Subject: [TR] TR4 Starter question

From: "Jim Henningsen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 19:55:03 -0500

I know my starter needs some attention, but curious what the specific issue
is before deciding to rebuild it or put in a new gear reduction unit.  1962
TR4 CT 5212LO.  When I turn the key it cranks for a bit and then makes a hum
and stops cranking.  Turn key off and try again and same.  I can get it to
start each time but something is wrong.  Any thoughts on what is going on?
Anyone have luck with local starter shops rebuilding.  Can't imagine there
are too many parts available to them for these units.  
Thanks,
Jim Henningsen
Ocala FL 
61 TR3A
62 TR4
75 TR6
82 CJ8

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 15:44:48 +0000 (UTC)

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...not saying it's true in all cases...but most rebuild resources do not re=
build on the spot, ....depending on stock.They hand over one they rebuilt t=
he last time around...and your 'core' gets rebuilt to be sold later to the =
next guy.
A very common practice.

ptegler

-----Original Message-----
From: Randall <[email-masked]>
To: 'Jim Henningsen' <[email-masked]>; 'triumphs' <[email-masked]=
et>
Sent: Tue, Jan 22, 2019 12:14 am
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Starter question

I haven't asked recently, but a few years back my independent FLAPS (Long
Beach, CA) assured me they could get any Lucas starter rebuilt.=C2=A0 They =
have
to have a complete core, and it takes a few days to a week.=C2=A0 IIRC the =
price
was very favorable, compared to a new one.

Apparently, the fellow that does them will not deal directly with the
public.=C2=A0 But when I asked for a special nut (for my Japanese alternato=
r),
through the FLAPS of course, he gave it to me for nothing.

Also, someone posted just today on another forum that they got their old
starter repaired in Dallas TX.

Sorry, I've no idea about the hum.=C2=A0 But it's been my experience that i=
t's
usually pretty obvious when you get it apart.

-- Randall=C2=A0=20

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archiv=
e

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<div style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:b=
lack;"><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;=
color:black;"><br>...not saying it's true in all cases...but most rebuild r=
esources do not rebuild on the spot, ....depending on stock.</div><div styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:black;">Th=
ey hand over one they rebuilt the last time around...and your 'core' gets r=
ebuilt to be sold later to the next guy.<br>A very common practice.<br><br>=
ptegler<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Randall &lt;tr3driver@ca=
.rr.com&gt;<br>To: 'Jim Henningsen' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; 'triumphs' &=
lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>Sent: Tue, Jan 22, 2019 12:14 am<br>Subje=
ct: Re: [TR] TR4 Starter question<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I haven't a=
sked recently, but a few years back my independent FLAPS (Long<br clear=3D"=
none">Beach, CA) assured me they could get any Lucas starter rebuilt.&nbsp;=
 They have<br clear=3D"none">to have a complete core, and it takes a few da=
ys to a week.&nbsp; IIRC the price<br clear=3D"none">was very favorable, co=
mpared to a new one.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Apparently, the f=
ellow that does them will not deal directly with the<br clear=3D"none">publ=
ic.&nbsp; But when I asked for a special nut (for my Japanese alternator),<=
br clear=3D"none">through the FLAPS of course, he gave it to me for nothing=
.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Also, someone posted just today on a=
nother forum that they got their old<br clear=3D"none">starter repaired in =
Dallas TX.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Sorry, I've no idea about t=
he hum.&nbsp; But it's been my experience that it's<br clear=3D"none">usual=
ly pretty obvious when you get it apart.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"non=
e">-- Randall&nbsp; <div class=3D"yqt8122623638" id=3D"yqtfd41780"><br clea=
r=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">** <a shape=3D"rect" ymail=
to=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **<br clear=3D"n=
one"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"=
noopener noreferrer" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.te=
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From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 17:52:20 +0000 (UTC)

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 Ah, yes, the bendix.=C2=A0 I had a similar, but different problem on my MG=
 where the starter gear would not engage the flywheel.=C2=A0 That turned ou=
t to be a dry bendix and the starter would spin up but the starter gear wou=
ld hang back and not engage.=C2=A0 A little lub on the bendix fixed that.=
=20

But that is a different symptom.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Randall <[email-masked]>
To: 'DAVID MASSEY' <[email-masked]>; trguy75 <[email-masked]>; Trium=
phs <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tue, Jan 22, 2019 9:31 am
Subject: RE: [TR] TR4 Starter question

Except that the rubber coupling was eliminated during the TR3A; a TR4
shouldn't have one.

But you bring up a very good point.=C2=A0 The TR4 still uses a Bendix, whic=
h
automatically disengages the starter when the engine fires.=C2=A0 If the en=
gine
fires once but doesn't start, the starter is disengaged and wont engage
again until you let off the key (or button on a TR3) and let it stop
spinning.

Perhaps what Jim is hearing is the hum of the starter motor spinning
uselessly after the Bendix has kicked out.

In that case, he needs a tune-up rather than a starter rebuild.=C2=A0 It's =
just
the nature of the beast.=C2=A0 Eliminating that "feature" was one of the be=
st
benefits from going to a gear drive starter IMO.=C2=A0 (The gear drive star=
ters
use a solenoid and an overrunning clutch rather than a Bendix, so if the
engine fires but doesn't start, they just go back to cranking.)

-- Randall

> My guess is the hum is the rubber coupling in the starter=20
> pawl is slipping.=C2=A0 Time for rebuild.
>=20

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<font color=3D'black' size=3D'3' face=3D'Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'>
<div> <font size=3D"3">Ah, yes, the bendix.&nbsp; I had a similar, but diff=
erent problem on my MG where the starter gear would not engage the flywheel=
.&nbsp; That turned out to be a dry bendix and the starter would spin up bu=
t the starter gear would hang back and not engage.&nbsp; A little lub on th=
e bendix fixed that. <br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">But that is a different symptom.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"clear:both"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br>
<br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Randall &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: 'DAVID MASSEY' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; trguy75 &lt;[email-masked]=
m&gt;; Triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Tue, Jan 22, 2019 9:31 am<br>
Subject: RE: [TR] TR4 Starter question<br>
<br>

<div dir=3D"ltr">Except that the rubber coupling was eliminated during the =
TR3A; a TR4<br clear=3D"none">shouldn't have one.<br clear=3D"none"><br cle=
ar=3D"none">But you bring up a very good point.&nbsp; The TR4 still uses a =
Bendix, which<br clear=3D"none">automatically disengages the starter when t=
he engine fires.&nbsp; If the engine<br clear=3D"none">fires once but doesn=
't start, the starter is disengaged and wont engage<br clear=3D"none">again=
 until you let off the key (or button on a TR3) and let it stop<br clear=3D=
"none">spinning.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Perhaps what Jim is h=
earing is the hum of the starter motor spinning<br clear=3D"none">uselessly=
 after the Bendix has kicked out.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">In t=
hat case, he needs a tune-up rather than a starter rebuild.&nbsp; It's just=
<br clear=3D"none">the nature of the beast.&nbsp; Eliminating that "feature=
" was one of the best<br clear=3D"none">benefits from going to a gear drive=
 starter IMO.&nbsp; (The gear drive starters<br clear=3D"none">use a soleno=
id and an overrunning clutch rather than a Bendix, so if the<br clear=3D"no=
ne">engine fires but doesn't start, they just go back to cranking.)<br clea=
r=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">-- Randall
<div class=3D"yqt1196089977" id=3D"yqtfd79050"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; My guess is the hum is the rubber coupling in the starter <b=
r clear=3D"none">&gt; pawl is slipping.&nbsp; Time for rebuild.<br clear=3D=
"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
</div>
</font>
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