Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks <[email-masked]> <zmagnette.autox.team.net>

From: Allen Bachelder <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 11:53:58 -0500

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I've always just used the item #54 from the Moss catalog: =
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#top =
 Are these from APT or Rimmer better?

Always anxious to learn...
Allen
****************************************************************
Allen & Florrie Bachelder       =3Diii=3D<
Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs
'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT
North Street, MI 48049, USA
http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs
****************************************************************

On Nov 13, 2013, at 4:10 AM, [email-masked] wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>=20
> I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub stacks and I've tried emailing =
Steve Ash several times to see if he would make some more, but I haven't =
got an answer from him.
>=20
> So... from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two types =
available at a reasonable cost:
> $32.50 ea - =
http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20S=
U%20HS4.aspx
> $57 pair - http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT
>=20
> I've excluded the K&N ones as they are very rough, by all accounts.
> Are there any others that people would recommend?
>=20
> They're going to fit inside K&N filters that are 2 1/8" thick.
>=20
> regards,
> --=20
> Robert (in NZ)
> _______________________________________________
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>=20
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>=20

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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I've =
always just used the item #54 from the Moss catalog: <a =
href=3D"http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28=
996#top">http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D2=
8996#top</a> &nbsp;Are these from APT or Rimmer =
better?<div><br></div><div>Always anxious to =
learn...</div><div>Allen<br><div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
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-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
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rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
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-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
"><b><i>****************************************************************</=
i></b></span><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
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after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-variant: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
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style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-variant: normal; =
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
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after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-variant: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; =
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; font-size: 12px; "><b><i>Allen &amp; Florrie =
Bachelder &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =3Diii=3D&lt;<br>Spring Creek Home for =
Wayward MGs</i></b></div><div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; font-size: 12px; "><b><i>'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 =
B/GT</i></b></div><div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
font-size: 12px; "><b><i>North Street, MI 48049, =
USA</i></b></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></spa=
n></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div><=
/span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></d=
iv></span></div></span></div></span><b><i><span class=3D"Apple-style-span"=
 style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><a =
href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs">http://www.mgexperien=
ce.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; =
font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
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0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
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normal; font-weight: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); word-wrap: break-word; =
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"><b><i><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; font-size: 12px; =
">****************************************************************</span><=
/i></b></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></=
div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></spa=
n></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div><=
/span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></s=
pan></div></span></span>
</div>

<br><div><div>On Nov 13, 2013, at 4:10 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>Hi everyone,<br><br>I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 =
stub stacks and I've tried emailing Steve Ash several times to see if he =
would make some more, but I haven't got an answer from him.<br><br>So... =
from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two types =
available at a reasonable cost:<br>$32.50 ea - <a =
href=3D"http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20S=
tack%20SU%20HS4.aspx">http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Al=
loy%20Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx</a><br>$57 pair - <a =
href=3D"http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT">http://www.rimmerbr=
os.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT</a><br><br>I've excluded the K&amp;N ones as =
they are very rough, by all accounts.<br>Are there any others that =
people would recommend?<br><br>They're going to fit inside K&amp;N =
filters that are 2 1/8" thick.<br><br>regards,<br>-- <br>Robert (in =
NZ)<br>_______________________________________________<br>Zmagnette =
mailing list<br><br>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</=
a><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>Fo=
rums: <a =
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bscribe/Manage: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=
et">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]</=
a><br><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

--===============0574788004==--

---

From: "Wayne & Isabel Hardy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 10:55:43 -0600

I have those from APT in both ZB and MGB cleaners for the SUs. Couldn't hurt 
and APT has testing to show that they actually flow more air smoothly than 
just butting up against the flat face inside of the air filter back plate. 
Anything from APT is going to be first class product.

Wombat

-----Original Message----- 
From: [email-masked]
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 3:10 AM
To: magnette
Subject: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

Hi everyone,

I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub stacks and I've tried emailing
Steve Ash several times to see if he would make some more, but I haven't
got an answer from him.

So... from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two types
available at a reasonable cost:
$32.50 ea -
http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx
$57 pair - http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT

regards,
-- 
Robert (in NZ)

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]

---

From: Richard Greenberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 10:33:34 -0700

--===============2018376323==

--Apple-Mail-2-182405454

What is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that lies closer to =
the engine than a regular pancake filter?

>>=20
>> So... from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail-2-182405454

-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">What =
is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that lies closer to the =
engine than a regular pancake filter?<div><br><div><div>On Nov 13, 2013, =
at 9:53 AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I've always just used the item =
#54 from the Moss catalog: <a =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: =
separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =

a><br><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>_______________________=
________________________<br>Zmagnette mailing list<br><br>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=
ona.edu">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=
zona.edu</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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---

From: "Wayne & Isabel Hardy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 12:04:42 -0600

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Properly shaped inlet pipes smooth out the flow and encourage increased =
flow of air into the carb mouth. More air means you can run richer and =
that is more fuel air mix which is more bang in the motor. The APT =
designed ones work, (according to flow meters) and increase air flow =
into the inlet hole. Smooth tapered inlets are the way to go.Take it =
from someone who spent 20 years measuring flows of gases through a pipe =
for a living.

Wombat

From: Richard Greenberg=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:33 AM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America=20
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

What is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that lies closer to =
the engine than a regular pancake filter?=20

  I've always just used the item #54 from the Moss catalog: =
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#top=
  Are these from APT or Rimmer better?=20

  ****************************************************************=20
  Allen & Florrie Bachelder       =3Diii=3D<
  Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs
  '57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT
  North Street, MI 48049, USA
  http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs=20
  ****************************************************************

    Hi everyone,

    I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub stacks and I've tried =
emailing Steve Ash several times to see if he would make some more, but =
I haven't got an answer from him.

    So... from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two =
types available at a reasonable cost:
    $32.50 ea - =
http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20=
SU%20HS4.aspx
    $57 pair - http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT

    regards,
    --=20
    Robert (in NZ)

  Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
  Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
  Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
  Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
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------=_NextPart_000_01EE_01CEE068.8949AA50
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"=20
dir=3Dltr>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Properly shaped inlet pipes smooth out the flow and =
encourage=20
increased flow of air into the carb mouth. More air means you can run =
richer and=20
that is more fuel air mix which is more bang in the motor. The APT =
designed ones=20
work, (according to flow meters) and increase air flow into the inlet =
hole.=20
Smooth tapered inlets are the way to go.Take it from someone who spent =
20 years=20
measuring flows of gases through a pipe for a living.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Wombat</FONT></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: =
inline">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Richard Greenberg</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:33 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">List for the Z Magnette Group - =
North=20
America</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: =
inline">What=20
is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that lies closer to the =
engine than=20
a regular pancake filter?=20
<DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:</DIV><BR=20
class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space">I've=20
  always just used the item #54 from the Moss catalog: <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D2=
8996#top">http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D=
28996#top</A>&nbsp;=20
  Are these from APT or Rimmer better?=20
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Always anxious to learn...</DIV>
  <DIV>Allen<BR>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium helvetica; =
ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium helvetica; =
ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium helvetica; =
ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium helvetica; =
ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
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0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium helvetica; =
ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
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0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12px"><B><I>*************************************************************=
***</I></B></SPAN><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium helvetica; =
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0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">=20

  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; FONT-VARIANT: normal; WHITE-SPACE: =
normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: =
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  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-VARIANT: normal; WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: =
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2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
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0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-VARIANT: normal; WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: =
separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: =
2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
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0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
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  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-VARIANT: normal; WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: =
separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: =
2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-VARIANT: normal; WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: =
separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: =
2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: =
helvetica; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><B><I>Allen=20
  &amp; Florrie Bachelder&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =3Diii=3D&lt;<BR>Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs</I></B></DIV>
  <DIV=20
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helvetica; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><B><I>'57=20
  ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</I></B></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: =
helvetica; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><B><I>North=20
  Street, MI 48049,=20
  =
USA</I></B></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SP=
AN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV=
></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN>=
</DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN><B><I><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px"><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs">http://www.mgexperie=
nce.net/member/bachldrs</A></SPAN></I></B><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; FONT-VARIANT: normal; WHITE-SPACE: =
normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: =
0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; =
TEXT-INDENT: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">=20

  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; FONT-VARIANT: normal; WHITE-SPACE: =
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0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; =
TEXT-INDENT: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
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  class=3DApple-style-span=20
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  <DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-VARIANT: normal; WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: =
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
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  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
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  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
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  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-VARIANT: normal; WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: =
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0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-VARIANT: normal; WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: =
separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: =
2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-VARIANT: normal; WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: =
separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: =
2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-VARIANT: normal; WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: =
separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: =
2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: =
rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><B><I><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; =
FONT-STYLE: =
normal">****************************************************************<=
/SPAN></I></B></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV><=
/SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></=
DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SP=
AN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV=
></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>On Nov 13, 2013, at 4:10 AM, <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A>=20
  wrote:</DIV><BR class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <DIV>Hi everyone,<BR><BR>I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub =
stacks and=20
    I've tried emailing Steve Ash several times to see if he would make =
some=20
    more, but I haven't got an answer from him.<BR><BR>So... from a =
light scour=20
    of the internet there appears to be two types available at a =
reasonable=20
    cost:<BR>$32.50 ea - <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20=
Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx">http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20=
Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx</A><BR>$57=20
    pair - <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT">http://www.rimmerb=
ros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT</A><BR><BR>I've=20
    excluded the K&amp;N ones as they are very rough, by all =
accounts.<BR>Are=20
    there any others that people would recommend?<BR><BR>They're going =
to fit=20
    inside K&amp;N filters that are 2 1/8" thick.<BR><BR>regards,<BR>--=20
    <BR>Robert (in=20
    NZ)<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Zmagnette =
mailing=20
    list<BR><BR>Donate: <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/A><BR>Archive:=20
    <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</A><BR>F=
orums:=20
    <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</A><BR>Uns=
ubscribe/Manage:=20
    <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/bachldrs@comcast.=
net">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=
</A><BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
  =
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV>____________________________________________=
___<BR>Zmagnette=20
  mailing list<BR><BR>Donate: <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/A><BR>Archive:=20
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href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</A><BR>F=
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  =
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zona.edu">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=
rizona.edu</A><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
_______________________________________________<BR>Zmagnette mailing=20
list<BR><BR>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<BR>Archive:=20
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From: Kelvin Dodd <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 10:22:04 -0800

--===============0434910084==
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	boundary="_000_4D4FABA15328FC42B1AA0DEE4673548C0188BE75237BDREX04datac_"

--_000_4D4FABA15328FC42B1AA0DEE4673548C0188BE75237BDREX04datac_
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Richard.

A stub stack is a short, usually cast aluminium piece that typically fits i=
nside a pancake style filter assembly. It has a radiused edge and smooths t=
he flow into the carburetor.

David Vizard did a lot of work on a flow bench back in the 70s and determin=
ed that the turbulence caused by the flat surface of such filters bolted di=
rectly to the carburetor could be reduced by installing such a device.

The MGB original air filters incorporate a similar design with an alloy ada=
pter with radiused edges.

Snub stacks are expensive, so I'd only use them for racing or other perform=
ance use. Moss does carry an HIF44/6 snub stack for use with the MG superch=
arger kit.

http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D111408

I run a couple of snub stacks on a Weber 45 DCOE in my race car, again it's=
 a lot of cash for a minor improvement.

Kelvin.

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]=
.net] On Behalf Of Richard Greenberg
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 9:34 AM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

What is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that lies closer to the e=
ngine than a regular pancake filter?

--_000_4D4FABA15328FC42B1AA0DEE4673548C0188BE75237BDREX04datac_
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr=
osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:=
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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Richard. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibr=
i","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A stub stack is a short, usually cast alumin=
ium piece that typically fits inside a pancake style filter assembly. It ha=
s a radiused edge and smooths the flow into the carburetor. <o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:#1F497D'>David Vizard did a lot of work on a flow bench back in the =
70s and determined that the turbulence caused by the flat surface of such f=
ilters bolted directly to the carburetor could be reduced by installing suc=
h a device. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The MGB original air filters inc=
orporate a similar design with an alloy adapter with radiused edges. <o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif";color:#1F497D'>Snub stacks are expensive, so I&#8217;d only use t=
hem for racing or other performance use. Moss does carry an HIF44/6 snub st=
ack for use with the MG supercharger kit. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a=
 href=3D"http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D11=
1408">http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D11140=
8</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I run a couple of snub stacks on a Webe=
r 45 DCOE in my race car, again it&#8217;s a lot of cash for a minor improv=
ement.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Kelvin. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div=
 style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in =
0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"T=
ahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> [email-masked] [mailto:zmag=
[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Richard Greenberg<br><b>S=
ent:</b> Wednesday, November 13, 2013 9:34 AM<br><b>To:</b> List for the Z =
Magnette Group - North America<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stac=
ks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal>What is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter t=
hat lies closer to the engine than a regular pancake filter?<o:p></o:p></p>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al>On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div>=
</div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></body></html>=

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From: Rodger Shaver <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 14:49:07 -0500 (EST)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--===============0336251189==
 boundary="--------MB_8D0AEC08C5E019F_C38_30D41_webmail-m247.sysops.aol.com"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----------MB_8D0AEC08C5E019F_C38_30D41_webmail-m247.sysops.aol.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am like Allen, using the MGB type "back plate".  I use a 2" K&N filter on=
 the rim, easy hose clamp-style on and off as needed.  The back plate can b=
e drilled to use an Allen head screw to attach so the surface is smooth. Th=
is was described on the MGB experience several years back by the Acme Speed=
 shop guy. =20

-----Original Message-----
From: Allen Bachelder <[email-masked]>
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America <[email-masked]=
Sent: Wed, Nov 13, 2013 10:21 am
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

I've always just used the item #54 from the Moss catalog: http://www.mossmo=
tors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#top  Are these from AP=
T or Rimmer better?

Hi everyone,

I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub stacks and I've tried emailing Steve=
 Ash several times to see if he would make some more, but I haven't got an =
answer from him.

So... from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two types avai=
lable at a reasonable cost:
$32.50 ea - http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%=
20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx
$57 pair - http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT

regards,
--=20
Robert (in NZ)

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

=20

----------MB_8D0AEC08C5E019F_C38_30D41_webmail-m247.sysops.aol.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<font color=3D'black' size=3D'3' face=3D'Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" style=3D"background-color:=
 transparent;">I am like Allen, using the MGB type "back plate".&nbsp; I us=
e a 2" K&amp;N filter on the rim, easy&nbsp;hose clamp-style&nbsp;on and of=
f as needed.&nbsp; The back plate can be drilled to use an Allen head screw=
 to attach so the surface is smooth. This was described on the MGB experien=
ce several years back by the Acme Speed shop guy.&nbsp; </font></div>

<div></div>

<div></div>

<div style=3D"color: black; font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt;"=
>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Allen Bachelder &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America &lt;[email-masked].=
net&gt;<br>
Sent: Wed, Nov 13, 2013 10:21 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_2_ce8a8088-ade6-45ab-ae55-ad8f0fca8cec">

<div class=3D"aolReplacedBody" style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-=
nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">I've always just =
used the item #54 from the Moss catalog: <a href=3D"http://www.mossmotors.c=
om/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#top" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#top</a> &n=
bsp;Are these from APT or Rimmer better?
<div><br>
</div>

<div>Always anxious to learn...</div>

<div>Allen<br>

<div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font:/normal Helvetica; color: rg=
b(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal;=
 word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans=
: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vert=
ical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-s=
ize-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class=3D"Apple-sty=
le-span" style=3D"font:/normal Helvetica; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transfo=
rm: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; whit=
e-space: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-=
border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webk=
it-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webki=
t-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
<div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-=
line-break: after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"f=
ont:/normal Helvetica; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; text-inde=
nt: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; bo=
rder-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-s=
pacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations=
-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width=
: 0px;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font:/normal Helvetica; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing:=
 normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate;=
 orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-bor=
der-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webki=
t-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
<div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-=
line-break: after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"f=
ont:/normal Helvetica; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; text-inde=
nt: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; bo=
rder-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-s=
pacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations=
-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width=
: 0px;">
<div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-=
line-break: after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"f=
ont-size: 12px;"><b><i>****************************************************=
************</i></b></span><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font:/=
normal Helvetica; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0=
px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-=
collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacin=
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cing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-i=
n-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
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line-break: after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"t=
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cing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-i=
n-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
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line-break: after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"t=
ext-transform: none; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing:=
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er-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spa=
cing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-i=
n-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-=
line-break: after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"t=
ext-transform: none; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing:=
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er-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spa=
cing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-i=
n-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;=
 font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; -ms-word-wrap: break-word; -webki=
t-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><b><i>Allen &am=
p; Florrie Bachelder &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =3Diii=3D&lt;<br>
Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs</i></b></div>

<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;=
 font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; -ms-word-wrap: break-word; -webki=
t-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><b><i>'57 ZB, '=
65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</i></b></div>

<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;=
 font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; -ms-word-wrap: break-word; -webki=
t-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><b><i>North Str=
eet, MI 48049, USA</i></b></div>
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</span><b><i><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;"><a=
 href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs" target=3D"_blank">htt=
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ndent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Helvetica; font-variant: n=
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rphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-borde=
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cing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-i=
n-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-=
line-break: after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"t=
ext-transform: none; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing:=
 normal; font-variant: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; bord=
er-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spa=
cing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-i=
n-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;=
 -ms-word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: a=
fter-white-space;"><b><i><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-fam=
ily: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">=
****************************************************************</span></i>=
</b></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></span></div>
</span></span>
</div>

<br>

<div>
<div>On Nov 13, 2013, at 4:10 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
">[email-masked]</a> wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>Hi everyone,<br>
<br>
I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub stacks and I've tried emailing Steve=
 Ash several times to see if he would make some more, but I haven't got an =
answer from him.<br>
<br>
So... from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two types avai=
lable at a reasonable cost:<br>
$32.50 ea - <a href=3D"http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Al=
loy%20Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx" target=3D"_blank">http://www.aptfast.co=
m/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx</a><br>
$57 pair - <a href=3D"http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT</a><br>
<br>
I've excluded the K&amp;N ones as they are very rough, by all accounts.<br>
Are there any others that people would recommend?<br>
<br>
They're going to fit inside K&amp;N filters that are 2 1/8" thick.<br>
<br>
regards,<br>
-- <br>
Robert (in NZ)<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Zmagnette mailing list<br>
<br>
//www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ww.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.team.net/forums</a><br>
tte/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/o=
ptions/zmagnette/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
<br>
</div>
</div>

</div>

<div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_3_ce8a8088-ade6-45ab-ae55-ad8f0fca8cec" style=3D"marg=
in: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Ser=
if; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">

<pre style=3D"font-size: 9pt;"><tt>________________________________________=
_______
Zmagnette mailing list

//www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ww.team.net/archive</a>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.team.net/forums</a>
tte/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/opti=
ons/zmagnette/[email-masked]</a>

</tt></pre>
</div>
 <!-- end of AOLMsgPart_3_ce8a8088-ade6-45ab-ae55-ad8f0fca8cec -->

</div>
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---

From: "Steve Kirby" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 13:35:25 -0800

--===============1473198881==
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That's a lot of Allens . . .=20

#2SteveK
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Rodger Shaver=20
  To: [email-masked]=20
  Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:49 AM
  Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

  I am like Allen, using the MGB type "back plate".  I use a 2" K&N =
filter on the rim, easy hose clamp-style on and off as needed.  The back =
plate can be drilled to use an Allen head screw to attach so the surface =
is smooth. This was described on the MGB experience several years back =
by the Acme Speed shop guy. =20
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Allen Bachelder <[email-masked]>
  To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America =
<[email-masked]>
  Sent: Wed, Nov 13, 2013 10:21 am
  Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

    Hi everyone,

    regards,
    --=20
    Robert (in NZ)

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]

-----

  Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
  Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
  Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
  Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]

------=_NextPart_000_0024_01CEE075.35C2FE10
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23532">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>That's a lot of Allens . . . </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>#2SteveK</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[email-masked] href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Rodger =
Shaver</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 13, =
2013 11:49=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub=20
stacks</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT color=3Dblack size=3D3 face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif">
  <DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"=20
  face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am like Allen, using the MGB =
type "back=20
  plate".&nbsp; I use a 2" K&amp;N filter on the rim, easy&nbsp;hose=20
  clamp-style&nbsp;on and off as needed.&nbsp; The back plate can be =
drilled to=20
  use an Allen head screw to attach so the surface is smooth. This was =
described=20
  on the MGB experience several years back by the Acme Speed shop =
guy.&nbsp;=20
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR>From: Allen Bachelder =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<BR>To: List=20
  for the Z Magnette Group - North America=20
  &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<BR>Sent: Wed, Nov 13, 2013 10:21=20
  am<BR>Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks<BR><BR>
  <DIV id=3DAOLMsgPart_2_ce8a8088-ade6-45ab-ae55-ad8f0fca8cec>
  <DIV style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"=20
  class=3DaolReplacedBody>I've always just used the item #54 from the =
Moss=20
  catalog: <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D2=
8996#top"=20
  =
target=3D_blank>http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateInd=
exID=3D28996#top</A>=20
  &nbsp;Are these from APT or Rimmer better?=20
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Always anxious to learn...</DIV>
  <DIV>Allen<BR>
  <DIV><SPAN=20
  style=3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; =
LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"=20
  class=3DApple-style-span><SPAN=20
  style=3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; =
LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"=20
  class=3DApple-style-span>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; =
LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"=20
  class=3DApple-style-span><SPAN=20
  style=3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; =
LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"=20
  class=3DApple-style-span>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; =
LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"=20
  class=3DApple-style-span>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px"=20
  =
class=3DApple-style-span><B><I>******************************************=
**********************</I></B></SPAN><SPAN=20
  style=3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; =
LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"=20
  class=3DApple-style-span>=20
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: =
normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"=20
  class=3DApple-style-span>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: =
normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"=20
  class=3DApple-style-span>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
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normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
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-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"=20
  class=3DApple-style-span>
  <DIV><SPAN=20
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0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
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  class=3DApple-style-span>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
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  class=3DApple-style-span>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
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  class=3DApple-style-span>
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  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
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WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: =
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  class=3DApple-style-span>
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  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
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  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
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WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: =
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  class=3DApple-style-span>
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  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
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  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"=20
  class=3DApple-style-span>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
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0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
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  class=3DApple-style-span>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"=20
  class=3DApple-style-span>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
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0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"=20
  class=3DApple-style-span>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
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-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"=20
  class=3DApple-style-span>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
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  class=3DApple-style-span>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
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space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><B><I>Allen=20
  &amp; Florrie Bachelder &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =3Diii=3D&lt;<BR>Spring =
Creek Home=20
  for Wayward MGs</I></B></DIV>
  <DIV=20
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  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; COLOR: =
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space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><B><I>North=20
  Street, MI 48049,=20
  =
USA</I></B></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SP=
AN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV=
</DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN><B><I><SPAN=20
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  =
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></B><SPAN=20
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  style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-WEIGHT: normal; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space"><B><I><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 12px; =
FONT-WEIGHT: normal"=20
  =
class=3DApple-style-span>************************************************=
****************</SPAN></I></B></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></D=
IV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPA=
N></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV>=
</SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN><=
/DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV><BR>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>On Nov 13, 2013, at 4:10 AM, <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A>=20
  wrote:</DIV><BR class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <DIV>Hi everyone,<BR><BR>I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub =
stacks and=20
    I've tried emailing Steve Ash several times to see if he would make =
some=20
    more, but I haven't got an answer from him.<BR><BR>So... from a =
light scour=20
    of the internet there appears to be two types available at a =
reasonable=20
    cost:<BR>$32.50 ea - <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20=
Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx"=20
    =
target=3D_blank>http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%2=
0Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx</A><BR>$57=20
    pair - <A href=3D"http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT"=20
    =
target=3D_blank>http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT</A><BR><BR>=
I've=20
    excluded the K&amp;N ones as they are very rough, by all =
accounts.<BR>Are=20
    there any others that people would recommend?<BR><BR>They're going =
to fit=20
    inside K&amp;N filters that are 2 1/8" thick.<BR><BR>regards,<BR>--=20
    <BR>Robert (in=20
    NZ)<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Zmagnette =
mailing=20
    list<BR><BR>Donate: <A href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"=20
    target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/donate.html</A><BR>Archive: <A=20
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    target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/archive</A><BR>Forums: <A=20
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    =
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    =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/bachldrs@comcast.=
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    =
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comcast.net</A><BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); MARGIN: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: =
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  id=3DAOLMsgPart_3_ce8a8088-ade6-45ab-ae55-ad8f0fca8cec><PRE =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
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Zmagnette mailing list

target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/donate.html</A>
Archive: <A href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" =
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target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/forums</A>
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=
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</TT></PRE></DIV><!-- end of =
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  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Zmagnette =
mailing=20
  list<BR><BR>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<BR>Archive:=20
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From: "John Park" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 19:33:58 -0500

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Depending on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a bit of a
ram effect which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as in longer
runners means more torque while shorter ones mean more power.  Not lots, but
it all contributes to a freer flowing intake which helps your freer flowing
exhaust to make a bit more power/torque and slightly better fuel economy.
You note vintage racers usually have anywhere from2.5 to 6 inch stacks. Some
with a stocking for a coarse filter, most just hoping nothing of consequence
enters the throat. I have a set of 2.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inch K&N's on
my MGB and they seem to help. Just the ho hum stock setup on my Magnette.

From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Richard Greenberg
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:34 PM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

What is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that lies closer to the
engine than a regular pancake filter?

I've always just used the item #54 from the Moss catalog:
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=28996#top  Are
these from APT or Rimmer better?

Allen

Allen & Florrie Bachelder       =iii=<
Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs

On Nov 13, 2013, at 4:10 AM, [email-masked]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub stacks and I've tried emailing Steve
Ash several times to see if he would make some more, but I haven't got an
answer from him.

So... from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two types
available at a reasonable cost:
$32.50 ea -
http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20SU%
20HS4.aspx
$57 pair - http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT

regards,

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Depending on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a =
bit of a ram effect which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as =
in longer runners means more torque while shorter ones mean more =
power.&nbsp; Not lots, but it all contributes to a freer flowing intake =
which helps your freer flowing exhaust to make a bit more power/torque =
and slightly better fuel economy.&nbsp; You note vintage racers usually =
have anywhere from2.5 to 6 inch stacks. Some with a stocking for a =
coarse filter, most just hoping nothing of consequence enters the =
throat&#8230; I have a set of 2.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inch =
K&amp;N&#8217;s on my MGB and they seem to help. Just the ho hum stock =
setup on my Magnette.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> =
[email-masked] =
[mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Richard =
Greenberg<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:34 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> List for the Z Magnette Group - North =
America<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub =
stacks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>What is a =
stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that lies closer to the engine =
than a regular pancake filter?<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Nov 13, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I've always just used the item #54 from the Moss =
catalog: <a =
href=3D"http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D2=
8996#top">http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D=
28996#top</a> &nbsp;Are these from APT or Rimmer =
better?<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Always anxious to learn...<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Allen<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>**********=
******************************************************</span></i></b></sp=
an><span class=3Dapple-style-span><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:=
p></span></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><di=
v><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black=
'>Allen &amp; Florrie Bachelder &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
=3Diii=3D&lt;<br>Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs</span></i></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black=
'>'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</span></i></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black=
'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black=
'>North Street, MI 48049, USA</span></i></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black=
'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs">http://www.mgexperie=
nce.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b></span><span =
class=3Dapple-style-span><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><div><div><div><d=
iv><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black=
'>****************************************************************</span>=
</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div=
></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Nov 13, 2013, at 4:10 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi everyone,<br><br>I'd like to get a =
pair of 1.5&quot; H4 stub stacks and I've tried emailing Steve Ash =
several times to see if he would make some more, but I haven't got an =
answer from him.<br><br>So... from a light scour of the internet there =
appears to be two types available at a reasonable cost:<br>$32.50 ea - =
<a =
href=3D"http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20=
Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx">http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20=
Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx</a><br>$57 pair - <a =
href=3D"http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT">http://www.rimmerb=
ros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT</a><br><br>I've excluded the K&amp;N ones as =
they are very rough, by all accounts.<br>Are there any others that =
people would recommend?<br><br>They're going to fit inside K&amp;N =
filters that are 2 1/8&quot; thick.<br><br>regards,<br>-- <br>Robert (in =
NZ)<br>_______________________________________________<br>Zmagnette =
mailing list<br><br>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/a><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>F=
orums: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>Uns=
ubscribe/Manage: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/bachldrs@comcast.=
net">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=
</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________________________________=
_____<br>Zmagnette mailing list<br><br>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/a><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>F=
orums: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>Uns=
ubscribe/Manage: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=
zona.edu">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=
rizona.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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---

From: Allen Bachelder <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 23:21:54 -0500

--===============0606623159==

--Apple-Mail-36-307705694
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=windows-1252

I'm cautiously venturing beyond my paygrade here, but are we not talking =
about the Bernoulli Principle: stating that as air enters a conical tube =
the air pressure is maximized, but as the tube diameter conically =
diminishes, air pressure decreases as air speed increases inside the =
carb.  Without a conical stub stack, there is no acceleration in the air =
entering the carb inlet.  How much lift would we get from a =
cross-sectionally flat airplane wing-top with a squared-off leading =
edge?

That being said, how can the original Magnette intake plenum perform any =
of this function? Same question for the intake plenums on T-series cars. =
I would think they would be Bernoullian disasters.  Would a Magnette =
engine always run better with stub stacks rather than the original =
plenum?

Curious in Michigan.

(Allen)

On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:33 PM, John Park wrote:

> Depending on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a =
bit of a ram effect which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as =
in longer runners means more torque while shorter ones mean more power.  =
Not lots, but it all contributes to a freer flowing intake which helps =
your freer flowing exhaust to make a bit more power/torque and slightly =
better fuel economy.  You note vintage racers usually have anywhere =
from2.5 to 6 inch stacks. Some with a stocking for a coarse filter, most =
just hoping nothing of consequence enters the throat=85 I have a set of =
2.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inch K&N=92s on my MGB and they seem to =
help. Just the ho hum stock setup on my Magnette.
> =20
> From: [email-masked] =
available at a reasonable cost:
> $32.50 ea =
-http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20=
SU%20HS4.aspx

--Apple-Mail-36-307705694
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=windows-1252

<html><head><base href=3D"x-msg://575/"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: =
after-white-space; ">I'm cautiously venturing beyond my paygrade here, =
but are we not talking about the Bernoulli Principle: stating that as =
air enters a conical tube the air pressure is maximized, but as the tube =
diameter conically diminishes, air pressure decreases as air speed =
increases inside the carb. &nbsp;Without a conical stub stack, there is =
no acceleration in the air entering the carb inlet. &nbsp;How much lift =
would we get from a cross-sectionally flat airplane wing-top with a =
squared-off leading edge?<div><br></div><div>That being said, how can =
the original Magnette intake plenum perform any of this function? Same =
question for the intake plenums on T-series cars. I would think they =
would be Bernoullian disasters. &nbsp;Would a Magnette engine always run =
better with stub stacks rather than the original =
plenum?</div><div><br></div><div>Curious in =
Michigan.</div><div><br></div><div>(Allen)</div><div><div>

<br><div><div>On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:33 PM, John Park wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">Depending on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a =
bit of a ram effect which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as =
in longer runners means more torque while shorter ones mean more =
power.&nbsp; Not lots, but it all contributes to a freer flowing intake =
which helps your freer flowing exhaust to make a bit more power/torque =
and slightly better fuel economy.&nbsp; You note vintage racers usually =
have anywhere from2.5 to 6 inch stacks. Some with a stocking for a =
coarse filter, most just hoping nothing of consequence enters the =
throat=85 I have a set of 2.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inch K&amp;N=92s =
on my MGB and they seem to help. Just the ho hum stock setup on my =
Magnette.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-right-style: =
none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: =
initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; =
border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: =
0in; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: =
0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">[email-masked]</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:zmagnette-bounces@aut=
ox.team.net]<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>On =
Behalf Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Richard =
Greenberg<br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Wednesday, November 13, =
2013 12:34 PM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>List for the Z Magnette =
Group - North America<br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub =
stacks<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: =
0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">What is a stub stack? Would it =
allow for a filter that lies closer to the engine than a regular pancake =
filter?<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:53 =
AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top:=
 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
"><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: =
0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">I've always just used the item =
#54 from the Moss catalog:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28=
996#top" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#to=
p</a><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;Are these =
from APT or Rimmer better?<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Always anxious to =
learn...<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
">Allen<o:p></o:p></div><div><div><div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; =
">****************************************************************</span><=
/i></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font-size: =
13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><=
div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: =
Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; ">Allen &amp; Florrie Bachelder =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =3Diii=3D&lt;<br>Spring Creek Home for Wayward =
MGs</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; color: black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><i><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</span></i></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><i><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">North Street, MI 48049, USA</span></i></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><i><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; "><a =
href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b></span><sp=
an class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><=
div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; =
">****************************************************************</span><=
/span><span style=3D"color: black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; =
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; ">On Nov 13, 2013, at 4:10 AM,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">[email-masked]</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div>=
<div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:=
 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; ">Hi everyone,<br><br>I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub =
stacks and I've tried emailing Steve Ash several times to see if he =
would make some more, but I haven't got an answer from him.<br><br>So... =
from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two types =
available at a reasonable cost:<br>$32.50 ea -<a =
href=3D"http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20S=
tack%20SU%20HS4.aspx" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%2=
0SU%20HS4.aspx</a><br>$57 pair -<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT</a><br><br>I've excluded =
the K&amp;N ones as they are very rough, by all accounts.<br>Are there =
any others that people would recommend?<br><br>They're going to fit =
inside K&amp;N filters that are 2 1/8" thick.<br><br>regards,<br>--<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>Robert (in =
NZ)<br>_______________________________________________<br>Zmagnette =
mailing list<br><br>Donate:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" style=3D"color: blue; =
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">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>Forums:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=
et" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]</a>=
<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; ">_______________________________________________<br>Zmagnette =
mailing list<br><br>Donate:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>Forums:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
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text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
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ona.edu" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=
u</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div>_____________________________________=
__________<br>Zmagnette mailing list<br><br>Donate:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" style=3D"color: blue; =
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">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
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">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>Forums:<span =
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">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
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et" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]</a>=
<br><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-36-307705694--

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---

From: "Wayne & Isabel Hardy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 03:19:22 -0600

--===============1181046193==
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If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for more air to the inlet, =
then more power should always be the result. If more power is =
=93Better=94, then the answer is yes. But you must adjust for more =
airflow to get a more better running motor..ie more air will need more =
fuel too if a result is to be more power. Maybe a new, slightly richer =
needle is the ticket to heaven. I know the K&N filter people caution =
that their filters flow so much more air than the usual paper ones, that =
a richer needle, or jet, or slight enrichment adjustment may be =
desirable for best running.
Of course all this extra air flow is also likely to create more inlet =
roar under acceleration. Is that =93Better=94 or not???
I personally run the MGA cleaner assemblies rather than the Magnette one =
for better access to the carb adjustment screws for keeping up with =
summer 100 degree days now swinging to winter 50 - 60 degree days and =
the resultant changes in idle speeds due to cooler, denser air, and the =
need to richen the mix by about 1/8th of a turn.
MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filter for better engine life in a =
variety of dirty dusty operating situations around the world, and for =
more civilized operation in a quieter manner. Their true race motors ran =
with velocity stacks and no filters usually.

Wombat

From: Allen Bachelder=20
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:21 PM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America=20
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

edge?=20

Curious in Michigan.

(Allen)

      Hi everyone,

      So... from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two =
types available at a reasonable cost:
      $32.50 ea =
-http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%2=
0SU%20HS4.aspx
      $57 pair - http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT

      I've excluded the K&N ones as they are very rough, by all =
accounts.
      Are there any others that people would recommend?

      regards,
      --=20
      Robert (in NZ)

    =20

  =20

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01CEE1B1.7AE1EA50
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML xmlns:o><HEAD><BASE href=3D"x-msg://575/"></HEAD>
<BODY=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"=20
dir=3Dltr>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for more =
air to the=20
inlet, then more power should always be the result. If more power is =
=93Better=94,=20
then the answer is yes. But you must adjust for more airflow to get a =
more=20
better running motor..ie more air will need more fuel too if a result is =
to be=20
more power. Maybe a new, slightly richer needle is the ticket to heaven. =
I know=20
the K&amp;N filter people caution that their filters flow so much more =
air than=20
the usual paper ones, that a richer needle, or jet, or slight enrichment =

adjustment may be desirable for best running.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Of course all this extra air flow is also likely to =
create=20
more inlet roar under acceleration. Is that =93Better=94 or =
not???</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>I personally run the MGA cleaner assemblies rather =
than the=20
Magnette one for better access to the carb adjustment screws for keeping =
up with=20
summer 100 degree days now swinging to winter 50 - 60 degree days and =
the=20
resultant changes in idle speeds due to cooler, denser air, and the need =
to=20
richen the mix by about 1/8th of a turn.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filter for =
better engine=20
life in a variety of dirty dusty operating situations around the world, =
and for=20
more civilized operation in a quieter manner. Their true race motors ran =
with=20
velocity stacks and no filters usually.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Wombat</FONT></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: =
inline">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Allen Bachelder</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:21 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">List for the Z Magnette Group - =
North=20
America</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: =
inline">I'm=20
cautiously venturing beyond my paygrade here, but are we not talking =
about the=20
Bernoulli Principle: stating that as air enters a conical tube the air =
pressure=20
is maximized, but as the tube diameter conically diminishes, air =
pressure=20
decreases as air speed increases inside the carb.&nbsp; Without a =
conical stub=20
stack, there is no acceleration in the air entering the carb =
inlet.&nbsp; How=20
much lift would we get from a cross-sectionally flat airplane wing-top =
with a=20
squared-off leading edge?=20
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>That being said, how can the original Magnette intake plenum =
perform any of=20
this function? Same question for the intake plenums on T-series cars. I =
would=20
think they would be Bernoullian disasters.&nbsp; Would a Magnette engine =
always=20
run better with stub stacks rather than the original plenum?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Curious in Michigan.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>(Allen)</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: =
none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT: medium helvetica; =
ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><SPAN=20
class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: =
none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT: medium helvetica; =
ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: =
none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT: medium helvetica; =
ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><SPAN=20
class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: =
none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT: medium helvetica; =
ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: =
none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT: medium helvetica; =
ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12px"><B><I>*************************************************************=
***</I></B></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: =
none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT: medium helvetica; =
ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">=20

<DIV=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; =
FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; =
&amp; Florrie Bachelder&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
=3Diii=3D&lt;<BR>Spring=20
Creek Home for Wayward MGs</I></B></DIV>
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; =
FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; =
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; =
FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; =

<DIV=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); =
FONT-STYLE: normal; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:33 PM, John Park wrote:</DIV><BR=20
class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium helvetica; =
ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
  <DIV lang=3DEN-US vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue">
  <DIV class=3DWordSection1 style=3D"page: wordsection1">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: =
rgb(31,73,125)">Depending=20
  on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a bit of a ram =
effect=20
  which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as in longer runners =
means=20
  more torque while shorter ones mean more power.&nbsp; Not lots, but it =
all=20
  contributes to a freer flowing intake which helps your freer flowing =
exhaust=20
  to make a bit more power/torque and slightly better fuel =
economy.&nbsp; You=20
  note vintage racers usually have anywhere from2.5 to 6 inch stacks. =
Some with=20
  a stocking for a coarse filter, most just hoping nothing of =
consequence enters=20
  the throat=85 I have a set of 2.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inch =
K&amp;N=92s on my=20
  MGB and they seem to help. Just the ho hum stock setup on my=20
  Magnette.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: =
rgb(31,73,125)"><o:p></o:p></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; BORDER-TOP: rgb(225,225,225) 1pt =
solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; =
BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, =
sans-serif">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif"><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><A=20
  style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">zmagnette-bounces@autox.=
team.net</A><SPAN=20
  =
class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN>[mailto:zmagnette-bounces@auto=
x.team.net]<SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><B>On Behalf Of<SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></B>Richard=20
  Greenberg<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN>Wednesday, November 13, =
2013 12:34=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN>List =
for the Z=20
  Magnette Group - North America<BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub=20
  stacks<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p></o:p>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">What=20
  is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that lies closer to the =
engine=20
  than a regular pancake filter?<o:p></o:p></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p></o:p>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">On=20
  Nov 13, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Allen Bachelder =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt">
    <DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I've=20
    always just used the item #54 from the Moss catalog:<SPAN=20
    class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><A=20
    style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D2=
8996#top">http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D=
28996#top</A><SPAN=20
    class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN> Are these from APT or =
Rimmer=20
    better?<o:p></o:p></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p></o:p>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Always=20
    anxious to learn...<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Allen<o:p></o:p></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
    class=3Dapple-style-span><B><I><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, =
sans-serif">*************************************************************=
***</SPAN></I></B></SPAN><SPAN=20
    class=3Dapple-style-span><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, =
sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><I><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: =
black">Allen=20
    &amp; Florrie Bachelder&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =3Diii=3D&lt;<BR>Spring Creek Home for Wayward =
MGs</SPAN></I></B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: =
black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><I><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: =
black">'57=20
    ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</SPAN></I></B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: =
black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><I><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: =
black">North=20
    Street, MI 48049, USA</SPAN></I></B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: =
black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>=
</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
    class=3Dapple-style-span><B><I><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif"><A=20
    style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs">http://www.mgexperie=
nce.net/member/bachldrs</A></SPAN></I></B></SPAN><SPAN=20
    class=3Dapple-style-span><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
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    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
    class=3Dapple-style-span><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: =
black">****************************************************************</=
SPAN></SPAN><SPAN=20
    style=3D"COLOR: =
black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>=
</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><=
/DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p></o:p>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">On=20
    Nov 13, 2013, at 4:10 AM,<SPAN =
class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><A=20
    style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A><SPAN =

    =
class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN>wrote:<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt">
      <DIV>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt">Hi=20
      everyone,<BR><BR>I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub stacks and =
I've=20
      tried emailing Steve Ash several times to see if he would make =
some more,=20
      but I haven't got an answer from him.<BR><BR>So... from a light =
scour of=20
      the internet there appears to be two types available at a =
reasonable=20
      cost:<BR>$32.50 ea -<A style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: =
underline"=20
      =
href=3D"http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20=
Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx">http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20=
Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx</A><BR>$57=20
      pair -<SPAN class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><A=20
      style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
      =
href=3D"http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT">http://www.rimmerb=
ros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT</A><BR><BR>I've=20
      excluded the K&amp;N ones as they are very rough, by all =
accounts.<BR>Are=20
      there any others that people would recommend?<BR><BR>They're going =
to fit=20
      inside K&amp;N filters that are 2 1/8" =
thick.<BR><BR>regards,<BR>--<SPAN=20
      class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><BR>Robert (in=20
      =
NZ)<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Zmagnette=20
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net">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=
</A><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p></o:p>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
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---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 22:38:09 +1300

The oil bath air filters certainly quieten down inlet roar.
I've read in more than one place that suitable stub stacks quieten 
inlet roar too.

regards,
-- 
Robert

On 15.11.2013 22:19, Wayne & Isabel Hardy wrote:
> Of course all this extra air flow is also likely to create more inlet
> roar under acceleration. Is that “Better” or not???

> MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filter for better engine life in
> a variety of dirty dusty operating situations around the world, and
> for more civilized operation in a quieter manner. Their true race
> motors ran with velocity stacks and no filters usually.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 22:44:01 +1300

The Steve Ash/Gyles MGA stub stacks are very thin and if I could get 
hold of a pair I was curious to see if they could be made to fit inside 
the Magnette intake plenum. I don't suppose they would fit into the air 
intake hole. The aptfast ones might.
Perhaps I could get off my chuff and measure stuff... :-)

regards,
-- 
Robert

On 15.11.2013 17:21, Allen Bachelder wrote:

> That being said, how can the original Magnette intake plenum perform
> any of this function? Same question for the intake plenums on 
> T-series
> cars. I would think they would be Bernoullian disasters. Would a
> Magnette engine always run better with stub stacks rather than the
> original plenum?

---

From: Michael Anderson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 06:58:56 -0800 (PST)

--===============1159565541==

--814484595-572116959-1384527536=:76526
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I respectfully disagree that more air =3D more noise by default. "Noise" to=
 a mechanical engineer (or most any engineer) is an undesireable by-product=
 of inefficiency, i.e. whatever is causing the noise is sapping energy from=
 whatever the machine is supposed to do (unless it's job is to make noise).=
 Having said that, stub stacks should reduce noise -all else being the same=
 - because the efficiency of the system is increased.=0A=0A=0ATo that end, =
Allen opens up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs Bernoulli is working ha=
rd for us at the piston/bridge, not the inlet throat. Without some kind of =
"stack" Bernoulli is screwing with us at the carb inlet as the "apparent" i=
nlet diameter gets smaller due to the air having to make a hard 90-degreee =
turn... turbulence is also introduced before the piston/bridge which is not=
 a happy thing for nice even fuel induction.=0A=0AThose two reasons are wha=
t makes the mixture "change" when you put a stack on. Not more air, per se,=
 but quality of air flow. =0A=0A=0AMike!=0A=0A=0AMichael Anderson=0AOne of =
a Kind Stuff/AEU=0A775 772-2056=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A=
 From: Wayne & Isabel Hardy <[email-masked]>=0ATo: List for the Z M=
agnette Group - North America <[email-masked]> =0ASent: Friday, N=
ovember 15, 2013 1:19 AM=0ASubject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks=0A =0A=0A=
=0A =0AIf the carbs are tuned again to compensate for more air to the =0Ain=
let, then more power should always be the result. If more power is =E2=80=
=9CBetter=E2=80=9D, =0Athen the answer is yes. But you must adjust for more=
 airflow to get a more =0Abetter running motor..ie more air will need more =
fuel too if a result is to be =0Amore power. Maybe a new, slightly richer n=
eedle is the ticket to heaven. I know =0Athe K&N filter people caution that=
 their filters flow so much more air than =0Athe usual paper ones, that a r=
icher needle, or jet, or slight enrichment =0Aadjustment may be desirable f=
or best running.=0AOf course all this extra air flow is also likely to crea=
te =0Amore inlet roar under acceleration. Is that =E2=80=9CBetter=E2=80=9D =
or not???=0AI personally run the MGA cleaner assemblies rather than the =0A=
Magnette one for better access to the carb adjustment screws for keeping up=
 with =0Asummer 100 degree days now swinging to winter 50 - 60 degree days =
and the =0Aresultant changes in idle speeds due to cooler, denser air, and =
the need to =0Arichen the mix by about 1/8th of a turn.=0AMG put on the big=
 old ugly oil bath filter for better engine =0Alife in a variety of dirty d=
usty operating situations around the world, and for =0Amore civilized opera=
tion in a quieter manner. Their true race motors ran with =0Avelocity stack=
s and no filters usually.=0A=C2=A0=0AWombat=C2=A0=0AFrom: Allen Bachelder =
=0ASent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:21 PM=0ATo: List for the Z Magnette=
 Group - North =0AAmerica =0ASubject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks=0A=C2=A0 =
I'm =0Acautiously venturing beyond my paygrade here, but are we not talking=
 about the =0ABernoulli Principle: stating that as air enters a conical tub=
e the air pressure =0Ais maximized, but as the tube diameter conically dimi=
nishes, air pressure =0Adecreases as air speed increases inside the carb.=
=C2=A0 Without a conical stub =0Astack, there is no acceleration in the air=
 entering the carb inlet.=C2=A0 How =0Amuch lift would we get from a cross-=
sectionally flat airplane wing-top with a =0Asquared-off leading edge? =0A=
=C2=A0=0AThat being said, how can the original Magnette intake plenum perfo=
rm any of =0Athis function? Same question for the intake plenums on T-serie=
s cars. I would =0Athink they would be Bernoullian disasters.=C2=A0 Would a=
 Magnette engine always =0Arun better with stub stacks rather than the orig=
inal plenum?=0A=C2=A0=0ACurious in Michigan.=0A=C2=A0=0A(Allen)=0A*********=
*******************************************************Allen =0A& Florrie B=
achelder=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3Diii=3D<=0ASpring =0ACreek H=
ome for Wayward MGs=0A'57 =0AZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT=0ANorth =0AStree=
t, MI 48049, =0AUSAhttp://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs*************=
***************************************************=0A=C2=A0=0AOn Nov 13, 2=
013, at 7:33 PM, John Park wrote:=0A=0ADepending  on length it can produce =
a much smoother flow, some say a bit of a ram effect  which increases power=
 and torque . Longer stacks as in longer runners means  more torque while s=
horter ones mean more power.=C2=A0 Not lots, but it all  contributes to a f=
reer flowing intake which helps your freer flowing exhaust  to make a bit m=
ore power/torque and slightly better fuel economy.=C2=A0 You  note vintage =
racers usually have anywhere from2.5 to 6 inch stacks. Some with  a stockin=
g for a coarse filter, most just hoping nothing of consequence enters  the =
throat=E2=80=A6 I have a set of 2.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inch K&N=E2=80=
=99s on my  MGB and they seem to help. Just the ho hum stock setup on my  M=
agnette.=0A> =C2=A0=0A>From:=C2=[email-masked]=C2=A0[ma=
ilto:[email-masked]]=C2=A0On Behalf Of=C2=A0Richard  Gree=
nberg=0A>Sent:=C2=A0Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:34  PM=0A>To:=C2=A0List=
 for the Z  Magnette Group - North America=0A>Subject:=C2=A0Re: [Zmagnette]=
 Stub  stacks=0A>=C2=A0=0A>What  is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filt=
er that lies closer to the engine  than a regular pancake filter?=0A>=C2=A0=
=0A>On  Nov 13, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>I'v=
e  always just used the item #54 from the Moss catalog:=C2=A0http://www.mos=
smotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#top=C2=A0 Are these=
 from APT or Rimmer  better?=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>Always  anxious to learn...=0A>=
>Allen=0A>>****************************************************************=
=0A>>Allen  & Florrie Bachelder=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0  =3Diii=
=3D<=0A>>Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs=0A>>'57  ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '7=
3 B/GT=0A>>North  Street, MI 48049, USA=0A>>http://www.mgexperience.net/mem=
ber/bachldrs=0A>>**********************************************************=
******=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>On  Nov 13, 2013, at 4:10 AM,=C2=[email-masked]=
et.nz=C2=A0wrote:=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Hi  everyone,=0A>>>=0A>>>I'd like to g=
et a pair of 1.5" H4 stub stacks and I've =0A      tried emailing Steve Ash=
 several times to see if he would make some more, =0A      but I haven't go=
t an answer from him.=0A>>>=0A>>>So... from a light scour of =0A      the i=
nternet there appears to be two types available at a reasonable =0A      co=
st:=0A>>>$32.50 ea -http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy=
%20Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx=0A>>>$57 =0A      pair -=C2=A0http://www.ri=
mmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT=0A>>>=0A>>>I've =0A      excluded the K&N =
ones as they are very rough, by all accounts.=0A>>>Are =0A      there any o=
thers that people would recommend?=0A>>>=0A>>>They're going to fit =0A     =
 inside K&N filters that are 2 1/8" thick.=0A>>>=0A>>>regards,=0A>>>--=C2=
=A0=0A>>>Robert (in =0A      NZ)=0A>>>_____________________________________=
__________=0A>>>Zmagnette =0A      mailing list=0A>>>=0A>>>Donate:=C2=A0htt=
p://www.team.net/donate.html=0A>>>Archive:=C2=A0http://www.team.net/archive=
=0A>>>Forums:=C2=A0http://www.team.net/forums=0A>>>Unsubscribe/Manage:=C2=
=A0http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=0A>=
>=C2=A0=0A>>_______________________________________________=0A>>Zmagnette =
=0A    mailing list=0A>>=0A>>Donate:=C2=A0http://www.team.net/donate.html=
=0A>>Archive:=C2=A0http://www.team.net/archive=0A>>Forums:=C2=A0http://www.=
team.net/forums=0A>>Unsubscribe/Manage:=C2=A0http://autox.team.net/mailman/=
options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=0A>=C2=A0______________________=
_________________________=0A>Zmagnette =0A  mailing list=0A>=0A>Donate:=C2=
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">I respectfully disagr=
ee that more air =3D more noise by default. "Noise" to a mechanical enginee=
r (or most any engineer) is an undesireable by-product of inefficiency, i.e=
. whatever is causing the noise is sapping energy from whatever the machine=
 is supposed to do (unless it's job is to make noise). Having said that, st=
ub stacks should reduce noise -all else being the same - because the effici=
ency of the system is increased.<br><div><span><br></span></div><div>To tha=
t end, Allen opens up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs Bernoulli is wor=
king hard for us at the piston/bridge, not the inlet throat. Without some k=
ind of "stack" Bernoulli is screwing with us at the carb inlet as the "appa=
rent" inlet diameter gets smaller due to the air having to make a hard 90-d=
egreee turn... turbulence is also introduced before the piston/bridge
 which is not a happy thing for nice even fuel induction.<br><br>Those two =
reasons are what makes the mixture "change" when you put a stack on. Not mo=
re air, per se, but quality of air flow. <br></div><div><br>Mike!</div><div=
><br><br></div><div>Michael Anderson<br>One of a Kind Stuff/AEU<br>775 772-=
2056</div><br>  <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times=
, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new=
 york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  =
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:=
</span></b> Wayne &amp; Isabel Hardy &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br> <b>=
<span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> List for the Z Magnette G=
roup - North America &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br> <b><span style=
=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, November 15, 2013 1:19 AM<=
br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Zmagnett=
e] Stub
 stacks<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><br>=0A<div id=3D=
"yiv1013556227"><base>=0A<div dir=3D"ltr">=0A<div dir=3D"ltr">=0A<div style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE:14pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';COLOR:#000000;">=0A<div><font size=
=3D"4">If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for more air to the =0Ain=
let, then more power should always be the result. If more power is =E2=80=
=9CBetter=E2=80=9D, =0Athen the answer is yes. But you must adjust for more=
 airflow to get a more =0Abetter running motor..ie more air will need more =
fuel too if a result is to be =0Amore power. Maybe a new, slightly richer n=
eedle is the ticket to heaven. I know =0Athe K&amp;N filter people caution =
that their filters flow so much more air than =0Athe usual paper ones, that=
 a richer needle, or jet, or slight enrichment =0Aadjustment may be desirab=
le for best running.</font></div>=0A<div><font size=3D"4">Of course all thi=
s extra air flow is also likely to create =0Amore inlet roar under accelera=
tion. Is that =E2=80=9CBetter=E2=80=9D or not???</font></div>=0A<div><font =
size=3D"4">I personally run the MGA cleaner assemblies rather than the =0AM=
agnette one for better access to the carb adjustment screws for keeping up =
with =0Asummer 100 degree days now swinging to winter 50 - 60 degree days a=
nd the =0Aresultant changes in idle speeds due to cooler, denser air, and t=
he need to =0Arichen the mix by about 1/8th of a turn.</font></div>=0A<div>=
<font size=3D"4">MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filter for better engi=
ne =0Alife in a variety of dirty dusty operating situations around the worl=
d, and for =0Amore civilized operation in a quieter manner. Their true race=
 motors ran with =0Avelocity stacks and no filters usually.</font></div>=0A=
<div><font size=3D"4"></font>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div><font size=3D"4">Wombat</f=
ont></div>=0A<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-WEIGH=
T:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none;DISPLAY:inlin=
e;">=0A<div style=3D"FONT:10pt tahoma;">=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div style=
=3D"BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5;">=0A<div style=3D""><b>From:</b> <a rel=3D"nofollow=
" title=3D"[email-masked]" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" ta=
rget=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Allen Bachelder</a> </=
div>=0A<div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:21 PM</div>=0A<div>=
<b>To:</b> <a rel=3D"nofollow" title=3D"[email-masked]" ymailto=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:zmagn=
[email-masked]">List for the Z Magnette Group - North =0AAmerica</a> <=
/div>=0A<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</div></div></div>=
=0A<div>&nbsp;</div></div>=0A<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-FAMILY:'Cal=
ibri';FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:no=
ne;DISPLAY:inline;">I'm =0Acautiously venturing beyond my paygrade here, bu=
t are we not talking about the =0ABernoulli Principle: stating that as air =
enters a conical tube the air pressure =0Ais maximized, but as the tube dia=
meter conically diminishes, air pressure =0Adecreases as air speed increase=
s inside the carb.&nbsp; Without a conical stub =0Astack, there is no accel=
eration in the air entering the carb inlet.&nbsp; How =0Amuch lift would we=
 get from a cross-sectionally flat airplane wing-top with a =0Asquared-off =
leading edge? =0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>That being said, how can the orig=
inal Magnette intake plenum perform any of =0Athis function? Same question =
for the intake plenums on T-series cars. I would =0Athink they would be Ber=
noullian disasters.&nbsp; Would a Magnette engine always =0Arun better with=
 stub stacks rather than the original plenum?</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<=
div>Curious in Michigan.</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>(Allen)</div>=0A<=
div>=0A<div><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"WHITE-SP=
ACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;CO=
LOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT:medium helvetica;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:norm=
al;TEXT-INDENT:0px;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D=
"WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACI=
NG:0px;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT:medium helvetica;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPA=
CING:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span=
 class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER=
-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FO=
NT:medium helvetica;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0p=
x;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"WHITE-SPACE:norm=
al;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;COLOR:rgb(=
0,0,0);FONT:medium helvetica;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;TEXT-=
INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013=
556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separat=
e;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT:medium helveti=
ca;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=
=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" st=
yle=3D"FONT-SIZE:12px;"><b><i>*********************************************=
*******************</i></b></span><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-s=
pan" style=3D"WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:no=
ne;WORD-SPACING:0px;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT:medium helvetica;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS=
:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;"> =0A=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:b=
reak-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-FAM=
ILY:helvetica;FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separa=
te;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:n=
ormal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break=
-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:=
helvetica;FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;T=
EXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:norma=
l;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-wor=
d;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helv=
etica;FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LI=
NE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Appl=
e-style-span" style=3D"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAP=
SE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-=
SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-W=
RAP:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"FON=
T-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM=
:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT=
:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span cla=
ss=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPA=
CE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORP=
HANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=
=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-s=
tyle-span" style=3D"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:=
separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPA=
CING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP=
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ARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:no=
ne;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:no=
rmal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=
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NS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=
=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-s=
tyle-span" style=3D"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:=
separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPA=
CING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP=
:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-V=
ARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:no=
ne;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:no=
rmal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=
=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE=
:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHA=
NS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=
=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-s=
tyle-span" style=3D"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:=
separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPA=
CING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP=
:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-V=
ARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:no=
ne;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:no=
rmal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=
=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE=
:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHA=
NS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=
=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-s=
tyle-span" style=3D"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:=
separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPA=
CING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP=
:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-V=
ARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:no=
ne;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:no=
rmal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=
=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE=
:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHA=
NS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=
=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-s=
tyle-span" style=3D"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:=
separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPA=
CING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP=
:break-word;FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:r=
gb(0,0,0);FONT-STYLE:normal;"><b><i>Allen =0A&amp; Florrie Bachelder&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =3Diii=3D&lt;<br>Spring =0ACreek Home for Way=
ward MGs</i></b></div>=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;FONT-SIZE:12px;=
FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-STYLE:normal=
;"><b><i>'57 =0AZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</i></b></div>=0A<div style=3D=
"WORD-WRAP:break-word;FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;FONT-WEIGHT:norm=
al;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-STYLE:normal;"><b><i>North =0AStreet, MI 48049, =
=0AUSA</i></b></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></s=
pan></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div>=
</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></d=
iv></span></div></span></div></span><b><i><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple=
-style-span" style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12px;">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/b=
achldrs</span></i></b><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=
=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COL=
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ER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;"> =0A=0A<div style=3D=
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WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div=
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OWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div st=
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=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" st=
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INE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"=
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NG:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-IND=
ENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556=
227Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER=
-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;=
LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D=
"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=
=3D"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TR=
ANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE=
-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><s=
pan class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WH=
ITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:=
0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT=
:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227=
Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-CO=
LLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LET=
TER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WO=
RD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D=
"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANS=
FORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HE=
IGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span=
 class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE=
-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px=
;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0p=
x;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227App=
le-style-span" style=3D"FONT-VARIANT:normal;WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLA=
PSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER=
-SPACING:normal;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A<div style=3D"WORD-=
WRAP:break-word;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-STYLE:normal;"><b>=
<i><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12px;FO=
NT-FAMILY:helvetica;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;">****************=
************************************************</span></i></b></div></span=
></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></s=
pan></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div>=
</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></d=
iv></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span></div></span></span=
></div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>=0A<div>On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:33 PM, Joh=
n Park wrote:</div><br class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-interchange-newline">=0A=
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" sty=
le=3D"WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-=
SPACING:0px;FONT:medium helvetica;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;=
TEXT-INDENT:0px;">=0A  <div lang=3D"EN-US">=0A  <div class=3D"yiv1013556227=
WordSection1" style=3D"">=0A  <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Tim=
es New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE:11pt;FON=
T-FAMILY:calibri, sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(31,73,125);">Depending =0A  on lengt=
h it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a bit of a ram effect =0A  =
which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as in longer runners means=
 =0A  more torque while shorter ones mean more power.&nbsp; Not lots, but i=
t all =0A  contributes to a freer flowing intake which helps your freer flo=
wing exhaust =0A  to make a bit more power/torque and slightly better fuel =
economy.&nbsp; You =0A  note vintage racers usually have anywhere from2.5 t=
o 6 inch stacks. Some with =0A  a stocking for a coarse filter, most just h=
oping nothing of consequence enters =0A  the throat=E2=80=A6 I have a set o=
f 2.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inch K&amp;N=E2=80=99s on my =0A  MGB and the=
y seem to help. Just the ho hum stock setup on my =0A  Magnette.</span></di=
v> =0A  <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;M=
ARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:calibri, sans=
-serif;COLOR:rgb(31,73,125);"></span> &nbsp;</div>=0A  <div>=0A  <div style=
=3D"BORDER-LEFT-STYLE:none;BORDER-TOP:rgb(225,225,225) 1pt solid;BORDER-BOT=
TOM-STYLE:none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:3pt;BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE:none;P=
ADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;">=0A  <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-=
FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"><b><span style=3D"FONT=
-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style=3D=
"FONT-SIZE:11pt;FONT-FAMILY:calibri, sans-serif;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556=
227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"COLOR:b=
lue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
eam.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-conv=
erted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:[email-masked]]<span cl=
ass=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>On Behalf Of<spa=
n class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Richard =0A=
  Greenberg<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-spac=
e">&nbsp;</span>Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:34 =0A  PM<br><b>To:</b><sp=
an class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>List for the Z=
 =0A  Magnette Group - North America<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"yiv10=
13556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub =0A  stack=
s</span></div></div></div> =0A  <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'T=
imes New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"> &nbsp;</div>=0A  <div style=3D=
"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;">W=
hat =0A  is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that lies closer to t=
he engine =0A  than a regular pancake filter?</div> =0A  <div>=0A  <div sty=
le=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0p=
t;"> &nbsp;</div>=0A  <div>=0A  <div>=0A  <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT=
-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;">On =0A  Nov 13, 2013,=
 at 9:53 AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:</div></div> =0A  <div style=3D"FONT-SIZ=
E:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"><br><br></=
div> =0A  <blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM:5pt;MARGIN-TOP:5pt;">=0A    <d=
iv>=0A    <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif=
;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;">I've =0A    always just used the item #54 from the Mo=
ss catalog:<span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>=
<a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;" target=
=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateI=
ndexID=3D28996#top">http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateI=
ndexID=3D28996#top</a><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&n=
bsp;</span> Are these from APT or Rimmer =0A    better?</div> =0A    <div>=
=0A    <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MA=
RGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"> &nbsp;</div></div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div style=3D"FONT=
-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;">Always=
 =0A    anxious to learn...</div></div> =0A    <div>=0A    <div style=3D"FO=
NT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;">Alle=
n</div> =0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;=
"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227apple-style-span"><b><i><span style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE:9pt;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica, sans-serif;">*******************************=
*********************************</span></i></b></span><span class=3D"yiv10=
13556227apple-style-span"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;FONT-FAMILY:helve=
tica, sans-serif;"></span></span></div> =0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div=
>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=
=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A=
    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;=
"><b><i><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE:9pt;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica, sans-serif;COLO=
R:black;">Allen =0A    &amp; Florrie Bachelder&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; =0A    =3Diii=3D&lt;<br>Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs</span></i=
></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE:9pt;COLOR:black;"></span></div></div> =0A    =
<div>=0A    <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', ser=
if;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"><b><i><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE:9pt;FONT-FAMILY:helv=
etica, sans-serif;COLOR:black;">'57 =0A    ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</s=
pan></i></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE:9pt;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica, sans-serif;=
COLOR:black;"></span></div></div> =0A    <div>=0A    <div style=3D"FONT-SIZ=
E:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"><b><i><spa=
n style=3D"FONT-SIZE:9pt;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica, sans-serif;COLOR:black;">No=
rth =0A    Street, MI 48049, USA</span></i></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE:9pt=
;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica, sans-serif;COLOR:black;"></span></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div> =0A    <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:=
'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227a=
pple-style-span"><b><i><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE:9pt;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica, =
sans-serif;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underl=
ine;" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs=
">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b></span><spa=
n class=3D"yiv1013556227apple-style-span"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE:13.5pt;"=
></span></span></div> =0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A  =
  <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <=
div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div=
>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'T=
imes New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227app=
le-style-span"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE:9pt;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica, sans-ser=
if;COLOR:black;">**********************************************************=
******</span></span><span style=3D"COLOR:black;"></span></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div> =0A    <div style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;=
"> &nbsp;</div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div>=0A    <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;=
FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;">On =0A    Nov 13,=
 2013, at 4:10 AM,<span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;=
</span><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><span class=3D"yiv1013=
556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>wrote:</div></div> =0A    <div st=
yle=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0=
pt;"><br><br></div> =0A    <blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM:5pt;MARGIN-TO=
P:5pt;">=0A      <div>=0A      <div class=3D"yiv1013556227MsoNormal" style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 12pt=
;">Hi =0A      everyone,<br><br>I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub stac=
ks and I've =0A      tried emailing Steve Ash several times to see if he wo=
uld make some more, =0A      but I haven't got an answer from him.<br><br>S=
o... from a light scour of =0A      the internet there appears to be two ty=
pes available at a reasonable =0A      cost:<br>$32.50 ea -<a rel=3D"nofoll=
ow" style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;" target=3D"_blank" href=
=3D"http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%=
20SU%20HS4.aspx">http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20=
Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx</a><br>$57 =0A      pair -<span class=3D"yiv10=
13556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"CO=
LOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.r=
immerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT">http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL13=
96ALT</a><br><br>I've =0A      excluded the K&amp;N ones as they are very r=
ough, by all accounts.<br>Are =0A      there any others that people would r=
ecommend?<br><br>They're going to fit =0A      inside K&amp;N filters that =
are 2 1/8" thick.<br><br>regards,<br>--<span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-co=
nverted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>Robert (in =0A      NZ)<br>________________=
_______________________________<br>Zmagnette =0A      mailing list<br><br>D=
onate:<span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a re=
l=3D"nofollow" style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;" target=3D"_b=
lank" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.h=
tml</a><br>Archive:<span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp=
;</span><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;"=
 target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net=
/archive</a><br>Forums:<span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&=
nbsp;</span><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underli=
ne;" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.=
net/forums</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage:<span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-conv=
erted-space">&nbsp;</span><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECO=
RATION:underline;" target=3D"_blank"
 href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=
et">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]</a=
></div></div></blockquote></div> =0A    <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-F=
AMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"> &nbsp;</div></div></di=
v>=0A    <div class=3D"yiv1013556227MsoNormal" style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT=
-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 12pt;">____________________=
___________________________<br>Zmagnette =0A    mailing list<br><br>Donate:=
<span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a rel=3D"n=
ofollow" style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;" target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a=
><br>Archive:<span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</spa=
n><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;" targe=
t=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archi=
ve</a><br>Forums:<span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;<=
/span><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;" t=
arget=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/fo=
rums</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage:<span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-=
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 href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=
ona.edu">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=
ona.edu</a></div></blockquote></div> =0A  <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT=
-FAMILY:'Times New Roman', serif;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;"> &nbsp;</div></div></=
div>_______________________________________________<br>Zmagnette =0A  maili=
ng list<br><br>Donate:<span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&n=
bsp;</span><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underlin=
e;" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.t=
eam.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive:<span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-conver=
ted-space">&nbsp;</span><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORA=
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CORATION:underline;" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums">=
http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage:<span class=3D"yiv1013=
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 href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]=
et">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]</a=
><br><br></div></span></blockquote></div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div></div>=0A<div>=
=0A</div><hr>=0A_______________________________________________<br>Zmagnett=
e mailing =0Alist<br><br>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<br>Archive=
: =0Ahttp://www.team.net/archive<br>Forums: =0Ahttp://www.team.net/forums<b=
r>Unsubscribe/Manage: =0Ahttp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/gw=
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te: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://ww=
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ve" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>Forums: <a href=3D=
"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</=
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From: "Gene deRuelle" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 07:26:54 -0800

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If you run the little stacks, aren't you subjecting the fuel/air mixture =
to whatever is IN the air?  In other words, you can't run the stacks and =
an air cleaner, can you?

Gene D
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Michael Anderson=20
  To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America=20
  Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 6:58 AM
  Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

  I respectfully disagree that more air =3D more noise by default. =
"Noise" to a mechanical engineer (or most any engineer) is an =
undesireable by-product of inefficiency, i.e. whatever is causing the =
noise is sapping energy from whatever the machine is supposed to do =
(unless it's job is to make noise). Having said that, stub stacks should =
reduce noise -all else being the same - because the efficiency of the =
system is increased.

  To that end, Allen opens up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs =
Bernoulli is working hard for us at the piston/bridge, not the inlet =
throat. Without some kind of "stack" Bernoulli is screwing with us at =
the carb inlet as the "apparent" inlet diameter gets smaller due to the =
air having to make a hard 90-degreee turn... turbulence is also =
introduced before the piston/bridge which is not a happy thing for nice =
even fuel induction.

  Those two reasons are what makes the mixture "change" when you put a =
stack on. Not more air, per se, but quality of air flow.=20

  Mike!

  Michael Anderson
  One of a Kind Stuff/AEU
  775 772-2056

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
  From: Wayne & Isabel Hardy <[email-masked]>
  To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America =
<[email-masked]>=20
  Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 1:19 AM
  Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

  If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for more air to the inlet, =
then more power should always be the result. If more power is =
=E2=80=9CBetter=E2=80=9D, then the answer is yes. But you must adjust =
for more airflow to get a more better running motor..ie more air will =
need more fuel too if a result is to be more power. Maybe a new, =
slightly richer needle is the ticket to heaven. I know the K&N filter =
people caution that their filters flow so much more air than the usual =
paper ones, that a richer needle, or jet, or slight enrichment =
adjustment may be desirable for best running.
  Of course all this extra air flow is also likely to create more inlet =
roar under acceleration. Is that =E2=80=9CBetter=E2=80=9D or not???
  I personally run the MGA cleaner assemblies rather than the Magnette =
one for better access to the carb adjustment screws for keeping up with =
summer 100 degree days now swinging to winter 50 - 60 degree days and =
the resultant changes in idle speeds due to cooler, denser air, and the =
need to richen the mix by about 1/8th of a turn.
  MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filter for better engine life in a =
variety of dirty dusty operating situations around the world, and for =
more civilized operation in a quieter manner. Their true race motors ran =
with velocity stacks and no filters usually.

  Wombat

  From: Allen Bachelder=20

  I'm cautiously venturing beyond my paygrade here, but are we not =
talking about the Bernoulli Principle: stating that as air enters a =
conical tube the air pressure is maximized, but as the tube diameter =
conically diminishes, air pressure decreases as air speed increases =
inside the carb.  Without a conical stub stack, there is no acceleration =
in the air entering the carb inlet.  How much lift would we get from a =
cross-sectionally flat airplane wing-top with a squared-off leading =
edge?=20

  That being said, how can the original Magnette intake plenum perform =
any of this function? Same question for the intake plenums on T-series =
cars. I would think they would be Bernoullian disasters.  Would a =
Magnette engine always run better with stub stacks rather than the =
original plenum?

  Curious in Michigan.

  (Allen)

    Depending on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a =
bit of a ram effect which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as =
in longer runners means more torque while shorter ones mean more power.  =
Not lots, but it all contributes to a freer flowing intake which helps =
your freer flowing exhaust to make a bit more power/torque and slightly =
better fuel economy.  You note vintage racers usually have anywhere =
from2.5 to 6 inch stacks. Some with a stocking for a coarse filter, most =
just hoping nothing of consequence enters the throat=E2=80=A6 I have a =
set of 2.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inch K&N=E2=80=99s on my MGB and they =
seem to help. Just the ho hum stock setup on my Magnette.

    What is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that lies closer =
to the engine than a regular pancake filter?

        Hi everyone,

        regards,
        --=20
        Robert (in NZ)

  Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
  Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
  Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
  Unsubscribe/Manage: =
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>If you run the little stacks, aren't =
you subjecting=20
the fuel/air mixture to whatever is IN the air?&nbsp; In other words, =
you can't=20
run the stacks and an air cleaner, can you?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Gene D</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[email-masked] =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Michael=20
  Anderson</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">List for the Z Magnette Group =
- North=20
  America</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 15, 2013 =
6:58=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub=20
stacks</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new =
york, times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I=20
  respectfully disagree that more air =3D more noise by default. "Noise" =
to a=20
  mechanical engineer (or most any engineer) is an undesireable =
by-product of=20
  inefficiency, i.e. whatever is causing the noise is sapping energy =
from=20
  whatever the machine is supposed to do (unless it's job is to make =
noise).=20
  Having said that, stub stacks should reduce noise -all else being the =
same -=20
  because the efficiency of the system is increased.<BR>
  <DIV><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>To that end, Allen opens up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs=20
  Bernoulli is working hard for us at the piston/bridge, not the inlet =
throat.=20
  Without some kind of "stack" Bernoulli is screwing with us at the carb =
inlet=20
  as the "apparent" inlet diameter gets smaller due to the air having to =
make a=20
  hard 90-degreee turn... turbulence is also introduced before the =
piston/bridge=20
  which is not a happy thing for nice even fuel induction.<BR><BR>Those =
two=20
  reasons are what makes the mixture "change" when you put a stack on. =
Not more=20
  air, per se, but quality of air flow. <BR></DIV>
  <DIV><BR>Mike!</DIV>
  <DIV><BR><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Michael Anderson<BR>One of a Kind Stuff/AEU<BR>775 =
772-2056</DIV><BR>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; =
FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; =
FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
  <DIV dir=3Dltr>
  <HR SIZE=3D1>
  <FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">From:</SPAN></B>=20
  Wayne &amp; Isabel Hardy &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> List for the Z Magnette =
Group - North=20
  America &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, November 15, 2013 =
1:19=20
  AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: =
[Zmagnette]=20
  Stub stacks<BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=3Dy_msg_container><BR>
  <DIV id=3Dyiv1013556227><BASE>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: =
14pt">
  <DIV><FONT size=3D4>If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for =
more air to=20
  the inlet, then more power should always be the result. If more power =
is=20
  =E2=80=9CBetter=E2=80=9D, then the answer is yes. But you must adjust =
for more airflow to get=20
  a more better running motor..ie more air will need more fuel too if a =
result=20
  is to be more power. Maybe a new, slightly richer needle is the ticket =
to=20
  heaven. I know the K&amp;N filter people caution that their filters =
flow so=20
  much more air than the usual paper ones, that a richer needle, or jet, =
or=20
  slight enrichment adjustment may be desirable for best =
running.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D4>Of course all this extra air flow is also likely =
to create=20
  more inlet roar under acceleration. Is that =E2=80=9CBetter=E2=80=9D =
or not???</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D4>I personally run the MGA cleaner assemblies rather =
than the=20
  Magnette one for better access to the carb adjustment screws for =
keeping up=20
  with summer 100 degree days now swinging to winter 50 - 60 degree days =
and the=20
  resultant changes in idle speeds due to cooler, denser air, and the =
need to=20
  richen the mix by about 1/8th of a turn.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D4>MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filter for =
better engine=20
  life in a variety of dirty dusty operating situations around the =
world, and=20
  for more civilized operation in a quieter manner. Their true race =
motors ran=20
  with velocity stacks and no filters usually.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D4>Wombat</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: =
none">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
  <DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank=20
  ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Allen Bachelder</A> </DIV>
  <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:21 PM</DIV>
  <DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3Dnofollow =
target=3D_blank=20
  ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">List for the Z Magnette =
Group -=20
  North America</A> </DIV>
  <DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</DIV></DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: =
none">I'm=20
  cautiously venturing beyond my paygrade here, but are we not talking =
about the=20
  Bernoulli Principle: stating that as air enters a conical tube the air =

  pressure is maximized, but as the tube diameter conically diminishes, =
air=20
  pressure decreases as air speed increases inside the carb.&nbsp; =
Without a=20
  conical stub stack, there is no acceleration in the air entering the =
carb=20
  inlet.&nbsp; How much lift would we get from a cross-sectionally flat =
airplane=20
  wing-top with a squared-off leading edge?=20
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>That being said, how can the original Magnette intake plenum =
perform any=20
  of this function? Same question for the intake plenums on T-series =
cars. I=20
  would think they would be Bernoullian disasters.&nbsp; Would a =
Magnette engine=20
  always run better with stub stacks rather than the original =
plenum?</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Curious in Michigan.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>(Allen)</DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN=20
  style=3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; =
ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: =
0px"=20
  class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span><SPAN=20
  style=3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; =
ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: =
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BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; =
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  class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span><SPAN=20
  style=3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
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  =
class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span><B><I>*****************************=
***********************************</I></B></SPAN><SPAN=20
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BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; =
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  class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span>=20
  <DIV style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word"><SPAN=20
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normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px"=20
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FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: =
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  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
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  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: =
0px"=20
  class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span>
  <DIV style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: =
0px"=20
  class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span>
  <DIV style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: =
0px"=20
  class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; WORD-WRAP: =
break-word; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-WEIGHT: =
normal"><B><I>Allen=20
  &amp; Florrie Bachelder&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =3Diii=3D&lt;<BR>Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs</I></B></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; WORD-WRAP: =
break-word; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-WEIGHT: =
normal"><B><I>'57=20
  ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</I></B></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; WORD-WRAP: =
break-word; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-WEIGHT: =
normal"><B><I>North=20
  Street, MI 48049,=20
  =
USA</I></B></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SP=
AN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV=
</DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN><B><I><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px"=20
  =
class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span>http://www.mgexperience.net/member/=
bachldrs</SPAN></I></B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
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  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
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  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: =
0px"=20
  class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span>
  <DIV style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; =
WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: =
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  class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; WORD-WRAP: break-word; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); =
FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><B><I><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 12px; =
FONT-WEIGHT: normal"=20
  =
class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span>***********************************=
*****************************</SPAN></I></B></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></D=
IV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPA=
N></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV>=
</SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN><=
/DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:33 PM, John Park wrote:</DIV><BR=20
  class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-interchange-newline>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><SPAN=20
    style=3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; =
ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px"=20
    class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span>
    <DIV lang=3DEN-US>
    <DIV class=3Dyiv1013556227WordSection1>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Depending=20
    on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a bit of a =
ram=20
    effect which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as in longer =
runners=20
    means more torque while shorter ones mean more power.&nbsp; Not =
lots, but it=20
    all contributes to a freer flowing intake which helps your freer =
flowing=20
    exhaust to make a bit more power/torque and slightly better fuel=20
    economy.&nbsp; You note vintage racers usually have anywhere from2.5 =
to 6=20
    inch stacks. Some with a stocking for a coarse filter, most just =
hoping=20
    nothing of consequence enters the throat=E2=80=A6 I have a set of =
2.25 inch stacks=20
    in my 3.25 inch K&amp;N=E2=80=99s on my MGB and they seem to help. =
Just the ho hum=20
    stock setup on my Magnette.</SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; =
BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; =
BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; BORDER-TOP: rgb(225,225,225) 1pt solid; =
PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: =
11pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><SPAN=20
    class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><A=20
    style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
    href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3Dnofollow =
target=3D_blank=20
    =
ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">zmagnette-bounces@aut=
ox.team.net</A><SPAN=20
    =
class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN>[mailto:zmagnette=
[email-masked]]<SPAN=20
    class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><B>On Behalf =
Of<SPAN=20
    class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></B>Richard=20
    Greenberg<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN=20
    class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN>Wednesday, =
November=20
    13, 2013 12:34 PM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN=20
    class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN>List for the =
Z=20
    Magnette Group - North America<BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN=20
    class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN>Re: =
[Zmagnette] Stub=20
    stacks</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
FONT-SIZE: 12pt">What=20
    is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that lies closer to the =
engine=20
    than a regular pancake filter?</DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On=20
    Nov 13, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:</DIV></DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I've=20
      always just used the item #54 from the Moss catalog:<SPAN=20
      class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><A=20
      style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
      =
href=3D"http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D2=
8996#top"=20
      rel=3Dnofollow=20
      =
target=3D_blank>http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateInd=
exID=3D28996#top</A><SPAN=20
      class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN> Are these =
from APT=20
      or Rimmer better?</DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Always=20
      anxious to learn...</DIV></DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Allen</DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN=20
      class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-style-span><B><I><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: =
9pt">****************************************************************</SP=
AN></I></B></SPAN><SPAN=20
      class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-style-span><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: =
13.5pt"></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><B><I><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: black; =
FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Allen=20
      &amp; Florrie Bachelder&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
      =3Diii=3D&lt;<BR>Spring Creek Home for Wayward =
MGs</SPAN></I></B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><B><I><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: black; =
FONT-SIZE: 9pt">'57=20
      ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</SPAN></I></B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: black; =
FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><B><I><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: black; =
FONT-SIZE: 9pt">North=20
      Street, MI 48049, USA</SPAN></I></B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: black; =
FONT-SIZE: =
9pt"></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><=
/DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN=20
      class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-style-span><B><I><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><A=20
      style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
      href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs" =
rel=3Dnofollow=20
      =
target=3D_blank>http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</A></SPAN></I=
></B></SPAN><SPAN=20
      class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-style-span><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN=20
      class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-style-span><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: black; =
FONT-SIZE: =
9pt">****************************************************************</SP=
AN></SPAN><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: =
black"></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV=
></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>=
</DIV></DIV></DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On=20
      Nov 13, 2013, at 4:10 AM,<SPAN=20
      class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><A=20
      style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
      href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3Dnofollow =
target=3D_blank=20
      =
ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A><SP=
AN=20
      =
class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN>wrote:</DIV></DIV=
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
        <DIV>
        <DIV=20
        style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"=20
        class=3Dyiv1013556227MsoNormal>Hi everyone,<BR><BR>I'd like to =
get a pair=20
        of 1.5" H4 stub stacks and I've tried emailing Steve Ash several =
times=20
        to see if he would make some more, but I haven't got an answer =
from=20
        him.<BR><BR>So... from a light scour of the internet there =
appears to be=20
        two types available at a reasonable cost:<BR>$32.50 ea -<A=20
        style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
        =
href=3D"http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20=
Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx"=20
        rel=3Dnofollow=20
        =
target=3D_blank>http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%2=
0Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx</A><BR>$57=20
        pair -<SPAN =
class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><A=20
        style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
        href=3D"http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT" =
rel=3Dnofollow=20
        =
target=3D_blank>http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT</A><BR><BR>=
I've=20
        excluded the K&amp;N ones as they are very rough, by all=20
        accounts.<BR>Are there any others that people would=20
        recommend?<BR><BR>They're going to fit inside K&amp;N filters =
that are 2=20
        1/8" thick.<BR><BR>regards,<BR>--<SPAN=20
        =
class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><BR>Robert (in=20
        =
NZ)<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Zmagnette=20
        mailing list<BR><BR>Donate:<SPAN=20
        class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><A=20
        style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
        href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3Dnofollow=20
        =
target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/donate.html</A><BR>Archive:<SPAN=20
        class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><A=20
        style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
        href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3Dnofollow=20
        target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/archive</A><BR>Forums:<SPAN=20
        class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><A=20
        style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
        href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3Dnofollow=20
        =
target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/forums</A><BR>Unsubscribe/Manage:<SPA=
N=20
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        style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
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From: Kelvin Dodd <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:15:06 -0800

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From: Allen Bachelder <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:30:03 -0500

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--Apple-Mail-38-351394014
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	charset=windows-1252

Gene, I'm talking about the "stub" stacks - so designed as to fit inside =
the filters. =20

Kelvin, Do your comments apply to the "adaptor plates" (illustration #54 =
in the Moss catalogue  =
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#top)=
?

Allen

On Nov 15, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Gene deRuelle wrote:

> If you run the little stacks, aren't you subjecting the fuel/air =
mixture to whatever is IN the air?  In other words, you can't run the =
stacks and an air cleaner, can you?
> =20
> Gene D
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Anderson
> If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for more air to the inlet, =
then more power should always be the result. If more power is =93Better=94=
, then the answer is yes. But you must adjust for more airflow to get a =
more better running motor..ie more air will need more fuel too if a =
result is to be more power. Maybe a new, slightly richer needle is the =
ticket to heaven. I know the K&N filter people caution that their =
filters flow so much more air than the usual paper ones, that a richer =
needle, or jet, or slight enrichment adjustment may be desirable for =
best running.
> From: Allen Bachelder

--Apple-Mail-38-351394014
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=windows-1252

<html><head><base href=3D"x-msg://612/"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: =
after-white-space; ">Gene, I'm talking about the "stub" stacks - so =
designed as to fit inside the filters. &nbsp;<div><br></div><div>Kelvin, =
Do your comments apply to the "adaptor plates" (illustration #54 in the =
Moss catalogue&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
8996#top</a>)?</div><div><br></div><div>Allen</div><div><div>

<br><div><div>On Nov 15, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Gene deRuelle =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"><div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">If you run the =
little stacks, aren't you subjecting the fuel/air mixture to whatever is =
IN the air?&nbsp; In other words, you can't run the stacks and an air =
cleaner, can you?</font></div><div><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div><div><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">Gene D</font></div><blockquote style=3D"border-left-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; =
padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: =
0px; "><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; =
">----- Original Message -----</div><div style=3D"font: normal normal =
normal 10pt/normal arial; background-image: initial; =
background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; =
background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial; "><b>From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
title=3D"[email-masked]" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Michael Anderson</a></div><div =
style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
title=3D"[email-masked]" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">List for the Z Magnette Group - =
North America</a></div><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal =
10pt/normal arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Friday, November 15, 2013 =
6:58 AM</div><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; =
"><b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: =
[Zmagnette] Stub stacks</div><div><br></div><div =
style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: 'times new =
roman', 'new york', times, serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt; =
">I respectfully disagree that more air =3D more noise by default. =
"Noise" to a mechanical engineer (or most any engineer) is an =
undesireable by-product of inefficiency, i.e. whatever is causing the =
noise is sapping energy from whatever the machine is supposed to do =
(unless it's job is to make noise). Having said that, stub stacks should =
reduce noise -all else being the same - because the efficiency of the =
system is increased.<br><div><span><br></span></div><div>To that end, =
Allen opens up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs Bernoulli is working =
hard for us at the piston/bridge, not the inlet throat. Without some =
kind of "stack" Bernoulli is screwing with us at the carb inlet as the =
"apparent" inlet diameter gets smaller due to the air having to make a =
hard 90-degreee turn... turbulence is also introduced before the =
piston/bridge which is not a happy thing for nice even fuel =
induction.<br><br>Those two reasons are what makes the mixture "change" =
when you put a stack on. Not more air, per se, but quality of air =
flow.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br></div><div><br>Mike!</div=
><div><br><br></div><div>Michael Anderson<br>One of a Kind =
Stuff/AEU<br>775 772-2056</div><br><div style=3D"font-family: 'times new =
roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "><div =
style=3D"font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; =
font-size: 12pt; "><div dir=3D"ltr"><hr size=3D"1"><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; =
">From:</span></b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Wayne=
 &amp; Isabel Hardy &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><=
b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>List for the Z Magnette =
Group - North America &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<=
span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b><span =
style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Friday, November 15, 2013 =
1:19 AM<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; =
">Subject:</span></b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub =
stacks<br></font></div><div class=3D"y_msg_container"><br><div =
id=3D"yiv1013556227"><base><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14pt; =
"><div><font size=3D"4">If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for =
more air to the inlet, then more power should always be the result. If =
more power is =93Better=94, then the answer is yes. But you must adjust =
for more airflow to get a more better running motor..ie more air will =
need more fuel too if a result is to be more power. Maybe a new, =
slightly richer needle is the ticket to heaven. I know the K&amp;N =
filter people caution that their filters flow so much more air than the =
usual paper ones, that a richer needle, or jet, or slight enrichment =
adjustment may be desirable for best running.</font></div><div><font =
size=3D"4">Of course all this extra air flow is also likely to create =
more inlet roar under acceleration. Is that =93Better=94 or =
not???</font></div><div><font size=3D"4">I personally run the MGA =
cleaner assemblies rather than the Magnette one for better access to the =
carb adjustment screws for keeping up with summer 100 degree days now =
swinging to winter 50 - 60 degree days and the resultant changes in idle =
speeds due to cooler, denser air, and the need to richen the mix by =
about 1/8th of a turn.</font></div><div><font size=3D"4">MG put on the =
big old ugly oil bath filter for better engine life in a variety of =
dirty dusty operating situations around the world, and for more =
civilized operation in a quieter manner. Their true race motors ran with =
velocity stacks and no filters usually.</font></div><div><font =
size=3D"4"></font>&nbsp;</div><div><font =
size=3D"4">Wombat</font></div><div style=3D"font-style: normal; display: =
inline; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: small; =
font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none; "><div style=3D"font: normal =
normal normal 10pt/normal tahoma; "><div>&nbsp;</div><div =
style=3D"background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; =
background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: =
rgb(245, 245, 245); background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial; "><div><b>From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
title=3D"[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Allen =
Bachelder</a></div><div><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, November 14, 2013 =
10:21 PM</div><div><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
title=3D"[email-masked]" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">List for =
the Z Magnette Group - North America</a></div><div><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub =
stacks</div></div></div><div>&nbsp;</div></div><div style=3D"font-style: =
normal; display: inline; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-size: small; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none; ">I'm =
cautiously venturing beyond my paygrade here, but are we not talking =
about the Bernoulli Principle: stating that as air enters a conical tube =
the air pressure is maximized, but as the tube diameter conically =
diminishes, air pressure decreases as air speed increases inside the =
carb.&nbsp; Without a conical stub stack, there is no acceleration in =
the air entering the carb inlet.&nbsp; How much lift would we get from a =
cross-sectionally flat airplane wing-top with a squared-off leading =
edge?<div>&nbsp;</div><div>That being said, how can the original =
Magnette intake plenum perform any of this function? Same question for =
the intake plenums on T-series cars. I would think they would be =
Bernoullian disasters.&nbsp; Would a Magnette engine always run better =
with stub stacks rather than the original =
plenum?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Curious in =
Michigan.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>(Allen)</div><div><div><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"widows: 2; =
text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; font: =
normal normal normal medium/normal helvetica; white-space: normal; =
orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); word-spacing: =
0px; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"widows: 2; =
text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; font: =
normal normal normal medium/normal helvetica; white-space: normal; =
orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"widows: 2; =
text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; font: =
normal normal normal medium/normal helvetica; white-space: normal; =
orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); word-spacing: =
0px; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"widows: 2; =
text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; font: =
normal normal normal medium/normal helvetica; white-space: normal; =
orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"widows: 2; =
text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; font: =
normal normal normal medium/normal helvetica; white-space: normal; =
orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
"><b><i>****************************************************************</=
i></b></span><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"widows: 2; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; font: normal normal normal medium/normal =
helvetica; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); word-spacing: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"line-height: normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; =
font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: helvetica; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: =
normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; =
text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; font-family: helvetica; =
white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; font-family: helvetica; white-space: normal; =
orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; =
letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"line-height: normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; =
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white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: =
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class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
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letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"line-height: normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; =
font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; =
white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
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style=3D"line-height: normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; =
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0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; =
letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"line-height: normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; =
font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; =
white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; =
letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"line-height: normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; =
font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; =
white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; =
letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"line-height: normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; =
font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; =
white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; =
letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"line-height: normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; =
font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; =
white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"font-style: normal; font-family: helvetica; =
word-wrap: break-word; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; =
font-weight: normal; "><b><i>Allen &amp; Florrie =
Bachelder&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =3Diii=3D&lt;<br>Spring =
Creek Home for Wayward MGs</i></b></div><div style=3D"font-style: =
normal; font-family: helvetica; word-wrap: break-word; color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-size: 12px; font-weight: normal; "><b><i>'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 =
C/GT, '73 B/GT</i></b></div><div style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-family: helvetica; word-wrap: break-word; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-size: 12px; font-weight: normal; "><b><i>North Street, MI 48049, =
USA</i></b></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></spa=
n></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div><=
/span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></d=
iv></span></div></span></div></span><b><i><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><a =
href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs">http://www.mgexperien=
ce.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; font-family: helvetica; white-space: normal; =
orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; font-family: helvetica; white-space: normal; =
orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; font-family: helvetica; white-space: normal; =
orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; =
letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"line-height: normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; =
font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; =
white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; =
letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"line-height: normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; =
font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; =
white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; =
letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"line-height: normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; =
font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; =
white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; =
letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"line-height: normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; =
font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; =
white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; =
letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"line-height: normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; =
font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; =
white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; =
letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"line-height: normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; =
font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; =
white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; =
letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"line-height: normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; =
font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; =
white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: normal; =
widows: 2; text-transform: none; font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; =
letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"line-height: normal; widows: 2; text-transform: none; =
font-variant: normal; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; =
white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; "><div style=3D"font-style: normal; word-wrap: break-word; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-weight: normal; "><b><i><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-weight: normal; =
">****************************************************************</span><=
/i></b></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></=
div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></spa=
n></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div><=
/span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></s=
pan></div></span></span></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><div>On Nov 13, =
2013, at 7:33 PM, John Park wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"widows: 2; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; =
border-collapse: separate; font: normal normal normal medium/normal =
helvetica; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; "><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div =
class=3D"yiv1013556227WordSection1"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "><span style=3D"font-family: =
calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; =
">Depending on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a =
bit of a ram effect which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as =
in longer runners means more torque while shorter ones mean more =
power.&nbsp; Not lots, but it all contributes to a freer flowing intake =
which helps your freer flowing exhaust to make a bit more power/torque =
and slightly better fuel economy.&nbsp; You note vintage racers usually =
have anywhere from2.5 to 6 inch stacks. Some with a stocking for a =
coarse filter, most just hoping nothing of consequence enters the =
throat=85 I have a set of 2.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inch K&amp;N=92s =
on my MGB and they seem to help. Just the ho hum stock setup on my =
Magnette.</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; font-size: 12pt; "><span style=3D"font-family: calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; =
"></span>&nbsp;</div><div><div style=3D"border-bottom-style: none; =
padding-bottom: 0in; border-right-style: none; padding-left: 0in; =
padding-right: 0in; border-left-style: none; border-top-color: rgb(225, =
225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-style: solid; padding-top: =
3pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: =
0pt; margin-left: 0in; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: =
12pt; "><b><span style=3D"font-family: calibri, sans-serif; font-size: =
11pt; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-family: calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 11pt; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">[email-masked]</a><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:zmagnett=
[email-masked]]<span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>On Behalf =
Of<span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Richard =
Greenberg<br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Wednesday, =
November 13, 2013 12:34 PM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>List for the Z =
Magnette Group - North America<br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: =
[Zmagnette] Stub stacks</span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; =
">&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; font-size: 12pt; ">What is a stub stack? Would it allow for a =
filter that lies closer to the engine than a regular pancake =
filter?</div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; font-size: 12pt; ">&nbsp;</div><div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; ">On Nov 13, =
2013, at 9:53 AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:</div></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; =
margin-left: 0in; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: =
12pt; "><br><br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: =
0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; ">I've always just used the item #54 =
from the Moss catalog:<span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28=
996#top" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#to=
p</a><span class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span=
 class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Are these from APT or =
Rimmer better?</div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: =
0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; ">&nbsp;</div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; =
margin-left: 0in; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: =
12pt; ">Always anxious to learn...</div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; =
margin-left: 0in; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: =
12pt; ">Allen</div><div><div><div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227apple-style-span"><b><i><span style=3D"font-family: =
helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt; =
">****************************************************************</span><=
/i></b></span><span class=3D"yiv1013556227apple-style-span"><span =
style=3D"font-family: helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13.5pt; =
"></span></span></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><d=
iv><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "><b><i><span =
style=3D"font-family: helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: =
9pt; ">Allen &amp; Florrie Bachelder&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
=3Diii=3D&lt;<br>Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs</span></i></b><span =
style=3D"color: black; font-size: 9pt; "></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; =
margin-left: 0in; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: =
12pt; "><b><i><span style=3D"font-family: helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; font-size: 9pt; ">'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 =
B/GT</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-family: helvetica, sans-serif; =
color: black; font-size: 9pt; "></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; =
margin-left: 0in; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: =
12pt; "><b><i><span style=3D"font-family: helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; font-size: 9pt; ">North Street, MI 48049, USA</span></i></b><span =
style=3D"font-family: helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: =
9pt; =
"></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div=
></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; =
margin-left: 0in; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: =
12pt; "><span class=3D"yiv1013556227apple-style-span"><b><i><span =
style=3D"font-family: helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt; "><a =
href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b></span><sp=
an class=3D"yiv1013556227apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font-size: =
13.5pt; =
"></span></span></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><d=
iv><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font-family: =
helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: 9pt; =
">****************************************************************</span><=
/span><span style=3D"color: black; =
"></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div=
></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; font-size: 12pt; ">&nbsp;</div><div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; ">On Nov 13, =
2013, at 4:10 AM,<span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"=
 ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">[email-masked]</a><span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>wrote:</div></di=
v><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; =
margin-left: 0in; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: =
12pt; "><br><br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div class=3D"yiv1013556227MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; =
margin-left: 0in; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: =
12pt; ">Hi everyone,<br><br>I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub =
stacks and I've tried emailing Steve Ash several times to see if he =
would make some more, but I haven't got an answer from him.<br><br>So... =
from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two types =
available at a reasonable cost:<br>$32.50 ea -<a =
href=3D"http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20S=
tack%20SU%20HS4.aspx" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%2=
0SU%20HS4.aspx</a><br>$57 pair -<span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT</a><br><br>I've excluded =
the K&amp;N ones as they are very rough, by all accounts.<br>Are there =
any others that people would recommend?<br><br>They're going to fit =
inside K&amp;N filters that are 2 1/8" thick.<br><br>regards,<br>--<span =
class=3D"yiv1013556227Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>Robert (in =
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--Apple-Mail-38-351394014--

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---

From: Kelvin Dodd <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:48:06 -0800

--===============2040751176==
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	boundary="_000_4D4FABA15328FC42B1AA0DEE4673548C0188BE7523A9DREX04datac_"

--_000_4D4FABA15328FC42B1AA0DEE4673548C0188BE7523A9DREX04datac_
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Hi Allen.

My comments apply to spending time and money on any bolt on component where=
 the existing fuel and ignition systems of the vehicle have not been optimi=
zed.

Most high speed roughness issues are due to a combination of worn advance s=
prings and inaccurate carburetor balance at speed.

Of course, the MGB adapter plates offer an improvement over flat pancake fi=
lters. They are available used, cheap and are a good way to go with the sli=
p on K&N filters.
My comment was addressed at the question of spending a chunk of cash on stu=
b stacks which offer a minor improvement to high speed air flow, when most =
owners don't cruise above 3500 rpm because the motors are shaking themselve=
s to bits due to basic tuning issues.

.

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]=
.net] On Behalf Of Allen Bachelder
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 8:30 AM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

Gene, I'm talking about the "stub" stacks - so designed as to fit inside th=
e filters.

Kelvin, Do your comments apply to the "adaptor plates" (illustration #54 in=
 the Moss catalogue  http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?Plate=
IndexID=3D28996#top)?

Allen

If you run the little stacks, aren't you subjecting the fuel/air mixture to=
 whatever is IN the air?  In other words, you can't run the stacks and an a=
ir cleaner, can you?

Gene D
----- Original Message -----
am.net>

 - because the efficiency of the system is increased.

To that end, Allen opens up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs Bernoulli =
is working hard for us at the piston/bridge, not the inlet throat. Without =
some kind of "stack" Bernoulli is screwing with us at the carb inlet as the=
 "apparent" inlet diameter gets smaller due to the air having to make a har=
d 90-degreee turn... turbulence is also introduced before the piston/bridge=
 which is not a happy thing for nice even fuel induction.

Those two reasons are what makes the mixture "change" when you put a stack =
on. Not more air, per se, but quality of air flow.

Mike!

Michael Anderson
One of a Kind Stuff/AEU
775 772-2056

________________________________
k.net>>
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America <[email-masked]=
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for more air to the inlet, then =
more power should always be the result. If more power is "Better", then the=
 answer is yes. But you must adjust for more airflow to get a more better r=
unning motor..ie more air will need more fuel too if a result is to be more=
 power. Maybe a new, slightly richer needle is the ticket to heaven. I know=
 the K&N filter people caution that their filters flow so much more air tha=
n the usual paper ones, that a richer needle, or jet, or slight enrichment =
adjustment may be desirable for best running.
Of course all this extra air flow is also likely to create more inlet roar =
under acceleration. Is that "Better" or not???
I personally run the MGA cleaner assemblies rather than the Magnette one fo=
r better access to the carb adjustment screws for keeping up with summer 10=
0 degree days now swinging to winter 50 - 60 degree days and the resultant =
changes in idle speeds due to cooler, denser air, and the need to richen th=
e mix by about 1/8th of a turn.
MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filter for better engine life in a vari=
ety of dirty dusty operating situations around the world, and for more civi=
lized operation in a quieter manner. Their true race motors ran with veloci=
ty stacks and no filters usually.

Wombat

am.net>

I'm cautiously venturing beyond my paygrade here, but are we not talking ab=
out the Bernoulli Principle: stating that as air enters a conical tube the =
air pressure is maximized, but as the tube diameter conically diminishes, a=
ir pressure decreases as air speed increases inside the carb.  Without a co=
nical stub stack, there is no acceleration in the air entering the carb inl=
et.  How much lift would we get from a cross-sectionally flat airplane wing=
-top with a squared-off leading edge?

That being said, how can the original Magnette intake plenum perform any of=
 this function? Same question for the intake plenums on T-series cars. I wo=
uld think they would be Bernoullian disasters.  Would a Magnette engine alw=
ays run better with stub stacks rather than the original plenum?

Curious in Michigan.

(Allen)

Depending on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a bit of =
a ram effect which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as in longer =
runners means more torque while shorter ones mean more power.  Not lots, bu=
t it all contributes to a freer flowing intake which helps your freer flowi=
ng exhaust to make a bit more power/torque and slightly better fuel economy=
.  You note vintage racers usually have anywhere from2.5 to 6 inch stacks. =
Some with a stocking for a coarse filter, most just hoping nothing of conse=
quence enters the throat... I have a set of 2.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inc=
h K&N's on my MGB and they seem to help. Just the ho hum stock setup on my =
Magnette.

net> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Richard Greenbe=
rg
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:34 PM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

k.net.nz> wrote:

Hi everyone,

So... from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two types avai=
lable at a reasonable cost:
$32.50 ea -http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%2=
0Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx
$57 pair - http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT

regards,

[email-masked]

________________________________
_______________________________________________
Zmagnette mailing list

@suddenlink.net

sbcglobal.net

________________________________

[email-masked]

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi Allen.=
 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My comments apply to spending time and mone=
y on any bolt on component where the existing fuel and ignition systems of =
the vehicle have not been optimized.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Most hig=
h speed roughness issues are due to a combination of worn advance springs a=
nd inaccurate carburetor balance at speed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Of=
 course, the MGB adapter plates offer an improvement over flat pancake filt=
ers. They are available used, cheap and are a good way to go with the slip =
on K&amp;N filters. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My c=
omment was addressed at the question of spending a chunk of cash on stub st=
acks which offer a minor improvement to high speed air flow, when most owne=
rs don&#8217;t cruise above 3500 rpm because the motors are shaking themsel=
ves to bits due to basic tuning issues. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
'>. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;paddin=
g:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> [email-masked].=
net [mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Allen Bac=
helder<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 15, 2013 8:30 AM<br><b>To:</b> List=
 for the Z Magnette Group - North America<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Zmagnette=
] Stub stacks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Gene, I'm talking about the &quot;stub&q=
uot; stacks - so designed as to fit inside the filters. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></=
p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal>Kelvin, Do your comments apply to the &quot;adaptor plates&quot; (ill=
ustration #54 in the Moss catalogue&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.mossmo=
tors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#top">http://www.mossmo=
tors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#top</a>)?<o:p></o:p></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal>Allen<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><b><i><span style=3D'font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>**********************=
******************************************</span></i></b></span><span class=
=3Dapple-style-span><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica"=
,"sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><div><div><div><div=
><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family=
:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Allen &amp; Florrie Bachelder &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; =3Diii=3D&lt;<br>Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs</span></i=
></b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica=
","sans-serif";color:black'>'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</span></i></b=
><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:=
black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>No=
rth Street, MI 48049, USA</span></i></b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font=
-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-st=
yle-span><b><i><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans=
-serif";color:black'><a href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs=
">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b></span><spa=
n class=3Dapple-style-span><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><=
div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-=
style-span><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-ser=
if";color:black'>**********************************************************=
******</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Nov 15, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Gene deRuelle wrot=
e:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",=
"sans-serif"'>If you run the little stacks, aren't you subjecting the fuel/=
air mixture to whatever is IN the air?&nbsp; In other words, you can't run =
the stacks and an air cleaner, can you?</span><span style=3D'font-size:13.5=
pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica"=
,"sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Gene D</s=
pan><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:sol=
id black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0p=
t;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>----- Original Mes=
sage -----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'ba=
ckground:#E4E4E4'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span></span>=
<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" title=3D"[email-masked]">Michael And=
erson</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><spa=
n class=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t" title=3D"[email-masked]">List for the Z Magnette Group - North=
 America</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b=
><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Friday, November 15, 2013 6:58 AM<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span class=
=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial=
","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks<o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-famil=
y:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>I respe=
ctfully disagree that more air =3D more noise by default. &quot;Noise&quot;=
 to a mechanical engineer (or most any engineer) is an undesireable by-prod=
uct of inefficiency, i.e. whatever is causing the noise is sapping energy f=
rom whatever the machine is supposed to do (unless it's job is to make nois=
e). Having said that, stub stacks should reduce noise -all else being the s=
ame - because the efficiency of the system is increased.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'colo=
r:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>To that end, Allen opens =
up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs Bernoulli is working hard for us at=
 the piston/bridge, not the inlet throat. Without some kind of &quot;stack&=
quot; Bernoulli is screwing with us at the carb inlet as the &quot;apparent=
&quot; inlet diameter gets smaller due to the air having to make a hard 90-=
degreee turn... turbulence is also introduced before the piston/bridge whic=
h is not a happy thing for nice even fuel induction.<br><br>Those two reaso=
ns are what makes the mixture &quot;change&quot; when you put a stack on. N=
ot more air, per se, but quality of air flow.<span class=3Dapple-converted-=
space>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal st=
yle=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'><br>Mike!<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;back=
ground:white'><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:=
black'>Michael Anderson<br>One of a Kind Stuff/AEU<br>775 772-2056<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span st=
yle=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div class=
=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center;background:white'><s=
pan style=3D'color:black'><hr size=3D1 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span=
></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></=
b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Wayne &amp;=
 Isabel Hardy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">gwhardy@suddenl=
ink.net</a>&gt;<br><b>To:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</sp=
an>List for the Z Magnette Group - North America &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zmag=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<span class=3Dapple-c=
onverted-space>&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-s=
pace>&nbsp;</span>Friday, November 15, 2013 1:19 AM<br><b>Subject:</b><span=
 class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</sp=
an><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D=
MsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p><div id=3Dyiv1013556227><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-fam=
ily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>If the carbs are tuned again to com=
pensate for more air to the inlet, then more power should always be the res=
ult. If more power is &#8220;Better&#8221;, then the answer is yes. But you=
 must adjust for more airflow to get a more better running motor..ie more a=
ir will need more fuel too if a result is to be more power. Maybe a new, sl=
ightly richer needle is the ticket to heaven. I know the K&amp;N filter peo=
ple caution that their filters flow so much more air than the usual paper o=
nes, that a richer needle, or jet, or slight enrichment adjustment may be d=
esirable for best running.</span><span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt=
;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Of course all this extra a=
ir flow is also likely to create more inlet roar under acceleration. Is tha=
t &#8220;Better&#8221; or not???</span><span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font=
-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-size:=
13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I personally run the=
 MGA cleaner assemblies rather than the Magnette one for better access to t=
he carb adjustment screws for keeping up with summer 100 degree days now sw=
inging to winter 50 - 60 degree days and the resultant changes in idle spee=
ds due to cooler, denser air, and the need to richen the mix by about 1/8th=
 of a turn.</span><span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:black'>MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filte=
r for better engine life in a variety of dirty dusty operating situations a=
round the world, and for more civilized operation in a quieter manner. Thei=
r true race motors ran with velocity stacks and no filters usually.</span><=
span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:bla=
ck'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'backgrou=
nd:white'><span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Wombat</span><span style=3D'font-size:14.0p=
t;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp=
;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'backgr=
ound:whitesmoke'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","s=
ans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:bl=
ack'>&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahom=
a","sans-serif";color:black'><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank" title=3D"[email-masked]">Allen Bachelder</a><o:p></o:p></=
span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:bl=
ack'>Sent:</span></b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><=
/span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";col=
or:black'>Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:21 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>To:</span><=
/b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span></span><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" title=3D"zmagnette@a=
utox.team.net">List for the Z Magnette Group - North America</a><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:whitesmoke'>=
<b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:=
black'>Subject:</span></b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<=
/span></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser=
if";color:black'>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></d=
iv></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span=
 style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I'm cautiously ve=
nturing beyond my paygrade here, but are we not talking about the Bernoulli=
 Principle: stating that as air enters a conical tube the air pressure is m=
aximized, but as the tube diameter conically diminishes, air pressure decre=
ases as air speed increases inside the carb.&nbsp; Without a conical stub s=
tack, there is no acceleration in the air entering the carb inlet.&nbsp; Ho=
w much lift would we get from a cross-sectionally flat airplane wing-top wi=
th a squared-off leading edge?<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:black'>That being said, how can the original Magnette intake ple=
num perform any of this function? Same question for the intake plenums on T=
-series cars. I would think they would be Bernoullian disasters.&nbsp; Woul=
d a Magnette engine always run better with stub stacks rather than the orig=
inal plenum?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'=
background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:b=
lack'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'=
background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:b=
lack'>Curious in Michigan.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-=
serif";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-=
serif";color:black'>(Allen)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span class=3Dyiv10135=
56227apple-style-span><b><i><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Hel=
vetica","sans-serif";color:black'>*****************************************=
***********************</span></i></b></span><span class=3Dyiv1013556227app=
le-style-span><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans=
-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><d=
iv><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><i><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Allen &amp; Florrie Bacheld=
er&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =3Diii=3D&lt;<br>Spring Creek Home f=
or Wayward MGs</span></i></b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><i><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:bla=
ck'>'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</span></i></b><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span=
></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><i><span=
 style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'=
>North Street, MI 48049, USA</span></i></b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background=
:white'><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-style-span><b><i><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href=3D"=
http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs">http://www.mgexperience.net/me=
mber/bachldrs</a></span></i></b></span><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-sty=
le-span><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><div>=
<div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>=
<div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span class=
=3Dyiv1013556227apple-style-span><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family=
:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>************************************=
****************************</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></d=
iv></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-ser=
if";color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMso=
Normal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","san=
s-serif";color:black'>On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:33 PM, John Park wrote:<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><br><br><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><=
span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F=
497D'>Depending on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a b=
it of a ram effect which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as in l=
onger runners means more torque while shorter ones mean more power.&nbsp; N=
ot lots, but it all contributes to a freer flowing intake which helps your =
freer flowing exhaust to make a bit more power/torque and slightly better f=
uel economy.&nbsp; You note vintage racers usually have anywhere from2.5 to=
 6 inch stacks. Some with a stocking for a coarse filter, most just hoping =
nothing of consequence enters the throat&#8230; I have a set of 2.25 inch s=
tacks in my 3.25 inch K&amp;N&#8217;s on my MGB and they seem to help. Just=
 the ho hum stock setup on my Magnette.</span><span style=3D'color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:wh=
ite'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in=
 0in'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From:<=
/span></b><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</spa=
n></span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:black'><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a><span class=3Dyiv1013556227app=
le-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>[<a href=3D"mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.=
team.net">mailto:[email-masked]</a>]<span class=3Dyiv1013=
556227apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=3Dyiv10=
13556227apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></b>Richard Greenberg<br><b>Sent=
:</b><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Wednesda=
y, November 13, 2013 12:34 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple=
-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>List for the Z Magnette Group - North America=
<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space>&nbsp;<=
/span>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</span><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></=
o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'backgro=
und:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:bla=
ck'>What is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that lies closer to t=
he engine than a regular pancake filter?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:bla=
ck'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>On Nov 13, 2013, at 9=
:53 AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style=
=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D'mar=
gin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'=
background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>I've always just used the ite=
m #54 from the Moss catalog:<span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-spac=
e>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?=
PlateIndexID=3D28996#top" target=3D"_blank">http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/=
ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#top</a><span class=3Dyiv1013556227ap=
ple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;=
</span>Are these from APT or Rimmer better?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:=
black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>Always anxious to=
 learn...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>Allen<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'backgrou=
nd:white'><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-style-span><b><i><span style=3D'=
font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>*********=
*******************************************************</span></i></b></spa=
n><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><d=
iv><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><d=
iv><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><i><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Al=
len &amp; Florrie Bachelder&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =3Diii=3D&l=
t;<br>Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs</span></i></b><span style=3D'color:=
black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal sty=
le=3D'background:white'><b><i><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"H=
elvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</span=
></i></b><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><i><span style=3D'=
font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>North Str=
eet, MI 48049, USA</span></i></b><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal style=3D'background:white'><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-style-span>=
<b><i><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";c=
olor:black'><a href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b><=
/span><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><di=
v><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><di=
v><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span class=3Dy=
iv1013556227apple-style-span><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"He=
lvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>****************************************=
************************</span></span><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div=
></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span sty=
le=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>On Nov=
 13, 2013, at 4:10 AM,<span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space>&nbs=
p;</span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">monst=
[email-masked]</a><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space>&nbs=
p;</span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;ma=
rgin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>Hi everyone,<b=
r><br>I'd like to get a pair of 1.5&quot; H4 stub stacks and I've tried ema=
iling Steve Ash several times to see if he would make some more, but I have=
n't got an answer from him.<br><br>So... from a light scour of the internet=
 there appears to be two types available at a reasonable cost:<br>$32.50 ea=
 -<a href=3D"http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub=
%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx" target=3D"_blank">http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem=
/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx</a><br>$57 pair -<s=
pan class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http=
://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT" target=3D"_blank">http://www.rim=
merbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT</a><br><br>I've excluded the K&amp;N ones a=
s they are very rough, by all accounts.<br>Are there any others that people=
 would recommend?<br><br>They're going to fit inside K&amp;N filters that a=
re 2 1/8&quot; thick.<br><br>regards,<br>--<span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple=
-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>Robert (in NZ)<br>_______________________=
________________________<br>Zmagnette mailing list<br><br>Donate:<span clas=
s=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://www.t=
eam.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><=
br>Archive:<span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a=
 href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net=
/archive</a><br>Forums:<span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space>&nb=
sp;</span><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ww.team.net/forums</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage:<span class=3Dyiv1013556227app=
le-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/op=
tions/zmagnette/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.n=
et/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>=
</div></div></blockquote></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'backgroun=
d:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></di=
v></div><div style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'b=
ackground:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>______________________________=
_________________<br>Zmagnette mailing list<br><br>Donate:<span class=3Dyiv=
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/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Arch=
ive:<span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href=
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ive</a><br>Forums:<span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</=
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et/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p></span=
></p></div></blockquote></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background=
:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div=
></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:13.5pt;background:white'=
><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color=
:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Zmagnette mailin=
g list<br><br>Donate:<span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space>&nbsp=
;</span><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive:<span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-=
converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=
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ums" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage=
:<span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"h=
ttp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/bachldrs@comcas=
t.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";col=
or:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div class=3DMsoNormal al=
ign=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center;background:white'><span style=3D'fo=
nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" a=
lign=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0=
pt;background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Zmagnette maili=
ng list<br><br>Donate:<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a h=
ref=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>=
<br>Archive:<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"htt=
p://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>Forums:<span c=
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rums">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage:<span class=3Dap=
ple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/o=
ptions/zmagnette/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/opti=
ons/zmagnette/[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><=
/div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;backgro=
und:white'><span style=3D'color:black'><br>________________________________=
_______________<br>Zmagnette mailing list<br><br>Donate:<span class=3Dapple=
-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive:<span class=
=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archiv=
e" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>Forums:<span class=
=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums=
" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage:<s=
pan class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://autox.team=
.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http=
://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]</a><br><br=
><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=
=3D'text-align:center'><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helveti=
ca","sans-serif"'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helve=
tica","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:13.5pt'><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:=
"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>_______________________________________________<b=
r>Zmagnette mailing list<br><br>Donate:<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>=
&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.ne=
t/donate.html</a><br>Archive:<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</sp=
an><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a><=
br>Forums:<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http:=
//www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage=
:<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/m=
ailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockq=
uote><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:13.5pt'><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>_______________________=
________________________<br>Zmagnette mailing list<br><br>Donate:<span clas=
s=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donat=
e.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive:<span class=3Dapple-=
converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http:/=
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</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p></div></div></body></html>=

--_000_4D4FABA15328FC42B1AA0DEE4673548C0188BE7523A9DREX04datac_--

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--===============2040751176==--

---

From: "Wayne & Isabel Hardy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:08:28 -0600

--===============0319681704==
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Yea that sounds nice all that about efficiency, but fact of the matter =
is that the big old factory cleaner was much quieter than the small =
cleaners or just velocity stacks...more air seems to make more noise, =
just turn your garage fan from low to high speed and tell me which =
setting is loudest or sit in the car and turn the heater / ac fan up to =
high and compare it to the low setting and see which one you like best.
The intake roar doesn=E2=80=99t bother me in the least nor does a nice =
hum from the exhausting gases but some folks do not like gaseous noises =
from either end.

From: Gene deRuelle=20
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013=20
To: Michael Anderson ; List for the Z Magnette Group - North America=20
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

Gene D

  Mike!

  Michael Anderson
  One of a Kind Stuff/AEU
  775 772-2056

  Wombat

  From: Allen Bachelder=20

  Curious in Michigan.

  (Allen)

        Hi everyone,

        regards,
        --=20
        Robert (in NZ)

------=_NextPart_000_0035_01CEE1F3.035F68D0
	charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23515">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY dir=3Dltr bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Yea that sounds nice all that about efficiency, but =
fact of=20
the matter is that the big old factory cleaner was much quieter than the =
small=20
cleaners or just velocity stacks...more air seems to make more noise, =
just turn=20
your garage fan from low to high speed and tell me which setting is =
loudest or=20
sit in the car and turn the heater / ac fan up to high and compare it to =
the low=20
setting and see which one you like best.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>The intake roar doesn=E2=80=99t bother me in the =
least nor does a nice=20
hum from the exhausting gases but some folks do not like gaseous noises =
from=20
either end.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: =
inline">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV><FONT size=3D4 face=3DCalibri></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Gene deRuelle</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 15, 2013 </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Michael Anderson</A> ; <A=20
title=[email-masked] =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">List for=20
the Z Magnette Group - North America</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: =
inline">
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>If you run the little stacks, aren't =
you subjecting=20
the fuel/air mixture to whatever is IN the air?&nbsp; In other words, =
you can't=20
run the stacks and an air cleaner, can you?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Gene D</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px =
solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[email-masked] =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Michael=20
  Anderson</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">List for the Z Magnette Group =
- North=20
  America</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 15, 2013 =
6:58=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub=20
stacks</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, =
times, serif; COLOR: #000; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">I=20
  respectfully disagree that more air =3D more noise by default. "Noise" =
to a=20
  mechanical engineer (or most any engineer) is an undesireable =
by-product of=20
  inefficiency, i.e. whatever is causing the noise is sapping energy =
from=20
  whatever the machine is supposed to do (unless it's job is to make =
noise).=20
  Having said that, stub stacks should reduce noise -all else being the =
same -=20
  because the efficiency of the system is increased.<BR>
  <DIV><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>To that end, Allen opens up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs=20
  Bernoulli is working hard for us at the piston/bridge, not the inlet =
throat.=20
  Without some kind of "stack" Bernoulli is screwing with us at the carb =
inlet=20
  as the "apparent" inlet diameter gets smaller due to the air having to =
make a=20
  hard 90-degreee turn... turbulence is also introduced before the =
piston/bridge=20
  which is not a happy thing for nice even fuel induction.<BR><BR>Those =
two=20
  reasons are what makes the mixture "change" when you put a stack on. =
Not more=20
  air, per se, but quality of air flow. <BR></DIV>
  <DIV><BR>Mike!</DIV>
  <DIV><BR><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Michael Anderson<BR>One of a Kind Stuff/AEU<BR>775 772-2056</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, =
times, serif">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, =
times, serif">
  <DIV dir=3Dltr>
  <HR SIZE=3D1>
  <FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">From:</SPAN></B>=20
  Wayne &amp; Isabel Hardy &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> List for the Z Magnette =
Group - North=20
  America &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, November 15, 2013 =
1:19=20
  AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: =
[Zmagnette]=20
  Stub stacks<BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=3Dy_msg_container>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV id=3Dyiv1013556227><BASE>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: =
#000000">
  <DIV><FONT size=3D4>If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for =
more air to=20
  the inlet, then more power should always be the result. If more power =
is=20
  =E2=80=9CBetter=E2=80=9D, then the answer is yes. But you must adjust =
for more airflow to get=20
  a more better running motor..ie more air will need more fuel too if a =
result=20
  is to be more power. Maybe a new, slightly richer needle is the ticket =
to=20
  heaven. I know the K&amp;N filter people caution that their filters =
flow so=20
  much more air than the usual paper ones, that a richer needle, or jet, =
or=20
  slight enrichment adjustment may be desirable for best =
running.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D4>Of course all this extra air flow is also likely =
to create=20
  more inlet roar under acceleration. Is that =E2=80=9CBetter=E2=80=9D =
or not???</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D4>I personally run the MGA cleaner assemblies rather =
than the=20
  Magnette one for better access to the carb adjustment screws for =
keeping up=20
  with summer 100 degree days now swinging to winter 50 - 60 degree days =
and the=20
  resultant changes in idle speeds due to cooler, denser air, and the =
need to=20
  richen the mix by about 1/8th of a turn.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D4>MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filter for =
better engine=20
  life in a variety of dirty dusty operating situations around the =
world, and=20
  for more civilized operation in a quieter manner. Their true race =
motors ran=20
  with velocity stacks and no filters usually.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D4>Wombat</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: =
normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; =
DISPLAY: inline">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
  <DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank=20
  ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Allen Bachelder</A> </DIV>
  <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:21 PM</DIV>
  <DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3Dnofollow =
target=3D_blank=20
  ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">List for the Z Magnette =
Group -=20
  North America</A> </DIV>
  <DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</DIV></DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: =
normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; =
DISPLAY: inline">I'm=20
  cautiously venturing beyond my paygrade here, but are we not talking =
about the=20
  Bernoulli Principle: stating that as air enters a conical tube the air =

  pressure is maximized, but as the tube diameter conically diminishes, =
air=20
  pressure decreases as air speed increases inside the carb.&nbsp; =
Without a=20
  conical stub stack, there is no acceleration in the air entering the =
carb=20
  inlet.&nbsp; How much lift would we get from a cross-sectionally flat =
airplane=20
  wing-top with a squared-off leading edge?=20
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>That being said, how can the original Magnette intake plenum =
perform any=20
  of this function? Same question for the intake plenums on T-series =
cars. I=20
  would think they would be Bernoullian disasters.&nbsp; Would a =
Magnette engine=20
  always run better with stub stacks rather than the original =
plenum?</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Curious in Michigan.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>(Allen)</DIV>
  <DIV>
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***</I></B></SPAN><SPAN=20
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2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px">
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separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: =
2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px">
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separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: =
2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px">
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separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: =
2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word"><SPAN =
class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span=20
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separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: =
2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word"><SPAN =
class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-VARIANT: normal; WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: =
separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: =
2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word"><SPAN =
class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-VARIANT: normal; WHITE-SPACE: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: =
separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: =
2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: =
helvetica; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: =
normal"><B><I>Allen=20
  &amp; Florrie Bachelder&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =3Diii=3D&lt;<BR>Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs</I></B></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: =
helvetica; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: =
normal"><B><I>'57=20
  ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</I></B></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: =
helvetica; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: =
normal"><B><I>North=20
  Street, MI 48049,=20
  =
USA</I></B></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SP=
AN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV=
</DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN><B><I><SPAN=20
  class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12px">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</SPAN></I></B><SPAN=20
  class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; FONT-VARIANT: normal; WHITE-SPACE: =
normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; WORD-SPACING: =
0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; =
TEXT-INDENT: 0px">=20

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2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: =
rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal"><B><I><SPAN=20
  class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; =
FONT-STYLE: =
normal">****************************************************************<=
/SPAN></I></B></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV><=
/SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></=
DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SP=
AN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV=
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><SPAN class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-style-span=20
ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px">
rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">&nbsp;</DIV>
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">&nbsp;</DIV>
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><BR><BR></DIV>
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Allen</DIV>
sans-serif"></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; =
COLOR: black">Allen=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; =
COLOR: black">'57=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; =
COLOR: black"></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; =
COLOR: black">North=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; =
COLOR: =
></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif; =
COLOR: =
</DIV></DIV></DIV>
      <DIV=20
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV=20
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><BR><BR></DIV>
        <DIV class=3Dyiv1013556227MsoNormal=20
        everyone,<BR><BR>I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub stacks =
and I've=20
light=20
        scour of the internet there appears to be two types available at =
a=20
        reasonable cost:<BR>$32.50 ea -<A=20
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV>
      <DIV class=3Dyiv1013556227MsoNormal=20
0pt">&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV>____________________________________________=

/BLOCKQUOTE>
><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Wayne & Isabel Hardy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:16:03 -0600

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Well funny thing is that several automotive engineers and motor builders =
have done a lot of work with flow benches and the like, (D. Vizard for =
one) and have shown that these properly built Velocity stacks will =
INCREASE flow into the carb mouth..ie allow MORE air in, not just smooth =
it out. I don=E2=80=99t have my flow measuring devices any more, but =
don=E2=80=99t question what the engineering elves like David Vizard say =
on this matter.

From: Michael Anderson=20
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 8:58 AM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America=20
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

I respectfully disagree that more air =3D more noise by default. "Noise" =
to a mechanical engineer (or most any engineer) is an undesireable =
by-product of inefficiency, i.e. whatever is causing the noise is =
sapping energy from whatever the machine is supposed to do (unless it's =
job is to make noise). Having said that, stub stacks should reduce noise =
-all else being the same - because the efficiency of the system is =
increased.

Mike!

Michael Anderson
One of a Kind Stuff/AEU
775 772-2056

Wombat

From: Allen Bachelder=20

Curious in Michigan.

(Allen)

      Hi everyone,

      regards,
      --=20
      Robert (in NZ)

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<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY dir=3Dltr>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Well funny thing is that several automotive =
engineers and=20
motor builders have done a lot of work with flow benches and the like, =
(D.=20
Vizard for one) and have shown that these properly built Velocity stacks =
will=20
INCREASE flow into the carb mouth..ie allow MORE air in, not just smooth =
it out.=20
I don=E2=80=99t have my flow measuring devices any more, but =
don=E2=80=99t question what the=20
engineering elves like David Vizard say on this matter.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: =
inline">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Michael Anderson</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 15, 2013 8:58 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">List for the Z Magnette Group - =
North=20
America</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: =
inline">
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, =
serif; COLOR: #000; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">I=20
respectfully disagree that more air =3D more noise by default. "Noise" =
to a=20
mechanical engineer (or most any engineer) is an undesireable by-product =
of=20
inefficiency, i.e. whatever is causing the noise is sapping energy from =
whatever=20
the machine is supposed to do (unless it's job is to make noise). Having =
said=20
that, stub stacks should reduce noise -all else being the same - because =
the=20
efficiency of the system is increased.<BR>
<DIV><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>To that end, Allen opens up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs =
Bernoulli=20
is working hard for us at the piston/bridge, not the inlet throat. =
Without some=20
kind of "stack" Bernoulli is screwing with us at the carb inlet as the=20
"apparent" inlet diameter gets smaller due to the air having to make a =
hard=20
90-degreee turn... turbulence is also introduced before the =
piston/bridge which=20
is not a happy thing for nice even fuel induction.<BR><BR>Those two =
reasons are=20
what makes the mixture "change" when you put a stack on. Not more air, =
per se,=20
but quality of air flow. <BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Mike!</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Michael Anderson<BR>One of a Kind Stuff/AEU<BR>775 772-2056</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, =
serif">
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, =
serif">
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
<FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">From:</SPAN></B>=20
Wayne &amp; Isabel Hardy &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> List for the Z Magnette Group =
- North=20
America &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, November 15, 2013 =
1:19=20
AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: =
[Zmagnette]=20
Stub stacks<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3Dy_msg_container>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV id=3Dyiv1013556227><BASE>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for more =
air to the=20
inlet, then more power should always be the result. If more power is =
=E2=80=9CBetter=E2=80=9D,=20
then the answer is yes. But you must adjust for more airflow to get a =
more=20
better running motor..ie more air will need more fuel too if a result is =
to be=20
more power. Maybe a new, slightly richer needle is the ticket to heaven. =
I know=20
the K&amp;N filter people caution that their filters flow so much more =
air than=20
the usual paper ones, that a richer needle, or jet, or slight enrichment =

more inlet roar under acceleration. Is that =E2=80=9CBetter=E2=80=9D or =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank=20
ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px"><SPAN=20
ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px"><SPAN=20
ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px">=20

FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal"><B><I>Allen=20
FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal"><B><I>'57=20
FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal"><B><I>North=20

FONT-STYLE: normal"><B><I><SPAN=20
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
  the throat=E2=80=A6 I have a set of 2.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inch =
K&amp;N=E2=80=99s on my=20
  Magnette.</SPAN></DIV>
November 13,=20
  2013 12:34 PM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN=20
  class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN>List for the Z =
Magnette=20
  Group - North America<BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN=20
from APT or=20
    Rimmer better?</DIV>
black"></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
    <DIV=20
    href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs" rel=3Dnofollow=20
</DIV></DIV></DIV>
    <DIV=20
    <DIV=20
      class=3Dyiv1013556227Apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><BR>Robert =
(in=20

mailing list<BR><BR>Donate: <A href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"=20

><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Wayne & Isabel Hardy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:23:16 -0600

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Yes the short stacks will go into the air cleaners of the MGA type =
filters, or the K&Ns or the others that have a depth of over 1 1/2 =
inches. The 2 inch stacks work well in the 3 inch thick cleaners. The =
really long stacks like the 4 =E2=80=936 inchers need something akin to =
a sock over the inlet trumpet to filter out rocks and some fine bits =
too. Several folks make a sock type filter just for this application.
All this is just in fun anyway because you won=E2=80=99t gain more than =
a couple HP with the best of air inlet setups over the Magnette stock =
one.
Wombat

From: Gene deRuelle=20
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 9:26 AM
To: Michael Anderson ; List for the Z Magnette Group - North America=20
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

Gene D

  Mike!

  Michael Anderson
  One of a Kind Stuff/AEU
  775 772-2056

  Wombat

  From: Allen Bachelder=20

  Curious in Michigan.

  (Allen)

        Hi everyone,

        regards,
        --=20
        Robert (in NZ)

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<HTML><HEAD>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Yes the short stacks will go into the air cleaners =
of the MGA=20
type filters, or the K&amp;Ns or the others that have a depth of over 1 =
1/2=20
inches. The 2 inch stacks work well in the 3 inch thick cleaners. The =
really=20
long stacks like the 4 =E2=80=936 inchers need something akin to a sock =
over the inlet=20
trumpet to filter out rocks and some fine bits too. Several folks make a =
sock=20
type filter just for this application.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>All this is just in fun anyway because you =
won=E2=80=99t gain more=20
than a couple HP with the best of air inlet setups over the Magnette =
stock=20
one.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 15, 2013 9:26 AM</DIV>

  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>
      <DIV=20
</DIV></DIV></DIV>
      <DIV=20
      <DIV=20

><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: charles durning <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:18:44 -0600

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Just my 2 cents.  The extra noise from a fan or an engine is just the noise
made from  air movement.  Though our engines do make more power at
the higher rpms (thus more noise) it's actually not as efficent at
processing the air movement as it is at a slower speed.  I believe that the
most efficent engine in the world has an 8 foot stroke and maxes out at102
rpm.  It's most efficent speed is 100rpms.  That gives plenty of time to
extract all of the engergy from the fuel/air misture.  When the heater fan
is turning at 3 times the low speed it is not moving 3 times the air, just
moving more air.  Noise is just unused energy.

In my case I really don't care one way or another.  I have pancake air
filters with no air flow enhancements.  A nice throaty sound from a MG
exhaust is a plesant sound no matter how it gets there.

Charlie Durning

If you are using Google or Gmail, Big Brother is watching.

On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Wayne & Isabel Hardy <
[email-masked]> wrote:

>   Yea that sounds nice all that about efficiency, but fact of the matter
> is that the big old factory cleaner was much quieter than the small
> cleaners or just velocity stacks...more air seems to make more noise, jus=
t
> turn your garage fan from low to high speed and tell me which setting is
> loudest or sit in the car and turn the heater / ac fan up to high and
> compare it to the low setting and see which one you like best.
> The intake roar doesn=92t bother me in the least nor does a nice hum from
> the exhausting gases but some folks do not like gaseous noises from eithe=
r
> end.
>
>  *From:* Gene deRuelle <[email-masked]>
> *Sent:* Friday, November 15, 2013
> *To:* Michael Anderson <[email-masked]> ; List for the Z Magnette
> Group - North America <[email-masked]>
> *Subject:* Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
>
>  If you run the little stacks, aren't you subjecting the fuel/air mixture
an
> air cleaner, can you?
> *From:* Michael Anderson <[email-masked]>
> *To:* List for the Z Magnette Group - North America<[email-masked].=
net>
> *Sent:* Friday, November 15, 2013 6:58 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
>
to
> a mechanical engineer (or most any engineer) is an undesireable by-produc=
t
> of inefficiency, i.e. whatever is causing the noise is sapping energy fro=
m
> whatever the machine is supposed to do (unless it's job is to make noise)=
.
> Having said that, stub stacks should reduce noise -all else being the sam=
e
> To that end, Allen opens up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs Bernoull=
i
> is working hard for us at the piston/bridge, not the inlet throat. Withou=
t
> some kind of "stack" Bernoulli is screwing with us at the carb inlet as t=
he
> "apparent" inlet diameter gets smaller due to the air having to make a ha=
rd
> 90-degreee turn... turbulence is also introduced before the piston/bridge
> Those two reasons are what makes the mixture "change" when you put a stac=
k
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* Wayne & Isabel Hardy <[email-masked]>
> *To:* List for the Z Magnette Group - North America <
> [email-masked]>
> *Sent:* Friday, November 15, 2013 1:19 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
>
>   If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for more air to the inlet,
> then more power should always be the result. If more power is =93Better=
=94,
> then the answer is yes. But you must adjust for more airflow to get a mor=
e
> better running motor..ie more air will need more fuel too if a result is =
to
> be more power. Maybe a new, slightly richer needle is the ticket to heave=
n.
> I know the K&N filter people caution that their filters flow so much more
> air than the usual paper ones, that a richer needle, or jet, or slight
> enrichment adjustment may be desirable for best running.
> Of course all this extra air flow is also likely to create more inlet roa=
r
> under acceleration. Is that =93Better=94 or not???
> I personally run the MGA cleaner assemblies rather than the Magnette one
> for better access to the carb adjustment screws for keeping up with summe=
r
> 100 degree days now swinging to winter 50 - 60 degree days and the
to
> richen the mix by about 1/8th of a turn.
> MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filter for better engine life in a
> variety of dirty dusty operating situations around the world, and for mor=
e
> civilized operation in a quieter manner. Their true race motors ran with
> velocity stacks and no filters usually.
>
> Wombat
>
>  *From:* Allen Bachelder <[email-masked]>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:21 PM
> *To:* List for the Z Magnette Group - North America<[email-masked].=
net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
>
> I'm cautiously venturing beyond my paygrade here, but are we not talking
> about the Bernoulli Principle: stating that as air enters a conical tube
> the air pressure is maximized, but as the tube diameter conically
> diminishes, air pressure decreases as air speed increases inside the carb=
.
> Without a conical stub stack, there is no acceleration in the air enterin=
g
> the carb inlet.  How much lift would we get from a cross-sectionally flat
> airplane wing-top with a squared-off leading edge?
>
> That being said, how can the original Magnette intake plenum perform any
I
> would think they would be Bernoullian disasters.  Would a Magnette engine
> always run better with stub stacks rather than the original plenum?
>
> Curious in Michigan.
>
> (Allen)
>   ******************************************************************
>
> *Allen & Florrie Bachelder       =3Diii=3D<Spring Creek Home for Wayward =
MGs*
> *'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT*
> *North Street, MI 48049, USA*
> *http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs
> <http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs>*
>
> ******************************************************************
>
>   Depending on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a bit
> of a ram effect which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as in
> longer runners means more torque while shorter ones mean more power.  Not
> lots, but it all contributes to a freer flowing intake which helps your
> freer flowing exhaust to make a bit more power/torque and slightly better
> fuel economy.  You note vintage racers usually have anywhere from2.5 to 6
> inch stacks. Some with a stocking for a coarse filter, most just hoping
> nothing of consequence enters the throat=85 I have a set of 2.25 inch sta=
cks
> in my 3.25 inch K&N=92s on my MGB and they seem to help. Just the ho hum
> stock setup on my Magnette.
>
>  *From:* [email-masked] [mailto:
> [email-masked]] *On Behalf Of *Richard Greenberg
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:34 PM
> *To:* List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
> *Subject:* Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
>
>   ******************************************************************
>
> *Allen & Florrie Bachelder       =3Diii=3D<Spring Creek Home for Wayward =
MGs*
>  *'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT*
>  *North Street, MI 48049, USA*
> *http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs
> <http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs>*
>           ***************************************************************=
*
SU%20HS4.aspx
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>  ------------------------------
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>  ------------------------------
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>  ------------------------------
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]
>
>
>

--089e0118293a8506a904eb3b3a5b
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div>Just my 2 cents.=A0 The extra noise from a fan or an engine is just th=
e noise made from=A0 air movement.=A0 Though our engines do make more power=
 at the=A0higher=A0rpms (thus more noise) it&#39;s actually not as efficent=
 at processing the air movement=A0as it is at a slower speed.=A0 I believe =
that the most efficent engine in the world has an 8 foot stroke=A0and maxes=
 out at102 rpm.=A0 It&#39;s most efficent speed is 100rpms.=A0 That=A0gives=
 plenty of time to extract all of the engergy from the fuel/air misture.=A0=
 When the heater fan is turning at 3 times the low speed it is not moving 3=
 times the air, just moving more air.=A0 Noise is just unused energy.=A0</d=
iv>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>In my case I really don&#39;t care one way or another.=A0 I have panca=
ke air filters with no air flow enhancements.=A0 A nice throaty sound from =
a MG exhaust is a plesant sound no matter how it gets there.<br clear=3D"al=
l">
=A0</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Charlie Durning</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div><font size=3D"4">If you are using Google or Gmail, Big Brother is watc=
hing.</font></div>
<div>=A0</div></div></div><br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Wayne &amp; Is=
abel Hardy <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Calibri&#39;;FONT-SIZE:14pt">
<div><font size=3D"4">Yea that sounds nice all that about efficiency, but f=
act of the matter is that the big old factory cleaner was much quieter than=
 the small cleaners or just velocity stacks...more air seems to make more n=
oise, just turn your garage fan from low to high speed and tell me which se=
tting is loudest or sit in the car and turn the heater / ac fan up to high =
and compare it to the low setting and see which one you like best.</font></=
div>

<div><font size=3D"4">The intake roar doesn=92t bother me in the least nor =
does a nice hum from the exhausting gases but some folks do not like gaseou=
s noises from either end.</font></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Calibri&#39=
;;FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none">
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div><font size=3D"4" face=3D"Calibri"></font>=A0</div>
<div style=3D"BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:deruelle@att=
.net" target=3D"_blank">Gene deRuelle</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 15, 2013 </div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:mjamgb@sbc=
global.net" target=3D"_blank">Michael Anderson</a> ; <a title=3D"zmagnette@=
autox.team.net" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
List for the Z Magnette Group - North America</a> </div>

<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</div></div></div>
<div>=A0</div></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Calibri&#39=
;;FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none">
<div><font face=3D"Arial">If you run the little stacks, aren&#39;t you subj=
ecting the fuel/air mixture to whatever is IN the air?=A0 In other words, y=
ou can&#39;t run the stacks and an air cleaner, can you?</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"></font>=A0</div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">Gene D</font></div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING=
-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b> <a title=3D"=
[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank=
">Michael Anderson</a> </div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked].=
net" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">List for th=
e Z Magnette Group - North America</a> </div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 15, 2013 6:58 =
AM</div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks<=
/div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new york,times,serif;FONT-SIZE:12=
pt">I respectfully disagree that more air =3D more noise by default. &quot;=
Noise&quot; to a mechanical engineer (or most any engineer) is an undesirea=
ble by-product of inefficiency, i.e. whatever is causing the noise is sappi=
ng energy from whatever the machine is supposed to do (unless it&#39;s job =
is to make noise). Having said that, stub stacks should reduce noise -all e=
lse being the same - because the efficiency of the system is increased.<br>

<div><span><br></span></div>
<div>To that end, Allen opens up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs Berno=
ulli is working hard for us at the piston/bridge, not the inlet throat. Wit=
hout some kind of &quot;stack&quot; Bernoulli is screwing with us at the ca=
rb inlet as the &quot;apparent&quot; inlet diameter gets smaller due to the=
 air having to make a hard 90-degreee turn... turbulence is also introduced=
 before the piston/bridge which is not a happy thing for nice even fuel ind=
uction.<br>
<br>Those two reasons are what makes the mixture &quot;change&quot; when yo=
u put a stack on. Not more air, per se, but quality of air flow. <br></div>
<div><br>Mike!</div>
<div><br><br></div>
<div>Michael Anderson<br>One of a Kind Stuff/AEU<br><a href=3D"tel:775%2077=
2-2056" target=3D"_blank" value=3D"+17757722056">775 772-2056</a></div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new york,times,serif;FONT-SIZE:12=
pt">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new york,times,serif;FONT-SIZE:12=
pt">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<hr size=3D"1">
<font face=3D"Arial"><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:bold">From:</span></b> W=
ayne &amp; Isabel Hardy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targe=
t=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGH=
T:bold">To:</span></b> List for the Z Magnette Group - North America &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">zmagnette@autox=
.team.net</a>&gt; <br>
<b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, November 15, 2=
013 1:19 AM<br><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: =
[Zmagnette] Stub stacks<br></font></div>
<div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Calibri&#39;;FONT-SIZE:14pt">
<div><font size=3D"4">If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for more a=
ir to the inlet, then more power should always be the result. If more power=
 is =93Better=94, then the answer is yes. But you must adjust for more airf=
low to get a more better running motor..ie more air will need more fuel too=
 if a result is to be more power. Maybe a new, slightly richer needle is th=
e ticket to heaven. I know the K&amp;N filter people caution that their fil=
ters flow so much more air than the usual paper ones, that a richer needle,=
 or jet, or slight enrichment adjustment may be desirable for best running.=
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"4">Of course all this extra air flow is also likely to c=
reate more inlet roar under acceleration. Is that =93Better=94 or not???</f=
ont></div>
<div><font size=3D"4">I personally run the MGA cleaner assemblies rather th=
an the Magnette one for better access to the carb adjustment screws for kee=
ping up with summer 100 degree days now swinging to winter 50 - 60 degree d=
ays and the resultant changes in idle speeds due to cooler, denser air, and=
 the need to richen the mix by about 1/8th of a turn.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"4">MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filter for better=
 engine life in a variety of dirty dusty operating situations around the wo=
rld, and for more civilized operation in a quieter manner. Their true race =
motors ran with velocity stacks and no filters usually.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"4"></font>=A0</div>
<div><font size=3D"4">Wombat</font></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Calibri&#39=
;;FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none">
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div>=A0</div>
<div style=3D"BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:bachldrs=
@comcast.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">Allen Bachelder</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:21 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:zmagne=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">List for the Z Magne=
tte Group - North America</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</div></div></div>
<div>=A0</div></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Calibri&#39=
;;FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none">I&#39;m cautious=
ly venturing beyond my paygrade here, but are we not talking about the Bern=
oulli Principle: stating that as air enters a conical tube the air pressure=
 is maximized, but as the tube diameter conically diminishes, air pressure =
decreases as air speed increases inside the carb.=A0 Without a conical stub=
 stack, there is no acceleration in the air entering the carb inlet.=A0 How=
 much lift would we get from a cross-sectionally flat airplane wing-top wit=
h a squared-off leading edge?=20
<div>=A0</div>
<div>That being said, how can the original Magnette intake plenum perform a=
ny of this function? Same question for the intake plenums on T-series cars.=
 I would think they would be Bernoullian disasters.=A0 Would a Magnette eng=
ine always run better with stub stacks rather than the original plenum?</di=
v>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>Curious in Michigan.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>(Allen)</div>
<div>
<div><span style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:sep=
arate;FONT:medium helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-S=
PACING:0px"><span style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLA=
PSE:separate;FONT:medium helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal=
;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT=
-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT:medium helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:norm=
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ne;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT:medium helvetica;WHITE-SPA=
CE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT=
-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT:medium helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:norm=
al;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12px"><b><i>**=
**************************************************************</i></b></spa=
n><span style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separa=
te;FONT:medium helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPAC=
ING:0px">=20
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
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G:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACIN=
G:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACIN=
G:0px">
<div><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:nor=
mal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPAC=
ING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
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TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
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<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WORD-WRAP:break-word;=
COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i>Allen &amp; Florr=
ie Bachelder=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =3Diii=3D&lt;<br>Spring Creek Home for Waywa=
rd MGs</i></b></div>

<div style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WORD-WRAP:break-word;=
COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i>&#39;57 ZB, &#39;=
65 B, &#39;69 C/GT, &#39;73 B/GT</i></b></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WORD-WRAP:break-word;=
COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i>North Street, MI =
48049, USA</i></b></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div=
</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></d=
iv></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span>=
</div></span></div></span></div></span><b><i><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12px"=
><a href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b><span style=
=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:=
0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTE=
R-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">=20
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACIN=
G:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACIN=
G:0px">
<div><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:nor=
mal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPAC=
ING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
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<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-=
TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate=
;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;WORD-WRAP:break-word;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-=
WEIGHT:normal"><b><i><span style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica=
;FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal">***************************************=
*************************</span></i></b></div>
</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></d=
iv></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span>=
</div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div>
</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span></div></s=
pan></span></div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>
<div>On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:33 PM, John Park wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><span style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0p=
x;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT:medium helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-=
SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(3=
1,73,125);FONT-SIZE:11pt">Depending on length it can produce a much smoothe=
r flow, some say a bit of a ram effect which increases power and torque . L=
onger stacks as in longer runners means more torque while shorter ones mean=
 more power.=A0 Not lots, but it all contributes to a freer flowing intake =
which helps your freer flowing exhaust to make a bit more power/torque and =
slightly better fuel economy.=A0 You note vintage racers usually have anywh=
ere from2.5 to 6 inch stacks. Some with a stocking for a coarse filter, mos=
t just hoping nothing of consequence enters the throat=85 I have a set of 2=
.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inch K&amp;N=92s on my MGB and they seem to help=
. Just the ho hum stock setup on my Magnette.</span></div>

<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(3=
1,73,125);FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span>=A0</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE:none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;BORDER-RIGHT-STYL=
E:none;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-LEFT-STYLE:none;BORDER-TOP=
:rgb(225,225,225) 1pt solid;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif;FONT-SIZ=
E:11pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif;FONT-=
SIZE:11pt"><span>=A0</span><a style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline=
" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><span>=A0</span>[mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">zmagnett=
[email-masked]</a>]<span>=A0</span><b>On Behalf Of<span>=A0</span=
></b>Richard Greenberg<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span>=A0</span>Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:34 PM<br><b>To:=
</b><span>=A0</span>List for the Z Magnette Group - North America<br><b>Sub=
ject:</b><span>=A0</span>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</span></div></div></di=
v>

<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt">=A0</div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt">What is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that li=
es closer to the engine than a regular pancake filter?</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt">=A0</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt">On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:</div>=
</div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><br><br></div>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-TOP:5pt;MARGIN-BOTTOM:5pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt">I&#39;ve always just used the item #54 from the Moss cata=
log:<span>=A0</span><a style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline" href=
=3D"http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#t=
op" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewP=
roducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#top</a><span>=A0</span> Are these from AP=
T or Rimmer better?</div>

<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt">=A0</div></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt">Always anxious to learn...</div></div>
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<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt">Allen</div>
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<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><span><b><i><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-ser=
if;FONT-SIZE:9pt">*********************************************************=
*******</span></i></b></span><span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,san=
s-serif;FONT-SIZE:13.5pt"></span></span></div>

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<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><b><i><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;COL=
OR:black;FONT-SIZE:9pt">Allen &amp; Florrie Bachelder=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =3D=
iii=3D&lt;<br>Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs</span></i></b><span style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE:9pt"></span></div>
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<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><b><i><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;COL=
OR:black;FONT-SIZE:9pt">&#39;57 ZB, &#39;65 B, &#39;69 C/GT, &#39;73 B/GT</=
span></i></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:9pt"=
></span></div>
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<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><b><i><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;COL=
OR:black;FONT-SIZE:9pt">North Street, MI 48049, USA</span></i></b><span sty=
le=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:9pt"></span></div>
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></d=
iv></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><span><b><i><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-ser=
if;FONT-SIZE:9pt"><a style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline" href=3D=
"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b></span>=
<span><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE:13.5pt"></span></span></div>

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f;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;COL=
OR:black;FONT-SIZE:9pt">***************************************************=
*************</span></span><span></span></div>
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></d=
iv></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt">=A0</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt">On Nov 13, 2013, at 4:10 AM,<span>=A0</span><a style=3D"C=
OLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><span>=A0</=
span>wrote:</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><br><br></div>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-TOP:5pt;MARGIN-BOTTOM:5pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 12pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,ser=
if;FONT-SIZE:12pt">Hi everyone,<br><br>I&#39;d like to get a pair of 1.5&qu=
ot; H4 stub stacks and I&#39;ve tried emailing Steve Ash several times to s=
ee if he would make some more, but I haven&#39;t got an answer from him.<br=
<br>So... from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two types =
available at a reasonable cost:<br>$32.50 ea -<a style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-D=
ECORATION:underline" href=3D"http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Bille=
t%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank=
">http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20=
SU%20HS4.aspx</a><br>
$57 pair -<span>=A0</span><a style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline"=
 href=3D"http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT" rel=3D"nofollow" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT</a><br><br>I&=
#39;ve excluded the K&amp;N ones as they are very rough, by all accounts.<b=
r>
Are there any others that people would recommend?<br><br>They&#39;re going =
to fit inside K&amp;N filters that are 2 1/8&quot; thick.<br><br>regards,<b=
r>--<span>=A0</span><br>Robert (in NZ)<br>_________________________________=
______________<br>
Zmagnette mailing list<br><br>Donate:<span>=A0</span><a style=3D"COLOR:blue=
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</div></blockquote></div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,seri=
f;FONT-SIZE:12pt">=A0</div></div></div>
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if;FONT-SIZE:12pt">_______________________________________________<br>Zmagn=
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an/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]</a><br>
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<div>=A0</div></div>
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<hr>
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<p>
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[email-masked]</a><br>
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From: Kelvin Dodd <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:26:00 -0800

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From: Allen Bachelder <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 14:03:11 -0500

--===============2061159688==

--Apple-Mail-39-360581779
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Are we comparing apples with oranges here?  Take an air cleaner off any =
carb and you'll hear more noise. Why? Air cleaners themselves =
absorb/insulate some sound.  And different kinds vary.  The K&Ns are =
slightly noisier than stock MGB air cleaners. I don't think that's =
because they're less efficient.  My guess is that they provide less =
acoustic insulation.=20

Kelvin - your point is well-taken. Are you saying that even if =
everything else is spot-on, it's still not worthwhile to mess with =
velocity stacks for those of us who spend most of our lives below 3500 =
rpm?
*********************************************
Allen & Florrie Bachelder
North Street, MI
[email-masked]
*********************************************

On Nov 15, 2013, at 1:18 PM, charles durning wrote:

> Just my 2 cents.  The extra noise from a fan or an engine is just the =
noise made from  air movement.  Though our engines do make more power at =
the higher rpms (thus more noise) it's actually not as efficent at =
processing the air movement as it is at a slower speed.  I believe that =
the most efficent engine in the world has an 8 foot stroke and maxes out =
at102 rpm.  It's most efficent speed is 100rpms.  That gives plenty of =
time to extract all of the engergy from the fuel/air misture.  When the =
heater fan is turning at 3 times the low speed it is not moving 3 times =
the air, just moving more air.  Noise is just unused energy.=20
> =20
> In my case I really don't care one way or another.  I have pancake air =
filters with no air flow enhancements.  A nice throaty sound from a MG =
exhaust is a plesant sound no matter how it gets there.
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Wayne & Isabel Hardy =
> The intake roar doesn=92t bother me in the least nor does a nice hum =
from the exhausting gases but some folks do not like gaseous noises from =
either end.
> =20
> From: Gene deRuelle
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013
> To: Michael Anderson ; List for the Z Magnette Group - North America

--Apple-Mail-39-360581779
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	charset=windows-1252

<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Are =
we comparing apples with oranges here? &nbsp;Take an air cleaner off any =
carb and you'll hear more noise. Why? Air cleaners themselves =
absorb/insulate some sound. &nbsp;And different kinds vary. &nbsp;The =
K&amp;Ns are slightly noisier than stock MGB air cleaners. I don't think =
that's because they're less efficient. &nbsp;My guess is that they =
provide less acoustic insulation.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>Kelvin - your =
point is well-taken. Are you saying that even if everything else is =
spot-on, it's still not worthwhile to mess with velocity stacks for =
those of us who spend most of our lives below 3500 rpm?<br><div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; =
">*********************************************</div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Allen &amp; Florrie =
Bachelder<br>North Street, MI</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>*********=
************************************<br><br></div></span></div></span></sp=
an>
</div>
<br><div><div>On Nov 15, 2013, at 1:18 PM, charles durning =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>Just my 2 cents.&nbsp; The extra noise from a fan or =
an engine is just the noise made from&nbsp; air movement.&nbsp; Though =
our engines do make more power at the&nbsp;higher&nbsp;rpms (thus more =
noise) it's actually not as efficent at processing the air =
movement&nbsp;as it is at a slower speed.&nbsp; I believe that the most =
efficent engine in the world has an 8 foot stroke&nbsp;and maxes out =
at102 rpm.&nbsp; It's most efficent speed is 100rpms.&nbsp; =
That&nbsp;gives plenty of time to extract all of the engergy from the =
fuel/air misture.&nbsp; When the heater fan is turning at 3 times the =
low speed it is not moving 3 times the air, just moving more air.&nbsp; =
Noise is just unused energy.&nbsp;</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>In my case I really don't care one way or another.&nbsp; I have =
pancake air filters with no air flow enhancements.&nbsp; A nice throaty =
sound from a MG exhaust is a plesant sound no matter how it gets =
there.<br clear=3D"all">
&nbsp;</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Charlie Durning</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font size=3D"4">If you are using Google or Gmail, Big Brother is =
watching.</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div></div></div><br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Wayne &amp; =
Isabel Hardy <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:14pt">
<div><font size=3D"4">Yea that sounds nice all that about efficiency, =
but fact of the matter is that the big old factory cleaner was much =
quieter than the small cleaners or just velocity stacks...more air seems =
to make more noise, just turn your garage fan from low to high speed and =
tell me which setting is loudest or sit in the car and turn the heater / =
ac fan up to high and compare it to the low setting and see which one =
you like best.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"4">The intake roar doesn=92t bother me in the least =
nor does a nice hum from the exhausting gases but some folks do not like =
gaseous noises from either end.</font></div>
<div =
style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:=
small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none">
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div><font size=3D"4" face=3D"Calibri"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Gene deRuelle</a> =
</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 15, 2013 </div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Michael =
Anderson</a> ; <a title=3D"[email-masked]" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">List for the =
Z Magnette Group - North America</a> </div>

<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</div></div></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div></div>
<div =
style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:=
small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none">
<div><font face=3D"Arial">If you run the little stacks, aren't you =
subjecting the fuel/air mixture to whatever is IN the air?&nbsp; In =
other words, you can't run the stacks and an air cleaner, can =
you?</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">Gene D</font></div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px =
solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px"=
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b> <a =
title=3D"[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">Michael Anderson</a> </div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a =
title=3D"[email-masked]" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">List for the =
Z Magnette Group - North America</a> </div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 15, 2013 =
6:58 AM</div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub =
stacks</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new =
york,times,serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">I respectfully disagree that more air =3D=
 more noise by default. "Noise" to a mechanical engineer (or most any =
engineer) is an undesireable by-product of inefficiency, i.e. whatever =
is causing the noise is sapping energy from whatever the machine is =
supposed to do (unless it's job is to make noise). Having said that, =
stub stacks should reduce noise -all else being the same - because the =
efficiency of the system is increased.<br>

<div><span><br></span></div>
<div>To that end, Allen opens up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs =
Bernoulli is working hard for us at the piston/bridge, not the inlet =
throat. Without some kind of "stack" Bernoulli is screwing with us at =
the carb inlet as the "apparent" inlet diameter gets smaller due to the =
air having to make a hard 90-degreee turn... turbulence is also =
introduced before the piston/bridge which is not a happy thing for nice =
even fuel induction.<br>
<br>Those two reasons are what makes the mixture "change" when you put a =
stack on. Not more air, per se, but quality of air flow. <br></div>
<div><br>Mike!</div>
<div><br><br></div>
<div>Michael Anderson<br>One of a Kind Stuff/AEU<br><a =
href=3D"tel:775%20772-2056" target=3D"_blank" value=3D"+17757722056">775 =
772-2056</a></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new =
york,times,serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new =
york,times,serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<hr size=3D"1">
<font face=3D"Arial"><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:bold">From:</span></b> =
Wayne &amp; Isabel Hardy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b><span =
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:bold">To:</span></b> List for the Z Magnette Group =
- North America &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br>
<b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, November =
15, 2013 1:19 AM<br><b><span =
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub =
stacks<br></font></div>
<div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:14pt">
<div><font size=3D"4">If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for =
more air to the inlet, then more power should always be the result. If =
more power is =93Better=94, then the answer is yes. But you must adjust =
for more airflow to get a more better running motor..ie more air will =
need more fuel too if a result is to be more power. Maybe a new, =
slightly richer needle is the ticket to heaven. I know the K&amp;N =
filter people caution that their filters flow so much more air than the =
usual paper ones, that a richer needle, or jet, or slight enrichment =
adjustment may be desirable for best running.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"4">Of course all this extra air flow is also likely =
to create more inlet roar under acceleration. Is that =93Better=94 or =
not???</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"4">I personally run the MGA cleaner assemblies rather =
than the Magnette one for better access to the carb adjustment screws =
for keeping up with summer 100 degree days now swinging to winter 50 - =
60 degree days and the resultant changes in idle speeds due to cooler, =
denser air, and the need to richen the mix by about 1/8th of a =
turn.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"4">MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filter for =
better engine life in a variety of dirty dusty operating situations =
around the world, and for more civilized operation in a quieter manner. =
Their true race motors ran with velocity stacks and no filters =
usually.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"4"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font size=3D"4">Wombat</font></div>
<div =
style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:=
small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none">
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">Allen Bachelder</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:21 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">List for the Z Magnette Group - North America</a> =
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</div></div></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div></div>
<div =
style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:=
small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none">I'm cautiously venturing =
beyond my paygrade here, but are we not talking about the Bernoulli =
Principle: stating that as air enters a conical tube the air pressure is =
maximized, but as the tube diameter conically diminishes, air pressure =
decreases as air speed increases inside the carb.&nbsp; Without a =
conical stub stack, there is no acceleration in the air entering the =
carb inlet.&nbsp; How much lift would we get from a cross-sectionally =
flat airplane wing-top with a squared-off leading edge?=20
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>That being said, how can the original Magnette intake plenum =
perform any of this function? Same question for the intake plenums on =
T-series cars. I would think they would be Bernoullian disasters.&nbsp; =
Would a Magnette engine always run better with stub stacks rather than =
the original plenum?</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Curious in Michigan.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>(Allen)</div>
<div>
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style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT=
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helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px"><span=
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<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span =
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<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12px"><b><i>*******************************************=
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style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT=
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NDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:norma=
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l;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span =
style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-I=
NDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:norma=
l;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span =
style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-I=
NDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:norma=
l;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span =
style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-I=
NDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:norma=
l;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span =
style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-I=
NDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:norma=
l;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div =
style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WORD-WRAP:break-word;COLO=
R:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i>Allen &amp; =
Florrie Bachelder&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
=3Diii=3D&lt;<br>Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs</i></b></div>

<div =
style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WORD-WRAP:break-word;COLO=
R:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i>'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 =
C/GT, '73 B/GT</i></b></div>
<div =
style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WORD-WRAP:break-word;COLO=
R:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i>North Street, MI =
48049, =
USA</i></b></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div>
=
</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></=
div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></spa=
n></div></span></div></span></div></span><b><i><span =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12px"><a =
href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></=
i></b><span =
style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-I=
NDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:norma=
l;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">=20
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NDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:norma=
l;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span =
style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-I=
NDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:norma=
l;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span =
style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-I=
NDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:norma=
l;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span =
style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-I=
NDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:norma=
l;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span =
style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-I=
NDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:norma=
l;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span =
style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-I=
NDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:norma=
l;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div =
style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;WORD-WRAP:break-word;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIG=
HT:normal"><b><i><span =
style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGH=
T:normal">****************************************************************=
</span></i></b></div>
=
</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></=
div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></spa=
n></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div>
=
</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span></div></=
span></span></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>
<div>On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:33 PM, John Park wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT=
:medium =
helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><span =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(31,73,125);FONT-SIZE:11p=
t">Depending on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a =
bit of a ram effect which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as =
in longer runners means more torque while shorter ones mean more =
power.&nbsp; Not lots, but it all contributes to a freer flowing intake =
which helps your freer flowing exhaust to make a bit more power/torque =
and slightly better fuel economy.&nbsp; You note vintage racers usually =
have anywhere from2.5 to 6 inch stacks. Some with a stocking for a =
coarse filter, most just hoping nothing of consequence enters the =
throat=85 I have a set of 2.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inch K&amp;N=92s =
on my MGB and they seem to help. Just the ho hum stock setup on my =
Magnette.</span></div>

<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><span =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(31,73,125);FONT-SIZE:11p=
t"></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div>
<div =
style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE:none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE:no=
ne;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-LEFT-STYLE:none;BORDER-TOP:rg=
b(225,225,225) 1pt solid;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><b><span =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:11pt">From:</span></b><s=
pan =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><span>&nbsp;</span=
><a style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><span>&nbsp;</span>[=
mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>]<span>&nbsp;</span>=
<b>On Behalf Of<span>&nbsp;</span></b>Richard Greenberg<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span>&nbsp;</span>Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:34 =
PM<br><b>To:</b><span>&nbsp;</span>List for the Z Magnette Group - North =
America<br><b>Subject:</b><span>&nbsp;</span>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub =
stacks</span></div></div></div>

<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">What is a stub stack? Would it allow for a =
filter that lies closer to the engine than a regular pancake =
filter?</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">&nbsp;</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Allen =
Bachelder wrote:</div></div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><br><br></div>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-TOP:5pt;MARGIN-BOTTOM:5pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">I've always just used the item #54 from the =
Moss catalog:<span>&nbsp;</span><a =
style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline" =
href=3D"http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28=
996#top" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIn=
dexID=3D28996#top</a><span>&nbsp;</span> Are these from APT or Rimmer =
better?</div>

<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">&nbsp;</div></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">Always anxious to learn...</div></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">Allen</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><span><b><i><span =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:9pt">*****************=
***********************************************</span></i></b></span><span=
><span =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13.5pt"></span></span>=
</div>

<div>
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><b><i><span =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:black;FONT-SIZE:9pt">Allen=
 &amp; Florrie Bachelder&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
=3Diii=3D&lt;<br>Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs</span></i></b><span =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE:9pt"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><b><i><span =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:black;FONT-SIZE:9pt">'57 =
ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</span></i></b><span =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:9pt"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><b><i><span =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:black;FONT-SIZE:9pt">North=
 Street, MI 48049, USA</span></i></b><span =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:9pt"></span></div>
=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><span><b><i><span =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:9pt"><a =
style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline" =
href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></=
i></b></span><span><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE:13.5pt"></span></span></div>

<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
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<div>
<div>
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<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><span><span =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:black;FONT-SIZE:9pt">*****=
***********************************************************</span></span><=
span></span></div>
=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">&nbsp;</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">On Nov 13, 2013, at 4:10 =
AM,<span>&nbsp;</span><a style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><span>&nbsp;</span>wrote:</di=
v>
</div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><br><br></div>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-TOP:5pt;MARGIN-BOTTOM:5pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"MARGIN:0in 0in 12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New =
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">Hi everyone,<br><br>I'd like to get a pair =
of 1.5" H4 stub stacks and I've tried emailing Steve Ash several times =
to see if he would make some more, but I haven't got an answer from =
him.<br>
<br>So... from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two =
types available at a reasonable cost:<br>$32.50 ea -<a =
style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline" =
href=3D"http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20S=
tack%20SU%20HS4.aspx" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%=
20Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx</a><br>
$57 pair -<span>&nbsp;</span><a =
style=3D"COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline" =
href=3D"http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT</a><br><br=
>I've excluded the K&amp;N ones as they are very rough, by all =
accounts.<br>
Are there any others that people would recommend?<br><br>They're going =
to fit inside K&amp;N filters that are 2 1/8" =
thick.<br><br>regards,<br>--<span>&nbsp;</span><br>Robert (in =
NZ)<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:55:02 +1300

On 16.11.2013 08:03, Allen Bachelder wrote:
> The K&Ns are
> slightly noisier than stock MGB air cleaners. I don't think that's
> because they're less efficient. My guess is that they provide less
> acoustic insulation.

I'd agree with this - there is a lot of material in an oil-bath filter 
and a substantial metal container.

> Kelvin - your point is well-taken. Are you saying that even if
> everything else is spot-on, it's still not worthwhile to mess with
> velocity stacks for those of us who spend most of our lives below 
> 3500
> rpm?

Barney Gaylord has a section on stub-stacks at his website:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/power/pp104.htm

Interesting commments from one of the MGA crew:

"Just been for a 25 mile drive to road test them, and the throttle 
response, in top gear particularly, is very noticeable over 2000 rpm. It 
makes the 40 to 60 mph acceleration noticeably better and more fun to 
drive".

Another had a book with figures for the factory installed stub 
stack/backplate on the MGB - made a 5% improvement and BMC were stingy 
with unnecessary parts!

I would certainly agree that I wouldn't pop a pair of these on until 
you've got the ignition working well and SUs balanced, tappet clearances 
set etc.

regards,

---

From: Arch Boston <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:37:56 -0500

Many years ago when MGAs were new cars Road and Track Magazine did a DIY article on a ram air set up.  I no longer have the magazine.  Not the same thing as stacks but related.  That was a terrific magazine in the 50's and 60's.  Anyone else remember the article?  Arch

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 15, 2013, at 3:55 PM, [email-masked] wrote:

> I'd agree with this - there is a lot of material in an oil-bath filter and a substantial metal container.
> 
> 
>> velocity stacks for those of us who spend most of our lives below 3500
>> rpm?
> 
> "Just been for a 25 mile drive to road test them, and the throttle response, in top gear particularly, is very noticeable over 2000 rpm. It makes the 40 to 60 mph acceleration noticeably better and more fun to drive".
> 
> Another had a book with figures for the factory installed stub stack/backplate on the MGB - made a 5% improvement and BMC were stingy with unnecessary parts!
> 
> I would certainly agree that I wouldn't pop a pair of these on until you've got the ignition working well and SUs balanced, tappet clearances set etc.
> 
> regards,
> -- 
> Robert
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]
>

---

From: "Wayne & Isabel Hardy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:27:15 -0600

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Kelvin,
Years ago I made a nice little cold air ram box for my MGA after seeing =
the one on the LeMans Healey 100. Made mine from a Radio Shack aluminum =
box chassis with a aluminum plate screwed on the back. Worked like a =
charm and I even had a little Brillo pad type air strainer in the =
section of the radiator mounting plate where the hose went through. Just =
put a screen on the metal, filled the area with steel wool, and screened =
up the other side before mounting the hose. I used the heater air hose =
sized stuff so it would mount up nice and easy. I found that the =
increased air pressure in the carbs tended to lift the floats and shut =
off the gas flow until I routed the little overflow pipes from the carb =
float chambers into the ram air box. That seemed to equalize =
things.....Gosh this was in about 19ought 59 I was doing this stuff to =
go a tiny bit faster. I used  little short about 3/4 inch long  velocity =
stacks as I remember, inside the cold air box.

Wombat

From: Kelvin Dodd=20
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 12:26 PM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America=20
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

The point is that if you smooth out the air flow at the transition from =
filter plate to carburetor throat, more air can pass since there is less =
effective constriction caused by the edge affected air flow.=20

=20

On this note. Once you do have your MG engines tuned up and happy. Moss =
has been working on a cold air intake with integral ram pipe design that =
was recently approved for production.=20

=20

This was primarily developed for the MGA and MGB, but would probably fit =
nicely on a Magnette.  I=E2=80=99ll get more information to the list =
when the project is finalized.=20

=20

Kelvin.=20

=20

=20

From: [email-masked] =
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Wayne & Isabel =
Hardy
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 9:16 AM
To: Michael Anderson; List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

=20

=20

=20

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<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Kelvin,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Years ago I made a nice little cold air ram box for =
my MGA=20
after seeing the one on the LeMans Healey 100. Made mine from a Radio =
Shack=20
aluminum box chassis with a aluminum plate screwed on the back. Worked =
like a=20
charm and I even had a little Brillo pad type air strainer in the =
section of the=20
radiator mounting plate where the hose went through. Just put a screen =
on the=20
metal, filled the area with steel wool, and screened up the other side =
before=20
mounting the hose. I used the heater air hose sized stuff so it would =
mount up=20
nice and easy. I found that the increased air pressure in the carbs =
tended to=20
lift the floats and shut off the gas flow until I routed the little =
overflow=20
pipes from the carb float chambers into the ram air box. That seemed to =
equalize=20
things.....Gosh this was in about 19ought 59 I was doing this stuff to =
go a tiny=20
bit faster. I used&nbsp; little short about 3/4 inch long&nbsp; velocity =
stacks=20
as I remember, inside the cold air box.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Wombat</FONT></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: =
inline">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV><FONT size=3D4 face=3DCalibri></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Kelvin Dodd</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 15, 2013 12:26 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">List for the Z Magnette Group - =
North=20
America</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: =
inline">
<DIV class=3DWordSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: =
#1f497d">The=20
point is that if you smooth out the air flow at the transition from =
filter plate=20
to carburetor throat, more air can pass since there is less effective=20
constriction caused by the edge affected air flow. =
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: =
#1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: =
#1f497d">On=20
this note. Once you do have your MG engines tuned up and happy. Moss has =
been=20
working on a cold air intake with integral ram pipe design that was =
recently=20
approved for production. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: =
#1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: =
#1f497d">This=20
was primarily developed for the MGA and MGB, but would probably fit =
nicely on a=20
Magnette.&nbsp; I=E2=80=99ll get more information to the list when the =
project is=20
finalized. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: =
#1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: =
#1f497d">Kelvin.=20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: =
#1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: =
#1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; =
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<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">=20
[email-masked] =
[mailto:[email-masked]] <B>On=20
Behalf Of </B>Wayne &amp; Isabel Hardy<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November =
15, 2013=20
9:16 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Michael Anderson; List for the Z Magnette Group - =
North=20
America<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub=20
stacks<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p></o:p>&nbsp;</P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: =
black">Well=20
funny thing is that several automotive engineers and motor builders have =
done a=20
lot of work with flow benches and the like, (D. Vizard for one) and have =
shown=20
that these properly built Velocity stacks will INCREASE flow into the =
carb=20
mouth..ie allow MORE air in, not just smooth it out. I don=E2=80=99t =
have my flow=20
measuring devices any more, but don=E2=80=99t question what the =
engineering elves like=20
David Vizard say on this matter.</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: =
black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: =
black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: =
black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN>&nbsp;</P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
_______________________________________________<BR>Zmagnette mailing=20
list<BR><BR>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<BR>Archive:=20
http://www.team.net/forums<BR>Unsubscribe/Manage:=20
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]<BR=
><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: Kelvin Dodd <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 15:28:05 -0800

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Allen.

First off they are pricey.

There are two types of stub stack available for the 1.5" SU. Cast and machi=
ned. I've not been impressed with the design of the cast ones which run abo=
ut $20 each. The machined ones look like they will do the job, but run abou=
t $32 each.
APT offers both types: http://www.aptfast.com/ListItems/SubCategory/SU%20Ca=
rburetors/Stub%20Stacks%20and%20Ram%20Pipes.aspx

Second.

At lower rpm the carburetor piston offers more flow blockage than poor flui=
d dynamics at the air filter plate. At WOT, it's a different matter.

There are no doubt all kinds of peaks and valleys in fluid flow during the =
dynamics of accelerating and cruising up to 3500 rpm. I was told by one of =
my engineering teachers that anyone who professes to be an expert on fluid =
flow is a liar. He stated that it is still more of an art than a science an=
d a dark art at that. In fact, after receiving a doctorate in the field he =
determined that aircraft are kept in the air by smoke and mirrors because t=
he dynamic forces at work are too complex to be understood by the likes of =
mankind.

If you have to run a pancake style filter, then by all means use a stub sta=
ck. Before they became available for the DCOE, I used to cut down the stand=
ard long trumpets and braze them up into short stacks. They will make some =
difference, though I doubt it's going to be really noticeable.

Just work on the basics first.

Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 11:03 AM

Kelvin - your point is well-taken. Are you saying that even if everything e=
lse is spot-on, it's still not worthwhile to mess with velocity stacks for =
those of us who spend most of our lives below 3500 rpm?

--_000_4D4FABA15328FC42B1AA0DEE4673548C0188BE7523C0DREX04datac_
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Allen. <o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>First off they are pricey. <o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibr=
i","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";col=
or:#1F497D'>There are two types of stub stack available for the 1.5&#8221; =
SU. Cast and machined. I&#8217;ve not been impressed with the design of the=
 cast ones which run about $20 each. The machined ones look like they will =
do the job, but run about $32 each. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#1F497D'>APT offers both types: <a href=3D"http://www.aptfast.com/ListIte=
ms/SubCategory/SU%20Carburetors/Stub%20Stacks%20and%20Ram%20Pipes.aspx">htt=
p://www.aptfast.com/ListItems/SubCategory/SU%20Carburetors/Stub%20Stacks%20=
and%20Ram%20Pipes.aspx</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Second. <o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1F497D'>At lower rpm the carburetor piston offers more flow bl=
ockage than poor fluid dynamics at the air filter plate. At WOT, it&#8217;s=
 a different matter. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There are no doubt all =
kinds of peaks and valleys in fluid flow during the dynamics of acceleratin=
g and cruising up to 3500 rpm. I was told by one of my engineering teachers=
 that anyone who professes to be an expert on fluid flow is a liar. He stat=
ed that it is still more of an art than a science and a dark art at that. I=
n fact, after receiving a doctorate in the field he determined that aircraf=
t are kept in the air by smoke and mirrors because the dynamic forces at wo=
rk are too complex to be understood by the likes of mankind. <o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
";color:#1F497D'>If you have to run a pancake style filter, then by all mea=
ns use a stub stack. Before they became available for the DCOE, I used to c=
ut down the standard long trumpets and braze them up into short stacks. The=
y will make some difference, though I doubt it&#8217;s going to be really n=
oticeable. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Just work on the basics fir=
st. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF=
 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> zmagnette-bounce=
[email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Allen Bachelder<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 15, 2013 11:03 AM<br><=
b>To:</b> List for the Z Magnette Group - North America<br><b>Subject:</b> =
Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMso=
Normal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Kelvin - your point is well-taken. Are you =
saying that even if everything else is spot-on, it's still not worthwhile t=
o mess with velocity stacks for those of us who spend most of our lives bel=
ow 3500 rpm?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div>=
</div></body></html>=

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From: "Steve Kirby" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 18:58:19 -0800

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are you saying my wife is inefficient?

#2SteveK

  Mike!

  Michael Anderson
  One of a Kind Stuff/AEU
  775 772-2056

  Wombat

  From: Allen Bachelder=20

  Curious in Michigan.

  (Allen)

        Hi everyone,

        regards,
        --=20
        Robert (in NZ)

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<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23536">
<DIV>are you saying my wife is inefficient?</DIV>

</DIV></DIV></DIV>
      <DIV=20
      <DIV=20

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From: Allen Bachelder <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 00:21:39 -0500

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	charset=windows-1252

Thanks Kelvin,

And I'lll look forward to the cold air intake you have in the works.

Then can we have a discussion about why and how cold air intakes work?

Cheers,
Allen

On Nov 15, 2013, at 6:28 PM, Kelvin Dodd wrote:

> There are two types of stub stack available for the 1.5=94 SU. Cast =
and machined. I=92ve not been impressed with the design of the cast ones =
which run about $20 each. The machined ones look like they will do the =
job, but run about $32 each.
> APT offers both types: =
http://www.aptfast.com/ListItems/SubCategory/SU%20Carburetors/Stub%20Stack=
s%20and%20Ram%20Pipes.aspx
> =20
> Second.
> =20
> At lower rpm the carburetor piston offers more flow blockage than poor =
fluid dynamics at the air filter plate. At WOT, it=92s a different =
matter.
> =20
> There are no doubt all kinds of peaks and valleys in fluid flow during =
the dynamics of accelerating and cruising up to 3500 rpm. I was told by =
one of my engineering teachers that anyone who professes to be an expert =
on fluid flow is a liar. He stated that it is still more of an art than =
a science and a dark art at that. In fact, after receiving a doctorate =
in the field he determined that aircraft are kept in the air by smoke =
and mirrors because the dynamic forces at work are too complex to be =
understood by the likes of mankind.
> =20
> If you have to run a pancake style filter, then by all means use a =
stub stack. Before they became available for the DCOE, I used to cut =
down the standard long trumpets and braze them up into short stacks. =
They will make some difference, though I doubt it=92s going to be really =
noticeable. =20
> From: [email-masked] =
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Allen Bachelder

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<html><head><base href=3D"x-msg://689/"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: =
after-white-space; ">Thanks Kelvin,<div><br></div><div>And I'lll look =
forward to the cold air intake you have in the =
works.</div><div><br></div><div>Then can we have a discussion about why =
and how cold air intakes =
work?</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Allen<br><div>

<br><div><div>On Nov 15, 2013, at 6:28 PM, Kelvin Dodd wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">Allen.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">First =
off they are pricey.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">There are two types of stub stack =
available for the 1.5=94 SU. Cast and machined. I=92ve not been =
impressed with the design of the cast ones which run about $20 each. The =
machined ones look like they will do the job, but run about $32 =
each.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">APT =
offers both types:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.aptfast.com/ListItems/SubCategory/SU%20Carburetors/Stub=
%20Stacks%20and%20Ram%20Pipes.aspx" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.aptfast.com/ListItems/SubCategory/SU%20Carburetors/Stub%20Sta=
cks%20and%20Ram%20Pipes.aspx</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">Second.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">At =
lower rpm the carburetor piston offers more flow blockage than poor =
fluid dynamics at the air filter plate. At WOT, it=92s a different =
matter.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">There =
are no doubt all kinds of peaks and valleys in fluid flow during the =
dynamics of accelerating and cruising up to 3500 rpm. I was told by one =
of my engineering teachers that anyone who professes to be an expert on =
fluid flow is a liar. He stated that it is still more of an art than a =
science and a dark art at that. In fact, after receiving a doctorate in =
the field he determined that aircraft are kept in the air by smoke and =
mirrors because the dynamic forces at work are too complex to be =
understood by the likes of mankind.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">If =
you have to run a pancake style filter, then by all means use a stub =
stack. Before they became available for the DCOE, I used to cut down the =
standard long trumpets and braze them up into short stacks. They will =
make some difference, though I doubt it=92s going to be really =
noticeable. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Just =
work on the basics first.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top:=
 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-right-style: =
none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: =
initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; =
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: =
0in; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: =
0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">[email-masked]</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:zmagnette-bounces@aut=
ox.team.net]<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>On =
Behalf Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Allen =
Bachelder<br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Friday, November 15, 2013 =
11:03 AM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>List for the Z Magnette =
Group - North America<br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub =
stacks<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Kelvin - your point is =
well-taken. Are you saying that even if everything else is spot-on, it's =
still not worthwhile to mess with velocity stacks for those of us who =
spend most of our lives below 3500 rpm?<o:p></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div>_____________________________________=
__________<br>Zmagnette mailing list<br><br>Donate:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" style=3D"color: blue; =
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">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>Forums:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
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class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
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et" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]</a>=
<br><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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From: Allen Bachelder <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 00:29:21 -0500

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Well... In my case, I have to consider the parenthetical exception in =
Mike's sentence: "...(unless it's job is to make noise)".

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<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Well... In my case, I have to consider the parenthetical exception in Mike's sentence: "...<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px; ">(unless it's job is to make noise)".</span><br>
<br><div><div>On Nov 15, 2013, at 9:58 PM, Steve Kirby wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif"><br></font></blockquote>are you saying my wife is inefficient?</div><br></body></html>
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From: Fletcher Millmore <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 04:19:07 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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For the record:
I consulted extensively with Steve Gyles re the design and manufacture 
of the stub stacks for the MGA filter cans, since duplicated by Steve 
Ash and others; it is all documented in the UK board archives, though 
there were a number of private communications. What he made finally was 
almost exactly the design I suggested, less a few subtle details.

I worked from my developed understanding from years of reading and 
observation. The specific critical detail that a 1/4" entry radius would 
give near optimum results came from Vizard's flow bench tests. It should 
be noted that Vizard was testing flow entry from free air, without a 
nearby cover plate, and also, without a backplate. One startling thing 
he found was that air is drawn from behind, or below, the actual pipe 
entry, so he used a 270 degree rollover on his free air stacks. Since 
the carb configuration and space limitations on MGA establish the need 
for a backplate, the external taper was chosen to reduce the effect of a 
backplate as much as possible, giving a 90 degree plus the taper 
rollover radius.

It is my understanding that a cover plate should be more than 1.5x the 
bore diameter from the entry to avoid flow restriction. Systems with 
less clearance should compensate as much as possible; the Bristol 
engine, for instance, has very thin filter cans as a result of space 
limitations - and Bristol were aero experts without compare, so I pay 
attention. They used a "flow turner" stamped into the cover plate. Since 
Steve's goal was to make a drop in and look stock part, modifying the 
outside of the can was not on, so we did the best possible withing the 
space available. This meant reducing the thickness of the stub stack to 
the minimum possible to achieve the 1/4 radius without leaving a sharp 
or indeterminate edge at the carb bore entry, and in order to keep the 
entry as un-obscured by the cover plate as possible. Note that some of 
the comments in this thread, regarding stub stack depth versus can 
depth,  are totally out of line with this reasoning.

I did not know that Barney had posted all that info Robert linked: 
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/power/pp104.htm
Note that there are several more pages following this one, with dyno 
tests and driving impressions from numerous folk. A most valuable 
resource, thanks guys.

Vizard indicates that about 5% flow improvement can be obtained with a 
1/4" radius in his free air stacks, over a plain cut pipe. Since power 
developed is a function of air ingested, assuming reasonable fueling, it 
can be taken that power increase should be about the same as airflow 
increase. Given the various limitations (including the obstruction of 
the posts inside the MGA cans), I expected and hoped for maybe 4% 
improvement at best. Consequently, it was gratifying to find the 
measured improvements of power very near 5%, which leads to the question 
- why? The question gets bigger when we realize that the tested engine 
was not optimized for fueling, or even in very good tune.

I think the key here is in the reduction of turbulence around the jet, 
and possibly its effect on the vacuum which lifts the air piston. Note 
that dyno tests are done at full throttle, so the air piston is almost 
fully up at any reasonable test point. The unvarying reports of improved 
low speed running and throttle response indicate that improvements are 
happening well below the maximum flow range where the expected 5% 
improvement lies. If you think about it, at low throttle openings, the 
entire active region of the carb throat is within 1/4" of the bottom 
edge of the bore, the edges of this area are even closer, and in any 
event, the jet is always in this area - this is just where we might 
expect turbulence to have the greatest ans least predictable effects. 
The reported noise reductions are also an indicator of reduced 
turbulence - clean flow does not make noise, turbulent flow does.

The Bernoulli effect here is for pressure on a surface which has a fluid 
flowing across it, that would be the surface with the jet in it, and 
that pressure reduction is what pulls fuel into the airstream. If there 
is turbulent flow across the surface, that pressure drop will vary 
randomly, and so will fuel delivery: mixture will never be predictable. 
I expect there is room for some additional optimization of fueling here, 
which might well leads to further improvement in both low and high 
output situations.

At the time of the first test of Steve's parts, I suggested, or begged, 
for somebody to go down to Peter Burgess and run some part throttle 
acceleration tests. Peter's dyno has trhe capability of measuring 
transient effects very quickly, and some tests with blocked throttle 
stops might have yielded some good info here. Unfortunately, I'm not 
there, and nobody seemed interested.

I think these user reports put Kelvin's guess - "I doubt it's going to 
be really noticeable.  " out. And, for Allen and others interested in 
less than full throttle use, I'd say some attention to these details 
might be rewarded well.

While it is not possible on the T/Z plenum to get the full max throttle 
effect, some careful radius work on the inside of the plenum at the carb 
face might well give the light throttle benefits the stub stacks do. 
What you want is as close as possible to a 1/4" radius on the inside 
face of the hole, especially on the air approach side and bottom, but 
NOT introducing a step to the carb bore. I might say that there is 
nothing preventing a bit of judicious radius work on the carb bore 
itself, if you also open up the plenum/filter face to avoid the step. In 
fact, one thing I was a bit concerned about with the folk filing out 
holes was that they might introduce such a step by making fits too 
sloppy - the Gyles dimensions are the max possible for the bore in the 
stub stack, without enlarging the carb bore.

FRM

On 11/16/2013 12:21 AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:
> */****************************************************************/*
> */Allen & Florrie Bachelder   =iii=<
> Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs/*
> */'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT/*
> */North Street, MI 48049, USA/*
> */http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs/*
> */****************************************************************/*
>
>> There are two types of stub stack available for the 1.5" SU. Cast and 
>> machined. I've not been impressed with the design of the cast ones 
>> which run about $20 each. The machined ones look like they will do 
>> the job, but run about $32 each.
>> APT offers both 
>> types:http://www.aptfast.com/ListItems/SubCategory/SU%20Carburetors/Stub%20Stacks%20and%20Ram%20Pipes.aspx
>> Second.
>> At lower rpm the carburetor piston offers more flow blockage than 
>> poor fluid dynamics at the air filter plate. At WOT, it's a different 
>> matter.
>> There are no doubt all kinds of peaks and valleys in fluid flow 
>> during the dynamics of accelerating and cruising up to 3500 rpm. I 
>> was told by one of my engineering teachers that anyone who professes 
>> to be an expert on fluid flow is a liar. He stated that it is still 
>> more of an art than a science and a dark art at that. In fact, after 
>> receiving a doctorate in the field he determined that aircraft are 
>> kept in the air by smoke and mirrors because the dynamic forces at 
>> work are too complex to be understood by the likes of mankind.
>> If you have to run a pancake style filter, then by all means use a 
>> stub stack. Before they became available for the DCOE, I used to cut 
>> down the standard long trumpets and braze them up into short stacks. 
>> They will make some difference, though I doubt it's going to be 
>> really noticeable.
>> *From:[email-masked] 
>> Behalf Of*Allen Bachelder
>> *Sent:*Friday, November 15, 2013 11:03 AM
>> *To:*List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
>> *Subject:*Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
>> 3500 rpm?
>> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive:http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums:http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]
>>
>
>
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]
>

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    For the record:<br>
    I consulted extensively with Steve Gyles re the design and
    manufacture of the stub stacks for the MGA filter cans, since
    duplicated by Steve Ash and others; it is all documented in the UK
    board archives, though there were a number of private
    communications. What he made finally was almost exactly the design I
    suggested, less a few subtle details.<br>
    <br>
    I worked from my developed understanding from years of reading and
    observation. The specific critical detail that a 1/4" entry radius
    would give near optimum results came from Vizard's flow bench tests.
    It should be noted that Vizard was testing flow entry from free air,
    without a nearby cover plate, and also, without a backplate. One
    startling thing he found was that air is drawn from behind, or
    below, the actual pipe entry, so he used a 270 degree rollover on
    his free air stacks. Since the carb configuration and space
    limitations on MGA establish the need for a backplate, the external
    taper was chosen to reduce the effect of a backplate as much as
    possible, giving a 90 degree plus the taper rollover radius. <br>
    <br>
    It is my understanding that a cover plate should be more than 1.5x
    the bore diameter from the entry to avoid flow restriction. Systems
    with less clearance should compensate as much as possible; the
    Bristol engine, for instance, has very thin filter cans as a result
    of space limitations - and Bristol were aero experts without
    compare, so I pay attention. They used a "flow turner" stamped into
    the cover plate. Since Steve's goal was to make a drop in and look
    stock part, modifying the outside of the can was not on, so we did
    the best possible withing the space available. This meant reducing
    the thickness of the stub stack to the minimum possible to achieve
    the 1/4 radius without leaving a sharp or indeterminate edge at the
    carb bore entry, and in order to keep the entry as un-obscured by
    the cover plate as possible. Note that some of the comments in this
    thread, regarding stub stack depth versus can depth,&nbsp; are totally
    out of line with this reasoning.<br>
    <br>
    I did not know that Barney had posted all that info Robert linked:
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/power/pp104.htm">http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/power/pp104.htm</a><br>
    Note that there are several more pages following this one, with dyno
    tests and driving impressions from numerous folk. A most valuable
    resource, thanks guys.<br>
    <br>
    Vizard indicates that about 5% flow improvement can be obtained with
    a 1/4" radius in his free air stacks, over a plain cut pipe. Since
    power developed is a function of air ingested, assuming reasonable
    fueling, it can be taken that power increase should be about the
    same as airflow increase. Given the various limitations (including
    the obstruction of the posts inside the MGA cans), I expected and
    hoped for maybe 4% improvement at best. Consequently, it was
    gratifying to find the measured improvements of power very near 5%,
    which leads to the question - why? The question gets bigger when we
    realize that the tested engine was not optimized for fueling, or
    even in very good tune.<br>
    <br>
    I think the key here is in the reduction of turbulence around the
    jet, and possibly its effect on the vacuum which lifts the air
    piston. Note that dyno tests are done at full throttle, so the air
    piston is almost fully up at any reasonable test point. The
    unvarying reports of improved low speed running and throttle
    response indicate that improvements are happening well below the
    maximum flow range where the expected 5% improvement lies. If you
    think about it, at low throttle openings, the entire active region
    of the carb throat is within 1/4" of the bottom edge of the bore,
    the edges of this area are even closer, and in any event, the jet is
    always in this area - this is just where we might expect turbulence
    to have the greatest ans least predictable effects. The reported
    noise reductions are also an indicator of reduced turbulence - clean
    flow does not make noise, turbulent flow does.<br>
    <br>
    The Bernoulli effect here is for pressure on a surface which has a
    fluid flowing across it, that would be the surface with the jet in
    it, and that pressure reduction is what pulls fuel into the
    airstream. If there is turbulent flow across the surface, that
    pressure drop will vary randomly, and so will fuel delivery: mixture
    will never be predictable. I expect there is room for some
    additional optimization of fueling here, which might well leads to
    further improvement in both low and high output situations.<br>
    <br>
    At the time of the first test of Steve's parts, I suggested, or
    begged, for somebody to go down to Peter Burgess and run some part
    throttle acceleration tests. Peter's dyno has trhe capability of
    measuring transient effects very quickly, and some tests with
    blocked throttle stops might have yielded some good info here.
    Unfortunately, I'm not there, and nobody seemed interested.<br>
    <br>
    I think these user reports put Kelvin's guess - "<span
      class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate;
      font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
      font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
      orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
      text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
      word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
      -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
      -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
      -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
      font-size: medium; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
        Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> I doubt it&#8217;s
        going to be really noticeable.&nbsp; " <font color="#000000">out.
          And, for Allen and others interested in less than full
          throttle use, I'd say some attention to these details might be
          rewarded well. <br>
          <br>
          While it is not possible on the T/Z plenum to get the full max
          throttle effect, some careful radius work on the inside of the
          plenum at the carb face might well give the light throttle
          benefits the stub stacks do. What you want is as close as
          possible to a 1/4" radius on the inside face of the hole,
          especially on the air approach side and bottom, but NOT
          introducing a step to the carb bore. I might say that there is
          nothing preventing a bit of judicious radius work on the carb
          bore itself, if you also open up the plenum/filter face to
          avoid the step. In fact, one thing I was a bit concerned about
          with the folk filing out holes was that they might introduce
          such a step by making fits too sloppy - the Gyles dimensions
          are the max possible for the bore in the stub stack, without
          enlarging the carb bore.<br>
          <br>
          FRM<br>
          <br>
        </font></span></span>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/16/2013 12:21 AM, Allen Bachelder
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:[email-masked]"
      type="cite"><base href="x-msg://689/">Thanks Kelvin,
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>And I'lll look forward to the cold air intake you have in the
        works.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Then can we have a discussion about why and how cold air
        intakes work?</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Cheers,</div>
      <div>Allen<br>
        <div>
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                                                          style="word-wrap:
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                                                          -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                                                          space;
                                                          -webkit-line-break:
                                                          after-white-space;
                                                          "><span
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                                                          style="border-collapse:
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                                                          0px;
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                                                          0px;
                                                          -webkit-border-vertical-spacing:
                                                          0px;
                                                          -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect:
                                                          none;
                                                          -webkit-text-size-adjust:
                                                          auto;
                                                          -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                                                          0px; ">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:
                                                          break-word;
                                                          -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                                                          space;
                                                          -webkit-line-break:
                                                          after-white-space;
                                                          "><span
                                                          class="Apple-style-span"
                                                          style="border-collapse:
                                                          separate;
                                                          font-variant:
                                                          normal;
                                                          letter-spacing:
                                                          normal;
                                                          line-height:
                                                          normal;
                                                          orphans: 2;
                                                          text-indent:
                                                          0px;
                                                          text-transform:
                                                          none;
                                                          white-space:
                                                          normal;
                                                          widows: 2;
                                                          word-spacing:
                                                          0px;
                                                          -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing:
                                                          0px;
                                                          -webkit-border-vertical-spacing:
                                                          0px;
                                                          -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect:
                                                          none;
                                                          -webkit-text-size-adjust:
                                                          auto;
                                                          -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                                                          0px; ">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="word-wrap:
                                                          break-word;
                                                          -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                                                          space;
                                                          -webkit-line-break:
                                                          after-white-space;
                                                          "><span
                                                          class="Apple-style-span"
                                                          style="border-collapse:
                                                          separate;
                                                          font-variant:
                                                          normal;
                                                          letter-spacing:
                                                          normal;
                                                          line-height:
                                                          normal;
                                                          orphans: 2;
                                                          text-indent:
                                                          0px;
                                                          text-transform:
                                                          none;
                                                          white-space:
                                                          normal;
                                                          widows: 2;
                                                          word-spacing:
                                                          0px;
                                                          -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing:
                                                          0px;
                                                          -webkit-border-vertical-spacing:
                                                          0px;
                                                          -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect:
                                                          none;
                                                          -webkit-text-size-adjust:
                                                          auto;
                                                          -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                                                          0px; ">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:
                                                          Helvetica;
                                                          color: rgb(0,
                                                          0, 0);
                                                          font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-weight:
                                                          normal;
                                                          word-wrap:
                                                          break-word;
                                                          -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                                                          space;
                                                          -webkit-line-break:
                                                          after-white-space;
                                                          font-size:
                                                          12px; "><b><i>Allen
                                                          &amp; Florrie
                                                          Bachelder &nbsp; &nbsp;
                                                          &nbsp; =iii=&lt;<br>
                                                          Spring Creek
                                                          Home for
                                                          Wayward MGs</i></b></div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:
                                                          Helvetica;
                                                          color: rgb(0,
                                                          0, 0);
                                                          font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-weight:
                                                          normal;
                                                          word-wrap:
                                                          break-word;
                                                          -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                                                          space;
                                                          -webkit-line-break:
                                                          after-white-space;
                                                          font-size:
                                                          12px; "><b><i>'57
                                                          ZB, '65 B, '69
                                                          C/GT, '73 B/GT</i></b></div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:
                                                          Helvetica;
                                                          color: rgb(0,
                                                          0, 0);
                                                          font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-weight:
                                                          normal;
                                                          word-wrap:
                                                          break-word;
                                                          -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                                                          space;
                                                          -webkit-line-break:
                                                          after-white-space;
                                                          font-size:
                                                          12px; "><b><i>North
                                                          Street, MI
                                                          48049, USA</i></b></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                      </span></div>
                                                  </span></div>
                                              </span></div>
                                          </span></div>
                                      </span></div>
                                  </span></div>
                              </span><b><i><span
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                                    style="font-size: 12px; "><a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b><span
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                                    text-transform: none; white-space:
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                                        class="Apple-style-span"
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                                                          <div
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                                                          -webkit-nbsp-mode:
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                                                          -webkit-line-break:
                                                          after-white-space;
                                                          "><span
                                                          class="Apple-style-span"
                                                          style="border-collapse:
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                                                          font-variant:
                                                          normal;
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                                                          line-height:
                                                          normal;
                                                          orphans: 2;
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                                                          0px;
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                                                          none;
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                                                          none;
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                                                          auto;
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                                                          0px; ">
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                                                          style="word-wrap:
                                                          break-word;
                                                          -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                                                          space;
                                                          -webkit-line-break:
                                                          after-white-space;
                                                          "><span
                                                          class="Apple-style-span"
                                                          style="border-collapse:
                                                          separate;
                                                          font-variant:
                                                          normal;
                                                          letter-spacing:
                                                          normal;
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                                                          0px; ">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-weight:
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                                                          rgb(0, 0, 0);
                                                          word-wrap:
                                                          break-word;
                                                          -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                                                          space;
                                                          -webkit-line-break:
                                                          after-white-space;
                                                          "><b><i><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-weight:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-size:
                                                          12px; ">****************************************************************</span></i></b></div>
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                                                          </span></div>
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                                                      </span></div>
                                                  </span></div>
                                              </span></div>
                                          </span></div>
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                      </span></div>
                  </span></span></div>
            </span></span>
        </div>
        <br>
        <div>
          <div>On Nov 15, 2013, at 6:28 PM, Kelvin Dodd wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span"
              style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica;
              font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
              normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
              orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
              text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
              -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
              0px; font-size: medium; ">
              <div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
                <div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; ">
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Allen.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">First
                      off they are pricey.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">There
                      are two types of stub stack available for the 1.5&#8221;
                      SU. Cast and machined. I&#8217;ve not been impressed
                      with the design of the cast ones which run about
                      $20 each. The machined ones look like they will do
                      the job, but run about $32 each.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">APT
                      offers both types:<span
                        class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.aptfast.com/ListItems/SubCategory/SU%20Carburetors/Stub%20Stacks%20and%20Ram%20Pipes.aspx"
                        style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
                        ">http://www.aptfast.com/ListItems/SubCategory/SU%20Carburetors/Stub%20Stacks%20and%20Ram%20Pipes.aspx</a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Second.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">At
                      lower rpm the carburetor piston offers more flow
                      blockage than poor fluid dynamics at the air
                      filter plate. At WOT, it&#8217;s a different matter.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">There
                      are no doubt all kinds of peaks and valleys in
                      fluid flow during the dynamics of accelerating and
                      cruising up to 3500 rpm. I was told by one of my
                      engineering teachers that anyone who professes to
                      be an expert on fluid flow is a liar. He stated
                      that it is still more of an art than a science and
                      a dark art at that. In fact, after receiving a
                      doctorate in the field he determined that aircraft
                      are kept in the air by smoke and mirrors because
                      the dynamic forces at work are too complex to be
                      understood by the likes of mankind.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">If
                      you have to run a pancake style filter, then by
                      all means use a stub stack. Before they became
                      available for the DCOE, I used to cut down the
                      standard long trumpets and braze them up into
                      short stacks. They will make some difference,
                      though I doubt it&#8217;s going to be really noticeable.
                      &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Just
                      work on the basics first.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                      Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                  <div>
                    <div style="border-right-style: none;
                      border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style:
                      none; border-width: initial; border-color:
                      initial; border-top-style: solid;
                      border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);
                      border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt;
                      padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in;
                      padding-left: 0in; ">
                      <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                        margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                        font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                        serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
                            font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span
                          style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,
                          sans-serif; "><span
                            class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                            style="color: blue; text-decoration:
                            underline; ">[email-masked]</a><span
                            class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</a>]<span
                            class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>On
                            Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Allen
                          Bachelder<br>
                          <b>Sent:</b><span
                            class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Friday,
                          November 15, 2013 11:03 AM<br>
                          <b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>List
                          for the Z Magnette Group - North America<br>
                          <b>Subject:</b><span
                            class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re:
                          [Zmagnette] Stub stacks<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                    margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                    serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                  <div>
                    <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                      margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                      font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                      serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                      margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                      font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                      serif; ">Kelvin - your point is well-taken. Are
                      you saying that even if everything else is
                      spot-on, it's still not worthwhile to mess with
                      velocity stacks for those of us who spend most of
                      our lives below 3500 rpm?<o:p></o:p></div>
                    <div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
                      margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
                      font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                      serif; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                  </div>
                </div>
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From: "Wayne & Isabel Hardy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 06:51:24 -0600

Do you have a clue as to when this article was done??? I have all the R & Ts 
ever published up til about 7 years ago and I can sure look up the article. 
I agree, it was a great mag when run by John Bond and his wife  Elaine but 
after CBS bought it  well I started to loose interest til I finally just 
quit after R & T and Car & Driver both came under the same ownership 
blanket.

Wombat

-----Original Message----- 
From: Arch Boston
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 3:37 PM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

Many years ago when MGAs were new cars Road and Track Magazine did a DIY 
article on a ram air set up.  I no longer have the magazine.  Not the same 
thing as stacks but related.  That was a terrific magazine in the 50's and 
60's.  Anyone else remember the article?  Arch

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 15, 2013, at 3:55 PM, [email-masked] wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]
>

---

From: Arch Boston <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 10:49:53 -0500

Wayne,  My memory is not the greatest.... But, I am guessing '56, '57, '58.   It was a relatively long detailed article showing how the metal box had to be fabricated  the whole bit.  When you are looking through that stack another great article contained the plans for a DIY Morgan.  Arch

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 16, 2013, at 7:51 AM, "Wayne & Isabel Hardy" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Do you have a clue as to when this article was done??? I have all the R & Ts ever published up til about 7 years ago and I can sure look up the article. I agree, it was a great mag when run by John Bond and his wife  Elaine but after CBS bought it  well I started to loose interest til I finally just quit after R & T and Car & Driver both came under the same ownership blanket.
> 
> Wombat
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Arch Boston
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]

---

From: "Wayne & Isabel Hardy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 15:07:04 -0600

Arch;
I think that 's where I got the idea for my own box for my MGA way back 
when, and where I found out about the availability of a nice aluminum radio 
shack project chassis of the appropriate size. I'll do some digging around 
in the archives and see what I can find.
Once long ago I started on a project to cardex all my magazines for easier 
reference to old issues and subject matter therein. Never had the staying 
power to finish that kind of a project. Then one other time I offered all my 
magazines to a public library if they would microfilm them for me so I could 
store them in a shoe box. That never came to pass either..library said too 
expensive even if they couldn't get the books anywhere else.
That's just the start of my automotive library. Include Sports Car Graphic, 
MG Enthusiasts for 27 years, lots of years of Classic and Sports cars, and 
Sports and Classic Cars, 25 years of Competition Press & Autoweek,  Grass 
Roots Motorsport, British Car evolving into Classic Car Enthusiasts, MG 
World, and a few car club ones and MG Registers publications, and you see 
how my attic can be getting fullish. Of course I have a bookcase or two full 
of hardback real books on things MG and sports cars in general, tuning 
manuals for the XPAG motor from Nuffield folks, Automotive Engineering 
Handbook, (one of my favorites) books on handling and suspension setups, a 
wonderful little book by Sterling Mosses mechanic for many years Alf 
Francis, called The Racing Mechanic; AND about 50 DVD / VHS recordings of 
things automobile too including neat old races.
Have pity on the poor relatives when I die, sorting through this mess plus 
about 1500 diecast mostly, auto models.
Boy are they going to have a sale at my garage, before they ever start on 
the automobilia and car parts.

Wombat

-----Original Message----- 
From: Arch Boston
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 9:49 AM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

Wayne,  My memory is not the greatest.... But, I am guessing '56, '57, '58. 
It was a relatively long detailed article showing how the metal box had to 
be fabricated  the whole bit.  When you are looking through that stack 
another great article contained the plans for a DIY Morgan.  Arch

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 16, 2013, at 7:51 AM, "Wayne & Isabel Hardy" <[email-masked]> 
wrote:

> Do you have a clue as to when this article was done??? I have all the R & 
> Ts ever published up til about 7 years ago and I can sure look up the 
> article. I agree, it was a great mag when run by John Bond and his wife 
> Elaine but after CBS bought it  well I started to loose interest til I 
> finally just quit after R & T and Car & Driver both came under the same 
> ownership blanket.
>
> Wombat
>

---

From: Arch Boston <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 16:21:03 -0500

Wayne, the article is worth looking for.  Just about hast to be in '56 or '57 Road and Track....  Or possibly Sportscar Illustrated.    Arch

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 16, 2013, at 4:07 PM, "Wayne & Isabel Hardy" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Arch;
> I think that 's where I got the idea for my own box for my MGA way back when, and where I found out about the availability of a nice aluminum radio shack project chassis of the appropriate size. I'll do some digging around in the archives and see what I can find.
> Once long ago I started on a project to cardex all my magazines for easier reference to old issues and subject matter therein. Never had the staying power to finish that kind of a project. Then one other time I offered all my magazines to a public library if they would microfilm them for me so I could store them in a shoe box. That never came to pass either..library said too expensive even if they couldn't get the books anywhere else.
> That's just the start of my automotive library. Include Sports Car Graphic, MG Enthusiasts for 27 years, lots of years of Classic and Sports cars, and Sports and Classic Cars, 25 years of Competition Press & Autoweek,  Grass Roots Motorsport, British Car evolving into Classic Car Enthusiasts, MG World, and a few car club ones and MG Registers publications, and you see how my attic can be getting fullish. Of course I have a bookcase or two full of hardback real books on things MG and sports cars in general, tuning manuals for the XPAG motor from Nuffield folks, Automotive Engineering Handbook, (one of my favorites) books on handling and suspension setups, a wonderful little book by Sterling Mosses mechanic for many years Alf Francis, called The Racing Mechanic; AND about 50 DVD / VHS recordings of things automobile too including neat old races.
> Have pity on the poor relatives when I die, sorting through this mess plus about 1500 diecast mostly, auto models.
> Boy are they going to have a sale at my garage, before they ever start on the automobilia and car parts.
> 
> Wombat
>

---

From: "John Park" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 19:07:32 -0500

I cleaned out pretty much all of my magazines. I just never went back to
look for that special something and no one else was interested. Some blue
boxed, some to old folks homes where the guys really liked them since they
weren't ladies home journal et al.
Now, wasn't Alf Francis Rob Walker's mechanic when Rob owned an F1 team?
Didn't Stirling Moss start out with Rob, then others like Jo Siffert came
and went? I always looked forward to Rob's race reports in Road and Track.
That was a large reason I subscribed to them back in the early 60's.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Wayne & Isabel Hardy
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 4:07 PM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

Arch;

Wombat

-----Original Message-----
From: Arch Boston
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 9:49 AM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 16, 2013, at 7:51 AM, "Wayne & Isabel Hardy" <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> Do you have a clue as to when this article was done??? I have all the 
> R & Ts ever published up til about 7 years ago and I can sure look up 
> the article. I agree, it was a great mag when run by John Bond and his 
> wife Elaine but after CBS bought it  well I started to loose interest 
> til I finally just quit after R & T and Car & Driver both came under 
> the same ownership blanket.
>
> Wombat
>
> Many years ago when MGAs were new cars Road and Track Magazine did a 
> DIY article on a ram air set up.  I no longer have the magazine.  Not 
> the same thing as stacks but related.  That was a terrific magazine in 
> the 50's and 60's.  Anyone else remember the article?  Arch
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> I'd agree with this - there is a lot of material in an oil-bath 
>> filter and a substantial metal container.
>>
>>
>> response, in top gear particularly, is very noticeable over 2000 rpm. 
>> It makes the 40 to 60 mph acceleration noticeably better and more fun 
>> to drive".
>>
>> stack/backplate on the MGB - made a 5% improvement and BMC were 
>> stingy with unnecessary parts!
>>
>> you've got the ignition working well and SUs balanced, tappet 
>> clearances set etc.
>>
>> regards,
>> --
>> Robert

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]

---

From: "Wayne & Isabel Hardy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 21:23:51 -0600

Technically Alf Francis worked for several car owners but he was the main 
wrench on Sterling"s cars, the ones he drove in races, so I referred to him 
as Sterling Moss mechanic. Yes he did do other drivers work as well, and was 
paid by owners to prep cars as in Rob Walker team owner of a F-1 team and a 
lovely GTO Ferrari that Sterling ran in GT races, and other stuff.

Wombat

-----Original Message-----

Arch;

Wombat

-----Original Message-----
From: Arch Boston
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 9:49 AM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks

Sent from my iPad