Subject: [TR] Travel and tuning question

From: Dave Connitt <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2022 10:49:39 -0500

Hi all,
This coming summer my wife and I are planning a fairly long trip in my TR4A  leaving from Cincinnati, Ohio (altitude approximately 500’). Our first destination is going to be Colorado Springs, Co. to drive up Pikes Peak (altitude approximately 14,115’). Then north to Mt. Rushmore (altitude approximately 5,700’), then north to drive through Yellowstone national park (altitude approximately 9,200’). That’s going to be quite a swing in altitude and I am wondering if I will have to occasionally tune the SU HS-6 carbs? Has anyone on the list done a similar drive? If so, how did your Triumph run and what did you have to adjust?
Thanks in advance!
Dave Connitt
‘67 TR4A-IRS
DavesTR4A.com

Sent from my iPhone
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From: Anthony Rhodes <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2022 06:40:24 -0500

I strongly suspect that the “Constant Depression” design of the SU and ZS carbs compensates for altitude a fair amount.  So, the mixture is probably going to be reasonably good.   

What you cannot compensate for is the fact that there is just less air up there.  You will get fewer HP up at high altitude.

Now, a nice turbocharger (aka Turbosupercharger, which seems like a cooler name) would help that. :)

-Tony

Sent from my 1837 Babbage Analytical Engine

> From: Dave Connitt <[email-masked]>
> To: Triumphs <[email-masked]>
> Subject: [TR] Travel and tuning question
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Hi all,
> This coming summer my wife and I are planning a fairly long trip in my TR4A  leaving from Cincinnati, Ohio (altitude approximately 500?). Our first destination is going to be Colorado Springs, Co. to drive up Pikes Peak (altitude approximately 14,115?). Then north to Mt. Rushmore (altitude approximately 5,700?), then north to drive through Yellowstone national park (altitude approximately 9,200?). That?s going to be quite a swing in altitude and I am wondering if I will have to occasionally tune the SU HS-6 carbs? Has anyone on the list done a similar drive? If so, how did your Triumph run and what did you have to adjust?
> Thanks in advance!
> Dave Connitt
> ?67 TR4A-IRS
> DavesTR4A.com

---

From: bill beecher <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 15:52:50 -0600

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">John,<div>Wonderful account about how the I=
ndians often know better than the chiefs, but are not heard. &nbsp;</div><di=
v>Bill b<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">=E2=80=9CDo your best, and let the sparrows=
 twitter=E2=80=9D &nbsp;Lofty</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Dec 8, 2022, at 3=
:49 PM, Greg Lemon &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"auto">That is great stuff, thanks John.&nbsp; The S=
prite/Spitfire competition must have been pretty fierce, there were possibil=
ities for improving the Sprite too, like using the Cooper S version of the 1=
275 A series.&nbsp; But that would have made the Sprite as quick or quicker t=
han a Spitfire but also as fast or faster than an MGB, and of course the car=
 would have been more expensive.&nbsp; They always built the cars to a price=
 didn't they? Fun to think of what might have been, and also fun to cobble u=
p our own modern versions of the factory hot rods.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto">Greg Lemon</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 8, 2022, 12:20 PM  &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">joh=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><d=
iv lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-wo=
rd"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Hi, Dave,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span>Very few, if any of the Experimental Engineers made it into the pub=
lic and enthusiast=E2=80=99s eye except for one or two =E2=80=93 and they we=
re mainly known only in the UK. Sadly, all but one of them are now fixing He=
ralds in heaven. One of them was the late Ray Henderson from the Experimenta=
l Department. A lovely, unassuming man who was a brilliant engineer of the o=
ld school and who could turn his hand to fixing the impossible miles from an=
ywhere, told me many stories of his experiences. Ray undertook quite a numbe=
r of trips in development cars to far flung destinations and the one about w=
hich he was the most critical was being one of the crew that drove two or th=
ree Heralds (pre-launch versions) from Cape Town in South Africa to London. T=
he book of that trip was called =E2=80=9CTurn Left at Tangier=E2=80=9D thoug=
h I don=E2=80=99t think Ray provided much of the input to it being written. I=
f he had, it=E2=80=99s likely he=E2=80=99d have either lost his job or been s=
eriously disciplined on his return. He was scathing in the extreme about the=
 whole venture and highly critical of the Company for even suggesting the ex=
ercise in the first place. In Ray=E2=80=99s view =E2=80=93 which I think was=
 shared by all those who went with him on the trip, was that the cars were t=
otally unsuited to the journey they made and it=E2=80=99s a tribute to Ray a=
nd his colleagues that they actually managed to get the cars back, so badly w=
ere they damaged by the appalling so-called roads and no roads at all in cro=
ssing the Sahara desert. Apart from the unsuitability of the chosen route, n=
one of those who took part were given any kind of training or pre-run prepar=
ation in terms of the types of terrain, culture, language, don=E2=80=99t-do=E2=
=80=99s etc that they would encounter, the very real dangers that faced them=
 in going through certain countries where the white man definitely was not w=
anted, through training in basic medicine and first aid, treating colleagues=
 for scorpion attacks or snake bite and damn all in terms of carrying approp=
riate medical kits on all the vehicles. As I recall, there were three Herald=
s, one Vanguard estate car and a Standard Atlas van with about one and a hal=
f tons of parts, tools, fuel, water and camping kit =E2=80=93 and just one 9=
48cc engine to drive it!!!!! Ray told me that each Herald required at least t=
hree rear suspension rebuilds en-route, several clutch changes and two or th=
ree major gearbox failures! I can=E2=80=99t recall the details now, but ther=
e were so many driveshaft, rear wheel carriers and other vital parts failure=
s, that several more were air-freighted out to Nigeria in the hope of gettin=
g the cars home. I do know all the cars were re-fitted in Lagos, Nigeria wit=
h locally made radiators that didn=E2=80=99t break or crack as a result of v=
ibration. Having spent a lot of time in Africa myself, I know what their roa=
ds can do and I have a lot of respect for local tradespeople on street corne=
rs who can do truly amazing things in repairing something that looks smashed=
 beyond repair. Anyway, when they finally got to Coventry, all the men who h=
ad taken part in the event, were publicly castigated by Harry Webster, the D=
irector of Engineering for submitting trip reports that were critical of a n=
umber of Webster-inspired features on the Herald in particular. Ray summaris=
ed that event as =E2=80=9Cthe journey through hell=E2=80=9D and he was very c=
ritical of Alick Dick (Standard-Triumph=E2=80=99s CEO) and Frank Higham (Sal=
es Director) for abdicating the company=E2=80=99s duty of care to employees i=
n sending that team of men on what they felt was a dangerous and ill thought=
-out expedition in cars that were totally unsuited to that sort of travel in=
 such conditions.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Anoth=
er of Ray=E2=80=99s unique contributions was the creation of a Spitfire whos=
e roadholding was far better than the Sprite/Midget in standard spec. It was=
 so good that Webster insisted it should be put in the crusher and the conce=
pt forgotten. Basically, Ray modified a Spitfire taken off the line, substan=
tially reinforced the rear part of the bodyshell and re-equipped the car wit=
h semi-trailing arms and coil springs as per the TR4A but using parts from t=
he Triumph 1300 front wheel drive car. Ray did that conversion, on his own, i=
n the Engineering workshop in just three weeks =E2=80=93 and without any dra=
wings at all! It was all done on =E2=80=9Cif it looks right, it=E2=80=99ll p=
robably be right =E2=80=93 and it was. That car was so good it *<b>ought</b>=
* to have gone into production but the costs that would have been incurred i=
n completely re-jigging the chassis and doing major work in re-designing and=
 strengthening the body tub would have put another GBP50 (@ 1966 values) &nb=
sp;on the manufacturing cost of the car. Such a cost would have translated t=
o an extra GBP250 at retail =E2=80=93 and Webster claimed (perhaps correctly=
?) that this would price the Spitfire out of the market and make the Spridge=
t the favoured car for its price, so he threw the whole idea out. A terrible=
 shame in its way. All those (few) who drove the car =E2=80=93 apart from We=
bster, were unanimous it was the way the Spitfire should have been designed f=
rom the start and leading that argument was the Company=E2=80=99s chief test=
 driver!<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>So, a little b=
it of =E2=80=98behind the scenes=E2=80=99 history for those who are interest=
ed. Apologies for taking up space they may not interest most people.<u></u><=
u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Jonmac<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;=
border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;font-size:pt"><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Connitt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dconnitt@f=
use.net" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> 06 December 2022 14:04<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">j=
[email-masked]</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Rye Livingston &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"norefer=
rer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>; Ran=
dy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=
=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t;; Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferre=
r noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Subjec=
t:</b> Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">That=E2=80=
=99s interesting Jonmac,<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Did an=
y of those shows ever discuss how the drivers handled the altitude? Asking f=
or a friend, LOL.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dave Connitt<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal">Sent from my iPhone<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<br><br><u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-botto=
m:5.0pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Dec 6, 202=
2, at 4:12 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<u></u><u></u>=
</p></blockquote></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=EF=BB=BF<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span>Back in the day =E2=80=93 like fifty plus years ago, all the l=
arger UK car makers undertook extensive altitude testing on all their cars. =
Favourite locations were Europe, Scandinavia, Canadian Rockies, the Andes an=
d Iran before the Shah was deposed. Lots of Pike=E2=80=99s Peak equivalent p=
laces in some of those locations and this sort of testing is something many e=
nthusiasts don=E2=80=99t take on board.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span>&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
>Jonmac</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>&nbsp;</span><u=
></u><u></u></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0p=
t;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;font-size:pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b=
> Rye Livingston &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> 05 December 2=
022 19:22<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Cc:</=
b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer no=
referrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>; Dave Conn=
itt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Randy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Travel and tu=
ning question<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u><=
/u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Before the pandemic I drove my TR3 from=
 sea level in California, to Flagstaff Arizona, just shy of 7000=E2=80=99, f=
or Triumphest.&nbsp; On the way home we drove over Tioga Pass going into Yos=
emite at 9,945 feet.&nbsp; I didn=E2=80=99t adjust anything and it ran well.=
<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Rye<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
>&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt;image001=
.jpg&gt;<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br><br><u><=
/u><u></u></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Dec 4, 2022, at 2:37 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:johnb=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">johnbmaca=
[email-masked]</a> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp=
;<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Agreed. I don=E2=80=99t r=
ecall either of those Stags suffering fuel starvation or 'altitude' sickness=
. One on SU's, the other on Strombergs. Must admit I was glad when we did th=
e descent as the altitude was doing me no good at all. That said, a great dr=
ive in both directions, a fine day and an amazing view at the summit.<br><br=
>jonmac<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href=3D"mailto:stagbyt=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stagbytriumph@tr=
iumphstagclub.org" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">stagbytri=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br>Sent: 02 December 2022 21:34<br>To: 'Da=
ve Connitt' &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; 'Randy and Valerie DeRui=
ter' &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc: 'Triumphs=
' &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [TR] Tr=
avel and tuning question<br><br>I hear there are a lot of "'deer" on top of P=
ikes Peak at various times!<br><br>Glenn aka StagByTriumph<br><br>-----Origi=
nal Message-----<br>From: Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs-bounces@au=
tox.team.net" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">triumphs-bounc=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; On Behalf Of Dave Connitt<br>Sent: Friday, Decembe=
r 2, 2022 10:45 AM<br>To: Randy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:d=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">de=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc: Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:triump=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@=
autox.team.net</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question<br><b=
r>Thanks for the tip Randy! <br>Yea, the trip to Pikes Peak started from a c=
onversation with some TriState Triumph people at lunch after one of our =E2=80=
=9Cspirited drives=E2=80=9D. The trip up Pikes Peak was a bucket list goal o=
f one of the couples. I asked my wife if she wanted to go too and after sayi=
ng yes, she suggested that since we will be out west why not see some other s=
ites? We=E2=80=99re both retired so there=E2=80=99s no hurry getting back ho=
me. There=E2=80=99s about 8 of us going to Pikes Peak so far. I haven=E2=80=99=
t mentioned our extended trip to the group yet but some of them may want to g=
o with us instead of driving straight back to Cinci.<br><br>Thanks again for=
 the electric fuel pump idea!!<br>Tha car is already up on the QuckJack<span=
 style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,sans-serif">=F0=9F=98=81</s=
pan>.<br>Dave and Colleen Connitt<br>FOG 51<br><br>Sent from my iPhone<br><b=
r><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bot=
tom:5.0pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Dec 2, 2022, at 11:56 AM, Randy and Val=
erie DeRuiter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br><br>=EF=BB=BFDave<br><br>Sounds like a great trip - I didn=E2=80=99t make=
 the last tour with my other FOG buddies but when they went through the Rock=
ies the #1 issue at altitude was the mechanical fuel pump cavitating due to e=
thanol gas we think.&nbsp; A couple guys on the trip hooked up temporary ele=
ctric pumps and had no issue - no carb adjustments were made for any of them=
.<br><br>Randy<br>FOG37<br><br>Sent from my iPhone<br><br><br><br><u></u><u>=
</u></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal">On Dec 2, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Dave Connitt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">dconnitt@=
fuse.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br>=EF=BB=BFHi all,<br>This coming summer my wif=
e and I are planning a fairly long trip in my TR4A &nbsp;leaving from Cincin=
nati, Ohio (altitude approximately 500=E2=80=99). Our first destination is g=
oing to be Colorado Springs, Co. to drive up Pikes Peak (altitude approximat=
ely 14,115=E2=80=99). Then north to Mt. Rushmore (altitude approximately 5,7=
00=E2=80=99), then north to drive through Yellowstone national park (altitud=
e approximately 9,200=E2=80=99). That=E2=80=99s going to be quite a swing in=
 altitude and I am wondering if I will have to occasionally tune the SU HS-6=
 carbs? Has anyone on the list done a similar drive? If so, how did your Tri=
umph run and what did you have to adjust?<br>Thanks in advance!<br>Dave Conn=
itt<br>=E2=80=9867 TR4A-IRS<br><a href=3D"http://DavesTR4A.com" rel=3D"noref=
errer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">DavesTR4A.com</a><br><br>Sent from my iP=
hone<br>** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> **<br><br>Donate: <a h=
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hs/[email-masked]</a><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></blockquote>=
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