From bob at CoanPro.com Sat Dec 1 08:56:15 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 07:56:15 -0800 Subject: [Fot] $25,000 SCCA or Vintage Spitfire MK II for $5000. Message-ID: <002d01c83432$b4e62550$1eb26ff0$@com> Hey everyone, I've decided to sell this beautiful SCCA HP ready Spitfire along with a nice stock of spare parts. My Dad and I hoped to make it to the runoffs but its does not look like we will be doing that anytime soon, so instead of letting this car sit in storage, I'll find someone that wants to put it on the track. It could easily be converted to Vintage. Take a look at http://picasaweb.google.com/thinkfreerealtyphotos/SCCAHPTriumphSpitfire The guy I bought it from owned a racing supply business and put over 25k into the car and only ran it a few times. The car has been totally race prepared with a brand new 1147 race motor built by Acme Racing of Spartanburg NC, rebuilt transmission, rebuilt rear end, everything including lug bolts and studs have been rebuilt. The car has Mark Williams axels, modified carbs and Electromotive crank trigger ignition. Gary Johnson of E. TN Race Prep did the final assembly...including front coil over's, new front and rear disc brakes, Electromotive crank trigger ignition and more. I just put the car on e-bay for $5000. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &ssPageName=STRK:MESEX:IT&item=220178787790&_trksid=p3984.cSELL.m315.lVI I also have a the enclosed trailer and matching Dodge Ram truck if someone wanted a turnkey setup. All going for good prices. I need to clear out my storage shop over the next 3 weeks, so please forward this info to anyone you think might be interested. It's all located in Tustin, California, which is Southern California near Disneyland. Bob Coan 714-566-5138 _______________________________________________ From bob at CoanPro.com Sat Dec 1 12:13:09 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 11:13:09 -0800 Subject: [Fot] here is the correct link to the auction for the Spitfire Message-ID: <002801c8344e$36c82940$a4587bc0$@com> Here is the link for the auction for the SCCA HP or Vintage Spitfire. The link was broken on my last post. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &sspagename=STRK%3AMESEX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220178787790&_trksid=p3984.cSEL L.m315.lVI Bob Coan 714-566-5138 bob at coanpro.com From bob at CoanPro.com Sat Dec 1 13:59:44 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:59:44 -0800 Subject: [Fot] here is the correct link for the SCCA Spitfire MK II auction Message-ID: <003701c8345d$19ee4e30$4dcaea90$@com> Oh boy, the link was so long it presented a problem. Here is a link that works. Link to E-Bay Auction here. This is for the SCCA Spitfire for sale. Bob Coan bob at coanpro.com 714-566-5138 From bob at CoanPro.com Sat Dec 1 14:09:52 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 13:09:52 -0800 Subject: [Fot] one more try for link to 66 Spitfire racer auction Message-ID: <003c01c8345e$849c8700$8dd59500$@com> Ok, here is the auction number for the SCCA Spitfire. 220178787790 You would never guess that I am in the computer industry. Bob Coan bob at coanpro.com 714-566-5138 This is what I had to deal with. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220178787790&r u=http%3A%2F%2Fmotors.search-completed.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3 Fsofocus%3Dbs%26sbrftog%3D1%26ampsspagename%3Dh%253Ah%253Aadvsearch%253AUS%2 6catref%3DC12%26guest%3D1%26fcl%3D3%26frpp%3D50%26from%3DR10%26satitle%3D220 178787790%26sacat%3D6001%2526catref%253DC6%26a39%3D-24%26a38v1y%3D%26a38v2y% 3D%26a10239%3D-24%26a39705%3D-24%26a18%3D-24%26a10244%3D-24%26alist%3Da39%25 2Ca41%252Ca38v1y%252Ca38v2y%252Ca10239%252Ca3801%252Ca85%252Ca10246%252Ca335 12%252Ca10241%252Ca10244%252Ca39705%252Ca18%26pfmode%3D1%26reqtype%3D1%26gcs %3D13%26pfid%3D2473%26pf_query%3D220178787790%26sargn%3D-1%2526saslc%253D2%2 6sadis%3D200%26fpos%3D34997%26sabfmts%3D1%26saobfmts%3Dinsif%26fis%3D2%26ftr t%3D1%26ftrv%3D1%26saprclo%3D%26saprchi%3D%26sadis1%3D100%26fpos1%3D34997%26 lsot1%3D%26fsop%3D1%2526fsoo%253D2%26sadis2%3D100%26fpos2%3D34997%26lsot2%3D %26fvi%3D1 From REK46 at aol.com Sat Dec 1 14:21:37 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:21:37 EST Subject: [Fot] one more try for link to 66 Spitfire racer auction Message-ID: and our kids ridicule us 'old' guys for being "computerly challenged" ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From britbits at tiu.net Sat Dec 1 19:10:17 2007 From: britbits at tiu.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 20:10:17 -0600 Subject: [Fot] SCCA or Vintage Spitfire for sale In-Reply-To: <001101c833ce$866f9bc0$934ed340$@com> References: <001101c833ce$866f9bc0$934ed340$@com> Message-ID: <005c01c83488$7c390f50$ede435cf@jrg> Which vintage race groups allow rear discs on a Spitfire? Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+britbits=tiu.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+britbits=tiu.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Coan Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:59 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] SCCA or Vintage Spitfire for sale The guy I bought it from owned a racing supply business and put over 25k into the car and only ran it a few times. The car has been totally race prepared with a brand new 1147 race motor built by Acme Racing of Spartanburg NC, rebuilt transmission, rebuilt rear end, everything including lug bolts and studs have been rebuilt. The car has Mark Williams axels, modified carbs and Electromotive crank trigger ignition. Gary Johnson of E. TN Race Prep did the final assembly...including front coil over's, new front and rear disc brakes, Electromotive crank trigger ignition and more. Ebay item 220178787790 From bob at CoanPro.com Sat Dec 1 21:30:54 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 20:30:54 -0800 Subject: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. Message-ID: <002e01c8349c$21cd8a00$65689e00$@com> I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. Thanks for helping spread the word! Bob Coan From hottr6 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 2 15:11:11 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:11:11 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. Message-ID: > I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer > as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. Does this mean Babcock is preparing an Island-based "All Rust Tour"? Or are there two Triumph nutz in Hawaii? ;) Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 2 16:23:31 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 16:23:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] List Nomination Message-ID: <20071202233058.ELL23849.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> I would like to nominate Robert Smith (SMITH1127 at aol.com) to the list. Robert is a member of DCTRA (The Arizona TR Club although he lives in Hawaii) and has an interesting collection of cars including the full race Spitfire that he bought off this list the other day. Bill Babcock has corresponded with Robert in the past too. From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 2 16:26:32 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 16:26:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071202233059.ELP23849.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> There are two nuts. The guy that bought the Spitfire bought a TR3 from here in Arizona earlier this year and has a pretty interesting collection At 03:11 PM 12/2/2007, you wrote: > > I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer > > as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. > >Does this mean Babcock is preparing an Island-based "All Rust Tour"? > >Or are there two Triumph nutz in Hawaii? ;) > >Shane Ingate in NM > >_________________________________________________________________ >You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the im >Initiative now. >http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 2 16:42:05 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 15:42:05 -0800 Subject: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. References: Message-ID: Apparently there's two. No idea what he'll do with it in Hawaii, there's no track. I guess he wants to look at it. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Shane Ingate Sent: Sun 12/2/2007 2:11 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. > I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer > as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. Does this mean Babcock is preparing an Island-based "All Rust Tour"? Or are there two Triumph nutz in Hawaii? ;) Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 2 16:56:24 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 16:56:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071203000047.NJHB20016.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Bill, you've emailed the new owner before. Here is a comment that Robert (the new owner) sent to me about one of the uses for the car. "...It should be an interesting car in Hawaii, and I'm looking forward to competing on our small but fun SCCA track in Hilo..." At 04:42 PM 12/2/2007, you wrote: >Apparently there's two. No idea what he'll do with it in Hawaii, there's no >track. I guess he wants to look at it. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Shane Ingate >Sent: Sun 12/2/2007 2:11 PM >To: Friends of Triumph >Subject: Re: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. > > > I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer > > as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. > >Does this mean Babcock is preparing an Island-based "All Rust Tour"? > >Or are there two Triumph nutz in Hawaii? ;) > >Shane Ingate in NM > >_________________________________________________________________ >You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the im >Initiative now. >http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From brad.kahler at 141.com Sun Dec 2 21:20:12 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 22:20:12 -0600 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man Message-ID: <475383FC.9080607@141.com> Its amazing he walked away from this. http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l157/Nifty_Fifty_1950/?action=view¤t=Luckiestmanontheplanet.flv Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer. From spreiss at verizon.net Sun Dec 2 05:42:43 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:42:43 +1100 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man References: <475383FC.9080607@141.com> Message-ID: <000801c834e0$d5af4010$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> "Maybe there's somethin' t' be said fer Positraction after all." (At least he didn't have to worry about that doggie comin back to gore him.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Kahler" To: Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 3:20 PM Subject: [Fot] One lucky man > Its amazing he walked away from this. > > http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l157/Nifty_Fifty_1950/?action=view¤t=Luckiestmanontheplanet.flv > > Brad > 1957 TR3 vintage racer. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 2 21:47:58 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:47:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man In-Reply-To: <000801c834e0$d5af4010$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> References: <475383FC.9080607@141.com> <000801c834e0$d5af4010$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: <20071203045220.ESSX23849.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Makes you wonder if inspection of safety items like belts, seat and roll cage are mere afterthoughts for the driver, the sanction and the track. What was the seat bolted to? Tin foil? Looking at the car on the starting line and seeing what looks like significant amounts of rust on the roof makes me wonder if the whole car was being held together with a coat of primer? Sure came apart like it's body panels had been flying in loose formation before the accident. At 05:42 AM 12/2/2007, Steven Preiss wrote: >"Maybe there's somethin' t' be said fer Positraction after all." (At least >he didn't have to worry about that doggie comin back to gore him.) > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Brad Kahler" >To: >Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 3:20 PM >Subject: [Fot] One lucky man > > > > Its amazing he walked away from this. > > > > >http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l157/Nifty_Fifty_1950/?action=view¤t=Luckiestmanontheplanet.flv > > > > Brad > > 1957 TR3 vintage racer. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 3 03:24:39 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 02:24:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Bud Babcock Message-ID: <645629.68817.qm@web81105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry to bomb the list, but would you please email me ... I need your email address and some other info for the glen 2008 project... Thanks, Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 3 03:25:29 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 02:25:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Dick stockton Message-ID: <793983.52516.qm@web81104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry to bomb the list, but would you please email me re the glen 2008 project .. thanks Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 3 03:26:20 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 02:26:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Paul Smock Message-ID: <99285.2473.qm@web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry to bomb the list, but would you please email me, re the glen 2008 project .. thanks Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From RustyTR4 at aol.com Mon Dec 3 04:44:28 2007 From: RustyTR4 at aol.com (RustyTR4 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:44:28 EST Subject: [Fot] List Nomination Message-ID: I would be glad to second that Matt Matt Bakes Triumph Rescue (610) 845 - 8217 _www.TriumphRescue.com_ (http://www.triumphrescue.com/) British Wiring, Inc. 866-461-9050 _www.BritishWiring.com_ (http://www.britishwiring.com/) 617 Walnut St. Bally, PA. 19503 **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Mon Dec 3 05:07:38 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoff Byrne) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 23:07:38 +1100 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs In-Reply-To: <883765.25532.qm@web81713.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <883765.25532.qm@web81713.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57B7EF2438F140498A362E71B44F01BA@GEOFFPC> Dennis Do not race your TR with the standard hubs they will break. we have had 2 failues on track cars which very nearly lead to the death of the drivers. There are many many examples of hub failures. The design is terrible . We replace the TR hub with a Datsun 240Z it is a fairly simple conversion. Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis DeLap" To: "FOT" Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs > Amici - I have a question for those who are racing a TR4A - TR6. What > have you done to make the rear axle/hubs safe? Upgrades, modifications, > etc. > > Thanks > Dennis DeLap > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Mon Dec 3 05:58:53 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 05:58:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs In-Reply-To: <57B7EF2438F140498A362E71B44F01BA@GEOFFPC> Message-ID: <000101c835ac$425eb850$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Is there a source for photographs and/or detailed instructions regarding the 240Z conversion. I would like to learn more the hub failures. Jim g -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Geoff Byrne Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 5:08 AM To: Dennis DeLap; FOT Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs Dennis Do not race your TR with the standard hubs they will break. we have had 2 failues on track cars which very nearly lead to the death of the drivers. There are many many examples of hub failures. The design is terrible . We replace the TR hub with a Datsun 240Z it is a fairly simple conversion. Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis DeLap" To: "FOT" Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs > Amici - I have a question for those who are racing a TR4A - TR6. What > have you done to make the rear axle/hubs safe? Upgrades, modifications, > etc. > > Thanks > Dennis DeLap > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From igofaster at charter.net Mon Dec 3 07:12:03 2007 From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 6:12:03 -0800 Subject: [Fot] 1st Annual Eagles Canyon CVAR Race In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071203091203.27ENJ.151186.root@fepweb14> Good day to all! CVAR had the first official race at the brand new racetrack here in North Texas. FoT had three Triumphs in our 'Triumph Row'. Bob Kramerand his TR4, Tom Young with his TR3, and my GT6+. First, we had misty rain most of saturday but sunday cleared up nicely although windy.I'm still in training as a Novice 2 but boy... what a NICE track. Several elevation changes of 70 feet or so with lots of twisties. The track is 2.550 miles around and very challenging. Rookie as I am, I managed NOT to spin at all for the weekend as it was my main goal as I had spun twice at TWS last month. Thanks to Bob Kramer for the way cool FoT stickers! I also survived with no incidents, no mechanical issues, and still grinning over my GT6+! Take care all, Best regards, Bobby Whitehead #54 CVAR GT6+ From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Dec 3 07:28:46 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:28:46 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs Message-ID: What would you like to know about the hub failures? I nearly flipped my TR6 over when it stood on it's nose. The right rear hub broke off at the inner side as I was just coming out of a corner and accelerating WOT in 2nd gear. The tire went out the back of the car and the rear was thrown up high enough for it to clear out. I was told it would happen and I thought 'no, not to me'. I have also replaced the front hubs, another weak spot. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ---------------------------------------- From: "James Gray" Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 5:01 AM To: "'Geoff Byrne'" Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs Is there a source for photographs and/or detailed instructions regarding the 240Z conversion. I would like to learn more the hub failures. Jim g -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Geoff Byrne Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 5:08 AM To: Dennis DeLap; FOT Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs Dennis Do not race your TR with the standard hubs they will break. we have had 2 failues on track cars which very nearly lead to the death of the drivers. There are many many examples of hub failures. The design is terrible . We replace the TR hub with a Datsun 240Z it is a fairly simple conversion. Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis DeLap" To: "FOT" Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs > Amici - I have a question for those who are racing a TR4A - TR6. What > have you done to make the rear axle/hubs safe? Upgrades, modifications, > etc. > > Thanks > Dennis DeLap > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From EDENMA at aol.com Mon Dec 3 07:29:53 2007 From: EDENMA at aol.com (EDENMA at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:29:53 EST Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 13, Issue 2 Message-ID: In a message dated 12/2/2007 11:59:33 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. Thanks for helping spread the word! Bob Coan Hmm, must be a collector as there is certainly no place to legally race it in Hawaii! Cheers! Mark **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From bob at CoanPro.com Mon Dec 3 08:12:01 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 07:12:01 -0800 Subject: [Fot] nomination of Robert Smith Message-ID: <000c01c835be$dbd3ac40$937b04c0$@com> I second the nomination for Robert Smith. Bob Coan From dave at microworks.net Mon Dec 3 10:04:22 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 10:04:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racing in Hawaii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071203171108.VDW21007.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Hmmm... This may be news to SCCA members over there. http://www.sccahawaii.org/ http://www.khnl.com/Global/story.asp?S=6689021 http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Apr/07/ln/FP604070366.html http://www.na-motorsports.com/Tracks/HI/ http://www.hawaiiracingassoc.com/ >Hmm, must be a collector as there is certainly no place to legally race it >in Hawaii! > >Cheers! > >Mark From edenma at aol.com Mon Dec 3 13:15:46 2007 From: edenma at aol.com (edenma at aol.com) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:15:46 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA04006C2E03B0-C88-1684@WEBMAIL-DB13.sysops.aol.com> Hmm....well it's definatly news to some of us!? Guess?I have been gone too long! Cheers! Mark Hmmm... This may be news to SCCA members over there. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003 From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Dec 3 13:21:17 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:21:17 EST Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks Message-ID: In a message dated 12/03/2007 2:16:00 PM Central Standard Time, edenma at aol.com writes: > Hmm....well it's definatly news to some of us!? Guess?I have been gone too > long! > > Amici... All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Dec 3 14:33:39 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:33:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/03/2007 2:16:00 PM Central Standard Time, > edenma at aol.com writes: > > >> Hmm....well it's definatly news to some of us!? Guess?I have been gone too >> long! >> >> > > Amici... > > All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, > come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. Ya, but it's da kine. Cowabunga, Dude! > Bill (Damdinger) Aloha. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From don at carterdesignassociates.com Mon Dec 3 14:44:51 2007 From: don at carterdesignassociates.com (Don Carter) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:44:51 -0600 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man In-Reply-To: <475383FC.9080607@141.com> Message-ID: <007901c835f5$bbf25660$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> Thanks for sending this out Brad. I've had a standing argument with a drag racing friend of mine for years about the danger factors of drag racing compared to auto crossing. Of course he goes directly to the precautions he is required to take in his super comp dragster that does 200 in a quarter. I sent him this video to show the average, (OK maybe lower end), drag racer who shows up to "run" his car. I think it will help my case. WOW! I'm glad this guy wasn't strapped in, he could have...well, been hurt. I've never seen a Chevy come apart like that and I'm a Chevy man. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+don=carterdesignassociates.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+don=carterdesignassociates.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 10:20 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] One lucky man Its amazing he walked away from this. http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l157/Nifty_Fifty_1950/?action=view¤t =Luckiestmanontheplanet.flv Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitfiresuz at 141.com Mon Dec 3 15:30:10 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:30:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man Message-ID: <380-220071213223010109@M2W029.mail2web.com> Yes, and add in all of the other hazards like alcohol-fuel fires (can't see 'em) and starting-line engine detonations, and I would much rather be road racing! Susan :) Original Message: ----------------- From: Don Carter don at carterdesignassociates.com Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:44:51 -0600 To: brad.kahler at 141.com, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] One lucky man Thanks for sending this out Brad. I've had a standing argument with a drag racing friend of mine for years about the danger factors of drag racing compared to auto crossing. Of course he goes directly to the precautions he is required to take in his super comp dragster that does 200 in a quarter. I sent him this video to show the average, (OK maybe lower end), drag racer who shows up to "run" his car. I think it will help my case. WOW! I'm glad this guy wasn't strapped in, he could have...well, been hurt. I've never seen a Chevy come apart like that and I'm a Chevy man. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft. Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange From trhouse at greenapple.com Mon Dec 3 17:15:14 2007 From: trhouse at greenapple.com (Tom Householder) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:15:14 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks 1955 report In-Reply-To: <8CA04006C2E03B0-C88-1684@WEBMAIL-DB13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: on 12/3/07 3:15 PM, edenma at aol.com at edenma at aol.com wrote: > Hmm....well it's definatly news to some of us!? Guess?I have been gone too > long! > > Cheers! > > Mark > > > Hmmm... This may be news to SCCA members over there. Here is what I got recorded FYI 1955 SCCA Hawaii Race 1 Standard 10 Driver unknown Race 2 Thomas Richert Triumph TR2 No Number listed From brad.kahler at 141.com Mon Dec 3 17:32:28 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:32:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man In-Reply-To: <007901c835f5$bbf25660$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> References: <007901c835f5$bbf25660$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> Message-ID: <4754A01C.2040902@141.com> Don, I pulled this info off of u-tube. The guys name was Don Renfrow. "I doubt this was NHRA legal. All I heard was this; it was his first (or one of his first) runs in the car. he built it himself. he poorly welded and bolted the seat and buckle onto the floor pan. as you know, with a powerful car the body with twist and shake. it did this so much it broke away his seat and buckle. with the seat under him moving around he got scared and gave it more gas (clearly not thinking clearly, all instinct.) and there you go, lost control, over-corrected and rolled over." "That was the old Fremont Drag Strip. On certain days you could bring anything there and run it. That footage has to be over 25years old. Its an automall parkway now." He is indeed lucky to be alive. Brad Don Carter wrote: > Thanks for sending this out Brad. I've had a standing argument with a drag > racing friend of mine for years about the danger factors of drag racing > compared to auto crossing. Of course he goes directly to the precautions he > is required to take in his super comp dragster that does 200 in a quarter. > I sent him this video to show the average, (OK maybe lower end), drag racer > who shows up to "run" his car. I think it will help my case. WOW! I'm glad > this guy wasn't strapped in, he could have...well, been hurt. I've never > seen a Chevy come apart like that and I'm a Chevy man. From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 3 19:17:52 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 18:17:52 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks References: Message-ID: Geez. I really didn't know there was a track anywhere on the islands. That's kind of good news. I was considering buying an enduro cart to keep my racing jones in check. I might have to check this hilo thing out. I'm working on building a magazine (online) about stand up paddle surfing. Keeping my mind from turning to much now that I'm screwing off full time. I've had to learn PHP, MySQL and CSS (sort of) still working on it, but it's coming out pretty good www.kenalu.com . I plan to launch it in February. > Amici... > > All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, > come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. Ya, but it's da kine. Cowabunga, Dude! > Bill (Damdinger) Aloha. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dos_gusanos at msn.com Mon Dec 3 19:26:42 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:26:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man In-Reply-To: <4754A01C.2040902@141.com> References: <007901c835f5$bbf25660$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> <4754A01C.2040902@141.com> Message-ID: In Albuquerque, Racing, is Drag Racing. The local "Vintage" racing club tried to get these fast and furious types out to the road course but was unsuccessful due to the fact that at the drags your entry fee was $10 and you had to wear a (DOT)helmet if your car went over 110 mph. The road racers entry was $195 and no matter what you were in you had to have a SNELL helmet. Last year, a young guy lost his life when his Vette crashed and burned at the drags, not that a helmet would have saved him. I don't know what the safety requirements at the drag strip are this year.......................... From budscars at msn.com Mon Dec 3 20:21:18 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:21:18 -0800 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man References: <007901c835f5$bbf25660$59e8a8c0@donlaptop><4754A01C.2040902@141.com> Message-ID: Hi Gang...I read the FOT emails a lot..and .I say Very Little.....I have read a lot of Emails today about race car Safety Stuff.........Race Drivers Race! Racer Bud.. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Brad Kahler" ; "Don Carter" Cc: Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] One lucky man > In Albuquerque, Racing, is Drag Racing. The local "Vintage" racing club > tried > to get these fast and furious types out to the road course but was > unsuccessful due to the fact that at the drags your entry fee was $10 and > you > had to wear a (DOT)helmet if your car went over 110 mph. > > The road racers entry was $195 and no matter what you were in you had to > have > a SNELL helmet. Last year, a young guy lost his life when his Vette > crashed > and burned at the drags, not that a helmet would have saved him. I don't > know > what the safety requirements at the drag strip are this > year.......................... > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Mon Dec 3 21:11:39 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:11:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] 1st Annual Eagles Canyon CVAR Race In-Reply-To: <20071203091203.27ENJ.151186.root@fepweb14> Message-ID: <489862.70816.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bobby: Congrats on a "clean drive". I saw you moving to and from the grid yesterday but never had a chance to catch you and say hello. You were quite lucky not to be pitted on the hill...you got the full brute force of that 45 mph wind up there. BTW, other FOTer's present were John Price with his TVR and Joe Hovey and myself, both carless. I think we're goin enjoy this track once they grow some grass on those hills. Ed Barnard igofaster at charter.net wrote: Good day to all! CVAR had the first official race at the brand new racetrack here in North Texas. FoT had three Triumphs in our 'Triumph Row'. Bob Kramerand his TR4, Tom Young with his TR3, and my GT6+. First, we had misty rain most of saturday but sunday cleared up nicely although windy.I'm still in training as a Novice 2 but boy... what a NICE track. Several elevation changes of 70 feet or so with lots of twisties. The track is 2.550 miles around and very challenging. Rookie as I am, I managed NOT to spin at all for the weekend as it was my main goal as I had spun twice at TWS last month. Thanks to Bob Kramer for the way cool FoT stickers! I also survived with no incidents, no mechanical issues, and still grinning over my GT6+! Take care all, Best regards, Bobby Whitehead #54 CVAR GT6+ Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From EDENMA at aol.com Mon Dec 3 21:45:28 2007 From: EDENMA at aol.com (EDENMA at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 23:45:28 EST Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks Message-ID: In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:21:17 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, BillDentin writes: Amici... All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. Bill (Damdinger) Indeed Bill, it is! However, having been married to a girl from Hawaii for more than 20 years (read: she has tolerated me that long) the likelihood of my returning when we retire is great (particularly since I never wanted to leave to begin with!). So you see, if I wish to continue racing for the foreseeable future, I have a vested interest in the status of tracks (or lack thereof) in Hawaii. Realistically though, I guess my cars and I would be better off raced here in the mainland. The possibilities are, none the less, intriguing. Cheers! Mark **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From hottr6 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 4 07:48:45 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:48:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] NHRA [was One lucky man] Message-ID: Amici, When I built the Pantera, I made sure it met BOTH SCCA Solo and NHRA regs, as I ran both. That has been much more of a challenge with the TR, as NHRA does not sanction rag tops. Nevertheless, I have met and exceeded, in spirit, their regs for 9-sec cars. Some have argued that since I am at best able to do 14 ETs that I am going overboard on safety, I reply that hitting the wall at 90mph is worthy of extreme measures in mitigation. Safety first. Reliability second. Performance last. I'd rather finish a race in any place than momentarily lead and DNF. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007 From norlinengineering at comcast.net Tue Dec 4 09:03:21 2007 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:03:21 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c8368f$32765c20$020ba8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP> There's also a second SCCA region in Hawaii, the Big Island Region. http://www.bigislandscca.org/ Right now they are essentially autocrossing, but I know they are working with the developers of the new track. Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of EDENMA at aol.com Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:45 PM To: BillDentin at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:21:17 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, BillDentin writes: Amici... All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. Bill (Damdinger) Indeed Bill, it is! However, having been married to a girl from Hawaii for more than 20 years (read: she has tolerated me that long) the likelihood of my returning when we retire is great (particularly since I never wanted to leave to begin with!). So you see, if I wish to continue racing for the foreseeable future, I have a vested interest in the status of tracks (or lack thereof) in Hawaii. Realistically though, I guess my cars and I would be better off raced here in the mainland. The possibilities are, none the less, intriguing. Cheers! Mark **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Dec 4 09:49:03 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 11:49:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Fot] New Track Moves Forward in Northeast Message-ID: Hi, Some of you may care about this, others may not. NER SCCA has been working on a new track for about 10 years. Last night they got the go-ahead from the town of Palmer, MA - the local permitting is done, all that's left is the formal environmental regulations compliance (they are well on thier way to that hurdle). Read the article here: http://www.masslive.com/republican/stories/index.ssf?/base/news-12/1196761858231780.xml&coll=1#continue If you want to see some basic track info, go to: www.palmermotorsportspark.com There's not much info there yet, but there will be in the near future. The plan is a 2.5 mile natural terrain road course set in 650 acres of woods. Eventual plans should include a large skid pad a'la Beaver Run. At any rate, there's a possible venue to fill the "void" in the northeast that exists (and will exist even mor ein the near term) of available tracks. NHIS has been sold to one of the NASCAR kingpins, so the road course there is in jeopardy and Lime Rock hosts events from at least 4 local SCCA regions and a SCAD of other clubs (BMWCCA, Porsche club and so forth) and the track rental price is pretty much off the charts, so a new track is a welcome relief indeed! FWIW, the track is a for-profit LLC and at this time they are still looking for large investors - contac them if you want to invest some money in the project. Regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From trhouse at greenapple.com Tue Dec 4 10:57:19 2007 From: trhouse at greenapple.com (Tom Householder) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 12:57:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks In-Reply-To: <000301c8368f$32765c20$020ba8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP> Message-ID: on 12/4/07 11:03 AM, Norlin Engineering at norlinengineering at comcast.net wrote: > There's also a second SCCA region in Hawaii, the Big Island Region. > > http://www.bigislandscca.org/ > > Right now they are essentially autocrossing, but I know they are working > with the developers of the new track. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of EDENMA at aol.com > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:45 PM > To: BillDentin at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks > > > In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:21:17 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > BillDentin > writes: > > Amici... > > All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, > come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. > > Bill (Damdinger) > > > I was reading an old racing newsletter from the fifties . They generally had a cartoon or two in the publication characterizing some current activity . One was an aircraft carrier Steaming along with a Road race course layed out on the deck . The caption read "This has been going on ever since the Captain Got his subscription to MotoRacing magazine" Iwish I would have thought of that when I was a sailor ..I could have taken the TR with me!!!! T From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 4 11:04:43 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:04:43 EST Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? Message-ID: Looks bad in Washington and Oregon.... Anyone impacted? Joe A From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 4 12:21:42 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 11:21:42 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? References: Message-ID: I have to drive to Manzanita this morning to see if my beach house is still there, High possibility of tree damage, but we'll see. Other than that we're fine. Short power outage and the generator didn't fire up. Battery must be dead. I hear that damned thing running in maintenance mode every week for fifteen minutes and when I need it--no go. About the time I got ready to swap in a spare battery the power came on. It's a gorgeous day today--bright blue skies and sunny. Everything looks like it's been freshly washed cuz it was! -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Tue 12/4/2007 10:04 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? Looks bad in Washington and Oregon.... Anyone impacted? Joe A Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From greenman62 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 4 13:18:35 2007 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 20:18:35 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: `Haven't talked to the kids... I assume if they had problems I'd have heard about it. I just hope John left the "Westy" at home yesterday. Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:04:43 -0500 > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? > > Looks bad in Washington and Oregon.... > > Anyone impacted? > > Joe A > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jibjib at att.net Tue Dec 4 17:48:58 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:48:58 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <012f01c836d8$9fe94580$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Yeah, the awesome snow we got in the cascades over the late in the week and early in the weekend was soaked badly on Sunday and Monday. We'll get more later in the week and hopefully get our ski area open this weekend. Other than that, it was a non-issue for us. The rain and wind were pretty nasty, but we kept our electricity the whole time, probably because I finally bought a 7800 watt generator last year. All is will in the Brooks household. Jack -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:05 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? Looks bad in Washington and Oregon.... Anyone impacted? Joe A Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From brad.kahler at 141.com Tue Dec 4 21:33:52 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:33:52 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Lucky people Message-ID: <47562A30.4000309@141.com> I have no idea why these clips keep showing up on the old dodge trucks forum but they do. Both are just amazing. http://www.czabe.com/mediaclips/index.shtml?a=showclip&id=880 http://www.czabe.com/mediaclips/index.shtml?a=showclip&id=877 Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Dec 5 06:59:58 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 07:59:58 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Lucky people In-Reply-To: <47562A30.4000309@141.com> References: <47562A30.4000309@141.com> Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820B9C9EDA@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> The videos are cool but the Panic button is better. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:34 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Lucky people I have no idea why these clips keep showing up on the old dodge trucks forum but they do. Both are just amazing. http://www.czabe.com/mediaclips/index.shtml?a=showclip&id=880 http://www.czabe.com/mediaclips/index.shtml?a=showclip&id=877 Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vanlake at bellsouth.net Wed Dec 5 09:45:45 2007 From: vanlake at bellsouth.net (vanlake at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:45:45 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? Message-ID: <120520071645.29897.4756D5B90000184C000074C922218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> I also like more information on what I need to do to make my TR6 rear hubs stay together. Does anyone know of a supplier / parts house for the 240Z hubs? Is it just the outside portion that is of concern? Has anyone tried the Richard Goods CV setup for a racer? looks nice, pricey though. Thanks. Also, I had a couple dozen of the large color laminated decals of the FOT logo made up by a friend of mine, I am hoping to pass them out at events through out the year. Oldspeed 72 Mark From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 5 12:53:04 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:53:04 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? Message-ID: If you think you can have decent hubs on a TR6 for the price of crappy eBay parts, you are sadly mistaken. There is a lot of straight-forward machine work involved. Richard Good's CV hubs may look pricey, but they will not cost much more than a home-grown solution. Stop wasting time and get Richard's stuff (usual disclaimer here). BTW, does anyone know if Richard's hubs are related to the old SNG Barrett hubs? > Does anyone know of a supplier / parts house for the 240Z hubs? > Is it just the outside portion that is of concern? Has anyone > tried the Richard Goods CV setup for a racer? looks nice, pricey though. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista. + Windows Live. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_M ediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Wed Dec 5 14:09:43 2007 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:09:43 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? Message-ID: <20071205150943.ujaugof0rw4gk4ww@secure.uwalumni.com> It was asked: > BTW, does anyone know if Richard's hubs are > related to the old SNG Barrett hubs? I don't know if they're "related", but I certainly hope they're not identical. I ran two races with the SNG Barrett CV set-up in my TR6 a few years back, and decided to try something else when one failed -- sending the car into an airborne 360-degree flat spin that gave me an excellent view of my departed left rear wheel as it rolled merrily into the weeds. Jim Hill From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Wed Dec 5 15:00:50 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:00:50 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? References: Message-ID: <023a01c8378a$4c9f6c30$1b02a8c0@workstation3> I agree. Either get the Corvair hubs, Z car, the Good Parts hubs or the Quaife hubs from England. They are all about the same price(y). Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Ingate" To: Cc: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? > If you think you can have decent hubs on a TR6 for the price > of crappy eBay parts, you are sadly mistaken. There is a lot of > straight-forward machine work involved. Richard Good's CV hubs may look > pricey, but they will not cost much more than a home-grown solution. > Stop wasting time and get Richard's stuff (usual disclaimer here). > > BTW, does anyone know if Richard's hubs are related to the old SNG > Barrett hubs? > > > Does anyone know of a supplier / parts house for the 240Z hubs? > > Is it just the outside portion that is of concern? Has anyone > > tried the Richard Goods CV setup for a racer? looks nice, pricey though. > > Shane Ingate in NM > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista. + Windows Live. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_M > ediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Dec 5 15:09:41 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:09:41 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200712052209.lB5M9lnW229004@ns3.geneseo.net> At 01:53 PM 12/5/2007, Shane Ingate wrote: If you think you can have decent hubs on a TR6 for the price of crappy eBay parts, etc............... I have been talking to Southwick about possibly supplying uprated hubs for the TR6. As you may know, Southwick Machine and Design currently supplies the virtually unbreakable rear axle conversion for the straight axle cars. We are looking at doing hubs for the TR6. At least one of the previous suppliers has decided to no longer supply them and he says he would welcome some other supplier for them. We really don't want to stomp on any toes of anyone currently making these parts. At this point it is in the discussion stage. At the moment we are waiting to get some stock rear suspension parts so that we can do the engineering. We are somewhat concerned about the availability of raw material - Corvair and Datsun 240 Z parts are not available in the Midwest, but perhaps they are available new somewhere. Bob Southwick wants to look at using newer parts that are more plentiful. Since so many cars have independent suspension nowadays, there are some more recent possibilities. I think there is a very good chance that all this will happen, but not overnight. If you are not in a big hurry for these parts and can wait a few months to give us a chance to engineer it, then this would be a possibility for you. uncle jack From goodparts at verizon.net Wed Dec 5 16:13:38 2007 From: goodparts at verizon.net (Richard Good) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:13:38 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? In-Reply-To: <20071205150943.ujaugof0rw4gk4ww@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <20071205150943.ujaugof0rw4gk4ww@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <475730A2.8010903@verizon.net> My hubs are not related to SNG Barrett's. I was not aware of theirs. Can anyone elaborate on their design? Mine use a sealed double row ball bearing like you would find in a common front wheel drive hub. The wheel flange presses into the ID of the bearing then the drive axle goes through the splined hole in the wheel flange with a big nut on the outside. The bearings are housed in custom machined steel hubs that bolt into the trailing arms. Should be bullet proof. I am currently looking into offering the same hub with heavy duty u-joint axles in lieu of the CV's for a lower cost option. Regards, Richard Good Good Parts spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: >It was asked: > > > >>BTW, does anyone know if Richard's hubs are >>related to the old SNG Barrett hubs? >> >> > >I don't know if they're "related", but I certainly hope they're not identical. > >I ran two races with the SNG Barrett CV set-up in my TR6 a few years >back, and decided to try something else when one failed -- sending the >car into an airborne 360-degree flat spin that gave me an excellent >view of my departed left rear wheel as it rolled merrily into the weeds. > >Jim Hill >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From markjwea at msn.com Thu Dec 6 06:55:41 2007 From: markjwea at msn.com (MARK J WEATHERS) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 14:55:41 +0100 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? In-Reply-To: <120520071645.29897.4756D5B90000184C000074C922218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> References: <120520071645.29897.4756D5B90000184C000074C922218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> Message-ID: Datsun 510 hubs are an option also, not sure if they are the same as 240Z. I put them on my 6 several years ago. Mark Weathers> From: vanlake at bellsouth.net> To: fot at autox.team.net> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:45:45 +0000> CC: vanlake at bellsouth.net> Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ?> > I also like more information on what I need to do to make my TR6 rear hubs stay together. Does anyone know of a supplier / parts house for the 240Z hubs? Is it just the outside portion that is of concern? Has anyone tried the Richard Goods CV setup for a racer? looks nice, pricey though. Thanks.> > Also, I had a couple dozen of the large color laminated decals of the FOT logo made up by a friend of mine, I am hoping to pass them out at events through out the year. Oldspeed 72 Mark> _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From REK46 at aol.com Thu Dec 6 11:33:00 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 13:33:00 EST Subject: [Fot] Spitfire in junkyard Message-ID: If anyone in the Michigan area is interested: there is a fairly cherry Spitfire 1500...in a junkyard in Ypsilanti..at RTS Automotive 2835 Coolidge Ypsi...ph 734 485-7676..contact..'Nick'...this is betw Detroit and AnnArbor...this info is from a contact,so I did NOT see it myself....rick ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From gaf3 at charter.net Thu Dec 6 11:54:20 2007 From: gaf3 at charter.net (Glenn Franco) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:54:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire in junkyard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4758455C.8010507@charter.net> I just called RTS, Nick is off sick, but the gentleman that answered the phone says they want $2200 for it. I'm local if anyone is interested. I'm at my limit (6) for Triumphs. Glenn Franco 72 Spit race car under construction REK46 at aol.com wrote: > If anyone in the Michigan area is interested: there is a fairly cherry > Spitfire 1500...in a junkyard in Ypsilanti..at RTS Automotive 2835 Coolidge > Ypsi...ph 734 485-7676..contact..'Nick'...this is betw Detroit and AnnArbor...this > info is from a contact,so I did NOT see it myself....rick > > > > ************************************** > Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. > > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 6 14:11:17 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:11:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? References: <120520071645.29897.4756D5B90000184C000074C922218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> Message-ID: <003001c8384c$8ad7af40$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> 240z & 510 are the same. I put a set (via Steve Smith) on a GT6. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MARK J WEATHERS" To: ; Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? > Datsun 510 hubs are an option also, not sure if they are the same as 240Z. > I > put them on my 6 several years ago. > > Mark Weathers> From: vanlake at bellsouth.net> To: fot at autox.team.net> Date: > Wed, > 5 Dec 2007 16:45:45 +0000> CC: vanlake at bellsouth.net> Subject: [Fot] TR6 > rear > Hubs ?> > I also like more information on what I need to do to make my TR6 > rear hubs stay together. Does anyone know of a supplier / parts house for > the > 240Z hubs? Is it just the outside portion that is of concern? Has anyone > tried > the Richard Goods CV setup for a racer? looks nice, pricey though. > Thanks.> > > Also, I had a couple dozen of the large color laminated decals of the FOT > logo > made up by a friend of mine, I am hoping to pass them out at events > through > out the year. Oldspeed 72 Mark> > _______________________________________________> > http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Thu Dec 6 16:00:48 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:00:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Christmas special on spindle reinforcing kit Message-ID: <200712062300.lB6N0txV415411@ns3.geneseo.net> Contact me off line for a very special price on the front spindle reinforcing kit. Christmas special price good through 25 December. uncle jack From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Dec 6 19:37:15 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:37:15 EST Subject: [Fot] The plot thickens... Message-ID: Amici... Ahem! I think I am aware why I received the two copies of TRIUMPH WORLD.'The December issue arrived today and includes an article by my friend, Paul Richardson, about me. I'm described as a 'character'. I'll not argue that. Will this make me a schill or pimp? No matter! My evaluation remains the same. Character article not withstanding, this issue has great stuff on the Michelotti Ginevra TR5 (a Triumph prototype I was unaware of), a tribute to Dorothy Deen (she was a fox), TR6 and GT6 stuff, and new stuff I really enjoy about 'Flying Standards' (suicide doors and all). I always wondered who started the waterfall front grille. TRIUMPH or HUDSON? Whatever... Bill (Damdinger) **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From BillB at bnj.com Thu Dec 6 20:14:34 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:14:34 -0800 Subject: [Fot] The plot thickens... References: Message-ID: Doesn't really matter Bill, once you get past fifty being called a pimp or a schill is a compliment. It means A. you can still handle women, and B. People would actually care what you say. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: Thu 12/6/2007 6:37 PM To: 'fot at autox.team.net' Subject: [Fot] The plot thickens... Amici... Ahem! I think I am aware why I received the two copies of TRIUMPH WORLD.'The December issue arrived today and includes an article by my friend, Paul Richardson, about me. I'm described as a 'character'. I'll not argue that. Will this make me a schill or pimp? No matter! My evaluation remains the same. Character article not withstanding, this issue has great stuff on the Michelotti Ginevra TR5 (a Triumph prototype I was unaware of), a tribute to Dorothy Deen (she was a fox), TR6 and GT6 stuff, and new stuff I really enjoy about 'Flying Standards' (suicide doors and all). I always wondered who started the waterfall front grille. TRIUMPH or HUDSON? Whatever... Bill (Damdinger) **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4.tony at virgin.net Sat Dec 8 04:46:20 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:46:20 -0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <004201c8398f$f39cdf70$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Amici Id like to propose Neil Revington for membership of our esteemed institution. Ive known Neil for 10 years at least now and I honestly dont know anyone who is as steeped in TR's as he is. Neil runs Revington TR and im sure many of you have spoken to him or bought some of te quality parts he supplies, te majority after thorough testing on one of his own TR's. Neil studied aeronautical engineering as an Electro- Mechanical engineer in the early 70's whilst completing a Ministry of Defence apprenticeship in quality assurance. After spending a few years an MOD QA officer, the wider world beckoned and Neil set up Revington TR after a move to Somerset England. The company has grown over the last 30 years and has become synonymous with quality and service. Neil has been the driving force behind most of the improvements offered by Revington TR, many of which are tested on Neil's own TR2 ( bought for #17 when an apprentice) and TR5. Cars prepared by Revington TR have had success in all forms of motor sport from trials, through sprints and Hillclimbs to rallies and races. Neil has competed in many of the forms himself, winning the Southern Sprint and Hillclimb championship in 1983 and a host of international rallies ( list attached) Neil continues to develop new improvements on a daily basis whilst running Revington TR. Neil also owns 6VC, one of the three surviving ex works TR4 rally cars and co owns 3VC with myself and 3 others ....... 6VC gets out in hot competition fairly regularly too, so he and I are very much of the same breed .... albeit he is shorter and smarter. Any seconds for me please ? Regards Tony From tr4.tony at virgin.net Sat Dec 8 04:48:20 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:48:20 -0000 Subject: [Fot] Neil Revington Message-ID: <006201c83990$3b19ce80$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> so here's the attachment ........ ;-) [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/msword which had a name of Neil's competition sucessses.doc] From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Sat Dec 8 05:22:29 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 07:22:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: <004201c8398f$f39cdf70$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Message-ID: <006201c83995$007977d0$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> I second. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TR4Tony" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 6:46 AM Subject: [Fot] Nomination > Amici > > Id like to propose Neil Revington for membership of our esteemed > institution. > Ive known Neil for 10 years at least now and I honestly dont know anyone > who > is as steeped in TR's as he is. > > Neil runs Revington TR and im sure many of you have spoken to him or > bought > some of te quality parts he supplies, te majority after thorough testing > on > one of his own TR's. > > Neil studied aeronautical engineering as an Electro- Mechanical engineer > in > the early 70's whilst completing a Ministry of Defence apprenticeship in > quality assurance. > After spending a few years an MOD QA officer, the wider world beckoned and > Neil set up Revington TR after a move to Somerset England. > > The company has grown over the last 30 years and has become synonymous > with > quality and service. > > Neil has been the driving force behind most of the improvements offered by > Revington TR, many of which are tested on Neil's own TR2 ( bought for #17 > when > an apprentice) and TR5. > > Cars prepared by Revington TR have had success in all forms of motor sport > from trials, through sprints and Hillclimbs to rallies and races. > > Neil has competed in many of the forms himself, winning the Southern > Sprint > and Hillclimb championship in 1983 and a host of international rallies ( > list > attached) > Neil continues to develop new improvements on a daily basis whilst running > Revington TR. > > Neil also owns 6VC, one of the three surviving ex works TR4 rally cars and > co > owns 3VC with myself and 3 others ....... 6VC gets out in hot competition > fairly regularly too, so he and I are very much of the same breed .... > albeit > he is shorter and smarter. > > Any seconds for me please ? > > Regards > > Tony > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sat Dec 8 09:41:56 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:41:56 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: <004201c8398f$f39cdf70$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Message-ID: <001801c839b9$3ea31fb0$3f0ec548@RW> It is my pleasure to second the nomination of Neil, a welcome and worthy addition to this list. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TR4Tony" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 3:46 AM Subject: [Fot] Nomination > Amici > > Id like to propose Neil Revington for membership of our esteemed > institution. > Ive known Neil for 10 years at least now and I honestly dont know anyone > who > is as steeped in TR's as he is. > > Neil runs Revington TR and im sure many of you have spoken to him or > bought > some of te quality parts he supplies, te majority after thorough testing > on > one of his own TR's. > > Neil studied aeronautical engineering as an Electro- Mechanical engineer > in > the early 70's whilst completing a Ministry of Defence apprenticeship in > quality assurance. > After spending a few years an MOD QA officer, the wider world beckoned and > Neil set up Revington TR after a move to Somerset England. > > The company has grown over the last 30 years and has become synonymous > with > quality and service. > > Neil has been the driving force behind most of the improvements offered by > Revington TR, many of which are tested on Neil's own TR2 ( bought for #17 > when > an apprentice) and TR5. > > Cars prepared by Revington TR have had success in all forms of motor sport > from trials, through sprints and Hillclimbs to rallies and races. > > Neil has competed in many of the forms himself, winning the Southern > Sprint > and Hillclimb championship in 1983 and a host of international rallies ( > list > attached) > Neil continues to develop new improvements on a daily basis whilst running > Revington TR. > > Neil also owns 6VC, one of the three surviving ex works TR4 rally cars and > co > owns 3VC with myself and 3 others ....... 6VC gets out in hot competition > fairly regularly too, so he and I are very much of the same breed .... > albeit > he is shorter and smarter. > > Any seconds for me please ? > > Regards > > Tony > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 8 09:44:37 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:44:37 EST Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: Tony, Attachments do not go through on FOT email. Bradakis will also need Neil's eMail address to include it on the list. Please extend an FoT Inivitation to Neil Revington to join us at Watkins Glen, per our earlier discussion. Best Regards, Joe A > Amici > > Id like to propose Neil Revington for membership of our esteemed institution. > Ive known Neil for 10 years at least now and I honestly dont know anyone who > is as steeped in TR's as he is. > > Neil runs Revington TR and im sure many of you have spoken to him or bought > some of te quality parts he supplies, te majority after thorough testing on > one of his own TR's. > > Neil studied aeronautical engineering as an Electro- Mechanical engineer in > the early 70's whilst completing a Ministry of Defence apprenticeship in > quality assurance. > After spending a few years an MOD QA officer, the wider world beckoned and > Neil set up Revington TR after a move to Somerset England. > > The company has grown over the last 30 years and has become synonymous with > quality and service. > > Neil has been the driving force behind most of the improvements offered by > Revington TR, many of which are tested on Neil's own TR2 ( bought for #17 > when > an apprentice) and TR5. > > Cars prepared by Revington TR have had success in all forms of motor sport > from trials, through sprints and Hillclimbs to rallies and races. > > Neil has competed in many of the forms himself, winning the Southern Sprint > and Hillclimb championship in 1983 and a host of international rallies ( list > attached) > Neil continues to develop new improvements on a daily basis whilst running > Revington TR. > > Neil also owns 6VC, one of the three surviving ex works TR4 rally cars and co > owns 3VC with myself and 3 others ....... 6VC gets out in hot competition > fairly regularly too, so he and I are very much of the same breed .... albeit > he is shorter and smarter. > > Any seconds for me please ? > > Regards > > Tony > From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 8 14:54:58 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:54:58 EST Subject: [Fot] TR3 TR4 SS Heat Shields Message-ID: FOT...if you dont have a TR3 or TR4 Delete now. The first 25 heatshields I made were based on my TR4 #197, not for street cars. Then I changed the design because the street guys wanted them. I have a few of them left lying about.....so I put them on eBay. I failed to contact this list. Then I got a note from one FoT member, who is going to put one on his 63 TR4. TR3 TR4 Stainless Steel Carb HS-needs notch & hole Item number: 170175413401 So if you want one, they are eBay, or you can contact me directly. CHEAP! Going fast. Thanks! Joe A From Gt6steve at aol.com Sat Dec 8 17:58:57 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 19:58:57 EST Subject: [Fot] California excursion Message-ID: Amici, I'm thinking of a motorhome cruise arond SoCal around the Christmas season. I want to go see Ken G. in the North but the rest is open. What is that beach north of LA that always has the campers in it? A lot of rocks on the land side? Could I possibly find an open site there in the winter? Where else should we go while trying to stay in the Southwest? I would look for something between Christmas and New Years so as not to intrude on celebrations. Steve, Pat and the HOUNDS OF HELL.....before anyone offers invitations;-))) ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Thu Dec 6 05:32:35 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoff Byrne) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 23:32:35 +1100 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? In-Reply-To: <475730A2.8010903@verizon.net> References: <20071205150943.ujaugof0rw4gk4ww@secure.uwalumni.com> <475730A2.8010903@verizon.net> Message-ID: <53B4703851C5459B8F9B38B1E48539D6@GEOFFPC> FOT For the benefit of all let me briefly outline our experience in Australia with this problem. We have had two cars go end over end when the rear hub broke and the wheel going under the rear body catapulting the car into the air . Luckly with only minor driver injuries in both case. I believe the problem can be traced to the hub design with the two piece hub asemble of an outer axle and hub. The outer bearing is mounted on the hub and the inner bearing on the axle. The hub and axle are secured by a taper and key with a nut on the outer end of the axle. It takes 50 ton to pull a sound hub apart to replace the bearing and i have seem damage done as a result . If the nut is left on the axle to prevent it flying apart when under a press the shock load of it coming apart is taken on the nut and threaded end of the axle . several failures have occurred due to the axle breaking at the base of the tread. We have a lot of Triumph saloons in Aus which have the same rear end and the hubs are interchangeable so a lot of parts get mixed up over the years . We have also discovered there are two different assemblies with different tapers on the axle which only vary by about 7degrees and can easily be mixed with dire results. What we did at first was to get a Datsun rear axle assemble and cut the trailing arm material off the bearing carrier . Turn the outside of the carrier and machine out the inside of the existing TR hub and press in the Datsun carrier , the outer faces flush gives correct hub face alignment . The two were then nickel bronze welded together ( TIG or stick welding usually leads to cracking). The axles need to be shortened ( let me know if you want details on how to do this properly)and the hand brake cable bracked bolt recessed to complete the mods. This arrangement has served sereral of us well for a number of years with no problem . I have recently taken this much further . We have had complete hubs machined and fitted the Datsun axle to them with CV joints both ends and a small floating axle between the two CVs . This is a much smother drive line arrangement works very well but is expensive. The arrangement sounds very much like Richards Goods product. My advice is that nobody should be racing an independant rear end TR with the standard hubs they will fail ... sometime . You simple do not want a hub assemble where the bearing loads are not on one common member. Incidently the same problem exists with the GT6 Mkll rear end ( the roto flex coupling one). They are two piece and fail the same way. The first ever GT6 to race in Aus in 1968 flipped at Warwick Farm when the rear hub broke . I raced a GT6 through the 1970s with special forged one piece hubs. Big horse power (Kas motor) and big wheels and no problems. Hope this helps the sharing of info for FOT let me know if anyone would like more details Regards Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Good" To: ; Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? > My hubs are not related to SNG Barrett's. I was not aware of theirs. > Can anyone elaborate on their design? Mine use a sealed double row ball > bearing like you would find in a common front wheel drive hub. The > wheel flange presses into the ID of the bearing then the drive axle goes > through the splined hole in the wheel flange with a big nut on the > outside. The bearings are housed in custom machined steel hubs that > bolt into the trailing arms. Should be bullet proof. > > I am currently looking into offering the same hub with heavy duty > u-joint axles in lieu of the CV's for a lower cost option. > > Regards, > Richard Good > Good Parts > > spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: > >>It was asked: >> >> >> >>>BTW, does anyone know if Richard's hubs are >>>related to the old SNG Barrett hubs? >>> >>> >> >>I don't know if they're "related", but I certainly hope they're not >>identical. >> >>I ran two races with the SNG Barrett CV set-up in my TR6 a few years >>back, and decided to try something else when one failed -- sending the >>car into an airborne 360-degree flat spin that gave me an excellent >>view of my departed left rear wheel as it rolled merrily into the weeds. >> >>Jim Hill >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sat Dec 8 22:20:27 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 00:20:27 EST Subject: [Fot] Re Neil Revington Message-ID: In a message dated 12/08/07 10:59:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: > Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:41:56 -0800 > From: "Kas Kastner" > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination > To: "TR4Tony" , > Cc: n197tr4 at cs.com > Message-ID: <001801c839b9$3ea31fb0$3f0ec548 at RW> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > It is my pleasure to second the nomination of Neil, a welcome and worthy > addition to this list. I know Neil, Fine fellow. Memories of a wonderful barbecue in Belfast, Northern Ireland with Neil & his lovely family, also met him at several TR Register International meetings at Malvern, Worcestershire, in England. I third him. Regards Leon F Guyot From dobrosailor at yahoo.com Sun Dec 9 11:47:46 2007 From: dobrosailor at yahoo.com (mark eginton) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 10:47:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Watkins etc Message-ID: <94383.39510.qm@web90309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greetings all, Its been quite a while since I dove into the archives to see what's been going on, been a busy summer. I was very happy to see all the activities around next year's Watkins Glen event. I live in Ithaca 20 minutes away so if there is anything I can help with in terms of local knowledge (e.g. cops tolerate 10 mph over above 45mph...), please feel free to contact me if I can help. I also have parts in case someone has "issues" that weekend. Had a great time last year meeting FOTrs gathered around any marquis ending in ...mph or ...ote. Looking forward to meeting more of you this year. Great advice to check out www.grandprixfestival.com I found room in the kana event, 20 cars only, for something less life threatening. I have a vintage Harley that needs a ride to southern california this summer if anyone has room on the trip back. Would be happy to help with expenses... I also have a complete stock engine I am going to sell this winter. Anyone venture a guess at how much to ask and a good venue to sell it. Its a good running 83mm std with negligable cylinder ridges, good compression and high port head. Valve cover to oil pan, water pump housing to flywheel, including manifold, no carbs. Best regards to all, Mark Eginton mee23 at cornell.edu --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. From triosan at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 11:55:04 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 10:55:04 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rod needed Message-ID: <8cbd782d0712091055u759043a6o622e531a9216f7f1@mail.gmail.com> I need on TR6 rod -- the variety that does not have the hole in the body. Have 5, need one more [duh]. Anybody have one to spare/sell? Thanks -- Chuck Arnold From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 9 12:13:40 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 14:13:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen 2008 Message-ID: <551FE5B8.2A5F8942.00159EE9@cs.com> mark, i am sure we can find something for you to do...several cars likely need co-drivers. off track events in the village is a big part of this weekend. your advice to visit the website is a good one. triumphs will be favored. but space is limited and early registration is advised. grandprixfestival.com joe a >Greetings all, > > Its been quite a while since I dove into the archives to see what's been going on, been a busy summer. I was very happy to see all the activities around next year's Watkins Glen event. I live in Ithaca 20 minutes away so if there is anything I can help with in terms of local knowledge (e.g. cops tolerate 10 mph over above 45mph...), please feel free to contact me if I can help. I also have parts in case someone has "issues" that weekend. > > Had a great time last year meeting FOTrs gathered around any marquis ending in ...mph or ...ote. Looking forward to meeting more of you this year. > > Great advice to check out www.grandprixfestival.com I found room in the kana event, 20 cars only, for something less life threatening. > > I have a vintage Harley that needs a ride to southern california this summer if anyone has room on the trip back. Would be happy to help with expenses... > > I also have a complete stock engine I am going to sell this winter. Anyone venture a guess at how much to ask and a good venue to sell it. Its a good running 83mm std with negligable cylinder ridges, good compression and high port head. Valve cover to oil pan, water pump housing to flywheel, including manifold, no carbs. > > Best regards to all, > > Mark Eginton > mee23 at cornell.edu > > > >--------------------------------- >Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jeff_durant at comcast.net Sun Dec 9 13:34:06 2007 From: jeff_durant at comcast.net (jeff_durant at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 20:34:06 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rod needed In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0712091055u759043a6o622e531a9216f7f1@mail.gmail.com> References: <8cbd782d0712091055u759043a6o622e531a9216f7f1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <578512221-1197232591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-83594374-@bxe122.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Chuck, I'll throw one in the package with the PI parts. I've plenty. Jeff Durant Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Chuck Arnold" Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 10:55:04 To:Friends , Triumph <6pack at autox.team.net> Subject: [Fot] TR6 rod needed I need on TR6 rod -- the variety that does not have the hole in the body. Have 5, need one more [duh]. Anybody have one to spare/sell? Thanks -- Chuck Arnold Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sun Dec 9 14:55:28 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 15:55:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] rear hubs Message-ID: <200712092155.lB9Ltaxn445885@ns3.geneseo.net> Hey Allen -- big discussion on the FOT about rear hubs for the TR6. What do you do for unbreakable rear hubs? uncle jack From awashatko at wi.rr.com Sun Dec 9 16:16:20 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 17:16:20 -0600 Subject: [Fot] rear hubs In-Reply-To: <200712092155.lB9Ltaxn445885@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200712092155.lB9Ltaxn445885@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: Uncle Jack, OK...my two cents. I'm using the hubs provided by David Wingett who has already weighed in. I made this modification awhile ago when I changed to tires that provided more "stick" and transferred much more load to the hubs. They have worked well without issue. Thank you David. I would probably recommend using the setup Goodparts is now offering. As you know, David seems to be out of the business of providing hubs. Richard's setup offers the CV joints, rated axles and easier to source replacement parts (bearings). Overall, a very complete system. His quality is always top notch. Allen On Dec 9, 2007, at 3:55 PM, Jack W. Drews wrote: > Hey Allen -- big discussion on the FOT about rear hubs for the TR6. > What do you do for unbreakable rear hubs? > > uncle jack > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 10 09:41:07 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:41:07 EST Subject: [Fot] Greg (Lunker) Hilyer has thrown his hat into the ring-THE GLEN 2008 Message-ID: FoT Greg has confirmed his plan to travel from New Mexico to New York with his TR3......Tom Strange...you can add GREG to the burgeoning excel spreadsheet as an entrant..... lunkercars at earthlink.net New FOT Robert P Smith is giving some consideration to making the trip from the BIG ISLAND with his young son, at least to attend. It's a party worth the plane ticket. Joe A From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 10 09:48:00 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:48:00 EST Subject: [Fot] Ted Schumacher- dba TSI Contribution to FOT Message-ID: FOT Ted recently sent a very generous check to the Friends of Triumph, by skimming his profit off of FOT Shirt Sales. I am not sure of what Ted's plans will be for the 'official' WATKINS GLEN SHIRT for 2008, but it will sort itself out as we know more about what we are going to do for shirts and their associated costs and price. Thank you to TSI for supporting the FOT coffers. Joe A From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Tue Dec 11 08:18:23 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:18:23 -0600 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound In-Reply-To: <475e9c67.249.4e0b.21914@cogeco.ca> References: <475e9c67.249.4e0b.21914@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <200712111518.lBBFIWtH053505@ns3.geneseo.net> Q: At 08:19 AM 12/11/2007, amcewen2 at cogeco.ca wrote: Just curious, does anybody know what the period road tests recorded for the top speed of the TR3? I remember reading the early Top speed model did a high speed run to 125mph but I'm assuming that was with wheel spats and no windscreen etc.. I'm curious about the standard car. Also does anybody have a recording of the horn? (mp3 or wav format). Thanks, Art. A. According to Road and Track of the era, stats went like this: TR2,1954 Top speed 95.9 no overdrive 103.8 in OD TR3 - 1956- one more ft lb torque R & T recorded top end at 105 Factory said 108 0-60 12 sec TR4 was leaps and bounds better (haha) factory said top end 110 0 - 60 10.5 By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville 140 hp on the engine dyno Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better salt conditions. It's amusing to me that the technical problems encountered were flywheel bolts shearing off and oil pump drive failure -- both of these problems are still common on vintage race cars if you don't use ARP bolts to hold on the flywheel and if you don't radius the ears on the oil pump. These problems almost never occur on street cars. >_______________________________________________ > >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >http://www.vtr.org > > >Triumphs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > >http://www.team.net/archive From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Dec 11 08:32:05 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:32:05 EST Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound Message-ID: In a message dated 12/11/2007 9:19:36 AM Central Standard Time, vinttr4 at geneseo.net writes: > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > 140 hp on the engine dyno > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > salt conditions. > > Amici... Watched The World's Fastest Indian on Showtime last night. Neat movie. Sure made me think of all of the 'backyard' engineers/mechanics we have as members of the FOT. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From kaskas at cox.net Tue Dec 11 09:06:13 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:06:13 -0800 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound References: <475e9c67.249.4e0b.21914@cogeco.ca> <200712111518.lBBFIWtH053505@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <002701c83c0f$c0b5b910$3f0ec548@RW> Just a bit of info on our Salt Flats run, that 128.2 MPH was an average speed over the timed section of 1/4 mile. and also the Salt is at 4000 feet altitude. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack W. Drews" To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 7:18 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > Q: > > At 08:19 AM 12/11/2007, amcewen2 at cogeco.ca wrote: > Just curious, does anybody know what the period road tests recorded > for the top speed of the TR3? I remember reading > the early Top speed model did a high speed run to 125mph but I'm > assuming that was with wheel spats and no windscreen etc.. I'm > curious about the standard car. > > Also does anybody have a recording of the horn? (mp3 or wav format). > > Thanks, > > Art. > > A. > > According to Road and Track of the era, stats went like this: > > TR2,1954 > > Top speed 95.9 no overdrive > 103.8 in OD > > TR3 - 1956- one more ft lb torque > R & T recorded top end at 105 > Factory said 108 > 0-60 12 sec > > TR4 was leaps and bounds better (haha) > factory said top end 110 > 0 - 60 10.5 > > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > 140 hp on the engine dyno > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > salt conditions. > > It's amusing to me that the technical problems encountered were > flywheel bolts shearing off and oil pump drive failure -- both of > these problems are still common on vintage race cars if you don't use > ARP bolts to hold on the flywheel and if you don't radius the ears on > the oil pump. These problems almost never occur on street cars. > > >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >>http://www.vtr.org >> >> >>Triumphs at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs >> >>http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Tue Dec 11 10:18:45 2007 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:18:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR3A Engine sound References: <475e9c67.249.4e0b.21914@cogeco.ca> <200712111518.lBBFIWtH053505@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <001c01c83c19$e3dab7b0$6401a8c0@Elliott> I don't have the horn sound, but the "web-mechanic" (sort of like a web master but better) for the web site of the Montreal Triumph Club has the sound of the 4-cylinder TR engine when you go there and also onto some of the menus on the left side. Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A, Montreal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack W. Drews" To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > Q: > > At 08:19 AM 12/11/2007, amcewen2 at cogeco.ca wrote: > Just curious, does anybody know what the period road tests recorded > for the top speed of the TR3? I remember reading > the early Top speed model did a high speed run to 125mph but I'm > assuming that was with wheel spats and no windscreen etc.. I'm > curious about the standard car. > > Also does anybody have a recording of the horn? (mp3 or wav format). > > Thanks, > > Art. > > A. > > According to Road and Track of the era, stats went like this: > > TR2,1954 > > Top speed 95.9 no overdrive > 103.8 in OD > > TR3 - 1956- one more ft lb torque > R & T recorded top end at 105 > Factory said 108 > 0-60 12 sec > > TR4 was leaps and bounds better (haha) > factory said top end 110 > 0 - 60 10.5 > > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > 140 hp on the engine dyno > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > salt conditions. > > It's amusing to me that the technical problems encountered were > flywheel bolts shearing off and oil pump drive failure -- both of > these problems are still common on vintage race cars if you don't use > ARP bolts to hold on the flywheel and if you don't radius the ears on > the oil pump. These problems almost never occur on street cars. > > >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >>http://www.vtr.org >> >> >>Triumphs at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs >> >>http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Tue Dec 11 10:21:04 2007 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:21:04 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fw: TR3A Engine sound Message-ID: <002a01c83c1a$387e32b0$6401a8c0@Elliott> I forgot to add the link. http://www.rucompatible.com/triumphmtl/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> To: "Jack W. Drews" ; ; Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:18 PM Subject: TR3A Engine sound >I don't have the horn sound, but the "web-mechanic" (sort of like a web >master but better) for the web site of the Montreal Triumph Club has the >sound of the 4-cylinder TR engine when you go there and also onto some of >the menus on the left side. > > Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A, Montreal > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack W. Drews" > To: ; ; > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:18 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > > >> Q: >> >> At 08:19 AM 12/11/2007, amcewen2 at cogeco.ca wrote: >> Just curious, does anybody know what the period road tests recorded >> for the top speed of the TR3? I remember reading >> the early Top speed model did a high speed run to 125mph but I'm >> assuming that was with wheel spats and no windscreen etc.. I'm >> curious about the standard car. >> >> Also does anybody have a recording of the horn? (mp3 or wav format). >> >> Thanks, >> >> Art. >> >> A. >> >> According to Road and Track of the era, stats went like this: >> >> TR2,1954 >> >> Top speed 95.9 no overdrive >> 103.8 in OD >> >> TR3 - 1956- one more ft lb torque >> R & T recorded top end at 105 >> Factory said 108 >> 0-60 12 sec >> >> TR4 was leaps and bounds better (haha) >> factory said top end 110 >> 0 - 60 10.5 >> >> By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville >> 140 hp on the engine dyno >> Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with >> SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better >> salt conditions. >> >> It's amusing to me that the technical problems encountered were >> flywheel bolts shearing off and oil pump drive failure -- both of >> these problems are still common on vintage race cars if you don't use >> ARP bolts to hold on the flywheel and if you don't radius the ears on >> the oil pump. These problems almost never occur on street cars. >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>> >>>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>>This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >>>http://www.vtr.org >>> >>> >>>Triumphs at autox.team.net >>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs >>> >>>http://www.team.net/archive >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tlizzard at msn.com Tue Dec 11 10:27:52 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:27:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound References: Message-ID: Not sure about in the day, but my TR3A street car, with Webers, a header, 2.2 liner kit, 3.7 axle and O.D. did an honest 111 mph once. Felt like 200... Hehe. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: BillDentin at aol.com To: vinttr4 at geneseo.net ; amcewen2 at cogeco.ca ; triumphs at autox.team.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound In a message dated 12/11/2007 9:19:36 AM Central Standard Time, vinttr4 at geneseo.net writes: > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > 140 hp on the engine dyno > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > salt conditions. > > Amici... Watched The World's Fastest Indian on Showtime last night. Neat movie. Sure made me think of all of the 'backyard' engineers/mechanics we have as members of the FOT. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From koblinger at verizon.net Tue Dec 11 11:11:12 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:11:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound Message-ID: <18080413.18664781197396672854.JavaMail.root@vms170.mailsrvcs.net> >From: Kas Kastner Kas, I've always wondered, do cars at Bonneville ever really hook-up, or are you getting wheel spin all the way down the course? Cheers, Kurt O. >Date: 2007/12/11 Tue AM 10:06:13 CST >To: amcewen2 at cogeco.ca, triumphs at autox.team.net, fot at autox.team.net, "Jack W. Drews" >Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound >Just a bit of info on our Salt Flats run, that 128.2 MPH was an average >speed over the timed section of 1/4 mile. and also the Salt is at 4000 feet >altitude. From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 11 11:58:56 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:58:56 -0800 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound References: Message-ID: With a 3.7 axle on Hoosier Speedsters I saw 6400 RPM at Brainerd in turn two, tucked in behind a Porsche whale tail with an added wing. Of course I was kind of busy, but it sure was fun. By my calculations that's 133, but I might have made an error. I think that's the fastest I've ever gone in Peyote, though I was also out of revs in the back straight at VIR and the front straight at Road Atlanta -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Terry Stetler Sent: Tue 12/11/2007 9:27 AM To: vinttr4 at geneseo.net; amcewen2 at cogeco.ca; triumphs at autox.team.net; fot at autox.team.net; BillDentin at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound Not sure about in the day, but my TR3A street car, with Webers, a header, 2.2 liner kit, 3.7 axle and O.D. did an honest 111 mph once. Felt like 200... Hehe. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: BillDentin at aol.com To: vinttr4 at geneseo.net ; amcewen2 at cogeco.ca ; triumphs at autox.team.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound In a message dated 12/11/2007 9:19:36 AM Central Standard Time, vinttr4 at geneseo.net writes: > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > 140 hp on the engine dyno > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > salt conditions. > > Amici... Watched The World's Fastest Indian on Showtime last night. Neat movie. Sure made me think of all of the 'backyard' engineers/mechanics we have as members of the FOT. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From hottr6 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 11 12:27:12 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:27:12 -0500 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound Message-ID: I didn't know the TR3 needed a horn as it is not fast enough to get out of its own way. Jus kiddin'......... ;) I'm snowed in today, so I'm not moving very fast either. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007 From Gt6steve at aol.com Tue Dec 11 13:58:53 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:58:53 EST Subject: [Fot] Tubing for Triumph Message-ID: Hey tube fetishists, I need some help on a couple things. Firstly being hydraulic style tubing. Have you any thoughts on replacing the braided steel lines running to my drysump tank with hard steel or aluminum lines. I'm thinking the area in the cockpit can be cleaned up with hard lines. I'm looking at two runs of 3/4 (-12) from the firewall in front of the driver to the right rear of the passenger seat well. Second search is for header tubing. Where do we buy the thinwall tube for making headers? Just mils steel, I'll leave the Inconel to the experts. Thanx in advance, Steve Smith **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From triosan at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 14:05:26 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:05:26 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Tubing for Triumph In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8cbd782d0712111305r6dddd111pcc6e8a5ab65c96a@mail.gmail.com> Steve, I have had good results with Burns Stainless for tubing and for design. Talk to Casey. www.burnsstainless.com casey at burnsstainless.com On Dec 11, 2007 12:58 PM, wrote: > Hey tube fetishists, I need some help on a couple things. > > Firstly being hydraulic style tubing. Have you any thoughts on replacing the > braided steel lines running to my drysump tank with hard steel or aluminum > lines. I'm thinking the area in the cockpit can be cleaned up with hard lines. > I'm looking at two runs of 3/4 (-12) from the firewall in front of the driver > to the right rear of the passenger seat well. > > Second search is for header tubing. Where do we buy the thinwall tube for > making headers? Just mils steel, I'll leave the Inconel to the experts. > > Thanx in advance, Steve Smith > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From chasgee at aol.com Tue Dec 11 17:31:09 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:31:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Tubing for Triumph In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA0A6D6CC33E8C-F40-3175@webmail-me12.sysops.aol.com> Steve, By a cheap V-8 header set from someone like Speedway or Summit.? A kit with all the bent tubes in the diameter you need.? This way you can cut to get the bends you need and weld it all together. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:58 pm Subject: [Fot] Tubing for Triumph Hey tube fetishists, I need some help on a couple things. Firstly being hydraulic style tubing. Have you any thoughts on replacing the braided steel lines running to my drysump tank with hard steel or aluminum lines. I'm thinking the area in the cockpit can be cleaned up with hard lines. I'm looking at two runs of 3/4 (-12) from the firewall in front of the driver to the right rear of the passenger seat well. Second search is for header tubing. Where do we buy the thinwall tube for making headers? Just mils steel, I'll leave the Inconel to the experts. Thanx in advance, Steve Smith **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com From Gt6steve at aol.com Tue Dec 11 18:57:12 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:57:12 EST Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Tubing for Triumph Message-ID: **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Return-path: From: Gt6steve at aol.com Full-name: Gt6steve Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:56:32 EST Subject: Re: [Fot] Tubing for Triumph To: Chasgee at aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10705 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Thanx Chuck, I'd forgotten Speedway. Last go'round I bought a box of "misbends". You're right. There's enough good bits in there to cobble up most anything. Are you and Mike up for a "road trip"? ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Wed Dec 12 00:53:28 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoff Byrne) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:53:28 +1100 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fastest record we have in Aus is a TR3A doing 151mph down conrod straight at Bathurst BUT it is down hill with a very looong straight Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Terry Stetler" ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 5:58 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > With a 3.7 axle on Hoosier Speedsters I saw 6400 RPM at Brainerd in turn > two, > tucked in behind a Porsche whale tail with an added wing. Of course I was > kind > of busy, but it sure was fun. By my calculations that's 133, but I might > have > made an error. I think that's the fastest I've ever gone in Peyote, though > I > was also out of revs in the back straight at VIR and the front straight at > Road Atlanta > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Terry Stetler > Sent: Tue 12/11/2007 9:27 AM > To: vinttr4 at geneseo.net; amcewen2 at cogeco.ca; triumphs at autox.team.net; > fot at autox.team.net; BillDentin at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > > Not sure about in the day, but my TR3A street car, with Webers, a header, > 2.2 > liner kit, 3.7 axle and O.D. did an honest 111 mph once. > > Felt like 200... > > Hehe. > > Terry Stetler > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BillDentin at aol.com > To: vinttr4 at geneseo.net ; > amcewen2 at cogeco.ca ; > triumphs at autox.team.net ; > fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:32 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > > > In a message dated 12/11/2007 9:19:36 AM Central Standard Time, > vinttr4 at geneseo.net writes: > > > > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > > 140 hp on the engine dyno > > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > > salt conditions. > > > > > > Amici... > > Watched The World's Fastest Indian on Showtime last night. Neat movie. > Sure > made me think of all of the 'backyard' engineers/mechanics we have as > members > of the FOT. > > Bill (Damdinger) > > > ************************************** > See AOL's top rated > recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004 aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004>) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot stinfo/fot> > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Dec 12 07:03:45 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:03:45 EST Subject: [Fot] Offer: Alloy Head Lamp Replacements Decal Installed Message-ID: FoT, I am going to make up some sets of spun aluminum headlamp replacements with the P-700 Lucas Tripod decal installed...for a couple of FoT. Special Price....thought I should offer to everyone. Check in with me for price and picture, if you are interested. They are available at Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies, separately, too. Thanks N197tr4 at cs.com From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Wed Dec 12 07:03:49 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:03:49 -0500 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound References: Message-ID: <000001c83cc7$e8270950$0200a8c0@Desktop> OUCH! OK 3 guys its your turn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Ingate" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound >I didn't know the TR3 needed a horn as it is not fast enough > to get out of its own way. > > Jus kiddin'......... ;) > > I'm snowed in today, so I'm not moving very fast either. > > Shane Ingate in NM > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. > http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Wed Dec 12 07:05:35 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:05:35 -0500 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound Message-ID: <000801c83cc8$11917410$0200a8c0@Desktop> OUCH! OK 3 guys its your turn ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shane Ingate" > To: "Friends of Triumph" > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 2:27 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > > >>I didn't know the TR3 needed a horn as it is not fast enough >> to get out of its own way. >> >> Jus kiddin'......... ;) >> >> I'm snowed in today, so I'm not moving very fast either. >> >> Shane Ingate in NM >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. >> http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007 >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Wed Dec 12 09:33:57 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:33:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Message-ID: <47600D75.1090709@bradakis.com> Tuesday the 11th was the 11th anniversary of this list. Thanks to you all who have made it what it is! mjb. From REK46 at aol.com Wed Dec 12 09:50:26 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:50:26 EST Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Message-ID: and my birthday.........50 plus 11 ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From spitfiresuz at 141.com Wed Dec 12 10:24:03 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:24:03 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Message-ID: <380-220071231217243453@M2W012.mail2web.com> And especially here's to YOU, Mark! You're the one who made it so we could make it what it is! Happy Anniversary everyone! Keep Triumphing, Susan :) Original Message: ----------------- From: Mark J. Bradakis mark at bradakis.com Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:33:57 -0700 To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Tuesday the 11th was the 11th anniversary of this list. Thanks to you all who have made it what it is! mjb. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE  Free email based on Microsoft. Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE From emanteno at comcast.net Wed Dec 12 10:42:34 2007 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:42:34 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Message-ID: <121220071742.25972.47601D8A00077D8E000065742200735446970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "spitfiresuz at 141.com" > And especially here's to YOU, Mark! THANKS, Mark, for making it happen. From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Wed Dec 12 11:09:33 2007 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (JRH) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:09:33 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! References: <121220071742.25972.47601D8A00077D8E000065742200735446970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <03f901c83cea$276196e0$a6aee246@gcllawyers.local> Irv "emanteno" Korey wrote: >>> Here's to us! >> And especially here's to YOU, Mark! > THANKS, Mark, for making it happen. Thanks Indeed! And a special thanks for reminding me how old I am :-) Jim Hill Triumph TR-6 Ford Prowler From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Dec 12 16:15:42 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:15:42 EST Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Message-ID: Time goes by quickly when you are alive. Thanks Mark! Joe A > Tuesday the 11th was the 11th anniversary of this list. Thanks to you > all who have made it what it is! > > mjb. > From don at carterdesignassociates.com Wed Dec 12 16:35:56 2007 From: don at carterdesignassociates.com (Don Carter) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:35:56 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003c01c83d17$c147cef0$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> Project well done, MJB. Without this resource it would be difficult for me to keep a couple or three Triumphs going. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com -> Tuesday the 11th was the 11th anniversary of this list. Thanks to you > all who have made it what it is! > > mjb. > Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From don at carterdesignassociates.com Wed Dec 12 16:46:15 2007 From: don at carterdesignassociates.com (Don Carter) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:46:15 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003f01c83d19$3241d0f0$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> Happy to All!!! A few weeks ago I asked for diagnostic help with a right front brake that was locking up on me. I was trying to blame everything on parts that I hadn't already replaced, and refused to blame any new parts like the caliper itself. It was the caliper itself. Once again proving the FOT gang was right and parts can be faulty even if new. Thanks, Joe A and John Lye for the help. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rjl at gt-classics.com Wed Dec 12 19:25:29 2007 From: rjl at gt-classics.com (R. John Lye) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:25:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! In-Reply-To: <47600D75.1090709@bradakis.com> References: <47600D75.1090709@bradakis.com> Message-ID: At 11:33 AM 12/12/2007, Mark J. Bradakis wrote: >Tuesday the 11th was the 11th anniversary of this list. Thanks to you >all who have made it what it is! Wow, has it really been that long since that evening at Mid-Ohio, when Joe A. and I first talked about an idea that he had, and I knew just the person who could make it happen? Amazing. Good job, Mark. Its been a great resource all these years. R. John Lye rjl6n at cstone.net From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Wed Dec 12 21:53:31 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:53:31 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FW: part availablity Message-ID: <000501c83d44$1bf15390$6401a8c0@blake1> FYI I was having trouble finding a steering shaft coupler or U-joint in the 9/16  36 size used on the TR4 rack. If anyone needs one, the part numbers for Borgeson Univeral are below. I am not sure for what other models this might apply. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: Gil Evans [mailto:Gil at borgeson.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 7:08 AM To: Greg & Alison Blake Subject: RE: part availablity Greg, We have this in a coupler or a u-joint. The coupler is Part No. 311200 at $19.73, the u-joint is Part No. 011264 at $72.70. Just give us a call at 860-482-8283 if you'd like to order. We accept Visa, Mastercard, and Discover credit cards and both items are in stock. Thanks, Gil Evans Borgeson Universal Co. _____ From: Greg & Alison Blake [mailto:ablake2 at austin.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:57 AM To: Gil Evans Subject: part availablity I need a 9/16 x 36 spline with a > smooth bore on the other end this can be a coupler or U joint. Do you have this part and how much are they and can I order it direct? Thanks, Greg From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Wed Dec 12 21:26:24 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:26:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] 2008 North-Atlantic Production Car Challenge Message-ID: <908718.92064.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> FOT, I am sending out an email the members of the list to enlist the assistance of this well connected group of triumph enthusiasts. As many know (others may not), I race an HP classed MKII spitfire with the SCCA. I have been running the car since a complete "resurrection" back in 2004. Over the course of 2007, I experienced a decline in attendance at many of the great races in the Northeast division of the SCCA. The production classes were affected for several reasons, and over the last couple months the most notable objection (the run group) was addressed and changes were made and 2008 should be better. These changes are specific to the upper northeast and I am excited about seeing an improvement in attendance in the coming year. While I had some "down time" I thought about an additional way to improve attendance at the regional races in the northeast and I developed a new production car series that has just been launched to the current drivers earlier this week. Now that the current drivers have been contacted, I wanted to introduce the series to the members of the FOT. My reason is that we all know a driver who has a car that has been taking up space in a barn for several years and just needs that little push to bring the car out. Now, I realize the majority of the participants of FOT have triumphs (obviously), but we may have friends with triumphs just itching to get back on the track as well as friends with other marques. My request is that if anyone knows a driver/ car in the northeast that would be interested in participating or someone on the list that is interested in learning more, please direct those individuals to www.production-car.com this website is the official website of the North-Atlantic Production Car Challenge. Partial details about the series can be found on the website with more coming soon. And I encourage those interested in following SCCA racing in the NEDIV to stay tuned to the website throughout the season. For anyone interested, there are contingency/ sponsorship opportunities available. Please feel free to contact me off list if anyone is interested in discussing such opportunities. I am very excited about the series and the feedback so far has been very favorable. thanks for your time Jay R. Creel #44 Jaxon Motorsports Triumph Spitfire ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From BillB at bnj.com Wed Dec 12 23:08:26 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:08:26 -0800 Subject: [Fot] FW: part availablity References: <000501c83d44$1bf15390$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: I just got finished building a complete Borgeson steering system for Peyote. The old steering shaft and coupler was pretty dodgy, especially considering the speeds that Peyote is capable of. It is funny to look at the steering systems that we depend on in our cars and what's considered minimally acceptable in a modern race car. At the very least consider replacing all the grade eight (or less!!) bolts with properly sized and shouldered aircraft bolts. The pinch bolt on my universal failed when I loosened it. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Greg & Alison Blake Sent: Wed 12/12/2007 8:53 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] FW: part availablity FYI I was having trouble finding a steering shaft coupler or U-joint in the 9/16  36 size used on the TR4 rack. If anyone needs one, the part numbers for Borgeson Univeral are below. I am not sure for what other models this might apply. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: Gil Evans [mailto:Gil at borgeson.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 7:08 AM To: Greg & Alison Blake Subject: RE: part availablity Greg, We have this in a coupler or a u-joint. The coupler is Part No. 311200 at $19.73, the u-joint is Part No. 011264 at $72.70. Just give us a call at 860-482-8283 if you'd like to order. We accept Visa, Mastercard, and Discover credit cards and both items are in stock. Thanks, Gil Evans Borgeson Universal Co. _____ From: Greg & Alison Blake [mailto:ablake2 at austin.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:57 AM To: Gil Evans Subject: part availablity I need a 9/16 x 36 spline with a > smooth bore on the other end this can be a coupler or U joint. Do you have this part and how much are they and can I order it direct? Thanks, Greg Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Dec 13 09:16:07 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:16:07 EST Subject: [Fot] FoT Volunteer Needed for Watkins Glen Message-ID: List: It appears that we will have a couple VIP folks coming to The Glen. And their very special Triumph. I am not looking for a full time 'baby sitter', but some non racing FoT(s) who knows the ropes at the Glen. Especially, the downtown Village Activites. Our GUESTs will have their own cars, for transportation and will not need major hand holding. Reservations are being made for them at the Hampton Inn in Painted Post. There will be specific places that they will need to be and there will be some media involvement. (no it's not Paul Newman) And we will need to insure that the Triumph is secured and protected at all times. Attn: Tom Strange & WPTA: We will provide a place for it to be displayed at the FoT Hospitality Area. Thanks, Joe From REK46 at aol.com Thu Dec 13 09:18:49 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:18:49 EST Subject: [Fot] FoT Volunteer Needed for Watkins Glen Message-ID: now we're all properly titillated ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Dec 13 19:47:14 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:47:14 EST Subject: [Fot] 87MM Cylinder Liners-Anybody need an odd one or two liners? Message-ID: List: I just ran a small lot of Cylinder Liners. I have three liners for a short set. They are liners bored from 86MM to 87MM and honed. Ready to install. If someone needs just one or two to replace damaged or worn liner(s), contact me off list. If you want a set bored to your spec, I can tell you where to send them. NFI. We have done several sets recently for various midwest folks...slow period for this performance engine place....quick turn around. Joe A From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Thu Dec 13 23:53:57 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:53:57 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: <001c01c83e1e$19c74590$0502a8c0@desktop> FoT, I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for a little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR of about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge flywheel. I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will probably use Venolia pistons. Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting rod from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is better? Thanks Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net Fri Dec 14 06:31:27 2007 From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:31:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: <380-2200712514133127729@earthlink.net> Charly Try these http//www.pauter.com/ , http//www.jepistons.com/ Chip > [Original Message] > From: Charly Mitchel > To: Friends ; Chuck Arnold > Date: 12/14/2007 1:54:14 AM > Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild > > FoT, > I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for a > little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR of > about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge flywheel. > I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. > I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will probably use > Venolia pistons. > Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting rod > from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is > better? > Thanks > Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.1/1183 - Release Date: 12/13/2007 9:15 AM From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Fri Dec 14 06:40:06 2007 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 05:40:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Dean Tetterton Message-ID: <763689.93902.qm@web81706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dean - can you shoot me an email Thanks Dennis From cwn74 at aol.com Fri Dec 14 09:04:29 2007 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:04:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FoT Volunteer Needed for Watkins Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <010301c83e6b$0200d190$1442a8c0@semperon3400> Joe, I have been to the last 3 or 4 Zippo's at the Glen as crew for an MGTD that has participated in the downtown event on Friday for the race reenactment. As an SCCA marshal of 35+ years I also know many of the local volunteer folks that are downtown (and at the track) making it happen. I would also be able to tune them in to our needs if necessary. My MGTD friend may not be in attendance for 2008 and if so I can offer my assistance. If so, I could arrive on Wednesday or Thursday depending on needs. Would I need to stay at the location of the people in question? Let me know what is needed and I hope to help out! Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." From BillB at bnj.com Fri Dec 14 10:11:31 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:11:31 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Peyote Progress References: Message-ID: I've had a few questions about progress on Peyote, so I'm getting a little more serious about documenting the process of sticking the poor crushed bugger back together. Here's the latest. http://www.allaluminumtour.com/ From hottr6 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 14 12:32:37 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:32:37 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: Charly Mitchell asked: > I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for a > little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR of > about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge flywheel. > I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. > I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will probably use > Venolia pistons. > Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting rod > from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is > better? Stock crankshaft!!! =80 Your best investment is first cross-drilling the crank and then have it nitrided. Then I would throw money into reducing the reciprocating weight. Shane Ingate, "reliability and strength first", in NM. _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec From jaboruch at netzero.net Fri Dec 14 14:53:19 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:53:19 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: <20071214.165319.3323.0@webmail01.dca.untd.com> I have been using Pauter rods in may TR3 and they have worked very well. Priced much lower than Carillos, but made from the same steel and same forge as Carillos. Joe(B) -- "U K MOTORSPORTS" wrote: Charly Try these http//www.pauter.com/ , http//www.jepistons.com/ Chip > [Original Message] > From: Charly Mitchel > To: Friends ; Chuck Arnold > Date: 12/14/2007 1:54:14 AM > Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild > > FoT, > I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for a > little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR of > about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge flywheel. > I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. > I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will probably use > Venolia pistons. > Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting rod > from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is > better? > Thanks > Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.1/1183 - Release Date: 12/13/2007 9:15 AM Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click to shop and compare great deals on trucks. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlMsqkSpl6uP1OgDoZYd9CvJ JJh5CJFTjeDThQCGzr5RbEth/ From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Fri Dec 14 17:06:29 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:06:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild In-Reply-To: <001c01c83e1e$19c74590$0502a8c0@desktop> References: <001c01c83e1e$19c74590$0502a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <47631A85.8000500@cyberspeedway.net> Charly, The TR6 rod is fine if you follow Kas' comp prep instructions and shot peen them. We used to shift at 7600 rpm and the rods never gave a problem. Carrillo rods used to use 1/4" rod bolts and the only people I know who broke TR6 rods were Carrillo users. Carrillo did this because they didn't/wouldn't split the rods on a diagonal and there isn't any room for bigger bolts on a conventional pattern rod due to the small bore of a TR6. I had talked with Crower at one point and they thought they could use 9/32" or 5/16" bolts. I also investigated Pauter and at the time they thought they could do a diagonal split rod. The piston acceleration on a TR6 is brutal because of the long stroke short rod combination. At 7000 rpm it is about the same as a 4" x 3" small block Chevy at 10,000 rpm. First choice for pistons is Cosworth. We ran one set for 12 years, 6-8 races a year. Arias is good too but the Cosworths fit the best at temperature. Greg Lund Charly Mitchel wrote: > FoT, > I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for a > little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR of > about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge flywheel. > I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. > I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will probably use > Venolia pistons. > Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting rod > from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is > better? > Thanks > Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Fri Dec 14 17:29:13 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:29:13 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire 1500 prep Message-ID: <20071214.172914.3908.2.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Greetings all, My neighbor bought my '76 Spitfire from me. It's the one which expired with the #3 rod hammering its bearings into a flaky, blue ring. He & his brother are bringing it back to life, and I'd like to get them some details on improving 1500 bottom end reliability. They are going pretty much stock/street, I do not think they will go for 'scrap it & get a 1296'. I didn't seem to be able to access anything on the FoT website. Thanks in advance. Merry Christmas, Bill From awashatko at wi.rr.com Fri Dec 14 18:31:54 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:31:54 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell Message-ID: <321d1942dc33eae060d400e5a11ff4b7@wi.rr.com> FoT, Will be replacing the original fuel cell that my TR6 came with. It has no identification as to the manufacturer. Which manufacturers are currently being recommended from a quality and price point of view? I'm looking at a 10 gal. capacity. Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net Fri Dec 14 18:47:57 2007 From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:47:57 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell Message-ID: <380-220071261514757801@earthlink.net> Allen...try Fuel Safe or ATL...Chip > [Original Message] > From: Allen Washatko > To: Friends of Triumph > Date: 12/14/2007 8:31:56 PM > Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell > > FoT, > > Will be replacing the original fuel cell that my TR6 came with. It has > no identification as to the manufacturer. Which manufacturers are > currently being recommended from a quality and price point of view? I'm > looking at a 10 gal. capacity. > > Allen > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.2/1184 - Release Date: 12/14/2007 11:29 AM From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Dec 14 20:09:59 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:09:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild References: <001c01c83e1e$19c74590$0502a8c0@desktop> <47631A85.8000500@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <001701c83ec7$fa8d2ff0$0502a8c0@desktop> Greg, great information. I've looked in to getting Venolia pistons at about $100 a piece and I've been thinking along the lines of using the stock rods. I have the whole selection of Kas' books and plan to do the lightening as he recommends. Where do I find info on the Cosworth pistons? Are they available in the USA? Thanks, Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "greg" To: "Charly Mitchel" Cc: "FOT LIST" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild > Charly, > The TR6 rod is fine if you follow Kas' comp prep instructions and > shot peen them. We used to shift at 7600 rpm and the rods never gave a > problem. Carrillo rods used to use 1/4" rod bolts and the only people I > know who broke TR6 rods were Carrillo users. Carrillo did this because > they didn't/wouldn't split the rods on a diagonal and there isn't any room > for bigger bolts on a conventional pattern rod due to the small bore of a > TR6. I had talked with Crower at one point and they thought they could use > 9/32" or 5/16" bolts. I also investigated Pauter and at the time they > thought they could do a diagonal split rod. The piston acceleration on a > TR6 is brutal because of the long stroke short rod combination. At 7000 > rpm it is about the same as a 4" x 3" small block Chevy at 10,000 rpm. > First choice for pistons is Cosworth. We ran one set for 12 years, > 6-8 races a year. Arias is good too but the Cosworths fit the best at > temperature. > Greg Lund > Charly Mitchel wrote: >> FoT, >> I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for >> a >> little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR >> of >> about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge >> flywheel. >> I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. >> I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will >> probably use >> Venolia pistons. >> Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting >> rod >> from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is >> better? >> Thanks >> Charly Mitchel >> TR6 #44 >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Dec 14 20:39:58 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:39:58 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild References: <001c01c83e1e$19c74590$0502a8c0@desktop><47631A85.8000500@cyberspeedway.net> <001701c83ec7$fa8d2ff0$0502a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <002001c83ecc$2b200b70$0502a8c0@desktop> I have another question about rods. Has anyone taken off to much material from the stock rods? How much was it? What happened to the rod? Just think ahead for my grinding process. Thanks Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charly Mitchel" To: "greg" Cc: "FOT LIST" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild > Greg, great information. I've looked in to getting Venolia pistons at > about > $100 a piece and I've been thinking along the lines of using the stock > rods. > I have the whole selection of Kas' books and plan to do the lightening as > he > recommends. Where do I find info on the Cosworth pistons? Are they > available in the USA? > Thanks, Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "greg" > To: "Charly Mitchel" > Cc: "FOT LIST" > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 4:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild > > >> Charly, >> The TR6 rod is fine if you follow Kas' comp prep instructions and >> shot peen them. We used to shift at 7600 rpm and the rods never gave a >> problem. Carrillo rods used to use 1/4" rod bolts and the only people I >> know who broke TR6 rods were Carrillo users. Carrillo did this because >> they didn't/wouldn't split the rods on a diagonal and there isn't any >> room >> for bigger bolts on a conventional pattern rod due to the small bore of a >> TR6. I had talked with Crower at one point and they thought they could >> use >> 9/32" or 5/16" bolts. I also investigated Pauter and at the time they >> thought they could do a diagonal split rod. The piston acceleration on a >> TR6 is brutal because of the long stroke short rod combination. At 7000 >> rpm it is about the same as a 4" x 3" small block Chevy at 10,000 rpm. >> First choice for pistons is Cosworth. We ran one set for 12 years, >> 6-8 races a year. Arias is good too but the Cosworths fit the best at >> temperature. >> Greg Lund >> Charly Mitchel wrote: >>> FoT, >>> I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for >>> a >>> little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR >>> of >>> about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge >>> flywheel. >>> I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. >>> I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will >>> probably use >>> Venolia pistons. >>> Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting >>> rod >>> from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is >>> better? >>> Thanks >>> Charly Mitchel >>> TR6 #44 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Fri Dec 14 21:48:17 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:48:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Spitfire 1500 prep In-Reply-To: <20071214.172914.3908.2.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <913189.86198.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bill: Get a copy of Kas's original competition prep manual for the 1500, or his newer Triumph prep manual sold by himself and Ted S. It is all clearly detailed within. As stated before...if it isn't number three it'll be number two; if it isn't now it'll be later :O( Thanks - Ed William G Rosenbach wrote: Greetings all, My neighbor bought my '76 Spitfire from me. It's the one which expired with the #3 rod hammering its bearings into a flaky, blue ring. He & his brother are bringing it back to life, and I'd like to get them some details on improving 1500 bottom end reliability. They are going pretty much stock/street, I do not think they will go for 'scrap it & get a 1296'. I didn't seem to be able to access anything on the FoT website. Thanks in advance. Merry Christmas, Bill Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tedtsimx at bright.net Sat Dec 15 09:21:57 2007 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:21:57 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel Message-ID: <4763FF25.3030008@bright.net> Greetings FOT list community. Here is a Christmas gift idea that also benefits FOT. A friend of mine, Sam Moses, wrote a book in 1986 called "Fast Guys, Rich Guys and Idiots". A chronicle of Sam's racing season. Sam was the motor sports editor for Sports Illustrated. Later on he became associate editor of AutoWeek. "Fast Guys" was sold out in 9 months and not reprinted. Sam has reprinted his book. The book sells for $21.95. But, Sam personalized a group of books for us. These are selling for $24.95 each. Postage approximately $4.75 by priority mail and should reach you in time for Christmas. $3 from each sale will go to the FOT coffers. Buy early, buy often. The following writeup sums up the book very well. I read the book in 1986 when it first came out and liked what I saw about Sam's competitive attitude. A phone call to Sam and 2 months later, he and I won a 24 hour showroom stock race. The write-up below is from the publisher. Thanks for your time. Ted Sam Moses, a motorsports writer for Sports Illustrated, was assigned to go racing and write about what happened. Fast Guys, Rich Guys, and Idiots is a personal odyssey that peers over the cliff of change and into the pit of obsession. From small-time races to glittery grands prix, it lays bare the greed, lust, and desperation of every driver for time behind the wheel and a faster car. It explains the perfectionism behind taking a turn at the limit and describes the intoxicating thrill of stealing down the Daytona backstraight at nearly two hundred miles an hour. The core of Mose's story takes place in the heartland of stock car racing, there he finds a spot on a team in Ether, North Carolina. The team's owner is a tough Louisiana oil man, its crew chief a lanky, laconic Texan, and its number-one driver a hairy-chested leadfoot who learned fast driving on backwoods Georgia roads, delivering beauty supplies in his Mustang. Crashes echo throughout the tale that follows, five of them the author's own. Sam Moses was a staff writer for Sports Illustrated for seventeen years on the motorsports beat. He worked as deputy editor at AutoWeek and received automotive journalisms prestigious Ken Purdy Award. He is the author of At All Costs: How a Crippled Ship and Two American Merchant Mariners Reversed the Tide of World War II. A candid, often hilarious account of [Mosess] experiences on the tracks, in the garages and in the gasoline alleys of the racing worldbut especially memorable is the wild variety of characters Moses met along the way. The book might have been written twenty years ago, but racing is still populated by fast guys, rich guys, and idiots.Brock Yates, Wall Street Journal -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 From tedtsimx at bright.net Sat Dec 15 09:26:06 2007 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:26:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FOT apparel Message-ID: <4764001E.9090807@bright.net> List members, the apparel item was dropped from,the previous email. After the first of the year, several apparel choices will be sent to the list. You will be able to view windshirts, polo's, button down denim or twill shirts and jackets. Sorry for dropped apparel content. Ted -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 From vintage.racer at comcast.net Sat Dec 15 09:54:07 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:54:07 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel In-Reply-To: <4763FF25.3030008@bright.net> References: <4763FF25.3030008@bright.net> Message-ID: <000001c83f3b$1c327bb0$54977310$@racer@comcast.net> Hi Ted: I'll take one. Check will go into today's mail (Saturday). Shipping address: Gary Horstkorta 263 South Sea Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thanks and Happy Holidays. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ted Schumacher Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 8:22 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel Greetings FOT list community. Here is a Christmas gift idea that also benefits FOT. A friend of mine, Sam Moses, wrote a book in 1986 called "Fast Guys, Rich Guys and Idiots". A chronicle of Sam's racing season. Sam was the motor sports editor for Sports Illustrated. Later on he became associate editor of AutoWeek. "Fast Guys" was sold out in 9 months and not reprinted. Sam has reprinted his book. The book sells for $21.95. But, Sam personalized a group of books for us. These are selling for $24.95 each. Postage approximately $4.75 by priority mail and should reach you in time for Christmas. $3 from each sale will go to the FOT coffers. Buy early, buy often. The following writeup sums up the book very well. I read the book in 1986 when it first came out and liked what I saw about Sam's competitive attitude. A phone call to Sam and 2 months later, he and I won a 24 hour showroom stock race. The write-up below is from the publisher. Thanks for your time. Ted Sam Moses, a motorsports writer for Sports Illustrated, was assigned to go racing and write about what happened. Fast Guys, Rich Guys, and Idiots is a personal odyssey that peers over the cliff of change and into the pit of obsession. From small-time races to glittery grands prix, it lays bare the greed, lust, and desperation of every driver for time behind the wheel and a faster car. It explains the perfectionism behind taking a turn at the limit and describes the intoxicating thrill of stealing down the Daytona backstraight at nearly two hundred miles an hour. The core of Mose's story takes place in the heartland of stock car racing, there he finds a spot on a team in Ether, North Carolina. The team's owner is a tough Louisiana oil man, its crew chief a lanky, laconic Texan, and its number-one driver a hairy-chested leadfoot who learned fast driving on backwoods Georgia roads, delivering beauty supplies in his Mustang. Crashes echo throughout the tale that follows, five of them the author's own. Sam Moses was a staff writer for Sports Illustrated for seventeen years on the motorsports beat. He worked as deputy editor at AutoWeek and received automotive journalisms prestigious Ken Purdy Award. He is the author of At All Costs: How a Crippled Ship and Two American Merchant Mariners Reversed the Tide of World War II. A candid, often hilarious account of [Mosess] experiences on the tracks, in the garages and in the gasoline alleys of the racing worldbut especially memorable is the wild variety of characters Moses met along the way. The book might have been written twenty years ago, but racing is still populated by fast guys, rich guys, and idiots.Brock Yates, Wall Street Journal -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 15 09:57:59 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:57:59 EST Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel Message-ID: Ted, I am always up for a book, especially on favorite subjects. Count in for one.. Joe Alexander 645 1st Street Jesup, Iowa 50648 Thanks for thinking about the FoT Coffers. Joe > Greetings FOT list community. Here is a Christmas gift idea that also > benefits FOT. A friend of mine, Sam Moses, wrote a book in 1986 called > "Fast Guys, Rich Guys and Idiots". A chronicle of Sam's racing season. > Sam was the motor sports editor for Sports Illustrated. Later on he > became associate editor of AutoWeek. "Fast Guys" was sold out in 9 > months and not reprinted. Sam has reprinted his book. The book sells for > $21.95. But, Sam personalized a group of books for us. These are selling > for $24.95 each. Postage approximately $4.75 by priority mail and should > reach you in time for Christmas. $3 from each sale will go to the FOT > coffers. Buy early, buy often. The following writeup sums up the book > very well. I read the book in 1986 when it first came out and liked what > I saw about Sam's competitive attitude. A phone call to Sam and 2 months > later, he and I won a 24 hour showroom stock race. The write-up below is > from the publisher. Thanks for your time. Ted > > Sam Moses, a motorsports writer for Sports Illustrated, was assigned to > go racing and write about what happened. Fast Guys, Rich Guys, and > Idiots is a personal odyssey that peers over the cliff of change and > into the pit of obsession. From small-time races to glittery grands > prix, it lays bare the greed, lust, and desperation of every driver for > time behind the wheel and a faster car. It explains the perfectionism > behind taking a turn at the limit and describes the intoxicating thrill > of stealing down the Daytona backstraight at nearly two hundred miles an > hour. > > The core of Mose's story takes place in the heartland of stock car > racing, there he finds a spot on a team in Ether, North Carolina. The > team's owner is a tough Louisiana oil man, its crew chief a lanky, > laconic Texan, and its number-one driver a hairy-chested leadfoot who > learned fast driving on backwoods Georgia roads, delivering beauty > supplies in his Mustang. Crashes echo throughout the tale that follows, > five of them the author's own. > > Sam Moses was a staff writer for Sports Illustrated for seventeen years > on the motorsports beat. He worked as deputy editor at AutoWeek and > received automotive journalisms prestigious Ken Purdy Award. He is the > author of At All Costs: How a Crippled Ship and Two American Merchant > Mariners Reversed the Tide of World War II. > > A candid, often hilarious account of [Mosess] experiences on the > tracks, in the garages and in the gasoline alleys of the racing > worldbut especially memorable is the wild variety of characters Moses > met along the way. The book might have been written twenty years ago, > but racing is still populated by fast guys, rich guys, and > idiots.Brock Yates, Wall Street Journal > > > -- > Ted Schumacher > tedtsimx at bright.net > http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com > 108 S. Jefferson St. > Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 > Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) > Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) > Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 15 10:08:42 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:08:42 EST Subject: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen Message-ID: Thanks are overdue to Ted Schumacher and Marty Sukey for coordinating FoT shirt sales, this year. I received a very nice check for $300 that went into the FOT Account. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------- Again, Ted, Marty, et. al. are coordinating shirts for the Watkins Glen FoT event. Like anything else, these things dont get done without this kind of involvement. Ted & Doris will also be vending at the Glen for about the 16th time. Almost as many times as Bill Dentinger has entered this event. This is going to be a huge Event for Triumphs. There are a lot of folks with Triumphs that are planning to come...as entrants or spectators. I know that the spectator population is going to be very largely affected by our presence. This is really Triumph Country. Joe A From mark at bradakis.com Sat Dec 15 10:11:58 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:11:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel In-Reply-To: <4763FF25.3030008@bright.net> References: <4763FF25.3030008@bright.net> Message-ID: <47640ADE.70603@bradakis.com> Gee, just moments ago my wife was asking me for some further ideas on what to get me for Christmas - what timing! And thanks to those who who recently contributed to Team.Net, I do appreciate it. I manage about 80 lists in around half a dozen different domains, and this one is my favorite. mjb. From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sat Dec 15 10:10:13 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:10:13 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question Message-ID: <001201c83f3d$5bca7910$0301000a@Chowdown> Which gooey product would you reccommend for freeze plug installation? Also, do you guys drill and safety wire the 2 engine block bolts that protrude into the cam bearing holes? ~Steve From BillB at bnj.com Sat Dec 15 10:10:59 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:10:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question References: <001201c83f3d$5bca7910$0301000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: JB Weld. and Yup. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Steve Belfer Sent: Sat 12/15/2007 9:10 AM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question Which gooey product would you reccommend for freeze plug installation? Also, do you guys drill and safety wire the 2 engine block bolts that protrude into the cam bearing holes? ~Steve Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sat Dec 15 10:15:45 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:15:45 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question References: <001201c83f3d$5bca7910$0301000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <002c01c83f3e$213f06c0$0301000a@Chowdown> thanks guys. ~SB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 9:10 AM Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question > Which gooey product would you reccommend for freeze plug installation? > > Also, do you guys drill and safety wire the 2 engine block bolts that > protrude > into the cam bearing holes? > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From REK46 at aol.com Sat Dec 15 10:18:10 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:18:10 EST Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question Message-ID: I've used Loctite " RC/609"...Cylindrical retaining compound for 35yrs an never had one fail...its in a red squeeze bottle like the Loctite threadlocker....easy and works if you press it in right ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 15 10:26:41 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:26:41 EST Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel Message-ID: That reminds me...I have some money for you, from the FOT. I promised Brad & Susan I would do this and have never followed through. Procrastination. My bad. I can send check.....what is your address? Joe Alexander > Gee, just moments ago my wife was asking me for some further > ideas on what to get me for Christmas - what timing! > > And thanks to those who who recently contributed to Team.Net, > I do appreciate it. I manage about 80 lists in around half a dozen > different domains, and this one is my favorite. > > mjb. > From trmarty at hotmail.com Sat Dec 15 13:37:05 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 15:37:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Joe, I was part of last couple of orders but it is actually Scott Janzen who has stepped up to the plate for the Glen shirts. I will help out as needed but it is Scott who should get the credit for the Glen shirts. Marty Sukey > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:08:42 -0500 > To: tedtsimx at bright.net; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen > > Thanks are overdue to Ted Schumacher and Marty Sukey for coordinating FoT > shirt sales, this year. I received a very nice check for $300 that went into the > FOT Account. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > --------------------------------------- > Again, Ted, Marty, et. al. are coordinating shirts for the Watkins Glen FoT > event. Like anything else, these things dont get done without this kind of > involvement. > > Ted & Doris will also be vending at the Glen for about the 16th time. Almost > as many times as Bill Dentinger has entered this event. > > This is going to be a huge Event for Triumphs. There are a lot of folks with > Triumphs that are planning to come...as entrants or spectators. I know that > the spectator population is going to be very largely affected by our presence. > This is really Triumph Country. > > Joe A > _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ From hottr6 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 15 13:47:51 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 15:47:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: Charly, FWIW, my Carillo rods with JE pistons (and bolts, wrist pins, rings) save a total of around 270g rotating mass per pot over lightened stock components, or a massive 375g/pot over stock components. In a TR6, that is 2.25kg off the rotating mass. I was advised AGAINST using Cosworth pistons, as they have a very short skirts. While maybe fine for a woman with long rods, this is an issue in my streetable car, but not as critical for a dedicated racer. Shane Ingate, relaxing after drywall work, in NM 2.25kg or nearly 5lbs off the rotating mass.> I've looked in to getting Venolia pistons at about > $100 a piece and I've been thinking along the lines of using the stock rods. > I have the whole selection of Kas' books and plan to do the lightening as he > recommends. Where do I find info on the Cosworth pistons? _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ From WEmery7451 at aol.com Sat Dec 15 17:14:41 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 19:14:41 EST Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: In a message dated 12/15/07 12:48:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, hottr6 at hotmail.com writes: << I was advised AGAINST using Cosworth pistons, as they have a very short sk irts. While maybe fine for a woman with long rods, this is an issue in my str eetable car, but not as critical for a dedicated racer.>> Jack Wheeler developed the Cosworth popup pistons and had Webber in Virginia make them. I assume that these were the pistons that were in his winning Runoff engine. I bought four of them many years ago, and am still using them today. I believe that Weber passed away, and his business was shut down. If I ruin one of these pistons, I probably wouldn't be able to replace it. You wouldn't save any rotating mass. These pistons are heavier than the Hepalite flat top pistons. ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From WEmery7451 at aol.com Sat Dec 15 17:24:06 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 19:24:06 EST Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild (Addendum) Message-ID: These pistons were for the four banger tractor engines. ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From S.Janzen at comcast.net Sat Dec 15 22:47:09 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:47:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen References: Message-ID: <004101c83fa7$1a549be0$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Once the Glen shirts are complete and sold all that are involved can take credit. For now, thank you's are certainly due to those that put together shirts in 2007 and that resulted in funds going into this year's coffers - not me. Blame me in 2008 if the shirts are a dud! Scott Janzen ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" To: ; ; Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen > Thanks Joe, I was part of last couple of orders but it is actually Scott > Janzen who has stepped up to the plate for the Glen shirts. I will help > out as > needed but it is Scott who should get the credit for the Glen shirts. > > Marty Sukey > > > >> From: N197TR4 at cs.com >> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:08:42 -0500 >> To: tedtsimx at bright.net; fot at autox.team.net >> Subject: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen >> >> Thanks are overdue to Ted Schumacher and Marty Sukey for coordinating FoT >> shirt sales, this year. I received a very nice check for $300 that went > into the >> FOT Account. >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - >> --------------------------------------- >> Again, Ted, Marty, et. al. are coordinating shirts for the Watkins Glen >> FoT >> event. Like anything else, these things dont get done without this kind >> of >> involvement. >> >> Ted & Doris will also be vending at the Glen for about the 16th time. > Almost >> as many times as Bill Dentinger has entered this event. >> >> This is going to be a huge Event for Triumphs. There are a lot of folks >> with >> Triumphs that are planning to come...as entrants or spectators. I know >> that >> the spectator population is going to be very largely affected by our > presence. >> This is really Triumph Country. >> >> Joe A >> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox > 360 > Console. > http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sun Dec 16 08:26:51 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 07:26:51 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR3 Cam Core plug install Message-ID: <000601c83ff8$157a6040$0301000a@Chowdown> Just got a new dish-shaped cam core plug from Moss for my fresh engine rebuild. What's the step by step technique to putting one of these in? It can't be very tough but I've never been tought the technique. Here's my common-sense guess for how to do it. 1, of course, make sure the hole is clean and the surface is smooth. 2, rough up a little for the epoxy to grab 3, apply JB weld to the inside of the hole (don't get it on the cam bearings) 4. Gently tap the dish shaped plug (dish outwards) with a big socket into the hole. How far? until it settles up against the ledge? 5. hold a wooden handle as a drift on the center of the dish 6. give it a good whack to expand the plug in place 7. JB weld the edges. Whaddya think gang? From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 16 09:56:24 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:56:24 EST Subject: [Fot] Ted's Shirts at The Glen - Hampton Inn Message-ID: S.Janzen at comcast.net writes: > Once the Glen shirts are complete and sold all that are involved can take > credit. For now, thank you's are certainly due to those that put together > shirts in 2007 and that resulted in funds going into this year's coffers - > not me. Blame me in 2008 if the shirts are a dud! > Scott Janzen > FoT, Make no mistake. This is likely to the most important FoT Event we have had. The Brits at Mid-Ohio is hard to surpass, but overall I think this will be the new benchmark. A good shirt will let it live on with us. I expect the whole scene to be extremely special. It wont all be about racing, but everyone will appreciate being there. I got a call from Philadelphia; Dave S says in 2008 he expects 10 Triumphs to be be coming. These are VTR Guys. Expect a strong presence from the TRA group as well. Expect to get a lot of attention in the Paddock and Triumph Central (FoT Hospitality) Get your reservations in a the Hampton Inn, if you have not already. It looks like we may be filling this hotel up. If you need help let me know. (I am helping out the Brits that are coming, and one other far flung guy from Hawaii) Andrea Stowe is the manager and is our contact. If you are having difficulties with your reservations, ask for her, or let me know. Yes, this Hampton Inn is a bit off the track, but there is a great back road to The Glen, if you know where it is. Joe Alexander From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 16 10:13:23 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:13:23 EST Subject: [Fot] GARY FUQUA NOMINATION TO FOT Message-ID: FoT, This morning I received an email from Branson, Mo.'s Gary Fuqua. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Joe, Well, it is done. I have the TR 4!! We arrived about 4 or so and Gary fired her up. She sounded great so we shut her down and put her in my trailer.......... We are spending the night in Des Moines and will get back to Branson tomorrow afternoon around 4 or so. Cheers my friend, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO GSFuqua1 at aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- Gary Fuqua just purchased Gary Wiezorek's TR4, and will be racing with us in 2008. Wiezorek has not raced the car for five years, the last event being Mid-America Motorplex near Council Bluffs. We will miss 'GWIZ Racing', but Gary Fuqua will be a pleasant and worthy successor to Wiezorek in this pristine TR4. Therefore, I nominate Gary Fuqua to the FOT and invite him to introduce himself, when his name/address is tendered to the list. Joe Alexander From gwizracing at cfu.net Sun Dec 16 10:24:59 2007 From: gwizracing at cfu.net (Gary Wiezorek) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:24:59 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Second to Nomination Message-ID: <47655F6B.9050206@cfu.net> I second the nomination of Gary Fuqua to the FOT. It was very hard to part with TR4 #96 but Gary will take good care of it and drive it proudly. Gary Wiezorek From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Wed Dec 12 15:06:54 2007 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Terry & Cindy) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:06:54 +1000 Subject: [Fot] heat treatment advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071212220707.MQQO11935.oaamta06sl.mx.bigpond.com@Terry> I recall there was a lengthy posting some time ago about various heat treatments, especially as applied to crankshafts. Does anyone have a copy??> I'm particularly chasing real-world information on the tuftriding process Thanks, Terry From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Sun Dec 16 13:06:37 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 13:06:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Cosworth pistons Message-ID: <4765854D.2080206@cyberspeedway.net> All, After Shane's comment I thought I would measure the piston length as I had never noticed the Cosworths as being overly short. The stock piston is 2.440" and the Cosworth is 2.230". The Cosworth is a full skirt design which is not much used today in racing engines. A modern Cup motor or Pro Stock motor use pistons which have skirts the size of a postage stamp. There is just enough material under the head to hold the rings and a short pin to make them extremely light. These modern pistons are CNC'd under the top to match whatever popup is on the top side further contributing to lightness. The Cosworths are an older design and I suspect a modern Ross or the like could be a little lighter. The new set I have left is 1977 vintage left over from PLN's team. Cosworth has probably updated by now but they are awfully expensive. They were $1,800 a set in 1992 the last time I checked which leaves room for about 3 sets from most other manufacturers. Greg Lund From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 16 22:23:47 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:23:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [DCTRA] I've heard of unrealistic prices on eBay, but this is ridiculous... Message-ID: <20071217052806.FFJG24689.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Guffaw! >Unless you think $29,500 is a decent price for a TR7 coupe... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1979-TRIUMPH-TR-7-NICEST-RESTORED-TR-7-IN-THE-WORLD_W0QQitemZ260188936438QQihZ016QQcategoryZ6469QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > >I would also expect "the nicest restored TR7 in the world" to not >have a rusted out exhaust system... plus the correct hood with the >double bump would be nice. > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Zane Horton From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Dec 17 08:08:40 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:08:40 EST Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... Message-ID: Amici... Geezz...I thought only us Yankees were known for boorish behavior. Our cousins set some records in VEGAS the weekend before last. Rumor has it 20-25,000 BRITS made the considerable trip from the UK for the Mayweather-Hatton boxing match. They brought their own bands with them and everything. The fight was held at the MGM GRAND, who went through 4,000 cases of beer on Saturday night (normally the BIGGEST night sees but 500 cases consumed). Several local bars were 'closed' because of unruly behavior by the BRITS (a VEGAS first). Later, newspaper headlines suggested such boorish behavior will not be missed in this 'wide-open' city. I watched a replay of the fight on HBO over the weekend. It was a good fight. Hatton is one tough kid, but Mayweather is a more skilled boxer, and in fact knocked Hatton out in the 10th. Bill (Damdinger) http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From Labs0808 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 08:19:58 2007 From: Labs0808 at aol.com (Labs0808 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:19:58 EST Subject: [Fot] Re Ambro 001 Message-ID: To any and all who would or could care I now decided to sell my car. I have owned the Ambro for 15 years the longest hold for me of any car. The has been exception thru time dicounting that it is a TR3 in wolves clothing. Something else has caught my eye so it is time, most of you know the car but if you have any question Regarding please drop me a note or call 612 759 6355. Ahh yes the price from what I have been hearing the small motor specials have been selling in 50 60 range a bargin for the history and style of this car. Hey this can be driving in any event anywhere in the world it is 001 no question asked. Comes with spares, log books, and drop clothes for the oil leakes. Anybody that wishes to jump in on the car please do I would like to see it stay in the US but heck the way the dollar is today this this would be a steal of shore. Thanks Doug Karon 612 759 6355 **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Mon Dec 17 08:42:41 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:42:41 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BC16942@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> We need to do something about the exchange rate. First our parts go up in price and now this. When will it end? Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 9:09 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... Amici... Geezz...I thought only us Yankees were known for boorish behavior. Our cousins set some records in VEGAS the weekend before last. Rumor has it 20-25,000 BRITS made the considerable trip from the UK for the Mayweather-Hatton boxing match. They brought their own bands with them and everything. The fight was held at the MGM GRAND, who went through 4,000 cases of beer on Saturday night (normally the BIGGEST night sees but 500 cases consumed). Several local bars were 'closed' because of unruly behavior by the BRITS (a VEGAS first). Later, newspaper headlines suggested such boorish behavior will not be missed in this 'wide-open' city. I watched a replay of the fight on HBO over the weekend. It was a good fight. Hatton is one tough kid, but Mayweather is a more skilled boxer, and in fact knocked Hatton out in the 10th. Bill (Damdinger) http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 17 08:49:14 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:49:14 EST Subject: [Fot] Re Ambro 001 Message-ID: Doug, Best wishes on your sale of the AMBRO...truly a very significant Triumph, in my mind. Regardless, I hope it finds it's way to The Glen, as it appears the Peyote will be there, and also the last AMBRO built by Bill Ames. Perhaps one other Ambro....... > To any and all who would or could care I now decided to sell my car. > I have owned the Ambro for 15 years the longest hold for me of any car. > The has been exception thru time dicounting that it is a TR3 in wolves > clothing. > Something else has caught my eye so it is time, most of you know the car > but if you have any question > Regarding please drop me a note or call 612 759 6355. > Ahh yes the price from what I have been hearing the small motor specials > have been selling in 50 60 range > a bargin for the history and style of this car. > Hey this can be driving in any event anywhere in the world it is 001 no > question asked. > Comes with spares, log books, and drop clothes for the oil leakes. > > Anybody that wishes to jump in on the car please do I would like to see > it > stay in the US but heck the way the dollar is today this this would be a > steal of shore. > Thanks > Doug Karon > 612 759 6355 > From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 17 11:06:05 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:06:05 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [DCTRA] I've heard of unrealistic prices on eBay, but this is ridiculous... References: <20071217052806.FFJG24689.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: It would be impossible to restore one to even very good condition for much less, though that's usually the seller's problem, not the buyer's. eBay is not always rational, you can sell something useful and valuable there and not get much, or something happens to hit the right folks who really want that thing and it goes for silly money. For example, I recently sold three motorcycle models on eBay. I bought them about ten years ago, and they were expensive l then ($150 each), because they were cast kits that required a lot of time and expertise to build. For example, the cylinders were built by stacking fin disks. The wheels looked nearly impossible to build to me. I never touched them other than looking at the minimal directions and the primitive parts. If I put them in a garage sale I'd be lucky to find a buyer for ten bucks. On eBay they fetched about $500 each. People who knew what they were bid against each other. The guy that got two of them was ecstatic about the two he got and devastated that he got outbid at the last second for the third. He said he would have paid whatever it took. He sent me wooden boxes with foam pads to ship the models in. It would have been completely impossible without a lot of advertising to reach that guy. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of David W. Riddle Sent: Sun 12/16/2007 9:23 PM To: fot at autox.team.net; dan at thecarringtons.net Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [DCTRA] I've heard of unrealistic prices on eBay, but this is ridiculous... Guffaw! >Unless you think $29,500 is a decent price for a TR7 coupe... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1979-TRIUMPH-TR-7-NICEST-RESTORED-TR-7-IN-THE -WORLD_W0QQitemZ260188936438QQihZ016QQcategoryZ6469QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem > >I would also expect "the nicest restored TR7 in the world" to not >have a rusted out exhaust system... plus the correct hood with the >double bump would be nice. > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Zane Horton Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 17 11:07:13 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:07:13 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... References: Message-ID: Gee, who'd have ever thought that refined folks like boxing fans might misbehave once they got to Vegas. The city that advertises "what happens in Vegas..." -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: Mon 12/17/2007 7:08 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... Amici... Geezz...I thought only us Yankees were known for boorish behavior. Our cousins set some records in VEGAS the weekend before last. Rumor has it 20-25,000 BRITS made the considerable trip from the UK for the Mayweather-Hatton boxing match. They brought their own bands with them and everything. The fight was held at the MGM GRAND, who went through 4,000 cases of beer on Saturday night (normally the BIGGEST night sees but 500 cases consumed). Several local bars were 'closed' because of unruly behavior by the BRITS (a VEGAS first). Later, newspaper headlines suggested such boorish behavior will not be missed in this 'wide-open' city. I watched a replay of the fight on HBO over the weekend. It was a good fight. Hatton is one tough kid, but Mayweather is a more skilled boxer, and in fact knocked Hatton out in the 10th. Bill (Damdinger) http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 11:39:45 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:39:45 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Dec 17 11:55:01 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:55:01 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed References: Message-ID: <003001c840de$54994f70$1b02a8c0@workstation3> I would suggest getting a Triumph first of all, hopefully one that has already been race prepped. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:39 AM Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed > I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. > i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or > recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. > > Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Mon Dec 17 11:59:46 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:59:46 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed References: Message-ID: <003b01c840de$fde74a50$0200a8c0@Desktop> I would go rent a racer to see if you like first............if you do 1 Triumph 2 Suite, etc. Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 1:39 PM Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed >I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. > i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or > recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. > > Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Dec 17 12:06:41 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:06:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed In-Reply-To: <003b01c840de$fde74a50$0200a8c0@Desktop> References: <003b01c840de$fde74a50$0200a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Dec 2007, Craig wrote: > I would go rent a racer to see if you like first............if you do > 1 Triumph > 2 Suite, etc. > Craig We do know that Gary _HAS_ a TR4 now... right? So he's got that step out of the way. Or is the server not serving up the smiley faces on the replies. In either case, welcome Gary! rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 17 12:21:30 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:21:30 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed References: Message-ID: I don't know what's available around Branson, it might be worthwhile for you to take a trip to VIR, they have a well equipped race shop there. Of course you want to call first and make sure they'll be open. I really like the Vintage look race suits from Stand 21--they have the Dunlop blue ones that look great with our period cars. I don't have one yet, but that's what I'll buy for my next race suit. If you race in hot weather you might want to consider one of the new (but expensive) ventilated suits, or go with a standard three layers suit and spring for a cool suit. Either the type that pump cold water through a t shirt or the new ones with exothermic crystals that you stick in a freezer. For gloves, you want snug, but not as tight as classic driving gloves, with long forearms to keep your skin covered even if your suit arms get pulled up a bit by the belt. Shoes--I don't like the new "sneaker" style driving shoes, I like the boot type with soles as thin as ballet shoes. Simpsons are fine. You need a fireproof balaclava under your helmet, socks, and arm restraints that connect to your seat belt. The arm restraints can be built into your suit or you can get the loop type that slides on your arms. Make sure you helmet is current--that you have acceptable snell approval. Motorcycle helmets are not acceptable. You also need to be a little concerned about wind lift in your open car (I know you have a TR4--congrats) so you can either get a stick on whickerbill for the helmet, or buy a helmet that is aerodynamically suitable. Shoei's have a narrow wind entry and not much lift, though I still use a bill on mine. For jugs, the most durable are the heavy square poly jugs. Get a filler hose that will fit your tank. You probably want at least two, maybe three. You also need to carry water for the car. You also need all the usual spares--oil, brake fluid, battery charger, spare disk pads, etc. Most of this you'll figure out as you go. If your first race is at a big event there will be vendors for race stuff at the event. You need to take a couple of classes. Perhaps your local organizing body has some--these are usually the cheapest and sometimes the best way to get track time and experience. Take all you can manage before you race. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sent: Mon 12/17/2007 10:39 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Mon Dec 17 13:22:57 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:22:57 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BC17032@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Gary, Congratulations on the TR4. I hope you can make it down to CVAR events. We hold one each spring and fall at Hallett and you a a lot closer to theat track than I am. As a matter of fact you are a bit closer to the new track at Eagles Canyon then I am to Hallett. We have a school and race weekend in February at TWS in College Station. Marquest says that will be a little over 600 miles but where else in the middle of the country can you race in February? As for your questions I buy most of my stuff online from places like Racer Wholesale, Speedway Motors and Capital Motorsports. You can even find a lot of it with Jegs and Summit Racing. Look up Pegusus, Aircraft Spruce and Supply, McMaster-Carr and Truechoice for the hard to find stuff. You can get pretty good deals if you figure out what you need and are willing to hunt it down. Hunting the stuff down becomes part of the fun of it. Eventually you become an expert on the best place to buy anything you need. If you want the top end stuff I think it is pricey where ever you buy it, but the generic stuff can be bought at commodity prices. You may want to get the required safety gear for the first race and gradually add stuff like fuel jugs as you go. A lot of tracks are moving to self service fuel pumps so that is getting easier. Hope to see you on track soon. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:40 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitfiresuz at 141.com Mon Dec 17 13:33:42 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:33:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: <380-2200712117203342503@M2W035.mail2web.com> Hi Gary, and welcome to the vintage racing world! To follow the great suggestions from Bill and Bob, I would like to add a few other essentials: A good tire pressure gauge Proper load-rated straps/tire bonnets for towing A good torque wrench for wheel tightening (and other work) A portable compressor and/or air tank for adjusting tire pressures A way to tell how much gas is in your fuel cell (we use a wooden yardstick) A trouble light (there are some good fluorescent rechargeables now) Good luck, and I hope we will get to see you on the track next year! Susan :) #42 FP Spitfire "Tristan" Original Message: ----------------- From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:39:45 EST To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft. Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Dec 17 14:49:59 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:49:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed References: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BC17032@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Message-ID: <005401c840f6$c5966740$1b02a8c0@workstation3> Robert, now knowing you have the Triumph racecar, I would suggest talking to other racers in your area and finding out what they are doing for equipment. I have never bought any race items such as safety equipment over the internet. I always try to do business with a local supplier. I buy from a local company called Armadillo Racing and I have never checked his prices. The reason is he shows up to at least 50% of the local races with his trailer and gear. Last race of this season my gloves failed tech inspection and I was able to buy a pair from him at the race track. If we don't support these guys that support us at the track because we're trying to save a few bucks, they will go away. I've taken most of my racing equipment from my garage to use at the race track and didn't see the need to run out and buy all new race stuff as jacks, etc. I would take the advice of one of the others and see if you like before you jump into it with both feet. A friend of mine thought he'd like vintage racing, (he's a pilot as was his dad) and he found he was not very fond of it and felt he was in the way of everyone, sold his car and hasn't been back since. He bought a car, trailer, truck, camper, jacks, gas cans, tools, racing suit, gloves helmet, shoes and all the rest of it. I started out autocrossing with the Jaguar club and loved it but wanted more. I found this was probably the easiest(and cheapest) way to go racing, if you want to call it racing. I took several racing classes before every getting into a vintage race car. This also was very helpful in getting me interested. What is Classic Sports Cars? Good luck on getting started Charly Mitchel > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of GSFuqua1 at aol.com > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:40 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed > > I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. > > i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or > recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. > > Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From stutzmans at comcast.net Mon Dec 17 19:04:42 2007 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:04:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... References: Message-ID: <002301c8411a$5b2a8ed0$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> sounds like the Brits had a good time in Vegas Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:08 AM Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... > Amici... > > Geezz...I thought only us Yankees were known for boorish behavior. > > Our cousins set some records in VEGAS the weekend before last. Rumor has > it > 20-25,000 BRITS made the considerable trip from the UK for the > Mayweather-Hatton boxing match. They brought their own bands with them > and everything. The > fight was held at the MGM GRAND, who went through 4,000 cases of beer on > Saturday night (normally the BIGGEST night sees but 500 cases consumed). > Several > local bars were 'closed' because of unruly behavior by the BRITS (a VEGAS > first). Later, newspaper headlines suggested such boorish behavior will > not be > missed in this 'wide-open' city. > > I watched a replay of the fight on HBO over the weekend. It was a good > fight. Hatton is one tough kid, but Mayweather is a more skilled boxer, > and in > fact knocked Hatton out in the 10th. > > Bill (Damdinger) > > > > > > http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm > > > ************************************** > > See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Dec 17 19:33:36 2007 From: Lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:33:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15E96AC4-F391-42B5-8D1A-F6102BD6F485@earthlink.net> Gary, Don't forget the Visa, Mastercard, travelers checks, the occasional bank letter of credit and CASH!!! [lots and lots of that]. With those 5 items, the rest will work it's way out and you will have smooth sailing. Welcome, best wishes and have fun! Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Dec 17, 2007, at 11:39 AM, GSFuqua1 at aol.com wrote: > I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing > Scene. > i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or > recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. > > Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From SMITH1127 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 19:37:47 2007 From: SMITH1127 at aol.com (SMITH1127 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:37:47 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! Message-ID: Aloha, Charly. Thanks for all of the great advice. Our track here on the Big Island is quite small, and the SCCA events are not exactly what I would call wheel to wheel racing, but rather driver skills exercises. We simply do not have a decent track in Hawaii, so we make do with what we've got. Maybe some day..... I've also got a small collection of British sports cars--this has been a passion of mine for 40 years. These are all drivers, and I do drive them all. I have also had some of them on the track, but bought Bob Coan's Spitfire as a car that I could dedicate to the track. It may be more car than our little track calls for (I doubt that I will ever use the overdrive), but it should be lots of fun and the guys and gals that do race here will like to see another real racecar at our events. Most folks show up in their everyday drivers, although we do have a Lotus 7 and some other unusual vehicles for being in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Thanks again for your note. I've attached a few pictures from our car barn. Much aloha. Robert **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010490.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010511.JPG] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010396.JPG] From brad.kahler at 141.com Mon Dec 17 20:48:35 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:48:35 -0600 Subject: [Fot] For the racer who has every tool made Message-ID: <47674313.1000705@141.com> This just got posted to the Shop-Talk list and I thought it might be appropriate for the FOT members who need to have every tool made. http://sheldonbrown.com/tork-grip.html Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Dec 17 21:00:36 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:00:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed References: <15E96AC4-F391-42B5-8D1A-F6102BD6F485@earthlink.net> Message-ID: So Gary, how much is in your wallet??? ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer To: GSFuqua1 at aol.com ; FOT Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Gary, Don't forget the Visa, Mastercard, travelers checks, the occasional bank letter of credit and CASH!!! [lots and lots of that]. With those 5 items, the rest will work it's way out and you will have smooth sailing. Welcome, best wishes and have fun! Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Dec 17, 2007, at 11:39 AM, GSFuqua1 at aol.com wrote: > I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing > Scene. > i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or > recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. > > Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 21:02:39 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:02:39 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: Thank you Charly. That has already been done. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 21:08:53 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:08:53 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: Thank you Bob. I may be starting out in Vintage Racing but I'm not exactly stupid. Just looking for some recommendations. I actually have TWO fully prepared Vintage Racers. Both are excellent cars and I expect to have some fun, NOT try to be the next Sterling Moss. Ha ha Cheers, Gary **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 21:27:53 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:27:53 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: Thanks. All very useful and appreciated. I perhaps should have given a little more information in my request. For the past 5+ years (After retirement) I have owned and operated Classic Sports Cars in Branson, Missouri. I have a full blown operation with virtually all tools, etc. I have restored several Triumphs (TR 3's, TR 4's, TR 250, TR 6's, TR 7's & 8's as well as a couple of mid year Corvettes, a couple of Porsche's, MG's and several Austin-Healeys. I have won Gold Level Concours at National Austin-Healey events as well as 395 of 400 on several of the Triumphs including Best of Show, etc., etc. I have run quite a few Auto Crosses and while fun they are just not exactly what I really enjoy. I have also attended several vintage races and have taken a fair amount of class room training for Vintage Racing and have signed up for the CVAR School in February at TWS. Hope this helps explain my interest and perhaps the lack of initial information in my request. Cheers, Gary **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 21:36:02 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:36:02 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: Good one!! Probably not enough but sufficient at the moment. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Mon Dec 17 23:06:22 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:06:22 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c8413c$1d827030$b1191718@computer> Hi Robert, I live in Sacramento, California and recently bought a '74 TR6 that had only a few years before come from Oahu. I bought it from John Shrum's son. Apparently John was retired Navy and had a British car shop on Oahu and did some SCCA Club Racing in the 80s and 90s. I am autocrossing this TR6 now and plan to do some road racing even though vintage racing in Northern California is not too friendly to TR6s. Jim Two '74 TR6s -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of SMITH1127 at aol.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 6:38 PM To: charly at mitchelplumbing.com; RKramer at rdoequipment.com; GSFuqua1 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! Aloha, Charly. Thanks for all of the great advice. Our track here on the Big Island is quite small, and the SCCA events are not exactly what I would call wheel to wheel racing, but rather driver skills exercises. We simply do not have a decent track in Hawaii, so we make do with what we've got. Maybe some day..... I've also got a small collection of British sports cars--this has been a passion of mine for 40 years. These are all drivers, and I do drive them all. I have also had some of them on the track, but bought Bob Coan's Spitfire as a car that I could dedicate to the track. It may be more car than our little track calls for (I doubt that I will ever use the overdrive), but it should be lots of fun and the guys and gals that do race here will like to see another real racecar at our events. Most folks show up in their everyday drivers, although we do have a Lotus 7 and some other unusual vehicles for being in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Thanks again for your note. I've attached a few pictures from our car barn. Much aloha. Robert **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010490.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010511.JPG] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010396.JPG] Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Tue Dec 18 08:38:21 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 07:38:21 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! References: <000001c8413c$1d827030$b1191718@computer> Message-ID: Hi Jim...SCCA is hosting 2 vintage events this year..one at Laguna Seca april 12-13, and one at Infineon on Sept 20 & 21..I'm quite sure your TR6 will be welcome, as there are 240Zs , datsun 510s, and other cars of your car's era . Take your car through the SCCA driver's school Feb 29- March 2... or...Go to the CSRG Driver's clinic in February(generally speaking your car does not have to be CSRG accepted to take the clinic, and you will get your CSRG license(medical card) Either of these venues will get you a vintage racing license for SCCA contact Bill godwin at 925 200 7722 or ponyperf at comcast.net for CSRG go to www.csrgracing.org or call Dan Radowicz at 925 736 2823 ...also..HSR west will probably accept your car. HSR West has 1 race a year at Thunderhill 310 530 9731 Ed Swart..So there you have 3 Northern California Races that your car will probably qualify for in 2008. Have fun, Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: ; ; ; ; Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! > Hi Robert, > > I live in Sacramento, California and recently bought a '74 TR6 that had > only a few years before come from Oahu. I bought it from John Shrum's > son. Apparently John was retired Navy and had a British car shop on > Oahu and did some SCCA Club Racing in the 80s and 90s. I am > autocrossing this TR6 now and plan to do some road racing even though > vintage racing in Northern California is not too friendly to TR6s. > > Jim > Two '74 TR6s > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > SMITH1127 at aol.com > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 6:38 PM > To: charly at mitchelplumbing.com; RKramer at rdoequipment.com; > GSFuqua1 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! > > Aloha, Charly. Thanks for all of the great advice. Our track here on the > Big > Island is quite small, and the SCCA events are not exactly what I would > call > wheel to wheel racing, but rather driver skills exercises. We simply do > not > have a decent track in Hawaii, so we make do with what we've got. Maybe > some > day..... > > I've also got a small collection of British sports cars--this has been a > > passion of mine for 40 years. These are all drivers, and I do drive them > all. I > have also had some of them on the track, but bought Bob Coan's Spitfire > as a > car that I could dedicate to the track. It may be more car than our > little > track calls for (I doubt that I will ever use the overdrive), but it > should be > lots of fun and the guys and gals that do race here will like to see > another > real racecar at our events. Most folks show up in their everyday > drivers, > although we do have a Lotus 7 and some other unusual vehicles for being > in the > middle of the Pacific Ocean. > > Thanks again for your note. I've attached a few pictures from our car > barn. > Much aloha. Robert > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name > of P1010490.jpg] > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name > of P1010511.JPG] > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name > of P1010396.JPG] > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 18 08:49:16 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:49:16 EST Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn-Painted Post Message-ID: FoT, I got a call from FoT Wensley this morning. he managed to book the LAST ROOM at the Hampton Inn. (of course there will always be cancellations) Andrea, the manager of the Hampton Inn, is going to get back to me on Wed or Thur. They are opening a new property nearby. I will be talking to her about additional rooms as it appears they will be needed. JOE ALEXANDER From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 18 08:52:48 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:52:48 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: Gary, Introducing yourself was a good idea. See how helpful this dynamic group is. I know you have plans earlier in the year for racing in Texas, but I hope that you can plan for Watkins Glen. If you do, there are a couple of things we need to discuss, regarding your application for entry. Joe A From mark at bradakis.com Tue Dec 18 09:50:40 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:50:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn-Painted Post In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4767FA60.4000606@bradakis.com> Snooze you lose. I was planning on reserving a room there, and was going to call in a couple of days after I decide for sure whether or not I'll be attending. I should just call and at least get on a waiting list or something. mjb. From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 18 10:17:54 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:17:54 EST Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn-Painted Post Message-ID: Mark, I will be talking to Andrea on Wednesday or Thursday about alternatives. They are opening a new property a short distance away. I might be able to lock into another deal, now that we have filled up one hotel. :-) Joe Alexander > Snooze you lose. I was planning on reserving a room there, > and was going to call in a couple of days after I decide for > sure whether or not I'll be attending. I should just call > and at least get on a waiting list or something. > > mjb. > From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 18 10:28:08 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:28:08 EST Subject: [Fot] Paddock Area and Entry Eligibility-Watkins Glen Message-ID: FoT Just talked to my favorite contact at SVRA: SVRA is going to allocate PREMIUM Paddock Space that combines hard surface and grass. We will have a hospitality area (tent) for gathering and protection and display of a couple of important Triumphs. SVRA says there is room for all manner of rigs. More on this later. (Heads up to Tom Strange and the WPTA) I will have more detailed info for you guys. I also talked about car eligibility and it remains on a case by case basis. If you think you are marginal in entry, please contact me and I will see what I can do. (Mike?) Regards, Joe Alexander From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 18 13:49:37 2007 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:49:37 -0500 Subject: [Fot] For the racer who has every tool made In-Reply-To: <47674313.1000705@141.com> References: <47674313.1000705@141.com> Message-ID: > This just got posted to the Shop-Talk list and I thought it might be > appropriate for the FOT members who need to have every tool made.> > http://sheldonbrown.com/tork-grip.html> > Brad> 1957 TR3 vintage racer This guy is a friend of my brother's from when they were both photographers in Cambridge back in The Olden Days. Small world. John H. From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 18 18:14:24 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:14:24 EST Subject: [Fot] Stepped Triple Manifold for Webers on a GT6 Message-ID: Guys, John McCue is looking for subject parts....can anyone help? His eMail address is: slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net Thanks, Joe A > Looking for the stepped triple manifold for Webers on a GT6. I have the > straight one for TR6. Have any ideas who might have one? Thanks, John > Return-Path: Received: from rly-dc06.mx.aol.com (rly-dc06.mail.aol.com [172.19.136.35]) by air-dc10.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDC101-b254768529c59; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:22 -0500 Received: from omta01.suddenlink.net (omta01-pub.suddenlink.net [208.180.40.73]) by rly-dc06.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDC061-b254768529c59; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:08 -0500 Received: from johnkbv4bfa8sa ([75.108.225.18]) by omta01.suddenlink.net (InterMail vM.7.05.02.03 201-2174-114-109-20070208) with ESMTP id <20071218230704.WFIH19462.omta01.suddenlink.net at johnkbv4bfa8sa> for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:07:04 -0600 Message-ID: <000c01c841ca$b77a3d60$12e16c4b at johnkbv4bfa8sa> From: "John McCue" To: References: Subject: Re: Triumph Aluminum Plates Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-AOL-IP: 208.180.40.73 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : n X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Looking for the stepped triple manifold for Webers on a GT6. I have the straight one for TR6. Have any ideas who might have one? Thanks, John ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 9:45 PM Subject: Re: Triumph Aluminum Plates Have all of Kastners stuff and have talked to Steve Smith from the west coast a couple of times. Do you have Kas' latest three publications (books)? I sell them for him and have all three in stock. Regards, Joe From awashatko at wi.rr.com Tue Dec 18 19:17:22 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:17:22 -0600 Subject: [Fot] manifold gasket Message-ID: Jack, Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on page A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that they "are made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material that is thicker than the original composite gaskets." Could this be the same material you are using for the TR4 gaskets? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From Gt6steve at aol.com Tue Dec 18 19:41:54 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:41:54 EST Subject: [Fot] manifold gasket Message-ID: In a message dated 12/18/2007 6:17:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: Jack, Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on page A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that they "are made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material that is thicker than the original composite gaskets." Could this be the same material you are using for the TR4 gaskets? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 Allen, I don't have that catalog. Can you quote a part number and price? Lordy knows I'm always looking for a good (Read reusable) manifold gasket. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From S.Janzen at comcast.net Tue Dec 18 19:45:03 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:45:03 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Stepped Triple Manifold for Webers on a GT6 References: Message-ID: <000b01c841e9$28375740$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> I just picked up a GT6 that was hillclimbed and autocrossed. It came with spares including a head with the TriumphTune stepped manifolds bolted on, same as I have installed on my car. They don't appear to have ever been used but have been sitting on the floor of an unheated garage for about 20 years. They could use a good cleaning/beadblasting but are otherwise fine. Linkage is incomplete but Pierce Manifolds sells everything you need. Make me an offer! Scott Janzen, Philadelphia area ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 8:14 PM Subject: [Fot] Stepped Triple Manifold for Webers on a GT6 > Guys, > > John McCue is looking for subject parts....can anyone help? > His eMail address is: slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net > > Thanks, > > Joe A > > >> Looking for the stepped triple manifold for Webers on a GT6. I have the >> straight one for TR6. Have any ideas who might have one? Thanks, John >> > > > Return-Path: > Received: from rly-dc06.mx.aol.com (rly-dc06.mail.aol.com > [172.19.136.35]) by air-dc10.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id > MAILINDC101-b254768529c59; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:22 -0500 > Received: from omta01.suddenlink.net (omta01-pub.suddenlink.net > [208.180.40.73]) by rly-dc06.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id > MAILRELAYINDC061-b254768529c59; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:08 -0500 > Received: from johnkbv4bfa8sa ([75.108.225.18]) by omta01.suddenlink.net > (InterMail vM.7.05.02.03 201-2174-114-109-20070208) with ESMTP id > <20071218230704.WFIH19462.omta01.suddenlink.net at johnkbv4bfa8sa> for > ; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:07:04 -0600 > Message-ID: <000c01c841ca$b77a3d60$12e16c4b at johnkbv4bfa8sa> > From: "John McCue" > To: > References: > Subject: Re: Triumph Aluminum Plates > Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:09 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 > X-AOL-IP: 208.180.40.73 > X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n > X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : n > X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d > X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain > > Looking for the stepped triple manifold for Webers on a GT6. I have the > straight one for TR6. Have any ideas who might have one? Thanks, John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > To: slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 9:45 PM > Subject: Re: Triumph Aluminum Plates > > > > > > > Have all of Kastners stuff and have talked to Steve Smith from the west > coast a couple of times. > > > Do you have Kas' latest three publications (books)? > > I sell them for him and have all three in stock. > > Regards, > > Joe > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Tue Dec 18 20:00:29 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:00:29 -0600 Subject: [Fot] manifold gasket In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74fc942294cd3574444e6f843e89080b@wi.rr.com> Up to CC75000 - 695-050 from CC75001 - 695-060 Allen On Dec 18, 2007, at 8:41 PM, Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 12/18/2007 6:17:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: >> Jack, >> >> Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on page >> A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that they "are >> made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material that is >> thicker >> than the original composite gaskets." Could this be the same material >> you are using for the TR4 gaskets? >> >> Allen >> >> A l l e n W a s h a t k o >> 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > Allen, I don't have that catalog. Can you quote a part number and > price? Lordy knows I'm always looking for a good (Read reusable) > manifold gasket. > > > > See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Dec 18 20:05:35 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:05:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] manifold gasket In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <988037.97473.qm@web81209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Guys:If these are the P/N's 695-050 ($17.95) & 695-060 ($18.95) I've used this part for awhile now. They are about twice as thick as a stock gasket, and are made of a fiberous material instead of the composite stock gaskets. They have sealed every header I've ever put on a customers car, but, I would not consider them reusable. But then again, I don't have a lot of customers asking my to pull headers as often as we might on a race car. Thanks - Ed Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/18/2007 6:17:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: Jack, Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on page A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that they "are made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material that is thicker than the original composite gaskets." Could this be the same material you are using for the TR4 gaskets? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 Allen, I don't have that catalog. Can you quote a part number and price? Lordy knows I'm always looking for a good (Read reusable) manifold gasket. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Dec 18 20:17:31 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:17:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] manifold gasket In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <78170.67523.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Good idea! I can see these splitting after being compressed for a period. Of course, cleaning the manifold of any sharp edges would cut down on the header cutting the material. I'm not saying the gaskets aren't good...I use them all the time and pay the extra $$$ so I'll never have to worry about manifold leaks. For that they are great! - Ed Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: I bought some very high dollar gaskets from Remco or somesuch that were very thick and forgiving. sadly they split when disassembled so I started wrapping them in foil before install to provide a sacrificial layer. I'm hoping these gaskets are similar: Guys:If these are the P/N's 695-050 ($17.95) & 695-060 ($18.95) I've used this part for awhile now. They are about twice as thick as a stock gasket, and are made of a fiberous material instead of the composite stock gaskets. They have sealed every header I've ever put on a customers car, but, I would not consider them reusable. But then again, I don't have a lot of customers asking my to pull headers as often as we might on a race car. Thanks - Ed Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/18/2007 6:17:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: Jack, Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on page A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that they "are made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material that is thicker than the original composite gaskets." Could this be the same material you are using for the TR4 gaskets? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 Allen, I don't have that catalog. Can you quote a part number and price? Lordy knows I'm always looking for a good (Read reusable) manifold gasket. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Dec 19 04:47:27 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 05:47:27 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Re: manifold gasket Message-ID: <200712191147.lBJBlZbr304579@ns3.geneseo.net> >Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 05:45:34 -0600 >To: Allen Washatko >From: "Jack W. Drews" >Subject: Re: manifold gasket > >Could be, but I doubt it. My gaskets aren't fibrous -- they are >compacted graphite -- but if theirs is thicker than stock, it's got >to be better for this application. > >At 08:17 PM 12/18/2007, you wrote: >>Jack, >> >>Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on >>page A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that >>they "are made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material >>that is thicker than the original composite gaskets." Could this be >>the same material you are using for the TR4 gaskets? >> >>Allen >> >>A l l e n W a s h a t k o >>1971 TR6 - Number 6 From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Dec 19 07:16:17 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:16:17 EST Subject: [Fot] paging Joe Curry and Mike Munson.... thanks! (no text) Message-ID: From triosan at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 11:27:47 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:27:47 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question Message-ID: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> I am replacing a ratty top on a 74.5 TR6. Want to know which, if any, of the seals, velcro etc. shown in the Moss catalog I need to buy [total comes to 140 or so for everything]. Is the front seal that mates with the windshield reusable, or does it get destroyed when removed? Am having a professional shop do the install, so want to take all the needed parts to them. Thanks, -- Chuck Arnold From don at carterdesignassociates.com Wed Dec 19 16:35:28 2007 From: don at carterdesignassociates.com (Don Carter) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:35:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003d01c84297$d66cab40$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> My advice is to replace the rubber seal that mates with the windshield for sure. The side seals and the top side channels that hold these rubbers at the top of the glass when it is rolled up, are also a good idea to replace. All this stuff, at least in Texas gets brittle and makes little or no seal after 25 or 30 years. What is the life span of these materials? For that matter what is the life span of a TR6 ? Your trim guy will find it much easier slipping a new seal in the top channel, translating to less time for him, which translates to a lower cost, or should. Most of these FOT racing guys don't need no stinking trim, unless they have other TR's they drive on the streets. This stuff just adds weight. Good Luck. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+don=carterdesignassociates.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+don=carterdesignassociates.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Chuck Arnold Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 12:28 PM To: Triumph; Friends Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question I am replacing a ratty top on a 74.5 TR6. Want to know which, if any, of the seals, velcro etc. shown in the Moss catalog I need to buy [total comes to 140 or so for everything]. Is the front seal that mates with the windshield reusable, or does it get destroyed when removed? Am having a professional shop do the install, so want to take all the needed parts to them. Thanks, -- Chuck Arnold Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Wed Dec 19 17:03:19 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:03:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <637442.4890.qm@web81202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Chuck: Absolutely on the header to windshield seal. It will probably get torn or damaged as it is removed anyway. The strips that hold it on are reusable as long as your shop doesn't enlarge the holes too much drilling the rivets out. You'll have to look at the side seals and see if they are pliable. Many times the velcro comes unglued, but is just fine, i which case the side seals are removed, the strips that retain them are removed, and the velcro reglued. If the sside seals aren't pliable they won't survive te removal and reinstallation. Your call on those. Good luck - Ed Chuck Arnold wrote: I am replacing a ratty top on a 74.5 TR6. Want to know which, if any, of the seals, velcro etc. shown in the Moss catalog I need to buy [total comes to 140 or so for everything]. Is the front seal that mates with the windshield reusable, or does it get destroyed when removed? Am having a professional shop do the install, so want to take all the needed parts to them. Thanks, -- Chuck Arnold Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rem9 at frontiernet.net Wed Dec 19 17:43:46 2007 From: rem9 at frontiernet.net (Russ Moore) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:43:46 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question References: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00eb01c842a1$628f3760$03fea8c0@remsec1> Avoid any rubber product made in China. We've had rapid failures of everything from door gaskets, steering rack boots, rod end boots, etc.. Its worth the extra little bit to get the better quality product. Russ Moore ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Triumph" <6pack at autox.team.net>; "Friends" Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 1:27 PM Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question >I am replacing a ratty top on a 74.5 TR6. Want to know which, if any, of > the seals, velcro etc. shown in the Moss catalog I need to buy [total > comes > to 140 or so for everything]. Is the front seal that mates with the > windshield reusable, or does it get destroyed when removed? Am having a > professional shop do the install, so want to take all the needed parts to > them. > Thanks, > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitfiresuz at 141.com Wed Dec 19 18:19:46 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:19:46 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question In-Reply-To: <00eb01c842a1$628f3760$03fea8c0@remsec1> References: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> <00eb01c842a1$628f3760$03fea8c0@remsec1> Message-ID: <4769C332.3050306@141.com> I agree. We just divested ourselves of a set of six Long March tires (for our Airstream motorhome) where not one single tire was in round. (The truck tire place we went to to have them checked said they rarely see good ones.) This was actually after receiving a favorable recommendation from someone who is using them on his moho, but his are a good bit older and the quality may not have been so bad then. We got a set of Toyos to replace them and are very pleased. Fortunately, the tire place reimbursed us in full for the LM's, even after trips to Pennsylvania and Branson on them. Brad said he saw somewhere today that the affluent Chinese are buying high-end Japanese toys, and not Chinese ones. Reminds me of the joke on Jay Leno the other night: A Chinese government official said they had to recall one million pounds of lead, destined for export from their country, because they found toys in it. ;) Susan :) Russ Moore wrote: > Avoid any rubber product made in China. We've had rapid failures of > everything from door gaskets, steering rack boots, rod end boots, etc.. Its > worth the extra little bit to get the better quality product. > > Russ Moore > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From stlnyc at msn.com Wed Dec 19 19:53:49 2007 From: stlnyc at msn.com (Fred & Mary Hodgson) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:53:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question References: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Chuck- Another thing to check is the webbing for the bows. It's often overlooked & is a pain to do after the fact. Fred Hodgson ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Arnold To: Triumph ; Friends Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 11:27 AM Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question I am replacing a ratty top on a 74.5 TR6. Want to know which, if any, of the seals, velcro etc. shown in the Moss catalog I need to buy [total comes to 140 or so for everything]. Is the front seal that mates with the windshield reusable, or does it get destroyed when removed? Am having a professional shop do the install, so want to take all the needed parts to them. Thanks, -- Chuck Arnold _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vintage.racer at comcast.net Wed Dec 19 20:40:23 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:40:23 -0800 Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? Message-ID: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice> Hello All: Hang on to those vintage Triumph racecars! The January 2008 issue of Vintage Racecar magazine contains an ad (page 22) from a UK race car seller for a 1963 TR4 for...hold on to your wallets...37,500 pounds which translates to about $75,000! The car is described as "The most successful and consistent endurance raced TR4 in Europe". Guess this means my mid-pack, California raced TR4 is worth something less than this cars asking price, ha, ha. Gary 1962 TR4 1969 TR6 From EDENMA at aol.com Wed Dec 19 21:00:28 2007 From: EDENMA at aol.com (EDENMA at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:00:28 EST Subject: [Fot] GT6 Stepped manifolds Message-ID: I would also like to locate a set of stepped weber manifolds for the GT6 if anyone else happens to have a set they are not using and would be willing to part with. Cheers! Mark **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From spreiss at verizon.net Wed Dec 19 05:06:08 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:06:08 +1100 Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? References: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice> Message-ID: <000801c84237$8a80a3e0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> It seems the price for TR3s and 4s is much higher in England for all levels of cars. Perhaps it is because most were sold in foreign markets, with the vast majority sent here to the US. Small cars were still very much a novelty here, and disposable income much more widespread. Nevertheless I'm continually amazed at the steady appearance of new candidates for restoration here. No wonder the discrepency in acquisition costs. Perhaps we should start marketing our TRs for sale over there more! Steve Preiss ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary" To: Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 2:40 PM Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > Hello All: > > Hang on to those vintage Triumph racecars! The January 2008 issue of Vintage > Racecar magazine contains an ad (page 22) from a UK race car seller for a 1963 > TR4 for...hold on to your wallets...37,500 pounds which translates to about > $75,000! The car is described as "The most successful and consistent > endurance raced TR4 in Europe". Guess this means my mid-pack, California > raced TR4 is worth something less than this cars asking price, ha, ha. > > Gary > 1962 TR4 > 1969 TR6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Dec 20 06:59:28 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:59:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? In-Reply-To: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice> References: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice> Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BD051E8@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Could that be the Cambridge Motorsports car? I've seen it advertised for big bucks. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 9:40 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? Hello All: Hang on to those vintage Triumph racecars! The January 2008 issue of Vintage Racecar magazine contains an ad (page 22) from a UK race car seller for a 1963 TR4 for...hold on to your wallets...37,500 pounds which translates to about $75,000! The car is described as "The most successful and consistent endurance raced TR4 in Europe". Guess this means my mid-pack, California raced TR4 is worth something less than this cars asking price, ha, ha. Gary 1962 TR4 1969 TR6 Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Dec 20 07:09:24 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:09:24 EST Subject: [Fot] Where Kas' last car....GT6? Message-ID: Lists, I am looking for Kas' Last Car, a GT6. Where is it at. Who owns it? Is it for sale? No, I dont want to buy it. :-) Thanks, Joe A n197tr4 at cs.com From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Dec 20 09:40:22 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:40:22 EST Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? Message-ID: You might also try Racetorations. They do some pretty fantastic work too and have been racing Triumphs for close to 30 years now. Gary Fuqua **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Dec 20 11:52:14 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:52:14 EST Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen:Looking for Candidate Triumph for commissioned painting Message-ID: FoT: I am looking for a Triumph that has serious Provenance, preferably a Triumph that has a History with The Glen. I have one candidate in mind, that may serve the spirit of the painting, but need to consider others. ASAP! Regards, Joe From tr4.tony at virgin.net Fri Dec 21 09:06:35 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:06:35 -0000 Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? References: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice> <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BD051E8@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Message-ID: <004e01c843eb$75c37b20$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> I believe its the Cambridge Motorsport Enduro TR4 ..... all the toys, very very quick ...... and id love it. Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kramer, Robert" To: "Gary" ; Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > Could that be the Cambridge Motorsports car? I've seen it advertised for > big bucks. > > > Bob Kramer > Sales Manager > RDO Equipment Co. > 16415 North IH 35 > Pflugerville, TX 78660 > 512-272-4141 > Fx 512-272-9365 > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of Gary > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 9:40 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > > Hello All: > > Hang on to those vintage Triumph racecars! The January 2008 issue of > Vintage Racecar magazine contains an ad (page 22) from a UK race car > seller for a 1963 > TR4 for...hold on to your wallets...37,500 pounds which translates to > about $75,000! The car is described as "The most successful and > consistent endurance raced TR4 in Europe". Guess this means my > mid-pack, California raced TR4 is worth something less than this cars > asking price, ha, ha. > > Gary > 1962 TR4 > 1969 TR6 > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Dec 21 13:02:46 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:02:46 -0800 Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? References: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice><950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BD051E8@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> <004e01c843eb$75c37b20$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Message-ID: <006401c8440c$75428850$1b02a8c0@workstation3> Don't forget the pound is pretty strong right now and in the UK a pound buys as much as dollar does in the US (or close). So if you think about it that way the cars is only about $37,500, which may not be bad for a TR4 with history. The problem is if we were to sell it for $37500 here the Brits would be able to pick it up for about 17000 pounds. I hate to see all the British cars go back to their homeland. Maybe some day we can get our dollar strong again and start buying them back. A Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays to all. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 BTW, I finished 2nd in overall points this year in the small bore group in SOVREN. Quite an accomplishment for a TR6! ----- Original Message ----- From: "TR4Tony" To: "Kramer, Robert" ; "Gary" ; Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > I believe its the Cambridge Motorsport Enduro TR4 ..... all the toys, very > very quick ...... and id love it. > > Tony > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kramer, Robert" > To: "Gary" ; > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 1:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > > > > Could that be the Cambridge Motorsports car? I've seen it advertised for > > big bucks. > > > > > > Bob Kramer > > Sales Manager > > RDO Equipment Co. > > 16415 North IH 35 > > Pflugerville, TX 78660 > > 512-272-4141 > > Fx 512-272-9365 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net > > [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf > > Of Gary > > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 9:40 PM > > To: fot at autox.team.net > > Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > > > > Hello All: > > > > Hang on to those vintage Triumph racecars! The January 2008 issue of > > Vintage Racecar magazine contains an ad (page 22) from a UK race car > > seller for a 1963 > > TR4 for...hold on to your wallets...37,500 pounds which translates to > > about $75,000! The car is described as "The most successful and > > consistent endurance raced TR4 in Europe". Guess this means my > > mid-pack, California raced TR4 is worth something less than this cars > > asking price, ha, ha. > > > > Gary > > 1962 TR4 > > 1969 TR6 > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 22 14:37:33 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:37:33 EST Subject: [Fot] Joe & Dottie Richards to be Honored at Watkins Glen (TR2 TS1 LO) Message-ID: THE FOT TO HONOR THE RICHARDS AT WATKINS GLEN In 1980 Joe Richards purchased TR2 TS1 LO and subsequently spent 18 years of his life meticulously restoring the first TR2. Targeted by the UK at the North America market, it featured LHD and Overdrive. This merits our attention and respect, as Joe and his family preserved an important part of our Triumph Racing Heritage. The TR2 was the first low cost performance sports car that enabled the rapid growth of our sport in North America. Hill, Gurney, Kastner, and many more talented racers started their careers with TR2s and TR3s. Joe and Dottie have agreed to join us in the paddock with the number one TR2 on display. They will also be participating in activities in the Village of Watkins Glen. FOT Robert Smith will be working with the Richards for the transport and display of the TR2 TS1 LO and coordinating their activities. Press releases, on this and other FOT activities will be forthcoming by one of our sponsors, CLASSIC MOTORSPORTS MAGAZINE. In the meantime, please review the following link that contains pictures of how the UK Honored the Richards in 2003 for the 50th Anniversary of the Marque. www.triumphregister.com/TS1%20LO%20Returns%20Home%20to%20Britain.html Regards, Joe Alexander Robert Smith From mark at bradakis.com Sat Dec 22 16:49:11 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:49:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Away for a bit Message-ID: <476DA277.4040009@bradakis.com> Gee, the days are getting longer now, 100 degree temps could be here any day now! Well, maybe there's a bit of time before summer actually shows up here in Utah. Plenty of time for me to plan on attending the big event at Watkins Glen. I have a feeling it may be better attended than the FOT race here at Miller's track this past summer. Anyway, we'll be heading to the airport soon for a quick trip to visit family for Christmas, hopefully the Team.Net servers won't act up in my absence. I should be back on wednesday to deal with them if they do. mjb. From b_close at hotmail.com Sat Dec 22 20:13:08 2007 From: b_close at hotmail.com (Bill Close) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:13:08 -0700 Subject: [Fot] rust free TR-4 for sale Message-ID: I have been saving this 1964 TR-4 to restore but have lost my storage and the room it would take to restore it. It has been a Phoenix, Arizona car we think all of its life. It is a complete car minus uphostry and windshield. I do have the windshield frame and TR-250 or early TR-4 seats. It has been stored inside most of its life. The frame was powder coated gloss black , floor pans are solid as are the rockers, no rust under the bottom of the fenders, the body is pretty straight. I had to reassemble the car and reinstall the body, parts are boxed and packed away for storage or shipping. Car is a roller with motor and 4 speed trans installed. Solid rear axle and disc wheels with hubcaps. $2,500. Arizona title.Bill Close Mesa, AZ (602)524-5351 _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sun Dec 23 11:28:58 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:28:58 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Cyl Head Stud sealant Message-ID: <000601c84591$aefaddf0$0301000a@Chowdown> Do you all like to use loctite red or black permatex silicone sealant when installing head studs? Thanks in advance. ~Steve From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 23 13:26:19 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:26:19 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications References: <000601c84591$aefaddf0$0301000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: I've had a number of people ask me about modifying the upper "a" arm with rose joints as I did on Peyote. I'm really hesitant to help folks do this since you can really screw up your front suspension and make the car more than a bit squirrelly. There isn't a recipe for improving the handling of a TR3/4 other than the kind of results you should end up with. Shortening the upper A arm to gain camber is not a great modification, though it's common. I've modeled this several different ways, and it always looks ugly. I'm convinced that the main reason most of us wind up with stiff springs is that when the suspension moves it's a bad thing. With shortened upper arms you can wind up with six or even seven degrees of camber at full upward travel. You don't need a computer to show this, just pull the lower shock and spring plate and run the suspension up to the bump stop. You'll be horrified at how much your tire tips inward if you have short upper arms. The contact patch is probably a half inch wide or less. No wonder these cars understeer under hard cornering. My recommendations are. 1. Buy all of Kas' books. 2. Read them. 3. Read them again. 4. Measure your camber at center, full extension and full bump. 5. Look at the rules for the organization you run with. If they allow you to move the upper suspension pivot point, and you're going to run radials, move the suspension point inward and use full length arms. You want to wind up with 2-3 degrees of camber at the center position. 6. If you can't do that, consider small changes like using the TR6 or Jag ball joint. Personally, the change I like best for TR3 suspension is using a TR6 lower trunnion, upper arms and ball joint. It gives you three degrees of caster and if you really need camber adjustment you can slot the attachment bolt holes for the ball joint or drill alternate location holes. I'd give up a little camber with the suspension at ride height rather than have way too much when the wheel is loaded. That caster might add wear to the worm and pin steering, but if you're exclusively racing the car, not street driving it, that won't matter. Having the car stable when the steering input is light (or gone, in my case) is a great thing. I've harped on this before, but the bump steer in these cars is horrific. You can work to eliminate that and have a car that works so much better you won't believe the difference. Once you do that you can soften those springs and let the suspension work some. Makes another huge difference. From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Dec 23 14:24:19 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:24:19 EST Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications Message-ID: In a message dated 12/23/2007 12:30:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: I've harped on this before, but the bump steer in these cars is horrific. You can work to eliminate that and have a car that works so much better you won't believe the difference. Once you do that you can soften those springs and let the suspension work some. Makes another huge difference. Amen! **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From fubog1 at aol.com Sun Dec 23 14:53:52 2007 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:53:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA13C570E67C88-57C-3C79@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> uhh, this gets a second AMEN! The cars have a suspension system, might as well use it... Good post Bill! Merry X-mas to all Glen -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: BillB at bnj.com; colordog.1 at earthlink.net; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 4:24 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications In a message dated 12/23/2007 12:30:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: I've harped on this before, but the bump steer in these cars is horrific. You can work to eliminate that and have a car that works so much better you won't believe the difference. Once you do that you can soften those springs and let the suspension work some. Makes another huge difference. Amen! **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Sun Dec 23 16:18:06 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:18:06 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c845ba$13783de0$b1191718@computer> Do these comments apply to the TR6? Thanks, Jim Two '74 TR6s -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 12:26 PM To: Steve Belfer; Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications I've had a number of people ask me about modifying the upper "a" arm with rose joints as I did on Peyote. I'm really hesitant to help folks do this since you can really screw up your front suspension and make the car more than a bit squirrelly. There isn't a recipe for improving the handling of a TR3/4 other than the kind of results you should end up with. Shortening the upper A arm to gain camber is not a great modification, though it's common. I've modeled this several different ways, and it always looks ugly. I'm convinced that the main reason most of us wind up with stiff springs is that when the suspension moves it's a bad thing. With shortened upper arms you can wind up with six or even seven degrees of camber at full upward travel. You don't need a computer to show this, just pull the lower shock and spring plate and run the suspension up to the bump stop. You'll be horrified at how much your tire tips inward if you have short upper arms. The contact patch is probably a half inch wide or less. No wonder these cars understeer under hard cornering. My recommendations are. 1. Buy all of Kas' books. 2. Read them. 3. Read them again. 4. Measure your camber at center, full extension and full bump. 5. Look at the rules for the organization you run with. If they allow you to move the upper suspension pivot point, and you're going to run radials, move the suspension point inward and use full length arms. You want to wind up with 2-3 degrees of camber at the center position. 6. If you can't do that, consider small changes like using the TR6 or Jag ball joint. Personally, the change I like best for TR3 suspension is using a TR6 lower trunnion, upper arms and ball joint. It gives you three degrees of caster and if you really need camber adjustment you can slot the attachment bolt holes for the ball joint or drill alternate location holes. I'd give up a little camber with the suspension at ride height rather than have way too much when the wheel is loaded. That caster might add wear to the worm and pin steering, but if you're exclusively racing the car, not street driving it, that won't matter. Having the car stable when the steering input is light (or gone, in my case) is a great thing. I've harped on this before, but the bump steer in these cars is horrific. You can work to eliminate that and have a car that works so much better you won't believe the difference. Once you do that you can soften those springs and let the suspension work some. Makes another huge difference. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Sun Dec 23 17:55:56 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:55:56 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Rear Diff Oil Message-ID: <81f63f5d81d5876e115d216f586cb4b7@wi.rr.com> FoT, What type of rear diff oil are you running when you have either a Quaiffe, Detroit Locker or other such LSD? Have a great holiday! Allen Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From spitlist at cox.net Sun Dec 23 21:07:56 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:07:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear Diff Oil In-Reply-To: <81f63f5d81d5876e115d216f586cb4b7@wi.rr.com> References: <81f63f5d81d5876e115d216f586cb4b7@wi.rr.com> Message-ID: <000601c845e2$90787d00$0202a8c0@newcomputer> Quaife says to use whatever you were using before installing their carrier. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Allen Washatko Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 5:56 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Rear Diff Oil FoT, What type of rear diff oil are you running when you have either a Quaiffe, Detroit Locker or other such LSD? Have a great holiday! Allen Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 23 21:16:53 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:16:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Cool Photo sequence Message-ID: <20071224042513.SRMG28314.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> These photos were taken at our November Enduro event at Firebird's Main track. These were taken during the Qualifying session. Cool sequence entering the Tower Turn. Doing about 55.9 mph and pulling 1.61 G's at this point according to our data acquisition computer. You can see them really leaning their heads into the corner as Tyler (#18) and Rich (#54) try to cut under the kart in front of them with a tighter line. http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4119.jpg http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4120.jpg http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4121.jpg http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4122.jpg You can then see Tyler has the inside rear wheel WAY OFF the ground in this shot going around the corner on three wheels to cut it even tighter to pass Rich and the kart in front of Rich. The guy that took the photos added a graphic showing how far off the ground the wheel is and added a comment. HeHe... http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4123.jpg Here you can see that his line has changed a ton from doing that. http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4124.jpg Tyler Qualified 3rd out of Top speed at the end of the front straight is 102.3 mph Top RPM: 12,592 Top G load seen: 2.11 Between Turns 9 and 10 the 125cc Shifter karts are in sixth gear doing 90 mph and within 1.7 seconds they will transition from a left hand turn pulling 1.65 G to the right hand turn where they will pull 2.11 G. The absolute highest G I have seen him hit on Firebird was the section entering what is known as the "Concrete Canyon" where he got to 2.65 G Here is a helmet cam video taken during the Qualifying session that same day http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=88 Second Row on the right hand side. The kart you briefly see going off track (it flipped) brought out a black flag right in the middle of the session. From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Mon Dec 24 06:19:42 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:19:42 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Chainwheels In-Reply-To: <003b01c8440b$7c135570$6700a8c0@Edscomputer> References: <003b01c8440b$7c135570$6700a8c0@Edscomputer> Message-ID: <200712241420.lBOEJtpa115069@ns3.geneseo.net> I use a new chain, a new crank sprocket, and an adjustable cam sprocket so I can more easily degree the cam. A street car doesn't need the luxury of the adjustable sprocket because hopefully it doesn't have to come apart as often as a race car. I find that the new parts are okay, but the cam sprockets do not have the holes drilled the way the old ones did, which allowed you to get the cam timing pretty close. The new ones are drilled exactly symmetrical, so you can only set the timing as close as one tooth difference. I believe you must also put your own mark on it for the next disassembly. At 01:55 PM 12/21/2007, you wrote: >Listers, > >I attempted to fit a new timing chain to a TR4 engine this morning. >It's loose as a goose, so I suspect that new crank and cam >chainwheels are in order, part nos. 55971 and 57113. > >I'm always leery of repro parts, so wonder what's out there for this >application. > >Does anyone have any experience with the currently available items? > >What are the FOT guys using? > >Thanks, > >Ed Woods From tr6nut at verizon.net Mon Dec 24 08:10:03 2007 From: tr6nut at verizon.net (Hugh Barber) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 10:10:03 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Happy Holidays to All of You Message-ID: <476FCBCB.30402@verizon.net> I just wanted to take a moment and wish all of you a very Merry Christmas / Happy Hanukkah / Merry Festivus and a happy and safe New Year. Hugh Barber Stafford, VA '73 TR6 From budscars at msn.com Mon Dec 24 08:21:47 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:21:47 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Happy Holidays to All of You References: <476FCBCB.30402@verizon.net> Message-ID: Thank You!..Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to All! Racer Bud..Sonoma, Ca. 67 Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hugh Barber" To: ; "Triumph List" ; "6pack" <6pack at autox.team.net> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 7:10 AM Subject: [Fot] Happy Holidays to All of You >I just wanted to take a moment and wish all of you a very Merry > Christmas / Happy Hanukkah / Merry Festivus and a happy and safe New Year. > > Hugh Barber > Stafford, VA > '73 TR6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Dec 24 10:32:19 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 17:32:19 GMT Subject: [Fot] Rear Diff Oil Message-ID: <20071224.123219.22135.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com> I use Redline Shockproof Heavy gear oil. I was using the lighter formula until I broke a ring and pinion and was told that the Heavy is better. I have used it with a detriot locker and a Tran-X (salisbury type) diff. I spoke with Redline about what to use with the Tran-X and they said either the light or heavy was good to use. Joe(B) -- Allen Washatko wrote: FoT, What type of rear diff oil are you running when you have either a Quaiffe, Detroit Locker or other such LSD? Have a great holiday! Allen Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Make a difference. Click to start a career in medical administration and increase your income. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijndnNMLjJ6QcyESktlzjp0lg ZKE34yxux15wwviYFzI1IOKv/ From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 24 11:02:59 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 10:02:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications References: <20071224.124426.22135.2@webmail19.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Oops, bounced for over the word limit. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 9:59 AM To: Joe Boruch; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Suspension modifications Sorry, I was being imprecise, didn't know the TR6 ones are different. I'm using these control arm bits (moss): 661-060 $84.95 CONTROL ARM, upper rear TR4 from CT6344 (wire whl.) CT6391 (disc whl.) 661-050 $39.95 CONTROL ARM, upper front TR4 from CT6344 (wire whl.) CT6391 (disc whl.) 661-080 $48.10 BALL JOINT PAIR (w/nut, boot and clip) Note:Permanently lubricated (no grease nipple) TR4 from CT6344 (wire whl.) CT6391 (disc whl.) And these lower trunnions: 661-450 $106.95 TRUNNION, R/H bot. (30 castor) Note: Current trunnion pins are not drilled for cotter pins. Use nyloc nut #310-320 (2 per trunnion). Use grease seal 520-220 with all replacement trunnion TR4 from CT6343, (wire whl.), CT6390 (disc whl.) 661-460 $106.95 TRUNNION, L/H bot. Note: Current trunnion pins are not drilled for cotter pins. Use nyloc nut #310-320 (2 per trunnion). Use grease seal 520-220 with all replacement trunnion TR4 from CT6343, (wire whl.), CT6390 (disc whl.) 1 -----Original Message----- From: Joe Boruch [mailto:jaboruch at netzero.net] Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 9:44 AM To: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications Bill, when you say to use TR6 lower trunnions, do you mean the whole upright? The TR6 Trunions (the brass part that screws onto the bottom of the upright) has a larger thread than the TR3-4-4A ones. Joe(B) - From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Dec 24 11:23:41 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 18:23:41 GMT Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR3's and TR4's Message-ID: <20071224.132341.13626.1@webmail07.dca.untd.com> I received my SCCA 2008 GCR in the mail recently and to my horror I discovered that Triumph TR3's and TR4's were no longer included in the Production Car Specs. SCCA had talked about dropping the TR2 from the PCS since it has been a while since any of them have raced with SCCA. Likely some no mind just eliminated the whole line, including the TR3's and TR4's, rather than only eliminating the TR2. Just in case this was not a clerical error, would all of you FOTers that are SCCA members drop a note to the SCCA to relist TR3's and TR4's. You can email the Competition Board at CRB at SCCA.com. Thanks, Joe(B) _____________________________________________________________ Click now to turn any floor into a dance floor! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlKfLn2bltJf6OMhro07Ab44 I8aFhhleZtmvD3M7eAq9Aqh0/ From wgrosenbach at juno.com Mon Dec 24 12:28:25 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:28:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Track Elevation Changes Message-ID: <20071224.122825.3608.1.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Christmas & assorted - associated Greetings, The following is a link to the bulletin board on the RMVR website containing an item I posted regarding track elevation changes on tracks in North America. http://p092.ezboard.com/frmvrfrm19.showMessage?topicID=39.topic It contains a link to a spreadsheet comparing the tracks. Enjoy, Bill From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 24 13:01:59 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:01:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications References: <000601c84591$aefaddf0$0301000a@Chowdown> <200712241931.lBOJV9b4270273@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: I don't run this modification on Peyote, but I did on my cheater TR3, and I probably will add a version of it to Peyote this year. I made a 1/4" steel plate that holds the pivot point using two countersunk screws to hold the rear of the pivot to the plate. The front pivot bolts go tthrough the original back pivot holes, and the front of the plate bolts to the original front pivot bolt holes. This moves the pivot back the width of the pivot bolt hole spacing--about 1.6 inches as I recall. According to SusProg it's too much, but it's easy to do and it works pretty well. Most of the force against the pivot pushes the plate down against the shock towerr--I never had even a hint of bending or other problems. In fact I forgot to fully tighten the countersunk bolts once and didn't have any problem. Many years ago I recall seeing someone run a TR3 with the pivot moved back and only bolted on the front side through the rear bolt holes--same idea but a much scarier approach. In fact it was the inspiration for my modification. You need to make the upper arms longer to clear the shock tower and give a proper amount of camber, so it makes sense to convert to rose joints and have adjustability. With the stock arms you'd have about four degrees of camber, which is too much for our semi-radial tires. I'm a bit fuzzy on how I set that up, but I recollect it was 3 degrees with Comp TA tires and 3.5 with Yokohama A008's. With the arms set for bias ply tires (0 to 1 degree) I had about two degrees of camber gain at full bump (according to my sketchy notes). -----Original Message----- From: Jack W. Drews [mailto:vinttr4 at geneseo.net] Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 11:30 AM To: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications I agree with everything you've said about the camber change, the excess at full limit, small contact patch at high camber angle, and the advisability of leaving the upper a-arm at least as long as stock -- maybe longer is even better. I'd like to modify my car as you suggest. Last winter I spent some amount of time trying to figure out how to do that and was not successful in figuring it out. I have one photo somewhere of one of your cars, Peyote I think, that looks like the new attaching points are on brackets welded to the front and back of the tower and braced at least in the rear to the diagonal brace to the rear. My problem was trying to figure out how to do that on a car with stock bodywork without removing the body. Any suggestions? From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 24 13:07:51 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:07:51 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications References: <000601c84591$aefaddf0$0301000a@Chowdown><200712241931.lBOJV9b4270273@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: Here's a hint that goes along with this. When you want to adjust the heim (rose) joints just remove the two bolts that hold the upper arm to the ball joint and turn the arms in or out to adjust. I'm still embarrassed about how long ti took me to figure that one out. I was disassembling half the car to make the adjustments. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Bill Babcock Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 12:01 PM To: Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications I don't run this modification on Peyote, but I did on my cheater TR3, and I probably will add a version of it to Peyote this year. I made a 1/4" steel plate that holds the pivot point using two countersunk screws to hold the rear of the pivot to the plate. The front pivot bolts go tthrough the original back pivot holes, and the front of the plate bolts to the original front pivot bolt holes. This moves the pivot back the width of the pivot bolt hole spacing--about 1.6 inches as I recall. According to SusProg it's too much, but it's easy to do and it works pretty well. Most of the force against the pivot pushes the plate down against the shock towerr--I never had even a hint of bending or other problems. In fact I forgot to fully tighten the countersunk bolts once and didn't have any problem. Many years ago I recall seeing someone run a TR3 with the pivot moved back and only bolted on the front side through the rear bolt holes--same idea but a much scarier approach. In fact it was the inspiration for my modification. You need to make the upper arms longer to clear the shock tower and give a proper amount of camber, so it makes sense to convert to rose joints and have adjustability. With the stock arms you'd have about four degrees of camber, which is too much for our semi-radial tires. I'm a bit fuzzy on how I set that up, but I recollect it was 3 degrees with Comp TA tires and 3.5 with Yokohama A008's. With the arms set for bias ply tires (0 to 1 degree) I had about two degrees of camber gain at full bump (according to my sketchy notes). -----Original Message----- From: Jack W. Drews [mailto:vinttr4 at geneseo.net] Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 11:30 AM To: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications I agree with everything you've said about the camber change, the excess at full limit, small contact patch at high camber angle, and the advisability of leaving the upper a-arm at least as long as stock -- maybe longer is even better. I'd like to modify my car as you suggest. Last winter I spent some amount of time trying to figure out how to do that and was not successful in figuring it out. I have one photo somewhere of one of your cars, Peyote I think, that looks like the new attaching points are on brackets welded to the front and back of the tower and braced at least in the rear to the diagonal brace to the rear. My problem was trying to figure out how to do that on a car with stock bodywork without removing the body. Any suggestions? Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Mon Dec 24 14:53:42 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:53:42 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Holiday Greetings Message-ID: <4b8121c2fa55f1479b5a25ed4686e193@wi.rr.com> FoT, Just wanted to stop and wish all of you a joyous and fulfilling holiday. I also wanted to thank everyone for their many responses and valuable contributions to my email questions as well as others over the past year. It really makes this "British endeavor" easier and much more enjoyable! Peace, Allen Allen & Jody Washatko 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From dave at microworks.net Mon Dec 24 15:02:31 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:02:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Message-ID: <20071224220710.ZOX18667.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a brilliant TR6. http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 Top video on the page From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 24 15:44:59 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:44:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... In-Reply-To: <20071224220710.ZOX18667.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <935155.47093.qm@web81111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> but .... shoveling snow in wisconsin is soooooooo much more fun .. "David W. Riddle" wrote: Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a brilliant TR6. http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 Top video on the page Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From westerneagleracing at att.net Mon Dec 24 16:51:39 2007 From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:51:39 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Message-ID: <122420072351.4830.4770460B00021410000012DE22193100029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Happy Holidays to All. Its 60 degrees in Marin County California and if the garage was open I would take my racing TR4 out (it is "street legal") (well it at least has a license plate). Gary, are you driving the ex-Ron Jacobs TR6? Ron Jacobs, Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from "David W. Riddle" : -------------- > Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a > brilliant TR6. > > http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 > > Top video on the page > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jerrybarr at charter.net Mon Dec 24 17:12:21 2007 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 18:12:21 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... In-Reply-To: <122420072351.4830.4770460B00021410000012DE22193100029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> References: <122420072351.4830.4770460B00021410000012DE22193100029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: I live in Door County Wisconsin which sticks out into Lake Michigan It is 25 degrees with 4 inches of fresh snow today. The previous storm we had 6 inches of wind driven snow with gusts to 50 mph and gusts to 80 mph out on the lake. I'm trying to think of why I stay here in the winter. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!! On Dec 24, 2007, at 5:51 PM, westerneagleracing at att.net wrote: > Happy Holidays to All. > > Its 60 degrees in Marin County California and if the garage was open > I would take my racing TR4 out (it is "street legal") (well it at > least has a license plate). > > Gary, are you driving the ex-Ron Jacobs TR6? > > Ron Jacobs, Western Eagle Racing > > -------------- Original message from "David W. Riddle" >: -------------- > > >> Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a >> brilliant TR6. >> >> http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 >> >> Top video on the page >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 24 20:00:27 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:00:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Message-ID: <0237B765.04D7B122.00159EE9@cs.com> two hours behind a brilliant snowblower here. >Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a >brilliant TR6. > >http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 > >Top video on the page >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From SMITH1127 at aol.com Mon Dec 24 21:33:07 2007 From: SMITH1127 at aol.com (SMITH1127 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:33:07 EST Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Message-ID: I changed out a faulty generator in the TR3B and took it for a quick open car ride to make sure all was well. Filed my fingernails on the pavement while looking at the snow on Mauna Loa and Mauna Kea. Yeah, its Hawaii, but somebody's got to do it.....Mele Kalikimaka! Robert **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Dec 24 22:21:22 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:21:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... References: <122420072351.4830.4770460B00021410000012DE22193100029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: To Ron & all of you, a Blessed time to you all & yours. Ron, please say hello to my home town "The city by the Bay". The snow is almost melted here with a 50% chance of a dusting for Christmas day. (only in Colo.) Kev Lynch GT6 #6 RMVR ----- Original Message ----- From: westerneagleracing at att.net To: David W. Riddle Cc: wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Happy Holidays to All. Its 60 degrees in Marin County California and if the garage was open I would take my racing TR4 out (it is "street legal") (well it at least has a license plate). Gary, are you driving the ex-Ron Jacobs TR6? Ron Jacobs, Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from "David W. Riddle" >: -------------- > Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a > brilliant TR6. > > http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 > > Top video on the page > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 25 00:11:15 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:11:15 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... References: Message-ID: Mele Kalikimaka indeed. I;ll be back in Maui on January 3rd, thank god. Rainy and crappy in Portland. Egg Nog, a fire, family and friends makes it worthwhile, but I'm looking forward to surfing my guts out. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of SMITH1127 at aol.com Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 8:33 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com; dave at microworks.net; fot at autox.team.net; wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Eat your heart out... I changed out a faulty generator in the TR3B and took it for a quick open car ride to make sure all was well. Filed my fingernails on the pavement while looking at the snow on Mauna Loa and Mauna Kea. Yeah, its Hawaii, but somebody's got to do it.....Mele Kalikimaka! Robert **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Tue Dec 25 00:45:20 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 02:45:20 EST Subject: [Fot] God rest ye Merry Gentemen Message-ID: I just wanted to say, Yueltide Greetings, Compliments of the Season, and a Very Merry Christmas to one and all at this Festive Time. God Bless you one and all. Leon F Guyot Medford, OR From gp89 at charter.net Tue Dec 25 07:01:59 2007 From: gp89 at charter.net (gp89 at charter.net) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 6:01:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] From the SCCA Prodcar forum In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071225090159.LXO7P.121597.root@fepweb08> prodracing.com Forum Index prodracing.com Unofficial SCCA Production Car Racing Message Board Visit the Colorado Region SCCA FAQFAQ SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist UsergroupsUsergroups RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL.... Post new topic Reply to topic prodracing.com Forum Index -> General Discussion View previous topic :: View next topic Author Message Lesley Joined: 05 Jun 2006 Posts: 56 Location: Anadarko, Oklahoma PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL.... Reply with quote THE GIFT Author Unknown T'WAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS, HE LIVED ALL ALONE, IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE MADE OF PLASTER AND STONE. I HAD COME DOWN THE CHIMNEY WITH PRESENTS TO GIVE, AND TO SEE JUST WHO IN THIS HOME DID LIVE. I LOOKED ALL ABOUT, A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE, NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS, NOT EVEN A TREE. NO STOCKING BY MANTLE, JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND, ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURES OF FAR DISTANT LANDS. WITH MEDALS AND BADGES, AWARDS OF ALL KINDS, A SOBER THOUGHT CAME THROUGH MY MIND. FOR THIS HOUSE WAS DIFFERENT, IT WAS DARK AND DREARY, I FOUND THE HOME OF A SOLDIER, ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY. THE SOLDIER LAY SLEEPING, SILENT, ALONE, CURLED UP ON THE FLOOR IN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME. THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE, THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER, NOT HOW I PICTURED A UNITED STATES SOLDIER. WAS THIS THE HERO OF WHOM I'D JUST READ? CURLED UP ON A PONCHO, THE FLOOR FOR A BED? I REALIZED THE FAMILIES THAT I SAW THIS NIGHT, OWED THEIR LIVES TO THESE SOLDIERS WHO WERE WILLING TO FIGHT. SOON ROUND THE WORLD, THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY, AND GROWNUPS WOULD CELEBRATE A BRIGHT CHRISTMAS DAY. THEY ALL ENJOYED FREEDOM EACH MONTH OF THE YEAR, BECAUSE OF THE SOLDIERS, LIKE THE ONE LYING HERE. I COULDN'T HELP WONDER HOW MANY LAY ALONE, ON A COLD CHRISTMAS EVE IN A LAND FAR FROM HOME. THE VERY THOUGHT BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE, I DROPPED TO MY KNEES AND STARTED TO CRY. THE SOLDIER AWAKENED AND I HEARD A ROUGH VOICE, "SANTA DON'T CRY, THIS LIFE IS MY CHOICE; I FIGHT FOR FREEDOM, I DON'T ASK FOR MORE, MY LIFE IS MY GOD, MY COUNTRY, MY CORPS." THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER AND SOON DRIFTED TO SLEEP, I COULDN'T CONTROL IT, I CONTINUED TO WEEP. I KEPT WATCH FOR HOURS, SO SILENT AND STILL AND WE BOTH SHIVERED FROM THE COLD NIGHT'S CHILL. I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE ON THAT COLD, DARK, NIGHT, THIS GUARDIAN OF HONOR SO WILLING TO FIGHT. THEN THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER, WITH A VOICE SOFT AND PURE, WHISPERED, "CARRY ON SANTA, IT'S CHRISTMAS DAY, ALL IS SECURE." ONE LOOK AT MY WATCH, AND I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT. "MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FRIEND, AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT." Back to top From twakeman at razzolink.com Tue Dec 25 07:06:15 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 06:06:15 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47710E57.7060106@razzolink.com> My TR3 took my housemate and I out to breakfast on the 24th. That evening the top came off, we bundled up and drove into Monterey to look at Christmas lights in the TR3. Some Land Rover friends and I have a New Years tradition that goes back over a decade now. To end the year out on the trail driving our Land Rovers with friends, camping and enjoying each others company bundled up around the camp fire (usually below freezing at nights). Then to start the new year out on the trail driving our Land Rovers, being close to nature with good friends. We drive the Mojave trail over New Years. If you are a Land Rover off road type, it seems a fitting way to end a year and a promising way to begin a new year. A Happy Christmas to all and an auspicious New year! TeriAnn From twakeman at razzolink.com Tue Dec 25 07:06:15 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 06:06:15 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47710E57.3000104@razzolink.com> My TR3 took my housemate and I out to breakfast on the 24th. That evening the top came off, we bundled up and drove into Monterey to look at Christmas lights in the TR3. Some Land Rover friends and I have a New Years tradition that goes back over a decade now. To end the year out on the trail driving our Land Rovers with friends, camping and enjoying each others company bundled up around the camp fire (usually below freezing at nights). Then to start the new year out on the trail driving our Land Rovers, being close to nature with good friends. We drive the Mojave trail over New Years. If you are a Land Rover off road type, it seems a fitting way to end a year and a promising way to begin a new year. A Happy Christmas to all and an auspicious New year! TeriAnn From billdentin at aol.com Tue Dec 25 07:26:15 2007 From: billdentin at aol.com (billdentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 09:26:15 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... In-Reply-To: References: <122420072351.4830.4770460B00021410000012DE22193100029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: <8CA15193DED9734-CCC-761@Webmail-mg21.sysops.aol.com> Yeap...I'm a Wisconsin boy myself.? White Christmas is a given.? But three of my four children and their families live?300 miles northwest in the Twin Cities (Minnesota).? Now THAT's winter, and that's where I am.? They have two seasons.? Winter and 4th of July.? Ho ho ho. Merry Christmas and warmest holiday wishes to one and all. Bill (Damdinger)? -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Barr To: westerneagleracing at att.net Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 6:12 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Eat your heart out... I live in Door County Wisconsin which sticks out into Lake Michigan It is 25 degrees with 4 inches of fresh snow today. The previous storm we had 6 inches of wind driven snow with gusts to 50 mph and gusts to 80 mph out on the lake. I'm trying to think of why I stay here in the winter. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!! On Dec 24, 2007, at 5:51 PM, westerneagleracing at att.net wrote: > Happy Holidays to All. > > Its 60 degrees in Marin County California and if the garage was open > I would take my racing TR4 out (it is "street legal") (well it at > least has a license plate). > > Gary, are you driving the ex-Ron Jacobs TR6? > > Ron Jacobs, Western Eagle Racing > > -------------- Original message from "David W. Riddle" >: -------------- > > >> Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a >> brilliant TR6. >> >> http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 >> >> Top video on the page >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com From wgrosenbach at juno.com Tue Dec 25 08:24:20 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 08:24:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Message-ID: <20071225.082420.2508.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> >>>To Ron & all of you, a Blessed time to you all & yours. Ron, please say hello to my home town "The city by the Bay". The snow is almost melted here with a 50% chance of a dusting for Christmas day. (only in Colo.) Kev Lynch GT6 #6 RMVR Woke up to almost 4 inches of 'dust' this morning! Still snowing. Bing would be proud. Must be Santa's magic dust. Chains required. Spitfire would go through most anything with chains. Merry Christmas, Bill From kaskas at cox.net Tue Dec 25 09:03:49 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 08:03:49 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise Message-ID: <006a01c8470f$bca4d620$3f0ec548@RW> Okay, so it is not deep snow , but instead brilliant sunshine but Santa still comes this way as his new sled has wheels for certain parts of the country. .......a Merry Christmas to all and remember to pat your TR on this day. As a surprise, I have a small gift for everyone who races: This message when dissolved in 105 octane gasoline is worth 11 horsepower and another 400 rpm in top gear. Do not destroy or attempt to sell as it only applies to the original owner. ( the racing elves keep close accounting) I suggest saving this assistance until a time of real need in 2008. From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Tue Dec 25 10:59:44 2007 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:59:44 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise References: <006a01c8470f$bca4d620$3f0ec548@RW> Message-ID: <001401c8471f$ef5c6ff0$6401a8c0@Elliott> A week ago, some local rally experts were checking out the rally route for an up-coming rally to be held in January. They were driving in the Laurentian mountains (more like hills) north of Montreal (not too far from Mont Tremblant race track) and during the night, they saw 7 reindeer along the sides of the road, on top of the 8 foot high snow banks and in the snow canyon in the road that was formed by the high snowbanks. They thought that Santa Claus had come early and had lost 7/8th of his reindeer-power. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 11:03 AM Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise > Okay, so it is not deep snow , but instead brilliant sunshine but Santa > still > comes this way as his new sled has wheels for certain parts of the > country. > > .......a Merry Christmas to all and remember to pat your TR on this day. > As a > surprise, I have a small gift for everyone who races: > > This message when dissolved in 105 octane gasoline is worth 11 horsepower > and > another 400 rpm in top gear. Do not destroy or attempt to sell as it only > applies to the original owner. ( the racing elves keep close accounting) > > I suggest saving this assistance until a time of real need in 2008. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 25 11:17:34 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 10:17:34 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise References: <006a01c8470f$bca4d620$3f0ec548@RW> Message-ID: I tried to print it, but my inkjet caught fire and is now serving as a smelly replacement for the yule log. Then I tried to pat Peyote and laid my finger open on a new aluminum panel that I forgot to deburr. I don't think Peyote responds well to patting. Back to the egg nog. Note to self--doubling the amount of rum is not a good idea. No one else will drink it, and I don't like to see it go to waste... I'm not going to be able to go for a post-prandial drive, Diane has hidden all the keys. Merry, merry. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Kas Kastner Sent: Tue 12/25/2007 8:03 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise Okay, so it is not deep snow , but instead brilliant sunshine but Santa still comes this way as his new sled has wheels for certain parts of the country. .......a Merry Christmas to all and remember to pat your TR on this day. As a surprise, I have a small gift for everyone who races: This message when dissolved in 105 octane gasoline is worth 11 horsepower and another 400 rpm in top gear. Do not destroy or attempt to sell as it only applies to the original owner. ( the racing elves keep close accounting) I suggest saving this assistance until a time of real need in 2008. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 25 11:17:57 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 10:17:57 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise References: <006a01c8470f$bca4d620$3f0ec548@RW> Message-ID: On a positive note, with all these grandkids running around and guests swapping lies at the top of their voices, 110 octane eggnog is an excellent tranquilizer. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Bill Babcock Sent: Tue 12/25/2007 10:17 AM To: Kas Kastner; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Christmas surprise I tried to print it, but my inkjet caught fire and is now serving as a smelly replacement for the yule log. Then I tried to pat Peyote and laid my finger open on a new aluminum panel that I forgot to deburr. I don't think Peyote responds well to patting. Back to the egg nog. Note to self--doubling the amount of rum is not a good idea. No one else will drink it, and I don't like to see it go to waste... I'm not going to be able to go for a post-prandial drive, Diane has hidden all the keys. Merry, merry. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Kas Kastner Sent: Tue 12/25/2007 8:03 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise Okay, so it is not deep snow , but instead brilliant sunshine but Santa still comes this way as his new sled has wheels for certain parts of the country. .......a Merry Christmas to all and remember to pat your TR on this day. As a surprise, I have a small gift for everyone who races: This message when dissolved in 105 octane gasoline is worth 11 horsepower and another 400 rpm in top gear. Do not destroy or attempt to sell as it only applies to the original owner. ( the racing elves keep close accounting) I suggest saving this assistance until a time of real need in 2008. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 25 11:35:09 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 10:35:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <35717.63000.qm@web81106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> AH HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! So, thats why mine printed twice when I sent it to the printer ... patten #4 on the dash & told her I'd get her a new engine before spring ... she just purred ... Bill Babcock wrote: I tried to print it, but my inkjet caught fire and is now serving as a smelly replacement for the yule log. Then I tried to pat Peyote and laid my finger open on a new aluminum panel that I forgot to deburr. I don't think Peyote responds well to patting. Back to the egg nog. Note to self--doubling the amount of rum is not a good idea. No one else will drink it, and I don't like to see it go to waste... I'm not going to be able to go for a post-prandial drive, Diane has hidden all the keys. Merry, merry. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Kas Kastner Sent: Tue 12/25/2007 8:03 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise Okay, so it is not deep snow , but instead brilliant sunshine but Santa still comes this way as his new sled has wheels for certain parts of the country. .......a Merry Christmas to all and remember to pat your TR on this day. As a surprise, I have a small gift for everyone who races: This message when dissolved in 105 octane gasoline is worth 11 horsepower and another 400 rpm in top gear. Do not destroy or attempt to sell as it only applies to the original owner. ( the racing elves keep close accounting) I suggest saving this assistance until a time of real need in 2008. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 25 13:34:53 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:34:53 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise References: <006a01c8470f$bca4d620$3f0ec548@RW> <001401c8471f$ef5c6ff0$6401a8c0@Elliott> Message-ID: Wow, suddenly it started snowing up here on top of the hill. Big fat flakes--looks like we're in a snow globe. I think it's probably raining on the valley floor, but we're getting a blizzard. How perfect is that!?! The in-laws bailed early because our driveway is treacherous with even a dusting of snow. I don't think it's going to stick, but if it does their car would turn into a toboggan. So we're down to grandkids, my daughter and son-in-law. The noise level has decreased dramatically. I'll post some pictures on www.allaluminumtour.com: Nero with a layer of snow--how christmassy. From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Dec 25 15:31:25 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:31:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise -It really works! Message-ID: <5966644C-4733-467E-85E1-9A1FBDF2B609@earthlink.net> WOW! Does this stuff work! Printed the message and just couldn't help myself... Had to try a bit. Put 2 periods and a parenthesis in my snowmobile and went for a ride. What fun!! Seat of the snow pants says the extra power is there on demand. Ran out of guts before I ran out of straightaway to test the top end but I'm a believer. Passed some old codger out on the trail who's sled had apparently broken down - he was wearing the funniest snowmobile suit I've ever seen [all red with ridiculous white fur] and being towed by a bunch of quadrupeds one of which had a red flashing light [New Mexico law says that any vehicle being towed must display at least one flashing light]. Anyway, as I came up behind him, he looked over his right shoulder as I passed him on the left. At that point I was going so fast I don't think he ever saw me!! Great stuff Kas, I'll save the rest and use only when absolutely necessary. All the best to you, yours and all the FoT who make this list what it is. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM P.S. Going out now to give the Plum Pi a pat on the fender. From budscars at msn.com Tue Dec 25 16:12:41 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:12:41 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise -It really works! References: <5966644C-4733-467E-85E1-9A1FBDF2B609@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Woooohooo!..My bet is the Driver of the snowmobile enjoyed some Eggnog beforehand!.. Merry Christmas Great People! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg - Lunker Hilyer" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 2:31 PM Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise -It really works! > WOW! Does this stuff work! Printed the message and just couldn't help > myself... Had to try a bit. Put 2 periods and a parenthesis in my > snowmobile and went for a ride. What fun!! Seat of the snow pants > says the extra power is there on demand. Ran out of guts before I ran > out of straightaway to test the top end but I'm a believer. Passed > some old codger out on the trail who's sled had apparently broken > down - he was wearing the funniest snowmobile suit I've ever seen > [all red with ridiculous white fur] and being towed by a bunch of > quadrupeds one of which had a red flashing light [New Mexico law says > that any vehicle being towed must display at least one flashing light]. > Anyway, as I came up behind him, he looked over his right shoulder as > I passed him on the left. At that point I was going so fast I don't > think he ever saw me!! > Great stuff Kas, I'll save the rest and use only when absolutely > necessary. > All the best to you, yours and all the FoT who make this list what it > is. > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > > P.S. Going out now to give the Plum Pi a pat on the fender. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 17:04:25 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 16:04:25 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8cbd782d0712251604m6a109764w3371772ede7afde7@mail.gmail.com> Bill. thanks for the postand the advice. The advantage of adding rose jounts at the end of the a-arms is that you can adjust them to any length. On the TR6, I tried moving thebgall joint in about 3/8 inch because the DPO had welded the lower arm mount in so I could not shim it in the ususal 6 manner. Even this amount took me from 0 camber to too much [according to the temps]. Now, on bump steer. I thoughtthe theory was to keep the lwer A arm and the tie rod arm parllel. Just adjusted the streert car's sway bar. Did this with the bar completely unloaded, then dropped the front onto my wheel ramps. While adjusting the sway bar, I took the time to observe how the tie rod bolted into the steering arm. It was slanted down hill about 25-30 degrees. Indeed, the arm on the hub that the tie rod joint goes into is slandted down to accomplish this. Any idea of the "Why" of this design and if it makes sense to lessen the amount of drop. Some one of these days I will actually have most of a car ready such that I can play around with the TR6 and bunp steer. Anyone out there have any advice? On Dec 23, 2007 1:24 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 12/23/2007 12:30:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > BillB at bnj.com writes: > > > I've harped on this before, but the bump steer in these cars is horrific. > You > can work to eliminate that and have a car that works so much better you > won't > believe the difference. Once you do that you can soften those springs and > let > the suspension work some. Makes another huge difference. > > > > Amen! > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Tue Dec 25 22:42:22 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:42:22 -0800 Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" Message-ID: <000801c84782$1d3c70c0$0300000a@oemcomputer> I just finished reading the book written by Sam Moses that was mentioned Dec.15'th by Ted. It is great! I had trouble putting it down! If you liked "The Last Open Road" by Burt Levy, you will like this book!. I can not imagine the "Racer" who would not truly enjoy this read. I strongly recommend it. G reg Solow From jerrybarr at charter.net Wed Dec 26 15:16:11 2007 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:16:11 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Item listed on ebay Message-ID: <1792BEDE-C769-4140-B9E3-80A848BB3D80@charter.net> I just listed a new Quaife Torque Biasing Differential that fits the GT6, Spitfire, TR7 4 speed, Lotus 7 and austin Marina. Item # 260197230272 Thanks, Jerry Barr From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Dec 26 15:20:36 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:20:36 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers Message-ID: FoT, I need some input regarding the use of roller rockers on a race prepared TR6. If you are running a cam with .500 lift and 300 degrees duration, does the use of a higher ration roller rocker (1.65) really add that much more power? This is assuming that the head is well ported and you are running the largest intake/exhaust valves that fit in the head. I was just made aware of some engine testing recently that indicated that there was only a 2 h.p. gain by using roller rockers with the above modifications. It also indicated that the increased ratio caused more wear on the cam, tappets, etc. The logic as presented seems to be that you can only draw so much flow through the head before you get diminishing returns. Any thoughts on this? Allen Allen & Jody Washatko 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From BillB at bnj.com Wed Dec 26 15:56:52 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:56:52 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers References: Message-ID: Not that I'm trying to tell you how to suck eggs, but the primary reasons for using roller rockers are to decrease side thrust on the valve stems, reduce friction in the valve train (pin bearing in the rocker and a roller) and reduce reciprocating weight. The only way that translates into higher horsepower is to take advantage of the opportunities these factors enable. A lot of speed equipment is sold to people with no plan to take advantage of the factors the equipment was invented to improve. If your cam won't benefit from a higher rocker ratio then you won't gain anything from it. If you're not prepared to experiment with shorter intake valve guides to improve flow then the reduced side thrust won't give more horsepower, just better guide wear--which none of us care about. You can get a lot of horsepower from roller rockers, but not by bolting them on. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Allen Washatko Sent: Wed 12/26/2007 2:20 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers FoT, I need some input regarding the use of roller rockers on a race prepared TR6. If you are running a cam with .500 lift and 300 degrees duration, does the use of a higher ration roller rocker (1.65) really add that much more power? This is assuming that the head is well ported and you are running the largest intake/exhaust valves that fit in the head. I was just made aware of some engine testing recently that indicated that there was only a 2 h.p. gain by using roller rockers with the above modifications. It also indicated that the increased ratio caused more wear on the cam, tappets, etc. The logic as presented seems to be that you can only draw so much flow through the head before you get diminishing returns. Any thoughts on this? Allen Allen & Jody Washatko 1971 TR6 - Number 6 Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jsnook at wcnet.org Wed Dec 26 16:11:55 2007 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:11:55 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" References: <000801c84782$1d3c70c0$0300000a@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <007601c84814$bbbd99d0$83494c61@JeffsNotebook> OK Ted, I need this book, based upon Greg's recommendation. Loved "Last Open Road" got to try this one. Let me know how to order. Thanks, Jeff Snook www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Solow To: Friends of Triumph Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 12:42 AM Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" I just finished reading the book written by Sam Moses that was mentioned Dec.15'th by Ted. It is great! I had trouble putting it down! If you liked "The Last Open Road" by Burt Levy, you will like this book!. I can not imagine the "Racer" who would not truly enjoy this read. I strongly recommend it. G reg Solow _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Dec 26 17:12:40 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:12:40 EST Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" Message-ID: Got mine today...it is looking like a good read. Thanks Ted. Where do I send money? Joe > OK Ted, I need this book, based upon Greg's recommendation. Loved "Last > Open > Road" got to try this one. Let me know how to order. > > Thanks, > > Jeff Snook > www.snooksdreamcars.com > From Gt6steve at aol.com Wed Dec 26 17:26:44 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:26:44 EST Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" Message-ID: I was wondering the same thing? Did I miss the advert? ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Dec 26 17:41:07 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:41:07 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bill, That being said, the dyno tests involved a fully developed race engine run with stock rockers and again with roller rockers. The difference was 2 h.p. - maybe a 1-2% difference overall. Hardly close to a 10% gain as some promise as a bolt on improvement (I would assume that this figure is for a stock situation). It is clear that the pin bearing and roller will reduce friction but the increased leverage will also add more work at the tappet end. As in everything, there is a limit to improvement. As machines become more refined, the next increment of improvement usually becomes smaller and more difficult to obtain. My point in asking the original question was whether or not roller rockers really added more horsepower due to a longer valve duration assuming that all the other bases were covered - friction aside. I would assume that there is a limit to just how much air/fuel mixture you can suck through a Triumph head as fully developed as it may be. The dyno test would seem to suggest that. Allen On Dec 26, 2007, at 4:56 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Not that I'm trying to tell you how to suck eggs, but the primary > reasons for > using roller rockers are to decrease side thrust on the valve stems, > reduce > friction in the valve train (pin bearing in the rocker and a roller) > and > reduce reciprocating weight. The only way that translates into higher > horsepower is to take advantage of the opportunities these factors > enable. A > lot of speed equipment is sold to people with no plan to take > advantage of the > factors the equipment was invented to improve. If your cam won't > benefit from > a higher rocker ratio then you won't gain anything from it. If you're > not > prepared to experiment with shorter intake valve guides to improve > flow then > the reduced side thrust won't give more horsepower, just better guide > wear--which none of us care about. > > You can get a lot of horsepower from roller rockers, but not by > bolting them > on. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Allen > Washatko > Sent: Wed 12/26/2007 2:20 PM > To: Friends of Triumph > Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers > > FoT, > > I need some input regarding the use of roller rockers on a race > prepared TR6. If you are running a cam with .500 lift and 300 degrees > duration, does the use of a higher ration roller rocker (1.65) really > add that much more power? This is assuming that the head is well ported > and you are running the largest intake/exhaust valves that fit in the > head. I was just made aware of some engine testing recently that > indicated that there was only a 2 h.p. gain by using roller rockers > with the above modifications. It also indicated that the increased > ratio caused more wear on the cam, tappets, etc. The logic as presented > seems to be that you can only draw so much flow through the head > before you get diminishing returns. Any thoughts on this? > > Allen > > > Allen & Jody Washatko > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Dec 26 18:18:26 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:18:26 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers on TR6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200712270118.lBR1IfKl333687@ns3.geneseo.net> Roller rockers are subject to a lot of debate, aren't they? I've not seen actual dyno numbers that are meaningful, but I'd like to. My two cents is based on flow bench readings. What I have seen is that flow increases with valve lift at an expected rate until you get to between .500 and .600 lift. The heads I've done maxed out on flow at between those two numbers, with only 3 to 4 cfm increase in flow when increasing it above .500 lift. It appears that the rest of the intake tract, namely port shape and valve size, reach their limits before valve lift becomes limiting. It's a different story if you compare flow rates of solid vs. roller rockers on a stock cam. In that situation, the max lift on a stock cam is much lower so roller rockers give more of an advantage. From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Dec 26 18:21:19 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:21:19 -0600 Subject: [Fot] further on roller rockers Message-ID: <200712270121.lBR1LX7c365115@ns3.geneseo.net> I talked with one manufacturer of roller rockers at the last PRI show who said that their high speed filming of roller rocker action showed that the roller actually slides across the end of the valve as opposed to rolling, as we would expect. Interesting, huh? uncle jack From budscars at msn.com Wed Dec 26 18:49:13 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:49:13 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD Message-ID: Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on Ebay...Even if you have no intention of buying anything..It's worth looking at for the aesthetic value..I have had it for close to 20 years., and the story behind it is great.I listed it previously, at a higher price.. my Ebay user name is budscarco the dash is item #120182115060 Racer Bud From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Dec 26 19:05:31 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:05:31 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers on TR6 In-Reply-To: <200712270118.lBR1IfKl333687@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200712270118.lBR1IfKl333687@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <85599736ebdaebc7ec44b5bd69d90cd4@wi.rr.com> Jack, Do you know what the cfm flow rate was up to .500 lift? It would be interesting to know the percentage of change. The test I was mentioning found the same to be true - that lift over .500 had a diminishing return on h.p. due to flow. Thanks for your valuable input. Allen On Dec 26, 2007, at 7:18 PM, Jack W. Drews wrote: > Roller rockers are subject to a lot of debate, aren't they? I've not > seen actual dyno numbers that are meaningful, but I'd like to. > > My two cents is based on flow bench readings. > > What I have seen is that flow increases with valve lift at an > expected rate until you get to between .500 and .600 lift. The heads > I've done maxed out on flow at between those two numbers, with only > 3 to 4 cfm increase in flow when increasing it above .500 lift. It > appears that the rest of the intake tract, namely port shape and > valve size, reach their limits before valve lift becomes limiting. > > It's a different story if you compare flow rates of solid vs. roller > rockers on a stock cam. In that situation, the max lift on a stock > cam is much lower so roller rockers give more of an advantage. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From BillB at bnj.com Wed Dec 26 19:22:00 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:22:00 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers on TR6 References: <200712270118.lBR1IfKl333687@ns3.geneseo.net> <85599736ebdaebc7ec44b5bd69d90cd4@wi.rr.com> Message-ID: This got bounced for being over the limit. 4KB indeed. I type with BOTH hands. >>The benefit of reducing rocker friction isn't overall engine efficiency, just as reducing the rocker weight isn't an overall weight reduction issue. Skip that second donut and you'd be way ahead for a lot less money. It's all about making life easier for the tappet, camshaft, and the valve so that you can either make the head flow better or rev the engine higher. So to answer the original question as succinctly as possible, you can do much, much better than 2% with roller rockers if the overall engine has been designed to have roller rockers. If not, then you won't. A high performance racing engine designed for standard rockers probably won't benefit from roller rockers to a large degree. But a good cam designer knowing exactly what's going to be in the engine can shape a more radical profile for a roller rocker than a stock one, accelerating the valve more harshly, and holding it at maximum lift longer. Just as they can if they know you're going to have roller followers (only moreso). The head porting guy that knows you're using a roller rocker with properly and precisely set valve geometry can eliminate the valve guide from the intake port, knowing that the remaining stub is going to be enough. As with any other flowing system, as the valve gets open further, it has less influence on flow. Its why you don't use a gate valve to throttle and why carbs flow about the same from 3/4 to full opening. It's pretty well understood that the value of the higher rocker ratio isn't really ultimate lift, it's acceleration during the early part of the opening cycle. Given that rocker ratio doesn't influence duration of the cam, or the point that it begins to open, it does have an effect on early flow since the valve is accelerating faster. The problem with conversing with me about this is that I'm re-reading the Engine Builder's Handbook, and trying to translate all the great V8 knowledge in that book to puny tractor motors. A frustrating practice that makes it impossible for me to look at any individual part without considering the entire system. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Allen Washatko Sent: Wed 12/26/2007 4:41 PM To: Bill Babcock; Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Roller Rockers Bill, That being said, the dyno tests involved a fully developed race engine run with stock rockers and again with roller rockers. The difference was 2 h.p. - maybe a 1-2% difference overall. Hardly close to a 10% gain as some promise as a bolt on improvement (I would assume that this figure is for a stock situation). It is clear that the pin bearing and roller will reduce friction but the increased leverage will also add more work at the tappet end. As in everything, there is a limit to improvement. As machines become more refined, the next increment of improvement usually becomes smaller and more difficult to obtain. My point in asking the original question was whether or not roller rockers really added more horsepower due to a longer valve duration assuming that all the other bases were covered - friction aside. I would assume that there is a limit to just how much air/fuel mixture you can suck through a Triumph head as fully developed as it may be. The dyno test would seem to suggest that. Allen From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 26 19:42:42 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:42:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Roller rockers Message-ID: While everyone seems obsessed with lift, the real secrets guarded by cam designers is the interaction between duration and lobe center angles. Then you need to figure out how they interact with lift. Look at: http://triumph.hottr6.com/CamBasics.html Shane Ingate, looking for a 4x4 diesel hauler, in NM _________________________________________________________________ im is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real people making a difference. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect From cak at dimebank.com Wed Dec 26 19:50:43 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:50:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers Message-ID: <200712270250.lBR2ohAX015408@moose.dimebank.com> Not to flog a dead horse further, but there are two different things going on here, lumped together as "roller rockers". 1. The interface of the rocker tip to the valve. 2. The rocker ratio. They both have benefits and requirements - but you're only going to see the benefit of #1 on the flow bench (for example). So .. which aspect were you after? From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Dec 26 20:49:43 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:49:43 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers Message-ID: <6079ec4f3d59e1c71dda4e7c4768abca@wi.rr.com> Bill, Got it. I think what both Jack and the test I referred to found, was that head flow was the limiting factor at least for Triumphs. V8's are certainly another story. I'm running a fully ported head with greatly reduced valve guides and profiled 5/16" SS valves. It will be interesting to see what results we get. I'll make a full report next spring. Thanks for the attention. Allen Allen & Jody Washatko 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Wed Dec 26 21:05:20 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:05:20 EST Subject: [Fot] Looking for some things for my new racer Message-ID: I am looking for a couple of 15 x 6 Panasports, a Halon fire system (Prefer entire kit), Kevlar brake pads & shoes, Holley fuel pressure regulator rebuild kit and any spares, front wheel stub axle and spacer kit (Uncle Jack's), magafluxed, nitrided & polished Crankshaft, etc. Thanks, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From Herald948 at aol.com Wed Dec 26 21:17:50 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:17:50 EST Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD Message-ID: In a message dated 12/26/2007 8:49:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, budscars at msn.com writes: Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on Ebay...Even if you have no intention of buying anything..It's worth looking at for the aesthetic value..I have had it for close to 20 years., and the story behind it is great.I listed it previously, at a higher price.. my Ebay user name is budscarco the dash is item #120182115060 MAN, do I wish I had a TR4 right about now...far out! --Andy Mace (still a hippie at heart) *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From triumphs at consolidated.net Wed Dec 26 22:01:34 2007 From: triumphs at consolidated.net (Ken Gano palm top) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:01:34 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would like to buy it, just to donate it to the VTR auction next year :) Kg -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+triumphs=consolidated.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+triumphs=consolidated.net at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 10:18 PM To: budscars at msn.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In a message dated 12/26/2007 8:49:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, budscars at msn.com writes: Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on Ebay...Even if you have no intention of buying anything..It's worth looking at for the aesthetic value..I have had it for close to 20 years., and the story behind it is great.I listed it previously, at a higher price.. my Ebay user name is budscarco the dash is item #120182115060 MAN, do I wish I had a TR4 right about now...far out! --Andy Mace (still a hippie at heart) *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1198 - Release Date: 12/26/2007 5:26 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1198 - Release Date: 12/26/2007 5:26 PM From mark at bradakis.com Wed Dec 26 23:00:19 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:00:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" In-Reply-To: <000801c84782$1d3c70c0$0300000a@oemcomputer> References: <000801c84782$1d3c70c0$0300000a@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <47733F73.2070201@bradakis.com> Got my copy today, haven't started reading it yet. Too much computer stuff to catch up on first! mjb. From dave at microworks.net Thu Dec 27 01:31:43 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 01:31:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Anybody coming to Arizona for the Double National? Message-ID: <20071227083615.KJV18667.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Is anybody on the list(s) coming out to Arizona to run the SCCA Double National or Restricted Regional in January? If it is your first trip to PIR I have a track map with the traditional "line" overlaid on this page: http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=52 Scroll down to find PIR. I also did the other tracks here in Phoenix too if you come out to run these tracks. Click on the Thumbnail to view a LARGE image. From jerrybarr at charter.net Thu Dec 27 07:06:26 2007 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:06:26 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Quaife TBD Message-ID: Hi FOT Folks I received a question from a potential bidder today asking if there were any problems when installing the Quaife unit using a 3.27 GT6 differential. I never tried a 3.27 ring gear, I did try a 3.89 and it worked fine. Anybody have idea? Thanks, Jerry Barr In the North Woods From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Dec 27 08:15:23 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:15:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Dec 2007, RACER BUD wrote: > Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on Ebay...Even if > you have no intention of buying anything..It's worth looking at for the > aesthetic value..I have had it for close to 20 years., and the story behind it > is great.I listed it previously, at a higher price.. my Ebay user name is > budscarco the dash is item #120182115060 > Racer Bud Was the car in a Cheech and Chong movie? Rasta-TR, mon. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lunkercars at earthlink.net Thu Dec 27 09:02:46 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:02:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Perhaps the buyer would be interested in one of my many sets of hallucinogenic gauges. You know... The type that show 84MPH in 1st gear, 157 mpg, a steady 50 psi of oil press [even with engine out of the car] and the perpetual full tank on gas. Greg On Dec 26, 2007, at 6:49 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on > Ebay...Even if > you have no intention of buying anything..It's worth looking at for > the > aesthetic value..I have had it for close to 20 years., and the > story behind it > is great.I listed it previously, at a higher price.. my Ebay user > name is > budscarco the dash is item #120182115060 > Racer Bud > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From herald948 at aol.com Thu Dec 27 09:02:36 2007 From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:02:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA16B908A202CA-8A8-FD6@FWM-M05.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Robert Lang On Wed, 26 Dec 2007, RACER BUD wrote: > Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on Ebay... Was the car in a Cheech and Chong movie? Rasta-TR, mon. ==AM== I've smoked a Triumph dashboard or two over the years, but it usually was due to a bad electrical connection. (rimshot) (runs and hides) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com From dave at microworks.net Thu Dec 27 09:59:55 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:59:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Added braking zones... Message-ID: <20071227170422.DRRE18667.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> It was mentioned that someone would like to see the braking zones on the track maps. Added them... http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=52 From RYoung at navcomtech.com Thu Dec 27 10:40:41 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:40:41 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard > on Ebay... So are the candle & Grateful Dead shirt included ??? fdpnmailgwapp1.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From RYoung at navcomtech.com Thu Dec 27 10:48:01 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:48:01 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Roller rockers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Look at: > http://triumph.hottr6.com/CamBasics.html Shane, I particularly enjoyed this revelation : "A red hot cam will produce less power than the factory cam if intake, exhaust, compression, etc are all modified to accommodate the cam. " Somehow, I think there is a word or two missing somewhere ... or were you just warning of the dangers of an overheated cam shaft ? Randall fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From cak at dimebank.com Thu Dec 27 10:54:57 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:54:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Quaife TBD Message-ID: <200712271754.lBRHsvMA026384@moose.dimebank.com> > I received a question from a potential bidder today asking if there > were any problems when installing the Quaife unit using a 3.27 GT6 > differential. I never tried a 3.27 ring gear, I did try a 3.89 and it > worked fine. Anybody have idea? It won't fit. From hottr6 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 27 14:08:39 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 16:08:39 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Roller rockers Message-ID: Randall, Yeah, I'm full of it. Glad you caught my faux pas. Shane PS Looking at a 2007 GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax 4x4. > Look at: > http://triumph.hottr6.com/CamBasics.html Shane, I particularly enjoyed this revelation : "A red hot cam will produce less power than the factory cam if intake, exhaust, compression, etc are all modified to accommodate the cam. " Somehow, I think there is a word or two missing somewhere ... or were you just warning of the dangers of an overheated cam shaft ? _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ From rikrock at aol.com Thu Dec 27 14:30:05 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 16:30:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications In-Reply-To: References: <000601c84591$aefaddf0$0301000a@Chowdown> <200712241931.lBOJV9b4270273@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <8CA16E6C8429A6F-8A4-12A7@FWM-D13.sysops.aol.com> Bill, Good stuff, thanks!? Would you (or anyone else)?please explain?exactly how to fix the TR3 bumpsteer? Thanks! Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com From chris at tr4-racing.de Thu Dec 27 14:38:42 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:38:42 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Quaife TBD Message-ID: <003701c848d0$da94ee50$c1fefea9@HOME> I would say with a 3.27 ringgear you don't need a LDS because the engine won't be strong enough to spin the wheels. Cheers Chris From roadandtrack at bigpond.com Thu Dec 27 20:32:16 2007 From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:32:16 +1000 Subject: [Fot] crankshaft steel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071228033216.IFFO7061.oaamta04sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01> Can anyone confirm the steel grades used in 2500 cranks. I believe the later ones were EN23. what about early TR5/TR6 ones , the crossed drilled type with plugs in it?? Thanks Terry O'Beirne From BillB at bnj.com Thu Dec 27 20:44:03 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:44:03 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Magazine coming along nicely Message-ID: My new eMagazine is coming along nicely. I've built a lot of pretty handy technology into the back end that enables me to manage both feature stories that will be updated monthly and topical news that gets updated whenever. It has form systems that allow readers to upload photos, articles and video as well as the ability to have "reporters" file complete stories--ready to go after editorial approval (that would be me). I've learned and/or relearned a lot of stuff about programming and building web systems getting this going. Lots of fun. And it's nice to know that even though I turn 61 in about a week that I can still learn new things. Too bad though that I forget them by the next day. Now what was that URL? Ah, yes... www.kenalu.com My brother Bob is doing a pretty cool thing with YouTube--building compilations of excellent videos. Click the play button on the "Bob's Featured Videos" section to see how that works. I'm thinking about launching a similar magazine for vintage racing. Maybe a really technical one. Now that I've got the template built it's pretty easy to do one for anything. From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Dec 27 21:47:03 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:47:03 -0600 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) Message-ID: <4ca5a847b8583ad77f2a47e463790302@wi.rr.com> FoT, Anybody driving west past or near Chicago/Milwaukee from the east coast who could stop near Reading, PA. and pick up some TR6 body panels? There must be at least a half dozen trips like this in the planning! I won't hold my breath but it's always worth asking. Allen Allen & Jody Washatko 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From tedtsimx at bright.net Fri Dec 28 06:13:59 2007 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 08:13:59 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4774F697.20609@bright.net> Allen Washatko wrote: > FoT, > > I need some input regarding the use of roller rockers on a race > prepared TR6. If you are running a cam with .500 lift and 300 degrees > duration, does the use of a higher ration roller rocker (1.65) really > add that much more power? This is assuming that the head is well ported > and you are running the largest intake/exhaust valves that fit in the > head. I was just made aware of some engine testing recently that > indicated that there was only a 2 h.p. gain by using roller rockers > with the above modifications. It also indicated that the increased > ratio caused more wear on the cam, tappets, etc. The logic as presented > seems to be that you can only draw so much flow through the head > before you get diminishing returns. Any thoughts on this? > > Allen > > > Allen & Jody Washatko > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > Allen, Bill B.is correct. The big advantage to roller rockers is reduction of valve stem/valve guide wear. High ratio rockers for your car - 1.65 - greatly increase valve train strain and wear. Even the fastest TR6 in current SCCA Production form is only runing 1.55. We sell a goodly number of roller rockers and do not recomend or sell the 1.65.for your application. Jack Drew's comment about filming roller rocker tips certainly has merit. But, at what enginespeed. The engines in our cars, othe than the small Spit engines, don't see 8500 - 9000 rpm. Ted -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 From walt at hot-tr6.com Fri Dec 28 10:42:20 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:42:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 barn find Message-ID: <20071228174344.10F5B187A81@autox.team.net> just when you think all the interesting cars have been picked over I acquired a 1974 TR6 yesterday. It was parked inside close to where I live for the past 12 years. The floor pans are rusty but the frame appears very solid.I don't look at it as a restoration candidate but more of a source of parts for my TR6 racecar project etc. It has 84,000 miles on it and a straight four speed transmission. Both front fenders and the bonnet are banged up but both doors and the rear clip appear good. The front bumper is missing but the rear is in very good condition. Steel wheels, complete engine that still turns over-carbs, air cleaner box etc. I have a clean New Mexico and all I.D. tags. (wink wink- no emissions test) The original color is red. I have some digital pictures that I can forward if needed. If any FOT members could use anything off of this car please contact me. My direct email is: walt at hot-tr6.com My phone number is 1 505 362-4350 Thank You Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, New Mexico From tedtsimx at bright.net Fri Dec 28 13:16:14 2007 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:16:14 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fast Guy's Rich Guy's & Idiots by Sam Moses Message-ID: <4775598E.6020702@bright.net> FOT members, several people have inquired about this book. Her is a copy of my original posting. Obviously the Christmas gift reference is well past but everything else is correct. Thanks for your time. Ted Greetings FOT list community. Here is a Christmas gift idea that also benefits FOT. A friend of mine, Sam Moses, wrote a book in 1986 called "Fast Guys, Rich Guys and Idiots". A chronicle of Sam's racing season. Sam was the motor sports editor for Sports Illustrated. Later on he became associate editor of AutoWeek. "Fast Guys" was sold out in 9 months and not reprinted. Sam has reprinted his book. The book sells for $21.95. But, Sam personalized a group of books for us. These are selling for $24.95 each. Postage approximately $4.75 by priority mail and should reach you in time for Christmas. $3 from each sale will go to the FOT coffers. Buy early, buy often. The following writeup sums up the book very well. I read the book in 1986 when it first came out and liked what I saw about Sam's competitive attitude. A phone call to Sam and 2 months later, he and I won a 24 hour showroom stock race. The write-up below is from the publisher. Thanks for your time. Ted Sam Moses, a motorsports writer for Sports Illustrated, was assigned to go racing and write about what happened. Fast Guys, Rich Guys, and Idiots is a personal odyssey that peers over the cliff of change and into the pit of obsession. From small-time races to glittery grands prix, it lays bare the greed, lust, and desperation of every driver for time behind the wheel and a faster car. It explains the perfectionism behind taking a turn at the limit and describes the intoxicating thrill of stealing down the Daytona backstraight at nearly two hundred miles an hour. The core of Mose's story takes place in the heartland of stock car racing, there he finds a spot on a team in Ether, North Carolina. The team's owner is a tough Louisiana oil man, its crew chief a lanky, laconic Texan, and its number-one driver a hairy-chested leadfoot who learned fast driving on backwoods Georgia roads, delivering beauty supplies in his Mustang. Crashes echo throughout the tale that follows, five of them the author's own. Sam Moses was a staff writer for Sports Illustrated for seventeen years on the motorsports beat. He worked as deputy editor at AutoWeek and received automotive journalisms prestigious Ken Purdy Award. He is the author of At All Costs: How a Crippled Ship and Two American Merchant Mariners Reversed the Tide of World War II. A candid, often hilarious account of [Mosess] experiences on the tracks, in the garages and in the gasoline alleys of the racing worldbut especially memorable is the wild variety of characters Moses met along the way. The book might have been written twenty years ago, but racing is still populated by fast guys, rich guys, and idiots.Brock Yates, Wall Street Journal -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 From m-syork at comcast.net Fri Dec 28 23:58:39 2007 From: m-syork at comcast.net (Mark York) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:58:39 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: <000001c849e8$3e4dde30$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Amici Is there any advantage to add a breather to the stock valve cover on a TR3 or early TR4 engine? I've read articles that small block V8s "breathe easier, hinting that performance is increased, is this an old wives tale or is there some benefit to be gained? Thank you Mark From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Sat Dec 29 00:26:21 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 23:26:21 -0800 Subject: [Fot] FF Dynamics FFD-LSD conversion kit Message-ID: <000001c849ec$1c79e840$b1191718@computer> Does anyone know anything about the limited slip differential FF Dynamics FFD-LSD conversion kit? I see that they are on Ebay for $165 plus $10 shipping. That seems pretty reasonable if they are any good. Jim in Sacramento Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Sat Dec 29 00:42:18 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 23:42:18 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Wanted - Double or triple carb set up for a TR6 Message-ID: <000401c849ee$56a0c500$b1191718@computer> Does anyone have or know of a used double or triple Weber carb set up for a TR6 that is for sale? Thanks, Jim Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From mark at bradakis.com Sat Dec 29 00:47:23 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:47:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Magazine coming along nicely In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4775FB8B.2000505@bradakis.com> > It has form systems that allow readers to upload photos, articles and video > That reminds me I really need to get busy and get the Team.Net stuff at http://www.team.net/the-local updated and working better. It has all sorts of features like these, but very few folks actually use it. It could be quite a bit more useful and entertaining than just this plain old text based email stuff. And if enough folks visited and actually clicked on the the various Google ad links so that Team.Net made more than the 10 - 20 cents a day it currently brings in, I could stop doing my annual begging drives to cover my out of pocket expenses! Fresh web pages are yet another winter project for the coming year, like getting the TR7 coupe ready for the road, Killer's fresh motor, redoing the roll cage, rebuilding the diff, getting rid of the big van and the old Honda, working on the little truck, the cookbook plans, parts on EBay and so on and on and on. Boy, it will be January soon, I better start getting ready for the Beach Party coming up February 23rd! mjb. From spitlist at cox.net Sat Dec 29 09:21:56 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 09:21:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FF Dynamics FFD-LSD conversion kit In-Reply-To: <000001c849ec$1c79e840$b1191718@computer> References: <000001c849ec$1c79e840$b1191718@computer> Message-ID: <000301c84a36$ee3d18d0$0202a8c0@newcomputer> Jim, L00king at the listings that the company has, it appears that their products are just another variation of the "Phantom Grip" LSD that uses spring force against the sides of the gears in the differential to restrict their movement. I have tried the Phantom grip and can truthfully say that I found very little difference in performance versus the open diff. My recommendation is to save your money and put it toward a real limited slip diff. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jim hearn Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 12:26 AM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] FF Dynamics FFD-LSD conversion kit Does anyone know anything about the limited slip differential FF Dynamics FFD-LSD conversion kit? I see that they are on Ebay for $165 plus $10 shipping. That seems pretty reasonable if they are any good. Jim in Sacramento Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sat Dec 29 10:02:34 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 09:02:34 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <000001c849e8$3e4dde30$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: No idea. I've always had a breather on mine so I couldn't say what the result would be of eliminating it, but I suspect the gasket might leak worse than it already does. The stock TR3s have a breather, in that the oil fill cap isn't sealed. Of course Tech generally won't let you do that with an engine that's to be raced on a track. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Mark York Sent: Fri 12/28/2007 10:58 PM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Amici Is there any advantage to add a breather to the stock valve cover on a TR3 or early TR4 engine? I've read articles that small block V8s "breathe easier, hinting that performance is increased, is this an old wives tale or is there some benefit to be gained? Thank you Mark Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sat Dec 29 10:23:54 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 09:23:54 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <000001c849e8$3e4dde30$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: <006e01c84a3f$968eb8b0$3f0ec548@RW> The oil pan pressure goes into the head and valve cover, and chances are with no way out, will liberate itself by blowing out under the gasket and around the oil filler cap. Even with the 1" minimum breather on the block, you still need the one on the valve cover, not just a little 1/2" hose either. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Mark York" ; Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > No idea. I've always had a breather on mine so I couldn't say what the > result > would be of eliminating it, but I suspect the gasket might leak worse than > it > already does. The stock TR3s have a breather, in that the oil fill cap > isn't > sealed. Of course Tech generally won't let you do that with an engine > that's > to be raced on a track. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Mark York > Sent: Fri 12/28/2007 10:58 PM > To: FOT at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather > > Amici > > Is there any advantage to add a breather to the stock valve cover on a TR3 > or early TR4 engine? I've read articles that small block V8s "breathe > easier, hinting that performance is increased, is this an old wives tale > or > is there some benefit to be gained? > > Thank you > > Mark > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Sat Dec 29 12:08:57 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 12:08:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> What ever happened to the practice of creating a Venturi at the outlet of the exhaust header and feeding the crankcase vent line to it, to draw crankcase gasses out? Used to see that a lot on V-8s @ the drag races Bill From tony at tonydrews.com Sat Dec 29 12:25:40 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:25:40 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. - Tony At 01:08 PM 12/29/2007, William G Rosenbach wrote: >What ever happened to the practice of creating a Venturi at the outlet of >the exhaust header and feeding the crankcase vent line to it, to draw >crankcase gasses out? >Used to see that a lot on V-8s @ the drag races >Bill >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vintage.racer at comcast.net Sat Dec 29 15:39:53 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 14:39:53 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Car Quote Message-ID: <000a01c84a6b$bbd6c5f0$338451d0$@racer@comcast.net> >From the February 2008 issue of Road & Track, Jay Leno, when asked to describe the new 2008 Corvette: ".the greatest value for speed is the motorcycle. You can get an $11,000 Kawasaki ZX14 that goes almost to 200mph. It is governed at 186. It does 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. The next greatest value is the Corvette Z06, at $65,000. To me, I always get annoyed at these people who say, "Oh, I don't like the interior." Well, shut up! Go get a living room set then. What do you want to pay for? Do you want to pay for performance or do you want to pay for faux carbon fiber and all that other nonsense?" That's a car guy after my own heart! Gary From gp89 at charter.net Sat Dec 29 16:45:06 2007 From: gp89 at charter.net (gp89 at charter.net) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 15:45:06 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Car Quote In-Reply-To: <000a01c84a6b$bbd6c5f0$338451d0$@racer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20071229184506.EA6K9.271031.root@fepweb16> The first ZX14's weren't governed:) The salesgirl told me I would get killed if I bought one. The thing was a monster. 60-150 something in a couple of seconds more. The adrenalin rush lasted for hours. I didn't buy it, she was probably right. Jeff Senty ---- Gary Horstkorta wrote: > >From the February 2008 issue of Road & Track, Jay Leno, when asked to > describe the new 2008 Corvette: > > > > ".the greatest value for speed is the motorcycle. You can get an $11,000 > Kawasaki ZX14 that goes almost to 200mph. It is governed at 186. It does > 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. The next greatest value is the Corvette Z06, at > $65,000. To me, I always get annoyed at these people who say, "Oh, I don't > like the interior." Well, shut up! Go get a living room set then. What do > you want to pay for? Do you want to pay for performance or do you want to > pay for faux carbon fiber and all that other nonsense?" That's a car guy > after my own heart! > > > > Gary > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gp89 at charter.net Sat Dec 29 16:49:37 2007 From: gp89 at charter.net (gp89 at charter.net) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 15:49:37 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Car Quote Message-ID: <20071229184937.OWDV4.271150.root@fepweb16> The first ZX14's weren't governed:) The salesgirl told me I would get killed if I bought one. The thing was a monster. 60-150 something in a couple of seconds more. The adrenalin rush lasted for hours. I didn't buy it, she was probably right. Jeff Senty ---- Gary Horstkorta wrote: > >From the February 2008 issue of Road & Track, Jay Leno, when asked to > describe the new 2008 Corvette: > > > > ".the greatest value for speed is the motorcycle. You can get an $11,000 > Kawasaki ZX14 that goes almost to 200mph. It is governed at 186. It does > 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. The next greatest value is the Corvette Z06, at > $65,000. To me, I always get annoyed at these people who say, "Oh, I don't > like the interior." Well, shut up! Go get a living room set then. What do > you want to pay for? Do you want to pay for performance or do you want to > pay for faux carbon fiber and all that other nonsense?" That's a car guy > after my own heart! > > > > Gary > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jhassall at blacksburg.net Sat Dec 29 17:30:01 2007 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:30:01 -0800 Subject: [Fot] wideband fuel-air monitor recommendation? Message-ID: <4776E689.30507@blacksburg.net> I'm in the market for a wideband fuel-air monitor to tune my Webers. I'd appreciate recommendations or brands to avoid. TIA jim -- J.C. Hassall Blacksburg VA '64 TR4 in autox preparation 95% finished, 90% to go From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sat Dec 29 19:38:45 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:38:45 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: <20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> <20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> Message-ID: I did this with my TR4 and have the exhaust system venturi system scavenging positive pressure from the engine crankcase and rocker cover, via the upper portion of the catch can. Works a treat. Peter V TR-4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony Drews Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2007 6:26 AM To: William G Rosenbach Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. - Tony At 01:08 PM 12/29/2007, William G Rosenbach wrote: >What ever happened to the practice of creating a Venturi at the outlet of >the exhaust header and feeding the crankcase vent line to it, to draw >crankcase gasses out? >Used to see that a lot on V-8s @ the drag races >Bill >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From JWoesvra at aol.com Sat Dec 29 19:52:00 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 21:52:00 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/29/2007 2:26:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tony at tonydrews.com writes: Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. This would pass tech at an SVRA event. I think it is a viable device and once used a similar idea in a BMC Fomula jr. However, in that case the car had a faulty rear main seal design (BMC) that always leaked on the clutch. We put a scavenger tube in the bell housing and ran it to the exhaust header. It sucked up whatever came out and burned it up in the exhaust. I see nothing against the our rules if you vent the valve cover this way, unless you start smoking so bad that it is a nuisance. That call is always up to the Chief Steward. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 29 21:06:39 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 23:06:39 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: <388111BF.60380574.00159EE9@cs.com> Thanks, Jack W. This is good to hear as it has always made great sense to me and my TR4. Especially in a TR3/4 engine, with no apparent downside. As a result, I have never used the lip seal conversion...dont need to. Joe A. >In a message dated 12/29/2007 2:26:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >tony at tonydrews.com writes: > >Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. > > >This would pass tech at an SVRA event. I think it is a viable device and >once used a similar idea in a BMC Fomula jr. > >However, in that case the car had a faulty rear main seal design (BMC) that >always leaked on the clutch. We put a scavenger tube in the bell housing and >ran it to the exhaust header. It sucked up whatever came out and burned it up >in the exhaust. > >I see nothing against the our rules if you vent the valve cover this way, >unless you start smoking so bad that it is a nuisance. > >That call is always up to the Chief Steward. > >Jack Woehrle >SVRA Technical Director > > > > >**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes >(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jmwagner at greenheart.com Sat Dec 29 21:19:34 2007 From: jmwagner at greenheart.com (Justin Wagner) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 20:19:34 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47771C56.8040100@greenheart.com> I have to wonder.... interesting topic.... I kept on thinking of ways to put positive pressure in the bell housing.... to assist the rear seal of my TR4A, etc... I even thought about running a tube from the front of the car, to take advantage of the positive pressure there.... and I figured some cool air there wouldn't hurt... Here, you say you put a scavenger tube in the bell housing.... I have to wonder... while I trust it did, indeed, suck up anything that came out.... might it not also have drawn oil through the rear seal? Just thinking aloud here.... --Justin JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/29/2007 2:26:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >tony at tonydrews.com writes: > >Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. > > >This would pass tech at an SVRA event. I think it is a viable device and >once used a similar idea in a BMC Fomula jr. > >However, in that case the car had a faulty rear main seal design (BMC) that >always leaked on the clutch. We put a scavenger tube in the bell housing and >ran it to the exhaust header. It sucked up whatever came out and burned it up >in the exhaust. > >I see nothing against the our rules if you vent the valve cover this way, >unless you start smoking so bad that it is a nuisance. > >That call is always up to the Chief Steward. > >Jack Woehrle >SVRA Technical Director > > > > >**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes >(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From JWoesvra at aol.com Sun Dec 30 06:56:04 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 08:56:04 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/29/2007 11:19:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jmwagner at greenheart.com writes: I have to wonder... while I trust it did, indeed, suck up anything that came out.... might it not also have drawn oil through the rear seal? Just thinking aloud here.... The bell housing wasn't sealed so there was no vacuum to suck oil out. The tube just collected the little bit that ran to the bottom. Jack **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From BillDentin at aol.com Sun Dec 30 08:02:15 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:02:15 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/30/2007 7:58:05 AM Central Standard Time, JWoesvra at aol.com writes: The bell housing wasn't sealed so there was no vacuum to suck oil out. The tube just collected the little bit that ran to the bottom. Jack... You're a fart smeller...I mean...smart feller! Bill (Damdinger) **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From spreiss at verizon.net Sat Dec 29 18:24:14 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 12:24:14 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> <20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Do you mean "...exhaust venturi scavenging positive pressure from engine crankcase, and rocker cover venting via the vent on the catch can?" I always thought the crank case and valve cover vents acted in tandem to allow the engine to breathe in both directions. If a vacuum is applied to both, wouldn't that cause a vapor lock? I also thought that the crank case breather tube was designed to draw out the "vapor" when the vehicle was moving, with increased vacuum at speed. I believe that when a closed system was required by emmission control regulations, the pop-off valve was employed to direct venting to the intake manifold when the vehicle is stationary, and to the carbon canister when the vehicle is in motion. Please correct me if I am wrong. (Was replacement of the carbon canister a part of scheduled maintenance?) Steve P ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Vucinic" To: "'Tony Drews'" ; "'William G Rosenbach'" Cc: Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > I did this with my TR4 and have the exhaust system venturi system scavenging > positive pressure from the engine crankcase and rocker cover, via the upper > portion of the catch can. Works a treat. > > Peter V > TR-4 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Tony Drews > Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2007 6:26 AM > To: William G Rosenbach > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > > Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. > > - Tony > > At 01:08 PM 12/29/2007, William G Rosenbach wrote: > >What ever happened to the practice of creating a Venturi at the outlet of > >the exhaust header and feeding the crankcase vent line to it, to draw > >crankcase gasses out? > >Used to see that a lot on V-8s @ the drag races > >Bill > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Sun Dec 30 10:33:46 2007 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 12:33:46 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <000001c849e8$3e4dde30$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: <025001c84b0a$23eadd90$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Hi all, here's my nickles worth (2 cents won't buy much anymore!). It was a slow day and I was looking through the "08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. A consideration if you do SCCA. Happy New Year Bill Tobin TR6 Vintage Guy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark York" To: Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:58 AM Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather > Amici > > Is there any advantage to add a breather to the stock valve cover on a TR3 > or early TR4 engine? I've read articles that small block V8s "breathe > easier, hinting that performance is increased, is this an old wives tale or > is there some benefit to be gained? > > Thank you > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sun Dec 30 11:27:17 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 05:27:17 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: <002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> <20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> <002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: Steve, Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Exhaust venture scavenging from engine. What you say is true, if the system was a closed circuit. However, the catch can is open to atmosphere. E.g. has a filter fitted to the top of the can. Peter V -----Original Message----- From: Steven Preiss [mailto:spreiss at verizon.net] Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2007 12:24 PM To: Peter Vucinic; 'Tony Drews'; 'William G Rosenbach' Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Do you mean "...exhaust venturi scavenging positive pressure from engine crankcase, and rocker cover venting via the vent on the catch can?" I always thought the crank case and valve cover vents acted in tandem to allow the engine to breathe in both directions. If a vacuum is applied to both, wouldn't that cause a vapor lock? I also thought that the crank case breather tube was designed to draw out the "vapor" when the vehicle was moving, with increased vacuum at speed. I believe that when a closed system was required by emmission control regulations, the pop-off valve was employed to direct venting to the intake manifold when the vehicle is stationary, and to the carbon canister when the vehicle is in motion. Please correct me if I am wrong. (Was replacement of the carbon canister a part of scheduled maintenance?) Steve P ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Vucinic" To: "'Tony Drews'" ; "'William G Rosenbach'" Cc: Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > I did this with my TR4 and have the exhaust system venturi system scavenging > positive pressure from the engine crankcase and rocker cover, via the upper > portion of the catch can. Works a treat. > > Peter V > TR-4 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Tony Drews > Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2007 6:26 AM > To: William G Rosenbach > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > > Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. > > - Tony > > At 01:08 PM 12/29/2007, William G Rosenbach wrote: > >What ever happened to the practice of creating a Venturi at the outlet of > >the exhaust header and feeding the crankcase vent line to it, to draw > >crankcase gasses out? > >Used to see that a lot on V-8s @ the drag races > >Bill > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cak at dimebank.com Sun Dec 30 12:01:37 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 11:01:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: <200712301901.lBUJ1bmd020313@moose.dimebank.com> I thought the problem with this was that some V8s were found to generate so much vacuum via the exhaust venturi that they dumped a large portion of the engine's oil on the track. From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 11:59:04 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:59:04 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com><20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> <002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: Arrggh--another 4k bounce. Mark, you really should up that a little. >> Nope, you won't get "vapor Lock" or any other issue. The only thing keeping me from doing the same thing is some really sharp SCCA and SOVREN tech inspectors here in the Northwest--they don't like the potential for fogging down your competitors with a nice oil mist. The rules say "catch can". First of all, vapor lock is a popular term that describes gasoline getting hot enough in the fuel lines to make the fuel pump cavitate to the point it can't pump or boiling in the float bowl that screws the carb up. Crankcase volume changes all the time as the pistons rise and fall. Nothing like it does on a BMW boxer motorcycle engine, but it changes. Add a check valve (PCV) and you can pull a vacuum on the case. There's also some blowby past the rings and a lot of off-gassing low boiling point liquids in the oil--mostly water. All crankcase and valve cover vents do is release the pressure. The valve cover area is open to the crankcase so it's pressurized too and very susceptible to leaking, therefore its a good idea to vent it. It's a long way from the valve cover to the crank vent so even if you have a good crankcase ventilation you'll have higher pressure in the valve cover--probably. If you get too much pressure, the seals will leak like a sieve, especially scroll seals or felt ones. And our tractor motors have a weak hold on their fluids under the best conditions. Drawing a slight vacuum on the crankcase and valve cover would be a pretty good thing. Now, if you're worried about emissions and a PCV system, then that's a whole different ball of wax. I've never studied emission controls beyond figuring out how to remove them from racing motors. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Steven Preiss Sent: Sat 12/29/2007 5:24 PM To: Peter Vucinic; 'Tony Drews'; 'William G Rosenbach' Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Do you mean "...exhaust venturi scavenging positive pressure from engine crankcase, and rocker cover venting via the vent on the catch can?" I always thought the crank case and valve cover vents acted in tandem to allow the engine to breathe in both directions. If a vacuum is applied to both, wouldn't that cause a vapor lock? I also thought that the crank case breather tube was designed to draw out the "vapor" when the vehicle was moving, with increased vacuum at speed. I believe that when a closed system was required by emmission control regulations, the pop-off valve was employed to direct venting to the intake manifold when the vehicle is stationary, and to the carbon canister when the vehicle is in motion. Please correct me if I am wrong. (Was replacement of the carbon canister a part of scheduled maintenance?) From vanlake at bellsouth.net Sun Dec 30 12:11:18 2007 From: vanlake at bellsouth.net (vanlake at bellsouth.net) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 19:11:18 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR 6 RELEASE BEARINGS Message-ID: <123020071911.14223.4777ED560003D6570000378F22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> FoT Does anyone have experience using the Gunst Throw-out bearing system? Just wondering how well it will withstand continuous high RPM spinning, since it is always in contact with the clutch fingers. The makers must be proud of it due to the fact it is three times the cost of a "standard" release bearing. Much appreciated, Mark Oldspeed 72 " Money can't buy you happiness, but it can take you to places where you can find it for yourself" Lou Holtz after signing his first contract at Notre Dame. From walt at hot-tr6.com Sun Dec 30 13:52:04 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:52:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR 6 RELEASE BEARINGS In-Reply-To: <123020071911.14223.4777ED560003D6570000378F22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> Message-ID: <20071230205327.ED008187AAF@autox.team.net> Another issue for consideration is thrust washer wear as well as wear on the release fingers on the clutch pressure plate. But back to the thrust washer, constant pressure, even slight, increases heat, friction and wear. Once the rear most thrust washer wears too much then the inside thrust washer slips out of place and is found laying in the bottom of the oil pan that you took off to figure out why you have a connecting rod sticking out of the side of your engine block. This is why I had Ron Meek developed for me a 360 degree thrust washer as described on page 144 of Kas Kastner's book Historical & Technical Guide for Triumph Cars Walt Hollowell Abq., NM -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+walt=hot-tr6.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+walt=hot-tr6.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of vanlake at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 12:11 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR 6 RELEASE BEARINGS FoT Does anyone have experience using the Gunst Throw-out bearing system? Just wondering how well it will withstand continuous high RPM spinning, since it is always in contact with the clutch fingers. The makers must be proud of it due to the fact it is three times the cost of a "standard" release bearing. Much appreciated, Mark Oldspeed 72 " Money can't buy you happiness, but it can take you to places where you can find it for yourself" Lou Holtz after signing his first contract at Notre Dame. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Sun Dec 30 14:05:59 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:05:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: <20071230.140600.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R From m-syork at comcast.net Sun Dec 30 14:42:09 2007 From: m-syork at comcast.net (Mark York) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:42:09 -0800 Subject: [Fot] More valve cover breather Message-ID: <000301c84b2c$d5534eb0$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Okay I'll remove the battery from the TR3 and get one of those tiny AMG batteries and mount it on the passenger side floor. In the battery well I'll mount a catch can. I'll drill a hole in my nice shiny chrome valve cover and weld in a straight or 90 degree hose barb fitting, where should I locate it to be most effective (top or side, front or back of the valve cover)? Regards Mark From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 15:15:41 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:15:41 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <20071230.140600.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: Much more likely to suck too hard at high RPM that not do enough. It's hard to set up a venturi system that's anything like linear. At Idle it could be pressurizing the crank and at full RPM sucking the oil out. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of William G Rosenbach Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 1:05 PM To: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 15:20:10 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:20:10 -0800 Subject: [Fot] More valve cover breather References: <000301c84b2c$d5534eb0$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: Before you do any of those thing you should probably talk to Tony Garmey. He could do it an make it look like the factory made it that way. I could save myself a lot of grief by simply living closer to that guy. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Mark York Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 1:42 PM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] More valve cover breather Okay I'll remove the battery from the TR3 and get one of those tiny AMG batteries and mount it on the passenger side floor. In the battery well I'll mount a catch can. I'll drill a hole in my nice shiny chrome valve cover and weld in a straight or 90 degree hose barb fitting, where should I locate it to be most effective (top or side, front or back of the valve cover)? Regards Mark Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jwags at dotnet.com Sun Dec 30 19:53:56 2007 From: jwags at dotnet.com (jwags at dotnet.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:53:56 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: Message-ID: <477859C4.000003.02260@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> The hot set up for drag racers was to use an air pump check valve from a GM car And a 6 inch length of pipe cut at 45 degrees with a small whistle cut that Stuck inside the header.It worked very well When I got into this left right stuff it was one of the first things I did to the Little TR, it worked too well. We would suck out more than a quart of oil in one session. Drag cars are running hard for seconds while road racers run much longer times. I think that has a lot to do with it. Don't waste your time. Just the wrench. . eFrom: Bill Babcock Date: 12/30/2007 4:14:28 PM To: William G Rosenbach; william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Much more likely to suck too hard at high RPM that not do enough. It's hard to set up a venturi system that's anything like linear. At Idle it could be Pressurizing the crank and at full RPM sucking the oil out. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of William G Rosenbach Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 1:05 PM To: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 18c_blue.gif] From kenandtweety at yahoo.com Sun Dec 30 20:11:01 2007 From: kenandtweety at yahoo.com (Ken Suhre) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 19:11:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Valvecover venting Message-ID: <279341.76750.qm@web33109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Being a Chrysler Corp. technician for some 38 years, I have a pretty good understanding of emission systems on automobiles. The positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve is what controls the flow of engine crancase vapors to the intake manifold. It has an orifaced check valve that only allows flow when vacum is applied as the engine is running. Air is drawn into the engine through a filtered inlet in the aircleaner system, usually through a hose to the opposite valve cover of a vee type engine. The charcoal canister is there only to recover fuel vapors from the tank and carburator if it has one. When the engine is running above an idle these vapors are purged from the charcoal by the intake manifold vacum. Usually through an orifaced port to control the amount of flow. Probably boring information to most vintage racers. But I just had to try to clear up the confusion. Ken Suhre ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 30 20:17:03 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 22:17:03 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: I must live a charmed life. Mine has been flawless. > The hot set up for drag racers was to use an air pump check valve from a GM > car > And a 6 inch length of pipe cut at 45 degrees with a small whistle cut that > Stuck inside the header.It worked very well > When I got into this left right stuff it was one of the first things I did > to the > Little TR, it worked too well. We would suck out more than a quart of oil in > one > session. > Drag cars are running hard for seconds while road racers run much longer > times. > I think that has a lot to do with it. Don't waste your time. > From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sun Dec 30 20:32:03 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:32:03 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: References: <20071230.140600.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: Bill, To avoid ANY back pressures you should fit a one way / check valve at the exhaust venture. These type of check valves are available on some emission vehicles. Problem solved. That what I have on my TR4. Peter V TR-4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Monday, 31 December 2007 9:16 AM To: William G Rosenbach; william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Much more likely to suck too hard at high RPM that not do enough. It's hard to set up a venturi system that's anything like linear. At Idle it could be pressurizing the crank and at full RPM sucking the oil out. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of William G Rosenbach Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 1:05 PM To: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sun Dec 30 20:35:58 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:35:58 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: <20071230.140600.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> References: <20071230.140600.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: The Venturi system I have generates about 1.5PSI of negative at best. If you are looking for more than this, you should consider using a smog pump or similar. The venture is a 'cost you nothing' in horse power terms to run. I don't see a down side to using something you already have available to you. However, it has its limitation like any system. Peter V TR-4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of William G Rosenbach Sent: Monday, 31 December 2007 8:06 AM To: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sun Dec 30 20:39:58 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:39:58 +1100 Subject: [Fot] [FOT] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: <477859C4.000003.02260@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> References: <477859C4.000003.02260@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> Message-ID: That is why you NED to feed ALL of your lines into a catch can that has baffles in it to separate the oil and let it accumulate in the bottom of the catch can. You then are sucking mostly vapor, while reducing crank system/engine pressures to some degree. It make NO logical sense to connect the Venturi directly to your engine block or rocker cover! All you will be doing is pumping oil out the back as you describe. Peter V TR-4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jwags at dotnet.com Sent: Monday, 31 December 2007 1:54 PM To: William G Rosenbach; william.tobin3 at verizon.net; Bill Babcock Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather The hot set up for drag racers was to use an air pump check valve from a GM car And a 6 inch length of pipe cut at 45 degrees with a small whistle cut that Stuck inside the header.It worked very well When I got into this left right stuff it was one of the first things I did to the Little TR, it worked too well. We would suck out more than a quart of oil in one session. Drag cars are running hard for seconds while road racers run much longer times. I think that has a lot to do with it. Don't waste your time. Just the wrench. . eFrom: Bill Babcock Date: 12/30/2007 4:14:28 PM To: William G Rosenbach; william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Much more likely to suck too hard at high RPM that not do enough. It's hard to set up a venturi system that's anything like linear. At Idle it could be Pressurizing the crank and at full RPM sucking the oil out. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of William G Rosenbach Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 1:05 PM To: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 18c_blue.gif] Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Sun Dec 30 20:43:04 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:43:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com><20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> <002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: <47786548.4020401@bradakis.com> > Arrggh--another 4k bounce. Mark, you really should up that a little. The vast majority of replies that bounce due to size limits are because people include a bunch of crap in their replies that just doesn't need to be there. And quite aware of the irony, here's a previous exchange on this subject. mjb. ---- -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fot] List message sizes Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:38:14 -0700 From: Bill Babcock To: Mark J. Bradakis CC: fot at autox.team.net Okay, makes sense, I'll do that. I had assumed it was a storage issue, and since storage is essentially free these days, or at least it's cheaper than I ever could have imagined, I thought the concern might be a little obsolete. Never thought about the archive and search issues. Of course I imagine a pretty simple program that would clean that all up as it sticks data in the archive, but I'm not volunteering to write anything. I don't imagine anyone would be thrilled with software written in Foxpro, which is the only language I remember, other than some vague recollections of Pascal, C, and AWK. On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:45 PM, Mark J. Bradakis wrote: > Finally getting around to answering an old question. Sorry for the > delay. > > Bill Babcock wrote: > >> First one bounced--too big. Hey Mark, isn't 4K a bit too restrictive? >> >> > Well, yes and no, sort of. It is an arbitrary limit I just > picked. On > some of the > other big lists, though, it is only 3K. Basically the problem lies in > the default > behavior of many popular email clients in use today. When people > respond > to a message, the *entire* message is added to the end of the > response. > Unlike > this message, which has only one pertinent line included, at the > beginning, where > it is clear to see the issue under discussion. > > So what happens is that as people continue discussion on a topic, the > messages > keep getting longer and longer and longer and longer. There may be > only two > or three lines still pertinent to the discussion or necessary for > context, but all > the useless verbiage keeps getting dragged along for the ride. > > Last time I actually ran some statistical programs on the Team.Net > lists, > about 70 - 80 percent of the character count of list messages was > text > that was included for no real reason at all. That's about the same as > buying > a 6 pack of your favorite beverage, and getting one or two that are > the > actual fresh, new beverage, the rest are, uh, recycled product. > > All this extra, useless text does is slow down the Team.Net network > line, > transmitting bits that it doesn't need to transmit. It slows down > the list > archiving processes, as they have to go over the same text again > and again. > Gee, nothing like getting 50 hits on your search only to find that > 48 of > them > are the same old paragraph added again and again and again to peoples > replies. The added replies slow down the mail processing, adding to > the delays in getting the messages out to the list. > > If the preceding paragraph is too much computer jargon for you to get > your mind around, then think of it this way - how would your race > car start > behaving if every time you crossed the start/finish line you had to > stop and > take on another 50 pounds of ballast? > > And of course, there is the time I have to spend cleaning up bouncing > addresses because all the clueless replies filled up the mailboxes of > hapless subscribers who've hit their limit. > > I know that I'm never going to be able to singlehandedly change human > behavior, but it sure would be nice if a few more folks spent an extra > few seconds on their list messages. Set your mailer to NOT include > the > original in your reply, just paste in the appropriate line or two > as I did > above. Or at least delete the text that serves no purpose in your > response, > rather than just absentmindedly trying to stuff it down the > Team.Net pipe > for no useful reason. > > If you do have a lot to say and your all-original message does hit up > against the size limit, I do try to stay somewhat current with admin > requests, and I'll approve such messages and get them on their way > as I have time. > > Gee, this message is getting kind of long. Wonder how many folks will > respond, and include it in its entirety in their response? For > now, I'll > just send it off and then spend some more time wading through the > 7,664 unread messages cuurently in my Team.Net admin mailbox. > > mjb. From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 30 21:02:06 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 23:02:06 EST Subject: [Fot] CRANKCASE EVACUATION SYSTEM Message-ID: GM has a typical check valve for $10-15 if you make your own. This system will: "...provide better piston ring seal, less intake charge contamination, and reduced oil leaks caused by high crankcase pressure." This is from a circle track catalog. A little marketing hype built in here, I sense. Moroso, Mr. Gasket, and Renegade provide these kits to the circle track guys. There are pieces uneeded for Triumphs and no hi temp poly tubing, which may be the most expensive item. I have no understanding of why they are not permitted in the SCCA GCRs. Likely for good reason in certain applications...V-8s? But for TR3/TR4 engines, it seems like an appropriate modification. I was putting a lot of oil into the frame rails and then would dump it ON the exhaust pipe at Turn Five at Road America. Not a very pretty cloud of oil smoke and of some concern to the corner workers. After going home, I would let the TR4 drip for a couple of weeks, then wipe it down. This system changed all of that. Joe A > Bill, > > To avoid ANY back pressures you should fit a one way / check valve at the > exhaust venture. These type of check valves are available on some emission > vehicles. Problem solved. That what I have on my TR4. > > Peter V > TR-4 > From DSPGTi at aol.com Sun Dec 30 21:20:09 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 23:20:09 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case venting connecting to the exhaust system. After all we are talking about oil being injected in the stream after combustion. It has been prohibited by SCCA as long as I can remember, however there appears to be no mention in the 1972 GCR rules under the "oil catch tanks" section. The second oldest GCR that I have on hand (2003 17.26) states the exact wording as the 2008 GCR: "A crankcase vacuum breather that passes through the oil catch tank(s) to exhaust systems or vacuum devices that connect directly to exhaust systems is prohibited." I have yet to run my TR4 hard enough or long enough but my VW Rabbit can put a half a quart in the catch tank on a hot day during a 20 minute session. On a 3 hour enduro we have to add a quart at a pit stop on a Scirocco and finish almost a quart low. Both engines are very strong with minimal leak down.You wouldn't want to be following me with that going out my tail pipe. Dave Y. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From jaboruch at netzero.net Sun Dec 30 21:39:32 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 04:39:32 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner Message-ID: <20071230.233932.5196.2@webmail18.dca.untd.com> Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken timing chain tensioner. This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all with this same block). Some have broken in a season or less, while this one was used last season and then failed sometime this season. These have been from the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was from who. Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I am doing wrong that is causing the failures? They are not wearing thru, but rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot. Any better designed tensioners out there for the tractor motors? Joe(B) _____________________________________________________________ Are you overpaying for motorcycle insurance? Get a quote today. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmN0Fya3y18EGne27K9QLpQ2 rxCQei95XilDIzITY2om3OIa/ From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 21:40:38 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:40:38 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valvecover venting References: <279341.76750.qm@web33109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What he said... -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Ken Suhre Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 7:11 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Valvecover venting Being a Chrysler Corp. technician for some 38 years, I have a pretty good understanding of emission systems on automobiles. The positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve is what controls the flow of engine crancase vapors to the intake manifold. It has an orifaced check valve that only allows flow when vacum is applied as the engine is running. Air is drawn into the engine through a filtered inlet in the aircleaner system, usually through a hose to the opposite valve cover of a vee type engine. The charcoal canister is there only to recover fuel vapors from the tank and carburator if it has one. When the engine is running above an idle these vapors are purged from the charcoal by the intake manifold vacum. Usually through an orifaced port to control the amount of flow. Probably boring information to most vintage racers. But I just had to try to clear up the confusion. Ken Suhre _______________________________________________________________________ _____________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 21:45:56 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:45:56 -0800 Subject: [Fot] CRANKCASE EVACUATION SYSTEM References: Message-ID: I might have to give it a try. Of course that means Peyote is going to rust. -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com [mailto:N197TR4 at cs.com] Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 8:02 PM To: pvucinic at netspace.net.au; Bill Babcock; wgrosenbach at juno.com; william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: CRANKCASE EVACUATION SYSTEM GM has a typical check valve for $10-15 if you make your own. This system will: "...provide better piston ring seal, less intake charge contamination, and reduced oil leaks caused by high crankcase pressure." This is from a circle track catalog. A little marketing hype built in here, I sense. Moroso, Mr. Gasket, and Renegade provide these kits to the circle track guys. There are pieces uneeded for Triumphs and no hi temp poly tubing, which may be the most expensive item. I have no understanding of why they are not permitted in the SCCA GCRs. Likely for good reason in certain applications...V-8s? But for TR3/TR4 engines, it seems like an appropriate modification. I was putting a lot of oil into the frame rails and then would dump it ON the exhaust pipe at Turn Five at Road America. Not a very pretty cloud of oil smoke and of some concern to the corner workers. After going home, I would let the TR4 drip for a couple of weeks, then wipe it down. This system changed all of that. Joe A > Bill, > > To avoid ANY back pressures you should fit a one way / check valve at the > exhaust venture. These type of check valves are available on some emission > vehicles. Problem solved. That what I have on my TR4. > > Peter V > TR-4 > From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 21:58:07 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:58:07 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: Message-ID: Actually, I know this can be managed better, though what I know works best with a dry sump. It's pretty easy to build a swirl can that will return the oil to the crankcase. On my Radical I would put about a quart of oil in the catch tank every 30 minute race. Obviously a problem for endurance races. I made a swirl can with a helical separator structure inside--the oil/air vapor from the breather went in at an angle in the bottom side (promoting swirl) and exhausted through the top of the can. The oil that collected on the can sides and the separator fell to the bottom and returned to the sump. If this went to a catch can with a fairly restrictive filter on top that had a line going to the divergent side of the header collector it would draw a slight vacuum on the system and might reduce my general engine spewing. Might be worth fiddling with. Not purely legal, but if an organization's tech guys didn't like it I could just blank off the hose. -----Original Message----- From: DSPGTi at aol.com [mailto:DSPGTi at aol.com] Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 8:20 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com; jwags at dotnet.com; wgrosenbach at juno.com; william.tobin3 at verizon.net; Bill Babcock Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case venting connecting to the exhaust system. After all we are talking about oil being injected in the stream after combustion. It has been prohibited by SCCA as long as I can remember, however there appears to be no mention in the 1972 GCR rules under the "oil catch tanks" section. The second oldest GCR that I have on hand (2003 17.26) states the exact wording as the 2008 GCR: "A crankcase vacuum breather that passes through the oil catch tank(s) to exhaust systems or vacuum devices that connect directly to exhaust systems is prohibited." I have yet to run my TR4 hard enough or long enough but my VW Rabbit can put a half a quart in the catch tank on a hot day during a 20 minute session. On a 3 hour enduro we have to add a quart at a pit stop on a Scirocco and finish almost a quart low. Both engines are very strong with minimal leak down.You wouldn't want to be following me with that going out my tail pipe. Dave Y. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 21:58:34 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:58:34 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner References: <20071230.233932.5196.2@webmail18.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: I make my own with a delrin block faced with neoprene and a coil spring. Looks like it came out a motorcycle--surprise, surprise. The little flat springs suck bilgewater. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Joe Boruch Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 8:39 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken timing chain tensioner. This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all with this same block). Some have broken in a season or less, while this one was used last season and then failed sometime this season. These have been from the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was from who. Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I am doing wrong that is causing the failures? They are not wearing thru, but rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot. Any better designed tensioners out there for the tractor motors? Joe(B) _____________________________________________________________ Are you overpaying for motorcycle insurance? Get a quote today. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmN0Fya3y18EGne27K9QLpQ2 rxCQei95XilDIzITY2om3OIa/ Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 22:01:36 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 21:01:36 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com><20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net><002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> <47786548.4020401@bradakis.com> Message-ID: too funny--my "mea culpa" bounce email got bounced. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 8:42 PM To: Mark J. Bradakis; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Valve cover breather Oh yeah, now I remember. You'll just have to remind me every now and then that it's a good idea. I think I have a complete turnover of my entire inventory of memory every six months. You might want to just just save the message and send it to me semi-annually. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Mark J. Bradakis Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 7:43 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > Arrggh--another 4k bounce. Mark, you really should up that a little. The vast majority of replies that bounce due to size limits are because people include a bunch of crap in their replies that just doesn't need to be there. And quite aware of the irony, here's a previous exchange on this subject. mjb. ---- From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 30 22:11:55 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 00:11:55 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: For a TR4, it might be the lesser of two evils.... I really see no evidence of oil in my exhaust pipe, believing it likely burns off before getting to the end of the pipe. I have no scientific or empirical proof of anything........... Joe A > I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case > venting connecting to the exhaust system. After all we are talking about oil > being injected in the stream after combustion. It has been prohibited by SCCA as > long as I can remember, however there appears to be no mention in the 1972 > GCR rules under the "oil catch tanks" section. The second oldest GCR that I > have on hand (2003 17.26) states the exact wording as the 2008 GCR: "A crankcase > vacuum breather that passes through the oil catch tank(s) to exhaust systems > or vacuum devices that connect directly to exhaust systems is prohibited." > > I have yet to run my TR4 hard enough or long enough but my VW Rabbit can put > a half a quart in the catch tank on a hot day during a 20 minute session. On > a 3 hour enduro we have to add a quart at a pit stop on a Scirocco and > finish almost a quart low. Both engines are very strong with minimal leak down.You > wouldn't want to be following me with that going out my tail pipe. > > Dave Y. > From JWoesvra at aol.com Mon Dec 31 06:49:10 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:49:10 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/30/2007 11:20:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DSPGTi at aol.com writes: I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case venting connecting to the exhaust system. After all we are talking about oil being injected in the stream after combustion. It has been prohibited by SCCA as long as I can remember, however there appears to be no mention in the 1972 GCR rules under the "oil catch tanks" section. The second oldest GCR that I have on hand (2003 17.26) states the exact wording as the 2008 GCR: "A crankcase vacuum breather that passes through the oil catch tank(s) to exhaust systems or vacuum devices that connect directly to exhaust systems is prohibited." This whole issue has nothing to do with what SCCA does or doesn't allow unless you intend to race with them. >From my point of view as a Vintage Guy running Vintage Races, my main concern is providing as much quality track time to as many drivers, safely, as possible. This means starting at 8am and going steady until 6pm at most events for three days. It also means coming up with as many was as possible to prevent some GERBIL from dumping slippery STUFF on the track. Then we spend the whole next session dragging in the BOZOS that wreck in the STUFF, not to mention actually trying to clean up the STUFF. This is why we have permitted roller rockers, accusumps, even dry sumps in certain classes. It also is primarily why we allow steel cranks and Carrillo rods. All these things help your reliability and if you are wise you will use them and still keep your RPM at a sane level. I can't control that but I know we have gained a considerable amount of lost track time back since we started this concept. If a suction crankcase vent keeps oil off the track, I am for it. BTW, we have made "leakers" race worthy and gotten them through the weekend by just zip-tying baby diapers under the offending leak and changing them between sessions. Wouldn't that freak out an SCCA tech guy? Ya gotta be creative and open minded in this business. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Dec 31 07:00:23 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:00:23 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather / filling catch can In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071231140128.F2249187A6C@autox.team.net> We've had differing amounts of oil go to the catch can based on can placement. Venting out the big pipe on the LH side of the engine to a catch can located in the LH side of the engine compartment is a BAD idea, it turns out. RH corners fill the can. My catch can is on the RH edge of the battery tray, so the big vent line goes up and over the engine, and the valve cover breather comes from the top of the oil fill hole. I put a very light film of oil in it. I go a season or more without draining it. I do leave a nice little oil slick under the car when it's parked, though. For my (Ford) diff, I had problems filling its catch can that I finally solved by having the vent link feed upwards into the bottom of the can. The oil drains back into the diff that way. - Tony At 10:20 PM 12/30/2007, DSPGTi at aol.com wrote: >I have yet to run my TR4 hard enough or long enough but my VW Rabbit can put >a half a quart in the catch tank on a hot day during a 20 minute >session. On a >3 hour enduro we have to add a quart at a pit stop on a Scirocco and finish >almost a quart low. Both engines are very strong with minimal leak down.You >wouldn't want to be following me with that going out my tail pipe. From DSPGTi at aol.com Mon Dec 31 08:44:35 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:44:35 EST Subject: [Fot] wideband fuel-air monitor recommendation? Message-ID: We have used the Innovate LM1( _http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php_ (http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php) ) with great results. Can be calibrated for different fuels including methanol, has data logging and has additional inputs for other sensors. Good Luck **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From tarch at bellsouth.net Mon Dec 31 08:48:07 2007 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:48:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301c84bc4$8b731f30$6501a8c0@richardiipc> Joe A wrote about his personal opinion: ".......I have no scientific or empirical proof of anything..........." And now we have Iowa with the destiny of the entire United States and probably the whole world in its hands this week. All I can say is, Joe, Jack, Tony and the rest of you "I was born on a farm out in Ioway..." singing good-ole-boys, just don't make no mistakes in the caucuses. And you surely know that on Wednesday you represent the entire unified political thinking of the Friends of Triumph. So you know your job. Now just do it! You screw up and we'll see you at the track! Richard From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Dec 31 09:10:55 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:10:55 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/31/2007 9:48:25 AM Central Standard Time, tarch at bellsouth.net writes: > ".......I have no scientific or empirical proof of anything..........." > > > And now we have Iowa with the destiny of the entire United States and > probably the whole world in its hands this week. All I can say is, Joe, > Jack, Tony and the rest of you "I was born on a farm out in Ioway..." > singing good-ole-boys, just don't make no mistakes in the caucuses. And you > surely know that on Wednesday you represent the entire unified political > thinking of the Friends of Triumph. So you know your job. Now just do it! > > You screw up and we'll see you at the track! > Actually Jack and Tony are both across the boarder in IlliNOISE. But ah yes,...for sure Bill Bryson would call Joe Alexander a "THUNDERBOLT KID" through and through. First thing every morning, he checks the corn and hog prices. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From S.Janzen at comcast.net Mon Dec 31 09:42:48 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:42:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <000301c84bc4$8b731f30$6501a8c0@richardiipc> Message-ID: <000401c84bcc$2dc891f0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> wait a minute. We have unified political thinking? I bet we shouldn't even go there. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Taylor" To: ; ; ; ; ; Cc: Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > Joe A wrote about his personal opinion: > > ".......I have no scientific or empirical proof of anything..........." > > > And now we have Iowa with the destiny of the entire United States and > probably the whole world in its hands this week. All I can say is, Joe, > Jack, Tony and the rest of you "I was born on a farm out in Ioway..." > singing good-ole-boys, just don't make no mistakes in the caucuses. And > you > surely know that on Wednesday you represent the entire unified political > thinking of the Friends of Triumph. So you know your job. Now just do it! > > You screw up and we'll see you at the track! > > Richard > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 31 10:15:16 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:15:16 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: That's correct....we are a list of FREE SPIRITS. Or perhaps a list of Free Flowing Spirits. "TIME GOES BY QUICKLY WHEN YOU ARE ALIVE......" An Alexanderism > wait a minute. We have unified political thinking? I bet we shouldn't > even go there. > From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 31 10:48:36 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:48:36 EST Subject: [Fot] IOWA Message-ID: "First thing every morning, he checks the corn and hog prices.", says the Mighty Damdinger, about JA. _____________________________________________________ not likely... I was skiing in Colorado once when a cattleman asked me about Limousin Cattle in Iowa. I told him I didnt know anything about them....he became agitated, as he thought it was impossible to be from Iowa and not know about the Limousin Breed. Never mind that my father was farmer and farm implement dealer. And that I was in the ag business most of my life. If those Limousin Cattle had wheels, I might know more about them. I plowed corn, tossed hay bails, cut farm equipment into scrap, steam cleaned tractors....I discovered that Agri-business was another way of spelling Hard Work. Strange that I eventually migrated to a tractor based engine, in my hobby...or perhaps not. Happy New Year!~ > Actually Jack and Tony are both across the boarder in IlliNOISE. > > But ah yes,...for sure Bill Bryson would call Joe Alexander a "THUNDERBOLT > KID" through and through. First thing every morning, he checks the corn and > hog prices. > > Bill (Damdinger) > > From Herald948 at aol.com Mon Dec 31 11:30:31 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:30:31 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/31/2007 12:15:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, N197TR4 at cs.com writes: That's correct....we are a list of FREE SPIRITS. Or perhaps a list of Free Flowing Spirits. ==AM== And personally I think that Free Flowing Spirits are probably the best (if not only) way to deal with politics. Pour me a tall one now, please.... :-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 31 12:26:49 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:26:49 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: Message-ID: Amen to all of that. I hate spinning in oil. In fact my big concern listening to how some of the guys are thinking about doing this is that it would turn their cars into oiling machines, doing a fine job of depositing an even coat of oil on the entire track. I vividly remember a corvair-powered Devin that did a spectacular job of that at Portland. The entire track got gradually slipperier until a whole bunch of us spun simultaneously. I had decided something was wrong with my car and was headed for the pit road when I spun at sub-racing speed. -----Original Message----- From: JWoesvra at aol.com [mailto:JWoesvra at aol.com] Sent: Mon 12/31/2007 5:49 AM To: DSPGTi at aol.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; jwags at dotnet.com; wgrosenbach at juno.com; william.tobin3 at verizon.net; Bill Babcock Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather In a message dated 12/30/2007 11:20:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DSPGTi at aol.com writes: I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case venting connecting to the exhaust system. After all we are talking about oil being injected in the stream after combustion. It has been prohibited by SCCA as long as I can remember, however there appears to be no mention in the 1972 GCR rules under the "oil catch tanks" section. The second oldest GCR that I have on hand (2003 17.26) states the exact wording as the 2008 GCR: "A crankcase vacuum breather that passes through the oil catch tank(s) to exhaust systems or vacuum devices that connect directly to exhaust systems is prohibited." This whole issue has nothing to do with what SCCA does or doesn't allow unless you intend to race with them. >From my point of view as a Vintage Guy running Vintage Races, my main concern is providing as much quality track time to as many drivers, safely, as possible. This means starting at 8am and going steady until 6pm at most events for three days. It also means coming up with as many was as possible to prevent some GERBIL from dumping slippery STUFF on the track. Then we spend the whole next session dragging in the BOZOS that wreck in the STUFF, not to mention actually trying to clean up the STUFF. This is why we have permitted roller rockers, accusumps, even dry sumps in certain classes. It also is primarily why we allow steel cranks and Carrillo rods. All these things help your reliability and if you are wise you will use them and still keep your RPM at a sane level. I can't control that but I know we have gained a considerable amount of lost track time back since we started this concept. If a suction crankcase vent keeps oil off the track, I am for it. BTW, we have made "leakers" race worthy and gotten them through the weekend by just zip-tying baby diapers under the offending leak and changing them between sessions. Wouldn't that freak out an SCCA tech guy? Ya gotta be creative and open minded in this business. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 31 12:29:20 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:29:20 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <000301c84bc4$8b731f30$6501a8c0@richardiipc> <000401c84bcc$2dc891f0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: Unified in the same sense there there might be a unified field theory, but it probably would be so complex that no one would understand it. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Scott Janzen Sent: Mon 12/31/2007 8:42 AM To: Richard Taylor; N197TR4 at cs.com; DSPGTi at aol.com; jwags at dotnet.com; wgrosenbach at juno.com; william.tobin3 at verizon.net; Bill Babcock Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather wait a minute. We have unified political thinking? I bet we shouldn't even go there. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Taylor" To: ; ; ; ; ; Cc: Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > Joe A wrote about his personal opinion: > > ".......I have no scientific or empirical proof of anything..........." > > > And now we have Iowa with the destiny of the entire United States and > probably the whole world in its hands this week. All I can say is, Joe, > Jack, Tony and the rest of you "I was born on a farm out in Ioway..." > singing good-ole-boys, just don't make no mistakes in the caucuses. And > you > surely know that on Wednesday you represent the entire unified political > thinking of the Friends of Triumph. So you know your job. Now just do it! > > You screw up and we'll see you at the track! > > Richard > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spreiss at verizon.net Sun Dec 30 20:33:56 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:33:56 +1100 Subject: [Fot] clean running Message-ID: <004f01c84b5d$f9908960$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> .....BTW, we have made "leakers" race worthy and gotten them through the weekend by just zip-tying baby diapers under the offending leak and changing them between sessions. Wouldn't that freak out an SCCA tech guy? Ya gotta be creative and open minded in this business. I think it would be very cool if fot took a proactive role in helping to develop cleaner and safer running vintage race cars in all jurisdictions and sanctioning bodies. Since joining I have learned so much about how to make the cars go faster and which tracks are most challenging and why. This is the first thread that seems to have touched on something I have sensed that was missing in the mindset, that being how to develop our hobby and passion to actually bring about a positive change in the global sense. I fully admit to being a neophyte in both realms, but though that this was worth mentioning to the group. Steve P. From Cofrog at aol.com Mon Dec 31 13:06:45 2007 From: Cofrog at aol.com (Cofrog at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:06:45 EST Subject: [Fot] IOWA Message-ID: I once rode in a stretch limousin that had wheels. Somewhere down south I bvelieve. Maybe Terlingua Texas as I was eating chile with some guy in a bib! Happy New Year Dan F **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From JWoesvra at aol.com Mon Dec 31 15:09:56 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:09:56 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/30/2007 11:20:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DSPGTi at aol.com writes: I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case venting connecting to the exhaust system. Once again, we will allow anything that works to help alleviate oiling the track. The proof is in the Puddin! If you SUCK your oil out and put it on MY track, you are goin' home right now! If you come up with a way to keep it from slowly dripping out, that's what I want. I don't car if you have a helicopter following you with a suction hose to your catch tank. What does GCR say about helicopter support vehicles? Jack Woehrle **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From spitfiresuz at 141.com Mon Dec 31 15:33:46 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:33:46 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47796E4A.1030006@141.com> I believe they are allowed as long as you don't utilize the downdraft for brake cooling... ;) Susan :) JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > > What does GCR say about helicopter support vehicles? > > Jack Woehrle > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Mon Dec 31 19:01:35 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 13:01:35 +1100 Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner In-Reply-To: <20071230.233932.5196.2@webmail18.dca.untd.com> References: <20071230.233932.5196.2@webmail18.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Joe, Check to see if you have any radial run out in either the crankshaft or camshaft gear. This may not seem like an issue for your type of failure. However, if you indeed have run out greater than a few thou, the chain tensioner will be continually flexing, rather than simply exerting tension force on the chain. This flexing will eventually lead to fatigue, and the most likeliest point will be close to the fixed end of the tensioner. I have had NEW crank gears with more than 0.020" thou of radial run out in them and once the timing chain drive has been assembled, you can physically see the tensioner being flexed while turning the engine over by hand. Hope this helps Peter V TR-4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Boruch Sent: Monday, 31 December 2007 3:40 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken timing chain tensioner. This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all with this same block). Some have broken in a season or less, while this one was used last season and then failed sometime this season. These have been from the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was from who. Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I am doing wrong that is causing the failures? They are not wearing thru, but rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot. Any better designed tensioners out there for the tractor motors? Joe(B) _____________________________________________________________ Are you overpaying for motorcycle insurance? Get a quote today. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmN0Fya3y18EGne27K9QLpQ 2 rxCQei95XilDIzITY2om3OIa/ Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4.tony at virgin.net Mon Dec 31 19:10:19 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 02:10:19 -0000 Subject: [Fot] IOWA References: Message-ID: <000401c84c1b$75258400$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Happy New Year Gentlemen .... hope 2008 is a fast and happy one for you all. Tony From bob at CoanPro.com Sat Dec 1 08:56:15 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 07:56:15 -0800 Subject: [Fot] $25,000 SCCA or Vintage Spitfire MK II for $5000. Message-ID: <002d01c83432$b4e62550$1eb26ff0$@com> Hey everyone, I've decided to sell this beautiful SCCA HP ready Spitfire along with a nice stock of spare parts. My Dad and I hoped to make it to the runoffs but its does not look like we will be doing that anytime soon, so instead of letting this car sit in storage, I'll find someone that wants to put it on the track. It could easily be converted to Vintage. Take a look at http://picasaweb.google.com/thinkfreerealtyphotos/SCCAHPTriumphSpitfire The guy I bought it from owned a racing supply business and put over 25k into the car and only ran it a few times. The car has been totally race prepared with a brand new 1147 race motor built by Acme Racing of Spartanburg NC, rebuilt transmission, rebuilt rear end, everything including lug bolts and studs have been rebuilt. The car has Mark Williams axels, modified carbs and Electromotive crank trigger ignition. Gary Johnson of E. TN Race Prep did the final assembly...including front coil over's, new front and rear disc brakes, Electromotive crank trigger ignition and more. I just put the car on e-bay for $5000. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &ssPageName=STRK:MESEX:IT&item=220178787790&_trksid=p3984.cSELL.m315.lVI I also have a the enclosed trailer and matching Dodge Ram truck if someone wanted a turnkey setup. All going for good prices. I need to clear out my storage shop over the next 3 weeks, so please forward this info to anyone you think might be interested. It's all located in Tustin, California, which is Southern California near Disneyland. Bob Coan 714-566-5138 _______________________________________________ From bob at CoanPro.com Sat Dec 1 12:13:09 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 11:13:09 -0800 Subject: [Fot] here is the correct link to the auction for the Spitfire Message-ID: <002801c8344e$36c82940$a4587bc0$@com> Here is the link for the auction for the SCCA HP or Vintage Spitfire. The link was broken on my last post. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &sspagename=STRK%3AMESEX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220178787790&_trksid=p3984.cSEL L.m315.lVI Bob Coan 714-566-5138 bob at coanpro.com From bob at CoanPro.com Sat Dec 1 13:59:44 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:59:44 -0800 Subject: [Fot] here is the correct link for the SCCA Spitfire MK II auction Message-ID: <003701c8345d$19ee4e30$4dcaea90$@com> Oh boy, the link was so long it presented a problem. Here is a link that works. Link to E-Bay Auction here. This is for the SCCA Spitfire for sale. Bob Coan bob at coanpro.com 714-566-5138 From bob at CoanPro.com Sat Dec 1 14:09:52 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 13:09:52 -0800 Subject: [Fot] one more try for link to 66 Spitfire racer auction Message-ID: <003c01c8345e$849c8700$8dd59500$@com> Ok, here is the auction number for the SCCA Spitfire. 220178787790 You would never guess that I am in the computer industry. Bob Coan bob at coanpro.com 714-566-5138 This is what I had to deal with. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220178787790&r u=http%3A%2F%2Fmotors.search-completed.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3 Fsofocus%3Dbs%26sbrftog%3D1%26ampsspagename%3Dh%253Ah%253Aadvsearch%253AUS%2 6catref%3DC12%26guest%3D1%26fcl%3D3%26frpp%3D50%26from%3DR10%26satitle%3D220 178787790%26sacat%3D6001%2526catref%253DC6%26a39%3D-24%26a38v1y%3D%26a38v2y% 3D%26a10239%3D-24%26a39705%3D-24%26a18%3D-24%26a10244%3D-24%26alist%3Da39%25 2Ca41%252Ca38v1y%252Ca38v2y%252Ca10239%252Ca3801%252Ca85%252Ca10246%252Ca335 12%252Ca10241%252Ca10244%252Ca39705%252Ca18%26pfmode%3D1%26reqtype%3D1%26gcs %3D13%26pfid%3D2473%26pf_query%3D220178787790%26sargn%3D-1%2526saslc%253D2%2 6sadis%3D200%26fpos%3D34997%26sabfmts%3D1%26saobfmts%3Dinsif%26fis%3D2%26ftr t%3D1%26ftrv%3D1%26saprclo%3D%26saprchi%3D%26sadis1%3D100%26fpos1%3D34997%26 lsot1%3D%26fsop%3D1%2526fsoo%253D2%26sadis2%3D100%26fpos2%3D34997%26lsot2%3D %26fvi%3D1 From REK46 at aol.com Sat Dec 1 14:21:37 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:21:37 EST Subject: [Fot] one more try for link to 66 Spitfire racer auction Message-ID: and our kids ridicule us 'old' guys for being "computerly challenged" ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From britbits at tiu.net Sat Dec 1 19:10:17 2007 From: britbits at tiu.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 20:10:17 -0600 Subject: [Fot] SCCA or Vintage Spitfire for sale In-Reply-To: <001101c833ce$866f9bc0$934ed340$@com> References: <001101c833ce$866f9bc0$934ed340$@com> Message-ID: <005c01c83488$7c390f50$ede435cf@jrg> Which vintage race groups allow rear discs on a Spitfire? Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+britbits=tiu.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+britbits=tiu.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Coan Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:59 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] SCCA or Vintage Spitfire for sale The guy I bought it from owned a racing supply business and put over 25k into the car and only ran it a few times. The car has been totally race prepared with a brand new 1147 race motor built by Acme Racing of Spartanburg NC, rebuilt transmission, rebuilt rear end, everything including lug bolts and studs have been rebuilt. The car has Mark Williams axels, modified carbs and Electromotive crank trigger ignition. Gary Johnson of E. TN Race Prep did the final assembly...including front coil over's, new front and rear disc brakes, Electromotive crank trigger ignition and more. Ebay item 220178787790 From bob at CoanPro.com Sat Dec 1 21:30:54 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 20:30:54 -0800 Subject: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. Message-ID: <002e01c8349c$21cd8a00$65689e00$@com> I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. Thanks for helping spread the word! Bob Coan From hottr6 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 2 15:11:11 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:11:11 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. Message-ID: > I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer > as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. Does this mean Babcock is preparing an Island-based "All Rust Tour"? Or are there two Triumph nutz in Hawaii? ;) Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 2 16:23:31 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 16:23:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] List Nomination Message-ID: <20071202233058.ELL23849.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> I would like to nominate Robert Smith (SMITH1127 at aol.com) to the list. Robert is a member of DCTRA (The Arizona TR Club although he lives in Hawaii) and has an interesting collection of cars including the full race Spitfire that he bought off this list the other day. Bill Babcock has corresponded with Robert in the past too. From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 2 16:26:32 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 16:26:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071202233059.ELP23849.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> There are two nuts. The guy that bought the Spitfire bought a TR3 from here in Arizona earlier this year and has a pretty interesting collection At 03:11 PM 12/2/2007, you wrote: > > I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer > > as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. > >Does this mean Babcock is preparing an Island-based "All Rust Tour"? > >Or are there two Triumph nutz in Hawaii? ;) > >Shane Ingate in NM > >_________________________________________________________________ >You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the im >Initiative now. >http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 2 16:42:05 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 15:42:05 -0800 Subject: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. References: Message-ID: Apparently there's two. No idea what he'll do with it in Hawaii, there's no track. I guess he wants to look at it. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Shane Ingate Sent: Sun 12/2/2007 2:11 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. > I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer > as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. Does this mean Babcock is preparing an Island-based "All Rust Tour"? Or are there two Triumph nutz in Hawaii? ;) Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 2 16:56:24 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 16:56:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071203000047.NJHB20016.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Bill, you've emailed the new owner before. Here is a comment that Robert (the new owner) sent to me about one of the uses for the car. "...It should be an interesting car in Hawaii, and I'm looking forward to competing on our small but fun SCCA track in Hilo..." At 04:42 PM 12/2/2007, you wrote: >Apparently there's two. No idea what he'll do with it in Hawaii, there's no >track. I guess he wants to look at it. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Shane Ingate >Sent: Sun 12/2/2007 2:11 PM >To: Friends of Triumph >Subject: Re: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. > > > I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer > > as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. > >Does this mean Babcock is preparing an Island-based "All Rust Tour"? > >Or are there two Triumph nutz in Hawaii? ;) > >Shane Ingate in NM > >_________________________________________________________________ >You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the im >Initiative now. >http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From brad.kahler at 141.com Sun Dec 2 21:20:12 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 22:20:12 -0600 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man Message-ID: <475383FC.9080607@141.com> Its amazing he walked away from this. http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l157/Nifty_Fifty_1950/?action=view¤t=Luckiestmanontheplanet.flv Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer. From spreiss at verizon.net Sun Dec 2 05:42:43 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:42:43 +1100 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man References: <475383FC.9080607@141.com> Message-ID: <000801c834e0$d5af4010$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> "Maybe there's somethin' t' be said fer Positraction after all." (At least he didn't have to worry about that doggie comin back to gore him.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Kahler" To: Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 3:20 PM Subject: [Fot] One lucky man > Its amazing he walked away from this. > > http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l157/Nifty_Fifty_1950/?action=view¤t=Luckiestmanontheplanet.flv > > Brad > 1957 TR3 vintage racer. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 2 21:47:58 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:47:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man In-Reply-To: <000801c834e0$d5af4010$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> References: <475383FC.9080607@141.com> <000801c834e0$d5af4010$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: <20071203045220.ESSX23849.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Makes you wonder if inspection of safety items like belts, seat and roll cage are mere afterthoughts for the driver, the sanction and the track. What was the seat bolted to? Tin foil? Looking at the car on the starting line and seeing what looks like significant amounts of rust on the roof makes me wonder if the whole car was being held together with a coat of primer? Sure came apart like it's body panels had been flying in loose formation before the accident. At 05:42 AM 12/2/2007, Steven Preiss wrote: >"Maybe there's somethin' t' be said fer Positraction after all." (At least >he didn't have to worry about that doggie comin back to gore him.) > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Brad Kahler" >To: >Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 3:20 PM >Subject: [Fot] One lucky man > > > > Its amazing he walked away from this. > > > > >http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l157/Nifty_Fifty_1950/?action=view¤t=Luckiestmanontheplanet.flv > > > > Brad > > 1957 TR3 vintage racer. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 3 03:24:39 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 02:24:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Bud Babcock Message-ID: <645629.68817.qm@web81105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry to bomb the list, but would you please email me ... I need your email address and some other info for the glen 2008 project... Thanks, Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 3 03:25:29 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 02:25:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Dick stockton Message-ID: <793983.52516.qm@web81104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry to bomb the list, but would you please email me re the glen 2008 project .. thanks Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 3 03:26:20 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 02:26:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Paul Smock Message-ID: <99285.2473.qm@web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry to bomb the list, but would you please email me, re the glen 2008 project .. thanks Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From RustyTR4 at aol.com Mon Dec 3 04:44:28 2007 From: RustyTR4 at aol.com (RustyTR4 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:44:28 EST Subject: [Fot] List Nomination Message-ID: I would be glad to second that Matt Matt Bakes Triumph Rescue (610) 845 - 8217 _www.TriumphRescue.com_ (http://www.triumphrescue.com/) British Wiring, Inc. 866-461-9050 _www.BritishWiring.com_ (http://www.britishwiring.com/) 617 Walnut St. Bally, PA. 19503 **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Mon Dec 3 05:07:38 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoff Byrne) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 23:07:38 +1100 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs In-Reply-To: <883765.25532.qm@web81713.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <883765.25532.qm@web81713.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57B7EF2438F140498A362E71B44F01BA@GEOFFPC> Dennis Do not race your TR with the standard hubs they will break. we have had 2 failues on track cars which very nearly lead to the death of the drivers. There are many many examples of hub failures. The design is terrible . We replace the TR hub with a Datsun 240Z it is a fairly simple conversion. Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis DeLap" To: "FOT" Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs > Amici - I have a question for those who are racing a TR4A - TR6. What > have you done to make the rear axle/hubs safe? Upgrades, modifications, > etc. > > Thanks > Dennis DeLap > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Mon Dec 3 05:58:53 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 05:58:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs In-Reply-To: <57B7EF2438F140498A362E71B44F01BA@GEOFFPC> Message-ID: <000101c835ac$425eb850$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Is there a source for photographs and/or detailed instructions regarding the 240Z conversion. I would like to learn more the hub failures. Jim g -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Geoff Byrne Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 5:08 AM To: Dennis DeLap; FOT Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs Dennis Do not race your TR with the standard hubs they will break. we have had 2 failues on track cars which very nearly lead to the death of the drivers. There are many many examples of hub failures. The design is terrible . We replace the TR hub with a Datsun 240Z it is a fairly simple conversion. Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis DeLap" To: "FOT" Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs > Amici - I have a question for those who are racing a TR4A - TR6. What > have you done to make the rear axle/hubs safe? Upgrades, modifications, > etc. > > Thanks > Dennis DeLap > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From igofaster at charter.net Mon Dec 3 07:12:03 2007 From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 6:12:03 -0800 Subject: [Fot] 1st Annual Eagles Canyon CVAR Race In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071203091203.27ENJ.151186.root@fepweb14> Good day to all! CVAR had the first official race at the brand new racetrack here in North Texas. FoT had three Triumphs in our 'Triumph Row'. Bob Kramerand his TR4, Tom Young with his TR3, and my GT6+. First, we had misty rain most of saturday but sunday cleared up nicely although windy.I'm still in training as a Novice 2 but boy... what a NICE track. Several elevation changes of 70 feet or so with lots of twisties. The track is 2.550 miles around and very challenging. Rookie as I am, I managed NOT to spin at all for the weekend as it was my main goal as I had spun twice at TWS last month. Thanks to Bob Kramer for the way cool FoT stickers! I also survived with no incidents, no mechanical issues, and still grinning over my GT6+! Take care all, Best regards, Bobby Whitehead #54 CVAR GT6+ From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Dec 3 07:28:46 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:28:46 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs Message-ID: What would you like to know about the hub failures? I nearly flipped my TR6 over when it stood on it's nose. The right rear hub broke off at the inner side as I was just coming out of a corner and accelerating WOT in 2nd gear. The tire went out the back of the car and the rear was thrown up high enough for it to clear out. I was told it would happen and I thought 'no, not to me'. I have also replaced the front hubs, another weak spot. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ---------------------------------------- From: "James Gray" Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 5:01 AM To: "'Geoff Byrne'" Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs Is there a source for photographs and/or detailed instructions regarding the 240Z conversion. I would like to learn more the hub failures. Jim g -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Geoff Byrne Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 5:08 AM To: Dennis DeLap; FOT Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs Dennis Do not race your TR with the standard hubs they will break. we have had 2 failues on track cars which very nearly lead to the death of the drivers. There are many many examples of hub failures. The design is terrible . We replace the TR hub with a Datsun 240Z it is a fairly simple conversion. Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis DeLap" To: "FOT" Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs > Amici - I have a question for those who are racing a TR4A - TR6. What > have you done to make the rear axle/hubs safe? Upgrades, modifications, > etc. > > Thanks > Dennis DeLap > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From EDENMA at aol.com Mon Dec 3 07:29:53 2007 From: EDENMA at aol.com (EDENMA at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:29:53 EST Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 13, Issue 2 Message-ID: In a message dated 12/2/2007 11:59:33 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. Thanks for helping spread the word! Bob Coan Hmm, must be a collector as there is certainly no place to legally race it in Hawaii! Cheers! Mark **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From bob at CoanPro.com Mon Dec 3 08:12:01 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 07:12:01 -0800 Subject: [Fot] nomination of Robert Smith Message-ID: <000c01c835be$dbd3ac40$937b04c0$@com> I second the nomination for Robert Smith. Bob Coan From dave at microworks.net Mon Dec 3 10:04:22 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 10:04:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racing in Hawaii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071203171108.VDW21007.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Hmmm... This may be news to SCCA members over there. http://www.sccahawaii.org/ http://www.khnl.com/Global/story.asp?S=6689021 http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Apr/07/ln/FP604070366.html http://www.na-motorsports.com/Tracks/HI/ http://www.hawaiiracingassoc.com/ >Hmm, must be a collector as there is certainly no place to legally race it >in Hawaii! > >Cheers! > >Mark From edenma at aol.com Mon Dec 3 13:15:46 2007 From: edenma at aol.com (edenma at aol.com) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:15:46 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA04006C2E03B0-C88-1684@WEBMAIL-DB13.sysops.aol.com> Hmm....well it's definatly news to some of us!? Guess?I have been gone too long! Cheers! Mark Hmmm... This may be news to SCCA members over there. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003 From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Dec 3 13:21:17 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:21:17 EST Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks Message-ID: In a message dated 12/03/2007 2:16:00 PM Central Standard Time, edenma at aol.com writes: > Hmm....well it's definatly news to some of us!? Guess?I have been gone too > long! > > Amici... All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Dec 3 14:33:39 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:33:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/03/2007 2:16:00 PM Central Standard Time, > edenma at aol.com writes: > > >> Hmm....well it's definatly news to some of us!? Guess?I have been gone too >> long! >> >> > > Amici... > > All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, > come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. Ya, but it's da kine. Cowabunga, Dude! > Bill (Damdinger) Aloha. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From don at carterdesignassociates.com Mon Dec 3 14:44:51 2007 From: don at carterdesignassociates.com (Don Carter) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:44:51 -0600 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man In-Reply-To: <475383FC.9080607@141.com> Message-ID: <007901c835f5$bbf25660$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> Thanks for sending this out Brad. I've had a standing argument with a drag racing friend of mine for years about the danger factors of drag racing compared to auto crossing. Of course he goes directly to the precautions he is required to take in his super comp dragster that does 200 in a quarter. I sent him this video to show the average, (OK maybe lower end), drag racer who shows up to "run" his car. I think it will help my case. WOW! I'm glad this guy wasn't strapped in, he could have...well, been hurt. I've never seen a Chevy come apart like that and I'm a Chevy man. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+don=carterdesignassociates.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+don=carterdesignassociates.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 10:20 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] One lucky man Its amazing he walked away from this. http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l157/Nifty_Fifty_1950/?action=view¤t =Luckiestmanontheplanet.flv Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitfiresuz at 141.com Mon Dec 3 15:30:10 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:30:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man Message-ID: <380-220071213223010109@M2W029.mail2web.com> Yes, and add in all of the other hazards like alcohol-fuel fires (can't see 'em) and starting-line engine detonations, and I would much rather be road racing! Susan :) Original Message: ----------------- From: Don Carter don at carterdesignassociates.com Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:44:51 -0600 To: brad.kahler at 141.com, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] One lucky man Thanks for sending this out Brad. I've had a standing argument with a drag racing friend of mine for years about the danger factors of drag racing compared to auto crossing. Of course he goes directly to the precautions he is required to take in his super comp dragster that does 200 in a quarter. I sent him this video to show the average, (OK maybe lower end), drag racer who shows up to "run" his car. I think it will help my case. WOW! I'm glad this guy wasn't strapped in, he could have...well, been hurt. I've never seen a Chevy come apart like that and I'm a Chevy man. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft. Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange From trhouse at greenapple.com Mon Dec 3 17:15:14 2007 From: trhouse at greenapple.com (Tom Householder) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:15:14 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks 1955 report In-Reply-To: <8CA04006C2E03B0-C88-1684@WEBMAIL-DB13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: on 12/3/07 3:15 PM, edenma at aol.com at edenma at aol.com wrote: > Hmm....well it's definatly news to some of us!? Guess?I have been gone too > long! > > Cheers! > > Mark > > > Hmmm... This may be news to SCCA members over there. Here is what I got recorded FYI 1955 SCCA Hawaii Race 1 Standard 10 Driver unknown Race 2 Thomas Richert Triumph TR2 No Number listed From brad.kahler at 141.com Mon Dec 3 17:32:28 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:32:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man In-Reply-To: <007901c835f5$bbf25660$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> References: <007901c835f5$bbf25660$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> Message-ID: <4754A01C.2040902@141.com> Don, I pulled this info off of u-tube. The guys name was Don Renfrow. "I doubt this was NHRA legal. All I heard was this; it was his first (or one of his first) runs in the car. he built it himself. he poorly welded and bolted the seat and buckle onto the floor pan. as you know, with a powerful car the body with twist and shake. it did this so much it broke away his seat and buckle. with the seat under him moving around he got scared and gave it more gas (clearly not thinking clearly, all instinct.) and there you go, lost control, over-corrected and rolled over." "That was the old Fremont Drag Strip. On certain days you could bring anything there and run it. That footage has to be over 25years old. Its an automall parkway now." He is indeed lucky to be alive. Brad Don Carter wrote: > Thanks for sending this out Brad. I've had a standing argument with a drag > racing friend of mine for years about the danger factors of drag racing > compared to auto crossing. Of course he goes directly to the precautions he > is required to take in his super comp dragster that does 200 in a quarter. > I sent him this video to show the average, (OK maybe lower end), drag racer > who shows up to "run" his car. I think it will help my case. WOW! I'm glad > this guy wasn't strapped in, he could have...well, been hurt. I've never > seen a Chevy come apart like that and I'm a Chevy man. From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 3 19:17:52 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 18:17:52 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks References: Message-ID: Geez. I really didn't know there was a track anywhere on the islands. That's kind of good news. I was considering buying an enduro cart to keep my racing jones in check. I might have to check this hilo thing out. I'm working on building a magazine (online) about stand up paddle surfing. Keeping my mind from turning to much now that I'm screwing off full time. I've had to learn PHP, MySQL and CSS (sort of) still working on it, but it's coming out pretty good www.kenalu.com . I plan to launch it in February. > Amici... > > All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, > come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. Ya, but it's da kine. Cowabunga, Dude! > Bill (Damdinger) Aloha. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dos_gusanos at msn.com Mon Dec 3 19:26:42 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:26:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man In-Reply-To: <4754A01C.2040902@141.com> References: <007901c835f5$bbf25660$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> <4754A01C.2040902@141.com> Message-ID: In Albuquerque, Racing, is Drag Racing. The local "Vintage" racing club tried to get these fast and furious types out to the road course but was unsuccessful due to the fact that at the drags your entry fee was $10 and you had to wear a (DOT)helmet if your car went over 110 mph. The road racers entry was $195 and no matter what you were in you had to have a SNELL helmet. Last year, a young guy lost his life when his Vette crashed and burned at the drags, not that a helmet would have saved him. I don't know what the safety requirements at the drag strip are this year.......................... From budscars at msn.com Mon Dec 3 20:21:18 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:21:18 -0800 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man References: <007901c835f5$bbf25660$59e8a8c0@donlaptop><4754A01C.2040902@141.com> Message-ID: Hi Gang...I read the FOT emails a lot..and .I say Very Little.....I have read a lot of Emails today about race car Safety Stuff.........Race Drivers Race! Racer Bud.. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Brad Kahler" ; "Don Carter" Cc: Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] One lucky man > In Albuquerque, Racing, is Drag Racing. The local "Vintage" racing club > tried > to get these fast and furious types out to the road course but was > unsuccessful due to the fact that at the drags your entry fee was $10 and > you > had to wear a (DOT)helmet if your car went over 110 mph. > > The road racers entry was $195 and no matter what you were in you had to > have > a SNELL helmet. Last year, a young guy lost his life when his Vette > crashed > and burned at the drags, not that a helmet would have saved him. I don't > know > what the safety requirements at the drag strip are this > year.......................... > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Mon Dec 3 21:11:39 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:11:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] 1st Annual Eagles Canyon CVAR Race In-Reply-To: <20071203091203.27ENJ.151186.root@fepweb14> Message-ID: <489862.70816.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bobby: Congrats on a "clean drive". I saw you moving to and from the grid yesterday but never had a chance to catch you and say hello. You were quite lucky not to be pitted on the hill...you got the full brute force of that 45 mph wind up there. BTW, other FOTer's present were John Price with his TVR and Joe Hovey and myself, both carless. I think we're goin enjoy this track once they grow some grass on those hills. Ed Barnard igofaster at charter.net wrote: Good day to all! CVAR had the first official race at the brand new racetrack here in North Texas. FoT had three Triumphs in our 'Triumph Row'. Bob Kramerand his TR4, Tom Young with his TR3, and my GT6+. First, we had misty rain most of saturday but sunday cleared up nicely although windy.I'm still in training as a Novice 2 but boy... what a NICE track. Several elevation changes of 70 feet or so with lots of twisties. The track is 2.550 miles around and very challenging. Rookie as I am, I managed NOT to spin at all for the weekend as it was my main goal as I had spun twice at TWS last month. Thanks to Bob Kramer for the way cool FoT stickers! I also survived with no incidents, no mechanical issues, and still grinning over my GT6+! Take care all, Best regards, Bobby Whitehead #54 CVAR GT6+ Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From EDENMA at aol.com Mon Dec 3 21:45:28 2007 From: EDENMA at aol.com (EDENMA at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 23:45:28 EST Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks Message-ID: In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:21:17 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, BillDentin writes: Amici... All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. Bill (Damdinger) Indeed Bill, it is! However, having been married to a girl from Hawaii for more than 20 years (read: she has tolerated me that long) the likelihood of my returning when we retire is great (particularly since I never wanted to leave to begin with!). So you see, if I wish to continue racing for the foreseeable future, I have a vested interest in the status of tracks (or lack thereof) in Hawaii. Realistically though, I guess my cars and I would be better off raced here in the mainland. The possibilities are, none the less, intriguing. Cheers! Mark **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From hottr6 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 4 07:48:45 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:48:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] NHRA [was One lucky man] Message-ID: Amici, When I built the Pantera, I made sure it met BOTH SCCA Solo and NHRA regs, as I ran both. That has been much more of a challenge with the TR, as NHRA does not sanction rag tops. Nevertheless, I have met and exceeded, in spirit, their regs for 9-sec cars. Some have argued that since I am at best able to do 14 ETs that I am going overboard on safety, I reply that hitting the wall at 90mph is worthy of extreme measures in mitigation. Safety first. Reliability second. Performance last. I'd rather finish a race in any place than momentarily lead and DNF. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007 From norlinengineering at comcast.net Tue Dec 4 09:03:21 2007 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:03:21 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c8368f$32765c20$020ba8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP> There's also a second SCCA region in Hawaii, the Big Island Region. http://www.bigislandscca.org/ Right now they are essentially autocrossing, but I know they are working with the developers of the new track. Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of EDENMA at aol.com Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:45 PM To: BillDentin at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:21:17 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, BillDentin writes: Amici... All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. Bill (Damdinger) Indeed Bill, it is! However, having been married to a girl from Hawaii for more than 20 years (read: she has tolerated me that long) the likelihood of my returning when we retire is great (particularly since I never wanted to leave to begin with!). So you see, if I wish to continue racing for the foreseeable future, I have a vested interest in the status of tracks (or lack thereof) in Hawaii. Realistically though, I guess my cars and I would be better off raced here in the mainland. The possibilities are, none the less, intriguing. Cheers! Mark **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Dec 4 09:49:03 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 11:49:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Fot] New Track Moves Forward in Northeast Message-ID: Hi, Some of you may care about this, others may not. NER SCCA has been working on a new track for about 10 years. Last night they got the go-ahead from the town of Palmer, MA - the local permitting is done, all that's left is the formal environmental regulations compliance (they are well on thier way to that hurdle). Read the article here: http://www.masslive.com/republican/stories/index.ssf?/base/news-12/1196761858231780.xml&coll=1#continue If you want to see some basic track info, go to: www.palmermotorsportspark.com There's not much info there yet, but there will be in the near future. The plan is a 2.5 mile natural terrain road course set in 650 acres of woods. Eventual plans should include a large skid pad a'la Beaver Run. At any rate, there's a possible venue to fill the "void" in the northeast that exists (and will exist even mor ein the near term) of available tracks. NHIS has been sold to one of the NASCAR kingpins, so the road course there is in jeopardy and Lime Rock hosts events from at least 4 local SCCA regions and a SCAD of other clubs (BMWCCA, Porsche club and so forth) and the track rental price is pretty much off the charts, so a new track is a welcome relief indeed! FWIW, the track is a for-profit LLC and at this time they are still looking for large investors - contac them if you want to invest some money in the project. Regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From trhouse at greenapple.com Tue Dec 4 10:57:19 2007 From: trhouse at greenapple.com (Tom Householder) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 12:57:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks In-Reply-To: <000301c8368f$32765c20$020ba8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP> Message-ID: on 12/4/07 11:03 AM, Norlin Engineering at norlinengineering at comcast.net wrote: > There's also a second SCCA region in Hawaii, the Big Island Region. > > http://www.bigislandscca.org/ > > Right now they are essentially autocrossing, but I know they are working > with the developers of the new track. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of EDENMA at aol.com > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:45 PM > To: BillDentin at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks > > > In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:21:17 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > BillDentin > writes: > > Amici... > > All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, > come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. > > Bill (Damdinger) > > > I was reading an old racing newsletter from the fifties . They generally had a cartoon or two in the publication characterizing some current activity . One was an aircraft carrier Steaming along with a Road race course layed out on the deck . The caption read "This has been going on ever since the Captain Got his subscription to MotoRacing magazine" Iwish I would have thought of that when I was a sailor ..I could have taken the TR with me!!!! T From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 4 11:04:43 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:04:43 EST Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? Message-ID: Looks bad in Washington and Oregon.... Anyone impacted? Joe A From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 4 12:21:42 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 11:21:42 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? References: Message-ID: I have to drive to Manzanita this morning to see if my beach house is still there, High possibility of tree damage, but we'll see. Other than that we're fine. Short power outage and the generator didn't fire up. Battery must be dead. I hear that damned thing running in maintenance mode every week for fifteen minutes and when I need it--no go. About the time I got ready to swap in a spare battery the power came on. It's a gorgeous day today--bright blue skies and sunny. Everything looks like it's been freshly washed cuz it was! -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Tue 12/4/2007 10:04 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? Looks bad in Washington and Oregon.... Anyone impacted? Joe A Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From greenman62 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 4 13:18:35 2007 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 20:18:35 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: `Haven't talked to the kids... I assume if they had problems I'd have heard about it. I just hope John left the "Westy" at home yesterday. Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:04:43 -0500 > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? > > Looks bad in Washington and Oregon.... > > Anyone impacted? > > Joe A > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jibjib at att.net Tue Dec 4 17:48:58 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:48:58 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <012f01c836d8$9fe94580$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Yeah, the awesome snow we got in the cascades over the late in the week and early in the weekend was soaked badly on Sunday and Monday. We'll get more later in the week and hopefully get our ski area open this weekend. Other than that, it was a non-issue for us. The rain and wind were pretty nasty, but we kept our electricity the whole time, probably because I finally bought a 7800 watt generator last year. All is will in the Brooks household. Jack -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:05 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? Looks bad in Washington and Oregon.... Anyone impacted? Joe A Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From brad.kahler at 141.com Tue Dec 4 21:33:52 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:33:52 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Lucky people Message-ID: <47562A30.4000309@141.com> I have no idea why these clips keep showing up on the old dodge trucks forum but they do. Both are just amazing. http://www.czabe.com/mediaclips/index.shtml?a=showclip&id=880 http://www.czabe.com/mediaclips/index.shtml?a=showclip&id=877 Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Dec 5 06:59:58 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 07:59:58 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Lucky people In-Reply-To: <47562A30.4000309@141.com> References: <47562A30.4000309@141.com> Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820B9C9EDA@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> The videos are cool but the Panic button is better. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:34 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Lucky people I have no idea why these clips keep showing up on the old dodge trucks forum but they do. Both are just amazing. http://www.czabe.com/mediaclips/index.shtml?a=showclip&id=880 http://www.czabe.com/mediaclips/index.shtml?a=showclip&id=877 Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vanlake at bellsouth.net Wed Dec 5 09:45:45 2007 From: vanlake at bellsouth.net (vanlake at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:45:45 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? Message-ID: <120520071645.29897.4756D5B90000184C000074C922218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> I also like more information on what I need to do to make my TR6 rear hubs stay together. Does anyone know of a supplier / parts house for the 240Z hubs? Is it just the outside portion that is of concern? Has anyone tried the Richard Goods CV setup for a racer? looks nice, pricey though. Thanks. Also, I had a couple dozen of the large color laminated decals of the FOT logo made up by a friend of mine, I am hoping to pass them out at events through out the year. Oldspeed 72 Mark From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 5 12:53:04 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:53:04 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? Message-ID: If you think you can have decent hubs on a TR6 for the price of crappy eBay parts, you are sadly mistaken. There is a lot of straight-forward machine work involved. Richard Good's CV hubs may look pricey, but they will not cost much more than a home-grown solution. Stop wasting time and get Richard's stuff (usual disclaimer here). BTW, does anyone know if Richard's hubs are related to the old SNG Barrett hubs? > Does anyone know of a supplier / parts house for the 240Z hubs? > Is it just the outside portion that is of concern? Has anyone > tried the Richard Goods CV setup for a racer? looks nice, pricey though. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista. + Windows Live. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_M ediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Wed Dec 5 14:09:43 2007 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:09:43 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? Message-ID: <20071205150943.ujaugof0rw4gk4ww@secure.uwalumni.com> It was asked: > BTW, does anyone know if Richard's hubs are > related to the old SNG Barrett hubs? I don't know if they're "related", but I certainly hope they're not identical. I ran two races with the SNG Barrett CV set-up in my TR6 a few years back, and decided to try something else when one failed -- sending the car into an airborne 360-degree flat spin that gave me an excellent view of my departed left rear wheel as it rolled merrily into the weeds. Jim Hill From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Wed Dec 5 15:00:50 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:00:50 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? References: Message-ID: <023a01c8378a$4c9f6c30$1b02a8c0@workstation3> I agree. Either get the Corvair hubs, Z car, the Good Parts hubs or the Quaife hubs from England. They are all about the same price(y). Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Ingate" To: Cc: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? > If you think you can have decent hubs on a TR6 for the price > of crappy eBay parts, you are sadly mistaken. There is a lot of > straight-forward machine work involved. Richard Good's CV hubs may look > pricey, but they will not cost much more than a home-grown solution. > Stop wasting time and get Richard's stuff (usual disclaimer here). > > BTW, does anyone know if Richard's hubs are related to the old SNG > Barrett hubs? > > > Does anyone know of a supplier / parts house for the 240Z hubs? > > Is it just the outside portion that is of concern? Has anyone > > tried the Richard Goods CV setup for a racer? looks nice, pricey though. > > Shane Ingate in NM > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista. + Windows Live. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_M > ediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Dec 5 15:09:41 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:09:41 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200712052209.lB5M9lnW229004@ns3.geneseo.net> At 01:53 PM 12/5/2007, Shane Ingate wrote: If you think you can have decent hubs on a TR6 for the price of crappy eBay parts, etc............... I have been talking to Southwick about possibly supplying uprated hubs for the TR6. As you may know, Southwick Machine and Design currently supplies the virtually unbreakable rear axle conversion for the straight axle cars. We are looking at doing hubs for the TR6. At least one of the previous suppliers has decided to no longer supply them and he says he would welcome some other supplier for them. We really don't want to stomp on any toes of anyone currently making these parts. At this point it is in the discussion stage. At the moment we are waiting to get some stock rear suspension parts so that we can do the engineering. We are somewhat concerned about the availability of raw material - Corvair and Datsun 240 Z parts are not available in the Midwest, but perhaps they are available new somewhere. Bob Southwick wants to look at using newer parts that are more plentiful. Since so many cars have independent suspension nowadays, there are some more recent possibilities. I think there is a very good chance that all this will happen, but not overnight. If you are not in a big hurry for these parts and can wait a few months to give us a chance to engineer it, then this would be a possibility for you. uncle jack From goodparts at verizon.net Wed Dec 5 16:13:38 2007 From: goodparts at verizon.net (Richard Good) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:13:38 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? In-Reply-To: <20071205150943.ujaugof0rw4gk4ww@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <20071205150943.ujaugof0rw4gk4ww@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <475730A2.8010903@verizon.net> My hubs are not related to SNG Barrett's. I was not aware of theirs. Can anyone elaborate on their design? Mine use a sealed double row ball bearing like you would find in a common front wheel drive hub. The wheel flange presses into the ID of the bearing then the drive axle goes through the splined hole in the wheel flange with a big nut on the outside. The bearings are housed in custom machined steel hubs that bolt into the trailing arms. Should be bullet proof. I am currently looking into offering the same hub with heavy duty u-joint axles in lieu of the CV's for a lower cost option. Regards, Richard Good Good Parts spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: >It was asked: > > > >>BTW, does anyone know if Richard's hubs are >>related to the old SNG Barrett hubs? >> >> > >I don't know if they're "related", but I certainly hope they're not identical. > >I ran two races with the SNG Barrett CV set-up in my TR6 a few years >back, and decided to try something else when one failed -- sending the >car into an airborne 360-degree flat spin that gave me an excellent >view of my departed left rear wheel as it rolled merrily into the weeds. > >Jim Hill >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From markjwea at msn.com Thu Dec 6 06:55:41 2007 From: markjwea at msn.com (MARK J WEATHERS) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 14:55:41 +0100 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? In-Reply-To: <120520071645.29897.4756D5B90000184C000074C922218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> References: <120520071645.29897.4756D5B90000184C000074C922218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> Message-ID: Datsun 510 hubs are an option also, not sure if they are the same as 240Z. I put them on my 6 several years ago. Mark Weathers> From: vanlake at bellsouth.net> To: fot at autox.team.net> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:45:45 +0000> CC: vanlake at bellsouth.net> Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ?> > I also like more information on what I need to do to make my TR6 rear hubs stay together. Does anyone know of a supplier / parts house for the 240Z hubs? Is it just the outside portion that is of concern? Has anyone tried the Richard Goods CV setup for a racer? looks nice, pricey though. Thanks.> > Also, I had a couple dozen of the large color laminated decals of the FOT logo made up by a friend of mine, I am hoping to pass them out at events through out the year. Oldspeed 72 Mark> _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From REK46 at aol.com Thu Dec 6 11:33:00 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 13:33:00 EST Subject: [Fot] Spitfire in junkyard Message-ID: If anyone in the Michigan area is interested: there is a fairly cherry Spitfire 1500...in a junkyard in Ypsilanti..at RTS Automotive 2835 Coolidge Ypsi...ph 734 485-7676..contact..'Nick'...this is betw Detroit and AnnArbor...this info is from a contact,so I did NOT see it myself....rick ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From gaf3 at charter.net Thu Dec 6 11:54:20 2007 From: gaf3 at charter.net (Glenn Franco) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:54:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire in junkyard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4758455C.8010507@charter.net> I just called RTS, Nick is off sick, but the gentleman that answered the phone says they want $2200 for it. I'm local if anyone is interested. I'm at my limit (6) for Triumphs. Glenn Franco 72 Spit race car under construction REK46 at aol.com wrote: > If anyone in the Michigan area is interested: there is a fairly cherry > Spitfire 1500...in a junkyard in Ypsilanti..at RTS Automotive 2835 Coolidge > Ypsi...ph 734 485-7676..contact..'Nick'...this is betw Detroit and AnnArbor...this > info is from a contact,so I did NOT see it myself....rick > > > > ************************************** > Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. > > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 6 14:11:17 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:11:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? References: <120520071645.29897.4756D5B90000184C000074C922218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> Message-ID: <003001c8384c$8ad7af40$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> 240z & 510 are the same. I put a set (via Steve Smith) on a GT6. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MARK J WEATHERS" To: ; Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? > Datsun 510 hubs are an option also, not sure if they are the same as 240Z. > I > put them on my 6 several years ago. > > Mark Weathers> From: vanlake at bellsouth.net> To: fot at autox.team.net> Date: > Wed, > 5 Dec 2007 16:45:45 +0000> CC: vanlake at bellsouth.net> Subject: [Fot] TR6 > rear > Hubs ?> > I also like more information on what I need to do to make my TR6 > rear hubs stay together. Does anyone know of a supplier / parts house for > the > 240Z hubs? Is it just the outside portion that is of concern? Has anyone > tried > the Richard Goods CV setup for a racer? looks nice, pricey though. > Thanks.> > > Also, I had a couple dozen of the large color laminated decals of the FOT > logo > made up by a friend of mine, I am hoping to pass them out at events > through > out the year. Oldspeed 72 Mark> > _______________________________________________> > http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Thu Dec 6 16:00:48 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:00:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Christmas special on spindle reinforcing kit Message-ID: <200712062300.lB6N0txV415411@ns3.geneseo.net> Contact me off line for a very special price on the front spindle reinforcing kit. Christmas special price good through 25 December. uncle jack From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Dec 6 19:37:15 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:37:15 EST Subject: [Fot] The plot thickens... Message-ID: Amici... Ahem! I think I am aware why I received the two copies of TRIUMPH WORLD.'The December issue arrived today and includes an article by my friend, Paul Richardson, about me. I'm described as a 'character'. I'll not argue that. Will this make me a schill or pimp? No matter! My evaluation remains the same. Character article not withstanding, this issue has great stuff on the Michelotti Ginevra TR5 (a Triumph prototype I was unaware of), a tribute to Dorothy Deen (she was a fox), TR6 and GT6 stuff, and new stuff I really enjoy about 'Flying Standards' (suicide doors and all). I always wondered who started the waterfall front grille. TRIUMPH or HUDSON? Whatever... Bill (Damdinger) **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From BillB at bnj.com Thu Dec 6 20:14:34 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:14:34 -0800 Subject: [Fot] The plot thickens... References: Message-ID: Doesn't really matter Bill, once you get past fifty being called a pimp or a schill is a compliment. It means A. you can still handle women, and B. People would actually care what you say. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: Thu 12/6/2007 6:37 PM To: 'fot at autox.team.net' Subject: [Fot] The plot thickens... Amici... Ahem! I think I am aware why I received the two copies of TRIUMPH WORLD.'The December issue arrived today and includes an article by my friend, Paul Richardson, about me. I'm described as a 'character'. I'll not argue that. Will this make me a schill or pimp? No matter! My evaluation remains the same. Character article not withstanding, this issue has great stuff on the Michelotti Ginevra TR5 (a Triumph prototype I was unaware of), a tribute to Dorothy Deen (she was a fox), TR6 and GT6 stuff, and new stuff I really enjoy about 'Flying Standards' (suicide doors and all). I always wondered who started the waterfall front grille. TRIUMPH or HUDSON? Whatever... Bill (Damdinger) **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4.tony at virgin.net Sat Dec 8 04:46:20 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:46:20 -0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <004201c8398f$f39cdf70$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Amici Id like to propose Neil Revington for membership of our esteemed institution. Ive known Neil for 10 years at least now and I honestly dont know anyone who is as steeped in TR's as he is. Neil runs Revington TR and im sure many of you have spoken to him or bought some of te quality parts he supplies, te majority after thorough testing on one of his own TR's. Neil studied aeronautical engineering as an Electro- Mechanical engineer in the early 70's whilst completing a Ministry of Defence apprenticeship in quality assurance. After spending a few years an MOD QA officer, the wider world beckoned and Neil set up Revington TR after a move to Somerset England. The company has grown over the last 30 years and has become synonymous with quality and service. Neil has been the driving force behind most of the improvements offered by Revington TR, many of which are tested on Neil's own TR2 ( bought for #17 when an apprentice) and TR5. Cars prepared by Revington TR have had success in all forms of motor sport from trials, through sprints and Hillclimbs to rallies and races. Neil has competed in many of the forms himself, winning the Southern Sprint and Hillclimb championship in 1983 and a host of international rallies ( list attached) Neil continues to develop new improvements on a daily basis whilst running Revington TR. Neil also owns 6VC, one of the three surviving ex works TR4 rally cars and co owns 3VC with myself and 3 others ....... 6VC gets out in hot competition fairly regularly too, so he and I are very much of the same breed .... albeit he is shorter and smarter. Any seconds for me please ? Regards Tony From tr4.tony at virgin.net Sat Dec 8 04:48:20 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:48:20 -0000 Subject: [Fot] Neil Revington Message-ID: <006201c83990$3b19ce80$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> so here's the attachment ........ ;-) [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/msword which had a name of Neil's competition sucessses.doc] From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Sat Dec 8 05:22:29 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 07:22:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: <004201c8398f$f39cdf70$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Message-ID: <006201c83995$007977d0$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> I second. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TR4Tony" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 6:46 AM Subject: [Fot] Nomination > Amici > > Id like to propose Neil Revington for membership of our esteemed > institution. > Ive known Neil for 10 years at least now and I honestly dont know anyone > who > is as steeped in TR's as he is. > > Neil runs Revington TR and im sure many of you have spoken to him or > bought > some of te quality parts he supplies, te majority after thorough testing > on > one of his own TR's. > > Neil studied aeronautical engineering as an Electro- Mechanical engineer > in > the early 70's whilst completing a Ministry of Defence apprenticeship in > quality assurance. > After spending a few years an MOD QA officer, the wider world beckoned and > Neil set up Revington TR after a move to Somerset England. > > The company has grown over the last 30 years and has become synonymous > with > quality and service. > > Neil has been the driving force behind most of the improvements offered by > Revington TR, many of which are tested on Neil's own TR2 ( bought for #17 > when > an apprentice) and TR5. > > Cars prepared by Revington TR have had success in all forms of motor sport > from trials, through sprints and Hillclimbs to rallies and races. > > Neil has competed in many of the forms himself, winning the Southern > Sprint > and Hillclimb championship in 1983 and a host of international rallies ( > list > attached) > Neil continues to develop new improvements on a daily basis whilst running > Revington TR. > > Neil also owns 6VC, one of the three surviving ex works TR4 rally cars and > co > owns 3VC with myself and 3 others ....... 6VC gets out in hot competition > fairly regularly too, so he and I are very much of the same breed .... > albeit > he is shorter and smarter. > > Any seconds for me please ? > > Regards > > Tony > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sat Dec 8 09:41:56 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:41:56 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: <004201c8398f$f39cdf70$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Message-ID: <001801c839b9$3ea31fb0$3f0ec548@RW> It is my pleasure to second the nomination of Neil, a welcome and worthy addition to this list. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TR4Tony" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 3:46 AM Subject: [Fot] Nomination > Amici > > Id like to propose Neil Revington for membership of our esteemed > institution. > Ive known Neil for 10 years at least now and I honestly dont know anyone > who > is as steeped in TR's as he is. > > Neil runs Revington TR and im sure many of you have spoken to him or > bought > some of te quality parts he supplies, te majority after thorough testing > on > one of his own TR's. > > Neil studied aeronautical engineering as an Electro- Mechanical engineer > in > the early 70's whilst completing a Ministry of Defence apprenticeship in > quality assurance. > After spending a few years an MOD QA officer, the wider world beckoned and > Neil set up Revington TR after a move to Somerset England. > > The company has grown over the last 30 years and has become synonymous > with > quality and service. > > Neil has been the driving force behind most of the improvements offered by > Revington TR, many of which are tested on Neil's own TR2 ( bought for #17 > when > an apprentice) and TR5. > > Cars prepared by Revington TR have had success in all forms of motor sport > from trials, through sprints and Hillclimbs to rallies and races. > > Neil has competed in many of the forms himself, winning the Southern > Sprint > and Hillclimb championship in 1983 and a host of international rallies ( > list > attached) > Neil continues to develop new improvements on a daily basis whilst running > Revington TR. > > Neil also owns 6VC, one of the three surviving ex works TR4 rally cars and > co > owns 3VC with myself and 3 others ....... 6VC gets out in hot competition > fairly regularly too, so he and I are very much of the same breed .... > albeit > he is shorter and smarter. > > Any seconds for me please ? > > Regards > > Tony > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 8 09:44:37 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:44:37 EST Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: Tony, Attachments do not go through on FOT email. Bradakis will also need Neil's eMail address to include it on the list. Please extend an FoT Inivitation to Neil Revington to join us at Watkins Glen, per our earlier discussion. Best Regards, Joe A > Amici > > Id like to propose Neil Revington for membership of our esteemed institution. > Ive known Neil for 10 years at least now and I honestly dont know anyone who > is as steeped in TR's as he is. > > Neil runs Revington TR and im sure many of you have spoken to him or bought > some of te quality parts he supplies, te majority after thorough testing on > one of his own TR's. > > Neil studied aeronautical engineering as an Electro- Mechanical engineer in > the early 70's whilst completing a Ministry of Defence apprenticeship in > quality assurance. > After spending a few years an MOD QA officer, the wider world beckoned and > Neil set up Revington TR after a move to Somerset England. > > The company has grown over the last 30 years and has become synonymous with > quality and service. > > Neil has been the driving force behind most of the improvements offered by > Revington TR, many of which are tested on Neil's own TR2 ( bought for #17 > when > an apprentice) and TR5. > > Cars prepared by Revington TR have had success in all forms of motor sport > from trials, through sprints and Hillclimbs to rallies and races. > > Neil has competed in many of the forms himself, winning the Southern Sprint > and Hillclimb championship in 1983 and a host of international rallies ( list > attached) > Neil continues to develop new improvements on a daily basis whilst running > Revington TR. > > Neil also owns 6VC, one of the three surviving ex works TR4 rally cars and co > owns 3VC with myself and 3 others ....... 6VC gets out in hot competition > fairly regularly too, so he and I are very much of the same breed .... albeit > he is shorter and smarter. > > Any seconds for me please ? > > Regards > > Tony > From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 8 14:54:58 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:54:58 EST Subject: [Fot] TR3 TR4 SS Heat Shields Message-ID: FOT...if you dont have a TR3 or TR4 Delete now. The first 25 heatshields I made were based on my TR4 #197, not for street cars. Then I changed the design because the street guys wanted them. I have a few of them left lying about.....so I put them on eBay. I failed to contact this list. Then I got a note from one FoT member, who is going to put one on his 63 TR4. TR3 TR4 Stainless Steel Carb HS-needs notch & hole Item number: 170175413401 So if you want one, they are eBay, or you can contact me directly. CHEAP! Going fast. Thanks! Joe A From Gt6steve at aol.com Sat Dec 8 17:58:57 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 19:58:57 EST Subject: [Fot] California excursion Message-ID: Amici, I'm thinking of a motorhome cruise arond SoCal around the Christmas season. I want to go see Ken G. in the North but the rest is open. What is that beach north of LA that always has the campers in it? A lot of rocks on the land side? Could I possibly find an open site there in the winter? Where else should we go while trying to stay in the Southwest? I would look for something between Christmas and New Years so as not to intrude on celebrations. Steve, Pat and the HOUNDS OF HELL.....before anyone offers invitations;-))) ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Thu Dec 6 05:32:35 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoff Byrne) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 23:32:35 +1100 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? In-Reply-To: <475730A2.8010903@verizon.net> References: <20071205150943.ujaugof0rw4gk4ww@secure.uwalumni.com> <475730A2.8010903@verizon.net> Message-ID: <53B4703851C5459B8F9B38B1E48539D6@GEOFFPC> FOT For the benefit of all let me briefly outline our experience in Australia with this problem. We have had two cars go end over end when the rear hub broke and the wheel going under the rear body catapulting the car into the air . Luckly with only minor driver injuries in both case. I believe the problem can be traced to the hub design with the two piece hub asemble of an outer axle and hub. The outer bearing is mounted on the hub and the inner bearing on the axle. The hub and axle are secured by a taper and key with a nut on the outer end of the axle. It takes 50 ton to pull a sound hub apart to replace the bearing and i have seem damage done as a result . If the nut is left on the axle to prevent it flying apart when under a press the shock load of it coming apart is taken on the nut and threaded end of the axle . several failures have occurred due to the axle breaking at the base of the tread. We have a lot of Triumph saloons in Aus which have the same rear end and the hubs are interchangeable so a lot of parts get mixed up over the years . We have also discovered there are two different assemblies with different tapers on the axle which only vary by about 7degrees and can easily be mixed with dire results. What we did at first was to get a Datsun rear axle assemble and cut the trailing arm material off the bearing carrier . Turn the outside of the carrier and machine out the inside of the existing TR hub and press in the Datsun carrier , the outer faces flush gives correct hub face alignment . The two were then nickel bronze welded together ( TIG or stick welding usually leads to cracking). The axles need to be shortened ( let me know if you want details on how to do this properly)and the hand brake cable bracked bolt recessed to complete the mods. This arrangement has served sereral of us well for a number of years with no problem . I have recently taken this much further . We have had complete hubs machined and fitted the Datsun axle to them with CV joints both ends and a small floating axle between the two CVs . This is a much smother drive line arrangement works very well but is expensive. The arrangement sounds very much like Richards Goods product. My advice is that nobody should be racing an independant rear end TR with the standard hubs they will fail ... sometime . You simple do not want a hub assemble where the bearing loads are not on one common member. Incidently the same problem exists with the GT6 Mkll rear end ( the roto flex coupling one). They are two piece and fail the same way. The first ever GT6 to race in Aus in 1968 flipped at Warwick Farm when the rear hub broke . I raced a GT6 through the 1970s with special forged one piece hubs. Big horse power (Kas motor) and big wheels and no problems. Hope this helps the sharing of info for FOT let me know if anyone would like more details Regards Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Good" To: ; Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? > My hubs are not related to SNG Barrett's. I was not aware of theirs. > Can anyone elaborate on their design? Mine use a sealed double row ball > bearing like you would find in a common front wheel drive hub. The > wheel flange presses into the ID of the bearing then the drive axle goes > through the splined hole in the wheel flange with a big nut on the > outside. The bearings are housed in custom machined steel hubs that > bolt into the trailing arms. Should be bullet proof. > > I am currently looking into offering the same hub with heavy duty > u-joint axles in lieu of the CV's for a lower cost option. > > Regards, > Richard Good > Good Parts > > spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: > >>It was asked: >> >> >> >>>BTW, does anyone know if Richard's hubs are >>>related to the old SNG Barrett hubs? >>> >>> >> >>I don't know if they're "related", but I certainly hope they're not >>identical. >> >>I ran two races with the SNG Barrett CV set-up in my TR6 a few years >>back, and decided to try something else when one failed -- sending the >>car into an airborne 360-degree flat spin that gave me an excellent >>view of my departed left rear wheel as it rolled merrily into the weeds. >> >>Jim Hill >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sat Dec 8 22:20:27 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 00:20:27 EST Subject: [Fot] Re Neil Revington Message-ID: In a message dated 12/08/07 10:59:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: > Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:41:56 -0800 > From: "Kas Kastner" > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination > To: "TR4Tony" , > Cc: n197tr4 at cs.com > Message-ID: <001801c839b9$3ea31fb0$3f0ec548 at RW> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > It is my pleasure to second the nomination of Neil, a welcome and worthy > addition to this list. I know Neil, Fine fellow. Memories of a wonderful barbecue in Belfast, Northern Ireland with Neil & his lovely family, also met him at several TR Register International meetings at Malvern, Worcestershire, in England. I third him. Regards Leon F Guyot From dobrosailor at yahoo.com Sun Dec 9 11:47:46 2007 From: dobrosailor at yahoo.com (mark eginton) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 10:47:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Watkins etc Message-ID: <94383.39510.qm@web90309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greetings all, Its been quite a while since I dove into the archives to see what's been going on, been a busy summer. I was very happy to see all the activities around next year's Watkins Glen event. I live in Ithaca 20 minutes away so if there is anything I can help with in terms of local knowledge (e.g. cops tolerate 10 mph over above 45mph...), please feel free to contact me if I can help. I also have parts in case someone has "issues" that weekend. Had a great time last year meeting FOTrs gathered around any marquis ending in ...mph or ...ote. Looking forward to meeting more of you this year. Great advice to check out www.grandprixfestival.com I found room in the kana event, 20 cars only, for something less life threatening. I have a vintage Harley that needs a ride to southern california this summer if anyone has room on the trip back. Would be happy to help with expenses... I also have a complete stock engine I am going to sell this winter. Anyone venture a guess at how much to ask and a good venue to sell it. Its a good running 83mm std with negligable cylinder ridges, good compression and high port head. Valve cover to oil pan, water pump housing to flywheel, including manifold, no carbs. Best regards to all, Mark Eginton mee23 at cornell.edu --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. From triosan at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 11:55:04 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 10:55:04 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rod needed Message-ID: <8cbd782d0712091055u759043a6o622e531a9216f7f1@mail.gmail.com> I need on TR6 rod -- the variety that does not have the hole in the body. Have 5, need one more [duh]. Anybody have one to spare/sell? Thanks -- Chuck Arnold From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 9 12:13:40 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 14:13:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen 2008 Message-ID: <551FE5B8.2A5F8942.00159EE9@cs.com> mark, i am sure we can find something for you to do...several cars likely need co-drivers. off track events in the village is a big part of this weekend. your advice to visit the website is a good one. triumphs will be favored. but space is limited and early registration is advised. grandprixfestival.com joe a >Greetings all, > > Its been quite a while since I dove into the archives to see what's been going on, been a busy summer. I was very happy to see all the activities around next year's Watkins Glen event. I live in Ithaca 20 minutes away so if there is anything I can help with in terms of local knowledge (e.g. cops tolerate 10 mph over above 45mph...), please feel free to contact me if I can help. I also have parts in case someone has "issues" that weekend. > > Had a great time last year meeting FOTrs gathered around any marquis ending in ...mph or ...ote. Looking forward to meeting more of you this year. > > Great advice to check out www.grandprixfestival.com I found room in the kana event, 20 cars only, for something less life threatening. > > I have a vintage Harley that needs a ride to southern california this summer if anyone has room on the trip back. Would be happy to help with expenses... > > I also have a complete stock engine I am going to sell this winter. Anyone venture a guess at how much to ask and a good venue to sell it. Its a good running 83mm std with negligable cylinder ridges, good compression and high port head. Valve cover to oil pan, water pump housing to flywheel, including manifold, no carbs. > > Best regards to all, > > Mark Eginton > mee23 at cornell.edu > > > >--------------------------------- >Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jeff_durant at comcast.net Sun Dec 9 13:34:06 2007 From: jeff_durant at comcast.net (jeff_durant at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 20:34:06 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rod needed In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0712091055u759043a6o622e531a9216f7f1@mail.gmail.com> References: <8cbd782d0712091055u759043a6o622e531a9216f7f1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <578512221-1197232591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-83594374-@bxe122.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Chuck, I'll throw one in the package with the PI parts. I've plenty. Jeff Durant Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Chuck Arnold" Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 10:55:04 To:Friends , Triumph <6pack at autox.team.net> Subject: [Fot] TR6 rod needed I need on TR6 rod -- the variety that does not have the hole in the body. Have 5, need one more [duh]. Anybody have one to spare/sell? Thanks -- Chuck Arnold Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sun Dec 9 14:55:28 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 15:55:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] rear hubs Message-ID: <200712092155.lB9Ltaxn445885@ns3.geneseo.net> Hey Allen -- big discussion on the FOT about rear hubs for the TR6. What do you do for unbreakable rear hubs? uncle jack From awashatko at wi.rr.com Sun Dec 9 16:16:20 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 17:16:20 -0600 Subject: [Fot] rear hubs In-Reply-To: <200712092155.lB9Ltaxn445885@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200712092155.lB9Ltaxn445885@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: Uncle Jack, OK...my two cents. I'm using the hubs provided by David Wingett who has already weighed in. I made this modification awhile ago when I changed to tires that provided more "stick" and transferred much more load to the hubs. They have worked well without issue. Thank you David. I would probably recommend using the setup Goodparts is now offering. As you know, David seems to be out of the business of providing hubs. Richard's setup offers the CV joints, rated axles and easier to source replacement parts (bearings). Overall, a very complete system. His quality is always top notch. Allen On Dec 9, 2007, at 3:55 PM, Jack W. Drews wrote: > Hey Allen -- big discussion on the FOT about rear hubs for the TR6. > What do you do for unbreakable rear hubs? > > uncle jack > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 10 09:41:07 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:41:07 EST Subject: [Fot] Greg (Lunker) Hilyer has thrown his hat into the ring-THE GLEN 2008 Message-ID: FoT Greg has confirmed his plan to travel from New Mexico to New York with his TR3......Tom Strange...you can add GREG to the burgeoning excel spreadsheet as an entrant..... lunkercars at earthlink.net New FOT Robert P Smith is giving some consideration to making the trip from the BIG ISLAND with his young son, at least to attend. It's a party worth the plane ticket. Joe A From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 10 09:48:00 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:48:00 EST Subject: [Fot] Ted Schumacher- dba TSI Contribution to FOT Message-ID: FOT Ted recently sent a very generous check to the Friends of Triumph, by skimming his profit off of FOT Shirt Sales. I am not sure of what Ted's plans will be for the 'official' WATKINS GLEN SHIRT for 2008, but it will sort itself out as we know more about what we are going to do for shirts and their associated costs and price. Thank you to TSI for supporting the FOT coffers. Joe A From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Tue Dec 11 08:18:23 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:18:23 -0600 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound In-Reply-To: <475e9c67.249.4e0b.21914@cogeco.ca> References: <475e9c67.249.4e0b.21914@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <200712111518.lBBFIWtH053505@ns3.geneseo.net> Q: At 08:19 AM 12/11/2007, amcewen2 at cogeco.ca wrote: Just curious, does anybody know what the period road tests recorded for the top speed of the TR3? I remember reading the early Top speed model did a high speed run to 125mph but I'm assuming that was with wheel spats and no windscreen etc.. I'm curious about the standard car. Also does anybody have a recording of the horn? (mp3 or wav format). Thanks, Art. A. According to Road and Track of the era, stats went like this: TR2,1954 Top speed 95.9 no overdrive 103.8 in OD TR3 - 1956- one more ft lb torque R & T recorded top end at 105 Factory said 108 0-60 12 sec TR4 was leaps and bounds better (haha) factory said top end 110 0 - 60 10.5 By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville 140 hp on the engine dyno Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better salt conditions. It's amusing to me that the technical problems encountered were flywheel bolts shearing off and oil pump drive failure -- both of these problems are still common on vintage race cars if you don't use ARP bolts to hold on the flywheel and if you don't radius the ears on the oil pump. These problems almost never occur on street cars. >_______________________________________________ > >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >http://www.vtr.org > > >Triumphs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > >http://www.team.net/archive From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Dec 11 08:32:05 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:32:05 EST Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound Message-ID: In a message dated 12/11/2007 9:19:36 AM Central Standard Time, vinttr4 at geneseo.net writes: > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > 140 hp on the engine dyno > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > salt conditions. > > Amici... Watched The World's Fastest Indian on Showtime last night. Neat movie. Sure made me think of all of the 'backyard' engineers/mechanics we have as members of the FOT. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From kaskas at cox.net Tue Dec 11 09:06:13 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:06:13 -0800 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound References: <475e9c67.249.4e0b.21914@cogeco.ca> <200712111518.lBBFIWtH053505@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <002701c83c0f$c0b5b910$3f0ec548@RW> Just a bit of info on our Salt Flats run, that 128.2 MPH was an average speed over the timed section of 1/4 mile. and also the Salt is at 4000 feet altitude. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack W. Drews" To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 7:18 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > Q: > > At 08:19 AM 12/11/2007, amcewen2 at cogeco.ca wrote: > Just curious, does anybody know what the period road tests recorded > for the top speed of the TR3? I remember reading > the early Top speed model did a high speed run to 125mph but I'm > assuming that was with wheel spats and no windscreen etc.. I'm > curious about the standard car. > > Also does anybody have a recording of the horn? (mp3 or wav format). > > Thanks, > > Art. > > A. > > According to Road and Track of the era, stats went like this: > > TR2,1954 > > Top speed 95.9 no overdrive > 103.8 in OD > > TR3 - 1956- one more ft lb torque > R & T recorded top end at 105 > Factory said 108 > 0-60 12 sec > > TR4 was leaps and bounds better (haha) > factory said top end 110 > 0 - 60 10.5 > > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > 140 hp on the engine dyno > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > salt conditions. > > It's amusing to me that the technical problems encountered were > flywheel bolts shearing off and oil pump drive failure -- both of > these problems are still common on vintage race cars if you don't use > ARP bolts to hold on the flywheel and if you don't radius the ears on > the oil pump. These problems almost never occur on street cars. > > >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >>http://www.vtr.org >> >> >>Triumphs at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs >> >>http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Tue Dec 11 10:18:45 2007 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:18:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR3A Engine sound References: <475e9c67.249.4e0b.21914@cogeco.ca> <200712111518.lBBFIWtH053505@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <001c01c83c19$e3dab7b0$6401a8c0@Elliott> I don't have the horn sound, but the "web-mechanic" (sort of like a web master but better) for the web site of the Montreal Triumph Club has the sound of the 4-cylinder TR engine when you go there and also onto some of the menus on the left side. Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A, Montreal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack W. Drews" To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > Q: > > At 08:19 AM 12/11/2007, amcewen2 at cogeco.ca wrote: > Just curious, does anybody know what the period road tests recorded > for the top speed of the TR3? I remember reading > the early Top speed model did a high speed run to 125mph but I'm > assuming that was with wheel spats and no windscreen etc.. I'm > curious about the standard car. > > Also does anybody have a recording of the horn? (mp3 or wav format). > > Thanks, > > Art. > > A. > > According to Road and Track of the era, stats went like this: > > TR2,1954 > > Top speed 95.9 no overdrive > 103.8 in OD > > TR3 - 1956- one more ft lb torque > R & T recorded top end at 105 > Factory said 108 > 0-60 12 sec > > TR4 was leaps and bounds better (haha) > factory said top end 110 > 0 - 60 10.5 > > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > 140 hp on the engine dyno > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > salt conditions. > > It's amusing to me that the technical problems encountered were > flywheel bolts shearing off and oil pump drive failure -- both of > these problems are still common on vintage race cars if you don't use > ARP bolts to hold on the flywheel and if you don't radius the ears on > the oil pump. These problems almost never occur on street cars. > > >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >>http://www.vtr.org >> >> >>Triumphs at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs >> >>http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Tue Dec 11 10:21:04 2007 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:21:04 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fw: TR3A Engine sound Message-ID: <002a01c83c1a$387e32b0$6401a8c0@Elliott> I forgot to add the link. http://www.rucompatible.com/triumphmtl/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> To: "Jack W. Drews" ; ; Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:18 PM Subject: TR3A Engine sound >I don't have the horn sound, but the "web-mechanic" (sort of like a web >master but better) for the web site of the Montreal Triumph Club has the >sound of the 4-cylinder TR engine when you go there and also onto some of >the menus on the left side. > > Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A, Montreal > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack W. Drews" > To: ; ; > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:18 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > > >> Q: >> >> At 08:19 AM 12/11/2007, amcewen2 at cogeco.ca wrote: >> Just curious, does anybody know what the period road tests recorded >> for the top speed of the TR3? I remember reading >> the early Top speed model did a high speed run to 125mph but I'm >> assuming that was with wheel spats and no windscreen etc.. I'm >> curious about the standard car. >> >> Also does anybody have a recording of the horn? (mp3 or wav format). >> >> Thanks, >> >> Art. >> >> A. >> >> According to Road and Track of the era, stats went like this: >> >> TR2,1954 >> >> Top speed 95.9 no overdrive >> 103.8 in OD >> >> TR3 - 1956- one more ft lb torque >> R & T recorded top end at 105 >> Factory said 108 >> 0-60 12 sec >> >> TR4 was leaps and bounds better (haha) >> factory said top end 110 >> 0 - 60 10.5 >> >> By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville >> 140 hp on the engine dyno >> Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with >> SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better >> salt conditions. >> >> It's amusing to me that the technical problems encountered were >> flywheel bolts shearing off and oil pump drive failure -- both of >> these problems are still common on vintage race cars if you don't use >> ARP bolts to hold on the flywheel and if you don't radius the ears on >> the oil pump. These problems almost never occur on street cars. >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>> >>>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>>This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >>>http://www.vtr.org >>> >>> >>>Triumphs at autox.team.net >>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs >>> >>>http://www.team.net/archive >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tlizzard at msn.com Tue Dec 11 10:27:52 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:27:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound References: Message-ID: Not sure about in the day, but my TR3A street car, with Webers, a header, 2.2 liner kit, 3.7 axle and O.D. did an honest 111 mph once. Felt like 200... Hehe. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: BillDentin at aol.com To: vinttr4 at geneseo.net ; amcewen2 at cogeco.ca ; triumphs at autox.team.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound In a message dated 12/11/2007 9:19:36 AM Central Standard Time, vinttr4 at geneseo.net writes: > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > 140 hp on the engine dyno > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > salt conditions. > > Amici... Watched The World's Fastest Indian on Showtime last night. Neat movie. Sure made me think of all of the 'backyard' engineers/mechanics we have as members of the FOT. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From koblinger at verizon.net Tue Dec 11 11:11:12 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:11:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound Message-ID: <18080413.18664781197396672854.JavaMail.root@vms170.mailsrvcs.net> >From: Kas Kastner Kas, I've always wondered, do cars at Bonneville ever really hook-up, or are you getting wheel spin all the way down the course? Cheers, Kurt O. >Date: 2007/12/11 Tue AM 10:06:13 CST >To: amcewen2 at cogeco.ca, triumphs at autox.team.net, fot at autox.team.net, "Jack W. Drews" >Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound >Just a bit of info on our Salt Flats run, that 128.2 MPH was an average >speed over the timed section of 1/4 mile. and also the Salt is at 4000 feet >altitude. From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 11 11:58:56 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:58:56 -0800 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound References: Message-ID: With a 3.7 axle on Hoosier Speedsters I saw 6400 RPM at Brainerd in turn two, tucked in behind a Porsche whale tail with an added wing. Of course I was kind of busy, but it sure was fun. By my calculations that's 133, but I might have made an error. I think that's the fastest I've ever gone in Peyote, though I was also out of revs in the back straight at VIR and the front straight at Road Atlanta -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Terry Stetler Sent: Tue 12/11/2007 9:27 AM To: vinttr4 at geneseo.net; amcewen2 at cogeco.ca; triumphs at autox.team.net; fot at autox.team.net; BillDentin at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound Not sure about in the day, but my TR3A street car, with Webers, a header, 2.2 liner kit, 3.7 axle and O.D. did an honest 111 mph once. Felt like 200... Hehe. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: BillDentin at aol.com To: vinttr4 at geneseo.net ; amcewen2 at cogeco.ca ; triumphs at autox.team.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound In a message dated 12/11/2007 9:19:36 AM Central Standard Time, vinttr4 at geneseo.net writes: > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > 140 hp on the engine dyno > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > salt conditions. > > Amici... Watched The World's Fastest Indian on Showtime last night. Neat movie. Sure made me think of all of the 'backyard' engineers/mechanics we have as members of the FOT. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From hottr6 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 11 12:27:12 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:27:12 -0500 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound Message-ID: I didn't know the TR3 needed a horn as it is not fast enough to get out of its own way. Jus kiddin'......... ;) I'm snowed in today, so I'm not moving very fast either. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007 From Gt6steve at aol.com Tue Dec 11 13:58:53 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:58:53 EST Subject: [Fot] Tubing for Triumph Message-ID: Hey tube fetishists, I need some help on a couple things. Firstly being hydraulic style tubing. Have you any thoughts on replacing the braided steel lines running to my drysump tank with hard steel or aluminum lines. I'm thinking the area in the cockpit can be cleaned up with hard lines. I'm looking at two runs of 3/4 (-12) from the firewall in front of the driver to the right rear of the passenger seat well. Second search is for header tubing. Where do we buy the thinwall tube for making headers? Just mils steel, I'll leave the Inconel to the experts. Thanx in advance, Steve Smith **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From triosan at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 14:05:26 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:05:26 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Tubing for Triumph In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8cbd782d0712111305r6dddd111pcc6e8a5ab65c96a@mail.gmail.com> Steve, I have had good results with Burns Stainless for tubing and for design. Talk to Casey. www.burnsstainless.com casey at burnsstainless.com On Dec 11, 2007 12:58 PM, wrote: > Hey tube fetishists, I need some help on a couple things. > > Firstly being hydraulic style tubing. Have you any thoughts on replacing the > braided steel lines running to my drysump tank with hard steel or aluminum > lines. I'm thinking the area in the cockpit can be cleaned up with hard lines. > I'm looking at two runs of 3/4 (-12) from the firewall in front of the driver > to the right rear of the passenger seat well. > > Second search is for header tubing. Where do we buy the thinwall tube for > making headers? Just mils steel, I'll leave the Inconel to the experts. > > Thanx in advance, Steve Smith > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From chasgee at aol.com Tue Dec 11 17:31:09 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:31:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Tubing for Triumph In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA0A6D6CC33E8C-F40-3175@webmail-me12.sysops.aol.com> Steve, By a cheap V-8 header set from someone like Speedway or Summit.? A kit with all the bent tubes in the diameter you need.? This way you can cut to get the bends you need and weld it all together. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:58 pm Subject: [Fot] Tubing for Triumph Hey tube fetishists, I need some help on a couple things. Firstly being hydraulic style tubing. Have you any thoughts on replacing the braided steel lines running to my drysump tank with hard steel or aluminum lines. I'm thinking the area in the cockpit can be cleaned up with hard lines. I'm looking at two runs of 3/4 (-12) from the firewall in front of the driver to the right rear of the passenger seat well. Second search is for header tubing. Where do we buy the thinwall tube for making headers? Just mils steel, I'll leave the Inconel to the experts. Thanx in advance, Steve Smith **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com From Gt6steve at aol.com Tue Dec 11 18:57:12 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:57:12 EST Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Tubing for Triumph Message-ID: **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Return-path: From: Gt6steve at aol.com Full-name: Gt6steve Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:56:32 EST Subject: Re: [Fot] Tubing for Triumph To: Chasgee at aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10705 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Thanx Chuck, I'd forgotten Speedway. Last go'round I bought a box of "misbends". You're right. There's enough good bits in there to cobble up most anything. Are you and Mike up for a "road trip"? ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Wed Dec 12 00:53:28 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoff Byrne) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:53:28 +1100 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fastest record we have in Aus is a TR3A doing 151mph down conrod straight at Bathurst BUT it is down hill with a very looong straight Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Terry Stetler" ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 5:58 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > With a 3.7 axle on Hoosier Speedsters I saw 6400 RPM at Brainerd in turn > two, > tucked in behind a Porsche whale tail with an added wing. Of course I was > kind > of busy, but it sure was fun. By my calculations that's 133, but I might > have > made an error. I think that's the fastest I've ever gone in Peyote, though > I > was also out of revs in the back straight at VIR and the front straight at > Road Atlanta > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Terry Stetler > Sent: Tue 12/11/2007 9:27 AM > To: vinttr4 at geneseo.net; amcewen2 at cogeco.ca; triumphs at autox.team.net; > fot at autox.team.net; BillDentin at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > > Not sure about in the day, but my TR3A street car, with Webers, a header, > 2.2 > liner kit, 3.7 axle and O.D. did an honest 111 mph once. > > Felt like 200... > > Hehe. > > Terry Stetler > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BillDentin at aol.com > To: vinttr4 at geneseo.net ; > amcewen2 at cogeco.ca ; > triumphs at autox.team.net ; > fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:32 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > > > In a message dated 12/11/2007 9:19:36 AM Central Standard Time, > vinttr4 at geneseo.net writes: > > > > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > > 140 hp on the engine dyno > > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > > salt conditions. > > > > > > Amici... > > Watched The World's Fastest Indian on Showtime last night. Neat movie. > Sure > made me think of all of the 'backyard' engineers/mechanics we have as > members > of the FOT. > > Bill (Damdinger) > > > ************************************** > See AOL's top rated > recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004 aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004>) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot stinfo/fot> > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Dec 12 07:03:45 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:03:45 EST Subject: [Fot] Offer: Alloy Head Lamp Replacements Decal Installed Message-ID: FoT, I am going to make up some sets of spun aluminum headlamp replacements with the P-700 Lucas Tripod decal installed...for a couple of FoT. Special Price....thought I should offer to everyone. Check in with me for price and picture, if you are interested. They are available at Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies, separately, too. Thanks N197tr4 at cs.com From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Wed Dec 12 07:03:49 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:03:49 -0500 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound References: Message-ID: <000001c83cc7$e8270950$0200a8c0@Desktop> OUCH! OK 3 guys its your turn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Ingate" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound >I didn't know the TR3 needed a horn as it is not fast enough > to get out of its own way. > > Jus kiddin'......... ;) > > I'm snowed in today, so I'm not moving very fast either. > > Shane Ingate in NM > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. > http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Wed Dec 12 07:05:35 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:05:35 -0500 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound Message-ID: <000801c83cc8$11917410$0200a8c0@Desktop> OUCH! OK 3 guys its your turn ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shane Ingate" > To: "Friends of Triumph" > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 2:27 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > > >>I didn't know the TR3 needed a horn as it is not fast enough >> to get out of its own way. >> >> Jus kiddin'......... ;) >> >> I'm snowed in today, so I'm not moving very fast either. >> >> Shane Ingate in NM >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. >> http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007 >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Wed Dec 12 09:33:57 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:33:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Message-ID: <47600D75.1090709@bradakis.com> Tuesday the 11th was the 11th anniversary of this list. Thanks to you all who have made it what it is! mjb. From REK46 at aol.com Wed Dec 12 09:50:26 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:50:26 EST Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Message-ID: and my birthday.........50 plus 11 ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From spitfiresuz at 141.com Wed Dec 12 10:24:03 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:24:03 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Message-ID: <380-220071231217243453@M2W012.mail2web.com> And especially here's to YOU, Mark! You're the one who made it so we could make it what it is! Happy Anniversary everyone! Keep Triumphing, Susan :) Original Message: ----------------- From: Mark J. Bradakis mark at bradakis.com Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:33:57 -0700 To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Tuesday the 11th was the 11th anniversary of this list. Thanks to you all who have made it what it is! mjb. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE  Free email based on Microsoft. Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE From emanteno at comcast.net Wed Dec 12 10:42:34 2007 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:42:34 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Message-ID: <121220071742.25972.47601D8A00077D8E000065742200735446970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "spitfiresuz at 141.com" > And especially here's to YOU, Mark! THANKS, Mark, for making it happen. From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Wed Dec 12 11:09:33 2007 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (JRH) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:09:33 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! References: <121220071742.25972.47601D8A00077D8E000065742200735446970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <03f901c83cea$276196e0$a6aee246@gcllawyers.local> Irv "emanteno" Korey wrote: >>> Here's to us! >> And especially here's to YOU, Mark! > THANKS, Mark, for making it happen. Thanks Indeed! And a special thanks for reminding me how old I am :-) Jim Hill Triumph TR-6 Ford Prowler From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Dec 12 16:15:42 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:15:42 EST Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Message-ID: Time goes by quickly when you are alive. Thanks Mark! Joe A > Tuesday the 11th was the 11th anniversary of this list. Thanks to you > all who have made it what it is! > > mjb. > From don at carterdesignassociates.com Wed Dec 12 16:35:56 2007 From: don at carterdesignassociates.com (Don Carter) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:35:56 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003c01c83d17$c147cef0$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> Project well done, MJB. Without this resource it would be difficult for me to keep a couple or three Triumphs going. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com -> Tuesday the 11th was the 11th anniversary of this list. Thanks to you > all who have made it what it is! > > mjb. > Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From don at carterdesignassociates.com Wed Dec 12 16:46:15 2007 From: don at carterdesignassociates.com (Don Carter) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:46:15 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003f01c83d19$3241d0f0$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> Happy to All!!! A few weeks ago I asked for diagnostic help with a right front brake that was locking up on me. I was trying to blame everything on parts that I hadn't already replaced, and refused to blame any new parts like the caliper itself. It was the caliper itself. Once again proving the FOT gang was right and parts can be faulty even if new. Thanks, Joe A and John Lye for the help. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rjl at gt-classics.com Wed Dec 12 19:25:29 2007 From: rjl at gt-classics.com (R. John Lye) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:25:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! In-Reply-To: <47600D75.1090709@bradakis.com> References: <47600D75.1090709@bradakis.com> Message-ID: At 11:33 AM 12/12/2007, Mark J. Bradakis wrote: >Tuesday the 11th was the 11th anniversary of this list. Thanks to you >all who have made it what it is! Wow, has it really been that long since that evening at Mid-Ohio, when Joe A. and I first talked about an idea that he had, and I knew just the person who could make it happen? Amazing. Good job, Mark. Its been a great resource all these years. R. John Lye rjl6n at cstone.net From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Wed Dec 12 21:53:31 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:53:31 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FW: part availablity Message-ID: <000501c83d44$1bf15390$6401a8c0@blake1> FYI I was having trouble finding a steering shaft coupler or U-joint in the 9/16  36 size used on the TR4 rack. If anyone needs one, the part numbers for Borgeson Univeral are below. I am not sure for what other models this might apply. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: Gil Evans [mailto:Gil at borgeson.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 7:08 AM To: Greg & Alison Blake Subject: RE: part availablity Greg, We have this in a coupler or a u-joint. The coupler is Part No. 311200 at $19.73, the u-joint is Part No. 011264 at $72.70. Just give us a call at 860-482-8283 if you'd like to order. We accept Visa, Mastercard, and Discover credit cards and both items are in stock. Thanks, Gil Evans Borgeson Universal Co. _____ From: Greg & Alison Blake [mailto:ablake2 at austin.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:57 AM To: Gil Evans Subject: part availablity I need a 9/16 x 36 spline with a > smooth bore on the other end this can be a coupler or U joint. Do you have this part and how much are they and can I order it direct? Thanks, Greg From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Wed Dec 12 21:26:24 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:26:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] 2008 North-Atlantic Production Car Challenge Message-ID: <908718.92064.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> FOT, I am sending out an email the members of the list to enlist the assistance of this well connected group of triumph enthusiasts. As many know (others may not), I race an HP classed MKII spitfire with the SCCA. I have been running the car since a complete "resurrection" back in 2004. Over the course of 2007, I experienced a decline in attendance at many of the great races in the Northeast division of the SCCA. The production classes were affected for several reasons, and over the last couple months the most notable objection (the run group) was addressed and changes were made and 2008 should be better. These changes are specific to the upper northeast and I am excited about seeing an improvement in attendance in the coming year. While I had some "down time" I thought about an additional way to improve attendance at the regional races in the northeast and I developed a new production car series that has just been launched to the current drivers earlier this week. Now that the current drivers have been contacted, I wanted to introduce the series to the members of the FOT. My reason is that we all know a driver who has a car that has been taking up space in a barn for several years and just needs that little push to bring the car out. Now, I realize the majority of the participants of FOT have triumphs (obviously), but we may have friends with triumphs just itching to get back on the track as well as friends with other marques. My request is that if anyone knows a driver/ car in the northeast that would be interested in participating or someone on the list that is interested in learning more, please direct those individuals to www.production-car.com this website is the official website of the North-Atlantic Production Car Challenge. Partial details about the series can be found on the website with more coming soon. And I encourage those interested in following SCCA racing in the NEDIV to stay tuned to the website throughout the season. For anyone interested, there are contingency/ sponsorship opportunities available. Please feel free to contact me off list if anyone is interested in discussing such opportunities. I am very excited about the series and the feedback so far has been very favorable. thanks for your time Jay R. Creel #44 Jaxon Motorsports Triumph Spitfire ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From BillB at bnj.com Wed Dec 12 23:08:26 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:08:26 -0800 Subject: [Fot] FW: part availablity References: <000501c83d44$1bf15390$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: I just got finished building a complete Borgeson steering system for Peyote. The old steering shaft and coupler was pretty dodgy, especially considering the speeds that Peyote is capable of. It is funny to look at the steering systems that we depend on in our cars and what's considered minimally acceptable in a modern race car. At the very least consider replacing all the grade eight (or less!!) bolts with properly sized and shouldered aircraft bolts. The pinch bolt on my universal failed when I loosened it. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Greg & Alison Blake Sent: Wed 12/12/2007 8:53 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] FW: part availablity FYI I was having trouble finding a steering shaft coupler or U-joint in the 9/16  36 size used on the TR4 rack. If anyone needs one, the part numbers for Borgeson Univeral are below. I am not sure for what other models this might apply. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: Gil Evans [mailto:Gil at borgeson.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 7:08 AM To: Greg & Alison Blake Subject: RE: part availablity Greg, We have this in a coupler or a u-joint. The coupler is Part No. 311200 at $19.73, the u-joint is Part No. 011264 at $72.70. Just give us a call at 860-482-8283 if you'd like to order. We accept Visa, Mastercard, and Discover credit cards and both items are in stock. Thanks, Gil Evans Borgeson Universal Co. _____ From: Greg & Alison Blake [mailto:ablake2 at austin.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:57 AM To: Gil Evans Subject: part availablity I need a 9/16 x 36 spline with a > smooth bore on the other end this can be a coupler or U joint. Do you have this part and how much are they and can I order it direct? Thanks, Greg Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Dec 13 09:16:07 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:16:07 EST Subject: [Fot] FoT Volunteer Needed for Watkins Glen Message-ID: List: It appears that we will have a couple VIP folks coming to The Glen. And their very special Triumph. I am not looking for a full time 'baby sitter', but some non racing FoT(s) who knows the ropes at the Glen. Especially, the downtown Village Activites. Our GUESTs will have their own cars, for transportation and will not need major hand holding. Reservations are being made for them at the Hampton Inn in Painted Post. There will be specific places that they will need to be and there will be some media involvement. (no it's not Paul Newman) And we will need to insure that the Triumph is secured and protected at all times. Attn: Tom Strange & WPTA: We will provide a place for it to be displayed at the FoT Hospitality Area. Thanks, Joe From REK46 at aol.com Thu Dec 13 09:18:49 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:18:49 EST Subject: [Fot] FoT Volunteer Needed for Watkins Glen Message-ID: now we're all properly titillated ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Dec 13 19:47:14 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:47:14 EST Subject: [Fot] 87MM Cylinder Liners-Anybody need an odd one or two liners? Message-ID: List: I just ran a small lot of Cylinder Liners. I have three liners for a short set. They are liners bored from 86MM to 87MM and honed. Ready to install. If someone needs just one or two to replace damaged or worn liner(s), contact me off list. If you want a set bored to your spec, I can tell you where to send them. NFI. We have done several sets recently for various midwest folks...slow period for this performance engine place....quick turn around. Joe A From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Thu Dec 13 23:53:57 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:53:57 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: <001c01c83e1e$19c74590$0502a8c0@desktop> FoT, I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for a little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR of about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge flywheel. I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will probably use Venolia pistons. Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting rod from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is better? Thanks Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net Fri Dec 14 06:31:27 2007 From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:31:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: <380-2200712514133127729@earthlink.net> Charly Try these http//www.pauter.com/ , http//www.jepistons.com/ Chip > [Original Message] > From: Charly Mitchel > To: Friends ; Chuck Arnold > Date: 12/14/2007 1:54:14 AM > Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild > > FoT, > I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for a > little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR of > about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge flywheel. > I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. > I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will probably use > Venolia pistons. > Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting rod > from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is > better? > Thanks > Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.1/1183 - Release Date: 12/13/2007 9:15 AM From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Fri Dec 14 06:40:06 2007 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 05:40:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Dean Tetterton Message-ID: <763689.93902.qm@web81706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dean - can you shoot me an email Thanks Dennis From cwn74 at aol.com Fri Dec 14 09:04:29 2007 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:04:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FoT Volunteer Needed for Watkins Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <010301c83e6b$0200d190$1442a8c0@semperon3400> Joe, I have been to the last 3 or 4 Zippo's at the Glen as crew for an MGTD that has participated in the downtown event on Friday for the race reenactment. As an SCCA marshal of 35+ years I also know many of the local volunteer folks that are downtown (and at the track) making it happen. I would also be able to tune them in to our needs if necessary. My MGTD friend may not be in attendance for 2008 and if so I can offer my assistance. If so, I could arrive on Wednesday or Thursday depending on needs. Would I need to stay at the location of the people in question? Let me know what is needed and I hope to help out! Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." From BillB at bnj.com Fri Dec 14 10:11:31 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:11:31 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Peyote Progress References: Message-ID: I've had a few questions about progress on Peyote, so I'm getting a little more serious about documenting the process of sticking the poor crushed bugger back together. Here's the latest. http://www.allaluminumtour.com/ From hottr6 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 14 12:32:37 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:32:37 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: Charly Mitchell asked: > I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for a > little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR of > about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge flywheel. > I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. > I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will probably use > Venolia pistons. > Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting rod > from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is > better? Stock crankshaft!!! =80 Your best investment is first cross-drilling the crank and then have it nitrided. Then I would throw money into reducing the reciprocating weight. Shane Ingate, "reliability and strength first", in NM. _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec From jaboruch at netzero.net Fri Dec 14 14:53:19 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:53:19 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: <20071214.165319.3323.0@webmail01.dca.untd.com> I have been using Pauter rods in may TR3 and they have worked very well. Priced much lower than Carillos, but made from the same steel and same forge as Carillos. Joe(B) -- "U K MOTORSPORTS" wrote: Charly Try these http//www.pauter.com/ , http//www.jepistons.com/ Chip > [Original Message] > From: Charly Mitchel > To: Friends ; Chuck Arnold > Date: 12/14/2007 1:54:14 AM > Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild > > FoT, > I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for a > little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR of > about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge flywheel. > I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. > I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will probably use > Venolia pistons. > Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting rod > from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is > better? > Thanks > Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.1/1183 - Release Date: 12/13/2007 9:15 AM Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click to shop and compare great deals on trucks. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlMsqkSpl6uP1OgDoZYd9CvJ JJh5CJFTjeDThQCGzr5RbEth/ From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Fri Dec 14 17:06:29 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:06:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild In-Reply-To: <001c01c83e1e$19c74590$0502a8c0@desktop> References: <001c01c83e1e$19c74590$0502a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <47631A85.8000500@cyberspeedway.net> Charly, The TR6 rod is fine if you follow Kas' comp prep instructions and shot peen them. We used to shift at 7600 rpm and the rods never gave a problem. Carrillo rods used to use 1/4" rod bolts and the only people I know who broke TR6 rods were Carrillo users. Carrillo did this because they didn't/wouldn't split the rods on a diagonal and there isn't any room for bigger bolts on a conventional pattern rod due to the small bore of a TR6. I had talked with Crower at one point and they thought they could use 9/32" or 5/16" bolts. I also investigated Pauter and at the time they thought they could do a diagonal split rod. The piston acceleration on a TR6 is brutal because of the long stroke short rod combination. At 7000 rpm it is about the same as a 4" x 3" small block Chevy at 10,000 rpm. First choice for pistons is Cosworth. We ran one set for 12 years, 6-8 races a year. Arias is good too but the Cosworths fit the best at temperature. Greg Lund Charly Mitchel wrote: > FoT, > I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for a > little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR of > about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge flywheel. > I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. > I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will probably use > Venolia pistons. > Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting rod > from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is > better? > Thanks > Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Fri Dec 14 17:29:13 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:29:13 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire 1500 prep Message-ID: <20071214.172914.3908.2.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Greetings all, My neighbor bought my '76 Spitfire from me. It's the one which expired with the #3 rod hammering its bearings into a flaky, blue ring. He & his brother are bringing it back to life, and I'd like to get them some details on improving 1500 bottom end reliability. They are going pretty much stock/street, I do not think they will go for 'scrap it & get a 1296'. I didn't seem to be able to access anything on the FoT website. Thanks in advance. Merry Christmas, Bill From awashatko at wi.rr.com Fri Dec 14 18:31:54 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:31:54 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell Message-ID: <321d1942dc33eae060d400e5a11ff4b7@wi.rr.com> FoT, Will be replacing the original fuel cell that my TR6 came with. It has no identification as to the manufacturer. Which manufacturers are currently being recommended from a quality and price point of view? I'm looking at a 10 gal. capacity. Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net Fri Dec 14 18:47:57 2007 From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:47:57 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell Message-ID: <380-220071261514757801@earthlink.net> Allen...try Fuel Safe or ATL...Chip > [Original Message] > From: Allen Washatko > To: Friends of Triumph > Date: 12/14/2007 8:31:56 PM > Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell > > FoT, > > Will be replacing the original fuel cell that my TR6 came with. It has > no identification as to the manufacturer. Which manufacturers are > currently being recommended from a quality and price point of view? I'm > looking at a 10 gal. capacity. > > Allen > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.2/1184 - Release Date: 12/14/2007 11:29 AM From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Dec 14 20:09:59 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:09:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild References: <001c01c83e1e$19c74590$0502a8c0@desktop> <47631A85.8000500@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <001701c83ec7$fa8d2ff0$0502a8c0@desktop> Greg, great information. I've looked in to getting Venolia pistons at about $100 a piece and I've been thinking along the lines of using the stock rods. I have the whole selection of Kas' books and plan to do the lightening as he recommends. Where do I find info on the Cosworth pistons? Are they available in the USA? Thanks, Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "greg" To: "Charly Mitchel" Cc: "FOT LIST" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild > Charly, > The TR6 rod is fine if you follow Kas' comp prep instructions and > shot peen them. We used to shift at 7600 rpm and the rods never gave a > problem. Carrillo rods used to use 1/4" rod bolts and the only people I > know who broke TR6 rods were Carrillo users. Carrillo did this because > they didn't/wouldn't split the rods on a diagonal and there isn't any room > for bigger bolts on a conventional pattern rod due to the small bore of a > TR6. I had talked with Crower at one point and they thought they could use > 9/32" or 5/16" bolts. I also investigated Pauter and at the time they > thought they could do a diagonal split rod. The piston acceleration on a > TR6 is brutal because of the long stroke short rod combination. At 7000 > rpm it is about the same as a 4" x 3" small block Chevy at 10,000 rpm. > First choice for pistons is Cosworth. We ran one set for 12 years, > 6-8 races a year. Arias is good too but the Cosworths fit the best at > temperature. > Greg Lund > Charly Mitchel wrote: >> FoT, >> I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for >> a >> little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR >> of >> about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge >> flywheel. >> I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. >> I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will >> probably use >> Venolia pistons. >> Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting >> rod >> from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is >> better? >> Thanks >> Charly Mitchel >> TR6 #44 >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Dec 14 20:39:58 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:39:58 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild References: <001c01c83e1e$19c74590$0502a8c0@desktop><47631A85.8000500@cyberspeedway.net> <001701c83ec7$fa8d2ff0$0502a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <002001c83ecc$2b200b70$0502a8c0@desktop> I have another question about rods. Has anyone taken off to much material from the stock rods? How much was it? What happened to the rod? Just think ahead for my grinding process. Thanks Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charly Mitchel" To: "greg" Cc: "FOT LIST" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild > Greg, great information. I've looked in to getting Venolia pistons at > about > $100 a piece and I've been thinking along the lines of using the stock > rods. > I have the whole selection of Kas' books and plan to do the lightening as > he > recommends. Where do I find info on the Cosworth pistons? Are they > available in the USA? > Thanks, Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "greg" > To: "Charly Mitchel" > Cc: "FOT LIST" > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 4:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild > > >> Charly, >> The TR6 rod is fine if you follow Kas' comp prep instructions and >> shot peen them. We used to shift at 7600 rpm and the rods never gave a >> problem. Carrillo rods used to use 1/4" rod bolts and the only people I >> know who broke TR6 rods were Carrillo users. Carrillo did this because >> they didn't/wouldn't split the rods on a diagonal and there isn't any >> room >> for bigger bolts on a conventional pattern rod due to the small bore of a >> TR6. I had talked with Crower at one point and they thought they could >> use >> 9/32" or 5/16" bolts. I also investigated Pauter and at the time they >> thought they could do a diagonal split rod. The piston acceleration on a >> TR6 is brutal because of the long stroke short rod combination. At 7000 >> rpm it is about the same as a 4" x 3" small block Chevy at 10,000 rpm. >> First choice for pistons is Cosworth. We ran one set for 12 years, >> 6-8 races a year. Arias is good too but the Cosworths fit the best at >> temperature. >> Greg Lund >> Charly Mitchel wrote: >>> FoT, >>> I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for >>> a >>> little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR >>> of >>> about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge >>> flywheel. >>> I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. >>> I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will >>> probably use >>> Venolia pistons. >>> Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting >>> rod >>> from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is >>> better? >>> Thanks >>> Charly Mitchel >>> TR6 #44 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Fri Dec 14 21:48:17 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:48:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Spitfire 1500 prep In-Reply-To: <20071214.172914.3908.2.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <913189.86198.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bill: Get a copy of Kas's original competition prep manual for the 1500, or his newer Triumph prep manual sold by himself and Ted S. It is all clearly detailed within. As stated before...if it isn't number three it'll be number two; if it isn't now it'll be later :O( Thanks - Ed William G Rosenbach wrote: Greetings all, My neighbor bought my '76 Spitfire from me. It's the one which expired with the #3 rod hammering its bearings into a flaky, blue ring. He & his brother are bringing it back to life, and I'd like to get them some details on improving 1500 bottom end reliability. They are going pretty much stock/street, I do not think they will go for 'scrap it & get a 1296'. I didn't seem to be able to access anything on the FoT website. Thanks in advance. Merry Christmas, Bill Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tedtsimx at bright.net Sat Dec 15 09:21:57 2007 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:21:57 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel Message-ID: <4763FF25.3030008@bright.net> Greetings FOT list community. Here is a Christmas gift idea that also benefits FOT. A friend of mine, Sam Moses, wrote a book in 1986 called "Fast Guys, Rich Guys and Idiots". A chronicle of Sam's racing season. Sam was the motor sports editor for Sports Illustrated. Later on he became associate editor of AutoWeek. "Fast Guys" was sold out in 9 months and not reprinted. Sam has reprinted his book. The book sells for $21.95. But, Sam personalized a group of books for us. These are selling for $24.95 each. Postage approximately $4.75 by priority mail and should reach you in time for Christmas. $3 from each sale will go to the FOT coffers. Buy early, buy often. The following writeup sums up the book very well. I read the book in 1986 when it first came out and liked what I saw about Sam's competitive attitude. A phone call to Sam and 2 months later, he and I won a 24 hour showroom stock race. The write-up below is from the publisher. Thanks for your time. Ted Sam Moses, a motorsports writer for Sports Illustrated, was assigned to go racing and write about what happened. Fast Guys, Rich Guys, and Idiots is a personal odyssey that peers over the cliff of change and into the pit of obsession. From small-time races to glittery grands prix, it lays bare the greed, lust, and desperation of every driver for time behind the wheel and a faster car. It explains the perfectionism behind taking a turn at the limit and describes the intoxicating thrill of stealing down the Daytona backstraight at nearly two hundred miles an hour. The core of Mose's story takes place in the heartland of stock car racing, there he finds a spot on a team in Ether, North Carolina. The team's owner is a tough Louisiana oil man, its crew chief a lanky, laconic Texan, and its number-one driver a hairy-chested leadfoot who learned fast driving on backwoods Georgia roads, delivering beauty supplies in his Mustang. Crashes echo throughout the tale that follows, five of them the author's own. Sam Moses was a staff writer for Sports Illustrated for seventeen years on the motorsports beat. He worked as deputy editor at AutoWeek and received automotive journalisms prestigious Ken Purdy Award. He is the author of At All Costs: How a Crippled Ship and Two American Merchant Mariners Reversed the Tide of World War II. A candid, often hilarious account of [Mosess] experiences on the tracks, in the garages and in the gasoline alleys of the racing worldbut especially memorable is the wild variety of characters Moses met along the way. The book might have been written twenty years ago, but racing is still populated by fast guys, rich guys, and idiots.Brock Yates, Wall Street Journal -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 From tedtsimx at bright.net Sat Dec 15 09:26:06 2007 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:26:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FOT apparel Message-ID: <4764001E.9090807@bright.net> List members, the apparel item was dropped from,the previous email. After the first of the year, several apparel choices will be sent to the list. You will be able to view windshirts, polo's, button down denim or twill shirts and jackets. Sorry for dropped apparel content. Ted -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 From vintage.racer at comcast.net Sat Dec 15 09:54:07 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:54:07 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel In-Reply-To: <4763FF25.3030008@bright.net> References: <4763FF25.3030008@bright.net> Message-ID: <000001c83f3b$1c327bb0$54977310$@racer@comcast.net> Hi Ted: I'll take one. Check will go into today's mail (Saturday). Shipping address: Gary Horstkorta 263 South Sea Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thanks and Happy Holidays. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ted Schumacher Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 8:22 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel Greetings FOT list community. Here is a Christmas gift idea that also benefits FOT. A friend of mine, Sam Moses, wrote a book in 1986 called "Fast Guys, Rich Guys and Idiots". A chronicle of Sam's racing season. Sam was the motor sports editor for Sports Illustrated. Later on he became associate editor of AutoWeek. "Fast Guys" was sold out in 9 months and not reprinted. Sam has reprinted his book. The book sells for $21.95. But, Sam personalized a group of books for us. These are selling for $24.95 each. Postage approximately $4.75 by priority mail and should reach you in time for Christmas. $3 from each sale will go to the FOT coffers. Buy early, buy often. The following writeup sums up the book very well. I read the book in 1986 when it first came out and liked what I saw about Sam's competitive attitude. A phone call to Sam and 2 months later, he and I won a 24 hour showroom stock race. The write-up below is from the publisher. Thanks for your time. Ted Sam Moses, a motorsports writer for Sports Illustrated, was assigned to go racing and write about what happened. Fast Guys, Rich Guys, and Idiots is a personal odyssey that peers over the cliff of change and into the pit of obsession. From small-time races to glittery grands prix, it lays bare the greed, lust, and desperation of every driver for time behind the wheel and a faster car. It explains the perfectionism behind taking a turn at the limit and describes the intoxicating thrill of stealing down the Daytona backstraight at nearly two hundred miles an hour. The core of Mose's story takes place in the heartland of stock car racing, there he finds a spot on a team in Ether, North Carolina. The team's owner is a tough Louisiana oil man, its crew chief a lanky, laconic Texan, and its number-one driver a hairy-chested leadfoot who learned fast driving on backwoods Georgia roads, delivering beauty supplies in his Mustang. Crashes echo throughout the tale that follows, five of them the author's own. Sam Moses was a staff writer for Sports Illustrated for seventeen years on the motorsports beat. He worked as deputy editor at AutoWeek and received automotive journalisms prestigious Ken Purdy Award. He is the author of At All Costs: How a Crippled Ship and Two American Merchant Mariners Reversed the Tide of World War II. A candid, often hilarious account of [Mosess] experiences on the tracks, in the garages and in the gasoline alleys of the racing worldbut especially memorable is the wild variety of characters Moses met along the way. The book might have been written twenty years ago, but racing is still populated by fast guys, rich guys, and idiots.Brock Yates, Wall Street Journal -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 15 09:57:59 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:57:59 EST Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel Message-ID: Ted, I am always up for a book, especially on favorite subjects. Count in for one.. Joe Alexander 645 1st Street Jesup, Iowa 50648 Thanks for thinking about the FoT Coffers. Joe > Greetings FOT list community. Here is a Christmas gift idea that also > benefits FOT. A friend of mine, Sam Moses, wrote a book in 1986 called > "Fast Guys, Rich Guys and Idiots". A chronicle of Sam's racing season. > Sam was the motor sports editor for Sports Illustrated. Later on he > became associate editor of AutoWeek. "Fast Guys" was sold out in 9 > months and not reprinted. Sam has reprinted his book. The book sells for > $21.95. But, Sam personalized a group of books for us. These are selling > for $24.95 each. Postage approximately $4.75 by priority mail and should > reach you in time for Christmas. $3 from each sale will go to the FOT > coffers. Buy early, buy often. The following writeup sums up the book > very well. I read the book in 1986 when it first came out and liked what > I saw about Sam's competitive attitude. A phone call to Sam and 2 months > later, he and I won a 24 hour showroom stock race. The write-up below is > from the publisher. Thanks for your time. Ted > > Sam Moses, a motorsports writer for Sports Illustrated, was assigned to > go racing and write about what happened. Fast Guys, Rich Guys, and > Idiots is a personal odyssey that peers over the cliff of change and > into the pit of obsession. From small-time races to glittery grands > prix, it lays bare the greed, lust, and desperation of every driver for > time behind the wheel and a faster car. It explains the perfectionism > behind taking a turn at the limit and describes the intoxicating thrill > of stealing down the Daytona backstraight at nearly two hundred miles an > hour. > > The core of Mose's story takes place in the heartland of stock car > racing, there he finds a spot on a team in Ether, North Carolina. The > team's owner is a tough Louisiana oil man, its crew chief a lanky, > laconic Texan, and its number-one driver a hairy-chested leadfoot who > learned fast driving on backwoods Georgia roads, delivering beauty > supplies in his Mustang. Crashes echo throughout the tale that follows, > five of them the author's own. > > Sam Moses was a staff writer for Sports Illustrated for seventeen years > on the motorsports beat. He worked as deputy editor at AutoWeek and > received automotive journalisms prestigious Ken Purdy Award. He is the > author of At All Costs: How a Crippled Ship and Two American Merchant > Mariners Reversed the Tide of World War II. > > A candid, often hilarious account of [Mosess] experiences on the > tracks, in the garages and in the gasoline alleys of the racing > worldbut especially memorable is the wild variety of characters Moses > met along the way. The book might have been written twenty years ago, > but racing is still populated by fast guys, rich guys, and > idiots.Brock Yates, Wall Street Journal > > > -- > Ted Schumacher > tedtsimx at bright.net > http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com > 108 S. Jefferson St. > Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 > Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) > Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) > Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 15 10:08:42 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:08:42 EST Subject: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen Message-ID: Thanks are overdue to Ted Schumacher and Marty Sukey for coordinating FoT shirt sales, this year. I received a very nice check for $300 that went into the FOT Account. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------- Again, Ted, Marty, et. al. are coordinating shirts for the Watkins Glen FoT event. Like anything else, these things dont get done without this kind of involvement. Ted & Doris will also be vending at the Glen for about the 16th time. Almost as many times as Bill Dentinger has entered this event. This is going to be a huge Event for Triumphs. There are a lot of folks with Triumphs that are planning to come...as entrants or spectators. I know that the spectator population is going to be very largely affected by our presence. This is really Triumph Country. Joe A From mark at bradakis.com Sat Dec 15 10:11:58 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:11:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel In-Reply-To: <4763FF25.3030008@bright.net> References: <4763FF25.3030008@bright.net> Message-ID: <47640ADE.70603@bradakis.com> Gee, just moments ago my wife was asking me for some further ideas on what to get me for Christmas - what timing! And thanks to those who who recently contributed to Team.Net, I do appreciate it. I manage about 80 lists in around half a dozen different domains, and this one is my favorite. mjb. From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sat Dec 15 10:10:13 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:10:13 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question Message-ID: <001201c83f3d$5bca7910$0301000a@Chowdown> Which gooey product would you reccommend for freeze plug installation? Also, do you guys drill and safety wire the 2 engine block bolts that protrude into the cam bearing holes? ~Steve From BillB at bnj.com Sat Dec 15 10:10:59 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:10:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question References: <001201c83f3d$5bca7910$0301000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: JB Weld. and Yup. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Steve Belfer Sent: Sat 12/15/2007 9:10 AM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question Which gooey product would you reccommend for freeze plug installation? Also, do you guys drill and safety wire the 2 engine block bolts that protrude into the cam bearing holes? ~Steve Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sat Dec 15 10:15:45 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:15:45 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question References: <001201c83f3d$5bca7910$0301000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <002c01c83f3e$213f06c0$0301000a@Chowdown> thanks guys. ~SB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 9:10 AM Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question > Which gooey product would you reccommend for freeze plug installation? > > Also, do you guys drill and safety wire the 2 engine block bolts that > protrude > into the cam bearing holes? > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From REK46 at aol.com Sat Dec 15 10:18:10 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:18:10 EST Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question Message-ID: I've used Loctite " RC/609"...Cylindrical retaining compound for 35yrs an never had one fail...its in a red squeeze bottle like the Loctite threadlocker....easy and works if you press it in right ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 15 10:26:41 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:26:41 EST Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel Message-ID: That reminds me...I have some money for you, from the FOT. I promised Brad & Susan I would do this and have never followed through. Procrastination. My bad. I can send check.....what is your address? Joe Alexander > Gee, just moments ago my wife was asking me for some further > ideas on what to get me for Christmas - what timing! > > And thanks to those who who recently contributed to Team.Net, > I do appreciate it. I manage about 80 lists in around half a dozen > different domains, and this one is my favorite. > > mjb. > From trmarty at hotmail.com Sat Dec 15 13:37:05 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 15:37:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Joe, I was part of last couple of orders but it is actually Scott Janzen who has stepped up to the plate for the Glen shirts. I will help out as needed but it is Scott who should get the credit for the Glen shirts. Marty Sukey > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:08:42 -0500 > To: tedtsimx at bright.net; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen > > Thanks are overdue to Ted Schumacher and Marty Sukey for coordinating FoT > shirt sales, this year. I received a very nice check for $300 that went into the > FOT Account. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > --------------------------------------- > Again, Ted, Marty, et. al. are coordinating shirts for the Watkins Glen FoT > event. Like anything else, these things dont get done without this kind of > involvement. > > Ted & Doris will also be vending at the Glen for about the 16th time. Almost > as many times as Bill Dentinger has entered this event. > > This is going to be a huge Event for Triumphs. There are a lot of folks with > Triumphs that are planning to come...as entrants or spectators. I know that > the spectator population is going to be very largely affected by our presence. > This is really Triumph Country. > > Joe A > _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ From hottr6 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 15 13:47:51 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 15:47:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: Charly, FWIW, my Carillo rods with JE pistons (and bolts, wrist pins, rings) save a total of around 270g rotating mass per pot over lightened stock components, or a massive 375g/pot over stock components. In a TR6, that is 2.25kg off the rotating mass. I was advised AGAINST using Cosworth pistons, as they have a very short skirts. While maybe fine for a woman with long rods, this is an issue in my streetable car, but not as critical for a dedicated racer. Shane Ingate, relaxing after drywall work, in NM 2.25kg or nearly 5lbs off the rotating mass.> I've looked in to getting Venolia pistons at about > $100 a piece and I've been thinking along the lines of using the stock rods. > I have the whole selection of Kas' books and plan to do the lightening as he > recommends. Where do I find info on the Cosworth pistons? _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ From WEmery7451 at aol.com Sat Dec 15 17:14:41 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 19:14:41 EST Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: In a message dated 12/15/07 12:48:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, hottr6 at hotmail.com writes: << I was advised AGAINST using Cosworth pistons, as they have a very short sk irts. While maybe fine for a woman with long rods, this is an issue in my str eetable car, but not as critical for a dedicated racer.>> Jack Wheeler developed the Cosworth popup pistons and had Webber in Virginia make them. I assume that these were the pistons that were in his winning Runoff engine. I bought four of them many years ago, and am still using them today. I believe that Weber passed away, and his business was shut down. If I ruin one of these pistons, I probably wouldn't be able to replace it. You wouldn't save any rotating mass. These pistons are heavier than the Hepalite flat top pistons. ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From WEmery7451 at aol.com Sat Dec 15 17:24:06 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 19:24:06 EST Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild (Addendum) Message-ID: These pistons were for the four banger tractor engines. ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From S.Janzen at comcast.net Sat Dec 15 22:47:09 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:47:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen References: Message-ID: <004101c83fa7$1a549be0$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Once the Glen shirts are complete and sold all that are involved can take credit. For now, thank you's are certainly due to those that put together shirts in 2007 and that resulted in funds going into this year's coffers - not me. Blame me in 2008 if the shirts are a dud! Scott Janzen ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" To: ; ; Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen > Thanks Joe, I was part of last couple of orders but it is actually Scott > Janzen who has stepped up to the plate for the Glen shirts. I will help > out as > needed but it is Scott who should get the credit for the Glen shirts. > > Marty Sukey > > > >> From: N197TR4 at cs.com >> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:08:42 -0500 >> To: tedtsimx at bright.net; fot at autox.team.net >> Subject: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen >> >> Thanks are overdue to Ted Schumacher and Marty Sukey for coordinating FoT >> shirt sales, this year. I received a very nice check for $300 that went > into the >> FOT Account. >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - >> --------------------------------------- >> Again, Ted, Marty, et. al. are coordinating shirts for the Watkins Glen >> FoT >> event. Like anything else, these things dont get done without this kind >> of >> involvement. >> >> Ted & Doris will also be vending at the Glen for about the 16th time. > Almost >> as many times as Bill Dentinger has entered this event. >> >> This is going to be a huge Event for Triumphs. There are a lot of folks >> with >> Triumphs that are planning to come...as entrants or spectators. I know >> that >> the spectator population is going to be very largely affected by our > presence. >> This is really Triumph Country. >> >> Joe A >> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox > 360 > Console. > http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sun Dec 16 08:26:51 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 07:26:51 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR3 Cam Core plug install Message-ID: <000601c83ff8$157a6040$0301000a@Chowdown> Just got a new dish-shaped cam core plug from Moss for my fresh engine rebuild. What's the step by step technique to putting one of these in? It can't be very tough but I've never been tought the technique. Here's my common-sense guess for how to do it. 1, of course, make sure the hole is clean and the surface is smooth. 2, rough up a little for the epoxy to grab 3, apply JB weld to the inside of the hole (don't get it on the cam bearings) 4. Gently tap the dish shaped plug (dish outwards) with a big socket into the hole. How far? until it settles up against the ledge? 5. hold a wooden handle as a drift on the center of the dish 6. give it a good whack to expand the plug in place 7. JB weld the edges. Whaddya think gang? From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 16 09:56:24 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:56:24 EST Subject: [Fot] Ted's Shirts at The Glen - Hampton Inn Message-ID: S.Janzen at comcast.net writes: > Once the Glen shirts are complete and sold all that are involved can take > credit. For now, thank you's are certainly due to those that put together > shirts in 2007 and that resulted in funds going into this year's coffers - > not me. Blame me in 2008 if the shirts are a dud! > Scott Janzen > FoT, Make no mistake. This is likely to the most important FoT Event we have had. The Brits at Mid-Ohio is hard to surpass, but overall I think this will be the new benchmark. A good shirt will let it live on with us. I expect the whole scene to be extremely special. It wont all be about racing, but everyone will appreciate being there. I got a call from Philadelphia; Dave S says in 2008 he expects 10 Triumphs to be be coming. These are VTR Guys. Expect a strong presence from the TRA group as well. Expect to get a lot of attention in the Paddock and Triumph Central (FoT Hospitality) Get your reservations in a the Hampton Inn, if you have not already. It looks like we may be filling this hotel up. If you need help let me know. (I am helping out the Brits that are coming, and one other far flung guy from Hawaii) Andrea Stowe is the manager and is our contact. If you are having difficulties with your reservations, ask for her, or let me know. Yes, this Hampton Inn is a bit off the track, but there is a great back road to The Glen, if you know where it is. Joe Alexander From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 16 10:13:23 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:13:23 EST Subject: [Fot] GARY FUQUA NOMINATION TO FOT Message-ID: FoT, This morning I received an email from Branson, Mo.'s Gary Fuqua. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Joe, Well, it is done. I have the TR 4!! We arrived about 4 or so and Gary fired her up. She sounded great so we shut her down and put her in my trailer.......... We are spending the night in Des Moines and will get back to Branson tomorrow afternoon around 4 or so. Cheers my friend, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO GSFuqua1 at aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- Gary Fuqua just purchased Gary Wiezorek's TR4, and will be racing with us in 2008. Wiezorek has not raced the car for five years, the last event being Mid-America Motorplex near Council Bluffs. We will miss 'GWIZ Racing', but Gary Fuqua will be a pleasant and worthy successor to Wiezorek in this pristine TR4. Therefore, I nominate Gary Fuqua to the FOT and invite him to introduce himself, when his name/address is tendered to the list. Joe Alexander From gwizracing at cfu.net Sun Dec 16 10:24:59 2007 From: gwizracing at cfu.net (Gary Wiezorek) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:24:59 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Second to Nomination Message-ID: <47655F6B.9050206@cfu.net> I second the nomination of Gary Fuqua to the FOT. It was very hard to part with TR4 #96 but Gary will take good care of it and drive it proudly. Gary Wiezorek From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Wed Dec 12 15:06:54 2007 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Terry & Cindy) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:06:54 +1000 Subject: [Fot] heat treatment advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071212220707.MQQO11935.oaamta06sl.mx.bigpond.com@Terry> I recall there was a lengthy posting some time ago about various heat treatments, especially as applied to crankshafts. Does anyone have a copy??> I'm particularly chasing real-world information on the tuftriding process Thanks, Terry From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Sun Dec 16 13:06:37 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 13:06:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Cosworth pistons Message-ID: <4765854D.2080206@cyberspeedway.net> All, After Shane's comment I thought I would measure the piston length as I had never noticed the Cosworths as being overly short. The stock piston is 2.440" and the Cosworth is 2.230". The Cosworth is a full skirt design which is not much used today in racing engines. A modern Cup motor or Pro Stock motor use pistons which have skirts the size of a postage stamp. There is just enough material under the head to hold the rings and a short pin to make them extremely light. These modern pistons are CNC'd under the top to match whatever popup is on the top side further contributing to lightness. The Cosworths are an older design and I suspect a modern Ross or the like could be a little lighter. The new set I have left is 1977 vintage left over from PLN's team. Cosworth has probably updated by now but they are awfully expensive. They were $1,800 a set in 1992 the last time I checked which leaves room for about 3 sets from most other manufacturers. Greg Lund From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 16 22:23:47 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:23:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [DCTRA] I've heard of unrealistic prices on eBay, but this is ridiculous... Message-ID: <20071217052806.FFJG24689.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Guffaw! >Unless you think $29,500 is a decent price for a TR7 coupe... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1979-TRIUMPH-TR-7-NICEST-RESTORED-TR-7-IN-THE-WORLD_W0QQitemZ260188936438QQihZ016QQcategoryZ6469QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > >I would also expect "the nicest restored TR7 in the world" to not >have a rusted out exhaust system... plus the correct hood with the >double bump would be nice. > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Zane Horton From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Dec 17 08:08:40 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:08:40 EST Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... Message-ID: Amici... Geezz...I thought only us Yankees were known for boorish behavior. Our cousins set some records in VEGAS the weekend before last. Rumor has it 20-25,000 BRITS made the considerable trip from the UK for the Mayweather-Hatton boxing match. They brought their own bands with them and everything. The fight was held at the MGM GRAND, who went through 4,000 cases of beer on Saturday night (normally the BIGGEST night sees but 500 cases consumed). Several local bars were 'closed' because of unruly behavior by the BRITS (a VEGAS first). Later, newspaper headlines suggested such boorish behavior will not be missed in this 'wide-open' city. I watched a replay of the fight on HBO over the weekend. It was a good fight. Hatton is one tough kid, but Mayweather is a more skilled boxer, and in fact knocked Hatton out in the 10th. Bill (Damdinger) http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From Labs0808 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 08:19:58 2007 From: Labs0808 at aol.com (Labs0808 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:19:58 EST Subject: [Fot] Re Ambro 001 Message-ID: To any and all who would or could care I now decided to sell my car. I have owned the Ambro for 15 years the longest hold for me of any car. The has been exception thru time dicounting that it is a TR3 in wolves clothing. Something else has caught my eye so it is time, most of you know the car but if you have any question Regarding please drop me a note or call 612 759 6355. Ahh yes the price from what I have been hearing the small motor specials have been selling in 50 60 range a bargin for the history and style of this car. Hey this can be driving in any event anywhere in the world it is 001 no question asked. Comes with spares, log books, and drop clothes for the oil leakes. Anybody that wishes to jump in on the car please do I would like to see it stay in the US but heck the way the dollar is today this this would be a steal of shore. Thanks Doug Karon 612 759 6355 **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Mon Dec 17 08:42:41 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:42:41 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BC16942@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> We need to do something about the exchange rate. First our parts go up in price and now this. When will it end? Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 9:09 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... Amici... Geezz...I thought only us Yankees were known for boorish behavior. Our cousins set some records in VEGAS the weekend before last. Rumor has it 20-25,000 BRITS made the considerable trip from the UK for the Mayweather-Hatton boxing match. They brought their own bands with them and everything. The fight was held at the MGM GRAND, who went through 4,000 cases of beer on Saturday night (normally the BIGGEST night sees but 500 cases consumed). Several local bars were 'closed' because of unruly behavior by the BRITS (a VEGAS first). Later, newspaper headlines suggested such boorish behavior will not be missed in this 'wide-open' city. I watched a replay of the fight on HBO over the weekend. It was a good fight. Hatton is one tough kid, but Mayweather is a more skilled boxer, and in fact knocked Hatton out in the 10th. Bill (Damdinger) http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 17 08:49:14 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:49:14 EST Subject: [Fot] Re Ambro 001 Message-ID: Doug, Best wishes on your sale of the AMBRO...truly a very significant Triumph, in my mind. Regardless, I hope it finds it's way to The Glen, as it appears the Peyote will be there, and also the last AMBRO built by Bill Ames. Perhaps one other Ambro....... > To any and all who would or could care I now decided to sell my car. > I have owned the Ambro for 15 years the longest hold for me of any car. > The has been exception thru time dicounting that it is a TR3 in wolves > clothing. > Something else has caught my eye so it is time, most of you know the car > but if you have any question > Regarding please drop me a note or call 612 759 6355. > Ahh yes the price from what I have been hearing the small motor specials > have been selling in 50 60 range > a bargin for the history and style of this car. > Hey this can be driving in any event anywhere in the world it is 001 no > question asked. > Comes with spares, log books, and drop clothes for the oil leakes. > > Anybody that wishes to jump in on the car please do I would like to see > it > stay in the US but heck the way the dollar is today this this would be a > steal of shore. > Thanks > Doug Karon > 612 759 6355 > From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 17 11:06:05 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:06:05 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [DCTRA] I've heard of unrealistic prices on eBay, but this is ridiculous... References: <20071217052806.FFJG24689.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: It would be impossible to restore one to even very good condition for much less, though that's usually the seller's problem, not the buyer's. eBay is not always rational, you can sell something useful and valuable there and not get much, or something happens to hit the right folks who really want that thing and it goes for silly money. For example, I recently sold three motorcycle models on eBay. I bought them about ten years ago, and they were expensive l then ($150 each), because they were cast kits that required a lot of time and expertise to build. For example, the cylinders were built by stacking fin disks. The wheels looked nearly impossible to build to me. I never touched them other than looking at the minimal directions and the primitive parts. If I put them in a garage sale I'd be lucky to find a buyer for ten bucks. On eBay they fetched about $500 each. People who knew what they were bid against each other. The guy that got two of them was ecstatic about the two he got and devastated that he got outbid at the last second for the third. He said he would have paid whatever it took. He sent me wooden boxes with foam pads to ship the models in. It would have been completely impossible without a lot of advertising to reach that guy. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of David W. Riddle Sent: Sun 12/16/2007 9:23 PM To: fot at autox.team.net; dan at thecarringtons.net Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [DCTRA] I've heard of unrealistic prices on eBay, but this is ridiculous... Guffaw! >Unless you think $29,500 is a decent price for a TR7 coupe... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1979-TRIUMPH-TR-7-NICEST-RESTORED-TR-7-IN-THE -WORLD_W0QQitemZ260188936438QQihZ016QQcategoryZ6469QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem > >I would also expect "the nicest restored TR7 in the world" to not >have a rusted out exhaust system... plus the correct hood with the >double bump would be nice. > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Zane Horton Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 17 11:07:13 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:07:13 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... References: Message-ID: Gee, who'd have ever thought that refined folks like boxing fans might misbehave once they got to Vegas. The city that advertises "what happens in Vegas..." -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: Mon 12/17/2007 7:08 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... Amici... Geezz...I thought only us Yankees were known for boorish behavior. Our cousins set some records in VEGAS the weekend before last. Rumor has it 20-25,000 BRITS made the considerable trip from the UK for the Mayweather-Hatton boxing match. They brought their own bands with them and everything. The fight was held at the MGM GRAND, who went through 4,000 cases of beer on Saturday night (normally the BIGGEST night sees but 500 cases consumed). Several local bars were 'closed' because of unruly behavior by the BRITS (a VEGAS first). Later, newspaper headlines suggested such boorish behavior will not be missed in this 'wide-open' city. I watched a replay of the fight on HBO over the weekend. It was a good fight. Hatton is one tough kid, but Mayweather is a more skilled boxer, and in fact knocked Hatton out in the 10th. Bill (Damdinger) http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 11:39:45 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:39:45 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Dec 17 11:55:01 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:55:01 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed References: Message-ID: <003001c840de$54994f70$1b02a8c0@workstation3> I would suggest getting a Triumph first of all, hopefully one that has already been race prepped. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:39 AM Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed > I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. > i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or > recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. > > Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Mon Dec 17 11:59:46 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:59:46 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed References: Message-ID: <003b01c840de$fde74a50$0200a8c0@Desktop> I would go rent a racer to see if you like first............if you do 1 Triumph 2 Suite, etc. Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 1:39 PM Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed >I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. > i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or > recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. > > Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Dec 17 12:06:41 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:06:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed In-Reply-To: <003b01c840de$fde74a50$0200a8c0@Desktop> References: <003b01c840de$fde74a50$0200a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Dec 2007, Craig wrote: > I would go rent a racer to see if you like first............if you do > 1 Triumph > 2 Suite, etc. > Craig We do know that Gary _HAS_ a TR4 now... right? So he's got that step out of the way. Or is the server not serving up the smiley faces on the replies. In either case, welcome Gary! rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 17 12:21:30 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:21:30 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed References: Message-ID: I don't know what's available around Branson, it might be worthwhile for you to take a trip to VIR, they have a well equipped race shop there. Of course you want to call first and make sure they'll be open. I really like the Vintage look race suits from Stand 21--they have the Dunlop blue ones that look great with our period cars. I don't have one yet, but that's what I'll buy for my next race suit. If you race in hot weather you might want to consider one of the new (but expensive) ventilated suits, or go with a standard three layers suit and spring for a cool suit. Either the type that pump cold water through a t shirt or the new ones with exothermic crystals that you stick in a freezer. For gloves, you want snug, but not as tight as classic driving gloves, with long forearms to keep your skin covered even if your suit arms get pulled up a bit by the belt. Shoes--I don't like the new "sneaker" style driving shoes, I like the boot type with soles as thin as ballet shoes. Simpsons are fine. You need a fireproof balaclava under your helmet, socks, and arm restraints that connect to your seat belt. The arm restraints can be built into your suit or you can get the loop type that slides on your arms. Make sure you helmet is current--that you have acceptable snell approval. Motorcycle helmets are not acceptable. You also need to be a little concerned about wind lift in your open car (I know you have a TR4--congrats) so you can either get a stick on whickerbill for the helmet, or buy a helmet that is aerodynamically suitable. Shoei's have a narrow wind entry and not much lift, though I still use a bill on mine. For jugs, the most durable are the heavy square poly jugs. Get a filler hose that will fit your tank. You probably want at least two, maybe three. You also need to carry water for the car. You also need all the usual spares--oil, brake fluid, battery charger, spare disk pads, etc. Most of this you'll figure out as you go. If your first race is at a big event there will be vendors for race stuff at the event. You need to take a couple of classes. Perhaps your local organizing body has some--these are usually the cheapest and sometimes the best way to get track time and experience. Take all you can manage before you race. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sent: Mon 12/17/2007 10:39 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Mon Dec 17 13:22:57 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:22:57 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BC17032@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Gary, Congratulations on the TR4. I hope you can make it down to CVAR events. We hold one each spring and fall at Hallett and you a a lot closer to theat track than I am. As a matter of fact you are a bit closer to the new track at Eagles Canyon then I am to Hallett. We have a school and race weekend in February at TWS in College Station. Marquest says that will be a little over 600 miles but where else in the middle of the country can you race in February? As for your questions I buy most of my stuff online from places like Racer Wholesale, Speedway Motors and Capital Motorsports. You can even find a lot of it with Jegs and Summit Racing. Look up Pegusus, Aircraft Spruce and Supply, McMaster-Carr and Truechoice for the hard to find stuff. You can get pretty good deals if you figure out what you need and are willing to hunt it down. Hunting the stuff down becomes part of the fun of it. Eventually you become an expert on the best place to buy anything you need. If you want the top end stuff I think it is pricey where ever you buy it, but the generic stuff can be bought at commodity prices. You may want to get the required safety gear for the first race and gradually add stuff like fuel jugs as you go. A lot of tracks are moving to self service fuel pumps so that is getting easier. Hope to see you on track soon. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:40 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitfiresuz at 141.com Mon Dec 17 13:33:42 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:33:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: <380-2200712117203342503@M2W035.mail2web.com> Hi Gary, and welcome to the vintage racing world! To follow the great suggestions from Bill and Bob, I would like to add a few other essentials: A good tire pressure gauge Proper load-rated straps/tire bonnets for towing A good torque wrench for wheel tightening (and other work) A portable compressor and/or air tank for adjusting tire pressures A way to tell how much gas is in your fuel cell (we use a wooden yardstick) A trouble light (there are some good fluorescent rechargeables now) Good luck, and I hope we will get to see you on the track next year! Susan :) #42 FP Spitfire "Tristan" Original Message: ----------------- From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:39:45 EST To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft. Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Dec 17 14:49:59 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:49:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed References: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BC17032@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Message-ID: <005401c840f6$c5966740$1b02a8c0@workstation3> Robert, now knowing you have the Triumph racecar, I would suggest talking to other racers in your area and finding out what they are doing for equipment. I have never bought any race items such as safety equipment over the internet. I always try to do business with a local supplier. I buy from a local company called Armadillo Racing and I have never checked his prices. The reason is he shows up to at least 50% of the local races with his trailer and gear. Last race of this season my gloves failed tech inspection and I was able to buy a pair from him at the race track. If we don't support these guys that support us at the track because we're trying to save a few bucks, they will go away. I've taken most of my racing equipment from my garage to use at the race track and didn't see the need to run out and buy all new race stuff as jacks, etc. I would take the advice of one of the others and see if you like before you jump into it with both feet. A friend of mine thought he'd like vintage racing, (he's a pilot as was his dad) and he found he was not very fond of it and felt he was in the way of everyone, sold his car and hasn't been back since. He bought a car, trailer, truck, camper, jacks, gas cans, tools, racing suit, gloves helmet, shoes and all the rest of it. I started out autocrossing with the Jaguar club and loved it but wanted more. I found this was probably the easiest(and cheapest) way to go racing, if you want to call it racing. I took several racing classes before every getting into a vintage race car. This also was very helpful in getting me interested. What is Classic Sports Cars? Good luck on getting started Charly Mitchel > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of GSFuqua1 at aol.com > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:40 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed > > I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. > > i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or > recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. > > Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From stutzmans at comcast.net Mon Dec 17 19:04:42 2007 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:04:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... References: Message-ID: <002301c8411a$5b2a8ed0$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> sounds like the Brits had a good time in Vegas Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:08 AM Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... > Amici... > > Geezz...I thought only us Yankees were known for boorish behavior. > > Our cousins set some records in VEGAS the weekend before last. Rumor has > it > 20-25,000 BRITS made the considerable trip from the UK for the > Mayweather-Hatton boxing match. They brought their own bands with them > and everything. The > fight was held at the MGM GRAND, who went through 4,000 cases of beer on > Saturday night (normally the BIGGEST night sees but 500 cases consumed). > Several > local bars were 'closed' because of unruly behavior by the BRITS (a VEGAS > first). Later, newspaper headlines suggested such boorish behavior will > not be > missed in this 'wide-open' city. > > I watched a replay of the fight on HBO over the weekend. It was a good > fight. Hatton is one tough kid, but Mayweather is a more skilled boxer, > and in > fact knocked Hatton out in the 10th. > > Bill (Damdinger) > > > > > > http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm > > > ************************************** > > See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Dec 17 19:33:36 2007 From: Lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:33:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15E96AC4-F391-42B5-8D1A-F6102BD6F485@earthlink.net> Gary, Don't forget the Visa, Mastercard, travelers checks, the occasional bank letter of credit and CASH!!! [lots and lots of that]. With those 5 items, the rest will work it's way out and you will have smooth sailing. Welcome, best wishes and have fun! Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Dec 17, 2007, at 11:39 AM, GSFuqua1 at aol.com wrote: > I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing > Scene. > i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or > recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. > > Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From SMITH1127 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 19:37:47 2007 From: SMITH1127 at aol.com (SMITH1127 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:37:47 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! Message-ID: Aloha, Charly. Thanks for all of the great advice. Our track here on the Big Island is quite small, and the SCCA events are not exactly what I would call wheel to wheel racing, but rather driver skills exercises. We simply do not have a decent track in Hawaii, so we make do with what we've got. Maybe some day..... I've also got a small collection of British sports cars--this has been a passion of mine for 40 years. These are all drivers, and I do drive them all. I have also had some of them on the track, but bought Bob Coan's Spitfire as a car that I could dedicate to the track. It may be more car than our little track calls for (I doubt that I will ever use the overdrive), but it should be lots of fun and the guys and gals that do race here will like to see another real racecar at our events. Most folks show up in their everyday drivers, although we do have a Lotus 7 and some other unusual vehicles for being in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Thanks again for your note. I've attached a few pictures from our car barn. Much aloha. Robert **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010490.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010511.JPG] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010396.JPG] From brad.kahler at 141.com Mon Dec 17 20:48:35 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:48:35 -0600 Subject: [Fot] For the racer who has every tool made Message-ID: <47674313.1000705@141.com> This just got posted to the Shop-Talk list and I thought it might be appropriate for the FOT members who need to have every tool made. http://sheldonbrown.com/tork-grip.html Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Dec 17 21:00:36 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:00:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed References: <15E96AC4-F391-42B5-8D1A-F6102BD6F485@earthlink.net> Message-ID: So Gary, how much is in your wallet??? ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer To: GSFuqua1 at aol.com ; FOT Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Gary, Don't forget the Visa, Mastercard, travelers checks, the occasional bank letter of credit and CASH!!! [lots and lots of that]. With those 5 items, the rest will work it's way out and you will have smooth sailing. Welcome, best wishes and have fun! Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Dec 17, 2007, at 11:39 AM, GSFuqua1 at aol.com wrote: > I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing > Scene. > i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or > recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. > > Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 21:02:39 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:02:39 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: Thank you Charly. That has already been done. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 21:08:53 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:08:53 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: Thank you Bob. I may be starting out in Vintage Racing but I'm not exactly stupid. Just looking for some recommendations. I actually have TWO fully prepared Vintage Racers. Both are excellent cars and I expect to have some fun, NOT try to be the next Sterling Moss. Ha ha Cheers, Gary **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 21:27:53 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:27:53 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: Thanks. All very useful and appreciated. I perhaps should have given a little more information in my request. For the past 5+ years (After retirement) I have owned and operated Classic Sports Cars in Branson, Missouri. I have a full blown operation with virtually all tools, etc. I have restored several Triumphs (TR 3's, TR 4's, TR 250, TR 6's, TR 7's & 8's as well as a couple of mid year Corvettes, a couple of Porsche's, MG's and several Austin-Healeys. I have won Gold Level Concours at National Austin-Healey events as well as 395 of 400 on several of the Triumphs including Best of Show, etc., etc. I have run quite a few Auto Crosses and while fun they are just not exactly what I really enjoy. I have also attended several vintage races and have taken a fair amount of class room training for Vintage Racing and have signed up for the CVAR School in February at TWS. Hope this helps explain my interest and perhaps the lack of initial information in my request. Cheers, Gary **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 21:36:02 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:36:02 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: Good one!! Probably not enough but sufficient at the moment. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Mon Dec 17 23:06:22 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:06:22 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c8413c$1d827030$b1191718@computer> Hi Robert, I live in Sacramento, California and recently bought a '74 TR6 that had only a few years before come from Oahu. I bought it from John Shrum's son. Apparently John was retired Navy and had a British car shop on Oahu and did some SCCA Club Racing in the 80s and 90s. I am autocrossing this TR6 now and plan to do some road racing even though vintage racing in Northern California is not too friendly to TR6s. Jim Two '74 TR6s -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of SMITH1127 at aol.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 6:38 PM To: charly at mitchelplumbing.com; RKramer at rdoequipment.com; GSFuqua1 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! Aloha, Charly. Thanks for all of the great advice. Our track here on the Big Island is quite small, and the SCCA events are not exactly what I would call wheel to wheel racing, but rather driver skills exercises. We simply do not have a decent track in Hawaii, so we make do with what we've got. Maybe some day..... I've also got a small collection of British sports cars--this has been a passion of mine for 40 years. These are all drivers, and I do drive them all. I have also had some of them on the track, but bought Bob Coan's Spitfire as a car that I could dedicate to the track. It may be more car than our little track calls for (I doubt that I will ever use the overdrive), but it should be lots of fun and the guys and gals that do race here will like to see another real racecar at our events. Most folks show up in their everyday drivers, although we do have a Lotus 7 and some other unusual vehicles for being in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Thanks again for your note. I've attached a few pictures from our car barn. Much aloha. Robert **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010490.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010511.JPG] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010396.JPG] Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Tue Dec 18 08:38:21 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 07:38:21 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! References: <000001c8413c$1d827030$b1191718@computer> Message-ID: Hi Jim...SCCA is hosting 2 vintage events this year..one at Laguna Seca april 12-13, and one at Infineon on Sept 20 & 21..I'm quite sure your TR6 will be welcome, as there are 240Zs , datsun 510s, and other cars of your car's era . Take your car through the SCCA driver's school Feb 29- March 2... or...Go to the CSRG Driver's clinic in February(generally speaking your car does not have to be CSRG accepted to take the clinic, and you will get your CSRG license(medical card) Either of these venues will get you a vintage racing license for SCCA contact Bill godwin at 925 200 7722 or ponyperf at comcast.net for CSRG go to www.csrgracing.org or call Dan Radowicz at 925 736 2823 ...also..HSR west will probably accept your car. HSR West has 1 race a year at Thunderhill 310 530 9731 Ed Swart..So there you have 3 Northern California Races that your car will probably qualify for in 2008. Have fun, Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: ; ; ; ; Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! > Hi Robert, > > I live in Sacramento, California and recently bought a '74 TR6 that had > only a few years before come from Oahu. I bought it from John Shrum's > son. Apparently John was retired Navy and had a British car shop on > Oahu and did some SCCA Club Racing in the 80s and 90s. I am > autocrossing this TR6 now and plan to do some road racing even though > vintage racing in Northern California is not too friendly to TR6s. > > Jim > Two '74 TR6s > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > SMITH1127 at aol.com > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 6:38 PM > To: charly at mitchelplumbing.com; RKramer at rdoequipment.com; > GSFuqua1 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! > > Aloha, Charly. Thanks for all of the great advice. Our track here on the > Big > Island is quite small, and the SCCA events are not exactly what I would > call > wheel to wheel racing, but rather driver skills exercises. We simply do > not > have a decent track in Hawaii, so we make do with what we've got. Maybe > some > day..... > > I've also got a small collection of British sports cars--this has been a > > passion of mine for 40 years. These are all drivers, and I do drive them > all. I > have also had some of them on the track, but bought Bob Coan's Spitfire > as a > car that I could dedicate to the track. It may be more car than our > little > track calls for (I doubt that I will ever use the overdrive), but it > should be > lots of fun and the guys and gals that do race here will like to see > another > real racecar at our events. Most folks show up in their everyday > drivers, > although we do have a Lotus 7 and some other unusual vehicles for being > in the > middle of the Pacific Ocean. > > Thanks again for your note. I've attached a few pictures from our car > barn. > Much aloha. Robert > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name > of P1010490.jpg] > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name > of P1010511.JPG] > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name > of P1010396.JPG] > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 18 08:49:16 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:49:16 EST Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn-Painted Post Message-ID: FoT, I got a call from FoT Wensley this morning. he managed to book the LAST ROOM at the Hampton Inn. (of course there will always be cancellations) Andrea, the manager of the Hampton Inn, is going to get back to me on Wed or Thur. They are opening a new property nearby. I will be talking to her about additional rooms as it appears they will be needed. JOE ALEXANDER From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 18 08:52:48 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:52:48 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: Gary, Introducing yourself was a good idea. See how helpful this dynamic group is. I know you have plans earlier in the year for racing in Texas, but I hope that you can plan for Watkins Glen. If you do, there are a couple of things we need to discuss, regarding your application for entry. Joe A From mark at bradakis.com Tue Dec 18 09:50:40 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:50:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn-Painted Post In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4767FA60.4000606@bradakis.com> Snooze you lose. I was planning on reserving a room there, and was going to call in a couple of days after I decide for sure whether or not I'll be attending. I should just call and at least get on a waiting list or something. mjb. From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 18 10:17:54 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:17:54 EST Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn-Painted Post Message-ID: Mark, I will be talking to Andrea on Wednesday or Thursday about alternatives. They are opening a new property a short distance away. I might be able to lock into another deal, now that we have filled up one hotel. :-) Joe Alexander > Snooze you lose. I was planning on reserving a room there, > and was going to call in a couple of days after I decide for > sure whether or not I'll be attending. I should just call > and at least get on a waiting list or something. > > mjb. > From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 18 10:28:08 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:28:08 EST Subject: [Fot] Paddock Area and Entry Eligibility-Watkins Glen Message-ID: FoT Just talked to my favorite contact at SVRA: SVRA is going to allocate PREMIUM Paddock Space that combines hard surface and grass. We will have a hospitality area (tent) for gathering and protection and display of a couple of important Triumphs. SVRA says there is room for all manner of rigs. More on this later. (Heads up to Tom Strange and the WPTA) I will have more detailed info for you guys. I also talked about car eligibility and it remains on a case by case basis. If you think you are marginal in entry, please contact me and I will see what I can do. (Mike?) Regards, Joe Alexander From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 18 13:49:37 2007 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:49:37 -0500 Subject: [Fot] For the racer who has every tool made In-Reply-To: <47674313.1000705@141.com> References: <47674313.1000705@141.com> Message-ID: > This just got posted to the Shop-Talk list and I thought it might be > appropriate for the FOT members who need to have every tool made.> > http://sheldonbrown.com/tork-grip.html> > Brad> 1957 TR3 vintage racer This guy is a friend of my brother's from when they were both photographers in Cambridge back in The Olden Days. Small world. John H. From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 18 18:14:24 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:14:24 EST Subject: [Fot] Stepped Triple Manifold for Webers on a GT6 Message-ID: Guys, John McCue is looking for subject parts....can anyone help? His eMail address is: slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net Thanks, Joe A > Looking for the stepped triple manifold for Webers on a GT6. I have the > straight one for TR6. Have any ideas who might have one? Thanks, John > Return-Path: Received: from rly-dc06.mx.aol.com (rly-dc06.mail.aol.com [172.19.136.35]) by air-dc10.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDC101-b254768529c59; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:22 -0500 Received: from omta01.suddenlink.net (omta01-pub.suddenlink.net [208.180.40.73]) by rly-dc06.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDC061-b254768529c59; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:08 -0500 Received: from johnkbv4bfa8sa ([75.108.225.18]) by omta01.suddenlink.net (InterMail vM.7.05.02.03 201-2174-114-109-20070208) with ESMTP id <20071218230704.WFIH19462.omta01.suddenlink.net at johnkbv4bfa8sa> for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:07:04 -0600 Message-ID: <000c01c841ca$b77a3d60$12e16c4b at johnkbv4bfa8sa> From: "John McCue" To: References: Subject: Re: Triumph Aluminum Plates Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-AOL-IP: 208.180.40.73 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : n X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Looking for the stepped triple manifold for Webers on a GT6. I have the straight one for TR6. Have any ideas who might have one? Thanks, John ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 9:45 PM Subject: Re: Triumph Aluminum Plates Have all of Kastners stuff and have talked to Steve Smith from the west coast a couple of times. Do you have Kas' latest three publications (books)? I sell them for him and have all three in stock. Regards, Joe From awashatko at wi.rr.com Tue Dec 18 19:17:22 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:17:22 -0600 Subject: [Fot] manifold gasket Message-ID: Jack, Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on page A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that they "are made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material that is thicker than the original composite gaskets." Could this be the same material you are using for the TR4 gaskets? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From Gt6steve at aol.com Tue Dec 18 19:41:54 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:41:54 EST Subject: [Fot] manifold gasket Message-ID: In a message dated 12/18/2007 6:17:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: Jack, Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on page A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that they "are made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material that is thicker than the original composite gaskets." Could this be the same material you are using for the TR4 gaskets? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 Allen, I don't have that catalog. Can you quote a part number and price? Lordy knows I'm always looking for a good (Read reusable) manifold gasket. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From S.Janzen at comcast.net Tue Dec 18 19:45:03 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:45:03 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Stepped Triple Manifold for Webers on a GT6 References: Message-ID: <000b01c841e9$28375740$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> I just picked up a GT6 that was hillclimbed and autocrossed. It came with spares including a head with the TriumphTune stepped manifolds bolted on, same as I have installed on my car. They don't appear to have ever been used but have been sitting on the floor of an unheated garage for about 20 years. They could use a good cleaning/beadblasting but are otherwise fine. Linkage is incomplete but Pierce Manifolds sells everything you need. Make me an offer! Scott Janzen, Philadelphia area ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 8:14 PM Subject: [Fot] Stepped Triple Manifold for Webers on a GT6 > Guys, > > John McCue is looking for subject parts....can anyone help? > His eMail address is: slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net > > Thanks, > > Joe A > > >> Looking for the stepped triple manifold for Webers on a GT6. I have the >> straight one for TR6. Have any ideas who might have one? Thanks, John >> > > > Return-Path: > Received: from rly-dc06.mx.aol.com (rly-dc06.mail.aol.com > [172.19.136.35]) by air-dc10.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id > MAILINDC101-b254768529c59; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:22 -0500 > Received: from omta01.suddenlink.net (omta01-pub.suddenlink.net > [208.180.40.73]) by rly-dc06.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id > MAILRELAYINDC061-b254768529c59; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:08 -0500 > Received: from johnkbv4bfa8sa ([75.108.225.18]) by omta01.suddenlink.net > (InterMail vM.7.05.02.03 201-2174-114-109-20070208) with ESMTP id > <20071218230704.WFIH19462.omta01.suddenlink.net at johnkbv4bfa8sa> for > ; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:07:04 -0600 > Message-ID: <000c01c841ca$b77a3d60$12e16c4b at johnkbv4bfa8sa> > From: "John McCue" > To: > References: > Subject: Re: Triumph Aluminum Plates > Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:09 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 > X-AOL-IP: 208.180.40.73 > X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n > X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : n > X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d > X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain > > Looking for the stepped triple manifold for Webers on a GT6. I have the > straight one for TR6. Have any ideas who might have one? Thanks, John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > To: slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 9:45 PM > Subject: Re: Triumph Aluminum Plates > > > > > > > Have all of Kastners stuff and have talked to Steve Smith from the west > coast a couple of times. > > > Do you have Kas' latest three publications (books)? > > I sell them for him and have all three in stock. > > Regards, > > Joe > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Tue Dec 18 20:00:29 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:00:29 -0600 Subject: [Fot] manifold gasket In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74fc942294cd3574444e6f843e89080b@wi.rr.com> Up to CC75000 - 695-050 from CC75001 - 695-060 Allen On Dec 18, 2007, at 8:41 PM, Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 12/18/2007 6:17:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: >> Jack, >> >> Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on page >> A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that they "are >> made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material that is >> thicker >> than the original composite gaskets." Could this be the same material >> you are using for the TR4 gaskets? >> >> Allen >> >> A l l e n W a s h a t k o >> 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > Allen, I don't have that catalog. Can you quote a part number and > price? Lordy knows I'm always looking for a good (Read reusable) > manifold gasket. > > > > See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Dec 18 20:05:35 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:05:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] manifold gasket In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <988037.97473.qm@web81209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Guys:If these are the P/N's 695-050 ($17.95) & 695-060 ($18.95) I've used this part for awhile now. They are about twice as thick as a stock gasket, and are made of a fiberous material instead of the composite stock gaskets. They have sealed every header I've ever put on a customers car, but, I would not consider them reusable. But then again, I don't have a lot of customers asking my to pull headers as often as we might on a race car. Thanks - Ed Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/18/2007 6:17:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: Jack, Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on page A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that they "are made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material that is thicker than the original composite gaskets." Could this be the same material you are using for the TR4 gaskets? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 Allen, I don't have that catalog. Can you quote a part number and price? Lordy knows I'm always looking for a good (Read reusable) manifold gasket. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Dec 18 20:17:31 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:17:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] manifold gasket In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <78170.67523.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Good idea! I can see these splitting after being compressed for a period. Of course, cleaning the manifold of any sharp edges would cut down on the header cutting the material. I'm not saying the gaskets aren't good...I use them all the time and pay the extra $$$ so I'll never have to worry about manifold leaks. For that they are great! - Ed Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: I bought some very high dollar gaskets from Remco or somesuch that were very thick and forgiving. sadly they split when disassembled so I started wrapping them in foil before install to provide a sacrificial layer. I'm hoping these gaskets are similar: Guys:If these are the P/N's 695-050 ($17.95) & 695-060 ($18.95) I've used this part for awhile now. They are about twice as thick as a stock gasket, and are made of a fiberous material instead of the composite stock gaskets. They have sealed every header I've ever put on a customers car, but, I would not consider them reusable. But then again, I don't have a lot of customers asking my to pull headers as often as we might on a race car. Thanks - Ed Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/18/2007 6:17:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: Jack, Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on page A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that they "are made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material that is thicker than the original composite gaskets." Could this be the same material you are using for the TR4 gaskets? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 Allen, I don't have that catalog. Can you quote a part number and price? Lordy knows I'm always looking for a good (Read reusable) manifold gasket. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Dec 19 04:47:27 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 05:47:27 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Re: manifold gasket Message-ID: <200712191147.lBJBlZbr304579@ns3.geneseo.net> >Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 05:45:34 -0600 >To: Allen Washatko >From: "Jack W. Drews" >Subject: Re: manifold gasket > >Could be, but I doubt it. My gaskets aren't fibrous -- they are >compacted graphite -- but if theirs is thicker than stock, it's got >to be better for this application. > >At 08:17 PM 12/18/2007, you wrote: >>Jack, >> >>Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on >>page A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that >>they "are made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material >>that is thicker than the original composite gaskets." Could this be >>the same material you are using for the TR4 gaskets? >> >>Allen >> >>A l l e n W a s h a t k o >>1971 TR6 - Number 6 From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Dec 19 07:16:17 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:16:17 EST Subject: [Fot] paging Joe Curry and Mike Munson.... thanks! (no text) Message-ID: From triosan at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 11:27:47 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:27:47 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question Message-ID: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> I am replacing a ratty top on a 74.5 TR6. Want to know which, if any, of the seals, velcro etc. shown in the Moss catalog I need to buy [total comes to 140 or so for everything]. Is the front seal that mates with the windshield reusable, or does it get destroyed when removed? Am having a professional shop do the install, so want to take all the needed parts to them. Thanks, -- Chuck Arnold From don at carterdesignassociates.com Wed Dec 19 16:35:28 2007 From: don at carterdesignassociates.com (Don Carter) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:35:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003d01c84297$d66cab40$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> My advice is to replace the rubber seal that mates with the windshield for sure. The side seals and the top side channels that hold these rubbers at the top of the glass when it is rolled up, are also a good idea to replace. All this stuff, at least in Texas gets brittle and makes little or no seal after 25 or 30 years. What is the life span of these materials? For that matter what is the life span of a TR6 ? Your trim guy will find it much easier slipping a new seal in the top channel, translating to less time for him, which translates to a lower cost, or should. Most of these FOT racing guys don't need no stinking trim, unless they have other TR's they drive on the streets. This stuff just adds weight. Good Luck. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+don=carterdesignassociates.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+don=carterdesignassociates.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Chuck Arnold Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 12:28 PM To: Triumph; Friends Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question I am replacing a ratty top on a 74.5 TR6. Want to know which, if any, of the seals, velcro etc. shown in the Moss catalog I need to buy [total comes to 140 or so for everything]. Is the front seal that mates with the windshield reusable, or does it get destroyed when removed? Am having a professional shop do the install, so want to take all the needed parts to them. Thanks, -- Chuck Arnold Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Wed Dec 19 17:03:19 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:03:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <637442.4890.qm@web81202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Chuck: Absolutely on the header to windshield seal. It will probably get torn or damaged as it is removed anyway. The strips that hold it on are reusable as long as your shop doesn't enlarge the holes too much drilling the rivets out. You'll have to look at the side seals and see if they are pliable. Many times the velcro comes unglued, but is just fine, i which case the side seals are removed, the strips that retain them are removed, and the velcro reglued. If the sside seals aren't pliable they won't survive te removal and reinstallation. Your call on those. Good luck - Ed Chuck Arnold wrote: I am replacing a ratty top on a 74.5 TR6. Want to know which, if any, of the seals, velcro etc. shown in the Moss catalog I need to buy [total comes to 140 or so for everything]. Is the front seal that mates with the windshield reusable, or does it get destroyed when removed? Am having a professional shop do the install, so want to take all the needed parts to them. Thanks, -- Chuck Arnold Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rem9 at frontiernet.net Wed Dec 19 17:43:46 2007 From: rem9 at frontiernet.net (Russ Moore) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:43:46 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question References: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00eb01c842a1$628f3760$03fea8c0@remsec1> Avoid any rubber product made in China. We've had rapid failures of everything from door gaskets, steering rack boots, rod end boots, etc.. Its worth the extra little bit to get the better quality product. Russ Moore ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Triumph" <6pack at autox.team.net>; "Friends" Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 1:27 PM Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question >I am replacing a ratty top on a 74.5 TR6. Want to know which, if any, of > the seals, velcro etc. shown in the Moss catalog I need to buy [total > comes > to 140 or so for everything]. Is the front seal that mates with the > windshield reusable, or does it get destroyed when removed? Am having a > professional shop do the install, so want to take all the needed parts to > them. > Thanks, > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitfiresuz at 141.com Wed Dec 19 18:19:46 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:19:46 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question In-Reply-To: <00eb01c842a1$628f3760$03fea8c0@remsec1> References: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> <00eb01c842a1$628f3760$03fea8c0@remsec1> Message-ID: <4769C332.3050306@141.com> I agree. We just divested ourselves of a set of six Long March tires (for our Airstream motorhome) where not one single tire was in round. (The truck tire place we went to to have them checked said they rarely see good ones.) This was actually after receiving a favorable recommendation from someone who is using them on his moho, but his are a good bit older and the quality may not have been so bad then. We got a set of Toyos to replace them and are very pleased. Fortunately, the tire place reimbursed us in full for the LM's, even after trips to Pennsylvania and Branson on them. Brad said he saw somewhere today that the affluent Chinese are buying high-end Japanese toys, and not Chinese ones. Reminds me of the joke on Jay Leno the other night: A Chinese government official said they had to recall one million pounds of lead, destined for export from their country, because they found toys in it. ;) Susan :) Russ Moore wrote: > Avoid any rubber product made in China. We've had rapid failures of > everything from door gaskets, steering rack boots, rod end boots, etc.. Its > worth the extra little bit to get the better quality product. > > Russ Moore > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From stlnyc at msn.com Wed Dec 19 19:53:49 2007 From: stlnyc at msn.com (Fred & Mary Hodgson) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:53:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question References: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Chuck- Another thing to check is the webbing for the bows. It's often overlooked & is a pain to do after the fact. Fred Hodgson ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Arnold To: Triumph ; Friends Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 11:27 AM Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question I am replacing a ratty top on a 74.5 TR6. Want to know which, if any, of the seals, velcro etc. shown in the Moss catalog I need to buy [total comes to 140 or so for everything]. Is the front seal that mates with the windshield reusable, or does it get destroyed when removed? Am having a professional shop do the install, so want to take all the needed parts to them. Thanks, -- Chuck Arnold _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vintage.racer at comcast.net Wed Dec 19 20:40:23 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:40:23 -0800 Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? Message-ID: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice> Hello All: Hang on to those vintage Triumph racecars! The January 2008 issue of Vintage Racecar magazine contains an ad (page 22) from a UK race car seller for a 1963 TR4 for...hold on to your wallets...37,500 pounds which translates to about $75,000! The car is described as "The most successful and consistent endurance raced TR4 in Europe". Guess this means my mid-pack, California raced TR4 is worth something less than this cars asking price, ha, ha. Gary 1962 TR4 1969 TR6 From EDENMA at aol.com Wed Dec 19 21:00:28 2007 From: EDENMA at aol.com (EDENMA at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:00:28 EST Subject: [Fot] GT6 Stepped manifolds Message-ID: I would also like to locate a set of stepped weber manifolds for the GT6 if anyone else happens to have a set they are not using and would be willing to part with. Cheers! Mark **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From spreiss at verizon.net Wed Dec 19 05:06:08 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:06:08 +1100 Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? References: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice> Message-ID: <000801c84237$8a80a3e0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> It seems the price for TR3s and 4s is much higher in England for all levels of cars. Perhaps it is because most were sold in foreign markets, with the vast majority sent here to the US. Small cars were still very much a novelty here, and disposable income much more widespread. Nevertheless I'm continually amazed at the steady appearance of new candidates for restoration here. No wonder the discrepency in acquisition costs. Perhaps we should start marketing our TRs for sale over there more! Steve Preiss ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary" To: Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 2:40 PM Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > Hello All: > > Hang on to those vintage Triumph racecars! The January 2008 issue of Vintage > Racecar magazine contains an ad (page 22) from a UK race car seller for a 1963 > TR4 for...hold on to your wallets...37,500 pounds which translates to about > $75,000! The car is described as "The most successful and consistent > endurance raced TR4 in Europe". Guess this means my mid-pack, California > raced TR4 is worth something less than this cars asking price, ha, ha. > > Gary > 1962 TR4 > 1969 TR6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Dec 20 06:59:28 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:59:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? In-Reply-To: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice> References: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice> Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BD051E8@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Could that be the Cambridge Motorsports car? I've seen it advertised for big bucks. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 9:40 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? Hello All: Hang on to those vintage Triumph racecars! The January 2008 issue of Vintage Racecar magazine contains an ad (page 22) from a UK race car seller for a 1963 TR4 for...hold on to your wallets...37,500 pounds which translates to about $75,000! The car is described as "The most successful and consistent endurance raced TR4 in Europe". Guess this means my mid-pack, California raced TR4 is worth something less than this cars asking price, ha, ha. Gary 1962 TR4 1969 TR6 Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Dec 20 07:09:24 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:09:24 EST Subject: [Fot] Where Kas' last car....GT6? Message-ID: Lists, I am looking for Kas' Last Car, a GT6. Where is it at. Who owns it? Is it for sale? No, I dont want to buy it. :-) Thanks, Joe A n197tr4 at cs.com From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Dec 20 09:40:22 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:40:22 EST Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? Message-ID: You might also try Racetorations. They do some pretty fantastic work too and have been racing Triumphs for close to 30 years now. Gary Fuqua **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Dec 20 11:52:14 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:52:14 EST Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen:Looking for Candidate Triumph for commissioned painting Message-ID: FoT: I am looking for a Triumph that has serious Provenance, preferably a Triumph that has a History with The Glen. I have one candidate in mind, that may serve the spirit of the painting, but need to consider others. ASAP! Regards, Joe From tr4.tony at virgin.net Fri Dec 21 09:06:35 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:06:35 -0000 Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? References: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice> <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BD051E8@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Message-ID: <004e01c843eb$75c37b20$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> I believe its the Cambridge Motorsport Enduro TR4 ..... all the toys, very very quick ...... and id love it. Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kramer, Robert" To: "Gary" ; Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > Could that be the Cambridge Motorsports car? I've seen it advertised for > big bucks. > > > Bob Kramer > Sales Manager > RDO Equipment Co. > 16415 North IH 35 > Pflugerville, TX 78660 > 512-272-4141 > Fx 512-272-9365 > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of Gary > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 9:40 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > > Hello All: > > Hang on to those vintage Triumph racecars! The January 2008 issue of > Vintage Racecar magazine contains an ad (page 22) from a UK race car > seller for a 1963 > TR4 for...hold on to your wallets...37,500 pounds which translates to > about $75,000! The car is described as "The most successful and > consistent endurance raced TR4 in Europe". Guess this means my > mid-pack, California raced TR4 is worth something less than this cars > asking price, ha, ha. > > Gary > 1962 TR4 > 1969 TR6 > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Dec 21 13:02:46 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:02:46 -0800 Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? References: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice><950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BD051E8@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> <004e01c843eb$75c37b20$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Message-ID: <006401c8440c$75428850$1b02a8c0@workstation3> Don't forget the pound is pretty strong right now and in the UK a pound buys as much as dollar does in the US (or close). So if you think about it that way the cars is only about $37,500, which may not be bad for a TR4 with history. The problem is if we were to sell it for $37500 here the Brits would be able to pick it up for about 17000 pounds. I hate to see all the British cars go back to their homeland. Maybe some day we can get our dollar strong again and start buying them back. A Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays to all. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 BTW, I finished 2nd in overall points this year in the small bore group in SOVREN. Quite an accomplishment for a TR6! ----- Original Message ----- From: "TR4Tony" To: "Kramer, Robert" ; "Gary" ; Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > I believe its the Cambridge Motorsport Enduro TR4 ..... all the toys, very > very quick ...... and id love it. > > Tony > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kramer, Robert" > To: "Gary" ; > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 1:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > > > > Could that be the Cambridge Motorsports car? I've seen it advertised for > > big bucks. > > > > > > Bob Kramer > > Sales Manager > > RDO Equipment Co. > > 16415 North IH 35 > > Pflugerville, TX 78660 > > 512-272-4141 > > Fx 512-272-9365 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net > > [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf > > Of Gary > > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 9:40 PM > > To: fot at autox.team.net > > Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > > > > Hello All: > > > > Hang on to those vintage Triumph racecars! The January 2008 issue of > > Vintage Racecar magazine contains an ad (page 22) from a UK race car > > seller for a 1963 > > TR4 for...hold on to your wallets...37,500 pounds which translates to > > about $75,000! The car is described as "The most successful and > > consistent endurance raced TR4 in Europe". Guess this means my > > mid-pack, California raced TR4 is worth something less than this cars > > asking price, ha, ha. > > > > Gary > > 1962 TR4 > > 1969 TR6 > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 22 14:37:33 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:37:33 EST Subject: [Fot] Joe & Dottie Richards to be Honored at Watkins Glen (TR2 TS1 LO) Message-ID: THE FOT TO HONOR THE RICHARDS AT WATKINS GLEN In 1980 Joe Richards purchased TR2 TS1 LO and subsequently spent 18 years of his life meticulously restoring the first TR2. Targeted by the UK at the North America market, it featured LHD and Overdrive. This merits our attention and respect, as Joe and his family preserved an important part of our Triumph Racing Heritage. The TR2 was the first low cost performance sports car that enabled the rapid growth of our sport in North America. Hill, Gurney, Kastner, and many more talented racers started their careers with TR2s and TR3s. Joe and Dottie have agreed to join us in the paddock with the number one TR2 on display. They will also be participating in activities in the Village of Watkins Glen. FOT Robert Smith will be working with the Richards for the transport and display of the TR2 TS1 LO and coordinating their activities. Press releases, on this and other FOT activities will be forthcoming by one of our sponsors, CLASSIC MOTORSPORTS MAGAZINE. In the meantime, please review the following link that contains pictures of how the UK Honored the Richards in 2003 for the 50th Anniversary of the Marque. www.triumphregister.com/TS1%20LO%20Returns%20Home%20to%20Britain.html Regards, Joe Alexander Robert Smith From mark at bradakis.com Sat Dec 22 16:49:11 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:49:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Away for a bit Message-ID: <476DA277.4040009@bradakis.com> Gee, the days are getting longer now, 100 degree temps could be here any day now! Well, maybe there's a bit of time before summer actually shows up here in Utah. Plenty of time for me to plan on attending the big event at Watkins Glen. I have a feeling it may be better attended than the FOT race here at Miller's track this past summer. Anyway, we'll be heading to the airport soon for a quick trip to visit family for Christmas, hopefully the Team.Net servers won't act up in my absence. I should be back on wednesday to deal with them if they do. mjb. From b_close at hotmail.com Sat Dec 22 20:13:08 2007 From: b_close at hotmail.com (Bill Close) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:13:08 -0700 Subject: [Fot] rust free TR-4 for sale Message-ID: I have been saving this 1964 TR-4 to restore but have lost my storage and the room it would take to restore it. It has been a Phoenix, Arizona car we think all of its life. It is a complete car minus uphostry and windshield. I do have the windshield frame and TR-250 or early TR-4 seats. It has been stored inside most of its life. The frame was powder coated gloss black , floor pans are solid as are the rockers, no rust under the bottom of the fenders, the body is pretty straight. I had to reassemble the car and reinstall the body, parts are boxed and packed away for storage or shipping. Car is a roller with motor and 4 speed trans installed. Solid rear axle and disc wheels with hubcaps. $2,500. Arizona title.Bill Close Mesa, AZ (602)524-5351 _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sun Dec 23 11:28:58 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:28:58 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Cyl Head Stud sealant Message-ID: <000601c84591$aefaddf0$0301000a@Chowdown> Do you all like to use loctite red or black permatex silicone sealant when installing head studs? Thanks in advance. ~Steve From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 23 13:26:19 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:26:19 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications References: <000601c84591$aefaddf0$0301000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: I've had a number of people ask me about modifying the upper "a" arm with rose joints as I did on Peyote. I'm really hesitant to help folks do this since you can really screw up your front suspension and make the car more than a bit squirrelly. There isn't a recipe for improving the handling of a TR3/4 other than the kind of results you should end up with. Shortening the upper A arm to gain camber is not a great modification, though it's common. I've modeled this several different ways, and it always looks ugly. I'm convinced that the main reason most of us wind up with stiff springs is that when the suspension moves it's a bad thing. With shortened upper arms you can wind up with six or even seven degrees of camber at full upward travel. You don't need a computer to show this, just pull the lower shock and spring plate and run the suspension up to the bump stop. You'll be horrified at how much your tire tips inward if you have short upper arms. The contact patch is probably a half inch wide or less. No wonder these cars understeer under hard cornering. My recommendations are. 1. Buy all of Kas' books. 2. Read them. 3. Read them again. 4. Measure your camber at center, full extension and full bump. 5. Look at the rules for the organization you run with. If they allow you to move the upper suspension pivot point, and you're going to run radials, move the suspension point inward and use full length arms. You want to wind up with 2-3 degrees of camber at the center position. 6. If you can't do that, consider small changes like using the TR6 or Jag ball joint. Personally, the change I like best for TR3 suspension is using a TR6 lower trunnion, upper arms and ball joint. It gives you three degrees of caster and if you really need camber adjustment you can slot the attachment bolt holes for the ball joint or drill alternate location holes. I'd give up a little camber with the suspension at ride height rather than have way too much when the wheel is loaded. That caster might add wear to the worm and pin steering, but if you're exclusively racing the car, not street driving it, that won't matter. Having the car stable when the steering input is light (or gone, in my case) is a great thing. I've harped on this before, but the bump steer in these cars is horrific. You can work to eliminate that and have a car that works so much better you won't believe the difference. Once you do that you can soften those springs and let the suspension work some. Makes another huge difference. From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Dec 23 14:24:19 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:24:19 EST Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications Message-ID: In a message dated 12/23/2007 12:30:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: I've harped on this before, but the bump steer in these cars is horrific. You can work to eliminate that and have a car that works so much better you won't believe the difference. Once you do that you can soften those springs and let the suspension work some. Makes another huge difference. Amen! **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From fubog1 at aol.com Sun Dec 23 14:53:52 2007 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:53:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA13C570E67C88-57C-3C79@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> uhh, this gets a second AMEN! The cars have a suspension system, might as well use it... Good post Bill! Merry X-mas to all Glen -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: BillB at bnj.com; colordog.1 at earthlink.net; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 4:24 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications In a message dated 12/23/2007 12:30:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: I've harped on this before, but the bump steer in these cars is horrific. You can work to eliminate that and have a car that works so much better you won't believe the difference. Once you do that you can soften those springs and let the suspension work some. Makes another huge difference. Amen! **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Sun Dec 23 16:18:06 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:18:06 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c845ba$13783de0$b1191718@computer> Do these comments apply to the TR6? Thanks, Jim Two '74 TR6s -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 12:26 PM To: Steve Belfer; Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications I've had a number of people ask me about modifying the upper "a" arm with rose joints as I did on Peyote. I'm really hesitant to help folks do this since you can really screw up your front suspension and make the car more than a bit squirrelly. There isn't a recipe for improving the handling of a TR3/4 other than the kind of results you should end up with. Shortening the upper A arm to gain camber is not a great modification, though it's common. I've modeled this several different ways, and it always looks ugly. I'm convinced that the main reason most of us wind up with stiff springs is that when the suspension moves it's a bad thing. With shortened upper arms you can wind up with six or even seven degrees of camber at full upward travel. You don't need a computer to show this, just pull the lower shock and spring plate and run the suspension up to the bump stop. You'll be horrified at how much your tire tips inward if you have short upper arms. The contact patch is probably a half inch wide or less. No wonder these cars understeer under hard cornering. My recommendations are. 1. Buy all of Kas' books. 2. Read them. 3. Read them again. 4. Measure your camber at center, full extension and full bump. 5. Look at the rules for the organization you run with. If they allow you to move the upper suspension pivot point, and you're going to run radials, move the suspension point inward and use full length arms. You want to wind up with 2-3 degrees of camber at the center position. 6. If you can't do that, consider small changes like using the TR6 or Jag ball joint. Personally, the change I like best for TR3 suspension is using a TR6 lower trunnion, upper arms and ball joint. It gives you three degrees of caster and if you really need camber adjustment you can slot the attachment bolt holes for the ball joint or drill alternate location holes. I'd give up a little camber with the suspension at ride height rather than have way too much when the wheel is loaded. That caster might add wear to the worm and pin steering, but if you're exclusively racing the car, not street driving it, that won't matter. Having the car stable when the steering input is light (or gone, in my case) is a great thing. I've harped on this before, but the bump steer in these cars is horrific. You can work to eliminate that and have a car that works so much better you won't believe the difference. Once you do that you can soften those springs and let the suspension work some. Makes another huge difference. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Sun Dec 23 17:55:56 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:55:56 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Rear Diff Oil Message-ID: <81f63f5d81d5876e115d216f586cb4b7@wi.rr.com> FoT, What type of rear diff oil are you running when you have either a Quaiffe, Detroit Locker or other such LSD? Have a great holiday! Allen Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From spitlist at cox.net Sun Dec 23 21:07:56 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:07:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear Diff Oil In-Reply-To: <81f63f5d81d5876e115d216f586cb4b7@wi.rr.com> References: <81f63f5d81d5876e115d216f586cb4b7@wi.rr.com> Message-ID: <000601c845e2$90787d00$0202a8c0@newcomputer> Quaife says to use whatever you were using before installing their carrier. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Allen Washatko Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 5:56 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Rear Diff Oil FoT, What type of rear diff oil are you running when you have either a Quaiffe, Detroit Locker or other such LSD? Have a great holiday! Allen Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 23 21:16:53 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:16:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Cool Photo sequence Message-ID: <20071224042513.SRMG28314.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> These photos were taken at our November Enduro event at Firebird's Main track. These were taken during the Qualifying session. Cool sequence entering the Tower Turn. Doing about 55.9 mph and pulling 1.61 G's at this point according to our data acquisition computer. You can see them really leaning their heads into the corner as Tyler (#18) and Rich (#54) try to cut under the kart in front of them with a tighter line. http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4119.jpg http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4120.jpg http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4121.jpg http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4122.jpg You can then see Tyler has the inside rear wheel WAY OFF the ground in this shot going around the corner on three wheels to cut it even tighter to pass Rich and the kart in front of Rich. The guy that took the photos added a graphic showing how far off the ground the wheel is and added a comment. HeHe... http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4123.jpg Here you can see that his line has changed a ton from doing that. http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4124.jpg Tyler Qualified 3rd out of Top speed at the end of the front straight is 102.3 mph Top RPM: 12,592 Top G load seen: 2.11 Between Turns 9 and 10 the 125cc Shifter karts are in sixth gear doing 90 mph and within 1.7 seconds they will transition from a left hand turn pulling 1.65 G to the right hand turn where they will pull 2.11 G. The absolute highest G I have seen him hit on Firebird was the section entering what is known as the "Concrete Canyon" where he got to 2.65 G Here is a helmet cam video taken during the Qualifying session that same day http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=88 Second Row on the right hand side. The kart you briefly see going off track (it flipped) brought out a black flag right in the middle of the session. From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Mon Dec 24 06:19:42 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:19:42 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Chainwheels In-Reply-To: <003b01c8440b$7c135570$6700a8c0@Edscomputer> References: <003b01c8440b$7c135570$6700a8c0@Edscomputer> Message-ID: <200712241420.lBOEJtpa115069@ns3.geneseo.net> I use a new chain, a new crank sprocket, and an adjustable cam sprocket so I can more easily degree the cam. A street car doesn't need the luxury of the adjustable sprocket because hopefully it doesn't have to come apart as often as a race car. I find that the new parts are okay, but the cam sprockets do not have the holes drilled the way the old ones did, which allowed you to get the cam timing pretty close. The new ones are drilled exactly symmetrical, so you can only set the timing as close as one tooth difference. I believe you must also put your own mark on it for the next disassembly. At 01:55 PM 12/21/2007, you wrote: >Listers, > >I attempted to fit a new timing chain to a TR4 engine this morning. >It's loose as a goose, so I suspect that new crank and cam >chainwheels are in order, part nos. 55971 and 57113. > >I'm always leery of repro parts, so wonder what's out there for this >application. > >Does anyone have any experience with the currently available items? > >What are the FOT guys using? > >Thanks, > >Ed Woods From tr6nut at verizon.net Mon Dec 24 08:10:03 2007 From: tr6nut at verizon.net (Hugh Barber) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 10:10:03 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Happy Holidays to All of You Message-ID: <476FCBCB.30402@verizon.net> I just wanted to take a moment and wish all of you a very Merry Christmas / Happy Hanukkah / Merry Festivus and a happy and safe New Year. Hugh Barber Stafford, VA '73 TR6 From budscars at msn.com Mon Dec 24 08:21:47 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:21:47 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Happy Holidays to All of You References: <476FCBCB.30402@verizon.net> Message-ID: Thank You!..Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to All! Racer Bud..Sonoma, Ca. 67 Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hugh Barber" To: ; "Triumph List" ; "6pack" <6pack at autox.team.net> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 7:10 AM Subject: [Fot] Happy Holidays to All of You >I just wanted to take a moment and wish all of you a very Merry > Christmas / Happy Hanukkah / Merry Festivus and a happy and safe New Year. > > Hugh Barber > Stafford, VA > '73 TR6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Dec 24 10:32:19 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 17:32:19 GMT Subject: [Fot] Rear Diff Oil Message-ID: <20071224.123219.22135.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com> I use Redline Shockproof Heavy gear oil. I was using the lighter formula until I broke a ring and pinion and was told that the Heavy is better. I have used it with a detriot locker and a Tran-X (salisbury type) diff. I spoke with Redline about what to use with the Tran-X and they said either the light or heavy was good to use. Joe(B) -- Allen Washatko wrote: FoT, What type of rear diff oil are you running when you have either a Quaiffe, Detroit Locker or other such LSD? Have a great holiday! Allen Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Make a difference. Click to start a career in medical administration and increase your income. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijndnNMLjJ6QcyESktlzjp0lg ZKE34yxux15wwviYFzI1IOKv/ From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 24 11:02:59 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 10:02:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications References: <20071224.124426.22135.2@webmail19.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Oops, bounced for over the word limit. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 9:59 AM To: Joe Boruch; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Suspension modifications Sorry, I was being imprecise, didn't know the TR6 ones are different. I'm using these control arm bits (moss): 661-060 $84.95 CONTROL ARM, upper rear TR4 from CT6344 (wire whl.) CT6391 (disc whl.) 661-050 $39.95 CONTROL ARM, upper front TR4 from CT6344 (wire whl.) CT6391 (disc whl.) 661-080 $48.10 BALL JOINT PAIR (w/nut, boot and clip) Note:Permanently lubricated (no grease nipple) TR4 from CT6344 (wire whl.) CT6391 (disc whl.) And these lower trunnions: 661-450 $106.95 TRUNNION, R/H bot. (30 castor) Note: Current trunnion pins are not drilled for cotter pins. Use nyloc nut #310-320 (2 per trunnion). Use grease seal 520-220 with all replacement trunnion TR4 from CT6343, (wire whl.), CT6390 (disc whl.) 661-460 $106.95 TRUNNION, L/H bot. Note: Current trunnion pins are not drilled for cotter pins. Use nyloc nut #310-320 (2 per trunnion). Use grease seal 520-220 with all replacement trunnion TR4 from CT6343, (wire whl.), CT6390 (disc whl.) 1 -----Original Message----- From: Joe Boruch [mailto:jaboruch at netzero.net] Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 9:44 AM To: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications Bill, when you say to use TR6 lower trunnions, do you mean the whole upright? The TR6 Trunions (the brass part that screws onto the bottom of the upright) has a larger thread than the TR3-4-4A ones. Joe(B) - From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Dec 24 11:23:41 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 18:23:41 GMT Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR3's and TR4's Message-ID: <20071224.132341.13626.1@webmail07.dca.untd.com> I received my SCCA 2008 GCR in the mail recently and to my horror I discovered that Triumph TR3's and TR4's were no longer included in the Production Car Specs. SCCA had talked about dropping the TR2 from the PCS since it has been a while since any of them have raced with SCCA. Likely some no mind just eliminated the whole line, including the TR3's and TR4's, rather than only eliminating the TR2. Just in case this was not a clerical error, would all of you FOTers that are SCCA members drop a note to the SCCA to relist TR3's and TR4's. You can email the Competition Board at CRB at SCCA.com. Thanks, Joe(B) _____________________________________________________________ Click now to turn any floor into a dance floor! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlKfLn2bltJf6OMhro07Ab44 I8aFhhleZtmvD3M7eAq9Aqh0/ From wgrosenbach at juno.com Mon Dec 24 12:28:25 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:28:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Track Elevation Changes Message-ID: <20071224.122825.3608.1.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Christmas & assorted - associated Greetings, The following is a link to the bulletin board on the RMVR website containing an item I posted regarding track elevation changes on tracks in North America. http://p092.ezboard.com/frmvrfrm19.showMessage?topicID=39.topic It contains a link to a spreadsheet comparing the tracks. Enjoy, Bill From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 24 13:01:59 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:01:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications References: <000601c84591$aefaddf0$0301000a@Chowdown> <200712241931.lBOJV9b4270273@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: I don't run this modification on Peyote, but I did on my cheater TR3, and I probably will add a version of it to Peyote this year. I made a 1/4" steel plate that holds the pivot point using two countersunk screws to hold the rear of the pivot to the plate. The front pivot bolts go tthrough the original back pivot holes, and the front of the plate bolts to the original front pivot bolt holes. This moves the pivot back the width of the pivot bolt hole spacing--about 1.6 inches as I recall. According to SusProg it's too much, but it's easy to do and it works pretty well. Most of the force against the pivot pushes the plate down against the shock towerr--I never had even a hint of bending or other problems. In fact I forgot to fully tighten the countersunk bolts once and didn't have any problem. Many years ago I recall seeing someone run a TR3 with the pivot moved back and only bolted on the front side through the rear bolt holes--same idea but a much scarier approach. In fact it was the inspiration for my modification. You need to make the upper arms longer to clear the shock tower and give a proper amount of camber, so it makes sense to convert to rose joints and have adjustability. With the stock arms you'd have about four degrees of camber, which is too much for our semi-radial tires. I'm a bit fuzzy on how I set that up, but I recollect it was 3 degrees with Comp TA tires and 3.5 with Yokohama A008's. With the arms set for bias ply tires (0 to 1 degree) I had about two degrees of camber gain at full bump (according to my sketchy notes). -----Original Message----- From: Jack W. Drews [mailto:vinttr4 at geneseo.net] Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 11:30 AM To: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications I agree with everything you've said about the camber change, the excess at full limit, small contact patch at high camber angle, and the advisability of leaving the upper a-arm at least as long as stock -- maybe longer is even better. I'd like to modify my car as you suggest. Last winter I spent some amount of time trying to figure out how to do that and was not successful in figuring it out. I have one photo somewhere of one of your cars, Peyote I think, that looks like the new attaching points are on brackets welded to the front and back of the tower and braced at least in the rear to the diagonal brace to the rear. My problem was trying to figure out how to do that on a car with stock bodywork without removing the body. Any suggestions? From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 24 13:07:51 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:07:51 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications References: <000601c84591$aefaddf0$0301000a@Chowdown><200712241931.lBOJV9b4270273@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: Here's a hint that goes along with this. When you want to adjust the heim (rose) joints just remove the two bolts that hold the upper arm to the ball joint and turn the arms in or out to adjust. I'm still embarrassed about how long ti took me to figure that one out. I was disassembling half the car to make the adjustments. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Bill Babcock Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 12:01 PM To: Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications I don't run this modification on Peyote, but I did on my cheater TR3, and I probably will add a version of it to Peyote this year. I made a 1/4" steel plate that holds the pivot point using two countersunk screws to hold the rear of the pivot to the plate. The front pivot bolts go tthrough the original back pivot holes, and the front of the plate bolts to the original front pivot bolt holes. This moves the pivot back the width of the pivot bolt hole spacing--about 1.6 inches as I recall. According to SusProg it's too much, but it's easy to do and it works pretty well. Most of the force against the pivot pushes the plate down against the shock towerr--I never had even a hint of bending or other problems. In fact I forgot to fully tighten the countersunk bolts once and didn't have any problem. Many years ago I recall seeing someone run a TR3 with the pivot moved back and only bolted on the front side through the rear bolt holes--same idea but a much scarier approach. In fact it was the inspiration for my modification. You need to make the upper arms longer to clear the shock tower and give a proper amount of camber, so it makes sense to convert to rose joints and have adjustability. With the stock arms you'd have about four degrees of camber, which is too much for our semi-radial tires. I'm a bit fuzzy on how I set that up, but I recollect it was 3 degrees with Comp TA tires and 3.5 with Yokohama A008's. With the arms set for bias ply tires (0 to 1 degree) I had about two degrees of camber gain at full bump (according to my sketchy notes). -----Original Message----- From: Jack W. Drews [mailto:vinttr4 at geneseo.net] Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 11:30 AM To: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications I agree with everything you've said about the camber change, the excess at full limit, small contact patch at high camber angle, and the advisability of leaving the upper a-arm at least as long as stock -- maybe longer is even better. I'd like to modify my car as you suggest. Last winter I spent some amount of time trying to figure out how to do that and was not successful in figuring it out. I have one photo somewhere of one of your cars, Peyote I think, that looks like the new attaching points are on brackets welded to the front and back of the tower and braced at least in the rear to the diagonal brace to the rear. My problem was trying to figure out how to do that on a car with stock bodywork without removing the body. Any suggestions? Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Mon Dec 24 14:53:42 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:53:42 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Holiday Greetings Message-ID: <4b8121c2fa55f1479b5a25ed4686e193@wi.rr.com> FoT, Just wanted to stop and wish all of you a joyous and fulfilling holiday. I also wanted to thank everyone for their many responses and valuable contributions to my email questions as well as others over the past year. It really makes this "British endeavor" easier and much more enjoyable! Peace, Allen Allen & Jody Washatko 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From dave at microworks.net Mon Dec 24 15:02:31 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:02:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Message-ID: <20071224220710.ZOX18667.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a brilliant TR6. http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 Top video on the page From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 24 15:44:59 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:44:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... In-Reply-To: <20071224220710.ZOX18667.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <935155.47093.qm@web81111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> but .... shoveling snow in wisconsin is soooooooo much more fun .. "David W. Riddle" wrote: Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a brilliant TR6. http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 Top video on the page Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From westerneagleracing at att.net Mon Dec 24 16:51:39 2007 From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:51:39 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Message-ID: <122420072351.4830.4770460B00021410000012DE22193100029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Happy Holidays to All. Its 60 degrees in Marin County California and if the garage was open I would take my racing TR4 out (it is "street legal") (well it at least has a license plate). Gary, are you driving the ex-Ron Jacobs TR6? Ron Jacobs, Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from "David W. Riddle" : -------------- > Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a > brilliant TR6. > > http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 > > Top video on the page > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jerrybarr at charter.net Mon Dec 24 17:12:21 2007 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 18:12:21 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... In-Reply-To: <122420072351.4830.4770460B00021410000012DE22193100029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> References: <122420072351.4830.4770460B00021410000012DE22193100029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: I live in Door County Wisconsin which sticks out into Lake Michigan It is 25 degrees with 4 inches of fresh snow today. The previous storm we had 6 inches of wind driven snow with gusts to 50 mph and gusts to 80 mph out on the lake. I'm trying to think of why I stay here in the winter. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!! On Dec 24, 2007, at 5:51 PM, westerneagleracing at att.net wrote: > Happy Holidays to All. > > Its 60 degrees in Marin County California and if the garage was open > I would take my racing TR4 out (it is "street legal") (well it at > least has a license plate). > > Gary, are you driving the ex-Ron Jacobs TR6? > > Ron Jacobs, Western Eagle Racing > > -------------- Original message from "David W. Riddle" >: -------------- > > >> Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a >> brilliant TR6. >> >> http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 >> >> Top video on the page >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 24 20:00:27 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:00:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Message-ID: <0237B765.04D7B122.00159EE9@cs.com> two hours behind a brilliant snowblower here. >Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a >brilliant TR6. > >http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 > >Top video on the page >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From SMITH1127 at aol.com Mon Dec 24 21:33:07 2007 From: SMITH1127 at aol.com (SMITH1127 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:33:07 EST Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Message-ID: I changed out a faulty generator in the TR3B and took it for a quick open car ride to make sure all was well. Filed my fingernails on the pavement while looking at the snow on Mauna Loa and Mauna Kea. Yeah, its Hawaii, but somebody's got to do it.....Mele Kalikimaka! Robert **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Dec 24 22:21:22 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:21:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... References: <122420072351.4830.4770460B00021410000012DE22193100029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: To Ron & all of you, a Blessed time to you all & yours. Ron, please say hello to my home town "The city by the Bay". The snow is almost melted here with a 50% chance of a dusting for Christmas day. (only in Colo.) Kev Lynch GT6 #6 RMVR ----- Original Message ----- From: westerneagleracing at att.net To: David W. Riddle Cc: wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Happy Holidays to All. Its 60 degrees in Marin County California and if the garage was open I would take my racing TR4 out (it is "street legal") (well it at least has a license plate). Gary, are you driving the ex-Ron Jacobs TR6? Ron Jacobs, Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from "David W. Riddle" >: -------------- > Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a > brilliant TR6. > > http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 > > Top video on the page > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 25 00:11:15 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:11:15 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... References: Message-ID: Mele Kalikimaka indeed. I;ll be back in Maui on January 3rd, thank god. Rainy and crappy in Portland. Egg Nog, a fire, family and friends makes it worthwhile, but I'm looking forward to surfing my guts out. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of SMITH1127 at aol.com Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 8:33 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com; dave at microworks.net; fot at autox.team.net; wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Eat your heart out... I changed out a faulty generator in the TR3B and took it for a quick open car ride to make sure all was well. Filed my fingernails on the pavement while looking at the snow on Mauna Loa and Mauna Kea. Yeah, its Hawaii, but somebody's got to do it.....Mele Kalikimaka! Robert **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Tue Dec 25 00:45:20 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 02:45:20 EST Subject: [Fot] God rest ye Merry Gentemen Message-ID: I just wanted to say, Yueltide Greetings, Compliments of the Season, and a Very Merry Christmas to one and all at this Festive Time. God Bless you one and all. Leon F Guyot Medford, OR From gp89 at charter.net Tue Dec 25 07:01:59 2007 From: gp89 at charter.net (gp89 at charter.net) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 6:01:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] From the SCCA Prodcar forum In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071225090159.LXO7P.121597.root@fepweb08> prodracing.com Forum Index prodracing.com Unofficial SCCA Production Car Racing Message Board Visit the Colorado Region SCCA FAQFAQ SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist UsergroupsUsergroups RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL.... Post new topic Reply to topic prodracing.com Forum Index -> General Discussion View previous topic :: View next topic Author Message Lesley Joined: 05 Jun 2006 Posts: 56 Location: Anadarko, Oklahoma PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL.... Reply with quote THE GIFT Author Unknown T'WAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS, HE LIVED ALL ALONE, IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE MADE OF PLASTER AND STONE. I HAD COME DOWN THE CHIMNEY WITH PRESENTS TO GIVE, AND TO SEE JUST WHO IN THIS HOME DID LIVE. I LOOKED ALL ABOUT, A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE, NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS, NOT EVEN A TREE. NO STOCKING BY MANTLE, JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND, ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURES OF FAR DISTANT LANDS. WITH MEDALS AND BADGES, AWARDS OF ALL KINDS, A SOBER THOUGHT CAME THROUGH MY MIND. FOR THIS HOUSE WAS DIFFERENT, IT WAS DARK AND DREARY, I FOUND THE HOME OF A SOLDIER, ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY. THE SOLDIER LAY SLEEPING, SILENT, ALONE, CURLED UP ON THE FLOOR IN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME. THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE, THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER, NOT HOW I PICTURED A UNITED STATES SOLDIER. WAS THIS THE HERO OF WHOM I'D JUST READ? CURLED UP ON A PONCHO, THE FLOOR FOR A BED? I REALIZED THE FAMILIES THAT I SAW THIS NIGHT, OWED THEIR LIVES TO THESE SOLDIERS WHO WERE WILLING TO FIGHT. SOON ROUND THE WORLD, THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY, AND GROWNUPS WOULD CELEBRATE A BRIGHT CHRISTMAS DAY. THEY ALL ENJOYED FREEDOM EACH MONTH OF THE YEAR, BECAUSE OF THE SOLDIERS, LIKE THE ONE LYING HERE. I COULDN'T HELP WONDER HOW MANY LAY ALONE, ON A COLD CHRISTMAS EVE IN A LAND FAR FROM HOME. THE VERY THOUGHT BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE, I DROPPED TO MY KNEES AND STARTED TO CRY. THE SOLDIER AWAKENED AND I HEARD A ROUGH VOICE, "SANTA DON'T CRY, THIS LIFE IS MY CHOICE; I FIGHT FOR FREEDOM, I DON'T ASK FOR MORE, MY LIFE IS MY GOD, MY COUNTRY, MY CORPS." THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER AND SOON DRIFTED TO SLEEP, I COULDN'T CONTROL IT, I CONTINUED TO WEEP. I KEPT WATCH FOR HOURS, SO SILENT AND STILL AND WE BOTH SHIVERED FROM THE COLD NIGHT'S CHILL. I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE ON THAT COLD, DARK, NIGHT, THIS GUARDIAN OF HONOR SO WILLING TO FIGHT. THEN THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER, WITH A VOICE SOFT AND PURE, WHISPERED, "CARRY ON SANTA, IT'S CHRISTMAS DAY, ALL IS SECURE." ONE LOOK AT MY WATCH, AND I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT. "MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FRIEND, AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT." Back to top From twakeman at razzolink.com Tue Dec 25 07:06:15 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 06:06:15 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47710E57.7060106@razzolink.com> My TR3 took my housemate and I out to breakfast on the 24th. That evening the top came off, we bundled up and drove into Monterey to look at Christmas lights in the TR3. Some Land Rover friends and I have a New Years tradition that goes back over a decade now. To end the year out on the trail driving our Land Rovers with friends, camping and enjoying each others company bundled up around the camp fire (usually below freezing at nights). Then to start the new year out on the trail driving our Land Rovers, being close to nature with good friends. We drive the Mojave trail over New Years. If you are a Land Rover off road type, it seems a fitting way to end a year and a promising way to begin a new year. A Happy Christmas to all and an auspicious New year! TeriAnn From twakeman at razzolink.com Tue Dec 25 07:06:15 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 06:06:15 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47710E57.3000104@razzolink.com> My TR3 took my housemate and I out to breakfast on the 24th. That evening the top came off, we bundled up and drove into Monterey to look at Christmas lights in the TR3. Some Land Rover friends and I have a New Years tradition that goes back over a decade now. To end the year out on the trail driving our Land Rovers with friends, camping and enjoying each others company bundled up around the camp fire (usually below freezing at nights). Then to start the new year out on the trail driving our Land Rovers, being close to nature with good friends. We drive the Mojave trail over New Years. If you are a Land Rover off road type, it seems a fitting way to end a year and a promising way to begin a new year. A Happy Christmas to all and an auspicious New year! TeriAnn From billdentin at aol.com Tue Dec 25 07:26:15 2007 From: billdentin at aol.com (billdentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 09:26:15 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... In-Reply-To: References: <122420072351.4830.4770460B00021410000012DE22193100029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: <8CA15193DED9734-CCC-761@Webmail-mg21.sysops.aol.com> Yeap...I'm a Wisconsin boy myself.? White Christmas is a given.? But three of my four children and their families live?300 miles northwest in the Twin Cities (Minnesota).? Now THAT's winter, and that's where I am.? They have two seasons.? Winter and 4th of July.? Ho ho ho. Merry Christmas and warmest holiday wishes to one and all. Bill (Damdinger)? -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Barr To: westerneagleracing at att.net Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 6:12 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Eat your heart out... I live in Door County Wisconsin which sticks out into Lake Michigan It is 25 degrees with 4 inches of fresh snow today. The previous storm we had 6 inches of wind driven snow with gusts to 50 mph and gusts to 80 mph out on the lake. I'm trying to think of why I stay here in the winter. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!! On Dec 24, 2007, at 5:51 PM, westerneagleracing at att.net wrote: > Happy Holidays to All. > > Its 60 degrees in Marin County California and if the garage was open > I would take my racing TR4 out (it is "street legal") (well it at > least has a license plate). > > Gary, are you driving the ex-Ron Jacobs TR6? > > Ron Jacobs, Western Eagle Racing > > -------------- Original message from "David W. Riddle" >: -------------- > > >> Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a >> brilliant TR6. >> >> http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 >> >> Top video on the page >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com From wgrosenbach at juno.com Tue Dec 25 08:24:20 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 08:24:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Message-ID: <20071225.082420.2508.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> >>>To Ron & all of you, a Blessed time to you all & yours. Ron, please say hello to my home town "The city by the Bay". The snow is almost melted here with a 50% chance of a dusting for Christmas day. (only in Colo.) Kev Lynch GT6 #6 RMVR Woke up to almost 4 inches of 'dust' this morning! Still snowing. Bing would be proud. Must be Santa's magic dust. Chains required. Spitfire would go through most anything with chains. Merry Christmas, Bill From kaskas at cox.net Tue Dec 25 09:03:49 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 08:03:49 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise Message-ID: <006a01c8470f$bca4d620$3f0ec548@RW> Okay, so it is not deep snow , but instead brilliant sunshine but Santa still comes this way as his new sled has wheels for certain parts of the country. .......a Merry Christmas to all and remember to pat your TR on this day. As a surprise, I have a small gift for everyone who races: This message when dissolved in 105 octane gasoline is worth 11 horsepower and another 400 rpm in top gear. Do not destroy or attempt to sell as it only applies to the original owner. ( the racing elves keep close accounting) I suggest saving this assistance until a time of real need in 2008. From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Tue Dec 25 10:59:44 2007 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:59:44 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise References: <006a01c8470f$bca4d620$3f0ec548@RW> Message-ID: <001401c8471f$ef5c6ff0$6401a8c0@Elliott> A week ago, some local rally experts were checking out the rally route for an up-coming rally to be held in January. They were driving in the Laurentian mountains (more like hills) north of Montreal (not too far from Mont Tremblant race track) and during the night, they saw 7 reindeer along the sides of the road, on top of the 8 foot high snow banks and in the snow canyon in the road that was formed by the high snowbanks. They thought that Santa Claus had come early and had lost 7/8th of his reindeer-power. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 11:03 AM Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise > Okay, so it is not deep snow , but instead brilliant sunshine but Santa > still > comes this way as his new sled has wheels for certain parts of the > country. > > .......a Merry Christmas to all and remember to pat your TR on this day. > As a > surprise, I have a small gift for everyone who races: > > This message when dissolved in 105 octane gasoline is worth 11 horsepower > and > another 400 rpm in top gear. Do not destroy or attempt to sell as it only > applies to the original owner. ( the racing elves keep close accounting) > > I suggest saving this assistance until a time of real need in 2008. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 25 11:17:34 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 10:17:34 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise References: <006a01c8470f$bca4d620$3f0ec548@RW> Message-ID: I tried to print it, but my inkjet caught fire and is now serving as a smelly replacement for the yule log. Then I tried to pat Peyote and laid my finger open on a new aluminum panel that I forgot to deburr. I don't think Peyote responds well to patting. Back to the egg nog. Note to self--doubling the amount of rum is not a good idea. No one else will drink it, and I don't like to see it go to waste... I'm not going to be able to go for a post-prandial drive, Diane has hidden all the keys. Merry, merry. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Kas Kastner Sent: Tue 12/25/2007 8:03 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise Okay, so it is not deep snow , but instead brilliant sunshine but Santa still comes this way as his new sled has wheels for certain parts of the country. .......a Merry Christmas to all and remember to pat your TR on this day. As a surprise, I have a small gift for everyone who races: This message when dissolved in 105 octane gasoline is worth 11 horsepower and another 400 rpm in top gear. Do not destroy or attempt to sell as it only applies to the original owner. ( the racing elves keep close accounting) I suggest saving this assistance until a time of real need in 2008. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 25 11:17:57 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 10:17:57 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise References: <006a01c8470f$bca4d620$3f0ec548@RW> Message-ID: On a positive note, with all these grandkids running around and guests swapping lies at the top of their voices, 110 octane eggnog is an excellent tranquilizer. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Bill Babcock Sent: Tue 12/25/2007 10:17 AM To: Kas Kastner; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Christmas surprise I tried to print it, but my inkjet caught fire and is now serving as a smelly replacement for the yule log. Then I tried to pat Peyote and laid my finger open on a new aluminum panel that I forgot to deburr. I don't think Peyote responds well to patting. Back to the egg nog. Note to self--doubling the amount of rum is not a good idea. No one else will drink it, and I don't like to see it go to waste... I'm not going to be able to go for a post-prandial drive, Diane has hidden all the keys. Merry, merry. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Kas Kastner Sent: Tue 12/25/2007 8:03 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise Okay, so it is not deep snow , but instead brilliant sunshine but Santa still comes this way as his new sled has wheels for certain parts of the country. .......a Merry Christmas to all and remember to pat your TR on this day. As a surprise, I have a small gift for everyone who races: This message when dissolved in 105 octane gasoline is worth 11 horsepower and another 400 rpm in top gear. Do not destroy or attempt to sell as it only applies to the original owner. ( the racing elves keep close accounting) I suggest saving this assistance until a time of real need in 2008. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 25 11:35:09 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 10:35:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <35717.63000.qm@web81106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> AH HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! So, thats why mine printed twice when I sent it to the printer ... patten #4 on the dash & told her I'd get her a new engine before spring ... she just purred ... Bill Babcock wrote: I tried to print it, but my inkjet caught fire and is now serving as a smelly replacement for the yule log. Then I tried to pat Peyote and laid my finger open on a new aluminum panel that I forgot to deburr. I don't think Peyote responds well to patting. Back to the egg nog. Note to self--doubling the amount of rum is not a good idea. No one else will drink it, and I don't like to see it go to waste... I'm not going to be able to go for a post-prandial drive, Diane has hidden all the keys. Merry, merry. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Kas Kastner Sent: Tue 12/25/2007 8:03 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise Okay, so it is not deep snow , but instead brilliant sunshine but Santa still comes this way as his new sled has wheels for certain parts of the country. .......a Merry Christmas to all and remember to pat your TR on this day. As a surprise, I have a small gift for everyone who races: This message when dissolved in 105 octane gasoline is worth 11 horsepower and another 400 rpm in top gear. Do not destroy or attempt to sell as it only applies to the original owner. ( the racing elves keep close accounting) I suggest saving this assistance until a time of real need in 2008. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 25 13:34:53 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:34:53 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise References: <006a01c8470f$bca4d620$3f0ec548@RW> <001401c8471f$ef5c6ff0$6401a8c0@Elliott> Message-ID: Wow, suddenly it started snowing up here on top of the hill. Big fat flakes--looks like we're in a snow globe. I think it's probably raining on the valley floor, but we're getting a blizzard. How perfect is that!?! The in-laws bailed early because our driveway is treacherous with even a dusting of snow. I don't think it's going to stick, but if it does their car would turn into a toboggan. So we're down to grandkids, my daughter and son-in-law. The noise level has decreased dramatically. I'll post some pictures on www.allaluminumtour.com: Nero with a layer of snow--how christmassy. From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Dec 25 15:31:25 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:31:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise -It really works! Message-ID: <5966644C-4733-467E-85E1-9A1FBDF2B609@earthlink.net> WOW! Does this stuff work! Printed the message and just couldn't help myself... Had to try a bit. Put 2 periods and a parenthesis in my snowmobile and went for a ride. What fun!! Seat of the snow pants says the extra power is there on demand. Ran out of guts before I ran out of straightaway to test the top end but I'm a believer. Passed some old codger out on the trail who's sled had apparently broken down - he was wearing the funniest snowmobile suit I've ever seen [all red with ridiculous white fur] and being towed by a bunch of quadrupeds one of which had a red flashing light [New Mexico law says that any vehicle being towed must display at least one flashing light]. Anyway, as I came up behind him, he looked over his right shoulder as I passed him on the left. At that point I was going so fast I don't think he ever saw me!! Great stuff Kas, I'll save the rest and use only when absolutely necessary. All the best to you, yours and all the FoT who make this list what it is. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM P.S. Going out now to give the Plum Pi a pat on the fender. From budscars at msn.com Tue Dec 25 16:12:41 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:12:41 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise -It really works! References: <5966644C-4733-467E-85E1-9A1FBDF2B609@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Woooohooo!..My bet is the Driver of the snowmobile enjoyed some Eggnog beforehand!.. Merry Christmas Great People! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg - Lunker Hilyer" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 2:31 PM Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise -It really works! > WOW! Does this stuff work! Printed the message and just couldn't help > myself... Had to try a bit. Put 2 periods and a parenthesis in my > snowmobile and went for a ride. What fun!! Seat of the snow pants > says the extra power is there on demand. Ran out of guts before I ran > out of straightaway to test the top end but I'm a believer. Passed > some old codger out on the trail who's sled had apparently broken > down - he was wearing the funniest snowmobile suit I've ever seen > [all red with ridiculous white fur] and being towed by a bunch of > quadrupeds one of which had a red flashing light [New Mexico law says > that any vehicle being towed must display at least one flashing light]. > Anyway, as I came up behind him, he looked over his right shoulder as > I passed him on the left. At that point I was going so fast I don't > think he ever saw me!! > Great stuff Kas, I'll save the rest and use only when absolutely > necessary. > All the best to you, yours and all the FoT who make this list what it > is. > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > > P.S. Going out now to give the Plum Pi a pat on the fender. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 17:04:25 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 16:04:25 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8cbd782d0712251604m6a109764w3371772ede7afde7@mail.gmail.com> Bill. thanks for the postand the advice. The advantage of adding rose jounts at the end of the a-arms is that you can adjust them to any length. On the TR6, I tried moving thebgall joint in about 3/8 inch because the DPO had welded the lower arm mount in so I could not shim it in the ususal 6 manner. Even this amount took me from 0 camber to too much [according to the temps]. Now, on bump steer. I thoughtthe theory was to keep the lwer A arm and the tie rod arm parllel. Just adjusted the streert car's sway bar. Did this with the bar completely unloaded, then dropped the front onto my wheel ramps. While adjusting the sway bar, I took the time to observe how the tie rod bolted into the steering arm. It was slanted down hill about 25-30 degrees. Indeed, the arm on the hub that the tie rod joint goes into is slandted down to accomplish this. Any idea of the "Why" of this design and if it makes sense to lessen the amount of drop. Some one of these days I will actually have most of a car ready such that I can play around with the TR6 and bunp steer. Anyone out there have any advice? On Dec 23, 2007 1:24 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 12/23/2007 12:30:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > BillB at bnj.com writes: > > > I've harped on this before, but the bump steer in these cars is horrific. > You > can work to eliminate that and have a car that works so much better you > won't > believe the difference. Once you do that you can soften those springs and > let > the suspension work some. Makes another huge difference. > > > > Amen! > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Tue Dec 25 22:42:22 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:42:22 -0800 Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" Message-ID: <000801c84782$1d3c70c0$0300000a@oemcomputer> I just finished reading the book written by Sam Moses that was mentioned Dec.15'th by Ted. It is great! I had trouble putting it down! If you liked "The Last Open Road" by Burt Levy, you will like this book!. I can not imagine the "Racer" who would not truly enjoy this read. I strongly recommend it. G reg Solow From jerrybarr at charter.net Wed Dec 26 15:16:11 2007 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:16:11 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Item listed on ebay Message-ID: <1792BEDE-C769-4140-B9E3-80A848BB3D80@charter.net> I just listed a new Quaife Torque Biasing Differential that fits the GT6, Spitfire, TR7 4 speed, Lotus 7 and austin Marina. Item # 260197230272 Thanks, Jerry Barr From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Dec 26 15:20:36 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:20:36 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers Message-ID: FoT, I need some input regarding the use of roller rockers on a race prepared TR6. If you are running a cam with .500 lift and 300 degrees duration, does the use of a higher ration roller rocker (1.65) really add that much more power? This is assuming that the head is well ported and you are running the largest intake/exhaust valves that fit in the head. I was just made aware of some engine testing recently that indicated that there was only a 2 h.p. gain by using roller rockers with the above modifications. It also indicated that the increased ratio caused more wear on the cam, tappets, etc. The logic as presented seems to be that you can only draw so much flow through the head before you get diminishing returns. Any thoughts on this? Allen Allen & Jody Washatko 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From BillB at bnj.com Wed Dec 26 15:56:52 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:56:52 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers References: Message-ID: Not that I'm trying to tell you how to suck eggs, but the primary reasons for using roller rockers are to decrease side thrust on the valve stems, reduce friction in the valve train (pin bearing in the rocker and a roller) and reduce reciprocating weight. The only way that translates into higher horsepower is to take advantage of the opportunities these factors enable. A lot of speed equipment is sold to people with no plan to take advantage of the factors the equipment was invented to improve. If your cam won't benefit from a higher rocker ratio then you won't gain anything from it. If you're not prepared to experiment with shorter intake valve guides to improve flow then the reduced side thrust won't give more horsepower, just better guide wear--which none of us care about. You can get a lot of horsepower from roller rockers, but not by bolting them on. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Allen Washatko Sent: Wed 12/26/2007 2:20 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers FoT, I need some input regarding the use of roller rockers on a race prepared TR6. If you are running a cam with .500 lift and 300 degrees duration, does the use of a higher ration roller rocker (1.65) really add that much more power? This is assuming that the head is well ported and you are running the largest intake/exhaust valves that fit in the head. I was just made aware of some engine testing recently that indicated that there was only a 2 h.p. gain by using roller rockers with the above modifications. It also indicated that the increased ratio caused more wear on the cam, tappets, etc. The logic as presented seems to be that you can only draw so much flow through the head before you get diminishing returns. Any thoughts on this? Allen Allen & Jody Washatko 1971 TR6 - Number 6 Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jsnook at wcnet.org Wed Dec 26 16:11:55 2007 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:11:55 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" References: <000801c84782$1d3c70c0$0300000a@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <007601c84814$bbbd99d0$83494c61@JeffsNotebook> OK Ted, I need this book, based upon Greg's recommendation. Loved "Last Open Road" got to try this one. Let me know how to order. Thanks, Jeff Snook www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Solow To: Friends of Triumph Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 12:42 AM Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" I just finished reading the book written by Sam Moses that was mentioned Dec.15'th by Ted. It is great! I had trouble putting it down! If you liked "The Last Open Road" by Burt Levy, you will like this book!. I can not imagine the "Racer" who would not truly enjoy this read. I strongly recommend it. G reg Solow _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Dec 26 17:12:40 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:12:40 EST Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" Message-ID: Got mine today...it is looking like a good read. Thanks Ted. Where do I send money? Joe > OK Ted, I need this book, based upon Greg's recommendation. Loved "Last > Open > Road" got to try this one. Let me know how to order. > > Thanks, > > Jeff Snook > www.snooksdreamcars.com > From Gt6steve at aol.com Wed Dec 26 17:26:44 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:26:44 EST Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" Message-ID: I was wondering the same thing? Did I miss the advert? ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Dec 26 17:41:07 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:41:07 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bill, That being said, the dyno tests involved a fully developed race engine run with stock rockers and again with roller rockers. The difference was 2 h.p. - maybe a 1-2% difference overall. Hardly close to a 10% gain as some promise as a bolt on improvement (I would assume that this figure is for a stock situation). It is clear that the pin bearing and roller will reduce friction but the increased leverage will also add more work at the tappet end. As in everything, there is a limit to improvement. As machines become more refined, the next increment of improvement usually becomes smaller and more difficult to obtain. My point in asking the original question was whether or not roller rockers really added more horsepower due to a longer valve duration assuming that all the other bases were covered - friction aside. I would assume that there is a limit to just how much air/fuel mixture you can suck through a Triumph head as fully developed as it may be. The dyno test would seem to suggest that. Allen On Dec 26, 2007, at 4:56 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Not that I'm trying to tell you how to suck eggs, but the primary > reasons for > using roller rockers are to decrease side thrust on the valve stems, > reduce > friction in the valve train (pin bearing in the rocker and a roller) > and > reduce reciprocating weight. The only way that translates into higher > horsepower is to take advantage of the opportunities these factors > enable. A > lot of speed equipment is sold to people with no plan to take > advantage of the > factors the equipment was invented to improve. If your cam won't > benefit from > a higher rocker ratio then you won't gain anything from it. If you're > not > prepared to experiment with shorter intake valve guides to improve > flow then > the reduced side thrust won't give more horsepower, just better guide > wear--which none of us care about. > > You can get a lot of horsepower from roller rockers, but not by > bolting them > on. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Allen > Washatko > Sent: Wed 12/26/2007 2:20 PM > To: Friends of Triumph > Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers > > FoT, > > I need some input regarding the use of roller rockers on a race > prepared TR6. If you are running a cam with .500 lift and 300 degrees > duration, does the use of a higher ration roller rocker (1.65) really > add that much more power? This is assuming that the head is well ported > and you are running the largest intake/exhaust valves that fit in the > head. I was just made aware of some engine testing recently that > indicated that there was only a 2 h.p. gain by using roller rockers > with the above modifications. It also indicated that the increased > ratio caused more wear on the cam, tappets, etc. The logic as presented > seems to be that you can only draw so much flow through the head > before you get diminishing returns. Any thoughts on this? > > Allen > > > Allen & Jody Washatko > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Dec 26 18:18:26 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:18:26 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers on TR6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200712270118.lBR1IfKl333687@ns3.geneseo.net> Roller rockers are subject to a lot of debate, aren't they? I've not seen actual dyno numbers that are meaningful, but I'd like to. My two cents is based on flow bench readings. What I have seen is that flow increases with valve lift at an expected rate until you get to between .500 and .600 lift. The heads I've done maxed out on flow at between those two numbers, with only 3 to 4 cfm increase in flow when increasing it above .500 lift. It appears that the rest of the intake tract, namely port shape and valve size, reach their limits before valve lift becomes limiting. It's a different story if you compare flow rates of solid vs. roller rockers on a stock cam. In that situation, the max lift on a stock cam is much lower so roller rockers give more of an advantage. From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Dec 26 18:21:19 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:21:19 -0600 Subject: [Fot] further on roller rockers Message-ID: <200712270121.lBR1LX7c365115@ns3.geneseo.net> I talked with one manufacturer of roller rockers at the last PRI show who said that their high speed filming of roller rocker action showed that the roller actually slides across the end of the valve as opposed to rolling, as we would expect. Interesting, huh? uncle jack From budscars at msn.com Wed Dec 26 18:49:13 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:49:13 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD Message-ID: Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on Ebay...Even if you have no intention of buying anything..It's worth looking at for the aesthetic value..I have had it for close to 20 years., and the story behind it is great.I listed it previously, at a higher price.. my Ebay user name is budscarco the dash is item #120182115060 Racer Bud From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Dec 26 19:05:31 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:05:31 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers on TR6 In-Reply-To: <200712270118.lBR1IfKl333687@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200712270118.lBR1IfKl333687@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <85599736ebdaebc7ec44b5bd69d90cd4@wi.rr.com> Jack, Do you know what the cfm flow rate was up to .500 lift? It would be interesting to know the percentage of change. The test I was mentioning found the same to be true - that lift over .500 had a diminishing return on h.p. due to flow. Thanks for your valuable input. Allen On Dec 26, 2007, at 7:18 PM, Jack W. Drews wrote: > Roller rockers are subject to a lot of debate, aren't they? I've not > seen actual dyno numbers that are meaningful, but I'd like to. > > My two cents is based on flow bench readings. > > What I have seen is that flow increases with valve lift at an > expected rate until you get to between .500 and .600 lift. The heads > I've done maxed out on flow at between those two numbers, with only > 3 to 4 cfm increase in flow when increasing it above .500 lift. It > appears that the rest of the intake tract, namely port shape and > valve size, reach their limits before valve lift becomes limiting. > > It's a different story if you compare flow rates of solid vs. roller > rockers on a stock cam. In that situation, the max lift on a stock > cam is much lower so roller rockers give more of an advantage. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From BillB at bnj.com Wed Dec 26 19:22:00 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:22:00 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers on TR6 References: <200712270118.lBR1IfKl333687@ns3.geneseo.net> <85599736ebdaebc7ec44b5bd69d90cd4@wi.rr.com> Message-ID: This got bounced for being over the limit. 4KB indeed. I type with BOTH hands. >>The benefit of reducing rocker friction isn't overall engine efficiency, just as reducing the rocker weight isn't an overall weight reduction issue. Skip that second donut and you'd be way ahead for a lot less money. It's all about making life easier for the tappet, camshaft, and the valve so that you can either make the head flow better or rev the engine higher. So to answer the original question as succinctly as possible, you can do much, much better than 2% with roller rockers if the overall engine has been designed to have roller rockers. If not, then you won't. A high performance racing engine designed for standard rockers probably won't benefit from roller rockers to a large degree. But a good cam designer knowing exactly what's going to be in the engine can shape a more radical profile for a roller rocker than a stock one, accelerating the valve more harshly, and holding it at maximum lift longer. Just as they can if they know you're going to have roller followers (only moreso). The head porting guy that knows you're using a roller rocker with properly and precisely set valve geometry can eliminate the valve guide from the intake port, knowing that the remaining stub is going to be enough. As with any other flowing system, as the valve gets open further, it has less influence on flow. Its why you don't use a gate valve to throttle and why carbs flow about the same from 3/4 to full opening. It's pretty well understood that the value of the higher rocker ratio isn't really ultimate lift, it's acceleration during the early part of the opening cycle. Given that rocker ratio doesn't influence duration of the cam, or the point that it begins to open, it does have an effect on early flow since the valve is accelerating faster. The problem with conversing with me about this is that I'm re-reading the Engine Builder's Handbook, and trying to translate all the great V8 knowledge in that book to puny tractor motors. A frustrating practice that makes it impossible for me to look at any individual part without considering the entire system. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Allen Washatko Sent: Wed 12/26/2007 4:41 PM To: Bill Babcock; Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Roller Rockers Bill, That being said, the dyno tests involved a fully developed race engine run with stock rockers and again with roller rockers. The difference was 2 h.p. - maybe a 1-2% difference overall. Hardly close to a 10% gain as some promise as a bolt on improvement (I would assume that this figure is for a stock situation). It is clear that the pin bearing and roller will reduce friction but the increased leverage will also add more work at the tappet end. As in everything, there is a limit to improvement. As machines become more refined, the next increment of improvement usually becomes smaller and more difficult to obtain. My point in asking the original question was whether or not roller rockers really added more horsepower due to a longer valve duration assuming that all the other bases were covered - friction aside. I would assume that there is a limit to just how much air/fuel mixture you can suck through a Triumph head as fully developed as it may be. The dyno test would seem to suggest that. Allen From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 26 19:42:42 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:42:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Roller rockers Message-ID: While everyone seems obsessed with lift, the real secrets guarded by cam designers is the interaction between duration and lobe center angles. Then you need to figure out how they interact with lift. Look at: http://triumph.hottr6.com/CamBasics.html Shane Ingate, looking for a 4x4 diesel hauler, in NM _________________________________________________________________ im is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real people making a difference. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect From cak at dimebank.com Wed Dec 26 19:50:43 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:50:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers Message-ID: <200712270250.lBR2ohAX015408@moose.dimebank.com> Not to flog a dead horse further, but there are two different things going on here, lumped together as "roller rockers". 1. The interface of the rocker tip to the valve. 2. The rocker ratio. They both have benefits and requirements - but you're only going to see the benefit of #1 on the flow bench (for example). So .. which aspect were you after? From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Dec 26 20:49:43 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:49:43 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers Message-ID: <6079ec4f3d59e1c71dda4e7c4768abca@wi.rr.com> Bill, Got it. I think what both Jack and the test I referred to found, was that head flow was the limiting factor at least for Triumphs. V8's are certainly another story. I'm running a fully ported head with greatly reduced valve guides and profiled 5/16" SS valves. It will be interesting to see what results we get. I'll make a full report next spring. Thanks for the attention. Allen Allen & Jody Washatko 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Wed Dec 26 21:05:20 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:05:20 EST Subject: [Fot] Looking for some things for my new racer Message-ID: I am looking for a couple of 15 x 6 Panasports, a Halon fire system (Prefer entire kit), Kevlar brake pads & shoes, Holley fuel pressure regulator rebuild kit and any spares, front wheel stub axle and spacer kit (Uncle Jack's), magafluxed, nitrided & polished Crankshaft, etc. Thanks, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From Herald948 at aol.com Wed Dec 26 21:17:50 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:17:50 EST Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD Message-ID: In a message dated 12/26/2007 8:49:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, budscars at msn.com writes: Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on Ebay...Even if you have no intention of buying anything..It's worth looking at for the aesthetic value..I have had it for close to 20 years., and the story behind it is great.I listed it previously, at a higher price.. my Ebay user name is budscarco the dash is item #120182115060 MAN, do I wish I had a TR4 right about now...far out! --Andy Mace (still a hippie at heart) *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From triumphs at consolidated.net Wed Dec 26 22:01:34 2007 From: triumphs at consolidated.net (Ken Gano palm top) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:01:34 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would like to buy it, just to donate it to the VTR auction next year :) Kg -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+triumphs=consolidated.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+triumphs=consolidated.net at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 10:18 PM To: budscars at msn.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In a message dated 12/26/2007 8:49:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, budscars at msn.com writes: Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on Ebay...Even if you have no intention of buying anything..It's worth looking at for the aesthetic value..I have had it for close to 20 years., and the story behind it is great.I listed it previously, at a higher price.. my Ebay user name is budscarco the dash is item #120182115060 MAN, do I wish I had a TR4 right about now...far out! --Andy Mace (still a hippie at heart) *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1198 - Release Date: 12/26/2007 5:26 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1198 - Release Date: 12/26/2007 5:26 PM From mark at bradakis.com Wed Dec 26 23:00:19 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:00:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" In-Reply-To: <000801c84782$1d3c70c0$0300000a@oemcomputer> References: <000801c84782$1d3c70c0$0300000a@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <47733F73.2070201@bradakis.com> Got my copy today, haven't started reading it yet. Too much computer stuff to catch up on first! mjb. From dave at microworks.net Thu Dec 27 01:31:43 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 01:31:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Anybody coming to Arizona for the Double National? Message-ID: <20071227083615.KJV18667.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Is anybody on the list(s) coming out to Arizona to run the SCCA Double National or Restricted Regional in January? If it is your first trip to PIR I have a track map with the traditional "line" overlaid on this page: http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=52 Scroll down to find PIR. I also did the other tracks here in Phoenix too if you come out to run these tracks. Click on the Thumbnail to view a LARGE image. From jerrybarr at charter.net Thu Dec 27 07:06:26 2007 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:06:26 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Quaife TBD Message-ID: Hi FOT Folks I received a question from a potential bidder today asking if there were any problems when installing the Quaife unit using a 3.27 GT6 differential. I never tried a 3.27 ring gear, I did try a 3.89 and it worked fine. Anybody have idea? Thanks, Jerry Barr In the North Woods From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Dec 27 08:15:23 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:15:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Dec 2007, RACER BUD wrote: > Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on Ebay...Even if > you have no intention of buying anything..It's worth looking at for the > aesthetic value..I have had it for close to 20 years., and the story behind it > is great.I listed it previously, at a higher price.. my Ebay user name is > budscarco the dash is item #120182115060 > Racer Bud Was the car in a Cheech and Chong movie? Rasta-TR, mon. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lunkercars at earthlink.net Thu Dec 27 09:02:46 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:02:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Perhaps the buyer would be interested in one of my many sets of hallucinogenic gauges. You know... The type that show 84MPH in 1st gear, 157 mpg, a steady 50 psi of oil press [even with engine out of the car] and the perpetual full tank on gas. Greg On Dec 26, 2007, at 6:49 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on > Ebay...Even if > you have no intention of buying anything..It's worth looking at for > the > aesthetic value..I have had it for close to 20 years., and the > story behind it > is great.I listed it previously, at a higher price.. my Ebay user > name is > budscarco the dash is item #120182115060 > Racer Bud > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From herald948 at aol.com Thu Dec 27 09:02:36 2007 From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:02:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA16B908A202CA-8A8-FD6@FWM-M05.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Robert Lang On Wed, 26 Dec 2007, RACER BUD wrote: > Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on Ebay... Was the car in a Cheech and Chong movie? Rasta-TR, mon. ==AM== I've smoked a Triumph dashboard or two over the years, but it usually was due to a bad electrical connection. (rimshot) (runs and hides) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com From dave at microworks.net Thu Dec 27 09:59:55 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:59:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Added braking zones... Message-ID: <20071227170422.DRRE18667.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> It was mentioned that someone would like to see the braking zones on the track maps. Added them... http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=52 From RYoung at navcomtech.com Thu Dec 27 10:40:41 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:40:41 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard > on Ebay... So are the candle & Grateful Dead shirt included ??? fdpnmailgwapp1.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From RYoung at navcomtech.com Thu Dec 27 10:48:01 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:48:01 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Roller rockers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Look at: > http://triumph.hottr6.com/CamBasics.html Shane, I particularly enjoyed this revelation : "A red hot cam will produce less power than the factory cam if intake, exhaust, compression, etc are all modified to accommodate the cam. " Somehow, I think there is a word or two missing somewhere ... or were you just warning of the dangers of an overheated cam shaft ? Randall fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From cak at dimebank.com Thu Dec 27 10:54:57 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:54:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Quaife TBD Message-ID: <200712271754.lBRHsvMA026384@moose.dimebank.com> > I received a question from a potential bidder today asking if there > were any problems when installing the Quaife unit using a 3.27 GT6 > differential. I never tried a 3.27 ring gear, I did try a 3.89 and it > worked fine. Anybody have idea? It won't fit. From hottr6 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 27 14:08:39 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 16:08:39 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Roller rockers Message-ID: Randall, Yeah, I'm full of it. Glad you caught my faux pas. Shane PS Looking at a 2007 GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax 4x4. > Look at: > http://triumph.hottr6.com/CamBasics.html Shane, I particularly enjoyed this revelation : "A red hot cam will produce less power than the factory cam if intake, exhaust, compression, etc are all modified to accommodate the cam. " Somehow, I think there is a word or two missing somewhere ... or were you just warning of the dangers of an overheated cam shaft ? _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ From rikrock at aol.com Thu Dec 27 14:30:05 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 16:30:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications In-Reply-To: References: <000601c84591$aefaddf0$0301000a@Chowdown> <200712241931.lBOJV9b4270273@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <8CA16E6C8429A6F-8A4-12A7@FWM-D13.sysops.aol.com> Bill, Good stuff, thanks!? Would you (or anyone else)?please explain?exactly how to fix the TR3 bumpsteer? Thanks! Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com From chris at tr4-racing.de Thu Dec 27 14:38:42 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:38:42 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Quaife TBD Message-ID: <003701c848d0$da94ee50$c1fefea9@HOME> I would say with a 3.27 ringgear you don't need a LDS because the engine won't be strong enough to spin the wheels. Cheers Chris From roadandtrack at bigpond.com Thu Dec 27 20:32:16 2007 From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:32:16 +1000 Subject: [Fot] crankshaft steel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071228033216.IFFO7061.oaamta04sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01> Can anyone confirm the steel grades used in 2500 cranks. I believe the later ones were EN23. what about early TR5/TR6 ones , the crossed drilled type with plugs in it?? Thanks Terry O'Beirne From BillB at bnj.com Thu Dec 27 20:44:03 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:44:03 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Magazine coming along nicely Message-ID: My new eMagazine is coming along nicely. I've built a lot of pretty handy technology into the back end that enables me to manage both feature stories that will be updated monthly and topical news that gets updated whenever. It has form systems that allow readers to upload photos, articles and video as well as the ability to have "reporters" file complete stories--ready to go after editorial approval (that would be me). I've learned and/or relearned a lot of stuff about programming and building web systems getting this going. Lots of fun. And it's nice to know that even though I turn 61 in about a week that I can still learn new things. Too bad though that I forget them by the next day. Now what was that URL? Ah, yes... www.kenalu.com My brother Bob is doing a pretty cool thing with YouTube--building compilations of excellent videos. Click the play button on the "Bob's Featured Videos" section to see how that works. I'm thinking about launching a similar magazine for vintage racing. Maybe a really technical one. Now that I've got the template built it's pretty easy to do one for anything. From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Dec 27 21:47:03 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:47:03 -0600 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) Message-ID: <4ca5a847b8583ad77f2a47e463790302@wi.rr.com> FoT, Anybody driving west past or near Chicago/Milwaukee from the east coast who could stop near Reading, PA. and pick up some TR6 body panels? There must be at least a half dozen trips like this in the planning! I won't hold my breath but it's always worth asking. Allen Allen & Jody Washatko 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From tedtsimx at bright.net Fri Dec 28 06:13:59 2007 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 08:13:59 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4774F697.20609@bright.net> Allen Washatko wrote: > FoT, > > I need some input regarding the use of roller rockers on a race > prepared TR6. If you are running a cam with .500 lift and 300 degrees > duration, does the use of a higher ration roller rocker (1.65) really > add that much more power? This is assuming that the head is well ported > and you are running the largest intake/exhaust valves that fit in the > head. I was just made aware of some engine testing recently that > indicated that there was only a 2 h.p. gain by using roller rockers > with the above modifications. It also indicated that the increased > ratio caused more wear on the cam, tappets, etc. The logic as presented > seems to be that you can only draw so much flow through the head > before you get diminishing returns. Any thoughts on this? > > Allen > > > Allen & Jody Washatko > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > Allen, Bill B.is correct. The big advantage to roller rockers is reduction of valve stem/valve guide wear. High ratio rockers for your car - 1.65 - greatly increase valve train strain and wear. Even the fastest TR6 in current SCCA Production form is only runing 1.55. We sell a goodly number of roller rockers and do not recomend or sell the 1.65.for your application. Jack Drew's comment about filming roller rocker tips certainly has merit. But, at what enginespeed. The engines in our cars, othe than the small Spit engines, don't see 8500 - 9000 rpm. Ted -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 From walt at hot-tr6.com Fri Dec 28 10:42:20 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:42:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 barn find Message-ID: <20071228174344.10F5B187A81@autox.team.net> just when you think all the interesting cars have been picked over I acquired a 1974 TR6 yesterday. It was parked inside close to where I live for the past 12 years. The floor pans are rusty but the frame appears very solid.I don't look at it as a restoration candidate but more of a source of parts for my TR6 racecar project etc. It has 84,000 miles on it and a straight four speed transmission. Both front fenders and the bonnet are banged up but both doors and the rear clip appear good. The front bumper is missing but the rear is in very good condition. Steel wheels, complete engine that still turns over-carbs, air cleaner box etc. I have a clean New Mexico and all I.D. tags. (wink wink- no emissions test) The original color is red. I have some digital pictures that I can forward if needed. If any FOT members could use anything off of this car please contact me. My direct email is: walt at hot-tr6.com My phone number is 1 505 362-4350 Thank You Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, New Mexico From tedtsimx at bright.net Fri Dec 28 13:16:14 2007 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:16:14 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fast Guy's Rich Guy's & Idiots by Sam Moses Message-ID: <4775598E.6020702@bright.net> FOT members, several people have inquired about this book. Her is a copy of my original posting. Obviously the Christmas gift reference is well past but everything else is correct. Thanks for your time. Ted Greetings FOT list community. Here is a Christmas gift idea that also benefits FOT. A friend of mine, Sam Moses, wrote a book in 1986 called "Fast Guys, Rich Guys and Idiots". A chronicle of Sam's racing season. Sam was the motor sports editor for Sports Illustrated. Later on he became associate editor of AutoWeek. "Fast Guys" was sold out in 9 months and not reprinted. Sam has reprinted his book. The book sells for $21.95. But, Sam personalized a group of books for us. These are selling for $24.95 each. Postage approximately $4.75 by priority mail and should reach you in time for Christmas. $3 from each sale will go to the FOT coffers. Buy early, buy often. The following writeup sums up the book very well. I read the book in 1986 when it first came out and liked what I saw about Sam's competitive attitude. A phone call to Sam and 2 months later, he and I won a 24 hour showroom stock race. The write-up below is from the publisher. Thanks for your time. Ted Sam Moses, a motorsports writer for Sports Illustrated, was assigned to go racing and write about what happened. Fast Guys, Rich Guys, and Idiots is a personal odyssey that peers over the cliff of change and into the pit of obsession. From small-time races to glittery grands prix, it lays bare the greed, lust, and desperation of every driver for time behind the wheel and a faster car. It explains the perfectionism behind taking a turn at the limit and describes the intoxicating thrill of stealing down the Daytona backstraight at nearly two hundred miles an hour. The core of Mose's story takes place in the heartland of stock car racing, there he finds a spot on a team in Ether, North Carolina. The team's owner is a tough Louisiana oil man, its crew chief a lanky, laconic Texan, and its number-one driver a hairy-chested leadfoot who learned fast driving on backwoods Georgia roads, delivering beauty supplies in his Mustang. Crashes echo throughout the tale that follows, five of them the author's own. Sam Moses was a staff writer for Sports Illustrated for seventeen years on the motorsports beat. He worked as deputy editor at AutoWeek and received automotive journalisms prestigious Ken Purdy Award. He is the author of At All Costs: How a Crippled Ship and Two American Merchant Mariners Reversed the Tide of World War II. A candid, often hilarious account of [Mosess] experiences on the tracks, in the garages and in the gasoline alleys of the racing worldbut especially memorable is the wild variety of characters Moses met along the way. The book might have been written twenty years ago, but racing is still populated by fast guys, rich guys, and idiots.Brock Yates, Wall Street Journal -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 From m-syork at comcast.net Fri Dec 28 23:58:39 2007 From: m-syork at comcast.net (Mark York) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:58:39 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: <000001c849e8$3e4dde30$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Amici Is there any advantage to add a breather to the stock valve cover on a TR3 or early TR4 engine? I've read articles that small block V8s "breathe easier, hinting that performance is increased, is this an old wives tale or is there some benefit to be gained? Thank you Mark From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Sat Dec 29 00:26:21 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 23:26:21 -0800 Subject: [Fot] FF Dynamics FFD-LSD conversion kit Message-ID: <000001c849ec$1c79e840$b1191718@computer> Does anyone know anything about the limited slip differential FF Dynamics FFD-LSD conversion kit? I see that they are on Ebay for $165 plus $10 shipping. That seems pretty reasonable if they are any good. Jim in Sacramento Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Sat Dec 29 00:42:18 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 23:42:18 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Wanted - Double or triple carb set up for a TR6 Message-ID: <000401c849ee$56a0c500$b1191718@computer> Does anyone have or know of a used double or triple Weber carb set up for a TR6 that is for sale? Thanks, Jim Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From mark at bradakis.com Sat Dec 29 00:47:23 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:47:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Magazine coming along nicely In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4775FB8B.2000505@bradakis.com> > It has form systems that allow readers to upload photos, articles and video > That reminds me I really need to get busy and get the Team.Net stuff at http://www.team.net/the-local updated and working better. It has all sorts of features like these, but very few folks actually use it. It could be quite a bit more useful and entertaining than just this plain old text based email stuff. And if enough folks visited and actually clicked on the the various Google ad links so that Team.Net made more than the 10 - 20 cents a day it currently brings in, I could stop doing my annual begging drives to cover my out of pocket expenses! Fresh web pages are yet another winter project for the coming year, like getting the TR7 coupe ready for the road, Killer's fresh motor, redoing the roll cage, rebuilding the diff, getting rid of the big van and the old Honda, working on the little truck, the cookbook plans, parts on EBay and so on and on and on. Boy, it will be January soon, I better start getting ready for the Beach Party coming up February 23rd! mjb. From spitlist at cox.net Sat Dec 29 09:21:56 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 09:21:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FF Dynamics FFD-LSD conversion kit In-Reply-To: <000001c849ec$1c79e840$b1191718@computer> References: <000001c849ec$1c79e840$b1191718@computer> Message-ID: <000301c84a36$ee3d18d0$0202a8c0@newcomputer> Jim, L00king at the listings that the company has, it appears that their products are just another variation of the "Phantom Grip" LSD that uses spring force against the sides of the gears in the differential to restrict their movement. I have tried the Phantom grip and can truthfully say that I found very little difference in performance versus the open diff. My recommendation is to save your money and put it toward a real limited slip diff. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jim hearn Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 12:26 AM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] FF Dynamics FFD-LSD conversion kit Does anyone know anything about the limited slip differential FF Dynamics FFD-LSD conversion kit? I see that they are on Ebay for $165 plus $10 shipping. That seems pretty reasonable if they are any good. Jim in Sacramento Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sat Dec 29 10:02:34 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 09:02:34 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <000001c849e8$3e4dde30$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: No idea. I've always had a breather on mine so I couldn't say what the result would be of eliminating it, but I suspect the gasket might leak worse than it already does. The stock TR3s have a breather, in that the oil fill cap isn't sealed. Of course Tech generally won't let you do that with an engine that's to be raced on a track. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Mark York Sent: Fri 12/28/2007 10:58 PM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Amici Is there any advantage to add a breather to the stock valve cover on a TR3 or early TR4 engine? I've read articles that small block V8s "breathe easier, hinting that performance is increased, is this an old wives tale or is there some benefit to be gained? Thank you Mark Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sat Dec 29 10:23:54 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 09:23:54 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <000001c849e8$3e4dde30$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: <006e01c84a3f$968eb8b0$3f0ec548@RW> The oil pan pressure goes into the head and valve cover, and chances are with no way out, will liberate itself by blowing out under the gasket and around the oil filler cap. Even with the 1" minimum breather on the block, you still need the one on the valve cover, not just a little 1/2" hose either. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Mark York" ; Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > No idea. I've always had a breather on mine so I couldn't say what the > result > would be of eliminating it, but I suspect the gasket might leak worse than > it > already does. The stock TR3s have a breather, in that the oil fill cap > isn't > sealed. Of course Tech generally won't let you do that with an engine > that's > to be raced on a track. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Mark York > Sent: Fri 12/28/2007 10:58 PM > To: FOT at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather > > Amici > > Is there any advantage to add a breather to the stock valve cover on a TR3 > or early TR4 engine? I've read articles that small block V8s "breathe > easier, hinting that performance is increased, is this an old wives tale > or > is there some benefit to be gained? > > Thank you > > Mark > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Sat Dec 29 12:08:57 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 12:08:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> What ever happened to the practice of creating a Venturi at the outlet of the exhaust header and feeding the crankcase vent line to it, to draw crankcase gasses out? Used to see that a lot on V-8s @ the drag races Bill From tony at tonydrews.com Sat Dec 29 12:25:40 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:25:40 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. - Tony At 01:08 PM 12/29/2007, William G Rosenbach wrote: >What ever happened to the practice of creating a Venturi at the outlet of >the exhaust header and feeding the crankcase vent line to it, to draw >crankcase gasses out? >Used to see that a lot on V-8s @ the drag races >Bill >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vintage.racer at comcast.net Sat Dec 29 15:39:53 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 14:39:53 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Car Quote Message-ID: <000a01c84a6b$bbd6c5f0$338451d0$@racer@comcast.net> >From the February 2008 issue of Road & Track, Jay Leno, when asked to describe the new 2008 Corvette: ".the greatest value for speed is the motorcycle. You can get an $11,000 Kawasaki ZX14 that goes almost to 200mph. It is governed at 186. It does 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. The next greatest value is the Corvette Z06, at $65,000. To me, I always get annoyed at these people who say, "Oh, I don't like the interior." Well, shut up! Go get a living room set then. What do you want to pay for? Do you want to pay for performance or do you want to pay for faux carbon fiber and all that other nonsense?" That's a car guy after my own heart! Gary From gp89 at charter.net Sat Dec 29 16:45:06 2007 From: gp89 at charter.net (gp89 at charter.net) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 15:45:06 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Car Quote In-Reply-To: <000a01c84a6b$bbd6c5f0$338451d0$@racer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20071229184506.EA6K9.271031.root@fepweb16> The first ZX14's weren't governed:) The salesgirl told me I would get killed if I bought one. The thing was a monster. 60-150 something in a couple of seconds more. The adrenalin rush lasted for hours. I didn't buy it, she was probably right. Jeff Senty ---- Gary Horstkorta wrote: > >From the February 2008 issue of Road & Track, Jay Leno, when asked to > describe the new 2008 Corvette: > > > > ".the greatest value for speed is the motorcycle. You can get an $11,000 > Kawasaki ZX14 that goes almost to 200mph. It is governed at 186. It does > 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. The next greatest value is the Corvette Z06, at > $65,000. To me, I always get annoyed at these people who say, "Oh, I don't > like the interior." Well, shut up! Go get a living room set then. What do > you want to pay for? Do you want to pay for performance or do you want to > pay for faux carbon fiber and all that other nonsense?" That's a car guy > after my own heart! > > > > Gary > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gp89 at charter.net Sat Dec 29 16:49:37 2007 From: gp89 at charter.net (gp89 at charter.net) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 15:49:37 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Car Quote Message-ID: <20071229184937.OWDV4.271150.root@fepweb16> The first ZX14's weren't governed:) The salesgirl told me I would get killed if I bought one. The thing was a monster. 60-150 something in a couple of seconds more. The adrenalin rush lasted for hours. I didn't buy it, she was probably right. Jeff Senty ---- Gary Horstkorta wrote: > >From the February 2008 issue of Road & Track, Jay Leno, when asked to > describe the new 2008 Corvette: > > > > ".the greatest value for speed is the motorcycle. You can get an $11,000 > Kawasaki ZX14 that goes almost to 200mph. It is governed at 186. It does > 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. The next greatest value is the Corvette Z06, at > $65,000. To me, I always get annoyed at these people who say, "Oh, I don't > like the interior." Well, shut up! Go get a living room set then. What do > you want to pay for? Do you want to pay for performance or do you want to > pay for faux carbon fiber and all that other nonsense?" That's a car guy > after my own heart! > > > > Gary > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jhassall at blacksburg.net Sat Dec 29 17:30:01 2007 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:30:01 -0800 Subject: [Fot] wideband fuel-air monitor recommendation? Message-ID: <4776E689.30507@blacksburg.net> I'm in the market for a wideband fuel-air monitor to tune my Webers. I'd appreciate recommendations or brands to avoid. TIA jim -- J.C. Hassall Blacksburg VA '64 TR4 in autox preparation 95% finished, 90% to go From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sat Dec 29 19:38:45 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:38:45 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: <20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> <20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> Message-ID: I did this with my TR4 and have the exhaust system venturi system scavenging positive pressure from the engine crankcase and rocker cover, via the upper portion of the catch can. Works a treat. Peter V TR-4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony Drews Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2007 6:26 AM To: William G Rosenbach Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. - Tony At 01:08 PM 12/29/2007, William G Rosenbach wrote: >What ever happened to the practice of creating a Venturi at the outlet of >the exhaust header and feeding the crankcase vent line to it, to draw >crankcase gasses out? >Used to see that a lot on V-8s @ the drag races >Bill >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From JWoesvra at aol.com Sat Dec 29 19:52:00 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 21:52:00 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/29/2007 2:26:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tony at tonydrews.com writes: Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. This would pass tech at an SVRA event. I think it is a viable device and once used a similar idea in a BMC Fomula jr. However, in that case the car had a faulty rear main seal design (BMC) that always leaked on the clutch. We put a scavenger tube in the bell housing and ran it to the exhaust header. It sucked up whatever came out and burned it up in the exhaust. I see nothing against the our rules if you vent the valve cover this way, unless you start smoking so bad that it is a nuisance. That call is always up to the Chief Steward. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 29 21:06:39 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 23:06:39 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: <388111BF.60380574.00159EE9@cs.com> Thanks, Jack W. This is good to hear as it has always made great sense to me and my TR4. Especially in a TR3/4 engine, with no apparent downside. As a result, I have never used the lip seal conversion...dont need to. Joe A. >In a message dated 12/29/2007 2:26:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >tony at tonydrews.com writes: > >Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. > > >This would pass tech at an SVRA event. I think it is a viable device and >once used a similar idea in a BMC Fomula jr. > >However, in that case the car had a faulty rear main seal design (BMC) that >always leaked on the clutch. We put a scavenger tube in the bell housing and >ran it to the exhaust header. It sucked up whatever came out and burned it up >in the exhaust. > >I see nothing against the our rules if you vent the valve cover this way, >unless you start smoking so bad that it is a nuisance. > >That call is always up to the Chief Steward. > >Jack Woehrle >SVRA Technical Director > > > > >**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes >(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jmwagner at greenheart.com Sat Dec 29 21:19:34 2007 From: jmwagner at greenheart.com (Justin Wagner) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 20:19:34 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47771C56.8040100@greenheart.com> I have to wonder.... interesting topic.... I kept on thinking of ways to put positive pressure in the bell housing.... to assist the rear seal of my TR4A, etc... I even thought about running a tube from the front of the car, to take advantage of the positive pressure there.... and I figured some cool air there wouldn't hurt... Here, you say you put a scavenger tube in the bell housing.... I have to wonder... while I trust it did, indeed, suck up anything that came out.... might it not also have drawn oil through the rear seal? Just thinking aloud here.... --Justin JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/29/2007 2:26:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >tony at tonydrews.com writes: > >Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. > > >This would pass tech at an SVRA event. I think it is a viable device and >once used a similar idea in a BMC Fomula jr. > >However, in that case the car had a faulty rear main seal design (BMC) that >always leaked on the clutch. We put a scavenger tube in the bell housing and >ran it to the exhaust header. It sucked up whatever came out and burned it up >in the exhaust. > >I see nothing against the our rules if you vent the valve cover this way, >unless you start smoking so bad that it is a nuisance. > >That call is always up to the Chief Steward. > >Jack Woehrle >SVRA Technical Director > > > > >**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes >(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From JWoesvra at aol.com Sun Dec 30 06:56:04 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 08:56:04 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/29/2007 11:19:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jmwagner at greenheart.com writes: I have to wonder... while I trust it did, indeed, suck up anything that came out.... might it not also have drawn oil through the rear seal? Just thinking aloud here.... The bell housing wasn't sealed so there was no vacuum to suck oil out. The tube just collected the little bit that ran to the bottom. Jack **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From BillDentin at aol.com Sun Dec 30 08:02:15 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:02:15 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/30/2007 7:58:05 AM Central Standard Time, JWoesvra at aol.com writes: The bell housing wasn't sealed so there was no vacuum to suck oil out. The tube just collected the little bit that ran to the bottom. Jack... You're a fart smeller...I mean...smart feller! Bill (Damdinger) **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From spreiss at verizon.net Sat Dec 29 18:24:14 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 12:24:14 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> <20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Do you mean "...exhaust venturi scavenging positive pressure from engine crankcase, and rocker cover venting via the vent on the catch can?" I always thought the crank case and valve cover vents acted in tandem to allow the engine to breathe in both directions. If a vacuum is applied to both, wouldn't that cause a vapor lock? I also thought that the crank case breather tube was designed to draw out the "vapor" when the vehicle was moving, with increased vacuum at speed. I believe that when a closed system was required by emmission control regulations, the pop-off valve was employed to direct venting to the intake manifold when the vehicle is stationary, and to the carbon canister when the vehicle is in motion. Please correct me if I am wrong. (Was replacement of the carbon canister a part of scheduled maintenance?) Steve P ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Vucinic" To: "'Tony Drews'" ; "'William G Rosenbach'" Cc: Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > I did this with my TR4 and have the exhaust system venturi system scavenging > positive pressure from the engine crankcase and rocker cover, via the upper > portion of the catch can. Works a treat. > > Peter V > TR-4 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Tony Drews > Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2007 6:26 AM > To: William G Rosenbach > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > > Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. > > - Tony > > At 01:08 PM 12/29/2007, William G Rosenbach wrote: > >What ever happened to the practice of creating a Venturi at the outlet of > >the exhaust header and feeding the crankcase vent line to it, to draw > >crankcase gasses out? > >Used to see that a lot on V-8s @ the drag races > >Bill > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Sun Dec 30 10:33:46 2007 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 12:33:46 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <000001c849e8$3e4dde30$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: <025001c84b0a$23eadd90$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Hi all, here's my nickles worth (2 cents won't buy much anymore!). It was a slow day and I was looking through the "08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. A consideration if you do SCCA. Happy New Year Bill Tobin TR6 Vintage Guy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark York" To: Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:58 AM Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather > Amici > > Is there any advantage to add a breather to the stock valve cover on a TR3 > or early TR4 engine? I've read articles that small block V8s "breathe > easier, hinting that performance is increased, is this an old wives tale or > is there some benefit to be gained? > > Thank you > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sun Dec 30 11:27:17 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 05:27:17 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: <002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> <20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> <002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: Steve, Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Exhaust venture scavenging from engine. What you say is true, if the system was a closed circuit. However, the catch can is open to atmosphere. E.g. has a filter fitted to the top of the can. Peter V -----Original Message----- From: Steven Preiss [mailto:spreiss at verizon.net] Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2007 12:24 PM To: Peter Vucinic; 'Tony Drews'; 'William G Rosenbach' Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Do you mean "...exhaust venturi scavenging positive pressure from engine crankcase, and rocker cover venting via the vent on the catch can?" I always thought the crank case and valve cover vents acted in tandem to allow the engine to breathe in both directions. If a vacuum is applied to both, wouldn't that cause a vapor lock? I also thought that the crank case breather tube was designed to draw out the "vapor" when the vehicle was moving, with increased vacuum at speed. I believe that when a closed system was required by emmission control regulations, the pop-off valve was employed to direct venting to the intake manifold when the vehicle is stationary, and to the carbon canister when the vehicle is in motion. Please correct me if I am wrong. (Was replacement of the carbon canister a part of scheduled maintenance?) Steve P ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Vucinic" To: "'Tony Drews'" ; "'William G Rosenbach'" Cc: Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > I did this with my TR4 and have the exhaust system venturi system scavenging > positive pressure from the engine crankcase and rocker cover, via the upper > portion of the catch can. Works a treat. > > Peter V > TR-4 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Tony Drews > Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2007 6:26 AM > To: William G Rosenbach > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > > Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. > > - Tony > > At 01:08 PM 12/29/2007, William G Rosenbach wrote: > >What ever happened to the practice of creating a Venturi at the outlet of > >the exhaust header and feeding the crankcase vent line to it, to draw > >crankcase gasses out? > >Used to see that a lot on V-8s @ the drag races > >Bill > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cak at dimebank.com Sun Dec 30 12:01:37 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 11:01:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: <200712301901.lBUJ1bmd020313@moose.dimebank.com> I thought the problem with this was that some V8s were found to generate so much vacuum via the exhaust venturi that they dumped a large portion of the engine's oil on the track. From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 11:59:04 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:59:04 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com><20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> <002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: Arrggh--another 4k bounce. Mark, you really should up that a little. >> Nope, you won't get "vapor Lock" or any other issue. The only thing keeping me from doing the same thing is some really sharp SCCA and SOVREN tech inspectors here in the Northwest--they don't like the potential for fogging down your competitors with a nice oil mist. The rules say "catch can". First of all, vapor lock is a popular term that describes gasoline getting hot enough in the fuel lines to make the fuel pump cavitate to the point it can't pump or boiling in the float bowl that screws the carb up. Crankcase volume changes all the time as the pistons rise and fall. Nothing like it does on a BMW boxer motorcycle engine, but it changes. Add a check valve (PCV) and you can pull a vacuum on the case. There's also some blowby past the rings and a lot of off-gassing low boiling point liquids in the oil--mostly water. All crankcase and valve cover vents do is release the pressure. The valve cover area is open to the crankcase so it's pressurized too and very susceptible to leaking, therefore its a good idea to vent it. It's a long way from the valve cover to the crank vent so even if you have a good crankcase ventilation you'll have higher pressure in the valve cover--probably. If you get too much pressure, the seals will leak like a sieve, especially scroll seals or felt ones. And our tractor motors have a weak hold on their fluids under the best conditions. Drawing a slight vacuum on the crankcase and valve cover would be a pretty good thing. Now, if you're worried about emissions and a PCV system, then that's a whole different ball of wax. I've never studied emission controls beyond figuring out how to remove them from racing motors. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Steven Preiss Sent: Sat 12/29/2007 5:24 PM To: Peter Vucinic; 'Tony Drews'; 'William G Rosenbach' Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Do you mean "...exhaust venturi scavenging positive pressure from engine crankcase, and rocker cover venting via the vent on the catch can?" I always thought the crank case and valve cover vents acted in tandem to allow the engine to breathe in both directions. If a vacuum is applied to both, wouldn't that cause a vapor lock? I also thought that the crank case breather tube was designed to draw out the "vapor" when the vehicle was moving, with increased vacuum at speed. I believe that when a closed system was required by emmission control regulations, the pop-off valve was employed to direct venting to the intake manifold when the vehicle is stationary, and to the carbon canister when the vehicle is in motion. Please correct me if I am wrong. (Was replacement of the carbon canister a part of scheduled maintenance?) From vanlake at bellsouth.net Sun Dec 30 12:11:18 2007 From: vanlake at bellsouth.net (vanlake at bellsouth.net) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 19:11:18 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR 6 RELEASE BEARINGS Message-ID: <123020071911.14223.4777ED560003D6570000378F22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> FoT Does anyone have experience using the Gunst Throw-out bearing system? Just wondering how well it will withstand continuous high RPM spinning, since it is always in contact with the clutch fingers. The makers must be proud of it due to the fact it is three times the cost of a "standard" release bearing. Much appreciated, Mark Oldspeed 72 " Money can't buy you happiness, but it can take you to places where you can find it for yourself" Lou Holtz after signing his first contract at Notre Dame. From walt at hot-tr6.com Sun Dec 30 13:52:04 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:52:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR 6 RELEASE BEARINGS In-Reply-To: <123020071911.14223.4777ED560003D6570000378F22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> Message-ID: <20071230205327.ED008187AAF@autox.team.net> Another issue for consideration is thrust washer wear as well as wear on the release fingers on the clutch pressure plate. But back to the thrust washer, constant pressure, even slight, increases heat, friction and wear. Once the rear most thrust washer wears too much then the inside thrust washer slips out of place and is found laying in the bottom of the oil pan that you took off to figure out why you have a connecting rod sticking out of the side of your engine block. This is why I had Ron Meek developed for me a 360 degree thrust washer as described on page 144 of Kas Kastner's book Historical & Technical Guide for Triumph Cars Walt Hollowell Abq., NM -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+walt=hot-tr6.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+walt=hot-tr6.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of vanlake at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 12:11 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR 6 RELEASE BEARINGS FoT Does anyone have experience using the Gunst Throw-out bearing system? Just wondering how well it will withstand continuous high RPM spinning, since it is always in contact with the clutch fingers. The makers must be proud of it due to the fact it is three times the cost of a "standard" release bearing. Much appreciated, Mark Oldspeed 72 " Money can't buy you happiness, but it can take you to places where you can find it for yourself" Lou Holtz after signing his first contract at Notre Dame. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Sun Dec 30 14:05:59 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:05:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: <20071230.140600.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R From m-syork at comcast.net Sun Dec 30 14:42:09 2007 From: m-syork at comcast.net (Mark York) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:42:09 -0800 Subject: [Fot] More valve cover breather Message-ID: <000301c84b2c$d5534eb0$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Okay I'll remove the battery from the TR3 and get one of those tiny AMG batteries and mount it on the passenger side floor. In the battery well I'll mount a catch can. I'll drill a hole in my nice shiny chrome valve cover and weld in a straight or 90 degree hose barb fitting, where should I locate it to be most effective (top or side, front or back of the valve cover)? Regards Mark From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 15:15:41 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:15:41 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <20071230.140600.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: Much more likely to suck too hard at high RPM that not do enough. It's hard to set up a venturi system that's anything like linear. At Idle it could be pressurizing the crank and at full RPM sucking the oil out. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of William G Rosenbach Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 1:05 PM To: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 15:20:10 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:20:10 -0800 Subject: [Fot] More valve cover breather References: <000301c84b2c$d5534eb0$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: Before you do any of those thing you should probably talk to Tony Garmey. He could do it an make it look like the factory made it that way. I could save myself a lot of grief by simply living closer to that guy. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Mark York Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 1:42 PM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] More valve cover breather Okay I'll remove the battery from the TR3 and get one of those tiny AMG batteries and mount it on the passenger side floor. In the battery well I'll mount a catch can. I'll drill a hole in my nice shiny chrome valve cover and weld in a straight or 90 degree hose barb fitting, where should I locate it to be most effective (top or side, front or back of the valve cover)? Regards Mark Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jwags at dotnet.com Sun Dec 30 19:53:56 2007 From: jwags at dotnet.com (jwags at dotnet.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:53:56 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: Message-ID: <477859C4.000003.02260@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> The hot set up for drag racers was to use an air pump check valve from a GM car And a 6 inch length of pipe cut at 45 degrees with a small whistle cut that Stuck inside the header.It worked very well When I got into this left right stuff it was one of the first things I did to the Little TR, it worked too well. We would suck out more than a quart of oil in one session. Drag cars are running hard for seconds while road racers run much longer times. I think that has a lot to do with it. Don't waste your time. Just the wrench. . eFrom: Bill Babcock Date: 12/30/2007 4:14:28 PM To: William G Rosenbach; william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Much more likely to suck too hard at high RPM that not do enough. It's hard to set up a venturi system that's anything like linear. At Idle it could be Pressurizing the crank and at full RPM sucking the oil out. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of William G Rosenbach Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 1:05 PM To: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 18c_blue.gif] From kenandtweety at yahoo.com Sun Dec 30 20:11:01 2007 From: kenandtweety at yahoo.com (Ken Suhre) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 19:11:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Valvecover venting Message-ID: <279341.76750.qm@web33109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Being a Chrysler Corp. technician for some 38 years, I have a pretty good understanding of emission systems on automobiles. The positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve is what controls the flow of engine crancase vapors to the intake manifold. It has an orifaced check valve that only allows flow when vacum is applied as the engine is running. Air is drawn into the engine through a filtered inlet in the aircleaner system, usually through a hose to the opposite valve cover of a vee type engine. The charcoal canister is there only to recover fuel vapors from the tank and carburator if it has one. When the engine is running above an idle these vapors are purged from the charcoal by the intake manifold vacum. Usually through an orifaced port to control the amount of flow. Probably boring information to most vintage racers. But I just had to try to clear up the confusion. Ken Suhre ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 30 20:17:03 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 22:17:03 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: I must live a charmed life. Mine has been flawless. > The hot set up for drag racers was to use an air pump check valve from a GM > car > And a 6 inch length of pipe cut at 45 degrees with a small whistle cut that > Stuck inside the header.It worked very well > When I got into this left right stuff it was one of the first things I did > to the > Little TR, it worked too well. We would suck out more than a quart of oil in > one > session. > Drag cars are running hard for seconds while road racers run much longer > times. > I think that has a lot to do with it. Don't waste your time. > From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sun Dec 30 20:32:03 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:32:03 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: References: <20071230.140600.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: Bill, To avoid ANY back pressures you should fit a one way / check valve at the exhaust venture. These type of check valves are available on some emission vehicles. Problem solved. That what I have on my TR4. Peter V TR-4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Monday, 31 December 2007 9:16 AM To: William G Rosenbach; william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Much more likely to suck too hard at high RPM that not do enough. It's hard to set up a venturi system that's anything like linear. At Idle it could be pressurizing the crank and at full RPM sucking the oil out. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of William G Rosenbach Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 1:05 PM To: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sun Dec 30 20:35:58 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:35:58 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: <20071230.140600.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> References: <20071230.140600.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: The Venturi system I have generates about 1.5PSI of negative at best. If you are looking for more than this, you should consider using a smog pump or similar. The venture is a 'cost you nothing' in horse power terms to run. I don't see a down side to using something you already have available to you. However, it has its limitation like any system. Peter V TR-4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of William G Rosenbach Sent: Monday, 31 December 2007 8:06 AM To: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sun Dec 30 20:39:58 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:39:58 +1100 Subject: [Fot] [FOT] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: <477859C4.000003.02260@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> References: <477859C4.000003.02260@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> Message-ID: That is why you NED to feed ALL of your lines into a catch can that has baffles in it to separate the oil and let it accumulate in the bottom of the catch can. You then are sucking mostly vapor, while reducing crank system/engine pressures to some degree. It make NO logical sense to connect the Venturi directly to your engine block or rocker cover! All you will be doing is pumping oil out the back as you describe. Peter V TR-4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jwags at dotnet.com Sent: Monday, 31 December 2007 1:54 PM To: William G Rosenbach; william.tobin3 at verizon.net; Bill Babcock Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather The hot set up for drag racers was to use an air pump check valve from a GM car And a 6 inch length of pipe cut at 45 degrees with a small whistle cut that Stuck inside the header.It worked very well When I got into this left right stuff it was one of the first things I did to the Little TR, it worked too well. We would suck out more than a quart of oil in one session. Drag cars are running hard for seconds while road racers run much longer times. I think that has a lot to do with it. Don't waste your time. Just the wrench. . eFrom: Bill Babcock Date: 12/30/2007 4:14:28 PM To: William G Rosenbach; william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Much more likely to suck too hard at high RPM that not do enough. It's hard to set up a venturi system that's anything like linear. At Idle it could be Pressurizing the crank and at full RPM sucking the oil out. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of William G Rosenbach Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 1:05 PM To: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 18c_blue.gif] Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Sun Dec 30 20:43:04 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:43:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com><20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> <002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: <47786548.4020401@bradakis.com> > Arrggh--another 4k bounce. Mark, you really should up that a little. The vast majority of replies that bounce due to size limits are because people include a bunch of crap in their replies that just doesn't need to be there. And quite aware of the irony, here's a previous exchange on this subject. mjb. ---- -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fot] List message sizes Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:38:14 -0700 From: Bill Babcock To: Mark J. Bradakis CC: fot at autox.team.net Okay, makes sense, I'll do that. I had assumed it was a storage issue, and since storage is essentially free these days, or at least it's cheaper than I ever could have imagined, I thought the concern might be a little obsolete. Never thought about the archive and search issues. Of course I imagine a pretty simple program that would clean that all up as it sticks data in the archive, but I'm not volunteering to write anything. I don't imagine anyone would be thrilled with software written in Foxpro, which is the only language I remember, other than some vague recollections of Pascal, C, and AWK. On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:45 PM, Mark J. Bradakis wrote: > Finally getting around to answering an old question. Sorry for the > delay. > > Bill Babcock wrote: > >> First one bounced--too big. Hey Mark, isn't 4K a bit too restrictive? >> >> > Well, yes and no, sort of. It is an arbitrary limit I just > picked. On > some of the > other big lists, though, it is only 3K. Basically the problem lies in > the default > behavior of many popular email clients in use today. When people > respond > to a message, the *entire* message is added to the end of the > response. > Unlike > this message, which has only one pertinent line included, at the > beginning, where > it is clear to see the issue under discussion. > > So what happens is that as people continue discussion on a topic, the > messages > keep getting longer and longer and longer and longer. There may be > only two > or three lines still pertinent to the discussion or necessary for > context, but all > the useless verbiage keeps getting dragged along for the ride. > > Last time I actually ran some statistical programs on the Team.Net > lists, > about 70 - 80 percent of the character count of list messages was > text > that was included for no real reason at all. That's about the same as > buying > a 6 pack of your favorite beverage, and getting one or two that are > the > actual fresh, new beverage, the rest are, uh, recycled product. > > All this extra, useless text does is slow down the Team.Net network > line, > transmitting bits that it doesn't need to transmit. It slows down > the list > archiving processes, as they have to go over the same text again > and again. > Gee, nothing like getting 50 hits on your search only to find that > 48 of > them > are the same old paragraph added again and again and again to peoples > replies. The added replies slow down the mail processing, adding to > the delays in getting the messages out to the list. > > If the preceding paragraph is too much computer jargon for you to get > your mind around, then think of it this way - how would your race > car start > behaving if every time you crossed the start/finish line you had to > stop and > take on another 50 pounds of ballast? > > And of course, there is the time I have to spend cleaning up bouncing > addresses because all the clueless replies filled up the mailboxes of > hapless subscribers who've hit their limit. > > I know that I'm never going to be able to singlehandedly change human > behavior, but it sure would be nice if a few more folks spent an extra > few seconds on their list messages. Set your mailer to NOT include > the > original in your reply, just paste in the appropriate line or two > as I did > above. Or at least delete the text that serves no purpose in your > response, > rather than just absentmindedly trying to stuff it down the > Team.Net pipe > for no useful reason. > > If you do have a lot to say and your all-original message does hit up > against the size limit, I do try to stay somewhat current with admin > requests, and I'll approve such messages and get them on their way > as I have time. > > Gee, this message is getting kind of long. Wonder how many folks will > respond, and include it in its entirety in their response? For > now, I'll > just send it off and then spend some more time wading through the > 7,664 unread messages cuurently in my Team.Net admin mailbox. > > mjb. From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 30 21:02:06 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 23:02:06 EST Subject: [Fot] CRANKCASE EVACUATION SYSTEM Message-ID: GM has a typical check valve for $10-15 if you make your own. This system will: "...provide better piston ring seal, less intake charge contamination, and reduced oil leaks caused by high crankcase pressure." This is from a circle track catalog. A little marketing hype built in here, I sense. Moroso, Mr. Gasket, and Renegade provide these kits to the circle track guys. There are pieces uneeded for Triumphs and no hi temp poly tubing, which may be the most expensive item. I have no understanding of why they are not permitted in the SCCA GCRs. Likely for good reason in certain applications...V-8s? But for TR3/TR4 engines, it seems like an appropriate modification. I was putting a lot of oil into the frame rails and then would dump it ON the exhaust pipe at Turn Five at Road America. Not a very pretty cloud of oil smoke and of some concern to the corner workers. After going home, I would let the TR4 drip for a couple of weeks, then wipe it down. This system changed all of that. Joe A > Bill, > > To avoid ANY back pressures you should fit a one way / check valve at the > exhaust venture. These type of check valves are available on some emission > vehicles. Problem solved. That what I have on my TR4. > > Peter V > TR-4 > From DSPGTi at aol.com Sun Dec 30 21:20:09 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 23:20:09 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case venting connecting to the exhaust system. After all we are talking about oil being injected in the stream after combustion. It has been prohibited by SCCA as long as I can remember, however there appears to be no mention in the 1972 GCR rules under the "oil catch tanks" section. The second oldest GCR that I have on hand (2003 17.26) states the exact wording as the 2008 GCR: "A crankcase vacuum breather that passes through the oil catch tank(s) to exhaust systems or vacuum devices that connect directly to exhaust systems is prohibited." I have yet to run my TR4 hard enough or long enough but my VW Rabbit can put a half a quart in the catch tank on a hot day during a 20 minute session. On a 3 hour enduro we have to add a quart at a pit stop on a Scirocco and finish almost a quart low. Both engines are very strong with minimal leak down.You wouldn't want to be following me with that going out my tail pipe. Dave Y. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From jaboruch at netzero.net Sun Dec 30 21:39:32 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 04:39:32 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner Message-ID: <20071230.233932.5196.2@webmail18.dca.untd.com> Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken timing chain tensioner. This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all with this same block). Some have broken in a season or less, while this one was used last season and then failed sometime this season. These have been from the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was from who. Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I am doing wrong that is causing the failures? They are not wearing thru, but rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot. Any better designed tensioners out there for the tractor motors? Joe(B) _____________________________________________________________ Are you overpaying for motorcycle insurance? Get a quote today. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmN0Fya3y18EGne27K9QLpQ2 rxCQei95XilDIzITY2om3OIa/ From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 21:40:38 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:40:38 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valvecover venting References: <279341.76750.qm@web33109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What he said... -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Ken Suhre Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 7:11 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Valvecover venting Being a Chrysler Corp. technician for some 38 years, I have a pretty good understanding of emission systems on automobiles. The positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve is what controls the flow of engine crancase vapors to the intake manifold. It has an orifaced check valve that only allows flow when vacum is applied as the engine is running. Air is drawn into the engine through a filtered inlet in the aircleaner system, usually through a hose to the opposite valve cover of a vee type engine. The charcoal canister is there only to recover fuel vapors from the tank and carburator if it has one. When the engine is running above an idle these vapors are purged from the charcoal by the intake manifold vacum. Usually through an orifaced port to control the amount of flow. Probably boring information to most vintage racers. But I just had to try to clear up the confusion. Ken Suhre _______________________________________________________________________ _____________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 21:45:56 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:45:56 -0800 Subject: [Fot] CRANKCASE EVACUATION SYSTEM References: Message-ID: I might have to give it a try. Of course that means Peyote is going to rust. -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com [mailto:N197TR4 at cs.com] Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 8:02 PM To: pvucinic at netspace.net.au; Bill Babcock; wgrosenbach at juno.com; william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: CRANKCASE EVACUATION SYSTEM GM has a typical check valve for $10-15 if you make your own. This system will: "...provide better piston ring seal, less intake charge contamination, and reduced oil leaks caused by high crankcase pressure." This is from a circle track catalog. A little marketing hype built in here, I sense. Moroso, Mr. Gasket, and Renegade provide these kits to the circle track guys. There are pieces uneeded for Triumphs and no hi temp poly tubing, which may be the most expensive item. I have no understanding of why they are not permitted in the SCCA GCRs. Likely for good reason in certain applications...V-8s? But for TR3/TR4 engines, it seems like an appropriate modification. I was putting a lot of oil into the frame rails and then would dump it ON the exhaust pipe at Turn Five at Road America. Not a very pretty cloud of oil smoke and of some concern to the corner workers. After going home, I would let the TR4 drip for a couple of weeks, then wipe it down. This system changed all of that. Joe A > Bill, > > To avoid ANY back pressures you should fit a one way / check valve at the > exhaust venture. These type of check valves are available on some emission > vehicles. Problem solved. That what I have on my TR4. > > Peter V > TR-4 > From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 21:58:07 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:58:07 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: Message-ID: Actually, I know this can be managed better, though what I know works best with a dry sump. It's pretty easy to build a swirl can that will return the oil to the crankcase. On my Radical I would put about a quart of oil in the catch tank every 30 minute race. Obviously a problem for endurance races. I made a swirl can with a helical separator structure inside--the oil/air vapor from the breather went in at an angle in the bottom side (promoting swirl) and exhausted through the top of the can. The oil that collected on the can sides and the separator fell to the bottom and returned to the sump. If this went to a catch can with a fairly restrictive filter on top that had a line going to the divergent side of the header collector it would draw a slight vacuum on the system and might reduce my general engine spewing. Might be worth fiddling with. Not purely legal, but if an organization's tech guys didn't like it I could just blank off the hose. -----Original Message----- From: DSPGTi at aol.com [mailto:DSPGTi at aol.com] Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 8:20 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com; jwags at dotnet.com; wgrosenbach at juno.com; william.tobin3 at verizon.net; Bill Babcock Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case venting connecting to the exhaust system. After all we are talking about oil being injected in the stream after combustion. It has been prohibited by SCCA as long as I can remember, however there appears to be no mention in the 1972 GCR rules under the "oil catch tanks" section. The second oldest GCR that I have on hand (2003 17.26) states the exact wording as the 2008 GCR: "A crankcase vacuum breather that passes through the oil catch tank(s) to exhaust systems or vacuum devices that connect directly to exhaust systems is prohibited." I have yet to run my TR4 hard enough or long enough but my VW Rabbit can put a half a quart in the catch tank on a hot day during a 20 minute session. On a 3 hour enduro we have to add a quart at a pit stop on a Scirocco and finish almost a quart low. Both engines are very strong with minimal leak down.You wouldn't want to be following me with that going out my tail pipe. Dave Y. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 21:58:34 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:58:34 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner References: <20071230.233932.5196.2@webmail18.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: I make my own with a delrin block faced with neoprene and a coil spring. Looks like it came out a motorcycle--surprise, surprise. The little flat springs suck bilgewater. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Joe Boruch Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 8:39 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken timing chain tensioner. This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all with this same block). Some have broken in a season or less, while this one was used last season and then failed sometime this season. These have been from the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was from who. Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I am doing wrong that is causing the failures? They are not wearing thru, but rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot. Any better designed tensioners out there for the tractor motors? Joe(B) _____________________________________________________________ Are you overpaying for motorcycle insurance? Get a quote today. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmN0Fya3y18EGne27K9QLpQ2 rxCQei95XilDIzITY2om3OIa/ Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 22:01:36 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 21:01:36 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com><20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net><002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> <47786548.4020401@bradakis.com> Message-ID: too funny--my "mea culpa" bounce email got bounced. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 8:42 PM To: Mark J. Bradakis; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Valve cover breather Oh yeah, now I remember. You'll just have to remind me every now and then that it's a good idea. I think I have a complete turnover of my entire inventory of memory every six months. You might want to just just save the message and send it to me semi-annually. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Mark J. Bradakis Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 7:43 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > Arrggh--another 4k bounce. Mark, you really should up that a little. The vast majority of replies that bounce due to size limits are because people include a bunch of crap in their replies that just doesn't need to be there. And quite aware of the irony, here's a previous exchange on this subject. mjb. ---- From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 30 22:11:55 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 00:11:55 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: For a TR4, it might be the lesser of two evils.... I really see no evidence of oil in my exhaust pipe, believing it likely burns off before getting to the end of the pipe. I have no scientific or empirical proof of anything........... Joe A > I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case > venting connecting to the exhaust system. After all we are talking about oil > being injected in the stream after combustion. It has been prohibited by SCCA as > long as I can remember, however there appears to be no mention in the 1972 > GCR rules under the "oil catch tanks" section. The second oldest GCR that I > have on hand (2003 17.26) states the exact wording as the 2008 GCR: "A crankcase > vacuum breather that passes through the oil catch tank(s) to exhaust systems > or vacuum devices that connect directly to exhaust systems is prohibited." > > I have yet to run my TR4 hard enough or long enough but my VW Rabbit can put > a half a quart in the catch tank on a hot day during a 20 minute session. On > a 3 hour enduro we have to add a quart at a pit stop on a Scirocco and > finish almost a quart low. Both engines are very strong with minimal leak down.You > wouldn't want to be following me with that going out my tail pipe. > > Dave Y. > From JWoesvra at aol.com Mon Dec 31 06:49:10 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:49:10 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/30/2007 11:20:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DSPGTi at aol.com writes: I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case venting connecting to the exhaust system. After all we are talking about oil being injected in the stream after combustion. It has been prohibited by SCCA as long as I can remember, however there appears to be no mention in the 1972 GCR rules under the "oil catch tanks" section. The second oldest GCR that I have on hand (2003 17.26) states the exact wording as the 2008 GCR: "A crankcase vacuum breather that passes through the oil catch tank(s) to exhaust systems or vacuum devices that connect directly to exhaust systems is prohibited." This whole issue has nothing to do with what SCCA does or doesn't allow unless you intend to race with them. >From my point of view as a Vintage Guy running Vintage Races, my main concern is providing as much quality track time to as many drivers, safely, as possible. This means starting at 8am and going steady until 6pm at most events for three days. It also means coming up with as many was as possible to prevent some GERBIL from dumping slippery STUFF on the track. Then we spend the whole next session dragging in the BOZOS that wreck in the STUFF, not to mention actually trying to clean up the STUFF. This is why we have permitted roller rockers, accusumps, even dry sumps in certain classes. It also is primarily why we allow steel cranks and Carrillo rods. All these things help your reliability and if you are wise you will use them and still keep your RPM at a sane level. I can't control that but I know we have gained a considerable amount of lost track time back since we started this concept. If a suction crankcase vent keeps oil off the track, I am for it. BTW, we have made "leakers" race worthy and gotten them through the weekend by just zip-tying baby diapers under the offending leak and changing them between sessions. Wouldn't that freak out an SCCA tech guy? Ya gotta be creative and open minded in this business. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Dec 31 07:00:23 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:00:23 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather / filling catch can In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071231140128.F2249187A6C@autox.team.net> We've had differing amounts of oil go to the catch can based on can placement. Venting out the big pipe on the LH side of the engine to a catch can located in the LH side of the engine compartment is a BAD idea, it turns out. RH corners fill the can. My catch can is on the RH edge of the battery tray, so the big vent line goes up and over the engine, and the valve cover breather comes from the top of the oil fill hole. I put a very light film of oil in it. I go a season or more without draining it. I do leave a nice little oil slick under the car when it's parked, though. For my (Ford) diff, I had problems filling its catch can that I finally solved by having the vent link feed upwards into the bottom of the can. The oil drains back into the diff that way. - Tony At 10:20 PM 12/30/2007, DSPGTi at aol.com wrote: >I have yet to run my TR4 hard enough or long enough but my VW Rabbit can put >a half a quart in the catch tank on a hot day during a 20 minute >session. On a >3 hour enduro we have to add a quart at a pit stop on a Scirocco and finish >almost a quart low. Both engines are very strong with minimal leak down.You >wouldn't want to be following me with that going out my tail pipe. From DSPGTi at aol.com Mon Dec 31 08:44:35 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:44:35 EST Subject: [Fot] wideband fuel-air monitor recommendation? Message-ID: We have used the Innovate LM1( _http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php_ (http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php) ) with great results. Can be calibrated for different fuels including methanol, has data logging and has additional inputs for other sensors. Good Luck **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From tarch at bellsouth.net Mon Dec 31 08:48:07 2007 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:48:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301c84bc4$8b731f30$6501a8c0@richardiipc> Joe A wrote about his personal opinion: ".......I have no scientific or empirical proof of anything..........." And now we have Iowa with the destiny of the entire United States and probably the whole world in its hands this week. All I can say is, Joe, Jack, Tony and the rest of you "I was born on a farm out in Ioway..." singing good-ole-boys, just don't make no mistakes in the caucuses. And you surely know that on Wednesday you represent the entire unified political thinking of the Friends of Triumph. So you know your job. Now just do it! You screw up and we'll see you at the track! Richard From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Dec 31 09:10:55 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:10:55 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/31/2007 9:48:25 AM Central Standard Time, tarch at bellsouth.net writes: > ".......I have no scientific or empirical proof of anything..........." > > > And now we have Iowa with the destiny of the entire United States and > probably the whole world in its hands this week. All I can say is, Joe, > Jack, Tony and the rest of you "I was born on a farm out in Ioway..." > singing good-ole-boys, just don't make no mistakes in the caucuses. And you > surely know that on Wednesday you represent the entire unified political > thinking of the Friends of Triumph. So you know your job. Now just do it! > > You screw up and we'll see you at the track! > Actually Jack and Tony are both across the boarder in IlliNOISE. But ah yes,...for sure Bill Bryson would call Joe Alexander a "THUNDERBOLT KID" through and through. First thing every morning, he checks the corn and hog prices. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From S.Janzen at comcast.net Mon Dec 31 09:42:48 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:42:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <000301c84bc4$8b731f30$6501a8c0@richardiipc> Message-ID: <000401c84bcc$2dc891f0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> wait a minute. We have unified political thinking? I bet we shouldn't even go there. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Taylor" To: ; ; ; ; ; Cc: Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > Joe A wrote about his personal opinion: > > ".......I have no scientific or empirical proof of anything..........." > > > And now we have Iowa with the destiny of the entire United States and > probably the whole world in its hands this week. All I can say is, Joe, > Jack, Tony and the rest of you "I was born on a farm out in Ioway..." > singing good-ole-boys, just don't make no mistakes in the caucuses. And > you > surely know that on Wednesday you represent the entire unified political > thinking of the Friends of Triumph. So you know your job. Now just do it! > > You screw up and we'll see you at the track! > > Richard > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 31 10:15:16 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:15:16 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: That's correct....we are a list of FREE SPIRITS. Or perhaps a list of Free Flowing Spirits. "TIME GOES BY QUICKLY WHEN YOU ARE ALIVE......" An Alexanderism > wait a minute. We have unified political thinking? I bet we shouldn't > even go there. > From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 31 10:48:36 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:48:36 EST Subject: [Fot] IOWA Message-ID: "First thing every morning, he checks the corn and hog prices.", says the Mighty Damdinger, about JA. _____________________________________________________ not likely... I was skiing in Colorado once when a cattleman asked me about Limousin Cattle in Iowa. I told him I didnt know anything about them....he became agitated, as he thought it was impossible to be from Iowa and not know about the Limousin Breed. Never mind that my father was farmer and farm implement dealer. And that I was in the ag business most of my life. If those Limousin Cattle had wheels, I might know more about them. I plowed corn, tossed hay bails, cut farm equipment into scrap, steam cleaned tractors....I discovered that Agri-business was another way of spelling Hard Work. Strange that I eventually migrated to a tractor based engine, in my hobby...or perhaps not. Happy New Year!~ > Actually Jack and Tony are both across the boarder in IlliNOISE. > > But ah yes,...for sure Bill Bryson would call Joe Alexander a "THUNDERBOLT > KID" through and through. First thing every morning, he checks the corn and > hog prices. > > Bill (Damdinger) > > From Herald948 at aol.com Mon Dec 31 11:30:31 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:30:31 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/31/2007 12:15:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, N197TR4 at cs.com writes: That's correct....we are a list of FREE SPIRITS. Or perhaps a list of Free Flowing Spirits. ==AM== And personally I think that Free Flowing Spirits are probably the best (if not only) way to deal with politics. Pour me a tall one now, please.... :-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 31 12:26:49 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:26:49 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: Message-ID: Amen to all of that. I hate spinning in oil. In fact my big concern listening to how some of the guys are thinking about doing this is that it would turn their cars into oiling machines, doing a fine job of depositing an even coat of oil on the entire track. I vividly remember a corvair-powered Devin that did a spectacular job of that at Portland. The entire track got gradually slipperier until a whole bunch of us spun simultaneously. I had decided something was wrong with my car and was headed for the pit road when I spun at sub-racing speed. -----Original Message----- From: JWoesvra at aol.com [mailto:JWoesvra at aol.com] Sent: Mon 12/31/2007 5:49 AM To: DSPGTi at aol.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; jwags at dotnet.com; wgrosenbach at juno.com; william.tobin3 at verizon.net; Bill Babcock Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather In a message dated 12/30/2007 11:20:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DSPGTi at aol.com writes: I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case venting connecting to the exhaust system. After all we are talking about oil being injected in the stream after combustion. It has been prohibited by SCCA as long as I can remember, however there appears to be no mention in the 1972 GCR rules under the "oil catch tanks" section. The second oldest GCR that I have on hand (2003 17.26) states the exact wording as the 2008 GCR: "A crankcase vacuum breather that passes through the oil catch tank(s) to exhaust systems or vacuum devices that connect directly to exhaust systems is prohibited." This whole issue has nothing to do with what SCCA does or doesn't allow unless you intend to race with them. >From my point of view as a Vintage Guy running Vintage Races, my main concern is providing as much quality track time to as many drivers, safely, as possible. This means starting at 8am and going steady until 6pm at most events for three days. It also means coming up with as many was as possible to prevent some GERBIL from dumping slippery STUFF on the track. Then we spend the whole next session dragging in the BOZOS that wreck in the STUFF, not to mention actually trying to clean up the STUFF. This is why we have permitted roller rockers, accusumps, even dry sumps in certain classes. It also is primarily why we allow steel cranks and Carrillo rods. All these things help your reliability and if you are wise you will use them and still keep your RPM at a sane level. I can't control that but I know we have gained a considerable amount of lost track time back since we started this concept. If a suction crankcase vent keeps oil off the track, I am for it. BTW, we have made "leakers" race worthy and gotten them through the weekend by just zip-tying baby diapers under the offending leak and changing them between sessions. Wouldn't that freak out an SCCA tech guy? Ya gotta be creative and open minded in this business. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 31 12:29:20 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:29:20 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <000301c84bc4$8b731f30$6501a8c0@richardiipc> <000401c84bcc$2dc891f0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: Unified in the same sense there there might be a unified field theory, but it probably would be so complex that no one would understand it. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Scott Janzen Sent: Mon 12/31/2007 8:42 AM To: Richard Taylor; N197TR4 at cs.com; DSPGTi at aol.com; jwags at dotnet.com; wgrosenbach at juno.com; william.tobin3 at verizon.net; Bill Babcock Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather wait a minute. We have unified political thinking? I bet we shouldn't even go there. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Taylor" To: ; ; ; ; ; Cc: Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > Joe A wrote about his personal opinion: > > ".......I have no scientific or empirical proof of anything..........." > > > And now we have Iowa with the destiny of the entire United States and > probably the whole world in its hands this week. All I can say is, Joe, > Jack, Tony and the rest of you "I was born on a farm out in Ioway..." > singing good-ole-boys, just don't make no mistakes in the caucuses. And > you > surely know that on Wednesday you represent the entire unified political > thinking of the Friends of Triumph. So you know your job. Now just do it! > > You screw up and we'll see you at the track! > > Richard > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spreiss at verizon.net Sun Dec 30 20:33:56 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:33:56 +1100 Subject: [Fot] clean running Message-ID: <004f01c84b5d$f9908960$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> .....BTW, we have made "leakers" race worthy and gotten them through the weekend by just zip-tying baby diapers under the offending leak and changing them between sessions. Wouldn't that freak out an SCCA tech guy? Ya gotta be creative and open minded in this business. I think it would be very cool if fot took a proactive role in helping to develop cleaner and safer running vintage race cars in all jurisdictions and sanctioning bodies. Since joining I have learned so much about how to make the cars go faster and which tracks are most challenging and why. This is the first thread that seems to have touched on something I have sensed that was missing in the mindset, that being how to develop our hobby and passion to actually bring about a positive change in the global sense. I fully admit to being a neophyte in both realms, but though that this was worth mentioning to the group. Steve P. From Cofrog at aol.com Mon Dec 31 13:06:45 2007 From: Cofrog at aol.com (Cofrog at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:06:45 EST Subject: [Fot] IOWA Message-ID: I once rode in a stretch limousin that had wheels. Somewhere down south I bvelieve. Maybe Terlingua Texas as I was eating chile with some guy in a bib! Happy New Year Dan F **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From JWoesvra at aol.com Mon Dec 31 15:09:56 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:09:56 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/30/2007 11:20:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DSPGTi at aol.com writes: I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case venting connecting to the exhaust system. Once again, we will allow anything that works to help alleviate oiling the track. The proof is in the Puddin! If you SUCK your oil out and put it on MY track, you are goin' home right now! If you come up with a way to keep it from slowly dripping out, that's what I want. I don't car if you have a helicopter following you with a suction hose to your catch tank. What does GCR say about helicopter support vehicles? Jack Woehrle **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From spitfiresuz at 141.com Mon Dec 31 15:33:46 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:33:46 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47796E4A.1030006@141.com> I believe they are allowed as long as you don't utilize the downdraft for brake cooling... ;) Susan :) JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > > What does GCR say about helicopter support vehicles? > > Jack Woehrle > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Mon Dec 31 19:01:35 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 13:01:35 +1100 Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner In-Reply-To: <20071230.233932.5196.2@webmail18.dca.untd.com> References: <20071230.233932.5196.2@webmail18.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Joe, Check to see if you have any radial run out in either the crankshaft or camshaft gear. This may not seem like an issue for your type of failure. However, if you indeed have run out greater than a few thou, the chain tensioner will be continually flexing, rather than simply exerting tension force on the chain. This flexing will eventually lead to fatigue, and the most likeliest point will be close to the fixed end of the tensioner. I have had NEW crank gears with more than 0.020" thou of radial run out in them and once the timing chain drive has been assembled, you can physically see the tensioner being flexed while turning the engine over by hand. Hope this helps Peter V TR-4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Boruch Sent: Monday, 31 December 2007 3:40 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken timing chain tensioner. This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all with this same block). Some have broken in a season or less, while this one was used last season and then failed sometime this season. These have been from the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was from who. Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I am doing wrong that is causing the failures? They are not wearing thru, but rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot. Any better designed tensioners out there for the tractor motors? Joe(B) _____________________________________________________________ Are you overpaying for motorcycle insurance? Get a quote today. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmN0Fya3y18EGne27K9QLpQ 2 rxCQei95XilDIzITY2om3OIa/ Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4.tony at virgin.net Mon Dec 31 19:10:19 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 02:10:19 -0000 Subject: [Fot] IOWA References: Message-ID: <000401c84c1b$75258400$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Happy New Year Gentlemen .... hope 2008 is a fast and happy one for you all. Tony From bob at CoanPro.com Sat Dec 1 08:56:15 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 07:56:15 -0800 Subject: [Fot] $25,000 SCCA or Vintage Spitfire MK II for $5000. Message-ID: <002d01c83432$b4e62550$1eb26ff0$@com> Hey everyone, I've decided to sell this beautiful SCCA HP ready Spitfire along with a nice stock of spare parts. My Dad and I hoped to make it to the runoffs but its does not look like we will be doing that anytime soon, so instead of letting this car sit in storage, I'll find someone that wants to put it on the track. It could easily be converted to Vintage. Take a look at http://picasaweb.google.com/thinkfreerealtyphotos/SCCAHPTriumphSpitfire The guy I bought it from owned a racing supply business and put over 25k into the car and only ran it a few times. The car has been totally race prepared with a brand new 1147 race motor built by Acme Racing of Spartanburg NC, rebuilt transmission, rebuilt rear end, everything including lug bolts and studs have been rebuilt. The car has Mark Williams axels, modified carbs and Electromotive crank trigger ignition. Gary Johnson of E. TN Race Prep did the final assembly...including front coil over's, new front and rear disc brakes, Electromotive crank trigger ignition and more. I just put the car on e-bay for $5000. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &ssPageName=STRK:MESEX:IT&item=220178787790&_trksid=p3984.cSELL.m315.lVI I also have a the enclosed trailer and matching Dodge Ram truck if someone wanted a turnkey setup. All going for good prices. I need to clear out my storage shop over the next 3 weeks, so please forward this info to anyone you think might be interested. It's all located in Tustin, California, which is Southern California near Disneyland. Bob Coan 714-566-5138 _______________________________________________ From bob at CoanPro.com Sat Dec 1 12:13:09 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 11:13:09 -0800 Subject: [Fot] here is the correct link to the auction for the Spitfire Message-ID: <002801c8344e$36c82940$a4587bc0$@com> Here is the link for the auction for the SCCA HP or Vintage Spitfire. The link was broken on my last post. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &sspagename=STRK%3AMESEX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220178787790&_trksid=p3984.cSEL L.m315.lVI Bob Coan 714-566-5138 bob at coanpro.com From bob at CoanPro.com Sat Dec 1 13:59:44 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:59:44 -0800 Subject: [Fot] here is the correct link for the SCCA Spitfire MK II auction Message-ID: <003701c8345d$19ee4e30$4dcaea90$@com> Oh boy, the link was so long it presented a problem. Here is a link that works. Link to E-Bay Auction here. This is for the SCCA Spitfire for sale. Bob Coan bob at coanpro.com 714-566-5138 From bob at CoanPro.com Sat Dec 1 14:09:52 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 13:09:52 -0800 Subject: [Fot] one more try for link to 66 Spitfire racer auction Message-ID: <003c01c8345e$849c8700$8dd59500$@com> Ok, here is the auction number for the SCCA Spitfire. 220178787790 You would never guess that I am in the computer industry. Bob Coan bob at coanpro.com 714-566-5138 This is what I had to deal with. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220178787790&r u=http%3A%2F%2Fmotors.search-completed.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3 Fsofocus%3Dbs%26sbrftog%3D1%26ampsspagename%3Dh%253Ah%253Aadvsearch%253AUS%2 6catref%3DC12%26guest%3D1%26fcl%3D3%26frpp%3D50%26from%3DR10%26satitle%3D220 178787790%26sacat%3D6001%2526catref%253DC6%26a39%3D-24%26a38v1y%3D%26a38v2y% 3D%26a10239%3D-24%26a39705%3D-24%26a18%3D-24%26a10244%3D-24%26alist%3Da39%25 2Ca41%252Ca38v1y%252Ca38v2y%252Ca10239%252Ca3801%252Ca85%252Ca10246%252Ca335 12%252Ca10241%252Ca10244%252Ca39705%252Ca18%26pfmode%3D1%26reqtype%3D1%26gcs %3D13%26pfid%3D2473%26pf_query%3D220178787790%26sargn%3D-1%2526saslc%253D2%2 6sadis%3D200%26fpos%3D34997%26sabfmts%3D1%26saobfmts%3Dinsif%26fis%3D2%26ftr t%3D1%26ftrv%3D1%26saprclo%3D%26saprchi%3D%26sadis1%3D100%26fpos1%3D34997%26 lsot1%3D%26fsop%3D1%2526fsoo%253D2%26sadis2%3D100%26fpos2%3D34997%26lsot2%3D %26fvi%3D1 From REK46 at aol.com Sat Dec 1 14:21:37 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:21:37 EST Subject: [Fot] one more try for link to 66 Spitfire racer auction Message-ID: and our kids ridicule us 'old' guys for being "computerly challenged" ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From britbits at tiu.net Sat Dec 1 19:10:17 2007 From: britbits at tiu.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 20:10:17 -0600 Subject: [Fot] SCCA or Vintage Spitfire for sale In-Reply-To: <001101c833ce$866f9bc0$934ed340$@com> References: <001101c833ce$866f9bc0$934ed340$@com> Message-ID: <005c01c83488$7c390f50$ede435cf@jrg> Which vintage race groups allow rear discs on a Spitfire? Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+britbits=tiu.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+britbits=tiu.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Coan Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:59 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] SCCA or Vintage Spitfire for sale The guy I bought it from owned a racing supply business and put over 25k into the car and only ran it a few times. The car has been totally race prepared with a brand new 1147 race motor built by Acme Racing of Spartanburg NC, rebuilt transmission, rebuilt rear end, everything including lug bolts and studs have been rebuilt. The car has Mark Williams axels, modified carbs and Electromotive crank trigger ignition. Gary Johnson of E. TN Race Prep did the final assembly...including front coil over's, new front and rear disc brakes, Electromotive crank trigger ignition and more. Ebay item 220178787790 From bob at CoanPro.com Sat Dec 1 21:30:54 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 20:30:54 -0800 Subject: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. Message-ID: <002e01c8349c$21cd8a00$65689e00$@com> I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. Thanks for helping spread the word! Bob Coan From hottr6 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 2 15:11:11 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:11:11 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. Message-ID: > I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer > as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. Does this mean Babcock is preparing an Island-based "All Rust Tour"? Or are there two Triumph nutz in Hawaii? ;) Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 2 16:23:31 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 16:23:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] List Nomination Message-ID: <20071202233058.ELL23849.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> I would like to nominate Robert Smith (SMITH1127 at aol.com) to the list. Robert is a member of DCTRA (The Arizona TR Club although he lives in Hawaii) and has an interesting collection of cars including the full race Spitfire that he bought off this list the other day. Bill Babcock has corresponded with Robert in the past too. From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 2 16:26:32 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 16:26:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071202233059.ELP23849.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> There are two nuts. The guy that bought the Spitfire bought a TR3 from here in Arizona earlier this year and has a pretty interesting collection At 03:11 PM 12/2/2007, you wrote: > > I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer > > as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. > >Does this mean Babcock is preparing an Island-based "All Rust Tour"? > >Or are there two Triumph nutz in Hawaii? ;) > >Shane Ingate in NM > >_________________________________________________________________ >You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the im >Initiative now. >http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 2 16:42:05 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 15:42:05 -0800 Subject: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. References: Message-ID: Apparently there's two. No idea what he'll do with it in Hawaii, there's no track. I guess he wants to look at it. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Shane Ingate Sent: Sun 12/2/2007 2:11 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. > I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer > as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. Does this mean Babcock is preparing an Island-based "All Rust Tour"? Or are there two Triumph nutz in Hawaii? ;) Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 2 16:56:24 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 16:56:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071203000047.NJHB20016.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Bill, you've emailed the new owner before. Here is a comment that Robert (the new owner) sent to me about one of the uses for the car. "...It should be an interesting car in Hawaii, and I'm looking forward to competing on our small but fun SCCA track in Hilo..." At 04:42 PM 12/2/2007, you wrote: >Apparently there's two. No idea what he'll do with it in Hawaii, there's no >track. I guess he wants to look at it. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Shane Ingate >Sent: Sun 12/2/2007 2:11 PM >To: Friends of Triumph >Subject: Re: [Fot] The Spitfire is sold. > > > I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer > > as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. > >Does this mean Babcock is preparing an Island-based "All Rust Tour"? > >Or are there two Triumph nutz in Hawaii? ;) > >Shane Ingate in NM > >_________________________________________________________________ >You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the im >Initiative now. >http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From brad.kahler at 141.com Sun Dec 2 21:20:12 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 22:20:12 -0600 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man Message-ID: <475383FC.9080607@141.com> Its amazing he walked away from this. http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l157/Nifty_Fifty_1950/?action=view¤t=Luckiestmanontheplanet.flv Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer. From spreiss at verizon.net Sun Dec 2 05:42:43 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:42:43 +1100 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man References: <475383FC.9080607@141.com> Message-ID: <000801c834e0$d5af4010$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> "Maybe there's somethin' t' be said fer Positraction after all." (At least he didn't have to worry about that doggie comin back to gore him.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Kahler" To: Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 3:20 PM Subject: [Fot] One lucky man > Its amazing he walked away from this. > > http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l157/Nifty_Fifty_1950/?action=view¤t=Luckiestmanontheplanet.flv > > Brad > 1957 TR3 vintage racer. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 2 21:47:58 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:47:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man In-Reply-To: <000801c834e0$d5af4010$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> References: <475383FC.9080607@141.com> <000801c834e0$d5af4010$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: <20071203045220.ESSX23849.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Makes you wonder if inspection of safety items like belts, seat and roll cage are mere afterthoughts for the driver, the sanction and the track. What was the seat bolted to? Tin foil? Looking at the car on the starting line and seeing what looks like significant amounts of rust on the roof makes me wonder if the whole car was being held together with a coat of primer? Sure came apart like it's body panels had been flying in loose formation before the accident. At 05:42 AM 12/2/2007, Steven Preiss wrote: >"Maybe there's somethin' t' be said fer Positraction after all." (At least >he didn't have to worry about that doggie comin back to gore him.) > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Brad Kahler" >To: >Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 3:20 PM >Subject: [Fot] One lucky man > > > > Its amazing he walked away from this. > > > > >http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l157/Nifty_Fifty_1950/?action=view¤t=Luckiestmanontheplanet.flv > > > > Brad > > 1957 TR3 vintage racer. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 3 03:24:39 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 02:24:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Bud Babcock Message-ID: <645629.68817.qm@web81105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry to bomb the list, but would you please email me ... I need your email address and some other info for the glen 2008 project... Thanks, Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 3 03:25:29 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 02:25:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Dick stockton Message-ID: <793983.52516.qm@web81104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry to bomb the list, but would you please email me re the glen 2008 project .. thanks Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 3 03:26:20 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 02:26:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Paul Smock Message-ID: <99285.2473.qm@web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry to bomb the list, but would you please email me, re the glen 2008 project .. thanks Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From RustyTR4 at aol.com Mon Dec 3 04:44:28 2007 From: RustyTR4 at aol.com (RustyTR4 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:44:28 EST Subject: [Fot] List Nomination Message-ID: I would be glad to second that Matt Matt Bakes Triumph Rescue (610) 845 - 8217 _www.TriumphRescue.com_ (http://www.triumphrescue.com/) British Wiring, Inc. 866-461-9050 _www.BritishWiring.com_ (http://www.britishwiring.com/) 617 Walnut St. Bally, PA. 19503 **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Mon Dec 3 05:07:38 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoff Byrne) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 23:07:38 +1100 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs In-Reply-To: <883765.25532.qm@web81713.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <883765.25532.qm@web81713.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57B7EF2438F140498A362E71B44F01BA@GEOFFPC> Dennis Do not race your TR with the standard hubs they will break. we have had 2 failues on track cars which very nearly lead to the death of the drivers. There are many many examples of hub failures. The design is terrible . We replace the TR hub with a Datsun 240Z it is a fairly simple conversion. Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis DeLap" To: "FOT" Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs > Amici - I have a question for those who are racing a TR4A - TR6. What > have you done to make the rear axle/hubs safe? Upgrades, modifications, > etc. > > Thanks > Dennis DeLap > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Mon Dec 3 05:58:53 2007 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (James Gray) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 05:58:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs In-Reply-To: <57B7EF2438F140498A362E71B44F01BA@GEOFFPC> Message-ID: <000101c835ac$425eb850$0200a8c0@acme5oy6ykamox> Is there a source for photographs and/or detailed instructions regarding the 240Z conversion. I would like to learn more the hub failures. Jim g -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Geoff Byrne Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 5:08 AM To: Dennis DeLap; FOT Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs Dennis Do not race your TR with the standard hubs they will break. we have had 2 failues on track cars which very nearly lead to the death of the drivers. There are many many examples of hub failures. The design is terrible . We replace the TR hub with a Datsun 240Z it is a fairly simple conversion. Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis DeLap" To: "FOT" Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs > Amici - I have a question for those who are racing a TR4A - TR6. What > have you done to make the rear axle/hubs safe? Upgrades, modifications, > etc. > > Thanks > Dennis DeLap > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From igofaster at charter.net Mon Dec 3 07:12:03 2007 From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 6:12:03 -0800 Subject: [Fot] 1st Annual Eagles Canyon CVAR Race In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071203091203.27ENJ.151186.root@fepweb14> Good day to all! CVAR had the first official race at the brand new racetrack here in North Texas. FoT had three Triumphs in our 'Triumph Row'. Bob Kramerand his TR4, Tom Young with his TR3, and my GT6+. First, we had misty rain most of saturday but sunday cleared up nicely although windy.I'm still in training as a Novice 2 but boy... what a NICE track. Several elevation changes of 70 feet or so with lots of twisties. The track is 2.550 miles around and very challenging. Rookie as I am, I managed NOT to spin at all for the weekend as it was my main goal as I had spun twice at TWS last month. Thanks to Bob Kramer for the way cool FoT stickers! I also survived with no incidents, no mechanical issues, and still grinning over my GT6+! Take care all, Best regards, Bobby Whitehead #54 CVAR GT6+ From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Dec 3 07:28:46 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:28:46 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs Message-ID: What would you like to know about the hub failures? I nearly flipped my TR6 over when it stood on it's nose. The right rear hub broke off at the inner side as I was just coming out of a corner and accelerating WOT in 2nd gear. The tire went out the back of the car and the rear was thrown up high enough for it to clear out. I was told it would happen and I thought 'no, not to me'. I have also replaced the front hubs, another weak spot. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ---------------------------------------- From: "James Gray" Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 5:01 AM To: "'Geoff Byrne'" Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs Is there a source for photographs and/or detailed instructions regarding the 240Z conversion. I would like to learn more the hub failures. Jim g -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+toodamnfunky=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Geoff Byrne Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 5:08 AM To: Dennis DeLap; FOT Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs Dennis Do not race your TR with the standard hubs they will break. we have had 2 failues on track cars which very nearly lead to the death of the drivers. There are many many examples of hub failures. The design is terrible . We replace the TR hub with a Datsun 240Z it is a fairly simple conversion. Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis DeLap" To: "FOT" Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear hubs > Amici - I have a question for those who are racing a TR4A - TR6. What > have you done to make the rear axle/hubs safe? Upgrades, modifications, > etc. > > Thanks > Dennis DeLap > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From EDENMA at aol.com Mon Dec 3 07:29:53 2007 From: EDENMA at aol.com (EDENMA at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:29:53 EST Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 13, Issue 2 Message-ID: In a message dated 12/2/2007 11:59:33 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: I sold the Spitfire to a collector in Hawaii. He bought my enclosed trailer as well and will ship it over to be in his collection. Thanks for helping spread the word! Bob Coan Hmm, must be a collector as there is certainly no place to legally race it in Hawaii! Cheers! Mark **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From bob at CoanPro.com Mon Dec 3 08:12:01 2007 From: bob at CoanPro.com (Bob Coan) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 07:12:01 -0800 Subject: [Fot] nomination of Robert Smith Message-ID: <000c01c835be$dbd3ac40$937b04c0$@com> I second the nomination for Robert Smith. Bob Coan From dave at microworks.net Mon Dec 3 10:04:22 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 10:04:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Racing in Hawaii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071203171108.VDW21007.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Hmmm... This may be news to SCCA members over there. http://www.sccahawaii.org/ http://www.khnl.com/Global/story.asp?S=6689021 http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Apr/07/ln/FP604070366.html http://www.na-motorsports.com/Tracks/HI/ http://www.hawaiiracingassoc.com/ >Hmm, must be a collector as there is certainly no place to legally race it >in Hawaii! > >Cheers! > >Mark From edenma at aol.com Mon Dec 3 13:15:46 2007 From: edenma at aol.com (edenma at aol.com) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:15:46 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA04006C2E03B0-C88-1684@WEBMAIL-DB13.sysops.aol.com> Hmm....well it's definatly news to some of us!? Guess?I have been gone too long! Cheers! Mark Hmmm... This may be news to SCCA members over there. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003 From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Dec 3 13:21:17 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:21:17 EST Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks Message-ID: In a message dated 12/03/2007 2:16:00 PM Central Standard Time, edenma at aol.com writes: > Hmm....well it's definatly news to some of us!? Guess?I have been gone too > long! > > Amici... All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Dec 3 14:33:39 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:33:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/03/2007 2:16:00 PM Central Standard Time, > edenma at aol.com writes: > > >> Hmm....well it's definatly news to some of us!? Guess?I have been gone too >> long! >> >> > > Amici... > > All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, > come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. Ya, but it's da kine. Cowabunga, Dude! > Bill (Damdinger) Aloha. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From don at carterdesignassociates.com Mon Dec 3 14:44:51 2007 From: don at carterdesignassociates.com (Don Carter) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:44:51 -0600 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man In-Reply-To: <475383FC.9080607@141.com> Message-ID: <007901c835f5$bbf25660$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> Thanks for sending this out Brad. I've had a standing argument with a drag racing friend of mine for years about the danger factors of drag racing compared to auto crossing. Of course he goes directly to the precautions he is required to take in his super comp dragster that does 200 in a quarter. I sent him this video to show the average, (OK maybe lower end), drag racer who shows up to "run" his car. I think it will help my case. WOW! I'm glad this guy wasn't strapped in, he could have...well, been hurt. I've never seen a Chevy come apart like that and I'm a Chevy man. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+don=carterdesignassociates.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+don=carterdesignassociates.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 10:20 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] One lucky man Its amazing he walked away from this. http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l157/Nifty_Fifty_1950/?action=view¤t =Luckiestmanontheplanet.flv Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitfiresuz at 141.com Mon Dec 3 15:30:10 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:30:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man Message-ID: <380-220071213223010109@M2W029.mail2web.com> Yes, and add in all of the other hazards like alcohol-fuel fires (can't see 'em) and starting-line engine detonations, and I would much rather be road racing! Susan :) Original Message: ----------------- From: Don Carter don at carterdesignassociates.com Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:44:51 -0600 To: brad.kahler at 141.com, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] One lucky man Thanks for sending this out Brad. I've had a standing argument with a drag racing friend of mine for years about the danger factors of drag racing compared to auto crossing. Of course he goes directly to the precautions he is required to take in his super comp dragster that does 200 in a quarter. I sent him this video to show the average, (OK maybe lower end), drag racer who shows up to "run" his car. I think it will help my case. WOW! I'm glad this guy wasn't strapped in, he could have...well, been hurt. I've never seen a Chevy come apart like that and I'm a Chevy man. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft. Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange From trhouse at greenapple.com Mon Dec 3 17:15:14 2007 From: trhouse at greenapple.com (Tom Householder) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:15:14 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks 1955 report In-Reply-To: <8CA04006C2E03B0-C88-1684@WEBMAIL-DB13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: on 12/3/07 3:15 PM, edenma at aol.com at edenma at aol.com wrote: > Hmm....well it's definatly news to some of us!? Guess?I have been gone too > long! > > Cheers! > > Mark > > > Hmmm... This may be news to SCCA members over there. Here is what I got recorded FYI 1955 SCCA Hawaii Race 1 Standard 10 Driver unknown Race 2 Thomas Richert Triumph TR2 No Number listed From brad.kahler at 141.com Mon Dec 3 17:32:28 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:32:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man In-Reply-To: <007901c835f5$bbf25660$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> References: <007901c835f5$bbf25660$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> Message-ID: <4754A01C.2040902@141.com> Don, I pulled this info off of u-tube. The guys name was Don Renfrow. "I doubt this was NHRA legal. All I heard was this; it was his first (or one of his first) runs in the car. he built it himself. he poorly welded and bolted the seat and buckle onto the floor pan. as you know, with a powerful car the body with twist and shake. it did this so much it broke away his seat and buckle. with the seat under him moving around he got scared and gave it more gas (clearly not thinking clearly, all instinct.) and there you go, lost control, over-corrected and rolled over." "That was the old Fremont Drag Strip. On certain days you could bring anything there and run it. That footage has to be over 25years old. Its an automall parkway now." He is indeed lucky to be alive. Brad Don Carter wrote: > Thanks for sending this out Brad. I've had a standing argument with a drag > racing friend of mine for years about the danger factors of drag racing > compared to auto crossing. Of course he goes directly to the precautions he > is required to take in his super comp dragster that does 200 in a quarter. > I sent him this video to show the average, (OK maybe lower end), drag racer > who shows up to "run" his car. I think it will help my case. WOW! I'm glad > this guy wasn't strapped in, he could have...well, been hurt. I've never > seen a Chevy come apart like that and I'm a Chevy man. From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 3 19:17:52 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 18:17:52 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks References: Message-ID: Geez. I really didn't know there was a track anywhere on the islands. That's kind of good news. I was considering buying an enduro cart to keep my racing jones in check. I might have to check this hilo thing out. I'm working on building a magazine (online) about stand up paddle surfing. Keeping my mind from turning to much now that I'm screwing off full time. I've had to learn PHP, MySQL and CSS (sort of) still working on it, but it's coming out pretty good www.kenalu.com . I plan to launch it in February. > Amici... > > All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, > come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. Ya, but it's da kine. Cowabunga, Dude! > Bill (Damdinger) Aloha. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dos_gusanos at msn.com Mon Dec 3 19:26:42 2007 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:26:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man In-Reply-To: <4754A01C.2040902@141.com> References: <007901c835f5$bbf25660$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> <4754A01C.2040902@141.com> Message-ID: In Albuquerque, Racing, is Drag Racing. The local "Vintage" racing club tried to get these fast and furious types out to the road course but was unsuccessful due to the fact that at the drags your entry fee was $10 and you had to wear a (DOT)helmet if your car went over 110 mph. The road racers entry was $195 and no matter what you were in you had to have a SNELL helmet. Last year, a young guy lost his life when his Vette crashed and burned at the drags, not that a helmet would have saved him. I don't know what the safety requirements at the drag strip are this year.......................... From budscars at msn.com Mon Dec 3 20:21:18 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:21:18 -0800 Subject: [Fot] One lucky man References: <007901c835f5$bbf25660$59e8a8c0@donlaptop><4754A01C.2040902@141.com> Message-ID: Hi Gang...I read the FOT emails a lot..and .I say Very Little.....I have read a lot of Emails today about race car Safety Stuff.........Race Drivers Race! Racer Bud.. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Brad Kahler" ; "Don Carter" Cc: Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] One lucky man > In Albuquerque, Racing, is Drag Racing. The local "Vintage" racing club > tried > to get these fast and furious types out to the road course but was > unsuccessful due to the fact that at the drags your entry fee was $10 and > you > had to wear a (DOT)helmet if your car went over 110 mph. > > The road racers entry was $195 and no matter what you were in you had to > have > a SNELL helmet. Last year, a young guy lost his life when his Vette > crashed > and burned at the drags, not that a helmet would have saved him. I don't > know > what the safety requirements at the drag strip are this > year.......................... > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Mon Dec 3 21:11:39 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:11:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] 1st Annual Eagles Canyon CVAR Race In-Reply-To: <20071203091203.27ENJ.151186.root@fepweb14> Message-ID: <489862.70816.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bobby: Congrats on a "clean drive". I saw you moving to and from the grid yesterday but never had a chance to catch you and say hello. You were quite lucky not to be pitted on the hill...you got the full brute force of that 45 mph wind up there. BTW, other FOTer's present were John Price with his TVR and Joe Hovey and myself, both carless. I think we're goin enjoy this track once they grow some grass on those hills. Ed Barnard igofaster at charter.net wrote: Good day to all! CVAR had the first official race at the brand new racetrack here in North Texas. FoT had three Triumphs in our 'Triumph Row'. Bob Kramerand his TR4, Tom Young with his TR3, and my GT6+. First, we had misty rain most of saturday but sunday cleared up nicely although windy.I'm still in training as a Novice 2 but boy... what a NICE track. Several elevation changes of 70 feet or so with lots of twisties. The track is 2.550 miles around and very challenging. Rookie as I am, I managed NOT to spin at all for the weekend as it was my main goal as I had spun twice at TWS last month. Thanks to Bob Kramer for the way cool FoT stickers! I also survived with no incidents, no mechanical issues, and still grinning over my GT6+! Take care all, Best regards, Bobby Whitehead #54 CVAR GT6+ Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From EDENMA at aol.com Mon Dec 3 21:45:28 2007 From: EDENMA at aol.com (EDENMA at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 23:45:28 EST Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks Message-ID: In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:21:17 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, BillDentin writes: Amici... All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. Bill (Damdinger) Indeed Bill, it is! However, having been married to a girl from Hawaii for more than 20 years (read: she has tolerated me that long) the likelihood of my returning when we retire is great (particularly since I never wanted to leave to begin with!). So you see, if I wish to continue racing for the foreseeable future, I have a vested interest in the status of tracks (or lack thereof) in Hawaii. Realistically though, I guess my cars and I would be better off raced here in the mainland. The possibilities are, none the less, intriguing. Cheers! Mark **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From hottr6 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 4 07:48:45 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:48:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] NHRA [was One lucky man] Message-ID: Amici, When I built the Pantera, I made sure it met BOTH SCCA Solo and NHRA regs, as I ran both. That has been much more of a challenge with the TR, as NHRA does not sanction rag tops. Nevertheless, I have met and exceeded, in spirit, their regs for 9-sec cars. Some have argued that since I am at best able to do 14 ETs that I am going overboard on safety, I reply that hitting the wall at 90mph is worthy of extreme measures in mitigation. Safety first. Reliability second. Performance last. I'd rather finish a race in any place than momentarily lead and DNF. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007 From norlinengineering at comcast.net Tue Dec 4 09:03:21 2007 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:03:21 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c8368f$32765c20$020ba8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP> There's also a second SCCA region in Hawaii, the Big Island Region. http://www.bigislandscca.org/ Right now they are essentially autocrossing, but I know they are working with the developers of the new track. Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of EDENMA at aol.com Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:45 PM To: BillDentin at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:21:17 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, BillDentin writes: Amici... All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. Bill (Damdinger) Indeed Bill, it is! However, having been married to a girl from Hawaii for more than 20 years (read: she has tolerated me that long) the likelihood of my returning when we retire is great (particularly since I never wanted to leave to begin with!). So you see, if I wish to continue racing for the foreseeable future, I have a vested interest in the status of tracks (or lack thereof) in Hawaii. Realistically though, I guess my cars and I would be better off raced here in the mainland. The possibilities are, none the less, intriguing. Cheers! Mark **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Dec 4 09:49:03 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 11:49:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Fot] New Track Moves Forward in Northeast Message-ID: Hi, Some of you may care about this, others may not. NER SCCA has been working on a new track for about 10 years. Last night they got the go-ahead from the town of Palmer, MA - the local permitting is done, all that's left is the formal environmental regulations compliance (they are well on thier way to that hurdle). Read the article here: http://www.masslive.com/republican/stories/index.ssf?/base/news-12/1196761858231780.xml&coll=1#continue If you want to see some basic track info, go to: www.palmermotorsportspark.com There's not much info there yet, but there will be in the near future. The plan is a 2.5 mile natural terrain road course set in 650 acres of woods. Eventual plans should include a large skid pad a'la Beaver Run. At any rate, there's a possible venue to fill the "void" in the northeast that exists (and will exist even mor ein the near term) of available tracks. NHIS has been sold to one of the NASCAR kingpins, so the road course there is in jeopardy and Lime Rock hosts events from at least 4 local SCCA regions and a SCAD of other clubs (BMWCCA, Porsche club and so forth) and the track rental price is pretty much off the charts, so a new track is a welcome relief indeed! FWIW, the track is a for-profit LLC and at this time they are still looking for large investors - contac them if you want to invest some money in the project. Regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From trhouse at greenapple.com Tue Dec 4 10:57:19 2007 From: trhouse at greenapple.com (Tom Householder) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 12:57:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks In-Reply-To: <000301c8368f$32765c20$020ba8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP> Message-ID: on 12/4/07 11:03 AM, Norlin Engineering at norlinengineering at comcast.net wrote: > There's also a second SCCA region in Hawaii, the Big Island Region. > > http://www.bigislandscca.org/ > > Right now they are essentially autocrossing, but I know they are working > with the developers of the new track. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+norlinengineering=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of EDENMA at aol.com > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:45 PM > To: BillDentin at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Hawaii Tracks > > > In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:21:17 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > BillDentin > writes: > > Amici... > > All this talk about road racing circuits in Hawaii is redundant. I mean, > come on. Hawaii! That's a hell of tow. > > Bill (Damdinger) > > > I was reading an old racing newsletter from the fifties . They generally had a cartoon or two in the publication characterizing some current activity . One was an aircraft carrier Steaming along with a Road race course layed out on the deck . The caption read "This has been going on ever since the Captain Got his subscription to MotoRacing magazine" Iwish I would have thought of that when I was a sailor ..I could have taken the TR with me!!!! T From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 4 11:04:43 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:04:43 EST Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? Message-ID: Looks bad in Washington and Oregon.... Anyone impacted? Joe A From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 4 12:21:42 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 11:21:42 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? References: Message-ID: I have to drive to Manzanita this morning to see if my beach house is still there, High possibility of tree damage, but we'll see. Other than that we're fine. Short power outage and the generator didn't fire up. Battery must be dead. I hear that damned thing running in maintenance mode every week for fifteen minutes and when I need it--no go. About the time I got ready to swap in a spare battery the power came on. It's a gorgeous day today--bright blue skies and sunny. Everything looks like it's been freshly washed cuz it was! -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Tue 12/4/2007 10:04 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? Looks bad in Washington and Oregon.... Anyone impacted? Joe A Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From greenman62 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 4 13:18:35 2007 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 20:18:35 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: `Haven't talked to the kids... I assume if they had problems I'd have heard about it. I just hope John left the "Westy" at home yesterday. Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:04:43 -0500 > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? > > Looks bad in Washington and Oregon.... > > Anyone impacted? > > Joe A > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jibjib at att.net Tue Dec 4 17:48:58 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:48:58 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <012f01c836d8$9fe94580$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Yeah, the awesome snow we got in the cascades over the late in the week and early in the weekend was soaked badly on Sunday and Monday. We'll get more later in the week and hopefully get our ski area open this weekend. Other than that, it was a non-issue for us. The rain and wind were pretty nasty, but we kept our electricity the whole time, probably because I finally bought a 7800 watt generator last year. All is will in the Brooks household. Jack -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:05 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Anyone affected in the NW? Looks bad in Washington and Oregon.... Anyone impacted? Joe A Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From brad.kahler at 141.com Tue Dec 4 21:33:52 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:33:52 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Lucky people Message-ID: <47562A30.4000309@141.com> I have no idea why these clips keep showing up on the old dodge trucks forum but they do. Both are just amazing. http://www.czabe.com/mediaclips/index.shtml?a=showclip&id=880 http://www.czabe.com/mediaclips/index.shtml?a=showclip&id=877 Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Dec 5 06:59:58 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 07:59:58 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Lucky people In-Reply-To: <47562A30.4000309@141.com> References: <47562A30.4000309@141.com> Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820B9C9EDA@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> The videos are cool but the Panic button is better. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:34 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Lucky people I have no idea why these clips keep showing up on the old dodge trucks forum but they do. Both are just amazing. http://www.czabe.com/mediaclips/index.shtml?a=showclip&id=880 http://www.czabe.com/mediaclips/index.shtml?a=showclip&id=877 Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vanlake at bellsouth.net Wed Dec 5 09:45:45 2007 From: vanlake at bellsouth.net (vanlake at bellsouth.net) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:45:45 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? Message-ID: <120520071645.29897.4756D5B90000184C000074C922218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> I also like more information on what I need to do to make my TR6 rear hubs stay together. Does anyone know of a supplier / parts house for the 240Z hubs? Is it just the outside portion that is of concern? Has anyone tried the Richard Goods CV setup for a racer? looks nice, pricey though. Thanks. Also, I had a couple dozen of the large color laminated decals of the FOT logo made up by a friend of mine, I am hoping to pass them out at events through out the year. Oldspeed 72 Mark From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 5 12:53:04 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:53:04 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? Message-ID: If you think you can have decent hubs on a TR6 for the price of crappy eBay parts, you are sadly mistaken. There is a lot of straight-forward machine work involved. Richard Good's CV hubs may look pricey, but they will not cost much more than a home-grown solution. Stop wasting time and get Richard's stuff (usual disclaimer here). BTW, does anyone know if Richard's hubs are related to the old SNG Barrett hubs? > Does anyone know of a supplier / parts house for the 240Z hubs? > Is it just the outside portion that is of concern? Has anyone > tried the Richard Goods CV setup for a racer? looks nice, pricey though. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista. + Windows Live. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_M ediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Wed Dec 5 14:09:43 2007 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:09:43 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? Message-ID: <20071205150943.ujaugof0rw4gk4ww@secure.uwalumni.com> It was asked: > BTW, does anyone know if Richard's hubs are > related to the old SNG Barrett hubs? I don't know if they're "related", but I certainly hope they're not identical. I ran two races with the SNG Barrett CV set-up in my TR6 a few years back, and decided to try something else when one failed -- sending the car into an airborne 360-degree flat spin that gave me an excellent view of my departed left rear wheel as it rolled merrily into the weeds. Jim Hill From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Wed Dec 5 15:00:50 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:00:50 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? References: Message-ID: <023a01c8378a$4c9f6c30$1b02a8c0@workstation3> I agree. Either get the Corvair hubs, Z car, the Good Parts hubs or the Quaife hubs from England. They are all about the same price(y). Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Ingate" To: Cc: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? > If you think you can have decent hubs on a TR6 for the price > of crappy eBay parts, you are sadly mistaken. There is a lot of > straight-forward machine work involved. Richard Good's CV hubs may look > pricey, but they will not cost much more than a home-grown solution. > Stop wasting time and get Richard's stuff (usual disclaimer here). > > BTW, does anyone know if Richard's hubs are related to the old SNG > Barrett hubs? > > > Does anyone know of a supplier / parts house for the 240Z hubs? > > Is it just the outside portion that is of concern? Has anyone > > tried the Richard Goods CV setup for a racer? looks nice, pricey though. > > Shane Ingate in NM > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista. + Windows Live. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_M > ediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Dec 5 15:09:41 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:09:41 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200712052209.lB5M9lnW229004@ns3.geneseo.net> At 01:53 PM 12/5/2007, Shane Ingate wrote: If you think you can have decent hubs on a TR6 for the price of crappy eBay parts, etc............... I have been talking to Southwick about possibly supplying uprated hubs for the TR6. As you may know, Southwick Machine and Design currently supplies the virtually unbreakable rear axle conversion for the straight axle cars. We are looking at doing hubs for the TR6. At least one of the previous suppliers has decided to no longer supply them and he says he would welcome some other supplier for them. We really don't want to stomp on any toes of anyone currently making these parts. At this point it is in the discussion stage. At the moment we are waiting to get some stock rear suspension parts so that we can do the engineering. We are somewhat concerned about the availability of raw material - Corvair and Datsun 240 Z parts are not available in the Midwest, but perhaps they are available new somewhere. Bob Southwick wants to look at using newer parts that are more plentiful. Since so many cars have independent suspension nowadays, there are some more recent possibilities. I think there is a very good chance that all this will happen, but not overnight. If you are not in a big hurry for these parts and can wait a few months to give us a chance to engineer it, then this would be a possibility for you. uncle jack From goodparts at verizon.net Wed Dec 5 16:13:38 2007 From: goodparts at verizon.net (Richard Good) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:13:38 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? In-Reply-To: <20071205150943.ujaugof0rw4gk4ww@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <20071205150943.ujaugof0rw4gk4ww@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <475730A2.8010903@verizon.net> My hubs are not related to SNG Barrett's. I was not aware of theirs. Can anyone elaborate on their design? Mine use a sealed double row ball bearing like you would find in a common front wheel drive hub. The wheel flange presses into the ID of the bearing then the drive axle goes through the splined hole in the wheel flange with a big nut on the outside. The bearings are housed in custom machined steel hubs that bolt into the trailing arms. Should be bullet proof. I am currently looking into offering the same hub with heavy duty u-joint axles in lieu of the CV's for a lower cost option. Regards, Richard Good Good Parts spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: >It was asked: > > > >>BTW, does anyone know if Richard's hubs are >>related to the old SNG Barrett hubs? >> >> > >I don't know if they're "related", but I certainly hope they're not identical. > >I ran two races with the SNG Barrett CV set-up in my TR6 a few years >back, and decided to try something else when one failed -- sending the >car into an airborne 360-degree flat spin that gave me an excellent >view of my departed left rear wheel as it rolled merrily into the weeds. > >Jim Hill >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From markjwea at msn.com Thu Dec 6 06:55:41 2007 From: markjwea at msn.com (MARK J WEATHERS) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 14:55:41 +0100 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? In-Reply-To: <120520071645.29897.4756D5B90000184C000074C922218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> References: <120520071645.29897.4756D5B90000184C000074C922218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> Message-ID: Datsun 510 hubs are an option also, not sure if they are the same as 240Z. I put them on my 6 several years ago. Mark Weathers> From: vanlake at bellsouth.net> To: fot at autox.team.net> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:45:45 +0000> CC: vanlake at bellsouth.net> Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ?> > I also like more information on what I need to do to make my TR6 rear hubs stay together. Does anyone know of a supplier / parts house for the 240Z hubs? Is it just the outside portion that is of concern? Has anyone tried the Richard Goods CV setup for a racer? looks nice, pricey though. Thanks.> > Also, I had a couple dozen of the large color laminated decals of the FOT logo made up by a friend of mine, I am hoping to pass them out at events through out the year. Oldspeed 72 Mark> _______________________________________________> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From REK46 at aol.com Thu Dec 6 11:33:00 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 13:33:00 EST Subject: [Fot] Spitfire in junkyard Message-ID: If anyone in the Michigan area is interested: there is a fairly cherry Spitfire 1500...in a junkyard in Ypsilanti..at RTS Automotive 2835 Coolidge Ypsi...ph 734 485-7676..contact..'Nick'...this is betw Detroit and AnnArbor...this info is from a contact,so I did NOT see it myself....rick ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From gaf3 at charter.net Thu Dec 6 11:54:20 2007 From: gaf3 at charter.net (Glenn Franco) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:54:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire in junkyard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4758455C.8010507@charter.net> I just called RTS, Nick is off sick, but the gentleman that answered the phone says they want $2200 for it. I'm local if anyone is interested. I'm at my limit (6) for Triumphs. Glenn Franco 72 Spit race car under construction REK46 at aol.com wrote: > If anyone in the Michigan area is interested: there is a fairly cherry > Spitfire 1500...in a junkyard in Ypsilanti..at RTS Automotive 2835 Coolidge > Ypsi...ph 734 485-7676..contact..'Nick'...this is betw Detroit and AnnArbor...this > info is from a contact,so I did NOT see it myself....rick > > > > ************************************** > Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. > > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 6 14:11:17 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:11:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? References: <120520071645.29897.4756D5B90000184C000074C922218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> Message-ID: <003001c8384c$8ad7af40$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> 240z & 510 are the same. I put a set (via Steve Smith) on a GT6. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MARK J WEATHERS" To: ; Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? > Datsun 510 hubs are an option also, not sure if they are the same as 240Z. > I > put them on my 6 several years ago. > > Mark Weathers> From: vanlake at bellsouth.net> To: fot at autox.team.net> Date: > Wed, > 5 Dec 2007 16:45:45 +0000> CC: vanlake at bellsouth.net> Subject: [Fot] TR6 > rear > Hubs ?> > I also like more information on what I need to do to make my TR6 > rear hubs stay together. Does anyone know of a supplier / parts house for > the > 240Z hubs? Is it just the outside portion that is of concern? Has anyone > tried > the Richard Goods CV setup for a racer? looks nice, pricey though. > Thanks.> > > Also, I had a couple dozen of the large color laminated decals of the FOT > logo > made up by a friend of mine, I am hoping to pass them out at events > through > out the year. Oldspeed 72 Mark> > _______________________________________________> > http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Thu Dec 6 16:00:48 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:00:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Christmas special on spindle reinforcing kit Message-ID: <200712062300.lB6N0txV415411@ns3.geneseo.net> Contact me off line for a very special price on the front spindle reinforcing kit. Christmas special price good through 25 December. uncle jack From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Dec 6 19:37:15 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:37:15 EST Subject: [Fot] The plot thickens... Message-ID: Amici... Ahem! I think I am aware why I received the two copies of TRIUMPH WORLD.'The December issue arrived today and includes an article by my friend, Paul Richardson, about me. I'm described as a 'character'. I'll not argue that. Will this make me a schill or pimp? No matter! My evaluation remains the same. Character article not withstanding, this issue has great stuff on the Michelotti Ginevra TR5 (a Triumph prototype I was unaware of), a tribute to Dorothy Deen (she was a fox), TR6 and GT6 stuff, and new stuff I really enjoy about 'Flying Standards' (suicide doors and all). I always wondered who started the waterfall front grille. TRIUMPH or HUDSON? Whatever... Bill (Damdinger) **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From BillB at bnj.com Thu Dec 6 20:14:34 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:14:34 -0800 Subject: [Fot] The plot thickens... References: Message-ID: Doesn't really matter Bill, once you get past fifty being called a pimp or a schill is a compliment. It means A. you can still handle women, and B. People would actually care what you say. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: Thu 12/6/2007 6:37 PM To: 'fot at autox.team.net' Subject: [Fot] The plot thickens... Amici... Ahem! I think I am aware why I received the two copies of TRIUMPH WORLD.'The December issue arrived today and includes an article by my friend, Paul Richardson, about me. I'm described as a 'character'. I'll not argue that. Will this make me a schill or pimp? No matter! My evaluation remains the same. Character article not withstanding, this issue has great stuff on the Michelotti Ginevra TR5 (a Triumph prototype I was unaware of), a tribute to Dorothy Deen (she was a fox), TR6 and GT6 stuff, and new stuff I really enjoy about 'Flying Standards' (suicide doors and all). I always wondered who started the waterfall front grille. TRIUMPH or HUDSON? Whatever... Bill (Damdinger) **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4.tony at virgin.net Sat Dec 8 04:46:20 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:46:20 -0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <004201c8398f$f39cdf70$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Amici Id like to propose Neil Revington for membership of our esteemed institution. Ive known Neil for 10 years at least now and I honestly dont know anyone who is as steeped in TR's as he is. Neil runs Revington TR and im sure many of you have spoken to him or bought some of te quality parts he supplies, te majority after thorough testing on one of his own TR's. Neil studied aeronautical engineering as an Electro- Mechanical engineer in the early 70's whilst completing a Ministry of Defence apprenticeship in quality assurance. After spending a few years an MOD QA officer, the wider world beckoned and Neil set up Revington TR after a move to Somerset England. The company has grown over the last 30 years and has become synonymous with quality and service. Neil has been the driving force behind most of the improvements offered by Revington TR, many of which are tested on Neil's own TR2 ( bought for #17 when an apprentice) and TR5. Cars prepared by Revington TR have had success in all forms of motor sport from trials, through sprints and Hillclimbs to rallies and races. Neil has competed in many of the forms himself, winning the Southern Sprint and Hillclimb championship in 1983 and a host of international rallies ( list attached) Neil continues to develop new improvements on a daily basis whilst running Revington TR. Neil also owns 6VC, one of the three surviving ex works TR4 rally cars and co owns 3VC with myself and 3 others ....... 6VC gets out in hot competition fairly regularly too, so he and I are very much of the same breed .... albeit he is shorter and smarter. Any seconds for me please ? Regards Tony From tr4.tony at virgin.net Sat Dec 8 04:48:20 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:48:20 -0000 Subject: [Fot] Neil Revington Message-ID: <006201c83990$3b19ce80$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> so here's the attachment ........ ;-) [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/msword which had a name of Neil's competition sucessses.doc] From rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com Sat Dec 8 05:22:29 2007 From: rdavis4 at cfl.rr.com (Bob) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 07:22:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: <004201c8398f$f39cdf70$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Message-ID: <006201c83995$007977d0$0201a8c0@VALUEDA4DE119D> I second. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TR4Tony" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 6:46 AM Subject: [Fot] Nomination > Amici > > Id like to propose Neil Revington for membership of our esteemed > institution. > Ive known Neil for 10 years at least now and I honestly dont know anyone > who > is as steeped in TR's as he is. > > Neil runs Revington TR and im sure many of you have spoken to him or > bought > some of te quality parts he supplies, te majority after thorough testing > on > one of his own TR's. > > Neil studied aeronautical engineering as an Electro- Mechanical engineer > in > the early 70's whilst completing a Ministry of Defence apprenticeship in > quality assurance. > After spending a few years an MOD QA officer, the wider world beckoned and > Neil set up Revington TR after a move to Somerset England. > > The company has grown over the last 30 years and has become synonymous > with > quality and service. > > Neil has been the driving force behind most of the improvements offered by > Revington TR, many of which are tested on Neil's own TR2 ( bought for #17 > when > an apprentice) and TR5. > > Cars prepared by Revington TR have had success in all forms of motor sport > from trials, through sprints and Hillclimbs to rallies and races. > > Neil has competed in many of the forms himself, winning the Southern > Sprint > and Hillclimb championship in 1983 and a host of international rallies ( > list > attached) > Neil continues to develop new improvements on a daily basis whilst running > Revington TR. > > Neil also owns 6VC, one of the three surviving ex works TR4 rally cars and > co > owns 3VC with myself and 3 others ....... 6VC gets out in hot competition > fairly regularly too, so he and I are very much of the same breed .... > albeit > he is shorter and smarter. > > Any seconds for me please ? > > Regards > > Tony > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sat Dec 8 09:41:56 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:41:56 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: <004201c8398f$f39cdf70$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Message-ID: <001801c839b9$3ea31fb0$3f0ec548@RW> It is my pleasure to second the nomination of Neil, a welcome and worthy addition to this list. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TR4Tony" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 3:46 AM Subject: [Fot] Nomination > Amici > > Id like to propose Neil Revington for membership of our esteemed > institution. > Ive known Neil for 10 years at least now and I honestly dont know anyone > who > is as steeped in TR's as he is. > > Neil runs Revington TR and im sure many of you have spoken to him or > bought > some of te quality parts he supplies, te majority after thorough testing > on > one of his own TR's. > > Neil studied aeronautical engineering as an Electro- Mechanical engineer > in > the early 70's whilst completing a Ministry of Defence apprenticeship in > quality assurance. > After spending a few years an MOD QA officer, the wider world beckoned and > Neil set up Revington TR after a move to Somerset England. > > The company has grown over the last 30 years and has become synonymous > with > quality and service. > > Neil has been the driving force behind most of the improvements offered by > Revington TR, many of which are tested on Neil's own TR2 ( bought for #17 > when > an apprentice) and TR5. > > Cars prepared by Revington TR have had success in all forms of motor sport > from trials, through sprints and Hillclimbs to rallies and races. > > Neil has competed in many of the forms himself, winning the Southern > Sprint > and Hillclimb championship in 1983 and a host of international rallies ( > list > attached) > Neil continues to develop new improvements on a daily basis whilst running > Revington TR. > > Neil also owns 6VC, one of the three surviving ex works TR4 rally cars and > co > owns 3VC with myself and 3 others ....... 6VC gets out in hot competition > fairly regularly too, so he and I are very much of the same breed .... > albeit > he is shorter and smarter. > > Any seconds for me please ? > > Regards > > Tony > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 8 09:44:37 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:44:37 EST Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: Tony, Attachments do not go through on FOT email. Bradakis will also need Neil's eMail address to include it on the list. Please extend an FoT Inivitation to Neil Revington to join us at Watkins Glen, per our earlier discussion. Best Regards, Joe A > Amici > > Id like to propose Neil Revington for membership of our esteemed institution. > Ive known Neil for 10 years at least now and I honestly dont know anyone who > is as steeped in TR's as he is. > > Neil runs Revington TR and im sure many of you have spoken to him or bought > some of te quality parts he supplies, te majority after thorough testing on > one of his own TR's. > > Neil studied aeronautical engineering as an Electro- Mechanical engineer in > the early 70's whilst completing a Ministry of Defence apprenticeship in > quality assurance. > After spending a few years an MOD QA officer, the wider world beckoned and > Neil set up Revington TR after a move to Somerset England. > > The company has grown over the last 30 years and has become synonymous with > quality and service. > > Neil has been the driving force behind most of the improvements offered by > Revington TR, many of which are tested on Neil's own TR2 ( bought for #17 > when > an apprentice) and TR5. > > Cars prepared by Revington TR have had success in all forms of motor sport > from trials, through sprints and Hillclimbs to rallies and races. > > Neil has competed in many of the forms himself, winning the Southern Sprint > and Hillclimb championship in 1983 and a host of international rallies ( list > attached) > Neil continues to develop new improvements on a daily basis whilst running > Revington TR. > > Neil also owns 6VC, one of the three surviving ex works TR4 rally cars and co > owns 3VC with myself and 3 others ....... 6VC gets out in hot competition > fairly regularly too, so he and I are very much of the same breed .... albeit > he is shorter and smarter. > > Any seconds for me please ? > > Regards > > Tony > From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 8 14:54:58 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:54:58 EST Subject: [Fot] TR3 TR4 SS Heat Shields Message-ID: FOT...if you dont have a TR3 or TR4 Delete now. The first 25 heatshields I made were based on my TR4 #197, not for street cars. Then I changed the design because the street guys wanted them. I have a few of them left lying about.....so I put them on eBay. I failed to contact this list. Then I got a note from one FoT member, who is going to put one on his 63 TR4. TR3 TR4 Stainless Steel Carb HS-needs notch & hole Item number: 170175413401 So if you want one, they are eBay, or you can contact me directly. CHEAP! Going fast. Thanks! Joe A From Gt6steve at aol.com Sat Dec 8 17:58:57 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 19:58:57 EST Subject: [Fot] California excursion Message-ID: Amici, I'm thinking of a motorhome cruise arond SoCal around the Christmas season. I want to go see Ken G. in the North but the rest is open. What is that beach north of LA that always has the campers in it? A lot of rocks on the land side? Could I possibly find an open site there in the winter? Where else should we go while trying to stay in the Southwest? I would look for something between Christmas and New Years so as not to intrude on celebrations. Steve, Pat and the HOUNDS OF HELL.....before anyone offers invitations;-))) ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Thu Dec 6 05:32:35 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoff Byrne) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 23:32:35 +1100 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? In-Reply-To: <475730A2.8010903@verizon.net> References: <20071205150943.ujaugof0rw4gk4ww@secure.uwalumni.com> <475730A2.8010903@verizon.net> Message-ID: <53B4703851C5459B8F9B38B1E48539D6@GEOFFPC> FOT For the benefit of all let me briefly outline our experience in Australia with this problem. We have had two cars go end over end when the rear hub broke and the wheel going under the rear body catapulting the car into the air . Luckly with only minor driver injuries in both case. I believe the problem can be traced to the hub design with the two piece hub asemble of an outer axle and hub. The outer bearing is mounted on the hub and the inner bearing on the axle. The hub and axle are secured by a taper and key with a nut on the outer end of the axle. It takes 50 ton to pull a sound hub apart to replace the bearing and i have seem damage done as a result . If the nut is left on the axle to prevent it flying apart when under a press the shock load of it coming apart is taken on the nut and threaded end of the axle . several failures have occurred due to the axle breaking at the base of the tread. We have a lot of Triumph saloons in Aus which have the same rear end and the hubs are interchangeable so a lot of parts get mixed up over the years . We have also discovered there are two different assemblies with different tapers on the axle which only vary by about 7degrees and can easily be mixed with dire results. What we did at first was to get a Datsun rear axle assemble and cut the trailing arm material off the bearing carrier . Turn the outside of the carrier and machine out the inside of the existing TR hub and press in the Datsun carrier , the outer faces flush gives correct hub face alignment . The two were then nickel bronze welded together ( TIG or stick welding usually leads to cracking). The axles need to be shortened ( let me know if you want details on how to do this properly)and the hand brake cable bracked bolt recessed to complete the mods. This arrangement has served sereral of us well for a number of years with no problem . I have recently taken this much further . We have had complete hubs machined and fitted the Datsun axle to them with CV joints both ends and a small floating axle between the two CVs . This is a much smother drive line arrangement works very well but is expensive. The arrangement sounds very much like Richards Goods product. My advice is that nobody should be racing an independant rear end TR with the standard hubs they will fail ... sometime . You simple do not want a hub assemble where the bearing loads are not on one common member. Incidently the same problem exists with the GT6 Mkll rear end ( the roto flex coupling one). They are two piece and fail the same way. The first ever GT6 to race in Aus in 1968 flipped at Warwick Farm when the rear hub broke . I raced a GT6 through the 1970s with special forged one piece hubs. Big horse power (Kas motor) and big wheels and no problems. Hope this helps the sharing of info for FOT let me know if anyone would like more details Regards Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Good" To: ; Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 rear Hubs ? > My hubs are not related to SNG Barrett's. I was not aware of theirs. > Can anyone elaborate on their design? Mine use a sealed double row ball > bearing like you would find in a common front wheel drive hub. The > wheel flange presses into the ID of the bearing then the drive axle goes > through the splined hole in the wheel flange with a big nut on the > outside. The bearings are housed in custom machined steel hubs that > bolt into the trailing arms. Should be bullet proof. > > I am currently looking into offering the same hub with heavy duty > u-joint axles in lieu of the CV's for a lower cost option. > > Regards, > Richard Good > Good Parts > > spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: > >>It was asked: >> >> >> >>>BTW, does anyone know if Richard's hubs are >>>related to the old SNG Barrett hubs? >>> >>> >> >>I don't know if they're "related", but I certainly hope they're not >>identical. >> >>I ran two races with the SNG Barrett CV set-up in my TR6 a few years >>back, and decided to try something else when one failed -- sending the >>car into an airborne 360-degree flat spin that gave me an excellent >>view of my departed left rear wheel as it rolled merrily into the weeds. >> >>Jim Hill >>_______________________________________________ >>http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>Fot mailing list >>Fot at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sat Dec 8 22:20:27 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 00:20:27 EST Subject: [Fot] Re Neil Revington Message-ID: In a message dated 12/08/07 10:59:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: > Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:41:56 -0800 > From: "Kas Kastner" > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination > To: "TR4Tony" , > Cc: n197tr4 at cs.com > Message-ID: <001801c839b9$3ea31fb0$3f0ec548 at RW> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > It is my pleasure to second the nomination of Neil, a welcome and worthy > addition to this list. I know Neil, Fine fellow. Memories of a wonderful barbecue in Belfast, Northern Ireland with Neil & his lovely family, also met him at several TR Register International meetings at Malvern, Worcestershire, in England. I third him. Regards Leon F Guyot From dobrosailor at yahoo.com Sun Dec 9 11:47:46 2007 From: dobrosailor at yahoo.com (mark eginton) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 10:47:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Watkins etc Message-ID: <94383.39510.qm@web90309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greetings all, Its been quite a while since I dove into the archives to see what's been going on, been a busy summer. I was very happy to see all the activities around next year's Watkins Glen event. I live in Ithaca 20 minutes away so if there is anything I can help with in terms of local knowledge (e.g. cops tolerate 10 mph over above 45mph...), please feel free to contact me if I can help. I also have parts in case someone has "issues" that weekend. Had a great time last year meeting FOTrs gathered around any marquis ending in ...mph or ...ote. Looking forward to meeting more of you this year. Great advice to check out www.grandprixfestival.com I found room in the kana event, 20 cars only, for something less life threatening. I have a vintage Harley that needs a ride to southern california this summer if anyone has room on the trip back. Would be happy to help with expenses... I also have a complete stock engine I am going to sell this winter. Anyone venture a guess at how much to ask and a good venue to sell it. Its a good running 83mm std with negligable cylinder ridges, good compression and high port head. Valve cover to oil pan, water pump housing to flywheel, including manifold, no carbs. Best regards to all, Mark Eginton mee23 at cornell.edu --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. From triosan at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 11:55:04 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 10:55:04 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rod needed Message-ID: <8cbd782d0712091055u759043a6o622e531a9216f7f1@mail.gmail.com> I need on TR6 rod -- the variety that does not have the hole in the body. Have 5, need one more [duh]. Anybody have one to spare/sell? Thanks -- Chuck Arnold From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 9 12:13:40 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 14:13:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen 2008 Message-ID: <551FE5B8.2A5F8942.00159EE9@cs.com> mark, i am sure we can find something for you to do...several cars likely need co-drivers. off track events in the village is a big part of this weekend. your advice to visit the website is a good one. triumphs will be favored. but space is limited and early registration is advised. grandprixfestival.com joe a >Greetings all, > > Its been quite a while since I dove into the archives to see what's been going on, been a busy summer. I was very happy to see all the activities around next year's Watkins Glen event. I live in Ithaca 20 minutes away so if there is anything I can help with in terms of local knowledge (e.g. cops tolerate 10 mph over above 45mph...), please feel free to contact me if I can help. I also have parts in case someone has "issues" that weekend. > > Had a great time last year meeting FOTrs gathered around any marquis ending in ...mph or ...ote. Looking forward to meeting more of you this year. > > Great advice to check out www.grandprixfestival.com I found room in the kana event, 20 cars only, for something less life threatening. > > I have a vintage Harley that needs a ride to southern california this summer if anyone has room on the trip back. Would be happy to help with expenses... > > I also have a complete stock engine I am going to sell this winter. Anyone venture a guess at how much to ask and a good venue to sell it. Its a good running 83mm std with negligable cylinder ridges, good compression and high port head. Valve cover to oil pan, water pump housing to flywheel, including manifold, no carbs. > > Best regards to all, > > Mark Eginton > mee23 at cornell.edu > > > >--------------------------------- >Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jeff_durant at comcast.net Sun Dec 9 13:34:06 2007 From: jeff_durant at comcast.net (jeff_durant at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 20:34:06 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 rod needed In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0712091055u759043a6o622e531a9216f7f1@mail.gmail.com> References: <8cbd782d0712091055u759043a6o622e531a9216f7f1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <578512221-1197232591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-83594374-@bxe122.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Chuck, I'll throw one in the package with the PI parts. I've plenty. Jeff Durant Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Chuck Arnold" Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 10:55:04 To:Friends , Triumph <6pack at autox.team.net> Subject: [Fot] TR6 rod needed I need on TR6 rod -- the variety that does not have the hole in the body. Have 5, need one more [duh]. Anybody have one to spare/sell? Thanks -- Chuck Arnold Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Sun Dec 9 14:55:28 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 15:55:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] rear hubs Message-ID: <200712092155.lB9Ltaxn445885@ns3.geneseo.net> Hey Allen -- big discussion on the FOT about rear hubs for the TR6. What do you do for unbreakable rear hubs? uncle jack From awashatko at wi.rr.com Sun Dec 9 16:16:20 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 17:16:20 -0600 Subject: [Fot] rear hubs In-Reply-To: <200712092155.lB9Ltaxn445885@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200712092155.lB9Ltaxn445885@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: Uncle Jack, OK...my two cents. I'm using the hubs provided by David Wingett who has already weighed in. I made this modification awhile ago when I changed to tires that provided more "stick" and transferred much more load to the hubs. They have worked well without issue. Thank you David. I would probably recommend using the setup Goodparts is now offering. As you know, David seems to be out of the business of providing hubs. Richard's setup offers the CV joints, rated axles and easier to source replacement parts (bearings). Overall, a very complete system. His quality is always top notch. Allen On Dec 9, 2007, at 3:55 PM, Jack W. Drews wrote: > Hey Allen -- big discussion on the FOT about rear hubs for the TR6. > What do you do for unbreakable rear hubs? > > uncle jack > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 10 09:41:07 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:41:07 EST Subject: [Fot] Greg (Lunker) Hilyer has thrown his hat into the ring-THE GLEN 2008 Message-ID: FoT Greg has confirmed his plan to travel from New Mexico to New York with his TR3......Tom Strange...you can add GREG to the burgeoning excel spreadsheet as an entrant..... lunkercars at earthlink.net New FOT Robert P Smith is giving some consideration to making the trip from the BIG ISLAND with his young son, at least to attend. It's a party worth the plane ticket. Joe A From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 10 09:48:00 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:48:00 EST Subject: [Fot] Ted Schumacher- dba TSI Contribution to FOT Message-ID: FOT Ted recently sent a very generous check to the Friends of Triumph, by skimming his profit off of FOT Shirt Sales. I am not sure of what Ted's plans will be for the 'official' WATKINS GLEN SHIRT for 2008, but it will sort itself out as we know more about what we are going to do for shirts and their associated costs and price. Thank you to TSI for supporting the FOT coffers. Joe A From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Tue Dec 11 08:18:23 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:18:23 -0600 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound In-Reply-To: <475e9c67.249.4e0b.21914@cogeco.ca> References: <475e9c67.249.4e0b.21914@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <200712111518.lBBFIWtH053505@ns3.geneseo.net> Q: At 08:19 AM 12/11/2007, amcewen2 at cogeco.ca wrote: Just curious, does anybody know what the period road tests recorded for the top speed of the TR3? I remember reading the early Top speed model did a high speed run to 125mph but I'm assuming that was with wheel spats and no windscreen etc.. I'm curious about the standard car. Also does anybody have a recording of the horn? (mp3 or wav format). Thanks, Art. A. According to Road and Track of the era, stats went like this: TR2,1954 Top speed 95.9 no overdrive 103.8 in OD TR3 - 1956- one more ft lb torque R & T recorded top end at 105 Factory said 108 0-60 12 sec TR4 was leaps and bounds better (haha) factory said top end 110 0 - 60 10.5 By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville 140 hp on the engine dyno Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better salt conditions. It's amusing to me that the technical problems encountered were flywheel bolts shearing off and oil pump drive failure -- both of these problems are still common on vintage race cars if you don't use ARP bolts to hold on the flywheel and if you don't radius the ears on the oil pump. These problems almost never occur on street cars. >_______________________________________________ > >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >http://www.vtr.org > > >Triumphs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > >http://www.team.net/archive From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Dec 11 08:32:05 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:32:05 EST Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound Message-ID: In a message dated 12/11/2007 9:19:36 AM Central Standard Time, vinttr4 at geneseo.net writes: > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > 140 hp on the engine dyno > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > salt conditions. > > Amici... Watched The World's Fastest Indian on Showtime last night. Neat movie. Sure made me think of all of the 'backyard' engineers/mechanics we have as members of the FOT. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From kaskas at cox.net Tue Dec 11 09:06:13 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:06:13 -0800 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound References: <475e9c67.249.4e0b.21914@cogeco.ca> <200712111518.lBBFIWtH053505@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <002701c83c0f$c0b5b910$3f0ec548@RW> Just a bit of info on our Salt Flats run, that 128.2 MPH was an average speed over the timed section of 1/4 mile. and also the Salt is at 4000 feet altitude. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack W. Drews" To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 7:18 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > Q: > > At 08:19 AM 12/11/2007, amcewen2 at cogeco.ca wrote: > Just curious, does anybody know what the period road tests recorded > for the top speed of the TR3? I remember reading > the early Top speed model did a high speed run to 125mph but I'm > assuming that was with wheel spats and no windscreen etc.. I'm > curious about the standard car. > > Also does anybody have a recording of the horn? (mp3 or wav format). > > Thanks, > > Art. > > A. > > According to Road and Track of the era, stats went like this: > > TR2,1954 > > Top speed 95.9 no overdrive > 103.8 in OD > > TR3 - 1956- one more ft lb torque > R & T recorded top end at 105 > Factory said 108 > 0-60 12 sec > > TR4 was leaps and bounds better (haha) > factory said top end 110 > 0 - 60 10.5 > > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > 140 hp on the engine dyno > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > salt conditions. > > It's amusing to me that the technical problems encountered were > flywheel bolts shearing off and oil pump drive failure -- both of > these problems are still common on vintage race cars if you don't use > ARP bolts to hold on the flywheel and if you don't radius the ears on > the oil pump. These problems almost never occur on street cars. > > >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >>http://www.vtr.org >> >> >>Triumphs at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs >> >>http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Tue Dec 11 10:18:45 2007 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:18:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR3A Engine sound References: <475e9c67.249.4e0b.21914@cogeco.ca> <200712111518.lBBFIWtH053505@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <001c01c83c19$e3dab7b0$6401a8c0@Elliott> I don't have the horn sound, but the "web-mechanic" (sort of like a web master but better) for the web site of the Montreal Triumph Club has the sound of the 4-cylinder TR engine when you go there and also onto some of the menus on the left side. Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A, Montreal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack W. Drews" To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > Q: > > At 08:19 AM 12/11/2007, amcewen2 at cogeco.ca wrote: > Just curious, does anybody know what the period road tests recorded > for the top speed of the TR3? I remember reading > the early Top speed model did a high speed run to 125mph but I'm > assuming that was with wheel spats and no windscreen etc.. I'm > curious about the standard car. > > Also does anybody have a recording of the horn? (mp3 or wav format). > > Thanks, > > Art. > > A. > > According to Road and Track of the era, stats went like this: > > TR2,1954 > > Top speed 95.9 no overdrive > 103.8 in OD > > TR3 - 1956- one more ft lb torque > R & T recorded top end at 105 > Factory said 108 > 0-60 12 sec > > TR4 was leaps and bounds better (haha) > factory said top end 110 > 0 - 60 10.5 > > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > 140 hp on the engine dyno > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > salt conditions. > > It's amusing to me that the technical problems encountered were > flywheel bolts shearing off and oil pump drive failure -- both of > these problems are still common on vintage race cars if you don't use > ARP bolts to hold on the flywheel and if you don't radius the ears on > the oil pump. These problems almost never occur on street cars. > > >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >>This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >>http://www.vtr.org >> >> >>Triumphs at autox.team.net >>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs >> >>http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Tue Dec 11 10:21:04 2007 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:21:04 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fw: TR3A Engine sound Message-ID: <002a01c83c1a$387e32b0$6401a8c0@Elliott> I forgot to add the link. http://www.rucompatible.com/triumphmtl/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> To: "Jack W. Drews" ; ; Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:18 PM Subject: TR3A Engine sound >I don't have the horn sound, but the "web-mechanic" (sort of like a web >master but better) for the web site of the Montreal Triumph Club has the >sound of the 4-cylinder TR engine when you go there and also onto some of >the menus on the left side. > > Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A, Montreal > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack W. Drews" > To: ; ; > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:18 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > > >> Q: >> >> At 08:19 AM 12/11/2007, amcewen2 at cogeco.ca wrote: >> Just curious, does anybody know what the period road tests recorded >> for the top speed of the TR3? I remember reading >> the early Top speed model did a high speed run to 125mph but I'm >> assuming that was with wheel spats and no windscreen etc.. I'm >> curious about the standard car. >> >> Also does anybody have a recording of the horn? (mp3 or wav format). >> >> Thanks, >> >> Art. >> >> A. >> >> According to Road and Track of the era, stats went like this: >> >> TR2,1954 >> >> Top speed 95.9 no overdrive >> 103.8 in OD >> >> TR3 - 1956- one more ft lb torque >> R & T recorded top end at 105 >> Factory said 108 >> 0-60 12 sec >> >> TR4 was leaps and bounds better (haha) >> factory said top end 110 >> 0 - 60 10.5 >> >> By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville >> 140 hp on the engine dyno >> Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with >> SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better >> salt conditions. >> >> It's amusing to me that the technical problems encountered were >> flywheel bolts shearing off and oil pump drive failure -- both of >> these problems are still common on vintage race cars if you don't use >> ARP bolts to hold on the flywheel and if you don't radius the ears on >> the oil pump. These problems almost never occur on street cars. >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>> >>>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>>This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >>>http://www.vtr.org >>> >>> >>>Triumphs at autox.team.net >>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs >>> >>>http://www.team.net/archive >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tlizzard at msn.com Tue Dec 11 10:27:52 2007 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:27:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound References: Message-ID: Not sure about in the day, but my TR3A street car, with Webers, a header, 2.2 liner kit, 3.7 axle and O.D. did an honest 111 mph once. Felt like 200... Hehe. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: BillDentin at aol.com To: vinttr4 at geneseo.net ; amcewen2 at cogeco.ca ; triumphs at autox.team.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound In a message dated 12/11/2007 9:19:36 AM Central Standard Time, vinttr4 at geneseo.net writes: > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > 140 hp on the engine dyno > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > salt conditions. > > Amici... Watched The World's Fastest Indian on Showtime last night. Neat movie. Sure made me think of all of the 'backyard' engineers/mechanics we have as members of the FOT. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From koblinger at verizon.net Tue Dec 11 11:11:12 2007 From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:11:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound Message-ID: <18080413.18664781197396672854.JavaMail.root@vms170.mailsrvcs.net> >From: Kas Kastner Kas, I've always wondered, do cars at Bonneville ever really hook-up, or are you getting wheel spin all the way down the course? Cheers, Kurt O. >Date: 2007/12/11 Tue AM 10:06:13 CST >To: amcewen2 at cogeco.ca, triumphs at autox.team.net, fot at autox.team.net, "Jack W. Drews" >Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound >Just a bit of info on our Salt Flats run, that 128.2 MPH was an average >speed over the timed section of 1/4 mile. and also the Salt is at 4000 feet >altitude. From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 11 11:58:56 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:58:56 -0800 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound References: Message-ID: With a 3.7 axle on Hoosier Speedsters I saw 6400 RPM at Brainerd in turn two, tucked in behind a Porsche whale tail with an added wing. Of course I was kind of busy, but it sure was fun. By my calculations that's 133, but I might have made an error. I think that's the fastest I've ever gone in Peyote, though I was also out of revs in the back straight at VIR and the front straight at Road Atlanta -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Terry Stetler Sent: Tue 12/11/2007 9:27 AM To: vinttr4 at geneseo.net; amcewen2 at cogeco.ca; triumphs at autox.team.net; fot at autox.team.net; BillDentin at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound Not sure about in the day, but my TR3A street car, with Webers, a header, 2.2 liner kit, 3.7 axle and O.D. did an honest 111 mph once. Felt like 200... Hehe. Terry Stetler ----- Original Message ----- From: BillDentin at aol.com To: vinttr4 at geneseo.net ; amcewen2 at cogeco.ca ; triumphs at autox.team.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound In a message dated 12/11/2007 9:19:36 AM Central Standard Time, vinttr4 at geneseo.net writes: > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > 140 hp on the engine dyno > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > salt conditions. > > Amici... Watched The World's Fastest Indian on Showtime last night. Neat movie. Sure made me think of all of the 'backyard' engineers/mechanics we have as members of the FOT. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From hottr6 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 11 12:27:12 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:27:12 -0500 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound Message-ID: I didn't know the TR3 needed a horn as it is not fast enough to get out of its own way. Jus kiddin'......... ;) I'm snowed in today, so I'm not moving very fast either. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007 From Gt6steve at aol.com Tue Dec 11 13:58:53 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:58:53 EST Subject: [Fot] Tubing for Triumph Message-ID: Hey tube fetishists, I need some help on a couple things. Firstly being hydraulic style tubing. Have you any thoughts on replacing the braided steel lines running to my drysump tank with hard steel or aluminum lines. I'm thinking the area in the cockpit can be cleaned up with hard lines. I'm looking at two runs of 3/4 (-12) from the firewall in front of the driver to the right rear of the passenger seat well. Second search is for header tubing. Where do we buy the thinwall tube for making headers? Just mils steel, I'll leave the Inconel to the experts. Thanx in advance, Steve Smith **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From triosan at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 14:05:26 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:05:26 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Tubing for Triumph In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8cbd782d0712111305r6dddd111pcc6e8a5ab65c96a@mail.gmail.com> Steve, I have had good results with Burns Stainless for tubing and for design. Talk to Casey. www.burnsstainless.com casey at burnsstainless.com On Dec 11, 2007 12:58 PM, wrote: > Hey tube fetishists, I need some help on a couple things. > > Firstly being hydraulic style tubing. Have you any thoughts on replacing the > braided steel lines running to my drysump tank with hard steel or aluminum > lines. I'm thinking the area in the cockpit can be cleaned up with hard lines. > I'm looking at two runs of 3/4 (-12) from the firewall in front of the driver > to the right rear of the passenger seat well. > > Second search is for header tubing. Where do we buy the thinwall tube for > making headers? Just mils steel, I'll leave the Inconel to the experts. > > Thanx in advance, Steve Smith > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From chasgee at aol.com Tue Dec 11 17:31:09 2007 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:31:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Tubing for Triumph In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA0A6D6CC33E8C-F40-3175@webmail-me12.sysops.aol.com> Steve, By a cheap V-8 header set from someone like Speedway or Summit.? A kit with all the bent tubes in the diameter you need.? This way you can cut to get the bends you need and weld it all together. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:58 pm Subject: [Fot] Tubing for Triumph Hey tube fetishists, I need some help on a couple things. Firstly being hydraulic style tubing. Have you any thoughts on replacing the braided steel lines running to my drysump tank with hard steel or aluminum lines. I'm thinking the area in the cockpit can be cleaned up with hard lines. I'm looking at two runs of 3/4 (-12) from the firewall in front of the driver to the right rear of the passenger seat well. Second search is for header tubing. Where do we buy the thinwall tube for making headers? Just mils steel, I'll leave the Inconel to the experts. Thanx in advance, Steve Smith **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com From Gt6steve at aol.com Tue Dec 11 18:57:12 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:57:12 EST Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Tubing for Triumph Message-ID: **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Return-path: From: Gt6steve at aol.com Full-name: Gt6steve Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:56:32 EST Subject: Re: [Fot] Tubing for Triumph To: Chasgee at aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10705 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Thanx Chuck, I'd forgotten Speedway. Last go'round I bought a box of "misbends". You're right. There's enough good bits in there to cobble up most anything. Are you and Mike up for a "road trip"? ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Wed Dec 12 00:53:28 2007 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoff Byrne) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:53:28 +1100 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fastest record we have in Aus is a TR3A doing 151mph down conrod straight at Bathurst BUT it is down hill with a very looong straight Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Terry Stetler" ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 5:58 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > With a 3.7 axle on Hoosier Speedsters I saw 6400 RPM at Brainerd in turn > two, > tucked in behind a Porsche whale tail with an added wing. Of course I was > kind > of busy, but it sure was fun. By my calculations that's 133, but I might > have > made an error. I think that's the fastest I've ever gone in Peyote, though > I > was also out of revs in the back straight at VIR and the front straight at > Road Atlanta > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Terry Stetler > Sent: Tue 12/11/2007 9:27 AM > To: vinttr4 at geneseo.net; amcewen2 at cogeco.ca; triumphs at autox.team.net; > fot at autox.team.net; BillDentin at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > > Not sure about in the day, but my TR3A street car, with Webers, a header, > 2.2 > liner kit, 3.7 axle and O.D. did an honest 111 mph once. > > Felt like 200... > > Hehe. > > Terry Stetler > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BillDentin at aol.com > To: vinttr4 at geneseo.net ; > amcewen2 at cogeco.ca ; > triumphs at autox.team.net ; > fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:32 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > > > In a message dated 12/11/2007 9:19:36 AM Central Standard Time, > vinttr4 at geneseo.net writes: > > > > By comparison, R & T reports on the Kastner TR4A at Bonneville > > 140 hp on the engine dyno > > Timed runs on the salt flats were 128.2 with Webers and 127 with > > SU's. The team felt that they could have gotten 135 mph with better > > salt conditions. > > > > > > Amici... > > Watched The World's Fastest Indian on Showtime last night. Neat movie. > Sure > made me think of all of the 'backyard' engineers/mechanics we have as > members > of the FOT. > > Bill (Damdinger) > > > ************************************** > See AOL's top rated > recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004 aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004>) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot stinfo/fot> > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Dec 12 07:03:45 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:03:45 EST Subject: [Fot] Offer: Alloy Head Lamp Replacements Decal Installed Message-ID: FoT, I am going to make up some sets of spun aluminum headlamp replacements with the P-700 Lucas Tripod decal installed...for a couple of FoT. Special Price....thought I should offer to everyone. Check in with me for price and picture, if you are interested. They are available at Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies, separately, too. Thanks N197tr4 at cs.com From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Wed Dec 12 07:03:49 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:03:49 -0500 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound References: Message-ID: <000001c83cc7$e8270950$0200a8c0@Desktop> OUCH! OK 3 guys its your turn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Ingate" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound >I didn't know the TR3 needed a horn as it is not fast enough > to get out of its own way. > > Jus kiddin'......... ;) > > I'm snowed in today, so I'm not moving very fast either. > > Shane Ingate in NM > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. > http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Wed Dec 12 07:05:35 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:05:35 -0500 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound Message-ID: <000801c83cc8$11917410$0200a8c0@Desktop> OUCH! OK 3 guys its your turn ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shane Ingate" > To: "Friends of Triumph" > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 2:27 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] [TR] TR3A top speed & horn sound > > >>I didn't know the TR3 needed a horn as it is not fast enough >> to get out of its own way. >> >> Jus kiddin'......... ;) >> >> I'm snowed in today, so I'm not moving very fast either. >> >> Shane Ingate in NM >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. >> http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007 >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Wed Dec 12 09:33:57 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:33:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Message-ID: <47600D75.1090709@bradakis.com> Tuesday the 11th was the 11th anniversary of this list. Thanks to you all who have made it what it is! mjb. From REK46 at aol.com Wed Dec 12 09:50:26 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:50:26 EST Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Message-ID: and my birthday.........50 plus 11 ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From spitfiresuz at 141.com Wed Dec 12 10:24:03 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:24:03 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Message-ID: <380-220071231217243453@M2W012.mail2web.com> And especially here's to YOU, Mark! You're the one who made it so we could make it what it is! Happy Anniversary everyone! Keep Triumphing, Susan :) Original Message: ----------------- From: Mark J. Bradakis mark at bradakis.com Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:33:57 -0700 To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Tuesday the 11th was the 11th anniversary of this list. Thanks to you all who have made it what it is! mjb. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE  Free email based on Microsoft. Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE From emanteno at comcast.net Wed Dec 12 10:42:34 2007 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:42:34 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Message-ID: <121220071742.25972.47601D8A00077D8E000065742200735446970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "spitfiresuz at 141.com" > And especially here's to YOU, Mark! THANKS, Mark, for making it happen. From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Wed Dec 12 11:09:33 2007 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (JRH) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:09:33 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! References: <121220071742.25972.47601D8A00077D8E000065742200735446970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <03f901c83cea$276196e0$a6aee246@gcllawyers.local> Irv "emanteno" Korey wrote: >>> Here's to us! >> And especially here's to YOU, Mark! > THANKS, Mark, for making it happen. Thanks Indeed! And a special thanks for reminding me how old I am :-) Jim Hill Triumph TR-6 Ford Prowler From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Dec 12 16:15:42 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:15:42 EST Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! Message-ID: Time goes by quickly when you are alive. Thanks Mark! Joe A > Tuesday the 11th was the 11th anniversary of this list. Thanks to you > all who have made it what it is! > > mjb. > From don at carterdesignassociates.com Wed Dec 12 16:35:56 2007 From: don at carterdesignassociates.com (Don Carter) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:35:56 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003c01c83d17$c147cef0$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> Project well done, MJB. Without this resource it would be difficult for me to keep a couple or three Triumphs going. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com -> Tuesday the 11th was the 11th anniversary of this list. Thanks to you > all who have made it what it is! > > mjb. > Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From don at carterdesignassociates.com Wed Dec 12 16:46:15 2007 From: don at carterdesignassociates.com (Don Carter) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:46:15 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003f01c83d19$3241d0f0$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> Happy to All!!! A few weeks ago I asked for diagnostic help with a right front brake that was locking up on me. I was trying to blame everything on parts that I hadn't already replaced, and refused to blame any new parts like the caliper itself. It was the caliper itself. Once again proving the FOT gang was right and parts can be faulty even if new. Thanks, Joe A and John Lye for the help. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rjl at gt-classics.com Wed Dec 12 19:25:29 2007 From: rjl at gt-classics.com (R. John Lye) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:25:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Here's to us! In-Reply-To: <47600D75.1090709@bradakis.com> References: <47600D75.1090709@bradakis.com> Message-ID: At 11:33 AM 12/12/2007, Mark J. Bradakis wrote: >Tuesday the 11th was the 11th anniversary of this list. Thanks to you >all who have made it what it is! Wow, has it really been that long since that evening at Mid-Ohio, when Joe A. and I first talked about an idea that he had, and I knew just the person who could make it happen? Amazing. Good job, Mark. Its been a great resource all these years. R. John Lye rjl6n at cstone.net From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Wed Dec 12 21:53:31 2007 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:53:31 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FW: part availablity Message-ID: <000501c83d44$1bf15390$6401a8c0@blake1> FYI I was having trouble finding a steering shaft coupler or U-joint in the 9/16  36 size used on the TR4 rack. If anyone needs one, the part numbers for Borgeson Univeral are below. I am not sure for what other models this might apply. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: Gil Evans [mailto:Gil at borgeson.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 7:08 AM To: Greg & Alison Blake Subject: RE: part availablity Greg, We have this in a coupler or a u-joint. The coupler is Part No. 311200 at $19.73, the u-joint is Part No. 011264 at $72.70. Just give us a call at 860-482-8283 if you'd like to order. We accept Visa, Mastercard, and Discover credit cards and both items are in stock. Thanks, Gil Evans Borgeson Universal Co. _____ From: Greg & Alison Blake [mailto:ablake2 at austin.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:57 AM To: Gil Evans Subject: part availablity I need a 9/16 x 36 spline with a > smooth bore on the other end this can be a coupler or U joint. Do you have this part and how much are they and can I order it direct? Thanks, Greg From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Wed Dec 12 21:26:24 2007 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:26:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] 2008 North-Atlantic Production Car Challenge Message-ID: <908718.92064.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> FOT, I am sending out an email the members of the list to enlist the assistance of this well connected group of triumph enthusiasts. As many know (others may not), I race an HP classed MKII spitfire with the SCCA. I have been running the car since a complete "resurrection" back in 2004. Over the course of 2007, I experienced a decline in attendance at many of the great races in the Northeast division of the SCCA. The production classes were affected for several reasons, and over the last couple months the most notable objection (the run group) was addressed and changes were made and 2008 should be better. These changes are specific to the upper northeast and I am excited about seeing an improvement in attendance in the coming year. While I had some "down time" I thought about an additional way to improve attendance at the regional races in the northeast and I developed a new production car series that has just been launched to the current drivers earlier this week. Now that the current drivers have been contacted, I wanted to introduce the series to the members of the FOT. My reason is that we all know a driver who has a car that has been taking up space in a barn for several years and just needs that little push to bring the car out. Now, I realize the majority of the participants of FOT have triumphs (obviously), but we may have friends with triumphs just itching to get back on the track as well as friends with other marques. My request is that if anyone knows a driver/ car in the northeast that would be interested in participating or someone on the list that is interested in learning more, please direct those individuals to www.production-car.com this website is the official website of the North-Atlantic Production Car Challenge. Partial details about the series can be found on the website with more coming soon. And I encourage those interested in following SCCA racing in the NEDIV to stay tuned to the website throughout the season. For anyone interested, there are contingency/ sponsorship opportunities available. Please feel free to contact me off list if anyone is interested in discussing such opportunities. I am very excited about the series and the feedback so far has been very favorable. thanks for your time Jay R. Creel #44 Jaxon Motorsports Triumph Spitfire ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From BillB at bnj.com Wed Dec 12 23:08:26 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:08:26 -0800 Subject: [Fot] FW: part availablity References: <000501c83d44$1bf15390$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: I just got finished building a complete Borgeson steering system for Peyote. The old steering shaft and coupler was pretty dodgy, especially considering the speeds that Peyote is capable of. It is funny to look at the steering systems that we depend on in our cars and what's considered minimally acceptable in a modern race car. At the very least consider replacing all the grade eight (or less!!) bolts with properly sized and shouldered aircraft bolts. The pinch bolt on my universal failed when I loosened it. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Greg & Alison Blake Sent: Wed 12/12/2007 8:53 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] FW: part availablity FYI I was having trouble finding a steering shaft coupler or U-joint in the 9/16  36 size used on the TR4 rack. If anyone needs one, the part numbers for Borgeson Univeral are below. I am not sure for what other models this might apply. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: Gil Evans [mailto:Gil at borgeson.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 7:08 AM To: Greg & Alison Blake Subject: RE: part availablity Greg, We have this in a coupler or a u-joint. The coupler is Part No. 311200 at $19.73, the u-joint is Part No. 011264 at $72.70. Just give us a call at 860-482-8283 if you'd like to order. We accept Visa, Mastercard, and Discover credit cards and both items are in stock. Thanks, Gil Evans Borgeson Universal Co. _____ From: Greg & Alison Blake [mailto:ablake2 at austin.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:57 AM To: Gil Evans Subject: part availablity I need a 9/16 x 36 spline with a > smooth bore on the other end this can be a coupler or U joint. Do you have this part and how much are they and can I order it direct? Thanks, Greg Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Dec 13 09:16:07 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:16:07 EST Subject: [Fot] FoT Volunteer Needed for Watkins Glen Message-ID: List: It appears that we will have a couple VIP folks coming to The Glen. And their very special Triumph. I am not looking for a full time 'baby sitter', but some non racing FoT(s) who knows the ropes at the Glen. Especially, the downtown Village Activites. Our GUESTs will have their own cars, for transportation and will not need major hand holding. Reservations are being made for them at the Hampton Inn in Painted Post. There will be specific places that they will need to be and there will be some media involvement. (no it's not Paul Newman) And we will need to insure that the Triumph is secured and protected at all times. Attn: Tom Strange & WPTA: We will provide a place for it to be displayed at the FoT Hospitality Area. Thanks, Joe From REK46 at aol.com Thu Dec 13 09:18:49 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:18:49 EST Subject: [Fot] FoT Volunteer Needed for Watkins Glen Message-ID: now we're all properly titillated ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Dec 13 19:47:14 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:47:14 EST Subject: [Fot] 87MM Cylinder Liners-Anybody need an odd one or two liners? Message-ID: List: I just ran a small lot of Cylinder Liners. I have three liners for a short set. They are liners bored from 86MM to 87MM and honed. Ready to install. If someone needs just one or two to replace damaged or worn liner(s), contact me off list. If you want a set bored to your spec, I can tell you where to send them. NFI. We have done several sets recently for various midwest folks...slow period for this performance engine place....quick turn around. Joe A From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Thu Dec 13 23:53:57 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:53:57 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: <001c01c83e1e$19c74590$0502a8c0@desktop> FoT, I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for a little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR of about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge flywheel. I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will probably use Venolia pistons. Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting rod from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is better? Thanks Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net Fri Dec 14 06:31:27 2007 From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:31:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: <380-2200712514133127729@earthlink.net> Charly Try these http//www.pauter.com/ , http//www.jepistons.com/ Chip > [Original Message] > From: Charly Mitchel > To: Friends ; Chuck Arnold > Date: 12/14/2007 1:54:14 AM > Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild > > FoT, > I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for a > little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR of > about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge flywheel. > I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. > I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will probably use > Venolia pistons. > Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting rod > from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is > better? > Thanks > Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.1/1183 - Release Date: 12/13/2007 9:15 AM From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Fri Dec 14 06:40:06 2007 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 05:40:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Dean Tetterton Message-ID: <763689.93902.qm@web81706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dean - can you shoot me an email Thanks Dennis From cwn74 at aol.com Fri Dec 14 09:04:29 2007 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:04:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FoT Volunteer Needed for Watkins Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <010301c83e6b$0200d190$1442a8c0@semperon3400> Joe, I have been to the last 3 or 4 Zippo's at the Glen as crew for an MGTD that has participated in the downtown event on Friday for the race reenactment. As an SCCA marshal of 35+ years I also know many of the local volunteer folks that are downtown (and at the track) making it happen. I would also be able to tune them in to our needs if necessary. My MGTD friend may not be in attendance for 2008 and if so I can offer my assistance. If so, I could arrive on Wednesday or Thursday depending on needs. Would I need to stay at the location of the people in question? Let me know what is needed and I hope to help out! Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." From BillB at bnj.com Fri Dec 14 10:11:31 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:11:31 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Peyote Progress References: Message-ID: I've had a few questions about progress on Peyote, so I'm getting a little more serious about documenting the process of sticking the poor crushed bugger back together. Here's the latest. http://www.allaluminumtour.com/ From hottr6 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 14 12:32:37 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:32:37 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: Charly Mitchell asked: > I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for a > little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR of > about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge flywheel. > I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. > I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will probably use > Venolia pistons. > Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting rod > from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is > better? Stock crankshaft!!! =80 Your best investment is first cross-drilling the crank and then have it nitrided. Then I would throw money into reducing the reciprocating weight. Shane Ingate, "reliability and strength first", in NM. _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec From jaboruch at netzero.net Fri Dec 14 14:53:19 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:53:19 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: <20071214.165319.3323.0@webmail01.dca.untd.com> I have been using Pauter rods in may TR3 and they have worked very well. Priced much lower than Carillos, but made from the same steel and same forge as Carillos. Joe(B) -- "U K MOTORSPORTS" wrote: Charly Try these http//www.pauter.com/ , http//www.jepistons.com/ Chip > [Original Message] > From: Charly Mitchel > To: Friends ; Chuck Arnold > Date: 12/14/2007 1:54:14 AM > Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild > > FoT, > I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for a > little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR of > about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge flywheel. > I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. > I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will probably use > Venolia pistons. > Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting rod > from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is > better? > Thanks > Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.1/1183 - Release Date: 12/13/2007 9:15 AM Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Click to shop and compare great deals on trucks. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlMsqkSpl6uP1OgDoZYd9CvJ JJh5CJFTjeDThQCGzr5RbEth/ From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Fri Dec 14 17:06:29 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:06:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild In-Reply-To: <001c01c83e1e$19c74590$0502a8c0@desktop> References: <001c01c83e1e$19c74590$0502a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <47631A85.8000500@cyberspeedway.net> Charly, The TR6 rod is fine if you follow Kas' comp prep instructions and shot peen them. We used to shift at 7600 rpm and the rods never gave a problem. Carrillo rods used to use 1/4" rod bolts and the only people I know who broke TR6 rods were Carrillo users. Carrillo did this because they didn't/wouldn't split the rods on a diagonal and there isn't any room for bigger bolts on a conventional pattern rod due to the small bore of a TR6. I had talked with Crower at one point and they thought they could use 9/32" or 5/16" bolts. I also investigated Pauter and at the time they thought they could do a diagonal split rod. The piston acceleration on a TR6 is brutal because of the long stroke short rod combination. At 7000 rpm it is about the same as a 4" x 3" small block Chevy at 10,000 rpm. First choice for pistons is Cosworth. We ran one set for 12 years, 6-8 races a year. Arias is good too but the Cosworths fit the best at temperature. Greg Lund Charly Mitchel wrote: > FoT, > I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for a > little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR of > about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge flywheel. > I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. > I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will probably use > Venolia pistons. > Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting rod > from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is > better? > Thanks > Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Fri Dec 14 17:29:13 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:29:13 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire 1500 prep Message-ID: <20071214.172914.3908.2.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Greetings all, My neighbor bought my '76 Spitfire from me. It's the one which expired with the #3 rod hammering its bearings into a flaky, blue ring. He & his brother are bringing it back to life, and I'd like to get them some details on improving 1500 bottom end reliability. They are going pretty much stock/street, I do not think they will go for 'scrap it & get a 1296'. I didn't seem to be able to access anything on the FoT website. Thanks in advance. Merry Christmas, Bill From awashatko at wi.rr.com Fri Dec 14 18:31:54 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:31:54 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell Message-ID: <321d1942dc33eae060d400e5a11ff4b7@wi.rr.com> FoT, Will be replacing the original fuel cell that my TR6 came with. It has no identification as to the manufacturer. Which manufacturers are currently being recommended from a quality and price point of view? I'm looking at a 10 gal. capacity. Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net Fri Dec 14 18:47:57 2007 From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:47:57 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell Message-ID: <380-220071261514757801@earthlink.net> Allen...try Fuel Safe or ATL...Chip > [Original Message] > From: Allen Washatko > To: Friends of Triumph > Date: 12/14/2007 8:31:56 PM > Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell > > FoT, > > Will be replacing the original fuel cell that my TR6 came with. It has > no identification as to the manufacturer. Which manufacturers are > currently being recommended from a quality and price point of view? I'm > looking at a 10 gal. capacity. > > Allen > > A l l e n W a s h a t k o > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.2/1184 - Release Date: 12/14/2007 11:29 AM From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Dec 14 20:09:59 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:09:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild References: <001c01c83e1e$19c74590$0502a8c0@desktop> <47631A85.8000500@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <001701c83ec7$fa8d2ff0$0502a8c0@desktop> Greg, great information. I've looked in to getting Venolia pistons at about $100 a piece and I've been thinking along the lines of using the stock rods. I have the whole selection of Kas' books and plan to do the lightening as he recommends. Where do I find info on the Cosworth pistons? Are they available in the USA? Thanks, Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "greg" To: "Charly Mitchel" Cc: "FOT LIST" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild > Charly, > The TR6 rod is fine if you follow Kas' comp prep instructions and > shot peen them. We used to shift at 7600 rpm and the rods never gave a > problem. Carrillo rods used to use 1/4" rod bolts and the only people I > know who broke TR6 rods were Carrillo users. Carrillo did this because > they didn't/wouldn't split the rods on a diagonal and there isn't any room > for bigger bolts on a conventional pattern rod due to the small bore of a > TR6. I had talked with Crower at one point and they thought they could use > 9/32" or 5/16" bolts. I also investigated Pauter and at the time they > thought they could do a diagonal split rod. The piston acceleration on a > TR6 is brutal because of the long stroke short rod combination. At 7000 > rpm it is about the same as a 4" x 3" small block Chevy at 10,000 rpm. > First choice for pistons is Cosworth. We ran one set for 12 years, > 6-8 races a year. Arias is good too but the Cosworths fit the best at > temperature. > Greg Lund > Charly Mitchel wrote: >> FoT, >> I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for >> a >> little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR >> of >> about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge >> flywheel. >> I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. >> I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will >> probably use >> Venolia pistons. >> Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting >> rod >> from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is >> better? >> Thanks >> Charly Mitchel >> TR6 #44 >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Dec 14 20:39:58 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:39:58 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild References: <001c01c83e1e$19c74590$0502a8c0@desktop><47631A85.8000500@cyberspeedway.net> <001701c83ec7$fa8d2ff0$0502a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <002001c83ecc$2b200b70$0502a8c0@desktop> I have another question about rods. Has anyone taken off to much material from the stock rods? How much was it? What happened to the rod? Just think ahead for my grinding process. Thanks Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charly Mitchel" To: "greg" Cc: "FOT LIST" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild > Greg, great information. I've looked in to getting Venolia pistons at > about > $100 a piece and I've been thinking along the lines of using the stock > rods. > I have the whole selection of Kas' books and plan to do the lightening as > he > recommends. Where do I find info on the Cosworth pistons? Are they > available in the USA? > Thanks, Charly Mitchel > TR6 #44 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "greg" > To: "Charly Mitchel" > Cc: "FOT LIST" > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 4:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild > > >> Charly, >> The TR6 rod is fine if you follow Kas' comp prep instructions and >> shot peen them. We used to shift at 7600 rpm and the rods never gave a >> problem. Carrillo rods used to use 1/4" rod bolts and the only people I >> know who broke TR6 rods were Carrillo users. Carrillo did this because >> they didn't/wouldn't split the rods on a diagonal and there isn't any >> room >> for bigger bolts on a conventional pattern rod due to the small bore of a >> TR6. I had talked with Crower at one point and they thought they could >> use >> 9/32" or 5/16" bolts. I also investigated Pauter and at the time they >> thought they could do a diagonal split rod. The piston acceleration on a >> TR6 is brutal because of the long stroke short rod combination. At 7000 >> rpm it is about the same as a 4" x 3" small block Chevy at 10,000 rpm. >> First choice for pistons is Cosworth. We ran one set for 12 years, >> 6-8 races a year. Arias is good too but the Cosworths fit the best at >> temperature. >> Greg Lund >> Charly Mitchel wrote: >>> FoT, >>> I'm starting the rebuild on another TR6 racing motor and I'm looking for >>> a >>> little input as to which parts I should be using. I'll be running a CR >>> of >>> about 11.5:1, have a KB cam and a stock crankshaft with Cambridge >>> flywheel. >>> I'll be using the Lucas PI setup and will have a Tilton clutch. >>> I know I'll need to go to some better pistons than stock and will >>> probably use >>> Venolia pistons. >>> Anybody got any suggestions on pistons and rods? Is there a connecting >>> rod >>> from another manufacturer that will take the place of a TR6 rod that is >>> better? >>> Thanks >>> Charly Mitchel >>> TR6 #44 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Fri Dec 14 21:48:17 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:48:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Spitfire 1500 prep In-Reply-To: <20071214.172914.3908.2.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <913189.86198.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bill: Get a copy of Kas's original competition prep manual for the 1500, or his newer Triumph prep manual sold by himself and Ted S. It is all clearly detailed within. As stated before...if it isn't number three it'll be number two; if it isn't now it'll be later :O( Thanks - Ed William G Rosenbach wrote: Greetings all, My neighbor bought my '76 Spitfire from me. It's the one which expired with the #3 rod hammering its bearings into a flaky, blue ring. He & his brother are bringing it back to life, and I'd like to get them some details on improving 1500 bottom end reliability. They are going pretty much stock/street, I do not think they will go for 'scrap it & get a 1296'. I didn't seem to be able to access anything on the FoT website. Thanks in advance. Merry Christmas, Bill Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tedtsimx at bright.net Sat Dec 15 09:21:57 2007 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:21:57 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel Message-ID: <4763FF25.3030008@bright.net> Greetings FOT list community. Here is a Christmas gift idea that also benefits FOT. A friend of mine, Sam Moses, wrote a book in 1986 called "Fast Guys, Rich Guys and Idiots". A chronicle of Sam's racing season. Sam was the motor sports editor for Sports Illustrated. Later on he became associate editor of AutoWeek. "Fast Guys" was sold out in 9 months and not reprinted. Sam has reprinted his book. The book sells for $21.95. But, Sam personalized a group of books for us. These are selling for $24.95 each. Postage approximately $4.75 by priority mail and should reach you in time for Christmas. $3 from each sale will go to the FOT coffers. Buy early, buy often. The following writeup sums up the book very well. I read the book in 1986 when it first came out and liked what I saw about Sam's competitive attitude. A phone call to Sam and 2 months later, he and I won a 24 hour showroom stock race. The write-up below is from the publisher. Thanks for your time. Ted Sam Moses, a motorsports writer for Sports Illustrated, was assigned to go racing and write about what happened. Fast Guys, Rich Guys, and Idiots is a personal odyssey that peers over the cliff of change and into the pit of obsession. From small-time races to glittery grands prix, it lays bare the greed, lust, and desperation of every driver for time behind the wheel and a faster car. It explains the perfectionism behind taking a turn at the limit and describes the intoxicating thrill of stealing down the Daytona backstraight at nearly two hundred miles an hour. The core of Mose's story takes place in the heartland of stock car racing, there he finds a spot on a team in Ether, North Carolina. The team's owner is a tough Louisiana oil man, its crew chief a lanky, laconic Texan, and its number-one driver a hairy-chested leadfoot who learned fast driving on backwoods Georgia roads, delivering beauty supplies in his Mustang. Crashes echo throughout the tale that follows, five of them the author's own. Sam Moses was a staff writer for Sports Illustrated for seventeen years on the motorsports beat. He worked as deputy editor at AutoWeek and received automotive journalisms prestigious Ken Purdy Award. He is the author of At All Costs: How a Crippled Ship and Two American Merchant Mariners Reversed the Tide of World War II. A candid, often hilarious account of [Mosess] experiences on the tracks, in the garages and in the gasoline alleys of the racing worldbut especially memorable is the wild variety of characters Moses met along the way. The book might have been written twenty years ago, but racing is still populated by fast guys, rich guys, and idiots.Brock Yates, Wall Street Journal -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 From tedtsimx at bright.net Sat Dec 15 09:26:06 2007 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:26:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FOT apparel Message-ID: <4764001E.9090807@bright.net> List members, the apparel item was dropped from,the previous email. After the first of the year, several apparel choices will be sent to the list. You will be able to view windshirts, polo's, button down denim or twill shirts and jackets. Sorry for dropped apparel content. Ted -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 From vintage.racer at comcast.net Sat Dec 15 09:54:07 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:54:07 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel In-Reply-To: <4763FF25.3030008@bright.net> References: <4763FF25.3030008@bright.net> Message-ID: <000001c83f3b$1c327bb0$54977310$@racer@comcast.net> Hi Ted: I'll take one. Check will go into today's mail (Saturday). Shipping address: Gary Horstkorta 263 South Sea Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thanks and Happy Holidays. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ted Schumacher Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 8:22 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel Greetings FOT list community. Here is a Christmas gift idea that also benefits FOT. A friend of mine, Sam Moses, wrote a book in 1986 called "Fast Guys, Rich Guys and Idiots". A chronicle of Sam's racing season. Sam was the motor sports editor for Sports Illustrated. Later on he became associate editor of AutoWeek. "Fast Guys" was sold out in 9 months and not reprinted. Sam has reprinted his book. The book sells for $21.95. But, Sam personalized a group of books for us. These are selling for $24.95 each. Postage approximately $4.75 by priority mail and should reach you in time for Christmas. $3 from each sale will go to the FOT coffers. Buy early, buy often. The following writeup sums up the book very well. I read the book in 1986 when it first came out and liked what I saw about Sam's competitive attitude. A phone call to Sam and 2 months later, he and I won a 24 hour showroom stock race. The write-up below is from the publisher. Thanks for your time. Ted Sam Moses, a motorsports writer for Sports Illustrated, was assigned to go racing and write about what happened. Fast Guys, Rich Guys, and Idiots is a personal odyssey that peers over the cliff of change and into the pit of obsession. From small-time races to glittery grands prix, it lays bare the greed, lust, and desperation of every driver for time behind the wheel and a faster car. It explains the perfectionism behind taking a turn at the limit and describes the intoxicating thrill of stealing down the Daytona backstraight at nearly two hundred miles an hour. The core of Mose's story takes place in the heartland of stock car racing, there he finds a spot on a team in Ether, North Carolina. The team's owner is a tough Louisiana oil man, its crew chief a lanky, laconic Texan, and its number-one driver a hairy-chested leadfoot who learned fast driving on backwoods Georgia roads, delivering beauty supplies in his Mustang. Crashes echo throughout the tale that follows, five of them the author's own. Sam Moses was a staff writer for Sports Illustrated for seventeen years on the motorsports beat. He worked as deputy editor at AutoWeek and received automotive journalisms prestigious Ken Purdy Award. He is the author of At All Costs: How a Crippled Ship and Two American Merchant Mariners Reversed the Tide of World War II. A candid, often hilarious account of [Mosess] experiences on the tracks, in the garages and in the gasoline alleys of the racing worldbut especially memorable is the wild variety of characters Moses met along the way. The book might have been written twenty years ago, but racing is still populated by fast guys, rich guys, and idiots.Brock Yates, Wall Street Journal -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 15 09:57:59 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:57:59 EST Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel Message-ID: Ted, I am always up for a book, especially on favorite subjects. Count in for one.. Joe Alexander 645 1st Street Jesup, Iowa 50648 Thanks for thinking about the FoT Coffers. Joe > Greetings FOT list community. Here is a Christmas gift idea that also > benefits FOT. A friend of mine, Sam Moses, wrote a book in 1986 called > "Fast Guys, Rich Guys and Idiots". A chronicle of Sam's racing season. > Sam was the motor sports editor for Sports Illustrated. Later on he > became associate editor of AutoWeek. "Fast Guys" was sold out in 9 > months and not reprinted. Sam has reprinted his book. The book sells for > $21.95. But, Sam personalized a group of books for us. These are selling > for $24.95 each. Postage approximately $4.75 by priority mail and should > reach you in time for Christmas. $3 from each sale will go to the FOT > coffers. Buy early, buy often. The following writeup sums up the book > very well. I read the book in 1986 when it first came out and liked what > I saw about Sam's competitive attitude. A phone call to Sam and 2 months > later, he and I won a 24 hour showroom stock race. The write-up below is > from the publisher. Thanks for your time. Ted > > Sam Moses, a motorsports writer for Sports Illustrated, was assigned to > go racing and write about what happened. Fast Guys, Rich Guys, and > Idiots is a personal odyssey that peers over the cliff of change and > into the pit of obsession. From small-time races to glittery grands > prix, it lays bare the greed, lust, and desperation of every driver for > time behind the wheel and a faster car. It explains the perfectionism > behind taking a turn at the limit and describes the intoxicating thrill > of stealing down the Daytona backstraight at nearly two hundred miles an > hour. > > The core of Mose's story takes place in the heartland of stock car > racing, there he finds a spot on a team in Ether, North Carolina. The > team's owner is a tough Louisiana oil man, its crew chief a lanky, > laconic Texan, and its number-one driver a hairy-chested leadfoot who > learned fast driving on backwoods Georgia roads, delivering beauty > supplies in his Mustang. Crashes echo throughout the tale that follows, > five of them the author's own. > > Sam Moses was a staff writer for Sports Illustrated for seventeen years > on the motorsports beat. He worked as deputy editor at AutoWeek and > received automotive journalisms prestigious Ken Purdy Award. He is the > author of At All Costs: How a Crippled Ship and Two American Merchant > Mariners Reversed the Tide of World War II. > > A candid, often hilarious account of [Mosess] experiences on the > tracks, in the garages and in the gasoline alleys of the racing > worldbut especially memorable is the wild variety of characters Moses > met along the way. The book might have been written twenty years ago, > but racing is still populated by fast guys, rich guys, and > idiots.Brock Yates, Wall Street Journal > > > -- > Ted Schumacher > tedtsimx at bright.net > http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com > 108 S. Jefferson St. > Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 > Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) > Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) > Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 15 10:08:42 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:08:42 EST Subject: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen Message-ID: Thanks are overdue to Ted Schumacher and Marty Sukey for coordinating FoT shirt sales, this year. I received a very nice check for $300 that went into the FOT Account. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------- Again, Ted, Marty, et. al. are coordinating shirts for the Watkins Glen FoT event. Like anything else, these things dont get done without this kind of involvement. Ted & Doris will also be vending at the Glen for about the 16th time. Almost as many times as Bill Dentinger has entered this event. This is going to be a huge Event for Triumphs. There are a lot of folks with Triumphs that are planning to come...as entrants or spectators. I know that the spectator population is going to be very largely affected by our presence. This is really Triumph Country. Joe A From mark at bradakis.com Sat Dec 15 10:11:58 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:11:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel In-Reply-To: <4763FF25.3030008@bright.net> References: <4763FF25.3030008@bright.net> Message-ID: <47640ADE.70603@bradakis.com> Gee, just moments ago my wife was asking me for some further ideas on what to get me for Christmas - what timing! And thanks to those who who recently contributed to Team.Net, I do appreciate it. I manage about 80 lists in around half a dozen different domains, and this one is my favorite. mjb. From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sat Dec 15 10:10:13 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:10:13 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question Message-ID: <001201c83f3d$5bca7910$0301000a@Chowdown> Which gooey product would you reccommend for freeze plug installation? Also, do you guys drill and safety wire the 2 engine block bolts that protrude into the cam bearing holes? ~Steve From BillB at bnj.com Sat Dec 15 10:10:59 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:10:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question References: <001201c83f3d$5bca7910$0301000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: JB Weld. and Yup. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Steve Belfer Sent: Sat 12/15/2007 9:10 AM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question Which gooey product would you reccommend for freeze plug installation? Also, do you guys drill and safety wire the 2 engine block bolts that protrude into the cam bearing holes? ~Steve Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sat Dec 15 10:15:45 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:15:45 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question References: <001201c83f3d$5bca7910$0301000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: <002c01c83f3e$213f06c0$0301000a@Chowdown> thanks guys. ~SB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Belfer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 9:10 AM Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question > Which gooey product would you reccommend for freeze plug installation? > > Also, do you guys drill and safety wire the 2 engine block bolts that > protrude > into the cam bearing holes? > > ~Steve > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From REK46 at aol.com Sat Dec 15 10:18:10 2007 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:18:10 EST Subject: [Fot] Freeze plug sealant question Message-ID: I've used Loctite " RC/609"...Cylindrical retaining compound for 35yrs an never had one fail...its in a red squeeze bottle like the Loctite threadlocker....easy and works if you press it in right ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 15 10:26:41 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:26:41 EST Subject: [Fot] Christmas gift idea and FOT apparel Message-ID: That reminds me...I have some money for you, from the FOT. I promised Brad & Susan I would do this and have never followed through. Procrastination. My bad. I can send check.....what is your address? Joe Alexander > Gee, just moments ago my wife was asking me for some further > ideas on what to get me for Christmas - what timing! > > And thanks to those who who recently contributed to Team.Net, > I do appreciate it. I manage about 80 lists in around half a dozen > different domains, and this one is my favorite. > > mjb. > From trmarty at hotmail.com Sat Dec 15 13:37:05 2007 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 15:37:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Joe, I was part of last couple of orders but it is actually Scott Janzen who has stepped up to the plate for the Glen shirts. I will help out as needed but it is Scott who should get the credit for the Glen shirts. Marty Sukey > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:08:42 -0500 > To: tedtsimx at bright.net; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen > > Thanks are overdue to Ted Schumacher and Marty Sukey for coordinating FoT > shirt sales, this year. I received a very nice check for $300 that went into the > FOT Account. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > --------------------------------------- > Again, Ted, Marty, et. al. are coordinating shirts for the Watkins Glen FoT > event. Like anything else, these things dont get done without this kind of > involvement. > > Ted & Doris will also be vending at the Glen for about the 16th time. Almost > as many times as Bill Dentinger has entered this event. > > This is going to be a huge Event for Triumphs. There are a lot of folks with > Triumphs that are planning to come...as entrants or spectators. I know that > the spectator population is going to be very largely affected by our presence. > This is really Triumph Country. > > Joe A > _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ From hottr6 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 15 13:47:51 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 15:47:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: Charly, FWIW, my Carillo rods with JE pistons (and bolts, wrist pins, rings) save a total of around 270g rotating mass per pot over lightened stock components, or a massive 375g/pot over stock components. In a TR6, that is 2.25kg off the rotating mass. I was advised AGAINST using Cosworth pistons, as they have a very short skirts. While maybe fine for a woman with long rods, this is an issue in my streetable car, but not as critical for a dedicated racer. Shane Ingate, relaxing after drywall work, in NM 2.25kg or nearly 5lbs off the rotating mass.> I've looked in to getting Venolia pistons at about > $100 a piece and I've been thinking along the lines of using the stock rods. > I have the whole selection of Kas' books and plan to do the lightening as he > recommends. Where do I find info on the Cosworth pistons? _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ From WEmery7451 at aol.com Sat Dec 15 17:14:41 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 19:14:41 EST Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild Message-ID: In a message dated 12/15/07 12:48:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, hottr6 at hotmail.com writes: << I was advised AGAINST using Cosworth pistons, as they have a very short sk irts. While maybe fine for a woman with long rods, this is an issue in my str eetable car, but not as critical for a dedicated racer.>> Jack Wheeler developed the Cosworth popup pistons and had Webber in Virginia make them. I assume that these were the pistons that were in his winning Runoff engine. I bought four of them many years ago, and am still using them today. I believe that Weber passed away, and his business was shut down. If I ruin one of these pistons, I probably wouldn't be able to replace it. You wouldn't save any rotating mass. These pistons are heavier than the Hepalite flat top pistons. ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From WEmery7451 at aol.com Sat Dec 15 17:24:06 2007 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 19:24:06 EST Subject: [Fot] TR6 motor rebuild (Addendum) Message-ID: These pistons were for the four banger tractor engines. ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From S.Janzen at comcast.net Sat Dec 15 22:47:09 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:47:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen References: Message-ID: <004101c83fa7$1a549be0$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Once the Glen shirts are complete and sold all that are involved can take credit. For now, thank you's are certainly due to those that put together shirts in 2007 and that resulted in funds going into this year's coffers - not me. Blame me in 2008 if the shirts are a dud! Scott Janzen ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" To: ; ; Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen > Thanks Joe, I was part of last couple of orders but it is actually Scott > Janzen who has stepped up to the plate for the Glen shirts. I will help > out as > needed but it is Scott who should get the credit for the Glen shirts. > > Marty Sukey > > > >> From: N197TR4 at cs.com >> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:08:42 -0500 >> To: tedtsimx at bright.net; fot at autox.team.net >> Subject: [Fot] Ted's FoT Shirts This Year, Next Year, and The Glen >> >> Thanks are overdue to Ted Schumacher and Marty Sukey for coordinating FoT >> shirt sales, this year. I received a very nice check for $300 that went > into the >> FOT Account. >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - >> --------------------------------------- >> Again, Ted, Marty, et. al. are coordinating shirts for the Watkins Glen >> FoT >> event. Like anything else, these things dont get done without this kind >> of >> involvement. >> >> Ted & Doris will also be vending at the Glen for about the 16th time. > Almost >> as many times as Bill Dentinger has entered this event. >> >> This is going to be a huge Event for Triumphs. There are a lot of folks >> with >> Triumphs that are planning to come...as entrants or spectators. I know >> that >> the spectator population is going to be very largely affected by our > presence. >> This is really Triumph Country. >> >> Joe A >> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox > 360 > Console. > http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sun Dec 16 08:26:51 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 07:26:51 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR3 Cam Core plug install Message-ID: <000601c83ff8$157a6040$0301000a@Chowdown> Just got a new dish-shaped cam core plug from Moss for my fresh engine rebuild. What's the step by step technique to putting one of these in? It can't be very tough but I've never been tought the technique. Here's my common-sense guess for how to do it. 1, of course, make sure the hole is clean and the surface is smooth. 2, rough up a little for the epoxy to grab 3, apply JB weld to the inside of the hole (don't get it on the cam bearings) 4. Gently tap the dish shaped plug (dish outwards) with a big socket into the hole. How far? until it settles up against the ledge? 5. hold a wooden handle as a drift on the center of the dish 6. give it a good whack to expand the plug in place 7. JB weld the edges. Whaddya think gang? From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 16 09:56:24 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:56:24 EST Subject: [Fot] Ted's Shirts at The Glen - Hampton Inn Message-ID: S.Janzen at comcast.net writes: > Once the Glen shirts are complete and sold all that are involved can take > credit. For now, thank you's are certainly due to those that put together > shirts in 2007 and that resulted in funds going into this year's coffers - > not me. Blame me in 2008 if the shirts are a dud! > Scott Janzen > FoT, Make no mistake. This is likely to the most important FoT Event we have had. The Brits at Mid-Ohio is hard to surpass, but overall I think this will be the new benchmark. A good shirt will let it live on with us. I expect the whole scene to be extremely special. It wont all be about racing, but everyone will appreciate being there. I got a call from Philadelphia; Dave S says in 2008 he expects 10 Triumphs to be be coming. These are VTR Guys. Expect a strong presence from the TRA group as well. Expect to get a lot of attention in the Paddock and Triumph Central (FoT Hospitality) Get your reservations in a the Hampton Inn, if you have not already. It looks like we may be filling this hotel up. If you need help let me know. (I am helping out the Brits that are coming, and one other far flung guy from Hawaii) Andrea Stowe is the manager and is our contact. If you are having difficulties with your reservations, ask for her, or let me know. Yes, this Hampton Inn is a bit off the track, but there is a great back road to The Glen, if you know where it is. Joe Alexander From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 16 10:13:23 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:13:23 EST Subject: [Fot] GARY FUQUA NOMINATION TO FOT Message-ID: FoT, This morning I received an email from Branson, Mo.'s Gary Fuqua. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Joe, Well, it is done. I have the TR 4!! We arrived about 4 or so and Gary fired her up. She sounded great so we shut her down and put her in my trailer.......... We are spending the night in Des Moines and will get back to Branson tomorrow afternoon around 4 or so. Cheers my friend, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO GSFuqua1 at aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- Gary Fuqua just purchased Gary Wiezorek's TR4, and will be racing with us in 2008. Wiezorek has not raced the car for five years, the last event being Mid-America Motorplex near Council Bluffs. We will miss 'GWIZ Racing', but Gary Fuqua will be a pleasant and worthy successor to Wiezorek in this pristine TR4. Therefore, I nominate Gary Fuqua to the FOT and invite him to introduce himself, when his name/address is tendered to the list. Joe Alexander From gwizracing at cfu.net Sun Dec 16 10:24:59 2007 From: gwizracing at cfu.net (Gary Wiezorek) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:24:59 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Second to Nomination Message-ID: <47655F6B.9050206@cfu.net> I second the nomination of Gary Fuqua to the FOT. It was very hard to part with TR4 #96 but Gary will take good care of it and drive it proudly. Gary Wiezorek From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Wed Dec 12 15:06:54 2007 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Terry & Cindy) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:06:54 +1000 Subject: [Fot] heat treatment advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071212220707.MQQO11935.oaamta06sl.mx.bigpond.com@Terry> I recall there was a lengthy posting some time ago about various heat treatments, especially as applied to crankshafts. Does anyone have a copy??> I'm particularly chasing real-world information on the tuftriding process Thanks, Terry From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Sun Dec 16 13:06:37 2007 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 13:06:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Cosworth pistons Message-ID: <4765854D.2080206@cyberspeedway.net> All, After Shane's comment I thought I would measure the piston length as I had never noticed the Cosworths as being overly short. The stock piston is 2.440" and the Cosworth is 2.230". The Cosworth is a full skirt design which is not much used today in racing engines. A modern Cup motor or Pro Stock motor use pistons which have skirts the size of a postage stamp. There is just enough material under the head to hold the rings and a short pin to make them extremely light. These modern pistons are CNC'd under the top to match whatever popup is on the top side further contributing to lightness. The Cosworths are an older design and I suspect a modern Ross or the like could be a little lighter. The new set I have left is 1977 vintage left over from PLN's team. Cosworth has probably updated by now but they are awfully expensive. They were $1,800 a set in 1992 the last time I checked which leaves room for about 3 sets from most other manufacturers. Greg Lund From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 16 22:23:47 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:23:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [DCTRA] I've heard of unrealistic prices on eBay, but this is ridiculous... Message-ID: <20071217052806.FFJG24689.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Guffaw! >Unless you think $29,500 is a decent price for a TR7 coupe... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1979-TRIUMPH-TR-7-NICEST-RESTORED-TR-7-IN-THE-WORLD_W0QQitemZ260188936438QQihZ016QQcategoryZ6469QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > >I would also expect "the nicest restored TR7 in the world" to not >have a rusted out exhaust system... plus the correct hood with the >double bump would be nice. > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Zane Horton From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Dec 17 08:08:40 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:08:40 EST Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... Message-ID: Amici... Geezz...I thought only us Yankees were known for boorish behavior. Our cousins set some records in VEGAS the weekend before last. Rumor has it 20-25,000 BRITS made the considerable trip from the UK for the Mayweather-Hatton boxing match. They brought their own bands with them and everything. The fight was held at the MGM GRAND, who went through 4,000 cases of beer on Saturday night (normally the BIGGEST night sees but 500 cases consumed). Several local bars were 'closed' because of unruly behavior by the BRITS (a VEGAS first). Later, newspaper headlines suggested such boorish behavior will not be missed in this 'wide-open' city. I watched a replay of the fight on HBO over the weekend. It was a good fight. Hatton is one tough kid, but Mayweather is a more skilled boxer, and in fact knocked Hatton out in the 10th. Bill (Damdinger) http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From Labs0808 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 08:19:58 2007 From: Labs0808 at aol.com (Labs0808 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:19:58 EST Subject: [Fot] Re Ambro 001 Message-ID: To any and all who would or could care I now decided to sell my car. I have owned the Ambro for 15 years the longest hold for me of any car. The has been exception thru time dicounting that it is a TR3 in wolves clothing. Something else has caught my eye so it is time, most of you know the car but if you have any question Regarding please drop me a note or call 612 759 6355. Ahh yes the price from what I have been hearing the small motor specials have been selling in 50 60 range a bargin for the history and style of this car. Hey this can be driving in any event anywhere in the world it is 001 no question asked. Comes with spares, log books, and drop clothes for the oil leakes. Anybody that wishes to jump in on the car please do I would like to see it stay in the US but heck the way the dollar is today this this would be a steal of shore. Thanks Doug Karon 612 759 6355 **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Mon Dec 17 08:42:41 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:42:41 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BC16942@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> We need to do something about the exchange rate. First our parts go up in price and now this. When will it end? Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 9:09 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... Amici... Geezz...I thought only us Yankees were known for boorish behavior. Our cousins set some records in VEGAS the weekend before last. Rumor has it 20-25,000 BRITS made the considerable trip from the UK for the Mayweather-Hatton boxing match. They brought their own bands with them and everything. The fight was held at the MGM GRAND, who went through 4,000 cases of beer on Saturday night (normally the BIGGEST night sees but 500 cases consumed). Several local bars were 'closed' because of unruly behavior by the BRITS (a VEGAS first). Later, newspaper headlines suggested such boorish behavior will not be missed in this 'wide-open' city. I watched a replay of the fight on HBO over the weekend. It was a good fight. Hatton is one tough kid, but Mayweather is a more skilled boxer, and in fact knocked Hatton out in the 10th. Bill (Damdinger) http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 17 08:49:14 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:49:14 EST Subject: [Fot] Re Ambro 001 Message-ID: Doug, Best wishes on your sale of the AMBRO...truly a very significant Triumph, in my mind. Regardless, I hope it finds it's way to The Glen, as it appears the Peyote will be there, and also the last AMBRO built by Bill Ames. Perhaps one other Ambro....... > To any and all who would or could care I now decided to sell my car. > I have owned the Ambro for 15 years the longest hold for me of any car. > The has been exception thru time dicounting that it is a TR3 in wolves > clothing. > Something else has caught my eye so it is time, most of you know the car > but if you have any question > Regarding please drop me a note or call 612 759 6355. > Ahh yes the price from what I have been hearing the small motor specials > have been selling in 50 60 range > a bargin for the history and style of this car. > Hey this can be driving in any event anywhere in the world it is 001 no > question asked. > Comes with spares, log books, and drop clothes for the oil leakes. > > Anybody that wishes to jump in on the car please do I would like to see > it > stay in the US but heck the way the dollar is today this this would be a > steal of shore. > Thanks > Doug Karon > 612 759 6355 > From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 17 11:06:05 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:06:05 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [DCTRA] I've heard of unrealistic prices on eBay, but this is ridiculous... References: <20071217052806.FFJG24689.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: It would be impossible to restore one to even very good condition for much less, though that's usually the seller's problem, not the buyer's. eBay is not always rational, you can sell something useful and valuable there and not get much, or something happens to hit the right folks who really want that thing and it goes for silly money. For example, I recently sold three motorcycle models on eBay. I bought them about ten years ago, and they were expensive l then ($150 each), because they were cast kits that required a lot of time and expertise to build. For example, the cylinders were built by stacking fin disks. The wheels looked nearly impossible to build to me. I never touched them other than looking at the minimal directions and the primitive parts. If I put them in a garage sale I'd be lucky to find a buyer for ten bucks. On eBay they fetched about $500 each. People who knew what they were bid against each other. The guy that got two of them was ecstatic about the two he got and devastated that he got outbid at the last second for the third. He said he would have paid whatever it took. He sent me wooden boxes with foam pads to ship the models in. It would have been completely impossible without a lot of advertising to reach that guy. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of David W. Riddle Sent: Sun 12/16/2007 9:23 PM To: fot at autox.team.net; dan at thecarringtons.net Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [DCTRA] I've heard of unrealistic prices on eBay, but this is ridiculous... Guffaw! >Unless you think $29,500 is a decent price for a TR7 coupe... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1979-TRIUMPH-TR-7-NICEST-RESTORED-TR-7-IN-THE -WORLD_W0QQitemZ260188936438QQihZ016QQcategoryZ6469QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem > >I would also expect "the nicest restored TR7 in the world" to not >have a rusted out exhaust system... plus the correct hood with the >double bump would be nice. > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Zane Horton Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 17 11:07:13 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:07:13 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... References: Message-ID: Gee, who'd have ever thought that refined folks like boxing fans might misbehave once they got to Vegas. The city that advertises "what happens in Vegas..." -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: Mon 12/17/2007 7:08 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... Amici... Geezz...I thought only us Yankees were known for boorish behavior. Our cousins set some records in VEGAS the weekend before last. Rumor has it 20-25,000 BRITS made the considerable trip from the UK for the Mayweather-Hatton boxing match. They brought their own bands with them and everything. The fight was held at the MGM GRAND, who went through 4,000 cases of beer on Saturday night (normally the BIGGEST night sees but 500 cases consumed). Several local bars were 'closed' because of unruly behavior by the BRITS (a VEGAS first). Later, newspaper headlines suggested such boorish behavior will not be missed in this 'wide-open' city. I watched a replay of the fight on HBO over the weekend. It was a good fight. Hatton is one tough kid, but Mayweather is a more skilled boxer, and in fact knocked Hatton out in the 10th. Bill (Damdinger) http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 11:39:45 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:39:45 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Dec 17 11:55:01 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:55:01 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed References: Message-ID: <003001c840de$54994f70$1b02a8c0@workstation3> I would suggest getting a Triumph first of all, hopefully one that has already been race prepped. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:39 AM Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed > I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. > i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or > recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. > > Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Mon Dec 17 11:59:46 2007 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:59:46 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed References: Message-ID: <003b01c840de$fde74a50$0200a8c0@Desktop> I would go rent a racer to see if you like first............if you do 1 Triumph 2 Suite, etc. Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 1:39 PM Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed >I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. > i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or > recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. > > Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Dec 17 12:06:41 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:06:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed In-Reply-To: <003b01c840de$fde74a50$0200a8c0@Desktop> References: <003b01c840de$fde74a50$0200a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Dec 2007, Craig wrote: > I would go rent a racer to see if you like first............if you do > 1 Triumph > 2 Suite, etc. > Craig We do know that Gary _HAS_ a TR4 now... right? So he's got that step out of the way. Or is the server not serving up the smiley faces on the replies. In either case, welcome Gary! rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 17 12:21:30 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:21:30 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed References: Message-ID: I don't know what's available around Branson, it might be worthwhile for you to take a trip to VIR, they have a well equipped race shop there. Of course you want to call first and make sure they'll be open. I really like the Vintage look race suits from Stand 21--they have the Dunlop blue ones that look great with our period cars. I don't have one yet, but that's what I'll buy for my next race suit. If you race in hot weather you might want to consider one of the new (but expensive) ventilated suits, or go with a standard three layers suit and spring for a cool suit. Either the type that pump cold water through a t shirt or the new ones with exothermic crystals that you stick in a freezer. For gloves, you want snug, but not as tight as classic driving gloves, with long forearms to keep your skin covered even if your suit arms get pulled up a bit by the belt. Shoes--I don't like the new "sneaker" style driving shoes, I like the boot type with soles as thin as ballet shoes. Simpsons are fine. You need a fireproof balaclava under your helmet, socks, and arm restraints that connect to your seat belt. The arm restraints can be built into your suit or you can get the loop type that slides on your arms. Make sure you helmet is current--that you have acceptable snell approval. Motorcycle helmets are not acceptable. You also need to be a little concerned about wind lift in your open car (I know you have a TR4--congrats) so you can either get a stick on whickerbill for the helmet, or buy a helmet that is aerodynamically suitable. Shoei's have a narrow wind entry and not much lift, though I still use a bill on mine. For jugs, the most durable are the heavy square poly jugs. Get a filler hose that will fit your tank. You probably want at least two, maybe three. You also need to carry water for the car. You also need all the usual spares--oil, brake fluid, battery charger, spare disk pads, etc. Most of this you'll figure out as you go. If your first race is at a big event there will be vendors for race stuff at the event. You need to take a couple of classes. Perhaps your local organizing body has some--these are usually the cheapest and sometimes the best way to get track time and experience. Take all you can manage before you race. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sent: Mon 12/17/2007 10:39 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Mon Dec 17 13:22:57 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:22:57 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BC17032@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Gary, Congratulations on the TR4. I hope you can make it down to CVAR events. We hold one each spring and fall at Hallett and you a a lot closer to theat track than I am. As a matter of fact you are a bit closer to the new track at Eagles Canyon then I am to Hallett. We have a school and race weekend in February at TWS in College Station. Marquest says that will be a little over 600 miles but where else in the middle of the country can you race in February? As for your questions I buy most of my stuff online from places like Racer Wholesale, Speedway Motors and Capital Motorsports. You can even find a lot of it with Jegs and Summit Racing. Look up Pegusus, Aircraft Spruce and Supply, McMaster-Carr and Truechoice for the hard to find stuff. You can get pretty good deals if you figure out what you need and are willing to hunt it down. Hunting the stuff down becomes part of the fun of it. Eventually you become an expert on the best place to buy anything you need. If you want the top end stuff I think it is pricey where ever you buy it, but the generic stuff can be bought at commodity prices. You may want to get the required safety gear for the first race and gradually add stuff like fuel jugs as you go. A lot of tracks are moving to self service fuel pumps so that is getting easier. Hope to see you on track soon. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:40 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitfiresuz at 141.com Mon Dec 17 13:33:42 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:33:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: <380-2200712117203342503@M2W035.mail2web.com> Hi Gary, and welcome to the vintage racing world! To follow the great suggestions from Bill and Bob, I would like to add a few other essentials: A good tire pressure gauge Proper load-rated straps/tire bonnets for towing A good torque wrench for wheel tightening (and other work) A portable compressor and/or air tank for adjusting tire pressures A way to tell how much gas is in your fuel cell (we use a wooden yardstick) A trouble light (there are some good fluorescent rechargeables now) Good luck, and I hope we will get to see you on the track next year! Susan :) #42 FP Spitfire "Tristan" Original Message: ----------------- From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:39:45 EST To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft. Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Dec 17 14:49:59 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:49:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed References: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BC17032@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Message-ID: <005401c840f6$c5966740$1b02a8c0@workstation3> Robert, now knowing you have the Triumph racecar, I would suggest talking to other racers in your area and finding out what they are doing for equipment. I have never bought any race items such as safety equipment over the internet. I always try to do business with a local supplier. I buy from a local company called Armadillo Racing and I have never checked his prices. The reason is he shows up to at least 50% of the local races with his trailer and gear. Last race of this season my gloves failed tech inspection and I was able to buy a pair from him at the race track. If we don't support these guys that support us at the track because we're trying to save a few bucks, they will go away. I've taken most of my racing equipment from my garage to use at the race track and didn't see the need to run out and buy all new race stuff as jacks, etc. I would take the advice of one of the others and see if you like before you jump into it with both feet. A friend of mine thought he'd like vintage racing, (he's a pilot as was his dad) and he found he was not very fond of it and felt he was in the way of everyone, sold his car and hasn't been back since. He bought a car, trailer, truck, camper, jacks, gas cans, tools, racing suit, gloves helmet, shoes and all the rest of it. I started out autocrossing with the Jaguar club and loved it but wanted more. I found this was probably the easiest(and cheapest) way to go racing, if you want to call it racing. I took several racing classes before every getting into a vintage race car. This also was very helpful in getting me interested. What is Classic Sports Cars? Good luck on getting started Charly Mitchel > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of GSFuqua1 at aol.com > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:40 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed > > I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing Scene. > > i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or > recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. > > Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From stutzmans at comcast.net Mon Dec 17 19:04:42 2007 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:04:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... References: Message-ID: <002301c8411a$5b2a8ed0$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31> sounds like the Brits had a good time in Vegas Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:08 AM Subject: [Fot] Party, party, party... > Amici... > > Geezz...I thought only us Yankees were known for boorish behavior. > > Our cousins set some records in VEGAS the weekend before last. Rumor has > it > 20-25,000 BRITS made the considerable trip from the UK for the > Mayweather-Hatton boxing match. They brought their own bands with them > and everything. The > fight was held at the MGM GRAND, who went through 4,000 cases of beer on > Saturday night (normally the BIGGEST night sees but 500 cases consumed). > Several > local bars were 'closed' because of unruly behavior by the BRITS (a VEGAS > first). Later, newspaper headlines suggested such boorish behavior will > not be > missed in this 'wide-open' city. > > I watched a replay of the fight on HBO over the weekend. It was a good > fight. Hatton is one tough kid, but Mayweather is a more skilled boxer, > and in > fact knocked Hatton out in the 10th. > > Bill (Damdinger) > > > > > > http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm > > > ************************************** > > See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Dec 17 19:33:36 2007 From: Lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:33:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15E96AC4-F391-42B5-8D1A-F6102BD6F485@earthlink.net> Gary, Don't forget the Visa, Mastercard, travelers checks, the occasional bank letter of credit and CASH!!! [lots and lots of that]. With those 5 items, the rest will work it's way out and you will have smooth sailing. Welcome, best wishes and have fun! Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Dec 17, 2007, at 11:39 AM, GSFuqua1 at aol.com wrote: > I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing > Scene. > i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or > recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. > > Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From SMITH1127 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 19:37:47 2007 From: SMITH1127 at aol.com (SMITH1127 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:37:47 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! Message-ID: Aloha, Charly. Thanks for all of the great advice. Our track here on the Big Island is quite small, and the SCCA events are not exactly what I would call wheel to wheel racing, but rather driver skills exercises. We simply do not have a decent track in Hawaii, so we make do with what we've got. Maybe some day..... I've also got a small collection of British sports cars--this has been a passion of mine for 40 years. These are all drivers, and I do drive them all. I have also had some of them on the track, but bought Bob Coan's Spitfire as a car that I could dedicate to the track. It may be more car than our little track calls for (I doubt that I will ever use the overdrive), but it should be lots of fun and the guys and gals that do race here will like to see another real racecar at our events. Most folks show up in their everyday drivers, although we do have a Lotus 7 and some other unusual vehicles for being in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Thanks again for your note. I've attached a few pictures from our car barn. Much aloha. Robert **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010490.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010511.JPG] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010396.JPG] From brad.kahler at 141.com Mon Dec 17 20:48:35 2007 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:48:35 -0600 Subject: [Fot] For the racer who has every tool made Message-ID: <47674313.1000705@141.com> This just got posted to the Shop-Talk list and I thought it might be appropriate for the FOT members who need to have every tool made. http://sheldonbrown.com/tork-grip.html Brad 1957 TR3 vintage racer From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Dec 17 21:00:36 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:00:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed References: <15E96AC4-F391-42B5-8D1A-F6102BD6F485@earthlink.net> Message-ID: So Gary, how much is in your wallet??? ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg "Lunker" Hilyer To: GSFuqua1 at aol.com ; FOT Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Gary, Don't forget the Visa, Mastercard, travelers checks, the occasional bank letter of credit and CASH!!! [lots and lots of that]. With those 5 items, the rest will work it's way out and you will have smooth sailing. Welcome, best wishes and have fun! Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Dec 17, 2007, at 11:39 AM, GSFuqua1 at aol.com wrote: > I am looking for most items needed to get into the Vintage Racing > Scene. > i.e. Suit, shoes, gloves, underwear, fuel jugs, etc. Any help or > recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have a helmet. > > Cheers & Merry Christmas to all, > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 21:02:39 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:02:39 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: Thank you Charly. That has already been done. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 21:08:53 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:08:53 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: Thank you Bob. I may be starting out in Vintage Racing but I'm not exactly stupid. Just looking for some recommendations. I actually have TWO fully prepared Vintage Racers. Both are excellent cars and I expect to have some fun, NOT try to be the next Sterling Moss. Ha ha Cheers, Gary **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 21:27:53 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:27:53 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: Thanks. All very useful and appreciated. I perhaps should have given a little more information in my request. For the past 5+ years (After retirement) I have owned and operated Classic Sports Cars in Branson, Missouri. I have a full blown operation with virtually all tools, etc. I have restored several Triumphs (TR 3's, TR 4's, TR 250, TR 6's, TR 7's & 8's as well as a couple of mid year Corvettes, a couple of Porsche's, MG's and several Austin-Healeys. I have won Gold Level Concours at National Austin-Healey events as well as 395 of 400 on several of the Triumphs including Best of Show, etc., etc. I have run quite a few Auto Crosses and while fun they are just not exactly what I really enjoy. I have also attended several vintage races and have taken a fair amount of class room training for Vintage Racing and have signed up for the CVAR School in February at TWS. Hope this helps explain my interest and perhaps the lack of initial information in my request. Cheers, Gary **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Dec 17 21:36:02 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:36:02 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: Good one!! Probably not enough but sufficient at the moment. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Mon Dec 17 23:06:22 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:06:22 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c8413c$1d827030$b1191718@computer> Hi Robert, I live in Sacramento, California and recently bought a '74 TR6 that had only a few years before come from Oahu. I bought it from John Shrum's son. Apparently John was retired Navy and had a British car shop on Oahu and did some SCCA Club Racing in the 80s and 90s. I am autocrossing this TR6 now and plan to do some road racing even though vintage racing in Northern California is not too friendly to TR6s. Jim Two '74 TR6s -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of SMITH1127 at aol.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 6:38 PM To: charly at mitchelplumbing.com; RKramer at rdoequipment.com; GSFuqua1 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! Aloha, Charly. Thanks for all of the great advice. Our track here on the Big Island is quite small, and the SCCA events are not exactly what I would call wheel to wheel racing, but rather driver skills exercises. We simply do not have a decent track in Hawaii, so we make do with what we've got. Maybe some day..... I've also got a small collection of British sports cars--this has been a passion of mine for 40 years. These are all drivers, and I do drive them all. I have also had some of them on the track, but bought Bob Coan's Spitfire as a car that I could dedicate to the track. It may be more car than our little track calls for (I doubt that I will ever use the overdrive), but it should be lots of fun and the guys and gals that do race here will like to see another real racecar at our events. Most folks show up in their everyday drivers, although we do have a Lotus 7 and some other unusual vehicles for being in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Thanks again for your note. I've attached a few pictures from our car barn. Much aloha. Robert **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010490.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010511.JPG] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of P1010396.JPG] Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From budscars at msn.com Tue Dec 18 08:38:21 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 07:38:21 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! References: <000001c8413c$1d827030$b1191718@computer> Message-ID: Hi Jim...SCCA is hosting 2 vintage events this year..one at Laguna Seca april 12-13, and one at Infineon on Sept 20 & 21..I'm quite sure your TR6 will be welcome, as there are 240Zs , datsun 510s, and other cars of your car's era . Take your car through the SCCA driver's school Feb 29- March 2... or...Go to the CSRG Driver's clinic in February(generally speaking your car does not have to be CSRG accepted to take the clinic, and you will get your CSRG license(medical card) Either of these venues will get you a vintage racing license for SCCA contact Bill godwin at 925 200 7722 or ponyperf at comcast.net for CSRG go to www.csrgracing.org or call Dan Radowicz at 925 736 2823 ...also..HSR west will probably accept your car. HSR West has 1 race a year at Thunderhill 310 530 9731 Ed Swart..So there you have 3 Northern California Races that your car will probably qualify for in 2008. Have fun, Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim hearn" To: ; ; ; ; Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! > Hi Robert, > > I live in Sacramento, California and recently bought a '74 TR6 that had > only a few years before come from Oahu. I bought it from John Shrum's > son. Apparently John was retired Navy and had a British car shop on > Oahu and did some SCCA Club Racing in the 80s and 90s. I am > autocrossing this TR6 now and plan to do some road racing even though > vintage racing in Northern California is not too friendly to TR6s. > > Jim > Two '74 TR6s > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > SMITH1127 at aol.com > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 6:38 PM > To: charly at mitchelplumbing.com; RKramer at rdoequipment.com; > GSFuqua1 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Recommendations Needed--Mahalo for the Advice! > > Aloha, Charly. Thanks for all of the great advice. Our track here on the > Big > Island is quite small, and the SCCA events are not exactly what I would > call > wheel to wheel racing, but rather driver skills exercises. We simply do > not > have a decent track in Hawaii, so we make do with what we've got. Maybe > some > day..... > > I've also got a small collection of British sports cars--this has been a > > passion of mine for 40 years. These are all drivers, and I do drive them > all. I > have also had some of them on the track, but bought Bob Coan's Spitfire > as a > car that I could dedicate to the track. It may be more car than our > little > track calls for (I doubt that I will ever use the overdrive), but it > should be > lots of fun and the guys and gals that do race here will like to see > another > real racecar at our events. Most folks show up in their everyday > drivers, > although we do have a Lotus 7 and some other unusual vehicles for being > in the > middle of the Pacific Ocean. > > Thanks again for your note. I've attached a few pictures from our car > barn. > Much aloha. Robert > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name > of P1010490.jpg] > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name > of P1010511.JPG] > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name > of P1010396.JPG] > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 18 08:49:16 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:49:16 EST Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn-Painted Post Message-ID: FoT, I got a call from FoT Wensley this morning. he managed to book the LAST ROOM at the Hampton Inn. (of course there will always be cancellations) Andrea, the manager of the Hampton Inn, is going to get back to me on Wed or Thur. They are opening a new property nearby. I will be talking to her about additional rooms as it appears they will be needed. JOE ALEXANDER From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 18 08:52:48 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:52:48 EST Subject: [Fot] Recommendations Needed Message-ID: Gary, Introducing yourself was a good idea. See how helpful this dynamic group is. I know you have plans earlier in the year for racing in Texas, but I hope that you can plan for Watkins Glen. If you do, there are a couple of things we need to discuss, regarding your application for entry. Joe A From mark at bradakis.com Tue Dec 18 09:50:40 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:50:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn-Painted Post In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4767FA60.4000606@bradakis.com> Snooze you lose. I was planning on reserving a room there, and was going to call in a couple of days after I decide for sure whether or not I'll be attending. I should just call and at least get on a waiting list or something. mjb. From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 18 10:17:54 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:17:54 EST Subject: [Fot] Hampton Inn-Painted Post Message-ID: Mark, I will be talking to Andrea on Wednesday or Thursday about alternatives. They are opening a new property a short distance away. I might be able to lock into another deal, now that we have filled up one hotel. :-) Joe Alexander > Snooze you lose. I was planning on reserving a room there, > and was going to call in a couple of days after I decide for > sure whether or not I'll be attending. I should just call > and at least get on a waiting list or something. > > mjb. > From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 18 10:28:08 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:28:08 EST Subject: [Fot] Paddock Area and Entry Eligibility-Watkins Glen Message-ID: FoT Just talked to my favorite contact at SVRA: SVRA is going to allocate PREMIUM Paddock Space that combines hard surface and grass. We will have a hospitality area (tent) for gathering and protection and display of a couple of important Triumphs. SVRA says there is room for all manner of rigs. More on this later. (Heads up to Tom Strange and the WPTA) I will have more detailed info for you guys. I also talked about car eligibility and it remains on a case by case basis. If you think you are marginal in entry, please contact me and I will see what I can do. (Mike?) Regards, Joe Alexander From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 18 13:49:37 2007 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:49:37 -0500 Subject: [Fot] For the racer who has every tool made In-Reply-To: <47674313.1000705@141.com> References: <47674313.1000705@141.com> Message-ID: > This just got posted to the Shop-Talk list and I thought it might be > appropriate for the FOT members who need to have every tool made.> > http://sheldonbrown.com/tork-grip.html> > Brad> 1957 TR3 vintage racer This guy is a friend of my brother's from when they were both photographers in Cambridge back in The Olden Days. Small world. John H. From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Dec 18 18:14:24 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:14:24 EST Subject: [Fot] Stepped Triple Manifold for Webers on a GT6 Message-ID: Guys, John McCue is looking for subject parts....can anyone help? His eMail address is: slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net Thanks, Joe A > Looking for the stepped triple manifold for Webers on a GT6. I have the > straight one for TR6. Have any ideas who might have one? Thanks, John > Return-Path: Received: from rly-dc06.mx.aol.com (rly-dc06.mail.aol.com [172.19.136.35]) by air-dc10.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDC101-b254768529c59; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:22 -0500 Received: from omta01.suddenlink.net (omta01-pub.suddenlink.net [208.180.40.73]) by rly-dc06.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDC061-b254768529c59; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:08 -0500 Received: from johnkbv4bfa8sa ([75.108.225.18]) by omta01.suddenlink.net (InterMail vM.7.05.02.03 201-2174-114-109-20070208) with ESMTP id <20071218230704.WFIH19462.omta01.suddenlink.net at johnkbv4bfa8sa> for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:07:04 -0600 Message-ID: <000c01c841ca$b77a3d60$12e16c4b at johnkbv4bfa8sa> From: "John McCue" To: References: Subject: Re: Triumph Aluminum Plates Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-AOL-IP: 208.180.40.73 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : n X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Looking for the stepped triple manifold for Webers on a GT6. I have the straight one for TR6. Have any ideas who might have one? Thanks, John ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 9:45 PM Subject: Re: Triumph Aluminum Plates Have all of Kastners stuff and have talked to Steve Smith from the west coast a couple of times. Do you have Kas' latest three publications (books)? I sell them for him and have all three in stock. Regards, Joe From awashatko at wi.rr.com Tue Dec 18 19:17:22 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:17:22 -0600 Subject: [Fot] manifold gasket Message-ID: Jack, Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on page A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that they "are made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material that is thicker than the original composite gaskets." Could this be the same material you are using for the TR4 gaskets? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From Gt6steve at aol.com Tue Dec 18 19:41:54 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:41:54 EST Subject: [Fot] manifold gasket Message-ID: In a message dated 12/18/2007 6:17:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: Jack, Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on page A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that they "are made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material that is thicker than the original composite gaskets." Could this be the same material you are using for the TR4 gaskets? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 Allen, I don't have that catalog. Can you quote a part number and price? Lordy knows I'm always looking for a good (Read reusable) manifold gasket. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From S.Janzen at comcast.net Tue Dec 18 19:45:03 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:45:03 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Stepped Triple Manifold for Webers on a GT6 References: Message-ID: <000b01c841e9$28375740$6601a8c0@vefadvisors.com> I just picked up a GT6 that was hillclimbed and autocrossed. It came with spares including a head with the TriumphTune stepped manifolds bolted on, same as I have installed on my car. They don't appear to have ever been used but have been sitting on the floor of an unheated garage for about 20 years. They could use a good cleaning/beadblasting but are otherwise fine. Linkage is incomplete but Pierce Manifolds sells everything you need. Make me an offer! Scott Janzen, Philadelphia area ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 8:14 PM Subject: [Fot] Stepped Triple Manifold for Webers on a GT6 > Guys, > > John McCue is looking for subject parts....can anyone help? > His eMail address is: slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net > > Thanks, > > Joe A > > >> Looking for the stepped triple manifold for Webers on a GT6. I have the >> straight one for TR6. Have any ideas who might have one? Thanks, John >> > > > Return-Path: > Received: from rly-dc06.mx.aol.com (rly-dc06.mail.aol.com > [172.19.136.35]) by air-dc10.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id > MAILINDC101-b254768529c59; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:22 -0500 > Received: from omta01.suddenlink.net (omta01-pub.suddenlink.net > [208.180.40.73]) by rly-dc06.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id > MAILRELAYINDC061-b254768529c59; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:08 -0500 > Received: from johnkbv4bfa8sa ([75.108.225.18]) by omta01.suddenlink.net > (InterMail vM.7.05.02.03 201-2174-114-109-20070208) with ESMTP id > <20071218230704.WFIH19462.omta01.suddenlink.net at johnkbv4bfa8sa> for > ; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:07:04 -0600 > Message-ID: <000c01c841ca$b77a3d60$12e16c4b at johnkbv4bfa8sa> > From: "John McCue" > To: > References: > Subject: Re: Triumph Aluminum Plates > Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:07:09 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 > X-AOL-IP: 208.180.40.73 > X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n > X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : n > X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d > X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain > > Looking for the stepped triple manifold for Webers on a GT6. I have the > straight one for TR6. Have any ideas who might have one? Thanks, John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: N197TR4 at cs.com > To: slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 9:45 PM > Subject: Re: Triumph Aluminum Plates > > > > > > > Have all of Kastners stuff and have talked to Steve Smith from the west > coast a couple of times. > > > Do you have Kas' latest three publications (books)? > > I sell them for him and have all three in stock. > > Regards, > > Joe > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Tue Dec 18 20:00:29 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:00:29 -0600 Subject: [Fot] manifold gasket In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74fc942294cd3574444e6f843e89080b@wi.rr.com> Up to CC75000 - 695-050 from CC75001 - 695-060 Allen On Dec 18, 2007, at 8:41 PM, Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 12/18/2007 6:17:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: >> Jack, >> >> Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on page >> A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that they "are >> made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material that is >> thicker >> than the original composite gaskets." Could this be the same material >> you are using for the TR4 gaskets? >> >> Allen >> >> A l l e n W a s h a t k o >> 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > Allen, I don't have that catalog. Can you quote a part number and > price? Lordy knows I'm always looking for a good (Read reusable) > manifold gasket. > > > > See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Dec 18 20:05:35 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:05:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] manifold gasket In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <988037.97473.qm@web81209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Guys:If these are the P/N's 695-050 ($17.95) & 695-060 ($18.95) I've used this part for awhile now. They are about twice as thick as a stock gasket, and are made of a fiberous material instead of the composite stock gaskets. They have sealed every header I've ever put on a customers car, but, I would not consider them reusable. But then again, I don't have a lot of customers asking my to pull headers as often as we might on a race car. Thanks - Ed Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/18/2007 6:17:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: Jack, Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on page A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that they "are made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material that is thicker than the original composite gaskets." Could this be the same material you are using for the TR4 gaskets? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 Allen, I don't have that catalog. Can you quote a part number and price? Lordy knows I'm always looking for a good (Read reusable) manifold gasket. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Dec 18 20:17:31 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:17:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] manifold gasket In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <78170.67523.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Good idea! I can see these splitting after being compressed for a period. Of course, cleaning the manifold of any sharp edges would cut down on the header cutting the material. I'm not saying the gaskets aren't good...I use them all the time and pay the extra $$$ so I'll never have to worry about manifold leaks. For that they are great! - Ed Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: I bought some very high dollar gaskets from Remco or somesuch that were very thick and forgiving. sadly they split when disassembled so I started wrapping them in foil before install to provide a sacrificial layer. I'm hoping these gaskets are similar: Guys:If these are the P/N's 695-050 ($17.95) & 695-060 ($18.95) I've used this part for awhile now. They are about twice as thick as a stock gasket, and are made of a fiberous material instead of the composite stock gaskets. They have sealed every header I've ever put on a customers car, but, I would not consider them reusable. But then again, I don't have a lot of customers asking my to pull headers as often as we might on a race car. Thanks - Ed Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/18/2007 6:17:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, awashatko at wi.rr.com writes: Jack, Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on page A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that they "are made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material that is thicker than the original composite gaskets." Could this be the same material you are using for the TR4 gaskets? Allen A l l e n W a s h a t k o 1971 TR6 - Number 6 Allen, I don't have that catalog. Can you quote a part number and price? Lordy knows I'm always looking for a good (Read reusable) manifold gasket. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot --------------------------------- See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Dec 19 04:47:27 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 05:47:27 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Re: manifold gasket Message-ID: <200712191147.lBJBlZbr304579@ns3.geneseo.net> >Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 05:45:34 -0600 >To: Allen Washatko >From: "Jack W. Drews" >Subject: Re: manifold gasket > >Could be, but I doubt it. My gaskets aren't fibrous -- they are >compacted graphite -- but if theirs is thicker than stock, it's got >to be better for this application. > >At 08:17 PM 12/18/2007, you wrote: >>Jack, >> >>Moss is showing a "new" high performance TR6 manifold gasket on >>page A22 of their winter 2007 Triumph catalogue. They state that >>they "are made from a high temperature resistant fibrous material >>that is thicker than the original composite gaskets." Could this be >>the same material you are using for the TR4 gaskets? >> >>Allen >> >>A l l e n W a s h a t k o >>1971 TR6 - Number 6 From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Dec 19 07:16:17 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:16:17 EST Subject: [Fot] paging Joe Curry and Mike Munson.... thanks! (no text) Message-ID: From triosan at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 11:27:47 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:27:47 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question Message-ID: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> I am replacing a ratty top on a 74.5 TR6. Want to know which, if any, of the seals, velcro etc. shown in the Moss catalog I need to buy [total comes to 140 or so for everything]. Is the front seal that mates with the windshield reusable, or does it get destroyed when removed? Am having a professional shop do the install, so want to take all the needed parts to them. Thanks, -- Chuck Arnold From don at carterdesignassociates.com Wed Dec 19 16:35:28 2007 From: don at carterdesignassociates.com (Don Carter) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:35:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003d01c84297$d66cab40$59e8a8c0@donlaptop> My advice is to replace the rubber seal that mates with the windshield for sure. The side seals and the top side channels that hold these rubbers at the top of the glass when it is rolled up, are also a good idea to replace. All this stuff, at least in Texas gets brittle and makes little or no seal after 25 or 30 years. What is the life span of these materials? For that matter what is the life span of a TR6 ? Your trim guy will find it much easier slipping a new seal in the top channel, translating to less time for him, which translates to a lower cost, or should. Most of these FOT racing guys don't need no stinking trim, unless they have other TR's they drive on the streets. This stuff just adds weight. Good Luck. Don W. Carter, AIA Carter Design Associates 6213 Skyline Dr., Suite 100 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 529-2288 Telephone (713) 789-2330 Fax don at carterdesignassociates.com -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+don=carterdesignassociates.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+don=carterdesignassociates.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Chuck Arnold Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 12:28 PM To: Triumph; Friends Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question I am replacing a ratty top on a 74.5 TR6. Want to know which, if any, of the seals, velcro etc. shown in the Moss catalog I need to buy [total comes to 140 or so for everything]. Is the front seal that mates with the windshield reusable, or does it get destroyed when removed? Am having a professional shop do the install, so want to take all the needed parts to them. Thanks, -- Chuck Arnold Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Wed Dec 19 17:03:19 2007 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:03:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <637442.4890.qm@web81202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Chuck: Absolutely on the header to windshield seal. It will probably get torn or damaged as it is removed anyway. The strips that hold it on are reusable as long as your shop doesn't enlarge the holes too much drilling the rivets out. You'll have to look at the side seals and see if they are pliable. Many times the velcro comes unglued, but is just fine, i which case the side seals are removed, the strips that retain them are removed, and the velcro reglued. If the sside seals aren't pliable they won't survive te removal and reinstallation. Your call on those. Good luck - Ed Chuck Arnold wrote: I am replacing a ratty top on a 74.5 TR6. Want to know which, if any, of the seals, velcro etc. shown in the Moss catalog I need to buy [total comes to 140 or so for everything]. Is the front seal that mates with the windshield reusable, or does it get destroyed when removed? Am having a professional shop do the install, so want to take all the needed parts to them. Thanks, -- Chuck Arnold Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From rem9 at frontiernet.net Wed Dec 19 17:43:46 2007 From: rem9 at frontiernet.net (Russ Moore) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:43:46 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question References: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00eb01c842a1$628f3760$03fea8c0@remsec1> Avoid any rubber product made in China. We've had rapid failures of everything from door gaskets, steering rack boots, rod end boots, etc.. Its worth the extra little bit to get the better quality product. Russ Moore ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Arnold" To: "Triumph" <6pack at autox.team.net>; "Friends" Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 1:27 PM Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question >I am replacing a ratty top on a 74.5 TR6. Want to know which, if any, of > the seals, velcro etc. shown in the Moss catalog I need to buy [total > comes > to 140 or so for everything]. Is the front seal that mates with the > windshield reusable, or does it get destroyed when removed? Am having a > professional shop do the install, so want to take all the needed parts to > them. > Thanks, > > -- > Chuck Arnold > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitfiresuz at 141.com Wed Dec 19 18:19:46 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:19:46 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question In-Reply-To: <00eb01c842a1$628f3760$03fea8c0@remsec1> References: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> <00eb01c842a1$628f3760$03fea8c0@remsec1> Message-ID: <4769C332.3050306@141.com> I agree. We just divested ourselves of a set of six Long March tires (for our Airstream motorhome) where not one single tire was in round. (The truck tire place we went to to have them checked said they rarely see good ones.) This was actually after receiving a favorable recommendation from someone who is using them on his moho, but his are a good bit older and the quality may not have been so bad then. We got a set of Toyos to replace them and are very pleased. Fortunately, the tire place reimbursed us in full for the LM's, even after trips to Pennsylvania and Branson on them. Brad said he saw somewhere today that the affluent Chinese are buying high-end Japanese toys, and not Chinese ones. Reminds me of the joke on Jay Leno the other night: A Chinese government official said they had to recall one million pounds of lead, destined for export from their country, because they found toys in it. ;) Susan :) Russ Moore wrote: > Avoid any rubber product made in China. We've had rapid failures of > everything from door gaskets, steering rack boots, rod end boots, etc.. Its > worth the extra little bit to get the better quality product. > > Russ Moore > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From stlnyc at msn.com Wed Dec 19 19:53:49 2007 From: stlnyc at msn.com (Fred & Mary Hodgson) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:53:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question References: <8cbd782d0712191027w37b23ae5re2f03e786de709ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Chuck- Another thing to check is the webbing for the bows. It's often overlooked & is a pain to do after the fact. Fred Hodgson ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Arnold To: Triumph ; Friends Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 11:27 AM Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top install question I am replacing a ratty top on a 74.5 TR6. Want to know which, if any, of the seals, velcro etc. shown in the Moss catalog I need to buy [total comes to 140 or so for everything]. Is the front seal that mates with the windshield reusable, or does it get destroyed when removed? Am having a professional shop do the install, so want to take all the needed parts to them. Thanks, -- Chuck Arnold _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vintage.racer at comcast.net Wed Dec 19 20:40:23 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:40:23 -0800 Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? Message-ID: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice> Hello All: Hang on to those vintage Triumph racecars! The January 2008 issue of Vintage Racecar magazine contains an ad (page 22) from a UK race car seller for a 1963 TR4 for...hold on to your wallets...37,500 pounds which translates to about $75,000! The car is described as "The most successful and consistent endurance raced TR4 in Europe". Guess this means my mid-pack, California raced TR4 is worth something less than this cars asking price, ha, ha. Gary 1962 TR4 1969 TR6 From EDENMA at aol.com Wed Dec 19 21:00:28 2007 From: EDENMA at aol.com (EDENMA at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:00:28 EST Subject: [Fot] GT6 Stepped manifolds Message-ID: I would also like to locate a set of stepped weber manifolds for the GT6 if anyone else happens to have a set they are not using and would be willing to part with. Cheers! Mark **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From spreiss at verizon.net Wed Dec 19 05:06:08 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:06:08 +1100 Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? References: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice> Message-ID: <000801c84237$8a80a3e0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> It seems the price for TR3s and 4s is much higher in England for all levels of cars. Perhaps it is because most were sold in foreign markets, with the vast majority sent here to the US. Small cars were still very much a novelty here, and disposable income much more widespread. Nevertheless I'm continually amazed at the steady appearance of new candidates for restoration here. No wonder the discrepency in acquisition costs. Perhaps we should start marketing our TRs for sale over there more! Steve Preiss ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary" To: Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 2:40 PM Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > Hello All: > > Hang on to those vintage Triumph racecars! The January 2008 issue of Vintage > Racecar magazine contains an ad (page 22) from a UK race car seller for a 1963 > TR4 for...hold on to your wallets...37,500 pounds which translates to about > $75,000! The car is described as "The most successful and consistent > endurance raced TR4 in Europe". Guess this means my mid-pack, California > raced TR4 is worth something less than this cars asking price, ha, ha. > > Gary > 1962 TR4 > 1969 TR6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Dec 20 06:59:28 2007 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:59:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? In-Reply-To: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice> References: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice> Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BD051E8@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Could that be the Cambridge Motorsports car? I've seen it advertised for big bucks. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Co. 16415 North IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Fx 512-272-9365 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 9:40 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? Hello All: Hang on to those vintage Triumph racecars! The January 2008 issue of Vintage Racecar magazine contains an ad (page 22) from a UK race car seller for a 1963 TR4 for...hold on to your wallets...37,500 pounds which translates to about $75,000! The car is described as "The most successful and consistent endurance raced TR4 in Europe". Guess this means my mid-pack, California raced TR4 is worth something less than this cars asking price, ha, ha. Gary 1962 TR4 1969 TR6 Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Dec 20 07:09:24 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:09:24 EST Subject: [Fot] Where Kas' last car....GT6? Message-ID: Lists, I am looking for Kas' Last Car, a GT6. Where is it at. Who owns it? Is it for sale? No, I dont want to buy it. :-) Thanks, Joe A n197tr4 at cs.com From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Dec 20 09:40:22 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:40:22 EST Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? Message-ID: You might also try Racetorations. They do some pretty fantastic work too and have been racing Triumphs for close to 30 years now. Gary Fuqua **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Dec 20 11:52:14 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:52:14 EST Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen:Looking for Candidate Triumph for commissioned painting Message-ID: FoT: I am looking for a Triumph that has serious Provenance, preferably a Triumph that has a History with The Glen. I have one candidate in mind, that may serve the spirit of the painting, but need to consider others. ASAP! Regards, Joe From tr4.tony at virgin.net Fri Dec 21 09:06:35 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:06:35 -0000 Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? References: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice> <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BD051E8@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> Message-ID: <004e01c843eb$75c37b20$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> I believe its the Cambridge Motorsport Enduro TR4 ..... all the toys, very very quick ...... and id love it. Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kramer, Robert" To: "Gary" ; Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > Could that be the Cambridge Motorsports car? I've seen it advertised for > big bucks. > > > Bob Kramer > Sales Manager > RDO Equipment Co. > 16415 North IH 35 > Pflugerville, TX 78660 > 512-272-4141 > Fx 512-272-9365 > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of Gary > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 9:40 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > > Hello All: > > Hang on to those vintage Triumph racecars! The January 2008 issue of > Vintage Racecar magazine contains an ad (page 22) from a UK race car > seller for a 1963 > TR4 for...hold on to your wallets...37,500 pounds which translates to > about $75,000! The car is described as "The most successful and > consistent endurance raced TR4 in Europe". Guess this means my > mid-pack, California raced TR4 is worth something less than this cars > asking price, ha, ha. > > Gary > 1962 TR4 > 1969 TR6 > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Fri Dec 21 13:02:46 2007 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:02:46 -0800 Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? References: <000c01c842ba$0dddf760$0301a8c0@GHOffice><950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BD051E8@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com> <004e01c843eb$75c37b20$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Message-ID: <006401c8440c$75428850$1b02a8c0@workstation3> Don't forget the pound is pretty strong right now and in the UK a pound buys as much as dollar does in the US (or close). So if you think about it that way the cars is only about $37,500, which may not be bad for a TR4 with history. The problem is if we were to sell it for $37500 here the Brits would be able to pick it up for about 17000 pounds. I hate to see all the British cars go back to their homeland. Maybe some day we can get our dollar strong again and start buying them back. A Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays to all. Charly Mitchel TR6 #44 BTW, I finished 2nd in overall points this year in the small bore group in SOVREN. Quite an accomplishment for a TR6! ----- Original Message ----- From: "TR4Tony" To: "Kramer, Robert" ; "Gary" ; Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > I believe its the Cambridge Motorsport Enduro TR4 ..... all the toys, very > very quick ...... and id love it. > > Tony > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kramer, Robert" > To: "Gary" ; > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 1:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > > > > Could that be the Cambridge Motorsports car? I've seen it advertised for > > big bucks. > > > > > > Bob Kramer > > Sales Manager > > RDO Equipment Co. > > 16415 North IH 35 > > Pflugerville, TX 78660 > > 512-272-4141 > > Fx 512-272-9365 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net > > [mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf > > Of Gary > > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 9:40 PM > > To: fot at autox.team.net > > Subject: [Fot] What Price a TR4? > > > > Hello All: > > > > Hang on to those vintage Triumph racecars! The January 2008 issue of > > Vintage Racecar magazine contains an ad (page 22) from a UK race car > > seller for a 1963 > > TR4 for...hold on to your wallets...37,500 pounds which translates to > > about $75,000! The car is described as "The most successful and > > consistent endurance raced TR4 in Europe". Guess this means my > > mid-pack, California raced TR4 is worth something less than this cars > > asking price, ha, ha. > > > > Gary > > 1962 TR4 > > 1969 TR6 > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 22 14:37:33 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:37:33 EST Subject: [Fot] Joe & Dottie Richards to be Honored at Watkins Glen (TR2 TS1 LO) Message-ID: THE FOT TO HONOR THE RICHARDS AT WATKINS GLEN In 1980 Joe Richards purchased TR2 TS1 LO and subsequently spent 18 years of his life meticulously restoring the first TR2. Targeted by the UK at the North America market, it featured LHD and Overdrive. This merits our attention and respect, as Joe and his family preserved an important part of our Triumph Racing Heritage. The TR2 was the first low cost performance sports car that enabled the rapid growth of our sport in North America. Hill, Gurney, Kastner, and many more talented racers started their careers with TR2s and TR3s. Joe and Dottie have agreed to join us in the paddock with the number one TR2 on display. They will also be participating in activities in the Village of Watkins Glen. FOT Robert Smith will be working with the Richards for the transport and display of the TR2 TS1 LO and coordinating their activities. Press releases, on this and other FOT activities will be forthcoming by one of our sponsors, CLASSIC MOTORSPORTS MAGAZINE. In the meantime, please review the following link that contains pictures of how the UK Honored the Richards in 2003 for the 50th Anniversary of the Marque. www.triumphregister.com/TS1%20LO%20Returns%20Home%20to%20Britain.html Regards, Joe Alexander Robert Smith From mark at bradakis.com Sat Dec 22 16:49:11 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:49:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Away for a bit Message-ID: <476DA277.4040009@bradakis.com> Gee, the days are getting longer now, 100 degree temps could be here any day now! Well, maybe there's a bit of time before summer actually shows up here in Utah. Plenty of time for me to plan on attending the big event at Watkins Glen. I have a feeling it may be better attended than the FOT race here at Miller's track this past summer. Anyway, we'll be heading to the airport soon for a quick trip to visit family for Christmas, hopefully the Team.Net servers won't act up in my absence. I should be back on wednesday to deal with them if they do. mjb. From b_close at hotmail.com Sat Dec 22 20:13:08 2007 From: b_close at hotmail.com (Bill Close) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:13:08 -0700 Subject: [Fot] rust free TR-4 for sale Message-ID: I have been saving this 1964 TR-4 to restore but have lost my storage and the room it would take to restore it. It has been a Phoenix, Arizona car we think all of its life. It is a complete car minus uphostry and windshield. I do have the windshield frame and TR-250 or early TR-4 seats. It has been stored inside most of its life. The frame was powder coated gloss black , floor pans are solid as are the rockers, no rust under the bottom of the fenders, the body is pretty straight. I had to reassemble the car and reinstall the body, parts are boxed and packed away for storage or shipping. Car is a roller with motor and 4 speed trans installed. Solid rear axle and disc wheels with hubcaps. $2,500. Arizona title.Bill Close Mesa, AZ (602)524-5351 _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sun Dec 23 11:28:58 2007 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:28:58 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Cyl Head Stud sealant Message-ID: <000601c84591$aefaddf0$0301000a@Chowdown> Do you all like to use loctite red or black permatex silicone sealant when installing head studs? Thanks in advance. ~Steve From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 23 13:26:19 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:26:19 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications References: <000601c84591$aefaddf0$0301000a@Chowdown> Message-ID: I've had a number of people ask me about modifying the upper "a" arm with rose joints as I did on Peyote. I'm really hesitant to help folks do this since you can really screw up your front suspension and make the car more than a bit squirrelly. There isn't a recipe for improving the handling of a TR3/4 other than the kind of results you should end up with. Shortening the upper A arm to gain camber is not a great modification, though it's common. I've modeled this several different ways, and it always looks ugly. I'm convinced that the main reason most of us wind up with stiff springs is that when the suspension moves it's a bad thing. With shortened upper arms you can wind up with six or even seven degrees of camber at full upward travel. You don't need a computer to show this, just pull the lower shock and spring plate and run the suspension up to the bump stop. You'll be horrified at how much your tire tips inward if you have short upper arms. The contact patch is probably a half inch wide or less. No wonder these cars understeer under hard cornering. My recommendations are. 1. Buy all of Kas' books. 2. Read them. 3. Read them again. 4. Measure your camber at center, full extension and full bump. 5. Look at the rules for the organization you run with. If they allow you to move the upper suspension pivot point, and you're going to run radials, move the suspension point inward and use full length arms. You want to wind up with 2-3 degrees of camber at the center position. 6. If you can't do that, consider small changes like using the TR6 or Jag ball joint. Personally, the change I like best for TR3 suspension is using a TR6 lower trunnion, upper arms and ball joint. It gives you three degrees of caster and if you really need camber adjustment you can slot the attachment bolt holes for the ball joint or drill alternate location holes. I'd give up a little camber with the suspension at ride height rather than have way too much when the wheel is loaded. That caster might add wear to the worm and pin steering, but if you're exclusively racing the car, not street driving it, that won't matter. Having the car stable when the steering input is light (or gone, in my case) is a great thing. I've harped on this before, but the bump steer in these cars is horrific. You can work to eliminate that and have a car that works so much better you won't believe the difference. Once you do that you can soften those springs and let the suspension work some. Makes another huge difference. From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Dec 23 14:24:19 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:24:19 EST Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications Message-ID: In a message dated 12/23/2007 12:30:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: I've harped on this before, but the bump steer in these cars is horrific. You can work to eliminate that and have a car that works so much better you won't believe the difference. Once you do that you can soften those springs and let the suspension work some. Makes another huge difference. Amen! **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From fubog1 at aol.com Sun Dec 23 14:53:52 2007 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:53:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA13C570E67C88-57C-3C79@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> uhh, this gets a second AMEN! The cars have a suspension system, might as well use it... Good post Bill! Merry X-mas to all Glen -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: BillB at bnj.com; colordog.1 at earthlink.net; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 4:24 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications In a message dated 12/23/2007 12:30:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, BillB at bnj.com writes: I've harped on this before, but the bump steer in these cars is horrific. You can work to eliminate that and have a car that works so much better you won't believe the difference. Once you do that you can soften those springs and let the suspension work some. Makes another huge difference. Amen! **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Sun Dec 23 16:18:06 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:18:06 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c845ba$13783de0$b1191718@computer> Do these comments apply to the TR6? Thanks, Jim Two '74 TR6s -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+jimhearn1=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 12:26 PM To: Steve Belfer; Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications I've had a number of people ask me about modifying the upper "a" arm with rose joints as I did on Peyote. I'm really hesitant to help folks do this since you can really screw up your front suspension and make the car more than a bit squirrelly. There isn't a recipe for improving the handling of a TR3/4 other than the kind of results you should end up with. Shortening the upper A arm to gain camber is not a great modification, though it's common. I've modeled this several different ways, and it always looks ugly. I'm convinced that the main reason most of us wind up with stiff springs is that when the suspension moves it's a bad thing. With shortened upper arms you can wind up with six or even seven degrees of camber at full upward travel. You don't need a computer to show this, just pull the lower shock and spring plate and run the suspension up to the bump stop. You'll be horrified at how much your tire tips inward if you have short upper arms. The contact patch is probably a half inch wide or less. No wonder these cars understeer under hard cornering. My recommendations are. 1. Buy all of Kas' books. 2. Read them. 3. Read them again. 4. Measure your camber at center, full extension and full bump. 5. Look at the rules for the organization you run with. If they allow you to move the upper suspension pivot point, and you're going to run radials, move the suspension point inward and use full length arms. You want to wind up with 2-3 degrees of camber at the center position. 6. If you can't do that, consider small changes like using the TR6 or Jag ball joint. Personally, the change I like best for TR3 suspension is using a TR6 lower trunnion, upper arms and ball joint. It gives you three degrees of caster and if you really need camber adjustment you can slot the attachment bolt holes for the ball joint or drill alternate location holes. I'd give up a little camber with the suspension at ride height rather than have way too much when the wheel is loaded. That caster might add wear to the worm and pin steering, but if you're exclusively racing the car, not street driving it, that won't matter. Having the car stable when the steering input is light (or gone, in my case) is a great thing. I've harped on this before, but the bump steer in these cars is horrific. You can work to eliminate that and have a car that works so much better you won't believe the difference. Once you do that you can soften those springs and let the suspension work some. Makes another huge difference. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Sun Dec 23 17:55:56 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:55:56 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Rear Diff Oil Message-ID: <81f63f5d81d5876e115d216f586cb4b7@wi.rr.com> FoT, What type of rear diff oil are you running when you have either a Quaiffe, Detroit Locker or other such LSD? Have a great holiday! Allen Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From spitlist at cox.net Sun Dec 23 21:07:56 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:07:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rear Diff Oil In-Reply-To: <81f63f5d81d5876e115d216f586cb4b7@wi.rr.com> References: <81f63f5d81d5876e115d216f586cb4b7@wi.rr.com> Message-ID: <000601c845e2$90787d00$0202a8c0@newcomputer> Quaife says to use whatever you were using before installing their carrier. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Allen Washatko Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 5:56 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Rear Diff Oil FoT, What type of rear diff oil are you running when you have either a Quaiffe, Detroit Locker or other such LSD? Have a great holiday! Allen Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Dec 23 21:16:53 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:16:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Cool Photo sequence Message-ID: <20071224042513.SRMG28314.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> These photos were taken at our November Enduro event at Firebird's Main track. These were taken during the Qualifying session. Cool sequence entering the Tower Turn. Doing about 55.9 mph and pulling 1.61 G's at this point according to our data acquisition computer. You can see them really leaning their heads into the corner as Tyler (#18) and Rich (#54) try to cut under the kart in front of them with a tighter line. http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4119.jpg http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4120.jpg http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4121.jpg http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4122.jpg You can then see Tyler has the inside rear wheel WAY OFF the ground in this shot going around the corner on three wheels to cut it even tighter to pass Rich and the kart in front of Rich. The guy that took the photos added a graphic showing how far off the ground the wheel is and added a comment. HeHe... http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4123.jpg Here you can see that his line has changed a ton from doing that. http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=51&lzkfile=Nov_2007_Enduro%2FRSR_4124.jpg Tyler Qualified 3rd out of Top speed at the end of the front straight is 102.3 mph Top RPM: 12,592 Top G load seen: 2.11 Between Turns 9 and 10 the 125cc Shifter karts are in sixth gear doing 90 mph and within 1.7 seconds they will transition from a left hand turn pulling 1.65 G to the right hand turn where they will pull 2.11 G. The absolute highest G I have seen him hit on Firebird was the section entering what is known as the "Concrete Canyon" where he got to 2.65 G Here is a helmet cam video taken during the Qualifying session that same day http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=88 Second Row on the right hand side. The kart you briefly see going off track (it flipped) brought out a black flag right in the middle of the session. From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Mon Dec 24 06:19:42 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:19:42 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 Chainwheels In-Reply-To: <003b01c8440b$7c135570$6700a8c0@Edscomputer> References: <003b01c8440b$7c135570$6700a8c0@Edscomputer> Message-ID: <200712241420.lBOEJtpa115069@ns3.geneseo.net> I use a new chain, a new crank sprocket, and an adjustable cam sprocket so I can more easily degree the cam. A street car doesn't need the luxury of the adjustable sprocket because hopefully it doesn't have to come apart as often as a race car. I find that the new parts are okay, but the cam sprockets do not have the holes drilled the way the old ones did, which allowed you to get the cam timing pretty close. The new ones are drilled exactly symmetrical, so you can only set the timing as close as one tooth difference. I believe you must also put your own mark on it for the next disassembly. At 01:55 PM 12/21/2007, you wrote: >Listers, > >I attempted to fit a new timing chain to a TR4 engine this morning. >It's loose as a goose, so I suspect that new crank and cam >chainwheels are in order, part nos. 55971 and 57113. > >I'm always leery of repro parts, so wonder what's out there for this >application. > >Does anyone have any experience with the currently available items? > >What are the FOT guys using? > >Thanks, > >Ed Woods From tr6nut at verizon.net Mon Dec 24 08:10:03 2007 From: tr6nut at verizon.net (Hugh Barber) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 10:10:03 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Happy Holidays to All of You Message-ID: <476FCBCB.30402@verizon.net> I just wanted to take a moment and wish all of you a very Merry Christmas / Happy Hanukkah / Merry Festivus and a happy and safe New Year. Hugh Barber Stafford, VA '73 TR6 From budscars at msn.com Mon Dec 24 08:21:47 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:21:47 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Happy Holidays to All of You References: <476FCBCB.30402@verizon.net> Message-ID: Thank You!..Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to All! Racer Bud..Sonoma, Ca. 67 Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hugh Barber" To: ; "Triumph List" ; "6pack" <6pack at autox.team.net> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 7:10 AM Subject: [Fot] Happy Holidays to All of You >I just wanted to take a moment and wish all of you a very Merry > Christmas / Happy Hanukkah / Merry Festivus and a happy and safe New Year. > > Hugh Barber > Stafford, VA > '73 TR6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Dec 24 10:32:19 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 17:32:19 GMT Subject: [Fot] Rear Diff Oil Message-ID: <20071224.123219.22135.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com> I use Redline Shockproof Heavy gear oil. I was using the lighter formula until I broke a ring and pinion and was told that the Heavy is better. I have used it with a detriot locker and a Tran-X (salisbury type) diff. I spoke with Redline about what to use with the Tran-X and they said either the light or heavy was good to use. Joe(B) -- Allen Washatko wrote: FoT, What type of rear diff oil are you running when you have either a Quaiffe, Detroit Locker or other such LSD? Have a great holiday! Allen Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____________________________________________________________ Make a difference. Click to start a career in medical administration and increase your income. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijndnNMLjJ6QcyESktlzjp0lg ZKE34yxux15wwviYFzI1IOKv/ From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 24 11:02:59 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 10:02:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications References: <20071224.124426.22135.2@webmail19.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Oops, bounced for over the word limit. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 9:59 AM To: Joe Boruch; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Suspension modifications Sorry, I was being imprecise, didn't know the TR6 ones are different. I'm using these control arm bits (moss): 661-060 $84.95 CONTROL ARM, upper rear TR4 from CT6344 (wire whl.) CT6391 (disc whl.) 661-050 $39.95 CONTROL ARM, upper front TR4 from CT6344 (wire whl.) CT6391 (disc whl.) 661-080 $48.10 BALL JOINT PAIR (w/nut, boot and clip) Note:Permanently lubricated (no grease nipple) TR4 from CT6344 (wire whl.) CT6391 (disc whl.) And these lower trunnions: 661-450 $106.95 TRUNNION, R/H bot. (30 castor) Note: Current trunnion pins are not drilled for cotter pins. Use nyloc nut #310-320 (2 per trunnion). Use grease seal 520-220 with all replacement trunnion TR4 from CT6343, (wire whl.), CT6390 (disc whl.) 661-460 $106.95 TRUNNION, L/H bot. Note: Current trunnion pins are not drilled for cotter pins. Use nyloc nut #310-320 (2 per trunnion). Use grease seal 520-220 with all replacement trunnion TR4 from CT6343, (wire whl.), CT6390 (disc whl.) 1 -----Original Message----- From: Joe Boruch [mailto:jaboruch at netzero.net] Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 9:44 AM To: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications Bill, when you say to use TR6 lower trunnions, do you mean the whole upright? The TR6 Trunions (the brass part that screws onto the bottom of the upright) has a larger thread than the TR3-4-4A ones. Joe(B) - From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Dec 24 11:23:41 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 18:23:41 GMT Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR3's and TR4's Message-ID: <20071224.132341.13626.1@webmail07.dca.untd.com> I received my SCCA 2008 GCR in the mail recently and to my horror I discovered that Triumph TR3's and TR4's were no longer included in the Production Car Specs. SCCA had talked about dropping the TR2 from the PCS since it has been a while since any of them have raced with SCCA. Likely some no mind just eliminated the whole line, including the TR3's and TR4's, rather than only eliminating the TR2. Just in case this was not a clerical error, would all of you FOTers that are SCCA members drop a note to the SCCA to relist TR3's and TR4's. You can email the Competition Board at CRB at SCCA.com. Thanks, Joe(B) _____________________________________________________________ Click now to turn any floor into a dance floor! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlKfLn2bltJf6OMhro07Ab44 I8aFhhleZtmvD3M7eAq9Aqh0/ From wgrosenbach at juno.com Mon Dec 24 12:28:25 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:28:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Track Elevation Changes Message-ID: <20071224.122825.3608.1.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Christmas & assorted - associated Greetings, The following is a link to the bulletin board on the RMVR website containing an item I posted regarding track elevation changes on tracks in North America. http://p092.ezboard.com/frmvrfrm19.showMessage?topicID=39.topic It contains a link to a spreadsheet comparing the tracks. Enjoy, Bill From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 24 13:01:59 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:01:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications References: <000601c84591$aefaddf0$0301000a@Chowdown> <200712241931.lBOJV9b4270273@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: I don't run this modification on Peyote, but I did on my cheater TR3, and I probably will add a version of it to Peyote this year. I made a 1/4" steel plate that holds the pivot point using two countersunk screws to hold the rear of the pivot to the plate. The front pivot bolts go tthrough the original back pivot holes, and the front of the plate bolts to the original front pivot bolt holes. This moves the pivot back the width of the pivot bolt hole spacing--about 1.6 inches as I recall. According to SusProg it's too much, but it's easy to do and it works pretty well. Most of the force against the pivot pushes the plate down against the shock towerr--I never had even a hint of bending or other problems. In fact I forgot to fully tighten the countersunk bolts once and didn't have any problem. Many years ago I recall seeing someone run a TR3 with the pivot moved back and only bolted on the front side through the rear bolt holes--same idea but a much scarier approach. In fact it was the inspiration for my modification. You need to make the upper arms longer to clear the shock tower and give a proper amount of camber, so it makes sense to convert to rose joints and have adjustability. With the stock arms you'd have about four degrees of camber, which is too much for our semi-radial tires. I'm a bit fuzzy on how I set that up, but I recollect it was 3 degrees with Comp TA tires and 3.5 with Yokohama A008's. With the arms set for bias ply tires (0 to 1 degree) I had about two degrees of camber gain at full bump (according to my sketchy notes). -----Original Message----- From: Jack W. Drews [mailto:vinttr4 at geneseo.net] Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 11:30 AM To: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications I agree with everything you've said about the camber change, the excess at full limit, small contact patch at high camber angle, and the advisability of leaving the upper a-arm at least as long as stock -- maybe longer is even better. I'd like to modify my car as you suggest. Last winter I spent some amount of time trying to figure out how to do that and was not successful in figuring it out. I have one photo somewhere of one of your cars, Peyote I think, that looks like the new attaching points are on brackets welded to the front and back of the tower and braced at least in the rear to the diagonal brace to the rear. My problem was trying to figure out how to do that on a car with stock bodywork without removing the body. Any suggestions? From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 24 13:07:51 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:07:51 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications References: <000601c84591$aefaddf0$0301000a@Chowdown><200712241931.lBOJV9b4270273@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: Here's a hint that goes along with this. When you want to adjust the heim (rose) joints just remove the two bolts that hold the upper arm to the ball joint and turn the arms in or out to adjust. I'm still embarrassed about how long ti took me to figure that one out. I was disassembling half the car to make the adjustments. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Bill Babcock Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 12:01 PM To: Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications I don't run this modification on Peyote, but I did on my cheater TR3, and I probably will add a version of it to Peyote this year. I made a 1/4" steel plate that holds the pivot point using two countersunk screws to hold the rear of the pivot to the plate. The front pivot bolts go tthrough the original back pivot holes, and the front of the plate bolts to the original front pivot bolt holes. This moves the pivot back the width of the pivot bolt hole spacing--about 1.6 inches as I recall. According to SusProg it's too much, but it's easy to do and it works pretty well. Most of the force against the pivot pushes the plate down against the shock towerr--I never had even a hint of bending or other problems. In fact I forgot to fully tighten the countersunk bolts once and didn't have any problem. Many years ago I recall seeing someone run a TR3 with the pivot moved back and only bolted on the front side through the rear bolt holes--same idea but a much scarier approach. In fact it was the inspiration for my modification. You need to make the upper arms longer to clear the shock tower and give a proper amount of camber, so it makes sense to convert to rose joints and have adjustability. With the stock arms you'd have about four degrees of camber, which is too much for our semi-radial tires. I'm a bit fuzzy on how I set that up, but I recollect it was 3 degrees with Comp TA tires and 3.5 with Yokohama A008's. With the arms set for bias ply tires (0 to 1 degree) I had about two degrees of camber gain at full bump (according to my sketchy notes). -----Original Message----- From: Jack W. Drews [mailto:vinttr4 at geneseo.net] Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 11:30 AM To: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications I agree with everything you've said about the camber change, the excess at full limit, small contact patch at high camber angle, and the advisability of leaving the upper a-arm at least as long as stock -- maybe longer is even better. I'd like to modify my car as you suggest. Last winter I spent some amount of time trying to figure out how to do that and was not successful in figuring it out. I have one photo somewhere of one of your cars, Peyote I think, that looks like the new attaching points are on brackets welded to the front and back of the tower and braced at least in the rear to the diagonal brace to the rear. My problem was trying to figure out how to do that on a car with stock bodywork without removing the body. Any suggestions? Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From awashatko at wi.rr.com Mon Dec 24 14:53:42 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:53:42 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Holiday Greetings Message-ID: <4b8121c2fa55f1479b5a25ed4686e193@wi.rr.com> FoT, Just wanted to stop and wish all of you a joyous and fulfilling holiday. I also wanted to thank everyone for their many responses and valuable contributions to my email questions as well as others over the past year. It really makes this "British endeavor" easier and much more enjoyable! Peace, Allen Allen & Jody Washatko 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From dave at microworks.net Mon Dec 24 15:02:31 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:02:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Message-ID: <20071224220710.ZOX18667.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a brilliant TR6. http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 Top video on the page From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 24 15:44:59 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:44:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... In-Reply-To: <20071224220710.ZOX18667.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <935155.47093.qm@web81111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> but .... shoveling snow in wisconsin is soooooooo much more fun .. "David W. Riddle" wrote: Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a brilliant TR6. http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 Top video on the page Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From westerneagleracing at att.net Mon Dec 24 16:51:39 2007 From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:51:39 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Message-ID: <122420072351.4830.4770460B00021410000012DE22193100029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Happy Holidays to All. Its 60 degrees in Marin County California and if the garage was open I would take my racing TR4 out (it is "street legal") (well it at least has a license plate). Gary, are you driving the ex-Ron Jacobs TR6? Ron Jacobs, Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from "David W. Riddle" : -------------- > Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a > brilliant TR6. > > http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 > > Top video on the page > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jerrybarr at charter.net Mon Dec 24 17:12:21 2007 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 18:12:21 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... In-Reply-To: <122420072351.4830.4770460B00021410000012DE22193100029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> References: <122420072351.4830.4770460B00021410000012DE22193100029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: I live in Door County Wisconsin which sticks out into Lake Michigan It is 25 degrees with 4 inches of fresh snow today. The previous storm we had 6 inches of wind driven snow with gusts to 50 mph and gusts to 80 mph out on the lake. I'm trying to think of why I stay here in the winter. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!! On Dec 24, 2007, at 5:51 PM, westerneagleracing at att.net wrote: > Happy Holidays to All. > > Its 60 degrees in Marin County California and if the garage was open > I would take my racing TR4 out (it is "street legal") (well it at > least has a license plate). > > Gary, are you driving the ex-Ron Jacobs TR6? > > Ron Jacobs, Western Eagle Racing > > -------------- Original message from "David W. Riddle" >: -------------- > > >> Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a >> brilliant TR6. >> >> http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 >> >> Top video on the page >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 24 20:00:27 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:00:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Message-ID: <0237B765.04D7B122.00159EE9@cs.com> two hours behind a brilliant snowblower here. >Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a >brilliant TR6. > >http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 > >Top video on the page >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From SMITH1127 at aol.com Mon Dec 24 21:33:07 2007 From: SMITH1127 at aol.com (SMITH1127 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:33:07 EST Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Message-ID: I changed out a faulty generator in the TR3B and took it for a quick open car ride to make sure all was well. Filed my fingernails on the pavement while looking at the snow on Mauna Loa and Mauna Kea. Yeah, its Hawaii, but somebody's got to do it.....Mele Kalikimaka! Robert **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Dec 24 22:21:22 2007 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:21:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... References: <122420072351.4830.4770460B00021410000012DE22193100029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: To Ron & all of you, a Blessed time to you all & yours. Ron, please say hello to my home town "The city by the Bay". The snow is almost melted here with a 50% chance of a dusting for Christmas day. (only in Colo.) Kev Lynch GT6 #6 RMVR ----- Original Message ----- From: westerneagleracing at att.net To: David W. Riddle Cc: wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Happy Holidays to All. Its 60 degrees in Marin County California and if the garage was open I would take my racing TR4 out (it is "street legal") (well it at least has a license plate). Gary, are you driving the ex-Ron Jacobs TR6? Ron Jacobs, Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from "David W. Riddle" >: -------------- > Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a > brilliant TR6. > > http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 > > Top video on the page > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 25 00:11:15 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:11:15 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... References: Message-ID: Mele Kalikimaka indeed. I;ll be back in Maui on January 3rd, thank god. Rainy and crappy in Portland. Egg Nog, a fire, family and friends makes it worthwhile, but I'm looking forward to surfing my guts out. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of SMITH1127 at aol.com Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 8:33 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com; dave at microworks.net; fot at autox.team.net; wheeltowheel at wheeltowheel.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Eat your heart out... I changed out a faulty generator in the TR3B and took it for a quick open car ride to make sure all was well. Filed my fingernails on the pavement while looking at the snow on Mauna Loa and Mauna Kea. Yeah, its Hawaii, but somebody's got to do it.....Mele Kalikimaka! Robert **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Tue Dec 25 00:45:20 2007 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 02:45:20 EST Subject: [Fot] God rest ye Merry Gentemen Message-ID: I just wanted to say, Yueltide Greetings, Compliments of the Season, and a Very Merry Christmas to one and all at this Festive Time. God Bless you one and all. Leon F Guyot Medford, OR From gp89 at charter.net Tue Dec 25 07:01:59 2007 From: gp89 at charter.net (gp89 at charter.net) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 6:01:59 -0800 Subject: [Fot] From the SCCA Prodcar forum In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071225090159.LXO7P.121597.root@fepweb08> prodracing.com Forum Index prodracing.com Unofficial SCCA Production Car Racing Message Board Visit the Colorado Region SCCA FAQFAQ SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist UsergroupsUsergroups RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL.... Post new topic Reply to topic prodracing.com Forum Index -> General Discussion View previous topic :: View next topic Author Message Lesley Joined: 05 Jun 2006 Posts: 56 Location: Anadarko, Oklahoma PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL.... Reply with quote THE GIFT Author Unknown T'WAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS, HE LIVED ALL ALONE, IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE MADE OF PLASTER AND STONE. I HAD COME DOWN THE CHIMNEY WITH PRESENTS TO GIVE, AND TO SEE JUST WHO IN THIS HOME DID LIVE. I LOOKED ALL ABOUT, A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE, NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS, NOT EVEN A TREE. NO STOCKING BY MANTLE, JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND, ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURES OF FAR DISTANT LANDS. WITH MEDALS AND BADGES, AWARDS OF ALL KINDS, A SOBER THOUGHT CAME THROUGH MY MIND. FOR THIS HOUSE WAS DIFFERENT, IT WAS DARK AND DREARY, I FOUND THE HOME OF A SOLDIER, ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY. THE SOLDIER LAY SLEEPING, SILENT, ALONE, CURLED UP ON THE FLOOR IN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME. THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE, THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER, NOT HOW I PICTURED A UNITED STATES SOLDIER. WAS THIS THE HERO OF WHOM I'D JUST READ? CURLED UP ON A PONCHO, THE FLOOR FOR A BED? I REALIZED THE FAMILIES THAT I SAW THIS NIGHT, OWED THEIR LIVES TO THESE SOLDIERS WHO WERE WILLING TO FIGHT. SOON ROUND THE WORLD, THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY, AND GROWNUPS WOULD CELEBRATE A BRIGHT CHRISTMAS DAY. THEY ALL ENJOYED FREEDOM EACH MONTH OF THE YEAR, BECAUSE OF THE SOLDIERS, LIKE THE ONE LYING HERE. I COULDN'T HELP WONDER HOW MANY LAY ALONE, ON A COLD CHRISTMAS EVE IN A LAND FAR FROM HOME. THE VERY THOUGHT BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE, I DROPPED TO MY KNEES AND STARTED TO CRY. THE SOLDIER AWAKENED AND I HEARD A ROUGH VOICE, "SANTA DON'T CRY, THIS LIFE IS MY CHOICE; I FIGHT FOR FREEDOM, I DON'T ASK FOR MORE, MY LIFE IS MY GOD, MY COUNTRY, MY CORPS." THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER AND SOON DRIFTED TO SLEEP, I COULDN'T CONTROL IT, I CONTINUED TO WEEP. I KEPT WATCH FOR HOURS, SO SILENT AND STILL AND WE BOTH SHIVERED FROM THE COLD NIGHT'S CHILL. I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE ON THAT COLD, DARK, NIGHT, THIS GUARDIAN OF HONOR SO WILLING TO FIGHT. THEN THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER, WITH A VOICE SOFT AND PURE, WHISPERED, "CARRY ON SANTA, IT'S CHRISTMAS DAY, ALL IS SECURE." ONE LOOK AT MY WATCH, AND I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT. "MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FRIEND, AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT." Back to top From twakeman at razzolink.com Tue Dec 25 07:06:15 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 06:06:15 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47710E57.7060106@razzolink.com> My TR3 took my housemate and I out to breakfast on the 24th. That evening the top came off, we bundled up and drove into Monterey to look at Christmas lights in the TR3. Some Land Rover friends and I have a New Years tradition that goes back over a decade now. To end the year out on the trail driving our Land Rovers with friends, camping and enjoying each others company bundled up around the camp fire (usually below freezing at nights). Then to start the new year out on the trail driving our Land Rovers, being close to nature with good friends. We drive the Mojave trail over New Years. If you are a Land Rover off road type, it seems a fitting way to end a year and a promising way to begin a new year. A Happy Christmas to all and an auspicious New year! TeriAnn From twakeman at razzolink.com Tue Dec 25 07:06:15 2007 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 06:06:15 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47710E57.3000104@razzolink.com> My TR3 took my housemate and I out to breakfast on the 24th. That evening the top came off, we bundled up and drove into Monterey to look at Christmas lights in the TR3. Some Land Rover friends and I have a New Years tradition that goes back over a decade now. To end the year out on the trail driving our Land Rovers with friends, camping and enjoying each others company bundled up around the camp fire (usually below freezing at nights). Then to start the new year out on the trail driving our Land Rovers, being close to nature with good friends. We drive the Mojave trail over New Years. If you are a Land Rover off road type, it seems a fitting way to end a year and a promising way to begin a new year. A Happy Christmas to all and an auspicious New year! TeriAnn From billdentin at aol.com Tue Dec 25 07:26:15 2007 From: billdentin at aol.com (billdentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 09:26:15 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... In-Reply-To: References: <122420072351.4830.4770460B00021410000012DE22193100029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: <8CA15193DED9734-CCC-761@Webmail-mg21.sysops.aol.com> Yeap...I'm a Wisconsin boy myself.? White Christmas is a given.? But three of my four children and their families live?300 miles northwest in the Twin Cities (Minnesota).? Now THAT's winter, and that's where I am.? They have two seasons.? Winter and 4th of July.? Ho ho ho. Merry Christmas and warmest holiday wishes to one and all. Bill (Damdinger)? -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Barr To: westerneagleracing at att.net Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 6:12 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Eat your heart out... I live in Door County Wisconsin which sticks out into Lake Michigan It is 25 degrees with 4 inches of fresh snow today. The previous storm we had 6 inches of wind driven snow with gusts to 50 mph and gusts to 80 mph out on the lake. I'm trying to think of why I stay here in the winter. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!! On Dec 24, 2007, at 5:51 PM, westerneagleracing at att.net wrote: > Happy Holidays to All. > > Its 60 degrees in Marin County California and if the garage was open > I would take my racing TR4 out (it is "street legal") (well it at > least has a license plate). > > Gary, are you driving the ex-Ron Jacobs TR6? > > Ron Jacobs, Western Eagle Racing > > -------------- Original message from "David W. Riddle" >: -------------- > > >> Typical December day in the Phoenix area and going for a drive in a >> brilliant TR6. >> >> http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22 >> >> Top video on the page >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com From wgrosenbach at juno.com Tue Dec 25 08:24:20 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 08:24:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Eat your heart out... Message-ID: <20071225.082420.2508.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> >>>To Ron & all of you, a Blessed time to you all & yours. Ron, please say hello to my home town "The city by the Bay". The snow is almost melted here with a 50% chance of a dusting for Christmas day. (only in Colo.) Kev Lynch GT6 #6 RMVR Woke up to almost 4 inches of 'dust' this morning! Still snowing. Bing would be proud. Must be Santa's magic dust. Chains required. Spitfire would go through most anything with chains. Merry Christmas, Bill From kaskas at cox.net Tue Dec 25 09:03:49 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 08:03:49 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise Message-ID: <006a01c8470f$bca4d620$3f0ec548@RW> Okay, so it is not deep snow , but instead brilliant sunshine but Santa still comes this way as his new sled has wheels for certain parts of the country. .......a Merry Christmas to all and remember to pat your TR on this day. As a surprise, I have a small gift for everyone who races: This message when dissolved in 105 octane gasoline is worth 11 horsepower and another 400 rpm in top gear. Do not destroy or attempt to sell as it only applies to the original owner. ( the racing elves keep close accounting) I suggest saving this assistance until a time of real need in 2008. From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Tue Dec 25 10:59:44 2007 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:59:44 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise References: <006a01c8470f$bca4d620$3f0ec548@RW> Message-ID: <001401c8471f$ef5c6ff0$6401a8c0@Elliott> A week ago, some local rally experts were checking out the rally route for an up-coming rally to be held in January. They were driving in the Laurentian mountains (more like hills) north of Montreal (not too far from Mont Tremblant race track) and during the night, they saw 7 reindeer along the sides of the road, on top of the 8 foot high snow banks and in the snow canyon in the road that was formed by the high snowbanks. They thought that Santa Claus had come early and had lost 7/8th of his reindeer-power. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 11:03 AM Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise > Okay, so it is not deep snow , but instead brilliant sunshine but Santa > still > comes this way as his new sled has wheels for certain parts of the > country. > > .......a Merry Christmas to all and remember to pat your TR on this day. > As a > surprise, I have a small gift for everyone who races: > > This message when dissolved in 105 octane gasoline is worth 11 horsepower > and > another 400 rpm in top gear. Do not destroy or attempt to sell as it only > applies to the original owner. ( the racing elves keep close accounting) > > I suggest saving this assistance until a time of real need in 2008. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 25 11:17:34 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 10:17:34 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise References: <006a01c8470f$bca4d620$3f0ec548@RW> Message-ID: I tried to print it, but my inkjet caught fire and is now serving as a smelly replacement for the yule log. Then I tried to pat Peyote and laid my finger open on a new aluminum panel that I forgot to deburr. I don't think Peyote responds well to patting. Back to the egg nog. Note to self--doubling the amount of rum is not a good idea. No one else will drink it, and I don't like to see it go to waste... I'm not going to be able to go for a post-prandial drive, Diane has hidden all the keys. Merry, merry. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Kas Kastner Sent: Tue 12/25/2007 8:03 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise Okay, so it is not deep snow , but instead brilliant sunshine but Santa still comes this way as his new sled has wheels for certain parts of the country. .......a Merry Christmas to all and remember to pat your TR on this day. As a surprise, I have a small gift for everyone who races: This message when dissolved in 105 octane gasoline is worth 11 horsepower and another 400 rpm in top gear. Do not destroy or attempt to sell as it only applies to the original owner. ( the racing elves keep close accounting) I suggest saving this assistance until a time of real need in 2008. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 25 11:17:57 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 10:17:57 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise References: <006a01c8470f$bca4d620$3f0ec548@RW> Message-ID: On a positive note, with all these grandkids running around and guests swapping lies at the top of their voices, 110 octane eggnog is an excellent tranquilizer. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Bill Babcock Sent: Tue 12/25/2007 10:17 AM To: Kas Kastner; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Christmas surprise I tried to print it, but my inkjet caught fire and is now serving as a smelly replacement for the yule log. Then I tried to pat Peyote and laid my finger open on a new aluminum panel that I forgot to deburr. I don't think Peyote responds well to patting. Back to the egg nog. Note to self--doubling the amount of rum is not a good idea. No one else will drink it, and I don't like to see it go to waste... I'm not going to be able to go for a post-prandial drive, Diane has hidden all the keys. Merry, merry. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Kas Kastner Sent: Tue 12/25/2007 8:03 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise Okay, so it is not deep snow , but instead brilliant sunshine but Santa still comes this way as his new sled has wheels for certain parts of the country. .......a Merry Christmas to all and remember to pat your TR on this day. As a surprise, I have a small gift for everyone who races: This message when dissolved in 105 octane gasoline is worth 11 horsepower and another 400 rpm in top gear. Do not destroy or attempt to sell as it only applies to the original owner. ( the racing elves keep close accounting) I suggest saving this assistance until a time of real need in 2008. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tstrange at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 25 11:35:09 2007 From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 10:35:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <35717.63000.qm@web81106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> AH HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! So, thats why mine printed twice when I sent it to the printer ... patten #4 on the dash & told her I'd get her a new engine before spring ... she just purred ... Bill Babcock wrote: I tried to print it, but my inkjet caught fire and is now serving as a smelly replacement for the yule log. Then I tried to pat Peyote and laid my finger open on a new aluminum panel that I forgot to deburr. I don't think Peyote responds well to patting. Back to the egg nog. Note to self--doubling the amount of rum is not a good idea. No one else will drink it, and I don't like to see it go to waste... I'm not going to be able to go for a post-prandial drive, Diane has hidden all the keys. Merry, merry. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Kas Kastner Sent: Tue 12/25/2007 8:03 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise Okay, so it is not deep snow , but instead brilliant sunshine but Santa still comes this way as his new sled has wheels for certain parts of the country. .......a Merry Christmas to all and remember to pat your TR on this day. As a surprise, I have a small gift for everyone who races: This message when dissolved in 105 octane gasoline is worth 11 horsepower and another 400 rpm in top gear. Do not destroy or attempt to sell as it only applies to the original owner. ( the racing elves keep close accounting) I suggest saving this assistance until a time of real need in 2008. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire From BillB at bnj.com Tue Dec 25 13:34:53 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:34:53 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise References: <006a01c8470f$bca4d620$3f0ec548@RW> <001401c8471f$ef5c6ff0$6401a8c0@Elliott> Message-ID: Wow, suddenly it started snowing up here on top of the hill. Big fat flakes--looks like we're in a snow globe. I think it's probably raining on the valley floor, but we're getting a blizzard. How perfect is that!?! The in-laws bailed early because our driveway is treacherous with even a dusting of snow. I don't think it's going to stick, but if it does their car would turn into a toboggan. So we're down to grandkids, my daughter and son-in-law. The noise level has decreased dramatically. I'll post some pictures on www.allaluminumtour.com: Nero with a layer of snow--how christmassy. From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Dec 25 15:31:25 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:31:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise -It really works! Message-ID: <5966644C-4733-467E-85E1-9A1FBDF2B609@earthlink.net> WOW! Does this stuff work! Printed the message and just couldn't help myself... Had to try a bit. Put 2 periods and a parenthesis in my snowmobile and went for a ride. What fun!! Seat of the snow pants says the extra power is there on demand. Ran out of guts before I ran out of straightaway to test the top end but I'm a believer. Passed some old codger out on the trail who's sled had apparently broken down - he was wearing the funniest snowmobile suit I've ever seen [all red with ridiculous white fur] and being towed by a bunch of quadrupeds one of which had a red flashing light [New Mexico law says that any vehicle being towed must display at least one flashing light]. Anyway, as I came up behind him, he looked over his right shoulder as I passed him on the left. At that point I was going so fast I don't think he ever saw me!! Great stuff Kas, I'll save the rest and use only when absolutely necessary. All the best to you, yours and all the FoT who make this list what it is. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM P.S. Going out now to give the Plum Pi a pat on the fender. From budscars at msn.com Tue Dec 25 16:12:41 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:12:41 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise -It really works! References: <5966644C-4733-467E-85E1-9A1FBDF2B609@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Woooohooo!..My bet is the Driver of the snowmobile enjoyed some Eggnog beforehand!.. Merry Christmas Great People! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg - Lunker Hilyer" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 2:31 PM Subject: [Fot] Christmas surprise -It really works! > WOW! Does this stuff work! Printed the message and just couldn't help > myself... Had to try a bit. Put 2 periods and a parenthesis in my > snowmobile and went for a ride. What fun!! Seat of the snow pants > says the extra power is there on demand. Ran out of guts before I ran > out of straightaway to test the top end but I'm a believer. Passed > some old codger out on the trail who's sled had apparently broken > down - he was wearing the funniest snowmobile suit I've ever seen > [all red with ridiculous white fur] and being towed by a bunch of > quadrupeds one of which had a red flashing light [New Mexico law says > that any vehicle being towed must display at least one flashing light]. > Anyway, as I came up behind him, he looked over his right shoulder as > I passed him on the left. At that point I was going so fast I don't > think he ever saw me!! > Great stuff Kas, I'll save the rest and use only when absolutely > necessary. > All the best to you, yours and all the FoT who make this list what it > is. > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > > P.S. Going out now to give the Plum Pi a pat on the fender. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From triosan at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 17:04:25 2007 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 16:04:25 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8cbd782d0712251604m6a109764w3371772ede7afde7@mail.gmail.com> Bill. thanks for the postand the advice. The advantage of adding rose jounts at the end of the a-arms is that you can adjust them to any length. On the TR6, I tried moving thebgall joint in about 3/8 inch because the DPO had welded the lower arm mount in so I could not shim it in the ususal 6 manner. Even this amount took me from 0 camber to too much [according to the temps]. Now, on bump steer. I thoughtthe theory was to keep the lwer A arm and the tie rod arm parllel. Just adjusted the streert car's sway bar. Did this with the bar completely unloaded, then dropped the front onto my wheel ramps. While adjusting the sway bar, I took the time to observe how the tie rod bolted into the steering arm. It was slanted down hill about 25-30 degrees. Indeed, the arm on the hub that the tie rod joint goes into is slandted down to accomplish this. Any idea of the "Why" of this design and if it makes sense to lessen the amount of drop. Some one of these days I will actually have most of a car ready such that I can play around with the TR6 and bunp steer. Anyone out there have any advice? On Dec 23, 2007 1:24 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 12/23/2007 12:30:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > BillB at bnj.com writes: > > > I've harped on this before, but the bump steer in these cars is horrific. > You > can work to eliminate that and have a car that works so much better you > won't > believe the difference. Once you do that you can soften those springs and > let > the suspension work some. Makes another huge difference. > > > > Amen! > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Chuck Arnold From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Tue Dec 25 22:42:22 2007 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:42:22 -0800 Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" Message-ID: <000801c84782$1d3c70c0$0300000a@oemcomputer> I just finished reading the book written by Sam Moses that was mentioned Dec.15'th by Ted. It is great! I had trouble putting it down! If you liked "The Last Open Road" by Burt Levy, you will like this book!. I can not imagine the "Racer" who would not truly enjoy this read. I strongly recommend it. G reg Solow From jerrybarr at charter.net Wed Dec 26 15:16:11 2007 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:16:11 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Item listed on ebay Message-ID: <1792BEDE-C769-4140-B9E3-80A848BB3D80@charter.net> I just listed a new Quaife Torque Biasing Differential that fits the GT6, Spitfire, TR7 4 speed, Lotus 7 and austin Marina. Item # 260197230272 Thanks, Jerry Barr From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Dec 26 15:20:36 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:20:36 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers Message-ID: FoT, I need some input regarding the use of roller rockers on a race prepared TR6. If you are running a cam with .500 lift and 300 degrees duration, does the use of a higher ration roller rocker (1.65) really add that much more power? This is assuming that the head is well ported and you are running the largest intake/exhaust valves that fit in the head. I was just made aware of some engine testing recently that indicated that there was only a 2 h.p. gain by using roller rockers with the above modifications. It also indicated that the increased ratio caused more wear on the cam, tappets, etc. The logic as presented seems to be that you can only draw so much flow through the head before you get diminishing returns. Any thoughts on this? Allen Allen & Jody Washatko 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From BillB at bnj.com Wed Dec 26 15:56:52 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:56:52 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers References: Message-ID: Not that I'm trying to tell you how to suck eggs, but the primary reasons for using roller rockers are to decrease side thrust on the valve stems, reduce friction in the valve train (pin bearing in the rocker and a roller) and reduce reciprocating weight. The only way that translates into higher horsepower is to take advantage of the opportunities these factors enable. A lot of speed equipment is sold to people with no plan to take advantage of the factors the equipment was invented to improve. If your cam won't benefit from a higher rocker ratio then you won't gain anything from it. If you're not prepared to experiment with shorter intake valve guides to improve flow then the reduced side thrust won't give more horsepower, just better guide wear--which none of us care about. You can get a lot of horsepower from roller rockers, but not by bolting them on. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Allen Washatko Sent: Wed 12/26/2007 2:20 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers FoT, I need some input regarding the use of roller rockers on a race prepared TR6. If you are running a cam with .500 lift and 300 degrees duration, does the use of a higher ration roller rocker (1.65) really add that much more power? This is assuming that the head is well ported and you are running the largest intake/exhaust valves that fit in the head. I was just made aware of some engine testing recently that indicated that there was only a 2 h.p. gain by using roller rockers with the above modifications. It also indicated that the increased ratio caused more wear on the cam, tappets, etc. The logic as presented seems to be that you can only draw so much flow through the head before you get diminishing returns. Any thoughts on this? Allen Allen & Jody Washatko 1971 TR6 - Number 6 Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jsnook at wcnet.org Wed Dec 26 16:11:55 2007 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:11:55 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" References: <000801c84782$1d3c70c0$0300000a@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <007601c84814$bbbd99d0$83494c61@JeffsNotebook> OK Ted, I need this book, based upon Greg's recommendation. Loved "Last Open Road" got to try this one. Let me know how to order. Thanks, Jeff Snook www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Solow To: Friends of Triumph Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 12:42 AM Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" I just finished reading the book written by Sam Moses that was mentioned Dec.15'th by Ted. It is great! I had trouble putting it down! If you liked "The Last Open Road" by Burt Levy, you will like this book!. I can not imagine the "Racer" who would not truly enjoy this read. I strongly recommend it. G reg Solow _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Dec 26 17:12:40 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:12:40 EST Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" Message-ID: Got mine today...it is looking like a good read. Thanks Ted. Where do I send money? Joe > OK Ted, I need this book, based upon Greg's recommendation. Loved "Last > Open > Road" got to try this one. Let me know how to order. > > Thanks, > > Jeff Snook > www.snooksdreamcars.com > From Gt6steve at aol.com Wed Dec 26 17:26:44 2007 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:26:44 EST Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" Message-ID: I was wondering the same thing? Did I miss the advert? ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Dec 26 17:41:07 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:41:07 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bill, That being said, the dyno tests involved a fully developed race engine run with stock rockers and again with roller rockers. The difference was 2 h.p. - maybe a 1-2% difference overall. Hardly close to a 10% gain as some promise as a bolt on improvement (I would assume that this figure is for a stock situation). It is clear that the pin bearing and roller will reduce friction but the increased leverage will also add more work at the tappet end. As in everything, there is a limit to improvement. As machines become more refined, the next increment of improvement usually becomes smaller and more difficult to obtain. My point in asking the original question was whether or not roller rockers really added more horsepower due to a longer valve duration assuming that all the other bases were covered - friction aside. I would assume that there is a limit to just how much air/fuel mixture you can suck through a Triumph head as fully developed as it may be. The dyno test would seem to suggest that. Allen On Dec 26, 2007, at 4:56 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Not that I'm trying to tell you how to suck eggs, but the primary > reasons for > using roller rockers are to decrease side thrust on the valve stems, > reduce > friction in the valve train (pin bearing in the rocker and a roller) > and > reduce reciprocating weight. The only way that translates into higher > horsepower is to take advantage of the opportunities these factors > enable. A > lot of speed equipment is sold to people with no plan to take > advantage of the > factors the equipment was invented to improve. If your cam won't > benefit from > a higher rocker ratio then you won't gain anything from it. If you're > not > prepared to experiment with shorter intake valve guides to improve > flow then > the reduced side thrust won't give more horsepower, just better guide > wear--which none of us care about. > > You can get a lot of horsepower from roller rockers, but not by > bolting them > on. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Allen > Washatko > Sent: Wed 12/26/2007 2:20 PM > To: Friends of Triumph > Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers > > FoT, > > I need some input regarding the use of roller rockers on a race > prepared TR6. If you are running a cam with .500 lift and 300 degrees > duration, does the use of a higher ration roller rocker (1.65) really > add that much more power? This is assuming that the head is well ported > and you are running the largest intake/exhaust valves that fit in the > head. I was just made aware of some engine testing recently that > indicated that there was only a 2 h.p. gain by using roller rockers > with the above modifications. It also indicated that the increased > ratio caused more wear on the cam, tappets, etc. The logic as presented > seems to be that you can only draw so much flow through the head > before you get diminishing returns. Any thoughts on this? > > Allen > > > Allen & Jody Washatko > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Dec 26 18:18:26 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:18:26 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers on TR6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200712270118.lBR1IfKl333687@ns3.geneseo.net> Roller rockers are subject to a lot of debate, aren't they? I've not seen actual dyno numbers that are meaningful, but I'd like to. My two cents is based on flow bench readings. What I have seen is that flow increases with valve lift at an expected rate until you get to between .500 and .600 lift. The heads I've done maxed out on flow at between those two numbers, with only 3 to 4 cfm increase in flow when increasing it above .500 lift. It appears that the rest of the intake tract, namely port shape and valve size, reach their limits before valve lift becomes limiting. It's a different story if you compare flow rates of solid vs. roller rockers on a stock cam. In that situation, the max lift on a stock cam is much lower so roller rockers give more of an advantage. From vinttr4 at geneseo.net Wed Dec 26 18:21:19 2007 From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:21:19 -0600 Subject: [Fot] further on roller rockers Message-ID: <200712270121.lBR1LX7c365115@ns3.geneseo.net> I talked with one manufacturer of roller rockers at the last PRI show who said that their high speed filming of roller rocker action showed that the roller actually slides across the end of the valve as opposed to rolling, as we would expect. Interesting, huh? uncle jack From budscars at msn.com Wed Dec 26 18:49:13 2007 From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:49:13 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD Message-ID: Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on Ebay...Even if you have no intention of buying anything..It's worth looking at for the aesthetic value..I have had it for close to 20 years., and the story behind it is great.I listed it previously, at a higher price.. my Ebay user name is budscarco the dash is item #120182115060 Racer Bud From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Dec 26 19:05:31 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:05:31 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers on TR6 In-Reply-To: <200712270118.lBR1IfKl333687@ns3.geneseo.net> References: <200712270118.lBR1IfKl333687@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <85599736ebdaebc7ec44b5bd69d90cd4@wi.rr.com> Jack, Do you know what the cfm flow rate was up to .500 lift? It would be interesting to know the percentage of change. The test I was mentioning found the same to be true - that lift over .500 had a diminishing return on h.p. due to flow. Thanks for your valuable input. Allen On Dec 26, 2007, at 7:18 PM, Jack W. Drews wrote: > Roller rockers are subject to a lot of debate, aren't they? I've not > seen actual dyno numbers that are meaningful, but I'd like to. > > My two cents is based on flow bench readings. > > What I have seen is that flow increases with valve lift at an > expected rate until you get to between .500 and .600 lift. The heads > I've done maxed out on flow at between those two numbers, with only > 3 to 4 cfm increase in flow when increasing it above .500 lift. It > appears that the rest of the intake tract, namely port shape and > valve size, reach their limits before valve lift becomes limiting. > > It's a different story if you compare flow rates of solid vs. roller > rockers on a stock cam. In that situation, the max lift on a stock > cam is much lower so roller rockers give more of an advantage. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Jody & Allen Washatko N65 W5567 Columbia Road Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 From BillB at bnj.com Wed Dec 26 19:22:00 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:22:00 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers on TR6 References: <200712270118.lBR1IfKl333687@ns3.geneseo.net> <85599736ebdaebc7ec44b5bd69d90cd4@wi.rr.com> Message-ID: This got bounced for being over the limit. 4KB indeed. I type with BOTH hands. >>The benefit of reducing rocker friction isn't overall engine efficiency, just as reducing the rocker weight isn't an overall weight reduction issue. Skip that second donut and you'd be way ahead for a lot less money. It's all about making life easier for the tappet, camshaft, and the valve so that you can either make the head flow better or rev the engine higher. So to answer the original question as succinctly as possible, you can do much, much better than 2% with roller rockers if the overall engine has been designed to have roller rockers. If not, then you won't. A high performance racing engine designed for standard rockers probably won't benefit from roller rockers to a large degree. But a good cam designer knowing exactly what's going to be in the engine can shape a more radical profile for a roller rocker than a stock one, accelerating the valve more harshly, and holding it at maximum lift longer. Just as they can if they know you're going to have roller followers (only moreso). The head porting guy that knows you're using a roller rocker with properly and precisely set valve geometry can eliminate the valve guide from the intake port, knowing that the remaining stub is going to be enough. As with any other flowing system, as the valve gets open further, it has less influence on flow. Its why you don't use a gate valve to throttle and why carbs flow about the same from 3/4 to full opening. It's pretty well understood that the value of the higher rocker ratio isn't really ultimate lift, it's acceleration during the early part of the opening cycle. Given that rocker ratio doesn't influence duration of the cam, or the point that it begins to open, it does have an effect on early flow since the valve is accelerating faster. The problem with conversing with me about this is that I'm re-reading the Engine Builder's Handbook, and trying to translate all the great V8 knowledge in that book to puny tractor motors. A frustrating practice that makes it impossible for me to look at any individual part without considering the entire system. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Allen Washatko Sent: Wed 12/26/2007 4:41 PM To: Bill Babcock; Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Roller Rockers Bill, That being said, the dyno tests involved a fully developed race engine run with stock rockers and again with roller rockers. The difference was 2 h.p. - maybe a 1-2% difference overall. Hardly close to a 10% gain as some promise as a bolt on improvement (I would assume that this figure is for a stock situation). It is clear that the pin bearing and roller will reduce friction but the increased leverage will also add more work at the tappet end. As in everything, there is a limit to improvement. As machines become more refined, the next increment of improvement usually becomes smaller and more difficult to obtain. My point in asking the original question was whether or not roller rockers really added more horsepower due to a longer valve duration assuming that all the other bases were covered - friction aside. I would assume that there is a limit to just how much air/fuel mixture you can suck through a Triumph head as fully developed as it may be. The dyno test would seem to suggest that. Allen From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 26 19:42:42 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:42:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Roller rockers Message-ID: While everyone seems obsessed with lift, the real secrets guarded by cam designers is the interaction between duration and lobe center angles. Then you need to figure out how they interact with lift. Look at: http://triumph.hottr6.com/CamBasics.html Shane Ingate, looking for a 4x4 diesel hauler, in NM _________________________________________________________________ im is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real people making a difference. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect From cak at dimebank.com Wed Dec 26 19:50:43 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:50:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers Message-ID: <200712270250.lBR2ohAX015408@moose.dimebank.com> Not to flog a dead horse further, but there are two different things going on here, lumped together as "roller rockers". 1. The interface of the rocker tip to the valve. 2. The rocker ratio. They both have benefits and requirements - but you're only going to see the benefit of #1 on the flow bench (for example). So .. which aspect were you after? From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Dec 26 20:49:43 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:49:43 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers Message-ID: <6079ec4f3d59e1c71dda4e7c4768abca@wi.rr.com> Bill, Got it. I think what both Jack and the test I referred to found, was that head flow was the limiting factor at least for Triumphs. V8's are certainly another story. I'm running a fully ported head with greatly reduced valve guides and profiled 5/16" SS valves. It will be interesting to see what results we get. I'll make a full report next spring. Thanks for the attention. Allen Allen & Jody Washatko 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Wed Dec 26 21:05:20 2007 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:05:20 EST Subject: [Fot] Looking for some things for my new racer Message-ID: I am looking for a couple of 15 x 6 Panasports, a Halon fire system (Prefer entire kit), Kevlar brake pads & shoes, Holley fuel pressure regulator rebuild kit and any spares, front wheel stub axle and spacer kit (Uncle Jack's), magafluxed, nitrided & polished Crankshaft, etc. Thanks, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From Herald948 at aol.com Wed Dec 26 21:17:50 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:17:50 EST Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD Message-ID: In a message dated 12/26/2007 8:49:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, budscars at msn.com writes: Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on Ebay...Even if you have no intention of buying anything..It's worth looking at for the aesthetic value..I have had it for close to 20 years., and the story behind it is great.I listed it previously, at a higher price.. my Ebay user name is budscarco the dash is item #120182115060 MAN, do I wish I had a TR4 right about now...far out! --Andy Mace (still a hippie at heart) *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From triumphs at consolidated.net Wed Dec 26 22:01:34 2007 From: triumphs at consolidated.net (Ken Gano palm top) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:01:34 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would like to buy it, just to donate it to the VTR auction next year :) Kg -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+triumphs=consolidated.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+triumphs=consolidated.net at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 10:18 PM To: budscars at msn.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In a message dated 12/26/2007 8:49:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, budscars at msn.com writes: Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on Ebay...Even if you have no intention of buying anything..It's worth looking at for the aesthetic value..I have had it for close to 20 years., and the story behind it is great.I listed it previously, at a higher price.. my Ebay user name is budscarco the dash is item #120182115060 MAN, do I wish I had a TR4 right about now...far out! --Andy Mace (still a hippie at heart) *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1198 - Release Date: 12/26/2007 5:26 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1198 - Release Date: 12/26/2007 5:26 PM From mark at bradakis.com Wed Dec 26 23:00:19 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:00:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Book "FAST GUYS, RICH GUYS, AND IDIOTS" In-Reply-To: <000801c84782$1d3c70c0$0300000a@oemcomputer> References: <000801c84782$1d3c70c0$0300000a@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <47733F73.2070201@bradakis.com> Got my copy today, haven't started reading it yet. Too much computer stuff to catch up on first! mjb. From dave at microworks.net Thu Dec 27 01:31:43 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 01:31:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Anybody coming to Arizona for the Double National? Message-ID: <20071227083615.KJV18667.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Is anybody on the list(s) coming out to Arizona to run the SCCA Double National or Restricted Regional in January? If it is your first trip to PIR I have a track map with the traditional "line" overlaid on this page: http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=52 Scroll down to find PIR. I also did the other tracks here in Phoenix too if you come out to run these tracks. Click on the Thumbnail to view a LARGE image. From jerrybarr at charter.net Thu Dec 27 07:06:26 2007 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:06:26 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Quaife TBD Message-ID: Hi FOT Folks I received a question from a potential bidder today asking if there were any problems when installing the Quaife unit using a 3.27 GT6 differential. I never tried a 3.27 ring gear, I did try a 3.89 and it worked fine. Anybody have idea? Thanks, Jerry Barr In the North Woods From lang at isis.mit.edu Thu Dec 27 08:15:23 2007 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:15:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Dec 2007, RACER BUD wrote: > Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on Ebay...Even if > you have no intention of buying anything..It's worth looking at for the > aesthetic value..I have had it for close to 20 years., and the story behind it > is great.I listed it previously, at a higher price.. my Ebay user name is > budscarco the dash is item #120182115060 > Racer Bud Was the car in a Cheech and Chong movie? Rasta-TR, mon. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent Consultant MIT IS&T unix-linux-help | Voice:617-253-7438 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lunkercars at earthlink.net Thu Dec 27 09:02:46 2007 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:02:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Perhaps the buyer would be interested in one of my many sets of hallucinogenic gauges. You know... The type that show 84MPH in 1st gear, 157 mpg, a steady 50 psi of oil press [even with engine out of the car] and the perpetual full tank on gas. Greg On Dec 26, 2007, at 6:49 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on > Ebay...Even if > you have no intention of buying anything..It's worth looking at for > the > aesthetic value..I have had it for close to 20 years., and the > story behind it > is great.I listed it previously, at a higher price.. my Ebay user > name is > budscarco the dash is item #120182115060 > Racer Bud > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From herald948 at aol.com Thu Dec 27 09:02:36 2007 From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:02:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA16B908A202CA-8A8-FD6@FWM-M05.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Robert Lang On Wed, 26 Dec 2007, RACER BUD wrote: > Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard on Ebay... Was the car in a Cheech and Chong movie? Rasta-TR, mon. ==AM== I've smoked a Triumph dashboard or two over the years, but it usually was due to a bad electrical connection. (rimshot) (runs and hides) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com From dave at microworks.net Thu Dec 27 09:59:55 2007 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:59:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Added braking zones... Message-ID: <20071227170422.DRRE18667.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> It was mentioned that someone would like to see the braking zones on the track maps. Added them... http://www.southwestkarters.com/?page_id=52 From RYoung at navcomtech.com Thu Dec 27 10:40:41 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:40:41 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR4 DASHBOARD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Hello Gang...I have just listed a very unusual TR4 dashboard > on Ebay... So are the candle & Grateful Dead shirt included ??? fdpnmailgwapp1.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From RYoung at navcomtech.com Thu Dec 27 10:48:01 2007 From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:48:01 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Roller rockers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Look at: > http://triumph.hottr6.com/CamBasics.html Shane, I particularly enjoyed this revelation : "A red hot cam will produce less power than the factory cam if intake, exhaust, compression, etc are all modified to accommodate the cam. " Somehow, I think there is a word or two missing somewhere ... or were you just warning of the dangers of an overheated cam shaft ? Randall fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From cak at dimebank.com Thu Dec 27 10:54:57 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:54:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Quaife TBD Message-ID: <200712271754.lBRHsvMA026384@moose.dimebank.com> > I received a question from a potential bidder today asking if there > were any problems when installing the Quaife unit using a 3.27 GT6 > differential. I never tried a 3.27 ring gear, I did try a 3.89 and it > worked fine. Anybody have idea? It won't fit. From hottr6 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 27 14:08:39 2007 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 16:08:39 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Roller rockers Message-ID: Randall, Yeah, I'm full of it. Glad you caught my faux pas. Shane PS Looking at a 2007 GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax 4x4. > Look at: > http://triumph.hottr6.com/CamBasics.html Shane, I particularly enjoyed this revelation : "A red hot cam will produce less power than the factory cam if intake, exhaust, compression, etc are all modified to accommodate the cam. " Somehow, I think there is a word or two missing somewhere ... or were you just warning of the dangers of an overheated cam shaft ? _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ From rikrock at aol.com Thu Dec 27 14:30:05 2007 From: rikrock at aol.com (rikrock at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 16:30:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications In-Reply-To: References: <000601c84591$aefaddf0$0301000a@Chowdown> <200712241931.lBOJV9b4270273@ns3.geneseo.net> Message-ID: <8CA16E6C8429A6F-8A4-12A7@FWM-D13.sysops.aol.com> Bill, Good stuff, thanks!? Would you (or anyone else)?please explain?exactly how to fix the TR3 bumpsteer? Thanks! Rich Rock ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com From chris at tr4-racing.de Thu Dec 27 14:38:42 2007 From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:38:42 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Quaife TBD Message-ID: <003701c848d0$da94ee50$c1fefea9@HOME> I would say with a 3.27 ringgear you don't need a LDS because the engine won't be strong enough to spin the wheels. Cheers Chris From roadandtrack at bigpond.com Thu Dec 27 20:32:16 2007 From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:32:16 +1000 Subject: [Fot] crankshaft steel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071228033216.IFFO7061.oaamta04sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01> Can anyone confirm the steel grades used in 2500 cranks. I believe the later ones were EN23. what about early TR5/TR6 ones , the crossed drilled type with plugs in it?? Thanks Terry O'Beirne From BillB at bnj.com Thu Dec 27 20:44:03 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:44:03 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Magazine coming along nicely Message-ID: My new eMagazine is coming along nicely. I've built a lot of pretty handy technology into the back end that enables me to manage both feature stories that will be updated monthly and topical news that gets updated whenever. It has form systems that allow readers to upload photos, articles and video as well as the ability to have "reporters" file complete stories--ready to go after editorial approval (that would be me). I've learned and/or relearned a lot of stuff about programming and building web systems getting this going. Lots of fun. And it's nice to know that even though I turn 61 in about a week that I can still learn new things. Too bad though that I forget them by the next day. Now what was that URL? Ah, yes... www.kenalu.com My brother Bob is doing a pretty cool thing with YouTube--building compilations of excellent videos. Click the play button on the "Bob's Featured Videos" section to see how that works. I'm thinking about launching a similar magazine for vintage racing. Maybe a really technical one. Now that I've got the template built it's pretty easy to do one for anything. From awashatko at wi.rr.com Thu Dec 27 21:47:03 2007 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:47:03 -0600 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) Message-ID: <4ca5a847b8583ad77f2a47e463790302@wi.rr.com> FoT, Anybody driving west past or near Chicago/Milwaukee from the east coast who could stop near Reading, PA. and pick up some TR6 body panels? There must be at least a half dozen trips like this in the planning! I won't hold my breath but it's always worth asking. Allen Allen & Jody Washatko 1971 TR6 - Number 6 From tedtsimx at bright.net Fri Dec 28 06:13:59 2007 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 08:13:59 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4774F697.20609@bright.net> Allen Washatko wrote: > FoT, > > I need some input regarding the use of roller rockers on a race > prepared TR6. If you are running a cam with .500 lift and 300 degrees > duration, does the use of a higher ration roller rocker (1.65) really > add that much more power? This is assuming that the head is well ported > and you are running the largest intake/exhaust valves that fit in the > head. I was just made aware of some engine testing recently that > indicated that there was only a 2 h.p. gain by using roller rockers > with the above modifications. It also indicated that the increased > ratio caused more wear on the cam, tappets, etc. The logic as presented > seems to be that you can only draw so much flow through the head > before you get diminishing returns. Any thoughts on this? > > Allen > > > Allen & Jody Washatko > 1971 TR6 - Number 6 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > Allen, Bill B.is correct. The big advantage to roller rockers is reduction of valve stem/valve guide wear. High ratio rockers for your car - 1.65 - greatly increase valve train strain and wear. Even the fastest TR6 in current SCCA Production form is only runing 1.55. We sell a goodly number of roller rockers and do not recomend or sell the 1.65.for your application. Jack Drew's comment about filming roller rocker tips certainly has merit. But, at what enginespeed. The engines in our cars, othe than the small Spit engines, don't see 8500 - 9000 rpm. Ted -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 From walt at hot-tr6.com Fri Dec 28 10:42:20 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:42:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR6 barn find Message-ID: <20071228174344.10F5B187A81@autox.team.net> just when you think all the interesting cars have been picked over I acquired a 1974 TR6 yesterday. It was parked inside close to where I live for the past 12 years. The floor pans are rusty but the frame appears very solid.I don't look at it as a restoration candidate but more of a source of parts for my TR6 racecar project etc. It has 84,000 miles on it and a straight four speed transmission. Both front fenders and the bonnet are banged up but both doors and the rear clip appear good. The front bumper is missing but the rear is in very good condition. Steel wheels, complete engine that still turns over-carbs, air cleaner box etc. I have a clean New Mexico and all I.D. tags. (wink wink- no emissions test) The original color is red. I have some digital pictures that I can forward if needed. If any FOT members could use anything off of this car please contact me. My direct email is: walt at hot-tr6.com My phone number is 1 505 362-4350 Thank You Walt Hollowell Albuquerque, New Mexico From tedtsimx at bright.net Fri Dec 28 13:16:14 2007 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:16:14 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fast Guy's Rich Guy's & Idiots by Sam Moses Message-ID: <4775598E.6020702@bright.net> FOT members, several people have inquired about this book. Her is a copy of my original posting. Obviously the Christmas gift reference is well past but everything else is correct. Thanks for your time. Ted Greetings FOT list community. Here is a Christmas gift idea that also benefits FOT. A friend of mine, Sam Moses, wrote a book in 1986 called "Fast Guys, Rich Guys and Idiots". A chronicle of Sam's racing season. Sam was the motor sports editor for Sports Illustrated. Later on he became associate editor of AutoWeek. "Fast Guys" was sold out in 9 months and not reprinted. Sam has reprinted his book. The book sells for $21.95. But, Sam personalized a group of books for us. These are selling for $24.95 each. Postage approximately $4.75 by priority mail and should reach you in time for Christmas. $3 from each sale will go to the FOT coffers. Buy early, buy often. The following writeup sums up the book very well. I read the book in 1986 when it first came out and liked what I saw about Sam's competitive attitude. A phone call to Sam and 2 months later, he and I won a 24 hour showroom stock race. The write-up below is from the publisher. Thanks for your time. Ted Sam Moses, a motorsports writer for Sports Illustrated, was assigned to go racing and write about what happened. Fast Guys, Rich Guys, and Idiots is a personal odyssey that peers over the cliff of change and into the pit of obsession. From small-time races to glittery grands prix, it lays bare the greed, lust, and desperation of every driver for time behind the wheel and a faster car. It explains the perfectionism behind taking a turn at the limit and describes the intoxicating thrill of stealing down the Daytona backstraight at nearly two hundred miles an hour. The core of Mose's story takes place in the heartland of stock car racing, there he finds a spot on a team in Ether, North Carolina. The team's owner is a tough Louisiana oil man, its crew chief a lanky, laconic Texan, and its number-one driver a hairy-chested leadfoot who learned fast driving on backwoods Georgia roads, delivering beauty supplies in his Mustang. Crashes echo throughout the tale that follows, five of them the author's own. Sam Moses was a staff writer for Sports Illustrated for seventeen years on the motorsports beat. He worked as deputy editor at AutoWeek and received automotive journalisms prestigious Ken Purdy Award. He is the author of At All Costs: How a Crippled Ship and Two American Merchant Mariners Reversed the Tide of World War II. A candid, often hilarious account of [Mosess] experiences on the tracks, in the garages and in the gasoline alleys of the racing worldbut especially memorable is the wild variety of characters Moses met along the way. The book might have been written twenty years ago, but racing is still populated by fast guys, rich guys, and idiots.Brock Yates, Wall Street Journal -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 From m-syork at comcast.net Fri Dec 28 23:58:39 2007 From: m-syork at comcast.net (Mark York) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:58:39 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: <000001c849e8$3e4dde30$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Amici Is there any advantage to add a breather to the stock valve cover on a TR3 or early TR4 engine? I've read articles that small block V8s "breathe easier, hinting that performance is increased, is this an old wives tale or is there some benefit to be gained? Thank you Mark From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Sat Dec 29 00:26:21 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 23:26:21 -0800 Subject: [Fot] FF Dynamics FFD-LSD conversion kit Message-ID: <000001c849ec$1c79e840$b1191718@computer> Does anyone know anything about the limited slip differential FF Dynamics FFD-LSD conversion kit? I see that they are on Ebay for $165 plus $10 shipping. That seems pretty reasonable if they are any good. Jim in Sacramento Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Sat Dec 29 00:42:18 2007 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 23:42:18 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Wanted - Double or triple carb set up for a TR6 Message-ID: <000401c849ee$56a0c500$b1191718@computer> Does anyone have or know of a used double or triple Weber carb set up for a TR6 that is for sale? Thanks, Jim Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From mark at bradakis.com Sat Dec 29 00:47:23 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:47:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Magazine coming along nicely In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4775FB8B.2000505@bradakis.com> > It has form systems that allow readers to upload photos, articles and video > That reminds me I really need to get busy and get the Team.Net stuff at http://www.team.net/the-local updated and working better. It has all sorts of features like these, but very few folks actually use it. It could be quite a bit more useful and entertaining than just this plain old text based email stuff. And if enough folks visited and actually clicked on the the various Google ad links so that Team.Net made more than the 10 - 20 cents a day it currently brings in, I could stop doing my annual begging drives to cover my out of pocket expenses! Fresh web pages are yet another winter project for the coming year, like getting the TR7 coupe ready for the road, Killer's fresh motor, redoing the roll cage, rebuilding the diff, getting rid of the big van and the old Honda, working on the little truck, the cookbook plans, parts on EBay and so on and on and on. Boy, it will be January soon, I better start getting ready for the Beach Party coming up February 23rd! mjb. From spitlist at cox.net Sat Dec 29 09:21:56 2007 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 09:21:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FF Dynamics FFD-LSD conversion kit In-Reply-To: <000001c849ec$1c79e840$b1191718@computer> References: <000001c849ec$1c79e840$b1191718@computer> Message-ID: <000301c84a36$ee3d18d0$0202a8c0@newcomputer> Jim, L00king at the listings that the company has, it appears that their products are just another variation of the "Phantom Grip" LSD that uses spring force against the sides of the gears in the differential to restrict their movement. I have tried the Phantom grip and can truthfully say that I found very little difference in performance versus the open diff. My recommendation is to save your money and put it toward a real limited slip diff. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jim hearn Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 12:26 AM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] FF Dynamics FFD-LSD conversion kit Does anyone know anything about the limited slip differential FF Dynamics FFD-LSD conversion kit? I see that they are on Ebay for $165 plus $10 shipping. That seems pretty reasonable if they are any good. Jim in Sacramento Two '74 TR6s [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sat Dec 29 10:02:34 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 09:02:34 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <000001c849e8$3e4dde30$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: No idea. I've always had a breather on mine so I couldn't say what the result would be of eliminating it, but I suspect the gasket might leak worse than it already does. The stock TR3s have a breather, in that the oil fill cap isn't sealed. Of course Tech generally won't let you do that with an engine that's to be raced on a track. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Mark York Sent: Fri 12/28/2007 10:58 PM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Amici Is there any advantage to add a breather to the stock valve cover on a TR3 or early TR4 engine? I've read articles that small block V8s "breathe easier, hinting that performance is increased, is this an old wives tale or is there some benefit to be gained? Thank you Mark Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Sat Dec 29 10:23:54 2007 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 09:23:54 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <000001c849e8$3e4dde30$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: <006e01c84a3f$968eb8b0$3f0ec548@RW> The oil pan pressure goes into the head and valve cover, and chances are with no way out, will liberate itself by blowing out under the gasket and around the oil filler cap. Even with the 1" minimum breather on the block, you still need the one on the valve cover, not just a little 1/2" hose either. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Babcock" To: "Mark York" ; Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > No idea. I've always had a breather on mine so I couldn't say what the > result > would be of eliminating it, but I suspect the gasket might leak worse than > it > already does. The stock TR3s have a breather, in that the oil fill cap > isn't > sealed. Of course Tech generally won't let you do that with an engine > that's > to be raced on a track. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Mark York > Sent: Fri 12/28/2007 10:58 PM > To: FOT at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather > > Amici > > Is there any advantage to add a breather to the stock valve cover on a TR3 > or early TR4 engine? I've read articles that small block V8s "breathe > easier, hinting that performance is increased, is this an old wives tale > or > is there some benefit to be gained? > > Thank you > > Mark > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Sat Dec 29 12:08:57 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 12:08:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> What ever happened to the practice of creating a Venturi at the outlet of the exhaust header and feeding the crankcase vent line to it, to draw crankcase gasses out? Used to see that a lot on V-8s @ the drag races Bill From tony at tonydrews.com Sat Dec 29 12:25:40 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:25:40 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. - Tony At 01:08 PM 12/29/2007, William G Rosenbach wrote: >What ever happened to the practice of creating a Venturi at the outlet of >the exhaust header and feeding the crankcase vent line to it, to draw >crankcase gasses out? >Used to see that a lot on V-8s @ the drag races >Bill >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From vintage.racer at comcast.net Sat Dec 29 15:39:53 2007 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 14:39:53 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Car Quote Message-ID: <000a01c84a6b$bbd6c5f0$338451d0$@racer@comcast.net> >From the February 2008 issue of Road & Track, Jay Leno, when asked to describe the new 2008 Corvette: ".the greatest value for speed is the motorcycle. You can get an $11,000 Kawasaki ZX14 that goes almost to 200mph. It is governed at 186. It does 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. The next greatest value is the Corvette Z06, at $65,000. To me, I always get annoyed at these people who say, "Oh, I don't like the interior." Well, shut up! Go get a living room set then. What do you want to pay for? Do you want to pay for performance or do you want to pay for faux carbon fiber and all that other nonsense?" That's a car guy after my own heart! Gary From gp89 at charter.net Sat Dec 29 16:45:06 2007 From: gp89 at charter.net (gp89 at charter.net) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 15:45:06 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Car Quote In-Reply-To: <000a01c84a6b$bbd6c5f0$338451d0$@racer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20071229184506.EA6K9.271031.root@fepweb16> The first ZX14's weren't governed:) The salesgirl told me I would get killed if I bought one. The thing was a monster. 60-150 something in a couple of seconds more. The adrenalin rush lasted for hours. I didn't buy it, she was probably right. Jeff Senty ---- Gary Horstkorta wrote: > >From the February 2008 issue of Road & Track, Jay Leno, when asked to > describe the new 2008 Corvette: > > > > ".the greatest value for speed is the motorcycle. You can get an $11,000 > Kawasaki ZX14 that goes almost to 200mph. It is governed at 186. It does > 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. The next greatest value is the Corvette Z06, at > $65,000. To me, I always get annoyed at these people who say, "Oh, I don't > like the interior." Well, shut up! Go get a living room set then. What do > you want to pay for? Do you want to pay for performance or do you want to > pay for faux carbon fiber and all that other nonsense?" That's a car guy > after my own heart! > > > > Gary > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gp89 at charter.net Sat Dec 29 16:49:37 2007 From: gp89 at charter.net (gp89 at charter.net) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 15:49:37 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Car Quote Message-ID: <20071229184937.OWDV4.271150.root@fepweb16> The first ZX14's weren't governed:) The salesgirl told me I would get killed if I bought one. The thing was a monster. 60-150 something in a couple of seconds more. The adrenalin rush lasted for hours. I didn't buy it, she was probably right. Jeff Senty ---- Gary Horstkorta wrote: > >From the February 2008 issue of Road & Track, Jay Leno, when asked to > describe the new 2008 Corvette: > > > > ".the greatest value for speed is the motorcycle. You can get an $11,000 > Kawasaki ZX14 that goes almost to 200mph. It is governed at 186. It does > 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. The next greatest value is the Corvette Z06, at > $65,000. To me, I always get annoyed at these people who say, "Oh, I don't > like the interior." Well, shut up! Go get a living room set then. What do > you want to pay for? Do you want to pay for performance or do you want to > pay for faux carbon fiber and all that other nonsense?" That's a car guy > after my own heart! > > > > Gary > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jhassall at blacksburg.net Sat Dec 29 17:30:01 2007 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:30:01 -0800 Subject: [Fot] wideband fuel-air monitor recommendation? Message-ID: <4776E689.30507@blacksburg.net> I'm in the market for a wideband fuel-air monitor to tune my Webers. I'd appreciate recommendations or brands to avoid. TIA jim -- J.C. Hassall Blacksburg VA '64 TR4 in autox preparation 95% finished, 90% to go From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sat Dec 29 19:38:45 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:38:45 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: <20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> <20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> Message-ID: I did this with my TR4 and have the exhaust system venturi system scavenging positive pressure from the engine crankcase and rocker cover, via the upper portion of the catch can. Works a treat. Peter V TR-4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony Drews Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2007 6:26 AM To: William G Rosenbach Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. - Tony At 01:08 PM 12/29/2007, William G Rosenbach wrote: >What ever happened to the practice of creating a Venturi at the outlet of >the exhaust header and feeding the crankcase vent line to it, to draw >crankcase gasses out? >Used to see that a lot on V-8s @ the drag races >Bill >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From JWoesvra at aol.com Sat Dec 29 19:52:00 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 21:52:00 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/29/2007 2:26:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tony at tonydrews.com writes: Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. This would pass tech at an SVRA event. I think it is a viable device and once used a similar idea in a BMC Fomula jr. However, in that case the car had a faulty rear main seal design (BMC) that always leaked on the clutch. We put a scavenger tube in the bell housing and ran it to the exhaust header. It sucked up whatever came out and burned it up in the exhaust. I see nothing against the our rules if you vent the valve cover this way, unless you start smoking so bad that it is a nuisance. That call is always up to the Chief Steward. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Dec 29 21:06:39 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 23:06:39 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: <388111BF.60380574.00159EE9@cs.com> Thanks, Jack W. This is good to hear as it has always made great sense to me and my TR4. Especially in a TR3/4 engine, with no apparent downside. As a result, I have never used the lip seal conversion...dont need to. Joe A. >In a message dated 12/29/2007 2:26:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >tony at tonydrews.com writes: > >Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. > > >This would pass tech at an SVRA event. I think it is a viable device and >once used a similar idea in a BMC Fomula jr. > >However, in that case the car had a faulty rear main seal design (BMC) that >always leaked on the clutch. We put a scavenger tube in the bell housing and >ran it to the exhaust header. It sucked up whatever came out and burned it up >in the exhaust. > >I see nothing against the our rules if you vent the valve cover this way, >unless you start smoking so bad that it is a nuisance. > >That call is always up to the Chief Steward. > >Jack Woehrle >SVRA Technical Director > > > > >**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes >(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jmwagner at greenheart.com Sat Dec 29 21:19:34 2007 From: jmwagner at greenheart.com (Justin Wagner) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 20:19:34 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47771C56.8040100@greenheart.com> I have to wonder.... interesting topic.... I kept on thinking of ways to put positive pressure in the bell housing.... to assist the rear seal of my TR4A, etc... I even thought about running a tube from the front of the car, to take advantage of the positive pressure there.... and I figured some cool air there wouldn't hurt... Here, you say you put a scavenger tube in the bell housing.... I have to wonder... while I trust it did, indeed, suck up anything that came out.... might it not also have drawn oil through the rear seal? Just thinking aloud here.... --Justin JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/29/2007 2:26:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >tony at tonydrews.com writes: > >Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. > > >This would pass tech at an SVRA event. I think it is a viable device and >once used a similar idea in a BMC Fomula jr. > >However, in that case the car had a faulty rear main seal design (BMC) that >always leaked on the clutch. We put a scavenger tube in the bell housing and >ran it to the exhaust header. It sucked up whatever came out and burned it up >in the exhaust. > >I see nothing against the our rules if you vent the valve cover this way, >unless you start smoking so bad that it is a nuisance. > >That call is always up to the Chief Steward. > >Jack Woehrle >SVRA Technical Director > > > > >**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes >(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From JWoesvra at aol.com Sun Dec 30 06:56:04 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 08:56:04 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/29/2007 11:19:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jmwagner at greenheart.com writes: I have to wonder... while I trust it did, indeed, suck up anything that came out.... might it not also have drawn oil through the rear seal? Just thinking aloud here.... The bell housing wasn't sealed so there was no vacuum to suck oil out. The tube just collected the little bit that ran to the bottom. Jack **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From BillDentin at aol.com Sun Dec 30 08:02:15 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:02:15 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/30/2007 7:58:05 AM Central Standard Time, JWoesvra at aol.com writes: The bell housing wasn't sealed so there was no vacuum to suck oil out. The tube just collected the little bit that ran to the bottom. Jack... You're a fart smeller...I mean...smart feller! Bill (Damdinger) **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From spreiss at verizon.net Sat Dec 29 18:24:14 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 12:24:14 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> <20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Do you mean "...exhaust venturi scavenging positive pressure from engine crankcase, and rocker cover venting via the vent on the catch can?" I always thought the crank case and valve cover vents acted in tandem to allow the engine to breathe in both directions. If a vacuum is applied to both, wouldn't that cause a vapor lock? I also thought that the crank case breather tube was designed to draw out the "vapor" when the vehicle was moving, with increased vacuum at speed. I believe that when a closed system was required by emmission control regulations, the pop-off valve was employed to direct venting to the intake manifold when the vehicle is stationary, and to the carbon canister when the vehicle is in motion. Please correct me if I am wrong. (Was replacement of the carbon canister a part of scheduled maintenance?) Steve P ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Vucinic" To: "'Tony Drews'" ; "'William G Rosenbach'" Cc: Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > I did this with my TR4 and have the exhaust system venturi system scavenging > positive pressure from the engine crankcase and rocker cover, via the upper > portion of the catch can. Works a treat. > > Peter V > TR-4 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Tony Drews > Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2007 6:26 AM > To: William G Rosenbach > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > > Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. > > - Tony > > At 01:08 PM 12/29/2007, William G Rosenbach wrote: > >What ever happened to the practice of creating a Venturi at the outlet of > >the exhaust header and feeding the crankcase vent line to it, to draw > >crankcase gasses out? > >Used to see that a lot on V-8s @ the drag races > >Bill > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Sun Dec 30 10:33:46 2007 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 12:33:46 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <000001c849e8$3e4dde30$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: <025001c84b0a$23eadd90$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Hi all, here's my nickles worth (2 cents won't buy much anymore!). It was a slow day and I was looking through the "08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. A consideration if you do SCCA. Happy New Year Bill Tobin TR6 Vintage Guy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark York" To: Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:58 AM Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather > Amici > > Is there any advantage to add a breather to the stock valve cover on a TR3 > or early TR4 engine? I've read articles that small block V8s "breathe > easier, hinting that performance is increased, is this an old wives tale or > is there some benefit to be gained? > > Thank you > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sun Dec 30 11:27:17 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 05:27:17 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: <002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com> <20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> <002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: Steve, Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Exhaust venture scavenging from engine. What you say is true, if the system was a closed circuit. However, the catch can is open to atmosphere. E.g. has a filter fitted to the top of the can. Peter V -----Original Message----- From: Steven Preiss [mailto:spreiss at verizon.net] Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2007 12:24 PM To: Peter Vucinic; 'Tony Drews'; 'William G Rosenbach' Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Do you mean "...exhaust venturi scavenging positive pressure from engine crankcase, and rocker cover venting via the vent on the catch can?" I always thought the crank case and valve cover vents acted in tandem to allow the engine to breathe in both directions. If a vacuum is applied to both, wouldn't that cause a vapor lock? I also thought that the crank case breather tube was designed to draw out the "vapor" when the vehicle was moving, with increased vacuum at speed. I believe that when a closed system was required by emmission control regulations, the pop-off valve was employed to direct venting to the intake manifold when the vehicle is stationary, and to the carbon canister when the vehicle is in motion. Please correct me if I am wrong. (Was replacement of the carbon canister a part of scheduled maintenance?) Steve P ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Vucinic" To: "'Tony Drews'" ; "'William G Rosenbach'" Cc: Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > I did this with my TR4 and have the exhaust system venturi system scavenging > positive pressure from the engine crankcase and rocker cover, via the upper > portion of the catch can. Works a treat. > > Peter V > TR-4 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Tony Drews > Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2007 6:26 AM > To: William G Rosenbach > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > > Works, but doesn't pass tech as vent lines need to go to a catch tank. > > - Tony > > At 01:08 PM 12/29/2007, William G Rosenbach wrote: > >What ever happened to the practice of creating a Venturi at the outlet of > >the exhaust header and feeding the crankcase vent line to it, to draw > >crankcase gasses out? > >Used to see that a lot on V-8s @ the drag races > >Bill > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From cak at dimebank.com Sun Dec 30 12:01:37 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 11:01:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: <200712301901.lBUJ1bmd020313@moose.dimebank.com> I thought the problem with this was that some V8s were found to generate so much vacuum via the exhaust venturi that they dumped a large portion of the engine's oil on the track. From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 11:59:04 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:59:04 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com><20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> <002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: Arrggh--another 4k bounce. Mark, you really should up that a little. >> Nope, you won't get "vapor Lock" or any other issue. The only thing keeping me from doing the same thing is some really sharp SCCA and SOVREN tech inspectors here in the Northwest--they don't like the potential for fogging down your competitors with a nice oil mist. The rules say "catch can". First of all, vapor lock is a popular term that describes gasoline getting hot enough in the fuel lines to make the fuel pump cavitate to the point it can't pump or boiling in the float bowl that screws the carb up. Crankcase volume changes all the time as the pistons rise and fall. Nothing like it does on a BMW boxer motorcycle engine, but it changes. Add a check valve (PCV) and you can pull a vacuum on the case. There's also some blowby past the rings and a lot of off-gassing low boiling point liquids in the oil--mostly water. All crankcase and valve cover vents do is release the pressure. The valve cover area is open to the crankcase so it's pressurized too and very susceptible to leaking, therefore its a good idea to vent it. It's a long way from the valve cover to the crank vent so even if you have a good crankcase ventilation you'll have higher pressure in the valve cover--probably. If you get too much pressure, the seals will leak like a sieve, especially scroll seals or felt ones. And our tractor motors have a weak hold on their fluids under the best conditions. Drawing a slight vacuum on the crankcase and valve cover would be a pretty good thing. Now, if you're worried about emissions and a PCV system, then that's a whole different ball of wax. I've never studied emission controls beyond figuring out how to remove them from racing motors. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Steven Preiss Sent: Sat 12/29/2007 5:24 PM To: Peter Vucinic; 'Tony Drews'; 'William G Rosenbach' Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Do you mean "...exhaust venturi scavenging positive pressure from engine crankcase, and rocker cover venting via the vent on the catch can?" I always thought the crank case and valve cover vents acted in tandem to allow the engine to breathe in both directions. If a vacuum is applied to both, wouldn't that cause a vapor lock? I also thought that the crank case breather tube was designed to draw out the "vapor" when the vehicle was moving, with increased vacuum at speed. I believe that when a closed system was required by emmission control regulations, the pop-off valve was employed to direct venting to the intake manifold when the vehicle is stationary, and to the carbon canister when the vehicle is in motion. Please correct me if I am wrong. (Was replacement of the carbon canister a part of scheduled maintenance?) From vanlake at bellsouth.net Sun Dec 30 12:11:18 2007 From: vanlake at bellsouth.net (vanlake at bellsouth.net) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 19:11:18 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR 6 RELEASE BEARINGS Message-ID: <123020071911.14223.4777ED560003D6570000378F22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> FoT Does anyone have experience using the Gunst Throw-out bearing system? Just wondering how well it will withstand continuous high RPM spinning, since it is always in contact with the clutch fingers. The makers must be proud of it due to the fact it is three times the cost of a "standard" release bearing. Much appreciated, Mark Oldspeed 72 " Money can't buy you happiness, but it can take you to places where you can find it for yourself" Lou Holtz after signing his first contract at Notre Dame. From walt at hot-tr6.com Sun Dec 30 13:52:04 2007 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:52:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR 6 RELEASE BEARINGS In-Reply-To: <123020071911.14223.4777ED560003D6570000378F22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> Message-ID: <20071230205327.ED008187AAF@autox.team.net> Another issue for consideration is thrust washer wear as well as wear on the release fingers on the clutch pressure plate. But back to the thrust washer, constant pressure, even slight, increases heat, friction and wear. Once the rear most thrust washer wears too much then the inside thrust washer slips out of place and is found laying in the bottom of the oil pan that you took off to figure out why you have a connecting rod sticking out of the side of your engine block. This is why I had Ron Meek developed for me a 360 degree thrust washer as described on page 144 of Kas Kastner's book Historical & Technical Guide for Triumph Cars Walt Hollowell Abq., NM -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+walt=hot-tr6.com at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+walt=hot-tr6.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of vanlake at bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 12:11 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR 6 RELEASE BEARINGS FoT Does anyone have experience using the Gunst Throw-out bearing system? Just wondering how well it will withstand continuous high RPM spinning, since it is always in contact with the clutch fingers. The makers must be proud of it due to the fact it is three times the cost of a "standard" release bearing. Much appreciated, Mark Oldspeed 72 " Money can't buy you happiness, but it can take you to places where you can find it for yourself" Lou Holtz after signing his first contract at Notre Dame. Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Sun Dec 30 14:05:59 2007 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:05:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: <20071230.140600.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R From m-syork at comcast.net Sun Dec 30 14:42:09 2007 From: m-syork at comcast.net (Mark York) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:42:09 -0800 Subject: [Fot] More valve cover breather Message-ID: <000301c84b2c$d5534eb0$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Okay I'll remove the battery from the TR3 and get one of those tiny AMG batteries and mount it on the passenger side floor. In the battery well I'll mount a catch can. I'll drill a hole in my nice shiny chrome valve cover and weld in a straight or 90 degree hose barb fitting, where should I locate it to be most effective (top or side, front or back of the valve cover)? Regards Mark From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 15:15:41 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:15:41 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <20071230.140600.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: Much more likely to suck too hard at high RPM that not do enough. It's hard to set up a venturi system that's anything like linear. At Idle it could be pressurizing the crank and at full RPM sucking the oil out. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of William G Rosenbach Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 1:05 PM To: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 15:20:10 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:20:10 -0800 Subject: [Fot] More valve cover breather References: <000301c84b2c$d5534eb0$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim> Message-ID: Before you do any of those thing you should probably talk to Tony Garmey. He could do it an make it look like the factory made it that way. I could save myself a lot of grief by simply living closer to that guy. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Mark York Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 1:42 PM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] More valve cover breather Okay I'll remove the battery from the TR3 and get one of those tiny AMG batteries and mount it on the passenger side floor. In the battery well I'll mount a catch can. I'll drill a hole in my nice shiny chrome valve cover and weld in a straight or 90 degree hose barb fitting, where should I locate it to be most effective (top or side, front or back of the valve cover)? Regards Mark Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jwags at dotnet.com Sun Dec 30 19:53:56 2007 From: jwags at dotnet.com (jwags at dotnet.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:53:56 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: Message-ID: <477859C4.000003.02260@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> The hot set up for drag racers was to use an air pump check valve from a GM car And a 6 inch length of pipe cut at 45 degrees with a small whistle cut that Stuck inside the header.It worked very well When I got into this left right stuff it was one of the first things I did to the Little TR, it worked too well. We would suck out more than a quart of oil in one session. Drag cars are running hard for seconds while road racers run much longer times. I think that has a lot to do with it. Don't waste your time. Just the wrench. . eFrom: Bill Babcock Date: 12/30/2007 4:14:28 PM To: William G Rosenbach; william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Much more likely to suck too hard at high RPM that not do enough. It's hard to set up a venturi system that's anything like linear. At Idle it could be Pressurizing the crank and at full RPM sucking the oil out. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of William G Rosenbach Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 1:05 PM To: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 18c_blue.gif] From kenandtweety at yahoo.com Sun Dec 30 20:11:01 2007 From: kenandtweety at yahoo.com (Ken Suhre) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 19:11:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fot] Valvecover venting Message-ID: <279341.76750.qm@web33109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Being a Chrysler Corp. technician for some 38 years, I have a pretty good understanding of emission systems on automobiles. The positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve is what controls the flow of engine crancase vapors to the intake manifold. It has an orifaced check valve that only allows flow when vacum is applied as the engine is running. Air is drawn into the engine through a filtered inlet in the aircleaner system, usually through a hose to the opposite valve cover of a vee type engine. The charcoal canister is there only to recover fuel vapors from the tank and carburator if it has one. When the engine is running above an idle these vapors are purged from the charcoal by the intake manifold vacum. Usually through an orifaced port to control the amount of flow. Probably boring information to most vintage racers. But I just had to try to clear up the confusion. Ken Suhre ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 30 20:17:03 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 22:17:03 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: I must live a charmed life. Mine has been flawless. > The hot set up for drag racers was to use an air pump check valve from a GM > car > And a 6 inch length of pipe cut at 45 degrees with a small whistle cut that > Stuck inside the header.It worked very well > When I got into this left right stuff it was one of the first things I did > to the > Little TR, it worked too well. We would suck out more than a quart of oil in > one > session. > Drag cars are running hard for seconds while road racers run much longer > times. > I think that has a lot to do with it. Don't waste your time. > From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sun Dec 30 20:32:03 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:32:03 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: References: <20071230.140600.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: Bill, To avoid ANY back pressures you should fit a one way / check valve at the exhaust venture. These type of check valves are available on some emission vehicles. Problem solved. That what I have on my TR4. Peter V TR-4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Monday, 31 December 2007 9:16 AM To: William G Rosenbach; william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Much more likely to suck too hard at high RPM that not do enough. It's hard to set up a venturi system that's anything like linear. At Idle it could be pressurizing the crank and at full RPM sucking the oil out. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of William G Rosenbach Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 1:05 PM To: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sun Dec 30 20:35:58 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:35:58 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: <20071230.140600.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> References: <20071230.140600.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: The Venturi system I have generates about 1.5PSI of negative at best. If you are looking for more than this, you should consider using a smog pump or similar. The venture is a 'cost you nothing' in horse power terms to run. I don't see a down side to using something you already have available to you. However, it has its limitation like any system. Peter V TR-4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of William G Rosenbach Sent: Monday, 31 December 2007 8:06 AM To: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sun Dec 30 20:39:58 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:39:58 +1100 Subject: [Fot] [FOT] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: <477859C4.000003.02260@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> References: <477859C4.000003.02260@EMILY-HDD4OJ4Y8> Message-ID: That is why you NED to feed ALL of your lines into a catch can that has baffles in it to separate the oil and let it accumulate in the bottom of the catch can. You then are sucking mostly vapor, while reducing crank system/engine pressures to some degree. It make NO logical sense to connect the Venturi directly to your engine block or rocker cover! All you will be doing is pumping oil out the back as you describe. Peter V TR-4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jwags at dotnet.com Sent: Monday, 31 December 2007 1:54 PM To: William G Rosenbach; william.tobin3 at verizon.net; Bill Babcock Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather The hot set up for drag racers was to use an air pump check valve from a GM car And a 6 inch length of pipe cut at 45 degrees with a small whistle cut that Stuck inside the header.It worked very well When I got into this left right stuff it was one of the first things I did to the Little TR, it worked too well. We would suck out more than a quart of oil in one session. Drag cars are running hard for seconds while road racers run much longer times. I think that has a lot to do with it. Don't waste your time. Just the wrench. . eFrom: Bill Babcock Date: 12/30/2007 4:14:28 PM To: William G Rosenbach; william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather Much more likely to suck too hard at high RPM that not do enough. It's hard to set up a venturi system that's anything like linear. At Idle it could be Pressurizing the crank and at full RPM sucking the oil out. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of William G Rosenbach Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 1:05 PM To: william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather >>>"08 SCCA GCR; Section 9.3.37 states that it is prohibited to allow the breather to go directly to the exhaust. That sounds like the SCCA going 'green' on us. Can not go 'directly', so you could evacuate a fluid separating chamber that is in line with the crank case vent line. I've always wondered if the exhaust Venturi could move enough air to actually create a negative pressure in the crank case. If it was more than up to it, excess vacuum capacity could be applied to the transmission and rear end. Imagine, an English car that never got called in for leaking fluids! Except for fuel from the fuel cell. Bill R Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 18c_blue.gif] Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mark at bradakis.com Sun Dec 30 20:43:04 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:43:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com><20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net> <002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: <47786548.4020401@bradakis.com> > Arrggh--another 4k bounce. Mark, you really should up that a little. The vast majority of replies that bounce due to size limits are because people include a bunch of crap in their replies that just doesn't need to be there. And quite aware of the irony, here's a previous exchange on this subject. mjb. ---- -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fot] List message sizes Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:38:14 -0700 From: Bill Babcock To: Mark J. Bradakis CC: fot at autox.team.net Okay, makes sense, I'll do that. I had assumed it was a storage issue, and since storage is essentially free these days, or at least it's cheaper than I ever could have imagined, I thought the concern might be a little obsolete. Never thought about the archive and search issues. Of course I imagine a pretty simple program that would clean that all up as it sticks data in the archive, but I'm not volunteering to write anything. I don't imagine anyone would be thrilled with software written in Foxpro, which is the only language I remember, other than some vague recollections of Pascal, C, and AWK. On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:45 PM, Mark J. Bradakis wrote: > Finally getting around to answering an old question. Sorry for the > delay. > > Bill Babcock wrote: > >> First one bounced--too big. Hey Mark, isn't 4K a bit too restrictive? >> >> > Well, yes and no, sort of. It is an arbitrary limit I just > picked. On > some of the > other big lists, though, it is only 3K. Basically the problem lies in > the default > behavior of many popular email clients in use today. When people > respond > to a message, the *entire* message is added to the end of the > response. > Unlike > this message, which has only one pertinent line included, at the > beginning, where > it is clear to see the issue under discussion. > > So what happens is that as people continue discussion on a topic, the > messages > keep getting longer and longer and longer and longer. There may be > only two > or three lines still pertinent to the discussion or necessary for > context, but all > the useless verbiage keeps getting dragged along for the ride. > > Last time I actually ran some statistical programs on the Team.Net > lists, > about 70 - 80 percent of the character count of list messages was > text > that was included for no real reason at all. That's about the same as > buying > a 6 pack of your favorite beverage, and getting one or two that are > the > actual fresh, new beverage, the rest are, uh, recycled product. > > All this extra, useless text does is slow down the Team.Net network > line, > transmitting bits that it doesn't need to transmit. It slows down > the list > archiving processes, as they have to go over the same text again > and again. > Gee, nothing like getting 50 hits on your search only to find that > 48 of > them > are the same old paragraph added again and again and again to peoples > replies. The added replies slow down the mail processing, adding to > the delays in getting the messages out to the list. > > If the preceding paragraph is too much computer jargon for you to get > your mind around, then think of it this way - how would your race > car start > behaving if every time you crossed the start/finish line you had to > stop and > take on another 50 pounds of ballast? > > And of course, there is the time I have to spend cleaning up bouncing > addresses because all the clueless replies filled up the mailboxes of > hapless subscribers who've hit their limit. > > I know that I'm never going to be able to singlehandedly change human > behavior, but it sure would be nice if a few more folks spent an extra > few seconds on their list messages. Set your mailer to NOT include > the > original in your reply, just paste in the appropriate line or two > as I did > above. Or at least delete the text that serves no purpose in your > response, > rather than just absentmindedly trying to stuff it down the > Team.Net pipe > for no useful reason. > > If you do have a lot to say and your all-original message does hit up > against the size limit, I do try to stay somewhat current with admin > requests, and I'll approve such messages and get them on their way > as I have time. > > Gee, this message is getting kind of long. Wonder how many folks will > respond, and include it in its entirety in their response? For > now, I'll > just send it off and then spend some more time wading through the > 7,664 unread messages cuurently in my Team.Net admin mailbox. > > mjb. From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 30 21:02:06 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 23:02:06 EST Subject: [Fot] CRANKCASE EVACUATION SYSTEM Message-ID: GM has a typical check valve for $10-15 if you make your own. This system will: "...provide better piston ring seal, less intake charge contamination, and reduced oil leaks caused by high crankcase pressure." This is from a circle track catalog. A little marketing hype built in here, I sense. Moroso, Mr. Gasket, and Renegade provide these kits to the circle track guys. There are pieces uneeded for Triumphs and no hi temp poly tubing, which may be the most expensive item. I have no understanding of why they are not permitted in the SCCA GCRs. Likely for good reason in certain applications...V-8s? But for TR3/TR4 engines, it seems like an appropriate modification. I was putting a lot of oil into the frame rails and then would dump it ON the exhaust pipe at Turn Five at Road America. Not a very pretty cloud of oil smoke and of some concern to the corner workers. After going home, I would let the TR4 drip for a couple of weeks, then wipe it down. This system changed all of that. Joe A > Bill, > > To avoid ANY back pressures you should fit a one way / check valve at the > exhaust venture. These type of check valves are available on some emission > vehicles. Problem solved. That what I have on my TR4. > > Peter V > TR-4 > From DSPGTi at aol.com Sun Dec 30 21:20:09 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 23:20:09 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case venting connecting to the exhaust system. After all we are talking about oil being injected in the stream after combustion. It has been prohibited by SCCA as long as I can remember, however there appears to be no mention in the 1972 GCR rules under the "oil catch tanks" section. The second oldest GCR that I have on hand (2003 17.26) states the exact wording as the 2008 GCR: "A crankcase vacuum breather that passes through the oil catch tank(s) to exhaust systems or vacuum devices that connect directly to exhaust systems is prohibited." I have yet to run my TR4 hard enough or long enough but my VW Rabbit can put a half a quart in the catch tank on a hot day during a 20 minute session. On a 3 hour enduro we have to add a quart at a pit stop on a Scirocco and finish almost a quart low. Both engines are very strong with minimal leak down.You wouldn't want to be following me with that going out my tail pipe. Dave Y. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From jaboruch at netzero.net Sun Dec 30 21:39:32 2007 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 04:39:32 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner Message-ID: <20071230.233932.5196.2@webmail18.dca.untd.com> Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken timing chain tensioner. This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all with this same block). Some have broken in a season or less, while this one was used last season and then failed sometime this season. These have been from the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was from who. Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I am doing wrong that is causing the failures? They are not wearing thru, but rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot. Any better designed tensioners out there for the tractor motors? Joe(B) _____________________________________________________________ Are you overpaying for motorcycle insurance? Get a quote today. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmN0Fya3y18EGne27K9QLpQ2 rxCQei95XilDIzITY2om3OIa/ From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 21:40:38 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:40:38 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valvecover venting References: <279341.76750.qm@web33109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What he said... -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Ken Suhre Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 7:11 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Valvecover venting Being a Chrysler Corp. technician for some 38 years, I have a pretty good understanding of emission systems on automobiles. The positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve is what controls the flow of engine crancase vapors to the intake manifold. It has an orifaced check valve that only allows flow when vacum is applied as the engine is running. Air is drawn into the engine through a filtered inlet in the aircleaner system, usually through a hose to the opposite valve cover of a vee type engine. The charcoal canister is there only to recover fuel vapors from the tank and carburator if it has one. When the engine is running above an idle these vapors are purged from the charcoal by the intake manifold vacum. Usually through an orifaced port to control the amount of flow. Probably boring information to most vintage racers. But I just had to try to clear up the confusion. Ken Suhre _______________________________________________________________________ _____________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 21:45:56 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:45:56 -0800 Subject: [Fot] CRANKCASE EVACUATION SYSTEM References: Message-ID: I might have to give it a try. Of course that means Peyote is going to rust. -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com [mailto:N197TR4 at cs.com] Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 8:02 PM To: pvucinic at netspace.net.au; Bill Babcock; wgrosenbach at juno.com; william.tobin3 at verizon.net Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: CRANKCASE EVACUATION SYSTEM GM has a typical check valve for $10-15 if you make your own. This system will: "...provide better piston ring seal, less intake charge contamination, and reduced oil leaks caused by high crankcase pressure." This is from a circle track catalog. A little marketing hype built in here, I sense. Moroso, Mr. Gasket, and Renegade provide these kits to the circle track guys. There are pieces uneeded for Triumphs and no hi temp poly tubing, which may be the most expensive item. I have no understanding of why they are not permitted in the SCCA GCRs. Likely for good reason in certain applications...V-8s? But for TR3/TR4 engines, it seems like an appropriate modification. I was putting a lot of oil into the frame rails and then would dump it ON the exhaust pipe at Turn Five at Road America. Not a very pretty cloud of oil smoke and of some concern to the corner workers. After going home, I would let the TR4 drip for a couple of weeks, then wipe it down. This system changed all of that. Joe A > Bill, > > To avoid ANY back pressures you should fit a one way / check valve at the > exhaust venture. These type of check valves are available on some emission > vehicles. Problem solved. That what I have on my TR4. > > Peter V > TR-4 > From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 21:58:07 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:58:07 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: Message-ID: Actually, I know this can be managed better, though what I know works best with a dry sump. It's pretty easy to build a swirl can that will return the oil to the crankcase. On my Radical I would put about a quart of oil in the catch tank every 30 minute race. Obviously a problem for endurance races. I made a swirl can with a helical separator structure inside--the oil/air vapor from the breather went in at an angle in the bottom side (promoting swirl) and exhausted through the top of the can. The oil that collected on the can sides and the separator fell to the bottom and returned to the sump. If this went to a catch can with a fairly restrictive filter on top that had a line going to the divergent side of the header collector it would draw a slight vacuum on the system and might reduce my general engine spewing. Might be worth fiddling with. Not purely legal, but if an organization's tech guys didn't like it I could just blank off the hose. -----Original Message----- From: DSPGTi at aol.com [mailto:DSPGTi at aol.com] Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 8:20 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com; jwags at dotnet.com; wgrosenbach at juno.com; william.tobin3 at verizon.net; Bill Babcock Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case venting connecting to the exhaust system. After all we are talking about oil being injected in the stream after combustion. It has been prohibited by SCCA as long as I can remember, however there appears to be no mention in the 1972 GCR rules under the "oil catch tanks" section. The second oldest GCR that I have on hand (2003 17.26) states the exact wording as the 2008 GCR: "A crankcase vacuum breather that passes through the oil catch tank(s) to exhaust systems or vacuum devices that connect directly to exhaust systems is prohibited." I have yet to run my TR4 hard enough or long enough but my VW Rabbit can put a half a quart in the catch tank on a hot day during a 20 minute session. On a 3 hour enduro we have to add a quart at a pit stop on a Scirocco and finish almost a quart low. Both engines are very strong with minimal leak down.You wouldn't want to be following me with that going out my tail pipe. Dave Y. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 21:58:34 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:58:34 -0800 Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner References: <20071230.233932.5196.2@webmail18.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: I make my own with a delrin block faced with neoprene and a coil spring. Looks like it came out a motorcycle--surprise, surprise. The little flat springs suck bilgewater. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Joe Boruch Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 8:39 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken timing chain tensioner. This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all with this same block). Some have broken in a season or less, while this one was used last season and then failed sometime this season. These have been from the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was from who. Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I am doing wrong that is causing the failures? They are not wearing thru, but rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot. Any better designed tensioners out there for the tractor motors? Joe(B) _____________________________________________________________ Are you overpaying for motorcycle insurance? Get a quote today. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmN0Fya3y18EGne27K9QLpQ2 rxCQei95XilDIzITY2om3OIa/ Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillB at bnj.com Sun Dec 30 22:01:36 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 21:01:36 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <20071229.120858.1788.7.wgrosenbach@juno.com><20071229192643.47550187A43@autox.team.net><002f01c84a82$b0f77370$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> <47786548.4020401@bradakis.com> Message-ID: too funny--my "mea culpa" bounce email got bounced. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 8:42 PM To: Mark J. Bradakis; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Valve cover breather Oh yeah, now I remember. You'll just have to remind me every now and then that it's a good idea. I think I have a complete turnover of my entire inventory of memory every six months. You might want to just just save the message and send it to me semi-annually. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Mark J. Bradakis Sent: Sun 12/30/2007 7:43 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > Arrggh--another 4k bounce. Mark, you really should up that a little. The vast majority of replies that bounce due to size limits are because people include a bunch of crap in their replies that just doesn't need to be there. And quite aware of the irony, here's a previous exchange on this subject. mjb. ---- From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Dec 30 22:11:55 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 00:11:55 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: For a TR4, it might be the lesser of two evils.... I really see no evidence of oil in my exhaust pipe, believing it likely burns off before getting to the end of the pipe. I have no scientific or empirical proof of anything........... Joe A > I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case > venting connecting to the exhaust system. After all we are talking about oil > being injected in the stream after combustion. It has been prohibited by SCCA as > long as I can remember, however there appears to be no mention in the 1972 > GCR rules under the "oil catch tanks" section. The second oldest GCR that I > have on hand (2003 17.26) states the exact wording as the 2008 GCR: "A crankcase > vacuum breather that passes through the oil catch tank(s) to exhaust systems > or vacuum devices that connect directly to exhaust systems is prohibited." > > I have yet to run my TR4 hard enough or long enough but my VW Rabbit can put > a half a quart in the catch tank on a hot day during a 20 minute session. On > a 3 hour enduro we have to add a quart at a pit stop on a Scirocco and > finish almost a quart low. Both engines are very strong with minimal leak down.You > wouldn't want to be following me with that going out my tail pipe. > > Dave Y. > From JWoesvra at aol.com Mon Dec 31 06:49:10 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:49:10 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/30/2007 11:20:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DSPGTi at aol.com writes: I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case venting connecting to the exhaust system. After all we are talking about oil being injected in the stream after combustion. It has been prohibited by SCCA as long as I can remember, however there appears to be no mention in the 1972 GCR rules under the "oil catch tanks" section. The second oldest GCR that I have on hand (2003 17.26) states the exact wording as the 2008 GCR: "A crankcase vacuum breather that passes through the oil catch tank(s) to exhaust systems or vacuum devices that connect directly to exhaust systems is prohibited." This whole issue has nothing to do with what SCCA does or doesn't allow unless you intend to race with them. >From my point of view as a Vintage Guy running Vintage Races, my main concern is providing as much quality track time to as many drivers, safely, as possible. This means starting at 8am and going steady until 6pm at most events for three days. It also means coming up with as many was as possible to prevent some GERBIL from dumping slippery STUFF on the track. Then we spend the whole next session dragging in the BOZOS that wreck in the STUFF, not to mention actually trying to clean up the STUFF. This is why we have permitted roller rockers, accusumps, even dry sumps in certain classes. It also is primarily why we allow steel cranks and Carrillo rods. All these things help your reliability and if you are wise you will use them and still keep your RPM at a sane level. I can't control that but I know we have gained a considerable amount of lost track time back since we started this concept. If a suction crankcase vent keeps oil off the track, I am for it. BTW, we have made "leakers" race worthy and gotten them through the weekend by just zip-tying baby diapers under the offending leak and changing them between sessions. Wouldn't that freak out an SCCA tech guy? Ya gotta be creative and open minded in this business. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Dec 31 07:00:23 2007 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:00:23 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather / filling catch can In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071231140128.F2249187A6C@autox.team.net> We've had differing amounts of oil go to the catch can based on can placement. Venting out the big pipe on the LH side of the engine to a catch can located in the LH side of the engine compartment is a BAD idea, it turns out. RH corners fill the can. My catch can is on the RH edge of the battery tray, so the big vent line goes up and over the engine, and the valve cover breather comes from the top of the oil fill hole. I put a very light film of oil in it. I go a season or more without draining it. I do leave a nice little oil slick under the car when it's parked, though. For my (Ford) diff, I had problems filling its catch can that I finally solved by having the vent link feed upwards into the bottom of the can. The oil drains back into the diff that way. - Tony At 10:20 PM 12/30/2007, DSPGTi at aol.com wrote: >I have yet to run my TR4 hard enough or long enough but my VW Rabbit can put >a half a quart in the catch tank on a hot day during a 20 minute >session. On a >3 hour enduro we have to add a quart at a pit stop on a Scirocco and finish >almost a quart low. Both engines are very strong with minimal leak down.You >wouldn't want to be following me with that going out my tail pipe. From DSPGTi at aol.com Mon Dec 31 08:44:35 2007 From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:44:35 EST Subject: [Fot] wideband fuel-air monitor recommendation? Message-ID: We have used the Innovate LM1( _http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php_ (http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php) ) with great results. Can be calibrated for different fuels including methanol, has data logging and has additional inputs for other sensors. Good Luck **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From tarch at bellsouth.net Mon Dec 31 08:48:07 2007 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:48:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301c84bc4$8b731f30$6501a8c0@richardiipc> Joe A wrote about his personal opinion: ".......I have no scientific or empirical proof of anything..........." And now we have Iowa with the destiny of the entire United States and probably the whole world in its hands this week. All I can say is, Joe, Jack, Tony and the rest of you "I was born on a farm out in Ioway..." singing good-ole-boys, just don't make no mistakes in the caucuses. And you surely know that on Wednesday you represent the entire unified political thinking of the Friends of Triumph. So you know your job. Now just do it! You screw up and we'll see you at the track! Richard From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Dec 31 09:10:55 2007 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:10:55 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/31/2007 9:48:25 AM Central Standard Time, tarch at bellsouth.net writes: > ".......I have no scientific or empirical proof of anything..........." > > > And now we have Iowa with the destiny of the entire United States and > probably the whole world in its hands this week. All I can say is, Joe, > Jack, Tony and the rest of you "I was born on a farm out in Ioway..." > singing good-ole-boys, just don't make no mistakes in the caucuses. And you > surely know that on Wednesday you represent the entire unified political > thinking of the Friends of Triumph. So you know your job. Now just do it! > > You screw up and we'll see you at the track! > Actually Jack and Tony are both across the boarder in IlliNOISE. But ah yes,...for sure Bill Bryson would call Joe Alexander a "THUNDERBOLT KID" through and through. First thing every morning, he checks the corn and hog prices. Bill (Damdinger) ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From S.Janzen at comcast.net Mon Dec 31 09:42:48 2007 From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:42:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <000301c84bc4$8b731f30$6501a8c0@richardiipc> Message-ID: <000401c84bcc$2dc891f0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> wait a minute. We have unified political thinking? I bet we shouldn't even go there. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Taylor" To: ; ; ; ; ; Cc: Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > Joe A wrote about his personal opinion: > > ".......I have no scientific or empirical proof of anything..........." > > > And now we have Iowa with the destiny of the entire United States and > probably the whole world in its hands this week. All I can say is, Joe, > Jack, Tony and the rest of you "I was born on a farm out in Ioway..." > singing good-ole-boys, just don't make no mistakes in the caucuses. And > you > surely know that on Wednesday you represent the entire unified political > thinking of the Friends of Triumph. So you know your job. Now just do it! > > You screw up and we'll see you at the track! > > Richard > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 31 10:15:16 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:15:16 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: That's correct....we are a list of FREE SPIRITS. Or perhaps a list of Free Flowing Spirits. "TIME GOES BY QUICKLY WHEN YOU ARE ALIVE......" An Alexanderism > wait a minute. We have unified political thinking? I bet we shouldn't > even go there. > From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Dec 31 10:48:36 2007 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:48:36 EST Subject: [Fot] IOWA Message-ID: "First thing every morning, he checks the corn and hog prices.", says the Mighty Damdinger, about JA. _____________________________________________________ not likely... I was skiing in Colorado once when a cattleman asked me about Limousin Cattle in Iowa. I told him I didnt know anything about them....he became agitated, as he thought it was impossible to be from Iowa and not know about the Limousin Breed. Never mind that my father was farmer and farm implement dealer. And that I was in the ag business most of my life. If those Limousin Cattle had wheels, I might know more about them. I plowed corn, tossed hay bails, cut farm equipment into scrap, steam cleaned tractors....I discovered that Agri-business was another way of spelling Hard Work. Strange that I eventually migrated to a tractor based engine, in my hobby...or perhaps not. Happy New Year!~ > Actually Jack and Tony are both across the boarder in IlliNOISE. > > But ah yes,...for sure Bill Bryson would call Joe Alexander a "THUNDERBOLT > KID" through and through. First thing every morning, he checks the corn and > hog prices. > > Bill (Damdinger) > > From Herald948 at aol.com Mon Dec 31 11:30:31 2007 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:30:31 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/31/2007 12:15:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, N197TR4 at cs.com writes: That's correct....we are a list of FREE SPIRITS. Or perhaps a list of Free Flowing Spirits. ==AM== And personally I think that Free Flowing Spirits are probably the best (if not only) way to deal with politics. Pour me a tall one now, please.... :-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 31 12:26:49 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:26:49 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: Message-ID: Amen to all of that. I hate spinning in oil. In fact my big concern listening to how some of the guys are thinking about doing this is that it would turn their cars into oiling machines, doing a fine job of depositing an even coat of oil on the entire track. I vividly remember a corvair-powered Devin that did a spectacular job of that at Portland. The entire track got gradually slipperier until a whole bunch of us spun simultaneously. I had decided something was wrong with my car and was headed for the pit road when I spun at sub-racing speed. -----Original Message----- From: JWoesvra at aol.com [mailto:JWoesvra at aol.com] Sent: Mon 12/31/2007 5:49 AM To: DSPGTi at aol.com; N197TR4 at cs.com; jwags at dotnet.com; wgrosenbach at juno.com; william.tobin3 at verizon.net; Bill Babcock Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather In a message dated 12/30/2007 11:20:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DSPGTi at aol.com writes: I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case venting connecting to the exhaust system. After all we are talking about oil being injected in the stream after combustion. It has been prohibited by SCCA as long as I can remember, however there appears to be no mention in the 1972 GCR rules under the "oil catch tanks" section. The second oldest GCR that I have on hand (2003 17.26) states the exact wording as the 2008 GCR: "A crankcase vacuum breather that passes through the oil catch tank(s) to exhaust systems or vacuum devices that connect directly to exhaust systems is prohibited." This whole issue has nothing to do with what SCCA does or doesn't allow unless you intend to race with them. >From my point of view as a Vintage Guy running Vintage Races, my main concern is providing as much quality track time to as many drivers, safely, as possible. This means starting at 8am and going steady until 6pm at most events for three days. It also means coming up with as many was as possible to prevent some GERBIL from dumping slippery STUFF on the track. Then we spend the whole next session dragging in the BOZOS that wreck in the STUFF, not to mention actually trying to clean up the STUFF. This is why we have permitted roller rockers, accusumps, even dry sumps in certain classes. It also is primarily why we allow steel cranks and Carrillo rods. All these things help your reliability and if you are wise you will use them and still keep your RPM at a sane level. I can't control that but I know we have gained a considerable amount of lost track time back since we started this concept. If a suction crankcase vent keeps oil off the track, I am for it. BTW, we have made "leakers" race worthy and gotten them through the weekend by just zip-tying baby diapers under the offending leak and changing them between sessions. Wouldn't that freak out an SCCA tech guy? Ya gotta be creative and open minded in this business. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From BillB at bnj.com Mon Dec 31 12:29:20 2007 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:29:20 -0800 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather References: <000301c84bc4$8b731f30$6501a8c0@richardiipc> <000401c84bcc$2dc891f0$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: Unified in the same sense there there might be a unified field theory, but it probably would be so complex that no one would understand it. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Scott Janzen Sent: Mon 12/31/2007 8:42 AM To: Richard Taylor; N197TR4 at cs.com; DSPGTi at aol.com; jwags at dotnet.com; wgrosenbach at juno.com; william.tobin3 at verizon.net; Bill Babcock Cc: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather wait a minute. We have unified political thinking? I bet we shouldn't even go there. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Taylor" To: ; ; ; ; ; Cc: Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover breather > Joe A wrote about his personal opinion: > > ".......I have no scientific or empirical proof of anything..........." > > > And now we have Iowa with the destiny of the entire United States and > probably the whole world in its hands this week. All I can say is, Joe, > Jack, Tony and the rest of you "I was born on a farm out in Ioway..." > singing good-ole-boys, just don't make no mistakes in the caucuses. And > you > surely know that on Wednesday you represent the entire unified political > thinking of the Friends of Triumph. So you know your job. Now just do it! > > You screw up and we'll see you at the track! > > Richard > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spreiss at verizon.net Sun Dec 30 20:33:56 2007 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:33:56 +1100 Subject: [Fot] clean running Message-ID: <004f01c84b5d$f9908960$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> .....BTW, we have made "leakers" race worthy and gotten them through the weekend by just zip-tying baby diapers under the offending leak and changing them between sessions. Wouldn't that freak out an SCCA tech guy? Ya gotta be creative and open minded in this business. I think it would be very cool if fot took a proactive role in helping to develop cleaner and safer running vintage race cars in all jurisdictions and sanctioning bodies. Since joining I have learned so much about how to make the cars go faster and which tracks are most challenging and why. This is the first thread that seems to have touched on something I have sensed that was missing in the mindset, that being how to develop our hobby and passion to actually bring about a positive change in the global sense. I fully admit to being a neophyte in both realms, but though that this was worth mentioning to the group. Steve P. From Cofrog at aol.com Mon Dec 31 13:06:45 2007 From: Cofrog at aol.com (Cofrog at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:06:45 EST Subject: [Fot] IOWA Message-ID: I once rode in a stretch limousin that had wheels. Somewhere down south I bvelieve. Maybe Terlingua Texas as I was eating chile with some guy in a bib! Happy New Year Dan F **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From JWoesvra at aol.com Mon Dec 31 15:09:56 2007 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:09:56 EST Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather Message-ID: In a message dated 12/30/2007 11:20:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DSPGTi at aol.com writes: I'm very surprised any Vintage organization would allow any crank case venting connecting to the exhaust system. Once again, we will allow anything that works to help alleviate oiling the track. The proof is in the Puddin! If you SUCK your oil out and put it on MY track, you are goin' home right now! If you come up with a way to keep it from slowly dripping out, that's what I want. I don't car if you have a helicopter following you with a suction hose to your catch tank. What does GCR say about helicopter support vehicles? Jack Woehrle **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) From spitfiresuz at 141.com Mon Dec 31 15:33:46 2007 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:33:46 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Valve cover breather In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47796E4A.1030006@141.com> I believe they are allowed as long as you don't utilize the downdraft for brake cooling... ;) Susan :) JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > > What does GCR say about helicopter support vehicles? > > Jack Woehrle > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > -- ** Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. ** From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Mon Dec 31 19:01:35 2007 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 13:01:35 +1100 Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner In-Reply-To: <20071230.233932.5196.2@webmail18.dca.untd.com> References: <20071230.233932.5196.2@webmail18.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Joe, Check to see if you have any radial run out in either the crankshaft or camshaft gear. This may not seem like an issue for your type of failure. However, if you indeed have run out greater than a few thou, the chain tensioner will be continually flexing, rather than simply exerting tension force on the chain. This flexing will eventually lead to fatigue, and the most likeliest point will be close to the fixed end of the tensioner. I have had NEW crank gears with more than 0.020" thou of radial run out in them and once the timing chain drive has been assembled, you can physically see the tensioner being flexed while turning the engine over by hand. Hope this helps Peter V TR-4 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces+pvucinic=netspace.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Boruch Sent: Monday, 31 December 2007 3:40 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken timing chain tensioner. This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all with this same block). Some have broken in a season or less, while this one was used last season and then failed sometime this season. These have been from the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was from who. Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I am doing wrong that is causing the failures? They are not wearing thru, but rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot. Any better designed tensioners out there for the tractor motors? Joe(B) _____________________________________________________________ Are you overpaying for motorcycle insurance? Get a quote today. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmN0Fya3y18EGne27K9QLpQ 2 rxCQei95XilDIzITY2om3OIa/ Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4.tony at virgin.net Mon Dec 31 19:10:19 2007 From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 02:10:19 -0000 Subject: [Fot] IOWA References: Message-ID: <000401c84c1b$75258400$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT> Happy New Year Gentlemen .... hope 2008 is a fast and happy one for you all. Tony