just shifting into high gear........... At 11:49 AM 9/22/2007, Ernest Husmann wrote: >Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? > > >Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad range of >racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own interpretation of >"vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & their job is >to keep everybody happy. > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com >ehusmann53 at yahoo.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > >--------------------------------- > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sat Sep 22 13:59:08 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 13:59:08 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions Message-ID: <000401c7fd53$09c33750$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Can anyone suggest a good plug for my car ? I'm just short of 11:1 compresson, MSD 7AL-2 ignition, MSD HVC-2 coil D spec cam & stock strombergs. MSD suggests .050 gap for this set up & CR regardless of the plug type. Does this sound right ? Thanks again, Jim Gray From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sat Sep 22 15:05:53 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 17:05:53 EDT Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] Message-ID: fpspitfire at insightbb.com Wrote: BTW the Mag case Jerico is only about 5 pounds more than the TR6 box. The trouble is the shift linkage intrudes on the left side and reduces leg room drastically. Rod wore a big kneepad on his right leg to keep the bruises down. If I did this again I would look at rotating the box 90 degrees and using the MVE shifter. I would also use the thin qualifying gearsets to reduce the weight and rotating mass. Jericos are all over Ebay now. Greg Lund So, convert your left-hooker Triumph back to the Right-Hand Steer that it was designed to be all along, end of problem! As another advantage, if that pesky flywheel should ever come loose, then they inavariably head for the Left side footwell... And what does it matter which side of the car the steering is on if it is a track only car? Everyone else is (usually) going in the same direction! Even if racecaR is the same spelled forwards or backwards! Regards Leon Triumph Vitesse Cv, Right-Hand Steer! From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sat Sep 22 15:50:59 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:50:59 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser failures Message-ID: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> I'm trying to get through to the Mallory tech people to share our frustration with them, but in the meantime I uncovered their document 1484M which is too long to attach but I will excerpt it: IF THE POINTS BURN UP OR THE CONDENSER FAILS FREQUENTLY: 1.Condenser failure is often due a grounding problem. Make sure surfaces are free of grease, oil, etc 2. If the condenser needs changing, make sure that the bracket is changed at the same time. The brackets are basically a one-use part. They are designed to scratch through the rust preventative coating on the condenser when it is installed. Scuffing off this coating will guarantee a good ground. 3. -- grounds 4. A simple ground strap from the distributor body to the block can solve the problem. The distributor clamp is not a reliable ground. Also, interestingly, a section entitled IF THE POINTS ARE CONTINUALLY OUT OF ADJUSTMENT 1. lateral movement of the shaft means the distributor has to be rebuilt 2. Confirm that the point set is not designed for racing only with excessive spring tension. This increases rubbing block wear even when properly lubricated. Huh. Ididn't know there were two series of points. uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 22 17:35:35 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <200709221942.l8MJg5sd256700@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <189720.65800.qm@web57603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> It's amazing how these threads get off the subject so quickly. This one started Thursday morning with Alan asking for advice on TR6 gearboxes but quickly turn to a discussion related to rules regarding car prep. It's fine for a short time but we're not going to change the rules on the FoT mail list; at least I don't think we have that much power? Enjoy, E. PS. Would that be 5th gear, 4th gear overdrive, or are we now running 6-speeds? Hey I'm not a purist. "Jack W. Drews" wrote: No, we're just shifting into high gear........... At 11:49 AM 9/22/2007, Ernest Husmann wrote: >Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? > > >Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad range of >racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own interpretation of >"vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & their job is >to keep everybody happy. > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com >ehusmann53 at yahoo.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > >--------------------------------- > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. From billb at bnj.com Sat Sep 22 18:02:35 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 20:02:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <189720.65800.qm@web57603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <189720.65800.qm@web57603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Clearly you need to change your mental metaphor for the FOT. It's like a bunch of racers at the bar in Siebken's The topics might start from a rational observation--like "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door". And quickly transform into a discussion of whether or not it is morally reprehensible to use a Mallory distributor. It's a good thing. And of course we have the power. All we have to do is universally agree on something. I'm not holding my breath. On Sep 22, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Ernest Husmann wrote: > It's amazing how these threads get off the subject so quickly. > This one started Thursday morning with Alan asking for advice on > TR6 gearboxes but quickly turn to a discussion related to rules > regarding car prep. It's fine for a short time but we're not going > to change the rules on the FoT mail list; at least I don't think we > have that much power? > > Enjoy, > > E. > > PS. Would that be 5th gear, 4th gear overdrive, or are we now > running 6-speeds? Hey I'm not a purist. > > "Jack W. Drews" wrote: > No, we're just shifting into high gear........... > > At 11:49 AM 9/22/2007, Ernest Husmann wrote: > >Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? > > > > > >Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad > range of > >racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own > interpretation of > >"vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & > their job is > >to keep everybody happy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's new at http:// > www.aol.com > >ehusmann53 at yahoo.com > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > uncle jack > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > > > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. From billbab at mac.com Sat Sep 22 07:52:34 2007 From: billbab at mac.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:52:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Subject: Re: gearbox legality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4169A5BF-C905-420D-A519-247C24B29E1E@mac.com> A little more clarification. I'm a writer. Worse yet I'm a guy who learned to write by writing advertising--in other words I BS'd for a living. Even though I don't do it for money any more I automatically fluff up facts to create mental pictures that illustrate a point, and the point I was making was that good TR transmissions are rare, expensive, and take a lot of time to build--which makes them less a solution for racers who are making hard decisions about where to spend their bucks. You did tell me that you liked to deburr the gears while you watched television, but I certainly wasn't implying distraction--just that it takes a lot of tedious work to make one of these boxes work so well. If I even momentarily hurt your feelings then I am crushed. You are one of my heros. On Sep 22, 2007, at 9:31 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I hope you didn't misunderstand, Hardy, I treasure the gearbox you > built for me, I consider it cheap at the price, and I have nothing > but respect for your experience, your skill and your knowledge. > > On Sep 22, 2007, at 2:42 AM, Catpusher at aol.com wrote: > >> Hi FOT and Bill, >> >> I will have a real response later, as it is very late here; but >> just in case Continental drops an aircraft tomorrow: >> I had no distractions whilst working on BB's gearboxes, not even >> radio; and they were shipped before >> requested. I was very impressed that he asked for the very best >> that I could build. >> It is also fun to hear thoughts about my workshop. No new >> customers requested. >> >> Hardy >> >> In a message dated 9/21/2007 8:08:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot- >> request at autox.team.net writes: >> And for what it's worth, my Hardy >> Prentice-built CR box shifts at least as fast as my dog box, and >> snicks into gear like a Ferrari transmission. But you need to wait >> months for Hardy to watch enough television to build one (he stones >> the gears while he watching TV) >> >> >> >> See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. From mlcooknj at msn.com Sat Sep 22 19:49:29 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:49:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: To Bill B- I'm glad you wrote that other message stating that you are a writer. "bandoleer of bachelorettes" is quite a metaphor. Maybe instead of arguing the merits of which gearboxes will stand up best to the worst shifting, we can discuss the moral aspects of stuffing young ladies into the pockets of a cartridge belt and wearing them. Mike Cook ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 8:16 PM To: Ernest Husmann Cc: fot at autox.team.net; Fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality Clearly you need to change your mental metaphor for the FOT. It's like a bunch of racers at the bar in Siebken's The topics might start from a rational observation--like "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door". And quickly transform into a discussion of whether or not it is morally reprehensible to use a Mallory distributor. It's a good thing. And of course we have the power. All we have to do is universally agree on something. I'm not holding my breath. On Sep 22, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Ernest Husmann wrote: > It's amazing how these threads get off the subject so quickly. > This one started Thursday morning with Alan asking for advice on > TR6 gearboxes but quickly turn to a discussion related to rules > regarding car prep. It's fine for a short time but we're not going > to change the rules on the FoT mail list; at least I don't think we > have that much power? > > Enjoy, > > E. > > PS. Would that be 5th gear, 4th gear overdrive, or are we now > running 6-speeds? Hey I'm not a purist. > > "Jack W. Drews" wrote: > No, we're just shifting into high gear........... > > At 11:49 AM 9/22/2007, Ernest Husmann wrote: > >Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? > > > > > >Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad > range of > >racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own > interpretation of > >"vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & > their job is > >to keep everybody happy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's new at http:// > www.aol.com > >ehusmann53 at yahoo.com > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > uncle jack > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > > > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. mlcooknj at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sat Sep 22 21:06:17 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 23:06:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50FBCA58-BCEA-4FFD-83E1-3D0478BAEFA4@bnj.com> Not really a metaphor. Those who were at Siebkins during the spring race (I think it was an SVRA one, but I'm sure someone will set me straight if I was wrong) may be acquainted with the bandolier of bachelorettes. A fine bevy of young ladies showed up wearing strangely colored wigs with a chaperone who seemed to be more likely to get into deep trouble than her charges. They danced like wild druids, held BS Levy up when he did a kind of matlock-style stage dive into their midst, and performed a chair dance on one of the mechanics in the middle of the dance floor. Then returned to Green Bay, leaving a trail of broken hearts. On Sep 22, 2007, at 9:49 PM, michael cook wrote: > To Bill B- > > I'm glad you wrote that other message stating that you are a > writer. "bandoleer of bachelorettes" is quite a metaphor. Maybe > instead of arguing the merits of which gearboxes will stand up best > to the worst shifting, we can discuss the moral aspects of stuffing > young ladies into the pockets of a cartridge belt and wearing them. > > Mike Cook > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Babcock > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 8:16 PM > To: Ernest Husmann > Cc: fot at autox.team.net; Fubog1 at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > > Clearly you need to change your mental metaphor for the FOT. It's > like a bunch of racers at the bar in Siebken's The topics might start > from a rational observation--like "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of > bachelorettes just walked in the door". And quickly transform into a > discussion of whether or not it is morally reprehensible to use a > Mallory distributor. > > It's a good thing. > > And of course we have the power. All we have to do is universally > agree on something. I'm not holding my breath. > > On Sep 22, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Ernest Husmann wrote: > > > It's amazing how these threads get off the subject so quickly. > > This one started Thursday morning with Alan asking for advice on > > TR6 gearboxes but quickly turn to a discussion related to rules > > regarding car prep. It's fine for a short time but we're not going > > to change the rules on the FoT mail list; at least I don't think we > > have that much power? > > > > Enjoy, > > > > E. > > > > PS. Would that be 5th gear, 4th gear overdrive, or are we now > > running 6-speeds? Hey I'm not a purist. > > > > "Jack W. Drews" wrote: > > No, we're just shifting into high gear........... > > > > At 11:49 AM 9/22/2007, Ernest Husmann wrote: > > >Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? > > > > > > > > >Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > > ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad > > range of > > >racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own > > interpretation of > > >"vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & > > their job is > > >to keep everybody happy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's new at http:// > > www.aol.com > > >ehusmann53 at yahoo.com > > >Fot mailing list > > >Fot at autox.team.net > > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. > > >_______________________________________________ > > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net > > >Fot mailing list > > >Fot at autox.team.net > > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > uncle jack > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > > No Virus Found In This Message > > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > > > > > > Got a little couch potato? > > Check out fun summer activities for kids. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > mlcooknj at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Robertten1 at aol.com Sat Sep 22 23:14:59 2007 From: Robertten1 at aol.com (Robertten1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 01:14:59 EDT Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser failures Message-ID: Amici, This is an old topic and I feel a need to confirm what the Mallory site is suggesting. I had a bit of a discussion with a friend of mine whom is a electronics wizard, by trade. He said the first fault of any condensor failure would be due to a poor ground or lack of. My inquiry was brought about over the decision to go back to a points type ignition, that being a Mallory unit. After hearing Lang's problem of one condensor failure after another with his Mallory I became conserned with going from one problematic ignition system to another. I converted anyways, bought a couple extra condensors but, have had no problems what-so-ever with my Mallory. Several inspections and several tests with a dwell meter have shown a very reliable system. I'm also using a MSD Soft-touch Rev-limiter which has proven a reliable compliment to the Mallory. To sum it up ... Good Grounding !! add an extra as the Mallory site recommends. Bob T. '64 Spit GT autocrosser PS my Mallory is 6 yrs old ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sun Sep 23 02:43:51 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 03:43:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Re: gearbox legality Message-ID: <200709230844.l8N8iBdN359396@ns3.geneseo.net> >Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 03:38:24 -0500 >To: Ernest Husmann >From: "Jack W. Drews" >Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > >I agree that the subject was well thrashed, but at least it was on a >subject this list was intended for, instead of some of the subjects >discussed ad nauseum that really should be on the "big" Triumph >list. It provided some emails good for forwarding to VSCDA officers >who don't monitor these lists. One could argue that installing a >different transmission for better reliability is no different than >installing a Mallory distributor, the only purpose of which is to >replace Lucas stuff. Hey, all Lucas pieces can be made to work for a >little while. > >Ditto Southwick axles. We could force everybody to replace rear >axles every third race, just like Kastner did, to keep from rolling >over. His cars were pretty reliable doing things like that. Why >can't we do the same thing? If a car a year rolls over and nobody is >hurt, is it a small price to pay for authenticity? > >At 06:35 PM 9/22/2007, you wrote: >>It's amazing how these threads get off the subject so quickly. > >uncle jack uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From Fubog1 at aol.com Sun Sep 23 04:16:27 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 06:16:27 EDT Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: In a message dated 9/22/2007 8:17:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door" I'm having trouble with the mental image but it has a nice ring to it... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From tlizzard at msn.com Sun Sep 23 08:03:30 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:03:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality References: Message-ID: As long as the calibre is not too large its all good... Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: Fubog1 at aol.com To: billb at bnj.com ; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 6:16 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality In a message dated 9/22/2007 8:17:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door" I'm having trouble with the mental image but it has a nice ring to it... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Sun Sep 23 08:13:03 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:13:03 EDT Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality diverted to bob thread Message-ID: "bandolier of bachelorettes" well to take this one a step further...it just begs the question... are they on stripper clips??? Glen sorry but somebody HAD to ask... In a message dated 9/23/2007 10:03:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tlizzard at msn.com writes: As long as the calibre is not too large its all good... Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: _Fubog1 at aol.com_ (mailto:Fubog1 at aol.com) To: _billb at bnj.com_ (mailto:billb at bnj.com) ; _ehusmann53 at yahoo.com_ (mailto:ehusmann53 at yahoo.com) Cc: _fot at autox.team.net_ (mailto:fot at autox.team.net) Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 6:16 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality In a message dated 9/22/2007 8:17:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, _billb at bnj.com_ (mailto:billb at bnj.com) writes: "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door" I'm having trouble with the mental image but it has a nice ring to it... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 23 09:20:22 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:20:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Message-ID: FoT, I am looking for someone to write a progressive series of 'press releases' over the next 10 months...about three should do it. This event has some real magic associated with it. We are not as organized at the MG guys, but we can still look good. Ideally, the writer of the press release will also be an attendee. Thanks, Joe Alexander From JWoesvra at aol.com Sun Sep 23 09:33:27 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:33:27 EDT Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Message-ID: In a message dated 9/23/2007 11:20:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N197TR4 at cs.com writes: FoT, I am looking for someone to write a progressive series of 'press releases' over the next 10 months...about three should do it. This event has some real magic associated with it. We are not as organized at the MG guys, but we can still look good. Ideally, the writer of the press release will also be an attendee. Thanks, Joe Alexander Take a look at the Elva reunion release that we just posted. _http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/weblinks/EJEN-77AJFT?OpenDocument_ (http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/weblinks/EJEN-77AJFT?OpenDocument) You might also look at the press releases that MGVR guys do. To: Friends of MGVR MG Vintage Racers Press Release ************************************ Vintage Collier Cup MG Race FIVE MGs Win Awards It all began in 1985 with SVRA's Collier Cup race for MGs at their Zippo Vintage Grand Prix, and it has steadily gathered momentum over the years. At first there was only the "Collier Cup" award for this race, which gets awarded to a MG racer in the race - voted by the MG racers there - as best representing the MG vintage racing spirit. Then came the "Denver Cornett Jr. Trophy" for the first overall MG in the race, and the "T Cup" for the first place T series MG in the race. NAMGAR later added the "Bucher-Decker Trophy" for the first MGA. And now to round out the awards, this year the MG Car Club - Western New York Center added the "Bill Glanville Memorial Cup" for the first MG Midget in the race. And Bill's widow Suzanne made its inaugural presentation. This is just a reflection of how popular this race has grown over 22 years. And although this year's event didn't see the best weather, that didn't slow down the MG enthusiasm and racing. 37 MGs of all types showed up to have a go of it this September at Watkins Glen, and when the checkered flag fell the honors went to the following MG racers: -Collier Cup - Bill Shields, Pa, MGB -Denver Cornett Jr. Trophy - John Targett, Oh, MGB -T Cup - Jeff Brown, Pa, MGTD -Bucher-Decker Trophy - Joe Tierno, N.Y., MGA -Bill Glanville Memorial Cup - Gregg Kuzuhowski, N.J., MG Midget John commented on receiving his trophy "I had an emotional reaction to receiving Denver's Cup. For some reason he repeatedly use to say that he wanted me to win his trophy" (Denver passed away in 2006). Gregg reflected "I was honored to accept the Glanville trophy". The MGTD that Jeff raced was the former Bob Colaizzi MG that won the first Vintage Collier Cup in 1985. And Joe Tierno's MGA is the same MGA that Bob Bucher won the 1957 Collier Cup with 50 years ago! It just keeps getting better and better! ****************** end For Immediate Release and Publication -Please run this article in your publication -This press release may be edited to meet publisher's needs -Please forward this press release to anyone else who might have interest in it Photo below is of Gregg Kuzuhowski with the Bill Glanville Memorial Cup, ,with Suzanne Glanville, widow of Bill Glanville, next to him. Photo may be used with article as long as photo credit is given: "Pietrowicz Photo". MG Vintage Racers Greg Prehodka Publicity Coordinator September 23, 2007 E-mail: _MGracer53 at aol.com_ (mailto:MGracer53 at aol.com) MGVR on the web: MGVR.org ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 23 09:47:05 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:47:05 EDT Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Message-ID: Thanks Jack!....great resource material. > In a message dated 9/23/2007 11:20:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > N197TR4 at cs.com writes: > > >> FoT, >> >> I am looking for someone to write a progressive series of 'press releases' >> over the next 10 months...about three should do it. >> >> This event has some real magic associated with it. >> >> We are not as organized at the MG guys, but we can still look good. >> >> Ideally, the writer of the press release will also be an attendee. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Joe Alexander > > > Take a look at the Elva reunion release that we just posted. > > http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/weblinks/EJEN-77AJFT?OpenDocument > > You might also look at the press releases that MGVR guys do. > > To: Friends of MGVR > > MG Vintage Racers > Press Release > > ************************************ > > Vintage Collier Cup MG Race > FIVE MGs Win Awards > > It all began in 1985 with SVRA's Collier Cup race for MGs at their Zippo > Vintage Grand Prix, and it has steadily gathered momentum over the years. > At first there was only the "Collier Cup" award for this race, which gets > awarded to a MG racer in the race - voted by the MG racers there - as best > representing the MG vintage racing spirit. Then came the "Denver Cornett Jr. Trophy > " for the first overall MG in the race, and the "T Cup" for the first place > T series MG in the race. NAMGAR later added the "Bucher-Decker Trophy" for > the first MGA. And now to round out the awards, this year the MG Car Club - > Western New York Center added the "Bill Glanville Memorial Cup" for the first > MG Midget in the race. And Bill's widow Suzanne made its inaugural > presentation. This is just a reflection of how popular this race has grown over 22 > years. And although this year's event didn't see the best weather, that didn't > slow down the MG enthusiasm and racing. 37 MGs of all types showed up to > have a go of it this September at Watkins Glen, and when the checkered flag > fell the honors went to the following MG racers: > > -Collier Cup - Bill Shields, Pa, MGB > -Denver Cornett Jr. Trophy - John Targett, Oh, MGB > -T Cup - Jeff Brown, Pa, MGTD > -Bucher-Decker Trophy - Joe Tierno, N.Y., MGA > -Bill Glanville Memorial Cup - Gregg Kuzuhowski, N.J., MG Midget > > John commented on receiving his trophy "I had an emotional reaction to > receiving Denver's Cup. For some reason he repeatedly use to say that he wanted > me to win his trophy" (Denver passed away in 2006). Gregg reflected "I was > honored to accept the Glanville trophy". The MGTD that Jeff raced was the > former Bob Colaizzi MG that won the first Vintage Collier Cup in 1985. And Joe > Tierno's MGA is the same MGA that Bob Bucher won the 1957 Collier Cup with > 50 years ago! It just keeps getting better and better! > > ****************** end > > > For Immediate Release and Publication > -Please run this article in your publication > -This press release may be edited to meet publisher's needs > -Please forward this press release to anyone else who might have interest in > it > > Photo below is of Gregg Kuzuhowski with the Bill Glanville Memorial Cup, > ,with Suzanne Glanville, widow of Bill Glanville, next to him. Photo may be > used with article as long as photo credit is given: "Pietrowicz Photo". > > > > From Cofrog at aol.com Sun Sep 23 10:20:43 2007 From: Cofrog at aol.com (Cofrog at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:20:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers Message-ID: I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange thickness on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake manifold flange where both mount to the head. Some tabs have been welded to the flange of the header where the mounting points are to accommodate the thickness discrepancy But I am experiencing cracks in the intake manifold and blame this on the above. I did some track time last week to test a new motor and another intake manifold crack appeared. I have applied some JB Weld to it and loosened the mounting hardware by it. Hoping this "fix" will hold for the RMVR event nest weekend. Any input? Has anyone had any experience with the headers that the big three sell? Or does anyone have a good set of headers that they want to sell? Thanks, Dan Forgey ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 23 10:33:53 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:33:53 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers References: Message-ID: <001001c7fdff$95868f60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Dan, My first car had a setup like this. It used standard wing spacers (or whatever they are called) with weld added on one side. That worked fine, but it was a short runner intake. You have probably already addressed this but just in case; the problem of cracking usually shows up with the use of the long runner intake without support on the bottom like the original exhaust manifold. You see some pretty creative gussets out there. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 11:20 AM Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers >I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange thickness > on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake > manifold flange where both mount to the head. Some tabs have been welded > to the > flange of the header where the mounting points are to accommodate the > thickness > discrepancy But I am experiencing cracks in the intake manifold and > blame > this on the above. > > I did some track time last week to test a new motor and another intake > manifold crack appeared. I have applied some JB Weld to it and loosened > the > mounting hardware by it. Hoping this "fix" will hold for the RMVR event > nest > weekend. Any input? > > Has anyone had any experience with the headers that the big three sell? > Or > does anyone have a good set of headers that they want to sell? > > Thanks, > > Dan Forgey > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jhassall at blacksburg.net Sun Sep 23 10:36:34 2007 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:36:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46F69612.5050804@blacksburg.net> Cofrog at aol.com wrote: > I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange thickness > on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake > manifold flange where both mount to the head. Some tabs have been welded to the > flange of the header where the mounting points are to accommodate the thickness > discrepancy But I am experiencing cracks in the intake manifold and blame > this on the above. > > I did some track time last week to test a new motor and another intake > manifold crack appeared. I have applied some JB Weld to it and loosened the > mounting hardware by it. Hoping this "fix" will hold for the RMVR event nest > weekend. Any input? > > Has anyone had any experience with the headers that the big three sell? Or > does anyone have a good set of headers that they want to sell? Dan, I bought TRF's tubular headers years ago and HATE them. Shoddy workmanship, leaky welds, flange thickness half that of the intake (as you noted), gross mounting hole mismatches, the list goes on. I didn't discover the problems until long after TRF would accept them back, so I bit the bullet. In retrospect, they should have gone 1) to metal recyclers or 2) ebay. I worked around the flange thickness problem by welding a block of steel to the exhaust stud clamps, so I *think* I have uniform pressure on each side. Time will tell.... hth jim -- J.C. Hassall Blacksburg VA 64 TR4 in autox preparation 95% finished, 90% to go From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 23 13:07:43 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 14:07:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c7fe15$05c826c0$8d20b348@blake1> Try Stahl. http://www.stahlheaders.com/ When I was asking around about 6 months ago, some on the list recommended them. My project has stalled somewhat so I have not purchased yet. I am still looking also if anyone has a set to sell. Thanks, Greg -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Cofrog at aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 11:21 AM To: FOT at Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange thickness on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake manifold flange where both mount to the head. Some tabs have been welded to the flange of the header where the mounting points are to accommodate the thickness discrepancy But I am experiencing cracks in the intake manifold and blame this on the above. I did some track time last week to test a new motor and another intake manifold crack appeared. I have applied some JB Weld to it and loosened the mounting hardware by it. Hoping this "fix" will hold for the RMVR event nest weekend. Any input? Has anyone had any experience with the headers that the big three sell? Or does anyone have a good set of headers that they want to sell? Thanks, Dan Forgey ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ablake2 at austin.rr.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Sun Sep 23 13:40:56 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:40:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers Message-ID: In a message dated 9/23/2007 12:21:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Cofrog at aol.com writes: Has anyone had any experience with the headers that the big three sell? Or does anyone have a good set of headers that they want to sell? Ken Gillanders BFE headers work well, last a long time, & are a bit pricey, but well worth it in the long run. Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From emanteno at comcast.net Sun Sep 23 14:40:40 2007 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:40:40 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers Message-ID: <092320072040.3702.46F6CF4800088CA300000E762205886014970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: Cofrog at aol.com > I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange thickness > on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake > manifold flange where both mount to the head. I bought a set of headers from Ken at BFE in 98, and it and my (reinforced) intake manifold have been trouble free since. The headers fit great, requiring no diddling to install. The (long runner) intake manifold is reinforced on the top of each runner, and has never shown any sign of trouble. NFI, Irv Korey From Robertten1 at aol.com Sun Sep 23 14:49:20 2007 From: Robertten1 at aol.com (Robertten1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:49:20 EDT Subject: [Fot] Why MEN don't Write Advice Columns Message-ID: ____________________________________ >>>> Subject: WHY MEN DO NOT WRITE ADVICE COLUMNS >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dear Walter: >>>>> I hope you can help me here. The other day I set off for work leaving >>>>> my husband in the house watching the TV as usual. I hadn't gone more than >>>>> a few hundred yards down the road when my engine conked out and the car >>>> shuddered to a halt. I walked back home to get my husband's help. When I got >>>>> home I couldn't believe my eyes. He was parading in front of the wardrobe >>>>> mirror dressed in my underwear and high-heel shoes, and he was wearing my >>>>> make up. >>>>> I am 32, my husband is 34 and we have been married for twelve years. >>>>> When I confronted him, he tried to make out that he had dressed in my >>>>> lingerie because he couldn't find his own underwear. But when I asked him about >>>>> the make up, he broke down and admitted that he'd been wearing my clothes >>>>> for six months. I told him to stop or I would leave him. He was let go >>>>> from his job six months ago and he says he has been feeling increasingly >>>>> depressed and worthless. I love him very much, but ever since I gave him the >>>> ultimatum he has become increasingly distant. I don't feel I can get through to >>>>> him anymore. Can you please help? >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Mrs. Lusk >>>>> >>>>> Dear Mrs. Lusk: >>>>> A car stalling after being driven a short distance can be caused by a >>>>> variety of faults with the engine. Start by checkin g that there is no >>>> debris in the fuel line. If it is clear, check the jubilee clips holding the >>>> vacuum pipes onto the inlet manifold. If none of these approaches solves the >>>>> problem, it could be that the fuel pump itself is faulty, causing low >>>>> delivery pressure to the carburetor float chamber. I hope this helps. >>>>> Walter ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From kaskas at cox.net Sun Sep 23 15:32:37 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 14:32:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers References: <092320072040.3702.46F6CF4800088CA300000E762205886014970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <008001c7fe29$432ec000$5717c548@RW> When fitting the long tube inlet manifold it pays to also fab up a bracket that runs between the two carb flanges and a support post that fits down to the cylinder block. This is pretty easy to make up with a piece of 3/8" or 1/2" steel tube and welded or bolted to the sheet metal fabricated cross piece that connects the bottom of the two carb flanges. Clear as mud? Well anyway, I did this trick and it saves the manifold and is also a good idea when fitting the Weber carbs as you can then the weight off the manifolds. The steel tube can be bolted up to a steel tab held by the pan bolts. It works pretty well. It must of course be custom made as each header is different and you need to clear for access to the cylinder block side. Having a threaded end allows you to adjust the brace to pick up the carb weight onto the brace/block. Most times the brace cannot be taken straight down to the block but must be off to the side some to clear the headers.There are several way to do this, and the manifolds really appreciate the help. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 Headers > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: Cofrog at aol.com > >> I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange >> thickness >> on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake >> manifold flange where both mount to the head. > > I bought a set of headers from Ken at BFE in 98, and it and my > (reinforced) intake manifold have been trouble free since. The headers fit > great, requiring no diddling to install. The (long runner) intake manifold > is reinforced on the top of each runner, and has never shown any sign of > trouble. > NFI, > Irv Korey > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From trhouse at greenapple.com Sun Sep 23 18:38:22 2007 From: trhouse at greenapple.com (Tom Householder) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:38:22 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Mike Fatsi Message-ID: Any one got current Contact info for Mike. he races out of Virginia From dave at microworks.net Sun Sep 23 18:52:16 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 17:52:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stupid poll response Message-ID: <20070924005530.MHWU23261.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> If results on a poll on the ITV-F1 page continue like they are you can certainly discount the knowledge of the VAST majority of it's readers. The question is "Would F1 drivers benefit from professional coaching?" Current votes are: 6 for Yes (35.29%), 9 for No (52.94%) and 2 for Not Sure (11.76%). That means the 64.7% of the participants of that poll couldn't find their own ass with both hands. http://www.itv-f1.com What is also funny/ironic is that the top aticle on the site is Sir Jackie saying how stupid it is that so few F1 Drivers utilize a coach. http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40779 Top Gear had a recent episode featuring Sir Jackie coaching James May around Oulton Park (in a TVR) and bettering his time by 20 sec. I grabbed that video off You Tube and used it in my DE1 class presentation at Phoenix International yesterday. http://youtube.com/watch?v=roCFoKaUf1A What would you pay to have Sir Jackie coach you? Anyone want to buy my first board to fund my lesson with him? HeHe... From billsohl at optonline.net Sun Sep 23 19:42:10 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:42:10 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I nominate Mike Cook for the task...if he is up to it. Mike is an FOT lister and his PR/Marketing professional skills I'm sure would greatly enhance the media distribution. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 11:20 AM Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" > FoT, > > I am looking for someone to write a progressive series of 'press releases' > over the next 10 months...about three should do it. > > This event has some real magic associated with it. > > We are not as organized at the MG guys, but we can still look good. > > Ideally, the writer of the press release will also be an attendee. > > Thanks, > > Joe Alexander > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billsohl at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 23 20:45:00 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:45:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Message-ID: Bill, Thanks for volunteering Mike. :-) Particularly, since no one else has stepped forward, this would be delightful. He certainly is qualified, and the fact that he owns a few TR3A Driven Trophies from the Glen, it certainly enhances his position. I'll supply most of the information, if he will craft them into something cogent. Joe Alexander P.S. The next guy we will be looking for, is "Shirt Man". > I nominate Mike Cook for the task...if he is up to it. > Mike is an FOT lister and his PR/Marketing professional skills > I'm sure would greatly enhance the media distribution. > > Cheers, > Bill > From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 23 21:10:12 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:10:12 EDT Subject: [Fot] SPONSOR(S) WANTED FOR THE FOT TRIUMPH RACE AT THE GLEN Message-ID: Looking for one major sponsor for the stand alone Triumph Race at the Glen in 2008. Or a couple non-competing business Sponsors. The money will go entirely to the FoT. The money will be used for paying expenses (more like defraying expenses). I refuse to collect donations any longer. (It's like taking in laundry for free, with lots of complaints about the service. Embarrassing and Thankless) Your Business Name(s) will be included in all press releases and SVRA documentation, not to mention all stories submitted for publication. You know, something like, "The BFE Triumph Grand Prix". Or "The Classic Motorsport Triumph Challenge". If you want to discuss it, contact me. Remember, if you step forward now, you get about 10-11 months of advertising mileage out of it. And, I dont want to hear from anyone.....that I didnt ask. Joe Alexander N197tr4 at cs.com From tony at tonydrews.com Sun Sep 23 22:22:36 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:22:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions In-Reply-To: <000401c7fd53$09c33750$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> References: <000401c7fd53$09c33750$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Message-ID: <20070924042328.27F941879D7@autox.team.net> A bunch of the TRactor motor folks run the NGK BP7HS with good success. Normally gapped to something like 0.030" but may work OK at 0.050" as MSD suggests. I have similar compression (different cam, carbs, and ignition though) and they work well for me. We've used them with many different cams and several carbs - Strombergs, SU's and Webers. - Tony Drews At 02:59 PM 9/22/2007, James Gray wrote: >Can anyone suggest a good plug for my car ? I'm just short of 11:1 >compresson, MSD 7AL-2 ignition, MSD HVC-2 coil >D spec cam & stock strombergs. >MSD suggests .050 gap for this set up & CR regardless of the plug type. >Does this sound right ? >Thanks again, >Jim Gray From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 24 06:37:34 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 08:37:34 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions Message-ID: > A bunch of the TRactor motor folks run the NGK BP7HS with good > success. Normally gapped to something like 0.030" but may work OK at > 0.050" as MSD suggests. I have similar compression (different cam, > carbs, and ignition though) and they work well for me. We've used > them with many different cams and several carbs - Strombergs, SU's and > Webers. > > - Tony Drews > I went to a NAPA store expecting to order these plugs. It turned out that it is a common plug used in GOLF CARS. FORE! From billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 24 07:31:18 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:31:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions In-Reply-To: <20070924042328.27F941879D7@autox.team.net> References: <000401c7fd53$09c33750$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> <20070924042328.27F941879D7@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <098DE802-0030-44C9-8FD0-36824F715904@bnj.com> As Tony says, BP7HS is a fine plug and it's NGK, which is good for me because it's one of the few plug nomenclatures I understand. If they look a little hot to you when you read them you can go half a heat range colder to B7HC (hard to get, try a motorcycle shop) or if you foul them try half a heat range hotter B6HC. You can also use the Iridium or Platinum equivalent. I think the platinum is BP7HV. The higher voltage your ignition is running enables you to run .050" and you do want as wide a plug gap as your system can handle, so that should be fine. On Sep 24, 2007, at 12:22 AM, Tony Drews wrote: > A bunch of the TRactor motor folks run the NGK BP7HS with good > success. Normally gapped to something like 0.030" but may work OK at > 0.050" as MSD suggests. I have similar compression (different cam, > carbs, and ignition though) and they work well for me. We've used > them with many different cams and several carbs - Strombergs, SU's > and Webers. > > - Tony Drews > > At 02:59 PM 9/22/2007, James Gray wrote: >> Can anyone suggest a good plug for my car ? I'm just short of 11:1 >> compresson, MSD 7AL-2 ignition, MSD HVC-2 coil >> D spec cam & stock strombergs. >> MSD suggests .050 gap for this set up & CR regardless of the plug >> type. >> Does this sound right ? >> Thanks again, >> Jim Gray > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Mon Sep 24 07:36:37 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:36:37 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Amphicar wanted Message-ID: <006501c7feaf$f00eeb70$1342a8c0@semperon3400> And now for something completely different. Is there anyone on these lists having an Amphicar they're willing to part with? I know at least one/two of us that has one in custody! The phone is a Connecticut exchange... Not me, I know nothing more! WANTED: Amphicar Amphibious vehicle, any year or condition except restored. (860)668-7716 Clark Clark W. Nicholls "Reality... It's not what you think." From mlcooknj at msn.com Mon Sep 24 08:11:43 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:11:43 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Message-ID: Thanks a lot Bill! :-) Hey, I appreciate the recognition but let's not go overboard here. I am over-committed on regular work so I need to think about this. Joe, let's you and I talk separately about what you have in mind. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:45 PM To: billsohl at optonline.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Bill, Thanks for volunteering Mike. :-) Particularly, since no one else has stepped forward, this would be delightful. He certainly is qualified, and the fact that he owns a few TR3A Driven Trophies from the Glen, it certainly enhances his position. I'll supply most of the information, if he will craft them into something cogent. Joe Alexander P.S. The next guy we will be looking for, is "Shirt Man". > I nominate Mike Cook for the task...if he is up to it. > Mike is an FOT lister and his PR/Marketing professional skills > I'm sure would greatly enhance the media distribution. > > Cheers, > Bill > mlcooknj at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 24 08:20:08 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:20:08 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's also a common motorcycle plug for two stroke Yamahas (which aren't that common anymore--I don't remember the last time I saw a ring-ding on the street) though it's usually in B7HS guise. BP is projected tip, which runs a little hotter than standard tip. Each full step down in heat range changes the tip temperature about 100 degrees C. Half a heat range step is about 50 degrees C (gee, really?) and projected tip is about 20 degrees hotter than non- projected. The ideal temperature band is about 100 degrees wide, though permissible operation is from 500 to 850 degree C. No way for us amateurs to measure tip temperature other than staring at plugs, but you can tell a lot from that if you do a clean plug chop. The Champion spark plug guru, Bobby whatshisname could tell you what you had for dinner from your plugs. We motorcycle racers used to run Champions just so he would look at our plugs. Pulling plugs from a motor that made it's way back to the paddock is OK for determining you're in the ballpark for heat range, but ineffective for determining mixture. You want to se a clean white tip with just a little coloration of the porcelain, no blistering, and the metal bits need to have retained their sharpness--that happens at about 750-800C. The porcelain starts looking blistered at 850C and the metal starts losing it's sharp edges (melting) at 900C. Unless you have an Iridium plug, which is just fine at over 1000C. If your engine is pumping oil or your mixture is very rich you'll never see that temperature regardless of the heat range. Assuming everything is in the ballpark then once you have established the heat range that's best for you, you can start adjusting your mixture by reading the base of the insulator. That's why the serious tuners use lighted magnifying glasses to look at plugs. You want to look at the circle of insulator at the bottom, and what you want is light brown color after you have driven the car with the throttle setting you're testing (usually WFO) as much as you can. When you get close to the hot pit entrance, you flip off the ignition at full throttle, push in the clutch and coast to the pit wall where your expert crew chief awaits. Or if you're like me, you crawl out and look at the plugs yourself, my crew consists of Sam the Gay Dog--Diane now signs in as "Personal Chef" on my crew sheet. Oh, incidentally, the Iridium plugs for TR3/4 race cars are BPR7HIX. You should be able to order these. Expensive, but they have the interesting virtue of lasting almost forever. You can probably use them for ten years of racing with no change in performance. Just don't put them in a motor that's way too rich or oiling heavily. They are magic for weak ignitions--you can run them with a dinky gap and they won't foul because the electrodes are so skinny. On Sep 24, 2007, at 8:37 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: >> A bunch of the TRactor motor folks run the NGK BP7HS with good >> success. Normally gapped to something like 0.030" but may work OK at >> 0.050" as MSD suggests. I have similar compression (different cam, >> carbs, and ignition though) and they work well for me. We've used >> them with many different cams and several carbs - Strombergs, SU's >> and >> Webers. >> >> - Tony Drews >> > I went to a NAPA store expecting to order these plugs. It turned > out that it > is a common plug used in GOLF CARS. FORE! > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From hottr6 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 24 10:01:53 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:01:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Shipping cars Message-ID: Amici, For those of us that have to transport cars long-distances, I thought I would relate my experiences in shipping Rags from Maryland to New Mexico. I do not have a trailer or a tow rig, so had to use a company to ship cars. I insisted on a enclosed trailer (having been burnt previously when I shipped my Pantera on an open transport across the Rockies in Winter and a snow storm, and the transporter left the drivers window down). I requested several quotes and decided to go with Fedex Custom Critical (yeah, Fedex ships cars!). There were penalties for having a non-running car, so the cost came to about $2K. But this was not door-to-door. The rig is 85' long and could not negotiate the narrow streets near the DC-MD border where I lived, so I had to flatbed the car to meet the truck. At the other end, the rig would get stuck in the canyon I am in, so I am renting a storage unit and Rags is living there for the time being. As stated, the rig was huge. Dennis, the driver, was a petrol-head and loves cars. The trailer with all its hydraulics and bluetooth enabled ramps/jacks etc alone cost $160K. Very impressive. Got the car loaded. 6 days later, it arrives absolutely unmarked and spotless. Even though I drained the fluids from Rags, it of course had to leave its mark in the rig, but all the car spaces in the rig had oil collection places so no harm done. All in all, a great experience. I would highly recommend Fedex Custom Critical should you ever need to ship your pride and joy. Shane Ingate in New Mexico _________________________________________________________________ Its the Windows Live Hotmail. you love  on your phone! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/mobilehotmail/default.mspx?WT.mc_ID=MobileHMTagline2 From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Sep 24 10:15:09 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:15:09 EDT Subject: [Fot] Shipping cars Message-ID: Amici... I think I know where that came from. FedEx bought PASSPORT TRANSPORT, previously started and owned by Bob Pass, who was a very active vintage racer years ago. I think he was even a part owner of SVRA at one time. I remember he had a cute daughter who worked the SVRA registration counter. His headquarters was in St. Louis, and he was instrumental in several Joe Marchetti events being held at the old Gateway circuit (named the GATEWAY HISTORICS at the time). Neat events, but the headquarters hotel (where a concourse was held and Ole Blue won a trophy) was 45 minutes away from the track. A great hotel, in a neat area, but too far from the track. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Sep 24 10:47:33 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:47:33 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Shipping cars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2BCD71E6-962B-4184-A5D6-CE9CF8D9DBEC@earthlink.net> Welcome to N.M. Shane [and Rags]. Hope you'll make Southwest Motorsport [swms.org] your new home club. We are having our last event of the season October 12th-14th. Redcoats on the Rio Grande will feature a All British race on Saturday. Come on out and say Hi and bring Rags if it's ready. Again, welcome to New Mexico - The Land of Entrapment. I'll look forward to meeting you some time soon. Greg Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 24, 2007, at 10:01 AM, Shane Ingate wrote: > Amici, > > For those of us that have to transport cars long-distances, I > thought I > would relate my experiences in shipping Rags from Maryland to New > Mexico. > > I do not have a trailer or a tow rig, so had to use a company to > ship cars. > I insisted on a enclosed trailer (having been burnt previously when I > shipped my Pantera on an open transport across the Rockies in > Winter and a > snow storm, and the transporter left the drivers window down). I > requested > several quotes and decided to go with Fedex Custom Critical (yeah, > Fedex > ships cars!). There were penalties for having a non-running car, > so the > cost came to about $2K. > > But this was not door-to-door. The rig is 85' long and could not > negotiate > the narrow streets near the DC-MD border where I lived, so I had to > flatbed > the car to meet the truck. At the other end, the rig would get > stuck in the > canyon I am in, so I am renting a storage unit and Rags is living > there for > the time being. > > As stated, the rig was huge. Dennis, the driver, was a petrol-head > and > loves cars. The trailer with all its hydraulics and bluetooth enabled > ramps/jacks etc alone cost $160K. Very impressive. Got the car > loaded. 6 > days later, it arrives absolutely unmarked and spotless. Even > though I > drained the fluids from Rags, it of course had to leave its mark in > the rig, > but all the car spaces in the rig had oil collection places so no > harm done. > > All in all, a great experience. I would highly recommend Fedex Custom > Critical should you ever need to ship your pride and joy. > > Shane Ingate in New Mexico > > _________________________________________________________________ > Its the Windows Live Hotmail. you love  on your phone! > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/mobilehotmail/default.mspx? > WT.mc_ID=MobileHMTagline2 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > lunkercars at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Sep 24 10:54:28 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:54:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Shipping cars References: Message-ID: <000d01c7fecb$92947ed0$0501000a@Chowdown> I used Fedex (custom critical) formerly passport, to ship my TR3 from Toledo to Glendale, CA. 2500 bucks, skilled drivers and it only took about 4 days. The Triumph was too narrow for their open transporter which would have cost half the price. Also, we put a few extra cyl heads in the car and some various other spares. They have GPS and are always glad to tell you exactly where your car is currently located on the map. It wasn't cheap but good to go with an insured and bonded company to ship my TR. After 40 years of open trailering, the car deserved a nice ride. Unfortunately it cost almost as much to ship the spare engine, trans, diff, and all the other goodies seperately through Yellow Freight. ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Shipping cars > Amici... > > I think I know where that came from. FedEx bought PASSPORT TRANSPORT, > previously started and owned by Bob Pass, who was a very active vintage > racer years > ago. I think he was even a part owner of SVRA at one time. I remember he > had > a cute daughter who worked the SVRA registration counter. His > headquarters > was in St. Louis, and he was instrumental in several Joe Marchetti events > being > held at the old Gateway circuit (named the GATEWAY HISTORICS at the time). > Neat events, but the headquarters hotel (where a concourse was held and > Ole > Blue won a trophy) was 45 minutes away from the track. A great hotel, in > a neat > area, but too far from the track. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Sep 24 10:59:02 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:59:02 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions References: Message-ID: <002901c7fecc$357f09d0$0501000a@Chowdown> Y'all probably know this but these guys are great: www.sparkplugs.com They even throw in a coupla stickers for your toolbox! ~Steve From REK46 at aol.com Mon Sep 24 11:16:07 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:16:07 EDT Subject: [Fot] TOPEKA Message-ID: Sorry to break the thread,but does anyone have some first hand info on best places to stay in Topeka area, accessible to Heartland Park ...a nice bar and eatery would be a plus.? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From JWoesvra at aol.com Mon Sep 24 12:17:45 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:17:45 EDT Subject: [Fot] Shipping cars Message-ID: In a message dated 9/24/2007 12:02:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hottr6 at hotmail.com writes: I requested several quotes and decided to go with Fedex Custom Critical (yeah, Fedex ships cars!). There were penalties for having a non-running car, so the cost came to about $2K. But this was not door-to-door. The rig is 85' long and could not negotiate the narrow streets near the DC-MD border where I lived, so I had to flatbed the car to meet the truck. At the other end, the rig would get stuck in the canyon I am in, so I am renting a storage unit and Rags is living there for the time being. As stated, the rig was huge. Dennis, the driver, was a petrol-head and loves cars. The trailer with all its hydraulics and bluetooth enabled ramps/jacks etc alone cost $160K. Very impressive. Got the car loaded. 6 days later, it arrives absolutely unmarked and spotless. Even though I drained the fluids from Rags, it of course had to leave its mark in the rig, but all the car spaces in the rig had oil collection places so no harm done. All in all, a great experience. I would highly recommend Fedex Custom Critical should you ever need to ship your pride and joy. The reason FEDEX does such a great job is that they bought out Passport Transport from Robert Pass. It is the same trucks, drivers, etc. just different paint. It may cost a little more, but you certainly don't have to worry. Robert started this industry and FedEx carries on his legacy. No one ever did it better. Jack Woehrle ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From trmarty at hotmail.com Mon Sep 24 18:05:24 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:05:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TOPEKA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I take it your there now? My son Jason is there co-driving a blue 2007 mini cooper s. Number 66 of 166. If you see him stop and introduce yourself as a fellow Fot'r. He probably can suggest something. Marty Sukey > From: REK46 at aol.com > Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:16:07 -0400 > To: colordog.1 at earthlink.net; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] TOPEKA > > Sorry to break the thread,but does anyone have some first hand info on best > places to stay in Topeka area, accessible to Heartland Park ...a nice bar and > eatery would be a plus.? > > > ************************************** > See what's new > at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > trmarty at hotmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _________________________________________________________________ More photos; more messages; more whatever  Get MORE with Windows Live Hotmail.. NOW with 5GB storage. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration _HM_mini_5G_0907 From mini at wi.rr.com Mon Sep 24 20:02:56 2007 From: mini at wi.rr.com (Richard Gehweiler) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:02:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality diverted to bob thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001d01c7ff18$34598b10$6400a8c0@home> Allen, You asked about TR6 gearboxes and you got "bandolier of bachelorettes"! Now look at what you started! Call me about a dog box. Richard Gehweiler mini at wi.rr.com 1.262.894.5460 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+mini=wi.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+mini=wi.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 9:13 AM To: tlizzard at msn.com; billb at bnj.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality diverted to bob thread "bandolier of bachelorettes" well to take this one a step further...it just begs the question... are they on stripper clips??? Glen sorry but somebody HAD to ask... In a message dated 9/23/2007 10:03:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tlizzard at msn.com writes: As long as the calibre is not too large its all good... Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: _Fubog1 at aol.com_ (mailto:Fubog1 at aol.com) To: _billb at bnj.com_ (mailto:billb at bnj.com) ; _ehusmann53 at yahoo.com_ (mailto:ehusmann53 at yahoo.com) Cc: _fot at autox.team.net_ (mailto:fot at autox.team.net) Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 6:16 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality In a message dated 9/22/2007 8:17:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, _billb at bnj.com_ (mailto:billb at bnj.com) writes: "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door" I'm having trouble with the mental image but it has a nice ring to it... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com mini at wi.rr.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu Mon Sep 24 21:02:17 2007 From: jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu (jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 23:02:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TOPEKA Message-ID: <380-2200792253217444@M2W022.mail2web.com> I'm writing this from the AmeriSuites in Topeka, 6021 SW 6th Street (785) 273-0066 about 20 minutes from the track- it's a pretty nice place, free breakfast, clean rooms with a little kitchen, cold AC, and internet access for no extra charge. I would NOT recommend the ValuePlace thats just a few minutes closer, 1801 SW Westport Road. We had reservations for ValuePlace that were canceled on us less than 24 hours prior to our trip because they "overbooked". As far as eating and drinking...there are many choices within just a few minutes of the hotel here, it's in a very built up area. We've only been to the Longhorn steak house so far, which was very good for a chain type place, I've also heard that O'Doolys pub and grill is very good although I have not been there YET. We are here for the SCCA Solo nationals, so far I've only seen one FOT here. I talked with Bob Lang (EP Ford Focus) for a few minutes at the Sunday test N tune. The MINI felt good for the Sunday test n tune, although today we realized that there were some issues with the freshly installed Koni's and the rears may not have been damping as they should have. We pulled them off the car today, and with a little help from Lee, the Koni guy, we were able to fix them so we should have a completely different and unfamiliar car for our competition days (Thursday and Friday). Unfortunately, I have yet to see a single Triumph here, just FOT guys competing in Non-Triumphs. Jason Sukey Original Message: ----------------- From: marty sukey trmarty at hotmail.com Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:05:24 -0400 To: rek46 at aol.com, colordog.1 at earthlink.net, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] TOPEKA I take it your there now? My son Jason is there co-driving a blue 2007 mini cooper s. Number 66 of 166. If you see him stop and introduce yourself as a fellow Fot'r. He probably can suggest something. Marty Sukey > From: REK46 at aol.com > Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:16:07 -0400 > To: colordog.1 at earthlink.net; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] TOPEKA > > Sorry to break the thread,but does anyone have some first hand info on best > places to stay in Topeka area, accessible to Heartland Park ...a nice bar and > eatery would be a plus.? > > > ************************************** > See what's new > at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > trmarty at hotmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _________________________________________________________________ More photos; more messages; more whatever  Get MORE with Windows Live Hotmail.. NOW with 5GB storage. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio n _HM_mini_5G_0907 jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com  Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft. Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From mini at wi.rr.com Mon Sep 24 21:16:42 2007 From: mini at wi.rr.com (Richard Gehweiler) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:16:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Trailers Message-ID: <002201c7ff22$82acc480$6400a8c0@home> We are looking to upgrade our trailer to something that will haul both Allen Washatko's #6 TR6 and my son's #18 Mini Cooper. We are using our current trailer to haul customer cars for my son Dan's British auto repair business (Yes Ernie another shameless plug for my kid's business) and the trailer is getting down right tired. Any recommendations as to which brands are good and which are not so good? Richard Gehweiler mini at wi.rr.com 1.262.894.5460 From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 24 21:35:43 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:35:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Trailers In-Reply-To: <002201c7ff22$82acc480$6400a8c0@home> References: <002201c7ff22$82acc480$6400a8c0@home> Message-ID: <000601c7ff25$26f8c960$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Here is what I did http://members.cox.net/spitlist/Trailer.htm Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Richard Gehweiler Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:17 PM To: Fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Trailers We are looking to upgrade our trailer to something that will haul both Allen Washatko's #6 TR6 and my son's #18 Mini Cooper. We are using our current trailer to haul customer cars for my son Dan's British auto repair business (Yes Ernie another shameless plug for my kid's business) and the trailer is getting down right tired. Any recommendations as to which brands are good and which are not so good? Richard Gehweiler mini at wi.rr.com 1.262.894.5460 spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Tue Sep 25 07:07:26 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 08:07:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] GT6 calipers? Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747160F2@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Anyone have a pair of good used GT6 calipers they could part with? I'm looking for something I can put on my street GT6. Scott B. From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 25 08:40:24 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:40:24 EDT Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event Message-ID: FoT, We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. I am looking for some additional information: Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if their names and emails are provided. Thanks, Joe Alexander From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 25 08:48:22 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:48:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Shirt Guy for WATKINS GLEN.... and Sponsors? Message-ID: FoT I think we have a "SHIRT GUY" AND A SUPPLIER FOR SHIRTS. This will be announced shortly. I have one or two potential sponsors that are interested enough to step forward and ask questions. The door is still open.... 1. Sponsor for the Kastner Cup Race. 2. Sponsors for Kastner Cup Shirts....if there is any interest we could put company logos on the back of the shirt. Thanks, Joe Alexander From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 25 09:02:09 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 08:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <221185.53374.qm@web57607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Very likely that I will show and be begging a crew pass. Time will tell if I show up with a race car. E. N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT, We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. I am looking for some additional information: Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if their names and emails are provided. Thanks, Joe Alexander ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 25 09:24:25 2007 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 08:24:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] GML at Columbus - Off Topic Message-ID: <650710.1973.qm@web83115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Amici, Earlier this summer, someone wrote of the GML that is going to be held this weekend at Rickebacker airport. Is there anyone from this list going? Thirty years ago this week, I signed in at RAFB and my wife and I decided that it would be a cool reason to go back to the base/airport. I have not yet completely ruled out taking the Spitfire, as it was in that car that we first pulled onto the base. Doug -- dmitchel at sbcglobal.net 1973 Spitfire - 32 years of ownership 1973 Stag From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Tue Sep 25 09:55:26 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:55:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] GT6 body tub Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7471617E@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Hey folks, I have a GT6 body shell that needs a new home. It's a Mk. III (squaretail), Damson in color, in pretty good shape. I can't find any significant rust on it. This bodyshell came from Texas by way of Arizona. I dragged it up here to Wisconsin with the intent of building a GT6 racer, but then Spitfires somehow started breeding like rabbits around me. I also have a GT6 bonnet in slightly less good condition, with some rust around the wheel arches (Midwestern car), but in otherwise decent condition. Scott B. From westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net Tue Sep 25 12:35:39 2007 From: westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net (westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:35:39 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event Message-ID: <092520071835.26558.46F954FB000236C0000067BE2158766755990E04D2069D@att.net> Joe: I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa Racing in Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to the Glen. I need about three other cars to make it very cost effective for transport and a crew. If any one is interested please contact me. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- > FoT, > > We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. > > I am looking for some additional information: > > Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? > > NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. > > Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if their > names and emails are provided. > > Thanks, > > Joe Alexander > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > westerneagleracing at att.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From koblinger at verizon.net Tue Sep 25 13:16:37 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:16:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event Message-ID: <6584549.3884311190747797647.JavaMail.root@vms226.mailsrvcs.net> I am going to register as a definite maybe. I really want to go to the Goodwood Revival next year and it usually falls on the same weekend. Failing that, or maybe in addition, my next choice will be the Glen. I've never been there and this seems like the perfect event. If so I'll be easy to recognize, I'm the one with the permanently attached "funny nose and glasses" combo carrying the big camera bag. Cheers, Kurt (I don't need no steenking lens cap!) Oblinger Various and sundry Triumphs. All disassembled for your closer inspection. >From: N197TR4 at cs.com >Date: 2007/09/25 Tue AM 09:40:24 CDT >To: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event >FoT, > >We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. > >I am looking for some additional information: > >Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? > >NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. > >Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if their >names and emails are provided. > >Thanks, > >Joe Alexander > > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Tue Sep 25 14:34:19 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:34:19 EDT Subject: [Fot] 45 DCOE Aux venturis Message-ID: Amici, Has anyone got some aux venturis for the 45 DCOE's sitting around? I need a half dozen 4.5's and no one has any in stock. Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 25 15:25:55 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:25:55 EDT Subject: [Fot] VSCDA's Fall Finale at MID-OHIO Message-ID: Amici... How many vintage TRIUMPHs plan to run VSCDA's Fall Finale event at MID-OHIO next month (October 12-14th, 2007)? I am aware of Dennis DeLap TR4, Bill Dentinger TR3, Henry Frye TR4, Jeff Snook TR3, Mark Wheatley TR4, and Bob Wismer TR4. There is a TONs and TONs of MGs entered. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From trmarty at hotmail.com Tue Sep 25 16:37:24 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:37:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Probably be a couple of the Sukey's showing up. Put me on the mailing list. Thanks, Marty trmarty at hotmail.com > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:40:24 -0400 > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event > > FoT, > > We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. > > I am looking for some additional information: > > Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? > > NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. > > Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if their > names and emails are provided. > > Thanks, > > Joe Alexander > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > trmarty at hotmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _________________________________________________________________ More photos; more messages; more whatever  Get MORE with Windows Live Hotmail.. NOW with 5GB storage. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration _HM_mini_5G_0907 From tr6nut at verizon.net Tue Sep 25 16:59:52 2007 From: tr6nut at verizon.net (Hugh Barber) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:59:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46F992E8.7030501@verizon.net> I am fairly sure I'll be there sans Triumph. Please add me to the list. Hugh Barber N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT, > > We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. > > I am looking for some additional information: > > Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? From tlizzard at msn.com Tue Sep 25 18:06:14 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:06:14 -0400 Subject: [Fot] GML at Columbus - Off Topic References: <650710.1973.qm@web83115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I will be there. Been looking forward to it for some time. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Mitchell To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: [Fot] GML at Columbus - Off Topic Amici, Earlier this summer, someone wrote of the GML that is going to be held this weekend at Rickebacker airport. Is there anyone from this list going? Thirty years ago this week, I signed in at RAFB and my wife and I decided that it would be a cool reason to go back to the base/airport. I have not yet completely ruled out taking the Spitfire, as it was in that car that we first pulled onto the base. Doug -- dmitchel at sbcglobal.net 1973 Spitfire - 32 years of ownership 1973 Stag _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Tue Sep 25 19:33:38 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:33:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008d01c7ffdd$44bbeb90$1342a8c0@semperon3400> I'll be there as a spy in the MG camp, crewing for my friend's MGTD... Add me to the list! Thanks, Clark W. Nicholls From billsohl at optonline.net Tue Sep 25 21:47:38 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:47:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <98BC34F8ABD6491CB458CE8090315114@SohlPC> Linda and I plan to be there with our TR-3A street car...thinking about entering it in the Downtown Car Show (Friday) or do the Glenora Run with it...and also have it at the track for the "gathering" and hopefully a track tour. I'll help get the word out locally tp the NJ Triumph Club and the Central PA club. Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:40 AM Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event > FoT, > > We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. > > I am looking for some additional information: > > Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than > drivers? > > NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. > > Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if > their > names and emails are provided. > > Thanks, > > Joe Alexander > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billsohl at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jsnook at wcnet.org Wed Sep 26 07:00:42 2007 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:00:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VSCDA's Fall Finale at MID-OHIO References: Message-ID: <008501c8003d$3f6f8f60$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> OK FOTers, we need some help here in Ohio to battle those pesky MGs! Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: BillDentin at aol.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:25 PM Subject: [Fot] VSCDA's Fall Finale at MID-OHIO Amici... How many vintage TRIUMPHs plan to run VSCDA's Fall Finale event at MID-OHIO next month (October 12-14th, 2007)? I am aware of Dennis DeLap TR4, Bill Dentinger TR3, Henry Frye TR4, Jeff Snook TR3, Mark Wheatley TR4, and Bob Wismer TR4. There is a TONs and TONs of MGs entered. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html jsnook_gmi at wcnet.org Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Sep 26 10:10:10 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:10:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] compression and leakdown Message-ID: <200709261610.l8QGAXke254790@ns3.geneseo.net> Has anybody taken compression and / or leakdown tests on a freshly prepared engine and compared them with the engine condition after a season of racing? uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 26 10:41:21 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:41:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] compression and leakdown In-Reply-To: <200709261610.l8QGAXke254790@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200709261610.l8QGAXke254790@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <9A9D2802-8A68-4202-83AD-2775AD5CF84D@bnj.com> I have a lot of compression testing data, I test compression whenever I have the plugs out and write it in my log, but unfortunately I don't have any indication of new engine vs end of season. I suspect leakdown testing would be better data anyway, and now that I have my own leakdown tester in the trailer I'll be gathering that information. On Sep 26, 2007, at 9:10 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote: > Has anybody taken compression and / or leakdown tests on a freshly > prepared engine and compared them with the engine condition after a > season of racing? > > uncle jack > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Wed Sep 26 10:48:20 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:48:20 EDT Subject: [Fot] compression and leakdown Message-ID: In a message dated 9/26/2007 12:11:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, vinttr4 at geneseo.net writes: Has anybody taken compression and / or leakdown tests on a freshly prepared engine and compared them with the engine condition after a season of racing? I try to watch them close. There are many variables re service life but usually the valves will leak before the rings will. Average fresh engine after run-in is usually 2-3%, some less. Once they get into 2 digit numbers I get concerned (race engine). Street engines will leak 30% or more & still run well... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Sep 26 11:29:19 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:29:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: <200709261729.l8QHTgjn260041@ns3.geneseo.net> The "normal" way to do this test is to set the piston at top dead center. But if you take the rocker assembly loose, then all the valves are closed. Doing it this way, cam position is eliminated as a factor. Then, has anybody checked leakdown in a TR wet sleeve engine at, say, top, half stroke, and bottom of stroke? uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From riverside at cedar-rapids.net Wed Sep 26 11:55:38 2007 From: riverside at cedar-rapids.net (riverside) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:55:38 -0500 Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question References: <200709261729.l8QHTgjn260041@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <010c01c80066$7393a820$e9178304@your55e5f9e3d2> I like about 1 inch down in the bore to 1.75. this is where it counts. OHC motors hard to loosen, but easy to see. full degree marks on the damper a big help art d ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack W. Drews" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 12:29 PM Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question > The "normal" way to do this test is to set the piston at top dead > center. But if you take the rocker assembly loose, then all the > valves are closed. Doing it this way, cam position is eliminated as a > factor. Then, has anybody checked leakdown in a TR wet sleeve engine > at, say, top, half stroke, and bottom of stroke? > > uncle jack > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > riverside at cedar-rapids.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.31/1031 - Release Date: > 9/26/2007 12:12 PM From billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 26 11:59:56 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:59:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question In-Reply-To: <200709261729.l8QHTgjn260041@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200709261729.l8QHTgjn260041@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <41F47424-FC6F-4F97-81CB-3CE074D26BFD@bnj.com> Nope, sounds like a lot of work. What are you getting at--you think the sleeves are wiggly? You're right. As I think Joe discovered when he was looking into restoring cylinders, you need a torque plate to bore or hone them. Even then, nothing says that the clamping pressure is the same, or that they distort evenly, or that heat cycles don't have a big effect (they do). I don't know how much it matters. But I do know that if you can keep a TR motor from sticking or overheating for the first four or five events, then the engine gets "happy" and lasts a long time. Purely subjective information, I know, but the motor in Peyote has more than 15 events--that's probably 50 practices, qualifiers, races and warmups. It's a very happy motor and I'm loathe to tear it down. It's got less than six percent leakdown on all four cylinders. On Sep 26, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote: > The "normal" way to do this test is to set the piston at top dead > center. But if you take the rocker assembly loose, then all the > valves are closed. Doing it this way, cam position is eliminated as a > factor. Then, has anybody checked leakdown in a TR wet sleeve engine > at, say, top, half stroke, and bottom of stroke? > > uncle jack > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 26 12:32:18 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:32:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: "As I think Joe discovered when he was looking into restoring cylinders, you need a torque plate to bore or hone them. " Bill, The method of clamping we have now replicates what we used in the JOHN DEERE factory for production liners. No use of Torque Plate. We did extensive testing with both Torque Plate and the Liner Clamping Fixture. Clamping Fixture was clearly superior for repeatability and cycle time. It is available for anyone's use. I can supply address to send liners to. I have no financial interest. Didnt want another level of cost if someone needed to use it. About $20-25/liner plus shipping. Allison, Iowa Joe Alexander Jesup, Iowa > As I think Joe discovered when > he was looking into restoring cylinders, you need a torque plate to > bore or hone them. Even then, nothing says that the clamping pressure > is the same, or that they distort evenly, or that heat cycles don't > have a big effect (they do). I don't know how much it matters. But I > do know that if you can keep a TR motor from sticking or overheating > for the first four or five events, then the engine gets "happy" and > lasts a long time. Purely subjective information, I know, but the > motor in Peyote has more than 15 events--that's probably 50 > practices, qualifiers, races and warmups. It's a very happy motor and > I'm loathe to tear it down. It's got less than six percent leakdown > on all four cylinders. > > From Fubog1 at aol.com Wed Sep 26 13:04:33 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:04:33 EDT Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: In a message dated 9/26/2007 2:33:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, N197TR4 at cs.com writes: We did extensive testing with both Torque Plate Joe I'm curious how thick is your torque plate? Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From Gt6steve at aol.com Wed Sep 26 13:36:03 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:36:03 EDT Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: I was gonna buy a torque plate for the sixes the other day. Would you believe $800.00? I'm back to watching for big pieces of stock... We did extensive testing with both Torque Plate Joe I'm curious how thick is your torque plate? Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From rikrock at aol.com Wed Sep 26 14:16:56 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:16:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed Message-ID: <8C9CE9151EB56C3-6D4-2B12@webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com> Amici, I'm not sure of the correct name, but what I'm looking for might be called the?diff gear carrier.? It's the part of?the Detroit?Locker?that contains all the gears you can't see when?unit is?assembled.? It's a cast piece, with a machined flange that the ring gear?attaches to.?This is for a TR4. Yeah, I know this is a long shot, but maybe, just maybe........ Thanks! Rich Rock Pottstown, PA ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From jaboruch at netzero.net Wed Sep 26 18:13:24 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 00:13:24 GMT Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed Message-ID: <20070926.201324.21392.0@webmail14.dca.untd.com> I have 2 cracked ones. Cracks are a common problem with these. If you find a good source, please let me know, since I can use one too. Joe(B) -- rikrock at aol.com wrote: Amici, I'm not sure of the correct name, but what I'm looking for might be called the?diff gear carrier.? It's the part of?the Detroit?Locker?that contains all the gears you can't see when?unit is?assembled.? It's a cast piece, with a machined flange that the ring gear?attaches to.?This is for a TR4. Yeah, I know this is a long shot, but maybe, just maybe........ Thanks! Rich Rock Pottstown, PA ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Vonage - Official Site $24.99/mo. for unlimited local and long distance calls! http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/JKFkuJO6WhWrohfY7sndT9wSZ9nHM9BQ DMPZ6oiIxG92zM8tJDm5HF/ From earthron at yahoo.com Wed Sep 26 19:16:02 2007 From: earthron at yahoo.com (Ron Jones) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer Message-ID: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, I would like to present a nomination to the group for a fellow Triumph racer. Daryll Clark has been racing his white TR3 #333 with VARA for several seasons. He lives Pine Mountain Club, CA near, and is friends with, Herman of transmission fame. Daryll has been improving his lap times greatly recently and really enjoying racing. Currently he suffering some down time as he caught 2nd gear instead of 4th during a recent race and sheared the flywheel bolts. Daryll started with his street TR3 and made it into what is now a full race car. With his "dry" sense of humor I'm sure he would make a great addition to the FOT group. Daryll's email is Alleycatrace at aol.com. Do I hear a second? Ron Jones 1963 TR4 Race Car 1958 TR3 almost ready for paint and reassembly --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. From alfetta95 at optonline.net Wed Sep 26 19:23:44 2007 From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (alfetta95 at optonline.net) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 01:23:44 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer In-Reply-To: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I second! Welcome Daryll Good Luck Todd Redmond TR3A TS 29341 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Jones Date: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:16 pm Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer To: FOT > Hi all, > > I would like to present a nomination to the group for a fellow > Triumph racer. Daryll Clark has been racing his white TR3 #333 > with VARA for several seasons. He lives Pine Mountain Club, CA > near, and is friends with, Herman of transmission fame. Daryll > has been improving his lap times greatly recently and really > enjoying racing. Currently he suffering some down time as he > caught 2nd gear instead of 4th during a recent race and sheared > the flywheel bolts. > > Daryll started with his street TR3 and made it into what is > now a full race car. With his "dry" sense of humor I'm sure he > would make a great addition to the FOT group. > > Daryll's email is Alleycatrace at aol.com. Do I hear a second? > > Ron Jones > 1963 TR4 Race Car > 1958 TR3 almost ready for paint and reassembly > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! > Travel. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > alfetta95 at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Wed Sep 26 19:36:30 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:36:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer References: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701c800a6$d4bebbe0$0501000a@Chowdown> I SECOND!!! Hey Daryll! Steve B 1962TR3B # 144 ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Jones" To: "FOT" Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 6:16 PM Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer > Hi all, > > I would like to present a nomination to the group for a fellow Triumph > racer. Daryll Clark has been racing his white TR3 #333 with VARA for > several seasons. He lives Pine Mountain Club, CA near, and is friends > with, Herman of transmission fame. Daryll has been improving his lap times > greatly recently and really enjoying racing. Currently he suffering some > down time as he caught 2nd gear instead of 4th during a recent race and > sheared the flywheel bolts. > > Daryll started with his street TR3 and made it into what is now a full > race car. With his "dry" sense of humor I'm sure he would make a great > addition to the FOT group. > > Daryll's email is Alleycatrace at aol.com. Do I hear a second? > > Ron Jones > 1963 TR4 Race Car > 1958 TR3 almost ready for paint and reassembly > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Wed Sep 26 19:55:35 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:55:35 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed References: <8C9CE9151EB56C3-6D4-2B12@webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <004501c800a9$7f7116d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Rick, Long shot may be optimistic. I just bought a "parts" TR4 Detroit Locker on eBay a few weeks ago for an embarrassing sum. I haven't disassembled it yet to see if I got a good or bad deal. Is your case worn in the machined surfaces for the carrier bearings? Good luck with the search.. If you find any other spare parts while hunting I am looking for some engagement springs. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed > Amici, > > I'm not sure of the correct name, but what I'm looking for might be called > the?diff gear carrier.? It's the part of?the Detroit?Locker?that contains > all the gears you can't see when?unit is?assembled.? It's a cast piece, > with a machined flange that the ring gear?attaches to.?This is for a TR4. > > Yeah, I know this is a long shot, but maybe, just maybe........ > > Thanks! > > Rich Rock > Pottstown, PA > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Wed Sep 26 19:58:58 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:58:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question References: Message-ID: <005d01c800a9$fa24d510$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Joe, Did this testing include the plate I sent you? Being as how it is around 2 inches thick I expected that it would work well. I like to know how it compares to the Deere method and what I am losing. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question > In a message dated 9/26/2007 2:33:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > N197TR4 at cs.com writes: > > We did extensive > testing with both Torque Plate > > > Joe I'm curious how thick is your torque plate? > Glen > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 26 20:39:56 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:39:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: In a message dated 9/26/2007 8:59:08 PM Central Daylight Time, rkramer3 at austin.rr.com writes: > Joe, > > Did this testing include the plate I sent you? Being as how it is around 2 > inches thick I expected that it would work well. I like to know how it > compares to the Deere method and what I am losing. > > Yes! I think the plate I have is around 2" thick, too....from Mordy Dunst. I have not measured it yet for Glen. You are not likely to be losing anything. Or very little. Or maybe it is even better when you get done. We had to try different torques and different settings on boring and honing equipment, including changing hone stones, to get the desired results. Very time consuming, to get it where we felt it was right. The 'production fixture' was eventually made and we got the results and repeatability much faster. At least all of the liners are pretty much the same. I use a standard head gasket, so I suspect there is not much crush on the rim and it may hold it's wall shape pretty well in assembly. Not very technical, but when it is simple and it works, that's usually a good sign. Our clamping on the entire skirt seems to stabilize the liner very well during boring and honing. Also, beats making a set up with an engine block and placing the torque plate on the liners with all of the fiddling with head bolts and nuts. Fast set up. I would never go back to the old way...but that's me. I stood around these boring and honing machines for hours and hours as an industrial engineer. I dont have perfect knowledge on any of this stuff, but it seems right to me. Joe Alexander From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 26 20:59:01 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:59:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Replacement to Silent-bloc on TR3A Steering Assembly Message-ID: FoT: TR2 3 3A 3B Owners & Racers I just completed a production run on a new design for the OEM rubber imbedded pivot pin. It is different than the original Silent-bloc design....hopefully a big improvement. No rubber from Taiwan and all of the resistence that goes with it. (Yes, I am aware of the Stainless Steel Pin and Bronze Bushing design that is available) This one is another design...similar but different.....hopefully as good or very close. Lower cost, in any case. Targeted at street TR3s distributed through one or more of the 'big three'. If you want to hear more, contact me directly for description and pictures. I have a pilot run done and looking for feedback. I thought about doing this for a very long time, and then got sufficient encouragement to follow through. Of course, I am going to install it on my own TR3A and study it for changes in steering effort and road feel. Joe A N197tr4 at cs.com From koblinger at verizon.net Wed Sep 26 21:04:18 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:04:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer In-Reply-To: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46FB1DB2.2010206@verizon.net> I'll third, or is it fourth? I hear his crew chief is pretty cute too. Welcome to Daryll and CC. And here is a pic of the man in action. http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8839/dctr3js2.jpg Cheers, Kurt O. Ron Jones wrote: >Hi all, > > I would like to present a nomination to the group for a fellow Triumph racer. Daryll Clark has been racing his white TR3 #333 with VARA for several seasons. He lives Pine Mountain Club, CA near, and is friends with, Herman of transmission fame. Daryll has been improving his lap times greatly recently and really enjoying racing. Currently he suffering some down time as he caught 2nd gear instead of 4th during a recent race and sheared the flywheel bolts. > > Daryll started with his street TR3 and made it into what is now a full race car. With his "dry" sense of humor I'm sure he would make a great addition to the FOT group. > > Daryll's email is Alleycatrace at aol.com. Do I hear a second? > > Ron Jones > 1963 TR4 Race Car > 1958 TR3 almost ready for paint and reassembly > > >--------------------------------- >Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gasket.works at verizon.net Thu Sep 27 01:58:11 2007 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (MDunst/Gasket Works) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 00:58:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <000801c800dc$26a1c440$1502a8c0@Belkin> So, it is For Sale (why buy one when you can buy three....) Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal mains and rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower of San Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. Original custom foamed security packaging. As some comedian said in the movie "Men in Black" ..."the best of the best of the best". The good news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day. The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00 with insured ground shipping included within continental USA. Fedex custom Critical next flight out service available at market rate -If you need to ask how much this costs you can't afford the crank to begin with. Pictures available upon request. Almost too pretty to use in tractor motor. It looks like it was made for some 4 cyl exotic with five main bearings. Christmas/Hanukah stocking stuffer. Happy Autumn M. Dunst www.headgasket.com Gasket Works USA, LLC 626.358.1616 Voice 626.628.3777 Fax GMT -8 Pacific From Fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 27 06:31:54 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 08:31:54 EDT Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: In a message dated 9/26/2007 10:40:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, N197TR4 at cs.com writes: > Joe, > > Did this testing include the plate I sent you? Being as how it is around 2 > inches thick I expected that it would work well. I like to know how it > compares to the Deere method and what I am losing. > > Yes! I think the plate I have is around 2" thick, too....from Mordy Dunst. I have not measured it yet for Glen. You are not likely to be losing anything. Or very little. Or maybe it is even better when you get done. We had to try different torques and different settings on boring and honing equipment, including changing hone stones, to get the desired results. Very time consuming, to get it where we felt it was right. I guess my point is that the plate for these engines has to be pretty stout, since the purpose of using it is a little different than on a conventional bore-in-block engine. My plate is 2 inches as well but, as we well know, it's a real PITA. Anything that does the job as well as or better than the torque plate would be a real good thing. Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Thu Sep 27 06:30:51 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 07:30:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <000801c800dc$26a1c440$1502a8c0@Belkin> References: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> <000801c800dc$26a1c440$1502a8c0@Belkin> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7471639F@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> << If you need to ask how much this costs you can't afford the crank to begin with. >> And when has THAT ever stopped one of us when a really trick part like this becomes available?? Scott B. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MDunst/Gasket Works Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:58 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot So, it is For Sale (why buy one when you can buy three....) Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal mains and rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower of San Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. Original custom foamed security packaging. As some comedian said in the movie "Men in Black" ..."the best of the best of the best". The good news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day. The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00 with insured ground shipping included within continental USA. Fedex custom Critical next flight out service available at market rate -If you need to ask how much this costs you can't afford the crank to begin with. Pictures available upon request. Almost too pretty to use in tractor motor. It looks like it was made for some 4 cyl exotic with five main bearings. Christmas/Hanukah stocking stuffer. Happy Autumn M. Dunst www.headgasket.com Gasket Works USA, LLC 626.358.1616 Voice 626.628.3777 Fax GMT -8 Pacific scott.barr at mccarty-law.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chasgee at aol.com Thu Sep 27 10:17:48 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 12:17:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <000801c800dc$26a1c440$1502a8c0@Belkin> References: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> <000801c800dc$26a1c440$1502a8c0@Belkin> Message-ID: <8C9CF391450E424-3F4-584E@webmail-db11.sysops.aol.com> That's more than it costs me to do a complete motor..... -----Original Message----- From: MDunst/Gasket Works To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 12:58 am Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot So, it is For Sale (why buy one when you can buy three....) Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal mains and rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower of San Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. Original custom foamed security packaging. As some comedian said in the movie "Men in Black" ..."the best of the best of the best". The good news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day. The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00 with insured ground shipping included within continental USA. Fedex custom Critical next flight out service available at market rate -If you need to ask how much this costs you can't afford the crank to begin with. Pictures available upon request. Almost too pretty to use in tractor motor. It looks like it was made for some 4 cyl exotic with five main bearings. Christmas/Hanukah stocking stuffer. Happy Autumn M. Dunst www.headgasket.com Gasket Works USA, LLC 626.358.1616 Voice 626.628.3777 Fax GMT -8 Pacific chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From rikrock at aol.com Thu Sep 27 13:39:52 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 15:39:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed In-Reply-To: <004501c800a9$7f7116d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <8C9CE9151EB56C3-6D4-2B12@webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com> <004501c800a9$7f7116d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <8C9CF554EC6D7FB-B6C-69B1@MBLK-M18.sysops.aol.com> The machined flange to which the ring gear mates is now a separate piece.? It broke(sheared)? from the main body :-( Rich Rock -----Original Message----- From: BOB KRAMER To: rikrock at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 9:55 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed Rick, Long shot may be optimistic. I just bought a "parts" TR4 Detroit Locker on eBay a few weeks ago for an embarrassing sum. I haven't disassembled it yet to see if I got a good or bad deal. Is your case worn in the machined surfaces for the carrier bearings? Good luck with the search.. If you find any other spare parts while hunting I am looking for some engagement springs. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed > Amici, > > I'm not sure of the correct name, but what I'm looking for might be called > the?diff gear carrier.? It's the part of?the Detroit?Locker?that contains > all the gears you can't see when?unit is?assembled.? It's a cast piece, > with a machined flange that the ring gear?attaches to.?This is for a TR4. > > Yeah, I know this is a long shot, but maybe, just maybe........ > > Thanks! > > Rich Rock > Pottstown, PA > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From budscars at msn.com Thu Sep 27 14:43:44 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 13:43:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: best choice so far?? Message-ID: Re: best choice so far??Hi Gang...a friend of a friend is interested in this spitfire on the link below..apparently jerry barker built the engine..I you have any addirional info..especially about the car being CSRG eligible, please contact Bill Kirkwood at kiwi at mbari.org Thanks Racer Bud..spitfire #21 --- http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/triumph/1180469329/1180469329ss.htm From Gt6steve at aol.com Thu Sep 27 14:47:05 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:47:05 EDT Subject: [Fot] Fw: best choice so far?? Message-ID: A VERY good car well known to the VARA Triumph racers. Impeccable credentials, well sorted and fast. Steve Smith _http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/triumph/1180469329/1180469329ss.htm_ (http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/triumph/1180469329/1180469329ss.htm) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From JandJalford at aol.com Thu Sep 27 16:36:17 2007 From: JandJalford at aol.com (JandJalford at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:36:17 EDT Subject: [Fot] Fw: best choice so far?? Message-ID: Steve, Car has been sold and is back in Washington to run with SOVREN. Vince is now building a Fiat. Jerry Alford ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From hottr6 at hotmail.com Thu Sep 27 16:39:57 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:39:57 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: Mordy wrote: >Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal mains and >rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower of San >Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. The good >news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day. >The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00 A lot of the heavy moving parts in my old 351 Cleveland were built by Crower, and it would run at 7,000 rpm all day long. Crower builds truly good stuff, and I would recommend them. $3.3K? CHEAP, considering I am still looking at $6K for the first billet TR6 crank. When is someone going to kick SCCA in the a$$ and allow all TR6s to compete in vintage? Once the market exists, affordable hi-po bits will follow. Shane Ingate, in the Land of Enchantment _________________________________________________________________ Can you find the hidden words? Take a break and play Seekadoo! http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_hotmailtextlink1 From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 27 17:02:25 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:02:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A60B43F-F9B8-419D-A904-F7406DE50AD8@bnj.com> Not sure what you mean about SCCA allowing TR6 to compete in vintage. My experience with the SCCA here in portland indicates that you can run anything you like in vintage as long as it passes tech, and tech doesn't car what the car is as long as it's safe. On Sep 27, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Shane Ingate wrote: > Mordy wrote: > >> Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal >> mains and >> rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower >> of San >> Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. >> The good >> news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day. >> The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00 > > A lot of the heavy moving parts in my old 351 Cleveland were built > by Crower, and it would run at 7,000 rpm all day long. Crower builds > truly good stuff, and I would recommend them. $3.3K? CHEAP, > considering > I am still looking at $6K for the first billet TR6 crank. > > When is someone going to kick SCCA in the a$$ and allow all TR6s to > compete in vintage? Once the market exists, affordable hi-po bits > will > follow. > > Shane Ingate, in the Land of Enchantment > > _________________________________________________________________ > Can you find the hidden words? Take a break and play Seekadoo! > http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_hotmailtextlink1 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Thu Sep 27 17:04:31 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:04:31 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: Shane, Who told you 6K? Probably Moldex. Several years ago Scat told me $2200 for the sixes and I could mix the strokes. Trouble was I had to buy ten and I just couldn't float that expense. I've not talked to them in several years. Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Sep 27 20:29:08 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 21:29:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Zinc Inquiry Message-ID: FoT, Here is a response from Brad Penn regarding ZDDP.Allen Begin forwarded message: > From: Ken Tyger > Date: September 27, 2007 8:03:34 AM CDT > To: awashatko at wi.rr.com > Subject: Zinc Inquiry > > Allen, > > Thank you for contacting the American Refining Group, Inc. and for > your inquiry. > > I understand any concerns you might have in regards to (or lack of) > ZDDP and anti-wear components in racing lubricants. Although the > exact zinc concentration in our formulation is proprietary, I can say > that the value you have referenced, >1% ZN (>1200ppm), would be a > reasonable representation of the approximate level of zinc in our Brad > Penn. Penn-Grade 1. Racing Oil(s). Zinc, as you know, is a critical > element in protecting the cam lobe flat tappet wear area commonly > found in high performance applications. The zinc utilized in our ZDDP > is a very polar additive, meaning the zinc compounds react to the > metal to prevent scuffing and wear..obviously a must when discussing > flat tappet cams. > > Secondly, while zinc is an important part of the oil make-up, it is by > no means the whole story. The 100% PA Grade base stocks used in > formulating our Brad Penn. Penn-Grade 1. Racing Oil(s) contain a > natural polarity to the metal as well. Yes, the additive package is > important, but as you can see so are the base oils. Our refinery can > only produce one crude oil and that is Penn-Grade. > > Many engine builders, racing enthusiasts and your typical > muscle/hotrod/vintage users have reported outstanding success using > the Brad Penn. Penn-Grade 1. Racing Oil(s).I have no doubt you will > experience the same. On a sidenote, Brad Penn. Penn-Grade 1. Racing > Oil(s) are recommended by such cam manufacturers as Crower, Isky, > Schneider, Howards, Bullet and Crane. > > As you know, talk is cheap! The proof is in the performance. We at > American Refining Group, Inc. rely on the proven performance of our > products, not hype. If I can be of further assistance, please contact > me. > > Regards, > > Kenneth M. Tyger > Technical Service Representative > American Refining Group, Inc. > > > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Thu Sep 27 20:34:11 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:34:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] scca Vintage Message-ID: <46FC6823.5060408@cyberspeedway.net> The SCCA vintage rules beyond safety are mostly up to the Region. There are several GCRs included in the Vintage GCR. I think they are 1962, 1967-68, and 1972. I don't have one here but they are very interesting. They clear up a lot of speculation about what was allowed and when. AZ Region is going to start running a Vintage group in our regional program this fall. We are starting with Production and Sedan classes only. I think the local Vintage guys who are guiding this are taking any non flared car for the first event. Greg Lund From walt at hot-tr6.com Fri Sep 28 07:06:52 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:06:52 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed Message-ID: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> I am building up a couple of TR6 engine but my two spare blocks for my 2008 racing season season. My two extra TR6 engines are missing the rear main crankshaft bearing caps. If any FOT members have a motor that grenaded maybe they have a cap or two they could sell me. Thanks Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, NM direct email: walt at hot-tr6.com From dos_gusanos at msn.com Fri Sep 28 08:04:30 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:04:30 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, and I'm waiting for the Confederate Air Force, or whatever their PC name is now, to designate the B-52 as a WWII aircraft. Henry Morrison, Albuquerque.............> From: hottr6 at hotmail.com> To: gasket.works at verizon.net> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:39:57 -0400> CC: fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot> > Mordy wrote:> > >Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal mains and> >rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower of San> >Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. The good > >news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day.> >The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00> > A lot of the heavy moving parts in my old 351 Cleveland were built> by Crower, and it would run at 7,000 rpm all day long. Crower builds> truly good stuff, and I would recommend them. $3.3K? CHEAP, considering> I am still looking at $6K for the first billet TR6 crank.> > When is someone going to kick SCCA in the a$$ and allow all TR6s to> compete in vintage? Once the market exists, affordable hi-po bits will > follow.> > Shane Ingate, in the Land of Enchantment> > _________________________________________________________________> Can you find the hidden words? Take a break and play Seekadoo! > http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_hotmailtextlink1> _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Sep 28 08:07:06 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:07:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed References: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <03da01c801d8$dac92c40$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Walt, thanks for starting this thread because I also need some main bearing caps. I need all of them though, so if after Walt gets his to rear main caps, if there are any left over please contact me. Thanks, Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Hollowell" To: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:06 AM Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed > I am building up a couple of TR6 engine but my two spare blocks for my 2008 > racing season season. My two extra TR6 engines are missing the rear main > crankshaft bearing caps. If any FOT members have a motor that grenaded maybe > they have a cap or two they could sell me. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Albuquerque, NM > direct email: walt at hot-tr6.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Fri Sep 28 08:12:49 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:12:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed Message-ID: Dang guys, what are you doing with these things? I'll see what I've got Charly, already promised a rear main cap to Walt if I can come up with them. Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Sep 28 08:47:46 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:47:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed References: Message-ID: <040001c801de$89268670$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Thanks, let me know. I don't know what happened to the caps, I just found a good block with out any. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: charly at mitchelplumbing.com ; walt at hot-tr6.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 part needed Dang guys, what are you doing with these things? I'll see what I've got Charly, already promised a rear main cap to Walt if I can come up with them. Steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Fri Sep 28 09:05:27 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:05:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed In-Reply-To: <03da01c801d8$dac92c40$1a02a8c0@workstation3> References: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> <03da01c801d8$dac92c40$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820AC11E93@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Mark, Did you ever get onto the FOT list? I can't recall seeing you post anything as of yet. If your not onthe list then you haven't seen that some other FoTer's are looking for TR6 main bearing caps. If I recall you had a blown up block and might still have the bearing caps. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Hollowell" To: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:06 AM Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed > I am building up a couple of TR6 engine but my two spare blocks for my 2008 > racing season season. My two extra TR6 engines are missing the rear main > crankshaft bearing caps. If any FOT members have a motor that grenaded maybe > they have a cap or two they could sell me. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Albuquerque, NM > direct email: walt at hot-tr6.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot rkramer at rdoequipment.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From hottr6 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 28 09:19:06 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:19:06 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve, The low quote you received from SCAT amortizes the cost of set-up on the first crank over 10 units. Moldex says that the first unit is $6K, the first 3 units $5.5K each, and the price decreases depending on the length of the production run. I do not know of many serious TR5/6 racers out there: Chuck Arnold, Dean Van der Carr, Sam Halkias, Walt Hollowill, JK Jackson, Bob Lang, Mike Munson, Kai Radicke, Marty Sukey, Dave Wingett and Alan Washatko. My apologies if I have left any out. Still, it is a small number, and not because the car is incapable, but we have to race unfairly in classes where the car is largely non-competitive. The GT6s have an easier time because they meet the age requirements. Shane ----Original Message Follows---- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: hottr6 at hotmail.com, gasket.works at verizon.net CC: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:04:31 EDT Shane, Who told you 6K? Probably Moldex. Several years ago Scat told me $2200 for the sixes and I could mix the strokes. Trouble was I had to buy ten and I just couldn't float that expense. I've not talked to them in several years. Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com _________________________________________________________________ A place for moms to take a break! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Fri Sep 28 09:23:28 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:23:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: Message-ID: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> How do you tell your wives that you need to spend 3-6k on a crankshaft? ~Steve B :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Ingate" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > Steve, > > The low quote you received from SCAT amortizes the cost of set-up on the > first crank over 10 units. Moldex says that the first unit is $6K, the > first 3 units $5.5K each, and the price decreases depending on the length > of > the production run. > > I do not know of many serious TR5/6 racers out there: Chuck Arnold, Dean > Van > der Carr, Sam Halkias, Walt Hollowill, JK Jackson, Bob Lang, Mike Munson, > Kai Radicke, Marty Sukey, Dave Wingett and Alan Washatko. My apologies if > I > have left any out. Still, it is a small number, and not because the car > is > incapable, but we have to race unfairly in classes where the car is > largely > non-competitive. > > The GT6s have an easier time because they meet the age requirements. > > Shane > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Gt6steve at aol.com > To: hottr6 at hotmail.com, gasket.works at verizon.net > CC: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:04:31 EDT > > Shane, > Who told you 6K? Probably Moldex. Several years ago Scat told me $2200 > for > the sixes and I could mix the strokes. Trouble was I had to buy ten and I > just couldn't float that expense. I've not talked to them in several > years. > Steve > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > A place for moms to take a break! > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 09:29:36 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:29:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot...telling wife Message-ID: right after you catch her with another guy..! ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Sep 28 10:02:47 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:02:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: Message-ID: <040a01c801e9$039abf20$1a02a8c0@workstation3> I too race a TR6 and would be interested in a crank, but the crank hasn't been the problem. Its been the flywheel/clutch. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Ingate" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > Steve, > > The low quote you received from SCAT amortizes the cost of set-up on the > first crank over 10 units. Moldex says that the first unit is $6K, the > first 3 units $5.5K each, and the price decreases depending on the length of > the production run. > > I do not know of many serious TR5/6 racers out there: Chuck Arnold, Dean Van > der Carr, Sam Halkias, Walt Hollowill, JK Jackson, Bob Lang, Mike Munson, > Kai Radicke, Marty Sukey, Dave Wingett and Alan Washatko. My apologies if I > have left any out. Still, it is a small number, and not because the car is > incapable, but we have to race unfairly in classes where the car is largely > non-competitive. > > The GT6s have an easier time because they meet the age requirements. > > Shane > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Gt6steve at aol.com > To: hottr6 at hotmail.com, gasket.works at verizon.net > CC: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:04:31 EDT > > Shane, > Who told you 6K? Probably Moldex. Several years ago Scat told me $2200 for > the sixes and I could mix the strokes. Trouble was I had to buy ten and I > just couldn't float that expense. I've not talked to them in several years. > Steve > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > A place for moms to take a break! > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Sep 28 10:03:31 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:03:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot...telling wife References: Message-ID: <041201c801e9$1dfce5a0$1a02a8c0@workstation3> How do you justify all the other racing expenses? Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot...telling wife > right after you catch her with another guy..! > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 10:10:51 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:10:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot...telling wife Message-ID: as soon as I get done with this vacuuming ,and the dishes...I'm gonna work on the race entry...and hopefully,someday, Paul Newman really will show up. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From chasgee at aol.com Fri Sep 28 10:07:32 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:07:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed In-Reply-To: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> References: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8C9D000CF981184-178C-991C@webmail-me16.sysops.aol.com> Keep in mind these are the same as 1500 Spitfire. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Walter Hollowell To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 6:06 am Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed I am building up a couple of TR6 engine but my two spare blocks for my 2008 racing season season. My two extra TR6 engines are missing the rear main crankshaft bearing caps. If any FOT members have a motor that grenaded maybe they have a cap or two they could sell me. Thanks Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, NM direct email: walt at hot-tr6.com chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Sep 28 10:22:40 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:22:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed References: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> <8C9D000CF981184-178C-991C@webmail-me16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <042001c801eb$cc0ee650$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Thanks, I never thought of that. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 part needed > Keep in mind these are the same as 1500 Spitfire. > > Chuck > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Hollowell > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 6:06 am > Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed > > > > I am building up a couple of TR6 engine but my two spare blocks for my 2008 > racing season season. My two extra TR6 engines are missing the rear main > crankshaft bearing caps. If any FOT members have a motor that grenaded maybe > they have a cap or two they could sell me. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Albuquerque, NM > direct email: walt at hot-tr6.com > chasgee at aol.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 10:28:01 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:28:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR6....wife Message-ID: it then really depends on yor situ....Newlywed,better set the right precedents now or b/4 ......if 39yrs married,etc, ,like me,....try leaving a copy of your 401K where she can see it....and mentioning how 'dangerous' this sport is! ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From twakeman at razzolink.com Fri Sep 28 10:51:04 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:51:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> Steve Belfer wrote: > How do you tell your wives that you need to spend 3-6k on a crankshaft? By first telling them that they have $3-6K to spend on themselves without regard to family or home. Fair is fair TeriAnn From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 10:58:21 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:58:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: Sorry Teri...I don't feel that spending should be a contest of matching funds.....spend what you NEED ,when you need it,and vice-versa.... ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From dos_gusanos at msn.com Fri Sep 28 11:21:22 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:21:22 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper trail.................................. From twakeman at razzolink.com Fri Sep 28 11:20:25 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:20:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46FD37D9.1000900@razzolink.com> REK46 at aol.com wrote: > Sorry Teri...I don't feel that spending should be a contest of matching > funds.....spend what you NEED ,when you need it,and vice-versa.... I agree for individual and family NEEDs. But I don't agree when it comes to hobbies & pastimes. There the balance of discretionary funds tend to be unbalanced. Especially the closer a family income comes to subsistence level income. If there's plenty of money for everyone to do as they wish, who cares. If one party goes without while the other spends on non family items, there tends to be a resentment level that accumulates over time. but this is just one woman's opinion From hottr6 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 28 11:57:47 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:57:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot... telling the wife Message-ID: >How do you tell your wives that you need to spend 3-6k on a crankshaft? The current member is a little floppy, and needs stiffening to sustain faster speeds. It must be Friday and am getting a little punchy. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes! http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2 From riverside at cedar-rapids.net Fri Sep 28 12:01:29 2007 From: riverside at cedar-rapids.net (riverside) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:01:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: <46FD37D9.1000900@razzolink.com> Message-ID: <003301c801f9$99586250$78d0fc04@your55e5f9e3d2> faint echos of a prematurely curtailed racing carreer and the causes thereof. art d ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Cc: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > REK46 at aol.com wrote: >> Sorry Teri...I don't feel that spending should be a contest of matching >> funds.....spend what you NEED ,when you need it,and vice-versa.... > > I agree for individual and family NEEDs. But I don't agree when it > comes to hobbies & pastimes. There the balance of discretionary funds > tend to be unbalanced. Especially the closer a family income comes to > subsistence level income. If there's plenty of money for everyone to do > as they wish, who cares. If one party goes without while the other > spends on non family items, there tends to be a resentment level that > accumulates over time. > > but this is just one woman's opinion > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > riverside at cedar-rapids.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1034 - Release Date: > 9/27/2007 5:00 PM From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 12:09:47 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:09:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: well,as Teri says .." it's only one womans opinion "...maybe we should poll the wives of Warren Jeffs. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From dos_gusanos at msn.com Fri Sep 28 12:10:04 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:10:04 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <003301c801f9$99586250$78d0fc04@your55e5f9e3d2> References: <46FD37D9.1000900@razzolink.com> <003301c801f9$99586250$78d0fc04@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: This is my favorite topic for making jokes, that said, I would dump it all rather than go through the big D, after all she'd probably take the pit crew with her. From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 12:21:29 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:21:29 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: If we had to go thru the Big "D " (assuming you don't mean Dallas)...we'd lose more than the crew.....then it would be back to racing on Visa ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Sep 28 12:24:05 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:24:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot... telling the wife References: Message-ID: <004a01c801fc$c0e77600$0200a8c0@Desktop> Gee Shane....... Rags has been a part for how long By the time you will need the crank it will be 9K or more Craig What do tell your wife (the boss) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Ingate" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot... telling the wife > >How do you tell your wives that you need to spend 3-6k on a crankshaft? > > The current member is a little floppy, and needs stiffening to sustain > faster speeds. > > It must be Friday and am getting a little punchy. > > Shane Ingate in NM > > _________________________________________________________________ > Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes! > http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Fri Sep 28 13:57:21 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:57:21 -0600 Subject: [Fot] No oil pressure Message-ID: <000001c80209$c8d14be0$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> During my pre-ignition check of a fresh TR4 motor I discovered I have NO oil pressure. When I spun up the pump through the distributor pedestal it geysered through the pedestal but little else. During assembly I greased the new pump to assist with the prime. I pulled the oil pressure line and checked for obstructions. None found I have a rocker feed line I can only get a drop or two of oil at number 4 exhaust rocker. I tried rotating the cam to a half dozen different orientations and still can't get oil to the rockers. Checked for the gasket between the block and pump, it's there. Checked the copper washer at the banjo fitting at the filter head. I had a smaller ID washer to begin with, swapped it out with a larger ID and no change. Adjusted the oil pressure relief valve all the way in and back out, seems to be in order, ball looks seated but I will check again. I checked the gauge with air, works fine. Disconnected the oil pressure line up top, barely a dribble of oil. Pulled one of the large oil gallery plugs below the distributor, oil flows out but can't tell at what pressure. The oil pump drive shaft bushing notch is aligned front to rear but seems to be off by a degree or two ? Checked the filter head for obstructions, found none. I installed the oil filter and the oil cooler dry, when taken apart they were both full. Pump pickup/screen has proper orientation. Everything seems to be in order, I'm completely baffled. Has anyone else had this problem ? Thanx, Jim G. # 102 RMVR From Fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 14:08:02 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:08:02 EDT Subject: [Fot] No oil pressure Message-ID: In a message dated 9/28/2007 3:59:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: Checked for the gasket between the block and pump, it's there. fitted correct way? Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From mini at wi.rr.com Fri Sep 28 17:57:01 2007 From: mini at wi.rr.com (Richard Gehweiler) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:57:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] No oil pressure In-Reply-To: <000001c80209$c8d14be0$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Message-ID: <000e01c8022b$473739b0$6400a8c0@home> I used to work at a now defunct sports car service shop. One of the jobs they had me do was to install and remove the engine from an MG TF (in and out at least a half a dozen times). It wouldn't generate oil pressure. The guy who rebuilt it and the shop owner couldn't figure it out. They finally found that the machine shop hadn't installed one of the cam bearings....no restriction, no oil pressure. I couldn't get them to bench test for pressure, they had me install and start the engine to get pressure. It pained me to see metal shavings at the rockers on a fresh rebuild that a customer was paying for. (He also wound up paying for all the time I spent installing and pulling the engine, any wonder the shop is out of business!). Richard Gehweiler mini at wi.rr.com 1.262.894.5460 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+mini=wi.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+mini=wi.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of James Gray Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 2:57 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] No oil pressure During my pre-ignition check of a fresh TR4 motor I discovered I have NO oil pressure. When I spun up the pump through the distributor pedestal it geysered through the pedestal but little else. During assembly I greased the new pump to assist with the prime. I pulled the oil pressure line and checked for obstructions. None found I have a rocker feed line I can only get a drop or two of oil at number 4 exhaust rocker. I tried rotating the cam to a half dozen different orientations and still can't get oil to the rockers. Checked for the gasket between the block and pump, it's there. Checked the copper washer at the banjo fitting at the filter head. I had a smaller ID washer to begin with, swapped it out with a larger ID and no change. Adjusted the oil pressure relief valve all the way in and back out, seems to be in order, ball looks seated but I will check again. I checked the gauge with air, works fine. Disconnected the oil pressure line up top, barely a dribble of oil. Pulled one of the large oil gallery plugs below the distributor, oil flows out but can't tell at what pressure. The oil pump drive shaft bushing notch is aligned front to rear but seems to be off by a degree or two ? Checked the filter head for obstructions, found none. I installed the oil filter and the oil cooler dry, when taken apart they were both full. Pump pickup/screen has proper orientation. Everything seems to be in order, I'm completely baffled. Has anyone else had this problem ? Thanx, Jim G. # 102 RMVR mini at wi.rr.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Fri Sep 28 19:36:14 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? In-Reply-To: <46FC6823.5060408@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <413580.57432.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> While racing today at LRP, I lost the head gasket. Brand new motor, only 2 sessions of time on it. Upon inspection, the rear freezeplug had "left the building". So my question is this, is it more likely the gasket failure caused the freezeplug to go or the other way around? This motor was brand new, and it was put together (dad and myself) effectively. This motor doesn't leak and it has power so why would the gasket go so quickly? This is why I am leaning towards the freezeplug as the cause and the gasket as the effect.... Thoughts... Thanks Jay --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. From budscars at msn.com Fri Sep 28 19:58:21 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:58:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? References: <413580.57432.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jay....I don't know what TR you are racing, ..I have a new engine in my Spitfire....and the new freeze plugs are leaking..without even being on the track.....I've been told that now that the blocks are getting old, that putting a sealer in the water system is a normal thing ? I could use some input here too. Thanks Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Creel" To: "greg" ; "FOT LIST" Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? > While racing today at LRP, I lost the head gasket. Brand new motor, only > 2 sessions of time on it. Upon inspection, the rear freezeplug had "left > the building". So my question is this, is it more likely the gasket > failure caused the freezeplug to go or the other way around? > > This motor was brand new, and it was put together (dad and myself) > effectively. This motor doesn't leak and it has power so why would the > gasket go so quickly? This is why I am leaning towards the freezeplug as > the cause and the gasket as the effect.... > > Thoughts... > > Thanks > Jay > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Fri Sep 28 20:06:13 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 02:06:13 GMT Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? Message-ID: <20070928.220613.5810.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> I lost a freeze plug on my Spitfire years ago and more recently had one leaking on a head that I rebuilt for my TR3. Both were plugs that were in place for years. From now on, I will replace them as part of the build up, so that I know what I have. With my Spitfire I drilled and tapped 4-40 screws next to the freeze plug as a little more insurance to retain the plug. Joe(B) -- "RACER BUD" wrote: Hi Jay....I don't know what TR you are racing, ..I have a new engine in my Spitfire....and the new freeze plugs are leaking..without even being on the track.....I've been told that now that the blocks are getting old, that putting a sealer in the water system is a normal thing ? I could use some input here too. Thanks Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Creel" To: "greg" ; "FOT LIST" Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? > While racing today at LRP, I lost the head gasket. Brand new motor, only > 2 sessions of time on it. Upon inspection, the rear freezeplug had "left > the building". So my question is this, is it more likely the gasket > failure caused the freezeplug to go or the other way around? > > This motor was brand new, and it was put together (dad and myself) > effectively. This motor doesn't leak and it has power so why would the > gasket go so quickly? This is why I am leaning towards the freezeplug as > the cause and the gasket as the effect.... > > Thoughts... > > Thanks > Jay > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Vonage - Official Site $24.99/mo. for unlimited local and long distance calls! http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/JKFkuJO6WhXb5tcDhnoirvNVPggxbMyu 4tRC2AwOzraMz1QEptbT9f/ From spitfiresuz at 141.com Fri Sep 28 20:41:29 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:41:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P Susan :) dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper > trail.................................. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Fri Sep 28 21:02:18 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 23:02:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? Message-ID: In a message dated 9/28/2007 7:42:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: > > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 02:06:13 GMT > From: "Joe Boruch" > Subject: Re: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze > plug???? > To: budscars at msn.com > > I lost a freeze plug on my Spitfire years ago and more recently had one > leaking on a head that I rebuilt for my TR3. Both were plugs that were in > place for years. From now on, I will replace them as part of the build up, > so > that I know what I have. > With my Spitfire I drilled and tapped 4-40 screws next to the freeze plug as > a > little more insurance to retain the plug. Joe(B) ISTR that some racers hold their freeze plugs in place with a strap attached to the block with some kind of screws, to prevent them coming out? I do not believe that the age of the blocks has any effect. Regards Lion From twakeman at razzolink.com Fri Sep 28 22:05:24 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:05:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: <46FDCF04.1020702@razzolink.com> Susan Kahler wrote: > Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank > from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine > around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P > > Susan :) Something to aspire to! I've been working on a Land Rover project that includes new front axles, front diff, front prop shaft, all new frame suspension bushings and rebuilding the transfer case. So far I've broken 2 nails! I'm envious of your skill! TeriAnn From dos_gusanos at msn.com Fri Sep 28 22:18:28 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:18:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: If your lady will be happy with the crank as an anniversary gift, who's gonna have to do any explaining? I'd a never let a gal with her own Spitfire get away......................................Henry> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:41:29 -0500> From: spitfiresuz at 141.com> To: dos_gusanos at msn.com> CC: fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot> > Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank > from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine > around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P> > Susan :)> > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote:> > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of> > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with> > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper> > trail..................................> > _______________________________________________> > http://www.team.net/donate.html> >> > spitfiresuz at 141.com> > Fot mailing list> > Fot at autox.team.net> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> >> >> >> > > > -- > ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. **> From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Sat Sep 29 06:26:33 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 08:26:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: <001401c80294$0242b280$0200a8c0@Desktop> OUCH! you guys and girls need to get back to racing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kahler" To: Cc: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank > from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine > around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P > > Susan :) > > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: >> Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of >> thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with >> allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper >> trail.................................. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> spitfiresuz at 141.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> >> > > -- > ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then > beat you with experience. ** > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From VANDECARR at aol.com Sat Sep 29 07:02:13 2007 From: VANDECARR at aol.com (VANDECARR at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:02:13 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR 6 Race Engine for sale Message-ID: I would like to offer this race prepared TR 6 to the group before listing it on ebay. This engine was originally in my TR 6 that was used only for Solo II events. It was installed in June and was used in about 9 events. I replaced the engine with a small block Ford V8. I was keeping it in case I changed my mind or was going to build another race TR 6 but I like the V8 power and I bm now building a BM car for Solo II. This engine was in great running shape when removed and has been stored in a heated garage. Put on a set of Webers and manifold and this engine is ready to go. In addition to the race parts listed below it also has a new oil pump and water pump. If anyone plans on bulding a race motor for next season this will save you a lot of money. Ibd like $4500 and will pack it up and freight it for my cost. Below are the specs for the engine - for more more info email me or call 845-221-4776. J&E forged pistons - 040 0ver Pauter forged rods NOS standard size Vandervell Tri Metal bearings - Mains and rods(comes with extra set) Circle B head milled .220 - machinist checked for proper head thickness before milling Goodparts roller rockers and hardened shaft Hollow push rods and chilled lifters Cam is a BP 285 with a .472 lift Aluminum flywheel with HD B&B clutch and pressure plate - balanced Electromotive crank fire ignition system - Aluminum front pulley- alternater idler pulley Block was boiled,bored, decked, mains line bored and magnafluxed ARP head studs and main bearing studs installed All internal parts were magnafluxed and balanced - over $2000 just in machine work Block is plumbed for an accusump - 3 qt accusump with manual valve included Also a set of Kirk Racing headers are available. DeanVanDeCarr ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From spitfiresuz at 141.com Sat Sep 29 07:16:07 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 08:16:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <46FDCF04.1020702@razzolink.com> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> <46FDCF04.1020702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: <46FE5017.90108@141.com> Now, I am a novice initiate when it comes to you, TeriAnn! I am always amazed at your experience and knowledge. That's a lot of big, heavy stuff -- no wonder nails have been broken! A Spitfire engine is like building a model next to that. ;) But what a huge difference it will make in your LR. Good luck with it! Susan :) TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > Susan Kahler wrote: > >> Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank >> from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine >> around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P >> >> Susan :) >> > > > Something to aspire to! > > I've been working on a Land Rover project that includes new front axles, > front diff, front prop shaft, all new frame suspension bushings and > rebuilding the transfer case. > > So far I've broken 2 nails! I'm envious of your skill! > > TeriAnn > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From twakeman at razzolink.com Sat Sep 29 09:47:47 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 08:47:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <46FE5017.90108@141.com> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> <46FDCF04.1020702@razzolink.com> <46FE5017.90108@141.com> Message-ID: <46FE73A3.2030401@razzolink.com> Susan Kahler wrote: > Now, I am a novice initiate when it comes to you, TeriAnn! I am always > amazed at your experience and knowledge. > That's a lot of big, heavy stuff -- no wonder nails have been broken! A > Spitfire engine is like building a model next to that. ;) But what a > huge difference it will make in your LR. Good luck with it! Thanks, but I did get help. I had a friend over to lift the diff out and in and to put 150 lbft torque on four bolts. TeriAnn From WEmery7451 at aol.com Sat Sep 29 10:18:03 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:18:03 EDT Subject: [Fot] No oil pressure Message-ID: Whenever I have run into this problem a few times, it has been one of the following: -Accidentally mounted an oil cooler sandwich wrong between the filter and the block. -A piece of gasket got lodged in one of the above sandwich oil passage holes. -The pin on top of the oil pump drive gear came out, allowing the oil drive shaft to jump up out of the oil pump. -The clean out 1/8" pipe plugs were left out of the crankshaft. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillB at bnj.com Sat Sep 29 10:23:31 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:23:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? References: <20070928.220613.5810.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: None of us really need freeze plugs unless you store your car in an unheated garage with water in it. I use screws around the edge to retain everything, topped with a nice coating of JB weld over a new plug. End of problem. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Joe Boruch Sent: Fri 9/28/2007 7:06 PM To: budscars at msn.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? I lost a freeze plug on my Spitfire years ago and more recently had one leaking on a head that I rebuilt for my TR3. Both were plugs that were in place for years. From now on, I will replace them as part of the build up, so that I know what I have. With my Spitfire I drilled and tapped 4-40 screws next to the freeze plug as a little more insurance to retain the plug. Joe(B) -- "RACER BUD" wrote: Hi Jay....I don't know what TR you are racing, ..I have a new engine in my Spitfire....and the new freeze plugs are leaking..without even being on the track.....I've been told that now that the blocks are getting old, that putting a sealer in the water system is a normal thing ? I could use some input here too. Thanks Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Creel" To: "greg" ; "FOT LIST" Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? > While racing today at LRP, I lost the head gasket. Brand new motor, only > 2 sessions of time on it. Upon inspection, the rear freezeplug had "left > the building". So my question is this, is it more likely the gasket > failure caused the freezeplug to go or the other way around? > > This motor was brand new, and it was put together (dad and myself) > effectively. This motor doesn't leak and it has power so why would the > gasket go so quickly? This is why I am leaning towards the freezeplug as > the cause and the gasket as the effect.... > > Thoughts... > > Thanks > Jay > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Vonage - Official Site $24.99/mo. for unlimited local and long distance calls! http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/JKFkuJO6WhXb5tcDhnoirvNVPggxbMyu 4tRC2AwOzraMz1QEptbT9f/ billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sat Sep 29 10:37:50 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:37:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: I was wondering how that possibly could stand. Especially since Terri and Susan are two of the most knowledgeable members of the FOT. I started to respond to the thread earlier with my technique for spending what I want on my toys, but realized that I don't really have one. I'm doubly blessed, not only with comfortable finances, but also with a wife that doesn't keep score. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Susan Kahler Sent: Fri 9/28/2007 7:41 PM To: dos_gusanos at msn.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P Susan :) dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper > trail.................................. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sat Sep 29 10:48:19 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 10:48:19 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Oil pressure problem solved Message-ID: <000501c802b8$8ab1df50$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> The fact I was not using an old pump drive shaft or something of similar diameter seemed to be the cause. I chucked one up in the drill & gave it a spin and just about pegged the gauge. I suppose I'm glad it was not something stupid I did during assembly. If it was, the whole motor would be suspect. Now, to get it fired up :) Thanks to all who advised. Jim Gray # 102 RMVR From BillB at bnj.com Sat Sep 29 10:50:04 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:50:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Oil pressure problem solved References: <000501c802b8$8ab1df50$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Message-ID: I assume you are turning the shaft with the drill in reverse. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of James Gray Sent: Sat 9/29/2007 9:48 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Oil pressure problem solved The fact I was not using an old pump drive shaft or something of similar diameter seemed to be the cause. I chucked one up in the drill & gave it a spin and just about pegged the gauge. I suppose I'm glad it was not something stupid I did during assembly. If it was, the whole motor would be suspect. Now, to get it fired up :) Thanks to all who advised. Jim Gray # 102 RMVR billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 11:01:37 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 10:01:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0709291001v320cce33r687629ea16c898ea@mail.gmail.com> OK, time to weigh in. My wife gladly lets me race and spend whatever I want!!!! The only catch [thee is always a catch] she gets a $ added to "her account only bank account" for every dollar I spend. A $4000 crank is not on the list. A 1500 Salisbury and a 600 close ratio gear set is for the winter. The only problem with the deal is, we know exactly what gets spent on the car, but I never know what is an expense that should go to her "hobby" money and what should come out of our common expenses. Good luck with the rebild Bill -- the pictures are excellent. On 9/29/07, Bill Babcock wrote: > > I was wondering how that possibly could stand. Especially sinc's e Terri > and > Susan are two of the most knowledgeable members of the FOT. > > I started to respond to the thread earlier with my technique for spending > what > I want on my toys, but realized that I don't really have one. I'm doubly > blessed, not only with comfortable finances, but also with a wife that > doesn't > keep score. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Susan Kahler > Sent: Fri 9/28/2007 7:41 PM > To: dos_gusanos at msn.com > Cc: Friends of Triumph > Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > > Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank > from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine > around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P > > Susan :) > > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: > > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up > of > > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage > with > > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper > > trail.................................. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > > > > -- > ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then > beat > you with experience. ** > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From spitfiresuz at 141.com Sat Sep 29 11:20:22 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:20:22 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: <46FE8956.3020202@141.com> That is an awesome situation to be in, Bill! You are definitely blessed. Teri, one of the most knowledgeable on the list absolutely without a doubt. Me, well, I know some stuff but am blessed with Brad and the kindness of everyone who shares knowledge on this list. FOT rocks!!! :) (Henry was only funning - he's seen my old garage!) Susan :) Bill Babcock wrote: > > I was wondering how that possibly could stand. Especially since Terri > and Susan are two of the most knowledgeable members of the FOT. > > I started to respond to the thread earlier with my technique for > spending what I want on my toys, but realized that I don't really have > one. I'm doubly blessed, not only with comfortable finances, but also > with a wife that doesn't keep score. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Susan Kahler > Sent: Fri 9/28/2007 7:41 PM > To: dos_gusanos at msn.com > Cc: Friends of Triumph > Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > > Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank > from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine > around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P > > Susan :) > > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: > > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line > up of > > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage > with > > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper > > trail.................................. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > > > > -- > ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level > then beat you with experience. ** > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1036 - Release Date: 9/28/2007 3:40 PM > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From igofaster at charter.net Sat Sep 29 17:57:55 2007 From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 16:57:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] New member prospective Message-ID: <20070929195755.SNUGJ.78150.root@fepweb07> Well guys, thank you for inviting me into the FoT! I'm really appreciative of the friendship and knowledge everyone is sharing and passing along. I really have to publically thank George Curl for taking me under his wing when I went to CVAR driver school at TWS. The #33 GT6 I bought from Bob Davis is beautifully prepared and has been a dream come true for me. The car is fantastic and he is one of many of you guys and gals that should be commended for the quality and knowledge of the old Triumphs which is keeping the relevant, viable , and racing. I appreciate the information everyone is sharing with me to start working on my CVAR transmission issue. I support CVAR in their effort to keep the cars as closely as they were to original. I have no desire to sell the T50 Toyota gearbox, as I won't mind moving it in and out if I choose to participate with other organizations, or another GT if I build one. FYI, I'm listing my 1969 GT6+ on eBay sunday. I've been working on the car casually over the last 10 years or so. It is an interesting car. If someone is looking for a good GT6... it's got potential. Thanks for sharing again, the FoT network... now ..... where can I get some of those cool FoT window stickers I've seen on my car and others? Kindest regards, ya'll..... Bobby Whitehead Texas USA From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 08:38:24 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 10:38:24 EDT Subject: [Fot] FoT Stickers The LOGO seen around the world. Message-ID: FoT & Bobby, I have a stock of the FOT Decals somewhere around my desk. Bobby Whitehead asks for access to these....seems like I should dispose of a few of these to the benefit of the FOT Coffers. Joe Curry might have a few, but I took most of his last overrun and paid him for them. This decal makes frequent apprearances on cars and tow vehicles and tool boxes. Then it appears in magazines. (Not to mention Ted Schumacher's Shirts with the FoT Logo.....and the line from Kas Kastner "Never be beaten by equipment".) Anyway, send $5.00 for each 3' x 4" decal to: Friends of Triumph 645 1st Street Jesup, Iowa 50648 I will send then anywhere in the world by return mail. I'll donate the postage..... Joe Alexander From spitlist at cox.net Sun Sep 30 08:42:21 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:42:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FoT Stickers The LOGO seen around the world. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301c80370$1bbf1ff0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> I will be bringing my entire selection of Decals to Laughlin (Triumphest) in a few days. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 7:38 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] FoT Stickers The LOGO seen around the world. FoT & Bobby, I have a stock of the FOT Decals somewhere around my desk. Bobby Whitehead asks for access to these....seems like I should dispose of a few of these to the benefit of the FOT Coffers. Joe Curry might have a few, but I took most of his last overrun and paid him for them. This decal makes frequent apprearances on cars and tow vehicles and tool boxes. Then it appears in magazines. (Not to mention Ted Schumacher's Shirts with the FoT Logo.....and the line from Kas Kastner "Never be beaten by equipment".) Anyway, send $5.00 for each 3' x 4" decal to: Friends of Triumph 645 1st Street Jesup, Iowa 50648 I will send then anywhere in the world by return mail. I'll donate the postage..... Joe Alexander spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 08:48:55 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 10:48:55 EDT Subject: [Fot] 'Shirt Guys' are in Place for Watkins Glen Message-ID: FoT, Led by Scott Janzen, it looks like Marty Sukey and the Kahlers are involved, too. Scott is going to contact Shirt Supplier Ted Schumacher, for selections and quotes. The last run Ted made, he priced them to kick back a few bucks to the FoT Coffers. This is a welcome feature and we look forward to receiving the cash. Thanks, Ted! This WATKINS GLEN event shirt may end up being something really special. Plenty of time to be creative....and the right folks are in place. We may consider some advertising on the back of the shirt to defray set up costs. We likely will limit the number of advertisers, if we do it, so we dont clutter the shirt. If you are interested in advertising your company on the back of this shirt....please contact me. Joe Alexander From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Sep 30 09:06:15 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:06:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] elgibility question Message-ID: Hey you folks that run with all the different organizations. What is the current cut off year for vehicle elgibility for your Vintage race groups? Thanks, Marty _________________________________________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m kt=en-us From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 09:20:15 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:20:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] Laughlin, NV The Triumphest.... was FOT, The LOGO seen around the world. Message-ID: Triumphest! Good point! A few of us FoT will be at Laughlin for a few days. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday for Uncle Jack & Kent Howard. Joe Curry, will be there, as he says. Then some of us will visit the VARA Race in Las Vegas late Friday and Saturday. Anymore? Joe (A) > I will be bringing my entire selection of Decals to Laughlin (Triumphest) in > a few days. > > Joe C. > From tony at tonydrews.com Sun Sep 30 10:00:28 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:00:28 -0500 Subject: [Fot] elgibility question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070930160125.D808A187A28@autox.team.net> For VSCDA in the midwest, for production cars (I assume that's what you're really after), it's 1973. The model must have been in production in 1973, although your particular example may have been built after that. For monoposto, the cutoff is 1972. For "wings and slicks" monoposto, it's 1979. SVRA is similar. Most of the organizations list this on their websites. http://www.vscda.org/groups.html http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/weblinks/EJEN-5ZGGEU?OpenDocument http://www.hsrrace.com/HSR/HSRHome.nsf/attachmentweb/EJEN-62LRZH/$file/Race+Series+Classes.pdf?OpenElement http://vintagedrive.com/groups.htm (vdca) http://www.varac.ca/classes.html http://www.corinthianvintagerace.com/forms/cvarclasses.html (cvar) http://rmvr.com/category/groups/ I'm missing some of the west coast groups, I'm sure. - Tony At 10:06 AM 9/30/2007, marty sukey wrote: >Hey you folks that run with all the different organizations. What is the >current cut off year for vehicle elgibility for your Vintage race groups? >Thanks, > >Marty > >_________________________________________________________________ >Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. >It's easy! >http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m >kt=en-us >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >tony at tonydrews.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Sun Sep 30 10:13:24 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 09:13:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] elgibility question In-Reply-To: <20070930160125.D808A187A28@autox.team.net> References: <20070930160125.D808A187A28@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0709300913p2498635do1b9df7be0f2245b8@mail.gmail.com> For SOVREN in the Pacific Northwest, it is 1969. Some are arguing for 1972, but I sense there is much resistance -- that would cause some people to "upgrade" their cars -- and it is the cars not the drivers this group ties to emphasize. On 9/30/07, Tony Drews wrote: > > For VSCDA in the midwest, for production cars (I assume that's what > you're really after), it's 1973. The model must have been in > production in 1973, although your particular example may have been > built after that. For monoposto, the cutoff is 1972. For "wings and > slicks" monoposto, it's 1979. SVRA is similar. Most of the > organizations list this on their websites. > http://www.vscda.org/groups.html > http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/weblinks/EJEN-5ZGGEU?OpenDocument > > http://www.hsrrace.com/HSR/HSRHome.nsf/attachmentweb/EJEN-62LRZH/$file/Race+Series+Classes.pdf?OpenElement > > http://vintagedrive.com/groups.htm (vdca) > http://www.varac.ca/classes.html > http://www.corinthianvintagerace.com/forms/cvarclasses.html (cvar) > http://rmvr.com/category/groups/ > > I'm missing some of the west coast groups, I'm sure. > > - Tony > > At 10:06 AM 9/30/2007, marty sukey wrote: > >Hey you folks that run with all the different organizations. What is the > >current cut off year for vehicle elgibility for your Vintage race groups? > >Thanks, > > > >Marty > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live > Spaces. > >It's easy! > > > http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m > >kt=en-us > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >tony at tonydrews.com > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From spitfiresuz at 141.com Sun Sep 30 11:20:24 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 12:20:24 -0500 Subject: [Fot] elgibility question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46FFDAD8.3030504@141.com> CVAR is 1972, although I believe you may run up to a 1974 car that has been backdated to 1972 or earlier (no features that were not available in 1972). They have been working hard to crack down and get cars into the proper specs so we all play by the rules and not infringe upon them. Here's their eligibility paragraph: * 1. VEHICLE ELIGIBILITY / / * *All cars manufactured Prior to December 31. 1972, of any make or nationality are eligible, subject to classification under the current CVAR Vintage Race Car Classification Rules and/or approval of the Corinthian Vintage Auto Racing Corp. (CVAR) Vehicle Regulation Committee. December 31,1974 for vintage race cars that would be assigned to CVAR FIA class. All cars must be presented in race configuration consistent with their original period of manufacture. Modifications for safety purposes are permitted. Modifications may disqualify a car from its being placed in correct race group and as a result, be assigned to another appropriate race group or possibly be allowed only to participate in the Exhibition Group (Group 5). In addition, those cars may not be eligible to participate in CVAR's Championship Point . Rules for cars that are eligible to participate only in the Exhibition/Demonstration (Non-Race Group) Group are contained in paragraph 9. No turbo charged cars.* Keep Triumphing, Susan :) marty sukey wrote: > Hey you folks that run with all the different organizations. What is the > current cut off year for vehicle elgibility for your Vintage race groups? > Thanks, > > Marty > > _________________________________________________________________ > Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. > It's easy! > http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m > kt=en-us > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 30 12:31:57 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:31:57 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c80390$30fdea20$8d20b348@blake1> So, as a FOT wife I can hardly contain myself. I hear my husband tell stories of the many email threads and this one I could not pass up a comment. I think one of my husband's most prized positions in his garage hall of fame is the chrome viper piston I presented to him from my old job at Hennessey Motorsports. If you would like to talk about comfortable finances, let me know. I too can pick out the good from the crap. Please be aware before you start spouting off at the women on this list, that many of us had no brothers so we had to be the son for our daddies. Changing the oil in our mustangs at 16 and teaching our boyfriends how to do things on their cars. I challenge you to open your wife's jewelry drawer and pick out the real from the crap, or better yet pick the good pair out of the 6 pairs of black heels. Again, as said earlier, as long as theirs a paper trail to cover it right? But who is keeping score. After all it is all for fun right? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 11:38 AM To: Susan Kahler; dos_gusanos at msn.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot I was wondering how that possibly could stand. Especially since Terri and Susan are two of the most knowledgeable members of the FOT. I started to respond to the thread earlier with my technique for spending what I want on my toys, but realized that I don't really have one. I'm doubly blessed, not only with comfortable finances, but also with a wife that doesn't keep score. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Susan Kahler Sent: Fri 9/28/2007 7:41 PM To: dos_gusanos at msn.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P Susan :) dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper > trail.................................. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ablake2 at austin.rr.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 11:34:01 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:34:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] elgibility question Message-ID: "Carry Through" years in design, too, make certain cars eligible. 1962 TR4 did not change substantially until the IRS made it's appearance, even then it had a solid axle option until the TR250 arrived. A 1965 TR4 can run in "VINTAGE" even though it was produced later than the cutoff date of the sanctioning body. But most everyone likely knows this.... > CVAR is 1972, although I believe you may run up to a 1974 car that has > been backdated to 1972 or earlier (no features that were not available > in 1972). They have been working hard to crack down and get cars into > the proper specs so we all play by the rules and not infringe upon them. > > Here's their eligibility paragraph: > From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 11:47:49 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:47:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: "So, as a FOT wife I can hardly contain myself." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------- We've come a long way.... You should hear the video tape of local sportscaster Bob Brooks announcing the '53 and '54 LADIES Class races at the Iowa City Airport. It makes me cringe everytime I hear it. And to boot, Brooks knew nothing about cars, absolutely nothing....it made it very funny. Joe (A) > So, as a FOT wife I can hardly contain myself. > From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Sun Sep 30 12:13:48 2007 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:13:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070930131348.ttmc2sriocsok8c8@secure.uwalumni.com> Quoth N197TR4 at cs.com: > We've come a long way.... > > You should hear the video tape of local sportscaster Bob Brooks announcing > the '53 and '54 LADIES Class races at the Iowa City Airport. It > makes me cringe everytime I hear it. Back in the day (late 50's, early 60's) the CalClub/SCCA race for women only was called the "POWDER PUFF DERBY". Use of that term today would probably be a hanging offense. Jim Hill From spitfiresuz at 141.com Sun Sep 30 12:23:58 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:23:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <20070930131348.ttmc2sriocsok8c8@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <20070930131348.ttmc2sriocsok8c8@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <46FFE9BE.3050002@141.com> I took a course at the local repair shop back around 1982 that was called "Powder Puff Mechanics" and involved such things as how to check and change your oil and windshield washer fluid. I don't think we ever got to changing a tire. When I developed and taught a similar class in Dallas from around 1997-1999, I called it "Basic Car Care for Women," and it involved checking fluids on the students' own cars, how to "read" tires, how to change a tire (with student participation) and how to stay safe in the event of a problem on the road, among other things. I feel VERY strongly that anyone driving a car needs to know the basics about taking proper care of it and staying safe should something happen to it. Funny how some things come full circle... ;) Keep Triumphing, Susan :) spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: > Quoth N197TR4 at cs.com: > > >> We've come a long way.... >> >> You should hear the video tape of local sportscaster Bob Brooks announcing >> the '53 and '54 LADIES Class races at the Iowa City Airport. It >> makes me cringe everytime I hear it. >> > > Back in the day (late 50's, early 60's) the CalClub/SCCA race for > women only was called the "POWDER PUFF DERBY". Use of that term today > would probably be a hanging offense. > > Jim Hill > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From m-syork at comcast.net Sun Sep 30 13:47:15 2007 From: m-syork at comcast.net (Mark York) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 12:47:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets Message-ID: <000c01c8039a$b4139bd0$36b3c547@markv8zno7deim> I delivered a gasket set I purchased fro BFE to the shop building my TR3/4 race engine and they want copper figure 8 gaskets instead of the steel ones in the set. They claim that the copper gaskets seal much better and have stopped the build waiting on the new gaskets. What are your thoughts copper vs steel? Does the copper gasket allow them to be "looser" when building the engine? Are these gaskets really steel or some other material? Who makes copper figure 8 gaskets (maybe Mordy)? Thank you Mark From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sun Sep 30 14:01:24 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:01:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets References: <000c01c8039a$b4139bd0$36b3c547@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: <002b01c8039c$adfd4fa0$0501000a@Chowdown> Another question.. Are the copper ones also covered with a thin plastic film? ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark York" To: Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 12:47 PM Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets >I delivered a gasket set I purchased fro BFE to the shop building my TR3/4 > race engine and they want copper figure 8 gaskets instead of the steel > ones > in the set. They claim that the copper gaskets seal much better and have > stopped the build waiting on the new gaskets. What are your thoughts > copper > vs steel? Does the copper gasket allow them to be "looser" when building > the > engine? Are these gaskets really steel or some other material? > > Who makes copper figure 8 gaskets (maybe Mordy)? > > Thank you > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 30 14:02:06 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:02:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets In-Reply-To: <000c01c8039a$b4139bd0$36b3c547@markv8zno7deim> References: <000c01c8039a$b4139bd0$36b3c547@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: <0C69A719-CE92-4442-BFCA-A5ACFE1D8D78@bnj.com> Copper figure eight gaskets sound nice, but I'd get out a cattle prod and get them back to work (unless it's Garmey, and in that case you need a Sheep prod--sort of a Kiwi joke there). The gaskets are mostly space. If you got some teeny grit on the sealing faces then a highly annealed copper gasket might let it punch in instead of standing proud, but that's pretty out there. I can't imagine copper gaskets deforming under the sealing pressure of a cylinder base--too much surface area and the copper is too wide and too hard. Mordy undoubtedly knows best, but it sounds goofy to me. A thin coat of right stuff on a stocker gasket, and just the right thickness to stand all the cylinder flanges evenly above the block face a couple of thou (after you put the head on without a gasket and torque it to about ten pounds, then remove it and check the cylinder protrusion) and Bob's yer uncle. Who is doing the work for you? If it really is Garmey, forget I said anything, the kid knows what he's doing. Or at least Gene, his father in law, does. On Sep 30, 2007, at 12:47 PM, Mark York wrote: > I delivered a gasket set I purchased fro BFE to the shop building > my TR3/4 > race engine and they want copper figure 8 gaskets instead of the > steel ones > in the set. They claim that the copper gaskets seal much better and > have > stopped the build waiting on the new gaskets. What are your > thoughts copper > vs steel? Does the copper gasket allow them to be "looser" when > building the > engine? Are these gaskets really steel or some other material? > > Who makes copper figure 8 gaskets (maybe Mordy)? > > Thank you > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 15:42:40 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:42:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets Message-ID: I really dont think it makes a difference. We have used both. In fact I dont remember seeing copper gaskets recently. We have made and used circular gasket in mild steel in different thicknesses with the laser process, when setting liner height. In any case, NEVER a problem with sealing at the liner seat, that I ever remember. But Mordy, I suspect, could make you some. Joe (A) > > I delivered a gasket set I purchased fro BFE to the shop building my TR3/4 > race engine and they want copper figure 8 gaskets instead of the steel ones > in the set. They claim that the copper gaskets seal much better and have > stopped the build waiting on the new gaskets. What are your thoughts copper > vs steel? Does the copper gasket allow them to be "looser" when building the > engine? Are these gaskets really steel or some other material? > > Who makes copper figure 8 gaskets (maybe Mordy)? > > Thank you > > Mark > From chris at tr4-racing.de Sun Sep 30 15:57:27 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:57:27 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife.... Message-ID: <002301c803ac$e4b7d410$6402a8c0@HOME> Some photos from the last week Nordschleife race.... http://www.tr4-racing.de/pic/2007/nordschleife/index.html cheers chris From chris at tr4-racing.de Sun Sep 30 16:10:07 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 00:10:07 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife.... References: <002301c803ac$e4b7d410$6402a8c0@HOME> <47001DD0.80001@blacksburg.net> Message-ID: <003501c803ae$aeed01a0$6402a8c0@HOME> Very true....but next year....I DO race on this track! > Chris, schade Ihr TR4 ist nicht da :-( > > Jim > > -- > J.C. Hassall > Blacksburg VA > 64 TR4 in autox preparation > 95% finished, 90% to go From chris at tr4-racing.de Sun Sep 30 16:22:20 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 00:22:20 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife.... Message-ID: <004501c803b0$5e73bd70$6402a8c0@HOME> This guy has crashed flies on the side windows.. :-)) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Thomd4BQg From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 16:38:41 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 18:38:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] Engine Autopsy TR4 #197 short version Message-ID: FOT The short version is that it appears that the valves siezed in #2 cylinder....the bronze guides may not have been clearanced enough. Jack checked them at .002 & .0025 ID. We are going back to OEM style guides. Too many horror stories and no real benefit in bronze, methinks. The outcomes were bent push rods, bent valves, destroyed piston and liner & bent (but not broken) con rod. Block is junk, but crank appears to be intact with only a nice polish of journals needed. I remain very pleased with the idea of the Chevy Rods residing in this engine and plan to stay the course. Perhaps some Wiseco Pistons are in my future, as they require no pin end spacers to centralize the rod. I was hoping that the camshaft had been destroyed, as it would have caused me to replace it with the new cam design that now available from Larry Young. After observing The Drews Brothers, there is something of substance going on there for those who like to run fast in the mid-range of RPM. (Hats off to Larry Young...with Jack participating in the process) Joe (A) From billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 30 18:04:06 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:04:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear end In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <662E429B-D787-440A-8245-068C82092DDF@bnj.com> I'm rebuilding the bits of Peyote while waiting for the fame to be done. Got most of the bends and tweaks out last week, now I need to weld up the cracks and have a few minor mods to the roll cage done. I want a little more room in the driver's compartment. Anyway, I decided to redo the diff and put in the 3.90 gearset I have. When I took the cover off I found all the ring gear bolts were finger tight--most were turned out several turns, and one was completely out and bouncing around in the diff case--for some time it seems. I found one of the wheel bearings has some rough spots in it, probably brinneling. I'll replace both. The big surprise was that once I put the new gearset in, it was perfect as far as shimming is concerned. I'm kind of surprised by that. The gear engagement patterns were perfectly centered, deep in the tooth, with a little bit of drag. I'm wondering if these gears are a bit more precisely made than I expected. Took me hours to get that kind of engagement with the previous set. Does anyone know what the tunnels are for in the diff case? They look like they would be perfect for using the ring gear as a pump wheel for pumping diff oil through a cooler. I assume they are to lube the front pinion bearing, but they look a little too purposeful for that. I wonder how many more runs I could have had with that diff before it blew to bits. From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net Sun Sep 30 19:31:59 2007 From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 21:31:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Rear end Message-ID: <380-2200710111315979@earthlink.net> Bill...caught that diff just in time!!...you are correct, the tunnels in the case are for lubricating the pinion bearing Chip Collingwood > [Original Message] > From: Bill Babcock > To: fot Triumph > Date: 9/30/2007 8:04:39 PM > Subject: [Fot] Rear end > > I'm rebuilding the bits of Peyote while waiting for the fame to be > done. Got most of the bends and tweaks out last week, now I need to > weld up the cracks and have a few minor mods to the roll cage done. I > want a little more room in the driver's compartment. > > Anyway, I decided to redo the diff and put in the 3.90 gearset I > have. When I took the cover off I found all the ring gear bolts were > finger tight--most were turned out several turns, and one was > completely out and bouncing around in the diff case--for some time it > seems. > > I found one of the wheel bearings has some rough spots in it, > probably brinneling. I'll replace both. The big surprise was that > once I put the new gearset in, it was perfect as far as shimming is > concerned. I'm kind of surprised by that. The gear engagement > patterns were perfectly centered, deep in the tooth, with a little > bit of drag. I'm wondering if these gears are a bit more precisely > made than I expected. Took me hours to get that kind of engagement > with the previous set. > > Does anyone know what the tunnels are for in the diff case? They look > like they would be perfect for using the ring gear as a pump wheel > for pumping diff oil through a cooler. I assume they are to lube the > front pinion bearing, but they look a little too purposeful for that. > > I wonder how many more runs I could have had with that diff before it > blew to bits. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > tr6racer21 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1039 - Release Date: 9/29/2007 9:46 PM From billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 30 19:39:24 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 18:39:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife.... In-Reply-To: <004501c803b0$5e73bd70$6402a8c0@HOME> References: <004501c803b0$5e73bd70$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <8FF07827-6182-4BC4-A8EF-078355CFDA13@bnj.com> I think the Nordschleife would be fun with a Radical, you'd have to set the ride height up pretty height though. A lot of those curves beg for light weight and some ground effects. On Sep 30, 2007, at 3:22 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > This guy has crashed flies on the side windows.. :-)) > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Thomd4BQg > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sun Sep 30 19:41:09 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:41:09 +1000 Subject: [Fot] Oil Filter Message-ID: Is anyone on the list using the "PURE POWER" type of reusable / cleanable filters on their engine? If so do you have some feedback on this product? I am looking at this alternative to replace the STD filter insert on the TR4 engine. Thanks Kind Regards Peter Vucinic TR-4 _____________________________________________ Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 30 19:45:46 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 18:45:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife.... In-Reply-To: <002301c803ac$e4b7d410$6402a8c0@HOME> References: <002301c803ac$e4b7d410$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: Nice pix. That reminds me, I posted a full gallery of the AllAluminumTour photos at http://gallery.mac.com/billbab I didn't remove the duplicates or add captions yet, so it's kind of a mess, though it's arranged by events thanks to the new event feature in iPhoto. On Sep 30, 2007, at 2:57 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > Some photos from the last week Nordschleife race.... > > > http://www.tr4-racing.de/pic/2007/nordschleife/index.html > > cheers > chris > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Sun Sep 30 20:00:09 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:00:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Oil Filter References: Message-ID: Hi Peter.I would put on an adapter for a spin on filter...you can always keep the original stuff on your garage shelf in case you want to sell or show the car Racer Bud in sonoma, Ca. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Vucinic" To: Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:41 PM Subject: [Fot] Oil Filter > Is anyone on the list using the "PURE POWER" type of reusable / cleanable > filters on their engine? > > If so do you have some feedback on this product? > > > > I am looking at this alternative to replace the STD filter insert on the > TR4 > engine. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Kind Regards > > Peter Vucinic > > TR-4 > > _____________________________________________ > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Sun Sep 30 20:34:20 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 02:34:20 GMT Subject: [Fot] Bill Troup's TR4 Message-ID: <20070930.223420.11184.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> While at racing at the SCCA NARRC Chapionship race at Lime Rock this past weekend some folks that raced in the 1960's-70's were telling me about a TR4 that Bill Troup (spelling???) built and raced in the Northeast. Sounded like a car that was ahead of its time. Is anyone familiar with what happened to the car? Apparently Bill passed away some time ago and no one that I came across knew what happened to the car. Joe(B) _____________________________________________________________ Largest network of startups. Find new startup opportunities. Click here. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlQfILSztxbTZwew2l7Kv0yZSO 8EeKiUMGpbYyvqLlWgoamO/ From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Sun Sep 30 21:03:12 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:03:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Bill Troup's TR4 In-Reply-To: <20070930.223420.11184.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> References: <20070930.223420.11184.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <000901c803d7$9bf3fe90$1442a8c0@semperon3400> Bill Troop (I think that's how it was spelled) was a teacher or principle of one of the prep schools in the area I believe. He had a nice wife and pretty daughter as crew. I remember him stripping the shell off his new enclosed trailer towing around the track at Lime Rock and under the bridge... It must have been in the early '80s last I saw him at the track. Probably a NER member, he was an instructor at the MoHud SCCA driver school at least once. I should have photos somewhere... Of course. Nice dark green car. He suddenly stopped coming to races, perhaps something happened over the winter back then or the daughter went to college...? Clark From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 30 21:40:30 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 22:40:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets References: Message-ID: <005801c803dc$d346cc60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Isn't the difference in the thickness? If I recall the copper, which are no longer sold measure around 17 thou and the steel ones are closer to 15. It's nice to have a couple of thicker ones in the spares box when you want to get the protrusion correct with some of the liners on the market today. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets >I really dont think it makes a difference. We have used both. In fact I >dont > remember seeing copper gaskets recently. > > We have made and used circular gasket in mild steel in different > thicknesses > with the laser process, when setting liner height. > > In any case, NEVER a problem with sealing at the liner seat, that I ever > remember. > > But Mordy, I suspect, could make you some. > > Joe (A) > > >> >> I delivered a gasket set I purchased fro BFE to the shop building my >> TR3/4 >> race engine and they want copper figure 8 gaskets instead of the steel >> ones >> in the set. They claim that the copper gaskets seal much better and have >> stopped the build waiting on the new gaskets. What are your thoughts >> copper >> vs steel? Does the copper gasket allow them to be "looser" when building >> the >> engine? Are these gaskets really steel or some other material? >> >> Who makes copper figure 8 gaskets (maybe Mordy)? >> >> Thank you >> >> Mark >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Sat Sep 1 21:23:58 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 21:23:58 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Colfax Cruise Message-ID: <20070901.212359.3860.9.wgrosenbach@juno.com> For those in the area. . . Please see the information below about the Colfax Avenue Cruise. COLFAX AVENUE CRUISE  2007 The Colfax Avenue Cruise will be held September 22, 2007. This is an event that Old Car Council of Colorado has had in the planning stage for two years. Sponsorship is in place and here is what is planned. The cruise will have three sites set up on Colfax Avenue. The sites are the Super K-Mart at Colfax Aveny ue and Chambers Road, East High School, and the Festival Center at Colfax Avenue and Irving Street in west Denver. Each site will have a car display by OCCC member cars, music, food vendors, car club displays, and other car-related displays by vendors. The sites will operate from 4 pm to 8 pm. The car club members working at the sites will help with site set-up, site operation, and site clean up. The Colorado Chapter of POCI will be teamed with the Colorado Cobra Club and the Packard Club to operate the site at East High School. The Sabers Club and the AMC Club will anchor the Aurora site and the Denver Roadster Club and the ColoRODans will man the site in west Denver. The promotion of the Colfax Avenue Cruise will be by radio station KOOL105. The radio station will also help with music at each of the sites. The charity to benefit from the event is D.A.R.E.. D.A.R.E officers will be present at each site and have a display vehicle and give-aways for kids. The main sponsors of the event are the network of Colorado Select Car Care Centers and NAPA Auto Parts. The money from the sponsors will be used to finance operation of the sites (permits, security, rental of equipment), fund a donation to D.A.R.E., and the fund the operation of OCCC. The car clubs operating the sites will profit from the sale of tee shirt s and fees from the vendors at the sites. The Colfax Avenue Cruise is going to be great and you will want to get in on the ground floor of this annual event. This event needs your support. We need to have a variety of cars on display at the sites on Saturday, September 22. The Colfax Avenue Cruse an event that is important to the future of the old car hobby. It is important that this event be a success so that we strengthening the financial position of the Old Car Council of Colorado. We believe that the OCCC is an important organization in the preservation of the old cars. Make a Commitment and join us to support the old car hobby. From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 2 17:29:26 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 19:29:26 EDT Subject: [Fot] Multi function brake switch Message-ID: Amici, Does anyone know of a hydraulic brake switch with both normally open and normally closed contacts. When you push the brakes the brake light circuit closes but another circuit opens? Any idea how to find such a thing? Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 2 17:36:51 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 19:36:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Multi function brake switch Message-ID: In a message dated 9/2/2007 4:34:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, mdporter at dfn.com writes: > > Amici, > > Does anyone know of a hydraulic brake switch with both normally open and > > normally closed contacts. When you push the brakes the brake light > circuit closes > > but another circuit opens? Any idea how to find such a thing? Steve > > > > > > > > > Never heard of such, but, whatever you want to do with something like > that can be done with a relay in the circuit. > > > Quite true, I'm just trying to avoid that complexity in an already overcrowded Jaguar engine bay...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 2 18:10:15 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 20:10:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] Multi function brake switch Message-ID: Almost exactly the same need. I want to drop out the OD circuit on a 700R4 trans when the brakes are applied. Do you have any numbers for those Bosch switches? Thanx, Steve Steve, You can use a commodity Bosch relay. These have normally open and normally closed contacts. They are apparently used all over modern cars, so can be had very cheaply. I use one for my overdrive wiring, so that I can use the a switch on the reverse gear to lock out the overdrive, which is opposite from the normal switch arrangement. Larry _Gt6steve at aol.com_ (mailto:Gt6steve at aol.com) wrote Almost exactly my ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From cartravel at pobox.com Sun Sep 2 18:49:14 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 19:49:14 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Multi function brake switch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46DB5A0A.2050408@pobox.com> I believe this is the one I'm using http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=330-070. Some of the stuff sold at Napa, etc. don't have both circuits (SPST not SPDT). Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: > Almost exactly the same need. I want to drop out the OD circuit on a > 700R4 trans when the brakes are applied. Do you have any numbers for > those Bosch switches? > > Thanx, Steve > > Steve, > You can use a commodity Bosch relay. These have normally open and > normally closed contacts. They are apparently used all over > modern cars, so can be had very cheaply. I use one for my > overdrive wiring, so that I can use the a switch on the reverse > gear to lock out the overdrive, which is opposite from the normal > switch arrangement. > Larry > > Gt6steve at aol.com wrote > > Almost exactly my > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com > . From awashatko at wi.rr.com Mon Sep 3 10:31:27 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 11:31:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 TR6 Front Brakes Message-ID: FoT, Does anyone have any technical information regarding the use of Jag calipers/rotors/hubs on the Group 44 TR6? VSCDA would allow me to run these but I can't seem to find any specific information. Any help would be much appreciated. Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Mon Sep 3 12:12:50 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 11:12:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 TR6 Front Brakes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46DC4EA2.8060608@cyberspeedway.net> Allen, As I remember, the Jag brakes were allowed in 1980. They are originally from the XKE V12 and god knows what else. They are the odd 3 piston design. The part numbers are still in the PCS. The rotors are the same as XKE V12 and XJ6. I think Rod Kent has drawings for the hub and spindle from Group 44. I will see if I can get them. Greg Lund Allen Washatko wrote: > FoT, > > Does anyone have any technical information regarding the use of Jag > calipers/rotors/hubs on the Group 44 TR6? VSCDA would allow me to run > these but I can't seem to find any specific information. > > Any help would be much appreciated. > > Allen > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gtlund at cyberspeedway.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Sep 3 13:09:22 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 15:09:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Group 44 TR6 Front Brakes Message-ID: In a message dated 09/03/2007 1:13:20 PM Central Daylight Time, gtlund at cyberspeedway.net writes: > As I remember, the Jag brakes were allowed in 1980. They are > originally from the XKE V12 and god knows what else. They are the odd 3 > piston design. The part numbers are still in the PCS. The rotors are the > same as XKE V12 and XJ6. I think Rod Kent has drawings for the hub and > spindle from Group 44. I will see if I can get them. > Allen... I'm leaving late tonight for WATKINS GLEN, but I plan to be back in time to run ELKHART LAKE the following week end. We may have some of that stuff. The Thunder Bolt had early XKE brakes on the front when we started out with her. But we busted a rotor at Blackhawk one time and instead of replacing it we detuned to TR4 disc brakes (because we understand them). Regardless, that stuff should be available from JAG spare houses like Terry's Jaguar. Bill Terry is a neat, dependable guy. Bill Dentinger ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Mon Sep 3 15:15:30 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 14:15:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 TR6 Front Brakes In-Reply-To: <000001c7ee5d$d5567210$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> References: <46DC4EA2.8060608@cyberspeedway.net> <000001c7ee5d$d5567210$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> Message-ID: <46DC7972.709@cyberspeedway.net> Rod and his brother Dale have just about finished putting it back together after the wreck at the Runoffs in '98. The only straight panel on the car was the passenger door. The car was completely stripped and rebuilt. The paint scheme is like the Kastner-Brophy #12 in the same colors as near as Dale could get it. It should be back on track for a few Regionals this fall. Greg Mike Munson wrote: > Greg, > I need a set of the drawings as well. > > Is Rod still racing his car? > Is it still around? From vintage.racer at comcast.net Mon Sep 3 20:24:55 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 19:24:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] rubber mounted SUs Message-ID: <001a01c7ee9a$c8d0a640$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: I've just installed the Weber-style rubber "O" ring carb mounts in place of the solid insulation blocks that normally go between the carbs and intake manifold. For those that have completed this installation, how much torque is recommended for the nuts to hold the carbs in place with compressing the rubber to much? Thanks. Gary '62 TR4 From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Sep 3 20:58:52 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 20:58:52 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Hastings 9/6 Message-ID: Evening all... just found out it will be standing room only @ Hastings with 147 entries. Just like the old RMVR days! Real nice to hear... A few Spits & TR's & lil' ole' me in the GT#6. Kevin From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Tue Sep 4 00:29:38 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 23:29:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks Message-ID: <000201c7eebc$f818ddb0$4a7aac43@computer> Any suggestions as to what oil to use in the stock rear shocks in a TR6 for autox and race but no street use. I was going to use motorcycle fork oil but I wasn't sure what weight. I see Kas says to use #40 racing oil but I'm not exactly sure what that is. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Tue Sep 4 08:20:39 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 10:20:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Lime Rock Labor Day Vintage event In-Reply-To: <000201c7eebc$f818ddb0$4a7aac43@computer> References: <000201c7eebc$f818ddb0$4a7aac43@computer> Message-ID: <003101c7eefe$c6bf2cf0$1442a8c0@semperon3400> The annual Lime Rock Vintage event was nice but underwhelming to say the least. 10-15 car race groups on Monday due to attrition... And small entries. Pity The paddocks were half full (try to be optimistic). It looks like Peyote broke, but I don't know the story and didn't get over to say hello... On to Watkins Glen tomorrow for the real big one (crewing for #928 MG-TD)! Clark My photos of LRP are here: http://picasaweb.google.com/Milo066 From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Tue Sep 4 15:30:29 2007 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 17:30:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks References: <000201c7eebc$f818ddb0$4a7aac43@computer> Message-ID: <001301c7ef3a$d12edf00$64092218@alex> Moss motors can sell you a qt. and Apple products a long time rebuilder of leverarms from all eras and makes recomends just 15wght. rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:29 AM Subject: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks > Any suggestions as to what oil to use in the stock rear shocks in a TR6 > for > autox and race but no street use. I was going to use motorcycle fork oil > but I wasn't sure what weight. I see Kas says to use #40 racing oil but > I'm > not exactly sure what that is. > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > 19to1tr6 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Sep 3 23:07:32 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 22:07:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Limited Slip diffs Message-ID: Foter's, I was gone all weekend and haven't been able to get email while away. Anyway, Ken has replied to me that he can take Visa or MC credit cards for the deposit and the full payment. The price of the units will be about $1500 plus any local shipping. Ken has also told me he may have found a way to save on the freight from England. One person has mentioned sending the items Greyhound and I would have to check with Ken about that first though. I can also get a mailing address for those wishing to send Ken a check. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 Kens information is as follows: British Frame and Engine Telephone/Fax: 626-443-0939 Email: bfeken at copper.net ---------------------------------------- From: "Charly Mitchel" Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 12:43 PM To: fot at autox.team.net>, "Charly Mitchel" > >> >> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: fot-bounces+ryoung=navcomtech.com at autox.team.net >>> [mailto:fot-bounces+ryoung=navcomtech.com at autox.team.net] On >>> Behalf Of Charly Mitchel >>> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 12:49 PM >>> To: fot at autox.team.net >>> Subject: [Fot] Limited Slip diffs >>> >>> I've got a cost on the Tran-X units or at least an estimated >>> cost. The >>> unknown cost are the duty on the items paid upon relapse from >>> customs and the >>> shipping to each individual buyer. >>> >>> Ken Gillanders tells me the cost will be about $1500 plus the >>> local shipping >>> costs. >>> This is not a definite cost but a very close estimate. >>> Please let me know if >>> you're interested. >>> Charly Mitchel >>> TR6 #44 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> ryoung at navcomtech.com >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >>> CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files >>> transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to >>> NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are >>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to >>> whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence >>> and not disclosed to third parties without the written >>> consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient >>> or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail >>> to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received >>> this electronic mail in error and that any use, >>> dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this >>> electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received >>> this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the >>> sender by return mail. >>> >> >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it >> may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of >> its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or >> entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and >> not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. >> If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for >> delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that >> you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, >> dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail >> is >> strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, >> please immediately notify the sender by return mail. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> charly at mitchelplumbing.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Catpusher at aol.com Tue Sep 4 22:45:32 2007 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 00:45:32 EDT Subject: [Fot] Subject: rubber mounted SUs Message-ID: I used spiral springs/and or/rubber like washers under nylock nuts retaining the SUs, and found that minor adjustments made major BHP/RPM changes on the dyno. What SUs are you using? Are you using a cold air box mounted to them? Hardy Hello: I've just installed the Weber-style rubber "O" ring carb mounts in place of the solid insulation blocks that normally go between the carbs and intake manifold. For those that have completed this installation, how much torque is recommended for the nuts to hold the carbs in place with compressing the rubber to much? Thanks. Gary '62 TR4 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Catpusher at aol.com Tue Sep 4 23:00:30 2007 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 01:00:30 EDT Subject: [Fot] Subject: Group 44 TR6 Front Brakes Message-ID: They were from the Series 3 E Type Jaguar (V12) and one year of XJ. The calipers bolt directly to the TR4A/6 standard brackets. I used Tilton hubs that PLN had paid Tilton to design. I ran this setup for quite a few seasons. Hardy Does anyone have any technical information regarding the use of Jag calipers/rotors/hubs on the Group 44 TR6? VSCDA would allow me to run these but I can't seem to find any specific information. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From chris at tr4-racing.de Wed Sep 5 00:15:26 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 08:15:26 +0200 Subject: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks Message-ID: <3424F4C248214151973872FF500003FE@Notebook> I use a mixture of EP 320 and EP 680 gearbox oil. You'll need an lever extension to remove air from the shocks. Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Drews To: chris at tr4-racing.de Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:27 PM Subject: Fwd: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks Delivered-To: tony at tonydrews.com X-Virus-Scan: Scanned by clamdmail 0.15 (no viruses); Tue, 04 Sep 2007 01:30:03 -0500 X-Original-To: FOT at autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot at autox.team.net From: "jim hearn" To: Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 23:29:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/mixed by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Subject: [Fot] What oil for the stock rear shocks X-BeenThere: fot at autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 List-Id: Friends of Triumph List-Unsubscribe: < http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot>, < mailto:fot-request at autox.team.net?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: < http://autox.team.net/pipermail/fot> List-Post: < mailto:fot at autox.team.net> List-Help: < mailto:fot-request at autox.team.net?subject=help> List-Subscribe: < http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot>, < mailto:fot-request at autox.team.net?subject=subscribe> Sender: fot-bounces+tony=tonydrews.com at autox.team.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on localhost X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=disabled version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: Any suggestions as to what oil to use in the stock rear shocks in a TR6 for autox and race but no street use. I was going to use motorcycle fork oil but I wasn't sure what weight. I see Kas says to use #40 racing oil but I'm not exactly sure what that is. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tony at tonydrews.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From RYoung at navcomtech.com Wed Sep 5 14:56:17 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 13:56:17 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR3 bore sizes? In-Reply-To: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A5C1D37@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> References: <520161.3333.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A5C1D37@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Message-ID: > Forgetting the liners for a moment what about the stuck Grose > jets in TR6's? I have seen that many times. I've been seeing a lot more stuck float valves of every sort (both Grose and non-Grose, SU, ZS, non-CD, etc.) the last few years than I ever saw before. Even my lawnmower caught the disease ! Doesn't prove anything I know, but I believe it's a change in gasoline formulation. Old gasoline would form a soft brown deposit much like old varnish; while the new stuff seems to form a much harder, whitish deposit. FWIW, I got mad at the stuck float valve on the Stag a couple days ago, and rather than pulling the carb, blew some compressed air through the fuel line. Amazingly enough, it actually worked (after it blew apart the joint that wasn't clamped properly ) Randall From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Wed Sep 5 18:36:50 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 17:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] 1147 Crank Seal Message-ID: <291682.96881.qm@web53509.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hey FOT, I have located and purchased an 1147 crank for my race car, there is a difference from the crank I had before in that on the flywheel end of the crank there is a "scroll" (looks like threads so as it rotates it returns oil back to the block) in the fat end. It appears that this design would "sling" the oil back into the block, but I am not sure of the purpose. My question is, does this type of crank design use the same rear seal as the crank without the "scroll"??? Or do I need a different type of seal?? Thanks Jay --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From Herald948 at aol.com Wed Sep 5 19:30:41 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 21:30:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] 1147 Crank Seal Message-ID: In a message dated 9/5/2007 8:37:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: I have located and purchased an 1147 crank for my race car, there is a difference from the crank I had before in that on the flywheel end of the crank there is a "scroll" (looks like threads so as it rotates it returns oil back to the block) in the fat end. It appears that this design would "sling" the oil back into the block, but I am not sure of the purpose. My question is, does this type of crank design use the same rear seal as the crank without the "scroll"??? Or do I need a different type of seal?? Jay, others will, I'm sure, be able to give you much more detail, but it sounds like the crank you got is the earlier type and does indeed have the "scroll" to fling the oil back into the engine. If I remember correctly, it has -- instead of an oil seal and its housing -- what the spare parts catalogue calls the "oil retaining cover -- rear." I also recall that this crank was used until fairly late in the Mk2 Spitfires, then the later crank was used through the early 1296 "small journal" blocks. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Gt6steve at aol.com Wed Sep 5 19:37:55 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 21:37:55 EDT Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? Message-ID: Amici. Are any of the western FOT going to Buttonwillow? I'm still totally ambivalent but find myself polishing the car. Give me some incentive to head for the only track I hate...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From klynch_6 at msn.com Wed Sep 5 20:31:54 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 20:31:54 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? References: Message-ID: How about a track you'd love? Hastings! ok, I tried... http://www.racemph.com/ Kev ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 7:37 PM Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? Amici. Are any of the western FOT going to Buttonwillow? I'm still totally ambivalent but find myself polishing the car. Give me some incentive to head for the only track I hate...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From norlinengineering at comcast.net Wed Sep 5 20:53:54 2007 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 19:53:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 1147 Crank Seal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c7f031$2a8c4cd0$020ba8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP> Jay What Andy has told you is accurate from what I know. The scroll seal on the early cranks worked just like the scroll seal on the front of the early stock gearboxes. What is normally done for racing is to have a sleeve made from stainless steel to eliminate the scroll and bring the diameter out to match the oil seal dimension of the later cranks. If you don't want to do this for some reason, I've probably got one or more of the old style "oil retaining covers" buried in my stash of stuff. Jim Norlin -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 6:31 PM To: jaxonracing at yahoo.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] 1147 Crank Seal In a message dated 9/5/2007 8:37:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: I have located and purchased an 1147 crank for my race car, there is a difference from the crank I had before in that on the flywheel end of the crank there is a "scroll" (looks like threads so as it rotates it returns oil back to the block) in the fat end. It appears that this design would "sling" the oil back into the block, but I am not sure of the purpose. My question is, does this type of crank design use the same rear seal as the crank without the "scroll"??? Or do I need a different type of seal?? Jay, others will, I'm sure, be able to give you much more detail, but it sounds like the crank you got is the earlier type and does indeed have the "scroll" to fling the oil back into the engine. If I remember correctly, it has -- instead of an oil seal and its housing -- what the spare parts catalogue calls the "oil retaining cover -- rear." I also recall that this crank was used until fairly late in the Mk2 Spitfires, then the later crank was used through the early 1296 "small journal" blocks. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From brad.kahler at 141.com Wed Sep 5 21:21:43 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:21:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] 1147 Crank Seal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46DF7247.2080705@141.com> Herald948 at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/5/2007 8:37:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > I have located and purchased an 1147 crank for my race car, there is a > difference from the crank I had before in that on the flywheel end of the crank > there is a "scroll" (looks like threads so as it rotates it returns oil back > to the block) in the fat end. It appears that this design would "sling" the > oil back into the block, but I am not sure of the purpose. > > My question is, does this type of crank design use the same rear seal as the > crank without the "scroll"??? Or do I need a different type of seal?? > > > Jay, others will, I'm sure, be able to give you much more detail, but it > sounds like the crank you got is the earlier type and does indeed have the > "scroll" to fling the oil back into the engine. If I remember correctly, it has -- > instead of an oil seal and its housing -- what the spare parts catalogue > calls the "oil retaining cover -- rear." I also recall that this crank was used > until fairly late in the Mk2 Spitfires, then the later crank was used through > the early 1296 "small journal" blocks. > > One thing to add to Andy's post is the 1147 crank will work in a 1296 engine just fine. All you hae to do is install a Speedi-Sleeve part number 99287 from either National or CR. We're currently running an 1147 crank with a Speedi-Sleeve installed in Susan's race car. Works just fine! Brad From chasgee at aol.com Wed Sep 5 22:47:45 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 00:47:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9BE58337013FA-F14-6DF5@MBLK-M01.sysops.aol.com> I'm going....I'll bring beer, is that enough incentive? Chuck Blacksmith Racing -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 6:37 pm Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? Amici. Are any of the western FOT going to Buttonwillow? I'm still totally ambivalent but find myself polishing the car. Give me some incentive to head for the only track I hate...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From mlbruner53 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 5 22:53:03 2007 From: mlbruner53 at yahoo.com (Michael Bruner) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 21:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <383591.1615.qm@web54112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I'm going I'll bring the Jack, is that enough incentive? Mike Bruner Blacksmith Racing #612 Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: Amici. Are any of the western FOT going to Buttonwillow? I'm still totally ambivalent but find myself polishing the car. Give me some incentive to head for the only track I hate...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour mlbruner53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Mike Bruner TR4A - #612 Blacksmith Racing --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. From jfrymark at aol.com Thu Sep 6 13:09:23 2007 From: jfrymark at aol.com (John Frymark) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:09:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow Message-ID: <8001B7A9-7978-4323-A057-D9C42C3EFA7B@aol.com> Well I guess you won't need the MARGARATOR, so count me out! John Frymark From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 17:00:07 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 16:00:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow References: <8001B7A9-7978-4323-A057-D9C42C3EFA7B@aol.com> Message-ID: <000701c7f0d9$ac0337d0$0301000a@Chowdown> Dudes, my wife is pregnant. I ain't goin racin' till hopefully Willow in Nov. ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frymark" To: "Steve Smith" ; "Mike Bruner" ; "Chuck Gee" Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:09 PM Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow > Well I guess you won't need the MARGARATOR, so count me out! > > John Frymark > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jfrymark at aol.com Thu Sep 6 18:31:53 2007 From: jfrymark at aol.com (John Frymark) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 17:31:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow In-Reply-To: <000701c7f0d9$ac0337d0$0301000a@Chowdown> References: <8001B7A9-7978-4323-A057-D9C42C3EFA7B@aol.com> <000701c7f0d9$ac0337d0$0301000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <3C72F9F7-633C-4210-AB70-866110E3A1BF@aol.com> Yeah...right! John On Sep 6, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Steve Belfer wrote: > Dudes, my wife is pregnant. I ain't goin racin' till hopefully > Willow in Nov. > > ~Steve > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frymark" > To: "Steve Smith" ; "Mike Bruner" > ; "Chuck Gee" > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:09 PM > Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow > > >> Well I guess you won't need the MARGARATOR, so count me out! >> >> John Frymark >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> colordog.1 at earthlink.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Sep 6 20:30:20 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 21:30:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Motor Oil Message-ID: FoT, After all the discussions about motor oil, what is the current general consensus on the usable brands? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Sep 6 21:10:58 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 22:10:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Rear Diff Message-ID: FoT, Anyone have a lead on a 4:11 or 4:33 rear diff for a TR6? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From chris at tr4-racing.de Fri Sep 7 01:48:24 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 09:48:24 +0200 Subject: [Fot] AUDI R8 UNPLUGGED Message-ID: <002001c7f123$78bf49a0$6402a8c0@HOME> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFFb39n1XrM From Gt6steve at aol.com Fri Sep 7 06:16:16 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 08:16:16 EDT Subject: [Fot] Motor Oil Message-ID: In a message dated 9/6/2007 7:30:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: FoT, After all the discussions about motor oil, what is the current general consensus on the usable brands? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 I like them... ;-0 Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Fri Sep 7 08:46:09 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 07:46:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c7f15d$d42474c0$4a7aac43@computer> Steve, I'm just curious. I never have even seen Buttonwillow but why is it that you hate it? Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gt6steve at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 6:38 PM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Buttonwillow? Amici. Are any of the western FOT going to Buttonwillow? I'm still totally ambivalent but find myself polishing the car. Give me some incentive to head for the only track I hate...Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Fri Sep 7 15:15:34 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 21:15:34 GMT Subject: [Fot] Motor Oil Message-ID: <20070907.171534.17863.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com> Not sure if there is a consensus. I have been using Joe Gibbs oil, which is made for flat tappet engines. Joe(B) -- Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/6/2007 7:30:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: FoT, After all the discussions about motor oil, what is the current general consensus on the usable brands? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 I like them... ;-0 Steve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Be your own boss today! Go to Technical School. Click here. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijngzT1tY9UULC042Y76sQN5nhW Ocep3fd5sWfbnJfgQXpv99/ From vintage.racer at comcast.net Fri Sep 7 21:56:39 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 20:56:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo Message-ID: <000801c7f1cc$4289fbb0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: I need some advice on the probable solution to a brake servo problem that just popped up. This is for a stock 1969 TR-6. Symptons: 1. When pressing the brake pedal, I hear a soft "whooshing" sound which occurs whenever I pump the pedal. 2. The brake pedal requires more pressure. 3. The engine speed drops rapidly as long as there is pressure on the brake pedal. All this leads me to believe there is a leak in the brake servo unit. Looking in the service manual reveals that only a filter at the brake pedal end of the servo can be replaced. However, the Moss catalog shows the non-return valve and a seal & plate assembly are availalbe but no filter. The Victoria British catalog shows a repair kit but no description so not sure what is included. Any thoughts on which or both of these parts could fix the problem? If I remove the rubber hose from the brake servo unit (which leads to the intake manifold) and temporarily block it off, will that alleviate the problem? Thanks. Gary 62 TR-4 69 TR-6 From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sat Sep 8 00:48:52 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 02:48:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Motor Oil Message-ID: As advised earlier, the most useful information is at: www.lnengineering.com/oil.html However, FWIW, I am presently using Valvoline Synpower 20W/50, of API SL rating, (NOT the SM found on most auto-store shelves), plus the STP 4-cylinder oil supplement in the RED container, which contains lots of ZDDP. When I next change the oil, I will be changing to Amsoil Series 2000 Racing (20w50), and using a fully Synthetic Mobil 1 Oil Filter. Hope that helps Best Regards Lion ps. it was really great to see my fellow FoTers up at PIR last weekend, especially Charly, stoic in the face of adversity. L http://community.websho ts.com/user/vitesse1963 From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sat Sep 8 18:22:08 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 10:22:08 +1000 Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo In-Reply-To: <000801c7f1cc$4289fbb0$4acd0518@GHOffice> References: <000801c7f1cc$4289fbb0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: Gary, Sounds like the diaphragm is split inside the servo. Kind Regards Peter Vucinic TR-4 _____________________________________________ Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: Saturday, 8 September 2007 1:57 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo Hello: I need some advice on the probable solution to a brake servo problem that just popped up. This is for a stock 1969 TR-6. Symptons: 1. When pressing the brake pedal, I hear a soft "whooshing" sound which occurs whenever I pump the pedal. 2. The brake pedal requires more pressure. 3. The engine speed drops rapidly as long as there is pressure on the brake pedal. All this leads me to believe there is a leak in the brake servo unit. Looking in the service manual reveals that only a filter at the brake pedal end of the servo can be replaced. However, the Moss catalog shows the non-return valve and a seal & plate assembly are availalbe but no filter. The Victoria British catalog shows a repair kit but no description so not sure what is included. Any thoughts on which or both of these parts could fix the problem? If I remove the rubber hose from the brake servo unit (which leads to the intake manifold) and temporarily block it off, will that alleviate the problem? Thanks. Gary 62 TR-4 69 TR-6 pvucinic at netspace.net.au Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vintage.racer at comcast.net Sun Sep 9 10:29:28 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 09:29:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo Message-ID: <000a01c7f2fe$98068e90$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: Thanks to all who replyed with solutions to my brake servo problem. I've temporarily blocked the vacuum hose and will look for a replacement servo. Gary From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sun Sep 9 17:35:07 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 16:35:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau Message-ID: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Here's a link to a file I just posted to my site with a slideshow of a Mysterious Tonneau Cover. It's mysterious because I don't know what car it's for. http://www.guppypuppy.com/Mysterytonneau.html I suspect it's for a TR4 but there's no way to be sure without an actual TR4 to try it on. Can any of you guys identify it? Oh yeah, if anyone wants it, I'll sell it to a fellow F.O.T. for el-cheapo. It's in perfect condition but has been in a box for many years. (at least 10) It says "AERO" on the zipper. ~Steve From BillB at bnj.com Sun Sep 9 17:50:54 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 16:50:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. Stupid beyond belief--he whacked me in the back left corner trying to re-pass me in an turn nine, and then tried to blame the wreck on me. I wound up pivoting on his bumper, being shoved sideways down the track with a big ass 57' Corvette rubbing my elbow and finally got shoved against the tire wall, which bent the suspension mounts on the right front corner. He could of killed me, he did indeed wreck the heck out of Peyote, and didn't have the integrity to even say "sorry your car got wrecked" or "glad you didn't get hurt". Weasel. I've been on the guilty side of an incident like this once, and though it was a lot less clearcut than this one (I hit a guy in the middle of his car when I couldn't brake in time as he cut across a chicane),I stepped up and apologized. Even paid for the guy's damage though I think it's wrong to do that--we all assume the risk of damage or injury when we choose to race. I'll fix my own car. The stewards didn't "decide" on their action, which I take to mean they wanted everyone cleared out before they decide to do nothing. They were already making noises about "mitigating aspects" when I talked to them, despite clear evidence like a big punt mark in the back of my car, a video from Karon's Devin, and lots of people that saw the incident. I know the corner worker on the scene must have been looking the wrong way--he asked me what happened. If I did such a bonehead thing I'd expect to get suspended, but the guy has run with SVRA for years and I'm just a guy from Oregon that they may never see again. They're the ones that will have to race with the weenie, I certainly wouldn't set a wheel on a track with him again. Anyway, the racing part of the tour is over. I'm making my way back across the country to lick my wounds in Portland. we'll do a little sightseeing on the way back and stop in Geneseo to pick up my motor from Uncle Jack. I will, of course, fix Peyote. From rocky at spitfire4.com Sun Sep 9 18:30:13 2007 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 19:30:13 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <003501c7f341$c21ca730$6401a8c0@S1099895562> That's two tonneaus. The silver one is for a RHD car, the black one is for a LHD car. It looks generic enough you could probably make it fit most cars that don't have headrests on the seats. Hope it's not a Robbins product. Those things are junk. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:35 PM Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau > Here's a link to a file I just posted to my site with a slideshow of a > Mysterious Tonneau Cover. > It's mysterious because I don't know what car it's for. > > http://www.guppypuppy.com/Mysterytonneau.html > > I suspect it's for a TR4 but there's no way to be sure without an actual > TR4 > to try it on. > > Can any of you guys identify it? > > Oh yeah, if anyone wants it, I'll sell it to a fellow F.O.T. for > el-cheapo. > It's in perfect condition but has been in a box for many years. (at least > 10) > It says "AERO" on the zipper. > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rocky at spitfire4.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sun Sep 9 19:34:33 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 18:34:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <001101c7f34a$bdc2faf0$0501000a@Chowdown> SOLD ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 4:35 PM Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau > Here's a link to a file I just posted to my site with a slideshow of a > Mysterious Tonneau Cover. > It's mysterious because I don't know what car it's for. > > http://www.guppypuppy.com/Mysterytonneau.html > > I suspect it's for a TR4 but there's no way to be sure without an actual > TR4 > to try it on. > > Can any of you guys identify it? > > Oh yeah, if anyone wants it, I'll sell it to a fellow F.O.T. for > el-cheapo. > It's in perfect condition but has been in a box for many years. (at least > 10) > It says "AERO" on the zipper. > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Sun Sep 9 20:11:25 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 22:11:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bill Sorry to hear your racing trek is over, and glad you were not hurt. You looked so vulnerable in Peyote when I saw you at Mosport...pretty close to an open wheel racer. Good luck on the rebuild and don't swipe too many road signs (spare parts??) as you make you way back to Portland. Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: September 9, 2007 7:51 PM To: Steve Belfer; Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sun Sep 9 21:48:08 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 23:48:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] brake servos Message-ID: ISTR that about the only person who rebuilds vacuum brake servos in the UK, is Peter Norton of Norton Classic Servos? I don't have his contact details handy, but he should be easy enough to find. He rebuilds both Lockeed and Girling Units and also sends out kits to those who wish to do it themselves. Nice fellow Best Regards Lion http://community.websho ts.com/user/vitesse1963 From mark at bradakis.com Sun Sep 9 22:07:28 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 22:07:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over In-Reply-To: References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <46E4C300.3060500@bradakis.com> Drat. If by some chance your return home involves cruising along I-80 through Utah, stop by and I'll buy you a cold one. mjb. From CoffeyJack at bfusa.com Mon Sep 10 07:03:10 2007 From: CoffeyJack at bfusa.com (Coffey, Jack) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:03:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo In-Reply-To: <000a01c7f2fe$98068e90$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: <5C33EB5352EE814AB72F655EA92399A20EF7FAF7@exc2-na-chq.bfusa.com> My servo had same symptoms.... I had it rebuilt by POWER BRAKE 503-238-8882 4533 S.E.DIVISION ST. PORTLAND OR. 97206 Only cost about $100 bucks and they did a great job Jack - TR250 coffeyjack at bfusa.com -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 11:29 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR-6 Brake Servo Hello: Thanks to all who replyed with solutions to my brake servo problem. I've temporarily blocked the vacuum hose and will look for a replacement servo. Gary coffeyjack at bfusa.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 08:53:14 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:53:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over In-Reply-To: References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0709100753q23461481mdfed04bc4aa0eaeb@mail.gmail.com> Sorry Bill --would say that is racing, but not that kind of hit. Thought this was vintage?? SOVREN would not be so kind. You show your "gentlemanness" by not naming the perpetrator. On 9/9/07, Bill Babcock wrote: > > I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. Stupid beyond > belief--he whacked me in the back left corner trying to re-pass me in an > turn > nine, and then tried to blame the wreck on me. I wound up pivoting on his > bumper, being shoved sideways down the track with a big ass 57' Corvette > rubbing my elbow and finally got shoved against the tire wall, which bent > the > suspension mounts on the right front corner. He could of killed me, he did > indeed wreck the heck out of Peyote, and didn't have the integrity to even > say > "sorry your car got wrecked" or "glad you didn't get hurt". > > Weasel. > > I've been on the guilty side of an incident like this once, and though it > was > a lot less clearcut than this one (I hit a guy in the middle of his car > when I > couldn't brake in time as he cut across a chicane),I stepped up and > apologized. Even paid for the guy's damage though I think it's wrong to do > that--we all assume the risk of damage or injury when we choose to race. > I'll > fix my own car. > > The stewards didn't "decide" on their action, which I take to mean they > wanted > everyone cleared out before they decide to do nothing. They were already > making noises about "mitigating aspects" when I talked to them, despite > clear > evidence like a big punt mark in the back of my car, a video from Karon's > Devin, and lots of people that saw the incident. I know the corner worker > on > the scene must have been looking the wrong way--he asked me what happened. > > If I did such a bonehead thing I'd expect to get suspended, but the guy > has > run with SVRA for years and I'm just a guy from Oregon that they may never > see > again. They're the ones that will have to race with the weenie, I > certainly > wouldn't set a wheel on a track with him again. > > Anyway, the racing part of the tour is over. I'm making my way back across > the > country to lick my wounds in Portland. we'll do a little sightseeing on > the > way back and stop in Geneseo to pick up my motor from Uncle Jack. > > I will, of course, fix Peyote. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From tarch at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 10 10:42:56 2007 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:42:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20070910154331.443B318763D@autox.team.net> Bill, What a bummer! But it's not only the hardware that is at risk in events like this. In 26 years of vintage racing I have only made contact with another car once, and that was at the last race at Road Atlanta. After 4 laps of dicing in the Enduro, I tried to squeeze in on the inside of an MGB at turn One. My tires let go a little bit and I slid up against the right side of who was to become my newest best race-track friend, Lee Walker. The bump was my error in judgment and was clearly 100% my fault. I spun out but and got back on the track. Lee wobbled a mite but just kept on trucking. We both finished but after the race, when I went to his pit to apologize, Lee acknowledged that he knew what I was up to, lost me in his mirrors, and therefore he felt some responsibility. To assuage his (unwarranted) guilt (perhaps) he invited me to have a picnic lunch with his extended family from Mississippi. Lemonade, potato salad and all that stuff. He then invited me to go to church with them the next morning. It turns out that he is a writer and illustrator for children's text books. That he races an MGB notwithstanding, Lee is an intellectual and artistic guy. But more than that he is one of those few men whose high personal qualities are right there on the surface. I scratched that surface; I know. Bill, You may have scratched the surface of a different sort of character. But whatever might ooze out of that scratch washes right off if you catch it quickly enough. And it's also a shame about that trick little car of yours. I'll bet it comes back better than ever, too. Richard -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+tarch=bellsouth.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+tarch=bellsouth.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:51 PM To: Steve Belfer; Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. Stupid beyond belief--he whacked me in the back left corner trying to re-pass me in an turn nine, and then tried to blame the wreck on me. I wound up pivoting on his bumper, being shoved sideways down the track with a big ass 57' Corvette rubbing my elbow and finally got shoved against the tire wall, which bent the suspension mounts on the right front corner. He could of killed me, he did indeed wreck the heck out of Peyote, and didn't have the integrity to even say "sorry your car got wrecked" or "glad you didn't get hurt". Weasel. I've been on the guilty side of an incident like this once, and though it was a lot less clearcut than this one (I hit a guy in the middle of his car when I couldn't brake in time as he cut across a chicane),I stepped up and apologized. Even paid for the guy's damage though I think it's wrong to do that--we all assume the risk of damage or injury when we choose to race. I'll fix my own car. The stewards didn't "decide" on their action, which I take to mean they wanted everyone cleared out before they decide to do nothing. They were already making noises about "mitigating aspects" when I talked to them, despite clear evidence like a big punt mark in the back of my car, a video from Karon's Devin, and lots of people that saw the incident. I know the corner worker on the scene must have been looking the wrong way--he asked me what happened. If I did such a bonehead thing I'd expect to get suspended, but the guy has run with SVRA for years and I'm just a guy from Oregon that they may never see again. They're the ones that will have to race with the weenie, I certainly wouldn't set a wheel on a track with him again. Anyway, the racing part of the tour is over. I'm making my way back across the country to lick my wounds in Portland. we'll do a little sightseeing on the way back and stop in Geneseo to pick up my motor from Uncle Jack. I will, of course, fix Peyote. tarch at bellsouth.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 09:56:29 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:56:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> <001101c7f34a$bdc2faf0$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <000b01c7f3c3$26f23bd0$0501000a@Chowdown> When I imported the picture, somehow the image got flipped upside-down. It's Left-Hand-Drive. Early TR4. Thanks guys and, Bill DeWar, I hope you enjoy it. ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Steve Belfer" ; "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau > SOLD > > > > ~Steve > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Belfer" > To: "Friends of Triumph" > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 4:35 PM > Subject: [Fot] Mystery Tonneau > > >> Here's a link to a file I just posted to my site with a slideshow of a >> Mysterious Tonneau Cover. >> It's mysterious because I don't know what car it's for. >> >> http://www.guppypuppy.com/Mysterytonneau.html >> >> I suspect it's for a TR4 but there's no way to be sure without an actual >> TR4 >> to try it on. >> >> Can any of you guys identify it? >> >> Oh yeah, if anyone wants it, I'll sell it to a fellow F.O.T. for >> el-cheapo. >> It's in perfect condition but has been in a box for many years. (at least >> 10) >> It says "AERO" on the zipper. >> >> ~Steve >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> colordog.1 at earthlink.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Sep 10 10:03:43 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Khartu Lives! Message-ID: Hi, Khartu-V2 made it's debut (finally!) on 9-SEP at a Jaguars of New England "slalom"... it did pretty good too! The weather started off "iffy" with heavy showers, but the showers dipersed and the "track" started drying and the times started dropping. I wound up getting FTD, although about .5 of a second off my normal times on the Jag "standard" national course. At any rate, it was good to get back in the saddle of "my old friend" again. Now all I have to to do is fugoure out why the motor is smoking out the tailpipe - a leakdown test is in order. I hope all the NET folks had fun eating lobstah "down east" on SAT. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 10:20:31 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:20:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over References: <001001c7f33a$0ed65a10$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <002501c7f3c6$82a8e750$0501000a@Chowdown> All Alluminum Tour is OverYour safety is the real important thing here and I'm glad you're okay. If it happened to me, I don't know how I would react. It sounds like the car is fixable, thank goodness. The thing is, it's pretty dangerous to have vehicles of such different sizes racing together. One slip-up and it's off into the weeds, the big car wins. I'm still tentative in my dad's old restored TR3, I don't want to get too close to anybody for fear of making contact. That Vette was not nearly as agile as your sports-racer as you darted around him in the heat of battle. He probably made a mistake and didn't whack you intentionally. If he did, he's in the wrong sport. A handshake and apology would have been the sportsman like thing to do. Either the Vette-guy was waiting for you to come over to him, or was afraid to confront you, or both. ~S ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Steve Belfer ; Friends of Triumph Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 4:50 PM Subject: All Alluminum Tour is Over I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. Stupid beyond belief--he whacked me in the back left corner trying to re-pass me in an turn nine, and then tried to blame the wreck on me. I wound up pivoting on his bumper, being shoved sideways down the track with a big ass 57' Corvette rubbing my elbow and finally got shoved against the tire wall, which bent the suspension mounts on the right front corner. He could of killed me, he did indeed wreck the heck out of Peyote, and didn't have the integrity to even say "sorry your car got wrecked" or "glad you didn't get hurt". Weasel. I've been on the guilty side of an incident like this once, and though it was a lot less clearcut than this one (I hit a guy in the middle of his car when I couldn't brake in time as he cut across a chicane),I stepped up and apologized. Even paid for the guy's damage though I think it's wrong to do that--we all assume the risk of damage or injury when we choose to race. I'll fix my own car. The stewards didn't "decide" on their action, which I take to mean they wanted everyone cleared out before they decide to do nothing. They were already making noises about "mitigating aspects" when I talked to them, despite clear evidence like a big punt mark in the back of my car, a video from Karon's Devin, and lots of people that saw the incident. I know the corner worker on the scene must have been looking the wrong way--he asked me what happened. If I did such a bonehead thing I'd expect to get suspended, but the guy has run with SVRA for years and I'm just a guy from Oregon that they may never see again. They're the ones that will have to race with the weenie, I certainly wouldn't set a wheel on a track with him again. Anyway, the racing part of the tour is over. I'm making my way back across the country to lick my wounds in Portland. we'll do a little sightseeing on the way back and stop in Geneseo to pick up my motor from Uncle Jack. I will, of course, fix Peyote. From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 10:21:20 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:21:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Khartu Lives! References: Message-ID: <002d01c7f3c6$9faba950$0501000a@Chowdown> What's a Khartu? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Lang" To: ; <6pack at autox.team.net> Cc: Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:03 AM Subject: [Fot] Khartu Lives! > Hi, > > Khartu-V2 made it's debut (finally!) on 9-SEP at a Jaguars of New England > "slalom"... it did pretty good too! The weather started off "iffy" with > heavy showers, but the showers dipersed and the "track" started drying and > the times started dropping. I wound up getting FTD, although about .5 of a > second off my normal times on the Jag "standard" national course. > > At any rate, it was good to get back in the saddle of "my old friend" > again. Now all I have to to do is fugoure out why the motor is smoking out > the tailpipe - a leakdown test is in order. > > I hope all the NET folks had fun eating lobstah "down east" on SAT. > > regards, > rml > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent > Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | > Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From henry at henryfrye.com Mon Sep 10 21:02:17 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:02:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Race Report - 1 of 2 Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FAA6@server.Triumph.local> Mother Nature was not smiling on us this past weekend, the weather was hot and humid, then the rains came. We got dry track sessions on Thursday (2), Friday (1), and one Saturday morning. The qualifying race Saturday afternoon was run in the wet, as was the feature Sunday morning. Dick Stockton was running real strong, had a great time running in the top 5 all weekend, but is not a fan of running in the rain. In the qualifying race he was gridded way up front, but was not too keen on being part of the turn one shenanigans that were bound to ensue. He threw up his arm as the green flag dropped and fell in around 15th, and drove around the track for the entire race tucked in behind one of the slower 356's. As the time for the feature race came upon us, the weather looked dismal with track conditions even wetter than the qualifying race so Dick and his gang took the advantage of the lull in the raindrops to load up his car. Smart move. Randy Williams ran strong in his TR3 once he got that overdrive working right, and did double duty running his E-Type in Group 6 as well as his TR in Group 3. Randy was flirting with the top 10 in the speed chart all weekend, and in the feature pulled off a podium finish with a third overall. Outstanding drive, Randy. Steven Groh made the show, and did us and all the Spit pilots out there proud. His Weberized Spit is beautiful and fast, SVRA made it a Group 3 car. Steve showed off his rain driving skills as well, and drove to a 5th overall in the feature! Steve, that is motoring in a Spit, my friend. Kudos. Bill Babcock had Peyote was looking fantastic as usual, embarrassing many cars he had no business running in front of. Unfortunately, some Corvette driver put him out of business for the rest of the All Aluminum Tour, but Bill is fine and Peyote isn't bent up all that bad. As Bill said, it was time for a new body anyway. If he grabs a couple street signs from every state along his journey home, he will be all set! Unfortunately, Bill Dentinger in the Thunderbolt succumbed to clutch woes in the middle of the first session. But he was smiling every time I moseyed by, and I am pretty sure that was not just because he was glad to see me... Bud Babcock's beautiful TR3 ran well all weekend, and Bud was having a good time as well. Bob Wismer was running his S2000 this weekend, so needless to say he got in, drove, finished, and didn't worry about the car all weekend. continued on the next post... From henry at henryfrye.com Mon Sep 10 21:04:04 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:04:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen race report - 2 of 2 Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FAA7@server.Triumph.local> Continued from first post... I chose to sit on the sidelines for the qualifying race, and was surprised to see so many cars take the track. I guess I was a little gun-shy remembering the last time I ran in conditions like this. But by the time the feature race came around, I was more determined to go have some fun, and drove the TR4 to the grid. Since I didn't run the qualifying race I was not on the grid sheet. I was asked what my lap time was. I told him I ran a 28.3 but I didn't run the qualifying race. He looks at his sheet and says I should be gridded 6th. I told him his sheet had the wet times from the qualifying race. I ask to see the sheet and tell where I should go. They still grid me higher than I deserve, and Randy and all the rest of the guys up there start giving me the business about how much beer I promised the guy. I don't think any of them bought my excuse that with the wet track they didn't want faster cars starting at the back. So we took the track and it was really slick, I let a by few of the guys I had no business being in front of. By the end of the race we almost had a dry line most of the way around the track. I had a great race with John Targett in his RHD red MGB hardtop. We traded positions a couple times, had some fun with an insanely fast Turner, and when the checker dropped I was in front of both John and the Turner, so life is good. I ended up with a 9th overall and second in class. I am pretty sure Group 3 had the only 'almost' decent track conditions all Sunday, as the next group left the grid the unrelenting rain came back, and it never really gave up. Friday afternoon the race cars go downtown to show off the cars and do a couple parade laps around the original race circuit. Bob Williams and his crew did the best job I ever participated in getting us downtown and parked with no overheating woes, and off and around the original street course with minimal fuss and jockeying. Helen told me before the event she had done the circuit enough times, and it was time to offer my passenger seat to someone else. As I sat having dinner Thursday night with my Western PA Triumph club friends, I brought up the subject. Bruce Stutzman immediately said I needed to offer the seat to Diane, Bill Babcock's wife. Seems that even with all of Bill's fantastic negotiating skills, he was unable to persuade SVRA that having her sit on the fuel cell in Peyote's passenger compartment was a good idea. So Diane and I blasted around the course waiving at all the fans. Speaking of the fans, I have never seen so many folks both downtown and along the road course. Watkins Glen was packed! Another fun weekend at Watkins Glen. Thanks to Jack W and the rest of the SVRA gang. BTW, the results are already up on mylaps.com From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Sep 11 00:00:12 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:00:12 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Just poking some fun! Message-ID: <571208BC-1672-4F31-9CF9-6023013B4E88@earthlink.net> Worked the late shift on my new Formula Vee tonight. Then the 45 mile drive from shop to home. Passed some old brit car broken down on the shoulder. Took a hundred yards to process that - A. It's a Triumph B. I've got tools C. I've got a shop full of parts less than 10 miles away D. I can probably help. As I'm backing-up the shoulder, I'm thinking A. Ignition problem? B. Charging problem? C. Wheel bearing? D. Wait a minute, I think I know this car! Sure enough, up walks our own Henry Morrison. As a relative newcomer to New Mexico [11yrs] and FoT [3mos.], I never knew that 10pm on a monday night is the proper time to test a TR3 sending unit. I could swear Henry was stealing one of my old hitch-hiking lines with "but it showed 1/4 tank!", but realized that he was serious... he believed 40+ year old Lucas. Now we both know - Yes, 10pm on a monday night IS the time to test such things. But NO, a 40+ year old gas gauge is not to be trusted. Hope you understand Henry, that I'm laughing with you and not at you, because we've all been there. Just glad I could help. On the other hand, maybe that's what one gets for driving a TR to a Healey club meeting. Greg From dos_gusanos at msn.com Tue Sep 11 08:08:22 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 08:08:22 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Just poking some fun! In-Reply-To: <571208BC-1672-4F31-9CF9-6023013B4E88@earthlink.net> References: <571208BC-1672-4F31-9CF9-6023013B4E88@earthlink.net> Message-ID: I'd only been in the drink about three minutes when Greg must have spotted my FOT sticker on the windshield and quickly whisked me away to the nearest petrol dump where I was able to add another red can to my collection. I'm sure Greg saved me from being de-nuded of my MG GOF driving cap and other priceless motoring accessories. Thanks again for the rescue......................Cheers Henry > To: fot at autox.team.net> From: lunkercars at earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:00:12 -0600> Subject: [Fot] Just poking some fun!> > Worked the late shift on my new Formula Vee tonight. Then the 45 mile > drive from shop to home. Passed some old brit car broken down on the > shoulder. Took a hundred yards to process that - A. It's a Triumph > B. I've got tools C. I've got a shop full of parts less than 10 > miles away D. I can probably help. As I'm backing-up the shoulder, > I'm thinking A. Ignition problem? B. Charging problem? C. Wheel > bearing? D. Wait a minute, I think I know this car! Sure enough, up > walks our own Henry Morrison. As a relative newcomer to New Mexico > [11yrs] and FoT [3mos.], I never knew that 10pm on a monday night is > the proper time to test a TR3 sending unit. I could swear Henry was > stealing one of my old hitch-hiking lines with "but it showed 1/4 > tank!", but realized that he was serious... he believed 40+ year old > Lucas. Now we both know - Yes, 10pm on a monday night IS the time to > test such things. But NO, a 40+ year old gas gauge is not to be trusted.> Hope you understand Henry, that I'm laughing with you and not at you, > because we've all been there. Just glad I could help. On the other > hand, maybe that's what one gets for driving a TR to a Healey club > meeting.> Greg > _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From sgroh1 at comcast.net Tue Sep 11 10:39:51 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (sgroh1 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:39:51 +0000 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over Message-ID: <091120071639.23422.46E6C4D70008537400005B7E2200748184CE08019D099C@comcast.net> I had the great pleasure to paddock next to Bill this last weekend with my Spit and all I can say is that if the offensive 'Vette driver had even 1/10th the amount of class Bill has, he'd have been over to Bill's paddock immediately with an apology. Bill is a true sportsman and gentleman, and it is a credit to our sport to have him in the field. I took home a ton of positive track experience from this weekend, but frankly I learned the most from Bill's attitude, humor and willingness to help anyone at any moment . Had it not been for Bill, I would have not turned a single lap all weekend. First he re-threaded a replacement oil fitting on an aeroquip line for me allowing me to make the field at all. Then he cheerfully proceeded to answer every one of my anxious questions over the 4 day event on tire temps, tire pressures, head gasket leaks and camber settings, lent me his tire temp guage, and, if that wasn't enough, he and his engineer Dave happily reinstalled the 20' awning on my brand new trailer that the wind ripped off while we at the Glen re-enactment (another event I would have missed, by the way, had it not been for Bill.) And if if that wasn't enough, he invites my girlfriend and I over for for a great chicken barbeque dinner Friday night! Thanks Bill, you are truly the class of the field whether on track or off. I'b be honored to paddock next to you anytime. The 'Vette driver could certainly learn a ton from you. Steve Groh SVRA 393 '63 Spitfire -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Bill Babcock" > I got squashed by a Corvette at Watkins Glen yesterday. Stupid beyond > belief--he whacked me in the back left corner trying to re-pass me in an turn > nine, and then tried to blame the wreck on me. I wound up pivoting on his > bumper, being shoved sideways down the track with a big ass 57' Corvette > rubbing my elbow and finally got shoved against the tire wall, which bent the > suspension mounts on the right front corner. He could of killed me, he did > indeed wreck the heck out of Peyote, and didn't have the integrity to even say > "sorry your car got wrecked" or "glad you didn't get hurt". > > Weasel. > > I've been on the guilty side of an incident like this once, and though it was > a lot less clearcut than this one (I hit a guy in the middle of his car when I > couldn't brake in time as he cut across a chicane),I stepped up and > apologized. Even paid for the guy's damage though I think it's wrong to do > that--we all assume the risk of damage or injury when we choose to race. I'll > fix my own car. > > The stewards didn't "decide" on their action, which I take to mean they wanted > everyone cleared out before they decide to do nothing. They were already > making noises about "mitigating aspects" when I talked to them, despite clear > evidence like a big punt mark in the back of my car, a video from Karon's > Devin, and lots of people that saw the incident. I know the corner worker on > the scene must have been looking the wrong way--he asked me what happened. > > If I did such a bonehead thing I'd expect to get suspended, but the guy has > run with SVRA for years and I'm just a guy from Oregon that they may never see > again. They're the ones that will have to race with the weenie, I certainly > wouldn't set a wheel on a track with him again. > > Anyway, the racing part of the tour is over. I'm making my way back across the > country to lick my wounds in Portland. we'll do a little sightseeing on the > way back and stop in Geneseo to pick up my motor from Uncle Jack. > > I will, of course, fix Peyote. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chasgee at aol.com Tue Sep 11 10:41:42 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:41:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just poking some fun! In-Reply-To: References: <571208BC-1672-4F31-9CF9-6023013B4E88@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8C9C2A9C4452104-1C0-293B@FWM-M29.sysops.aol.com> de-nuded.....what a great word. -----Original Message----- From: dos_gusanos at msn.com To: ""Greg Lunker Hilyer ; Sent: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 7:08 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Just poking some fun! I'd only been in the drink about three minutes when Greg must have spotted my FOT sticker on the windshield and quickly whisked me away to the nearest petrol dump where I was able to add another red can to my collection. I'm sure Greg saved me from being de-nuded of my MG GOF driving cap and other priceless motoring accessories. Thanks again for the rescue......................Cheers Henry > To: fot at autox.team.net> From: lunkercars at earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:00:12 -0600> Subject: [Fot] Just poking some fun!> > Worked the late shift on my new Formula Vee tonight. Then the 45 mile > drive from shop to home. Passed some old brit car broken down on the > shoulder. Took a hundred yards to process that - A. It's a Triumph > B. I've got tools C. I've got a shop full of parts less than 10 > miles away D. I can probably help. As I'm backing-up the shoulder, > I'm thinking A. Ignition problem? B. Charging problem? C. Wheel > bearing? D. Wait a minute, I think I know this car! Sure enough, up > walks our own Henry Morrison. As a relative newcomer to New Mexico > [11yrs] and FoT [3mos.], I never knew that 10pm on a monday night is > the proper time to test a TR3 sending unit. I could swear Henry was > stealing one of my old hitch-hiking lines with "but it showed 1/4 > tank!", but realized that he was serious... he believed 40+ year old > Lucas. Now we both know - Yes, 10pm on a monday night IS the time to > test such things. But NO, a 40+ year old gas gauge is not to be trusted.> Hope you understand Henry, that I'm laughing with you and not at you, > because we've all been there. Just glad I could help. On the other > hand, maybe that's what one gets for driving a TR to a Healey club > meeting.> Greg > _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From Labs0808 at aol.com Tue Sep 11 12:56:41 2007 From: Labs0808 at aol.com (Labs0808 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:56:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over Message-ID: Before we start to build a bronze shrine to Bill let us not forget that he is a aggressive driver who I believe made a clean but not completely thought out partial pass. I did have a birds eye view as I was gaining on the duo in the heat of battle. They way I saw it was that Move to the outside was risky at best especially against a driver that he spent little race time with, and often has had a known behavior or aggressive (sometimes wild driving manners) it was only qualifying session not a race, and as far as I can remember nobody is getting paid to stand on the podium. If we forget why we are there in the spirit of enjoying are friends are cars some good fun then we all lose, this last weekend in front of me I viewed the spin of a Lister as I dodged it on the grass as it slide down the track right at me, and the crash of two cars both situations I was close enough to have viewed and filmed. I told the boys that both were at fault in the crash but mostly the Corvette in my opinion was driving over his head in a car that not under control. I also heard later that the corner workers back that side of it up. Bill: Carl was looking for you at the dinner Saturday night to tell you his conclusions I enjoyed having the chance to visit and race with my step brother (peyote ) and meet you, best of luck putting the car back together again LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING IT OUT THERE AGAIN DOUG KARON ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Tue Sep 11 13:46:34 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:46:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Lime Rock and Watkins Glen photos In-Reply-To: <091120071639.23422.46E6C4D70008537400005B7E2200748184CE08019D099C@comcast.net> References: <091120071639.23422.46E6C4D70008537400005B7E2200748184CE08019D099C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <004701c7f4ac$773bd2b0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> I have posted a ton of photos of the Lime Rock and Watkins Glen events the last 2 weekends. Not many of Triumphs, but there are some lurking. Henry Frye makes a guest appearance... I was crewing for #928 MG-TD. We bailed out Sunday when the fog invaded even the near-empty garage! Great to see Ted Schumacher again, as always! I even caught him downtown with my camera! http://picasaweb.google.com/Milo066 Enjoy... Clark From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 11 13:55:31 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:55:31 EDT Subject: [Fot] Fwd: All Alluminum Tour is Over Message-ID: ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com Return-path: From: BillDentin at aol.com Full-name: BillDentin Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:54:13 EDT Subject: Re: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over To: Labs0808 at aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10721 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain In a message dated 09/11/2007 1:57:12 PM Central Daylight Time, Labs0808 at aol.com writes: > Before we start to build a bronze shrine to Bill let us not forget that he > > is a aggressive driver who I believe made a clean but not completely > thought > out partial pass. I did have a birds eye view as I was gaining on the duo > in > the heat of battle. > They way I saw it was that Move to the outside was risky at best > especially against a driver that he spent little race time with, and often > has had a > Doug... I suppose had you said, "GOLD or SILVER" I'd have found your opening line more palatable, but I'd actually support a BRONZE shrine for Babcock. I've raced with him twice this year at ROAD AMERICA, and also at BRAINERD, GRATTAN and WATKINS GLEN. I have no argument with your choice of the word 'aggressive' when describing his driving style, but without adding the words 'very capable' your sentence can be misleading to others. Bill Babcock is a very capable, and yes aggressive driver, or he would not end up in the front of the pack, chasing and holding off far more hairy chested machinery. I didn't have your front row seat behind the incident, so I should have no opinion as to what happened in the incident, nor where fault lies. The Thunder Bolt had a frozen clutch, so I watched that Qualifying Race (my Race Group) with Henry Frye at the fence between ONE and TWO. Clearly there was a gaggle of cars up front (including Babcock) who were going at it tooth and nail. Race Group FOUR was very impressive, and full of aggressive driving. But when I read Bill's text on the incident, he seemed far more concerned about the other driver's post race attitude and lack of remorse for his part in the incident. Each driver has responsibility for a safe pass, but the majority of that responsibility lies with the overtaking driver. In this case that's the Corvette, and the way I understand it, the Corvette hit the Peyote. If that's so, he ought to come back to the paddock willing to accept his portion of the guilt. Bronze Shrine! Are you aware of the Granite Shrine I built at ROAD AMERICA for my racing partner, Bob Wismer? It's the real deal. It weighs over 4,000 pounds. Of course, he never hit anybody and is not particularly aggressive. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From sgroh1 at comcast.net Tue Sep 11 16:15:59 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (Steven Groh) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:15:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over References: Message-ID: <002c01c7f4c1$59d930e0$6401a8c0@steven2sbouwlk> Doug, If you are responding to my earlier post by your use of the term "bronze shrine:" The construction of the shrine has absolutely nothing to do with your opinion that Bill is an aggressive driver. I happen value his character, which was demonstrated off-track all weekend. As far as your bird's eye view, if Peyote was hit in the extreme rear quarter panel, wouldn't you assume that Peyote had the corner? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over > Before we start to build a bronze shrine to Bill let us not forget that > he > is a aggressive driver who I believe made a clean but not completely > thought > out partial pass. I did have a birds eye view as I was gaining on the duo > in > the heat of battle. > They way I saw it was that Move to the outside was risky at best > especially against a driver that he spent little race time with, and > often has had a > known behavior or aggressive (sometimes wild driving manners) it was only > qualifying session not a race, and as far as I can remember nobody is > getting > paid to stand on the podium. > If we forget why we are there in the spirit of enjoying are friends are > cars some good fun then we all lose, this last weekend in front of me I > viewed > the spin of a Lister as I dodged it on the grass as it slide down the > track > right at me, and the crash of two cars both situations I was close enough > to > have viewed and filmed. > I told the boys that both were at fault in the crash but mostly the > Corvette in my opinion was driving over his head in a car that not under > control. I > also heard later that the corner workers back that side of it up. > Bill: Carl was looking for you at the dinner Saturday night to tell > you > his conclusions I enjoyed having the chance to visit and race with my > step > brother (peyote ) and meet you, best of luck putting the car back > together > again > LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING IT OUT THERE AGAIN > DOUG KARON > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Tue Sep 11 16:40:18 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:40:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? Message-ID: <20070911225332.KZHC9139.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> http://www.twitchguru.com/site/flash_videos/beer_cooling_comparison_international_edition.html I wonder if a car radiator would see a performance difference like that seen in the cooling capacity of beer and a computer CPU (at rest and under load). I would think that the you would certainly need to make sure to get the foam out of the beer or at least let it go flat before pouring into the radiator. Gunsness did not cool as well as Coors which in turn did not do as well as the German beer (some unpronounceable brand) they used but neither of them cooled as well as Molson. Interesting. Anyone going to try it in their car? HeHe... From tlizzard at msn.com Tue Sep 11 17:12:24 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 19:12:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? References: <20070911225332.KZHC9139.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: Well, alcohol was the "anti-freeze" of choice before glycol solutions came along. I fear beer would be a tad corrosive, owing to it's sugar content. I think beer is best left as a biological unit coolant. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: David W. Riddle To: wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com ; members at dctra.org ; fot at autox.team.net ; f500 at f500.org Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:40 PM Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? http://www.twitchguru.com/site/flash_videos/beer_cooling_comparison_interna tional_edition.html I wonder if a car radiator would see a performance difference like that seen in the cooling capacity of beer and a computer CPU (at rest and under load). I would think that the you would certainly need to make sure to get the foam out of the beer or at least let it go flat before pouring into the radiator. Gunsness did not cool as well as Coors which in turn did not do as well as the German beer (some unpronounceable brand) they used but neither of them cooled as well as Molson. Interesting. Anyone going to try it in their car? HeHe... _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Emoticon3.gif] From norlinengineering at comcast.net Tue Sep 11 17:55:21 2007 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:55:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005c01c7f4cf$375b81e0$020ba8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP> However, beer does make a great fire extinguisher. Used to carry a six pack in the old van just in case of emergencies. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Terry Stetler Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 4:12 PM To: wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com; members at dctra.org; fot at autox.team.net; f500 at f500.org; David W. Riddle Subject: Re: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? Well, alcohol was the "anti-freeze" of choice before glycol solutions came along. I fear beer would be a tad corrosive, owing to it's sugar content. I think beer is best left as a biological unit coolant. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: David W. Riddle To: wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com ; members at dctra.org ; fot at autox.team.net ; f500 at f500.org Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:40 PM Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? http://www.twitchguru.com/site/flash_videos/beer_cooling_comparison_interna tional_edition.html I wonder if a car radiator would see a performance difference like that seen in the cooling capacity of beer and a computer CPU (at rest and under load). I would think that the you would certainly need to make sure to get the foam out of the beer or at least let it go flat before pouring into the radiator. Gunsness did not cool as well as Coors which in turn did not do as well as the German beer (some unpronounceable brand) they used but neither of them cooled as well as Molson. Interesting. Anyone going to try it in their car? HeHe... _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Emoticon3.gif] _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html norlinengineering at comcast.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Tue Sep 11 20:40:10 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:40:10 -0600 Subject: [Fot] T shirts and coat of arms stickers Message-ID: <000001c7f4e6$3d429e60$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Does anyone know where I can get T shirts and coat of arms stickers. I think Ted is out of t shirts. Thanks Jim G From WEmery7451 at aol.com Tue Sep 11 20:40:43 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 22:40:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over Message-ID: In a message dated 9/9/07 4:54:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: <> Racing has certainly changed down through the decades. It use to be for the SPORT, and the overtaking car was responsible for safely passing the person being overtaken, even if he had to slow down. Now it appears that the faster cars have an open season to fly along as fast as they can under any condition, and when they hit someone, it is the other guy's fault -- the one who got hit. "He cut me off!" "He didn't give me racing room!" On and on. Sometimes, it appears that the safety stewards and race officials want to see more shrapnel fly to put on a better show for the audience. Someone gave me a tape of the E-Production race at the Runoffs last year. Before the end of the race, it appeared that about half of the cars were smashed up and off the track. In this area, the Sports Racer Ford drivers own the tracks, and anyone else out there with them are second class citizens. About 90% of all of the whining and bitching at any event seems to come from these SRF drivers. We just got back from spending a week in Portland. I had seen a show on the History Channel about Portland Underground, which was very interesting. The tour that we got on was somewhat disappointing. Most of the tunnels had been blocked off due to crooks using them to enter and rob buildings. This coming weekend, I will be driving from Pittsburgh to Williamsport, PA to help my boy with his TR-7. He will try to race it at Watkins Glen this weekend. I hope that he has better luck than he did the last time he was at Watkins Glen. He got knocked off of the track in his RX-7 Mazda, and went spinning down over the hill hitting a guard rail. His Mazda was trashed out of existence.


**************************************
See what's new at http://www.aol.com From fpspitfire at insightbb.com Tue Sep 11 20:57:40 2007 From: fpspitfire at insightbb.com (fpspitfire at insightbb.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:57:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] SCCA RunOffs Oct 7-14 Heartland Park Topeka, Message-ID: For those of you who are interested: The annual SCCA Run-Offs National Championship race is October 8th thru 14th at Heartland Park Topeka. The H-Production Race is Friday sometime (I can't remember exactly). http://www.scca.org for details. Since I have no crew, I have crew slots open if anyone in the area wants to come help out or just wants to come check out the action. Sponsorship is always welcome...the car is looking pretty clean with no decals on it. :) I plan on arriving the 7th and setting up camp for the week, but I plan on leaving friday after the race. I have the motor issues that popped up at Pocono fixed and the gearbox is sorted out. Plus Hoosier sent a pair of the new compound tires for me try courtesy of my win at St. Louis. Aaron Johnson #8 HP Spitfire 1500 Southern Illinois Region From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 11 21:20:12 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:20:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over References: Message-ID: Guilty as charged, sort of. The pass was complete, but it was pointless, there wasn't any way I could have held the position once we hit the chute coming out of the boot. But it wasn't really that aggressive a move, I had been following the guy for five laps, I got to watch in great detail how he went through the corners since I didn't have anything else to do. It was a pretty slow dance. It also wasn't really an outside pass--I got by him in the straight section before the turn in for the next corner when he went wide at the end of that carousel-like turn. The only reason it looked like an outside pass on the next corner is that he didn't let up when I started to turn in. I was already turning when he hit me, and he hit me on the rear corner. Not a nudge, like it would have been if I had cut him off, but a hard hit that smashed my subframe in. No way that could happen unless I was well in front of him. In other words, pass complete. I also had no idea the guy was a flake, except for the wild way he was cornering sometimes. A number of people came by afterwards and told me he has a rep for wild driving. One of the risks of doing this trip is that I DON'T know the people I'm driving with. I have to trust that they'll be rational. If I'd known he was that wild, I might not have have passed him. Of course if the club thinks he's that wild he should probably have someone talking to him. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "I told the boys they both were at fault in the crash" Do you mean you told me? You didn't, in fact you said exactly the opposite and said you had it all on video. I do like the idea of a bronze monument though. Could it be close to Wismer's? It would be nice to have an alternate place to let Sam leave his little olfactory messages. Incidentally, I'd love a copy of the video. It would be fun to see it. Any idea what Carl decided to do? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Labs0808 at aol.com Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 11:56 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] All Alluminum Tour is Over Before we start to build a bronze shrine to Bill let us not forget that he is a aggressive driver who I believe made a clean but not completely thought out partial pass. I did have a birds eye view as I was gaining on the duo in the heat of battle. They way I saw it was that Move to the outside was risky at best especially against a driver that he spent little race time with, and often has had a known behavior or aggressive (sometimes wild driving manners) it was only qualifying session not a race, and as far as I can remember nobody is getting paid to stand on the podium. If we forget why we are there in the spirit of enjoying are friends are cars some good fun then we all lose, this last weekend in front of me I viewed the spin of a Lister as I dodged it on the grass as it slide down the track right at me, and the crash of two cars both situations I was close enough to have viewed and filmed. I told the boys that both were at fault in the crash but mostly the Corvette in my opinion was driving over his head in a car that not under control. I also heard later that the corner workers back that side of it up. Bill: Carl was looking for you at the dinner Saturday night to tell you his conclusions I enjoyed having the chance to visit and race with my step brother (peyote ) and meet you, best of luck putting the car back together again LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING IT OUT THERE AGAIN DOUG KARON ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From WEmery7451 at aol.com Wed Sep 12 11:29:42 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:29:42 EDT Subject: [Fot] Use Beer as a coolant? Message-ID: In a message dated 9/11/07 4:55:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, norlinengineering at comcast.net writes: << I wonder if a car radiator would see a performance difference like that s een in the cooling capacity of beer and a computer CPU (at rest and under lo ad). >> The suger would probably plate inside all of the cooling passages, and cause overheating. It might be similar to antifreeze in the gastank, or an antifreeze leak into the engine. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Wed Sep 12 12:34:48 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:34:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hawk Blue pads for early Spitfire? Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715756@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> I'm looking for a set of Hawk Blue pads for my early Spitfire, but can't turn up an application number for them. Hawk's site and the distributor sites I've searched don't list Triumph applications or pads for Girling calipers. Must be time to switch to some fancy aftermarket calipers... Anybody have an idea of the Hawk Blue part number for the early Spit (Mk 2) caliper? Scott B. From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 12 13:05:06 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:05:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FT Nomination Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A8246FC@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> I would like to get Bobby Whitehead onto the FoT list. He took his drivers school this past weekend at a CVAR event here in Texas. Bobby has a beautiful Primrose yellow GT6 that came out of Florida and the car was extremely well prepared. When I took my drivers school in 1996 Bobby was there too, in a street TR6 (CVAR used to allow that). I hadn't seen him since so it is obvious that he has persevered and has finally come over to the racing Triumph side. Bobby would like to get in contact with the other GT6 characters out there for some transmission advice. CVAR didn't like the Toyota conversion. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 12 13:09:29 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:09:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] spitfire racer Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A824719@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> While I'm nominating folks I would also like to get Don Couch from my local Triumph club onto the FoT list. He has put together a very nice street/autocross Spitfire and has the bug. At our club meeting last night Don told me he has decided to step up from autocrossing into road racing and he has a 1979 Spitfire to convert into a racer. Our TX club stops at 1972 SCCA rules but I think that he can build it to the 1972 spec pretty easily. Don would love some help from the Spit contingent. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 From Fubog1 at aol.com Wed Sep 12 13:20:15 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:20:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] FT Nomination Message-ID: In a message dated 9/12/2007 3:05:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RKramer at rdoequipment.com writes: I would like to get Bobby Whitehead onto the FoT list. He took his drivers school this past weekend at a CVAR event here in Texas. Bobby has a beautiful Primrose yellow GT6 that came out of Florida and the car was extremely well prepared. Heck I'll second that! That car is the "reincarnation" of Mike Perrys old car from down here in south Fla. Bob Davis did a fantastic job on building the new car & I already heard through the "grapevine" that Bobby the new owner did a real fine job this past weekend. Safety FasTR Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 12 13:20:29 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:20:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Excessive oil temps Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A82474A@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> While I'm at it I might as well ask opinions from the list of my latest malady. This past weekend, when I wasn't spinning in my own oil (home made Accusump line shooting oil at the LF tire), I was suffering through a couple of problems that I think are related to oil cooling. I struggled with hot engine restarts all weekend and since it was 95 degrees with at least that much humidity, that meant every time after the first start-up in the morning. What happened first was the HS6 pistons and float jets were sticky. I replaced the jets with Grose jets and it got better but I noticed how hot the bowls were and that the pistons would bounce up and down and then stick down. During the Sunday mid day session I had to come off the track with excessive oil temps and a resulting drop in oil pressure. The water temp was 180 thanks to the aluminum radiator. I surmise that I failed to bleed out the air in the system on my fresh rebuild and the water wasn't circulating properly around the block. Does this sound reasonable? With the weather we were having and a late schedule I packed in in early and I haven't done work on it yet. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 From klynch_6 at msn.com Wed Sep 12 14:03:34 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:03:34 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Hawk Blue pads for early Spitfire? References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715756@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: Scott, the GT6 uses the #HB169E . 560 I had to do a little modification. Hope that's a starting point for you. Not sure how big a diff is between the Spits & 6's. ? Kev Lynch ----- Original Message ----- From: Barr, Scott To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 12:34 PM Subject: [Fot] Hawk Blue pads for early Spitfire? I'm looking for a set of Hawk Blue pads for my early Spitfire, but can't turn up an application number for them. Hawk's site and the distributor sites I've searched don't list Triumph applications or pads for Girling calipers. Must be time to switch to some fancy aftermarket calipers... Anybody have an idea of the Hawk Blue part number for the early Spit (Mk 2) caliper? Scott B. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From adcronin at ameritech.net Wed Sep 12 14:20:48 2007 From: adcronin at ameritech.net (A Daniel Cronin) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Brake Pads for Toyota 4-Pot Conversions Message-ID: <142215.31852.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Will be using the Toyota Calipers along with the TR6 front suspension components on my revamped TR2 and am wondering what brake pads those of you who have done this conversion would recommend (other than the stock Toyota pads for the 79 to 84 four wheel drive pickup) unless they are adequate. Car will not be a "race" car but will from time to time autocross and rally. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Dan Planning & Development Services A. Daniel Cronin 248 761-2673 From John.Reed at wilson.com Wed Sep 12 14:42:45 2007 From: John.Reed at wilson.com (John.Reed at wilson.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:42:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FT Nomination In-Reply-To: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A8246FC@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Message-ID: Great to have another GT6 racer. Second. Regards, John Reed Staff Photographer Wilson Sporting Goods Co. 8750 W Bryn Mawr Ave, Chicago, Illinois 60631, USA Tel. + 1.773.714.6895, fax +1.773.714.4585 John.Reed at wilson.com www.wilson.com www.amersports.com Please note that effective immediately, my e-mail , phone number and street address have changed. Please update your files accordingly. "Kramer, Robert" Sent by: fot-bounces+jreed=wilson.com at autox.team.net 09/12/07 12:05 PM To cc igofaster at charter.net Subject [Fot] FT Nomination I would like to get Bobby Whitehead onto the FoT list. He took his drivers school this past weekend at a CVAR event here in Texas. Bobby has a beautiful Primrose yellow GT6 that came out of Florida and the car was extremely well prepared. When I took my drivers school in 1996 Bobby was there too, in a street TR6 (CVAR used to allow that). I hadn't seen him since so it is obvious that he has persevered and has finally come over to the racing Triumph side. Bobby would like to get in contact with the other GT6 characters out there for some transmission advice. CVAR didn't like the Toyota conversion. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 jreed at wilson.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. From norlinengineering at comcast.net Wed Sep 12 14:52:40 2007 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:52:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hawk Blue pads for early Spitfire? In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715756@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <001801c7f57e$dc9dec10$020ba8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP> In looking through the Porterfield catalog, http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/ they list the Hawk Blue pad for the late Spitfire as an HB 118. This is for the 14 LF caliper. They do not list a Hawk pad for the earlier 12 SP caliper. They do however list their own pads for the early Spit caliper in their R-4 full race compound as a part no. GD 528. They also show rear shoes in this same compound. Anyone have experience with the Porterfield R-4 pads and shoes on a Spitfire? Jim Norlin -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Barr, Scott Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:35 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Hawk Blue pads for early Spitfire? I'm looking for a set of Hawk Blue pads for my early Spitfire, but can't turn up an application number for them. Hawk's site and the distributor sites I've searched don't list Triumph applications or pads for Girling calipers. Must be time to switch to some fancy aftermarket calipers... Anybody have an idea of the Hawk Blue part number for the early Spit (Mk 2) caliper? Scott B. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jhassall at blacksburg.net Wed Sep 12 17:02:11 2007 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:02:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Looking for used SU needles Message-ID: <46E86FF3.6040707@blacksburg.net> Amci, A friend of mine is trying to fine-tune a set of HS6 SUs he has adapted to his hot TR6. He's looking for a used set of SU needles (pls see his note below). Pls respond directly to osternd at copper.net, not me (let's eliminate (figuratively speaking) the middle man). Looking for SU Needles I'm trying to do an SU HS6 conversion on my '76 TR6 and am in need of some needles for modification. Wonder if anyone might have a set of used ones that they would like to part with. Surface condition is not too critical as they will be shaved down, but do need to be straight. They also need to be the spring loaded type, 0.100". I modified a set of BDB needles but went a tad too far and am running a bit richer than I would like. For some reason, it seems to be easier to go richer than leaner! The profile ended up being similar to a BCM needle, though richer. So, anything leaner than BCM or similar should work. -- J.C. Hassall Blacksburg VA 64 TR4 in autox preparation 95% finished, 90% to go From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 12 17:22:28 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:22:28 EDT Subject: [Fot] Looking for used SU needles Message-ID: The latest Kastner book shows how to make modifications to the needles and make them identical to each other. It is simple materials and comprehensive instructions. Use with Dremel. I recommend that he buy Kas' Book. Joe A From trbilbo at aol.com Wed Sep 12 19:38:46 2007 From: trbilbo at aol.com (trbilbo at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:38:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Looking for used SU needles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9C3BDF60BF509-750-BE84@mblk-r36.sysops.aol.com> I acquired a huge (hundred and hundreds) old stock of needles and will be unpacking them in the next couple of months. ANYone interested in numbers or ALL let me know as I will not be keeping this. Most are sorted. Some are not. Coming in a storage container but I did wrap carefully so fingers crossed. Let me know wants now and I will keep you on a list and repost when I uncover them shortly. Thanks all. Billy B. (Burroughs) #195 65 TR4A IRS ALSO... have a fellow with a 72 GT6 complete but disassembled in El Segundo (near LAX) Frame stripped painted as are most parts. Car is complete and titled but needs assembly Price is FREE. He doesn't want it to go to the crusher. Contact me here or cal me direct at 310-871-2491 my cell for his number -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: jhassall at blacksburg.net; fot at autox.team.net; osternd at copper.net Sent: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 4:22 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Looking for used SU needles The latest Kastner book shows how to make modifications to the needles and make them identical to each other. It is simple materials and comprehensive instructions. Use with Dremel. I recommend that he buy Kas' Book. Joe A trbilbo at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From jwags at dotnet.com Wed Sep 12 21:13:41 2007 From: jwags at dotnet.com (jwags at dotnet.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:13:41 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: [Fot] Single wire alternator Message-ID: <46E8AAE5.000001.05828@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> I don't often have things to say, but last night while getting the purple(74) TR3 ready for Road America I turned the kill switch off with the engine running and to my surprise Everything kept running,engine,fuel pump,fan, O my! Even the brake lights worked. With a little time on the web I fond that a single wire alternator needs to be hook to The battery side of the kill switch, and not the starter. A little longer and larger wire Did the trick. We had been running like that for years. Tech always checks the switch with the engine Off. So if any one in FOT land thinks they might be in the same boat starter up and Turn off the kill switch. Just the wrench John Wagner From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Thu Sep 13 06:58:18 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:58:18 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Well, maybe I'm getting just a little too itchy to get one of the Spitfires back on track before the snow flies, but here's the question. Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us some laps? #49Blue's all ready to go, except for the broken axle. #48White will require a lot more work after sitting for 14 years, but has some hell-for-stout looking rear axles under it. Scott B. From herald948 at aol.com Thu Sep 13 07:59:44 2007 From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:59:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <8C9C42578E164BC-4F0-B52@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us some laps? ==AM== I don't think you'd need to switch springs, but there are differences in radius rods and/or mounts to the body (not sure which) and in brake hydraulic hoses. Also, if the car with the shorter "donor" axles is old enough, it might have the smaller flanges to the differential? Otherwise, it's only a 2" total difference in track width. Maybe that's a lot, but possibly a bit of creativity with wheels and/or wheel spacers could compensate? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Thu Sep 13 08:01:29 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:01:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C744DE8A3@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Wow, I didn't know the track difference was 2 inches. That seems like a lot. Certainly a lot to make up with wheel spacers... ----- Original Message ----- From: herald948 at aol.com To: Barr, Scott; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thu Sep 13 08:59:44 2007 Subject: Re: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us some laps? ==AM== I don't think you'd need to switch springs, but there are differences in radius rods and/or mounts to the body (not sure which) and in brake hydraulic hoses. Also, if the car with the shorter "donor" axles is old enough, it might have the smaller flanges to the differential? Otherwise, it's only a 2" total difference in track width. Maybe that's a lot, but possibly a bit of creativity with wheels and/or wheel spacers could compensate? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 13 08:32:51 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:32:51 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <002701c7f612$f726ae20$2d02a8c0@Belkin> The spring really has nothing to do with the axle length. The springs are the same length through the entire series of Spits. The axle length only has to do with the amount of negative camber is created. You should replace the spring only if you want to do away with a lot of body roll (which is the effect created by the swing-spring rocker box). The early MkIV's had the swing spring and shorter axles and Apparently Triumph felt that was not doing what they intended when they introduced the swing-spring. Then they went to the longer axles. I have long suspected that if they had stayed with a fixed spring and just increased axle length, they would have fixed the wheel tuck problem by increasing spring rate. The exagerated negative camber goes a long way toward preventing the dreaded wheel tuck in a hard turn. You might find that the best performance will be from a fixed spring (with the necessary tuning of front and rear suspension) and the long axles. I have a camber compensator kit that I developed for fixed spring, long axle cars just in case it is needed. Joe C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barr, Scott" To: Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:58 AM Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? > Well, maybe I'm getting just a little too itchy to get one of the > Spitfires back on track before the snow flies, but here's the question. > > Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work > on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? > > The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us > some laps? > > #49Blue's all ready to go, except for the broken axle. #48White will > require a lot more work after sitting for 14 years, but has some > hell-for-stout looking rear axles under it. > > Scott B. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From twakeman at razzolink.com Thu Sep 13 08:35:48 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:35:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Message-ID: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> Earlier this year I gave up on my Lucas distributor and converted to a Mallory dual point system. I've been much happier with the distributor curve. However it goes through condensers like popcorn at the movies. Some go bad in as little as 1000 miles. This is the first time I ever had condensers go bad on me. I'm puzzled by the cause and any suggestions would be welcome. Vehicle Triumph TR3A. Coil Lucas Sport coil Newer battery with freshly cleaned terminals. Battery wiring stock. Electrical wiring stock except for alternator conversion and electric fan. I've never had a condenser go bad with a Lucas distributor in the same environment. Voltmeter shows no resistance ground between point ground plate and distributor body. Are Mallory condensers unusually fragile? Is there a common substitute I can use that is a bit more robust? Is there something I'm overlooking? Right now I'm afraid to go out to dinner or to the grocery store without a spare condenser and tools in the boot. TeriAnn From herald948 at aol.com Thu Sep 13 09:06:42 2007 From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:06:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C744DE8A3@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C744DE8A3@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <8C9C42ED42D7519-4F0-FCC@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott Wow, I didn't know the track difference was 2 inches. That seems like a lot. Certainly a lot to make up with wheel spacers... ==AM== Just guessing, but maybe the right wheel offset could help compensate for that? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Sep 13 09:14:44 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> Message-ID: Hi, I'm running the Mallory dual point on both my TR6's. On the street car, I had the exact (or similar) behavior where condensors go bad in an unpredictable manner. On the race car, I had problems when I first put the car together, but I did play with the wiring and more than once wound up wiring the ignition wrong which led to no start conditions and head scratching. I use a slightly different coil setup for either car, though. On the race car, I use an MSD blaster coil which has no internal resistance, so I installed an MSD ballast resistor. That setup seems to "eat" less condensors than when I first installed the Mallory dizzy. But if the car is raced on a very hot day, there is some likelyhood that the condensor will fail or start to get flakey. On the street car, I just carried a couple of spares condensors. I tried all sorts of combos in that car. I started with a Crane PS20 (I think) coil (it was already there from when I ran the Crane X700 ignition box). I switched to the MSD Blaster (TR6 has a built-in ballast resistor) - still got failures in what seemed like random fashion. I even bought a Mallory coil - that _should_ work, right? I eventually gave up on the points in the street car and bought a Pertronix Ignitor this year. Owing to the reported "reliability" of the Pertronix, I elected to carry a spare unit in the boot (along with the Mallory dual-point setup - both are ready to drop in at a moments notice. So far I've gone about 2k miles with the Pertronix with no probs - knock wood. For the street car, I was sure that the problem was related to the use of an electric tach because if I left the tach disconnected the points seemed last thousands instead of hundreds of miles. However, while I've been writing this response I thought of another possibility that might come into play. On TR6, when you turn the ignition key and engage the starter, a wire on the starter bypasses the ballast resistor to give 12 vdc to the coil. I wonder if the extra voltage through the coil (the MSD and Crane both have ZERO internal resistance) is a prob for the condensor. Here's something to try - if TR3 bypasses the ballast to the coil (I have no idea how the TR3 is wired) when you start the car, try keeping that wire off the coil and see if the condensors last any longer. On TR6, there's a white wire with black trace that is the 12 feed to the dizzy. On the stock wiring harness, the push on connector is shared with the ballasted wire from the ignition switch, so rather than hack that, you could just leave the other end off the starter (but use a tie wrap to keep it from hitting the exhaust header) and see if that works. The only other thing that I can think of is heat-related internal failure of the condensors, but that's a stretch, at best. As a point of information, I asked the exact same question that you ask about 2 or 3 years ago on this list and at least one other Triumph list. The feedback that I got was inconclusive but practically nobody said "oh ya, I had that problem". I found the lack of similar experience to be frustrating at the time. But if TR3 has a 12 volt feed while you're cranking the engine, try bypassing it so the coil always gets 6 volts and see if the condensors last any longer. FWIW, Summit Racing sells the Mallory condensors (#400) for about $8. They've gone up about $3 in the last 3 years, but I've never had to backorder and I get three or four at a time to spread the shipping costs out. Let us know if the suggstions work. Regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Sep 13 09:23:43 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:23:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> Message-ID: Hi, Sorry for the long posting, but I forgot one thing. When I asked this question before, I got a few responses that said "check the ground". The strap around the condensor has a plating on it (cadmium, I think) and I typically use some fine sandpaper on the surface that mates to the dizzy body to assure a good ground. But if you have a digital multimeter, check the resistance from the condensor body to the battery ground. It should be 0.00. 1 or two ohms is probably okay, but any more than that and you've got a bad ground connection somewhere that needs to be addressed. Regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From S.Janzen at comcast.net Thu Sep 13 09:34:19 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:34:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> Message-ID: <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> I just fitted a Mallory to my GT6 and have been having intermittent ignition problems, mostly a misfire at high speed. What are the symptoms you are experiencing with condenser failure? Several people have mentioned Robert's last comment - including Century, a big Mallory seller - which is that the condenser should be sanded to remove a coating on it which apparently inhibits grounding. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Lang" To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Cc: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems > Hi, > > Sorry for the long posting, but I forgot one thing. When I asked this > question before, I got a few responses that said "check the ground". The > strap around the condensor has a plating on it (cadmium, I think) and I > typically use some fine sandpaper on the surface that mates to the dizzy > body to assure a good ground. But if you have a digital multimeter, check > the resistance from the condensor body to the battery ground. It should be > 0.00. 1 or two ohms is probably okay, but any more than that and you've > got a bad ground connection somewhere that needs to be addressed. > > Regards, > rml > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent > Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | > Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Sep 13 10:01:22 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Sep 2007, Scott Janzen wrote: > I just fitted a Mallory to my GT6 and have been having intermittent ignition > problems, mostly a misfire at high speed. What are the symptoms you are > experiencing with condenser failure? Several people have mentioned Robert's > last comment - including Century, a big Mallory seller - which is that the > condenser should be sanded to remove a coating on it which apparently > inhibits grounding. The condensor failing will show in one of two ways - intermittent poor spark where the car will misfire once or twice under load but the "recover" and total failure. With total failure you get a very weak spark (yellow with a test plug) and in my case the car won't even start (although it might "cough" when trying to start it. If you replace the condensor with a known good one, the car will start up and the misfire is GONE. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Thu Sep 13 10:35:22 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:35:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Message-ID: I put a Mallory Distributor on my Vitesse a few years back, and at the same time fitted the Pertronix Hall-effect unit. Therefore I have never experienced a condensor, or points problem with the Mallory. The reason I fitted the Mallory was because of the wear on my Lucas unit, after all of 12,000 miles from new, plus the horrible quality of the modern reproduction caps and rotor arms, although better rotor arms are now beginning to 'surface'. I had already been using the Pertronix system on both my Vitesse, with Lucas distributor, and previously on my Herald with Lucas distributor, with complete satisfaction of those units. I had previously used other electronic ignition systems, mostly Luminition optical type systems which had proved very unreliable in practice, which is why I avoided Mallory's own optronic system, instead opting for the Pertronix. So far, so good with the Mallory/Petrtronix combo! Hope this helps some. Best Regards Lion From twakeman at razzolink.com Thu Sep 13 11:21:56 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:21:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: <46E971B4.5000702@razzolink.com> Scott Janzen wrote: > What are the symptoms you are experiencing with condenser failure? The failure seems to follow a logarithmic curve. First it is an occasional misfire while driving along and just when I start thinking of buying some new media for my spark plug cleaner it starts acting like I have a badly clogged fuel filter or torn fuel pump diaphragm and the carbs are not getting near enough fuel and then it quickly progresses to seeming like the timing chain jumped a tooth. First time it happened, I checked point gap, the cap rotor & plug wires, then I swapped in a new set of plugs, replaced the fuel filter then the fuel pump. Then drained out all the fuel (The condenser went bad right after I filled the fuel tank), blew out the fuel lines and added different fuel. At wits end I replaced the condenser. In decades of driving this was the first time I had ever had a condenser go bad on me and had no idea what the symptoms might be. Now at the slightest miss I think condenser. I find myself thinking about installing a high volume condenser dispenser, and how many I have to buy at a time to get a volume discount. Will another brand of condenser work? Do I need a special Mallory condenser or can I just go to my cheapo chain store & get something generic? Please keep those suggestions coming. Meanwhile I'll go out and sand the coating off the condenser I installed yesterday to replace the one I installed by the side of the road a few weeks ago. Thanks TeriAnn From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Sep 13 13:51:01 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: <46E971B4.5000702@razzolink.com> References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> <002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> <46E971B4.5000702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: Hi, Last time I bought some of the Mallory 400 condensers, the packaging listed the rating of the part, I think it's .28 microfarads. I know that NAPA has replacement condensors that look the same (same can, same connector) but have a blue wire, not orange like the Mallory. The NAPA part works, but I never stress tested to make sure that they work exactly the same as the Mallory part. I think the alternate replacement part is for a Jeep, but I could be wrong. It was def. a "drop-in" replacement. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From budscars at msn.com Thu Sep 13 14:42:31 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:42:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Vintage Spitfire Racecar Project Message-ID: <003101c7f646$9e222550$e883b304@Bud> ----contact Bruce John at bjohn at bart.gov for info Racer Bud MK 1 Vintage Spitfire Racecar Project Car has SCCA Logbook, is completely disassembled for restoration to CSRG approved vintage race configuration. Parts Included: Heavy duty competition after market rear axles GT6 Transmission converted to Spitfire configuration Vitesse close ratio transmission Several stock transmissions 4.11 Locked 3rd members Lightened steel flywheel Aluminum flywheel Hooker header Custom built HD Radiator Fuel cell with Aluminum housing 3 -1147 engines $1200.00 for all Bruce Bjohn at bart.gov Work: 510-464-6864 Home: 510-530-0614 From jaboruch at netzero.net Thu Sep 13 15:20:12 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:20:12 GMT Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Message-ID: <20070913.172012.26009.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> I had at this same problem with bad condensers a few years ago on my race TR3. I decided (after consulting this esteemed group) that Mallory was making junk condensers and gave up on them. I gutted the mallory dual point of the advance weights (had these fail too), condenser and one set of points. Now I just use a set of points as a trigger for an MSD6AL box and use an MSD electronic advance box. Joe(B) -- TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: Earlier this year I gave up on my Lucas distributor and converted to a Mallory dual point system. I've been much happier with the distributor curve. However it goes through condensers like popcorn at the movies. Some go bad in as little as 1000 miles. This is the first time I ever had condensers go bad on me. I'm puzzled by the cause and any suggestions would be welcome. Vehicle Triumph TR3A. Coil Lucas Sport coil Newer battery with freshly cleaned terminals. Battery wiring stock. Electrical wiring stock except for alternator conversion and electric fan. I've never had a condenser go bad with a Lucas distributor in the same environment. Voltmeter shows no resistance ground between point ground plate and distributor body. Are Mallory condensers unusually fragile? Is there a common substitute I can use that is a bit more robust? Is there something I'm overlooking? Right now I'm afraid to go out to dinner or to the grocery store without a spare condenser and tools in the boot. TeriAnn jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click to find great rates on medical insurance, save big, shop here. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmNwFdMlhcDuS98ik2sJAy1AW4 u5m7oGpsRFbDbsFhB0ojkd/ From vintage.racer at comcast.net Thu Sep 13 16:08:55 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:08:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory Distributor Message-ID: <001f01c7f652$ad111ec0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: I installed a Mallory dual point distributor with Bosch coil on my racing TR4 last year and have run six events without a problem. Then during the last race, I noticed a "hesitation" at about 4,500 rpm under acceleration which I attributed to vibration upsetting the fuel supply in the carbs (new motor mounts, hard mounted carbs). I have since isolated the carbs with the Weber style rubber mounts, hope this solves the problem. However, after reading this thread, I'm also going to do a bit of light sanding of the condenser as suggested just in case it is contributing or is the cause of the dreaded hesitation. My street TR6 uses a stock ignition setup and I've had zero problems in the eight months I've owned the car. Granted, its an around town car, no extended trips so far but it starts right up every time and the engine runs nice and smooth. Gary 62 TR4 69 TR6 From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Thu Sep 13 17:43:49 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:43:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? In-Reply-To: <8C9C42578E164BC-4F0-B52@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com> References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <8C9C42578E164BC-4F0-B52@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <008101c7f65f$f07ba6f0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> I've done it for short term while acquiring a proper axle. The toe-in will be wrong unless you do something to compensate. Otherwise ok. But why bother? Clark -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of herald948 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:00 AM To: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us some laps? ==AM== I don't think you'd need to switch springs, but there are differences in radius rods and/or mounts to the body (not sure which) and in brake hydraulic hoses. Also, if the car with the shorter "donor" axles is old enough, it might have the smaller flanges to the differential? Otherwise, it's only a 2" total difference in track width. Maybe that's a lot, but possibly a bit of creativity with wheels and/or wheel spacers could compensate? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Thu Sep 13 20:10:30 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:10:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> Message-ID: <003901c7f674$6d6986a0$6401a8c0@TER2> The capacitance of the condensor is related to the resistance of the priimary windings of the coil that is in the circuit. So the coil is critical!. The Mallory condensors may also not be as robust as they could be. A couple of years ago, when setting up a Mallory unit for a competition car, I noticed that the total dwell time available using the dual poiints in the Mallory system was WAY less than the 60 degrees of dwell available when using a Lucas 25 D or DM2 distributor. I called Mallory and taked to one of their engineers about this. Their response was that the windings of the Lucas coils are such that they take longer to charge up and so require a longer dwell time and a Mallory brand coil. He suggested that a Mallory coil was necessary in order to get the most perfromance from the Mallory distributor and that the condensor would then be matched to the coil. Greg Solow. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 7:35 AM Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems > Earlier this year I gave up on my Lucas distributor and converted to a > Mallory dual point system. I've been much happier with the distributor > curve. However it goes through condensers like popcorn at the movies. > Some go bad in as little as 1000 miles. This is the first time I ever > had condensers go bad on me. > > I'm puzzled by the cause and any suggestions would be welcome. > > Vehicle Triumph TR3A. > Coil Lucas Sport coil > Newer battery with freshly cleaned terminals. Battery wiring stock. > Electrical wiring stock except for alternator conversion and electric > fan. I've never had a condenser go bad with a Lucas distributor in the > same environment. > > Voltmeter shows no resistance ground between point ground plate and > distributor body. > > Are Mallory condensers unusually fragile? Is there a common substitute > I can use that is a bit more robust? Is there something I'm overlooking? > > Right now I'm afraid to go out to dinner or to the grocery store without > a spare condenser and tools in the boot. > > TeriAnn > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From emanteno at comcast.net Thu Sep 13 20:59:37 2007 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 02:59:37 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <091420070259.2714.46E9F918000BCB3300000A9A2207021573970A9D010507@comcast.net> Friends, I'd like to nominate Mark Vaden for membership in the FOT. Mark is in SoCal and is prepping a 62 TR4 to race with VARA, and I know he needs our help. Seconds? Mark's email is markvaden at gmail.com Irv Korey From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 21:26:51 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <091420070259.2714.46E9F918000BCB3300000A9A2207021573970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <340523.45358.qm@web57613.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Wow the guy has two strikes against him already; 1st) being nominated by Irv the Perv and 2nd) needing our help; but okay, a second. Welcome, Ernie Husmann emanteno at comcast.net wrote: Friends, I'd like to nominate Mark Vaden for membership in the FOT. Mark is in SoCal and is prepping a 62 TR4 to race with VARA, and I know he needs our help. Seconds? Mark's email is markvaden at gmail.com Irv Korey ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From BillB at bnj.com Thu Sep 13 21:18:43 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:18:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com><002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com><46E971B4.5000702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: There's nothing magic about the Mallory condensors (capacitors)--anything will work just as well. Condensers ideally are matched to the coil and ballast resistor, the distributor type doesn't matter except that dual point distys have really long dwell so the coil gets well saturated. I haven't had much problem with my mallory capacitors, but it's probably for two reasons--I run straight battery so my system runs at lower voltage, and I have a ballast resistor permanently wired in place. The condensors have to handle about 400 volts, that's what the voltage may climb to when the points open and the magnetic flux collapses. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Robert Lang Sent: Thu 9/13/2007 12:51 PM To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Hi, Last time I bought some of the Mallory 400 condensers, the packaging listed the rating of the part, I think it's .28 microfarads. I know that NAPA has replacement condensors that look the same (same can, same connector) but have a blue wire, not orange like the Mallory. The NAPA part works, but I never stress tested to make sure that they work exactly the same as the Mallory part. I think the alternate replacement part is for a Jeep, but I could be wrong. It was def. a "drop-in" replacement. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 21:35:48 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:35:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: <003901c7f674$6d6986a0$6401a8c0@TER2> References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com> <003901c7f674$6d6986a0$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0709132035x586b6dag78d5ccac64f3d6a9@mail.gmail.com> Of course, one other splution is to get rid of the points and use a Mallory Unilite [spelling?] conversion -- seems to work very well for me. On 9/13/07, Greg Solow wrote: > > The capacitance of the condensor is related to the resistance of the > priimary windings of the coil that is in the circuit. So the coil is > critical!. The Mallory condensors may also not be as robust as they could > be. > A couple of years ago, when setting up a Mallory unit for a > competition > car, I noticed that the total dwell time available using the dual poiints > in > the Mallory system was WAY less than the 60 degrees of dwell available > when > using a Lucas 25 D or DM2 distributor. I called Mallory and taked to one > of > their engineers about this. Their response was that the windings of the > Lucas coils are such that they take longer to charge up and so require a > longer dwell time and a Mallory brand coil. He suggested that a Mallory > coil > was necessary in order to get the most perfromance from the Mallory > distributor and that the condensor would then be matched to the coil. > > Greg Solow. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" > To: "Friends of Triumph" > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 7:35 AM > Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems > > > > Earlier this year I gave up on my Lucas distributor and converted to a > > Mallory dual point system. I've been much happier with the distributor > > curve. However it goes through condensers like popcorn at the movies. > > Some go bad in as little as 1000 miles. This is the first time I ever > > had condensers go bad on me. > > > > I'm puzzled by the cause and any suggestions would be welcome. > > > > Vehicle Triumph TR3A. > > Coil Lucas Sport coil > > Newer battery with freshly cleaned terminals. Battery wiring stock. > > Electrical wiring stock except for alternator conversion and electric > > fan. I've never had a condenser go bad with a Lucas distributor in the > > same environment. > > > > Voltmeter shows no resistance ground between point ground plate and > > distributor body. > > > > Are Mallory condensers unusually fragile? Is there a common substitute > > I can use that is a bit more robust? Is there something I'm overlooking? > > > > Right now I'm afraid to go out to dinner or to the grocery store without > > a spare condenser and tools in the boot. > > > > TeriAnn > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From BillB at bnj.com Thu Sep 13 22:55:35 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:55:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Single wire alternator References: <46E8AAE5.000001.05828@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> Message-ID: I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone turn off their kill switch and nothing happens. I suspect that's one of the most common race car wiring errors. By the way, your solution isn't a great one--you'll have battery voltage to your alternator all the time. What you really need is a double pole kill switch with the alternator wire connecting to the smaller switch and then to either the batter or engine side. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of jwags at dotnet.com Sent: Wed 9/12/2007 8:13 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Single wire alternator I don't often have things to say, but last night while getting the purple(74) TR3 ready for Road America I turned the kill switch off with the engine running and to my surprise Everything kept running,engine,fuel pump,fan, O my! Even the brake lights worked. With a little time on the web I fond that a single wire alternator needs to be hook to The battery side of the kill switch, and not the starter. A little longer and larger wire Did the trick. We had been running like that for years. Tech always checks the switch with the engine Off. So if any one in FOT land thinks they might be in the same boat starter up and Turn off the kill switch. Just the wrench John Wagner billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mdporter at dfn.com Thu Sep 13 23:16:54 2007 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:16:54 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Single wire alternator In-Reply-To: References: <46E8AAE5.000001.05828@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> Message-ID: <46EA1946.2050409@dfn.com> Bill Babcock wrote: > I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone turn off their kill switch > and nothing happens. I suspect that's one of the most common race car wiring > errors. By the way, your solution isn't a great one--you'll have battery > voltage to your alternator all the time. What you really need is a double pole > kill switch with the alternator wire connecting to the smaller switch and then > to either the batter or engine side. > > > My story about this is more commercial than hobby. When Detroit Diesel first started to put electronic controls on their commercial engines, their engine computers ran on 12V and the injector drivers on 24V. So, when the 12V kill switch was turned off, the engine quit. Then, with the Series 50, they converted to their DDEC III computer, which ran entirely on 24V. Now, no one thought about it, because there was a 24V kill switch, too. Shut them both off, the engine should shut down in an emergency. But, they didn't. The MBTA in Boston went nuts on a new order of buses, because they'd trained all the emergency personnel, fire, cops, ambulance, their own people, to shut down the engines in an emergency with the kill switches. It was a simple circuit problem--because of the way the harnesses were wired--with separate 12V and 24V circuits and regulators, the 24V side formed a loop with the alternator charging circuit which kept the computer voltage at 24V. Hence, nothing stopped when the 24V switch was thrown to off. When I heard my boss explaining to the MBTA on the phone about how our engineers said it would take $600/bus and a year to design a fix, I went to the catalogs and found a Cole-Hersee switch with a field shut-off for about four bucks more than we were paying for the 12V switch from them we were using, and designed a jumper harness to the 24V reg circuit that cost us $1.80 to make. That Cole-Hersee switch is probably still in the catalogs (ten years ago, it was about $40 in bulk) and was made for marine use (silver-plated contacts). That's the way to fix any problem with persistent running. Shut off the battery positively, shut off the field and/or alternator output positively (in the case of single-wire units) and the electrons stop, too. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Fri Sep 14 06:36:51 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 07:36:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? In-Reply-To: <008101c7f65f$f07ba6f0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <8C9C42578E164BC-4F0-B52@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com> <008101c7f65f$f07ba6f0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7471590C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <> 'Cuz I need to do it short term while acquiring a proper axle :-) I've got some alternative trailing arms I hope to use to get the toe right - no real way to know until the axles are in the car. Thanks, Clark. Scott B. -----Original Message----- From: Clark W. Nicholls [mailto:clarkfot at cwnicholls.net] Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 6:44 PM To: herald948 at aol.com; Barr, Scott; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? I've done it for short term while acquiring a proper axle. The toe-in will be wrong unless you do something to compensate. Otherwise ok. But why bother? Clark -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of herald948 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:00 AM To: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? -----Original Message----- From: Barr, Scott Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us some laps? ==AM== I don't think you'd need to switch springs, but there are differences in radius rods and/or mounts to the body (not sure which) and in brake hydraulic hoses. Also, if the car with the shorter "donor" axles is old enough, it might have the smaller flanges to the differential? Otherwise, it's only a 2" total difference in track width. Maybe that's a lot, but possibly a bit of creativity with wheels and/or wheel spacers could compensate? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Fri Sep 14 08:05:47 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 07:05:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747157A8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com><8C9C42578E164BC-4F0-B52@Webmail-mg12.sysops.aol.com><008101c7f65f$f07ba6f0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7471590C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <001401c7f6d8$59b8ca80$2d02a8c0@Belkin> Get some of Clive Averill's aluminum turnbuckle radius arms with the Hiem joint ends. Then you can set the toe as you need. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barr, Scott" To: "Clark W. Nicholls" ; ; Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 5:36 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? > <> 'Cuz I need to do it short term while acquiring a > proper axle :-) > > I've got some alternative trailing arms I hope to use to get the toe > right - no real way to know until the axles are in the car. > > Thanks, Clark. > > Scott B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Clark W. Nicholls [mailto:clarkfot at cwnicholls.net] > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 6:44 PM > To: herald948 at aol.com; Barr, Scott; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: RE: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? > > I've done it for short term while acquiring a proper axle. > The toe-in will be wrong unless you do something to compensate. > Otherwise ok. > But why bother? > Clark > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+clarkfot=cwnicholls.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > herald948 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:00 AM > To: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Early (shorter) rear axles in square-tail Spit? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barr, Scott > > Would the shorter (narrower track) swing axles from an earlier car work > on a later Spitfire if I swapped the spring along with the axles? > > The narrower track would not be ideal, I'm sure, but would it get us > some laps? > > ==AM== > I don't think you'd need to switch springs, but there are differences in > radius rods and/or mounts to the body (not sure which) and in brake > hydraulic hoses. Also, if the car with the shorter "donor" axles is old > enough, it might have the smaller flanges to the differential? > > Otherwise, it's only a 2" total difference in track width. Maybe that's > a lot, but possibly a bit of creativity with wheels and/or wheel spacers > could compensate? > > --Andy Mace > > *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? > *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, > Triumph Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > > Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph > Herald Database at its new URL: > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > clarkfot at cwnicholls.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Fri Sep 14 09:03:16 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:03:16 GMT Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Message-ID: <20070914.110316.4067.1@webmail01.dca.untd.com> I also do not run an alternator and had a ballast resistor, but kept having failed condensers. Maybe the Accel Super Coil was not a good match, but the combination did work well for years. Joe(B) -- "Bill Babcock" wrote: There's nothing magic about the Mallory condensors (capacitors)--anything will work just as well. Condensers ideally are matched to the coil and ballast resistor, the distributor type doesn't matter except that dual point distys have really long dwell so the coil gets well saturated. I haven't had much problem with my mallory capacitors, but it's probably for two reasons--I run straight battery so my system runs at lower voltage, and I have a ballast resistor permanently wired in place. The condensors have to handle about 400 volts, that's what the voltage may climb to when the points open and the magnetic flux collapses. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Robert Lang Sent: Thu 9/13/2007 12:51 PM To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Hi, Last time I bought some of the Mallory 400 condensers, the packaging listed the rating of the part, I think it's .28 microfarads. I know that NAPA has replacement condensors that look the same (same can, same connector) but have a blue wire, not orange like the Mallory. The NAPA part works, but I never stress tested to make sure that they work exactly the same as the Mallory part. I think the alternate replacement part is for a Jeep, but I could be wrong. It was def. a "drop-in" replacement. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click here and get the professional resume help you need. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlRJjPdbA489riu5RA4sJjDxkd M4A90Kb3VkzOOTCTEZ6AWW/ From S.Janzen at comcast.net Fri Sep 14 10:03:39 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:03:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems References: <20070914.110316.4067.1@webmail01.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <001601c7f6e8$d11f3f40$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> OK - dumb question, but how do I know if I need a ballast resistor and what capicity/where should it be wired? Have the afore-mentioned Mallory set-up, currently running with a Bosch Blue coil, no visible resistor anywhere. The GT6 has a totally bastardized wiring system - very little stock left (rear wiring harness bits) but no resistor anywhere. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Boruch" To: Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems >I also do not run an alternator and had a ballast resistor, but kept having > failed condensers. Maybe the Accel Super Coil was not a good match, but > the > combination did work well for years. Joe(B) > > -- "Bill Babcock" wrote: > There's nothing magic about the Mallory condensors (capacitors)--anything > will > work just as well. Condensers ideally are matched to the coil and ballast > resistor, the distributor type doesn't matter except that dual point > distys > have really long dwell so the coil gets well saturated. > > I haven't had much problem with my mallory capacitors, but it's probably > for > two reasons--I run straight battery so my system runs at lower voltage, > and I > have a ballast resistor permanently wired in place. > > The condensors have to handle about 400 volts, that's what the voltage may > climb to when the points open and the magnetic flux collapses. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Robert Lang > Sent: Thu 9/13/2007 12:51 PM > To: TeriAnn Wakeman > Cc: Friends of Triumph > Subject: Re: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems > > Hi, > > Last time I bought some of the Mallory 400 condensers, the packaging > listed the rating of the part, I think it's .28 microfarads. > > I know that NAPA has replacement condensors that look the same (same can, > same connector) but have a blue wire, not orange like the Mallory. The > NAPA part works, but I never stress tested to make sure that they work > exactly the same as the Mallory part. > > I think the alternate replacement part is for a Jeep, but I could be > wrong. It was def. a "drop-in" replacement. > > regards, > rml > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent > Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | > Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > jaboruch at netzero.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _____________________________________________________________ > Click here and get the professional resume help you need. > http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlRJjPdbA489riu5RA4sJjDxkd > M4A90Kb3VkzOOTCTEZ6AWW/ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 14 10:09:40 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:09:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems Message-ID: In a message dated 9/14/2007 12:04:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, S.Janzen at comcast.net writes: currently running with a Bosch Blue coil, no visible resistor anywhere. The blue is internally ballasted IIRC, you can check between the LT terminals, around 2-3 ohms... Glen not a tweet ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From RYoung at navcomtech.com Fri Sep 14 12:14:01 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 11:14:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser problems In-Reply-To: References: <46E94AC4.1040904@razzolink.com><002a01c7f61b$90786e30$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com><46E971B4.5000702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: > There's nothing magic about the Mallory condensors > (capacitors)--anything will > work just as well. FWIW, they don't even need to be inside the distributor. Some VWs have them mounted to the coil on the firewall, where I'll bet they last longer. Randall From joeg at neb.rr.com Fri Sep 14 23:06:12 2007 From: joeg at neb.rr.com (Joe Guinan) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 00:06:12 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Joe B III in "SportsCar" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000801c7f756$23758160$43a6544c@Guinan> I was just reading my October issue of the SCCA club magazine, and ran across an article about Joe Boruch III, progeny of our own Joe (B). It was a very complimentary article about a kid that seems to have his head screwed on right. As the father of an 18 year old, I know that's about the highest compliment you can pay to a parent. Congratulations Joe and Anne on raising a fine son. Joe Guinan Fremont, NE From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Sep 17 08:00:44 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:00:44 GMT Subject: [Fot] Joe B III in "SportsCar" Message-ID: <20070917.100044.11399.1@webmail18.dca.untd.com> Thanks Joe, your compliments are appreciated. He can be a handfull at times, since he is smarter than both of us combined. He does not know as much yet, so we are still a step ahead of him. He wants to fly and race (and the list goes on), so to do that he knows that he has to stay away from drugs and alcohol. Joe(B) -- "Joe Guinan" wrote: I was just reading my October issue of the SCCA club magazine, and ran across an article about Joe Boruch III, progeny of our own Joe (B). It was a very complimentary article about a kid that seems to have his head screwed on right. As the father of an 18 year old, I know that's about the highest compliment you can pay to a parent. Congratulations Joe and Anne on raising a fine son. Joe Guinan Fremont, NE jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Be your own boss today! Go to Technical School. Click here. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijngzTZEG1xkGl6yJ9hABq1Qx1r 2VWxgq8v6pDPDOoosC60vb/ From rikrock at aol.com Mon Sep 17 09:14:16 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:14:16 -0400 Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? Message-ID: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> British Parts Northwest is selling trimetal rod bearings they claim are made from the same materials as Vandervell VP2 bearings.? Has anyone seen or used these new beaings? Opinions, please. Thanks! Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From BillB at bnj.com Mon Sep 17 14:37:31 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:37:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? References: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of rikrock at aol.com Sent: Mon 9/17/2007 8:14 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? if anyone is doing oh they would they get a lot of stuff made and its generally good. I'll deck omit when I get home would be good news British Parts Northwest is selling trimetal rod bearings they claim are made from the same materials as Vandervell VP2 bearings.? Has anyone seen or used these new beaings? Opinions, please. Thank! Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Sep 17 17:59:52 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:59:52 -0800 Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? References: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003d01c7f986$d6f20e70$1a02a8c0@workstation3> I've been using these bearings for over a year and they hold up well. I'll be taking the engine apart this winter and I'll see how well they really have done. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:14 AM Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? > British Parts Northwest is selling trimetal rod bearings they claim are made from the same materials as Vandervell VP2 bearings.? Has anyone seen or used these new beaings? > > Opinions, please. > > Thanks! > > Rich Rock > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 13 12:40:09 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:40:09 EDT Subject: [Fot] VTR's TVT Magazine Message-ID: Got my issue today....one of the best. Thanks Mike Cook! Gary Horstkorta hit a home run with his article on his Competition TR4 and the use of Tony Viglioti's new Triumph Chassis. Congratulations to Bill Sohl....Honored Member of VTR. JA From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 17 17:02:49 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:02:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe From TR4racr at aol.com Mon Sep 17 17:10:27 2007 From: TR4racr at aol.com (TR4racr at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:10:27 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: I plan to attend the FOT at The Glen race in Sept 08, Thanks George Wright Mechanicsville,Va 1961 TR4 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 17 17:14:04 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:14:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] Road America Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival Message-ID: Alexander Racing became a member of the HOLE IN BLOCK GANG, in a spectacular way, coming into Corner Station Five. It was captured in it's entirety by an MG guy, who suffered the same fate the day before, and had his camera in the ready. Absolutely amazing cloud of oil, but no resulting fire. There are no longer any mosquitoes in that immediate vicintity. 2nd coming of the Exxon Valdez, methinks. My aopologies to the four racers behind me that did not complete the turn. I am pleased to say that there are no repairs to any cars needed, outside of my block. This block has been run in #197 since 1992. It deserves a rest. Great turnout by Triumphs. I'll leave it to others to spread the good news. It was a very good weekend. Joe Alexander Mark Alexander From sgroh1 at comcast.net Mon Sep 17 19:52:10 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (Steven Groh) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 21:52:10 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER References: Message-ID: <000d01c7f996$86ccfc60$6401a8c0@steven2sbouwlk> Me, too! Steve Groh SVRA #393 Spitfire E/P (This year's US Vintage Grand Prix was EXCELLENT!!!!!! Attending and driving Triumphs were: Bill Babcock Dick Stockton Henry Frye Cornell Babcock Randy Williams Bill Tobin Ed Ceilley Bill Shanahan Steve Groh ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Cc: ; Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER >I plan to attend the FOT at The Glen race in Sept 08, > Thanks > George Wright > Mechanicsville,Va > 1961 TR4 > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From greenman62 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 17 20:39:22 2007 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 02:39:22 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Road America Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >This block has been run in #197 since 1992. It deserves a rest. Hmmmm... it's probably sending out it's resume for a job as boat anchor... Saw yer smoke... Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Sep 17 20:42:41 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 02:42:41 GMT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: <20070917.224241.25591.0@webmail14.dca.untd.com> I plan to participate with my EP TR3. Jack Woerhle has given me an ok for this event. Joe(B) -- N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Online Stock Trading - Straightforward pricing. Powerful tools. Click here! http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijle4mmJsYXoiMzdKdMNGUtnfAF GlelE0joyTO3mPuOgTwUNS/ From DSPGTi at aol.com Mon Sep 17 20:59:10 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 22:59:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: My personal goal is to rebuild my 62 TR4 over the winter, test in the spring, get my SVRA license (or waiver) and be ready for "The Glen" in 08. Dave Yeager ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From mark at bradakis.com Mon Sep 17 21:01:28 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 21:01:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46EF3F88.5060402@bradakis.com> Maybe if I staqrt planning now I can fly out to spectate for the weekend. mjb. From triumphs at consolidated.net Mon Sep 17 22:26:05 2007 From: triumphs at consolidated.net (Ken Gano, home) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 23:26:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Have the dates been set? kg -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+triumphs=consolidated.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+triumphs=consolidated.net at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 6:03 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: JWoesvra at aol.com; Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe triumphs at consolidated.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Tue Sep 18 03:58:27 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 04:58:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? In-Reply-To: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <200709180958.l8I9wjw5008876@ns3.geneseo.net> I bought them and installed them. When I got them, I did not se evidence of the tri metal construction, and they were stamped "County" on the back. I asked BPNW about this, and they said that they were indeed different but with the current state of bearing company mergers, they were run through the same factory as the other County bearings. I should have scraped the edge to see what evidence I could find, but I did not do this. At 10:14 AM 9/17/2007, rikrock at aol.com wrote: >British Parts Northwest is selling trimetal rod bearings they claim >are made from the same materials as Vandervell VP2 bearings.? Has >anyone seen or used these new beaings? > >Opinions, please. > >Thanks! > >Rich Rock > >________________________________________________________________________ >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL >Mail! - http://mail.aol.com >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 05:57:56 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:57:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] Engine Failure #197 @ Road America Message-ID: Thanks for all of the replies and questions on the demise of the engine. Teardown should commence shortly. Cause is unknown at this point. Uncle Jack and I are going to perform an autopsy and will pass along any relevant information that may be of use to the FoT Wet Sleeve Crowd. There are two or more valves seized in the valve guides. One of them is at the #2 cylinder from the front. There are two pushrods that look like wine cork removers. One is at #2 cylinder. There is a hole in the block about the size of a child's fist. This is located at what appears to be the #2 connecting rod from the front. I draw no conclusions from this, but there seems to be a pattern. I recently acquired a 7 foot STAINLESS STEEL bench that looks suspiciously like an autopsy table. We will be putting it to good use. Joe (A) From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Sep 18 06:36:40 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:36:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070918123727.E8010187A16@autox.team.net> It's likely that Uncle Jack and Tony will attend. - Tony At 06:02 PM 9/17/2007, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: >FoT List: > >I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > >He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their >major event in September of next year. > >Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and >Running of the Original Street Course. > >Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our >Grand Marshall. > >The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car >for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > >We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack >Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > >It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an >indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > >Regards, > >Joe From jsnook at wcnet.org Tue Sep 18 07:27:56 2007 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:27:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER References: Message-ID: <012901c7f9f7$bed2c1b0$0301a8c0@JeffsNotebook> I plan on attending with my TR3A. Jeff Snook www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: JWoesvra at aol.com ; Jensen87 at aol.com Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 6:02 PM Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html jsnook_gmi at wcnet.org Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 18 08:29:56 2007 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Slightly OT: New clothing line Message-ID: <457598.47346.qm@web83102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Check out this link: http://www.autofieldguide.com/dp/auto/newsmonger.cfm?id=1539 Doug -- dmitchel at sbcglobal.net From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 18 08:35:43 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:35:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? References: <8C9C7548C3B6DE1-488-FEE@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: You probably all thought I was on drugs or something with the message below. Actually I was sending it on my iPhone without benefit of reading glasses. What I meants to say was: \If anyone is doing it they would. They get a lot of stuff made and it's generally good. I'll check it out when I get home. It would be good news. I am, byt the way, back home in Portland. The house seems daunting after four months living in half a trailer. My office is a mess and so is my shop. I'll have to clean for days before I can even start on Peyote. Oh well. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Bill Babcock Sent: Mon 9/17/2007 1:37 PM To: rikrock at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of rikrock at aol.com Sent: Mon 9/17/2007 8:14 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] BPNW TriMetal Rod Bearings? if anyone is doing oh they would they get a lot of stuff made and its generally good. I'll deck omit when I get home would be good news British Parts Northwest is selling trimetal rod bearings they claim are made from the same materials as Vandervell VP2 bearings.? Has anyone seen or used these new beaings? Opinions, please. Thank! Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fo From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 18 08:40:06 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:40:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER References: Message-ID: Maybe I need to start talking with Tony Garmey and Bill Hart. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Mon 9/17/2007 4:02 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: JWoesvra at aol.com; Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 18 09:21:01 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:21:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: In a message dated 09/18/2007 9:48:27 AM Central Daylight Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: > Maybe I need to start talking with Tony Garmey and Bill Hart. > And Bill Warner on the other coast. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 18 09:36:51 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:36:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: September 18, 2007 11:21 AM To: BillB at bnj.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; fot at autox.team.net Cc: JWoesvra at aol.com; Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In a message dated 09/18/2007 9:48:27 AM Central Daylight Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: > Maybe I need to start talking with Tony Garmey and Bill Hart. > And Bill Warner on the other coast. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com macdonaldp at rogers.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 18 09:51:46 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:51:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From John.Reed at wilson.com Tue Sep 18 10:10:14 2007 From: John.Reed at wilson.com (John.Reed at wilson.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:10:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What a cool car!! Regards, John Reed Staff Photographer Wilson Sporting Goods Co. 8750 W Bryn Mawr Ave, Chicago, Illinois 60631, USA Tel. + 1.773.714.6895, fax +1.773.714.4585 John.Reed at wilson.com www.wilson.com www.amersports.com Please note that effective immediately, my e-mail , phone number and street address have changed. Please update your files accordingly. "Paul MacDonald" Sent by: fot-bounces+jreed=wilson.com at autox.team.net 09/18/07 08:51 AM To cc Subject Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot jreed at wilson.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. From S.Janzen at comcast.net Tue Sep 18 11:35:23 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:35:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER References: Message-ID: <004101c7fa1a$4bcbce50$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Interesting to see what a good looking car the TR7 could have been . . . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul MacDonald" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. > > > http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php > > Paul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of > Paul MacDonald > Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > > > The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as > well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. > > http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html > > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 18 11:47:14 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:47:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER References: Message-ID: Yikes, who owns that? I wonder if it's for sale? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Paul MacDonald Sent: Tue 9/18/2007 8:51 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From deanesr at uncw.edu Tue Sep 18 12:25:34 2007 From: deanesr at uncw.edu (Deanes, Robert) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:25:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: <004101c7fa1a$4bcbce50$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: <46F56ACD52BC5F4F911EF9C4264FB4640CF74690@UNCWMAILVS1.dcs.uncw.edu> Glad to see there is going to be a big turn out of TR's at Watkins Glen, never been there myself but will bring my TR-4 up for this event, sounds like it will be "TR County". From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 18 12:59:41 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <584812.53566.qm@web57611.mail.re1.yahoo.com> While it would be really nice to see this Le Mans TR; it would also be nice to see any Wedge racer able to pass tech inspection on the track. This would be for us younger FoT members of course. Paul MacDonald wrote: Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 18 13:22:29 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:22:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: RE: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBERBert Smeets just bought it a couple of years ago and tried to get it ready for LeMans vintage 2007 race, but that didn't happen as far as I know. The following link gives a bit of background on him. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/classifieds.php Bert owns several factory built vintage TR7V8 rally cars and enters rallies regularly competing against modern machinery...and doing well too! The Le Mans car was written up recently in Classics Monthly magazine. Car has been completely stripped, with rebuilt power train including having the twin turbo engine rebuilt by John Eales. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock [mailto:BillB at bnj.com] Sent: September 18, 2007 1:47 PM To: Paul MacDonald; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Yikes, who owns that? I wonder if it's for sale? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Paul MacDonald Sent: Tue 9/18/2007 8:51 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Sure would be nice to get the Le Mans TR8 over as well. http://www.tr7smeets.centerall.com/page267_4.php Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: September 18, 2007 11:37 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER The owner of the Canadian Group 44 type TR8 (#42) will likely attend as well, for a rematch of races with #44 back in the day. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Mosport-1980-08-17-photo.html Paul -----Original Message----- http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rikrock at aol.com Tue Sep 18 14:15:01 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:15:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: <46F56ACD52BC5F4F911EF9C4264FB4640CF74690@UNCWMAILVS1.dcs.uncw.edu> Message-ID: <8C9C847BA489F37-774-6CC2@MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com> This is good news! The (Bob Stadel) Ambro will be there. Was a decision ever made on the offer from the Beaver Run/PVGP folks to feature Triumph at the July event? Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 14:57:48 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:57:48 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: Rich, Stadel Appearance: This is very good. I hope to have an Ambro there, but I will call that a 50/50 chance at this point. No final conclusion has been reached on Beaver/Run. But the response was dismal, especially when compared to Watkins Glen. I need to get back to Beaver/Run, unless someone else would like to promote this event. BTW, I would like to see other FoT organizing a 'focus' event in their areas or favorite venues. There are 12 months in the year and North America is a big place. Joe (A) > This is good news! The (Bob Stadel) Ambro will be there. > Was a decision ever made on the offer from the Beaver Run/PVGP folks to > feature Triumph at the July event? > > > Rich Rock > From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 15:03:15 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:03:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] Bill Warner to bring both of his Triumphs......to Watkins Glen Message-ID: FoT!!! Another Bell Ringer...I just got off the 'phone' with Carl Jensen. Carl says, "I spoke with Bill Warner and he will bring both of his cars. CJ" It hasnt even been 24 hours yet, and the response has been quite impressive. Joe (A) From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 16:59:10 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 18:59:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: FoT, I am looking for a host hotel. I have stayed in Corning, NY with good success with good rooms at good rates. I have one in mind. Does anyone else have an inside track on this? A favorite Hotel? I have negotiated special rates before. I will try again. Joe Alexander From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 18 17:44:08 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:44:08 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 References: Message-ID: There's only two great choices--the Seneca Lodge and the hotel that Ed and Bruce stay at--chime in here guys. I bet if we committed early we could get most of the Seneca Lodge. Great bar. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Tue 9/18/2007 3:59 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 FoT, I am looking for a host hotel. I have stayed in Corning, NY with good success with good rooms at good rates. I have one in mind. Does anyone else have an inside track on this? A favorite Hotel? I have negotiated special rates before. I will try again. Joe Alexander billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 18 17:58:23 2007 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <27206.49261.qm@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Count me and my TR4 in...............................I said the same about Utah and look what happened. Dennis DeLap N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT List: I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their major event in September of next year. Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and Running of the Original Street Course. Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our Grand Marshall. The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack Woerhle and Carl Jensen. It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an indication of the strength of our presence at this event. Regards, Joe yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From JWoesvra at aol.com Tue Sep 18 18:33:10 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:33:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 9/18/2007 7:47:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: There's only two great choices--the Seneca Lodge and the hotel that Ed and Bruce stay at--chime in here guys. I bet if we committed early we could get most of the Seneca Lodge. Great bar. Yeah, the week after holloween! The Seneca is booked by most folks on a yearly basis. You might get a room or two if someone cancels at the last minute. It won't hurt to check however. They could build a new wing. Contact the CofC soon and you might find another place in town. There will be places, but you MUST book soon. Jack Woehrle ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From brad.kahler at 141.com Tue Sep 18 19:07:45 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:07:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46F07661.6020204@141.com> Susan and Brad will likely be there provided work doesn't interfere and there is enough vacation time available. Brad N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT List: > > I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > > He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of their > major event in September of next year. > > Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and > Running of the Original Street Course. > > Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and our > Grand Marshall. > > The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace Car > for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > > We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to Jack > Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > > It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an > indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > > Regards, > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > brad.kahler at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 19:16:17 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:16:17 EDT Subject: [Fot] Platform for AMBRO Build Message-ID: There is a TR3A rolling chassis for sale on eBay. Totally restored and in Mansfield, Ohio. From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 18 19:24:51 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:24:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: Understanding what Jack has to say,I am looking outside of Watkins Glen for convenience and price. But if someone has a better inside track, go for it. I have stayed in or near Corning a few times with fair convenience and under $100. Joe A > Yeah, the week after holloween! > > The Seneca is booked by most folks on a yearly basis. You might get a room > or two if someone cancels at the last minute. It won't hurt to check however. > They could build a new wing. > > Contact the CofC soon and you might find another place in town. > > There will be places, but you MUST book soon. > > Jack Woehrle > From westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net Tue Sep 18 21:17:01 2007 From: westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net (westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 03:17:01 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: <091920070317.16871.46F094AC000B5FE7000041E72160375964990E04D2069D@att.net> Seneca has the history. My first Glen was in 1965. I didn't have the money to stay there (college student and slept in my TR-3) but it is where the F-1 drives stayed. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from "Bill Babcock" : -------------- > There's only two great choices--the Seneca Lodge and the hotel that Ed and > Bruce stay at--chime in here guys. > > I bet if we committed early we could get most of the Seneca Lodge. Great bar. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of N197TR4 at cs.com > Sent: Tue 9/18/2007 3:59 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 > > FoT, I am looking for a host hotel. I have stayed in Corning, NY with good > success with good rooms at good rates. > > I have one in mind. > > Does anyone else have an inside track on this? > > A favorite Hotel? > > I have negotiated special rates before. I will try again. > > Joe Alexander > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > westerneagleracing at att.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 19 07:30:43 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:30:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Watkins_Glen=A0=A0_Host_Hotel=3F=A0=A0_2008?= Message-ID: Okay, I guessed I have missed something, Am I to assume from this communication that the official FOT meet is at SVRA Watkins Glen in Sept? If so, can someone send me an official release to publish? To keep up with the Jones and the Warners does this mean I need to get the 69 Championship Group 44 GT6 done by then? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillDentin at aol.com Wed Sep 19 07:41:00 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:41:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 09/18/2007 10:17:26 PM Central Daylight Time, westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net writes: > Seneca has the history. My first Glen was in 1965. I didn't have the > money to stay there (college student and slept in my TR-3) but it is where the > F-1 drives stayed. > Amici... While I agree 100%, that any trip to WATKINS GLEN that did not include a stop at the Seneca Lodge would be a mistake, I see no chance to making it an FOT Headquarters. That because, as Jack says, it is booked nearly 100% on a year to year basis. I'll also suggest that while you can't beat the history involved, its rooms are somewhat 'primitive.' If you can't get in, no big loss. BUT for sure, plan to have dinner there (great steak house), and the bar is a trip to road racing's past (also big for 'bow hunters'). The Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team has been racing the GLEN for nearly twenty years, and we have always stayed at the Marshall Manor Best Western in Horseheads, New York. Originally recommended by John Harkness, we are already booked for next year. About 25 minutes from the track, but we like it. There is a restaurant adjacent called the Hickory House. Looks like no more than an expanded tavern, but the wife is Chinese and the husband is Italian. Their menu features both cultures. Great food at tavern prices. The Crab Rangoo rivals anything you'll get in San Francisco. I agree one should be thinking about booking early, but in fact there are plenty of hotels in the area. Most are 20-30 minutes from the track. Prices will reflect the importance of that Zippo vintage week end. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From kaskas at cox.net Wed Sep 19 07:58:20 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 06:58:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 References: Message-ID: <003b01c7fac5$230a3000$5717c548@RW> I've stayed in the Best Western in Horseheads and it was just fine. There is a little known back road to get around all the traffic coming to the track. I've stayed in Corning several times, easy traffic and nice places to eat etc. I stayed a the Seneca lodge several times and thought the rooms were like sleeping in a tent that was set on on the side of a hill but without the natural drainage. ( not me, thank you). The bar and the food is great though..----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 6:41 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 > In a message dated 09/18/2007 10:17:26 PM Central Daylight Time, > westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net writes: > > >> Seneca has the history. My first Glen was in 1965. I didn't have the >> money to stay there (college student and slept in my TR-3) but it is >> where the >> F-1 drives stayed. >> > > Amici... > > While I agree 100%, that any trip to WATKINS GLEN that did not include a > stop > at the Seneca Lodge would be a mistake, I see no chance to making it an > FOT > Headquarters. That because, as Jack says, it is booked nearly 100% on a > year > to year basis. I'll also suggest that while you can't beat the history > involved, its rooms are somewhat 'primitive.' If you can't get in, no big > loss. BUT > for sure, plan to have dinner there (great steak house), and the bar is a > trip to road racing's past (also big for 'bow hunters'). > > The Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team has been racing the GLEN for > nearly > twenty years, and we have always stayed at the Marshall Manor Best Western > in > Horseheads, New York. Originally recommended by John Harkness, we are > already booked for next year. About 25 minutes from the track, but we > like it. > There is a restaurant adjacent called the Hickory House. Looks like no > more than > an expanded tavern, but the wife is Chinese and the husband is Italian. > Their menu features both cultures. Great food at tavern prices. The Crab > Rangoo > rivals anything you'll get in San Francisco. > > I agree one should be thinking about booking early, but in fact there are > plenty of hotels in the area. Most are 20-30 minutes from the track. > Prices > will reflect the importance of that Zippo vintage week end. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 19 08:12:41 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:12:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Watkins_Glen=A0=A0_Host_Hotel=3F=A0=A0_2008?= Message-ID: Tim! Good to hear from you! Yes! This is the 2008 Kastner Cup Event Yes! We should do a release...I suspect that this should come from SVRA. The first 24 hours of responses has been impressive. I think we have at least one Brit coming. Perhaps we should foster the idea of more of them coming, as we did at Mid_Ohio and VIR....... You need to get the Group 44 GT6 ready, anyway. This is a good reason. Joe (A) > Okay, I guessed I have missed something, Am I to assume from this > communication that the official FOT meet is at SVRA Watkins Glen in Sept? If so, can > someone send me an official release to publish? > > To keep up with the Jones and the Warners does this mean I need to get the > 69 Championship Group 44 GT6 done by then? > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 19 13:01:36 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:01:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] [Vintage-race] Steve Prewitt passes Message-ID: > Thanks for forwarding to the list. What car(s) did Steve race? > > Bill Carroll > I remember him racing a Corvette....very well and very fast. Joe Alexander From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 19 13:13:25 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:13:25 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen 2008 THE KASTNER CUP progress report Message-ID: Just a little summary: Of course, the Triumphs will have their own stand alone race as we have in the past. There will be a concession on the entry fee for the Triumphs, with a stipulation of early entry. So there: The track time will be up and the cost will be down. I have had one offer of a sponsorship, and there are likely other folks out there that may want to participate. Those monies are solely for our use......! I need to examine the opportunities further so that 'sponsors' get exposure in press releases, track programs, driver packets, etc. I could use some help. More details will be be forthcoming.... Joe Alexander From rikrock at aol.com Wed Sep 19 14:50:44 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:50:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9C915E225278E-B74-341C@webmail-da05.sysops.aol.com> The Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team has been racing the GLEN for nearly twenty years, and we have always stayed at the Marshall Manor Best Western in Horseheads, New York. Originally recommended by John Harkness, we are already booked for next year. About 25 minutes from the track, but we like it. Every time I drive past that place I tell myself I should look into staying there.? Easy and relatively short?drive to the track from Horseheads.? There are other "chains" in that area, too. Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Sep 19 15:21:33 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:21:33 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Map Quest says it's 1891miles from Albuquerque to Watkins Glen. I say "Hey Chuck, are you and that nice, big, trailer of yours going to be passing thru my neck of the woods?" On the other hand, IF I have my 2 car hauler roadworthy by then, [good incentive] is there anyone else from the SW that might want to share expenses to get their car there? Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 # 314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 17, 2007, at 5:02 PM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT List: > > I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > > He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part > of their > major event in September of next year. > > Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen > and > Running of the Original Street Course. > > Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT > and our > Grand Marshall. > > The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary > Pace Car > for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > > We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks > to Jack > Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > > It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an > indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > > Regards, > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > lunkercars at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From ejmajor250 at comcast.net Wed Sep 19 15:49:41 2007 From: ejmajor250 at comcast.net (Ed Major) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:49:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 References: Message-ID: <005801c7fb06$fbfa5110$6601a8c0@LoriMajor> The Montour Falls Motel is the other one, but people book that 100% from year to year (grandfather rule!) just like the Lodge. Ed Major '58 TR3, '68 TR250 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 > In a message dated 9/18/2007 7:47:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > BillB at bnj.com writes: > > There's only two great choices--the Seneca Lodge and the hotel that Ed > and > Bruce stay at--chime in here guys. > > I bet if we committed early we could get most of the Seneca Lodge. Great > bar. > > > Yeah, the week after holloween! > > The Seneca is booked by most folks on a yearly basis. You might get a room > or two if someone cancels at the last minute. It won't hurt to check > however. > They could build a new wing. > > Contact the CofC soon and you might find another place in town. > > There will be places, but you MUST book soon. > > Jack Woehrle > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > ejmajor250 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Sep 19 17:43:42 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:43:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: Allen Washatko > Date: September 19, 2007 6:43:01 PM CDT > To: N197TR4 at cs.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > > Joe, > > Watkins Glenn has been on my goal list for a long time. Count me in. > I'll just need to figure out a way to get the car there. > > Allen > > On Sep 17, 2007, at 6:02 PM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > >> FoT List: >> >> I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. >> >> He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of >> their >> major event in September of next year. >> >> Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen >> and >> Running of the Original Street Course. >> >> Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT >> and our >> Grand Marshall. >> >> The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary >> Pace Car >> for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) >> >> We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks >> to Jack >> Woerhle and Carl Jensen. >> >> It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an >> indication of the strength of our presence at this event. >> >> Regards, >> >> Joe >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> awashatko at wi.rr.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From trmarty at hotmail.com Wed Sep 19 19:12:01 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:12:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Competition brake pads for spitfire Message-ID: Ok you spitfire guru's out there. what do you folks recommend for pad and shoe compounds for a mid pack level prepared Spitfire road race car? I like the Hawk HP+ for autoxing my TR6 but don't know if they would be the best choice for a Spitfire road racer. Thanks, Marty Sukey _________________________________________________________________ Capture your memories in an online journal! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From jaboruch at netzero.net Wed Sep 19 20:02:28 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 02:02:28 GMT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 Message-ID: <20070919.220228.19481.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> When at the Glen I have usually stayed at the Hilton Garden Inn in Horseheads, near the mall, or the Hampton Inn in Corning. There are back roads to the track, so these are also about 20-25 minutes from the track. Joe(B) -- rikrock at aol.com wrote: The Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team has been racing the GLEN for nearly twenty years, and we have always stayed at the Marshall Manor Best Western in Horseheads, New York. Originally recommended by John Harkness, we are already booked for next year. About 25 minutes from the track, but we like it. Every time I drive past that place I tell myself I should look into staying there.? Easy and relatively short?drive to the track from Horseheads.? There are other "chains" in that area, too. Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click here to find singles for dating, romance and fun. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijm1iNXfbWNkB4jqJ2WAIryscXx Qdv5OYhfeaUAICoDfXEgxt/ From greenman62 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 19 10:40:03 2007 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:40:03 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Steve Prewitt passes Message-ID: I just received this obit from Pam at Victory Lane... Steven R. Prewitt Obituary Steve Prewitt moved to San Diego in 1998 after spending two years deciding on the best place to live. The choice was made from the heart. He loved the town, the weather, but most of all, the people. One of San Diegos unique attributes is that it instills in people a vacation mentality that supports overall happiness. Moving here at age 55 it might have been difficult to make new friends, but not in San Diego! He would tell you that the richness of his new friendships were the biggest blessing of the move. Steve was born on December 1, 1943 in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. His parents Robert and Evelyn moved to Des Moines where he attended Roosevelt High School. He attended Simpson College for two years, and then graduated in Business Administration from the University of Missouri in Columbia. Until his move to San Diego, Steve was owner and CEO of The Prewitt Company, a food sales and marketing company with the home office in Des Moines and satellite offices in Omaha and the Quad Cities. In Des Moines he also served on the board of directors for First Interstate Bank, the Riverfront YMCA, and Planned Parenthood. In San Diego, he served on the board of the San Diego Air and Space Museum. Steve knew any prior accomplishments were dwarfed by comparison when in 2007 his skull base disease gave him the rare opportunity to help give birth to an entity that will help millions of people into the future. With Steve as the founding president, four other highly skilled people came together to form the Steven Prewitt Skull Base Disease Foundation. Recognizing the dramatic need for an interdisciplinary information repository to advance the education, treatment and cure of skull base diseases, these five professional people committed to make this foundation their highest priority. It was with this passion and sustaining commitment that the foundation evolved and will continue to serve as the best one stop shopping for patients and physicians alike. You are encouraged to visit the foundations website at www.spsbdf.org. His passions fell into three categories. First, were his true friends. He drew no distinction between a blood relative and these special friends. He loved them equally. Of all his life assets, these friends were the most important. He gave thanks everyday that these special people were put in his lifes path. Each contributed greatly to the person he became. Second, until he began to experience health issues in 2004, athleticism was important his entire life for two reasons: 1). Stay in excellent condition. 2). Meet new friends through multiple sports at various gyms through the years. His health began to decline when he failed to realize the importance of the body/mind connection. If you are reading this, he would want you to learn the lesson of de-stressing your life. Regular workouts with a reasonable diet are truly only half the battle. Please understand that stress alone can kill you and only too late did he learn the inner serenity of giving your worries up to a higher power. In 2004 as he battled his first episode of Stage 4 cancer, he learned that lesson through the joy of finding the Pacific Beach United Methodist Church. Third was his passion for driving, collecting, or racing cars. He did all three with great enthusiasm. Yet, consistent with category #1, he would tell you that although we love our cars, they dont love us back. The true gift of the hobby is the opportunity to meet new, eclectic, and interesting friends. The hobby again spawned many of those friends for which he was deeply grateful. His sister, Patricia Ann Johnson, preceded him in 1969. He has two nieces from his sister, Holly Johnson from Denver and Cynthia Fischer from Hamilton, MT. As a father, his daughter Kelsey Prewitt from San Diego has always been the love of his life. His sweetheart, love, and constant companion over the last six-years was Bobbi Bennett. The family plans a private memorial service including cremation with scattering of ashes. In lieu of flowers, Steve asks two things: 1). Donate generously to the charity of your choice. 2). Take your best friends to lunch regularly and tell them that you love them. If they are out of town, call regularly and do the same thing. Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From sgroh1 at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 07:56:50 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (sgroh1 at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:56:50 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Competition brake pads for spitfire Message-ID: <092020071356.16429.46F27C22000368F20000402D2200735446CE08019D099C@comcast.net> I have Metalmaster pads on my SVRA E/P 1275 Spit, which are proving to be quite consistent, and long-lasting. However at the Glen last weekend, I talked to another Spit owner who highly endorses Hawk Blue pads, so I am going to get a set for next year and do a comparison. Steve Groh -------------- Original message -------------- From: marty sukey > Ok you spitfire guru's out there. what do you folks recommend for pad and shoe > compounds for a mid pack level prepared Spitfire road race car? I like the > Hawk HP+ for autoxing my TR6 but don't know if they would be the best choice > for a Spitfire road racer. > > Thanks, > Marty Sukey > > _________________________________________________________________ > Capture your memories in an online journal! > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 18 20:36:18 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 22:36:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60DB10D4-715C-4EB1-AE5D-31DDED3CB22D@bnj.com> Corning isn't all that close. There's a lot going on downtown during the vintage festival. Maybe I will bring the Airstream just to have a place to stay. I'll need to start working on Diane for this one. Targa Newfoundland has always appealed to me too. Especially since the Babcock since of the family is all from some dinky town in Newfoundland where everyone looks like me. Scary. From what I hear the gene poll is about a quarter inch deep. Bill Babcock billb at bnj.com bnj Website for Babcock & Jenkins, a direct and interactive agency You can subscribe to my Blogs Via email: All Aluminum Tour: Touring and racing classic North American tracks. http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=168395 Ponohouse : Living and playing in Maui. http://www.feedblitz.com/f/? Sub=168304 or Via RSS Ponohouse: http://feeds.feedburner.com/PonoHouse AllAluminumTour: http://feeds.feedburner.com/AllAluminumTour On Sep 18, 2007, at 9:24 PM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > Understanding what Jack has to say,I am looking outside of Watkins > Glen for convenience and price. > > But if someone has a better inside track, go for it. > > I have stayed in or near Corning a few times with fair convenience > and under $100. > > Joe A > > >> Yeah, the week after holloween! >> >> The Seneca is booked by most folks on a yearly basis. You might >> get a room or two if someone cancels at the last minute. It won't >> hurt to check however. They could build a new wing. >> >> Contact the CofC soon and you might find another place in town. >> >> There will be places, but you MUST book soon. >> >> Jack Woehrle From vinnyde at verizon.net Thu Sep 20 10:08:46 2007 From: vinnyde at verizon.net (Vincent De Palma) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:08:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Competition brake pads for spitfire Message-ID: <002401c7fba0$86f34ee0$2f01a8c0@userv8vydxzaql> I ran the Blue Hawk pads for several seasons and loved them. They just seem to stop quicker. My Spitfire was a mid-packer as well, but that's more the driver than the car. I was seeing some rotor wear on aftermarket rotors (Victoria British) but when I replaced them with some used Standard rotors the wear seemed to lessen quite a bit. Paul Smock says the Brits had superior iron!?? From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 20 10:13:08 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:13:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] official dates for SVRA'S WATKINS GLEN -SEPT 4-7 2008 Message-ID: Well, it is now official. Carl Jensen has spoken. The Watkins Glen Zippo Grand Prix featuring the FOT and the Kastner Cup September 4 through 7 of 2008 Thanks for asking. I would have guessed wrong. I have 28 Triumphs on the preliminary list and getting ready to invite the Brits. Joe (A) From billsohl at optonline.net Thu Sep 20 10:37:27 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:37:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - where to stay? - 2008 In-Reply-To: <091920070317.16871.46F094AC000B5FE7000041E72160375964990E04D2069D@att.net> References: <091920070317.16871.46F094AC000B5FE7000041E72160375964990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: <499BAEA8A870467BA3A0CD43E2DFC5EF@SohlPC> Here's another option for some folks... We have a travel trailer and have stayed each year at the KOA campgrounds which is only 3 miles from the track. I know other vintage racers have also stayed there. Cheers, Looking forward to a great event. Willing to help if needed in any planning, etc. Bill Sohl From BillB at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 11:02:42 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:02:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - where to stay? - 2008 In-Reply-To: <499BAEA8A870467BA3A0CD43E2DFC5EF@SohlPC> References: <091920070317.16871.46F094AC000B5FE7000041E72160375964990E04D2069D@att.net> <499BAEA8A870467BA3A0CD43E2DFC5EF@SohlPC> Message-ID: <6E9F7DDB-0952-4EA1-B61D-EF24CC054CB5@bnj.com> Of course there is also camping at the track, both some water/ electricity only sites at the far end of the paddock, some reserved camping-only sites (no race support RV's allowed) in the paddock, and a lot of reserved and unreserved camping everywhere outside the paddock and infield. It would be fairly easy to set up two Triumph ghettos -- one in the camping areas for those not using an RV for race car support and one in the paddock where Randy, Henry Frye, Steve Groh and I paddocked this year. Lots of fun after the official festivities. We were a bit more subdued this year both because of fairly frantic work on the cars, and also by the rain, but joint cookouts, movie nights, and convivial consumption of adult beverages sound like a necessity for such an august gathering. My paddock arrangements will be driven by how I get Peyote to the race. But I can always bring a tent if I don't bring Nero. On Sep 20, 2007, at 12:37 PM, Bill Sohl wrote: > Here's another option for some folks... > > We have a travel trailer and have stayed each year at the > KOA campgrounds which is only 3 miles from the track. > > I know other vintage racers have also stayed there. > > Cheers, > Looking forward to a great event. Willing to help if needed in any > planning, etc. > > Bill Sohl From Labs0808 at aol.com Thu Sep 20 12:04:01 2007 From: Labs0808 at aol.com (Labs0808 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:04:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Re watkins Glen Message-ID: I understand that arrangements can be made for trailers to be brought to the track by a local vender. These would be fifth wheel type full blown camping trailers, they would be less expensive and far safer then driving back into Corning each night ( lots of deer ) and of course if by chance beverages were consumed far safer. If anybody is interested I can do some homework for the group. I have stayed at the lodge for the past three years and can assure you are not missing anything from a lodging standpoint. The only thing that was lacking at the track was shower facilities and those were added a couple years ago for 75 cents a time. We will be there and try to bring the Ambro unless of course it finds a new home before then. Doug ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 20 12:46:58 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Re watkins Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <418824.74870.qm@web57602.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Doug: I like the idea. I for one would give up the chance to stock the freezer with deer meat for not driving an hour each day. E. Labs0808 at aol.com wrote: I understand that arrangements can be made for trailers to be brought to the track by a local vender. These would be fifth wheel type full blown camping trailers, they would be less expensive and far safer then driving back into Corning each night ( lots of deer ) and of course if by chance beverages were consumed far safer. If anybody is interested I can do some homework for the group. I have stayed at the lodge for the past three years and can assure you are not missing anything from a lodging standpoint. The only thing that was lacking at the track was shower facilities and those were added a couple years ago for 75 cents a time. We will be there and try to bring the Ambro unless of course it finds a new home before then. Doug ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! From tsheach at pba.co.uk Thu Sep 20 13:37:28 2007 From: tsheach at pba.co.uk (tr4.tony@virgin.net) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:37:28 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Re watkins Glen Message-ID: Doug I'm busy looking for a passout for the week to make the quick hope from sunny Scotland by the sea. A big trailer on site by FoT land would be good for me if its not going to kill me next time I owe the tyre guy money. Its unlikely that ill bring bst82B to compete but may bring willing crew to split the cost .... Spanners ready. Can you let me know what can be done ? I'm hoping that Joe A or Kas will sponsor me through your security ..... You're Plods don't like the kilt and the Connery aaccent only works on girls ... Regards Tony -----Original Message----- From: Labs0808 at aol.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: 20/09/07 19:04 Subject: [Fot] Re watkins Glen I understand that arrangements can be made for trailers to be brought to the track by a local vender. These would be fifth wheel type full blown camping trailers, they would be less expensive and far safer then driving back into Corning each night ( lots of deer ) and of course if by chance beverages were consumed far safer. If anybody is interested I can do some homework for the group. I have stayed at the lodge for the past three years and can assure you are not missing anything from a lodging standpoint. The only thing that was lacking at the track was shower facilities and those were added a couple years ago for 75 cents a time. We will be there and try to bring the Ambro unless of course it finds a new home before then. Doug ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com tr4.tony at virgin.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 14:02:58 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:02:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Re watkins Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As a regular user of the track showers at the Glen, I think that's something we shouldn't be telling a lot of people. They are currently uncrowded and you can get a nice hot shower, but there's only FOUR for the entire track. They have coin boxes, but the boxes don't seem to work--I discovered you can shower for free. Now I can afford that operation. Hey, Doug, how can I get a copy of your video of the race, including the shunt. It would make a fine addition to my blog and Peyote's history. If you want to mail a DVD my address is 4888 NW Bethany PMB 377 Portland, OR 97229 Or we could go all high tech and you could upload it to my web server, but that might take a bit of coordination. I'd like whatever native resolution you have. Bill On Sep 20, 2007, at 2:04 PM, Labs0808 at aol.com wrote: > I understand that arrangements can be made for trailers to be > brought to the > track by a local vender. > These would be fifth wheel type full blown camping trailers, they > would be > less expensive and far safer then driving back into Corning each > night ( lots > of deer ) and of course if by chance beverages were consumed far > safer. > If anybody is interested I can do some homework for the group. > I have stayed at the lodge for the past three years and can assure > you are > not missing anything from a lodging standpoint. The only thing > that was > lacking at the track was shower facilities and those were added a > couple years ago > for 75 cents a time. > We will be there and try to bring the Ambro unless of course it > finds a > new home before then. > Doug > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http:// > www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triumphs at consolidated.net Thu Sep 20 16:50:27 2007 From: triumphs at consolidated.net (Ken Gano, home) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:50:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] test Message-ID: Sorry for the wasted bandwidth. kg From vintage.racer at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 16:52:38 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:52:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? Message-ID: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware of the current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below will take you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. Gary 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" 69 TR6 http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no92. html From tlizzard at msn.com Thu Sep 20 17:07:49 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:07:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: It's all about the money. That said I still very much enjoy F1. It is an astonishing technical exercise. Very much like building high performance military aircraft. Amazing what the human mind can come up with when given a really restrictive set of parameters, and enough cash... It may be boring to many Americans to watch an F1 race, but not to me. 18,000+rpm is music to my ears. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:52 PM Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? Hello: If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware of the current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below will take you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. Gary 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" 69 TR6 http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no9 2. html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 20 17:20:56 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:20:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: <20070920232509.RDQD21920.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> I liked how rose-tinted his glasses appear to be. Talking about "His squeeze job on teammate Lewis Hamilton exiting the first turn at Spa last weekend clearly demonstrated his ill-will toward Hamilton as well as a lack of any on-track ethics." like it was some new phenomenon while completely ignoring history like Senna crashing into Prost when both were at McLaren to ensure that Senna took the Championship. Seems to me McLaren brings this type of problem on themselves by NOT having a driver running as its designated #1. As to the $100 mil fine. Again McLaren brought it on themselves. If they have been honest about the issue in June they would certainly have been fined and seen some points taken away. But as in most things it is not the initial crime that carried the real penalty but the cover up. Ron and Company made the FIA look like fools for not hitting them with any sanction after the first go round. When the additional info came out that even the drivers were discussing the stolen material in emails the FIA seems to have decided to slap McLaren hard enough that it got their attention. Bernie is right in that the $100 mil fine was good publicity for F1. I have friends that were astounded by the dollar number and these are people that have barely heard of F1 but know that I watch the races (I even subscribe to F1 Magazine) and they were asking me all kinds of questions this past week. At 03:52 PM 9/20/2007, you wrote: >Hello: > >If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware of the >current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below will take >you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. > >Gary >62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" >69 TR6 > >http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no92. >html >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >dave at microworks.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 20 17:26:40 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:26:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: <000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> I guess that everyone is entitled to his opinion. Personally, I am pleased with the penalties that were levied. The only thing that I didn't particularly like was that the drivers points were unaffected. What I heard is that the drivers were guaranteed to keep their points in order to get them to cooperate with the investigation. But I wonder how this episode has left Alonzo in the eyes of McLaren. My guess is that he will be wearing different livery next year. I guess it all could be compared with employment in industries that have trade secret information at stake. Employees typically sign non-disclosure agreements and their contracts are always laced with clauses stipulating that they are prohibited from working for any competitor for at least a couple of years after leaving their current employer. Surely, these teams have similar commitments involved in their hiring practices. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:53 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? Hello: If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware of the current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below will take you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. Gary 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" 69 TR6 http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no92 . html spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 20 17:41:18 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:41:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - where to stay? - 2008 Message-ID: The KOA also has Kamping Kabins...I did that once and liked it, OK. Joe (A) > Here's another option for some folks... > > We have a travel trailer and have stayed each year at the > KOA campgrounds which is only 3 miles from the track. > > I know other vintage racers have also stayed there. > > Cheers, > Looking forward to a great event. Willing to help if needed in any > planning, etc. > > Bill Sohl > _______________________________________________ > From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 20 17:50:12 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:50:12 EDT Subject: [Fot] TRIUMPHEST Message-ID: FoT, Anyone going to the Triumphest in Laughlin in October? A couple of us are going to be there and then going to VARA Race in Las Vegas. Joe (A) From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 20 17:53:26 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:53:26 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TRIUMPHEST In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000501c7fbe1$7035dce0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> There will be a couple of us there! Joe C -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:50 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TRIUMPHEST FoT, Anyone going to the Triumphest in Laughlin in October? A couple of us are going to be there and then going to VARA Race in Las Vegas. Joe (A) spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 20 17:48:00 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:48:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> <000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20070920235816.NJUU5014.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> >But I wonder how this episode has left Alonzo in the eyes of McLaren. My >guess is that he will be wearing different livery next year. It appears that it may have been Alonso that let slip the info about the emails. According to Ron Dennis he and Alonso are not even speaking http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40753 "Ron Dennis confirmed in last Thursday's FIA World Motor Sport Council hearing that he is not on speaking terms with his world champion driver Fernando Alonso..." From kaskas at cox.net Thu Sep 20 18:14:10 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:14:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> <20070920232509.RDQD21920.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: <008b01c7fbe4$5536f9d0$5717c548@RW> Yes, the squeeze was pretty evident to everyone, but no different that many of "Shumies" tactics in the past. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? >I liked how rose-tinted his glasses appear to be. > > Talking about "His squeeze job on teammate Lewis Hamilton exiting the > first turn at Spa last weekend clearly demonstrated his ill-will > toward Hamilton as well as a lack of any on-track ethics." like it > was some new phenomenon while completely ignoring history like Senna > crashing into Prost when both were at McLaren to ensure that Senna > took the Championship. Seems to me McLaren brings this type of > problem on themselves by NOT having a driver running as its designated #1. > > As to the $100 mil fine. Again McLaren brought it on themselves. If > they have been honest about the issue in June they would certainly > have been fined and seen some points taken away. But as in most > things it is not the initial crime that carried the real penalty but > the cover up. Ron and Company made the FIA look like fools for not > hitting them with any sanction after the first go round. When the > additional info came out that even the drivers were discussing the > stolen material in emails the FIA seems to have decided to slap > McLaren hard enough that it got their attention. > > Bernie is right in that the $100 mil fine was good publicity for F1. > I have friends that were astounded by the dollar number and these are > people that have barely heard of F1 but know that I watch the races > (I even subscribe to F1 Magazine) and they were asking me all kinds > of questions this past week. > > At 03:52 PM 9/20/2007, you wrote: >>Hello: >> >>If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware of >>the >>current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below will >>take >>you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. >> >>Gary >>62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" >>69 TR6 >> >>http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no92. >>html >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billsohl at optonline.net Thu Sep 20 19:47:45 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:47:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - where to stay? - 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EBF573805A84FDE983309E5BD4C5B9F@SohlPC> The KOA has both cabins and cottages...but most are already booked just like the many local area hotels and motels. ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: billsohl at optonline.net ; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net ; BillB at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen - where to stay? - 2008 The KOA also has Kamping Kabins...I did that once and liked it, OK. Joe (A) Here's another option for some folks... We have a travel trailer and have stayed each year at the KOA campgrounds which is only 3 miles from the track. I know other vintage racers have also stayed there. Cheers, Looking forward to a great event. Willing to help if needed in any planning, etc. Bill Sohl _______________________________________________ From stutzmans at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 19:58:21 2007 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:58:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 References: <60DB10D4-715C-4EB1-AE5D-31DDED3CB22D@bnj.com> Message-ID: <006401c7fbf2$e3a09d80$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> Pull out your N.Y. maps, guys. Painted Post, Corning and Horseheads are on I-86 between 15 & 20 miles from the track. They all have brand name hotels. Ithaca, where Russ lives, also has brand name hotels but a bit further away. There are 2 colleges there. Not likely that you'll find anything closer. We WPTA guys have been grandfathered at The Falls Motel in Montour Falls for years, almost walking distance. We have tried to get another room, unsuccessfully. Sunday night at the Seneca Lodge is great. Most people are gone, you can actually stand at the bar for a drink and get a dinner table when you want it. Don't do Watkins Glen without going to the Seneca Lodge. That is where a "schnockered" Buddy Palumbo peed in Julie's open suitcase. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Host Hotel? 2008 > Corning isn't all that close. There's a lot going on downtown during > the vintage festival. Maybe I will bring the Airstream just to have a > place to stay. I'll need to start working on Diane for this one. > Targa Newfoundland has always appealed to me too. Especially since > the Babcock since of the family is all from some dinky town in > Newfoundland where everyone looks like me. Scary. From what I hear > the gene poll is about a quarter inch deep. > Bill Babcock > billb at bnj.com > bnj Website for Babcock & Jenkins, a direct and interactive agency > > You can subscribe to my Blogs > Via email: > All Aluminum Tour: Touring and racing classic North American tracks. > http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=168395 > Ponohouse : Living and playing in Maui. http://www.feedblitz.com/f/? > Sub=168304 > > or Via RSS > Ponohouse: http://feeds.feedburner.com/PonoHouse > AllAluminumTour: http://feeds.feedburner.com/AllAluminumTour > > > > On Sep 18, 2007, at 9:24 PM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > >> Understanding what Jack has to say,I am looking outside of Watkins >> Glen for convenience and price. >> >> But if someone has a better inside track, go for it. >> >> I have stayed in or near Corning a few times with fair convenience >> and under $100. >> >> Joe A >> >> >>> Yeah, the week after holloween! >>> >>> The Seneca is booked by most folks on a yearly basis. You might >>> get a room or two if someone cancels at the last minute. It won't >>> hurt to check however. They could build a new wing. >>> >>> Contact the CofC soon and you might find another place in town. >>> >>> There will be places, but you MUST book soon. >>> >>> Jack Woehrle > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > stutzmans at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From igofaster at charter.net Thu Sep 20 20:00:14 2007 From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:00:14 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ Message-ID: <20070920220014.W0MWD.21261.root@fepweb10> Hello! I'm new to the forum, invited by Bob Kramer. I'm a longtime Triumph friend. I purchased this year the GT6 built by Bob Davis in central Florida. Way nice race preparred GT6, Bob Kramer can attest. My dilema is Mr. Davis did a heck of a job with the Toyota T5 gearbox conversion on the GT6. Recently with CVAR in Texas I enrolled in the driving school at TWS with the GT6. CVAR will allow me to continue for a short time to participate on a no points basis but I must return the Triumph to an appropriate gearbox. I'm open to suggestions. I've always felt the gearbox in the GT6's were soft at best. I had a TR6 gearbox I attempted to install at one time but looked like the frame would have to be cut and modified. I have a nice 1969 with an overdrive transmission, not sure if that is the answer. I only used 5th gear at TWS on the staightaway past the finish line and in the cooldown lap. The diff is the 3.73 (I think) locked. looking foward to the input... kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead 1970 GT6+ #33 From billsohl at optonline.net Thu Sep 20 20:18:46 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:18:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It would be great too if Charles (TRF) was able to bring along the '68 TR-250 "One Lap" car that was run in the 86, 87 and 88 one lap events. Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: ; Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:02 PM Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > FoT List: > > I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > > He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of > their > major event in September of next year. > > Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and > Running of the Original Street Course. > > Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and > our > Grand Marshall. > > The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace > Car > for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > > We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to > Jack > Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > > It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an > indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > > Regards, > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billsohl at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Thu Sep 20 20:23:51 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:23:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ Message-ID: We run a Triumph trans in our TR3 when we are allowed to run a Toyota trans. The irony of it all. I like the overdrive, but most racers don't. I have the Group 44 GT6 that I am trying to restore and would very much like to purchase your GT6 trans should you go a different route. Welcome to the list and you'll find a great group here. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From S.Janzen at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 20:35:47 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:35:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ References: <20070920220014.W0MWD.21261.root@fepweb10> Message-ID: <004501c7fbf8$1e223d10$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> This just came up on the Spit and GT6 forum http://members.boardhost.com/GT6-Spitfire/ after my car ate its gearbox - teeth stripped off the input gear shaft. Steve Smith has been running a TR6 trans for years. The GT6 box is apparently a weak point particularly in racing and/or with enhanced HP. Look for the dialogue on that site from about two weeks ago. I haven't converted yet, but I think that's the winter project. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:00 PM Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ > Hello! I'm new to the forum, invited by Bob Kramer. I'm a longtime Triumph > friend. I purchased this year the GT6 built by Bob Davis in central > Florida. Way nice race preparred GT6, Bob Kramer can attest. My dilema is > Mr. Davis did a heck of a job with the Toyota T5 gearbox conversion on the > GT6. Recently with CVAR in Texas I enrolled in the driving school at TWS > with the GT6. CVAR will allow me to continue for a short time to > participate on a no points basis but I must return the Triumph to an > appropriate gearbox. I'm open to suggestions. I've always felt the gearbox > in the GT6's were soft at best. I had a TR6 gearbox I attempted to install > at one time but looked like the frame would have to be cut and modified. I > have a nice 1969 with an overdrive transmission, not sure if that is the > answer. I only used 5th gear at TWS on the staightaway past the finish > line and in the cooldown lap. The diff is the 3.73 (I think) locked. > looking foward to the input... > kindest regards, > Bobby Whitehead > 1970 GT6+ #33 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Thu Sep 20 20:48:12 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:48:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Charles Illgen is BACK ON THE TRACK Thanks BOB THE CAR WON'T TURN COX Message-ID: Hi Gang..This is not all about Triumphs..but I bet that a bunch of you recognize the name as one heck of an SCCA Stanchion..The following is an email I sent to My Newsgroup Thanks for listening Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: RACER BUD To: DEREK MORGANMAN WILLBURN ; JIM SIX GUN HEARN ; ARTIE MOLDY CORDISCO ; BILL BURNOUT BOSTIC ; BILL PEYOTE SPECIAL BABCOCK ; BILL TECHNO ROOT ; BILL THE REVERAND MABRY ; BOB 356ER HEIMAN ; BOB FASPEC BREY ; BOB HACKSAW FRANK ; BOB JUST NORTH OF TOWN GUSFTASON ; BOB THE CAR WON'T TURN COX ; BRIAN 10.5 TENTHS FORSTER ; BRUCE SIDEWAYS LINCOLN JOHN ; BRUCE WHOSE BEANS ARE THOSE? ROSS ; CARL THE GRINDER STIRTZ ; CHARLES UPSIDE DOWN BMW ILLGEN ; CHARLIE LOST IN VEGAS HOOPAUGH ; CHUCK BIMSPINNER REYNOLDS ; COLLENA CUSHIONS MCHUGH ; DAN THE BOSS RADOWICZ ; DARCY I GOT MY MINI! PORTER ; DAVE POSTMASTER BOYD ; DEAN GEARHEAD COURT ; DEAN STEELHEAD BEAUPRE ; DENNIS THE COASTER ORTENBURGER ; DICK RISKY RYAN ; DOUG ROCKET MAN MUNSON ; ERIK I MAY NEED A WHEEL SAKUMA ; GARY MIRROR FILLER ANDERSON ; GARY TR HORSTKORTA ; HARDY CATPUSHER PRENTICE ; JACK 914-6 KUHN ; JANE RALLY GIRL BARKER ; JAY GODZILLA PATROL LAMM ; JEFF OUT TO LUNCH PRICE ; JERRY I THINK I'M JUST GONNA SELL THIS THING BURR ; JIM PENCILMAN WEISSENBORN ; JOE I DONT WANT TO JUST PLAY GOLF ANYMORE RILEY ; JOHN 0 OIL PRESSURE OTIS PETTIS ; JOHN CARZY RICE ; JOHN GO FOR IT LEWIS ; JOHN RIVERSIDE CONDREN ; JOHN SCABBARD BLAKEMORE ; JOHN T BIRD MILLER ; JOHN U BOAT BURTON ; JOHNNY NO PROBLEM NOLIND ; JULIA IOWA BLAIR ; KEN HOOKSETTER KIRK ; KEN NO FAULT BALL ; KEN STOMP BUCKET ARMANN ; KEVIN BACK AT IT SLOVER ; LARRY THE VOICE ALBEDI ; LEE SPUN OUT IN IDAHO HOGE ; LES WILL MY VETTE STOP? ALEXANDER ; MARK DEVIN BALESTRA ; MARTY 2 3/4 ALFAS HOROWITZ ; MARV NO FEAR STEELE ; MICHAEL AT SPEED PLITKINS ; MICHAEL I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR DOORS McDERMOTT ; MIKE FANG QUERIO ; MIKE KEEPER OF THE LOTI OSTROV ; MIKE LET'S DO THIS AGAIN TOMORROW MANNING ; MIKE SHIFTY JOHN ; PAUL THE VIKING PERRY ; PAUL TURBO RESNICK ; PETER I'M BUILDING SOMETHING KUNEDT ; RALPH CAMARO BANKMAN ; RAY BONNEVILLE HOWE ; RINDY RACER ; ROB I KNOW I CAN LAND THIS THING, JUST GIVE ME FULL THROTTLE SQUIRE ; ROBERTA ART BIRD ALEXANDER ; ROD 57 THROUGH THE TREES LEAVITT ; RON CROSSTHREAD CHISHOLM ; RON THROTTLEJOCKEY BOLLES ; RUSS VETTSTER UZES ; SCOTT HELICOPTER TROUTMAN ; SCOTT NOT AS SORE AS USUAL BERGEN ; SCOTT PILEDRIVER BROWN ; SKIP THE DRIP THOMPSON ; STEVE CAR SAVER BRISCOE ; STU ELVMASTER HOCKMAN ; TERRY AND CINDY I SHOULD HAVE STOPPED THIS STUFF O'BEIRNE ; TERRY TAPE DISTRIBUTOR GRIMM ; THOM BOY RACER IN FLORIDA COLLINS ; TIM 1988 IN TEXAS ARNETT ; TIM ROUNDY ROUNDS CRITCHELL ; TOM MAD DOG DUNCAN ; TOM MIATAMANIAC ANDERSON ; TOM TOSCANNELI DELAUER ; TRACY BIG HEALEY DRUMMOND ; TYLER TIME FOR A PORSCHE HUNT ; WARREN ROCKY PIERCE Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:37 PM Subject: Charles Illgen is BACK ON THE TRACK Thanks BOB THE CAR WON'T TURN COX Hi Gang..It's a long story for those of you who don't know CHARLES UPSIDE DOWN BMW ILLGEN..so..I'll cut to The chase...The SCCA Annual Enduro is named after Charles' Dad...Marty Illgen......Charles raced in the early 1980s, ..His Goal/Dream has been to race in .. "MY DAD'S RACE'...The S. Fran Region..SCCA Enduro.....Now...thanks to BOB THE CAR WON'T TURN COX...Charles has a Race Car...Bob has loaned the car to Chas..100% free..no charge whatsoever. This weekend..9/22-23..Chas will be at Infineon for the NASA school/event..to get 'Back In Tune' for his license... If YOU WILL/CAN BE at the NASA event this coming Weekend... Charles will Greatly appreciate some help in the pits..and would like to pit with someone..Charles is about 60 years of age..and is "Gutsy enough to start Racing Again.. GOOD JOB CHARLES Racver Bud From vintage.racer at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 21:08:51 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:08:51 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR-3A for sale Message-ID: <002a01c7fbfc$bc834b80$4acd0518@GHOffice> Hello: If anyone is interested, there is a very pristine, stock, 1960 TR-3A , British Racing Green with tan interior for sale here in Northern California. The car had numerous mechancial and some exterior restoration work completed over the last three years, although it was in good shape when purchased from the original owner. It has been driven approximately 1,500 miles per year in that period. I have no interest in this car other than helping a friend offer it for sale to FOT first before offering it to the general public. If anyone would like to contact the owner directly for more information, please email me offline. Gary 62 TR4 69 TR6 From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 22:30:13 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:30:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> Message-ID: <22CDB7D7-79C9-4EF4-B5FF-FA29DC6BF958@bnj.com> It's hardly boring, especially this year. I purposely paid as little attention as I could during the four months of the all aluminum Tour so I could watch it all on Tivo. That and MotoGP. I'm having a pleasnat time between cleaning my shop and disassembling Peyote (it's worse than I thought it was) drinking beer and watching F1 and MotoGP. Best thing about F1 these days is the qualifying. That and the amazing set of drivers in the top five. On Sep 20, 2007, at 7:07 PM, Terry Stetler wrote: > It's all about the money. > > That said I still very much enjoy F1. It is an astonishing technical > exercise. Very much like building high performance military aircraft. > Amazing what the human mind can come up with when given a really > restrictive > set of parameters, and enough cash... > > It may be boring to many Americans to watch an F1 race, but not to me. > 18,000+rpm is music to my ears. > > Terry Stetler > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:52 PM > Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? > > > Hello: > > If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well > aware of > the > current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link > below will > take > you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. > > Gary > 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" > 69 TR6 > > http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/ > the_way_it_is_no9 > 2 the_way_it_is_no9 > 2>. > html > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > tlizzard at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot mailman/li > stinfo/fot> > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 22:33:31 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:33:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> <000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: <9BEAB31B-C79C-4764-AA8E-31AC25D1A5F9@bnj.com> Non competition agreements are extremely hard to enforce anywhere and are rare outside the U.S. On Sep 20, 2007, at 7:26 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > I guess that everyone is entitled to his opinion. Personally, I am > pleased > with the penalties that were levied. The only thing that I didn't > particularly like was that the drivers points were unaffected. > > What I heard is that the drivers were guaranteed to keep their > points in > order to get them to cooperate with the investigation. > > But I wonder how this episode has left Alonzo in the eyes of > McLaren. My > guess is that he will be wearing different livery next year. > > I guess it all could be compared with employment in industries that > have > trade secret information at stake. Employees typically sign non- > disclosure > agreements and their contracts are always laced with clauses > stipulating > that they are prohibited from working for any competitor for at > least a > couple of years after leaving their current employer. > > Surely, these teams have similar commitments involved in their hiring > practices. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:53 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? > > Hello: > > If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well > aware of the > current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link below > will > take > you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. > > Gary > 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" > 69 TR6 > > http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/ > the_way_it_is_no92 > . > html > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 22:39:43 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:39:43 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: there's a lot of times that I'd like another gear, I could probably "get away" with a five speed in Peyote, but it just doesn't seem quite right. I know it did have an overdrive for awhile--there was a switch sort of like a turn switch on the dash when I got it from Baxter Culver. I think you're better off running the four speed and getting the right rear end ratio for the tracks you like best. On Sep 20, 2007, at 10:23 PM, GRMTim at aol.com wrote: > We run a Triumph trans in our TR3 when we are allowed to run a > Toyota trans. > The irony of it all. I like the overdrive, but most racers don't. I > have the > Group 44 GT6 that I am trying to restore and would very much like > to purchase > your GT6 trans should you go a different route. Welcome to the list > and you'll > find a great group here. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 20 22:41:59 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:41:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ In-Reply-To: <004501c7fbf8$1e223d10$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <20070920220014.W0MWD.21261.root@fepweb10> <004501c7fbf8$1e223d10$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: <6AF778A4-5EC6-4AFA-9EBA-C2AE6C5A4DBD@bnj.com> I'm not that familiar with GT6 or Spitfires, but TR3/6 gearboxes are pretty weak too. Generally the layshaft bearing goes south because it's small and not all that well supported. I've heard that there are some fixes for this, including dual bearings on the rear end of the layshaft. Anyone ever hear of this? On Sep 20, 2007, at 10:35 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: > This just came up on the Spit and GT6 forum > http://members.boardhost.com/GT6-Spitfire/ after my car ate its > gearbox - > teeth stripped off the input gear shaft. Steve Smith has been > running a TR6 > trans for years. The GT6 box is apparently a weak point > particularly in > racing and/or with enhanced HP. Look for the dialogue on that site > from > about two weeks ago. > I haven't converted yet, but I think that's the winter project. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:00 PM > Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ > > >> Hello! I'm new to the forum, invited by Bob Kramer. I'm a longtime >> Triumph >> friend. I purchased this year the GT6 built by Bob Davis in central >> Florida. Way nice race preparred GT6, Bob Kramer can attest. My >> dilema is >> Mr. Davis did a heck of a job with the Toyota T5 gearbox >> conversion on the >> GT6. Recently with CVAR in Texas I enrolled in the driving school >> at TWS >> with the GT6. CVAR will allow me to continue for a short time to >> participate on a no points basis but I must return the Triumph to an >> appropriate gearbox. I'm open to suggestions. I've always felt the >> gearbox >> in the GT6's were soft at best. I had a TR6 gearbox I attempted to >> install >> at one time but looked like the frame would have to be cut and >> modified. I >> have a nice 1969 with an overdrive transmission, not sure if that >> is the >> answer. I only used 5th gear at TWS on the staightaway past the >> finish >> line and in the cooldown lap. The diff is the 3.73 (I think) locked. >> looking foward to the input... >> kindest regards, >> Bobby Whitehead >> 1970 GT6+ #33 >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> s.janzen at comcast.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Thu Sep 20 22:45:59 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:45:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice> <22CDB7D7-79C9-4EF4-B5FF-FA29DC6BF958@bnj.com> Message-ID: <010701c7fc0a$4e36df80$5717c548@RW> I kind of hate to say it, but maybe now is the time to exercise the Ambro interest. I agree the F-1 qualifying is fantastic. Wish I were in it. It is a crafty, thinking business period, in a not too interesting racing era.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Terry Stetler" Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? > It's hardly boring, especially this year. I purposely paid as little > attention as I could during the four months of the all aluminum Tour > so I could watch it all on Tivo. That and MotoGP. I'm having a > pleasnat time between cleaning my shop and disassembling Peyote (it's > worse than I thought it was) drinking beer and watching F1 and > MotoGP. Best thing about F1 these days is the qualifying. That and > the amazing set of drivers in the top five. > On Sep 20, 2007, at 7:07 PM, Terry Stetler wrote: > >> It's all about the money. >> >> That said I still very much enjoy F1. It is an astonishing technical >> exercise. Very much like building high performance military aircraft. >> Amazing what the human mind can come up with when given a really >> restrictive >> set of parameters, and enough cash... >> >> It may be boring to many Americans to watch an F1 race, but not to me. >> 18,000+rpm is music to my ears. >> >> Terry Stetler >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Gary >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:52 PM >> Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? >> >> >> Hello: >> >> If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well >> aware of >> the >> current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link >> below will >> take >> you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its worth a read. >> >> Gary >> 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" >> 69 TR6 >> >> http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/ >> the_way_it_is_no9 >> 2> the_way_it_is_no9 >> 2>. >> html >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> tlizzard at msn.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> mailman/li >> stinfo/fot> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> billb at bnj.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Thu Sep 20 22:58:20 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ In-Reply-To: <20070920220014.W0MWD.21261.root@fepweb10> Message-ID: <869572.62233.qm@web53505.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Bobby, Welcome to the list. There is a guy up here in CT by the name of John Esposito, Quantum Mechanics is the name of his business, and he builds-rebuilds GT-6 boxes using TR7 internal parts. From what I understand, all is pretty much the same except the TR7 parts are much "beefier". I can get you his number if you are interested. He has rebuilt my GT-6 box for my racing spit (SCCA) though I did not go with the TR7 bits, as I am going towards a dog-box in the future. Jay R. Creel igofaster at charter.net wrote: Hello! I'm new to the forum, invited by Bob Kramer. I'm a longtime Triumph friend. I purchased this year the GT6 built by Bob Davis in central Florida. Way nice race preparred GT6, Bob Kramer can attest. My dilema is Mr. Davis did a heck of a job with the Toyota T5 gearbox conversion on the GT6. Recently with CVAR in Texas I enrolled in the driving school at TWS with the GT6. CVAR will allow me to continue for a short time to participate on a no points basis but I must return the Triumph to an appropriate gearbox. I'm open to suggestions. I've always felt the gearbox in the GT6's were soft at best. I had a TR6 gearbox I attempted to install at one time but looked like the frame would have to be cut and modified. I have a nice 1969 with an overdrive transmission, not sure if that is the answer. I only used 5th gear at TWS on the staightaway past the finish line and in the cooldown lap. The diff is the 3.73 (I think) locked. looking foward to the input... kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead 1970 GT6+ #33 jaxonracing at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. From tsheach at pba.co.uk Fri Sep 21 04:30:33 2007 From: tsheach at pba.co.uk (tr4.tony@virgin.net) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:30:33 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ Message-ID: Hi folks I now run what is basically a triumph stag kd or ld series a type overdive box in bst82B .... The ct and cp series tr gearboxes were too weak for rally use and I minced a few before I started using the stag. The main differences are the layshaft and bearing ... Essentially the mod for non stag boxes replicate what triumph eventually produced. Looks original and right. Rgds Tony -----Original Message----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Scott Janzen" Cc: fot at autox.team.net; igofaster at charter.net Sent: 21/09/07 05:41 Subject: Re: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ I'm not that familiar with GT6 or Spitfires, but TR3/6 gearboxes are pretty weak too. Generally the layshaft bearing goes south because it's small and not all that well supported. I've heard that there are some fixes for this, including dual bearings on the rear end of the layshaft. Anyone ever hear of this? On Sep 20, 2007, at 10:35 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: > This just came up on the Spit and GT6 forum > http://members.boardhost.com/GT6-Spitfire/ after my car ate its > gearbox - > teeth stripped off the input gear shaft. Steve Smith has been > running a TR6 > trans for years. The GT6 box is apparently a weak point > particularly in > racing and/or with enhanced HP. Look for the dialogue on that site > from > about two weeks ago. > I haven't converted yet, but I think that's the winter project. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:00 PM > Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ > > >> Hello! I'm new to the forum, invited by Bob Kramer. I'm a longtime From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 21 04:28:12 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:28:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] GT6 gearbox Message-ID: <003901c7fc3a$1cc34350$0101a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> If the organization will accept big TR boxes and/or the 5th gear is the hangup with them, then put in the Toyota 4psd. It is a drop in replacement. Or even better yet, pull the gearbox and take the 5th gear out. It was just and add in to the 4 speed gearbox by Toyota anyway. Bob ex- 70 GT6 vintage race owner From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Fri Sep 21 07:16:17 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 08:16:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> I didn't realize until this thread started that some organizations allow other gearboxes if 'functionally equivalent". Same goes for brakes. Here are excerpts from SVRA's rules: "Transmissions: Must be functionally equivalent to the unit provided by the manufacturer. Gear ratios are free with no increase in the number of forward speeds. Reverse must work." The old TR gearbox with overdrive gives six speeds. Converting to Toyota or other would bring that back down to five. Likewise on brakes, (too long to retype) the gist of it is that alternate rotors, drums, and calipers are allowed as long as current dimensions, materials, and pad area are maintained. I really like those regs. Not all North American racing clubs agree. The only "advantage" these regs may give a competitor is in a reduction of maintenance cost and time. Everybody who has tried to keep Triumph transmissions intact for more than a couple of years, or anyone who has tried to make the new stainless brake pistons and new seals actually work, will appreciate what I mean. uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Fri Sep 21 07:40:05 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 08:40:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820A9C8DF4@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Bobby is with CVAR and we don't have anything like the SVRA "functionally equivalent" in our rules but he can use a TR6 gearbox. As a side note, BPNW is selling nitrided caliper pistons. No chrome to flake of and they are advertised as rust resistant. I have them in a street TR6. Time will tell. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack W. Drews Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:16 AM To: fot at autox.team.net; Carl Braun; rdwismer at mchsi.com Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality I didn't realize until this thread started that some organizations allow other gearboxes if 'functionally equivalent". Same goes for brakes. Here are excerpts from SVRA's rules: "Transmissions: Must be functionally equivalent to the unit provided by the manufacturer. Gear ratios are free with no increase in the number of forward speeds. Reverse must work." The old TR gearbox with overdrive gives six speeds. Converting to Toyota or other would bring that back down to five. Likewise on brakes, (too long to retype) the gist of it is that alternate rotors, drums, and calipers are allowed as long as current dimensions, materials, and pad area are maintained. I really like those regs. Not all North American racing clubs agree. The only "advantage" these regs may give a competitor is in a reduction of maintenance cost and time. Everybody who has tried to keep Triumph transmissions intact for more than a couple of years, or anyone who has tried to make the new stainless brake pistons and new seals actually work, will appreciate what I mean. uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net rkramer at rdoequipment.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From n197tr4 at cs.com Fri Sep 21 08:02:50 2007 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:02:50 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER Message-ID: <380-22007952114250178@M2W037.mail2web.com> I will ask Charles... Original Message: ----------------- From: Bill Sohl billsohl at optonline.net Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:18:46 -0400 To: N197TR4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net, Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER It would be great too if Charles (TRF) was able to bring along the '68 TR-250 "One Lap" car that was run in the 86, 87 and 88 one lap events. Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: ; Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:02 PM Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > FoT List: > > I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > > He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of > their > major event in September of next year. > > Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and > Running of the Original Street Course. > > Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and > our > Grand Marshall. > > The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace > Car > for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > > We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to > Jack > Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > > It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an > indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > > Regards, > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billsohl at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com  Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft. Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From awashatko at wi.rr.com Fri Sep 21 08:09:31 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:09:31 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Message-ID: Friends, As long as we are on this path what would the group recommend for an upgrade to my TR6 race car transmission? I'm currently running TR7 close ratio gears in the TR6 case with a race prepared "J" type overdrive. Worked well until last weekend when I took all of the teeth off the input shaft and 4th gear. Is the Stag transmission an option? Does someone make straight cut gears for the TR? If you use the Toyota box, is it strong enough and can you get a good set of gear ratio's? Is someone making a kit that doesn't cost an arm and leg (close to $5,000 from Moss)? I'm producing approx. 225HP. Allen Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Fri Sep 21 08:44:51 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:44:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003801c7fc5d$f93a8af0$1342a8c0@semperon3400> Check Herman's conversions: http://www.hvdaconversions.com/ He's a great guy and has engineered these kits himself, from what I gather... Clark From N197TR4 at cs.com Fri Sep 21 09:06:15 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:06:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Message-ID: Outstanding folks, the Van Den Akkers. He sold his Tool & Die Company a few years ago and is operating out his garage north of Los Angeles. He has some significant machine tools in his garage and knows how to use them. He devotes most of his time to Triumphs, works closely with Ken Gillanders, and is known to drive his TR250 from coast to coast with the scheduling of major Triumph Events. Joe (A) > Check Herman's conversions: > http://www.hvdaconversions.com/ > He's a great guy and has engineered these kits himself, from what I > gather... > Clark > From RustyTR4 at aol.com Fri Sep 21 10:41:51 2007 From: RustyTR4 at aol.com (RustyTR4 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:41:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Firestones??? Message-ID: Hello FOT, We would like to source Firestones -- preferable 165 X R15's. Does anyone know about availability?? Thanks, Don Weinberger Matt Bakes Triumph Rescue (610) 845 - 8217 _www.TriumphRescue.com_ (http://www.triumphrescue.com/) British Wiring, Inc. 866-461-9050 _www.BritishWiring.com_ (http://www.britishwiring.com/) 617 Walnut St. Bally, PA. 19503 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From Fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 21 10:57:40 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:57:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ Message-ID: In a message dated 9/21/2007 12:43:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: Generally the layshaft bearing goes south because it's small and not all that well supported. I've heard that there are some fixes for this, including dual bearings on the rear end of the layshaft. Anyone ever hear of this? The Stag has an improved laygear bearing setup but there really isn't that big a problem with the stock arrangement IF you use good parts & service it regularly. Some of the laygear replacement bearings are caged & don't have many needles in them. Torrington has a nice bearing but sometimes you have to deepen the housing bore a tad to fit them. The laygear thrusts wear from the little pieces of trash getting behind the gear & the thrust washer & backside of the washer & eating up the gear thrust washer & case but frequent lube changes minimizes this. The biggest problem is getting good parts for them. Most of the good OEM stuff is gone & repros are always in question.Syncros are a big problem, lot of bogus pos replacements on the market. Kens BFE CR gearset is great & if the box is built right & maintained it will live a good life. Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From cartravel at pobox.com Fri Sep 21 12:34:31 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:34:31 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46F40EB7.2040001@pobox.com> My transmission rebuild article at www.vtr.org has pictures of the three different layshaft bearings and typical layshaft wear. The best arrangement was the loose needle bearings used in the 3 synchro boxes, but unfortunately these can't be used in a 4 synchro box. I agree with Glen. The shell type bearings are the next best and they can be used as a direct replacement for the open cage bearings. Triumph seems to have changed these bearings more for ease of assembly rather than improved wear and reliability. Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/21/2007 12:43:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > billb at bnj.com writes: > > Generally the layshaft bearing goes south because > it's small and not all that well supported. I've heard that there are > some fixes for this, including dual bearings on the rear end of the > layshaft. Anyone ever hear of this? > > > > The Stag has an improved laygear bearing setup but there really isn't that > big a problem with the stock arrangement IF you use good parts & service it > regularly. > Some of the laygear replacement bearings are caged & don't have many needles > in them. Torrington has a nice bearing but sometimes you have to deepen the > housing bore a tad to fit them. > The laygear thrusts wear from the little pieces of trash getting behind the > gear & the thrust washer & backside of the washer & eating up the gear thrust > washer & case but frequent lube changes minimizes this. > The biggest problem is getting good parts for them. Most of the good OEM > stuff is gone & repros are always in question.Syncros are a big problem, lot of > bogus pos replacements on the market. > Kens BFE CR gearset is great & if the box is built right & maintained it > will live a good life. > Glen > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > cartravel at pobox.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Fri Sep 21 12:46:28 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:46:28 EDT Subject: [Fot] Transmission for racing GT6+ Message-ID: > Kens BFE CR gearset is great & if the box is built right & maintained it > will live a good life. > Glen > I have had BFE's CR Gearset for two years now. I love it. Joe A From kaskas at cox.net Fri Sep 21 13:14:05 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:14:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox References: Message-ID: <001f01c7fc83$95905d10$5717c548@RW> My Competition Prep book has a story and some photos of Herman's conversion. Good stuff. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox > Outstanding folks, the Van Den Akkers. > > He sold his Tool & Die Company a few years ago and is operating out his > garage north of Los Angeles. He has some significant machine tools in his > garage > and knows how to use them. > > He devotes most of his time to Triumphs, works closely with Ken > Gillanders, > and is known to drive his TR250 from coast to coast with the scheduling of > major Triumph Events. > > Joe (A) > >> Check Herman's conversions: >> http://www.hvdaconversions.com/ >> He's a great guy and has engineered these kits himself, from what I >> gather... >> Clark >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 21 13:32:52 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:32:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <001901c7fc86$33c404d0$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> amen to that! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack W. Drews" To: ; "Carl Braun" ; Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 9:16 AM Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality >I didn't realize until this thread started that some organizations > allow other gearboxes if 'functionally equivalent". Same goes for > brakes. Here are excerpts from SVRA's rules: > > "Transmissions: Must be functionally equivalent to the unit provided > by the manufacturer. Gear ratios are free with no increase in the > number of forward speeds. Reverse must work." > > The old TR gearbox with overdrive gives six speeds. Converting to > Toyota or other would bring that back down to five. > > Likewise on brakes, (too long to retype) the gist of it is that > alternate rotors, drums, and calipers are allowed as long as current > dimensions, materials, and pad area are maintained. > > I really like those regs. Not all North American racing clubs agree. > The only "advantage" these regs may give a competitor is in a > reduction of maintenance cost and time. Everybody who has tried to > keep Triumph transmissions intact for more than a couple of years, or > anyone who has tried to make the new stainless brake pistons and new > seals actually work, will appreciate what I mean. > > uncle jack > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From hottr6 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 21 13:45:51 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:45:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Message-ID: Allan Washatko asked: >As long as we are on this path what would the group recommend for an >upgrade to my TR6 race car transmission? I'm currently running TR7 close >ratio gears in the TR6 case with a race prepared "J" type overdrive. Same setup that I am running, but not pushing anywhere near that HP. IMO the next best course would be a dog box. I think Dan Masters runs one of these. So too Dave Wingett. Shane Ingate, now in NEW MEXICO! _________________________________________________________________ Gear up for Halo. 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_MSNHMTxt_1 From spitlist at cox.net Fri Sep 21 13:58:21 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:58:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox References: <001f01c7fc83$95905d10$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <008401c7fc89$c3f0b640$2d02a8c0@Belkin> Herman is probably going to be at Triumphest next month and he usually brings some stuff with him. So if anyone who is going to be there wants to see his gearbox conversion in person, now is your chance. Joe C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox > My Competition Prep book has a story and some photos of Herman's conversion. > Good stuff. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; ; > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:06 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox > > > > Outstanding folks, the Van Den Akkers. > > > > He sold his Tool & Die Company a few years ago and is operating out his > > garage north of Los Angeles. He has some significant machine tools in his > > garage > > and knows how to use them. > > > > He devotes most of his time to Triumphs, works closely with Ken > > Gillanders, > > and is known to drive his TR250 from coast to coast with the scheduling of > > major Triumph Events. > > > > Joe (A) > > > >> Check Herman's conversions: > >> http://www.hvdaconversions.com/ > >> He's a great guy and has engineered these kits himself, from what I > >> gather... > >> Clark > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > kaskas at cox.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Fri Sep 21 13:48:41 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:48:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Message-ID: IMO the next best course would be a dog box. I think Dan Masters runs one of these. So too Dave Wingett. Are these the Quaife gears or something else? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Fri Sep 21 13:48:08 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:48:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <9BEAB31B-C79C-4764-AA8E-31AC25D1A5F9@bnj.com> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice><000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <9BEAB31B-C79C-4764-AA8E-31AC25D1A5F9@bnj.com> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715F67@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> And by the time you're trying to enforce them, the confidentiality horse is out of the barn... -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:34 PM To: Joe Curry Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? Non competition agreements are extremely hard to enforce anywhere and are rare outside the U.S. On Sep 20, 2007, at 7:26 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > I guess that everyone is entitled to his opinion. Personally, I am > pleased with the penalties that were levied. The only thing that I > didn't particularly like was that the drivers points were unaffected. > > What I heard is that the drivers were guaranteed to keep their points > in order to get them to cooperate with the investigation. > > But I wonder how this episode has left Alonzo in the eyes of McLaren. > My guess is that he will be wearing different livery next year. > > I guess it all could be compared with employment in industries that > have trade secret information at stake. Employees typically sign non- > disclosure agreements and their contracts are always laced with > clauses stipulating that they are prohibited from working for any > competitor for at least a couple of years after leaving their current > employer. > > Surely, these teams have similar commitments involved in their hiring > practices. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:53 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? > > Hello: > > If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware > of the current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link > below will take you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its > worth a read. > > Gary > 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" > 69 TR6 > > http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/ > the_way_it_is_no92 > . > html > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot scott.barr at mccarty-law.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fasttrs at mindspring.com Fri Sep 21 14:17:00 2007 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:17:00 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002301c7fc8c$5e0cb2e0$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> I run a Saenz dog box also. Mike -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Shane Ingate Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 3:46 PM To: awashatko at wi.rr.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Allan Washatko asked: >As long as we are on this path what would the group recommend for an >upgrade to my TR6 race car transmission? I'm currently running TR7 close >ratio gears in the TR6 case with a race prepared "J" type overdrive. Same setup that I am running, but not pushing anywhere near that HP. IMO the next best course would be a dog box. I think Dan Masters runs one of these. So too Dave Wingett. Shane Ingate, now in NEW MEXICO! _________________________________________________________________ Gear up for Halo. 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_MSNHMTxt_1 fasttrs at mindspring.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From henry at henryfrye.com Fri Sep 21 14:21:42 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:21:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> When I first realized SVRA was allowing alternate gearboxes I did a little nosing around and found the concept was not universally accepted. I can sympathize with those who do not build their own gearboxes, it would be expensive to send your box out to a specialist every time it needs attention. But once you get it set up right, with the right syncros, and DRIVE IT RIGHT, there is no reason it can't last a couple seasons or more. Mine does. To the guys running non-Triumph gearboxes, I do feel you have a performance advantage. If you want to keep the regular (non-dog box) Triumph box alive, you must shift much slower than modern stuff. Tell me with a straight face that doesn't effect lap times. While I applaud SVRA for their intent, I feel they have just removed another layer of "Vintage". And to those thinking the Toyota box conversion is the answer, do your homework on spares availability... Happy shifting. > -----Original Message----- > From: Of Jack W. Drews > Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality > > I didn't realize until this thread started that some > organizations allow other gearboxes if 'functionally > equivalent". From RYoung at navcomtech.com Fri Sep 21 14:44:40 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:44:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: > And to those thinking the Toyota box conversion is the answer, do your > homework on spares availability... Hint : There's a place in El Monte, CA that brings in used ones from Japan, because they are cheaper than repairing broken ones. The broken ones get sold for scrap ... Randall fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 21 15:20:55 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:20:55 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715F67@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> References: <004201c7fbd8$f19ca0b0$4acd0518@GHOffice><000001c7fbdd$b2c81630$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <9BEAB31B-C79C-4764-AA8E-31AC25D1A5F9@bnj.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74715F67@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <02E039CD-BFC0-4C81-9279-192BED798A66@bnj.com> That too. My agency has a big technology base, valuable client relationships, and bushels of confidential information. Oregon has draconian confidentiality laws (thanks to Tektronix and Intel) and we are very careful to dot the t's and cross the i's to make our non-comp and confidentiality agreements binding when we hire someone. With all that going for us, the few times we've had to release the lawyers from hell, the only value was lots of shared pain between us and the miscreants. If you're in a better position to stand the pain then you sort of win. On Sep 21, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Barr, Scott wrote: > And by the time you're trying to enforce them, the confidentiality > horse > is out of the barn... > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On > Behalf > Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:34 PM > To: Joe Curry > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? > > Non competition agreements are extremely hard to enforce anywhere and > are rare outside the U.S. > > On Sep 20, 2007, at 7:26 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > >> I guess that everyone is entitled to his opinion. Personally, I am >> pleased with the penalties that were levied. The only thing that I >> didn't particularly like was that the drivers points were unaffected. >> >> What I heard is that the drivers were guaranteed to keep their points >> in order to get them to cooperate with the investigation. >> >> But I wonder how this episode has left Alonzo in the eyes of McLaren. > >> My guess is that he will be wearing different livery next year. >> >> I guess it all could be compared with employment in industries that >> have trade secret information at stake. Employees typically sign >> non- > >> disclosure agreements and their contracts are always laced with >> clauses stipulating that they are prohibited from working for any >> competitor for at least a couple of years after leaving their current >> employer. >> >> Surely, these teams have similar commitments involved in their hiring >> practices. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net >> [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of >> Gary >> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:53 PM >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> Subject: [Fot] Is There A Bigger Soap Opera? >> >> Hello: >> >> If any of you follow the Formula One "circus", then you're well aware >> of the current McLaren/Ferrari Affair...what a soap opera. The link >> below will take you to an excellent viewpoint by Gordan Kirby. Its >> worth a read. >> >> Gary >> 62 TR4 "The Flying Brick" >> 69 TR6 >> >> http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/ >> the_way_it_is_no92 >> . >> html >> spitlist at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> billb at bnj.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > scott.barr at mccarty-law.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 21 15:40:34 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:40:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: This is one of those rare occasions when I don't agree with you Henry. No doubt deliberate shifting is the answer to longevity, and no doubt the cost of not shifting deliberately should modify behavior. But it doesn't. There are those folks that can get around a track pulling everything out of a car without grinding a gear. And those that can't. You see it at every level of racing--the people with mysterious mechanical sympathy that never break anything but still stand on podiums, and the mid-pack folks that can break the ears off a brass donkey. It's a talent, it's not a conscious decision. The TR gearbox is painfully fragile and very expensive to optimize. There's fewer of them every day (it's like COBOL programmers-- thousands will die this year). Even when you have a really superbly assembled TR box it's life-span in even a 140 HP TR is relatively short, and there's no useful new parts. IMNSHO the idea is to keep racing these cars, not to price that foolish act beyond the means of the average folks. I'm all in favor of the compromises that do that. And for what it's worth, my Hardy Prentice-built CR box shifts at least as fast as my dog box, and snicks into gear like a Ferrari transmission. But you need to wait months for Hardy to watch enough television to build one (he stones the gears while he watching TV) and when you crate the transmission you might as well use ten dollar bills for packing material instead of newspaper, 'cause that's about what it will take. The dog box is an economy measure (at least that's the story I told Diane, and I'm sticking with it). On Sep 21, 2007, at 4:21 PM, Henry Frye wrote: > When I first realized SVRA was allowing alternate gearboxes I did a > little nosing around and found the concept was not universally > accepted. > > > I can sympathize with those who do not build their own gearboxes, it > would be expensive to send your box out to a specialist every time it > needs attention. But once you get it set up right, with the right > syncros, and DRIVE IT RIGHT, there is no reason it can't last a couple > seasons or more. Mine does. > > To the guys running non-Triumph gearboxes, I do feel you have a > performance advantage. If you want to keep the regular (non-dog box) > Triumph box alive, you must shift much slower than modern stuff. > Tell me > with a straight face that doesn't effect lap times. > > While I applaud SVRA for their intent, I feel they have just removed > another layer of "Vintage". > > And to those thinking the Toyota box conversion is the answer, do your > homework on spares availability... > > Happy shifting. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Of Jack W. Drews >> Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality >> >> I didn't realize until this thread started that some >> organizations allow other gearboxes if 'functionally >> equivalent". > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 21 15:45:27 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:45:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <1D27710E-D176-43BF-AFBE-61E66698A5C8@bnj.com> Toyota gearboxes are as common as belly buttons, and most have minimal wear on them. The Japanese have interesting licensing and inspection laws that ensure the domestic cars turn over frequently. The drivetrains are frequently exported to the US. It would be unusual to rebuild one--you can get a replacement for next to nothing. I paid a hundred bucks for two from 2TG toyotas--of course that was four years ago. I pulled them apart to check the typical wear areas and they were indistinguishable from new. FWIW, I never used them. They're in my storeroom waiting for me to build something that could use them. On Sep 21, 2007, at 4:44 PM, Young Randall wrote: >> And to those thinking the Toyota box conversion is the answer, do >> your >> homework on spares availability... > > Hint : There's a place in El Monte, CA that brings in used ones > from Japan, > because they are cheaper than repairing broken ones. The broken > ones get sold > for scrap ... > > Randall > > > > > fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted > with it may > contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one > of its > affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual > or entity to > whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not > disclosed > to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you > are not the > intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the > electronic > mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this > electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, > printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly > prohibited. If you > have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately > notify the > sender by return mail. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mdporter at dfn.com Fri Sep 21 16:05:10 2007 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:05:10 -0600 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <1D27710E-D176-43BF-AFBE-61E66698A5C8@bnj.com> References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> <1D27710E-D176-43BF-AFBE-61E66698A5C8@bnj.com> Message-ID: <46F44016.2080208@dfn.com> Bill Babcock wrote: > Toyota gearboxes are as common as belly buttons, and most have > minimal wear on them. The Japanese have interesting licensing and > inspection laws that ensure the domestic cars turn over frequently. > The drivetrains are frequently exported to the US. It would be > unusual to rebuild one--you can get a replacement for next to > nothing. I paid a hundred bucks for two from 2TG toyotas--of course > that was four years ago. I pulled them apart to check the typical > wear areas and they were indistinguishable from new. > > What Bill says is probably true of the transmissions today. However, this is not precisely true of the Celica/Supra/4WD 5-speeds of yesteryear, so be careful from whence the transmission comes. From the late `70s until around the mid-`80s, the 5-speeds had a tendency to fail mainshaft bearings. Toyota was aware of the problem and decided it was cheaper to just informally extend the warranty on the transmission than to do a mold and machining change to modify the case for a wider roller bearing at the front, and continued to use a ball bearing, which wasn't up to the loads. Oh, and if someone tells you their transmission came out of the diesel truck and is therefore stronger, that's not true--those transmissions were the same as the above. All that probably does not apply for anything made beyond the mid- to late-`80s, but there are still lots of the older transmissions in junkyards, so it's worth remembering. To a lesser degree, the same was true of the Corolla 5-speeds of the time, but they didn't suffer the same rate of failure because they just couldn't be pushed as hard. Even so, in the sixteen months I was at a Toyota shop in the early `80s, I did do a bearing replacement on a Corolla 5-speed with about 30,000 miles on it. All that said, though, they're a much better starting point than the GT6 gearbox.... Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 21 16:31:42 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:31:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net><2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local><1D27710E-D176-43BF-AFBE-61E66698A5C8@bnj.com> <46F44016.2080208@dfn.com> Message-ID: <008001c7fc9f$2fb047f0$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> This GT6 has a T50 5 speed so can't say much about the others (besides the others are much larger and heavier than the T50). However, they did modify the front of the T50 case to accept a larger input shaft ball bearing assembly in the later gearboxes which was supposed to help. When buying spare parts (which are readily available if you know where to look) you need to know which box you have. I have looked inside 100K gearboxes and 50K gearboxes. Bearings show little or no wear in either. Even the syncro's are still good and Granny drove the car for 20 years. Used gearboxes are everywhere for $150-$200. Really good ones from Japan are $500-$1000. A variety of close ratio gear sets are available if you look hard . I know I will get hammered for saying this.....but most of us are just wannabe drivers anyway (me included) and how much advantage will the gearbox really give you. It will sure keep you on the track longer and seeing the cars on the track is really the fun for alot of us. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Porter" To: "Bill Babcock" Cc: ; "Young Randall" Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 6:05 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > Bill Babcock wrote: >> Toyota gearboxes are as common as belly buttons, and most have >> minimal wear on them. The Japanese have interesting licensing and >> inspection laws that ensure the domestic cars turn over frequently. >> The drivetrains are frequently exported to the US. It would be >> unusual to rebuild one--you can get a replacement for next to >> nothing. I paid a hundred bucks for two from 2TG toyotas--of course >> that was four years ago. I pulled them apart to check the typical >> wear areas and they were indistinguishable from new. >> >> > > What Bill says is probably true of the transmissions today. However, > this is not precisely true of the Celica/Supra/4WD 5-speeds of > yesteryear, so be careful from whence the transmission comes. From the > late `70s until around the mid-`80s, the 5-speeds had a tendency to fail > mainshaft bearings. Toyota was aware of the problem and decided it was > cheaper to just informally extend the warranty on the transmission than > to do a mold and machining change to modify the case for a wider roller > bearing at the front, and continued to use a ball bearing, which wasn't > up to the loads. Oh, and if someone tells you their transmission came > out of the diesel truck and is therefore stronger, that's not > true--those transmissions were the same as the above. > > All that probably does not apply for anything made beyond the mid- to > late-`80s, but there are still lots of the older transmissions in > junkyards, so it's worth remembering. > > To a lesser degree, the same was true of the Corolla 5-speeds of the > time, but they didn't suffer the same rate of failure because they just > couldn't be pushed as hard. Even so, in the sixteen months I was at a > Toyota shop in the early `80s, I did do a bearing replacement on a > Corolla 5-speed with about 30,000 miles on it. > > All that said, though, they're a much better starting point than the GT6 > gearbox.... > > > Cheers. > > -- > > > Michael Porter > Roswell, NM > > > Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking > distance.... > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Catpusher at aol.com Fri Sep 21 16:47:45 2007 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:47:45 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR6 Gearbox Message-ID: I spent quite some time blueprinting the TR3B/6 gearboxes for racing. The late laygear with "c" clips to help retain the (rear) laygear brg. is a good thing, and TRF supplies a slightly longer torrington lay brg, which is also good. I would check the hardness of any new layshaft. With Redline oil, I really flogged this gearbox with fine reliability. Do check and safety wire the top cover wedgelocks. I used the modified CR gearsets from the Dolomite Sprint (can not quite picture TR7 gears in the big TR box) I did run many seasons with the 7 speed overdrive setup before scca allowed alt. gear ratios for the TR3. The Stag gearbox has a 2 diameter layshaft, so there is a larger ID for the 2 rear lay bearings; it also has nifty needle layshaft thrust bearings. Do not believe the stag manual about drifting the layshaft out the front of the case! The standard input shaft is too long for TR use. Hardy ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From JWoesvra at aol.com Fri Sep 21 18:13:08 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 20:13:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: In a message dated 9/21/2007 5:41:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: > While I applaud SVRA for their intent, I feel they have just removed > another layer of "Vintage". > > And to those thinking the Toyota box conversion is the answer, do your > homework on spares availability... > > Happy shifting. I'm not sure who is "lurking" and not naming themselves, but I have an idea. Anyway, SVRA did not "just" remove another layer of "VINTAGE! This transmission rule has been in effect for ten years. Do you guys ever read the stuff I print and post? I guess you don't, Henry...oops. Anyway, I want cars on the track on Sunday. Nothin' I hate worse than seeing TR's or such leaving Friday busted. Almost is bad is looking in a TR guy's trailer and seeing 3 g'boxes lined up "jist 'n case. As long as I have the reins on the tech side of SVRA you can count on reasonable solutions to the ever mounting reliability problems. You can call me whatever you want, that is the way it is. BTW, If you read deep enough, there is also a small weight penalty for changing to a "modern" tranny. If you want to be absolutely pure Vintage then you shouldn't be discussing alternate rods and cranks, alloy HD hubs, specialty gears, etc. How many of you have fake headlights? That wasn't allowed until 1970. What about passenger seats? Had to have one until 1969. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director for 16 years and not ready to retire ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Fri Sep 21 21:08:03 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 20:08:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] grp 44 frt brakes Message-ID: <46F48713.4060408@cyberspeedway.net> Everybody, It turns out that the drawings Rod Kent had were from Group 44 for bigger spindles and bearings to cure the spindle flex problem. The bigger bearings required a bigger hub but it mounted stock rotors. This mod predated SCCA allowing the Jag rotor/caliper combo. I do have some sketches of the bigger spindles and hubs I made for the street toy. They use the Jag rotors because we had so many spares. I also have the sketches of adapters to mount the Sumitomo 300zx calipers. The ZX calipers have huge pistons which help solve the TR pedal ratio shortcomings. The spindles use the stock inner bearing with a Chevy Malibu outer. I can scan the sketches if anybody is interested. They do have most dimensions but they were drawn while being made so I can't guarantee results. (your mileage may vary) Anybody good with Autocad is welcome to clean them up. Greg Lund From walt at hot-tr6.com Fri Sep 21 21:37:13 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:37:13 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Weber Racing Carburetors T- Shirt for FOT members Message-ID: <20070922033755.1317C1879BA@autox.team.net> If you use Weber Carbs on your Triumph, as I do, you might be interested in my limited run of T Shirts. See ebaymotors item # 330168439080. I am offering special pricing to FOT members of $19 per shirt and this includes shipping. If interested please contact me ditectly via email at: walt at hot-tr6.com Give me the size and color you wish. I'll ship you the shirt you can mail me the check. Thank You Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, NM From wgrosenbach at juno.com Fri Sep 21 16:41:05 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:41:05 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Colfax Avenue Cruise and Car Festivals Saturday 9-22, 4-8 PM Message-ID: <20070921.164105.1676.27.wgrosenbach@juno.com> This Saturday, 22-September is the inaugural Colfax Avenue Cruise and Car Festivals. One change has been that for this year anyway, it was not possible to get setup to use any of the sites out West in Lakewood/ Golden for a Festival Site. So the Western-most site will be at a location [coincidentally named] Festival Plaza at 3220 W. Colfax in Denver. Second site is East High School is at 2300 E. Colfax in Denver. The third site is at the Super K-Mart at 15200 W. Colfax in Aurora. See http://www.oldcarcouncil.org/CruiseColfax.html for more information. Participate! As a spectator if not as a driver. KOOL-105 will be at all sites. Spread the word, bring your friends! From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Fri Sep 21 22:38:15 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:38:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox Message-ID: <46F49C37.8000108@cyberspeedway.net> A couple of people mentioned the number of speeds in a TR box referencing that 4 speed + OD = 6 or 7 speeds. Unfortunately, SCCA never recognized the OD as "speeds" until sometime in the 90's. They had wording in the GCR stating that 4 speeds plus OD still equals 4 speeds in the gearbox. This kind of convoluted logic has mostly gone away. We are now allowed 5 speeds. With the torquey big TR motors, using 5 gears would most probably result in lower lap times. Most Production and GT racers are using 1st gear in a 5 speed as a paddock gear. Around PIR, Firebird, and Buttonwillow, using 3 gears is faster than 4 with a lot of close ratio boxes and production engines. Most of us clubbies shift too often and at too high an rpm but it sure sounds good. Sometimes on board data aquisition ruins a good thing. Greg Lund From Catpusher at aol.com Sat Sep 22 00:42:44 2007 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 02:42:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] Subject: Re: gearbox legality Message-ID: Hi FOT and Bill, I will have a real response later, as it is very late here; but just in case Continental drops an aircraft tomorrow: I had no distractions whilst working on BB's gearboxes, not even radio; and they were shipped before requested. I was very impressed that he asked for the very best that I could build. It is also fun to hear thoughts about my workshop. No new customers requested. Hardy In a message dated 9/21/2007 8:08:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: And for what it's worth, my Hardy Prentice-built CR box shifts at least as fast as my dog box, and snicks into gear like a Ferrari transmission. But you need to wait months for Hardy to watch enough television to build one (he stones the gears while he watching TV) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sat Sep 22 03:33:38 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 04:33:38 -0500 Subject: [Fot] grp 44 frt brakes In-Reply-To: <46F48713.4060408@cyberspeedway.net> References: <46F48713.4060408@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <200709220934.l8M9Xwk1157180@ns3.geneseo.net> .............or you might be interested in the kit available on the market to accomplish this, eliminating the need for you to have your local machine shop do it............. At 10:08 PM 9/21/2007, greg wrote: >Everybody, > It turns out that the drawings Rod Kent had were from Group 44 for >bigger spindles and bearings to cure the spindle flex problem. The >bigger bearings required a bigger hub but it mounted stock rotors. This >mod predated SCCA allowing the Jag rotor/caliper combo. I do have some >sketches of the bigger spindles and hubs I made for the street toy. They >use the Jag rotors because we had so many spares. I also have the >sketches of adapters to mount the Sumitomo 300zx calipers. The ZX >calipers have huge pistons which help solve the TR pedal ratio >shortcomings. The spindles use the stock inner bearing with a Chevy >Malibu outer. I can scan the sketches if anybody is interested. They do >have most dimensions but they were drawn while being made so I can't >guarantee results. (your mileage may vary) Anybody good with Autocad is >welcome to clean them up. > >Greg Lund >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From BillDentin at aol.com Sat Sep 22 07:28:44 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:28:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: In a message dated 09/21/2007 4:42:14 PM Central Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: > This is one of those rare occasions when I don't agree with you > Henry. No doubt deliberate shifting is the answer to longevity, and > no doubt the cost of not shifting deliberately should modify > behavior. But it doesn't. There are those folks that can get around a > track pulling everything out of a car without grinding a gear. And > those that can't. You see it at every level of racing--the people > with mysterious mechanical sympathy that never break anything but > still stand on podiums, and the mid-pack folks that can break the > ears off a brass donkey. It's a talent, it's not a conscious decision. > > Mechanics, who also race, tend to have a gentle driving style because they know and think about what it takes to rebuild. Mike Belfer had a smooth gentle style and drove that way. Mike Cataldo, Belfer's racing partner, was the hot shoe in their paddock. He went faster, but then he didn't have to repair the race car. Those of us who don't wrench never really get that. I've seen several Jack Drews in-car video races. Jack's a front runner and I am always amazed at how smooth he drives. Same thing with John Harkness. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillB at bnj.com Sat Sep 22 07:31:30 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:31:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Subject: Re: gearbox legality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I hope you didn't misunderstand, Hardy, I treasure the gearbox you built for me, I consider it cheap at the price, and I have nothing but respect for your experience, your skill and your knowledge. On Sep 22, 2007, at 2:42 AM, Catpusher at aol.com wrote: > Hi FOT and Bill, > > I will have a real response later, as it is very late here; but > just in case Continental drops an aircraft tomorrow: > I had no distractions whilst working on BB's gearboxes, not even > radio; and they were shipped before > requested. I was very impressed that he asked for the very best > that I could build. > It is also fun to hear thoughts about my workshop. No new > customers requested. > > Hardy > > In a message dated 9/21/2007 8:08:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot- > request at autox.team.net writes: > And for what it's worth, my Hardy > Prentice-built CR box shifts at least as fast as my dog box, and > snicks into gear like a Ferrari transmission. But you need to wait > months for Hardy to watch enough television to build one (he stones > the gears while he watching TV) > > > > See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. From billsohl at optonline.net Sat Sep 22 07:59:34 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:59:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] One-Lap TR-250 In-Reply-To: <380-22007952114250178@M2W037.mail2web.com> References: <380-22007952114250178@M2W037.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <3D442CF719594A6299869B2F6FFE1E72@SohlPC> Terrific, I co-drove the 250 with Charles in the '88 event. We finished 15th overall of some 50+ entrants. While there was no special recognition for the fact, we were the highest finishing 2 person entrant...most entrants being 3 person teams. The One-Lap route that year covered 8300 miles in 8 days. Cheers, Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER I will ask Charles... Original Message: ----------------- From: Bill Sohl billsohl at optonline.net Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:18:46 -0400 To: N197TR4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net, Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER It would be great too if Charles (TRF) was able to bring along the '68 TR-250 "One Lap" car that was run in the 86, 87 and 88 one lap events. Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: ; Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:02 PM Subject: [Fot] FOT Appearance @ WATKINS GLEN 2008 SEPTEMBER > FoT List: > > I had a short meeting with Carl Jensen, this weekend. > > He emphasizes that SVRA is looking forward to the FoT being a part of > their > major event in September of next year. > > Triumphs will also be favored Marque at the famous Tour to the Glen and > Running of the Original Street Course. > > Kas & Peg are currently planning to attend as the Guests of the FOT and > our > Grand Marshall. > > The famous Le Mans Triumph TRS will be on hand to act as Honorary Pace > Car > for the Triumph Race. (Courtesy of TRF) > > We have always been treated well as a group by SVRA. Special thanks to > Jack > Woerhle and Carl Jensen. > > It wont hurt to proclaim your 'plan' for attendance so we can get an > indication of the strength of our presence at this event. > > Regards, > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billsohl at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft. Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From henry at henryfrye.com Sat Sep 22 08:27:19 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:27:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACF@server.Triumph.local> I guess it is apparent I don't live and breath the SVRA rules. I have no reason to, with the exception of the engine, my car prep is very basic. The point I was trying to make is I find no issue with the Triumph gearbox. If you build it right and drive it right, it will last. I am sure my gearbox is crude compared to one built by somebody that really knows what they are doing, but it works for me. It shifts slow, it leaks a little oil, but it gets the job done. I understand that because it works for me, that does not mean it will work for everybody. But all the same, I do think since a majority of TR drivers are running the Triumph box successfully, those that invest in the alternate boxes are copping out. Interesting side note, the gearbox rule is found in the General Rules and Regs, so it applies to all SVRA cars, not specifically Triumphs. > -----Original Message----- > From: JWoesvra at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > > This transmission rule has been in effect for ten years. Do > you guys ever read the stuff I print and post? I guess you > don't, Henry...oops. From henry at henryfrye.com Sat Sep 22 08:45:05 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:45:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FAD0@server.Triumph.local> Bill, All good points. While you say we can't get any useful NEW parts, that does not mean we can't find good parts. The only parts that came from the usual parts suppliers in my race gearbox are the seals and gaskets. And guess what, it leaks... I guess since my only experience racing is with my TR4, I don't think it is unreasonable to need to go through a gearbox every couple years. Those who have raced reliable iron probably view that as ridiculous! Cheers > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Babcock [mailto:billb at bnj.com] > Sent: September 21, 2007 5:41 PM > To: Henry Frye > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > > This is one of those rare occasions when I don't agree with > you Henry. No doubt deliberate shifting is the answer to > longevity, and no doubt the cost of not shifting deliberately > should modify behavior. But it doesn't. There are those folks > that can get around a track pulling everything out of a car > without grinding a gear. And those that can't. You see it at > every level of racing--the people with mysterious mechanical > sympathy that never break anything but still stand on > podiums, and the mid-pack folks that can break the ears off a > brass donkey. It's a talent, it's not a conscious decision. > > The TR gearbox is painfully fragile and very expensive to > optimize. > There's fewer of them every day (it's like COBOL > programmers-- thousands will die this year). Even when you > have a really superbly assembled TR box it's life-span in > even a 140 HP TR is relatively short, and there's no useful new parts. > > IMNSHO the idea is to keep racing these cars, not to price > that foolish act beyond the means of the average folks. I'm > all in favor of the compromises that do that. And for what > it's worth, my Hardy Prentice-built CR box shifts at least as > fast as my dog box, and snicks into gear like a Ferrari > transmission. But you need to wait months for Hardy to watch > enough television to build one (he stones the gears while he > watching TV) and when you crate the transmission you might as > well use ten dollar bills for packing material instead of > newspaper, 'cause that's about what it will take. The dog > box is an economy measure (at least that's the story I told > Diane, and I'm sticking with it). From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sat Sep 22 08:53:55 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 07:53:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality References: Message-ID: <002301c7fd28$66ba19e0$0501000a@Chowdown> John Hornbostel must be a smooth driver too. The M. Belfer gearbox has been in the car since at least 1989 and is still going strong. (24 race weekends) hope i didn't jinx it! ~Steve B ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Cc: Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 6:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > In a message dated 09/21/2007 4:42:14 PM Central Daylight Time, > billb at bnj.com > writes: > > >> This is one of those rare occasions when I don't agree with you >> Henry. No doubt deliberate shifting is the answer to longevity, and >> no doubt the cost of not shifting deliberately should modify >> behavior. But it doesn't. There are those folks that can get around a >> track pulling everything out of a car without grinding a gear. And >> those that can't. You see it at every level of racing--the people >> with mysterious mechanical sympathy that never break anything but >> still stand on podiums, and the mid-pack folks that can break the >> ears off a brass donkey. It's a talent, it's not a conscious decision. >> >> > > Mechanics, who also race, tend to have a gentle driving style because they > know and think about what it takes to rebuild. Mike Belfer had a smooth > gentle > style and drove that way. Mike Cataldo, Belfer's racing partner, was the > hot > shoe in their paddock. He went faster, but then he didn't have to repair > the > race car. > > Those of us who don't wrench never really get that. I've seen several > Jack > Drews in-car video races. Jack's a front runner and I am always amazed at > how > smooth he drives. Same thing with John Harkness. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From scypher at usa.com Sat Sep 22 09:28:26 2007 From: scypher at usa.com (Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer)) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:28:26 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox In-Reply-To: <46F49C37.8000108@cyberspeedway.net> References: <46F49C37.8000108@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <0E19F35A-DA7D-4451-8A34-CD5F615B3B76@usa.com> Production GCR authorized modifications D.4.a.1 still reads 4 speed + OD = 4 speed unless the cars spec line allows it....Other categories may be different... Not that I wouldn't mind trying a 5spd....but I don't have an exemption on my spec line like the EP class triumphs do..... Thanks -S Scott Cypher SCCA # 362573 #57 HP Spitfire 1500 From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Sat Sep 22 10:35:12 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:35:12 -0500 Subject: [Fot] test Message-ID: <000001c7fd36$8c95b030$8d20b348@blake1> Testing an email filter From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Sat Sep 22 09:55:27 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:55:27 -0700 Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] Message-ID: <46F53AEF.4080307@cyberspeedway.net> I stand corrected. Sorry about that. I broke a cardinal rule of a tech inspector - consult the GCR not your memory. Have any Spitfire guys petitioned the Club Racing Board for a 5 speed? Citing the TR6 as a precedent is a BIG foot in the door. It does away with that "philosophy of class" stonewalling. Greg Lund -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:28:26 -0400 From: Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer) To: greg CC: FOT LIST References: <46F49C37.8000108 at cyberspeedway.net> Production GCR authorized modifications D.4.a.1 still reads 4 speed + OD = 4 speed unless the cars spec line allows it....Other categories may be different... Not that I wouldn't mind trying a 5spd....but I don't have an exemption on my spec line like the EP class triumphs do..... Thanks -S Scott Cypher SCCA # 362573 #57 HP Spitfire 1500 From fpspitfire at insightbb.com Sat Sep 22 10:12:41 2007 From: fpspitfire at insightbb.com (fpspitfire at insightbb.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:12:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] In-Reply-To: <46F53AEF.4080307@cyberspeedway.net> References: <46F53AEF.4080307@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: The Big TR's (and MGB, and a few others) were allowed 5 speeds because every other car in EP was given a 5 speed, this might have also coincided with the combination of C/D/E production. There is no precedence in the small bore classes for gearboxes other than the original forward speeds. This was evident when they did a carte blanche move of the MGB to FP a couple years ago. The original move received much badness (me included as I was running F at the time) and the decision was made to remove the 5 speed allowance for the MGB. FWIW, I don't think a 5 speed is necessary...the 5th gear would be 1st and it would be a pit/paddock gear and nothing more. It might help save the clutch a little bit, but I wouldn't use it on the track. Aaron ----- Original Message ----- From: greg Date: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:59 Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] To: FOT LIST > I stand corrected. Sorry about that. I broke a > cardinal rule of a > tech inspector - consult the GCR not your memory. Have any > Spitfire guys > petitioned the Club Racing Board for a 5 speed? Citing the TR6 > as a > precedent is a BIG foot in the door. It does away with that > "philosophy > of class" stonewalling. > > Greg Lund > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox > Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:28:26 -0400 > From: Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer) > To: greg > CC: FOT LIST > References: <46F49C37.8000108 at cyberspeedway.net> > > Production GCR authorized modifications D.4.a.1 still reads > 4 speed + OD = 4 speed unless the cars spec line allows it....Other > categories may be different... > > Not that I wouldn't mind trying a 5spd....but I don't have an > exemption on my spec line like the EP class triumphs do..... > > Thanks > -S > > Scott Cypher > SCCA # 362573 > #57 HP Spitfire 1500 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > fpspitfire at insightbb.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Sat Sep 22 10:14:37 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:14:37 EDT Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: "But all the same, I do think since a majority of TR drivers are running the Triumph box successfully, those that invest in the alternate boxes are copping out." If one does his homework & has the ability & budget to allow, there are a few gearbox options that are better shifting, reliable, better weights (including rotating), & have better ratios. That's an ADVANTAGE, period, especially in the hands of a good driver. I've said it many times, this is exactly what happened to SCCA production (albeit for some different reasons) & drove the costs to be competitive out of reach for the average guy/gal. At a certain point, it's just a Triumph-facsimile. Glen with Stanpart gearboxes ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad range of racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own interpretation of "vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & their job is to keep everybody happy. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 22 10:49:50 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <639156.15095.qm@web57614.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad range of racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own interpretation of "vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & their job is to keep everybody happy. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Sat Sep 22 11:35:45 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:35:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] In-Reply-To: References: <46F53AEF.4080307@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <46F55271.8080809@cyberspeedway.net> I agree. We never considered a 5 speed for the 6. We ran a Mag case Jerico with Kas's old close ratio splits. Some tracke we only used 3 of the 4 gears. BTW the Mag case Jerico is only about 5 pounds more than the TR6 box. The trouble is the shift linkage intrudes on the left side and reduces leg room drastically. Rod wore a big kneepad on his right leg to keep the bruises down. If I did this again I would look at rotating the box 90 degrees and using the MVE shifter. I would also use the thin qualifying gearsets to reduce the weight and rotating mass. Jericos are all over Ebay now. Greg Lund fpspitfire at insightbb.com wrote: > The Big TR's (and MGB, and a few others) were allowed 5 speeds because every other car in EP was given a 5 speed, this might have also coincided with the combination of C/D/E production. > > There is no precedence in the small bore classes for gearboxes other than the original forward speeds. This was evident when they did a carte blanche move of the MGB to FP a couple years ago. The original move received much badness (me included as I was running F at the time) and the decision was made to remove the 5 speed allowance for the MGB. > > FWIW, I don't think a 5 speed is necessary...the 5th gear would be 1st and it would be a pit/paddock gear and nothing more. It might help save the clutch a little bit, but I wouldn't use it on the track. > > Aaron > ----- Original Message ----- > From: greg > Date: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:59 > Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] > To: FOT LIST > >> I stand corrected. Sorry about that. I broke a >> cardinal rule of a >> tech inspector - consult the GCR not your memory. Have any >> Spitfire guys >> petitioned the Club Racing Board for a 5 speed? Citing the TR6 >> as a >> precedent is a BIG foot in the door. It does away with that >> "philosophy >> of class" stonewalling. >> >> Greg Lund >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox >> Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:28:26 -0400 >> From: Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer) >> To: greg >> CC: FOT LIST >> References: <46F49C37.8000108 at cyberspeedway.net> >> >> Production GCR authorized modifications D.4.a.1 still reads >> 4 speed + OD = 4 speed unless the cars spec line allows it....Other >> categories may be different... >> >> Not that I wouldn't mind trying a 5spd....but I don't have an >> exemption on my spec line like the EP class triumphs do..... >> >> Thanks >> -S >> >> Scott Cypher >> SCCA # 362573 >> #57 HP Spitfire 1500 >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> fpspitfire at insightbb.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fpspitfire at insightbb.com Sat Sep 22 13:02:33 2007 From: fpspitfire at insightbb.com (fpspitfire at insightbb.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 14:02:33 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: References: <200709211316.l8LDGXXW445214@ns3.geneseo.net> <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FACC@server.Triumph.local> <1D27710E-D176-43BF-AFBE-61E66698A5C8@bnj.com> <46F44016.2080208@dfn.com> <008001c7fc9f$2fb047f0$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: Date: Friday, September 21, 2007 21:37 Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality To: Bob Cc: mdporter at dfn.com,Bill Babcock ,Young Randall ,fot at autox.team.net > FWIW... > I run a Gearbox that looks almost identical to the Spitfire box > on the outside. However, it is an aluminium case with > Hewland Mk9 gearsets and dog engagment inside. It uses a > modified input, output and layshaft and is far beefier than > anything else out there. Plus you get the added bonus of > being able to select any ratios you want. > > If you have questions contact me. > > Not sure if that type of conversion is legal in vintage, but it > sure is in SCCA :) > > aaron > > Aaron Johnson > #8 (for now) HP Spitfire 1500 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bob > Date: Friday, September 21, 2007 17:31 > Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > To: mdporter at dfn.com, Bill Babcock > Cc: Young Randall , fot at autox.team.net > > > This GT6 has a T50 5 speed so can't say much about the others > > (besides the > > others are much larger and heavier than the T50). However, > they > > did modify > > the front of the T50 case to accept a larger input shaft ball > > bearing > > assembly in the later gearboxes which was supposed to help. > When > > buying > > spare parts (which are readily available if you know where to > > look) you need > > to know which box you have. > > > > I have looked inside 100K gearboxes and 50K gearboxes. > Bearings > > show little > > or no wear in either. Even the syncro's are still good and > > Granny drove the > > car for 20 years. > > > > Used gearboxes are everywhere for $150-$200. Really good ones > > from Japan are > > $500-$1000. A variety of close ratio gear sets are available > if > > you look > > hard > > . > > I know I will get hammered for saying this.....but most of us > > are just > > wannabe drivers anyway (me included) and how much advantage > will > > the gearbox > > really give you. It will sure keep you on the track longer and > > seeing the > > cars on the track is really the fun for alot of us. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Michael Porter" > > To: "Bill Babcock" > > Cc: ; "Young Randall" > > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 > 6:05 PM > > Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > > > > > > > Bill Babcock wrote: > > >> Toyota gearboxes are as common as belly buttons, and most have > > >> minimal wear on them. The Japanese have interesting > licensing and > > >> inspection laws that ensure the domestic cars turn over > frequently.> >> The drivetrains are frequently exported to the > US. It would be > > >> unusual to rebuild one--you can get a replacement for next to > > >> nothing. I paid a hundred bucks for two from 2TG toyotas-- > of course > > >> that was four years ago. I pulled them apart to check the typical > > >> wear areas and they were indistinguishable from new. From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sat Sep 22 13:41:45 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 14:41:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <639156.15095.qm@web57614.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <639156.15095.qm@web57614.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200709221942.l8MJg5sd256700@ns3.geneseo.net> No, we're just shifting into high gear........... At 11:49 AM 9/22/2007, Ernest Husmann wrote: >Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? > > >Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad range of >racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own interpretation of >"vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & their job is >to keep everybody happy. > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com >ehusmann53 at yahoo.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > >--------------------------------- > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sat Sep 22 13:59:08 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 13:59:08 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions Message-ID: <000401c7fd53$09c33750$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Can anyone suggest a good plug for my car ? I'm just short of 11:1 compresson, MSD 7AL-2 ignition, MSD HVC-2 coil D spec cam & stock strombergs. MSD suggests .050 gap for this set up & CR regardless of the plug type. Does this sound right ? Thanks again, Jim Gray From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sat Sep 22 15:05:53 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 17:05:53 EDT Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: TR6 gearbox] Message-ID: fpspitfire at insightbb.com Wrote: BTW the Mag case Jerico is only about 5 pounds more than the TR6 box. The trouble is the shift linkage intrudes on the left side and reduces leg room drastically. Rod wore a big kneepad on his right leg to keep the bruises down. If I did this again I would look at rotating the box 90 degrees and using the MVE shifter. I would also use the thin qualifying gearsets to reduce the weight and rotating mass. Jericos are all over Ebay now. Greg Lund So, convert your left-hooker Triumph back to the Right-Hand Steer that it was designed to be all along, end of problem! As another advantage, if that pesky flywheel should ever come loose, then they inavariably head for the Left side footwell... And what does it matter which side of the car the steering is on if it is a track only car? Everyone else is (usually) going in the same direction! Even if racecaR is the same spelled forwards or backwards! Regards Leon Triumph Vitesse Cv, Right-Hand Steer! From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sat Sep 22 15:50:59 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:50:59 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser failures Message-ID: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> I'm trying to get through to the Mallory tech people to share our frustration with them, but in the meantime I uncovered their document 1484M which is too long to attach but I will excerpt it: IF THE POINTS BURN UP OR THE CONDENSER FAILS FREQUENTLY: 1.Condenser failure is often due a grounding problem. Make sure surfaces are free of grease, oil, etc 2. If the condenser needs changing, make sure that the bracket is changed at the same time. The brackets are basically a one-use part. They are designed to scratch through the rust preventative coating on the condenser when it is installed. Scuffing off this coating will guarantee a good ground. 3. -- grounds 4. A simple ground strap from the distributor body to the block can solve the problem. The distributor clamp is not a reliable ground. Also, interestingly, a section entitled IF THE POINTS ARE CONTINUALLY OUT OF ADJUSTMENT 1. lateral movement of the shaft means the distributor has to be rebuilt 2. Confirm that the point set is not designed for racing only with excessive spring tension. This increases rubbing block wear even when properly lubricated. Huh. Ididn't know there were two series of points. uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 22 17:35:35 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <200709221942.l8MJg5sd256700@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <189720.65800.qm@web57603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> It's amazing how these threads get off the subject so quickly. This one started Thursday morning with Alan asking for advice on TR6 gearboxes but quickly turn to a discussion related to rules regarding car prep. It's fine for a short time but we're not going to change the rules on the FoT mail list; at least I don't think we have that much power? Enjoy, E. PS. Would that be 5th gear, 4th gear overdrive, or are we now running 6-speeds? Hey I'm not a purist. "Jack W. Drews" wrote: No, we're just shifting into high gear........... At 11:49 AM 9/22/2007, Ernest Husmann wrote: >Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? > > >Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad range of >racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own interpretation of >"vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & their job is >to keep everybody happy. > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com >ehusmann53 at yahoo.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > >--------------------------------- > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. From billb at bnj.com Sat Sep 22 18:02:35 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 20:02:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: <189720.65800.qm@web57603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <189720.65800.qm@web57603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Clearly you need to change your mental metaphor for the FOT. It's like a bunch of racers at the bar in Siebken's The topics might start from a rational observation--like "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door". And quickly transform into a discussion of whether or not it is morally reprehensible to use a Mallory distributor. It's a good thing. And of course we have the power. All we have to do is universally agree on something. I'm not holding my breath. On Sep 22, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Ernest Husmann wrote: > It's amazing how these threads get off the subject so quickly. > This one started Thursday morning with Alan asking for advice on > TR6 gearboxes but quickly turn to a discussion related to rules > regarding car prep. It's fine for a short time but we're not going > to change the rules on the FoT mail list; at least I don't think we > have that much power? > > Enjoy, > > E. > > PS. Would that be 5th gear, 4th gear overdrive, or are we now > running 6-speeds? Hey I'm not a purist. > > "Jack W. Drews" wrote: > No, we're just shifting into high gear........... > > At 11:49 AM 9/22/2007, Ernest Husmann wrote: > >Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? > > > > > >Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad > range of > >racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own > interpretation of > >"vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & > their job is > >to keep everybody happy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's new at http:// > www.aol.com > >ehusmann53 at yahoo.com > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > uncle jack > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > > > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. From billbab at mac.com Sat Sep 22 07:52:34 2007 From: billbab at mac.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:52:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Subject: Re: gearbox legality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4169A5BF-C905-420D-A519-247C24B29E1E@mac.com> A little more clarification. I'm a writer. Worse yet I'm a guy who learned to write by writing advertising--in other words I BS'd for a living. Even though I don't do it for money any more I automatically fluff up facts to create mental pictures that illustrate a point, and the point I was making was that good TR transmissions are rare, expensive, and take a lot of time to build--which makes them less a solution for racers who are making hard decisions about where to spend their bucks. You did tell me that you liked to deburr the gears while you watched television, but I certainly wasn't implying distraction--just that it takes a lot of tedious work to make one of these boxes work so well. If I even momentarily hurt your feelings then I am crushed. You are one of my heros. On Sep 22, 2007, at 9:31 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I hope you didn't misunderstand, Hardy, I treasure the gearbox you > built for me, I consider it cheap at the price, and I have nothing > but respect for your experience, your skill and your knowledge. > > On Sep 22, 2007, at 2:42 AM, Catpusher at aol.com wrote: > >> Hi FOT and Bill, >> >> I will have a real response later, as it is very late here; but >> just in case Continental drops an aircraft tomorrow: >> I had no distractions whilst working on BB's gearboxes, not even >> radio; and they were shipped before >> requested. I was very impressed that he asked for the very best >> that I could build. >> It is also fun to hear thoughts about my workshop. No new >> customers requested. >> >> Hardy >> >> In a message dated 9/21/2007 8:08:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot- >> request at autox.team.net writes: >> And for what it's worth, my Hardy >> Prentice-built CR box shifts at least as fast as my dog box, and >> snicks into gear like a Ferrari transmission. But you need to wait >> months for Hardy to watch enough television to build one (he stones >> the gears while he watching TV) >> >> >> >> See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. From mlcooknj at msn.com Sat Sep 22 19:49:29 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:49:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: To Bill B- I'm glad you wrote that other message stating that you are a writer. "bandoleer of bachelorettes" is quite a metaphor. Maybe instead of arguing the merits of which gearboxes will stand up best to the worst shifting, we can discuss the moral aspects of stuffing young ladies into the pockets of a cartridge belt and wearing them. Mike Cook ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 8:16 PM To: Ernest Husmann Cc: fot at autox.team.net; Fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality Clearly you need to change your mental metaphor for the FOT. It's like a bunch of racers at the bar in Siebken's The topics might start from a rational observation--like "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door". And quickly transform into a discussion of whether or not it is morally reprehensible to use a Mallory distributor. It's a good thing. And of course we have the power. All we have to do is universally agree on something. I'm not holding my breath. On Sep 22, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Ernest Husmann wrote: > It's amazing how these threads get off the subject so quickly. > This one started Thursday morning with Alan asking for advice on > TR6 gearboxes but quickly turn to a discussion related to rules > regarding car prep. It's fine for a short time but we're not going > to change the rules on the FoT mail list; at least I don't think we > have that much power? > > Enjoy, > > E. > > PS. Would that be 5th gear, 4th gear overdrive, or are we now > running 6-speeds? Hey I'm not a purist. > > "Jack W. Drews" wrote: > No, we're just shifting into high gear........... > > At 11:49 AM 9/22/2007, Ernest Husmann wrote: > >Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? > > > > > >Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad > range of > >racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own > interpretation of > >"vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & > their job is > >to keep everybody happy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's new at http:// > www.aol.com > >ehusmann53 at yahoo.com > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > uncle jack > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > > > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. mlcooknj at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sat Sep 22 21:06:17 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 23:06:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50FBCA58-BCEA-4FFD-83E1-3D0478BAEFA4@bnj.com> Not really a metaphor. Those who were at Siebkins during the spring race (I think it was an SVRA one, but I'm sure someone will set me straight if I was wrong) may be acquainted with the bandolier of bachelorettes. A fine bevy of young ladies showed up wearing strangely colored wigs with a chaperone who seemed to be more likely to get into deep trouble than her charges. They danced like wild druids, held BS Levy up when he did a kind of matlock-style stage dive into their midst, and performed a chair dance on one of the mechanics in the middle of the dance floor. Then returned to Green Bay, leaving a trail of broken hearts. On Sep 22, 2007, at 9:49 PM, michael cook wrote: > To Bill B- > > I'm glad you wrote that other message stating that you are a > writer. "bandoleer of bachelorettes" is quite a metaphor. Maybe > instead of arguing the merits of which gearboxes will stand up best > to the worst shifting, we can discuss the moral aspects of stuffing > young ladies into the pockets of a cartridge belt and wearing them. > > Mike Cook > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Babcock > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 8:16 PM > To: Ernest Husmann > Cc: fot at autox.team.net; Fubog1 at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > > Clearly you need to change your mental metaphor for the FOT. It's > like a bunch of racers at the bar in Siebken's The topics might start > from a rational observation--like "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of > bachelorettes just walked in the door". And quickly transform into a > discussion of whether or not it is morally reprehensible to use a > Mallory distributor. > > It's a good thing. > > And of course we have the power. All we have to do is universally > agree on something. I'm not holding my breath. > > On Sep 22, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Ernest Husmann wrote: > > > It's amazing how these threads get off the subject so quickly. > > This one started Thursday morning with Alan asking for advice on > > TR6 gearboxes but quickly turn to a discussion related to rules > > regarding car prep. It's fine for a short time but we're not going > > to change the rules on the FoT mail list; at least I don't think we > > have that much power? > > > > Enjoy, > > > > E. > > > > PS. Would that be 5th gear, 4th gear overdrive, or are we now > > running 6-speeds? Hey I'm not a purist. > > > > "Jack W. Drews" wrote: > > No, we're just shifting into high gear........... > > > > At 11:49 AM 9/22/2007, Ernest Husmann wrote: > > >Hear hear Have we not yet driven this subject into the ground? > > > > > > > > >Fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > > ps-JackW & crew are doing a great job when you consider the broad > > range of > > >racers that he has to accommodate. Everyone has their own > > interpretation of > > >"vintage racing" & different levels of prep & driving ability, & > > their job is > > >to keep everybody happy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's new at http:// > > www.aol.com > > >ehusmann53 at yahoo.com > > >Fot mailing list > > >Fot at autox.team.net > > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > > Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. > > >_______________________________________________ > > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net > > >Fot mailing list > > >Fot at autox.team.net > > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > uncle jack > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > > No Virus Found In This Message > > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > > > > > > Got a little couch potato? > > Check out fun summer activities for kids. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > mlcooknj at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Robertten1 at aol.com Sat Sep 22 23:14:59 2007 From: Robertten1 at aol.com (Robertten1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 01:14:59 EDT Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser failures Message-ID: Amici, This is an old topic and I feel a need to confirm what the Mallory site is suggesting. I had a bit of a discussion with a friend of mine whom is a electronics wizard, by trade. He said the first fault of any condensor failure would be due to a poor ground or lack of. My inquiry was brought about over the decision to go back to a points type ignition, that being a Mallory unit. After hearing Lang's problem of one condensor failure after another with his Mallory I became conserned with going from one problematic ignition system to another. I converted anyways, bought a couple extra condensors but, have had no problems what-so-ever with my Mallory. Several inspections and several tests with a dwell meter have shown a very reliable system. I'm also using a MSD Soft-touch Rev-limiter which has proven a reliable compliment to the Mallory. To sum it up ... Good Grounding !! add an extra as the Mallory site recommends. Bob T. '64 Spit GT autocrosser PS my Mallory is 6 yrs old ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sun Sep 23 02:43:51 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 03:43:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Re: gearbox legality Message-ID: <200709230844.l8N8iBdN359396@ns3.geneseo.net> >Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 03:38:24 -0500 >To: Ernest Husmann >From: "Jack W. Drews" >Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality > >I agree that the subject was well thrashed, but at least it was on a >subject this list was intended for, instead of some of the subjects >discussed ad nauseum that really should be on the "big" Triumph >list. It provided some emails good for forwarding to VSCDA officers >who don't monitor these lists. One could argue that installing a >different transmission for better reliability is no different than >installing a Mallory distributor, the only purpose of which is to >replace Lucas stuff. Hey, all Lucas pieces can be made to work for a >little while. > >Ditto Southwick axles. We could force everybody to replace rear >axles every third race, just like Kastner did, to keep from rolling >over. His cars were pretty reliable doing things like that. Why >can't we do the same thing? If a car a year rolls over and nobody is >hurt, is it a small price to pay for authenticity? > >At 06:35 PM 9/22/2007, you wrote: >>It's amazing how these threads get off the subject so quickly. > >uncle jack uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From Fubog1 at aol.com Sun Sep 23 04:16:27 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 06:16:27 EDT Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality Message-ID: In a message dated 9/22/2007 8:17:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door" I'm having trouble with the mental image but it has a nice ring to it... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From tlizzard at msn.com Sun Sep 23 08:03:30 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:03:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality References: Message-ID: As long as the calibre is not too large its all good... Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: Fubog1 at aol.com To: billb at bnj.com ; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 6:16 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality In a message dated 9/22/2007 8:17:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door" I'm having trouble with the mental image but it has a nice ring to it... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Sun Sep 23 08:13:03 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:13:03 EDT Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality diverted to bob thread Message-ID: "bandolier of bachelorettes" well to take this one a step further...it just begs the question... are they on stripper clips??? Glen sorry but somebody HAD to ask... In a message dated 9/23/2007 10:03:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tlizzard at msn.com writes: As long as the calibre is not too large its all good... Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: _Fubog1 at aol.com_ (mailto:Fubog1 at aol.com) To: _billb at bnj.com_ (mailto:billb at bnj.com) ; _ehusmann53 at yahoo.com_ (mailto:ehusmann53 at yahoo.com) Cc: _fot at autox.team.net_ (mailto:fot at autox.team.net) Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 6:16 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality In a message dated 9/22/2007 8:17:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, _billb at bnj.com_ (mailto:billb at bnj.com) writes: "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door" I'm having trouble with the mental image but it has a nice ring to it... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 23 09:20:22 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:20:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Message-ID: FoT, I am looking for someone to write a progressive series of 'press releases' over the next 10 months...about three should do it. This event has some real magic associated with it. We are not as organized at the MG guys, but we can still look good. Ideally, the writer of the press release will also be an attendee. Thanks, Joe Alexander From JWoesvra at aol.com Sun Sep 23 09:33:27 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:33:27 EDT Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Message-ID: In a message dated 9/23/2007 11:20:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N197TR4 at cs.com writes: FoT, I am looking for someone to write a progressive series of 'press releases' over the next 10 months...about three should do it. This event has some real magic associated with it. We are not as organized at the MG guys, but we can still look good. Ideally, the writer of the press release will also be an attendee. Thanks, Joe Alexander Take a look at the Elva reunion release that we just posted. _http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/weblinks/EJEN-77AJFT?OpenDocument_ (http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/weblinks/EJEN-77AJFT?OpenDocument) You might also look at the press releases that MGVR guys do. To: Friends of MGVR MG Vintage Racers Press Release ************************************ Vintage Collier Cup MG Race FIVE MGs Win Awards It all began in 1985 with SVRA's Collier Cup race for MGs at their Zippo Vintage Grand Prix, and it has steadily gathered momentum over the years. At first there was only the "Collier Cup" award for this race, which gets awarded to a MG racer in the race - voted by the MG racers there - as best representing the MG vintage racing spirit. Then came the "Denver Cornett Jr. Trophy" for the first overall MG in the race, and the "T Cup" for the first place T series MG in the race. NAMGAR later added the "Bucher-Decker Trophy" for the first MGA. And now to round out the awards, this year the MG Car Club - Western New York Center added the "Bill Glanville Memorial Cup" for the first MG Midget in the race. And Bill's widow Suzanne made its inaugural presentation. This is just a reflection of how popular this race has grown over 22 years. And although this year's event didn't see the best weather, that didn't slow down the MG enthusiasm and racing. 37 MGs of all types showed up to have a go of it this September at Watkins Glen, and when the checkered flag fell the honors went to the following MG racers: -Collier Cup - Bill Shields, Pa, MGB -Denver Cornett Jr. Trophy - John Targett, Oh, MGB -T Cup - Jeff Brown, Pa, MGTD -Bucher-Decker Trophy - Joe Tierno, N.Y., MGA -Bill Glanville Memorial Cup - Gregg Kuzuhowski, N.J., MG Midget John commented on receiving his trophy "I had an emotional reaction to receiving Denver's Cup. For some reason he repeatedly use to say that he wanted me to win his trophy" (Denver passed away in 2006). Gregg reflected "I was honored to accept the Glanville trophy". The MGTD that Jeff raced was the former Bob Colaizzi MG that won the first Vintage Collier Cup in 1985. And Joe Tierno's MGA is the same MGA that Bob Bucher won the 1957 Collier Cup with 50 years ago! It just keeps getting better and better! ****************** end For Immediate Release and Publication -Please run this article in your publication -This press release may be edited to meet publisher's needs -Please forward this press release to anyone else who might have interest in it Photo below is of Gregg Kuzuhowski with the Bill Glanville Memorial Cup, ,with Suzanne Glanville, widow of Bill Glanville, next to him. Photo may be used with article as long as photo credit is given: "Pietrowicz Photo". MG Vintage Racers Greg Prehodka Publicity Coordinator September 23, 2007 E-mail: _MGracer53 at aol.com_ (mailto:MGracer53 at aol.com) MGVR on the web: MGVR.org ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 23 09:47:05 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:47:05 EDT Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Message-ID: Thanks Jack!....great resource material. > In a message dated 9/23/2007 11:20:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > N197TR4 at cs.com writes: > > >> FoT, >> >> I am looking for someone to write a progressive series of 'press releases' >> over the next 10 months...about three should do it. >> >> This event has some real magic associated with it. >> >> We are not as organized at the MG guys, but we can still look good. >> >> Ideally, the writer of the press release will also be an attendee. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Joe Alexander > > > Take a look at the Elva reunion release that we just posted. > > http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/weblinks/EJEN-77AJFT?OpenDocument > > You might also look at the press releases that MGVR guys do. > > To: Friends of MGVR > > MG Vintage Racers > Press Release > > ************************************ > > Vintage Collier Cup MG Race > FIVE MGs Win Awards > > It all began in 1985 with SVRA's Collier Cup race for MGs at their Zippo > Vintage Grand Prix, and it has steadily gathered momentum over the years. > At first there was only the "Collier Cup" award for this race, which gets > awarded to a MG racer in the race - voted by the MG racers there - as best > representing the MG vintage racing spirit. Then came the "Denver Cornett Jr. Trophy > " for the first overall MG in the race, and the "T Cup" for the first place > T series MG in the race. NAMGAR later added the "Bucher-Decker Trophy" for > the first MGA. And now to round out the awards, this year the MG Car Club - > Western New York Center added the "Bill Glanville Memorial Cup" for the first > MG Midget in the race. And Bill's widow Suzanne made its inaugural > presentation. This is just a reflection of how popular this race has grown over 22 > years. And although this year's event didn't see the best weather, that didn't > slow down the MG enthusiasm and racing. 37 MGs of all types showed up to > have a go of it this September at Watkins Glen, and when the checkered flag > fell the honors went to the following MG racers: > > -Collier Cup - Bill Shields, Pa, MGB > -Denver Cornett Jr. Trophy - John Targett, Oh, MGB > -T Cup - Jeff Brown, Pa, MGTD > -Bucher-Decker Trophy - Joe Tierno, N.Y., MGA > -Bill Glanville Memorial Cup - Gregg Kuzuhowski, N.J., MG Midget > > John commented on receiving his trophy "I had an emotional reaction to > receiving Denver's Cup. For some reason he repeatedly use to say that he wanted > me to win his trophy" (Denver passed away in 2006). Gregg reflected "I was > honored to accept the Glanville trophy". The MGTD that Jeff raced was the > former Bob Colaizzi MG that won the first Vintage Collier Cup in 1985. And Joe > Tierno's MGA is the same MGA that Bob Bucher won the 1957 Collier Cup with > 50 years ago! It just keeps getting better and better! > > ****************** end > > > For Immediate Release and Publication > -Please run this article in your publication > -This press release may be edited to meet publisher's needs > -Please forward this press release to anyone else who might have interest in > it > > Photo below is of Gregg Kuzuhowski with the Bill Glanville Memorial Cup, > ,with Suzanne Glanville, widow of Bill Glanville, next to him. Photo may be > used with article as long as photo credit is given: "Pietrowicz Photo". > > > > From Cofrog at aol.com Sun Sep 23 10:20:43 2007 From: Cofrog at aol.com (Cofrog at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:20:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers Message-ID: I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange thickness on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake manifold flange where both mount to the head. Some tabs have been welded to the flange of the header where the mounting points are to accommodate the thickness discrepancy But I am experiencing cracks in the intake manifold and blame this on the above. I did some track time last week to test a new motor and another intake manifold crack appeared. I have applied some JB Weld to it and loosened the mounting hardware by it. Hoping this "fix" will hold for the RMVR event nest weekend. Any input? Has anyone had any experience with the headers that the big three sell? Or does anyone have a good set of headers that they want to sell? Thanks, Dan Forgey ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 23 10:33:53 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:33:53 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers References: Message-ID: <001001c7fdff$95868f60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Dan, My first car had a setup like this. It used standard wing spacers (or whatever they are called) with weld added on one side. That worked fine, but it was a short runner intake. You have probably already addressed this but just in case; the problem of cracking usually shows up with the use of the long runner intake without support on the bottom like the original exhaust manifold. You see some pretty creative gussets out there. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 11:20 AM Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers >I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange thickness > on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake > manifold flange where both mount to the head. Some tabs have been welded > to the > flange of the header where the mounting points are to accommodate the > thickness > discrepancy But I am experiencing cracks in the intake manifold and > blame > this on the above. > > I did some track time last week to test a new motor and another intake > manifold crack appeared. I have applied some JB Weld to it and loosened > the > mounting hardware by it. Hoping this "fix" will hold for the RMVR event > nest > weekend. Any input? > > Has anyone had any experience with the headers that the big three sell? > Or > does anyone have a good set of headers that they want to sell? > > Thanks, > > Dan Forgey > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jhassall at blacksburg.net Sun Sep 23 10:36:34 2007 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:36:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46F69612.5050804@blacksburg.net> Cofrog at aol.com wrote: > I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange thickness > on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake > manifold flange where both mount to the head. Some tabs have been welded to the > flange of the header where the mounting points are to accommodate the thickness > discrepancy But I am experiencing cracks in the intake manifold and blame > this on the above. > > I did some track time last week to test a new motor and another intake > manifold crack appeared. I have applied some JB Weld to it and loosened the > mounting hardware by it. Hoping this "fix" will hold for the RMVR event nest > weekend. Any input? > > Has anyone had any experience with the headers that the big three sell? Or > does anyone have a good set of headers that they want to sell? Dan, I bought TRF's tubular headers years ago and HATE them. Shoddy workmanship, leaky welds, flange thickness half that of the intake (as you noted), gross mounting hole mismatches, the list goes on. I didn't discover the problems until long after TRF would accept them back, so I bit the bullet. In retrospect, they should have gone 1) to metal recyclers or 2) ebay. I worked around the flange thickness problem by welding a block of steel to the exhaust stud clamps, so I *think* I have uniform pressure on each side. Time will tell.... hth jim -- J.C. Hassall Blacksburg VA 64 TR4 in autox preparation 95% finished, 90% to go From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 23 13:07:43 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 14:07:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c7fe15$05c826c0$8d20b348@blake1> Try Stahl. http://www.stahlheaders.com/ When I was asking around about 6 months ago, some on the list recommended them. My project has stalled somewhat so I have not purchased yet. I am still looking also if anyone has a set to sell. Thanks, Greg -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Cofrog at aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 11:21 AM To: FOT at Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange thickness on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake manifold flange where both mount to the head. Some tabs have been welded to the flange of the header where the mounting points are to accommodate the thickness discrepancy But I am experiencing cracks in the intake manifold and blame this on the above. I did some track time last week to test a new motor and another intake manifold crack appeared. I have applied some JB Weld to it and loosened the mounting hardware by it. Hoping this "fix" will hold for the RMVR event nest weekend. Any input? Has anyone had any experience with the headers that the big three sell? Or does anyone have a good set of headers that they want to sell? Thanks, Dan Forgey ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ablake2 at austin.rr.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Sun Sep 23 13:40:56 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:40:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers Message-ID: In a message dated 9/23/2007 12:21:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Cofrog at aol.com writes: Has anyone had any experience with the headers that the big three sell? Or does anyone have a good set of headers that they want to sell? Ken Gillanders BFE headers work well, last a long time, & are a bit pricey, but well worth it in the long run. Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From emanteno at comcast.net Sun Sep 23 14:40:40 2007 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:40:40 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers Message-ID: <092320072040.3702.46F6CF4800088CA300000E762205886014970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: Cofrog at aol.com > I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange thickness > on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake > manifold flange where both mount to the head. I bought a set of headers from Ken at BFE in 98, and it and my (reinforced) intake manifold have been trouble free since. The headers fit great, requiring no diddling to install. The (long runner) intake manifold is reinforced on the top of each runner, and has never shown any sign of trouble. NFI, Irv Korey From Robertten1 at aol.com Sun Sep 23 14:49:20 2007 From: Robertten1 at aol.com (Robertten1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:49:20 EDT Subject: [Fot] Why MEN don't Write Advice Columns Message-ID: ____________________________________ >>>> Subject: WHY MEN DO NOT WRITE ADVICE COLUMNS >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dear Walter: >>>>> I hope you can help me here. The other day I set off for work leaving >>>>> my husband in the house watching the TV as usual. I hadn't gone more than >>>>> a few hundred yards down the road when my engine conked out and the car >>>> shuddered to a halt. I walked back home to get my husband's help. When I got >>>>> home I couldn't believe my eyes. He was parading in front of the wardrobe >>>>> mirror dressed in my underwear and high-heel shoes, and he was wearing my >>>>> make up. >>>>> I am 32, my husband is 34 and we have been married for twelve years. >>>>> When I confronted him, he tried to make out that he had dressed in my >>>>> lingerie because he couldn't find his own underwear. But when I asked him about >>>>> the make up, he broke down and admitted that he'd been wearing my clothes >>>>> for six months. I told him to stop or I would leave him. He was let go >>>>> from his job six months ago and he says he has been feeling increasingly >>>>> depressed and worthless. I love him very much, but ever since I gave him the >>>> ultimatum he has become increasingly distant. I don't feel I can get through to >>>>> him anymore. Can you please help? >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Mrs. Lusk >>>>> >>>>> Dear Mrs. Lusk: >>>>> A car stalling after being driven a short distance can be caused by a >>>>> variety of faults with the engine. Start by checkin g that there is no >>>> debris in the fuel line. If it is clear, check the jubilee clips holding the >>>> vacuum pipes onto the inlet manifold. If none of these approaches solves the >>>>> problem, it could be that the fuel pump itself is faulty, causing low >>>>> delivery pressure to the carburetor float chamber. I hope this helps. >>>>> Walter ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From kaskas at cox.net Sun Sep 23 15:32:37 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 14:32:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Headers References: <092320072040.3702.46F6CF4800088CA300000E762205886014970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <008001c7fe29$432ec000$5717c548@RW> When fitting the long tube inlet manifold it pays to also fab up a bracket that runs between the two carb flanges and a support post that fits down to the cylinder block. This is pretty easy to make up with a piece of 3/8" or 1/2" steel tube and welded or bolted to the sheet metal fabricated cross piece that connects the bottom of the two carb flanges. Clear as mud? Well anyway, I did this trick and it saves the manifold and is also a good idea when fitting the Weber carbs as you can then the weight off the manifolds. The steel tube can be bolted up to a steel tab held by the pan bolts. It works pretty well. It must of course be custom made as each header is different and you need to clear for access to the cylinder block side. Having a threaded end allows you to adjust the brace to pick up the carb weight onto the brace/block. Most times the brace cannot be taken straight down to the block but must be off to the side some to clear the headers.There are several way to do this, and the manifolds really appreciate the help. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 Headers > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: Cofrog at aol.com > >> I am needing to replace the headers on my TR4A due to the flange >> thickness >> on the current ones being about half the flange thickness of the intake >> manifold flange where both mount to the head. > > I bought a set of headers from Ken at BFE in 98, and it and my > (reinforced) intake manifold have been trouble free since. The headers fit > great, requiring no diddling to install. The (long runner) intake manifold > is reinforced on the top of each runner, and has never shown any sign of > trouble. > NFI, > Irv Korey > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From trhouse at greenapple.com Sun Sep 23 18:38:22 2007 From: trhouse at greenapple.com (Tom Householder) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:38:22 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Mike Fatsi Message-ID: Any one got current Contact info for Mike. he races out of Virginia From dave at microworks.net Sun Sep 23 18:52:16 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 17:52:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stupid poll response Message-ID: <20070924005530.MHWU23261.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> If results on a poll on the ITV-F1 page continue like they are you can certainly discount the knowledge of the VAST majority of it's readers. The question is "Would F1 drivers benefit from professional coaching?" Current votes are: 6 for Yes (35.29%), 9 for No (52.94%) and 2 for Not Sure (11.76%). That means the 64.7% of the participants of that poll couldn't find their own ass with both hands. http://www.itv-f1.com What is also funny/ironic is that the top aticle on the site is Sir Jackie saying how stupid it is that so few F1 Drivers utilize a coach. http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40779 Top Gear had a recent episode featuring Sir Jackie coaching James May around Oulton Park (in a TVR) and bettering his time by 20 sec. I grabbed that video off You Tube and used it in my DE1 class presentation at Phoenix International yesterday. http://youtube.com/watch?v=roCFoKaUf1A What would you pay to have Sir Jackie coach you? Anyone want to buy my first board to fund my lesson with him? HeHe... From billsohl at optonline.net Sun Sep 23 19:42:10 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:42:10 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I nominate Mike Cook for the task...if he is up to it. Mike is an FOT lister and his PR/Marketing professional skills I'm sure would greatly enhance the media distribution. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 11:20 AM Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" > FoT, > > I am looking for someone to write a progressive series of 'press releases' > over the next 10 months...about three should do it. > > This event has some real magic associated with it. > > We are not as organized at the MG guys, but we can still look good. > > Ideally, the writer of the press release will also be an attendee. > > Thanks, > > Joe Alexander > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billsohl at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 23 20:45:00 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:45:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Message-ID: Bill, Thanks for volunteering Mike. :-) Particularly, since no one else has stepped forward, this would be delightful. He certainly is qualified, and the fact that he owns a few TR3A Driven Trophies from the Glen, it certainly enhances his position. I'll supply most of the information, if he will craft them into something cogent. Joe Alexander P.S. The next guy we will be looking for, is "Shirt Man". > I nominate Mike Cook for the task...if he is up to it. > Mike is an FOT lister and his PR/Marketing professional skills > I'm sure would greatly enhance the media distribution. > > Cheers, > Bill > From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 23 21:10:12 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:10:12 EDT Subject: [Fot] SPONSOR(S) WANTED FOR THE FOT TRIUMPH RACE AT THE GLEN Message-ID: Looking for one major sponsor for the stand alone Triumph Race at the Glen in 2008. Or a couple non-competing business Sponsors. The money will go entirely to the FoT. The money will be used for paying expenses (more like defraying expenses). I refuse to collect donations any longer. (It's like taking in laundry for free, with lots of complaints about the service. Embarrassing and Thankless) Your Business Name(s) will be included in all press releases and SVRA documentation, not to mention all stories submitted for publication. You know, something like, "The BFE Triumph Grand Prix". Or "The Classic Motorsport Triumph Challenge". If you want to discuss it, contact me. Remember, if you step forward now, you get about 10-11 months of advertising mileage out of it. And, I dont want to hear from anyone.....that I didnt ask. Joe Alexander N197tr4 at cs.com From tony at tonydrews.com Sun Sep 23 22:22:36 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:22:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions In-Reply-To: <000401c7fd53$09c33750$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> References: <000401c7fd53$09c33750$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Message-ID: <20070924042328.27F941879D7@autox.team.net> A bunch of the TRactor motor folks run the NGK BP7HS with good success. Normally gapped to something like 0.030" but may work OK at 0.050" as MSD suggests. I have similar compression (different cam, carbs, and ignition though) and they work well for me. We've used them with many different cams and several carbs - Strombergs, SU's and Webers. - Tony Drews At 02:59 PM 9/22/2007, James Gray wrote: >Can anyone suggest a good plug for my car ? I'm just short of 11:1 >compresson, MSD 7AL-2 ignition, MSD HVC-2 coil >D spec cam & stock strombergs. >MSD suggests .050 gap for this set up & CR regardless of the plug type. >Does this sound right ? >Thanks again, >Jim Gray From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 24 06:37:34 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 08:37:34 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions Message-ID: > A bunch of the TRactor motor folks run the NGK BP7HS with good > success. Normally gapped to something like 0.030" but may work OK at > 0.050" as MSD suggests. I have similar compression (different cam, > carbs, and ignition though) and they work well for me. We've used > them with many different cams and several carbs - Strombergs, SU's and > Webers. > > - Tony Drews > I went to a NAPA store expecting to order these plugs. It turned out that it is a common plug used in GOLF CARS. FORE! From billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 24 07:31:18 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:31:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions In-Reply-To: <20070924042328.27F941879D7@autox.team.net> References: <000401c7fd53$09c33750$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> <20070924042328.27F941879D7@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <098DE802-0030-44C9-8FD0-36824F715904@bnj.com> As Tony says, BP7HS is a fine plug and it's NGK, which is good for me because it's one of the few plug nomenclatures I understand. If they look a little hot to you when you read them you can go half a heat range colder to B7HC (hard to get, try a motorcycle shop) or if you foul them try half a heat range hotter B6HC. You can also use the Iridium or Platinum equivalent. I think the platinum is BP7HV. The higher voltage your ignition is running enables you to run .050" and you do want as wide a plug gap as your system can handle, so that should be fine. On Sep 24, 2007, at 12:22 AM, Tony Drews wrote: > A bunch of the TRactor motor folks run the NGK BP7HS with good > success. Normally gapped to something like 0.030" but may work OK at > 0.050" as MSD suggests. I have similar compression (different cam, > carbs, and ignition though) and they work well for me. We've used > them with many different cams and several carbs - Strombergs, SU's > and Webers. > > - Tony Drews > > At 02:59 PM 9/22/2007, James Gray wrote: >> Can anyone suggest a good plug for my car ? I'm just short of 11:1 >> compresson, MSD 7AL-2 ignition, MSD HVC-2 coil >> D spec cam & stock strombergs. >> MSD suggests .050 gap for this set up & CR regardless of the plug >> type. >> Does this sound right ? >> Thanks again, >> Jim Gray > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Mon Sep 24 07:36:37 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:36:37 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Amphicar wanted Message-ID: <006501c7feaf$f00eeb70$1342a8c0@semperon3400> And now for something completely different. Is there anyone on these lists having an Amphicar they're willing to part with? I know at least one/two of us that has one in custody! The phone is a Connecticut exchange... Not me, I know nothing more! WANTED: Amphicar Amphibious vehicle, any year or condition except restored. (860)668-7716 Clark Clark W. Nicholls "Reality... It's not what you think." From mlcooknj at msn.com Mon Sep 24 08:11:43 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:11:43 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Message-ID: Thanks a lot Bill! :-) Hey, I appreciate the recognition but let's not go overboard here. I am over-committed on regular work so I need to think about this. Joe, let's you and I talk separately about what you have in mind. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:45 PM To: billsohl at optonline.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Press Releases for the "FoT at Watkins Glen -2008" Bill, Thanks for volunteering Mike. :-) Particularly, since no one else has stepped forward, this would be delightful. He certainly is qualified, and the fact that he owns a few TR3A Driven Trophies from the Glen, it certainly enhances his position. I'll supply most of the information, if he will craft them into something cogent. Joe Alexander P.S. The next guy we will be looking for, is "Shirt Man". > I nominate Mike Cook for the task...if he is up to it. > Mike is an FOT lister and his PR/Marketing professional skills > I'm sure would greatly enhance the media distribution. > > Cheers, > Bill > mlcooknj at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 24 08:20:08 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:20:08 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's also a common motorcycle plug for two stroke Yamahas (which aren't that common anymore--I don't remember the last time I saw a ring-ding on the street) though it's usually in B7HS guise. BP is projected tip, which runs a little hotter than standard tip. Each full step down in heat range changes the tip temperature about 100 degrees C. Half a heat range step is about 50 degrees C (gee, really?) and projected tip is about 20 degrees hotter than non- projected. The ideal temperature band is about 100 degrees wide, though permissible operation is from 500 to 850 degree C. No way for us amateurs to measure tip temperature other than staring at plugs, but you can tell a lot from that if you do a clean plug chop. The Champion spark plug guru, Bobby whatshisname could tell you what you had for dinner from your plugs. We motorcycle racers used to run Champions just so he would look at our plugs. Pulling plugs from a motor that made it's way back to the paddock is OK for determining you're in the ballpark for heat range, but ineffective for determining mixture. You want to se a clean white tip with just a little coloration of the porcelain, no blistering, and the metal bits need to have retained their sharpness--that happens at about 750-800C. The porcelain starts looking blistered at 850C and the metal starts losing it's sharp edges (melting) at 900C. Unless you have an Iridium plug, which is just fine at over 1000C. If your engine is pumping oil or your mixture is very rich you'll never see that temperature regardless of the heat range. Assuming everything is in the ballpark then once you have established the heat range that's best for you, you can start adjusting your mixture by reading the base of the insulator. That's why the serious tuners use lighted magnifying glasses to look at plugs. You want to look at the circle of insulator at the bottom, and what you want is light brown color after you have driven the car with the throttle setting you're testing (usually WFO) as much as you can. When you get close to the hot pit entrance, you flip off the ignition at full throttle, push in the clutch and coast to the pit wall where your expert crew chief awaits. Or if you're like me, you crawl out and look at the plugs yourself, my crew consists of Sam the Gay Dog--Diane now signs in as "Personal Chef" on my crew sheet. Oh, incidentally, the Iridium plugs for TR3/4 race cars are BPR7HIX. You should be able to order these. Expensive, but they have the interesting virtue of lasting almost forever. You can probably use them for ten years of racing with no change in performance. Just don't put them in a motor that's way too rich or oiling heavily. They are magic for weak ignitions--you can run them with a dinky gap and they won't foul because the electrodes are so skinny. On Sep 24, 2007, at 8:37 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: >> A bunch of the TRactor motor folks run the NGK BP7HS with good >> success. Normally gapped to something like 0.030" but may work OK at >> 0.050" as MSD suggests. I have similar compression (different cam, >> carbs, and ignition though) and they work well for me. We've used >> them with many different cams and several carbs - Strombergs, SU's >> and >> Webers. >> >> - Tony Drews >> > I went to a NAPA store expecting to order these plugs. It turned > out that it > is a common plug used in GOLF CARS. FORE! > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From hottr6 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 24 10:01:53 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:01:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Shipping cars Message-ID: Amici, For those of us that have to transport cars long-distances, I thought I would relate my experiences in shipping Rags from Maryland to New Mexico. I do not have a trailer or a tow rig, so had to use a company to ship cars. I insisted on a enclosed trailer (having been burnt previously when I shipped my Pantera on an open transport across the Rockies in Winter and a snow storm, and the transporter left the drivers window down). I requested several quotes and decided to go with Fedex Custom Critical (yeah, Fedex ships cars!). There were penalties for having a non-running car, so the cost came to about $2K. But this was not door-to-door. The rig is 85' long and could not negotiate the narrow streets near the DC-MD border where I lived, so I had to flatbed the car to meet the truck. At the other end, the rig would get stuck in the canyon I am in, so I am renting a storage unit and Rags is living there for the time being. As stated, the rig was huge. Dennis, the driver, was a petrol-head and loves cars. The trailer with all its hydraulics and bluetooth enabled ramps/jacks etc alone cost $160K. Very impressive. Got the car loaded. 6 days later, it arrives absolutely unmarked and spotless. Even though I drained the fluids from Rags, it of course had to leave its mark in the rig, but all the car spaces in the rig had oil collection places so no harm done. All in all, a great experience. I would highly recommend Fedex Custom Critical should you ever need to ship your pride and joy. Shane Ingate in New Mexico _________________________________________________________________ Its the Windows Live Hotmail. you love  on your phone! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/mobilehotmail/default.mspx?WT.mc_ID=MobileHMTagline2 From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Sep 24 10:15:09 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:15:09 EDT Subject: [Fot] Shipping cars Message-ID: Amici... I think I know where that came from. FedEx bought PASSPORT TRANSPORT, previously started and owned by Bob Pass, who was a very active vintage racer years ago. I think he was even a part owner of SVRA at one time. I remember he had a cute daughter who worked the SVRA registration counter. His headquarters was in St. Louis, and he was instrumental in several Joe Marchetti events being held at the old Gateway circuit (named the GATEWAY HISTORICS at the time). Neat events, but the headquarters hotel (where a concourse was held and Ole Blue won a trophy) was 45 minutes away from the track. A great hotel, in a neat area, but too far from the track. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Sep 24 10:47:33 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:47:33 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Shipping cars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2BCD71E6-962B-4184-A5D6-CE9CF8D9DBEC@earthlink.net> Welcome to N.M. Shane [and Rags]. Hope you'll make Southwest Motorsport [swms.org] your new home club. We are having our last event of the season October 12th-14th. Redcoats on the Rio Grande will feature a All British race on Saturday. Come on out and say Hi and bring Rags if it's ready. Again, welcome to New Mexico - The Land of Entrapment. I'll look forward to meeting you some time soon. Greg Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 24, 2007, at 10:01 AM, Shane Ingate wrote: > Amici, > > For those of us that have to transport cars long-distances, I > thought I > would relate my experiences in shipping Rags from Maryland to New > Mexico. > > I do not have a trailer or a tow rig, so had to use a company to > ship cars. > I insisted on a enclosed trailer (having been burnt previously when I > shipped my Pantera on an open transport across the Rockies in > Winter and a > snow storm, and the transporter left the drivers window down). I > requested > several quotes and decided to go with Fedex Custom Critical (yeah, > Fedex > ships cars!). There were penalties for having a non-running car, > so the > cost came to about $2K. > > But this was not door-to-door. The rig is 85' long and could not > negotiate > the narrow streets near the DC-MD border where I lived, so I had to > flatbed > the car to meet the truck. At the other end, the rig would get > stuck in the > canyon I am in, so I am renting a storage unit and Rags is living > there for > the time being. > > As stated, the rig was huge. Dennis, the driver, was a petrol-head > and > loves cars. The trailer with all its hydraulics and bluetooth enabled > ramps/jacks etc alone cost $160K. Very impressive. Got the car > loaded. 6 > days later, it arrives absolutely unmarked and spotless. Even > though I > drained the fluids from Rags, it of course had to leave its mark in > the rig, > but all the car spaces in the rig had oil collection places so no > harm done. > > All in all, a great experience. I would highly recommend Fedex Custom > Critical should you ever need to ship your pride and joy. > > Shane Ingate in New Mexico > > _________________________________________________________________ > Its the Windows Live Hotmail. you love  on your phone! > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/mobilehotmail/default.mspx? > WT.mc_ID=MobileHMTagline2 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > lunkercars at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Sep 24 10:54:28 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:54:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Shipping cars References: Message-ID: <000d01c7fecb$92947ed0$0501000a@Chowdown> I used Fedex (custom critical) formerly passport, to ship my TR3 from Toledo to Glendale, CA. 2500 bucks, skilled drivers and it only took about 4 days. The Triumph was too narrow for their open transporter which would have cost half the price. Also, we put a few extra cyl heads in the car and some various other spares. They have GPS and are always glad to tell you exactly where your car is currently located on the map. It wasn't cheap but good to go with an insured and bonded company to ship my TR. After 40 years of open trailering, the car deserved a nice ride. Unfortunately it cost almost as much to ship the spare engine, trans, diff, and all the other goodies seperately through Yellow Freight. ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Shipping cars > Amici... > > I think I know where that came from. FedEx bought PASSPORT TRANSPORT, > previously started and owned by Bob Pass, who was a very active vintage > racer years > ago. I think he was even a part owner of SVRA at one time. I remember he > had > a cute daughter who worked the SVRA registration counter. His > headquarters > was in St. Louis, and he was instrumental in several Joe Marchetti events > being > held at the old Gateway circuit (named the GATEWAY HISTORICS at the time). > Neat events, but the headquarters hotel (where a concourse was held and > Ole > Blue won a trophy) was 45 minutes away from the track. A great hotel, in > a neat > area, but too far from the track. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Sep 24 10:59:02 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:59:02 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spark plug suggestions References: Message-ID: <002901c7fecc$357f09d0$0501000a@Chowdown> Y'all probably know this but these guys are great: www.sparkplugs.com They even throw in a coupla stickers for your toolbox! ~Steve From REK46 at aol.com Mon Sep 24 11:16:07 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:16:07 EDT Subject: [Fot] TOPEKA Message-ID: Sorry to break the thread,but does anyone have some first hand info on best places to stay in Topeka area, accessible to Heartland Park ...a nice bar and eatery would be a plus.? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From JWoesvra at aol.com Mon Sep 24 12:17:45 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:17:45 EDT Subject: [Fot] Shipping cars Message-ID: In a message dated 9/24/2007 12:02:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hottr6 at hotmail.com writes: I requested several quotes and decided to go with Fedex Custom Critical (yeah, Fedex ships cars!). There were penalties for having a non-running car, so the cost came to about $2K. But this was not door-to-door. The rig is 85' long and could not negotiate the narrow streets near the DC-MD border where I lived, so I had to flatbed the car to meet the truck. At the other end, the rig would get stuck in the canyon I am in, so I am renting a storage unit and Rags is living there for the time being. As stated, the rig was huge. Dennis, the driver, was a petrol-head and loves cars. The trailer with all its hydraulics and bluetooth enabled ramps/jacks etc alone cost $160K. Very impressive. Got the car loaded. 6 days later, it arrives absolutely unmarked and spotless. Even though I drained the fluids from Rags, it of course had to leave its mark in the rig, but all the car spaces in the rig had oil collection places so no harm done. All in all, a great experience. I would highly recommend Fedex Custom Critical should you ever need to ship your pride and joy. The reason FEDEX does such a great job is that they bought out Passport Transport from Robert Pass. It is the same trucks, drivers, etc. just different paint. It may cost a little more, but you certainly don't have to worry. Robert started this industry and FedEx carries on his legacy. No one ever did it better. Jack Woehrle ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From trmarty at hotmail.com Mon Sep 24 18:05:24 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:05:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TOPEKA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I take it your there now? My son Jason is there co-driving a blue 2007 mini cooper s. Number 66 of 166. If you see him stop and introduce yourself as a fellow Fot'r. He probably can suggest something. Marty Sukey > From: REK46 at aol.com > Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:16:07 -0400 > To: colordog.1 at earthlink.net; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] TOPEKA > > Sorry to break the thread,but does anyone have some first hand info on best > places to stay in Topeka area, accessible to Heartland Park ...a nice bar and > eatery would be a plus.? > > > ************************************** > See what's new > at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > trmarty at hotmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _________________________________________________________________ More photos; more messages; more whatever  Get MORE with Windows Live Hotmail.. NOW with 5GB storage. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration _HM_mini_5G_0907 From mini at wi.rr.com Mon Sep 24 20:02:56 2007 From: mini at wi.rr.com (Richard Gehweiler) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:02:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gearbox legality diverted to bob thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001d01c7ff18$34598b10$6400a8c0@home> Allen, You asked about TR6 gearboxes and you got "bandolier of bachelorettes"! Now look at what you started! Call me about a dog box. Richard Gehweiler mini at wi.rr.com 1.262.894.5460 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+mini=wi.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+mini=wi.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 9:13 AM To: tlizzard at msn.com; billb at bnj.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality diverted to bob thread "bandolier of bachelorettes" well to take this one a step further...it just begs the question... are they on stripper clips??? Glen sorry but somebody HAD to ask... In a message dated 9/23/2007 10:03:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tlizzard at msn.com writes: As long as the calibre is not too large its all good... Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: _Fubog1 at aol.com_ (mailto:Fubog1 at aol.com) To: _billb at bnj.com_ (mailto:billb at bnj.com) ; _ehusmann53 at yahoo.com_ (mailto:ehusmann53 at yahoo.com) Cc: _fot at autox.team.net_ (mailto:fot at autox.team.net) Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 6:16 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] gearbox legality In a message dated 9/22/2007 8:17:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, _billb at bnj.com_ (mailto:billb at bnj.com) writes: "Holy smoke--an entire bandolier of bachelorettes just walked in the door" I'm having trouble with the mental image but it has a nice ring to it... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com mini at wi.rr.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu Mon Sep 24 21:02:17 2007 From: jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu (jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 23:02:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TOPEKA Message-ID: <380-2200792253217444@M2W022.mail2web.com> I'm writing this from the AmeriSuites in Topeka, 6021 SW 6th Street (785) 273-0066 about 20 minutes from the track- it's a pretty nice place, free breakfast, clean rooms with a little kitchen, cold AC, and internet access for no extra charge. I would NOT recommend the ValuePlace thats just a few minutes closer, 1801 SW Westport Road. We had reservations for ValuePlace that were canceled on us less than 24 hours prior to our trip because they "overbooked". As far as eating and drinking...there are many choices within just a few minutes of the hotel here, it's in a very built up area. We've only been to the Longhorn steak house so far, which was very good for a chain type place, I've also heard that O'Doolys pub and grill is very good although I have not been there YET. We are here for the SCCA Solo nationals, so far I've only seen one FOT here. I talked with Bob Lang (EP Ford Focus) for a few minutes at the Sunday test N tune. The MINI felt good for the Sunday test n tune, although today we realized that there were some issues with the freshly installed Koni's and the rears may not have been damping as they should have. We pulled them off the car today, and with a little help from Lee, the Koni guy, we were able to fix them so we should have a completely different and unfamiliar car for our competition days (Thursday and Friday). Unfortunately, I have yet to see a single Triumph here, just FOT guys competing in Non-Triumphs. Jason Sukey Original Message: ----------------- From: marty sukey trmarty at hotmail.com Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:05:24 -0400 To: rek46 at aol.com, colordog.1 at earthlink.net, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] TOPEKA I take it your there now? My son Jason is there co-driving a blue 2007 mini cooper s. Number 66 of 166. If you see him stop and introduce yourself as a fellow Fot'r. He probably can suggest something. Marty Sukey > From: REK46 at aol.com > Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:16:07 -0400 > To: colordog.1 at earthlink.net; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] TOPEKA > > Sorry to break the thread,but does anyone have some first hand info on best > places to stay in Topeka area, accessible to Heartland Park ...a nice bar and > eatery would be a plus.? > > > ************************************** > See what's new > at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > trmarty at hotmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _________________________________________________________________ More photos; more messages; more whatever  Get MORE with Windows Live Hotmail.. NOW with 5GB storage. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio n _HM_mini_5G_0907 jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com  Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft. Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From mini at wi.rr.com Mon Sep 24 21:16:42 2007 From: mini at wi.rr.com (Richard Gehweiler) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:16:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Trailers Message-ID: <002201c7ff22$82acc480$6400a8c0@home> We are looking to upgrade our trailer to something that will haul both Allen Washatko's #6 TR6 and my son's #18 Mini Cooper. We are using our current trailer to haul customer cars for my son Dan's British auto repair business (Yes Ernie another shameless plug for my kid's business) and the trailer is getting down right tired. Any recommendations as to which brands are good and which are not so good? Richard Gehweiler mini at wi.rr.com 1.262.894.5460 From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 24 21:35:43 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:35:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Trailers In-Reply-To: <002201c7ff22$82acc480$6400a8c0@home> References: <002201c7ff22$82acc480$6400a8c0@home> Message-ID: <000601c7ff25$26f8c960$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Here is what I did http://members.cox.net/spitlist/Trailer.htm Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Richard Gehweiler Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:17 PM To: Fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Trailers We are looking to upgrade our trailer to something that will haul both Allen Washatko's #6 TR6 and my son's #18 Mini Cooper. We are using our current trailer to haul customer cars for my son Dan's British auto repair business (Yes Ernie another shameless plug for my kid's business) and the trailer is getting down right tired. Any recommendations as to which brands are good and which are not so good? Richard Gehweiler mini at wi.rr.com 1.262.894.5460 spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Tue Sep 25 07:07:26 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 08:07:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] GT6 calipers? Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747160F2@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Anyone have a pair of good used GT6 calipers they could part with? I'm looking for something I can put on my street GT6. Scott B. From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 25 08:40:24 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:40:24 EDT Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event Message-ID: FoT, We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. I am looking for some additional information: Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if their names and emails are provided. Thanks, Joe Alexander From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 25 08:48:22 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:48:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Shirt Guy for WATKINS GLEN.... and Sponsors? Message-ID: FoT I think we have a "SHIRT GUY" AND A SUPPLIER FOR SHIRTS. This will be announced shortly. I have one or two potential sponsors that are interested enough to step forward and ask questions. The door is still open.... 1. Sponsor for the Kastner Cup Race. 2. Sponsors for Kastner Cup Shirts....if there is any interest we could put company logos on the back of the shirt. Thanks, Joe Alexander From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 25 09:02:09 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 08:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <221185.53374.qm@web57607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Very likely that I will show and be begging a crew pass. Time will tell if I show up with a race car. E. N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT, We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. I am looking for some additional information: Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if their names and emails are provided. Thanks, Joe Alexander ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 25 09:24:25 2007 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 08:24:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] GML at Columbus - Off Topic Message-ID: <650710.1973.qm@web83115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Amici, Earlier this summer, someone wrote of the GML that is going to be held this weekend at Rickebacker airport. Is there anyone from this list going? Thirty years ago this week, I signed in at RAFB and my wife and I decided that it would be a cool reason to go back to the base/airport. I have not yet completely ruled out taking the Spitfire, as it was in that car that we first pulled onto the base. Doug -- dmitchel at sbcglobal.net 1973 Spitfire - 32 years of ownership 1973 Stag From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Tue Sep 25 09:55:26 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:55:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] GT6 body tub Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7471617E@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Hey folks, I have a GT6 body shell that needs a new home. It's a Mk. III (squaretail), Damson in color, in pretty good shape. I can't find any significant rust on it. This bodyshell came from Texas by way of Arizona. I dragged it up here to Wisconsin with the intent of building a GT6 racer, but then Spitfires somehow started breeding like rabbits around me. I also have a GT6 bonnet in slightly less good condition, with some rust around the wheel arches (Midwestern car), but in otherwise decent condition. Scott B. From westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net Tue Sep 25 12:35:39 2007 From: westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net (westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:35:39 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event Message-ID: <092520071835.26558.46F954FB000236C0000067BE2158766755990E04D2069D@att.net> Joe: I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa Racing in Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to the Glen. I need about three other cars to make it very cost effective for transport and a crew. If any one is interested please contact me. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- > FoT, > > We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. > > I am looking for some additional information: > > Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? > > NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. > > Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if their > names and emails are provided. > > Thanks, > > Joe Alexander > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > westerneagleracing at att.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From koblinger at verizon.net Tue Sep 25 13:16:37 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:16:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event Message-ID: <6584549.3884311190747797647.JavaMail.root@vms226.mailsrvcs.net> I am going to register as a definite maybe. I really want to go to the Goodwood Revival next year and it usually falls on the same weekend. Failing that, or maybe in addition, my next choice will be the Glen. I've never been there and this seems like the perfect event. If so I'll be easy to recognize, I'm the one with the permanently attached "funny nose and glasses" combo carrying the big camera bag. Cheers, Kurt (I don't need no steenking lens cap!) Oblinger Various and sundry Triumphs. All disassembled for your closer inspection. >From: N197TR4 at cs.com >Date: 2007/09/25 Tue AM 09:40:24 CDT >To: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event >FoT, > >We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. > >I am looking for some additional information: > >Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? > >NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. > >Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if their >names and emails are provided. > >Thanks, > >Joe Alexander > > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Tue Sep 25 14:34:19 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:34:19 EDT Subject: [Fot] 45 DCOE Aux venturis Message-ID: Amici, Has anyone got some aux venturis for the 45 DCOE's sitting around? I need a half dozen 4.5's and no one has any in stock. Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 25 15:25:55 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:25:55 EDT Subject: [Fot] VSCDA's Fall Finale at MID-OHIO Message-ID: Amici... How many vintage TRIUMPHs plan to run VSCDA's Fall Finale event at MID-OHIO next month (October 12-14th, 2007)? I am aware of Dennis DeLap TR4, Bill Dentinger TR3, Henry Frye TR4, Jeff Snook TR3, Mark Wheatley TR4, and Bob Wismer TR4. There is a TONs and TONs of MGs entered. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From trmarty at hotmail.com Tue Sep 25 16:37:24 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:37:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Probably be a couple of the Sukey's showing up. Put me on the mailing list. Thanks, Marty trmarty at hotmail.com > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:40:24 -0400 > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event > > FoT, > > We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. > > I am looking for some additional information: > > Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? > > NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. > > Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if their > names and emails are provided. > > Thanks, > > Joe Alexander > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > trmarty at hotmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _________________________________________________________________ More photos; more messages; more whatever  Get MORE with Windows Live Hotmail.. NOW with 5GB storage. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration _HM_mini_5G_0907 From tr6nut at verizon.net Tue Sep 25 16:59:52 2007 From: tr6nut at verizon.net (Hugh Barber) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:59:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46F992E8.7030501@verizon.net> I am fairly sure I'll be there sans Triumph. Please add me to the list. Hugh Barber N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT, > > We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. > > I am looking for some additional information: > > Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than drivers? From tlizzard at msn.com Tue Sep 25 18:06:14 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:06:14 -0400 Subject: [Fot] GML at Columbus - Off Topic References: <650710.1973.qm@web83115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I will be there. Been looking forward to it for some time. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Mitchell To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: [Fot] GML at Columbus - Off Topic Amici, Earlier this summer, someone wrote of the GML that is going to be held this weekend at Rickebacker airport. Is there anyone from this list going? Thirty years ago this week, I signed in at RAFB and my wife and I decided that it would be a cool reason to go back to the base/airport. I have not yet completely ruled out taking the Spitfire, as it was in that car that we first pulled onto the base. Doug -- dmitchel at sbcglobal.net 1973 Spitfire - 32 years of ownership 1973 Stag _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Tue Sep 25 19:33:38 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:33:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008d01c7ffdd$44bbeb90$1342a8c0@semperon3400> I'll be there as a spy in the MG camp, crewing for my friend's MGTD... Add me to the list! Thanks, Clark W. Nicholls From billsohl at optonline.net Tue Sep 25 21:47:38 2007 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:47:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <98BC34F8ABD6491CB458CE8090315114@SohlPC> Linda and I plan to be there with our TR-3A street car...thinking about entering it in the Downtown Car Show (Friday) or do the Glenora Run with it...and also have it at the track for the "gathering" and hopefully a track tour. I'll help get the word out locally tp the NJ Triumph Club and the Central PA club. Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:40 AM Subject: [Fot] Non-Driver Attendance at Watkins Glen 2008 Kastner Cup Event > FoT, > > We have about 30 FoT TR Drivers who have registered an intent to run. > > I am looking for some additional information: > > Who are the FOT that are likely to be at WATKINS GLEN, other than > drivers? > > NOT the least important, are FOT crew, overcrew, and attendees. > > Who are they? I will put them on the email list, with the entrants, if > their > names and emails are provided. > > Thanks, > > Joe Alexander > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billsohl at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jsnook at wcnet.org Wed Sep 26 07:00:42 2007 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:00:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VSCDA's Fall Finale at MID-OHIO References: Message-ID: <008501c8003d$3f6f8f60$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> OK FOTers, we need some help here in Ohio to battle those pesky MGs! Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: BillDentin at aol.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:25 PM Subject: [Fot] VSCDA's Fall Finale at MID-OHIO Amici... How many vintage TRIUMPHs plan to run VSCDA's Fall Finale event at MID-OHIO next month (October 12-14th, 2007)? I am aware of Dennis DeLap TR4, Bill Dentinger TR3, Henry Frye TR4, Jeff Snook TR3, Mark Wheatley TR4, and Bob Wismer TR4. There is a TONs and TONs of MGs entered. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html jsnook_gmi at wcnet.org Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Sep 26 10:10:10 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:10:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] compression and leakdown Message-ID: <200709261610.l8QGAXke254790@ns3.geneseo.net> Has anybody taken compression and / or leakdown tests on a freshly prepared engine and compared them with the engine condition after a season of racing? uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 26 10:41:21 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:41:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] compression and leakdown In-Reply-To: <200709261610.l8QGAXke254790@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200709261610.l8QGAXke254790@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <9A9D2802-8A68-4202-83AD-2775AD5CF84D@bnj.com> I have a lot of compression testing data, I test compression whenever I have the plugs out and write it in my log, but unfortunately I don't have any indication of new engine vs end of season. I suspect leakdown testing would be better data anyway, and now that I have my own leakdown tester in the trailer I'll be gathering that information. On Sep 26, 2007, at 9:10 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote: > Has anybody taken compression and / or leakdown tests on a freshly > prepared engine and compared them with the engine condition after a > season of racing? > > uncle jack > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Wed Sep 26 10:48:20 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:48:20 EDT Subject: [Fot] compression and leakdown Message-ID: In a message dated 9/26/2007 12:11:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, vinttr4 at geneseo.net writes: Has anybody taken compression and / or leakdown tests on a freshly prepared engine and compared them with the engine condition after a season of racing? I try to watch them close. There are many variables re service life but usually the valves will leak before the rings will. Average fresh engine after run-in is usually 2-3%, some less. Once they get into 2 digit numbers I get concerned (race engine). Street engines will leak 30% or more & still run well... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Sep 26 11:29:19 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:29:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: <200709261729.l8QHTgjn260041@ns3.geneseo.net> The "normal" way to do this test is to set the piston at top dead center. But if you take the rocker assembly loose, then all the valves are closed. Doing it this way, cam position is eliminated as a factor. Then, has anybody checked leakdown in a TR wet sleeve engine at, say, top, half stroke, and bottom of stroke? uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From riverside at cedar-rapids.net Wed Sep 26 11:55:38 2007 From: riverside at cedar-rapids.net (riverside) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:55:38 -0500 Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question References: <200709261729.l8QHTgjn260041@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <010c01c80066$7393a820$e9178304@your55e5f9e3d2> I like about 1 inch down in the bore to 1.75. this is where it counts. OHC motors hard to loosen, but easy to see. full degree marks on the damper a big help art d ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack W. Drews" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 12:29 PM Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question > The "normal" way to do this test is to set the piston at top dead > center. But if you take the rocker assembly loose, then all the > valves are closed. Doing it this way, cam position is eliminated as a > factor. Then, has anybody checked leakdown in a TR wet sleeve engine > at, say, top, half stroke, and bottom of stroke? > > uncle jack > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > riverside at cedar-rapids.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.31/1031 - Release Date: > 9/26/2007 12:12 PM From billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 26 11:59:56 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:59:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question In-Reply-To: <200709261729.l8QHTgjn260041@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200709261729.l8QHTgjn260041@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <41F47424-FC6F-4F97-81CB-3CE074D26BFD@bnj.com> Nope, sounds like a lot of work. What are you getting at--you think the sleeves are wiggly? You're right. As I think Joe discovered when he was looking into restoring cylinders, you need a torque plate to bore or hone them. Even then, nothing says that the clamping pressure is the same, or that they distort evenly, or that heat cycles don't have a big effect (they do). I don't know how much it matters. But I do know that if you can keep a TR motor from sticking or overheating for the first four or five events, then the engine gets "happy" and lasts a long time. Purely subjective information, I know, but the motor in Peyote has more than 15 events--that's probably 50 practices, qualifiers, races and warmups. It's a very happy motor and I'm loathe to tear it down. It's got less than six percent leakdown on all four cylinders. On Sep 26, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote: > The "normal" way to do this test is to set the piston at top dead > center. But if you take the rocker assembly loose, then all the > valves are closed. Doing it this way, cam position is eliminated as a > factor. Then, has anybody checked leakdown in a TR wet sleeve engine > at, say, top, half stroke, and bottom of stroke? > > uncle jack > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 26 12:32:18 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:32:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: "As I think Joe discovered when he was looking into restoring cylinders, you need a torque plate to bore or hone them. " Bill, The method of clamping we have now replicates what we used in the JOHN DEERE factory for production liners. No use of Torque Plate. We did extensive testing with both Torque Plate and the Liner Clamping Fixture. Clamping Fixture was clearly superior for repeatability and cycle time. It is available for anyone's use. I can supply address to send liners to. I have no financial interest. Didnt want another level of cost if someone needed to use it. About $20-25/liner plus shipping. Allison, Iowa Joe Alexander Jesup, Iowa > As I think Joe discovered when > he was looking into restoring cylinders, you need a torque plate to > bore or hone them. Even then, nothing says that the clamping pressure > is the same, or that they distort evenly, or that heat cycles don't > have a big effect (they do). I don't know how much it matters. But I > do know that if you can keep a TR motor from sticking or overheating > for the first four or five events, then the engine gets "happy" and > lasts a long time. Purely subjective information, I know, but the > motor in Peyote has more than 15 events--that's probably 50 > practices, qualifiers, races and warmups. It's a very happy motor and > I'm loathe to tear it down. It's got less than six percent leakdown > on all four cylinders. > > From Fubog1 at aol.com Wed Sep 26 13:04:33 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:04:33 EDT Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: In a message dated 9/26/2007 2:33:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, N197TR4 at cs.com writes: We did extensive testing with both Torque Plate Joe I'm curious how thick is your torque plate? Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From Gt6steve at aol.com Wed Sep 26 13:36:03 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:36:03 EDT Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: I was gonna buy a torque plate for the sixes the other day. Would you believe $800.00? I'm back to watching for big pieces of stock... We did extensive testing with both Torque Plate Joe I'm curious how thick is your torque plate? Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From rikrock at aol.com Wed Sep 26 14:16:56 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:16:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed Message-ID: <8C9CE9151EB56C3-6D4-2B12@webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com> Amici, I'm not sure of the correct name, but what I'm looking for might be called the?diff gear carrier.? It's the part of?the Detroit?Locker?that contains all the gears you can't see when?unit is?assembled.? It's a cast piece, with a machined flange that the ring gear?attaches to.?This is for a TR4. Yeah, I know this is a long shot, but maybe, just maybe........ Thanks! Rich Rock Pottstown, PA ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From jaboruch at netzero.net Wed Sep 26 18:13:24 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 00:13:24 GMT Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed Message-ID: <20070926.201324.21392.0@webmail14.dca.untd.com> I have 2 cracked ones. Cracks are a common problem with these. If you find a good source, please let me know, since I can use one too. Joe(B) -- rikrock at aol.com wrote: Amici, I'm not sure of the correct name, but what I'm looking for might be called the?diff gear carrier.? It's the part of?the Detroit?Locker?that contains all the gears you can't see when?unit is?assembled.? It's a cast piece, with a machined flange that the ring gear?attaches to.?This is for a TR4. Yeah, I know this is a long shot, but maybe, just maybe........ Thanks! Rich Rock Pottstown, PA ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Vonage - Official Site $24.99/mo. for unlimited local and long distance calls! http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/JKFkuJO6WhWrohfY7sndT9wSZ9nHM9BQ DMPZ6oiIxG92zM8tJDm5HF/ From earthron at yahoo.com Wed Sep 26 19:16:02 2007 From: earthron at yahoo.com (Ron Jones) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer Message-ID: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, I would like to present a nomination to the group for a fellow Triumph racer. Daryll Clark has been racing his white TR3 #333 with VARA for several seasons. He lives Pine Mountain Club, CA near, and is friends with, Herman of transmission fame. Daryll has been improving his lap times greatly recently and really enjoying racing. Currently he suffering some down time as he caught 2nd gear instead of 4th during a recent race and sheared the flywheel bolts. Daryll started with his street TR3 and made it into what is now a full race car. With his "dry" sense of humor I'm sure he would make a great addition to the FOT group. Daryll's email is Alleycatrace at aol.com. Do I hear a second? Ron Jones 1963 TR4 Race Car 1958 TR3 almost ready for paint and reassembly --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. From alfetta95 at optonline.net Wed Sep 26 19:23:44 2007 From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (alfetta95 at optonline.net) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 01:23:44 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer In-Reply-To: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I second! Welcome Daryll Good Luck Todd Redmond TR3A TS 29341 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Jones Date: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:16 pm Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer To: FOT > Hi all, > > I would like to present a nomination to the group for a fellow > Triumph racer. Daryll Clark has been racing his white TR3 #333 > with VARA for several seasons. He lives Pine Mountain Club, CA > near, and is friends with, Herman of transmission fame. Daryll > has been improving his lap times greatly recently and really > enjoying racing. Currently he suffering some down time as he > caught 2nd gear instead of 4th during a recent race and sheared > the flywheel bolts. > > Daryll started with his street TR3 and made it into what is > now a full race car. With his "dry" sense of humor I'm sure he > would make a great addition to the FOT group. > > Daryll's email is Alleycatrace at aol.com. Do I hear a second? > > Ron Jones > 1963 TR4 Race Car > 1958 TR3 almost ready for paint and reassembly > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! > Travel. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > alfetta95 at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Wed Sep 26 19:36:30 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:36:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer References: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701c800a6$d4bebbe0$0501000a@Chowdown> I SECOND!!! Hey Daryll! Steve B 1962TR3B # 144 ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Jones" To: "FOT" Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 6:16 PM Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer > Hi all, > > I would like to present a nomination to the group for a fellow Triumph > racer. Daryll Clark has been racing his white TR3 #333 with VARA for > several seasons. He lives Pine Mountain Club, CA near, and is friends > with, Herman of transmission fame. Daryll has been improving his lap times > greatly recently and really enjoying racing. Currently he suffering some > down time as he caught 2nd gear instead of 4th during a recent race and > sheared the flywheel bolts. > > Daryll started with his street TR3 and made it into what is now a full > race car. With his "dry" sense of humor I'm sure he would make a great > addition to the FOT group. > > Daryll's email is Alleycatrace at aol.com. Do I hear a second? > > Ron Jones > 1963 TR4 Race Car > 1958 TR3 almost ready for paint and reassembly > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Wed Sep 26 19:55:35 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:55:35 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed References: <8C9CE9151EB56C3-6D4-2B12@webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <004501c800a9$7f7116d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Rick, Long shot may be optimistic. I just bought a "parts" TR4 Detroit Locker on eBay a few weeks ago for an embarrassing sum. I haven't disassembled it yet to see if I got a good or bad deal. Is your case worn in the machined surfaces for the carrier bearings? Good luck with the search.. If you find any other spare parts while hunting I am looking for some engagement springs. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed > Amici, > > I'm not sure of the correct name, but what I'm looking for might be called > the?diff gear carrier.? It's the part of?the Detroit?Locker?that contains > all the gears you can't see when?unit is?assembled.? It's a cast piece, > with a machined flange that the ring gear?attaches to.?This is for a TR4. > > Yeah, I know this is a long shot, but maybe, just maybe........ > > Thanks! > > Rich Rock > Pottstown, PA > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Wed Sep 26 19:58:58 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:58:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question References: Message-ID: <005d01c800a9$fa24d510$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Joe, Did this testing include the plate I sent you? Being as how it is around 2 inches thick I expected that it would work well. I like to know how it compares to the Deere method and what I am losing. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question > In a message dated 9/26/2007 2:33:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > N197TR4 at cs.com writes: > > We did extensive > testing with both Torque Plate > > > Joe I'm curious how thick is your torque plate? > Glen > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 26 20:39:56 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:39:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: In a message dated 9/26/2007 8:59:08 PM Central Daylight Time, rkramer3 at austin.rr.com writes: > Joe, > > Did this testing include the plate I sent you? Being as how it is around 2 > inches thick I expected that it would work well. I like to know how it > compares to the Deere method and what I am losing. > > Yes! I think the plate I have is around 2" thick, too....from Mordy Dunst. I have not measured it yet for Glen. You are not likely to be losing anything. Or very little. Or maybe it is even better when you get done. We had to try different torques and different settings on boring and honing equipment, including changing hone stones, to get the desired results. Very time consuming, to get it where we felt it was right. The 'production fixture' was eventually made and we got the results and repeatability much faster. At least all of the liners are pretty much the same. I use a standard head gasket, so I suspect there is not much crush on the rim and it may hold it's wall shape pretty well in assembly. Not very technical, but when it is simple and it works, that's usually a good sign. Our clamping on the entire skirt seems to stabilize the liner very well during boring and honing. Also, beats making a set up with an engine block and placing the torque plate on the liners with all of the fiddling with head bolts and nuts. Fast set up. I would never go back to the old way...but that's me. I stood around these boring and honing machines for hours and hours as an industrial engineer. I dont have perfect knowledge on any of this stuff, but it seems right to me. Joe Alexander From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 26 20:59:01 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:59:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Replacement to Silent-bloc on TR3A Steering Assembly Message-ID: FoT: TR2 3 3A 3B Owners & Racers I just completed a production run on a new design for the OEM rubber imbedded pivot pin. It is different than the original Silent-bloc design....hopefully a big improvement. No rubber from Taiwan and all of the resistence that goes with it. (Yes, I am aware of the Stainless Steel Pin and Bronze Bushing design that is available) This one is another design...similar but different.....hopefully as good or very close. Lower cost, in any case. Targeted at street TR3s distributed through one or more of the 'big three'. If you want to hear more, contact me directly for description and pictures. I have a pilot run done and looking for feedback. I thought about doing this for a very long time, and then got sufficient encouragement to follow through. Of course, I am going to install it on my own TR3A and study it for changes in steering effort and road feel. Joe A N197tr4 at cs.com From koblinger at verizon.net Wed Sep 26 21:04:18 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:04:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for another TR3 Racer In-Reply-To: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <591468.35901.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46FB1DB2.2010206@verizon.net> I'll third, or is it fourth? I hear his crew chief is pretty cute too. Welcome to Daryll and CC. And here is a pic of the man in action. http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8839/dctr3js2.jpg Cheers, Kurt O. Ron Jones wrote: >Hi all, > > I would like to present a nomination to the group for a fellow Triumph racer. Daryll Clark has been racing his white TR3 #333 with VARA for several seasons. He lives Pine Mountain Club, CA near, and is friends with, Herman of transmission fame. Daryll has been improving his lap times greatly recently and really enjoying racing. Currently he suffering some down time as he caught 2nd gear instead of 4th during a recent race and sheared the flywheel bolts. > > Daryll started with his street TR3 and made it into what is now a full race car. With his "dry" sense of humor I'm sure he would make a great addition to the FOT group. > > Daryll's email is Alleycatrace at aol.com. Do I hear a second? > > Ron Jones > 1963 TR4 Race Car > 1958 TR3 almost ready for paint and reassembly > > >--------------------------------- >Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gasket.works at verizon.net Thu Sep 27 01:58:11 2007 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (MDunst/Gasket Works) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 00:58:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <000801c800dc$26a1c440$1502a8c0@Belkin> So, it is For Sale (why buy one when you can buy three....) Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal mains and rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower of San Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. Original custom foamed security packaging. As some comedian said in the movie "Men in Black" ..."the best of the best of the best". The good news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day. The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00 with insured ground shipping included within continental USA. Fedex custom Critical next flight out service available at market rate -If you need to ask how much this costs you can't afford the crank to begin with. Pictures available upon request. Almost too pretty to use in tractor motor. It looks like it was made for some 4 cyl exotic with five main bearings. Christmas/Hanukah stocking stuffer. Happy Autumn M. Dunst www.headgasket.com Gasket Works USA, LLC 626.358.1616 Voice 626.628.3777 Fax GMT -8 Pacific From Fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 27 06:31:54 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 08:31:54 EDT Subject: [Fot] leakdown tester, follow-on question Message-ID: In a message dated 9/26/2007 10:40:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, N197TR4 at cs.com writes: > Joe, > > Did this testing include the plate I sent you? Being as how it is around 2 > inches thick I expected that it would work well. I like to know how it > compares to the Deere method and what I am losing. > > Yes! I think the plate I have is around 2" thick, too....from Mordy Dunst. I have not measured it yet for Glen. You are not likely to be losing anything. Or very little. Or maybe it is even better when you get done. We had to try different torques and different settings on boring and honing equipment, including changing hone stones, to get the desired results. Very time consuming, to get it where we felt it was right. I guess my point is that the plate for these engines has to be pretty stout, since the purpose of using it is a little different than on a conventional bore-in-block engine. My plate is 2 inches as well but, as we well know, it's a real PITA. Anything that does the job as well as or better than the torque plate would be a real good thing. Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Thu Sep 27 06:30:51 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 07:30:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <000801c800dc$26a1c440$1502a8c0@Belkin> References: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> <000801c800dc$26a1c440$1502a8c0@Belkin> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7471639F@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> << If you need to ask how much this costs you can't afford the crank to begin with. >> And when has THAT ever stopped one of us when a really trick part like this becomes available?? Scott B. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MDunst/Gasket Works Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:58 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot So, it is For Sale (why buy one when you can buy three....) Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal mains and rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower of San Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. Original custom foamed security packaging. As some comedian said in the movie "Men in Black" ..."the best of the best of the best". The good news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day. The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00 with insured ground shipping included within continental USA. Fedex custom Critical next flight out service available at market rate -If you need to ask how much this costs you can't afford the crank to begin with. Pictures available upon request. Almost too pretty to use in tractor motor. It looks like it was made for some 4 cyl exotic with five main bearings. Christmas/Hanukah stocking stuffer. Happy Autumn M. Dunst www.headgasket.com Gasket Works USA, LLC 626.358.1616 Voice 626.628.3777 Fax GMT -8 Pacific scott.barr at mccarty-law.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chasgee at aol.com Thu Sep 27 10:17:48 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 12:17:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <000801c800dc$26a1c440$1502a8c0@Belkin> References: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> <000801c800dc$26a1c440$1502a8c0@Belkin> Message-ID: <8C9CF391450E424-3F4-584E@webmail-db11.sysops.aol.com> That's more than it costs me to do a complete motor..... -----Original Message----- From: MDunst/Gasket Works To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 12:58 am Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot So, it is For Sale (why buy one when you can buy three....) Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal mains and rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower of San Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. Original custom foamed security packaging. As some comedian said in the movie "Men in Black" ..."the best of the best of the best". The good news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day. The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00 with insured ground shipping included within continental USA. Fedex custom Critical next flight out service available at market rate -If you need to ask how much this costs you can't afford the crank to begin with. Pictures available upon request. Almost too pretty to use in tractor motor. It looks like it was made for some 4 cyl exotic with five main bearings. Christmas/Hanukah stocking stuffer. Happy Autumn M. Dunst www.headgasket.com Gasket Works USA, LLC 626.358.1616 Voice 626.628.3777 Fax GMT -8 Pacific chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From rikrock at aol.com Thu Sep 27 13:39:52 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 15:39:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed In-Reply-To: <004501c800a9$7f7116d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <8C9CE9151EB56C3-6D4-2B12@webmail-md16.sysops.aol.com> <004501c800a9$7f7116d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <8C9CF554EC6D7FB-B6C-69B1@MBLK-M18.sysops.aol.com> The machined flange to which the ring gear mates is now a separate piece.? It broke(sheared)? from the main body :-( Rich Rock -----Original Message----- From: BOB KRAMER To: rikrock at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 9:55 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed Rick, Long shot may be optimistic. I just bought a "parts" TR4 Detroit Locker on eBay a few weeks ago for an embarrassing sum. I haven't disassembled it yet to see if I got a good or bad deal. Is your case worn in the machined surfaces for the carrier bearings? Good luck with the search.. If you find any other spare parts while hunting I am looking for some engagement springs. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: [Fot] Detroit Locker Part Needed > Amici, > > I'm not sure of the correct name, but what I'm looking for might be called > the?diff gear carrier.? It's the part of?the Detroit?Locker?that contains > all the gears you can't see when?unit is?assembled.? It's a cast piece, > with a machined flange that the ring gear?attaches to.?This is for a TR4. > > Yeah, I know this is a long shot, but maybe, just maybe........ > > Thanks! > > Rich Rock > Pottstown, PA > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From budscars at msn.com Thu Sep 27 14:43:44 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 13:43:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: best choice so far?? Message-ID: Re: best choice so far??Hi Gang...a friend of a friend is interested in this spitfire on the link below..apparently jerry barker built the engine..I you have any addirional info..especially about the car being CSRG eligible, please contact Bill Kirkwood at kiwi at mbari.org Thanks Racer Bud..spitfire #21 --- http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/triumph/1180469329/1180469329ss.htm From Gt6steve at aol.com Thu Sep 27 14:47:05 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:47:05 EDT Subject: [Fot] Fw: best choice so far?? Message-ID: A VERY good car well known to the VARA Triumph racers. Impeccable credentials, well sorted and fast. Steve Smith _http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/triumph/1180469329/1180469329ss.htm_ (http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/triumph/1180469329/1180469329ss.htm) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From JandJalford at aol.com Thu Sep 27 16:36:17 2007 From: JandJalford at aol.com (JandJalford at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:36:17 EDT Subject: [Fot] Fw: best choice so far?? Message-ID: Steve, Car has been sold and is back in Washington to run with SOVREN. Vince is now building a Fiat. Jerry Alford ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From hottr6 at hotmail.com Thu Sep 27 16:39:57 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:39:57 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: Mordy wrote: >Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal mains and >rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower of San >Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. The good >news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day. >The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00 A lot of the heavy moving parts in my old 351 Cleveland were built by Crower, and it would run at 7,000 rpm all day long. Crower builds truly good stuff, and I would recommend them. $3.3K? CHEAP, considering I am still looking at $6K for the first billet TR6 crank. When is someone going to kick SCCA in the a$$ and allow all TR6s to compete in vintage? Once the market exists, affordable hi-po bits will follow. Shane Ingate, in the Land of Enchantment _________________________________________________________________ Can you find the hidden words? Take a break and play Seekadoo! http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_hotmailtextlink1 From billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 27 17:02:25 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:02:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A60B43F-F9B8-419D-A904-F7406DE50AD8@bnj.com> Not sure what you mean about SCCA allowing TR6 to compete in vintage. My experience with the SCCA here in portland indicates that you can run anything you like in vintage as long as it passes tech, and tech doesn't car what the car is as long as it's safe. On Sep 27, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Shane Ingate wrote: > Mordy wrote: > >> Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal >> mains and >> rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower >> of San >> Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. >> The good >> news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day. >> The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00 > > A lot of the heavy moving parts in my old 351 Cleveland were built > by Crower, and it would run at 7,000 rpm all day long. Crower builds > truly good stuff, and I would recommend them. $3.3K? CHEAP, > considering > I am still looking at $6K for the first billet TR6 crank. > > When is someone going to kick SCCA in the a$$ and allow all TR6s to > compete in vintage? Once the market exists, affordable hi-po bits > will > follow. > > Shane Ingate, in the Land of Enchantment > > _________________________________________________________________ > Can you find the hidden words? Take a break and play Seekadoo! > http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_hotmailtextlink1 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Thu Sep 27 17:04:31 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:04:31 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: Shane, Who told you 6K? Probably Moldex. Several years ago Scat told me $2200 for the sixes and I could mix the strokes. Trouble was I had to buy ten and I just couldn't float that expense. I've not talked to them in several years. Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Sep 27 20:29:08 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 21:29:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Zinc Inquiry Message-ID: FoT, Here is a response from Brad Penn regarding ZDDP.Allen Begin forwarded message: > From: Ken Tyger > Date: September 27, 2007 8:03:34 AM CDT > To: awashatko at wi.rr.com > Subject: Zinc Inquiry > > Allen, > > Thank you for contacting the American Refining Group, Inc. and for > your inquiry. > > I understand any concerns you might have in regards to (or lack of) > ZDDP and anti-wear components in racing lubricants. Although the > exact zinc concentration in our formulation is proprietary, I can say > that the value you have referenced, >1% ZN (>1200ppm), would be a > reasonable representation of the approximate level of zinc in our Brad > Penn. Penn-Grade 1. Racing Oil(s). Zinc, as you know, is a critical > element in protecting the cam lobe flat tappet wear area commonly > found in high performance applications. The zinc utilized in our ZDDP > is a very polar additive, meaning the zinc compounds react to the > metal to prevent scuffing and wear..obviously a must when discussing > flat tappet cams. > > Secondly, while zinc is an important part of the oil make-up, it is by > no means the whole story. The 100% PA Grade base stocks used in > formulating our Brad Penn. Penn-Grade 1. Racing Oil(s) contain a > natural polarity to the metal as well. Yes, the additive package is > important, but as you can see so are the base oils. Our refinery can > only produce one crude oil and that is Penn-Grade. > > Many engine builders, racing enthusiasts and your typical > muscle/hotrod/vintage users have reported outstanding success using > the Brad Penn. Penn-Grade 1. Racing Oil(s).I have no doubt you will > experience the same. On a sidenote, Brad Penn. Penn-Grade 1. Racing > Oil(s) are recommended by such cam manufacturers as Crower, Isky, > Schneider, Howards, Bullet and Crane. > > As you know, talk is cheap! The proof is in the performance. We at > American Refining Group, Inc. rely on the proven performance of our > products, not hype. If I can be of further assistance, please contact > me. > > Regards, > > Kenneth M. Tyger > Technical Service Representative > American Refining Group, Inc. > > > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Thu Sep 27 20:34:11 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:34:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] scca Vintage Message-ID: <46FC6823.5060408@cyberspeedway.net> The SCCA vintage rules beyond safety are mostly up to the Region. There are several GCRs included in the Vintage GCR. I think they are 1962, 1967-68, and 1972. I don't have one here but they are very interesting. They clear up a lot of speculation about what was allowed and when. AZ Region is going to start running a Vintage group in our regional program this fall. We are starting with Production and Sedan classes only. I think the local Vintage guys who are guiding this are taking any non flared car for the first event. Greg Lund From walt at hot-tr6.com Fri Sep 28 07:06:52 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:06:52 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed Message-ID: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> I am building up a couple of TR6 engine but my two spare blocks for my 2008 racing season season. My two extra TR6 engines are missing the rear main crankshaft bearing caps. If any FOT members have a motor that grenaded maybe they have a cap or two they could sell me. Thanks Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, NM direct email: walt at hot-tr6.com From dos_gusanos at msn.com Fri Sep 28 08:04:30 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:04:30 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, and I'm waiting for the Confederate Air Force, or whatever their PC name is now, to designate the B-52 as a WWII aircraft. Henry Morrison, Albuquerque.............> From: hottr6 at hotmail.com> To: gasket.works at verizon.net> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:39:57 -0400> CC: fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot> > Mordy wrote:> > >Crankshaft ...brand new i.e. never used standard TR3/4 journal mains and> >rods surplus custom billet "dummy main" crankshaft made by Crower of San> >Diego. i.e. Smooth rear lip seal, four 7/16" bolts plus pins. The good > >news ----It is AVAILABLE 2day.> >The bad news (---Not a typo) $3,300.00> > A lot of the heavy moving parts in my old 351 Cleveland were built> by Crower, and it would run at 7,000 rpm all day long. Crower builds> truly good stuff, and I would recommend them. $3.3K? CHEAP, considering> I am still looking at $6K for the first billet TR6 crank.> > When is someone going to kick SCCA in the a$$ and allow all TR6s to> compete in vintage? Once the market exists, affordable hi-po bits will > follow.> > Shane Ingate, in the Land of Enchantment> > _________________________________________________________________> Can you find the hidden words? Take a break and play Seekadoo! > http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_hotmailtextlink1> _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Sep 28 08:07:06 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:07:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed References: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <03da01c801d8$dac92c40$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Walt, thanks for starting this thread because I also need some main bearing caps. I need all of them though, so if after Walt gets his to rear main caps, if there are any left over please contact me. Thanks, Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Hollowell" To: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:06 AM Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed > I am building up a couple of TR6 engine but my two spare blocks for my 2008 > racing season season. My two extra TR6 engines are missing the rear main > crankshaft bearing caps. If any FOT members have a motor that grenaded maybe > they have a cap or two they could sell me. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Albuquerque, NM > direct email: walt at hot-tr6.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Fri Sep 28 08:12:49 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:12:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed Message-ID: Dang guys, what are you doing with these things? I'll see what I've got Charly, already promised a rear main cap to Walt if I can come up with them. Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Sep 28 08:47:46 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:47:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed References: Message-ID: <040001c801de$89268670$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Thanks, let me know. I don't know what happened to the caps, I just found a good block with out any. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: charly at mitchelplumbing.com ; walt at hot-tr6.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 part needed Dang guys, what are you doing with these things? I'll see what I've got Charly, already promised a rear main cap to Walt if I can come up with them. Steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Fri Sep 28 09:05:27 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:05:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed In-Reply-To: <03da01c801d8$dac92c40$1a02a8c0@workstation3> References: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> <03da01c801d8$dac92c40$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820AC11E93@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Mark, Did you ever get onto the FOT list? I can't recall seeing you post anything as of yet. If your not onthe list then you haven't seen that some other FoTer's are looking for TR6 main bearing caps. If I recall you had a blown up block and might still have the bearing caps. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Hollowell" To: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:06 AM Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed > I am building up a couple of TR6 engine but my two spare blocks for my 2008 > racing season season. My two extra TR6 engines are missing the rear main > crankshaft bearing caps. If any FOT members have a motor that grenaded maybe > they have a cap or two they could sell me. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Albuquerque, NM > direct email: walt at hot-tr6.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot rkramer at rdoequipment.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From hottr6 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 28 09:19:06 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:19:06 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve, The low quote you received from SCAT amortizes the cost of set-up on the first crank over 10 units. Moldex says that the first unit is $6K, the first 3 units $5.5K each, and the price decreases depending on the length of the production run. I do not know of many serious TR5/6 racers out there: Chuck Arnold, Dean Van der Carr, Sam Halkias, Walt Hollowill, JK Jackson, Bob Lang, Mike Munson, Kai Radicke, Marty Sukey, Dave Wingett and Alan Washatko. My apologies if I have left any out. Still, it is a small number, and not because the car is incapable, but we have to race unfairly in classes where the car is largely non-competitive. The GT6s have an easier time because they meet the age requirements. Shane ----Original Message Follows---- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: hottr6 at hotmail.com, gasket.works at verizon.net CC: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:04:31 EDT Shane, Who told you 6K? Probably Moldex. Several years ago Scat told me $2200 for the sixes and I could mix the strokes. Trouble was I had to buy ten and I just couldn't float that expense. I've not talked to them in several years. Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com _________________________________________________________________ A place for moms to take a break! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Fri Sep 28 09:23:28 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:23:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: Message-ID: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> How do you tell your wives that you need to spend 3-6k on a crankshaft? ~Steve B :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Ingate" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > Steve, > > The low quote you received from SCAT amortizes the cost of set-up on the > first crank over 10 units. Moldex says that the first unit is $6K, the > first 3 units $5.5K each, and the price decreases depending on the length > of > the production run. > > I do not know of many serious TR5/6 racers out there: Chuck Arnold, Dean > Van > der Carr, Sam Halkias, Walt Hollowill, JK Jackson, Bob Lang, Mike Munson, > Kai Radicke, Marty Sukey, Dave Wingett and Alan Washatko. My apologies if > I > have left any out. Still, it is a small number, and not because the car > is > incapable, but we have to race unfairly in classes where the car is > largely > non-competitive. > > The GT6s have an easier time because they meet the age requirements. > > Shane > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Gt6steve at aol.com > To: hottr6 at hotmail.com, gasket.works at verizon.net > CC: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:04:31 EDT > > Shane, > Who told you 6K? Probably Moldex. Several years ago Scat told me $2200 > for > the sixes and I could mix the strokes. Trouble was I had to buy ten and I > just couldn't float that expense. I've not talked to them in several > years. > Steve > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > A place for moms to take a break! > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 09:29:36 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:29:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot...telling wife Message-ID: right after you catch her with another guy..! ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Sep 28 10:02:47 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:02:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: Message-ID: <040a01c801e9$039abf20$1a02a8c0@workstation3> I too race a TR6 and would be interested in a crank, but the crank hasn't been the problem. Its been the flywheel/clutch. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Ingate" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > Steve, > > The low quote you received from SCAT amortizes the cost of set-up on the > first crank over 10 units. Moldex says that the first unit is $6K, the > first 3 units $5.5K each, and the price decreases depending on the length of > the production run. > > I do not know of many serious TR5/6 racers out there: Chuck Arnold, Dean Van > der Carr, Sam Halkias, Walt Hollowill, JK Jackson, Bob Lang, Mike Munson, > Kai Radicke, Marty Sukey, Dave Wingett and Alan Washatko. My apologies if I > have left any out. Still, it is a small number, and not because the car is > incapable, but we have to race unfairly in classes where the car is largely > non-competitive. > > The GT6s have an easier time because they meet the age requirements. > > Shane > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Gt6steve at aol.com > To: hottr6 at hotmail.com, gasket.works at verizon.net > CC: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:04:31 EDT > > Shane, > Who told you 6K? Probably Moldex. Several years ago Scat told me $2200 for > the sixes and I could mix the strokes. Trouble was I had to buy ten and I > just couldn't float that expense. I've not talked to them in several years. > Steve > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > A place for moms to take a break! > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Sep 28 10:03:31 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:03:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot...telling wife References: Message-ID: <041201c801e9$1dfce5a0$1a02a8c0@workstation3> How do you justify all the other racing expenses? Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot...telling wife > right after you catch her with another guy..! > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 10:10:51 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:10:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot...telling wife Message-ID: as soon as I get done with this vacuuming ,and the dishes...I'm gonna work on the race entry...and hopefully,someday, Paul Newman really will show up. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From chasgee at aol.com Fri Sep 28 10:07:32 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:07:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed In-Reply-To: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> References: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8C9D000CF981184-178C-991C@webmail-me16.sysops.aol.com> Keep in mind these are the same as 1500 Spitfire. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Walter Hollowell To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 6:06 am Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed I am building up a couple of TR6 engine but my two spare blocks for my 2008 racing season season. My two extra TR6 engines are missing the rear main crankshaft bearing caps. If any FOT members have a motor that grenaded maybe they have a cap or two they could sell me. Thanks Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, NM direct email: walt at hot-tr6.com chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Sep 28 10:22:40 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:22:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed References: <20070928130734.BBB151879BC@autox.team.net> <8C9D000CF981184-178C-991C@webmail-me16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <042001c801eb$cc0ee650$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Thanks, I never thought of that. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 part needed > Keep in mind these are the same as 1500 Spitfire. > > Chuck > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Hollowell > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 6:06 am > Subject: [Fot] TR6 part needed > > > > I am building up a couple of TR6 engine but my two spare blocks for my 2008 > racing season season. My two extra TR6 engines are missing the rear main > crankshaft bearing caps. If any FOT members have a motor that grenaded maybe > they have a cap or two they could sell me. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Albuquerque, NM > direct email: walt at hot-tr6.com > chasgee at aol.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 10:28:01 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:28:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR6....wife Message-ID: it then really depends on yor situ....Newlywed,better set the right precedents now or b/4 ......if 39yrs married,etc, ,like me,....try leaving a copy of your 401K where she can see it....and mentioning how 'dangerous' this sport is! ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From twakeman at razzolink.com Fri Sep 28 10:51:04 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:51:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> Steve Belfer wrote: > How do you tell your wives that you need to spend 3-6k on a crankshaft? By first telling them that they have $3-6K to spend on themselves without regard to family or home. Fair is fair TeriAnn From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 10:58:21 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:58:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: Sorry Teri...I don't feel that spending should be a contest of matching funds.....spend what you NEED ,when you need it,and vice-versa.... ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From dos_gusanos at msn.com Fri Sep 28 11:21:22 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:21:22 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper trail.................................. From twakeman at razzolink.com Fri Sep 28 11:20:25 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:20:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46FD37D9.1000900@razzolink.com> REK46 at aol.com wrote: > Sorry Teri...I don't feel that spending should be a contest of matching > funds.....spend what you NEED ,when you need it,and vice-versa.... I agree for individual and family NEEDs. But I don't agree when it comes to hobbies & pastimes. There the balance of discretionary funds tend to be unbalanced. Especially the closer a family income comes to subsistence level income. If there's plenty of money for everyone to do as they wish, who cares. If one party goes without while the other spends on non family items, there tends to be a resentment level that accumulates over time. but this is just one woman's opinion From hottr6 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 28 11:57:47 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:57:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot... telling the wife Message-ID: >How do you tell your wives that you need to spend 3-6k on a crankshaft? The current member is a little floppy, and needs stiffening to sustain faster speeds. It must be Friday and am getting a little punchy. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes! http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2 From riverside at cedar-rapids.net Fri Sep 28 12:01:29 2007 From: riverside at cedar-rapids.net (riverside) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:01:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: <46FD37D9.1000900@razzolink.com> Message-ID: <003301c801f9$99586250$78d0fc04@your55e5f9e3d2> faint echos of a prematurely curtailed racing carreer and the causes thereof. art d ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Cc: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > REK46 at aol.com wrote: >> Sorry Teri...I don't feel that spending should be a contest of matching >> funds.....spend what you NEED ,when you need it,and vice-versa.... > > I agree for individual and family NEEDs. But I don't agree when it > comes to hobbies & pastimes. There the balance of discretionary funds > tend to be unbalanced. Especially the closer a family income comes to > subsistence level income. If there's plenty of money for everyone to do > as they wish, who cares. If one party goes without while the other > spends on non family items, there tends to be a resentment level that > accumulates over time. > > but this is just one woman's opinion > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > riverside at cedar-rapids.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1034 - Release Date: > 9/27/2007 5:00 PM From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 12:09:47 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:09:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: well,as Teri says .." it's only one womans opinion "...maybe we should poll the wives of Warren Jeffs. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From dos_gusanos at msn.com Fri Sep 28 12:10:04 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:10:04 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <003301c801f9$99586250$78d0fc04@your55e5f9e3d2> References: <46FD37D9.1000900@razzolink.com> <003301c801f9$99586250$78d0fc04@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: This is my favorite topic for making jokes, that said, I would dump it all rather than go through the big D, after all she'd probably take the pit crew with her. From REK46 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 12:21:29 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:21:29 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: If we had to go thru the Big "D " (assuming you don't mean Dallas)...we'd lose more than the crew.....then it would be back to racing on Visa ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Sep 28 12:24:05 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:24:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot... telling the wife References: Message-ID: <004a01c801fc$c0e77600$0200a8c0@Desktop> Gee Shane....... Rags has been a part for how long By the time you will need the crank it will be 9K or more Craig What do tell your wife (the boss) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Ingate" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot... telling the wife > >How do you tell your wives that you need to spend 3-6k on a crankshaft? > > The current member is a little floppy, and needs stiffening to sustain > faster speeds. > > It must be Friday and am getting a little punchy. > > Shane Ingate in NM > > _________________________________________________________________ > Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes! > http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Fri Sep 28 13:57:21 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:57:21 -0600 Subject: [Fot] No oil pressure Message-ID: <000001c80209$c8d14be0$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> During my pre-ignition check of a fresh TR4 motor I discovered I have NO oil pressure. When I spun up the pump through the distributor pedestal it geysered through the pedestal but little else. During assembly I greased the new pump to assist with the prime. I pulled the oil pressure line and checked for obstructions. None found I have a rocker feed line I can only get a drop or two of oil at number 4 exhaust rocker. I tried rotating the cam to a half dozen different orientations and still can't get oil to the rockers. Checked for the gasket between the block and pump, it's there. Checked the copper washer at the banjo fitting at the filter head. I had a smaller ID washer to begin with, swapped it out with a larger ID and no change. Adjusted the oil pressure relief valve all the way in and back out, seems to be in order, ball looks seated but I will check again. I checked the gauge with air, works fine. Disconnected the oil pressure line up top, barely a dribble of oil. Pulled one of the large oil gallery plugs below the distributor, oil flows out but can't tell at what pressure. The oil pump drive shaft bushing notch is aligned front to rear but seems to be off by a degree or two ? Checked the filter head for obstructions, found none. I installed the oil filter and the oil cooler dry, when taken apart they were both full. Pump pickup/screen has proper orientation. Everything seems to be in order, I'm completely baffled. Has anyone else had this problem ? Thanx, Jim G. # 102 RMVR From Fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 28 14:08:02 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:08:02 EDT Subject: [Fot] No oil pressure Message-ID: In a message dated 9/28/2007 3:59:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: Checked for the gasket between the block and pump, it's there. fitted correct way? Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From mini at wi.rr.com Fri Sep 28 17:57:01 2007 From: mini at wi.rr.com (Richard Gehweiler) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:57:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] No oil pressure In-Reply-To: <000001c80209$c8d14be0$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Message-ID: <000e01c8022b$473739b0$6400a8c0@home> I used to work at a now defunct sports car service shop. One of the jobs they had me do was to install and remove the engine from an MG TF (in and out at least a half a dozen times). It wouldn't generate oil pressure. The guy who rebuilt it and the shop owner couldn't figure it out. They finally found that the machine shop hadn't installed one of the cam bearings....no restriction, no oil pressure. I couldn't get them to bench test for pressure, they had me install and start the engine to get pressure. It pained me to see metal shavings at the rockers on a fresh rebuild that a customer was paying for. (He also wound up paying for all the time I spent installing and pulling the engine, any wonder the shop is out of business!). Richard Gehweiler mini at wi.rr.com 1.262.894.5460 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+mini=wi.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+mini=wi.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of James Gray Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 2:57 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] No oil pressure During my pre-ignition check of a fresh TR4 motor I discovered I have NO oil pressure. When I spun up the pump through the distributor pedestal it geysered through the pedestal but little else. During assembly I greased the new pump to assist with the prime. I pulled the oil pressure line and checked for obstructions. None found I have a rocker feed line I can only get a drop or two of oil at number 4 exhaust rocker. I tried rotating the cam to a half dozen different orientations and still can't get oil to the rockers. Checked for the gasket between the block and pump, it's there. Checked the copper washer at the banjo fitting at the filter head. I had a smaller ID washer to begin with, swapped it out with a larger ID and no change. Adjusted the oil pressure relief valve all the way in and back out, seems to be in order, ball looks seated but I will check again. I checked the gauge with air, works fine. Disconnected the oil pressure line up top, barely a dribble of oil. Pulled one of the large oil gallery plugs below the distributor, oil flows out but can't tell at what pressure. The oil pump drive shaft bushing notch is aligned front to rear but seems to be off by a degree or two ? Checked the filter head for obstructions, found none. I installed the oil filter and the oil cooler dry, when taken apart they were both full. Pump pickup/screen has proper orientation. Everything seems to be in order, I'm completely baffled. Has anyone else had this problem ? Thanx, Jim G. # 102 RMVR mini at wi.rr.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Fri Sep 28 19:36:14 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? In-Reply-To: <46FC6823.5060408@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <413580.57432.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> While racing today at LRP, I lost the head gasket. Brand new motor, only 2 sessions of time on it. Upon inspection, the rear freezeplug had "left the building". So my question is this, is it more likely the gasket failure caused the freezeplug to go or the other way around? This motor was brand new, and it was put together (dad and myself) effectively. This motor doesn't leak and it has power so why would the gasket go so quickly? This is why I am leaning towards the freezeplug as the cause and the gasket as the effect.... Thoughts... Thanks Jay --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. From budscars at msn.com Fri Sep 28 19:58:21 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:58:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? References: <413580.57432.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jay....I don't know what TR you are racing, ..I have a new engine in my Spitfire....and the new freeze plugs are leaking..without even being on the track.....I've been told that now that the blocks are getting old, that putting a sealer in the water system is a normal thing ? I could use some input here too. Thanks Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Creel" To: "greg" ; "FOT LIST" Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? > While racing today at LRP, I lost the head gasket. Brand new motor, only > 2 sessions of time on it. Upon inspection, the rear freezeplug had "left > the building". So my question is this, is it more likely the gasket > failure caused the freezeplug to go or the other way around? > > This motor was brand new, and it was put together (dad and myself) > effectively. This motor doesn't leak and it has power so why would the > gasket go so quickly? This is why I am leaning towards the freezeplug as > the cause and the gasket as the effect.... > > Thoughts... > > Thanks > Jay > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Fri Sep 28 20:06:13 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 02:06:13 GMT Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? Message-ID: <20070928.220613.5810.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> I lost a freeze plug on my Spitfire years ago and more recently had one leaking on a head that I rebuilt for my TR3. Both were plugs that were in place for years. From now on, I will replace them as part of the build up, so that I know what I have. With my Spitfire I drilled and tapped 4-40 screws next to the freeze plug as a little more insurance to retain the plug. Joe(B) -- "RACER BUD" wrote: Hi Jay....I don't know what TR you are racing, ..I have a new engine in my Spitfire....and the new freeze plugs are leaking..without even being on the track.....I've been told that now that the blocks are getting old, that putting a sealer in the water system is a normal thing ? I could use some input here too. Thanks Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Creel" To: "greg" ; "FOT LIST" Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? > While racing today at LRP, I lost the head gasket. Brand new motor, only > 2 sessions of time on it. Upon inspection, the rear freezeplug had "left > the building". So my question is this, is it more likely the gasket > failure caused the freezeplug to go or the other way around? > > This motor was brand new, and it was put together (dad and myself) > effectively. This motor doesn't leak and it has power so why would the > gasket go so quickly? This is why I am leaning towards the freezeplug as > the cause and the gasket as the effect.... > > Thoughts... > > Thanks > Jay > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Vonage - Official Site $24.99/mo. for unlimited local and long distance calls! http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/JKFkuJO6WhXb5tcDhnoirvNVPggxbMyu 4tRC2AwOzraMz1QEptbT9f/ From spitfiresuz at 141.com Fri Sep 28 20:41:29 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:41:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P Susan :) dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper > trail.................................. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Fri Sep 28 21:02:18 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 23:02:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? Message-ID: In a message dated 9/28/2007 7:42:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: > > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 02:06:13 GMT > From: "Joe Boruch" > Subject: Re: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze > plug???? > To: budscars at msn.com > > I lost a freeze plug on my Spitfire years ago and more recently had one > leaking on a head that I rebuilt for my TR3. Both were plugs that were in > place for years. From now on, I will replace them as part of the build up, > so > that I know what I have. > With my Spitfire I drilled and tapped 4-40 screws next to the freeze plug as > a > little more insurance to retain the plug. Joe(B) ISTR that some racers hold their freeze plugs in place with a strap attached to the block with some kind of screws, to prevent them coming out? I do not believe that the age of the blocks has any effect. Regards Lion From twakeman at razzolink.com Fri Sep 28 22:05:24 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:05:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: <46FDCF04.1020702@razzolink.com> Susan Kahler wrote: > Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank > from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine > around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P > > Susan :) Something to aspire to! I've been working on a Land Rover project that includes new front axles, front diff, front prop shaft, all new frame suspension bushings and rebuilding the transfer case. So far I've broken 2 nails! I'm envious of your skill! TeriAnn From dos_gusanos at msn.com Fri Sep 28 22:18:28 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:18:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: If your lady will be happy with the crank as an anniversary gift, who's gonna have to do any explaining? I'd a never let a gal with her own Spitfire get away......................................Henry> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:41:29 -0500> From: spitfiresuz at 141.com> To: dos_gusanos at msn.com> CC: fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot> > Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank > from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine > around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P> > Susan :)> > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote:> > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of> > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with> > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper> > trail..................................> > _______________________________________________> > http://www.team.net/donate.html> >> > spitfiresuz at 141.com> > Fot mailing list> > Fot at autox.team.net> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> >> >> >> > > > -- > ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. **> From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Sat Sep 29 06:26:33 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 08:26:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: <001401c80294$0242b280$0200a8c0@Desktop> OUCH! you guys and girls need to get back to racing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kahler" To: Cc: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank > from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine > around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P > > Susan :) > > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: >> Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of >> thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with >> allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper >> trail.................................. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> spitfiresuz at 141.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> >> > > -- > ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then > beat you with experience. ** > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From VANDECARR at aol.com Sat Sep 29 07:02:13 2007 From: VANDECARR at aol.com (VANDECARR at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:02:13 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR 6 Race Engine for sale Message-ID: I would like to offer this race prepared TR 6 to the group before listing it on ebay. This engine was originally in my TR 6 that was used only for Solo II events. It was installed in June and was used in about 9 events. I replaced the engine with a small block Ford V8. I was keeping it in case I changed my mind or was going to build another race TR 6 but I like the V8 power and I bm now building a BM car for Solo II. This engine was in great running shape when removed and has been stored in a heated garage. Put on a set of Webers and manifold and this engine is ready to go. In addition to the race parts listed below it also has a new oil pump and water pump. If anyone plans on bulding a race motor for next season this will save you a lot of money. Ibd like $4500 and will pack it up and freight it for my cost. Below are the specs for the engine - for more more info email me or call 845-221-4776. J&E forged pistons - 040 0ver Pauter forged rods NOS standard size Vandervell Tri Metal bearings - Mains and rods(comes with extra set) Circle B head milled .220 - machinist checked for proper head thickness before milling Goodparts roller rockers and hardened shaft Hollow push rods and chilled lifters Cam is a BP 285 with a .472 lift Aluminum flywheel with HD B&B clutch and pressure plate - balanced Electromotive crank fire ignition system - Aluminum front pulley- alternater idler pulley Block was boiled,bored, decked, mains line bored and magnafluxed ARP head studs and main bearing studs installed All internal parts were magnafluxed and balanced - over $2000 just in machine work Block is plumbed for an accusump - 3 qt accusump with manual valve included Also a set of Kirk Racing headers are available. DeanVanDeCarr ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From spitfiresuz at 141.com Sat Sep 29 07:16:07 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 08:16:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <46FDCF04.1020702@razzolink.com> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> <46FDCF04.1020702@razzolink.com> Message-ID: <46FE5017.90108@141.com> Now, I am a novice initiate when it comes to you, TeriAnn! I am always amazed at your experience and knowledge. That's a lot of big, heavy stuff -- no wonder nails have been broken! A Spitfire engine is like building a model next to that. ;) But what a huge difference it will make in your LR. Good luck with it! Susan :) TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > Susan Kahler wrote: > >> Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank >> from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine >> around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P >> >> Susan :) >> > > > Something to aspire to! > > I've been working on a Land Rover project that includes new front axles, > front diff, front prop shaft, all new frame suspension bushings and > rebuilding the transfer case. > > So far I've broken 2 nails! I'm envious of your skill! > > TeriAnn > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From twakeman at razzolink.com Sat Sep 29 09:47:47 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 08:47:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <46FE5017.90108@141.com> References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> <46FDCF04.1020702@razzolink.com> <46FE5017.90108@141.com> Message-ID: <46FE73A3.2030401@razzolink.com> Susan Kahler wrote: > Now, I am a novice initiate when it comes to you, TeriAnn! I am always > amazed at your experience and knowledge. > That's a lot of big, heavy stuff -- no wonder nails have been broken! A > Spitfire engine is like building a model next to that. ;) But what a > huge difference it will make in your LR. Good luck with it! Thanks, but I did get help. I had a friend over to lift the diff out and in and to put 150 lbft torque on four bolts. TeriAnn From WEmery7451 at aol.com Sat Sep 29 10:18:03 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:18:03 EDT Subject: [Fot] No oil pressure Message-ID: Whenever I have run into this problem a few times, it has been one of the following: -Accidentally mounted an oil cooler sandwich wrong between the filter and the block. -A piece of gasket got lodged in one of the above sandwich oil passage holes. -The pin on top of the oil pump drive gear came out, allowing the oil drive shaft to jump up out of the oil pump. -The clean out 1/8" pipe plugs were left out of the crankshaft. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillB at bnj.com Sat Sep 29 10:23:31 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:23:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? References: <20070928.220613.5810.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: None of us really need freeze plugs unless you store your car in an unheated garage with water in it. I use screws around the edge to retain everything, topped with a nice coating of JB weld over a new plug. End of problem. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Joe Boruch Sent: Fri 9/28/2007 7:06 PM To: budscars at msn.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? I lost a freeze plug on my Spitfire years ago and more recently had one leaking on a head that I rebuilt for my TR3. Both were plugs that were in place for years. From now on, I will replace them as part of the build up, so that I know what I have. With my Spitfire I drilled and tapped 4-40 screws next to the freeze plug as a little more insurance to retain the plug. Joe(B) -- "RACER BUD" wrote: Hi Jay....I don't know what TR you are racing, ..I have a new engine in my Spitfire....and the new freeze plugs are leaking..without even being on the track.....I've been told that now that the blocks are getting old, that putting a sealer in the water system is a normal thing ? I could use some input here too. Thanks Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Creel" To: "greg" ; "FOT LIST" Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: [Fot] What came first - the head gasket or the freeze plug???? > While racing today at LRP, I lost the head gasket. Brand new motor, only > 2 sessions of time on it. Upon inspection, the rear freezeplug had "left > the building". So my question is this, is it more likely the gasket > failure caused the freezeplug to go or the other way around? > > This motor was brand new, and it was put together (dad and myself) > effectively. This motor doesn't leak and it has power so why would the > gasket go so quickly? This is why I am leaning towards the freezeplug as > the cause and the gasket as the effect.... > > Thoughts... > > Thanks > Jay > > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Vonage - Official Site $24.99/mo. for unlimited local and long distance calls! http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/JKFkuJO6WhXb5tcDhnoirvNVPggxbMyu 4tRC2AwOzraMz1QEptbT9f/ billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sat Sep 29 10:37:50 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:37:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: I was wondering how that possibly could stand. Especially since Terri and Susan are two of the most knowledgeable members of the FOT. I started to respond to the thread earlier with my technique for spending what I want on my toys, but realized that I don't really have one. I'm doubly blessed, not only with comfortable finances, but also with a wife that doesn't keep score. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Susan Kahler Sent: Fri 9/28/2007 7:41 PM To: dos_gusanos at msn.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P Susan :) dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper > trail.................................. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sat Sep 29 10:48:19 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 10:48:19 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Oil pressure problem solved Message-ID: <000501c802b8$8ab1df50$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> The fact I was not using an old pump drive shaft or something of similar diameter seemed to be the cause. I chucked one up in the drill & gave it a spin and just about pegged the gauge. I suppose I'm glad it was not something stupid I did during assembly. If it was, the whole motor would be suspect. Now, to get it fired up :) Thanks to all who advised. Jim Gray # 102 RMVR From BillB at bnj.com Sat Sep 29 10:50:04 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:50:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Oil pressure problem solved References: <000501c802b8$8ab1df50$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Message-ID: I assume you are turning the shaft with the drill in reverse. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of James Gray Sent: Sat 9/29/2007 9:48 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Oil pressure problem solved The fact I was not using an old pump drive shaft or something of similar diameter seemed to be the cause. I chucked one up in the drill & gave it a spin and just about pegged the gauge. I suppose I'm glad it was not something stupid I did during assembly. If it was, the whole motor would be suspect. Now, to get it fired up :) Thanks to all who advised. Jim Gray # 102 RMVR billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 11:01:37 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 10:01:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0709291001v320cce33r687629ea16c898ea@mail.gmail.com> OK, time to weigh in. My wife gladly lets me race and spend whatever I want!!!! The only catch [thee is always a catch] she gets a $ added to "her account only bank account" for every dollar I spend. A $4000 crank is not on the list. A 1500 Salisbury and a 600 close ratio gear set is for the winter. The only problem with the deal is, we know exactly what gets spent on the car, but I never know what is an expense that should go to her "hobby" money and what should come out of our common expenses. Good luck with the rebild Bill -- the pictures are excellent. On 9/29/07, Bill Babcock wrote: > > I was wondering how that possibly could stand. Especially sinc's e Terri > and > Susan are two of the most knowledgeable members of the FOT. > > I started to respond to the thread earlier with my technique for spending > what > I want on my toys, but realized that I don't really have one. I'm doubly > blessed, not only with comfortable finances, but also with a wife that > doesn't > keep score. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Susan Kahler > Sent: Fri 9/28/2007 7:41 PM > To: dos_gusanos at msn.com > Cc: Friends of Triumph > Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > > Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank > from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine > around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P > > Susan :) > > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: > > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up > of > > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage > with > > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper > > trail.................................. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > > > > -- > ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then > beat > you with experience. ** > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From spitfiresuz at 141.com Sat Sep 29 11:20:22 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:20:22 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: <000501c801e3$85723ec0$0501000a@Chowdown> <46FD30F8.5000702@razzolink.com> <46FDBB59.7020000@141.com> Message-ID: <46FE8956.3020202@141.com> That is an awesome situation to be in, Bill! You are definitely blessed. Teri, one of the most knowledgeable on the list absolutely without a doubt. Me, well, I know some stuff but am blessed with Brad and the kindness of everyone who shares knowledge on this list. FOT rocks!!! :) (Henry was only funning - he's seen my old garage!) Susan :) Bill Babcock wrote: > > I was wondering how that possibly could stand. Especially since Terri > and Susan are two of the most knowledgeable members of the FOT. > > I started to respond to the thread earlier with my technique for > spending what I want on my toys, but realized that I don't really have > one. I'm doubly blessed, not only with comfortable finances, but also > with a wife that doesn't keep score. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Susan Kahler > Sent: Fri 9/28/2007 7:41 PM > To: dos_gusanos at msn.com > Cc: Friends of Triumph > Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot > > Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank > from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine > around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P > > Susan :) > > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: > > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line > up of > > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage > with > > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper > > trail.................................. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > > > > -- > ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level > then beat you with experience. ** > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1036 - Release Date: 9/28/2007 3:40 PM > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From igofaster at charter.net Sat Sep 29 17:57:55 2007 From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 16:57:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] New member prospective Message-ID: <20070929195755.SNUGJ.78150.root@fepweb07> Well guys, thank you for inviting me into the FoT! I'm really appreciative of the friendship and knowledge everyone is sharing and passing along. I really have to publically thank George Curl for taking me under his wing when I went to CVAR driver school at TWS. The #33 GT6 I bought from Bob Davis is beautifully prepared and has been a dream come true for me. The car is fantastic and he is one of many of you guys and gals that should be commended for the quality and knowledge of the old Triumphs which is keeping the relevant, viable , and racing. I appreciate the information everyone is sharing with me to start working on my CVAR transmission issue. I support CVAR in their effort to keep the cars as closely as they were to original. I have no desire to sell the T50 Toyota gearbox, as I won't mind moving it in and out if I choose to participate with other organizations, or another GT if I build one. FYI, I'm listing my 1969 GT6+ on eBay sunday. I've been working on the car casually over the last 10 years or so. It is an interesting car. If someone is looking for a good GT6... it's got potential. Thanks for sharing again, the FoT network... now ..... where can I get some of those cool FoT window stickers I've seen on my car and others? Kindest regards, ya'll..... Bobby Whitehead Texas USA From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 08:38:24 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 10:38:24 EDT Subject: [Fot] FoT Stickers The LOGO seen around the world. Message-ID: FoT & Bobby, I have a stock of the FOT Decals somewhere around my desk. Bobby Whitehead asks for access to these....seems like I should dispose of a few of these to the benefit of the FOT Coffers. Joe Curry might have a few, but I took most of his last overrun and paid him for them. This decal makes frequent apprearances on cars and tow vehicles and tool boxes. Then it appears in magazines. (Not to mention Ted Schumacher's Shirts with the FoT Logo.....and the line from Kas Kastner "Never be beaten by equipment".) Anyway, send $5.00 for each 3' x 4" decal to: Friends of Triumph 645 1st Street Jesup, Iowa 50648 I will send then anywhere in the world by return mail. I'll donate the postage..... Joe Alexander From spitlist at cox.net Sun Sep 30 08:42:21 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:42:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FoT Stickers The LOGO seen around the world. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301c80370$1bbf1ff0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> I will be bringing my entire selection of Decals to Laughlin (Triumphest) in a few days. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 7:38 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] FoT Stickers The LOGO seen around the world. FoT & Bobby, I have a stock of the FOT Decals somewhere around my desk. Bobby Whitehead asks for access to these....seems like I should dispose of a few of these to the benefit of the FOT Coffers. Joe Curry might have a few, but I took most of his last overrun and paid him for them. This decal makes frequent apprearances on cars and tow vehicles and tool boxes. Then it appears in magazines. (Not to mention Ted Schumacher's Shirts with the FoT Logo.....and the line from Kas Kastner "Never be beaten by equipment".) Anyway, send $5.00 for each 3' x 4" decal to: Friends of Triumph 645 1st Street Jesup, Iowa 50648 I will send then anywhere in the world by return mail. I'll donate the postage..... Joe Alexander spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 08:48:55 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 10:48:55 EDT Subject: [Fot] 'Shirt Guys' are in Place for Watkins Glen Message-ID: FoT, Led by Scott Janzen, it looks like Marty Sukey and the Kahlers are involved, too. Scott is going to contact Shirt Supplier Ted Schumacher, for selections and quotes. The last run Ted made, he priced them to kick back a few bucks to the FoT Coffers. This is a welcome feature and we look forward to receiving the cash. Thanks, Ted! This WATKINS GLEN event shirt may end up being something really special. Plenty of time to be creative....and the right folks are in place. We may consider some advertising on the back of the shirt to defray set up costs. We likely will limit the number of advertisers, if we do it, so we dont clutter the shirt. If you are interested in advertising your company on the back of this shirt....please contact me. Joe Alexander From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Sep 30 09:06:15 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:06:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] elgibility question Message-ID: Hey you folks that run with all the different organizations. What is the current cut off year for vehicle elgibility for your Vintage race groups? Thanks, Marty _________________________________________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m kt=en-us From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 09:20:15 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:20:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] Laughlin, NV The Triumphest.... was FOT, The LOGO seen around the world. Message-ID: Triumphest! Good point! A few of us FoT will be at Laughlin for a few days. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday for Uncle Jack & Kent Howard. Joe Curry, will be there, as he says. Then some of us will visit the VARA Race in Las Vegas late Friday and Saturday. Anymore? Joe (A) > I will be bringing my entire selection of Decals to Laughlin (Triumphest) in > a few days. > > Joe C. > From tony at tonydrews.com Sun Sep 30 10:00:28 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:00:28 -0500 Subject: [Fot] elgibility question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070930160125.D808A187A28@autox.team.net> For VSCDA in the midwest, for production cars (I assume that's what you're really after), it's 1973. The model must have been in production in 1973, although your particular example may have been built after that. For monoposto, the cutoff is 1972. For "wings and slicks" monoposto, it's 1979. SVRA is similar. Most of the organizations list this on their websites. http://www.vscda.org/groups.html http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/weblinks/EJEN-5ZGGEU?OpenDocument http://www.hsrrace.com/HSR/HSRHome.nsf/attachmentweb/EJEN-62LRZH/$file/Race+Series+Classes.pdf?OpenElement http://vintagedrive.com/groups.htm (vdca) http://www.varac.ca/classes.html http://www.corinthianvintagerace.com/forms/cvarclasses.html (cvar) http://rmvr.com/category/groups/ I'm missing some of the west coast groups, I'm sure. - Tony At 10:06 AM 9/30/2007, marty sukey wrote: >Hey you folks that run with all the different organizations. What is the >current cut off year for vehicle elgibility for your Vintage race groups? >Thanks, > >Marty > >_________________________________________________________________ >Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. >It's easy! >http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m >kt=en-us >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >tony at tonydrews.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Sun Sep 30 10:13:24 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 09:13:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] elgibility question In-Reply-To: <20070930160125.D808A187A28@autox.team.net> References: <20070930160125.D808A187A28@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0709300913p2498635do1b9df7be0f2245b8@mail.gmail.com> For SOVREN in the Pacific Northwest, it is 1969. Some are arguing for 1972, but I sense there is much resistance -- that would cause some people to "upgrade" their cars -- and it is the cars not the drivers this group ties to emphasize. On 9/30/07, Tony Drews wrote: > > For VSCDA in the midwest, for production cars (I assume that's what > you're really after), it's 1973. The model must have been in > production in 1973, although your particular example may have been > built after that. For monoposto, the cutoff is 1972. For "wings and > slicks" monoposto, it's 1979. SVRA is similar. Most of the > organizations list this on their websites. > http://www.vscda.org/groups.html > http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/weblinks/EJEN-5ZGGEU?OpenDocument > > http://www.hsrrace.com/HSR/HSRHome.nsf/attachmentweb/EJEN-62LRZH/$file/Race+Series+Classes.pdf?OpenElement > > http://vintagedrive.com/groups.htm (vdca) > http://www.varac.ca/classes.html > http://www.corinthianvintagerace.com/forms/cvarclasses.html (cvar) > http://rmvr.com/category/groups/ > > I'm missing some of the west coast groups, I'm sure. > > - Tony > > At 10:06 AM 9/30/2007, marty sukey wrote: > >Hey you folks that run with all the different organizations. What is the > >current cut off year for vehicle elgibility for your Vintage race groups? > >Thanks, > > > >Marty > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live > Spaces. > >It's easy! > > > http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m > >kt=en-us > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >tony at tonydrews.com > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From spitfiresuz at 141.com Sun Sep 30 11:20:24 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 12:20:24 -0500 Subject: [Fot] elgibility question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46FFDAD8.3030504@141.com> CVAR is 1972, although I believe you may run up to a 1974 car that has been backdated to 1972 or earlier (no features that were not available in 1972). They have been working hard to crack down and get cars into the proper specs so we all play by the rules and not infringe upon them. Here's their eligibility paragraph: * 1. VEHICLE ELIGIBILITY / / * *All cars manufactured Prior to December 31. 1972, of any make or nationality are eligible, subject to classification under the current CVAR Vintage Race Car Classification Rules and/or approval of the Corinthian Vintage Auto Racing Corp. (CVAR) Vehicle Regulation Committee. December 31,1974 for vintage race cars that would be assigned to CVAR FIA class. All cars must be presented in race configuration consistent with their original period of manufacture. Modifications for safety purposes are permitted. Modifications may disqualify a car from its being placed in correct race group and as a result, be assigned to another appropriate race group or possibly be allowed only to participate in the Exhibition Group (Group 5). In addition, those cars may not be eligible to participate in CVAR's Championship Point . Rules for cars that are eligible to participate only in the Exhibition/Demonstration (Non-Race Group) Group are contained in paragraph 9. No turbo charged cars.* Keep Triumphing, Susan :) marty sukey wrote: > Hey you folks that run with all the different organizations. What is the > current cut off year for vehicle elgibility for your Vintage race groups? > Thanks, > > Marty > > _________________________________________________________________ > Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. > It's easy! > http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m > kt=en-us > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 30 12:31:57 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:31:57 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c80390$30fdea20$8d20b348@blake1> So, as a FOT wife I can hardly contain myself. I hear my husband tell stories of the many email threads and this one I could not pass up a comment. I think one of my husband's most prized positions in his garage hall of fame is the chrome viper piston I presented to him from my old job at Hennessey Motorsports. If you would like to talk about comfortable finances, let me know. I too can pick out the good from the crap. Please be aware before you start spouting off at the women on this list, that many of us had no brothers so we had to be the son for our daddies. Changing the oil in our mustangs at 16 and teaching our boyfriends how to do things on their cars. I challenge you to open your wife's jewelry drawer and pick out the real from the crap, or better yet pick the good pair out of the 6 pairs of black heels. Again, as said earlier, as long as theirs a paper trail to cover it right? But who is keeping score. After all it is all for fun right? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 11:38 AM To: Susan Kahler; dos_gusanos at msn.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot I was wondering how that possibly could stand. Especially since Terri and Susan are two of the most knowledgeable members of the FOT. I started to respond to the thread earlier with my technique for spending what I want on my toys, but realized that I don't really have one. I'm doubly blessed, not only with comfortable finances, but also with a wife that doesn't keep score. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Susan Kahler Sent: Fri 9/28/2007 7:41 PM To: dos_gusanos at msn.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Crower Carrot Hey now, racer boy! Some of us women can not only pull the $3k crank from the pile 'o cheapies but install it, build the rest of the engine around it, drop it back in the car and not even break a nail! ;) :P Susan :) dos_gusanos at msn.com wrote: > Women can't pull the three thousand dollar crankshaft out of a line up of > thirty dollar crankshafts, so it is important to have a messy garage with > allkinds of crap in it. So all that is necessary is to cover the paper > trail.................................. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** billb at bnj.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ablake2 at austin.rr.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 11:34:01 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:34:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] elgibility question Message-ID: "Carry Through" years in design, too, make certain cars eligible. 1962 TR4 did not change substantially until the IRS made it's appearance, even then it had a solid axle option until the TR250 arrived. A 1965 TR4 can run in "VINTAGE" even though it was produced later than the cutoff date of the sanctioning body. But most everyone likely knows this.... > CVAR is 1972, although I believe you may run up to a 1974 car that has > been backdated to 1972 or earlier (no features that were not available > in 1972). They have been working hard to crack down and get cars into > the proper specs so we all play by the rules and not infringe upon them. > > Here's their eligibility paragraph: > From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 11:47:49 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:47:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot Message-ID: "So, as a FOT wife I can hardly contain myself." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------- We've come a long way.... You should hear the video tape of local sportscaster Bob Brooks announcing the '53 and '54 LADIES Class races at the Iowa City Airport. It makes me cringe everytime I hear it. And to boot, Brooks knew nothing about cars, absolutely nothing....it made it very funny. Joe (A) > So, as a FOT wife I can hardly contain myself. > From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Sun Sep 30 12:13:48 2007 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:13:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070930131348.ttmc2sriocsok8c8@secure.uwalumni.com> Quoth N197TR4 at cs.com: > We've come a long way.... > > You should hear the video tape of local sportscaster Bob Brooks announcing > the '53 and '54 LADIES Class races at the Iowa City Airport. It > makes me cringe everytime I hear it. Back in the day (late 50's, early 60's) the CalClub/SCCA race for women only was called the "POWDER PUFF DERBY". Use of that term today would probably be a hanging offense. Jim Hill From spitfiresuz at 141.com Sun Sep 30 12:23:58 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:23:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crower Carrot In-Reply-To: <20070930131348.ttmc2sriocsok8c8@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <20070930131348.ttmc2sriocsok8c8@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <46FFE9BE.3050002@141.com> I took a course at the local repair shop back around 1982 that was called "Powder Puff Mechanics" and involved such things as how to check and change your oil and windshield washer fluid. I don't think we ever got to changing a tire. When I developed and taught a similar class in Dallas from around 1997-1999, I called it "Basic Car Care for Women," and it involved checking fluids on the students' own cars, how to "read" tires, how to change a tire (with student participation) and how to stay safe in the event of a problem on the road, among other things. I feel VERY strongly that anyone driving a car needs to know the basics about taking proper care of it and staying safe should something happen to it. Funny how some things come full circle... ;) Keep Triumphing, Susan :) spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: > Quoth N197TR4 at cs.com: > > >> We've come a long way.... >> >> You should hear the video tape of local sportscaster Bob Brooks announcing >> the '53 and '54 LADIES Class races at the Iowa City Airport. It >> makes me cringe everytime I hear it. >> > > Back in the day (late 50's, early 60's) the CalClub/SCCA race for > women only was called the "POWDER PUFF DERBY". Use of that term today > would probably be a hanging offense. > > Jim Hill > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From m-syork at comcast.net Sun Sep 30 13:47:15 2007 From: m-syork at comcast.net (Mark York) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 12:47:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets Message-ID: <000c01c8039a$b4139bd0$36b3c547@markv8zno7deim> I delivered a gasket set I purchased fro BFE to the shop building my TR3/4 race engine and they want copper figure 8 gaskets instead of the steel ones in the set. They claim that the copper gaskets seal much better and have stopped the build waiting on the new gaskets. What are your thoughts copper vs steel? Does the copper gasket allow them to be "looser" when building the engine? Are these gaskets really steel or some other material? Who makes copper figure 8 gaskets (maybe Mordy)? Thank you Mark From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sun Sep 30 14:01:24 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:01:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets References: <000c01c8039a$b4139bd0$36b3c547@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: <002b01c8039c$adfd4fa0$0501000a@Chowdown> Another question.. Are the copper ones also covered with a thin plastic film? ~Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark York" To: Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 12:47 PM Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets >I delivered a gasket set I purchased fro BFE to the shop building my TR3/4 > race engine and they want copper figure 8 gaskets instead of the steel > ones > in the set. They claim that the copper gaskets seal much better and have > stopped the build waiting on the new gaskets. What are your thoughts > copper > vs steel? Does the copper gasket allow them to be "looser" when building > the > engine? Are these gaskets really steel or some other material? > > Who makes copper figure 8 gaskets (maybe Mordy)? > > Thank you > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 30 14:02:06 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:02:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets In-Reply-To: <000c01c8039a$b4139bd0$36b3c547@markv8zno7deim> References: <000c01c8039a$b4139bd0$36b3c547@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: <0C69A719-CE92-4442-BFCA-A5ACFE1D8D78@bnj.com> Copper figure eight gaskets sound nice, but I'd get out a cattle prod and get them back to work (unless it's Garmey, and in that case you need a Sheep prod--sort of a Kiwi joke there). The gaskets are mostly space. If you got some teeny grit on the sealing faces then a highly annealed copper gasket might let it punch in instead of standing proud, but that's pretty out there. I can't imagine copper gaskets deforming under the sealing pressure of a cylinder base--too much surface area and the copper is too wide and too hard. Mordy undoubtedly knows best, but it sounds goofy to me. A thin coat of right stuff on a stocker gasket, and just the right thickness to stand all the cylinder flanges evenly above the block face a couple of thou (after you put the head on without a gasket and torque it to about ten pounds, then remove it and check the cylinder protrusion) and Bob's yer uncle. Who is doing the work for you? If it really is Garmey, forget I said anything, the kid knows what he's doing. Or at least Gene, his father in law, does. On Sep 30, 2007, at 12:47 PM, Mark York wrote: > I delivered a gasket set I purchased fro BFE to the shop building > my TR3/4 > race engine and they want copper figure 8 gaskets instead of the > steel ones > in the set. They claim that the copper gaskets seal much better and > have > stopped the build waiting on the new gaskets. What are your > thoughts copper > vs steel? Does the copper gasket allow them to be "looser" when > building the > engine? Are these gaskets really steel or some other material? > > Who makes copper figure 8 gaskets (maybe Mordy)? > > Thank you > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 15:42:40 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:42:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets Message-ID: I really dont think it makes a difference. We have used both. In fact I dont remember seeing copper gaskets recently. We have made and used circular gasket in mild steel in different thicknesses with the laser process, when setting liner height. In any case, NEVER a problem with sealing at the liner seat, that I ever remember. But Mordy, I suspect, could make you some. Joe (A) > > I delivered a gasket set I purchased fro BFE to the shop building my TR3/4 > race engine and they want copper figure 8 gaskets instead of the steel ones > in the set. They claim that the copper gaskets seal much better and have > stopped the build waiting on the new gaskets. What are your thoughts copper > vs steel? Does the copper gasket allow them to be "looser" when building the > engine? Are these gaskets really steel or some other material? > > Who makes copper figure 8 gaskets (maybe Mordy)? > > Thank you > > Mark > From chris at tr4-racing.de Sun Sep 30 15:57:27 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:57:27 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife.... Message-ID: <002301c803ac$e4b7d410$6402a8c0@HOME> Some photos from the last week Nordschleife race.... http://www.tr4-racing.de/pic/2007/nordschleife/index.html cheers chris From chris at tr4-racing.de Sun Sep 30 16:10:07 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 00:10:07 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife.... References: <002301c803ac$e4b7d410$6402a8c0@HOME> <47001DD0.80001@blacksburg.net> Message-ID: <003501c803ae$aeed01a0$6402a8c0@HOME> Very true....but next year....I DO race on this track! > Chris, schade Ihr TR4 ist nicht da :-( > > Jim > > -- > J.C. Hassall > Blacksburg VA > 64 TR4 in autox preparation > 95% finished, 90% to go From chris at tr4-racing.de Sun Sep 30 16:22:20 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 00:22:20 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife.... Message-ID: <004501c803b0$5e73bd70$6402a8c0@HOME> This guy has crashed flies on the side windows.. :-)) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Thomd4BQg From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 30 16:38:41 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 18:38:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] Engine Autopsy TR4 #197 short version Message-ID: FOT The short version is that it appears that the valves siezed in #2 cylinder....the bronze guides may not have been clearanced enough. Jack checked them at .002 & .0025 ID. We are going back to OEM style guides. Too many horror stories and no real benefit in bronze, methinks. The outcomes were bent push rods, bent valves, destroyed piston and liner & bent (but not broken) con rod. Block is junk, but crank appears to be intact with only a nice polish of journals needed. I remain very pleased with the idea of the Chevy Rods residing in this engine and plan to stay the course. Perhaps some Wiseco Pistons are in my future, as they require no pin end spacers to centralize the rod. I was hoping that the camshaft had been destroyed, as it would have caused me to replace it with the new cam design that now available from Larry Young. After observing The Drews Brothers, there is something of substance going on there for those who like to run fast in the mid-range of RPM. (Hats off to Larry Young...with Jack participating in the process) Joe (A) From billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 30 18:04:06 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:04:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear end In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <662E429B-D787-440A-8245-068C82092DDF@bnj.com> I'm rebuilding the bits of Peyote while waiting for the fame to be done. Got most of the bends and tweaks out last week, now I need to weld up the cracks and have a few minor mods to the roll cage done. I want a little more room in the driver's compartment. Anyway, I decided to redo the diff and put in the 3.90 gearset I have. When I took the cover off I found all the ring gear bolts were finger tight--most were turned out several turns, and one was completely out and bouncing around in the diff case--for some time it seems. I found one of the wheel bearings has some rough spots in it, probably brinneling. I'll replace both. The big surprise was that once I put the new gearset in, it was perfect as far as shimming is concerned. I'm kind of surprised by that. The gear engagement patterns were perfectly centered, deep in the tooth, with a little bit of drag. I'm wondering if these gears are a bit more precisely made than I expected. Took me hours to get that kind of engagement with the previous set. Does anyone know what the tunnels are for in the diff case? They look like they would be perfect for using the ring gear as a pump wheel for pumping diff oil through a cooler. I assume they are to lube the front pinion bearing, but they look a little too purposeful for that. I wonder how many more runs I could have had with that diff before it blew to bits. From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net Sun Sep 30 19:31:59 2007 From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 21:31:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Rear end Message-ID: <380-2200710111315979@earthlink.net> Bill...caught that diff just in time!!...you are correct, the tunnels in the case are for lubricating the pinion bearing Chip Collingwood > [Original Message] > From: Bill Babcock > To: fot Triumph > Date: 9/30/2007 8:04:39 PM > Subject: [Fot] Rear end > > I'm rebuilding the bits of Peyote while waiting for the fame to be > done. Got most of the bends and tweaks out last week, now I need to > weld up the cracks and have a few minor mods to the roll cage done. I > want a little more room in the driver's compartment. > > Anyway, I decided to redo the diff and put in the 3.90 gearset I > have. When I took the cover off I found all the ring gear bolts were > finger tight--most were turned out several turns, and one was > completely out and bouncing around in the diff case--for some time it > seems. > > I found one of the wheel bearings has some rough spots in it, > probably brinneling. I'll replace both. The big surprise was that > once I put the new gearset in, it was perfect as far as shimming is > concerned. I'm kind of surprised by that. The gear engagement > patterns were perfectly centered, deep in the tooth, with a little > bit of drag. I'm wondering if these gears are a bit more precisely > made than I expected. Took me hours to get that kind of engagement > with the previous set. > > Does anyone know what the tunnels are for in the diff case? They look > like they would be perfect for using the ring gear as a pump wheel > for pumping diff oil through a cooler. I assume they are to lube the > front pinion bearing, but they look a little too purposeful for that. > > I wonder how many more runs I could have had with that diff before it > blew to bits. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > tr6racer21 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1039 - Release Date: 9/29/2007 9:46 PM From billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 30 19:39:24 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 18:39:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife.... In-Reply-To: <004501c803b0$5e73bd70$6402a8c0@HOME> References: <004501c803b0$5e73bd70$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <8FF07827-6182-4BC4-A8EF-078355CFDA13@bnj.com> I think the Nordschleife would be fun with a Radical, you'd have to set the ride height up pretty height though. A lot of those curves beg for light weight and some ground effects. On Sep 30, 2007, at 3:22 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > This guy has crashed flies on the side windows.. :-)) > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Thomd4BQg > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sun Sep 30 19:41:09 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:41:09 +1000 Subject: [Fot] Oil Filter Message-ID: Is anyone on the list using the "PURE POWER" type of reusable / cleanable filters on their engine? If so do you have some feedback on this product? I am looking at this alternative to replace the STD filter insert on the TR4 engine. Thanks Kind Regards Peter Vucinic TR-4 _____________________________________________ Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 30 19:45:46 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 18:45:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife.... In-Reply-To: <002301c803ac$e4b7d410$6402a8c0@HOME> References: <002301c803ac$e4b7d410$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: Nice pix. That reminds me, I posted a full gallery of the AllAluminumTour photos at http://gallery.mac.com/billbab I didn't remove the duplicates or add captions yet, so it's kind of a mess, though it's arranged by events thanks to the new event feature in iPhoto. On Sep 30, 2007, at 2:57 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > Some photos from the last week Nordschleife race.... > > > http://www.tr4-racing.de/pic/2007/nordschleife/index.html > > cheers > chris > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Sun Sep 30 20:00:09 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:00:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Oil Filter References: Message-ID: Hi Peter.I would put on an adapter for a spin on filter...you can always keep the original stuff on your garage shelf in case you want to sell or show the car Racer Bud in sonoma, Ca. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Vucinic" To: Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:41 PM Subject: [Fot] Oil Filter > Is anyone on the list using the "PURE POWER" type of reusable / cleanable > filters on their engine? > > If so do you have some feedback on this product? > > > > I am looking at this alternative to replace the STD filter insert on the > TR4 > engine. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Kind Regards > > Peter Vucinic > > TR-4 > > _____________________________________________ > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Sun Sep 30 20:34:20 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 02:34:20 GMT Subject: [Fot] Bill Troup's TR4 Message-ID: <20070930.223420.11184.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> While at racing at the SCCA NARRC Chapionship race at Lime Rock this past weekend some folks that raced in the 1960's-70's were telling me about a TR4 that Bill Troup (spelling???) built and raced in the Northeast. Sounded like a car that was ahead of its time. Is anyone familiar with what happened to the car? Apparently Bill passed away some time ago and no one that I came across knew what happened to the car. Joe(B) _____________________________________________________________ Largest network of startups. Find new startup opportunities. Click here. http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlQfILSztxbTZwew2l7Kv0yZSO 8EeKiUMGpbYyvqLlWgoamO/ From clarkfot at cwnicholls.net Sun Sep 30 21:03:12 2007 From: clarkfot at cwnicholls.net (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:03:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Bill Troup's TR4 In-Reply-To: <20070930.223420.11184.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> References: <20070930.223420.11184.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <000901c803d7$9bf3fe90$1442a8c0@semperon3400> Bill Troop (I think that's how it was spelled) was a teacher or principle of one of the prep schools in the area I believe. He had a nice wife and pretty daughter as crew. I remember him stripping the shell off his new enclosed trailer towing around the track at Lime Rock and under the bridge... It must have been in the early '80s last I saw him at the track. Probably a NER member, he was an instructor at the MoHud SCCA driver school at least once. I should have photos somewhere... Of course. Nice dark green car. He suddenly stopped coming to races, perhaps something happened over the winter back then or the daughter went to college...? Clark From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 30 21:40:30 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 22:40:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets References: Message-ID: <005801c803dc$d346cc60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Isn't the difference in the thickness? If I recall the copper, which are no longer sold measure around 17 thou and the steel ones are closer to 15. It's nice to have a couple of thicker ones in the spares box when you want to get the protrusion correct with some of the liners on the market today. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets >I really dont think it makes a difference. We have used both. In fact I >dont > remember seeing copper gaskets recently. > > We have made and used circular gasket in mild steel in different > thicknesses > with the laser process, when setting liner height. > > In any case, NEVER a problem with sealing at the liner seat, that I ever > remember. > > But Mordy, I suspect, could make you some. > > Joe (A) > > >> >> I delivered a gasket set I purchased fro BFE to the shop building my >> TR3/4 >> race engine and they want copper figure 8 gaskets instead of the steel >> ones >> in the set. They claim that the copper gaskets seal much better and have >> stopped the build waiting on the new gaskets. What are your thoughts >> copper >> vs steel? Does the copper gasket allow them to be "looser" when building >> the >> engine? Are these gaskets really steel or some other material? >> >> Who makes copper figure 8 gaskets (maybe Mordy)? >> >> Thank you >> >> Mark >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot