From mrtebo at shaw.ca Fri Aug 1 10:14:54 2008 From: mrtebo at shaw.ca (Ron Tebo) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:14:54 -0600 Subject: [Alpines] Alpine Wire Wheels Message-ID: <4893367E.2060605@shaw.ca> All: Can anyone tell me whether knock-on wirewheels are the same for all series , or are there different spline patterns? Ron Tebo From lehtinen.lauri at kolumbus.fi Mon Aug 4 02:57:31 2008 From: lehtinen.lauri at kolumbus.fi (Lauri Lehtinen) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:57:31 +0300 Subject: [Alpines] series 5 tacho? In-Reply-To: <4893367E.2060605@shaw.ca> Message-ID: I think I convert my s4 to negative earth and an alternator. There is quite cheap alternator which is said to be complete similiar to Lucas. So I should also convert my clock and tacho to neg earth, but it might be easier to put s5 tacho in. Does anyone have such in his carage? Lauri Lehtinen journalist, engineer Helsinki, Finland Mobile: +358 400 851988 From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Wed Aug 6 17:27:57 2008 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 19:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Alpines] Update - BRISBANE MARINA BRITISH CAR MEET - Sept. 6 & 7, 2008 Message-ID: <2051838.1218065277648.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> NEW WEBSITE: www.allcarcentral.com/thebritishcarnetwork.html LODGING ALTERNATIVES Dear British Motorhead, We have checked out the lodging situation in the Brisbane area for people who live far enough away to stay overnight for a night or two for a more relaxed weekend. Carole Burton, the official British meet travel agent, got us a DEAL at the Radisson Hotel, right in the Brisbane Marina! The Radisson is a very upscale, business type hotel with gourmet restaurant. We have special British Car Meet rate of $109 per day, Friday, Saturday or Sunday. Address, 5000 Sierra Point Parkway, Brisbane, Phone 415-467-4400. Ask for the British Car Meet rates. More local North Bay lodging on our website: www.allcarcentral.com/thebritishcarnetwork.html Best, Rick Feibusch 310-392-6605 Meet Coordinator - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NEW WEBSITE: www.allcarcentral.com/thebritishcarnetwork.html THE BRISBANE MARINA BRITISH CAR MEET * 2008 The Weekend Of Saturday & Sunday * Sept. 6th & 7th Join your British car friends for a smashing day at the Brisbane Marina at Sierra Point. Over 300 quirky, classic, and lovable British cars will once again gather in the Bay Area for our 31st Annual British Car Meet. Don't have a show car? Don't worry! Daily drivers, vintage racers, street rods and works-in-progress are as welcome as Concours quality show cars. This is essentially the old Palo Alto British Meet in a new location. We are also expecting another great display of automotive oddities provided by the Arcane Auto Society. Spectators attend and park for free. SUNDAY SHOW - BRISBANE MARINA - SEPTEMBER 7th Cars will be placed at 9:00AM and the fun goes on all day. The food will be handled by the Brisbane Lions Club and the Sierra Point Yacht Club will open their doors on Sunday for a reasonable, sit-down breakfast Herb Gibson's Jazz Orchestra will be back again, set up just outside the Yacht Club. There is no preregistration. There will be marque awards in over 15 classes and all entrants will receive a commemorative gift. The registration fee is $25 per car at the gate. SATURDAY TOUR - SEPTEMBER 6th The British Car Meet TOUR TO THE SEA starts at the Brisbane Marina boathouse (the same place as the Sunday Car Show) and winds through the hills to the sea. Itbs no-cost option for people who like to drive their cars as well as show them. We will be sending cars off between 9:00AM and 10:30AM. A detailed map will be provided. The tour ends at Cameron's Pub in Half Moon Bay where we will be kicking tyres and telling tall tales in the car park well into the afternoon. DIRECTIONS: The Brisbane Marina is lacated just east of the Bayshore Freeway (101) between San Francisco and the SF Airport/Highway 380. Just take the Brisbane/Sierra Point Exit and follow the signs to the Marina. Trailer parking will be available on-site. Call for information: 310-392-6605 e-mail: Brisbane Marina 2008 Website: http://www.allcarcentral.com/thebritishcarnetwork.html From mrtebo at shaw.ca Thu Aug 7 06:27:21 2008 From: mrtebo at shaw.ca (Ron Tebo) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 06:27:21 -0600 Subject: [Alpines] Brake switch and door window questions In-Reply-To: <8CAC654D6055145-E74-3CF3@webmail-nb07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAB74B2FC1A6F0-1548-3608@webmail-nf18.sim.aol.com> <4885D3DB.6080302@shaw.ca> <8CABE884AD5D245-C30-C1E6@webmail-nh08.sysops.aol.com> <488DC253.3060707@shaw.ca> <8CAC654D6055145-E74-3CF3@webmail-nb07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <489AEA29.9020307@shaw.ca> Rob; Glad you got problem resolved, and hope you have great drive to the Rendezvous! (below is some advice I forgot to send on window replacement, and will send more in a second e-mail). Ron Tebo Subject: Re: Installing Windows Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:20:16 EST From: JACranwell at aol.com To: RSWiser at aol.com, alpines at autox.team.net Rob, If it is the winding window, rather than the quarterlight, then you need to: 1. Undo the mounting screws of the winder mechanism. 2. Position the Glass towards the top of the door, so as to get access to the bottom slider channel. It's useful to have a second pair of hands for this part. 3. Slide the inner channel of the mechanism into the outer slider channel, one end at a time. 4. Re-attach the winder mechanism bolts. 5. Test and close up. I think that is about it, at least that's as I recall it for SIII-SV. It could be different for SI-SII, but I'm not sure. I'm sure I'll corrected if I've missed anything. Good Luck, Julian. SIII Subject: RE: window glass replacement Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 08:53:06 -0700 From: "Patrick Wheeler" To: When talking to Rick of Sunbeam Specialties when I ordered a new rubber window strip from him, he suggested using a little motor oil rubbed along the rubber. The purpose is two fold: one to get the rubber into the slot correctly and smoothly, second is the chemical reaction in the rubber with the oil causes the rubber to swell and compress the glass into place much stronger than we can place it manually. I am not sure if water would do the same thing, but I imagine that WD-40 would. -Patrick -----Original Message----- From: owner-alpines at autox.team.net [mailto:owner-alpines at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Alpdavegre at aol.com Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 8:37 PM To: Christopher.Albers at bubbs.biola.edu; Alpines at autox.team.net Subject: Re: window glass replacement Chris, Yes the soapy water will work. I got the WD 40 trick from a guy who has been in the glass business for many years. WD 40 does dry out as evident if you spray it on a metal part and expect it never to rust you will be surprised when it does rust! Plus the grabbing power of a new rubber strip is quite strong. The WD 40 was used on Sue's S1 Alpine and it is still very secure after 4 years. But to each his own, and glad for the varying opinions from the list. Dave Green From mrtebo at shaw.ca Thu Aug 7 06:34:33 2008 From: mrtebo at shaw.ca (Ron Tebo) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 06:34:33 -0600 Subject: [Alpines] Brake switch and door window questions In-Reply-To: <8CAC654D6055145-E74-3CF3@webmail-nb07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAB74B2FC1A6F0-1548-3608@webmail-nf18.sim.aol.com> <4885D3DB.6080302@shaw.ca> <8CABE884AD5D245-C30-C1E6@webmail-nh08.sysops.aol.com> <488DC253.3060707@shaw.ca> <8CAC654D6055145-E74-3CF3@webmail-nb07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <489AEBD9.5090200@shaw.ca> Rob: Here is a little more on replacing windows. Ron Tebo Subject: RE: window glass replacement Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:55:38 -0700 From: "Jay Laifman" To: alpines at autox.team.net >The passenger side window glass on my series 5 has come loose from the >channel it should sit in. I removed the channel and cleaned up the rust >in it so I could reinstall the glass. The rubber strip on the bottom of >the glass is in good shape but I'm wondering what the clear plastic film >is supposed to do that is peeling off from the rubber. Was it a double >stick tape that kept the rubber from slipping out of the channel? Any >suggestions on how to secure the glass to the channel? First, that little plastic strip is what is left of the large plastic sheet that would hang down from the window when the window was rolled up to keep the water from getting to the door panels. Second, Dave describes putting the glass back in. I would add that I bought replacement rubber strips from SS. I put black weather stripping cement on both sides and it pretty much slid in with no problems - mabye a knock or two with wood as Dave suggests. Jay Subject: Re: window glass replacement Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:49:52 EDT From: Alpdavegre at aol.com To: rnanzig at webtv.net, Alpines at autox.team.net Robert, Don't know about the plastic strip but be sure to get the channel and the glass lined up correctly or you could have interference with the side window guide pieces. I would take the whole thing to a good glass shop. They have some great equipment to do that type of thing and the expertise. If you want to do it your self two people are needed, install the rubber by wraping it over the edge of the glass, spray some silicone or WD 40 on the rubber and channel. Position it, have the glass vertical on a flat surface with a soft towel to cushion the edge of the glass. Take a short piece of 2X4 and a 2 lb hammer start a one end and tap the 2X4 that is on top of the channel piece with the hammer, your helper should be holding the channel and not the glass in case of breakage of the glass could cut you. You should not need heavy swings if you do then take it to a glass shop! Its not worth getting stitches! Dave Green 10 Alps, 1 Tiger(money pit). From ttynan at iol.ie Thu Aug 7 15:18:18 2008 From: ttynan at iol.ie (Tony Tynan) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 23:18:18 +0200 Subject: [Alpines] Brake switch and door window questions References: <8CAB74B2FC1A6F0-1548-3608@webmail-nf18.sim.aol.com><4885D3DB.6080302@shaw.ca><8CABE884AD5D245-C30-C1E6@webmail-nh08.sysops.aol.com><488DC253.3060707@shaw.ca><8CAC654D6055145-E74-3CF3@webmail-nb07.sysops.aol.com> <489AEBD9.5090200@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <006801c8f8d3$1decb860$568dcbc1@gateway2000> Don't know which would grieve me most, the stitches or the loss of my hardtoreplace window. BTW The fornt window of my 1963 S/Minx came away in my hand ie. out of its channel recently when I was assisting a stiff winder. Havent replaced it yet and I've of heard of folks in the past having to first give the metal channel a VERY gentle squeeze before inserion. Probably they were just too mean to buy new rubber (or cut up an old motor tube?????) TT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Tebo" To: Cc: "alpines" Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [Alpines] Brake switch and door window questions > Rob: > in case of breakage of the glass could cut you. You should not need heavy > swings if you do then take it to a glass shop! Its not worth getting > stitches! > > Dave Green From drmayf at mayfco.com Sun Aug 10 20:24:38 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:24:38 -0700 Subject: [Alpines] Bonneville Salt Flats Bound... Message-ID: <489FA2E6.8070105@mayfco.com> Well, it is time for me to fill everybody in on where the Sunbeam is and where it is going. There were many modifications to the car this off season. I added a third rool cage hoop, added tthe lateral head support (now required), dropped th e driver seat dowm 1 3/8 inches, sent my parachute to the manufacturer for an inspection and repair as necessary, ditto the drivers suit jacket (the sleeve some how got burned and had actually been on fire says the manufacturer), fabricated new headers (whew! what a task), changed from twin turbos to one T72, had the headers coated by Caps Bright Hot Coatings (great folk!), remade the rear diagonal link locator for the 4 bar suspension, modified the throttl ebody hat, modified the throttle body spacer to the manifold, purchase two new ear wheels from Diamond Racing Wheels and had the bonneville tires mounted and balanced. Also made a new remote oil filter system using fram HP1 racing oil filter and -10 AN hose and fittings. Added a new water/methanol injection system. Added recording capability for oil pressure, fuel pressure, exhaust back pressure at the turbo to go along with recording the Manifold pressure, which I already had. Rewired the 0 - 300 mph speedo and will calibrate that when I tow to inspection area. I did not go to the chassis dyno this year because it is over in Las Vegas and for the past two years I didn't ge much out of it. About a month ago or maybe a bit more, I fired it all up and for something that had been sitting for quite a while, It started an dran fine. When I buzzed it a bit, 2000 rpm, i tgot enough smoke and fresh oil out the turbo hot side that I decided it was fubared and replaced it with a borrowed T70. Then during a check of the waste gates, I found that one of the internal diaphrams had a hole in it letting the boost presure go from the bottom to th etop and that effectively held both waste gates fully closed. No wonder it wouldn't rev, the exhaust had no place to go except through those very dinky T3 turbine housings (0.63) which equates to a exhaust pipe of about 0.9 inches in diameter. All hat is behind me for now. It's show time! For any of you that may want to wander out to Wendover, UT, we'll be located in the big red 34 ft box trailer with teh spirit of sunbeam logo on the front and sides and my tow truck has "mayf" on the tailgate. The August Speed Week is for sure a specacle and all you motor and gear heads should make that pilgrimage at least once. Right now there are more than 500 vehicles scheduled to run. Inspection starts on Sunday, course opens on Mondy after the mandatory driver's meeting which shul dbe around 10:30 am (Wendover, UT time). we generally do not ry and be the first on the course becaus eI like to watch a couple of cars to see how they are doing on the salt.. We will be at the Wendover Nugget.. we wil lbe monioring or drmayf at yahoo.com email during th etime we are gone. ya'll come on down! mayf From milano164 at comcast.net Tue Aug 12 02:56:33 2008 From: milano164 at comcast.net (Steven silverstein) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 04:56:33 -0400 Subject: [Alpines] Don Sesslar's Tiger at the SCCA Runoffs - YouTube Message-ID: <90F8AF26-2CA2-4BF9-B376-14966593CAA4@comcast.net> Hey, this is unusual.... this Home movie, labeled 1964 Daytona runoffs (incorrectly labeled) Has some decent images of the Sports Car Forum Tiger (around the 1:30 mark and around the 5:40 mark) http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=AsL_W7I5OlA Very unusual to see actual films of the Runoffs like this. Steve Silverstein From JACranwell at aol.com Tue Aug 12 02:58:35 2008 From: JACranwell at aol.com (JACranwell at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 04:58:35 EDT Subject: [Alpines] Channel 4 - UK TV Website Message-ID: See the attached link, where the Alpine is listed as one of the top 100 British cars ever. Personally, I'd have it in the top 10. http://www.channel4.com/4car/gl/gallery/feature/24020/17 Julian. From jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 15 01:15:52 2008 From: jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk (Jeff Howarth) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 08:15:52 +0100 Subject: [Alpines] Venezia ADVERT Message-ID: All, I saw this advert while sunbeam browsing and thought someone might be interested: http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-page.php/carno/35872 I dont know anything about it other than whats on the advert. regards -- Jeff Howarth From drmayf at mayfco.com Sat Aug 16 18:10:05 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 17:10:05 -0700 Subject: [Alpines] Headed out in the morning... Message-ID: <48A76C5D.2070103@mayfco.com> Well, folk, the wife and I will be headed out bright and early (yeah, right) at approximaely 4 am headed to the great white salt dyno. I hope we have everything, and evertyhing is ready to go. We will not monitor the drmayf at mayfco.com email but will check my yahoo account daily, hopefully...that is drmayf at yahoo.com should any of you feel the need to get in touch with me. mayf From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Mon Aug 18 19:24:40 2008 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:24:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Alpines] SAN DIEGO BRITISH CAR DAY - Sunday, October 5, 2008 Message-ID: <1517616.1219109080251.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> 29th ANNUAL SAN DIEGO BRITISH CAR DAY Sunday, October 5, 2008 San Diego British Car Day Website at: www.sandiegobritishcarday.org Twenty eight years ago, a hearty band of British car enthusiasts got together over picnics at a park to view each othersb cars, and enjoy each othersb friendship. This year, we begin to return to that heritage. Over the past 28 years the event has grown considerably and now attracts participants from all over California and beyond. We are proud that this event has become one of the premier British car shows in California. In the past few years, we have incurred considerable additional expenses relating to, among other things, permits and insurance. Thus, starting this year, we have made some changes in keeping with the original spirit of the event. For instance, there will be no program or raffle at this yearbs show. Also, due to the increased expenses, we have had to increase our registration fees by $5.00. We continue to provide a wonderful experience, including a variety of vendors, Hoggbs Beach BBQ, the very popular Cameron Highlander Bagpipers and over 400 diverse English cars for your viewing pleasure. The San Diego British Car Club Council is a California nonprofit mutual benefit corporation. OCTOBER 5th EVENT SCHEDULE 7:30 b 10:00 Registration -- Park in your Marque area as directed/signed 10:00 b 3:00 Cars on display 11:30 b 12:00 Judging for best b Classic Elegantb English picnic 12:00 Ballots must be presented to the Club ballot boxes for cars of choice. Clubs count the ballots and turn in at the Judging boothbb on the hillb by the Minis 12:00 b 2:00 Picnic or Lunch at your leisure . . . and please pick up your trash! 12:30 Ballots MUST be turned into the Judging booth 2:00 Awards presentation 3:00 to ??? Enjoy the rest of the day . . . exit carefully please ADDITIONAL INFORMATION On the above event, or any particular Club or marque in attendance today b most have Web pages, and can be linked by going to the San Diego British Car Day Website at: www.sandiegobritishcarday.org or by calling the information line: 760-746-1458 Pre-Registration Fee: $20.00 per car Make Check Payable to: BCCC MAIL BY SEPT. 12th to: San Diego British Car Club Council P. O. Box 710131 San Diego, CA 92171-0131 QUESTIONS? Please call San Diego British Car Day Information Line: 760 - 746 - 1458 www.sandiegobritishcarday.org Thank you! From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Mon Aug 18 19:58:18 2008 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Alpines] Correct info - SAN DIEGO BRITISH CAR DAY - Sunday, October 5, 2008 Message-ID: <3012860.1219111098208.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Dear Folks, Sorry but the recent publication of the info about the San Diego British Car Meet was a confused communication that is totally wrong - Hope you don't mind deleting the first one I sent and pay attention to this one. Sorry about the confusion - thanks for your understanding ... Rick Feibusch British Car Network - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 29th San Diego British Car Day and Picnic Admiral Baker Field, San Diego, CA Sunday, October 5, 2008 San Diego British Car Day Website at: www.sandiegobritishcarday.org Twenty-nine years ago, a hearty band of British car enthusiasts got together over picnics at a park to view each otherbs cars, and enjoy each otherbs friendship. This year, we return to that heritage. Over the past 29 years the event has grown considerably and now attracts participants from all over California and beyond. We are proud that this event has become one of the premier British car shows in California. In the past few years, we have incurred considerable additional expenses relating to, among other things, forming a corporation, and insurance. Thus, we have made some changes in keeping with the original spirit of the event. For instance, there will be no vendors, program or raffle at this yearbs show. We continue to provide a wonderful experience, the very popular Cameron Highlander Bagpipers and over 400 diverse English cars for your viewing pleasure. Have a Great Day!! Pre-Registration Fee: $20.00 per car Make Check Payable to: BCCC MAIL BY SEPT. 12th to: San Diego British Car Club Council P. O. Box 710131 San Diego, CA 92171-0131 QUESTIONS? Please call San Diego British Car Day Information Line: 760 - 746 - 1458 www.sandiegobritishcarday.org Thank you! From parlanti at comcast.net Mon Aug 25 19:11:59 2008 From: parlanti at comcast.net (Joe Parlanti) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:11:59 -0400 Subject: [Alpines] Tigers East / Alpines East United XXVIII Message-ID: <01ff01c90718$be33b8c0$3a9b2a40$@net> Alpine and Tiger Enthusiasts, I thought I'd send an invitation to the list regarding the Tigers East/Alpines East United XXVIII in the Washington Capital Area. It will take place at the Bolger Center, an historic, large, and gracious hotel and convention center in suburban Potomac, MD, about 20 miles from the U.S. Capitol, October 11-13, 2008 (http://bolgercenter.dolce.com/). Members each $100, non-members $115, children 10 and under $25, Children 11-18, $50. Ample parking and security for our cars. The hotel has given us a special rate of $124/night for a double room, breakfast included. Suite with extra beds and living room $154/night. The meet will include a concours for various classes of Rootes Group vehicles, an autocross, and a 2-3 hour tour in your cars of the area, including a ferry crossing to the Smithsonian Air and Space Center in Virginia. There will be shuttle buses to the Washington Capitol area and other area sites (great for kids). Other activities will include tech sessions, additional tours of the area, club business meetings, and elections, a Saturday BBQ, Sunday night banquet, hospitality and parts rooms, and lots of chances to exchange ideas and meet your fellow club members, owners, and their families. For further information see the information / registration flyer at (http://teae.org/united28.html), or call Joe Parlanti 240-632-0649 parlanti at comcast.net Hope to see you here in October, JVP Joseph V. Parlanti 1966 Sunbeam Tiger 1959 Abarth Zagato 750GT 2000 BMW M Roadster 16048 Copen Meadow Dr. North Potomac, Md. 20878 Cell - 301-461-0626 Email - Parlanti at comcast.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image001.gif] From drmayf at mayfco.com Sat Aug 30 18:31:39 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:31:39 -0700 Subject: [Alpines] Off Topic... Laptop Issue, my data logger.. Message-ID: <48B9E66B.20407@mayfco.com> Folks, I use a Panasonic CF-27 Toughbook as my tuner and data logger laptop. On the salt during the first run, I did something in the initial setup to start the data logging that I had not done before and it pretty much killed something. I started the laptop's data logging program and verified that it was logging data. I closed it up and latched it. I have the laptop set up so that no action is taken when the screen is closed like this and have used it this way many times. I use a bungee cord to hold it secure in it's cradle. This time, I left the mouse connected and slipped it under the bungee cord to hold it in place. That was the wrong thing to do. Apparently the bungee "clicked or half clicked" one or both of the mouse buttons and held it in that condition. After the run, I went to look for data and there was none. But the mouse would not work. I tried another mouse and when the laptop boots up and gets to the windows screen, if the mouse is touched the cursor goes berserk. The cursor flies all over the screen opening menus, programs, shutting them down closing things opening things and in general just making a mess. Curiously though, if I leave the mouse unplugged, it is a PS2 unit, and plug it in after the boot up, it works just fine. This is pretty annoying, lol. I have unloaded the mouse driver and let the computer reload it. I have loaded MS Intellipoint 6.1 Mouse program with no change in results. Has anyone experienced anything like this? Any one have any other ideas on what might be wrong? Or how to repair? While I don't know exactly how it works, I suspect the interrupt handler for the mouse is befarkled somehow. The laptop has a touch pad which works perfectly fine... Could a small elecronic component failure do this? Alas, I am lost in these matters.. The mouse that was attached was a ball type and the current one is a optical..all with the same indications. Even tried a USB mouse with a PS2 adapter...same thing. Also tried the USB mouse directly with the same results... Oops, I am using Win XP PRO, SP2. forgot to add that if it is important. mayf, anxiousl;y awaiting