Subject: Re: [TR] New but cheap 20 W 50 Motor oil

From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 19:59:13 -0500

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Sounds like a plan Paul. Be sure to change the filter, each time as a new en=
gine might have some stray bits floating around. =20
Bill

Sent from my Handspring Treo

On Sep 20, 2018, at 5:56 PM, Paul Dorsey <[email-masked]> wrote:

I=E2=80=99ve already bought A small bottle of ZDDP from Moss and I plan to a=
dd it to cheap 20w50 and run it in my rebuilt Motor for 30 minutes. Moss say=
s one bottle does 5 quarts.  It=E2=80=99s been serval years since this motor=
 has run and I did not turn over when it was in storage. After this 30 minut=
e run time I plan to drain it and put in Valvoline racing oil with zinc addi=
tive. I wonder if anyone thinks this is a terrible idea? I have run this mot=
or for about six hours since it was rebuilt.
** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive

ash.net

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Sounds like a plan Paul. Be sure to change t=
he filter, each time as a new engine might have some stray bits floating aro=
und. &nbsp;<div>Bill<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><span style=3D"ba=
ckground-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Sent from my Handspring Treo</span>=
</div><div><br>On Sep 20, 2018, at 5:56 PM, Paul Dorsey &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div><p=
 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 3px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:26px;line-height:=
normal;font-family:&quot;.SF UI Display&quot;;color:rgb(69,69,69)"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:&quot;.SFUIDisplay-Black&quot;;font-weight:bold;font-size:=
26pt">I=E2=80=99ve already bought A small bottle of ZDDP from Moss and I pla=
n to add it to cheap 20w50 and run it in my rebuilt Motor for 30 minutes. Mo=
ss says one bottle does 5 quarts.&nbsp; It=E2=80=99s been serval years since=
 this motor has run and I did not turn over when it was in storage. After th=
is 30 minute run time I plan to drain it and put in Valvoline racing oil wit=
h zinc additive. I wonder if anyone thinks this is a terrible idea? I have r=
un this motor for about six hours since it was rebuilt.</span></p>
</div><div><span>** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">triumphs@auto=
x.team.net</a> **</span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http:/=
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** [email-masked] **

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From: Bud Rolofson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 08:11:13 -0600

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Many not a terrible idea but it=E2=80=99s at least a waste of money. =
Just put Valvoline racing oil in it and be done.

> On Sep 20, 2018, at 4:56 PM, Paul Dorsey <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> I=E2=80=99ve already bought A small bottle of ZDDP from Moss and I =
plan to add it to cheap 20w50 and run it in my rebuilt Motor for 30 =
minutes. Moss says one bottle does 5 quarts.  It=E2=80=99s been serval =
years since this motor has run and I did not turn over when it was in =
storage. After this 30 minute run time I plan to drain it and put in =
Valvoline racing oil with zinc additive. I wonder if anyone thinks this =
is a terrible idea? I have run this motor for about six hours since it =
was rebuilt.
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  =
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Many not a terrible idea but it=E2=80=99s at least a waste of =
money. Just put Valvoline racing oil in it and be done.<div class=3D""><br=
 class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Sep 20, 2018, at 4:56 PM, Paul Dorsey &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><p =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
3px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:26px;line-height:normal;font-family:&quo=
t;.SF UI Display&quot;;color:rgb(69,69,69)" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;.SFUIDisplay-Black&quot;;font-weight:bold;font-=
size:26pt" class=3D"">I=E2=80=99ve already bought A small bottle of ZDDP =
from Moss and I plan to add it to cheap 20w50 and run it in my rebuilt =
Motor for 30 minutes. Moss says one bottle does 5 quarts.&nbsp; It=E2=80=99=
s been serval years since this motor has run and I did not turn over =
when it was in storage. After this 30 minute run time I plan to drain it =
and put in Valvoline racing oil with zinc additive. I wonder if anyone =
thinks this is a terrible idea? I have run this motor for about six =
hours since it was rebuilt.</span></p>
** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a> **<br class=3D""><br =
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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:18:24 -0400

Certainly not "terrible".  But I would skip the 30 minute run with the cheap
oil.  You say you've already got 6 hours of total run time, another 30
minutes isn't going to make any difference.

My experience (long ago) with cheap oil was that it starts producing sludge
almost immediately.  You won't get enough in 30 minutes to hurt anything,
but why go to all that extra effort for something that is less than
desirable?

Save the ZDDP for next time, put the cheap oil in your lawnmower (or on the
curb), and go right to VR1 and your 500 mile break-in.  It's a lot more fun
than watching the engine idle!

IMO, etc

-- Randall

---

From: "Kinderlehrer" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 09:28:24 -0700

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That=E2=80=99s what I did when I rebuilt the engine on my =E2=80=9956 =
pickup. On the advice of the old time auto parts guy, I added a bottle =
of ZDDP, it seemed a bit strange when I poured it in as it was kinda =
gloppy, but what did I know. I didn=E2=80=99t have more than 100 miles =
on that engine before it seized. The rod bearings were practically =
non-existent due to oil starvation.  I have no real proof that it was =
the ZDDP, but I would never use it again, as an additive that is. I do =
use Valvoline racing oil in all my flat tappet engines. Just one data =
point for what it=E2=80=99s worth.

=20

Bob

=20

From: Triumphs [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of =
Paul Dorsey
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 3:57 PM
To: Triumph list Team.net
Subject: [TR] New but cheap 20 W 50 Motor oil

=20

I=E2=80=99ve already bought A small bottle of ZDDP from Moss and I plan =
to add it to cheap 20w50 and run it in my rebuilt Motor for 30 minutes. =
Moss says one bottle does 5 quarts.  It=E2=80=99s been serval years =
since this motor has run and I did not turn over when it was in storage. =
After this 30 minute run time I plan to drain it and put in Valvoline =
racing oil with zinc additive. I wonder if anyone thinks this is a =
terrible idea? I have run this motor for about six hours since it was =
rebuilt.

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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>That=E2=80=99s what I did when I rebuilt the engine on my =E2=80=9956 =
pickup. On the advice of the old time auto parts guy, I added a bottle =
of ZDDP, it seemed a bit strange when I poured it in as it was kinda =
gloppy, but what did I know. I didn=E2=80=99t have more than 100 miles =
on that engine before it seized. The rod bearings were practically =
non-existent due to oil starvation.=C2=A0 I have no real proof that it =
was the ZDDP, but I would never use it again, as an additive that is. I =
do use Valvoline racing oil in all my flat tappet engines. Just one data =
point for what it=E2=80=99s worth.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bob<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Triumphs [mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Paul Dorsey<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 20, 2018 3:57 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Triumph list Team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> [TR] New but =
cheap 20 W 50 Motor oil<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1.8pt;marg=
in-left:0in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:26.0pt;font-family:".SFUIDisplay-Black","serif";color:=
#454545'>I=E2=80=99ve already bought A small bottle of ZDDP from Moss =
and I plan to add it to cheap 20w50 and run it in my rebuilt Motor for =
30 minutes. Moss says one bottle does 5 quarts.&nbsp; It=E2=80=99s been =
serval years since this motor has run and I did not turn over when it =
was in storage. After this 30 minute run time I plan to drain it and put =
in Valvoline racing oil with zinc additive. I wonder if anyone thinks =
this is a terrible idea? I have run this motor for about six hours since =
it was rebuilt.</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:15.5pt;font-family:".SF UI =
Display","serif";color:#454545'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html=
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From: Michael Porter <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 11:47:04 -0600

> but why go to all that extra effort for something that is less than
Ah, sludge.  Which reminds me of a short stint at a independent foreign 
car shop in the `70s.  Two regular clients were retired schoolteachers 
who had identical 1974 Honda Civics, and were in some sort of 
competition with each other.  If one had any work done, the other was in 
for work in a week or two.  If one changed gas stations, so did the 
other.  And, about the time I started at the shop, one changed to Quaker 
State oil... and so did the other about two weeks later.

These were initially pretty clean engines from casual inspection as they 
were being worked on by others, but, after a few months, the valve 
covers and valve gear were loaded with sludge.  The inevitable 
conclusion was that it was the oil.  Never made sense to me, exactly, 
until, years later, I was doing coal-cleaning research, and found, over 
time, that virtually all the coal from eastern Ohio and western 
Pennsylvania was loaded with ash that was chemically bound to the coal, 
and that we'd receive samples that were sometimes 25-30% ash content, 
but perhaps only a quarter of that could be removed physically.  It 
didn't separate from the coal until it was burned.

I suspect that Quaker State then was still using refinery feedstock from 
Pennsylvania (these were the days of peak oil, after all), and 
Pennsylvania oil was mostly in relatively shallow pools near the 
surface, with the same sort of geology as the Pennsylvania coal fields, 
and while coal and oil derive from different flora, the geological 
chemistry might well have been the same.  The oil was full of 
ash-bearing minerals, too, and when the oil gradually broke down from 
heat, the ash precipitated out.  Knowing that, the Quaker State chemists 
probably had to add quite a bit more detergent to their oil, which, as 
it broke down chemically from heat, along with the free minerals, aided 
in the formation of sludge.

So, yeah, there are cheap oils, and ash content might well be the clue 
to why they're cheap.

Cheers.

-- 

Michael Porter
Roswell, NM

Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking 
distance....

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 15:46:39 -0400

> Pennsylvania (these were the days of peak oil, after all), and 

Indeed, they used to brag about "Pennsylvania grade crude oil".  I've also
heard that it is high in paraffin content (heavier fractions that are solid
at room temperature) and thought that might have something to do with sludge
formation.

At any rate, I'll never forget scraping that stuff out with a putty knife.
I've been using Valvoline ever since, and I've never seen anything like it.

-- Randall