Subject: [TR] Brake fluid for Triumph

From: Pete Arakelian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 22:53:48 +0000

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Yes, the "new" is he same as the "old" Castrol brake fluid.  They just re-d=
esigned the packaging.  Same as it has always been inside. I checked with C=
astrol when they made the change a few years ago.

Peter Arakelian - '71 TR6

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:blue">Yes, the &#8220;new&#8221; is he same as the &#8220;old&#=
8221; Castrol brake fluid.&nbsp; They just re-designed the packaging.&nbsp;=
 Same as it has always been inside. I checked with Castrol when they made t=
he change
 a few years ago.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Candara&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:blue">Peter Arakelian &#8211; &#8217;71 TR6<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
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** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

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From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 17:32:29 +0000 (UTC)

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 I agree but would also add that in regards to the braking system, this is =
no place to cut corners.=C2=A0 Waiting for a flatbed is the best case scena=
rio.=C2=A0 Also, inspect your hard lines while you are at it.=C2=A0 I had o=
ne fail on the TR3 just sitting in the garage.=C2=A0 It now sports stainles=
s steel lines thought-out.=C2=A0 As does the TR6.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
To: Triumphs ([email-masked]) <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thu, Nov 29, 2018 8:27 am
Subject: Re: [TR] Brake fluid for Triumph

On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 12:47 AM Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:

So I'd have to say that "best practice" is probably to replace the seals at
the same time.

=C2=A0I recognize a case of shipwright's disease when I see it, but since I=
 have more than one car and am not greatly inconvenienced when one is parti=
ally disassembled on stands in the garage; yet I am greatly inconvenienced =
when the one I am driving is lying inert in the tall grass on the side of t=
he road, I tend to go in and completely repair a system when a part of it n=
eeds attention.=C2=A0 If I'm going to replace the wheel cylinders, I'll rep=
lace/upgrade the hoses, and consider the calipers and master as well.=C2=A0=
 If I'm changing one radiator hose, I'll go ahead and replace all the radia=
tor and heater hoses, and do a complete flush with the radiator out.=C2=A0 =
Et cetera.=C2=A0 Saves a lot of sitting and waiting for the flatbed.

Jeff ScarbroughCorrosion Acres, Ga.=C2=A0** [email-masked] **

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<font color='black' size='3' face='Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'>
<div> <font size="3">I agree but would also add that in regards to the braking system, this is no place to cut corners.&nbsp; Waiting for a flatbed is the best case scenario.&nbsp; Also, inspect your hard lines while you are at it.&nbsp; I had one fail on the TR3 just sitting in the garage.&nbsp; It now sports stainless steel lines thought-out.&nbsp; As does the TR6.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style="clear:both"><font size="4">Dave </font><br>
<br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Jeff Scarbrough &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: Triumphs ([email-masked]) &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Thu, Nov 29, 2018 8:27 am<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] Brake fluid for Triumph<br>
<br>

<div id="yiv6720752660">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">
<div class="yiv6720752660gmail_quote">
<div class="yiv6720752660yqt9534501247" id="yiv6720752660yqtfd09668">
<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 12:47 AM Randall &lt;<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" removedlink__d14c3ed8-c71a-468c-a098-04ae2aa200d3__href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear="none"></div>
</div>
<blockquote class="yiv6720752660gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="yiv6720752660yqt9534501247" id="yiv6720752660yqtfd93292"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">
So I'd have to say that "best practice" is probably to replace the seals at<br clear="none">
the same time.</div>
<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" removedlink__d14c3ed8-c71a-468c-a098-04ae2aa200d3__href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]"></a></blockquote>
<div><br clear="none"></div>

<div>&nbsp;I recognize a case of shipwright's disease when I see it, but since I have more than one car and am not greatly inconvenienced when one is partially disassembled on stands in the garage; yet I am greatly inconvenienced when the one I am driving is lying inert in the tall grass on the side of the road, I tend to go in and completely repair a system when a part of it needs attention.&nbsp; If I'm going to replace the wheel cylinders, I'll replace/upgrade the hoses, and consider the calipers and master as well.&nbsp; If I'm changing one radiator hose, I'll go ahead and replace all the radiator and heater hoses, and do a complete flush with the radiator out.&nbsp; Et cetera.&nbsp; Saves a lot of sitting and waiting for the flatbed.</div>

<div><br clear="none"></div>

<div><br clear="none"></div>

<div>Jeff Scarbrough</div>

<div>Corrosion Acres, Ga.&nbsp;</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

<div class="yqt9534501247" id="yqtfd71304">** <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" rel="noopener noreferrer" removedlink__d14c3ed8-c71a-468c-a098-04ae2aa200d3__href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
</div>
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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 18:37:20 +0000 (UTC)

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..the only negative I've ever encountered with Dot 5 in our old cars is it =
does not lubricate the rubber as well as older fluids.
Synth and natural rubber also react differently ...as with everything with =
LBC's... =C2=A0 ymmv

ptegler

-----Original Message-----
From: TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]>
To: Randall <[email-masked]>; Sujit Roy <[email-masked]>
Cc: Triumphs <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thu, Nov 29, 2018 11:07 am
Subject: Re: [TR] Brake fluid for Triumph

When restoring my 3A in 2002, while the body was off the frame I replaced a=
ll the brake lines and hydraulic cylinders.=C2=A0 I learned about Dot 5 sil=
icone based fluid from the List then and went with it. After 15 years of dr=
iving, the same brake system remains rock solid plus I never blistered pain=
t with the occasional spill.=C2=A0 Doesn't silicone wear easier on rubber s=
eals?

Terry Smith, '59 TR3A=C2=A0 TS 58667
New Hampshire, where early snows have sent both bears and Triumphs off to t=
he Land of Nod=20

> On November 28, 2018 at 7:58 PM Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > Can I use DOT 5 in the Stag? Do I need to flush out the=20
> > current DOT 3/ 4?
>=20
> Both of my Stags have DOT 5 in them.=C2=A0 LE1473 was converted just by b=
leeding
> through at each corner until clean purple fluid appeared.=C2=A0 The other=
 one
> (dubbed Frankenstag because it appears to be parts from at least 3 differ=
ent
> cars) had a failed MC and stuck rear wheel cylinders when I got it, so th=
ose
> were repaired at the same time.
>=20
> However, LE1473 already had what seemed to be a minor master cylinder
> problem before the conversion (pedal would sometimes drop towards floor
> while sitting at a stop light), and it suddenly got a whole lot worse not
> long after the conversion (no hydraulic brakes at all).=C2=A0 (I also lea=
rned
> that the back brakes on a Stag are more prone to fade than a TR3.)
> Post-mortem showed both MC piston seals torn, and approximately the
> consistency of Gummi Bears.
>=20
> So I'd have to say that "best practice" is probably to replace the seals =
at
> Randall
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/arch=
ive
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/terryr=
[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archiv=
e

verizon.net

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<div style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:b=
lack;"><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;=
color:black;">..the only negative I've ever encountered with Dot 5 in our o=
ld cars is it does not lubricate the rubber as well as older fluids.<br>Syn=
th and natural rubber also react differently ...as with everything with LBC=
's... &nbsp; ymmv<br><br>ptegler<br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>F=
rom: TERRY SMITH &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>To: Randall &lt;TR3driver@c=
a.rr.com&gt;; Sujit Roy &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>Cc: Triumphs &lt;t=
[email-masked]&gt;<br>Sent: Thu, Nov 29, 2018 11:07 am<br>Subject: =
Re: [TR] Brake fluid for Triumph<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">When restori=
ng my 3A in 2002, while the body was off the frame I replaced all the brake=
 lines and hydraulic cylinders.&nbsp; I learned about Dot 5 silicone based =
fluid from the List then and went with it. After 15 years of driving, the s=
ame brake system remains rock solid plus I never blistered paint with the o=
ccasional spill.&nbsp; Doesn't silicone wear easier on rubber seals?<br cle=
ar=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Terry Smith, '59 TR3A&nbsp; TS 58667<br clea=
r=3D"none">New Hampshire, where early snows have sent both bears and Triump=
hs off to the Land of Nod <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; On November 28, 2018 at 7:58 PM Randall &lt;<a shape=3D"rect=
" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D=
"none">&gt; &gt; Can I use DOT 5 in the Stag? Do I need to flush out the <b=
r clear=3D"none">&gt; &gt; current DOT 3/ 4?<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br cle=
ar=3D"none">&gt; Both of my Stags have DOT 5 in them.&nbsp; LE1473 was conv=
erted just by bleeding<br clear=3D"none">&gt; through at each corner until =
clean purple fluid appeared.&nbsp; The other one<br clear=3D"none">&gt; (du=
bbed Frankenstag because it appears to be parts from at least 3 different<b=
r clear=3D"none">&gt; cars) had a failed MC and stuck rear wheel cylinders =
when I got it, so those<br clear=3D"none">&gt; were repaired at the same ti=
me.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; However, LE1473 already =
had what seemed to be a minor master cylinder<br clear=3D"none">&gt; proble=
m before the conversion (pedal would sometimes drop towards floor<br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; while sitting at a stop light), and it suddenly got a whole =
lot worse not<br clear=3D"none">&gt; long after the conversion (no hydrauli=
c brakes at all).&nbsp; (I also learned<br clear=3D"none">&gt; that the bac=
k brakes on a Stag are more prone to fade than a TR3.)<br clear=3D"none">&g=
t; Post-mortem showed both MC piston seals torn, and approximately the<br c=
lear=3D"none">&gt; consistency of Gummi Bears.<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br c=
lear=3D"none">&gt; So I'd have to say that "best practice" is probably to r=
eplace the seals at<br clear=3D"none">&gt; the same time.<br clear=3D"none"=
>&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; Randall<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"n=
one">&gt; ** <a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" r=
el=3D"noopener noreferrer" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">triumphs=
@autox.team.net</a> **<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; Donat=
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et/archive</a><br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; Unsubscribe/M=
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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 23:00:54 -0500

I used Castrol LMA for years and seemed like every year or so, sometimes more, sometimes less, some master or slave cylinder would fail.  I didn't really keep track of the timeframe, but seemed like a very regular basis, often a rear wheel cylinder.

Sometime ago I switched to Dot 5, actually bought a car that had it.  After sometime (nearly 20 years of ownership) it dawned on me that I hardly ever had any problems with hydraulics anymore.  I was a firm believer in the benefits of Dot 5.

Chapter 3-Last year my relatively new (7 years from the restoration, which is some time, but I was getting used to having so few problems it still surprised me) brake master cylinder quit, followed by a leaky clutch master.  Inspection of the brake master shows corrossion at the bottom of the bore, as if water had settled there.  

So Dot 5 seems to work well with hydraulics, but even though it does not absorb water, if water gets into the system, which apparently it can, it can do as much or more damage than it can in coventional fluid.

My fault for not flushing the fluid more often, but a little unsure if a flush would get lingering fluid out of the bottom of the bore (vs. a conventional flush which will displace fluid with x %age of water with new fluid with < x %age of water, thereby lowering water in the system and making your fluid good again).

YMMV, everybody seems to have different stories and experience with brake fluid, but that has been mine.

Greg Lemon
TR250

---- [email-masked] wrote: 
> ..the only negative I've ever encountered with Dot 5 in our old cars is it does not lubricate the rubber as well as older fluids.
> Synth and natural rubber also react differently ...as with everything with LBC's...   ymmv
> 
> ptegler
> 
> 
> When restoring my 3A in 2002, while the body was off the frame I replaced all the brake lines and hydraulic cylinders.  I learned about Dot 5 silicone based fluid from the List then and went with it. After 15 years of driving, the same brake system remains rock solid plus I never blistered paint with the occasional spill.  Doesn't silicone wear easier on rubber seals?
> 
> Terry Smith, '59 TR3A  TS 58667
> New Hampshire, where early snows have sent both bears and Triumphs off to the Land of Nod 
> 
> 
> > > Can I use DOT 5 in the Stag? Do I need to flush out the 
> > > current DOT 3/ 4?
> > 
> > Both of my Stags have DOT 5 in them.  LE1473 was converted just by bleeding
> > through at each corner until clean purple fluid appeared.  The other one
> > (dubbed Frankenstag because it appears to be parts from at least 3 different
> > cars) had a failed MC and stuck rear wheel cylinders when I got it, so those
> > long after the conversion (no hydraulic brakes at all).  (I also learned
> > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 13:21:56 +0000 (UTC)

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 Moss and TRF sell a handy sticker indicating that the car is converted to =
DOT5.=C2=A0 Others have them, too, I suppose.=C2=A0 I recommend one of thes=
e just to keep everyone in the loop.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Sujit Roy <[email-masked]>
To: TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]>
Cc: Triumphs <[email-masked]>
Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 12:03 am
Subject: Re: [TR] Brake fluid for Triumph

Thanks. I'll stick with the new black bottle for my current stag. But for S=
tag no. 2 which needs brakes seals all round I'll go for DOT 5
On Thu, Nov 29, 2018, 2:48 PM TERRY SMITH <[email-masked] wrote:

 Amen to that, Jeff.

On November 29, 2018 at 8:10 AM Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]> wrote=
:=20
=20

=20
On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 12:47 AM Randall < [email-masked]> wrote:=20

=20
 So I'd have to say that "best practice" is probably to replace the seals a=
t=20
 the same time.

Jeff ScarbroughCorrosion Acres, Ga.=C2=A0

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<font color='black' size='3' face='Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'>
<div> <font size="3">Moss and TRF sell a handy sticker indicating that the car is converted to DOT5.&nbsp; Others have them, too, I suppose.&nbsp; I recommend one of these just to keep everyone in the loop.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Sujit Roy &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: TERRY SMITH &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: Triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 12:03 am<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] Brake fluid for Triumph<br>
<br>

<div id="yiv4018041777">
<div>
<div>Thanks. I'll stick with the new black bottle for my current stag. But for Stag no. 2 which needs brakes seals all round I'll go for DOT 5</div>
<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Nov 29, 2018, 2:48 PM TERRY SMITH &lt;<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" removedlink__6bb8f13e-6319-4993-a14b-1dfd9be77ede__href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br clear="none"></div>
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<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);">Amen to that, Jeff.<br clear="none"></div>
<blockquote type="cite">On November 29, 2018 at 8:10 AM Jeff Scarbrough &lt;<a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" removedlink__6bb8f13e-6319-4993-a14b-1dfd9be77ede__href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: <br clear="none"> <br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 12:47 AM Randall &lt; <a rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" removedlink__6bb8f13e-6319-4993-a14b-1dfd9be77ede__href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: <br clear="none"></div>
<blockquote><br clear="none"> <br clear="none"> So I'd have to say that "best practice" is probably to replace the seals at <br clear="none"> the same time.</blockquote>
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<div>Corrosion Acres, Ga.&nbsp;</div>
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