Subject: [Zmagnette] Magnette Listserv proposal (Long message but hopefully worth reading) <[email-masked]> <zmagnette.autox.team.net>

From: James Rogers <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 18:46:12 -0400

--===============1544519084==

--047d7b3a9b4047de4004ea2555eb
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings fellow Magnetteers,
I as well as many of our members have been overwhelmed with the volume of
email (250) that has been exchanged since the migrating to the new listserv
(2 weeks ago). I am contacting the list to make several proposals as to how
to change how the list polices itself. I believe that all of the issues
that many of us have with the list can be solved with a little more self
management and changes to our (the group and individual) preferences. With
all due respect to the members, I am going to be frank. But be mindful that
my frankness is intended to serve our online community, not insult.

I know that most of us simply lurk on the list and others post multiple
times a day. According to Allen B there are 111 people on the list. By my
count less than 20 post every week and make up well over half the volume.
The list is also not growing because people leave the list (for various
reasons) at just about (4-5 per year) the same rate that they join. I think
whatever your involvement, we are all equally valued. I also think that the
recent increase of people leaving the group is unacceptable. We should want
to grow the group. For now the list behaves more like a forum/chat room.
Which maybe an indication as to where we should divert the current
membership. I would also like to recommend using the Magnette forum on MG
Experience as an additional resource (
http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/list.php?27).

First and foremost, the reply all option should be changed to reply to
sender. I understand that the arguments against using this option are that
"this is how it has always been" and "the recipient should use the delete
option to manage their inbox". I think these two arguments undermine our
community by placing individual wants ahead of the group's. As more people
are added to the group (especially younger more "netiquette" savvy members)
the number of people collectively reading and writing emails increases and
this is a generally good thing. But the volume of unwanted, less valued
emails also increases. This is especially true of emails that fall outside
of proper "netiquette" guidelines (see below Etiquette Proposal for the
specifics). As demonstrated in the past two weeks well more than half of
the emails fall outside of these guidelines. Further, the sender should
manage their messages not the group. If a sender sends a message addressed
to an individual but they reply to the group then 109 of us have to review
the message, select the message and delete (three simple clicks of the
mouse right?). But collectively that adds up to over 6,500 reviews
individual clicks per week, 27,000/month and 350,000/year. If the default
reply button was switched to reply to sender then and the replyer wanted to
reply to the group (reply all) it would require 1 click per message. The
current setting is very very resource intensive and wastes a lot of the
members' time.

I personally don't delete messages because I like to use this list as a
reference when addressing questions with my Magnette. But the volume of
useless content is so overwhelming it makes it difficult to search for any
specific question. There is also the auto response (vacation reply) problem
which in the current setting will message the entire group for each and
every email sent.

In addition to the above proposal I would like to propose a set of rules
and etiquette guidelines for member to follow on their own accord. If we
can adopt this approach individually then I believe our over all experience
will improve with the list and subsequently grow our membership. These are
a plagiarized amalgamation of rules and etiquette I have found on the web.
Please feel free to suggest amendments and additions.

*Proposed rules:*

Do not intimidate, challenge or attack others. List discussions are meant
to stimulate conversation not to generate conflict or unease. All members
have a right and responsibility to interact with the list in a positive way=
.

Do extend the same personal and/or professional courtesies in your
electronic communication as you would in non-electronic exchanges. As
general rule if you wouldn't say it to someone=92s face you shouldn't inclu=
de
it in your message.

All defamatory, abusive, profane, threatening, offensive, or illegal
materials are strictly prohibited. As a rule, if you wouldn't say something
in front of your Grandmother then you probably shouldn't post it on the
list.

Do not distribute any SPAM; solicitation, jokes, chain letters, petitions
for signatures, or letters relating to pyramid schemes, missing persons or
once-in-a-lifetime deals. Generally don=92t =93forward=94 outside emails to=
 the
entire list.

Do not share names, email addresses, contact and/or personal information
about members outside of the Magnette listserv. In confidence, we have
stipulated what we wish share within the group when we joined

Do not share anything that you would not want the world to see or that you
would not want anyone to know came from you.

Do not share solicited or unsolicited commercial or political messages to
the group. But if a member or members have requested information then *
directly* provide that member(s) (not the entire list) with the pertinent
information of information, products and services that you believe will
help them.

*Proposed etiquette: *

For new posts, state concisely and clearly the specific topic of the
comments in the subject line. For replies to original post make sure your
reply includes =93Re: subject=94 format. This allows members to respond mor=
e
appropriately to your posting and makes it easier for members to search the
archives by subject.

Only send a message to the entire list when it contains information that
everyone can benefit from. Postings to the listserv should address the
readership at large rather than individuals specifically. If a discussion
develops into an exchange between two parties, the conversation should move
to private e-mail immediately.

Send personal messages such as "please send me information", =93thanks for
the information", "me, too", =93welcome=94, =93I understand=94 or =93wow!..=
.=94 to
individuals--not to the entire list. In fact, if you start you message
addressed to an individual it most likely should not be sent to the entire
list.

Message length should be kept to a minimum or warn recipients in the
subject line that the body will be long by including the words, "Long
Message." Start you message with a =93get to the point=94 summary of where
you=92re going in the message. Don=92t beat around the bush.

Post only about MG Magnettes. Stay on the topic of the email
thread.Off-topic comments, questions, etc. are not appropriate. As
=93topicality=94 is
to some extent in the eye of the beholder, there is considerable leeway
under this guideline and greater responsibility placed on members to
respect the need to have some coherent focus for the list.

Because we lose verbal and gestural clues when communicating via e-mail,
some special considerations apply to listservs. Even the best authors have
difficulty coming off as sarcastic in textual form.  Avoid =93flaming=94
emotional responses and in particular avoid terms (including swearing) that
could offend precisely because of the absence of verbal and gestural clues.
Only correct another member in a private message and be polite.

It is particularly important to wait before ever replying to an e-mail that
makes you angry or offended. Unlike a regular letter, it=92s very easy to
type something out in anger and hit =93send=94 without thinking through how
what you=92re saying will be interpreted. If something gets you emotionally
upset on the list, please do not reply immediately. If you do feel
compelled to respond, direct your response to the person privately and not
to the entire listserv. A Klingon proverb says, =93Revenge is a dish best
served cold=94 (so take time to cool off before sending a response). Chance=
s
are that what=92s involved is just a misunderstanding or an e-mail typed ou=
t
late at night when the person wasn't thinking clearly. Patience,
generosity, and good humor can go a long way towards a happy listserv.

Use your listservs as the powerful resource they are meant to be. Your
ideas are important. Just because you think everyone knows something
doesn=92t mean they do. And, in return - you be sure to jump right in! Here
is your chance to help a friend and get a lively discussion going.

Do not send administrative messages; such as remove me from the list,
through the listserve. Instead, use the Web interface to change your
settings or to remove yourself from a list. If you are changing e-mail
addresses, you do not need to remove yourself from the list and rejoin
under your new e-mail address. Simply change your settings.

If the amount of mail from any particular list becomes cumbersome, rather
than leaving that list,consider receiving the digest form of the list.
Instead of getting each email individually, you will receive a summary
email at the end of each day. Individual subscribers need to request this
function directly for each listserv list to which they are subscribed. -
See more at: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette

Thanks for your time and consideration,
James
--=20
James C. Rogers
[email-masked]
Phone- 706 206 7986
Physical-65 McDade St. Asheville, NC 28806

--047d7b3a9b4047de4004ea2555eb
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Greetings fellow Magnetteers,<div>I as well as many of our=
 members have been overwhelmed with the volume of email (250) that has been=
 exchanged since the migrating to the new listserv (2 weeks ago). I am cont=
acting the list to make several proposals as to how to change how the list =
polices itself. I believe that all of the issues that many of us have with =
the list can be solved with a little more self management and changes to ou=
r (the group and individual) preferences.=A0With all due respect to the mem=
bers, I am going to be frank. But be mindful that my frankness is intended =
to serve our online community, not insult.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I know that most of us simply lurk on the list and othe=
rs post multiple times a day. According to Allen B there are 111 people on =
the list. By my count less than 20 post every week and make up well over ha=
lf the volume. The list is also not growing because people leave the list (=
for various reasons) at just about (4-5 per year) the same rate that they j=
oin. I think whatever your involvement, we are all equally valued. I also t=
hink that the recent increase of people leaving the group is unacceptable. =
We should want to grow the group. For now the list behaves more like a foru=
m/chat room. Which maybe an indication as to where we should divert the cur=
rent membership. I would also like to recommend using the Magnette forum on=
 MG Experience as an additional resource (<a href=3D"http://www.mgexp.com/p=
horum/list.php?27">http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/list.php?27</a>).=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>First and foremost, the reply all option should be chan=
ged to reply to sender. I understand that the arguments against using this =
option are that &quot;this is how it has always been&quot; and &quot;the re=
cipient should use the delete option to manage their inbox&quot;. I think t=
hese two arguments undermine our community by placing individual wants ahea=
d of the group&#39;s. As more people are added to the group (especially you=
nger more &quot;netiquette&quot; savvy members) the number of people collec=
tively reading and writing emails increases and this is a generally good th=
ing. But the volume of unwanted, less valued emails also increases. This is=
 especially true of emails that fall outside of proper &quot;netiquette&quo=
t; guidelines (see below Etiquette Proposal for the specifics). As demonstr=
ated in the past two weeks well more than half of the emails fall outside o=
f these guidelines. Further, the sender should manage their messages not th=
e group. If a sender sends a message addressed to an individual but they re=
ply to the group then 109 of us have to review the message, select the mess=
age and delete (three simple clicks of the mouse right?). But collectively =
that adds up to over 6,500 reviews individual clicks per week, 27,000/month=
 and 350,000/year. If the default reply button was switched to reply to sen=
der then and the replyer wanted to reply to the group (reply all) it would =
require 1 click per message. The current setting is very very resource inte=
nsive and wastes a lot of the members&#39; time.=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>I personally don&#39;t delete messages because I like t=
o use this list as a reference when addressing questions with my Magnette. =
But the volume of useless content is so overwhelming it makes it difficult =
to search for any specific question. There is also the auto response (vacat=
ion reply) problem which in the current setting will message the entire gro=
up for each and every email sent.</div>
<div><br></div><div>In addition to the above proposal I would like to propo=
se a set of rules and etiquette guidelines for member to follow on their ow=
n accord. If we can adopt this approach individually then I believe our ove=
r all experience will improve with the list and subsequently grow our membe=
rship. These are a plagiarized amalgamation of rules and etiquette I have f=
ound on the web. Please feel free to suggest amendments and additions.</div=
<div><br></div><div><b><u>Proposed rules:</u></b></div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-fam=
ily:Arial,sans-serif">Do not intimidate, challenge or attack others. List d=
iscussions
are meant to stimulate conversation not to generate conflict or unease. All
members have a right and responsibility to interact with the list in a posi=
tive
way.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial in=
itial"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><font fa=
ce=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Do extend the same personal and/or professional co=
urtesies
in your electronic communication as you would in non-electronic exchanges. =
As general
rule if you=A0wouldn&#39;t=A0say it to someone=92s face you=A0shouldn&#39;t=
=A0include it in your
message.</font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif=
">All defamatory, abusive, profane, threatening, offensive, or
illegal materials are strictly prohibited. As a rule, if you=A0wouldn&#39;t=
=A0say
something in front of your Grandmother then you probably=A0shouldn&#39;t=A0=
post it on
the list.</font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></s=
pan></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"=
>Do not distribute any SPAM;
solicitation, jokes, chain letters, petitions for signatures, or letters
relating to pyramid schemes, missing persons or once-in-a-lifetime deals.
Generally don=92t =93forward=94 outside emails to the entire list.</span></=
p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif">Do not share names, email addresses, contact and/or personal
information about members outside of the Magnette listserv. In confidence, =
we have
stipulated what we wish share within the group when we joined</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif">Do
not share anything that you would not want the world to see or that you wou=
ld
not want anyone to know came from you.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Ari=
al,sans-serif"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif">Do not share solicited or unsolicited commercial or political
messages to the group. But if a member or members have requested informatio=
n
then <u>directly</u> provide that member(s) (not the entire list) with the =
pertinent
information of information, products and services that you believe will hel=
p
them.</span></p></div><div><br></div><div><b><u>Proposed etiquette:=A0</u><=
/b></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial ini=
tial"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">For new posts, state con=
cisely and clearly the specific
topic of the comments in the subject line. For replies to original post mak=
e
sure your reply includes =93Re: subject=94 format. This allows members to r=
espond
more appropriately to your posting and makes it easier for members to searc=
h
the archives by subject.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"backgrou=
nd-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br=
></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Only send a message to the entire list=
 when it contains
information that everyone can benefit from. </span><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Arial,sans-serif">Postings to the listserv
should address the readership at large rather than individuals specifically=
. If
a discussion develops into an exchange between two parties, the conversatio=
n
should move to private e-mail immediately.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-family:Ari=
al,sans-serif"><br></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Send personal messages such as </span>=
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">&quot;please send me
information&quot;, </span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=93t=
hanks for the information&quot;,
&quot;me, too&quot;, =93welcome=94, =93I understand=94 or =93wow!...=94 to =
individuals--not
to the entire list. In fact, if you start you message addressed to an
individual it most likely should not be sent to the entire list.</span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Message length should
be kept to a minimum or warn recipients in the subject line that the body w=
ill
be long by including the words, &quot;Long Message.&quot; </span><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Start you message with a =93get to the p=
oint=94 summary of where
you=92re going in the message. Don=92t beat around the bush.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif">Post only about MG Magnettes. Stay on the topic of the email
thread.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> Off-topic comme=
nts, questions, etc. are not appropriate. As
=93topicality=94 is to some extent in the eye of the beholder, there is
considerable leeway under this guideline and greater responsibility placed =
on
members to respect the need to have some coherent focus for the list.</span=
><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif">Because
we lose verbal and gestural clues when communicating via e-mail, some speci=
al
considerations apply to listservs. Even the best authors have difficulty co=
ming
off as sarcastic in textual form. =A0Avoid
=93flaming=94 emotional responses and in particular avoid terms (including
swearing) that could offend precisely because of the absence of verbal and
gestural clues. Only correct another member in a private message and be pol=
ite.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font=
-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"ma=
rgin-bottom:0.0001pt"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">It
is particularly important to wait before ever replying to an e-mail that ma=
kes
you angry or offended. Unlike a regular letter, it=92s very easy to type
something out in anger and hit =93send=94 without thinking through how what=
 you=92re
saying will be interpreted. If something gets you emotionally upset on the
list, please do not reply immediately. If you do feel compelled to respond,
direct your response to the person privately and not to the entire listserv=
. A
Klingon proverb says, =93Revenge is a dish best served cold=94 (so take tim=
e to cool
off before sending a response). Chances are that what=92s involved is just =
a
misunderstanding or an e-mail typed out late at night when the person=A0was=
n&#39;t=A0thinking clearly. Patience, generosity, and good humor can go a l=
ong way
towards a happy listserv.</font><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif=
"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font=
-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br>
<span style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial">Use your listservs
as the powerful resource they are meant to be. Your ideas are important. Ju=
st
because you think everyone knows something doesn=92t mean they do. And, in =
return
- you be sure to jump right in! Here is your chance to help a friend and ge=
t a
lively discussion going.</span></span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans=
-serif"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif">Do not send administrative messages; such as remove me from t=
he
list, through the listserve. Instead, use the Web interface to change your
settings or to remove yourself from a list. If you are changing e-mail
addresses, you do not need to remove yourself from the list and rejoin unde=
r
your new e-mail address. Simply change your settings.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(245,244,239)"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,244,239)">If the=
 amount of mail from any particular list becomes
cumbersome, rather than leaving that list,consider receiving the digest for=
m of
the list. Instead of getting each email individually, you will receive a
summary email at the end of each day. Individual subscribers need to reques=
t
this function directly for each listserv list to which they are subscribed.=
 -
See more at: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette">ht=
tp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette</a></span><span style=3D"font=
-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span></p></div><div><br></div><d=
iv>
<div>Thanks for your time and consideration,</div><div>James</div>-- <br><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:16px;font-family:serif;backgr=
ound-color:rgb(255,255,255)">James C. Rogers</div><div style=3D"margin:0in =
0in 0.0001pt;font-size:16px;font-family:serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,=
255)">
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Email-chew=
[email-masked]</a></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:=
16px;font-family:serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Phone- 706 206 79=
86</div>
<div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:16px;font-family:serif;back=
ground-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Physical-65 McDade St. Asheville, NC 28806</=
div>
</div></div>

--047d7b3a9b4047de4004ea2555eb--

--===============1544519084==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
Zmagnette mailing list

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

--===============1544519084==--

---

From: Arch Boston <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 22:45:32 -0400

--===============1195098132==
	boundary=Apple-Mail-3611B034-6745-4523-A9FE-71233CBC4A54
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-3611B034-6745-4523-A9FE-71233CBC4A54
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=utf-8

James may i ask how long you have been on the list?  In a VERY verbose way y=
ou said basically what we have practiced for many years.  Granted things get=
 out of hand occasionally, but, I think the old saying "if it ain't broke...=
.. ". I personally think most long time members are content with present for=
mat.  We all join clubs, if the club is not to our liking we simply don't re=
new membership. Arch

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 1, 2013, at 6:46 PM, James Rogers <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I as well as many of our members have been overwhelmed with the volume of e=
mail (250) that has been exchanged since the migrating to the new listserv (=
2 weeks ago). I am contacting the list to make several proposals as to how t=
o change how the list polices itself. I believe that all of the issues that m=
any of us have with the list can be solved with a little more self managemen=
t and changes to our (the group and individual) preferences. With all due re=
spect to the members, I am going to be frank. But be mindful that my frankne=
ss is intended to serve our online community, not insult.
>=20
> I know that most of us simply lurk on the list and others post multiple ti=
mes a day. According to Allen B there are 111 people on the list. By my coun=
t less than 20 post every week and make up well over half the volume. The li=
st is also not growing because people leave the list (for various reasons) a=
t just about (4-5 per year) the same rate that they join. I think whatever y=
our involvement, we are all equally valued. I also think that the recent inc=
rease of people leaving the group is unacceptable. We should want to grow th=
e group. For now the list behaves more like a forum/chat room. Which maybe a=
n indication as to where we should divert the current membership. I would al=
so like to recommend using the Magnette forum on MG Experience as an additio=
nal resource (http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/list.php?27).=20
>=20
> First and foremost, the reply all option should be changed to reply to sen=
der. I understand that the arguments against using this option are that "thi=
s is how it has always been" and "the recipient should use the delete option=
 to manage their inbox". I think these two arguments undermine our community=
 by placing individual wants ahead of the group's. As more people are added t=
o the group (especially younger more "netiquette" savvy members) the number o=
f people collectively reading and writing emails increases and this is a gen=
erally good thing. But the volume of unwanted, less valued emails also incre=
ases. This is especially true of emails that fall outside of proper "netique=
tte" guidelines (see below Etiquette Proposal for the specifics). As demonst=
rated in the past two weeks well more than half of the emails fall outside o=
f these guidelines. Further, the sender should manage their messages not the=
 group. If a sender sends a message addressed to an individual but they repl=
y to the group then 109 of us have to review the message, select the message=
 and delete (three simple clicks of the mouse right?). But collectively that=
 adds up to over 6,500 reviews individual clicks per week, 27,000/month and 3=
50,000/year. If the default reply button was switched to reply to sender the=
n and the replyer wanted to reply to the group (reply all) it would require 1=
 click per message. The current setting is very very resource intensive and w=
astes a lot of the members' time.=20
>=20
> I personally don't delete messages because I like to use this list as a re=
ference when addressing questions with my Magnette. But the volume of useles=
s content is so overwhelming it makes it difficult to search for any specifi=
c question. There is also the auto response (vacation reply) problem which i=
n the current setting will message the entire group for each and every email=
 sent.
>=20
> In addition to the above proposal I would like to propose a set of rules a=
nd etiquette guidelines for member to follow on their own accord. If we can a=
dopt this approach individually then I believe our over all experience will i=
mprove with the list and subsequently grow our membership. These are a plagi=
arized amalgamation of rules and etiquette I have found on the web. Please f=
eel free to suggest amendments and additions.
>=20
> Proposed rules:
> Do not intimidate, challenge or attack others. List discussions are meant t=
o stimulate conversation not to generate conflict or unease. All members hav=
e a right and responsibility to interact with the list in a positive way.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Do extend the same personal and/or professional courtesies in your electro=
nic communication as you would in non-electronic exchanges. As general rule i=
f you wouldn't say it to someone=E2=80=99s face you shouldn't include it in y=
our message.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> All defamatory, abusive, profane, threatening, offensive, or illegal mater=
ials are strictly prohibited. As a rule, if you wouldn't say something in fr=
ont of your Grandmother then you probably shouldn't post it on the list.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Do not distribute any SPAM; solicitation, jokes, chain letters, petitions f=
or signatures, or letters relating to pyramid schemes, missing persons or on=
ce-in-a-lifetime deals. Generally don=E2=80=99t =E2=80=9Cforward=E2=80=9D ou=
tside emails to the entire list.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Do not share names, email addresses, contact and/or personal information a=
bout members outside of the Magnette listserv. In confidence, we have stipul=
ated what we wish share within the group when we joined
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Do not share anything that you would not want the world to see or that you=
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Do not share solicited or unsolicited commercial or political messages to t=
he group. But if a member or members have requested information then directl=
y provide that member(s) (not the entire list) with the pertinent informatio=
n of information, products and services that you believe will help them.
>=20
>=20
> Proposed etiquette:=20
> For new posts, state concisely and clearly the specific topic of the comme=
nts in the subject line. For replies to original post make sure your reply i=
ncludes =E2=80=9CRe: subject=E2=80=9D format. This allows members to respond=
 more appropriately to your posting and makes it easier for members to searc=
h the archives by subject.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Only send a message to the entire list when it contains information that e=
veryone can benefit from. Postings to the listserv should address the reader=
ship at large rather than individuals specifically. If a discussion develops=
 into an exchange between two parties, the conversation should move to priva=
te e-mail immediately.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Send personal messages such as "please send me information", =E2=80=9Cthan=
ks for the information", "me, too", =E2=80=9Cwelcome=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9CI un=
derstand=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cwow!...=E2=80=9D to individuals--not to the en=
tire list. In fact, if you start you message addressed to an individual it m=
ost likely should not be sent to the entire list.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Message length should be kept to a minimum or warn recipients in the subje=
ct line that the body will be long by including the words, "Long Message." S=
tart you message with a =E2=80=9Cget to the point=E2=80=9D summary of where y=
ou=E2=80=99re going in the message. Don=E2=80=99t beat around the bush.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Post only about MG Magnettes. Stay on the topic of the email thread. Off-t=
opic comments, questions, etc. are not appropriate. As =E2=80=9Ctopicality=E2=
=80=9D is to some extent in the eye of the beholder, there is considerable l=
eeway under this guideline and greater responsibility placed on members to r=
espect the need to have some coherent focus for the list.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Because we lose verbal and gestural clues when communicating via e-mail, s=
ome special considerations apply to listservs. Even the best authors have di=
fficulty coming off as sarcastic in textual form.  Avoid =E2=80=9Cflaming=E2=
=80=9D emotional responses and in particular avoid terms (including swearing=
) that could offend precisely because of the absence of verbal and gestural c=
lues. Only correct another member in a private message and be polite.
>=20
>=20
> It is particularly important to wait before ever replying to an e-mail tha=
t makes you angry or offended. Unlike a regular letter, it=E2=80=99s very ea=
sy to type something out in anger and hit =E2=80=9Csend=E2=80=9D without thi=
nking through how what you=E2=80=99re saying will be interpreted. If somethi=
ng gets you emotionally upset on the list, please do not reply immediately. I=
f you do feel compelled to respond, direct your response to the person priva=
tely and not to the entire listserv. A Klingon proverb says, =E2=80=9CReveng=
e is a dish best served cold=E2=80=9D (so take time to cool off before sendi=
ng a response). Chances are that what=E2=80=99s involved is just a misunders=
tanding or an e-mail typed out late at night when the person wasn't thinking=
 clearly. Patience, generosity, and good humor can go a long way towards a h=
appy listserv.
>=20
> Use your listservs as the powerful resource they are meant to be. Your ide=
as are important. Just because you think everyone knows something doesn=E2=80=
=99t mean they do. And, in return - you be sure to jump right in! Here is yo=
ur chance to help a friend and get a lively discussion going.
>=20
>=20
> Do not send administrative messages; such as remove me from the list, thro=
ugh the listserve. Instead, use the Web interface to change your settings or=
 to remove yourself from a list. If you are changing e-mail addresses, you d=
o not need to remove yourself from the list and rejoin under your new e-mail=
 address. Simply change your settings.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> If the amount of mail from any particular list becomes cumbersome, rather t=
han leaving that list,consider receiving the digest form of the list. Instea=
d of getting each email individually, you will receive a summary email at th=
e end of each day. Individual subscribers need to request this function dire=
ctly for each listserv list to which they are subscribed. - See more at: htt=
p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/arch.b=
[email-masked]
>=20

--Apple-Mail-3611B034-6745-4523-A9FE-71233CBC4A54
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=utf-8

<html><head></head><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>James may i ask how long y=
ou have been on the list? &nbsp;In a VERY verbose way you said basically wha=
t we have practiced for many years. &nbsp;Granted things get out of hand occ=
asionally, but, I think the old saying "if it ain't broke..... ". I personal=
ly think most long time members are content with present format. &nbsp;We al=
l join clubs, if the club is not to our liking we simply don't renew members=
hip. Arch<br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On Nov 1, 2013, at 6:46 PM,=
 James Rogers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">chewbaca111@gmail=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><=
div dir=3D"ltr">Greetings fellow Magnetteers,<div>I as well as many of our m=
embers have been overwhelmed with the volume of email (250) that has been ex=
changed since the migrating to the new listserv (2 weeks ago). I am contacti=
ng the list to make several proposals as to how to change how the list polic=
es itself. I believe that all of the issues that many of us have with the li=
st can be solved with a little more self management and changes to our (the g=
roup and individual) preferences.&nbsp;With all due respect to the members, I=
 am going to be frank. But be mindful that my frankness is intended to serve=
 our online community, not insult.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I know that most of us simply lurk on the list and other=
s post multiple times a day. According to Allen B there are 111 people on th=
e list. By my count less than 20 post every week and make up well over half t=
he volume. The list is also not growing because people leave the list (for v=
arious reasons) at just about (4-5 per year) the same rate that they join. I=
 think whatever your involvement, we are all equally valued. I also think th=
at the recent increase of people leaving the group is unacceptable. We shoul=
d want to grow the group. For now the list behaves more like a forum/chat ro=
om. Which maybe an indication as to where we should divert the current membe=
rship. I would also like to recommend using the Magnette forum on MG Experie=
nce as an additional resource (<a href=3D"http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/list.p=
hp?27">http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/list.php?27</a>).&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div><div>First and foremost, the reply all option should be chang=
ed to reply to sender. I understand that the arguments against using this op=
tion are that "this is how it has always been" and "the recipient should use=
 the delete option to manage their inbox". I think these two arguments under=
mine our community by placing individual wants ahead of the group's. As more=
 people are added to the group (especially younger more "netiquette" savvy m=
embers) the number of people collectively reading and writing emails increas=
es and this is a generally good thing. But the volume of unwanted, less valu=
ed emails also increases. This is especially true of emails that fall outsid=
e of proper "netiquette" guidelines (see below Etiquette Proposal for the sp=
ecifics). As demonstrated in the past two weeks well more than half of the e=
mails fall outside of these guidelines. Further, the sender should manage th=
eir messages not the group. If a sender sends a message addressed to an indi=
vidual but they reply to the group then 109 of us have to review the message=
, select the message and delete (three simple clicks of the mouse right?). B=
ut collectively that adds up to over 6,500 reviews individual clicks per wee=
k, 27,000/month and 350,000/year. If the default reply button was switched t=
o reply to sender then and the replyer wanted to reply to the group (reply a=
ll) it would require 1 click per message. The current setting is very very r=
esource intensive and wastes a lot of the members' time.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div><div>I personally don't delete messages because I like to use=
 this list as a reference when addressing questions with my Magnette. But th=
e volume of useless content is so overwhelming it makes it difficult to sear=
ch for any specific question. There is also the auto response (vacation repl=
y) problem which in the current setting will message the entire group for ea=
ch and every email sent.</div>
<div><br></div><div>In addition to the above proposal I would like to propos=
e a set of rules and etiquette guidelines for member to follow on their own a=
ccord. If we can adopt this approach individually then I believe our over al=
l experience will improve with the list and subsequently grow our membership=
. These are a plagiarized amalgamation of rules and etiquette I have found o=
n the web. Please feel free to suggest amendments and additions.</div>
<div><br></div><div><b><u>Proposed rules:</u></b></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:Arial,sans-serif">Do not intimidate, challenge or attack others. List disc=
ussions
are meant to stimulate conversation not to generate conflict or unease. All
members have a right and responsibility to interact with the list in a posit=
ive
way.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial ini=
tial"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><font fac=
e=3D"Arial, sans-serif">Do extend the same personal and/or professional cour=
tesies
in your electronic communication as you would in non-electronic exchanges. A=
s general
rule if you&nbsp;wouldn't&nbsp;say it to someone=E2=80=99s face you&nbsp;sho=
uldn't&nbsp;include it in your
message.</font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">A=
ll defamatory, abusive, profane, threatening, offensive, or
illegal materials are strictly prohibited. As a rule, if you&nbsp;wouldn't&n=
bsp;say
something in front of your Grandmother then you probably&nbsp;shouldn't&nbsp=
;post it on
the list.</font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></sp=
an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">D=
o not distribute any SPAM;
solicitation, jokes, chain letters, petitions for signatures, or letters
relating to pyramid schemes, missing persons or once-in-a-lifetime deals.
Generally don=E2=80=99t =E2=80=9Cforward=E2=80=9D outside emails to the enti=
re list.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,s=
ans-serif">Do not share names, email addresses, contact and/or personal
information about members outside of the Magnette listserv. In confidence, w=
e have
stipulated what we wish share within the group when we joined</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,s=
ans-serif">Do
not share anything that you would not want the world to see or that you woul=
d
not want anyone to know came from you.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,s=
ans-serif">Do not share solicited or unsolicited commercial or political
messages to the group. But if a member or members have requested information=

then <u>directly</u> provide that member(s) (not the entire list) with the p=
ertinent
information of information, products and services that you believe will help=

them.</span></p></div><div><br></div><div><b><u>Proposed etiquette:&nbsp;</u=
></b></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial in=
itial"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">For new posts, state con=
cisely and clearly the specific
topic of the comments in the subject line. For replies to original post make=

sure your reply includes =E2=80=9CRe: subject=E2=80=9D format. This allows m=
embers to respond
more appropriately to your posting and makes it easier for members to search=

the archives by subject.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"backgroun=
d-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br><=
/span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Only send a message to the entire list w=
hen it contains
information that everyone can benefit from. </span><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:Arial,sans-serif">Postings to the listserv
should address the readership at large rather than individuals specifically.=
 If
a discussion develops into an exchange between two parties, the conversation=

should move to private e-mail immediately.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" s=
tyle=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,=
sans-serif"><br></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Send personal messages such as </span><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">"please send me
information", </span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=E2=80=9Ct=
hanks for the information",
"me, too", =E2=80=9Cwelcome=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9CI understand=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=
=9Cwow!...=E2=80=9D to individuals--not
to the entire list. In fact, if you start you message addressed to an
individual it most likely should not be sent to the entire list.</span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Message length should
be kept to a minimum or warn recipients in the subject line that the body wi=
ll
be long by including the words, "Long Message." </span><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:Arial,sans-serif">Start you message with a =E2=80=9Cget to the point=E2=
=80=9D summary of where
you=E2=80=99re going in the message. Don=E2=80=99t beat around the bush.</sp=
an></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,s=
ans-serif">Post only about MG Magnettes. Stay on the topic of the email
thread.</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> Off-topic commen=
ts, questions, etc. are not appropriate. As
=E2=80=9Ctopicality=E2=80=9D is to some extent in the eye of the beholder, t=
here is
considerable leeway under this guideline and greater responsibility placed o=
n
members to respect the need to have some coherent focus for the list.</span>=
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,s=
ans-serif">Because
we lose verbal and gestural clues when communicating via e-mail, some specia=
l
considerations apply to listservs. Even the best authors have difficulty com=
ing
off as sarcastic in textual form. &nbsp;Avoid
=E2=80=9Cflaming=E2=80=9D emotional responses and in particular avoid terms (=
including
swearing) that could offend precisely because of the absence of verbal and
gestural clues. Only correct another member in a private message and be poli=
te.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font-=
family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"marg=
in-bottom:0.0001pt"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">It
is particularly important to wait before ever replying to an e-mail that mak=
es
you angry or offended. Unlike a regular letter, it=E2=80=99s very easy to ty=
pe
something out in anger and hit =E2=80=9Csend=E2=80=9D without thinking throu=
gh how what you=E2=80=99re
saying will be interpreted. If something gets you emotionally upset on the
list, please do not reply immediately. If you do feel compelled to respond,
direct your response to the person privately and not to the entire listserv.=
 A
Klingon proverb says, =E2=80=9CRevenge is a dish best served cold=E2=80=9D (=
so take time to cool
off before sending a response). Chances are that what=E2=80=99s involved is j=
ust a
misunderstanding or an e-mail typed out late at night when the person&nbsp;w=
asn't&nbsp;thinking clearly. Patience, generosity, and good humor can go a l=
ong way
towards a happy listserv.</font><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"=
></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font-=
family:Arial,sans-serif"><br>
<span style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial">Use your listservs
as the powerful resource they are meant to be. Your ideas are important. Jus=
t
because you think everyone knows something doesn=E2=80=99t mean they do. And=
, in return
- you be sure to jump right in! Here is your chance to help a friend and get=
 a
lively discussion going.</span></span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-=
serif"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"background-repeat:initial initial"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,s=
ans-serif">Do not send administrative messages; such as remove me from the
list, through the listserve. Instead, use the Web interface to change your
settings or to remove yourself from a list. If you are changing e-mail
addresses, you do not need to remove yourself from the list and rejoin under=

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;backgroun=
d-color:rgb(245,244,239)"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,244,239)">If the amou=
nt of mail from any particular list becomes
cumbersome, rather than leaving that list,consider receiving the digest form=
 of
the list. Instead of getting each email individually, you will receive a
summary email at the end of each day. Individual subscribers need to request=

this function directly for each listserv list to which they are subscribed. -=

See more at: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette">htt=
p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette</a></span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span></p></div><div><br></div><div>=

<div>Thanks for your time and consideration,</div><div>James</div>-- <br><di=
v style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:16px;font-family:serif;backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(255,255,255)">James C. Rogers</div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in=
 0.0001pt;font-size:16px;font-family:serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)=
">
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Email-chewb=
[email-masked]</a></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:16=
px;font-family:serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Phone- 706 206 7986<=
/div>
<div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:16px;font-family:serif;backg=
round-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Physical-65 McDade St. Asheville, NC 28806</di=
v>
</div></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>____________________=
___________________________</span><br><span>Zmagnette mailing list</span><br=
><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">=
://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a></span><br><span>For=
ums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</a></=
span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/=
options/zmagnette/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options=
/zmagnette/[email-masked]</a></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockq=
uote></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-3611B034-6745-4523-A9FE-71233CBC4A54--

--===============1195098132==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============1195098132==--