From alfetta95 at optonline.net Mon Oct 1 05:53:48 2007 From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (alfetta95 at optonline.net) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 11:53:48 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Fot] Bill Troup's TR4 In-Reply-To: <20070930.223420.11184.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> References: <20070930.223420.11184.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Joe, I don't know about the TR4. Just wanted to know how you did at the NARRC Runoffs? Was it a large turnout? Todd Redmond ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Boruch Date: Sunday, September 30, 2007 10:36 pm Subject: [Fot] Bill Troup's TR4 To: fot at autox.team.net > While at racing at the SCCA NARRC Chapionship race at Lime Rock > this past > weekend some folks that raced in the 1960's-70's were telling me > about a TR4 > that Bill Troup (spelling???) built and raced in the Northeast. > Sounded like > a car that was ahead of its time. Is anyone familiar with what > happened to > the car? Apparently Bill passed away some time ago and no one > that I came > across knew what happened to the car. Joe(B) > > _____________________________________________________________ > Largest network of startups. Find new startup opportunities. > Click here. > http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlQfILSztxbTZwew2l7Kv0yZSO > 8EeKiUMGpbYyvqLlWgoamO/ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > alfetta95 at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From DSPGTi at aol.com Mon Oct 1 06:41:46 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 08:41:46 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR8 engine for sale Message-ID: Over this past weekend, a friend of mine and I took his race car that we are running in this weekends Enduro at Watkins Glen to a SCCA tech inspector for an annual stamp. Maybe some of you in the East would know Steve Limbert, a long time SCCA official, racer, prep shop and now avid Vintage racer specializing in air cooled Porsches. Since our conversations were mostly about vintage racing and the subject of Triumphs came up, he asked me if I knew anyone that might be interested in a TR8 motor he had laying around for some time. I didn't get many details but I believe he said it was a fresh motor, never run, bone stock, complete with intake but no carbs. I'm sure someone out there would at least have a passing interest? Price?? I didn't ask. I'm sure it won't be cheap. If you know Steve or saw his Toter Home Rig and racing Porsches, you know it takes a lot to support that kind of habit. If you are interested in contacting him, he can be reached by phone, email or visit his very interesting shop in Wellsville (near York) Pennsylvania. Steve Limbert Air Cooled Racing 1560 Old Mountain Rd. Wellsville, PA 17365 _www.aircooledracing.com_ (http://www.aircooledracing.com) Good Luck, Dave Yeager ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From DSPGTi at aol.com Mon Oct 1 06:44:19 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 08:44:19 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR8 engine for sale Message-ID: I forgot to include his phone number 717-432-4116 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 1 07:47:45 2007 From: dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net (dale oesterle) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 06:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] 1300 block needed Message-ID: <307395.48859.qm@web82211.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am once again looking for an early 1300 block (or complete motor)[Spitfire Mark III, FD or FE designation]. Thanks. Dale Oesterle From twakeman at razzolink.com Mon Oct 1 08:24:34 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 07:24:34 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser failures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47010322.3060306@razzolink.com> I read all the replies (THANKS!) and per suggestions have: - Sanded the coating off the condenser - installed a new condenser mounting bracket - added a ground wire from the screw holding the condenser bracket in place to a screw holding the coil to the block - replaced the coil - made a blood offering beneath the full moon to both the Lucas and Mallory deities, requesting that they play well together Hopefully the new Mallory condenser will now last longer in my TR. Thanks for all your suggestions to this evidently all to common problem. TeriAnn From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 1 08:41:57 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:41:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 Message-ID: Can anyone help Jack? What can I pass along to him? Thanks! ......my wife and I headed out yesterday in my TR-2 and met up with 2 other couples, one in an MG-TF and the other in a TR-4. It was one of those perfect days, sunny, but cool! Given the cool air temperature, I wouldn't have expected my car to run hot. However, when we got stuck in traffic, and had to sit for a few minutes, the temperature gauge started to climb. This car has always run hot! I don't think it has ever caused any damage, as I keep my eye on the temp gauge, and if it gets too hot, I just turn the engine off until traffic clears, and I can get out on an open road and get the air moving through the radiator. Besides, these old beasts are pretty durable! So, I've put up with this problem for 15+ years. Enough is enough! I've decided to do something about it this winter. I've already got a TR-6 fan, which will pull a lot more air through the radiator. While I have the front apron off to install the new fan, I'm also thinking about upgrading the radiator. My current radiator is completely stock. I had a new core installed when I restored the car (15+ years ago), and it doesn't have a lot of miles on it (probably less than 10,000). Obviously, it's not quite doing the job. What are the race car guys doing for radiators these days? Does anyone make a high efficiency aluminum radiator, that is basically the same configuration as the stock one, can be bolted right in, without making any modifications to the car, and doesn't require taking a second mortgage to pay for it? If something like this is available, I think this is probably the answer to my cooling problem. Do you know of a source for a radiator like this, or do you know anyone (or business) who I can contact, who might be able to help? Thanks, Joe. Jack From jsnook at wcnet.org Mon Oct 1 09:02:13 2007 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:02:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 References: Message-ID: <006401c8043c$0cd8e8f0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Jack, et al, November last year we installed a aluminum radiator in my TR3A produced by Wizard Cooling of NY. Cost was $495 + shipping. Quite a nice piece, installed fairly easily and has held up quite well so far. I just checked their website http://www.wizardcooling.com/index.htm but could not find a link to the TR2/3 radiator but I'm sure if you called them they could make one for you. Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 10:41 AM Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 Can anyone help Jack? What can I pass along to him? Thanks! ......my wife and I headed out yesterday in my TR-2 and met up with 2 other couples, one in an MG-TF and the other in a TR-4. It was one of those perfect days, sunny, but cool! Given the cool air temperature, I wouldn't have expected my car to run hot. However, when we got stuck in traffic, and had to sit for a few minutes, the temperature gauge started to climb. This car has always run hot! I don't think it has ever caused any damage, as I keep my eye on the temp gauge, and if it gets too hot, I just turn the engine off until traffic clears, and I can get out on an open road and get the air moving through the radiator. Besides, these old beasts are pretty durable! So, I've put up with this problem for 15+ years. Enough is enough! I've decided to do something about it this winter. I've already got a TR-6 fan, which will pull a lot more air through the radiator. While I have the front apron off to install the new fan, I'm also thinking about upgrading the radiator. My current radiator is completely stock. I had a new core installed when I restored the car (15+ years ago), and it doesn't have a lot of miles on it (probably less than 10,000). Obviously, it's not quite doing the job. What are the race car guys doing for radiators these days? Does anyone make a high efficiency aluminum radiator, that is basically the same configuration as the stock one, can be bolted right in, without making any modifications to the car, and doesn't require taking a second mortgage to pay for it? If something like this is available, I think this is probably the answer to my cooling problem. Do you know of a source for a radiator like this, or do you know anyone (or business) who I can contact, who might be able to help? Thanks, Joe. Jack _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html jsnook_gmi at wcnet.org Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gripdad at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 1 11:04:28 2007 From: gripdad at sbcglobal.net (Bill Manning) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] 1300 block needed In-Reply-To: <307395.48859.qm@web82211.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <408691.31111.qm@web81606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dale, I have a small journal 1300 block that looks like it was run for a period of time with worn thrust washers. Not sure if this is a terminal problem or not but if you want it come and get it. I'm in Los Angeles. Bill 818-703-5956 dale oesterle wrote: I am once again looking for an early 1300 block (or complete motor)[Spitfire Mark III, FD or FE designation]. Thanks. Dale Oesterle From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 1 11:25:52 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:25:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 Message-ID: FoT Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in 2008. Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming to the Glen. Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. Two very extraordinary individuals. Joe Alexander From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 1 11:29:01 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:29:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That would indeed be cool. If he does come he should bring his helmet and driving gear. I'd certainly volunteer Peyote for a one session, I be other guys would too. On Oct 1, 2007, at 10:25 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT > > Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in > 2008. > > Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > > He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming > to the > Glen. > > Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > > Two very extraordinary individuals. > > Joe Alexander > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Mon Oct 1 11:33:14 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (CHARLES DELAUER) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:33:14 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm going to talk to Carl Stirtz and the gang about getting Steve Froines more involved in this stuff...He was national champ in a tr4 in about 1964, and is still around racing a lot Racer Bud sonoma ca. >From: N197TR4 at cs.com >To: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:25:52 EDT > >FoT > >Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in 2008. > >Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > >He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming to the >Glen. > >Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > >Two very extraordinary individuals. > >Joe Alexander >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >budscars at msn.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From n197tr4 at cs.com Mon Oct 1 11:47:50 2007 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:47:50 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 Message-ID: <380-220071011174750646@M2W004.mail2web.com> i am not sure but his championship car might be there, too. DON? Original Message: ----------------- From: Bill Babcock billb at bnj.com Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:29:01 -0700 To: fot at autox.team.net, N197TR4 at cs.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 That would indeed be cool. If he does come he should bring his helmet and driving gear. I'd certainly volunteer Peyote for a one session, I be other guys would too. On Oct 1, 2007, at 10:25 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT > > Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in > 2008. > > Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > > He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming > to the > Glen. > > Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > > Two very extraordinary individuals. > > Joe Alexander > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft. Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange From n197tr4 at cs.com Mon Oct 1 11:55:48 2007 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:55:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines Message-ID: <380-220071011175548467@M2W019.mail2web.com> we would certainly encourage that!!! thanks & keep me posted. Original Message: ----------------- From: CHARLES DELAUER budscars at msn.com Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:33:14 +0000 To: N197TR4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 I'm going to talk to Carl Stirtz and the gang about getting Steve Froines more involved in this stuff...He was national champ in a tr4 in about 1964, and is still around racing a lot Racer Bud sonoma ca. >From: N197TR4 at cs.com >To: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:25:52 EDT > >FoT > >Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in 2008. > >Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > >He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming to the >Glen. > >Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > >Two very extraordinary individuals. > >Joe Alexander >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >budscars at msn.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com  What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint From budscars at msn.com Mon Oct 1 12:27:11 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (CHARLES DELAUER) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 18:27:11 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines In-Reply-To: <380-220071011175548467@M2W019.mail2web.com> Message-ID: In fact..the light blue tr4 that tide Ebding races is Steve's 'Ol Blue' championship car Racer Bud >From: "n197tr4 at cs.com" >Reply-To: n197tr4 at cs.com >To: budscars at msn.com, n197tr4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: RE: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:55:48 -0400 > >we would certainly encourage that!!! thanks & keep me posted. > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: CHARLES DELAUER budscars at msn.com >Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:33:14 +0000 >To: N197TR4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: RE: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 > > >I'm going to talk to Carl Stirtz and the gang about getting Steve Froines >more involved in this stuff...He was national champ in a tr4 in about 1964, >and is still around racing a lot >Racer Bud sonoma ca. > > > >From: N197TR4 at cs.com > >To: fot at autox.team.net > >Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 > >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:25:52 EDT > > > >FoT > > > >Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in 2008. > > > >Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > > > >He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming to the > >Glen. > > > >Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > > > >Two very extraordinary individuals. > > > >Joe Alexander > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >budscars at msn.com > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web.com  What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? >http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint From jeff_durant at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 12:57:25 2007 From: jeff_durant at comcast.net (jeff_durant at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 18:57:25 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's Message-ID: <456089628-1191265143-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2124543086-@bxe016.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Do any of you FOT'ers have a recommendation of a good machine shop in the SF Bay Area? I am prepping 3x TR250/6 blocks and need someone to line bore the cam journals to accept Spitfire cam bearings. Trying to get my TR6 #12 back on the track for next season. Thanks, Jeff D. TR4a '67 TR250 '68 TR6 '69 #12 Mini Cooper '69 (yeah, I know!) Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From vintage.racer at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 13:04:59 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:04:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines In-Reply-To: References: <380-220071011175548467@M2W019.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <000001c8045d$f7451af0$e5cf50d0$@racer@comcast.net> Bud, et al: Steve Froines is a friend of mine so I'll encourage him to join in on the fun at The Glen next year. Steve retired from racing last year after selling his beautifully restored Cooper shortly after the 2006 Monterey Historics. He just celebrated his 70th birthday a few weeks ago. Regarding "Ole Blue", his former racecar has been in the capable hands of long-time friend Tide Ebding. The car has not been in action for over a year due to an engine replacement. Not sure of the current status but will find out from Steve. Gary -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CHARLES DELAUER Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:27 AM To: n197tr4 at cs.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines In fact..the light blue tr4 that tide Ebding races is Steve's 'Ol Blue' championship car Racer Bud >From: "n197tr4 at cs.com" >Reply-To: n197tr4 at cs.com >To: budscars at msn.com, n197tr4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: RE: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:55:48 -0400 > >we would certainly encourage that!!! thanks & keep me posted. > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: CHARLES DELAUER budscars at msn.com >Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:33:14 +0000 >To: N197TR4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: RE: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 > > >I'm going to talk to Carl Stirtz and the gang about getting Steve Froines >more involved in this stuff...He was national champ in a tr4 in about 1964, >and is still around racing a lot >Racer Bud sonoma ca. > > > >From: N197TR4 at cs.com > >To: fot at autox.team.net > >Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 > >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:25:52 EDT > > > >FoT > > > >Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in 2008. > > > >Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > > > >He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming to the > >Glen. > > > >Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > > > >Two very extraordinary individuals. > > > >Joe Alexander > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >budscars at msn.com > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web.com  What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? >http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 1 13:05:52 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:05:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen..sponsorship announcement for the Kastner Cup Challenge Message-ID: FoT, I am pleased to announce that Classic Motorsports Magazine is our sponsor for the 2008 FOT Triumph Race at Watkins Glen: "THE KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE" presented by CLASSIC MOTORSPORTS MAGAZINE. Tim Suddard, publisher of Grassroots Motorsports and Classic Motorsports Magazines is sponsoring our race at the Glen and is going to support us with advertising and promotion of this event, as sanctioned by SVRA. Additionally, the Entrant Names, Triumphs and Home State for this event will be published in Classic Motorsports at sometime during early 2008, when the early bird entries are in. Regards, Joe A From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Mon Oct 1 13:22:13 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:22:13 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen..sponsorship announcement for the Kastner Cup Challenge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820AC800CB@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> A true friend of Triumph coming through again. Thanks Tim. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 2:06 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen..sponsorship announcement for the Kastner Cup Challenge FoT, I am pleased to announce that Classic Motorsports Magazine is our sponsor for the 2008 FOT Triumph Race at Watkins Glen: "THE KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE" presented by CLASSIC MOTORSPORTS MAGAZINE. Tim Suddard, publisher of Grassroots Motorsports and Classic Motorsports Magazines is sponsoring our race at the Glen and is going to support us with advertising and promotion of this event, as sanctioned by SVRA. Additionally, the Entrant Names, Triumphs and Home State for this event will be published in Classic Motorsports at sometime during early 2008, when the early bird entries are in. Regards, Joe A rkramer at rdoequipment.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From ofbracing at nefcom.net Mon Oct 1 13:40:24 2007 From: ofbracing at nefcom.net (Don Marshall) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:40:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 In-Reply-To: <380-220071011174750646@M2W004.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <008201c80462$e99ac6c0$2001a8c0@Dell5100Laptop> At this point it looks very doubtful that we'll make it. Don -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+ofbracing=nefcom.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+ofbracing=nefcom.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of n197tr4 at cs.com Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 1:48 PM To: billb at bnj.com; fot at autox.team.net; n197tr4 at cs.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 i am not sure but his championship car might be there, too. DON? Original Message: ----------------- From: Bill Babcock billb at bnj.com Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:29:01 -0700 To: fot at autox.team.net, N197TR4 at cs.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 That would indeed be cool. If he does come he should bring his helmet and driving gear. I'd certainly volunteer Peyote for a one session, I be other guys would too. On Oct 1, 2007, at 10:25 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT > > Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in > 2008. > > Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > > He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming > to the > Glen. > > Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > > Two very extraordinary individuals. > > Joe Alexander > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft. Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange ofbracing at nefcom.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1040 - Release Date: 9/30/2007 9:01 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1040 - Release Date: 9/30/2007 9:01 PM From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 1 13:53:15 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen..sponsorship announcement for the Kastner Cup Challenge In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <834073.33718.qm@web57601.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Thanks Tim. N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT, I am pleased to announce that Classic Motorsports Magazine is our sponsor for the 2008 FOT Triumph Race at Watkins Glen: --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. From trmarty at hotmail.com Mon Oct 1 13:56:25 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:56:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Question Of the Day Message-ID: Ok oh knowledgeable ones, splain something to me. On the TR6 the rear axle assembly consists of a two piece splined half shaft. When the wheel goes up and down through its normal suspension travel the splines allow the axle to shorten and lengthen slightly thereby allowing the hub to be in the same fixed location corresponding to the arc traveled by the a-arm. Im not sure that is the proper description but I hope you know what I mean. Now lets move on to this Spitfire Im tinkering with. It has upgraded axles, one piece design with an outer roller bearing and inner needle bearing. The axles are a fixed length; the stack up is what it is. With this length being fixed, does not the flange location float in relationship to the hub as the suspension travels? I guess that should be a statement not a question. This just does not appear correct in my limited though process. Doesnt this allow a shift in the relationship of the brake drum to the brake shoes? Am I just making a mountain out of a mole hill and I should just accept that that just the way it is? What say ye? Thanks, Marty _________________________________________________________________ Discover the new Windows Vista http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 1 14:16:12 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:16:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's In-Reply-To: <456089628-1191265143-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2124543086-@bxe016.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <456089628-1191265143-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2124543086-@bxe016.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: I don't know if he does that kind of work, but one of the best machinists I know of is in Oakland--Bill Smith at Smith Machine and Quandary. On Oct 1, 2007, at 11:57 AM, jeff_durant at comcast.net wrote: > Do any of you FOT'ers have a recommendation of a good machine shop > in the SF Bay Area? I am prepping 3x TR250/6 blocks and need > someone to line bore the cam journals to accept Spitfire cam > bearings. Trying to get my TR6 #12 back on the track for next season. > Thanks, > Jeff D. > TR4a '67 > TR250 '68 > TR6 '69 #12 > Mini Cooper '69 (yeah, I know!) > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Mon Oct 1 14:30:52 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:30:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Answer Of the Day Message-ID: In a message dated 10/1/2007 3:57:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, trmarty at hotmail.com writes: Am I just making a mountain out of a mole hill and I should just accept that that just the way it is? What say ye? uhh, I think you're confusing the spitfire suspension with a REAL suspension system... Welcome to the world of swing axles! Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From fogbro1 at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 14:32:53 2007 From: fogbro1 at comcast.net (Ed Woods) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:32:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 References: <006401c8043c$0cd8e8f0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Message-ID: <008901c8046a$3e2389a0$6700a8c0@Edscomputer> If you're looking for a TR radiator in aluminium, contact Art Lipp at LIPP04 at yahoo.com NFI Ed Woods From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 14:45:11 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:45:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Answer Of the Day References: Message-ID: <00ba01c8046b$f6948740$0200a8c0@Desktop> Hmmm........may he needs to work a corvair ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Answer Of the Day > In a message dated 10/1/2007 3:57:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > trmarty at hotmail.com writes: > > Am I just making a mountain > out of a mole hill and I should just accept that that just the way it is? > What > say ye? > uhh, I think you're confusing the spitfire suspension with a REAL > suspension > system... > Welcome to the world of swing axles! > Glen > > > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Mon Oct 1 14:58:05 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:58:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Question Of the Day References: Message-ID: <007f01c8046d$c3d01700$2d02a8c0@Belkin> Yes, on all swing axle cars the axle is the lower control element and the spring is the uppre control element. This causes a number of concerns. Increase in positive camber when the suspension is in downward travel relative to the diff. seems to be the biggest concern. But the relationship of the brake shoes and drum is not one of them. theyy area always on the same plain. The main advantage of the variable length axle shaftw on the 6 is that there can be separate upper and lower control elements independent of the axle and therefore not cause such radical changes in camber as the suspension raises and lowers. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" To: "FOT" Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 12:56 PM Subject: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Question Of the Day > Ok oh knowledgeable ones, splain something to me. On the TR6 the rear axle > assembly consists of a two piece splined half shaft. When the wheel goes up > and down through its normal suspension travel the splines allow the axle to > shorten and lengthen slightly thereby allowing the hub to be in the same fixed > location corresponding to the arc traveled by the a-arm. Im not sure that is > the proper description but I hope you know what I mean. Now lets move on to > this Spitfire Im tinkering with. It has upgraded axles, one piece design with > an outer roller bearing and inner needle bearing. The axles are a fixed > length; the stack up is what it is. With this length being fixed, does not the > flange location float in relationship to the hub as the suspension travels? I > guess that should be a statement not a question. This just does not appear > correct in my limited though process. Doesnt this allow a shift in the > relationship of the brake drum to the brake shoes? Am I just making a mountain > out of a mole hill and I should just accept that that just the way it is? What > say ye? > > Thanks, > Marty > _________________________________________________________________ > Discover the new Windows Vista > http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gasket.works at verizon.net Mon Oct 1 16:13:43 2007 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Gasket Works USA) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:13:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets Message-ID: <11122791.30486841191276824057.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> I have made these sealing rings in various thickness. If you look at the surfaces that you need to seal. i.e. the flat in the block and the flat on the sleeve -you can see that they are flat and smooth. I can't see why copper is inherently better at sealing than steel. What I can say is that there will likely be less galvanic effects and material such as brass or copper will work just fine. Even if the the copper were annealed dead soft -I can't believe that the copper would compress and flatten out more than an imperceptable amount. I once saved a cylinder sleave by machining .132" off the top and building a series of individual coppper rings to bring the sleave to propper height. There was still more than enough capture in the block. M M.N.Dunst Gasket Works USA, LLC gmt-8 Pacific time 626.358.1616 voice 626.628.3777 fax From budscars at msn.com Mon Oct 1 16:39:09 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:39:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's References: <456089628-1191265143-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2124543086-@bxe016.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: I reccomend Carl stirtz at Stirtz machine in Oakland He's been doing triumph and other racing and stock engines for years..He just did my Spitfire engine....and is on the FOT..he's building a TR4 and has 2 formula juniors.. stirtz machine 510 536 2772 stirtzmachine at aol.com Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: Cc: "FOT" Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's >I don't know if he does that kind of work, but one of the best > machinists I know of is in Oakland--Bill Smith at Smith Machine and > Quandary. > > On Oct 1, 2007, at 11:57 AM, jeff_durant at comcast.net wrote: > >> Do any of you FOT'ers have a recommendation of a good machine shop >> in the SF Bay Area? I am prepping 3x TR250/6 blocks and need >> someone to line bore the cam journals to accept Spitfire cam >> bearings. Trying to get my TR6 #12 back on the track for next season. >> Thanks, >> Jeff D. >> TR4a '67 >> TR250 '68 >> TR6 '69 #12 >> Mini Cooper '69 (yeah, I know!) >> >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> billb at bnj.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cartravel at pobox.com Mon Oct 1 17:11:30 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 18:11:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47017EA2.10106@pobox.com> I am using a commodity Chevy aluminum radiator (TruKool 22x19) from Speedway Motors for about $140. It fits nicely between the inner fenders with about an inch to spare on each side. It required some creative plumbing and some simple mounting brackets on the bottom. I've got some photos somewhere if that would help. It can idle 15 minutes with no fan before it starts to overheat. Never a problem when you're moving. I believe there are other racers using this setup. For a street car, you'd probably have to use an electric fan. This is ONO (obviously not original). N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > Can anyone help Jack? What can I pass along to him? Thanks! From stutzmans at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 18:40:12 2007 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:40:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 References: <006401c8043c$0cd8e8f0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Message-ID: <004c01c8048c$cb02f3c0$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> Isn't that the radiator the Roadster Factory is selling? Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Snook" To: ; Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 > Jack, et al, > > November last year we installed a aluminum radiator in my TR3A produced by > Wizard Cooling of NY. Cost was $495 + shipping. Quite a nice piece, > installed fairly easily and has held up quite well so far. I just checked > their website http://www.wizardcooling.com/index.htm but could not find a > link > to the TR2/3 radiator but I'm sure if you called them they could make one > for > you. > > Jeff Snook > http://www.snooksdreamcars.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 10:41 AM > Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 > > > Can anyone help Jack? What can I pass along to him? Thanks! > > ......my wife and I headed out yesterday in my TR-2 and met up with 2 > other > couples, one in an MG-TF and the other in a TR-4. It was one of those > perfect > days, sunny, but cool! Given the cool air temperature, I wouldn't have > expected my car to run hot. However, when we got stuck in traffic, and > had > to sit > for a few minutes, the temperature gauge started to climb. This car has > always > run hot! I don't think it has ever caused any damage, as I keep my eye on > the > temp gauge, and if it gets too hot, I just turn the engine off until > traffic > clears, and I can get out on an open road and get the air moving through > the > radiator. Besides, these old beasts are pretty durable! > > So, I've put up with this problem for 15+ years. Enough is enough! I've > decided to do something about it this winter. I've already got a TR-6 > fan, > which > will pull a lot more air through the radiator. While I have the front > apron > off to install the new fan, I'm also thinking about upgrading the > radiator. > My current radiator is completely stock. I had a new core installed when > I > restored the car (15+ years ago), and it doesn't have a lot of miles on > it > (probably less than 10,000). Obviously, it's not quite doing the job. > What > are the > race car guys doing for radiators these days? Does anyone make a high > efficiency aluminum radiator, that is basically the same configuration as > the stock > one, can be bolted right in, without making any modifications to the car, > and > doesn't require taking a second mortgage to pay for it? If something > like > this is available, I think this is probably the answer to my cooling > problem. Do > you know of a source for a radiator like this, or do you know anyone (or > business) who I can contact, who might be able to help? > > Thanks, Joe. > > Jack > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > jsnook_gmi at wcnet.org > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > stutzmans at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Mon Oct 1 19:16:32 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 21:16:32 EDT Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's Message-ID: Isn't Greg Solow's Engine r\Room in your neighborhood? Who could ask for more? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From stlnyc at msn.com Mon Oct 1 19:43:16 2007 From: stlnyc at msn.com (Fred & Mary Hodgson) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 19:43:16 -0600 Subject: [Fot] elgibility question References: Message-ID: Marty- RMVR allows cars thru 1972. Fred Hodgson ----- Original Message ----- From: marty sukey To: FOT Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 9:06 AM Subject: [Fot] elgibility question Hey you folks that run with all the different organizations. What is the current cut off year for vehicle elgibility for your Vintage race groups? Thanks, Marty _________________________________________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m kt=en-us _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html stlnyc at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From m-syork at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 20:17:45 2007 From: m-syork at comcast.net (Mark York) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 19:17:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets In-Reply-To: <11122791.30486841191276824057.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> References: <11122791.30486841191276824057.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <000301c8049a$6c08f460$36b3c547@markv8zno7deim> Thanks to all the input on the figure 8 gaskets, I will tell the shop to proceed with steel. And Bill, I'm putting in a new set of batteries in the cattle prod. The TR3 has been on the shelf for a year (no racing stripes in my nomex underwear); I'm starting to go through withdrawals. Mark -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+m-syork=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+m-syork=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gasket Works USA Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 3:14 PM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets I have made these sealing rings in various thickness. If you look at the surfaces that you need to seal. i.e. the flat in the block and the flat on the sleeve -you can see that they are flat and smooth. I can't see why copper is inherently better at sealing than steel. What I can say is that there will likely be less galvanic effects and material such as brass or copper will work just fine. Even if the the copper were annealed dead soft -I can't believe that the copper would compress and flatten out more than an imperceptable amount. I once saved a cylinder sleave by machining .132" off the top and building a series of individual coppper rings to bring the sleave to propper height. There was still more than enough capture in the block. M M.N.Dunst Gasket Works USA, LLC gmt-8 Pacific time 626.358.1616 voice 626.628.3777 fax Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cak at dimebank.com Mon Oct 1 20:34:53 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 19:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's Message-ID: <200710020234.l922Yr1p021707@moose.dimebank.com> Elgin in Redwood City has a long history of working on little British cars. Dick Nyquist used to swear by Clark's Machine Shop in Mtn View (my listing still has a 415 area code, so it's been a while). I've always gone to Name: Kaeding Performance Address: San Jose, CA Phone: (408) 371-3031 They cater to roundy-round racers, but don't mind working on little engines, too. From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Oct 1 20:37:29 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:37:29 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's References: Message-ID: The rumor is the Engine Room's days are looking @ retirement... hope not. Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: budscars at msn.com ; jeff_durant at comcast.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's Isn't Greg Solow's Engine r\Room in your neighborhood? Who could ask for more? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jeff_durant at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 08:59:54 2007 From: jeff_durant at comcast.net (jeff_durant at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:59:54 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <589333505-1191337292-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1812871117-@bxe016.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Thanks Gary, Bill, Bud, Steve, Kevin and Chuck for the SF area machine shop recommendations! Quite a choice. I best collect up my 3x TR250/6 blocks and make a few calls. I'm excited already as my TR6 has been idle for 12 years. You know the story....the kids are older and when I told the wife I was building my BSA engine to race ARMA in the spring, she told me to race the 6 again. She figured 4 wheels are safer than 2 for my aging bones. What a deal! Just finished 2x wide port heads and a 2nd Stag based CR gearbox. Does anyone have any Kastner 1.88 CR bits? I need a 2nd mainshaft gear for one of his gearsets. Thanks, Jeff TR6 #12 Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "KEVIN LYNCH" Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:37:29 To:,,, Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's The rumor is the Engine Room's days are looking @ retirement... hope not. Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: budscars at msn.com ; jeff_durant at comcast.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's Isn't Greg Solow's Engine r\Room in your neighborhood? Who could ask for more? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 09:09:43 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:09:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 Message-ID: <000001c80506$4358b9d0$171a694c@computer> Would a rear spoiler have a noticeable effect on a TR6 for autocrossing? Would the spoiler cause any eligibility problems for vintage racing? Any thoughts? Thanks, Jim [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From vintage.racer at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 09:48:16 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:48:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 In-Reply-To: <000001c80506$4358b9d0$171a694c@computer> References: <000001c80506$4358b9d0$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <000001c8050b$a68e4560$f3aad020$@racer@comcast.net> Jim: If I recall correctly from a road test article about the Porsche 911 with a deployable spoiler, it actuated at 60 mph which is the speed they felt it would begin to have an effect. I doubt most vintage race organizations would allow a rear spoiler. Gary -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jim hearn Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:10 AM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 Would a rear spoiler have a noticeable effect on a TR6 for autocrossing? Would the spoiler cause any eligibility problems for vintage racing? Any thoughts? Thanks, Jim [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Oct 2 09:53:40 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:53:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/02/2007 10:48:32 AM Central Daylight Time, vintage.racer at comcast.net writes: > If I recall correctly from a road test article about the Porsche 911 with a > deployable spoiler, it actuated at 60 mph which is the speed they felt it > would begin to have an effect. I doubt most vintage race organizations > would allow a rear spoiler. > > Most vintage groups don't want fender flairs, I doubt they will allow a spoiler. I would be against allowing them. My wife has a very early Chrysler Crossfire (two digit serial number). It too has a rear spoiler that pops up automatically at about 57 mph. It looks really neat, but I have no idea how effective it is. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Tue Oct 2 09:57:15 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:57:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 References: <000001c80506$4358b9d0$171a694c@computer> <000001c8050b$a68e4560$f3aad020$@racer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001401c8050c$e79c5d70$0501000a@Chowdown> It would help if the car was aerodynamic to begin with. ~S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Horstkorta" To: "'jim hearn'" ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 > Jim: > > If I recall correctly from a road test article about the Porsche 911 with > a > deployable spoiler, it actuated at 60 mph which is the speed they felt it > would begin to have an effect. I doubt most vintage race organizations > would allow a rear spoiler. > > Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > jim hearn > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:10 AM > To: FOT at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 > > Would a rear spoiler have a noticeable effect on a TR6 for autocrossing? > Would the spoiler cause any eligibility problems for vintage racing? Any > thoughts? Thanks, Jim > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a > name of winmail.dat] > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vintage.racer at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 10:04:58 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:04:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 In-Reply-To: <001401c8050c$e79c5d70$0501000a@Chowdown> References: <000001c80506$4358b9d0$171a694c@computer> <000001c8050b$a68e4560$f3aad020$@racer@comcast.net> <001401c8050c$e79c5d70$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <000a01c8050d$fbd73d40$f385b7c0$@racer@comcast.net> Steve: Good one...thus the nickname of my racing TR4 - "The Flying Brick". Gary -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Belfer Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:57 AM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 It would help if the car was aerodynamic to begin with. ~S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Horstkorta" To: "'jim hearn'" ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 > Jim: > > If I recall correctly from a road test article about the Porsche 911 with > a > deployable spoiler, it actuated at 60 mph which is the speed they felt it > would begin to have an effect. I doubt most vintage race organizations > would allow a rear spoiler. > > Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > jim hearn > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:10 AM > To: FOT at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 > > Would a rear spoiler have a noticeable effect on a TR6 for autocrossing? > Would the spoiler cause any eligibility problems for vintage racing? Any > thoughts? Thanks, Jim > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a > name of winmail.dat] > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Tue Oct 2 10:08:46 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:08:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 References: Message-ID: <00c501c8050e$82e0a2e0$5717c548@RW> On pages starting at 187 of my Historical and Technical Guide (book two) I did a recap and photos of the testing of a rear spoiler I did for the TR-6. back in 1970. It was absolutely marvelous. This was race track testing so I cannot account for slower speeds but in turn 8 & 9 at Willow Springs, it took all the "hee-haw" out of the fast corners. It looked great also. The SCCA would not allow it, and none were ever listed even after my time at Triumph. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 > In a message dated 10/02/2007 10:48:32 AM Central Daylight Time, > vintage.racer at comcast.net writes: > > >> If I recall correctly from a road test article about the Porsche 911 with >> a >> deployable spoiler, it actuated at 60 mph which is the speed they felt it >> would begin to have an effect. I doubt most vintage race organizations >> would allow a rear spoiler. >> >> > > Most vintage groups don't want fender flairs, I doubt they will allow a > spoiler. I would be against allowing them. > > My wife has a very early Chrysler Crossfire (two digit serial number). It > too has a rear spoiler that pops up automatically at about 57 mph. It > looks > really neat, but I have no idea how effective it is. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Tue Oct 2 10:36:03 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:36:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tran-x Message-ID: <01f601c80512$5305fa30$1a02a8c0@workstation3> FoTers, we have 6 commitments for the Tran-x lsd's. They are going to be shipped via ship and we have several of weeks before they will be sent. So I guess we're making the last call for units if anyone else is interested. If so let me or ken know ASAP so we can get them ordered. Thanks, Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 2 10:43:10 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:43:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: FOT....I am in the process of updating the lists of the Watkins Glen drivers and attendees. I will submit this list to Henry Frye for addition to the FOT Website, after a couple more passes at it. Please read carefully!!!! There is getting to more and more interest from the west coast. If you have any inclination at all, let me hear from you. I heard from a couple of guys in SoCal yesterday and added their names. I have not heard from John James, yet, but expect to. Please read the note below from Ron Jacobs in NorCal....he has a potential transport for his car and three more. ....................................THIS MAY OPEN THE DOOR FOR A FEW MORE TRIUMPHS................... Joe Alexander > Joe: > I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa Racing in > Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern > California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to the Glen. I need > about three other cars to make it very cost effective for transport and a > crew. If any one is interested please contact me. > Ron Jacobs > Western Eagle Racing > -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- > > From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 2 10:55:11 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:55:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1DDFFE79-7D15-4EE9-AE8B-B660E5913373@bnj.com> The most attractive way to do this race for west coasters (I think) is to do the Glen, and then the weekend after do Road America's fall festival--Two great tracks with great racing towns associated with them in two weeks. It will spoil you for life--you'll be looking for that at every track you go to, and never finding anything close. In fact you can do the Zippo at Limerock, the Glen, and RA in a three week sweep. Of the three, I plan to do the Glen and RA. On Oct 2, 2007, at 9:43 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FOT....I am in the process of updating the lists of the Watkins > Glen drivers > and attendees. I will submit this list to Henry Frye for addition > to the FOT > Website, after a couple more passes at it. > > Please read carefully!!!! There is getting to more and more > interest from > the west coast. If you have any inclination at all, let me hear > from you. I > heard from a couple of guys in SoCal yesterday and added their > names. I have > not heard from John James, yet, but expect to. > > Please read the note below from Ron Jacobs in NorCal....he has a > potential > transport for his car and three > more. ....................................THIS > MAY OPEN THE DOOR FOR A FEW MORE TRIUMPHS................... > > Joe Alexander > >> Joe: >> I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa >> Racing in >> Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern >> California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to >> the Glen. I need >> about three other cars to make it very cost effective for >> transport and a >> crew. If any one is interested please contact me. >> Ron Jacobs >> Western Eagle Racing >> -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Oct 2 11:03:55 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:03:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser failures In-Reply-To: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Sep 2007, Jack W. Drews wrote: [good stuff deleted]> > Huh. Ididn't know there were two series of points. For the Dizzy that I have there are two points numbers, 25042 and 25042X - the "x" designation is for high RPM operation. > uncle jack regards, rml (about two weeks behind!) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Oct 2 11:06:16 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:06:16 -0600 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <188C216C-F04F-4F8D-AC7F-FEC66EF192B7@earthlink.net> Joe, Put me on the list. I may have to forsake a few other out of town events but this sounds too good to pass up - especially if I include Road America in a eastern "tour". Greg Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Oct 2, 2007, at 10:43 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FOT....I am in the process of updating the lists of the Watkins > Glen drivers > and attendees. I will submit this list to Henry Frye for addition > to the FOT > Website, after a couple more passes at it. > > Please read carefully!!!! There is getting to more and more > interest from > the west coast. If you have any inclination at all, let me hear > from you. I > heard from a couple of guys in SoCal yesterday and added their > names. I have > not heard from John James, yet, but expect to. > > Please read the note below from Ron Jacobs in NorCal....he has a > potential > transport for his car and three > more. ....................................THIS > MAY OPEN THE DOOR FOR A FEW MORE TRIUMPHS................... > > Joe Alexander > >> Joe: >> I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa >> Racing in >> Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern >> California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to >> the Glen. I need >> about three other cars to make it very cost effective for >> transport and a >> crew. If any one is interested please contact me. >> Ron Jacobs >> Western Eagle Racing >> -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > lunkercars at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Oct 2 11:13:42 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:13:42 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/02/2007 11:55:50 AM Central Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: > The most attractive way to do this race for west coasters (I think) > is to do the Glen, and then the weekend after do Road America's fall > festival--Two great tracks with great racing towns associated with > them in two weeks. It will spoil you for life--you'll be looking for > that at every track you go to, and never finding anything close. In > fact you can do the Zippo at Limerock, the Glen, and RA in a three > week sweep. Of the three, I plan to do the Glen and RA. > > While that is a great idea...next year there will be a week end between ZIPPO WATKINS GLEN and the ELKHART LAKE VINTAGE FESTIVAL. This happens because the GLEN event has floating dates (always the week end after Labor Day), whereas the ELVF has a firm week end number every year. Usually ELVF follows ZIPPO the next week end, but every once in a while (including 2008) there is a week end in between. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From John.Reed at wilson.com Tue Oct 2 12:55:35 2007 From: John.Reed at wilson.com (John.Reed at wilson.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:55:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Maybe I should come out of retirement for this one, I always wanted to race The Glen. Put me in as a maybe. Regards, John Reed Staff Photographer Wilson Sporting Goods Co. 8750 W Bryn Mawr Ave, Chicago, Illinois 60631, USA Tel. + 1.773.714.6895, fax +1.773.714.4585 John.Reed at wilson.com www.wilson.com www.amersports.com Please note that effective immediately, my e-mail , phone number and street address have changed. Please update your files accordingly. This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 2 13:17:56 2007 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:17:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-racing TR Events? Message-ID: Are any events scheduled for non-racing Trs? Track touring, old course tour, car show, ??? Maybe I should take The Blue TR3 if Steve will let me do some activities. John From JWoesvra at aol.com Tue Oct 2 13:23:36 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 15:23:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-racing TR Events? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/2/2007 3:18:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jrherrera90 at hotmail.com writes: Are any events scheduled for non-racing Trs? Track touring, old course tour, car show, ??? Maybe I should take The Blue TR3 if Steve will let me do some activities. John _______________________________________________ There are plenty of off-track activities including car shows, ralleys, winery tours, etc. These are handled by the Watkins Glen Festival and you will need to contact them directly. Triumph is the featured marque for the festival too. _http://www.grandprixfestival.com/participant.html_ (http://www.grandprixfestival.com/participant.html) These events always sell out. It is not too soon to sign up. Jack Woehrle ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 2 13:32:29 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 15:32:29 EDT Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-Racing TR Events? Message-ID: John! >From some very early correspondence with SVRA, it was my understanding that the Village of Watkins Glen was going to pay special attention to the TRIUMPH marque. I dont know what the status is of that planning is, but we need it for the press releases, that GRM (Tim Suddard's Group) is going to write for us. Seems like there is always a car show. I am not sure about track touring, but certainly this should be proposed for the FOT and their TRIUMPH Guests. Old Course Touring is highly unlikely, but it wont hurt to ask. There no plans for autocrossing that I am aware of. This was highly successful at Road America, last May, but that was horse of a completely different color. This is a very good inquiry, John. Thanks for asking. Joe Alexander > > Are any events scheduled for non-racing Trs? Track touring, old course tour, > car show, ??? Maybe I should take The Blue TR3 if Steve will let me do some > activities. > > John > From sgroh1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 14:02:48 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (sgroh1 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:02:48 +0000 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: <100220072002.19225.4702A3E8000483BA00004B192213484373CE08019D099C@comcast.net> Joe, I will definitely be attending in my 63 Spit. Also attending will be a crew of 5. Thanks - it promises to be a great event!!! Steve Groh Annapolis, MD #393 SVRA 63 Spitfire -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: N197TR4 at cs.com > FOT....I am in the process of updating the lists of the Watkins Glen drivers > and attendees. I will submit this list to Henry Frye for addition to the FOT > Website, after a couple more passes at it. > > Please read carefully!!!! There is getting to more and more interest from > the west coast. If you have any inclination at all, let me hear from you. I > heard from a couple of guys in SoCal yesterday and added their names. I have > not heard from John James, yet, but expect to. > > Please read the note below from Ron Jacobs in NorCal....he has a potential > transport for his car and three more. ....................................THIS > MAY OPEN THE DOOR FOR A FEW MORE TRIUMPHS................... > > Joe Alexander > > > Joe: > > I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa Racing in > > Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern > > California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to the Glen. I > need > > about three other cars to make it very cost effective for transport and a > > crew. If any one is interested please contact me. > > Ron Jacobs > > Western Eagle Racing > > -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From sgroh1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 14:15:26 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (sgroh1 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:15:26 +0000 Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-racing TR Events? Message-ID: <100220072015.8327.4702A6DE00015325000020872213484373CE08019D099C@comcast.net> John - We'll tow up together....Crew chief position is yours if you want it....which means plenty of opportunity to delegate as you see fit in order to get the TR3 out and about! Looking forward to it! Steve -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "John Herrera" > Are any events scheduled for non-racing Trs? Track touring, old course tour, > car show, ??? Maybe I should take The Blue TR3 if Steve will let me do some > activities. > > John > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 2 14:16:06 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:16:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-Racing TR Events? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <879E6FC0-AB3A-4AC4-8B03-CA040583FAB9@bnj.com> Actually, old course touring is part of the event--they take 150 cars downtown and the featured marque gets one lap by themselves, the rest get two. I did it this time in Peyote, it was fun, and I'd definitely do it again. On Oct 2, 2007, at 12:32 PM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > John! > >> From some very early correspondence with SVRA, it was my >> understanding that > the Village of Watkins Glen was going to pay special attention to > the TRIUMPH > marque. I dont know what the status is of that planning is, but we > need it for > the press releases, that GRM (Tim Suddard's Group) is going to > write for us. > > Seems like there is always a car show. I am not sure about track > touring, but > certainly this should be proposed for the FOT and their TRIUMPH > Guests. > > Old Course Touring is highly unlikely, but it wont hurt to ask. > > There no plans for autocrossing that I am aware of. This was highly > successful at Road America, last May, but that was horse of a > completely different > color. > > This is a very good inquiry, John. Thanks for asking. > > Joe Alexander > > >> >> Are any events scheduled for non-racing Trs? Track touring, old >> course tour, >> car show, ??? Maybe I should take The Blue TR3 if Steve will let >> me do some >> activities. >> >> John >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 2 14:23:16 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:23:16 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: OK Steve, I have you on the list.... I am begining to wonder what the Grid Limit is. Anybody know? Joe Alexander > Joe, > > I will definitely be attending in my 63 Spit. Also attending will be a crew > of 5. > > Thanks - it promises to be a great event!!! > > Steve Groh > Annapolis, MD > #393 SVRA > 63 Spitfire > > From emanteno at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 14:28:17 2007 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:28:17 +0000 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: <100220072028.24013.4702A9E1000C198900005DCD2207021053970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: N197TR4 at cs.com > OK Steve, > > I have you on the list.... > > I am begining to wonder what the Grid Limit is. They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many and someone will figure how to get them all on the track. Irv Korey From sgroh1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 14:32:18 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (sgroh1 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:32:18 +0000 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: <100220072032.2578.4702AAD2000944B700000A122213484373CE08019D099C@comcast.net> I think SCCA's GCR recommends no more than 25 per mile of track....roughly 82 then for the Glen full course.....it's the only reg I know of, though, there may be more..... Steve -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: emanteno at comcast.net > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > > > OK Steve, > > > > I have you on the list.... > > > > I am begining to wonder what the Grid Limit is. > > They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many and > someone will figure how to get them all on the track. Irv Korey From: emanteno at comcast.net To: N197TR4 at cs.com, sgroh1 at comcast.net, westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 20:28:18 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from Multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/html -------------- Original message -------------- From: N197TR4 at cs.com > OK Steve, > > I have you on the list.... > > I am begining to wonder what the Grid Limit is. They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many and someone will figure how to get them all on the track. Irv Korey From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 2 14:32:28 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:32:28 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: > They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many > and someone will figure how to get them all on the track. > Irv Korey > egads! staggered starts? OK! We also need to put more pressure on the Brit's....they might be resting on their laurels after VIR. indication are that they are looking forward to 2012 for the 60TH TRIUMPH REUNION, but that is too long to wait, especially fior some of us. Joe A From JWoesvra at aol.com Tue Oct 2 14:35:25 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:35:25 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/2/2007 4:32:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sgroh1 at comcast.net writes: I think SCCA's GCR recommends no more than 25 per mile of track....roughly 82 then for the Glen full course.....it's the only reg I know of, though, there may be more..... That is SCCA. SVRA does not have a limit except practicality. BRING IT ON! ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 2 14:54:29 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <59923.97578.qm@web57614.mail.re1.yahoo.com> No staggered starts. Just split the Triumphs into two qualifing groups and then have a two short qualifing races (heats), with a consolation and feature race like the dirt track guys. I'm sure the other groups won't mind. Ernie N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many > and someone will figure how to get them all on the track. > Irv Korey > egads! staggered starts? --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Tue Oct 2 15:57:17 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <59923.97578.qm@web57614.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <625757.18371.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and run under current SCCA regulations. Ernest Husmann wrote: No staggered starts. Just split the Triumphs into two qualifing groups and then have a two short qualifing races (heats), with a consolation and feature race like the dirt track guys. I'm sure the other groups won't mind. Ernie N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many > and someone will figure how to get them all on the track. > Irv Korey > egads! staggered starts? --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! jaxonracing at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! From JWoesvra at aol.com Tue Oct 2 16:00:49 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 18:00:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and run under current SCCA regulations. We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage standards. The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national championship and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From trmarty at hotmail.com Tue Oct 2 16:13:35 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 18:13:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-Racing TR Events? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lets find that horse and paint BRG. Marty There no plans for autocrossing that I am aware of. This was highly successful at Road America, last May, but that was horse of a completely different color. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook  together at last. Get it now. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL100626971 033 From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 2 16:28:52 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 15:28:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D6A8D4D-6D0C-4B0C-B999-1EF7B913BB93@bnj.com> Damn (Dinger) On Oct 2, 2007, at 10:13 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/02/2007 11:55:50 AM Central Daylight Time, > billb at bnj.com writes: > > >> The most attractive way to do this race for west coasters (I think) >> is to do the Glen, and then the weekend after do Road America's fall >> festival--Two great tracks with great racing towns associated with >> them in two weeks. It will spoil you for life--you'll be looking for >> that at every track you go to, and never finding anything close. In >> fact you can do the Zippo at Limerock, the Glen, and RA in a three >> week sweep. Of the three, I plan to do the Glen and RA. >> > > > While that is a great idea...next year there will be a week end > between ZIPPO WATKINS GLEN and the ELKHART LAKE VINTAGE FESTIVAL. > This happens because the GLEN event has floating dates (always the > week end after Labor Day), whereas the ELVF has a firm week end > number every year. Usually ELVF follows ZIPPO the next week end, > but every once in a while (including 2008) there is a week end in > between. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Tue Oct 2 20:36:54 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 19:36:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's References: Message-ID: <016401c80566$435c88c0$6401a8c0@TER2> We are not planning on retirement from working on TRs anytime soon! Greg Solow The Engine Room ----- Original Message ----- From: "KEVIN LYNCH" To: ; ; ; Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's > The rumor is the Engine Room's days are looking @ retirement... hope not. > Kevin > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gt6steve at aol.com > To: budscars at msn.com ; > jeff_durant at comcast.net ; > fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 7:16 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's > > > Isn't Greg Solow's Engine r\Room in your neighborhood? Who could ask for > more? > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > klynch_6 at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot stinfo/fot> > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fasttrs at mindspring.com Tue Oct 2 20:46:23 2007 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 22:46:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs 1900 pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a higher level than what SCCA does. The cars from England are another story altogether. Mike Munson Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and run under current SCCA regulations. We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage standards. The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national championship and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director From kaskas at cox.net Tue Oct 2 21:12:02 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 20:12:02 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 References: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> Message-ID: <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Munson" To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > 1900 > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > higher level than what SCCA does. > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > Mike Munson > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > run > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > standards. > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > championship > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From stlnyc at msn.com Tue Oct 2 21:25:56 2007 From: stlnyc at msn.com (Fred & Mary Hodgson) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 21:25:56 -0600 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 References: Message-ID: Joe- Does anyone know what entry fees will be for the event? I'm trying to plan for this myself. Fred Hodgson ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:43 AM Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 FOT....I am in the process of updating the lists of the Watkins Glen drivers and attendees. I will submit this list to Henry Frye for addition to the FOT Website, after a couple more passes at it. Please read carefully!!!! There is getting to more and more interest from the west coast. If you have any inclination at all, let me hear from you. I heard from a couple of guys in SoCal yesterday and added their names. I have not heard from John James, yet, but expect to. Please read the note below from Ron Jacobs in NorCal....he has a potential transport for his car and three more. ..................................THIS MAY OPEN THE DOOR FOR A FEW MORE TRIUMPHS.................. Joe Alexander > Joe: > I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa Racing in > Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern > California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to the Glen. I need > about three other cars to make it very cost effective for transport and a > crew. If any one is interested please contact me. > Ron Jacobs > Western Eagle Racing > -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- > > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html stlnyc at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 23:57:46 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 22:57:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Correct camber on the front end? Message-ID: <000001c80582$52e50fd0$171a694c@computer> On my '74 TR6, I have approximately a negative 1 > degree camber with shims on both front wheels. After an autocross run, the temperature difference between the hotter outside and cooler inside of the tire is 7 to 8 degrees F on the side of the car with higher tire temperatures and around 5 degrees F between hotter outside and cooler inside of the tire on the other side of the car. I have two questions: First, is this close enough to the correct camber and if not, what do I do to get more negative camber since I believe I am at the limit with shims? [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Wed Oct 3 00:22:12 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoffrey Byrne) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:22:12 +1000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Crank Main Bearing Bolts Message-ID: <002601c80585$bd246f50$41e3efdc@co3017577a> Friends Can you guys in the States tell me what ARP main bearing cap bolts/studs you are using on TR6 motors , part number etc . I need some for a new motor... which by the way has a steel billet crank made in Aus Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under From cartravel at pobox.com Wed Oct 3 06:49:02 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 07:49:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> References: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> Message-ID: <47038FBE.3030906@pobox.com> If you remember there was a huge discussion on this for the Hallett event in Oklahoma. CVAR is relatively strict about vintage prep. We finally got the CVAR powers to make a one time exception for an event such as this. They even agreed to allow wedges which are beyond our cutoff date. All of the organizations we've done a challenge with have agreed to this type exception. SVRA should also. This is not a case of lowering standards. It is a one time exception for a special event, so we can run all Triumphs. Didn't SVRA sanction the MidOhio event in 2002? Everyone was allowed to run there. Mike Munson wrote: > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs 1900 > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > higher level than what SCCA does. > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > Mike Munson > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and run > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > standards. > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > championship > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > cartravel at pobox.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From JWoesvra at aol.com Wed Oct 3 07:23:39 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:23:39 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/3/2007 8:49:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cartravel at pobox.com writes: If you remember there was a huge discussion on this for the Hallett event in Oklahoma. CVAR is relatively strict about vintage prep. We finally got the CVAR powers to make a one time exception for an event such as this. They even agreed to allow wedges which are beyond our cutoff date. All of the organizations we've done a challenge with have agreed to this type exception. SVRA should also. This is not a case of lowering standards. It is a one time exception for a special event, so we can run all Triumphs. Didn't SVRA sanction the MidOhio event in 2002? Everyone was allowed to run there. Let me "clarify" this issue. First, SVRA has regular race groups which accommodate everything Triumph ever built. That includes TR8's prepared as SCCA C-Production cars and IMSA GTO cars. TR7's are welcome in Group 8 on treaded tires. We have a place for Dolomites, 2000 sedans, even Stags if race prepared. What we do not have a place for is earlier cars that are prepared to current SCCA specifications. These cars do not fit in any of our Groups. They are not "vintage" cars. Keep in mind that The Zippo race is not a small club type event where we might be inclined to accept everyone. The Zippo is the largest Vintage race in the USA and this year the readers of Vintage Motorsport voted it the Best Vintage Event, with Monterey being second. (Try to get in there with a TR!). Because of the worldwide exposure we cannot go far outside the "vintage" standard. I will consider all requests for entry but I don't see a place for current SCCA club race cars. Jack Woehrle ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Oct 3 07:36:01 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:36:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?KASTNER_CUP_CHALLENGE_-_WATKINS_GLEN=A0_2008?= Message-ID: yeah, I would have to go with Mike here. To say that an SCCA car is not eligible opens up a hole can of worms. The guys from England ran some pretty radical stuff. I am not saying I want to run against a whole bunch of wild cars, but they could get their own class or group. You could play the SVRA does not allow it card, but I race with SVRA and see fiberglass doors on 911s and all kind of stuff. Don't mean to be a rabble rouser, but a standard no here might need to be given a second look. And, I am speaking as a competitor, not as a sponsor. I got involved to help out the club, not to flood the Glen with Triumphs and amass a fortune. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 3 09:04:50 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:04:50 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: I would like to nominate my friend Tom Deats to FoT. Tom is from Littleton CO and a very active member of RMVR and Nostalgia Racing. He is currently racing a very fast FP Bugeye [that he graciously let me co-drive in the Pueblo Enduro last weekend] but owns a TR3 and has been a dedicated TR guy for decades. He is considering putting together a TR racer and is very interested in getting on the list. Seconds from you RMVR folks that know him? Greg Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From BillDentin at aol.com Wed Oct 3 09:26:01 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:26:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/03/2007 8:24:37 AM Central Daylight Time, JWoesvra at aol.com writes: > First, SVRA has regular race groups which accommodate everything Triumph > ever built. > > That includes TR8's prepared as SCCA C-Production cars and IMSA GTO cars. > > TR7's are welcome in Group 8 on treaded tires. > > We have a place for Dolomites, 2000 sedans, even Stags if race prepared. > > What we do not have a place for is earlier cars that are prepared to > current > SCCA specifications. These cars do not fit in any of our Groups. They are > not "vintage" cars. > > Keep in mind that The Zippo race is not a small club type event where we > might be inclined to accept everyone. > > The Zippo is the largest Vintage race in the USA and this year the readers > of Vintage Motorsport voted it the Best Vintage Event, with Monterey being > second. (Try to get in there with a TR!). > > Because of the worldwide exposure we cannot go far outside the "vintage" > standard. > > I will consider all requests for entry but I don't see a place for current > SCCA club race cars. > Amici... Personally, it is not a big issue for me. As I work my way to the back of the pack, I am both used to and comfortable being on the track with faster cars. I'll have no issue if TRIUMPHs prepared to current specs are approved. But there are other issues. SVRA has always been more than accommodating. But as Jack points out, the ZIPPO event at the GLEN is MAJOR and has a ton of aspects that require attention and consideration over and above their featured marques. And, of course, it is a vintage event. Any wholesale bending of the rules can also complicate the award of the KASTNER CUP (which came about well after the SVRA 1992 MID-OHIO event). The KASTNER CUP is a performance award, and has been awarded to racers in 'vintage' race cars. That gets sticky when you include modern cars in the mix. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From billb at bnj.com Wed Oct 3 09:33:01 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:33:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E02DD7F-46C2-4EFC-BEFD-666B8DD4DDD1@bnj.com> True, except Kas has always made it clear that performance is an ASPECT of the award. I have to admit my only reason for wiggling so hard is that I think Mike Munson is a great guy, and I like seeing him race. On Oct 3, 2007, at 8:26 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/03/2007 8:24:37 AM Central Daylight Time, > JWoesvra at aol.com writes: > > >> First, SVRA has regular race groups which accommodate everything >> Triumph >> ever built. >> >> That includes TR8's prepared as SCCA C-Production cars and IMSA >> GTO cars. >> >> TR7's are welcome in Group 8 on treaded tires. >> >> We have a place for Dolomites, 2000 sedans, even Stags if race >> prepared. >> >> What we do not have a place for is earlier cars that are prepared to >> current >> SCCA specifications. These cars do not fit in any of our Groups. >> They are >> not "vintage" cars. >> >> Keep in mind that The Zippo race is not a small club type event >> where we >> might be inclined to accept everyone. >> >> The Zippo is the largest Vintage race in the USA and this year the >> readers >> of Vintage Motorsport voted it the Best Vintage Event, with >> Monterey being >> second. (Try to get in there with a TR!). >> >> Because of the worldwide exposure we cannot go far outside the >> "vintage" >> standard. >> >> I will consider all requests for entry but I don't see a place for >> current >> SCCA club race cars. >> > > Amici... > > Personally, it is not a big issue for me. As I work my way to the > back of > the pack, I am both used to and comfortable being on the track with > faster cars. > I'll have no issue if TRIUMPHs prepared to current specs are > approved. But > there are other issues. > > SVRA has always been more than accommodating. But as Jack points > out, the > ZIPPO event at the GLEN is MAJOR and has a ton of aspects that > require attention > and consideration over and above their featured marques. And, of > course, it > is a vintage event. > > Any wholesale bending of the rules can also complicate the award of > the > KASTNER CUP (which came about well after the SVRA 1992 MID-OHIO > event). The > KASTNER CUP is a performance award, and has been awarded to racers > in 'vintage' race > cars. That gets sticky when you include modern cars in the mix. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From klynch_6 at msn.com Wed Oct 3 09:39:16 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:39:16 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: Message-ID: I will second that nomination as I know Tom to be a real competitor & active in some of the RMVR car shows I've organized. Am surprised & excited to learn he's preparing a TR to race as he's quicker than stink in that damn Bugeye! Kev Lynch RMVR #6 GT-6 ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer To: FOT Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:04 AM Subject: [Fot] Nomination I would like to nominate my friend Tom Deats to FoT. Tom is from Littleton CO and a very active member of RMVR and Nostalgia Racing. He is currently racing a very fast FP Bugeye [that he graciously let me co-drive in the Pueblo Enduro last weekend] but owns a TR3 and has been a dedicated TR guy for decades. He is considering putting together a TR racer and is very interested in getting on the list. Seconds from you RMVR folks that know him? Greg Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 3 09:52:14 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:52:14 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: Ya! Bugeyes are cute and fast. But, a TR3A is more of a 'Hair On The Chest' race car. The TR3A racers are a great fraternity and to be encouraged. Hope he gathers some momentum on this project in time for the Glen. > I will second that nomination as I know Tom to be a real competitor & > active > in some of the RMVR car shows I've organized. Am surprised & excited to > learn > he's preparing a TR to race as he's quicker than stink in that damn Bugeye! > Kev Lynch > RMVR > #6 GT-6 > From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 3 10:04:52 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:04:52 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I do have to stress the word "considering" building a TR racer. I'm sure it would be some time in the future, but enthusiasm from the list will certainly help. Tom's e-mail is TomD4760 at aol.com Does this need to be forwarded to the webmaster to get him on? Greg On Oct 3, 2007, at 9:39 AM, KEVIN LYNCH wrote: > I will second that nomination as I know Tom to be a real > competitor & active in some of the RMVR car shows I've organized. > Am surprised & excited to learn he's preparing a TR to race as he's > quicker than stink in that damn Bugeye! > Kev Lynch > RMVR > #6 GT-6 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > To: FOT > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:04 AM > Subject: [Fot] Nomination > > I would like to nominate my friend Tom Deats to FoT. Tom is from > Littleton CO and a very active member of RMVR and Nostalgia Racing. > He is currently racing a very fast FP Bugeye [that he graciously let > me co-drive in the Pueblo Enduro last weekend] but owns a TR3 and has > been a dedicated TR guy for decades. He is considering putting > together a TR racer and is very interested in getting on the list. > Seconds from you RMVR folks that know him? > Greg Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > klynch_6 at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Wed Oct 3 12:18:49 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:18:49 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <20071003.122100.836.3.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Tom is good people! This will give us something to pick on him about to get him to do up a proper TR effort. I second, wholeheartedly. Bill 70 GT-6+ On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:04:50 -0600 "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" writes: > I would like to nominate my friend Tom Deats to FoT. Tom is from > Littleton CO and a very active member of RMVR and Nostalgia Racing. > > He is currently racing a very fast FP Bugeye [that he graciously let > > me co-drive in the Pueblo Enduro last weekend] but owns a TR3 and > has > been a dedicated TR guy for decades. He is considering putting > together a TR racer and is very interested in getting on the list. > Seconds from you RMVR folks that know him? > Greg Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Wed Oct 3 12:54:14 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (CHARLES DELAUER) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 18:54:14 +0000 Subject: [Fot] NOMINATION OF NEW MEMBER BOB FRANK Message-ID: Hi Gang I am nominating BOB 'HACKSAW' FRANK to the FOT..Bob is a vintage racer and good friend of mine, Bob recently sold his MGB vintage racecar and is moving to the Triumph Camp Please second my nomination of Bob Frank of Novato, Ca. to Friends of Triumph. Thanks Racer Bud Spitfire #21 Sonoma, Ca From billb at bnj.com Wed Oct 3 12:58:19 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:58:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] NOMINATION OF NEW MEMBER BOB FRANK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow. A double benefit. I second On Oct 3, 2007, at 11:54 AM, CHARLES DELAUER wrote: > Hi Gang I am nominating BOB 'HACKSAW' FRANK to the FOT..Bob is a > vintage > racer and good friend of mine, Bob recently sold his MGB vintage > racecar and > is moving to the Triumph Camp > Please second my nomination of Bob Frank of Novato, Ca. to Friends of > Triumph. > Thanks > Racer Bud Spitfire #21 Sonoma, Ca > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 3 13:31:25 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] NOMINATION OF NEW MEMBER BOB FRANK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <229144.62889.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> I am a bit curious about the name "Hacksaw"? CHARLES DELAUER wrote: Hi Gang I am nominating BOB 'HACKSAW' FRANK to the FOT..Bob is a vintage racer and good friend of mine, Bob recently sold his MGB vintage racecar and is moving to the Triumph Camp Please second my nomination of Bob Frank of Novato, Ca. to Friends of Triumph. Thanks Racer Bud Spitfire #21 Sonoma, Ca ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Wed Oct 3 13:52:56 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:52:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Alignment tools for TR6 Message-ID: <000b01c805f6$fe5d24f0$171a694c@computer> What are some good (preferably cheap and/or homemade) alignment tools for toe and camber? When the string is used to measure toe, what part of the car is it set up as parallel to? Is this way of measuring toe better than measuring the tire/wheel comparing back to front? Thanks for any tips guys, Jim [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Wed Oct 3 14:56:48 2007 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:56:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: a slow motion look at the inside of a running engine cylinder Message-ID: Cool video of a cylinder while running. I don't know any of the details, but not something you see very often. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5815350492893860613&hl=en From billb at bnj.com Wed Oct 3 15:34:25 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:34:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FW: a slow motion look at the inside of a running engine cylinder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Pretty cool--I'd like to see more of the exhaust cycle. There's a video around somewhere of the bottom end of a wet sump engine running. It looks like a hurricane in a box. On Oct 3, 2007, at 1:56 PM, Doug Mitchell wrote: > Cool video of a cylinder while running. I don't know any of the > details, but not something you see very often. > > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5815350492893860613&hl=en > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Wed Oct 3 15:22:39 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:22:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] NOMINATION OF NEW MEMBER BOB FRANK References: <229144.62889.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: HACKSAW is Bob's Gang name from THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang.. Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Husmann To: CHARLES DELAUER ; Fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] NOMINATION OF NEW MEMBER BOB FRANK I am a bit curious about the name "Hacksaw"? CHARLES DELAUER wrote: Hi Gang I am nominating BOB 'HACKSAW' FRANK to the FOT..Bob is a vintage racer and good friend of mine, Bob recently sold his MGB vintage racecar and is moving to the Triumph Camp Please second my nomination of Bob Frank of Novato, Ca. to Friends of Triumph. Thanks Racer Bud Spitfire #21 Sonoma, Ca _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! From Roadandtrack at bigpond.com Wed Oct 3 16:04:10 2007 From: Roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 08:04:10 +1000 Subject: [Fot] roller rockers TR6 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c80609$53c65bc0$0301010a@purplebox> Can I please have some comments on the various brands of roller rockers being sold in the USA. I am in need of a set for a project TR6 engine and would like a bit of feedback on good/bad experiences with the various types, eg, any troubles with the bushed type ones?? If anyone has a set for sale, please let me know. Thanks, Terry O'Beirne From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 3 16:11:40 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:11:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] roller rockers TR6 In-Reply-To: <000001c80609$53c65bc0$0301010a@purplebox> References: <000001c80609$53c65bc0$0301010a@purplebox> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710031511o4e01a5dbq26ee4107d406cd13@mail.gmail.com> Been very happy with the set I got from Ted Schumaker at TSI [1.5 ratio] On 10/3/07, Terry and Cindy wrote: > > Can I please have some comments on the various brands of roller rockers > being sold in the USA. I am in need of a set for a project TR6 engine > and would like a bit of feedback on good/bad experiences with the > various types, eg, any troubles with the bushed type ones?? > If anyone has a set for sale, please let me know. > Thanks, Terry O'Beirne > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Wed Oct 3 16:24:59 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:24:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tran-x References: <01f601c80512$5305fa30$1a02a8c0@workstation3> <4704113E.2000002@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <02f501c8060c$3cad8c80$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Greg I believe this is correct, these are the Salisbury design as bought by a group in Germany. To be sure I would direct your questions to Ken Gilanders and he will be able to answer it. Telephone/Fax: 626-443-0939 Email: bfeken at copper.net Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "greg" To: "Charly Mitchel" Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Tran-x > Are these Salisbury clutch type and if so are they the proper 4 pinion > design? Two pinion won't hold up to the TR weight and torque. > Thanks, > Greg > > Charly Mitchel wrote: > > FoTers, > > we have 6 commitments for the Tran-x lsd's. They are going to be shipped via > > ship and we have several of weeks before they will be sent. So I guess we're > > making the last call for units if anyone else is interested. If so let me or > > ken know ASAP so we can get them ordered. > > Thanks, > > Charly Mitchel > > TR6 #44 > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > gtlund at cyberspeedway.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 3 16:30:40 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:30:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tran-x In-Reply-To: <02f501c8060c$3cad8c80$1a02a8c0@workstation3> References: <01f601c80512$5305fa30$1a02a8c0@workstation3> <4704113E.2000002@cyberspeedway.net> <02f501c8060c$3cad8c80$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710031530k4e8b13eaj23743ae4fe096582@mail.gmail.com> See:http://www.tran-x.com/DiffsHTML/TR6.html for a picture Chuck On 10/3/07, Charly Mitchel wrote: > > Greg I believe this is correct, these are the Salisbury design as bought > by > a group in Germany. To be sure I would direct your questions to Ken > Gilanders and he will be able to answer it. > Telephone/Fax: 626-443-0939 > Email: bfeken at copper.net > > Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "greg" > To: "Charly Mitchel" > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:01 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Tran-x > > > > Are these Salisbury clutch type and if so are they the proper 4 pinion > > design? Two pinion won't hold up to the TR weight and torque. > > Thanks, > > Greg > > > > Charly Mitchel wrote: > > > FoTers, > > > we have 6 commitments for the Tran-x lsd's. They are going to be > shipped via > > > ship and we have several of weeks before they will be sent. So I > guess > we're > > > making the last call for units if anyone else is interested. If so > let > me or > > > ken know ASAP so we can get them ordered. > > > Thanks, > > > Charly Mitchel > > > TR6 #44 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > > > gtlund at cyberspeedway.net > > > Fot mailing list > > > Fot at autox.team.net > > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From jaboruch at netzero.net Wed Oct 3 17:47:25 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 23:47:25 GMT Subject: [Fot] Alignment tools for TR6 Message-ID: <20071003.194725.196.0@webmail15.dca.untd.com> I have found that toe plates work well and are easy to carry to the track and use. They are available from a variety of suppliers and ebay. I have a camber gauge that is basically a calibrated level. I think I got it from Racer Wholesale. It is simple, small and it works. Joe(B) -- "jim hearn" wrote: What are some good (preferably cheap and/or homemade) alignment tools for toe and camber? When the string is used to measure toe, what part of the car is it set up as parallel to? Is this way of measuring toe better than measuring the tire/wheel comparing back to front? Thanks for any tips guys, Jim [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Not making enough money? Click here to get free info on medical jobs http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmPZJum11IthXdNxBrDO6Rmu oYbtQZmbWhYB1MkM5XEVTOqN/ From vintage.racer at comcast.net Wed Oct 3 17:58:59 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:58:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] You'll want to watch this Message-ID: <000301c80619$5e968150$1bc383f0$@racer@comcast.net> Hello All: Mark Oct.6 (Saturday) on your calendar for a new show on the Discovery channel which will premiere a special on the Ralph Lauren car collection. See the attached link for info: http://special.polo.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/nu820MKX8U0JJ8085d0GU Gary From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Wed Oct 3 20:56:08 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 21:56:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR3 piston rookie question Message-ID: <003901c80632$1daae690$8d20b348@blake1> Can anyone tell me the crown height for a stock TR3 piston? If I order the stock height + .005, will I have enough extra to mill off to get a zero deck height? As far as I know the block has not been decked in the past. Thanks, Greg From rjl at gt-classics.com Wed Oct 3 20:20:51 2007 From: rjl at gt-classics.com (R. John Lye) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:20:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Alignment tools for TR6 In-Reply-To: <20071003.194725.196.0@webmail15.dca.untd.com> References: <20071003.194725.196.0@webmail15.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: >-- "jim hearn" wrote: >What are some good (preferably cheap and/or homemade) alignment tools for >toe and camber? When the string is used to measure toe, what part of the >car is it set up as parallel to? They need to be parallel to the center line of the car. >Is this way of measuring toe better than >measuring the tire/wheel comparing back to front? It helps make sure that the car is "square" - if you just measure using toe plates, its possible to get the right toe, but not be square to the centerline of the car. That said, if you start with a correctly aligned car, toe plates will keep you close. R. John Lye rjl6n at cstone.net From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 3 20:34:01 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:34:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] The Kastner Cup Challenge at The Glen Message-ID: FoT, Lots of great stuff came in today. My view of the "Kastner Cup Challenge", if I may: This "Event" is a celebration of our Triumph Cars and the honoring of Kas Kastner, who brought (and still does bring) so much to our sport. The "RACE" is about Performance, Presentation, and the People who race these cars. SVRA has always done been extrordinarily fair & balanced with our Triumphs and the issues of eligibility. Not to mention the opportunity & encouragement for us to get together at the storied venues of North America. Watkins Glen is going to be one hell of show............. I'd like to see everybody there. It IS the "FRIENDS OF TRIUMPH". Thanks! Joe A From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 2 21:34:54 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 20:34:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> References: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: Basic "visiting firemen" courtesy though to let the Brits run. It's a common problem in vintage racing of all stripes. When I helped put on the Columbia River Classic race with SOVREN I was pestering the competition committee to grant a waiver for some cars so we could get a bunch of non-conforming cars to run--it was a small event that we wanted to grow, and there are a lot of cars in Portland and Northern California that meet SCCA requirements but not SOVREN. They said there's no way we will grant a waiver, but we don't prevent people from running their cars when they first want to run with us. Have them enter and give us an honest description of their cars. We'll consult with them during tech and point out the non- conforming elements. As long as they make progress toward bringing their cars into conformance then we'll work with them." I thought that was a pretty masterful way to include people in the event and move them towards full participation. And in fact many of the guys here have started or even completely moved their cars into conformance. It was interesting to note that the non-conforming cars had no apparent competitive advantage. They got waxed by the regulars. I don't know if that's a way that the SVRA would agree to work, but it seems inclusion and ultimate correction is a more constructive policy than exclusion. On Oct 2, 2007, at 8:12 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but > they do > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Munson" > To: ; ; > ; > ; ; ; > ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > >> Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite >> understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm >> fuel >> injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also >> weighs >> 1900 >> pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. >> I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage >> organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car >> to a >> higher level than what SCCA does. >> >> The cars from England are another story altogether. >> >> Mike Munson >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 >> >> In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: >> >> Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a >> class >> within the run group that will support my car? My spit is >> prepared and >> run >> >> under current SCCA regulations. >> >> >> We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted >> vintage >> standards. >> >> The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national >> championship >> and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. >> >> Jack Woehrle >> SVRA Technical Director >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Wed Oct 3 08:23:50 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:23:50 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/02/2007 10:13:07 PM Central Daylight Time, kaskas at cox.net writes: > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do > > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > A couple of them had TRIUMPH parts on them. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From keithfiles at btinternet.com Tue Oct 2 23:52:26 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 06:52:26 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <20071003055439.C53BD18763D@autox.team.net> It was in recognition of this great disparity that I chose to have Uncle Jack and Joe A find and build a US TR4 to your regulations and leave my UK modified TR6 at home; seemed the fair and right thing to do. Cheers, Keith -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kas Kastner Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Munson" To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > 1900 > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > higher level than what SCCA does. > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > Mike Munson > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > run > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > standards. > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > championship > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From sgroh1 at comcast.net Wed Oct 3 16:48:31 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (Steven Groh) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 18:48:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 References: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <002301c8060f$863b2bc0$6401a8c0@steven2sbouwlk> I have to pipe in here. I am one of those who moved their car into compliance. Having just spent $2,800 after a ton of searching to replace my non-conforming fiberglass Spitfire bonnet (in compliance with HSR and VARA, by the way) for a steel bonnet so that I would be in compliance with SVRA's rules, I would definitely NOT be happy if the rules were not uniformly applied or were arbitrarily applied. A governing body of technical experts enforcing the rules is one reason I joined SVRA. I think this would further open a flood gate of exceptions. Secondly, this is the Zippo GP for crying out loud. If any event should have vintage rules enforced, it should be this one. I'm all for a comprehensive Triumph meet, and with all countries represented, too. I just don't think SVRA and the Glen are the right combination for this. How about a "non-championship" looser-format event with VARAC at Mosport? Or HSR at Road Atlanta? Or some other sanctioning body at the Glen? Then I'll put the glass bonnet back on and join the fun. Steve Groh SVRA #393 63 Spitfire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Kas Kastner" Cc: "Mike Munson" ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > Basic "visiting firemen" courtesy though to let the Brits run. It's a > common problem in vintage racing of all stripes. > > When I helped put on the Columbia River Classic race with SOVREN I was > pestering the competition committee to grant a waiver for some cars so we > could get a bunch of non-conforming cars to run--it was a small event > that we wanted to grow, and there are a lot of cars in Portland and > Northern California that meet SCCA requirements but not SOVREN. They said > there's no way we will grant a waiver, but we don't prevent people from > running their cars when they first want to run with us. Have them enter > and give us an honest description of their cars. We'll consult with them > during tech and point out the non- conforming elements. As long as they > make progress toward bringing their cars into conformance then we'll work > with them." > > I thought that was a pretty masterful way to include people in the event > and move them towards full participation. And in fact many of the guys > here have started or even completely moved their cars into conformance. > It was interesting to note that the non-conforming cars had no apparent > competitive advantage. They got waxed by the regulars. > > I don't know if that's a way that the SVRA would agree to work, but it > seems inclusion and ultimate correction is a more constructive policy > than exclusion. > > > On Oct 2, 2007, at 8:12 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > >> Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they >> do >> not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike Munson" >> To: ; ; ; >> ; ; ; >> ; >> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM >> Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 >> >> >>> Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite >>> understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel >>> injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs >>> 1900 >>> pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. >>> I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage >>> organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a >>> higher level than what SCCA does. >>> >>> The cars from England are another story altogether. >>> >>> Mike Munson >>> >>> >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 >>> >>> In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>> jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: >>> >>> Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a >>> class >>> within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and >>> run >>> >>> under current SCCA regulations. >>> >>> >>> We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted >>> vintage >>> standards. >>> >>> The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national >>> championship >>> and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. >>> >>> Jack Woehrle >>> SVRA Technical Director >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> kaskas at cox.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> billb at bnj.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Thu Oct 4 00:09:14 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:09:14 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Tran-x In-Reply-To: <02f501c8060c$3cad8c80$1a02a8c0@workstation3> References: <01f601c80512$5305fa30$1a02a8c0@workstation3> <4704113E.2000002@cyberspeedway.net> <02f501c8060c$3cad8c80$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Message-ID: <0A2479ED-018E-4044-ACEE-3E117D0A7AB6@earthlink.net> Thanks Chuck, I'm going to pass. My car wins races as is and I've decided that I can develop my rear suspension a bit more before a LSD. Greg On Oct 3, 2007, at 4:24 PM, Charly Mitchel wrote: > Greg I believe this is correct, these are the Salisbury design as > bought by > a group in Germany. To be sure I would direct your questions to Ken > Gilanders and he will be able to answer it. > Telephone/Fax: 626-443-0939 > Email: bfeken at copper.net > > Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "greg" > To: "Charly Mitchel" > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:01 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Tran-x > > >> Are these Salisbury clutch type and if so are they the proper 4 >> pinion >> design? Two pinion won't hold up to the TR weight and torque. >> Thanks, >> Greg >> >> Charly Mitchel wrote: >>> FoTers, >>> we have 6 commitments for the Tran-x lsd's. They are going to be > shipped via >>> ship and we have several of weeks before they will be sent. So I >>> guess > we're >>> making the last call for units if anyone else is interested. If >>> so let > me or >>> ken know ASAP so we can get them ordered. >>> Thanks, >>> Charly Mitchel >>> TR6 #44 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> gtlund at cyberspeedway.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > lunkercars at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Oct 4 06:47:58 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 07:47:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fan Belt Message-ID: FoT, At the September Road America event, I began to throw fan belts off my TR6. I had no problems with the fan belt at the previous race event. Nothing was changed on the engine. I run aluminum pulley's on the crank, water pump and alternator (4.5" pulley on a Denso). All pulley's are for a 3/8" belt. We could not see any run out of the belt with the engine running at high idle. We checked the plane of the pulley's and made a minor adjustment with shimming the alternator bracket. The water pump had a very small amount of play in it but it seemed insignificant. When i got home, I measured the NAPA belt width and found that it was 13/32" wide - 1/32" wider than 3/8". I went back to NAPA but couldn't find an exact 3/8" width in their inventory. Could this be the issue? When installed, the belt sat above the top of the pulley by a hair. Is this enough for it to walk up and out at high RPM? Why did it just start to do this? Is the wiggle in the water pump a new occurrence causing the problem? The water pump is fairly new. Where are others buying their fan belts and are they 3/8"? Allen Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From tony at tonydrews.com Thu Oct 4 06:54:19 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 07:54:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fan Belt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071004125528.ADA02187A10@autox.team.net> I ended up with a slightly narrower belt that sits deeper in the grooves. My pulley alignment isn't the greatest in the world, but it stays put (knock on wood). Got the belt at the local farm equipment place (farm and fleet). - Tony At 07:47 AM 10/4/2007, Allen Washatko wrote: >FoT, > >At the September Road America event, I began to throw fan belts off my >TR6. I had no problems with the fan belt at the previous race event. >Nothing was changed on the engine. I run aluminum pulley's on the >crank, water pump and alternator (4.5" pulley on a Denso). All pulley's >are for a 3/8" belt. We could not see any run out of the belt with the >engine running at high idle. We checked the plane of the pulley's and >made a minor adjustment with shimming the alternator bracket. The water >pump had a very small amount of play in it but it seemed insignificant. >When i got home, I measured the NAPA belt width and found that it was >13/32" wide - 1/32" wider than 3/8". I went back to NAPA but couldn't >find an exact 3/8" width in their inventory. Could this be the issue? >When installed, the belt sat above the top of the pulley by a hair. Is >this enough for it to walk up and out at high RPM? Why did it just >start to do this? Is the wiggle in the water pump a new occurrence >causing the problem? The water pump is fairly new. Where are others >buying their fan belts and are they 3/8"? > >Allen > > > >Jody & Allen Washatko >N65 W5567 Columbia Road >Cedarburg, WI. 53012 >USA > >tel. (262) 375-6888 >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >tony at tonydrews.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From S.Janzen at comcast.net Thu Oct 4 07:08:34 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:08:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Alignment tools for TR6 References: <000b01c805f6$fe5d24f0$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <001f01c80687$ac668290$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> It takes a while, but first level the four tire contact points - vinyl floor tiles or masonite work well. Then get out a tape measure, plumb bob and tape, and determine the centerline of the car by dropping the plumb bob off the inner suspension points nd putting a tape line down the floor under the center of the car. fron there you can measure off the centerline - for my formula ford with adjustable rod end suspension I could get the whole car aligned symetrically. Toe fore and aft can now be determined by setting up jack stands at the four corners and running string down the sides of the car at wheel center height. Now you have a line to measure off of to the leading and trailing edges of the wheels. For camber, you have to get one of those a frame shaped digital camber/castor checkers - look in the ads in Sportscar or Grassroots Motorsports, or any of the race stuff suppliers - Truechoice, pegasus, others - and you'll find one. It's slow and painstaking but if you are careful you can do a good job this way. Of course, every time you jack up the car to make an adjustment you have to go back and re-set the car on the floor! ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:52 PM Subject: [Fot] Alignment tools for TR6 > What are some good (preferably cheap and/or homemade) alignment tools for > toe and camber? When the string is used to measure toe, what part of the > car is it set up as parallel to? Is this way of measuring toe better than > measuring the tire/wheel comparing back to front? Thanks for any tips > guys, > Jim > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cartravel at pobox.com Thu Oct 4 07:31:16 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:31:16 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR3 piston rookie question In-Reply-To: <003901c80632$1daae690$8d20b348@blake1> References: <003901c80632$1daae690$8d20b348@blake1> Message-ID: <4704EB24.3010706@pobox.com> I believe your asking for the compression height, i.e. the distance from the wrist pin center to the top of the piston. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you need a 2.000 in compression height to put the top of the piston level with the deck. Greg & Alison Blake wrote: > Can anyone tell me the crown height for a stock TR3 piston? If I order > the stock height + .005, will I have enough extra to mill off to get a > zero deck height? As far as I know the block has not been decked in the > past. > > Thanks, > > Greg > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > cartravel at pobox.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From klynch_6 at msn.com Thu Oct 4 08:40:14 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 08:40:14 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Dario in a Door Slammer Message-ID: Franchitti goes to Nascar... sans the doors! Kevin From walt at hot-tr6.com Thu Oct 4 09:23:24 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:23:24 -0600 Subject: [Fot] transportation needed-long shot Message-ID: <20071004152414.49D201879BC@autox.team.net> I have a bare TR6 engine block and a crankshaft I need transported from Fort Pierce, Florida 34947 to Albuquerque, New Mexico 87111 Just in case anyone can help and could use some gas money for this service. Thank You Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, NM From Group44TR7 at aol.com Thu Oct 4 09:58:49 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:58:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - Message-ID: Amici I do not believe that a year has gone by whilst I have been an FOT participant ( 199?) that the subject of requirements of various sanctioning bodies has not been a topic of FOT discussion. Especially the requirements to meet specific preparation requirements, which for many Triumphs is the 1972 SCCA GRC. Frankly I do not know where and when it was first decided to use the 1972 SCCA GRC, but I do know that it was already in use when I started vintage racing in about 1990. It has always struck me as particularly ironic that the body work modification (wheel flares) that were allowed in 1972 were not allowed in vintage racing and that relatively little was actually being done at many events to enforce adherence to preparation of 1972 GRC engine specifications other than obvious visible modifications like the carbs. One of the benefits of owning a Group 44 racecar, as I am sure it is with Kas's old racecars as well, is to see the innovation that was done within the rules to make the cars more competitive. One of the frustration is that keeping the car as it was originally raced means that you are at a competitive disadvantage to other historic as well as newly constucted vintage racecars that are using the latest technology. As a driver/owner, you simply have to accept that you never going to be the fastest car on the track as they were in their day. The second point that I would like to make is that alot of time has passed since I first did vintage racing. I am glad that SVAR has opened the door for participation by post 1972 cars that have have a racing history. If I can change what is a major conflict in my business schedule with the Watkins Glen event and some other logisitcal challenges, you all just might get to see the Group 44 TR7 - Aussy Playboy TR7 in action at the Glen for the first time since 1975. If its slower than you expected - well some of you know Bob Tullius, and I am not anywhere close to Bob Tullius. It truly a great priviledge to even drive the same car as the him. Cary ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Oct 4 10:03:13 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:03:13 EDT Subject: [Fot] FW: a slow motion look at the inside of a running engine cylinder Message-ID: In a message dated 10/03/2007 4:36:11 PM Central Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: > Pretty cool--I'd like to see more of the exhaust cycle. There's a > video around somewhere of the bottom end of a wet sump engine > running. It looks like a hurricane in a box. > My racing partner, Bob Wismer (an ex-Deere engineer), found it to be amazing. He finds it looks very different from a direct-injected diesel engine, which he's seen many times. He also said if this was his engine head, I would work on "swirl." I don't know what that means, but I'll ask him to explain it at one of our MID-OHIO breakfast meetings (unless Shirley makes us talk about quilting). Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From billb at bnj.com Thu Oct 4 10:03:46 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:03:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <213035CF-A262-4A83-A844-28E8AB18B76A@bnj.com> Sovren is going through a fierce debate on changing their eligibility requirements from 1968 to 1972. So far I think most members want to stick with 1968, though I think it limits the participation of people from other clubs. It's too bad there isn't enough cooperation at a national level to enable vintage eligibility to be defined country-wide. On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > Amici > > I do not believe that a year has gone by whilst I have been an > FOT participant ( 199?) that the subject of requirements of various > sanctioning bodies has not been a topic of FOT discussion. > Especially the requirements to meet specific preparation > requirements, which for many Triumphs is the 1972 SCCA GRC. > > Frankly I do not know where and when it was first decided to > use the 1972 SCCA GRC, but I do know that it was already in use > when I started vintage racing in about 1990. It has always struck > me as particularly ironic that the body work modification (wheel > flares) that were allowed in 1972 were not allowed in vintage > racing and that relatively little was actually being done at many > events to enforce adherence to preparation of 1972 GRC engine > specifications other than obvious visible modifications like the > carbs. > > One of the benefits of owning a Group 44 racecar, as I am sure > it is with Kas's old racecars as well, is to see the innovation > that was done within the rules to make the cars more competitive. > One of the frustration is that keeping the car as it was originally > raced means that you are at a competitive disadvantage to other > historic as well as newly constucted vintage racecars that are > using the latest technology. As a driver/owner, you simply have to > accept that you never going to be the fastest car on the track as > they were in their day. > > The second point that I would like to make is that alot of time > has passed since I first did vintage racing. I am glad that SVAR > has opened the door for participation by post 1972 cars that have > have a racing history. If I can change what is a major conflict in > my business schedule with the Watkins Glen event and some other > logisitcal challenges, you all just might get to see the Group 44 > TR7 - Aussy Playboy TR7 in action at the Glen for the first time > since 1975. > > If its slower than you expected - well some of you know Bob > Tullius, and I am not anywhere close to Bob Tullius. It truly a > great priviledge to even drive the same car as the him. > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 4 12:14:30 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 14:14:30 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR3/TR4 Cam Core Needed Message-ID: FoT, I thought I had a couple, but I dont. I need a suitable cam core for Larry Young's new Grind. I have an address to drop ship it. Thanks, Joe Alexander From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 4 12:22:39 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 14:22:39 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - Message-ID: Cary, I'll put you down....I think you are going to make it this time. Looks like we might have a mini Group 44 meeting in the making? Joe A > Amici > > I do not believe that a year has gone by whilst I have been an FOT > participant ( 199?) that the subject of requirements of various sanctioning > bodies > has not been a topic of FOT discussion. Especially the requirements to meet > specific preparation requirements, which for many Triumphs is the 1972 SCCA > GRC. > > Frankly I do not know where and when it was first decided to use the > 1972 > SCCA GRC, but I do know that it was already in use when I started vintage > racing in about 1990. It has always struck me as particularly ironic that > the > body work modification (wheel flares) that were allowed in 1972 were not > allowed > in vintage racing and that relatively little was actually being done at many > events to enforce adherence to preparation of 1972 GRC engine specifications > other than obvious visible modifications like the carbs. > > One of the benefits of owning a Group 44 racecar, as I am sure it is > with > Kas's old racecars as well, is to see the innovation that was done within > the > rules to make the cars more competitive. One of the frustration is that > keeping the car as it was originally raced means that you are at a > competitive > disadvantage to other historic as well as newly constucted vintage racecars > that > are using the latest technology. As a driver/owner, you simply have to > accept > that you never going to be the fastest car on the track as they were in > their > day. > > The second point that I would like to make is that alot of time has > passed since I first did vintage racing. I am glad that SVAR has opened the > door > for participation by post 1972 cars that have have a racing history. If I > can > change what is a major conflict in my business schedule with the Watkins > Glen > event and some other logisitcal challenges, you all just might get to see > the > Group 44 TR7 - Aussy Playboy TR7 in action at the Glen for the first time > since > 1975. > > If its slower than you expected - well some of you know Bob Tullius, and > I am not anywhere close to Bob Tullius. It truly a great priviledge to even > drive the same car as the him. > > Cary > > > > > > > > From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Thu Oct 4 14:23:17 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:23:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] JE pistons for 1500 Spitfire Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74772374@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> I have a set of new +0.040 JE pistons for a Spitfire 1500 (bore of 2.940") which I no longer need. Includes premium pins (4), spiro locks, and rings. There's also a sample piston I sent to JE to be duplicated -- the sample comes from a prior blowed up 1500 motor -- from when I joined the Hole in the Block Gang at RA in 2004. I can provide invoice, build/spec sheet and photos. I've got $583.52 in this set of pistons, but would cut someone a decent deal to move them to a home where they could be used in anger as opposed to gathering dust in my garage. Anyone out there need a set of really nice forged pistons? Scott B. From jaboruch at netzero.net Thu Oct 4 17:43:42 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 23:43:42 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR3 piston rookie question Message-ID: <20071004.194342.21589.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> 2" compression height is correct. Joe(B) -- Larry Young wrote: I believe your asking for the compression height, i.e. the distance from the wrist pin center to the top of the piston. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you need a 2.000 in compression height to put the top of the piston level with the deck. Greg & Alison Blake wrote: > Can anyone tell me the crown height for a stock TR3 piston? If I order > the stock height + .005, will I have enough extra to mill off to get a > zero deck height? As far as I know the block has not been decked in the > past. > > Thanks, > > Greg > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > cartravel at pobox.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click for free info on business schools, $150K/ year potential. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlScb83RqBPXVW9HCpYwvtuT xWJKIeWscRXockyHSyaJI9Ux/ From jaboruch at netzero.net Thu Oct 4 17:51:56 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 23:51:56 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR3 piston rookie question Message-ID: <20071004.195156.21589.1@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Your piston height depends on a couple of factors. Like what rpm's, what head gasket, etc. For racing the cranks flex and you need more clearance than you think. I use a steel shim head gasket (0.022 inches compressed) and have had pistons that were 0.005 inches below the top of the liners still hit the head. I now leave at least 0.010" clearance at the top of the piston, for a total of 0.032". My rev limiter is set at 7300rpm and the pistons do not hit. Joe(B) -- "Greg & Alison Blake" wrote: Can anyone tell me the crown height for a stock TR3 piston? If I order the stock height + .005, will I have enough extra to mill off to get a zero deck height? As far as I know the block has not been decked in the past. Thanks, Greg jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Be your own boss today! Go to Technical School. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijngzTlf4rXRwVBXSWM1HSZuP Uoyrp6JoW8nWHHv0Ffn7WOB0/ From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Oct 4 18:19:35 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:19:35 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Steering Rack Message-ID: <1c352d3df559e9ef79f1c878732f2500@wi.rr.com> Anybody out there have a used steering rack for a TR6? I bought a new one from Moss but it fell apart while sitting in the garage during a toe adjustment!!! Made in Argentina. Someone over torqued the lock nut on the cap that holds the grease plug and plunger in place - stripped the threads and everything let go while turning the steering wheel. Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Thu Oct 4 20:12:46 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:12:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] LSD's Message-ID: <005001c806f5$3983eb00$0502a8c0@desktop> Foter's, for those who have sent in deposits, the order is going in tomorrow and the manufacturer needs to know what cars they are going into. I know of a couple TR6's, a TR250 and I don't know if the others are TR4's or TR4A's. Could you please email me with the type of car they are to be used on. Any others that want one needs to get a hold of Ken immediately to be included in this order. Thanks, Charly From dos_gusanos at msn.com Thu Oct 4 11:12:29 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:12:29 -0600 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - In-Reply-To: <213035CF-A262-4A83-A844-28E8AB18B76A@bnj.com> References: <213035CF-A262-4A83-A844-28E8AB18B76A@bnj.com> Message-ID: And every year I add my two cents on the subject in support of a '67 cutoff. If you have a period prepared car, I think it sucks to run with guys who have flares, slicks and every thing else money can buy. If you look at road racing participants and spectators today in relation to the enormous growth in population that has ocurred in the US since the end of the "Vintage era" road racing is really in the tank compared to any other form of motorsport. Additionally, what is the difference between a '72 legal car and current SCCA standards? Not a lot if you are looking through the windshield of a TR3 on 4.5" rims. Clubs now are considering going beyond '72 when road racing died. I prefer to run with the clubs that honor the pre 67 era and will vote with my wallet. (HSR, never again) If all the clubs go to '72 I will quit and go sailing or golfing or whatever. I went to the Elva reunion and although it was fun to see all the Elvas, I would really rather race a Porsche 356 that is prepared to the period. Cheers Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, NM > From: billb at bnj.com> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:03:46 -0700> To: Group44TR7 at aol.com> CC: westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; JWoesvra at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 -> > Sovren is going through a fierce debate on changing their eligibility > requirements from 1968 to 1972. So far I think most members want to > stick with 1968, though I think it limits the participation of people > from other clubs. It's too bad there isn't enough cooperation at a > national level to enable vintage eligibility to be defined country-wide.> > On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote:> > > Amici> >> > I do not believe that a year has gone by whilst I have been an > > FOT participant ( 199?) that the subject of requirements of various > > sanctioning bodies has not been a topic of FOT discussion. > > Especially the requirements to meet specific preparation > > requirements, which for many Triumphs is the 1972 SCCA GRC.> >> > Frankly I do not know where and when it was first decided to > > use the 1972 SCCA GRC, but I do know that it was already in use > > when I started vintage racing in about 1990. It has always struck > > me as particularly ironic that the body work modification (wheel > > flares) that were allowed in 1972 were not allowed in vintage > > racing and that relatively little was actually being done at many > > events to enforce adherence to preparation of 1972 GRC engine > > specifications other than obvious visible modifications like the > > carbs.> >> > One of the benefits of owning a Group 44 racecar, as I am sure > > it is with Kas's old racecars as well, is to see the innovation > > that was done within the rules to make the cars more competitive. > > One of the frustration is that keeping the car as it was originally > > raced means that you are at a competitive disadvantage to other > > historic as well as newly constucted vintage racecars that are > > using the latest technology. As a driver/owner, you simply have to > > accept that you never going to be the fastest car on the track as > > they were in their day.> >> > The second point that I would like to make is that alot of time > > has passed since I first did vintage racing. I am glad that SVAR > > has opened the door for participation by post 1972 cars that have > > have a racing history. If I can change what is a major conflict in > > my business schedule with the Watkins Glen event and some other > > logisitcal challenges, you all just might get to see the Group 44 > > TR7 - Aussy Playboy TR7 in action at the Glen for the first time > > since 1975.> >> > If its slower than you expected - well some of you know Bob > > Tullius, and I am not anywhere close to Bob Tullius. It truly a > > great priviledge to even drive the same car as the him.> >> > Cary> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.> _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sat Oct 6 10:56:50 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 09:56:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 1971 CP Runoffs References: <7691307.1191607728386.JavaMail.ra85@drexel.edu> Message-ID: <003101c80839$e39f86e0$5717c548@RW> This link, sent to me by Bob Adams, will give you a neat video of the 1971 Atlanta Runoffs in Class C. Lee Mueller was driving my TR-6 and it is some close and good hard racing. > > http://www.guba.com/watch/3000000528 From budscars at msn.com Sat Oct 6 20:01:38 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 19:01:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON Message-ID: Hi Gang..Are any of you racing in/Attending the CSRG Charity challenge at Infineon next weekend?..I will be there with my 1967 dark blue Spitfire #21....Gary Horskorta will be racing his red TR4..My bet is that Ron Jacobs(havn't met you yet Ron) will be racing his TR4..and I can't remember the name of the Guy in the /Red Devin Triumph..we have 260+ entries...I will be saving pit space in the area behind the Grandstands for THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang(Look for the Banner)......It will be great if you Guys join us...I won't be able to save enough room for transporters...I usually grab a polite amount of space..6-12 cars..Not All Triumphs....All great people.....If you cannot pit with us..PLEASE Stop By and hang out for the entire weekend if you like...Everyone is always welcome..And your Help working on/giving input on the cars is Always Appreciated....We Truly Are..The Way It Was..Whoohoo!.. Thanks Folks Racer Bud and THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang From billb at bnj.com Sat Oct 6 20:22:14 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 19:22:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The guy with the red devin is Bill Hart. I'm pretty sure he will be there since I know tony Garmey is towing down. Peyote is in bits, the frame is a lot worse than I thought it was, I'm going to have to replace a lot of it. But I might drive down just to spectate and for the ride. On Oct 6, 2007, at 7:01 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > Hi Gang..Are any of you racing in/Attending the CSRG Charity > challenge at > Infineon next weekend?..I will be there with my 1967 dark blue > Spitfire > #21....Gary Horskorta will be racing his red TR4..My bet is that Ron > Jacobs(havn't met you yet Ron) will be racing his TR4..and I can't > remember > the name of the Guy in the /Red Devin Triumph..we have 260+ > entries...I will > be saving pit space in the area behind the Grandstands for THE OLD > GUYS STILL > DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang(Look for the Banner)......It > will be great > if you Guys join us...I won't be able to save enough room for > transporters...I > usually grab a polite amount of space..6-12 cars..Not All > Triumphs....All > great people.....If you cannot pit with us..PLEASE Stop By and hang > out for > the entire weekend if you like...Everyone is always welcome..And > your Help > working on/giving input on the cars is Always Appreciated....We > Truly Are..The > Way It Was..Whoohoo!.. > Thanks Folks > Racer Bud and THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Sat Oct 6 20:24:12 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 19:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] 1971 CP Runoffs In-Reply-To: <003101c80839$e39f86e0$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <986262.2912.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Kas, some great video. Is there more of it? It would be great to see the DP, EP, FP, GP and HP clips. Or was the focus around the datsuns and CP, BS? Kas Kastner wrote: This link, sent to me by Bob Adams, will give you a neat video of the 1971 Atlanta Runoffs in Class C. Lee Mueller was driving my TR-6 and it is some close and good hard racing. > > http://www.guba.com/watch/3000000528 jaxonracing at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! From budscars at msn.com Sat Oct 6 20:32:03 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 19:32:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON References: Message-ID: Hello Bill..Sorry about Peyote..Hang in Man!...Stay in the Loop..I know you will..I have a new engine for my Spitfire, after busting a crank at Laguna Seca.... and.. parking in the sand =Oil+Sand....We have it Made Gang! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "RACER BUD" Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON > The guy with the red devin is Bill Hart. I'm pretty sure he will be there > since I know tony Garmey is towing down. Peyote is in bits, the frame is > a lot worse than I thought it was, I'm going to have to replace a lot of > it. But I might drive down just to spectate and for the ride. > On Oct 6, 2007, at 7:01 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > >> Hi Gang..Are any of you racing in/Attending the CSRG Charity challenge >> at >> Infineon next weekend?..I will be there with my 1967 dark blue Spitfire >> #21....Gary Horskorta will be racing his red TR4..My bet is that Ron >> Jacobs(havn't met you yet Ron) will be racing his TR4..and I can't >> remember >> the name of the Guy in the /Red Devin Triumph..we have 260+ entries...I >> will >> be saving pit space in the area behind the Grandstands for THE OLD GUYS >> STILL >> DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang(Look for the Banner)......It will be >> great >> if you Guys join us...I won't be able to save enough room for >> transporters...I >> usually grab a polite amount of space..6-12 cars..Not All >> Triumphs....All >> great people.....If you cannot pit with us..PLEASE Stop By and hang out >> for >> the entire weekend if you like...Everyone is always welcome..And your >> Help >> working on/giving input on the cars is Always Appreciated....We Truly >> Are..The >> Way It Was..Whoohoo!.. >> Thanks Folks >> Racer Bud and THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> billb at bnj.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 7 13:45:56 2007 From: westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net (westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 19:45:56 +0000 Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON Message-ID: <100720071945.6120.470937730009557B000017E82158766720990E04D2069D@att.net> I will be at the CSRG Charity Challenge. My car is the dark blue number 484. Look forward to meeting you and seeing how Gary's TR runs with all the work he has done on it since we last raced together. Of course my car has just be sitting at Genoa gathering dust. I'm told it will start however. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from "RACER BUD" : -------------- > Hello Bill..Sorry about Peyote..Hang in Man!...Stay in the Loop..I know you > will..I have a new engine for my Spitfire, after busting a crank at Laguna > Seca.... and.. parking in the sand =Oil+Sand....We have it Made Gang! > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Babcock" > To: "RACER BUD" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 7:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON > > > > The guy with the red devin is Bill Hart. I'm pretty sure he will be there > > since I know tony Garmey is towing down. Peyote is in bits, the frame is > > a lot worse than I thought it was, I'm going to have to replace a lot of > > it. But I might drive down just to spectate and for the ride. > > On Oct 6, 2007, at 7:01 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > > > >> Hi Gang..Are any of you racing in/Attending the CSRG Charity challenge > >> at > >> Infineon next weekend?..I will be there with my 1967 dark blue Spitfire > >> #21....Gary Horskorta will be racing his red TR4..My bet is that Ron > >> Jacobs(havn't met you yet Ron) will be racing his TR4..and I can't > >> remember > >> the name of the Guy in the /Red Devin Triumph..we have 260+ entries...I > >> will > >> be saving pit space in the area behind the Grandstands for THE OLD GUYS > >> STILL > >> DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang(Look for the Banner)......It will be > >> great > >> if you Guys join us...I won't be able to save enough room for > >> transporters...I > >> usually grab a polite amount of space..6-12 cars..Not All > >> Triumphs....All > >> great people.....If you cannot pit with us..PLEASE Stop By and hang out > >> for > >> the entire weekend if you like...Everyone is always welcome..And your > >> Help > >> working on/giving input on the cars is Always Appreciated....We Truly > >> Are..The > >> Way It Was..Whoohoo!.. > >> Thanks Folks > >> Racer Bud and THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang > >> _______________________________________________ > >> http://www.team.net/donate.html > >> > >> billb at bnj.com > >> Fot mailing list > >> Fot at autox.team.net > >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > westerneagleracing at att.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From keithfiles at btinternet.com Sat Oct 6 11:28:03 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 18:28:03 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <20071006173059.4D3BE187A5A@autox.team.net> HI everybody, Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on the cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver TR6 placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won outright at VIR in 2004. My TR6 has: Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 pistons (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 DCOE Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, luminiton ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic RaceCraft for the princely sum of c $20k. Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, Quartermaster clutch. Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on circuit). Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot callipers (these do make a big difference). Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs less than a standard road car. Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) by a country mile. At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well driven spitfires. As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over in 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys just to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kas Kastner Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Munson" To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > 1900 > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > higher level than what SCCA does. > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > Mike Munson > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > run > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > standards. > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > championship > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From keithfiles at btinternet.com Sat Oct 6 14:32:15 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 21:32:15 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <000701c80856$88dd8e10$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <20071006203439.540C41879D8@autox.team.net> Hi Kas, Over here some people run drivers door, front and rear panels as GRP with the floor panels, inner boot panels and inner wings in aluminium; now that is light! I know of one guy who has a complete hand made aluminium body shell on his TR6, the car weighs in at 800kgs!!! Hope to see you at either Mosport in July or at Watkins Glen in September; I hope to be at both events. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: Kas Kastner [mailto:kaskas at cox.net] Sent: 06 October 2007 21:22 To: Keith Files; 'Mike Munson'; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Let's see Keith, hood, boot, top, door and wings..........duh, that is ALL the panels, except the passenger door.:-) But, the engine sounds like all the things I wish I had had in the olden days. In particular that crank and rods. And, glad to hear from you and that you are coming over again. With dollar/pound issue, it is doubtful anyone will be coming your way soon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Files" To: "'Kas Kastner'" ; "'Mike Munson'" ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: RE: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > HI everybody, > > Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on > the > cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion > either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when > compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the > Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver > TR6 > placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won > outright > at VIR in 2004. > > My TR6 has: > > Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 > pistons > (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, > Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 > DCOE > Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, > luminiton > ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic > RaceCraft > for the princely sum of c $20k. > > Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, > Quartermaster clutch. > > Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on > circuit). > > Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where > terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. > > Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot > callipers (these do make a big difference). > > Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers > door > and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs > less than a standard road car. > > Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. > > The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by > Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. > > The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as > well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then > Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) > by > a country mile. > > At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a > Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over > here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well > driven spitfires. > > As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over > in > 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am > going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over > youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys > just > to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are > available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are > some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). > > As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. > > Cheers, Keith. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Kas Kastner > Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 > To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; > ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; > sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; > fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they > do > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Munson" > To: ; ; ; > ; ; ; > ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > >> Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite >> understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel >> injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs >> 1900 >> pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. >> I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage >> organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a >> higher level than what SCCA does. >> >> The cars from England are another story altogether. >> >> Mike Munson >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 >> >> In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: >> >> Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class >> within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and >> run >> >> under current SCCA regulations. >> >> >> We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage >> standards. >> >> The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national >> championship >> and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. >> >> Jack Woehrle >> SVRA Technical Director >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > keithfiles at btinternet.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Mon Oct 8 10:15:25 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 11:15:25 -0500 Subject: [Fot] competition valves Message-ID: <200710081615.l98GFY4F069480@ns3.geneseo.net> I've disassembled two TR4 engines that have valves with three retainer grooves instead of one. These must be standard in some other existing engine. Does anybody know where these are from? uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From budscars at msn.com Mon Oct 8 19:17:36 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 18:17:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] test Message-ID: Hi gang..I am having computer probs..please respond. for test. Thanks Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 Sonoma. ca. From stutzmans at comcast.net Mon Oct 8 19:45:31 2007 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 21:45:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] oil filter by pass valve Message-ID: <001201c80a16$13ca6a50$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> Who knows at what PSI the by pass valve opens in the TR3-4 filter head? Many of us are using the spin on oil filter adaptor and filters with internal by pass valves that open at 8-11 PSI. So we have 2 by pass valves. Bruce From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Oct 8 22:13:16 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 22:13:16 -0600 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 References: <60C60298-D6F5-49E0-AD6C-CADFDA3605A0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM MDT > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > >> >> FoTers, >> I think Henry Morrison will be as surprised as I, to find myself >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this discussion >> several times before. However... Personally, I encourage expanded >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for bigger grids. >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a earlier >> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR. >> Regarding your car Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high >> level of preparation, wouldn't it be more concise to list what it >> DID leave the factory with? To me " All original steel panels >> except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door, all 4 wings and >> hardtop " is like saying " all original car except for body, >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know what GRP is >> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the >> rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of >> the art [which your car sounds to be] - not >> "an act or scheme to out whit or deceive" {Webster} >> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no disrespect aimed at >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason. >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules >> read: >> >> Engine: >> >> Same type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit). >> Period correct roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. >> Compression Ratio is limited to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be >> documented as higher from the factory as delivered for street >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and period correct. No aluminum >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless originally sold as >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free but must not conflict >> with stock type appearance of body. >> >> >> Carburetion: >> Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi >> count). No Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped. >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------- >> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in compliance with the >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host club] is even more strict >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 was [as graciously >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an inch of it's >> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group >> [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I >> doubt if Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - >> not really fair to the others. >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how my Vintage prepped >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans to attend >> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain! >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. From Group44TR7 at aol.com Tue Oct 9 07:10:31 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:10:31 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen 2008 - FOT GRC standard for Kastner Cup ? Message-ID: Amici One of the underlying fundamental reasons why there are many different sanctioning organizations is that there is no consensus on vintage preparation standards. Further, reflected in the differing standards is a fundamental difference in philosophy about the preparation of cars for racing. And even further, there is even more basic difference of philosophy about cars themselves; General racing for example has typically only included cars that have a real race history. On one extreme, we have only cars with an actual race history that supposedly is prepared to the same specifications as when they were raced and on opposite end is newly constructed/reconstructed race cars utilizing new technology. For FOT to have an event, it means that a compromise has to be reached to allow these cars to compete together. Philosophically, there is also a very big difference between drivers. On one extreme there are people who simply want to have fun driving as fast as they can with their car and the opposite extreme of someone who wants to win a competition. It would seem that we should have an agreement amongst FOT for those who want to compete as to the level of preparation allowed, a sort very basic of FOT GRC for the Kastner Cup that preferably references an already existing GRC. If you are in not in compliance, you simply are not eligible - but you can go on the track (if accepted by SVRA) to have fun driving your car. Thanks for listening, Cary ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From DSPGTi at aol.com Tue Oct 9 08:03:42 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:03:42 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen 2008 - FOT GRC standard for Kastner Cup ? Message-ID: Is anyone familiar with the MG groups awarding of the Collier Cup at the Zippo GP? They have their own group race like the one we will get next year. What I know of it is that is awarded by popular vote amoung the competitors that goes to the driver of the car that most exemplifies the spirit and preservation of an original prepared MG. It almost never goes to the race winner. It will sometimes be the MGTC running in the back, sometimes the an MGB running in the middle maybe a Sebring GT near the front. It's about the preservation of history and originality that counts, not the speed. How many times do we have to be reminded that it is all about the cars, not who's fastest. Fastest is for SCCA, NASA, EMRA, IMSA, NASCAR etc,etc. Dave Y. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 9 08:22:41 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:22:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen 2008 - FOT GRC standard for Kastner Cup ? Message-ID: That's IT! Thanks Dave Y!! > Is anyone familiar with the MG groups awarding of the Collier Cup at the > Zippo GP? They have their own group race like the one we will get next year. > > What I know of it is that is awarded by popular vote amoung the competitors > that > goes to the driver of the car that most exemplifies the spirit and > preservation of an original prepared MG. It almost never goes to the race > winner. It > will sometimes be the MGTC running in the back, sometimes the an MGB > running in > the middle maybe a Sebring GT near the front. It's about the preservation > of > history and originality that counts, not the speed. > > How many times do we have to be reminded that it is all about the cars, not > who's fastest. Fastest is for SCCA, NASA, EMRA, IMSA, NASCAR etc,etc. > > Dave Y. > > From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 9 08:29:27 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:29:27 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nomination to FoT Another TR3 Message-ID: FoT Steve Preiss is preparing a 1956 TR3 to 1962 GCRs. His level of competition is to be decided, but a driver's school is planned. This effort is shades of "Rosebud" and is worthy of our support. He will be sharing information and seeking advice on engine build and suspension set up. I nominate Steve Preiss....do I hear a second? (Does anyone know him personally?) Steve Preiss 6908 Heyward Street Philadelphia, PA 19119 spreiss at verizon.net Thanks, Joe Alexander From alfetta95 at optonline.net Tue Oct 9 08:58:45 2007 From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (alfetta95 at optonline.net) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:58:45 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination to FoT Another TR3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I second. Welcome Steve! Todd Redmond 1958 TR3A ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2007 10:29 am Subject: [Fot] Nomination to FoT Another TR3 To: fot at autox.team.net > FoT > > Steve Preiss is preparing a 1956 TR3 to 1962 GCRs. His level of > competition > is to be decided, but a driver's school is planned. This effort > is shades of > "Rosebud" and is worthy of our support. He will be sharing > information and > seeking advice on engine build and suspension set up. > > I nominate Steve Preiss....do I hear a second? (Does anyone know > him > personally?) > > Steve Preiss > 6908 Heyward Street > Philadelphia, PA 19119 > spreiss at verizon.net > > > Thanks, > > Joe Alexander > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > alfetta95 at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cartravel at pobox.com Tue Oct 9 09:20:10 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:20:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> References: <60C60298-D6F5-49E0-AD6C-CADFDA3605A0@earthlink.net> <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <470B9C2A.7050300@pobox.com> The awarding of the Kastner Cup is completely up to Kas, as it should be. I know Kas applies his own weighting factors. If you want something done by popular vote, like the MG Collier Cup, then someone needs to come up with a new cup. Larry Young Greg "Lunker" Hilyer wrote: >>> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >>> - Someone please enlighten me. From Group44TR7 at aol.com Tue Oct 9 09:38:15 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:38:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - Clarification Message-ID: I only included the Kastner Cup Challenge in my subject line because I inferred from the dialog that the Kastner Cup Challenge was going to be the name of the event. My comments were intended to address the issues being addressed by Keith and others about the differences in preparation of various competition cars. Obviously the competitive spirit is alive even amongst the vintage group. Frankly, it would be in all of our financial interests to adopt a uniform standard simply to prevent escalation costs of car preparation.There was a group within the Porsche club that got smart and started the 2 liter class with minimal preparation. Cary In a message dated 10/9/2007 8:21:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cartravel at pobox.com writes: The awarding of the Kastner Cup is completely up to Kas, as it should be. I know Kas applies his own weighting factors. If you want something done by popular vote, like the MG Collier Cup, then someone needs to come up with a new cup. Larry Young Greg "Lunker" Hilyer wrote: >>> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >>> - Someone please enlighten me. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From REK46 at aol.com Tue Oct 9 09:38:05 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:38:05 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: so make sure you give Kas a couple Martini's and a good steak ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Tue Oct 9 10:08:54 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:08:54 -0500 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - Clarification In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820AE28315@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> I don't know how practical addressing performance differences can be. We can't do that very well even in our club. I think that we all just have to accept that if we are truely vintage then we are racing a "point in time car". We each get to pick out point in time based on the car we have and the local rules. I may not be able to run with the cars from a different part of the country that are built to different year specs and rules but we always have somebody to race with. Being passed by the Group 44 TR6 is not a problem. It would have heppened back in the day too. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Group44TR7 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:38 AM To: cartravel at pobox.com; lunkercars at earthlink.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - Clarification I only included the Kastner Cup Challenge in my subject line because I inferred from the dialog that the Kastner Cup Challenge was going to be the name of the event. My comments were intended to address the issues being addressed by Keith and others about the differences in preparation of various competition cars. Obviously the competitive spirit is alive even amongst the vintage group. Frankly, it would be in all of our financial interests to adopt a uniform standard simply to prevent escalation costs of car preparation.There was a group within the Porsche club that got smart and started the 2 liter class with minimal preparation. Cary In a message dated 10/9/2007 8:21:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cartravel at pobox.com writes: The awarding of the Kastner Cup is completely up to Kas, as it should be. I know Kas applies his own weighting factors. If you want something done by popular vote, like the MG Collier Cup, then someone needs to come up with a new cup. Larry Young Greg "Lunker" Hilyer wrote: >>> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >>> - Someone please enlighten me. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html rkramer at rdoequipment.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Tue Oct 9 10:16:54 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 12:16:54 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Watkins_Glen_2008_-_FOT_GRC_standard_for_Kas?= =?iso-8859-1?q?tner_Cup=A0_=3F?= Message-ID: As a guy who races a TR3 that has been a race car sincve 1959 and is building the Group 44 GT6 up I might actually have half a chance on winnign something with theis idea. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 Is anyone familiar with the MG groups awarding of the Collier Cup at the Zippo GP? They have their own group race like the one we will get next year. What I know of it is that is awarded by popular vote amoung the competitors that goes to the driver of the car that most exemplifies the spirit and preservation of an original prepared MG. It almost never goes to the race winner. It will sometimes be the MGTC running in the back, sometimes the an MGB running in the middle maybe a Sebring GT near the front. It's about the preservation of history and originality that counts, not the speed. How many times do we have to be reminded that it is all about the cars, not who's fastest. Fastest is for SCCA, NASA, EMRA, IMSA, NASCAR etc,etc. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From kaskas at cox.net Tue Oct 9 10:19:40 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:19:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Kastner Cup Message-ID: <004601c80a90$31883e80$5717c548@RW> There is no mystery on the cup presentation. In the very beginning I wanted to offer this cup to participants that had Triumph cars that were excellent examples of presentation & preparation, the driver an advocate and involved person in Vintage type racing and results from the Triumph competition on the track. The values being approximately 25%, 25% and 50%. There are two provisions: 1. No driver can win the cup in consecutive years. 2. The cup is to be awarded once each year and moved around the country to give opportunity to as many drivers as possible and a venue agreed by the overall Triumph participants. In general it is East Coast, Central Area and West Coast on a rotation basis. This has given us to date: Mosport, Ontario Canada, Buttonwillow California, Atlanta Raceway, Georgia, Hallet, Oklahoma, and the last, Miller Park, Utah. Too date race winners have been chosen three out of five events, DNF occurrences in the race event and other entanglements during the race did take some possible winners out of contention three times. From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 9 09:59:13 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:59:13 EDT Subject: [Fot] Kastner Cup Challenge-Car Eligibility and Awarding of Cup Message-ID: FoT, Every time we have a major event for the FoT, there is some sort of controversy. That's Ok, to a point. SVRA has always worked well with us on car eligibility to that end that seems to make the sense....at least to me. But we cant please everyone. (ipso facto) There is a method in place for the awarding of the Kastner Cup. For the time being it will remain in place. Perhaps we could bring the current list wide controversies to a close.....in the best interests of FoT. This is likely to be the best FoT Gathering that we have ever had. I would rather build on that premise than hash over issues that are likely have no good solutions. If anyone has any further heartburn, on this subject, please contact me directly and privately. I'll try my best to deal with it. Best Regards, Joe Alexander From Group44TR7 at aol.com Tue Oct 9 06:51:36 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:51:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: Amici One of the underlying fundamental reasons why there are many different sanctioning organizations is that there is no consensus on vintage preparation standards. Further, reflected in the differing standards is a fundamental difference in philosophy about the preparation of cars for racing. And even further, there is even more basic difference of philosophy about cars themselves; General racing for example has typically only included cars that have a real race history. On one extreme, we have only cars with an actual race history that supposedly is prepared to the same specifications as when they were raced and on opposite end is newly constructed race cars utilizing new technology. For FOT to have an event, it means that a compromise has to be reached to allow these cars to compete together. Philosophically, there is also a very big difference between drivers. On one extreme there are people who simply want to have fun driving as fast as they can with their car and the opposite extreme of someone who wants to win a competition. It would seem that we should have an agreement amongst FOT for those who want to compete as to the level of preparation allowed, a sort very basic of FOT GRC for the Kastner Cup that preferably references an already existing GRC. If you are in not in compliance, you simply are not eligible - but you can go on the track (if accepted by SVRA) to have fun driving your car. Thanks for listening, Cary In a message dated 10/8/2007 9:13:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lunkercars at earthlink.net writes: Begin forwarded message: > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM MDT > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > >> >> FoTers, >> I think Henry Morrison will be as surprised as I, to find myself >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this discussion >> several times before. However... Personally, I encourage expanded >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for bigger grids. >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a earlier >> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR. >> Regarding your car Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high >> level of preparation, wouldn't it be more concise to list what it >> DID leave the factory with? To me " All original steel panels >> except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door, all 4 wings and >> hardtop " is like saying " all original car except for body, >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know what GRP is >> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the >> rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of >> the art [which your car sounds to be] - not >> "an act or scheme to out whit or deceive" {Webster} >> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no disrespect aimed at >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason. >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules >> read: >> >> Engine: >> >> Same type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit). >> Period correct roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. >> Compression Ratio is limited to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be >> documented as higher from the factory as delivered for street >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and period correct. No aluminum >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless originally sold as >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free but must not conflict >> with stock type appearance of body. >> >> >> Carburetion: >> Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi >> count). No Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped. >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------- >> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in compliance with the >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host club] is even more strict >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 was [as graciously >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an inch of it's >> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group >> [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I >> doubt if Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - >> not really fair to the others. >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how my Vintage prepped >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans to attend >> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain! >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. group44tr7 at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Mon Oct 8 17:18:24 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoffrey Byrne) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:18:24 +1000 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 References: <20071006173059.4D3BE187A5A@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <000a01c80a01$887a2350$41e3efdc@co3017577a> Friends Just to add an international perspective for interest , Keiths car would not get an Historic Log Book in Australia . Our Historic cars have to be OEM with very little mods ie plus one inch wider wheels Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Files" To: "'Kas Kastner'" ; "'Mike Munson'" ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 3:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > HI everybody, > > Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on the > cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion > either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when > compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the > Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver TR6 > placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won outright > at VIR in 2004. > > My TR6 has: > > Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 pistons > (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, > Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 DCOE > Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, luminiton > ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic RaceCraft > for the princely sum of c $20k. > > Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, > Quartermaster clutch. > > Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on > circuit). > > Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where > terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. > > Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot > callipers (these do make a big difference). > > Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door > and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs > less than a standard road car. > > Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. > > The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by > Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. > > The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as > well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then > Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) by > a country mile. > > At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a > Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over > here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well > driven spitfires. > > As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over in > 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am > going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over > youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys just > to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are > available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are > some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). > > As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. > > Cheers, Keith. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Kas Kastner > Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 > To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; > ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; > sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Munson" > To: ; ; ; > ; ; ; > ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > > 1900 > > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > > higher level than what SCCA does. > > > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > > > Mike Munson > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > > run > > > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > > standards. > > > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > > championship > > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > > > Jack Woehrle > > SVRA Technical Director > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > kaskas at cox.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > keithfiles at btinternet.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gkbyrne at optushome.com.au > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 10:48:39 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:48:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <20071006173059.4D3BE187A5A@autox.team.net> References: <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> <20071006173059.4D3BE187A5A@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710080948q5a046676kabb4a7e1a12da23a@mail.gmail.com> Do, in SOVERN, the following would be illegal: +60 pistons [40=max] Any Webers [PI or two Strombergs only allowed] Roller rockers Maybe the tranny case Rear Konis [must use levers] Wilwood vented rotors Glass panels [any] So, what rate springs do you use [ponds/inch if possible] and what are their free lengths? Do you use a rear sway bar? Thanks. Hope to meet and race with you guys some time. Chuck Arnold On 10/6/07, Keith Files wrote: > > HI everybody, > > Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on > the > cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion > either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when > compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the > Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver > TR6 > placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won > outright > at VIR in 2004. > > My TR6 has: > > Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 > pistons > (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, > Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 > DCOE > Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, > luminiton > ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic > RaceCraft > for the princely sum of c $20k. > > Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, > Quartermaster clutch. > > Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on > circuit). > > Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where > terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. > > Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot > callipers (these do make a big difference). > > Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers > door > and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs > less than a standard road car. > > Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. > > The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by > Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. > > The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as > well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then > Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) > by > a country mile. > > At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a > Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over > here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well > driven spitfires. > > As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over > in > 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am > going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over > youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys > just > to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are > available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are > some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). > > As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. > > Cheers, Keith. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Kas Kastner > Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 > To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; > ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; > sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; > fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they > do > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Munson" > To: ; ; ; > ; ; ; > ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > > 1900 > > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > > higher level than what SCCA does. > > > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > > > Mike Munson > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > > run > > > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > > standards. > > > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > > championship > > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > > > Jack Woehrle > > SVRA Technical Director > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > kaskas at cox.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > keithfiles at btinternet.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 9 09:48:14 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Re:FOT GRC standard ...thankyou Cary, ..and foot in mouth disease ... Message-ID: <585641.8640.qm@web81109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry, forgot to click reply to all ... so here goes... Note: forwarded message attached. Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire Received: from [69.217.62.46] by web81106.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 08:43:10 PDT Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:43:09 -0700 (PDT) From: tom strange Subject: Re:FOT GRC standard ...thankyou Cary, ..and foot in mouth disease ... To: Group44TR7 at aol.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 3203 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Thank you cary for a very well written letter .. I thought that the FOT was all about camaraderie, promoting triumphs (in all venues), working together to solve problems, promote reliability and safety; and most of all to HAVE FUN. Please bear with my rant, and forgive blunders committed here. Vintage cars are going away. Racing is getting more expensive; becoming a deterrent to many people all by itself. As much as we may not want to face it, the older cars are getting harder to find, and more expensive to maintain. We have to decide if we want to have vintage racing just for us, and be an exclusive club that outlaws all new members and ideas or if we want to let the sport grow as things change. People racing 2008 BMWs will one day find that they cannot compete with the "new cars" but will love their car, and will want to continue to race it. Yes, it will then be a "vintage car". Eligibility talk came up after a bad accident at Road America. Many people expressed the sentiment that the accident happened because the cars were not "vintage correct". Wrong. The accident happened because "driver attitude" was not period correct. Everyone wanted to "clamp down" on the mods.. Very little comment was pointed toward clamping down on drivers with a bad attitude, or a record of causing accidents. Sorry folks, but guns do not shoot people, and cars do not cause accidents. People do. There are solutions. Midwestern council has an easy out. We have a class that can (and is) applied to all groups, classes etc. for cars that do not comply. They race with cars of comparable lap times, power / weight (in other words  in their proper class) but display the letters UNR  unrestricted. They cannot win points to take wins away from legal cars, but they do get to race, have fun, and play with their proper competitors. Drivers with Council who do not race in the spirit of their run group, are put on probation, or simply asked to leave. I dont think any current SCCA triumph is going to come to a national FOT event with plans to WIN against cars prepared to a 30 year old GCR. I dont think any properly prepared vintage car should have to compete against them either a simple UNR would fix that For that matter, any vintage driver who comes to a national FOT event simply to win, is not there in the spirit of vintage racing anymore than the SCCA driver who wants to use his advanced mods etc. to win and gain bragging rights. The bragging rights come from the fact that we all ran, we all had fun and we all went home safely. The cars should not be sent home from such an event because they are not completely eligible, but the drivers who race to win "at any cost" should be. Sorry for the long post and the rant, but I fear that we could tear a great group of people apart if we start arguing about eligibility at this event. Lets all play and we all have fun. Since it is a vintage group, those of us who do not fit in completely should respect the vintage spirit what we can do to fit in, we should do. If we are not completely eligible, lets leave the trophies to those who are, and most importantly, lets race in the spirit of vintage racing, whether we are vintage legal or not. My understanding is that the Kastner cup goes for promotion of the spirit of vintage racing, and thats the way it should be. I doubt that it will go to a current SCCA car, that races to win at any cost. Kas, please correct me if I am wrong Two notes to leave you with  at the Morgan festival at RA, there were brand new Morgans running because they were the featured car. They did not detract from the vintage morgans in any way this is the way it is at many events. Every year from the beginning of racing to today there are cars running that do not comply with the rules they just havent been caught at it I believe Kas has said that finding ways to make the rules work for you, and finding the things that are NOT specifically illegal, are the edges that many winning teams use to get where they are Lets not spend time arguing lets race. Thanks for listening . Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: Amici Philosophically, there is also a very big difference between drivers. On one extreme there are people who simply want to have fun driving as fast as they can with their car and the opposite extreme of someone who wants to win a competition. It would seem that we should have an agreement amongst FOT for those who want to compete as to the level of preparation allowed, a sort very basic of FOT GRC for the Kastner Cup that preferably references an already existing GRC. If you are in not in compliance, you simply are not eligible - but you can go on the track (if accepted by SVRA) to have fun driving your car. Thanks for listening, Cary ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com tstrange at sbcglobal.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Oct 9 19:17:50 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:17:50 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans Message-ID: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque N.M. From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 09:29:39 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:29:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710100829id1b7ffy93462ec9e45b8b8e@mail.gmail.com> On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one for a TR5/6 On 10/9/07, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: > > Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans > anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett > last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have > the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at > the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque N.M. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Oct 10 08:32:39 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:32:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] GT6 Racer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Check out the GT6. Some one on the list may know the car. It is local to me if anyone is interested. NFI Paul -----Original Message----- From: Kijiji Alerts [mailto:alerts at kijiji.com] Sent: October 10, 2007 1:38 AM To: macdonaldp at rogers.com Subject: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars Ottawa Home | Post Ad | My Kijiji | Help Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars 10-Oct-07 1974 Triumph TR6 ( $18,500.00 ) TRIUMPH GT6 RACE CAR PLUS SPARE CAR FOR PARTS CHEAP! ( $4,800.00 ) See all the Ads If you have any questions or concerns, visit contact us. Regards, The Kijiji Team -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unsubscribe from: This Alert | All Alerts Help About Privacy Policy Terms of Use Contact Kijiji Copyright ) 2005-2007 Kijiji International Limited. From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Oct 10 07:55:25 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:55:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars Message-ID: Check out the GT6. Some one on the list may know the car. It is local to me if anyone is interested. NFI Paul -----Original Message----- From: Kijiji Alerts [mailto:alerts at kijiji.com] Sent: October 10, 2007 1:38 AM To: macdonaldp at rogers.com Subject: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars Ottawa Home | Post Ad | My Kijiji | Help Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars 10-Oct-07 1974 Triumph TR6 ( $18,500.00 ) TRIUMPH GT6 RACE CAR PLUS SPARE CAR FOR PARTS CHEAP! ( $4,800.00 ) See all the Ads If you have any questions or concerns, visit contact us. Regards, The Kijiji Team -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unsubscribe from: This Alert | All Alerts Help About Privacy Policy Terms of Use Contact Kijiji Copyright ) 2005-2007 Kijiji International Limited. From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 9 23:30:03 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:30:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002101c80afe$9c8b3980$171a694c@computer> Hi, Bud, My race car is a '74 TR6 so not compatible with CSRG racing but I would like to come and see some vintage racing and, of course, partake of your booth. If I can only make it for one day, what day would you suggest and what times on that day? Thanks and I hope to see you and the other FOT guys there. Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 7:02 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON Hi Gang..Are any of you racing in/Attending the CSRG Charity challenge at Infineon next weekend?..I will be there with my 1967 dark blue Spitfire #21....Gary Horskorta will be racing his red TR4..My bet is that Ron Jacobs(havn't met you yet Ron) will be racing his TR4..and I can't remember the name of the Guy in the /Red Devin Triumph..we have 260+ entries...I will be saving pit space in the area behind the Grandstands for THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang(Look for the Banner)......It will be great if you Guys join us...I won't be able to save enough room for transporters...I usually grab a polite amount of space..6-12 cars..Not All Triumphs....All great people.....If you cannot pit with us..PLEASE Stop By and hang out for the entire weekend if you like...Everyone is always welcome..And your Help working on/giving input on the cars is Always Appreciated....We Truly Are..The Way It Was..Whoohoo!.. Thanks Folks Racer Bud and THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 10 10:01:08 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:01:08 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans and scattershields In-Reply-To: References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Thanks all, For some reason my trans request took 12+ hrs. to get posted on the list. I've got one on its way to a bus station in Wisconsin due to leach Abq. late tomorrow night. $85 plus a bus ticket on E-Bay... Sometimes you just gotta' love the on-line world. The Plum Pi just might make another grid. Regarding your scattershield question Chuck, I'm hoping that Henry might sell me something less than 1000' of used conveyor belt. I'm thinking that, combined with a aluminum inner skin should make for something workable. If I get my hands on some belt, I would be happy to send some out to anyone who wants some [can we work something out Henry?]. Greg Hilyer TR4 #314 P.S. Henry, I did send Rob a e-mail last night - I'll probably hear from him on my way back from the bus station. On Oct 10, 2007, at 9:36 AM, wrote: > Check with Rob Noyes Smith 821-4369 He's got one, hem ight not > want to part with it........Henry > > > To: fot at autox.team.net > > From: lunkercars at earthlink.net > > Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:17:50 -0600 > > Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans > > > > Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans > > anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in > Hallett > > last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have > > the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. > Looking at > > the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > > TR4 #314 > > Albuquerque N.M. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 10 10:06:06 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:06:06 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? In-Reply-To: <5C33EB5352EE814AB72F655EA92399A20EF7FC7A@exc2-na-chq.bfusa.com> References: <5C33EB5352EE814AB72F655EA92399A20EF7FC7A@exc2-na-chq.bfusa.com> Message-ID: Sure - Please send info just in case Henry does have a 1000' minimum... Honestly, I would be interested in seeing a picture of one. Greg On Oct 10, 2007, at 9:50 AM, Coffey, Jack wrote: > Chuck...Greg....I have a Deist blanket type scattershield...never > used. > If interested, I can send pix & look up what I paid for it > See attached e-mail for further info on attachment & development by > Mordy Dunst & John Frymark > > Jack Coffey > ph:615-937-1535 > coffeyjack at bfusa.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Chuck Arnold > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 10:30 AM > To: Greg Lunker Hilyer > Cc: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? > > On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one > for a > TR5/6 > > On 10/9/07, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: >> >> Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans >> anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett >> last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have >> the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at >> the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> triosan at gmail.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > coffeyjack at bfusa.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Oct 10 11:13:11 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:13:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here is the link. http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-2-TRIUMPH-GT6-MK-3-SPOR TS-CARS-PLUS-PARTS-BARGAIN-PRICED-W0QQAdIdZ26228231 It is about 1.5 hours from me..not really local. Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: October 10, 2007 9:55 AM To: Fot Subject: [Fot] FW: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars Check out the GT6. Some one on the list may know the car. It is local to me if anyone is interested. NFI Paul -----Original Message----- From: Kijiji Alerts [mailto:alerts at kijiji.com] Sent: October 10, 2007 1:38 AM To: macdonaldp at rogers.com Subject: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars Ottawa Home | Post Ad | My Kijiji | Help Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars 10-Oct-07 1974 Triumph TR6 ( $18,500.00 ) TRIUMPH GT6 RACE CAR PLUS SPARE CAR FOR PARTS CHEAP! ( $4,800.00 ) See all the Ads If you have any questions or concerns, visit contact us. Regards, The Kijiji Team -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unsubscribe from: This Alert | All Alerts Help About Privacy Policy Terms of Use Contact Kijiji Copyright ) 2005-2007 Kijiji International Limited. macdonaldp at rogers.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 10 12:34:46 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:34:46 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans In-Reply-To: References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6B571C0F-BA86-42AF-B845-9F32CDC553A7@earthlink.net> Yes to both. In fact the event is called The Hot Air Historics/ Redcoats on the Rio Grande and will feature a all british race on Saturday. This will likely be the last time we do an event in conjunction with Balloon Fiesta - we seem to lose workers to the ballooning activities. Come on down Kevin and bring some friends. Greg On Oct 10, 2007, at 11:11 AM, KEVIN LYNCH wrote: > Greg, you guys runnin' @ Sandia? Any balooning activities going on > that weekend or was all that last weekend? > > Kev Lynch > GT6 #6 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > To: FOT > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:17 PM > Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans > > Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans > anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett > last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have > the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at > the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque N.M. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > klynch_6 at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 10 16:30:50 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:30:50 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans and scattershields In-Reply-To: References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <91EF9819-2FB3-4A9C-B6D2-77B4496958CE@earthlink.net> Now that's the Spirit of Vintage!!! Thanks Henry. Will you be around tomorrow or off to Vegas? Greg On Oct 10, 2007, at 10:38 AM, wrote: > Come on by, 1000' is our usual minimum order but I'm sure I've got > a piece of scrap that will work for you................Henry 2227 > Commercial 259-1537 > From: lunkercars at earthlink.net > Subject: TR4 Trans and scattershields > Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:01:08 -0600 > To: dos_gusanos at msn.com; triosan at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net > > Thanks all, > For some reason my trans request took 12+ hrs. to get posted on the > list. I've got one on its way to a bus station in Wisconsin due to > leach Abq. late tomorrow night. $85 plus a bus ticket on E-Bay... > Sometimes you just gotta' love the on-line world. The Plum Pi just > might make another grid. > Regarding your scattershield question Chuck, I'm hoping that Henry > might sell me something less than 1000' of used conveyor belt. I'm > thinking that, combined with a aluminum inner skin should make for > something workable. If I get my hands on some belt, I would be > happy to send some out to anyone who wants some [can we work > something out Henry?]. > Greg Hilyer > TR4 #314 > > P.S. Henry, I did send Rob a e-mail last night - I'll probably hear > from him on my way back from the bus station. > > On Oct 10, 2007, at 9:36 AM, wrote: > > Check with Rob Noyes Smith 821-4369 He's got one, hem ight not > want to part with it........Henry > > > To: fot at autox.team.net > > From: lunkercars at earthlink.net > > Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:17:50 -0600 > > Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans > > > > Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans > > anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in > Hallett > > last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have > > the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. > Looking at > > the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > > TR4 #314 > > Albuquerque N.M. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 10 18:10:14 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 18:10:14 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans In-Reply-To: References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> <6B571C0F-BA86-42AF-B845-9F32CDC553A7@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Great Kevin, The track has RV hookups and I MIGHT be able to get you a freebie. IF I get the TR going [trans got on the bus this afternoon], I will welcome you to pedal our low power 510 around. SWMS has one day entries for $150 Sat including t-shirt and party - $125 Sunday - I can still get you the pre-registration price of $225 for both. How's that for a sales pitch? Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 P.S. I've seen you loose a hub before... assumed you had them stacked like cord wood. Actually, I think I may have been the first or second car past after you lost the wheel in Pueblo [ was driving Tom Deats' #79 Bugeye] They hadn't thrown the yellow yet and you can bet I was looking for a flying wheel in search of it's car!! Did you find it? How far away? Glad you kept the shiny side up. On Oct 10, 2007, at 4:44 PM, KEVIN LYNCH wrote: > I might, I just got an RV and need a road trip b4 the snow flies. I > lost a hub @ the Enduro so it'll be just an RV run if anything. > Didn't realize how much work this thing takes. Where will the > baloons be in relation to the track there? Kev > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > To: KEVIN LYNCH ; FOT > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:34 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 Trans > > Yes to both. In fact the event is called The Hot Air Historics/ > Redcoats on the Rio Grande and will feature a all british race on > Saturday. This will likely be the last time we do an event in > conjunction with Balloon Fiesta - we seem to lose workers to the > ballooning activities. Come on down Kevin and bring some friends. > Greg > On Oct 10, 2007, at 11:11 AM, KEVIN LYNCH wrote: > >> Greg, you guys runnin' @ Sandia? Any balooning activities going on >> that weekend or was all that last weekend? >> >> Kev Lynch >> GT6 #6 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> To: FOT >> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:17 PM >> Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans >> >> Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans >> anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett >> last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have >> the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at >> the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> klynch_6 at msn.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tony at tonydrews.com Wed Oct 10 18:57:07 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:57:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans In-Reply-To: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20071011005733.D79FA18763F@autox.team.net> When you replace the pressure plate, get the diaphragm type (Luk?), not the finger type one that came on the TR-3's. The finger type ones come apart, the diaphragm type from the later TR-4's don't. - Tony Drews At 08:17 PM 10/9/2007, Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer wrote: >Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans >anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett >last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have >the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at >the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. >Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >TR4 #314 >Albuquerque N.M. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >tony at tonydrews.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Wed Oct 10 20:40:04 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:40:04 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans and scattershields In-Reply-To: References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <470D8D04.5080203@bradakis.com> > For some reason my trans request took 12+ hrs. to get posted on the list. I try to keep things flowing along smoothly, but it doesn't always work. Some days you're the dog, some days you're the hydrant. There was a bit of a service interuption, should be back to normal. For now, at least - I'm fairly certain that "Qwest" is a four letter word. mjb. From spreiss at verizon.net Wed Oct 10 06:04:44 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 23:04:44 +1100 Subject: [Fot] fot emails Message-ID: <001501c80b35$bf938ef0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Hi I am a new fot member and glad to have access to the of depth knowledge offered by this group. I am wondering however if there is a way to set up my email preferences with fot so that I do not receive a copy of all emails sent between the membership, but rather to allow me to log on periodically and "tune in" to the discussions that have bearing on my interests and needs. Thanks for helping me make good use of this valuable resource. Steve Preiss From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 11 10:19:31 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:19:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] fot emails Message-ID: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com> Steve, there is digest version that you can subscribe to. from the Triumphest. Joe A >Hi >I am a new fot member and glad to have access to the of depth knowledge >offered by this group. I am wondering however if there is a way to set up my >email preferences with fot so that I do not receive a copy of all emails sent >between the membership, but rather to allow me to log on periodically and >"tune in" to the discussions that have bearing on my interests and needs. >Thanks for helping me make good use of this valuable resource. >Steve Preiss >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >n197tr4 at cs.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Thu Oct 11 11:14:12 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:14:12 -0600 Subject: [Fot] fot emails In-Reply-To: <001501c80b35$bf938ef0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> References: <001501c80b35$bf938ef0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: <470E59E4.2090404@bradakis.com> There are a couple of options. You can go to the info page, [ http://www.team.net/mailman/lisinfo ] log in and change your settings. The first thing you may want to try is setting your subscription to digest mode. This collects the individual emails into one single message sent out about once a day. It may suit your needs. Another option is to set your address to 'no mail' which means that address will still be on the list as a member, so you can send mail to the list. When you want to read what's been going on, go to the archive and browse around, http://www.team.net/archive You can read and respond to messages as desired. One other thing that I'll probably work on this fall is linking email lists to the discussion forums at http://www.team.net/the-local I tried it with triumphs and british-cars a while back, I don't know if anyone really bothered to use it. I never got it working quite right. Messages sent to the triumphs list showed up as forum postings. Postings on the british-cars forum were sent to the british-cars email list. I never took the time to figure out how to get them both working with two way traffic. Stay tuned, I may up the priority of that project. Actually I need to really go through ALL the Team.Net web pages to reorginise, update and improve. Yep, I'll get to it RealSoonNow, but first I have to get to work and start putting an MGC motor together! mjb. From britcars at bellsouth.net Thu Oct 11 11:22:49 2007 From: britcars at bellsouth.net (barry rosenberg) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:22:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] vandervell bearings on ebay Message-ID: Since I sold my TR4 race car and am quitting British car repair, I am selling off most of my accumulated stuff. I have a few sets of Triumph NOS Vandervell bearings I listed on ebay along with some of the NOS Lucas I have. Look up NOS Vandervell. I will be listing more stuff every so often. Thanks. From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Thu Oct 11 13:37:05 2007 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:37:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? References: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com> Message-ID: <001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott> http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx Is this for real ? From spitfiresuz at 141.com Thu Oct 11 13:56:51 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:56:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: <380-2200710411195651347@M2W004.mail2web.com> What I find amusing is they used the Triumph motorcycle logo for the rear plate in their "possible concept" rendition. I'll believe it when I see it! Neat article, though. :) Susan :) Original Message: ----------------- From: Don Elliott 58tr3a at videotron.ca Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:37:05 -0400 To: Fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx Is this for real ? spitfiresuz at 141.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web From S.Janzen at comcast.net Thu Oct 11 13:59:50 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:59:50 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? References: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com> <001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott> Message-ID: <006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Looks too much like a Saturn or Pontiac from the rear. BMW pulled it off with the iconic Mini shape and proportions but it may be harder to do with Triumph, unless they focus on the TR6 styling which is probably the best known here. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:37 PM Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? > http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx > > Is this for real ? > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Oct 11 14:19:54 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In-Reply-To: <006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com> <001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott> <006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, Scott Janzen wrote: > Looks too much like a Saturn or Pontiac from the rear. BMW pulled it off > with the iconic Mini shape and proportions but it may be harder to do with > Triumph, unless they focus on the TR6 styling which is probably the best > known here. Note that the GM "Kappa" platform is sold in Europe as the Opel GT (or is to be sold soon) but taking pix of those cars and "doctoring" them should be dead nuts simple. Of course GM is not BMW, so the pictures are probably not a good benchmark. I find the presence of persistent rumor of the rebirth of Triumph to be just fascinating. Imagine using a brand that's been dead for 25 years and generating "buzz" - that's a marketer's dream! Oh well. c ya, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From billb at bnj.com Thu Oct 11 14:21:33 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:21:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In-Reply-To: <380-2200710411195651347@M2W004.mail2web.com> References: <380-2200710411195651347@M2W004.mail2web.com> Message-ID: I caught that too. Odd that they considered the Triumph motorcycles to be an impediment to the brand. It's hardly that. On Oct 11, 2007, at 12:56 PM, spitfiresuz at 141.com wrote: > What I find amusing is they used the Triumph motorcycle logo for > the rear > plate in their "possible concept" rendition. > > I'll believe it when I see it! > > Neat article, though. :) > > Susan :) > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Don Elliott 58tr3a at videotron.ca > Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:37:05 -0400 > To: Fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? > > > http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx > > Is this for real ? > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Thu Oct 11 14:23:15 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:23:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In-Reply-To: <006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com> <001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott> <006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: Looks almost exactly like a Solstice, thought that's not exactly a bad thing. I'd be a lot more interested in a retro Triumph than a retro mini, but then we represent a tiny market, while the mini went after a pretty big one. On Oct 11, 2007, at 12:59 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: > Looks too much like a Saturn or Pontiac from the rear. BMW pulled > it off > with the iconic Mini shape and proportions but it may be harder to > do with > Triumph, unless they focus on the TR6 styling which is probably the > best > known here. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:37 PM > Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? > > >> http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx >> >> Is this for real ? >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> s.janzen at comcast.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From sbracing at sbcglobal.net Thu Oct 11 14:41:04 2007 From: sbracing at sbcglobal.net (Steven Benford Jr) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In-Reply-To: <001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott> Message-ID: <443314.28890.qm@web81008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The calendar says October 11 and not April 1st. Would be nice. I noticed the Triumph motorcycle logo as well. Don't you think the BMW marketing folks would have noticed that? Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> wrote: http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx Is this for real ? sbracing at sbcglobal.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tlizzard at msn.com Thu Oct 11 15:45:23 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:45:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? References: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com><001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott><006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: Looks like British pulp "news" fiction to me. Not that I'm against the idea mind you, but it will be difficult for anyone to unseat the Miata in the North American market. The Miata is just too good a car. Superb dynamics, coupled with Japanese reliability and a huge dealer network. Competeing directly against the little Mazda roadster will spell disaster. The only way to bring in a new sportscar would be to either go upmarket or downmarket from the Miata. I cannot see BMW going up in price as it will then compete directly against it's own Z roadster, and BMW has no clue how to build an inexpensive, entry level car so that is out as well. Another issue is that the majority of the market are not us, so to speak. When you say "Triumph sportscar" to someone 90% of the time the response is, "Oh a buddy of mine had a TR7, it was a piece of junk." I've had people even call my TR3 a TR7 and ask how I keep it running. There is a large negative image problem that would have to be overcome somehow for the car to sell in any kind of numbers. And then there is the spectre of a Triumph with a German engine. That makes my skin crawl. But I'm a crumudgon about that sort of thing. After all, you wouldn't put a DB 605 in a Supermarine Spitfire now would you. Terry Stetler. From tlizzard at msn.com Thu Oct 11 15:50:21 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:50:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] fot emails References: <001501c80b35$bf938ef0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> <470E59E4.2090404@bradakis.com> Message-ID: A forum would be very interesting. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark J. Bradakis To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] fot emails There are a couple of options. You can go to the info page, [ http://www.team.net/mailman/lisinfo ] log in and change your settings. The first thing you may want to try is setting your subscription to digest mode. This collects the individual emails into one single message sent out about once a day. It may suit your needs. Another option is to set your address to 'no mail' which means that address will still be on the list as a member, so you can send mail to the list. When you want to read what's been going on, go to the archive and browse around, http://www.team.net/archive You can read and respond to messages as desired. One other thing that I'll probably work on this fall is linking email lists to the discussion forums at http://www.team.net/the-local I tried it with triumphs and british-cars a while back, I don't know if anyone really bothered to use it. I never got it working quite right. Messages sent to the triumphs list showed up as forum postings. Postings on the british-cars forum were sent to the british-cars email list. I never took the time to figure out how to get them both working with two way traffic. Stay tuned, I may up the priority of that project. Actually I need to really go through ALL the Team.Net web pages to reorginise, update and improve. Yep, I'll get to it RealSoonNow, but first I have to get to work and start putting an MGC motor together! mjb. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 11 19:37:53 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:37:53 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710100829id1b7ffy93462ec9e45b8b8e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006501c80c70$82140640$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> I am collecting data on a variety of ballistic materials, Kevlar being one of them. I intend to fabricate my own scatter shield by lining the tunnel. I have some inquiries out now requesting ballistic properties and I have expalined what I intend to do. This is one company I have inquired to. http://www.armorco.com/shop/category.asp?catid=3 You really don't need that much material since all you need is enough to cover the bell housing with sufficient thickness. I have never heard of a catastophic transmission explosion in a Triumph but I have seen 1/2 of a flywheel fired through the hood of an MG like it was shot out of a cannon. The damage done to the footwells and firewall was absolutely hair raising. The only reason the driver retained his right foot was the remaining half hit the steering shaft before it took out the gas pedal, brake lines, fuel line, misc electrical and then penetrated the passenger side foot well and eventually seperated the engine from the transmission completely. I will pass on all the info I get. Jim Gray RMVR # 102 TR4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Chuck Arnold Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 9:30 AM To: Greg Lunker Hilyer Cc: FOT Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one for a TR5/6 On 10/9/07, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: > > Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans anywhere > near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett last > weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have the > car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at the > carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. Greg > "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 > Albuquerque N.M. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Thu Oct 11 20:06:15 2007 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:06:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? References: <006501c80c70$82140640$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Message-ID: <000801c80c74$78df7830$5e062218@alex> Thanks for the effort James I am interested in replacing my current heavy 1/8" stainless steal shroud. rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Gray" To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Scatershield source? >I am collecting data on a variety of ballistic materials, Kevlar being > one of them. I intend to > fabricate my own scatter shield by lining the tunnel. I have some > inquiries out now requesting ballistic > properties and I have expalined what I intend to do. This is one company > I have inquired to. > http://www.armorco.com/shop/category.asp?catid=3 > You really don't need that much material since all you need is enough to > cover the bell housing > with sufficient thickness. > I have never heard of a catastophic transmission explosion in a Triumph > but I have seen 1/2 of > a flywheel fired through the hood of an MG like it was shot out of a > cannon. > The damage done to the footwells and firewall was absolutely hair > raising. > The only reason the driver retained his right foot was the remaining > half hit the steering shaft before > it took out the gas pedal, brake lines, fuel line, misc electrical and > then penetrated the passenger side > foot well and eventually seperated the engine from the transmission > completely. > I will pass on all the info I get. > Jim Gray > RMVR # 102 > TR4 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of Chuck Arnold > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 9:30 AM > To: Greg Lunker Hilyer > Cc: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? > > > On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one for a > TR5/6 > > On 10/9/07, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: >> >> Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans anywhere > >> near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett last >> weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have the >> car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at the >> carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. Greg >> "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> triosan at gmail.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > > > -- > Chuck Arnold > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > 19to1tr6 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Herald948 at aol.com Thu Oct 11 20:22:17 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:22:17 EDT Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/11/2007 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tlizzard at msn.com writes: And then there is the spectre of a Triumph with a German engine. That makes my skin crawl. But I'm a crumudgon about that sort of thing. ==AM== Don't forget that Triumph was started by Nuremberg-born Siegfried Bettmann. ;-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From Herald948 at aol.com Thu Oct 11 20:24:14 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:24:14 EDT Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/11/2007 4:22:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: I caught that too. Odd that they considered the Triumph motorcycles to be an impediment to the brand. It's hardly that. ==AM== Actually, I think the name is fairly well respected for motorcycles as well as cars and has been for some time (in fact, it was a well-respected name even in the mid-1930s, when the company, having already sold off the bicycle division, sold off the motorcycle division)! --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From hottr6 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 11 20:34:12 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:34:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? Message-ID: >On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one for a >TR5/6 Uncle Jack used to sell them. I have one in Rags. Fits great with minimal impact on room for the right foot. Shane Ingate, enjoying the stars in New Mexico. _________________________________________________________________ Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. Its free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM From mlcooknj at msn.com Thu Oct 11 20:51:02 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:51:02 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: And then there's the German car with a Triumph engine that is fetching incredible sums at auction - and it probably holds water better than the idea of a BMW-built Triumph. Mike Cook ----- Original Message ----- From: Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:22 PM To: tlizzard at msn.com; Fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In a message dated 10/11/2007 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tlizzard at msn.com writes: And then there is the spectre of a Triumph with a German engine. That makes my skin crawl. But I'm a crumudgon about that sort of thing. ==AM== Don't forget that Triumph was started by Nuremberg-born Siegfried Bettmann. ;-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com mlcooknj at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mlcooknj at msn.com Thu Oct 11 21:02:04 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:02:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: Hi All- I think I have said this before but .... There is no commercial sense in BMW trying to launch a new Triumph sports car. If it is to be like the originals, "affordable," the potential sales volume could not possibly justify the development cost. The potential customers for such a car have probably never heard of Triumph or MG. BMW already has a range of sports models. So, unless the announcement comes from them, on BMW letterhead, anything you see on the internet or in print is a pipe dream. Mike Cook ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 4:23 PM To: Scott Janzen Cc: Fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Looks almost exactly like a Solstice, thought that's not exactly a bad thing. I'd be a lot more interested in a retro Triumph than a retro mini, but then we represent a tiny market, while the mini went after a pretty big one. On Oct 11, 2007, at 12:59 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: > Looks too much like a Saturn or Pontiac from the rear. BMW pulled > it off > with the iconic Mini shape and proportions but it may be harder to > do with > Triumph, unless they focus on the TR6 styling which is probably the > best > known here. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:37 PM > Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? > > >> http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx >> >> Is this for real ? >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> s.janzen at comcast.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot mlcooknj at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitfiresuz at 141.com Thu Oct 11 20:56:40 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:56:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <470EE268.4070203@141.com> GOOD one, Mike! :D Ours has probably valued upward 150-200% since we got it in 2001. ;) Susan :) michael cook wrote: > And then there's the German car with a Triumph engine that is fetching > incredible sums at auction - and it probably holds water better than the idea > of a BMW-built Triumph. > > Mike Cook > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Herald948 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:22 PM > To: tlizzard at msn.com; Fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? > > In a message dated 10/11/2007 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > tlizzard at msn.com writes: > > And then there is the spectre of a Triumph with a German engine. That makes > my skin crawl. But I'm a crumudgon about that sort of thing. > > > ==AM== > Don't forget that Triumph was started by Nuremberg-born Siegfried Bettmann. > ;-) > > --Andy Mace > > *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? > *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph > Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > > Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald > Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) > > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > mlcooknj at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From mlcooknj at msn.com Thu Oct 11 21:05:07 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:05:07 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: Susan- Smart and incisive analysis! You can judge the value of the article by the fact that the people don't even know the difference in the logos. Ain't gonna happen. I'll even bet $$$ on it. (anybody got two bits?) Mike Cook ----- Original Message ----- From: spitfiresuz at 141.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:57 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? What I find amusing is they used the Triumph motorcycle logo for the rear plate in their "possible concept" rendition. I'll believe it when I see it! Neat article, though. :) Susan :) Original Message: ----------------- From: Don Elliott 58tr3a at videotron.ca Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:37:05 -0400 To: Fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx Is this for real ? spitfiresuz at 141.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web mlcooknj at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fasttrs at mindspring.com Thu Oct 11 21:00:35 2007 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:00:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Kastner Cup Challenge-Car Eligibility and Awarding of Cup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000b01c80c7c$0f906b20$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> I must apologize for bringing this controversy back into discussion. Thanks for all the kind words. I do value the friendships and the memories that I have gained by being a part of this group. I have put too much money and hard work into my car to turn around and spend more money on it for just one race. Mike -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:59 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Kastner Cup Challenge-Car Eligibility and Awarding of Cup FoT, Every time we have a major event for the FoT, there is some sort of controversy. That's Ok, to a point. SVRA has always worked well with us on car eligibility to that end that seems to make the sense....at least to me. But we cant please everyone. (ipso facto) There is a method in place for the awarding of the Kastner Cup. For the time being it will remain in place. Perhaps we could bring the current list wide controversies to a close.....in the best interests of FoT. This is likely to be the best FoT Gathering that we have ever had. I would rather build on that premise than hash over issues that are likely have no good solutions. If anyone has any further heartburn, on this subject, please contact me directly and privately. I'll try my best to deal with it. From Group44TR7 at aol.com Thu Oct 11 21:01:43 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:01:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted Message-ID: When was it that SCCA first started requiring that the production class roll cage design include structural support in front of the driver? I am asking that question because I am under the impression that it was not required by the GRC in 1972. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From gasket.works at verizon.net Thu Oct 11 22:34:43 2007 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (MDunst/Gasket Works) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:34:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? References: Message-ID: <002201c80c89$366b1760$1502a8c0@Belkin> I once had several of these made out of balistic material with SFI rating. It was made by Diest perhaps you can contact them directly and ask for the TR4 scattershield. I'm sure they still have the pattern. It wraps completely around the gearbox with heavy nyon straps. It has steel tabs up front that bolt to the bell housing. M. Dunst www.headgasket.com Gasket Works USA, LLC 626.358.1616 Voice 626.628.3777 Fax GMT -8 Pacific ----- Original Message ----- From: Shane Ingate To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Scatershield source? > >On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one for a > >TR5/6 > > Uncle Jack used to sell them. I have one in Rags. Fits great with minimal > impact on room for the right foot. > > Shane Ingate, enjoying the stars in New Mexico. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. > Its free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gasket.works at gte.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Fri Oct 12 00:04:27 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:04:27 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Play in steering column Message-ID: <000001c80c95$bf282a00$171a694c@computer> One of my TR6s was used to SCCA club race in the eighties and nineties. >From all that pulling on the steering wheel, it has developed about < to = inch of in and out play (felt as movement at the steering wheel) where the column goes into the steering box. Not having been into the rack and pinion I'm not sure what is happening so I don't know if it is fixable, needs to be replaced, or if it can go quite a while before being replaced. The car is not on the street; I only autocross and race it. Thanks, Jim Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From rocky at spitfire4.com Fri Oct 12 03:12:01 2007 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:12:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted References: Message-ID: <001c01c80caf$f94a10d0$6601a8c0@S1099895562> I think it was probably 2000. That year I went to get an annual and flunked and the front support was one of the reasons, so the tech inspector was nice enough to write nothing in my logbook. Since I was only planning to do a couple of regionals after not racing in '99, I bagged that and went and fixed the car instead. I have annuals in the book in 1999 and 2001 on adjacent pages -- until this year 2000 is the only gap since 1995. In '72 only the roll bar was required by GCR. My car's logbooks go back to then, when logbooks were first required, and the pictures in that book show only a rollbar. Pictures in my second logbook, issued in '79, also show only the bar. I don't think I put in the cage until the early '80s, and even then it was not yet required. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted > When was it that SCCA first started requiring that the production class > roll > cage design include structural support in front of the driver? I am > asking > that question because I am under the impression that it was not required > by > the GRC in 1972. From chris at tr4-racing.de Fri Oct 12 04:30:25 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (chris at tr4-racing.de) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:30:25 +0000 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) Message-ID: <95016055-1192185033-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1268214521-@bxe014.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Hi Mike, Over here we ignore the problem if cars are more modified than others. If the UK drivers enter a race of the Triumph-Competition, we know that the come with very fast cars an tough drivers. The will probably will win all TC races but that don't bother us to much. It does bother the people who are keen on overall wins.....but who cares?! If you invite UK drivers.....be prepared that they might take you the win away. But you learn how fast this lump Triumph stuff can go. Always a pleasure to meet those English teams. Cheers Chris __________________ I must apologize for bringing this controversy back into discussion. Thanks for all the kind words. I do value the friendships and the memories that I have gained by being a part of this group. I have put too much money and hard work into my car to turn around and spend more money on it for just one race. Mike Gesendet mit BlackBerry von Vodafone From Group44TR7 at aol.com Fri Oct 12 05:45:46 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 07:45:46 EDT Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronologically Gifted Message-ID: Joe, Rocky, .. All of our ITA and ITS cars had full cages back in the late 1980s, so I can't imagine that the production classes (other than perhaps showroom stock) could have been running without full cages before 2000. I am also wondering whether the full cage requirements were imposed at different times on open cars vs coupes, sedans. Cary In a message dated 10/12/2007 2:12:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rocky at spitfire4.com writes: I think it was probably 2000. That year I went to get an annual and flunked and the front support was one of the reasons, so the tech inspector was nice enough to write nothing in my logbook. Since I was only planning to do a couple of regionals after not racing in '99, I bagged that and went and fixed the car instead. I have annuals in the book in 1999 and 2001 on adjacent pages -- until this year 2000 is the only gap since 1995. In '72 only the roll bar was required by GCR. My car's logbooks go back to then, when logbooks were first required, and the pictures in that book show only a rollbar. Pictures in my second logbook, issued in '79, also show only the bar. I don't think I put in the cage until the early '80s, and even then it was not yet required. --Rocky Entriken ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From DSPGTi at aol.com Fri Oct 12 06:13:36 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 08:13:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted Message-ID: I recently purchased the SCCA Vintage and Historic Rule book. Included in the book are reprints of several years of the GCR the last being 1972. Under 1972 general specifications it is stated that all cars must have a "roll bar" and includes a reference to specifications in Appendix Z. There is no Appendix Z included in the reprint so I will contact SCCA to see if I can get a copy. If there are any other specific details anyone is interested in, please feel free to contact me. Dave Y. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From Herald948 at aol.com Fri Oct 12 07:06:07 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:06:07 EDT Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/11/2007 11:01:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mlcooknj at msn.com writes: I think I have said this before but .... There is no commercial sense in BMW trying to launch a new Triumph sports car. If it is to be like the originals, "affordable," the potential sales volume could not possibly justify the development cost. ==AM== Probably true. But then, what price level is considered "affordable" nowadays? ==AM== The potential customers for such a car have probably never heard of Triumph or MG. ==AM== Also probably true. On the other hand, BMW deserves credit for brilliant marketing in the US, where -- realistically speaking -- more people likely remembered the Hudson Jet or the Henry J than remembered the original Mini. ;-) At the same time, Mazda did an equally brilliant job of reviving the "affordable sports car," in part by capitalizing on the memories of TRs and Spitfires and MGBs, etc. But that was nearly 20 years ago, when memories of such cars were fresher. ==AM== BMW already has a range of sports models. ==AM== Yes, but I'm not sure any of them could be considered "affordable" in the same way that Triumphs were. If BMW were to bring back Triumph, I imagine it will be much more upmarket, the way the MINI is at least in the US. (Sadly, we don't get any of the more basic levels of MINI here. Too bad, since that means a brand-new MINI likely will never be in my price range.) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From DSPGTi at aol.com Fri Oct 12 07:16:06 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:16:06 EDT Subject: [Fot] Kastner Cup Challenge-Car Eligibility and Awarding of Cup Message-ID: In the past, SVRA has been very liberal with allowing exceptions for the featured marque cars. Cars modified beyond vintage rules would fall into group 8. As far as the Kastner Cup race goes, it doesn't matter the level of mods. We will have everything from Prewar up. We can't all expect to be competitive under that kind of grouping. Let's just do it for the show. Dave Y. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From kaskas at cox.net Fri Oct 12 09:29:50 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 08:29:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted References: Message-ID: <004101c80ce4$bb01e700$5717c548@RW> All the cars I prepared in 1972 had roll over bars and NONE had a driver dash support for it was not required by the GCR of the SCCA. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 8:01 PM Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted > When was it that SCCA first started requiring that the production class > roll > cage design include structural support in front of the driver? I am > asking > that question because I am under the impression that it was not required > by > the GRC in 1972. > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Fri Oct 12 10:59:08 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (steve) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:59:08 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [Fot] TR3 / 4 cam needed Message-ID: <13479731.1192208348871.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Does anyone out there have a used stock cam for a TR3 / 4 for sale? Ted S is going to grind it for my race car. ~Steve From rocky at spitfire4.com Fri Oct 12 13:52:42 2007 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:52:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronologically Gifted References: Message-ID: <002401c80d09$74a3ae90$6701a8c0@S1099895562> "Full Cage" in the '80s meant a four-post structure roughly approximating the A and B pillars of a passenger sedan. Usually they were, at minimum, a 6-point structure including a couple of rearward (usually) supports. The newer portion forward of the "A Pillars" made mine an 8-point structure, and was not described to me as cage support so much as leg protection. The knee bar was, earlier on, a recommendation. It apparently became a requirement along with the forward supports. The evolution of mine kinda tells the tale. It began in 1971 as an Autopower competition rollbar -- a 4-point structure with two feet on the floor behind the seat and two on the back inner fenders. Then in the '80s I added a Kirk cage kit which made it a 6-point when two more feet were added in the front part of the driver compartment. The cage kit was two bent bars extending forward from the top of the rollbar, a crossbar mounted high in front, and a double door bar on the driver side. There was no bar in the kit for the passenger-side door so we put one in from straight bar stock. When I added the forward extensions and knee bar -- Charlie Clark of KC Raceware in Kansas City did that for me -- we also added a second door bar on the passenger side which I believe at that time had become required. While my driver-side door bars are fairly close together and joined with vertical links, the passenger-side door bars are not joined in that manner and are farther apart. At that time too, Charlie told me my whole cage was over-spec -- bigger bars than the rules required for my size car -- so he made the forward extensions out of the smaller bars. The bigger bars was simply what Autopower and Kirk provided, and more recently I'm glad they are over-spec -- my rationale there is that the specs are predicated on me getting on my head or a similar-size car (Sprites, etc.) trying to share my space, but now I find myself out there with GT1 Camaros and the like going by me 60 mph faster than I can do so having the over-spec cage makes me feel a little better about that. Most recently we added a crossbar between the uprights of the original Autopower rollbar. Its sole purpose is to be an anchor for the shoulder harness straps so I'm no longer bolting them (at too much angle) to the floor. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: Group44TR7 at aol.com To: rocky at spitfire4.com ; fot at autox.team.net Cc: JWoesvra at aol.com Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronologically Gifted Joe, Rocky, .. All of our ITA and ITS cars had full cages back in the late 1980s, so I can't imagine that the production classes (other than perhaps showroom stock) could have been running without full cages before 2000. I am also wondering whether the full cage requirements were imposed at different times on open cars vs coupes, sedans. Cary In a message dated 10/12/2007 2:12:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rocky at spitfire4.com writes: I think it was probably 2000. That year I went to get an annual and flunked and the front support was one of the reasons, so the tech inspector was nice enough to write nothing in my logbook. Since I was only planning to do a couple of regionals after not racing in '99, I bagged that and went and fixed the car instead. I have annuals in the book in 1999 and 2001 on adjacent pages -- until this year 2000 is the only gap since 1995. In '72 only the roll bar was required by GCR. My car's logbooks go back to then, when logbooks were first required, and the pictures in that book show only a rollbar. Pictures in my second logbook, issued in '79, also show only the bar. I don't think I put in the cage until the early '80s, and even then it was not yet required. --Rocky Entriken ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Fri Oct 12 16:20:45 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:20:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <470FF33D.8050909@cyberspeedway.net> Are you talking about the foot intrusion protection forward of the front hoop? That is relatively new. We have a regional this weekend and I will try to sort it out. I will also see if we can determine exactly when a full cage was required on newly constructed cars. For a long time the roll hoop cars were grandfathered in after newly constructed cars were required to have hoops. Greg Lund Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > When was it that SCCA first started requiring that the production class roll > cage design include structural support in front of the driver? I am asking > that question because I am under the impression that it was not required by > the GRC in 1972. > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gtlund at cyberspeedway.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Fri Oct 12 20:14:03 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:14:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Looking for a TR6 hardtop in N. California Message-ID: <000001c80d3e$ba880930$171a694c@computer> Does anyone know of a TR6 hardtop for sale in Northern California? It can be rough (even dents and no headliner) since I only need it in order to be eligible to rallycross. Jim Hearn Sacramento Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Fri Oct 12 22:20:39 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:20:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] cage trivia Message-ID: <47104797.3030309@cyberspeedway.net> After combing through available SCCA GCRs and PCSs we have come up with the following: The oldest GCR we have on hand is 1987. This refers to production cars only 1.Forward bracing of the front hoop is required in '87 but we don't know when it was first required. The showroom stock cages were 6 point without forward braces but we can't tell or remember if production/GT cages were ever allowed without forward braces. 2.Cars registered after 1/1/79 are required to have roll cages. This means that cars which were built and logbooked before 1/1/79 were still able to race in '87 with only a roll hoop. I don't have a date when the roll cage was required for all. FYI I noticed that cells were first required for newly constructed cars in 1983. I don't know when they became mandatory for all. Greg Lund From koblinger at verizon.net Fri Oct 12 22:58:54 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:58:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] cage trivia In-Reply-To: <47104797.3030309@cyberspeedway.net> References: <47104797.3030309@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <4710508E.8040001@verizon.net> Just a data point. Below is a link to a photo of Elliot Forbes-Robinson in a GP Spit from Nov. 1980. If I remember right, the event was a 4 hour Regional Enduro. You can see that the cage has forward braces from the vertical legs of the hoop. http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8957/efrspitfirepc9.jpg Cheers, Kurt O. greg wrote: >After combing through available SCCA GCRs and PCSs we have come up with >the following: >The oldest GCR we have on hand is 1987. > >This refers to production cars only > 1.Forward bracing of the front hoop is required in '87 but we don't >know when it was first required. The showroom stock cages were 6 point >without forward braces but we can't tell or remember if production/GT >cages were ever allowed without forward braces. > > 2.Cars registered after 1/1/79 are required to have roll cages. This >means that cars which were built and logbooked before 1/1/79 were still >able to race in '87 with only a roll hoop. I don't have a date when the >roll cage was required for all. > >FYI I noticed that cells were first required for newly constructed cars >in 1983. I don't know when they became mandatory for all. > >Greg Lund >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rikrock at aol.com Sat Oct 13 10:50:46 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 12:50:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Who Knows This Spit Racecar? Message-ID: <8C9DBD055C6F22B-85C-8B25@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> Amici, A gentleman by the name of Lapham is selling a vintage-legal Spitfire racer somewhere in Indiana.? A friend of mine ?is considering buying the car.? The owner says it has been raced at Gingerman, Blackhawk, Mid-Ohio, and I forget where else.? If you know the car, could you please let me know what you know? Or, if anyone knows of a legal (or close to legal) Triumph of?ANY model for sale, could you please point me to it?? My buddy lives in southeastern PA, but he'll go far for a good deal ! Thanks! Rich Rock Pottstown, PA ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From igofaster at charter.net Sat Oct 13 12:38:48 2007 From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:38:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] motor oil query Message-ID: <20071013143848.ODKBZ.107222.root@fepweb14> Heys guys,,, newbie to the forum...STILL appreciative of the non-stop information. My GT6 is equipped with Kendall 50W motor oil at the time. We've run three weekends now and wonder if we can run a synthetic now. I haven't been able to locate the Kendall in Texas. My parts guy is recommending Amsoil synthetic. What is the consensus among our group.... Bullet Bob recommended a BRAD PENN motor oil of which I'm having difficulties locating as well... am I just looking in the wrong places? Kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead 33 GT6+ From fpspitfire at insightbb.com Sat Oct 13 12:44:52 2007 From: fpspitfire at insightbb.com (fpspitfire at insightbb.com) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:44:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] motor oil query In-Reply-To: <20071013143848.ODKBZ.107222.root@fepweb14> References: <20071013143848.ODKBZ.107222.root@fepweb14> Message-ID: I'm a big fan of the RedLine products. I run 40 wt. in my car. aaron #8 HP Spitfire 1500 Southern Illinois Region SCCA ----- Original Message ----- From: igofaster at charter.net Date: Saturday, October 13, 2007 13:39 Subject: [Fot] motor oil query To: fot at autox.team.net > Heys guys,,, newbie to the forum...STILL appreciative of the non- > stop information. My GT6 is equipped with Kendall 50W motor oil > at the time. We've run three weekends now and wonder if we can > run a synthetic now. I haven't been able to locate the Kendall > in Texas. My parts guy is recommending Amsoil synthetic. What is > the consensus among our group.... Bullet Bob recommended a > BRAD PENN motor oil of which I'm having difficulties locating as > well... am I just looking in the wrong places? > > Kindest regards, > Bobby Whitehead > 33 GT6+ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > fpspitfire at insightbb.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chris at tr4-racing.de Sat Oct 13 13:14:10 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: <004601c80dcd$3fe68d70$6402a8c0@HOME> It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing car on its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some bucks more to spend... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w From billb at bnj.com Sat Oct 13 15:53:50 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:53:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <004601c80dcd$3fe68d70$6402a8c0@HOME> References: <004601c80dcd$3fe68d70$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <5B2AF419-4D62-4416-AAF6-A64CE71D9564@bnj.com> I wonder if it's a real one--I looked at the replica 917 that's been for sale on ebay--It was at Road America as I recall. Very nicely done, RSR motor, lot's a trick stuff. It would be fun to drive it on the road, and the price was reasonable. I nearly bought it, but sanity overtook me. Besides, what I really want is a Lola T70 for the street. On Oct 13, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive > racing car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chris at tr4-racing.de Sat Oct 13 16:20:56 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 00:20:56 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: <35F0134E183D4500A765795E49D7D954@Notebook> There are several 917 in road legal versions. The most famous one was the "Berg Spider" which was used for hill climbs. Here some other ones: http://www.nine-one-seven.de/registry_917021.htm http://www.i-t-d.net/Porsche_917/917-Strasse/917-strasse.php The car on that video is from here.....and a still used race car: http://www.ottocars.net/ The owner webside... Cheers Chris I wonder if it's a real one--I looked at the replica 917 that's been for sale on ebay--It was at Road America as I recall. Very nicely done, RSR motor, lot's a trick stuff. It would be fun to drive it on the road, and the price was reasonable. I nearly bought it, but sanity overtook me. Besides, what I really want is a Lola T70 for the street. On Oct 13, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive > racing car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tony at tonydrews.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 13 18:56:33 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 17:56:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <35F0134E183D4500A765795E49D7D954@Notebook> Message-ID: <122711.19574.qm@web57603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Now that's just plain showing off! Lucky (deleted)! Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: There are several 917 in road legal versions. The most famous one was the "Berg Spider" which was used for hill climbs. Here some other ones: http://www.nine-one-seven.de/registry_917021.htm http://www.i-t-d.net/Porsche_917/917-Strasse/917-strasse.php The car on that video is from here.....and a still used race car: http://www.ottocars.net/ The owner webside... Cheers Chris I wonder if it's a real one--I looked at the replica 917 that's been for sale on ebay--It was at Road America as I recall. Very nicely done, RSR motor, lot's a trick stuff. It would be fun to drive it on the road, and the price was reasonable. I nearly bought it, but sanity overtook me. Besides, what I really want is a Lola T70 for the street. On Oct 13, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive > racing car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot tony at tonydrews.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. From rocky at spitfire4.com Sat Oct 13 21:08:24 2007 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:08:24 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Who Knows This Spit Racecar? References: <8C9DBD055C6F22B-85C-8B25@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000001c80e12$c2e978a0$6701a8c0@S1099895562> He might call my friend (and engine-builder) Duane Bailey of West Michigan Imports, who's a Spitfire racer and GingerMan is his nearest track. He'd probably know about any Spits racing in GLDiv. 616-878-5774 or dbailey_wmi at yahoo.com --Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 11:50 AM Subject: [Fot] Who Knows This Spit Racecar? > Amici, > > A gentleman by the name of Lapham is selling a vintage-legal Spitfire > racer somewhere in Indiana.? A friend of mine ?is considering buying the > car.? The owner says it has been raced at Gingerman, Blackhawk, Mid-Ohio, > and I forget where else.? If you know the car, could you please let me > know what you know? > > Or, if anyone knows of a legal (or close to legal) Triumph of?ANY model > for sale, could you please point me to it?? My buddy lives in southeastern > PA, but he'll go far for a good deal ! > > Thanks! > > Rich Rock > Pottstown, PA > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rocky at spitfire4.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Sat Oct 13 23:35:28 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:35:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Play in steering column In-Reply-To: <5C33EB5352EE814AB72F655EA92399A20EF7FC8D@exc2-na-chq.bfusa.com> Message-ID: <000101c80e24$074a4ae0$171a694c@computer> Somehow my email read incorrectly on the amount of play in my steering column and it ended up looking like about an inch of play. I put some fractions in but they didn't stay that way in the email. The movement was about .090 of an inch but still it was bothersome especially if it was in the steering box. I appreciate all the posts on this and Jack it did happen to be what you had experienced. It was the pinch on the spline down by the steering box. Nice to have an easy fix. Thanks again guys. Jim Hearn Sacramento Two '74 TR6s -----Original Message----- From: Coffey, Jack [mailto:CoffeyJack at bfusa.com] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 6:22 AM To: jim hearn Subject: RE: [Fot] Play in steering column Hi Jim... I have experienced similar problems with my TR250....check the pinch-bolts that hold the steering shaft splines in the lower universal joint (just north of the steering rack). It is also possible to do some adjustment at the upper end of the steering shaft and check the under dash steering shaft brackets .... there is a felt packing material in these brackets which deteriorates and allows 'slop' to develop. All of these operations are detailed in the TR6 repair operations manual Jack Coffey ph:615-937-1535 coffeyjack at bfusa.com -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jim hearn Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 1:04 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Play in steering column One of my TR6s was used to SCCA club race in the eighties and nineties. >From all that pulling on the steering wheel, it has developed about < to = inch of in and out play (felt as movement at the steering wheel) where the column goes into the steering box. Not having been into the rack and pinion I'm not sure what is happening so I don't know if it is fixable, needs to be replaced, or if it can go quite a while before being replaced. The car is not on the street; I only autocross and race it. Thanks, Jim Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] coffeyjack at bfusa.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tony at tonydrews.com Sun Oct 14 09:26:56 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 10:26:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] motor oil query In-Reply-To: <20071013143848.ODKBZ.107222.root@fepweb14> References: <20071013143848.ODKBZ.107222.root@fepweb14> Message-ID: <20071014152722.9D42D1879CE@autox.team.net> This has come up a few times. There was a relatively recent drop in ZDDP levels in motor oil across the spectrum caused by an EPA ruling. (ZDDP being burned causes decreased cat converter life.) This additive is critical to valvetrain life (specifically tappets and camshafts) in flat tappet engines. There are a few motor oils that have acceptable levels on ZDDP - (Kendall is no longer one of them): Brad Penn Joe Gibbs Racing oil Redline Valvoline Racing oil ("not for street use") - I think this is the least expensive of the bunch, and I special ordered it from NAPA. There are two versions - nonsynthetic (I'd use for break in), and Synthetic (what I normally use) There are also a couple of oil additives that boost your ZDDP levels: STP Oil treatment in the Red bottle (use an entire bottle in an oil change) - I don't use this one GM's EOS (Engine Oil Supplement?) - this is really intended to be an assembly lubricant. I add a half a bottle in an 8 to 10 quart oil change. I also use it liberally on the cam and lifters during engine assembly. By the way, I run the break-in oil for one race weekend and then switch to the synthetic. - Tony Drews At 01:38 PM 10/13/2007, igofaster at charter.net wrote: >Heys guys,,, newbie to the forum...STILL appreciative of the >non-stop information. My GT6 is equipped with Kendall 50W motor oil >at the time. We've run three weekends now and wonder if we can run a >synthetic now. I haven't been able to locate the Kendall in Texas. >My parts guy is recommending Amsoil synthetic. What is the consensus >among our group.... Bullet Bob recommended a BRAD PENN motor oil of >which I'm having difficulties locating as well... am I just looking >in the wrong places? > >Kindest regards, >Bobby Whitehead >33 GT6+ >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >tony at tonydrews.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dos_gusanos at msn.com Tue Oct 9 22:43:48 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:43:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> References: <60C60298-D6F5-49E0-AD6C-CADFDA3605A0@earthlink.net> <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Man, a lot has been said here, as I see it the Kastner Cup stands on its own. If you love to get together with all the other Triumph Nuts, you should go. The playing field will never be level and the victory must exist in one's mind through your own participation. I finished last at the all Elva race, and was thrilled just to have overcome all the hurdles that stood in my way just to get the car together and get there. When I started vintage racing in 1986, I had the pleasure to share the track in my TR3 with real Cobras, Cunningham C4R's and lots of other cool cars. Now the prospects of racing with IT 240z refugees just doesn't hold the same appeal. (say that real fast) Our local club just "expanded eligibility" to 1980. As I read the rule change, it included cars like Honda Civic which was done purely out of the convenience that there are a couple in town that want to show up and race. This sounds like a true expansion rather than a continuation policy, I support niether. General Racing puts their events together fairly well pairing period prepared cars with other cars from their period. You would not see the Group 44 TR6 pass the Bolton-Rothschild TR4 at a General Racing event because they never shared the track with each other back in the day. Just check out the video that Kas forwarded the other day of the 1971 runoffs. First thing the announcer touts is that the amatuers are gone and this race will be among professionals. Then it looks like a Spec 240Z race except for the TR6 hanging in there. These cars are a whole different breed from cars 6 or 7 years earlier that were still racing on wire wheels, maybe even being street driven. The future of Vintage Racing from my point of view is rather bleak as the prices of cars from the vintage period increase, and folks who remember the Vintage Period for what it was die off. Organizers of current vintage events who have strayed from the pre '67 formula are desperately trying to fill their grids with cars from the seventies, the period where amatuer road racing died, and finding there is little more enthusiasm for these Nerd Cars now, as there was back then. Some clubs that have stuck with a hard line on the Vintage cutoff dates, like CSRG, appear to be still doing well and I hope to participate with all their cool 50's and 60's cars next year. OBEY THE '67 GCR!!!!!!! Cheers, Henry Morrison Albuquerque, NM By the way, anybody going to Vegas? > To: fot at autox.team.net> From: lunkercars at earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 22:13:16 -0600> Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008> > Begin forwarded message:> > > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM MDT> > To: FOT > > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008> >> >>> >> FoTers,> >> I think Henry Morrison will be as surprised as I, to find myself > >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this discussion > >> several times before. However... Personally, I encourage expanded > >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for bigger grids. > >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a earlier > >> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR.> >> Regarding your car Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high > >> level of preparation, wouldn't it be more concise to list what it > >> DID leave the factory with? To me " All original steel panels > >> except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door, all 4 wings and > >> hardtop " is like saying " all original car except for body, > >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know what GRP is > >> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the > >> rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of > >> the art [which your car sounds to be] - not> >> "an act or scheme to out whit or deceive" {Webster}> >> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on > >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no disrespect aimed at > >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I > >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there > >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual > >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a > >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason.> >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules > >> read:> >>> >> Engine:> >>> >> Same type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit).> >> Period correct roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. > >> Compression Ratio is limited to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be > >> documented as higher from the factory as delivered for street > >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and period correct. No aluminum > >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless originally sold as > >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free but must not conflict > >> with stock type appearance of body.> >>> >>> >> Carburetion:> >> Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi > >> count). No Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped.> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> ---------------------> >>> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in compliance with the > >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host club] is even more strict > >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 was [as graciously > >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an inch of it's > >> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group > >> [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I > >> doubt if Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - > >> not really fair to the others.> >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how my Vintage prepped > >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans to attend > >> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain!> >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer> >> TR4 #314> >> Albuquerque N.M.> _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From britcars at bellsouth.net Tue Oct 9 15:27:42 2007 From: britcars at bellsouth.net (barry rosenberg) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 17:27:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Vandervell bearings on ebay Message-ID: Since I sold my TR4 race car and am quitting the British car business, I no longer need a lot of the stuff I have. I have put some items on ebay, some of which are Vandervell bearings for Triumphs. These are the good older bearings in original boxes. I have had then for at least 25 years now. This sale will surely be regretted in the future if I ever want to build another hot TR, but a new house is still underway. I will be constantly adding items thru out the next few months. Thanks. From keithfiles at btinternet.com Sun Oct 14 11:10:39 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:10:39 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <000a01c80a01$887a2350$41e3efdc@co3017577a> Message-ID: <20071014171118.4F0141879CE@autox.team.net> Hi Geoff, Thanks for the info. I was hoping that, as part of my retirement in a 5 years time, to do a bit of a tour with the TR6 and Oz was on my list of places to visit especially Phillip Island and Bathurst. I guess that I will need to re-consider; would my US TR4 built to the US vintage regulations be acceptable? Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: Geoffrey Byrne [mailto:gkbyrne at optushome.com.au] Sent: 09 October 2007 00:18 To: Keith Files; 'Kas Kastner'; 'Mike Munson'; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Friends Just to add an international perspective for interest , Keiths car would not get an Historic Log Book in Australia . Our Historic cars have to be OEM with very little mods ie plus one inch wider wheels Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Files" To: "'Kas Kastner'" ; "'Mike Munson'" ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 3:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > HI everybody, > > Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on the > cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion > either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when > compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the > Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver TR6 > placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won outright > at VIR in 2004. > > My TR6 has: > > Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 pistons > (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, > Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 DCOE > Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, luminiton > ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic RaceCraft > for the princely sum of c $20k. > > Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, > Quartermaster clutch. > > Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on > circuit). > > Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where > terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. > > Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot > callipers (these do make a big difference). > > Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door > and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs > less than a standard road car. > > Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. > > The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by > Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. > > The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as > well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then > Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) by > a country mile. > > At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a > Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over > here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well > driven spitfires. > > As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over in > 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am > going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over > youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys just > to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are > available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are > some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). > > As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. > > Cheers, Keith. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Kas Kastner > Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 > To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; > ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; > sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Munson" > To: ; ; ; > ; ; ; > ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > > 1900 > > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > > higher level than what SCCA does. > > > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > > > Mike Munson > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > > run > > > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > > standards. > > > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > > championship > > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > > > Jack Woehrle > > SVRA Technical Director > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > kaskas at cox.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > keithfiles at btinternet.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gkbyrne at optushome.com.au > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From keithfiles at btinternet.com Sun Oct 14 11:16:47 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:16:47 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710080948q5a046676kabb4a7e1a12da23a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071014171726.858EF1879F2@autox.team.net> Hi Chuck, The springs are 650 lbs all round; I will have to take a front and rear out to give you lengths. I use both a front and rear sway bar and both were designed and built by Jon Wood of Classic RaceCraft and are > in diameter. Cheers, Keith _____ From: Chuck Arnold [mailto:triosan at gmail.com] Sent: 08 October 2007 17:49 To: Keith Files Cc: Kas Kastner; Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Do, in SOVERN, the following would be illegal: +60 pistons [40=max] Any Webers [PI or two Strombergs only allowed] Roller rockers Maybe the tranny case Rear Konis [must use levers] Wilwood vented rotors Glass panels [any] So, what rate springs do you use [ponds/inch if possible] and what are their free lengths? Do you use a rear sway bar? Thanks. Hope to meet and race with you guys some time. Chuck Arnold On 10/6/07, Keith Files wrote: HI everybody, Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on the cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver TR6 placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won outright at VIR in 2004. My TR6 has: Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 pistons (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 DCOE Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, luminiton ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic RaceCraft for the princely sum of c $20k. Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, Quartermaster clutch. Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on circuit). Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot callipers (these do make a big difference). Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs less than a standard road car. Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) by a country mile. At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well driven spitfires. As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over in 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys just to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles= btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kas Kastner Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Munson" To: < JWoesvra at aol.com >; ; ; >; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > 1900 > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > higher level than what SCCA does. > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > Mike Munson > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > run > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > standards. > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > championship > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot triosan at gmail.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -- Chuck Arnold From tr5racer at btinternet.com Sun Oct 14 14:50:12 2007 From: tr5racer at btinternet.com (JOSEPH HUGHES) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 21:50:12 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Fot] 60th Anniversary race 2012 Message-ID: <748731.84979.qm@web86607.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Although it is still nearly 5 years away, I too intend bringing my TR5 over to race in 2012 at the 60th Anniversary race. I came over in 2002 and co-drove a TR7V8 in the 2 driver race but this time I will bring my own TR5 which by then will be in its 35th year of racing(same as the driver)! I have the distinction of having raced TR's longer than anyone else in the UK . First race was at Silverstone in 1977. However I am probably well short of some of the US drivers like Bill Dentinger and Dick Stockton! I had a brief drive in Keiths TR4 at Road America this year before the throttle cable snapped and had a great time again just as in 2002. Roll on 2012! Regards Mike Hughes --------------------------------- For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month. From igofaster at charter.net Sun Oct 14 14:58:45 2007 From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:58:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? Message-ID: <20071014165845.RFJT1.38126.root@fepweb09> The GT6+ #33 CVAR has a shift light at 5500 rpm and a rev limiter at 6000 rpm. I'm not running the crap out of it on a weekend outting. Are these superior motor oils we use designed to last more than a weekend? Is it retentive to change the oil after such use in one weekend, or can I run 3,4, 5 or more events in synthetic? Bobby Whitehead 1970 GT6+ #33 CVAR From tlizzard at msn.com Sun Oct 14 15:03:07 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 17:03:07 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? References: <20071014165845.RFJT1.38126.root@fepweb09> Message-ID: Oil is cheap. Change it often. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: igofaster at charter.net To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:58 PM Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? The GT6+ #33 CVAR has a shift light at 5500 rpm and a rev limiter at 6000 rpm. I'm not running the crap out of it on a weekend outting. Are these superior motor oils we use designed to last more than a weekend? Is it retentive to change the oil after such use in one weekend, or can I run 3,4, 5 or more events in synthetic? Bobby Whitehead 1970 GT6+ #33 CVAR _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Sun Oct 14 15:16:02 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 17:16:02 EDT Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/14/2007 5:03:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tlizzard at msn.com writes: Oil is cheap. Change it often. Terry Stetler what he said... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From fpspitfire at insightbb.com Sun Oct 14 15:55:52 2007 From: fpspitfire at insightbb.com (fpspitfire at insightbb.com) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 16:55:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? In-Reply-To: References: <20071014165845.RFJT1.38126.root@fepweb09> Message-ID: If you use cheap oil change it every weekend. With the redline I change it after every second or third event. aaron ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Stetler Date: Sunday, October 14, 2007 16:03 Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? To: fot at autox.team.net, igofaster at charter.net > Oil is cheap. > > Change it often. > > Terry Stetler > ----- Original Message ----- > From: igofaster at charter.net > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:58 PM > Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? > > > The GT6+ #33 CVAR has a shift light at 5500 rpm and a rev > limiter at 6000 > rpm. I'm not running the crap out of it on a weekend outting. > Are these superior motor oils we use designed to last > more than a weekend? > Is it retentive to change the oil after such use in one weekend, > or can I run > 3,4, 5 or more events in synthetic? > > Bobby Whitehead > 1970 GT6+ #33 CVAR > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > tlizzard at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > fpspitfire at insightbb.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From hottr6 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 14 18:19:04 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 20:19:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: Christian Marx wrote: >It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing car >on >its own wheels to the track....[snip] I too am another one who insists on driving the car to, AND from the track. Blame it on my upbringing; my Dad raced at Phillip Island and Bathurst. He drove the MG to the track, emptied the car and pulled off the plates, went racing and if the car survived, piled all the junk back in and drove home. If not, repaired the car at the track. The only mods to the car was a rollbar and a lap belt. The Bathurst 500 was done on the same set of tires. I navigated for my cousin who rallied a twin-cam Escort. Again a drive/to from the forest. I carried on this tradition when I raced bikes in the 70s, and the Pantera in the 90s. So it goes with Rags. Besides, I cannot afford a trailer and truck. This hobby is expensive enough as it is. :( Shane Ingate in NM. _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Cafi. Stop by today! http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 14 18:57:14 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 17:57:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> One of the guys out here in Arizona will use the Department of Motor Vehicle website to obtain a temporary license tag for his race prepared Porsche 911 on race weekends. The tag is good for three days (weekends and Holidays don't count toward the expiration time!) and costs $1.00. Tapes the permit that he prints out to his rear window and off he heads to the track. At 05:19 PM 10/14/2007, Shane Ingate wrote: >Christian Marx wrote: > > >It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing car > >on > >its own wheels to the track....[snip] > >I too am another one who insists on driving the car to, AND from the track. >Blame it on my upbringing; my Dad raced at Phillip Island and Bathurst. >He drove the MG to the track, emptied the car and pulled off the plates, >went >racing and if the car survived, piled all the junk back in and drove home. >If not, repaired the car at the track. > >The only mods to the car was a rollbar and a lap belt. The Bathurst 500 >was done on the same set of tires. > >I navigated for my cousin who rallied a twin-cam Escort. Again a drive/to >from the forest. > >I carried on this tradition when I raced bikes in the 70s, and the Pantera >in >the 90s. So it goes with Rags. > >Besides, I cannot afford a trailer and truck. This hobby is expensive >enough as it is. :( > >Shane Ingate in NM. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Cafi. Stop by >today! >http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >dave at microworks.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From koblinger at verizon.net Sun Oct 14 19:39:21 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:39:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> Driving race cars to the track was quite common in the old days, even F1 cars. http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/9475/60trintingnant9dd.jpg Some of you So. Cal. folks will recognize that piece of road as the stretch of 60 freeway just before the Day St. offramp that took you to Riverside Raceway. It's 1960 and that is Maurice Trintignant in his Cooper F1 on the way to the 1960 USGP. The teams used garages in the town of Riverside because there was nothing yet built at the track. Similar scenes could be seen around Le Mans and Monaco as those tracks had no real garage facilities in the old days. Cheers, Kurt Oblinger David W. Riddle wrote: >One of the guys out here in Arizona will use the Department of Motor >Vehicle website to obtain a temporary license tag for his race >prepared Porsche 911 on race weekends. The tag is good for three >days (weekends and Holidays don't count toward the expiration time!) >and costs $1.00. > >Tapes the permit that he prints out to his rear window and off he >heads to the track. > >At 05:19 PM 10/14/2007, Shane Ingate wrote: > > >>Christian Marx wrote: >> >> >> >>>It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing car >>>on >>>its own wheels to the track....[snip] >>> >>> >>I too am another one who insists on driving the car to, AND from the track. >>Blame it on my upbringing; my Dad raced at Phillip Island and Bathurst. >>He drove the MG to the track, emptied the car and pulled off the plates, >>went >>racing and if the car survived, piled all the junk back in and drove home. >>If not, repaired the car at the track. >> >>The only mods to the car was a rollbar and a lap belt. The Bathurst 500 >>was done on the same set of tires. >> >>I navigated for my cousin who rallied a twin-cam Escort. Again a drive/to >> >> >>from the forest. > > >>I carried on this tradition when I raced bikes in the 70s, and the Pantera >>in >>the 90s. So it goes with Rags. >> >>Besides, I cannot afford a trailer and truck. This hobby is expensive >>enough as it is. :( >> >>Shane Ingate in NM. >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Cafi. Stop by >>today! >>http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Sun Oct 14 19:55:23 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 21:55:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? References: <20071014165845.RFJT1.38126.root@fepweb09> Message-ID: <002701c80ece$734717f0$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> Keep running Kendall or what ever it is called now. It has all the good race engine stuff stuff. Syn is okay but if leaks bother you than syn will find a place to leak out. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:58 PM Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? > The GT6+ #33 CVAR has a shift light at 5500 rpm and a rev limiter at 6000 > rpm. I'm not running the crap out of it on a weekend outting. > Are these superior motor oils we use designed to last more than a weekend? > Is it retentive to change the oil after such use in one weekend, or can I > run 3,4, 5 or more events in synthetic? > > Bobby Whitehead > 1970 GT6+ #33 CVAR > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billbab at mac.com Sun Oct 14 20:14:23 2007 From: billbab at mac.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:14:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> Message-ID: <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> First one bounced--too big. Hey Mark, isn't 4K a bit too restrictive? On Oct 14, 2007, at 7:12 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I recognize the stretch of road. It's right before the main > entrance. Hard to believe that god-forsaken area is strip malls and > tract houses now. Last year I was up in Gorman where we used to > ride our dirt bikes for miles and miles all day long, and I > couldn't recognize anything. Solid houses as far as you can see. > > I drove my dirt bike (a 1976 Yamaha 360MX) from Belmont Shores to > the track several times to race in the Riverside Grand Prix. I had > a tail light, a fake headlight and the license plate from my street > bike. If I got stopped I doubt I would have been able to convince a > cop it was a 1972 BMW R50/5 I didn't have a car at the time. In > 1977 I seized the top end in practice, fixed it in the paddock > (freed the rings, sanded the scuff marks off the piston and got the > aluminum out of the bore with battery acid) put it all back > together and finished third. Seized again on the way home. Fixed it > again next to the road. Made it home. > > Thank God those days are over, though I wouldn't mind having that > energy level and absurd determination again. The next year I had a > real truck--I made it from a VW Squareback wagon. Cut the back end > off right behind the seats and made a flatbed out of it--we called > it "the yellow peril" which my chinese friend Barney greatly > appreciated. It was only marginally more reliable than the 360MX. > Had to take the whole bed off to change the oil. Didn't do that > very often. > > I'm building an Ambro, and I intend to street license it, expressly > so I can drive it to the track and race. > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:39 PM, Kurt Oblinger wrote: > >> Driving race cars to the track was quite common in the old days, >> even F1 >> cars. >> http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/9475/60trintingnant9dd.jpg >> >> Some of you So. Cal. folks will recognize that piece of road as the >> stretch of 60 freeway just before the Day St. offramp that took >> you to >> Riverside Raceway. It's 1960 and that is Maurice Trintignant in his >> Cooper F1 on the way to the 1960 USGP. The teams used garages in the >> town of Riverside because there was nothing yet built at the track. >> Similar scenes could be seen around Le Mans and Monaco as those >> tracks >> had no real garage facilities in the old days. From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 14 20:20:23 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:20:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> Message-ID: <839FC7BA-61F1-4D3E-954B-4FFC503F70A1@bnj.com> Incidentally, I still have BOTH bikes. Solid proof that I'm not a collector--I just can't stand to sell my motorcycles, though I'm nowhere nearly as attached to my modern bikes. On Oct 14, 2007, at 7:14 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > First one bounced--too big. Hey Mark, isn't 4K a bit too restrictive? > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 7:12 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> I recognize the stretch of road. It's right before the main >> entrance. Hard to believe that god-forsaken area is strip malls >> and tract houses now. Last year I was up in Gorman where we used >> to ride our dirt bikes for miles and miles all day long, and I >> couldn't recognize anything. Solid houses as far as you can see. >> >> I drove my dirt bike (a 1976 Yamaha 360MX) from Belmont Shores to >> the track several times to race in the Riverside Grand Prix. I had >> a tail light, a fake headlight and the license plate from my >> street bike. If I got stopped I doubt I would have been able to >> convince a cop it was a 1972 BMW R50/5 I didn't have a car at the >> time. In 1977 I seized the top end in practice, fixed it in the >> paddock (freed the rings, sanded the scuff marks off the piston >> and got the aluminum out of the bore with battery acid) put it all >> back together and finished second or third. Seized again on the >> way home. Fixed it again next to the road. Made it home. >> >> Thank God those days are over, though I wouldn't mind having that >> energy level and absurd determination again. The next year I had a >> real truck--I made it from a VW Squareback wagon. Cut the back end >> off right behind the seats and made a flatbed out of it--we called >> it "the yellow peril" which my chinese friend Barney greatly >> appreciated. It was only marginally more reliable than the 360MX. >> Had to take the whole bed off to change the oil. Didn't do that >> very often. >> >> I'm building an Ambro, and I intend to street license it, >> expressly so I can drive it to the track and race. >> >> On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:39 PM, Kurt Oblinger wrote: >> >>> Driving race cars to the track was quite common in the old days, >>> even F1 >>> cars. >>> http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/9475/60trintingnant9dd.jpg >>> >>> Some of you So. Cal. folks will recognize that piece of road as the >>> stretch of 60 freeway just before the Day St. offramp that took >>> you to >>> Riverside Raceway. It's 1960 and that is Maurice Trintignant in his >>> Cooper F1 on the way to the 1960 USGP. The teams used garages in the >>> town of Riverside because there was nothing yet built at the track. >>> Similar scenes could be seen around Le Mans and Monaco as those >>> tracks >>> had no real garage facilities in the old days. From cak at dimebank.com Sun Oct 14 20:29:20 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: <200710150229.l9F2TK7b003835@moose.dimebank.com> It was certainly de rigeur "back in the day" - no transporters for the factory teams, especially the sports car drivers. My work desk has a print of this: http://www.klemcoll.com/image/57C1B-9A.aspx?page= The caption that Klementaski put on it was "at 180 mph on the way to Brescia for the Mille Miglia, the wind almost tore my arm out of its socket while taking this photo". Hard to fathom, actually. From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 14 11:38:15 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 10:38:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: <60C60298-D6F5-49E0-AD6C-CADFDA3605A0@earthlink.net> <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Well said. I'd like to forward this to the general email list of SOVREN, since we're going through some of the same issues. I initially came down in favor of changing our eligibility to 1972, but I've been convinced by this and other arguments that remaining with 1968 is the right thing to do. On Oct 9, 2007, at 9:43 PM, wrote: > Man, a lot has been said here, as I see it the Kastner Cup > stands on its > own. If you love to get together with all the other Triumph Nuts, > you should > go. The playing field will never be level and the victory must > exist in one's > mind through your own participation. I finished last at the all > Elva race, > and was thrilled just to have overcome all the hurdles that stood > in my way > just to get the car together and get there. > When I started vintage racing in 1986, I had the pleasure to > share the > track in my TR3 with real Cobras, Cunningham C4R's and lots of > other cool > cars. Now the prospects of racing with IT 240z refugees just > doesn't hold the > same appeal. (say that real fast) Our local club just "expanded > eligibility" > to 1980. As I read the rule change, it included cars like Honda > Civic which > was done purely out of the convenience that there are a couple in > town that > want to show up and race. This sounds like a true expansion rather > than a > continuation policy, I support niether. > General Racing puts their events together fairly well pairing > period > prepared cars with other cars from their period. You would not see > the Group > 44 TR6 pass the Bolton-Rothschild TR4 at a General Racing event > because they > never shared the track with each other back in the day. Just check > out the > video that Kas forwarded the other day of the 1971 runoffs. First > thing the > announcer touts is that the amatuers are gone and this race will be > among > professionals. Then it looks like a Spec 240Z race except for the > TR6 hanging > in there. These cars are a whole different breed from cars 6 or 7 > years > earlier that were still racing on wire wheels, maybe even being > street driven. > The future of Vintage Racing from my point of view is rather > bleak as the > prices of cars from the vintage period increase, and folks who > remember the > Vintage Period for what it was die off. Organizers of current > vintage events > who have strayed from the pre '67 formula are desperately trying to > fill their > grids with cars from the seventies, the period where amatuer road > racing died, > and finding there is little more enthusiasm for these Nerd Cars > now, as there > was back then. Some clubs that have stuck with a hard line on the > Vintage > cutoff dates, like CSRG, appear to be still doing well and I hope to > participate with all their cool 50's and 60's cars next year. > > OBEY THE '67 GCR!!!!!!! > > Cheers, > Henry Morrison > Albuquerque, NM > > By the way, anybody going to Vegas? > > >> To: fot at autox.team.net> From: lunkercars at earthlink.net> Date: Mon, >> 8 Oct > 2007 22:13:16 -0600> Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS > GLEN 2008> >> Begin forwarded message:> > > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > > > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM > MDT> > To: FOT > > > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - > WATKINS GLEN > 2008> >> >>> >> FoTers,> >> I think Henry Morrison will be as > surprised as I, > to find myself > >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this > discussion > >> several times before. However... Personally, I > encourage > expanded > >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for > bigger > grids. > >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a > earlier > >>> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR.> >> Regarding >>> your car > Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high > >> level of > preparation, > wouldn't it be more concise to list what it > >> DID leave the > factory with? > To me " All original steel panels > >> except for GRP hood, trunk > lid, drivers > door, all 4 wings and > >> hardtop " is like saying " all original > car except > for body, > >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know > what GRP is >>>> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the >>>> > >> > rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of > >> > the art > [which your car sounds to be] - not> >> "an act or scheme to out > whit or > deceive" {Webster}> >> I guess I don't really understand what the > Kastner Cup > is based on > >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no > disrespect aimed at >>>> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I > >> >>>> actually > removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there > >> would > be no > question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual > >> Webers > were and > are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a > >> welder but > won't use it to > "improve" my diff for the same reason.> >> Most of the cars I raced > with in > Utah were from VARA who's rules > >> read:> >>> >> Engine:> >>> >> > Same > type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit).> >> > Period correct > roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. > >> Compression Ratio > is limited > to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be > >> documented as higher from > the factory > as delivered for street > >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and > period > correct. No aluminum > >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless > originally sold as > >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free > but must not > conflict > >> with stock type appearance of body.> >>> >>> >> > Carburetion:> >> > Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi > >> > count). No > Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped.> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > ---------------------> >>> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in > compliance with the > >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host > club] is even > more strict > >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 > was [as > graciously > >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an > inch of it's >>>> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group >>>> > >> > [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I > >> > doubt if > Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - > >> not > really fair > to the others.> >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how > my Vintage > prepped > >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans > to attend >>>> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain!> >>>> >> Greg > "Lunker" Hilyer> >> TR4 #314> >> Albuquerque N.M.> > _______________________________________________> > http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing > list> > Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From keithfiles at btinternet.com Sun Oct 14 12:05:58 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:05:58 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20071014180636.7C2F3187B01@autox.team.net> Hi Greg, Happy to try to address the question of what it did leave the factory with in terms of body, chassis and transmission. The inner body tub has to be original in all respects i.e. all inner panels and bulkheads are standard (although there are some who replace the mild steel with aluminium but I do not) with a number of outer panels in glass fibre (light weight but not by much as the overall reduction in weight is minor 930 kgs as opposed to a street car of 1024 kgs.). No changes to the original silhouette are allowed. The use of glass fibre is preferred as the panels are easy and cheap to replace. The chassis is standard Triumph with all original suspension pick-up points (The rear trailing arms are standard Triumph as is all of the front suspension bar the springs and shocks). The engine block and head must be original and must be in their original location. The gearbox must use a Triumph casing; we use the Stag one as it is stronger but not lighter. The differential case is standard Triumph. Hope this helps. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg "Lunker" Hilyer Sent: 09 October 2007 05:13 To: FOT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Begin forwarded message: > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM MDT > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > >> >> FoTers, >> I think Henry Morrison will be as surprised as I, to find myself >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this discussion >> several times before. However... Personally, I encourage expanded >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for bigger grids. >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a earlier >> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR. >> Regarding your car Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high >> level of preparation, wouldn't it be more concise to list what it >> DID leave the factory with? To me " All original steel panels >> except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door, all 4 wings and >> hardtop " is like saying " all original car except for body, >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know what GRP is >> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the >> rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of >> the art [which your car sounds to be] - not >> "an act or scheme to out whit or deceive" {Webster} >> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no disrespect aimed at >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason. >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules >> read: >> >> Engine: >> >> Same type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit). >> Period correct roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. >> Compression Ratio is limited to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be >> documented as higher from the factory as delivered for street >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and period correct. No aluminum >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless originally sold as >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free but must not conflict >> with stock type appearance of body. >> >> >> Carburetion: >> Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi >> count). No Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped. >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------- >> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in compliance with the >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host club] is even more strict >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 was [as graciously >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an inch of it's >> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group >> [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I >> doubt if Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - >> not really fair to the others. >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how my Vintage prepped >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans to attend >> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain! >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 14 20:12:33 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:12:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> Message-ID: <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> I recognize the stretch of road. It's right before the main entrance. Hard to believe that god-forsaken area is strip malls and tract houses now. Last year I was up in Gorman where we used to ride our dirt bikes for miles and miles all day long, and I couldn't recognize anything. Solid houses as far as you can see. I drove my dirt bike (a 1976 Yamaha 360MX) from Belmont Shores to the track several times to race in the Riverside Grand Prix. I had a tail light, a fake headlight and the license plate from my street bike. If I got stopped I doubt I would have been able to convince a cop it was a 1972 BMW R50/5 I didn't have a car at the time. In 1977 I seized the top end in practice, fixed it in the paddock (freed the rings, sanded the scuff marks off the piston and got the aluminum out of the bore with battery acid) put it all back together and finished third. Seized again on the way home. Fixed it again next to the road. Made it home. Thank God those days are over, though I wouldn't mind having that energy level and absurd determination again. The next year I had a real truck--I made it from a VW Squareback wagon. Cut the back end off right behind the seats and made a flatbed out of it--we called it "the yellow peril" which my chinese friend Barney greatly appreciated. It was only marginally more reliable than the 360MX. Had to take the whole bed off to change the oil. Didn't do that very often. I'm building an Ambro, and I intend to street license it, expressly so I can drive it to the track and race. On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:39 PM, Kurt Oblinger wrote: > Driving race cars to the track was quite common in the old days, > even F1 > cars. > http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/9475/60trintingnant9dd.jpg > > Some of you So. Cal. folks will recognize that piece of road as the > stretch of 60 freeway just before the Day St. offramp that took you to > Riverside Raceway. It's 1960 and that is Maurice Trintignant in his > Cooper F1 on the way to the 1960 USGP. The teams used garages in the > town of Riverside because there was nothing yet built at the track. > Similar scenes could be seen around Le Mans and Monaco as those tracks > had no real garage facilities in the old days. > > Cheers, > Kurt Oblinger > > David W. Riddle wrote: > >> One of the guys out here in Arizona will use the Department of Motor >> Vehicle website to obtain a temporary license tag for his race >> prepared Porsche 911 on race weekends. The tag is good for three >> days (weekends and Holidays don't count toward the expiration time!) >> and costs $1.00. >> >> Tapes the permit that he prints out to his rear window and off he >> heads to the track. >> >> At 05:19 PM 10/14/2007, Shane Ingate wrote: >> >> >>> Christian Marx wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive >>>> racing car >>>> on >>>> its own wheels to the track....[snip] >>>> >>>> >>> I too am another one who insists on driving the car to, AND from >>> the track. >>> Blame it on my upbringing; my Dad raced at Phillip Island and >>> Bathurst. >>> He drove the MG to the track, emptied the car and pulled off the >>> plates, >>> went >>> racing and if the car survived, piled all the junk back in and >>> drove home. >>> If not, repaired the car at the track. >>> >>> The only mods to the car was a rollbar and a lap belt. The >>> Bathurst 500 >>> was done on the same set of tires. >>> >>> I navigated for my cousin who rallied a twin-cam Escort. Again a >>> drive/to >>> >>> >>> from the forest. >> >> >>> I carried on this tradition when I raced bikes in the 70s, and >>> the Pantera >>> in >>> the 90s. So it goes with Rags. >>> >>> Besides, I cannot afford a trailer and truck. This hobby is >>> expensive >>> enough as it is. :( >>> >>> Shane Ingate in NM. >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger >>> Cafi. Stop by >>> today! >>> http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html? >>> ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> dave at microworks.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> koblinger at verizon.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From koblinger at verizon.net Sun Oct 14 20:47:11 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:47:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> Message-ID: <4712D4AF.7000907@verizon.net> Bill Babcock wrote: >> I'm building an Ambro, and I intend to street license it, expressly >> so I can drive it to the track and race. > I plan to do the same with a vintage Devin body I've had for about, oh, 20 years. Cheers, Kurt O. From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sun Oct 14 21:00:34 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:00:34 EDT Subject: [Fot] motor oil query Message-ID: Hi Bobby, Re your posting below: I did a soild 4 months of research into this subject Jan-April 2007, and there is a vast amount of information, and mis-information on the subject of oils on the internet. Quite frankly, I believe aonly about 10% of what I have read on the subject. The absolute best information may be found here: http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html Be sure to check out this link on that page: For a listing of oils tested, click here. I will shortly be changing from Valvoline Synpower (SL) to Amsoil Series 2000 Racing (Synthetic) 20w50 Nuff said! Best Regards, and good luck! Lion F Guyot 1963-1971 Triumph Vitesse Mk.2 Convertible - exact same engine as your GT6+ Original posting follows: Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:38:48 -0700 From: Subject: [Fot] motor oil query To: fot at autox.team.net Heys guys,,, newbie to the forum...STILL appreciative of the non-stop information. My GT6 is equipped with Kendall 50W motor oil at the time. We've run three weekends now and wonder if we can run a synthetic now. I haven't been able to locate the Kendall in Texas. My parts guy is recommending Amsoil synthetic. What is the consensus among our group.... Bullet Bob recommended a BRAD PENN motor oil of which I'm having difficulties locating as well... am I just looking in the wrong places? Kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead 33 GT6+ From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Sun Oct 14 21:13:36 2007 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:13:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20071014221336.y4qjz1apk0k4oos0@secure.uwalumni.com> Kurt Oblinger wrote: > Driving race cars to the track was quite common > in the old days, even F1 cars. > http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/9475/60trintingnant9dd.jpg > > Some of you So. Cal. folks will recognize that piece > of road as the stretch of 60 freeway just before the > Day St. offramp that took you to Riverside Raceway. It's been decades since I lived in SoCal, but I remember that stretch of road VERY well since I was at UC-Riverside at the time and went to virtually all the races during those 4+ years. > The teams used garages in the town of Riverside... As did the teams entered in the annual LA Times GP for sports cars. For a couple of years I worked at a foreign car repair/accessories shop on University Avenue where we put up two or three team cars every year. A highlight of those weekends was watching the drivers compete on the shop's slot car track (built as a miniature replica of the Riverside track, of course). And when I started racing my TR-4 in '63, I drove it to the Raceway as well. Who needs a trailer for a five-mile trip -- and what's more fun than driving a race car on the street? Jim Hill From John.Reed at wilson.com Mon Oct 15 07:05:39 2007 From: John.Reed at wilson.com (John.Reed at wilson.com) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 06:05:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <5B2AF419-4D62-4416-AAF6-A64CE71D9564@bnj.com> Message-ID: Last year George Stouffer drove his priceless Ford GT40 to the Botham Vineyard antique car show. Wish I could have seen and heard that. Regards, John Reed Staff Photographer Wilson Sporting Goods Co. 8750 W Bryn Mawr Ave, Chicago, Illinois 60631, USA Tel. + 1.773.714.6895, fax +1.773.714.4585 John.Reed at wilson.com www.wilson.com www.amersports.com Please note that effective immediately, my e-mail , phone number and street address have changed. Please update your files accordingly. Bill Babcock Sent by: fot-bounces+john.reed=wilson.com at autox.team.net 10/13/07 02:53 PM To "Marx Christian tr4-racing" cc fot at autox.team.net Subject Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car I wonder if it's a real one--I looked at the replica 917 that's been for sale on ebay--It was at Road America as I recall. Very nicely done, RSR motor, lot's a trick stuff. It would be fun to drive it on the road, and the price was reasonable. I nearly bought it, but sanity overtook me. Besides, what I really want is a Lola T70 for the street. On Oct 13, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive > racing car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot john.reed at wilson.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. From wgrosenbach at juno.com Mon Oct 15 07:26:23 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:26:23 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: <20071015.072624.2468.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Driving your racecar to the track gives you a different mind set at the event, you can break your ride home. Trailering gives more peace of mind, knowing if you break it, you can still get home. I generally drove my car to vintage races. Once in a snow storm with no heat or wipers. Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has a member who last year celebrated his 100th RMVR event as a driver. Bill Miller drives his almost original, stock, as delivered, Shelby GT-350 H to & from events. Packs everything he needs for the weekend in it, including Gerry Cans of fuel. This summer, he drove it from Denver to Miller MSP in Utah. He ONLY runs it on race fuel, so no just stopping at the Mini-Mart. That 100 events does NOT include the about half again that many other events & track days he & his steed have participated in. I believe he has been towed home twice, in all that time. Chek Beuf, an original owner of an original 427 Cobra, used to drive it, on race slicks, to the track. We had several appearances by a TR-3 which pulled a trailer with its race tyres & support materials. Original owner of an original Porsche 912 (looking like it just came off the showroom floor), has been driving to & from the track for years now. My car broke in Steamboat one year, Clive Averill loaded my car on his trailer and I drove his GT-6 back to Denver (you cannot believe how good that 2 litre six sounds at full chat, with no muffler, in the Johnson tunnel!). RMVR has an Historic Group, that encourages entries that are more what the factory produced, not what can be built from the catalogs. We have the Danny Colins Cup award, for that group. Points are awarded for driving To & From the track. If the point of the exercise is to recreate, reenact, racing from earlier years, we would drive to & from the track, time with analog stop watches. Like that's going to happen. Bill 70 GT-6+ On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 "Marx Christian tr4-racing" writes: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing > car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Mon Oct 15 07:38:46 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:38:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? References: <20071014165845.RFJT1.38126.root@fepweb09> Message-ID: <002d01c80f30$b5f72920$0200a8c0@Desktop> What's cheaper oil or new motor Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:58 PM Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? > The GT6+ #33 CVAR has a shift light at 5500 rpm and a rev limiter at 6000 > rpm. I'm not running the crap out of it on a weekend outting. > Are these superior motor oils we use designed to last more than a weekend? > Is it retentive to change the oil after such use in one weekend, or can I > run 3,4, 5 or more events in synthetic? > > Bobby Whitehead > 1970 GT6+ #33 CVAR > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 15 08:05:09 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:05:09 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: <561BBBA6.62ABE6CF.00159EE9@cs.com> FoT Richard Taylor currently & totally redefines DRIVING TO THE TRACK. TR4 #196 with trailer hitch & trailer with racewheels and motorcycle. >Driving your racecar to the track gives you a different mind set at the >event, you can break your ride home. Trailering gives more peace of mind, >knowing if you break it, you can still get home. I generally drove my car >to vintage races. Once in a snow storm with no heat or wipers. > >Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has a member who last year celebrated his >100th RMVR event as a driver. Bill Miller drives his almost original, >stock, as delivered, Shelby GT-350 H to & from events. Packs everything >he needs for the weekend in it, including Gerry Cans of fuel. This >summer, he drove it from Denver to Miller MSP in Utah. He ONLY runs it on >race fuel, so no just stopping at the Mini-Mart. That 100 events does NOT >include the about half again that many other events & track days he & his >steed have participated in. I believe he has been towed home twice, in >all that time. > >Chek Beuf, an original owner of an original 427 Cobra, used to drive it, >on race slicks, to the track. >We had several appearances by a TR-3 which pulled a trailer with its race >tyres & support materials. >Original owner of an original Porsche 912 (looking like it just came off >the showroom floor), has been driving to & from the track for years now. >My car broke in Steamboat one year, Clive Averill loaded my car on his >trailer and I drove his GT-6 back to Denver (you cannot believe how good >that 2 litre six sounds at full chat, with no muffler, in the Johnson >tunnel!). > >RMVR has an Historic Group, that encourages entries that are more what >the factory produced, not what can be built from the catalogs. We have >the Danny Colins Cup award, for that group. Points are awarded for >driving To & From the track. > >If the point of the exercise is to recreate, reenact, racing from earlier >years, we would drive to & from the track, time with analog stop watches. >Like that's going to happen. > >Bill >70 GT-6+ > >On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 "Marx Christian tr4-racing" > writes: >> It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing >> car on >> its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some >> bucks more to >> spend... >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> wgrosenbach at juno.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >n197tr4 at cs.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 15 08:24:56 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:24:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] Ed Diehl to be FoT Honored Guest at Watkins Glen - Kastner Cup 2008 Message-ID: FoT List....it gives me great pleasure to announce that Ed Diehl will be joining us at Watkins Glen in 2008. Ed raced one of the 12 Hours of Sebring TR4s for Kas Kastner. Ed is proud of his race beginings with the Triumph TR3 and remains active in Road Racing....see short bio below gleaned from the ROAD RACING DRIVERS CLUB website. Joe Alexander "Ed Diehl Largo, Fla. Ed started racing in 1960 at Marlboro, Md., in a Triumph TR-3 b& Two years later he and Bob Tullius campaigned a unique (for Bob) black-painted Triumph b& The following year he raced a factory TR4 in the 12 Hours of Sebring, with Charlie Gates and Robert Cole, finishing second in the GT 11 class b& The variety of cars Ed has raced over the years includes a Holman-Moody Ford in a 12-hour sedan race at Marlboro, Md., a Saab Sedan Champ, and a G Modified Lola Mk 1 b& Competed in the first-ever Trans-Am race at Sebring in 1966 and finished fourth in his class with a Saab, co-driven by Sam Perry b& Also once drove one of the rare Corvette Grand Sport cars b& Winner of SCCA Regional and local club championships in a Triumph Spitfire from 1989 to 2000 b&. Currently drives a Mazda RX-7 and instructs in SCCA Driversb Schools." From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 15 08:33:22 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <20071015.072624.2468.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <395027.21742.qm@web57611.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Stop it, please stop. All this talk about driving to the track just may reverse a twenty year trend of bigger trailers and tow vehicles. If this were to happen do you know what would happen to the economy. Not to mention the day dreams that would affect the actions of young children. wink wink nudge nudge William G Rosenbach wrote: Driving your racecar to the track gives you a different mind set at the event, you can break your ride home. Trailering gives more peace of mind, knowing if you break it, you can still get home. I generally drove my car to vintage races. Once in a snow storm with no heat or wipers. Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has a member who last year celebrated his 100th RMVR event as a driver. Bill Miller drives his almost original, stock, as delivered, Shelby GT-350 H to & from events. Packs everything he needs for the weekend in it, including Gerry Cans of fuel. This summer, he drove it from Denver to Miller MSP in Utah. He ONLY runs it on race fuel, so no just stopping at the Mini-Mart. That 100 events does NOT include the about half again that many other events & track days he & his steed have participated in. I believe he has been towed home twice, in all that time. Chek Beuf, an original owner of an original 427 Cobra, used to drive it, on race slicks, to the track. We had several appearances by a TR-3 which pulled a trailer with its race tyres & support materials. Original owner of an original Porsche 912 (looking like it just came off the showroom floor), has been driving to & from the track for years now. My car broke in Steamboat one year, Clive Averill loaded my car on his trailer and I drove his GT-6 back to Denver (you cannot believe how good that 2 litre six sounds at full chat, with no muffler, in the Johnson tunnel!). RMVR has an Historic Group, that encourages entries that are more what the factory produced, not what can be built from the catalogs. We have the Danny Colins Cup award, for that group. Points are awarded for driving To & From the track. If the point of the exercise is to recreate, reenact, racing from earlier years, we would drive to & from the track, time with analog stop watches. Like that's going to happen. Bill 70 GT-6+ On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 "Marx Christian tr4-racing" writes: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing > car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 15 09:09:11 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 08:09:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I seem to keep losing answers. I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 rpm. I am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have done to increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done to make shifting in and out quicker? Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone have good links for OD repair/enhancement? Thanks -- Chuck Arnold From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Oct 15 12:55:37 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:55:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure References: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004501c80f5c$f9e4d2f0$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Chuck, I feel the stock J-type od unit is good as is. I used mine for several years with out any problem. I had a problem with it this year and found the problem wasn't the OD, but a tight bearing in the transmission. This caused the oil to heat up and thin causing the OD to not engage after a few laps. The following session it would work fine for several laps and quit again. Very frustrating and hard to diagnosis. I then put on a Volvo unit that I only clean the magnet and screen, and it worked fine. I had used a A-type transmission and OD borrowed from another racer and I didn't notice much difference except the A shifts up quicker and the J shifts down quicker. I read in an article regarding the J-type unit in a site for Volvos(maybe turbobricks.com) that you can change the relief valve spring to give a high pressure. I put a gauge on mine(J-type) and saw 450psi. I also use Redline 75w90ns oil in mine. I'm not sure how much you're looking for, but this seemed adequate. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Friends" ; "Triumph" <6pack at autox.team.net> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 8:09 AM Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure > Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I seem > to keep losing answers. > > I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 rpm. I > am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have done to > increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done to make > shifting in and out quicker? > > Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone have > good links for OD repair/enhancement? > > Thanks > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From don at carterdesignassociates.com Mon Oct 15 13:31:20 2007 From: don at carterdesignassociates.com (Don Carter) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:31:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Previous brake problem In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c80f61$f7254b80$57e8a8c0@DWC> A month or so ago I had requested ideas for possible causes for left front wheel being the only front brakes I had on my TR6. Several of you told me it couldn't possibly be the PDWA switch, which I thought might be the culprit since I believed it could restrict the fluid from flowing to that wheel. Obviously wrong when looking at the fluid path through the PDWA block to the front brakes. All of you were right-on with that advice!!! I turned my attention to the only other thing I believed could be wrong....the recently installed right caliper itself. When on the rack, both front brakes stopped the hand spin of each tire and wheel. Even though all parts were new in the entire system, from the MC to the braided ss brake hoses to the calipers and pads, the only parts that were remanufactured by the parts supplier were the calipers. I let my wife down from the lift, and bought another set of calipers. Now under hard braking, both wheels bring you down together. Just thought you guys would like to know that you certainly helped to solve another of my simple mysteries. Parts, whether new or remanufactured, once again has proved to me that they can be faulty. It must not take much to restrict the flow of brake fluid. Thanks again for your help. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com don at carterdesignassociates.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 15 13:42:18 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:42:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] FoT Triumphs at VARA and Laughlin Message-ID: FoT, What a pleasure to see the FOT at Las Vegas last weekend. FOT Triumphs are pristinely prepared and run flawlessly....no Mordy or Paul, however. Thanks for the T-Shirt, Chuck Gee! I'd like to see some of the shirt content on the 2008 Watkins Glen Shirt, if Scott Janzen & Ted Schumacher approve. The Coors in Steve Smith's Refrigerator was good, too. Kas & Peg were there for two days. Kas was looking officious with communications head set and a pair of watches. Good weather, with an aluminum overcast of USAF fighters from Nellis. Joe (A) PS: Joe Curry was over at Laughlin, NV with TWO Spitfires on steroids in search of FTD. The Triumph guys were great to see, but there sure were a lot of Gray Hairs making noises with those wierd machines. Uncle Jack couldnt figure out how to work them, so his fortune is still intact. He doesnt make a very good Gray Hair...at least not yet. From chris at tr4-racing.de Mon Oct 15 13:46:09 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:46:09 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car References: <395027.21742.qm@web57611.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004701c80f64$0ee47aa0$6402a8c0@HOME> My car before its way back home.... http://www.tr4-racing.de/pic/2005/zolder/zolder4_ex.JPG ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Husmann To: William G Rosenbach ; chris at tr4-racing.de Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Stop it, please stop. All this talk about driving to the track just may reverse a twenty year trend of bigger trailers and tow vehicles. If this were to happen do you know what would happen to the economy. Not to mention the day dreams that would affect the actions of young children. wink wink nudge nudge William G Rosenbach wrote: Driving your racecar to the track gives you a different mind set at the event, you can break your ride home. Trailering gives more peace of mind, knowing if you break it, you can still get home. I generally drove my car to vintage races. Once in a snow storm with no heat or wipers. Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has a member who last year celebrated his 100th RMVR event as a driver. Bill Miller drives his almost original, stock, as delivered, Shelby GT-350 H to & from events. Packs everything he needs for the weekend in it, including Gerry Cans of fuel. This summer, he drove it from Denver to Miller MSP in Utah. He ONLY runs it on race fuel, so no just stopping at the Mini-Mart. That 100 events does NOT include the about half again that many other events & track days he & his steed have participated in. I believe he has been towed home twice, in all that time. Chek Beuf, an original owner of an original 427 Cobra, used to drive it, on race slicks, to the track. We had several appearances by a TR-3 which pulled a trailer with its race tyres & support materials. Original owner of an original Porsche 912 (looking like it just came off the showroom floor), has been driving to & from the track for years now. My car broke in Steamboat one year, Clive Averill loaded my car on his trailer and I drove his GT-6 back to Denver (you cannot believe how good that 2 litre six sounds at full chat, with no muffler, in the Johnson tunnel!). RMVR has an Historic Group, that encourages entries that are more what the factory produced, not what can be built from the catalogs. We have the Danny Colins Cup award, for that group. Points are awarded for driving To & From the track. If the point of the exercise is to recreate, reenact, racing from earlier years, we would drive to & from the track, time with analog stop watches. Like that's going to happen. Bill 70 GT-6+ On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 "Marx Christian tr4-racing" writes: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing > car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From chris at tr4-racing.de Mon Oct 15 14:09:44 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:09:44 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car References: <737379.5356.qm@web57612.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002501c80f67$550d4400$6402a8c0@HOME> I was the last car leaving the trackside. Converting the car back needs some time. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Husmann To: Marx Christian tr4-racing Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Were you the only one staying in the high rent area? You might want to consider a flamingo or two to dress up the area. I don't have an issue with trailers until they obscure the scenery which is becoming quite common around here. Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: My car before its way back home.... http://www.tr4-racing.de/pic/2005/zolder/zolder4_ex.JPG ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Husmann To: William G Rosenbach ; chris at tr4-racing.de Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Stop it, please stop. All this talk about driving to the track just may reverse a twenty year trend of bigger trailers and tow vehicles. If this were to happen do you know what would happen to the economy. Not to mention the day dreams that would affect the actions of young children. wink wink nudge nudge ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. From S.Janzen at comcast.net Mon Oct 15 14:42:59 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:42:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FoT Triumphs at VARA and Laughlin References: Message-ID: <008e01c80f6b$f99ea460$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Chuck, please send along the tee shirt design if you can so we can take a look. Thanks! Scott Janzen GT6 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: [Fot] FoT Triumphs at VARA and Laughlin > FoT, > > What a pleasure to see the FOT at Las Vegas last weekend. FOT Triumphs > are > pristinely prepared and run flawlessly....no Mordy or Paul, however. > > Thanks for the T-Shirt, Chuck Gee! I'd like to see some of the shirt > content on the 2008 Watkins Glen Shirt, if Scott Janzen & Ted Schumacher > approve. > > The Coors in Steve Smith's Refrigerator was good, too. > > Kas & Peg were there for two days. Kas was looking officious with > communications head set and a pair of watches. > > Good weather, with an aluminum overcast of USAF fighters from Nellis. > > Joe (A) > > PS: Joe Curry was over at Laughlin, NV with TWO Spitfires on steroids in > search of FTD. The Triumph guys were great to see, but there sure were a > lot of > Gray Hairs making noises with those wierd machines. Uncle Jack couldnt > figure > out how to work them, so his fortune is still intact. He doesnt make a > very good > Gray Hair...at least not yet. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Mon Oct 15 14:43:58 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:43:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car References: <200710150229.l9F2TK7b003835@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <00c901c80f6c$1cbfde00$0a10c548@RW> In 1963 we drove the 3 TR-4 cars entered in the 12 hour on the street and roads to the track from Miami. It was VERY cool. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Kantarjiev" To: Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car > It was certainly de rigeur "back in the day" - no transporters for > the factory teams, especially the sports car drivers. > > My work desk has a print of this: > > http://www.klemcoll.com/image/57C1B-9A.aspx?page= > > The caption that Klementaski put on it was "at 180 mph on the way > to Brescia for the Mille Miglia, the wind almost tore my arm > out of its socket while taking this photo". > > Hard to fathom, actually. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From henry at henryfrye.com Mon Oct 15 15:24:35 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:24:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Race Report VSCDA @ Mid-Ohio 1 of 2 Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FB18@server.Triumph.local> Another fantastic race weekend with VSCDA at Mid-Ohio. Weather was downright pleasant in the afternoons, but I will concede it was a little chilly early mornings. The Triumph gang was well represented, and I believe we put on a great show. Track conditions were slick on the first Friday morning sessions, because of a couple days rain prior to our event. I have never drove a track that looked dry that was so wet and slick. By the second morning session things were much better, and the rest of the weekend we had good grip despite coolish temps, but those engines were taking full advantage of that dense, dry air. We were making power! The Beady Eye gang made it look easy, they hung out calmly waiting for our turn to make noise. When that time came they ran well, and I don't know if either Bob Wismer or Bill Dentinger touched a tool other than a tire pressure gauge and the torque wench for the wheel lugs all weekend. Next door was a different story, Mark Wheatley and I seemed to be busy all weekend, first chasing an elusive flat spot on Mark's fresh engine, then trying to track down the source of a driveline vibration on my car. All great fun. Jeff Snook was the Triumph to beat, and nobody had anything for him once he hooked up with Vic Skirmants in his 356. I was hoping Vic would get Jeff to wear out his Hoosiers to the point I would get him, but my vibration woes ended that idea. Kudos to Jeff for beating Vic in the Qualifying race, Vic gave him a real run for his money. In the feature Vic got by Jeff early on, and Jeff's tires gave out on cue, so a repeat performance didn't happen. But any day a Triumph beats up on National Champ Skirmants is a very big deal! Way to go Jeff! Dennis DeLap was running his TR4, with his ever-present pit bunny/wife Joanie at his side. Dennis ran real well, flirted real close to that sub-two minute lap, you will get it next time, my friend. Over in Group 8, Dale Oesterle was the lone Triumph running with all the MGB's, not really sure how VSCDA gets that to work when all the TR3's and 4's run with the MGA's. But anyway, Dale is STILL looking for a FC Spitty block to rebuild his primary race engine. Come on folks, we know you Spit pilots are hoarding these 'getting scarcer by the day' cores. But this is an active racer in a really quick car that needs our help! Continued on Page 2 From henry at henryfrye.com Mon Oct 15 15:26:39 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:26:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Race Report VSCDA @ Mid-Ohio 1 of 2 Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FB19@server.Triumph.local> Continued from page 1 FOT'ers Mike Jackson, John Harkness and John Wiley all bought funny Volkswagen things, but I have to admit that FV crowd does have tons-o-fun. The Wine and Cheese parties, sponsored as always by the Beady Eye Racing Team, had some fantastic whining and really good cheese. Don Brick supplied a hunk of blue to die for. Very honorable mention to John Federici (sp?) for the smoked provolone that was really, really nice. Another highlight was spending time Bob Colazzi and the guy Bob brought to turn wrenches on his Lotus 7. I am terrible with names. Not only did we have great fun giving Colazzi a hard time for any number of things including coming in second overall in our group, but Bob's wrench is the guy that set the speed records at Bonneville in an Alfa. He built and drove it over 200 MPH on the salt. Had me drooling in my beer. I'll post a couple pictures I took of the car at Watkins Glen last year when I get a chance. This event was the MG racers focus event for the season. There were 60 MG powered cars on track, the highlight being a MGTC that hauled. It was driven in both Group 2 and 8, as it was shared by two drivers. It was actually tough to pass, it had amazing straight line speed and the driver in the Group 2 sessions was either incredibly brave or stupid. He is certainly very talented. He tossed that 60 year old car around like it was a real racecar. Very cool to watch. Unfortunately the gearbox gave up end of day Saturday, and it retired for the weekend. The schedule gave everybody 90 minutes of track time in 3 sessions on Friday, two sessions totaling 45 minutes Saturday morning, a 10 lap Sprint race Saturday afternoon, Sunday warm-ups and a 12 lap feature race on Sunday morning. Plus, the MG guys got 2 All-MG feature races, one for the fast and the other for the no-so-fast, AND a gimmick race that I swear the drivers meeting explaining how the thing worked had to take longer than the race would take to run. But, hey, they are MG guys. :-) Our chaos is not that organized!!! I'll be back next year, you folks who don't have this event on your schedule are really missing out on a great event. From henry at henryfrye.com Mon Oct 15 15:37:48 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:37:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Pictures posted... Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FB1A@server.Triumph.local> ... of the Alfa Land Speed record car I mentioned in my VSCDA - Mid-Ohio race report. http://autox.team.net/the-local/tiki-galleries.php From tlizzard at msn.com Mon Oct 15 15:43:31 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:43:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Race Report VSCDA @ Mid-Ohio 1 of 2 References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FB19@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: Thanks for the report Henry! Got filled in this morning By Jeff as well. Sounds like the TR boys were keeping the British end up. Carry on! Terry Stetler From chris at tr4-racing.de Tue Oct 16 02:53:03 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:53:03 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails Message-ID: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME> Since FOT has moved to an new account I don't get FOT mails anymore. I've phoned with my ISP about the problem. They said that some of the smaller US providers don't glue to the standards of internet transfer rules and so they are blocked when their header configuration don't pass the master control program. Even if I set the FOT mails on the white list won't have any change in blocking the FOT mails by my ISP. And on the other way round I can't send mails to some of the US friends (including Kas) .... where I am blocked as spam. >From this point of view we are facing future comunication troubles in global contacts. Cheers Chris From CoffeyJack at bfusa.com Tue Oct 16 07:32:05 2007 From: CoffeyJack at bfusa.com (Coffey, Jack) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:32:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5C33EB5352EE814AB72F655EA92399A20EF7FCB4@exc2-na-chq.bfusa.com> See attached pix.... Blanket bolts to engine plate with metal tabs (photo top) and straps attach blanket to trans case. Has a heat shield on exhaust side Current Deist shields (for Honda) are listed at $194 - $204. I cannot find what I paid for this but I'm sure it was more than $200 Want to make an offer??? Jack Coffey ph:615-937-1535 coffeyjack at bfusa.com -----Original Message----- From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer [mailto:lunkercars at earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 11:06 AM To: Coffey, Jack; FOT Cc: Chuck Arnold Subject: Re: [Fot] Scatershield source? Sure - Please send info just in case Henry does have a 1000' minimum... Honestly, I would be interested in seeing a picture of one. Greg On Oct 10, 2007, at 9:50 AM, Coffey, Jack wrote: > Chuck...Greg....I have a Deist blanket type scattershield...never > used. > If interested, I can send pix & look up what I paid for it > See attached e-mail for further info on attachment & development by > Mordy Dunst & John Frymark > > Jack Coffey > ph:615-937-1535 > coffeyjack at bfusa.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Chuck Arnold > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 10:30 AM > To: Greg Lunker Hilyer > Cc: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? > > On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one > for a > TR5/6 > > On 10/9/07, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: >> >> Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans >> anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett >> last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have >> the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at >> the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> triosan at gmail.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > coffeyjack at bfusa.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Deist_0001.JPG] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Deist_0002.JPG] From chasgee at aol.com Tue Oct 16 08:41:12 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:41:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <8C9DE194C06264D-C10-21D2@webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C9DE19BBCDE149-C10-221A@webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com> Greg, Didn't see your post earlier regarding the VARA rules.? The VARA rules you are quoting are for what we call "group 1" cars, for competitors who wish to compete with nearly stock automobiles.? We have a few of those in the organization, but most prefer to set their cars up to the regular rule book.? Please look more closely at the rulebook and you will see what I mean. I disagree with your overall comments regarding your ability to be competitive.? Kreger built his TR6 for a reason, and can run it where he is from (Seattle area).? My car is built to VARA rules because that is where I'm from.? Funny thing is, there is really nothing fancy about mine, just changes to make it more reliable so that I can increase my seat time.? 12.5:1 compression, 0.055 over bore,?steel rods, massaged stock crankshaft (not stroked - not allowed by our rules)? 30 year old camshaft design (Kastner A-10) and roller rockers.? I do have an aluminum flywheel (built by Lee Mueller) and upraded stock clutch.? All steel body except for trunk lid and hood, upraded springs and shocks, welded diff, and fancy transmission (rules state that you must use the stock case and have the same number of forward gears, so I took a page from the Sprites and built a dog box using Hewland pieces and the Spitfire case.? I think Taylor sells these now).? Obviously, I also run Webers, but Kas thinks it would perform better with twin SUs.? Maybe I'll try that sometime.? My sucess has been from the ability to keep it together and maximize handling.? But the biggest improvement by far is from seat time.? Everyone keeps coming up and asking what I've done to the car to make it so fast.? I keep saying that I've just finally learned to drive it.? Also Greg, I distinctly remember that you were extremely competitive at Miller and a real thorn in my side.? Please don't take that as a negative comment, because I really enjoyed racing and hanging out with you.? I think the reason that was the case is because you've focussed on driving the car rather than maximizing your straightaway performance.? I strongly believe that you would be very competitive at any VARA race with the car as prepped for Miller.? I also stronlgy encourage you to refrain from further prep because, honestly, I don't want the hassle of dealing with you with a locked diff and good brakes! Chuck Gee Blacksmith Racing You wrote: >> Again, no disrespect aimed at >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason. >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules >> read: >> etc, etc >> ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From chris at tr4-racing.de Tue Oct 16 09:11:30 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:11:30 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails References: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME> <8cbd782d0710160802j437bd53fk8947dbe81c03d6d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00bd01c81006$d5059460$6402a8c0@HOME> Especialy the providers Comcast.net juno.com cox.net bellsouth.net and some others block my mails out Chris From chris at tr4-racing.de Tue Oct 16 09:17:40 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:17:40 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails References: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME> <001a01c81006$a62a0900$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <00c901c81007$b2886d80$6402a8c0@HOME> I can send to FOT, but not receive. Only the workaround from Tony Drews keeps me update what is happening here. Kas I've send you 3 mails over the last 2 days but all returned to me. Maybe after 24H I get through again but not sure this is. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails > You messages to me come in plain and clear Chris. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 1:53 AM > Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails > > > > Since FOT has moved to an new account I don't get FOT mails anymore. > > > > I've phoned with my ISP about the problem. > > > > They said that some of the smaller US providers don't glue to the > > standards of > > internet transfer rules and so they are blocked when their header > > configuration don't pass the master control program. Even if I set the FOT > > mails on the white list won't have any change in blocking the FOT mails by > > my > > ISP. > > > > And on the other way round I can't send mails to some of the US friends > > (including Kas) .... where I am blocked as spam. > > > >>From this point of view we are facing future comunication troubles in > >>global > > contacts. > > > > Cheers > > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > kaskas at cox.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Tue Oct 16 10:22:44 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:22:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails References: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME><8cbd782d0710160802j437bd53fk8947dbe81c03d6d1@mail.gmail.com> <00bd01c81006$d5059460$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <002f01c81010$c8782fa0$2d02a8c0@Belkin> I have COX and I think Kas does too and my FOT messages are not blocked, I am sure that Kas' aren't either. Joe C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails > Especialy the providers > > Comcast.net > juno.com > cox.net > bellsouth.net > > and some others block my mails out > > Chris > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Tue Oct 16 14:50:27 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:50:27 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Emailing: 2002_0207AA Message-ID: Photo from the 1965 Races at Lime Rock...Photo by Bill Perry...in the Lime Rock 1966 national races program..July 4th..Tr3 driver is Ken Sloan..Volvo driver is Art riley Racer Bud..spitfire #21 The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: 2002_0207AA Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 2002_0207AA.JPG] From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Oct 16 18:33:50 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:33:50 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails In-Reply-To: <002f01c81010$c8782fa0$2d02a8c0@Belkin> References: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME> <8cbd782d0710160802j437bd53fk8947dbe81c03d6d1@mail.gmail.com> <00bd01c81006$d5059460$6402a8c0@HOME> <002f01c81010$c8782fa0$2d02a8c0@Belkin> Message-ID: <20071017003424.0A2471879C8@autox.team.net> I end up blocked every once in a while. What happens is that someone else using your Internet Service Provider (ISP) is sending out unsolicited e-mails (spam). So, one of the "blacklist" agencies puts the outgoing address (IP address) of these messages on a list of spammers. The companies that subscribe to the blacklist agency then rejects your e-mails. In order to get this fixed, the ISP needs to terminate the spammers account and contact the blacklist agency to get their IP address(es) removed from the blocked list. I have had to do this before for a company that hosted their own e-mail account, and it's no fun to work with the blacklist agencies. In my case, the ISP that hosts my domain, website and e-mail is pretty good about killing the bad guys' account and getting me back in service. It usually takes a couple of days. This doesn't affect FOT e-mails getting to me, or my ability to send to FOT, but it DOES affect my ability to reply privately. In an effort to keep off the blacklist, my ISP limits me to 10 addresses on any outgoing mail. That's bitten me before too on a "reply to all". I have no good suggestions to the German ISP's blocking / rejection of e-mail from the FOT list. It would be nice of them to offer an explanation of what's wrong with the e-mail message headers and what they need to see in those headers in order to NOT block the messages. It's possible that Mark can tweak something to make that change happen. I suspect that an ISP based in Germany is less interested in contacting some agency in the USA that has put them on the "bad guys" list than my US-based ISP is. One possible solution is to get yet ANOTHER e-mail address from someone like google or yahoo. They are likely to keep things moving. Google e-mail can be retrieved by normal e-mail clients. I've read statistics that over 90% of the e-mail sent in the world is unsolicited "spam" e-mail (may be as much as 97%). The volume has roughly doubled over the last year. My personal account has received 199 of them so far today, and I'll probably get 50 more before midnight. There's no perfect solution on how to block these, so different ISP's use different strategies to fight this scourge. This is a HUGE problem and threatens the use of e-mail in general. I've missed key business correspondence because the ISP that hosts my office's e-mail has flagged inter-office communications and communications from vendors and clients as spam. Internet e-mail needs a redesign that solves this problem. - Tony At 11:22 AM 10/16/2007, you wrote: >I have COX and I think Kas does too and my FOT messages are not blocked, I >am sure that Kas' aren't either. > >Joe C. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 8:11 AM >Subject: Re: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails > > > > Especialy the providers > > > > Comcast.net > > juno.com > > cox.net > > bellsouth.net > > > > and some others block my mails out > > > > Chris From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 16 18:50:52 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:50:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails In-Reply-To: <20071017003424.0A2471879C8@autox.team.net> References: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME> <8cbd782d0710160802j437bd53fk8947dbe81c03d6d1@mail.gmail.com> <00bd01c81006$d5059460$6402a8c0@HOME> <002f01c81010$c8782fa0$2d02a8c0@Belkin> <20071017003424.0A2471879C8@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <37366754-2120-4FFA-9DFA-49BAA14B21AA@bnj.com> Using a google email account is a fairly good solution and it's free. You get more than a gigabyte of storage, which should be adequate, and Goggle has pretty effective spam blocking. They also run efficient outgoing email management and policing so their IPs never get blocked. You can retrieve your mail via any system that handles IMAP or POP3 accounts. I have a Gmail account and a .MAC account, but for general use I'm still using BNJ.com which runs on my company's own servers at a tier one hosting facility. We run the most sophisticated spam blockers we can buy, and use pros to manage the systems, and it's still a persistent and serious problem. There IS no such thing as security on the internet, and no current solution to email problems given the current architecture. The most likely answer is complete identifiability on the web--an architecture that eliminates anonymity. But that get the hackles of the internet community up quicker than any other topic I can image. Personally, I have never understood why people believe a totally anonymous system is a good thing. Privacy and anonymity may share some characteristics, but they are not the same thing. From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Oct 17 05:51:09 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 06:51:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> References: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> Chuck, Try Quantum Mechanics - John Esposito (203) 459-9612. He is a British transmission and O/D expert. He can rebuild your O/D to full race specs. He is reasonable, honest and a very helpful guy. To shift faster you will need to drill out the oil passages to increase the pressure and you should install upgraded clutch packs. There are several bearings that also need to be changed to handle the higher level of stress. I'm running about 600 lbs. of pressure in mine and it shifts very quickly! Allen On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I > seem > to keep losing answers. > > I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 > rpm. I > am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have > done to > increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done > to make > shifting in and out quicker? > > Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone > have > good links for OD repair/enhancement? > > Thanks > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > awashatko at wi.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From mlcooknj at msn.com Wed Oct 17 08:05:52 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:05:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA Message-ID: Done! Mike can you send it to the rest of fot? thanks Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: michael cook To: RACER BUD Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Emailing: 2002_0207AA I would have loved to see the photo but some kind electronic agency or whatever decided the attachment should be removed. I know Ken Sloan, I knew Art Riley and I started racing my own TR3 only 2 years later. Lots of memories. Mike Cook ----- Original Message ----- From: RACER BUD Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 6:42 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Emailing: 2002_0207AA Photo from the 1965 Races at Lime Rock...Photo by Bill Perry...in the Lime Rock 1966 national races program..July 4th..Tr3 driver is Ken Sloan..Volvo driver is Art riley Racer Bud..spitfire #21 The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: ----- Original Message ----- From: RACER BUD Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:58 PM To: michael cook Subject: Emailing: 2002_0207AA whoohoo! i think it worked! The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: 2002_0207AA Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 2002_0207AA.JPG] From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Oct 17 08:09:54 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:09:54 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Peter Bulkowski Message-ID: I would like to nominate Peter Bulkowski to FOT. Peter has been in racing for many years, having won 3 E Production championships in Canada by the time he was selected by Jaguar/Rover/Triumph in 1979 to run a TR8 in IMSA,Trans-Am and endurance series. His car is basically a Canadian Group 44 TR8, having been granted access in 1979 through JRT to the Tullius Group 44 shop, the body, frame, suspension and wheels are patterned after the Group 44 TR8. He raced throughout Canada and US from 1980 to 1984 and had a number of top 5 finishes. In 1984 Peter sold the car and got out of racing, however in 2000 a friend found his car which had been sitting for a number of years. Peter gave in to "the force" and bought the car back and completely rebuilt the car over the next three years. He has since raced the car at VARAC Group 70 events and at the Toronto Indy. This year at Mosport he had an engine let go at speed, damaging the right side of the car as it hit the Armco backwards. Luckily Peter was unhurt and now has the car almost fully repaired. He is determined to have it ready for the season next year and plans to race at Watkins Glen, hopefully with/against the Group 44 TR8. It will be quite the reunion. Please can I have a second for the nomination? Paul MacDonald [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From budscars at msn.com Wed Oct 17 08:10:58 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:10:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA Message-ID: Hello Gang..I'll try again..This photo is at Lime rock in 1965..photo by Bill Perry..It's in the 1966, july 4th national races program Tr3 driver is Ken Sloan..Volvo driver is Art Riley Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: RACER BUD To: michael cook Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: Emailing: 2002_0207AA The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: 2002_0207AA Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 2002_0207AA.JPG] From herald948 at aol.com Wed Oct 17 09:08:45 2007 From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:08:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9DEE6BF5C8AAC-A00-3C5A@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: RACER BUD Hello Gang..I'll try again..This photo is at Lime rock in 1965..photo by Bill Perry..It's in the 1966, july 4th national races program Tr3 driver is Ken Sloan..Volvo driver is Art Riley ==AM== Bud, this list won't take attachments. Perhaps you could send it to Mordy Dunst or Henry Frye and/or whoever takes care of the FoT web site: ? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 17 09:16:02 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:16:02 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure In-Reply-To: <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> References: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710170816w6958584al11344eba430d912d@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Allen. I have now done quite a bit of research, but you have brought up a few new wrinkles. I do deal with John already. What bearings need "uprating"? I thought them to already be quite stout. The major issues seem to be with the clutch cone [get it redone with a surface that grips better] and pressure [increase it so shifts happen quicker and engagement remains at speed]. for pressure, there have been three responses: Remember, this is for a J-type, not an A-type]: 1. To hold pressure when not engaged [like coming off the line in a standing start], shorten the 4 inner springs of the operating pistons so it takes more pressure to release to overdrive. 2. For pressure: a: increase the spring rate of the pressure relief valve bu adding a washer or two under the spring b: drill out the "oil passage". Not sure which passage but assume it is the one from the solenoid to the dash pot -- would like a comment on this from anyone who knows c. Get the clutches on the cone relined Does anyone have anymore suggestions? On 10/17/07, Allen Washatko wrote: > > Chuck, > Try Quantum Mechanics - John Esposito (203) 459-9612. He is a British > transmission and O/D expert. He can rebuild your O/D to full race > specs. He is reasonable, honest and a very helpful guy. To shift faster > you will need to drill out the oil passages to increase the pressure > and you should install upgraded clutch packs. There are several > bearings that also need to be changed to handle the higher level of > stress. I'm running about 600 lbs. of pressure in mine and it shifts > very quickly! > > Allen > > On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > > > Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I > > seem > > to keep losing answers. > > > > I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 > > rpm. I > > am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have > > done to > > increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done > > to make > > shifting in and out quicker? > > > > Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone > > have > > good links for OD repair/enhancement? > > > > Thanks > > > > -- > > Chuck Arnold > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > awashatko at wi.rr.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > -- Chuck Arnold From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 17 09:42:11 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:42:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure In-Reply-To: <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> References: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710170842m51acf98el762cf6be0514024e@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Allen. I have now done quite a bit of research, but you have brought up a few new wrinkles. I do deal with John already. What bearings need "uprating"? I thought them to already be quite stout. The major issues seem to be with the clutch cone [get it redone with a surface that grips better] and pressure [increase it so shifts happen quicker and engagement remains at speed]. for pressure, there have been three responses: Remember, this is for a J-type, not an A-type]: 1. To hold pressure when not engaged [like coming off the line in a standing start], shorten the 4 inner springs of the operating pistons so it takes more pressure to release to overdrive. 2. For pressure: a: increase the spring rate of the pressure relief valve bu adding a washer or two under the spring b: drill out the "oil passage". Not sure which passage but assume it is the one from the solenoid to the dash pot -- would like a comment on this from anyone who knows c. Get the clutches on the cone relined Does anyone have anymore suggestions? On 10/17/07, Allen Washatko wrote: > > Chuck, > Try Quantum Mechanics - John Esposito (203) 459-9612. He is a British > transmission and O/D expert. He can rebuild your O/D to full race > specs. He is reasonable, honest and a very helpful guy. To shift faster > you will need to drill out the oil passages to increase the pressure > and you should install upgraded clutch packs. There are several > bearings that also need to be changed to handle the higher level of > stress. I'm running about 600 lbs. of pressure in mine and it shifts > very quickly! > > Allen > > On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > > > Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I > > seem > > to keep losing answers. > > > > I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 > > rpm. I > > am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have > > done to > > increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done > > to make > > shifting in and out quicker? > > > > Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone > > have > > good links for OD repair/enhancement? > > > > Thanks > > > > -- > > Chuck Arnold > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > awashatko at wi.rr.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > -- Chuck Arnold From koblinger at verizon.net Wed Oct 17 10:11:25 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:11:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA Message-ID: <30753818.5577081192637485898.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> You could also upload the photo to one of the free hosting sites like Imageshack. Then send everyone a link to the photo, like this.... http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4292/tr31441ln8.jpg Cheers, Kurt O. >From: herald948 at aol.com >Date: 2007/10/17 Wed AM 10:08:45 CDT >To: budscars at msn.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA >-----Original Message----- >From: RACER BUD > >Hello Gang..I'll try again..This photo is at Lime rock in 1965..photo >by Bill >Perry..It's in the 1966, july 4th national races program Tr3 driver >is Ken >Sloan..Volvo driver is Art Riley > > >==AM== >Bud, this list won't take attachments. Perhaps you could send it to >Mordy Dunst or Henry Frye and/or whoever takes care of the FoT web >site: ? > >--Andy Mace > >*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? >*Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, >Triumph Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > >Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph >Herald Database at its new URL: >________________________________________________________________________ >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - >http://mail.aol.com >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Wed Oct 17 10:46:09 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:46:09 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47163C51.9040406@bradakis.com> The Team.Net lists don't allow attachments, photos, virus programs, etc. in messages. Put the photo someplace like the Image Galleries at http://www.team.net/the-local mjb. From budscars at msn.com Wed Oct 17 11:10:03 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (CHARLES DELAUER) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 17:10:03 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA In-Reply-To: <8C9DEE6BF5C8AAC-A00-3C5A@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: hi gang...I'm not at home now. so I can't send it..I did send it to Mike Cook and to Kevin Lynch..maybe they can send it to some of you Racer bud >From: herald948 at aol.com >To: budscars at msn.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA >Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:08:45 -0400 > >-----Original Message----- >From: RACER BUD > >Hello Gang..I'll try again..This photo is at Lime rock in 1965..photo by >Bill >Perry..It's in the 1966, july 4th national races program Tr3 driver is >Ken >Sloan..Volvo driver is Art Riley > > >==AM== >Bud, this list won't take attachments. Perhaps you could send it to Mordy >Dunst or Henry Frye and/or whoever takes care of the FoT web site: >? > >--Andy Mace > >*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? >*Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph >Herald engine with wings. >-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > >Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph >Herald Database at its new URL: >________________________________________________________________________ >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - >http://mail.aol.com From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Wed Oct 17 11:28:14 2007 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:28:14 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Emailing: 2002_0207AA References: <47163C51.9040406@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <004001c810e3$1a2a2790$08c85246@Elliott> When I had some photos of Bill Ames and his Ambro from 1996, I sent them to Mordy and he put them in the hisorical section on the FOT site for anyone to see. That's where these should go. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Bradakis" To: "fot" Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA > The Team.Net lists don't allow attachments, photos, virus programs, > etc. in messages. Put the photo someplace like the Image Galleries > at http://www.team.net/the-local > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > 58tr3a at videotron.ca > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cartravel at pobox.com Wed Oct 17 12:10:22 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:10:22 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure In-Reply-To: <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> References: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> Message-ID: <4716500E.5090705@pobox.com> I'm not as familiar with the J-types as I am with the A-type, but doesn't the J-type pump only when you engage the overdrive? The shift delay is determined by how long it takes to pump up. If so, increasing the pressure will not make it shift faster. On the other hand, the A-type has an accumulator which holds a volume of pressurized oil, so it will shift faster with greater pressure. I've always thought the A-type with the large accumulator was the best choice for racing. Larry Allen Washatko wrote: > Chuck, > Try Quantum Mechanics - John Esposito (203) 459-9612. He is a British > transmission and O/D expert. He can rebuild your O/D to full race > specs. He is reasonable, honest and a very helpful guy. To shift faster > you will need to drill out the oil passages to increase the pressure > and you should install upgraded clutch packs. There are several > bearings that also need to be changed to handle the higher level of > stress. I'm running about 600 lbs. of pressure in mine and it shifts > very quickly! > > Allen > > On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > > >> Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I >> seem >> to keep losing answers. >> >> I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 >> rpm. I >> am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have >> done to >> increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done >> to make >> shifting in and out quicker? >> >> Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone >> have >> good links for OD repair/enhancement? >> >> Thanks >> >> -- >> Chuck Arnold >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> awashatko at wi.rr.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > cartravel at pobox.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Wed Oct 17 12:28:43 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 14:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination Peter Bulkowski In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Paul MacDonald wrote: > I would like to nominate Peter Bulkowski to FOT. SECOND I have to ponder the thought of having to rescue any of my former Triumphs... that would be quite a feat indeed! Welcome, Peter. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bownes at seiri.com Mon Oct 15 14:04:06 2007 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:04:06 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <004701c80f64$0ee47aa0$6402a8c0@HOME> References: <395027.21742.qm@web57611.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <004701c80f64$0ee47aa0$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: Oscar Kovaleski used to drive his McLaren to/from Watkins Glen. It was apparently quite teh sight flying down Rt 17.... On 10/15/07, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > > My car before its way back home.... > > http://www.tr4-racing.de/pic/2005/zolder/zolder4_ex.JPG > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ernest Husmann > To: William G Rosenbach ; chris at tr4-racing.de > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 4:33 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car > > > Stop it, please stop. All this talk about driving to the track just may > reverse a twenty year trend of bigger trailers and tow vehicles. If this > were > to happen do you know what would happen to the economy. Not to mention > the > day dreams that would affect the actions of young children. > wink wink nudge nudge > > William G Rosenbach wrote: > Driving your racecar to the track gives you a different mind set at > the > event, you can break your ride home. Trailering gives more peace of > mind, > knowing if you break it, you can still get home. I generally drove my > car > to vintage races. Once in a snow storm with no heat or wipers. > > Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has a member who last year celebrated > his > 100th RMVR event as a driver. Bill Miller drives his almost original, > stock, as delivered, Shelby GT-350 H to & from events. Packs > everything > he needs for the weekend in it, including Gerry Cans of fuel. This > summer, he drove it from Denver to Miller MSP in Utah. He ONLY runs it > on > race fuel, so no just stopping at the Mini-Mart. That 100 events does > NOT > include the about half again that many other events & track days he & > his > steed have participated in. I believe he has been towed home twice, in > all that time. > > Chek Beuf, an original owner of an original 427 Cobra, used to drive > it, > on race slicks, to the track. > We had several appearances by a TR-3 which pulled a trailer with its > race > tyres & support materials. > Original owner of an original Porsche 912 (looking like it just came > off > the showroom floor), has been driving to & from the track for years > now. > My car broke in Steamboat one year, Clive Averill loaded my car on his > trailer and I drove his GT-6 back to Denver (you cannot believe how > good > that 2 litre six sounds at full chat, with no muffler, in the Johnson > tunnel!). > > RMVR has an Historic Group, that encourages entries that are more what > the factory produced, not what can be built from the catalogs. We have > the Danny Colins Cup award, for that group. Points are awarded for > driving To & From the track. > > If the point of the exercise is to recreate, reenact, racing from > earlier > years, we would drive to & from the track, time with analog stop > watches. > Like that's going to happen. > > Bill > 70 GT-6+ > > On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 "Marx Christian tr4-racing" > writes: > > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive > racing > > car on > > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > > bucks more to > > spend... > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > ehusmann53 at yahoo.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > bownes at web9.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chasgee at aol.com Tue Oct 16 08:09:33 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:09:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <20071014180636.7C2F3187B01@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8C9DE154FF9E675-C10-1F81@webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com> Greg, Didn't see your post earlier regarding the VARA rules.? The VARA rules you are quoting are for what we call "group 1" cars, for competitors who wish to compete with nearly stock automobiles.? We have a few of those in the organization, but most prefer to set their cars up to the regular rule book.? Please look more closely at the rulebook and you will see what I mean. I disagree with your overall comments regarding your ability to be competitive.? Kreger built his TR6 for a reason, and can run it where he is from (Seattle area).? My car is built to VARA rules because that is where I'm from.? Funny thing is, there is really nothing fancy about mine, just changes to make it more reliable so that I can increase my seat time.? 12.5:1 compression, 0.055 over bore,?steel rods, massaged stock crankshaft (not stroked - not allowed by our rules)? 30 year old camshaft design (Kastner A-10) and roller rockers.? I do have an aluminum flywheel (built by Lee Mueller) and upraded stock clutch.? All steel body except for trunk lid and hood, upraded springs and shocks, welded diff, and fancy transmission (rules state that you must use the stock case and have the same number of forward gears, so I took a page from the Sprites and built a dog box using Hewland pieces and the Spitfire case.? I think Taylor sells these now).? Obviously, I also run Webers, but Kas thinks it would perform better with twin SUs.? Maybe I'll try that sometime.? My sucess has been from the ability to keep it together and maximize handling.? But the biggest improvement by far is from seat time.? Everyone keeps coming up and asking what I've done to the car to make it so fast.? I keep saying that I've just finally learned to drive it.? Also Greg, I distinctly remember that you were extremely competitive at Miller and a real thorn in my side.? Please don't take that as a negative comment, because I really enjoyed racing and hanging out with you.? I think the reason that was the case is because you've focussed on driving the car rather than maximizing your straightaway performance.? I strongly believe that you would be very competitive at any VARA race with the car as prepped for Miller.? I also stronlgy encourage you to refrain from further prep because, honestly, I don't want the hassle of dealing with you with a locked diff and good brakes! Chuck Gee Blacksmith Racing -----Original Message----- From: Keith Files To: 'Greg "Lunker" Hilyer' ; 'FOT' Sent: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 11:05 am Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Hi Greg, Happy to try to address the question of what it did leave the factory with in terms of body, chassis and transmission. The inner body tub has to be original in all respects i.e. all inner panels and bulkheads are standard (although there are some who replace the mild steel with aluminium but I do not) with a number of outer panels in glass fibre (light weight but not by much as the overall reduction in weight is minor 930 kgs as opposed to a street car of 1024 kgs.). No changes to the original silhouette are allowed. The use of glass fibre is preferred as the panels are easy and cheap to replace. The chassis is standard Triumph with all original suspension pick-up points (The rear trailing arms are standard Triumph as is all of the front suspension bar the springs and shocks). The engine block and head must be original and must be in their original location. The gearbox must use a Triumph casing; we use the Stag one as it is stronger but not lighter. The differential case is standard Triumph. Hope this helps. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg "Lunker" Hilyer Sent: 09 October 2007 05:13 To: FOT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Begin forwarded message: > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM MDT > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > >> >> FoTers, >> I think Henry Morrison will be as surprised as I, to find myself >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this discussion >> several times before. However... Personally, I encourage expanded >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for bigger grids. >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a earlier >> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR. >> Regarding your car Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high >> level of preparation, wouldn't it be more concise to list what it >> DID leave the factory with? To me " All original steel panels >> except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door, all 4 wings and >> hardtop " is like saying " all original car except for body, >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know what GRP is >> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the >> rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of >> the art [which your car sounds to be] - not >> "an act or scheme to out whit or deceive" {Webster} >> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no disrespect aimed at >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason. >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules >> read: >> >> Engine: >> >> Same type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit). >> Period correct roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. >> Compression Ratio is limited to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be >> documented as higher from the factory as delivered for street >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and period correct. No aluminum >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless originally sold as >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free but must not conflict >> with stock type appearance of body. >> >> >> Carburetion: >> Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi >> count). No Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped. >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------- >> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in compliance with the >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host club] is even more strict >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 was [as graciously >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an inch of it's >> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group >> [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I >> doubt if Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - >> not really fair to the others. >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how my Vintage prepped >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans to attend >> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain! >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca Wed Oct 17 15:54:03 2007 From: Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca (Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 17:54:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Peter Bulkowski Message-ID: Robert and Paul Thank you for the nomination and second. Hope to see you at the Glen or Mosport next year. Peter -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Lang [lang at isis.mit.edu] Sent: 10/17/2007 02:28 PM To: Paul MacDonald Cc: Fot ;Bulkowskip Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination Peter Bulkowski On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Paul MacDonald wrote: > I would like to nominate Peter Bulkowski to FOT. SECOND I have to ponder the thought of having to rescue any of my former Triumphs... that would be quite a feat indeed! Welcome, Peter. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Roadandtrack at bigpond.com Thu Oct 18 20:07:49 2007 From: Roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:07:49 +1000 Subject: [Fot] overdrive pressures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c811f4$d9b17fc0$0301010a@purplebox> Road & Track 66 Pine Mountain Road North Ipswich, Qld 4305 Ph 07 3201 8866 Fax 07 3201 7079 www.roadandtrack.net.au -----Original Message----- the response is governed by the internal dashpot valve springs and the "z" passage size. This is the tiny orifice going to the solenoid. You need to increase its size to about 3/32". You also need to reduce the clutch travel to about 0.30" by shimming it forward and making the same adjustment to the back bearing. This is very difficult with new clutches as they are commonly out of round. We re-machine them to make them perfect so we can handle such small clearances. The other upgrade is to fit a hardened steel insert where the sun gear squashes into the alloy clutch housing. Provided its not falling apart, the stock clutch lining is perfectly OK--it is used behind big V8's so no TR will ever worry it. There are several variations in the J type internally, so giving much more specific advice will require more info Terry O'Beirne From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Fri Oct 19 06:20:35 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:20:35 -0500 Subject: [Fot] That Loooong Race Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747C6571@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Any other FOTs intending to be at That Loooong Race this weekend at Blackhawk Farms? Scott From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 19 06:44:57 2007 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 05:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" Message-ID: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> AMICI Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" Thanks Dennis DeLap From budscars at msn.com Fri Oct 19 08:32:43 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:32:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Parts spitfire Message-ID: > thanks to SCOTT PILEDRIVER BROWN for this contact amashford at shaw.ca > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Brown" To: "RACER BUD" < > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:42 AM > Subject: Parts > > >> For Sale: Triumph Spitfire Mk1 and Mk2 parts >> >> I recently acquired a huge batch of parts for the above cars, almost >> enough >> to build four cars !! It includes 3 body tubs (one which has been walnut >> shell blasted and primer sealed) 5 bonnets, 5 boot lids, 8 doors, 4 >> engines >> and transmissions, and two rolling frames, and a big pile of everything >> else >> !! Even a fibreglass hardtop, without the back window for the early cars. >> Call me weekends at 360-599-2404 or weekdays at 604-870-9646 or email me >> with your needs amashford at shaw.ca I'll deal the sheet metal reasonable as >> I >> have no need for it, thank you. >> >> Andy From cak at dimebank.com Fri Oct 19 12:04:23 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:04:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] overdrive pressures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4718F1A7.4010706@dimebank.com> ---Original Message----- > the response is governed by the internal dashpot valve springs and the > "z" passage size. This is the tiny orifice going to the solenoid. You > need to increase its size to about 3/32". You also need to reduce the > clutch travel to about 0.30" by shimming it forward and making the same > adjustment to the back bearing. This is very difficult with new clutches > as they are commonly out of round. We re-machine them to make them > perfect so we can handle such small clearances. The other upgrade is to > fit a hardened steel insert where the sun gear squashes into the alloy > clutch housing. Provided its not falling apart, the stock clutch lining > is perfectly OK--it is used behind big V8's so no TR will ever worry it. > > There are several variations in the J type internally, so giving much > more specific advice will require more info > Terry O'Beirne > > > ------------------------------ Does anyone have similar modifications for a D type? I find that the one in my GT6+ tends to slip when it gets warm, no matter what sort or how heavy an oil I put into it... From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Tue Oct 9 16:36:10 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoffrey Byrne) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:36:10 +1000 Subject: [Fot] The Kastner Cup References: <004601c80a90$31883e80$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <006201c80ac4$cb7c5510$41e3efdc@co3017577a> Kas You are always welcome to come to Australia for our annual All Triumph race and "go international" we can even arrange the Down Under Kastner Cup ( would it neeed to be upside down??) Eligibility of our cars for Historic classification is managed nationally controlled by the issue of a vehicle Log Book . Without an Historic Vehicle log book you dont get to race at an historic meeting. Mods are very limited all panels and mechicals must be OEM. We get mixed fields of 40-50 cars with very close racing right through the field. The All Triumph race is run at a non historic meeting to allow the modified cars to run with our historic vehicles . Regards Geoff Byrne TR6 Racer Down Under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:19 AM Subject: [Fot] The Kastner Cup > There is no mystery on the cup presentation. In the very beginning I wanted to > offer this cup to participants that had Triumph cars that were excellent > examples of presentation & preparation, the driver an advocate and involved > person in Vintage type racing and results from the Triumph competition on the > track. The values being approximately 25%, 25% and 50%. > > There are two provisions: > > 1. No driver can win the cup in consecutive years. > 2. The cup is to be awarded once each year and moved around the country to > give opportunity to as many drivers as possible and a venue agreed > by the overall Triumph participants. In general it is East Coast, Central > Area and West Coast on a rotation basis. This has given us to date: > Mosport, Ontario Canada, Buttonwillow California, Atlanta Raceway, > Georgia, Hallet, Oklahoma, and the last, Miller Park, Utah. > > Too date race winners have been chosen three out of five events, DNF > occurrences in the race event and other entanglements during the race did take > some possible winners out of contention three times. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gkbyrne at optushome.com.au > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Fri Oct 19 19:28:46 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:28:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" In-Reply-To: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20071020013257.VGFV13814.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Isky website is showing no info available http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html Intake 40-80 Exhaust 80-40 Valve Lift .480 Valve Lash Hot .028 Duration 300 degrees At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >AMICI > > Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" > > Thanks > Dennis DeLap >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >dave at microworks.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Fri Oct 19 21:23:44 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:23:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" References: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20071020013257.VGFV13814.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: <00c501c812c8$9ec68a70$0a10c548@RW> Just as an observation, but .028" sounds like a lot. ---- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:28 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] ISKY "777" > Isky website is showing no info available > > http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 > > But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: > > http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html > > Intake 40-80 > Exhaust 80-40 > Valve Lift .480 > Valve Lash Hot .028 > Duration 300 degrees > > > At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >>AMICI >> >> Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" >> >> Thanks >> Dennis DeLap >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Sat Oct 20 07:18:03 2007 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" In-Reply-To: <00c501c812c8$9ec68a70$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <619946.21361.qm@web81706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks to all for their "Isky" input. I got this 777 cam from our friend Irv Korey - he had a bunch of extra race parts in his warehouse. Sounds like it is alot like the Kastner "F" cam - identical duration anyway. .........and Kas the .028 does seem extreme - alot of slop. Another question - I have been building my engines with compression ratios in the 10.7 to 1 range. I notice that the competition manual asks for a minimum of 11.7 to 1. How important is this to the function of the race cam? Dennis Kas Kastner wrote: Just as an observation, but .028" sounds like a lot. ---- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:28 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] ISKY "777" > Isky website is showing no info available > > http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 > > But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: > > http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html > > Intake 40-80 > Exhaust 80-40 > Valve Lift .480 > Valve Lash Hot .028 > Duration 300 degrees > > > At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >>AMICI >> >> Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" >> >> Thanks >> Dennis DeLap >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From S.Janzen at comcast.net Sat Oct 20 07:48:16 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 09:48:16 -0400 Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" References: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20071020013257.VGFV13814.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: <000a01c8131f$de6dc970$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Seems high to me too, but my Crane grind calls for .028 intake and .030 exh hot. I was running less but when I adjusted to this the valve train quieted down a lot . ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] ISKY "777" > Isky website is showing no info available > > http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 > > But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: > > http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html > > Intake 40-80 > Exhaust 80-40 > Valve Lift .480 > Valve Lash Hot .028 > Duration 300 degrees > > > At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >>AMICI >> >> Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" >> >> Thanks >> Dennis DeLap >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Sat Oct 20 08:54:55 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 09:54:55 -0500 Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" In-Reply-To: <619946.21361.qm@web81706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <619946.21361.qm@web81706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dennis, I ran my cam grinder's recommendation of .020 intake and .022 exhaust and ended up with hammered valve stems. I now run .015 intake and .016 exhaust with good results. CR is 11.8:1. Allen On Oct 20, 2007, at 8:18 AM, Dennis DeLap wrote: > Thanks to all for their "Isky" input. > > I got this 777 cam from our friend Irv Korey - he had a bunch of > extra race parts in his warehouse. Sounds like it is alot like the > Kastner "F" cam - identical duration anyway. > > .........and Kas the .028 does seem extreme - alot of slop. > > Another question - I have been building my engines with compression > ratios in the 10.7 to 1 range. I notice that the competition manual > asks for a minimum of 11.7 to 1. How important is this to the > function of the race cam? > > Dennis > > Kas Kastner wrote: > Just as an observation, but .028" sounds like a lot. > > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "David W. Riddle" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] ISKY "777" > > >> Isky website is showing no info available >> >> http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 >> >> But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: >> >> http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html >> >> Intake 40-80 >> Exhaust 80-40 >> Valve Lift .480 >> Valve Lash Hot .028 >> Duration 300 degrees >> >> >> At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >>> AMICI >>> >>> Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" >>> >>> Thanks >>> Dennis DeLap >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> dave at microworks.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > yellow-green at sbcglobal.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > awashatko at wi.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From Fubog1 at aol.com Sat Oct 20 09:31:42 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:31:42 EDT Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" Message-ID: The running clearance for any particular profile is a critical part of the overall design. It's based largely on accelerations (both ways) & if the clearance ramp isn't correct there will be conflicting forces in the valve train, & resultant wear/breakage. I advise following cam manufacturers specs. Assuming that weights, geometry, ratio, materials, etc are all to spec, this will give the best results. FWIW... Glen In a message dated 10/20/2007 10:56:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: Dennis, I ran my cam grinder's recommendation of .020 intake and .022 exhaust and ended up with hammered valve stems. I now run .015 intake and .016 exhaust with good results. CR is 11.8:1. Allen On Oct 20, 2007, at 8:18 AM, Dennis DeLap wrote: > Thanks to all for their "Isky" input. > > I got this 777 cam from our friend Irv Korey - he had a bunch of > extra race parts in his warehouse. Sounds like it is alot like the > Kastner "F" cam - identical duration anyway. > > .........and Kas the .028 does seem extreme - alot of slop. > > Another question - I have been building my engines with compression > ratios in the 10.7 to 1 range. I notice that the competition manual > asks for a minimum of 11.7 to 1. How important is this to the > function of the race cam? > > Dennis > > Kas Kastner wrote: > Just as an observation, but .028" sounds like a lot. > > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "David W. Riddle" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] ISKY "777" > > >> Isky website is showing no info available >> >> http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 >> >> But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: >> >> http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html >> >> Intake 40-80 >> Exhaust 80-40 >> Valve Lift .480 >> Valve Lash Hot .028 >> Duration 300 degrees >> >> >> At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >>> AMICI >>> >>> Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" >>> >>> Thanks >>> Dennis DeLap >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> dave at microworks.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > yellow-green at sbcglobal.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > awashatko at wi.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 fubog1 at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From hottr6 at hotmail.com Sat Oct 20 18:31:45 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:31:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] ISky 777 Message-ID: For more stuff on TR6 cams than you care to know, check out http://triumph.hottr6.com/tr6cams.html. Most cam manufacturers do not give out the all important lobe center which I have computed for each cam assuming symmetry. Shane Ingate, relaxin' after a nice drive in the NM mountains. _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Sat Oct 20 22:43:53 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 21:43:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure Message-ID: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on the front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended air pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. Jim Hearn Sacramento, CA Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 21 00:42:21 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:42:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure In-Reply-To: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> References: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <53BE8E86-7E17-4B77-870E-E1C8D9D54F2A@bnj.com> It would depend on how the car is sprung and how the suspension is set up, but it's fairly common for production based cars to work best with a little more rear tire pressure than front. Especially if you are running radial tires. If only because you can add a little camber in the front, but not so easy to do that in the back (not impossible, just not easy). On Oct 20, 2007, at 9:43 PM, jim hearn wrote: > It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little > higher on the > front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory > recommended air > pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for > "high > speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the > rear > than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the > TR6 with > race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. > > Jim Hearn > Sacramento, CA > Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef > which had a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Oct 21 08:50:21 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:50:21 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure References: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <000e01c813f1$b5e5c700$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> I'm still early in learning how best to set up my TR4A but I have found that 30 front and 31.5 rear works OK with Hoosier Speedsters on my car. I started our 30 all across and gradually upped the rears. Without the lower front pressures turn in was too light. I had the car weighed the last time out and I'm going to do some adjustments so my pressures may be meaningless to someone else. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:43 PM Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure > It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on > the > front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended > air > pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high > speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear > than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with > race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. > > Jim Hearn > Sacramento, CA > Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Sun Oct 21 11:34:07 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:34:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship Message-ID: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite unexpected World Championship for Kimi. Joe C. From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 21 12:24:32 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:24:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship In-Reply-To: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and champagne. On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite > unexpected > World Championship for Kimi. > > > > Joe C. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 15:12:19 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:12:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship In-Reply-To: References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and 3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his karting. He was running a KT100 Here is the Hamilton Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >champagne. > >On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > > > What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite > > unexpected > > World Championship for Kimi. > > > > > > > > Joe C. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > billb at bnj.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >dave at microworks.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr5racer at btinternet.com Sun Oct 21 15:50:06 2007 From: tr5racer at btinternet.com (JOSEPH HUGHES) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:50:06 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship Message-ID: <144981.47393.qm@web86615.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Great race but a bad result for us Brits especially as we lost the Rugby World Cup Final yesterday as well. In my opinion Lewis should have tied up the title in China when, had the team changed his tyres earlier, he would not have gone into the gravel entering the pitlane. I also do not understand why they the team opted for a 3 stop strategy in todays race as I believe that cost him a higher place finish. But then again I am biased as his grandfathers a friend of mine! Mike Hughes --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. From chris at tr4-racing.de Sun Oct 21 16:51:01 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 00:51:01 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure Message-ID: Jim, I run more pressure on the front tires because the rear tires heat more up than the front ones....I'm around 24 psi. Cheers Chris It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on the front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended air pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. Jim Hearn Sacramento, CA Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tony at tonydrews.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sun Oct 21 17:11:00 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:11:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <002d01c81437$a533eea0$0a10c548@RW> In my days of hard racing I found that a different pressure in each tire was required, depending on the track and which way it turned the most. My thought on this is do not be afraid to TRY something. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship > Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the > season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and > 3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. > > Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to > put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. > > For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at > Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his > karting. He was running a KT100 > > Here is the Hamilton Video > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g > > Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s > > At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >>champagne. >> >>On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: >> >> > What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite >> > unexpected >> > World Championship for Kimi. >> > >> > >> > >> > Joe C. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > http://www.team.net/donate.html >> > >> > billb at bnj.com >> > Fot mailing list >> > Fot at autox.team.net >> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tony at tonydrews.com Sun Oct 21 17:15:22 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:15:22 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure In-Reply-To: <000e01c813f1$b5e5c700$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> <000e01c813f1$b5e5c700$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <20071021231601.7556C1879D3@autox.team.net> I run about 10 psi lower with the speedsters, and have the rears a pound or two lower than the front - with my sideways car, they end up close at the end of the race. But, this is in a solid axle car with 0 rear camber. - Tony At 09:50 AM 10/21/2007, BOB KRAMER wrote: >I'm still early in learning how best to set up my TR4A but I have found that >30 front and 31.5 rear works OK with Hoosier Speedsters on my car. I started >our 30 all across and gradually upped the rears. Without the lower front >pressures turn in was too light. I had the car weighed the last time out and >I'm going to do some adjustments so my pressures may be meaningless to >someone else. > >Bob Kramer >rkramer3 at austin.rr.com >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jim hearn" >To: >Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:43 PM >Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure > > > > It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on > > the > > front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended > > air > > pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high > > speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear > > than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with > > race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Jim Hearn > > Sacramento, CA > > Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) > > > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > > a name of winmail.dat] > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >tony at tonydrews.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sun Oct 21 17:23:36 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:23:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> Apparently Hamilton's car went into neutral on corner four (for no known reason) and then it was a struggle to get it to work again. Kimi, YES!!!!!. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship > Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the > season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and > 3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. > > Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to > put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. > > For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at > Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his > karting. He was running a KT100 > > Here is the Hamilton Video > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g > > Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s > > At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >>champagne. >> >>On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: >> >> > What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite >> > unexpected >> > World Championship for Kimi. >> > >> > >> > >> > Joe C. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > http://www.team.net/donate.html >> > >> > billb at bnj.com >> > Fot mailing list >> > Fot at autox.team.net >> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 21 17:38:12 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:38:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship In-Reply-To: <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. I don't think it makes sense to say someone deserves a win--if they win, they deserve it. But Kimi certainly had a break coming. Nice to see him finally get one. On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > Apparently Hamilton's car went into neutral on corner four (for no > known > reason) and then it was a struggle to get it to work again. Kimi, > YES!!!!!. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David W. Riddle" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:12 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship > > >> Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the >> season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and >> 3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. >> >> Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to >> put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. >> >> For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at >> Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his >> karting. He was running a KT100 >> >> Here is the Hamilton Video >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g >> >> Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s >> >> At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>> Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >>> champagne. >>> >>> On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: >>> >>>> What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite >>>> unexpected >>>> World Championship for Kimi. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Joe C. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> billb at bnj.com >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot at autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> dave at microworks.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Sun Oct 21 17:51:52 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:51:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship In-Reply-To: <144981.47393.qm@web86615.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <144981.47393.qm@web86615.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c8143d$5acc05e0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> As the Speed Channel Talking heads proclaimed, "There is a good reason why a rookie has never won the F1 World Championship!" In this case it was a couple of rookie mistakes that cost Lewis the title. The first one as you describe was at China when Lewis should have been liking to finish in at least 5th place to lock up the title. Instead, he lost sight of the bigger picture and let his competitive juices overcome him and he was trying to finish first. The second was at today's race where he tried off the bat to get back around Alonzo and went off the track. I can't say, but it appears to me that excursion may have damaged his electronics which cost him a number of places a few laps later and ended up costing him any chance of finishing high enough to recover the championship lead. I am a Ferrari fan myself but I was secretly rooting for Lewis because I think like Tiger Woods is for golf he is good for F1 and has shown that he has the talent to be a champion. Hopefully, he will also soon have the maturity to complete the task. Cheers, Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of JOSEPH HUGHES Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:50 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship Great race but a bad result for us Brits especially as we lost the Rugby World Cup Final yesterday as well. In my opinion Lewis should have tied up the title in China when, had the team changed his tyres earlier, he would not have gone into the gravel entering the pitlane. I also do not understand why they the team opted for a 3 stop strategy in todays race as I believe that cost him a higher place finish. But then again I am biased as his grandfathers a friend of mine! Mike Hughes --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 17:52:50 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:52:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers standings where they are. At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, >and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. > >I don't think it makes sense to say someone deserves a win--if they >win, they deserve it. But Kimi certainly had a break coming. Nice to >see him finally get one. > >On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > >>Apparently Hamilton's car went into neutral on corner four (for no >>known >>reason) and then it was a struggle to get it to work again. Kimi, >>YES!!!!!. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "David W. Riddle" >>To: >>Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:12 PM >>Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship >> >> >>>Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the >>>season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and >>>3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. >>> >>>Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to >>>put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. >>> >>>For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at >>>Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his >>>karting. He was running a KT100 >>> >>>Here is the Hamilton Video >>> >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g >>> >>>Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 >>> >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s >>> >>>At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>>>Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >>>>champagne. >>>> >>>>On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: >>>> >>>>>What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite >>>>>unexpected >>>>>World Championship for Kimi. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Joe C. >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>>> >>>>>billb at bnj.com >>>>>Fot mailing list >>>>>Fot at autox.team.net >>>>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>>dave at microworks.net >>>>Fot mailing list >>>>Fot at autox.team.net >>>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>>_______________________________________________ >>>http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>>kaskas at cox.net >>>Fot mailing list >>>Fot at autox.team.net >>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>billb at bnj.com >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 21 18:04:41 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:04:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in > doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton > up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would > be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers > standings where they are. > > At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >> rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, >> and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. From spitlist at cox.net Sun Oct 21 18:14:56 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:14:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW><3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com><20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> Message-ID: <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> According to the F1 web site, "The BMW Sauber and Williams teams have escaped penalty after being investigated by Brazilian Grand Prix stewards over fuel irregularities on their cars at the end of Sunday's Interlagos race." So if this is indeed right, your hope has been confirmed! Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:05 PM To: David W. Riddle Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in > doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton > up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would > be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers > standings where they are. > > At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >> rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, >> and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 18:13:35 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:13:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20071022001754.WUFD15556.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> The issue seems to be that the sampled fuel at impound was below the allowed ambient temperature deviation. If they will tear the cars down and discover illegal fuel cooling devices then Williams and BMW should be penalized. Will/Should the penalty affect just the team or both the team and the drivers? I'm sure Kimi and Lewis are watching the developments with great interest. At 05:04 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to >active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards >seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. > > >On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > >>Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in >>doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton >>up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would >>be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers >>standings where they are. >> >>At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>>It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >>>rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, >>>and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 18:20:22 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:20:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> formula1.com (the official site) is not yet reporting this result and neither is f1i.com (kinda an "outlaw" site). SpeedTV's website is saying that they were not penalized. Would be interesting to know how the fuel in the tank was 14 degrees cooler than the ambient air? Kas any suggestions? I'm sure other racers would like to know how to cool their fuel on hot days. At 05:14 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >According to the F1 web site, "The BMW Sauber and Williams teams >have escaped penalty after being investigated by Brazilian Grand >Prix stewards over fuel irregularities on their cars at the end of >Sunday's Interlagos race." > >So if this is indeed right, your hope has been confirmed! > >Joe > > >-----Original Message----- >From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net >[mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:05 PM >To: David W. Riddle >Cc: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! > >I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to >active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards >seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. > > >On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > > > Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in > > doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton > > up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would > > be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers > > standings where they are. > > > > At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: > >> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was > >> rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, > >> and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >spitlist at cox.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From koblinger at verizon.net Sun Oct 21 19:04:46 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:04:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <471BF72E.6020607@verizon.net> Could be that the fuel was chilled in the refueling rig thinking that the fuel would warm up to within the allowable temp range in the car by the time it had to be measured. In the Trans-Am days Roger Penske's team used to put dry ice in the refueling rig to chill the fuel. Cold fuel is more dense, takes up less space so you essentially get more fuel per gallon. At one Trans-Am race the cars unexpectedly had to run an extra pace lap or two and the Penske boys were really worried the fuel tank in Donohue's Camaro would split from the cold fuel expanding faster than it could be used. Just one more "Unfair Advantage". Cheers, Kurt O. David W. Riddle wrote: >formula1.com (the official site) is not yet reporting this result and >neither is f1i.com (kinda an "outlaw" site). SpeedTV's website is >saying that they were not penalized. > >Would be interesting to know how the fuel in the tank was 14 degrees >cooler than the ambient air? > >Kas any suggestions? I'm sure other racers would like to know how to >cool their fuel on hot days. From budscars at msn.com Sun Oct 21 19:50:46 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:50:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW><3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com><20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com><000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <471BF72E.6020607@verizon.net> Message-ID: Boy Oh Boy..I remember That Stuff....Those Were The Days! Racer Bud in Sonoma, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kurt Oblinger" To: "David W. Riddle" ; "FOT" Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! > Could be that the fuel was chilled in the refueling rig thinking that > the fuel would warm up to within the allowable temp range in the car by > the time it had to be measured. In the Trans-Am days Roger Penske's team > used to put dry ice in the refueling rig to chill the fuel. Cold fuel is > more dense, takes up less space so you essentially get more fuel per > gallon. At one Trans-Am race the cars unexpectedly had to run an extra > pace lap or two and the Penske boys were really worried the fuel tank in > Donohue's Camaro would split from the cold fuel expanding faster than it > could be used. Just one more "Unfair Advantage". > > Cheers, > Kurt O. > > David W. Riddle wrote: > >>formula1.com (the official site) is not yet reporting this result and >>neither is f1i.com (kinda an "outlaw" site). SpeedTV's website is >>saying that they were not penalized. >> >>Would be interesting to know how the fuel in the tank was 14 degrees >>cooler than the ambient air? >> >>Kas any suggestions? I'm sure other racers would like to know how to >>cool their fuel on hot days. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 21 21:10:48 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:10:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> It wasn't the fuel in the car, it was the fuel being delivered by the fueling rig, They are allowed to have cooling, in fact all teams do, but they have to stay within a specific range of ambient. The brouhaha is that they BMW and Williams teams were a few degrees cooler than they were supposed to be. The mitigating circumstance is that the officially measured ambient temperature and the unofficially measured ambient were further apart than at any event this year. The stewards initially decided not to apply a penalty, but their reasoning had to do with technical issues that they are not qualified to determine. So the potential for a change in the championship still exists--McLaren has filed a protest and it will need to be considered. On Oct 21, 2007, at 5:20 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > formula1.com (the official site) is not yet reporting this result and > neither is f1i.com (kinda an "outlaw" site). SpeedTV's website is > saying that they were not penalized. > > Would be interesting to know how the fuel in the tank was 14 degrees > cooler than the ambient air? > > Kas any suggestions? I'm sure other racers would like to know how to > cool their fuel on hot days. > > At 05:14 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >> According to the F1 web site, "The BMW Sauber and Williams teams >> have escaped penalty after being investigated by Brazilian Grand >> Prix stewards over fuel irregularities on their cars at the end of >> Sunday's Interlagos race." >> >> So if this is indeed right, your hope has been confirmed! >> >> Joe >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net >> [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of >> Bill Babcock >> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:05 PM >> To: David W. Riddle >> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! >> >> I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to >> active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards >> seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. >> >> >> On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: >> >>> Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in >>> doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton >>> up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points >>> would >>> be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers >>> standings where they are. >>> >>> At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>>> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >>>> rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a >>>> change, >>>> and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> spitlist at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sun Oct 21 22:32:30 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 21:32:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW><3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com><20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com><000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <007e01c81464$8f37c0e0$0a10c548@RW> Come on!!!! Cool fuel, Only since the middle ages. We ALWAYS did this. On my Vitesse (1972) I had a cool can in the engine compartment that was full of ice and cooled the fuel before it went to the carbs. Not quite as effective as in the tank, but then it was within the regulations. We tried in every way possible with the GTP cars to keep the fuel cool (and the tires hot). Some tricks were never found. This is what we did for a LIVING. We paid attention. The F-1 guys are more than that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! > formula1.com (the official site) is not yet reporting this result and > neither is f1i.com (kinda an "outlaw" site). SpeedTV's website is > saying that they were not penalized. > > Would be interesting to know how the fuel in the tank was 14 degrees > cooler than the ambient air? > > Kas any suggestions? I'm sure other racers would like to know how to > cool their fuel on hot days. > > At 05:14 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>According to the F1 web site, "The BMW Sauber and Williams teams >>have escaped penalty after being investigated by Brazilian Grand >>Prix stewards over fuel irregularities on their cars at the end of >>Sunday's Interlagos race." >> >>So if this is indeed right, your hope has been confirmed! >> >>Joe >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net >>[mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill >>Babcock >>Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:05 PM >>To: David W. Riddle >>Cc: fot at autox.team.net >>Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! >> >>I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to >>active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards >>seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. >> >> >>On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: >> >> > Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in >> > doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton >> > up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would >> > be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers >> > standings where they are. >> > >> > At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >> >> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >> >> rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, >> >> and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>spitlist at cox.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 23:33:12 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:33:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Bill, it was the fuel in the cars and not in the fueling rig. http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41157 "...After Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix the stewards analysed fuel samples taken from the Williams and BMW cars during their pit stops, which appeared to show temperatures outside the permitted range..." At 08:10 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >It wasn't the fuel in the car, it was the fuel being delivered by the >fueling rig, They are allowed to have cooling, in fact all teams do, >but they have to stay within a specific range of ambient. The >brouhaha is that they BMW and Williams teams were a few degrees >cooler than they were supposed to be. The mitigating circumstance is >that the officially measured ambient temperature and the unofficially >measured ambient were further apart than at any event this year. The >stewards initially decided not to apply a penalty, but their >reasoning had to do with technical issues that they are not qualified >to determine. So the potential for a change in the championship still >exists--McLaren has filed a protest and it will need to be considered. From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 23:33:31 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:33:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume In-Reply-To: <007e01c81464$8f37c0e0$0a10c548@RW> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <007e01c81464$8f37c0e0$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <20071022053749.BEWP15556.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> With the controversy from the F1 race today and the possible cooling of fuel by BMW and Williams and the idea of cooling the fuel to get it to take up less volume got me thinking. Next month on the 25th my Son will have a 45 minute Endurance race on his 125 shifter at Firebird Main. Normally there is no way that a fuel hungry "built" 125 shifter motor can go that distance on the single 9 liter tank that we are allowed to run. The fuel rules as presented for this race. --------------- * No mandatory stops. * 9 liter maximum fuel capacity (2.37 gallons) for TAG and Shifter groups. This is equal to the largest normally available plastic tanks. * No unusual fuel line or filter set ups. * No auxiliary fuel tanks. * Recommended that no more than 1 gallon be added when refueling. * No pressurized refueling systems. --------------- Now, the supplemental rules do not say anything about cooling the fuel and the normal rules only address the use of prohibited cooling "systems". I'm thinking I ought to take a chance a fill a container with our mixed fuel and keep it in an ice cooler until just before the race. After qualifying drain the tank. Push the kart to grid and then fill the tank there on the grid just before time to push off for the race. Think the increased density of the chilled fuel would make a measurable difference in the capacity that I'm talking about? If so this seems like it might be in the best tradition of Mark Donahue. No fuel gauge on a kart and once the level drops below a certain volume the driver can't see how much fuel is left in the tank. I'm planning on testing during practice and qualifying to see if I can check his fuel level with binoculars so that I can determine if I need to hang a sign to pit for fuel. From spitlist at cox.net Sun Oct 21 23:46:49 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:46:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume In-Reply-To: <20071022053749.BEWP15556.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW><3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com><20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com><000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><007e01c81464$8f37c0e0$0a10c548@RW> <20071022053749.BEWP15556.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: <001801c8146e$f0bc27c0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Do they allow you to spray foam onto the outside of the tank? If so, then you should go to the hardware store and get a can of polyurethane foam then spray a coating all around it. That will keep it cool longer and hopefully avoid expansion that might cause the tank to overflow. A float in the tank connected to a light (ala MGTD) might be a way for him to know that he is running low in case the cool fuel doesn't allow him to go the full distance. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David W. Riddle Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 10:34 PM To: fot at autox.team.net; wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com; william.r.riddle at usmc.mil; ssedmonds at cox.net; scott at microworks.net; members at dctra.org Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume With the controversy from the F1 race today and the possible cooling of fuel by BMW and Williams and the idea of cooling the fuel to get it to take up less volume got me thinking. Next month on the 25th my Son will have a 45 minute Endurance race on his 125 shifter at Firebird Main. Normally there is no way that a fuel hungry "built" 125 shifter motor can go that distance on the single 9 liter tank that we are allowed to run. The fuel rules as presented for this race. --------------- * No mandatory stops. * 9 liter maximum fuel capacity (2.37 gallons) for TAG and Shifter groups. This is equal to the largest normally available plastic tanks. * No unusual fuel line or filter set ups. * No auxiliary fuel tanks. * Recommended that no more than 1 gallon be added when refueling. * No pressurized refueling systems. --------------- Now, the supplemental rules do not say anything about cooling the fuel and the normal rules only address the use of prohibited cooling "systems". I'm thinking I ought to take a chance a fill a container with our mixed fuel and keep it in an ice cooler until just before the race. After qualifying drain the tank. Push the kart to grid and then fill the tank there on the grid just before time to push off for the race. Think the increased density of the chilled fuel would make a measurable difference in the capacity that I'm talking about? If so this seems like it might be in the best tradition of Mark Donahue. No fuel gauge on a kart and once the level drops below a certain volume the driver can't see how much fuel is left in the tank. I'm planning on testing during practice and qualifying to see if I can check his fuel level with binoculars so that I can determine if I need to hang a sign to pit for fuel. spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Mon Oct 22 00:13:38 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:13:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW><3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com><20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com><000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <001901c81472$afafa410$2202a8c0@newcomputer> I am wondering how the fuel samples are taken from the cars during pit stops. With all the mechanics hovering over the cars changing tires and refueling, I can't see how any race officials can possibly take samples from the car. (Some of them can't even stay out of the way of certain drivers.) I would believe that they take samples from the rig shortly after refueling but not from the car. I just can't see how that would be possible. I wait eagerly to see how this develops and think that if the McLaren protest does take place and upheld, putting Lewis into the championship; there will be a major outcrying from a host of people. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David W. Riddle Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 10:33 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! Bill, it was the fuel in the cars and not in the fueling rig. http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41157 "...After Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix the stewards analysed fuel samples taken from the Williams and BMW cars during their pit stops, which appeared to show temperatures outside the permitted range..." At 08:10 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >It wasn't the fuel in the car, it was the fuel being delivered by the >fueling rig, They are allowed to have cooling, in fact all teams do, >but they have to stay within a specific range of ambient. The >brouhaha is that they BMW and Williams teams were a few degrees >cooler than they were supposed to be. The mitigating circumstance is >that the officially measured ambient temperature and the unofficially >measured ambient were further apart than at any event this year. The >stewards initially decided not to apply a penalty, but their >reasoning had to do with technical issues that they are not qualified >to determine. So the potential for a change in the championship still >exists--McLaren has filed a protest and it will need to be considered. spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 22 00:14:18 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:14:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <9D2354BD-FFDA-46EE-8F42-580B6EB4B66B@bnj.com> Actually, you're wrong, and that's part of the steward's decision. The FIA samples the fuel during pits stops. They don't take it from the car, they take it from the fueling rig. Article 6.5.5 of the F1 technical rules state that, No fuel on board the car may be more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient temperature. The FIA have now confirmed that the trios fuel temperatures were outside the permitted temperatures, saying the fuel was more than 10 degrees below the ambient temperature. In a statement, it has been revealed that during his first pit-stop, Heidfelds fuel temperature was 13 degrees lower than the ambient temperature, and during his second stop, his fuel was 12 degrees lower. Robert Kubicas pit-stops have revealed that his temperatures were 14 degrees, 13 degrees and 13 degrees out respectively. Nico Rosbergs fuel temperatures were 13 and 12 degrees out. It has also been revealed that the second BMW of Kazuki Nakajima also had fuel temperature irregularities  his fuel was 12 degrees out on the first stop, however his fuel temperatures were within regulations on his second stop. The air temperature during the race averaged 37 degrees, while track temperatures topped a record 64 degrees. The stewards stated in their finding that they have no precise reading of the fuel on board the car, and that since the only temperatures they have available are from the fueling rigs, that the measurements don't fit the requirements of the regulation which states the "fuel on board can be no more than ten degrees cooler than ambient." Fuel rig temperature is not a completely accurate indication of the temperature on board, which is the how the regulation reads. This seems to be a pretty clear decision even if it rests on a technical point that the stewards are not really qualified to make. But they unfortunately clouded the issue by also saying that the definition of ambient was only assumed to be the temperature indicated on the F1 management timing monitors but there was a large discrepancy between the FOM ambient and the meteorologists that the teams contract with, and the regulation does not clearly state that the FOM number is definitive. The stewards conclusion was that there is sufficient doubt as to both the temperature of the fuel actually on board and as to the true ambient temperature to render it inappropriate to impose a penalty On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:33 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > Bill, it was the fuel in the cars and not in the fueling rig. > > http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41157 > > "...After Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix the stewards analysed fuel > samples taken from the Williams and BMW cars during their pit stops, > which appeared to show temperatures outside the permitted range..." > > At 08:10 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >> It wasn't the fuel in the car, it was the fuel being delivered by the >> fueling rig, They are allowed to have cooling, in fact all teams do, >> but they have to stay within a specific range of ambient. The >> brouhaha is that they BMW and Williams teams were a few degrees >> cooler than they were supposed to be. The mitigating circumstance is >> that the officially measured ambient temperature and the unofficially >> measured ambient were further apart than at any event this year. The >> stewards initially decided not to apply a penalty, but their >> reasoning had to do with technical issues that they are not qualified >> to determine. So the potential for a change in the championship still >> exists--McLaren has filed a protest and it will need to be >> considered. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 22 00:18:30 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:18:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <29E7EBF5-82A6-4815-B8FC-CB882FEED013@bnj.com> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <9D2354BD-FFDA-46EE-8F42-580B6EB4B66B@bnj.com> <29E7EBF5-82A6-4815-B8FC-CB882FEED013@bnj.com> Message-ID: <84A5481B-BBED-4B75-BCCF-5798ED5860DE@bnj.com> Oops, jammed up by the message size limit. Let's try this: On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:16 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I should have put quotes around this section > On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:14 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> Actually, you're wrong, and that's part of the steward's decision. >> The FIA samples the fuel during pits stops. They don't take it from >> the car, they take it from the fueling rig. >> >> >>>"Article 6.5.5 of the F1 technical rules state that, No fuel >> on board >> the car may be more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient >> temperature. The FIA have now confirmed that the trios fuel >> temperatures were outside the permitted temperatures, saying the fuel >> was more than 10 degrees below the ambient temperature. >> >> In a statement, it has been revealed that during his first pit-stop, >> Heidfelds fuel temperature was 13 degrees lower than the ambient >> temperature, and during his second stop, his fuel was 12 degrees >> lower. >> >> Robert Kubicas pit-stops have revealed that his temperatures were 14 >> degrees, 13 degrees and 13 degrees out respectively. Nico Rosbergs >> fuel temperatures were 13 and 12 degrees out. >> >> It has also been revealed that the second BMW of Kazuki Nakajima also >> had fuel temperature irregularities  his fuel was 12 degrees out on >> the first stop, however his fuel temperatures were within regulations >> on his second stop. The air temperature during the race averaged 37 >> degrees, while track temperatures topped a record 64 degrees."<<< >> >> The stewards stated in their finding that they have no precise >> reading of the fuel on board the car, and that since the only >> temperatures they have available are from the fueling rigs, that the >> measurements don't fit the requirements of the regulation which >> states the "fuel on board can be no more than ten degrees cooler than >> ambient." Fuel rig temperature is not a completely accurate >> indication of the temperature on board, which is the how the >> regulation reads. >> >> This seems to be a pretty clear decision even if it rests on a >> technical point that the stewards are not really qualified to make. >> But they unfortunately clouded the issue by also saying that the >> definition of ambient was only assumed to be the temperature >> indicated on the F1 management timing monitors but there was a large >> discrepancy between the FOM ambient and the meteorologists that the >> teams contract with, and the regulation does not clearly state that >> the FOM number is definitive. >> >> The stewards conclusion was that there is sufficient doubt as to both >> the temperature of the fuel actually on board and as to the true >> ambient temperature to render it inappropriate to impose a penalty From DSPGTi at aol.com Mon Oct 22 06:00:04 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:00:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume Message-ID: If I remember correctly, the expansion rate for gasoline is about .6% for every 10 degrees F. So if you drop the fuel say 40 degrees, you decrease the volume by 2.4%. Will that make a significant enough difference? Dave Y. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From chris at tr4-racing.de Mon Oct 22 06:40:21 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:40:21 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife race Message-ID: <001b01c814a8$b65a6da0$6402a8c0@HOME> Weeks ago I was there with my camera..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXKFSp5Vvbw From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Mon Oct 22 09:01:28 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:01:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure In-Reply-To: <000e01c813f1$b5e5c700$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <000801c814bc$6c647830$171a694c@computer> I just had an autocross weekend where the course was 5 continuous laps and I ran 31 lbs all the way around in my TR6. What I am trying to determine through this question and the experience of FOT guys is whether or not there is any application on the race track for the TR6 factory recommended 4 (or so) lbs less pressure in the front than the back. I don't know what the factory pressure recommendations are for TR 3, 4, and 4A are but if they are similar to the TR6 (which is 4 lbs less in the front than the rear), then my question extends to them too. Also, I don't know if this type of engineering thinking is Triumph, British, the era or what. Any thoughts? Jim Hearn Sacramento, CA Two '74 TR6s -----Original Message----- From: BOB KRAMER [mailto:rkramer3 at austin.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 7:50 AM To: jim hearn; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing tire pressure I'm still early in learning how best to set up my TR4A but I have found that 30 front and 31.5 rear works OK with Hoosier Speedsters on my car. I started our 30 all across and gradually upped the rears. Without the lower front pressures turn in was too light. I had the car weighed the last time out and I'm going to do some adjustments so my pressures may be meaningless to someone else. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:43 PM Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure > It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on > the > front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended > air > pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high > speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear > than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with > race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. > > Jim Hearn > Sacramento, CA > Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Mon Oct 22 09:05:22 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:05:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship In-Reply-To: <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> Message-ID: <000901c814bc$f83c55d0$171a694c@computer> Kimi is a deserving champion especially with clouds over the points of both the McLaren drivers. I thought it was a great outcome. Jim Hearn Sacramento, CA Two '74 TR6s -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 4:38 PM To: Kas Kastner Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. I don't think it makes sense to say someone deserves a win--if they win, they deserve it. But Kimi certainly had a break coming. Nice to see him finally get one. On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > Apparently Hamilton's car went into neutral on corner four (for no > known > reason) and then it was a struggle to get it to work again. Kimi, > YES!!!!!. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David W. Riddle" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:12 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship > > >> Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the >> season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and >> 3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. >> >> Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to >> put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. >> >> For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at >> Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his >> karting. He was running a KT100 >> >> Here is the Hamilton Video >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g >> >> Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s >> >> At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>> Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >>> champagne. >>> >>> On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: >>> >>>> What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite >>>> unexpected >>>> World Championship for Kimi. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Joe C. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> billb at bnj.com >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot at autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> dave at microworks.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Oct 22 09:23:10 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:23:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip Message-ID: <000c01c814bf$74f520f0$0501000a@Chowdown> After careful cleaning and rebuilding of my race SU carbs, the rear carb slowly drips blue racing fuel. I'm actually at a better point now than I was before when both of them were drooling gasoline. I've rebuilt them twice on the bench and once in the car. :) I suspect the problem lies with the small cork "jet gland seals" that get compressed between the cupped washers. I've soaked these little guys in oil overnight to soften them up but perhaps my rebuild kits are too old and they have dried out too much. There's a "leak proof" o-ring replacement from Moss, are these any good? Here are my four questions: 1, How tight should I go with the jet locking nut? Until the upper (outer) jet bearing is aligned with the bridge? As I tighten it, a tan cork seal gets compressed. 2, The jet-gland gaskets that I described above were compressed into tight little doughnut shapes when I took the old ones out. The new ones don't seem to compress very much and I think they're the cause of my leak. Will they seal better over time as they get soaked with gas and the spring keeps smooshing them? 3, The jet adjusting nut at the bottom hangs up on the spring and causes the jet bearing to turn when I try to tighten the nut. I added a thin washer between the nut and the bottom of the spring. Is this okay? 4. All the adjustment procedures are for a 500rpm stock idle. My race car won't do that. More like 1200rpm. Can I synchronise the carbs and adjust the mixture at a high idle? Thanks gang. ~Steve From koblinger at verizon.net Mon Oct 22 11:00:00 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:00:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume Message-ID: <1923980.39062231193072400713.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> Well, you could experiment and take a carefully measured amount of fuel, say a liter, and chill it as you plan. Then remeasure it to see how much volume you gain. I assume you have an idea as to how many laps you get out of a liter. Then you could get an idea as to if you gain any real advantage. Joe's idea of insulating the fuel tank is good, but your competitors would see that and go "Hmmmm, what's he up to." Cheers, Kurt >From: "David W. Riddle" >Date: 2007/10/22 Mon AM 12:33:31 CDT >To: fot at autox.team.net, "wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com" , william.r.riddle at usmc.mil, ssedmonds at cox.net, scott at microworks.net, members at dctra.org >Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume >With the controversy from the F1 race today and the possible cooling >of fuel by BMW and Williams and the idea of cooling the fuel to get >it to take up less volume got me thinking. > >Next month on the 25th my Son will have a 45 minute Endurance race on >his 125 shifter at Firebird Main. Normally there is no way that a >fuel hungry "built" 125 shifter motor can go that distance on the >single 9 liter tank that we are allowed to run. > >The fuel rules as presented for this race. > >--------------- >* No mandatory stops. >* 9 liter maximum fuel capacity (2.37 gallons) for TAG and Shifter groups. >This is equal to the largest normally available plastic tanks. >* No unusual fuel line or filter set ups. >* No auxiliary fuel tanks. >* Recommended that no more than 1 gallon be added when refueling. >* No pressurized refueling systems. >--------------- > >Now, the supplemental rules do not say anything about cooling the >fuel and the normal rules only address the use of prohibited cooling >"systems". I'm thinking I ought to take a chance a fill a container >with our mixed fuel and keep it in an ice cooler until just before >the race. After qualifying drain the tank. Push the kart to grid >and then fill the tank there on the grid just before time to push off >for the race. > >Think the increased density of the chilled fuel would make a >measurable difference in the capacity that I'm talking about? If so >this seems like it might be in the best tradition of Mark Donahue. > >No fuel gauge on a kart and once the level drops below a certain >volume the driver can't see how much fuel is left in the tank. I'm >planning on testing during practice and qualifying to see if I can >check his fuel level with binoculars so that I can determine if I >need to hang a sign to pit for fuel. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Mon Oct 22 13:23:02 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:23:02 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume Message-ID: <20071022.132302.2104.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> I was amazed just how much gasoline expands when warmed. In my '76 Spitfire, when I was going on long drives, I had a section of 3/16 copper tubing bent into a 'J'. I would insert it into the fuel tank inlet to vent the air space at the top of the tank. On one occasion, my time from fueling to departure got extended a bit and the car was parked in the sun. When I was ready to leave, there was a sheet of gasoline cascading off the boot lid. I'm sure if I had popped the gas cap open, it would have gushed at least a foot above the inlet. That was probably less than a 25'F increase. Never did that again unless I was driving it immediately after fueling. Bill On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:00:04 EDT DSPGTi at aol.com writes: > If I remember correctly, the expansion rate for gasoline is about .6% > for > every 10 degrees F. So if you drop the fuel say 40 degrees, you > decrease the > volume by 2.4%. Will that make a significant enough difference? > > Dave Y. > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Mon Oct 22 13:57:50 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:57:50 -0600 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! Message-ID: <20071022.135750.2104.1.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Is it time to suspect thermometers? Accuracy, calibration, user competency; the basics. Bill R On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:18:30 -0700 Bill Babcock writes: > Oops, jammed up by the message size limit. Let's try this: > On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:16 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > > > I should have put quotes around this section > > On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:14 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > > > >> Actually, you're wrong, and that's part of the steward's > decision. > >> The FIA samples the fuel during pits stops. They don't take it > from > >> the car, they take it from the fueling rig. > >> > >> >>>"Article 6.5.5 of the F1 technical rules state that, No fuel > >> on board > >> the car may be more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient > >> temperature. The FIA have now confirmed that the trios fuel > >> temperatures were outside the permitted temperatures, saying the > fuel > >> was more than 10 degrees below the ambient temperature. > >> > >> In a statement, it has been revealed that during his first > pit-stop, > >> Heidfelds fuel temperature was 13 degrees lower than the > ambient > >> temperature, and during his second stop, his fuel was 12 degrees > >> lower. > >> > >> Robert Kubicas pit-stops have revealed that his temperatures > were 14 > >> degrees, 13 degrees and 13 degrees out respectively. Nico > Rosbergs > >> fuel temperatures were 13 and 12 degrees out. > >> > >> It has also been revealed that the second BMW of Kazuki Nakajima > also > >> had fuel temperature irregularities  his fuel was 12 degrees out > on > >> the first stop, however his fuel temperatures were within > regulations > >> on his second stop. The air temperature during the race averaged > 37 > >> degrees, while track temperatures topped a record 64 > degrees."<<< > >> > >> The stewards stated in their finding that they have no precise > >> reading of the fuel on board the car, and that since the only > >> temperatures they have available are from the fueling rigs, that > the > >> measurements don't fit the requirements of the regulation which > >> states the "fuel on board can be no more than ten degrees cooler > than > >> ambient." Fuel rig temperature is not a completely accurate > >> indication of the temperature on board, which is the how the > >> regulation reads. > >> > >> This seems to be a pretty clear decision even if it rests on a > >> technical point that the stewards are not really qualified to > make. > >> But they unfortunately clouded the issue by also saying that the > >> definition of ambient was only assumed to be the temperature > >> indicated on the F1 management timing monitors but there was a > large > >> discrepancy between the FOM ambient and the meteorologists that > the > >> teams contract with, and the regulation does not clearly state > that > >> the FOM number is definitive. > >> > >> The stewards conclusion was that there is sufficient doubt as to > both > >> the temperature of the fuel actually on board and as to the true > >> ambient temperature to render it inappropriate to impose a > penalty > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Oct 22 14:57:05 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:57:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife race In-Reply-To: <001b01c814a8$b65a6da0$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: Nice sound and action. Thanks Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Marx Christian tr4-racing Sent: October 22, 2007 8:40 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife race Weeks ago I was there with my camera..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXKFSp5Vvbw macdonaldp at rogers.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Mon Oct 22 15:01:09 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:01:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! References: <20071022.135750.2104.1.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <00d401c814ee$abc02f10$0a10c548@RW> Absolutely, you protest EVERYTHING. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William G Rosenbach" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! > Is it time to suspect thermometers? Accuracy, calibration, user > competency; the basics. > Bill R > > On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:18:30 -0700 Bill Babcock writes: >> Oops, jammed up by the message size limit. Let's try this: >> On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:16 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: >> >> > I should have put quotes around this section >> > On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:14 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: >> > >> >> Actually, you're wrong, and that's part of the steward's >> decision. >> >> The FIA samples the fuel during pits stops. They don't take it >> from >> >> the car, they take it from the fueling rig. >> >> >> >> >>>"Article 6.5.5 of the F1 technical rules state that, No fuel >> >> on board >> >> the car may be more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient >> >> temperature. The FIA have now confirmed that the trios fuel >> >> temperatures were outside the permitted temperatures, saying the >> fuel >> >> was more than 10 degrees below the ambient temperature. >> >> >> >> In a statement, it has been revealed that during his first >> pit-stop, >> >> Heidfelds fuel temperature was 13 degrees lower than the >> ambient >> >> temperature, and during his second stop, his fuel was 12 degrees >> >> lower. >> >> >> >> Robert Kubicas pit-stops have revealed that his temperatures >> were 14 >> >> degrees, 13 degrees and 13 degrees out respectively. Nico >> Rosbergs >> >> fuel temperatures were 13 and 12 degrees out. >> >> >> >> It has also been revealed that the second BMW of Kazuki Nakajima >> also >> >> had fuel temperature irregularities  his fuel was 12 degrees out >> on >> >> the first stop, however his fuel temperatures were within >> regulations >> >> on his second stop. The air temperature during the race averaged >> 37 >> >> degrees, while track temperatures topped a record 64 >> degrees."<<< >> >> >> >> The stewards stated in their finding that they have no precise >> >> reading of the fuel on board the car, and that since the only >> >> temperatures they have available are from the fueling rigs, that >> the >> >> measurements don't fit the requirements of the regulation which >> >> states the "fuel on board can be no more than ten degrees cooler >> than >> >> ambient." Fuel rig temperature is not a completely accurate >> >> indication of the temperature on board, which is the how the >> >> regulation reads. >> >> >> >> This seems to be a pretty clear decision even if it rests on a >> >> technical point that the stewards are not really qualified to >> make. >> >> But they unfortunately clouded the issue by also saying that the >> >> definition of ambient was only assumed to be the temperature >> >> indicated on the F1 management timing monitors but there was a >> large >> >> discrepancy between the FOM ambient and the meteorologists that >> the >> >> teams contract with, and the regulation does not clearly state >> that >> >> the FOM number is definitive. >> >> >> >> The stewards conclusion was that there is sufficient doubt as to >> both >> >> the temperature of the fuel actually on board and as to the true >> >> ambient temperature to render it inappropriate to impose a >> penalty >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> wgrosenbach at juno.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Mon Oct 22 15:47:24 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:47:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! References: <20071022.135750.2104.1.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <005d01c814f5$22413160$2d02a8c0@Belkin> The way I see it is that since the rule stipulates temperature of the fuel in the car. Since there is no way to measure the temperature of the fuel in the car, there is no way that anyone can possibly say conclusively that the fuel in the cars is too cool. It is easy to imagine that cool fuel will rise in temperature as soon as it goes into the (very hot) race car and with the temps in the rig not more than 3 degrees out of tolerance, how could anyone conclude that the fuel would stay out of tolerance after it went into the car. It certainly isn't going to get any colder and most likely will be hotter immediately. But then, it is anybody's guess how those people think! Joe C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William G Rosenbach" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! > Is it time to suspect thermometers? Accuracy, calibration, user > competency; the basics. > Bill R From chris at tr4-racing.de Mon Oct 22 16:01:10 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:01:10 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife race References: Message-ID: <006901c814f7$0edbe9b0$6402a8c0@HOME> I've found the YouTube quality terrible so here is a better version to download: http://www.tr4-racing.de/download/adac.wmv ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul MacDonald" To: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" ; Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:57 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Nordschleife race > Nice sound and action. > > Thanks > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of > Marx Christian tr4-racing > Sent: October 22, 2007 8:40 AM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife race > > > Weeks ago I was there with my camera..... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXKFSp5Vvbw > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > macdonaldp at rogers.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tlizzard at msn.com Mon Oct 22 16:39:40 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:39:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure References: <000801c814bc$6c647830$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: Typically what a manufacturer is doing with a tire pressure setup like that in a stock vehicle is giving the vehicle more straight line stability. Remember that most drivers confuse "stability" with "handling". Hence a car that is very stable in a straight line is a "good handling car". Now one of the things you are trying to achieve with higher front pressures is a crisper turn in, in addition to helping to balance a typically front heavy car. Those higher pressures in the front will make the car more responsive to steering input. Very important in a low speed, relatively tight autocross situation. Back in the day I actively campaigned my '88 Honda CRX in our SCCA regional autocross series. Because of the very understeery nature of front wheel drive I typically ran a 10 pound differential front to rear in autocross mode. However when I took the same car to Mid Ohio to run Porsche Club or Track Time schools I backed it down to around a 6 pound delta, because of the much higher speeds involved on the track, and FWD's interesting little characteristic of violent trailing throttle oversteer... But that's another story... Terry Stetler From mark at bradakis.com Mon Oct 22 16:45:48 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:45:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] List message sizes In-Reply-To: <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> Message-ID: <471D281C.1090708@bradakis.com> Finally getting around to answering an old question. Sorry for the delay. Bill Babcock wrote: >First one bounced--too big. Hey Mark, isn't 4K a bit too restrictive? > > Well, yes and no, sort of. It is an arbitrary limit I just picked. On some of the other big lists, though, it is only 3K. Basically the problem lies in the default behavior of many popular email clients in use today. When people respond to a message, the *entire* message is added to the end of the response. Unlike this message, which has only one pertinent line included, at the beginning, where it is clear to see the issue under discussion. So what happens is that as people continue discussion on a topic, the messages keep getting longer and longer and longer and longer. There may be only two or three lines still pertinent to the discussion or necessary for context, but all the useless verbiage keeps getting dragged along for the ride. Last time I actually ran some statistical programs on the Team.Net lists, about 70 - 80 percent of the character count of list messages was text that was included for no real reason at all. That's about the same as buying a 6 pack of your favorite beverage, and getting one or two that are the actual fresh, new beverage, the rest are, uh, recycled product. All this extra, useless text does is slow down the Team.Net network line, transmitting bits that it doesn't need to transmit. It slows down the list archiving processes, as they have to go over the same text again and again. Gee, nothing like getting 50 hits on your search only to find that 48 of them are the same old paragraph added again and again and again to peoples replies. The added replies slow down the mail processing, adding to the delays in getting the messages out to the list. If the preceding paragraph is too much computer jargon for you to get your mind around, then think of it this way - how would your race car start behaving if every time you crossed the start/finish line you had to stop and take on another 50 pounds of ballast? And of course, there is the time I have to spend cleaning up bouncing addresses because all the clueless replies filled up the mailboxes of hapless subscribers who've hit their limit. I know that I'm never going to be able to singlehandedly change human behavior, but it sure would be nice if a few more folks spent an extra few seconds on their list messages. Set your mailer to NOT include the original in your reply, just paste in the appropriate line or two as I did above. Or at least delete the text that serves no purpose in your response, rather than just absentmindedly trying to stuff it down the Team.Net pipe for no useful reason. If you do have a lot to say and your all-original message does hit up against the size limit, I do try to stay somewhat current with admin requests, and I'll approve such messages and get them on their way as I have time. Gee, this message is getting kind of long. Wonder how many folks will respond, and include it in its entirety in their response? For now, I'll just send it off and then spend some more time wading through the 7,664 unread messages cuurently in my Team.Net admin mailbox. mjb. From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Mon Oct 22 16:55:02 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:55:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] List message sizes In-Reply-To: <471D281C.1090708@bradakis.com> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net><34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com><2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> <471D281C.1090708@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747C67E0@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> << Wonder how many folks will respond, and include it in its entirety in their response? For now, I'll just send it off and then spend some more time wading through the 7,664 unread messages currently in my Team.Net admin mailbox. >> Er, all of which reminds me that I haven't hit the "donate" link in a few months... Thanks, Mark! Scott B. -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Mark J. Bradakis Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:46 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] List message sizes Finally getting around to answering an old question. Sorry for the delay. mjb. scott.barr at mccarty-law.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From SpiwakD at aol.com Mon Oct 22 16:58:18 2007 From: SpiwakD at aol.com (SpiwakD at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:58:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] Tilton brake piston size Message-ID: Am considering a Tilton pedal setup with master and slave cylinders for TR3. Who knows what size piston to order? Dave ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From rocky at spitfire4.com Mon Oct 22 16:59:30 2007 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:59:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure References: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <006c01c814ff$407b2f50$6701a8c0@S1099895562> Numerous factors figure in, including corner weight. Also a factor is what you set them at cold and what they end up at hot. In my Spitfire, I set them 21F/24R for autocross, 18F/21R for racing. They end up hot in the 25-27 range. Used to be long, long ago my autox setup was just the reverse -- 24/21. Then I lost 100 lbs on the front end by taking the stock steel bonnet off and replacing it with a lightweight fiberglass one. Completely changed the handling of the car. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:43 PM Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure > It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on > the > front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended > air > pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high > speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear > than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with > race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. > > Jim Hearn > Sacramento, CA > Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rocky at spitfire4.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Mon Oct 22 17:56:19 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:56:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Tire Pressures Message-ID: <50069b074a4f98c0dd02f121cb8acc31@wi.rr.com> Friends, At Road America, I run cold pressures as follows: 30.5 LF, 29 RF, 27 LR and 29.5 RR. Hot pressures run 37 LF, 36 RF, 34 LR and 34 RR. I'm running a 1" bar in the front with a 3/4" bar at the rear. Tires are 15" Toyo RA-1's. Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 22 18:42:22 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:42:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure In-Reply-To: <003501c8150c$121228f0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <000801c814bc$6c647830$171a694c@computer> <8B7293C3-8E2F-49B6-9AD8-1E5F9BD82172@bnj.com> <003501c8150c$121228f0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: Hard to say where your car is without ensuring the camber is right first. Usually with radial tires like the Hoosier Speedsters you need at least 2.5 degrees, though you might need more with a heavy car. If you don't have camber right, then the feel of the car won't be a real indication that your tire pressures are right or wrong. You can overinflate a car with too little camber and get a better feeling turn in, because the overinflation effectively produces both a stiffer sidewall, and a bowed contact area which acts like camber to some degree. It won't be anywhere near optimal, but it will feel good. If you're getting oversteer on a Triumph then something is seriously screwy. You've got to work at it to get oversteer on any Triumph I've driven (admittedly mostly TR3's and 4 though I have a little seat time on track in a TR6) On Oct 22, 2007, at 5:31 PM, BOB KRAMER wrote: > Bill, > > It was my copied response that mentioned too light. I did mean that > on my car with equal front and rear pressures I experience > oversteer, the kind that takes away speed because I felt like I was > about to whip the rear around at all times. Dropping the front > pressure definitely helped balance out that sensation. I'm not > saying that it isn't faster that way, not yet at least. > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" > To: "jim hearn" > Cc: "'BOB KRAMER'" ; > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:17 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing tire pressure > > >> Jim, >> The factory tire recommendations have nothing to do with racing. >> In racing conditions you need to take into consideration two >> things-- optimizing the contact patch and making sure the tires >> are pointing in the right direction. >> >> The best tool for optimizing the tire contact patch is a tire >> pyrometer and a skid pad (or a really tight and twisty race >> track). What you want to see is even temperatures across the tire >> which indicates the tire is pressing with essentially equal force >> against the road across the entire tire. At a normal race track >> you don't get a good indication of outer edge temperature because >> it gets cooled as the car runs down the straight. From stutzmans at comcast.net Mon Oct 22 19:08:18 2007 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:08:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip References: <000c01c814bf$74f520f0$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <000301c81511$35b1c810$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> leaking H6 carbs is one of the main reasons why many of us are using HS6 carbs. I am reluctant to even rebuild H6's for friends because they are probably going to leak. Dave hagenbuck at TRF has O rings to replace the cork gland washers that he says work. The jet bearing is not replaced when they are rebuilt; it is not part of the rebuild kit. It can get out of round by years of the jet rubbing against it when the choke is pulled on and off. If this has happened the cork washer won't seal. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:23 AM Subject: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip > After careful cleaning and rebuilding of my race SU carbs, the rear carb > slowly drips blue racing fuel. I'm actually at a better point now than I > was > before when both of them were drooling gasoline. I've rebuilt them twice > on > the bench and once in the car. :) I suspect the problem lies with the > small > cork "jet gland seals" that get compressed between the cupped washers. > I've > soaked these little guys in oil overnight to soften them up but perhaps my > rebuild kits are too old and they have dried out too much. There's a > "leak > proof" o-ring replacement from Moss, are these any good? > > Here are my four questions: > > 1, How tight should I go with the jet locking nut? Until the upper > (outer) > jet bearing is aligned with the bridge? As I tighten it, a tan cork seal > gets > compressed. > > 2, The jet-gland gaskets that I described above were compressed into > tight > little doughnut shapes when I took the old ones out. The new ones don't > seem > to compress very much and I think they're the cause of my leak. Will they > seal better over time as they get soaked with gas and the spring keeps > smooshing them? > > 3, The jet adjusting nut at the bottom hangs up on the spring and causes > the > jet bearing to turn when I try to tighten the nut. I added a thin washer > between the nut and the bottom of the spring. Is this okay? > > 4. All the adjustment procedures are for a 500rpm stock idle. My race car > won't do that. More like 1200rpm. Can I synchronise the carbs and adjust > the > mixture at a high idle? > > > Thanks gang. > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > stutzmans at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Oct 22 19:25:01 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:25:01 GMT Subject: [Fot] Tilton brake piston size Message-ID: <20071022.212501.6449.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Dave, I am on the road for the week, so can't look to see what I have where, but I have two 0.70 masters and one 0.75 master. I think the 0.75 is front and a 0.7 for clutch and the other for rear. I, however have Jaguar 3 piston front calipers and Wilwood rear calipers, so my car may not be a good comparison. I went with the Wilwood pedal assembly with Tilton master cylinders. Initially this was because the Tilton pedals were on back order, but after looking at them closer I liked the Wilwood ones better for how I was going to mount them. They also have non-slip pedals. Download the drawings and compare them. Joe(B) -- SpiwakD at aol.com wrote: Am considering a Tilton pedal setup with master and slave cylinders for TR3. Who knows what size piston to order? Dave ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click for free info on rehab treatments for drug & alcohol dependency. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmXaaxGA6ibYLOci1amBZKiO vdOsJCGyFPWX3p1oce20rtbE/ From budscars at msn.com Mon Oct 22 19:30:29 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:30:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] tires Message-ID: hi jim...and FOT. I believe that your tr6 racer(I assume you are talking about your racer..not your streeter) is an ex SCCA car..That means it's set up differently than an autocrosser.....As Bill said..the Big Triumphs inherently understeer.....I suggest driving your car in a NASA event to see how it works at higher speeds.. For a few hundred bucks you can spend the weekend sorting out your car....and get some seat time too Racer Bud From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Mon Oct 22 21:22:31 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:22:31 -0500 Subject: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip In-Reply-To: <000301c81511$35b1c810$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> Message-ID: <000001c81523$f7d13220$8d20b348@blake1> Anyone try using the Hatachi built HS6 from a Datsun on a TR motor? I loved the ones I had on my Z. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Stutzman Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:08 PM To: Steve Belfer; Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip leaking H6 carbs is one of the main reasons why many of us are using HS6 carbs. I am reluctant to even rebuild H6's for friends because they are probably going to leak. Dave hagenbuck at TRF has O rings to replace the cork gland washers that he says work. The jet bearing is not replaced when they are rebuilt; it is not part of the rebuild kit. It can get out of round by years of the jet rubbing against it when the choke is pulled on and off. If this has happened the cork washer won't seal. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:23 AM Subject: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip > After careful cleaning and rebuilding of my race SU carbs, the rear carb > slowly drips blue racing fuel. I'm actually at a better point now than I > was > before when both of them were drooling gasoline. I've rebuilt them twice > on > the bench and once in the car. :) I suspect the problem lies with the > small > cork "jet gland seals" that get compressed between the cupped washers. > I've > soaked these little guys in oil overnight to soften them up but perhaps my > rebuild kits are too old and they have dried out too much. There's a > "leak > proof" o-ring replacement from Moss, are these any good? > > Here are my four questions: > > 1, How tight should I go with the jet locking nut? Until the upper > (outer) > jet bearing is aligned with the bridge? As I tighten it, a tan cork seal > gets > compressed. > > 2, The jet-gland gaskets that I described above were compressed into > tight > little doughnut shapes when I took the old ones out. The new ones don't > seem > to compress very much and I think they're the cause of my leak. Will they > seal better over time as they get soaked with gas and the spring keeps > smooshing them? > > 3, The jet adjusting nut at the bottom hangs up on the spring and causes > the > jet bearing to turn when I try to tighten the nut. I added a thin washer > between the nut and the bottom of the spring. Is this okay? > > 4. All the adjustment procedures are for a 500rpm stock idle. My race car > won't do that. More like 1200rpm. Can I synchronise the carbs and adjust > the > mixture at a high idle? > > > Thanks gang. > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > stutzmans at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ablake2 at austin.rr.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 21:58:25 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:58:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tilton brake piston size In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710222058j7b93c2c3x982dbc86e001b1a3@mail.gmail.com> Having put 5/8s on my TR5 race car, after having 3/4s on my TR6 track day car, I prefer the 3/4 -- pretty hard and now stopping. Have disks up front and Morgan 7/8 cylinders on the drums in the rear, so may not be the same with a 3. Like Joe Boruch, I have Wilwood pedals on the 5, but I had Tiltons on the 6. On 10/22/07, SpiwakD at aol.com wrote: > > Am considering a Tilton pedal setup with master and slave cylinders > for TR3. > Who knows what size piston to order? > > Dave > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 22 22:34:48 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:34:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tilton brake piston size In-Reply-To: <20071022.212501.6449.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> References: <20071022.212501.6449.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: There's a lot to be said for using all the same size cylinders if you are going to have a bias bar. For one thing, you only need one spare rebuild kit for all three MC. On Oct 23, 2007, at 1:25 AM, Joe Boruch wrote: > Dave, I am on the road for the week, so can't look to see what I > have where, > but I have two 0.70 masters and one 0.75 master. I think the 0.75 > is front > and a 0.7 for clutch and the other for rear. I, however have > Jaguar 3 piston > front calipers and Wilwood rear calipers, so my car may not be a good > comparison. I went with the Wilwood pedal assembly with Tilton master > cylinders. Initially this was because the Tilton pedals were on > back order, > but after looking at them closer I liked the Wilwood ones better > for how I was > going to mount them. They also have non-slip pedals. Download the > drawings > and compare them. Joe(B) > > -- SpiwakD at aol.com wrote: > Am considering a Tilton pedal setup with master and slave cylinders > for TR3. > Who knows what size piston to order? > > Dave From chris at tr4-racing.de Tue Oct 23 00:40:18 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:40:18 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure Message-ID: <002a01c8153f$94ca2da0$6402a8c0@HOME> In season 2006 I had some engine trouble and no chance to earn eny championship points so I used the races for testing the car and tire pressures. Zandvort race: The main difference between race I and race II was trouble with the clutch. At the first race the clutch passed away during the instalation lap and after half distance of the first lap I was stuck in 3rd and could only shift with OD......the astounding thing is....that my laptimes of race I and II are only 0.2sec in difference......so without the clutch I was just a little slower. >From my point of view the tire pressure made the difference: I started the first race with 22.5 psi cold all around. The car felt very twitchy and not solid and I had the impression that I'm close to the edge to leave the tracklane on every corner. http://www.tr-competition.de/pics/video/tc-2006-74-zandvoort-1.wmv At race II I had 28.5 PSI all around. The car was very solid and easy to drive but the laptimes went down during the race....2 fast laps....then I was sliding. http://www.tr-competition.de/pics/video/tc-2006-74-zandvoort-2.wmv To settle the astounding result of tire pressures I went up with the pressure for the next event. We had a wet practise.....I went in with rain tires and a cold pressure of 30 PSI which made the car nervous. I corrected the pressure in the pits down to 25.5 which made the car pleasant to drive and gave me a 5th position on the grid. http://www.tr4-racing.de/download/tc-2006-74-saisonfin-freepractise.wmv http://www.tr4-racing.de/download/practise.wmv The race I was dry and I went in with 31.5 cold. It was okay but the car broke away on the rear very easy. No pleasure to drive. http://www.tr-competition.de/pics/video/tc-2006-74-saisonfin-1.wmv At race II I installed 34.5 to have it more clear. 2 fast laps, spin at lap 3 and then times went down and down. http://www.tr-competition.de/pics/video/tc-2006-74-saisonfin-2.wmv So I will use in future races pressures in the range of 25.5 at front and 22.5-24 at rear. Cheers Chris From jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au Tue Oct 23 01:04:14 2007 From: jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au (Jim Cun) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR2 Turbo Message-ID: <305946.41308.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> To all who have been following the progress of the TR2 Turbo we now have the final result! After making many more modifications the dyno resultes are 221 rear wheel horse power at 6200 RPM which we are very pleased with. Flywheel horse power depends on a lot of factors it could be anywhere from 270 to 290 HP. Regards Jim Sick of deleting your inbox? Yahoo!7 Mail has free unlimited storage. http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/unlimitedstorage.html From kaskas at cox.net Tue Oct 23 08:53:03 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:53:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms Message-ID: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> Thanks you to all for inquires on our situation here in Oceanside. So far everything is okay and the big fires are south of us. Over 225,000 FAMILIES have been told to get out of the area but the roads are jammed of course. The air is full of ash and smoke but so far okay. From chasgee at aol.com Tue Oct 23 10:48:25 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:48:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms In-Reply-To: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> References: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <8C9E3ABAA49450D-B88-CF0@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> As Kas stated, its pretty smoky but that's about it right now.? Since I'm downwind of Kas a couple of miles, if he's OK, I'm OK.? We're keeping our fingers crossed. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kas Kastner To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 7:53 am Subject: [Fot] Fire storms Thanks you to all for inquires on our situation here in Oceanside. So far everything is okay and the big fires are south of us. Over 225,000 FAMILIES have been told to get out of the area but the roads are jammed of course. The air is full of ash and smoke but so far okay. chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From koblinger at verizon.net Tue Oct 23 11:28:55 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:28:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Fire storms Message-ID: <32118675.2527111193160535626.JavaMail.root@vms075.mailsrvcs.net> My Dad lives in Ocean Hills and he says the same, smokey but nothing threatening. My wife's Mom had to evacuate Fallbrook yesterday so we're on pins and needles about that. Hope everyone else is safe. Kurt O. >From: chasgee at aol.com >Date: 2007/10/23 Tue AM 11:48:25 CDT >To: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Fot] Fire storms >As Kas stated, its pretty smoky but that's about it right now.? Since I'm downwind of Kas a couple of miles, if he's OK, I'm OK.? We're keeping our fingers crossed. > >Chuck > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kas Kastner >To: fot at autox.team.net >Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 7:53 am >Subject: [Fot] Fire storms > > > >Thanks you to all for inquires on our situation here in Oceanside. So far >everything is okay and the big fires are south of us. Over 225,000 FAMILIES >have been told to get out of the area but the roads are jammed of course. The >air is full of ash and smoke but so far okay. >chasgee at aol.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > >________________________________________________________________________ >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Tue Oct 23 11:56:39 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:56:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms In-Reply-To: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> References: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <20071023180015.NJDL22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> My Dad (retired Army Aviator) works at Camp Pendleton and my Uncle Larry (retired first career as an Air Force C-141 Crew Chief) recently retired for the second time from Scripps Institute of Oceanography as their Climatologist. Here is a note that Larry just sent out to family about the status in San Diego. Interesting note about the Fire "departments" stonewalling Military help. My Cousin Joe is a Fire Fighter over there and a step brother here in AZ is a fire fighter - both with a local City and with the National Guard (scheduled to go to Iraq in the Spring) ---------------------------- Everyone appears to be OK here in San Diego. So far, the fires do not appear to be threatening to either Don's apartment in the North Park area (I'm not sure of its exact geographic nomenclature) or our house here in Clairemont. I am told that Lori (and Erin?) were successfully evacuated, with animals, to El Cajon yesterday. We have not spoken with her directly. We're not sure where Joe is right now, but CALFire usually has his crew stay on duty in Temecula to provide fire suppression there while other Temecula fire fighting assets (also known as Riverside County Fire Dept and California Fire (CALFire)) are sent out of town for mutual aid. I don't know if this is his current status. In any case, Temecula does not appear to be threatened at this time. The governor has approved the use of military helicopters to assist in the fire suppression effort. This is required by state law. During the Cedars fire (four years ago), then Gov Gray Davis refused to let them assist. However, the local fire agencies are still trying to limit their impact. The military crews are ready to take off, but the local fire officials won't let them. They say they can't fly without a local fire fighter on board as an observer to coordinate drops. And they are "trying to locate" fire fighters for this role. Of course, the National Guard, Marine Corps, and the Navy all insist the choppers already have an qualified observer on board. They are called crew chiefs. And they are trained to coordinate all kinds of air drops. They do it all the time in training, in Iraq, and in Afghanistan. Not good enough, according to the fire officials. Speculation is that this has everything to do with union politics and little to do with reality. All of the military's fire fighting C-130s (all National Guard, I believe) are on their way to Southern California. They were in mission preplanning well before their use was authorized. The general in charge of them (at the National Guard Bureau?) stated that, if authorization was not received by the time the were ready to take off, that he had already scheduled a "training flight" for them that would take them to SoCal. Military can-do. Most of the other federal fire fighting aircraft are either here or on their way. The news says there are about 14 aircraft (fixed wing and rotor wing) currently making drops. More later. Larry ------------------------------------- From tsheach at pba.co.uk Tue Oct 23 12:05:59 2007 From: tsheach at pba.co.uk (tr4.tony@virgin.net) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:05:59 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms Message-ID: Glad you're all well ......! Keep smiling. I'm sending this from the roadside near London .... I've a different sort of smoke to deal with. Just had my a type od unit explode at 5000 rpm and about 100 mph .... Cockpit full of smoke to steer with ........ A good reason to drive with the window down when you're wearing a hardtop !Still picking the bits out of my left leg as I wait for the recovery truck. And I only too it to work to make me smile ...... Dont you just love TR4's ! I'm still hoping to do the Rally of the Tests next week ..... Maybe its time for a few days of work ! And hope the smell clears...... Stay safe .... ! Hope this lightens the gloom. Tony -----Original Message----- From: koblinger at verizon.net To: chasgee at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Sent: 23/10/07 18:28 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fire storms My Dad lives in Ocean Hills and he says the same, smokey but nothing threatening. My wife's Mom had to evacuate Fallbrook yesterday so we're on pins and needles about that. Hope everyone else is safe. Kurt O. >From: chasgee at aol.com >Date: 2007/10/23 Tue AM 11:48:25 CDT >To: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Fot] Fire storms >As Kas stated, its pretty smoky but that's about it right now.? Since I'm downwind of Kas a couple of miles, if he's OK, I'm OK.? We're keeping our fingers crossed. > >Chuck > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kas Kastner >To: fot at autox.team.net >Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 7:53 am >Subject: [Fot] Fire storms > > > >Thanks you to all for inquires on our situation here in Oceanside. So far >everything is okay and the big fires are south of us. Over 225,000 FAMILIES >have been told to get out of the area but the roads are jammed of course. The From dave at microworks.net Tue Oct 23 12:05:57 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:05:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Problem with cooling fuel Message-ID: <20071023180933.INCM1378.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Well scratch the idea of cooling our fuel to the point that it would make any real difference. When I answered our "race directors" question about how my pit strategy was coming and I responded with "...Going to see if we can come up with a way (inspired by Williams and BMW - hehe...) to make the distance without refueling..." He came back with... "...Too cold and the castor oil will separate out of your gas. It's happened to me at Big Willow in January and Daytona in December! Don't make me get Max Mosely in here!..." HeHeHe.... Back to the drawing board... From klynch_6 at msn.com Tue Oct 23 13:57:14 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:57:14 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms References: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> <20071023180015.NJDL22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: I've just heard units from Peterson AFB down in the 'Springs' are on their way as their aircraft are fitted with fire suppression systems. Also a group out of Wyoming are scheduled for a similar assist. Kevin RMVR ----- Original Message ----- From: David W. Riddle To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Fire storms My Dad (retired Army Aviator) works at Camp Pendleton and my Uncle Larry (retired first career as an Air Force C-141 Crew Chief) recently retired for the second time from Scripps Institute of Oceanography as their Climatologist. Here is a note that Larry just sent out to family about the status in San Diego. Interesting note about the Fire "departments" stonewalling Military help. My Cousin Joe is a Fire Fighter over there and a step brother here in AZ is a fire fighter - both with a local City and with the National Guard (scheduled to go to Iraq in the Spring) ---------------------------- Everyone appears to be OK here in San Diego. So far, the fires do not appear to be threatening to either Don's apartment in the North Park area (I'm not sure of its exact geographic nomenclature) or our house here in Clairemont. I am told that Lori (and Erin?) were successfully evacuated, with animals, to El Cajon yesterday. We have not spoken with her directly. We're not sure where Joe is right now, but CALFire usually has his crew stay on duty in Temecula to provide fire suppression there while other Temecula fire fighting assets (also known as Riverside County Fire Dept and California Fire (CALFire)) are sent out of town for mutual aid. I don't know if this is his current status. In any case, Temecula does not appear to be threatened at this time. The governor has approved the use of military helicopters to assist in the fire suppression effort. This is required by state law. During the Cedars fire (four years ago), then Gov Gray Davis refused to let them assist. However, the local fire agencies are still trying to limit their impact. The military crews are ready to take off, but the local fire officials won't let them. They say they can't fly without a local fire fighter on board as an observer to coordinate drops. And they are "trying to locate" fire fighters for this role. Of course, the National Guard, Marine Corps, and the Navy all insist the choppers already have an qualified observer on board. They are called crew chiefs. And they are trained to coordinate all kinds of air drops. They do it all the time in training, in Iraq, and in Afghanistan. Not good enough, according to the fire officials. Speculation is that this has everything to do with union politics and little to do with reality. All of the military's fire fighting C-130s (all National Guard, I believe) are on their way to Southern California. They were in mission preplanning well before their use was authorized. The general in charge of them (at the National Guard Bureau?) stated that, if authorization was not received by the time the were ready to take off, that he had already scheduled a "training flight" for them that would take them to SoCal. Military can-do. Most of the other federal fire fighting aircraft are either here or on their way. The news says there are about 14 aircraft (fixed wing and rotor wing) currently making drops. More later. Larry ------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Tue Oct 23 14:01:09 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:01:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Problem with cooling fuel In-Reply-To: <34739.17780.qm@web57613.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <20071023180933.INCM1378.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <34739.17780.qm@web57613.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20071023201454.MGYZ1433.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> That's why i signed off with "Back to the drawing board..." I would think that a kart without suspension moving around the track "should" be shaking the fuel tank sufficiently to keep the fuel mixed as long as the temp is not so cold as to make it "slush". Rules don't allow for oil injection - unlike on my SCCA Formula 500 car where it is required. At 12:45 PM 10/23/2007, you wrote: >Dave: > >If Alexander G. Bell had given up the first time he didn't get a >response to, "Can you hear me now" we wouldn't have the Internet >today. I'm sure there is a method around this dilemma, such as >installing a mixer to keep the oil and gas mixed, or oil injection >to the cylinder, or being the first person to have a race kart >powered by a diesel motor. It's nice to dream. >[] > > >Hope father and son have fun. > >Ernie > >"David W. Riddle" wrote: > >"...Too cold and the castor oil will separate out of your gas. It's >happened to me at Big Willow in January and Daytona in December! >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Tue Oct 23 14:35:56 2007 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:35:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071023153556.kucylqfgisco4scg@secure.uwalumni.com> Let's see if I've got this right: An exploded OD, a cockpit full of smoke, a disabled TR and, meanwhile, Tony sits by the roadside writing up the event for the benefit of the FOT email list, whilst picking metal bits out of his leg, waiting for the recovery truck and planning for next week's Rally. This is certainly the FOT communique of the year! Well done sir! Jim Hill From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 23 18:59:38 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:59:38 EDT Subject: [Fot] Fire storms Message-ID: In a message dated 10/23/2007 11:48:50 AM Central Daylight Time, chasgee at aol.com writes: > As Kas stated, its pretty smoky but that's about it right now.? Since I'm > downwind of Kas a couple of miles, if he's OK, I'm OK.? We're keeping our > fingers crossed. > > Chuck > > I just spent the day with some folks from SoCal....one is in no danger, but the smoke is so bad he is living in hotel. From gasket.works at verizon.net Tue Oct 23 19:09:28 2007 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Gasket Works USA) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:09:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] fire quenching Message-ID: <29833139.848471193188168978.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net> > From my limited perspective the way to put out a fire is remove the oxygen and reduce the heat. What about a limited aerial device that knocks "out the air" from a fire followed up immediately by a quenching water (or some such) drop to prevent re-ignition... granted the pressure wave can destroy as well but, in areas that are inaccessable ....who cares. The animals likely have already scampered away. mordy M.N.Dunst Gasket Works USA, LLC gmt-8 Pacific time 626.358.1616 voice 626.628.3777 fax From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 23 19:48:47 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:48:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Fire storms... now Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. Message-ID: In a message dated 10/23/2007 8:45:50 PM Central Daylight Time, N197TR4 writes: > > Tony's message has to be a kind of classic in our World of Triumphs. > > He should also be one of our Honored Guests at Watkins Glen. > > I am glad he is not upside down and saying, "well that sucks", like the > other Tony did while hanging from his harness at the Carousel. > > Return-path: From: N197TR4 at cs.com Full-name: N197TR4 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:45:50 EDT Subject: Fire storms... now Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. To: tsheach at pba.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 6.0 for Windows XP sub 50 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Tony's message has to be a kind of classic in our World of Triumphs. He should also be one of our Honored Guests at Watkins Glen. I am glad he is not upside down and saying, "well that sucks", like the other Tony did while hanging from his harness at the Carousel. > I'm sending this from the roadside near London .... I've a different sort of > smoke to deal with. Just had my a type od unit explode at 5000 rpm and about > 100 mph .... Cockpit full of smoke to steer with ........ A good reason to > drive with the window down when you're wearing a hardtop !Still picking the > bits out of my left leg as I wait for the recovery truck. And I only too it > to > work to make me smile ...... Dont you just love TR4's ! > > From trmarty at hotmail.com Tue Oct 23 19:54:53 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:54:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Triumph roll bar / cage concepts Message-ID: Hi folks. I am contemplating the addition of real rollover protection in the TR6 over the upcoming winter. As I have looked at you folk's cars over the years I have seen some different approaches to bar/cage fabrication. I should have been taking pictures but I didn't. Any chance you have some digital pictures of your bars/cages you could email me to get the thought process rolling? Thanks, Marty Sukey _________________________________________________________________ Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailne ws From fasttrs at mindspring.com Tue Oct 23 20:45:29 2007 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 22:45:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] SCCA Prodfest at VIR Message-ID: <003201c815e7$f07ad6b0$6401a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> Well it looks like I have everything on the car sorted out.(Yeah right!) We will be headed to VIR this weekend. The Prodfest is like the runoff's for all the SCCA production class cars and has been growing every year. We had 35 cars last year and so far have over 55 cars entered this year. There will be 3 past and present SCCA national champions there. Will there be any other FOT's there? Mike Munson From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 23 21:15:24 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:15:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Triumph roll bar / cage concepts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For what it's worth, here's a photo of Peyote's cage. Somewhere I have photos with the body off. It's actually a very good design and if you can get away with it would give you an incredibly stiff car. All the tubing is .060, which is not a good thing. It's fortunate that I never put it on it's lid, because I'm not sure the bar would have held. The new version will be .095 on the main hoop and hoop supports as well as the driver intrusion bar, and the rest will be . 060. It will weigh about the same because I'm using slightly smaller diameter tubing. On Oct 23, 2007, at 6:54 PM, marty sukey wrote: > Hi folks. I am contemplating the addition of real rollover > protection in the [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type multipart/appledouble] > TR6 over the upcoming winter. As I have looked at you folk's cars > over the > years I have seen some different approaches to bar/cage > fabrication. I should > have been taking pictures but I didn't. Any chance you have some > digital > pictures of your bars/cages you could email me to get the thought > process > rolling? > > Thanks, > Marty Sukey > > _________________________________________________________________ > Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live > OneCare! > http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx? > s_cid=wl_hotmailne > ws > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Oct 24 04:17:47 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 06:17:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] Classic Motorsports magazine wall calendar Message-ID: Sorry about the commercial message, but heck, I am a good citizen of the board and supporter of all things Triumph. Plus, we are giivng away calendars again. This year we have a TR3 (not mine) on the calendar. To check it out go to the website below. Thanks. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 Here's the offical mumbo jumbo... Free 2008 wall calendar from Classic Motorsports. Featuring some of the coolest cars and best photography from Classic Motorsports magazine, this 2008 calendar is available free to all Classic Motorsports subscribers. Chock-full of a year's worth of eye candy for your office or garage this high quality calendar measures a full 10" x 17" when open. Each month features a brilliant, full-color photo of one of your favorite classic cars, including favorites from MG, Triumph, Alfa Romeo and Porsche, along with some more unusual picks, like the Lang-Cooper vintage racer, the Isetta microcar and the "Hollywood" Sunbeam Tiger. The 2008 Classic Motorsports calendar is only available for free until Nov 13th. To see if your favorite car is on this calendar or to make sure you get a copy please visit http://classicmotorsports.net/calendar/ Not ready to subscribe? You can still purchase this calendar from the Classic Motorsports Store at https://ssl.grmotorsports.com/grm-store.php for a limited time. And if you would like to order bulk copies for your club, give us a call at 888-676-9747 for special pricing. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From tsheach at pba.co.uk Wed Oct 24 06:53:12 2007 From: tsheach at pba.co.uk (tr4.tony@virgin.net) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:53:12 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Fire storms... now Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. Message-ID: Aw shucks ...... Now you're embarassing me ....... I was just killing time until the low loader arrived to scoop me up and also trying to keep my oily fingers warm ....! But I do hope to see you all at the Glen. As a little footnote: the damage to the gearbox is huge, propshaft shredded, overdrive unit was spread over about 200 m of her majesty's highway around a uniforn trail of new millers gearbox oil ..... But my laptop bag caught most of the big bits (thanks DELL ..... I knew if was expensive for a reason) and the fibreglass reinforced tunnel, speedo cable a old seatbelt that I glued inside it held the rest in place until I got out of hyperspace ..... So I'd recommend a prop / output shaft catcher to any one. Now using 3VC again on ROTT next week so listen for the howls of protest as the old girl does her thing and (hopefully) brings home a bootful of trophies for the third year in succession. Regards and go steady. Tony -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: 24/10/07 02:48 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Fire storms... now Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. In a message dated 10/23/2007 8:45:50 PM Central Daylight Time, N197TR4 writes: > > Tony's message has to be a kind of classic in our World of Triumphs. > > He should also be one of our Honored Guests at Watkins Glen. > > I am glad he is not upside down and saying, "well that sucks", like the > other Tony did while hanging from his harness at the Carousel. > > Return-path: From: N197TR4 at cs.com Full-name: N197TR4 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:45:50 EDT Subject: Fire storms... now Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. To: tsheach at pba.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 6.0 for Windows XP sub 50 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 24 06:58:15 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 08:58:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend Message-ID: let us know how you and 3VC do.... > Aw shucks ...... Now you're embarassing me ....... I was just killing time > until the low loader arrived to scoop me up and also trying to keep my oily > fingers warm ....! But I do hope to see you all at the Glen. > > As a little footnote: the damage to the gearbox is huge, propshaft shredded, > overdrive unit was spread over about 200 m of her majesty's highway around a > uniforn trail of new millers gearbox oil ..... But my laptop bag caught most > of the big bits (thanks DELL ..... I knew if was expensive for a reason) and > the fibreglass reinforced tunnel, speedo cable a old seatbelt that I glued > inside it held the rest in place until I got out of hyperspace ..... So I'd > recommend a prop / output shaft catcher to any one. > > Now using 3VC again on ROTT next week so listen for the howls of protest as > the old girl does her thing and (hopefully) brings home a bootful of trophies > for the third year in succession. > > Regards and go steady. > > Tony > > From TSheach at pba.co.uk Wed Oct 24 07:06:31 2007 From: TSheach at pba.co.uk (Tony Sheach) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:06:31 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBFF9847DB8E446AD5BA723E412305805749544@cbh-srv-exc.PBA.INT> Will do ...... Were starting number 18 of 85 and it's a round of the International FIA Regularity Championship this year, so a top 20 finish would be good going. A repeat performance of our fun last year would be a big result for Rob and I. The sportscar class looks fun though ...... 8 or 9 TR's, all friends to play with ..... Lots of Alfa's, Porsche's and Volvo 122 and 123's in too, so plenty competition on the quick stuff. Kind regards Tony Tony Sheach Partner Peter Brett Associates Caversham Bridge House Waterman Place Reading Berkshire RG1 8DN Tel: +44 (0) 118 950 0761 Fax: +44 (0) 118 959 7498 Mob: +44 (0) 7771 820 730 Web: www.pba.co.uk E: tsheach at pba.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com [mailto:N197TR4 at cs.com] Sent: 24 October 2007 13:58 To: Tony Sheach; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend let us know how you and 3VC do.... Aw shucks ...... Now you're embarassing me ....... I was just killing time until the low loader arrived to scoop me up and also trying to keep my oily fingers warm ....! But I do hope to see you all at the Glen. As a little footnote: the damage to the gearbox is huge, propshaft shredded, overdrive unit was spread over about 200 m of her majesty's highway around a uniforn trail of new millers gearbox oil ..... But my laptop bag caught most of the big bits (thanks DELL ..... I knew if was expensive for a reason) and the fibreglass reinforced tunnel, speedo cable a old seatbelt that I glued inside it held the rest in place until I got out of hyperspace ..... So I'd recommend a prop / output shaft catcher to any one. Now using 3VC again on ROTT next week so listen for the howls of protest as the old girl does her thing and (hopefully) brings home a bootful of trophies for the third year in succession. Regards and go steady. Tony ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl _ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email is used as a convenient medium for rapid data transfer. Any contractual correspondence sent or received by email will not be held to be such unless and until it is received in writing by a Fax or Letter. Likewise file attachments must be treated as uncontrolled documents until issued as hard copy. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this email please notify the author by replying to this email and delete the email. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use or disclose, print or rely on this email. Any OS Data attached to this email is issued in accordance with Licence No. 100017583 under condition that it is used to plot once and not retained on the recipients computer system. The Partnership accepts no liability for the contents of emails unconnected with the affairs of the firm or its clients. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl - www.blackspider.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 24 07:22:14 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:22:14 EDT Subject: [Fot] Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend Message-ID: Thanks Tony. I suspect most of us enjoy these reports. Joe A > Will do ...... Were starting number 18 of 85 and it's a round of the > International FIA Regularity Championship this year, so a top 20 finish > would be good going. A repeat performance of our fun last year would be > a big result for Rob and I. > > The sportscar class looks fun though ...... 8 or 9 TR's, all friends to > play with ..... Lots of Alfa's, Porsche's and Volvo 122 and 123's in > too, so plenty competition on the quick stuff. > > > Kind regards > > Tony > From TSheach at pba.co.uk Wed Oct 24 07:22:09 2007 From: TSheach at pba.co.uk (Tony Sheach) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:22:09 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBFF9847DB8E446AD5BA723E4123058057495BF@cbh-srv-exc.PBA.INT> ** YOU'LL NEED PANDO TO OPEN THIS ATTACHMENT. ** ** Get Pando free here: www.pando.com/download ** Here's one from last year ....... Passed the MGB no long outside the start control, I recall overhauling a Cooper S and something else before the finish ..... Kind regards Tony Tony Sheach Partner Peter Brett Associates Caversham Bridge House Waterman Place Reading Berkshire RG1 8DN Tel: +44 (0) 118 950 0761 Fax: +44 (0) 118 959 7498 Mob: +44 (0) 7771 820 730 Web: www.pba.co.uk E: tsheach at pba.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com [mailto:N197TR4 at cs.com] Sent: 24 October 2007 13:58 To: Tony Sheach; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend let us know how you and 3VC do.... Aw shucks ...... Now you're embarassing me ....... I was just killing time until the low loader arrived to scoop me up and also trying to keep my oily fingers warm ....! But I do hope to see you all at the Glen. As a little footnote: the damage to the gearbox is huge, propshaft shredded, overdrive unit was spread over about 200 m of her majesty's highway around a uniforn trail of new millers gearbox oil ..... But my laptop bag caught most of the big bits (thanks DELL ..... I knew if was expensive for a reason) and the fibreglass reinforced tunnel, speedo cable a old seatbelt that I glued inside it held the rest in place until I got out of hyperspace ..... So I'd recommend a prop / output shaft catcher to any one. Now using 3VC again on ROTT next week so listen for the howls of protest as the old girl does her thing and (hopefully) brings home a bootful of trophies for the third year in succession. Regards and go steady. Tony ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl < http://www.blackspider.com/> _ Pando is free software that lets you email large files and folders, up to 1GB, with your existing email account. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email is used as a convenient medium for rapid data transfer. Any contractual correspondence sent or received by email will not be held to be such unless and until it is received in writing by a Fax or Letter. Likewise file attachments must be treated as uncontrolled documents until issued as hard copy. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this email please notify the author by replying to this email and delete the email. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use or disclose, print or rely on this email. Any OS Data attached to this email is issued in accordance with Licence No. 100017583 under condition that it is used to plot once and not retained on the recipients computer system. The Partnership accepts no liability for the contents of emails unconnected with the affairs of the firm or its clients. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl - www.blackspider.com [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of 19-RT6_1351.jpg.pando] From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 24 08:17:27 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:17:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 roll cage Message-ID: Marty Sukey asked: > Any chance you have some digital > pictures of your bars/cages you could email me to get the thought process > rolling? Marty, Look at http://hottr6.blogspot.com/, specifically the posts for Jan-May 2006. Click on the pictures for a larger view. This cage would not pass inspection for dedicated racers because the front hoop is not high enough, but it will work for auto-X and hill climbs and track days. Fitting the front hoop behind the heater box (so I could stay toasty on cold days) was not as hard as it looks, but did require perseverance. Defrosting the windshield is not as efficient as with stock and I am still working on fabricating a fix. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From SpiwakD at aol.com Wed Oct 24 13:05:34 2007 From: SpiwakD at aol.com (SpiwakD at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:05:34 EDT Subject: [Fot] Rick Rock please email spiwakd@aol.com Message-ID: ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net Wed Oct 24 15:11:09 2007 From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR3 steering box Message-ID: <380-220071032421119315@earthlink.net> I am looking for a steering box assembly for a TR3 with the split column that is very good or excellent condition . Would appreciate any input on this matter...thanks Chip U K MOTORSPORTS tr6racer21 at earthlink.net From Group44TR7 at aol.com Wed Oct 24 15:52:21 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:52:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] Jerry Barker Please Contact Me Offline Message-ID: Please contact me with telephone number. Regards, Cary ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From jibjib at att.net Wed Oct 24 19:02:57 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:02:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Classic Motorsports magazine wall calendar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <012201c816a2$c90e9bf0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Whoa, look at this wasted blatant capitalism. Tim, I think we all already subscribe. I know I am looking forward to both calendars, although the CM calendar gets the place of honor. Jack (known as Jack on your forums) -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 3:18 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Classic Motorsports magazine wall calendar Sorry about the commercial message, but heck, I am a good citizen of the board and supporter of all things Triumph. Plus, we are giivng away calendars again. This year we have a TR3 (not mine) on the calendar. To check it out go to the website below. Thanks. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 Here's the offical mumbo jumbo... Free 2008 wall calendar from Classic Motorsports. Featuring some of the coolest cars and best photography from Classic Motorsports magazine, this 2008 calendar is available free to all Classic Motorsports subscribers. Chock-full of a year's worth of eye candy for your office or garage this high quality calendar measures a full 10" x 17" when open. Each month features a brilliant, full-color photo of one of your favorite classic cars, including favorites from MG, Triumph, Alfa Romeo and Porsche, along with some more unusual picks, like the Lang-Cooper vintage racer, the Isetta microcar and the "Hollywood" Sunbeam Tiger. The 2008 Classic Motorsports calendar is only available for free until Nov 13th. To see if your favorite car is on this calendar or to make sure you get a copy please visit http://classicmotorsports.net/calendar/ Not ready to subscribe? You can still purchase this calendar from the Classic Motorsports Store at https://ssl.grmotorsports.com/grm-store.php for a limited time. And if you would like to order bulk copies for your club, give us a call at 888-676-9747 for special pricing. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com jibjib at att.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gasket.works at gte.net Wed Oct 24 23:07:48 2007 From: gasket.works at gte.net (res00cbl) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:07:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] a few new uploads... References: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20071020013257.VGFV13814.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <00c501c812c8$9ec68a70$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <000301c816c4$fd1bfc90$2502a8c0@SPARTAN113> http://fot-racing.com/eventphoto/index.html Winner at the Miller event Mr. Chuck Gee. http://fot-racing.com/ cool photo... drool. M. Dunst Gasket Works USA, llC 626.358.1616 phone 626.628.3777 facsimile gmt -8 Pacific From gasket.works at gte.net Wed Oct 24 23:14:14 2007 From: gasket.works at gte.net (Mordy Dunst/Gasket Works) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:14:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] a few new uploads... References: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20071020013257.VGFV13814.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <00c501c812c8$9ec68a70$0a10c548@RW> <000301c816c4$fd1bfc90$2502a8c0@SPARTAN113> Message-ID: <000c01c816c5$e35c3b20$2502a8c0@SPARTAN113> http://fot-racing.com/eventphoto/index.html Winner at the Miller event Mr. Chuck Gee. http://fot-racing.com/ cool photo... drool. M. Dunst Gasket Works USA, llC 626.358.1616 phone 626.628.3777 facsimile gmt -8 Pacific From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 25 05:23:57 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:23:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] a few new uploads... Message-ID: Terrific! Lot of memories through the whole link..... All been worthwhile. More to come. From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 25 08:51:23 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:51:23 EDT Subject: [Fot] Paging Joe Guinan.... Message-ID: Joe, Steve Smith is looking for you and has important information for you. I also have something for you, too. Joe A From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 25 12:47:00 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:47:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] paging Steve Benford Message-ID: I need a response from him or his email address. Thanks, Joe A From Group44TR7 at aol.com Fri Oct 26 10:58:22 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:58:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Test Message-ID: Have not received FOT emails since early on 10/25. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Fri Oct 26 13:40:50 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:40:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Do tire temperatures tell most of the tire pressure story? Message-ID: <000001c81808$1d4ade70$171a694c@computer> I am dealing with autocross temps and pressures but imagine it would be similar for the race course. On my TR6, I have adjusted alignment to where I have my tire temperatures pretty uniform (within 5 - 7 degrees) across each tire. If I am running 31 lbs front and 29 lbs rear and my tire temperatures are 12 to 15 degrees cooler in the back of the car than the front, would that indicate that I could use less pressure in the rear (as long as the tires don't roll over). In other words, is uniform tire temperature all the way around optimum? Thanks guys, Jim Hearn Sacramento, CA Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From RYoung at navcomtech.com Fri Oct 26 14:41:10 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:41:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Do tire temperatures tell most of the tire pressure story? In-Reply-To: <000001c81808$1d4ade70$171a694c@computer> References: <000001c81808$1d4ade70$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: > In other words, is uniform tire > temperature all the way around optimum? Jim, I'm certainly no expert, and I'm very interested in what others have to say on this subject. But my instinct is that I wouldn't expect temperatures to be the same front/rear, due to differing conditions (especially more weight up front). Randall fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From spitlist at cox.net Fri Oct 26 15:19:22 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:19:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Do tire temperatures tell most of the tire pressure story? References: <000001c81808$1d4ade70$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <005201c81815$e122e740$2d02a8c0@Belkin> Jim, A lot of it is determined by the tires themselves. When I was doing heavy SCCA autocross on slicks, I was running pressures around 20 psi all around. You will know if the pressure is incorrect if you are getting a variance of temperature across the tread. If the temps are higher on the inside than on the outside, reduce the pressuer until it is even. Conversely, if you are getting higher temps on the edges, you shoule raise the pressure. Street tires are a bit dirrerent in that unless you are running higher than normal pressures, you might get rolling of the edges. So check the wear on the sidewalls and if it is obvious that the tires are rolling over, you will have to raise the pressure to compensate even if your temperature readings say otherwise. One other thing that will cause temperature variences back to front is how the car is working. If you are throwing it heavily into turns it will cause therears to slide and increase the temp. Front tires work more naturally in turns than rears so higher temps are likely. I hope this helps. Joe C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:40 PM Subject: [Fot] Do tire temperatures tell most of the tire pressure story? > I am dealing with autocross temps and pressures but imagine it would be > similar for the race course. On my TR6, I have adjusted alignment to where > I have my tire temperatures pretty uniform (within 5 - 7 degrees) across > each tire. If I am running 31 lbs front and 29 lbs rear and my tire > temperatures are 12 to 15 degrees cooler in the back of the car than the > front, would that indicate that I could use less pressure in the rear (as > long as the tires don't roll over). In other words, is uniform tire > temperature all the way around optimum? > > Thanks guys, > > Jim Hearn > Sacramento, CA > Two '74 TR6s > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spreiss at verizon.net Fri Oct 26 00:54:25 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:54:25 +1100 Subject: [Fot] head selection. Message-ID: <002a01c8179d$0c60bd70$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> FOT I am preparing to build a high performance engine for use in my 56 TR3. Not a fully tweaked one, but one that I can take to drivers school in the spring and begin to campaign in vintage events. (Plans include updating to modified TR4 front suspension and TR6 brakes as well.) I have purchased a bare block and crank sourced from a TR4A to serve as the basis for the engine build. Question is, what is the preferred head for my application? I plan to do some mild porting and use the larger than stock valves. I have a set of the short-throated HS6s and a 4A intake manifold I'm hoping to use. Does anyone know if this will result in a hood clearance issue? I would like to make an intake plenum with ducted remote filter, though I suspect this would not be allowed by most vintage racing sanctioning bodies. Additional comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks! Steve Preiss From Gt6steve at aol.com Fri Oct 26 18:36:06 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:36:06 EDT Subject: [Fot] SoCal fires diminishing? Message-ID: Sorry to annoy our eastern brethren, This missive is for the Western FOT. Anybody heard from Allen and Alita? How 'bout Mizutani? I think he's OK. Is everybody OK? Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Oct 26 20:09:32 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:09:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] SoCal fires diminishing? References: Message-ID: <006a01c8183e$6a12b8f0$0200a8c0@Desktop> You guys just keep on talking......that's keeping us up to date to Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 8:36 PM Subject: [Fot] SoCal fires diminishing? > Sorry to annoy our eastern brethren, This missive is for the Western FOT. > > Anybody heard from Allen and Alita? How 'bout Mizutani? I think he's OK. > Is everybody OK? Steve > > > ************************************** > See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Fri Oct 26 21:30:03 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 21:30:03 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4722B0BB.5030809@bradakis.com> A LOT of the AOL subscribers on my lists are not getting any mail, it is getting bounced back. I'm hoping I can find some tech folks at AOL with more than 3 working brain cells so the problem can get resolved as soon as possible. mjb. From spitlist at cox.net Fri Oct 26 21:35:30 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:35:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Test In-Reply-To: <4722B0BB.5030809@bradakis.com> References: <4722B0BB.5030809@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <000e01c8184a$6c500850$2202a8c0@newcomputer> I saw an article in yesterday's Tucson paper that stated that AOL (which has a major facility here) is laying off a number of people. That reduces your chances of finding anyone that meets your requirements. Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J. Bradakis Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 8:30 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Test A LOT of the AOL subscribers on my lists are not getting any mail, it is getting bounced back. I'm hoping I can find some tech folks at AOL with more than 3 working brain cells so the problem can get resolved as soon as possible. mjb. spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sat Oct 27 07:07:02 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 08:07:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Burned out TR6's , Chris Bain and Victoria Fox Message-ID: <002c01c8189a$448d72d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> A local clubmember shared this with me. I am not sure if the picture of the cars destroyed and the people found deceased, Chris Bain and Victoria Fox, are connected. This article is from yesterday's NY Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/us/26dead.html?ref=todayspaper Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sat Oct 27 08:08:20 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:08:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] head selection. In-Reply-To: <002a01c8179d$0c60bd70$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> References: <002a01c8179d$0c60bd70$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: <200710271406.l9RE6Nq0490883@ns3.geneseo.net> At 01:54 AM 10/26/2007, you wrote: >FOT >I am preparing to build a high performance engine for use in my 56 TR3. Not a >fully tweaked one, but one that I can take to drivers school in the spring and >begin to campaign in vintage events. (Plans include updating to modified TR4 >front suspension and TR6 brakes as well.) >I have purchased a bare block and crank sourced from a TR4A to serve as the >basis for the engine build. Question is, what is the preferred head for my >application? I plan to do some mild porting and use the larger than stock >valves. The heads are virtually identical with the exception of the intake port diameter at the manifold face of the head. Both new and old heads flow about the same on the flow bench, despite the common general opinion that the later small port head flows better. Even with significant porting work, the big port head and small port head can flow about the same. However, you should use a head late enough that it has a flat on the bottom side of the front water outlet to clear the water pump housing. The really early heads require a LOT of grinding there. > I have a set of the short-throated HS6s and a 4A intake manifold I'm >hoping to use. Does anyone know if this will result in a hood clearance issue? This combination does not craeate a hood interference. Since the carbs are shorter and the manifold longer, the carbs end up in the same place. >I would like to make an intake plenum with ducted remote filter, though I >suspect this would not be allowed by most vintage racing sanctioning bodies. Sanctioning bodies vary in their view of this. >Additional comments or suggestions would be appreciated. >Thanks! >Steve Preiss Good luck with your project! >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From Gt6steve at aol.com Sat Oct 27 08:55:29 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:55:29 EDT Subject: [Fot] What color's your chassis? Message-ID: Opinions solicited...For the racer, do you like the frame black, body color or machinery gray? I think gray is common on formula cars to expose cracks? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From Fubog1 at aol.com Sat Oct 27 09:18:39 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:18:39 EDT Subject: [Fot] What color's your chassis? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/27/2007 10:55:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Gt6steve at aol.com writes: I think gray is common on formula cars to expose cracks? ...in a perfect world EVERYTHING would be machinery gray! g. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sat Oct 27 10:05:01 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:05:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Would your evac plans involve the triumph Message-ID: <000801c818b3$21c79640$0501000a@Chowdown> If, let's say your home was under threat of fire, which as a CA resident I did consider at one point or another, would you make sure to get the car onto the trailer and take it with you? From S.Janzen at comcast.net Sat Oct 27 10:21:41 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:21:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Would your evac plans involve the triumph References: <000801c818b3$21c79640$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <004101c818b5$7578d720$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Funny, looking at those photos of people camped out at the stadium, my thought was that I would take my trailer and live in it. However, given enough time, I'd probably load in the car and then unload it when I got to somewhere to camp out. Others in my household might have different opinions about what to load in the trailer from the house though. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 12:05 PM Subject: [Fot] Would your evac plans involve the triumph > If, let's say your home was under threat of fire, which as a CA resident I > did > consider at one point or another, would you make sure to get the car onto > the > trailer and take it with you? > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jmwagner at greenheart.com Sat Oct 27 12:10:25 2007 From: jmwagner at greenheart.com (Justin Wagner) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:10:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Passing this along - "Used Camshaft for TR6 and TR250 S2 Kastner $50" Message-ID: <47237F11.50802@greenheart.com> http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/pts/460811836.html Reply to: sale-460811836 at craigslist.org Date: 2007-10-26, 5:42PM PDT Two Original Fuel Pumps with Lever [TR6].$25.Triumph Badge for TR250 trunk lid,unused,$30 TR3 Speedo and Tach $50 each...TR3 Original Fan Assembly $35..Used Camshaft for TR6 and TR250 S2 Kastner $50 * Location: Tujunga CA * it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests PostingID: 460811836 From jfrymark at aol.com Sat Oct 27 12:29:16 2007 From: jfrymark at aol.com (John Frymark) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:29:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racecar evacuation Message-ID: <527083C8-C784-4CB1-A94E-28F78DCA3970@aol.com> My thoughts: Insure the car for a declared value needed to buy a replacement. In the event of fire, grab all the spares and pit equipment that won't tolerate "heat treating". You will never get fair reimbursement for these things John Frymark PS. Alan Mitzutani is OK. From tr4.tony at virgin.net Sat Oct 27 12:42:08 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:42:08 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Racecar evacuation References: <527083C8-C784-4CB1-A94E-28F78DCA3970@aol.com> Message-ID: <001401c818c9$14b330c0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> any more from Kas ? all ok with you ? rgds Tony ps ..... now prepping 2nd entry for ROTT .....we also have 3 blue TR4's entering as a team ..... suggestions for names ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frymark" To: "steve Belfer" ; "Steve Smith" Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 7:29 PM Subject: [Fot] Racecar evacuation > My thoughts: Insure the car for a declared value needed to buy a > replacement. In the event of fire, grab all the spares and pit > equipment that won't tolerate "heat treating". You will never get > fair reimbursement for these things > > John Frymark > > PS. Alan Mitzutani is OK. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > tr4.tony at virgin.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chasgee at aol.com Sat Oct 27 13:18:49 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:18:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] SoCal fires diminishing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9E6E55638A69C-B58-73@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> Everyone is fine.? Allen and Aleta can't get back to their house until Sunday or Monday, but they do have a house to get back to. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 5:36 pm Subject: [Fot] SoCal fires diminishing? Sorry to annoy our eastern brethren, This missive is for the Western FOT. Anybody heard from Allen and Alita? How 'bout Mizutani? I think he's OK. Is everybody OK? Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From kaskas at cox.net Sat Oct 27 13:32:53 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:32:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racecar evacuation References: <527083C8-C784-4CB1-A94E-28F78DCA3970@aol.com> <001401c818c9$14b330c0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Message-ID: <000701c818d0$2b42ee50$0a10c548@RW> Everything is fine here. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TR4Tony" To: "John Frymark" ; "steve Belfer" ; "Steve Smith" Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Racecar evacuation > any more from Kas ? all ok with you ? > rgds > Tony > > ps ..... now prepping 2nd entry for ROTT .....we also have 3 blue TR4's > entering as a team ..... suggestions for names ? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Frymark" > To: "steve Belfer" ; "Steve Smith" > > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 7:29 PM > Subject: [Fot] Racecar evacuation > > >> My thoughts: Insure the car for a declared value needed to buy a >> replacement. In the event of fire, grab all the spares and pit >> equipment that won't tolerate "heat treating". You will never get >> fair reimbursement for these things >> >> John Frymark >> >> PS. Alan Mitzutani is OK. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> tr4.tony at virgin.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sat Oct 27 13:35:56 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:35:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Passing this along - "Used Camshaft for TR6 and TR250 S2 Kastner $50" References: <47237F11.50802@greenheart.com> Message-ID: <001101c818d0$98124ee0$0a10c548@RW> That S-2 camshaft if one of my original parts (my name is stamped on the back of the rear bearing journal) would be a great core to use for a bigger cam as it was ground from a blank factory core and has full size lobes. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Wagner" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:10 AM Subject: [Fot] Passing this along - "Used Camshaft for TR6 and TR250 S2 Kastner $50" > http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/pts/460811836.html > > Reply to: sale-460811836 at craigslist.org > > Date: 2007-10-26, 5:42PM PDT > > > Two Original Fuel Pumps with Lever [TR6].$25.Triumph Badge for TR250 > trunk lid,unused,$30 TR3 Speedo and Tach $50 each...TR3 Original Fan > Assembly $35..Used Camshaft for TR6 and TR250 S2 Kastner $50 > > > > > > > > * Location: Tujunga CA > * it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other > commercial interests > > > PostingID: 460811836 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Oct 27 13:51:09 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:51:09 EDT Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn--FoT Host Hotel for the Glen 2008 (hotel proposal forthcoming) Message-ID: FoT, I put in for 'request for proposal' based on reserving (10) rooms at the Hampton Inn in Painted Post, New York. I should have a response within a couple of days. Two of these rooms are spoken for. If you wanted to be included on this list, please let me know. The cost will be about $100/per night. Most rooms will have two beds (shared expenses?) Sidebar comment: The list of attendees has gotten impressive, in number and names. Thanks! Joe Alexander From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 27 14:13:07 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:13:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn--FoT Host Hotel for the Glen 2008 (hotel proposal forthcoming) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <217820.18583.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Joe: Not to step on your parade, but someone had indicated there was a potential for renting camping trailers for the weekend. Anyone know anything more on this? Thanks, Ernie N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT, I put in for 'request for proposal' based on reserving (10) rooms at the Hampton Inn in Painted Post, New York. I should have a response within a couple of days. Two of these rooms are spoken for. If you wanted to be included on this list, please let me know. The cost will be about $100/per night. Most rooms will have two beds (shared expenses?) Sidebar comment: The list of attendees has gotten impressive, in number and names. Thanks! Joe Alexander ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Group44TR7 at aol.com Sat Oct 27 14:34:04 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 16:34:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Motorsport Library/Museum Message-ID: About a year ago I sent in an inquiry to them about the first SCCA national held at Watkins Glen. They just very recently responded to the inquiry that they had some information and photographs from the specific event. I responded with a inquiry about how to get copies of information, no response has come from my inquiry. Anyone have past experience dealing with this organization? CP ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From cak at dimebank.com Sat Oct 27 14:37:41 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Would your evac plans involve the triumph Message-ID: <200710272037.l9RKbf1t015544@moose.dimebank.com> I saw a photo yesterday (I think) in the NYT that showed a burned down house, and in front of it were the easily recognizable remains of a TR6 and a TR4 or 4A ... yes, here it is. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/us/26dead.html These folks had more to worry about than their Triumphs, I fear - though they might have been trying to evacuate them. From jmwagner at greenheart.com Sat Oct 27 15:52:19 2007 From: jmwagner at greenheart.com (Justin Wagner) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:52:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 1952 Triumph Renown Seller seeks Assistance In pricing Car Message-ID: <4723B312.2080405@greenheart.com> I've been in contact with this seller, via e-mail, and he was having difficulty pricing the car. I am not very familiar with Renowns, so I was of no help. If anyone has experience with these cars or is an interested buyer, here is his info below. (I do not know the seller and I have not seen the car.) --Justin SELLER INFO: David Sells 1952 Triumph Renown ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Reply to: sale-459961746 at craigslist.org Date: 2007-10-25, 9:22PM PDT 1952 Triumph Renown in excellent conditioned....garaged for years...previous owner was Brian Ahearn's father.... LINK to his ad on Craigs List: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/car/459961746.html From alfetta95 at optonline.net Sat Oct 27 16:15:29 2007 From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (alfetta95 at optonline.net) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:15:29 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Fot] What color's your chassis? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I went white on the frame. Saw a pic in some book and thought it looked cool. Black suspension parts. Good looking until first "off" then who cares. Todd Redmond ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com Date: Saturday, October 27, 2007 10:55 am Subject: [Fot] What color's your chassis? To: FOT at autox.team.net > Opinions solicited...For the racer, do you like the frame black, > body color > or machinery gray? I think gray is common on formula cars to > expose cracks? > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > alfetta95 at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Herald948 at aol.com Sat Oct 27 17:42:44 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:42:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] What color's your chassis? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/27/2007 10:55:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Gt6 steve at aol.com writes: Opinions solicited...For the racer, do you like the frame black, body color or machinery gray? I think gray is common on formula cars to expose cracks? ==AM== ISTR that many of the "Works" Triumphs (particularly Le Mans Spitfires) had white or light grey frames at least in part for this very purpose. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From trhouse at greenapple.com Sat Oct 27 20:01:20 2007 From: trhouse at greenapple.com (Tom Householder) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:01:20 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Dorothy Deen, March 28, 1922 - October 23, 2007 Message-ID: I just recieved this from Jonathan Stien, Dorothy and Jim were on my mind this week with the fires . I'd checked the maps to see that they were out of it all. Sincereley a couple of the finest people I have ever met. Tom Householder For Immediate Release Contact: Jonathan A. Stein 610/779-9710 610/779-3705 fax American British Car Legend Dies Dorothy Deen, March 28, 1922 - October 23, 2007 Oceanside California, October 23, 2007. As raging wildfires threatened her Southern California home, Dorothy Deen Sitz died in a nearby Oceanside hospital after a long illness. The vivacious blonde Deen was best known for the Doretti sports car, a line of sports car accessories of the same name and for importing Triumph Sports cars for the Western United States. A darling of the local and automotive press, she was a common fixture at races and promoting the sports cars she sold. Born in Hollywood, Calif., to engineer and businessman Arthur Andersen and Martha Schultz Andersen, Dorothy grew up in a time when women either stayed home with children or worked as secretaries and telephone operators. At an early age, Dorothy Andersen had other ideas. Her career started as a teenager test driving the Whizzer motor bicycles her father had redesigned. She graduated to a mail order business selling gasoline model airplane engines her father also designed and manufactured. Growing up in Los Angeles, Dorothy had always been interested in cars, but the interest really took off in 1950 when she took delivery of a brand new Ivory MG TD, which was followed by several sporty Simcas. Instantly, she was propelled into a world of rallies, clubs and races. Although her later business interests prevented her from racing, she and her father often ran their cars on an abandoned airfield near the Andersen beach house. The next business venture forever changed Dorothy9s life. Unable to find high-quality accessories for her MG and her father9s Morgans, the pair designed and marketed their own wind wings, sun visors, luggage racks, valve covers in addition to wood and aluminum steering wheels. With backing from Andersen and in partnership with machinist Paul Bernhardt, Cal Specialties was born. To make the Cal Specialties line sound more exciting, the partners took the first three letters of Dorothy9s name, and turned it into the Italianate 3Doretti.2 . Through his work with thin-wall steel tubing, Andersen became involved with the Standard Swallow Company that was building a sports car based on Triumph TR2 running gear. In partnership with Dorothy, Andersen took on distribution of the new car in the U.S. and simultaneously picked up Western distribution rights for Triumph. Not only would Dorothy import the cars, but for a single dollar she sold the rights to the Doretti name that soon graced the attractive new two-seater. After Doretti production ended in 1955, Deen continued to import Triumphs until the company bought out all distributors in 1960. She then became the 45th woman in the world to earn her helicopter pilot9s license and later co-owned and managed an aircraft dealership. She later returned to UCLA to become a para legal on her intended but never completed--route to becoming an attorney. Along the way she declined Max Hoffman9s offer of a West Coast BMW distributorship and opted for a life of retirement and travel with her late husband, Tony Anthony, whom she met when he sold her that first MG TD sports cars years earlier. She is survived by automotive historian Jim Sitz, her husband of 16 years. For more information, contact Jonathan A. Stein, 610/779-9710 or jonathanastein at aol.com. 7450 Valley View Lane Reading, PA 19606, USA; 610\779-9710 (fax: 610/779-3705); cell: 484/824-2660; jonathanstein at aol.com From klynch_6 at msn.com Sat Oct 27 20:58:44 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:58:44 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Question Message-ID: Can you replace a 1147 Spit motor with a 1500 without too much problem? Thanx! Kevin From spitlist at cox.net Sat Oct 27 21:11:18 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:11:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001e01c81910$3648a200$2202a8c0@newcomputer> The dimensions of the two engines are identical. Also the gearbox attachments are also the same. So it is a "Piece of cake" Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of KEVIN LYNCH Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 7:59 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Question Can you replace a 1147 Spit motor with a 1500 without too much problem? Thanx! Kevin spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From klynch_6 at msn.com Sat Oct 27 22:03:20 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:03:20 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Question References: <001e01c81910$3648a200$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: Thank you Joe. Kev ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Curry To: 'KEVIN LYNCH' ; 'FOT' Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 9:11 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Question The dimensions of the two engines are identical. Also the gearbox attachments are also the same. So it is a "Piece of cake" Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of KEVIN LYNCH Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 7:59 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Question Can you replace a 1147 Spit motor with a 1500 without too much problem? Thanx! Kevin _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sun Oct 28 01:27:34 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 01:27:34 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Questions about Watkins Glen in ' 08 Message-ID: <000201c81934$028ae530$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> I am hoping to make it to Watkins Glen in ' 08 and with luck get sponsored to go. I would really like to speak/correspond with someone that's raced there to familiarize with some of the details of racing at The Glen. I have tried to download certain info from the website but their downloads are scrambled at the moment. Besides, media kits and the like can't tell me what another driver can. Any help would be appreciated. Jim G RMVR # 102 From gp89 at charter.net Sun Oct 28 06:39:07 2007 From: gp89 at charter.net (gp89 at charter.net) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 6:39:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071028093907.OHFDB.128543.root@fepweb02> The throttle linkage is a cable on the 1500. You will also need a later style yoke for the front u joint to fit the transmission. Jeff Senty gp89 ---- KEVIN LYNCH wrote: > Can you replace a 1147 Spit motor with a 1500 without too much problem? > > Thanx! > > Kevin > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gp89 at charter.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Sun Oct 28 06:58:41 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 09:58:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] Question Message-ID: In a message dated 10/27/2007 9:59:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, klynch_6 at msn.com writes: Can you replace a 1147 Spit motor with a 1500 without too much problem? the only problem you'll have is that the 1500 will likely hand-grenade on a regular basis... HTH Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillDentin at aol.com Sun Oct 28 09:05:20 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:05:20 EDT Subject: [Fot] Dorothy Deen, March 28, 1922 - October 23, 2007 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/27/2007 8:01:58 PM Central Standard Time, trhouse at greenapple.com writes: > Oceanside California, October 23, 2007. > As raging wildfires threatened her Southern California home, Dorothy Deen > Sitz died in a nearby Oceanside hospital after a long illness. The vivacious > blonde Deen was best known for the Doretti sports car, a line of sports car > accessories of the same name and for importing Triumph Sports cars for the > Western United States. A darling of the local and automotive press, she was > a common fixture at races and promoting the sports cars she sold. > How very sad. An important player in early TRIUMPH history on this side of the pond. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 29 06:36:43 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:36:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen-Hampton Inn 2008 Message-ID: FoT Based on the response to the Hampton Inn as 'Host Hotel', I will likely up the number of rooms forecasted to 15 or 20, especially if it makes a difference in pricing. As soon as I get the "Proposal" back, I will forward the information to everyone so they can make their own reservations, with arrival and departure dates. I expect that the key words will be "Friends of Triumph". Note: The address for this Hotel is "Corning" but the Hotel is actually in Painted Post. Regards, Joe From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 29 07:13:07 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:13:07 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen-Planning Spreadsheet on Entrants and Attendees Message-ID: FoT, I have this huge list of entrants and attendees. It is somewhat incomplete, but Tom Strange has volunteered to take it over and develop an expanded Excel Spreadsheet with information. This is really appreciated. Thanks Tom! When he is ready, some of the information can be published on the FoT Website, with some help from Henry Frye. Sometime after the first of the year, our major sponsor, Classic Motorsports Magazine, will put together a blurb on the WG Grand Prix. Along with this Tim will publish the name of the ENTRANTS, as we know them at that point. Tim has done this in the past. (Walter Mitty) I sent the Excel Spreadsheet LIST to Tom this weekend, and when he is ready, he will be asking for further information. Thanks for the cooperation....and thanks again, Tom! Regards, Joe A From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Oct 29 07:40:10 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Paging Mr. Frye Message-ID: Hi, Henry Frye - I need you e-mail address. Thanks. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Oct 29 07:46:09 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Cancel Page Message-ID: Hi, Nevermind! I found it. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 29 07:56:27 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:56:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen-Planning Spreadsheet on Entrants and Attendees In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <168044.47850.qm@web81112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Good morning everyone ;>) Thanks, Joe, for the note to the list. I did volunteer to do this, and will be looking for info as we proceed. For now, if anyone wants to add or delete their name from the list, I will put people down as having a car or not, and I'll probably add info as we go to make it easier for everyone to plan things such as the motel, T-shirts, paddock space, activities and such. I welcome any kind of info, such as, i'd like to come, but dont know... I'll definitley be there ... etc. If plans change, let me know and I can move names, cars etc to whatever column seems to be appropriate. I have most email addresses, but am lacking a few, so emailing would be best. That way, we have a way to contact the list of people as developments and news come available. This looks like a big planning event for Joe, so I'm sure that at some point, any info we have will be needed or helpful to someone. Send me any info you like, and I"ll track it for whoever needs it... I may well ask for other things later on as the need arises. Hope to see you all there. Thanks, PS. The sooner the better on any of this, it is all flexible, and can be changed as we go... N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT, I have this huge list of entrants and attendees. It is somewhat incomplete, but Tom Strange has volunteered to take it over and develop an expanded Excel Spreadsheet with information. This is really appreciated. Thanks Tom! When he is ready, some of the information can be published on the FoT Website, with some help from Henry Frye. Sometime after the first of the year, our major sponsor, Classic Motorsports Magazine, will put together a blurb on the WG Grand Prix. Along with this Tim will publish the name of the ENTRANTS, as we know them at that point. Tim has done this in the past. (Walter Mitty) I sent the Excel Spreadsheet LIST to Tom this weekend, and when he is ready, he will be asking for further information. Thanks for the cooperation....and thanks again, Tom! Regards, Joe A tstrange at sbcglobal.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From jsnook at wcnet.org Mon Oct 29 09:33:48 2007 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:33:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Member Message-ID: <009a01c81a49$7b9890b0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Hi all, While at Mid Ohio a couple weeks ago a guy named Bill Tobin approached me about FOT and some questions about rear hubs for a TR6 vintage racer. I am copying him on this so if anyone can help, contact him directly. I guess this is also a nomination to the FOT list if he is not all ready a member. Thanks, Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Oct 29 09:36:11 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:36:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] TR6 Member In-Reply-To: <009a01c81a49$7b9890b0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> References: <009a01c81a49$7b9890b0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Oct 2007, Jeff Snook wrote: > Hi all, > > While at Mid Ohio a couple weeks ago a guy named Bill Tobin approached me > about FOT and some questions about rear hubs for a TR6 vintage racer. > > I am copying him on this so if anyone can help, contact him directly. > > I guess this is also a nomination to the FOT list if he is not all ready a > member. SECOND! > Thanks, > > Jeff Snook > http://www.snooksdreamcars.com regards, rml (TR6 racer) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fasttrs at mindspring.com Mon Oct 29 11:40:02 2007 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:40:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Member In-Reply-To: <009a01c81a49$7b9890b0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> References: <009a01c81a49$7b9890b0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Message-ID: <000f01c81a5b$1e19e9e0$6401a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> I'll third him. I may try to talk him out of racing a TR6 though. I may have a line on a set. Mike -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Snook Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 11:34 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Subject: [Fot] TR6 Member Hi all, While at Mid Ohio a couple weeks ago a guy named Bill Tobin approached me about FOT and some questions about rear hubs for a TR6 vintage racer. I am copying him on this so if anyone can help, contact him directly. I guess this is also a nomination to the FOT list if he is not all ready a member. Thanks, Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com fasttrs at mindspring.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From S.Janzen at comcast.net Mon Oct 29 12:31:04 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:31:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] GT6 Project in Philadelphia area available References: Message-ID: <004b01c81a62$3f8be8b0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> A friend of mine has a complete disassembled GT6 ('68?) and a second later car sans engine and trans. They started to make a vintage race car and stopped, w/o much progress being made. Chassis was gone through, painted, new bushings, front coil-overs etc but has been sitting on and under a tarp for a few years outside. Body looks like there may be some rot in the front part of the outer rockers but generally very solid, in white primer, totally stripped. All interior stuff in boxes. Rear is swing axle, no hood or quarter panel vents so I am guessing at the age. No mfg plate or title. Second body is probably a 69-70, later rear suspension, body in worse condition, and bonnet is rusty in the lower front areas and the hood lip is dented. Interior non existent except for dash. Al (those of you who race SVRA in the East may know him from his lime yellow 55 Vette which he and his son race) is looking for $800 for all. Good starting point for a vintage race project but not for the faint-hearted. Located in western Philadelphia PA suburbs. Contact me if you are interested and I will get you in touch with Al. Thanks! Scott s.janzen at comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 6:17 AM Subject: [Fot] Classic Motorsports magazine wall calendar > Sorry about the commercial message, but heck, I am a good citizen of the > board and supporter of all things Triumph. Plus, we are giivng away > calendars > again. This year we have a TR3 (not mine) on the calendar. To check it out > go to > the website below. Thanks. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > Here's the offical mumbo jumbo... > > Free 2008 wall calendar from Classic Motorsports. > > Featuring some of the coolest cars and best photography from Classic > Motorsports magazine, this 2008 calendar is available free to all Classic > Motorsports > subscribers. Chock-full of a year's worth of eye candy for your office or > garage this high quality calendar measures a full 10" x 17" when open. > Each month > features a brilliant, full-color photo of one of your favorite classic > cars, > including favorites from MG, Triumph, Alfa Romeo and Porsche, along with > some > more unusual picks, like the Lang-Cooper vintage racer, the Isetta > microcar and > the "Hollywood" Sunbeam Tiger. > > The 2008 Classic Motorsports calendar is only available for free until Nov > 13th. To see if your favorite car is on this calendar or to make sure you > get a > copy please visit http://classicmotorsports.net/calendar/ > > Not ready to subscribe? You can still purchase this calendar from the > Classic > Motorsports Store at https://ssl.grmotorsports.com/grm-store.php for a > limited time. And if you would like to order bulk copies for your club, > give us a > call at 888-676-9747 for special pricing. > > > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 15:06:13 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:06:13 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a city lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. Battery and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. Photos at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 -- Chuck Arnold From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 29 15:13:08 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:13:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Message-ID: Chuck! We all hope it will be recovered....Keep us posted. Did you put anything out on the Vintage-Race list? Joe A > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > From tr4.tony at virgin.net Mon Oct 29 15:20:30 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 22:20:30 -0000 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001301c81a79$ead7b7f0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Chuck Ill post this on the TR Register site tonight. Hope it helps you get it back. Regards Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Friends" Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:06 PM Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a > city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. > Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > tr4.tony at virgin.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 15:31:29 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:31:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Need a '69 TR6 body Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710291531i23bc899bqf6a35c3932bf6857@mail.gmail.com> Just in case I do not get my stolen TR5 race car back: I will "convert" my '74 TR6 into a '69 so I can vintage race it. I would appreciate any leads on a '69 TR6 that needs a "total restore" as I really just need the tub. Thanks, Chuck Arnold From S.Janzen at comcast.net Mon Oct 29 15:35:21 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:35:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008a01c81a7b$fdca43d0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> You should spread this around to all vintage race organizations, restoration shops, exporters, etc so that if this car ever shows up it is identified and returned. That really sucks! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Friends" Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 6:06 PM Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a > city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. > Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Oct 29 15:42:25 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:42:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Chuck Can't believe someone could easily get rid of a car like that without raising a lot of interest from the TR community. I may be the only person on the list who doesn't know your location. It would help for people on the look-out for the car/trailer or parts to know where the car was stolen from. Good luck Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Chuck Arnold Sent: October 29, 2007 6:06 PM To: Friends Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a city lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. Battery and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. Photos at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 -- Chuck Arnold macdonaldp at rogers.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 15:49:43 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:49:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710291549g3fdbc907ne58856ceba967637@mail.gmail.com> I live in, and the car was stolen in Seattle, WA. On 10/29/07, Paul MacDonald wrote: > > > Hi Chuck > > Can't believe someone could easily get rid of a car like that without > raising a lot of interest from the TR community. > > I may be the only person on the list who doesn't know your location. It > would help for people on the look-out for the car/trailer or parts to know > where the car was stolen from. > > Good luck > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of > Chuck Arnold > Sent: October 29, 2007 6:06 PM > To: Friends > Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a > city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under > hood. Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > macdonaldp at rogers.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Chuck Arnold From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Mon Oct 29 15:57:10 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:57:10 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen References: Message-ID: <004c01c81a7f$0a2c3fe0$0200a8c0@Desktop> What state does Chuck live in? Don't forget the local car clubs ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > Chuck! > > We all hope it will be recovered....Keep us posted. > > Did you put anything out on the Vintage-Race list? > > Joe A > > >> >> Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed >> receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I >> left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a >> city >> lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I >> park]. >> No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. >> >> Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. >> Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. >> Battery >> and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. >> Mallory >> distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. >> >> Photos at: >> http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 >> >> -- >> Chuck Arnold >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From walt at hot-tr6.com Mon Oct 29 17:33:57 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:33:57 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FW: Emailing: OFF THE Clock Message-ID: <20071030013335.C7EC21879C8@autox.team.net> _____ From: Jack SCHULTZ [mailto:jschultz04 at msn.com] Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:13 PM To: Anne Yeck; BERNADETTE VALDEZ; CDLAWYER; Cheryl Skoumal; Dennis Monks; Jack Lind; MARILYN GUNN; Patricia Schaefer; Rich Sotak; RICK; Trish Schwarz; Vicki Jones; Walter Hollowell Subject: Emailing: OFF THE Clock If you can not read the attachment enlarge to 100% [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of OFF THE Clock.jpg] From wgrosenbach at juno.com Mon Oct 29 18:42:07 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:42:07 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Message-ID: <20071029.194207.2484.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Chuck, I've posted your situation to the RMVR Bulletin Board. A few years ago, a member had his truck, trailer w/racer stolen from an hotel parking lot. Towed the whole thing away. They thought it was a contractor's trailer loaded with tools. When they found an unmarketable vintage racer, they abandoned it, stealing the tools. The club and the owner put so much effort into the search, it impressed the investigators so much, they got all the local TV News involved. They got great air time and had a viewer spot the trailer. May your fortunes be so good, Bill From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Oct 29 19:05:15 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:05:15 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen References: Message-ID: Chuck, also, don't forget to monitor www.racecars.com . My condolences. Kevin Denver ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: triosan at gmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Chuck! We all hope it will be recovered....Keep us posted. Did you put anything out on the Vintage-Race list? Joe A > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jeff_durant at comcast.net Mon Oct 29 20:13:25 2007 From: jeff_durant at comcast.net (jeff_durant at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 03:13:25 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <969553218-1193714122-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-365666944-@bxe103.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Chuck, As mentioned on the phone, you have a lot of friends here that will be looking for your car. I'll spread the word and keep a close look out for your TR5. Jeff Durant Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "KEVIN LYNCH" Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:05:15 To:, , Subject: Re: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Chuck, also, don't forget to monitor www.racecars.com . My condolences. Kevin Denver ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: triosan at gmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Chuck! We all hope it will be recovered....Keep us posted. Did you put anything out on the Vintage-Race list? Joe A > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html jeff_durant at comcast.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Mon Oct 29 20:36:50 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:36:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: <969553218-1193714122-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-365666944-@bxe103.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <969553218-1193714122-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-365666944-@bxe103.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <000b01c81aa6$1b842ec0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> I am thinking that if I just stole a car that was virtually un-sellable in the US, I would be loading it on a container and putting it on one of those ships that are parked along Elliot Bay. Either that or part it out. I don't know what sort of alert could be placed at the container port in Seattle, but that might be something to consider. Good Luck, Joe C. -----Original Message----- Chuck, As mentioned on the phone, you have a lot of friends here that will be looking for your car. I'll spread the word and keep a close look out for your TR5. Jeff Durant Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From jfrymark at aol.com Mon Oct 29 20:49:57 2007 From: jfrymark at aol.com (John Frymark) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:49:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 11, Issue 55 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4626397A-87BD-4390-A785-95C33FDB3C77@aol.com> Chuck, I posted your info on the VARA message boards. Hope you get some good news soon. John Frymark On Oct 29, 2007, at 6:33 PM, fot-request at autox.team.net wrote: > Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:06:13 -0700 > From: "Chuck Arnold" > Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > To: Friends > Message-ID: > <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was > when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long > in a city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I > park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior > markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. > Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. > Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Mon Oct 29 22:48:09 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 22:48:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stolen Car Message-ID: <001501c81ab8$73e7b9d0$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> I'm really sorry to hear about your car, I'd be sick too. Have hope though, as Bill put it, it's likely someone thought it was full of tools or copper pipe or wire and stole it for that reason. I can't ever remember a race car that was stolen and never recovered. Good luck, Jim Gray From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Tue Oct 30 05:35:17 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:35:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Message-ID: <000e01c81af1$53fa9230$0200a8c0@Desktop> Chuck A little more information on the trailer, as go down the highway would be helpful do you have any pictures of the it how many doors are on it color just white tag number >>> Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior >>> markings. >>> Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. >>> Battery >>> and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. >>> Mallory >>> distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. >>> >>> Photos at: >>> http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 >>> >>> -- >>> Chuck Arnold >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> wensley_tr at comcast.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Tue Oct 30 06:43:08 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:43:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com > References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200710301341.l9UDfF8B154450@ns3.geneseo.net> A friend in Chicago had the same experience a couple of years ago. The trailer was later found, tools gone, but car still inside. The police guessed that the thieves were really after the trailer and didn't know how to dispose of the car. We all hope that you have this good fortune - there is still hope. At 05:06 PM 10/29/2007, Chuck Arnold wrote: >Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed >receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I >left. > >-- >Chuck Arnold >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From walt at hot-tr6.com Tue Oct 30 06:48:23 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 07:48:23 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FW: Emailing: OFF THE Clock Message-ID: <20071030144802.481B5187A4A@autox.team.net> I'll try resending this. It was pretty cute. Karma Kind of sucks Walt in Abq. _____ From: Jack SCHULTZ [mailto:jschultz04 at msn.com] Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:13 PM To: Anne Yeck; BERNADETTE VALDEZ; CDLAWYER; Cheryl Skoumal; Dennis Monks; Jack Lind; MARILYN GUNN; Patricia Schaefer; Rich Sotak; RICK; Trish Schwarz; Vicki Jones; Walter Hollowell Subject: Emailing: OFF THE Clock If you can not read the attachment enlarge to 100% [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of OFF THE Clock.jpg] From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Tue Oct 30 08:33:44 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 07:33:44 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Need a '69 TR6 body References: <8cbd782d0710291531i23bc899bqf6a35c3932bf6857@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <014201c81b0a$432acb00$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Chuck, I have a TR4A car sitting around that maybe I'd part with. It's very similar to the TR5 except the TR5 right front fender has a little bit more recess for the PI/Carbs to fit. I haven't done much with it yet but think it's fairly sound. Just a thought if you want to build a TR5 again. The chassis of the TR6 and TR4A should change with out any problems. What part of the TR6 tub do you need? Let me know what you think. Sorry to hear about your loss. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Friends" ; "Triumph" <6pack at autox.team.net> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 2:31 PM Subject: [Fot] Need a '69 TR6 body > Just in case I do not get my stolen TR5 race car back: I will "convert" my > '74 TR6 into a '69 > so I can vintage race it. I would appreciate any leads on a '69 TR6 that > needs a "total restore" as I really just need the tub. > > Thanks, > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 08:12:25 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:12:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: <001101c81af9$4df35270$c59c3e4b@keng> References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> <001101c81af9$4df35270$c59c3e4b@keng> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710300812kfda4d80gc8882b9d9067a942@mail.gmail.com> Unfortunately the trailer is as plain jane as you could get. I purposely had no markings on it indicating a race car. It is white. It has a side door [with the lock broken out]. The inside has gray vinyl flooring. The front right plywood is broken and the outside bends out a little from when the car "got away inside one day" at bumper hight. Plates are 4476 SW, Washington state. Here is what I psoted to our race group: This weekend my 16x7 White Road Force trailer was stolen from the 2400 block of Westlake Ave North in Seattle. My green 1968 Triumph TR5 race car was inside. Car number is 444. Trailer license is 4476SW. If anyone gets a wiff of these please notify the Seattle police. Case number is 07-441715. Pictures at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 On 10/30/07, BFEKen at copper.net wrote: > > Chuck, hopefully when the see the race car, they will dump it quick. > > KEN > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck Arnold" > To: "Friends" > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 2:06 PM > Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > > > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a > > city > > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I > park]. > > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior > markings. > > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. > > Battery > > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the > injectors. Mallory > > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > > > Photos at: > > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > > > -- > > Chuck Arnold > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > bfeken at copper.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Chuck Arnold From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Tue Oct 30 20:12:32 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:12:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very origiinal car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is nice and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and the dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. We are having a tuning problem. With 2 psi fuel pressre at the carb at WOT the engine runs lean, especially at part throttle. The stock spec. calls for "DD" mixture needles. They are way lean. Just bringing the revs up from idle to about 2500 to 3000 rpm with no load the engine spits and runs very rough. Adding fuel makes the engine "rev" right up. We have tried progressively richer needles going from the "DD" to "AN", then to "H-6" and finally to "DK" needles. With the "DK" needles installed the engine runs"GREAT' under any circumstances but I am afraid that it is to rich. I took it on a 35 miles or so road test on Sunday with these needles installed and it was a pleasure to drive! but seemed to just "suck" gas, but this is a subjective judgement as I was not able to measure the fuel economy. Note, the cam, displacement, etc. are all stock in this car. I am at a loss to understand why the needles need to be so much richer than the stock spec to make this car run properly! Does anyone have any ideas or experience with this exact model? Greg Solow From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Tue Oct 30 20:31:27 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:31:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Oil canister o-rings Message-ID: <005801c81b6e$882fddd0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Before I overnight ship them in, does anyone know if the Purolator filter head o-ring crosses over to something off the shelf at my local parts house? I have some spares I bought a long time ago but it turns out they are the wrong size. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Oct 30 20:51:17 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles In-Reply-To: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: <287661.95972.qm@web81202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greg: Perhaps this suggestion is too simple, but, have you checked for manifold air leaks that would cause the mixture to be lean because your sucking air? Could be your adding extra air after the throttle plate; carbs to manifold, manifold to head, hose from manifold to PCV valve bad. Just silly things you've probably checked already. - Ed Greg Solow wrote: We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very origiinal car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is nice and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and the dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. We are having a tuning problem. With 2 psi fuel pressre at the carb at WOT the engine runs lean, especially at part throttle. The stock spec. calls for "DD" mixture needles. They are way lean. Just bringing the revs up from idle to about 2500 to 3000 rpm with no load the engine spits and runs very rough. Adding fuel makes the engine "rev" right up. We have tried progressively richer needles going from the "DD" to "AN", then to "H-6" and finally to "DK" needles. With the "DK" needles installed the engine runs"GREAT' under any circumstances but I am afraid that it is to rich. I took it on a 35 miles or so road test on Sunday with these needles installed and it was a pleasure to drive! but seemed to just "suck" gas, but this is a subjective judgement as I was not able to measure the fuel economy. Note, the cam, displacement, etc. are all stock in this car. I am at a loss to understand why the needles need to be so much richer than the stock spec to make this car run properly! Does anyone have any ideas or experience with this exact model? Greg Solow edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From patrickmannion1 at netzero.net Tue Oct 30 23:39:22 2007 From: patrickmannion1 at netzero.net (patrickmannion1 at netzero.net) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:39:22 GMT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: <20071030.233922.188.0@webmail10.vgs.untd.com> Hello everyone, On this particular Spitfire it idles fine on the "stock needles". Bring the engine RPM up to 3500 to 4500 RPM and the engine just falls flat like it was starving for gas on stock needles. Spraying "Chem-tool" in the throat of the carbs the engine RPM picks up immediately confirming a "fuel starvation" issue. Fuel Pressure and delivery is adequate. Fuel quality is good "not stale gas" (this car had sat for a long time). Fuel tank, has been cleaned fuel filter is new, fuel lines are clear, fuel pump is OK. We did find the feed tube from one of the float bowls to the jet tube was "kinked" after removing the protective spring around the float bowl to jet, (that would certainly have caused a restriction that would have caused fuel starvation). Replace jet/tube to float bowl. Blocked off PCV valve and used a Vacutech smoke machine (basically applies smoke to the engine, a leak in a manifold gasket or throttle shaft shows up as smoke leaking out the origin of what would be a vacuum leak, wonderful tool for looking for vacuum leaks on modern cars).Also tried propane and Chemtool with the engine running to verify integrity of intake manifold gasket, PCV valve. Ignition system is perfect. Ignition coil has great KV output, scope pattern great on an old Sun machine. Compression, cylinder leakage all OK. Even dropped exhaust at the header output thinking what if exhaust was restricted. We had even put a vacuum gauge on the intake manifold to see if back pressure in the exhaust was effecting cylinder filling efficiency as engine RPM increased. Ignition total advance is about 36 degrees. Camshaft lift is uniform, (no bad lobes)!!! Our conclusion is it has to be the mixture needles as it runs great on rich needles. Any suggestions appreciated. thanks Pat Mannion The Engine Room From herald948 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 06:48:38 2007 From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:48:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles In-Reply-To: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> References: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: <8C9E9DBDFCD8BC0-D00-841D@webmail-da18.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Greg Solow We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very origiinal car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is nice and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and the dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. ==AM== Greg, I've no sage words of wisdom about the problem, but I do have a question. Which engine are we talking about here? You mention "stock tubular headers" -- they were "stock" only on the Spitfire 4 Mk2 with the 1147cc, six-port engine (FC series). An original engine for a '68 Mk3 would be an FD series, eight-port, 1296cc. engine. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From klynch_6 at msn.com Wed Oct 31 08:33:48 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:33:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles References: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: Greg, hopefully everything remained on the shelves after the quake from the Calaveras Fault last nite. Was in S Cruz during the 89' Loma Prieta. Happy Halloween Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Solow To: Friends of Triumph Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 9:12 PM Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very origiinal car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is nice and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and the dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. We are having a tuning problem. With 2 psi fuel pressre at the carb at WOT the engine runs lean, especially at part throttle. The stock spec. calls for "DD" mixture needles. They are way lean. Just bringing the revs up from idle to about 2500 to 3000 rpm with no load the engine spits and runs very rough. Adding fuel makes the engine "rev" right up. We have tried progressively richer needles going from the "DD" to "AN", then to "H-6" and finally to "DK" needles. With the "DK" needles installed the engine runs"GREAT' under any circumstances but I am afraid that it is to rich. I took it on a 35 miles or so road test on Sunday with these needles installed and it was a pleasure to drive! but seemed to just "suck" gas, but this is a subjective judgement as I was not able to measure the fuel economy. Note, the cam, displacement, etc. are all stock in this car. I am at a loss to understand why the needles need to be so much richer than the stock spec to make this car run properly! Does anyone have any ideas or experience with this exact model? Greg Solow _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Wed Oct 31 09:09:32 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:09:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles References: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> <8C9E9DBDFCD8BC0-D00-841D@webmail-da18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000d01c81bd8$6cb31260$6401a8c0@TER2> Woops! I has been so long since I have seen anything but 1500 Spitfires, I got mixed up about the headers. The engine is a 1300 8 port head. The headers must be an aftermarket addition put on 30 + years ago. Regards, Greg Solow ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:48 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Solow > > > We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very > origiinal > car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new > guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is > nice > and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and > the > dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. > > ==AM== > Greg, I've no sage words of wisdom about the problem, but I do have a > question. Which engine are we talking about here? You mention "stock > tubular headers" -- they were "stock" only on the Spitfire 4 Mk2 with the > 1147cc, six-port engine (FC series). An original engine for a '68 Mk3 > would be an FD series, eight-port, 1296cc. engine. > > --Andy Mace > > *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? > *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph > Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > > Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph > Herald Database at its new URL: > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Wed Oct 31 09:28:14 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:28:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles References: <287661.95972.qm@web81202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c81bdb$12d9f1c0$6401a8c0@TER2> Regarding the Spitfire. There are no vacuum leaks. The PCV valve is ok. We have not checked the cam timing. Maybe that is in order. The engine runs GREAT! with the DK needles installed. What we really need is a chassis dyno to check mixture under load. There used to be one in San Jose but it is no longer in action. Maybe a "Smog test Dyno" might work? Has anyone tried one of these for tuning as opposed to Smog Testing? Greg Solow ----- Original Message ----- From: EDWARD BARNARD To: Greg Solow ; Friends of Triumph Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Greg: Perhaps this suggestion is too simple, but, have you checked for manifold air leaks that would cause the mixture to be lean because your sucking air? Could be your adding extra air after the throttle plate; carbs to manifold, manifold to head, hose from manifold to PCV valve bad. Just silly things you've probably checked already. - Ed Greg Solow wrote: We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very origiinal car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is nice and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and the dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. We are having a tuning problem. With 2 psi fuel pressre at the carb at WOT the engine runs lean, especially at part throttle. The stock spec. calls for "DD" mixture needles. They are way lean. Just bringing the revs up from idle to about 2500 to 3000 rpm with no load the engine spits and runs very rough. Adding fuel makes the engine "rev" right up. We have tried progressively richer needles going from the "DD" to "AN", then to "H-6" and finally to "DK" needles. With the "DK" needles installed the engine runs"GREAT' under any circumstances but I am afraid that it is to rich. I took it on a 35 miles or so road test on Sunday with these needles installed and it was a pleasure to drive! but seemed to just "suck" gas, but this is a subjective judgement as I was not able to measure the fuel economy. Note, the cam, displacement, etc. are all stock in this car. I am at a loss to understand why the needles need to be so much richer than the stock spec to make this car run properly! Does anyone have any ideas or experience with this exact model? Greg Solow _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From robertten1 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 09:30:47 2007 From: robertten1 at aol.com (robertten1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:30:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: <008a01c81a7b$fdca43d0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> <008a01c81a7b$fdca43d0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: <8C9E9F28703ECCF-520-82CD@MBLK-M01.sysops.aol.com> Wish you the best of luck in getting your TR5 back.? Hate to say?it but it probably was stolen by some landscaper for the trailer only.? Doesn't really matter what was inside it to him. Chin up, Bob T. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Janzen To: Chuck Arnold ; Friends Sent: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 6:35 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen You should spread this around to all vintage race organizations, restoration shops, exporters, etc so that if this car ever shows up it is identified and returned. That really sucks! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Friends" Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 6:06 PM Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a > city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. > Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot robertten1 at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From REK46 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 09:59:16 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:59:16 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: Why don't you just do a plug check after running?....if they work good,use em ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From WEmery7451 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 10:01:34 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:01:34 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: In a message dated 10/30/07 7:51:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, edwardbarnard at prodigy.net writes: << Greg: Perhaps this suggestion is too simple, but, have you checked for manif old air leaks that would cause the mixture to be lean because your sucking air? Could be your adding extra air after the throttle plate; carbs to manifold, ma nifold to head, hose from manifold to PCV valve bad. Just silly things you've p robably checked already. - Ed >> Possibly the throttle shaft bushings? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From mikee at ragtops.com Wed Oct 31 10:12:38 2007 From: mikee at ragtops.com (Mike) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:12:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4728B786.4040801@ragtops.com> Greg, We've had similar problems on many different cars. The stock needles don't provide enough fuel. Working with Joe Curto we've been able to make most of them run OK by fitting richer needles to the detriment of fuel economy. I think (unscientific theory with no hard evidence) that the problem stems from the changes in gasoline formulations. As the 'quality' of the fuel has changed over the years the energy in the fuel has diminished. More fuel is needed to get the same performance. The problem with this idea is that only about 10% of the cars we work on need this type of repair. Most of them run OK with the stock setup, although sometimes adjusted as rich as it will go. Mike Engard From REK46 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 10:13:49 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:13:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: The MkIII owners manual says that the engine is designed to operate on fuels having a min oct rating of 97(Research Method)..Using fuels of this type or higher,the static timing should be 6 degs B.T.D.C...if these fuels are not available,or lower,you should retard the ign timing just sufficient enuf to prevent pinging.....also be sure the float levels are correct ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 31 10:38:11 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:38:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710311038g3469c774xe9dd178a6597f1cf@mail.gmail.com> Can an SCCA legal cage be fitted in a TR6 with the hardtop? Do the Brits do this? Is there room for helmet clearance of the bar for a6 footer? Thanks, Chuck considering options if my TR5 never reappers. Anyone have a real vintage racing prepped TR250/5/6 available. Any suggestions for sources for looking? -- Chuck Arnold From keithfiles at btinternet.com Wed Oct 31 11:22:12 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:22:12 -0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710311038g3469c774xe9dd178a6597f1cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071031193304.3D40F187A03@autox.team.net> Hi Chuck, I am 6 ft and have a full FIA cage inside my TR6 and I run a GRP hardtop (used to run with a standard Triumph steel hardtop so I know that one fits) and I have no problems getting in and out of the car. My head, with the helmet on, does miss the roof but not by very much - having said that I still use the standard TR6 seat runner so if I lost that and bolted the seat directly to the floor I would have plenty of clearance. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Chuck Arnold Sent: 31 October 2007 17:38 To: Friends Subject: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing Can an SCCA legal cage be fitted in a TR6 with the hardtop? Do the Brits do this? Is there room for helmet clearance of the bar for a6 footer? Thanks, Chuck considering options if my TR5 never reappers. Anyone have a real vintage racing prepped TR250/5/6 available. Any suggestions for sources for looking? -- Chuck Arnold keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4.tony at virgin.net Wed Oct 31 11:57:27 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:57:27 -0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing References: <20071031193304.3D40F187A03@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <001301c81bef$e2470ce0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Hi Chuck Another solution if you need a couple of extra inches ..... my lid is the alloy type, but you could do this in steel or indeed let in some fibreglass bumps relatively easily. Im 6 ft 3 and this gives me 3 chear inches above my helmet. The bigger issue may be the design of the cage and how close this is to the back of your cranium if you have long legs and the seat well back into the car. Worth looking at. Water wings not necessary for circuit use! Regards Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Files" To: "'Chuck Arnold'" Cc: "'Friends'" Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing > Hi Chuck, > > I am 6 ft and have a full FIA cage inside my TR6 and I run a GRP hardtop > (used to run with a standard Triumph steel hardtop so I know that one > fits) > and I have no problems getting in and out of the car. My head, with the > helmet on, does miss the roof but not by very much - having said that I > still use the standard TR6 seat runner so if I lost that and bolted the > seat > directly to the floor I would have plenty of clearance. > > Cheers, Keith. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Chuck Arnold > Sent: 31 October 2007 17:38 > To: Friends > Subject: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing > > Can an SCCA legal cage be fitted in a TR6 with the hardtop? Do the Brits > do > this? Is there room for helmet clearance of the bar for a6 footer? > > Thanks, Chuck considering options if my TR5 never reappers. Anyone have > a > real vintage racing prepped TR250/5/6 available. Any suggestions for > sources for looking? > > -- > Chuck Arnold > keithfiles at btinternet.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > tr4.tony at virgin.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of RT07_07_3840LR.jpg] From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Wed Oct 31 12:11:31 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <480623.82675.qm@web81209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Don't forget...octane was measured differently back then (RON). Also note that octane ratings here in the states average 4 or 5 points below Europe because they use the RON rating while we average the RON and MON. Their 97 equals our high test or medium grade depending on who's European gas your buying. - Ed REK46 at aol.com wrote: The MkIII owners manual says that the engine is designed to operate on fuels having a min oct rating of 97(Research Method)..Using fuels of this type or higher,the static timing should be 6 degs B.T.D.C...if these fuels are not available,or lower,you should retard the ign timing just sufficient enuf to prevent pinging.....also be sure the float levels are correct ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From REK46 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 12:16:53 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:16:53 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: belive that was LEADED back then also ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From walt at hot-tr6.com Wed Oct 31 12:41:52 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:41:52 -0600 Subject: [Fot] N.O.S. Spitfire pistons Message-ID: <20071031204126.6E73B187A3D@autox.team.net> I ended up with a set of 4 new old stock pistons for a 1296cc Spitfire. .020 over. Still in Hepolite box. part number 20140. Complete with wrist pins and piston rings. If any fot member would like them for $100 (I'll pay shipping at that price) they can have them. If not I'll list them on ebaymotors in a few days. Thanks Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, New Mexico From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Wed Oct 31 12:46:04 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:46:04 -0500 Subject: [Fot] N.O.S. Spitfire pistons In-Reply-To: <20071031204126.6E73B187A3D@autox.team.net> References: <20071031204126.6E73B187A3D@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747C6FE8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> And if I can be permitted to piggy-back on Walt's message, I've got a set of the same for 1147, 0.040 over. Someone can have those for the same deal. Still in the Hepolite box, complete with wrist pins and piston rings. Scott B. (920) 257-2233 (office direct) -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Walter Hollowell Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:42 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] N.O.S. Spitfire pistons I ended up with a set of 4 new old stock pistons for a 1296cc Spitfire. .020 over. Still in Hepolite box. part number 20140. Complete with wrist pins and piston rings. If any fot member would like them for $100 (I'll pay shipping at that price) they can have them. If not I'll list them on ebaymotors in a few days. Thanks Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, New Mexico scott.barr at mccarty-law.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From walt at hot-tr6.com Wed Oct 31 12:51:30 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:51:30 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Pistons Sold Message-ID: <20071031205103.96E22187A5D@autox.team.net> the aforementioned Spitfire .020 are sold to Rick. That was quick. Thanks Again Walt Abq., NM From RYoung at navcomtech.com Wed Oct 31 14:04:47 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:04:47 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles In-Reply-To: <002101c81bdb$12d9f1c0$6401a8c0@TER2> References: <287661.95972.qm@web81202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002101c81bdb$12d9f1c0$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: > Maybe a "Smog test Dyno" might work? Has > anyone tried one of > these for tuning as opposed to Smog Testing? I asked at a local smog shop; and was told that most of the units could not handle enough power for full load even with a relatively small engine. Apparently the smog test is done under light load (cruise conditions) and small dynos are cheaper than big ones. However, they claimed to have a larger unit that could handle up to 150 rwhp, and were willing to sell me dyno time by the hour. Unfortunately, I never took them up on the offer; don't even know if they are still there. ISTR the shop was off of Artesia Blvd in Bellflower, CA, but that's not much to go on. And after they insisted on testing my Chevy in 3rd gear (leading to a failure because the EGR valve wouldn't open at such high manifold vacuum), I never went back. If they quoted a price for an hour of dyno time, I don't remember it. Randall fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 31 15:28:45 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:28:45 EDT Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn - Corning (Painted Post) Zippo Grand Prix 2008 Message-ID: FoT Entrants and Attendees: I got a reply on my 'Request for Proposal' from Hampton Inn: Facility name: Hampton Inn Corning The quote per room that I received was for $114.00 per night. No additional costs for doubles or added people. Flat Rate. The maximum rooms blocked is 20 Rooms The reservations will be made under the organization name of: THE FRIENDS OF TRIUMPH..........to acquire that special rate. I have not accepted the proposal, yet, but plan to. Please respond once more to me, then I will follow through. I prefer that you make your own reservations. (with one or two exceptions) Once I block these rooms off, I will provide the information to you in order to make the reservations. Joe Alexander From riverside at cedar-rapids.net Wed Oct 31 15:45:08 2007 From: riverside at cedar-rapids.net (riverside) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:45:08 -0600 Subject: [Fot] GT6 body in wisconsin Message-ID: <000201c81c1d$22054860$35dd9f04@your55e5f9e3d2> I had computer mishap andm lost most of my inbox including some corrrespondence with an fot'er who offered a GT6 body. Would he please get back with me. Thanks. art de armond From spitlist at cox.net Wed Oct 31 17:37:05 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:37:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] GT6 body in wisconsin In-Reply-To: <000201c81c1d$22054860$35dd9f04@your55e5f9e3d2> References: <000201c81c1d$22054860$35dd9f04@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: <000f01c81c1f$53c8c690$2202a8c0@newcomputer> It was Scott Barr, I think. And the body I am pretty sure is the one he got from me. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of riverside Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:45 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] GT6 body in wisconsin I had computer mishap andm lost most of my inbox including some corrrespondence with an fot'er who offered a GT6 body. Would he please get back with me. Thanks. art de armond spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 31 18:21:00 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] GT6 body in wisconsin In-Reply-To: <000f01c81c1f$53c8c690$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: <311222.2638.qm@web57602.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Scott does in fact have a GT-6 tub and his dad, Jerry, has a complete GT-6. Joe Curry wrote: It was Scott Barr, I think. And the body I am pretty sure is the one he got from me. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of riverside Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:45 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] GT6 body in wisconsin I had computer mishap andm lost most of my inbox including some corrrespondence with an fot'er who offered a GT6 body. Would he please get back with me. Thanks. art de armond spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 31 19:49:47 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:49:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] THE HAMPTON INN HIGH ROLLERS Message-ID: FoT Well here we are so far......enough to proceed with accepting the proposal from the Hampton Inn. I'll be back to you with the info, so you can make your reservations. Regards, Joe Alexander KAS & PEG KASTNER JACK & FRANCES DREWS CARY PERKET (2) CRAIG WENSLEY KEN GANO KEITH & DENISE FILES (2) JIM MC ANDREW ED DIEHL & FRIENDS TONY SCHEACH JOHN HERRERA From alfetta95 at optonline.net Mon Oct 1 05:53:48 2007 From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (alfetta95 at optonline.net) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 11:53:48 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Fot] Bill Troup's TR4 In-Reply-To: <20070930.223420.11184.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> References: <20070930.223420.11184.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Joe, I don't know about the TR4. Just wanted to know how you did at the NARRC Runoffs? Was it a large turnout? Todd Redmond ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Boruch Date: Sunday, September 30, 2007 10:36 pm Subject: [Fot] Bill Troup's TR4 To: fot at autox.team.net > While at racing at the SCCA NARRC Chapionship race at Lime Rock > this past > weekend some folks that raced in the 1960's-70's were telling me > about a TR4 > that Bill Troup (spelling???) built and raced in the Northeast. > Sounded like > a car that was ahead of its time. Is anyone familiar with what > happened to > the car? Apparently Bill passed away some time ago and no one > that I came > across knew what happened to the car. Joe(B) > > _____________________________________________________________ > Largest network of startups. Find new startup opportunities. > Click here. > http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlQfILSztxbTZwew2l7Kv0yZSO > 8EeKiUMGpbYyvqLlWgoamO/ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > alfetta95 at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From DSPGTi at aol.com Mon Oct 1 06:41:46 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 08:41:46 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR8 engine for sale Message-ID: Over this past weekend, a friend of mine and I took his race car that we are running in this weekends Enduro at Watkins Glen to a SCCA tech inspector for an annual stamp. Maybe some of you in the East would know Steve Limbert, a long time SCCA official, racer, prep shop and now avid Vintage racer specializing in air cooled Porsches. Since our conversations were mostly about vintage racing and the subject of Triumphs came up, he asked me if I knew anyone that might be interested in a TR8 motor he had laying around for some time. I didn't get many details but I believe he said it was a fresh motor, never run, bone stock, complete with intake but no carbs. I'm sure someone out there would at least have a passing interest? Price?? I didn't ask. I'm sure it won't be cheap. If you know Steve or saw his Toter Home Rig and racing Porsches, you know it takes a lot to support that kind of habit. If you are interested in contacting him, he can be reached by phone, email or visit his very interesting shop in Wellsville (near York) Pennsylvania. Steve Limbert Air Cooled Racing 1560 Old Mountain Rd. Wellsville, PA 17365 _www.aircooledracing.com_ (http://www.aircooledracing.com) Good Luck, Dave Yeager ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From DSPGTi at aol.com Mon Oct 1 06:44:19 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 08:44:19 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR8 engine for sale Message-ID: I forgot to include his phone number 717-432-4116 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 1 07:47:45 2007 From: dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net (dale oesterle) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 06:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] 1300 block needed Message-ID: <307395.48859.qm@web82211.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am once again looking for an early 1300 block (or complete motor)[Spitfire Mark III, FD or FE designation]. Thanks. Dale Oesterle From twakeman at razzolink.com Mon Oct 1 08:24:34 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 07:24:34 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser failures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47010322.3060306@razzolink.com> I read all the replies (THANKS!) and per suggestions have: - Sanded the coating off the condenser - installed a new condenser mounting bracket - added a ground wire from the screw holding the condenser bracket in place to a screw holding the coil to the block - replaced the coil - made a blood offering beneath the full moon to both the Lucas and Mallory deities, requesting that they play well together Hopefully the new Mallory condenser will now last longer in my TR. Thanks for all your suggestions to this evidently all to common problem. TeriAnn From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 1 08:41:57 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:41:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 Message-ID: Can anyone help Jack? What can I pass along to him? Thanks! ......my wife and I headed out yesterday in my TR-2 and met up with 2 other couples, one in an MG-TF and the other in a TR-4. It was one of those perfect days, sunny, but cool! Given the cool air temperature, I wouldn't have expected my car to run hot. However, when we got stuck in traffic, and had to sit for a few minutes, the temperature gauge started to climb. This car has always run hot! I don't think it has ever caused any damage, as I keep my eye on the temp gauge, and if it gets too hot, I just turn the engine off until traffic clears, and I can get out on an open road and get the air moving through the radiator. Besides, these old beasts are pretty durable! So, I've put up with this problem for 15+ years. Enough is enough! I've decided to do something about it this winter. I've already got a TR-6 fan, which will pull a lot more air through the radiator. While I have the front apron off to install the new fan, I'm also thinking about upgrading the radiator. My current radiator is completely stock. I had a new core installed when I restored the car (15+ years ago), and it doesn't have a lot of miles on it (probably less than 10,000). Obviously, it's not quite doing the job. What are the race car guys doing for radiators these days? Does anyone make a high efficiency aluminum radiator, that is basically the same configuration as the stock one, can be bolted right in, without making any modifications to the car, and doesn't require taking a second mortgage to pay for it? If something like this is available, I think this is probably the answer to my cooling problem. Do you know of a source for a radiator like this, or do you know anyone (or business) who I can contact, who might be able to help? Thanks, Joe. Jack From jsnook at wcnet.org Mon Oct 1 09:02:13 2007 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:02:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 References: Message-ID: <006401c8043c$0cd8e8f0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Jack, et al, November last year we installed a aluminum radiator in my TR3A produced by Wizard Cooling of NY. Cost was $495 + shipping. Quite a nice piece, installed fairly easily and has held up quite well so far. I just checked their website http://www.wizardcooling.com/index.htm but could not find a link to the TR2/3 radiator but I'm sure if you called them they could make one for you. Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 10:41 AM Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 Can anyone help Jack? What can I pass along to him? Thanks! ......my wife and I headed out yesterday in my TR-2 and met up with 2 other couples, one in an MG-TF and the other in a TR-4. It was one of those perfect days, sunny, but cool! Given the cool air temperature, I wouldn't have expected my car to run hot. However, when we got stuck in traffic, and had to sit for a few minutes, the temperature gauge started to climb. This car has always run hot! I don't think it has ever caused any damage, as I keep my eye on the temp gauge, and if it gets too hot, I just turn the engine off until traffic clears, and I can get out on an open road and get the air moving through the radiator. Besides, these old beasts are pretty durable! So, I've put up with this problem for 15+ years. Enough is enough! I've decided to do something about it this winter. I've already got a TR-6 fan, which will pull a lot more air through the radiator. While I have the front apron off to install the new fan, I'm also thinking about upgrading the radiator. My current radiator is completely stock. I had a new core installed when I restored the car (15+ years ago), and it doesn't have a lot of miles on it (probably less than 10,000). Obviously, it's not quite doing the job. What are the race car guys doing for radiators these days? Does anyone make a high efficiency aluminum radiator, that is basically the same configuration as the stock one, can be bolted right in, without making any modifications to the car, and doesn't require taking a second mortgage to pay for it? If something like this is available, I think this is probably the answer to my cooling problem. Do you know of a source for a radiator like this, or do you know anyone (or business) who I can contact, who might be able to help? Thanks, Joe. Jack _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html jsnook_gmi at wcnet.org Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gripdad at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 1 11:04:28 2007 From: gripdad at sbcglobal.net (Bill Manning) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] 1300 block needed In-Reply-To: <307395.48859.qm@web82211.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <408691.31111.qm@web81606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dale, I have a small journal 1300 block that looks like it was run for a period of time with worn thrust washers. Not sure if this is a terminal problem or not but if you want it come and get it. I'm in Los Angeles. Bill 818-703-5956 dale oesterle wrote: I am once again looking for an early 1300 block (or complete motor)[Spitfire Mark III, FD or FE designation]. Thanks. Dale Oesterle From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 1 11:25:52 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:25:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 Message-ID: FoT Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in 2008. Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming to the Glen. Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. Two very extraordinary individuals. Joe Alexander From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 1 11:29:01 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:29:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That would indeed be cool. If he does come he should bring his helmet and driving gear. I'd certainly volunteer Peyote for a one session, I be other guys would too. On Oct 1, 2007, at 10:25 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT > > Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in > 2008. > > Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > > He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming > to the > Glen. > > Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > > Two very extraordinary individuals. > > Joe Alexander > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Mon Oct 1 11:33:14 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (CHARLES DELAUER) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:33:14 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm going to talk to Carl Stirtz and the gang about getting Steve Froines more involved in this stuff...He was national champ in a tr4 in about 1964, and is still around racing a lot Racer Bud sonoma ca. >From: N197TR4 at cs.com >To: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:25:52 EDT > >FoT > >Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in 2008. > >Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > >He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming to the >Glen. > >Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > >Two very extraordinary individuals. > >Joe Alexander >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >budscars at msn.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From n197tr4 at cs.com Mon Oct 1 11:47:50 2007 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:47:50 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 Message-ID: <380-220071011174750646@M2W004.mail2web.com> i am not sure but his championship car might be there, too. DON? Original Message: ----------------- From: Bill Babcock billb at bnj.com Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:29:01 -0700 To: fot at autox.team.net, N197TR4 at cs.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 That would indeed be cool. If he does come he should bring his helmet and driving gear. I'd certainly volunteer Peyote for a one session, I be other guys would too. On Oct 1, 2007, at 10:25 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT > > Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in > 2008. > > Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > > He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming > to the > Glen. > > Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > > Two very extraordinary individuals. > > Joe Alexander > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft. Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange From n197tr4 at cs.com Mon Oct 1 11:55:48 2007 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:55:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines Message-ID: <380-220071011175548467@M2W019.mail2web.com> we would certainly encourage that!!! thanks & keep me posted. Original Message: ----------------- From: CHARLES DELAUER budscars at msn.com Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:33:14 +0000 To: N197TR4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 I'm going to talk to Carl Stirtz and the gang about getting Steve Froines more involved in this stuff...He was national champ in a tr4 in about 1964, and is still around racing a lot Racer Bud sonoma ca. >From: N197TR4 at cs.com >To: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:25:52 EDT > >FoT > >Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in 2008. > >Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > >He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming to the >Glen. > >Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > >Two very extraordinary individuals. > >Joe Alexander >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >budscars at msn.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com  What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint From budscars at msn.com Mon Oct 1 12:27:11 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (CHARLES DELAUER) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 18:27:11 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines In-Reply-To: <380-220071011175548467@M2W019.mail2web.com> Message-ID: In fact..the light blue tr4 that tide Ebding races is Steve's 'Ol Blue' championship car Racer Bud >From: "n197tr4 at cs.com" >Reply-To: n197tr4 at cs.com >To: budscars at msn.com, n197tr4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: RE: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:55:48 -0400 > >we would certainly encourage that!!! thanks & keep me posted. > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: CHARLES DELAUER budscars at msn.com >Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:33:14 +0000 >To: N197TR4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: RE: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 > > >I'm going to talk to Carl Stirtz and the gang about getting Steve Froines >more involved in this stuff...He was national champ in a tr4 in about 1964, >and is still around racing a lot >Racer Bud sonoma ca. > > > >From: N197TR4 at cs.com > >To: fot at autox.team.net > >Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 > >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:25:52 EDT > > > >FoT > > > >Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in 2008. > > > >Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > > > >He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming to the > >Glen. > > > >Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > > > >Two very extraordinary individuals. > > > >Joe Alexander > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >budscars at msn.com > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web.com  What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? >http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint From jeff_durant at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 12:57:25 2007 From: jeff_durant at comcast.net (jeff_durant at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 18:57:25 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's Message-ID: <456089628-1191265143-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2124543086-@bxe016.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Do any of you FOT'ers have a recommendation of a good machine shop in the SF Bay Area? I am prepping 3x TR250/6 blocks and need someone to line bore the cam journals to accept Spitfire cam bearings. Trying to get my TR6 #12 back on the track for next season. Thanks, Jeff D. TR4a '67 TR250 '68 TR6 '69 #12 Mini Cooper '69 (yeah, I know!) Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From vintage.racer at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 13:04:59 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:04:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines In-Reply-To: References: <380-220071011175548467@M2W019.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <000001c8045d$f7451af0$e5cf50d0$@racer@comcast.net> Bud, et al: Steve Froines is a friend of mine so I'll encourage him to join in on the fun at The Glen next year. Steve retired from racing last year after selling his beautifully restored Cooper shortly after the 2006 Monterey Historics. He just celebrated his 70th birthday a few weeks ago. Regarding "Ole Blue", his former racecar has been in the capable hands of long-time friend Tide Ebding. The car has not been in action for over a year due to an engine replacement. Not sure of the current status but will find out from Steve. Gary -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CHARLES DELAUER Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:27 AM To: n197tr4 at cs.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines In fact..the light blue tr4 that tide Ebding races is Steve's 'Ol Blue' championship car Racer Bud >From: "n197tr4 at cs.com" >Reply-To: n197tr4 at cs.com >To: budscars at msn.com, n197tr4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: RE: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:55:48 -0400 > >we would certainly encourage that!!! thanks & keep me posted. > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: CHARLES DELAUER budscars at msn.com >Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:33:14 +0000 >To: N197TR4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: RE: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 > > >I'm going to talk to Carl Stirtz and the gang about getting Steve Froines >more involved in this stuff...He was national champ in a tr4 in about 1964, >and is still around racing a lot >Racer Bud sonoma ca. > > > >From: N197TR4 at cs.com > >To: fot at autox.team.net > >Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 > >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:25:52 EDT > > > >FoT > > > >Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in 2008. > > > >Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > > > >He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming to the > >Glen. > > > >Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > > > >Two very extraordinary individuals. > > > >Joe Alexander > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >budscars at msn.com > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web.com  What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? >http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 1 13:05:52 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:05:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen..sponsorship announcement for the Kastner Cup Challenge Message-ID: FoT, I am pleased to announce that Classic Motorsports Magazine is our sponsor for the 2008 FOT Triumph Race at Watkins Glen: "THE KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE" presented by CLASSIC MOTORSPORTS MAGAZINE. Tim Suddard, publisher of Grassroots Motorsports and Classic Motorsports Magazines is sponsoring our race at the Glen and is going to support us with advertising and promotion of this event, as sanctioned by SVRA. Additionally, the Entrant Names, Triumphs and Home State for this event will be published in Classic Motorsports at sometime during early 2008, when the early bird entries are in. Regards, Joe A From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Mon Oct 1 13:22:13 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:22:13 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen..sponsorship announcement for the Kastner Cup Challenge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820AC800CB@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> A true friend of Triumph coming through again. Thanks Tim. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 2:06 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen..sponsorship announcement for the Kastner Cup Challenge FoT, I am pleased to announce that Classic Motorsports Magazine is our sponsor for the 2008 FOT Triumph Race at Watkins Glen: "THE KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE" presented by CLASSIC MOTORSPORTS MAGAZINE. Tim Suddard, publisher of Grassroots Motorsports and Classic Motorsports Magazines is sponsoring our race at the Glen and is going to support us with advertising and promotion of this event, as sanctioned by SVRA. Additionally, the Entrant Names, Triumphs and Home State for this event will be published in Classic Motorsports at sometime during early 2008, when the early bird entries are in. Regards, Joe A rkramer at rdoequipment.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From ofbracing at nefcom.net Mon Oct 1 13:40:24 2007 From: ofbracing at nefcom.net (Don Marshall) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:40:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 In-Reply-To: <380-220071011174750646@M2W004.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <008201c80462$e99ac6c0$2001a8c0@Dell5100Laptop> At this point it looks very doubtful that we'll make it. Don -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+ofbracing=nefcom.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+ofbracing=nefcom.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of n197tr4 at cs.com Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 1:48 PM To: billb at bnj.com; fot at autox.team.net; n197tr4 at cs.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 i am not sure but his championship car might be there, too. DON? Original Message: ----------------- From: Bill Babcock billb at bnj.com Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:29:01 -0700 To: fot at autox.team.net, N197TR4 at cs.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 That would indeed be cool. If he does come he should bring his helmet and driving gear. I'd certainly volunteer Peyote for a one session, I be other guys would too. On Oct 1, 2007, at 10:25 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT > > Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in > 2008. > > Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > > He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming > to the > Glen. > > Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > > Two very extraordinary individuals. > > Joe Alexander > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft. Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange ofbracing at nefcom.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1040 - Release Date: 9/30/2007 9:01 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1040 - Release Date: 9/30/2007 9:01 PM From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 1 13:53:15 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen..sponsorship announcement for the Kastner Cup Challenge In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <834073.33718.qm@web57601.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Thanks Tim. N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT, I am pleased to announce that Classic Motorsports Magazine is our sponsor for the 2008 FOT Triumph Race at Watkins Glen: --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. From trmarty at hotmail.com Mon Oct 1 13:56:25 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:56:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Question Of the Day Message-ID: Ok oh knowledgeable ones, splain something to me. On the TR6 the rear axle assembly consists of a two piece splined half shaft. When the wheel goes up and down through its normal suspension travel the splines allow the axle to shorten and lengthen slightly thereby allowing the hub to be in the same fixed location corresponding to the arc traveled by the a-arm. Im not sure that is the proper description but I hope you know what I mean. Now lets move on to this Spitfire Im tinkering with. It has upgraded axles, one piece design with an outer roller bearing and inner needle bearing. The axles are a fixed length; the stack up is what it is. With this length being fixed, does not the flange location float in relationship to the hub as the suspension travels? I guess that should be a statement not a question. This just does not appear correct in my limited though process. Doesnt this allow a shift in the relationship of the brake drum to the brake shoes? Am I just making a mountain out of a mole hill and I should just accept that that just the way it is? What say ye? Thanks, Marty _________________________________________________________________ Discover the new Windows Vista http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 1 14:16:12 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:16:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's In-Reply-To: <456089628-1191265143-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2124543086-@bxe016.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <456089628-1191265143-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2124543086-@bxe016.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: I don't know if he does that kind of work, but one of the best machinists I know of is in Oakland--Bill Smith at Smith Machine and Quandary. On Oct 1, 2007, at 11:57 AM, jeff_durant at comcast.net wrote: > Do any of you FOT'ers have a recommendation of a good machine shop > in the SF Bay Area? I am prepping 3x TR250/6 blocks and need > someone to line bore the cam journals to accept Spitfire cam > bearings. Trying to get my TR6 #12 back on the track for next season. > Thanks, > Jeff D. > TR4a '67 > TR250 '68 > TR6 '69 #12 > Mini Cooper '69 (yeah, I know!) > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Mon Oct 1 14:30:52 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:30:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Answer Of the Day Message-ID: In a message dated 10/1/2007 3:57:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, trmarty at hotmail.com writes: Am I just making a mountain out of a mole hill and I should just accept that that just the way it is? What say ye? uhh, I think you're confusing the spitfire suspension with a REAL suspension system... Welcome to the world of swing axles! Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From fogbro1 at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 14:32:53 2007 From: fogbro1 at comcast.net (Ed Woods) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:32:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 References: <006401c8043c$0cd8e8f0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Message-ID: <008901c8046a$3e2389a0$6700a8c0@Edscomputer> If you're looking for a TR radiator in aluminium, contact Art Lipp at LIPP04 at yahoo.com NFI Ed Woods From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 14:45:11 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:45:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Answer Of the Day References: Message-ID: <00ba01c8046b$f6948740$0200a8c0@Desktop> Hmmm........may he needs to work a corvair ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Answer Of the Day > In a message dated 10/1/2007 3:57:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > trmarty at hotmail.com writes: > > Am I just making a mountain > out of a mole hill and I should just accept that that just the way it is? > What > say ye? > uhh, I think you're confusing the spitfire suspension with a REAL > suspension > system... > Welcome to the world of swing axles! > Glen > > > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Mon Oct 1 14:58:05 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:58:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Question Of the Day References: Message-ID: <007f01c8046d$c3d01700$2d02a8c0@Belkin> Yes, on all swing axle cars the axle is the lower control element and the spring is the uppre control element. This causes a number of concerns. Increase in positive camber when the suspension is in downward travel relative to the diff. seems to be the biggest concern. But the relationship of the brake shoes and drum is not one of them. theyy area always on the same plain. The main advantage of the variable length axle shaftw on the 6 is that there can be separate upper and lower control elements independent of the axle and therefore not cause such radical changes in camber as the suspension raises and lowers. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" To: "FOT" Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 12:56 PM Subject: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Question Of the Day > Ok oh knowledgeable ones, splain something to me. On the TR6 the rear axle > assembly consists of a two piece splined half shaft. When the wheel goes up > and down through its normal suspension travel the splines allow the axle to > shorten and lengthen slightly thereby allowing the hub to be in the same fixed > location corresponding to the arc traveled by the a-arm. Im not sure that is > the proper description but I hope you know what I mean. Now lets move on to > this Spitfire Im tinkering with. It has upgraded axles, one piece design with > an outer roller bearing and inner needle bearing. The axles are a fixed > length; the stack up is what it is. With this length being fixed, does not the > flange location float in relationship to the hub as the suspension travels? I > guess that should be a statement not a question. This just does not appear > correct in my limited though process. Doesnt this allow a shift in the > relationship of the brake drum to the brake shoes? Am I just making a mountain > out of a mole hill and I should just accept that that just the way it is? What > say ye? > > Thanks, > Marty > _________________________________________________________________ > Discover the new Windows Vista > http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gasket.works at verizon.net Mon Oct 1 16:13:43 2007 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Gasket Works USA) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:13:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets Message-ID: <11122791.30486841191276824057.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> I have made these sealing rings in various thickness. If you look at the surfaces that you need to seal. i.e. the flat in the block and the flat on the sleeve -you can see that they are flat and smooth. I can't see why copper is inherently better at sealing than steel. What I can say is that there will likely be less galvanic effects and material such as brass or copper will work just fine. Even if the the copper were annealed dead soft -I can't believe that the copper would compress and flatten out more than an imperceptable amount. I once saved a cylinder sleave by machining .132" off the top and building a series of individual coppper rings to bring the sleave to propper height. There was still more than enough capture in the block. M M.N.Dunst Gasket Works USA, LLC gmt-8 Pacific time 626.358.1616 voice 626.628.3777 fax From budscars at msn.com Mon Oct 1 16:39:09 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:39:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's References: <456089628-1191265143-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2124543086-@bxe016.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: I reccomend Carl stirtz at Stirtz machine in Oakland He's been doing triumph and other racing and stock engines for years..He just did my Spitfire engine....and is on the FOT..he's building a TR4 and has 2 formula juniors.. stirtz machine 510 536 2772 stirtzmachine at aol.com Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: Cc: "FOT" Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's >I don't know if he does that kind of work, but one of the best > machinists I know of is in Oakland--Bill Smith at Smith Machine and > Quandary. > > On Oct 1, 2007, at 11:57 AM, jeff_durant at comcast.net wrote: > >> Do any of you FOT'ers have a recommendation of a good machine shop >> in the SF Bay Area? I am prepping 3x TR250/6 blocks and need >> someone to line bore the cam journals to accept Spitfire cam >> bearings. Trying to get my TR6 #12 back on the track for next season. >> Thanks, >> Jeff D. >> TR4a '67 >> TR250 '68 >> TR6 '69 #12 >> Mini Cooper '69 (yeah, I know!) >> >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> billb at bnj.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cartravel at pobox.com Mon Oct 1 17:11:30 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 18:11:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47017EA2.10106@pobox.com> I am using a commodity Chevy aluminum radiator (TruKool 22x19) from Speedway Motors for about $140. It fits nicely between the inner fenders with about an inch to spare on each side. It required some creative plumbing and some simple mounting brackets on the bottom. I've got some photos somewhere if that would help. It can idle 15 minutes with no fan before it starts to overheat. Never a problem when you're moving. I believe there are other racers using this setup. For a street car, you'd probably have to use an electric fan. This is ONO (obviously not original). N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > Can anyone help Jack? What can I pass along to him? Thanks! From stutzmans at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 18:40:12 2007 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:40:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 References: <006401c8043c$0cd8e8f0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Message-ID: <004c01c8048c$cb02f3c0$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> Isn't that the radiator the Roadster Factory is selling? Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Snook" To: ; Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 > Jack, et al, > > November last year we installed a aluminum radiator in my TR3A produced by > Wizard Cooling of NY. Cost was $495 + shipping. Quite a nice piece, > installed fairly easily and has held up quite well so far. I just checked > their website http://www.wizardcooling.com/index.htm but could not find a > link > to the TR2/3 radiator but I'm sure if you called them they could make one > for > you. > > Jeff Snook > http://www.snooksdreamcars.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 10:41 AM > Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 > > > Can anyone help Jack? What can I pass along to him? Thanks! > > ......my wife and I headed out yesterday in my TR-2 and met up with 2 > other > couples, one in an MG-TF and the other in a TR-4. It was one of those > perfect > days, sunny, but cool! Given the cool air temperature, I wouldn't have > expected my car to run hot. However, when we got stuck in traffic, and > had > to sit > for a few minutes, the temperature gauge started to climb. This car has > always > run hot! I don't think it has ever caused any damage, as I keep my eye on > the > temp gauge, and if it gets too hot, I just turn the engine off until > traffic > clears, and I can get out on an open road and get the air moving through > the > radiator. Besides, these old beasts are pretty durable! > > So, I've put up with this problem for 15+ years. Enough is enough! I've > decided to do something about it this winter. I've already got a TR-6 > fan, > which > will pull a lot more air through the radiator. While I have the front > apron > off to install the new fan, I'm also thinking about upgrading the > radiator. > My current radiator is completely stock. I had a new core installed when > I > restored the car (15+ years ago), and it doesn't have a lot of miles on > it > (probably less than 10,000). Obviously, it's not quite doing the job. > What > are the > race car guys doing for radiators these days? Does anyone make a high > efficiency aluminum radiator, that is basically the same configuration as > the stock > one, can be bolted right in, without making any modifications to the car, > and > doesn't require taking a second mortgage to pay for it? If something > like > this is available, I think this is probably the answer to my cooling > problem. Do > you know of a source for a radiator like this, or do you know anyone (or > business) who I can contact, who might be able to help? > > Thanks, Joe. > > Jack > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > jsnook_gmi at wcnet.org > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > stutzmans at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Mon Oct 1 19:16:32 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 21:16:32 EDT Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's Message-ID: Isn't Greg Solow's Engine r\Room in your neighborhood? Who could ask for more? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From stlnyc at msn.com Mon Oct 1 19:43:16 2007 From: stlnyc at msn.com (Fred & Mary Hodgson) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 19:43:16 -0600 Subject: [Fot] elgibility question References: Message-ID: Marty- RMVR allows cars thru 1972. Fred Hodgson ----- Original Message ----- From: marty sukey To: FOT Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 9:06 AM Subject: [Fot] elgibility question Hey you folks that run with all the different organizations. What is the current cut off year for vehicle elgibility for your Vintage race groups? Thanks, Marty _________________________________________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m kt=en-us _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html stlnyc at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From m-syork at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 20:17:45 2007 From: m-syork at comcast.net (Mark York) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 19:17:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets In-Reply-To: <11122791.30486841191276824057.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> References: <11122791.30486841191276824057.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <000301c8049a$6c08f460$36b3c547@markv8zno7deim> Thanks to all the input on the figure 8 gaskets, I will tell the shop to proceed with steel. And Bill, I'm putting in a new set of batteries in the cattle prod. The TR3 has been on the shelf for a year (no racing stripes in my nomex underwear); I'm starting to go through withdrawals. Mark -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+m-syork=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+m-syork=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gasket Works USA Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 3:14 PM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets I have made these sealing rings in various thickness. If you look at the surfaces that you need to seal. i.e. the flat in the block and the flat on the sleeve -you can see that they are flat and smooth. I can't see why copper is inherently better at sealing than steel. What I can say is that there will likely be less galvanic effects and material such as brass or copper will work just fine. Even if the the copper were annealed dead soft -I can't believe that the copper would compress and flatten out more than an imperceptable amount. I once saved a cylinder sleave by machining .132" off the top and building a series of individual coppper rings to bring the sleave to propper height. There was still more than enough capture in the block. M M.N.Dunst Gasket Works USA, LLC gmt-8 Pacific time 626.358.1616 voice 626.628.3777 fax Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cak at dimebank.com Mon Oct 1 20:34:53 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 19:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's Message-ID: <200710020234.l922Yr1p021707@moose.dimebank.com> Elgin in Redwood City has a long history of working on little British cars. Dick Nyquist used to swear by Clark's Machine Shop in Mtn View (my listing still has a 415 area code, so it's been a while). I've always gone to Name: Kaeding Performance Address: San Jose, CA Phone: (408) 371-3031 They cater to roundy-round racers, but don't mind working on little engines, too. From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Oct 1 20:37:29 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:37:29 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's References: Message-ID: The rumor is the Engine Room's days are looking @ retirement... hope not. Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: budscars at msn.com ; jeff_durant at comcast.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's Isn't Greg Solow's Engine r\Room in your neighborhood? Who could ask for more? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jeff_durant at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 08:59:54 2007 From: jeff_durant at comcast.net (jeff_durant at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:59:54 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <589333505-1191337292-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1812871117-@bxe016.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Thanks Gary, Bill, Bud, Steve, Kevin and Chuck for the SF area machine shop recommendations! Quite a choice. I best collect up my 3x TR250/6 blocks and make a few calls. I'm excited already as my TR6 has been idle for 12 years. You know the story....the kids are older and when I told the wife I was building my BSA engine to race ARMA in the spring, she told me to race the 6 again. She figured 4 wheels are safer than 2 for my aging bones. What a deal! Just finished 2x wide port heads and a 2nd Stag based CR gearbox. Does anyone have any Kastner 1.88 CR bits? I need a 2nd mainshaft gear for one of his gearsets. Thanks, Jeff TR6 #12 Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "KEVIN LYNCH" Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:37:29 To:,,, Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's The rumor is the Engine Room's days are looking @ retirement... hope not. Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: budscars at msn.com ; jeff_durant at comcast.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's Isn't Greg Solow's Engine r\Room in your neighborhood? Who could ask for more? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 09:09:43 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:09:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 Message-ID: <000001c80506$4358b9d0$171a694c@computer> Would a rear spoiler have a noticeable effect on a TR6 for autocrossing? Would the spoiler cause any eligibility problems for vintage racing? Any thoughts? Thanks, Jim [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From vintage.racer at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 09:48:16 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:48:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 In-Reply-To: <000001c80506$4358b9d0$171a694c@computer> References: <000001c80506$4358b9d0$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <000001c8050b$a68e4560$f3aad020$@racer@comcast.net> Jim: If I recall correctly from a road test article about the Porsche 911 with a deployable spoiler, it actuated at 60 mph which is the speed they felt it would begin to have an effect. I doubt most vintage race organizations would allow a rear spoiler. Gary -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jim hearn Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:10 AM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 Would a rear spoiler have a noticeable effect on a TR6 for autocrossing? Would the spoiler cause any eligibility problems for vintage racing? Any thoughts? Thanks, Jim [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Oct 2 09:53:40 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:53:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/02/2007 10:48:32 AM Central Daylight Time, vintage.racer at comcast.net writes: > If I recall correctly from a road test article about the Porsche 911 with a > deployable spoiler, it actuated at 60 mph which is the speed they felt it > would begin to have an effect. I doubt most vintage race organizations > would allow a rear spoiler. > > Most vintage groups don't want fender flairs, I doubt they will allow a spoiler. I would be against allowing them. My wife has a very early Chrysler Crossfire (two digit serial number). It too has a rear spoiler that pops up automatically at about 57 mph. It looks really neat, but I have no idea how effective it is. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Tue Oct 2 09:57:15 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:57:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 References: <000001c80506$4358b9d0$171a694c@computer> <000001c8050b$a68e4560$f3aad020$@racer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001401c8050c$e79c5d70$0501000a@Chowdown> It would help if the car was aerodynamic to begin with. ~S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Horstkorta" To: "'jim hearn'" ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 > Jim: > > If I recall correctly from a road test article about the Porsche 911 with > a > deployable spoiler, it actuated at 60 mph which is the speed they felt it > would begin to have an effect. I doubt most vintage race organizations > would allow a rear spoiler. > > Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > jim hearn > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:10 AM > To: FOT at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 > > Would a rear spoiler have a noticeable effect on a TR6 for autocrossing? > Would the spoiler cause any eligibility problems for vintage racing? Any > thoughts? Thanks, Jim > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a > name of winmail.dat] > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vintage.racer at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 10:04:58 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:04:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 In-Reply-To: <001401c8050c$e79c5d70$0501000a@Chowdown> References: <000001c80506$4358b9d0$171a694c@computer> <000001c8050b$a68e4560$f3aad020$@racer@comcast.net> <001401c8050c$e79c5d70$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <000a01c8050d$fbd73d40$f385b7c0$@racer@comcast.net> Steve: Good one...thus the nickname of my racing TR4 - "The Flying Brick". Gary -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Belfer Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:57 AM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 It would help if the car was aerodynamic to begin with. ~S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Horstkorta" To: "'jim hearn'" ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 > Jim: > > If I recall correctly from a road test article about the Porsche 911 with > a > deployable spoiler, it actuated at 60 mph which is the speed they felt it > would begin to have an effect. I doubt most vintage race organizations > would allow a rear spoiler. > > Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > jim hearn > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:10 AM > To: FOT at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 > > Would a rear spoiler have a noticeable effect on a TR6 for autocrossing? > Would the spoiler cause any eligibility problems for vintage racing? Any > thoughts? Thanks, Jim > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a > name of winmail.dat] > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Tue Oct 2 10:08:46 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:08:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 References: Message-ID: <00c501c8050e$82e0a2e0$5717c548@RW> On pages starting at 187 of my Historical and Technical Guide (book two) I did a recap and photos of the testing of a rear spoiler I did for the TR-6. back in 1970. It was absolutely marvelous. This was race track testing so I cannot account for slower speeds but in turn 8 & 9 at Willow Springs, it took all the "hee-haw" out of the fast corners. It looked great also. The SCCA would not allow it, and none were ever listed even after my time at Triumph. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 > In a message dated 10/02/2007 10:48:32 AM Central Daylight Time, > vintage.racer at comcast.net writes: > > >> If I recall correctly from a road test article about the Porsche 911 with >> a >> deployable spoiler, it actuated at 60 mph which is the speed they felt it >> would begin to have an effect. I doubt most vintage race organizations >> would allow a rear spoiler. >> >> > > Most vintage groups don't want fender flairs, I doubt they will allow a > spoiler. I would be against allowing them. > > My wife has a very early Chrysler Crossfire (two digit serial number). It > too has a rear spoiler that pops up automatically at about 57 mph. It > looks > really neat, but I have no idea how effective it is. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Tue Oct 2 10:36:03 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:36:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tran-x Message-ID: <01f601c80512$5305fa30$1a02a8c0@workstation3> FoTers, we have 6 commitments for the Tran-x lsd's. They are going to be shipped via ship and we have several of weeks before they will be sent. So I guess we're making the last call for units if anyone else is interested. If so let me or ken know ASAP so we can get them ordered. Thanks, Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 2 10:43:10 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:43:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: FOT....I am in the process of updating the lists of the Watkins Glen drivers and attendees. I will submit this list to Henry Frye for addition to the FOT Website, after a couple more passes at it. Please read carefully!!!! There is getting to more and more interest from the west coast. If you have any inclination at all, let me hear from you. I heard from a couple of guys in SoCal yesterday and added their names. I have not heard from John James, yet, but expect to. Please read the note below from Ron Jacobs in NorCal....he has a potential transport for his car and three more. ....................................THIS MAY OPEN THE DOOR FOR A FEW MORE TRIUMPHS................... Joe Alexander > Joe: > I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa Racing in > Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern > California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to the Glen. I need > about three other cars to make it very cost effective for transport and a > crew. If any one is interested please contact me. > Ron Jacobs > Western Eagle Racing > -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- > > From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 2 10:55:11 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:55:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1DDFFE79-7D15-4EE9-AE8B-B660E5913373@bnj.com> The most attractive way to do this race for west coasters (I think) is to do the Glen, and then the weekend after do Road America's fall festival--Two great tracks with great racing towns associated with them in two weeks. It will spoil you for life--you'll be looking for that at every track you go to, and never finding anything close. In fact you can do the Zippo at Limerock, the Glen, and RA in a three week sweep. Of the three, I plan to do the Glen and RA. On Oct 2, 2007, at 9:43 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FOT....I am in the process of updating the lists of the Watkins > Glen drivers > and attendees. I will submit this list to Henry Frye for addition > to the FOT > Website, after a couple more passes at it. > > Please read carefully!!!! There is getting to more and more > interest from > the west coast. If you have any inclination at all, let me hear > from you. I > heard from a couple of guys in SoCal yesterday and added their > names. I have > not heard from John James, yet, but expect to. > > Please read the note below from Ron Jacobs in NorCal....he has a > potential > transport for his car and three > more. ....................................THIS > MAY OPEN THE DOOR FOR A FEW MORE TRIUMPHS................... > > Joe Alexander > >> Joe: >> I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa >> Racing in >> Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern >> California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to >> the Glen. I need >> about three other cars to make it very cost effective for >> transport and a >> crew. If any one is interested please contact me. >> Ron Jacobs >> Western Eagle Racing >> -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Oct 2 11:03:55 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:03:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser failures In-Reply-To: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Sep 2007, Jack W. Drews wrote: [good stuff deleted]> > Huh. Ididn't know there were two series of points. For the Dizzy that I have there are two points numbers, 25042 and 25042X - the "x" designation is for high RPM operation. > uncle jack regards, rml (about two weeks behind!) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Oct 2 11:06:16 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:06:16 -0600 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <188C216C-F04F-4F8D-AC7F-FEC66EF192B7@earthlink.net> Joe, Put me on the list. I may have to forsake a few other out of town events but this sounds too good to pass up - especially if I include Road America in a eastern "tour". Greg Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Oct 2, 2007, at 10:43 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FOT....I am in the process of updating the lists of the Watkins > Glen drivers > and attendees. I will submit this list to Henry Frye for addition > to the FOT > Website, after a couple more passes at it. > > Please read carefully!!!! There is getting to more and more > interest from > the west coast. If you have any inclination at all, let me hear > from you. I > heard from a couple of guys in SoCal yesterday and added their > names. I have > not heard from John James, yet, but expect to. > > Please read the note below from Ron Jacobs in NorCal....he has a > potential > transport for his car and three > more. ....................................THIS > MAY OPEN THE DOOR FOR A FEW MORE TRIUMPHS................... > > Joe Alexander > >> Joe: >> I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa >> Racing in >> Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern >> California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to >> the Glen. I need >> about three other cars to make it very cost effective for >> transport and a >> crew. If any one is interested please contact me. >> Ron Jacobs >> Western Eagle Racing >> -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > lunkercars at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Oct 2 11:13:42 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:13:42 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/02/2007 11:55:50 AM Central Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: > The most attractive way to do this race for west coasters (I think) > is to do the Glen, and then the weekend after do Road America's fall > festival--Two great tracks with great racing towns associated with > them in two weeks. It will spoil you for life--you'll be looking for > that at every track you go to, and never finding anything close. In > fact you can do the Zippo at Limerock, the Glen, and RA in a three > week sweep. Of the three, I plan to do the Glen and RA. > > While that is a great idea...next year there will be a week end between ZIPPO WATKINS GLEN and the ELKHART LAKE VINTAGE FESTIVAL. This happens because the GLEN event has floating dates (always the week end after Labor Day), whereas the ELVF has a firm week end number every year. Usually ELVF follows ZIPPO the next week end, but every once in a while (including 2008) there is a week end in between. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From John.Reed at wilson.com Tue Oct 2 12:55:35 2007 From: John.Reed at wilson.com (John.Reed at wilson.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:55:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Maybe I should come out of retirement for this one, I always wanted to race The Glen. Put me in as a maybe. Regards, John Reed Staff Photographer Wilson Sporting Goods Co. 8750 W Bryn Mawr Ave, Chicago, Illinois 60631, USA Tel. + 1.773.714.6895, fax +1.773.714.4585 John.Reed at wilson.com www.wilson.com www.amersports.com Please note that effective immediately, my e-mail , phone number and street address have changed. Please update your files accordingly. This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 2 13:17:56 2007 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:17:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-racing TR Events? Message-ID: Are any events scheduled for non-racing Trs? Track touring, old course tour, car show, ??? Maybe I should take The Blue TR3 if Steve will let me do some activities. John From JWoesvra at aol.com Tue Oct 2 13:23:36 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 15:23:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-racing TR Events? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/2/2007 3:18:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jrherrera90 at hotmail.com writes: Are any events scheduled for non-racing Trs? Track touring, old course tour, car show, ??? Maybe I should take The Blue TR3 if Steve will let me do some activities. John _______________________________________________ There are plenty of off-track activities including car shows, ralleys, winery tours, etc. These are handled by the Watkins Glen Festival and you will need to contact them directly. Triumph is the featured marque for the festival too. _http://www.grandprixfestival.com/participant.html_ (http://www.grandprixfestival.com/participant.html) These events always sell out. It is not too soon to sign up. Jack Woehrle ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 2 13:32:29 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 15:32:29 EDT Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-Racing TR Events? Message-ID: John! >From some very early correspondence with SVRA, it was my understanding that the Village of Watkins Glen was going to pay special attention to the TRIUMPH marque. I dont know what the status is of that planning is, but we need it for the press releases, that GRM (Tim Suddard's Group) is going to write for us. Seems like there is always a car show. I am not sure about track touring, but certainly this should be proposed for the FOT and their TRIUMPH Guests. Old Course Touring is highly unlikely, but it wont hurt to ask. There no plans for autocrossing that I am aware of. This was highly successful at Road America, last May, but that was horse of a completely different color. This is a very good inquiry, John. Thanks for asking. Joe Alexander > > Are any events scheduled for non-racing Trs? Track touring, old course tour, > car show, ??? Maybe I should take The Blue TR3 if Steve will let me do some > activities. > > John > From sgroh1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 14:02:48 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (sgroh1 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:02:48 +0000 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: <100220072002.19225.4702A3E8000483BA00004B192213484373CE08019D099C@comcast.net> Joe, I will definitely be attending in my 63 Spit. Also attending will be a crew of 5. Thanks - it promises to be a great event!!! Steve Groh Annapolis, MD #393 SVRA 63 Spitfire -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: N197TR4 at cs.com > FOT....I am in the process of updating the lists of the Watkins Glen drivers > and attendees. I will submit this list to Henry Frye for addition to the FOT > Website, after a couple more passes at it. > > Please read carefully!!!! There is getting to more and more interest from > the west coast. If you have any inclination at all, let me hear from you. I > heard from a couple of guys in SoCal yesterday and added their names. I have > not heard from John James, yet, but expect to. > > Please read the note below from Ron Jacobs in NorCal....he has a potential > transport for his car and three more. ....................................THIS > MAY OPEN THE DOOR FOR A FEW MORE TRIUMPHS................... > > Joe Alexander > > > Joe: > > I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa Racing in > > Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern > > California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to the Glen. I > need > > about three other cars to make it very cost effective for transport and a > > crew. If any one is interested please contact me. > > Ron Jacobs > > Western Eagle Racing > > -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From sgroh1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 14:15:26 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (sgroh1 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:15:26 +0000 Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-racing TR Events? Message-ID: <100220072015.8327.4702A6DE00015325000020872213484373CE08019D099C@comcast.net> John - We'll tow up together....Crew chief position is yours if you want it....which means plenty of opportunity to delegate as you see fit in order to get the TR3 out and about! Looking forward to it! Steve -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "John Herrera" > Are any events scheduled for non-racing Trs? Track touring, old course tour, > car show, ??? Maybe I should take The Blue TR3 if Steve will let me do some > activities. > > John > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 2 14:16:06 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:16:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-Racing TR Events? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <879E6FC0-AB3A-4AC4-8B03-CA040583FAB9@bnj.com> Actually, old course touring is part of the event--they take 150 cars downtown and the featured marque gets one lap by themselves, the rest get two. I did it this time in Peyote, it was fun, and I'd definitely do it again. On Oct 2, 2007, at 12:32 PM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > John! > >> From some very early correspondence with SVRA, it was my >> understanding that > the Village of Watkins Glen was going to pay special attention to > the TRIUMPH > marque. I dont know what the status is of that planning is, but we > need it for > the press releases, that GRM (Tim Suddard's Group) is going to > write for us. > > Seems like there is always a car show. I am not sure about track > touring, but > certainly this should be proposed for the FOT and their TRIUMPH > Guests. > > Old Course Touring is highly unlikely, but it wont hurt to ask. > > There no plans for autocrossing that I am aware of. This was highly > successful at Road America, last May, but that was horse of a > completely different > color. > > This is a very good inquiry, John. Thanks for asking. > > Joe Alexander > > >> >> Are any events scheduled for non-racing Trs? Track touring, old >> course tour, >> car show, ??? Maybe I should take The Blue TR3 if Steve will let >> me do some >> activities. >> >> John >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 2 14:23:16 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:23:16 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: OK Steve, I have you on the list.... I am begining to wonder what the Grid Limit is. Anybody know? Joe Alexander > Joe, > > I will definitely be attending in my 63 Spit. Also attending will be a crew > of 5. > > Thanks - it promises to be a great event!!! > > Steve Groh > Annapolis, MD > #393 SVRA > 63 Spitfire > > From emanteno at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 14:28:17 2007 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:28:17 +0000 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: <100220072028.24013.4702A9E1000C198900005DCD2207021053970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: N197TR4 at cs.com > OK Steve, > > I have you on the list.... > > I am begining to wonder what the Grid Limit is. They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many and someone will figure how to get them all on the track. Irv Korey From sgroh1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 14:32:18 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (sgroh1 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:32:18 +0000 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: <100220072032.2578.4702AAD2000944B700000A122213484373CE08019D099C@comcast.net> I think SCCA's GCR recommends no more than 25 per mile of track....roughly 82 then for the Glen full course.....it's the only reg I know of, though, there may be more..... Steve -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: emanteno at comcast.net > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > > > OK Steve, > > > > I have you on the list.... > > > > I am begining to wonder what the Grid Limit is. > > They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many and > someone will figure how to get them all on the track. Irv Korey From: emanteno at comcast.net To: N197TR4 at cs.com, sgroh1 at comcast.net, westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 20:28:18 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from Multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/html -------------- Original message -------------- From: N197TR4 at cs.com > OK Steve, > > I have you on the list.... > > I am begining to wonder what the Grid Limit is. They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many and someone will figure how to get them all on the track. Irv Korey From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 2 14:32:28 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:32:28 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: > They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many > and someone will figure how to get them all on the track. > Irv Korey > egads! staggered starts? OK! We also need to put more pressure on the Brit's....they might be resting on their laurels after VIR. indication are that they are looking forward to 2012 for the 60TH TRIUMPH REUNION, but that is too long to wait, especially fior some of us. Joe A From JWoesvra at aol.com Tue Oct 2 14:35:25 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:35:25 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/2/2007 4:32:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sgroh1 at comcast.net writes: I think SCCA's GCR recommends no more than 25 per mile of track....roughly 82 then for the Glen full course.....it's the only reg I know of, though, there may be more..... That is SCCA. SVRA does not have a limit except practicality. BRING IT ON! ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 2 14:54:29 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <59923.97578.qm@web57614.mail.re1.yahoo.com> No staggered starts. Just split the Triumphs into two qualifing groups and then have a two short qualifing races (heats), with a consolation and feature race like the dirt track guys. I'm sure the other groups won't mind. Ernie N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many > and someone will figure how to get them all on the track. > Irv Korey > egads! staggered starts? --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Tue Oct 2 15:57:17 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <59923.97578.qm@web57614.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <625757.18371.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and run under current SCCA regulations. Ernest Husmann wrote: No staggered starts. Just split the Triumphs into two qualifing groups and then have a two short qualifing races (heats), with a consolation and feature race like the dirt track guys. I'm sure the other groups won't mind. Ernie N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many > and someone will figure how to get them all on the track. > Irv Korey > egads! staggered starts? --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! jaxonracing at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! From JWoesvra at aol.com Tue Oct 2 16:00:49 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 18:00:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and run under current SCCA regulations. We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage standards. The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national championship and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From trmarty at hotmail.com Tue Oct 2 16:13:35 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 18:13:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-Racing TR Events? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lets find that horse and paint BRG. Marty There no plans for autocrossing that I am aware of. This was highly successful at Road America, last May, but that was horse of a completely different color. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook  together at last. Get it now. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL100626971 033 From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 2 16:28:52 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 15:28:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D6A8D4D-6D0C-4B0C-B999-1EF7B913BB93@bnj.com> Damn (Dinger) On Oct 2, 2007, at 10:13 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/02/2007 11:55:50 AM Central Daylight Time, > billb at bnj.com writes: > > >> The most attractive way to do this race for west coasters (I think) >> is to do the Glen, and then the weekend after do Road America's fall >> festival--Two great tracks with great racing towns associated with >> them in two weeks. It will spoil you for life--you'll be looking for >> that at every track you go to, and never finding anything close. In >> fact you can do the Zippo at Limerock, the Glen, and RA in a three >> week sweep. Of the three, I plan to do the Glen and RA. >> > > > While that is a great idea...next year there will be a week end > between ZIPPO WATKINS GLEN and the ELKHART LAKE VINTAGE FESTIVAL. > This happens because the GLEN event has floating dates (always the > week end after Labor Day), whereas the ELVF has a firm week end > number every year. Usually ELVF follows ZIPPO the next week end, > but every once in a while (including 2008) there is a week end in > between. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Tue Oct 2 20:36:54 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 19:36:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's References: Message-ID: <016401c80566$435c88c0$6401a8c0@TER2> We are not planning on retirement from working on TRs anytime soon! Greg Solow The Engine Room ----- Original Message ----- From: "KEVIN LYNCH" To: ; ; ; Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's > The rumor is the Engine Room's days are looking @ retirement... hope not. > Kevin > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gt6steve at aol.com > To: budscars at msn.com ; > jeff_durant at comcast.net ; > fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 7:16 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's > > > Isn't Greg Solow's Engine r\Room in your neighborhood? Who could ask for > more? > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > klynch_6 at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot stinfo/fot> > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fasttrs at mindspring.com Tue Oct 2 20:46:23 2007 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 22:46:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs 1900 pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a higher level than what SCCA does. The cars from England are another story altogether. Mike Munson Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and run under current SCCA regulations. We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage standards. The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national championship and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director From kaskas at cox.net Tue Oct 2 21:12:02 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 20:12:02 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 References: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> Message-ID: <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Munson" To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > 1900 > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > higher level than what SCCA does. > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > Mike Munson > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > run > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > standards. > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > championship > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From stlnyc at msn.com Tue Oct 2 21:25:56 2007 From: stlnyc at msn.com (Fred & Mary Hodgson) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 21:25:56 -0600 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 References: Message-ID: Joe- Does anyone know what entry fees will be for the event? I'm trying to plan for this myself. Fred Hodgson ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:43 AM Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 FOT....I am in the process of updating the lists of the Watkins Glen drivers and attendees. I will submit this list to Henry Frye for addition to the FOT Website, after a couple more passes at it. Please read carefully!!!! There is getting to more and more interest from the west coast. If you have any inclination at all, let me hear from you. I heard from a couple of guys in SoCal yesterday and added their names. I have not heard from John James, yet, but expect to. Please read the note below from Ron Jacobs in NorCal....he has a potential transport for his car and three more. ..................................THIS MAY OPEN THE DOOR FOR A FEW MORE TRIUMPHS.................. Joe Alexander > Joe: > I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa Racing in > Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern > California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to the Glen. I need > about three other cars to make it very cost effective for transport and a > crew. If any one is interested please contact me. > Ron Jacobs > Western Eagle Racing > -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- > > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html stlnyc at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 23:57:46 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 22:57:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Correct camber on the front end? Message-ID: <000001c80582$52e50fd0$171a694c@computer> On my '74 TR6, I have approximately a negative 1 > degree camber with shims on both front wheels. After an autocross run, the temperature difference between the hotter outside and cooler inside of the tire is 7 to 8 degrees F on the side of the car with higher tire temperatures and around 5 degrees F between hotter outside and cooler inside of the tire on the other side of the car. I have two questions: First, is this close enough to the correct camber and if not, what do I do to get more negative camber since I believe I am at the limit with shims? [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Wed Oct 3 00:22:12 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoffrey Byrne) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:22:12 +1000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Crank Main Bearing Bolts Message-ID: <002601c80585$bd246f50$41e3efdc@co3017577a> Friends Can you guys in the States tell me what ARP main bearing cap bolts/studs you are using on TR6 motors , part number etc . I need some for a new motor... which by the way has a steel billet crank made in Aus Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under From cartravel at pobox.com Wed Oct 3 06:49:02 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 07:49:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> References: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> Message-ID: <47038FBE.3030906@pobox.com> If you remember there was a huge discussion on this for the Hallett event in Oklahoma. CVAR is relatively strict about vintage prep. We finally got the CVAR powers to make a one time exception for an event such as this. They even agreed to allow wedges which are beyond our cutoff date. All of the organizations we've done a challenge with have agreed to this type exception. SVRA should also. This is not a case of lowering standards. It is a one time exception for a special event, so we can run all Triumphs. Didn't SVRA sanction the MidOhio event in 2002? Everyone was allowed to run there. Mike Munson wrote: > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs 1900 > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > higher level than what SCCA does. > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > Mike Munson > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and run > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > standards. > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > championship > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > cartravel at pobox.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From JWoesvra at aol.com Wed Oct 3 07:23:39 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:23:39 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/3/2007 8:49:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cartravel at pobox.com writes: If you remember there was a huge discussion on this for the Hallett event in Oklahoma. CVAR is relatively strict about vintage prep. We finally got the CVAR powers to make a one time exception for an event such as this. They even agreed to allow wedges which are beyond our cutoff date. All of the organizations we've done a challenge with have agreed to this type exception. SVRA should also. This is not a case of lowering standards. It is a one time exception for a special event, so we can run all Triumphs. Didn't SVRA sanction the MidOhio event in 2002? Everyone was allowed to run there. Let me "clarify" this issue. First, SVRA has regular race groups which accommodate everything Triumph ever built. That includes TR8's prepared as SCCA C-Production cars and IMSA GTO cars. TR7's are welcome in Group 8 on treaded tires. We have a place for Dolomites, 2000 sedans, even Stags if race prepared. What we do not have a place for is earlier cars that are prepared to current SCCA specifications. These cars do not fit in any of our Groups. They are not "vintage" cars. Keep in mind that The Zippo race is not a small club type event where we might be inclined to accept everyone. The Zippo is the largest Vintage race in the USA and this year the readers of Vintage Motorsport voted it the Best Vintage Event, with Monterey being second. (Try to get in there with a TR!). Because of the worldwide exposure we cannot go far outside the "vintage" standard. I will consider all requests for entry but I don't see a place for current SCCA club race cars. Jack Woehrle ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Oct 3 07:36:01 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:36:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?KASTNER_CUP_CHALLENGE_-_WATKINS_GLEN=A0_2008?= Message-ID: yeah, I would have to go with Mike here. To say that an SCCA car is not eligible opens up a hole can of worms. The guys from England ran some pretty radical stuff. I am not saying I want to run against a whole bunch of wild cars, but they could get their own class or group. You could play the SVRA does not allow it card, but I race with SVRA and see fiberglass doors on 911s and all kind of stuff. Don't mean to be a rabble rouser, but a standard no here might need to be given a second look. And, I am speaking as a competitor, not as a sponsor. I got involved to help out the club, not to flood the Glen with Triumphs and amass a fortune. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 3 09:04:50 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:04:50 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: I would like to nominate my friend Tom Deats to FoT. Tom is from Littleton CO and a very active member of RMVR and Nostalgia Racing. He is currently racing a very fast FP Bugeye [that he graciously let me co-drive in the Pueblo Enduro last weekend] but owns a TR3 and has been a dedicated TR guy for decades. He is considering putting together a TR racer and is very interested in getting on the list. Seconds from you RMVR folks that know him? Greg Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From BillDentin at aol.com Wed Oct 3 09:26:01 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:26:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/03/2007 8:24:37 AM Central Daylight Time, JWoesvra at aol.com writes: > First, SVRA has regular race groups which accommodate everything Triumph > ever built. > > That includes TR8's prepared as SCCA C-Production cars and IMSA GTO cars. > > TR7's are welcome in Group 8 on treaded tires. > > We have a place for Dolomites, 2000 sedans, even Stags if race prepared. > > What we do not have a place for is earlier cars that are prepared to > current > SCCA specifications. These cars do not fit in any of our Groups. They are > not "vintage" cars. > > Keep in mind that The Zippo race is not a small club type event where we > might be inclined to accept everyone. > > The Zippo is the largest Vintage race in the USA and this year the readers > of Vintage Motorsport voted it the Best Vintage Event, with Monterey being > second. (Try to get in there with a TR!). > > Because of the worldwide exposure we cannot go far outside the "vintage" > standard. > > I will consider all requests for entry but I don't see a place for current > SCCA club race cars. > Amici... Personally, it is not a big issue for me. As I work my way to the back of the pack, I am both used to and comfortable being on the track with faster cars. I'll have no issue if TRIUMPHs prepared to current specs are approved. But there are other issues. SVRA has always been more than accommodating. But as Jack points out, the ZIPPO event at the GLEN is MAJOR and has a ton of aspects that require attention and consideration over and above their featured marques. And, of course, it is a vintage event. Any wholesale bending of the rules can also complicate the award of the KASTNER CUP (which came about well after the SVRA 1992 MID-OHIO event). The KASTNER CUP is a performance award, and has been awarded to racers in 'vintage' race cars. That gets sticky when you include modern cars in the mix. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From billb at bnj.com Wed Oct 3 09:33:01 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:33:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E02DD7F-46C2-4EFC-BEFD-666B8DD4DDD1@bnj.com> True, except Kas has always made it clear that performance is an ASPECT of the award. I have to admit my only reason for wiggling so hard is that I think Mike Munson is a great guy, and I like seeing him race. On Oct 3, 2007, at 8:26 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/03/2007 8:24:37 AM Central Daylight Time, > JWoesvra at aol.com writes: > > >> First, SVRA has regular race groups which accommodate everything >> Triumph >> ever built. >> >> That includes TR8's prepared as SCCA C-Production cars and IMSA >> GTO cars. >> >> TR7's are welcome in Group 8 on treaded tires. >> >> We have a place for Dolomites, 2000 sedans, even Stags if race >> prepared. >> >> What we do not have a place for is earlier cars that are prepared to >> current >> SCCA specifications. These cars do not fit in any of our Groups. >> They are >> not "vintage" cars. >> >> Keep in mind that The Zippo race is not a small club type event >> where we >> might be inclined to accept everyone. >> >> The Zippo is the largest Vintage race in the USA and this year the >> readers >> of Vintage Motorsport voted it the Best Vintage Event, with >> Monterey being >> second. (Try to get in there with a TR!). >> >> Because of the worldwide exposure we cannot go far outside the >> "vintage" >> standard. >> >> I will consider all requests for entry but I don't see a place for >> current >> SCCA club race cars. >> > > Amici... > > Personally, it is not a big issue for me. As I work my way to the > back of > the pack, I am both used to and comfortable being on the track with > faster cars. > I'll have no issue if TRIUMPHs prepared to current specs are > approved. But > there are other issues. > > SVRA has always been more than accommodating. But as Jack points > out, the > ZIPPO event at the GLEN is MAJOR and has a ton of aspects that > require attention > and consideration over and above their featured marques. And, of > course, it > is a vintage event. > > Any wholesale bending of the rules can also complicate the award of > the > KASTNER CUP (which came about well after the SVRA 1992 MID-OHIO > event). The > KASTNER CUP is a performance award, and has been awarded to racers > in 'vintage' race > cars. That gets sticky when you include modern cars in the mix. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From klynch_6 at msn.com Wed Oct 3 09:39:16 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:39:16 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: Message-ID: I will second that nomination as I know Tom to be a real competitor & active in some of the RMVR car shows I've organized. Am surprised & excited to learn he's preparing a TR to race as he's quicker than stink in that damn Bugeye! Kev Lynch RMVR #6 GT-6 ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer To: FOT Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:04 AM Subject: [Fot] Nomination I would like to nominate my friend Tom Deats to FoT. Tom is from Littleton CO and a very active member of RMVR and Nostalgia Racing. He is currently racing a very fast FP Bugeye [that he graciously let me co-drive in the Pueblo Enduro last weekend] but owns a TR3 and has been a dedicated TR guy for decades. He is considering putting together a TR racer and is very interested in getting on the list. Seconds from you RMVR folks that know him? Greg Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 3 09:52:14 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:52:14 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: Ya! Bugeyes are cute and fast. But, a TR3A is more of a 'Hair On The Chest' race car. The TR3A racers are a great fraternity and to be encouraged. Hope he gathers some momentum on this project in time for the Glen. > I will second that nomination as I know Tom to be a real competitor & > active > in some of the RMVR car shows I've organized. Am surprised & excited to > learn > he's preparing a TR to race as he's quicker than stink in that damn Bugeye! > Kev Lynch > RMVR > #6 GT-6 > From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 3 10:04:52 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:04:52 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I do have to stress the word "considering" building a TR racer. I'm sure it would be some time in the future, but enthusiasm from the list will certainly help. Tom's e-mail is TomD4760 at aol.com Does this need to be forwarded to the webmaster to get him on? Greg On Oct 3, 2007, at 9:39 AM, KEVIN LYNCH wrote: > I will second that nomination as I know Tom to be a real > competitor & active in some of the RMVR car shows I've organized. > Am surprised & excited to learn he's preparing a TR to race as he's > quicker than stink in that damn Bugeye! > Kev Lynch > RMVR > #6 GT-6 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > To: FOT > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:04 AM > Subject: [Fot] Nomination > > I would like to nominate my friend Tom Deats to FoT. Tom is from > Littleton CO and a very active member of RMVR and Nostalgia Racing. > He is currently racing a very fast FP Bugeye [that he graciously let > me co-drive in the Pueblo Enduro last weekend] but owns a TR3 and has > been a dedicated TR guy for decades. He is considering putting > together a TR racer and is very interested in getting on the list. > Seconds from you RMVR folks that know him? > Greg Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > klynch_6 at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Wed Oct 3 12:18:49 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:18:49 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <20071003.122100.836.3.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Tom is good people! This will give us something to pick on him about to get him to do up a proper TR effort. I second, wholeheartedly. Bill 70 GT-6+ On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:04:50 -0600 "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" writes: > I would like to nominate my friend Tom Deats to FoT. Tom is from > Littleton CO and a very active member of RMVR and Nostalgia Racing. > > He is currently racing a very fast FP Bugeye [that he graciously let > > me co-drive in the Pueblo Enduro last weekend] but owns a TR3 and > has > been a dedicated TR guy for decades. He is considering putting > together a TR racer and is very interested in getting on the list. > Seconds from you RMVR folks that know him? > Greg Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Wed Oct 3 12:54:14 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (CHARLES DELAUER) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 18:54:14 +0000 Subject: [Fot] NOMINATION OF NEW MEMBER BOB FRANK Message-ID: Hi Gang I am nominating BOB 'HACKSAW' FRANK to the FOT..Bob is a vintage racer and good friend of mine, Bob recently sold his MGB vintage racecar and is moving to the Triumph Camp Please second my nomination of Bob Frank of Novato, Ca. to Friends of Triumph. Thanks Racer Bud Spitfire #21 Sonoma, Ca From billb at bnj.com Wed Oct 3 12:58:19 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:58:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] NOMINATION OF NEW MEMBER BOB FRANK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow. A double benefit. I second On Oct 3, 2007, at 11:54 AM, CHARLES DELAUER wrote: > Hi Gang I am nominating BOB 'HACKSAW' FRANK to the FOT..Bob is a > vintage > racer and good friend of mine, Bob recently sold his MGB vintage > racecar and > is moving to the Triumph Camp > Please second my nomination of Bob Frank of Novato, Ca. to Friends of > Triumph. > Thanks > Racer Bud Spitfire #21 Sonoma, Ca > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 3 13:31:25 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] NOMINATION OF NEW MEMBER BOB FRANK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <229144.62889.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> I am a bit curious about the name "Hacksaw"? CHARLES DELAUER wrote: Hi Gang I am nominating BOB 'HACKSAW' FRANK to the FOT..Bob is a vintage racer and good friend of mine, Bob recently sold his MGB vintage racecar and is moving to the Triumph Camp Please second my nomination of Bob Frank of Novato, Ca. to Friends of Triumph. Thanks Racer Bud Spitfire #21 Sonoma, Ca ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Wed Oct 3 13:52:56 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:52:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Alignment tools for TR6 Message-ID: <000b01c805f6$fe5d24f0$171a694c@computer> What are some good (preferably cheap and/or homemade) alignment tools for toe and camber? When the string is used to measure toe, what part of the car is it set up as parallel to? Is this way of measuring toe better than measuring the tire/wheel comparing back to front? Thanks for any tips guys, Jim [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Wed Oct 3 14:56:48 2007 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:56:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: a slow motion look at the inside of a running engine cylinder Message-ID: Cool video of a cylinder while running. I don't know any of the details, but not something you see very often. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5815350492893860613&hl=en From billb at bnj.com Wed Oct 3 15:34:25 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:34:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FW: a slow motion look at the inside of a running engine cylinder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Pretty cool--I'd like to see more of the exhaust cycle. There's a video around somewhere of the bottom end of a wet sump engine running. It looks like a hurricane in a box. On Oct 3, 2007, at 1:56 PM, Doug Mitchell wrote: > Cool video of a cylinder while running. I don't know any of the > details, but not something you see very often. > > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5815350492893860613&hl=en > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Wed Oct 3 15:22:39 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:22:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] NOMINATION OF NEW MEMBER BOB FRANK References: <229144.62889.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: HACKSAW is Bob's Gang name from THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang.. Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Husmann To: CHARLES DELAUER ; Fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] NOMINATION OF NEW MEMBER BOB FRANK I am a bit curious about the name "Hacksaw"? CHARLES DELAUER wrote: Hi Gang I am nominating BOB 'HACKSAW' FRANK to the FOT..Bob is a vintage racer and good friend of mine, Bob recently sold his MGB vintage racecar and is moving to the Triumph Camp Please second my nomination of Bob Frank of Novato, Ca. to Friends of Triumph. Thanks Racer Bud Spitfire #21 Sonoma, Ca _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! From Roadandtrack at bigpond.com Wed Oct 3 16:04:10 2007 From: Roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 08:04:10 +1000 Subject: [Fot] roller rockers TR6 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c80609$53c65bc0$0301010a@purplebox> Can I please have some comments on the various brands of roller rockers being sold in the USA. I am in need of a set for a project TR6 engine and would like a bit of feedback on good/bad experiences with the various types, eg, any troubles with the bushed type ones?? If anyone has a set for sale, please let me know. Thanks, Terry O'Beirne From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 3 16:11:40 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:11:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] roller rockers TR6 In-Reply-To: <000001c80609$53c65bc0$0301010a@purplebox> References: <000001c80609$53c65bc0$0301010a@purplebox> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710031511o4e01a5dbq26ee4107d406cd13@mail.gmail.com> Been very happy with the set I got from Ted Schumaker at TSI [1.5 ratio] On 10/3/07, Terry and Cindy wrote: > > Can I please have some comments on the various brands of roller rockers > being sold in the USA. I am in need of a set for a project TR6 engine > and would like a bit of feedback on good/bad experiences with the > various types, eg, any troubles with the bushed type ones?? > If anyone has a set for sale, please let me know. > Thanks, Terry O'Beirne > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Wed Oct 3 16:24:59 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:24:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tran-x References: <01f601c80512$5305fa30$1a02a8c0@workstation3> <4704113E.2000002@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <02f501c8060c$3cad8c80$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Greg I believe this is correct, these are the Salisbury design as bought by a group in Germany. To be sure I would direct your questions to Ken Gilanders and he will be able to answer it. Telephone/Fax: 626-443-0939 Email: bfeken at copper.net Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "greg" To: "Charly Mitchel" Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Tran-x > Are these Salisbury clutch type and if so are they the proper 4 pinion > design? Two pinion won't hold up to the TR weight and torque. > Thanks, > Greg > > Charly Mitchel wrote: > > FoTers, > > we have 6 commitments for the Tran-x lsd's. They are going to be shipped via > > ship and we have several of weeks before they will be sent. So I guess we're > > making the last call for units if anyone else is interested. If so let me or > > ken know ASAP so we can get them ordered. > > Thanks, > > Charly Mitchel > > TR6 #44 > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > gtlund at cyberspeedway.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 3 16:30:40 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:30:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tran-x In-Reply-To: <02f501c8060c$3cad8c80$1a02a8c0@workstation3> References: <01f601c80512$5305fa30$1a02a8c0@workstation3> <4704113E.2000002@cyberspeedway.net> <02f501c8060c$3cad8c80$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710031530k4e8b13eaj23743ae4fe096582@mail.gmail.com> See:http://www.tran-x.com/DiffsHTML/TR6.html for a picture Chuck On 10/3/07, Charly Mitchel wrote: > > Greg I believe this is correct, these are the Salisbury design as bought > by > a group in Germany. To be sure I would direct your questions to Ken > Gilanders and he will be able to answer it. > Telephone/Fax: 626-443-0939 > Email: bfeken at copper.net > > Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "greg" > To: "Charly Mitchel" > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:01 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Tran-x > > > > Are these Salisbury clutch type and if so are they the proper 4 pinion > > design? Two pinion won't hold up to the TR weight and torque. > > Thanks, > > Greg > > > > Charly Mitchel wrote: > > > FoTers, > > > we have 6 commitments for the Tran-x lsd's. They are going to be > shipped via > > > ship and we have several of weeks before they will be sent. So I > guess > we're > > > making the last call for units if anyone else is interested. If so > let > me or > > > ken know ASAP so we can get them ordered. > > > Thanks, > > > Charly Mitchel > > > TR6 #44 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > > > gtlund at cyberspeedway.net > > > Fot mailing list > > > Fot at autox.team.net > > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From jaboruch at netzero.net Wed Oct 3 17:47:25 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 23:47:25 GMT Subject: [Fot] Alignment tools for TR6 Message-ID: <20071003.194725.196.0@webmail15.dca.untd.com> I have found that toe plates work well and are easy to carry to the track and use. They are available from a variety of suppliers and ebay. I have a camber gauge that is basically a calibrated level. I think I got it from Racer Wholesale. It is simple, small and it works. Joe(B) -- "jim hearn" wrote: What are some good (preferably cheap and/or homemade) alignment tools for toe and camber? When the string is used to measure toe, what part of the car is it set up as parallel to? Is this way of measuring toe better than measuring the tire/wheel comparing back to front? Thanks for any tips guys, Jim [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Not making enough money? Click here to get free info on medical jobs http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmPZJum11IthXdNxBrDO6Rmu oYbtQZmbWhYB1MkM5XEVTOqN/ From vintage.racer at comcast.net Wed Oct 3 17:58:59 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:58:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] You'll want to watch this Message-ID: <000301c80619$5e968150$1bc383f0$@racer@comcast.net> Hello All: Mark Oct.6 (Saturday) on your calendar for a new show on the Discovery channel which will premiere a special on the Ralph Lauren car collection. See the attached link for info: http://special.polo.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/nu820MKX8U0JJ8085d0GU Gary From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Wed Oct 3 20:56:08 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 21:56:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR3 piston rookie question Message-ID: <003901c80632$1daae690$8d20b348@blake1> Can anyone tell me the crown height for a stock TR3 piston? If I order the stock height + .005, will I have enough extra to mill off to get a zero deck height? As far as I know the block has not been decked in the past. Thanks, Greg From rjl at gt-classics.com Wed Oct 3 20:20:51 2007 From: rjl at gt-classics.com (R. John Lye) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:20:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Alignment tools for TR6 In-Reply-To: <20071003.194725.196.0@webmail15.dca.untd.com> References: <20071003.194725.196.0@webmail15.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: >-- "jim hearn" wrote: >What are some good (preferably cheap and/or homemade) alignment tools for >toe and camber? When the string is used to measure toe, what part of the >car is it set up as parallel to? They need to be parallel to the center line of the car. >Is this way of measuring toe better than >measuring the tire/wheel comparing back to front? It helps make sure that the car is "square" - if you just measure using toe plates, its possible to get the right toe, but not be square to the centerline of the car. That said, if you start with a correctly aligned car, toe plates will keep you close. R. John Lye rjl6n at cstone.net From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 3 20:34:01 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:34:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] The Kastner Cup Challenge at The Glen Message-ID: FoT, Lots of great stuff came in today. My view of the "Kastner Cup Challenge", if I may: This "Event" is a celebration of our Triumph Cars and the honoring of Kas Kastner, who brought (and still does bring) so much to our sport. The "RACE" is about Performance, Presentation, and the People who race these cars. SVRA has always done been extrordinarily fair & balanced with our Triumphs and the issues of eligibility. Not to mention the opportunity & encouragement for us to get together at the storied venues of North America. Watkins Glen is going to be one hell of show............. I'd like to see everybody there. It IS the "FRIENDS OF TRIUMPH". Thanks! Joe A From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 2 21:34:54 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 20:34:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> References: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: Basic "visiting firemen" courtesy though to let the Brits run. It's a common problem in vintage racing of all stripes. When I helped put on the Columbia River Classic race with SOVREN I was pestering the competition committee to grant a waiver for some cars so we could get a bunch of non-conforming cars to run--it was a small event that we wanted to grow, and there are a lot of cars in Portland and Northern California that meet SCCA requirements but not SOVREN. They said there's no way we will grant a waiver, but we don't prevent people from running their cars when they first want to run with us. Have them enter and give us an honest description of their cars. We'll consult with them during tech and point out the non- conforming elements. As long as they make progress toward bringing their cars into conformance then we'll work with them." I thought that was a pretty masterful way to include people in the event and move them towards full participation. And in fact many of the guys here have started or even completely moved their cars into conformance. It was interesting to note that the non-conforming cars had no apparent competitive advantage. They got waxed by the regulars. I don't know if that's a way that the SVRA would agree to work, but it seems inclusion and ultimate correction is a more constructive policy than exclusion. On Oct 2, 2007, at 8:12 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but > they do > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Munson" > To: ; ; > ; > ; ; ; > ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > >> Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite >> understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm >> fuel >> injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also >> weighs >> 1900 >> pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. >> I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage >> organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car >> to a >> higher level than what SCCA does. >> >> The cars from England are another story altogether. >> >> Mike Munson >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 >> >> In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: >> >> Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a >> class >> within the run group that will support my car? My spit is >> prepared and >> run >> >> under current SCCA regulations. >> >> >> We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted >> vintage >> standards. >> >> The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national >> championship >> and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. >> >> Jack Woehrle >> SVRA Technical Director >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Wed Oct 3 08:23:50 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:23:50 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/02/2007 10:13:07 PM Central Daylight Time, kaskas at cox.net writes: > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do > > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > A couple of them had TRIUMPH parts on them. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From keithfiles at btinternet.com Tue Oct 2 23:52:26 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 06:52:26 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <20071003055439.C53BD18763D@autox.team.net> It was in recognition of this great disparity that I chose to have Uncle Jack and Joe A find and build a US TR4 to your regulations and leave my UK modified TR6 at home; seemed the fair and right thing to do. Cheers, Keith -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kas Kastner Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Munson" To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > 1900 > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > higher level than what SCCA does. > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > Mike Munson > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > run > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > standards. > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > championship > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From sgroh1 at comcast.net Wed Oct 3 16:48:31 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (Steven Groh) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 18:48:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 References: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <002301c8060f$863b2bc0$6401a8c0@steven2sbouwlk> I have to pipe in here. I am one of those who moved their car into compliance. Having just spent $2,800 after a ton of searching to replace my non-conforming fiberglass Spitfire bonnet (in compliance with HSR and VARA, by the way) for a steel bonnet so that I would be in compliance with SVRA's rules, I would definitely NOT be happy if the rules were not uniformly applied or were arbitrarily applied. A governing body of technical experts enforcing the rules is one reason I joined SVRA. I think this would further open a flood gate of exceptions. Secondly, this is the Zippo GP for crying out loud. If any event should have vintage rules enforced, it should be this one. I'm all for a comprehensive Triumph meet, and with all countries represented, too. I just don't think SVRA and the Glen are the right combination for this. How about a "non-championship" looser-format event with VARAC at Mosport? Or HSR at Road Atlanta? Or some other sanctioning body at the Glen? Then I'll put the glass bonnet back on and join the fun. Steve Groh SVRA #393 63 Spitfire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Kas Kastner" Cc: "Mike Munson" ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > Basic "visiting firemen" courtesy though to let the Brits run. It's a > common problem in vintage racing of all stripes. > > When I helped put on the Columbia River Classic race with SOVREN I was > pestering the competition committee to grant a waiver for some cars so we > could get a bunch of non-conforming cars to run--it was a small event > that we wanted to grow, and there are a lot of cars in Portland and > Northern California that meet SCCA requirements but not SOVREN. They said > there's no way we will grant a waiver, but we don't prevent people from > running their cars when they first want to run with us. Have them enter > and give us an honest description of their cars. We'll consult with them > during tech and point out the non- conforming elements. As long as they > make progress toward bringing their cars into conformance then we'll work > with them." > > I thought that was a pretty masterful way to include people in the event > and move them towards full participation. And in fact many of the guys > here have started or even completely moved their cars into conformance. > It was interesting to note that the non-conforming cars had no apparent > competitive advantage. They got waxed by the regulars. > > I don't know if that's a way that the SVRA would agree to work, but it > seems inclusion and ultimate correction is a more constructive policy > than exclusion. > > > On Oct 2, 2007, at 8:12 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > >> Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they >> do >> not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike Munson" >> To: ; ; ; >> ; ; ; >> ; >> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM >> Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 >> >> >>> Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite >>> understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel >>> injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs >>> 1900 >>> pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. >>> I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage >>> organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a >>> higher level than what SCCA does. >>> >>> The cars from England are another story altogether. >>> >>> Mike Munson >>> >>> >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 >>> >>> In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>> jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: >>> >>> Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a >>> class >>> within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and >>> run >>> >>> under current SCCA regulations. >>> >>> >>> We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted >>> vintage >>> standards. >>> >>> The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national >>> championship >>> and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. >>> >>> Jack Woehrle >>> SVRA Technical Director >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> kaskas at cox.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> billb at bnj.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Thu Oct 4 00:09:14 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:09:14 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Tran-x In-Reply-To: <02f501c8060c$3cad8c80$1a02a8c0@workstation3> References: <01f601c80512$5305fa30$1a02a8c0@workstation3> <4704113E.2000002@cyberspeedway.net> <02f501c8060c$3cad8c80$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Message-ID: <0A2479ED-018E-4044-ACEE-3E117D0A7AB6@earthlink.net> Thanks Chuck, I'm going to pass. My car wins races as is and I've decided that I can develop my rear suspension a bit more before a LSD. Greg On Oct 3, 2007, at 4:24 PM, Charly Mitchel wrote: > Greg I believe this is correct, these are the Salisbury design as > bought by > a group in Germany. To be sure I would direct your questions to Ken > Gilanders and he will be able to answer it. > Telephone/Fax: 626-443-0939 > Email: bfeken at copper.net > > Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "greg" > To: "Charly Mitchel" > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:01 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Tran-x > > >> Are these Salisbury clutch type and if so are they the proper 4 >> pinion >> design? Two pinion won't hold up to the TR weight and torque. >> Thanks, >> Greg >> >> Charly Mitchel wrote: >>> FoTers, >>> we have 6 commitments for the Tran-x lsd's. They are going to be > shipped via >>> ship and we have several of weeks before they will be sent. So I >>> guess > we're >>> making the last call for units if anyone else is interested. If >>> so let > me or >>> ken know ASAP so we can get them ordered. >>> Thanks, >>> Charly Mitchel >>> TR6 #44 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> gtlund at cyberspeedway.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > lunkercars at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Oct 4 06:47:58 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 07:47:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fan Belt Message-ID: FoT, At the September Road America event, I began to throw fan belts off my TR6. I had no problems with the fan belt at the previous race event. Nothing was changed on the engine. I run aluminum pulley's on the crank, water pump and alternator (4.5" pulley on a Denso). All pulley's are for a 3/8" belt. We could not see any run out of the belt with the engine running at high idle. We checked the plane of the pulley's and made a minor adjustment with shimming the alternator bracket. The water pump had a very small amount of play in it but it seemed insignificant. When i got home, I measured the NAPA belt width and found that it was 13/32" wide - 1/32" wider than 3/8". I went back to NAPA but couldn't find an exact 3/8" width in their inventory. Could this be the issue? When installed, the belt sat above the top of the pulley by a hair. Is this enough for it to walk up and out at high RPM? Why did it just start to do this? Is the wiggle in the water pump a new occurrence causing the problem? The water pump is fairly new. Where are others buying their fan belts and are they 3/8"? Allen Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From tony at tonydrews.com Thu Oct 4 06:54:19 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 07:54:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fan Belt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071004125528.ADA02187A10@autox.team.net> I ended up with a slightly narrower belt that sits deeper in the grooves. My pulley alignment isn't the greatest in the world, but it stays put (knock on wood). Got the belt at the local farm equipment place (farm and fleet). - Tony At 07:47 AM 10/4/2007, Allen Washatko wrote: >FoT, > >At the September Road America event, I began to throw fan belts off my >TR6. I had no problems with the fan belt at the previous race event. >Nothing was changed on the engine. I run aluminum pulley's on the >crank, water pump and alternator (4.5" pulley on a Denso). All pulley's >are for a 3/8" belt. We could not see any run out of the belt with the >engine running at high idle. We checked the plane of the pulley's and >made a minor adjustment with shimming the alternator bracket. The water >pump had a very small amount of play in it but it seemed insignificant. >When i got home, I measured the NAPA belt width and found that it was >13/32" wide - 1/32" wider than 3/8". I went back to NAPA but couldn't >find an exact 3/8" width in their inventory. Could this be the issue? >When installed, the belt sat above the top of the pulley by a hair. Is >this enough for it to walk up and out at high RPM? Why did it just >start to do this? Is the wiggle in the water pump a new occurrence >causing the problem? The water pump is fairly new. Where are others >buying their fan belts and are they 3/8"? > >Allen > > > >Jody & Allen Washatko >N65 W5567 Columbia Road >Cedarburg, WI. 53012 >USA > >tel. (262) 375-6888 >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >tony at tonydrews.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From S.Janzen at comcast.net Thu Oct 4 07:08:34 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:08:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Alignment tools for TR6 References: <000b01c805f6$fe5d24f0$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <001f01c80687$ac668290$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> It takes a while, but first level the four tire contact points - vinyl floor tiles or masonite work well. Then get out a tape measure, plumb bob and tape, and determine the centerline of the car by dropping the plumb bob off the inner suspension points nd putting a tape line down the floor under the center of the car. fron there you can measure off the centerline - for my formula ford with adjustable rod end suspension I could get the whole car aligned symetrically. Toe fore and aft can now be determined by setting up jack stands at the four corners and running string down the sides of the car at wheel center height. Now you have a line to measure off of to the leading and trailing edges of the wheels. For camber, you have to get one of those a frame shaped digital camber/castor checkers - look in the ads in Sportscar or Grassroots Motorsports, or any of the race stuff suppliers - Truechoice, pegasus, others - and you'll find one. It's slow and painstaking but if you are careful you can do a good job this way. Of course, every time you jack up the car to make an adjustment you have to go back and re-set the car on the floor! ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:52 PM Subject: [Fot] Alignment tools for TR6 > What are some good (preferably cheap and/or homemade) alignment tools for > toe and camber? When the string is used to measure toe, what part of the > car is it set up as parallel to? Is this way of measuring toe better than > measuring the tire/wheel comparing back to front? Thanks for any tips > guys, > Jim > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cartravel at pobox.com Thu Oct 4 07:31:16 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:31:16 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR3 piston rookie question In-Reply-To: <003901c80632$1daae690$8d20b348@blake1> References: <003901c80632$1daae690$8d20b348@blake1> Message-ID: <4704EB24.3010706@pobox.com> I believe your asking for the compression height, i.e. the distance from the wrist pin center to the top of the piston. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you need a 2.000 in compression height to put the top of the piston level with the deck. Greg & Alison Blake wrote: > Can anyone tell me the crown height for a stock TR3 piston? If I order > the stock height + .005, will I have enough extra to mill off to get a > zero deck height? As far as I know the block has not been decked in the > past. > > Thanks, > > Greg > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > cartravel at pobox.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From klynch_6 at msn.com Thu Oct 4 08:40:14 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 08:40:14 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Dario in a Door Slammer Message-ID: Franchitti goes to Nascar... sans the doors! Kevin From walt at hot-tr6.com Thu Oct 4 09:23:24 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:23:24 -0600 Subject: [Fot] transportation needed-long shot Message-ID: <20071004152414.49D201879BC@autox.team.net> I have a bare TR6 engine block and a crankshaft I need transported from Fort Pierce, Florida 34947 to Albuquerque, New Mexico 87111 Just in case anyone can help and could use some gas money for this service. Thank You Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, NM From Group44TR7 at aol.com Thu Oct 4 09:58:49 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:58:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - Message-ID: Amici I do not believe that a year has gone by whilst I have been an FOT participant ( 199?) that the subject of requirements of various sanctioning bodies has not been a topic of FOT discussion. Especially the requirements to meet specific preparation requirements, which for many Triumphs is the 1972 SCCA GRC. Frankly I do not know where and when it was first decided to use the 1972 SCCA GRC, but I do know that it was already in use when I started vintage racing in about 1990. It has always struck me as particularly ironic that the body work modification (wheel flares) that were allowed in 1972 were not allowed in vintage racing and that relatively little was actually being done at many events to enforce adherence to preparation of 1972 GRC engine specifications other than obvious visible modifications like the carbs. One of the benefits of owning a Group 44 racecar, as I am sure it is with Kas's old racecars as well, is to see the innovation that was done within the rules to make the cars more competitive. One of the frustration is that keeping the car as it was originally raced means that you are at a competitive disadvantage to other historic as well as newly constucted vintage racecars that are using the latest technology. As a driver/owner, you simply have to accept that you never going to be the fastest car on the track as they were in their day. The second point that I would like to make is that alot of time has passed since I first did vintage racing. I am glad that SVAR has opened the door for participation by post 1972 cars that have have a racing history. If I can change what is a major conflict in my business schedule with the Watkins Glen event and some other logisitcal challenges, you all just might get to see the Group 44 TR7 - Aussy Playboy TR7 in action at the Glen for the first time since 1975. If its slower than you expected - well some of you know Bob Tullius, and I am not anywhere close to Bob Tullius. It truly a great priviledge to even drive the same car as the him. Cary ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Oct 4 10:03:13 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:03:13 EDT Subject: [Fot] FW: a slow motion look at the inside of a running engine cylinder Message-ID: In a message dated 10/03/2007 4:36:11 PM Central Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: > Pretty cool--I'd like to see more of the exhaust cycle. There's a > video around somewhere of the bottom end of a wet sump engine > running. It looks like a hurricane in a box. > My racing partner, Bob Wismer (an ex-Deere engineer), found it to be amazing. He finds it looks very different from a direct-injected diesel engine, which he's seen many times. He also said if this was his engine head, I would work on "swirl." I don't know what that means, but I'll ask him to explain it at one of our MID-OHIO breakfast meetings (unless Shirley makes us talk about quilting). Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From billb at bnj.com Thu Oct 4 10:03:46 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:03:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <213035CF-A262-4A83-A844-28E8AB18B76A@bnj.com> Sovren is going through a fierce debate on changing their eligibility requirements from 1968 to 1972. So far I think most members want to stick with 1968, though I think it limits the participation of people from other clubs. It's too bad there isn't enough cooperation at a national level to enable vintage eligibility to be defined country-wide. On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > Amici > > I do not believe that a year has gone by whilst I have been an > FOT participant ( 199?) that the subject of requirements of various > sanctioning bodies has not been a topic of FOT discussion. > Especially the requirements to meet specific preparation > requirements, which for many Triumphs is the 1972 SCCA GRC. > > Frankly I do not know where and when it was first decided to > use the 1972 SCCA GRC, but I do know that it was already in use > when I started vintage racing in about 1990. It has always struck > me as particularly ironic that the body work modification (wheel > flares) that were allowed in 1972 were not allowed in vintage > racing and that relatively little was actually being done at many > events to enforce adherence to preparation of 1972 GRC engine > specifications other than obvious visible modifications like the > carbs. > > One of the benefits of owning a Group 44 racecar, as I am sure > it is with Kas's old racecars as well, is to see the innovation > that was done within the rules to make the cars more competitive. > One of the frustration is that keeping the car as it was originally > raced means that you are at a competitive disadvantage to other > historic as well as newly constucted vintage racecars that are > using the latest technology. As a driver/owner, you simply have to > accept that you never going to be the fastest car on the track as > they were in their day. > > The second point that I would like to make is that alot of time > has passed since I first did vintage racing. I am glad that SVAR > has opened the door for participation by post 1972 cars that have > have a racing history. If I can change what is a major conflict in > my business schedule with the Watkins Glen event and some other > logisitcal challenges, you all just might get to see the Group 44 > TR7 - Aussy Playboy TR7 in action at the Glen for the first time > since 1975. > > If its slower than you expected - well some of you know Bob > Tullius, and I am not anywhere close to Bob Tullius. It truly a > great priviledge to even drive the same car as the him. > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 4 12:14:30 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 14:14:30 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR3/TR4 Cam Core Needed Message-ID: FoT, I thought I had a couple, but I dont. I need a suitable cam core for Larry Young's new Grind. I have an address to drop ship it. Thanks, Joe Alexander From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 4 12:22:39 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 14:22:39 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - Message-ID: Cary, I'll put you down....I think you are going to make it this time. Looks like we might have a mini Group 44 meeting in the making? Joe A > Amici > > I do not believe that a year has gone by whilst I have been an FOT > participant ( 199?) that the subject of requirements of various sanctioning > bodies > has not been a topic of FOT discussion. Especially the requirements to meet > specific preparation requirements, which for many Triumphs is the 1972 SCCA > GRC. > > Frankly I do not know where and when it was first decided to use the > 1972 > SCCA GRC, but I do know that it was already in use when I started vintage > racing in about 1990. It has always struck me as particularly ironic that > the > body work modification (wheel flares) that were allowed in 1972 were not > allowed > in vintage racing and that relatively little was actually being done at many > events to enforce adherence to preparation of 1972 GRC engine specifications > other than obvious visible modifications like the carbs. > > One of the benefits of owning a Group 44 racecar, as I am sure it is > with > Kas's old racecars as well, is to see the innovation that was done within > the > rules to make the cars more competitive. One of the frustration is that > keeping the car as it was originally raced means that you are at a > competitive > disadvantage to other historic as well as newly constucted vintage racecars > that > are using the latest technology. As a driver/owner, you simply have to > accept > that you never going to be the fastest car on the track as they were in > their > day. > > The second point that I would like to make is that alot of time has > passed since I first did vintage racing. I am glad that SVAR has opened the > door > for participation by post 1972 cars that have have a racing history. If I > can > change what is a major conflict in my business schedule with the Watkins > Glen > event and some other logisitcal challenges, you all just might get to see > the > Group 44 TR7 - Aussy Playboy TR7 in action at the Glen for the first time > since > 1975. > > If its slower than you expected - well some of you know Bob Tullius, and > I am not anywhere close to Bob Tullius. It truly a great priviledge to even > drive the same car as the him. > > Cary > > > > > > > > From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Thu Oct 4 14:23:17 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:23:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] JE pistons for 1500 Spitfire Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74772374@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> I have a set of new +0.040 JE pistons for a Spitfire 1500 (bore of 2.940") which I no longer need. Includes premium pins (4), spiro locks, and rings. There's also a sample piston I sent to JE to be duplicated -- the sample comes from a prior blowed up 1500 motor -- from when I joined the Hole in the Block Gang at RA in 2004. I can provide invoice, build/spec sheet and photos. I've got $583.52 in this set of pistons, but would cut someone a decent deal to move them to a home where they could be used in anger as opposed to gathering dust in my garage. Anyone out there need a set of really nice forged pistons? Scott B. From jaboruch at netzero.net Thu Oct 4 17:43:42 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 23:43:42 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR3 piston rookie question Message-ID: <20071004.194342.21589.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> 2" compression height is correct. Joe(B) -- Larry Young wrote: I believe your asking for the compression height, i.e. the distance from the wrist pin center to the top of the piston. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you need a 2.000 in compression height to put the top of the piston level with the deck. Greg & Alison Blake wrote: > Can anyone tell me the crown height for a stock TR3 piston? If I order > the stock height + .005, will I have enough extra to mill off to get a > zero deck height? As far as I know the block has not been decked in the > past. > > Thanks, > > Greg > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > cartravel at pobox.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click for free info on business schools, $150K/ year potential. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlScb83RqBPXVW9HCpYwvtuT xWJKIeWscRXockyHSyaJI9Ux/ From jaboruch at netzero.net Thu Oct 4 17:51:56 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 23:51:56 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR3 piston rookie question Message-ID: <20071004.195156.21589.1@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Your piston height depends on a couple of factors. Like what rpm's, what head gasket, etc. For racing the cranks flex and you need more clearance than you think. I use a steel shim head gasket (0.022 inches compressed) and have had pistons that were 0.005 inches below the top of the liners still hit the head. I now leave at least 0.010" clearance at the top of the piston, for a total of 0.032". My rev limiter is set at 7300rpm and the pistons do not hit. Joe(B) -- "Greg & Alison Blake" wrote: Can anyone tell me the crown height for a stock TR3 piston? If I order the stock height + .005, will I have enough extra to mill off to get a zero deck height? As far as I know the block has not been decked in the past. Thanks, Greg jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Be your own boss today! Go to Technical School. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijngzTlf4rXRwVBXSWM1HSZuP Uoyrp6JoW8nWHHv0Ffn7WOB0/ From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Oct 4 18:19:35 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:19:35 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Steering Rack Message-ID: <1c352d3df559e9ef79f1c878732f2500@wi.rr.com> Anybody out there have a used steering rack for a TR6? I bought a new one from Moss but it fell apart while sitting in the garage during a toe adjustment!!! Made in Argentina. Someone over torqued the lock nut on the cap that holds the grease plug and plunger in place - stripped the threads and everything let go while turning the steering wheel. Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Thu Oct 4 20:12:46 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:12:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] LSD's Message-ID: <005001c806f5$3983eb00$0502a8c0@desktop> Foter's, for those who have sent in deposits, the order is going in tomorrow and the manufacturer needs to know what cars they are going into. I know of a couple TR6's, a TR250 and I don't know if the others are TR4's or TR4A's. Could you please email me with the type of car they are to be used on. Any others that want one needs to get a hold of Ken immediately to be included in this order. Thanks, Charly From dos_gusanos at msn.com Thu Oct 4 11:12:29 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:12:29 -0600 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - In-Reply-To: <213035CF-A262-4A83-A844-28E8AB18B76A@bnj.com> References: <213035CF-A262-4A83-A844-28E8AB18B76A@bnj.com> Message-ID: And every year I add my two cents on the subject in support of a '67 cutoff. If you have a period prepared car, I think it sucks to run with guys who have flares, slicks and every thing else money can buy. If you look at road racing participants and spectators today in relation to the enormous growth in population that has ocurred in the US since the end of the "Vintage era" road racing is really in the tank compared to any other form of motorsport. Additionally, what is the difference between a '72 legal car and current SCCA standards? Not a lot if you are looking through the windshield of a TR3 on 4.5" rims. Clubs now are considering going beyond '72 when road racing died. I prefer to run with the clubs that honor the pre 67 era and will vote with my wallet. (HSR, never again) If all the clubs go to '72 I will quit and go sailing or golfing or whatever. I went to the Elva reunion and although it was fun to see all the Elvas, I would really rather race a Porsche 356 that is prepared to the period. Cheers Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, NM > From: billb at bnj.com> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:03:46 -0700> To: Group44TR7 at aol.com> CC: westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; JWoesvra at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 -> > Sovren is going through a fierce debate on changing their eligibility > requirements from 1968 to 1972. So far I think most members want to > stick with 1968, though I think it limits the participation of people > from other clubs. It's too bad there isn't enough cooperation at a > national level to enable vintage eligibility to be defined country-wide.> > On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote:> > > Amici> >> > I do not believe that a year has gone by whilst I have been an > > FOT participant ( 199?) that the subject of requirements of various > > sanctioning bodies has not been a topic of FOT discussion. > > Especially the requirements to meet specific preparation > > requirements, which for many Triumphs is the 1972 SCCA GRC.> >> > Frankly I do not know where and when it was first decided to > > use the 1972 SCCA GRC, but I do know that it was already in use > > when I started vintage racing in about 1990. It has always struck > > me as particularly ironic that the body work modification (wheel > > flares) that were allowed in 1972 were not allowed in vintage > > racing and that relatively little was actually being done at many > > events to enforce adherence to preparation of 1972 GRC engine > > specifications other than obvious visible modifications like the > > carbs.> >> > One of the benefits of owning a Group 44 racecar, as I am sure > > it is with Kas's old racecars as well, is to see the innovation > > that was done within the rules to make the cars more competitive. > > One of the frustration is that keeping the car as it was originally > > raced means that you are at a competitive disadvantage to other > > historic as well as newly constucted vintage racecars that are > > using the latest technology. As a driver/owner, you simply have to > > accept that you never going to be the fastest car on the track as > > they were in their day.> >> > The second point that I would like to make is that alot of time > > has passed since I first did vintage racing. I am glad that SVAR > > has opened the door for participation by post 1972 cars that have > > have a racing history. If I can change what is a major conflict in > > my business schedule with the Watkins Glen event and some other > > logisitcal challenges, you all just might get to see the Group 44 > > TR7 - Aussy Playboy TR7 in action at the Glen for the first time > > since 1975.> >> > If its slower than you expected - well some of you know Bob > > Tullius, and I am not anywhere close to Bob Tullius. It truly a > > great priviledge to even drive the same car as the him.> >> > Cary> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.> _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sat Oct 6 10:56:50 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 09:56:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 1971 CP Runoffs References: <7691307.1191607728386.JavaMail.ra85@drexel.edu> Message-ID: <003101c80839$e39f86e0$5717c548@RW> This link, sent to me by Bob Adams, will give you a neat video of the 1971 Atlanta Runoffs in Class C. Lee Mueller was driving my TR-6 and it is some close and good hard racing. > > http://www.guba.com/watch/3000000528 From budscars at msn.com Sat Oct 6 20:01:38 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 19:01:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON Message-ID: Hi Gang..Are any of you racing in/Attending the CSRG Charity challenge at Infineon next weekend?..I will be there with my 1967 dark blue Spitfire #21....Gary Horskorta will be racing his red TR4..My bet is that Ron Jacobs(havn't met you yet Ron) will be racing his TR4..and I can't remember the name of the Guy in the /Red Devin Triumph..we have 260+ entries...I will be saving pit space in the area behind the Grandstands for THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang(Look for the Banner)......It will be great if you Guys join us...I won't be able to save enough room for transporters...I usually grab a polite amount of space..6-12 cars..Not All Triumphs....All great people.....If you cannot pit with us..PLEASE Stop By and hang out for the entire weekend if you like...Everyone is always welcome..And your Help working on/giving input on the cars is Always Appreciated....We Truly Are..The Way It Was..Whoohoo!.. Thanks Folks Racer Bud and THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang From billb at bnj.com Sat Oct 6 20:22:14 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 19:22:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The guy with the red devin is Bill Hart. I'm pretty sure he will be there since I know tony Garmey is towing down. Peyote is in bits, the frame is a lot worse than I thought it was, I'm going to have to replace a lot of it. But I might drive down just to spectate and for the ride. On Oct 6, 2007, at 7:01 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > Hi Gang..Are any of you racing in/Attending the CSRG Charity > challenge at > Infineon next weekend?..I will be there with my 1967 dark blue > Spitfire > #21....Gary Horskorta will be racing his red TR4..My bet is that Ron > Jacobs(havn't met you yet Ron) will be racing his TR4..and I can't > remember > the name of the Guy in the /Red Devin Triumph..we have 260+ > entries...I will > be saving pit space in the area behind the Grandstands for THE OLD > GUYS STILL > DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang(Look for the Banner)......It > will be great > if you Guys join us...I won't be able to save enough room for > transporters...I > usually grab a polite amount of space..6-12 cars..Not All > Triumphs....All > great people.....If you cannot pit with us..PLEASE Stop By and hang > out for > the entire weekend if you like...Everyone is always welcome..And > your Help > working on/giving input on the cars is Always Appreciated....We > Truly Are..The > Way It Was..Whoohoo!.. > Thanks Folks > Racer Bud and THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Sat Oct 6 20:24:12 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 19:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] 1971 CP Runoffs In-Reply-To: <003101c80839$e39f86e0$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <986262.2912.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Kas, some great video. Is there more of it? It would be great to see the DP, EP, FP, GP and HP clips. Or was the focus around the datsuns and CP, BS? Kas Kastner wrote: This link, sent to me by Bob Adams, will give you a neat video of the 1971 Atlanta Runoffs in Class C. Lee Mueller was driving my TR-6 and it is some close and good hard racing. > > http://www.guba.com/watch/3000000528 jaxonracing at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! From budscars at msn.com Sat Oct 6 20:32:03 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 19:32:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON References: Message-ID: Hello Bill..Sorry about Peyote..Hang in Man!...Stay in the Loop..I know you will..I have a new engine for my Spitfire, after busting a crank at Laguna Seca.... and.. parking in the sand =Oil+Sand....We have it Made Gang! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "RACER BUD" Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON > The guy with the red devin is Bill Hart. I'm pretty sure he will be there > since I know tony Garmey is towing down. Peyote is in bits, the frame is > a lot worse than I thought it was, I'm going to have to replace a lot of > it. But I might drive down just to spectate and for the ride. > On Oct 6, 2007, at 7:01 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > >> Hi Gang..Are any of you racing in/Attending the CSRG Charity challenge >> at >> Infineon next weekend?..I will be there with my 1967 dark blue Spitfire >> #21....Gary Horskorta will be racing his red TR4..My bet is that Ron >> Jacobs(havn't met you yet Ron) will be racing his TR4..and I can't >> remember >> the name of the Guy in the /Red Devin Triumph..we have 260+ entries...I >> will >> be saving pit space in the area behind the Grandstands for THE OLD GUYS >> STILL >> DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang(Look for the Banner)......It will be >> great >> if you Guys join us...I won't be able to save enough room for >> transporters...I >> usually grab a polite amount of space..6-12 cars..Not All >> Triumphs....All >> great people.....If you cannot pit with us..PLEASE Stop By and hang out >> for >> the entire weekend if you like...Everyone is always welcome..And your >> Help >> working on/giving input on the cars is Always Appreciated....We Truly >> Are..The >> Way It Was..Whoohoo!.. >> Thanks Folks >> Racer Bud and THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> billb at bnj.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 7 13:45:56 2007 From: westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net (westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 19:45:56 +0000 Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON Message-ID: <100720071945.6120.470937730009557B000017E82158766720990E04D2069D@att.net> I will be at the CSRG Charity Challenge. My car is the dark blue number 484. Look forward to meeting you and seeing how Gary's TR runs with all the work he has done on it since we last raced together. Of course my car has just be sitting at Genoa gathering dust. I'm told it will start however. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from "RACER BUD" : -------------- > Hello Bill..Sorry about Peyote..Hang in Man!...Stay in the Loop..I know you > will..I have a new engine for my Spitfire, after busting a crank at Laguna > Seca.... and.. parking in the sand =Oil+Sand....We have it Made Gang! > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Babcock" > To: "RACER BUD" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 7:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON > > > > The guy with the red devin is Bill Hart. I'm pretty sure he will be there > > since I know tony Garmey is towing down. Peyote is in bits, the frame is > > a lot worse than I thought it was, I'm going to have to replace a lot of > > it. But I might drive down just to spectate and for the ride. > > On Oct 6, 2007, at 7:01 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > > > >> Hi Gang..Are any of you racing in/Attending the CSRG Charity challenge > >> at > >> Infineon next weekend?..I will be there with my 1967 dark blue Spitfire > >> #21....Gary Horskorta will be racing his red TR4..My bet is that Ron > >> Jacobs(havn't met you yet Ron) will be racing his TR4..and I can't > >> remember > >> the name of the Guy in the /Red Devin Triumph..we have 260+ entries...I > >> will > >> be saving pit space in the area behind the Grandstands for THE OLD GUYS > >> STILL > >> DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang(Look for the Banner)......It will be > >> great > >> if you Guys join us...I won't be able to save enough room for > >> transporters...I > >> usually grab a polite amount of space..6-12 cars..Not All > >> Triumphs....All > >> great people.....If you cannot pit with us..PLEASE Stop By and hang out > >> for > >> the entire weekend if you like...Everyone is always welcome..And your > >> Help > >> working on/giving input on the cars is Always Appreciated....We Truly > >> Are..The > >> Way It Was..Whoohoo!.. > >> Thanks Folks > >> Racer Bud and THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang > >> _______________________________________________ > >> http://www.team.net/donate.html > >> > >> billb at bnj.com > >> Fot mailing list > >> Fot at autox.team.net > >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > westerneagleracing at att.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From keithfiles at btinternet.com Sat Oct 6 11:28:03 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 18:28:03 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <20071006173059.4D3BE187A5A@autox.team.net> HI everybody, Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on the cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver TR6 placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won outright at VIR in 2004. My TR6 has: Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 pistons (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 DCOE Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, luminiton ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic RaceCraft for the princely sum of c $20k. Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, Quartermaster clutch. Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on circuit). Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot callipers (these do make a big difference). Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs less than a standard road car. Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) by a country mile. At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well driven spitfires. As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over in 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys just to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kas Kastner Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Munson" To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > 1900 > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > higher level than what SCCA does. > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > Mike Munson > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > run > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > standards. > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > championship > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From keithfiles at btinternet.com Sat Oct 6 14:32:15 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 21:32:15 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <000701c80856$88dd8e10$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <20071006203439.540C41879D8@autox.team.net> Hi Kas, Over here some people run drivers door, front and rear panels as GRP with the floor panels, inner boot panels and inner wings in aluminium; now that is light! I know of one guy who has a complete hand made aluminium body shell on his TR6, the car weighs in at 800kgs!!! Hope to see you at either Mosport in July or at Watkins Glen in September; I hope to be at both events. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: Kas Kastner [mailto:kaskas at cox.net] Sent: 06 October 2007 21:22 To: Keith Files; 'Mike Munson'; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Let's see Keith, hood, boot, top, door and wings..........duh, that is ALL the panels, except the passenger door.:-) But, the engine sounds like all the things I wish I had had in the olden days. In particular that crank and rods. And, glad to hear from you and that you are coming over again. With dollar/pound issue, it is doubtful anyone will be coming your way soon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Files" To: "'Kas Kastner'" ; "'Mike Munson'" ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: RE: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > HI everybody, > > Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on > the > cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion > either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when > compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the > Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver > TR6 > placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won > outright > at VIR in 2004. > > My TR6 has: > > Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 > pistons > (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, > Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 > DCOE > Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, > luminiton > ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic > RaceCraft > for the princely sum of c $20k. > > Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, > Quartermaster clutch. > > Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on > circuit). > > Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where > terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. > > Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot > callipers (these do make a big difference). > > Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers > door > and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs > less than a standard road car. > > Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. > > The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by > Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. > > The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as > well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then > Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) > by > a country mile. > > At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a > Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over > here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well > driven spitfires. > > As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over > in > 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am > going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over > youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys > just > to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are > available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are > some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). > > As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. > > Cheers, Keith. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Kas Kastner > Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 > To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; > ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; > sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; > fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they > do > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Munson" > To: ; ; ; > ; ; ; > ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > >> Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite >> understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel >> injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs >> 1900 >> pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. >> I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage >> organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a >> higher level than what SCCA does. >> >> The cars from England are another story altogether. >> >> Mike Munson >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 >> >> In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: >> >> Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class >> within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and >> run >> >> under current SCCA regulations. >> >> >> We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage >> standards. >> >> The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national >> championship >> and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. >> >> Jack Woehrle >> SVRA Technical Director >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > keithfiles at btinternet.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Mon Oct 8 10:15:25 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 11:15:25 -0500 Subject: [Fot] competition valves Message-ID: <200710081615.l98GFY4F069480@ns3.geneseo.net> I've disassembled two TR4 engines that have valves with three retainer grooves instead of one. These must be standard in some other existing engine. Does anybody know where these are from? uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From budscars at msn.com Mon Oct 8 19:17:36 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 18:17:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] test Message-ID: Hi gang..I am having computer probs..please respond. for test. Thanks Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 Sonoma. ca. From stutzmans at comcast.net Mon Oct 8 19:45:31 2007 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 21:45:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] oil filter by pass valve Message-ID: <001201c80a16$13ca6a50$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> Who knows at what PSI the by pass valve opens in the TR3-4 filter head? Many of us are using the spin on oil filter adaptor and filters with internal by pass valves that open at 8-11 PSI. So we have 2 by pass valves. Bruce From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Oct 8 22:13:16 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 22:13:16 -0600 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 References: <60C60298-D6F5-49E0-AD6C-CADFDA3605A0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM MDT > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > >> >> FoTers, >> I think Henry Morrison will be as surprised as I, to find myself >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this discussion >> several times before. However... Personally, I encourage expanded >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for bigger grids. >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a earlier >> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR. >> Regarding your car Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high >> level of preparation, wouldn't it be more concise to list what it >> DID leave the factory with? To me " All original steel panels >> except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door, all 4 wings and >> hardtop " is like saying " all original car except for body, >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know what GRP is >> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the >> rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of >> the art [which your car sounds to be] - not >> "an act or scheme to out whit or deceive" {Webster} >> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no disrespect aimed at >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason. >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules >> read: >> >> Engine: >> >> Same type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit). >> Period correct roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. >> Compression Ratio is limited to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be >> documented as higher from the factory as delivered for street >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and period correct. No aluminum >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless originally sold as >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free but must not conflict >> with stock type appearance of body. >> >> >> Carburetion: >> Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi >> count). No Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped. >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------- >> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in compliance with the >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host club] is even more strict >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 was [as graciously >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an inch of it's >> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group >> [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I >> doubt if Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - >> not really fair to the others. >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how my Vintage prepped >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans to attend >> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain! >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. From Group44TR7 at aol.com Tue Oct 9 07:10:31 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:10:31 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen 2008 - FOT GRC standard for Kastner Cup ? Message-ID: Amici One of the underlying fundamental reasons why there are many different sanctioning organizations is that there is no consensus on vintage preparation standards. Further, reflected in the differing standards is a fundamental difference in philosophy about the preparation of cars for racing. And even further, there is even more basic difference of philosophy about cars themselves; General racing for example has typically only included cars that have a real race history. On one extreme, we have only cars with an actual race history that supposedly is prepared to the same specifications as when they were raced and on opposite end is newly constructed/reconstructed race cars utilizing new technology. For FOT to have an event, it means that a compromise has to be reached to allow these cars to compete together. Philosophically, there is also a very big difference between drivers. On one extreme there are people who simply want to have fun driving as fast as they can with their car and the opposite extreme of someone who wants to win a competition. It would seem that we should have an agreement amongst FOT for those who want to compete as to the level of preparation allowed, a sort very basic of FOT GRC for the Kastner Cup that preferably references an already existing GRC. If you are in not in compliance, you simply are not eligible - but you can go on the track (if accepted by SVRA) to have fun driving your car. Thanks for listening, Cary ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From DSPGTi at aol.com Tue Oct 9 08:03:42 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:03:42 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen 2008 - FOT GRC standard for Kastner Cup ? Message-ID: Is anyone familiar with the MG groups awarding of the Collier Cup at the Zippo GP? They have their own group race like the one we will get next year. What I know of it is that is awarded by popular vote amoung the competitors that goes to the driver of the car that most exemplifies the spirit and preservation of an original prepared MG. It almost never goes to the race winner. It will sometimes be the MGTC running in the back, sometimes the an MGB running in the middle maybe a Sebring GT near the front. It's about the preservation of history and originality that counts, not the speed. How many times do we have to be reminded that it is all about the cars, not who's fastest. Fastest is for SCCA, NASA, EMRA, IMSA, NASCAR etc,etc. Dave Y. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 9 08:22:41 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:22:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen 2008 - FOT GRC standard for Kastner Cup ? Message-ID: That's IT! Thanks Dave Y!! > Is anyone familiar with the MG groups awarding of the Collier Cup at the > Zippo GP? They have their own group race like the one we will get next year. > > What I know of it is that is awarded by popular vote amoung the competitors > that > goes to the driver of the car that most exemplifies the spirit and > preservation of an original prepared MG. It almost never goes to the race > winner. It > will sometimes be the MGTC running in the back, sometimes the an MGB > running in > the middle maybe a Sebring GT near the front. It's about the preservation > of > history and originality that counts, not the speed. > > How many times do we have to be reminded that it is all about the cars, not > who's fastest. Fastest is for SCCA, NASA, EMRA, IMSA, NASCAR etc,etc. > > Dave Y. > > From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 9 08:29:27 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:29:27 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nomination to FoT Another TR3 Message-ID: FoT Steve Preiss is preparing a 1956 TR3 to 1962 GCRs. His level of competition is to be decided, but a driver's school is planned. This effort is shades of "Rosebud" and is worthy of our support. He will be sharing information and seeking advice on engine build and suspension set up. I nominate Steve Preiss....do I hear a second? (Does anyone know him personally?) Steve Preiss 6908 Heyward Street Philadelphia, PA 19119 spreiss at verizon.net Thanks, Joe Alexander From alfetta95 at optonline.net Tue Oct 9 08:58:45 2007 From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (alfetta95 at optonline.net) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:58:45 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination to FoT Another TR3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I second. Welcome Steve! Todd Redmond 1958 TR3A ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2007 10:29 am Subject: [Fot] Nomination to FoT Another TR3 To: fot at autox.team.net > FoT > > Steve Preiss is preparing a 1956 TR3 to 1962 GCRs. His level of > competition > is to be decided, but a driver's school is planned. This effort > is shades of > "Rosebud" and is worthy of our support. He will be sharing > information and > seeking advice on engine build and suspension set up. > > I nominate Steve Preiss....do I hear a second? (Does anyone know > him > personally?) > > Steve Preiss > 6908 Heyward Street > Philadelphia, PA 19119 > spreiss at verizon.net > > > Thanks, > > Joe Alexander > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > alfetta95 at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cartravel at pobox.com Tue Oct 9 09:20:10 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:20:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> References: <60C60298-D6F5-49E0-AD6C-CADFDA3605A0@earthlink.net> <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <470B9C2A.7050300@pobox.com> The awarding of the Kastner Cup is completely up to Kas, as it should be. I know Kas applies his own weighting factors. If you want something done by popular vote, like the MG Collier Cup, then someone needs to come up with a new cup. Larry Young Greg "Lunker" Hilyer wrote: >>> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >>> - Someone please enlighten me. From Group44TR7 at aol.com Tue Oct 9 09:38:15 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:38:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - Clarification Message-ID: I only included the Kastner Cup Challenge in my subject line because I inferred from the dialog that the Kastner Cup Challenge was going to be the name of the event. My comments were intended to address the issues being addressed by Keith and others about the differences in preparation of various competition cars. Obviously the competitive spirit is alive even amongst the vintage group. Frankly, it would be in all of our financial interests to adopt a uniform standard simply to prevent escalation costs of car preparation.There was a group within the Porsche club that got smart and started the 2 liter class with minimal preparation. Cary In a message dated 10/9/2007 8:21:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cartravel at pobox.com writes: The awarding of the Kastner Cup is completely up to Kas, as it should be. I know Kas applies his own weighting factors. If you want something done by popular vote, like the MG Collier Cup, then someone needs to come up with a new cup. Larry Young Greg "Lunker" Hilyer wrote: >>> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >>> - Someone please enlighten me. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From REK46 at aol.com Tue Oct 9 09:38:05 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:38:05 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: so make sure you give Kas a couple Martini's and a good steak ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Tue Oct 9 10:08:54 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:08:54 -0500 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - Clarification In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820AE28315@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> I don't know how practical addressing performance differences can be. We can't do that very well even in our club. I think that we all just have to accept that if we are truely vintage then we are racing a "point in time car". We each get to pick out point in time based on the car we have and the local rules. I may not be able to run with the cars from a different part of the country that are built to different year specs and rules but we always have somebody to race with. Being passed by the Group 44 TR6 is not a problem. It would have heppened back in the day too. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Group44TR7 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:38 AM To: cartravel at pobox.com; lunkercars at earthlink.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - Clarification I only included the Kastner Cup Challenge in my subject line because I inferred from the dialog that the Kastner Cup Challenge was going to be the name of the event. My comments were intended to address the issues being addressed by Keith and others about the differences in preparation of various competition cars. Obviously the competitive spirit is alive even amongst the vintage group. Frankly, it would be in all of our financial interests to adopt a uniform standard simply to prevent escalation costs of car preparation.There was a group within the Porsche club that got smart and started the 2 liter class with minimal preparation. Cary In a message dated 10/9/2007 8:21:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cartravel at pobox.com writes: The awarding of the Kastner Cup is completely up to Kas, as it should be. I know Kas applies his own weighting factors. If you want something done by popular vote, like the MG Collier Cup, then someone needs to come up with a new cup. Larry Young Greg "Lunker" Hilyer wrote: >>> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >>> - Someone please enlighten me. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html rkramer at rdoequipment.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Tue Oct 9 10:16:54 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 12:16:54 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Watkins_Glen_2008_-_FOT_GRC_standard_for_Kas?= =?iso-8859-1?q?tner_Cup=A0_=3F?= Message-ID: As a guy who races a TR3 that has been a race car sincve 1959 and is building the Group 44 GT6 up I might actually have half a chance on winnign something with theis idea. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 Is anyone familiar with the MG groups awarding of the Collier Cup at the Zippo GP? They have their own group race like the one we will get next year. What I know of it is that is awarded by popular vote amoung the competitors that goes to the driver of the car that most exemplifies the spirit and preservation of an original prepared MG. It almost never goes to the race winner. It will sometimes be the MGTC running in the back, sometimes the an MGB running in the middle maybe a Sebring GT near the front. It's about the preservation of history and originality that counts, not the speed. How many times do we have to be reminded that it is all about the cars, not who's fastest. Fastest is for SCCA, NASA, EMRA, IMSA, NASCAR etc,etc. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From kaskas at cox.net Tue Oct 9 10:19:40 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:19:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Kastner Cup Message-ID: <004601c80a90$31883e80$5717c548@RW> There is no mystery on the cup presentation. In the very beginning I wanted to offer this cup to participants that had Triumph cars that were excellent examples of presentation & preparation, the driver an advocate and involved person in Vintage type racing and results from the Triumph competition on the track. The values being approximately 25%, 25% and 50%. There are two provisions: 1. No driver can win the cup in consecutive years. 2. The cup is to be awarded once each year and moved around the country to give opportunity to as many drivers as possible and a venue agreed by the overall Triumph participants. In general it is East Coast, Central Area and West Coast on a rotation basis. This has given us to date: Mosport, Ontario Canada, Buttonwillow California, Atlanta Raceway, Georgia, Hallet, Oklahoma, and the last, Miller Park, Utah. Too date race winners have been chosen three out of five events, DNF occurrences in the race event and other entanglements during the race did take some possible winners out of contention three times. From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 9 09:59:13 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:59:13 EDT Subject: [Fot] Kastner Cup Challenge-Car Eligibility and Awarding of Cup Message-ID: FoT, Every time we have a major event for the FoT, there is some sort of controversy. That's Ok, to a point. SVRA has always worked well with us on car eligibility to that end that seems to make the sense....at least to me. But we cant please everyone. (ipso facto) There is a method in place for the awarding of the Kastner Cup. For the time being it will remain in place. Perhaps we could bring the current list wide controversies to a close.....in the best interests of FoT. This is likely to be the best FoT Gathering that we have ever had. I would rather build on that premise than hash over issues that are likely have no good solutions. If anyone has any further heartburn, on this subject, please contact me directly and privately. I'll try my best to deal with it. Best Regards, Joe Alexander From Group44TR7 at aol.com Tue Oct 9 06:51:36 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:51:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: Amici One of the underlying fundamental reasons why there are many different sanctioning organizations is that there is no consensus on vintage preparation standards. Further, reflected in the differing standards is a fundamental difference in philosophy about the preparation of cars for racing. And even further, there is even more basic difference of philosophy about cars themselves; General racing for example has typically only included cars that have a real race history. On one extreme, we have only cars with an actual race history that supposedly is prepared to the same specifications as when they were raced and on opposite end is newly constructed race cars utilizing new technology. For FOT to have an event, it means that a compromise has to be reached to allow these cars to compete together. Philosophically, there is also a very big difference between drivers. On one extreme there are people who simply want to have fun driving as fast as they can with their car and the opposite extreme of someone who wants to win a competition. It would seem that we should have an agreement amongst FOT for those who want to compete as to the level of preparation allowed, a sort very basic of FOT GRC for the Kastner Cup that preferably references an already existing GRC. If you are in not in compliance, you simply are not eligible - but you can go on the track (if accepted by SVRA) to have fun driving your car. Thanks for listening, Cary In a message dated 10/8/2007 9:13:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lunkercars at earthlink.net writes: Begin forwarded message: > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM MDT > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > >> >> FoTers, >> I think Henry Morrison will be as surprised as I, to find myself >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this discussion >> several times before. However... Personally, I encourage expanded >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for bigger grids. >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a earlier >> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR. >> Regarding your car Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high >> level of preparation, wouldn't it be more concise to list what it >> DID leave the factory with? To me " All original steel panels >> except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door, all 4 wings and >> hardtop " is like saying " all original car except for body, >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know what GRP is >> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the >> rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of >> the art [which your car sounds to be] - not >> "an act or scheme to out whit or deceive" {Webster} >> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no disrespect aimed at >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason. >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules >> read: >> >> Engine: >> >> Same type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit). >> Period correct roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. >> Compression Ratio is limited to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be >> documented as higher from the factory as delivered for street >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and period correct. No aluminum >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless originally sold as >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free but must not conflict >> with stock type appearance of body. >> >> >> Carburetion: >> Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi >> count). No Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped. >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------- >> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in compliance with the >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host club] is even more strict >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 was [as graciously >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an inch of it's >> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group >> [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I >> doubt if Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - >> not really fair to the others. >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how my Vintage prepped >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans to attend >> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain! >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. group44tr7 at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Mon Oct 8 17:18:24 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoffrey Byrne) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:18:24 +1000 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 References: <20071006173059.4D3BE187A5A@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <000a01c80a01$887a2350$41e3efdc@co3017577a> Friends Just to add an international perspective for interest , Keiths car would not get an Historic Log Book in Australia . Our Historic cars have to be OEM with very little mods ie plus one inch wider wheels Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Files" To: "'Kas Kastner'" ; "'Mike Munson'" ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 3:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > HI everybody, > > Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on the > cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion > either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when > compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the > Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver TR6 > placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won outright > at VIR in 2004. > > My TR6 has: > > Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 pistons > (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, > Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 DCOE > Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, luminiton > ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic RaceCraft > for the princely sum of c $20k. > > Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, > Quartermaster clutch. > > Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on > circuit). > > Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where > terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. > > Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot > callipers (these do make a big difference). > > Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door > and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs > less than a standard road car. > > Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. > > The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by > Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. > > The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as > well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then > Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) by > a country mile. > > At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a > Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over > here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well > driven spitfires. > > As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over in > 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am > going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over > youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys just > to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are > available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are > some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). > > As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. > > Cheers, Keith. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Kas Kastner > Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 > To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; > ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; > sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Munson" > To: ; ; ; > ; ; ; > ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > > 1900 > > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > > higher level than what SCCA does. > > > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > > > Mike Munson > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > > run > > > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > > standards. > > > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > > championship > > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > > > Jack Woehrle > > SVRA Technical Director > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > kaskas at cox.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > keithfiles at btinternet.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gkbyrne at optushome.com.au > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 10:48:39 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:48:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <20071006173059.4D3BE187A5A@autox.team.net> References: <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> <20071006173059.4D3BE187A5A@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710080948q5a046676kabb4a7e1a12da23a@mail.gmail.com> Do, in SOVERN, the following would be illegal: +60 pistons [40=max] Any Webers [PI or two Strombergs only allowed] Roller rockers Maybe the tranny case Rear Konis [must use levers] Wilwood vented rotors Glass panels [any] So, what rate springs do you use [ponds/inch if possible] and what are their free lengths? Do you use a rear sway bar? Thanks. Hope to meet and race with you guys some time. Chuck Arnold On 10/6/07, Keith Files wrote: > > HI everybody, > > Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on > the > cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion > either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when > compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the > Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver > TR6 > placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won > outright > at VIR in 2004. > > My TR6 has: > > Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 > pistons > (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, > Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 > DCOE > Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, > luminiton > ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic > RaceCraft > for the princely sum of c $20k. > > Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, > Quartermaster clutch. > > Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on > circuit). > > Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where > terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. > > Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot > callipers (these do make a big difference). > > Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers > door > and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs > less than a standard road car. > > Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. > > The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by > Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. > > The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as > well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then > Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) > by > a country mile. > > At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a > Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over > here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well > driven spitfires. > > As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over > in > 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am > going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over > youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys > just > to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are > available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are > some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). > > As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. > > Cheers, Keith. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Kas Kastner > Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 > To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; > ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; > sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; > fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they > do > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Munson" > To: ; ; ; > ; ; ; > ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > > 1900 > > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > > higher level than what SCCA does. > > > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > > > Mike Munson > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > > run > > > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > > standards. > > > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > > championship > > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > > > Jack Woehrle > > SVRA Technical Director > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > kaskas at cox.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > keithfiles at btinternet.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 9 09:48:14 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Re:FOT GRC standard ...thankyou Cary, ..and foot in mouth disease ... Message-ID: <585641.8640.qm@web81109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry, forgot to click reply to all ... so here goes... Note: forwarded message attached. Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire Received: from [69.217.62.46] by web81106.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 08:43:10 PDT Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:43:09 -0700 (PDT) From: tom strange Subject: Re:FOT GRC standard ...thankyou Cary, ..and foot in mouth disease ... To: Group44TR7 at aol.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 3203 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Thank you cary for a very well written letter .. I thought that the FOT was all about camaraderie, promoting triumphs (in all venues), working together to solve problems, promote reliability and safety; and most of all to HAVE FUN. Please bear with my rant, and forgive blunders committed here. Vintage cars are going away. Racing is getting more expensive; becoming a deterrent to many people all by itself. As much as we may not want to face it, the older cars are getting harder to find, and more expensive to maintain. We have to decide if we want to have vintage racing just for us, and be an exclusive club that outlaws all new members and ideas or if we want to let the sport grow as things change. People racing 2008 BMWs will one day find that they cannot compete with the "new cars" but will love their car, and will want to continue to race it. Yes, it will then be a "vintage car". Eligibility talk came up after a bad accident at Road America. Many people expressed the sentiment that the accident happened because the cars were not "vintage correct". Wrong. The accident happened because "driver attitude" was not period correct. Everyone wanted to "clamp down" on the mods.. Very little comment was pointed toward clamping down on drivers with a bad attitude, or a record of causing accidents. Sorry folks, but guns do not shoot people, and cars do not cause accidents. People do. There are solutions. Midwestern council has an easy out. We have a class that can (and is) applied to all groups, classes etc. for cars that do not comply. They race with cars of comparable lap times, power / weight (in other words  in their proper class) but display the letters UNR  unrestricted. They cannot win points to take wins away from legal cars, but they do get to race, have fun, and play with their proper competitors. Drivers with Council who do not race in the spirit of their run group, are put on probation, or simply asked to leave. I dont think any current SCCA triumph is going to come to a national FOT event with plans to WIN against cars prepared to a 30 year old GCR. I dont think any properly prepared vintage car should have to compete against them either a simple UNR would fix that For that matter, any vintage driver who comes to a national FOT event simply to win, is not there in the spirit of vintage racing anymore than the SCCA driver who wants to use his advanced mods etc. to win and gain bragging rights. The bragging rights come from the fact that we all ran, we all had fun and we all went home safely. The cars should not be sent home from such an event because they are not completely eligible, but the drivers who race to win "at any cost" should be. Sorry for the long post and the rant, but I fear that we could tear a great group of people apart if we start arguing about eligibility at this event. Lets all play and we all have fun. Since it is a vintage group, those of us who do not fit in completely should respect the vintage spirit what we can do to fit in, we should do. If we are not completely eligible, lets leave the trophies to those who are, and most importantly, lets race in the spirit of vintage racing, whether we are vintage legal or not. My understanding is that the Kastner cup goes for promotion of the spirit of vintage racing, and thats the way it should be. I doubt that it will go to a current SCCA car, that races to win at any cost. Kas, please correct me if I am wrong Two notes to leave you with  at the Morgan festival at RA, there were brand new Morgans running because they were the featured car. They did not detract from the vintage morgans in any way this is the way it is at many events. Every year from the beginning of racing to today there are cars running that do not comply with the rules they just havent been caught at it I believe Kas has said that finding ways to make the rules work for you, and finding the things that are NOT specifically illegal, are the edges that many winning teams use to get where they are Lets not spend time arguing lets race. Thanks for listening . Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: Amici Philosophically, there is also a very big difference between drivers. On one extreme there are people who simply want to have fun driving as fast as they can with their car and the opposite extreme of someone who wants to win a competition. It would seem that we should have an agreement amongst FOT for those who want to compete as to the level of preparation allowed, a sort very basic of FOT GRC for the Kastner Cup that preferably references an already existing GRC. If you are in not in compliance, you simply are not eligible - but you can go on the track (if accepted by SVRA) to have fun driving your car. Thanks for listening, Cary ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com tstrange at sbcglobal.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Oct 9 19:17:50 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:17:50 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans Message-ID: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque N.M. From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 09:29:39 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:29:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710100829id1b7ffy93462ec9e45b8b8e@mail.gmail.com> On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one for a TR5/6 On 10/9/07, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: > > Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans > anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett > last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have > the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at > the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque N.M. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Oct 10 08:32:39 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:32:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] GT6 Racer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Check out the GT6. Some one on the list may know the car. It is local to me if anyone is interested. NFI Paul -----Original Message----- From: Kijiji Alerts [mailto:alerts at kijiji.com] Sent: October 10, 2007 1:38 AM To: macdonaldp at rogers.com Subject: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars Ottawa Home | Post Ad | My Kijiji | Help Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars 10-Oct-07 1974 Triumph TR6 ( $18,500.00 ) TRIUMPH GT6 RACE CAR PLUS SPARE CAR FOR PARTS CHEAP! ( $4,800.00 ) See all the Ads If you have any questions or concerns, visit contact us. Regards, The Kijiji Team -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unsubscribe from: This Alert | All Alerts Help About Privacy Policy Terms of Use Contact Kijiji Copyright ) 2005-2007 Kijiji International Limited. From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Oct 10 07:55:25 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:55:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars Message-ID: Check out the GT6. Some one on the list may know the car. It is local to me if anyone is interested. NFI Paul -----Original Message----- From: Kijiji Alerts [mailto:alerts at kijiji.com] Sent: October 10, 2007 1:38 AM To: macdonaldp at rogers.com Subject: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars Ottawa Home | Post Ad | My Kijiji | Help Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars 10-Oct-07 1974 Triumph TR6 ( $18,500.00 ) TRIUMPH GT6 RACE CAR PLUS SPARE CAR FOR PARTS CHEAP! ( $4,800.00 ) See all the Ads If you have any questions or concerns, visit contact us. Regards, The Kijiji Team -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unsubscribe from: This Alert | All Alerts Help About Privacy Policy Terms of Use Contact Kijiji Copyright ) 2005-2007 Kijiji International Limited. From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 9 23:30:03 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:30:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002101c80afe$9c8b3980$171a694c@computer> Hi, Bud, My race car is a '74 TR6 so not compatible with CSRG racing but I would like to come and see some vintage racing and, of course, partake of your booth. If I can only make it for one day, what day would you suggest and what times on that day? Thanks and I hope to see you and the other FOT guys there. Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 7:02 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON Hi Gang..Are any of you racing in/Attending the CSRG Charity challenge at Infineon next weekend?..I will be there with my 1967 dark blue Spitfire #21....Gary Horskorta will be racing his red TR4..My bet is that Ron Jacobs(havn't met you yet Ron) will be racing his TR4..and I can't remember the name of the Guy in the /Red Devin Triumph..we have 260+ entries...I will be saving pit space in the area behind the Grandstands for THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang(Look for the Banner)......It will be great if you Guys join us...I won't be able to save enough room for transporters...I usually grab a polite amount of space..6-12 cars..Not All Triumphs....All great people.....If you cannot pit with us..PLEASE Stop By and hang out for the entire weekend if you like...Everyone is always welcome..And your Help working on/giving input on the cars is Always Appreciated....We Truly Are..The Way It Was..Whoohoo!.. Thanks Folks Racer Bud and THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 10 10:01:08 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:01:08 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans and scattershields In-Reply-To: References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Thanks all, For some reason my trans request took 12+ hrs. to get posted on the list. I've got one on its way to a bus station in Wisconsin due to leach Abq. late tomorrow night. $85 plus a bus ticket on E-Bay... Sometimes you just gotta' love the on-line world. The Plum Pi just might make another grid. Regarding your scattershield question Chuck, I'm hoping that Henry might sell me something less than 1000' of used conveyor belt. I'm thinking that, combined with a aluminum inner skin should make for something workable. If I get my hands on some belt, I would be happy to send some out to anyone who wants some [can we work something out Henry?]. Greg Hilyer TR4 #314 P.S. Henry, I did send Rob a e-mail last night - I'll probably hear from him on my way back from the bus station. On Oct 10, 2007, at 9:36 AM, wrote: > Check with Rob Noyes Smith 821-4369 He's got one, hem ight not > want to part with it........Henry > > > To: fot at autox.team.net > > From: lunkercars at earthlink.net > > Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:17:50 -0600 > > Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans > > > > Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans > > anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in > Hallett > > last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have > > the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. > Looking at > > the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > > TR4 #314 > > Albuquerque N.M. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 10 10:06:06 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:06:06 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? In-Reply-To: <5C33EB5352EE814AB72F655EA92399A20EF7FC7A@exc2-na-chq.bfusa.com> References: <5C33EB5352EE814AB72F655EA92399A20EF7FC7A@exc2-na-chq.bfusa.com> Message-ID: Sure - Please send info just in case Henry does have a 1000' minimum... Honestly, I would be interested in seeing a picture of one. Greg On Oct 10, 2007, at 9:50 AM, Coffey, Jack wrote: > Chuck...Greg....I have a Deist blanket type scattershield...never > used. > If interested, I can send pix & look up what I paid for it > See attached e-mail for further info on attachment & development by > Mordy Dunst & John Frymark > > Jack Coffey > ph:615-937-1535 > coffeyjack at bfusa.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Chuck Arnold > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 10:30 AM > To: Greg Lunker Hilyer > Cc: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? > > On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one > for a > TR5/6 > > On 10/9/07, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: >> >> Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans >> anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett >> last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have >> the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at >> the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> triosan at gmail.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > coffeyjack at bfusa.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Oct 10 11:13:11 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:13:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here is the link. http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-2-TRIUMPH-GT6-MK-3-SPOR TS-CARS-PLUS-PARTS-BARGAIN-PRICED-W0QQAdIdZ26228231 It is about 1.5 hours from me..not really local. Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: October 10, 2007 9:55 AM To: Fot Subject: [Fot] FW: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars Check out the GT6. Some one on the list may know the car. It is local to me if anyone is interested. NFI Paul -----Original Message----- From: Kijiji Alerts [mailto:alerts at kijiji.com] Sent: October 10, 2007 1:38 AM To: macdonaldp at rogers.com Subject: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars Ottawa Home | Post Ad | My Kijiji | Help Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars 10-Oct-07 1974 Triumph TR6 ( $18,500.00 ) TRIUMPH GT6 RACE CAR PLUS SPARE CAR FOR PARTS CHEAP! ( $4,800.00 ) See all the Ads If you have any questions or concerns, visit contact us. Regards, The Kijiji Team -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unsubscribe from: This Alert | All Alerts Help About Privacy Policy Terms of Use Contact Kijiji Copyright ) 2005-2007 Kijiji International Limited. macdonaldp at rogers.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 10 12:34:46 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:34:46 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans In-Reply-To: References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6B571C0F-BA86-42AF-B845-9F32CDC553A7@earthlink.net> Yes to both. In fact the event is called The Hot Air Historics/ Redcoats on the Rio Grande and will feature a all british race on Saturday. This will likely be the last time we do an event in conjunction with Balloon Fiesta - we seem to lose workers to the ballooning activities. Come on down Kevin and bring some friends. Greg On Oct 10, 2007, at 11:11 AM, KEVIN LYNCH wrote: > Greg, you guys runnin' @ Sandia? Any balooning activities going on > that weekend or was all that last weekend? > > Kev Lynch > GT6 #6 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > To: FOT > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:17 PM > Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans > > Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans > anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett > last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have > the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at > the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque N.M. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > klynch_6 at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 10 16:30:50 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:30:50 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans and scattershields In-Reply-To: References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <91EF9819-2FB3-4A9C-B6D2-77B4496958CE@earthlink.net> Now that's the Spirit of Vintage!!! Thanks Henry. Will you be around tomorrow or off to Vegas? Greg On Oct 10, 2007, at 10:38 AM, wrote: > Come on by, 1000' is our usual minimum order but I'm sure I've got > a piece of scrap that will work for you................Henry 2227 > Commercial 259-1537 > From: lunkercars at earthlink.net > Subject: TR4 Trans and scattershields > Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:01:08 -0600 > To: dos_gusanos at msn.com; triosan at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net > > Thanks all, > For some reason my trans request took 12+ hrs. to get posted on the > list. I've got one on its way to a bus station in Wisconsin due to > leach Abq. late tomorrow night. $85 plus a bus ticket on E-Bay... > Sometimes you just gotta' love the on-line world. The Plum Pi just > might make another grid. > Regarding your scattershield question Chuck, I'm hoping that Henry > might sell me something less than 1000' of used conveyor belt. I'm > thinking that, combined with a aluminum inner skin should make for > something workable. If I get my hands on some belt, I would be > happy to send some out to anyone who wants some [can we work > something out Henry?]. > Greg Hilyer > TR4 #314 > > P.S. Henry, I did send Rob a e-mail last night - I'll probably hear > from him on my way back from the bus station. > > On Oct 10, 2007, at 9:36 AM, wrote: > > Check with Rob Noyes Smith 821-4369 He's got one, hem ight not > want to part with it........Henry > > > To: fot at autox.team.net > > From: lunkercars at earthlink.net > > Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:17:50 -0600 > > Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans > > > > Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans > > anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in > Hallett > > last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have > > the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. > Looking at > > the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > > TR4 #314 > > Albuquerque N.M. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 10 18:10:14 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 18:10:14 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans In-Reply-To: References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> <6B571C0F-BA86-42AF-B845-9F32CDC553A7@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Great Kevin, The track has RV hookups and I MIGHT be able to get you a freebie. IF I get the TR going [trans got on the bus this afternoon], I will welcome you to pedal our low power 510 around. SWMS has one day entries for $150 Sat including t-shirt and party - $125 Sunday - I can still get you the pre-registration price of $225 for both. How's that for a sales pitch? Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 P.S. I've seen you loose a hub before... assumed you had them stacked like cord wood. Actually, I think I may have been the first or second car past after you lost the wheel in Pueblo [ was driving Tom Deats' #79 Bugeye] They hadn't thrown the yellow yet and you can bet I was looking for a flying wheel in search of it's car!! Did you find it? How far away? Glad you kept the shiny side up. On Oct 10, 2007, at 4:44 PM, KEVIN LYNCH wrote: > I might, I just got an RV and need a road trip b4 the snow flies. I > lost a hub @ the Enduro so it'll be just an RV run if anything. > Didn't realize how much work this thing takes. Where will the > baloons be in relation to the track there? Kev > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > To: KEVIN LYNCH ; FOT > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:34 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 Trans > > Yes to both. In fact the event is called The Hot Air Historics/ > Redcoats on the Rio Grande and will feature a all british race on > Saturday. This will likely be the last time we do an event in > conjunction with Balloon Fiesta - we seem to lose workers to the > ballooning activities. Come on down Kevin and bring some friends. > Greg > On Oct 10, 2007, at 11:11 AM, KEVIN LYNCH wrote: > >> Greg, you guys runnin' @ Sandia? Any balooning activities going on >> that weekend or was all that last weekend? >> >> Kev Lynch >> GT6 #6 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> To: FOT >> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:17 PM >> Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans >> >> Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans >> anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett >> last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have >> the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at >> the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> klynch_6 at msn.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tony at tonydrews.com Wed Oct 10 18:57:07 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:57:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans In-Reply-To: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20071011005733.D79FA18763F@autox.team.net> When you replace the pressure plate, get the diaphragm type (Luk?), not the finger type one that came on the TR-3's. The finger type ones come apart, the diaphragm type from the later TR-4's don't. - Tony Drews At 08:17 PM 10/9/2007, Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer wrote: >Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans >anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett >last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have >the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at >the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. >Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >TR4 #314 >Albuquerque N.M. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >tony at tonydrews.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Wed Oct 10 20:40:04 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:40:04 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans and scattershields In-Reply-To: References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <470D8D04.5080203@bradakis.com> > For some reason my trans request took 12+ hrs. to get posted on the list. I try to keep things flowing along smoothly, but it doesn't always work. Some days you're the dog, some days you're the hydrant. There was a bit of a service interuption, should be back to normal. For now, at least - I'm fairly certain that "Qwest" is a four letter word. mjb. From spreiss at verizon.net Wed Oct 10 06:04:44 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 23:04:44 +1100 Subject: [Fot] fot emails Message-ID: <001501c80b35$bf938ef0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Hi I am a new fot member and glad to have access to the of depth knowledge offered by this group. I am wondering however if there is a way to set up my email preferences with fot so that I do not receive a copy of all emails sent between the membership, but rather to allow me to log on periodically and "tune in" to the discussions that have bearing on my interests and needs. Thanks for helping me make good use of this valuable resource. Steve Preiss From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 11 10:19:31 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:19:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] fot emails Message-ID: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com> Steve, there is digest version that you can subscribe to. from the Triumphest. Joe A >Hi >I am a new fot member and glad to have access to the of depth knowledge >offered by this group. I am wondering however if there is a way to set up my >email preferences with fot so that I do not receive a copy of all emails sent >between the membership, but rather to allow me to log on periodically and >"tune in" to the discussions that have bearing on my interests and needs. >Thanks for helping me make good use of this valuable resource. >Steve Preiss >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >n197tr4 at cs.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Thu Oct 11 11:14:12 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:14:12 -0600 Subject: [Fot] fot emails In-Reply-To: <001501c80b35$bf938ef0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> References: <001501c80b35$bf938ef0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: <470E59E4.2090404@bradakis.com> There are a couple of options. You can go to the info page, [ http://www.team.net/mailman/lisinfo ] log in and change your settings. The first thing you may want to try is setting your subscription to digest mode. This collects the individual emails into one single message sent out about once a day. It may suit your needs. Another option is to set your address to 'no mail' which means that address will still be on the list as a member, so you can send mail to the list. When you want to read what's been going on, go to the archive and browse around, http://www.team.net/archive You can read and respond to messages as desired. One other thing that I'll probably work on this fall is linking email lists to the discussion forums at http://www.team.net/the-local I tried it with triumphs and british-cars a while back, I don't know if anyone really bothered to use it. I never got it working quite right. Messages sent to the triumphs list showed up as forum postings. Postings on the british-cars forum were sent to the british-cars email list. I never took the time to figure out how to get them both working with two way traffic. Stay tuned, I may up the priority of that project. Actually I need to really go through ALL the Team.Net web pages to reorginise, update and improve. Yep, I'll get to it RealSoonNow, but first I have to get to work and start putting an MGC motor together! mjb. From britcars at bellsouth.net Thu Oct 11 11:22:49 2007 From: britcars at bellsouth.net (barry rosenberg) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:22:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] vandervell bearings on ebay Message-ID: Since I sold my TR4 race car and am quitting British car repair, I am selling off most of my accumulated stuff. I have a few sets of Triumph NOS Vandervell bearings I listed on ebay along with some of the NOS Lucas I have. Look up NOS Vandervell. I will be listing more stuff every so often. Thanks. From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Thu Oct 11 13:37:05 2007 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:37:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? References: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com> Message-ID: <001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott> http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx Is this for real ? From spitfiresuz at 141.com Thu Oct 11 13:56:51 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:56:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: <380-2200710411195651347@M2W004.mail2web.com> What I find amusing is they used the Triumph motorcycle logo for the rear plate in their "possible concept" rendition. I'll believe it when I see it! Neat article, though. :) Susan :) Original Message: ----------------- From: Don Elliott 58tr3a at videotron.ca Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:37:05 -0400 To: Fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx Is this for real ? spitfiresuz at 141.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web From S.Janzen at comcast.net Thu Oct 11 13:59:50 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:59:50 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? References: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com> <001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott> Message-ID: <006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Looks too much like a Saturn or Pontiac from the rear. BMW pulled it off with the iconic Mini shape and proportions but it may be harder to do with Triumph, unless they focus on the TR6 styling which is probably the best known here. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:37 PM Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? > http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx > > Is this for real ? > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Oct 11 14:19:54 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In-Reply-To: <006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com> <001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott> <006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, Scott Janzen wrote: > Looks too much like a Saturn or Pontiac from the rear. BMW pulled it off > with the iconic Mini shape and proportions but it may be harder to do with > Triumph, unless they focus on the TR6 styling which is probably the best > known here. Note that the GM "Kappa" platform is sold in Europe as the Opel GT (or is to be sold soon) but taking pix of those cars and "doctoring" them should be dead nuts simple. Of course GM is not BMW, so the pictures are probably not a good benchmark. I find the presence of persistent rumor of the rebirth of Triumph to be just fascinating. Imagine using a brand that's been dead for 25 years and generating "buzz" - that's a marketer's dream! Oh well. c ya, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From billb at bnj.com Thu Oct 11 14:21:33 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:21:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In-Reply-To: <380-2200710411195651347@M2W004.mail2web.com> References: <380-2200710411195651347@M2W004.mail2web.com> Message-ID: I caught that too. Odd that they considered the Triumph motorcycles to be an impediment to the brand. It's hardly that. On Oct 11, 2007, at 12:56 PM, spitfiresuz at 141.com wrote: > What I find amusing is they used the Triumph motorcycle logo for > the rear > plate in their "possible concept" rendition. > > I'll believe it when I see it! > > Neat article, though. :) > > Susan :) > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Don Elliott 58tr3a at videotron.ca > Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:37:05 -0400 > To: Fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? > > > http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx > > Is this for real ? > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Thu Oct 11 14:23:15 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:23:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In-Reply-To: <006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com> <001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott> <006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: Looks almost exactly like a Solstice, thought that's not exactly a bad thing. I'd be a lot more interested in a retro Triumph than a retro mini, but then we represent a tiny market, while the mini went after a pretty big one. On Oct 11, 2007, at 12:59 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: > Looks too much like a Saturn or Pontiac from the rear. BMW pulled > it off > with the iconic Mini shape and proportions but it may be harder to > do with > Triumph, unless they focus on the TR6 styling which is probably the > best > known here. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:37 PM > Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? > > >> http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx >> >> Is this for real ? >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> s.janzen at comcast.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From sbracing at sbcglobal.net Thu Oct 11 14:41:04 2007 From: sbracing at sbcglobal.net (Steven Benford Jr) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In-Reply-To: <001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott> Message-ID: <443314.28890.qm@web81008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The calendar says October 11 and not April 1st. Would be nice. I noticed the Triumph motorcycle logo as well. Don't you think the BMW marketing folks would have noticed that? Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> wrote: http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx Is this for real ? sbracing at sbcglobal.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tlizzard at msn.com Thu Oct 11 15:45:23 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:45:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? References: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com><001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott><006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: Looks like British pulp "news" fiction to me. Not that I'm against the idea mind you, but it will be difficult for anyone to unseat the Miata in the North American market. The Miata is just too good a car. Superb dynamics, coupled with Japanese reliability and a huge dealer network. Competeing directly against the little Mazda roadster will spell disaster. The only way to bring in a new sportscar would be to either go upmarket or downmarket from the Miata. I cannot see BMW going up in price as it will then compete directly against it's own Z roadster, and BMW has no clue how to build an inexpensive, entry level car so that is out as well. Another issue is that the majority of the market are not us, so to speak. When you say "Triumph sportscar" to someone 90% of the time the response is, "Oh a buddy of mine had a TR7, it was a piece of junk." I've had people even call my TR3 a TR7 and ask how I keep it running. There is a large negative image problem that would have to be overcome somehow for the car to sell in any kind of numbers. And then there is the spectre of a Triumph with a German engine. That makes my skin crawl. But I'm a crumudgon about that sort of thing. After all, you wouldn't put a DB 605 in a Supermarine Spitfire now would you. Terry Stetler. From tlizzard at msn.com Thu Oct 11 15:50:21 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:50:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] fot emails References: <001501c80b35$bf938ef0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> <470E59E4.2090404@bradakis.com> Message-ID: A forum would be very interesting. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark J. Bradakis To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] fot emails There are a couple of options. You can go to the info page, [ http://www.team.net/mailman/lisinfo ] log in and change your settings. The first thing you may want to try is setting your subscription to digest mode. This collects the individual emails into one single message sent out about once a day. It may suit your needs. Another option is to set your address to 'no mail' which means that address will still be on the list as a member, so you can send mail to the list. When you want to read what's been going on, go to the archive and browse around, http://www.team.net/archive You can read and respond to messages as desired. One other thing that I'll probably work on this fall is linking email lists to the discussion forums at http://www.team.net/the-local I tried it with triumphs and british-cars a while back, I don't know if anyone really bothered to use it. I never got it working quite right. Messages sent to the triumphs list showed up as forum postings. Postings on the british-cars forum were sent to the british-cars email list. I never took the time to figure out how to get them both working with two way traffic. Stay tuned, I may up the priority of that project. Actually I need to really go through ALL the Team.Net web pages to reorginise, update and improve. Yep, I'll get to it RealSoonNow, but first I have to get to work and start putting an MGC motor together! mjb. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 11 19:37:53 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:37:53 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710100829id1b7ffy93462ec9e45b8b8e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006501c80c70$82140640$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> I am collecting data on a variety of ballistic materials, Kevlar being one of them. I intend to fabricate my own scatter shield by lining the tunnel. I have some inquiries out now requesting ballistic properties and I have expalined what I intend to do. This is one company I have inquired to. http://www.armorco.com/shop/category.asp?catid=3 You really don't need that much material since all you need is enough to cover the bell housing with sufficient thickness. I have never heard of a catastophic transmission explosion in a Triumph but I have seen 1/2 of a flywheel fired through the hood of an MG like it was shot out of a cannon. The damage done to the footwells and firewall was absolutely hair raising. The only reason the driver retained his right foot was the remaining half hit the steering shaft before it took out the gas pedal, brake lines, fuel line, misc electrical and then penetrated the passenger side foot well and eventually seperated the engine from the transmission completely. I will pass on all the info I get. Jim Gray RMVR # 102 TR4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Chuck Arnold Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 9:30 AM To: Greg Lunker Hilyer Cc: FOT Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one for a TR5/6 On 10/9/07, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: > > Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans anywhere > near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett last > weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have the > car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at the > carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. Greg > "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 > Albuquerque N.M. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Thu Oct 11 20:06:15 2007 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:06:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? References: <006501c80c70$82140640$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Message-ID: <000801c80c74$78df7830$5e062218@alex> Thanks for the effort James I am interested in replacing my current heavy 1/8" stainless steal shroud. rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Gray" To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Scatershield source? >I am collecting data on a variety of ballistic materials, Kevlar being > one of them. I intend to > fabricate my own scatter shield by lining the tunnel. I have some > inquiries out now requesting ballistic > properties and I have expalined what I intend to do. This is one company > I have inquired to. > http://www.armorco.com/shop/category.asp?catid=3 > You really don't need that much material since all you need is enough to > cover the bell housing > with sufficient thickness. > I have never heard of a catastophic transmission explosion in a Triumph > but I have seen 1/2 of > a flywheel fired through the hood of an MG like it was shot out of a > cannon. > The damage done to the footwells and firewall was absolutely hair > raising. > The only reason the driver retained his right foot was the remaining > half hit the steering shaft before > it took out the gas pedal, brake lines, fuel line, misc electrical and > then penetrated the passenger side > foot well and eventually seperated the engine from the transmission > completely. > I will pass on all the info I get. > Jim Gray > RMVR # 102 > TR4 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of Chuck Arnold > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 9:30 AM > To: Greg Lunker Hilyer > Cc: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? > > > On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one for a > TR5/6 > > On 10/9/07, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: >> >> Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans anywhere > >> near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett last >> weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have the >> car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at the >> carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. Greg >> "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> triosan at gmail.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > > > -- > Chuck Arnold > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > 19to1tr6 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Herald948 at aol.com Thu Oct 11 20:22:17 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:22:17 EDT Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/11/2007 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tlizzard at msn.com writes: And then there is the spectre of a Triumph with a German engine. That makes my skin crawl. But I'm a crumudgon about that sort of thing. ==AM== Don't forget that Triumph was started by Nuremberg-born Siegfried Bettmann. ;-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From Herald948 at aol.com Thu Oct 11 20:24:14 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:24:14 EDT Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/11/2007 4:22:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: I caught that too. Odd that they considered the Triumph motorcycles to be an impediment to the brand. It's hardly that. ==AM== Actually, I think the name is fairly well respected for motorcycles as well as cars and has been for some time (in fact, it was a well-respected name even in the mid-1930s, when the company, having already sold off the bicycle division, sold off the motorcycle division)! --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From hottr6 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 11 20:34:12 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:34:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? Message-ID: >On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one for a >TR5/6 Uncle Jack used to sell them. I have one in Rags. Fits great with minimal impact on room for the right foot. Shane Ingate, enjoying the stars in New Mexico. _________________________________________________________________ Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. Its free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM From mlcooknj at msn.com Thu Oct 11 20:51:02 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:51:02 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: And then there's the German car with a Triumph engine that is fetching incredible sums at auction - and it probably holds water better than the idea of a BMW-built Triumph. Mike Cook ----- Original Message ----- From: Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:22 PM To: tlizzard at msn.com; Fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In a message dated 10/11/2007 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tlizzard at msn.com writes: And then there is the spectre of a Triumph with a German engine. That makes my skin crawl. But I'm a crumudgon about that sort of thing. ==AM== Don't forget that Triumph was started by Nuremberg-born Siegfried Bettmann. ;-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com mlcooknj at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mlcooknj at msn.com Thu Oct 11 21:02:04 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:02:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: Hi All- I think I have said this before but .... There is no commercial sense in BMW trying to launch a new Triumph sports car. If it is to be like the originals, "affordable," the potential sales volume could not possibly justify the development cost. The potential customers for such a car have probably never heard of Triumph or MG. BMW already has a range of sports models. So, unless the announcement comes from them, on BMW letterhead, anything you see on the internet or in print is a pipe dream. Mike Cook ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 4:23 PM To: Scott Janzen Cc: Fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Looks almost exactly like a Solstice, thought that's not exactly a bad thing. I'd be a lot more interested in a retro Triumph than a retro mini, but then we represent a tiny market, while the mini went after a pretty big one. On Oct 11, 2007, at 12:59 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: > Looks too much like a Saturn or Pontiac from the rear. BMW pulled > it off > with the iconic Mini shape and proportions but it may be harder to > do with > Triumph, unless they focus on the TR6 styling which is probably the > best > known here. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:37 PM > Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? > > >> http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx >> >> Is this for real ? >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> s.janzen at comcast.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot mlcooknj at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitfiresuz at 141.com Thu Oct 11 20:56:40 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:56:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <470EE268.4070203@141.com> GOOD one, Mike! :D Ours has probably valued upward 150-200% since we got it in 2001. ;) Susan :) michael cook wrote: > And then there's the German car with a Triumph engine that is fetching > incredible sums at auction - and it probably holds water better than the idea > of a BMW-built Triumph. > > Mike Cook > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Herald948 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:22 PM > To: tlizzard at msn.com; Fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? > > In a message dated 10/11/2007 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > tlizzard at msn.com writes: > > And then there is the spectre of a Triumph with a German engine. That makes > my skin crawl. But I'm a crumudgon about that sort of thing. > > > ==AM== > Don't forget that Triumph was started by Nuremberg-born Siegfried Bettmann. > ;-) > > --Andy Mace > > *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? > *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph > Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > > Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald > Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) > > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > mlcooknj at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From mlcooknj at msn.com Thu Oct 11 21:05:07 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:05:07 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: Susan- Smart and incisive analysis! You can judge the value of the article by the fact that the people don't even know the difference in the logos. Ain't gonna happen. I'll even bet $$$ on it. (anybody got two bits?) Mike Cook ----- Original Message ----- From: spitfiresuz at 141.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:57 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? What I find amusing is they used the Triumph motorcycle logo for the rear plate in their "possible concept" rendition. I'll believe it when I see it! Neat article, though. :) Susan :) Original Message: ----------------- From: Don Elliott 58tr3a at videotron.ca Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:37:05 -0400 To: Fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx Is this for real ? spitfiresuz at 141.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web mlcooknj at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fasttrs at mindspring.com Thu Oct 11 21:00:35 2007 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:00:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Kastner Cup Challenge-Car Eligibility and Awarding of Cup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000b01c80c7c$0f906b20$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> I must apologize for bringing this controversy back into discussion. Thanks for all the kind words. I do value the friendships and the memories that I have gained by being a part of this group. I have put too much money and hard work into my car to turn around and spend more money on it for just one race. Mike -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:59 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Kastner Cup Challenge-Car Eligibility and Awarding of Cup FoT, Every time we have a major event for the FoT, there is some sort of controversy. That's Ok, to a point. SVRA has always worked well with us on car eligibility to that end that seems to make the sense....at least to me. But we cant please everyone. (ipso facto) There is a method in place for the awarding of the Kastner Cup. For the time being it will remain in place. Perhaps we could bring the current list wide controversies to a close.....in the best interests of FoT. This is likely to be the best FoT Gathering that we have ever had. I would rather build on that premise than hash over issues that are likely have no good solutions. If anyone has any further heartburn, on this subject, please contact me directly and privately. I'll try my best to deal with it. From Group44TR7 at aol.com Thu Oct 11 21:01:43 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:01:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted Message-ID: When was it that SCCA first started requiring that the production class roll cage design include structural support in front of the driver? I am asking that question because I am under the impression that it was not required by the GRC in 1972. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From gasket.works at verizon.net Thu Oct 11 22:34:43 2007 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (MDunst/Gasket Works) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:34:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? References: Message-ID: <002201c80c89$366b1760$1502a8c0@Belkin> I once had several of these made out of balistic material with SFI rating. It was made by Diest perhaps you can contact them directly and ask for the TR4 scattershield. I'm sure they still have the pattern. It wraps completely around the gearbox with heavy nyon straps. It has steel tabs up front that bolt to the bell housing. M. Dunst www.headgasket.com Gasket Works USA, LLC 626.358.1616 Voice 626.628.3777 Fax GMT -8 Pacific ----- Original Message ----- From: Shane Ingate To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Scatershield source? > >On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one for a > >TR5/6 > > Uncle Jack used to sell them. I have one in Rags. Fits great with minimal > impact on room for the right foot. > > Shane Ingate, enjoying the stars in New Mexico. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. > Its free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gasket.works at gte.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Fri Oct 12 00:04:27 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:04:27 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Play in steering column Message-ID: <000001c80c95$bf282a00$171a694c@computer> One of my TR6s was used to SCCA club race in the eighties and nineties. >From all that pulling on the steering wheel, it has developed about < to = inch of in and out play (felt as movement at the steering wheel) where the column goes into the steering box. Not having been into the rack and pinion I'm not sure what is happening so I don't know if it is fixable, needs to be replaced, or if it can go quite a while before being replaced. The car is not on the street; I only autocross and race it. Thanks, Jim Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From rocky at spitfire4.com Fri Oct 12 03:12:01 2007 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:12:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted References: Message-ID: <001c01c80caf$f94a10d0$6601a8c0@S1099895562> I think it was probably 2000. That year I went to get an annual and flunked and the front support was one of the reasons, so the tech inspector was nice enough to write nothing in my logbook. Since I was only planning to do a couple of regionals after not racing in '99, I bagged that and went and fixed the car instead. I have annuals in the book in 1999 and 2001 on adjacent pages -- until this year 2000 is the only gap since 1995. In '72 only the roll bar was required by GCR. My car's logbooks go back to then, when logbooks were first required, and the pictures in that book show only a rollbar. Pictures in my second logbook, issued in '79, also show only the bar. I don't think I put in the cage until the early '80s, and even then it was not yet required. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted > When was it that SCCA first started requiring that the production class > roll > cage design include structural support in front of the driver? I am > asking > that question because I am under the impression that it was not required > by > the GRC in 1972. From chris at tr4-racing.de Fri Oct 12 04:30:25 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (chris at tr4-racing.de) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:30:25 +0000 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) Message-ID: <95016055-1192185033-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1268214521-@bxe014.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Hi Mike, Over here we ignore the problem if cars are more modified than others. If the UK drivers enter a race of the Triumph-Competition, we know that the come with very fast cars an tough drivers. The will probably will win all TC races but that don't bother us to much. It does bother the people who are keen on overall wins.....but who cares?! If you invite UK drivers.....be prepared that they might take you the win away. But you learn how fast this lump Triumph stuff can go. Always a pleasure to meet those English teams. Cheers Chris __________________ I must apologize for bringing this controversy back into discussion. Thanks for all the kind words. I do value the friendships and the memories that I have gained by being a part of this group. I have put too much money and hard work into my car to turn around and spend more money on it for just one race. Mike Gesendet mit BlackBerry von Vodafone From Group44TR7 at aol.com Fri Oct 12 05:45:46 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 07:45:46 EDT Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronologically Gifted Message-ID: Joe, Rocky, .. All of our ITA and ITS cars had full cages back in the late 1980s, so I can't imagine that the production classes (other than perhaps showroom stock) could have been running without full cages before 2000. I am also wondering whether the full cage requirements were imposed at different times on open cars vs coupes, sedans. Cary In a message dated 10/12/2007 2:12:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rocky at spitfire4.com writes: I think it was probably 2000. That year I went to get an annual and flunked and the front support was one of the reasons, so the tech inspector was nice enough to write nothing in my logbook. Since I was only planning to do a couple of regionals after not racing in '99, I bagged that and went and fixed the car instead. I have annuals in the book in 1999 and 2001 on adjacent pages -- until this year 2000 is the only gap since 1995. In '72 only the roll bar was required by GCR. My car's logbooks go back to then, when logbooks were first required, and the pictures in that book show only a rollbar. Pictures in my second logbook, issued in '79, also show only the bar. I don't think I put in the cage until the early '80s, and even then it was not yet required. --Rocky Entriken ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From DSPGTi at aol.com Fri Oct 12 06:13:36 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 08:13:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted Message-ID: I recently purchased the SCCA Vintage and Historic Rule book. Included in the book are reprints of several years of the GCR the last being 1972. Under 1972 general specifications it is stated that all cars must have a "roll bar" and includes a reference to specifications in Appendix Z. There is no Appendix Z included in the reprint so I will contact SCCA to see if I can get a copy. If there are any other specific details anyone is interested in, please feel free to contact me. Dave Y. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From Herald948 at aol.com Fri Oct 12 07:06:07 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:06:07 EDT Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/11/2007 11:01:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mlcooknj at msn.com writes: I think I have said this before but .... There is no commercial sense in BMW trying to launch a new Triumph sports car. If it is to be like the originals, "affordable," the potential sales volume could not possibly justify the development cost. ==AM== Probably true. But then, what price level is considered "affordable" nowadays? ==AM== The potential customers for such a car have probably never heard of Triumph or MG. ==AM== Also probably true. On the other hand, BMW deserves credit for brilliant marketing in the US, where -- realistically speaking -- more people likely remembered the Hudson Jet or the Henry J than remembered the original Mini. ;-) At the same time, Mazda did an equally brilliant job of reviving the "affordable sports car," in part by capitalizing on the memories of TRs and Spitfires and MGBs, etc. But that was nearly 20 years ago, when memories of such cars were fresher. ==AM== BMW already has a range of sports models. ==AM== Yes, but I'm not sure any of them could be considered "affordable" in the same way that Triumphs were. If BMW were to bring back Triumph, I imagine it will be much more upmarket, the way the MINI is at least in the US. (Sadly, we don't get any of the more basic levels of MINI here. Too bad, since that means a brand-new MINI likely will never be in my price range.) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From DSPGTi at aol.com Fri Oct 12 07:16:06 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:16:06 EDT Subject: [Fot] Kastner Cup Challenge-Car Eligibility and Awarding of Cup Message-ID: In the past, SVRA has been very liberal with allowing exceptions for the featured marque cars. Cars modified beyond vintage rules would fall into group 8. As far as the Kastner Cup race goes, it doesn't matter the level of mods. We will have everything from Prewar up. We can't all expect to be competitive under that kind of grouping. Let's just do it for the show. Dave Y. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From kaskas at cox.net Fri Oct 12 09:29:50 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 08:29:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted References: Message-ID: <004101c80ce4$bb01e700$5717c548@RW> All the cars I prepared in 1972 had roll over bars and NONE had a driver dash support for it was not required by the GCR of the SCCA. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 8:01 PM Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted > When was it that SCCA first started requiring that the production class > roll > cage design include structural support in front of the driver? I am > asking > that question because I am under the impression that it was not required > by > the GRC in 1972. > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Fri Oct 12 10:59:08 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (steve) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:59:08 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [Fot] TR3 / 4 cam needed Message-ID: <13479731.1192208348871.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Does anyone out there have a used stock cam for a TR3 / 4 for sale? Ted S is going to grind it for my race car. ~Steve From rocky at spitfire4.com Fri Oct 12 13:52:42 2007 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:52:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronologically Gifted References: Message-ID: <002401c80d09$74a3ae90$6701a8c0@S1099895562> "Full Cage" in the '80s meant a four-post structure roughly approximating the A and B pillars of a passenger sedan. Usually they were, at minimum, a 6-point structure including a couple of rearward (usually) supports. The newer portion forward of the "A Pillars" made mine an 8-point structure, and was not described to me as cage support so much as leg protection. The knee bar was, earlier on, a recommendation. It apparently became a requirement along with the forward supports. The evolution of mine kinda tells the tale. It began in 1971 as an Autopower competition rollbar -- a 4-point structure with two feet on the floor behind the seat and two on the back inner fenders. Then in the '80s I added a Kirk cage kit which made it a 6-point when two more feet were added in the front part of the driver compartment. The cage kit was two bent bars extending forward from the top of the rollbar, a crossbar mounted high in front, and a double door bar on the driver side. There was no bar in the kit for the passenger-side door so we put one in from straight bar stock. When I added the forward extensions and knee bar -- Charlie Clark of KC Raceware in Kansas City did that for me -- we also added a second door bar on the passenger side which I believe at that time had become required. While my driver-side door bars are fairly close together and joined with vertical links, the passenger-side door bars are not joined in that manner and are farther apart. At that time too, Charlie told me my whole cage was over-spec -- bigger bars than the rules required for my size car -- so he made the forward extensions out of the smaller bars. The bigger bars was simply what Autopower and Kirk provided, and more recently I'm glad they are over-spec -- my rationale there is that the specs are predicated on me getting on my head or a similar-size car (Sprites, etc.) trying to share my space, but now I find myself out there with GT1 Camaros and the like going by me 60 mph faster than I can do so having the over-spec cage makes me feel a little better about that. Most recently we added a crossbar between the uprights of the original Autopower rollbar. Its sole purpose is to be an anchor for the shoulder harness straps so I'm no longer bolting them (at too much angle) to the floor. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: Group44TR7 at aol.com To: rocky at spitfire4.com ; fot at autox.team.net Cc: JWoesvra at aol.com Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronologically Gifted Joe, Rocky, .. All of our ITA and ITS cars had full cages back in the late 1980s, so I can't imagine that the production classes (other than perhaps showroom stock) could have been running without full cages before 2000. I am also wondering whether the full cage requirements were imposed at different times on open cars vs coupes, sedans. Cary In a message dated 10/12/2007 2:12:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rocky at spitfire4.com writes: I think it was probably 2000. That year I went to get an annual and flunked and the front support was one of the reasons, so the tech inspector was nice enough to write nothing in my logbook. Since I was only planning to do a couple of regionals after not racing in '99, I bagged that and went and fixed the car instead. I have annuals in the book in 1999 and 2001 on adjacent pages -- until this year 2000 is the only gap since 1995. In '72 only the roll bar was required by GCR. My car's logbooks go back to then, when logbooks were first required, and the pictures in that book show only a rollbar. Pictures in my second logbook, issued in '79, also show only the bar. I don't think I put in the cage until the early '80s, and even then it was not yet required. --Rocky Entriken ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Fri Oct 12 16:20:45 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:20:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <470FF33D.8050909@cyberspeedway.net> Are you talking about the foot intrusion protection forward of the front hoop? That is relatively new. We have a regional this weekend and I will try to sort it out. I will also see if we can determine exactly when a full cage was required on newly constructed cars. For a long time the roll hoop cars were grandfathered in after newly constructed cars were required to have hoops. Greg Lund Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > When was it that SCCA first started requiring that the production class roll > cage design include structural support in front of the driver? I am asking > that question because I am under the impression that it was not required by > the GRC in 1972. > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gtlund at cyberspeedway.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Fri Oct 12 20:14:03 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:14:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Looking for a TR6 hardtop in N. California Message-ID: <000001c80d3e$ba880930$171a694c@computer> Does anyone know of a TR6 hardtop for sale in Northern California? It can be rough (even dents and no headliner) since I only need it in order to be eligible to rallycross. Jim Hearn Sacramento Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Fri Oct 12 22:20:39 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:20:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] cage trivia Message-ID: <47104797.3030309@cyberspeedway.net> After combing through available SCCA GCRs and PCSs we have come up with the following: The oldest GCR we have on hand is 1987. This refers to production cars only 1.Forward bracing of the front hoop is required in '87 but we don't know when it was first required. The showroom stock cages were 6 point without forward braces but we can't tell or remember if production/GT cages were ever allowed without forward braces. 2.Cars registered after 1/1/79 are required to have roll cages. This means that cars which were built and logbooked before 1/1/79 were still able to race in '87 with only a roll hoop. I don't have a date when the roll cage was required for all. FYI I noticed that cells were first required for newly constructed cars in 1983. I don't know when they became mandatory for all. Greg Lund From koblinger at verizon.net Fri Oct 12 22:58:54 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:58:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] cage trivia In-Reply-To: <47104797.3030309@cyberspeedway.net> References: <47104797.3030309@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <4710508E.8040001@verizon.net> Just a data point. Below is a link to a photo of Elliot Forbes-Robinson in a GP Spit from Nov. 1980. If I remember right, the event was a 4 hour Regional Enduro. You can see that the cage has forward braces from the vertical legs of the hoop. http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8957/efrspitfirepc9.jpg Cheers, Kurt O. greg wrote: >After combing through available SCCA GCRs and PCSs we have come up with >the following: >The oldest GCR we have on hand is 1987. > >This refers to production cars only > 1.Forward bracing of the front hoop is required in '87 but we don't >know when it was first required. The showroom stock cages were 6 point >without forward braces but we can't tell or remember if production/GT >cages were ever allowed without forward braces. > > 2.Cars registered after 1/1/79 are required to have roll cages. This >means that cars which were built and logbooked before 1/1/79 were still >able to race in '87 with only a roll hoop. I don't have a date when the >roll cage was required for all. > >FYI I noticed that cells were first required for newly constructed cars >in 1983. I don't know when they became mandatory for all. > >Greg Lund >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rikrock at aol.com Sat Oct 13 10:50:46 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 12:50:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Who Knows This Spit Racecar? Message-ID: <8C9DBD055C6F22B-85C-8B25@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> Amici, A gentleman by the name of Lapham is selling a vintage-legal Spitfire racer somewhere in Indiana.? A friend of mine ?is considering buying the car.? The owner says it has been raced at Gingerman, Blackhawk, Mid-Ohio, and I forget where else.? If you know the car, could you please let me know what you know? Or, if anyone knows of a legal (or close to legal) Triumph of?ANY model for sale, could you please point me to it?? My buddy lives in southeastern PA, but he'll go far for a good deal ! Thanks! Rich Rock Pottstown, PA ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From igofaster at charter.net Sat Oct 13 12:38:48 2007 From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:38:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] motor oil query Message-ID: <20071013143848.ODKBZ.107222.root@fepweb14> Heys guys,,, newbie to the forum...STILL appreciative of the non-stop information. My GT6 is equipped with Kendall 50W motor oil at the time. We've run three weekends now and wonder if we can run a synthetic now. I haven't been able to locate the Kendall in Texas. My parts guy is recommending Amsoil synthetic. What is the consensus among our group.... Bullet Bob recommended a BRAD PENN motor oil of which I'm having difficulties locating as well... am I just looking in the wrong places? Kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead 33 GT6+ From fpspitfire at insightbb.com Sat Oct 13 12:44:52 2007 From: fpspitfire at insightbb.com (fpspitfire at insightbb.com) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:44:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] motor oil query In-Reply-To: <20071013143848.ODKBZ.107222.root@fepweb14> References: <20071013143848.ODKBZ.107222.root@fepweb14> Message-ID: I'm a big fan of the RedLine products. I run 40 wt. in my car. aaron #8 HP Spitfire 1500 Southern Illinois Region SCCA ----- Original Message ----- From: igofaster at charter.net Date: Saturday, October 13, 2007 13:39 Subject: [Fot] motor oil query To: fot at autox.team.net > Heys guys,,, newbie to the forum...STILL appreciative of the non- > stop information. My GT6 is equipped with Kendall 50W motor oil > at the time. We've run three weekends now and wonder if we can > run a synthetic now. I haven't been able to locate the Kendall > in Texas. My parts guy is recommending Amsoil synthetic. What is > the consensus among our group.... Bullet Bob recommended a > BRAD PENN motor oil of which I'm having difficulties locating as > well... am I just looking in the wrong places? > > Kindest regards, > Bobby Whitehead > 33 GT6+ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > fpspitfire at insightbb.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chris at tr4-racing.de Sat Oct 13 13:14:10 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: <004601c80dcd$3fe68d70$6402a8c0@HOME> It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing car on its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some bucks more to spend... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w From billb at bnj.com Sat Oct 13 15:53:50 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:53:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <004601c80dcd$3fe68d70$6402a8c0@HOME> References: <004601c80dcd$3fe68d70$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <5B2AF419-4D62-4416-AAF6-A64CE71D9564@bnj.com> I wonder if it's a real one--I looked at the replica 917 that's been for sale on ebay--It was at Road America as I recall. Very nicely done, RSR motor, lot's a trick stuff. It would be fun to drive it on the road, and the price was reasonable. I nearly bought it, but sanity overtook me. Besides, what I really want is a Lola T70 for the street. On Oct 13, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive > racing car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chris at tr4-racing.de Sat Oct 13 16:20:56 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 00:20:56 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: <35F0134E183D4500A765795E49D7D954@Notebook> There are several 917 in road legal versions. The most famous one was the "Berg Spider" which was used for hill climbs. Here some other ones: http://www.nine-one-seven.de/registry_917021.htm http://www.i-t-d.net/Porsche_917/917-Strasse/917-strasse.php The car on that video is from here.....and a still used race car: http://www.ottocars.net/ The owner webside... Cheers Chris I wonder if it's a real one--I looked at the replica 917 that's been for sale on ebay--It was at Road America as I recall. Very nicely done, RSR motor, lot's a trick stuff. It would be fun to drive it on the road, and the price was reasonable. I nearly bought it, but sanity overtook me. Besides, what I really want is a Lola T70 for the street. On Oct 13, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive > racing car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tony at tonydrews.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 13 18:56:33 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 17:56:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <35F0134E183D4500A765795E49D7D954@Notebook> Message-ID: <122711.19574.qm@web57603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Now that's just plain showing off! Lucky (deleted)! Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: There are several 917 in road legal versions. The most famous one was the "Berg Spider" which was used for hill climbs. Here some other ones: http://www.nine-one-seven.de/registry_917021.htm http://www.i-t-d.net/Porsche_917/917-Strasse/917-strasse.php The car on that video is from here.....and a still used race car: http://www.ottocars.net/ The owner webside... Cheers Chris I wonder if it's a real one--I looked at the replica 917 that's been for sale on ebay--It was at Road America as I recall. Very nicely done, RSR motor, lot's a trick stuff. It would be fun to drive it on the road, and the price was reasonable. I nearly bought it, but sanity overtook me. Besides, what I really want is a Lola T70 for the street. On Oct 13, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive > racing car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot tony at tonydrews.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. From rocky at spitfire4.com Sat Oct 13 21:08:24 2007 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:08:24 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Who Knows This Spit Racecar? References: <8C9DBD055C6F22B-85C-8B25@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000001c80e12$c2e978a0$6701a8c0@S1099895562> He might call my friend (and engine-builder) Duane Bailey of West Michigan Imports, who's a Spitfire racer and GingerMan is his nearest track. He'd probably know about any Spits racing in GLDiv. 616-878-5774 or dbailey_wmi at yahoo.com --Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 11:50 AM Subject: [Fot] Who Knows This Spit Racecar? > Amici, > > A gentleman by the name of Lapham is selling a vintage-legal Spitfire > racer somewhere in Indiana.? A friend of mine ?is considering buying the > car.? The owner says it has been raced at Gingerman, Blackhawk, Mid-Ohio, > and I forget where else.? If you know the car, could you please let me > know what you know? > > Or, if anyone knows of a legal (or close to legal) Triumph of?ANY model > for sale, could you please point me to it?? My buddy lives in southeastern > PA, but he'll go far for a good deal ! > > Thanks! > > Rich Rock > Pottstown, PA > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rocky at spitfire4.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Sat Oct 13 23:35:28 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:35:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Play in steering column In-Reply-To: <5C33EB5352EE814AB72F655EA92399A20EF7FC8D@exc2-na-chq.bfusa.com> Message-ID: <000101c80e24$074a4ae0$171a694c@computer> Somehow my email read incorrectly on the amount of play in my steering column and it ended up looking like about an inch of play. I put some fractions in but they didn't stay that way in the email. The movement was about .090 of an inch but still it was bothersome especially if it was in the steering box. I appreciate all the posts on this and Jack it did happen to be what you had experienced. It was the pinch on the spline down by the steering box. Nice to have an easy fix. Thanks again guys. Jim Hearn Sacramento Two '74 TR6s -----Original Message----- From: Coffey, Jack [mailto:CoffeyJack at bfusa.com] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 6:22 AM To: jim hearn Subject: RE: [Fot] Play in steering column Hi Jim... I have experienced similar problems with my TR250....check the pinch-bolts that hold the steering shaft splines in the lower universal joint (just north of the steering rack). It is also possible to do some adjustment at the upper end of the steering shaft and check the under dash steering shaft brackets .... there is a felt packing material in these brackets which deteriorates and allows 'slop' to develop. All of these operations are detailed in the TR6 repair operations manual Jack Coffey ph:615-937-1535 coffeyjack at bfusa.com -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jim hearn Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 1:04 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Play in steering column One of my TR6s was used to SCCA club race in the eighties and nineties. >From all that pulling on the steering wheel, it has developed about < to = inch of in and out play (felt as movement at the steering wheel) where the column goes into the steering box. Not having been into the rack and pinion I'm not sure what is happening so I don't know if it is fixable, needs to be replaced, or if it can go quite a while before being replaced. The car is not on the street; I only autocross and race it. Thanks, Jim Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] coffeyjack at bfusa.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tony at tonydrews.com Sun Oct 14 09:26:56 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 10:26:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] motor oil query In-Reply-To: <20071013143848.ODKBZ.107222.root@fepweb14> References: <20071013143848.ODKBZ.107222.root@fepweb14> Message-ID: <20071014152722.9D42D1879CE@autox.team.net> This has come up a few times. There was a relatively recent drop in ZDDP levels in motor oil across the spectrum caused by an EPA ruling. (ZDDP being burned causes decreased cat converter life.) This additive is critical to valvetrain life (specifically tappets and camshafts) in flat tappet engines. There are a few motor oils that have acceptable levels on ZDDP - (Kendall is no longer one of them): Brad Penn Joe Gibbs Racing oil Redline Valvoline Racing oil ("not for street use") - I think this is the least expensive of the bunch, and I special ordered it from NAPA. There are two versions - nonsynthetic (I'd use for break in), and Synthetic (what I normally use) There are also a couple of oil additives that boost your ZDDP levels: STP Oil treatment in the Red bottle (use an entire bottle in an oil change) - I don't use this one GM's EOS (Engine Oil Supplement?) - this is really intended to be an assembly lubricant. I add a half a bottle in an 8 to 10 quart oil change. I also use it liberally on the cam and lifters during engine assembly. By the way, I run the break-in oil for one race weekend and then switch to the synthetic. - Tony Drews At 01:38 PM 10/13/2007, igofaster at charter.net wrote: >Heys guys,,, newbie to the forum...STILL appreciative of the >non-stop information. My GT6 is equipped with Kendall 50W motor oil >at the time. We've run three weekends now and wonder if we can run a >synthetic now. I haven't been able to locate the Kendall in Texas. >My parts guy is recommending Amsoil synthetic. What is the consensus >among our group.... Bullet Bob recommended a BRAD PENN motor oil of >which I'm having difficulties locating as well... am I just looking >in the wrong places? > >Kindest regards, >Bobby Whitehead >33 GT6+ >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >tony at tonydrews.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dos_gusanos at msn.com Tue Oct 9 22:43:48 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:43:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> References: <60C60298-D6F5-49E0-AD6C-CADFDA3605A0@earthlink.net> <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Man, a lot has been said here, as I see it the Kastner Cup stands on its own. If you love to get together with all the other Triumph Nuts, you should go. The playing field will never be level and the victory must exist in one's mind through your own participation. I finished last at the all Elva race, and was thrilled just to have overcome all the hurdles that stood in my way just to get the car together and get there. When I started vintage racing in 1986, I had the pleasure to share the track in my TR3 with real Cobras, Cunningham C4R's and lots of other cool cars. Now the prospects of racing with IT 240z refugees just doesn't hold the same appeal. (say that real fast) Our local club just "expanded eligibility" to 1980. As I read the rule change, it included cars like Honda Civic which was done purely out of the convenience that there are a couple in town that want to show up and race. This sounds like a true expansion rather than a continuation policy, I support niether. General Racing puts their events together fairly well pairing period prepared cars with other cars from their period. You would not see the Group 44 TR6 pass the Bolton-Rothschild TR4 at a General Racing event because they never shared the track with each other back in the day. Just check out the video that Kas forwarded the other day of the 1971 runoffs. First thing the announcer touts is that the amatuers are gone and this race will be among professionals. Then it looks like a Spec 240Z race except for the TR6 hanging in there. These cars are a whole different breed from cars 6 or 7 years earlier that were still racing on wire wheels, maybe even being street driven. The future of Vintage Racing from my point of view is rather bleak as the prices of cars from the vintage period increase, and folks who remember the Vintage Period for what it was die off. Organizers of current vintage events who have strayed from the pre '67 formula are desperately trying to fill their grids with cars from the seventies, the period where amatuer road racing died, and finding there is little more enthusiasm for these Nerd Cars now, as there was back then. Some clubs that have stuck with a hard line on the Vintage cutoff dates, like CSRG, appear to be still doing well and I hope to participate with all their cool 50's and 60's cars next year. OBEY THE '67 GCR!!!!!!! Cheers, Henry Morrison Albuquerque, NM By the way, anybody going to Vegas? > To: fot at autox.team.net> From: lunkercars at earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 22:13:16 -0600> Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008> > Begin forwarded message:> > > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM MDT> > To: FOT > > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008> >> >>> >> FoTers,> >> I think Henry Morrison will be as surprised as I, to find myself > >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this discussion > >> several times before. However... Personally, I encourage expanded > >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for bigger grids. > >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a earlier > >> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR.> >> Regarding your car Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high > >> level of preparation, wouldn't it be more concise to list what it > >> DID leave the factory with? To me " All original steel panels > >> except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door, all 4 wings and > >> hardtop " is like saying " all original car except for body, > >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know what GRP is > >> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the > >> rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of > >> the art [which your car sounds to be] - not> >> "an act or scheme to out whit or deceive" {Webster}> >> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on > >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no disrespect aimed at > >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I > >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there > >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual > >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a > >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason.> >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules > >> read:> >>> >> Engine:> >>> >> Same type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit).> >> Period correct roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. > >> Compression Ratio is limited to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be > >> documented as higher from the factory as delivered for street > >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and period correct. No aluminum > >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless originally sold as > >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free but must not conflict > >> with stock type appearance of body.> >>> >>> >> Carburetion:> >> Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi > >> count). No Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped.> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> ---------------------> >>> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in compliance with the > >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host club] is even more strict > >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 was [as graciously > >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an inch of it's > >> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group > >> [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I > >> doubt if Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - > >> not really fair to the others.> >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how my Vintage prepped > >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans to attend > >> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain!> >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer> >> TR4 #314> >> Albuquerque N.M.> _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From britcars at bellsouth.net Tue Oct 9 15:27:42 2007 From: britcars at bellsouth.net (barry rosenberg) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 17:27:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Vandervell bearings on ebay Message-ID: Since I sold my TR4 race car and am quitting the British car business, I no longer need a lot of the stuff I have. I have put some items on ebay, some of which are Vandervell bearings for Triumphs. These are the good older bearings in original boxes. I have had then for at least 25 years now. This sale will surely be regretted in the future if I ever want to build another hot TR, but a new house is still underway. I will be constantly adding items thru out the next few months. Thanks. From keithfiles at btinternet.com Sun Oct 14 11:10:39 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:10:39 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <000a01c80a01$887a2350$41e3efdc@co3017577a> Message-ID: <20071014171118.4F0141879CE@autox.team.net> Hi Geoff, Thanks for the info. I was hoping that, as part of my retirement in a 5 years time, to do a bit of a tour with the TR6 and Oz was on my list of places to visit especially Phillip Island and Bathurst. I guess that I will need to re-consider; would my US TR4 built to the US vintage regulations be acceptable? Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: Geoffrey Byrne [mailto:gkbyrne at optushome.com.au] Sent: 09 October 2007 00:18 To: Keith Files; 'Kas Kastner'; 'Mike Munson'; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Friends Just to add an international perspective for interest , Keiths car would not get an Historic Log Book in Australia . Our Historic cars have to be OEM with very little mods ie plus one inch wider wheels Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Files" To: "'Kas Kastner'" ; "'Mike Munson'" ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 3:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > HI everybody, > > Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on the > cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion > either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when > compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the > Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver TR6 > placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won outright > at VIR in 2004. > > My TR6 has: > > Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 pistons > (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, > Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 DCOE > Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, luminiton > ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic RaceCraft > for the princely sum of c $20k. > > Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, > Quartermaster clutch. > > Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on > circuit). > > Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where > terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. > > Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot > callipers (these do make a big difference). > > Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door > and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs > less than a standard road car. > > Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. > > The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by > Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. > > The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as > well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then > Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) by > a country mile. > > At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a > Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over > here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well > driven spitfires. > > As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over in > 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am > going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over > youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys just > to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are > available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are > some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). > > As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. > > Cheers, Keith. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Kas Kastner > Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 > To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; > ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; > sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Munson" > To: ; ; ; > ; ; ; > ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > > 1900 > > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > > higher level than what SCCA does. > > > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > > > Mike Munson > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > > run > > > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > > standards. > > > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > > championship > > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > > > Jack Woehrle > > SVRA Technical Director > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > kaskas at cox.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > keithfiles at btinternet.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gkbyrne at optushome.com.au > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From keithfiles at btinternet.com Sun Oct 14 11:16:47 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:16:47 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710080948q5a046676kabb4a7e1a12da23a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071014171726.858EF1879F2@autox.team.net> Hi Chuck, The springs are 650 lbs all round; I will have to take a front and rear out to give you lengths. I use both a front and rear sway bar and both were designed and built by Jon Wood of Classic RaceCraft and are > in diameter. Cheers, Keith _____ From: Chuck Arnold [mailto:triosan at gmail.com] Sent: 08 October 2007 17:49 To: Keith Files Cc: Kas Kastner; Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Do, in SOVERN, the following would be illegal: +60 pistons [40=max] Any Webers [PI or two Strombergs only allowed] Roller rockers Maybe the tranny case Rear Konis [must use levers] Wilwood vented rotors Glass panels [any] So, what rate springs do you use [ponds/inch if possible] and what are their free lengths? Do you use a rear sway bar? Thanks. Hope to meet and race with you guys some time. Chuck Arnold On 10/6/07, Keith Files wrote: HI everybody, Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on the cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver TR6 placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won outright at VIR in 2004. My TR6 has: Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 pistons (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 DCOE Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, luminiton ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic RaceCraft for the princely sum of c $20k. Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, Quartermaster clutch. Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on circuit). Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot callipers (these do make a big difference). Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs less than a standard road car. Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) by a country mile. At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well driven spitfires. As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over in 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys just to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles= btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kas Kastner Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Munson" To: < JWoesvra at aol.com >; ; ; >; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > 1900 > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > higher level than what SCCA does. > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > Mike Munson > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > run > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > standards. > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > championship > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot triosan at gmail.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -- Chuck Arnold From tr5racer at btinternet.com Sun Oct 14 14:50:12 2007 From: tr5racer at btinternet.com (JOSEPH HUGHES) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 21:50:12 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Fot] 60th Anniversary race 2012 Message-ID: <748731.84979.qm@web86607.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Although it is still nearly 5 years away, I too intend bringing my TR5 over to race in 2012 at the 60th Anniversary race. I came over in 2002 and co-drove a TR7V8 in the 2 driver race but this time I will bring my own TR5 which by then will be in its 35th year of racing(same as the driver)! I have the distinction of having raced TR's longer than anyone else in the UK . First race was at Silverstone in 1977. However I am probably well short of some of the US drivers like Bill Dentinger and Dick Stockton! I had a brief drive in Keiths TR4 at Road America this year before the throttle cable snapped and had a great time again just as in 2002. Roll on 2012! Regards Mike Hughes --------------------------------- For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month. From igofaster at charter.net Sun Oct 14 14:58:45 2007 From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:58:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? Message-ID: <20071014165845.RFJT1.38126.root@fepweb09> The GT6+ #33 CVAR has a shift light at 5500 rpm and a rev limiter at 6000 rpm. I'm not running the crap out of it on a weekend outting. Are these superior motor oils we use designed to last more than a weekend? Is it retentive to change the oil after such use in one weekend, or can I run 3,4, 5 or more events in synthetic? Bobby Whitehead 1970 GT6+ #33 CVAR From tlizzard at msn.com Sun Oct 14 15:03:07 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 17:03:07 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? References: <20071014165845.RFJT1.38126.root@fepweb09> Message-ID: Oil is cheap. Change it often. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: igofaster at charter.net To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:58 PM Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? The GT6+ #33 CVAR has a shift light at 5500 rpm and a rev limiter at 6000 rpm. I'm not running the crap out of it on a weekend outting. Are these superior motor oils we use designed to last more than a weekend? Is it retentive to change the oil after such use in one weekend, or can I run 3,4, 5 or more events in synthetic? Bobby Whitehead 1970 GT6+ #33 CVAR _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Sun Oct 14 15:16:02 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 17:16:02 EDT Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/14/2007 5:03:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tlizzard at msn.com writes: Oil is cheap. Change it often. Terry Stetler what he said... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From fpspitfire at insightbb.com Sun Oct 14 15:55:52 2007 From: fpspitfire at insightbb.com (fpspitfire at insightbb.com) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 16:55:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? In-Reply-To: References: <20071014165845.RFJT1.38126.root@fepweb09> Message-ID: If you use cheap oil change it every weekend. With the redline I change it after every second or third event. aaron ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Stetler Date: Sunday, October 14, 2007 16:03 Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? To: fot at autox.team.net, igofaster at charter.net > Oil is cheap. > > Change it often. > > Terry Stetler > ----- Original Message ----- > From: igofaster at charter.net > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:58 PM > Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? > > > The GT6+ #33 CVAR has a shift light at 5500 rpm and a rev > limiter at 6000 > rpm. I'm not running the crap out of it on a weekend outting. > Are these superior motor oils we use designed to last > more than a weekend? > Is it retentive to change the oil after such use in one weekend, > or can I run > 3,4, 5 or more events in synthetic? > > Bobby Whitehead > 1970 GT6+ #33 CVAR > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > tlizzard at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > fpspitfire at insightbb.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From hottr6 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 14 18:19:04 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 20:19:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: Christian Marx wrote: >It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing car >on >its own wheels to the track....[snip] I too am another one who insists on driving the car to, AND from the track. Blame it on my upbringing; my Dad raced at Phillip Island and Bathurst. He drove the MG to the track, emptied the car and pulled off the plates, went racing and if the car survived, piled all the junk back in and drove home. If not, repaired the car at the track. The only mods to the car was a rollbar and a lap belt. The Bathurst 500 was done on the same set of tires. I navigated for my cousin who rallied a twin-cam Escort. Again a drive/to from the forest. I carried on this tradition when I raced bikes in the 70s, and the Pantera in the 90s. So it goes with Rags. Besides, I cannot afford a trailer and truck. This hobby is expensive enough as it is. :( Shane Ingate in NM. _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Cafi. Stop by today! http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 14 18:57:14 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 17:57:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> One of the guys out here in Arizona will use the Department of Motor Vehicle website to obtain a temporary license tag for his race prepared Porsche 911 on race weekends. The tag is good for three days (weekends and Holidays don't count toward the expiration time!) and costs $1.00. Tapes the permit that he prints out to his rear window and off he heads to the track. At 05:19 PM 10/14/2007, Shane Ingate wrote: >Christian Marx wrote: > > >It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing car > >on > >its own wheels to the track....[snip] > >I too am another one who insists on driving the car to, AND from the track. >Blame it on my upbringing; my Dad raced at Phillip Island and Bathurst. >He drove the MG to the track, emptied the car and pulled off the plates, >went >racing and if the car survived, piled all the junk back in and drove home. >If not, repaired the car at the track. > >The only mods to the car was a rollbar and a lap belt. The Bathurst 500 >was done on the same set of tires. > >I navigated for my cousin who rallied a twin-cam Escort. Again a drive/to >from the forest. > >I carried on this tradition when I raced bikes in the 70s, and the Pantera >in >the 90s. So it goes with Rags. > >Besides, I cannot afford a trailer and truck. This hobby is expensive >enough as it is. :( > >Shane Ingate in NM. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Cafi. Stop by >today! >http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >dave at microworks.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From koblinger at verizon.net Sun Oct 14 19:39:21 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:39:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> Driving race cars to the track was quite common in the old days, even F1 cars. http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/9475/60trintingnant9dd.jpg Some of you So. Cal. folks will recognize that piece of road as the stretch of 60 freeway just before the Day St. offramp that took you to Riverside Raceway. It's 1960 and that is Maurice Trintignant in his Cooper F1 on the way to the 1960 USGP. The teams used garages in the town of Riverside because there was nothing yet built at the track. Similar scenes could be seen around Le Mans and Monaco as those tracks had no real garage facilities in the old days. Cheers, Kurt Oblinger David W. Riddle wrote: >One of the guys out here in Arizona will use the Department of Motor >Vehicle website to obtain a temporary license tag for his race >prepared Porsche 911 on race weekends. The tag is good for three >days (weekends and Holidays don't count toward the expiration time!) >and costs $1.00. > >Tapes the permit that he prints out to his rear window and off he >heads to the track. > >At 05:19 PM 10/14/2007, Shane Ingate wrote: > > >>Christian Marx wrote: >> >> >> >>>It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing car >>>on >>>its own wheels to the track....[snip] >>> >>> >>I too am another one who insists on driving the car to, AND from the track. >>Blame it on my upbringing; my Dad raced at Phillip Island and Bathurst. >>He drove the MG to the track, emptied the car and pulled off the plates, >>went >>racing and if the car survived, piled all the junk back in and drove home. >>If not, repaired the car at the track. >> >>The only mods to the car was a rollbar and a lap belt. The Bathurst 500 >>was done on the same set of tires. >> >>I navigated for my cousin who rallied a twin-cam Escort. Again a drive/to >> >> >>from the forest. > > >>I carried on this tradition when I raced bikes in the 70s, and the Pantera >>in >>the 90s. So it goes with Rags. >> >>Besides, I cannot afford a trailer and truck. This hobby is expensive >>enough as it is. :( >> >>Shane Ingate in NM. >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Cafi. Stop by >>today! >>http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Sun Oct 14 19:55:23 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 21:55:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? References: <20071014165845.RFJT1.38126.root@fepweb09> Message-ID: <002701c80ece$734717f0$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> Keep running Kendall or what ever it is called now. It has all the good race engine stuff stuff. Syn is okay but if leaks bother you than syn will find a place to leak out. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:58 PM Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? > The GT6+ #33 CVAR has a shift light at 5500 rpm and a rev limiter at 6000 > rpm. I'm not running the crap out of it on a weekend outting. > Are these superior motor oils we use designed to last more than a weekend? > Is it retentive to change the oil after such use in one weekend, or can I > run 3,4, 5 or more events in synthetic? > > Bobby Whitehead > 1970 GT6+ #33 CVAR > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billbab at mac.com Sun Oct 14 20:14:23 2007 From: billbab at mac.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:14:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> Message-ID: <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> First one bounced--too big. Hey Mark, isn't 4K a bit too restrictive? On Oct 14, 2007, at 7:12 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I recognize the stretch of road. It's right before the main > entrance. Hard to believe that god-forsaken area is strip malls and > tract houses now. Last year I was up in Gorman where we used to > ride our dirt bikes for miles and miles all day long, and I > couldn't recognize anything. Solid houses as far as you can see. > > I drove my dirt bike (a 1976 Yamaha 360MX) from Belmont Shores to > the track several times to race in the Riverside Grand Prix. I had > a tail light, a fake headlight and the license plate from my street > bike. If I got stopped I doubt I would have been able to convince a > cop it was a 1972 BMW R50/5 I didn't have a car at the time. In > 1977 I seized the top end in practice, fixed it in the paddock > (freed the rings, sanded the scuff marks off the piston and got the > aluminum out of the bore with battery acid) put it all back > together and finished third. Seized again on the way home. Fixed it > again next to the road. Made it home. > > Thank God those days are over, though I wouldn't mind having that > energy level and absurd determination again. The next year I had a > real truck--I made it from a VW Squareback wagon. Cut the back end > off right behind the seats and made a flatbed out of it--we called > it "the yellow peril" which my chinese friend Barney greatly > appreciated. It was only marginally more reliable than the 360MX. > Had to take the whole bed off to change the oil. Didn't do that > very often. > > I'm building an Ambro, and I intend to street license it, expressly > so I can drive it to the track and race. > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:39 PM, Kurt Oblinger wrote: > >> Driving race cars to the track was quite common in the old days, >> even F1 >> cars. >> http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/9475/60trintingnant9dd.jpg >> >> Some of you So. Cal. folks will recognize that piece of road as the >> stretch of 60 freeway just before the Day St. offramp that took >> you to >> Riverside Raceway. It's 1960 and that is Maurice Trintignant in his >> Cooper F1 on the way to the 1960 USGP. The teams used garages in the >> town of Riverside because there was nothing yet built at the track. >> Similar scenes could be seen around Le Mans and Monaco as those >> tracks >> had no real garage facilities in the old days. From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 14 20:20:23 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:20:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> Message-ID: <839FC7BA-61F1-4D3E-954B-4FFC503F70A1@bnj.com> Incidentally, I still have BOTH bikes. Solid proof that I'm not a collector--I just can't stand to sell my motorcycles, though I'm nowhere nearly as attached to my modern bikes. On Oct 14, 2007, at 7:14 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > First one bounced--too big. Hey Mark, isn't 4K a bit too restrictive? > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 7:12 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> I recognize the stretch of road. It's right before the main >> entrance. Hard to believe that god-forsaken area is strip malls >> and tract houses now. Last year I was up in Gorman where we used >> to ride our dirt bikes for miles and miles all day long, and I >> couldn't recognize anything. Solid houses as far as you can see. >> >> I drove my dirt bike (a 1976 Yamaha 360MX) from Belmont Shores to >> the track several times to race in the Riverside Grand Prix. I had >> a tail light, a fake headlight and the license plate from my >> street bike. If I got stopped I doubt I would have been able to >> convince a cop it was a 1972 BMW R50/5 I didn't have a car at the >> time. In 1977 I seized the top end in practice, fixed it in the >> paddock (freed the rings, sanded the scuff marks off the piston >> and got the aluminum out of the bore with battery acid) put it all >> back together and finished second or third. Seized again on the >> way home. Fixed it again next to the road. Made it home. >> >> Thank God those days are over, though I wouldn't mind having that >> energy level and absurd determination again. The next year I had a >> real truck--I made it from a VW Squareback wagon. Cut the back end >> off right behind the seats and made a flatbed out of it--we called >> it "the yellow peril" which my chinese friend Barney greatly >> appreciated. It was only marginally more reliable than the 360MX. >> Had to take the whole bed off to change the oil. Didn't do that >> very often. >> >> I'm building an Ambro, and I intend to street license it, >> expressly so I can drive it to the track and race. >> >> On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:39 PM, Kurt Oblinger wrote: >> >>> Driving race cars to the track was quite common in the old days, >>> even F1 >>> cars. >>> http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/9475/60trintingnant9dd.jpg >>> >>> Some of you So. Cal. folks will recognize that piece of road as the >>> stretch of 60 freeway just before the Day St. offramp that took >>> you to >>> Riverside Raceway. It's 1960 and that is Maurice Trintignant in his >>> Cooper F1 on the way to the 1960 USGP. The teams used garages in the >>> town of Riverside because there was nothing yet built at the track. >>> Similar scenes could be seen around Le Mans and Monaco as those >>> tracks >>> had no real garage facilities in the old days. From cak at dimebank.com Sun Oct 14 20:29:20 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: <200710150229.l9F2TK7b003835@moose.dimebank.com> It was certainly de rigeur "back in the day" - no transporters for the factory teams, especially the sports car drivers. My work desk has a print of this: http://www.klemcoll.com/image/57C1B-9A.aspx?page= The caption that Klementaski put on it was "at 180 mph on the way to Brescia for the Mille Miglia, the wind almost tore my arm out of its socket while taking this photo". Hard to fathom, actually. From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 14 11:38:15 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 10:38:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: <60C60298-D6F5-49E0-AD6C-CADFDA3605A0@earthlink.net> <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Well said. I'd like to forward this to the general email list of SOVREN, since we're going through some of the same issues. I initially came down in favor of changing our eligibility to 1972, but I've been convinced by this and other arguments that remaining with 1968 is the right thing to do. On Oct 9, 2007, at 9:43 PM, wrote: > Man, a lot has been said here, as I see it the Kastner Cup > stands on its > own. If you love to get together with all the other Triumph Nuts, > you should > go. The playing field will never be level and the victory must > exist in one's > mind through your own participation. I finished last at the all > Elva race, > and was thrilled just to have overcome all the hurdles that stood > in my way > just to get the car together and get there. > When I started vintage racing in 1986, I had the pleasure to > share the > track in my TR3 with real Cobras, Cunningham C4R's and lots of > other cool > cars. Now the prospects of racing with IT 240z refugees just > doesn't hold the > same appeal. (say that real fast) Our local club just "expanded > eligibility" > to 1980. As I read the rule change, it included cars like Honda > Civic which > was done purely out of the convenience that there are a couple in > town that > want to show up and race. This sounds like a true expansion rather > than a > continuation policy, I support niether. > General Racing puts their events together fairly well pairing > period > prepared cars with other cars from their period. You would not see > the Group > 44 TR6 pass the Bolton-Rothschild TR4 at a General Racing event > because they > never shared the track with each other back in the day. Just check > out the > video that Kas forwarded the other day of the 1971 runoffs. First > thing the > announcer touts is that the amatuers are gone and this race will be > among > professionals. Then it looks like a Spec 240Z race except for the > TR6 hanging > in there. These cars are a whole different breed from cars 6 or 7 > years > earlier that were still racing on wire wheels, maybe even being > street driven. > The future of Vintage Racing from my point of view is rather > bleak as the > prices of cars from the vintage period increase, and folks who > remember the > Vintage Period for what it was die off. Organizers of current > vintage events > who have strayed from the pre '67 formula are desperately trying to > fill their > grids with cars from the seventies, the period where amatuer road > racing died, > and finding there is little more enthusiasm for these Nerd Cars > now, as there > was back then. Some clubs that have stuck with a hard line on the > Vintage > cutoff dates, like CSRG, appear to be still doing well and I hope to > participate with all their cool 50's and 60's cars next year. > > OBEY THE '67 GCR!!!!!!! > > Cheers, > Henry Morrison > Albuquerque, NM > > By the way, anybody going to Vegas? > > >> To: fot at autox.team.net> From: lunkercars at earthlink.net> Date: Mon, >> 8 Oct > 2007 22:13:16 -0600> Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS > GLEN 2008> >> Begin forwarded message:> > > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > > > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM > MDT> > To: FOT > > > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - > WATKINS GLEN > 2008> >> >>> >> FoTers,> >> I think Henry Morrison will be as > surprised as I, > to find myself > >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this > discussion > >> several times before. However... Personally, I > encourage > expanded > >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for > bigger > grids. > >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a > earlier > >>> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR.> >> Regarding >>> your car > Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high > >> level of > preparation, > wouldn't it be more concise to list what it > >> DID leave the > factory with? > To me " All original steel panels > >> except for GRP hood, trunk > lid, drivers > door, all 4 wings and > >> hardtop " is like saying " all original > car except > for body, > >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know > what GRP is >>>> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the >>>> > >> > rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of > >> > the art > [which your car sounds to be] - not> >> "an act or scheme to out > whit or > deceive" {Webster}> >> I guess I don't really understand what the > Kastner Cup > is based on > >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no > disrespect aimed at >>>> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I > >> >>>> actually > removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there > >> would > be no > question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual > >> Webers > were and > are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a > >> welder but > won't use it to > "improve" my diff for the same reason.> >> Most of the cars I raced > with in > Utah were from VARA who's rules > >> read:> >>> >> Engine:> >>> >> > Same > type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit).> >> > Period correct > roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. > >> Compression Ratio > is limited > to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be > >> documented as higher from > the factory > as delivered for street > >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and > period > correct. No aluminum > >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless > originally sold as > >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free > but must not > conflict > >> with stock type appearance of body.> >>> >>> >> > Carburetion:> >> > Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi > >> > count). No > Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped.> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > ---------------------> >>> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in > compliance with the > >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host > club] is even > more strict > >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 > was [as > graciously > >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an > inch of it's >>>> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group >>>> > >> > [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I > >> > doubt if > Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - > >> not > really fair > to the others.> >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how > my Vintage > prepped > >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans > to attend >>>> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain!> >>>> >> Greg > "Lunker" Hilyer> >> TR4 #314> >> Albuquerque N.M.> > _______________________________________________> > http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing > list> > Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From keithfiles at btinternet.com Sun Oct 14 12:05:58 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:05:58 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20071014180636.7C2F3187B01@autox.team.net> Hi Greg, Happy to try to address the question of what it did leave the factory with in terms of body, chassis and transmission. The inner body tub has to be original in all respects i.e. all inner panels and bulkheads are standard (although there are some who replace the mild steel with aluminium but I do not) with a number of outer panels in glass fibre (light weight but not by much as the overall reduction in weight is minor 930 kgs as opposed to a street car of 1024 kgs.). No changes to the original silhouette are allowed. The use of glass fibre is preferred as the panels are easy and cheap to replace. The chassis is standard Triumph with all original suspension pick-up points (The rear trailing arms are standard Triumph as is all of the front suspension bar the springs and shocks). The engine block and head must be original and must be in their original location. The gearbox must use a Triumph casing; we use the Stag one as it is stronger but not lighter. The differential case is standard Triumph. Hope this helps. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg "Lunker" Hilyer Sent: 09 October 2007 05:13 To: FOT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Begin forwarded message: > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM MDT > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > >> >> FoTers, >> I think Henry Morrison will be as surprised as I, to find myself >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this discussion >> several times before. However... Personally, I encourage expanded >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for bigger grids. >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a earlier >> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR. >> Regarding your car Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high >> level of preparation, wouldn't it be more concise to list what it >> DID leave the factory with? To me " All original steel panels >> except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door, all 4 wings and >> hardtop " is like saying " all original car except for body, >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know what GRP is >> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the >> rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of >> the art [which your car sounds to be] - not >> "an act or scheme to out whit or deceive" {Webster} >> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no disrespect aimed at >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason. >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules >> read: >> >> Engine: >> >> Same type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit). >> Period correct roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. >> Compression Ratio is limited to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be >> documented as higher from the factory as delivered for street >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and period correct. No aluminum >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless originally sold as >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free but must not conflict >> with stock type appearance of body. >> >> >> Carburetion: >> Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi >> count). No Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped. >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------- >> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in compliance with the >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host club] is even more strict >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 was [as graciously >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an inch of it's >> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group >> [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I >> doubt if Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - >> not really fair to the others. >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how my Vintage prepped >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans to attend >> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain! >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 14 20:12:33 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:12:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> Message-ID: <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> I recognize the stretch of road. It's right before the main entrance. Hard to believe that god-forsaken area is strip malls and tract houses now. Last year I was up in Gorman where we used to ride our dirt bikes for miles and miles all day long, and I couldn't recognize anything. Solid houses as far as you can see. I drove my dirt bike (a 1976 Yamaha 360MX) from Belmont Shores to the track several times to race in the Riverside Grand Prix. I had a tail light, a fake headlight and the license plate from my street bike. If I got stopped I doubt I would have been able to convince a cop it was a 1972 BMW R50/5 I didn't have a car at the time. In 1977 I seized the top end in practice, fixed it in the paddock (freed the rings, sanded the scuff marks off the piston and got the aluminum out of the bore with battery acid) put it all back together and finished third. Seized again on the way home. Fixed it again next to the road. Made it home. Thank God those days are over, though I wouldn't mind having that energy level and absurd determination again. The next year I had a real truck--I made it from a VW Squareback wagon. Cut the back end off right behind the seats and made a flatbed out of it--we called it "the yellow peril" which my chinese friend Barney greatly appreciated. It was only marginally more reliable than the 360MX. Had to take the whole bed off to change the oil. Didn't do that very often. I'm building an Ambro, and I intend to street license it, expressly so I can drive it to the track and race. On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:39 PM, Kurt Oblinger wrote: > Driving race cars to the track was quite common in the old days, > even F1 > cars. > http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/9475/60trintingnant9dd.jpg > > Some of you So. Cal. folks will recognize that piece of road as the > stretch of 60 freeway just before the Day St. offramp that took you to > Riverside Raceway. It's 1960 and that is Maurice Trintignant in his > Cooper F1 on the way to the 1960 USGP. The teams used garages in the > town of Riverside because there was nothing yet built at the track. > Similar scenes could be seen around Le Mans and Monaco as those tracks > had no real garage facilities in the old days. > > Cheers, > Kurt Oblinger > > David W. Riddle wrote: > >> One of the guys out here in Arizona will use the Department of Motor >> Vehicle website to obtain a temporary license tag for his race >> prepared Porsche 911 on race weekends. The tag is good for three >> days (weekends and Holidays don't count toward the expiration time!) >> and costs $1.00. >> >> Tapes the permit that he prints out to his rear window and off he >> heads to the track. >> >> At 05:19 PM 10/14/2007, Shane Ingate wrote: >> >> >>> Christian Marx wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive >>>> racing car >>>> on >>>> its own wheels to the track....[snip] >>>> >>>> >>> I too am another one who insists on driving the car to, AND from >>> the track. >>> Blame it on my upbringing; my Dad raced at Phillip Island and >>> Bathurst. >>> He drove the MG to the track, emptied the car and pulled off the >>> plates, >>> went >>> racing and if the car survived, piled all the junk back in and >>> drove home. >>> If not, repaired the car at the track. >>> >>> The only mods to the car was a rollbar and a lap belt. The >>> Bathurst 500 >>> was done on the same set of tires. >>> >>> I navigated for my cousin who rallied a twin-cam Escort. Again a >>> drive/to >>> >>> >>> from the forest. >> >> >>> I carried on this tradition when I raced bikes in the 70s, and >>> the Pantera >>> in >>> the 90s. So it goes with Rags. >>> >>> Besides, I cannot afford a trailer and truck. This hobby is >>> expensive >>> enough as it is. :( >>> >>> Shane Ingate in NM. >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger >>> Cafi. Stop by >>> today! >>> http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html? >>> ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> dave at microworks.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> koblinger at verizon.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From koblinger at verizon.net Sun Oct 14 20:47:11 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:47:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> Message-ID: <4712D4AF.7000907@verizon.net> Bill Babcock wrote: >> I'm building an Ambro, and I intend to street license it, expressly >> so I can drive it to the track and race. > I plan to do the same with a vintage Devin body I've had for about, oh, 20 years. Cheers, Kurt O. From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sun Oct 14 21:00:34 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:00:34 EDT Subject: [Fot] motor oil query Message-ID: Hi Bobby, Re your posting below: I did a soild 4 months of research into this subject Jan-April 2007, and there is a vast amount of information, and mis-information on the subject of oils on the internet. Quite frankly, I believe aonly about 10% of what I have read on the subject. The absolute best information may be found here: http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html Be sure to check out this link on that page: For a listing of oils tested, click here. I will shortly be changing from Valvoline Synpower (SL) to Amsoil Series 2000 Racing (Synthetic) 20w50 Nuff said! Best Regards, and good luck! Lion F Guyot 1963-1971 Triumph Vitesse Mk.2 Convertible - exact same engine as your GT6+ Original posting follows: Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:38:48 -0700 From: Subject: [Fot] motor oil query To: fot at autox.team.net Heys guys,,, newbie to the forum...STILL appreciative of the non-stop information. My GT6 is equipped with Kendall 50W motor oil at the time. We've run three weekends now and wonder if we can run a synthetic now. I haven't been able to locate the Kendall in Texas. My parts guy is recommending Amsoil synthetic. What is the consensus among our group.... Bullet Bob recommended a BRAD PENN motor oil of which I'm having difficulties locating as well... am I just looking in the wrong places? Kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead 33 GT6+ From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Sun Oct 14 21:13:36 2007 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:13:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20071014221336.y4qjz1apk0k4oos0@secure.uwalumni.com> Kurt Oblinger wrote: > Driving race cars to the track was quite common > in the old days, even F1 cars. > http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/9475/60trintingnant9dd.jpg > > Some of you So. Cal. folks will recognize that piece > of road as the stretch of 60 freeway just before the > Day St. offramp that took you to Riverside Raceway. It's been decades since I lived in SoCal, but I remember that stretch of road VERY well since I was at UC-Riverside at the time and went to virtually all the races during those 4+ years. > The teams used garages in the town of Riverside... As did the teams entered in the annual LA Times GP for sports cars. For a couple of years I worked at a foreign car repair/accessories shop on University Avenue where we put up two or three team cars every year. A highlight of those weekends was watching the drivers compete on the shop's slot car track (built as a miniature replica of the Riverside track, of course). And when I started racing my TR-4 in '63, I drove it to the Raceway as well. Who needs a trailer for a five-mile trip -- and what's more fun than driving a race car on the street? Jim Hill From John.Reed at wilson.com Mon Oct 15 07:05:39 2007 From: John.Reed at wilson.com (John.Reed at wilson.com) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 06:05:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <5B2AF419-4D62-4416-AAF6-A64CE71D9564@bnj.com> Message-ID: Last year George Stouffer drove his priceless Ford GT40 to the Botham Vineyard antique car show. Wish I could have seen and heard that. Regards, John Reed Staff Photographer Wilson Sporting Goods Co. 8750 W Bryn Mawr Ave, Chicago, Illinois 60631, USA Tel. + 1.773.714.6895, fax +1.773.714.4585 John.Reed at wilson.com www.wilson.com www.amersports.com Please note that effective immediately, my e-mail , phone number and street address have changed. Please update your files accordingly. Bill Babcock Sent by: fot-bounces+john.reed=wilson.com at autox.team.net 10/13/07 02:53 PM To "Marx Christian tr4-racing" cc fot at autox.team.net Subject Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car I wonder if it's a real one--I looked at the replica 917 that's been for sale on ebay--It was at Road America as I recall. Very nicely done, RSR motor, lot's a trick stuff. It would be fun to drive it on the road, and the price was reasonable. I nearly bought it, but sanity overtook me. Besides, what I really want is a Lola T70 for the street. On Oct 13, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive > racing car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot john.reed at wilson.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. From wgrosenbach at juno.com Mon Oct 15 07:26:23 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:26:23 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: <20071015.072624.2468.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Driving your racecar to the track gives you a different mind set at the event, you can break your ride home. Trailering gives more peace of mind, knowing if you break it, you can still get home. I generally drove my car to vintage races. Once in a snow storm with no heat or wipers. Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has a member who last year celebrated his 100th RMVR event as a driver. Bill Miller drives his almost original, stock, as delivered, Shelby GT-350 H to & from events. Packs everything he needs for the weekend in it, including Gerry Cans of fuel. This summer, he drove it from Denver to Miller MSP in Utah. He ONLY runs it on race fuel, so no just stopping at the Mini-Mart. That 100 events does NOT include the about half again that many other events & track days he & his steed have participated in. I believe he has been towed home twice, in all that time. Chek Beuf, an original owner of an original 427 Cobra, used to drive it, on race slicks, to the track. We had several appearances by a TR-3 which pulled a trailer with its race tyres & support materials. Original owner of an original Porsche 912 (looking like it just came off the showroom floor), has been driving to & from the track for years now. My car broke in Steamboat one year, Clive Averill loaded my car on his trailer and I drove his GT-6 back to Denver (you cannot believe how good that 2 litre six sounds at full chat, with no muffler, in the Johnson tunnel!). RMVR has an Historic Group, that encourages entries that are more what the factory produced, not what can be built from the catalogs. We have the Danny Colins Cup award, for that group. Points are awarded for driving To & From the track. If the point of the exercise is to recreate, reenact, racing from earlier years, we would drive to & from the track, time with analog stop watches. Like that's going to happen. Bill 70 GT-6+ On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 "Marx Christian tr4-racing" writes: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing > car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Mon Oct 15 07:38:46 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:38:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? References: <20071014165845.RFJT1.38126.root@fepweb09> Message-ID: <002d01c80f30$b5f72920$0200a8c0@Desktop> What's cheaper oil or new motor Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:58 PM Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? > The GT6+ #33 CVAR has a shift light at 5500 rpm and a rev limiter at 6000 > rpm. I'm not running the crap out of it on a weekend outting. > Are these superior motor oils we use designed to last more than a weekend? > Is it retentive to change the oil after such use in one weekend, or can I > run 3,4, 5 or more events in synthetic? > > Bobby Whitehead > 1970 GT6+ #33 CVAR > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 15 08:05:09 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:05:09 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: <561BBBA6.62ABE6CF.00159EE9@cs.com> FoT Richard Taylor currently & totally redefines DRIVING TO THE TRACK. TR4 #196 with trailer hitch & trailer with racewheels and motorcycle. >Driving your racecar to the track gives you a different mind set at the >event, you can break your ride home. Trailering gives more peace of mind, >knowing if you break it, you can still get home. I generally drove my car >to vintage races. Once in a snow storm with no heat or wipers. > >Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has a member who last year celebrated his >100th RMVR event as a driver. Bill Miller drives his almost original, >stock, as delivered, Shelby GT-350 H to & from events. Packs everything >he needs for the weekend in it, including Gerry Cans of fuel. This >summer, he drove it from Denver to Miller MSP in Utah. He ONLY runs it on >race fuel, so no just stopping at the Mini-Mart. That 100 events does NOT >include the about half again that many other events & track days he & his >steed have participated in. I believe he has been towed home twice, in >all that time. > >Chek Beuf, an original owner of an original 427 Cobra, used to drive it, >on race slicks, to the track. >We had several appearances by a TR-3 which pulled a trailer with its race >tyres & support materials. >Original owner of an original Porsche 912 (looking like it just came off >the showroom floor), has been driving to & from the track for years now. >My car broke in Steamboat one year, Clive Averill loaded my car on his >trailer and I drove his GT-6 back to Denver (you cannot believe how good >that 2 litre six sounds at full chat, with no muffler, in the Johnson >tunnel!). > >RMVR has an Historic Group, that encourages entries that are more what >the factory produced, not what can be built from the catalogs. We have >the Danny Colins Cup award, for that group. Points are awarded for >driving To & From the track. > >If the point of the exercise is to recreate, reenact, racing from earlier >years, we would drive to & from the track, time with analog stop watches. >Like that's going to happen. > >Bill >70 GT-6+ > >On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 "Marx Christian tr4-racing" > writes: >> It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing >> car on >> its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some >> bucks more to >> spend... >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> wgrosenbach at juno.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >n197tr4 at cs.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 15 08:24:56 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:24:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] Ed Diehl to be FoT Honored Guest at Watkins Glen - Kastner Cup 2008 Message-ID: FoT List....it gives me great pleasure to announce that Ed Diehl will be joining us at Watkins Glen in 2008. Ed raced one of the 12 Hours of Sebring TR4s for Kas Kastner. Ed is proud of his race beginings with the Triumph TR3 and remains active in Road Racing....see short bio below gleaned from the ROAD RACING DRIVERS CLUB website. Joe Alexander "Ed Diehl Largo, Fla. Ed started racing in 1960 at Marlboro, Md., in a Triumph TR-3 b& Two years later he and Bob Tullius campaigned a unique (for Bob) black-painted Triumph b& The following year he raced a factory TR4 in the 12 Hours of Sebring, with Charlie Gates and Robert Cole, finishing second in the GT 11 class b& The variety of cars Ed has raced over the years includes a Holman-Moody Ford in a 12-hour sedan race at Marlboro, Md., a Saab Sedan Champ, and a G Modified Lola Mk 1 b& Competed in the first-ever Trans-Am race at Sebring in 1966 and finished fourth in his class with a Saab, co-driven by Sam Perry b& Also once drove one of the rare Corvette Grand Sport cars b& Winner of SCCA Regional and local club championships in a Triumph Spitfire from 1989 to 2000 b&. Currently drives a Mazda RX-7 and instructs in SCCA Driversb Schools." From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 15 08:33:22 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <20071015.072624.2468.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <395027.21742.qm@web57611.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Stop it, please stop. All this talk about driving to the track just may reverse a twenty year trend of bigger trailers and tow vehicles. If this were to happen do you know what would happen to the economy. Not to mention the day dreams that would affect the actions of young children. wink wink nudge nudge William G Rosenbach wrote: Driving your racecar to the track gives you a different mind set at the event, you can break your ride home. Trailering gives more peace of mind, knowing if you break it, you can still get home. I generally drove my car to vintage races. Once in a snow storm with no heat or wipers. Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has a member who last year celebrated his 100th RMVR event as a driver. Bill Miller drives his almost original, stock, as delivered, Shelby GT-350 H to & from events. Packs everything he needs for the weekend in it, including Gerry Cans of fuel. This summer, he drove it from Denver to Miller MSP in Utah. He ONLY runs it on race fuel, so no just stopping at the Mini-Mart. That 100 events does NOT include the about half again that many other events & track days he & his steed have participated in. I believe he has been towed home twice, in all that time. Chek Beuf, an original owner of an original 427 Cobra, used to drive it, on race slicks, to the track. We had several appearances by a TR-3 which pulled a trailer with its race tyres & support materials. Original owner of an original Porsche 912 (looking like it just came off the showroom floor), has been driving to & from the track for years now. My car broke in Steamboat one year, Clive Averill loaded my car on his trailer and I drove his GT-6 back to Denver (you cannot believe how good that 2 litre six sounds at full chat, with no muffler, in the Johnson tunnel!). RMVR has an Historic Group, that encourages entries that are more what the factory produced, not what can be built from the catalogs. We have the Danny Colins Cup award, for that group. Points are awarded for driving To & From the track. If the point of the exercise is to recreate, reenact, racing from earlier years, we would drive to & from the track, time with analog stop watches. Like that's going to happen. Bill 70 GT-6+ On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 "Marx Christian tr4-racing" writes: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing > car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 15 09:09:11 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 08:09:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I seem to keep losing answers. I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 rpm. I am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have done to increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done to make shifting in and out quicker? Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone have good links for OD repair/enhancement? Thanks -- Chuck Arnold From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Oct 15 12:55:37 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:55:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure References: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004501c80f5c$f9e4d2f0$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Chuck, I feel the stock J-type od unit is good as is. I used mine for several years with out any problem. I had a problem with it this year and found the problem wasn't the OD, but a tight bearing in the transmission. This caused the oil to heat up and thin causing the OD to not engage after a few laps. The following session it would work fine for several laps and quit again. Very frustrating and hard to diagnosis. I then put on a Volvo unit that I only clean the magnet and screen, and it worked fine. I had used a A-type transmission and OD borrowed from another racer and I didn't notice much difference except the A shifts up quicker and the J shifts down quicker. I read in an article regarding the J-type unit in a site for Volvos(maybe turbobricks.com) that you can change the relief valve spring to give a high pressure. I put a gauge on mine(J-type) and saw 450psi. I also use Redline 75w90ns oil in mine. I'm not sure how much you're looking for, but this seemed adequate. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Friends" ; "Triumph" <6pack at autox.team.net> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 8:09 AM Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure > Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I seem > to keep losing answers. > > I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 rpm. I > am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have done to > increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done to make > shifting in and out quicker? > > Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone have > good links for OD repair/enhancement? > > Thanks > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From don at carterdesignassociates.com Mon Oct 15 13:31:20 2007 From: don at carterdesignassociates.com (Don Carter) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:31:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Previous brake problem In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c80f61$f7254b80$57e8a8c0@DWC> A month or so ago I had requested ideas for possible causes for left front wheel being the only front brakes I had on my TR6. Several of you told me it couldn't possibly be the PDWA switch, which I thought might be the culprit since I believed it could restrict the fluid from flowing to that wheel. Obviously wrong when looking at the fluid path through the PDWA block to the front brakes. All of you were right-on with that advice!!! I turned my attention to the only other thing I believed could be wrong....the recently installed right caliper itself. When on the rack, both front brakes stopped the hand spin of each tire and wheel. Even though all parts were new in the entire system, from the MC to the braided ss brake hoses to the calipers and pads, the only parts that were remanufactured by the parts supplier were the calipers. I let my wife down from the lift, and bought another set of calipers. Now under hard braking, both wheels bring you down together. Just thought you guys would like to know that you certainly helped to solve another of my simple mysteries. Parts, whether new or remanufactured, once again has proved to me that they can be faulty. It must not take much to restrict the flow of brake fluid. Thanks again for your help. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com don at carterdesignassociates.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 15 13:42:18 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:42:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] FoT Triumphs at VARA and Laughlin Message-ID: FoT, What a pleasure to see the FOT at Las Vegas last weekend. FOT Triumphs are pristinely prepared and run flawlessly....no Mordy or Paul, however. Thanks for the T-Shirt, Chuck Gee! I'd like to see some of the shirt content on the 2008 Watkins Glen Shirt, if Scott Janzen & Ted Schumacher approve. The Coors in Steve Smith's Refrigerator was good, too. Kas & Peg were there for two days. Kas was looking officious with communications head set and a pair of watches. Good weather, with an aluminum overcast of USAF fighters from Nellis. Joe (A) PS: Joe Curry was over at Laughlin, NV with TWO Spitfires on steroids in search of FTD. The Triumph guys were great to see, but there sure were a lot of Gray Hairs making noises with those wierd machines. Uncle Jack couldnt figure out how to work them, so his fortune is still intact. He doesnt make a very good Gray Hair...at least not yet. From chris at tr4-racing.de Mon Oct 15 13:46:09 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:46:09 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car References: <395027.21742.qm@web57611.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004701c80f64$0ee47aa0$6402a8c0@HOME> My car before its way back home.... http://www.tr4-racing.de/pic/2005/zolder/zolder4_ex.JPG ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Husmann To: William G Rosenbach ; chris at tr4-racing.de Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Stop it, please stop. All this talk about driving to the track just may reverse a twenty year trend of bigger trailers and tow vehicles. If this were to happen do you know what would happen to the economy. Not to mention the day dreams that would affect the actions of young children. wink wink nudge nudge William G Rosenbach wrote: Driving your racecar to the track gives you a different mind set at the event, you can break your ride home. Trailering gives more peace of mind, knowing if you break it, you can still get home. I generally drove my car to vintage races. Once in a snow storm with no heat or wipers. Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has a member who last year celebrated his 100th RMVR event as a driver. Bill Miller drives his almost original, stock, as delivered, Shelby GT-350 H to & from events. Packs everything he needs for the weekend in it, including Gerry Cans of fuel. This summer, he drove it from Denver to Miller MSP in Utah. He ONLY runs it on race fuel, so no just stopping at the Mini-Mart. That 100 events does NOT include the about half again that many other events & track days he & his steed have participated in. I believe he has been towed home twice, in all that time. Chek Beuf, an original owner of an original 427 Cobra, used to drive it, on race slicks, to the track. We had several appearances by a TR-3 which pulled a trailer with its race tyres & support materials. Original owner of an original Porsche 912 (looking like it just came off the showroom floor), has been driving to & from the track for years now. My car broke in Steamboat one year, Clive Averill loaded my car on his trailer and I drove his GT-6 back to Denver (you cannot believe how good that 2 litre six sounds at full chat, with no muffler, in the Johnson tunnel!). RMVR has an Historic Group, that encourages entries that are more what the factory produced, not what can be built from the catalogs. We have the Danny Colins Cup award, for that group. Points are awarded for driving To & From the track. If the point of the exercise is to recreate, reenact, racing from earlier years, we would drive to & from the track, time with analog stop watches. Like that's going to happen. Bill 70 GT-6+ On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 "Marx Christian tr4-racing" writes: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing > car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From chris at tr4-racing.de Mon Oct 15 14:09:44 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:09:44 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car References: <737379.5356.qm@web57612.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002501c80f67$550d4400$6402a8c0@HOME> I was the last car leaving the trackside. Converting the car back needs some time. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Husmann To: Marx Christian tr4-racing Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Were you the only one staying in the high rent area? You might want to consider a flamingo or two to dress up the area. I don't have an issue with trailers until they obscure the scenery which is becoming quite common around here. Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: My car before its way back home.... http://www.tr4-racing.de/pic/2005/zolder/zolder4_ex.JPG ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Husmann To: William G Rosenbach ; chris at tr4-racing.de Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Stop it, please stop. All this talk about driving to the track just may reverse a twenty year trend of bigger trailers and tow vehicles. If this were to happen do you know what would happen to the economy. Not to mention the day dreams that would affect the actions of young children. wink wink nudge nudge ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. From S.Janzen at comcast.net Mon Oct 15 14:42:59 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:42:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FoT Triumphs at VARA and Laughlin References: Message-ID: <008e01c80f6b$f99ea460$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Chuck, please send along the tee shirt design if you can so we can take a look. Thanks! Scott Janzen GT6 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: [Fot] FoT Triumphs at VARA and Laughlin > FoT, > > What a pleasure to see the FOT at Las Vegas last weekend. FOT Triumphs > are > pristinely prepared and run flawlessly....no Mordy or Paul, however. > > Thanks for the T-Shirt, Chuck Gee! I'd like to see some of the shirt > content on the 2008 Watkins Glen Shirt, if Scott Janzen & Ted Schumacher > approve. > > The Coors in Steve Smith's Refrigerator was good, too. > > Kas & Peg were there for two days. Kas was looking officious with > communications head set and a pair of watches. > > Good weather, with an aluminum overcast of USAF fighters from Nellis. > > Joe (A) > > PS: Joe Curry was over at Laughlin, NV with TWO Spitfires on steroids in > search of FTD. The Triumph guys were great to see, but there sure were a > lot of > Gray Hairs making noises with those wierd machines. Uncle Jack couldnt > figure > out how to work them, so his fortune is still intact. He doesnt make a > very good > Gray Hair...at least not yet. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Mon Oct 15 14:43:58 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:43:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car References: <200710150229.l9F2TK7b003835@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <00c901c80f6c$1cbfde00$0a10c548@RW> In 1963 we drove the 3 TR-4 cars entered in the 12 hour on the street and roads to the track from Miami. It was VERY cool. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Kantarjiev" To: Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car > It was certainly de rigeur "back in the day" - no transporters for > the factory teams, especially the sports car drivers. > > My work desk has a print of this: > > http://www.klemcoll.com/image/57C1B-9A.aspx?page= > > The caption that Klementaski put on it was "at 180 mph on the way > to Brescia for the Mille Miglia, the wind almost tore my arm > out of its socket while taking this photo". > > Hard to fathom, actually. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From henry at henryfrye.com Mon Oct 15 15:24:35 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:24:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Race Report VSCDA @ Mid-Ohio 1 of 2 Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FB18@server.Triumph.local> Another fantastic race weekend with VSCDA at Mid-Ohio. Weather was downright pleasant in the afternoons, but I will concede it was a little chilly early mornings. The Triumph gang was well represented, and I believe we put on a great show. Track conditions were slick on the first Friday morning sessions, because of a couple days rain prior to our event. I have never drove a track that looked dry that was so wet and slick. By the second morning session things were much better, and the rest of the weekend we had good grip despite coolish temps, but those engines were taking full advantage of that dense, dry air. We were making power! The Beady Eye gang made it look easy, they hung out calmly waiting for our turn to make noise. When that time came they ran well, and I don't know if either Bob Wismer or Bill Dentinger touched a tool other than a tire pressure gauge and the torque wench for the wheel lugs all weekend. Next door was a different story, Mark Wheatley and I seemed to be busy all weekend, first chasing an elusive flat spot on Mark's fresh engine, then trying to track down the source of a driveline vibration on my car. All great fun. Jeff Snook was the Triumph to beat, and nobody had anything for him once he hooked up with Vic Skirmants in his 356. I was hoping Vic would get Jeff to wear out his Hoosiers to the point I would get him, but my vibration woes ended that idea. Kudos to Jeff for beating Vic in the Qualifying race, Vic gave him a real run for his money. In the feature Vic got by Jeff early on, and Jeff's tires gave out on cue, so a repeat performance didn't happen. But any day a Triumph beats up on National Champ Skirmants is a very big deal! Way to go Jeff! Dennis DeLap was running his TR4, with his ever-present pit bunny/wife Joanie at his side. Dennis ran real well, flirted real close to that sub-two minute lap, you will get it next time, my friend. Over in Group 8, Dale Oesterle was the lone Triumph running with all the MGB's, not really sure how VSCDA gets that to work when all the TR3's and 4's run with the MGA's. But anyway, Dale is STILL looking for a FC Spitty block to rebuild his primary race engine. Come on folks, we know you Spit pilots are hoarding these 'getting scarcer by the day' cores. But this is an active racer in a really quick car that needs our help! Continued on Page 2 From henry at henryfrye.com Mon Oct 15 15:26:39 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:26:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Race Report VSCDA @ Mid-Ohio 1 of 2 Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FB19@server.Triumph.local> Continued from page 1 FOT'ers Mike Jackson, John Harkness and John Wiley all bought funny Volkswagen things, but I have to admit that FV crowd does have tons-o-fun. The Wine and Cheese parties, sponsored as always by the Beady Eye Racing Team, had some fantastic whining and really good cheese. Don Brick supplied a hunk of blue to die for. Very honorable mention to John Federici (sp?) for the smoked provolone that was really, really nice. Another highlight was spending time Bob Colazzi and the guy Bob brought to turn wrenches on his Lotus 7. I am terrible with names. Not only did we have great fun giving Colazzi a hard time for any number of things including coming in second overall in our group, but Bob's wrench is the guy that set the speed records at Bonneville in an Alfa. He built and drove it over 200 MPH on the salt. Had me drooling in my beer. I'll post a couple pictures I took of the car at Watkins Glen last year when I get a chance. This event was the MG racers focus event for the season. There were 60 MG powered cars on track, the highlight being a MGTC that hauled. It was driven in both Group 2 and 8, as it was shared by two drivers. It was actually tough to pass, it had amazing straight line speed and the driver in the Group 2 sessions was either incredibly brave or stupid. He is certainly very talented. He tossed that 60 year old car around like it was a real racecar. Very cool to watch. Unfortunately the gearbox gave up end of day Saturday, and it retired for the weekend. The schedule gave everybody 90 minutes of track time in 3 sessions on Friday, two sessions totaling 45 minutes Saturday morning, a 10 lap Sprint race Saturday afternoon, Sunday warm-ups and a 12 lap feature race on Sunday morning. Plus, the MG guys got 2 All-MG feature races, one for the fast and the other for the no-so-fast, AND a gimmick race that I swear the drivers meeting explaining how the thing worked had to take longer than the race would take to run. But, hey, they are MG guys. :-) Our chaos is not that organized!!! I'll be back next year, you folks who don't have this event on your schedule are really missing out on a great event. From henry at henryfrye.com Mon Oct 15 15:37:48 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:37:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Pictures posted... Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FB1A@server.Triumph.local> ... of the Alfa Land Speed record car I mentioned in my VSCDA - Mid-Ohio race report. http://autox.team.net/the-local/tiki-galleries.php From tlizzard at msn.com Mon Oct 15 15:43:31 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:43:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Race Report VSCDA @ Mid-Ohio 1 of 2 References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FB19@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: Thanks for the report Henry! Got filled in this morning By Jeff as well. Sounds like the TR boys were keeping the British end up. Carry on! Terry Stetler From chris at tr4-racing.de Tue Oct 16 02:53:03 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:53:03 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails Message-ID: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME> Since FOT has moved to an new account I don't get FOT mails anymore. I've phoned with my ISP about the problem. They said that some of the smaller US providers don't glue to the standards of internet transfer rules and so they are blocked when their header configuration don't pass the master control program. Even if I set the FOT mails on the white list won't have any change in blocking the FOT mails by my ISP. And on the other way round I can't send mails to some of the US friends (including Kas) .... where I am blocked as spam. >From this point of view we are facing future comunication troubles in global contacts. Cheers Chris From CoffeyJack at bfusa.com Tue Oct 16 07:32:05 2007 From: CoffeyJack at bfusa.com (Coffey, Jack) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:32:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5C33EB5352EE814AB72F655EA92399A20EF7FCB4@exc2-na-chq.bfusa.com> See attached pix.... Blanket bolts to engine plate with metal tabs (photo top) and straps attach blanket to trans case. Has a heat shield on exhaust side Current Deist shields (for Honda) are listed at $194 - $204. I cannot find what I paid for this but I'm sure it was more than $200 Want to make an offer??? Jack Coffey ph:615-937-1535 coffeyjack at bfusa.com -----Original Message----- From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer [mailto:lunkercars at earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 11:06 AM To: Coffey, Jack; FOT Cc: Chuck Arnold Subject: Re: [Fot] Scatershield source? Sure - Please send info just in case Henry does have a 1000' minimum... Honestly, I would be interested in seeing a picture of one. Greg On Oct 10, 2007, at 9:50 AM, Coffey, Jack wrote: > Chuck...Greg....I have a Deist blanket type scattershield...never > used. > If interested, I can send pix & look up what I paid for it > See attached e-mail for further info on attachment & development by > Mordy Dunst & John Frymark > > Jack Coffey > ph:615-937-1535 > coffeyjack at bfusa.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Chuck Arnold > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 10:30 AM > To: Greg Lunker Hilyer > Cc: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? > > On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one > for a > TR5/6 > > On 10/9/07, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: >> >> Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans >> anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett >> last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have >> the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at >> the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> triosan at gmail.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > coffeyjack at bfusa.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Deist_0001.JPG] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Deist_0002.JPG] From chasgee at aol.com Tue Oct 16 08:41:12 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:41:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <8C9DE194C06264D-C10-21D2@webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C9DE19BBCDE149-C10-221A@webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com> Greg, Didn't see your post earlier regarding the VARA rules.? The VARA rules you are quoting are for what we call "group 1" cars, for competitors who wish to compete with nearly stock automobiles.? We have a few of those in the organization, but most prefer to set their cars up to the regular rule book.? Please look more closely at the rulebook and you will see what I mean. I disagree with your overall comments regarding your ability to be competitive.? Kreger built his TR6 for a reason, and can run it where he is from (Seattle area).? My car is built to VARA rules because that is where I'm from.? Funny thing is, there is really nothing fancy about mine, just changes to make it more reliable so that I can increase my seat time.? 12.5:1 compression, 0.055 over bore,?steel rods, massaged stock crankshaft (not stroked - not allowed by our rules)? 30 year old camshaft design (Kastner A-10) and roller rockers.? I do have an aluminum flywheel (built by Lee Mueller) and upraded stock clutch.? All steel body except for trunk lid and hood, upraded springs and shocks, welded diff, and fancy transmission (rules state that you must use the stock case and have the same number of forward gears, so I took a page from the Sprites and built a dog box using Hewland pieces and the Spitfire case.? I think Taylor sells these now).? Obviously, I also run Webers, but Kas thinks it would perform better with twin SUs.? Maybe I'll try that sometime.? My sucess has been from the ability to keep it together and maximize handling.? But the biggest improvement by far is from seat time.? Everyone keeps coming up and asking what I've done to the car to make it so fast.? I keep saying that I've just finally learned to drive it.? Also Greg, I distinctly remember that you were extremely competitive at Miller and a real thorn in my side.? Please don't take that as a negative comment, because I really enjoyed racing and hanging out with you.? I think the reason that was the case is because you've focussed on driving the car rather than maximizing your straightaway performance.? I strongly believe that you would be very competitive at any VARA race with the car as prepped for Miller.? I also stronlgy encourage you to refrain from further prep because, honestly, I don't want the hassle of dealing with you with a locked diff and good brakes! Chuck Gee Blacksmith Racing You wrote: >> Again, no disrespect aimed at >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason. >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules >> read: >> etc, etc >> ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From chris at tr4-racing.de Tue Oct 16 09:11:30 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:11:30 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails References: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME> <8cbd782d0710160802j437bd53fk8947dbe81c03d6d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00bd01c81006$d5059460$6402a8c0@HOME> Especialy the providers Comcast.net juno.com cox.net bellsouth.net and some others block my mails out Chris From chris at tr4-racing.de Tue Oct 16 09:17:40 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:17:40 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails References: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME> <001a01c81006$a62a0900$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <00c901c81007$b2886d80$6402a8c0@HOME> I can send to FOT, but not receive. Only the workaround from Tony Drews keeps me update what is happening here. Kas I've send you 3 mails over the last 2 days but all returned to me. Maybe after 24H I get through again but not sure this is. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails > You messages to me come in plain and clear Chris. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 1:53 AM > Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails > > > > Since FOT has moved to an new account I don't get FOT mails anymore. > > > > I've phoned with my ISP about the problem. > > > > They said that some of the smaller US providers don't glue to the > > standards of > > internet transfer rules and so they are blocked when their header > > configuration don't pass the master control program. Even if I set the FOT > > mails on the white list won't have any change in blocking the FOT mails by > > my > > ISP. > > > > And on the other way round I can't send mails to some of the US friends > > (including Kas) .... where I am blocked as spam. > > > >>From this point of view we are facing future comunication troubles in > >>global > > contacts. > > > > Cheers > > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > kaskas at cox.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Tue Oct 16 10:22:44 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:22:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails References: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME><8cbd782d0710160802j437bd53fk8947dbe81c03d6d1@mail.gmail.com> <00bd01c81006$d5059460$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <002f01c81010$c8782fa0$2d02a8c0@Belkin> I have COX and I think Kas does too and my FOT messages are not blocked, I am sure that Kas' aren't either. Joe C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails > Especialy the providers > > Comcast.net > juno.com > cox.net > bellsouth.net > > and some others block my mails out > > Chris > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Tue Oct 16 14:50:27 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:50:27 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Emailing: 2002_0207AA Message-ID: Photo from the 1965 Races at Lime Rock...Photo by Bill Perry...in the Lime Rock 1966 national races program..July 4th..Tr3 driver is Ken Sloan..Volvo driver is Art riley Racer Bud..spitfire #21 The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: 2002_0207AA Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 2002_0207AA.JPG] From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Oct 16 18:33:50 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:33:50 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails In-Reply-To: <002f01c81010$c8782fa0$2d02a8c0@Belkin> References: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME> <8cbd782d0710160802j437bd53fk8947dbe81c03d6d1@mail.gmail.com> <00bd01c81006$d5059460$6402a8c0@HOME> <002f01c81010$c8782fa0$2d02a8c0@Belkin> Message-ID: <20071017003424.0A2471879C8@autox.team.net> I end up blocked every once in a while. What happens is that someone else using your Internet Service Provider (ISP) is sending out unsolicited e-mails (spam). So, one of the "blacklist" agencies puts the outgoing address (IP address) of these messages on a list of spammers. The companies that subscribe to the blacklist agency then rejects your e-mails. In order to get this fixed, the ISP needs to terminate the spammers account and contact the blacklist agency to get their IP address(es) removed from the blocked list. I have had to do this before for a company that hosted their own e-mail account, and it's no fun to work with the blacklist agencies. In my case, the ISP that hosts my domain, website and e-mail is pretty good about killing the bad guys' account and getting me back in service. It usually takes a couple of days. This doesn't affect FOT e-mails getting to me, or my ability to send to FOT, but it DOES affect my ability to reply privately. In an effort to keep off the blacklist, my ISP limits me to 10 addresses on any outgoing mail. That's bitten me before too on a "reply to all". I have no good suggestions to the German ISP's blocking / rejection of e-mail from the FOT list. It would be nice of them to offer an explanation of what's wrong with the e-mail message headers and what they need to see in those headers in order to NOT block the messages. It's possible that Mark can tweak something to make that change happen. I suspect that an ISP based in Germany is less interested in contacting some agency in the USA that has put them on the "bad guys" list than my US-based ISP is. One possible solution is to get yet ANOTHER e-mail address from someone like google or yahoo. They are likely to keep things moving. Google e-mail can be retrieved by normal e-mail clients. I've read statistics that over 90% of the e-mail sent in the world is unsolicited "spam" e-mail (may be as much as 97%). The volume has roughly doubled over the last year. My personal account has received 199 of them so far today, and I'll probably get 50 more before midnight. There's no perfect solution on how to block these, so different ISP's use different strategies to fight this scourge. This is a HUGE problem and threatens the use of e-mail in general. I've missed key business correspondence because the ISP that hosts my office's e-mail has flagged inter-office communications and communications from vendors and clients as spam. Internet e-mail needs a redesign that solves this problem. - Tony At 11:22 AM 10/16/2007, you wrote: >I have COX and I think Kas does too and my FOT messages are not blocked, I >am sure that Kas' aren't either. > >Joe C. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 8:11 AM >Subject: Re: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails > > > > Especialy the providers > > > > Comcast.net > > juno.com > > cox.net > > bellsouth.net > > > > and some others block my mails out > > > > Chris From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 16 18:50:52 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:50:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails In-Reply-To: <20071017003424.0A2471879C8@autox.team.net> References: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME> <8cbd782d0710160802j437bd53fk8947dbe81c03d6d1@mail.gmail.com> <00bd01c81006$d5059460$6402a8c0@HOME> <002f01c81010$c8782fa0$2d02a8c0@Belkin> <20071017003424.0A2471879C8@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <37366754-2120-4FFA-9DFA-49BAA14B21AA@bnj.com> Using a google email account is a fairly good solution and it's free. You get more than a gigabyte of storage, which should be adequate, and Goggle has pretty effective spam blocking. They also run efficient outgoing email management and policing so their IPs never get blocked. You can retrieve your mail via any system that handles IMAP or POP3 accounts. I have a Gmail account and a .MAC account, but for general use I'm still using BNJ.com which runs on my company's own servers at a tier one hosting facility. We run the most sophisticated spam blockers we can buy, and use pros to manage the systems, and it's still a persistent and serious problem. There IS no such thing as security on the internet, and no current solution to email problems given the current architecture. The most likely answer is complete identifiability on the web--an architecture that eliminates anonymity. But that get the hackles of the internet community up quicker than any other topic I can image. Personally, I have never understood why people believe a totally anonymous system is a good thing. Privacy and anonymity may share some characteristics, but they are not the same thing. From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Oct 17 05:51:09 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 06:51:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> References: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> Chuck, Try Quantum Mechanics - John Esposito (203) 459-9612. He is a British transmission and O/D expert. He can rebuild your O/D to full race specs. He is reasonable, honest and a very helpful guy. To shift faster you will need to drill out the oil passages to increase the pressure and you should install upgraded clutch packs. There are several bearings that also need to be changed to handle the higher level of stress. I'm running about 600 lbs. of pressure in mine and it shifts very quickly! Allen On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I > seem > to keep losing answers. > > I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 > rpm. I > am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have > done to > increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done > to make > shifting in and out quicker? > > Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone > have > good links for OD repair/enhancement? > > Thanks > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > awashatko at wi.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From mlcooknj at msn.com Wed Oct 17 08:05:52 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:05:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA Message-ID: Done! Mike can you send it to the rest of fot? thanks Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: michael cook To: RACER BUD Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Emailing: 2002_0207AA I would have loved to see the photo but some kind electronic agency or whatever decided the attachment should be removed. I know Ken Sloan, I knew Art Riley and I started racing my own TR3 only 2 years later. Lots of memories. Mike Cook ----- Original Message ----- From: RACER BUD Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 6:42 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Emailing: 2002_0207AA Photo from the 1965 Races at Lime Rock...Photo by Bill Perry...in the Lime Rock 1966 national races program..July 4th..Tr3 driver is Ken Sloan..Volvo driver is Art riley Racer Bud..spitfire #21 The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: ----- Original Message ----- From: RACER BUD Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:58 PM To: michael cook Subject: Emailing: 2002_0207AA whoohoo! i think it worked! The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: 2002_0207AA Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 2002_0207AA.JPG] From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Oct 17 08:09:54 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:09:54 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Peter Bulkowski Message-ID: I would like to nominate Peter Bulkowski to FOT. Peter has been in racing for many years, having won 3 E Production championships in Canada by the time he was selected by Jaguar/Rover/Triumph in 1979 to run a TR8 in IMSA,Trans-Am and endurance series. His car is basically a Canadian Group 44 TR8, having been granted access in 1979 through JRT to the Tullius Group 44 shop, the body, frame, suspension and wheels are patterned after the Group 44 TR8. He raced throughout Canada and US from 1980 to 1984 and had a number of top 5 finishes. In 1984 Peter sold the car and got out of racing, however in 2000 a friend found his car which had been sitting for a number of years. Peter gave in to "the force" and bought the car back and completely rebuilt the car over the next three years. He has since raced the car at VARAC Group 70 events and at the Toronto Indy. This year at Mosport he had an engine let go at speed, damaging the right side of the car as it hit the Armco backwards. Luckily Peter was unhurt and now has the car almost fully repaired. He is determined to have it ready for the season next year and plans to race at Watkins Glen, hopefully with/against the Group 44 TR8. It will be quite the reunion. Please can I have a second for the nomination? Paul MacDonald [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From budscars at msn.com Wed Oct 17 08:10:58 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:10:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA Message-ID: Hello Gang..I'll try again..This photo is at Lime rock in 1965..photo by Bill Perry..It's in the 1966, july 4th national races program Tr3 driver is Ken Sloan..Volvo driver is Art Riley Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: RACER BUD To: michael cook Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: Emailing: 2002_0207AA The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: 2002_0207AA Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 2002_0207AA.JPG] From herald948 at aol.com Wed Oct 17 09:08:45 2007 From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:08:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9DEE6BF5C8AAC-A00-3C5A@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: RACER BUD Hello Gang..I'll try again..This photo is at Lime rock in 1965..photo by Bill Perry..It's in the 1966, july 4th national races program Tr3 driver is Ken Sloan..Volvo driver is Art Riley ==AM== Bud, this list won't take attachments. Perhaps you could send it to Mordy Dunst or Henry Frye and/or whoever takes care of the FoT web site: ? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 17 09:16:02 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:16:02 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure In-Reply-To: <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> References: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710170816w6958584al11344eba430d912d@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Allen. I have now done quite a bit of research, but you have brought up a few new wrinkles. I do deal with John already. What bearings need "uprating"? I thought them to already be quite stout. The major issues seem to be with the clutch cone [get it redone with a surface that grips better] and pressure [increase it so shifts happen quicker and engagement remains at speed]. for pressure, there have been three responses: Remember, this is for a J-type, not an A-type]: 1. To hold pressure when not engaged [like coming off the line in a standing start], shorten the 4 inner springs of the operating pistons so it takes more pressure to release to overdrive. 2. For pressure: a: increase the spring rate of the pressure relief valve bu adding a washer or two under the spring b: drill out the "oil passage". Not sure which passage but assume it is the one from the solenoid to the dash pot -- would like a comment on this from anyone who knows c. Get the clutches on the cone relined Does anyone have anymore suggestions? On 10/17/07, Allen Washatko wrote: > > Chuck, > Try Quantum Mechanics - John Esposito (203) 459-9612. He is a British > transmission and O/D expert. He can rebuild your O/D to full race > specs. He is reasonable, honest and a very helpful guy. To shift faster > you will need to drill out the oil passages to increase the pressure > and you should install upgraded clutch packs. There are several > bearings that also need to be changed to handle the higher level of > stress. I'm running about 600 lbs. of pressure in mine and it shifts > very quickly! > > Allen > > On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > > > Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I > > seem > > to keep losing answers. > > > > I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 > > rpm. I > > am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have > > done to > > increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done > > to make > > shifting in and out quicker? > > > > Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone > > have > > good links for OD repair/enhancement? > > > > Thanks > > > > -- > > Chuck Arnold > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > awashatko at wi.rr.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > -- Chuck Arnold From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 17 09:42:11 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:42:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure In-Reply-To: <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> References: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710170842m51acf98el762cf6be0514024e@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Allen. I have now done quite a bit of research, but you have brought up a few new wrinkles. I do deal with John already. What bearings need "uprating"? I thought them to already be quite stout. The major issues seem to be with the clutch cone [get it redone with a surface that grips better] and pressure [increase it so shifts happen quicker and engagement remains at speed]. for pressure, there have been three responses: Remember, this is for a J-type, not an A-type]: 1. To hold pressure when not engaged [like coming off the line in a standing start], shorten the 4 inner springs of the operating pistons so it takes more pressure to release to overdrive. 2. For pressure: a: increase the spring rate of the pressure relief valve bu adding a washer or two under the spring b: drill out the "oil passage". Not sure which passage but assume it is the one from the solenoid to the dash pot -- would like a comment on this from anyone who knows c. Get the clutches on the cone relined Does anyone have anymore suggestions? On 10/17/07, Allen Washatko wrote: > > Chuck, > Try Quantum Mechanics - John Esposito (203) 459-9612. He is a British > transmission and O/D expert. He can rebuild your O/D to full race > specs. He is reasonable, honest and a very helpful guy. To shift faster > you will need to drill out the oil passages to increase the pressure > and you should install upgraded clutch packs. There are several > bearings that also need to be changed to handle the higher level of > stress. I'm running about 600 lbs. of pressure in mine and it shifts > very quickly! > > Allen > > On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > > > Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I > > seem > > to keep losing answers. > > > > I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 > > rpm. I > > am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have > > done to > > increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done > > to make > > shifting in and out quicker? > > > > Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone > > have > > good links for OD repair/enhancement? > > > > Thanks > > > > -- > > Chuck Arnold > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > awashatko at wi.rr.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > -- Chuck Arnold From koblinger at verizon.net Wed Oct 17 10:11:25 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:11:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA Message-ID: <30753818.5577081192637485898.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> You could also upload the photo to one of the free hosting sites like Imageshack. Then send everyone a link to the photo, like this.... http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4292/tr31441ln8.jpg Cheers, Kurt O. >From: herald948 at aol.com >Date: 2007/10/17 Wed AM 10:08:45 CDT >To: budscars at msn.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA >-----Original Message----- >From: RACER BUD > >Hello Gang..I'll try again..This photo is at Lime rock in 1965..photo >by Bill >Perry..It's in the 1966, july 4th national races program Tr3 driver >is Ken >Sloan..Volvo driver is Art Riley > > >==AM== >Bud, this list won't take attachments. Perhaps you could send it to >Mordy Dunst or Henry Frye and/or whoever takes care of the FoT web >site: ? > >--Andy Mace > >*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? >*Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, >Triumph Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > >Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph >Herald Database at its new URL: >________________________________________________________________________ >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - >http://mail.aol.com >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Wed Oct 17 10:46:09 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:46:09 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47163C51.9040406@bradakis.com> The Team.Net lists don't allow attachments, photos, virus programs, etc. in messages. Put the photo someplace like the Image Galleries at http://www.team.net/the-local mjb. From budscars at msn.com Wed Oct 17 11:10:03 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (CHARLES DELAUER) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 17:10:03 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA In-Reply-To: <8C9DEE6BF5C8AAC-A00-3C5A@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: hi gang...I'm not at home now. so I can't send it..I did send it to Mike Cook and to Kevin Lynch..maybe they can send it to some of you Racer bud >From: herald948 at aol.com >To: budscars at msn.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA >Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:08:45 -0400 > >-----Original Message----- >From: RACER BUD > >Hello Gang..I'll try again..This photo is at Lime rock in 1965..photo by >Bill >Perry..It's in the 1966, july 4th national races program Tr3 driver is >Ken >Sloan..Volvo driver is Art Riley > > >==AM== >Bud, this list won't take attachments. Perhaps you could send it to Mordy >Dunst or Henry Frye and/or whoever takes care of the FoT web site: >? > >--Andy Mace > >*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? >*Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph >Herald engine with wings. >-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > >Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph >Herald Database at its new URL: >________________________________________________________________________ >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - >http://mail.aol.com From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Wed Oct 17 11:28:14 2007 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:28:14 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Emailing: 2002_0207AA References: <47163C51.9040406@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <004001c810e3$1a2a2790$08c85246@Elliott> When I had some photos of Bill Ames and his Ambro from 1996, I sent them to Mordy and he put them in the hisorical section on the FOT site for anyone to see. That's where these should go. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Bradakis" To: "fot" Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA > The Team.Net lists don't allow attachments, photos, virus programs, > etc. in messages. Put the photo someplace like the Image Galleries > at http://www.team.net/the-local > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > 58tr3a at videotron.ca > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cartravel at pobox.com Wed Oct 17 12:10:22 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:10:22 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure In-Reply-To: <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> References: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> Message-ID: <4716500E.5090705@pobox.com> I'm not as familiar with the J-types as I am with the A-type, but doesn't the J-type pump only when you engage the overdrive? The shift delay is determined by how long it takes to pump up. If so, increasing the pressure will not make it shift faster. On the other hand, the A-type has an accumulator which holds a volume of pressurized oil, so it will shift faster with greater pressure. I've always thought the A-type with the large accumulator was the best choice for racing. Larry Allen Washatko wrote: > Chuck, > Try Quantum Mechanics - John Esposito (203) 459-9612. He is a British > transmission and O/D expert. He can rebuild your O/D to full race > specs. He is reasonable, honest and a very helpful guy. To shift faster > you will need to drill out the oil passages to increase the pressure > and you should install upgraded clutch packs. There are several > bearings that also need to be changed to handle the higher level of > stress. I'm running about 600 lbs. of pressure in mine and it shifts > very quickly! > > Allen > > On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > > >> Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I >> seem >> to keep losing answers. >> >> I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 >> rpm. I >> am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have >> done to >> increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done >> to make >> shifting in and out quicker? >> >> Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone >> have >> good links for OD repair/enhancement? >> >> Thanks >> >> -- >> Chuck Arnold >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> awashatko at wi.rr.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > cartravel at pobox.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Wed Oct 17 12:28:43 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 14:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination Peter Bulkowski In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Paul MacDonald wrote: > I would like to nominate Peter Bulkowski to FOT. SECOND I have to ponder the thought of having to rescue any of my former Triumphs... that would be quite a feat indeed! Welcome, Peter. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bownes at seiri.com Mon Oct 15 14:04:06 2007 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:04:06 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <004701c80f64$0ee47aa0$6402a8c0@HOME> References: <395027.21742.qm@web57611.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <004701c80f64$0ee47aa0$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: Oscar Kovaleski used to drive his McLaren to/from Watkins Glen. It was apparently quite teh sight flying down Rt 17.... On 10/15/07, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > > My car before its way back home.... > > http://www.tr4-racing.de/pic/2005/zolder/zolder4_ex.JPG > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ernest Husmann > To: William G Rosenbach ; chris at tr4-racing.de > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 4:33 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car > > > Stop it, please stop. All this talk about driving to the track just may > reverse a twenty year trend of bigger trailers and tow vehicles. If this > were > to happen do you know what would happen to the economy. Not to mention > the > day dreams that would affect the actions of young children. > wink wink nudge nudge > > William G Rosenbach wrote: > Driving your racecar to the track gives you a different mind set at > the > event, you can break your ride home. Trailering gives more peace of > mind, > knowing if you break it, you can still get home. I generally drove my > car > to vintage races. Once in a snow storm with no heat or wipers. > > Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has a member who last year celebrated > his > 100th RMVR event as a driver. Bill Miller drives his almost original, > stock, as delivered, Shelby GT-350 H to & from events. Packs > everything > he needs for the weekend in it, including Gerry Cans of fuel. This > summer, he drove it from Denver to Miller MSP in Utah. He ONLY runs it > on > race fuel, so no just stopping at the Mini-Mart. That 100 events does > NOT > include the about half again that many other events & track days he & > his > steed have participated in. I believe he has been towed home twice, in > all that time. > > Chek Beuf, an original owner of an original 427 Cobra, used to drive > it, > on race slicks, to the track. > We had several appearances by a TR-3 which pulled a trailer with its > race > tyres & support materials. > Original owner of an original Porsche 912 (looking like it just came > off > the showroom floor), has been driving to & from the track for years > now. > My car broke in Steamboat one year, Clive Averill loaded my car on his > trailer and I drove his GT-6 back to Denver (you cannot believe how > good > that 2 litre six sounds at full chat, with no muffler, in the Johnson > tunnel!). > > RMVR has an Historic Group, that encourages entries that are more what > the factory produced, not what can be built from the catalogs. We have > the Danny Colins Cup award, for that group. Points are awarded for > driving To & From the track. > > If the point of the exercise is to recreate, reenact, racing from > earlier > years, we would drive to & from the track, time with analog stop > watches. > Like that's going to happen. > > Bill > 70 GT-6+ > > On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 "Marx Christian tr4-racing" > writes: > > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive > racing > > car on > > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > > bucks more to > > spend... > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > ehusmann53 at yahoo.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > bownes at web9.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chasgee at aol.com Tue Oct 16 08:09:33 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:09:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <20071014180636.7C2F3187B01@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8C9DE154FF9E675-C10-1F81@webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com> Greg, Didn't see your post earlier regarding the VARA rules.? The VARA rules you are quoting are for what we call "group 1" cars, for competitors who wish to compete with nearly stock automobiles.? We have a few of those in the organization, but most prefer to set their cars up to the regular rule book.? Please look more closely at the rulebook and you will see what I mean. I disagree with your overall comments regarding your ability to be competitive.? Kreger built his TR6 for a reason, and can run it where he is from (Seattle area).? My car is built to VARA rules because that is where I'm from.? Funny thing is, there is really nothing fancy about mine, just changes to make it more reliable so that I can increase my seat time.? 12.5:1 compression, 0.055 over bore,?steel rods, massaged stock crankshaft (not stroked - not allowed by our rules)? 30 year old camshaft design (Kastner A-10) and roller rockers.? I do have an aluminum flywheel (built by Lee Mueller) and upraded stock clutch.? All steel body except for trunk lid and hood, upraded springs and shocks, welded diff, and fancy transmission (rules state that you must use the stock case and have the same number of forward gears, so I took a page from the Sprites and built a dog box using Hewland pieces and the Spitfire case.? I think Taylor sells these now).? Obviously, I also run Webers, but Kas thinks it would perform better with twin SUs.? Maybe I'll try that sometime.? My sucess has been from the ability to keep it together and maximize handling.? But the biggest improvement by far is from seat time.? Everyone keeps coming up and asking what I've done to the car to make it so fast.? I keep saying that I've just finally learned to drive it.? Also Greg, I distinctly remember that you were extremely competitive at Miller and a real thorn in my side.? Please don't take that as a negative comment, because I really enjoyed racing and hanging out with you.? I think the reason that was the case is because you've focussed on driving the car rather than maximizing your straightaway performance.? I strongly believe that you would be very competitive at any VARA race with the car as prepped for Miller.? I also stronlgy encourage you to refrain from further prep because, honestly, I don't want the hassle of dealing with you with a locked diff and good brakes! Chuck Gee Blacksmith Racing -----Original Message----- From: Keith Files To: 'Greg "Lunker" Hilyer' ; 'FOT' Sent: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 11:05 am Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Hi Greg, Happy to try to address the question of what it did leave the factory with in terms of body, chassis and transmission. The inner body tub has to be original in all respects i.e. all inner panels and bulkheads are standard (although there are some who replace the mild steel with aluminium but I do not) with a number of outer panels in glass fibre (light weight but not by much as the overall reduction in weight is minor 930 kgs as opposed to a street car of 1024 kgs.). No changes to the original silhouette are allowed. The use of glass fibre is preferred as the panels are easy and cheap to replace. The chassis is standard Triumph with all original suspension pick-up points (The rear trailing arms are standard Triumph as is all of the front suspension bar the springs and shocks). The engine block and head must be original and must be in their original location. The gearbox must use a Triumph casing; we use the Stag one as it is stronger but not lighter. The differential case is standard Triumph. Hope this helps. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg "Lunker" Hilyer Sent: 09 October 2007 05:13 To: FOT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Begin forwarded message: > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM MDT > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > >> >> FoTers, >> I think Henry Morrison will be as surprised as I, to find myself >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this discussion >> several times before. However... Personally, I encourage expanded >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for bigger grids. >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a earlier >> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR. >> Regarding your car Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high >> level of preparation, wouldn't it be more concise to list what it >> DID leave the factory with? To me " All original steel panels >> except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door, all 4 wings and >> hardtop " is like saying " all original car except for body, >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know what GRP is >> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the >> rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of >> the art [which your car sounds to be] - not >> "an act or scheme to out whit or deceive" {Webster} >> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no disrespect aimed at >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason. >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules >> read: >> >> Engine: >> >> Same type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit). >> Period correct roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. >> Compression Ratio is limited to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be >> documented as higher from the factory as delivered for street >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and period correct. No aluminum >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless originally sold as >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free but must not conflict >> with stock type appearance of body. >> >> >> Carburetion: >> Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi >> count). No Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped. >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------- >> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in compliance with the >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host club] is even more strict >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 was [as graciously >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an inch of it's >> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group >> [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I >> doubt if Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - >> not really fair to the others. >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how my Vintage prepped >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans to attend >> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain! >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca Wed Oct 17 15:54:03 2007 From: Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca (Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 17:54:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Peter Bulkowski Message-ID: Robert and Paul Thank you for the nomination and second. Hope to see you at the Glen or Mosport next year. Peter -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Lang [lang at isis.mit.edu] Sent: 10/17/2007 02:28 PM To: Paul MacDonald Cc: Fot ;Bulkowskip Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination Peter Bulkowski On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Paul MacDonald wrote: > I would like to nominate Peter Bulkowski to FOT. SECOND I have to ponder the thought of having to rescue any of my former Triumphs... that would be quite a feat indeed! Welcome, Peter. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Roadandtrack at bigpond.com Thu Oct 18 20:07:49 2007 From: Roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:07:49 +1000 Subject: [Fot] overdrive pressures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c811f4$d9b17fc0$0301010a@purplebox> Road & Track 66 Pine Mountain Road North Ipswich, Qld 4305 Ph 07 3201 8866 Fax 07 3201 7079 www.roadandtrack.net.au -----Original Message----- the response is governed by the internal dashpot valve springs and the "z" passage size. This is the tiny orifice going to the solenoid. You need to increase its size to about 3/32". You also need to reduce the clutch travel to about 0.30" by shimming it forward and making the same adjustment to the back bearing. This is very difficult with new clutches as they are commonly out of round. We re-machine them to make them perfect so we can handle such small clearances. The other upgrade is to fit a hardened steel insert where the sun gear squashes into the alloy clutch housing. Provided its not falling apart, the stock clutch lining is perfectly OK--it is used behind big V8's so no TR will ever worry it. There are several variations in the J type internally, so giving much more specific advice will require more info Terry O'Beirne From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Fri Oct 19 06:20:35 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:20:35 -0500 Subject: [Fot] That Loooong Race Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747C6571@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Any other FOTs intending to be at That Loooong Race this weekend at Blackhawk Farms? Scott From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 19 06:44:57 2007 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 05:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" Message-ID: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> AMICI Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" Thanks Dennis DeLap From budscars at msn.com Fri Oct 19 08:32:43 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:32:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Parts spitfire Message-ID: > thanks to SCOTT PILEDRIVER BROWN for this contact amashford at shaw.ca > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Brown" To: "RACER BUD" < > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:42 AM > Subject: Parts > > >> For Sale: Triumph Spitfire Mk1 and Mk2 parts >> >> I recently acquired a huge batch of parts for the above cars, almost >> enough >> to build four cars !! It includes 3 body tubs (one which has been walnut >> shell blasted and primer sealed) 5 bonnets, 5 boot lids, 8 doors, 4 >> engines >> and transmissions, and two rolling frames, and a big pile of everything >> else >> !! Even a fibreglass hardtop, without the back window for the early cars. >> Call me weekends at 360-599-2404 or weekdays at 604-870-9646 or email me >> with your needs amashford at shaw.ca I'll deal the sheet metal reasonable as >> I >> have no need for it, thank you. >> >> Andy From cak at dimebank.com Fri Oct 19 12:04:23 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:04:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] overdrive pressures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4718F1A7.4010706@dimebank.com> ---Original Message----- > the response is governed by the internal dashpot valve springs and the > "z" passage size. This is the tiny orifice going to the solenoid. You > need to increase its size to about 3/32". You also need to reduce the > clutch travel to about 0.30" by shimming it forward and making the same > adjustment to the back bearing. This is very difficult with new clutches > as they are commonly out of round. We re-machine them to make them > perfect so we can handle such small clearances. The other upgrade is to > fit a hardened steel insert where the sun gear squashes into the alloy > clutch housing. Provided its not falling apart, the stock clutch lining > is perfectly OK--it is used behind big V8's so no TR will ever worry it. > > There are several variations in the J type internally, so giving much > more specific advice will require more info > Terry O'Beirne > > > ------------------------------ Does anyone have similar modifications for a D type? I find that the one in my GT6+ tends to slip when it gets warm, no matter what sort or how heavy an oil I put into it... From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Tue Oct 9 16:36:10 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoffrey Byrne) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:36:10 +1000 Subject: [Fot] The Kastner Cup References: <004601c80a90$31883e80$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <006201c80ac4$cb7c5510$41e3efdc@co3017577a> Kas You are always welcome to come to Australia for our annual All Triumph race and "go international" we can even arrange the Down Under Kastner Cup ( would it neeed to be upside down??) Eligibility of our cars for Historic classification is managed nationally controlled by the issue of a vehicle Log Book . Without an Historic Vehicle log book you dont get to race at an historic meeting. Mods are very limited all panels and mechicals must be OEM. We get mixed fields of 40-50 cars with very close racing right through the field. The All Triumph race is run at a non historic meeting to allow the modified cars to run with our historic vehicles . Regards Geoff Byrne TR6 Racer Down Under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:19 AM Subject: [Fot] The Kastner Cup > There is no mystery on the cup presentation. In the very beginning I wanted to > offer this cup to participants that had Triumph cars that were excellent > examples of presentation & preparation, the driver an advocate and involved > person in Vintage type racing and results from the Triumph competition on the > track. The values being approximately 25%, 25% and 50%. > > There are two provisions: > > 1. No driver can win the cup in consecutive years. > 2. The cup is to be awarded once each year and moved around the country to > give opportunity to as many drivers as possible and a venue agreed > by the overall Triumph participants. In general it is East Coast, Central > Area and West Coast on a rotation basis. This has given us to date: > Mosport, Ontario Canada, Buttonwillow California, Atlanta Raceway, > Georgia, Hallet, Oklahoma, and the last, Miller Park, Utah. > > Too date race winners have been chosen three out of five events, DNF > occurrences in the race event and other entanglements during the race did take > some possible winners out of contention three times. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gkbyrne at optushome.com.au > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Fri Oct 19 19:28:46 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:28:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" In-Reply-To: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20071020013257.VGFV13814.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Isky website is showing no info available http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html Intake 40-80 Exhaust 80-40 Valve Lift .480 Valve Lash Hot .028 Duration 300 degrees At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >AMICI > > Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" > > Thanks > Dennis DeLap >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >dave at microworks.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Fri Oct 19 21:23:44 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:23:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" References: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20071020013257.VGFV13814.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: <00c501c812c8$9ec68a70$0a10c548@RW> Just as an observation, but .028" sounds like a lot. ---- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:28 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] ISKY "777" > Isky website is showing no info available > > http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 > > But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: > > http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html > > Intake 40-80 > Exhaust 80-40 > Valve Lift .480 > Valve Lash Hot .028 > Duration 300 degrees > > > At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >>AMICI >> >> Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" >> >> Thanks >> Dennis DeLap >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Sat Oct 20 07:18:03 2007 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" In-Reply-To: <00c501c812c8$9ec68a70$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <619946.21361.qm@web81706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks to all for their "Isky" input. I got this 777 cam from our friend Irv Korey - he had a bunch of extra race parts in his warehouse. Sounds like it is alot like the Kastner "F" cam - identical duration anyway. .........and Kas the .028 does seem extreme - alot of slop. Another question - I have been building my engines with compression ratios in the 10.7 to 1 range. I notice that the competition manual asks for a minimum of 11.7 to 1. How important is this to the function of the race cam? Dennis Kas Kastner wrote: Just as an observation, but .028" sounds like a lot. ---- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:28 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] ISKY "777" > Isky website is showing no info available > > http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 > > But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: > > http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html > > Intake 40-80 > Exhaust 80-40 > Valve Lift .480 > Valve Lash Hot .028 > Duration 300 degrees > > > At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >>AMICI >> >> Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" >> >> Thanks >> Dennis DeLap >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From S.Janzen at comcast.net Sat Oct 20 07:48:16 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 09:48:16 -0400 Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" References: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20071020013257.VGFV13814.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: <000a01c8131f$de6dc970$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Seems high to me too, but my Crane grind calls for .028 intake and .030 exh hot. I was running less but when I adjusted to this the valve train quieted down a lot . ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] ISKY "777" > Isky website is showing no info available > > http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 > > But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: > > http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html > > Intake 40-80 > Exhaust 80-40 > Valve Lift .480 > Valve Lash Hot .028 > Duration 300 degrees > > > At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >>AMICI >> >> Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" >> >> Thanks >> Dennis DeLap >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Sat Oct 20 08:54:55 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 09:54:55 -0500 Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" In-Reply-To: <619946.21361.qm@web81706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <619946.21361.qm@web81706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dennis, I ran my cam grinder's recommendation of .020 intake and .022 exhaust and ended up with hammered valve stems. I now run .015 intake and .016 exhaust with good results. CR is 11.8:1. Allen On Oct 20, 2007, at 8:18 AM, Dennis DeLap wrote: > Thanks to all for their "Isky" input. > > I got this 777 cam from our friend Irv Korey - he had a bunch of > extra race parts in his warehouse. Sounds like it is alot like the > Kastner "F" cam - identical duration anyway. > > .........and Kas the .028 does seem extreme - alot of slop. > > Another question - I have been building my engines with compression > ratios in the 10.7 to 1 range. I notice that the competition manual > asks for a minimum of 11.7 to 1. How important is this to the > function of the race cam? > > Dennis > > Kas Kastner wrote: > Just as an observation, but .028" sounds like a lot. > > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "David W. Riddle" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] ISKY "777" > > >> Isky website is showing no info available >> >> http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 >> >> But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: >> >> http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html >> >> Intake 40-80 >> Exhaust 80-40 >> Valve Lift .480 >> Valve Lash Hot .028 >> Duration 300 degrees >> >> >> At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >>> AMICI >>> >>> Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" >>> >>> Thanks >>> Dennis DeLap >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> dave at microworks.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > yellow-green at sbcglobal.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > awashatko at wi.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From Fubog1 at aol.com Sat Oct 20 09:31:42 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:31:42 EDT Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" Message-ID: The running clearance for any particular profile is a critical part of the overall design. It's based largely on accelerations (both ways) & if the clearance ramp isn't correct there will be conflicting forces in the valve train, & resultant wear/breakage. I advise following cam manufacturers specs. Assuming that weights, geometry, ratio, materials, etc are all to spec, this will give the best results. FWIW... Glen In a message dated 10/20/2007 10:56:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: Dennis, I ran my cam grinder's recommendation of .020 intake and .022 exhaust and ended up with hammered valve stems. I now run .015 intake and .016 exhaust with good results. CR is 11.8:1. Allen On Oct 20, 2007, at 8:18 AM, Dennis DeLap wrote: > Thanks to all for their "Isky" input. > > I got this 777 cam from our friend Irv Korey - he had a bunch of > extra race parts in his warehouse. Sounds like it is alot like the > Kastner "F" cam - identical duration anyway. > > .........and Kas the .028 does seem extreme - alot of slop. > > Another question - I have been building my engines with compression > ratios in the 10.7 to 1 range. I notice that the competition manual > asks for a minimum of 11.7 to 1. How important is this to the > function of the race cam? > > Dennis > > Kas Kastner wrote: > Just as an observation, but .028" sounds like a lot. > > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "David W. Riddle" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] ISKY "777" > > >> Isky website is showing no info available >> >> http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 >> >> But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: >> >> http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html >> >> Intake 40-80 >> Exhaust 80-40 >> Valve Lift .480 >> Valve Lash Hot .028 >> Duration 300 degrees >> >> >> At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >>> AMICI >>> >>> Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" >>> >>> Thanks >>> Dennis DeLap >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> dave at microworks.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > yellow-green at sbcglobal.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > awashatko at wi.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 fubog1 at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From hottr6 at hotmail.com Sat Oct 20 18:31:45 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:31:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] ISky 777 Message-ID: For more stuff on TR6 cams than you care to know, check out http://triumph.hottr6.com/tr6cams.html. Most cam manufacturers do not give out the all important lobe center which I have computed for each cam assuming symmetry. Shane Ingate, relaxin' after a nice drive in the NM mountains. _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Sat Oct 20 22:43:53 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 21:43:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure Message-ID: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on the front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended air pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. Jim Hearn Sacramento, CA Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 21 00:42:21 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:42:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure In-Reply-To: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> References: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <53BE8E86-7E17-4B77-870E-E1C8D9D54F2A@bnj.com> It would depend on how the car is sprung and how the suspension is set up, but it's fairly common for production based cars to work best with a little more rear tire pressure than front. Especially if you are running radial tires. If only because you can add a little camber in the front, but not so easy to do that in the back (not impossible, just not easy). On Oct 20, 2007, at 9:43 PM, jim hearn wrote: > It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little > higher on the > front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory > recommended air > pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for > "high > speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the > rear > than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the > TR6 with > race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. > > Jim Hearn > Sacramento, CA > Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef > which had a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Oct 21 08:50:21 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:50:21 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure References: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <000e01c813f1$b5e5c700$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> I'm still early in learning how best to set up my TR4A but I have found that 30 front and 31.5 rear works OK with Hoosier Speedsters on my car. I started our 30 all across and gradually upped the rears. Without the lower front pressures turn in was too light. I had the car weighed the last time out and I'm going to do some adjustments so my pressures may be meaningless to someone else. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:43 PM Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure > It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on > the > front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended > air > pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high > speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear > than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with > race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. > > Jim Hearn > Sacramento, CA > Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Sun Oct 21 11:34:07 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:34:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship Message-ID: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite unexpected World Championship for Kimi. Joe C. From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 21 12:24:32 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:24:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship In-Reply-To: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and champagne. On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite > unexpected > World Championship for Kimi. > > > > Joe C. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 15:12:19 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:12:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship In-Reply-To: References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and 3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his karting. He was running a KT100 Here is the Hamilton Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >champagne. > >On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > > > What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite > > unexpected > > World Championship for Kimi. > > > > > > > > Joe C. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > billb at bnj.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >dave at microworks.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr5racer at btinternet.com Sun Oct 21 15:50:06 2007 From: tr5racer at btinternet.com (JOSEPH HUGHES) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:50:06 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship Message-ID: <144981.47393.qm@web86615.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Great race but a bad result for us Brits especially as we lost the Rugby World Cup Final yesterday as well. In my opinion Lewis should have tied up the title in China when, had the team changed his tyres earlier, he would not have gone into the gravel entering the pitlane. I also do not understand why they the team opted for a 3 stop strategy in todays race as I believe that cost him a higher place finish. But then again I am biased as his grandfathers a friend of mine! Mike Hughes --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. From chris at tr4-racing.de Sun Oct 21 16:51:01 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 00:51:01 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure Message-ID: Jim, I run more pressure on the front tires because the rear tires heat more up than the front ones....I'm around 24 psi. Cheers Chris It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on the front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended air pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. Jim Hearn Sacramento, CA Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tony at tonydrews.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sun Oct 21 17:11:00 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:11:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <002d01c81437$a533eea0$0a10c548@RW> In my days of hard racing I found that a different pressure in each tire was required, depending on the track and which way it turned the most. My thought on this is do not be afraid to TRY something. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship > Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the > season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and > 3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. > > Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to > put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. > > For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at > Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his > karting. He was running a KT100 > > Here is the Hamilton Video > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g > > Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s > > At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >>champagne. >> >>On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: >> >> > What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite >> > unexpected >> > World Championship for Kimi. >> > >> > >> > >> > Joe C. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > http://www.team.net/donate.html >> > >> > billb at bnj.com >> > Fot mailing list >> > Fot at autox.team.net >> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tony at tonydrews.com Sun Oct 21 17:15:22 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:15:22 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure In-Reply-To: <000e01c813f1$b5e5c700$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> <000e01c813f1$b5e5c700$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <20071021231601.7556C1879D3@autox.team.net> I run about 10 psi lower with the speedsters, and have the rears a pound or two lower than the front - with my sideways car, they end up close at the end of the race. But, this is in a solid axle car with 0 rear camber. - Tony At 09:50 AM 10/21/2007, BOB KRAMER wrote: >I'm still early in learning how best to set up my TR4A but I have found that >30 front and 31.5 rear works OK with Hoosier Speedsters on my car. I started >our 30 all across and gradually upped the rears. Without the lower front >pressures turn in was too light. I had the car weighed the last time out and >I'm going to do some adjustments so my pressures may be meaningless to >someone else. > >Bob Kramer >rkramer3 at austin.rr.com >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jim hearn" >To: >Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:43 PM >Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure > > > > It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on > > the > > front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended > > air > > pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high > > speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear > > than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with > > race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Jim Hearn > > Sacramento, CA > > Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) > > > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > > a name of winmail.dat] > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >tony at tonydrews.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sun Oct 21 17:23:36 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:23:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> Apparently Hamilton's car went into neutral on corner four (for no known reason) and then it was a struggle to get it to work again. Kimi, YES!!!!!. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship > Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the > season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and > 3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. > > Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to > put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. > > For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at > Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his > karting. He was running a KT100 > > Here is the Hamilton Video > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g > > Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s > > At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >>champagne. >> >>On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: >> >> > What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite >> > unexpected >> > World Championship for Kimi. >> > >> > >> > >> > Joe C. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > http://www.team.net/donate.html >> > >> > billb at bnj.com >> > Fot mailing list >> > Fot at autox.team.net >> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 21 17:38:12 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:38:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship In-Reply-To: <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. I don't think it makes sense to say someone deserves a win--if they win, they deserve it. But Kimi certainly had a break coming. Nice to see him finally get one. On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > Apparently Hamilton's car went into neutral on corner four (for no > known > reason) and then it was a struggle to get it to work again. Kimi, > YES!!!!!. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David W. Riddle" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:12 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship > > >> Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the >> season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and >> 3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. >> >> Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to >> put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. >> >> For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at >> Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his >> karting. He was running a KT100 >> >> Here is the Hamilton Video >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g >> >> Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s >> >> At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>> Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >>> champagne. >>> >>> On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: >>> >>>> What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite >>>> unexpected >>>> World Championship for Kimi. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Joe C. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> billb at bnj.com >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot at autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> dave at microworks.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Sun Oct 21 17:51:52 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:51:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship In-Reply-To: <144981.47393.qm@web86615.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <144981.47393.qm@web86615.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c8143d$5acc05e0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> As the Speed Channel Talking heads proclaimed, "There is a good reason why a rookie has never won the F1 World Championship!" In this case it was a couple of rookie mistakes that cost Lewis the title. The first one as you describe was at China when Lewis should have been liking to finish in at least 5th place to lock up the title. Instead, he lost sight of the bigger picture and let his competitive juices overcome him and he was trying to finish first. The second was at today's race where he tried off the bat to get back around Alonzo and went off the track. I can't say, but it appears to me that excursion may have damaged his electronics which cost him a number of places a few laps later and ended up costing him any chance of finishing high enough to recover the championship lead. I am a Ferrari fan myself but I was secretly rooting for Lewis because I think like Tiger Woods is for golf he is good for F1 and has shown that he has the talent to be a champion. Hopefully, he will also soon have the maturity to complete the task. Cheers, Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of JOSEPH HUGHES Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:50 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship Great race but a bad result for us Brits especially as we lost the Rugby World Cup Final yesterday as well. In my opinion Lewis should have tied up the title in China when, had the team changed his tyres earlier, he would not have gone into the gravel entering the pitlane. I also do not understand why they the team opted for a 3 stop strategy in todays race as I believe that cost him a higher place finish. But then again I am biased as his grandfathers a friend of mine! Mike Hughes --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 17:52:50 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:52:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers standings where they are. At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, >and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. > >I don't think it makes sense to say someone deserves a win--if they >win, they deserve it. But Kimi certainly had a break coming. Nice to >see him finally get one. > >On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > >>Apparently Hamilton's car went into neutral on corner four (for no >>known >>reason) and then it was a struggle to get it to work again. Kimi, >>YES!!!!!. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "David W. Riddle" >>To: >>Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:12 PM >>Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship >> >> >>>Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the >>>season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and >>>3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. >>> >>>Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to >>>put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. >>> >>>For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at >>>Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his >>>karting. He was running a KT100 >>> >>>Here is the Hamilton Video >>> >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g >>> >>>Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 >>> >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s >>> >>>At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>>>Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >>>>champagne. >>>> >>>>On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: >>>> >>>>>What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite >>>>>unexpected >>>>>World Championship for Kimi. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Joe C. >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>>> >>>>>billb at bnj.com >>>>>Fot mailing list >>>>>Fot at autox.team.net >>>>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>>dave at microworks.net >>>>Fot mailing list >>>>Fot at autox.team.net >>>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>>_______________________________________________ >>>http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>>kaskas at cox.net >>>Fot mailing list >>>Fot at autox.team.net >>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>billb at bnj.com >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 21 18:04:41 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:04:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in > doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton > up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would > be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers > standings where they are. > > At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >> rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, >> and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. From spitlist at cox.net Sun Oct 21 18:14:56 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:14:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW><3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com><20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> Message-ID: <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> According to the F1 web site, "The BMW Sauber and Williams teams have escaped penalty after being investigated by Brazilian Grand Prix stewards over fuel irregularities on their cars at the end of Sunday's Interlagos race." So if this is indeed right, your hope has been confirmed! Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:05 PM To: David W. Riddle Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in > doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton > up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would > be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers > standings where they are. > > At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >> rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, >> and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 18:13:35 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:13:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20071022001754.WUFD15556.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> The issue seems to be that the sampled fuel at impound was below the allowed ambient temperature deviation. If they will tear the cars down and discover illegal fuel cooling devices then Williams and BMW should be penalized. Will/Should the penalty affect just the team or both the team and the drivers? I'm sure Kimi and Lewis are watching the developments with great interest. At 05:04 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to >active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards >seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. > > >On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > >>Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in >>doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton >>up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would >>be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers >>standings where they are. >> >>At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>>It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >>>rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, >>>and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 18:20:22 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:20:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> formula1.com (the official site) is not yet reporting this result and neither is f1i.com (kinda an "outlaw" site). SpeedTV's website is saying that they were not penalized. Would be interesting to know how the fuel in the tank was 14 degrees cooler than the ambient air? Kas any suggestions? I'm sure other racers would like to know how to cool their fuel on hot days. At 05:14 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >According to the F1 web site, "The BMW Sauber and Williams teams >have escaped penalty after being investigated by Brazilian Grand >Prix stewards over fuel irregularities on their cars at the end of >Sunday's Interlagos race." > >So if this is indeed right, your hope has been confirmed! > >Joe > > >-----Original Message----- >From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net >[mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:05 PM >To: David W. Riddle >Cc: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! > >I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to >active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards >seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. > > >On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > > > Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in > > doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton > > up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would > > be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers > > standings where they are. > > > > At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: > >> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was > >> rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, > >> and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >spitlist at cox.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From koblinger at verizon.net Sun Oct 21 19:04:46 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:04:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <471BF72E.6020607@verizon.net> Could be that the fuel was chilled in the refueling rig thinking that the fuel would warm up to within the allowable temp range in the car by the time it had to be measured. In the Trans-Am days Roger Penske's team used to put dry ice in the refueling rig to chill the fuel. Cold fuel is more dense, takes up less space so you essentially get more fuel per gallon. At one Trans-Am race the cars unexpectedly had to run an extra pace lap or two and the Penske boys were really worried the fuel tank in Donohue's Camaro would split from the cold fuel expanding faster than it could be used. Just one more "Unfair Advantage". Cheers, Kurt O. David W. Riddle wrote: >formula1.com (the official site) is not yet reporting this result and >neither is f1i.com (kinda an "outlaw" site). SpeedTV's website is >saying that they were not penalized. > >Would be interesting to know how the fuel in the tank was 14 degrees >cooler than the ambient air? > >Kas any suggestions? I'm sure other racers would like to know how to >cool their fuel on hot days. From budscars at msn.com Sun Oct 21 19:50:46 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:50:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW><3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com><20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com><000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <471BF72E.6020607@verizon.net> Message-ID: Boy Oh Boy..I remember That Stuff....Those Were The Days! Racer Bud in Sonoma, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kurt Oblinger" To: "David W. Riddle" ; "FOT" Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! > Could be that the fuel was chilled in the refueling rig thinking that > the fuel would warm up to within the allowable temp range in the car by > the time it had to be measured. In the Trans-Am days Roger Penske's team > used to put dry ice in the refueling rig to chill the fuel. Cold fuel is > more dense, takes up less space so you essentially get more fuel per > gallon. At one Trans-Am race the cars unexpectedly had to run an extra > pace lap or two and the Penske boys were really worried the fuel tank in > Donohue's Camaro would split from the cold fuel expanding faster than it > could be used. Just one more "Unfair Advantage". > > Cheers, > Kurt O. > > David W. Riddle wrote: > >>formula1.com (the official site) is not yet reporting this result and >>neither is f1i.com (kinda an "outlaw" site). SpeedTV's website is >>saying that they were not penalized. >> >>Would be interesting to know how the fuel in the tank was 14 degrees >>cooler than the ambient air? >> >>Kas any suggestions? I'm sure other racers would like to know how to >>cool their fuel on hot days. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 21 21:10:48 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:10:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> It wasn't the fuel in the car, it was the fuel being delivered by the fueling rig, They are allowed to have cooling, in fact all teams do, but they have to stay within a specific range of ambient. The brouhaha is that they BMW and Williams teams were a few degrees cooler than they were supposed to be. The mitigating circumstance is that the officially measured ambient temperature and the unofficially measured ambient were further apart than at any event this year. The stewards initially decided not to apply a penalty, but their reasoning had to do with technical issues that they are not qualified to determine. So the potential for a change in the championship still exists--McLaren has filed a protest and it will need to be considered. On Oct 21, 2007, at 5:20 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > formula1.com (the official site) is not yet reporting this result and > neither is f1i.com (kinda an "outlaw" site). SpeedTV's website is > saying that they were not penalized. > > Would be interesting to know how the fuel in the tank was 14 degrees > cooler than the ambient air? > > Kas any suggestions? I'm sure other racers would like to know how to > cool their fuel on hot days. > > At 05:14 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >> According to the F1 web site, "The BMW Sauber and Williams teams >> have escaped penalty after being investigated by Brazilian Grand >> Prix stewards over fuel irregularities on their cars at the end of >> Sunday's Interlagos race." >> >> So if this is indeed right, your hope has been confirmed! >> >> Joe >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net >> [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of >> Bill Babcock >> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:05 PM >> To: David W. Riddle >> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! >> >> I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to >> active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards >> seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. >> >> >> On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: >> >>> Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in >>> doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton >>> up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points >>> would >>> be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers >>> standings where they are. >>> >>> At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>>> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >>>> rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a >>>> change, >>>> and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> spitlist at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sun Oct 21 22:32:30 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 21:32:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW><3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com><20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com><000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <007e01c81464$8f37c0e0$0a10c548@RW> Come on!!!! Cool fuel, Only since the middle ages. We ALWAYS did this. On my Vitesse (1972) I had a cool can in the engine compartment that was full of ice and cooled the fuel before it went to the carbs. Not quite as effective as in the tank, but then it was within the regulations. We tried in every way possible with the GTP cars to keep the fuel cool (and the tires hot). Some tricks were never found. This is what we did for a LIVING. We paid attention. The F-1 guys are more than that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! > formula1.com (the official site) is not yet reporting this result and > neither is f1i.com (kinda an "outlaw" site). SpeedTV's website is > saying that they were not penalized. > > Would be interesting to know how the fuel in the tank was 14 degrees > cooler than the ambient air? > > Kas any suggestions? I'm sure other racers would like to know how to > cool their fuel on hot days. > > At 05:14 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>According to the F1 web site, "The BMW Sauber and Williams teams >>have escaped penalty after being investigated by Brazilian Grand >>Prix stewards over fuel irregularities on their cars at the end of >>Sunday's Interlagos race." >> >>So if this is indeed right, your hope has been confirmed! >> >>Joe >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net >>[mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill >>Babcock >>Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:05 PM >>To: David W. Riddle >>Cc: fot at autox.team.net >>Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! >> >>I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to >>active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards >>seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. >> >> >>On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: >> >> > Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in >> > doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton >> > up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would >> > be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers >> > standings where they are. >> > >> > At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >> >> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >> >> rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, >> >> and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>spitlist at cox.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 23:33:12 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:33:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Bill, it was the fuel in the cars and not in the fueling rig. http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41157 "...After Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix the stewards analysed fuel samples taken from the Williams and BMW cars during their pit stops, which appeared to show temperatures outside the permitted range..." At 08:10 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >It wasn't the fuel in the car, it was the fuel being delivered by the >fueling rig, They are allowed to have cooling, in fact all teams do, >but they have to stay within a specific range of ambient. The >brouhaha is that they BMW and Williams teams were a few degrees >cooler than they were supposed to be. The mitigating circumstance is >that the officially measured ambient temperature and the unofficially >measured ambient were further apart than at any event this year. The >stewards initially decided not to apply a penalty, but their >reasoning had to do with technical issues that they are not qualified >to determine. So the potential for a change in the championship still >exists--McLaren has filed a protest and it will need to be considered. From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 23:33:31 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:33:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume In-Reply-To: <007e01c81464$8f37c0e0$0a10c548@RW> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <007e01c81464$8f37c0e0$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <20071022053749.BEWP15556.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> With the controversy from the F1 race today and the possible cooling of fuel by BMW and Williams and the idea of cooling the fuel to get it to take up less volume got me thinking. Next month on the 25th my Son will have a 45 minute Endurance race on his 125 shifter at Firebird Main. Normally there is no way that a fuel hungry "built" 125 shifter motor can go that distance on the single 9 liter tank that we are allowed to run. The fuel rules as presented for this race. --------------- * No mandatory stops. * 9 liter maximum fuel capacity (2.37 gallons) for TAG and Shifter groups. This is equal to the largest normally available plastic tanks. * No unusual fuel line or filter set ups. * No auxiliary fuel tanks. * Recommended that no more than 1 gallon be added when refueling. * No pressurized refueling systems. --------------- Now, the supplemental rules do not say anything about cooling the fuel and the normal rules only address the use of prohibited cooling "systems". I'm thinking I ought to take a chance a fill a container with our mixed fuel and keep it in an ice cooler until just before the race. After qualifying drain the tank. Push the kart to grid and then fill the tank there on the grid just before time to push off for the race. Think the increased density of the chilled fuel would make a measurable difference in the capacity that I'm talking about? If so this seems like it might be in the best tradition of Mark Donahue. No fuel gauge on a kart and once the level drops below a certain volume the driver can't see how much fuel is left in the tank. I'm planning on testing during practice and qualifying to see if I can check his fuel level with binoculars so that I can determine if I need to hang a sign to pit for fuel. From spitlist at cox.net Sun Oct 21 23:46:49 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:46:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume In-Reply-To: <20071022053749.BEWP15556.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW><3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com><20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com><000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><007e01c81464$8f37c0e0$0a10c548@RW> <20071022053749.BEWP15556.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: <001801c8146e$f0bc27c0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Do they allow you to spray foam onto the outside of the tank? If so, then you should go to the hardware store and get a can of polyurethane foam then spray a coating all around it. That will keep it cool longer and hopefully avoid expansion that might cause the tank to overflow. A float in the tank connected to a light (ala MGTD) might be a way for him to know that he is running low in case the cool fuel doesn't allow him to go the full distance. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David W. Riddle Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 10:34 PM To: fot at autox.team.net; wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com; william.r.riddle at usmc.mil; ssedmonds at cox.net; scott at microworks.net; members at dctra.org Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume With the controversy from the F1 race today and the possible cooling of fuel by BMW and Williams and the idea of cooling the fuel to get it to take up less volume got me thinking. Next month on the 25th my Son will have a 45 minute Endurance race on his 125 shifter at Firebird Main. Normally there is no way that a fuel hungry "built" 125 shifter motor can go that distance on the single 9 liter tank that we are allowed to run. The fuel rules as presented for this race. --------------- * No mandatory stops. * 9 liter maximum fuel capacity (2.37 gallons) for TAG and Shifter groups. This is equal to the largest normally available plastic tanks. * No unusual fuel line or filter set ups. * No auxiliary fuel tanks. * Recommended that no more than 1 gallon be added when refueling. * No pressurized refueling systems. --------------- Now, the supplemental rules do not say anything about cooling the fuel and the normal rules only address the use of prohibited cooling "systems". I'm thinking I ought to take a chance a fill a container with our mixed fuel and keep it in an ice cooler until just before the race. After qualifying drain the tank. Push the kart to grid and then fill the tank there on the grid just before time to push off for the race. Think the increased density of the chilled fuel would make a measurable difference in the capacity that I'm talking about? If so this seems like it might be in the best tradition of Mark Donahue. No fuel gauge on a kart and once the level drops below a certain volume the driver can't see how much fuel is left in the tank. I'm planning on testing during practice and qualifying to see if I can check his fuel level with binoculars so that I can determine if I need to hang a sign to pit for fuel. spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Mon Oct 22 00:13:38 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:13:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW><3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com><20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com><000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <001901c81472$afafa410$2202a8c0@newcomputer> I am wondering how the fuel samples are taken from the cars during pit stops. With all the mechanics hovering over the cars changing tires and refueling, I can't see how any race officials can possibly take samples from the car. (Some of them can't even stay out of the way of certain drivers.) I would believe that they take samples from the rig shortly after refueling but not from the car. I just can't see how that would be possible. I wait eagerly to see how this develops and think that if the McLaren protest does take place and upheld, putting Lewis into the championship; there will be a major outcrying from a host of people. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David W. Riddle Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 10:33 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! Bill, it was the fuel in the cars and not in the fueling rig. http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41157 "...After Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix the stewards analysed fuel samples taken from the Williams and BMW cars during their pit stops, which appeared to show temperatures outside the permitted range..." At 08:10 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >It wasn't the fuel in the car, it was the fuel being delivered by the >fueling rig, They are allowed to have cooling, in fact all teams do, >but they have to stay within a specific range of ambient. The >brouhaha is that they BMW and Williams teams were a few degrees >cooler than they were supposed to be. The mitigating circumstance is >that the officially measured ambient temperature and the unofficially >measured ambient were further apart than at any event this year. The >stewards initially decided not to apply a penalty, but their >reasoning had to do with technical issues that they are not qualified >to determine. So the potential for a change in the championship still >exists--McLaren has filed a protest and it will need to be considered. spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 22 00:14:18 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:14:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <9D2354BD-FFDA-46EE-8F42-580B6EB4B66B@bnj.com> Actually, you're wrong, and that's part of the steward's decision. The FIA samples the fuel during pits stops. They don't take it from the car, they take it from the fueling rig. Article 6.5.5 of the F1 technical rules state that, No fuel on board the car may be more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient temperature. The FIA have now confirmed that the trios fuel temperatures were outside the permitted temperatures, saying the fuel was more than 10 degrees below the ambient temperature. In a statement, it has been revealed that during his first pit-stop, Heidfelds fuel temperature was 13 degrees lower than the ambient temperature, and during his second stop, his fuel was 12 degrees lower. Robert Kubicas pit-stops have revealed that his temperatures were 14 degrees, 13 degrees and 13 degrees out respectively. Nico Rosbergs fuel temperatures were 13 and 12 degrees out. It has also been revealed that the second BMW of Kazuki Nakajima also had fuel temperature irregularities  his fuel was 12 degrees out on the first stop, however his fuel temperatures were within regulations on his second stop. The air temperature during the race averaged 37 degrees, while track temperatures topped a record 64 degrees. The stewards stated in their finding that they have no precise reading of the fuel on board the car, and that since the only temperatures they have available are from the fueling rigs, that the measurements don't fit the requirements of the regulation which states the "fuel on board can be no more than ten degrees cooler than ambient." Fuel rig temperature is not a completely accurate indication of the temperature on board, which is the how the regulation reads. This seems to be a pretty clear decision even if it rests on a technical point that the stewards are not really qualified to make. But they unfortunately clouded the issue by also saying that the definition of ambient was only assumed to be the temperature indicated on the F1 management timing monitors but there was a large discrepancy between the FOM ambient and the meteorologists that the teams contract with, and the regulation does not clearly state that the FOM number is definitive. The stewards conclusion was that there is sufficient doubt as to both the temperature of the fuel actually on board and as to the true ambient temperature to render it inappropriate to impose a penalty On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:33 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > Bill, it was the fuel in the cars and not in the fueling rig. > > http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41157 > > "...After Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix the stewards analysed fuel > samples taken from the Williams and BMW cars during their pit stops, > which appeared to show temperatures outside the permitted range..." > > At 08:10 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >> It wasn't the fuel in the car, it was the fuel being delivered by the >> fueling rig, They are allowed to have cooling, in fact all teams do, >> but they have to stay within a specific range of ambient. The >> brouhaha is that they BMW and Williams teams were a few degrees >> cooler than they were supposed to be. The mitigating circumstance is >> that the officially measured ambient temperature and the unofficially >> measured ambient were further apart than at any event this year. The >> stewards initially decided not to apply a penalty, but their >> reasoning had to do with technical issues that they are not qualified >> to determine. So the potential for a change in the championship still >> exists--McLaren has filed a protest and it will need to be >> considered. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 22 00:18:30 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:18:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <29E7EBF5-82A6-4815-B8FC-CB882FEED013@bnj.com> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <9D2354BD-FFDA-46EE-8F42-580B6EB4B66B@bnj.com> <29E7EBF5-82A6-4815-B8FC-CB882FEED013@bnj.com> Message-ID: <84A5481B-BBED-4B75-BCCF-5798ED5860DE@bnj.com> Oops, jammed up by the message size limit. Let's try this: On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:16 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I should have put quotes around this section > On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:14 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> Actually, you're wrong, and that's part of the steward's decision. >> The FIA samples the fuel during pits stops. They don't take it from >> the car, they take it from the fueling rig. >> >> >>>"Article 6.5.5 of the F1 technical rules state that, No fuel >> on board >> the car may be more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient >> temperature. The FIA have now confirmed that the trios fuel >> temperatures were outside the permitted temperatures, saying the fuel >> was more than 10 degrees below the ambient temperature. >> >> In a statement, it has been revealed that during his first pit-stop, >> Heidfelds fuel temperature was 13 degrees lower than the ambient >> temperature, and during his second stop, his fuel was 12 degrees >> lower. >> >> Robert Kubicas pit-stops have revealed that his temperatures were 14 >> degrees, 13 degrees and 13 degrees out respectively. Nico Rosbergs >> fuel temperatures were 13 and 12 degrees out. >> >> It has also been revealed that the second BMW of Kazuki Nakajima also >> had fuel temperature irregularities  his fuel was 12 degrees out on >> the first stop, however his fuel temperatures were within regulations >> on his second stop. The air temperature during the race averaged 37 >> degrees, while track temperatures topped a record 64 degrees."<<< >> >> The stewards stated in their finding that they have no precise >> reading of the fuel on board the car, and that since the only >> temperatures they have available are from the fueling rigs, that the >> measurements don't fit the requirements of the regulation which >> states the "fuel on board can be no more than ten degrees cooler than >> ambient." Fuel rig temperature is not a completely accurate >> indication of the temperature on board, which is the how the >> regulation reads. >> >> This seems to be a pretty clear decision even if it rests on a >> technical point that the stewards are not really qualified to make. >> But they unfortunately clouded the issue by also saying that the >> definition of ambient was only assumed to be the temperature >> indicated on the F1 management timing monitors but there was a large >> discrepancy between the FOM ambient and the meteorologists that the >> teams contract with, and the regulation does not clearly state that >> the FOM number is definitive. >> >> The stewards conclusion was that there is sufficient doubt as to both >> the temperature of the fuel actually on board and as to the true >> ambient temperature to render it inappropriate to impose a penalty From DSPGTi at aol.com Mon Oct 22 06:00:04 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:00:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume Message-ID: If I remember correctly, the expansion rate for gasoline is about .6% for every 10 degrees F. So if you drop the fuel say 40 degrees, you decrease the volume by 2.4%. Will that make a significant enough difference? Dave Y. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From chris at tr4-racing.de Mon Oct 22 06:40:21 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:40:21 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife race Message-ID: <001b01c814a8$b65a6da0$6402a8c0@HOME> Weeks ago I was there with my camera..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXKFSp5Vvbw From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Mon Oct 22 09:01:28 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:01:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure In-Reply-To: <000e01c813f1$b5e5c700$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <000801c814bc$6c647830$171a694c@computer> I just had an autocross weekend where the course was 5 continuous laps and I ran 31 lbs all the way around in my TR6. What I am trying to determine through this question and the experience of FOT guys is whether or not there is any application on the race track for the TR6 factory recommended 4 (or so) lbs less pressure in the front than the back. I don't know what the factory pressure recommendations are for TR 3, 4, and 4A are but if they are similar to the TR6 (which is 4 lbs less in the front than the rear), then my question extends to them too. Also, I don't know if this type of engineering thinking is Triumph, British, the era or what. Any thoughts? Jim Hearn Sacramento, CA Two '74 TR6s -----Original Message----- From: BOB KRAMER [mailto:rkramer3 at austin.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 7:50 AM To: jim hearn; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing tire pressure I'm still early in learning how best to set up my TR4A but I have found that 30 front and 31.5 rear works OK with Hoosier Speedsters on my car. I started our 30 all across and gradually upped the rears. Without the lower front pressures turn in was too light. I had the car weighed the last time out and I'm going to do some adjustments so my pressures may be meaningless to someone else. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:43 PM Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure > It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on > the > front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended > air > pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high > speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear > than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with > race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. > > Jim Hearn > Sacramento, CA > Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Mon Oct 22 09:05:22 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:05:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship In-Reply-To: <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> Message-ID: <000901c814bc$f83c55d0$171a694c@computer> Kimi is a deserving champion especially with clouds over the points of both the McLaren drivers. I thought it was a great outcome. Jim Hearn Sacramento, CA Two '74 TR6s -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 4:38 PM To: Kas Kastner Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. I don't think it makes sense to say someone deserves a win--if they win, they deserve it. But Kimi certainly had a break coming. Nice to see him finally get one. On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > Apparently Hamilton's car went into neutral on corner four (for no > known > reason) and then it was a struggle to get it to work again. Kimi, > YES!!!!!. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David W. Riddle" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:12 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship > > >> Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the >> season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and >> 3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. >> >> Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to >> put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. >> >> For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at >> Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his >> karting. He was running a KT100 >> >> Here is the Hamilton Video >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g >> >> Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s >> >> At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>> Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >>> champagne. >>> >>> On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: >>> >>>> What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite >>>> unexpected >>>> World Championship for Kimi. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Joe C. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> billb at bnj.com >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot at autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> dave at microworks.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Oct 22 09:23:10 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:23:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip Message-ID: <000c01c814bf$74f520f0$0501000a@Chowdown> After careful cleaning and rebuilding of my race SU carbs, the rear carb slowly drips blue racing fuel. I'm actually at a better point now than I was before when both of them were drooling gasoline. I've rebuilt them twice on the bench and once in the car. :) I suspect the problem lies with the small cork "jet gland seals" that get compressed between the cupped washers. I've soaked these little guys in oil overnight to soften them up but perhaps my rebuild kits are too old and they have dried out too much. There's a "leak proof" o-ring replacement from Moss, are these any good? Here are my four questions: 1, How tight should I go with the jet locking nut? Until the upper (outer) jet bearing is aligned with the bridge? As I tighten it, a tan cork seal gets compressed. 2, The jet-gland gaskets that I described above were compressed into tight little doughnut shapes when I took the old ones out. The new ones don't seem to compress very much and I think they're the cause of my leak. Will they seal better over time as they get soaked with gas and the spring keeps smooshing them? 3, The jet adjusting nut at the bottom hangs up on the spring and causes the jet bearing to turn when I try to tighten the nut. I added a thin washer between the nut and the bottom of the spring. Is this okay? 4. All the adjustment procedures are for a 500rpm stock idle. My race car won't do that. More like 1200rpm. Can I synchronise the carbs and adjust the mixture at a high idle? Thanks gang. ~Steve From koblinger at verizon.net Mon Oct 22 11:00:00 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:00:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume Message-ID: <1923980.39062231193072400713.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> Well, you could experiment and take a carefully measured amount of fuel, say a liter, and chill it as you plan. Then remeasure it to see how much volume you gain. I assume you have an idea as to how many laps you get out of a liter. Then you could get an idea as to if you gain any real advantage. Joe's idea of insulating the fuel tank is good, but your competitors would see that and go "Hmmmm, what's he up to." Cheers, Kurt >From: "David W. Riddle" >Date: 2007/10/22 Mon AM 12:33:31 CDT >To: fot at autox.team.net, "wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com" , william.r.riddle at usmc.mil, ssedmonds at cox.net, scott at microworks.net, members at dctra.org >Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume >With the controversy from the F1 race today and the possible cooling >of fuel by BMW and Williams and the idea of cooling the fuel to get >it to take up less volume got me thinking. > >Next month on the 25th my Son will have a 45 minute Endurance race on >his 125 shifter at Firebird Main. Normally there is no way that a >fuel hungry "built" 125 shifter motor can go that distance on the >single 9 liter tank that we are allowed to run. > >The fuel rules as presented for this race. > >--------------- >* No mandatory stops. >* 9 liter maximum fuel capacity (2.37 gallons) for TAG and Shifter groups. >This is equal to the largest normally available plastic tanks. >* No unusual fuel line or filter set ups. >* No auxiliary fuel tanks. >* Recommended that no more than 1 gallon be added when refueling. >* No pressurized refueling systems. >--------------- > >Now, the supplemental rules do not say anything about cooling the >fuel and the normal rules only address the use of prohibited cooling >"systems". I'm thinking I ought to take a chance a fill a container >with our mixed fuel and keep it in an ice cooler until just before >the race. After qualifying drain the tank. Push the kart to grid >and then fill the tank there on the grid just before time to push off >for the race. > >Think the increased density of the chilled fuel would make a >measurable difference in the capacity that I'm talking about? If so >this seems like it might be in the best tradition of Mark Donahue. > >No fuel gauge on a kart and once the level drops below a certain >volume the driver can't see how much fuel is left in the tank. I'm >planning on testing during practice and qualifying to see if I can >check his fuel level with binoculars so that I can determine if I >need to hang a sign to pit for fuel. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Mon Oct 22 13:23:02 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:23:02 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume Message-ID: <20071022.132302.2104.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> I was amazed just how much gasoline expands when warmed. In my '76 Spitfire, when I was going on long drives, I had a section of 3/16 copper tubing bent into a 'J'. I would insert it into the fuel tank inlet to vent the air space at the top of the tank. On one occasion, my time from fueling to departure got extended a bit and the car was parked in the sun. When I was ready to leave, there was a sheet of gasoline cascading off the boot lid. I'm sure if I had popped the gas cap open, it would have gushed at least a foot above the inlet. That was probably less than a 25'F increase. Never did that again unless I was driving it immediately after fueling. Bill On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:00:04 EDT DSPGTi at aol.com writes: > If I remember correctly, the expansion rate for gasoline is about .6% > for > every 10 degrees F. So if you drop the fuel say 40 degrees, you > decrease the > volume by 2.4%. Will that make a significant enough difference? > > Dave Y. > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Mon Oct 22 13:57:50 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:57:50 -0600 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! Message-ID: <20071022.135750.2104.1.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Is it time to suspect thermometers? Accuracy, calibration, user competency; the basics. Bill R On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:18:30 -0700 Bill Babcock writes: > Oops, jammed up by the message size limit. Let's try this: > On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:16 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > > > I should have put quotes around this section > > On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:14 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > > > >> Actually, you're wrong, and that's part of the steward's > decision. > >> The FIA samples the fuel during pits stops. They don't take it > from > >> the car, they take it from the fueling rig. > >> > >> >>>"Article 6.5.5 of the F1 technical rules state that, No fuel > >> on board > >> the car may be more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient > >> temperature. The FIA have now confirmed that the trios fuel > >> temperatures were outside the permitted temperatures, saying the > fuel > >> was more than 10 degrees below the ambient temperature. > >> > >> In a statement, it has been revealed that during his first > pit-stop, > >> Heidfelds fuel temperature was 13 degrees lower than the > ambient > >> temperature, and during his second stop, his fuel was 12 degrees > >> lower. > >> > >> Robert Kubicas pit-stops have revealed that his temperatures > were 14 > >> degrees, 13 degrees and 13 degrees out respectively. Nico > Rosbergs > >> fuel temperatures were 13 and 12 degrees out. > >> > >> It has also been revealed that the second BMW of Kazuki Nakajima > also > >> had fuel temperature irregularities  his fuel was 12 degrees out > on > >> the first stop, however his fuel temperatures were within > regulations > >> on his second stop. The air temperature during the race averaged > 37 > >> degrees, while track temperatures topped a record 64 > degrees."<<< > >> > >> The stewards stated in their finding that they have no precise > >> reading of the fuel on board the car, and that since the only > >> temperatures they have available are from the fueling rigs, that > the > >> measurements don't fit the requirements of the regulation which > >> states the "fuel on board can be no more than ten degrees cooler > than > >> ambient." Fuel rig temperature is not a completely accurate > >> indication of the temperature on board, which is the how the > >> regulation reads. > >> > >> This seems to be a pretty clear decision even if it rests on a > >> technical point that the stewards are not really qualified to > make. > >> But they unfortunately clouded the issue by also saying that the > >> definition of ambient was only assumed to be the temperature > >> indicated on the F1 management timing monitors but there was a > large > >> discrepancy between the FOM ambient and the meteorologists that > the > >> teams contract with, and the regulation does not clearly state > that > >> the FOM number is definitive. > >> > >> The stewards conclusion was that there is sufficient doubt as to > both > >> the temperature of the fuel actually on board and as to the true > >> ambient temperature to render it inappropriate to impose a > penalty > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Oct 22 14:57:05 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:57:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife race In-Reply-To: <001b01c814a8$b65a6da0$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: Nice sound and action. Thanks Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Marx Christian tr4-racing Sent: October 22, 2007 8:40 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife race Weeks ago I was there with my camera..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXKFSp5Vvbw macdonaldp at rogers.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Mon Oct 22 15:01:09 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:01:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! References: <20071022.135750.2104.1.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <00d401c814ee$abc02f10$0a10c548@RW> Absolutely, you protest EVERYTHING. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William G Rosenbach" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! > Is it time to suspect thermometers? Accuracy, calibration, user > competency; the basics. > Bill R > > On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:18:30 -0700 Bill Babcock writes: >> Oops, jammed up by the message size limit. Let's try this: >> On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:16 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: >> >> > I should have put quotes around this section >> > On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:14 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: >> > >> >> Actually, you're wrong, and that's part of the steward's >> decision. >> >> The FIA samples the fuel during pits stops. They don't take it >> from >> >> the car, they take it from the fueling rig. >> >> >> >> >>>"Article 6.5.5 of the F1 technical rules state that, No fuel >> >> on board >> >> the car may be more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient >> >> temperature. The FIA have now confirmed that the trios fuel >> >> temperatures were outside the permitted temperatures, saying the >> fuel >> >> was more than 10 degrees below the ambient temperature. >> >> >> >> In a statement, it has been revealed that during his first >> pit-stop, >> >> Heidfelds fuel temperature was 13 degrees lower than the >> ambient >> >> temperature, and during his second stop, his fuel was 12 degrees >> >> lower. >> >> >> >> Robert Kubicas pit-stops have revealed that his temperatures >> were 14 >> >> degrees, 13 degrees and 13 degrees out respectively. Nico >> Rosbergs >> >> fuel temperatures were 13 and 12 degrees out. >> >> >> >> It has also been revealed that the second BMW of Kazuki Nakajima >> also >> >> had fuel temperature irregularities  his fuel was 12 degrees out >> on >> >> the first stop, however his fuel temperatures were within >> regulations >> >> on his second stop. The air temperature during the race averaged >> 37 >> >> degrees, while track temperatures topped a record 64 >> degrees."<<< >> >> >> >> The stewards stated in their finding that they have no precise >> >> reading of the fuel on board the car, and that since the only >> >> temperatures they have available are from the fueling rigs, that >> the >> >> measurements don't fit the requirements of the regulation which >> >> states the "fuel on board can be no more than ten degrees cooler >> than >> >> ambient." Fuel rig temperature is not a completely accurate >> >> indication of the temperature on board, which is the how the >> >> regulation reads. >> >> >> >> This seems to be a pretty clear decision even if it rests on a >> >> technical point that the stewards are not really qualified to >> make. >> >> But they unfortunately clouded the issue by also saying that the >> >> definition of ambient was only assumed to be the temperature >> >> indicated on the F1 management timing monitors but there was a >> large >> >> discrepancy between the FOM ambient and the meteorologists that >> the >> >> teams contract with, and the regulation does not clearly state >> that >> >> the FOM number is definitive. >> >> >> >> The stewards conclusion was that there is sufficient doubt as to >> both >> >> the temperature of the fuel actually on board and as to the true >> >> ambient temperature to render it inappropriate to impose a >> penalty >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> wgrosenbach at juno.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Mon Oct 22 15:47:24 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:47:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! References: <20071022.135750.2104.1.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <005d01c814f5$22413160$2d02a8c0@Belkin> The way I see it is that since the rule stipulates temperature of the fuel in the car. Since there is no way to measure the temperature of the fuel in the car, there is no way that anyone can possibly say conclusively that the fuel in the cars is too cool. It is easy to imagine that cool fuel will rise in temperature as soon as it goes into the (very hot) race car and with the temps in the rig not more than 3 degrees out of tolerance, how could anyone conclude that the fuel would stay out of tolerance after it went into the car. It certainly isn't going to get any colder and most likely will be hotter immediately. But then, it is anybody's guess how those people think! Joe C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William G Rosenbach" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! > Is it time to suspect thermometers? Accuracy, calibration, user > competency; the basics. > Bill R From chris at tr4-racing.de Mon Oct 22 16:01:10 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:01:10 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife race References: Message-ID: <006901c814f7$0edbe9b0$6402a8c0@HOME> I've found the YouTube quality terrible so here is a better version to download: http://www.tr4-racing.de/download/adac.wmv ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul MacDonald" To: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" ; Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:57 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Nordschleife race > Nice sound and action. > > Thanks > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of > Marx Christian tr4-racing > Sent: October 22, 2007 8:40 AM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife race > > > Weeks ago I was there with my camera..... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXKFSp5Vvbw > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > macdonaldp at rogers.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tlizzard at msn.com Mon Oct 22 16:39:40 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:39:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure References: <000801c814bc$6c647830$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: Typically what a manufacturer is doing with a tire pressure setup like that in a stock vehicle is giving the vehicle more straight line stability. Remember that most drivers confuse "stability" with "handling". Hence a car that is very stable in a straight line is a "good handling car". Now one of the things you are trying to achieve with higher front pressures is a crisper turn in, in addition to helping to balance a typically front heavy car. Those higher pressures in the front will make the car more responsive to steering input. Very important in a low speed, relatively tight autocross situation. Back in the day I actively campaigned my '88 Honda CRX in our SCCA regional autocross series. Because of the very understeery nature of front wheel drive I typically ran a 10 pound differential front to rear in autocross mode. However when I took the same car to Mid Ohio to run Porsche Club or Track Time schools I backed it down to around a 6 pound delta, because of the much higher speeds involved on the track, and FWD's interesting little characteristic of violent trailing throttle oversteer... But that's another story... Terry Stetler From mark at bradakis.com Mon Oct 22 16:45:48 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:45:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] List message sizes In-Reply-To: <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> Message-ID: <471D281C.1090708@bradakis.com> Finally getting around to answering an old question. Sorry for the delay. Bill Babcock wrote: >First one bounced--too big. Hey Mark, isn't 4K a bit too restrictive? > > Well, yes and no, sort of. It is an arbitrary limit I just picked. On some of the other big lists, though, it is only 3K. Basically the problem lies in the default behavior of many popular email clients in use today. When people respond to a message, the *entire* message is added to the end of the response. Unlike this message, which has only one pertinent line included, at the beginning, where it is clear to see the issue under discussion. So what happens is that as people continue discussion on a topic, the messages keep getting longer and longer and longer and longer. There may be only two or three lines still pertinent to the discussion or necessary for context, but all the useless verbiage keeps getting dragged along for the ride. Last time I actually ran some statistical programs on the Team.Net lists, about 70 - 80 percent of the character count of list messages was text that was included for no real reason at all. That's about the same as buying a 6 pack of your favorite beverage, and getting one or two that are the actual fresh, new beverage, the rest are, uh, recycled product. All this extra, useless text does is slow down the Team.Net network line, transmitting bits that it doesn't need to transmit. It slows down the list archiving processes, as they have to go over the same text again and again. Gee, nothing like getting 50 hits on your search only to find that 48 of them are the same old paragraph added again and again and again to peoples replies. The added replies slow down the mail processing, adding to the delays in getting the messages out to the list. If the preceding paragraph is too much computer jargon for you to get your mind around, then think of it this way - how would your race car start behaving if every time you crossed the start/finish line you had to stop and take on another 50 pounds of ballast? And of course, there is the time I have to spend cleaning up bouncing addresses because all the clueless replies filled up the mailboxes of hapless subscribers who've hit their limit. I know that I'm never going to be able to singlehandedly change human behavior, but it sure would be nice if a few more folks spent an extra few seconds on their list messages. Set your mailer to NOT include the original in your reply, just paste in the appropriate line or two as I did above. Or at least delete the text that serves no purpose in your response, rather than just absentmindedly trying to stuff it down the Team.Net pipe for no useful reason. If you do have a lot to say and your all-original message does hit up against the size limit, I do try to stay somewhat current with admin requests, and I'll approve such messages and get them on their way as I have time. Gee, this message is getting kind of long. Wonder how many folks will respond, and include it in its entirety in their response? For now, I'll just send it off and then spend some more time wading through the 7,664 unread messages cuurently in my Team.Net admin mailbox. mjb. From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Mon Oct 22 16:55:02 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:55:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] List message sizes In-Reply-To: <471D281C.1090708@bradakis.com> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net><34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com><2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> <471D281C.1090708@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747C67E0@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> << Wonder how many folks will respond, and include it in its entirety in their response? For now, I'll just send it off and then spend some more time wading through the 7,664 unread messages currently in my Team.Net admin mailbox. >> Er, all of which reminds me that I haven't hit the "donate" link in a few months... Thanks, Mark! Scott B. -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Mark J. Bradakis Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:46 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] List message sizes Finally getting around to answering an old question. Sorry for the delay. mjb. scott.barr at mccarty-law.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From SpiwakD at aol.com Mon Oct 22 16:58:18 2007 From: SpiwakD at aol.com (SpiwakD at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:58:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] Tilton brake piston size Message-ID: Am considering a Tilton pedal setup with master and slave cylinders for TR3. Who knows what size piston to order? Dave ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From rocky at spitfire4.com Mon Oct 22 16:59:30 2007 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:59:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure References: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <006c01c814ff$407b2f50$6701a8c0@S1099895562> Numerous factors figure in, including corner weight. Also a factor is what you set them at cold and what they end up at hot. In my Spitfire, I set them 21F/24R for autocross, 18F/21R for racing. They end up hot in the 25-27 range. Used to be long, long ago my autox setup was just the reverse -- 24/21. Then I lost 100 lbs on the front end by taking the stock steel bonnet off and replacing it with a lightweight fiberglass one. Completely changed the handling of the car. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:43 PM Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure > It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on > the > front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended > air > pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high > speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear > than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with > race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. > > Jim Hearn > Sacramento, CA > Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rocky at spitfire4.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Mon Oct 22 17:56:19 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:56:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Tire Pressures Message-ID: <50069b074a4f98c0dd02f121cb8acc31@wi.rr.com> Friends, At Road America, I run cold pressures as follows: 30.5 LF, 29 RF, 27 LR and 29.5 RR. Hot pressures run 37 LF, 36 RF, 34 LR and 34 RR. I'm running a 1" bar in the front with a 3/4" bar at the rear. Tires are 15" Toyo RA-1's. Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 22 18:42:22 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:42:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure In-Reply-To: <003501c8150c$121228f0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <000801c814bc$6c647830$171a694c@computer> <8B7293C3-8E2F-49B6-9AD8-1E5F9BD82172@bnj.com> <003501c8150c$121228f0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: Hard to say where your car is without ensuring the camber is right first. Usually with radial tires like the Hoosier Speedsters you need at least 2.5 degrees, though you might need more with a heavy car. If you don't have camber right, then the feel of the car won't be a real indication that your tire pressures are right or wrong. You can overinflate a car with too little camber and get a better feeling turn in, because the overinflation effectively produces both a stiffer sidewall, and a bowed contact area which acts like camber to some degree. It won't be anywhere near optimal, but it will feel good. If you're getting oversteer on a Triumph then something is seriously screwy. You've got to work at it to get oversteer on any Triumph I've driven (admittedly mostly TR3's and 4 though I have a little seat time on track in a TR6) On Oct 22, 2007, at 5:31 PM, BOB KRAMER wrote: > Bill, > > It was my copied response that mentioned too light. I did mean that > on my car with equal front and rear pressures I experience > oversteer, the kind that takes away speed because I felt like I was > about to whip the rear around at all times. Dropping the front > pressure definitely helped balance out that sensation. I'm not > saying that it isn't faster that way, not yet at least. > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" > To: "jim hearn" > Cc: "'BOB KRAMER'" ; > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:17 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing tire pressure > > >> Jim, >> The factory tire recommendations have nothing to do with racing. >> In racing conditions you need to take into consideration two >> things-- optimizing the contact patch and making sure the tires >> are pointing in the right direction. >> >> The best tool for optimizing the tire contact patch is a tire >> pyrometer and a skid pad (or a really tight and twisty race >> track). What you want to see is even temperatures across the tire >> which indicates the tire is pressing with essentially equal force >> against the road across the entire tire. At a normal race track >> you don't get a good indication of outer edge temperature because >> it gets cooled as the car runs down the straight. From stutzmans at comcast.net Mon Oct 22 19:08:18 2007 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:08:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip References: <000c01c814bf$74f520f0$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <000301c81511$35b1c810$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> leaking H6 carbs is one of the main reasons why many of us are using HS6 carbs. I am reluctant to even rebuild H6's for friends because they are probably going to leak. Dave hagenbuck at TRF has O rings to replace the cork gland washers that he says work. The jet bearing is not replaced when they are rebuilt; it is not part of the rebuild kit. It can get out of round by years of the jet rubbing against it when the choke is pulled on and off. If this has happened the cork washer won't seal. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:23 AM Subject: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip > After careful cleaning and rebuilding of my race SU carbs, the rear carb > slowly drips blue racing fuel. I'm actually at a better point now than I > was > before when both of them were drooling gasoline. I've rebuilt them twice > on > the bench and once in the car. :) I suspect the problem lies with the > small > cork "jet gland seals" that get compressed between the cupped washers. > I've > soaked these little guys in oil overnight to soften them up but perhaps my > rebuild kits are too old and they have dried out too much. There's a > "leak > proof" o-ring replacement from Moss, are these any good? > > Here are my four questions: > > 1, How tight should I go with the jet locking nut? Until the upper > (outer) > jet bearing is aligned with the bridge? As I tighten it, a tan cork seal > gets > compressed. > > 2, The jet-gland gaskets that I described above were compressed into > tight > little doughnut shapes when I took the old ones out. The new ones don't > seem > to compress very much and I think they're the cause of my leak. Will they > seal better over time as they get soaked with gas and the spring keeps > smooshing them? > > 3, The jet adjusting nut at the bottom hangs up on the spring and causes > the > jet bearing to turn when I try to tighten the nut. I added a thin washer > between the nut and the bottom of the spring. Is this okay? > > 4. All the adjustment procedures are for a 500rpm stock idle. My race car > won't do that. More like 1200rpm. Can I synchronise the carbs and adjust > the > mixture at a high idle? > > > Thanks gang. > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > stutzmans at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Oct 22 19:25:01 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:25:01 GMT Subject: [Fot] Tilton brake piston size Message-ID: <20071022.212501.6449.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Dave, I am on the road for the week, so can't look to see what I have where, but I have two 0.70 masters and one 0.75 master. I think the 0.75 is front and a 0.7 for clutch and the other for rear. I, however have Jaguar 3 piston front calipers and Wilwood rear calipers, so my car may not be a good comparison. I went with the Wilwood pedal assembly with Tilton master cylinders. Initially this was because the Tilton pedals were on back order, but after looking at them closer I liked the Wilwood ones better for how I was going to mount them. They also have non-slip pedals. Download the drawings and compare them. Joe(B) -- SpiwakD at aol.com wrote: Am considering a Tilton pedal setup with master and slave cylinders for TR3. Who knows what size piston to order? Dave ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click for free info on rehab treatments for drug & alcohol dependency. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmXaaxGA6ibYLOci1amBZKiO vdOsJCGyFPWX3p1oce20rtbE/ From budscars at msn.com Mon Oct 22 19:30:29 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:30:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] tires Message-ID: hi jim...and FOT. I believe that your tr6 racer(I assume you are talking about your racer..not your streeter) is an ex SCCA car..That means it's set up differently than an autocrosser.....As Bill said..the Big Triumphs inherently understeer.....I suggest driving your car in a NASA event to see how it works at higher speeds.. For a few hundred bucks you can spend the weekend sorting out your car....and get some seat time too Racer Bud From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Mon Oct 22 21:22:31 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:22:31 -0500 Subject: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip In-Reply-To: <000301c81511$35b1c810$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> Message-ID: <000001c81523$f7d13220$8d20b348@blake1> Anyone try using the Hatachi built HS6 from a Datsun on a TR motor? I loved the ones I had on my Z. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Stutzman Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:08 PM To: Steve Belfer; Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip leaking H6 carbs is one of the main reasons why many of us are using HS6 carbs. I am reluctant to even rebuild H6's for friends because they are probably going to leak. Dave hagenbuck at TRF has O rings to replace the cork gland washers that he says work. The jet bearing is not replaced when they are rebuilt; it is not part of the rebuild kit. It can get out of round by years of the jet rubbing against it when the choke is pulled on and off. If this has happened the cork washer won't seal. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:23 AM Subject: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip > After careful cleaning and rebuilding of my race SU carbs, the rear carb > slowly drips blue racing fuel. I'm actually at a better point now than I > was > before when both of them were drooling gasoline. I've rebuilt them twice > on > the bench and once in the car. :) I suspect the problem lies with the > small > cork "jet gland seals" that get compressed between the cupped washers. > I've > soaked these little guys in oil overnight to soften them up but perhaps my > rebuild kits are too old and they have dried out too much. There's a > "leak > proof" o-ring replacement from Moss, are these any good? > > Here are my four questions: > > 1, How tight should I go with the jet locking nut? Until the upper > (outer) > jet bearing is aligned with the bridge? As I tighten it, a tan cork seal > gets > compressed. > > 2, The jet-gland gaskets that I described above were compressed into > tight > little doughnut shapes when I took the old ones out. The new ones don't > seem > to compress very much and I think they're the cause of my leak. Will they > seal better over time as they get soaked with gas and the spring keeps > smooshing them? > > 3, The jet adjusting nut at the bottom hangs up on the spring and causes > the > jet bearing to turn when I try to tighten the nut. I added a thin washer > between the nut and the bottom of the spring. Is this okay? > > 4. All the adjustment procedures are for a 500rpm stock idle. My race car > won't do that. More like 1200rpm. Can I synchronise the carbs and adjust > the > mixture at a high idle? > > > Thanks gang. > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > stutzmans at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ablake2 at austin.rr.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 21:58:25 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:58:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tilton brake piston size In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710222058j7b93c2c3x982dbc86e001b1a3@mail.gmail.com> Having put 5/8s on my TR5 race car, after having 3/4s on my TR6 track day car, I prefer the 3/4 -- pretty hard and now stopping. Have disks up front and Morgan 7/8 cylinders on the drums in the rear, so may not be the same with a 3. Like Joe Boruch, I have Wilwood pedals on the 5, but I had Tiltons on the 6. On 10/22/07, SpiwakD at aol.com wrote: > > Am considering a Tilton pedal setup with master and slave cylinders > for TR3. > Who knows what size piston to order? > > Dave > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 22 22:34:48 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:34:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tilton brake piston size In-Reply-To: <20071022.212501.6449.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> References: <20071022.212501.6449.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: There's a lot to be said for using all the same size cylinders if you are going to have a bias bar. For one thing, you only need one spare rebuild kit for all three MC. On Oct 23, 2007, at 1:25 AM, Joe Boruch wrote: > Dave, I am on the road for the week, so can't look to see what I > have where, > but I have two 0.70 masters and one 0.75 master. I think the 0.75 > is front > and a 0.7 for clutch and the other for rear. I, however have > Jaguar 3 piston > front calipers and Wilwood rear calipers, so my car may not be a good > comparison. I went with the Wilwood pedal assembly with Tilton master > cylinders. Initially this was because the Tilton pedals were on > back order, > but after looking at them closer I liked the Wilwood ones better > for how I was > going to mount them. They also have non-slip pedals. Download the > drawings > and compare them. Joe(B) > > -- SpiwakD at aol.com wrote: > Am considering a Tilton pedal setup with master and slave cylinders > for TR3. > Who knows what size piston to order? > > Dave From chris at tr4-racing.de Tue Oct 23 00:40:18 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:40:18 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure Message-ID: <002a01c8153f$94ca2da0$6402a8c0@HOME> In season 2006 I had some engine trouble and no chance to earn eny championship points so I used the races for testing the car and tire pressures. Zandvort race: The main difference between race I and race II was trouble with the clutch. At the first race the clutch passed away during the instalation lap and after half distance of the first lap I was stuck in 3rd and could only shift with OD......the astounding thing is....that my laptimes of race I and II are only 0.2sec in difference......so without the clutch I was just a little slower. >From my point of view the tire pressure made the difference: I started the first race with 22.5 psi cold all around. The car felt very twitchy and not solid and I had the impression that I'm close to the edge to leave the tracklane on every corner. http://www.tr-competition.de/pics/video/tc-2006-74-zandvoort-1.wmv At race II I had 28.5 PSI all around. The car was very solid and easy to drive but the laptimes went down during the race....2 fast laps....then I was sliding. http://www.tr-competition.de/pics/video/tc-2006-74-zandvoort-2.wmv To settle the astounding result of tire pressures I went up with the pressure for the next event. We had a wet practise.....I went in with rain tires and a cold pressure of 30 PSI which made the car nervous. I corrected the pressure in the pits down to 25.5 which made the car pleasant to drive and gave me a 5th position on the grid. http://www.tr4-racing.de/download/tc-2006-74-saisonfin-freepractise.wmv http://www.tr4-racing.de/download/practise.wmv The race I was dry and I went in with 31.5 cold. It was okay but the car broke away on the rear very easy. No pleasure to drive. http://www.tr-competition.de/pics/video/tc-2006-74-saisonfin-1.wmv At race II I installed 34.5 to have it more clear. 2 fast laps, spin at lap 3 and then times went down and down. http://www.tr-competition.de/pics/video/tc-2006-74-saisonfin-2.wmv So I will use in future races pressures in the range of 25.5 at front and 22.5-24 at rear. Cheers Chris From jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au Tue Oct 23 01:04:14 2007 From: jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au (Jim Cun) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR2 Turbo Message-ID: <305946.41308.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> To all who have been following the progress of the TR2 Turbo we now have the final result! After making many more modifications the dyno resultes are 221 rear wheel horse power at 6200 RPM which we are very pleased with. Flywheel horse power depends on a lot of factors it could be anywhere from 270 to 290 HP. Regards Jim Sick of deleting your inbox? Yahoo!7 Mail has free unlimited storage. http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/unlimitedstorage.html From kaskas at cox.net Tue Oct 23 08:53:03 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:53:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms Message-ID: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> Thanks you to all for inquires on our situation here in Oceanside. So far everything is okay and the big fires are south of us. Over 225,000 FAMILIES have been told to get out of the area but the roads are jammed of course. The air is full of ash and smoke but so far okay. From chasgee at aol.com Tue Oct 23 10:48:25 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:48:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms In-Reply-To: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> References: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <8C9E3ABAA49450D-B88-CF0@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> As Kas stated, its pretty smoky but that's about it right now.? Since I'm downwind of Kas a couple of miles, if he's OK, I'm OK.? We're keeping our fingers crossed. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kas Kastner To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 7:53 am Subject: [Fot] Fire storms Thanks you to all for inquires on our situation here in Oceanside. So far everything is okay and the big fires are south of us. Over 225,000 FAMILIES have been told to get out of the area but the roads are jammed of course. The air is full of ash and smoke but so far okay. chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From koblinger at verizon.net Tue Oct 23 11:28:55 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:28:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Fire storms Message-ID: <32118675.2527111193160535626.JavaMail.root@vms075.mailsrvcs.net> My Dad lives in Ocean Hills and he says the same, smokey but nothing threatening. My wife's Mom had to evacuate Fallbrook yesterday so we're on pins and needles about that. Hope everyone else is safe. Kurt O. >From: chasgee at aol.com >Date: 2007/10/23 Tue AM 11:48:25 CDT >To: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Fot] Fire storms >As Kas stated, its pretty smoky but that's about it right now.? Since I'm downwind of Kas a couple of miles, if he's OK, I'm OK.? We're keeping our fingers crossed. > >Chuck > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kas Kastner >To: fot at autox.team.net >Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 7:53 am >Subject: [Fot] Fire storms > > > >Thanks you to all for inquires on our situation here in Oceanside. So far >everything is okay and the big fires are south of us. Over 225,000 FAMILIES >have been told to get out of the area but the roads are jammed of course. The >air is full of ash and smoke but so far okay. >chasgee at aol.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > >________________________________________________________________________ >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Tue Oct 23 11:56:39 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:56:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms In-Reply-To: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> References: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <20071023180015.NJDL22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> My Dad (retired Army Aviator) works at Camp Pendleton and my Uncle Larry (retired first career as an Air Force C-141 Crew Chief) recently retired for the second time from Scripps Institute of Oceanography as their Climatologist. Here is a note that Larry just sent out to family about the status in San Diego. Interesting note about the Fire "departments" stonewalling Military help. My Cousin Joe is a Fire Fighter over there and a step brother here in AZ is a fire fighter - both with a local City and with the National Guard (scheduled to go to Iraq in the Spring) ---------------------------- Everyone appears to be OK here in San Diego. So far, the fires do not appear to be threatening to either Don's apartment in the North Park area (I'm not sure of its exact geographic nomenclature) or our house here in Clairemont. I am told that Lori (and Erin?) were successfully evacuated, with animals, to El Cajon yesterday. We have not spoken with her directly. We're not sure where Joe is right now, but CALFire usually has his crew stay on duty in Temecula to provide fire suppression there while other Temecula fire fighting assets (also known as Riverside County Fire Dept and California Fire (CALFire)) are sent out of town for mutual aid. I don't know if this is his current status. In any case, Temecula does not appear to be threatened at this time. The governor has approved the use of military helicopters to assist in the fire suppression effort. This is required by state law. During the Cedars fire (four years ago), then Gov Gray Davis refused to let them assist. However, the local fire agencies are still trying to limit their impact. The military crews are ready to take off, but the local fire officials won't let them. They say they can't fly without a local fire fighter on board as an observer to coordinate drops. And they are "trying to locate" fire fighters for this role. Of course, the National Guard, Marine Corps, and the Navy all insist the choppers already have an qualified observer on board. They are called crew chiefs. And they are trained to coordinate all kinds of air drops. They do it all the time in training, in Iraq, and in Afghanistan. Not good enough, according to the fire officials. Speculation is that this has everything to do with union politics and little to do with reality. All of the military's fire fighting C-130s (all National Guard, I believe) are on their way to Southern California. They were in mission preplanning well before their use was authorized. The general in charge of them (at the National Guard Bureau?) stated that, if authorization was not received by the time the were ready to take off, that he had already scheduled a "training flight" for them that would take them to SoCal. Military can-do. Most of the other federal fire fighting aircraft are either here or on their way. The news says there are about 14 aircraft (fixed wing and rotor wing) currently making drops. More later. Larry ------------------------------------- From tsheach at pba.co.uk Tue Oct 23 12:05:59 2007 From: tsheach at pba.co.uk (tr4.tony@virgin.net) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:05:59 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms Message-ID: Glad you're all well ......! Keep smiling. I'm sending this from the roadside near London .... I've a different sort of smoke to deal with. Just had my a type od unit explode at 5000 rpm and about 100 mph .... Cockpit full of smoke to steer with ........ A good reason to drive with the window down when you're wearing a hardtop !Still picking the bits out of my left leg as I wait for the recovery truck. And I only too it to work to make me smile ...... Dont you just love TR4's ! I'm still hoping to do the Rally of the Tests next week ..... Maybe its time for a few days of work ! And hope the smell clears...... Stay safe .... ! Hope this lightens the gloom. Tony -----Original Message----- From: koblinger at verizon.net To: chasgee at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Sent: 23/10/07 18:28 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fire storms My Dad lives in Ocean Hills and he says the same, smokey but nothing threatening. My wife's Mom had to evacuate Fallbrook yesterday so we're on pins and needles about that. Hope everyone else is safe. Kurt O. >From: chasgee at aol.com >Date: 2007/10/23 Tue AM 11:48:25 CDT >To: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Fot] Fire storms >As Kas stated, its pretty smoky but that's about it right now.? Since I'm downwind of Kas a couple of miles, if he's OK, I'm OK.? We're keeping our fingers crossed. > >Chuck > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kas Kastner >To: fot at autox.team.net >Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 7:53 am >Subject: [Fot] Fire storms > > > >Thanks you to all for inquires on our situation here in Oceanside. So far >everything is okay and the big fires are south of us. Over 225,000 FAMILIES >have been told to get out of the area but the roads are jammed of course. The From dave at microworks.net Tue Oct 23 12:05:57 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:05:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Problem with cooling fuel Message-ID: <20071023180933.INCM1378.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Well scratch the idea of cooling our fuel to the point that it would make any real difference. When I answered our "race directors" question about how my pit strategy was coming and I responded with "...Going to see if we can come up with a way (inspired by Williams and BMW - hehe...) to make the distance without refueling..." He came back with... "...Too cold and the castor oil will separate out of your gas. It's happened to me at Big Willow in January and Daytona in December! Don't make me get Max Mosely in here!..." HeHeHe.... Back to the drawing board... From klynch_6 at msn.com Tue Oct 23 13:57:14 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:57:14 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms References: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> <20071023180015.NJDL22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: I've just heard units from Peterson AFB down in the 'Springs' are on their way as their aircraft are fitted with fire suppression systems. Also a group out of Wyoming are scheduled for a similar assist. Kevin RMVR ----- Original Message ----- From: David W. Riddle To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Fire storms My Dad (retired Army Aviator) works at Camp Pendleton and my Uncle Larry (retired first career as an Air Force C-141 Crew Chief) recently retired for the second time from Scripps Institute of Oceanography as their Climatologist. Here is a note that Larry just sent out to family about the status in San Diego. Interesting note about the Fire "departments" stonewalling Military help. My Cousin Joe is a Fire Fighter over there and a step brother here in AZ is a fire fighter - both with a local City and with the National Guard (scheduled to go to Iraq in the Spring) ---------------------------- Everyone appears to be OK here in San Diego. So far, the fires do not appear to be threatening to either Don's apartment in the North Park area (I'm not sure of its exact geographic nomenclature) or our house here in Clairemont. I am told that Lori (and Erin?) were successfully evacuated, with animals, to El Cajon yesterday. We have not spoken with her directly. We're not sure where Joe is right now, but CALFire usually has his crew stay on duty in Temecula to provide fire suppression there while other Temecula fire fighting assets (also known as Riverside County Fire Dept and California Fire (CALFire)) are sent out of town for mutual aid. I don't know if this is his current status. In any case, Temecula does not appear to be threatened at this time. The governor has approved the use of military helicopters to assist in the fire suppression effort. This is required by state law. During the Cedars fire (four years ago), then Gov Gray Davis refused to let them assist. However, the local fire agencies are still trying to limit their impact. The military crews are ready to take off, but the local fire officials won't let them. They say they can't fly without a local fire fighter on board as an observer to coordinate drops. And they are "trying to locate" fire fighters for this role. Of course, the National Guard, Marine Corps, and the Navy all insist the choppers already have an qualified observer on board. They are called crew chiefs. And they are trained to coordinate all kinds of air drops. They do it all the time in training, in Iraq, and in Afghanistan. Not good enough, according to the fire officials. Speculation is that this has everything to do with union politics and little to do with reality. All of the military's fire fighting C-130s (all National Guard, I believe) are on their way to Southern California. They were in mission preplanning well before their use was authorized. The general in charge of them (at the National Guard Bureau?) stated that, if authorization was not received by the time the were ready to take off, that he had already scheduled a "training flight" for them that would take them to SoCal. Military can-do. Most of the other federal fire fighting aircraft are either here or on their way. The news says there are about 14 aircraft (fixed wing and rotor wing) currently making drops. More later. Larry ------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Tue Oct 23 14:01:09 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:01:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Problem with cooling fuel In-Reply-To: <34739.17780.qm@web57613.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <20071023180933.INCM1378.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <34739.17780.qm@web57613.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20071023201454.MGYZ1433.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> That's why i signed off with "Back to the drawing board..." I would think that a kart without suspension moving around the track "should" be shaking the fuel tank sufficiently to keep the fuel mixed as long as the temp is not so cold as to make it "slush". Rules don't allow for oil injection - unlike on my SCCA Formula 500 car where it is required. At 12:45 PM 10/23/2007, you wrote: >Dave: > >If Alexander G. Bell had given up the first time he didn't get a >response to, "Can you hear me now" we wouldn't have the Internet >today. I'm sure there is a method around this dilemma, such as >installing a mixer to keep the oil and gas mixed, or oil injection >to the cylinder, or being the first person to have a race kart >powered by a diesel motor. It's nice to dream. >[] > > >Hope father and son have fun. > >Ernie > >"David W. Riddle" wrote: > >"...Too cold and the castor oil will separate out of your gas. It's >happened to me at Big Willow in January and Daytona in December! >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Tue Oct 23 14:35:56 2007 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:35:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071023153556.kucylqfgisco4scg@secure.uwalumni.com> Let's see if I've got this right: An exploded OD, a cockpit full of smoke, a disabled TR and, meanwhile, Tony sits by the roadside writing up the event for the benefit of the FOT email list, whilst picking metal bits out of his leg, waiting for the recovery truck and planning for next week's Rally. This is certainly the FOT communique of the year! Well done sir! Jim Hill From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 23 18:59:38 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:59:38 EDT Subject: [Fot] Fire storms Message-ID: In a message dated 10/23/2007 11:48:50 AM Central Daylight Time, chasgee at aol.com writes: > As Kas stated, its pretty smoky but that's about it right now.? Since I'm > downwind of Kas a couple of miles, if he's OK, I'm OK.? We're keeping our > fingers crossed. > > Chuck > > I just spent the day with some folks from SoCal....one is in no danger, but the smoke is so bad he is living in hotel. From gasket.works at verizon.net Tue Oct 23 19:09:28 2007 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Gasket Works USA) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:09:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] fire quenching Message-ID: <29833139.848471193188168978.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net> > From my limited perspective the way to put out a fire is remove the oxygen and reduce the heat. What about a limited aerial device that knocks "out the air" from a fire followed up immediately by a quenching water (or some such) drop to prevent re-ignition... granted the pressure wave can destroy as well but, in areas that are inaccessable ....who cares. The animals likely have already scampered away. mordy M.N.Dunst Gasket Works USA, LLC gmt-8 Pacific time 626.358.1616 voice 626.628.3777 fax From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 23 19:48:47 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:48:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Fire storms... now Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. Message-ID: In a message dated 10/23/2007 8:45:50 PM Central Daylight Time, N197TR4 writes: > > Tony's message has to be a kind of classic in our World of Triumphs. > > He should also be one of our Honored Guests at Watkins Glen. > > I am glad he is not upside down and saying, "well that sucks", like the > other Tony did while hanging from his harness at the Carousel. > > Return-path: From: N197TR4 at cs.com Full-name: N197TR4 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:45:50 EDT Subject: Fire storms... now Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. To: tsheach at pba.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 6.0 for Windows XP sub 50 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Tony's message has to be a kind of classic in our World of Triumphs. He should also be one of our Honored Guests at Watkins Glen. I am glad he is not upside down and saying, "well that sucks", like the other Tony did while hanging from his harness at the Carousel. > I'm sending this from the roadside near London .... I've a different sort of > smoke to deal with. Just had my a type od unit explode at 5000 rpm and about > 100 mph .... Cockpit full of smoke to steer with ........ A good reason to > drive with the window down when you're wearing a hardtop !Still picking the > bits out of my left leg as I wait for the recovery truck. And I only too it > to > work to make me smile ...... Dont you just love TR4's ! > > From trmarty at hotmail.com Tue Oct 23 19:54:53 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:54:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Triumph roll bar / cage concepts Message-ID: Hi folks. I am contemplating the addition of real rollover protection in the TR6 over the upcoming winter. As I have looked at you folk's cars over the years I have seen some different approaches to bar/cage fabrication. I should have been taking pictures but I didn't. Any chance you have some digital pictures of your bars/cages you could email me to get the thought process rolling? Thanks, Marty Sukey _________________________________________________________________ Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailne ws From fasttrs at mindspring.com Tue Oct 23 20:45:29 2007 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 22:45:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] SCCA Prodfest at VIR Message-ID: <003201c815e7$f07ad6b0$6401a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> Well it looks like I have everything on the car sorted out.(Yeah right!) We will be headed to VIR this weekend. The Prodfest is like the runoff's for all the SCCA production class cars and has been growing every year. We had 35 cars last year and so far have over 55 cars entered this year. There will be 3 past and present SCCA national champions there. Will there be any other FOT's there? Mike Munson From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 23 21:15:24 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:15:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Triumph roll bar / cage concepts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For what it's worth, here's a photo of Peyote's cage. Somewhere I have photos with the body off. It's actually a very good design and if you can get away with it would give you an incredibly stiff car. All the tubing is .060, which is not a good thing. It's fortunate that I never put it on it's lid, because I'm not sure the bar would have held. The new version will be .095 on the main hoop and hoop supports as well as the driver intrusion bar, and the rest will be . 060. It will weigh about the same because I'm using slightly smaller diameter tubing. On Oct 23, 2007, at 6:54 PM, marty sukey wrote: > Hi folks. I am contemplating the addition of real rollover > protection in the [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type multipart/appledouble] > TR6 over the upcoming winter. As I have looked at you folk's cars > over the > years I have seen some different approaches to bar/cage > fabrication. I should > have been taking pictures but I didn't. Any chance you have some > digital > pictures of your bars/cages you could email me to get the thought > process > rolling? > > Thanks, > Marty Sukey > > _________________________________________________________________ > Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live > OneCare! > http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx? > s_cid=wl_hotmailne > ws > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Oct 24 04:17:47 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 06:17:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] Classic Motorsports magazine wall calendar Message-ID: Sorry about the commercial message, but heck, I am a good citizen of the board and supporter of all things Triumph. Plus, we are giivng away calendars again. This year we have a TR3 (not mine) on the calendar. To check it out go to the website below. Thanks. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 Here's the offical mumbo jumbo... Free 2008 wall calendar from Classic Motorsports. Featuring some of the coolest cars and best photography from Classic Motorsports magazine, this 2008 calendar is available free to all Classic Motorsports subscribers. Chock-full of a year's worth of eye candy for your office or garage this high quality calendar measures a full 10" x 17" when open. Each month features a brilliant, full-color photo of one of your favorite classic cars, including favorites from MG, Triumph, Alfa Romeo and Porsche, along with some more unusual picks, like the Lang-Cooper vintage racer, the Isetta microcar and the "Hollywood" Sunbeam Tiger. The 2008 Classic Motorsports calendar is only available for free until Nov 13th. To see if your favorite car is on this calendar or to make sure you get a copy please visit http://classicmotorsports.net/calendar/ Not ready to subscribe? You can still purchase this calendar from the Classic Motorsports Store at https://ssl.grmotorsports.com/grm-store.php for a limited time. And if you would like to order bulk copies for your club, give us a call at 888-676-9747 for special pricing. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From tsheach at pba.co.uk Wed Oct 24 06:53:12 2007 From: tsheach at pba.co.uk (tr4.tony@virgin.net) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:53:12 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Fire storms... now Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. Message-ID: Aw shucks ...... Now you're embarassing me ....... I was just killing time until the low loader arrived to scoop me up and also trying to keep my oily fingers warm ....! But I do hope to see you all at the Glen. As a little footnote: the damage to the gearbox is huge, propshaft shredded, overdrive unit was spread over about 200 m of her majesty's highway around a uniforn trail of new millers gearbox oil ..... But my laptop bag caught most of the big bits (thanks DELL ..... I knew if was expensive for a reason) and the fibreglass reinforced tunnel, speedo cable a old seatbelt that I glued inside it held the rest in place until I got out of hyperspace ..... So I'd recommend a prop / output shaft catcher to any one. Now using 3VC again on ROTT next week so listen for the howls of protest as the old girl does her thing and (hopefully) brings home a bootful of trophies for the third year in succession. Regards and go steady. Tony -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: 24/10/07 02:48 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Fire storms... now Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. In a message dated 10/23/2007 8:45:50 PM Central Daylight Time, N197TR4 writes: > > Tony's message has to be a kind of classic in our World of Triumphs. > > He should also be one of our Honored Guests at Watkins Glen. > > I am glad he is not upside down and saying, "well that sucks", like the > other Tony did while hanging from his harness at the Carousel. > > Return-path: From: N197TR4 at cs.com Full-name: N197TR4 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:45:50 EDT Subject: Fire storms... now Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. To: tsheach at pba.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 6.0 for Windows XP sub 50 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 24 06:58:15 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 08:58:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend Message-ID: let us know how you and 3VC do.... > Aw shucks ...... Now you're embarassing me ....... I was just killing time > until the low loader arrived to scoop me up and also trying to keep my oily > fingers warm ....! But I do hope to see you all at the Glen. > > As a little footnote: the damage to the gearbox is huge, propshaft shredded, > overdrive unit was spread over about 200 m of her majesty's highway around a > uniforn trail of new millers gearbox oil ..... But my laptop bag caught most > of the big bits (thanks DELL ..... I knew if was expensive for a reason) and > the fibreglass reinforced tunnel, speedo cable a old seatbelt that I glued > inside it held the rest in place until I got out of hyperspace ..... So I'd > recommend a prop / output shaft catcher to any one. > > Now using 3VC again on ROTT next week so listen for the howls of protest as > the old girl does her thing and (hopefully) brings home a bootful of trophies > for the third year in succession. > > Regards and go steady. > > Tony > > From TSheach at pba.co.uk Wed Oct 24 07:06:31 2007 From: TSheach at pba.co.uk (Tony Sheach) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:06:31 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBFF9847DB8E446AD5BA723E412305805749544@cbh-srv-exc.PBA.INT> Will do ...... Were starting number 18 of 85 and it's a round of the International FIA Regularity Championship this year, so a top 20 finish would be good going. A repeat performance of our fun last year would be a big result for Rob and I. The sportscar class looks fun though ...... 8 or 9 TR's, all friends to play with ..... Lots of Alfa's, Porsche's and Volvo 122 and 123's in too, so plenty competition on the quick stuff. Kind regards Tony Tony Sheach Partner Peter Brett Associates Caversham Bridge House Waterman Place Reading Berkshire RG1 8DN Tel: +44 (0) 118 950 0761 Fax: +44 (0) 118 959 7498 Mob: +44 (0) 7771 820 730 Web: www.pba.co.uk E: tsheach at pba.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com [mailto:N197TR4 at cs.com] Sent: 24 October 2007 13:58 To: Tony Sheach; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend let us know how you and 3VC do.... Aw shucks ...... Now you're embarassing me ....... I was just killing time until the low loader arrived to scoop me up and also trying to keep my oily fingers warm ....! But I do hope to see you all at the Glen. As a little footnote: the damage to the gearbox is huge, propshaft shredded, overdrive unit was spread over about 200 m of her majesty's highway around a uniforn trail of new millers gearbox oil ..... But my laptop bag caught most of the big bits (thanks DELL ..... I knew if was expensive for a reason) and the fibreglass reinforced tunnel, speedo cable a old seatbelt that I glued inside it held the rest in place until I got out of hyperspace ..... So I'd recommend a prop / output shaft catcher to any one. Now using 3VC again on ROTT next week so listen for the howls of protest as the old girl does her thing and (hopefully) brings home a bootful of trophies for the third year in succession. Regards and go steady. Tony ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl _ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email is used as a convenient medium for rapid data transfer. Any contractual correspondence sent or received by email will not be held to be such unless and until it is received in writing by a Fax or Letter. Likewise file attachments must be treated as uncontrolled documents until issued as hard copy. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this email please notify the author by replying to this email and delete the email. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use or disclose, print or rely on this email. Any OS Data attached to this email is issued in accordance with Licence No. 100017583 under condition that it is used to plot once and not retained on the recipients computer system. The Partnership accepts no liability for the contents of emails unconnected with the affairs of the firm or its clients. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl - www.blackspider.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 24 07:22:14 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:22:14 EDT Subject: [Fot] Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend Message-ID: Thanks Tony. I suspect most of us enjoy these reports. Joe A > Will do ...... Were starting number 18 of 85 and it's a round of the > International FIA Regularity Championship this year, so a top 20 finish > would be good going. A repeat performance of our fun last year would be > a big result for Rob and I. > > The sportscar class looks fun though ...... 8 or 9 TR's, all friends to > play with ..... Lots of Alfa's, Porsche's and Volvo 122 and 123's in > too, so plenty competition on the quick stuff. > > > Kind regards > > Tony > From TSheach at pba.co.uk Wed Oct 24 07:22:09 2007 From: TSheach at pba.co.uk (Tony Sheach) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:22:09 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBFF9847DB8E446AD5BA723E4123058057495BF@cbh-srv-exc.PBA.INT> ** YOU'LL NEED PANDO TO OPEN THIS ATTACHMENT. ** ** Get Pando free here: www.pando.com/download ** Here's one from last year ....... Passed the MGB no long outside the start control, I recall overhauling a Cooper S and something else before the finish ..... Kind regards Tony Tony Sheach Partner Peter Brett Associates Caversham Bridge House Waterman Place Reading Berkshire RG1 8DN Tel: +44 (0) 118 950 0761 Fax: +44 (0) 118 959 7498 Mob: +44 (0) 7771 820 730 Web: www.pba.co.uk E: tsheach at pba.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com [mailto:N197TR4 at cs.com] Sent: 24 October 2007 13:58 To: Tony Sheach; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend let us know how you and 3VC do.... Aw shucks ...... Now you're embarassing me ....... I was just killing time until the low loader arrived to scoop me up and also trying to keep my oily fingers warm ....! But I do hope to see you all at the Glen. As a little footnote: the damage to the gearbox is huge, propshaft shredded, overdrive unit was spread over about 200 m of her majesty's highway around a uniforn trail of new millers gearbox oil ..... But my laptop bag caught most of the big bits (thanks DELL ..... I knew if was expensive for a reason) and the fibreglass reinforced tunnel, speedo cable a old seatbelt that I glued inside it held the rest in place until I got out of hyperspace ..... So I'd recommend a prop / output shaft catcher to any one. Now using 3VC again on ROTT next week so listen for the howls of protest as the old girl does her thing and (hopefully) brings home a bootful of trophies for the third year in succession. Regards and go steady. Tony ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl < http://www.blackspider.com/> _ Pando is free software that lets you email large files and folders, up to 1GB, with your existing email account. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email is used as a convenient medium for rapid data transfer. Any contractual correspondence sent or received by email will not be held to be such unless and until it is received in writing by a Fax or Letter. Likewise file attachments must be treated as uncontrolled documents until issued as hard copy. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this email please notify the author by replying to this email and delete the email. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use or disclose, print or rely on this email. Any OS Data attached to this email is issued in accordance with Licence No. 100017583 under condition that it is used to plot once and not retained on the recipients computer system. The Partnership accepts no liability for the contents of emails unconnected with the affairs of the firm or its clients. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl - www.blackspider.com [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of 19-RT6_1351.jpg.pando] From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 24 08:17:27 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:17:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 roll cage Message-ID: Marty Sukey asked: > Any chance you have some digital > pictures of your bars/cages you could email me to get the thought process > rolling? Marty, Look at http://hottr6.blogspot.com/, specifically the posts for Jan-May 2006. Click on the pictures for a larger view. This cage would not pass inspection for dedicated racers because the front hoop is not high enough, but it will work for auto-X and hill climbs and track days. Fitting the front hoop behind the heater box (so I could stay toasty on cold days) was not as hard as it looks, but did require perseverance. Defrosting the windshield is not as efficient as with stock and I am still working on fabricating a fix. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From SpiwakD at aol.com Wed Oct 24 13:05:34 2007 From: SpiwakD at aol.com (SpiwakD at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:05:34 EDT Subject: [Fot] Rick Rock please email spiwakd@aol.com Message-ID: ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net Wed Oct 24 15:11:09 2007 From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR3 steering box Message-ID: <380-220071032421119315@earthlink.net> I am looking for a steering box assembly for a TR3 with the split column that is very good or excellent condition . Would appreciate any input on this matter...thanks Chip U K MOTORSPORTS tr6racer21 at earthlink.net From Group44TR7 at aol.com Wed Oct 24 15:52:21 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:52:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] Jerry Barker Please Contact Me Offline Message-ID: Please contact me with telephone number. Regards, Cary ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From jibjib at att.net Wed Oct 24 19:02:57 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:02:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Classic Motorsports magazine wall calendar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <012201c816a2$c90e9bf0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Whoa, look at this wasted blatant capitalism. Tim, I think we all already subscribe. I know I am looking forward to both calendars, although the CM calendar gets the place of honor. Jack (known as Jack on your forums) -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 3:18 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Classic Motorsports magazine wall calendar Sorry about the commercial message, but heck, I am a good citizen of the board and supporter of all things Triumph. Plus, we are giivng away calendars again. This year we have a TR3 (not mine) on the calendar. To check it out go to the website below. Thanks. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 Here's the offical mumbo jumbo... Free 2008 wall calendar from Classic Motorsports. Featuring some of the coolest cars and best photography from Classic Motorsports magazine, this 2008 calendar is available free to all Classic Motorsports subscribers. Chock-full of a year's worth of eye candy for your office or garage this high quality calendar measures a full 10" x 17" when open. Each month features a brilliant, full-color photo of one of your favorite classic cars, including favorites from MG, Triumph, Alfa Romeo and Porsche, along with some more unusual picks, like the Lang-Cooper vintage racer, the Isetta microcar and the "Hollywood" Sunbeam Tiger. The 2008 Classic Motorsports calendar is only available for free until Nov 13th. To see if your favorite car is on this calendar or to make sure you get a copy please visit http://classicmotorsports.net/calendar/ Not ready to subscribe? You can still purchase this calendar from the Classic Motorsports Store at https://ssl.grmotorsports.com/grm-store.php for a limited time. And if you would like to order bulk copies for your club, give us a call at 888-676-9747 for special pricing. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com jibjib at att.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gasket.works at gte.net Wed Oct 24 23:07:48 2007 From: gasket.works at gte.net (res00cbl) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:07:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] a few new uploads... References: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20071020013257.VGFV13814.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <00c501c812c8$9ec68a70$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <000301c816c4$fd1bfc90$2502a8c0@SPARTAN113> http://fot-racing.com/eventphoto/index.html Winner at the Miller event Mr. Chuck Gee. http://fot-racing.com/ cool photo... drool. M. Dunst Gasket Works USA, llC 626.358.1616 phone 626.628.3777 facsimile gmt -8 Pacific From gasket.works at gte.net Wed Oct 24 23:14:14 2007 From: gasket.works at gte.net (Mordy Dunst/Gasket Works) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:14:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] a few new uploads... References: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20071020013257.VGFV13814.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <00c501c812c8$9ec68a70$0a10c548@RW> <000301c816c4$fd1bfc90$2502a8c0@SPARTAN113> Message-ID: <000c01c816c5$e35c3b20$2502a8c0@SPARTAN113> http://fot-racing.com/eventphoto/index.html Winner at the Miller event Mr. Chuck Gee. http://fot-racing.com/ cool photo... drool. M. Dunst Gasket Works USA, llC 626.358.1616 phone 626.628.3777 facsimile gmt -8 Pacific From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 25 05:23:57 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:23:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] a few new uploads... Message-ID: Terrific! Lot of memories through the whole link..... All been worthwhile. More to come. From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 25 08:51:23 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:51:23 EDT Subject: [Fot] Paging Joe Guinan.... Message-ID: Joe, Steve Smith is looking for you and has important information for you. I also have something for you, too. Joe A From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 25 12:47:00 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:47:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] paging Steve Benford Message-ID: I need a response from him or his email address. Thanks, Joe A From Group44TR7 at aol.com Fri Oct 26 10:58:22 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:58:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Test Message-ID: Have not received FOT emails since early on 10/25. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Fri Oct 26 13:40:50 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:40:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Do tire temperatures tell most of the tire pressure story? Message-ID: <000001c81808$1d4ade70$171a694c@computer> I am dealing with autocross temps and pressures but imagine it would be similar for the race course. On my TR6, I have adjusted alignment to where I have my tire temperatures pretty uniform (within 5 - 7 degrees) across each tire. If I am running 31 lbs front and 29 lbs rear and my tire temperatures are 12 to 15 degrees cooler in the back of the car than the front, would that indicate that I could use less pressure in the rear (as long as the tires don't roll over). In other words, is uniform tire temperature all the way around optimum? Thanks guys, Jim Hearn Sacramento, CA Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From RYoung at navcomtech.com Fri Oct 26 14:41:10 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:41:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Do tire temperatures tell most of the tire pressure story? In-Reply-To: <000001c81808$1d4ade70$171a694c@computer> References: <000001c81808$1d4ade70$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: > In other words, is uniform tire > temperature all the way around optimum? Jim, I'm certainly no expert, and I'm very interested in what others have to say on this subject. But my instinct is that I wouldn't expect temperatures to be the same front/rear, due to differing conditions (especially more weight up front). Randall fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From spitlist at cox.net Fri Oct 26 15:19:22 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:19:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Do tire temperatures tell most of the tire pressure story? References: <000001c81808$1d4ade70$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <005201c81815$e122e740$2d02a8c0@Belkin> Jim, A lot of it is determined by the tires themselves. When I was doing heavy SCCA autocross on slicks, I was running pressures around 20 psi all around. You will know if the pressure is incorrect if you are getting a variance of temperature across the tread. If the temps are higher on the inside than on the outside, reduce the pressuer until it is even. Conversely, if you are getting higher temps on the edges, you shoule raise the pressure. Street tires are a bit dirrerent in that unless you are running higher than normal pressures, you might get rolling of the edges. So check the wear on the sidewalls and if it is obvious that the tires are rolling over, you will have to raise the pressure to compensate even if your temperature readings say otherwise. One other thing that will cause temperature variences back to front is how the car is working. If you are throwing it heavily into turns it will cause therears to slide and increase the temp. Front tires work more naturally in turns than rears so higher temps are likely. I hope this helps. Joe C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:40 PM Subject: [Fot] Do tire temperatures tell most of the tire pressure story? > I am dealing with autocross temps and pressures but imagine it would be > similar for the race course. On my TR6, I have adjusted alignment to where > I have my tire temperatures pretty uniform (within 5 - 7 degrees) across > each tire. If I am running 31 lbs front and 29 lbs rear and my tire > temperatures are 12 to 15 degrees cooler in the back of the car than the > front, would that indicate that I could use less pressure in the rear (as > long as the tires don't roll over). In other words, is uniform tire > temperature all the way around optimum? > > Thanks guys, > > Jim Hearn > Sacramento, CA > Two '74 TR6s > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spreiss at verizon.net Fri Oct 26 00:54:25 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:54:25 +1100 Subject: [Fot] head selection. Message-ID: <002a01c8179d$0c60bd70$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> FOT I am preparing to build a high performance engine for use in my 56 TR3. Not a fully tweaked one, but one that I can take to drivers school in the spring and begin to campaign in vintage events. (Plans include updating to modified TR4 front suspension and TR6 brakes as well.) I have purchased a bare block and crank sourced from a TR4A to serve as the basis for the engine build. Question is, what is the preferred head for my application? I plan to do some mild porting and use the larger than stock valves. I have a set of the short-throated HS6s and a 4A intake manifold I'm hoping to use. Does anyone know if this will result in a hood clearance issue? I would like to make an intake plenum with ducted remote filter, though I suspect this would not be allowed by most vintage racing sanctioning bodies. Additional comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks! Steve Preiss From Gt6steve at aol.com Fri Oct 26 18:36:06 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:36:06 EDT Subject: [Fot] SoCal fires diminishing? Message-ID: Sorry to annoy our eastern brethren, This missive is for the Western FOT. Anybody heard from Allen and Alita? How 'bout Mizutani? I think he's OK. Is everybody OK? Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Oct 26 20:09:32 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:09:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] SoCal fires diminishing? References: Message-ID: <006a01c8183e$6a12b8f0$0200a8c0@Desktop> You guys just keep on talking......that's keeping us up to date to Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 8:36 PM Subject: [Fot] SoCal fires diminishing? > Sorry to annoy our eastern brethren, This missive is for the Western FOT. > > Anybody heard from Allen and Alita? How 'bout Mizutani? I think he's OK. > Is everybody OK? Steve > > > ************************************** > See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Fri Oct 26 21:30:03 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 21:30:03 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4722B0BB.5030809@bradakis.com> A LOT of the AOL subscribers on my lists are not getting any mail, it is getting bounced back. I'm hoping I can find some tech folks at AOL with more than 3 working brain cells so the problem can get resolved as soon as possible. mjb. From spitlist at cox.net Fri Oct 26 21:35:30 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:35:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Test In-Reply-To: <4722B0BB.5030809@bradakis.com> References: <4722B0BB.5030809@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <000e01c8184a$6c500850$2202a8c0@newcomputer> I saw an article in yesterday's Tucson paper that stated that AOL (which has a major facility here) is laying off a number of people. That reduces your chances of finding anyone that meets your requirements. Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J. Bradakis Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 8:30 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Test A LOT of the AOL subscribers on my lists are not getting any mail, it is getting bounced back. I'm hoping I can find some tech folks at AOL with more than 3 working brain cells so the problem can get resolved as soon as possible. mjb. spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sat Oct 27 07:07:02 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 08:07:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Burned out TR6's , Chris Bain and Victoria Fox Message-ID: <002c01c8189a$448d72d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> A local clubmember shared this with me. I am not sure if the picture of the cars destroyed and the people found deceased, Chris Bain and Victoria Fox, are connected. This article is from yesterday's NY Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/us/26dead.html?ref=todayspaper Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sat Oct 27 08:08:20 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:08:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] head selection. In-Reply-To: <002a01c8179d$0c60bd70$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> References: <002a01c8179d$0c60bd70$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: <200710271406.l9RE6Nq0490883@ns3.geneseo.net> At 01:54 AM 10/26/2007, you wrote: >FOT >I am preparing to build a high performance engine for use in my 56 TR3. Not a >fully tweaked one, but one that I can take to drivers school in the spring and >begin to campaign in vintage events. (Plans include updating to modified TR4 >front suspension and TR6 brakes as well.) >I have purchased a bare block and crank sourced from a TR4A to serve as the >basis for the engine build. Question is, what is the preferred head for my >application? I plan to do some mild porting and use the larger than stock >valves. The heads are virtually identical with the exception of the intake port diameter at the manifold face of the head. Both new and old heads flow about the same on the flow bench, despite the common general opinion that the later small port head flows better. Even with significant porting work, the big port head and small port head can flow about the same. However, you should use a head late enough that it has a flat on the bottom side of the front water outlet to clear the water pump housing. The really early heads require a LOT of grinding there. > I have a set of the short-throated HS6s and a 4A intake manifold I'm >hoping to use. Does anyone know if this will result in a hood clearance issue? This combination does not craeate a hood interference. Since the carbs are shorter and the manifold longer, the carbs end up in the same place. >I would like to make an intake plenum with ducted remote filter, though I >suspect this would not be allowed by most vintage racing sanctioning bodies. Sanctioning bodies vary in their view of this. >Additional comments or suggestions would be appreciated. >Thanks! >Steve Preiss Good luck with your project! >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From Gt6steve at aol.com Sat Oct 27 08:55:29 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:55:29 EDT Subject: [Fot] What color's your chassis? Message-ID: Opinions solicited...For the racer, do you like the frame black, body color or machinery gray? I think gray is common on formula cars to expose cracks? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From Fubog1 at aol.com Sat Oct 27 09:18:39 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:18:39 EDT Subject: [Fot] What color's your chassis? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/27/2007 10:55:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Gt6steve at aol.com writes: I think gray is common on formula cars to expose cracks? ...in a perfect world EVERYTHING would be machinery gray! g. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sat Oct 27 10:05:01 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:05:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Would your evac plans involve the triumph Message-ID: <000801c818b3$21c79640$0501000a@Chowdown> If, let's say your home was under threat of fire, which as a CA resident I did consider at one point or another, would you make sure to get the car onto the trailer and take it with you? From S.Janzen at comcast.net Sat Oct 27 10:21:41 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:21:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Would your evac plans involve the triumph References: <000801c818b3$21c79640$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <004101c818b5$7578d720$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Funny, looking at those photos of people camped out at the stadium, my thought was that I would take my trailer and live in it. However, given enough time, I'd probably load in the car and then unload it when I got to somewhere to camp out. Others in my household might have different opinions about what to load in the trailer from the house though. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 12:05 PM Subject: [Fot] Would your evac plans involve the triumph > If, let's say your home was under threat of fire, which as a CA resident I > did > consider at one point or another, would you make sure to get the car onto > the > trailer and take it with you? > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jmwagner at greenheart.com Sat Oct 27 12:10:25 2007 From: jmwagner at greenheart.com (Justin Wagner) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:10:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Passing this along - "Used Camshaft for TR6 and TR250 S2 Kastner $50" Message-ID: <47237F11.50802@greenheart.com> http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/pts/460811836.html Reply to: sale-460811836 at craigslist.org Date: 2007-10-26, 5:42PM PDT Two Original Fuel Pumps with Lever [TR6].$25.Triumph Badge for TR250 trunk lid,unused,$30 TR3 Speedo and Tach $50 each...TR3 Original Fan Assembly $35..Used Camshaft for TR6 and TR250 S2 Kastner $50 * Location: Tujunga CA * it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests PostingID: 460811836 From jfrymark at aol.com Sat Oct 27 12:29:16 2007 From: jfrymark at aol.com (John Frymark) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:29:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racecar evacuation Message-ID: <527083C8-C784-4CB1-A94E-28F78DCA3970@aol.com> My thoughts: Insure the car for a declared value needed to buy a replacement. In the event of fire, grab all the spares and pit equipment that won't tolerate "heat treating". You will never get fair reimbursement for these things John Frymark PS. Alan Mitzutani is OK. From tr4.tony at virgin.net Sat Oct 27 12:42:08 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:42:08 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Racecar evacuation References: <527083C8-C784-4CB1-A94E-28F78DCA3970@aol.com> Message-ID: <001401c818c9$14b330c0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> any more from Kas ? all ok with you ? rgds Tony ps ..... now prepping 2nd entry for ROTT .....we also have 3 blue TR4's entering as a team ..... suggestions for names ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frymark" To: "steve Belfer" ; "Steve Smith" Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 7:29 PM Subject: [Fot] Racecar evacuation > My thoughts: Insure the car for a declared value needed to buy a > replacement. In the event of fire, grab all the spares and pit > equipment that won't tolerate "heat treating". You will never get > fair reimbursement for these things > > John Frymark > > PS. Alan Mitzutani is OK. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > tr4.tony at virgin.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chasgee at aol.com Sat Oct 27 13:18:49 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:18:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] SoCal fires diminishing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9E6E55638A69C-B58-73@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> Everyone is fine.? Allen and Aleta can't get back to their house until Sunday or Monday, but they do have a house to get back to. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 5:36 pm Subject: [Fot] SoCal fires diminishing? Sorry to annoy our eastern brethren, This missive is for the Western FOT. Anybody heard from Allen and Alita? How 'bout Mizutani? I think he's OK. Is everybody OK? Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From kaskas at cox.net Sat Oct 27 13:32:53 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:32:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racecar evacuation References: <527083C8-C784-4CB1-A94E-28F78DCA3970@aol.com> <001401c818c9$14b330c0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Message-ID: <000701c818d0$2b42ee50$0a10c548@RW> Everything is fine here. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TR4Tony" To: "John Frymark" ; "steve Belfer" ; "Steve Smith" Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Racecar evacuation > any more from Kas ? all ok with you ? > rgds > Tony > > ps ..... now prepping 2nd entry for ROTT .....we also have 3 blue TR4's > entering as a team ..... suggestions for names ? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Frymark" > To: "steve Belfer" ; "Steve Smith" > > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 7:29 PM > Subject: [Fot] Racecar evacuation > > >> My thoughts: Insure the car for a declared value needed to buy a >> replacement. In the event of fire, grab all the spares and pit >> equipment that won't tolerate "heat treating". You will never get >> fair reimbursement for these things >> >> John Frymark >> >> PS. Alan Mitzutani is OK. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> tr4.tony at virgin.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sat Oct 27 13:35:56 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:35:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Passing this along - "Used Camshaft for TR6 and TR250 S2 Kastner $50" References: <47237F11.50802@greenheart.com> Message-ID: <001101c818d0$98124ee0$0a10c548@RW> That S-2 camshaft if one of my original parts (my name is stamped on the back of the rear bearing journal) would be a great core to use for a bigger cam as it was ground from a blank factory core and has full size lobes. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Wagner" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:10 AM Subject: [Fot] Passing this along - "Used Camshaft for TR6 and TR250 S2 Kastner $50" > http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/pts/460811836.html > > Reply to: sale-460811836 at craigslist.org > > Date: 2007-10-26, 5:42PM PDT > > > Two Original Fuel Pumps with Lever [TR6].$25.Triumph Badge for TR250 > trunk lid,unused,$30 TR3 Speedo and Tach $50 each...TR3 Original Fan > Assembly $35..Used Camshaft for TR6 and TR250 S2 Kastner $50 > > > > > > > > * Location: Tujunga CA > * it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other > commercial interests > > > PostingID: 460811836 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Oct 27 13:51:09 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:51:09 EDT Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn--FoT Host Hotel for the Glen 2008 (hotel proposal forthcoming) Message-ID: FoT, I put in for 'request for proposal' based on reserving (10) rooms at the Hampton Inn in Painted Post, New York. I should have a response within a couple of days. Two of these rooms are spoken for. If you wanted to be included on this list, please let me know. The cost will be about $100/per night. Most rooms will have two beds (shared expenses?) Sidebar comment: The list of attendees has gotten impressive, in number and names. Thanks! Joe Alexander From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 27 14:13:07 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:13:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn--FoT Host Hotel for the Glen 2008 (hotel proposal forthcoming) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <217820.18583.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Joe: Not to step on your parade, but someone had indicated there was a potential for renting camping trailers for the weekend. Anyone know anything more on this? Thanks, Ernie N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT, I put in for 'request for proposal' based on reserving (10) rooms at the Hampton Inn in Painted Post, New York. I should have a response within a couple of days. Two of these rooms are spoken for. If you wanted to be included on this list, please let me know. The cost will be about $100/per night. Most rooms will have two beds (shared expenses?) Sidebar comment: The list of attendees has gotten impressive, in number and names. Thanks! Joe Alexander ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Group44TR7 at aol.com Sat Oct 27 14:34:04 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 16:34:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Motorsport Library/Museum Message-ID: About a year ago I sent in an inquiry to them about the first SCCA national held at Watkins Glen. They just very recently responded to the inquiry that they had some information and photographs from the specific event. I responded with a inquiry about how to get copies of information, no response has come from my inquiry. Anyone have past experience dealing with this organization? CP ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From cak at dimebank.com Sat Oct 27 14:37:41 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Would your evac plans involve the triumph Message-ID: <200710272037.l9RKbf1t015544@moose.dimebank.com> I saw a photo yesterday (I think) in the NYT that showed a burned down house, and in front of it were the easily recognizable remains of a TR6 and a TR4 or 4A ... yes, here it is. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/us/26dead.html These folks had more to worry about than their Triumphs, I fear - though they might have been trying to evacuate them. From jmwagner at greenheart.com Sat Oct 27 15:52:19 2007 From: jmwagner at greenheart.com (Justin Wagner) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:52:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 1952 Triumph Renown Seller seeks Assistance In pricing Car Message-ID: <4723B312.2080405@greenheart.com> I've been in contact with this seller, via e-mail, and he was having difficulty pricing the car. I am not very familiar with Renowns, so I was of no help. If anyone has experience with these cars or is an interested buyer, here is his info below. (I do not know the seller and I have not seen the car.) --Justin SELLER INFO: David Sells 1952 Triumph Renown ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Reply to: sale-459961746 at craigslist.org Date: 2007-10-25, 9:22PM PDT 1952 Triumph Renown in excellent conditioned....garaged for years...previous owner was Brian Ahearn's father.... LINK to his ad on Craigs List: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/car/459961746.html From alfetta95 at optonline.net Sat Oct 27 16:15:29 2007 From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (alfetta95 at optonline.net) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:15:29 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Fot] What color's your chassis? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I went white on the frame. Saw a pic in some book and thought it looked cool. Black suspension parts. Good looking until first "off" then who cares. Todd Redmond ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com Date: Saturday, October 27, 2007 10:55 am Subject: [Fot] What color's your chassis? To: FOT at autox.team.net > Opinions solicited...For the racer, do you like the frame black, > body color > or machinery gray? I think gray is common on formula cars to > expose cracks? > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > alfetta95 at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Herald948 at aol.com Sat Oct 27 17:42:44 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:42:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] What color's your chassis? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/27/2007 10:55:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Gt6 steve at aol.com writes: Opinions solicited...For the racer, do you like the frame black, body color or machinery gray? I think gray is common on formula cars to expose cracks? ==AM== ISTR that many of the "Works" Triumphs (particularly Le Mans Spitfires) had white or light grey frames at least in part for this very purpose. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From trhouse at greenapple.com Sat Oct 27 20:01:20 2007 From: trhouse at greenapple.com (Tom Householder) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:01:20 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Dorothy Deen, March 28, 1922 - October 23, 2007 Message-ID: I just recieved this from Jonathan Stien, Dorothy and Jim were on my mind this week with the fires . I'd checked the maps to see that they were out of it all. Sincereley a couple of the finest people I have ever met. Tom Householder For Immediate Release Contact: Jonathan A. Stein 610/779-9710 610/779-3705 fax American British Car Legend Dies Dorothy Deen, March 28, 1922 - October 23, 2007 Oceanside California, October 23, 2007. As raging wildfires threatened her Southern California home, Dorothy Deen Sitz died in a nearby Oceanside hospital after a long illness. The vivacious blonde Deen was best known for the Doretti sports car, a line of sports car accessories of the same name and for importing Triumph Sports cars for the Western United States. A darling of the local and automotive press, she was a common fixture at races and promoting the sports cars she sold. Born in Hollywood, Calif., to engineer and businessman Arthur Andersen and Martha Schultz Andersen, Dorothy grew up in a time when women either stayed home with children or worked as secretaries and telephone operators. At an early age, Dorothy Andersen had other ideas. Her career started as a teenager test driving the Whizzer motor bicycles her father had redesigned. She graduated to a mail order business selling gasoline model airplane engines her father also designed and manufactured. Growing up in Los Angeles, Dorothy had always been interested in cars, but the interest really took off in 1950 when she took delivery of a brand new Ivory MG TD, which was followed by several sporty Simcas. Instantly, she was propelled into a world of rallies, clubs and races. Although her later business interests prevented her from racing, she and her father often ran their cars on an abandoned airfield near the Andersen beach house. The next business venture forever changed Dorothy9s life. Unable to find high-quality accessories for her MG and her father9s Morgans, the pair designed and marketed their own wind wings, sun visors, luggage racks, valve covers in addition to wood and aluminum steering wheels. With backing from Andersen and in partnership with machinist Paul Bernhardt, Cal Specialties was born. To make the Cal Specialties line sound more exciting, the partners took the first three letters of Dorothy9s name, and turned it into the Italianate 3Doretti.2 . Through his work with thin-wall steel tubing, Andersen became involved with the Standard Swallow Company that was building a sports car based on Triumph TR2 running gear. In partnership with Dorothy, Andersen took on distribution of the new car in the U.S. and simultaneously picked up Western distribution rights for Triumph. Not only would Dorothy import the cars, but for a single dollar she sold the rights to the Doretti name that soon graced the attractive new two-seater. After Doretti production ended in 1955, Deen continued to import Triumphs until the company bought out all distributors in 1960. She then became the 45th woman in the world to earn her helicopter pilot9s license and later co-owned and managed an aircraft dealership. She later returned to UCLA to become a para legal on her intended but never completed--route to becoming an attorney. Along the way she declined Max Hoffman9s offer of a West Coast BMW distributorship and opted for a life of retirement and travel with her late husband, Tony Anthony, whom she met when he sold her that first MG TD sports cars years earlier. She is survived by automotive historian Jim Sitz, her husband of 16 years. For more information, contact Jonathan A. Stein, 610/779-9710 or jonathanastein at aol.com. 7450 Valley View Lane Reading, PA 19606, USA; 610\779-9710 (fax: 610/779-3705); cell: 484/824-2660; jonathanstein at aol.com From klynch_6 at msn.com Sat Oct 27 20:58:44 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:58:44 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Question Message-ID: Can you replace a 1147 Spit motor with a 1500 without too much problem? Thanx! Kevin From spitlist at cox.net Sat Oct 27 21:11:18 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:11:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001e01c81910$3648a200$2202a8c0@newcomputer> The dimensions of the two engines are identical. Also the gearbox attachments are also the same. So it is a "Piece of cake" Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of KEVIN LYNCH Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 7:59 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Question Can you replace a 1147 Spit motor with a 1500 without too much problem? Thanx! Kevin spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From klynch_6 at msn.com Sat Oct 27 22:03:20 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:03:20 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Question References: <001e01c81910$3648a200$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: Thank you Joe. Kev ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Curry To: 'KEVIN LYNCH' ; 'FOT' Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 9:11 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Question The dimensions of the two engines are identical. Also the gearbox attachments are also the same. So it is a "Piece of cake" Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of KEVIN LYNCH Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 7:59 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Question Can you replace a 1147 Spit motor with a 1500 without too much problem? Thanx! Kevin _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sun Oct 28 01:27:34 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 01:27:34 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Questions about Watkins Glen in ' 08 Message-ID: <000201c81934$028ae530$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> I am hoping to make it to Watkins Glen in ' 08 and with luck get sponsored to go. I would really like to speak/correspond with someone that's raced there to familiarize with some of the details of racing at The Glen. I have tried to download certain info from the website but their downloads are scrambled at the moment. Besides, media kits and the like can't tell me what another driver can. Any help would be appreciated. Jim G RMVR # 102 From gp89 at charter.net Sun Oct 28 07:39:07 2007 From: gp89 at charter.net (gp89 at charter.net) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 6:39:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071028093907.OHFDB.128543.root@fepweb02> The throttle linkage is a cable on the 1500. You will also need a later style yoke for the front u joint to fit the transmission. Jeff Senty gp89 ---- KEVIN LYNCH wrote: > Can you replace a 1147 Spit motor with a 1500 without too much problem? > > Thanx! > > Kevin > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gp89 at charter.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Sun Oct 28 07:58:41 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 09:58:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] Question Message-ID: In a message dated 10/27/2007 9:59:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, klynch_6 at msn.com writes: Can you replace a 1147 Spit motor with a 1500 without too much problem? the only problem you'll have is that the 1500 will likely hand-grenade on a regular basis... HTH Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillDentin at aol.com Sun Oct 28 10:05:20 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:05:20 EDT Subject: [Fot] Dorothy Deen, March 28, 1922 - October 23, 2007 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/27/2007 8:01:58 PM Central Standard Time, trhouse at greenapple.com writes: > Oceanside California, October 23, 2007. > As raging wildfires threatened her Southern California home, Dorothy Deen > Sitz died in a nearby Oceanside hospital after a long illness. The vivacious > blonde Deen was best known for the Doretti sports car, a line of sports car > accessories of the same name and for importing Triumph Sports cars for the > Western United States. A darling of the local and automotive press, she was > a common fixture at races and promoting the sports cars she sold. > How very sad. An important player in early TRIUMPH history on this side of the pond. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 29 07:36:43 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:36:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen-Hampton Inn 2008 Message-ID: FoT Based on the response to the Hampton Inn as 'Host Hotel', I will likely up the number of rooms forecasted to 15 or 20, especially if it makes a difference in pricing. As soon as I get the "Proposal" back, I will forward the information to everyone so they can make their own reservations, with arrival and departure dates. I expect that the key words will be "Friends of Triumph". Note: The address for this Hotel is "Corning" but the Hotel is actually in Painted Post. Regards, Joe From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 29 08:13:07 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:13:07 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen-Planning Spreadsheet on Entrants and Attendees Message-ID: FoT, I have this huge list of entrants and attendees. It is somewhat incomplete, but Tom Strange has volunteered to take it over and develop an expanded Excel Spreadsheet with information. This is really appreciated. Thanks Tom! When he is ready, some of the information can be published on the FoT Website, with some help from Henry Frye. Sometime after the first of the year, our major sponsor, Classic Motorsports Magazine, will put together a blurb on the WG Grand Prix. Along with this Tim will publish the name of the ENTRANTS, as we know them at that point. Tim has done this in the past. (Walter Mitty) I sent the Excel Spreadsheet LIST to Tom this weekend, and when he is ready, he will be asking for further information. Thanks for the cooperation....and thanks again, Tom! Regards, Joe A From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Oct 29 08:40:10 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Paging Mr. Frye Message-ID: Hi, Henry Frye - I need you e-mail address. Thanks. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Oct 29 08:46:09 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Cancel Page Message-ID: Hi, Nevermind! I found it. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 29 08:56:27 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:56:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen-Planning Spreadsheet on Entrants and Attendees In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <168044.47850.qm@web81112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Good morning everyone ;>) Thanks, Joe, for the note to the list. I did volunteer to do this, and will be looking for info as we proceed. For now, if anyone wants to add or delete their name from the list, I will put people down as having a car or not, and I'll probably add info as we go to make it easier for everyone to plan things such as the motel, T-shirts, paddock space, activities and such. I welcome any kind of info, such as, i'd like to come, but dont know... I'll definitley be there ... etc. If plans change, let me know and I can move names, cars etc to whatever column seems to be appropriate. I have most email addresses, but am lacking a few, so emailing would be best. That way, we have a way to contact the list of people as developments and news come available. This looks like a big planning event for Joe, so I'm sure that at some point, any info we have will be needed or helpful to someone. Send me any info you like, and I"ll track it for whoever needs it... I may well ask for other things later on as the need arises. Hope to see you all there. Thanks, PS. The sooner the better on any of this, it is all flexible, and can be changed as we go... N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT, I have this huge list of entrants and attendees. It is somewhat incomplete, but Tom Strange has volunteered to take it over and develop an expanded Excel Spreadsheet with information. This is really appreciated. Thanks Tom! When he is ready, some of the information can be published on the FoT Website, with some help from Henry Frye. Sometime after the first of the year, our major sponsor, Classic Motorsports Magazine, will put together a blurb on the WG Grand Prix. Along with this Tim will publish the name of the ENTRANTS, as we know them at that point. Tim has done this in the past. (Walter Mitty) I sent the Excel Spreadsheet LIST to Tom this weekend, and when he is ready, he will be asking for further information. Thanks for the cooperation....and thanks again, Tom! Regards, Joe A tstrange at sbcglobal.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From jsnook at wcnet.org Mon Oct 29 10:33:48 2007 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:33:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Member Message-ID: <009a01c81a49$7b9890b0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Hi all, While at Mid Ohio a couple weeks ago a guy named Bill Tobin approached me about FOT and some questions about rear hubs for a TR6 vintage racer. I am copying him on this so if anyone can help, contact him directly. I guess this is also a nomination to the FOT list if he is not all ready a member. Thanks, Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Oct 29 10:36:11 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:36:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] TR6 Member In-Reply-To: <009a01c81a49$7b9890b0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> References: <009a01c81a49$7b9890b0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Oct 2007, Jeff Snook wrote: > Hi all, > > While at Mid Ohio a couple weeks ago a guy named Bill Tobin approached me > about FOT and some questions about rear hubs for a TR6 vintage racer. > > I am copying him on this so if anyone can help, contact him directly. > > I guess this is also a nomination to the FOT list if he is not all ready a > member. SECOND! > Thanks, > > Jeff Snook > http://www.snooksdreamcars.com regards, rml (TR6 racer) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fasttrs at mindspring.com Mon Oct 29 12:40:02 2007 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:40:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Member In-Reply-To: <009a01c81a49$7b9890b0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> References: <009a01c81a49$7b9890b0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Message-ID: <000f01c81a5b$1e19e9e0$6401a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> I'll third him. I may try to talk him out of racing a TR6 though. I may have a line on a set. Mike -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Snook Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 11:34 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Subject: [Fot] TR6 Member Hi all, While at Mid Ohio a couple weeks ago a guy named Bill Tobin approached me about FOT and some questions about rear hubs for a TR6 vintage racer. I am copying him on this so if anyone can help, contact him directly. I guess this is also a nomination to the FOT list if he is not all ready a member. Thanks, Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com fasttrs at mindspring.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From S.Janzen at comcast.net Mon Oct 29 13:31:04 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:31:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] GT6 Project in Philadelphia area available References: Message-ID: <004b01c81a62$3f8be8b0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> A friend of mine has a complete disassembled GT6 ('68?) and a second later car sans engine and trans. They started to make a vintage race car and stopped, w/o much progress being made. Chassis was gone through, painted, new bushings, front coil-overs etc but has been sitting on and under a tarp for a few years outside. Body looks like there may be some rot in the front part of the outer rockers but generally very solid, in white primer, totally stripped. All interior stuff in boxes. Rear is swing axle, no hood or quarter panel vents so I am guessing at the age. No mfg plate or title. Second body is probably a 69-70, later rear suspension, body in worse condition, and bonnet is rusty in the lower front areas and the hood lip is dented. Interior non existent except for dash. Al (those of you who race SVRA in the East may know him from his lime yellow 55 Vette which he and his son race) is looking for $800 for all. Good starting point for a vintage race project but not for the faint-hearted. Located in western Philadelphia PA suburbs. Contact me if you are interested and I will get you in touch with Al. Thanks! Scott s.janzen at comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 6:17 AM Subject: [Fot] Classic Motorsports magazine wall calendar > Sorry about the commercial message, but heck, I am a good citizen of the > board and supporter of all things Triumph. Plus, we are giivng away > calendars > again. This year we have a TR3 (not mine) on the calendar. To check it out > go to > the website below. Thanks. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > Here's the offical mumbo jumbo... > > Free 2008 wall calendar from Classic Motorsports. > > Featuring some of the coolest cars and best photography from Classic > Motorsports magazine, this 2008 calendar is available free to all Classic > Motorsports > subscribers. Chock-full of a year's worth of eye candy for your office or > garage this high quality calendar measures a full 10" x 17" when open. > Each month > features a brilliant, full-color photo of one of your favorite classic > cars, > including favorites from MG, Triumph, Alfa Romeo and Porsche, along with > some > more unusual picks, like the Lang-Cooper vintage racer, the Isetta > microcar and > the "Hollywood" Sunbeam Tiger. > > The 2008 Classic Motorsports calendar is only available for free until Nov > 13th. To see if your favorite car is on this calendar or to make sure you > get a > copy please visit http://classicmotorsports.net/calendar/ > > Not ready to subscribe? You can still purchase this calendar from the > Classic > Motorsports Store at https://ssl.grmotorsports.com/grm-store.php for a > limited time. And if you would like to order bulk copies for your club, > give us a > call at 888-676-9747 for special pricing. > > > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 16:06:13 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:06:13 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a city lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. Battery and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. Photos at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 -- Chuck Arnold From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 29 16:13:08 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:13:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Message-ID: Chuck! We all hope it will be recovered....Keep us posted. Did you put anything out on the Vintage-Race list? Joe A > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > From tr4.tony at virgin.net Mon Oct 29 16:20:30 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 22:20:30 -0000 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001301c81a79$ead7b7f0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Chuck Ill post this on the TR Register site tonight. Hope it helps you get it back. Regards Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Friends" Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:06 PM Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a > city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. > Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > tr4.tony at virgin.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 16:31:29 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:31:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Need a '69 TR6 body Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710291531i23bc899bqf6a35c3932bf6857@mail.gmail.com> Just in case I do not get my stolen TR5 race car back: I will "convert" my '74 TR6 into a '69 so I can vintage race it. I would appreciate any leads on a '69 TR6 that needs a "total restore" as I really just need the tub. Thanks, Chuck Arnold From S.Janzen at comcast.net Mon Oct 29 16:35:21 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:35:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008a01c81a7b$fdca43d0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> You should spread this around to all vintage race organizations, restoration shops, exporters, etc so that if this car ever shows up it is identified and returned. That really sucks! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Friends" Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 6:06 PM Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a > city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. > Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Oct 29 16:42:25 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:42:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Chuck Can't believe someone could easily get rid of a car like that without raising a lot of interest from the TR community. I may be the only person on the list who doesn't know your location. It would help for people on the look-out for the car/trailer or parts to know where the car was stolen from. Good luck Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Chuck Arnold Sent: October 29, 2007 6:06 PM To: Friends Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a city lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. Battery and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. Photos at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 -- Chuck Arnold macdonaldp at rogers.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 16:49:43 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:49:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710291549g3fdbc907ne58856ceba967637@mail.gmail.com> I live in, and the car was stolen in Seattle, WA. On 10/29/07, Paul MacDonald wrote: > > > Hi Chuck > > Can't believe someone could easily get rid of a car like that without > raising a lot of interest from the TR community. > > I may be the only person on the list who doesn't know your location. It > would help for people on the look-out for the car/trailer or parts to know > where the car was stolen from. > > Good luck > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of > Chuck Arnold > Sent: October 29, 2007 6:06 PM > To: Friends > Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a > city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under > hood. Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > macdonaldp at rogers.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Chuck Arnold From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Mon Oct 29 16:57:10 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:57:10 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen References: Message-ID: <004c01c81a7f$0a2c3fe0$0200a8c0@Desktop> What state does Chuck live in? Don't forget the local car clubs ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > Chuck! > > We all hope it will be recovered....Keep us posted. > > Did you put anything out on the Vintage-Race list? > > Joe A > > >> >> Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed >> receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I >> left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a >> city >> lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I >> park]. >> No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. >> >> Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. >> Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. >> Battery >> and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. >> Mallory >> distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. >> >> Photos at: >> http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 >> >> -- >> Chuck Arnold >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From walt at hot-tr6.com Mon Oct 29 18:33:57 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:33:57 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FW: Emailing: OFF THE Clock Message-ID: <20071030013335.C7EC21879C8@autox.team.net> _____ From: Jack SCHULTZ [mailto:jschultz04 at msn.com] Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:13 PM To: Anne Yeck; BERNADETTE VALDEZ; CDLAWYER; Cheryl Skoumal; Dennis Monks; Jack Lind; MARILYN GUNN; Patricia Schaefer; Rich Sotak; RICK; Trish Schwarz; Vicki Jones; Walter Hollowell Subject: Emailing: OFF THE Clock If you can not read the attachment enlarge to 100% [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of OFF THE Clock.jpg] From wgrosenbach at juno.com Mon Oct 29 19:42:07 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:42:07 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Message-ID: <20071029.194207.2484.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Chuck, I've posted your situation to the RMVR Bulletin Board. A few years ago, a member had his truck, trailer w/racer stolen from an hotel parking lot. Towed the whole thing away. They thought it was a contractor's trailer loaded with tools. When they found an unmarketable vintage racer, they abandoned it, stealing the tools. The club and the owner put so much effort into the search, it impressed the investigators so much, they got all the local TV News involved. They got great air time and had a viewer spot the trailer. May your fortunes be so good, Bill From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Oct 29 20:05:15 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:05:15 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen References: Message-ID: Chuck, also, don't forget to monitor www.racecars.com . My condolences. Kevin Denver ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: triosan at gmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Chuck! We all hope it will be recovered....Keep us posted. Did you put anything out on the Vintage-Race list? Joe A > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jeff_durant at comcast.net Mon Oct 29 21:13:25 2007 From: jeff_durant at comcast.net (jeff_durant at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 03:13:25 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <969553218-1193714122-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-365666944-@bxe103.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Chuck, As mentioned on the phone, you have a lot of friends here that will be looking for your car. I'll spread the word and keep a close look out for your TR5. Jeff Durant Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "KEVIN LYNCH" Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:05:15 To:, , Subject: Re: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Chuck, also, don't forget to monitor www.racecars.com . My condolences. Kevin Denver ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: triosan at gmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Chuck! We all hope it will be recovered....Keep us posted. Did you put anything out on the Vintage-Race list? Joe A > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html jeff_durant at comcast.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Mon Oct 29 21:36:50 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:36:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: <969553218-1193714122-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-365666944-@bxe103.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <969553218-1193714122-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-365666944-@bxe103.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <000b01c81aa6$1b842ec0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> I am thinking that if I just stole a car that was virtually un-sellable in the US, I would be loading it on a container and putting it on one of those ships that are parked along Elliot Bay. Either that or part it out. I don't know what sort of alert could be placed at the container port in Seattle, but that might be something to consider. Good Luck, Joe C. -----Original Message----- Chuck, As mentioned on the phone, you have a lot of friends here that will be looking for your car. I'll spread the word and keep a close look out for your TR5. Jeff Durant Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From jfrymark at aol.com Mon Oct 29 21:49:57 2007 From: jfrymark at aol.com (John Frymark) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:49:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 11, Issue 55 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4626397A-87BD-4390-A785-95C33FDB3C77@aol.com> Chuck, I posted your info on the VARA message boards. Hope you get some good news soon. John Frymark On Oct 29, 2007, at 6:33 PM, fot-request at autox.team.net wrote: > Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:06:13 -0700 > From: "Chuck Arnold" > Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > To: Friends > Message-ID: > <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was > when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long > in a city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I > park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior > markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. > Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. > Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Mon Oct 29 23:48:09 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 22:48:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stolen Car Message-ID: <001501c81ab8$73e7b9d0$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> I'm really sorry to hear about your car, I'd be sick too. Have hope though, as Bill put it, it's likely someone thought it was full of tools or copper pipe or wire and stole it for that reason. I can't ever remember a race car that was stolen and never recovered. Good luck, Jim Gray From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Tue Oct 30 06:35:17 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:35:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Message-ID: <000e01c81af1$53fa9230$0200a8c0@Desktop> Chuck A little more information on the trailer, as go down the highway would be helpful do you have any pictures of the it how many doors are on it color just white tag number >>> Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior >>> markings. >>> Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. >>> Battery >>> and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. >>> Mallory >>> distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. >>> >>> Photos at: >>> http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 >>> >>> -- >>> Chuck Arnold >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> wensley_tr at comcast.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Tue Oct 30 07:43:08 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:43:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com > References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200710301341.l9UDfF8B154450@ns3.geneseo.net> A friend in Chicago had the same experience a couple of years ago. The trailer was later found, tools gone, but car still inside. The police guessed that the thieves were really after the trailer and didn't know how to dispose of the car. We all hope that you have this good fortune - there is still hope. At 05:06 PM 10/29/2007, Chuck Arnold wrote: >Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed >receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I >left. > >-- >Chuck Arnold >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From walt at hot-tr6.com Tue Oct 30 07:48:23 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 07:48:23 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FW: Emailing: OFF THE Clock Message-ID: <20071030144802.481B5187A4A@autox.team.net> I'll try resending this. It was pretty cute. Karma Kind of sucks Walt in Abq. _____ From: Jack SCHULTZ [mailto:jschultz04 at msn.com] Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:13 PM To: Anne Yeck; BERNADETTE VALDEZ; CDLAWYER; Cheryl Skoumal; Dennis Monks; Jack Lind; MARILYN GUNN; Patricia Schaefer; Rich Sotak; RICK; Trish Schwarz; Vicki Jones; Walter Hollowell Subject: Emailing: OFF THE Clock If you can not read the attachment enlarge to 100% [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of OFF THE Clock.jpg] From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Tue Oct 30 09:33:44 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 07:33:44 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Need a '69 TR6 body References: <8cbd782d0710291531i23bc899bqf6a35c3932bf6857@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <014201c81b0a$432acb00$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Chuck, I have a TR4A car sitting around that maybe I'd part with. It's very similar to the TR5 except the TR5 right front fender has a little bit more recess for the PI/Carbs to fit. I haven't done much with it yet but think it's fairly sound. Just a thought if you want to build a TR5 again. The chassis of the TR6 and TR4A should change with out any problems. What part of the TR6 tub do you need? Let me know what you think. Sorry to hear about your loss. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Friends" ; "Triumph" <6pack at autox.team.net> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 2:31 PM Subject: [Fot] Need a '69 TR6 body > Just in case I do not get my stolen TR5 race car back: I will "convert" my > '74 TR6 into a '69 > so I can vintage race it. I would appreciate any leads on a '69 TR6 that > needs a "total restore" as I really just need the tub. > > Thanks, > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 09:12:25 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:12:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: <001101c81af9$4df35270$c59c3e4b@keng> References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> <001101c81af9$4df35270$c59c3e4b@keng> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710300812kfda4d80gc8882b9d9067a942@mail.gmail.com> Unfortunately the trailer is as plain jane as you could get. I purposely had no markings on it indicating a race car. It is white. It has a side door [with the lock broken out]. The inside has gray vinyl flooring. The front right plywood is broken and the outside bends out a little from when the car "got away inside one day" at bumper hight. Plates are 4476 SW, Washington state. Here is what I psoted to our race group: This weekend my 16x7 White Road Force trailer was stolen from the 2400 block of Westlake Ave North in Seattle. My green 1968 Triumph TR5 race car was inside. Car number is 444. Trailer license is 4476SW. If anyone gets a wiff of these please notify the Seattle police. Case number is 07-441715. Pictures at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 On 10/30/07, BFEKen at copper.net wrote: > > Chuck, hopefully when the see the race car, they will dump it quick. > > KEN > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck Arnold" > To: "Friends" > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 2:06 PM > Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > > > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a > > city > > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I > park]. > > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior > markings. > > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. > > Battery > > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the > injectors. Mallory > > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > > > Photos at: > > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > > > -- > > Chuck Arnold > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > bfeken at copper.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Chuck Arnold From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Tue Oct 30 21:12:32 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:12:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very origiinal car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is nice and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and the dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. We are having a tuning problem. With 2 psi fuel pressre at the carb at WOT the engine runs lean, especially at part throttle. The stock spec. calls for "DD" mixture needles. They are way lean. Just bringing the revs up from idle to about 2500 to 3000 rpm with no load the engine spits and runs very rough. Adding fuel makes the engine "rev" right up. We have tried progressively richer needles going from the "DD" to "AN", then to "H-6" and finally to "DK" needles. With the "DK" needles installed the engine runs"GREAT' under any circumstances but I am afraid that it is to rich. I took it on a 35 miles or so road test on Sunday with these needles installed and it was a pleasure to drive! but seemed to just "suck" gas, but this is a subjective judgement as I was not able to measure the fuel economy. Note, the cam, displacement, etc. are all stock in this car. I am at a loss to understand why the needles need to be so much richer than the stock spec to make this car run properly! Does anyone have any ideas or experience with this exact model? Greg Solow From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Tue Oct 30 21:31:27 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:31:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Oil canister o-rings Message-ID: <005801c81b6e$882fddd0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Before I overnight ship them in, does anyone know if the Purolator filter head o-ring crosses over to something off the shelf at my local parts house? I have some spares I bought a long time ago but it turns out they are the wrong size. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Oct 30 21:51:17 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles In-Reply-To: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: <287661.95972.qm@web81202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greg: Perhaps this suggestion is too simple, but, have you checked for manifold air leaks that would cause the mixture to be lean because your sucking air? Could be your adding extra air after the throttle plate; carbs to manifold, manifold to head, hose from manifold to PCV valve bad. Just silly things you've probably checked already. - Ed Greg Solow wrote: We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very origiinal car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is nice and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and the dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. We are having a tuning problem. With 2 psi fuel pressre at the carb at WOT the engine runs lean, especially at part throttle. The stock spec. calls for "DD" mixture needles. They are way lean. Just bringing the revs up from idle to about 2500 to 3000 rpm with no load the engine spits and runs very rough. Adding fuel makes the engine "rev" right up. We have tried progressively richer needles going from the "DD" to "AN", then to "H-6" and finally to "DK" needles. With the "DK" needles installed the engine runs"GREAT' under any circumstances but I am afraid that it is to rich. I took it on a 35 miles or so road test on Sunday with these needles installed and it was a pleasure to drive! but seemed to just "suck" gas, but this is a subjective judgement as I was not able to measure the fuel economy. Note, the cam, displacement, etc. are all stock in this car. I am at a loss to understand why the needles need to be so much richer than the stock spec to make this car run properly! Does anyone have any ideas or experience with this exact model? Greg Solow edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From patrickmannion1 at netzero.net Wed Oct 31 00:39:22 2007 From: patrickmannion1 at netzero.net (patrickmannion1 at netzero.net) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:39:22 GMT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: <20071030.233922.188.0@webmail10.vgs.untd.com> Hello everyone, On this particular Spitfire it idles fine on the "stock needles". Bring the engine RPM up to 3500 to 4500 RPM and the engine just falls flat like it was starving for gas on stock needles. Spraying "Chem-tool" in the throat of the carbs the engine RPM picks up immediately confirming a "fuel starvation" issue. Fuel Pressure and delivery is adequate. Fuel quality is good "not stale gas" (this car had sat for a long time). Fuel tank, has been cleaned fuel filter is new, fuel lines are clear, fuel pump is OK. We did find the feed tube from one of the float bowls to the jet tube was "kinked" after removing the protective spring around the float bowl to jet, (that would certainly have caused a restriction that would have caused fuel starvation). Replace jet/tube to float bowl. Blocked off PCV valve and used a Vacutech smoke machine (basically applies smoke to the engine, a leak in a manifold gasket or throttle shaft shows up as smoke leaking out the origin of what would be a vacuum leak, wonderful tool for looking for vacuum leaks on modern cars).Also tried propane and Chemtool with the engine running to verify integrity of intake manifold gasket, PCV valve. Ignition system is perfect. Ignition coil has great KV output, scope pattern great on an old Sun machine. Compression, cylinder leakage all OK. Even dropped exhaust at the header output thinking what if exhaust was restricted. We had even put a vacuum gauge on the intake manifold to see if back pressure in the exhaust was effecting cylinder filling efficiency as engine RPM increased. Ignition total advance is about 36 degrees. Camshaft lift is uniform, (no bad lobes)!!! Our conclusion is it has to be the mixture needles as it runs great on rich needles. Any suggestions appreciated. thanks Pat Mannion The Engine Room From herald948 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 07:48:38 2007 From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:48:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles In-Reply-To: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> References: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: <8C9E9DBDFCD8BC0-D00-841D@webmail-da18.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Greg Solow We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very origiinal car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is nice and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and the dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. ==AM== Greg, I've no sage words of wisdom about the problem, but I do have a question. Which engine are we talking about here? You mention "stock tubular headers" -- they were "stock" only on the Spitfire 4 Mk2 with the 1147cc, six-port engine (FC series). An original engine for a '68 Mk3 would be an FD series, eight-port, 1296cc. engine. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From klynch_6 at msn.com Wed Oct 31 09:33:48 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:33:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles References: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: Greg, hopefully everything remained on the shelves after the quake from the Calaveras Fault last nite. Was in S Cruz during the 89' Loma Prieta. Happy Halloween Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Solow To: Friends of Triumph Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 9:12 PM Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very origiinal car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is nice and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and the dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. We are having a tuning problem. With 2 psi fuel pressre at the carb at WOT the engine runs lean, especially at part throttle. The stock spec. calls for "DD" mixture needles. They are way lean. Just bringing the revs up from idle to about 2500 to 3000 rpm with no load the engine spits and runs very rough. Adding fuel makes the engine "rev" right up. We have tried progressively richer needles going from the "DD" to "AN", then to "H-6" and finally to "DK" needles. With the "DK" needles installed the engine runs"GREAT' under any circumstances but I am afraid that it is to rich. I took it on a 35 miles or so road test on Sunday with these needles installed and it was a pleasure to drive! but seemed to just "suck" gas, but this is a subjective judgement as I was not able to measure the fuel economy. Note, the cam, displacement, etc. are all stock in this car. I am at a loss to understand why the needles need to be so much richer than the stock spec to make this car run properly! Does anyone have any ideas or experience with this exact model? Greg Solow _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Wed Oct 31 10:09:32 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:09:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles References: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> <8C9E9DBDFCD8BC0-D00-841D@webmail-da18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000d01c81bd8$6cb31260$6401a8c0@TER2> Woops! I has been so long since I have seen anything but 1500 Spitfires, I got mixed up about the headers. The engine is a 1300 8 port head. The headers must be an aftermarket addition put on 30 + years ago. Regards, Greg Solow ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:48 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Solow > > > We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very > origiinal > car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new > guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is > nice > and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and > the > dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. > > ==AM== > Greg, I've no sage words of wisdom about the problem, but I do have a > question. Which engine are we talking about here? You mention "stock > tubular headers" -- they were "stock" only on the Spitfire 4 Mk2 with the > 1147cc, six-port engine (FC series). An original engine for a '68 Mk3 > would be an FD series, eight-port, 1296cc. engine. > > --Andy Mace > > *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? > *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph > Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > > Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph > Herald Database at its new URL: > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Wed Oct 31 10:28:14 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:28:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles References: <287661.95972.qm@web81202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c81bdb$12d9f1c0$6401a8c0@TER2> Regarding the Spitfire. There are no vacuum leaks. The PCV valve is ok. We have not checked the cam timing. Maybe that is in order. The engine runs GREAT! with the DK needles installed. What we really need is a chassis dyno to check mixture under load. There used to be one in San Jose but it is no longer in action. Maybe a "Smog test Dyno" might work? Has anyone tried one of these for tuning as opposed to Smog Testing? Greg Solow ----- Original Message ----- From: EDWARD BARNARD To: Greg Solow ; Friends of Triumph Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Greg: Perhaps this suggestion is too simple, but, have you checked for manifold air leaks that would cause the mixture to be lean because your sucking air? Could be your adding extra air after the throttle plate; carbs to manifold, manifold to head, hose from manifold to PCV valve bad. Just silly things you've probably checked already. - Ed Greg Solow wrote: We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very origiinal car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is nice and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and the dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. We are having a tuning problem. With 2 psi fuel pressre at the carb at WOT the engine runs lean, especially at part throttle. The stock spec. calls for "DD" mixture needles. They are way lean. Just bringing the revs up from idle to about 2500 to 3000 rpm with no load the engine spits and runs very rough. Adding fuel makes the engine "rev" right up. We have tried progressively richer needles going from the "DD" to "AN", then to "H-6" and finally to "DK" needles. With the "DK" needles installed the engine runs"GREAT' under any circumstances but I am afraid that it is to rich. I took it on a 35 miles or so road test on Sunday with these needles installed and it was a pleasure to drive! but seemed to just "suck" gas, but this is a subjective judgement as I was not able to measure the fuel economy. Note, the cam, displacement, etc. are all stock in this car. I am at a loss to understand why the needles need to be so much richer than the stock spec to make this car run properly! Does anyone have any ideas or experience with this exact model? Greg Solow _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From robertten1 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 10:30:47 2007 From: robertten1 at aol.com (robertten1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:30:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: <008a01c81a7b$fdca43d0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> <008a01c81a7b$fdca43d0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: <8C9E9F28703ECCF-520-82CD@MBLK-M01.sysops.aol.com> Wish you the best of luck in getting your TR5 back.? Hate to say?it but it probably was stolen by some landscaper for the trailer only.? Doesn't really matter what was inside it to him. Chin up, Bob T. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Janzen To: Chuck Arnold ; Friends Sent: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 6:35 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen You should spread this around to all vintage race organizations, restoration shops, exporters, etc so that if this car ever shows up it is identified and returned. That really sucks! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Friends" Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 6:06 PM Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a > city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. > Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot robertten1 at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From REK46 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 10:59:16 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:59:16 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: Why don't you just do a plug check after running?....if they work good,use em ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From WEmery7451 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 11:01:34 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:01:34 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: In a message dated 10/30/07 7:51:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, edwardbarnard at prodigy.net writes: << Greg: Perhaps this suggestion is too simple, but, have you checked for manif old air leaks that would cause the mixture to be lean because your sucking air? Could be your adding extra air after the throttle plate; carbs to manifold, ma nifold to head, hose from manifold to PCV valve bad. Just silly things you've p robably checked already. - Ed >> Possibly the throttle shaft bushings? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From mikee at ragtops.com Wed Oct 31 11:12:38 2007 From: mikee at ragtops.com (Mike) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:12:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4728B786.4040801@ragtops.com> Greg, We've had similar problems on many different cars. The stock needles don't provide enough fuel. Working with Joe Curto we've been able to make most of them run OK by fitting richer needles to the detriment of fuel economy. I think (unscientific theory with no hard evidence) that the problem stems from the changes in gasoline formulations. As the 'quality' of the fuel has changed over the years the energy in the fuel has diminished. More fuel is needed to get the same performance. The problem with this idea is that only about 10% of the cars we work on need this type of repair. Most of them run OK with the stock setup, although sometimes adjusted as rich as it will go. Mike Engard From REK46 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 11:13:49 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:13:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: The MkIII owners manual says that the engine is designed to operate on fuels having a min oct rating of 97(Research Method)..Using fuels of this type or higher,the static timing should be 6 degs B.T.D.C...if these fuels are not available,or lower,you should retard the ign timing just sufficient enuf to prevent pinging.....also be sure the float levels are correct ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 31 11:38:11 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:38:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710311038g3469c774xe9dd178a6597f1cf@mail.gmail.com> Can an SCCA legal cage be fitted in a TR6 with the hardtop? Do the Brits do this? Is there room for helmet clearance of the bar for a6 footer? Thanks, Chuck considering options if my TR5 never reappers. Anyone have a real vintage racing prepped TR250/5/6 available. Any suggestions for sources for looking? -- Chuck Arnold From keithfiles at btinternet.com Wed Oct 31 12:22:12 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:22:12 -0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710311038g3469c774xe9dd178a6597f1cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071031193304.3D40F187A03@autox.team.net> Hi Chuck, I am 6 ft and have a full FIA cage inside my TR6 and I run a GRP hardtop (used to run with a standard Triumph steel hardtop so I know that one fits) and I have no problems getting in and out of the car. My head, with the helmet on, does miss the roof but not by very much - having said that I still use the standard TR6 seat runner so if I lost that and bolted the seat directly to the floor I would have plenty of clearance. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Chuck Arnold Sent: 31 October 2007 17:38 To: Friends Subject: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing Can an SCCA legal cage be fitted in a TR6 with the hardtop? Do the Brits do this? Is there room for helmet clearance of the bar for a6 footer? Thanks, Chuck considering options if my TR5 never reappers. Anyone have a real vintage racing prepped TR250/5/6 available. Any suggestions for sources for looking? -- Chuck Arnold keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4.tony at virgin.net Wed Oct 31 12:57:27 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:57:27 -0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing References: <20071031193304.3D40F187A03@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <001301c81bef$e2470ce0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Hi Chuck Another solution if you need a couple of extra inches ..... my lid is the alloy type, but you could do this in steel or indeed let in some fibreglass bumps relatively easily. Im 6 ft 3 and this gives me 3 chear inches above my helmet. The bigger issue may be the design of the cage and how close this is to the back of your cranium if you have long legs and the seat well back into the car. Worth looking at. Water wings not necessary for circuit use! Regards Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Files" To: "'Chuck Arnold'" Cc: "'Friends'" Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing > Hi Chuck, > > I am 6 ft and have a full FIA cage inside my TR6 and I run a GRP hardtop > (used to run with a standard Triumph steel hardtop so I know that one > fits) > and I have no problems getting in and out of the car. My head, with the > helmet on, does miss the roof but not by very much - having said that I > still use the standard TR6 seat runner so if I lost that and bolted the > seat > directly to the floor I would have plenty of clearance. > > Cheers, Keith. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Chuck Arnold > Sent: 31 October 2007 17:38 > To: Friends > Subject: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing > > Can an SCCA legal cage be fitted in a TR6 with the hardtop? Do the Brits > do > this? Is there room for helmet clearance of the bar for a6 footer? > > Thanks, Chuck considering options if my TR5 never reappers. Anyone have > a > real vintage racing prepped TR250/5/6 available. Any suggestions for > sources for looking? > > -- > Chuck Arnold > keithfiles at btinternet.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > tr4.tony at virgin.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of RT07_07_3840LR.jpg] From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Wed Oct 31 13:11:31 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <480623.82675.qm@web81209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Don't forget...octane was measured differently back then (RON). Also note that octane ratings here in the states average 4 or 5 points below Europe because they use the RON rating while we average the RON and MON. Their 97 equals our high test or medium grade depending on who's European gas your buying. - Ed REK46 at aol.com wrote: The MkIII owners manual says that the engine is designed to operate on fuels having a min oct rating of 97(Research Method)..Using fuels of this type or higher,the static timing should be 6 degs B.T.D.C...if these fuels are not available,or lower,you should retard the ign timing just sufficient enuf to prevent pinging.....also be sure the float levels are correct ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From REK46 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 13:16:53 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:16:53 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: belive that was LEADED back then also ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From walt at hot-tr6.com Wed Oct 31 13:41:52 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:41:52 -0600 Subject: [Fot] N.O.S. Spitfire pistons Message-ID: <20071031204126.6E73B187A3D@autox.team.net> I ended up with a set of 4 new old stock pistons for a 1296cc Spitfire. .020 over. Still in Hepolite box. part number 20140. Complete with wrist pins and piston rings. If any fot member would like them for $100 (I'll pay shipping at that price) they can have them. If not I'll list them on ebaymotors in a few days. Thanks Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, New Mexico From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Wed Oct 31 13:46:04 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:46:04 -0500 Subject: [Fot] N.O.S. Spitfire pistons In-Reply-To: <20071031204126.6E73B187A3D@autox.team.net> References: <20071031204126.6E73B187A3D@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747C6FE8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> And if I can be permitted to piggy-back on Walt's message, I've got a set of the same for 1147, 0.040 over. Someone can have those for the same deal. Still in the Hepolite box, complete with wrist pins and piston rings. Scott B. (920) 257-2233 (office direct) -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Walter Hollowell Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:42 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] N.O.S. Spitfire pistons I ended up with a set of 4 new old stock pistons for a 1296cc Spitfire. .020 over. Still in Hepolite box. part number 20140. Complete with wrist pins and piston rings. If any fot member would like them for $100 (I'll pay shipping at that price) they can have them. If not I'll list them on ebaymotors in a few days. Thanks Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, New Mexico scott.barr at mccarty-law.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From walt at hot-tr6.com Wed Oct 31 13:51:30 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:51:30 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Pistons Sold Message-ID: <20071031205103.96E22187A5D@autox.team.net> the aforementioned Spitfire .020 are sold to Rick. That was quick. Thanks Again Walt Abq., NM From RYoung at navcomtech.com Wed Oct 31 15:04:47 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:04:47 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles In-Reply-To: <002101c81bdb$12d9f1c0$6401a8c0@TER2> References: <287661.95972.qm@web81202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002101c81bdb$12d9f1c0$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: > Maybe a "Smog test Dyno" might work? Has > anyone tried one of > these for tuning as opposed to Smog Testing? I asked at a local smog shop; and was told that most of the units could not handle enough power for full load even with a relatively small engine. Apparently the smog test is done under light load (cruise conditions) and small dynos are cheaper than big ones. However, they claimed to have a larger unit that could handle up to 150 rwhp, and were willing to sell me dyno time by the hour. Unfortunately, I never took them up on the offer; don't even know if they are still there. ISTR the shop was off of Artesia Blvd in Bellflower, CA, but that's not much to go on. And after they insisted on testing my Chevy in 3rd gear (leading to a failure because the EGR valve wouldn't open at such high manifold vacuum), I never went back. If they quoted a price for an hour of dyno time, I don't remember it. Randall fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 31 16:28:45 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:28:45 EDT Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn - Corning (Painted Post) Zippo Grand Prix 2008 Message-ID: FoT Entrants and Attendees: I got a reply on my 'Request for Proposal' from Hampton Inn: Facility name: Hampton Inn Corning The quote per room that I received was for $114.00 per night. No additional costs for doubles or added people. Flat Rate. The maximum rooms blocked is 20 Rooms The reservations will be made under the organization name of: THE FRIENDS OF TRIUMPH..........to acquire that special rate. I have not accepted the proposal, yet, but plan to. Please respond once more to me, then I will follow through. I prefer that you make your own reservations. (with one or two exceptions) Once I block these rooms off, I will provide the information to you in order to make the reservations. Joe Alexander From riverside at cedar-rapids.net Wed Oct 31 16:45:08 2007 From: riverside at cedar-rapids.net (riverside) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:45:08 -0600 Subject: [Fot] GT6 body in wisconsin Message-ID: <000201c81c1d$22054860$35dd9f04@your55e5f9e3d2> I had computer mishap andm lost most of my inbox including some corrrespondence with an fot'er who offered a GT6 body. Would he please get back with me. Thanks. art de armond From spitlist at cox.net Wed Oct 31 18:37:05 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:37:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] GT6 body in wisconsin In-Reply-To: <000201c81c1d$22054860$35dd9f04@your55e5f9e3d2> References: <000201c81c1d$22054860$35dd9f04@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: <000f01c81c1f$53c8c690$2202a8c0@newcomputer> It was Scott Barr, I think. And the body I am pretty sure is the one he got from me. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of riverside Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:45 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] GT6 body in wisconsin I had computer mishap andm lost most of my inbox including some corrrespondence with an fot'er who offered a GT6 body. Would he please get back with me. Thanks. art de armond spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 31 19:21:00 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] GT6 body in wisconsin In-Reply-To: <000f01c81c1f$53c8c690$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: <311222.2638.qm@web57602.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Scott does in fact have a GT-6 tub and his dad, Jerry, has a complete GT-6. Joe Curry wrote: It was Scott Barr, I think. And the body I am pretty sure is the one he got from me. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of riverside Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:45 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] GT6 body in wisconsin I had computer mishap andm lost most of my inbox including some corrrespondence with an fot'er who offered a GT6 body. Would he please get back with me. Thanks. art de armond spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 31 20:49:47 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:49:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] THE HAMPTON INN HIGH ROLLERS Message-ID: FoT Well here we are so far......enough to proceed with accepting the proposal from the Hampton Inn. I'll be back to you with the info, so you can make your reservations. Regards, Joe Alexander KAS & PEG KASTNER JACK & FRANCES DREWS CARY PERKET (2) CRAIG WENSLEY KEN GANO KEITH & DENISE FILES (2) JIM MC ANDREW ED DIEHL & FRIENDS TONY SCHEACH JOHN HERRERA From alfetta95 at optonline.net Mon Oct 1 05:53:48 2007 From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (alfetta95 at optonline.net) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 11:53:48 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Fot] Bill Troup's TR4 In-Reply-To: <20070930.223420.11184.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> References: <20070930.223420.11184.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Joe, I don't know about the TR4. Just wanted to know how you did at the NARRC Runoffs? Was it a large turnout? Todd Redmond ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Boruch Date: Sunday, September 30, 2007 10:36 pm Subject: [Fot] Bill Troup's TR4 To: fot at autox.team.net > While at racing at the SCCA NARRC Chapionship race at Lime Rock > this past > weekend some folks that raced in the 1960's-70's were telling me > about a TR4 > that Bill Troup (spelling???) built and raced in the Northeast. > Sounded like > a car that was ahead of its time. Is anyone familiar with what > happened to > the car? Apparently Bill passed away some time ago and no one > that I came > across knew what happened to the car. Joe(B) > > _____________________________________________________________ > Largest network of startups. Find new startup opportunities. > Click here. > http://3rdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlQfILSztxbTZwew2l7Kv0yZSO > 8EeKiUMGpbYyvqLlWgoamO/ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > alfetta95 at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From DSPGTi at aol.com Mon Oct 1 06:41:46 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 08:41:46 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR8 engine for sale Message-ID: Over this past weekend, a friend of mine and I took his race car that we are running in this weekends Enduro at Watkins Glen to a SCCA tech inspector for an annual stamp. Maybe some of you in the East would know Steve Limbert, a long time SCCA official, racer, prep shop and now avid Vintage racer specializing in air cooled Porsches. Since our conversations were mostly about vintage racing and the subject of Triumphs came up, he asked me if I knew anyone that might be interested in a TR8 motor he had laying around for some time. I didn't get many details but I believe he said it was a fresh motor, never run, bone stock, complete with intake but no carbs. I'm sure someone out there would at least have a passing interest? Price?? I didn't ask. I'm sure it won't be cheap. If you know Steve or saw his Toter Home Rig and racing Porsches, you know it takes a lot to support that kind of habit. If you are interested in contacting him, he can be reached by phone, email or visit his very interesting shop in Wellsville (near York) Pennsylvania. Steve Limbert Air Cooled Racing 1560 Old Mountain Rd. Wellsville, PA 17365 _www.aircooledracing.com_ (http://www.aircooledracing.com) Good Luck, Dave Yeager ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From DSPGTi at aol.com Mon Oct 1 06:44:19 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 08:44:19 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR8 engine for sale Message-ID: I forgot to include his phone number 717-432-4116 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 1 07:47:45 2007 From: dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net (dale oesterle) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 06:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] 1300 block needed Message-ID: <307395.48859.qm@web82211.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am once again looking for an early 1300 block (or complete motor)[Spitfire Mark III, FD or FE designation]. Thanks. Dale Oesterle From twakeman at razzolink.com Mon Oct 1 08:24:34 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 07:24:34 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser failures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47010322.3060306@razzolink.com> I read all the replies (THANKS!) and per suggestions have: - Sanded the coating off the condenser - installed a new condenser mounting bracket - added a ground wire from the screw holding the condenser bracket in place to a screw holding the coil to the block - replaced the coil - made a blood offering beneath the full moon to both the Lucas and Mallory deities, requesting that they play well together Hopefully the new Mallory condenser will now last longer in my TR. Thanks for all your suggestions to this evidently all to common problem. TeriAnn From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 1 08:41:57 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:41:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 Message-ID: Can anyone help Jack? What can I pass along to him? Thanks! ......my wife and I headed out yesterday in my TR-2 and met up with 2 other couples, one in an MG-TF and the other in a TR-4. It was one of those perfect days, sunny, but cool! Given the cool air temperature, I wouldn't have expected my car to run hot. However, when we got stuck in traffic, and had to sit for a few minutes, the temperature gauge started to climb. This car has always run hot! I don't think it has ever caused any damage, as I keep my eye on the temp gauge, and if it gets too hot, I just turn the engine off until traffic clears, and I can get out on an open road and get the air moving through the radiator. Besides, these old beasts are pretty durable! So, I've put up with this problem for 15+ years. Enough is enough! I've decided to do something about it this winter. I've already got a TR-6 fan, which will pull a lot more air through the radiator. While I have the front apron off to install the new fan, I'm also thinking about upgrading the radiator. My current radiator is completely stock. I had a new core installed when I restored the car (15+ years ago), and it doesn't have a lot of miles on it (probably less than 10,000). Obviously, it's not quite doing the job. What are the race car guys doing for radiators these days? Does anyone make a high efficiency aluminum radiator, that is basically the same configuration as the stock one, can be bolted right in, without making any modifications to the car, and doesn't require taking a second mortgage to pay for it? If something like this is available, I think this is probably the answer to my cooling problem. Do you know of a source for a radiator like this, or do you know anyone (or business) who I can contact, who might be able to help? Thanks, Joe. Jack From jsnook at wcnet.org Mon Oct 1 09:02:13 2007 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:02:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 References: Message-ID: <006401c8043c$0cd8e8f0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Jack, et al, November last year we installed a aluminum radiator in my TR3A produced by Wizard Cooling of NY. Cost was $495 + shipping. Quite a nice piece, installed fairly easily and has held up quite well so far. I just checked their website http://www.wizardcooling.com/index.htm but could not find a link to the TR2/3 radiator but I'm sure if you called them they could make one for you. Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 10:41 AM Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 Can anyone help Jack? What can I pass along to him? Thanks! ......my wife and I headed out yesterday in my TR-2 and met up with 2 other couples, one in an MG-TF and the other in a TR-4. It was one of those perfect days, sunny, but cool! Given the cool air temperature, I wouldn't have expected my car to run hot. However, when we got stuck in traffic, and had to sit for a few minutes, the temperature gauge started to climb. This car has always run hot! I don't think it has ever caused any damage, as I keep my eye on the temp gauge, and if it gets too hot, I just turn the engine off until traffic clears, and I can get out on an open road and get the air moving through the radiator. Besides, these old beasts are pretty durable! So, I've put up with this problem for 15+ years. Enough is enough! I've decided to do something about it this winter. I've already got a TR-6 fan, which will pull a lot more air through the radiator. While I have the front apron off to install the new fan, I'm also thinking about upgrading the radiator. My current radiator is completely stock. I had a new core installed when I restored the car (15+ years ago), and it doesn't have a lot of miles on it (probably less than 10,000). Obviously, it's not quite doing the job. What are the race car guys doing for radiators these days? Does anyone make a high efficiency aluminum radiator, that is basically the same configuration as the stock one, can be bolted right in, without making any modifications to the car, and doesn't require taking a second mortgage to pay for it? If something like this is available, I think this is probably the answer to my cooling problem. Do you know of a source for a radiator like this, or do you know anyone (or business) who I can contact, who might be able to help? Thanks, Joe. Jack _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html jsnook_gmi at wcnet.org Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gripdad at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 1 11:04:28 2007 From: gripdad at sbcglobal.net (Bill Manning) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] 1300 block needed In-Reply-To: <307395.48859.qm@web82211.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <408691.31111.qm@web81606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dale, I have a small journal 1300 block that looks like it was run for a period of time with worn thrust washers. Not sure if this is a terminal problem or not but if you want it come and get it. I'm in Los Angeles. Bill 818-703-5956 dale oesterle wrote: I am once again looking for an early 1300 block (or complete motor)[Spitfire Mark III, FD or FE designation]. Thanks. Dale Oesterle From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 1 11:25:52 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:25:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 Message-ID: FoT Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in 2008. Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming to the Glen. Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. Two very extraordinary individuals. Joe Alexander From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 1 11:29:01 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:29:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That would indeed be cool. If he does come he should bring his helmet and driving gear. I'd certainly volunteer Peyote for a one session, I be other guys would too. On Oct 1, 2007, at 10:25 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT > > Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in > 2008. > > Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > > He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming > to the > Glen. > > Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > > Two very extraordinary individuals. > > Joe Alexander > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Mon Oct 1 11:33:14 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (CHARLES DELAUER) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:33:14 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm going to talk to Carl Stirtz and the gang about getting Steve Froines more involved in this stuff...He was national champ in a tr4 in about 1964, and is still around racing a lot Racer Bud sonoma ca. >From: N197TR4 at cs.com >To: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:25:52 EDT > >FoT > >Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in 2008. > >Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > >He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming to the >Glen. > >Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > >Two very extraordinary individuals. > >Joe Alexander >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >budscars at msn.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From n197tr4 at cs.com Mon Oct 1 11:47:50 2007 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:47:50 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 Message-ID: <380-220071011174750646@M2W004.mail2web.com> i am not sure but his championship car might be there, too. DON? Original Message: ----------------- From: Bill Babcock billb at bnj.com Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:29:01 -0700 To: fot at autox.team.net, N197TR4 at cs.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 That would indeed be cool. If he does come he should bring his helmet and driving gear. I'd certainly volunteer Peyote for a one session, I be other guys would too. On Oct 1, 2007, at 10:25 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT > > Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in > 2008. > > Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > > He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming > to the > Glen. > > Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > > Two very extraordinary individuals. > > Joe Alexander > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft. Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange From n197tr4 at cs.com Mon Oct 1 11:55:48 2007 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:55:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines Message-ID: <380-220071011175548467@M2W019.mail2web.com> we would certainly encourage that!!! thanks & keep me posted. Original Message: ----------------- From: CHARLES DELAUER budscars at msn.com Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:33:14 +0000 To: N197TR4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 I'm going to talk to Carl Stirtz and the gang about getting Steve Froines more involved in this stuff...He was national champ in a tr4 in about 1964, and is still around racing a lot Racer Bud sonoma ca. >From: N197TR4 at cs.com >To: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:25:52 EDT > >FoT > >Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in 2008. > >Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > >He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming to the >Glen. > >Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > >Two very extraordinary individuals. > >Joe Alexander >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >budscars at msn.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com  What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint From budscars at msn.com Mon Oct 1 12:27:11 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (CHARLES DELAUER) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 18:27:11 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines In-Reply-To: <380-220071011175548467@M2W019.mail2web.com> Message-ID: In fact..the light blue tr4 that tide Ebding races is Steve's 'Ol Blue' championship car Racer Bud >From: "n197tr4 at cs.com" >Reply-To: n197tr4 at cs.com >To: budscars at msn.com, n197tr4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: RE: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:55:48 -0400 > >we would certainly encourage that!!! thanks & keep me posted. > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: CHARLES DELAUER budscars at msn.com >Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:33:14 +0000 >To: N197TR4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: RE: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 > > >I'm going to talk to Carl Stirtz and the gang about getting Steve Froines >more involved in this stuff...He was national champ in a tr4 in about 1964, >and is still around racing a lot >Racer Bud sonoma ca. > > > >From: N197TR4 at cs.com > >To: fot at autox.team.net > >Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 > >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:25:52 EDT > > > >FoT > > > >Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in 2008. > > > >Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > > > >He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming to the > >Glen. > > > >Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > > > >Two very extraordinary individuals. > > > >Joe Alexander > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >budscars at msn.com > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web.com  What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? >http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint From jeff_durant at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 12:57:25 2007 From: jeff_durant at comcast.net (jeff_durant at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 18:57:25 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's Message-ID: <456089628-1191265143-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2124543086-@bxe016.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Do any of you FOT'ers have a recommendation of a good machine shop in the SF Bay Area? I am prepping 3x TR250/6 blocks and need someone to line bore the cam journals to accept Spitfire cam bearings. Trying to get my TR6 #12 back on the track for next season. Thanks, Jeff D. TR4a '67 TR250 '68 TR6 '69 #12 Mini Cooper '69 (yeah, I know!) Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From vintage.racer at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 13:04:59 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:04:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines In-Reply-To: References: <380-220071011175548467@M2W019.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <000001c8045d$f7451af0$e5cf50d0$@racer@comcast.net> Bud, et al: Steve Froines is a friend of mine so I'll encourage him to join in on the fun at The Glen next year. Steve retired from racing last year after selling his beautifully restored Cooper shortly after the 2006 Monterey Historics. He just celebrated his 70th birthday a few weeks ago. Regarding "Ole Blue", his former racecar has been in the capable hands of long-time friend Tide Ebding. The car has not been in action for over a year due to an engine replacement. Not sure of the current status but will find out from Steve. Gary -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CHARLES DELAUER Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:27 AM To: n197tr4 at cs.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines In fact..the light blue tr4 that tide Ebding races is Steve's 'Ol Blue' championship car Racer Bud >From: "n197tr4 at cs.com" >Reply-To: n197tr4 at cs.com >To: budscars at msn.com, n197tr4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: RE: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 now Froines >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:55:48 -0400 > >we would certainly encourage that!!! thanks & keep me posted. > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: CHARLES DELAUER budscars at msn.com >Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:33:14 +0000 >To: N197TR4 at cs.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: RE: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 > > >I'm going to talk to Carl Stirtz and the gang about getting Steve Froines >more involved in this stuff...He was national champ in a tr4 in about 1964, >and is still around racing a lot >Racer Bud sonoma ca. > > > >From: N197TR4 at cs.com > >To: fot at autox.team.net > >Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 > >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:25:52 EDT > > > >FoT > > > >Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in 2008. > > > >Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > > > >He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming to the > >Glen. > > > >Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > > > >Two very extraordinary individuals. > > > >Joe Alexander > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >budscars at msn.com > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web.com  What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? >http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 1 13:05:52 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:05:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen..sponsorship announcement for the Kastner Cup Challenge Message-ID: FoT, I am pleased to announce that Classic Motorsports Magazine is our sponsor for the 2008 FOT Triumph Race at Watkins Glen: "THE KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE" presented by CLASSIC MOTORSPORTS MAGAZINE. Tim Suddard, publisher of Grassroots Motorsports and Classic Motorsports Magazines is sponsoring our race at the Glen and is going to support us with advertising and promotion of this event, as sanctioned by SVRA. Additionally, the Entrant Names, Triumphs and Home State for this event will be published in Classic Motorsports at sometime during early 2008, when the early bird entries are in. Regards, Joe A From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Mon Oct 1 13:22:13 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:22:13 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen..sponsorship announcement for the Kastner Cup Challenge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820AC800CB@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> A true friend of Triumph coming through again. Thanks Tim. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 2:06 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: Jensen87 at aol.com Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen..sponsorship announcement for the Kastner Cup Challenge FoT, I am pleased to announce that Classic Motorsports Magazine is our sponsor for the 2008 FOT Triumph Race at Watkins Glen: "THE KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE" presented by CLASSIC MOTORSPORTS MAGAZINE. Tim Suddard, publisher of Grassroots Motorsports and Classic Motorsports Magazines is sponsoring our race at the Glen and is going to support us with advertising and promotion of this event, as sanctioned by SVRA. Additionally, the Entrant Names, Triumphs and Home State for this event will be published in Classic Motorsports at sometime during early 2008, when the early bird entries are in. Regards, Joe A rkramer at rdoequipment.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From ofbracing at nefcom.net Mon Oct 1 13:40:24 2007 From: ofbracing at nefcom.net (Don Marshall) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:40:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 In-Reply-To: <380-220071011174750646@M2W004.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <008201c80462$e99ac6c0$2001a8c0@Dell5100Laptop> At this point it looks very doubtful that we'll make it. Don -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+ofbracing=nefcom.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+ofbracing=nefcom.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of n197tr4 at cs.com Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 1:48 PM To: billb at bnj.com; fot at autox.team.net; n197tr4 at cs.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 i am not sure but his championship car might be there, too. DON? Original Message: ----------------- From: Bill Babcock billb at bnj.com Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:29:01 -0700 To: fot at autox.team.net, N197TR4 at cs.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Jack Wheeler at the Glen in 2008 That would indeed be cool. If he does come he should bring his helmet and driving gear. I'd certainly volunteer Peyote for a one session, I be other guys would too. On Oct 1, 2007, at 10:25 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FoT > > Jack Wheeler has accepted an invitation to join us at the Glen in > 2008. > > Jack was SCCA National Champion in a Triumph. > > He has joined at various other venues, and looks forward to coming > to the > Glen. > > Now if we could Hardy Prentice to come, that would be cool. > > Two very extraordinary individuals. > > Joe Alexander > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft. Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange ofbracing at nefcom.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1040 - Release Date: 9/30/2007 9:01 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1040 - Release Date: 9/30/2007 9:01 PM From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 1 13:53:15 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen..sponsorship announcement for the Kastner Cup Challenge In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <834073.33718.qm@web57601.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Thanks Tim. N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT, I am pleased to announce that Classic Motorsports Magazine is our sponsor for the 2008 FOT Triumph Race at Watkins Glen: --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. From trmarty at hotmail.com Mon Oct 1 13:56:25 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:56:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Question Of the Day Message-ID: Ok oh knowledgeable ones, splain something to me. On the TR6 the rear axle assembly consists of a two piece splined half shaft. When the wheel goes up and down through its normal suspension travel the splines allow the axle to shorten and lengthen slightly thereby allowing the hub to be in the same fixed location corresponding to the arc traveled by the a-arm. Im not sure that is the proper description but I hope you know what I mean. Now lets move on to this Spitfire Im tinkering with. It has upgraded axles, one piece design with an outer roller bearing and inner needle bearing. The axles are a fixed length; the stack up is what it is. With this length being fixed, does not the flange location float in relationship to the hub as the suspension travels? I guess that should be a statement not a question. This just does not appear correct in my limited though process. Doesnt this allow a shift in the relationship of the brake drum to the brake shoes? Am I just making a mountain out of a mole hill and I should just accept that that just the way it is? What say ye? Thanks, Marty _________________________________________________________________ Discover the new Windows Vista http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 1 14:16:12 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:16:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's In-Reply-To: <456089628-1191265143-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2124543086-@bxe016.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <456089628-1191265143-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2124543086-@bxe016.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: I don't know if he does that kind of work, but one of the best machinists I know of is in Oakland--Bill Smith at Smith Machine and Quandary. On Oct 1, 2007, at 11:57 AM, jeff_durant at comcast.net wrote: > Do any of you FOT'ers have a recommendation of a good machine shop > in the SF Bay Area? I am prepping 3x TR250/6 blocks and need > someone to line bore the cam journals to accept Spitfire cam > bearings. Trying to get my TR6 #12 back on the track for next season. > Thanks, > Jeff D. > TR4a '67 > TR250 '68 > TR6 '69 #12 > Mini Cooper '69 (yeah, I know!) > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Mon Oct 1 14:30:52 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:30:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Answer Of the Day Message-ID: In a message dated 10/1/2007 3:57:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, trmarty at hotmail.com writes: Am I just making a mountain out of a mole hill and I should just accept that that just the way it is? What say ye? uhh, I think you're confusing the spitfire suspension with a REAL suspension system... Welcome to the world of swing axles! Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From fogbro1 at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 14:32:53 2007 From: fogbro1 at comcast.net (Ed Woods) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:32:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 References: <006401c8043c$0cd8e8f0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Message-ID: <008901c8046a$3e2389a0$6700a8c0@Edscomputer> If you're looking for a TR radiator in aluminium, contact Art Lipp at LIPP04 at yahoo.com NFI Ed Woods From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 14:45:11 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:45:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Answer Of the Day References: Message-ID: <00ba01c8046b$f6948740$0200a8c0@Desktop> Hmmm........may he needs to work a corvair ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Answer Of the Day > In a message dated 10/1/2007 3:57:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > trmarty at hotmail.com writes: > > Am I just making a mountain > out of a mole hill and I should just accept that that just the way it is? > What > say ye? > uhh, I think you're confusing the spitfire suspension with a REAL > suspension > system... > Welcome to the world of swing axles! > Glen > > > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Mon Oct 1 14:58:05 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:58:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Question Of the Day References: Message-ID: <007f01c8046d$c3d01700$2d02a8c0@Belkin> Yes, on all swing axle cars the axle is the lower control element and the spring is the uppre control element. This causes a number of concerns. Increase in positive camber when the suspension is in downward travel relative to the diff. seems to be the biggest concern. But the relationship of the brake shoes and drum is not one of them. theyy area always on the same plain. The main advantage of the variable length axle shaftw on the 6 is that there can be separate upper and lower control elements independent of the axle and therefore not cause such radical changes in camber as the suspension raises and lowers. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" To: "FOT" Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 12:56 PM Subject: [Fot] Stupid Spitfire Question Of the Day > Ok oh knowledgeable ones, splain something to me. On the TR6 the rear axle > assembly consists of a two piece splined half shaft. When the wheel goes up > and down through its normal suspension travel the splines allow the axle to > shorten and lengthen slightly thereby allowing the hub to be in the same fixed > location corresponding to the arc traveled by the a-arm. Im not sure that is > the proper description but I hope you know what I mean. Now lets move on to > this Spitfire Im tinkering with. It has upgraded axles, one piece design with > an outer roller bearing and inner needle bearing. The axles are a fixed > length; the stack up is what it is. With this length being fixed, does not the > flange location float in relationship to the hub as the suspension travels? I > guess that should be a statement not a question. This just does not appear > correct in my limited though process. Doesnt this allow a shift in the > relationship of the brake drum to the brake shoes? Am I just making a mountain > out of a mole hill and I should just accept that that just the way it is? What > say ye? > > Thanks, > Marty > _________________________________________________________________ > Discover the new Windows Vista > http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gasket.works at verizon.net Mon Oct 1 16:13:43 2007 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Gasket Works USA) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:13:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets Message-ID: <11122791.30486841191276824057.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> I have made these sealing rings in various thickness. If you look at the surfaces that you need to seal. i.e. the flat in the block and the flat on the sleeve -you can see that they are flat and smooth. I can't see why copper is inherently better at sealing than steel. What I can say is that there will likely be less galvanic effects and material such as brass or copper will work just fine. Even if the the copper were annealed dead soft -I can't believe that the copper would compress and flatten out more than an imperceptable amount. I once saved a cylinder sleave by machining .132" off the top and building a series of individual coppper rings to bring the sleave to propper height. There was still more than enough capture in the block. M M.N.Dunst Gasket Works USA, LLC gmt-8 Pacific time 626.358.1616 voice 626.628.3777 fax From budscars at msn.com Mon Oct 1 16:39:09 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:39:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's References: <456089628-1191265143-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2124543086-@bxe016.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: I reccomend Carl stirtz at Stirtz machine in Oakland He's been doing triumph and other racing and stock engines for years..He just did my Spitfire engine....and is on the FOT..he's building a TR4 and has 2 formula juniors.. stirtz machine 510 536 2772 stirtzmachine at aol.com Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: Cc: "FOT" Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's >I don't know if he does that kind of work, but one of the best > machinists I know of is in Oakland--Bill Smith at Smith Machine and > Quandary. > > On Oct 1, 2007, at 11:57 AM, jeff_durant at comcast.net wrote: > >> Do any of you FOT'ers have a recommendation of a good machine shop >> in the SF Bay Area? I am prepping 3x TR250/6 blocks and need >> someone to line bore the cam journals to accept Spitfire cam >> bearings. Trying to get my TR6 #12 back on the track for next season. >> Thanks, >> Jeff D. >> TR4a '67 >> TR250 '68 >> TR6 '69 #12 >> Mini Cooper '69 (yeah, I know!) >> >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> billb at bnj.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cartravel at pobox.com Mon Oct 1 17:11:30 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 18:11:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47017EA2.10106@pobox.com> I am using a commodity Chevy aluminum radiator (TruKool 22x19) from Speedway Motors for about $140. It fits nicely between the inner fenders with about an inch to spare on each side. It required some creative plumbing and some simple mounting brackets on the bottom. I've got some photos somewhere if that would help. It can idle 15 minutes with no fan before it starts to overheat. Never a problem when you're moving. I believe there are other racers using this setup. For a street car, you'd probably have to use an electric fan. This is ONO (obviously not original). N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > Can anyone help Jack? What can I pass along to him? Thanks! From stutzmans at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 18:40:12 2007 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:40:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 References: <006401c8043c$0cd8e8f0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Message-ID: <004c01c8048c$cb02f3c0$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> Isn't that the radiator the Roadster Factory is selling? Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Snook" To: ; Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 > Jack, et al, > > November last year we installed a aluminum radiator in my TR3A produced by > Wizard Cooling of NY. Cost was $495 + shipping. Quite a nice piece, > installed fairly easily and has held up quite well so far. I just checked > their website http://www.wizardcooling.com/index.htm but could not find a > link > to the TR2/3 radiator but I'm sure if you called them they could make one > for > you. > > Jeff Snook > http://www.snooksdreamcars.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 10:41 AM > Subject: [Fot] Jack Wheeler is looking for alloy radiator for his TR2 > > > Can anyone help Jack? What can I pass along to him? Thanks! > > ......my wife and I headed out yesterday in my TR-2 and met up with 2 > other > couples, one in an MG-TF and the other in a TR-4. It was one of those > perfect > days, sunny, but cool! Given the cool air temperature, I wouldn't have > expected my car to run hot. However, when we got stuck in traffic, and > had > to sit > for a few minutes, the temperature gauge started to climb. This car has > always > run hot! I don't think it has ever caused any damage, as I keep my eye on > the > temp gauge, and if it gets too hot, I just turn the engine off until > traffic > clears, and I can get out on an open road and get the air moving through > the > radiator. Besides, these old beasts are pretty durable! > > So, I've put up with this problem for 15+ years. Enough is enough! I've > decided to do something about it this winter. I've already got a TR-6 > fan, > which > will pull a lot more air through the radiator. While I have the front > apron > off to install the new fan, I'm also thinking about upgrading the > radiator. > My current radiator is completely stock. I had a new core installed when > I > restored the car (15+ years ago), and it doesn't have a lot of miles on > it > (probably less than 10,000). Obviously, it's not quite doing the job. > What > are the > race car guys doing for radiators these days? Does anyone make a high > efficiency aluminum radiator, that is basically the same configuration as > the stock > one, can be bolted right in, without making any modifications to the car, > and > doesn't require taking a second mortgage to pay for it? If something > like > this is available, I think this is probably the answer to my cooling > problem. Do > you know of a source for a radiator like this, or do you know anyone (or > business) who I can contact, who might be able to help? > > Thanks, Joe. > > Jack > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > jsnook_gmi at wcnet.org > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > stutzmans at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Mon Oct 1 19:16:32 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 21:16:32 EDT Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's Message-ID: Isn't Greg Solow's Engine r\Room in your neighborhood? Who could ask for more? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From stlnyc at msn.com Mon Oct 1 19:43:16 2007 From: stlnyc at msn.com (Fred & Mary Hodgson) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 19:43:16 -0600 Subject: [Fot] elgibility question References: Message-ID: Marty- RMVR allows cars thru 1972. Fred Hodgson ----- Original Message ----- From: marty sukey To: FOT Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 9:06 AM Subject: [Fot] elgibility question Hey you folks that run with all the different organizations. What is the current cut off year for vehicle elgibility for your Vintage race groups? Thanks, Marty _________________________________________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&m kt=en-us _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html stlnyc at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From m-syork at comcast.net Mon Oct 1 20:17:45 2007 From: m-syork at comcast.net (Mark York) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 19:17:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets In-Reply-To: <11122791.30486841191276824057.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> References: <11122791.30486841191276824057.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <000301c8049a$6c08f460$36b3c547@markv8zno7deim> Thanks to all the input on the figure 8 gaskets, I will tell the shop to proceed with steel. And Bill, I'm putting in a new set of batteries in the cattle prod. The TR3 has been on the shelf for a year (no racing stripes in my nomex underwear); I'm starting to go through withdrawals. Mark -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+m-syork=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+m-syork=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gasket Works USA Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 3:14 PM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Copper vs steel figure 8 gaskets I have made these sealing rings in various thickness. If you look at the surfaces that you need to seal. i.e. the flat in the block and the flat on the sleeve -you can see that they are flat and smooth. I can't see why copper is inherently better at sealing than steel. What I can say is that there will likely be less galvanic effects and material such as brass or copper will work just fine. Even if the the copper were annealed dead soft -I can't believe that the copper would compress and flatten out more than an imperceptable amount. I once saved a cylinder sleave by machining .132" off the top and building a series of individual coppper rings to bring the sleave to propper height. There was still more than enough capture in the block. M M.N.Dunst Gasket Works USA, LLC gmt-8 Pacific time 626.358.1616 voice 626.628.3777 fax Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cak at dimebank.com Mon Oct 1 20:34:53 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 19:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's Message-ID: <200710020234.l922Yr1p021707@moose.dimebank.com> Elgin in Redwood City has a long history of working on little British cars. Dick Nyquist used to swear by Clark's Machine Shop in Mtn View (my listing still has a 415 area code, so it's been a while). I've always gone to Name: Kaeding Performance Address: San Jose, CA Phone: (408) 371-3031 They cater to roundy-round racers, but don't mind working on little engines, too. From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Oct 1 20:37:29 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:37:29 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's References: Message-ID: The rumor is the Engine Room's days are looking @ retirement... hope not. Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: budscars at msn.com ; jeff_durant at comcast.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's Isn't Greg Solow's Engine r\Room in your neighborhood? Who could ask for more? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jeff_durant at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 08:59:54 2007 From: jeff_durant at comcast.net (jeff_durant at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:59:54 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <589333505-1191337292-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1812871117-@bxe016.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Thanks Gary, Bill, Bud, Steve, Kevin and Chuck for the SF area machine shop recommendations! Quite a choice. I best collect up my 3x TR250/6 blocks and make a few calls. I'm excited already as my TR6 has been idle for 12 years. You know the story....the kids are older and when I told the wife I was building my BSA engine to race ARMA in the spring, she told me to race the 6 again. She figured 4 wheels are safer than 2 for my aging bones. What a deal! Just finished 2x wide port heads and a 2nd Stag based CR gearbox. Does anyone have any Kastner 1.88 CR bits? I need a 2nd mainshaft gear for one of his gearsets. Thanks, Jeff TR6 #12 Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "KEVIN LYNCH" Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:37:29 To:,,, Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's The rumor is the Engine Room's days are looking @ retirement... hope not. Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: budscars at msn.com ; jeff_durant at comcast.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's Isn't Greg Solow's Engine r\Room in your neighborhood? Who could ask for more? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 09:09:43 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:09:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 Message-ID: <000001c80506$4358b9d0$171a694c@computer> Would a rear spoiler have a noticeable effect on a TR6 for autocrossing? Would the spoiler cause any eligibility problems for vintage racing? Any thoughts? Thanks, Jim [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From vintage.racer at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 09:48:16 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:48:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 In-Reply-To: <000001c80506$4358b9d0$171a694c@computer> References: <000001c80506$4358b9d0$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <000001c8050b$a68e4560$f3aad020$@racer@comcast.net> Jim: If I recall correctly from a road test article about the Porsche 911 with a deployable spoiler, it actuated at 60 mph which is the speed they felt it would begin to have an effect. I doubt most vintage race organizations would allow a rear spoiler. Gary -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jim hearn Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:10 AM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 Would a rear spoiler have a noticeable effect on a TR6 for autocrossing? Would the spoiler cause any eligibility problems for vintage racing? Any thoughts? Thanks, Jim [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Oct 2 09:53:40 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:53:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/02/2007 10:48:32 AM Central Daylight Time, vintage.racer at comcast.net writes: > If I recall correctly from a road test article about the Porsche 911 with a > deployable spoiler, it actuated at 60 mph which is the speed they felt it > would begin to have an effect. I doubt most vintage race organizations > would allow a rear spoiler. > > Most vintage groups don't want fender flairs, I doubt they will allow a spoiler. I would be against allowing them. My wife has a very early Chrysler Crossfire (two digit serial number). It too has a rear spoiler that pops up automatically at about 57 mph. It looks really neat, but I have no idea how effective it is. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Tue Oct 2 09:57:15 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:57:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 References: <000001c80506$4358b9d0$171a694c@computer> <000001c8050b$a68e4560$f3aad020$@racer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001401c8050c$e79c5d70$0501000a@Chowdown> It would help if the car was aerodynamic to begin with. ~S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Horstkorta" To: "'jim hearn'" ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 > Jim: > > If I recall correctly from a road test article about the Porsche 911 with > a > deployable spoiler, it actuated at 60 mph which is the speed they felt it > would begin to have an effect. I doubt most vintage race organizations > would allow a rear spoiler. > > Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > jim hearn > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:10 AM > To: FOT at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 > > Would a rear spoiler have a noticeable effect on a TR6 for autocrossing? > Would the spoiler cause any eligibility problems for vintage racing? Any > thoughts? Thanks, Jim > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a > name of winmail.dat] > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vintage.racer at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 10:04:58 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:04:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 In-Reply-To: <001401c8050c$e79c5d70$0501000a@Chowdown> References: <000001c80506$4358b9d0$171a694c@computer> <000001c8050b$a68e4560$f3aad020$@racer@comcast.net> <001401c8050c$e79c5d70$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <000a01c8050d$fbd73d40$f385b7c0$@racer@comcast.net> Steve: Good one...thus the nickname of my racing TR4 - "The Flying Brick". Gary -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Belfer Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:57 AM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 It would help if the car was aerodynamic to begin with. ~S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Horstkorta" To: "'jim hearn'" ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 > Jim: > > If I recall correctly from a road test article about the Porsche 911 with > a > deployable spoiler, it actuated at 60 mph which is the speed they felt it > would begin to have an effect. I doubt most vintage race organizations > would allow a rear spoiler. > > Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > jim hearn > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:10 AM > To: FOT at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 > > Would a rear spoiler have a noticeable effect on a TR6 for autocrossing? > Would the spoiler cause any eligibility problems for vintage racing? Any > thoughts? Thanks, Jim > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a > name of winmail.dat] > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > colordog.1 at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Tue Oct 2 10:08:46 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:08:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 References: Message-ID: <00c501c8050e$82e0a2e0$5717c548@RW> On pages starting at 187 of my Historical and Technical Guide (book two) I did a recap and photos of the testing of a rear spoiler I did for the TR-6. back in 1970. It was absolutely marvelous. This was race track testing so I cannot account for slower speeds but in turn 8 & 9 at Willow Springs, it took all the "hee-haw" out of the fast corners. It looked great also. The SCCA would not allow it, and none were ever listed even after my time at Triumph. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Rear spoiler on a TR6 > In a message dated 10/02/2007 10:48:32 AM Central Daylight Time, > vintage.racer at comcast.net writes: > > >> If I recall correctly from a road test article about the Porsche 911 with >> a >> deployable spoiler, it actuated at 60 mph which is the speed they felt it >> would begin to have an effect. I doubt most vintage race organizations >> would allow a rear spoiler. >> >> > > Most vintage groups don't want fender flairs, I doubt they will allow a > spoiler. I would be against allowing them. > > My wife has a very early Chrysler Crossfire (two digit serial number). It > too has a rear spoiler that pops up automatically at about 57 mph. It > looks > really neat, but I have no idea how effective it is. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Tue Oct 2 10:36:03 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:36:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tran-x Message-ID: <01f601c80512$5305fa30$1a02a8c0@workstation3> FoTers, we have 6 commitments for the Tran-x lsd's. They are going to be shipped via ship and we have several of weeks before they will be sent. So I guess we're making the last call for units if anyone else is interested. If so let me or ken know ASAP so we can get them ordered. Thanks, Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 2 10:43:10 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:43:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: FOT....I am in the process of updating the lists of the Watkins Glen drivers and attendees. I will submit this list to Henry Frye for addition to the FOT Website, after a couple more passes at it. Please read carefully!!!! There is getting to more and more interest from the west coast. If you have any inclination at all, let me hear from you. I heard from a couple of guys in SoCal yesterday and added their names. I have not heard from John James, yet, but expect to. Please read the note below from Ron Jacobs in NorCal....he has a potential transport for his car and three more. ....................................THIS MAY OPEN THE DOOR FOR A FEW MORE TRIUMPHS................... Joe Alexander > Joe: > I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa Racing in > Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern > California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to the Glen. I need > about three other cars to make it very cost effective for transport and a > crew. If any one is interested please contact me. > Ron Jacobs > Western Eagle Racing > -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- > > From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 2 10:55:11 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:55:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1DDFFE79-7D15-4EE9-AE8B-B660E5913373@bnj.com> The most attractive way to do this race for west coasters (I think) is to do the Glen, and then the weekend after do Road America's fall festival--Two great tracks with great racing towns associated with them in two weeks. It will spoil you for life--you'll be looking for that at every track you go to, and never finding anything close. In fact you can do the Zippo at Limerock, the Glen, and RA in a three week sweep. Of the three, I plan to do the Glen and RA. On Oct 2, 2007, at 9:43 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FOT....I am in the process of updating the lists of the Watkins > Glen drivers > and attendees. I will submit this list to Henry Frye for addition > to the FOT > Website, after a couple more passes at it. > > Please read carefully!!!! There is getting to more and more > interest from > the west coast. If you have any inclination at all, let me hear > from you. I > heard from a couple of guys in SoCal yesterday and added their > names. I have > not heard from John James, yet, but expect to. > > Please read the note below from Ron Jacobs in NorCal....he has a > potential > transport for his car and three > more. ....................................THIS > MAY OPEN THE DOOR FOR A FEW MORE TRIUMPHS................... > > Joe Alexander > >> Joe: >> I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa >> Racing in >> Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern >> California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to >> the Glen. I need >> about three other cars to make it very cost effective for >> transport and a >> crew. If any one is interested please contact me. >> Ron Jacobs >> Western Eagle Racing >> -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Oct 2 11:03:55 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:03:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Mallory condenser failures In-Reply-To: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200709222154.l8MLstdK274796@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Sep 2007, Jack W. Drews wrote: [good stuff deleted]> > Huh. Ididn't know there were two series of points. For the Dizzy that I have there are two points numbers, 25042 and 25042X - the "x" designation is for high RPM operation. > uncle jack regards, rml (about two weeks behind!) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Oct 2 11:06:16 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:06:16 -0600 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <188C216C-F04F-4F8D-AC7F-FEC66EF192B7@earthlink.net> Joe, Put me on the list. I may have to forsake a few other out of town events but this sounds too good to pass up - especially if I include Road America in a eastern "tour". Greg Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Oct 2, 2007, at 10:43 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > FOT....I am in the process of updating the lists of the Watkins > Glen drivers > and attendees. I will submit this list to Henry Frye for addition > to the FOT > Website, after a couple more passes at it. > > Please read carefully!!!! There is getting to more and more > interest from > the west coast. If you have any inclination at all, let me hear > from you. I > heard from a couple of guys in SoCal yesterday and added their > names. I have > not heard from John James, yet, but expect to. > > Please read the note below from Ron Jacobs in NorCal....he has a > potential > transport for his car and three > more. ....................................THIS > MAY OPEN THE DOOR FOR A FEW MORE TRIUMPHS................... > > Joe Alexander > >> Joe: >> I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa >> Racing in >> Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern >> California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to >> the Glen. I need >> about three other cars to make it very cost effective for >> transport and a >> crew. If any one is interested please contact me. >> Ron Jacobs >> Western Eagle Racing >> -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > lunkercars at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Oct 2 11:13:42 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:13:42 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/02/2007 11:55:50 AM Central Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: > The most attractive way to do this race for west coasters (I think) > is to do the Glen, and then the weekend after do Road America's fall > festival--Two great tracks with great racing towns associated with > them in two weeks. It will spoil you for life--you'll be looking for > that at every track you go to, and never finding anything close. In > fact you can do the Zippo at Limerock, the Glen, and RA in a three > week sweep. Of the three, I plan to do the Glen and RA. > > While that is a great idea...next year there will be a week end between ZIPPO WATKINS GLEN and the ELKHART LAKE VINTAGE FESTIVAL. This happens because the GLEN event has floating dates (always the week end after Labor Day), whereas the ELVF has a firm week end number every year. Usually ELVF follows ZIPPO the next week end, but every once in a while (including 2008) there is a week end in between. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From John.Reed at wilson.com Tue Oct 2 12:55:35 2007 From: John.Reed at wilson.com (John.Reed at wilson.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:55:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Maybe I should come out of retirement for this one, I always wanted to race The Glen. Put me in as a maybe. Regards, John Reed Staff Photographer Wilson Sporting Goods Co. 8750 W Bryn Mawr Ave, Chicago, Illinois 60631, USA Tel. + 1.773.714.6895, fax +1.773.714.4585 John.Reed at wilson.com www.wilson.com www.amersports.com Please note that effective immediately, my e-mail , phone number and street address have changed. Please update your files accordingly. This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 2 13:17:56 2007 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:17:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-racing TR Events? Message-ID: Are any events scheduled for non-racing Trs? Track touring, old course tour, car show, ??? Maybe I should take The Blue TR3 if Steve will let me do some activities. John From JWoesvra at aol.com Tue Oct 2 13:23:36 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 15:23:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-racing TR Events? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/2/2007 3:18:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jrherrera90 at hotmail.com writes: Are any events scheduled for non-racing Trs? Track touring, old course tour, car show, ??? Maybe I should take The Blue TR3 if Steve will let me do some activities. John _______________________________________________ There are plenty of off-track activities including car shows, ralleys, winery tours, etc. These are handled by the Watkins Glen Festival and you will need to contact them directly. Triumph is the featured marque for the festival too. _http://www.grandprixfestival.com/participant.html_ (http://www.grandprixfestival.com/participant.html) These events always sell out. It is not too soon to sign up. Jack Woehrle ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 2 13:32:29 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 15:32:29 EDT Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-Racing TR Events? Message-ID: John! >From some very early correspondence with SVRA, it was my understanding that the Village of Watkins Glen was going to pay special attention to the TRIUMPH marque. I dont know what the status is of that planning is, but we need it for the press releases, that GRM (Tim Suddard's Group) is going to write for us. Seems like there is always a car show. I am not sure about track touring, but certainly this should be proposed for the FOT and their TRIUMPH Guests. Old Course Touring is highly unlikely, but it wont hurt to ask. There no plans for autocrossing that I am aware of. This was highly successful at Road America, last May, but that was horse of a completely different color. This is a very good inquiry, John. Thanks for asking. Joe Alexander > > Are any events scheduled for non-racing Trs? Track touring, old course tour, > car show, ??? Maybe I should take The Blue TR3 if Steve will let me do some > activities. > > John > From sgroh1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 14:02:48 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (sgroh1 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:02:48 +0000 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: <100220072002.19225.4702A3E8000483BA00004B192213484373CE08019D099C@comcast.net> Joe, I will definitely be attending in my 63 Spit. Also attending will be a crew of 5. Thanks - it promises to be a great event!!! Steve Groh Annapolis, MD #393 SVRA 63 Spitfire -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: N197TR4 at cs.com > FOT....I am in the process of updating the lists of the Watkins Glen drivers > and attendees. I will submit this list to Henry Frye for addition to the FOT > Website, after a couple more passes at it. > > Please read carefully!!!! There is getting to more and more interest from > the west coast. If you have any inclination at all, let me hear from you. I > heard from a couple of guys in SoCal yesterday and added their names. I have > not heard from John James, yet, but expect to. > > Please read the note below from Ron Jacobs in NorCal....he has a potential > transport for his car and three more. ....................................THIS > MAY OPEN THE DOOR FOR A FEW MORE TRIUMPHS................... > > Joe Alexander > > > Joe: > > I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa Racing in > > Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern > > California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to the Glen. I > need > > about three other cars to make it very cost effective for transport and a > > crew. If any one is interested please contact me. > > Ron Jacobs > > Western Eagle Racing > > -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From sgroh1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 14:15:26 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (sgroh1 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:15:26 +0000 Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-racing TR Events? Message-ID: <100220072015.8327.4702A6DE00015325000020872213484373CE08019D099C@comcast.net> John - We'll tow up together....Crew chief position is yours if you want it....which means plenty of opportunity to delegate as you see fit in order to get the TR3 out and about! Looking forward to it! Steve -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "John Herrera" > Are any events scheduled for non-racing Trs? Track touring, old course tour, > car show, ??? Maybe I should take The Blue TR3 if Steve will let me do some > activities. > > John > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > sgroh1 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 2 14:16:06 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:16:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-Racing TR Events? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <879E6FC0-AB3A-4AC4-8B03-CA040583FAB9@bnj.com> Actually, old course touring is part of the event--they take 150 cars downtown and the featured marque gets one lap by themselves, the rest get two. I did it this time in Peyote, it was fun, and I'd definitely do it again. On Oct 2, 2007, at 12:32 PM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > John! > >> From some very early correspondence with SVRA, it was my >> understanding that > the Village of Watkins Glen was going to pay special attention to > the TRIUMPH > marque. I dont know what the status is of that planning is, but we > need it for > the press releases, that GRM (Tim Suddard's Group) is going to > write for us. > > Seems like there is always a car show. I am not sure about track > touring, but > certainly this should be proposed for the FOT and their TRIUMPH > Guests. > > Old Course Touring is highly unlikely, but it wont hurt to ask. > > There no plans for autocrossing that I am aware of. This was highly > successful at Road America, last May, but that was horse of a > completely different > color. > > This is a very good inquiry, John. Thanks for asking. > > Joe Alexander > > >> >> Are any events scheduled for non-racing Trs? Track touring, old >> course tour, >> car show, ??? Maybe I should take The Blue TR3 if Steve will let >> me do some >> activities. >> >> John >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 2 14:23:16 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:23:16 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: OK Steve, I have you on the list.... I am begining to wonder what the Grid Limit is. Anybody know? Joe Alexander > Joe, > > I will definitely be attending in my 63 Spit. Also attending will be a crew > of 5. > > Thanks - it promises to be a great event!!! > > Steve Groh > Annapolis, MD > #393 SVRA > 63 Spitfire > > From emanteno at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 14:28:17 2007 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:28:17 +0000 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: <100220072028.24013.4702A9E1000C198900005DCD2207021053970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: N197TR4 at cs.com > OK Steve, > > I have you on the list.... > > I am begining to wonder what the Grid Limit is. They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many and someone will figure how to get them all on the track. Irv Korey From sgroh1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 14:32:18 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (sgroh1 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:32:18 +0000 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: <100220072032.2578.4702AAD2000944B700000A122213484373CE08019D099C@comcast.net> I think SCCA's GCR recommends no more than 25 per mile of track....roughly 82 then for the Glen full course.....it's the only reg I know of, though, there may be more..... Steve -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: emanteno at comcast.net > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > > > OK Steve, > > > > I have you on the list.... > > > > I am begining to wonder what the Grid Limit is. > > They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many and > someone will figure how to get them all on the track. Irv Korey From: emanteno at comcast.net To: N197TR4 at cs.com, sgroh1 at comcast.net, westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 20:28:18 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from Multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/html -------------- Original message -------------- From: N197TR4 at cs.com > OK Steve, > > I have you on the list.... > > I am begining to wonder what the Grid Limit is. They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many and someone will figure how to get them all on the track. Irv Korey From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 2 14:32:28 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:32:28 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: > They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many > and someone will figure how to get them all on the track. > Irv Korey > egads! staggered starts? OK! We also need to put more pressure on the Brit's....they might be resting on their laurels after VIR. indication are that they are looking forward to 2012 for the 60TH TRIUMPH REUNION, but that is too long to wait, especially fior some of us. Joe A From JWoesvra at aol.com Tue Oct 2 14:35:25 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:35:25 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/2/2007 4:32:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sgroh1 at comcast.net writes: I think SCCA's GCR recommends no more than 25 per mile of track....roughly 82 then for the Glen full course.....it's the only reg I know of, though, there may be more..... That is SCCA. SVRA does not have a limit except practicality. BRING IT ON! ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 2 14:54:29 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <59923.97578.qm@web57614.mail.re1.yahoo.com> No staggered starts. Just split the Triumphs into two qualifing groups and then have a two short qualifing races (heats), with a consolation and feature race like the dirt track guys. I'm sure the other groups won't mind. Ernie N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many > and someone will figure how to get them all on the track. > Irv Korey > egads! staggered starts? --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Tue Oct 2 15:57:17 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <59923.97578.qm@web57614.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <625757.18371.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and run under current SCCA regulations. Ernest Husmann wrote: No staggered starts. Just split the Triumphs into two qualifing groups and then have a two short qualifing races (heats), with a consolation and feature race like the dirt track guys. I'm sure the other groups won't mind. Ernie N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: > They had 143 mg's the year that they were featured, so let's get that many > and someone will figure how to get them all on the track. > Irv Korey > egads! staggered starts? --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! jaxonracing at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! From JWoesvra at aol.com Tue Oct 2 16:00:49 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 18:00:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and run under current SCCA regulations. We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage standards. The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national championship and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From trmarty at hotmail.com Tue Oct 2 16:13:35 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 18:13:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] 2008 Zippo Non-Racing TR Events? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lets find that horse and paint BRG. Marty There no plans for autocrossing that I am aware of. This was highly successful at Road America, last May, but that was horse of a completely different color. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook  together at last. Get it now. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL100626971 033 From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 2 16:28:52 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 15:28:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D6A8D4D-6D0C-4B0C-B999-1EF7B913BB93@bnj.com> Damn (Dinger) On Oct 2, 2007, at 10:13 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/02/2007 11:55:50 AM Central Daylight Time, > billb at bnj.com writes: > > >> The most attractive way to do this race for west coasters (I think) >> is to do the Glen, and then the weekend after do Road America's fall >> festival--Two great tracks with great racing towns associated with >> them in two weeks. It will spoil you for life--you'll be looking for >> that at every track you go to, and never finding anything close. In >> fact you can do the Zippo at Limerock, the Glen, and RA in a three >> week sweep. Of the three, I plan to do the Glen and RA. >> > > > While that is a great idea...next year there will be a week end > between ZIPPO WATKINS GLEN and the ELKHART LAKE VINTAGE FESTIVAL. > This happens because the GLEN event has floating dates (always the > week end after Labor Day), whereas the ELVF has a firm week end > number every year. Usually ELVF follows ZIPPO the next week end, > but every once in a while (including 2008) there is a week end in > between. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Tue Oct 2 20:36:54 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 19:36:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's References: Message-ID: <016401c80566$435c88c0$6401a8c0@TER2> We are not planning on retirement from working on TRs anytime soon! Greg Solow The Engine Room ----- Original Message ----- From: "KEVIN LYNCH" To: ; ; ; Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's > The rumor is the Engine Room's days are looking @ retirement... hope not. > Kevin > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gt6steve at aol.com > To: budscars at msn.com ; > jeff_durant at comcast.net ; > fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 7:16 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bay Area Machine Shop services for TR's > > > Isn't Greg Solow's Engine r\Room in your neighborhood? Who could ask for > more? > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > klynch_6 at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot stinfo/fot> > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fasttrs at mindspring.com Tue Oct 2 20:46:23 2007 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 22:46:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs 1900 pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a higher level than what SCCA does. The cars from England are another story altogether. Mike Munson Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and run under current SCCA regulations. We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage standards. The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national championship and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director From kaskas at cox.net Tue Oct 2 21:12:02 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 20:12:02 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 References: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> Message-ID: <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Munson" To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > 1900 > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > higher level than what SCCA does. > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > Mike Munson > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > run > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > standards. > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > championship > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From stlnyc at msn.com Tue Oct 2 21:25:56 2007 From: stlnyc at msn.com (Fred & Mary Hodgson) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 21:25:56 -0600 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 References: Message-ID: Joe- Does anyone know what entry fees will be for the event? I'm trying to plan for this myself. Fred Hodgson ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:43 AM Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 FOT....I am in the process of updating the lists of the Watkins Glen drivers and attendees. I will submit this list to Henry Frye for addition to the FOT Website, after a couple more passes at it. Please read carefully!!!! There is getting to more and more interest from the west coast. If you have any inclination at all, let me hear from you. I heard from a couple of guys in SoCal yesterday and added their names. I have not heard from John James, yet, but expect to. Please read the note below from Ron Jacobs in NorCal....he has a potential transport for his car and three more. ..................................THIS MAY OPEN THE DOOR FOR A FEW MORE TRIUMPHS.................. Joe Alexander > Joe: > I plan on attending Watkins Glenn. My car is maintained by Genoa Racing in > Novato CA. I am hoping to get enough interest from Fot's in northern > California so that I can use Genoa's big rig to transport cars to the Glen. I need > about three other cars to make it very cost effective for transport and a > crew. If any one is interested please contact me. > Ron Jacobs > Western Eagle Racing > -------------- Original message from N197TR4 at cs.com: -------------- > > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html stlnyc at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 2 23:57:46 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 22:57:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Correct camber on the front end? Message-ID: <000001c80582$52e50fd0$171a694c@computer> On my '74 TR6, I have approximately a negative 1 > degree camber with shims on both front wheels. After an autocross run, the temperature difference between the hotter outside and cooler inside of the tire is 7 to 8 degrees F on the side of the car with higher tire temperatures and around 5 degrees F between hotter outside and cooler inside of the tire on the other side of the car. I have two questions: First, is this close enough to the correct camber and if not, what do I do to get more negative camber since I believe I am at the limit with shims? [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Wed Oct 3 00:22:12 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoffrey Byrne) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:22:12 +1000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Crank Main Bearing Bolts Message-ID: <002601c80585$bd246f50$41e3efdc@co3017577a> Friends Can you guys in the States tell me what ARP main bearing cap bolts/studs you are using on TR6 motors , part number etc . I need some for a new motor... which by the way has a steel billet crank made in Aus Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under From cartravel at pobox.com Wed Oct 3 06:49:02 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 07:49:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> References: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> Message-ID: <47038FBE.3030906@pobox.com> If you remember there was a huge discussion on this for the Hallett event in Oklahoma. CVAR is relatively strict about vintage prep. We finally got the CVAR powers to make a one time exception for an event such as this. They even agreed to allow wedges which are beyond our cutoff date. All of the organizations we've done a challenge with have agreed to this type exception. SVRA should also. This is not a case of lowering standards. It is a one time exception for a special event, so we can run all Triumphs. Didn't SVRA sanction the MidOhio event in 2002? Everyone was allowed to run there. Mike Munson wrote: > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs 1900 > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > higher level than what SCCA does. > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > Mike Munson > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and run > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > standards. > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > championship > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > cartravel at pobox.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From JWoesvra at aol.com Wed Oct 3 07:23:39 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:23:39 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/3/2007 8:49:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cartravel at pobox.com writes: If you remember there was a huge discussion on this for the Hallett event in Oklahoma. CVAR is relatively strict about vintage prep. We finally got the CVAR powers to make a one time exception for an event such as this. They even agreed to allow wedges which are beyond our cutoff date. All of the organizations we've done a challenge with have agreed to this type exception. SVRA should also. This is not a case of lowering standards. It is a one time exception for a special event, so we can run all Triumphs. Didn't SVRA sanction the MidOhio event in 2002? Everyone was allowed to run there. Let me "clarify" this issue. First, SVRA has regular race groups which accommodate everything Triumph ever built. That includes TR8's prepared as SCCA C-Production cars and IMSA GTO cars. TR7's are welcome in Group 8 on treaded tires. We have a place for Dolomites, 2000 sedans, even Stags if race prepared. What we do not have a place for is earlier cars that are prepared to current SCCA specifications. These cars do not fit in any of our Groups. They are not "vintage" cars. Keep in mind that The Zippo race is not a small club type event where we might be inclined to accept everyone. The Zippo is the largest Vintage race in the USA and this year the readers of Vintage Motorsport voted it the Best Vintage Event, with Monterey being second. (Try to get in there with a TR!). Because of the worldwide exposure we cannot go far outside the "vintage" standard. I will consider all requests for entry but I don't see a place for current SCCA club race cars. Jack Woehrle ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Oct 3 07:36:01 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:36:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?KASTNER_CUP_CHALLENGE_-_WATKINS_GLEN=A0_2008?= Message-ID: yeah, I would have to go with Mike here. To say that an SCCA car is not eligible opens up a hole can of worms. The guys from England ran some pretty radical stuff. I am not saying I want to run against a whole bunch of wild cars, but they could get their own class or group. You could play the SVRA does not allow it card, but I race with SVRA and see fiberglass doors on 911s and all kind of stuff. Don't mean to be a rabble rouser, but a standard no here might need to be given a second look. And, I am speaking as a competitor, not as a sponsor. I got involved to help out the club, not to flood the Glen with Triumphs and amass a fortune. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 3 09:04:50 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:04:50 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: I would like to nominate my friend Tom Deats to FoT. Tom is from Littleton CO and a very active member of RMVR and Nostalgia Racing. He is currently racing a very fast FP Bugeye [that he graciously let me co-drive in the Pueblo Enduro last weekend] but owns a TR3 and has been a dedicated TR guy for decades. He is considering putting together a TR racer and is very interested in getting on the list. Seconds from you RMVR folks that know him? Greg Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From BillDentin at aol.com Wed Oct 3 09:26:01 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:26:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/03/2007 8:24:37 AM Central Daylight Time, JWoesvra at aol.com writes: > First, SVRA has regular race groups which accommodate everything Triumph > ever built. > > That includes TR8's prepared as SCCA C-Production cars and IMSA GTO cars. > > TR7's are welcome in Group 8 on treaded tires. > > We have a place for Dolomites, 2000 sedans, even Stags if race prepared. > > What we do not have a place for is earlier cars that are prepared to > current > SCCA specifications. These cars do not fit in any of our Groups. They are > not "vintage" cars. > > Keep in mind that The Zippo race is not a small club type event where we > might be inclined to accept everyone. > > The Zippo is the largest Vintage race in the USA and this year the readers > of Vintage Motorsport voted it the Best Vintage Event, with Monterey being > second. (Try to get in there with a TR!). > > Because of the worldwide exposure we cannot go far outside the "vintage" > standard. > > I will consider all requests for entry but I don't see a place for current > SCCA club race cars. > Amici... Personally, it is not a big issue for me. As I work my way to the back of the pack, I am both used to and comfortable being on the track with faster cars. I'll have no issue if TRIUMPHs prepared to current specs are approved. But there are other issues. SVRA has always been more than accommodating. But as Jack points out, the ZIPPO event at the GLEN is MAJOR and has a ton of aspects that require attention and consideration over and above their featured marques. And, of course, it is a vintage event. Any wholesale bending of the rules can also complicate the award of the KASTNER CUP (which came about well after the SVRA 1992 MID-OHIO event). The KASTNER CUP is a performance award, and has been awarded to racers in 'vintage' race cars. That gets sticky when you include modern cars in the mix. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From billb at bnj.com Wed Oct 3 09:33:01 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:33:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E02DD7F-46C2-4EFC-BEFD-666B8DD4DDD1@bnj.com> True, except Kas has always made it clear that performance is an ASPECT of the award. I have to admit my only reason for wiggling so hard is that I think Mike Munson is a great guy, and I like seeing him race. On Oct 3, 2007, at 8:26 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/03/2007 8:24:37 AM Central Daylight Time, > JWoesvra at aol.com writes: > > >> First, SVRA has regular race groups which accommodate everything >> Triumph >> ever built. >> >> That includes TR8's prepared as SCCA C-Production cars and IMSA >> GTO cars. >> >> TR7's are welcome in Group 8 on treaded tires. >> >> We have a place for Dolomites, 2000 sedans, even Stags if race >> prepared. >> >> What we do not have a place for is earlier cars that are prepared to >> current >> SCCA specifications. These cars do not fit in any of our Groups. >> They are >> not "vintage" cars. >> >> Keep in mind that The Zippo race is not a small club type event >> where we >> might be inclined to accept everyone. >> >> The Zippo is the largest Vintage race in the USA and this year the >> readers >> of Vintage Motorsport voted it the Best Vintage Event, with >> Monterey being >> second. (Try to get in there with a TR!). >> >> Because of the worldwide exposure we cannot go far outside the >> "vintage" >> standard. >> >> I will consider all requests for entry but I don't see a place for >> current >> SCCA club race cars. >> > > Amici... > > Personally, it is not a big issue for me. As I work my way to the > back of > the pack, I am both used to and comfortable being on the track with > faster cars. > I'll have no issue if TRIUMPHs prepared to current specs are > approved. But > there are other issues. > > SVRA has always been more than accommodating. But as Jack points > out, the > ZIPPO event at the GLEN is MAJOR and has a ton of aspects that > require attention > and consideration over and above their featured marques. And, of > course, it > is a vintage event. > > Any wholesale bending of the rules can also complicate the award of > the > KASTNER CUP (which came about well after the SVRA 1992 MID-OHIO > event). The > KASTNER CUP is a performance award, and has been awarded to racers > in 'vintage' race > cars. That gets sticky when you include modern cars in the mix. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From klynch_6 at msn.com Wed Oct 3 09:39:16 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:39:16 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: Message-ID: I will second that nomination as I know Tom to be a real competitor & active in some of the RMVR car shows I've organized. Am surprised & excited to learn he's preparing a TR to race as he's quicker than stink in that damn Bugeye! Kev Lynch RMVR #6 GT-6 ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer To: FOT Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:04 AM Subject: [Fot] Nomination I would like to nominate my friend Tom Deats to FoT. Tom is from Littleton CO and a very active member of RMVR and Nostalgia Racing. He is currently racing a very fast FP Bugeye [that he graciously let me co-drive in the Pueblo Enduro last weekend] but owns a TR3 and has been a dedicated TR guy for decades. He is considering putting together a TR racer and is very interested in getting on the list. Seconds from you RMVR folks that know him? Greg Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 3 09:52:14 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:52:14 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: Ya! Bugeyes are cute and fast. But, a TR3A is more of a 'Hair On The Chest' race car. The TR3A racers are a great fraternity and to be encouraged. Hope he gathers some momentum on this project in time for the Glen. > I will second that nomination as I know Tom to be a real competitor & > active > in some of the RMVR car shows I've organized. Am surprised & excited to > learn > he's preparing a TR to race as he's quicker than stink in that damn Bugeye! > Kev Lynch > RMVR > #6 GT-6 > From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 3 10:04:52 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:04:52 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I do have to stress the word "considering" building a TR racer. I'm sure it would be some time in the future, but enthusiasm from the list will certainly help. Tom's e-mail is TomD4760 at aol.com Does this need to be forwarded to the webmaster to get him on? Greg On Oct 3, 2007, at 9:39 AM, KEVIN LYNCH wrote: > I will second that nomination as I know Tom to be a real > competitor & active in some of the RMVR car shows I've organized. > Am surprised & excited to learn he's preparing a TR to race as he's > quicker than stink in that damn Bugeye! > Kev Lynch > RMVR > #6 GT-6 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > To: FOT > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:04 AM > Subject: [Fot] Nomination > > I would like to nominate my friend Tom Deats to FoT. Tom is from > Littleton CO and a very active member of RMVR and Nostalgia Racing. > He is currently racing a very fast FP Bugeye [that he graciously let > me co-drive in the Pueblo Enduro last weekend] but owns a TR3 and has > been a dedicated TR guy for decades. He is considering putting > together a TR racer and is very interested in getting on the list. > Seconds from you RMVR folks that know him? > Greg Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > klynch_6 at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Wed Oct 3 12:18:49 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:18:49 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <20071003.122100.836.3.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Tom is good people! This will give us something to pick on him about to get him to do up a proper TR effort. I second, wholeheartedly. Bill 70 GT-6+ On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:04:50 -0600 "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" writes: > I would like to nominate my friend Tom Deats to FoT. Tom is from > Littleton CO and a very active member of RMVR and Nostalgia Racing. > > He is currently racing a very fast FP Bugeye [that he graciously let > > me co-drive in the Pueblo Enduro last weekend] but owns a TR3 and > has > been a dedicated TR guy for decades. He is considering putting > together a TR racer and is very interested in getting on the list. > Seconds from you RMVR folks that know him? > Greg Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Wed Oct 3 12:54:14 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (CHARLES DELAUER) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 18:54:14 +0000 Subject: [Fot] NOMINATION OF NEW MEMBER BOB FRANK Message-ID: Hi Gang I am nominating BOB 'HACKSAW' FRANK to the FOT..Bob is a vintage racer and good friend of mine, Bob recently sold his MGB vintage racecar and is moving to the Triumph Camp Please second my nomination of Bob Frank of Novato, Ca. to Friends of Triumph. Thanks Racer Bud Spitfire #21 Sonoma, Ca From billb at bnj.com Wed Oct 3 12:58:19 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:58:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] NOMINATION OF NEW MEMBER BOB FRANK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow. A double benefit. I second On Oct 3, 2007, at 11:54 AM, CHARLES DELAUER wrote: > Hi Gang I am nominating BOB 'HACKSAW' FRANK to the FOT..Bob is a > vintage > racer and good friend of mine, Bob recently sold his MGB vintage > racecar and > is moving to the Triumph Camp > Please second my nomination of Bob Frank of Novato, Ca. to Friends of > Triumph. > Thanks > Racer Bud Spitfire #21 Sonoma, Ca > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 3 13:31:25 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] NOMINATION OF NEW MEMBER BOB FRANK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <229144.62889.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> I am a bit curious about the name "Hacksaw"? CHARLES DELAUER wrote: Hi Gang I am nominating BOB 'HACKSAW' FRANK to the FOT..Bob is a vintage racer and good friend of mine, Bob recently sold his MGB vintage racecar and is moving to the Triumph Camp Please second my nomination of Bob Frank of Novato, Ca. to Friends of Triumph. Thanks Racer Bud Spitfire #21 Sonoma, Ca ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Wed Oct 3 13:52:56 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:52:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Alignment tools for TR6 Message-ID: <000b01c805f6$fe5d24f0$171a694c@computer> What are some good (preferably cheap and/or homemade) alignment tools for toe and camber? When the string is used to measure toe, what part of the car is it set up as parallel to? Is this way of measuring toe better than measuring the tire/wheel comparing back to front? Thanks for any tips guys, Jim [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Wed Oct 3 14:56:48 2007 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:56:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: a slow motion look at the inside of a running engine cylinder Message-ID: Cool video of a cylinder while running. I don't know any of the details, but not something you see very often. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5815350492893860613&hl=en From billb at bnj.com Wed Oct 3 15:34:25 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:34:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FW: a slow motion look at the inside of a running engine cylinder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Pretty cool--I'd like to see more of the exhaust cycle. There's a video around somewhere of the bottom end of a wet sump engine running. It looks like a hurricane in a box. On Oct 3, 2007, at 1:56 PM, Doug Mitchell wrote: > Cool video of a cylinder while running. I don't know any of the > details, but not something you see very often. > > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5815350492893860613&hl=en > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Wed Oct 3 15:22:39 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:22:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] NOMINATION OF NEW MEMBER BOB FRANK References: <229144.62889.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: HACKSAW is Bob's Gang name from THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang.. Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Husmann To: CHARLES DELAUER ; Fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] NOMINATION OF NEW MEMBER BOB FRANK I am a bit curious about the name "Hacksaw"? CHARLES DELAUER wrote: Hi Gang I am nominating BOB 'HACKSAW' FRANK to the FOT..Bob is a vintage racer and good friend of mine, Bob recently sold his MGB vintage racecar and is moving to the Triumph Camp Please second my nomination of Bob Frank of Novato, Ca. to Friends of Triumph. Thanks Racer Bud Spitfire #21 Sonoma, Ca _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! From Roadandtrack at bigpond.com Wed Oct 3 16:04:10 2007 From: Roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 08:04:10 +1000 Subject: [Fot] roller rockers TR6 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c80609$53c65bc0$0301010a@purplebox> Can I please have some comments on the various brands of roller rockers being sold in the USA. I am in need of a set for a project TR6 engine and would like a bit of feedback on good/bad experiences with the various types, eg, any troubles with the bushed type ones?? If anyone has a set for sale, please let me know. Thanks, Terry O'Beirne From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 3 16:11:40 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:11:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] roller rockers TR6 In-Reply-To: <000001c80609$53c65bc0$0301010a@purplebox> References: <000001c80609$53c65bc0$0301010a@purplebox> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710031511o4e01a5dbq26ee4107d406cd13@mail.gmail.com> Been very happy with the set I got from Ted Schumaker at TSI [1.5 ratio] On 10/3/07, Terry and Cindy wrote: > > Can I please have some comments on the various brands of roller rockers > being sold in the USA. I am in need of a set for a project TR6 engine > and would like a bit of feedback on good/bad experiences with the > various types, eg, any troubles with the bushed type ones?? > If anyone has a set for sale, please let me know. > Thanks, Terry O'Beirne > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Wed Oct 3 16:24:59 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:24:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tran-x References: <01f601c80512$5305fa30$1a02a8c0@workstation3> <4704113E.2000002@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <02f501c8060c$3cad8c80$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Greg I believe this is correct, these are the Salisbury design as bought by a group in Germany. To be sure I would direct your questions to Ken Gilanders and he will be able to answer it. Telephone/Fax: 626-443-0939 Email: bfeken at copper.net Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "greg" To: "Charly Mitchel" Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Tran-x > Are these Salisbury clutch type and if so are they the proper 4 pinion > design? Two pinion won't hold up to the TR weight and torque. > Thanks, > Greg > > Charly Mitchel wrote: > > FoTers, > > we have 6 commitments for the Tran-x lsd's. They are going to be shipped via > > ship and we have several of weeks before they will be sent. So I guess we're > > making the last call for units if anyone else is interested. If so let me or > > ken know ASAP so we can get them ordered. > > Thanks, > > Charly Mitchel > > TR6 #44 > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > gtlund at cyberspeedway.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 3 16:30:40 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:30:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tran-x In-Reply-To: <02f501c8060c$3cad8c80$1a02a8c0@workstation3> References: <01f601c80512$5305fa30$1a02a8c0@workstation3> <4704113E.2000002@cyberspeedway.net> <02f501c8060c$3cad8c80$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710031530k4e8b13eaj23743ae4fe096582@mail.gmail.com> See:http://www.tran-x.com/DiffsHTML/TR6.html for a picture Chuck On 10/3/07, Charly Mitchel wrote: > > Greg I believe this is correct, these are the Salisbury design as bought > by > a group in Germany. To be sure I would direct your questions to Ken > Gilanders and he will be able to answer it. > Telephone/Fax: 626-443-0939 > Email: bfeken at copper.net > > Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "greg" > To: "Charly Mitchel" > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:01 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Tran-x > > > > Are these Salisbury clutch type and if so are they the proper 4 pinion > > design? Two pinion won't hold up to the TR weight and torque. > > Thanks, > > Greg > > > > Charly Mitchel wrote: > > > FoTers, > > > we have 6 commitments for the Tran-x lsd's. They are going to be > shipped via > > > ship and we have several of weeks before they will be sent. So I > guess > we're > > > making the last call for units if anyone else is interested. If so > let > me or > > > ken know ASAP so we can get them ordered. > > > Thanks, > > > Charly Mitchel > > > TR6 #44 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > > > gtlund at cyberspeedway.net > > > Fot mailing list > > > Fot at autox.team.net > > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From jaboruch at netzero.net Wed Oct 3 17:47:25 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 23:47:25 GMT Subject: [Fot] Alignment tools for TR6 Message-ID: <20071003.194725.196.0@webmail15.dca.untd.com> I have found that toe plates work well and are easy to carry to the track and use. They are available from a variety of suppliers and ebay. I have a camber gauge that is basically a calibrated level. I think I got it from Racer Wholesale. It is simple, small and it works. Joe(B) -- "jim hearn" wrote: What are some good (preferably cheap and/or homemade) alignment tools for toe and camber? When the string is used to measure toe, what part of the car is it set up as parallel to? Is this way of measuring toe better than measuring the tire/wheel comparing back to front? Thanks for any tips guys, Jim [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Not making enough money? Click here to get free info on medical jobs http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmPZJum11IthXdNxBrDO6Rmu oYbtQZmbWhYB1MkM5XEVTOqN/ From vintage.racer at comcast.net Wed Oct 3 17:58:59 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:58:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] You'll want to watch this Message-ID: <000301c80619$5e968150$1bc383f0$@racer@comcast.net> Hello All: Mark Oct.6 (Saturday) on your calendar for a new show on the Discovery channel which will premiere a special on the Ralph Lauren car collection. See the attached link for info: http://special.polo.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/nu820MKX8U0JJ8085d0GU Gary From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Wed Oct 3 20:56:08 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 21:56:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR3 piston rookie question Message-ID: <003901c80632$1daae690$8d20b348@blake1> Can anyone tell me the crown height for a stock TR3 piston? If I order the stock height + .005, will I have enough extra to mill off to get a zero deck height? As far as I know the block has not been decked in the past. Thanks, Greg From rjl at gt-classics.com Wed Oct 3 20:20:51 2007 From: rjl at gt-classics.com (R. John Lye) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:20:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Alignment tools for TR6 In-Reply-To: <20071003.194725.196.0@webmail15.dca.untd.com> References: <20071003.194725.196.0@webmail15.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: >-- "jim hearn" wrote: >What are some good (preferably cheap and/or homemade) alignment tools for >toe and camber? When the string is used to measure toe, what part of the >car is it set up as parallel to? They need to be parallel to the center line of the car. >Is this way of measuring toe better than >measuring the tire/wheel comparing back to front? It helps make sure that the car is "square" - if you just measure using toe plates, its possible to get the right toe, but not be square to the centerline of the car. That said, if you start with a correctly aligned car, toe plates will keep you close. R. John Lye rjl6n at cstone.net From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 3 20:34:01 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:34:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] The Kastner Cup Challenge at The Glen Message-ID: FoT, Lots of great stuff came in today. My view of the "Kastner Cup Challenge", if I may: This "Event" is a celebration of our Triumph Cars and the honoring of Kas Kastner, who brought (and still does bring) so much to our sport. The "RACE" is about Performance, Presentation, and the People who race these cars. SVRA has always done been extrordinarily fair & balanced with our Triumphs and the issues of eligibility. Not to mention the opportunity & encouragement for us to get together at the storied venues of North America. Watkins Glen is going to be one hell of show............. I'd like to see everybody there. It IS the "FRIENDS OF TRIUMPH". Thanks! Joe A From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 2 21:34:54 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 20:34:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> References: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: Basic "visiting firemen" courtesy though to let the Brits run. It's a common problem in vintage racing of all stripes. When I helped put on the Columbia River Classic race with SOVREN I was pestering the competition committee to grant a waiver for some cars so we could get a bunch of non-conforming cars to run--it was a small event that we wanted to grow, and there are a lot of cars in Portland and Northern California that meet SCCA requirements but not SOVREN. They said there's no way we will grant a waiver, but we don't prevent people from running their cars when they first want to run with us. Have them enter and give us an honest description of their cars. We'll consult with them during tech and point out the non- conforming elements. As long as they make progress toward bringing their cars into conformance then we'll work with them." I thought that was a pretty masterful way to include people in the event and move them towards full participation. And in fact many of the guys here have started or even completely moved their cars into conformance. It was interesting to note that the non-conforming cars had no apparent competitive advantage. They got waxed by the regulars. I don't know if that's a way that the SVRA would agree to work, but it seems inclusion and ultimate correction is a more constructive policy than exclusion. On Oct 2, 2007, at 8:12 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but > they do > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Munson" > To: ; ; > ; > ; ; ; > ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > >> Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite >> understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm >> fuel >> injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also >> weighs >> 1900 >> pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. >> I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage >> organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car >> to a >> higher level than what SCCA does. >> >> The cars from England are another story altogether. >> >> Mike Munson >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 >> >> In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: >> >> Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a >> class >> within the run group that will support my car? My spit is >> prepared and >> run >> >> under current SCCA regulations. >> >> >> We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted >> vintage >> standards. >> >> The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national >> championship >> and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. >> >> Jack Woehrle >> SVRA Technical Director >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Wed Oct 3 08:23:50 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:23:50 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/02/2007 10:13:07 PM Central Daylight Time, kaskas at cox.net writes: > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do > > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > A couple of them had TRIUMPH parts on them. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From keithfiles at btinternet.com Tue Oct 2 23:52:26 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 06:52:26 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <20071003055439.C53BD18763D@autox.team.net> It was in recognition of this great disparity that I chose to have Uncle Jack and Joe A find and build a US TR4 to your regulations and leave my UK modified TR6 at home; seemed the fair and right thing to do. Cheers, Keith -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kas Kastner Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Munson" To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > 1900 > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > higher level than what SCCA does. > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > Mike Munson > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > run > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > standards. > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > championship > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From sgroh1 at comcast.net Wed Oct 3 16:48:31 2007 From: sgroh1 at comcast.net (Steven Groh) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 18:48:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 References: <007001c80567$96373530$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <002301c8060f$863b2bc0$6401a8c0@steven2sbouwlk> I have to pipe in here. I am one of those who moved their car into compliance. Having just spent $2,800 after a ton of searching to replace my non-conforming fiberglass Spitfire bonnet (in compliance with HSR and VARA, by the way) for a steel bonnet so that I would be in compliance with SVRA's rules, I would definitely NOT be happy if the rules were not uniformly applied or were arbitrarily applied. A governing body of technical experts enforcing the rules is one reason I joined SVRA. I think this would further open a flood gate of exceptions. Secondly, this is the Zippo GP for crying out loud. If any event should have vintage rules enforced, it should be this one. I'm all for a comprehensive Triumph meet, and with all countries represented, too. I just don't think SVRA and the Glen are the right combination for this. How about a "non-championship" looser-format event with VARAC at Mosport? Or HSR at Road Atlanta? Or some other sanctioning body at the Glen? Then I'll put the glass bonnet back on and join the fun. Steve Groh SVRA #393 63 Spitfire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Kas Kastner" Cc: "Mike Munson" ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > Basic "visiting firemen" courtesy though to let the Brits run. It's a > common problem in vintage racing of all stripes. > > When I helped put on the Columbia River Classic race with SOVREN I was > pestering the competition committee to grant a waiver for some cars so we > could get a bunch of non-conforming cars to run--it was a small event > that we wanted to grow, and there are a lot of cars in Portland and > Northern California that meet SCCA requirements but not SOVREN. They said > there's no way we will grant a waiver, but we don't prevent people from > running their cars when they first want to run with us. Have them enter > and give us an honest description of their cars. We'll consult with them > during tech and point out the non- conforming elements. As long as they > make progress toward bringing their cars into conformance then we'll work > with them." > > I thought that was a pretty masterful way to include people in the event > and move them towards full participation. And in fact many of the guys > here have started or even completely moved their cars into conformance. > It was interesting to note that the non-conforming cars had no apparent > competitive advantage. They got waxed by the regulars. > > I don't know if that's a way that the SVRA would agree to work, but it > seems inclusion and ultimate correction is a more constructive policy > than exclusion. > > > On Oct 2, 2007, at 8:12 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > >> Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they >> do >> not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike Munson" >> To: ; ; ; >> ; ; ; >> ; >> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM >> Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 >> >> >>> Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite >>> understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel >>> injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs >>> 1900 >>> pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. >>> I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage >>> organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a >>> higher level than what SCCA does. >>> >>> The cars from England are another story altogether. >>> >>> Mike Munson >>> >>> >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 >>> >>> In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>> jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: >>> >>> Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a >>> class >>> within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and >>> run >>> >>> under current SCCA regulations. >>> >>> >>> We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted >>> vintage >>> standards. >>> >>> The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national >>> championship >>> and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. >>> >>> Jack Woehrle >>> SVRA Technical Director >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> kaskas at cox.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> billb at bnj.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Thu Oct 4 00:09:14 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:09:14 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Tran-x In-Reply-To: <02f501c8060c$3cad8c80$1a02a8c0@workstation3> References: <01f601c80512$5305fa30$1a02a8c0@workstation3> <4704113E.2000002@cyberspeedway.net> <02f501c8060c$3cad8c80$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Message-ID: <0A2479ED-018E-4044-ACEE-3E117D0A7AB6@earthlink.net> Thanks Chuck, I'm going to pass. My car wins races as is and I've decided that I can develop my rear suspension a bit more before a LSD. Greg On Oct 3, 2007, at 4:24 PM, Charly Mitchel wrote: > Greg I believe this is correct, these are the Salisbury design as > bought by > a group in Germany. To be sure I would direct your questions to Ken > Gilanders and he will be able to answer it. > Telephone/Fax: 626-443-0939 > Email: bfeken at copper.net > > Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "greg" > To: "Charly Mitchel" > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:01 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Tran-x > > >> Are these Salisbury clutch type and if so are they the proper 4 >> pinion >> design? Two pinion won't hold up to the TR weight and torque. >> Thanks, >> Greg >> >> Charly Mitchel wrote: >>> FoTers, >>> we have 6 commitments for the Tran-x lsd's. They are going to be > shipped via >>> ship and we have several of weeks before they will be sent. So I >>> guess > we're >>> making the last call for units if anyone else is interested. If >>> so let > me or >>> ken know ASAP so we can get them ordered. >>> Thanks, >>> Charly Mitchel >>> TR6 #44 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> gtlund at cyberspeedway.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > lunkercars at earthlink.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Oct 4 06:47:58 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 07:47:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fan Belt Message-ID: FoT, At the September Road America event, I began to throw fan belts off my TR6. I had no problems with the fan belt at the previous race event. Nothing was changed on the engine. I run aluminum pulley's on the crank, water pump and alternator (4.5" pulley on a Denso). All pulley's are for a 3/8" belt. We could not see any run out of the belt with the engine running at high idle. We checked the plane of the pulley's and made a minor adjustment with shimming the alternator bracket. The water pump had a very small amount of play in it but it seemed insignificant. When i got home, I measured the NAPA belt width and found that it was 13/32" wide - 1/32" wider than 3/8". I went back to NAPA but couldn't find an exact 3/8" width in their inventory. Could this be the issue? When installed, the belt sat above the top of the pulley by a hair. Is this enough for it to walk up and out at high RPM? Why did it just start to do this? Is the wiggle in the water pump a new occurrence causing the problem? The water pump is fairly new. Where are others buying their fan belts and are they 3/8"? Allen Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From tony at tonydrews.com Thu Oct 4 06:54:19 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 07:54:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fan Belt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071004125528.ADA02187A10@autox.team.net> I ended up with a slightly narrower belt that sits deeper in the grooves. My pulley alignment isn't the greatest in the world, but it stays put (knock on wood). Got the belt at the local farm equipment place (farm and fleet). - Tony At 07:47 AM 10/4/2007, Allen Washatko wrote: >FoT, > >At the September Road America event, I began to throw fan belts off my >TR6. I had no problems with the fan belt at the previous race event. >Nothing was changed on the engine. I run aluminum pulley's on the >crank, water pump and alternator (4.5" pulley on a Denso). All pulley's >are for a 3/8" belt. We could not see any run out of the belt with the >engine running at high idle. We checked the plane of the pulley's and >made a minor adjustment with shimming the alternator bracket. The water >pump had a very small amount of play in it but it seemed insignificant. >When i got home, I measured the NAPA belt width and found that it was >13/32" wide - 1/32" wider than 3/8". I went back to NAPA but couldn't >find an exact 3/8" width in their inventory. Could this be the issue? >When installed, the belt sat above the top of the pulley by a hair. Is >this enough for it to walk up and out at high RPM? Why did it just >start to do this? Is the wiggle in the water pump a new occurrence >causing the problem? The water pump is fairly new. Where are others >buying their fan belts and are they 3/8"? > >Allen > > > >Jody & Allen Washatko >N65 W5567 Columbia Road >Cedarburg, WI. 53012 >USA > >tel. (262) 375-6888 >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >tony at tonydrews.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From S.Janzen at comcast.net Thu Oct 4 07:08:34 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:08:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Alignment tools for TR6 References: <000b01c805f6$fe5d24f0$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <001f01c80687$ac668290$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> It takes a while, but first level the four tire contact points - vinyl floor tiles or masonite work well. Then get out a tape measure, plumb bob and tape, and determine the centerline of the car by dropping the plumb bob off the inner suspension points nd putting a tape line down the floor under the center of the car. fron there you can measure off the centerline - for my formula ford with adjustable rod end suspension I could get the whole car aligned symetrically. Toe fore and aft can now be determined by setting up jack stands at the four corners and running string down the sides of the car at wheel center height. Now you have a line to measure off of to the leading and trailing edges of the wheels. For camber, you have to get one of those a frame shaped digital camber/castor checkers - look in the ads in Sportscar or Grassroots Motorsports, or any of the race stuff suppliers - Truechoice, pegasus, others - and you'll find one. It's slow and painstaking but if you are careful you can do a good job this way. Of course, every time you jack up the car to make an adjustment you have to go back and re-set the car on the floor! ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:52 PM Subject: [Fot] Alignment tools for TR6 > What are some good (preferably cheap and/or homemade) alignment tools for > toe and camber? When the string is used to measure toe, what part of the > car is it set up as parallel to? Is this way of measuring toe better than > measuring the tire/wheel comparing back to front? Thanks for any tips > guys, > Jim > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cartravel at pobox.com Thu Oct 4 07:31:16 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:31:16 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR3 piston rookie question In-Reply-To: <003901c80632$1daae690$8d20b348@blake1> References: <003901c80632$1daae690$8d20b348@blake1> Message-ID: <4704EB24.3010706@pobox.com> I believe your asking for the compression height, i.e. the distance from the wrist pin center to the top of the piston. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you need a 2.000 in compression height to put the top of the piston level with the deck. Greg & Alison Blake wrote: > Can anyone tell me the crown height for a stock TR3 piston? If I order > the stock height + .005, will I have enough extra to mill off to get a > zero deck height? As far as I know the block has not been decked in the > past. > > Thanks, > > Greg > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > cartravel at pobox.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From klynch_6 at msn.com Thu Oct 4 08:40:14 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 08:40:14 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Dario in a Door Slammer Message-ID: Franchitti goes to Nascar... sans the doors! Kevin From walt at hot-tr6.com Thu Oct 4 09:23:24 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:23:24 -0600 Subject: [Fot] transportation needed-long shot Message-ID: <20071004152414.49D201879BC@autox.team.net> I have a bare TR6 engine block and a crankshaft I need transported from Fort Pierce, Florida 34947 to Albuquerque, New Mexico 87111 Just in case anyone can help and could use some gas money for this service. Thank You Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, NM From Group44TR7 at aol.com Thu Oct 4 09:58:49 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:58:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - Message-ID: Amici I do not believe that a year has gone by whilst I have been an FOT participant ( 199?) that the subject of requirements of various sanctioning bodies has not been a topic of FOT discussion. Especially the requirements to meet specific preparation requirements, which for many Triumphs is the 1972 SCCA GRC. Frankly I do not know where and when it was first decided to use the 1972 SCCA GRC, but I do know that it was already in use when I started vintage racing in about 1990. It has always struck me as particularly ironic that the body work modification (wheel flares) that were allowed in 1972 were not allowed in vintage racing and that relatively little was actually being done at many events to enforce adherence to preparation of 1972 GRC engine specifications other than obvious visible modifications like the carbs. One of the benefits of owning a Group 44 racecar, as I am sure it is with Kas's old racecars as well, is to see the innovation that was done within the rules to make the cars more competitive. One of the frustration is that keeping the car as it was originally raced means that you are at a competitive disadvantage to other historic as well as newly constucted vintage racecars that are using the latest technology. As a driver/owner, you simply have to accept that you never going to be the fastest car on the track as they were in their day. The second point that I would like to make is that alot of time has passed since I first did vintage racing. I am glad that SVAR has opened the door for participation by post 1972 cars that have have a racing history. If I can change what is a major conflict in my business schedule with the Watkins Glen event and some other logisitcal challenges, you all just might get to see the Group 44 TR7 - Aussy Playboy TR7 in action at the Glen for the first time since 1975. If its slower than you expected - well some of you know Bob Tullius, and I am not anywhere close to Bob Tullius. It truly a great priviledge to even drive the same car as the him. Cary ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Oct 4 10:03:13 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:03:13 EDT Subject: [Fot] FW: a slow motion look at the inside of a running engine cylinder Message-ID: In a message dated 10/03/2007 4:36:11 PM Central Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: > Pretty cool--I'd like to see more of the exhaust cycle. There's a > video around somewhere of the bottom end of a wet sump engine > running. It looks like a hurricane in a box. > My racing partner, Bob Wismer (an ex-Deere engineer), found it to be amazing. He finds it looks very different from a direct-injected diesel engine, which he's seen many times. He also said if this was his engine head, I would work on "swirl." I don't know what that means, but I'll ask him to explain it at one of our MID-OHIO breakfast meetings (unless Shirley makes us talk about quilting). Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From billb at bnj.com Thu Oct 4 10:03:46 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:03:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <213035CF-A262-4A83-A844-28E8AB18B76A@bnj.com> Sovren is going through a fierce debate on changing their eligibility requirements from 1968 to 1972. So far I think most members want to stick with 1968, though I think it limits the participation of people from other clubs. It's too bad there isn't enough cooperation at a national level to enable vintage eligibility to be defined country-wide. On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > Amici > > I do not believe that a year has gone by whilst I have been an > FOT participant ( 199?) that the subject of requirements of various > sanctioning bodies has not been a topic of FOT discussion. > Especially the requirements to meet specific preparation > requirements, which for many Triumphs is the 1972 SCCA GRC. > > Frankly I do not know where and when it was first decided to > use the 1972 SCCA GRC, but I do know that it was already in use > when I started vintage racing in about 1990. It has always struck > me as particularly ironic that the body work modification (wheel > flares) that were allowed in 1972 were not allowed in vintage > racing and that relatively little was actually being done at many > events to enforce adherence to preparation of 1972 GRC engine > specifications other than obvious visible modifications like the > carbs. > > One of the benefits of owning a Group 44 racecar, as I am sure > it is with Kas's old racecars as well, is to see the innovation > that was done within the rules to make the cars more competitive. > One of the frustration is that keeping the car as it was originally > raced means that you are at a competitive disadvantage to other > historic as well as newly constucted vintage racecars that are > using the latest technology. As a driver/owner, you simply have to > accept that you never going to be the fastest car on the track as > they were in their day. > > The second point that I would like to make is that alot of time > has passed since I first did vintage racing. I am glad that SVAR > has opened the door for participation by post 1972 cars that have > have a racing history. If I can change what is a major conflict in > my business schedule with the Watkins Glen event and some other > logisitcal challenges, you all just might get to see the Group 44 > TR7 - Aussy Playboy TR7 in action at the Glen for the first time > since 1975. > > If its slower than you expected - well some of you know Bob > Tullius, and I am not anywhere close to Bob Tullius. It truly a > great priviledge to even drive the same car as the him. > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 4 12:14:30 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 14:14:30 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR3/TR4 Cam Core Needed Message-ID: FoT, I thought I had a couple, but I dont. I need a suitable cam core for Larry Young's new Grind. I have an address to drop ship it. Thanks, Joe Alexander From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 4 12:22:39 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 14:22:39 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - Message-ID: Cary, I'll put you down....I think you are going to make it this time. Looks like we might have a mini Group 44 meeting in the making? Joe A > Amici > > I do not believe that a year has gone by whilst I have been an FOT > participant ( 199?) that the subject of requirements of various sanctioning > bodies > has not been a topic of FOT discussion. Especially the requirements to meet > specific preparation requirements, which for many Triumphs is the 1972 SCCA > GRC. > > Frankly I do not know where and when it was first decided to use the > 1972 > SCCA GRC, but I do know that it was already in use when I started vintage > racing in about 1990. It has always struck me as particularly ironic that > the > body work modification (wheel flares) that were allowed in 1972 were not > allowed > in vintage racing and that relatively little was actually being done at many > events to enforce adherence to preparation of 1972 GRC engine specifications > other than obvious visible modifications like the carbs. > > One of the benefits of owning a Group 44 racecar, as I am sure it is > with > Kas's old racecars as well, is to see the innovation that was done within > the > rules to make the cars more competitive. One of the frustration is that > keeping the car as it was originally raced means that you are at a > competitive > disadvantage to other historic as well as newly constucted vintage racecars > that > are using the latest technology. As a driver/owner, you simply have to > accept > that you never going to be the fastest car on the track as they were in > their > day. > > The second point that I would like to make is that alot of time has > passed since I first did vintage racing. I am glad that SVAR has opened the > door > for participation by post 1972 cars that have have a racing history. If I > can > change what is a major conflict in my business schedule with the Watkins > Glen > event and some other logisitcal challenges, you all just might get to see > the > Group 44 TR7 - Aussy Playboy TR7 in action at the Glen for the first time > since > 1975. > > If its slower than you expected - well some of you know Bob Tullius, and > I am not anywhere close to Bob Tullius. It truly a great priviledge to even > drive the same car as the him. > > Cary > > > > > > > > From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Thu Oct 4 14:23:17 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:23:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] JE pistons for 1500 Spitfire Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74772374@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> I have a set of new +0.040 JE pistons for a Spitfire 1500 (bore of 2.940") which I no longer need. Includes premium pins (4), spiro locks, and rings. There's also a sample piston I sent to JE to be duplicated -- the sample comes from a prior blowed up 1500 motor -- from when I joined the Hole in the Block Gang at RA in 2004. I can provide invoice, build/spec sheet and photos. I've got $583.52 in this set of pistons, but would cut someone a decent deal to move them to a home where they could be used in anger as opposed to gathering dust in my garage. Anyone out there need a set of really nice forged pistons? Scott B. From jaboruch at netzero.net Thu Oct 4 17:43:42 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 23:43:42 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR3 piston rookie question Message-ID: <20071004.194342.21589.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> 2" compression height is correct. Joe(B) -- Larry Young wrote: I believe your asking for the compression height, i.e. the distance from the wrist pin center to the top of the piston. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you need a 2.000 in compression height to put the top of the piston level with the deck. Greg & Alison Blake wrote: > Can anyone tell me the crown height for a stock TR3 piston? If I order > the stock height + .005, will I have enough extra to mill off to get a > zero deck height? As far as I know the block has not been decked in the > past. > > Thanks, > > Greg > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > cartravel at pobox.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click for free info on business schools, $150K/ year potential. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlScb83RqBPXVW9HCpYwvtuT xWJKIeWscRXockyHSyaJI9Ux/ From jaboruch at netzero.net Thu Oct 4 17:51:56 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 23:51:56 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR3 piston rookie question Message-ID: <20071004.195156.21589.1@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Your piston height depends on a couple of factors. Like what rpm's, what head gasket, etc. For racing the cranks flex and you need more clearance than you think. I use a steel shim head gasket (0.022 inches compressed) and have had pistons that were 0.005 inches below the top of the liners still hit the head. I now leave at least 0.010" clearance at the top of the piston, for a total of 0.032". My rev limiter is set at 7300rpm and the pistons do not hit. Joe(B) -- "Greg & Alison Blake" wrote: Can anyone tell me the crown height for a stock TR3 piston? If I order the stock height + .005, will I have enough extra to mill off to get a zero deck height? As far as I know the block has not been decked in the past. Thanks, Greg jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Be your own boss today! Go to Technical School. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijngzTlf4rXRwVBXSWM1HSZuP Uoyrp6JoW8nWHHv0Ffn7WOB0/ From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Oct 4 18:19:35 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:19:35 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Steering Rack Message-ID: <1c352d3df559e9ef79f1c878732f2500@wi.rr.com> Anybody out there have a used steering rack for a TR6? I bought a new one from Moss but it fell apart while sitting in the garage during a toe adjustment!!! Made in Argentina. Someone over torqued the lock nut on the cap that holds the grease plug and plunger in place - stripped the threads and everything let go while turning the steering wheel. Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Thu Oct 4 20:12:46 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:12:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] LSD's Message-ID: <005001c806f5$3983eb00$0502a8c0@desktop> Foter's, for those who have sent in deposits, the order is going in tomorrow and the manufacturer needs to know what cars they are going into. I know of a couple TR6's, a TR250 and I don't know if the others are TR4's or TR4A's. Could you please email me with the type of car they are to be used on. Any others that want one needs to get a hold of Ken immediately to be included in this order. Thanks, Charly From dos_gusanos at msn.com Thu Oct 4 11:12:29 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:12:29 -0600 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - In-Reply-To: <213035CF-A262-4A83-A844-28E8AB18B76A@bnj.com> References: <213035CF-A262-4A83-A844-28E8AB18B76A@bnj.com> Message-ID: And every year I add my two cents on the subject in support of a '67 cutoff. If you have a period prepared car, I think it sucks to run with guys who have flares, slicks and every thing else money can buy. If you look at road racing participants and spectators today in relation to the enormous growth in population that has ocurred in the US since the end of the "Vintage era" road racing is really in the tank compared to any other form of motorsport. Additionally, what is the difference between a '72 legal car and current SCCA standards? Not a lot if you are looking through the windshield of a TR3 on 4.5" rims. Clubs now are considering going beyond '72 when road racing died. I prefer to run with the clubs that honor the pre 67 era and will vote with my wallet. (HSR, never again) If all the clubs go to '72 I will quit and go sailing or golfing or whatever. I went to the Elva reunion and although it was fun to see all the Elvas, I would really rather race a Porsche 356 that is prepared to the period. Cheers Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, NM > From: billb at bnj.com> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:03:46 -0700> To: Group44TR7 at aol.com> CC: westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; JWoesvra at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 -> > Sovren is going through a fierce debate on changing their eligibility > requirements from 1968 to 1972. So far I think most members want to > stick with 1968, though I think it limits the participation of people > from other clubs. It's too bad there isn't enough cooperation at a > national level to enable vintage eligibility to be defined country-wide.> > On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote:> > > Amici> >> > I do not believe that a year has gone by whilst I have been an > > FOT participant ( 199?) that the subject of requirements of various > > sanctioning bodies has not been a topic of FOT discussion. > > Especially the requirements to meet specific preparation > > requirements, which for many Triumphs is the 1972 SCCA GRC.> >> > Frankly I do not know where and when it was first decided to > > use the 1972 SCCA GRC, but I do know that it was already in use > > when I started vintage racing in about 1990. It has always struck > > me as particularly ironic that the body work modification (wheel > > flares) that were allowed in 1972 were not allowed in vintage > > racing and that relatively little was actually being done at many > > events to enforce adherence to preparation of 1972 GRC engine > > specifications other than obvious visible modifications like the > > carbs.> >> > One of the benefits of owning a Group 44 racecar, as I am sure > > it is with Kas's old racecars as well, is to see the innovation > > that was done within the rules to make the cars more competitive. > > One of the frustration is that keeping the car as it was originally > > raced means that you are at a competitive disadvantage to other > > historic as well as newly constucted vintage racecars that are > > using the latest technology. As a driver/owner, you simply have to > > accept that you never going to be the fastest car on the track as > > they were in their day.> >> > The second point that I would like to make is that alot of time > > has passed since I first did vintage racing. I am glad that SVAR > > has opened the door for participation by post 1972 cars that have > > have a racing history. If I can change what is a major conflict in > > my business schedule with the Watkins Glen event and some other > > logisitcal challenges, you all just might get to see the Group 44 > > TR7 - Aussy Playboy TR7 in action at the Glen for the first time > > since 1975.> >> > If its slower than you expected - well some of you know Bob > > Tullius, and I am not anywhere close to Bob Tullius. It truly a > > great priviledge to even drive the same car as the him.> >> > Cary> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.> _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sat Oct 6 10:56:50 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 09:56:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 1971 CP Runoffs References: <7691307.1191607728386.JavaMail.ra85@drexel.edu> Message-ID: <003101c80839$e39f86e0$5717c548@RW> This link, sent to me by Bob Adams, will give you a neat video of the 1971 Atlanta Runoffs in Class C. Lee Mueller was driving my TR-6 and it is some close and good hard racing. > > http://www.guba.com/watch/3000000528 From budscars at msn.com Sat Oct 6 20:01:38 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 19:01:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON Message-ID: Hi Gang..Are any of you racing in/Attending the CSRG Charity challenge at Infineon next weekend?..I will be there with my 1967 dark blue Spitfire #21....Gary Horskorta will be racing his red TR4..My bet is that Ron Jacobs(havn't met you yet Ron) will be racing his TR4..and I can't remember the name of the Guy in the /Red Devin Triumph..we have 260+ entries...I will be saving pit space in the area behind the Grandstands for THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang(Look for the Banner)......It will be great if you Guys join us...I won't be able to save enough room for transporters...I usually grab a polite amount of space..6-12 cars..Not All Triumphs....All great people.....If you cannot pit with us..PLEASE Stop By and hang out for the entire weekend if you like...Everyone is always welcome..And your Help working on/giving input on the cars is Always Appreciated....We Truly Are..The Way It Was..Whoohoo!.. Thanks Folks Racer Bud and THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang From billb at bnj.com Sat Oct 6 20:22:14 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 19:22:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The guy with the red devin is Bill Hart. I'm pretty sure he will be there since I know tony Garmey is towing down. Peyote is in bits, the frame is a lot worse than I thought it was, I'm going to have to replace a lot of it. But I might drive down just to spectate and for the ride. On Oct 6, 2007, at 7:01 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > Hi Gang..Are any of you racing in/Attending the CSRG Charity > challenge at > Infineon next weekend?..I will be there with my 1967 dark blue > Spitfire > #21....Gary Horskorta will be racing his red TR4..My bet is that Ron > Jacobs(havn't met you yet Ron) will be racing his TR4..and I can't > remember > the name of the Guy in the /Red Devin Triumph..we have 260+ > entries...I will > be saving pit space in the area behind the Grandstands for THE OLD > GUYS STILL > DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang(Look for the Banner)......It > will be great > if you Guys join us...I won't be able to save enough room for > transporters...I > usually grab a polite amount of space..6-12 cars..Not All > Triumphs....All > great people.....If you cannot pit with us..PLEASE Stop By and hang > out for > the entire weekend if you like...Everyone is always welcome..And > your Help > working on/giving input on the cars is Always Appreciated....We > Truly Are..The > Way It Was..Whoohoo!.. > Thanks Folks > Racer Bud and THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Sat Oct 6 20:24:12 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 19:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] 1971 CP Runoffs In-Reply-To: <003101c80839$e39f86e0$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <986262.2912.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Kas, some great video. Is there more of it? It would be great to see the DP, EP, FP, GP and HP clips. Or was the focus around the datsuns and CP, BS? Kas Kastner wrote: This link, sent to me by Bob Adams, will give you a neat video of the 1971 Atlanta Runoffs in Class C. Lee Mueller was driving my TR-6 and it is some close and good hard racing. > > http://www.guba.com/watch/3000000528 jaxonracing at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! From budscars at msn.com Sat Oct 6 20:32:03 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 19:32:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON References: Message-ID: Hello Bill..Sorry about Peyote..Hang in Man!...Stay in the Loop..I know you will..I have a new engine for my Spitfire, after busting a crank at Laguna Seca.... and.. parking in the sand =Oil+Sand....We have it Made Gang! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "RACER BUD" Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON > The guy with the red devin is Bill Hart. I'm pretty sure he will be there > since I know tony Garmey is towing down. Peyote is in bits, the frame is > a lot worse than I thought it was, I'm going to have to replace a lot of > it. But I might drive down just to spectate and for the ride. > On Oct 6, 2007, at 7:01 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > >> Hi Gang..Are any of you racing in/Attending the CSRG Charity challenge >> at >> Infineon next weekend?..I will be there with my 1967 dark blue Spitfire >> #21....Gary Horskorta will be racing his red TR4..My bet is that Ron >> Jacobs(havn't met you yet Ron) will be racing his TR4..and I can't >> remember >> the name of the Guy in the /Red Devin Triumph..we have 260+ entries...I >> will >> be saving pit space in the area behind the Grandstands for THE OLD GUYS >> STILL >> DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang(Look for the Banner)......It will be >> great >> if you Guys join us...I won't be able to save enough room for >> transporters...I >> usually grab a polite amount of space..6-12 cars..Not All >> Triumphs....All >> great people.....If you cannot pit with us..PLEASE Stop By and hang out >> for >> the entire weekend if you like...Everyone is always welcome..And your >> Help >> working on/giving input on the cars is Always Appreciated....We Truly >> Are..The >> Way It Was..Whoohoo!.. >> Thanks Folks >> Racer Bud and THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> billb at bnj.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 7 13:45:56 2007 From: westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net (westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 19:45:56 +0000 Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON Message-ID: <100720071945.6120.470937730009557B000017E82158766720990E04D2069D@att.net> I will be at the CSRG Charity Challenge. My car is the dark blue number 484. Look forward to meeting you and seeing how Gary's TR runs with all the work he has done on it since we last raced together. Of course my car has just be sitting at Genoa gathering dust. I'm told it will start however. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from "RACER BUD" : -------------- > Hello Bill..Sorry about Peyote..Hang in Man!...Stay in the Loop..I know you > will..I have a new engine for my Spitfire, after busting a crank at Laguna > Seca.... and.. parking in the sand =Oil+Sand....We have it Made Gang! > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Babcock" > To: "RACER BUD" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 7:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON > > > > The guy with the red devin is Bill Hart. I'm pretty sure he will be there > > since I know tony Garmey is towing down. Peyote is in bits, the frame is > > a lot worse than I thought it was, I'm going to have to replace a lot of > > it. But I might drive down just to spectate and for the ride. > > On Oct 6, 2007, at 7:01 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > > > >> Hi Gang..Are any of you racing in/Attending the CSRG Charity challenge > >> at > >> Infineon next weekend?..I will be there with my 1967 dark blue Spitfire > >> #21....Gary Horskorta will be racing his red TR4..My bet is that Ron > >> Jacobs(havn't met you yet Ron) will be racing his TR4..and I can't > >> remember > >> the name of the Guy in the /Red Devin Triumph..we have 260+ entries...I > >> will > >> be saving pit space in the area behind the Grandstands for THE OLD GUYS > >> STILL > >> DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang(Look for the Banner)......It will be > >> great > >> if you Guys join us...I won't be able to save enough room for > >> transporters...I > >> usually grab a polite amount of space..6-12 cars..Not All > >> Triumphs....All > >> great people.....If you cannot pit with us..PLEASE Stop By and hang out > >> for > >> the entire weekend if you like...Everyone is always welcome..And your > >> Help > >> working on/giving input on the cars is Always Appreciated....We Truly > >> Are..The > >> Way It Was..Whoohoo!.. > >> Thanks Folks > >> Racer Bud and THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang > >> _______________________________________________ > >> http://www.team.net/donate.html > >> > >> billb at bnj.com > >> Fot mailing list > >> Fot at autox.team.net > >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > westerneagleracing at att.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From keithfiles at btinternet.com Sat Oct 6 11:28:03 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 18:28:03 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <20071006173059.4D3BE187A5A@autox.team.net> HI everybody, Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on the cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver TR6 placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won outright at VIR in 2004. My TR6 has: Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 pistons (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 DCOE Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, luminiton ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic RaceCraft for the princely sum of c $20k. Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, Quartermaster clutch. Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on circuit). Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot callipers (these do make a big difference). Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs less than a standard road car. Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) by a country mile. At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well driven spitfires. As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over in 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys just to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kas Kastner Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Munson" To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > 1900 > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > higher level than what SCCA does. > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > Mike Munson > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > run > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > standards. > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > championship > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From keithfiles at btinternet.com Sat Oct 6 14:32:15 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 21:32:15 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <000701c80856$88dd8e10$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <20071006203439.540C41879D8@autox.team.net> Hi Kas, Over here some people run drivers door, front and rear panels as GRP with the floor panels, inner boot panels and inner wings in aluminium; now that is light! I know of one guy who has a complete hand made aluminium body shell on his TR6, the car weighs in at 800kgs!!! Hope to see you at either Mosport in July or at Watkins Glen in September; I hope to be at both events. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: Kas Kastner [mailto:kaskas at cox.net] Sent: 06 October 2007 21:22 To: Keith Files; 'Mike Munson'; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Let's see Keith, hood, boot, top, door and wings..........duh, that is ALL the panels, except the passenger door.:-) But, the engine sounds like all the things I wish I had had in the olden days. In particular that crank and rods. And, glad to hear from you and that you are coming over again. With dollar/pound issue, it is doubtful anyone will be coming your way soon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Files" To: "'Kas Kastner'" ; "'Mike Munson'" ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: RE: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > HI everybody, > > Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on > the > cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion > either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when > compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the > Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver > TR6 > placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won > outright > at VIR in 2004. > > My TR6 has: > > Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 > pistons > (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, > Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 > DCOE > Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, > luminiton > ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic > RaceCraft > for the princely sum of c $20k. > > Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, > Quartermaster clutch. > > Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on > circuit). > > Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where > terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. > > Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot > callipers (these do make a big difference). > > Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers > door > and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs > less than a standard road car. > > Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. > > The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by > Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. > > The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as > well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then > Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) > by > a country mile. > > At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a > Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over > here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well > driven spitfires. > > As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over > in > 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am > going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over > youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys > just > to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are > available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are > some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). > > As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. > > Cheers, Keith. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Kas Kastner > Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 > To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; > ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; > sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; > fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they > do > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Munson" > To: ; ; ; > ; ; ; > ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > >> Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite >> understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel >> injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs >> 1900 >> pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. >> I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage >> organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a >> higher level than what SCCA does. >> >> The cars from England are another story altogether. >> >> Mike Munson >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 >> >> In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: >> >> Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class >> within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and >> run >> >> under current SCCA regulations. >> >> >> We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage >> standards. >> >> The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national >> championship >> and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. >> >> Jack Woehrle >> SVRA Technical Director >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > keithfiles at btinternet.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Mon Oct 8 10:15:25 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 11:15:25 -0500 Subject: [Fot] competition valves Message-ID: <200710081615.l98GFY4F069480@ns3.geneseo.net> I've disassembled two TR4 engines that have valves with three retainer grooves instead of one. These must be standard in some other existing engine. Does anybody know where these are from? uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From budscars at msn.com Mon Oct 8 19:17:36 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 18:17:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] test Message-ID: Hi gang..I am having computer probs..please respond. for test. Thanks Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 Sonoma. ca. From stutzmans at comcast.net Mon Oct 8 19:45:31 2007 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 21:45:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] oil filter by pass valve Message-ID: <001201c80a16$13ca6a50$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> Who knows at what PSI the by pass valve opens in the TR3-4 filter head? Many of us are using the spin on oil filter adaptor and filters with internal by pass valves that open at 8-11 PSI. So we have 2 by pass valves. Bruce From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Oct 8 22:13:16 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 22:13:16 -0600 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 References: <60C60298-D6F5-49E0-AD6C-CADFDA3605A0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM MDT > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > >> >> FoTers, >> I think Henry Morrison will be as surprised as I, to find myself >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this discussion >> several times before. However... Personally, I encourage expanded >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for bigger grids. >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a earlier >> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR. >> Regarding your car Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high >> level of preparation, wouldn't it be more concise to list what it >> DID leave the factory with? To me " All original steel panels >> except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door, all 4 wings and >> hardtop " is like saying " all original car except for body, >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know what GRP is >> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the >> rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of >> the art [which your car sounds to be] - not >> "an act or scheme to out whit or deceive" {Webster} >> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no disrespect aimed at >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason. >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules >> read: >> >> Engine: >> >> Same type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit). >> Period correct roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. >> Compression Ratio is limited to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be >> documented as higher from the factory as delivered for street >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and period correct. No aluminum >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless originally sold as >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free but must not conflict >> with stock type appearance of body. >> >> >> Carburetion: >> Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi >> count). No Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped. >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------- >> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in compliance with the >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host club] is even more strict >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 was [as graciously >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an inch of it's >> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group >> [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I >> doubt if Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - >> not really fair to the others. >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how my Vintage prepped >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans to attend >> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain! >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. From Group44TR7 at aol.com Tue Oct 9 07:10:31 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:10:31 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen 2008 - FOT GRC standard for Kastner Cup ? Message-ID: Amici One of the underlying fundamental reasons why there are many different sanctioning organizations is that there is no consensus on vintage preparation standards. Further, reflected in the differing standards is a fundamental difference in philosophy about the preparation of cars for racing. And even further, there is even more basic difference of philosophy about cars themselves; General racing for example has typically only included cars that have a real race history. On one extreme, we have only cars with an actual race history that supposedly is prepared to the same specifications as when they were raced and on opposite end is newly constructed/reconstructed race cars utilizing new technology. For FOT to have an event, it means that a compromise has to be reached to allow these cars to compete together. Philosophically, there is also a very big difference between drivers. On one extreme there are people who simply want to have fun driving as fast as they can with their car and the opposite extreme of someone who wants to win a competition. It would seem that we should have an agreement amongst FOT for those who want to compete as to the level of preparation allowed, a sort very basic of FOT GRC for the Kastner Cup that preferably references an already existing GRC. If you are in not in compliance, you simply are not eligible - but you can go on the track (if accepted by SVRA) to have fun driving your car. Thanks for listening, Cary ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From DSPGTi at aol.com Tue Oct 9 08:03:42 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:03:42 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen 2008 - FOT GRC standard for Kastner Cup ? Message-ID: Is anyone familiar with the MG groups awarding of the Collier Cup at the Zippo GP? They have their own group race like the one we will get next year. What I know of it is that is awarded by popular vote amoung the competitors that goes to the driver of the car that most exemplifies the spirit and preservation of an original prepared MG. It almost never goes to the race winner. It will sometimes be the MGTC running in the back, sometimes the an MGB running in the middle maybe a Sebring GT near the front. It's about the preservation of history and originality that counts, not the speed. How many times do we have to be reminded that it is all about the cars, not who's fastest. Fastest is for SCCA, NASA, EMRA, IMSA, NASCAR etc,etc. Dave Y. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 9 08:22:41 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:22:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen 2008 - FOT GRC standard for Kastner Cup ? Message-ID: That's IT! Thanks Dave Y!! > Is anyone familiar with the MG groups awarding of the Collier Cup at the > Zippo GP? They have their own group race like the one we will get next year. > > What I know of it is that is awarded by popular vote amoung the competitors > that > goes to the driver of the car that most exemplifies the spirit and > preservation of an original prepared MG. It almost never goes to the race > winner. It > will sometimes be the MGTC running in the back, sometimes the an MGB > running in > the middle maybe a Sebring GT near the front. It's about the preservation > of > history and originality that counts, not the speed. > > How many times do we have to be reminded that it is all about the cars, not > who's fastest. Fastest is for SCCA, NASA, EMRA, IMSA, NASCAR etc,etc. > > Dave Y. > > From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 9 08:29:27 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:29:27 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nomination to FoT Another TR3 Message-ID: FoT Steve Preiss is preparing a 1956 TR3 to 1962 GCRs. His level of competition is to be decided, but a driver's school is planned. This effort is shades of "Rosebud" and is worthy of our support. He will be sharing information and seeking advice on engine build and suspension set up. I nominate Steve Preiss....do I hear a second? (Does anyone know him personally?) Steve Preiss 6908 Heyward Street Philadelphia, PA 19119 spreiss at verizon.net Thanks, Joe Alexander From alfetta95 at optonline.net Tue Oct 9 08:58:45 2007 From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (alfetta95 at optonline.net) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:58:45 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination to FoT Another TR3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I second. Welcome Steve! Todd Redmond 1958 TR3A ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2007 10:29 am Subject: [Fot] Nomination to FoT Another TR3 To: fot at autox.team.net > FoT > > Steve Preiss is preparing a 1956 TR3 to 1962 GCRs. His level of > competition > is to be decided, but a driver's school is planned. This effort > is shades of > "Rosebud" and is worthy of our support. He will be sharing > information and > seeking advice on engine build and suspension set up. > > I nominate Steve Preiss....do I hear a second? (Does anyone know > him > personally?) > > Steve Preiss > 6908 Heyward Street > Philadelphia, PA 19119 > spreiss at verizon.net > > > Thanks, > > Joe Alexander > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > alfetta95 at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cartravel at pobox.com Tue Oct 9 09:20:10 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:20:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> References: <60C60298-D6F5-49E0-AD6C-CADFDA3605A0@earthlink.net> <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <470B9C2A.7050300@pobox.com> The awarding of the Kastner Cup is completely up to Kas, as it should be. I know Kas applies his own weighting factors. If you want something done by popular vote, like the MG Collier Cup, then someone needs to come up with a new cup. Larry Young Greg "Lunker" Hilyer wrote: >>> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >>> - Someone please enlighten me. From Group44TR7 at aol.com Tue Oct 9 09:38:15 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:38:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - Clarification Message-ID: I only included the Kastner Cup Challenge in my subject line because I inferred from the dialog that the Kastner Cup Challenge was going to be the name of the event. My comments were intended to address the issues being addressed by Keith and others about the differences in preparation of various competition cars. Obviously the competitive spirit is alive even amongst the vintage group. Frankly, it would be in all of our financial interests to adopt a uniform standard simply to prevent escalation costs of car preparation.There was a group within the Porsche club that got smart and started the 2 liter class with minimal preparation. Cary In a message dated 10/9/2007 8:21:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cartravel at pobox.com writes: The awarding of the Kastner Cup is completely up to Kas, as it should be. I know Kas applies his own weighting factors. If you want something done by popular vote, like the MG Collier Cup, then someone needs to come up with a new cup. Larry Young Greg "Lunker" Hilyer wrote: >>> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >>> - Someone please enlighten me. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From REK46 at aol.com Tue Oct 9 09:38:05 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:38:05 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: so make sure you give Kas a couple Martini's and a good steak ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Tue Oct 9 10:08:54 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:08:54 -0500 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - Clarification In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820AE28315@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> I don't know how practical addressing performance differences can be. We can't do that very well even in our club. I think that we all just have to accept that if we are truely vintage then we are racing a "point in time car". We each get to pick out point in time based on the car we have and the local rules. I may not be able to run with the cars from a different part of the country that are built to different year specs and rules but we always have somebody to race with. Being passed by the Group 44 TR6 is not a problem. It would have heppened back in the day too. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Group44TR7 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:38 AM To: cartravel at pobox.com; lunkercars at earthlink.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 - Clarification I only included the Kastner Cup Challenge in my subject line because I inferred from the dialog that the Kastner Cup Challenge was going to be the name of the event. My comments were intended to address the issues being addressed by Keith and others about the differences in preparation of various competition cars. Obviously the competitive spirit is alive even amongst the vintage group. Frankly, it would be in all of our financial interests to adopt a uniform standard simply to prevent escalation costs of car preparation.There was a group within the Porsche club that got smart and started the 2 liter class with minimal preparation. Cary In a message dated 10/9/2007 8:21:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cartravel at pobox.com writes: The awarding of the Kastner Cup is completely up to Kas, as it should be. I know Kas applies his own weighting factors. If you want something done by popular vote, like the MG Collier Cup, then someone needs to come up with a new cup. Larry Young Greg "Lunker" Hilyer wrote: >>> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >>> - Someone please enlighten me. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html rkramer at rdoequipment.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Tue Oct 9 10:16:54 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 12:16:54 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Watkins_Glen_2008_-_FOT_GRC_standard_for_Kas?= =?iso-8859-1?q?tner_Cup=A0_=3F?= Message-ID: As a guy who races a TR3 that has been a race car sincve 1959 and is building the Group 44 GT6 up I might actually have half a chance on winnign something with theis idea. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 Is anyone familiar with the MG groups awarding of the Collier Cup at the Zippo GP? They have their own group race like the one we will get next year. What I know of it is that is awarded by popular vote amoung the competitors that goes to the driver of the car that most exemplifies the spirit and preservation of an original prepared MG. It almost never goes to the race winner. It will sometimes be the MGTC running in the back, sometimes the an MGB running in the middle maybe a Sebring GT near the front. It's about the preservation of history and originality that counts, not the speed. How many times do we have to be reminded that it is all about the cars, not who's fastest. Fastest is for SCCA, NASA, EMRA, IMSA, NASCAR etc,etc. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From kaskas at cox.net Tue Oct 9 10:19:40 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:19:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Kastner Cup Message-ID: <004601c80a90$31883e80$5717c548@RW> There is no mystery on the cup presentation. In the very beginning I wanted to offer this cup to participants that had Triumph cars that were excellent examples of presentation & preparation, the driver an advocate and involved person in Vintage type racing and results from the Triumph competition on the track. The values being approximately 25%, 25% and 50%. There are two provisions: 1. No driver can win the cup in consecutive years. 2. The cup is to be awarded once each year and moved around the country to give opportunity to as many drivers as possible and a venue agreed by the overall Triumph participants. In general it is East Coast, Central Area and West Coast on a rotation basis. This has given us to date: Mosport, Ontario Canada, Buttonwillow California, Atlanta Raceway, Georgia, Hallet, Oklahoma, and the last, Miller Park, Utah. Too date race winners have been chosen three out of five events, DNF occurrences in the race event and other entanglements during the race did take some possible winners out of contention three times. From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 9 09:59:13 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:59:13 EDT Subject: [Fot] Kastner Cup Challenge-Car Eligibility and Awarding of Cup Message-ID: FoT, Every time we have a major event for the FoT, there is some sort of controversy. That's Ok, to a point. SVRA has always worked well with us on car eligibility to that end that seems to make the sense....at least to me. But we cant please everyone. (ipso facto) There is a method in place for the awarding of the Kastner Cup. For the time being it will remain in place. Perhaps we could bring the current list wide controversies to a close.....in the best interests of FoT. This is likely to be the best FoT Gathering that we have ever had. I would rather build on that premise than hash over issues that are likely have no good solutions. If anyone has any further heartburn, on this subject, please contact me directly and privately. I'll try my best to deal with it. Best Regards, Joe Alexander From Group44TR7 at aol.com Tue Oct 9 06:51:36 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:51:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Message-ID: Amici One of the underlying fundamental reasons why there are many different sanctioning organizations is that there is no consensus on vintage preparation standards. Further, reflected in the differing standards is a fundamental difference in philosophy about the preparation of cars for racing. And even further, there is even more basic difference of philosophy about cars themselves; General racing for example has typically only included cars that have a real race history. On one extreme, we have only cars with an actual race history that supposedly is prepared to the same specifications as when they were raced and on opposite end is newly constructed race cars utilizing new technology. For FOT to have an event, it means that a compromise has to be reached to allow these cars to compete together. Philosophically, there is also a very big difference between drivers. On one extreme there are people who simply want to have fun driving as fast as they can with their car and the opposite extreme of someone who wants to win a competition. It would seem that we should have an agreement amongst FOT for those who want to compete as to the level of preparation allowed, a sort very basic of FOT GRC for the Kastner Cup that preferably references an already existing GRC. If you are in not in compliance, you simply are not eligible - but you can go on the track (if accepted by SVRA) to have fun driving your car. Thanks for listening, Cary In a message dated 10/8/2007 9:13:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lunkercars at earthlink.net writes: Begin forwarded message: > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM MDT > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > >> >> FoTers, >> I think Henry Morrison will be as surprised as I, to find myself >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this discussion >> several times before. However... Personally, I encourage expanded >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for bigger grids. >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a earlier >> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR. >> Regarding your car Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high >> level of preparation, wouldn't it be more concise to list what it >> DID leave the factory with? To me " All original steel panels >> except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door, all 4 wings and >> hardtop " is like saying " all original car except for body, >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know what GRP is >> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the >> rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of >> the art [which your car sounds to be] - not >> "an act or scheme to out whit or deceive" {Webster} >> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no disrespect aimed at >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason. >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules >> read: >> >> Engine: >> >> Same type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit). >> Period correct roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. >> Compression Ratio is limited to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be >> documented as higher from the factory as delivered for street >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and period correct. No aluminum >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless originally sold as >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free but must not conflict >> with stock type appearance of body. >> >> >> Carburetion: >> Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi >> count). No Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped. >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------- >> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in compliance with the >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host club] is even more strict >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 was [as graciously >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an inch of it's >> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group >> [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I >> doubt if Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - >> not really fair to the others. >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how my Vintage prepped >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans to attend >> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain! >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. group44tr7 at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Mon Oct 8 17:18:24 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoffrey Byrne) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:18:24 +1000 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 References: <20071006173059.4D3BE187A5A@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <000a01c80a01$887a2350$41e3efdc@co3017577a> Friends Just to add an international perspective for interest , Keiths car would not get an Historic Log Book in Australia . Our Historic cars have to be OEM with very little mods ie plus one inch wider wheels Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Files" To: "'Kas Kastner'" ; "'Mike Munson'" ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 3:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > HI everybody, > > Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on the > cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion > either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when > compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the > Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver TR6 > placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won outright > at VIR in 2004. > > My TR6 has: > > Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 pistons > (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, > Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 DCOE > Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, luminiton > ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic RaceCraft > for the princely sum of c $20k. > > Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, > Quartermaster clutch. > > Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on > circuit). > > Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where > terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. > > Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot > callipers (these do make a big difference). > > Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door > and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs > less than a standard road car. > > Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. > > The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by > Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. > > The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as > well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then > Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) by > a country mile. > > At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a > Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over > here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well > driven spitfires. > > As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over in > 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am > going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over > youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys just > to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are > available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are > some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). > > As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. > > Cheers, Keith. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Kas Kastner > Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 > To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; > ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; > sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Munson" > To: ; ; ; > ; ; ; > ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > > 1900 > > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > > higher level than what SCCA does. > > > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > > > Mike Munson > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > > run > > > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > > standards. > > > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > > championship > > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > > > Jack Woehrle > > SVRA Technical Director > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > kaskas at cox.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > keithfiles at btinternet.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gkbyrne at optushome.com.au > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 10:48:39 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:48:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <20071006173059.4D3BE187A5A@autox.team.net> References: <01c701c8056b$2b602560$5717c548@RW> <20071006173059.4D3BE187A5A@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710080948q5a046676kabb4a7e1a12da23a@mail.gmail.com> Do, in SOVERN, the following would be illegal: +60 pistons [40=max] Any Webers [PI or two Strombergs only allowed] Roller rockers Maybe the tranny case Rear Konis [must use levers] Wilwood vented rotors Glass panels [any] So, what rate springs do you use [ponds/inch if possible] and what are their free lengths? Do you use a rear sway bar? Thanks. Hope to meet and race with you guys some time. Chuck Arnold On 10/6/07, Keith Files wrote: > > HI everybody, > > Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on > the > cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion > either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when > compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the > Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver > TR6 > placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won > outright > at VIR in 2004. > > My TR6 has: > > Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 > pistons > (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, > Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 > DCOE > Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, > luminiton > ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic > RaceCraft > for the princely sum of c $20k. > > Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, > Quartermaster clutch. > > Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on > circuit). > > Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where > terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. > > Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot > callipers (these do make a big difference). > > Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers > door > and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs > less than a standard road car. > > Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. > > The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by > Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. > > The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as > well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then > Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) > by > a country mile. > > At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a > Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over > here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well > driven spitfires. > > As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over > in > 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am > going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over > youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys > just > to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are > available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are > some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). > > As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. > > Cheers, Keith. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Kas Kastner > Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 > To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; > ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; > sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; > fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they > do > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Munson" > To: ; ; ; > ; ; ; > ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > > 1900 > > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > > higher level than what SCCA does. > > > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > > > Mike Munson > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > > run > > > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > > standards. > > > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > > championship > > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > > > Jack Woehrle > > SVRA Technical Director > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > kaskas at cox.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > keithfiles at btinternet.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 9 09:48:14 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Re:FOT GRC standard ...thankyou Cary, ..and foot in mouth disease ... Message-ID: <585641.8640.qm@web81109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry, forgot to click reply to all ... so here goes... Note: forwarded message attached. Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire Received: from [69.217.62.46] by web81106.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Oct 2007 08:43:10 PDT Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:43:09 -0700 (PDT) From: tom strange Subject: Re:FOT GRC standard ...thankyou Cary, ..and foot in mouth disease ... To: Group44TR7 at aol.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 3203 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Thank you cary for a very well written letter .. I thought that the FOT was all about camaraderie, promoting triumphs (in all venues), working together to solve problems, promote reliability and safety; and most of all to HAVE FUN. Please bear with my rant, and forgive blunders committed here. Vintage cars are going away. Racing is getting more expensive; becoming a deterrent to many people all by itself. As much as we may not want to face it, the older cars are getting harder to find, and more expensive to maintain. We have to decide if we want to have vintage racing just for us, and be an exclusive club that outlaws all new members and ideas or if we want to let the sport grow as things change. People racing 2008 BMWs will one day find that they cannot compete with the "new cars" but will love their car, and will want to continue to race it. Yes, it will then be a "vintage car". Eligibility talk came up after a bad accident at Road America. Many people expressed the sentiment that the accident happened because the cars were not "vintage correct". Wrong. The accident happened because "driver attitude" was not period correct. Everyone wanted to "clamp down" on the mods.. Very little comment was pointed toward clamping down on drivers with a bad attitude, or a record of causing accidents. Sorry folks, but guns do not shoot people, and cars do not cause accidents. People do. There are solutions. Midwestern council has an easy out. We have a class that can (and is) applied to all groups, classes etc. for cars that do not comply. They race with cars of comparable lap times, power / weight (in other words  in their proper class) but display the letters UNR  unrestricted. They cannot win points to take wins away from legal cars, but they do get to race, have fun, and play with their proper competitors. Drivers with Council who do not race in the spirit of their run group, are put on probation, or simply asked to leave. I dont think any current SCCA triumph is going to come to a national FOT event with plans to WIN against cars prepared to a 30 year old GCR. I dont think any properly prepared vintage car should have to compete against them either a simple UNR would fix that For that matter, any vintage driver who comes to a national FOT event simply to win, is not there in the spirit of vintage racing anymore than the SCCA driver who wants to use his advanced mods etc. to win and gain bragging rights. The bragging rights come from the fact that we all ran, we all had fun and we all went home safely. The cars should not be sent home from such an event because they are not completely eligible, but the drivers who race to win "at any cost" should be. Sorry for the long post and the rant, but I fear that we could tear a great group of people apart if we start arguing about eligibility at this event. Lets all play and we all have fun. Since it is a vintage group, those of us who do not fit in completely should respect the vintage spirit what we can do to fit in, we should do. If we are not completely eligible, lets leave the trophies to those who are, and most importantly, lets race in the spirit of vintage racing, whether we are vintage legal or not. My understanding is that the Kastner cup goes for promotion of the spirit of vintage racing, and thats the way it should be. I doubt that it will go to a current SCCA car, that races to win at any cost. Kas, please correct me if I am wrong Two notes to leave you with  at the Morgan festival at RA, there were brand new Morgans running because they were the featured car. They did not detract from the vintage morgans in any way this is the way it is at many events. Every year from the beginning of racing to today there are cars running that do not comply with the rules they just havent been caught at it I believe Kas has said that finding ways to make the rules work for you, and finding the things that are NOT specifically illegal, are the edges that many winning teams use to get where they are Lets not spend time arguing lets race. Thanks for listening . Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: Amici Philosophically, there is also a very big difference between drivers. On one extreme there are people who simply want to have fun driving as fast as they can with their car and the opposite extreme of someone who wants to win a competition. It would seem that we should have an agreement amongst FOT for those who want to compete as to the level of preparation allowed, a sort very basic of FOT GRC for the Kastner Cup that preferably references an already existing GRC. If you are in not in compliance, you simply are not eligible - but you can go on the track (if accepted by SVRA) to have fun driving your car. Thanks for listening, Cary ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com tstrange at sbcglobal.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Oct 9 19:17:50 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:17:50 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans Message-ID: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque N.M. From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 09:29:39 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:29:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710100829id1b7ffy93462ec9e45b8b8e@mail.gmail.com> On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one for a TR5/6 On 10/9/07, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: > > Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans > anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett > last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have > the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at > the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque N.M. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Oct 10 08:32:39 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:32:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] GT6 Racer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Check out the GT6. Some one on the list may know the car. It is local to me if anyone is interested. NFI Paul -----Original Message----- From: Kijiji Alerts [mailto:alerts at kijiji.com] Sent: October 10, 2007 1:38 AM To: macdonaldp at rogers.com Subject: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars Ottawa Home | Post Ad | My Kijiji | Help Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars 10-Oct-07 1974 Triumph TR6 ( $18,500.00 ) TRIUMPH GT6 RACE CAR PLUS SPARE CAR FOR PARTS CHEAP! ( $4,800.00 ) See all the Ads If you have any questions or concerns, visit contact us. Regards, The Kijiji Team -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unsubscribe from: This Alert | All Alerts Help About Privacy Policy Terms of Use Contact Kijiji Copyright ) 2005-2007 Kijiji International Limited. From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Oct 10 07:55:25 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:55:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars Message-ID: Check out the GT6. Some one on the list may know the car. It is local to me if anyone is interested. NFI Paul -----Original Message----- From: Kijiji Alerts [mailto:alerts at kijiji.com] Sent: October 10, 2007 1:38 AM To: macdonaldp at rogers.com Subject: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars Ottawa Home | Post Ad | My Kijiji | Help Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars 10-Oct-07 1974 Triumph TR6 ( $18,500.00 ) TRIUMPH GT6 RACE CAR PLUS SPARE CAR FOR PARTS CHEAP! ( $4,800.00 ) See all the Ads If you have any questions or concerns, visit contact us. Regards, The Kijiji Team -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unsubscribe from: This Alert | All Alerts Help About Privacy Policy Terms of Use Contact Kijiji Copyright ) 2005-2007 Kijiji International Limited. From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Tue Oct 9 23:30:03 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:30:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002101c80afe$9c8b3980$171a694c@computer> Hi, Bud, My race car is a '74 TR6 so not compatible with CSRG racing but I would like to come and see some vintage racing and, of course, partake of your booth. If I can only make it for one day, what day would you suggest and what times on that day? Thanks and I hope to see you and the other FOT guys there. Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 7:02 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] CSRG CHARITY CHALLENGE AT INFINEON Hi Gang..Are any of you racing in/Attending the CSRG Charity challenge at Infineon next weekend?..I will be there with my 1967 dark blue Spitfire #21....Gary Horskorta will be racing his red TR4..My bet is that Ron Jacobs(havn't met you yet Ron) will be racing his TR4..and I can't remember the name of the Guy in the /Red Devin Triumph..we have 260+ entries...I will be saving pit space in the area behind the Grandstands for THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang(Look for the Banner)......It will be great if you Guys join us...I won't be able to save enough room for transporters...I usually grab a polite amount of space..6-12 cars..Not All Triumphs....All great people.....If you cannot pit with us..PLEASE Stop By and hang out for the entire weekend if you like...Everyone is always welcome..And your Help working on/giving input on the cars is Always Appreciated....We Truly Are..The Way It Was..Whoohoo!.. Thanks Folks Racer Bud and THE OLD GUYS STILL DUMB ENOUGH TO RACE CHALLENGE Gang Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 10 10:01:08 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:01:08 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans and scattershields In-Reply-To: References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Thanks all, For some reason my trans request took 12+ hrs. to get posted on the list. I've got one on its way to a bus station in Wisconsin due to leach Abq. late tomorrow night. $85 plus a bus ticket on E-Bay... Sometimes you just gotta' love the on-line world. The Plum Pi just might make another grid. Regarding your scattershield question Chuck, I'm hoping that Henry might sell me something less than 1000' of used conveyor belt. I'm thinking that, combined with a aluminum inner skin should make for something workable. If I get my hands on some belt, I would be happy to send some out to anyone who wants some [can we work something out Henry?]. Greg Hilyer TR4 #314 P.S. Henry, I did send Rob a e-mail last night - I'll probably hear from him on my way back from the bus station. On Oct 10, 2007, at 9:36 AM, wrote: > Check with Rob Noyes Smith 821-4369 He's got one, hem ight not > want to part with it........Henry > > > To: fot at autox.team.net > > From: lunkercars at earthlink.net > > Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:17:50 -0600 > > Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans > > > > Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans > > anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in > Hallett > > last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have > > the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. > Looking at > > the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > > TR4 #314 > > Albuquerque N.M. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 10 10:06:06 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:06:06 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? In-Reply-To: <5C33EB5352EE814AB72F655EA92399A20EF7FC7A@exc2-na-chq.bfusa.com> References: <5C33EB5352EE814AB72F655EA92399A20EF7FC7A@exc2-na-chq.bfusa.com> Message-ID: Sure - Please send info just in case Henry does have a 1000' minimum... Honestly, I would be interested in seeing a picture of one. Greg On Oct 10, 2007, at 9:50 AM, Coffey, Jack wrote: > Chuck...Greg....I have a Deist blanket type scattershield...never > used. > If interested, I can send pix & look up what I paid for it > See attached e-mail for further info on attachment & development by > Mordy Dunst & John Frymark > > Jack Coffey > ph:615-937-1535 > coffeyjack at bfusa.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Chuck Arnold > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 10:30 AM > To: Greg Lunker Hilyer > Cc: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? > > On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one > for a > TR5/6 > > On 10/9/07, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: >> >> Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans >> anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett >> last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have >> the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at >> the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> triosan at gmail.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > coffeyjack at bfusa.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Oct 10 11:13:11 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:13:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here is the link. http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-2-TRIUMPH-GT6-MK-3-SPOR TS-CARS-PLUS-PARTS-BARGAIN-PRICED-W0QQAdIdZ26228231 It is about 1.5 hours from me..not really local. Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Paul MacDonald Sent: October 10, 2007 9:55 AM To: Fot Subject: [Fot] FW: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars Check out the GT6. Some one on the list may know the car. It is local to me if anyone is interested. NFI Paul -----Original Message----- From: Kijiji Alerts [mailto:alerts at kijiji.com] Sent: October 10, 2007 1:38 AM To: macdonaldp at rogers.com Subject: Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars Ottawa Home | Post Ad | My Kijiji | Help Newest Kijiji Ottawa Ads for "triumph" in classic cars 10-Oct-07 1974 Triumph TR6 ( $18,500.00 ) TRIUMPH GT6 RACE CAR PLUS SPARE CAR FOR PARTS CHEAP! ( $4,800.00 ) See all the Ads If you have any questions or concerns, visit contact us. Regards, The Kijiji Team -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unsubscribe from: This Alert | All Alerts Help About Privacy Policy Terms of Use Contact Kijiji Copyright ) 2005-2007 Kijiji International Limited. macdonaldp at rogers.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 10 12:34:46 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:34:46 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans In-Reply-To: References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6B571C0F-BA86-42AF-B845-9F32CDC553A7@earthlink.net> Yes to both. In fact the event is called The Hot Air Historics/ Redcoats on the Rio Grande and will feature a all british race on Saturday. This will likely be the last time we do an event in conjunction with Balloon Fiesta - we seem to lose workers to the ballooning activities. Come on down Kevin and bring some friends. Greg On Oct 10, 2007, at 11:11 AM, KEVIN LYNCH wrote: > Greg, you guys runnin' @ Sandia? Any balooning activities going on > that weekend or was all that last weekend? > > Kev Lynch > GT6 #6 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > To: FOT > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:17 PM > Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans > > Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans > anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett > last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have > the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at > the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque N.M. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > klynch_6 at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 10 16:30:50 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:30:50 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans and scattershields In-Reply-To: References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <91EF9819-2FB3-4A9C-B6D2-77B4496958CE@earthlink.net> Now that's the Spirit of Vintage!!! Thanks Henry. Will you be around tomorrow or off to Vegas? Greg On Oct 10, 2007, at 10:38 AM, wrote: > Come on by, 1000' is our usual minimum order but I'm sure I've got > a piece of scrap that will work for you................Henry 2227 > Commercial 259-1537 > From: lunkercars at earthlink.net > Subject: TR4 Trans and scattershields > Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:01:08 -0600 > To: dos_gusanos at msn.com; triosan at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net > > Thanks all, > For some reason my trans request took 12+ hrs. to get posted on the > list. I've got one on its way to a bus station in Wisconsin due to > leach Abq. late tomorrow night. $85 plus a bus ticket on E-Bay... > Sometimes you just gotta' love the on-line world. The Plum Pi just > might make another grid. > Regarding your scattershield question Chuck, I'm hoping that Henry > might sell me something less than 1000' of used conveyor belt. I'm > thinking that, combined with a aluminum inner skin should make for > something workable. If I get my hands on some belt, I would be > happy to send some out to anyone who wants some [can we work > something out Henry?]. > Greg Hilyer > TR4 #314 > > P.S. Henry, I did send Rob a e-mail last night - I'll probably hear > from him on my way back from the bus station. > > On Oct 10, 2007, at 9:36 AM, wrote: > > Check with Rob Noyes Smith 821-4369 He's got one, hem ight not > want to part with it........Henry > > > To: fot at autox.team.net > > From: lunkercars at earthlink.net > > Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:17:50 -0600 > > Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans > > > > Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans > > anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in > Hallett > > last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have > > the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. > Looking at > > the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > > TR4 #314 > > Albuquerque N.M. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > dos_gusanos at msn.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Oct 10 18:10:14 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 18:10:14 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans In-Reply-To: References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> <6B571C0F-BA86-42AF-B845-9F32CDC553A7@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Great Kevin, The track has RV hookups and I MIGHT be able to get you a freebie. IF I get the TR going [trans got on the bus this afternoon], I will welcome you to pedal our low power 510 around. SWMS has one day entries for $150 Sat including t-shirt and party - $125 Sunday - I can still get you the pre-registration price of $225 for both. How's that for a sales pitch? Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 P.S. I've seen you loose a hub before... assumed you had them stacked like cord wood. Actually, I think I may have been the first or second car past after you lost the wheel in Pueblo [ was driving Tom Deats' #79 Bugeye] They hadn't thrown the yellow yet and you can bet I was looking for a flying wheel in search of it's car!! Did you find it? How far away? Glad you kept the shiny side up. On Oct 10, 2007, at 4:44 PM, KEVIN LYNCH wrote: > I might, I just got an RV and need a road trip b4 the snow flies. I > lost a hub @ the Enduro so it'll be just an RV run if anything. > Didn't realize how much work this thing takes. Where will the > baloons be in relation to the track there? Kev > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > To: KEVIN LYNCH ; FOT > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:34 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 Trans > > Yes to both. In fact the event is called The Hot Air Historics/ > Redcoats on the Rio Grande and will feature a all british race on > Saturday. This will likely be the last time we do an event in > conjunction with Balloon Fiesta - we seem to lose workers to the > ballooning activities. Come on down Kevin and bring some friends. > Greg > On Oct 10, 2007, at 11:11 AM, KEVIN LYNCH wrote: > >> Greg, you guys runnin' @ Sandia? Any balooning activities going on >> that weekend or was all that last weekend? >> >> Kev Lynch >> GT6 #6 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> To: FOT >> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:17 PM >> Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans >> >> Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans >> anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett >> last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have >> the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at >> the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> klynch_6 at msn.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tony at tonydrews.com Wed Oct 10 18:57:07 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:57:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans In-Reply-To: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20071011005733.D79FA18763F@autox.team.net> When you replace the pressure plate, get the diaphragm type (Luk?), not the finger type one that came on the TR-3's. The finger type ones come apart, the diaphragm type from the later TR-4's don't. - Tony Drews At 08:17 PM 10/9/2007, Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer wrote: >Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans >anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett >last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have >the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at >the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. >Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >TR4 #314 >Albuquerque N.M. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >tony at tonydrews.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Wed Oct 10 20:40:04 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:40:04 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Trans and scattershields In-Reply-To: References: <269F715C-3D1B-44A9-A60A-C100BC1D33B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <470D8D04.5080203@bradakis.com> > For some reason my trans request took 12+ hrs. to get posted on the list. I try to keep things flowing along smoothly, but it doesn't always work. Some days you're the dog, some days you're the hydrant. There was a bit of a service interuption, should be back to normal. For now, at least - I'm fairly certain that "Qwest" is a four letter word. mjb. From spreiss at verizon.net Wed Oct 10 06:04:44 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 23:04:44 +1100 Subject: [Fot] fot emails Message-ID: <001501c80b35$bf938ef0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Hi I am a new fot member and glad to have access to the of depth knowledge offered by this group. I am wondering however if there is a way to set up my email preferences with fot so that I do not receive a copy of all emails sent between the membership, but rather to allow me to log on periodically and "tune in" to the discussions that have bearing on my interests and needs. Thanks for helping me make good use of this valuable resource. Steve Preiss From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 11 10:19:31 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:19:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] fot emails Message-ID: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com> Steve, there is digest version that you can subscribe to. from the Triumphest. Joe A >Hi >I am a new fot member and glad to have access to the of depth knowledge >offered by this group. I am wondering however if there is a way to set up my >email preferences with fot so that I do not receive a copy of all emails sent >between the membership, but rather to allow me to log on periodically and >"tune in" to the discussions that have bearing on my interests and needs. >Thanks for helping me make good use of this valuable resource. >Steve Preiss >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >n197tr4 at cs.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Thu Oct 11 11:14:12 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:14:12 -0600 Subject: [Fot] fot emails In-Reply-To: <001501c80b35$bf938ef0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> References: <001501c80b35$bf938ef0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: <470E59E4.2090404@bradakis.com> There are a couple of options. You can go to the info page, [ http://www.team.net/mailman/lisinfo ] log in and change your settings. The first thing you may want to try is setting your subscription to digest mode. This collects the individual emails into one single message sent out about once a day. It may suit your needs. Another option is to set your address to 'no mail' which means that address will still be on the list as a member, so you can send mail to the list. When you want to read what's been going on, go to the archive and browse around, http://www.team.net/archive You can read and respond to messages as desired. One other thing that I'll probably work on this fall is linking email lists to the discussion forums at http://www.team.net/the-local I tried it with triumphs and british-cars a while back, I don't know if anyone really bothered to use it. I never got it working quite right. Messages sent to the triumphs list showed up as forum postings. Postings on the british-cars forum were sent to the british-cars email list. I never took the time to figure out how to get them both working with two way traffic. Stay tuned, I may up the priority of that project. Actually I need to really go through ALL the Team.Net web pages to reorginise, update and improve. Yep, I'll get to it RealSoonNow, but first I have to get to work and start putting an MGC motor together! mjb. From britcars at bellsouth.net Thu Oct 11 11:22:49 2007 From: britcars at bellsouth.net (barry rosenberg) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:22:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] vandervell bearings on ebay Message-ID: Since I sold my TR4 race car and am quitting British car repair, I am selling off most of my accumulated stuff. I have a few sets of Triumph NOS Vandervell bearings I listed on ebay along with some of the NOS Lucas I have. Look up NOS Vandervell. I will be listing more stuff every so often. Thanks. From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Thu Oct 11 13:37:05 2007 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:37:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? References: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com> Message-ID: <001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott> http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx Is this for real ? From spitfiresuz at 141.com Thu Oct 11 13:56:51 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:56:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: <380-2200710411195651347@M2W004.mail2web.com> What I find amusing is they used the Triumph motorcycle logo for the rear plate in their "possible concept" rendition. I'll believe it when I see it! Neat article, though. :) Susan :) Original Message: ----------------- From: Don Elliott 58tr3a at videotron.ca Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:37:05 -0400 To: Fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx Is this for real ? spitfiresuz at 141.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web From S.Janzen at comcast.net Thu Oct 11 13:59:50 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:59:50 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? References: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com> <001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott> Message-ID: <006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Looks too much like a Saturn or Pontiac from the rear. BMW pulled it off with the iconic Mini shape and proportions but it may be harder to do with Triumph, unless they focus on the TR6 styling which is probably the best known here. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:37 PM Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? > http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx > > Is this for real ? > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Oct 11 14:19:54 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In-Reply-To: <006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com> <001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott> <006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, Scott Janzen wrote: > Looks too much like a Saturn or Pontiac from the rear. BMW pulled it off > with the iconic Mini shape and proportions but it may be harder to do with > Triumph, unless they focus on the TR6 styling which is probably the best > known here. Note that the GM "Kappa" platform is sold in Europe as the Opel GT (or is to be sold soon) but taking pix of those cars and "doctoring" them should be dead nuts simple. Of course GM is not BMW, so the pictures are probably not a good benchmark. I find the presence of persistent rumor of the rebirth of Triumph to be just fascinating. Imagine using a brand that's been dead for 25 years and generating "buzz" - that's a marketer's dream! Oh well. c ya, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From billb at bnj.com Thu Oct 11 14:21:33 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:21:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In-Reply-To: <380-2200710411195651347@M2W004.mail2web.com> References: <380-2200710411195651347@M2W004.mail2web.com> Message-ID: I caught that too. Odd that they considered the Triumph motorcycles to be an impediment to the brand. It's hardly that. On Oct 11, 2007, at 12:56 PM, spitfiresuz at 141.com wrote: > What I find amusing is they used the Triumph motorcycle logo for > the rear > plate in their "possible concept" rendition. > > I'll believe it when I see it! > > Neat article, though. :) > > Susan :) > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Don Elliott 58tr3a at videotron.ca > Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:37:05 -0400 > To: Fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? > > > http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx > > Is this for real ? > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Thu Oct 11 14:23:15 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:23:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In-Reply-To: <006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com> <001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott> <006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: Looks almost exactly like a Solstice, thought that's not exactly a bad thing. I'd be a lot more interested in a retro Triumph than a retro mini, but then we represent a tiny market, while the mini went after a pretty big one. On Oct 11, 2007, at 12:59 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: > Looks too much like a Saturn or Pontiac from the rear. BMW pulled > it off > with the iconic Mini shape and proportions but it may be harder to > do with > Triumph, unless they focus on the TR6 styling which is probably the > best > known here. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:37 PM > Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? > > >> http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx >> >> Is this for real ? >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> s.janzen at comcast.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From sbracing at sbcglobal.net Thu Oct 11 14:41:04 2007 From: sbracing at sbcglobal.net (Steven Benford Jr) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In-Reply-To: <001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott> Message-ID: <443314.28890.qm@web81008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The calendar says October 11 and not April 1st. Would be nice. I noticed the Triumph motorcycle logo as well. Don't you think the BMW marketing folks would have noticed that? Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> wrote: http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx Is this for real ? sbracing at sbcglobal.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tlizzard at msn.com Thu Oct 11 15:45:23 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:45:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? References: <66CAA2F9.5B7CF726.00159EE9@cs.com><001801c80c3e$1c214ff0$08c85246@Elliott><006601c80c41$4b051150$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: Looks like British pulp "news" fiction to me. Not that I'm against the idea mind you, but it will be difficult for anyone to unseat the Miata in the North American market. The Miata is just too good a car. Superb dynamics, coupled with Japanese reliability and a huge dealer network. Competeing directly against the little Mazda roadster will spell disaster. The only way to bring in a new sportscar would be to either go upmarket or downmarket from the Miata. I cannot see BMW going up in price as it will then compete directly against it's own Z roadster, and BMW has no clue how to build an inexpensive, entry level car so that is out as well. Another issue is that the majority of the market are not us, so to speak. When you say "Triumph sportscar" to someone 90% of the time the response is, "Oh a buddy of mine had a TR7, it was a piece of junk." I've had people even call my TR3 a TR7 and ask how I keep it running. There is a large negative image problem that would have to be overcome somehow for the car to sell in any kind of numbers. And then there is the spectre of a Triumph with a German engine. That makes my skin crawl. But I'm a crumudgon about that sort of thing. After all, you wouldn't put a DB 605 in a Supermarine Spitfire now would you. Terry Stetler. From tlizzard at msn.com Thu Oct 11 15:50:21 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:50:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] fot emails References: <001501c80b35$bf938ef0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> <470E59E4.2090404@bradakis.com> Message-ID: A forum would be very interesting. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark J. Bradakis To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] fot emails There are a couple of options. You can go to the info page, [ http://www.team.net/mailman/lisinfo ] log in and change your settings. The first thing you may want to try is setting your subscription to digest mode. This collects the individual emails into one single message sent out about once a day. It may suit your needs. Another option is to set your address to 'no mail' which means that address will still be on the list as a member, so you can send mail to the list. When you want to read what's been going on, go to the archive and browse around, http://www.team.net/archive You can read and respond to messages as desired. One other thing that I'll probably work on this fall is linking email lists to the discussion forums at http://www.team.net/the-local I tried it with triumphs and british-cars a while back, I don't know if anyone really bothered to use it. I never got it working quite right. Messages sent to the triumphs list showed up as forum postings. Postings on the british-cars forum were sent to the british-cars email list. I never took the time to figure out how to get them both working with two way traffic. Stay tuned, I may up the priority of that project. Actually I need to really go through ALL the Team.Net web pages to reorginise, update and improve. Yep, I'll get to it RealSoonNow, but first I have to get to work and start putting an MGC motor together! mjb. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 11 19:37:53 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:37:53 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710100829id1b7ffy93462ec9e45b8b8e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006501c80c70$82140640$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> I am collecting data on a variety of ballistic materials, Kevlar being one of them. I intend to fabricate my own scatter shield by lining the tunnel. I have some inquiries out now requesting ballistic properties and I have expalined what I intend to do. This is one company I have inquired to. http://www.armorco.com/shop/category.asp?catid=3 You really don't need that much material since all you need is enough to cover the bell housing with sufficient thickness. I have never heard of a catastophic transmission explosion in a Triumph but I have seen 1/2 of a flywheel fired through the hood of an MG like it was shot out of a cannon. The damage done to the footwells and firewall was absolutely hair raising. The only reason the driver retained his right foot was the remaining half hit the steering shaft before it took out the gas pedal, brake lines, fuel line, misc electrical and then penetrated the passenger side foot well and eventually seperated the engine from the transmission completely. I will pass on all the info I get. Jim Gray RMVR # 102 TR4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Chuck Arnold Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 9:30 AM To: Greg Lunker Hilyer Cc: FOT Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one for a TR5/6 On 10/9/07, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: > > Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans anywhere > near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett last > weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have the > car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at the > carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. Greg > "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 > Albuquerque N.M. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Thu Oct 11 20:06:15 2007 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:06:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? References: <006501c80c70$82140640$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Message-ID: <000801c80c74$78df7830$5e062218@alex> Thanks for the effort James I am interested in replacing my current heavy 1/8" stainless steal shroud. rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Gray" To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Scatershield source? >I am collecting data on a variety of ballistic materials, Kevlar being > one of them. I intend to > fabricate my own scatter shield by lining the tunnel. I have some > inquiries out now requesting ballistic > properties and I have expalined what I intend to do. This is one company > I have inquired to. > http://www.armorco.com/shop/category.asp?catid=3 > You really don't need that much material since all you need is enough to > cover the bell housing > with sufficient thickness. > I have never heard of a catastophic transmission explosion in a Triumph > but I have seen 1/2 of > a flywheel fired through the hood of an MG like it was shot out of a > cannon. > The damage done to the footwells and firewall was absolutely hair > raising. > The only reason the driver retained his right foot was the remaining > half hit the steering shaft before > it took out the gas pedal, brake lines, fuel line, misc electrical and > then penetrated the passenger side > foot well and eventually seperated the engine from the transmission > completely. > I will pass on all the info I get. > Jim Gray > RMVR # 102 > TR4 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of Chuck Arnold > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 9:30 AM > To: Greg Lunker Hilyer > Cc: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? > > > On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one for a > TR5/6 > > On 10/9/07, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: >> >> Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans anywhere > >> near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett last >> weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have the >> car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at the >> carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. Greg >> "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> triosan at gmail.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > > > -- > Chuck Arnold > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > 19to1tr6 at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Herald948 at aol.com Thu Oct 11 20:22:17 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:22:17 EDT Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/11/2007 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tlizzard at msn.com writes: And then there is the spectre of a Triumph with a German engine. That makes my skin crawl. But I'm a crumudgon about that sort of thing. ==AM== Don't forget that Triumph was started by Nuremberg-born Siegfried Bettmann. ;-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From Herald948 at aol.com Thu Oct 11 20:24:14 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:24:14 EDT Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/11/2007 4:22:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, billb at bnj.com writes: I caught that too. Odd that they considered the Triumph motorcycles to be an impediment to the brand. It's hardly that. ==AM== Actually, I think the name is fairly well respected for motorcycles as well as cars and has been for some time (in fact, it was a well-respected name even in the mid-1930s, when the company, having already sold off the bicycle division, sold off the motorcycle division)! --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From hottr6 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 11 20:34:12 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:34:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? Message-ID: >On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one for a >TR5/6 Uncle Jack used to sell them. I have one in Rags. Fits great with minimal impact on room for the right foot. Shane Ingate, enjoying the stars in New Mexico. _________________________________________________________________ Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. Its free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM From mlcooknj at msn.com Thu Oct 11 20:51:02 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:51:02 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: And then there's the German car with a Triumph engine that is fetching incredible sums at auction - and it probably holds water better than the idea of a BMW-built Triumph. Mike Cook ----- Original Message ----- From: Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:22 PM To: tlizzard at msn.com; Fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In a message dated 10/11/2007 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tlizzard at msn.com writes: And then there is the spectre of a Triumph with a German engine. That makes my skin crawl. But I'm a crumudgon about that sort of thing. ==AM== Don't forget that Triumph was started by Nuremberg-born Siegfried Bettmann. ;-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com mlcooknj at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mlcooknj at msn.com Thu Oct 11 21:02:04 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:02:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: Hi All- I think I have said this before but .... There is no commercial sense in BMW trying to launch a new Triumph sports car. If it is to be like the originals, "affordable," the potential sales volume could not possibly justify the development cost. The potential customers for such a car have probably never heard of Triumph or MG. BMW already has a range of sports models. So, unless the announcement comes from them, on BMW letterhead, anything you see on the internet or in print is a pipe dream. Mike Cook ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 4:23 PM To: Scott Janzen Cc: Fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Looks almost exactly like a Solstice, thought that's not exactly a bad thing. I'd be a lot more interested in a retro Triumph than a retro mini, but then we represent a tiny market, while the mini went after a pretty big one. On Oct 11, 2007, at 12:59 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: > Looks too much like a Saturn or Pontiac from the rear. BMW pulled > it off > with the iconic Mini shape and proportions but it may be harder to > do with > Triumph, unless they focus on the TR6 styling which is probably the > best > known here. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:37 PM > Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? > > >> http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx >> >> Is this for real ? >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> s.janzen at comcast.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot mlcooknj at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitfiresuz at 141.com Thu Oct 11 20:56:40 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:56:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <470EE268.4070203@141.com> GOOD one, Mike! :D Ours has probably valued upward 150-200% since we got it in 2001. ;) Susan :) michael cook wrote: > And then there's the German car with a Triumph engine that is fetching > incredible sums at auction - and it probably holds water better than the idea > of a BMW-built Triumph. > > Mike Cook > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Herald948 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:22 PM > To: tlizzard at msn.com; Fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? > > In a message dated 10/11/2007 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > tlizzard at msn.com writes: > > And then there is the spectre of a Triumph with a German engine. That makes > my skin crawl. But I'm a crumudgon about that sort of thing. > > > ==AM== > Don't forget that Triumph was started by Nuremberg-born Siegfried Bettmann. > ;-) > > --Andy Mace > > *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? > *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph > Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > > Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald > Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) > > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > mlcooknj at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitfiresuz at 141.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From mlcooknj at msn.com Thu Oct 11 21:05:07 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:05:07 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: Susan- Smart and incisive analysis! You can judge the value of the article by the fact that the people don't even know the difference in the logos. Ain't gonna happen. I'll even bet $$$ on it. (anybody got two bits?) Mike Cook ----- Original Message ----- From: spitfiresuz at 141.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:57 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? What I find amusing is they used the Triumph motorcycle logo for the rear plate in their "possible concept" rendition. I'll believe it when I see it! Neat article, though. :) Susan :) Original Message: ----------------- From: Don Elliott 58tr3a at videotron.ca Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:37:05 -0400 To: Fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? http://netcars.co.uk/articles/Triumph-210892-2.aspx Is this for real ? spitfiresuz at 141.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web mlcooknj at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fasttrs at mindspring.com Thu Oct 11 21:00:35 2007 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:00:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Kastner Cup Challenge-Car Eligibility and Awarding of Cup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000b01c80c7c$0f906b20$6501a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> I must apologize for bringing this controversy back into discussion. Thanks for all the kind words. I do value the friendships and the memories that I have gained by being a part of this group. I have put too much money and hard work into my car to turn around and spend more money on it for just one race. Mike -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:59 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Kastner Cup Challenge-Car Eligibility and Awarding of Cup FoT, Every time we have a major event for the FoT, there is some sort of controversy. That's Ok, to a point. SVRA has always worked well with us on car eligibility to that end that seems to make the sense....at least to me. But we cant please everyone. (ipso facto) There is a method in place for the awarding of the Kastner Cup. For the time being it will remain in place. Perhaps we could bring the current list wide controversies to a close.....in the best interests of FoT. This is likely to be the best FoT Gathering that we have ever had. I would rather build on that premise than hash over issues that are likely have no good solutions. If anyone has any further heartburn, on this subject, please contact me directly and privately. I'll try my best to deal with it. From Group44TR7 at aol.com Thu Oct 11 21:01:43 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:01:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted Message-ID: When was it that SCCA first started requiring that the production class roll cage design include structural support in front of the driver? I am asking that question because I am under the impression that it was not required by the GRC in 1972. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From gasket.works at verizon.net Thu Oct 11 22:34:43 2007 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (MDunst/Gasket Works) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:34:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? References: Message-ID: <002201c80c89$366b1760$1502a8c0@Belkin> I once had several of these made out of balistic material with SFI rating. It was made by Diest perhaps you can contact them directly and ask for the TR4 scattershield. I'm sure they still have the pattern. It wraps completely around the gearbox with heavy nyon straps. It has steel tabs up front that bolt to the bell housing. M. Dunst www.headgasket.com Gasket Works USA, LLC 626.358.1616 Voice 626.628.3777 Fax GMT -8 Pacific ----- Original Message ----- From: Shane Ingate To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Scatershield source? > >On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one for a > >TR5/6 > > Uncle Jack used to sell them. I have one in Rags. Fits great with minimal > impact on room for the right foot. > > Shane Ingate, enjoying the stars in New Mexico. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. > Its free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gasket.works at gte.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Fri Oct 12 00:04:27 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:04:27 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Play in steering column Message-ID: <000001c80c95$bf282a00$171a694c@computer> One of my TR6s was used to SCCA club race in the eighties and nineties. >From all that pulling on the steering wheel, it has developed about < to = inch of in and out play (felt as movement at the steering wheel) where the column goes into the steering box. Not having been into the rack and pinion I'm not sure what is happening so I don't know if it is fixable, needs to be replaced, or if it can go quite a while before being replaced. The car is not on the street; I only autocross and race it. Thanks, Jim Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From rocky at spitfire4.com Fri Oct 12 03:12:01 2007 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:12:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted References: Message-ID: <001c01c80caf$f94a10d0$6601a8c0@S1099895562> I think it was probably 2000. That year I went to get an annual and flunked and the front support was one of the reasons, so the tech inspector was nice enough to write nothing in my logbook. Since I was only planning to do a couple of regionals after not racing in '99, I bagged that and went and fixed the car instead. I have annuals in the book in 1999 and 2001 on adjacent pages -- until this year 2000 is the only gap since 1995. In '72 only the roll bar was required by GCR. My car's logbooks go back to then, when logbooks were first required, and the pictures in that book show only a rollbar. Pictures in my second logbook, issued in '79, also show only the bar. I don't think I put in the cage until the early '80s, and even then it was not yet required. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted > When was it that SCCA first started requiring that the production class > roll > cage design include structural support in front of the driver? I am > asking > that question because I am under the impression that it was not required > by > the GRC in 1972. From chris at tr4-racing.de Fri Oct 12 04:30:25 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (chris at tr4-racing.de) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:30:25 +0000 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) Message-ID: <95016055-1192185033-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1268214521-@bxe014.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Hi Mike, Over here we ignore the problem if cars are more modified than others. If the UK drivers enter a race of the Triumph-Competition, we know that the come with very fast cars an tough drivers. The will probably will win all TC races but that don't bother us to much. It does bother the people who are keen on overall wins.....but who cares?! If you invite UK drivers.....be prepared that they might take you the win away. But you learn how fast this lump Triumph stuff can go. Always a pleasure to meet those English teams. Cheers Chris __________________ I must apologize for bringing this controversy back into discussion. Thanks for all the kind words. I do value the friendships and the memories that I have gained by being a part of this group. I have put too much money and hard work into my car to turn around and spend more money on it for just one race. Mike Gesendet mit BlackBerry von Vodafone From Group44TR7 at aol.com Fri Oct 12 05:45:46 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 07:45:46 EDT Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronologically Gifted Message-ID: Joe, Rocky, .. All of our ITA and ITS cars had full cages back in the late 1980s, so I can't imagine that the production classes (other than perhaps showroom stock) could have been running without full cages before 2000. I am also wondering whether the full cage requirements were imposed at different times on open cars vs coupes, sedans. Cary In a message dated 10/12/2007 2:12:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rocky at spitfire4.com writes: I think it was probably 2000. That year I went to get an annual and flunked and the front support was one of the reasons, so the tech inspector was nice enough to write nothing in my logbook. Since I was only planning to do a couple of regionals after not racing in '99, I bagged that and went and fixed the car instead. I have annuals in the book in 1999 and 2001 on adjacent pages -- until this year 2000 is the only gap since 1995. In '72 only the roll bar was required by GCR. My car's logbooks go back to then, when logbooks were first required, and the pictures in that book show only a rollbar. Pictures in my second logbook, issued in '79, also show only the bar. I don't think I put in the cage until the early '80s, and even then it was not yet required. --Rocky Entriken ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From DSPGTi at aol.com Fri Oct 12 06:13:36 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 08:13:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted Message-ID: I recently purchased the SCCA Vintage and Historic Rule book. Included in the book are reprints of several years of the GCR the last being 1972. Under 1972 general specifications it is stated that all cars must have a "roll bar" and includes a reference to specifications in Appendix Z. There is no Appendix Z included in the reprint so I will contact SCCA to see if I can get a copy. If there are any other specific details anyone is interested in, please feel free to contact me. Dave Y. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From Herald948 at aol.com Fri Oct 12 07:06:07 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:06:07 EDT Subject: [Fot] New Triumph by BMW ? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/11/2007 11:01:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mlcooknj at msn.com writes: I think I have said this before but .... There is no commercial sense in BMW trying to launch a new Triumph sports car. If it is to be like the originals, "affordable," the potential sales volume could not possibly justify the development cost. ==AM== Probably true. But then, what price level is considered "affordable" nowadays? ==AM== The potential customers for such a car have probably never heard of Triumph or MG. ==AM== Also probably true. On the other hand, BMW deserves credit for brilliant marketing in the US, where -- realistically speaking -- more people likely remembered the Hudson Jet or the Henry J than remembered the original Mini. ;-) At the same time, Mazda did an equally brilliant job of reviving the "affordable sports car," in part by capitalizing on the memories of TRs and Spitfires and MGBs, etc. But that was nearly 20 years ago, when memories of such cars were fresher. ==AM== BMW already has a range of sports models. ==AM== Yes, but I'm not sure any of them could be considered "affordable" in the same way that Triumphs were. If BMW were to bring back Triumph, I imagine it will be much more upmarket, the way the MINI is at least in the US. (Sadly, we don't get any of the more basic levels of MINI here. Too bad, since that means a brand-new MINI likely will never be in my price range.) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From DSPGTi at aol.com Fri Oct 12 07:16:06 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:16:06 EDT Subject: [Fot] Kastner Cup Challenge-Car Eligibility and Awarding of Cup Message-ID: In the past, SVRA has been very liberal with allowing exceptions for the featured marque cars. Cars modified beyond vintage rules would fall into group 8. As far as the Kastner Cup race goes, it doesn't matter the level of mods. We will have everything from Prewar up. We can't all expect to be competitive under that kind of grouping. Let's just do it for the show. Dave Y. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From kaskas at cox.net Fri Oct 12 09:29:50 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 08:29:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted References: Message-ID: <004101c80ce4$bb01e700$5717c548@RW> All the cars I prepared in 1972 had roll over bars and NONE had a driver dash support for it was not required by the GCR of the SCCA. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 8:01 PM Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted > When was it that SCCA first started requiring that the production class > roll > cage design include structural support in front of the driver? I am > asking > that question because I am under the impression that it was not required > by > the GRC in 1972. > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Fri Oct 12 10:59:08 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (steve) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:59:08 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [Fot] TR3 / 4 cam needed Message-ID: <13479731.1192208348871.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Does anyone out there have a used stock cam for a TR3 / 4 for sale? Ted S is going to grind it for my race car. ~Steve From rocky at spitfire4.com Fri Oct 12 13:52:42 2007 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:52:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronologically Gifted References: Message-ID: <002401c80d09$74a3ae90$6701a8c0@S1099895562> "Full Cage" in the '80s meant a four-post structure roughly approximating the A and B pillars of a passenger sedan. Usually they were, at minimum, a 6-point structure including a couple of rearward (usually) supports. The newer portion forward of the "A Pillars" made mine an 8-point structure, and was not described to me as cage support so much as leg protection. The knee bar was, earlier on, a recommendation. It apparently became a requirement along with the forward supports. The evolution of mine kinda tells the tale. It began in 1971 as an Autopower competition rollbar -- a 4-point structure with two feet on the floor behind the seat and two on the back inner fenders. Then in the '80s I added a Kirk cage kit which made it a 6-point when two more feet were added in the front part of the driver compartment. The cage kit was two bent bars extending forward from the top of the rollbar, a crossbar mounted high in front, and a double door bar on the driver side. There was no bar in the kit for the passenger-side door so we put one in from straight bar stock. When I added the forward extensions and knee bar -- Charlie Clark of KC Raceware in Kansas City did that for me -- we also added a second door bar on the passenger side which I believe at that time had become required. While my driver-side door bars are fairly close together and joined with vertical links, the passenger-side door bars are not joined in that manner and are farther apart. At that time too, Charlie told me my whole cage was over-spec -- bigger bars than the rules required for my size car -- so he made the forward extensions out of the smaller bars. The bigger bars was simply what Autopower and Kirk provided, and more recently I'm glad they are over-spec -- my rationale there is that the specs are predicated on me getting on my head or a similar-size car (Sprites, etc.) trying to share my space, but now I find myself out there with GT1 Camaros and the like going by me 60 mph faster than I can do so having the over-spec cage makes me feel a little better about that. Most recently we added a crossbar between the uprights of the original Autopower rollbar. Its sole purpose is to be an anchor for the shoulder harness straps so I'm no longer bolting them (at too much angle) to the floor. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: Group44TR7 at aol.com To: rocky at spitfire4.com ; fot at autox.team.net Cc: JWoesvra at aol.com Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronologically Gifted Joe, Rocky, .. All of our ITA and ITS cars had full cages back in the late 1980s, so I can't imagine that the production classes (other than perhaps showroom stock) could have been running without full cages before 2000. I am also wondering whether the full cage requirements were imposed at different times on open cars vs coupes, sedans. Cary In a message dated 10/12/2007 2:12:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rocky at spitfire4.com writes: I think it was probably 2000. That year I went to get an annual and flunked and the front support was one of the reasons, so the tech inspector was nice enough to write nothing in my logbook. Since I was only planning to do a couple of regionals after not racing in '99, I bagged that and went and fixed the car instead. I have annuals in the book in 1999 and 2001 on adjacent pages -- until this year 2000 is the only gap since 1995. In '72 only the roll bar was required by GCR. My car's logbooks go back to then, when logbooks were first required, and the pictures in that book show only a rollbar. Pictures in my second logbook, issued in '79, also show only the bar. I don't think I put in the cage until the early '80s, and even then it was not yet required. --Rocky Entriken ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Fri Oct 12 16:20:45 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:20:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SCCA Roll Cage Trivia - For The Chronolically Gifted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <470FF33D.8050909@cyberspeedway.net> Are you talking about the foot intrusion protection forward of the front hoop? That is relatively new. We have a regional this weekend and I will try to sort it out. I will also see if we can determine exactly when a full cage was required on newly constructed cars. For a long time the roll hoop cars were grandfathered in after newly constructed cars were required to have hoops. Greg Lund Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > When was it that SCCA first started requiring that the production class roll > cage design include structural support in front of the driver? I am asking > that question because I am under the impression that it was not required by > the GRC in 1972. > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gtlund at cyberspeedway.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Fri Oct 12 20:14:03 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:14:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Looking for a TR6 hardtop in N. California Message-ID: <000001c80d3e$ba880930$171a694c@computer> Does anyone know of a TR6 hardtop for sale in Northern California? It can be rough (even dents and no headliner) since I only need it in order to be eligible to rallycross. Jim Hearn Sacramento Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Fri Oct 12 22:20:39 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:20:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] cage trivia Message-ID: <47104797.3030309@cyberspeedway.net> After combing through available SCCA GCRs and PCSs we have come up with the following: The oldest GCR we have on hand is 1987. This refers to production cars only 1.Forward bracing of the front hoop is required in '87 but we don't know when it was first required. The showroom stock cages were 6 point without forward braces but we can't tell or remember if production/GT cages were ever allowed without forward braces. 2.Cars registered after 1/1/79 are required to have roll cages. This means that cars which were built and logbooked before 1/1/79 were still able to race in '87 with only a roll hoop. I don't have a date when the roll cage was required for all. FYI I noticed that cells were first required for newly constructed cars in 1983. I don't know when they became mandatory for all. Greg Lund From koblinger at verizon.net Fri Oct 12 22:58:54 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:58:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] cage trivia In-Reply-To: <47104797.3030309@cyberspeedway.net> References: <47104797.3030309@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <4710508E.8040001@verizon.net> Just a data point. Below is a link to a photo of Elliot Forbes-Robinson in a GP Spit from Nov. 1980. If I remember right, the event was a 4 hour Regional Enduro. You can see that the cage has forward braces from the vertical legs of the hoop. http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8957/efrspitfirepc9.jpg Cheers, Kurt O. greg wrote: >After combing through available SCCA GCRs and PCSs we have come up with >the following: >The oldest GCR we have on hand is 1987. > >This refers to production cars only > 1.Forward bracing of the front hoop is required in '87 but we don't >know when it was first required. The showroom stock cages were 6 point >without forward braces but we can't tell or remember if production/GT >cages were ever allowed without forward braces. > > 2.Cars registered after 1/1/79 are required to have roll cages. This >means that cars which were built and logbooked before 1/1/79 were still >able to race in '87 with only a roll hoop. I don't have a date when the >roll cage was required for all. > >FYI I noticed that cells were first required for newly constructed cars >in 1983. I don't know when they became mandatory for all. > >Greg Lund >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rikrock at aol.com Sat Oct 13 10:50:46 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 12:50:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Who Knows This Spit Racecar? Message-ID: <8C9DBD055C6F22B-85C-8B25@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> Amici, A gentleman by the name of Lapham is selling a vintage-legal Spitfire racer somewhere in Indiana.? A friend of mine ?is considering buying the car.? The owner says it has been raced at Gingerman, Blackhawk, Mid-Ohio, and I forget where else.? If you know the car, could you please let me know what you know? Or, if anyone knows of a legal (or close to legal) Triumph of?ANY model for sale, could you please point me to it?? My buddy lives in southeastern PA, but he'll go far for a good deal ! Thanks! Rich Rock Pottstown, PA ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From igofaster at charter.net Sat Oct 13 12:38:48 2007 From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:38:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] motor oil query Message-ID: <20071013143848.ODKBZ.107222.root@fepweb14> Heys guys,,, newbie to the forum...STILL appreciative of the non-stop information. My GT6 is equipped with Kendall 50W motor oil at the time. We've run three weekends now and wonder if we can run a synthetic now. I haven't been able to locate the Kendall in Texas. My parts guy is recommending Amsoil synthetic. What is the consensus among our group.... Bullet Bob recommended a BRAD PENN motor oil of which I'm having difficulties locating as well... am I just looking in the wrong places? Kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead 33 GT6+ From fpspitfire at insightbb.com Sat Oct 13 12:44:52 2007 From: fpspitfire at insightbb.com (fpspitfire at insightbb.com) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:44:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] motor oil query In-Reply-To: <20071013143848.ODKBZ.107222.root@fepweb14> References: <20071013143848.ODKBZ.107222.root@fepweb14> Message-ID: I'm a big fan of the RedLine products. I run 40 wt. in my car. aaron #8 HP Spitfire 1500 Southern Illinois Region SCCA ----- Original Message ----- From: igofaster at charter.net Date: Saturday, October 13, 2007 13:39 Subject: [Fot] motor oil query To: fot at autox.team.net > Heys guys,,, newbie to the forum...STILL appreciative of the non- > stop information. My GT6 is equipped with Kendall 50W motor oil > at the time. We've run three weekends now and wonder if we can > run a synthetic now. I haven't been able to locate the Kendall > in Texas. My parts guy is recommending Amsoil synthetic. What is > the consensus among our group.... Bullet Bob recommended a > BRAD PENN motor oil of which I'm having difficulties locating as > well... am I just looking in the wrong places? > > Kindest regards, > Bobby Whitehead > 33 GT6+ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > fpspitfire at insightbb.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chris at tr4-racing.de Sat Oct 13 13:14:10 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: <004601c80dcd$3fe68d70$6402a8c0@HOME> It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing car on its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some bucks more to spend... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w From billb at bnj.com Sat Oct 13 15:53:50 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:53:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <004601c80dcd$3fe68d70$6402a8c0@HOME> References: <004601c80dcd$3fe68d70$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <5B2AF419-4D62-4416-AAF6-A64CE71D9564@bnj.com> I wonder if it's a real one--I looked at the replica 917 that's been for sale on ebay--It was at Road America as I recall. Very nicely done, RSR motor, lot's a trick stuff. It would be fun to drive it on the road, and the price was reasonable. I nearly bought it, but sanity overtook me. Besides, what I really want is a Lola T70 for the street. On Oct 13, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive > racing car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chris at tr4-racing.de Sat Oct 13 16:20:56 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 00:20:56 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: <35F0134E183D4500A765795E49D7D954@Notebook> There are several 917 in road legal versions. The most famous one was the "Berg Spider" which was used for hill climbs. Here some other ones: http://www.nine-one-seven.de/registry_917021.htm http://www.i-t-d.net/Porsche_917/917-Strasse/917-strasse.php The car on that video is from here.....and a still used race car: http://www.ottocars.net/ The owner webside... Cheers Chris I wonder if it's a real one--I looked at the replica 917 that's been for sale on ebay--It was at Road America as I recall. Very nicely done, RSR motor, lot's a trick stuff. It would be fun to drive it on the road, and the price was reasonable. I nearly bought it, but sanity overtook me. Besides, what I really want is a Lola T70 for the street. On Oct 13, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive > racing car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tony at tonydrews.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 13 18:56:33 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 17:56:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <35F0134E183D4500A765795E49D7D954@Notebook> Message-ID: <122711.19574.qm@web57603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Now that's just plain showing off! Lucky (deleted)! Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: There are several 917 in road legal versions. The most famous one was the "Berg Spider" which was used for hill climbs. Here some other ones: http://www.nine-one-seven.de/registry_917021.htm http://www.i-t-d.net/Porsche_917/917-Strasse/917-strasse.php The car on that video is from here.....and a still used race car: http://www.ottocars.net/ The owner webside... Cheers Chris I wonder if it's a real one--I looked at the replica 917 that's been for sale on ebay--It was at Road America as I recall. Very nicely done, RSR motor, lot's a trick stuff. It would be fun to drive it on the road, and the price was reasonable. I nearly bought it, but sanity overtook me. Besides, what I really want is a Lola T70 for the street. On Oct 13, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive > racing car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot tony at tonydrews.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. From rocky at spitfire4.com Sat Oct 13 21:08:24 2007 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:08:24 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Who Knows This Spit Racecar? References: <8C9DBD055C6F22B-85C-8B25@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000001c80e12$c2e978a0$6701a8c0@S1099895562> He might call my friend (and engine-builder) Duane Bailey of West Michigan Imports, who's a Spitfire racer and GingerMan is his nearest track. He'd probably know about any Spits racing in GLDiv. 616-878-5774 or dbailey_wmi at yahoo.com --Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 11:50 AM Subject: [Fot] Who Knows This Spit Racecar? > Amici, > > A gentleman by the name of Lapham is selling a vintage-legal Spitfire > racer somewhere in Indiana.? A friend of mine ?is considering buying the > car.? The owner says it has been raced at Gingerman, Blackhawk, Mid-Ohio, > and I forget where else.? If you know the car, could you please let me > know what you know? > > Or, if anyone knows of a legal (or close to legal) Triumph of?ANY model > for sale, could you please point me to it?? My buddy lives in southeastern > PA, but he'll go far for a good deal ! > > Thanks! > > Rich Rock > Pottstown, PA > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rocky at spitfire4.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Sat Oct 13 23:35:28 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:35:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Play in steering column In-Reply-To: <5C33EB5352EE814AB72F655EA92399A20EF7FC8D@exc2-na-chq.bfusa.com> Message-ID: <000101c80e24$074a4ae0$171a694c@computer> Somehow my email read incorrectly on the amount of play in my steering column and it ended up looking like about an inch of play. I put some fractions in but they didn't stay that way in the email. The movement was about .090 of an inch but still it was bothersome especially if it was in the steering box. I appreciate all the posts on this and Jack it did happen to be what you had experienced. It was the pinch on the spline down by the steering box. Nice to have an easy fix. Thanks again guys. Jim Hearn Sacramento Two '74 TR6s -----Original Message----- From: Coffey, Jack [mailto:CoffeyJack at bfusa.com] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 6:22 AM To: jim hearn Subject: RE: [Fot] Play in steering column Hi Jim... I have experienced similar problems with my TR250....check the pinch-bolts that hold the steering shaft splines in the lower universal joint (just north of the steering rack). It is also possible to do some adjustment at the upper end of the steering shaft and check the under dash steering shaft brackets .... there is a felt packing material in these brackets which deteriorates and allows 'slop' to develop. All of these operations are detailed in the TR6 repair operations manual Jack Coffey ph:615-937-1535 coffeyjack at bfusa.com -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jim hearn Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 1:04 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Play in steering column One of my TR6s was used to SCCA club race in the eighties and nineties. >From all that pulling on the steering wheel, it has developed about < to = inch of in and out play (felt as movement at the steering wheel) where the column goes into the steering box. Not having been into the rack and pinion I'm not sure what is happening so I don't know if it is fixable, needs to be replaced, or if it can go quite a while before being replaced. The car is not on the street; I only autocross and race it. Thanks, Jim Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] coffeyjack at bfusa.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tony at tonydrews.com Sun Oct 14 09:26:56 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 10:26:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] motor oil query In-Reply-To: <20071013143848.ODKBZ.107222.root@fepweb14> References: <20071013143848.ODKBZ.107222.root@fepweb14> Message-ID: <20071014152722.9D42D1879CE@autox.team.net> This has come up a few times. There was a relatively recent drop in ZDDP levels in motor oil across the spectrum caused by an EPA ruling. (ZDDP being burned causes decreased cat converter life.) This additive is critical to valvetrain life (specifically tappets and camshafts) in flat tappet engines. There are a few motor oils that have acceptable levels on ZDDP - (Kendall is no longer one of them): Brad Penn Joe Gibbs Racing oil Redline Valvoline Racing oil ("not for street use") - I think this is the least expensive of the bunch, and I special ordered it from NAPA. There are two versions - nonsynthetic (I'd use for break in), and Synthetic (what I normally use) There are also a couple of oil additives that boost your ZDDP levels: STP Oil treatment in the Red bottle (use an entire bottle in an oil change) - I don't use this one GM's EOS (Engine Oil Supplement?) - this is really intended to be an assembly lubricant. I add a half a bottle in an 8 to 10 quart oil change. I also use it liberally on the cam and lifters during engine assembly. By the way, I run the break-in oil for one race weekend and then switch to the synthetic. - Tony Drews At 01:38 PM 10/13/2007, igofaster at charter.net wrote: >Heys guys,,, newbie to the forum...STILL appreciative of the >non-stop information. My GT6 is equipped with Kendall 50W motor oil >at the time. We've run three weekends now and wonder if we can run a >synthetic now. I haven't been able to locate the Kendall in Texas. >My parts guy is recommending Amsoil synthetic. What is the consensus >among our group.... Bullet Bob recommended a BRAD PENN motor oil of >which I'm having difficulties locating as well... am I just looking >in the wrong places? > >Kindest regards, >Bobby Whitehead >33 GT6+ >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >tony at tonydrews.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dos_gusanos at msn.com Tue Oct 9 22:43:48 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:43:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> References: <60C60298-D6F5-49E0-AD6C-CADFDA3605A0@earthlink.net> <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Man, a lot has been said here, as I see it the Kastner Cup stands on its own. If you love to get together with all the other Triumph Nuts, you should go. The playing field will never be level and the victory must exist in one's mind through your own participation. I finished last at the all Elva race, and was thrilled just to have overcome all the hurdles that stood in my way just to get the car together and get there. When I started vintage racing in 1986, I had the pleasure to share the track in my TR3 with real Cobras, Cunningham C4R's and lots of other cool cars. Now the prospects of racing with IT 240z refugees just doesn't hold the same appeal. (say that real fast) Our local club just "expanded eligibility" to 1980. As I read the rule change, it included cars like Honda Civic which was done purely out of the convenience that there are a couple in town that want to show up and race. This sounds like a true expansion rather than a continuation policy, I support niether. General Racing puts their events together fairly well pairing period prepared cars with other cars from their period. You would not see the Group 44 TR6 pass the Bolton-Rothschild TR4 at a General Racing event because they never shared the track with each other back in the day. Just check out the video that Kas forwarded the other day of the 1971 runoffs. First thing the announcer touts is that the amatuers are gone and this race will be among professionals. Then it looks like a Spec 240Z race except for the TR6 hanging in there. These cars are a whole different breed from cars 6 or 7 years earlier that were still racing on wire wheels, maybe even being street driven. The future of Vintage Racing from my point of view is rather bleak as the prices of cars from the vintage period increase, and folks who remember the Vintage Period for what it was die off. Organizers of current vintage events who have strayed from the pre '67 formula are desperately trying to fill their grids with cars from the seventies, the period where amatuer road racing died, and finding there is little more enthusiasm for these Nerd Cars now, as there was back then. Some clubs that have stuck with a hard line on the Vintage cutoff dates, like CSRG, appear to be still doing well and I hope to participate with all their cool 50's and 60's cars next year. OBEY THE '67 GCR!!!!!!! Cheers, Henry Morrison Albuquerque, NM By the way, anybody going to Vegas? > To: fot at autox.team.net> From: lunkercars at earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 22:13:16 -0600> Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008> > Begin forwarded message:> > > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM MDT> > To: FOT > > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008> >> >>> >> FoTers,> >> I think Henry Morrison will be as surprised as I, to find myself > >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this discussion > >> several times before. However... Personally, I encourage expanded > >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for bigger grids. > >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a earlier > >> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR.> >> Regarding your car Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high > >> level of preparation, wouldn't it be more concise to list what it > >> DID leave the factory with? To me " All original steel panels > >> except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door, all 4 wings and > >> hardtop " is like saying " all original car except for body, > >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know what GRP is > >> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the > >> rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of > >> the art [which your car sounds to be] - not> >> "an act or scheme to out whit or deceive" {Webster}> >> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on > >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no disrespect aimed at > >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I > >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there > >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual > >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a > >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason.> >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules > >> read:> >>> >> Engine:> >>> >> Same type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit).> >> Period correct roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. > >> Compression Ratio is limited to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be > >> documented as higher from the factory as delivered for street > >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and period correct. No aluminum > >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless originally sold as > >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free but must not conflict > >> with stock type appearance of body.> >>> >>> >> Carburetion:> >> Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi > >> count). No Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped.> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> ---------------------> >>> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in compliance with the > >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host club] is even more strict > >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 was [as graciously > >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an inch of it's > >> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group > >> [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I > >> doubt if Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - > >> not really fair to the others.> >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how my Vintage prepped > >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans to attend > >> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain!> >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer> >> TR4 #314> >> Albuquerque N.M.> _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From britcars at bellsouth.net Tue Oct 9 15:27:42 2007 From: britcars at bellsouth.net (barry rosenberg) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 17:27:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Vandervell bearings on ebay Message-ID: Since I sold my TR4 race car and am quitting the British car business, I no longer need a lot of the stuff I have. I have put some items on ebay, some of which are Vandervell bearings for Triumphs. These are the good older bearings in original boxes. I have had then for at least 25 years now. This sale will surely be regretted in the future if I ever want to build another hot TR, but a new house is still underway. I will be constantly adding items thru out the next few months. Thanks. From keithfiles at btinternet.com Sun Oct 14 11:10:39 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:10:39 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <000a01c80a01$887a2350$41e3efdc@co3017577a> Message-ID: <20071014171118.4F0141879CE@autox.team.net> Hi Geoff, Thanks for the info. I was hoping that, as part of my retirement in a 5 years time, to do a bit of a tour with the TR6 and Oz was on my list of places to visit especially Phillip Island and Bathurst. I guess that I will need to re-consider; would my US TR4 built to the US vintage regulations be acceptable? Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: Geoffrey Byrne [mailto:gkbyrne at optushome.com.au] Sent: 09 October 2007 00:18 To: Keith Files; 'Kas Kastner'; 'Mike Munson'; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Friends Just to add an international perspective for interest , Keiths car would not get an Historic Log Book in Australia . Our Historic cars have to be OEM with very little mods ie plus one inch wider wheels Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Files" To: "'Kas Kastner'" ; "'Mike Munson'" ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 3:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > HI everybody, > > Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on the > cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion > either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when > compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the > Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver TR6 > placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won outright > at VIR in 2004. > > My TR6 has: > > Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 pistons > (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, > Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 DCOE > Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, luminiton > ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic RaceCraft > for the princely sum of c $20k. > > Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, > Quartermaster clutch. > > Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on > circuit). > > Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where > terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. > > Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot > callipers (these do make a big difference). > > Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door > and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs > less than a standard road car. > > Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. > > The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by > Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. > > The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as > well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then > Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) by > a country mile. > > At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a > Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over > here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well > driven spitfires. > > As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over in > 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am > going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over > youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys just > to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are > available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are > some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). > > As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. > > Cheers, Keith. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Kas Kastner > Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 > To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; > ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; > sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do > not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Munson" > To: ; ; ; > ; ; ; > ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > > 1900 > > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > > higher level than what SCCA does. > > > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > > > Mike Munson > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > > run > > > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > > standards. > > > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > > championship > > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > > > Jack Woehrle > > SVRA Technical Director > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > kaskas at cox.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > keithfiles at btinternet.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gkbyrne at optushome.com.au > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From keithfiles at btinternet.com Sun Oct 14 11:16:47 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:16:47 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710080948q5a046676kabb4a7e1a12da23a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071014171726.858EF1879F2@autox.team.net> Hi Chuck, The springs are 650 lbs all round; I will have to take a front and rear out to give you lengths. I use both a front and rear sway bar and both were designed and built by Jon Wood of Classic RaceCraft and are > in diameter. Cheers, Keith _____ From: Chuck Arnold [mailto:triosan at gmail.com] Sent: 08 October 2007 17:49 To: Keith Files Cc: Kas Kastner; Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Do, in SOVERN, the following would be illegal: +60 pistons [40=max] Any Webers [PI or two Strombergs only allowed] Roller rockers Maybe the tranny case Rear Konis [must use levers] Wilwood vented rotors Glass panels [any] So, what rate springs do you use [ponds/inch if possible] and what are their free lengths? Do you use a rear sway bar? Thanks. Hope to meet and race with you guys some time. Chuck Arnold On 10/6/07, Keith Files wrote: HI everybody, Just got back from yet another business trip and have just picked up on the cars for the Glen eligibility debate. I don't intend to voice an opinion either way but I would like to let you all know what is in my UK TR6 when compared to yours; hopefully this might set the record straight about the Brit cars. For those of you who know these things my modified Red/Silver TR6 placed 4th overall at M-O in the hands of Jon wood in 2002 and won outright at VIR in 2004. My TR6 has: Engine: Triumph TR6 block with a full steel engine running Omega +60 pistons (makes it around 2600 cc), has Carrillo rods, a billet crank, steel caps, Cambridge Motorsports steel flywheel, Classic RaceCraft cam, triple 45 DCOE Webbers, roller rockers, ported and flowed head and large valves, luminiton ignition 200bhp - nothing trick just built by Jon Wood of Classic RaceCraft for the princely sum of c $20k. Gearbox: Triumph Stag casing (for strength), dog gears, no overdrive, Quartermaster clutch. Diff: Triumph diff with Salisbury LSD and 3.9:1 CWP (or 4.1:1 depending on circuit). Suspension: Adjustable koni shocks all round (rear lever arms where terrible), up rated springs and poly bushes. Brakes: Standard rear drums, up rated Willwood ventilated rotors and 4 pot callipers (these do make a big difference). Body: All original steel panels except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door and all 4 wings and hardtop - all up weight is 930 kgs which is only 94kgs less than a standard road car. Wheels: 6" Compomotive running Yokohama A008R 205/60/15 tyres. The winning TR5 at M-O was the same specification as it was also built by Jon Wood; it is lighter than mine at around 875kgs that's all. The TR8s are different as they run up to 4.0 litres and around 300bhb as well as GRP panels; had Vern Brannon and Jon Wood not tangled at M-O then Vern would have won in his modified TR8 (slicks, no weight and 400+ bhp) by a country mile. At VIR we were the only wet race; it rained as we gridded up and being a Brit that was to my advantage - we get loads of practice in the wet over here :-) - and I took a narrow victory from 2 rather special and well driven spitfires. As you can see there is no big secret to this car; it will be coming over in 2012 for the 60th anniversary race where it will be driven by my son; I am going to take him on in my US TR4 and, hopefully, apply experience over youth and beat him. I will be happy to show this car to any of you guys just to show you that it is not that special and that all of the parts are available to the 6 cylinder runners over in the US (and I know there are some very rapid 6 cylinder cars over there already). As I said at the beginning; just trying to set the record straight. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles= btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kas Kastner Sent: 03 October 2007 04:12 To: Mike Munson; JWoesvra at aol.com; jaxonracing at yahoo.com; ehusmann53 at yahoo.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; emanteno at comcast.net; sgroh1 at comcast.net; westerneagleracing at worldnet.att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Yes, you have a point. The guys from England are a great group but they do not recognize our view and recognition of "Vintage". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Munson" To: < JWoesvra at aol.com >; ; ; >; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > Well I guess that will leave me and a few others out. I don't quite > understand it however. The car that won in Oklahoma ran with 45 mm fuel > injection where I have to run Webers with 28 mm chokes. It also weighs > 1900 > pounds where my car has to weigh 2190. > I am not complaining, just pointing out the fact that some vintage > organizations throughout the country allow you to prepare the car to a > higher level than what SCCA does. > > The cars from England are another story altogether. > > Mike Munson > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > > In a message dated 10/2/2007 5:57:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jaxonracing at yahoo.com writes: > > Can currently classified SCCA cars run in this event? Is there a class > within the run group that will support my car? My spit is prepared and > run > > under current SCCA regulations. > > > We will only be accepting cars that are prepared to the accepted vintage > standards. > > The only exceptions might be SCCA cars that have won a national > championship > and are still in the configuration that they were in at that time. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot triosan at gmail.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -- Chuck Arnold From tr5racer at btinternet.com Sun Oct 14 14:50:12 2007 From: tr5racer at btinternet.com (JOSEPH HUGHES) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 21:50:12 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Fot] 60th Anniversary race 2012 Message-ID: <748731.84979.qm@web86607.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Although it is still nearly 5 years away, I too intend bringing my TR5 over to race in 2012 at the 60th Anniversary race. I came over in 2002 and co-drove a TR7V8 in the 2 driver race but this time I will bring my own TR5 which by then will be in its 35th year of racing(same as the driver)! I have the distinction of having raced TR's longer than anyone else in the UK . First race was at Silverstone in 1977. However I am probably well short of some of the US drivers like Bill Dentinger and Dick Stockton! I had a brief drive in Keiths TR4 at Road America this year before the throttle cable snapped and had a great time again just as in 2002. Roll on 2012! Regards Mike Hughes --------------------------------- For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month. From igofaster at charter.net Sun Oct 14 14:58:45 2007 From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:58:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? Message-ID: <20071014165845.RFJT1.38126.root@fepweb09> The GT6+ #33 CVAR has a shift light at 5500 rpm and a rev limiter at 6000 rpm. I'm not running the crap out of it on a weekend outting. Are these superior motor oils we use designed to last more than a weekend? Is it retentive to change the oil after such use in one weekend, or can I run 3,4, 5 or more events in synthetic? Bobby Whitehead 1970 GT6+ #33 CVAR From tlizzard at msn.com Sun Oct 14 15:03:07 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 17:03:07 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? References: <20071014165845.RFJT1.38126.root@fepweb09> Message-ID: Oil is cheap. Change it often. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: igofaster at charter.net To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:58 PM Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? The GT6+ #33 CVAR has a shift light at 5500 rpm and a rev limiter at 6000 rpm. I'm not running the crap out of it on a weekend outting. Are these superior motor oils we use designed to last more than a weekend? Is it retentive to change the oil after such use in one weekend, or can I run 3,4, 5 or more events in synthetic? Bobby Whitehead 1970 GT6+ #33 CVAR _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tlizzard at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Sun Oct 14 15:16:02 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 17:16:02 EDT Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/14/2007 5:03:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tlizzard at msn.com writes: Oil is cheap. Change it often. Terry Stetler what he said... Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From fpspitfire at insightbb.com Sun Oct 14 15:55:52 2007 From: fpspitfire at insightbb.com (fpspitfire at insightbb.com) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 16:55:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? In-Reply-To: References: <20071014165845.RFJT1.38126.root@fepweb09> Message-ID: If you use cheap oil change it every weekend. With the redline I change it after every second or third event. aaron ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Stetler Date: Sunday, October 14, 2007 16:03 Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? To: fot at autox.team.net, igofaster at charter.net > Oil is cheap. > > Change it often. > > Terry Stetler > ----- Original Message ----- > From: igofaster at charter.net > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:58 PM > Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? > > > The GT6+ #33 CVAR has a shift light at 5500 rpm and a rev > limiter at 6000 > rpm. I'm not running the crap out of it on a weekend outting. > Are these superior motor oils we use designed to last > more than a weekend? > Is it retentive to change the oil after such use in one weekend, > or can I run > 3,4, 5 or more events in synthetic? > > Bobby Whitehead > 1970 GT6+ #33 CVAR > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > tlizzard at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > fpspitfire at insightbb.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From hottr6 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 14 18:19:04 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 20:19:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: Christian Marx wrote: >It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing car >on >its own wheels to the track....[snip] I too am another one who insists on driving the car to, AND from the track. Blame it on my upbringing; my Dad raced at Phillip Island and Bathurst. He drove the MG to the track, emptied the car and pulled off the plates, went racing and if the car survived, piled all the junk back in and drove home. If not, repaired the car at the track. The only mods to the car was a rollbar and a lap belt. The Bathurst 500 was done on the same set of tires. I navigated for my cousin who rallied a twin-cam Escort. Again a drive/to from the forest. I carried on this tradition when I raced bikes in the 70s, and the Pantera in the 90s. So it goes with Rags. Besides, I cannot afford a trailer and truck. This hobby is expensive enough as it is. :( Shane Ingate in NM. _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Cafi. Stop by today! http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 14 18:57:14 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 17:57:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> One of the guys out here in Arizona will use the Department of Motor Vehicle website to obtain a temporary license tag for his race prepared Porsche 911 on race weekends. The tag is good for three days (weekends and Holidays don't count toward the expiration time!) and costs $1.00. Tapes the permit that he prints out to his rear window and off he heads to the track. At 05:19 PM 10/14/2007, Shane Ingate wrote: >Christian Marx wrote: > > >It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing car > >on > >its own wheels to the track....[snip] > >I too am another one who insists on driving the car to, AND from the track. >Blame it on my upbringing; my Dad raced at Phillip Island and Bathurst. >He drove the MG to the track, emptied the car and pulled off the plates, >went >racing and if the car survived, piled all the junk back in and drove home. >If not, repaired the car at the track. > >The only mods to the car was a rollbar and a lap belt. The Bathurst 500 >was done on the same set of tires. > >I navigated for my cousin who rallied a twin-cam Escort. Again a drive/to >from the forest. > >I carried on this tradition when I raced bikes in the 70s, and the Pantera >in >the 90s. So it goes with Rags. > >Besides, I cannot afford a trailer and truck. This hobby is expensive >enough as it is. :( > >Shane Ingate in NM. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Cafi. Stop by >today! >http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >dave at microworks.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From koblinger at verizon.net Sun Oct 14 19:39:21 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:39:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> Driving race cars to the track was quite common in the old days, even F1 cars. http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/9475/60trintingnant9dd.jpg Some of you So. Cal. folks will recognize that piece of road as the stretch of 60 freeway just before the Day St. offramp that took you to Riverside Raceway. It's 1960 and that is Maurice Trintignant in his Cooper F1 on the way to the 1960 USGP. The teams used garages in the town of Riverside because there was nothing yet built at the track. Similar scenes could be seen around Le Mans and Monaco as those tracks had no real garage facilities in the old days. Cheers, Kurt Oblinger David W. Riddle wrote: >One of the guys out here in Arizona will use the Department of Motor >Vehicle website to obtain a temporary license tag for his race >prepared Porsche 911 on race weekends. The tag is good for three >days (weekends and Holidays don't count toward the expiration time!) >and costs $1.00. > >Tapes the permit that he prints out to his rear window and off he >heads to the track. > >At 05:19 PM 10/14/2007, Shane Ingate wrote: > > >>Christian Marx wrote: >> >> >> >>>It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing car >>>on >>>its own wheels to the track....[snip] >>> >>> >>I too am another one who insists on driving the car to, AND from the track. >>Blame it on my upbringing; my Dad raced at Phillip Island and Bathurst. >>He drove the MG to the track, emptied the car and pulled off the plates, >>went >>racing and if the car survived, piled all the junk back in and drove home. >>If not, repaired the car at the track. >> >>The only mods to the car was a rollbar and a lap belt. The Bathurst 500 >>was done on the same set of tires. >> >>I navigated for my cousin who rallied a twin-cam Escort. Again a drive/to >> >> >>from the forest. > > >>I carried on this tradition when I raced bikes in the 70s, and the Pantera >>in >>the 90s. So it goes with Rags. >> >>Besides, I cannot afford a trailer and truck. This hobby is expensive >>enough as it is. :( >> >>Shane Ingate in NM. >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Cafi. Stop by >>today! >>http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Sun Oct 14 19:55:23 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 21:55:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? References: <20071014165845.RFJT1.38126.root@fepweb09> Message-ID: <002701c80ece$734717f0$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> Keep running Kendall or what ever it is called now. It has all the good race engine stuff stuff. Syn is okay but if leaks bother you than syn will find a place to leak out. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:58 PM Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? > The GT6+ #33 CVAR has a shift light at 5500 rpm and a rev limiter at 6000 > rpm. I'm not running the crap out of it on a weekend outting. > Are these superior motor oils we use designed to last more than a weekend? > Is it retentive to change the oil after such use in one weekend, or can I > run 3,4, 5 or more events in synthetic? > > Bobby Whitehead > 1970 GT6+ #33 CVAR > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billbab at mac.com Sun Oct 14 20:14:23 2007 From: billbab at mac.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:14:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> Message-ID: <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> First one bounced--too big. Hey Mark, isn't 4K a bit too restrictive? On Oct 14, 2007, at 7:12 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I recognize the stretch of road. It's right before the main > entrance. Hard to believe that god-forsaken area is strip malls and > tract houses now. Last year I was up in Gorman where we used to > ride our dirt bikes for miles and miles all day long, and I > couldn't recognize anything. Solid houses as far as you can see. > > I drove my dirt bike (a 1976 Yamaha 360MX) from Belmont Shores to > the track several times to race in the Riverside Grand Prix. I had > a tail light, a fake headlight and the license plate from my street > bike. If I got stopped I doubt I would have been able to convince a > cop it was a 1972 BMW R50/5 I didn't have a car at the time. In > 1977 I seized the top end in practice, fixed it in the paddock > (freed the rings, sanded the scuff marks off the piston and got the > aluminum out of the bore with battery acid) put it all back > together and finished third. Seized again on the way home. Fixed it > again next to the road. Made it home. > > Thank God those days are over, though I wouldn't mind having that > energy level and absurd determination again. The next year I had a > real truck--I made it from a VW Squareback wagon. Cut the back end > off right behind the seats and made a flatbed out of it--we called > it "the yellow peril" which my chinese friend Barney greatly > appreciated. It was only marginally more reliable than the 360MX. > Had to take the whole bed off to change the oil. Didn't do that > very often. > > I'm building an Ambro, and I intend to street license it, expressly > so I can drive it to the track and race. > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:39 PM, Kurt Oblinger wrote: > >> Driving race cars to the track was quite common in the old days, >> even F1 >> cars. >> http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/9475/60trintingnant9dd.jpg >> >> Some of you So. Cal. folks will recognize that piece of road as the >> stretch of 60 freeway just before the Day St. offramp that took >> you to >> Riverside Raceway. It's 1960 and that is Maurice Trintignant in his >> Cooper F1 on the way to the 1960 USGP. The teams used garages in the >> town of Riverside because there was nothing yet built at the track. >> Similar scenes could be seen around Le Mans and Monaco as those >> tracks >> had no real garage facilities in the old days. From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 14 20:20:23 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:20:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> Message-ID: <839FC7BA-61F1-4D3E-954B-4FFC503F70A1@bnj.com> Incidentally, I still have BOTH bikes. Solid proof that I'm not a collector--I just can't stand to sell my motorcycles, though I'm nowhere nearly as attached to my modern bikes. On Oct 14, 2007, at 7:14 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > First one bounced--too big. Hey Mark, isn't 4K a bit too restrictive? > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 7:12 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> I recognize the stretch of road. It's right before the main >> entrance. Hard to believe that god-forsaken area is strip malls >> and tract houses now. Last year I was up in Gorman where we used >> to ride our dirt bikes for miles and miles all day long, and I >> couldn't recognize anything. Solid houses as far as you can see. >> >> I drove my dirt bike (a 1976 Yamaha 360MX) from Belmont Shores to >> the track several times to race in the Riverside Grand Prix. I had >> a tail light, a fake headlight and the license plate from my >> street bike. If I got stopped I doubt I would have been able to >> convince a cop it was a 1972 BMW R50/5 I didn't have a car at the >> time. In 1977 I seized the top end in practice, fixed it in the >> paddock (freed the rings, sanded the scuff marks off the piston >> and got the aluminum out of the bore with battery acid) put it all >> back together and finished second or third. Seized again on the >> way home. Fixed it again next to the road. Made it home. >> >> Thank God those days are over, though I wouldn't mind having that >> energy level and absurd determination again. The next year I had a >> real truck--I made it from a VW Squareback wagon. Cut the back end >> off right behind the seats and made a flatbed out of it--we called >> it "the yellow peril" which my chinese friend Barney greatly >> appreciated. It was only marginally more reliable than the 360MX. >> Had to take the whole bed off to change the oil. Didn't do that >> very often. >> >> I'm building an Ambro, and I intend to street license it, >> expressly so I can drive it to the track and race. >> >> On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:39 PM, Kurt Oblinger wrote: >> >>> Driving race cars to the track was quite common in the old days, >>> even F1 >>> cars. >>> http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/9475/60trintingnant9dd.jpg >>> >>> Some of you So. Cal. folks will recognize that piece of road as the >>> stretch of 60 freeway just before the Day St. offramp that took >>> you to >>> Riverside Raceway. It's 1960 and that is Maurice Trintignant in his >>> Cooper F1 on the way to the 1960 USGP. The teams used garages in the >>> town of Riverside because there was nothing yet built at the track. >>> Similar scenes could be seen around Le Mans and Monaco as those >>> tracks >>> had no real garage facilities in the old days. From cak at dimebank.com Sun Oct 14 20:29:20 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: <200710150229.l9F2TK7b003835@moose.dimebank.com> It was certainly de rigeur "back in the day" - no transporters for the factory teams, especially the sports car drivers. My work desk has a print of this: http://www.klemcoll.com/image/57C1B-9A.aspx?page= The caption that Klementaski put on it was "at 180 mph on the way to Brescia for the Mille Miglia, the wind almost tore my arm out of its socket while taking this photo". Hard to fathom, actually. From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 14 11:38:15 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 10:38:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: References: <60C60298-D6F5-49E0-AD6C-CADFDA3605A0@earthlink.net> <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Well said. I'd like to forward this to the general email list of SOVREN, since we're going through some of the same issues. I initially came down in favor of changing our eligibility to 1972, but I've been convinced by this and other arguments that remaining with 1968 is the right thing to do. On Oct 9, 2007, at 9:43 PM, wrote: > Man, a lot has been said here, as I see it the Kastner Cup > stands on its > own. If you love to get together with all the other Triumph Nuts, > you should > go. The playing field will never be level and the victory must > exist in one's > mind through your own participation. I finished last at the all > Elva race, > and was thrilled just to have overcome all the hurdles that stood > in my way > just to get the car together and get there. > When I started vintage racing in 1986, I had the pleasure to > share the > track in my TR3 with real Cobras, Cunningham C4R's and lots of > other cool > cars. Now the prospects of racing with IT 240z refugees just > doesn't hold the > same appeal. (say that real fast) Our local club just "expanded > eligibility" > to 1980. As I read the rule change, it included cars like Honda > Civic which > was done purely out of the convenience that there are a couple in > town that > want to show up and race. This sounds like a true expansion rather > than a > continuation policy, I support niether. > General Racing puts their events together fairly well pairing > period > prepared cars with other cars from their period. You would not see > the Group > 44 TR6 pass the Bolton-Rothschild TR4 at a General Racing event > because they > never shared the track with each other back in the day. Just check > out the > video that Kas forwarded the other day of the 1971 runoffs. First > thing the > announcer touts is that the amatuers are gone and this race will be > among > professionals. Then it looks like a Spec 240Z race except for the > TR6 hanging > in there. These cars are a whole different breed from cars 6 or 7 > years > earlier that were still racing on wire wheels, maybe even being > street driven. > The future of Vintage Racing from my point of view is rather > bleak as the > prices of cars from the vintage period increase, and folks who > remember the > Vintage Period for what it was die off. Organizers of current > vintage events > who have strayed from the pre '67 formula are desperately trying to > fill their > grids with cars from the seventies, the period where amatuer road > racing died, > and finding there is little more enthusiasm for these Nerd Cars > now, as there > was back then. Some clubs that have stuck with a hard line on the > Vintage > cutoff dates, like CSRG, appear to be still doing well and I hope to > participate with all their cool 50's and 60's cars next year. > > OBEY THE '67 GCR!!!!!!! > > Cheers, > Henry Morrison > Albuquerque, NM > > By the way, anybody going to Vegas? > > >> To: fot at autox.team.net> From: lunkercars at earthlink.net> Date: Mon, >> 8 Oct > 2007 22:13:16 -0600> Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS > GLEN 2008> >> Begin forwarded message:> > > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > > > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM > MDT> > To: FOT > > > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - > WATKINS GLEN > 2008> >> >>> >> FoTers,> >> I think Henry Morrison will be as > surprised as I, > to find myself > >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this > discussion > >> several times before. However... Personally, I > encourage > expanded > >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for > bigger > grids. > >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a > earlier > >>> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR.> >> Regarding >>> your car > Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high > >> level of > preparation, > wouldn't it be more concise to list what it > >> DID leave the > factory with? > To me " All original steel panels > >> except for GRP hood, trunk > lid, drivers > door, all 4 wings and > >> hardtop " is like saying " all original > car except > for body, > >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know > what GRP is >>>> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the >>>> > >> > rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of > >> > the art > [which your car sounds to be] - not> >> "an act or scheme to out > whit or > deceive" {Webster}> >> I guess I don't really understand what the > Kastner Cup > is based on > >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no > disrespect aimed at >>>> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I > >> >>>> actually > removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there > >> would > be no > question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual > >> Webers > were and > are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a > >> welder but > won't use it to > "improve" my diff for the same reason.> >> Most of the cars I raced > with in > Utah were from VARA who's rules > >> read:> >>> >> Engine:> >>> >> > Same > type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit).> >> > Period correct > roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. > >> Compression Ratio > is limited > to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be > >> documented as higher from > the factory > as delivered for street > >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and > period > correct. No aluminum > >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless > originally sold as > >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free > but must not > conflict > >> with stock type appearance of body.> >>> >>> >> > Carburetion:> >> > Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi > >> > count). No > Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped.> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > ---------------------> >>> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in > compliance with the > >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host > club] is even > more strict > >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 > was [as > graciously > >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an > inch of it's >>>> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group >>>> > >> > [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I > >> > doubt if > Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - > >> not > really fair > to the others.> >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how > my Vintage > prepped > >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans > to attend >>>> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain!> >>>> >> Greg > "Lunker" Hilyer> >> TR4 #314> >> Albuquerque N.M.> > _______________________________________________> > http://www.team.net/donate.html> > dos_gusanos at msn.com> Fot mailing > list> > Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From keithfiles at btinternet.com Sun Oct 14 12:05:58 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:05:58 +0100 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <1A5899DA-DE61-4A7D-BF1E-0BBD9D825393@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20071014180636.7C2F3187B01@autox.team.net> Hi Greg, Happy to try to address the question of what it did leave the factory with in terms of body, chassis and transmission. The inner body tub has to be original in all respects i.e. all inner panels and bulkheads are standard (although there are some who replace the mild steel with aluminium but I do not) with a number of outer panels in glass fibre (light weight but not by much as the overall reduction in weight is minor 930 kgs as opposed to a street car of 1024 kgs.). No changes to the original silhouette are allowed. The use of glass fibre is preferred as the panels are easy and cheap to replace. The chassis is standard Triumph with all original suspension pick-up points (The rear trailing arms are standard Triumph as is all of the front suspension bar the springs and shocks). The engine block and head must be original and must be in their original location. The gearbox must use a Triumph casing; we use the Stag one as it is stronger but not lighter. The differential case is standard Triumph. Hope this helps. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg "Lunker" Hilyer Sent: 09 October 2007 05:13 To: FOT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Begin forwarded message: > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM MDT > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > >> >> FoTers, >> I think Henry Morrison will be as surprised as I, to find myself >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this discussion >> several times before. However... Personally, I encourage expanded >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for bigger grids. >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a earlier >> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR. >> Regarding your car Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high >> level of preparation, wouldn't it be more concise to list what it >> DID leave the factory with? To me " All original steel panels >> except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door, all 4 wings and >> hardtop " is like saying " all original car except for body, >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know what GRP is >> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the >> rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of >> the art [which your car sounds to be] - not >> "an act or scheme to out whit or deceive" {Webster} >> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no disrespect aimed at >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason. >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules >> read: >> >> Engine: >> >> Same type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit). >> Period correct roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. >> Compression Ratio is limited to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be >> documented as higher from the factory as delivered for street >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and period correct. No aluminum >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless originally sold as >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free but must not conflict >> with stock type appearance of body. >> >> >> Carburetion: >> Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi >> count). No Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped. >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------- >> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in compliance with the >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host club] is even more strict >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 was [as graciously >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an inch of it's >> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group >> [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I >> doubt if Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - >> not really fair to the others. >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how my Vintage prepped >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans to attend >> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain! >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 14 20:12:33 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:12:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> Message-ID: <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> I recognize the stretch of road. It's right before the main entrance. Hard to believe that god-forsaken area is strip malls and tract houses now. Last year I was up in Gorman where we used to ride our dirt bikes for miles and miles all day long, and I couldn't recognize anything. Solid houses as far as you can see. I drove my dirt bike (a 1976 Yamaha 360MX) from Belmont Shores to the track several times to race in the Riverside Grand Prix. I had a tail light, a fake headlight and the license plate from my street bike. If I got stopped I doubt I would have been able to convince a cop it was a 1972 BMW R50/5 I didn't have a car at the time. In 1977 I seized the top end in practice, fixed it in the paddock (freed the rings, sanded the scuff marks off the piston and got the aluminum out of the bore with battery acid) put it all back together and finished third. Seized again on the way home. Fixed it again next to the road. Made it home. Thank God those days are over, though I wouldn't mind having that energy level and absurd determination again. The next year I had a real truck--I made it from a VW Squareback wagon. Cut the back end off right behind the seats and made a flatbed out of it--we called it "the yellow peril" which my chinese friend Barney greatly appreciated. It was only marginally more reliable than the 360MX. Had to take the whole bed off to change the oil. Didn't do that very often. I'm building an Ambro, and I intend to street license it, expressly so I can drive it to the track and race. On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:39 PM, Kurt Oblinger wrote: > Driving race cars to the track was quite common in the old days, > even F1 > cars. > http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/9475/60trintingnant9dd.jpg > > Some of you So. Cal. folks will recognize that piece of road as the > stretch of 60 freeway just before the Day St. offramp that took you to > Riverside Raceway. It's 1960 and that is Maurice Trintignant in his > Cooper F1 on the way to the 1960 USGP. The teams used garages in the > town of Riverside because there was nothing yet built at the track. > Similar scenes could be seen around Le Mans and Monaco as those tracks > had no real garage facilities in the old days. > > Cheers, > Kurt Oblinger > > David W. Riddle wrote: > >> One of the guys out here in Arizona will use the Department of Motor >> Vehicle website to obtain a temporary license tag for his race >> prepared Porsche 911 on race weekends. The tag is good for three >> days (weekends and Holidays don't count toward the expiration time!) >> and costs $1.00. >> >> Tapes the permit that he prints out to his rear window and off he >> heads to the track. >> >> At 05:19 PM 10/14/2007, Shane Ingate wrote: >> >> >>> Christian Marx wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive >>>> racing car >>>> on >>>> its own wheels to the track....[snip] >>>> >>>> >>> I too am another one who insists on driving the car to, AND from >>> the track. >>> Blame it on my upbringing; my Dad raced at Phillip Island and >>> Bathurst. >>> He drove the MG to the track, emptied the car and pulled off the >>> plates, >>> went >>> racing and if the car survived, piled all the junk back in and >>> drove home. >>> If not, repaired the car at the track. >>> >>> The only mods to the car was a rollbar and a lap belt. The >>> Bathurst 500 >>> was done on the same set of tires. >>> >>> I navigated for my cousin who rallied a twin-cam Escort. Again a >>> drive/to >>> >>> >>> from the forest. >> >> >>> I carried on this tradition when I raced bikes in the 70s, and >>> the Pantera >>> in >>> the 90s. So it goes with Rags. >>> >>> Besides, I cannot afford a trailer and truck. This hobby is >>> expensive >>> enough as it is. :( >>> >>> Shane Ingate in NM. >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger >>> Cafi. Stop by >>> today! >>> http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html? >>> ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> dave at microworks.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> koblinger at verizon.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From koblinger at verizon.net Sun Oct 14 20:47:11 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:47:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> Message-ID: <4712D4AF.7000907@verizon.net> Bill Babcock wrote: >> I'm building an Ambro, and I intend to street license it, expressly >> so I can drive it to the track and race. > I plan to do the same with a vintage Devin body I've had for about, oh, 20 years. Cheers, Kurt O. From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sun Oct 14 21:00:34 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:00:34 EDT Subject: [Fot] motor oil query Message-ID: Hi Bobby, Re your posting below: I did a soild 4 months of research into this subject Jan-April 2007, and there is a vast amount of information, and mis-information on the subject of oils on the internet. Quite frankly, I believe aonly about 10% of what I have read on the subject. The absolute best information may be found here: http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html Be sure to check out this link on that page: For a listing of oils tested, click here. I will shortly be changing from Valvoline Synpower (SL) to Amsoil Series 2000 Racing (Synthetic) 20w50 Nuff said! Best Regards, and good luck! Lion F Guyot 1963-1971 Triumph Vitesse Mk.2 Convertible - exact same engine as your GT6+ Original posting follows: Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:38:48 -0700 From: Subject: [Fot] motor oil query To: fot at autox.team.net Heys guys,,, newbie to the forum...STILL appreciative of the non-stop information. My GT6 is equipped with Kendall 50W motor oil at the time. We've run three weekends now and wonder if we can run a synthetic now. I haven't been able to locate the Kendall in Texas. My parts guy is recommending Amsoil synthetic. What is the consensus among our group.... Bullet Bob recommended a BRAD PENN motor oil of which I'm having difficulties locating as well... am I just looking in the wrong places? Kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead 33 GT6+ From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Sun Oct 14 21:13:36 2007 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:13:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20071014221336.y4qjz1apk0k4oos0@secure.uwalumni.com> Kurt Oblinger wrote: > Driving race cars to the track was quite common > in the old days, even F1 cars. > http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/9475/60trintingnant9dd.jpg > > Some of you So. Cal. folks will recognize that piece > of road as the stretch of 60 freeway just before the > Day St. offramp that took you to Riverside Raceway. It's been decades since I lived in SoCal, but I remember that stretch of road VERY well since I was at UC-Riverside at the time and went to virtually all the races during those 4+ years. > The teams used garages in the town of Riverside... As did the teams entered in the annual LA Times GP for sports cars. For a couple of years I worked at a foreign car repair/accessories shop on University Avenue where we put up two or three team cars every year. A highlight of those weekends was watching the drivers compete on the shop's slot car track (built as a miniature replica of the Riverside track, of course). And when I started racing my TR-4 in '63, I drove it to the Raceway as well. Who needs a trailer for a five-mile trip -- and what's more fun than driving a race car on the street? Jim Hill From John.Reed at wilson.com Mon Oct 15 07:05:39 2007 From: John.Reed at wilson.com (John.Reed at wilson.com) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 06:05:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <5B2AF419-4D62-4416-AAF6-A64CE71D9564@bnj.com> Message-ID: Last year George Stouffer drove his priceless Ford GT40 to the Botham Vineyard antique car show. Wish I could have seen and heard that. Regards, John Reed Staff Photographer Wilson Sporting Goods Co. 8750 W Bryn Mawr Ave, Chicago, Illinois 60631, USA Tel. + 1.773.714.6895, fax +1.773.714.4585 John.Reed at wilson.com www.wilson.com www.amersports.com Please note that effective immediately, my e-mail , phone number and street address have changed. Please update your files accordingly. Bill Babcock Sent by: fot-bounces+john.reed=wilson.com at autox.team.net 10/13/07 02:53 PM To "Marx Christian tr4-racing" cc fot at autox.team.net Subject Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car I wonder if it's a real one--I looked at the replica 917 that's been for sale on ebay--It was at Road America as I recall. Very nicely done, RSR motor, lot's a trick stuff. It would be fun to drive it on the road, and the price was reasonable. I nearly bought it, but sanity overtook me. Besides, what I really want is a Lola T70 for the street. On Oct 13, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive > racing car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot john.reed at wilson.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. From wgrosenbach at juno.com Mon Oct 15 07:26:23 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:26:23 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: <20071015.072624.2468.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Driving your racecar to the track gives you a different mind set at the event, you can break your ride home. Trailering gives more peace of mind, knowing if you break it, you can still get home. I generally drove my car to vintage races. Once in a snow storm with no heat or wipers. Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has a member who last year celebrated his 100th RMVR event as a driver. Bill Miller drives his almost original, stock, as delivered, Shelby GT-350 H to & from events. Packs everything he needs for the weekend in it, including Gerry Cans of fuel. This summer, he drove it from Denver to Miller MSP in Utah. He ONLY runs it on race fuel, so no just stopping at the Mini-Mart. That 100 events does NOT include the about half again that many other events & track days he & his steed have participated in. I believe he has been towed home twice, in all that time. Chek Beuf, an original owner of an original 427 Cobra, used to drive it, on race slicks, to the track. We had several appearances by a TR-3 which pulled a trailer with its race tyres & support materials. Original owner of an original Porsche 912 (looking like it just came off the showroom floor), has been driving to & from the track for years now. My car broke in Steamboat one year, Clive Averill loaded my car on his trailer and I drove his GT-6 back to Denver (you cannot believe how good that 2 litre six sounds at full chat, with no muffler, in the Johnson tunnel!). RMVR has an Historic Group, that encourages entries that are more what the factory produced, not what can be built from the catalogs. We have the Danny Colins Cup award, for that group. Points are awarded for driving To & From the track. If the point of the exercise is to recreate, reenact, racing from earlier years, we would drive to & from the track, time with analog stop watches. Like that's going to happen. Bill 70 GT-6+ On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 "Marx Christian tr4-racing" writes: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing > car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Mon Oct 15 07:38:46 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:38:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? References: <20071014165845.RFJT1.38126.root@fepweb09> Message-ID: <002d01c80f30$b5f72920$0200a8c0@Desktop> What's cheaper oil or new motor Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:58 PM Subject: [Fot] Oil change after every weekend? > The GT6+ #33 CVAR has a shift light at 5500 rpm and a rev limiter at 6000 > rpm. I'm not running the crap out of it on a weekend outting. > Are these superior motor oils we use designed to last more than a weekend? > Is it retentive to change the oil after such use in one weekend, or can I > run 3,4, 5 or more events in synthetic? > > Bobby Whitehead > 1970 GT6+ #33 CVAR > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 15 08:05:09 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:05:09 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Message-ID: <561BBBA6.62ABE6CF.00159EE9@cs.com> FoT Richard Taylor currently & totally redefines DRIVING TO THE TRACK. TR4 #196 with trailer hitch & trailer with racewheels and motorcycle. >Driving your racecar to the track gives you a different mind set at the >event, you can break your ride home. Trailering gives more peace of mind, >knowing if you break it, you can still get home. I generally drove my car >to vintage races. Once in a snow storm with no heat or wipers. > >Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has a member who last year celebrated his >100th RMVR event as a driver. Bill Miller drives his almost original, >stock, as delivered, Shelby GT-350 H to & from events. Packs everything >he needs for the weekend in it, including Gerry Cans of fuel. This >summer, he drove it from Denver to Miller MSP in Utah. He ONLY runs it on >race fuel, so no just stopping at the Mini-Mart. That 100 events does NOT >include the about half again that many other events & track days he & his >steed have participated in. I believe he has been towed home twice, in >all that time. > >Chek Beuf, an original owner of an original 427 Cobra, used to drive it, >on race slicks, to the track. >We had several appearances by a TR-3 which pulled a trailer with its race >tyres & support materials. >Original owner of an original Porsche 912 (looking like it just came off >the showroom floor), has been driving to & from the track for years now. >My car broke in Steamboat one year, Clive Averill loaded my car on his >trailer and I drove his GT-6 back to Denver (you cannot believe how good >that 2 litre six sounds at full chat, with no muffler, in the Johnson >tunnel!). > >RMVR has an Historic Group, that encourages entries that are more what >the factory produced, not what can be built from the catalogs. We have >the Danny Colins Cup award, for that group. Points are awarded for >driving To & From the track. > >If the point of the exercise is to recreate, reenact, racing from earlier >years, we would drive to & from the track, time with analog stop watches. >Like that's going to happen. > >Bill >70 GT-6+ > >On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 "Marx Christian tr4-racing" > writes: >> It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing >> car on >> its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some >> bucks more to >> spend... >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> wgrosenbach at juno.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >n197tr4 at cs.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 15 08:24:56 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:24:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] Ed Diehl to be FoT Honored Guest at Watkins Glen - Kastner Cup 2008 Message-ID: FoT List....it gives me great pleasure to announce that Ed Diehl will be joining us at Watkins Glen in 2008. Ed raced one of the 12 Hours of Sebring TR4s for Kas Kastner. Ed is proud of his race beginings with the Triumph TR3 and remains active in Road Racing....see short bio below gleaned from the ROAD RACING DRIVERS CLUB website. Joe Alexander "Ed Diehl Largo, Fla. Ed started racing in 1960 at Marlboro, Md., in a Triumph TR-3 b& Two years later he and Bob Tullius campaigned a unique (for Bob) black-painted Triumph b& The following year he raced a factory TR4 in the 12 Hours of Sebring, with Charlie Gates and Robert Cole, finishing second in the GT 11 class b& The variety of cars Ed has raced over the years includes a Holman-Moody Ford in a 12-hour sedan race at Marlboro, Md., a Saab Sedan Champ, and a G Modified Lola Mk 1 b& Competed in the first-ever Trans-Am race at Sebring in 1966 and finished fourth in his class with a Saab, co-driven by Sam Perry b& Also once drove one of the rare Corvette Grand Sport cars b& Winner of SCCA Regional and local club championships in a Triumph Spitfire from 1989 to 2000 b&. Currently drives a Mazda RX-7 and instructs in SCCA Driversb Schools." From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 15 08:33:22 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <20071015.072624.2468.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <395027.21742.qm@web57611.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Stop it, please stop. All this talk about driving to the track just may reverse a twenty year trend of bigger trailers and tow vehicles. If this were to happen do you know what would happen to the economy. Not to mention the day dreams that would affect the actions of young children. wink wink nudge nudge William G Rosenbach wrote: Driving your racecar to the track gives you a different mind set at the event, you can break your ride home. Trailering gives more peace of mind, knowing if you break it, you can still get home. I generally drove my car to vintage races. Once in a snow storm with no heat or wipers. Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has a member who last year celebrated his 100th RMVR event as a driver. Bill Miller drives his almost original, stock, as delivered, Shelby GT-350 H to & from events. Packs everything he needs for the weekend in it, including Gerry Cans of fuel. This summer, he drove it from Denver to Miller MSP in Utah. He ONLY runs it on race fuel, so no just stopping at the Mini-Mart. That 100 events does NOT include the about half again that many other events & track days he & his steed have participated in. I believe he has been towed home twice, in all that time. Chek Beuf, an original owner of an original 427 Cobra, used to drive it, on race slicks, to the track. We had several appearances by a TR-3 which pulled a trailer with its race tyres & support materials. Original owner of an original Porsche 912 (looking like it just came off the showroom floor), has been driving to & from the track for years now. My car broke in Steamboat one year, Clive Averill loaded my car on his trailer and I drove his GT-6 back to Denver (you cannot believe how good that 2 litre six sounds at full chat, with no muffler, in the Johnson tunnel!). RMVR has an Historic Group, that encourages entries that are more what the factory produced, not what can be built from the catalogs. We have the Danny Colins Cup award, for that group. Points are awarded for driving To & From the track. If the point of the exercise is to recreate, reenact, racing from earlier years, we would drive to & from the track, time with analog stop watches. Like that's going to happen. Bill 70 GT-6+ On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 "Marx Christian tr4-racing" writes: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing > car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 15 09:09:11 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 08:09:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I seem to keep losing answers. I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 rpm. I am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have done to increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done to make shifting in and out quicker? Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone have good links for OD repair/enhancement? Thanks -- Chuck Arnold From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Oct 15 12:55:37 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:55:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure References: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004501c80f5c$f9e4d2f0$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Chuck, I feel the stock J-type od unit is good as is. I used mine for several years with out any problem. I had a problem with it this year and found the problem wasn't the OD, but a tight bearing in the transmission. This caused the oil to heat up and thin causing the OD to not engage after a few laps. The following session it would work fine for several laps and quit again. Very frustrating and hard to diagnosis. I then put on a Volvo unit that I only clean the magnet and screen, and it worked fine. I had used a A-type transmission and OD borrowed from another racer and I didn't notice much difference except the A shifts up quicker and the J shifts down quicker. I read in an article regarding the J-type unit in a site for Volvos(maybe turbobricks.com) that you can change the relief valve spring to give a high pressure. I put a gauge on mine(J-type) and saw 450psi. I also use Redline 75w90ns oil in mine. I'm not sure how much you're looking for, but this seemed adequate. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Friends" ; "Triumph" <6pack at autox.team.net> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 8:09 AM Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure > Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I seem > to keep losing answers. > > I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 rpm. I > am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have done to > increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done to make > shifting in and out quicker? > > Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone have > good links for OD repair/enhancement? > > Thanks > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From don at carterdesignassociates.com Mon Oct 15 13:31:20 2007 From: don at carterdesignassociates.com (Don Carter) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:31:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Previous brake problem In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c80f61$f7254b80$57e8a8c0@DWC> A month or so ago I had requested ideas for possible causes for left front wheel being the only front brakes I had on my TR6. Several of you told me it couldn't possibly be the PDWA switch, which I thought might be the culprit since I believed it could restrict the fluid from flowing to that wheel. Obviously wrong when looking at the fluid path through the PDWA block to the front brakes. All of you were right-on with that advice!!! I turned my attention to the only other thing I believed could be wrong....the recently installed right caliper itself. When on the rack, both front brakes stopped the hand spin of each tire and wheel. Even though all parts were new in the entire system, from the MC to the braided ss brake hoses to the calipers and pads, the only parts that were remanufactured by the parts supplier were the calipers. I let my wife down from the lift, and bought another set of calipers. Now under hard braking, both wheels bring you down together. Just thought you guys would like to know that you certainly helped to solve another of my simple mysteries. Parts, whether new or remanufactured, once again has proved to me that they can be faulty. It must not take much to restrict the flow of brake fluid. Thanks again for your help. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com don at carterdesignassociates.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 15 13:42:18 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:42:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] FoT Triumphs at VARA and Laughlin Message-ID: FoT, What a pleasure to see the FOT at Las Vegas last weekend. FOT Triumphs are pristinely prepared and run flawlessly....no Mordy or Paul, however. Thanks for the T-Shirt, Chuck Gee! I'd like to see some of the shirt content on the 2008 Watkins Glen Shirt, if Scott Janzen & Ted Schumacher approve. The Coors in Steve Smith's Refrigerator was good, too. Kas & Peg were there for two days. Kas was looking officious with communications head set and a pair of watches. Good weather, with an aluminum overcast of USAF fighters from Nellis. Joe (A) PS: Joe Curry was over at Laughlin, NV with TWO Spitfires on steroids in search of FTD. The Triumph guys were great to see, but there sure were a lot of Gray Hairs making noises with those wierd machines. Uncle Jack couldnt figure out how to work them, so his fortune is still intact. He doesnt make a very good Gray Hair...at least not yet. From chris at tr4-racing.de Mon Oct 15 13:46:09 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:46:09 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car References: <395027.21742.qm@web57611.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004701c80f64$0ee47aa0$6402a8c0@HOME> My car before its way back home.... http://www.tr4-racing.de/pic/2005/zolder/zolder4_ex.JPG ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Husmann To: William G Rosenbach ; chris at tr4-racing.de Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Stop it, please stop. All this talk about driving to the track just may reverse a twenty year trend of bigger trailers and tow vehicles. If this were to happen do you know what would happen to the economy. Not to mention the day dreams that would affect the actions of young children. wink wink nudge nudge William G Rosenbach wrote: Driving your racecar to the track gives you a different mind set at the event, you can break your ride home. Trailering gives more peace of mind, knowing if you break it, you can still get home. I generally drove my car to vintage races. Once in a snow storm with no heat or wipers. Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has a member who last year celebrated his 100th RMVR event as a driver. Bill Miller drives his almost original, stock, as delivered, Shelby GT-350 H to & from events. Packs everything he needs for the weekend in it, including Gerry Cans of fuel. This summer, he drove it from Denver to Miller MSP in Utah. He ONLY runs it on race fuel, so no just stopping at the Mini-Mart. That 100 events does NOT include the about half again that many other events & track days he & his steed have participated in. I believe he has been towed home twice, in all that time. Chek Beuf, an original owner of an original 427 Cobra, used to drive it, on race slicks, to the track. We had several appearances by a TR-3 which pulled a trailer with its race tyres & support materials. Original owner of an original Porsche 912 (looking like it just came off the showroom floor), has been driving to & from the track for years now. My car broke in Steamboat one year, Clive Averill loaded my car on his trailer and I drove his GT-6 back to Denver (you cannot believe how good that 2 litre six sounds at full chat, with no muffler, in the Johnson tunnel!). RMVR has an Historic Group, that encourages entries that are more what the factory produced, not what can be built from the catalogs. We have the Danny Colins Cup award, for that group. Points are awarded for driving To & From the track. If the point of the exercise is to recreate, reenact, racing from earlier years, we would drive to & from the track, time with analog stop watches. Like that's going to happen. Bill 70 GT-6+ On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 "Marx Christian tr4-racing" writes: > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive racing > car on > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > bucks more to > spend... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From chris at tr4-racing.de Mon Oct 15 14:09:44 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:09:44 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car References: <737379.5356.qm@web57612.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002501c80f67$550d4400$6402a8c0@HOME> I was the last car leaving the trackside. Converting the car back needs some time. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Husmann To: Marx Christian tr4-racing Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Were you the only one staying in the high rent area? You might want to consider a flamingo or two to dress up the area. I don't have an issue with trailers until they obscure the scenery which is becoming quite common around here. Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: My car before its way back home.... http://www.tr4-racing.de/pic/2005/zolder/zolder4_ex.JPG ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Husmann To: William G Rosenbach ; chris at tr4-racing.de Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car Stop it, please stop. All this talk about driving to the track just may reverse a twenty year trend of bigger trailers and tow vehicles. If this were to happen do you know what would happen to the economy. Not to mention the day dreams that would affect the actions of young children. wink wink nudge nudge ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. From S.Janzen at comcast.net Mon Oct 15 14:42:59 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:42:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FoT Triumphs at VARA and Laughlin References: Message-ID: <008e01c80f6b$f99ea460$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Chuck, please send along the tee shirt design if you can so we can take a look. Thanks! Scott Janzen GT6 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: [Fot] FoT Triumphs at VARA and Laughlin > FoT, > > What a pleasure to see the FOT at Las Vegas last weekend. FOT Triumphs > are > pristinely prepared and run flawlessly....no Mordy or Paul, however. > > Thanks for the T-Shirt, Chuck Gee! I'd like to see some of the shirt > content on the 2008 Watkins Glen Shirt, if Scott Janzen & Ted Schumacher > approve. > > The Coors in Steve Smith's Refrigerator was good, too. > > Kas & Peg were there for two days. Kas was looking officious with > communications head set and a pair of watches. > > Good weather, with an aluminum overcast of USAF fighters from Nellis. > > Joe (A) > > PS: Joe Curry was over at Laughlin, NV with TWO Spitfires on steroids in > search of FTD. The Triumph guys were great to see, but there sure were a > lot of > Gray Hairs making noises with those wierd machines. Uncle Jack couldnt > figure > out how to work them, so his fortune is still intact. He doesnt make a > very good > Gray Hair...at least not yet. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Mon Oct 15 14:43:58 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:43:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car References: <200710150229.l9F2TK7b003835@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <00c901c80f6c$1cbfde00$0a10c548@RW> In 1963 we drove the 3 TR-4 cars entered in the 12 hour on the street and roads to the track from Miami. It was VERY cool. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Kantarjiev" To: Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car > It was certainly de rigeur "back in the day" - no transporters for > the factory teams, especially the sports car drivers. > > My work desk has a print of this: > > http://www.klemcoll.com/image/57C1B-9A.aspx?page= > > The caption that Klementaski put on it was "at 180 mph on the way > to Brescia for the Mille Miglia, the wind almost tore my arm > out of its socket while taking this photo". > > Hard to fathom, actually. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From henry at henryfrye.com Mon Oct 15 15:24:35 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:24:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Race Report VSCDA @ Mid-Ohio 1 of 2 Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FB18@server.Triumph.local> Another fantastic race weekend with VSCDA at Mid-Ohio. Weather was downright pleasant in the afternoons, but I will concede it was a little chilly early mornings. The Triumph gang was well represented, and I believe we put on a great show. Track conditions were slick on the first Friday morning sessions, because of a couple days rain prior to our event. I have never drove a track that looked dry that was so wet and slick. By the second morning session things were much better, and the rest of the weekend we had good grip despite coolish temps, but those engines were taking full advantage of that dense, dry air. We were making power! The Beady Eye gang made it look easy, they hung out calmly waiting for our turn to make noise. When that time came they ran well, and I don't know if either Bob Wismer or Bill Dentinger touched a tool other than a tire pressure gauge and the torque wench for the wheel lugs all weekend. Next door was a different story, Mark Wheatley and I seemed to be busy all weekend, first chasing an elusive flat spot on Mark's fresh engine, then trying to track down the source of a driveline vibration on my car. All great fun. Jeff Snook was the Triumph to beat, and nobody had anything for him once he hooked up with Vic Skirmants in his 356. I was hoping Vic would get Jeff to wear out his Hoosiers to the point I would get him, but my vibration woes ended that idea. Kudos to Jeff for beating Vic in the Qualifying race, Vic gave him a real run for his money. In the feature Vic got by Jeff early on, and Jeff's tires gave out on cue, so a repeat performance didn't happen. But any day a Triumph beats up on National Champ Skirmants is a very big deal! Way to go Jeff! Dennis DeLap was running his TR4, with his ever-present pit bunny/wife Joanie at his side. Dennis ran real well, flirted real close to that sub-two minute lap, you will get it next time, my friend. Over in Group 8, Dale Oesterle was the lone Triumph running with all the MGB's, not really sure how VSCDA gets that to work when all the TR3's and 4's run with the MGA's. But anyway, Dale is STILL looking for a FC Spitty block to rebuild his primary race engine. Come on folks, we know you Spit pilots are hoarding these 'getting scarcer by the day' cores. But this is an active racer in a really quick car that needs our help! Continued on Page 2 From henry at henryfrye.com Mon Oct 15 15:26:39 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:26:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Race Report VSCDA @ Mid-Ohio 1 of 2 Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FB19@server.Triumph.local> Continued from page 1 FOT'ers Mike Jackson, John Harkness and John Wiley all bought funny Volkswagen things, but I have to admit that FV crowd does have tons-o-fun. The Wine and Cheese parties, sponsored as always by the Beady Eye Racing Team, had some fantastic whining and really good cheese. Don Brick supplied a hunk of blue to die for. Very honorable mention to John Federici (sp?) for the smoked provolone that was really, really nice. Another highlight was spending time Bob Colazzi and the guy Bob brought to turn wrenches on his Lotus 7. I am terrible with names. Not only did we have great fun giving Colazzi a hard time for any number of things including coming in second overall in our group, but Bob's wrench is the guy that set the speed records at Bonneville in an Alfa. He built and drove it over 200 MPH on the salt. Had me drooling in my beer. I'll post a couple pictures I took of the car at Watkins Glen last year when I get a chance. This event was the MG racers focus event for the season. There were 60 MG powered cars on track, the highlight being a MGTC that hauled. It was driven in both Group 2 and 8, as it was shared by two drivers. It was actually tough to pass, it had amazing straight line speed and the driver in the Group 2 sessions was either incredibly brave or stupid. He is certainly very talented. He tossed that 60 year old car around like it was a real racecar. Very cool to watch. Unfortunately the gearbox gave up end of day Saturday, and it retired for the weekend. The schedule gave everybody 90 minutes of track time in 3 sessions on Friday, two sessions totaling 45 minutes Saturday morning, a 10 lap Sprint race Saturday afternoon, Sunday warm-ups and a 12 lap feature race on Sunday morning. Plus, the MG guys got 2 All-MG feature races, one for the fast and the other for the no-so-fast, AND a gimmick race that I swear the drivers meeting explaining how the thing worked had to take longer than the race would take to run. But, hey, they are MG guys. :-) Our chaos is not that organized!!! I'll be back next year, you folks who don't have this event on your schedule are really missing out on a great event. From henry at henryfrye.com Mon Oct 15 15:37:48 2007 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:37:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Pictures posted... Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FB1A@server.Triumph.local> ... of the Alfa Land Speed record car I mentioned in my VSCDA - Mid-Ohio race report. http://autox.team.net/the-local/tiki-galleries.php From tlizzard at msn.com Mon Oct 15 15:43:31 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:43:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Race Report VSCDA @ Mid-Ohio 1 of 2 References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FB19@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: Thanks for the report Henry! Got filled in this morning By Jeff as well. Sounds like the TR boys were keeping the British end up. Carry on! Terry Stetler From chris at tr4-racing.de Tue Oct 16 02:53:03 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:53:03 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails Message-ID: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME> Since FOT has moved to an new account I don't get FOT mails anymore. I've phoned with my ISP about the problem. They said that some of the smaller US providers don't glue to the standards of internet transfer rules and so they are blocked when their header configuration don't pass the master control program. Even if I set the FOT mails on the white list won't have any change in blocking the FOT mails by my ISP. And on the other way round I can't send mails to some of the US friends (including Kas) .... where I am blocked as spam. >From this point of view we are facing future comunication troubles in global contacts. Cheers Chris From CoffeyJack at bfusa.com Tue Oct 16 07:32:05 2007 From: CoffeyJack at bfusa.com (Coffey, Jack) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:32:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5C33EB5352EE814AB72F655EA92399A20EF7FCB4@exc2-na-chq.bfusa.com> See attached pix.... Blanket bolts to engine plate with metal tabs (photo top) and straps attach blanket to trans case. Has a heat shield on exhaust side Current Deist shields (for Honda) are listed at $194 - $204. I cannot find what I paid for this but I'm sure it was more than $200 Want to make an offer??? Jack Coffey ph:615-937-1535 coffeyjack at bfusa.com -----Original Message----- From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer [mailto:lunkercars at earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 11:06 AM To: Coffey, Jack; FOT Cc: Chuck Arnold Subject: Re: [Fot] Scatershield source? Sure - Please send info just in case Henry does have a 1000' minimum... Honestly, I would be interested in seeing a picture of one. Greg On Oct 10, 2007, at 9:50 AM, Coffey, Jack wrote: > Chuck...Greg....I have a Deist blanket type scattershield...never > used. > If interested, I can send pix & look up what I paid for it > See attached e-mail for further info on attachment & development by > Mordy Dunst & John Frymark > > Jack Coffey > ph:615-937-1535 > coffeyjack at bfusa.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+coffeyjack=bfusa.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Chuck Arnold > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 10:30 AM > To: Greg Lunker Hilyer > Cc: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Scatershield source? > > On that topic, who is a good source of scatter shields? Need one > for a > TR5/6 > > On 10/9/07, Greg Lunker Hilyer wrote: >> >> Long shot, but... Any tips on who might have a good TR4 trans >> anywhere near Albuquerque? Had a pressure plate come apart in Hallett >> last weekend and it took the bellhousing with it. Still hope to have >> the car ready for Connie to race here this coming weekend. Looking at >> the carnage, my scattershield just got bumped way up on the list. >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> triosan at gmail.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > coffeyjack at bfusa.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Deist_0001.JPG] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Deist_0002.JPG] From chasgee at aol.com Tue Oct 16 08:41:12 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:41:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <8C9DE194C06264D-C10-21D2@webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C9DE19BBCDE149-C10-221A@webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com> Greg, Didn't see your post earlier regarding the VARA rules.? The VARA rules you are quoting are for what we call "group 1" cars, for competitors who wish to compete with nearly stock automobiles.? We have a few of those in the organization, but most prefer to set their cars up to the regular rule book.? Please look more closely at the rulebook and you will see what I mean. I disagree with your overall comments regarding your ability to be competitive.? Kreger built his TR6 for a reason, and can run it where he is from (Seattle area).? My car is built to VARA rules because that is where I'm from.? Funny thing is, there is really nothing fancy about mine, just changes to make it more reliable so that I can increase my seat time.? 12.5:1 compression, 0.055 over bore,?steel rods, massaged stock crankshaft (not stroked - not allowed by our rules)? 30 year old camshaft design (Kastner A-10) and roller rockers.? I do have an aluminum flywheel (built by Lee Mueller) and upraded stock clutch.? All steel body except for trunk lid and hood, upraded springs and shocks, welded diff, and fancy transmission (rules state that you must use the stock case and have the same number of forward gears, so I took a page from the Sprites and built a dog box using Hewland pieces and the Spitfire case.? I think Taylor sells these now).? Obviously, I also run Webers, but Kas thinks it would perform better with twin SUs.? Maybe I'll try that sometime.? My sucess has been from the ability to keep it together and maximize handling.? But the biggest improvement by far is from seat time.? Everyone keeps coming up and asking what I've done to the car to make it so fast.? I keep saying that I've just finally learned to drive it.? Also Greg, I distinctly remember that you were extremely competitive at Miller and a real thorn in my side.? Please don't take that as a negative comment, because I really enjoyed racing and hanging out with you.? I think the reason that was the case is because you've focussed on driving the car rather than maximizing your straightaway performance.? I strongly believe that you would be very competitive at any VARA race with the car as prepped for Miller.? I also stronlgy encourage you to refrain from further prep because, honestly, I don't want the hassle of dealing with you with a locked diff and good brakes! Chuck Gee Blacksmith Racing You wrote: >> Again, no disrespect aimed at >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason. >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules >> read: >> etc, etc >> ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From chris at tr4-racing.de Tue Oct 16 09:11:30 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:11:30 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails References: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME> <8cbd782d0710160802j437bd53fk8947dbe81c03d6d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00bd01c81006$d5059460$6402a8c0@HOME> Especialy the providers Comcast.net juno.com cox.net bellsouth.net and some others block my mails out Chris From chris at tr4-racing.de Tue Oct 16 09:17:40 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:17:40 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails References: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME> <001a01c81006$a62a0900$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <00c901c81007$b2886d80$6402a8c0@HOME> I can send to FOT, but not receive. Only the workaround from Tony Drews keeps me update what is happening here. Kas I've send you 3 mails over the last 2 days but all returned to me. Maybe after 24H I get through again but not sure this is. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails > You messages to me come in plain and clear Chris. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 1:53 AM > Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails > > > > Since FOT has moved to an new account I don't get FOT mails anymore. > > > > I've phoned with my ISP about the problem. > > > > They said that some of the smaller US providers don't glue to the > > standards of > > internet transfer rules and so they are blocked when their header > > configuration don't pass the master control program. Even if I set the FOT > > mails on the white list won't have any change in blocking the FOT mails by > > my > > ISP. > > > > And on the other way round I can't send mails to some of the US friends > > (including Kas) .... where I am blocked as spam. > > > >>From this point of view we are facing future comunication troubles in > >>global > > contacts. > > > > Cheers > > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > kaskas at cox.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Tue Oct 16 10:22:44 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:22:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails References: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME><8cbd782d0710160802j437bd53fk8947dbe81c03d6d1@mail.gmail.com> <00bd01c81006$d5059460$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <002f01c81010$c8782fa0$2d02a8c0@Belkin> I have COX and I think Kas does too and my FOT messages are not blocked, I am sure that Kas' aren't either. Joe C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails > Especialy the providers > > Comcast.net > juno.com > cox.net > bellsouth.net > > and some others block my mails out > > Chris > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Tue Oct 16 14:50:27 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:50:27 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Emailing: 2002_0207AA Message-ID: Photo from the 1965 Races at Lime Rock...Photo by Bill Perry...in the Lime Rock 1966 national races program..July 4th..Tr3 driver is Ken Sloan..Volvo driver is Art riley Racer Bud..spitfire #21 The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: 2002_0207AA Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 2002_0207AA.JPG] From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Oct 16 18:33:50 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:33:50 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails In-Reply-To: <002f01c81010$c8782fa0$2d02a8c0@Belkin> References: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME> <8cbd782d0710160802j437bd53fk8947dbe81c03d6d1@mail.gmail.com> <00bd01c81006$d5059460$6402a8c0@HOME> <002f01c81010$c8782fa0$2d02a8c0@Belkin> Message-ID: <20071017003424.0A2471879C8@autox.team.net> I end up blocked every once in a while. What happens is that someone else using your Internet Service Provider (ISP) is sending out unsolicited e-mails (spam). So, one of the "blacklist" agencies puts the outgoing address (IP address) of these messages on a list of spammers. The companies that subscribe to the blacklist agency then rejects your e-mails. In order to get this fixed, the ISP needs to terminate the spammers account and contact the blacklist agency to get their IP address(es) removed from the blocked list. I have had to do this before for a company that hosted their own e-mail account, and it's no fun to work with the blacklist agencies. In my case, the ISP that hosts my domain, website and e-mail is pretty good about killing the bad guys' account and getting me back in service. It usually takes a couple of days. This doesn't affect FOT e-mails getting to me, or my ability to send to FOT, but it DOES affect my ability to reply privately. In an effort to keep off the blacklist, my ISP limits me to 10 addresses on any outgoing mail. That's bitten me before too on a "reply to all". I have no good suggestions to the German ISP's blocking / rejection of e-mail from the FOT list. It would be nice of them to offer an explanation of what's wrong with the e-mail message headers and what they need to see in those headers in order to NOT block the messages. It's possible that Mark can tweak something to make that change happen. I suspect that an ISP based in Germany is less interested in contacting some agency in the USA that has put them on the "bad guys" list than my US-based ISP is. One possible solution is to get yet ANOTHER e-mail address from someone like google or yahoo. They are likely to keep things moving. Google e-mail can be retrieved by normal e-mail clients. I've read statistics that over 90% of the e-mail sent in the world is unsolicited "spam" e-mail (may be as much as 97%). The volume has roughly doubled over the last year. My personal account has received 199 of them so far today, and I'll probably get 50 more before midnight. There's no perfect solution on how to block these, so different ISP's use different strategies to fight this scourge. This is a HUGE problem and threatens the use of e-mail in general. I've missed key business correspondence because the ISP that hosts my office's e-mail has flagged inter-office communications and communications from vendors and clients as spam. Internet e-mail needs a redesign that solves this problem. - Tony At 11:22 AM 10/16/2007, you wrote: >I have COX and I think Kas does too and my FOT messages are not blocked, I >am sure that Kas' aren't either. > >Joe C. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 8:11 AM >Subject: Re: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails > > > > Especialy the providers > > > > Comcast.net > > juno.com > > cox.net > > bellsouth.net > > > > and some others block my mails out > > > > Chris From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 16 18:50:52 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:50:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Trouble with receiving FOT mails In-Reply-To: <20071017003424.0A2471879C8@autox.team.net> References: <006001c80fd1$f6e93800$6402a8c0@HOME> <8cbd782d0710160802j437bd53fk8947dbe81c03d6d1@mail.gmail.com> <00bd01c81006$d5059460$6402a8c0@HOME> <002f01c81010$c8782fa0$2d02a8c0@Belkin> <20071017003424.0A2471879C8@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <37366754-2120-4FFA-9DFA-49BAA14B21AA@bnj.com> Using a google email account is a fairly good solution and it's free. You get more than a gigabyte of storage, which should be adequate, and Goggle has pretty effective spam blocking. They also run efficient outgoing email management and policing so their IPs never get blocked. You can retrieve your mail via any system that handles IMAP or POP3 accounts. I have a Gmail account and a .MAC account, but for general use I'm still using BNJ.com which runs on my company's own servers at a tier one hosting facility. We run the most sophisticated spam blockers we can buy, and use pros to manage the systems, and it's still a persistent and serious problem. There IS no such thing as security on the internet, and no current solution to email problems given the current architecture. The most likely answer is complete identifiability on the web--an architecture that eliminates anonymity. But that get the hackles of the internet community up quicker than any other topic I can image. Personally, I have never understood why people believe a totally anonymous system is a good thing. Privacy and anonymity may share some characteristics, but they are not the same thing. From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Oct 17 05:51:09 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 06:51:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> References: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> Chuck, Try Quantum Mechanics - John Esposito (203) 459-9612. He is a British transmission and O/D expert. He can rebuild your O/D to full race specs. He is reasonable, honest and a very helpful guy. To shift faster you will need to drill out the oil passages to increase the pressure and you should install upgraded clutch packs. There are several bearings that also need to be changed to handle the higher level of stress. I'm running about 600 lbs. of pressure in mine and it shifts very quickly! Allen On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I > seem > to keep losing answers. > > I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 > rpm. I > am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have > done to > increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done > to make > shifting in and out quicker? > > Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone > have > good links for OD repair/enhancement? > > Thanks > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > awashatko at wi.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From mlcooknj at msn.com Wed Oct 17 08:05:52 2007 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:05:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA Message-ID: Done! Mike can you send it to the rest of fot? thanks Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: michael cook To: RACER BUD Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Emailing: 2002_0207AA I would have loved to see the photo but some kind electronic agency or whatever decided the attachment should be removed. I know Ken Sloan, I knew Art Riley and I started racing my own TR3 only 2 years later. Lots of memories. Mike Cook ----- Original Message ----- From: RACER BUD Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 6:42 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Emailing: 2002_0207AA Photo from the 1965 Races at Lime Rock...Photo by Bill Perry...in the Lime Rock 1966 national races program..July 4th..Tr3 driver is Ken Sloan..Volvo driver is Art riley Racer Bud..spitfire #21 The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: ----- Original Message ----- From: RACER BUD Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:58 PM To: michael cook Subject: Emailing: 2002_0207AA whoohoo! i think it worked! The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: 2002_0207AA Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 2002_0207AA.JPG] From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Oct 17 08:09:54 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:09:54 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Peter Bulkowski Message-ID: I would like to nominate Peter Bulkowski to FOT. Peter has been in racing for many years, having won 3 E Production championships in Canada by the time he was selected by Jaguar/Rover/Triumph in 1979 to run a TR8 in IMSA,Trans-Am and endurance series. His car is basically a Canadian Group 44 TR8, having been granted access in 1979 through JRT to the Tullius Group 44 shop, the body, frame, suspension and wheels are patterned after the Group 44 TR8. He raced throughout Canada and US from 1980 to 1984 and had a number of top 5 finishes. In 1984 Peter sold the car and got out of racing, however in 2000 a friend found his car which had been sitting for a number of years. Peter gave in to "the force" and bought the car back and completely rebuilt the car over the next three years. He has since raced the car at VARAC Group 70 events and at the Toronto Indy. This year at Mosport he had an engine let go at speed, damaging the right side of the car as it hit the Armco backwards. Luckily Peter was unhurt and now has the car almost fully repaired. He is determined to have it ready for the season next year and plans to race at Watkins Glen, hopefully with/against the Group 44 TR8. It will be quite the reunion. Please can I have a second for the nomination? Paul MacDonald [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From budscars at msn.com Wed Oct 17 08:10:58 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:10:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA Message-ID: Hello Gang..I'll try again..This photo is at Lime rock in 1965..photo by Bill Perry..It's in the 1966, july 4th national races program Tr3 driver is Ken Sloan..Volvo driver is Art Riley Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: RACER BUD To: michael cook Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: Emailing: 2002_0207AA The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: 2002_0207AA Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 2002_0207AA.JPG] From herald948 at aol.com Wed Oct 17 09:08:45 2007 From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:08:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9DEE6BF5C8AAC-A00-3C5A@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: RACER BUD Hello Gang..I'll try again..This photo is at Lime rock in 1965..photo by Bill Perry..It's in the 1966, july 4th national races program Tr3 driver is Ken Sloan..Volvo driver is Art Riley ==AM== Bud, this list won't take attachments. Perhaps you could send it to Mordy Dunst or Henry Frye and/or whoever takes care of the FoT web site: ? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 17 09:16:02 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:16:02 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure In-Reply-To: <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> References: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710170816w6958584al11344eba430d912d@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Allen. I have now done quite a bit of research, but you have brought up a few new wrinkles. I do deal with John already. What bearings need "uprating"? I thought them to already be quite stout. The major issues seem to be with the clutch cone [get it redone with a surface that grips better] and pressure [increase it so shifts happen quicker and engagement remains at speed]. for pressure, there have been three responses: Remember, this is for a J-type, not an A-type]: 1. To hold pressure when not engaged [like coming off the line in a standing start], shorten the 4 inner springs of the operating pistons so it takes more pressure to release to overdrive. 2. For pressure: a: increase the spring rate of the pressure relief valve bu adding a washer or two under the spring b: drill out the "oil passage". Not sure which passage but assume it is the one from the solenoid to the dash pot -- would like a comment on this from anyone who knows c. Get the clutches on the cone relined Does anyone have anymore suggestions? On 10/17/07, Allen Washatko wrote: > > Chuck, > Try Quantum Mechanics - John Esposito (203) 459-9612. He is a British > transmission and O/D expert. He can rebuild your O/D to full race > specs. He is reasonable, honest and a very helpful guy. To shift faster > you will need to drill out the oil passages to increase the pressure > and you should install upgraded clutch packs. There are several > bearings that also need to be changed to handle the higher level of > stress. I'm running about 600 lbs. of pressure in mine and it shifts > very quickly! > > Allen > > On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > > > Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I > > seem > > to keep losing answers. > > > > I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 > > rpm. I > > am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have > > done to > > increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done > > to make > > shifting in and out quicker? > > > > Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone > > have > > good links for OD repair/enhancement? > > > > Thanks > > > > -- > > Chuck Arnold > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > awashatko at wi.rr.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > -- Chuck Arnold From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 17 09:42:11 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:42:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure In-Reply-To: <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> References: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710170842m51acf98el762cf6be0514024e@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Allen. I have now done quite a bit of research, but you have brought up a few new wrinkles. I do deal with John already. What bearings need "uprating"? I thought them to already be quite stout. The major issues seem to be with the clutch cone [get it redone with a surface that grips better] and pressure [increase it so shifts happen quicker and engagement remains at speed]. for pressure, there have been three responses: Remember, this is for a J-type, not an A-type]: 1. To hold pressure when not engaged [like coming off the line in a standing start], shorten the 4 inner springs of the operating pistons so it takes more pressure to release to overdrive. 2. For pressure: a: increase the spring rate of the pressure relief valve bu adding a washer or two under the spring b: drill out the "oil passage". Not sure which passage but assume it is the one from the solenoid to the dash pot -- would like a comment on this from anyone who knows c. Get the clutches on the cone relined Does anyone have anymore suggestions? On 10/17/07, Allen Washatko wrote: > > Chuck, > Try Quantum Mechanics - John Esposito (203) 459-9612. He is a British > transmission and O/D expert. He can rebuild your O/D to full race > specs. He is reasonable, honest and a very helpful guy. To shift faster > you will need to drill out the oil passages to increase the pressure > and you should install upgraded clutch packs. There are several > bearings that also need to be changed to handle the higher level of > stress. I'm running about 600 lbs. of pressure in mine and it shifts > very quickly! > > Allen > > On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > > > Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I > > seem > > to keep losing answers. > > > > I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 > > rpm. I > > am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have > > done to > > increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done > > to make > > shifting in and out quicker? > > > > Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone > > have > > good links for OD repair/enhancement? > > > > Thanks > > > > -- > > Chuck Arnold > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > awashatko at wi.rr.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > -- Chuck Arnold From koblinger at verizon.net Wed Oct 17 10:11:25 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:11:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA Message-ID: <30753818.5577081192637485898.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> You could also upload the photo to one of the free hosting sites like Imageshack. Then send everyone a link to the photo, like this.... http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4292/tr31441ln8.jpg Cheers, Kurt O. >From: herald948 at aol.com >Date: 2007/10/17 Wed AM 10:08:45 CDT >To: budscars at msn.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA >-----Original Message----- >From: RACER BUD > >Hello Gang..I'll try again..This photo is at Lime rock in 1965..photo >by Bill >Perry..It's in the 1966, july 4th national races program Tr3 driver >is Ken >Sloan..Volvo driver is Art Riley > > >==AM== >Bud, this list won't take attachments. Perhaps you could send it to >Mordy Dunst or Henry Frye and/or whoever takes care of the FoT web >site: ? > >--Andy Mace > >*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? >*Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, >Triumph Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > >Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph >Herald Database at its new URL: >________________________________________________________________________ >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - >http://mail.aol.com >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Wed Oct 17 10:46:09 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:46:09 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47163C51.9040406@bradakis.com> The Team.Net lists don't allow attachments, photos, virus programs, etc. in messages. Put the photo someplace like the Image Galleries at http://www.team.net/the-local mjb. From budscars at msn.com Wed Oct 17 11:10:03 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (CHARLES DELAUER) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 17:10:03 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA In-Reply-To: <8C9DEE6BF5C8AAC-A00-3C5A@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: hi gang...I'm not at home now. so I can't send it..I did send it to Mike Cook and to Kevin Lynch..maybe they can send it to some of you Racer bud >From: herald948 at aol.com >To: budscars at msn.com, fot at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA >Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:08:45 -0400 > >-----Original Message----- >From: RACER BUD > >Hello Gang..I'll try again..This photo is at Lime rock in 1965..photo by >Bill >Perry..It's in the 1966, july 4th national races program Tr3 driver is >Ken >Sloan..Volvo driver is Art Riley > > >==AM== >Bud, this list won't take attachments. Perhaps you could send it to Mordy >Dunst or Henry Frye and/or whoever takes care of the FoT web site: >? > >--Andy Mace > >*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? >*Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph >Herald engine with wings. >-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > >Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph >Herald Database at its new URL: >________________________________________________________________________ >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - >http://mail.aol.com From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Wed Oct 17 11:28:14 2007 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:28:14 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Emailing: 2002_0207AA References: <47163C51.9040406@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <004001c810e3$1a2a2790$08c85246@Elliott> When I had some photos of Bill Ames and his Ambro from 1996, I sent them to Mordy and he put them in the hisorical section on the FOT site for anyone to see. That's where these should go. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Bradakis" To: "fot" Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Fw: Emailing: 2002_0207AA > The Team.Net lists don't allow attachments, photos, virus programs, > etc. in messages. Put the photo someplace like the Image Galleries > at http://www.team.net/the-local > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > 58tr3a at videotron.ca > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cartravel at pobox.com Wed Oct 17 12:10:22 2007 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:10:22 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Increasing OD pressure In-Reply-To: <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> References: <8cbd782d0710150809h441591dfh4ef3728e40a8ad0a@mail.gmail.com> <701e7e6a325eb2440342a58aae3dc6b9@wi.rr.com> Message-ID: <4716500E.5090705@pobox.com> I'm not as familiar with the J-types as I am with the A-type, but doesn't the J-type pump only when you engage the overdrive? The shift delay is determined by how long it takes to pump up. If so, increasing the pressure will not make it shift faster. On the other hand, the A-type has an accumulator which holds a volume of pressurized oil, so it will shift faster with greater pressure. I've always thought the A-type with the large accumulator was the best choice for racing. Larry Allen Washatko wrote: > Chuck, > Try Quantum Mechanics - John Esposito (203) 459-9612. He is a British > transmission and O/D expert. He can rebuild your O/D to full race > specs. He is reasonable, honest and a very helpful guy. To shift faster > you will need to drill out the oil passages to increase the pressure > and you should install upgraded clutch packs. There are several > bearings that also need to be changed to handle the higher level of > stress. I'm running about 600 lbs. of pressure in mine and it shifts > very quickly! > > Allen > > On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > > >> Sorry to some of you whom I may have asked this question directly. I >> seem >> to keep losing answers. >> >> I have j-type ODs that will use in racing -- shifting at about 6000 >> rpm. I >> am rebuilding two units this winter. Want to know what people have >> done to >> increase the pressure in the j-type system. Also what has been done >> to make >> shifting in and out quicker? >> >> Will share the responses and write an article on my endeavors. Anyone >> have >> good links for OD repair/enhancement? >> >> Thanks >> >> -- >> Chuck Arnold >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> awashatko at wi.rr.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > cartravel at pobox.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Wed Oct 17 12:28:43 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 14:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination Peter Bulkowski In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Paul MacDonald wrote: > I would like to nominate Peter Bulkowski to FOT. SECOND I have to ponder the thought of having to rescue any of my former Triumphs... that would be quite a feat indeed! Welcome, Peter. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bownes at seiri.com Mon Oct 15 14:04:06 2007 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:04:06 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car In-Reply-To: <004701c80f64$0ee47aa0$6402a8c0@HOME> References: <395027.21742.qm@web57611.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <004701c80f64$0ee47aa0$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: Oscar Kovaleski used to drive his McLaren to/from Watkins Glen. It was apparently quite teh sight flying down Rt 17.... On 10/15/07, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote: > > My car before its way back home.... > > http://www.tr4-racing.de/pic/2005/zolder/zolder4_ex.JPG > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ernest Husmann > To: William G Rosenbach ; chris at tr4-racing.de > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 4:33 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Driving to the track in the race car > > > Stop it, please stop. All this talk about driving to the track just may > reverse a twenty year trend of bigger trailers and tow vehicles. If this > were > to happen do you know what would happen to the economy. Not to mention > the > day dreams that would affect the actions of young children. > wink wink nudge nudge > > William G Rosenbach wrote: > Driving your racecar to the track gives you a different mind set at > the > event, you can break your ride home. Trailering gives more peace of > mind, > knowing if you break it, you can still get home. I generally drove my > car > to vintage races. Once in a snow storm with no heat or wipers. > > Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has a member who last year celebrated > his > 100th RMVR event as a driver. Bill Miller drives his almost original, > stock, as delivered, Shelby GT-350 H to & from events. Packs > everything > he needs for the weekend in it, including Gerry Cans of fuel. This > summer, he drove it from Denver to Miller MSP in Utah. He ONLY runs it > on > race fuel, so no just stopping at the Mini-Mart. That 100 events does > NOT > include the about half again that many other events & track days he & > his > steed have participated in. I believe he has been towed home twice, in > all that time. > > Chek Beuf, an original owner of an original 427 Cobra, used to drive > it, > on race slicks, to the track. > We had several appearances by a TR-3 which pulled a trailer with its > race > tyres & support materials. > Original owner of an original Porsche 912 (looking like it just came > off > the showroom floor), has been driving to & from the track for years > now. > My car broke in Steamboat one year, Clive Averill loaded my car on his > trailer and I drove his GT-6 back to Denver (you cannot believe how > good > that 2 litre six sounds at full chat, with no muffler, in the Johnson > tunnel!). > > RMVR has an Historic Group, that encourages entries that are more what > the factory produced, not what can be built from the catalogs. We have > the Danny Colins Cup award, for that group. Points are awarded for > driving To & From the track. > > If the point of the exercise is to recreate, reenact, racing from > earlier > years, we would drive to & from the track, time with analog stop > watches. > Like that's going to happen. > > Bill > 70 GT-6+ > > On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:14:10 +0200 "Marx Christian tr4-racing" > writes: > > It not only me who is absolutly nuts and driving the expensive > racing > > car on > > its own wheels to the track....here is another one.....with some > > bucks more to > > spend... > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOE9sjsV15w > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > ehusmann53 at yahoo.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > bownes at web9.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chasgee at aol.com Tue Oct 16 08:09:33 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:09:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 In-Reply-To: <20071014180636.7C2F3187B01@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8C9DE154FF9E675-C10-1F81@webmail-me10.sysops.aol.com> Greg, Didn't see your post earlier regarding the VARA rules.? The VARA rules you are quoting are for what we call "group 1" cars, for competitors who wish to compete with nearly stock automobiles.? We have a few of those in the organization, but most prefer to set their cars up to the regular rule book.? Please look more closely at the rulebook and you will see what I mean. I disagree with your overall comments regarding your ability to be competitive.? Kreger built his TR6 for a reason, and can run it where he is from (Seattle area).? My car is built to VARA rules because that is where I'm from.? Funny thing is, there is really nothing fancy about mine, just changes to make it more reliable so that I can increase my seat time.? 12.5:1 compression, 0.055 over bore,?steel rods, massaged stock crankshaft (not stroked - not allowed by our rules)? 30 year old camshaft design (Kastner A-10) and roller rockers.? I do have an aluminum flywheel (built by Lee Mueller) and upraded stock clutch.? All steel body except for trunk lid and hood, upraded springs and shocks, welded diff, and fancy transmission (rules state that you must use the stock case and have the same number of forward gears, so I took a page from the Sprites and built a dog box using Hewland pieces and the Spitfire case.? I think Taylor sells these now).? Obviously, I also run Webers, but Kas thinks it would perform better with twin SUs.? Maybe I'll try that sometime.? My sucess has been from the ability to keep it together and maximize handling.? But the biggest improvement by far is from seat time.? Everyone keeps coming up and asking what I've done to the car to make it so fast.? I keep saying that I've just finally learned to drive it.? Also Greg, I distinctly remember that you were extremely competitive at Miller and a real thorn in my side.? Please don't take that as a negative comment, because I really enjoyed racing and hanging out with you.? I think the reason that was the case is because you've focussed on driving the car rather than maximizing your straightaway performance.? I strongly believe that you would be very competitive at any VARA race with the car as prepped for Miller.? I also stronlgy encourage you to refrain from further prep because, honestly, I don't want the hassle of dealing with you with a locked diff and good brakes! Chuck Gee Blacksmith Racing -----Original Message----- From: Keith Files To: 'Greg "Lunker" Hilyer' ; 'FOT' Sent: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 11:05 am Subject: Re: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Hi Greg, Happy to try to address the question of what it did leave the factory with in terms of body, chassis and transmission. The inner body tub has to be original in all respects i.e. all inner panels and bulkheads are standard (although there are some who replace the mild steel with aluminium but I do not) with a number of outer panels in glass fibre (light weight but not by much as the overall reduction in weight is minor 930 kgs as opposed to a street car of 1024 kgs.). No changes to the original silhouette are allowed. The use of glass fibre is preferred as the panels are easy and cheap to replace. The chassis is standard Triumph with all original suspension pick-up points (The rear trailing arms are standard Triumph as is all of the front suspension bar the springs and shocks). The engine block and head must be original and must be in their original location. The gearbox must use a Triumph casing; we use the Stag one as it is stronger but not lighter. The differential case is standard Triumph. Hope this helps. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg "Lunker" Hilyer Sent: 09 October 2007 05:13 To: FOT Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 Begin forwarded message: > From: "Greg \"Lunker\" Hilyer" > Date: October 8, 2007 10:11:14 PM MDT > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] KASTNER CUP CHALLENGE - WATKINS GLEN 2008 > >> >> FoTers, >> I think Henry Morrison will be as surprised as I, to find myself >> basically siding with him, as we've have had this discussion >> several times before. However... Personally, I encourage expanded >> eligibility for the sake of including later cars for bigger grids. >> A 1980 Spit for example, has no specific advantage to a earlier >> car as long as it is prepped to a specific GCR. >> Regarding your car Keith, and with no disrespect as for it's high >> level of preparation, wouldn't it be more concise to list what it >> DID leave the factory with? To me " All original steel panels >> except for GRP hood, trunk lid, drivers door, all 4 wings and >> hardtop " is like saying " all original car except for body, >> frame, engine and transmission". I don't even know what GRP is >> [glass, resin, something?] but it sounds light to me! As for the >> rest, over here, "trick", pertaining to racing, means state of >> the art [which your car sounds to be] - not >> "an act or scheme to out whit or deceive" {Webster} >> I guess I don't really understand what the Kastner Cup is based on >> - Someone please enlighten me. Again, no disrespect aimed at >> anyone, but when I went to Miller for the K.C. this year, I >> actually removed my drilled rotors [of dubious benefit] so there >> would be no question as to "The Spirit of Vintage". My set of dual >> Webers were and are on the shelf for the same reason. I have a >> welder but won't use it to "improve" my diff for the same reason. >> Most of the cars I raced with in Utah were from VARA who's rules >> read: >> >> Engine: >> >> Same type/size as year of manufacture (0.060" overbore limit). >> Period correct roller rocker arms are ok. No stud girdles. >> Compression Ratio is limited to 10 to 1 maximum unless it can be >> documented as higher from the factory as delivered for street >> use. Block and heads must be OEM and period correct. No aluminum >> flywheels. No dry sump oiling systems unless originally sold as >> such. Oil coolers and radiators are free but must not conflict >> with stock type appearance of body. >> >> >> Carburetion: >> Stock carb size and make per model series (same mfg & venturi >> count). No Weber DCOE sidedrafts where not originally equipped. >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------------------- >> >> Sorry guys, but I didn't see any cars in compliance with the >> exception of mine. And Nostalgia [host club] is even more strict >> [?] than VARA. The Kastner Cup race winning TR6 was [as graciously >> stated be the owner/driver] prepared to within an inch of it's >> life to SCCA specs. It also took a overall 1st in our run group >> [small bore - B]. If it wasn't for our "special" K.C. race, I >> doubt if Nostalgia would have allowed the car in a vintage event - >> not really fair to the others. >> Based on the recent discussion, I don't see how my Vintage prepped >> TR4 could possibly be competitive. Looks like my plans to attend >> Watkings Glen have changed - unless someone can promise rain! >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque N.M. keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca Wed Oct 17 15:54:03 2007 From: Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca (Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 17:54:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Peter Bulkowski Message-ID: Robert and Paul Thank you for the nomination and second. Hope to see you at the Glen or Mosport next year. Peter -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Lang [lang at isis.mit.edu] Sent: 10/17/2007 02:28 PM To: Paul MacDonald Cc: Fot ;Bulkowskip Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination Peter Bulkowski On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Paul MacDonald wrote: > I would like to nominate Peter Bulkowski to FOT. SECOND I have to ponder the thought of having to rescue any of my former Triumphs... that would be quite a feat indeed! Welcome, Peter. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Roadandtrack at bigpond.com Thu Oct 18 20:07:49 2007 From: Roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:07:49 +1000 Subject: [Fot] overdrive pressures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c811f4$d9b17fc0$0301010a@purplebox> Road & Track 66 Pine Mountain Road North Ipswich, Qld 4305 Ph 07 3201 8866 Fax 07 3201 7079 www.roadandtrack.net.au -----Original Message----- the response is governed by the internal dashpot valve springs and the "z" passage size. This is the tiny orifice going to the solenoid. You need to increase its size to about 3/32". You also need to reduce the clutch travel to about 0.30" by shimming it forward and making the same adjustment to the back bearing. This is very difficult with new clutches as they are commonly out of round. We re-machine them to make them perfect so we can handle such small clearances. The other upgrade is to fit a hardened steel insert where the sun gear squashes into the alloy clutch housing. Provided its not falling apart, the stock clutch lining is perfectly OK--it is used behind big V8's so no TR will ever worry it. There are several variations in the J type internally, so giving much more specific advice will require more info Terry O'Beirne From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Fri Oct 19 06:20:35 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:20:35 -0500 Subject: [Fot] That Loooong Race Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747C6571@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Any other FOTs intending to be at That Loooong Race this weekend at Blackhawk Farms? Scott From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 19 06:44:57 2007 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 05:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" Message-ID: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> AMICI Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" Thanks Dennis DeLap From budscars at msn.com Fri Oct 19 08:32:43 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:32:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Parts spitfire Message-ID: > thanks to SCOTT PILEDRIVER BROWN for this contact amashford at shaw.ca > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Brown" To: "RACER BUD" < > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:42 AM > Subject: Parts > > >> For Sale: Triumph Spitfire Mk1 and Mk2 parts >> >> I recently acquired a huge batch of parts for the above cars, almost >> enough >> to build four cars !! It includes 3 body tubs (one which has been walnut >> shell blasted and primer sealed) 5 bonnets, 5 boot lids, 8 doors, 4 >> engines >> and transmissions, and two rolling frames, and a big pile of everything >> else >> !! Even a fibreglass hardtop, without the back window for the early cars. >> Call me weekends at 360-599-2404 or weekdays at 604-870-9646 or email me >> with your needs amashford at shaw.ca I'll deal the sheet metal reasonable as >> I >> have no need for it, thank you. >> >> Andy From cak at dimebank.com Fri Oct 19 12:04:23 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:04:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] overdrive pressures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4718F1A7.4010706@dimebank.com> ---Original Message----- > the response is governed by the internal dashpot valve springs and the > "z" passage size. This is the tiny orifice going to the solenoid. You > need to increase its size to about 3/32". You also need to reduce the > clutch travel to about 0.30" by shimming it forward and making the same > adjustment to the back bearing. This is very difficult with new clutches > as they are commonly out of round. We re-machine them to make them > perfect so we can handle such small clearances. The other upgrade is to > fit a hardened steel insert where the sun gear squashes into the alloy > clutch housing. Provided its not falling apart, the stock clutch lining > is perfectly OK--it is used behind big V8's so no TR will ever worry it. > > There are several variations in the J type internally, so giving much > more specific advice will require more info > Terry O'Beirne > > > ------------------------------ Does anyone have similar modifications for a D type? I find that the one in my GT6+ tends to slip when it gets warm, no matter what sort or how heavy an oil I put into it... From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Tue Oct 9 16:36:10 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoffrey Byrne) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:36:10 +1000 Subject: [Fot] The Kastner Cup References: <004601c80a90$31883e80$5717c548@RW> Message-ID: <006201c80ac4$cb7c5510$41e3efdc@co3017577a> Kas You are always welcome to come to Australia for our annual All Triumph race and "go international" we can even arrange the Down Under Kastner Cup ( would it neeed to be upside down??) Eligibility of our cars for Historic classification is managed nationally controlled by the issue of a vehicle Log Book . Without an Historic Vehicle log book you dont get to race at an historic meeting. Mods are very limited all panels and mechicals must be OEM. We get mixed fields of 40-50 cars with very close racing right through the field. The All Triumph race is run at a non historic meeting to allow the modified cars to run with our historic vehicles . Regards Geoff Byrne TR6 Racer Down Under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:19 AM Subject: [Fot] The Kastner Cup > There is no mystery on the cup presentation. In the very beginning I wanted to > offer this cup to participants that had Triumph cars that were excellent > examples of presentation & preparation, the driver an advocate and involved > person in Vintage type racing and results from the Triumph competition on the > track. The values being approximately 25%, 25% and 50%. > > There are two provisions: > > 1. No driver can win the cup in consecutive years. > 2. The cup is to be awarded once each year and moved around the country to > give opportunity to as many drivers as possible and a venue agreed > by the overall Triumph participants. In general it is East Coast, Central > Area and West Coast on a rotation basis. This has given us to date: > Mosport, Ontario Canada, Buttonwillow California, Atlanta Raceway, > Georgia, Hallet, Oklahoma, and the last, Miller Park, Utah. > > Too date race winners have been chosen three out of five events, DNF > occurrences in the race event and other entanglements during the race did take > some possible winners out of contention three times. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gkbyrne at optushome.com.au > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Fri Oct 19 19:28:46 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:28:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" In-Reply-To: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20071020013257.VGFV13814.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Isky website is showing no info available http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html Intake 40-80 Exhaust 80-40 Valve Lift .480 Valve Lash Hot .028 Duration 300 degrees At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >AMICI > > Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" > > Thanks > Dennis DeLap >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >dave at microworks.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Fri Oct 19 21:23:44 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:23:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" References: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20071020013257.VGFV13814.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: <00c501c812c8$9ec68a70$0a10c548@RW> Just as an observation, but .028" sounds like a lot. ---- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:28 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] ISKY "777" > Isky website is showing no info available > > http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 > > But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: > > http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html > > Intake 40-80 > Exhaust 80-40 > Valve Lift .480 > Valve Lash Hot .028 > Duration 300 degrees > > > At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >>AMICI >> >> Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" >> >> Thanks >> Dennis DeLap >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Sat Oct 20 07:18:03 2007 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" In-Reply-To: <00c501c812c8$9ec68a70$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <619946.21361.qm@web81706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks to all for their "Isky" input. I got this 777 cam from our friend Irv Korey - he had a bunch of extra race parts in his warehouse. Sounds like it is alot like the Kastner "F" cam - identical duration anyway. .........and Kas the .028 does seem extreme - alot of slop. Another question - I have been building my engines with compression ratios in the 10.7 to 1 range. I notice that the competition manual asks for a minimum of 11.7 to 1. How important is this to the function of the race cam? Dennis Kas Kastner wrote: Just as an observation, but .028" sounds like a lot. ---- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:28 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] ISKY "777" > Isky website is showing no info available > > http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 > > But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: > > http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html > > Intake 40-80 > Exhaust 80-40 > Valve Lift .480 > Valve Lash Hot .028 > Duration 300 degrees > > > At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >>AMICI >> >> Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" >> >> Thanks >> Dennis DeLap >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From S.Janzen at comcast.net Sat Oct 20 07:48:16 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 09:48:16 -0400 Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" References: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20071020013257.VGFV13814.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: <000a01c8131f$de6dc970$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Seems high to me too, but my Crane grind calls for .028 intake and .030 exh hot. I was running less but when I adjusted to this the valve train quieted down a lot . ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] ISKY "777" > Isky website is showing no info available > > http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 > > But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: > > http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html > > Intake 40-80 > Exhaust 80-40 > Valve Lift .480 > Valve Lash Hot .028 > Duration 300 degrees > > > At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >>AMICI >> >> Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" >> >> Thanks >> Dennis DeLap >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Sat Oct 20 08:54:55 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 09:54:55 -0500 Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" In-Reply-To: <619946.21361.qm@web81706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <619946.21361.qm@web81706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dennis, I ran my cam grinder's recommendation of .020 intake and .022 exhaust and ended up with hammered valve stems. I now run .015 intake and .016 exhaust with good results. CR is 11.8:1. Allen On Oct 20, 2007, at 8:18 AM, Dennis DeLap wrote: > Thanks to all for their "Isky" input. > > I got this 777 cam from our friend Irv Korey - he had a bunch of > extra race parts in his warehouse. Sounds like it is alot like the > Kastner "F" cam - identical duration anyway. > > .........and Kas the .028 does seem extreme - alot of slop. > > Another question - I have been building my engines with compression > ratios in the 10.7 to 1 range. I notice that the competition manual > asks for a minimum of 11.7 to 1. How important is this to the > function of the race cam? > > Dennis > > Kas Kastner wrote: > Just as an observation, but .028" sounds like a lot. > > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "David W. Riddle" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] ISKY "777" > > >> Isky website is showing no info available >> >> http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 >> >> But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: >> >> http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html >> >> Intake 40-80 >> Exhaust 80-40 >> Valve Lift .480 >> Valve Lash Hot .028 >> Duration 300 degrees >> >> >> At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >>> AMICI >>> >>> Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" >>> >>> Thanks >>> Dennis DeLap >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> dave at microworks.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > yellow-green at sbcglobal.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > awashatko at wi.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From Fubog1 at aol.com Sat Oct 20 09:31:42 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:31:42 EDT Subject: [Fot] ISKY "777" Message-ID: The running clearance for any particular profile is a critical part of the overall design. It's based largely on accelerations (both ways) & if the clearance ramp isn't correct there will be conflicting forces in the valve train, & resultant wear/breakage. I advise following cam manufacturers specs. Assuming that weights, geometry, ratio, materials, etc are all to spec, this will give the best results. FWIW... Glen In a message dated 10/20/2007 10:56:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: Dennis, I ran my cam grinder's recommendation of .020 intake and .022 exhaust and ended up with hammered valve stems. I now run .015 intake and .016 exhaust with good results. CR is 11.8:1. Allen On Oct 20, 2007, at 8:18 AM, Dennis DeLap wrote: > Thanks to all for their "Isky" input. > > I got this 777 cam from our friend Irv Korey - he had a bunch of > extra race parts in his warehouse. Sounds like it is alot like the > Kastner "F" cam - identical duration anyway. > > .........and Kas the .028 does seem extreme - alot of slop. > > Another question - I have been building my engines with compression > ratios in the 10.7 to 1 range. I notice that the competition manual > asks for a minimum of 11.7 to 1. How important is this to the > function of the race cam? > > Dennis > > Kas Kastner wrote: > Just as an observation, but .028" sounds like a lot. > > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "David W. Riddle" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] ISKY "777" > > >> Isky website is showing no info available >> >> http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php?catid=127&engine_id=306 >> >> But the online catalog for the TR-777 says: >> >> http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html >> >> Intake 40-80 >> Exhaust 80-40 >> Valve Lift .480 >> Valve Lash Hot .028 >> Duration 300 degrees >> >> >> At 05:44 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote: >>> AMICI >>> >>> Does anyone have cam timing and spec info for the Iskenderian "777" >>> >>> Thanks >>> Dennis DeLap >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> dave at microworks.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > yellow-green at sbcglobal.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > awashatko at wi.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 fubog1 at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From hottr6 at hotmail.com Sat Oct 20 18:31:45 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:31:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] ISky 777 Message-ID: For more stuff on TR6 cams than you care to know, check out http://triumph.hottr6.com/tr6cams.html. Most cam manufacturers do not give out the all important lobe center which I have computed for each cam assuming symmetry. Shane Ingate, relaxin' after a nice drive in the NM mountains. _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Sat Oct 20 22:43:53 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 21:43:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure Message-ID: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on the front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended air pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. Jim Hearn Sacramento, CA Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 21 00:42:21 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:42:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure In-Reply-To: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> References: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <53BE8E86-7E17-4B77-870E-E1C8D9D54F2A@bnj.com> It would depend on how the car is sprung and how the suspension is set up, but it's fairly common for production based cars to work best with a little more rear tire pressure than front. Especially if you are running radial tires. If only because you can add a little camber in the front, but not so easy to do that in the back (not impossible, just not easy). On Oct 20, 2007, at 9:43 PM, jim hearn wrote: > It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little > higher on the > front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory > recommended air > pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for > "high > speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the > rear > than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the > TR6 with > race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. > > Jim Hearn > Sacramento, CA > Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef > which had a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Oct 21 08:50:21 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:50:21 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure References: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <000e01c813f1$b5e5c700$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> I'm still early in learning how best to set up my TR4A but I have found that 30 front and 31.5 rear works OK with Hoosier Speedsters on my car. I started our 30 all across and gradually upped the rears. Without the lower front pressures turn in was too light. I had the car weighed the last time out and I'm going to do some adjustments so my pressures may be meaningless to someone else. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:43 PM Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure > It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on > the > front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended > air > pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high > speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear > than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with > race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. > > Jim Hearn > Sacramento, CA > Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Sun Oct 21 11:34:07 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:34:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship Message-ID: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite unexpected World Championship for Kimi. Joe C. From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 21 12:24:32 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:24:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship In-Reply-To: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and champagne. On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite > unexpected > World Championship for Kimi. > > > > Joe C. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 15:12:19 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:12:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship In-Reply-To: References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and 3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his karting. He was running a KT100 Here is the Hamilton Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >champagne. > >On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > > > What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite > > unexpected > > World Championship for Kimi. > > > > > > > > Joe C. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > billb at bnj.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >dave at microworks.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr5racer at btinternet.com Sun Oct 21 15:50:06 2007 From: tr5racer at btinternet.com (JOSEPH HUGHES) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:50:06 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship Message-ID: <144981.47393.qm@web86615.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Great race but a bad result for us Brits especially as we lost the Rugby World Cup Final yesterday as well. In my opinion Lewis should have tied up the title in China when, had the team changed his tyres earlier, he would not have gone into the gravel entering the pitlane. I also do not understand why they the team opted for a 3 stop strategy in todays race as I believe that cost him a higher place finish. But then again I am biased as his grandfathers a friend of mine! Mike Hughes --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. From chris at tr4-racing.de Sun Oct 21 16:51:01 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 00:51:01 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure Message-ID: Jim, I run more pressure on the front tires because the rear tires heat more up than the front ones....I'm around 24 psi. Cheers Chris It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on the front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended air pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. Jim Hearn Sacramento, CA Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html tony at tonydrews.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sun Oct 21 17:11:00 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:11:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <002d01c81437$a533eea0$0a10c548@RW> In my days of hard racing I found that a different pressure in each tire was required, depending on the track and which way it turned the most. My thought on this is do not be afraid to TRY something. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship > Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the > season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and > 3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. > > Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to > put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. > > For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at > Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his > karting. He was running a KT100 > > Here is the Hamilton Video > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g > > Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s > > At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >>champagne. >> >>On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: >> >> > What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite >> > unexpected >> > World Championship for Kimi. >> > >> > >> > >> > Joe C. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > http://www.team.net/donate.html >> > >> > billb at bnj.com >> > Fot mailing list >> > Fot at autox.team.net >> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tony at tonydrews.com Sun Oct 21 17:15:22 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:15:22 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure In-Reply-To: <000e01c813f1$b5e5c700$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> <000e01c813f1$b5e5c700$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <20071021231601.7556C1879D3@autox.team.net> I run about 10 psi lower with the speedsters, and have the rears a pound or two lower than the front - with my sideways car, they end up close at the end of the race. But, this is in a solid axle car with 0 rear camber. - Tony At 09:50 AM 10/21/2007, BOB KRAMER wrote: >I'm still early in learning how best to set up my TR4A but I have found that >30 front and 31.5 rear works OK with Hoosier Speedsters on my car. I started >our 30 all across and gradually upped the rears. Without the lower front >pressures turn in was too light. I had the car weighed the last time out and >I'm going to do some adjustments so my pressures may be meaningless to >someone else. > >Bob Kramer >rkramer3 at austin.rr.com >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jim hearn" >To: >Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:43 PM >Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure > > > > It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on > > the > > front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended > > air > > pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high > > speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear > > than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with > > race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Jim Hearn > > Sacramento, CA > > Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) > > > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > > a name of winmail.dat] > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >tony at tonydrews.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sun Oct 21 17:23:36 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:23:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> Apparently Hamilton's car went into neutral on corner four (for no known reason) and then it was a struggle to get it to work again. Kimi, YES!!!!!. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship > Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the > season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and > 3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. > > Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to > put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. > > For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at > Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his > karting. He was running a KT100 > > Here is the Hamilton Video > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g > > Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s > > At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >>champagne. >> >>On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: >> >> > What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite >> > unexpected >> > World Championship for Kimi. >> > >> > >> > >> > Joe C. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > http://www.team.net/donate.html >> > >> > billb at bnj.com >> > Fot mailing list >> > Fot at autox.team.net >> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>dave at microworks.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 21 17:38:12 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:38:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship In-Reply-To: <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. I don't think it makes sense to say someone deserves a win--if they win, they deserve it. But Kimi certainly had a break coming. Nice to see him finally get one. On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > Apparently Hamilton's car went into neutral on corner four (for no > known > reason) and then it was a struggle to get it to work again. Kimi, > YES!!!!!. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David W. Riddle" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:12 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship > > >> Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the >> season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and >> 3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. >> >> Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to >> put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. >> >> For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at >> Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his >> karting. He was running a KT100 >> >> Here is the Hamilton Video >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g >> >> Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s >> >> At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>> Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >>> champagne. >>> >>> On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: >>> >>>> What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite >>>> unexpected >>>> World Championship for Kimi. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Joe C. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> billb at bnj.com >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot at autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> dave at microworks.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Sun Oct 21 17:51:52 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:51:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship In-Reply-To: <144981.47393.qm@web86615.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <144981.47393.qm@web86615.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c8143d$5acc05e0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> As the Speed Channel Talking heads proclaimed, "There is a good reason why a rookie has never won the F1 World Championship!" In this case it was a couple of rookie mistakes that cost Lewis the title. The first one as you describe was at China when Lewis should have been liking to finish in at least 5th place to lock up the title. Instead, he lost sight of the bigger picture and let his competitive juices overcome him and he was trying to finish first. The second was at today's race where he tried off the bat to get back around Alonzo and went off the track. I can't say, but it appears to me that excursion may have damaged his electronics which cost him a number of places a few laps later and ended up costing him any chance of finishing high enough to recover the championship lead. I am a Ferrari fan myself but I was secretly rooting for Lewis because I think like Tiger Woods is for golf he is good for F1 and has shown that he has the talent to be a champion. Hopefully, he will also soon have the maturity to complete the task. Cheers, Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of JOSEPH HUGHES Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:50 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship Great race but a bad result for us Brits especially as we lost the Rugby World Cup Final yesterday as well. In my opinion Lewis should have tied up the title in China when, had the team changed his tyres earlier, he would not have gone into the gravel entering the pitlane. I also do not understand why they the team opted for a 3 stop strategy in todays race as I believe that cost him a higher place finish. But then again I am biased as his grandfathers a friend of mine! Mike Hughes --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 17:52:50 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:52:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers standings where they are. At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, >and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. > >I don't think it makes sense to say someone deserves a win--if they >win, they deserve it. But Kimi certainly had a break coming. Nice to >see him finally get one. > >On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > >>Apparently Hamilton's car went into neutral on corner four (for no >>known >>reason) and then it was a struggle to get it to work again. Kimi, >>YES!!!!!. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "David W. Riddle" >>To: >>Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:12 PM >>Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship >> >> >>>Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the >>>season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and >>>3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. >>> >>>Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to >>>put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. >>> >>>For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at >>>Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his >>>karting. He was running a KT100 >>> >>>Here is the Hamilton Video >>> >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g >>> >>>Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 >>> >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s >>> >>>At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>>>Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >>>>champagne. >>>> >>>>On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: >>>> >>>>>What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite >>>>>unexpected >>>>>World Championship for Kimi. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Joe C. >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>>> >>>>>billb at bnj.com >>>>>Fot mailing list >>>>>Fot at autox.team.net >>>>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>>dave at microworks.net >>>>Fot mailing list >>>>Fot at autox.team.net >>>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>>_______________________________________________ >>>http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>>kaskas at cox.net >>>Fot mailing list >>>Fot at autox.team.net >>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>billb at bnj.com >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 21 18:04:41 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:04:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in > doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton > up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would > be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers > standings where they are. > > At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >> rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, >> and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. From spitlist at cox.net Sun Oct 21 18:14:56 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:14:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW><3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com><20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> Message-ID: <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> According to the F1 web site, "The BMW Sauber and Williams teams have escaped penalty after being investigated by Brazilian Grand Prix stewards over fuel irregularities on their cars at the end of Sunday's Interlagos race." So if this is indeed right, your hope has been confirmed! Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:05 PM To: David W. Riddle Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in > doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton > up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would > be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers > standings where they are. > > At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >> rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, >> and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 18:13:35 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:13:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20071022001754.WUFD15556.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> The issue seems to be that the sampled fuel at impound was below the allowed ambient temperature deviation. If they will tear the cars down and discover illegal fuel cooling devices then Williams and BMW should be penalized. Will/Should the penalty affect just the team or both the team and the drivers? I'm sure Kimi and Lewis are watching the developments with great interest. At 05:04 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to >active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards >seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. > > >On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > >>Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in >>doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton >>up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would >>be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers >>standings where they are. >> >>At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>>It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >>>rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, >>>and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 18:20:22 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:20:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> formula1.com (the official site) is not yet reporting this result and neither is f1i.com (kinda an "outlaw" site). SpeedTV's website is saying that they were not penalized. Would be interesting to know how the fuel in the tank was 14 degrees cooler than the ambient air? Kas any suggestions? I'm sure other racers would like to know how to cool their fuel on hot days. At 05:14 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >According to the F1 web site, "The BMW Sauber and Williams teams >have escaped penalty after being investigated by Brazilian Grand >Prix stewards over fuel irregularities on their cars at the end of >Sunday's Interlagos race." > >So if this is indeed right, your hope has been confirmed! > >Joe > > >-----Original Message----- >From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net >[mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:05 PM >To: David W. Riddle >Cc: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! > >I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to >active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards >seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. > > >On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > > > Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in > > doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton > > up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would > > be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers > > standings where they are. > > > > At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: > >> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was > >> rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, > >> and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >spitlist at cox.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From koblinger at verizon.net Sun Oct 21 19:04:46 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:04:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <471BF72E.6020607@verizon.net> Could be that the fuel was chilled in the refueling rig thinking that the fuel would warm up to within the allowable temp range in the car by the time it had to be measured. In the Trans-Am days Roger Penske's team used to put dry ice in the refueling rig to chill the fuel. Cold fuel is more dense, takes up less space so you essentially get more fuel per gallon. At one Trans-Am race the cars unexpectedly had to run an extra pace lap or two and the Penske boys were really worried the fuel tank in Donohue's Camaro would split from the cold fuel expanding faster than it could be used. Just one more "Unfair Advantage". Cheers, Kurt O. David W. Riddle wrote: >formula1.com (the official site) is not yet reporting this result and >neither is f1i.com (kinda an "outlaw" site). SpeedTV's website is >saying that they were not penalized. > >Would be interesting to know how the fuel in the tank was 14 degrees >cooler than the ambient air? > >Kas any suggestions? I'm sure other racers would like to know how to >cool their fuel on hot days. From budscars at msn.com Sun Oct 21 19:50:46 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:50:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW><3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com><20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com><000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <471BF72E.6020607@verizon.net> Message-ID: Boy Oh Boy..I remember That Stuff....Those Were The Days! Racer Bud in Sonoma, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kurt Oblinger" To: "David W. Riddle" ; "FOT" Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! > Could be that the fuel was chilled in the refueling rig thinking that > the fuel would warm up to within the allowable temp range in the car by > the time it had to be measured. In the Trans-Am days Roger Penske's team > used to put dry ice in the refueling rig to chill the fuel. Cold fuel is > more dense, takes up less space so you essentially get more fuel per > gallon. At one Trans-Am race the cars unexpectedly had to run an extra > pace lap or two and the Penske boys were really worried the fuel tank in > Donohue's Camaro would split from the cold fuel expanding faster than it > could be used. Just one more "Unfair Advantage". > > Cheers, > Kurt O. > > David W. Riddle wrote: > >>formula1.com (the official site) is not yet reporting this result and >>neither is f1i.com (kinda an "outlaw" site). SpeedTV's website is >>saying that they were not penalized. >> >>Would be interesting to know how the fuel in the tank was 14 degrees >>cooler than the ambient air? >> >>Kas any suggestions? I'm sure other racers would like to know how to >>cool their fuel on hot days. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > budscars at msn.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 21 21:10:48 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:10:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> It wasn't the fuel in the car, it was the fuel being delivered by the fueling rig, They are allowed to have cooling, in fact all teams do, but they have to stay within a specific range of ambient. The brouhaha is that they BMW and Williams teams were a few degrees cooler than they were supposed to be. The mitigating circumstance is that the officially measured ambient temperature and the unofficially measured ambient were further apart than at any event this year. The stewards initially decided not to apply a penalty, but their reasoning had to do with technical issues that they are not qualified to determine. So the potential for a change in the championship still exists--McLaren has filed a protest and it will need to be considered. On Oct 21, 2007, at 5:20 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > formula1.com (the official site) is not yet reporting this result and > neither is f1i.com (kinda an "outlaw" site). SpeedTV's website is > saying that they were not penalized. > > Would be interesting to know how the fuel in the tank was 14 degrees > cooler than the ambient air? > > Kas any suggestions? I'm sure other racers would like to know how to > cool their fuel on hot days. > > At 05:14 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >> According to the F1 web site, "The BMW Sauber and Williams teams >> have escaped penalty after being investigated by Brazilian Grand >> Prix stewards over fuel irregularities on their cars at the end of >> Sunday's Interlagos race." >> >> So if this is indeed right, your hope has been confirmed! >> >> Joe >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net >> [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of >> Bill Babcock >> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:05 PM >> To: David W. Riddle >> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! >> >> I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to >> active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards >> seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. >> >> >> On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: >> >>> Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in >>> doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton >>> up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points >>> would >>> be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers >>> standings where they are. >>> >>> At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>>> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >>>> rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a >>>> change, >>>> and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> spitlist at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sun Oct 21 22:32:30 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 21:32:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW><3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com><20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com><000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <007e01c81464$8f37c0e0$0a10c548@RW> Come on!!!! Cool fuel, Only since the middle ages. We ALWAYS did this. On my Vitesse (1972) I had a cool can in the engine compartment that was full of ice and cooled the fuel before it went to the carbs. Not quite as effective as in the tank, but then it was within the regulations. We tried in every way possible with the GTP cars to keep the fuel cool (and the tires hot). Some tricks were never found. This is what we did for a LIVING. We paid attention. The F-1 guys are more than that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Riddle" To: Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! > formula1.com (the official site) is not yet reporting this result and > neither is f1i.com (kinda an "outlaw" site). SpeedTV's website is > saying that they were not penalized. > > Would be interesting to know how the fuel in the tank was 14 degrees > cooler than the ambient air? > > Kas any suggestions? I'm sure other racers would like to know how to > cool their fuel on hot days. > > At 05:14 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>According to the F1 web site, "The BMW Sauber and Williams teams >>have escaped penalty after being investigated by Brazilian Grand >>Prix stewards over fuel irregularities on their cars at the end of >>Sunday's Interlagos race." >> >>So if this is indeed right, your hope has been confirmed! >> >>Joe >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net >>[mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill >>Babcock >>Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:05 PM >>To: David W. Riddle >>Cc: fot at autox.team.net >>Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! >> >>I certainly hope that isn't true. The stewards have been far to >>active this year. The rules read like the tax code and the stewards >>seem to enjoy influencing the outcome of a races. >> >> >>On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:52 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: >> >> > Report that Stewards are investing and Kimi's Championship may be in >> > doubt. Williams and BMW may be DQ which would move Hamilton >> > up. However, another report is that maybe Constructor's points would >> > be taken and not Drivers points which would leave the drivers >> > standings where they are. >> > >> > At 04:38 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >> >> It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was >> >> rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, >> >> and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>spitlist at cox.net >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 23:33:12 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:33:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Bill, it was the fuel in the cars and not in the fueling rig. http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41157 "...After Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix the stewards analysed fuel samples taken from the Williams and BMW cars during their pit stops, which appeared to show temperatures outside the permitted range..." At 08:10 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >It wasn't the fuel in the car, it was the fuel being delivered by the >fueling rig, They are allowed to have cooling, in fact all teams do, >but they have to stay within a specific range of ambient. The >brouhaha is that they BMW and Williams teams were a few degrees >cooler than they were supposed to be. The mitigating circumstance is >that the officially measured ambient temperature and the unofficially >measured ambient were further apart than at any event this year. The >stewards initially decided not to apply a penalty, but their >reasoning had to do with technical issues that they are not qualified >to determine. So the potential for a change in the championship still >exists--McLaren has filed a protest and it will need to be considered. From dave at microworks.net Sun Oct 21 23:33:31 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:33:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume In-Reply-To: <007e01c81464$8f37c0e0$0a10c548@RW> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <007e01c81464$8f37c0e0$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <20071022053749.BEWP15556.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> With the controversy from the F1 race today and the possible cooling of fuel by BMW and Williams and the idea of cooling the fuel to get it to take up less volume got me thinking. Next month on the 25th my Son will have a 45 minute Endurance race on his 125 shifter at Firebird Main. Normally there is no way that a fuel hungry "built" 125 shifter motor can go that distance on the single 9 liter tank that we are allowed to run. The fuel rules as presented for this race. --------------- * No mandatory stops. * 9 liter maximum fuel capacity (2.37 gallons) for TAG and Shifter groups. This is equal to the largest normally available plastic tanks. * No unusual fuel line or filter set ups. * No auxiliary fuel tanks. * Recommended that no more than 1 gallon be added when refueling. * No pressurized refueling systems. --------------- Now, the supplemental rules do not say anything about cooling the fuel and the normal rules only address the use of prohibited cooling "systems". I'm thinking I ought to take a chance a fill a container with our mixed fuel and keep it in an ice cooler until just before the race. After qualifying drain the tank. Push the kart to grid and then fill the tank there on the grid just before time to push off for the race. Think the increased density of the chilled fuel would make a measurable difference in the capacity that I'm talking about? If so this seems like it might be in the best tradition of Mark Donahue. No fuel gauge on a kart and once the level drops below a certain volume the driver can't see how much fuel is left in the tank. I'm planning on testing during practice and qualifying to see if I can check his fuel level with binoculars so that I can determine if I need to hang a sign to pit for fuel. From spitlist at cox.net Sun Oct 21 23:46:49 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:46:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume In-Reply-To: <20071022053749.BEWP15556.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW><3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com><20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com><000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><007e01c81464$8f37c0e0$0a10c548@RW> <20071022053749.BEWP15556.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: <001801c8146e$f0bc27c0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Do they allow you to spray foam onto the outside of the tank? If so, then you should go to the hardware store and get a can of polyurethane foam then spray a coating all around it. That will keep it cool longer and hopefully avoid expansion that might cause the tank to overflow. A float in the tank connected to a light (ala MGTD) might be a way for him to know that he is running low in case the cool fuel doesn't allow him to go the full distance. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David W. Riddle Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 10:34 PM To: fot at autox.team.net; wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com; william.r.riddle at usmc.mil; ssedmonds at cox.net; scott at microworks.net; members at dctra.org Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume With the controversy from the F1 race today and the possible cooling of fuel by BMW and Williams and the idea of cooling the fuel to get it to take up less volume got me thinking. Next month on the 25th my Son will have a 45 minute Endurance race on his 125 shifter at Firebird Main. Normally there is no way that a fuel hungry "built" 125 shifter motor can go that distance on the single 9 liter tank that we are allowed to run. The fuel rules as presented for this race. --------------- * No mandatory stops. * 9 liter maximum fuel capacity (2.37 gallons) for TAG and Shifter groups. This is equal to the largest normally available plastic tanks. * No unusual fuel line or filter set ups. * No auxiliary fuel tanks. * Recommended that no more than 1 gallon be added when refueling. * No pressurized refueling systems. --------------- Now, the supplemental rules do not say anything about cooling the fuel and the normal rules only address the use of prohibited cooling "systems". I'm thinking I ought to take a chance a fill a container with our mixed fuel and keep it in an ice cooler until just before the race. After qualifying drain the tank. Push the kart to grid and then fill the tank there on the grid just before time to push off for the race. Think the increased density of the chilled fuel would make a measurable difference in the capacity that I'm talking about? If so this seems like it might be in the best tradition of Mark Donahue. No fuel gauge on a kart and once the level drops below a certain volume the driver can't see how much fuel is left in the tank. I'm planning on testing during practice and qualifying to see if I can check his fuel level with binoculars so that I can determine if I need to hang a sign to pit for fuel. spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Mon Oct 22 00:13:38 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:13:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW><3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com><20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com><000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer><20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <001901c81472$afafa410$2202a8c0@newcomputer> I am wondering how the fuel samples are taken from the cars during pit stops. With all the mechanics hovering over the cars changing tires and refueling, I can't see how any race officials can possibly take samples from the car. (Some of them can't even stay out of the way of certain drivers.) I would believe that they take samples from the rig shortly after refueling but not from the car. I just can't see how that would be possible. I wait eagerly to see how this develops and think that if the McLaren protest does take place and upheld, putting Lewis into the championship; there will be a major outcrying from a host of people. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David W. Riddle Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 10:33 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! Bill, it was the fuel in the cars and not in the fueling rig. http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41157 "...After Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix the stewards analysed fuel samples taken from the Williams and BMW cars during their pit stops, which appeared to show temperatures outside the permitted range..." At 08:10 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >It wasn't the fuel in the car, it was the fuel being delivered by the >fueling rig, They are allowed to have cooling, in fact all teams do, >but they have to stay within a specific range of ambient. The >brouhaha is that they BMW and Williams teams were a few degrees >cooler than they were supposed to be. The mitigating circumstance is >that the officially measured ambient temperature and the unofficially >measured ambient were further apart than at any event this year. The >stewards initially decided not to apply a penalty, but their >reasoning had to do with technical issues that they are not qualified >to determine. So the potential for a change in the championship still >exists--McLaren has filed a protest and it will need to be considered. spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 22 00:14:18 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:14:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <9D2354BD-FFDA-46EE-8F42-580B6EB4B66B@bnj.com> Actually, you're wrong, and that's part of the steward's decision. The FIA samples the fuel during pits stops. They don't take it from the car, they take it from the fueling rig. Article 6.5.5 of the F1 technical rules state that, No fuel on board the car may be more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient temperature. The FIA have now confirmed that the trios fuel temperatures were outside the permitted temperatures, saying the fuel was more than 10 degrees below the ambient temperature. In a statement, it has been revealed that during his first pit-stop, Heidfelds fuel temperature was 13 degrees lower than the ambient temperature, and during his second stop, his fuel was 12 degrees lower. Robert Kubicas pit-stops have revealed that his temperatures were 14 degrees, 13 degrees and 13 degrees out respectively. Nico Rosbergs fuel temperatures were 13 and 12 degrees out. It has also been revealed that the second BMW of Kazuki Nakajima also had fuel temperature irregularities  his fuel was 12 degrees out on the first stop, however his fuel temperatures were within regulations on his second stop. The air temperature during the race averaged 37 degrees, while track temperatures topped a record 64 degrees. The stewards stated in their finding that they have no precise reading of the fuel on board the car, and that since the only temperatures they have available are from the fueling rigs, that the measurements don't fit the requirements of the regulation which states the "fuel on board can be no more than ten degrees cooler than ambient." Fuel rig temperature is not a completely accurate indication of the temperature on board, which is the how the regulation reads. This seems to be a pretty clear decision even if it rests on a technical point that the stewards are not really qualified to make. But they unfortunately clouded the issue by also saying that the definition of ambient was only assumed to be the temperature indicated on the F1 management timing monitors but there was a large discrepancy between the FOM ambient and the meteorologists that the teams contract with, and the regulation does not clearly state that the FOM number is definitive. The stewards conclusion was that there is sufficient doubt as to both the temperature of the fuel actually on board and as to the true ambient temperature to render it inappropriate to impose a penalty On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:33 PM, David W. Riddle wrote: > Bill, it was the fuel in the cars and not in the fueling rig. > > http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41157 > > "...After Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix the stewards analysed fuel > samples taken from the Williams and BMW cars during their pit stops, > which appeared to show temperatures outside the permitted range..." > > At 08:10 PM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >> It wasn't the fuel in the car, it was the fuel being delivered by the >> fueling rig, They are allowed to have cooling, in fact all teams do, >> but they have to stay within a specific range of ambient. The >> brouhaha is that they BMW and Williams teams were a few degrees >> cooler than they were supposed to be. The mitigating circumstance is >> that the officially measured ambient temperature and the unofficially >> measured ambient were further apart than at any event this year. The >> stewards initially decided not to apply a penalty, but their >> reasoning had to do with technical issues that they are not qualified >> to determine. So the potential for a change in the championship still >> exists--McLaren has filed a protest and it will need to be >> considered. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 22 00:18:30 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:18:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! In-Reply-To: <29E7EBF5-82A6-4815-B8FC-CB882FEED013@bnj.com> References: <000701c81408$9582f2a0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071021211636.WYND22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <004501c81439$67f303d0$0a10c548@RW> <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> <20071021235726.DMKJ15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4278BDFA-3AF5-4290-A4BA-CDB704F68B23@bnj.com> <000101c81440$93f86090$2202a8c0@newcomputer> <20071022002451.ZIJG22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <2766BE63-3175-448F-9192-F7D52F2E7679@bnj.com> <20071022053732.ICID15207.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <9D2354BD-FFDA-46EE-8F42-580B6EB4B66B@bnj.com> <29E7EBF5-82A6-4815-B8FC-CB882FEED013@bnj.com> Message-ID: <84A5481B-BBED-4B75-BCCF-5798ED5860DE@bnj.com> Oops, jammed up by the message size limit. Let's try this: On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:16 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I should have put quotes around this section > On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:14 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> Actually, you're wrong, and that's part of the steward's decision. >> The FIA samples the fuel during pits stops. They don't take it from >> the car, they take it from the fueling rig. >> >> >>>"Article 6.5.5 of the F1 technical rules state that, No fuel >> on board >> the car may be more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient >> temperature. The FIA have now confirmed that the trios fuel >> temperatures were outside the permitted temperatures, saying the fuel >> was more than 10 degrees below the ambient temperature. >> >> In a statement, it has been revealed that during his first pit-stop, >> Heidfelds fuel temperature was 13 degrees lower than the ambient >> temperature, and during his second stop, his fuel was 12 degrees >> lower. >> >> Robert Kubicas pit-stops have revealed that his temperatures were 14 >> degrees, 13 degrees and 13 degrees out respectively. Nico Rosbergs >> fuel temperatures were 13 and 12 degrees out. >> >> It has also been revealed that the second BMW of Kazuki Nakajima also >> had fuel temperature irregularities  his fuel was 12 degrees out on >> the first stop, however his fuel temperatures were within regulations >> on his second stop. The air temperature during the race averaged 37 >> degrees, while track temperatures topped a record 64 degrees."<<< >> >> The stewards stated in their finding that they have no precise >> reading of the fuel on board the car, and that since the only >> temperatures they have available are from the fueling rigs, that the >> measurements don't fit the requirements of the regulation which >> states the "fuel on board can be no more than ten degrees cooler than >> ambient." Fuel rig temperature is not a completely accurate >> indication of the temperature on board, which is the how the >> regulation reads. >> >> This seems to be a pretty clear decision even if it rests on a >> technical point that the stewards are not really qualified to make. >> But they unfortunately clouded the issue by also saying that the >> definition of ambient was only assumed to be the temperature >> indicated on the F1 management timing monitors but there was a large >> discrepancy between the FOM ambient and the meteorologists that the >> teams contract with, and the regulation does not clearly state that >> the FOM number is definitive. >> >> The stewards conclusion was that there is sufficient doubt as to both >> the temperature of the fuel actually on board and as to the true >> ambient temperature to render it inappropriate to impose a penalty From DSPGTi at aol.com Mon Oct 22 06:00:04 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:00:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume Message-ID: If I remember correctly, the expansion rate for gasoline is about .6% for every 10 degrees F. So if you drop the fuel say 40 degrees, you decrease the volume by 2.4%. Will that make a significant enough difference? Dave Y. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From chris at tr4-racing.de Mon Oct 22 06:40:21 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:40:21 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife race Message-ID: <001b01c814a8$b65a6da0$6402a8c0@HOME> Weeks ago I was there with my camera..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXKFSp5Vvbw From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Mon Oct 22 09:01:28 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:01:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure In-Reply-To: <000e01c813f1$b5e5c700$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <000801c814bc$6c647830$171a694c@computer> I just had an autocross weekend where the course was 5 continuous laps and I ran 31 lbs all the way around in my TR6. What I am trying to determine through this question and the experience of FOT guys is whether or not there is any application on the race track for the TR6 factory recommended 4 (or so) lbs less pressure in the front than the back. I don't know what the factory pressure recommendations are for TR 3, 4, and 4A are but if they are similar to the TR6 (which is 4 lbs less in the front than the rear), then my question extends to them too. Also, I don't know if this type of engineering thinking is Triumph, British, the era or what. Any thoughts? Jim Hearn Sacramento, CA Two '74 TR6s -----Original Message----- From: BOB KRAMER [mailto:rkramer3 at austin.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 7:50 AM To: jim hearn; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing tire pressure I'm still early in learning how best to set up my TR4A but I have found that 30 front and 31.5 rear works OK with Hoosier Speedsters on my car. I started our 30 all across and gradually upped the rears. Without the lower front pressures turn in was too light. I had the car weighed the last time out and I'm going to do some adjustments so my pressures may be meaningless to someone else. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:43 PM Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure > It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on > the > front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended > air > pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high > speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear > than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with > race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. > > Jim Hearn > Sacramento, CA > Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Mon Oct 22 09:05:22 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:05:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship In-Reply-To: <3C619B25-E844-4BD5-B69F-47531E3663C5@bnj.com> Message-ID: <000901c814bc$f83c55d0$171a694c@computer> Kimi is a deserving champion especially with clouds over the points of both the McLaren drivers. I thought it was a great outcome. Jim Hearn Sacramento, CA Two '74 TR6s -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 4:38 PM To: Kas Kastner Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship It was a pleasure to see Kimi win a championship, even though I was rooting for Hamilton. What a year it was, great racing for a change, and today's race was no exception--a nailbiter to the last lap. I don't think it makes sense to say someone deserves a win--if they win, they deserve it. But Kimi certainly had a break coming. Nice to see him finally get one. On Oct 21, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Kas Kastner wrote: > Apparently Hamilton's car went into neutral on corner four (for no > known > reason) and then it was a struggle to get it to work again. Kimi, > YES!!!!!. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David W. Riddle" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:12 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship > > >> Great race. Hard fought to the end of the race and the >> season. Wow. One point between 1st and the "tie" points for 2nd and >> 3rd. Could not ask for a closer finish. >> >> Wonder what Hamilton's issue was with the car. He sure battled to >> put himself back in contention. My wife was rooting for Hamilton. >> >> For those interested here is a very cool video of Lewis Hamilton at >> Age 7 racing remote control cars and then at Age 12 talking about his >> karting. He was running a KT100 >> >> Here is the Hamilton Video >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g >> >> Hamilton winning his first ever JICA kart race from the back in 1998 >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s >> >> At 11:24 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: >>> Fantastic race. Diane and I had our own F1 party, with breakfast and >>> champagne. >>> >>> On Oct 21, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Joe Curry wrote: >>> >>>> What a fantastic finish to a very strange F1 season and a quite >>>> unexpected >>>> World Championship for Kimi. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Joe C. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> billb at bnj.com >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot at autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> dave at microworks.net >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> kaskas at cox.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Mon Oct 22 09:23:10 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:23:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip Message-ID: <000c01c814bf$74f520f0$0501000a@Chowdown> After careful cleaning and rebuilding of my race SU carbs, the rear carb slowly drips blue racing fuel. I'm actually at a better point now than I was before when both of them were drooling gasoline. I've rebuilt them twice on the bench and once in the car. :) I suspect the problem lies with the small cork "jet gland seals" that get compressed between the cupped washers. I've soaked these little guys in oil overnight to soften them up but perhaps my rebuild kits are too old and they have dried out too much. There's a "leak proof" o-ring replacement from Moss, are these any good? Here are my four questions: 1, How tight should I go with the jet locking nut? Until the upper (outer) jet bearing is aligned with the bridge? As I tighten it, a tan cork seal gets compressed. 2, The jet-gland gaskets that I described above were compressed into tight little doughnut shapes when I took the old ones out. The new ones don't seem to compress very much and I think they're the cause of my leak. Will they seal better over time as they get soaked with gas and the spring keeps smooshing them? 3, The jet adjusting nut at the bottom hangs up on the spring and causes the jet bearing to turn when I try to tighten the nut. I added a thin washer between the nut and the bottom of the spring. Is this okay? 4. All the adjustment procedures are for a 500rpm stock idle. My race car won't do that. More like 1200rpm. Can I synchronise the carbs and adjust the mixture at a high idle? Thanks gang. ~Steve From koblinger at verizon.net Mon Oct 22 11:00:00 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:00:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume Message-ID: <1923980.39062231193072400713.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> Well, you could experiment and take a carefully measured amount of fuel, say a liter, and chill it as you plan. Then remeasure it to see how much volume you gain. I assume you have an idea as to how many laps you get out of a liter. Then you could get an idea as to if you gain any real advantage. Joe's idea of insulating the fuel tank is good, but your competitors would see that and go "Hmmmm, what's he up to." Cheers, Kurt >From: "David W. Riddle" >Date: 2007/10/22 Mon AM 12:33:31 CDT >To: fot at autox.team.net, "wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com" , william.r.riddle at usmc.mil, ssedmonds at cox.net, scott at microworks.net, members at dctra.org >Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume >With the controversy from the F1 race today and the possible cooling >of fuel by BMW and Williams and the idea of cooling the fuel to get >it to take up less volume got me thinking. > >Next month on the 25th my Son will have a 45 minute Endurance race on >his 125 shifter at Firebird Main. Normally there is no way that a >fuel hungry "built" 125 shifter motor can go that distance on the >single 9 liter tank that we are allowed to run. > >The fuel rules as presented for this race. > >--------------- >* No mandatory stops. >* 9 liter maximum fuel capacity (2.37 gallons) for TAG and Shifter groups. >This is equal to the largest normally available plastic tanks. >* No unusual fuel line or filter set ups. >* No auxiliary fuel tanks. >* Recommended that no more than 1 gallon be added when refueling. >* No pressurized refueling systems. >--------------- > >Now, the supplemental rules do not say anything about cooling the >fuel and the normal rules only address the use of prohibited cooling >"systems". I'm thinking I ought to take a chance a fill a container >with our mixed fuel and keep it in an ice cooler until just before >the race. After qualifying drain the tank. Push the kart to grid >and then fill the tank there on the grid just before time to push off >for the race. > >Think the increased density of the chilled fuel would make a >measurable difference in the capacity that I'm talking about? If so >this seems like it might be in the best tradition of Mark Donahue. > >No fuel gauge on a kart and once the level drops below a certain >volume the driver can't see how much fuel is left in the tank. I'm >planning on testing during practice and qualifying to see if I can >check his fuel level with binoculars so that I can determine if I >need to hang a sign to pit for fuel. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Mon Oct 22 13:23:02 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:23:02 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Cooling fuel to take up less volume Message-ID: <20071022.132302.2104.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> I was amazed just how much gasoline expands when warmed. In my '76 Spitfire, when I was going on long drives, I had a section of 3/16 copper tubing bent into a 'J'. I would insert it into the fuel tank inlet to vent the air space at the top of the tank. On one occasion, my time from fueling to departure got extended a bit and the car was parked in the sun. When I was ready to leave, there was a sheet of gasoline cascading off the boot lid. I'm sure if I had popped the gas cap open, it would have gushed at least a foot above the inlet. That was probably less than a 25'F increase. Never did that again unless I was driving it immediately after fueling. Bill On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:00:04 EDT DSPGTi at aol.com writes: > If I remember correctly, the expansion rate for gasoline is about .6% > for > every 10 degrees F. So if you drop the fuel say 40 degrees, you > decrease the > volume by 2.4%. Will that make a significant enough difference? > > Dave Y. > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Mon Oct 22 13:57:50 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:57:50 -0600 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! Message-ID: <20071022.135750.2104.1.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Is it time to suspect thermometers? Accuracy, calibration, user competency; the basics. Bill R On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:18:30 -0700 Bill Babcock writes: > Oops, jammed up by the message size limit. Let's try this: > On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:16 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > > > I should have put quotes around this section > > On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:14 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > > > >> Actually, you're wrong, and that's part of the steward's > decision. > >> The FIA samples the fuel during pits stops. They don't take it > from > >> the car, they take it from the fueling rig. > >> > >> >>>"Article 6.5.5 of the F1 technical rules state that, No fuel > >> on board > >> the car may be more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient > >> temperature. The FIA have now confirmed that the trios fuel > >> temperatures were outside the permitted temperatures, saying the > fuel > >> was more than 10 degrees below the ambient temperature. > >> > >> In a statement, it has been revealed that during his first > pit-stop, > >> Heidfelds fuel temperature was 13 degrees lower than the > ambient > >> temperature, and during his second stop, his fuel was 12 degrees > >> lower. > >> > >> Robert Kubicas pit-stops have revealed that his temperatures > were 14 > >> degrees, 13 degrees and 13 degrees out respectively. Nico > Rosbergs > >> fuel temperatures were 13 and 12 degrees out. > >> > >> It has also been revealed that the second BMW of Kazuki Nakajima > also > >> had fuel temperature irregularities  his fuel was 12 degrees out > on > >> the first stop, however his fuel temperatures were within > regulations > >> on his second stop. The air temperature during the race averaged > 37 > >> degrees, while track temperatures topped a record 64 > degrees."<<< > >> > >> The stewards stated in their finding that they have no precise > >> reading of the fuel on board the car, and that since the only > >> temperatures they have available are from the fueling rigs, that > the > >> measurements don't fit the requirements of the regulation which > >> states the "fuel on board can be no more than ten degrees cooler > than > >> ambient." Fuel rig temperature is not a completely accurate > >> indication of the temperature on board, which is the how the > >> regulation reads. > >> > >> This seems to be a pretty clear decision even if it rests on a > >> technical point that the stewards are not really qualified to > make. > >> But they unfortunately clouded the issue by also saying that the > >> definition of ambient was only assumed to be the temperature > >> indicated on the F1 management timing monitors but there was a > large > >> discrepancy between the FOM ambient and the meteorologists that > the > >> teams contract with, and the regulation does not clearly state > that > >> the FOM number is definitive. > >> > >> The stewards conclusion was that there is sufficient doubt as to > both > >> the temperature of the fuel actually on board and as to the true > >> ambient temperature to render it inappropriate to impose a > penalty > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wgrosenbach at juno.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Oct 22 14:57:05 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:57:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife race In-Reply-To: <001b01c814a8$b65a6da0$6402a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: Nice sound and action. Thanks Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Marx Christian tr4-racing Sent: October 22, 2007 8:40 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife race Weeks ago I was there with my camera..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXKFSp5Vvbw macdonaldp at rogers.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Mon Oct 22 15:01:09 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:01:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! References: <20071022.135750.2104.1.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <00d401c814ee$abc02f10$0a10c548@RW> Absolutely, you protest EVERYTHING. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William G Rosenbach" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! > Is it time to suspect thermometers? Accuracy, calibration, user > competency; the basics. > Bill R > > On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:18:30 -0700 Bill Babcock writes: >> Oops, jammed up by the message size limit. Let's try this: >> On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:16 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: >> >> > I should have put quotes around this section >> > On Oct 21, 2007, at 11:14 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: >> > >> >> Actually, you're wrong, and that's part of the steward's >> decision. >> >> The FIA samples the fuel during pits stops. They don't take it >> from >> >> the car, they take it from the fueling rig. >> >> >> >> >>>"Article 6.5.5 of the F1 technical rules state that, No fuel >> >> on board >> >> the car may be more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient >> >> temperature. The FIA have now confirmed that the trios fuel >> >> temperatures were outside the permitted temperatures, saying the >> fuel >> >> was more than 10 degrees below the ambient temperature. >> >> >> >> In a statement, it has been revealed that during his first >> pit-stop, >> >> Heidfelds fuel temperature was 13 degrees lower than the >> ambient >> >> temperature, and during his second stop, his fuel was 12 degrees >> >> lower. >> >> >> >> Robert Kubicas pit-stops have revealed that his temperatures >> were 14 >> >> degrees, 13 degrees and 13 degrees out respectively. Nico >> Rosbergs >> >> fuel temperatures were 13 and 12 degrees out. >> >> >> >> It has also been revealed that the second BMW of Kazuki Nakajima >> also >> >> had fuel temperature irregularities  his fuel was 12 degrees out >> on >> >> the first stop, however his fuel temperatures were within >> regulations >> >> on his second stop. The air temperature during the race averaged >> 37 >> >> degrees, while track temperatures topped a record 64 >> degrees."<<< >> >> >> >> The stewards stated in their finding that they have no precise >> >> reading of the fuel on board the car, and that since the only >> >> temperatures they have available are from the fueling rigs, that >> the >> >> measurements don't fit the requirements of the regulation which >> >> states the "fuel on board can be no more than ten degrees cooler >> than >> >> ambient." Fuel rig temperature is not a completely accurate >> >> indication of the temperature on board, which is the how the >> >> regulation reads. >> >> >> >> This seems to be a pretty clear decision even if it rests on a >> >> technical point that the stewards are not really qualified to >> make. >> >> But they unfortunately clouded the issue by also saying that the >> >> definition of ambient was only assumed to be the temperature >> >> indicated on the F1 management timing monitors but there was a >> large >> >> discrepancy between the FOM ambient and the meteorologists that >> the >> >> teams contract with, and the regulation does not clearly state >> that >> >> the FOM number is definitive. >> >> >> >> The stewards conclusion was that there is sufficient doubt as to >> both >> >> the temperature of the fuel actually on board and as to the true >> >> ambient temperature to render it inappropriate to impose a >> penalty >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> wgrosenbach at juno.com >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Mon Oct 22 15:47:24 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:47:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! References: <20071022.135750.2104.1.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <005d01c814f5$22413160$2d02a8c0@Belkin> The way I see it is that since the rule stipulates temperature of the fuel in the car. Since there is no way to measure the temperature of the fuel in the car, there is no way that anyone can possibly say conclusively that the fuel in the cars is too cool. It is easy to imagine that cool fuel will rise in temperature as soon as it goes into the (very hot) race car and with the temps in the rig not more than 3 degrees out of tolerance, how could anyone conclude that the fuel would stay out of tolerance after it went into the car. It certainly isn't going to get any colder and most likely will be hotter immediately. But then, it is anybody's guess how those people think! Joe C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William G Rosenbach" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] F1 Championship - Not over yet?! > Is it time to suspect thermometers? Accuracy, calibration, user > competency; the basics. > Bill R From chris at tr4-racing.de Mon Oct 22 16:01:10 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:01:10 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife race References: Message-ID: <006901c814f7$0edbe9b0$6402a8c0@HOME> I've found the YouTube quality terrible so here is a better version to download: http://www.tr4-racing.de/download/adac.wmv ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul MacDonald" To: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" ; Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:57 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Nordschleife race > Nice sound and action. > > Thanks > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of > Marx Christian tr4-racing > Sent: October 22, 2007 8:40 AM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Nordschleife race > > > Weeks ago I was there with my camera..... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXKFSp5Vvbw > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > macdonaldp at rogers.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tlizzard at msn.com Mon Oct 22 16:39:40 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:39:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure References: <000801c814bc$6c647830$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: Typically what a manufacturer is doing with a tire pressure setup like that in a stock vehicle is giving the vehicle more straight line stability. Remember that most drivers confuse "stability" with "handling". Hence a car that is very stable in a straight line is a "good handling car". Now one of the things you are trying to achieve with higher front pressures is a crisper turn in, in addition to helping to balance a typically front heavy car. Those higher pressures in the front will make the car more responsive to steering input. Very important in a low speed, relatively tight autocross situation. Back in the day I actively campaigned my '88 Honda CRX in our SCCA regional autocross series. Because of the very understeery nature of front wheel drive I typically ran a 10 pound differential front to rear in autocross mode. However when I took the same car to Mid Ohio to run Porsche Club or Track Time schools I backed it down to around a 6 pound delta, because of the much higher speeds involved on the track, and FWD's interesting little characteristic of violent trailing throttle oversteer... But that's another story... Terry Stetler From mark at bradakis.com Mon Oct 22 16:45:48 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:45:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] List message sizes In-Reply-To: <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> <4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net> <34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com> <2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> Message-ID: <471D281C.1090708@bradakis.com> Finally getting around to answering an old question. Sorry for the delay. Bill Babcock wrote: >First one bounced--too big. Hey Mark, isn't 4K a bit too restrictive? > > Well, yes and no, sort of. It is an arbitrary limit I just picked. On some of the other big lists, though, it is only 3K. Basically the problem lies in the default behavior of many popular email clients in use today. When people respond to a message, the *entire* message is added to the end of the response. Unlike this message, which has only one pertinent line included, at the beginning, where it is clear to see the issue under discussion. So what happens is that as people continue discussion on a topic, the messages keep getting longer and longer and longer and longer. There may be only two or three lines still pertinent to the discussion or necessary for context, but all the useless verbiage keeps getting dragged along for the ride. Last time I actually ran some statistical programs on the Team.Net lists, about 70 - 80 percent of the character count of list messages was text that was included for no real reason at all. That's about the same as buying a 6 pack of your favorite beverage, and getting one or two that are the actual fresh, new beverage, the rest are, uh, recycled product. All this extra, useless text does is slow down the Team.Net network line, transmitting bits that it doesn't need to transmit. It slows down the list archiving processes, as they have to go over the same text again and again. Gee, nothing like getting 50 hits on your search only to find that 48 of them are the same old paragraph added again and again and again to peoples replies. The added replies slow down the mail processing, adding to the delays in getting the messages out to the list. If the preceding paragraph is too much computer jargon for you to get your mind around, then think of it this way - how would your race car start behaving if every time you crossed the start/finish line you had to stop and take on another 50 pounds of ballast? And of course, there is the time I have to spend cleaning up bouncing addresses because all the clueless replies filled up the mailboxes of hapless subscribers who've hit their limit. I know that I'm never going to be able to singlehandedly change human behavior, but it sure would be nice if a few more folks spent an extra few seconds on their list messages. Set your mailer to NOT include the original in your reply, just paste in the appropriate line or two as I did above. Or at least delete the text that serves no purpose in your response, rather than just absentmindedly trying to stuff it down the Team.Net pipe for no useful reason. If you do have a lot to say and your all-original message does hit up against the size limit, I do try to stay somewhat current with admin requests, and I'll approve such messages and get them on their way as I have time. Gee, this message is getting kind of long. Wonder how many folks will respond, and include it in its entirety in their response? For now, I'll just send it off and then spend some more time wading through the 7,664 unread messages cuurently in my Team.Net admin mailbox. mjb. From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Mon Oct 22 16:55:02 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:55:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] List message sizes In-Reply-To: <471D281C.1090708@bradakis.com> References: <20071015010843.CHCA4938.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net><4712C4C9.5030706@verizon.net><34605140-A935-4B44-90F0-136E3BC941AA@bnj.com><2205F891-406B-4B27-B78E-5FC122A82F67@mac.com> <471D281C.1090708@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747C67E0@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> << Wonder how many folks will respond, and include it in its entirety in their response? For now, I'll just send it off and then spend some more time wading through the 7,664 unread messages currently in my Team.Net admin mailbox. >> Er, all of which reminds me that I haven't hit the "donate" link in a few months... Thanks, Mark! Scott B. -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Mark J. Bradakis Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:46 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] List message sizes Finally getting around to answering an old question. Sorry for the delay. mjb. scott.barr at mccarty-law.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From SpiwakD at aol.com Mon Oct 22 16:58:18 2007 From: SpiwakD at aol.com (SpiwakD at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:58:18 EDT Subject: [Fot] Tilton brake piston size Message-ID: Am considering a Tilton pedal setup with master and slave cylinders for TR3. Who knows what size piston to order? Dave ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From rocky at spitfire4.com Mon Oct 22 16:59:30 2007 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:59:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure References: <000001c8139c$fc098f50$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <006c01c814ff$407b2f50$6701a8c0@S1099895562> Numerous factors figure in, including corner weight. Also a factor is what you set them at cold and what they end up at hot. In my Spitfire, I set them 21F/24R for autocross, 18F/21R for racing. They end up hot in the 25-27 range. Used to be long, long ago my autox setup was just the reverse -- 24/21. Then I lost 100 lbs on the front end by taking the stock steel bonnet off and replacing it with a lightweight fiberglass one. Completely changed the handling of the car. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:43 PM Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure > It seems like for most cars the tire pressure is best a little higher on > the > front than the rear (i.e. 32 front and 28 rear) but factory recommended > air > pressure for the TR6 is for the street 22 front and 26 rear and for "high > speed" it is 28 front and 32 rear. Does this (more pressure in the rear > than the front) prove out to be the most effective set up for the TR6 with > race tires? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. > > Jim Hearn > Sacramento, CA > Two '74 TR6s (one street and one track) > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had > a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > rocky at spitfire4.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Mon Oct 22 17:56:19 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:56:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Tire Pressures Message-ID: <50069b074a4f98c0dd02f121cb8acc31@wi.rr.com> Friends, At Road America, I run cold pressures as follows: 30.5 LF, 29 RF, 27 LR and 29.5 RR. Hot pressures run 37 LF, 36 RF, 34 LR and 34 RR. I'm running a 1" bar in the front with a 3/4" bar at the rear. Tires are 15" Toyo RA-1's. Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 22 18:42:22 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:42:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure In-Reply-To: <003501c8150c$121228f0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <000801c814bc$6c647830$171a694c@computer> <8B7293C3-8E2F-49B6-9AD8-1E5F9BD82172@bnj.com> <003501c8150c$121228f0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: Hard to say where your car is without ensuring the camber is right first. Usually with radial tires like the Hoosier Speedsters you need at least 2.5 degrees, though you might need more with a heavy car. If you don't have camber right, then the feel of the car won't be a real indication that your tire pressures are right or wrong. You can overinflate a car with too little camber and get a better feeling turn in, because the overinflation effectively produces both a stiffer sidewall, and a bowed contact area which acts like camber to some degree. It won't be anywhere near optimal, but it will feel good. If you're getting oversteer on a Triumph then something is seriously screwy. You've got to work at it to get oversteer on any Triumph I've driven (admittedly mostly TR3's and 4 though I have a little seat time on track in a TR6) On Oct 22, 2007, at 5:31 PM, BOB KRAMER wrote: > Bill, > > It was my copied response that mentioned too light. I did mean that > on my car with equal front and rear pressures I experience > oversteer, the kind that takes away speed because I felt like I was > about to whip the rear around at all times. Dropping the front > pressure definitely helped balance out that sensation. I'm not > saying that it isn't faster that way, not yet at least. > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" > To: "jim hearn" > Cc: "'BOB KRAMER'" ; > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:17 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing tire pressure > > >> Jim, >> The factory tire recommendations have nothing to do with racing. >> In racing conditions you need to take into consideration two >> things-- optimizing the contact patch and making sure the tires >> are pointing in the right direction. >> >> The best tool for optimizing the tire contact patch is a tire >> pyrometer and a skid pad (or a really tight and twisty race >> track). What you want to see is even temperatures across the tire >> which indicates the tire is pressing with essentially equal force >> against the road across the entire tire. At a normal race track >> you don't get a good indication of outer edge temperature because >> it gets cooled as the car runs down the straight. From stutzmans at comcast.net Mon Oct 22 19:08:18 2007 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:08:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip References: <000c01c814bf$74f520f0$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <000301c81511$35b1c810$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> leaking H6 carbs is one of the main reasons why many of us are using HS6 carbs. I am reluctant to even rebuild H6's for friends because they are probably going to leak. Dave hagenbuck at TRF has O rings to replace the cork gland washers that he says work. The jet bearing is not replaced when they are rebuilt; it is not part of the rebuild kit. It can get out of round by years of the jet rubbing against it when the choke is pulled on and off. If this has happened the cork washer won't seal. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:23 AM Subject: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip > After careful cleaning and rebuilding of my race SU carbs, the rear carb > slowly drips blue racing fuel. I'm actually at a better point now than I > was > before when both of them were drooling gasoline. I've rebuilt them twice > on > the bench and once in the car. :) I suspect the problem lies with the > small > cork "jet gland seals" that get compressed between the cupped washers. > I've > soaked these little guys in oil overnight to soften them up but perhaps my > rebuild kits are too old and they have dried out too much. There's a > "leak > proof" o-ring replacement from Moss, are these any good? > > Here are my four questions: > > 1, How tight should I go with the jet locking nut? Until the upper > (outer) > jet bearing is aligned with the bridge? As I tighten it, a tan cork seal > gets > compressed. > > 2, The jet-gland gaskets that I described above were compressed into > tight > little doughnut shapes when I took the old ones out. The new ones don't > seem > to compress very much and I think they're the cause of my leak. Will they > seal better over time as they get soaked with gas and the spring keeps > smooshing them? > > 3, The jet adjusting nut at the bottom hangs up on the spring and causes > the > jet bearing to turn when I try to tighten the nut. I added a thin washer > between the nut and the bottom of the spring. Is this okay? > > 4. All the adjustment procedures are for a 500rpm stock idle. My race car > won't do that. More like 1200rpm. Can I synchronise the carbs and adjust > the > mixture at a high idle? > > > Thanks gang. > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > stutzmans at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Oct 22 19:25:01 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:25:01 GMT Subject: [Fot] Tilton brake piston size Message-ID: <20071022.212501.6449.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Dave, I am on the road for the week, so can't look to see what I have where, but I have two 0.70 masters and one 0.75 master. I think the 0.75 is front and a 0.7 for clutch and the other for rear. I, however have Jaguar 3 piston front calipers and Wilwood rear calipers, so my car may not be a good comparison. I went with the Wilwood pedal assembly with Tilton master cylinders. Initially this was because the Tilton pedals were on back order, but after looking at them closer I liked the Wilwood ones better for how I was going to mount them. They also have non-slip pedals. Download the drawings and compare them. Joe(B) -- SpiwakD at aol.com wrote: Am considering a Tilton pedal setup with master and slave cylinders for TR3. Who knows what size piston to order? Dave ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com jaboruch at netzero.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click for free info on rehab treatments for drug & alcohol dependency. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmXaaxGA6ibYLOci1amBZKiO vdOsJCGyFPWX3p1oce20rtbE/ From budscars at msn.com Mon Oct 22 19:30:29 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:30:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] tires Message-ID: hi jim...and FOT. I believe that your tr6 racer(I assume you are talking about your racer..not your streeter) is an ex SCCA car..That means it's set up differently than an autocrosser.....As Bill said..the Big Triumphs inherently understeer.....I suggest driving your car in a NASA event to see how it works at higher speeds.. For a few hundred bucks you can spend the weekend sorting out your car....and get some seat time too Racer Bud From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Mon Oct 22 21:22:31 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:22:31 -0500 Subject: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip In-Reply-To: <000301c81511$35b1c810$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> Message-ID: <000001c81523$f7d13220$8d20b348@blake1> Anyone try using the Hatachi built HS6 from a Datsun on a TR motor? I loved the ones I had on my Z. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+ablake2=austin.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Stutzman Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:08 PM To: Steve Belfer; Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip leaking H6 carbs is one of the main reasons why many of us are using HS6 carbs. I am reluctant to even rebuild H6's for friends because they are probably going to leak. Dave hagenbuck at TRF has O rings to replace the cork gland washers that he says work. The jet bearing is not replaced when they are rebuilt; it is not part of the rebuild kit. It can get out of round by years of the jet rubbing against it when the choke is pulled on and off. If this has happened the cork washer won't seal. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:23 AM Subject: [Fot] SU H6 rebuilding four questions... drip drip drip > After careful cleaning and rebuilding of my race SU carbs, the rear carb > slowly drips blue racing fuel. I'm actually at a better point now than I > was > before when both of them were drooling gasoline. I've rebuilt them twice > on > the bench and once in the car. :) I suspect the problem lies with the > small > cork "jet gland seals" that get compressed between the cupped washers. > I've > soaked these little guys in oil overnight to soften them up but perhaps my > rebuild kits are too old and they have dried out too much. There's a > "leak > proof" o-ring replacement from Moss, are these any good? > > Here are my four questions: > > 1, How tight should I go with the jet locking nut? Until the upper > (outer) > jet bearing is aligned with the bridge? As I tighten it, a tan cork seal > gets > compressed. > > 2, The jet-gland gaskets that I described above were compressed into > tight > little doughnut shapes when I took the old ones out. The new ones don't > seem > to compress very much and I think they're the cause of my leak. Will they > seal better over time as they get soaked with gas and the spring keeps > smooshing them? > > 3, The jet adjusting nut at the bottom hangs up on the spring and causes > the > jet bearing to turn when I try to tighten the nut. I added a thin washer > between the nut and the bottom of the spring. Is this okay? > > 4. All the adjustment procedures are for a 500rpm stock idle. My race car > won't do that. More like 1200rpm. Can I synchronise the carbs and adjust > the > mixture at a high idle? > > > Thanks gang. > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > stutzmans at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ablake2 at austin.rr.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 21:58:25 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:58:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tilton brake piston size In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710222058j7b93c2c3x982dbc86e001b1a3@mail.gmail.com> Having put 5/8s on my TR5 race car, after having 3/4s on my TR6 track day car, I prefer the 3/4 -- pretty hard and now stopping. Have disks up front and Morgan 7/8 cylinders on the drums in the rear, so may not be the same with a 3. Like Joe Boruch, I have Wilwood pedals on the 5, but I had Tiltons on the 6. On 10/22/07, SpiwakD at aol.com wrote: > > Am considering a Tilton pedal setup with master and slave cylinders > for TR3. > Who knows what size piston to order? > > Dave > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > triosan at gmail.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 22 22:34:48 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:34:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tilton brake piston size In-Reply-To: <20071022.212501.6449.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> References: <20071022.212501.6449.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: There's a lot to be said for using all the same size cylinders if you are going to have a bias bar. For one thing, you only need one spare rebuild kit for all three MC. On Oct 23, 2007, at 1:25 AM, Joe Boruch wrote: > Dave, I am on the road for the week, so can't look to see what I > have where, > but I have two 0.70 masters and one 0.75 master. I think the 0.75 > is front > and a 0.7 for clutch and the other for rear. I, however have > Jaguar 3 piston > front calipers and Wilwood rear calipers, so my car may not be a good > comparison. I went with the Wilwood pedal assembly with Tilton master > cylinders. Initially this was because the Tilton pedals were on > back order, > but after looking at them closer I liked the Wilwood ones better > for how I was > going to mount them. They also have non-slip pedals. Download the > drawings > and compare them. Joe(B) > > -- SpiwakD at aol.com wrote: > Am considering a Tilton pedal setup with master and slave cylinders > for TR3. > Who knows what size piston to order? > > Dave From chris at tr4-racing.de Tue Oct 23 00:40:18 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:40:18 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Racing tire pressure Message-ID: <002a01c8153f$94ca2da0$6402a8c0@HOME> In season 2006 I had some engine trouble and no chance to earn eny championship points so I used the races for testing the car and tire pressures. Zandvort race: The main difference between race I and race II was trouble with the clutch. At the first race the clutch passed away during the instalation lap and after half distance of the first lap I was stuck in 3rd and could only shift with OD......the astounding thing is....that my laptimes of race I and II are only 0.2sec in difference......so without the clutch I was just a little slower. >From my point of view the tire pressure made the difference: I started the first race with 22.5 psi cold all around. The car felt very twitchy and not solid and I had the impression that I'm close to the edge to leave the tracklane on every corner. http://www.tr-competition.de/pics/video/tc-2006-74-zandvoort-1.wmv At race II I had 28.5 PSI all around. The car was very solid and easy to drive but the laptimes went down during the race....2 fast laps....then I was sliding. http://www.tr-competition.de/pics/video/tc-2006-74-zandvoort-2.wmv To settle the astounding result of tire pressures I went up with the pressure for the next event. We had a wet practise.....I went in with rain tires and a cold pressure of 30 PSI which made the car nervous. I corrected the pressure in the pits down to 25.5 which made the car pleasant to drive and gave me a 5th position on the grid. http://www.tr4-racing.de/download/tc-2006-74-saisonfin-freepractise.wmv http://www.tr4-racing.de/download/practise.wmv The race I was dry and I went in with 31.5 cold. It was okay but the car broke away on the rear very easy. No pleasure to drive. http://www.tr-competition.de/pics/video/tc-2006-74-saisonfin-1.wmv At race II I installed 34.5 to have it more clear. 2 fast laps, spin at lap 3 and then times went down and down. http://www.tr-competition.de/pics/video/tc-2006-74-saisonfin-2.wmv So I will use in future races pressures in the range of 25.5 at front and 22.5-24 at rear. Cheers Chris From jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au Tue Oct 23 01:04:14 2007 From: jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au (Jim Cun) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR2 Turbo Message-ID: <305946.41308.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> To all who have been following the progress of the TR2 Turbo we now have the final result! After making many more modifications the dyno resultes are 221 rear wheel horse power at 6200 RPM which we are very pleased with. Flywheel horse power depends on a lot of factors it could be anywhere from 270 to 290 HP. Regards Jim Sick of deleting your inbox? Yahoo!7 Mail has free unlimited storage. http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/unlimitedstorage.html From kaskas at cox.net Tue Oct 23 08:53:03 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:53:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms Message-ID: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> Thanks you to all for inquires on our situation here in Oceanside. So far everything is okay and the big fires are south of us. Over 225,000 FAMILIES have been told to get out of the area but the roads are jammed of course. The air is full of ash and smoke but so far okay. From chasgee at aol.com Tue Oct 23 10:48:25 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:48:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms In-Reply-To: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> References: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <8C9E3ABAA49450D-B88-CF0@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> As Kas stated, its pretty smoky but that's about it right now.? Since I'm downwind of Kas a couple of miles, if he's OK, I'm OK.? We're keeping our fingers crossed. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kas Kastner To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 7:53 am Subject: [Fot] Fire storms Thanks you to all for inquires on our situation here in Oceanside. So far everything is okay and the big fires are south of us. Over 225,000 FAMILIES have been told to get out of the area but the roads are jammed of course. The air is full of ash and smoke but so far okay. chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From koblinger at verizon.net Tue Oct 23 11:28:55 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:28:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Fire storms Message-ID: <32118675.2527111193160535626.JavaMail.root@vms075.mailsrvcs.net> My Dad lives in Ocean Hills and he says the same, smokey but nothing threatening. My wife's Mom had to evacuate Fallbrook yesterday so we're on pins and needles about that. Hope everyone else is safe. Kurt O. >From: chasgee at aol.com >Date: 2007/10/23 Tue AM 11:48:25 CDT >To: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Fot] Fire storms >As Kas stated, its pretty smoky but that's about it right now.? Since I'm downwind of Kas a couple of miles, if he's OK, I'm OK.? We're keeping our fingers crossed. > >Chuck > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kas Kastner >To: fot at autox.team.net >Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 7:53 am >Subject: [Fot] Fire storms > > > >Thanks you to all for inquires on our situation here in Oceanside. So far >everything is okay and the big fires are south of us. Over 225,000 FAMILIES >have been told to get out of the area but the roads are jammed of course. The >air is full of ash and smoke but so far okay. >chasgee at aol.com >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > >________________________________________________________________________ >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >koblinger at verizon.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Tue Oct 23 11:56:39 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:56:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms In-Reply-To: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> References: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <20071023180015.NJDL22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> My Dad (retired Army Aviator) works at Camp Pendleton and my Uncle Larry (retired first career as an Air Force C-141 Crew Chief) recently retired for the second time from Scripps Institute of Oceanography as their Climatologist. Here is a note that Larry just sent out to family about the status in San Diego. Interesting note about the Fire "departments" stonewalling Military help. My Cousin Joe is a Fire Fighter over there and a step brother here in AZ is a fire fighter - both with a local City and with the National Guard (scheduled to go to Iraq in the Spring) ---------------------------- Everyone appears to be OK here in San Diego. So far, the fires do not appear to be threatening to either Don's apartment in the North Park area (I'm not sure of its exact geographic nomenclature) or our house here in Clairemont. I am told that Lori (and Erin?) were successfully evacuated, with animals, to El Cajon yesterday. We have not spoken with her directly. We're not sure where Joe is right now, but CALFire usually has his crew stay on duty in Temecula to provide fire suppression there while other Temecula fire fighting assets (also known as Riverside County Fire Dept and California Fire (CALFire)) are sent out of town for mutual aid. I don't know if this is his current status. In any case, Temecula does not appear to be threatened at this time. The governor has approved the use of military helicopters to assist in the fire suppression effort. This is required by state law. During the Cedars fire (four years ago), then Gov Gray Davis refused to let them assist. However, the local fire agencies are still trying to limit their impact. The military crews are ready to take off, but the local fire officials won't let them. They say they can't fly without a local fire fighter on board as an observer to coordinate drops. And they are "trying to locate" fire fighters for this role. Of course, the National Guard, Marine Corps, and the Navy all insist the choppers already have an qualified observer on board. They are called crew chiefs. And they are trained to coordinate all kinds of air drops. They do it all the time in training, in Iraq, and in Afghanistan. Not good enough, according to the fire officials. Speculation is that this has everything to do with union politics and little to do with reality. All of the military's fire fighting C-130s (all National Guard, I believe) are on their way to Southern California. They were in mission preplanning well before their use was authorized. The general in charge of them (at the National Guard Bureau?) stated that, if authorization was not received by the time the were ready to take off, that he had already scheduled a "training flight" for them that would take them to SoCal. Military can-do. Most of the other federal fire fighting aircraft are either here or on their way. The news says there are about 14 aircraft (fixed wing and rotor wing) currently making drops. More later. Larry ------------------------------------- From tsheach at pba.co.uk Tue Oct 23 12:05:59 2007 From: tsheach at pba.co.uk (tr4.tony@virgin.net) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:05:59 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms Message-ID: Glad you're all well ......! Keep smiling. I'm sending this from the roadside near London .... I've a different sort of smoke to deal with. Just had my a type od unit explode at 5000 rpm and about 100 mph .... Cockpit full of smoke to steer with ........ A good reason to drive with the window down when you're wearing a hardtop !Still picking the bits out of my left leg as I wait for the recovery truck. And I only too it to work to make me smile ...... Dont you just love TR4's ! I'm still hoping to do the Rally of the Tests next week ..... Maybe its time for a few days of work ! And hope the smell clears...... Stay safe .... ! Hope this lightens the gloom. Tony -----Original Message----- From: koblinger at verizon.net To: chasgee at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Sent: 23/10/07 18:28 Subject: Re: [Fot] Fire storms My Dad lives in Ocean Hills and he says the same, smokey but nothing threatening. My wife's Mom had to evacuate Fallbrook yesterday so we're on pins and needles about that. Hope everyone else is safe. Kurt O. >From: chasgee at aol.com >Date: 2007/10/23 Tue AM 11:48:25 CDT >To: fot at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Fot] Fire storms >As Kas stated, its pretty smoky but that's about it right now.? Since I'm downwind of Kas a couple of miles, if he's OK, I'm OK.? We're keeping our fingers crossed. > >Chuck > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kas Kastner >To: fot at autox.team.net >Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 7:53 am >Subject: [Fot] Fire storms > > > >Thanks you to all for inquires on our situation here in Oceanside. So far >everything is okay and the big fires are south of us. Over 225,000 FAMILIES >have been told to get out of the area but the roads are jammed of course. The From dave at microworks.net Tue Oct 23 12:05:57 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:05:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Problem with cooling fuel Message-ID: <20071023180933.INCM1378.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Well scratch the idea of cooling our fuel to the point that it would make any real difference. When I answered our "race directors" question about how my pit strategy was coming and I responded with "...Going to see if we can come up with a way (inspired by Williams and BMW - hehe...) to make the distance without refueling..." He came back with... "...Too cold and the castor oil will separate out of your gas. It's happened to me at Big Willow in January and Daytona in December! Don't make me get Max Mosely in here!..." HeHeHe.... Back to the drawing board... From klynch_6 at msn.com Tue Oct 23 13:57:14 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:57:14 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms References: <001d01c81584$6a384c80$0a10c548@RW> <20071023180015.NJDL22006.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: I've just heard units from Peterson AFB down in the 'Springs' are on their way as their aircraft are fitted with fire suppression systems. Also a group out of Wyoming are scheduled for a similar assist. Kevin RMVR ----- Original Message ----- From: David W. Riddle To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Fire storms My Dad (retired Army Aviator) works at Camp Pendleton and my Uncle Larry (retired first career as an Air Force C-141 Crew Chief) recently retired for the second time from Scripps Institute of Oceanography as their Climatologist. Here is a note that Larry just sent out to family about the status in San Diego. Interesting note about the Fire "departments" stonewalling Military help. My Cousin Joe is a Fire Fighter over there and a step brother here in AZ is a fire fighter - both with a local City and with the National Guard (scheduled to go to Iraq in the Spring) ---------------------------- Everyone appears to be OK here in San Diego. So far, the fires do not appear to be threatening to either Don's apartment in the North Park area (I'm not sure of its exact geographic nomenclature) or our house here in Clairemont. I am told that Lori (and Erin?) were successfully evacuated, with animals, to El Cajon yesterday. We have not spoken with her directly. We're not sure where Joe is right now, but CALFire usually has his crew stay on duty in Temecula to provide fire suppression there while other Temecula fire fighting assets (also known as Riverside County Fire Dept and California Fire (CALFire)) are sent out of town for mutual aid. I don't know if this is his current status. In any case, Temecula does not appear to be threatened at this time. The governor has approved the use of military helicopters to assist in the fire suppression effort. This is required by state law. During the Cedars fire (four years ago), then Gov Gray Davis refused to let them assist. However, the local fire agencies are still trying to limit their impact. The military crews are ready to take off, but the local fire officials won't let them. They say they can't fly without a local fire fighter on board as an observer to coordinate drops. And they are "trying to locate" fire fighters for this role. Of course, the National Guard, Marine Corps, and the Navy all insist the choppers already have an qualified observer on board. They are called crew chiefs. And they are trained to coordinate all kinds of air drops. They do it all the time in training, in Iraq, and in Afghanistan. Not good enough, according to the fire officials. Speculation is that this has everything to do with union politics and little to do with reality. All of the military's fire fighting C-130s (all National Guard, I believe) are on their way to Southern California. They were in mission preplanning well before their use was authorized. The general in charge of them (at the National Guard Bureau?) stated that, if authorization was not received by the time the were ready to take off, that he had already scheduled a "training flight" for them that would take them to SoCal. Military can-do. Most of the other federal fire fighting aircraft are either here or on their way. The news says there are about 14 aircraft (fixed wing and rotor wing) currently making drops. More later. Larry ------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Tue Oct 23 14:01:09 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:01:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Problem with cooling fuel In-Reply-To: <34739.17780.qm@web57613.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <20071023180933.INCM1378.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <34739.17780.qm@web57613.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20071023201454.MGYZ1433.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> That's why i signed off with "Back to the drawing board..." I would think that a kart without suspension moving around the track "should" be shaking the fuel tank sufficiently to keep the fuel mixed as long as the temp is not so cold as to make it "slush". Rules don't allow for oil injection - unlike on my SCCA Formula 500 car where it is required. At 12:45 PM 10/23/2007, you wrote: >Dave: > >If Alexander G. Bell had given up the first time he didn't get a >response to, "Can you hear me now" we wouldn't have the Internet >today. I'm sure there is a method around this dilemma, such as >installing a mixer to keep the oil and gas mixed, or oil injection >to the cylinder, or being the first person to have a race kart >powered by a diesel motor. It's nice to dream. >[] > > >Hope father and son have fun. > >Ernie > >"David W. Riddle" wrote: > >"...Too cold and the castor oil will separate out of your gas. It's >happened to me at Big Willow in January and Daytona in December! >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Tue Oct 23 14:35:56 2007 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:35:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fire storms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071023153556.kucylqfgisco4scg@secure.uwalumni.com> Let's see if I've got this right: An exploded OD, a cockpit full of smoke, a disabled TR and, meanwhile, Tony sits by the roadside writing up the event for the benefit of the FOT email list, whilst picking metal bits out of his leg, waiting for the recovery truck and planning for next week's Rally. This is certainly the FOT communique of the year! Well done sir! Jim Hill From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 23 18:59:38 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:59:38 EDT Subject: [Fot] Fire storms Message-ID: In a message dated 10/23/2007 11:48:50 AM Central Daylight Time, chasgee at aol.com writes: > As Kas stated, its pretty smoky but that's about it right now.? Since I'm > downwind of Kas a couple of miles, if he's OK, I'm OK.? We're keeping our > fingers crossed. > > Chuck > > I just spent the day with some folks from SoCal....one is in no danger, but the smoke is so bad he is living in hotel. From gasket.works at verizon.net Tue Oct 23 19:09:28 2007 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Gasket Works USA) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:09:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] fire quenching Message-ID: <29833139.848471193188168978.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net> > From my limited perspective the way to put out a fire is remove the oxygen and reduce the heat. What about a limited aerial device that knocks "out the air" from a fire followed up immediately by a quenching water (or some such) drop to prevent re-ignition... granted the pressure wave can destroy as well but, in areas that are inaccessable ....who cares. The animals likely have already scampered away. mordy M.N.Dunst Gasket Works USA, LLC gmt-8 Pacific time 626.358.1616 voice 626.628.3777 fax From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Oct 23 19:48:47 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:48:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Fire storms... now Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. Message-ID: In a message dated 10/23/2007 8:45:50 PM Central Daylight Time, N197TR4 writes: > > Tony's message has to be a kind of classic in our World of Triumphs. > > He should also be one of our Honored Guests at Watkins Glen. > > I am glad he is not upside down and saying, "well that sucks", like the > other Tony did while hanging from his harness at the Carousel. > > Return-path: From: N197TR4 at cs.com Full-name: N197TR4 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:45:50 EDT Subject: Fire storms... now Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. To: tsheach at pba.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 6.0 for Windows XP sub 50 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Tony's message has to be a kind of classic in our World of Triumphs. He should also be one of our Honored Guests at Watkins Glen. I am glad he is not upside down and saying, "well that sucks", like the other Tony did while hanging from his harness at the Carousel. > I'm sending this from the roadside near London .... I've a different sort of > smoke to deal with. Just had my a type od unit explode at 5000 rpm and about > 100 mph .... Cockpit full of smoke to steer with ........ A good reason to > drive with the window down when you're wearing a hardtop !Still picking the > bits out of my left leg as I wait for the recovery truck. And I only too it > to > work to make me smile ...... Dont you just love TR4's ! > > From trmarty at hotmail.com Tue Oct 23 19:54:53 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:54:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Triumph roll bar / cage concepts Message-ID: Hi folks. I am contemplating the addition of real rollover protection in the TR6 over the upcoming winter. As I have looked at you folk's cars over the years I have seen some different approaches to bar/cage fabrication. I should have been taking pictures but I didn't. Any chance you have some digital pictures of your bars/cages you could email me to get the thought process rolling? Thanks, Marty Sukey _________________________________________________________________ Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailne ws From fasttrs at mindspring.com Tue Oct 23 20:45:29 2007 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 22:45:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] SCCA Prodfest at VIR Message-ID: <003201c815e7$f07ad6b0$6401a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> Well it looks like I have everything on the car sorted out.(Yeah right!) We will be headed to VIR this weekend. The Prodfest is like the runoff's for all the SCCA production class cars and has been growing every year. We had 35 cars last year and so far have over 55 cars entered this year. There will be 3 past and present SCCA national champions there. Will there be any other FOT's there? Mike Munson From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 23 21:15:24 2007 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:15:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Triumph roll bar / cage concepts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For what it's worth, here's a photo of Peyote's cage. Somewhere I have photos with the body off. It's actually a very good design and if you can get away with it would give you an incredibly stiff car. All the tubing is .060, which is not a good thing. It's fortunate that I never put it on it's lid, because I'm not sure the bar would have held. The new version will be .095 on the main hoop and hoop supports as well as the driver intrusion bar, and the rest will be . 060. It will weigh about the same because I'm using slightly smaller diameter tubing. On Oct 23, 2007, at 6:54 PM, marty sukey wrote: > Hi folks. I am contemplating the addition of real rollover > protection in the [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type multipart/appledouble] > TR6 over the upcoming winter. As I have looked at you folk's cars > over the > years I have seen some different approaches to bar/cage > fabrication. I should > have been taking pictures but I didn't. Any chance you have some > digital > pictures of your bars/cages you could email me to get the thought > process > rolling? > > Thanks, > Marty Sukey > > _________________________________________________________________ > Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live > OneCare! > http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx? > s_cid=wl_hotmailne > ws > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > billb at bnj.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Oct 24 04:17:47 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 06:17:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] Classic Motorsports magazine wall calendar Message-ID: Sorry about the commercial message, but heck, I am a good citizen of the board and supporter of all things Triumph. Plus, we are giivng away calendars again. This year we have a TR3 (not mine) on the calendar. To check it out go to the website below. Thanks. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 Here's the offical mumbo jumbo... Free 2008 wall calendar from Classic Motorsports. Featuring some of the coolest cars and best photography from Classic Motorsports magazine, this 2008 calendar is available free to all Classic Motorsports subscribers. Chock-full of a year's worth of eye candy for your office or garage this high quality calendar measures a full 10" x 17" when open. Each month features a brilliant, full-color photo of one of your favorite classic cars, including favorites from MG, Triumph, Alfa Romeo and Porsche, along with some more unusual picks, like the Lang-Cooper vintage racer, the Isetta microcar and the "Hollywood" Sunbeam Tiger. The 2008 Classic Motorsports calendar is only available for free until Nov 13th. To see if your favorite car is on this calendar or to make sure you get a copy please visit http://classicmotorsports.net/calendar/ Not ready to subscribe? You can still purchase this calendar from the Classic Motorsports Store at https://ssl.grmotorsports.com/grm-store.php for a limited time. And if you would like to order bulk copies for your club, give us a call at 888-676-9747 for special pricing. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From tsheach at pba.co.uk Wed Oct 24 06:53:12 2007 From: tsheach at pba.co.uk (tr4.tony@virgin.net) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:53:12 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Fire storms... now Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. Message-ID: Aw shucks ...... Now you're embarassing me ....... I was just killing time until the low loader arrived to scoop me up and also trying to keep my oily fingers warm ....! But I do hope to see you all at the Glen. As a little footnote: the damage to the gearbox is huge, propshaft shredded, overdrive unit was spread over about 200 m of her majesty's highway around a uniforn trail of new millers gearbox oil ..... But my laptop bag caught most of the big bits (thanks DELL ..... I knew if was expensive for a reason) and the fibreglass reinforced tunnel, speedo cable a old seatbelt that I glued inside it held the rest in place until I got out of hyperspace ..... So I'd recommend a prop / output shaft catcher to any one. Now using 3VC again on ROTT next week so listen for the howls of protest as the old girl does her thing and (hopefully) brings home a bootful of trophies for the third year in succession. Regards and go steady. Tony -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: 24/10/07 02:48 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Fire storms... now Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. In a message dated 10/23/2007 8:45:50 PM Central Daylight Time, N197TR4 writes: > > Tony's message has to be a kind of classic in our World of Triumphs. > > He should also be one of our Honored Guests at Watkins Glen. > > I am glad he is not upside down and saying, "well that sucks", like the > other Tony did while hanging from his harness at the Carousel. > > Return-path: From: N197TR4 at cs.com Full-name: N197TR4 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:45:50 EDT Subject: Fire storms... now Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. To: tsheach at pba.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 6.0 for Windows XP sub 50 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 24 06:58:15 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 08:58:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend Message-ID: let us know how you and 3VC do.... > Aw shucks ...... Now you're embarassing me ....... I was just killing time > until the low loader arrived to scoop me up and also trying to keep my oily > fingers warm ....! But I do hope to see you all at the Glen. > > As a little footnote: the damage to the gearbox is huge, propshaft shredded, > overdrive unit was spread over about 200 m of her majesty's highway around a > uniforn trail of new millers gearbox oil ..... But my laptop bag caught most > of the big bits (thanks DELL ..... I knew if was expensive for a reason) and > the fibreglass reinforced tunnel, speedo cable a old seatbelt that I glued > inside it held the rest in place until I got out of hyperspace ..... So I'd > recommend a prop / output shaft catcher to any one. > > Now using 3VC again on ROTT next week so listen for the howls of protest as > the old girl does her thing and (hopefully) brings home a bootful of trophies > for the third year in succession. > > Regards and go steady. > > Tony > > From TSheach at pba.co.uk Wed Oct 24 07:06:31 2007 From: TSheach at pba.co.uk (Tony Sheach) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:06:31 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBFF9847DB8E446AD5BA723E412305805749544@cbh-srv-exc.PBA.INT> Will do ...... Were starting number 18 of 85 and it's a round of the International FIA Regularity Championship this year, so a top 20 finish would be good going. A repeat performance of our fun last year would be a big result for Rob and I. The sportscar class looks fun though ...... 8 or 9 TR's, all friends to play with ..... Lots of Alfa's, Porsche's and Volvo 122 and 123's in too, so plenty competition on the quick stuff. Kind regards Tony Tony Sheach Partner Peter Brett Associates Caversham Bridge House Waterman Place Reading Berkshire RG1 8DN Tel: +44 (0) 118 950 0761 Fax: +44 (0) 118 959 7498 Mob: +44 (0) 7771 820 730 Web: www.pba.co.uk E: tsheach at pba.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com [mailto:N197TR4 at cs.com] Sent: 24 October 2007 13:58 To: Tony Sheach; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend let us know how you and 3VC do.... Aw shucks ...... Now you're embarassing me ....... I was just killing time until the low loader arrived to scoop me up and also trying to keep my oily fingers warm ....! But I do hope to see you all at the Glen. As a little footnote: the damage to the gearbox is huge, propshaft shredded, overdrive unit was spread over about 200 m of her majesty's highway around a uniforn trail of new millers gearbox oil ..... But my laptop bag caught most of the big bits (thanks DELL ..... I knew if was expensive for a reason) and the fibreglass reinforced tunnel, speedo cable a old seatbelt that I glued inside it held the rest in place until I got out of hyperspace ..... So I'd recommend a prop / output shaft catcher to any one. Now using 3VC again on ROTT next week so listen for the howls of protest as the old girl does her thing and (hopefully) brings home a bootful of trophies for the third year in succession. Regards and go steady. Tony ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl _ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email is used as a convenient medium for rapid data transfer. Any contractual correspondence sent or received by email will not be held to be such unless and until it is received in writing by a Fax or Letter. Likewise file attachments must be treated as uncontrolled documents until issued as hard copy. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this email please notify the author by replying to this email and delete the email. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use or disclose, print or rely on this email. Any OS Data attached to this email is issued in accordance with Licence No. 100017583 under condition that it is used to plot once and not retained on the recipients computer system. The Partnership accepts no liability for the contents of emails unconnected with the affairs of the firm or its clients. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl - www.blackspider.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 24 07:22:14 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:22:14 EDT Subject: [Fot] Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend Message-ID: Thanks Tony. I suspect most of us enjoy these reports. Joe A > Will do ...... Were starting number 18 of 85 and it's a round of the > International FIA Regularity Championship this year, so a top 20 finish > would be good going. A repeat performance of our fun last year would be > a big result for Rob and I. > > The sportscar class looks fun though ...... 8 or 9 TR's, all friends to > play with ..... Lots of Alfa's, Porsche's and Volvo 122 and 123's in > too, so plenty competition on the quick stuff. > > > Kind regards > > Tony > From TSheach at pba.co.uk Wed Oct 24 07:22:09 2007 From: TSheach at pba.co.uk (Tony Sheach) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:22:09 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBFF9847DB8E446AD5BA723E4123058057495BF@cbh-srv-exc.PBA.INT> ** YOU'LL NEED PANDO TO OPEN THIS ATTACHMENT. ** ** Get Pando free here: www.pando.com/download ** Here's one from last year ....... Passed the MGB no long outside the start control, I recall overhauling a Cooper S and something else before the finish ..... Kind regards Tony Tony Sheach Partner Peter Brett Associates Caversham Bridge House Waterman Place Reading Berkshire RG1 8DN Tel: +44 (0) 118 950 0761 Fax: +44 (0) 118 959 7498 Mob: +44 (0) 7771 820 730 Web: www.pba.co.uk E: tsheach at pba.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com [mailto:N197TR4 at cs.com] Sent: 24 October 2007 13:58 To: Tony Sheach; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Tony Sheach awaiting a lorrie. now 3VC next weekend let us know how you and 3VC do.... Aw shucks ...... Now you're embarassing me ....... I was just killing time until the low loader arrived to scoop me up and also trying to keep my oily fingers warm ....! But I do hope to see you all at the Glen. As a little footnote: the damage to the gearbox is huge, propshaft shredded, overdrive unit was spread over about 200 m of her majesty's highway around a uniforn trail of new millers gearbox oil ..... But my laptop bag caught most of the big bits (thanks DELL ..... I knew if was expensive for a reason) and the fibreglass reinforced tunnel, speedo cable a old seatbelt that I glued inside it held the rest in place until I got out of hyperspace ..... So I'd recommend a prop / output shaft catcher to any one. Now using 3VC again on ROTT next week so listen for the howls of protest as the old girl does her thing and (hopefully) brings home a bootful of trophies for the third year in succession. Regards and go steady. Tony ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl < http://www.blackspider.com/> _ Pando is free software that lets you email large files and folders, up to 1GB, with your existing email account. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email is used as a convenient medium for rapid data transfer. Any contractual correspondence sent or received by email will not be held to be such unless and until it is received in writing by a Fax or Letter. Likewise file attachments must be treated as uncontrolled documents until issued as hard copy. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this email please notify the author by replying to this email and delete the email. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use or disclose, print or rely on this email. Any OS Data attached to this email is issued in accordance with Licence No. 100017583 under condition that it is used to plot once and not retained on the recipients computer system. The Partnership accepts no liability for the contents of emails unconnected with the affairs of the firm or its clients. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl - www.blackspider.com [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of 19-RT6_1351.jpg.pando] From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 24 08:17:27 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:17:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 roll cage Message-ID: Marty Sukey asked: > Any chance you have some digital > pictures of your bars/cages you could email me to get the thought process > rolling? Marty, Look at http://hottr6.blogspot.com/, specifically the posts for Jan-May 2006. Click on the pictures for a larger view. This cage would not pass inspection for dedicated racers because the front hoop is not high enough, but it will work for auto-X and hill climbs and track days. Fitting the front hoop behind the heater box (so I could stay toasty on cold days) was not as hard as it looks, but did require perseverance. Defrosting the windshield is not as efficient as with stock and I am still working on fabricating a fix. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From SpiwakD at aol.com Wed Oct 24 13:05:34 2007 From: SpiwakD at aol.com (SpiwakD at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:05:34 EDT Subject: [Fot] Rick Rock please email spiwakd@aol.com Message-ID: ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net Wed Oct 24 15:11:09 2007 From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR3 steering box Message-ID: <380-220071032421119315@earthlink.net> I am looking for a steering box assembly for a TR3 with the split column that is very good or excellent condition . Would appreciate any input on this matter...thanks Chip U K MOTORSPORTS tr6racer21 at earthlink.net From Group44TR7 at aol.com Wed Oct 24 15:52:21 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:52:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] Jerry Barker Please Contact Me Offline Message-ID: Please contact me with telephone number. Regards, Cary ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From jibjib at att.net Wed Oct 24 19:02:57 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:02:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Classic Motorsports magazine wall calendar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <012201c816a2$c90e9bf0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Whoa, look at this wasted blatant capitalism. Tim, I think we all already subscribe. I know I am looking forward to both calendars, although the CM calendar gets the place of honor. Jack (known as Jack on your forums) -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 3:18 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Classic Motorsports magazine wall calendar Sorry about the commercial message, but heck, I am a good citizen of the board and supporter of all things Triumph. Plus, we are giivng away calendars again. This year we have a TR3 (not mine) on the calendar. To check it out go to the website below. Thanks. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 Here's the offical mumbo jumbo... Free 2008 wall calendar from Classic Motorsports. Featuring some of the coolest cars and best photography from Classic Motorsports magazine, this 2008 calendar is available free to all Classic Motorsports subscribers. Chock-full of a year's worth of eye candy for your office or garage this high quality calendar measures a full 10" x 17" when open. Each month features a brilliant, full-color photo of one of your favorite classic cars, including favorites from MG, Triumph, Alfa Romeo and Porsche, along with some more unusual picks, like the Lang-Cooper vintage racer, the Isetta microcar and the "Hollywood" Sunbeam Tiger. The 2008 Classic Motorsports calendar is only available for free until Nov 13th. To see if your favorite car is on this calendar or to make sure you get a copy please visit http://classicmotorsports.net/calendar/ Not ready to subscribe? You can still purchase this calendar from the Classic Motorsports Store at https://ssl.grmotorsports.com/grm-store.php for a limited time. And if you would like to order bulk copies for your club, give us a call at 888-676-9747 for special pricing. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com jibjib at att.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gasket.works at gte.net Wed Oct 24 23:07:48 2007 From: gasket.works at gte.net (res00cbl) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:07:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] a few new uploads... References: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20071020013257.VGFV13814.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <00c501c812c8$9ec68a70$0a10c548@RW> Message-ID: <000301c816c4$fd1bfc90$2502a8c0@SPARTAN113> http://fot-racing.com/eventphoto/index.html Winner at the Miller event Mr. Chuck Gee. http://fot-racing.com/ cool photo... drool. M. Dunst Gasket Works USA, llC 626.358.1616 phone 626.628.3777 facsimile gmt -8 Pacific From gasket.works at gte.net Wed Oct 24 23:14:14 2007 From: gasket.works at gte.net (Mordy Dunst/Gasket Works) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:14:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] a few new uploads... References: <430081.97945.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20071020013257.VGFV13814.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <00c501c812c8$9ec68a70$0a10c548@RW> <000301c816c4$fd1bfc90$2502a8c0@SPARTAN113> Message-ID: <000c01c816c5$e35c3b20$2502a8c0@SPARTAN113> http://fot-racing.com/eventphoto/index.html Winner at the Miller event Mr. Chuck Gee. http://fot-racing.com/ cool photo... drool. M. Dunst Gasket Works USA, llC 626.358.1616 phone 626.628.3777 facsimile gmt -8 Pacific From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 25 05:23:57 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:23:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] a few new uploads... Message-ID: Terrific! Lot of memories through the whole link..... All been worthwhile. More to come. From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 25 08:51:23 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:51:23 EDT Subject: [Fot] Paging Joe Guinan.... Message-ID: Joe, Steve Smith is looking for you and has important information for you. I also have something for you, too. Joe A From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Oct 25 12:47:00 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:47:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] paging Steve Benford Message-ID: I need a response from him or his email address. Thanks, Joe A From Group44TR7 at aol.com Fri Oct 26 10:58:22 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:58:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Test Message-ID: Have not received FOT emails since early on 10/25. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Fri Oct 26 13:40:50 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:40:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Do tire temperatures tell most of the tire pressure story? Message-ID: <000001c81808$1d4ade70$171a694c@computer> I am dealing with autocross temps and pressures but imagine it would be similar for the race course. On my TR6, I have adjusted alignment to where I have my tire temperatures pretty uniform (within 5 - 7 degrees) across each tire. If I am running 31 lbs front and 29 lbs rear and my tire temperatures are 12 to 15 degrees cooler in the back of the car than the front, would that indicate that I could use less pressure in the rear (as long as the tires don't roll over). In other words, is uniform tire temperature all the way around optimum? Thanks guys, Jim Hearn Sacramento, CA Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From RYoung at navcomtech.com Fri Oct 26 14:41:10 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:41:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Do tire temperatures tell most of the tire pressure story? In-Reply-To: <000001c81808$1d4ade70$171a694c@computer> References: <000001c81808$1d4ade70$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: > In other words, is uniform tire > temperature all the way around optimum? Jim, I'm certainly no expert, and I'm very interested in what others have to say on this subject. But my instinct is that I wouldn't expect temperatures to be the same front/rear, due to differing conditions (especially more weight up front). Randall fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From spitlist at cox.net Fri Oct 26 15:19:22 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:19:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Do tire temperatures tell most of the tire pressure story? References: <000001c81808$1d4ade70$171a694c@computer> Message-ID: <005201c81815$e122e740$2d02a8c0@Belkin> Jim, A lot of it is determined by the tires themselves. When I was doing heavy SCCA autocross on slicks, I was running pressures around 20 psi all around. You will know if the pressure is incorrect if you are getting a variance of temperature across the tread. If the temps are higher on the inside than on the outside, reduce the pressuer until it is even. Conversely, if you are getting higher temps on the edges, you shoule raise the pressure. Street tires are a bit dirrerent in that unless you are running higher than normal pressures, you might get rolling of the edges. So check the wear on the sidewalls and if it is obvious that the tires are rolling over, you will have to raise the pressure to compensate even if your temperature readings say otherwise. One other thing that will cause temperature variences back to front is how the car is working. If you are throwing it heavily into turns it will cause therears to slide and increase the temp. Front tires work more naturally in turns than rears so higher temps are likely. I hope this helps. Joe C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:40 PM Subject: [Fot] Do tire temperatures tell most of the tire pressure story? > I am dealing with autocross temps and pressures but imagine it would be > similar for the race course. On my TR6, I have adjusted alignment to where > I have my tire temperatures pretty uniform (within 5 - 7 degrees) across > each tire. If I am running 31 lbs front and 29 lbs rear and my tire > temperatures are 12 to 15 degrees cooler in the back of the car than the > front, would that indicate that I could use less pressure in the rear (as > long as the tires don't roll over). In other words, is uniform tire > temperature all the way around optimum? > > Thanks guys, > > Jim Hearn > Sacramento, CA > Two '74 TR6s > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > spitlist at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spreiss at verizon.net Fri Oct 26 00:54:25 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:54:25 +1100 Subject: [Fot] head selection. Message-ID: <002a01c8179d$0c60bd70$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> FOT I am preparing to build a high performance engine for use in my 56 TR3. Not a fully tweaked one, but one that I can take to drivers school in the spring and begin to campaign in vintage events. (Plans include updating to modified TR4 front suspension and TR6 brakes as well.) I have purchased a bare block and crank sourced from a TR4A to serve as the basis for the engine build. Question is, what is the preferred head for my application? I plan to do some mild porting and use the larger than stock valves. I have a set of the short-throated HS6s and a 4A intake manifold I'm hoping to use. Does anyone know if this will result in a hood clearance issue? I would like to make an intake plenum with ducted remote filter, though I suspect this would not be allowed by most vintage racing sanctioning bodies. Additional comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks! Steve Preiss From Gt6steve at aol.com Fri Oct 26 18:36:06 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:36:06 EDT Subject: [Fot] SoCal fires diminishing? Message-ID: Sorry to annoy our eastern brethren, This missive is for the Western FOT. Anybody heard from Allen and Alita? How 'bout Mizutani? I think he's OK. Is everybody OK? Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Oct 26 20:09:32 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:09:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] SoCal fires diminishing? References: Message-ID: <006a01c8183e$6a12b8f0$0200a8c0@Desktop> You guys just keep on talking......that's keeping us up to date to Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 8:36 PM Subject: [Fot] SoCal fires diminishing? > Sorry to annoy our eastern brethren, This missive is for the Western FOT. > > Anybody heard from Allen and Alita? How 'bout Mizutani? I think he's OK. > Is everybody OK? Steve > > > ************************************** > See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Fri Oct 26 21:30:03 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 21:30:03 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4722B0BB.5030809@bradakis.com> A LOT of the AOL subscribers on my lists are not getting any mail, it is getting bounced back. I'm hoping I can find some tech folks at AOL with more than 3 working brain cells so the problem can get resolved as soon as possible. mjb. From spitlist at cox.net Fri Oct 26 21:35:30 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:35:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Test In-Reply-To: <4722B0BB.5030809@bradakis.com> References: <4722B0BB.5030809@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <000e01c8184a$6c500850$2202a8c0@newcomputer> I saw an article in yesterday's Tucson paper that stated that AOL (which has a major facility here) is laying off a number of people. That reduces your chances of finding anyone that meets your requirements. Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J. Bradakis Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 8:30 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Test A LOT of the AOL subscribers on my lists are not getting any mail, it is getting bounced back. I'm hoping I can find some tech folks at AOL with more than 3 working brain cells so the problem can get resolved as soon as possible. mjb. spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sat Oct 27 07:07:02 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 08:07:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Burned out TR6's , Chris Bain and Victoria Fox Message-ID: <002c01c8189a$448d72d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> A local clubmember shared this with me. I am not sure if the picture of the cars destroyed and the people found deceased, Chris Bain and Victoria Fox, are connected. This article is from yesterday's NY Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/us/26dead.html?ref=todayspaper Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sat Oct 27 08:08:20 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:08:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] head selection. In-Reply-To: <002a01c8179d$0c60bd70$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> References: <002a01c8179d$0c60bd70$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: <200710271406.l9RE6Nq0490883@ns3.geneseo.net> At 01:54 AM 10/26/2007, you wrote: >FOT >I am preparing to build a high performance engine for use in my 56 TR3. Not a >fully tweaked one, but one that I can take to drivers school in the spring and >begin to campaign in vintage events. (Plans include updating to modified TR4 >front suspension and TR6 brakes as well.) >I have purchased a bare block and crank sourced from a TR4A to serve as the >basis for the engine build. Question is, what is the preferred head for my >application? I plan to do some mild porting and use the larger than stock >valves. The heads are virtually identical with the exception of the intake port diameter at the manifold face of the head. Both new and old heads flow about the same on the flow bench, despite the common general opinion that the later small port head flows better. Even with significant porting work, the big port head and small port head can flow about the same. However, you should use a head late enough that it has a flat on the bottom side of the front water outlet to clear the water pump housing. The really early heads require a LOT of grinding there. > I have a set of the short-throated HS6s and a 4A intake manifold I'm >hoping to use. Does anyone know if this will result in a hood clearance issue? This combination does not craeate a hood interference. Since the carbs are shorter and the manifold longer, the carbs end up in the same place. >I would like to make an intake plenum with ducted remote filter, though I >suspect this would not be allowed by most vintage racing sanctioning bodies. Sanctioning bodies vary in their view of this. >Additional comments or suggestions would be appreciated. >Thanks! >Steve Preiss Good luck with your project! >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From Gt6steve at aol.com Sat Oct 27 08:55:29 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:55:29 EDT Subject: [Fot] What color's your chassis? Message-ID: Opinions solicited...For the racer, do you like the frame black, body color or machinery gray? I think gray is common on formula cars to expose cracks? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From Fubog1 at aol.com Sat Oct 27 09:18:39 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:18:39 EDT Subject: [Fot] What color's your chassis? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/27/2007 10:55:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Gt6steve at aol.com writes: I think gray is common on formula cars to expose cracks? ...in a perfect world EVERYTHING would be machinery gray! g. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sat Oct 27 10:05:01 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:05:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Would your evac plans involve the triumph Message-ID: <000801c818b3$21c79640$0501000a@Chowdown> If, let's say your home was under threat of fire, which as a CA resident I did consider at one point or another, would you make sure to get the car onto the trailer and take it with you? From S.Janzen at comcast.net Sat Oct 27 10:21:41 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:21:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Would your evac plans involve the triumph References: <000801c818b3$21c79640$0501000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <004101c818b5$7578d720$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Funny, looking at those photos of people camped out at the stadium, my thought was that I would take my trailer and live in it. However, given enough time, I'd probably load in the car and then unload it when I got to somewhere to camp out. Others in my household might have different opinions about what to load in the trailer from the house though. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 12:05 PM Subject: [Fot] Would your evac plans involve the triumph > If, let's say your home was under threat of fire, which as a CA resident I > did > consider at one point or another, would you make sure to get the car onto > the > trailer and take it with you? > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jmwagner at greenheart.com Sat Oct 27 12:10:25 2007 From: jmwagner at greenheart.com (Justin Wagner) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:10:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Passing this along - "Used Camshaft for TR6 and TR250 S2 Kastner $50" Message-ID: <47237F11.50802@greenheart.com> http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/pts/460811836.html Reply to: sale-460811836 at craigslist.org Date: 2007-10-26, 5:42PM PDT Two Original Fuel Pumps with Lever [TR6].$25.Triumph Badge for TR250 trunk lid,unused,$30 TR3 Speedo and Tach $50 each...TR3 Original Fan Assembly $35..Used Camshaft for TR6 and TR250 S2 Kastner $50 * Location: Tujunga CA * it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests PostingID: 460811836 From jfrymark at aol.com Sat Oct 27 12:29:16 2007 From: jfrymark at aol.com (John Frymark) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:29:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racecar evacuation Message-ID: <527083C8-C784-4CB1-A94E-28F78DCA3970@aol.com> My thoughts: Insure the car for a declared value needed to buy a replacement. In the event of fire, grab all the spares and pit equipment that won't tolerate "heat treating". You will never get fair reimbursement for these things John Frymark PS. Alan Mitzutani is OK. From tr4.tony at virgin.net Sat Oct 27 12:42:08 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:42:08 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Racecar evacuation References: <527083C8-C784-4CB1-A94E-28F78DCA3970@aol.com> Message-ID: <001401c818c9$14b330c0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> any more from Kas ? all ok with you ? rgds Tony ps ..... now prepping 2nd entry for ROTT .....we also have 3 blue TR4's entering as a team ..... suggestions for names ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frymark" To: "steve Belfer" ; "Steve Smith" Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 7:29 PM Subject: [Fot] Racecar evacuation > My thoughts: Insure the car for a declared value needed to buy a > replacement. In the event of fire, grab all the spares and pit > equipment that won't tolerate "heat treating". You will never get > fair reimbursement for these things > > John Frymark > > PS. Alan Mitzutani is OK. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > tr4.tony at virgin.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From chasgee at aol.com Sat Oct 27 13:18:49 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:18:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] SoCal fires diminishing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9E6E55638A69C-B58-73@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> Everyone is fine.? Allen and Aleta can't get back to their house until Sunday or Monday, but they do have a house to get back to. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 5:36 pm Subject: [Fot] SoCal fires diminishing? Sorry to annoy our eastern brethren, This missive is for the Western FOT. Anybody heard from Allen and Alita? How 'bout Mizutani? I think he's OK. Is everybody OK? Steve ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com chasgee at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From kaskas at cox.net Sat Oct 27 13:32:53 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:32:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racecar evacuation References: <527083C8-C784-4CB1-A94E-28F78DCA3970@aol.com> <001401c818c9$14b330c0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Message-ID: <000701c818d0$2b42ee50$0a10c548@RW> Everything is fine here. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TR4Tony" To: "John Frymark" ; "steve Belfer" ; "Steve Smith" Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Racecar evacuation > any more from Kas ? all ok with you ? > rgds > Tony > > ps ..... now prepping 2nd entry for ROTT .....we also have 3 blue TR4's > entering as a team ..... suggestions for names ? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Frymark" > To: "steve Belfer" ; "Steve Smith" > > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 7:29 PM > Subject: [Fot] Racecar evacuation > > >> My thoughts: Insure the car for a declared value needed to buy a >> replacement. In the event of fire, grab all the spares and pit >> equipment that won't tolerate "heat treating". You will never get >> fair reimbursement for these things >> >> John Frymark >> >> PS. Alan Mitzutani is OK. >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> tr4.tony at virgin.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sat Oct 27 13:35:56 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:35:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Passing this along - "Used Camshaft for TR6 and TR250 S2 Kastner $50" References: <47237F11.50802@greenheart.com> Message-ID: <001101c818d0$98124ee0$0a10c548@RW> That S-2 camshaft if one of my original parts (my name is stamped on the back of the rear bearing journal) would be a great core to use for a bigger cam as it was ground from a blank factory core and has full size lobes. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Wagner" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:10 AM Subject: [Fot] Passing this along - "Used Camshaft for TR6 and TR250 S2 Kastner $50" > http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/pts/460811836.html > > Reply to: sale-460811836 at craigslist.org > > Date: 2007-10-26, 5:42PM PDT > > > Two Original Fuel Pumps with Lever [TR6].$25.Triumph Badge for TR250 > trunk lid,unused,$30 TR3 Speedo and Tach $50 each...TR3 Original Fan > Assembly $35..Used Camshaft for TR6 and TR250 S2 Kastner $50 > > > > > > > > * Location: Tujunga CA > * it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other > commercial interests > > > PostingID: 460811836 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > kaskas at cox.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Oct 27 13:51:09 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:51:09 EDT Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn--FoT Host Hotel for the Glen 2008 (hotel proposal forthcoming) Message-ID: FoT, I put in for 'request for proposal' based on reserving (10) rooms at the Hampton Inn in Painted Post, New York. I should have a response within a couple of days. Two of these rooms are spoken for. If you wanted to be included on this list, please let me know. The cost will be about $100/per night. Most rooms will have two beds (shared expenses?) Sidebar comment: The list of attendees has gotten impressive, in number and names. Thanks! Joe Alexander From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 27 14:13:07 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:13:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn--FoT Host Hotel for the Glen 2008 (hotel proposal forthcoming) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <217820.18583.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Joe: Not to step on your parade, but someone had indicated there was a potential for renting camping trailers for the weekend. Anyone know anything more on this? Thanks, Ernie N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT, I put in for 'request for proposal' based on reserving (10) rooms at the Hampton Inn in Painted Post, New York. I should have a response within a couple of days. Two of these rooms are spoken for. If you wanted to be included on this list, please let me know. The cost will be about $100/per night. Most rooms will have two beds (shared expenses?) Sidebar comment: The list of attendees has gotten impressive, in number and names. Thanks! Joe Alexander ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Group44TR7 at aol.com Sat Oct 27 14:34:04 2007 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 16:34:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Motorsport Library/Museum Message-ID: About a year ago I sent in an inquiry to them about the first SCCA national held at Watkins Glen. They just very recently responded to the inquiry that they had some information and photographs from the specific event. I responded with a inquiry about how to get copies of information, no response has come from my inquiry. Anyone have past experience dealing with this organization? CP ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From cak at dimebank.com Sat Oct 27 14:37:41 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Would your evac plans involve the triumph Message-ID: <200710272037.l9RKbf1t015544@moose.dimebank.com> I saw a photo yesterday (I think) in the NYT that showed a burned down house, and in front of it were the easily recognizable remains of a TR6 and a TR4 or 4A ... yes, here it is. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/us/26dead.html These folks had more to worry about than their Triumphs, I fear - though they might have been trying to evacuate them. From jmwagner at greenheart.com Sat Oct 27 15:52:19 2007 From: jmwagner at greenheart.com (Justin Wagner) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:52:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 1952 Triumph Renown Seller seeks Assistance In pricing Car Message-ID: <4723B312.2080405@greenheart.com> I've been in contact with this seller, via e-mail, and he was having difficulty pricing the car. I am not very familiar with Renowns, so I was of no help. If anyone has experience with these cars or is an interested buyer, here is his info below. (I do not know the seller and I have not seen the car.) --Justin SELLER INFO: David Sells 1952 Triumph Renown ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Reply to: sale-459961746 at craigslist.org Date: 2007-10-25, 9:22PM PDT 1952 Triumph Renown in excellent conditioned....garaged for years...previous owner was Brian Ahearn's father.... LINK to his ad on Craigs List: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/car/459961746.html From alfetta95 at optonline.net Sat Oct 27 16:15:29 2007 From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (alfetta95 at optonline.net) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:15:29 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Fot] What color's your chassis? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I went white on the frame. Saw a pic in some book and thought it looked cool. Black suspension parts. Good looking until first "off" then who cares. Todd Redmond ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com Date: Saturday, October 27, 2007 10:55 am Subject: [Fot] What color's your chassis? To: FOT at autox.team.net > Opinions solicited...For the racer, do you like the frame black, > body color > or machinery gray? I think gray is common on formula cars to > expose cracks? > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > alfetta95 at optonline.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Herald948 at aol.com Sat Oct 27 17:42:44 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:42:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] What color's your chassis? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/27/2007 10:55:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Gt6 steve at aol.com writes: Opinions solicited...For the racer, do you like the frame black, body color or machinery gray? I think gray is common on formula cars to expose cracks? ==AM== ISTR that many of the "Works" Triumphs (particularly Le Mans Spitfires) had white or light grey frames at least in part for this very purpose. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From trhouse at greenapple.com Sat Oct 27 20:01:20 2007 From: trhouse at greenapple.com (Tom Householder) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:01:20 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Dorothy Deen, March 28, 1922 - October 23, 2007 Message-ID: I just recieved this from Jonathan Stien, Dorothy and Jim were on my mind this week with the fires . I'd checked the maps to see that they were out of it all. Sincereley a couple of the finest people I have ever met. Tom Householder For Immediate Release Contact: Jonathan A. Stein 610/779-9710 610/779-3705 fax American British Car Legend Dies Dorothy Deen, March 28, 1922 - October 23, 2007 Oceanside California, October 23, 2007. As raging wildfires threatened her Southern California home, Dorothy Deen Sitz died in a nearby Oceanside hospital after a long illness. The vivacious blonde Deen was best known for the Doretti sports car, a line of sports car accessories of the same name and for importing Triumph Sports cars for the Western United States. A darling of the local and automotive press, she was a common fixture at races and promoting the sports cars she sold. Born in Hollywood, Calif., to engineer and businessman Arthur Andersen and Martha Schultz Andersen, Dorothy grew up in a time when women either stayed home with children or worked as secretaries and telephone operators. At an early age, Dorothy Andersen had other ideas. Her career started as a teenager test driving the Whizzer motor bicycles her father had redesigned. She graduated to a mail order business selling gasoline model airplane engines her father also designed and manufactured. Growing up in Los Angeles, Dorothy had always been interested in cars, but the interest really took off in 1950 when she took delivery of a brand new Ivory MG TD, which was followed by several sporty Simcas. Instantly, she was propelled into a world of rallies, clubs and races. Although her later business interests prevented her from racing, she and her father often ran their cars on an abandoned airfield near the Andersen beach house. The next business venture forever changed Dorothy9s life. Unable to find high-quality accessories for her MG and her father9s Morgans, the pair designed and marketed their own wind wings, sun visors, luggage racks, valve covers in addition to wood and aluminum steering wheels. With backing from Andersen and in partnership with machinist Paul Bernhardt, Cal Specialties was born. To make the Cal Specialties line sound more exciting, the partners took the first three letters of Dorothy9s name, and turned it into the Italianate 3Doretti.2 . Through his work with thin-wall steel tubing, Andersen became involved with the Standard Swallow Company that was building a sports car based on Triumph TR2 running gear. In partnership with Dorothy, Andersen took on distribution of the new car in the U.S. and simultaneously picked up Western distribution rights for Triumph. Not only would Dorothy import the cars, but for a single dollar she sold the rights to the Doretti name that soon graced the attractive new two-seater. After Doretti production ended in 1955, Deen continued to import Triumphs until the company bought out all distributors in 1960. She then became the 45th woman in the world to earn her helicopter pilot9s license and later co-owned and managed an aircraft dealership. She later returned to UCLA to become a para legal on her intended but never completed--route to becoming an attorney. Along the way she declined Max Hoffman9s offer of a West Coast BMW distributorship and opted for a life of retirement and travel with her late husband, Tony Anthony, whom she met when he sold her that first MG TD sports cars years earlier. She is survived by automotive historian Jim Sitz, her husband of 16 years. For more information, contact Jonathan A. Stein, 610/779-9710 or jonathanastein at aol.com. 7450 Valley View Lane Reading, PA 19606, USA; 610\779-9710 (fax: 610/779-3705); cell: 484/824-2660; jonathanstein at aol.com From klynch_6 at msn.com Sat Oct 27 20:58:44 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:58:44 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Question Message-ID: Can you replace a 1147 Spit motor with a 1500 without too much problem? Thanx! Kevin From spitlist at cox.net Sat Oct 27 21:11:18 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:11:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001e01c81910$3648a200$2202a8c0@newcomputer> The dimensions of the two engines are identical. Also the gearbox attachments are also the same. So it is a "Piece of cake" Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of KEVIN LYNCH Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 7:59 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Question Can you replace a 1147 Spit motor with a 1500 without too much problem? Thanx! Kevin spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From klynch_6 at msn.com Sat Oct 27 22:03:20 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:03:20 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Question References: <001e01c81910$3648a200$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: Thank you Joe. Kev ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Curry To: 'KEVIN LYNCH' ; 'FOT' Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 9:11 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Question The dimensions of the two engines are identical. Also the gearbox attachments are also the same. So it is a "Piece of cake" Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of KEVIN LYNCH Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 7:59 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Question Can you replace a 1147 Spit motor with a 1500 without too much problem? Thanx! Kevin _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sun Oct 28 01:27:34 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 01:27:34 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Questions about Watkins Glen in ' 08 Message-ID: <000201c81934$028ae530$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> I am hoping to make it to Watkins Glen in ' 08 and with luck get sponsored to go. I would really like to speak/correspond with someone that's raced there to familiarize with some of the details of racing at The Glen. I have tried to download certain info from the website but their downloads are scrambled at the moment. Besides, media kits and the like can't tell me what another driver can. Any help would be appreciated. Jim G RMVR # 102 From gp89 at charter.net Sun Oct 28 07:39:07 2007 From: gp89 at charter.net (gp89 at charter.net) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 6:39:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071028093907.OHFDB.128543.root@fepweb02> The throttle linkage is a cable on the 1500. You will also need a later style yoke for the front u joint to fit the transmission. Jeff Senty gp89 ---- KEVIN LYNCH wrote: > Can you replace a 1147 Spit motor with a 1500 without too much problem? > > Thanx! > > Kevin > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > gp89 at charter.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Fubog1 at aol.com Sun Oct 28 07:58:41 2007 From: Fubog1 at aol.com (Fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 09:58:41 EDT Subject: [Fot] Question Message-ID: In a message dated 10/27/2007 9:59:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, klynch_6 at msn.com writes: Can you replace a 1147 Spit motor with a 1500 without too much problem? the only problem you'll have is that the 1500 will likely hand-grenade on a regular basis... HTH Glen ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From BillDentin at aol.com Sun Oct 28 10:05:20 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:05:20 EDT Subject: [Fot] Dorothy Deen, March 28, 1922 - October 23, 2007 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/27/2007 8:01:58 PM Central Standard Time, trhouse at greenapple.com writes: > Oceanside California, October 23, 2007. > As raging wildfires threatened her Southern California home, Dorothy Deen > Sitz died in a nearby Oceanside hospital after a long illness. The vivacious > blonde Deen was best known for the Doretti sports car, a line of sports car > accessories of the same name and for importing Triumph Sports cars for the > Western United States. A darling of the local and automotive press, she was > a common fixture at races and promoting the sports cars she sold. > How very sad. An important player in early TRIUMPH history on this side of the pond. Bill Dentinger ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 29 07:36:43 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:36:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen-Hampton Inn 2008 Message-ID: FoT Based on the response to the Hampton Inn as 'Host Hotel', I will likely up the number of rooms forecasted to 15 or 20, especially if it makes a difference in pricing. As soon as I get the "Proposal" back, I will forward the information to everyone so they can make their own reservations, with arrival and departure dates. I expect that the key words will be "Friends of Triumph". Note: The address for this Hotel is "Corning" but the Hotel is actually in Painted Post. Regards, Joe From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 29 08:13:07 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:13:07 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen-Planning Spreadsheet on Entrants and Attendees Message-ID: FoT, I have this huge list of entrants and attendees. It is somewhat incomplete, but Tom Strange has volunteered to take it over and develop an expanded Excel Spreadsheet with information. This is really appreciated. Thanks Tom! When he is ready, some of the information can be published on the FoT Website, with some help from Henry Frye. Sometime after the first of the year, our major sponsor, Classic Motorsports Magazine, will put together a blurb on the WG Grand Prix. Along with this Tim will publish the name of the ENTRANTS, as we know them at that point. Tim has done this in the past. (Walter Mitty) I sent the Excel Spreadsheet LIST to Tom this weekend, and when he is ready, he will be asking for further information. Thanks for the cooperation....and thanks again, Tom! Regards, Joe A From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Oct 29 08:40:10 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Paging Mr. Frye Message-ID: Hi, Henry Frye - I need you e-mail address. Thanks. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Oct 29 08:46:09 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Cancel Page Message-ID: Hi, Nevermind! I found it. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 29 08:56:27 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:56:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen-Planning Spreadsheet on Entrants and Attendees In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <168044.47850.qm@web81112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Good morning everyone ;>) Thanks, Joe, for the note to the list. I did volunteer to do this, and will be looking for info as we proceed. For now, if anyone wants to add or delete their name from the list, I will put people down as having a car or not, and I'll probably add info as we go to make it easier for everyone to plan things such as the motel, T-shirts, paddock space, activities and such. I welcome any kind of info, such as, i'd like to come, but dont know... I'll definitley be there ... etc. If plans change, let me know and I can move names, cars etc to whatever column seems to be appropriate. I have most email addresses, but am lacking a few, so emailing would be best. That way, we have a way to contact the list of people as developments and news come available. This looks like a big planning event for Joe, so I'm sure that at some point, any info we have will be needed or helpful to someone. Send me any info you like, and I"ll track it for whoever needs it... I may well ask for other things later on as the need arises. Hope to see you all there. Thanks, PS. The sooner the better on any of this, it is all flexible, and can be changed as we go... N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: FoT, I have this huge list of entrants and attendees. It is somewhat incomplete, but Tom Strange has volunteered to take it over and develop an expanded Excel Spreadsheet with information. This is really appreciated. Thanks Tom! When he is ready, some of the information can be published on the FoT Website, with some help from Henry Frye. Sometime after the first of the year, our major sponsor, Classic Motorsports Magazine, will put together a blurb on the WG Grand Prix. Along with this Tim will publish the name of the ENTRANTS, as we know them at that point. Tim has done this in the past. (Walter Mitty) I sent the Excel Spreadsheet LIST to Tom this weekend, and when he is ready, he will be asking for further information. Thanks for the cooperation....and thanks again, Tom! Regards, Joe A tstrange at sbcglobal.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From jsnook at wcnet.org Mon Oct 29 10:33:48 2007 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:33:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Member Message-ID: <009a01c81a49$7b9890b0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Hi all, While at Mid Ohio a couple weeks ago a guy named Bill Tobin approached me about FOT and some questions about rear hubs for a TR6 vintage racer. I am copying him on this so if anyone can help, contact him directly. I guess this is also a nomination to the FOT list if he is not all ready a member. Thanks, Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Oct 29 10:36:11 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:36:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] TR6 Member In-Reply-To: <009a01c81a49$7b9890b0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> References: <009a01c81a49$7b9890b0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Oct 2007, Jeff Snook wrote: > Hi all, > > While at Mid Ohio a couple weeks ago a guy named Bill Tobin approached me > about FOT and some questions about rear hubs for a TR6 vintage racer. > > I am copying him on this so if anyone can help, contact him directly. > > I guess this is also a nomination to the FOT list if he is not all ready a > member. SECOND! > Thanks, > > Jeff Snook > http://www.snooksdreamcars.com regards, rml (TR6 racer) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fasttrs at mindspring.com Mon Oct 29 12:40:02 2007 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:40:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Member In-Reply-To: <009a01c81a49$7b9890b0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> References: <009a01c81a49$7b9890b0$6401a8c0@JeffSnook> Message-ID: <000f01c81a5b$1e19e9e0$6401a8c0@mikek6u8bickf2> I'll third him. I may try to talk him out of racing a TR6 though. I may have a line on a set. Mike -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+fasttrs=mindspring.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Snook Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 11:34 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Subject: [Fot] TR6 Member Hi all, While at Mid Ohio a couple weeks ago a guy named Bill Tobin approached me about FOT and some questions about rear hubs for a TR6 vintage racer. I am copying him on this so if anyone can help, contact him directly. I guess this is also a nomination to the FOT list if he is not all ready a member. Thanks, Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com fasttrs at mindspring.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From S.Janzen at comcast.net Mon Oct 29 13:31:04 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:31:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] GT6 Project in Philadelphia area available References: Message-ID: <004b01c81a62$3f8be8b0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> A friend of mine has a complete disassembled GT6 ('68?) and a second later car sans engine and trans. They started to make a vintage race car and stopped, w/o much progress being made. Chassis was gone through, painted, new bushings, front coil-overs etc but has been sitting on and under a tarp for a few years outside. Body looks like there may be some rot in the front part of the outer rockers but generally very solid, in white primer, totally stripped. All interior stuff in boxes. Rear is swing axle, no hood or quarter panel vents so I am guessing at the age. No mfg plate or title. Second body is probably a 69-70, later rear suspension, body in worse condition, and bonnet is rusty in the lower front areas and the hood lip is dented. Interior non existent except for dash. Al (those of you who race SVRA in the East may know him from his lime yellow 55 Vette which he and his son race) is looking for $800 for all. Good starting point for a vintage race project but not for the faint-hearted. Located in western Philadelphia PA suburbs. Contact me if you are interested and I will get you in touch with Al. Thanks! Scott s.janzen at comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 6:17 AM Subject: [Fot] Classic Motorsports magazine wall calendar > Sorry about the commercial message, but heck, I am a good citizen of the > board and supporter of all things Triumph. Plus, we are giivng away > calendars > again. This year we have a TR3 (not mine) on the calendar. To check it out > go to > the website below. Thanks. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > Here's the offical mumbo jumbo... > > Free 2008 wall calendar from Classic Motorsports. > > Featuring some of the coolest cars and best photography from Classic > Motorsports magazine, this 2008 calendar is available free to all Classic > Motorsports > subscribers. Chock-full of a year's worth of eye candy for your office or > garage this high quality calendar measures a full 10" x 17" when open. > Each month > features a brilliant, full-color photo of one of your favorite classic > cars, > including favorites from MG, Triumph, Alfa Romeo and Porsche, along with > some > more unusual picks, like the Lang-Cooper vintage racer, the Isetta > microcar and > the "Hollywood" Sunbeam Tiger. > > The 2008 Classic Motorsports calendar is only available for free until Nov > 13th. To see if your favorite car is on this calendar or to make sure you > get a > copy please visit http://classicmotorsports.net/calendar/ > > Not ready to subscribe? You can still purchase this calendar from the > Classic > Motorsports Store at https://ssl.grmotorsports.com/grm-store.php for a > limited time. And if you would like to order bulk copies for your club, > give us a > call at 888-676-9747 for special pricing. > > > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > > > ************************************** > See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 16:06:13 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:06:13 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a city lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. Battery and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. Photos at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 -- Chuck Arnold From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Oct 29 16:13:08 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:13:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Message-ID: Chuck! We all hope it will be recovered....Keep us posted. Did you put anything out on the Vintage-Race list? Joe A > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > From tr4.tony at virgin.net Mon Oct 29 16:20:30 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 22:20:30 -0000 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001301c81a79$ead7b7f0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Chuck Ill post this on the TR Register site tonight. Hope it helps you get it back. Regards Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Friends" Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:06 PM Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a > city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. > Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > tr4.tony at virgin.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 16:31:29 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:31:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Need a '69 TR6 body Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710291531i23bc899bqf6a35c3932bf6857@mail.gmail.com> Just in case I do not get my stolen TR5 race car back: I will "convert" my '74 TR6 into a '69 so I can vintage race it. I would appreciate any leads on a '69 TR6 that needs a "total restore" as I really just need the tub. Thanks, Chuck Arnold From S.Janzen at comcast.net Mon Oct 29 16:35:21 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:35:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008a01c81a7b$fdca43d0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> You should spread this around to all vintage race organizations, restoration shops, exporters, etc so that if this car ever shows up it is identified and returned. That really sucks! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Friends" Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 6:06 PM Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a > city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. > Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Oct 29 16:42:25 2007 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:42:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Chuck Can't believe someone could easily get rid of a car like that without raising a lot of interest from the TR community. I may be the only person on the list who doesn't know your location. It would help for people on the look-out for the car/trailer or parts to know where the car was stolen from. Good luck Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Chuck Arnold Sent: October 29, 2007 6:06 PM To: Friends Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a city lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. Battery and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. Photos at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 -- Chuck Arnold macdonaldp at rogers.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 16:49:43 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:49:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710291549g3fdbc907ne58856ceba967637@mail.gmail.com> I live in, and the car was stolen in Seattle, WA. On 10/29/07, Paul MacDonald wrote: > > > Hi Chuck > > Can't believe someone could easily get rid of a car like that without > raising a lot of interest from the TR community. > > I may be the only person on the list who doesn't know your location. It > would help for people on the look-out for the car/trailer or parts to know > where the car was stolen from. > > Good luck > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+macdonaldp=rogers.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of > Chuck Arnold > Sent: October 29, 2007 6:06 PM > To: Friends > Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a > city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under > hood. Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > macdonaldp at rogers.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Chuck Arnold From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Mon Oct 29 16:57:10 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:57:10 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen References: Message-ID: <004c01c81a7f$0a2c3fe0$0200a8c0@Desktop> What state does Chuck live in? Don't forget the local car clubs ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > Chuck! > > We all hope it will be recovered....Keep us posted. > > Did you put anything out on the Vintage-Race list? > > Joe A > > >> >> Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed >> receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I >> left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a >> city >> lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I >> park]. >> No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. >> >> Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. >> Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. >> Battery >> and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. >> Mallory >> distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. >> >> Photos at: >> http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 >> >> -- >> Chuck Arnold >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > wensley_tr at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From walt at hot-tr6.com Mon Oct 29 18:33:57 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:33:57 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FW: Emailing: OFF THE Clock Message-ID: <20071030013335.C7EC21879C8@autox.team.net> _____ From: Jack SCHULTZ [mailto:jschultz04 at msn.com] Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:13 PM To: Anne Yeck; BERNADETTE VALDEZ; CDLAWYER; Cheryl Skoumal; Dennis Monks; Jack Lind; MARILYN GUNN; Patricia Schaefer; Rich Sotak; RICK; Trish Schwarz; Vicki Jones; Walter Hollowell Subject: Emailing: OFF THE Clock If you can not read the attachment enlarge to 100% [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of OFF THE Clock.jpg] From wgrosenbach at juno.com Mon Oct 29 19:42:07 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:42:07 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Message-ID: <20071029.194207.2484.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Chuck, I've posted your situation to the RMVR Bulletin Board. A few years ago, a member had his truck, trailer w/racer stolen from an hotel parking lot. Towed the whole thing away. They thought it was a contractor's trailer loaded with tools. When they found an unmarketable vintage racer, they abandoned it, stealing the tools. The club and the owner put so much effort into the search, it impressed the investigators so much, they got all the local TV News involved. They got great air time and had a viewer spot the trailer. May your fortunes be so good, Bill From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Oct 29 20:05:15 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:05:15 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen References: Message-ID: Chuck, also, don't forget to monitor www.racecars.com . My condolences. Kevin Denver ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: triosan at gmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Chuck! We all hope it will be recovered....Keep us posted. Did you put anything out on the Vintage-Race list? Joe A > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jeff_durant at comcast.net Mon Oct 29 21:13:25 2007 From: jeff_durant at comcast.net (jeff_durant at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 03:13:25 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <969553218-1193714122-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-365666944-@bxe103.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Chuck, As mentioned on the phone, you have a lot of friends here that will be looking for your car. I'll spread the word and keep a close look out for your TR5. Jeff Durant Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "KEVIN LYNCH" Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:05:15 To:, , Subject: Re: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Chuck, also, don't forget to monitor www.racecars.com . My condolences. Kevin Denver ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: triosan at gmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Chuck! We all hope it will be recovered....Keep us posted. Did you put anything out on the Vintage-Race list? Joe A > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html jeff_durant at comcast.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Mon Oct 29 21:36:50 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:36:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: <969553218-1193714122-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-365666944-@bxe103.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <969553218-1193714122-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-365666944-@bxe103.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <000b01c81aa6$1b842ec0$2202a8c0@newcomputer> I am thinking that if I just stole a car that was virtually un-sellable in the US, I would be loading it on a container and putting it on one of those ships that are parked along Elliot Bay. Either that or part it out. I don't know what sort of alert could be placed at the container port in Seattle, but that might be something to consider. Good Luck, Joe C. -----Original Message----- Chuck, As mentioned on the phone, you have a lot of friends here that will be looking for your car. I'll spread the word and keep a close look out for your TR5. Jeff Durant Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From jfrymark at aol.com Mon Oct 29 21:49:57 2007 From: jfrymark at aol.com (John Frymark) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:49:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 11, Issue 55 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4626397A-87BD-4390-A785-95C33FDB3C77@aol.com> Chuck, I posted your info on the VARA message boards. Hope you get some good news soon. John Frymark On Oct 29, 2007, at 6:33 PM, fot-request at autox.team.net wrote: > Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:06:13 -0700 > From: "Chuck Arnold" > Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > To: Friends > Message-ID: > <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was > when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long > in a city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I > park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior > markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. > Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. > Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Mon Oct 29 23:48:09 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 22:48:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stolen Car Message-ID: <001501c81ab8$73e7b9d0$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> I'm really sorry to hear about your car, I'd be sick too. Have hope though, as Bill put it, it's likely someone thought it was full of tools or copper pipe or wire and stole it for that reason. I can't ever remember a race car that was stolen and never recovered. Good luck, Jim Gray From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Tue Oct 30 06:35:17 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:35:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen Message-ID: <000e01c81af1$53fa9230$0200a8c0@Desktop> Chuck A little more information on the trailer, as go down the highway would be helpful do you have any pictures of the it how many doors are on it color just white tag number >>> Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior >>> markings. >>> Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. >>> Battery >>> and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. >>> Mallory >>> distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. >>> >>> Photos at: >>> http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 >>> >>> -- >>> Chuck Arnold >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> wensley_tr at comcast.net >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Tue Oct 30 07:43:08 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:43:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com > References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200710301341.l9UDfF8B154450@ns3.geneseo.net> A friend in Chicago had the same experience a couple of years ago. The trailer was later found, tools gone, but car still inside. The police guessed that the thieves were really after the trailer and didn't know how to dispose of the car. We all hope that you have this good fortune - there is still hope. At 05:06 PM 10/29/2007, Chuck Arnold wrote: >Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed >receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I >left. > >-- >Chuck Arnold >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >vinttr4 at geneseo.net >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot uncle jack ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net From walt at hot-tr6.com Tue Oct 30 07:48:23 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 07:48:23 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FW: Emailing: OFF THE Clock Message-ID: <20071030144802.481B5187A4A@autox.team.net> I'll try resending this. It was pretty cute. Karma Kind of sucks Walt in Abq. _____ From: Jack SCHULTZ [mailto:jschultz04 at msn.com] Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:13 PM To: Anne Yeck; BERNADETTE VALDEZ; CDLAWYER; Cheryl Skoumal; Dennis Monks; Jack Lind; MARILYN GUNN; Patricia Schaefer; Rich Sotak; RICK; Trish Schwarz; Vicki Jones; Walter Hollowell Subject: Emailing: OFF THE Clock If you can not read the attachment enlarge to 100% [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of OFF THE Clock.jpg] From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Tue Oct 30 09:33:44 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 07:33:44 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Need a '69 TR6 body References: <8cbd782d0710291531i23bc899bqf6a35c3932bf6857@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <014201c81b0a$432acb00$1a02a8c0@workstation3> Chuck, I have a TR4A car sitting around that maybe I'd part with. It's very similar to the TR5 except the TR5 right front fender has a little bit more recess for the PI/Carbs to fit. I haven't done much with it yet but think it's fairly sound. Just a thought if you want to build a TR5 again. The chassis of the TR6 and TR4A should change with out any problems. What part of the TR6 tub do you need? Let me know what you think. Sorry to hear about your loss. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Friends" ; "Triumph" <6pack at autox.team.net> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 2:31 PM Subject: [Fot] Need a '69 TR6 body > Just in case I do not get my stolen TR5 race car back: I will "convert" my > '74 TR6 into a '69 > so I can vintage race it. I would appreciate any leads on a '69 TR6 that > needs a "total restore" as I really just need the tub. > > Thanks, > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > charly at mitchelplumbing.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 09:12:25 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:12:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: <001101c81af9$4df35270$c59c3e4b@keng> References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> <001101c81af9$4df35270$c59c3e4b@keng> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710300812kfda4d80gc8882b9d9067a942@mail.gmail.com> Unfortunately the trailer is as plain jane as you could get. I purposely had no markings on it indicating a race car. It is white. It has a side door [with the lock broken out]. The inside has gray vinyl flooring. The front right plywood is broken and the outside bends out a little from when the car "got away inside one day" at bumper hight. Plates are 4476 SW, Washington state. Here is what I psoted to our race group: This weekend my 16x7 White Road Force trailer was stolen from the 2400 block of Westlake Ave North in Seattle. My green 1968 Triumph TR5 race car was inside. Car number is 444. Trailer license is 4476SW. If anyone gets a wiff of these please notify the Seattle police. Case number is 07-441715. Pictures at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 On 10/30/07, BFEKen at copper.net wrote: > > Chuck, hopefully when the see the race car, they will dump it quick. > > KEN > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck Arnold" > To: "Friends" > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 2:06 PM > Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > > > > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a > > city > > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I > park]. > > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior > markings. > > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. > > Battery > > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the > injectors. Mallory > > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > > > Photos at: > > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > > > -- > > Chuck Arnold > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > bfeken at copper.net > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Chuck Arnold From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Tue Oct 30 21:12:32 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:12:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very origiinal car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is nice and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and the dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. We are having a tuning problem. With 2 psi fuel pressre at the carb at WOT the engine runs lean, especially at part throttle. The stock spec. calls for "DD" mixture needles. They are way lean. Just bringing the revs up from idle to about 2500 to 3000 rpm with no load the engine spits and runs very rough. Adding fuel makes the engine "rev" right up. We have tried progressively richer needles going from the "DD" to "AN", then to "H-6" and finally to "DK" needles. With the "DK" needles installed the engine runs"GREAT' under any circumstances but I am afraid that it is to rich. I took it on a 35 miles or so road test on Sunday with these needles installed and it was a pleasure to drive! but seemed to just "suck" gas, but this is a subjective judgement as I was not able to measure the fuel economy. Note, the cam, displacement, etc. are all stock in this car. I am at a loss to understand why the needles need to be so much richer than the stock spec to make this car run properly! Does anyone have any ideas or experience with this exact model? Greg Solow From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Tue Oct 30 21:31:27 2007 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:31:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Oil canister o-rings Message-ID: <005801c81b6e$882fddd0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Before I overnight ship them in, does anyone know if the Purolator filter head o-ring crosses over to something off the shelf at my local parts house? I have some spares I bought a long time ago but it turns out they are the wrong size. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Oct 30 21:51:17 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles In-Reply-To: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: <287661.95972.qm@web81202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greg: Perhaps this suggestion is too simple, but, have you checked for manifold air leaks that would cause the mixture to be lean because your sucking air? Could be your adding extra air after the throttle plate; carbs to manifold, manifold to head, hose from manifold to PCV valve bad. Just silly things you've probably checked already. - Ed Greg Solow wrote: We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very origiinal car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is nice and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and the dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. We are having a tuning problem. With 2 psi fuel pressre at the carb at WOT the engine runs lean, especially at part throttle. The stock spec. calls for "DD" mixture needles. They are way lean. Just bringing the revs up from idle to about 2500 to 3000 rpm with no load the engine spits and runs very rough. Adding fuel makes the engine "rev" right up. We have tried progressively richer needles going from the "DD" to "AN", then to "H-6" and finally to "DK" needles. With the "DK" needles installed the engine runs"GREAT' under any circumstances but I am afraid that it is to rich. I took it on a 35 miles or so road test on Sunday with these needles installed and it was a pleasure to drive! but seemed to just "suck" gas, but this is a subjective judgement as I was not able to measure the fuel economy. Note, the cam, displacement, etc. are all stock in this car. I am at a loss to understand why the needles need to be so much richer than the stock spec to make this car run properly! Does anyone have any ideas or experience with this exact model? Greg Solow edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From patrickmannion1 at netzero.net Wed Oct 31 00:39:22 2007 From: patrickmannion1 at netzero.net (patrickmannion1 at netzero.net) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:39:22 GMT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: <20071030.233922.188.0@webmail10.vgs.untd.com> Hello everyone, On this particular Spitfire it idles fine on the "stock needles". Bring the engine RPM up to 3500 to 4500 RPM and the engine just falls flat like it was starving for gas on stock needles. Spraying "Chem-tool" in the throat of the carbs the engine RPM picks up immediately confirming a "fuel starvation" issue. Fuel Pressure and delivery is adequate. Fuel quality is good "not stale gas" (this car had sat for a long time). Fuel tank, has been cleaned fuel filter is new, fuel lines are clear, fuel pump is OK. We did find the feed tube from one of the float bowls to the jet tube was "kinked" after removing the protective spring around the float bowl to jet, (that would certainly have caused a restriction that would have caused fuel starvation). Replace jet/tube to float bowl. Blocked off PCV valve and used a Vacutech smoke machine (basically applies smoke to the engine, a leak in a manifold gasket or throttle shaft shows up as smoke leaking out the origin of what would be a vacuum leak, wonderful tool for looking for vacuum leaks on modern cars).Also tried propane and Chemtool with the engine running to verify integrity of intake manifold gasket, PCV valve. Ignition system is perfect. Ignition coil has great KV output, scope pattern great on an old Sun machine. Compression, cylinder leakage all OK. Even dropped exhaust at the header output thinking what if exhaust was restricted. We had even put a vacuum gauge on the intake manifold to see if back pressure in the exhaust was effecting cylinder filling efficiency as engine RPM increased. Ignition total advance is about 36 degrees. Camshaft lift is uniform, (no bad lobes)!!! Our conclusion is it has to be the mixture needles as it runs great on rich needles. Any suggestions appreciated. thanks Pat Mannion The Engine Room From herald948 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 07:48:38 2007 From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:48:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles In-Reply-To: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> References: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: <8C9E9DBDFCD8BC0-D00-841D@webmail-da18.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Greg Solow We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very origiinal car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is nice and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and the dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. ==AM== Greg, I've no sage words of wisdom about the problem, but I do have a question. Which engine are we talking about here? You mention "stock tubular headers" -- they were "stock" only on the Spitfire 4 Mk2 with the 1147cc, six-port engine (FC series). An original engine for a '68 Mk3 would be an FD series, eight-port, 1296cc. engine. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From klynch_6 at msn.com Wed Oct 31 09:33:48 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:33:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles References: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: Greg, hopefully everything remained on the shelves after the quake from the Calaveras Fault last nite. Was in S Cruz during the 89' Loma Prieta. Happy Halloween Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Solow To: Friends of Triumph Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 9:12 PM Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very origiinal car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is nice and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and the dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. We are having a tuning problem. With 2 psi fuel pressre at the carb at WOT the engine runs lean, especially at part throttle. The stock spec. calls for "DD" mixture needles. They are way lean. Just bringing the revs up from idle to about 2500 to 3000 rpm with no load the engine spits and runs very rough. Adding fuel makes the engine "rev" right up. We have tried progressively richer needles going from the "DD" to "AN", then to "H-6" and finally to "DK" needles. With the "DK" needles installed the engine runs"GREAT' under any circumstances but I am afraid that it is to rich. I took it on a 35 miles or so road test on Sunday with these needles installed and it was a pleasure to drive! but seemed to just "suck" gas, but this is a subjective judgement as I was not able to measure the fuel economy. Note, the cam, displacement, etc. are all stock in this car. I am at a loss to understand why the needles need to be so much richer than the stock spec to make this car run properly! Does anyone have any ideas or experience with this exact model? Greg Solow _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html klynch_6 at msn.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Wed Oct 31 10:09:32 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:09:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles References: <000801c81b6b$e6a3bc40$6401a8c0@TER2> <8C9E9DBDFCD8BC0-D00-841D@webmail-da18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000d01c81bd8$6cb31260$6401a8c0@TER2> Woops! I has been so long since I have seen anything but 1500 Spitfires, I got mixed up about the headers. The engine is a 1300 8 port head. The headers must be an aftermarket addition put on 30 + years ago. Regards, Greg Solow ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:48 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Solow > > > We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very > origiinal > car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new > guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is > nice > and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and > the > dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. > > ==AM== > Greg, I've no sage words of wisdom about the problem, but I do have a > question. Which engine are we talking about here? You mention "stock > tubular headers" -- they were "stock" only on the Spitfire 4 Mk2 with the > 1147cc, six-port engine (FC series). An original engine for a '68 Mk3 > would be an FD series, eight-port, 1296cc. engine. > > --Andy Mace > > *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? > *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph > Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > > Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph > Herald Database at its new URL: > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Wed Oct 31 10:28:14 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:28:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles References: <287661.95972.qm@web81202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c81bdb$12d9f1c0$6401a8c0@TER2> Regarding the Spitfire. There are no vacuum leaks. The PCV valve is ok. We have not checked the cam timing. Maybe that is in order. The engine runs GREAT! with the DK needles installed. What we really need is a chassis dyno to check mixture under load. There used to be one in San Jose but it is no longer in action. Maybe a "Smog test Dyno" might work? Has anyone tried one of these for tuning as opposed to Smog Testing? Greg Solow ----- Original Message ----- From: EDWARD BARNARD To: Greg Solow ; Friends of Triumph Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Greg: Perhaps this suggestion is too simple, but, have you checked for manifold air leaks that would cause the mixture to be lean because your sucking air? Could be your adding extra air after the throttle plate; carbs to manifold, manifold to head, hose from manifold to PCV valve bad. Just silly things you've probably checked already. - Ed Greg Solow wrote: We have been working on a 1968 Spitfire Mk 3, It is a stock, very origiinal car. We have just done a valve job, installed hard exhaust seat and new guides, & replaced the rings. The compression is great and the engine is nice and tight. It has the stock tubular headers that cam on this year car and the dual 1 1/4" HS-2 carbs. We are having a tuning problem. With 2 psi fuel pressre at the carb at WOT the engine runs lean, especially at part throttle. The stock spec. calls for "DD" mixture needles. They are way lean. Just bringing the revs up from idle to about 2500 to 3000 rpm with no load the engine spits and runs very rough. Adding fuel makes the engine "rev" right up. We have tried progressively richer needles going from the "DD" to "AN", then to "H-6" and finally to "DK" needles. With the "DK" needles installed the engine runs"GREAT' under any circumstances but I am afraid that it is to rich. I took it on a 35 miles or so road test on Sunday with these needles installed and it was a pleasure to drive! but seemed to just "suck" gas, but this is a subjective judgement as I was not able to measure the fuel economy. Note, the cam, displacement, etc. are all stock in this car. I am at a loss to understand why the needles need to be so much richer than the stock spec to make this car run properly! Does anyone have any ideas or experience with this exact model? Greg Solow _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From robertten1 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 10:30:47 2007 From: robertten1 at aol.com (robertten1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:30:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen In-Reply-To: <008a01c81a7b$fdca43d0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> References: <8cbd782d0710291506i7942f068w6850ed865224c5e@mail.gmail.com> <008a01c81a7b$fdca43d0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: <8C9E9F28703ECCF-520-82CD@MBLK-M01.sysops.aol.com> Wish you the best of luck in getting your TR5 back.? Hate to say?it but it probably was stolen by some landscaper for the trailer only.? Doesn't really matter what was inside it to him. Chin up, Bob T. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Janzen To: Chuck Arnold ; Friends Sent: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 6:35 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen You should spread this around to all vintage race organizations, restoration shops, exporters, etc so that if this car ever shows up it is identified and returned. That really sucks! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Friends" Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 6:06 PM Subject: [Fot] Just Sick - car stolen > Came home from a 5 day trip to find only the remnants of the smashed > receiver lock where my trailer, containing my TR250 race car, was when I > left. Hoped like hell it had been impounded for parking too long in a > city > lot [I live on a houseboat and the trailer lives in the lot where I park]. > No such luck. Police report filed, insurance claim in. > > Information: Trailer was a white 16x7 Road force. No exterior markings. > Car: BRG #444 TR5. Accusump and dual master cylinders under hood. > Battery > and cell in rear. Full cage. Stainless lines to the injectors. Mallory > distributor. Fabricated dash. No speedo. 4 speed, no OD. > > Photos at: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/StolenTR5 > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > s.janzen at comcast.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot robertten1 at aol.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From REK46 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 10:59:16 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:59:16 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: Why don't you just do a plug check after running?....if they work good,use em ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From WEmery7451 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 11:01:34 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:01:34 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: In a message dated 10/30/07 7:51:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, edwardbarnard at prodigy.net writes: << Greg: Perhaps this suggestion is too simple, but, have you checked for manif old air leaks that would cause the mixture to be lean because your sucking air? Could be your adding extra air after the throttle plate; carbs to manifold, ma nifold to head, hose from manifold to PCV valve bad. Just silly things you've p robably checked already. - Ed >> Possibly the throttle shaft bushings? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From mikee at ragtops.com Wed Oct 31 11:12:38 2007 From: mikee at ragtops.com (Mike) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:12:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4728B786.4040801@ragtops.com> Greg, We've had similar problems on many different cars. The stock needles don't provide enough fuel. Working with Joe Curto we've been able to make most of them run OK by fitting richer needles to the detriment of fuel economy. I think (unscientific theory with no hard evidence) that the problem stems from the changes in gasoline formulations. As the 'quality' of the fuel has changed over the years the energy in the fuel has diminished. More fuel is needed to get the same performance. The problem with this idea is that only about 10% of the cars we work on need this type of repair. Most of them run OK with the stock setup, although sometimes adjusted as rich as it will go. Mike Engard From REK46 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 11:13:49 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:13:49 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: The MkIII owners manual says that the engine is designed to operate on fuels having a min oct rating of 97(Research Method)..Using fuels of this type or higher,the static timing should be 6 degs B.T.D.C...if these fuels are not available,or lower,you should retard the ign timing just sufficient enuf to prevent pinging.....also be sure the float levels are correct ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From triosan at gmail.com Wed Oct 31 11:38:11 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:38:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing Message-ID: <8cbd782d0710311038g3469c774xe9dd178a6597f1cf@mail.gmail.com> Can an SCCA legal cage be fitted in a TR6 with the hardtop? Do the Brits do this? Is there room for helmet clearance of the bar for a6 footer? Thanks, Chuck considering options if my TR5 never reappers. Anyone have a real vintage racing prepped TR250/5/6 available. Any suggestions for sources for looking? -- Chuck Arnold From keithfiles at btinternet.com Wed Oct 31 12:22:12 2007 From: keithfiles at btinternet.com (Keith Files) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:22:12 -0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0710311038g3469c774xe9dd178a6597f1cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071031193304.3D40F187A03@autox.team.net> Hi Chuck, I am 6 ft and have a full FIA cage inside my TR6 and I run a GRP hardtop (used to run with a standard Triumph steel hardtop so I know that one fits) and I have no problems getting in and out of the car. My head, with the helmet on, does miss the roof but not by very much - having said that I still use the standard TR6 seat runner so if I lost that and bolted the seat directly to the floor I would have plenty of clearance. Cheers, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Chuck Arnold Sent: 31 October 2007 17:38 To: Friends Subject: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing Can an SCCA legal cage be fitted in a TR6 with the hardtop? Do the Brits do this? Is there room for helmet clearance of the bar for a6 footer? Thanks, Chuck considering options if my TR5 never reappers. Anyone have a real vintage racing prepped TR250/5/6 available. Any suggestions for sources for looking? -- Chuck Arnold keithfiles at btinternet.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4.tony at virgin.net Wed Oct 31 12:57:27 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:57:27 -0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing References: <20071031193304.3D40F187A03@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <001301c81bef$e2470ce0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Hi Chuck Another solution if you need a couple of extra inches ..... my lid is the alloy type, but you could do this in steel or indeed let in some fibreglass bumps relatively easily. Im 6 ft 3 and this gives me 3 chear inches above my helmet. The bigger issue may be the design of the cage and how close this is to the back of your cranium if you have long legs and the seat well back into the car. Worth looking at. Water wings not necessary for circuit use! Regards Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Files" To: "'Chuck Arnold'" Cc: "'Friends'" Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing > Hi Chuck, > > I am 6 ft and have a full FIA cage inside my TR6 and I run a GRP hardtop > (used to run with a standard Triumph steel hardtop so I know that one > fits) > and I have no problems getting in and out of the car. My head, with the > helmet on, does miss the roof but not by very much - having said that I > still use the standard TR6 seat runner so if I lost that and bolted the > seat > directly to the floor I would have plenty of clearance. > > Cheers, Keith. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+keithfiles=btinternet.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Chuck Arnold > Sent: 31 October 2007 17:38 > To: Friends > Subject: [Fot] TR6 hardtop and racing > > Can an SCCA legal cage be fitted in a TR6 with the hardtop? Do the Brits > do > this? Is there room for helmet clearance of the bar for a6 footer? > > Thanks, Chuck considering options if my TR5 never reappers. Anyone have > a > real vintage racing prepped TR250/5/6 available. Any suggestions for > sources for looking? > > -- > Chuck Arnold > keithfiles at btinternet.com > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > tr4.tony at virgin.net > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of RT07_07_3840LR.jpg] From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Wed Oct 31 13:11:31 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <480623.82675.qm@web81209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Don't forget...octane was measured differently back then (RON). Also note that octane ratings here in the states average 4 or 5 points below Europe because they use the RON rating while we average the RON and MON. Their 97 equals our high test or medium grade depending on who's European gas your buying. - Ed REK46 at aol.com wrote: The MkIII owners manual says that the engine is designed to operate on fuels having a min oct rating of 97(Research Method)..Using fuels of this type or higher,the static timing should be 6 degs B.T.D.C...if these fuels are not available,or lower,you should retard the ign timing just sufficient enuf to prevent pinging.....also be sure the float levels are correct ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From REK46 at aol.com Wed Oct 31 13:16:53 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:16:53 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles Message-ID: belive that was LEADED back then also ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From walt at hot-tr6.com Wed Oct 31 13:41:52 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:41:52 -0600 Subject: [Fot] N.O.S. Spitfire pistons Message-ID: <20071031204126.6E73B187A3D@autox.team.net> I ended up with a set of 4 new old stock pistons for a 1296cc Spitfire. .020 over. Still in Hepolite box. part number 20140. Complete with wrist pins and piston rings. If any fot member would like them for $100 (I'll pay shipping at that price) they can have them. If not I'll list them on ebaymotors in a few days. Thanks Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, New Mexico From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Wed Oct 31 13:46:04 2007 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:46:04 -0500 Subject: [Fot] N.O.S. Spitfire pistons In-Reply-To: <20071031204126.6E73B187A3D@autox.team.net> References: <20071031204126.6E73B187A3D@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C747C6FE8@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> And if I can be permitted to piggy-back on Walt's message, I've got a set of the same for 1147, 0.040 over. Someone can have those for the same deal. Still in the Hepolite box, complete with wrist pins and piston rings. Scott B. (920) 257-2233 (office direct) -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Walter Hollowell Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:42 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] N.O.S. Spitfire pistons I ended up with a set of 4 new old stock pistons for a 1296cc Spitfire. .020 over. Still in Hepolite box. part number 20140. Complete with wrist pins and piston rings. If any fot member would like them for $100 (I'll pay shipping at that price) they can have them. If not I'll list them on ebaymotors in a few days. Thanks Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, New Mexico scott.barr at mccarty-law.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From walt at hot-tr6.com Wed Oct 31 13:51:30 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:51:30 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Pistons Sold Message-ID: <20071031205103.96E22187A5D@autox.team.net> the aforementioned Spitfire .020 are sold to Rick. That was quick. Thanks Again Walt Abq., NM From RYoung at navcomtech.com Wed Oct 31 15:04:47 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:04:47 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mixture needles In-Reply-To: <002101c81bdb$12d9f1c0$6401a8c0@TER2> References: <287661.95972.qm@web81202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002101c81bdb$12d9f1c0$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: > Maybe a "Smog test Dyno" might work? Has > anyone tried one of > these for tuning as opposed to Smog Testing? I asked at a local smog shop; and was told that most of the units could not handle enough power for full load even with a relatively small engine. Apparently the smog test is done under light load (cruise conditions) and small dynos are cheaper than big ones. However, they claimed to have a larger unit that could handle up to 150 rwhp, and were willing to sell me dyno time by the hour. Unfortunately, I never took them up on the offer; don't even know if they are still there. ISTR the shop was off of Artesia Blvd in Bellflower, CA, but that's not much to go on. And after they insisted on testing my Chevy in 3rd gear (leading to a failure because the EGR valve wouldn't open at such high manifold vacuum), I never went back. If they quoted a price for an hour of dyno time, I don't remember it. Randall fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 31 16:28:45 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:28:45 EDT Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn - Corning (Painted Post) Zippo Grand Prix 2008 Message-ID: FoT Entrants and Attendees: I got a reply on my 'Request for Proposal' from Hampton Inn: Facility name: Hampton Inn Corning The quote per room that I received was for $114.00 per night. No additional costs for doubles or added people. Flat Rate. The maximum rooms blocked is 20 Rooms The reservations will be made under the organization name of: THE FRIENDS OF TRIUMPH..........to acquire that special rate. I have not accepted the proposal, yet, but plan to. Please respond once more to me, then I will follow through. I prefer that you make your own reservations. (with one or two exceptions) Once I block these rooms off, I will provide the information to you in order to make the reservations. Joe Alexander From riverside at cedar-rapids.net Wed Oct 31 16:45:08 2007 From: riverside at cedar-rapids.net (riverside) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:45:08 -0600 Subject: [Fot] GT6 body in wisconsin Message-ID: <000201c81c1d$22054860$35dd9f04@your55e5f9e3d2> I had computer mishap andm lost most of my inbox including some corrrespondence with an fot'er who offered a GT6 body. Would he please get back with me. Thanks. art de armond From spitlist at cox.net Wed Oct 31 18:37:05 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:37:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] GT6 body in wisconsin In-Reply-To: <000201c81c1d$22054860$35dd9f04@your55e5f9e3d2> References: <000201c81c1d$22054860$35dd9f04@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: <000f01c81c1f$53c8c690$2202a8c0@newcomputer> It was Scott Barr, I think. And the body I am pretty sure is the one he got from me. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of riverside Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:45 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] GT6 body in wisconsin I had computer mishap andm lost most of my inbox including some corrrespondence with an fot'er who offered a GT6 body. Would he please get back with me. Thanks. art de armond spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 31 19:21:00 2007 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] GT6 body in wisconsin In-Reply-To: <000f01c81c1f$53c8c690$2202a8c0@newcomputer> Message-ID: <311222.2638.qm@web57602.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Scott does in fact have a GT-6 tub and his dad, Jerry, has a complete GT-6. Joe Curry wrote: It was Scott Barr, I think. And the body I am pretty sure is the one he got from me. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of riverside Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:45 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] GT6 body in wisconsin I had computer mishap andm lost most of my inbox including some corrrespondence with an fot'er who offered a GT6 body. Would he please get back with me. Thanks. art de armond spitlist at cox.net Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Oct 31 20:49:47 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:49:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] THE HAMPTON INN HIGH ROLLERS Message-ID: FoT Well here we are so far......enough to proceed with accepting the proposal from the Hampton Inn. I'll be back to you with the info, so you can make your reservations. Regards, Joe Alexander KAS & PEG KASTNER JACK & FRANCES DREWS CARY PERKET (2) CRAIG WENSLEY KEN GANO KEITH & DENISE FILES (2) JIM MC ANDREW ED DIEHL & FRIENDS TONY SCHEACH JOHN HERRERA