Subject: [Tigers] fuel milage

From: clyde mclaughlin via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 20:56:02 +0000 (UTC)

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I need to preface this posting with the idea that everyone will have commen=
ts on their personal experiences and ideas about fuel milage. I don't want =
to start a two week dialog on the subject, but would like to through out a =
few of my opinions on the subject. =C2=A0First and foremost fuel mileage an=
d rear tire =C2=A0wear has a direct correlation to your right foot! Secondl=
y gearing would be the next most bang for the buck, i.e. stock 2:88's and a=
 5speed OD transmission, followed with good engine tuning. =C2=A0Tire size =
that was previously mentioned would be very negligible given the restrictio=
ns of tire/rim combinations for our Tigers. =C2=A0I recall in the 50's when=
 the hot dodders were jacking up the rear with spring shackles and other me=
thods, us sports car people laughed and figure they have done it for fuel m=
ileage because now it is going down hill all the time, Ha Ha! I can comment=
 that my car had 3:54 gears with the 4 speed and a k code engine, mileage a=
bout as poor as it gets, I currently have 3:07 gears with a 5speed and with=
 70-75 highway speed I get 23-25mpg. =C2=A0Carb fuel =C2=A0mixture is about=
 3.5% CO with less than 200HC at idle and runs very well, it will lean out =
to about 2.5%CO and 150HC at a no load 2000rpm. =C2=A0Forgot to mention I h=
ave 13 inch tires, 205/60 rear 185/60 front.
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<div style=3D"color:black;font: 10pt arial;">I need to preface this posting=
 with the idea that everyone will have comments on their personal experienc=
es and ideas about fuel milage. I don't want to start a two week dialog on =
the subject, but would like to through out a few of my opinions on the subj=
ect. &nbsp;First and foremost fuel mileage and rear tire &nbsp;wear has a d=
irect correlation to your right foot! Secondly gearing would be the next mo=
st bang for the buck, i.e. stock 2:88's and a 5speed OD transmission, follo=
wed with good engine tuning. &nbsp;Tire size that was previously mentioned =
would be very negligible given the restrictions of tire/rim combinations fo=
r our Tigers. &nbsp;I recall in the 50's when the hot dodders were jacking =
up the rear with spring shackles and other methods, us sports car people la=
ughed and figure they have done it for fuel mileage because now it is going=
 down hill all the time, Ha Ha! I can comment that my car had 3:54 gears wi=
th the 4 speed and a k code engine, mileage about as poor as it gets, I cur=
rently have 3:07 gears with a 5speed and with 70-75 highway speed I get 23-=
25mpg. &nbsp;Carb fuel &nbsp;mixture is about 3.5% CO with less than 200HC =
at idle and runs very well, it will lean out to about 2.5%CO and 150HC at a=
 no load 2000rpm. &nbsp;Forgot to mention I have 13 inch tires, 205/60 rear=
 185/60 front.<span></span></div>

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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

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From: Allan Ballard <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 14:18:30 -0600

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I want to thank those who responded as you=E2=80=99ve provided much food for=
 thought.

With my engine I=E2=80=99d consider mid-20s MPG to be a victory.

One option that hasn=E2=80=99t been chronicled for those with stock 4 speed t=
op loaders is substitution of the 4th gear with a 5th gear.

For the  open road of course.

~Allan Ballard
~~Mk1a Tiger
~~Series I Alpine=20

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 11, 2021, at 2:56 PM, clyde mclaughlin via Tigers <[email-masked]=
m.net> wrote:
>=20
> I need to preface this posting with the idea that everyone will have comme=
nts on their personal experiences and ideas about fuel milage. I don't want t=
o start a two week dialog on the subject, but would like to through out a fe=
w of my opinions on the subject.  First and foremost fuel mileage and rear t=
ire  wear has a direct correlation to your right foot! Secondly gearing woul=
d be the next most bang for the buck, i.e. stock 2:88's and a 5speed OD tran=
smission, followed with good engine tuning.  Tire size that was previously m=
entioned would be very negligible given the restrictions of tire/rim combina=
tions for our Tigers.  I recall in the 50's when the hot dodders were jackin=
g up the rear with spring shackles and other methods, us sports car people l=
aughed and figure they have done it for fuel mileage because now it is going=
 down hill all the time, Ha Ha! I can comment that my car had 3:54 gears wit=
h the 4 speed and a k code engine, mileage about as poor as it gets, I curre=
ntly have 3:07 gears with a 5speed and with 70-75 highway speed I get 23-25m=
pg.  Carb fuel  mixture is about 3.5% CO with less than 200HC at idle and ru=
ns very well, it will lean out to about 2.5%CO and 150HC at a no load 2000rp=
m.  Forgot to mention I have 13 inch tires, 205/60 rear 185/60 front.
>=20
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e
>=20
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]=
om.com
>=20
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">I want to thank those who responded as you=E2=
=80=99ve provided much food for thought.<div><br></div><div>With my engine I=
=E2=80=99d consider mid-20s MPG to be a victory.</div><div><br></div><div>On=
e option that hasn=E2=80=99t been chronicled for those with stock 4 speed to=
p loaders is substitution of the 4th gear with a 5th gear.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>For the &nbsp;open road of course.</div><div><br></div><div>~Allan B=
allard</div><div>~~Mk1a Tiger</div><div>~~Series I Alpine&nbsp;</div><div><b=
r><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><br>On Dec 11, 2021, at 2:56 PM, clyde mclaughlin via Tigers &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"color:black;font: 10pt arial;">I need to preface this posting w=
ith the idea that everyone will have comments on their personal experiences a=
nd ideas about fuel milage. I don't want to start a two week dialog on the s=
ubject, but would like to through out a few of my opinions on the subject. &=
nbsp;First and foremost fuel mileage and rear tire &nbsp;wear has a direct c=
orrelation to your right foot! Secondly gearing would be the next most bang f=
or the buck, i.e. stock 2:88's and a 5speed OD transmission, followed with g=
ood engine tuning. &nbsp;Tire size that was previously mentioned would be ve=
ry negligible given the restrictions of tire/rim combinations for our Tigers=
. &nbsp;I recall in the 50's when the hot dodders were jacking up the rear w=
ith spring shackles and other methods, us sports car people laughed and figu=
re they have done it for fuel mileage because now it is going down hill all t=
he time, Ha Ha! I can comment that my car had 3:54 gears with the 4 speed an=
d a k code engine, mileage about as poor as it gets, I currently have 3:07 g=
ears with a 5speed and with 70-75 highway speed I get 23-25mpg. &nbsp;Carb f=
uel &nbsp;mixture is about 3.5% CO with less than 200HC at idle and runs ver=
y well, it will lean out to about 2.5%CO and 150HC at a no load 2000rpm. &nb=
sp;Forgot to mention I have 13 inch tires, 205/60 rear 185/60 front.<span></=
span></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>________=
_______________________________________</span><br><span></span><br><span><a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></span><br><sp=
an></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http=
://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://w=
ww.team.net/pipermail/tigers">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a hr=
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span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Thomas Witt via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 20:44:35 +0000 (UTC)

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"... substitution of the 4th gear with a 5th gear"

Are you=C2=A0speaking of swapping only the Toploader 4th gear to something =
equal=C2=A0to an overdrive ratio (meaning 5th Gear - like)..., or are you s=
tating=C2=A0to swap the whole Toploader 4 speed for something like a T-5, 5=
 speed?
The was an overdrive version of the Toploader that had an overdrive 4th gea=
r. But as this link states it was not a performance transmission.=C2=A0http=
://davidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm=C2=A0 =C2=A0I believe is was used o=
nly in the 77-78 Ford Granada. Frankly I frequented wrecking yards back whe=
n they were prevalent (they are virtually non-existent today) and I never r=
ecall seeing anything but automatics. There was also the SROD overdrive 4 s=
peed transmission. It has an equally bad reputation and a shifter location =
issue. Gear spacing was at least one of the problems with these transmissio=
ns. So, unless there is some special gear out there from the Toploader vend=
ors the advantage is mileage only and not any reliability or performance dr=
iving enhancement.

-----Original Message-----
From: Allan Ballard <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: Tiger List List <[email-masked]>
Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2021 12:18 pm
Subject: Re: [Tigers] fuel milage

I want to thank those who responded as you=E2=80=99ve provided much food fo=
r thought.
With my engine I=E2=80=99d consider mid-20s MPG to be a victory.
One option that hasn=E2=80=99t been chronicled for those with stock 4 speed=
 top loaders is substitution of the 4th gear with a 5th gear.
For the =C2=A0open road of course.
~Allan Ballard~~Mk1a Tiger~~Series I Alpine=C2=A0
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 11, 2021, at 2:56 PM, clyde mclaughlin via Tigers <[email-masked]=
.net> wrote:

[email-masked]

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]=
m.com

[email-masked]

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend@verizo=
n.net

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<div style=3D"color:black;font: 10pt arial;">
<div><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: small; font-s=
tyle: italic;">"... substitution of the 4th gear with a 5th gear"</span><br=
</div>

<div><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: small;"><br>
</span></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: small;">Are y=
ou&nbsp;speaking of swapping only the Toploader 4th gear to something equal=
&nbsp;to an overdrive ratio (meaning 5th Gear - like)..., or are you statin=
g&nbsp;to swap the whole Toploader 4 speed for something like a T-5, 5 spee=
d?</span></div>

<div><br>
</div>
The was an overdrive version of the Toploader that had an overdrive 4th gea=
r. But as this link states it was not a performance transmission.&nbsp;http=
://davidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm&nbsp; &nbsp;I believe is was used o=
nly in the 77-78 Ford Granada. Frankly I frequented wrecking yards back whe=
n they were prevalent (they are virtually non-existent today) and I never r=
ecall seeing anything but automatics. There was also the SROD overdrive 4 s=
peed transmission. It has an equally bad reputation and a shifter location =
issue. Gear spacing was at least one of the problems with these transmissio=
ns. So, unless there is some special gear out there from the Toploader vend=
ors the advantage is mileage only and not any reliability or performance dr=
iving enhancement.<br>
<br>
<br>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font=
 size=3D"2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Allan Ballard &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: [email-masked]<br>
Cc: Tiger List List &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2021 12:18 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] fuel milage<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv3593934553">
<div>I want to thank those who responded as you=E2=80=99ve provided much fo=
od for thought.
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>With my engine I=E2=80=99d consider mid-20s MPG to be a victory.</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>One option that hasn=E2=80=99t been chronicled for those with stock 4 =
speed top loaders is substitution of the 4th gear with a 5th gear.</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>For the &nbsp;open road of course.</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>~Allan Ballard</div>

<div>~~Mk1a Tiger</div>

<div>~~Series I Alpine&nbsp;</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv3593934553AppleMailSignature">Sent from my iPhone=
</div>

<div id=3D"yiv3593934553yqt08172" class=3D"yiv3593934553yqt2039238457">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">On Dec 11, 2021, at 2:56 PM, clyde mcla=
ughlin via Tigers &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect=
" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"no=
ne"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">

<div style=3D"color:black;font:10pt arial;">I need to preface this posting =
with the idea that everyone will have comments on their personal experience=
s and ideas about fuel milage. I don't want to start a two week dialog on t=
he subject, but would like to through out a few of my opinions on the subje=
ct. &nbsp;First and foremost fuel mileage and rear tire &nbsp;wear has a di=
rect correlation to your right foot! Secondly gearing would be the next mos=
t bang for the buck, i.e. stock 2:88's and a 5speed OD transmission, follow=
ed with good engine tuning. &nbsp;Tire size that was previously mentioned w=
ould be very negligible given the restrictions of tire/rim combinations for=
 our Tigers. &nbsp;I recall in the 50's when the hot dodders were jacking u=
p the rear with spring shackles and other methods, us sports car people lau=
ghed and figure they have done it for fuel mileage because now it is going =
down hill all the time, Ha Ha! I can comment that my car had 3:54 gears wit=
h the 4 speed and a k code engine, mileage about as poor as it gets, I curr=
ently have 3:07 gears with a 5speed and with 70-75 highway speed I get 23-2=
5mpg. &nbsp;Carb fuel &nbsp;mixture is about 3.5% CO with less than 200HC a=
t idle and runs very well, it will lean out to about 2.5%CO and 150HC at a =
no load 2000rpm. &nbsp;Forgot to mention I have 13 inch tires, 205/60 rear =
185/60 front.<span></span></div>

</div>
</blockquote></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span>_______________________________________________</spa=
n><br clear=3D"none"><span></span><br clear=3D"none"><span><a rel=3D"nofoll=
ow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked].=
net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
eam.net</a></span><br clear=3D"none"><span></span><br clear=3D"none"><span>=
lank" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.h=
tml</a></span><br clear=3D"none"><span>Archive: <a rel=3D"nofollow noopener=
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w noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://auto=
x.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a></span><br clear=3D"no=
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t/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]</a></span><br clear=3D"none=
"><span></span><br clear=3D"none"><span></span><br clear=3D"none"></div>
</blockquote></div>
</div>
</div>

<div class=3D"yqt2039238457" id=3D"yqt55821">______________________________=
_________________<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" ym=
ailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a=
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rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.team.net/pipermail/tigers </a><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.=
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[email-masked]

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From: twotigers--- via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 16:17:35 -0800

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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Look up Malibu Revue on the CAT website. He=E2=80=99s done a lot of =
toploaders with the (IIRC) 2.72 final drive.

=20

From: Tigers <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Thomas Witt =
via Tigers
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2021 12:45 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Tigers] fuel milage

=20

=20

Are you speaking of swapping only the Toploader 4th gear to something =
equal to an overdrive ratio (meaning 5th Gear - like)..., or are you =
stating to swap the whole Toploader 4 speed for something like a T-5, 5 =
speed?

=20

The was an overdrive version of the Toploader that had an overdrive 4th =
gear. But as this link states it was not a performance transmission. =
http://davidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm   I believe is was used only =
in the 77-78 Ford Granada. Frankly I frequented wrecking yards back when =
they were prevalent (they are virtually non-existent today) and I never =
recall seeing anything but automatics. There was also the SROD overdrive =
4 speed transmission. It has an equally bad reputation and a shifter =
location issue. Gear spacing was at least one of the problems with these =
transmissions. So, unless there is some special gear out there from the =
Toploader vendors the advantage is mileage only and not any reliability =
or performance driving enhancement.

-----Original Message-----
From: Allan Ballard <[email-masked] =
Cc: Tiger List List <[email-masked] =
Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2021 12:18 pm
Subject: Re: [Tigers] fuel milage

I want to thank those who responded as you=E2=80=99ve provided much food =
for thought.=20

=20

=20

One option that hasn=E2=80=99t been chronicled for those with stock 4 =
speed top loaders is substitution of the 4th gear with a 5th gear.

=20

=20

~Allan Ballard

~~Mk1a Tiger

~~Series I Alpine=20

=20

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 11, 2021, at 2:56 PM, clyde mclaughlin via Tigers =

I need to preface this posting with the idea that everyone will have =
comments on their personal experiences and ideas about fuel milage. I =
don't want to start a two week dialog on the subject, but would like to =
through out a few of my opinions on the subject.  First and foremost =
fuel mileage and rear tire  wear has a direct correlation to your right =
foot! Secondly gearing would be the next most bang for the buck, i.e. =
stock 2:88's and a 5speed OD transmission, followed with good engine =
tuning.  Tire size that was previously mentioned would be very =
negligible given the restrictions of tire/rim combinations for our =
Tigers.  I recall in the 50's when the hot dodders were jacking up the =
rear with spring shackles and other methods, us sports car people =
laughed and figure they have done it for fuel mileage because now it is =
going down hill all the time, Ha Ha! I can comment that my car had 3:54 =
gears with the 4 speed and a k code engine, mileage about as poor as it =
gets, I currently have 3:07 gears with a 5speed and with 70-75 highway =
speed I get 23-25mpg.  Carb fuel  mixture is about 3.5% CO with less =
than 200HC at idle and runs very well, it will lean out to about 2.5%CO =
and 150HC at a no load 2000rpm.  Forgot to mention I have 13 inch tires, =
205/60 rear 185/60 front.

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers =
http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers  =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]

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</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Look up Malibu Revue on the =
CAT website. He=E2=80=99s done a lot of toploaders with the (IIRC) 2.72 =
final drive.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Tigers =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Thomas Witt =
via Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 17, 2021 12:45 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> [email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] =
fuel milage<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&qu=
ot;... substitution of the 4th gear with a 5th =
gear&quot;</span></i><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Are=
 you&nbsp;speaking of swapping only the Toploader 4th gear to something =
equal&nbsp;to an overdrive ratio (meaning 5th Gear - like)..., or are =
you stating&nbsp;to swap the whole Toploader 4 speed for something like =
a T-5, 5 speed?</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The=
 was an overdrive version of the Toploader that had an overdrive 4th =
gear. But as this link states it was not a performance =
transmission.&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://davidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm">http://davidkeetoplo=
aders.com/imposters.htm</a>&nbsp; &nbsp;I believe is was used only in =
the 77-78 Ford Granada. Frankly I frequented wrecking yards back when =
they were prevalent (they are virtually non-existent today) and I never =
recall seeing anything but automatics. There was also the SROD overdrive =
4 speed transmission. It has an equally bad reputation and a shifter =
location issue. Gear spacing was at least one of the problems with these =
transmissions. So, unless there is some special gear out there from the =
Toploader vendors the advantage is mileage only and not any reliability =
or performance driving enhancement.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>---=
--Original Message-----<br>From: Allan Ballard &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>=
To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</=
a><br>Cc: Tiger List List &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Se=
nt: Fri, Dec 17, 2021 12:18 pm<br>Subject: Re: [Tigers] fuel =
milage<o:p></o:p></span></p><div id=3Dyiv3593934553><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I =
want to thank those who responded as you=E2=80=99ve provided much food =
for thought. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Wit=
h my engine I=E2=80=99d consider mid-20s MPG to be a =
victory.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>One=
 option that hasn=E2=80=99t been chronicled for those with stock 4 speed =
top loaders is substitution of the 4th gear with a 5th =
gear.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>For=
 the &nbsp;open road of course.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>~Al=
lan Ballard<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>~~M=
k1a Tiger<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>~~S=
eries I Alpine&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div id=3Dyiv3593934553AppleMailSignature><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Sen=
t from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3Dyiv3593934553yqt08172><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><br=
>On Dec 11, 2021, at 2:56 PM, clyde mclaughlin via Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I =
need to preface this posting with the idea that everyone will have =
comments on their personal experiences and ideas about fuel milage. I =
don't want to start a two week dialog on the subject, but would like to =
through out a few of my opinions on the subject. &nbsp;First and =
foremost fuel mileage and rear tire &nbsp;wear has a direct correlation =
to your right foot! Secondly gearing would be the next most bang for the =
buck, i.e. stock 2:88's and a 5speed OD transmission, followed with good =
engine tuning. &nbsp;Tire size that was previously mentioned would be =
very negligible given the restrictions of tire/rim combinations for our =
Tigers. &nbsp;I recall in the 50's when the hot dodders were jacking up =
the rear with spring shackles and other methods, us sports car people =
laughed and figure they have done it for fuel mileage because now it is =
going down hill all the time, Ha Ha! I can comment that my car had 3:54 =
gears with the 4 speed and a k code engine, mileage about as poor as it =
gets, I currently have 3:07 gears with a 5speed and with 70-75 highway =
speed I get 23-25mpg. &nbsp;Carb fuel &nbsp;mixture is about 3.5% CO =
with less than 200HC at idle and runs very well, it will lean out to =
about 2.5%CO and 150HC at a no load 2000rpm. &nbsp;Forgot to mention I =
have 13 inch tires, 205/60 rear 185/60 =
front.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>___=
____________________________________________<br><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><br>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscribe: =
<a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]=
om" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard@i=
x.netcom.com</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></=
div></div><div id=3Dyqt55821><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>___=
____________________________________________<br><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><br>Do=
nate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers </a><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscribe: =
<a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]=
et" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend=
@verizon.net</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></b=
ody></html>
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[email-masked]

--===============2819541701453844311==--

---

From: Gary <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 16:32:38 -0800

--===============1640320380412737301==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-6ABC527B-7235-46C2-829D-6C0CC94D0A01
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

If you are willing to modify your Tiger,
just put in a 5 speed, it is the best solution!
Don=E2=80=99t put in a big cam and leave the stock=20
rear end.
Gary

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 17, 2021, at 4:19 PM, twotigers--- via Tigers <[email-masked]=
t> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Look up Malibu Revue on the CAT website. He=E2=80=99s done a lot of toploa=
ders with the (IIRC) 2.72 final drive.
> =20
> From: Tigers <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Thomas Witt via T=
igers
> Are you speaking of swapping only the Toploader 4th gear to something equa=
l to an overdrive ratio (meaning 5th Gear - like)..., or are you stating to s=
wap the whole Toploader 4 speed for something like a T-5, 5 speed?
> =20
> The was an overdrive version of the Toploader that had an overdrive 4th ge=
ar. But as this link states it was not a performance transmission. http://da=
vidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm   I believe is was used only in the 77-78=
 Ford Granada. Frankly I frequented wrecking yards back when they were preva=
lent (they are virtually non-existent today) and I never recall seeing anyth=
ing but automatics. There was also the SROD overdrive 4 speed transmission. I=
t has an equally bad reputation and a shifter location issue. Gear spacing w=
as at least one of the problems with these transmissions. So, unless there i=
s some special gear out there from the Toploader vendors the advantage is mi=
leage only and not any reliability or performance driving enhancement.
> I want to thank those who responded as you=E2=80=99ve provided much food f=
or thought.
> One option that hasn=E2=80=99t been chronicled for those with stock 4 spee=
d top loaders is substitution of the 4th gear with a 5th gear.
e
om.com
e
>=20
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend@veriz=
on.net
e
>=20
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad@comc=
ast.net

--Apple-Mail-6ABC527B-7235-46C2-829D-6C0CC94D0A01
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">If you are willing to modify your Tiger,<di=
v>just put in a 5 speed, it is the best solution!</div><div>Don=E2=80=99t pu=
t in a big cam and leave the stock&nbsp;</div><div>rear end.</div><div>Gary<=
/div><div><br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Dec 17, 2021, at 4:19 PM, twotigers--- via=
 Tigers &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><bloc=
kquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-T=
ype" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta name=3D"Generator" content=
=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
	{font-family:"Cambria Math";
	panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
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	panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{margin:0in;
	font-size:11.0pt;
	font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle19
	{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
	font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
	color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
	{mso-style-type:export-only;
	font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
@page WordSection1
	{size:8.5in 11.0in;
	margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
	{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal">Look up Malibu Revue on the CAT website. He=E2=80=99s done a lot of=
 toploaders with the (IIRC) 2.72 final drive.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1=
E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Tige=
rs &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Thomas Witt via=
 Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 17, 2021 12:45 PM<br><b>To:</b> tig=
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] fuel milage<o:p></o:p></p=
></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:black">"... substitution of the 4th gear with a 5th gear"</spa=
n></i><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-ser=
if;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:b=
lack"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black=
">Are you&nbsp;speaking of swapping only the Toploader 4th gear to something=
 equal&nbsp;to an overdrive ratio (meaning 5th Gear - like)..., or are you s=
tating&nbsp;to swap the whole Toploader 4 speed for something like a T-5, 5 s=
peed?</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;c=
olor:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">The was an overdrive version of the Topload=
er that had an overdrive 4th gear. But as this link states it was not a perf=
ormance transmission.&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://davidkeetoploaders.com/imposter=
s.htm">http://davidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm</a>&nbsp; &nbsp;I believe=
 is was used only in the 77-78 Ford Granada. Frankly I frequented wrecking y=
ards back when they were prevalent (they are virtually non-existent today) a=
nd I never recall seeing anything but automatics. There was also the SROD ov=
erdrive 4 speed transmission. It has an equally bad reputation and a shifter=
 location issue. Gear spacing was at least one of the problems with these tr=
ansmissions. So, unless there is some special gear out there from the Toploa=
der vendors the advantage is mileage only and not any reliability or perform=
ance driving enhancement.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">-----Original Message-----<b=
r>From: Allan Ballard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">aballard=
@ix.netcom.com</a>&gt;<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a><br>Cc: Tiger List List &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Sent: Fri, Dec 17,=
 2021 12:18 pm<br>Subject: Re: [Tigers] fuel milage<o:p></o:p></span></p><di=
v id=3D"yiv3593934553"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">I want to thank=
 those who responded as you=E2=80=99ve provided much food for thought. <o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">With my engine I=E2=80=99=
d consider mid-20s MPG to be a victory.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&q=
uot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:black">One option that hasn=E2=80=99t been chronicled for t=
hose with stock 4 speed top loaders is substitution of the 4th gear with a 5=
th gear.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">For the &=
nbsp;open road of course.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;co=
lor:black">~Allan Ballard<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">~~Mk1a Tiger<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:black">~~Series I Alpine&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&q=
uot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div id=3D"yiv35939=
34553AppleMailSignature"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Sent from my iPhon=
e<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id=3D"yiv3593934553yqt08172"><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><br>On Dec 11, 2021,=
 at 2:56 PM, clyde mclaughlin via Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.=
team.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">I need to preface this posting wit=
h the idea that everyone will have comments on their personal experiences an=
d ideas about fuel milage. I don't want to start a two week dialog on the su=
bject, but would like to through out a few of my opinions on the subject. &n=
bsp;First and foremost fuel mileage and rear tire &nbsp;wear has a direct co=
rrelation to your right foot! Secondly gearing would be the next most bang f=
or the buck, i.e. stock 2:88's and a 5speed OD transmission, followed with g=
ood engine tuning. &nbsp;Tire size that was previously mentioned would be ve=
ry negligible given the restrictions of tire/rim combinations for our Tigers=
. &nbsp;I recall in the 50's when the hot dodders were jacking up the rear w=
ith spring shackles and other methods, us sports car people laughed and figu=
re they have done it for fuel mileage because now it is going down hill all t=
he time, Ha Ha! I can comment that my car had 3:54 gears with the 4 speed an=
d a k code engine, mileage about as poor as it gets, I currently have 3:07 g=
ears with a 5speed and with 70-75 highway speed I get 23-25mpg. &nbsp;Carb f=
uel &nbsp;mixture is about 3.5% CO with less than 200HC at idle and runs ver=
y well, it will lean out to about 2.5%CO and 150HC at a no load 2000rpm. &nb=
sp;Forgot to mention I have 13 inch tires, 205/60 rear 185/60 front.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top=
:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bott=
om:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:black">_______________________________________________<br><br>=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
.net</a><br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://w=
ww.team.net/pipermail/tigers" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermai=
l/tigers</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscribe: <a href=3D"http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]</a><br><br>=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div id=3D"yqt558=
21"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">________=
_______________________________________<br><br><a href=3D"mailto:tigers@auto=
x.team.net">[email-masked]</a><br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.t=
eam.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><b=
r>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" target=3D"_blank=
">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers </a><a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/=
archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscr=
ibe: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend@veri=
zon.net" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwi=
[email-masked]</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div>=
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span></span=
><br><span>[email-masked]</span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: ht=
tp://www.team.net/donate.html</span><br><span>Archive: http://www.team.net/p=
ipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive</span><br><span></span><br><sp=
an>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad@com=
cast.net</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></di=
v></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

--===============1640320380412737301==--

---

From: Theo Smit <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021 17:34:46 -0700 (MST)

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	charset=utf-8
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[email-masked]

--===============0391649136922490194==--

---

From: Thomas Witt via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2021 03:42:29 +0000 (UTC)

--===============6858630341795911881==
	boundary="----=_Part_2453629_1574261662.1639798949051"

------=_Part_2453629_1574261662.1639798949051
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Found=C2=A0 the post.=C2=A0 https://www.catmbr.org/cat-forum/threads/toploa=
der.4170/=C2=A0 He used the 2.90 1st gear and then used 2.72 rear gears. So=
, yes, he did get the effect of an overdrive without=C2=A0 the final Toploa=
der ratio changing from 1 to 1. Jeep used a Toploader in 1980-86 that had a=
 3.00 1st gear and rather even spacing. It is known as the T-178. Looked lo=
ng and hard for one of those and never found it. I believe it was used in t=
he larger pick up they had at the time. Likely not strong enough for a buil=
t engine but for a stock to mild engine it accomplished what Malibu Review =
did and you got an aluminum case too.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
To: 'Thomas Witt' <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2021 4:17 pm
Subject: RE: [Tigers] fuel milage

<!--#yiv2112549793 _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv2112549793 #yiv2112549793 p=
.yiv2112549793MsoNormal, #yiv2112549793 li.yiv2112549793MsoNormal, #yiv2112=
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9793MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2112549793 span=
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ext;}#yiv2112549793 .yiv2112549793MsoChpDefault {font-family:"Calibri", san=
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k up Malibu Revue on the CAT website. He=E2=80=99s done a lot of toploaders=
 with the (IIRC) 2.72 final drive. =C2=A0From: Tigers <tigers-bounces@autox=
.team.net> On Behalf Of Thomas Witt via Tigers
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2021 12:45 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Tigers] fuel milage =C2=A0"... substitution of the 4th gear w=
ith a 5th gear" =C2=A0Are you=C2=A0speaking of swapping only the Toploader =
4th gear to something equal=C2=A0to an overdrive ratio (meaning 5th Gear - =
like)..., or are you stating=C2=A0to swap the whole Toploader 4 speed for s=
omething like a T-5, 5 speed? =C2=A0The was an overdrive version of the Top=
loader that had an overdrive 4th gear. But as this link states it was not a=
 performance transmission.=C2=A0http://davidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0I believe is was used only in the 77-78 Ford Granada. Frankly =
I frequented wrecking yards back when they were prevalent (they are virtual=
ly non-existent today) and I never recall seeing anything but automatics. T=
here was also the SROD overdrive 4 speed transmission. It has an equally ba=
d reputation and a shifter location issue. Gear spacing was at least one of=
 the problems with these transmissions. So, unless there is some special ge=
ar out there from the Toploader vendors the advantage is mileage only and n=
ot any reliability or performance driving enhancement.

-----Original Message-----
From: Allan Ballard <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: Tiger List List <[email-masked]>
Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2021 12:18 pm
Subject: Re: [Tigers] fuel milageI want to thank those who responded as you=
=E2=80=99ve provided much food for thought.  =C2=A0With my engine I=E2=80=
=99d consider mid-20s MPG to be a victory. =C2=A0One option that hasn=E2=80=
=99t been chronicled for those with stock 4 speed top loaders is substituti=
on of the 4th gear with a 5th gear. =C2=A0For the =C2=A0open road of course=
. =C2=A0~Allan Ballard~~Mk1a Tiger~~Series I Alpine=C2=A0 =C2=A0Sent from m=
y iPhone
On Dec 11, 2021, at 2:56 PM, clyde mclaughlin via Tigers <[email-masked]=
.net> wrote:
I need to preface this posting with the idea that everyone will have commen=
ts on their personal experiences and ideas about fuel milage. I don't want =
to start a two week dialog on the subject, but would like to through out a =
few of my opinions on the subject. =C2=A0First and foremost fuel mileage an=
d rear tire =C2=A0wear has a direct correlation to your right foot! Secondl=
y gearing would be the next most bang for the buck, i.e. stock 2:88's and a=
 5speed OD transmission, followed with good engine tuning. =C2=A0Tire size =
that was previously mentioned would be very negligible given the restrictio=
ns of tire/rim combinations for our Tigers. =C2=A0I recall in the 50's when=
 the hot dodders were jacking up the rear with spring shackles and other me=
thods, us sports car people laughed and figure they have done it for fuel m=
ileage because now it is going down hill all the time, Ha Ha! I can comment=
 that my car had 3:54 gears with the 4 speed and a k code engine, mileage a=
bout as poor as it gets, I currently have 3:07 gears with a 5speed and with=
 70-75 highway speed I get 23-25mpg. =C2=A0Carb fuel =C2=A0mixture is about=
 3.5% CO with less than 200HC at idle and runs very well, it will lean out =
to about 2.5%CO and 150HC at a no load 2000rpm. =C2=A0Forgot to mention I h=
ave 13 inch tires, 205/60 rear 185/60 front.

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

------=_Part_2453629_1574261662.1639798949051
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div style=3D"color:black;font: 10pt arial;">Found&nbsp; the post.&nbsp; ht=
tps://www.catmbr.org/cat-forum/threads/toploader.4170/&nbsp; He used the 2.=
90 1st gear and then used 2.72 rear gears. So, yes, he did get the <span st=
yle=3D"font-style: italic;">effect</span> of an overdrive without&nbsp; the=
 final Toploader ratio changing from 1 to 1. Jeep used a Toploader in 1980-=
86 that had a 3.00 1st gear and rather even spacing. It is known as the T-1=
78. Looked long and hard for one of those and never found it. I believe it =
was used in the larger pick up they had at the time. Likely not strong enou=
gh for a built engine but for a stock to mild engine it accomplished what M=
alibu Review did and you got an aluminum case too.<br>
<br>
<br>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font=
 size=3D"2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: [email-masked]<br>
To: 'Thomas Witt' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; [email-masked]<br>
Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2021 4:17 pm<br>
Subject: RE: [Tigers] fuel milage<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv2112549793"><style><!--
#yiv2112549793 =20
 _filtered {}
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#yiv2112549793 a:link, #yiv2112549793 span.yiv2112549793MsoHyperlink
=09{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
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<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793WordSection1">
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal">Look up Malibu Revue on the CAT websi=
te. He=E2=80=99s done a lot of toploaders with the (IIRC) 2.72 final drive.=
</div>

<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</div>

<div id=3D"yiv2112549793yqt59752" class=3D"yiv2112549793yqt4461006226">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in;">
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Tigers &lt;tigers-bounce=
[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Thomas Witt via Tigers<br clear=3D=
"none"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 17, 2021 12:45 PM<br clear=3D"none"><b=
>To:</b> [email-masked]<br clear=3D"none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tiger=
s] fuel milage</div>
</div>

<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</div>

<div>
<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;fo=
nt-family:sans-serif;color:black;">"... substitution of the 4th gear with a=
 5th gear"</span></i><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif=
;color:black;"></span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;">Are you&nbsp;speaking of swapping only the =
Toploader 4th gear to something equal&nbsp;to an overdrive ratio (meaning 5=
th Gear - like)..., or are you stating&nbsp;to swap the whole Toploader 4 s=
peed for something like a T-5, 5 speed?</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"></span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;" class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">The was an =
overdrive version of the Toploader that had an overdrive 4th gear. But as t=
his link states it was not a performance transmission.&nbsp;<a rel=3D"nofol=
low noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://da=
vidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm">http://davidkeetoploaders.com/imposters=
.htm</a>&nbsp; &nbsp;I believe is was used only in the 77-78 Ford Granada. =
Frankly I frequented wrecking yards back when they were prevalent (they are=
 virtually non-existent today) and I never recall seeing anything but autom=
atics. There was also the SROD overdrive 4 speed transmission. It has an eq=
ually bad reputation and a shifter location issue. Gear spacing was at leas=
t one of the problems with these transmissions. So, unless there is some sp=
ecial gear out there from the Toploader vendors the advantage is mileage on=
ly and not any reliability or performance driving enhancement.<br clear=3D"=
none"><br clear=3D"none"></span></div>

<div>
<div style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;" class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">-----Origin=
al Message-----<br clear=3D"none">From: Allan Ballard &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollo=
w noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked].=
com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
etcom.com</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">To: <a rel=3D"nofollow noopener norefer=
rer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">clydemclaughlin@ver=
izon.net</a><br clear=3D"none">Cc: Tiger List List &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow n=
oopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked].=
net</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2021 12:18 pm<br clear=3D"=
none">Subject: Re: [Tigers] fuel milage</span></div>

<div id=3D"yiv2112549793">
<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;">I want to thank those who responded as you=
=E2=80=99ve provided much food for thought. </span></div>

<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;">With my engine I=E2=80=99d consider mid-20s=
 MPG to be a victory.</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;">One option that hasn=E2=80=99t been chronic=
led for those with stock 4 speed top loaders is substitution of the 4th gea=
r with a 5th gear.</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;">For the &nbsp;open road of course.</span></=
div>
</div>

<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;">~Allan Ballard</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;">~~Mk1a Tiger</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;">~~Series I Alpine&nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>

<div id=3D"yiv2112549793AppleMailSignature">
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;">Sent from my iPhone</span></div>
</div>

<div id=3D"yiv2112549793yqt08172">
<div>
<div style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;" class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"><br clear=
=3D"none">On Dec 11, 2021, at 2:56 PM, clyde mclaughlin via Tigers &lt;<a r=
el=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:tigers=
@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">ti=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</span></div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<div>
<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;">I need to preface this posting with the ide=
a that everyone will have comments on their personal experiences and ideas =
about fuel milage. I don't want to start a two week dialog on the subject, =
but would like to through out a few of my opinions on the subject. &nbsp;Fi=
rst and foremost fuel mileage and rear tire &nbsp;wear has a direct correla=
tion to your right foot! Secondly gearing would be the next most bang for t=
he buck, i.e. stock 2:88's and a 5speed OD transmission, followed with good=
 engine tuning. &nbsp;Tire size that was previously mentioned would be very=
 negligible given the restrictions of tire/rim combinations for our Tigers.=
 &nbsp;I recall in the 50's when the hot dodders were jacking up the rear w=
ith spring shackles and other methods, us sports car people laughed and fig=
ure they have done it for fuel mileage because now it is going down hill al=
l the time, Ha Ha! I can comment that my car had 3:54 gears with the 4 spee=
d and a k code engine, mileage about as poor as it gets, I currently have 3=
:07 gears with a 5speed and with 70-75 highway speed I get 23-25mpg. &nbsp;=
Carb fuel &nbsp;mixture is about 3.5% CO with less than 200HC at idle and r=
uns very well, it will lean out to about 2.5%CO and 150HC at a no load 2000=
rpm. &nbsp;Forgot to mention I have 13 inch tires, 205/60 rear 185/60 front=
.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<div>
<div style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;" class=3D"yiv2112549793MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">___________=
____________________________________<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><=
a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:tig=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a =
rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=
=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br=
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Mark Rense <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2021 14:22:18 -0500

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When I built a Tiger just for me I found a 2.72:1 rear gear set from a =E2=
=80=9880
Corvette, installed a TracLoc diff, and converted the Toploader to a
standard wide ratio. I built a 5-bolt 289 into a 331 CI with 400 HP. Even
with a Holley 670 it gets low 20=E2=80=99s mpg cruising comfortably at 75mp=
h.
That=E2=80=99s on 205/60-14=E2=80=9D tires.
Bugz

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<div dir=3D"auto">When I built a Tiger just for me I found a 2.72:1 rear ge=
ar set from a =E2=80=9880 Corvette, installed a TracLoc diff, and converted=
 the Toploader to a standard wide ratio. I built a 5-bolt 289 into a 331 CI=
 with 400 HP. Even with a Holley 670 it gets low 20=E2=80=99s mpg cruising =
comfortably at 75mph. That=E2=80=99s on 205/60-14=E2=80=9D tires.</div><div=
 dir=3D"auto">Bugz</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br><=
/div>

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[email-masked]

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