Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Magnette values and stated value for insurance <[email-masked]> <zmagnette.autox.team.net>

From: Steve Hanegan <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 13:34:21 -0700

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This brings up one of the best arguments for using a company that
specializes in classic and collector cars rather than a "stated value"
policy with a conventional insurance company. I have experienced the
difference! The conventional carriers will start with the stated value then
try to ding you with "depreciation" and "wear and tear" reductions.
Specialist insurers such as Hagerty, J.C. Taylor, Grundy etc. don't seem to
be so inclined. I work with several restorers, painters and other repair
shops that deal with collector cars and they all just cringe when they are
presented with the repair of classic cars that are insured through the
mainstream insurers. One shop that I work with regularly was tasked with
repairing a YB that was in a professional transport trailer that rolled
damaging the car rather significantly. The insurer was one of the
mainstream folks who spent days (weeks) haggling the shop hourly, the cost
of parts, the amount of repair and the repair of surrounding areas (wanted
to paint half the roof!). The next week brought a smashed big Healey
insured with a classic car carrier into the same shop. The adjuster with
the Healey simply insisted on having the car repaired "properly" (use only
Heritage replacement sheet metal were the instructions) and no haggling
after an inspection of the shop to ensure that the capability for proper
repair was there. If you talk to the shop owners, it will quickly become
clear which group they prefer. In 20 years of dealing with Hagerty on my
cars (including a couple of repairs) there is no question in my mind which
is better for our MGs - classic insurance all the way. Not to mention that
Brutus the wonder Mini was $639 per year with a $1000 collision deductible
and a $500 comp deductible for $11K in stated value when on my Liberty
Mutual policy and is now $67 per year with a $15K value and $0 deductible
comp/collision through Hagery on the policy with the other cars. As the
chief cook & bottle washer for a rather large car show, I drive my classics
WAY more than the "optimal" mileage attending multiple club meetings and
multiple club events (you should see the faces of the Land Rover guys when
I show up in a 67 Morris 850 Traveller!!!!!) but use the car in the spirit
of the classic insurance. Hagerty is OK with that as long as I stay within
the spirit of the policy and don't use it as a standard car replacement or
commuter. In years past I have taken the cars cross country to events and
racked up several thousand miles per year over what is "allowed". As long
as I am keeping within the intent of the insurance and keep the insurance
company informed, I have never had any issues. There is way more than
premium $ involved when insuring cars that have fallen out of the
NADA/Kelly blue book world!

Steve H.

On Monday, October 28, 2013, Steve C. wrote:

> ** The reality is that just because you have stated value insurance, it
> does not mean you will get that should your car be totaled. The insurance
> companies will be glad to bed take your money for whatever you wanna put a
> value of your car at, that doesn't mean I will pay you that much. It is
> foolish to over pay for insurance andexpect them to over pay for our cars,
> when the values do not back it up.
> --
> Sent from my Android phone with mail.com Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> CHRIS KOTTING <[email-masked] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> [email-masked]');>> wrote:
>>
>> I don't have classic car insurance on our Magnette.  We want to drive it
>> more regularly than classic policies will allow.  We have it on our regular
>> insurance on a stated value basis.  Not all insurers will do that, but
>> Motorists Mutual does (shameless plug for one of the two major insurers
>> headquartered here in Columbus, Ohio.)
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Steven Trovato <[email-masked]<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', [email-masked]');>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I have a ZA and an MGA.  I wonder how many people have a Magnette and an
>>> MGA.  I've definitely heard of others.  As for insurance, have you had a
>>> classic car insurance company refuse to insure for your stated value?  I
>>> have found them to be pretty flexible, but I haven't tried to request
>>> anything too crazy.  I think the only reason for them to hesitate is that
>>> they don't want you to be able to put a match to it to make a profit.  I
>>> bet there are people on this list who have their Magnettes insured for 25K.
>>>  I am just guessing, though.  I suppose we will get some data points
>>> shortly.  Has anyone had an insurance company refuse to give you as high a
>>> stated value as you wanted?
>>>
>>> -Steve T.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 07:20 PM 10/25/2013, Mike wrote:
>>>
>>>> SteveT, I'm with you except for one thing - value for repair or
>>>> replacement after an accident or other incident.
>>>>
>>>> If nice Magnettes were trading at around $10K, while they cost upwards
>>>> of $20K to get to that condition, you can be in a bind even with a stated
>>>> value policy. Is your underwriter going to go for you asking for $25K of
>>>> coverage for a car that trades for $10K? Perhaps not.
>>>>
>>>> But if the cars are trading in the $20K range, or to put it another
>>>> way, trading at a price that approximates what it would cost to duplicate
>>>> the car, getting them properly insured becomes easier.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not even going to consider the super-deluxe cars out there, the
>>>> ones with A/C, breathed-upon motors, and so on.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think the sedans will ever be as popular or pricey as the
>>>> sports cars, for all the same reasons that the sedans were widely outsold
>>>> by the sports cars when they were new. I've never really understood that,
>>>> but that's how it is. I have both a ZB and an MGA, and the ZB is the much
>>>> nicer (& rarer!) car. Go figure.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> Zmagnette mailing list
>>>
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.**html<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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>>> options/zmagnette/[email-masked]<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/[email-masked]>
>>>
>>>
>>

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This brings up one of the best arguments for using a company that specializ=
es in classic and collector cars rather than a &quot;stated value&quot; pol=
icy with a conventional insurance company. I have experienced the differenc=
e! The=A0conventional carriers will start with the stated value then try to=
 ding you with &quot;depreciation&quot; and &quot;wear and tear&quot; reduc=
tions. Specialist insurers such as Hagerty, J.C. Taylor, Grundy etc. don&#3=
9;t seem to be so inclined. I work with several restorers, painters and oth=
er repair shops that deal with collector cars and they all just cringe when=
 they are presented with the repair of classic cars that are insured throug=
h the mainstream insurers. One shop that I work with regularly=A0was tasked=
 with repairing a YB that was in a professional transport trailer that roll=
ed damaging the car rather significantly. The insurer was one of the mainst=
ream folks who spent days (weeks)=A0haggling the shop hourly, the cost of p=
arts, the amount of repair and the repair of surrounding areas (wanted to p=
aint half the roof!). The next week brought a smashed big=A0Healey insured =
with a classic car carrier into the same shop.=A0The adjuster with the Heal=
ey simply insisted on having the car repaired &quot;properly&quot; (use onl=
y Heritage replacement sheet metal were the instructions)=A0and no haggling=
 after an inspection of the shop to ensure that the capability for proper r=
epair was there. If you talk to the shop owners, it will quickly become cle=
ar which group they prefer. In 20 years of dealing with Hagerty on my cars =
(including a couple of repairs) there is no question in my mind which is be=
tter for our MGs - classic insurance all the way. Not to mention that Brutu=
s the wonder Mini was $639 per year with a $1000 collision deductible and a=
 $500 comp deductible for $11K in stated value when on my Liberty Mutual po=
licy and is now $67 per year with a $15K value and $0 deductible comp/colli=
sion through Hagery on the policy with the other cars. As the chief cook &a=
mp; bottle washer for a rather large car show, I drive my classics WAY more=
 than the &quot;optimal&quot;=A0mileage attending multiple club meetings an=
d multiple club events (you should see the faces of the Land Rover guys whe=
n I show up in a 67 Morris 850 Traveller!!!!!)=A0but use the car in the spi=
rit of the classic insurance. Hagerty is OK with that as long as I stay wit=
hin the spirit of the policy and don&#39;t use it as a standard car replace=
ment or commuter. In years past I have taken the cars cross country to even=
ts and racked up several thousand miles per year over what is &quot;allowed=
&quot;. As long as I am keeping within the intent of the insurance and keep=
 the insurance company informed, I have never had any issues.=A0There is wa=
y more than premium $ involved when=A0insuring cars that have fallen out of=
 the NADA/Kelly blue book world!<div>
<br></div><div>Steve H.<br><br>On Monday, October 28, 2013, Steve C.  wrote=
:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
The reality is that just because you have stated value insurance, it does n=
ot mean you will get that should your car be totaled. The insurance compani=
es will be glad to bed take your money for whatever you wanna put a value o=
f your car at, that doesn&#39;t mean I will pay you that much. It is foolis=
h to over pay for insurance andexpect them to over pay for our cars, when t=
he values do not back it up.<br>

-- <br>
Sent from my Android phone with <a href=3D"http://mail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">mail.com</a> Mail. Please excuse my brevity.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote">CHRIS KOTTING &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;=
[email-masked]&#39;);" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt; wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">I don&#39;t have classic car insurance on our Magnette.=A0=
 We want to drive it more regularly than classic policies will allow.=A0 We=
 have it on our regular insurance on a stated value basis.=A0 Not all insur=
ers will do that, but Motorists Mutual does (shameless plug for one of the =
two major insurers headquartered here in Columbus, Ohio.)<br>

</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri,=
 Oct 25, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Steven Trovato <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"j=
avascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;[email-masked]&#39;);" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I have a ZA and an MGA. =A0I wonder how many=
 people have a Magnette and an MGA. =A0I&#39;ve definitely heard of others.=
 =A0As for insurance, have you had a classic car insurance company refuse t=
o insure for your stated value? =A0I have found them to be pretty flexible,=
 but I haven&#39;t tried to request anything too crazy. =A0I think the only=
 reason for them to hesitate is that they don&#39;t want you to be able to =
put a match to it to make a profit. =A0I bet there are people on this list =
who have their Magnettes insured for 25K. =A0I am just guessing, though. =
=A0I suppose we will get some data points shortly. =A0Has anyone had an ins=
urance company refuse to give you as high a stated value as you wanted?<br>

<br>
-Steve T.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
At 07:20 PM 10/25/2013, Mike wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
SteveT, I&#39;m with you except for one thing - value for repair or replace=
ment after an accident or other incident.<br>
<br>
If nice Magnettes were trading at around $10K, while they cost upwards of $=
20K to get to that condition, you can be in a bind even with a stated value=
 policy. Is your underwriter going to go for you asking for $25K of coverag=
e for a car that trades for $10K? Perhaps not.<br>

<br>
But if the cars are trading in the $20K range, or to put it another way, tr=
ading at a price that approximates what it would cost to duplicate the car,=
 getting them properly insured becomes easier.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m not even going to consider the super-deluxe cars out there, the one=
s with A/C, breathed-upon motors, and so on.<br>
<br>
I don&#39;t think the sedans will ever be as popular or pricey as the sport=
s cars, for all the same reasons that the sedans were widely outsold by the=
 sports cars when they were new. I&#39;ve never really understood that, but=
 that&#39;s how it is. I have both a ZB and an MGA, and the ZB is the much =
nicer (&amp; rarer!) car. Go figure.<br>

<br>
Mike<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div></blockquote></div>

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From: Steven Trovato <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 16:44:55 -0400

That's the difference between agreed value and stated value 
insurance.  Read 
this: 
http://www.hagerty.com/classic-car-articles-resources/Ask-Hagerty-Questions/Ask-Hagerty/Insuring/QA/Whats-the-difference-between-Agreed-Value-and-Stated-Value-coverage

-Steve T.

At 02:38 PM 10/28/2013, Steve C. wrote:
>The reality is that just because you have stated value insurance, it 
>does not mean you will get that should your car be totaled. The 
>insurance companies will be glad to bed take your money for whatever 
>you wanna put a value of your car at, that doesn't mean I will pay 
>you that much. It is foolish to over pay for insurance andexpect 
>them to over pay for our cars, when the values do not back it up.