Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question

From: Dave Connitt <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2022 09:04:11 -0500

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">That=E2=80=99s interesting Jonmac,<div>Did a=
ny of those shows ever discuss how the drivers handled the altitude? Asking f=
or a friend, LOL.</div><div>Dave Connitt<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from m=
y iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Dec 6, 2022,=
 at 4:12 AM, [email-masked] wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockq=
uote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Typ=
e" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D=
"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:ur=
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Back in the day =E2=80=93=
 like fifty plus years ago, all the larger UK car makers undertook extensive=
 altitude testing on all their cars. Favourite locations were Europe, Scandi=
navia, Canadian Rockies, the Andes and Iran before the Shah was deposed. Lot=
s of Pike=E2=80=99s Peak equivalent places in some of those locations and th=
is sort of testing is something many enthusiasts don=E2=80=99t take on board=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-lan=
guage:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Jonmac<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><=
div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
cm 0cm 0cm;font-size:pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Rye Livingston &=
lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> 05 December 2022 19:22<br><b>To:</b> jo=
[email-masked]<br><b>Cc:</b> [email-masked]; Dave C=
onnitt &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Randy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;deruitervil=
[email-masked]&gt;; Triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:<=
/b> Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Before the pandemic I=
 drove my TR3 from sea level in California, to Flagstaff Arizona, just shy o=
f 7000=E2=80=99, for Triumphest. &nbsp;On the way home we drove over Tioga P=
ass going into Yosemite at 9,945 feet. &nbsp;I didn=E2=80=99t adjust anythin=
g and it ran well.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Rye<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><div>&lt;im=
age001.jpg&gt;</div><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br><o:p>=
</o:p></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal">On Dec 4, 2022, at 2:37 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:johnbmaca=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Agreed=
. I don=E2=80=99t recall either of those Stags suffering fuel starvation or '=
altitude' sickness. One on SU's, the other on Strombergs. Must admit I was g=
lad when we did the descent as the altitude was doing me no good at all. Tha=
t said, a great drive in both directions, a fine day and an amazing view at t=
he summit.<br><br>jonmac<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">stagbytriumph@=
triumphstagclub.org</a>&gt; <br>Sent: 02 December 2022 21:34<br>To: 'Dave Co=
nnitt' &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; '=
Randy and Valerie DeRuiter' &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc: 'Triumphs' &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:t=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [TR]=
 Travel and tuning question<br><br>I hear there are a lot of "'deer" on top o=
f Pikes Peak at various times!<br><br>Glenn aka StagByTriumph<br><br>-----Or=
iginal Message-----<br>From: Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs-bounces=
@autox.team.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; On Behalf Of Dave C=
onnitt<br>Sent: Friday, December 2, 2022 10:45 AM<br>To: Randy and Valerie D=
eRuiter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">deruiterville@hotma=
il.com</a>&gt;<br>Cc: Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and tuning que=
stion<br><br>Thanks for the tip Randy! <br>Yea, the trip to Pikes Peak start=
ed from a conversation with some TriState Triumph people at lunch after one o=
f our =E2=80=9Cspirited drives=E2=80=9D. The trip up Pikes Peak was a bucket=
 list goal of one of the couples. I asked my wife if she wanted to go too an=
d after saying yes, she suggested that since we will be out west why not see=
 some other sites? We=E2=80=99re both retired so there=E2=80=99s no hurry ge=
tting back home. There=E2=80=99s about 8 of us going to Pikes Peak so far. I=
 haven=E2=80=99t mentioned our extended trip to the group yet but some of th=
em may want to go with us instead of driving straight back to Cinci.<br><br>=
Thanks again for the electric fuel pump idea!!<br>Tha car is already up on t=
he QuckJack<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,sans-serif"=
>=F0=9F=98=81</span>.<br>Dave and Colleen Connitt<br>FOG 51<br><br>Sent from=
 my iPhone<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;m=
argin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Dec 2, 2022, at 11:56 AM, Rand=
y and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">deru=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br>=EF=BB=BFDave<br><br>Sounds like=
 a great trip - I didn=E2=80=99t make the last tour with my other FOG buddie=
s but when they went through the Rockies the #1 issue at altitude was the me=
chanical fuel pump cavitating due to ethanol gas we think. &nbsp;A couple gu=
ys on the trip hooked up temporary electric pumps and had no issue - no carb=
 adjustments were made for any of them.<br><br>Randy<br>FOG37<br><br>Sent fr=
om my iPhone<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt=
;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Dec 2, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Da=
ve Connitt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br><br>=EF=BB=BFHi all,<br>This coming summer my wife and I are pla=
nning a fairly long trip in my TR4A &nbsp;leaving from Cincinnati, Ohio (alt=
itude approximately 500=E2=80=99). Our first destination is going to be Colo=
rado Springs, Co. to drive up Pikes Peak (altitude approximately 14,115=E2=80=
=99). Then north to Mt. Rushmore (altitude approximately 5,700=E2=80=99), th=
en north to drive through Yellowstone national park (altitude approximately 9=
,200=E2=80=99). That=E2=80=99s going to be quite a swing in altitude and I a=
m wondering if I will have to occasionally tune the SU HS-6 carbs? Has anyon=
e on the list done a similar drive? If so, how did your Triumph run and what=
 did you have to adjust?<br>Thanks in advance!<br>Dave Connitt<br>=E2=80=986=
7 TR4A-IRS<br><a href=3D"http://DavesTR4A.com">DavesTR4A.com</a><br><br>Sent=
 from my iPhone<br>** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">triumphs@au=
tox.team.net</a> **<br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.htm=
l">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.tea=
m.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> &nbsp;<=
a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br><b=
r>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/trium=
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s/[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><br>** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">triumph=
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ockquote></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></div=
></div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2022 20:47:55 -0000

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Hi, Dave,

=20

Very few, if any of the Experimental Engineers made it into the public =
and enthusiast=E2=80=99s eye except for one or two =E2=80=93 and they =
were mainly known only in the UK. Sadly, all but one of them are now =
fixing Heralds in heaven. One of them was the late Ray Henderson from =
the Experimental Department. A lovely, unassuming man who was a =
brilliant engineer of the old school and who could turn his hand to =
fixing the impossible miles from anywhere, told me many stories of his =
experiences. Ray undertook quite a number of trips in development cars =
to far flung destinations and the one about which he was the most =
critical was being one of the crew that drove two or three Heralds =
(pre-launch versions) from Cape Town in South Africa to London. The book =
of that trip was called =E2=80=9CTurn Left at Tangier=E2=80=9D though I =
don=E2=80=99t think Ray provided much of the input to it being written. =
If he had, it=E2=80=99s likely he=E2=80=99d have either lost his job or =
been seriously disciplined on his return. He was scathing in the extreme =
about the whole venture and highly critical of the Company for even =
suggesting the exercise in the first place. In Ray=E2=80=99s view =
=E2=80=93 which I think was shared by all those who went with him on the =
trip, was that the cars were totally unsuited to the journey they made =
and it=E2=80=99s a tribute to Ray and his colleagues that they actually =
managed to get the cars back, so badly were they damaged by the =
appalling so-called roads and no roads at all in crossing the Sahara =
desert. Apart from the unsuitability of the chosen route, none of those =
who took part were given any kind of training or pre-run preparation in =
terms of the types of terrain, culture, language, =
don=E2=80=99t-do=E2=80=99s etc that they would encounter, the very real =
dangers that faced them in going through certain countries where the =
white man definitely was not wanted, through training in basic medicine =
and first aid, treating colleagues for scorpion attacks or snake bite =
and damn all in terms of carrying appropriate medical kits on all the =
vehicles. As I recall, there were three Heralds, one Vanguard estate car =
and a Standard Atlas van with about one and a half tons of parts, tools, =
fuel, water and camping kit =E2=80=93 and just one 948cc engine to drive =
it!!!!! Ray told me that each Herald required at least three rear =
suspension rebuilds en-route, several clutch changes and two or three =
major gearbox failures! I can=E2=80=99t recall the details now, but =
there were so many driveshaft, rear wheel carriers and other vital parts =
failures, that several more were air-freighted out to Nigeria in the =
hope of getting the cars home. I do know all the cars were re-fitted in =
Lagos, Nigeria with locally made radiators that didn=E2=80=99t break or =
crack as a result of vibration. Having spent a lot of time in Africa =
myself, I know what their roads can do and I have a lot of respect for =
local tradespeople on street corners who can do truly amazing things in =
repairing something that looks smashed beyond repair. Anyway, when they =
finally got to Coventry, all the men who had taken part in the event, =
were publicly castigated by Harry Webster, the Director of Engineering =
for submitting trip reports that were critical of a number of =
Webster-inspired features on the Herald in particular. Ray summarised =
that event as =E2=80=9Cthe journey through hell=E2=80=9D and he was very =
critical of Alick Dick (Standard-Triumph=E2=80=99s CEO) and Frank Higham =
(Sales Director) for abdicating the company=E2=80=99s duty of care to =
employees in sending that team of men on what they felt was a dangerous =
and ill thought-out expedition in cars that were totally unsuited to =
that sort of travel in such conditions.

Another of Ray=E2=80=99s unique contributions was the creation of a =
Spitfire whose roadholding was far better than the Sprite/Midget in =
standard spec. It was so good that Webster insisted it should be put in =
the crusher and the concept forgotten. Basically, Ray modified a =
Spitfire taken off the line, substantially reinforced the rear part of =
the bodyshell and re-equipped the car with semi-trailing arms and coil =
springs as per the TR4A but using parts from the Triumph 1300 front =
wheel drive car. Ray did that conversion, on his own, in the Engineering =
workshop in just three weeks =E2=80=93 and without any drawings at all! =
It was all done on =E2=80=9Cif it looks right, it=E2=80=99ll probably be =
right =E2=80=93 and it was. That car was so good it *ought* to have gone =
into production but the costs that would have been incurred in =
completely re-jigging the chassis and doing major work in re-designing =
and strengthening the body tub would have put another GBP50 (@ 1966 =
values)  on the manufacturing cost of the car. Such a cost would have =
translated to an extra GBP250 at retail =E2=80=93 and Webster claimed =
(perhaps correctly?) that this would price the Spitfire out of the =
market and make the Spridget the favoured car for its price, so he threw =
the whole idea out. A terrible shame in its way. All those (few) who =
drove the car =E2=80=93 apart from Webster, were unanimous it was the =
way the Spitfire should have been designed from the start and leading =
that argument was the Company=E2=80=99s chief test driver!

So, a little bit of =E2=80=98behind the scenes=E2=80=99 history for =
those who are interested. Apologies for taking up space they may not =
interest most people.

=20

Jonmac

=20

From: Dave Connitt <[email-masked]>=20
Sent: 06 December 2022 14:04
To: [email-masked]
Cc: Rye Livingston <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]; =
Randy and Valerie DeRuiter <[email-masked]>; Triumphs =
<[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question

=20

That=E2=80=99s interesting Jonmac,

Did any of those shows ever discuss how the drivers handled the =
altitude? Asking for a friend, LOL.

Dave Connitt

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 6, 2022, at 4:12 AM, [email-masked] =

=EF=BB=BF

Back in the day =E2=80=93 like fifty plus years ago, all the larger UK =
car makers undertook extensive altitude testing on all their cars. =
Favourite locations were Europe, Scandinavia, Canadian Rockies, the =
Andes and Iran before the Shah was deposed. Lots of Pike=E2=80=99s Peak =
equivalent places in some of those locations and this sort of testing is =
something many enthusiasts don=E2=80=99t take on board.

=20

Jonmac

=20

Sent: 05 December 2022 19:22
Cc: [email-masked] =
Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question

=20

Before the pandemic I drove my TR3 from sea level in California, to =
Flagstaff Arizona, just shy of 7000=E2=80=99, for Triumphest.  On the =
way home we drove over Tioga Pass going into Yosemite at 9,945 feet.  I =
didn=E2=80=99t adjust anything and it ran well.

=20

Rye

=20

On Dec 4, 2022, at 2:37 AM, [email-masked] =

=20

Agreed. I don=E2=80=99t recall either of those Stags suffering fuel =
starvation or 'altitude' sickness. One on SU's, the other on Strombergs. =
Must admit I was glad when we did the descent as the altitude was doing =
me no good at all. That said, a great drive in both directions, a fine =
day and an amazing view at the summit.

jonmac

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] =
<[email-masked] =
Sent: 02 December 2022 21:34
'Randy and Valerie DeRuiter' <[email-masked] =
Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question

I hear there are a lot of "'deer" on top of Pikes Peak at various times!

Glenn aka StagByTriumph

-----Original Message-----
From: Triumphs <[email-masked] =
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2022 10:45 AM
To: Randy and Valerie DeRuiter <[email-masked] =
Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question

Thanks for the tip Randy!=20
Yea, the trip to Pikes Peak started from a conversation with some =
TriState Triumph people at lunch after one of our =E2=80=9Cspirited =
drives=E2=80=9D. The trip up Pikes Peak was a bucket list goal of one of =
the couples. I asked my wife if she wanted to go too and after saying =
yes, she suggested that since we will be out west why not see some other =
sites? We=E2=80=99re both retired so there=E2=80=99s no hurry getting =
back home. There=E2=80=99s about 8 of us going to Pikes Peak so far. I =
haven=E2=80=99t mentioned our extended trip to the group yet but some of =
them may want to go with us instead of driving straight back to Cinci.

Thanks again for the electric fuel pump idea!!
Tha car is already up on the QuckJack=F0=9F=98=81.
Dave and Colleen Connitt
FOG 51

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 2, 2022, at 11:56 AM, Randy and Valerie DeRuiter =

=EF=BB=BFDave

Sounds like a great trip - I didn=E2=80=99t make the last tour with my =
other FOG buddies but when they went through the Rockies the #1 issue at =
altitude was the mechanical fuel pump cavitating due to ethanol gas we =
think.  A couple guys on the trip hooked up temporary electric pumps and =
had no issue - no carb adjustments were made for any of them.

Randy
FOG37

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 2, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Dave Connitt <[email-masked] =

=EF=BB=BFHi all,
This coming summer my wife and I are planning a fairly long trip in my =
TR4A  leaving from Cincinnati, Ohio (altitude approximately =
500=E2=80=99). Our first destination is going to be Colorado Springs, =
Co. to drive up Pikes Peak (altitude approximately 14,115=E2=80=99). =
Then north to Mt. Rushmore (altitude approximately 5,700=E2=80=99), then =
north to drive through Yellowstone national park (altitude approximately =
9,200=E2=80=99). That=E2=80=99s going to be quite a swing in altitude =
and I am wondering if I will have to occasionally tune the SU HS-6 =
carbs? Has anyone on the list done a similar drive? If so, how did your =
Triumph run and what did you have to adjust?
Thanks in advance!
Dave Connitt
=E2=80=9867 TR4A-IRS
DavesTR4A.com <http://DavesTR4A.com>=20

Sent from my iPhone

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  =

http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  =

http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/stagbytriumph@triumphstagc=
lub.org

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  =

http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

=20

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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi, Dave,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Very few, =
if any of the Experimental Engineers made it into the public and =
enthusiast=E2=80=99s eye except for one or two =E2=80=93 and they were =
mainly known only in the UK. Sadly, all but one of them are now fixing =
Heralds in heaven. One of them was the late Ray Henderson from the =
Experimental Department. A lovely, unassuming man who was a brilliant =
engineer of the old school and who could turn his hand to fixing the =
impossible miles from anywhere, told me many stories of his experiences. =
Ray undertook quite a number of trips in development cars to far flung =
destinations and the one about which he was the most critical was being =
one of the crew that drove two or three Heralds (pre-launch versions) =
from Cape Town in South Africa to London. The book of that trip was =
called =E2=80=9CTurn Left at Tangier=E2=80=9D though I don=E2=80=99t =
think Ray provided much of the input to it being written. If he had, =
it=E2=80=99s likely he=E2=80=99d have either lost his job or been =
seriously disciplined on his return. He was scathing in the extreme =
about the whole venture and highly critical of the Company for even =
suggesting the exercise in the first place. In Ray=E2=80=99s view =
=E2=80=93 which I think was shared by all those who went with him on the =
trip, was that the cars were totally unsuited to the journey they made =
and it=E2=80=99s a tribute to Ray and his colleagues that they actually =
managed to get the cars back, so badly were they damaged by the =
appalling so-called roads and no roads at all in crossing the Sahara =
desert. Apart from the unsuitability of the chosen route, none of those =
who took part were given any kind of training or pre-run preparation in =
terms of the types of terrain, culture, language, =
don=E2=80=99t-do=E2=80=99s etc that they would encounter, the very real =
dangers that faced them in going through certain countries where the =
white man definitely was not wanted, through training in basic medicine =
and first aid, treating colleagues for scorpion attacks or snake bite =
and damn all in terms of carrying appropriate medical kits on all the =
vehicles. As I recall, there were three Heralds, one Vanguard estate car =
and a Standard Atlas van with about one and a half tons of parts, tools, =
fuel, water and camping kit =E2=80=93 and just one 948cc engine to drive =
it!!!!! Ray told me that each Herald required at least three rear =
suspension rebuilds en-route, several clutch changes and two or three =
major gearbox failures! I can=E2=80=99t recall the details now, but =
there were so many driveshaft, rear wheel carriers and other vital parts =
failures, that several more were air-freighted out to Nigeria in the =
hope of getting the cars home. I do know all the cars were re-fitted in =
Lagos, Nigeria with locally made radiators that didn=E2=80=99t break or =
crack as a result of vibration. Having spent a lot of time in Africa =
myself, I know what their roads can do and I have a lot of respect for =
local tradespeople on street corners who can do truly amazing things in =
repairing something that looks smashed beyond repair. Anyway, when they =
finally got to Coventry, all the men who had taken part in the event, =
were publicly castigated by Harry Webster, the Director of Engineering =
for submitting trip reports that were critical of a number of =
Webster-inspired features on the Herald in particular. Ray summarised =
that event as =E2=80=9Cthe journey through hell=E2=80=9D and he was very =
critical of Alick Dick (Standard-Triumph=E2=80=99s CEO) and Frank Higham =
(Sales Director) for abdicating the company=E2=80=99s duty of care to =
employees in sending that team of men on what they felt was a dangerous =
and ill thought-out expedition in cars that were totally unsuited to =
that sort of travel in such conditions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Another of =
Ray=E2=80=99s unique contributions was the creation of a Spitfire whose =
roadholding was far better than the Sprite/Midget in standard spec. It =
was so good that Webster insisted it should be put in the crusher and =
the concept forgotten. Basically, Ray modified a Spitfire taken off the =
line, substantially reinforced the rear part of the bodyshell and =
re-equipped the car with semi-trailing arms and coil springs as per the =
TR4A but using parts from the Triumph 1300 front wheel drive car. Ray =
did that conversion, on his own, in the Engineering workshop in just =
three weeks =E2=80=93 and without any drawings at all! It was all done =
on =E2=80=9Cif it looks right, it=E2=80=99ll probably be right =E2=80=93 =
and it was. That car was so good it *<b>ought</b>* to have gone into =
production but the costs that would have been incurred in completely =
re-jigging the chassis and doing major work in re-designing and =
strengthening the body tub would have put another GBP50 (@ 1966 values) =
=C2=A0on the manufacturing cost of the car. Such a cost would have =
translated to an extra GBP250 at retail =E2=80=93 and Webster claimed =
(perhaps correctly?) that this would price the Spitfire out of the =
market and make the Spridget the favoured car for its price, so he threw =
the whole idea out. A terrible shame in its way. All those (few) who =
drove the car =E2=80=93 apart from Webster, were unanimous it was the =
way the Spitfire should have been designed from the start and leading =
that argument was the Company=E2=80=99s chief test =
driver!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>So, a little bit of =E2=80=98behind =
the scenes=E2=80=99 history for those who are interested. Apologies for =
taking up space they may not interest most =
people.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jonmac<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm;font-size:pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Dave Connitt =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> 06 December 2022 =
14:04<br><b>To:</b> [email-masked]<br><b>Cc:</b> Rye Livingston =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;; [email-masked]; Randy and =
Valerie DeRuiter &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Triumphs =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Travel and =
tuning question<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>That=E2=80=99s interesting =
Jonmac,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Did any of those shows =
ever discuss how the drivers handled the altitude? Asking for a friend, =
LOL.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Dave Connitt<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Dec 6, 2022, at 4:12 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>=EF=BB=BF<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Back in the day =E2=80=93 like =
fifty plus years ago, all the larger UK car makers undertook extensive =
altitude testing on all their cars. Favourite locations were Europe, =
Scandinavia, Canadian Rockies, the Andes and Iran before the Shah was =
deposed. Lots of Pike=E2=80=99s Peak equivalent places in some of those =
locations and this sort of testing is something many enthusiasts =
don=E2=80=99t take on board.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jonmac</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm;font-size:pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Rye Livingston =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
<br><b>Sent:</b> 05 December 2022 19:22<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><b>C=
c:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">stagbytriumph@triumphst=
agclub.org</a>; Dave Connitt &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Randy and =
Valerie DeRuiter &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t;; Triumphs &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<b=
r><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Travel and tuning =
question<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Before the =
pandemic I drove my TR3 from sea level in California, to Flagstaff =
Arizona, just shy of 7000=E2=80=99, for Triumphest. &nbsp;On the way =
home we drove over Tioga Pass going into Yosemite at 9,945 feet. &nbsp;I =
didn=E2=80=99t adjust anything and it ran well.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Rye<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&lt;image001.jpg&gt;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On Dec 4, 2022, at 2:37 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Agreed. I don=E2=80=99t recall either of those Stags =
suffering fuel starvation or 'altitude' sickness. One on SU's, the other =
on Strombergs. Must admit I was glad when we did the descent as the =
altitude was doing me no good at all. That said, a great drive in both =
directions, a fine day and an amazing view at the =
summit.<br><br>jonmac<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">stagbytriumph@triumphst=
agclub.org</a> &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">stagbytriumph@triumphst=
agclub.org</a>&gt; <br>Sent: 02 December 2022 21:34<br>To: 'Dave =
Connitt' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; 'Randy and =
Valerie DeRuiter' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t;<br>Cc: 'Triumphs' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<b=
r>Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question<br><br>I hear there are a =
lot of &quot;'deer&quot; on top of Pikes Peak at various =
times!<br><br>Glenn aka StagByTriumph<br><br>-----Original =
Message-----<br>From: Triumphs &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
am.net</a>&gt; On Behalf Of Dave Connitt<br>Sent: Friday, December 2, =
2022 10:45 AM<br>To: Randy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t;<br>Cc: Triumphs &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<b=
r>Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question<br><br>Thanks for the tip =
Randy! <br>Yea, the trip to Pikes Peak started from a conversation with =
some TriState Triumph people at lunch after one of our =E2=80=9Cspirited =
drives=E2=80=9D. The trip up Pikes Peak was a bucket list goal of one of =
the couples. I asked my wife if she wanted to go too and after saying =
yes, she suggested that since we will be out west why not see some other =
sites? We=E2=80=99re both retired so there=E2=80=99s no hurry getting =
back home. There=E2=80=99s about 8 of us going to Pikes Peak so far. I =
haven=E2=80=99t mentioned our extended trip to the group yet but some of =
them may want to go with us instead of driving straight back to =
Cinci.<br><br>Thanks again for the electric fuel pump idea!!<br>Tha car =
is already up on the QuckJack<span style=3D'font-family:"Segoe UI =
Emoji",sans-serif'>&#128513;</span>.<br>Dave and Colleen Connitt<br>FOG =
51<br><br>Sent from my iPhone<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Dec 2, 2022, at 11:56 AM, Randy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br><br>=EF=BB=BFDave<br><br>Sounds like a great trip - I =
didn=E2=80=99t make the last tour with my other FOG buddies but when =
they went through the Rockies the #1 issue at altitude was the =
mechanical fuel pump cavitating due to ethanol gas we think. &nbsp;A =
couple guys on the trip hooked up temporary electric pumps and had no =
issue - no carb adjustments were made for any of =
them.<br><br>Randy<br>FOG37<br><br>Sent from my =
iPhone<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Dec 2, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Dave Connitt &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br><br>=EF=BB=BFHi all,<br>This coming summer my wife and I are =
planning a fairly long trip in my TR4A &nbsp;leaving from Cincinnati, =
Ohio (altitude approximately 500=E2=80=99). Our first destination is =
going to be Colorado Springs, Co. to drive up Pikes Peak (altitude =
approximately 14,115=E2=80=99). Then north to Mt. Rushmore (altitude =
approximately 5,700=E2=80=99), then north to drive through Yellowstone =
national park (altitude approximately 9,200=E2=80=99). That=E2=80=99s =
going to be quite a swing in altitude and I am wondering if I will have =
to occasionally tune the SU HS-6 carbs? Has anyone on the list done a =
similar drive? If so, how did your Triumph run and what did you have to =
adjust?<br>Thanks in advance!<br>Dave Connitt<br>=E2=80=9867 =
TR4A-IRS<br><a =
href=3D"http://DavesTR4A.com">DavesTR4A.com</a><br><br>Sent from my =
iPhone<br>** <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> =
**<br><br>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
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From: Dave Connitt <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2022 18:23:13 -0500

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">That=E2=80=99s a great story!<div>Thanks,</=
div><div>Dave Connitt<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Dec 6, 2022, at 3:48 PM, johnbma=
[email-masked] wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><=
div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/h=
tml; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (=
filtered medium)"><style>@font-face { font-family: "Cambria Math"; }
@font-face { font-family: Calibri; }
@font-face { font-family: "Segoe UI Emoji"; }
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; fon=
t-family: Calibri, sans-serif; }
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink { color: blue; text-decoration: underline; }
span.EmailStyle21 { font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext; }
.MsoChpDefault { font-size: 10pt; }
@page WordSection1 { size: 612pt 792pt; margin: 72pt; }
div.WordSection1 { page: WordSection1; }</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi, Dave,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-l=
anguage:EN-US">Very few, if any of the Experimental Engineers made it into t=
he public and enthusiast=E2=80=99s eye except for one or two =E2=80=93 and t=
hey were mainly known only in the UK. Sadly, all but one of them are now fix=
ing Heralds in heaven. One of them was the late Ray Henderson from the Exper=
imental Department. A lovely, unassuming man who was a brilliant engineer of=
 the old school and who could turn his hand to fixing the impossible miles f=
rom anywhere, told me many stories of his experiences. Ray undertook quite a=
 number of trips in development cars to far flung destinations and the one a=
bout which he was the most critical was being one of the crew that drove two=
 or three Heralds (pre-launch versions) from Cape Town in South Africa to Lo=
ndon. The book of that trip was called =E2=80=9CTurn Left at Tangier=E2=80=9D=
 though I don=E2=80=99t think Ray provided much of the input to it being wri=
tten. If he had, it=E2=80=99s likely he=E2=80=99d have either lost his job o=
r been seriously disciplined on his return. He was scathing in the extreme a=
bout the whole venture and highly critical of the Company for even suggestin=
g the exercise in the first place. In Ray=E2=80=99s view =E2=80=93 which I t=
hink was shared by all those who went with him on the trip, was that the car=
s were totally unsuited to the journey they made and it=E2=80=99s a tribute t=
o Ray and his colleagues that they actually managed to get the cars back, so=
 badly were they damaged by the appalling so-called roads and no roads at al=
l in crossing the Sahara desert. Apart from the unsuitability of the chosen r=
oute, none of those who took part were given any kind of training or pre-run=
 preparation in terms of the types of terrain, culture, language, don=E2=80=99=
t-do=E2=80=99s etc that they would encounter, the very real dangers that fac=
ed them in going through certain countries where the white man definitely wa=
s not wanted, through training in basic medicine and first aid, treating col=
leagues for scorpion attacks or snake bite and damn all in terms of carrying=
 appropriate medical kits on all the vehicles. As I recall, there were three=
 Heralds, one Vanguard estate car and a Standard Atlas van with about one an=
d a half tons of parts, tools, fuel, water and camping kit =E2=80=93 and jus=
t one 948cc engine to drive it!!!!! Ray told me that each Herald required at=
 least three rear suspension rebuilds en-route, several clutch changes and t=
wo or three major gearbox failures! I can=E2=80=99t recall the details now, b=
ut there were so many driveshaft, rear wheel carriers and other vital parts f=
ailures, that several more were air-freighted out to Nigeria in the hope of g=
etting the cars home. I do know all the cars were re-fitted in Lagos, Nigeri=
a with locally made radiators that didn=E2=80=99t break or crack as a result=
 of vibration. Having spent a lot of time in Africa myself, I know what thei=
r roads can do and I have a lot of respect for local tradespeople on street c=
orners who can do truly amazing things in repairing something that looks sma=
shed beyond repair. Anyway, when they finally got to Coventry, all the men w=
ho had taken part in the event, were publicly castigated by Harry Webster, t=
he Director of Engineering for submitting trip reports that were critical of=
 a number of Webster-inspired features on the Herald in particular. Ray summ=
arised that event as =E2=80=9Cthe journey through hell=E2=80=9D and he was v=
ery critical of Alick Dick (Standard-Triumph=E2=80=99s CEO) and Frank Higham=
 (Sales Director) for abdicating the company=E2=80=99s duty of care to emplo=
yees in sending that team of men on what they felt was a dangerous and ill t=
hought-out expedition in cars that were totally unsuited to that sort of tra=
vel in such conditions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Another of Ray=E2=80=99s unique contribut=
ions was the creation of a Spitfire whose roadholding was far better than th=
e Sprite/Midget in standard spec. It was so good that Webster insisted it sh=
ould be put in the crusher and the concept forgotten. Basically, Ray modifie=
d a Spitfire taken off the line, substantially reinforced the rear part of t=
he bodyshell and re-equipped the car with semi-trailing arms and coil spring=
s as per the TR4A but using parts from the Triumph 1300 front wheel drive ca=
r. Ray did that conversion, on his own, in the Engineering workshop in just t=
hree weeks =E2=80=93 and without any drawings at all! It was all done on =E2=
=80=9Cif it looks right, it=E2=80=99ll probably be right =E2=80=93 and it wa=
s. That car was so good it *<b>ought</b>* to have gone into production but t=
he costs that would have been incurred in completely re-jigging the chassis a=
nd doing major work in re-designing and strengthening the body tub would hav=
e put another GBP50 (@ 1966 values) &nbsp;on the manufacturing cost of the c=
ar. Such a cost would have translated to an extra GBP250 at retail =E2=80=93=
 and Webster claimed (perhaps correctly?) that this would price the Spitfire=
 out of the market and make the Spridget the favoured car for its price, so h=
e threw the whole idea out. A terrible shame in its way. All those (few) who=
 drove the car =E2=80=93 apart from Webster, were unanimous it was the way t=
he Spitfire should have been designed from the start and leading that argume=
nt was the Company=E2=80=99s chief test driver!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">So, a little bit o=
f =E2=80=98behind the scenes=E2=80=99 history for those who are interested. A=
pologies for taking up space they may not interest most people.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast=
-language:EN-US">Jonmac<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div sty=
le=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;f=
ont-size:pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Connitt &lt;dconnitt@f=
use.net&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> 06 December 2022 14:04<br><b>To:</b> johnbmacar=
[email-masked]<br><b>Cc:</b> Rye Livingston &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; stagbytriump=
[email-masked]; Randy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;deruiterville@hotmail.=
com&gt;; Triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR=
] Travel and tuning question<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">That=E2=80=99s interesting Jon=
mac,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Did any of those shows ever d=
iscuss how the drivers handled the altitude? Asking for a friend, LOL.<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Da=
ve Connitt<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<o:p=
></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Dec 6, 2022, at 4:12 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:j=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blo=
ckquote></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=EF=BB=BF<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Back in the day =E2=80=93 like fifty p=
lus years ago, all the larger UK car makers undertook extensive altitude tes=
ting on all their cars. Favourite locations were Europe, Scandinavia, Canadi=
an Rockies, the Andes and Iran before the Shah was deposed. Lots of Pike=E2=80=
=99s Peak equivalent places in some of those locations and this sort of test=
ing is something many enthusiasts don=E2=80=99t take on board.</span><o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">&n=
bsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-=
language:EN-US">Jonmac</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span sty=
le=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div styl=
e=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;fo=
nt-size:pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Rye Livingston &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> 05 December 2022=
 19:22<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">johnbmacartne=
[email-masked]</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:stagbytriumph@triumphstagclub.=
org">[email-masked]</a>; Dave Connitt &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Randy and Valerie DeRuiter &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a=
>&gt;; Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">triumphs@auto=
x.team.net</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question<o:=
p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">Before the pandemic I drove my TR3 from sea level in Californ=
ia, to Flagstaff Arizona, just shy of 7000=E2=80=99, for Triumphest. &nbsp;O=
n the way home we drove over Tioga Pass going into Yosemite at 9,945 feet. &=
nbsp;I didn=E2=80=99t adjust anything and it ran well.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
Rye<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><di=
v><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt;image001.jpg&gt;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D"margi=
n-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Dec 4, 2022,=
 at 2:37 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
m</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p=
><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Agreed. I don=E2=80=99t recall either of t=
hose Stags suffering fuel starvation or 'altitude' sickness. One on SU's, th=
e other on Strombergs. Must admit I was glad when we did the descent as the a=
ltitude was doing me no good at all. That said, a great drive in both direct=
ions, a fine day and an amazing view at the summit.<br><br>jonmac<br><br>---=
--Original Message-----<br>From: <a href=3D"mailto:stagbytriumph@triumphstag=
club.org">[email-masked]</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stagby=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br>S=
ent: 02 December 2022 21:34<br>To: 'Dave Connitt' &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dcon=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; 'Randy and Valerie DeRuiter' &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
;<br>Cc: 'Triumphs' &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">triumphs@=
autox.team.net</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question<br><b=
r>I hear there are a lot of "'deer" on top of Pikes Peak at various times!<b=
r><br>Glenn aka StagByTriumph<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Tri=
umphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">triumphs-bounce=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; On Behalf Of Dave Connitt<br>Sent: Friday, December=
 2, 2022 10:45 AM<br>To: Randy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:de=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc: Triumphs &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
;<br>Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question<br><br>Thanks for the tip R=
andy! <br>Yea, the trip to Pikes Peak started from a conversation with some T=
riState Triumph people at lunch after one of our =E2=80=9Cspirited drives=E2=
=80=9D. The trip up Pikes Peak was a bucket list goal of one of the couples.=
 I asked my wife if she wanted to go too and after saying yes, she suggested=
 that since we will be out west why not see some other sites? We=E2=80=99re b=
oth retired so there=E2=80=99s no hurry getting back home. There=E2=80=99s a=
bout 8 of us going to Pikes Peak so far. I haven=E2=80=99t mentioned our ext=
ended trip to the group yet but some of them may want to go with us instead o=
f driving straight back to Cinci.<br><br>Thanks again for the electric fuel p=
ump idea!!<br>Tha car is already up on the QuckJack<span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,sans-serif">=F0=9F=98=81</span>.<br>Dave and Co=
lleen Connitt<br>FOG 51<br><br>Sent from my iPhone<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p=
></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal">On Dec 2, 2022, at 11:56 AM, Randy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wr=
ote:<br><br>=EF=BB=BFDave<br><br>Sounds like a great trip - I didn=E2=80=99t=
 make the last tour with my other FOG buddies but when they went through the=
 Rockies the #1 issue at altitude was the mechanical fuel pump cavitating du=
e to ethanol gas we think. &nbsp;A couple guys on the trip hooked up tempora=
ry electric pumps and had no issue - no carb adjustments were made for any o=
f them.<br><br>Randy<br>FOG37<br><br>Sent from my iPhone<br><br><br><br><o:p=
></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal">On Dec 2, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Dave Connitt &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br>=EF=BB=BFHi a=
ll,<br>This coming summer my wife and I are planning a fairly long trip in m=
y TR4A &nbsp;leaving from Cincinnati, Ohio (altitude approximately 500=E2=80=
=99). Our first destination is going to be Colorado Springs, Co. to drive up=
 Pikes Peak (altitude approximately 14,115=E2=80=99). Then north to Mt. Rush=
more (altitude approximately 5,700=E2=80=99), then north to drive through Ye=
llowstone national park (altitude approximately 9,200=E2=80=99). That=E2=80=99=
s going to be quite a swing in altitude and I am wondering if I will have to=
 occasionally tune the SU HS-6 carbs? Has anyone on the list done a similar d=
rive? If so, how did your Triumph run and what did you have to adjust?<br>Th=
anks in advance!<br>Dave Connitt<br>=E2=80=9867 TR4A-IRS<br><a href=3D"http:=
//DavesTR4A.com">DavesTR4A.com</a><br><br>Sent from my iPhone<br>** <a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **<br><br>Donat=
e: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.ht=
ml</a><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http:/=
/www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/ar=
chive">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D=
"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]">h=
ttp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><=
o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>** <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **<br><br>D=
onate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donat=
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mphstagclub.org</a><br><br>** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">tri=
[email-masked]</a> **<br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/do=
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rmal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div>=
</blockquote></div></body></html>=

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---

From: Greg Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 13:26:38 -0600

--===============7410043119990099503==

--000000000000f926e105ef5604d0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

That is great stuff, thanks John.  The Sprite/Spitfire competition must
have been pretty fierce, there were possibilities for improving the Sprite
too, like using the Cooper S version of the 1275 A series.  But that would
have made the Sprite as quick or quicker than a Spitfire but also as fast
or faster than an MGB, and of course the car would have been more
expensive.  They always built the cars to a price didn't they? Fun to think
of what might have been, and also fun to cobble up our own modern versions
of the factory hot rods.

Greg Lemon

On Thu, Dec 8, 2022, 12:20 PM <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Hi, Dave,
>
>
>
> Very few, if any of the Experimental Engineers made it into the public an=
d
> enthusiast=E2=80=99s eye except for one or two =E2=80=93 and they were ma=
inly known only in
> the UK. Sadly, all but one of them are now fixing Heralds in heaven. One =
of
> them was the late Ray Henderson from the Experimental Department. A lovel=
y,
> unassuming man who was a brilliant engineer of the old school and who cou=
ld
> turn his hand to fixing the impossible miles from anywhere, told me many
> stories of his experiences. Ray undertook quite a number of trips in
> development cars to far flung destinations and the one about which he was
> the most critical was being one of the crew that drove two or three Heral=
ds
> (pre-launch versions) from Cape Town in South Africa to London. The book =
of
> that trip was called =E2=80=9CTurn Left at Tangier=E2=80=9D though I don=
=E2=80=99t think Ray
> provided much of the input to it being written. If he had, it=E2=80=99s l=
ikely he=E2=80=99d
> have either lost his job or been seriously disciplined on his return. He
> was scathing in the extreme about the whole venture and highly critical o=
f
> the Company for even suggesting the exercise in the first place. In Ray=
=E2=80=99s
> view =E2=80=93 which I think was shared by all those who went with him on=
 the trip,
> was that the cars were totally unsuited to the journey they made and it=
=E2=80=99s a
> tribute to Ray and his colleagues that they actually managed to get the
> cars back, so badly were they damaged by the appalling so-called roads an=
d
> no roads at all in crossing the Sahara desert. Apart from the unsuitabili=
ty
> of the chosen route, none of those who took part were given any kind of
> training or pre-run preparation in terms of the types of terrain, culture=
,
> language, don=E2=80=99t-do=E2=80=99s etc that they would encounter, the v=
ery real dangers
> that faced them in going through certain countries where the white man
> definitely was not wanted, through training in basic medicine and first
> aid, treating colleagues for scorpion attacks or snake bite and damn all =
in
> terms of carrying appropriate medical kits on all the vehicles. As I
> recall, there were three Heralds, one Vanguard estate car and a Standard
> Atlas van with about one and a half tons of parts, tools, fuel, water and
> camping kit =E2=80=93 and just one 948cc engine to drive it!!!!! Ray told=
 me that
> each Herald required at least three rear suspension rebuilds en-route,
> several clutch changes and two or three major gearbox failures! I can=E2=
=80=99t
> recall the details now, but there were so many driveshaft, rear wheel
> carriers and other vital parts failures, that several more were
> air-freighted out to Nigeria in the hope of getting the cars home. I do
> know all the cars were re-fitted in Lagos, Nigeria with locally made
> radiators that didn=E2=80=99t break or crack as a result of vibration. Ha=
ving spent
> a lot of time in Africa myself, I know what their roads can do and I have=
 a
> lot of respect for local tradespeople on street corners who can do truly
> amazing things in repairing something that looks smashed beyond repair.
> Anyway, when they finally got to Coventry, all the men who had taken part
> in the event, were publicly castigated by Harry Webster, the Director of
> Engineering for submitting trip reports that were critical of a number of
> Webster-inspired features on the Herald in particular. Ray summarised tha=
t
> event as =E2=80=9Cthe journey through hell=E2=80=9D and he was very criti=
cal of Alick Dick
> (Standard-Triumph=E2=80=99s CEO) and Frank Higham (Sales Director) for ab=
dicating
> the company=E2=80=99s duty of care to employees in sending that team of m=
en on what
> they felt was a dangerous and ill thought-out expedition in cars that wer=
e
> totally unsuited to that sort of travel in such conditions.
>
> Another of Ray=E2=80=99s unique contributions was the creation of a Spitf=
ire whose
> roadholding was far better than the Sprite/Midget in standard spec. It wa=
s
> so good that Webster insisted it should be put in the crusher and the
> concept forgotten. Basically, Ray modified a Spitfire taken off the line,
> substantially reinforced the rear part of the bodyshell and re-equipped t=
he
> car with semi-trailing arms and coil springs as per the TR4A but using
> parts from the Triumph 1300 front wheel drive car. Ray did that conversio=
n,
> on his own, in the Engineering workshop in just three weeks =E2=80=93 and=
 without
> any drawings at all! It was all done on =E2=80=9Cif it looks right, it=E2=
=80=99ll probably
> be right =E2=80=93 and it was. That car was so good it **ought** to have =
gone
> into production but the costs that would have been incurred in completely
> re-jigging the chassis and doing major work in re-designing and
on
> the manufacturing cost of the car. Such a cost would have translated to a=
n
> extra GBP250 at retail =E2=80=93 and Webster claimed (perhaps correctly?)=
 that this
> would price the Spitfire out of the market and make the Spridget the
> favoured car for its price, so he threw the whole idea out. A terrible
> shame in its way. All those (few) who drove the car =E2=80=93 apart from =
Webster,
> were unanimous it was the way the Spitfire should have been designed from
> the start and leading that argument was the Company=E2=80=99s chief test =
driver!
>
> So, a little bit of =E2=80=98behind the scenes=E2=80=99 history for those=
 who are
> interested. Apologies for taking up space they may not interest most peop=
le.
>
>
>
> Jonmac
>
>
>
> *From:* Dave Connitt <[email-masked]>
> *Sent:* 06 December 2022 14:04
> *To:* [email-masked]
> *Cc:* Rye Livingston <[email-masked]>; [email-masked];
> Randy and Valerie DeRuiter <[email-masked]>; Triumphs <
> [email-masked]>
> *Subject:* Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question
>
>
>
> Did any of those shows ever discuss how the drivers handled the altitude?
> Asking for a friend, LOL.
>
> Dave Connitt
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Dec 6, 2022, at 4:12 AM, [email-masked] wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
>
> Back in the day =E2=80=93 like fifty plus years ago, all the larger UK ca=
r makers
> undertook extensive altitude testing on all their cars. Favourite locatio=
ns
> were Europe, Scandinavia, Canadian Rockies, the Andes and Iran before the
> Shah was deposed. Lots of Pike=E2=80=99s Peak equivalent places in some o=
f those
> locations and this sort of testing is something many enthusiasts don=E2=
=80=99t take
> on board.
>
>
>
> Jonmac
>
>
>
> *From:* Rye Livingston <[email-masked]>
> *Sent:* 05 December 2022 19:22
> *To:* [email-masked]
> *Cc:* [email-masked]; Dave Connitt <[email-masked]>=
;
> Randy and Valerie DeRuiter <[email-masked]>; Triumphs <
> [email-masked]>
> *Subject:* Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question
>
>
>
> Before the pandemic I drove my TR3 from sea level in California, to
> Flagstaff Arizona, just shy of 7000=E2=80=99, for Triumphest.  On the way=
 home we
> drove over Tioga Pass going into Yosemite at 9,945 feet.  I didn=E2=80=99=
t adjust
> anything and it ran well.
>
>
>
> Rye
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 4, 2022, at 2:37 AM, [email-masked] wrote:
>
>
>
> Agreed. I don=E2=80=99t recall either of those Stags suffering fuel starv=
ation or
> 'altitude' sickness. One on SU's, the other on Strombergs. Must admit I w=
as
> glad when we did the descent as the altitude was doing me no good at all.
> That said, a great drive in both directions, a fine day and an amazing vi=
ew
> at the summit.
> From: [email-masked] <[email-masked]=
g>
> To: 'Dave Connitt' <[email-masked]>; 'Randy and Valerie DeRuiter' <
> [email-masked]>
> Cc: 'Triumphs' <[email-masked]>
> From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Dave Connit=
t
> To: Randy and Valerie DeRuiter <[email-masked]>
> Cc: Triumphs <[email-masked]>
> Thanks for the tip Randy!
> Yea, the trip to Pikes Peak started from a conversation with some TriStat=
e
> Triumph people at lunch after one of our =E2=80=9Cspirited drives=E2=80=
=9D. The trip up
> Pikes Peak was a bucket list goal of one of the couples. I asked my wife =
if
> she wanted to go too and after saying yes, she suggested that since we wi=
ll
> be out west why not see some other sites? We=E2=80=99re both retired so t=
here=E2=80=99s no
> hurry getting back home. There=E2=80=99s about 8 of us going to Pikes Pea=
k so far.
> I haven=E2=80=99t mentioned our extended trip to the group yet but some o=
f them may
> want to go with us instead of driving straight back to Cinci.
>
> On Dec 2, 2022, at 11:56 AM, Randy and Valerie DeRuiter <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BFDave
>
> Sounds like a great trip - I didn=E2=80=99t make the last tour with my ot=
her FOG
> buddies but when they went through the Rockies the #1 issue at altitude w=
as
> the mechanical fuel pump cavitating due to ethanol gas we think.  A coupl=
e
> guys on the trip hooked up temporary electric pumps and had no issue - no
> carb adjustments were made for any of them.
>
> Randy
> FOG37
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Dec 2, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Dave Connitt <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BFHi all,
> This coming summer my wife and I are planning a fairly long trip in my
> TR4A  leaving from Cincinnati, Ohio (altitude approximately 500=E2=80=99)=
. Our
> first destination is going to be Colorado Springs, Co. to drive up Pikes
> Peak (altitude approximately 14,115=E2=80=99). Then north to Mt. Rushmore=
 (altitude
> approximately 5,700=E2=80=99), then north to drive through Yellowstone na=
tional
> park (altitude approximately 9,200=E2=80=99). That=E2=80=99s going to be =
quite a swing in
> altitude and I am wondering if I will have to occasionally tune the SU HS=
-6
> carbs? Has anyone on the list done a similar drive? If so, how did your
> DavesTR4A.com
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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lub.org
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>

--000000000000f926e105ef5604d0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">That is great stuff, thanks John.=C2=A0 The Sprite/Spitfi=
re competition must have been pretty fierce, there were possibilities for i=
mproving the Sprite too, like using the Cooper S version of the 1275 A seri=
es.=C2=A0 But that would have made the Sprite as quick or quicker than a Sp=
itfire but also as fast or faster than an MGB, and of course the car would =
have been more expensive.=C2=A0 They always built the cars to a price didn&=
#39;t they? Fun to think of what might have been, and also fun to cobble up=
 our own modern versions of the factory hot rods.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto">Greg Lemon</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 8, 2022, 12:20 PM  &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x"><div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:br=
eak-word"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Hi, Dave,<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span>Very few, if any of the Experimental Engineers made it int=
o the public and enthusiast=E2=80=99s eye except for one or two =E2=80=93 a=
nd they were mainly known only in the UK. Sadly, all but one of them are no=
w fixing Heralds in heaven. One of them was the late Ray Henderson from the=
 Experimental Department. A lovely, unassuming man who was a brilliant engi=
neer of the old school and who could turn his hand to fixing the impossible=
 miles from anywhere, told me many stories of his experiences. Ray undertoo=
k quite a number of trips in development cars to far flung destinations and=
 the one about which he was the most critical was being one of the crew tha=
t drove two or three Heralds (pre-launch versions) from Cape Town in South =
Africa to London. The book of that trip was called =E2=80=9CTurn Left at Ta=
ngier=E2=80=9D though I don=E2=80=99t think Ray provided much of the input =
to it being written. If he had, it=E2=80=99s likely he=E2=80=99d have eithe=
r lost his job or been seriously disciplined on his return. He was scathing=
 in the extreme about the whole venture and highly critical of the Company =
for even suggesting the exercise in the first place. In Ray=E2=80=99s view =
=E2=80=93 which I think was shared by all those who went with him on the tr=
ip, was that the cars were totally unsuited to the journey they made and it=
=E2=80=99s a tribute to Ray and his colleagues that they actually managed t=
o get the cars back, so badly were they damaged by the appalling so-called =
roads and no roads at all in crossing the Sahara desert. Apart from the uns=
uitability of the chosen route, none of those who took part were given any =
kind of training or pre-run preparation in terms of the types of terrain, c=
ulture, language, don=E2=80=99t-do=E2=80=99s etc that they would encounter,=
 the very real dangers that faced them in going through certain countries w=
here the white man definitely was not wanted, through training in basic med=
icine and first aid, treating colleagues for scorpion attacks or snake bite=
 and damn all in terms of carrying appropriate medical kits on all the vehi=
cles. As I recall, there were three Heralds, one Vanguard estate car and a =
Standard Atlas van with about one and a half tons of parts, tools, fuel, wa=
ter and camping kit =E2=80=93 and just one 948cc engine to drive it!!!!! Ra=
y told me that each Herald required at least three rear suspension rebuilds=
 en-route, several clutch changes and two or three major gearbox failures! =
I can=E2=80=99t recall the details now, but there were so many driveshaft, =
rear wheel carriers and other vital parts failures, that several more were =
air-freighted out to Nigeria in the hope of getting the cars home. I do kno=
w all the cars were re-fitted in Lagos, Nigeria with locally made radiators=
 that didn=E2=80=99t break or crack as a result of vibration. Having spent =
a lot of time in Africa myself, I know what their roads can do and I have a=
 lot of respect for local tradespeople on street corners who can do truly a=
mazing things in repairing something that looks smashed beyond repair. Anyw=
ay, when they finally got to Coventry, all the men who had taken part in th=
e event, were publicly castigated by Harry Webster, the Director of Enginee=
ring for submitting trip reports that were critical of a number of Webster-=
inspired features on the Herald in particular. Ray summarised that event as=
 =E2=80=9Cthe journey through hell=E2=80=9D and he was very critical of Ali=
ck Dick (Standard-Triumph=E2=80=99s CEO) and Frank Higham (Sales Director) =
for abdicating the company=E2=80=99s duty of care to employees in sending t=
hat team of men on what they felt was a dangerous and ill thought-out exped=
ition in cars that were totally unsuited to that sort of travel in such con=
ditions.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Another of Ra=
y=E2=80=99s unique contributions was the creation of a Spitfire whose roadh=
olding was far better than the Sprite/Midget in standard spec. It was so go=
od that Webster insisted it should be put in the crusher and the concept fo=
rgotten. Basically, Ray modified a Spitfire taken off the line, substantial=
ly reinforced the rear part of the bodyshell and re-equipped the car with s=
emi-trailing arms and coil springs as per the TR4A but using parts from the=
 Triumph 1300 front wheel drive car. Ray did that conversion, on his own, i=
n the Engineering workshop in just three weeks =E2=80=93 and without any dr=
awings at all! It was all done on =E2=80=9Cif it looks right, it=E2=80=99ll=
 probably be right =E2=80=93 and it was. That car was so good it *<b>ought<=
/b>* to have gone into production but the costs that would have been incurr=
ed in completely re-jigging the chassis and doing major work in re-designin=
g and strengthening the body tub would have put another GBP50 (@ 1966 value=
s) =C2=A0on the manufacturing cost of the car. Such a cost would have trans=
lated to an extra GBP250 at retail =E2=80=93 and Webster claimed (perhaps c=
orrectly?) that this would price the Spitfire out of the market and make th=
e Spridget the favoured car for its price, so he threw the whole idea out. =
A terrible shame in its way. All those (few) who drove the car =E2=80=93 ap=
art from Webster, were unanimous it was the way the Spitfire should have be=
en designed from the start and leading that argument was the Company=E2=80=
=99s chief test driver!<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n>So, a little bit of =E2=80=98behind the scenes=E2=80=99 history for those=
 who are interested. Apologies for taking up space they may not interest mo=
st people.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Jonmac<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><div=
 style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm =
0cm;font-size:pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Connitt &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> 06 December 2022 14:04<br>=
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Rye Livi=
ngston &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:stagbytriumph@trium=
phstagclub.org" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">stagbytrium=
[email-masked]</a>; Randy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:triumph=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@=
autox.team.net</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Travel and tuning questi=
on<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">That=E2=80=99s interesting Jonmac,<u></u><u></u>=
</p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Did any of those shows ever discuss how the=
 drivers handled the altitude? Asking for a friend, LOL.<u></u><u></u></p><=
/div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dave Connit=
t<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<u></u><u=
></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Dec 6, 2022, at 4:12 AM, <a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">=EF=BB=BF<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Back in the =
day =E2=80=93 like fifty plus years ago, all the larger UK car makers under=
took extensive altitude testing on all their cars. Favourite locations were=
 Europe, Scandinavia, Canadian Rockies, the Andes and Iran before the Shah =
was deposed. Lots of Pike=E2=80=99s Peak equivalent places in some of those=
 locations and this sort of testing is something many enthusiasts don=E2=80=
=99t take on board.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Jonmac</span><u=
></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0p=
t 0cm 0cm 0cm;font-size:pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Rye Livings=
ton &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> 05 December 2022 19:22<b=
r><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer no=
referrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>; Dave Connitt &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Randy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Travel and tu=
ning question<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u>=
</u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Before the pandemic I drove my TR3 fr=
om sea level in California, to Flagstaff Arizona, just shy of 7000=E2=80=99=
, for Triumphest.=C2=A0 On the way home we drove over Tioga Pass going into=
 Yosemite at 9,945 feet.=C2=A0 I didn=E2=80=99t adjust anything and it ran =
well.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>=
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Rye<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt;=
image001.jpg&gt;<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br=
><br><u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:=
5.0pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Dec 4, 2022, at 2:37 AM, <a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Agreed. I =
don=E2=80=99t recall either of those Stags suffering fuel starvation or &#3=
9;altitude&#39; sickness. One on SU&#39;s, the other on Strombergs. Must ad=
mit I was glad when we did the descent as the altitude was doing me no good=
 at all. That said, a great drive in both directions, a fine day and an ama=
zing view at the summit.<br><br>jonmac<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br=
>From: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferr=
er noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br>Sen=
t: 02 December 2022 21:34<br>To: &#39;Dave Connitt&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">dconn=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;; &#39;Randy and Valerie DeRuiter&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc: &#39;Triumphs&#39; &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and=
 tuning question<br><br>I hear there are a lot of &quot;&#39;deer&quot; on =
top of Pikes Peak at various times!<br><br>Glenn aka StagByTriumph<br><br>-=
----Original Message-----<br>From: Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs-=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tri=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; On Behalf Of Dave Connitt<br>Sent: Fri=
day, December 2, 2022 10:45 AM<br>To: Randy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc: Triumphs &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and tu=
ning question<br><br>Thanks for the tip Randy! <br>Yea, the trip to Pikes P=
eak started from a conversation with some TriState Triumph people at lunch =
after one of our =E2=80=9Cspirited drives=E2=80=9D. The trip up Pikes Peak =
was a bucket list goal of one of the couples. I asked my wife if she wanted=
 to go too and after saying yes, she suggested that since we will be out we=
st why not see some other sites? We=E2=80=99re both retired so there=E2=80=
=99s no hurry getting back home. There=E2=80=99s about 8 of us going to Pik=
es Peak so far. I haven=E2=80=99t mentioned our extended trip to the group =
yet but some of them may want to go with us instead of driving straight bac=
k to Cinci.<br><br>Thanks again for the electric fuel pump idea!!<br>Tha ca=
r is already up on the QuckJack<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI Em=
oji&quot;,sans-serif">=F0=9F=98=81</span>.<br>Dave and Colleen Connitt<br>F=
OG 51<br><br>Sent from my iPhone<br><br><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On=
 Dec 2, 2022, at 11:56 AM, Randy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br>=EF=BB=BFDave<br><br>Sound=
s like a great trip - I didn=E2=80=99t make the last tour with my other FOG=
 buddies but when they went through the Rockies the #1 issue at altitude wa=
s the mechanical fuel pump cavitating due to ethanol gas we think.=C2=A0 A =
couple guys on the trip hooked up temporary electric pumps and had no issue=
 - no carb adjustments were made for any of them.<br><br>Randy<br>FOG37<br>=
<br>Sent from my iPhone<br><br><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style=
=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Dec 2, =
2022, at 10:15 AM, Dave Connitt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" re=
l=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br><br>=EF=BB=BFHi all,<br>This coming summer my wife and I are plannin=
g a fairly long trip in my TR4A =C2=A0leaving from Cincinnati, Ohio (altitu=
de approximately 500=E2=80=99). Our first destination is going to be Colora=
do Springs, Co. to drive up Pikes Peak (altitude approximately 14,115=E2=80=
=99). Then north to Mt. Rushmore (altitude approximately 5,700=E2=80=99), t=
hen north to drive through Yellowstone national park (altitude approximatel=
y 9,200=E2=80=99). That=E2=80=99s going to be quite a swing in altitude and=
 I am wondering if I will have to occasionally tune the SU HS-6 carbs? Has =
anyone on the list done a similar drive? If so, how did your Triumph run an=
d what did you have to adjust?<br>Thanks in advance!<br>Dave Connitt<br>=E2=
=80=9867 TR4A-IRS<br><a href=3D"http://DavesTR4A.com" rel=3D"noreferrer nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">DavesTR4A.com</a><br><br>Sent from my iPhone<br>=
** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> **<br><br>Donate: <a href=3D=
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nk">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.=
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mphs/[email-masked]</a><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></blockquo=
te><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a=
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iumphs/[email-masked]</a><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></blockquote>=
</div></div></div>** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> **<br>
<br>
errer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" rel=3D"noreferr=
er noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/t=
riumphs</a>=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer=
 noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><b=
r>
<br>
hs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br=
</blockquote></div>

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From: Creig Houghtaling <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 20:41:25 +0000

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From: Frank Fisher <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 23:51:25 +0000 (UTC)

--===============2640156975983624121==
	boundary="----=_Part_23257_1168785754.1670543485542"

------=_Part_23257_1168785754.1670543485542
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 oh John. please do not stop with your history. you can take up all my read=
ing all day, every day.
Franka scouse in california

    On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 10:34:00 AM PST, [email-masked]=
m <[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
=20
Hi, Dave,

 =C2=A0

Very few, if any of the Experimental Engineers made it into the public and =
enthusiast=E2=80=99s eye except for one or two =E2=80=93 and they were main=
ly known only in the UK. Sadly, all but one of them are now fixing Heralds =
in heaven. One of them was the late Ray Henderson from the Experimental Dep=
artment. A lovely, unassuming man who was a brilliant engineer of the old s=
chool and who could turn his hand to fixing the impossible miles from anywh=
ere, told me many stories of his experiences. Ray undertook quite a number =
of trips in development cars to far flung destinations and the one about wh=
ich he was the most critical was being one of the crew that drove two or th=
ree Heralds (pre-launch versions) from Cape Town in South Africa to London.=
 The book of that trip was called =E2=80=9CTurn Left at Tangier=E2=80=9D th=
ough I don=E2=80=99t think Ray provided much of the input to it being writt=
en. If he had, it=E2=80=99s likely he=E2=80=99d have either lost his job or=
 been seriously disciplined on his return. He was scathing in the extreme a=
bout the whole venture and highly critical of the Company for even suggesti=
ng the exercise in the first place. In Ray=E2=80=99s view =E2=80=93 which I=
 think was shared by all those who went with him on the trip, was that the =
cars were totally unsuited to the journey they made and it=E2=80=99s a trib=
ute to Ray and his colleagues that they actually managed to get the cars ba=
ck, so badly were they damaged by the appalling so-called roads and no road=
s at all in crossing the Sahara desert. Apart from the unsuitability of the=
 chosen route, none of those who took part were given any kind of training =
or pre-run preparation in terms of the types of terrain, culture, language,=
 don=E2=80=99t-do=E2=80=99s etc that they would encounter, the very real da=
ngers that faced them in going through certain countries where the white ma=
n definitely was not wanted, through training in basic medicine and first a=
id, treating colleagues for scorpion attacks or snake bite and damn all in =
terms of carrying appropriate medical kits on all the vehicles. As I recall=
, there were three Heralds, one Vanguard estate car and a Standard Atlas va=
n with about one and a half tons of parts, tools, fuel, water and camping k=
it =E2=80=93 and just one 948cc engine to drive it!!!!! Ray told me that ea=
ch Herald required at least three rear suspension rebuilds en-route, severa=
l clutch changes and two or three major gearbox failures! I can=E2=80=99t r=
ecall the details now, but there were so many driveshaft, rear wheel carrie=
rs and other vital parts failures, that several more were air-freighted out=
 to Nigeria in the hope of getting the cars home. I do know all the cars we=
re re-fitted in Lagos, Nigeria with locally made radiators that didn=E2=80=
=99t break or crack as a result of vibration. Having spent a lot of time in=
 Africa myself, I know what their roads can do and I have a lot of respect =
for local tradespeople on street corners who can do truly amazing things in=
 repairing something that looks smashed beyond repair. Anyway, when they fi=
nally got to Coventry, all the men who had taken part in the event, were pu=
blicly castigated by Harry Webster, the Director of Engineering for submitt=
ing trip reports that were critical of a number of Webster-inspired feature=
s on the Herald in particular. Ray summarised that event as =E2=80=9Cthe jo=
urney through hell=E2=80=9D and he was very critical of Alick Dick (Standar=
d-Triumph=E2=80=99s CEO) and Frank Higham (Sales Director) for abdicating t=
he company=E2=80=99s duty of care to employees in sending that team of men =
on what they felt was a dangerous and ill thought-out expedition in cars th=
at were totally unsuited to that sort of travel in such conditions.

Another of Ray=E2=80=99s unique contributions was the creation of a Spitfir=
e whose roadholding was far better than the Sprite/Midget in standard spec.=
 It was so good that Webster insisted it should be put in the crusher and t=
he concept forgotten. Basically, Ray modified a Spitfire taken off the line=
, substantially reinforced the rear part of the bodyshell and re-equipped t=
he car with semi-trailing arms and coil springs as per the TR4A but using p=
arts from the Triumph 1300 front wheel drive car. Ray did that conversion, =
on his own, in the Engineering workshop in just three weeks =E2=80=93 and w=
ithout any drawings at all! It was all done on =E2=80=9Cif it looks right, =
it=E2=80=99ll probably be right =E2=80=93 and it was. That car was so good =
it *ought* to have gone into production but the costs that would have been =
incurred in completely re-jigging the chassis and doing major work in re-de=
signing and strengthening the body tub would have put another GBP50 (@ 1966=
 values) =C2=A0on the manufacturing cost of the car. Such a cost would have=
 translated to an extra GBP250 at retail =E2=80=93 and Webster claimed (per=
haps correctly?) that this would price the Spitfire out of the market and m=
ake the Spridget the favoured car for its price, so he threw the whole idea=
 out. A terrible shame in its way. All those (few) who drove the car =E2=80=
=93 apart from Webster, were unanimous it was the way the Spitfire should h=
ave been designed from the start and leading that argument was the Company=
=E2=80=99s chief test driver!

So, a little bit of =E2=80=98behind the scenes=E2=80=99 history for those w=
ho are interested. Apologies for taking up space they may not interest most=
 people.

 =C2=A0

Jonmac

 =C2=A0

From: Dave Connitt <[email-masked]>=20
Sent: 06 December 2022 14:04
To: [email-masked]
Cc: Rye Livingston <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]; Randy=
 and Valerie DeRuiter <[email-masked]>; Triumphs <triumphs@autox=
.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question

 =C2=A0

Did any of those shows ever discuss how the drivers handled the altitude? A=
sking for a friend, LOL.

Dave Connitt

Sent from my iPhone

=EF=BB=BF

Back in the day =E2=80=93 like fifty plus years ago, all the larger UK car =
makers undertook extensive altitude testing on all their cars. Favourite lo=
cations were Europe, Scandinavia, Canadian Rockies, the Andes and Iran befo=
re the Shah was deposed. Lots of Pike=E2=80=99s Peak equivalent places in s=
ome of those locations and this sort of testing is something many enthusias=
ts don=E2=80=99t take on board.

=C2=A0

Jonmac

=C2=A0

From: Rye Livingston <[email-masked]>=20
Sent: 05 December 2022 19:22
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; Dave Connitt <[email-masked]>; Ra=
ndy and Valerie DeRuiter <[email-masked]>; Triumphs <triumphs@au=
tox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question

=C2=A0

Before the pandemic I drove my TR3 from sea level in California, to Flagsta=
ff Arizona, just shy of 7000=E2=80=99, for Triumphest. =C2=A0On the way hom=
e we drove over Tioga Pass going into Yosemite at 9,945 feet. =C2=A0I didn=
=E2=80=99t adjust anything and it ran well.

=C2=A0

Rye

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Agreed. I don=E2=80=99t recall either of those Stags suffering fuel starvat=
ion or 'altitude' sickness. One on SU's, the other on Strombergs. Must admi=
t I was glad when we did the descent as the altitude was doing me no good a=
t all. That said, a great drive in both directions, a fine day and an amazi=
ng view at the summit.

jonmac

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>=
=20
Sent: 02 December 2022 21:34
To: 'Dave Connitt' <[email-masked]>; 'Randy and Valerie DeRuiter' <derui=
[email-masked]>
Cc: 'Triumphs' <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question

Glenn aka StagByTriumph

-----Original Message-----
From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Dave Connitt
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2022 10:45 AM
To: Randy and Valerie DeRuiter <[email-masked]>
Cc: Triumphs <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and tuning question

Thanks for the tip Randy!=20
Yea, the trip to Pikes Peak started from a conversation with some TriState =
Triumph people at lunch after one of our =E2=80=9Cspirited drives=E2=80=9D.=
 The trip up Pikes Peak was a bucket list goal of one of the couples. I ask=
ed my wife if she wanted to go too and after saying yes, she suggested that=
 since we will be out west why not see some other sites? We=E2=80=99re both=
 retired so there=E2=80=99s no hurry getting back home. There=E2=80=99s abo=
ut 8 of us going to Pikes Peak so far. I haven=E2=80=99t mentioned our exte=
nded trip to the group yet but some of them may want to go with us instead =
of driving straight back to Cinci.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 2, 2022, at 11:56 AM, Randy and Valerie DeRuiter <deruiterville@hotm=
ail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFDave

Sounds like a great trip - I didn=E2=80=99t make the last tour with my othe=
r FOG buddies but when they went through the Rockies the #1 issue at altitu=
de was the mechanical fuel pump cavitating due to ethanol gas we think. =C2=
=A0A couple guys on the trip hooked up temporary electric pumps and had no =
issue - no carb adjustments were made for any of them.

Randy
FOG37

Sent from my iPhone

=EF=BB=BFHi all,
This coming summer my wife and I are planning a fairly long trip in my TR4A=
 =C2=A0leaving from Cincinnati, Ohio (altitude approximately 500=E2=80=99).=
 Our first destination is going to be Colorado Springs, Co. to drive up Pik=
es Peak (altitude approximately 14,115=E2=80=99). Then north to Mt. Rushmor=
e (altitude approximately 5,700=E2=80=99), then north to drive through Yell=
owstone national park (altitude approximately 9,200=E2=80=99). That=E2=80=
=99s going to be quite a swing in altitude and I am wondering if I will hav=
e to occasionally tune the SU HS-6 carbs? Has anyone on the list done a sim=
ilar drive? If so, how did your Triumph run and what did you have to adjust=
?
Thanks in advance!
Dave Connitt
=E2=80=9867 TR4A-IRS
DavesTR4A.com

Sent from my iPhone

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs =C2=A0http://www.team.net/a=
rchive

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs =C2=A0http://www.team.net/a=
rchive

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs =C2=A0http://www.team.net/a=
rchive

.com

=C2=A0

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archiv=
e

[email-masked]
 =20
------=_Part_23257_1168785754.1670543485542
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp4bfd5f5cyahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px=
;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">oh John. please do not stop =
with your history. you can take up all my reading all day, every day.</div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setd=
ir=3D"false">Frank</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">a scouse in =
california</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"fa=
lse"><br></div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp8d522e40yahoo_quoted_1444139286" class=3D"ydp8d=
522e40yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 10:34:00 AM PST, johnb=
[email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530"><div><div class=
=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530WordSection1"><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865=
530MsoNormal"><span>Hi, Dave,</span></p><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv315086553=
0MsoNormal"><span> &nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530Mso=
Normal"><span>Very few, if any of the Experimental Engineers made it into t=
he public and enthusiast=E2=80=99s eye except for one or two =E2=80=93 and =
they were mainly known only in the UK. Sadly, all but one of them are now f=
ixing Heralds in heaven. One of them was the late Ray Henderson from the Ex=
perimental Department. A lovely, unassuming man who was a brilliant enginee=
r of the old school and who could turn his hand to fixing the impossible mi=
les from anywhere, told me many stories of his experiences. Ray undertook q=
uite a number of trips in development cars to far flung destinations and th=
e one about which he was the most critical was being one of the crew that d=
rove two or three Heralds (pre-launch versions) from Cape Town in South Afr=
ica to London. The book of that trip was called =E2=80=9CTurn Left at Tangi=
er=E2=80=9D though I don=E2=80=99t think Ray provided much of the input to =
it being written. If he had, it=E2=80=99s likely he=E2=80=99d have either l=
ost his job or been seriously disciplined on his return. He was scathing in=
 the extreme about the whole venture and highly critical of the Company for=
 even suggesting the exercise in the first place. In Ray=E2=80=99s view =E2=
=80=93 which I think was shared by all those who went with him on the trip,=
 was that the cars were totally unsuited to the journey they made and it=E2=
=80=99s a tribute to Ray and his colleagues that they actually managed to g=
et the cars back, so badly were they damaged by the appalling so-called roa=
ds and no roads at all in crossing the Sahara desert. Apart from the unsuit=
ability of the chosen route, none of those who took part were given any kin=
d of training or pre-run preparation in terms of the types of terrain, cult=
ure, language, don=E2=80=99t-do=E2=80=99s etc that they would encounter, th=
e very real dangers that faced them in going through certain countries wher=
e the white man definitely was not wanted, through training in basic medici=
ne and first aid, treating colleagues for scorpion attacks or snake bite an=
d damn all in terms of carrying appropriate medical kits on all the vehicle=
s. As I recall, there were three Heralds, one Vanguard estate car and a Sta=
ndard Atlas van with about one and a half tons of parts, tools, fuel, water=
 and camping kit =E2=80=93 and just one 948cc engine to drive it!!!!! Ray t=
old me that each Herald required at least three rear suspension rebuilds en=
-route, several clutch changes and two or three major gearbox failures! I c=
an=E2=80=99t recall the details now, but there were so many driveshaft, rea=
r wheel carriers and other vital parts failures, that several more were air=
-freighted out to Nigeria in the hope of getting the cars home. I do know a=
ll the cars were re-fitted in Lagos, Nigeria with locally made radiators th=
at didn=E2=80=99t break or crack as a result of vibration. Having spent a l=
ot of time in Africa myself, I know what their roads can do and I have a lo=
t of respect for local tradespeople on street corners who can do truly amaz=
ing things in repairing something that looks smashed beyond repair. Anyway,=
 when they finally got to Coventry, all the men who had taken part in the e=
vent, were publicly castigated by Harry Webster, the Director of Engineerin=
g for submitting trip reports that were critical of a number of Webster-ins=
pired features on the Herald in particular. Ray summarised that event as =
=E2=80=9Cthe journey through hell=E2=80=9D and he was very critical of Alic=
k Dick (Standard-Triumph=E2=80=99s CEO) and Frank Higham (Sales Director) f=
or abdicating the company=E2=80=99s duty of care to employees in sending th=
at team of men on what they felt was a dangerous and ill thought-out expedi=
tion in cars that were totally unsuited to that sort of travel in such cond=
itions.</span></p><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal"><span>Anot=
her of Ray=E2=80=99s unique contributions was the creation of a Spitfire wh=
ose roadholding was far better than the Sprite/Midget in standard spec. It =
was so good that Webster insisted it should be put in the crusher and the c=
oncept forgotten. Basically, Ray modified a Spitfire taken off the line, su=
bstantially reinforced the rear part of the bodyshell and re-equipped the c=
ar with semi-trailing arms and coil springs as per the TR4A but using parts=
 from the Triumph 1300 front wheel drive car. Ray did that conversion, on h=
is own, in the Engineering workshop in just three weeks =E2=80=93 and witho=
ut any drawings at all! It was all done on =E2=80=9Cif it looks right, it=
=E2=80=99ll probably be right =E2=80=93 and it was. That car was so good it=
 *<b>ought</b>* to have gone into production but the costs that would have =
been incurred in completely re-jigging the chassis and doing major work in =
re-designing and strengthening the body tub would have put another GBP50 (@=
 1966 values) &nbsp;on the manufacturing cost of the car. Such a cost would=
 have translated to an extra GBP250 at retail =E2=80=93 and Webster claimed=
 (perhaps correctly?) that this would price the Spitfire out of the market =
and make the Spridget the favoured car for its price, so he threw the whole=
 idea out. A terrible shame in its way. All those (few) who drove the car =
=E2=80=93 apart from Webster, were unanimous it was the way the Spitfire sh=
ould have been designed from the start and leading that argument was the Co=
mpany=E2=80=99s chief test driver!</span></p><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150=
865530MsoNormal"><span>So, a little bit of =E2=80=98behind the scenes=E2=80=
=99 history for those who are interested. Apologies for taking up space the=
y may not interest most people.</span></p><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865=
530MsoNormal"><span> &nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530M=
soNormal"><span>Jonmac</span></p><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNor=
mal"><span> &nbsp;</span></p><div id=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530yqt72692" c=
lass=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530yqt0596720159"><div><div style=3D"border:no=
ne;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;"><p class=3D"y=
dp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Connitt &lt;dconnitt@fu=
se.net&gt; <br clear=3D"none"><b>Sent:</b> 06 December 2022 14:04<br clear=
=3D"none"><b>To:</b> [email-masked]<br clear=3D"none"><b>Cc:</b> Ry=
e Livingston &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; [email-masked]; Randy=
 and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Triumphs &lt;trium=
[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Travel an=
d tuning question</p></div></div><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNor=
mal"> &nbsp;</p><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal">That=E2=80=
=99s interesting Jonmac,</p><div><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNor=
mal">Did any of those shows ever discuss how the drivers handled the altitu=
de? Asking for a friend, LOL.</p></div></div><div><div id=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv=
3150865530yqt39650" class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530yqt0596720159"><p styl=
e=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;" class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal">Dav=
e Connitt</p><div><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal">Sent from =
my iPhone</p></div><div><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal"><br =
clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt=
;margin-bottom:5.0pt;"><p style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;" class=3D"ydp8d522=
e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal">On Dec 6, 2022, at 4:12 AM, <a shape=3D"rect" hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">joh=
[email-masked]</a> wrote:</p></blockquote></div></div><blockquote styl=
e=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;"><div><div id=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3=
150865530yqt51512" class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530yqt0596720159"><p class=
=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal">=EF=BB=BF</p><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40=
yiv3150865530MsoNormal"><span>Back in the day =E2=80=93 like fifty plus yea=
rs ago, all the larger UK car makers undertook extensive altitude testing o=
n all their cars. Favourite locations were Europe, Scandinavia, Canadian Ro=
ckies, the Andes and Iran before the Shah was deposed. Lots of Pike=E2=80=
=99s Peak equivalent places in some of those locations and this sort of tes=
ting is something many enthusiasts don=E2=80=99t take on board.</span></p><=
p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal"><span>&nbsp;</span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal"><span>Jonmac</span></p><p class=3D=
"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal"><span>&nbsp;</span></p><div><div style=
=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;">=
<p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Rye Livingston =
&lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br clear=3D"none"><b>Sent:</b> 05 Decembe=
r 2022 19:22<br clear=3D"none"><b>To:</b> <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">johnbmacartney@g=
mx.com</a><br clear=3D"none"><b>Cc:</b> <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:st=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">stagbyt=
[email-masked]</a>; Dave Connitt &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">dconnitt@fuse.=
net</a>&gt;; Randy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">deruitervil=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Triumphs &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:trium=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked].=
net</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Travel and tuning qu=
estion</p></div></div><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal">&nbsp;=
</p><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal">Before the pandemic I dr=
ove my TR3 from sea level in California, to Flagstaff Arizona, just shy of =
7000=E2=80=99, for Triumphest. &nbsp;On the way home we drove over Tioga Pa=
ss going into Yosemite at 9,945 feet. &nbsp;I didn=E2=80=99t adjust anythin=
g and it ran well.</p><div><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal">&=
nbsp;</p></div></div><div><div id=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530yqt57880" clas=
s=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530yqt0596720159"><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv31508=
65530MsoNormal">Rye</p><div><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal">=
&nbsp;</p></div></div><div><div id=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530yqt83753" cla=
ss=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530yqt0596720159"><div><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yi=
v3150865530MsoNormal">&lt;image001.jpg&gt;</p></div><div><p class=3D"ydp8d5=
22e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clea=
r=3D"none"></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">=
<div><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal">On Dec 4, 2022, at 2:37=
 AM, <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofoll=
ow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> wrote:</p></div><p class=
=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><div><div><p class=3D"ydp8=
d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal">Agreed. I don=E2=80=99t recall either of tho=
se Stags suffering fuel starvation or 'altitude' sickness. One on SU's, the=
 other on Strombergs. Must admit I was glad when we did the descent as the =
altitude was doing me no good at all. That said, a great drive in both dire=
ctions, a fine day and an amazing view at the summit.<br clear=3D"none"><br=
 clear=3D"none">jonmac<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">-----Original M=
essage-----<br clear=3D"none">From: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:stagby=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">stagbytrium=
[email-masked]</a> &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:stagbytrium=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">stagbytriumph@tr=
iumphstagclub.org</a>&gt; <br clear=3D"none">Sent: 02 December 2022 21:34<b=
r clear=3D"none">To: 'Dave Connitt' &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:dc=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t;; 'Randy and Valerie DeRuiter' &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:derui=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">deruiterville@hotm=
ail.com</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">Cc: 'Triumphs' &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triu=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">Subject: Re: [TR] Travel and =
tuning question<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">I hear there are a lot=
 of "'deer" on top of Pikes Peak at various times!<br clear=3D"none"><br cl=
ear=3D"none">Glenn aka StagByTriumph<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">-=
----Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">From: Triumphs &lt;<a shape=3D"=
rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" targ=
et=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; On Behalf Of Dave Con=
nitt<br clear=3D"none">Sent: Friday, December 2, 2022 10:45 AM<br clear=3D"=
none">To: Randy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:d=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">deruiterville@=
hotmail.com</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">Cc: Triumphs &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">tr=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">Subject: Re: [TR] Travel an=
d tuning question<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Thanks for the tip R=
andy! <br clear=3D"none">Yea, the trip to Pikes Peak started from a convers=
ation with some TriState Triumph people at lunch after one of our =E2=80=9C=
spirited drives=E2=80=9D. The trip up Pikes Peak was a bucket list goal of =
one of the couples. I asked my wife if she wanted to go too and after sayin=
g yes, she suggested that since we will be out west why not see some other =
sites? We=E2=80=99re both retired so there=E2=80=99s no hurry getting back =
home. There=E2=80=99s about 8 of us going to Pikes Peak so far. I haven=E2=
=80=99t mentioned our extended trip to the group yet but some of them may w=
ant to go with us instead of driving straight back to Cinci.<br clear=3D"no=
ne"><br clear=3D"none">Thanks again for the electric fuel pump idea!!<br cl=
ear=3D"none">Tha car is already up on the QuckJack<span style=3D"font-famil=
y:UI sans-serif;">=F0=9F=98=81</span>.<br clear=3D"none">Dave and Colleen C=
onnitt<br clear=3D"none">FOG 51<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Sent f=
rom my iPhone<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br c=
lear=3D"none"></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt=
;"><p class=3D"ydp8d522e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal">On Dec 2, 2022, at 11:56 =
AM, Randy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:deruite=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">deruiterville@hotmai=
l.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">=EF=BB=BFDave<br =
clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Sounds like a great trip - I didn=E2=80=
=99t make the last tour with my other FOG buddies but when they went throug=
h the Rockies the #1 issue at altitude was the mechanical fuel pump cavitat=
ing due to ethanol gas we think. &nbsp;A couple guys on the trip hooked up =
temporary electric pumps and had no issue - no carb adjustments were made f=
or any of them.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Randy<br clear=3D"none=
">FOG37<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Sent from my iPhone<br clear=
=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></p><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;"><p class=3D"ydp8d52=
2e40yiv3150865530MsoNormal">On Dec 2, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Dave Connitt &lt;<=
a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D=
"none">=EF=BB=BFHi all,<br clear=3D"none">This coming summer my wife and I =
are planning a fairly long trip in my TR4A &nbsp;leaving from Cincinnati, O=
hio (altitude approximately 500=E2=80=99). Our first destination is going t=
o be Colorado Springs, Co. to drive up Pikes Peak (altitude approximately 1=
4,115=E2=80=99). Then north to Mt. Rushmore (altitude approximately 5,700=
=E2=80=99), then north to drive through Yellowstone national park (altitude=
 approximately 9,200=E2=80=99). That=E2=80=99s going to be quite a swing in=
 altitude and I am wondering if I will have to occasionally tune the SU HS-=
6 carbs? Has anyone on the list done a similar drive? If so, how did your T=
riumph run and what did you have to adjust?<br clear=3D"none">Thanks in adv=
ance!<br clear=3D"none">Dave Connitt<br clear=3D"none">=E2=80=9867 TR4A-IRS=
<br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://DavesTR4A.com" rel=3D"n=
ofollow" target=3D"_blank">DavesTR4A.com</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D=
"none">Sent from my iPhone<br clear=3D"none">** <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@=
autox.team.net</a> **<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a shape=
=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"nofollow" target=
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