From lorenzoscribe at hotmail.com Sat May 15 18:01:55 2010 From: lorenzoscribe at hotmail.com (Larry Steckel) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 20:01:55 -0400 Subject: [Autox] No brake lights Message-ID: Fellow, Here is one to chew on. My brother drives a 1998 Ford Explorer. He brought it over complaining that the brake lights didn't work. The bulbs were OK, the parking light part of the dual filament bulbs worked, but I replaced both bulbs. The fuse was OK, but I replaced the fuse as well. To my mind that meant that the brake light switch was wonky, so we went to a Ford dealership and replaced that as well. The brake lights still don't work. I'll admit that I am stumped on this one. Any ideas from the assembled multitude? Larry Steckel Quickly running out of talent From mark at bradakis.com Sat May 15 18:20:13 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 18:20:13 -0600 Subject: [Autox] No brake lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BEF3A3D.9070800@bradakis.com> Did you use a voltmeter or something to see if you were getting power to the fuse, to the switch, to the lamp assemblies? mjb. From MWood24020 at aol.com Sat May 15 18:19:02 2010 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 20:19:02 EDT Subject: [Autox] No brake lights Message-ID: <7a3b4.7edda5a.392093f6@aol.com> You check the grounds? In a message dated 5/15/2010 5:04:41 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lorenzoscribe at hotmail.com writes: Fellow, Here is one to chew on. My brother drives a 1998 Ford Explorer. He brought it over complaining that the brake lights didn't work. The bulbs were OK, the parking light part of the dual filament bulbs worked, but I replaced both bulbs. The fuse was OK, but I replaced the fuse as well. To my mind that meant that the brake light switch was wonky, so we went to a Ford dealership and replaced that as well. The brake lights still don't work. I'll admit that I am stumped on this one. Any ideas from the assembled multitude? Larry Steckel Quickly running out of talent _______________________________________________ Autox at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $11.47 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/autox/mwood24020 at aol.com From MWood24020 at aol.com Sat May 15 18:19:57 2010 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 20:19:57 EDT Subject: [Autox] No brake lights Message-ID: <7a449.2b1bc0f7.3920942d@aol.com> Ooops...just reread, sounds like the tail lights work... In a message dated 5/15/2010 5:04:41 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lorenzoscribe at hotmail.com writes: Fellow, Here is one to chew on. My brother drives a 1998 Ford Explorer. He brought it over complaining that the brake lights didn't work. The bulbs were OK, the parking light part of the dual filament bulbs worked, but I replaced both bulbs. The fuse was OK, but I replaced the fuse as well. To my mind that meant that the brake light switch was wonky, so we went to a Ford dealership and replaced that as well. The brake lights still don't work. I'll admit that I am stumped on this one. Any ideas from the assembled multitude? Larry Steckel Quickly running out of talent _______________________________________________ Autox at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $11.47 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/autox/mwood24020 at aol.com From jlieberman37 at comcast.net Sat May 15 19:23:34 2010 From: jlieberman37 at comcast.net (John Lieberman) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 20:23:34 -0500 Subject: [Autox] No brake lights In-Reply-To: <7a449.2b1bc0f7.3920942d@aol.com> References: <7a449.2b1bc0f7.3920942d@aol.com> Message-ID: <4BEF4916.8010109@comcast.net> I would agree with Mark. Use a volt meter to check for "juice" at every step along the line. Start at the bulb socket and work your way backwards. If you should find that you're getting juice at the bulb socket then it has to be either the bulb or the ground. Or it could be that the bulb sockets are just grungy and need a good spray of contact cleaner. If no juice at the bulb socket, work your way backwards through the circuit until you find a good reliable source of 12V. John MWood24020 at aol.com wrote: > Ooops...just reread, sounds like the tail lights work... > > > In a message dated 5/15/2010 5:04:41 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > lorenzoscribe at hotmail.com writes: > > Fellow, > > Here is one to chew on. My brother drives a 1998 Ford Explorer. > > > He brought it over complaining that the brake lights didn't work. The bulbs > were OK, the parking light part of the dual filament bulbs worked, but I > replaced both bulbs. The fuse was OK, but I replaced the fuse as well. To > my > mind that meant that the brake light switch was wonky, so we went to a Ford > dealership and replaced that as well. The brake lights still don't work. > > > > I'll admit that I am stumped on this one. Any ideas from the assembled > multitude? > > > > Larry Steckel > > Quickly running out of talent > _______________________________________________ > > Autox at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $11.47 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/autox/mwood24020 at aol.com > _______________________________________________ > > Autox at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $11.47 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/autox/jlieberman37 at comcast.net From samandgreg at netins.net Sat May 15 20:38:14 2010 From: samandgreg at netins.net (Greg) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 21:38:14 -0500 Subject: [Autox] No brake lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Larry: The brake light on my Lumina (I know it's not a Ford product) did exactly the same thing. After doing some research, it turned out to be the turn signal switch. I have no idea why it was routed there, but it was. New switch, and it was fixed. I found this info by doing a bunch of GOOGLE searches looking for similar problems. Ford may have done something equally as goofy. FWIW Greg S. At 07:01 PM 5/15/2010, you wrote: >Fellow, > >Here is one to chew on. My brother drives a 1998 Ford Explorer. > > >He brought it over complaining that the brake lights didn't work. The bulbs >were OK, the parking light part of the dual filament bulbs worked, but I >replaced both bulbs. The fuse was OK, but I replaced the fuse as well. To my >mind that meant that the brake light switch was wonky, so we went to a Ford >dealership and replaced that as well. The brake lights still don't work. > > > >I'll admit that I am stumped on this one. Any ideas from the assembled >multitude? > > > >Larry Steckel > >Quickly running out of talent >_______________________________________________ > >Autox at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $11.47 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/autox/samandgreg at netins.net From mark at bradakis.com Sat May 15 21:19:47 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 21:19:47 -0600 Subject: [Autox] No brake lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BEF6453.7040509@bradakis.com> I sort of remember hearing about a car, perhaps the latest Corvette, which has three wires going to the rear of the car - power, ground and data. There's a switching computer mounted back there that interprets the data line and turns on the appropriate lights. I bet that would be a pain to debug at home! mjb. From ralph at nars.com Sun May 16 14:43:02 2010 From: ralph at nars.com (ralph at nars.com) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 16:43:02 -0400 Subject: [Autox] No brake lights Message-ID: <20100516164302.rgrfardcrhb4kw0g@webmail.nars.com> If it is similar (which I believe this is) to my '98 F150, it it the connector to the MFS (Multi-Function Switch) - i.e turn signal switch. I would bet that you have a tilt wheel in this vehicle. There is a known issue with the wiring harness to the switch is a _little_ too short and, as it ages, finally pulls out the the wires or breaks the connector. Pretty simple to diagnose, remove the cover ( OK that's a little more work,) and push the connector back in and taa-daa: brakes! I found that is not so simple to make it stay fixed. Mine works fine - until my wife uses the truck and tilts the wheel down. Then it fix time again... -RALPH- > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 20:01:55 -0400 > From: Larry Steckel > Subject: [Autox] No brake lights > To: Team.Net Autocross > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Fellow, > > Here is one to chew on. My brother drives a 1998 Ford Explorer. > > > He brought it over complaining that the brake lights didn't work. The bulbs > were OK, the parking light part of the dual filament bulbs worked, but I > replaced both bulbs. The fuse was OK, but I replaced the fuse as well. To my > mind that meant that the brake light switch was wonky, so we went to a Ford > dealership and replaced that as well. The brake lights still don't work. > > > > I'll admit that I am stumped on this one. Any ideas from the assembled > multitude? > > > Larry Steckel > > Quickly running out of talent From emmertk at gmail.com Sun May 16 15:00:53 2010 From: emmertk at gmail.com (Kevin Emmert) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 16:00:53 -0500 Subject: [Autox] Autox Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is a recall on Fords right now, I *think* it includes the Explorer, for symptoms that seem very similar to what you are describing. I unfortunately don't remember specifics, other than it causes fires, nor can I find the Consumer Reports mag that had this information. I believe it was the Jan 2010 issue, I do know it had cell phones on the cover. Hope this helps!! Kevin Emmert > > Fellow, > > Here is one to chew on. My brother drives a 1998 Ford Explorer. > > > He brought it over complaining that the brake lights didn't work. The bulbs > were OK, the parking light part of the dual filament bulbs worked, but I > replaced both bulbs. The fuse was OK, but I replaced the fuse as well. To > my > mind that meant that the brake light switch was wonky, so we went to a Ford > dealership and replaced that as well. The brake lights still don't work. > > > > I'll admit that I am stumped on this one. Any ideas from the assembled > multitude? > > > > Larry Steckel > > Quickly running out of talent From lorenzoscribe at hotmail.com Sun May 16 16:51:13 2010 From: lorenzoscribe at hotmail.com (Larry Steckel) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 18:51:13 -0400 Subject: [Autox] Brake Lights Message-ID: Guys, Thanks to everyone who responded. I appreciate your help. I will admit that when I had to send my brother on his way yesterday without brake lights I wasn't happy. A severe blow to my reputation and all that. When my wife and I got home from church this morning, I had a phone message from my brother. He decided that he didn't want to get a ticket for not having brake lights so he took his Explorer into a Pep Boys. (Not my first choice--but Oh well). After he told them all that we had done, the mechanic did a few continuity checks and found (get this) the prongs on the fuse block had been bent and were not making contact with the fuse. Therefore no lights. He crimped the prongs, re-inserted the fuse and everything works. I am happy that the damn thing is fixed, but I think I am more confused than ever. I had to tug with the tweezers to get that fuse out to check it. It looked like it hadn't been disturbed since the truck had been built. And those mini fuses all have rails on the sides of the body and channels in the fuse block, the fuse has to be indexed or it can't be pushed home. So how in blazes do prongs that haven't been touched since my brother bought the Explorer get bent yet work all this time and decided to pack it in without every being boggered with? I don't understand that one at all. Larry Steckel From Sethracer at aol.com Mon May 17 00:21:49 2010 From: Sethracer at aol.com (Sethracer at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 02:21:49 EDT Subject: [Autox] Brake light issue Message-ID: <1d9f.465c1101.39223a7d@aol.com> In a message dated 5/16/2010 11:29:26 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, autox-request at autox.team.net writes: The brake light on my Lumina (I know it's not a Ford product) did exactly the same thing. After doing some research, it turned out to be the turn signal switch. I have no idea why it was routed there, but it was. Almost all cars, at least all cars that use the same filament for both the brake and the turn signal lights, feed the brake lights through the turn signal switch, so that if you are sitting still with the brakes on, making a turn, the rear turn signal lights on that side will still flash on and off. The turn signal feed circuit interrupts the brake circuit and feeds its own flashing power to it. So - the question is, do the turn signal lights still work on the Explorer? - on the assumption that the same filament is used for both brake and turn. If the turn signals work, it is the circuit feeding the turn signal switch that is bad. If neither the turn or brake lights work, it is probably the feed from the switch back to the rear bulbs. I hope you find it! Seth Emerson C's the Day! - Corvair, Camaro, Corvette From bfetch at tpg.com Thu May 20 08:39:46 2010 From: bfetch at tpg.com (Fetch, Brandon) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 09:39:46 -0500 Subject: [Autox] No brake lights In-Reply-To: <4BEF6453.7040509@bradakis.com> References: <4BEF6453.7040509@bradakis.com> Message-ID: Funny you mention that - 3 wires (power, ground, & data) is a LOT easier to troubleshoot than some of the rats nests we've had over the years. Coming from an IT support perspective I would LOVE to only have 3 wires to check/review when troubleshooting a problem. ;-) -----Original Message----- From: autox-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:autox-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J Bradakis Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 11:20 PM To: Team.Net Autocross Subject: Re: [Autox] No brake lights I sort of remember hearing about a car, perhaps the latest Corvette, which has three wires going to the rear of the car - power, ground and data. There's a switching computer mounted back there that interprets the data line and turns on the appropriate lights. I bet that would be a pain to debug at home! mjb. _______________________________________________ Autox at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $11.47 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/autox/bfetch at texpac.com This message is intended only for the person(s) to which it is addressed and may contain privileged, confidential and/or insider information.. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action concerning the contents of this message and any attachment(s) by anyone other than the named recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. From Bill at Fuhrmann.us Thu May 20 12:12:58 2010 From: Bill at Fuhrmann.us (Bill Fuhrmann) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 13:12:58 -0500 Subject: [Autox] No brake lights In-Reply-To: References: <4BEF6453.7040509@bradakis.com> Message-ID: >> I sort of remember hearing about a car, perhaps the latest Corvette, >> which has three wires going to the rear of the car - power, ground >> and data. There's a switching computer mounted back there that >> interprets the data line and turns on the appropriate lights. >> >> I bet that would be a pain to debug at home! > Funny you mention that - 3 wires (power, ground, & data) is a LOT easier > to > troubleshoot than some of the rats nests we've had over the years. > Coming from an IT support perspective I would LOVE to only have 3 wires to > check/review when troubleshooting a problem. ;-) You must have a can bus (or other appropriate protocol) reader and universal decoding device. How much did it cost? Those of us without them will find it impossible to find out what the problem is. Might be a wire broken, easy if it is in the link from the hub to the light. Might be a light that is not listening to the signal from the hub. Might be a switch that is not sending the signal to the hub. Might be noise on the line. Can't tell what the players are doing without the program. Wandering through the "rats nests" can be tedious but not that difficult if you have a manual with a schematic and some high school science. I was looking at putting one of the newer OEM radios in my 20 year old car and the shop said that they couldn't even test the ones that they pull out during upgrades because they don't have the equipment to send the data stream to tell it that it is allowed to turn on from the front panel.