Subject: Re: [TR] Brake fluid for Triumph

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 23:53:07 -0800

All brake fluid is "synthetic", as it's not made from petroleum.  The term
is essentially just a marketing ploy; it has no real meaning in this
context.

And yes, you should always use a freshly opened bottle, then discard the
remainder.  Even their "low moisture activity" fluid still absorbs water
right from the air, meaning it starts getting old the minute you crack the
top.

Sorry, no idea if the new Castrol is the same as the old Castrol.  I'm a big
believer in DOT 5 (which, among other advantages, doesn't suck water out of
the air and hence keeps forever in an opened bottle).

-- Randall 
56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild
71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild 

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

---

From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 08:27:15 -0600

I agree with Randall, I switched to DOT5 (not 5.1) during a restoration years back when I learned that it doesn’t harm your paint should you have a spill or small leak.   Costs a bit more but cheap insurance.  
Bill B
TS30800L

Sent from my Handspring Treo

On Nov 28, 2018, at 1:53 AM, Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:

-- Randall 

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From: Paul Dorsey <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:15:15 -0500

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From: "wbeech" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:32:13 -0600

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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Paul,

Can't see this, are you able to send in another format?   Or is this SPAM?

Bill

From: Paul Dorsey [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 2:15 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: Randall <[email-masked]>; Triumphs <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] Brake fluid for Triumph

Paul Dorsey has sent you an email via Gmail confidential mode:

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<https://confidential-mail.google.com/msg/AOHL9YOZEs_H9L1ykChk5EpNx0L8WgvFIZ
uruD2qcNrNlJFfqe-deLxN848eDwTN26k11UBAoCSrFgnc1sHpXaKPf_ljQP7QAchM_oEdX5nPjw
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This message was sent on Nov 28, 2018 at 12:15:27 PM PST

You can open it by clicking the link below. This link will only work for

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style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Paul,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Can&#8217;t see this, are you able to send in another =
format?&nbsp;&nbsp; Or is this SPAM?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
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Paul Dorsey [mailto:[email-masked]] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, =
November 28, 2018 2:15 PM<br><b>To:</b> [email-masked]<br><b>Cc:</b> =
Randall &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Triumphs =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Brake fluid =
for Triumph<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div =
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From: Paul Dorsey <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 16:47:51 -0500

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Yes, I can.

On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 3:32 PM wbeech <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> Can=E2=80=99t see this, are you able to send in another format?   Or is t=
his SPAM?
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> *From:* Paul Dorsey [mailto:[email-masked]]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 28, 2018 2:15 PM
> *To:* [email-masked]
> *Cc:* Randall <[email-masked]>; Triumphs <[email-masked]>
> *Subject:* Re: [TR] Brake fluid for Triumph
>
>
>
> Paul Dorsey has sent you an email via *Gmail confidential mode:*
>
>
>
> Re: [TR] Brake fluid for Triumph
> <https://confidential-mail.google.com/msg/AOHL9YOZEs_H9L1ykChk5EpNx0L8Wgv=
FIZuruD2qcNrNlJFfqe-deLxN848eDwTN26k11UBAoCSrFgnc1sHpXaKPf_ljQP7QAchM_oEdX5=
nPjwm8DNKjhPh0oVQX>
> [email-masked].
> *View the email*
> <https://confidential-mail.google.com/msg/AOHL9YOZEs_H9L1ykChk5EpNx0L8Wgv=
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>
> Gmail confidential mode gives you more control over the messages you send=
.
> <https://myaccount.google.com/privacypolicy?hl=3Den>
>
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3D1600+Amphitheatre+Parkway,+Mountain+View,+C=
A+94043,+USA&entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
> You have received this message because someone sent you an email via Gmai=
l
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<div>Yes, I can.</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 3:32 PM wbeech &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
et">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-504671=
5524937301583WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Paul,<u></=
u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Can=E2=80=99t see=
 this, are you able to send in another format?=C2=A0=C2=A0 Or is this SPAM?=
<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Bill<u></u><=
u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;pa=
dding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Paul =
Dorsey [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">dorp=
[email-masked]</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 28, 2018 2:15 PM<b=
r><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Wbeech@f=
lash.net</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Randall &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a=
>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Brake fluid for Triumph<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div styl=
e=3D"border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid #f0f0f0 1.0pt;bor=
der-right:solid #f0f0f0 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;border-left:f0f0f0"><=
div style=3D"border:solid #eaeaea 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 24.0pt =
.25in 24.0pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">Paul Do=
rsey has sent you an email via <b>Gmail confidential mode:</b><u></u><u></u=
></span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:whi=
te"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-seri=
f"><img width=3D"32" id=3D"m_-5046715524937301583_x0000_i1025" src=3D"https=
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logo"><a href=3D"https://confidential-mail.google.com/msg/AOHL9YOZEs_H9L1yk=
Chk5EpNx0L8WgvFIZuruD2qcNrNlJFfqe-deLxN848eDwTN26k11UBAoCSrFgnc1sHpXaKPf_lj=
QP7QAchM_oEdX5nPjwm8DNKjhPh0oVQX" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:13.5pt;color:#3367d6;text-decoration:none">Re: [TR] Brake fluid for Trium=
ph</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&=
quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">This message was sent on Nov 28, 2018 at 12:15:=
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will only work for <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">wb=
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rwarding of a message and more. <a href=3D"https://support.google.com/mail/=
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/u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height=
:13.5pt"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:#646464">You have received this message because someone sent yo=
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<td style=3D"padding:10.5pt 7.5pt 0in 7.5pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><img bo=
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From: Sujit Roy <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 16:15:47 -0800

--===============9150174400589523089==

--0000000000006deed3057bc2966b

Hello Randall,
Can I use DOT 5 in the Stag? Do I need to flush out the current DOT 3/ 4?

Sujit

-- 
Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California

https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/

--0000000000006deed3057bc2966b
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hello Randall,<div>Can I use DOT 5 in the Stag? Do I need =
to flush out the current DOT 3/ 4?</div><div><br></div><div>Sujit=C2=A0=C2=
=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Nov =
27, 2018 at 11:54 PM Randall &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">TR3=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">All=
 brake fluid is &quot;synthetic&quot;, as it&#39;s not made from petroleum.=
=C2=A0 The term<br>
is essentially just a marketing ploy; it has no real meaning in this<br>
context.<br>
<br>
And yes, you should always use a freshly opened bottle, then discard the<br=
remainder.=C2=A0 Even their &quot;low moisture activity&quot; fluid still a=
bsorbs water<br>
right from the air, meaning it starts getting old the minute you crack the<=
br>
top.<br>
<br>
Sorry, no idea if the new Castrol is the same as the old Castrol.=C2=A0 I&#=
39;m a big<br>
believer in DOT 5 (which, among other advantages, doesn&#39;t suck water ou=
t of<br>
the air and hence keeps forever in an opened bottle).<br>
<br>
-- Randall <br>
56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver<br>
71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild<br>
71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild <br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div>Sujit Roy<br>Cupertino, California</div><div><br><a href=3D"https:=
//triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/" target=3D"_blank">https://triumphstagblog=
.wordpress.com/</a><br><br></div></div></div>

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 16:58:20 -0800

> Can I use DOT 5 in the Stag? Do I need to flush out the 

Both of my Stags have DOT 5 in them.  LE1473 was converted just by bleeding
through at each corner until clean purple fluid appeared.  The other one
(dubbed Frankenstag because it appears to be parts from at least 3 different
cars) had a failed MC and stuck rear wheel cylinders when I got it, so those
were repaired at the same time.

However, LE1473 already had what seemed to be a minor master cylinder
problem before the conversion (pedal would sometimes drop towards floor
while sitting at a stop light), and it suddenly got a whole lot worse not
long after the conversion (no hydraulic brakes at all).  (I also learned
that the back brakes on a Stag are more prone to fade than a TR3.)
Post-mortem showed both MC piston seals torn, and approximately the
consistency of Gummi Bears.

So I'd have to say that "best practice" is probably to replace the seals at
the same time.

Randall

---

From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 12:57:28 +0000 (UTC)

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 I have heard several anecdotes about folks making the change by just bleed=
ing and experiencing some sort of brake system failure soon there-after.=C2=
=A0 Makes me wonder if they would have suffered the same failure regardless=
.=C2=A0 I think DOT5 gets a bum wrap in these situations even if the seals =
are marginal to begin.=C2=A0 There is little indication that a seal is abou=
t to go so when it does fail one tends to blame the last thing one did to i=
t.=C2=A0 But correlation does not prove causality.=C2=A0 Seals fail when no=
thing is done (especially if nothing is done).
I have converted three cars to DOT 5 and every time it was part of a total =
rebuild of the system.=C2=A0 I converted my TR6 in 1996 and it performed fl=
awlessly for 12 -15 years.=C2=A0 I replaced the master cylinder several yea=
rs back and more recently replaced all the lines (part of the frame repair =
this past year) but the calipers and wheel cylinders are still working just=
 fine.=C2=A0 I converted the TR8 in 2000 and had no issues up until I wreck=
ed the car in 2009 (over 50,000 miles).

I guess the upshot is if your braking system has been performing well for t=
he last 15 - 20 years, you're running on borrowed time.=C2=A0 Start making =
plans to overhaul it soon.=C2=A0 Regardless of what fluid you are using.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Randall <[email-masked]>
To: 'Sujit Roy' <[email-masked]>
Cc: 'Triumphs' <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wed, Nov 28, 2018 11:40 pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Brake fluid for Triumph

> Can I use DOT 5 in the Stag? Do I need to flush out the=20
> current DOT 3/ 4?

Both of my Stags have DOT 5 in them.=C2=A0 LE1473 was converted just by ble=
eding
through at each corner until clean purple fluid appeared.=C2=A0 The other o=
ne
(dubbed Frankenstag because it appears to be parts from at least 3 differen=
t
cars) had a failed MC and stuck rear wheel cylinders when I got it, so thos=
e
were repaired at the same time.

long after the conversion (no hydraulic brakes at all).=C2=A0 (I also learn=
ed

Randall

------=_Part_8259947_44081663.1543496248040
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<font color=3D'black' size=3D'3' face=3D'Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'>
<div> <font size=3D"3">I have heard several anecdotes about folks making th=
e change by just bleeding and experiencing some sort of brake system failur=
e soon there-after.&nbsp; Makes me wonder if they would have suffered the s=
ame failure regardless.&nbsp; I think DOT5 gets a bum wrap in these situati=
ons even if the seals are marginal to begin.&nbsp; There is little indicati=
on that a seal is about to go so when it does fail one tends to blame the l=
ast thing one did to it.&nbsp; But correlation does not prove causality.&nb=
sp; Seals fail when nothing is done (especially if nothing is done).</font>=
</div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">I have converted three cars to DOT 5 and every time i=
t was part of a total rebuild of the system.&nbsp; I converted my TR6 in 19=
96 and it performed flawlessly for 12 -15 years.&nbsp; I replaced the maste=
r cylinder several years back and more recently replaced all the lines (par=
t of the frame repair this past year) but the calipers and wheel cylinders =
are still working just fine.&nbsp; I converted the TR8 in 2000 and had no i=
ssues up until I wrecked the car in 2009 (over 50,000 miles).<br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">I guess the upshot is if your braking system has been=
 performing well for the last 15 - 20 years, you're running on borrowed tim=
e.&nbsp; Start making plans to overhaul it soon.&nbsp; Regardless of what f=
luid you are using.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"clear:both"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br>
<br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Randall &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: 'Sujit Roy' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: 'Triumphs' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Wed, Nov 28, 2018 11:40 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] Brake fluid for Triumph<br>
<br>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">&gt; Can I use DOT 5 in the Stag? Do I =
need to flush out the <br clear=3D"none">&gt; current DOT 3/ 4?<br clear=3D=
"none"><br clear=3D"none">Both of my Stags have DOT 5 in them.&nbsp; LE1473=
 was converted just by bleeding<br clear=3D"none">through at each corner un=
til clean purple fluid appeared.&nbsp; The other one<br clear=3D"none">(dub=
bed Frankenstag because it appears to be parts from at least 3 different<br=
 clear=3D"none">cars) had a failed MC and stuck rear wheel cylinders when I=
 got it, so those<br clear=3D"none">were repaired at the same time.<br clea=
r=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">However, LE1473 already had what seemed to be=
 a minor master cylinder<br clear=3D"none">problem before the conversion (p=
edal would sometimes drop towards floor<br clear=3D"none">while sitting at =
a stop light), and it suddenly got a whole lot worse not<br clear=3D"none">=
long after the conversion (no hydraulic brakes at all).&nbsp; (I also learn=
ed<br clear=3D"none">that the back brakes on a Stag are more prone to fade =
than a TR3.)<br clear=3D"none">Post-mortem showed both MC piston seals torn=
, and approximately the<br clear=3D"none">consistency of Gummi Bears.<br cl=
ear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">So I'd have to say that "best practice" is =
probably to replace the seals at<br clear=3D"none">the same time.
<div class=3D"yqt0104839325" id=3D"yqtfd03952"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none">Randall<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
</div>
</font>
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From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 08:10:15 -0500

--===============0315721466167650718==

--000000000000f6936a057bcd67de

On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 12:47 AM Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:

> <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]>

 I recognize a case of shipwright's disease when I see it, but since I have
more than one car and am not greatly inconvenienced when one is partially
disassembled on stands in the garage; yet I am greatly inconvenienced when
the one I am driving is lying inert in the tall grass on the side of the
road, I tend to go in and completely repair a system when a part of it
needs attention.  If I'm going to replace the wheel cylinders, I'll
replace/upgrade the hoses, and consider the calipers and master as well.
If I'm changing one radiator hose, I'll go ahead and replace all the
radiator and heater hoses, and do a complete flush with the radiator out.
Et cetera.  Saves a lot of sitting and waiting for the flatbed.

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

--000000000000f6936a057bcd67de
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 12:47 AM Randall &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:T=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br><br>
So I&#39;d have to say that &quot;best practice&quot; is probably to replac=
e the seals at<br>
the same time.<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/fis=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"></a></blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>=C2=A0I recognize a case of shipwright&#39;s disease when =
I see it, but since I have more than one car and am not greatly inconvenien=
ced when one is partially disassembled on stands in the garage; yet I am gr=
eatly inconvenienced when the one I am driving is lying inert in the tall g=
rass on the side of the road, I tend to go in and completely repair a syste=
m when a part of it needs attention.=C2=A0 If I&#39;m going to replace the =
wheel cylinders, I&#39;ll replace/upgrade the hoses, and consider the calip=
ers and master as well.=C2=A0 If I&#39;m changing one radiator hose, I&#39;=
ll go ahead and replace all the radiator and heater hoses, and do a complet=
e flush with the radiator out.=C2=A0 Et cetera.=C2=A0 Saves a lot of sittin=
g and waiting for the flatbed.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Jeff=
 Scarbrough</div><div>Corrosion Acres, Ga.=C2=A0</div></div></div></div>

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From: TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 09:40:37 -0500 (EST)

When restoring my 3A in 2002, while the body was off the frame I replaced all the brake lines and hydraulic cylinders.  I learned about Dot 5 silicone based fluid from the List then and went with it. After 15 years of driving, the same brake system remains rock solid plus I never blistered paint with the occasional spill.  Doesn't silicone wear easier on rubber seals?

Terry Smith, '59 TR3A  TS 58667
New Hampshire, where early snows have sent both bears and Triumphs off to the Land of Nod 

> On November 28, 2018 at 7:58 PM Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 08:34:38 -0800

> After 15 years of driving, the same 
> brake system remains rock solid plus I never blistered paint 
> with the occasional spill.  Doesn't silicone wear easier on 
> rubber seals?

Overall, that has been my experience.  New seals seem to last longer with
DOT 5.  For example, I rebuilt the front calipers on my previous TR3A back
around 1987 and switched to DOT 5.  That car is gone, but those calipers are
still working fine on my current TR3.  Even the bleed screws opened up
easily!

The problem (if any) seems to only arise with seals (and hoses) that have
been run for a long time (decades) with DOT 3/4.  It doesn't always happen
even with really old seals, but sometimes they turn to goo when run with DOT
5.

IMO the benefits outweigh the downside; so I'd say that if you can't change
seals, it's still worthwhile to make the change.  I've done that several
times, and it has usually worked out OK.  So I certainly won't way you "have
to" change seals or hoses.

But if you want your best shot at never having hydraulic problems again,
then new seals, new hoses (preferably braided SS over teflon), new aluminum
cylinders if the old ones are anything less than perfect, and new caliper
pistons (again if the old ones aren't perfect) is probably the way to go.

It's been a few years back, but I watched a fellow unload a very nicely
restored TR4 from it's trailer at Triumphest in Ventura.  Beautiful car, a
definite contender for first place in the "Funcours".  Then he opened the
bonnet to see why the brakes didn't work, and found a huge patch of
wrinkled, ruined paint streaming down the firewall from a master cylinder
leak.  He touched it with a finger, and the paint came off.  I don't know
how much it cost to repair that; but I'll bet it was a heck of a lot more
than a bottle of DOT 5.

ISTR they gave him the "Uff da" award (for best hard luck story), but I
don't imagine it was much comfort.

-- Randall

---

From: TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 13:25:54 -0500 (EST)

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Amen to that, Jeff.

> On November 29, 2018 at 8:10 AM Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>     On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 12:47 AM Randall < [email-masked] mailto:[email-masked] > wrote:
> 
>         > > 
>      I recognize a case of shipwright's disease when I see it, but since I have more than one car and am not greatly inconvenienced when one is partially disassembled on stands in the garage; yet I am greatly inconvenienced when the one I am driving is lying inert in the tall grass on the side of the road, I tend to go in and completely repair a system when a part of it needs attention.  If I'm going to replace the wheel cylinders, I'll replace/upgrade the hoses, and consider the calipers and master as well.  If I'm changing one radiator hose, I'll go ahead and replace all the radiator and heater hoses, and do a complete flush with the radiator out.  Et cetera.  Saves a lot of sitting and waiting for the flatbed.
> 
> 
>     Jeff Scarbrough
>     Corrosion Acres, Ga. 

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<!DOCTYPE html>
<html><head>
    <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">
</head><body><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sa=
ns-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Amen to that, Jeff.<br></p><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite">On November 29, 2018 at 8:10 AM Jeff Scarbrough &#60;fishplate=
@gmail.com&#62; wrote: <br> <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br> <br>=
<div class=3D"ox-9c3754b594-gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Nov 29, 2=
018 at 12:47 AM Randall &#60; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">TR3dri=
[email-masked]</a>&#62; wrote: <br></div><blockquote><br> <br> So I&#39;d ha=
ve to say that &#34;best practice&#34; is probably to replace the seals at =
<br> the same time.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>&#160;I recognize a cas=
e of shipwright&#39;s disease when I see it, but since I have more than one=
 car and am not greatly inconvenienced when one is partially disassembled o=
n stands in the garage; yet I am greatly inconvenienced when the one I am d=
riving is lying inert in the tall grass on the side of the road, I tend to =
go in and completely repair a system when a part of it needs attention.&#16=
0; If I&#39;m going to replace the wheel cylinders, I&#39;ll replace/upgrad=
e the hoses, and consider the calipers and master as well.&#160; If I&#39;m=
 changing one radiator hose, I&#39;ll go ahead and replace all the radiator=
 and heater hoses, and do a complete flush with the radiator out.&#160; Et =
cetera.&#160; Saves a lot of sitting and waiting for the flatbed.</div><div=
><br></div><div><br></div><div>Jeff Scarbrough</div><div>Corrosion Acres, G=
a.&#160;</div></div></div></div>** [email-masked] ** <br> <br>Dona=
te: http://www.team.net/donate.html <br>Archive: http://www.team.net/piperm=
ail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive <br> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked] <br></blockqu=
ote></body></html>
=20
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From: Sujit Roy <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 16:01:57 -0800

--===============1969627260653974766==

--000000000000ed9ce6057bd6822c

Thanks. I'll stick with the new black bottle for my current stag. But for
Stag no. 2 which needs brakes seals all round I'll go for DOT 5

On Thu, Nov 29, 2018, 2:48 PM TERRY SMITH <[email-masked] wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 12:47 AM Randall < [email-masked]> wrote:
>
>
>
>  I recognize a case of shipwright's disease when I see it, but since I
> have more than one car and am not greatly inconvenienced when one is
> partially disassembled on stands in the garage; yet I am greatly
> inconvenienced when the one I am driving is lying inert in the tall grass
> on the side of the road, I tend to go in and completely repair a system
> when a part of it needs attention.  If I'm going to replace the wheel
> cylinders, I'll replace/upgrade the hoses, and consider the calipers and
> master as well.  If I'm changing one radiator hose, I'll go ahead and
> replace all the radiator and heater hoses, and do a complete flush with the
> radiator out.  Et cetera.  Saves a lot of sitting and waiting for the
> flatbed.
>
>
> Jeff Scarbrough
> Corrosion Acres, Ga.
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

--000000000000ed9ce6057bd6822c
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">Thanks. I&#39;ll stick with the new black bottle for my c=
urrent stag. But for Stag no. 2 which needs brakes seals all round I&#39;ll=
 go for DOT 5</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, =
Nov 29, 2018, 2:48 PM TERRY SMITH &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u=
></u>

   =20
<div><p style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(51,51,51)">Amen to that, Jeff.<br></p><blockquote type=3D"cite">On No=
vember 29, 2018 at 8:10 AM Jeff Scarbrough &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fishplate@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
 wrote: <br> <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br> <br><div class=3D"m=
_6855289245332112006ox-9c3754b594-gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Nov=
 29, 2018 at 12:47 AM Randall &lt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: <br>=
</div><blockquote><br> <br> So I&#39;d have to say that &quot;best practice=
&quot; is probably to replace the seals at <br> the same time.</blockquote>=
<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0I recognize a case of shipwright&#39;s disease wh=
en I see it, but since I have more than one car and am not greatly inconven=
ienced when one is partially disassembled on stands in the garage; yet I am=
 greatly inconvenienced when the one I am driving is lying inert in the tal=
l grass on the side of the road, I tend to go in and completely repair a sy=
stem when a part of it needs attention.=C2=A0 If I&#39;m going to replace t=
he wheel cylinders, I&#39;ll replace/upgrade the hoses, and consider the ca=
lipers and master as well.=C2=A0 If I&#39;m changing one radiator hose, I&#=
39;ll go ahead and replace all the radiator and heater hoses, and do a comp=
lete flush with the radiator out.=C2=A0 Et cetera.=C2=A0 Saves a lot of sit=
ting and waiting for the flatbed.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>J=
eff Scarbrough</div><div>Corrosion Acres, Ga.=C2=A0</div></div></div></div>=
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