[British-cars] [TR] BMIHT Certificate Quandry

[John Macartney]

Hi, Bill

> Thank you very kindly for a very clear 'day in the life' of this data that
> we are all trying to access for our individual vehicles.  While the cert
> that began this thread has very little additional data i.e no other 
> recored
> number, date of despatch or destination other than "USA", does the high 
> body
> number, 986001-TS, and it's format not seem odd to you as a production
> number for this time, 1958?

Unfortunately, I obviously no longer have access to this material, so I 
can't verify or validate your query. As I believe I may have intimated in my 
earlier post, the fact this car currently *appears* to have a body number 
that would not apparantly fit the build sequencing for TR's of that year, 
suggests as I commented that it may have had a full body rebuild and might 
have used parts from another car? From a BMIHT perspective, this is not at 
all unusual. There are periodically cases where owners claim their cars are 
totally original, yet the data they provided often proved conclusively that 
parts from more than one different car have been used and the whole lot has 
been skillfully cobbled together.

> Also, after your explaination do you believe that the 'Build Record' that
> John H. mentioned would carry any additional data for this car?

Not too sure which record John Herrera referred to. I *think* the TRA 
records came from data held by US importers and Standard-Triumph North 
America, based on vehicle shipping information and the cars themselves as 
they arrived. What no-one will now know, is what happened to the cars 
between off-loading and despatch to dealers. In the days of the sidescreen 
TR's, shpping damage was considerable. This started at the docks in 
Liverpool and Southampton. I well remember (as a teenager) seeing TR's in a 
long line with large barge boards fitted front and rear, being pushed by the 
car at the back to the loading crane. Additionally, cars were either shipped 
between decks or as open deck cargo and not too much care was taken to 
ensure any of them were properly lashed down. Consequently, many vehicles 
did arrive looking as though they had been on a pool table! Many of the pics 
taken at the time for marine insurance claims are now at BMIHT. Equally, 
no-one can be sure if their treatment on unloading was any better or more 
considerate but of transit damage, there was often much to repair and/or 
replace.

With respect to John's observations that "BMIHT certs come from records made 
before the car was built. The records show how a car was planned to be 
built, but due to shortages or parts availabilty the car may have been built 
differently from the planned configuration. This explains why some cars 
differ from the BMIHT certs. about the BMIHT material being created before 
the car was built." John obviously has a firm opinion on this but it is not 
my recollection or experience from my days in Coventry or later at BMIHT, 
Gaydon.

I am completely at a loss to know how John uncovered this information 
because the production system did not allow a car to be built to a spec 
other than laid laid down on the Prod Tally. It would be interesting to know 
where John obtained his info. Perhaps he'd like to tell me off-list?

Cheers, Jonmac
MG4305DL(O)
OUR611H