Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 11, Issue 181

From: TREVOR NEMETH via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 20:24:23 +0000 (UTC)

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 Re: Tiger overheating.
You state that your fan is one inch from the radiator and that you are not =
using a fan shroud.. IMO without a shroud and that much space between fan a=
nd radiator, the air is not being pulled through the radiator at idle. Its =
just churning engine compartment air. All cars use shrouds to pull air thro=
ugh the whole radiator. Pusher fans in front of radiators only cool the are=
a directly in front of the fan, the bigger the better, but they do help.=C2=
=A0 Put a propper shroud in place and you may have solved your problem.Good=
 luck,
Trevor Nemeth
    On Tuesday, June 18, 2019, 11:01:26 AM PDT, [email-masked]=
et <[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
 Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [email-masked]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [email-masked]

You can reach the person managing the list at
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [email-masked]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."

Today's Topics:

=C2=A0 1. Re:=C2=A0 Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approach (Tom Witt)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 10:40:05 -0700
From: "Tom Witt" <[email-masked]>
To: "Tiger List Serve" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Tigers]=C2=A0 Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approach

I know this has been a long running problem for you. And as time moves on I=
 can?t remember what has or hasn?t been said. Aside from the obvious (clogg=
ed radiator/engine, blades eroded off water pumps, air pockets etc.) there =
have been other causes of high temperature readings:

1. There might not actually be a problem with the cooling. Rather the volta=
ge regulator for the temp gauge may be defective and causing a higher than =
actual reading.

2. The lower radiator hose collapses. This typically happens as the rpm?s i=
ncrease (so not an ?at idle? issue) the lower hose sucks in and pinches flo=
w. A stainless steel spring set internal to the hose (many source this from=
 a lawn sprinkler) prevents the collapse.

The blocking plates and other means of preventing hot air recirculation are=
 helpful.=C2=A0 I?ve seen a flat sheet of aluminum between the lower sectio=
n of the grill area and the radiator.=C2=A0 My understanding of the air dam=
 is that it is more effective at speed. I was told it generates a negative =
air pressure to draw air from the engine compartment.=C2=A0 I truly believe=
 a shroud would be very helpful. Otherwise to some extent you are simply ch=
urning hot air already under the hood. A well fitting shroud would ensure a=
ir is drawn externally. As noted others have found an electric pusher fan h=
elpful.

In this day and age of the GoPro camera I think it would be interesting to =
to do the old school yarn application and observe what is actually going on=
 under the hood, under the car, and the external areas such as the horn ope=
nings and proposed air dam areas etc. A few well placed homemade man-o-mete=
rs might be informative too.

Then there are the arguments as to whether a high flow water pump pulls hot=
 coolant out of the engine faster (good) or pushes it too fast through the =
radiator (bad). Is coolant good because it raises the boiling point, or bad=
 because it is less efficient than straight water.=C2=A0 There are the peop=
le with a stock cooling system (and sometimes performance enhancements to t=
he engine) that claim they never have a heat issue in a hot climate and tho=
se in cooler climates that have stock engines and every cooling enhancement=
 known to Tigerdom and they constantly have issues.

In the end I hope you are successful and enjoy a the summer driving your no=
w running cool Tiger.

From: Joel Martin via Tigers=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:04 AM
To: Tiger List Serve=20
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approach

After about a year of struggling with overheating at idle with the hood dow=
n, I took drastic steps.=C2=A0 I have been driving the car during the last =
year only on back roads with no chance of traffic lights.=20

=C2=A0 1.. Purchased and installed SS gloss black radiator overflow tank.=
=20
=C2=A0 2.. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Wash=
ick [email-masked] which are powder coated.=20
=C2=A0 3.. Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert =
Straghan <[email-masked]> scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black=
=20
=C2=A0 4.. Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen <=
[email-masked]> scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black.=20
=C2=A0 5.. Purchased and installed new taller Tiger aluminum cross flow sid=
e tank radiator from Griffin Radiator.=20
=C2=A0 6.. Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 pain=
ted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to =
line up.=20
=C2=A0 7.. Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? fr=
om radiator.=20
=C2=A0 8.. Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan.=20
=C2=A0 9.. Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to ra=
diator hoses.=20
=C2=A0 10.. New top radiator hose from local source as SS hose would not fi=
t taller radiator.=20
=C2=A0 11.. New fan belt.=20
=C2=A0 12.. Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would=
 not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to=
 fit my taller radiator.=C2=A0 Stripped, primed and painted used shroud sem=
i gloss black ? sitting on shelf.=20
=C2=A0 13.. Installed 160 degree thermostat.
So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom.=C2=
=A0 Other changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member =
to bottom of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play=
 out this summer.

Results as follows:

Cold start with 86 degree ambient outside temperature ? at idle with hood c=
losed, car in sun.

5 Minutes engine temperature 174 degrees.

9 Minutes engine temperature 180 degrees.

12 Minutes engine temperature 190 degrees.

14 Minutes engine temperature 195 degrees.

16 Minutes engine temperature 200 degrees.

Run the motor at 1500 rpm?s for 1minute temperature drops to 196 degrees.

Run the motor at 2000 rpm?s for another 1minute temperature drops to 194 de=
grees.

Turn motor off and in a total of 27 minutes from startup - heat soak is 208=
 degrees.

All this is recorded from temporary mechanical temperature gauge located un=
der dash.

The car temperature at any speed is at 174 degrees regardless of the outsid=
e ambient temperature from 50?s to mid 90?s.

Whew, maybe at last can enjoy car with a couple of things still outstanding=
 to be able to drive it out of town for any distance.=C2=A0 The Tiger?s fir=
st major outing was at the Sandhills Motoring Festival held in Pinehurst NC=
 last month in May ? you can get a glimpse of the cars at:=C2=A0 https://ww=
w.thepilot.com/gallery/concours-in-the-village/collection_d49fdacc-8091-11e=
9-86df-2b8021a08259.html  You might have to copy and paste link into your b=
rowser.

Thank you all for putting up with all my inane questions and comments over =
the years.=C2=A0 I am sure there will be more.

Regards

Joel Martin

---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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------------------------------

End of Tigers Digest, Vol 11, Issue 181
***************************************
 =20
------=_Part_3312234_837960931.1560889463174
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp51f5a632yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px=
;"><div></div>
        <div>Re: Tiger overheating.</div><div><br></div><div>You state that=
 your fan is one inch from the radiator and that you are not using a fan sh=
roud.. IMO without a shroud and that much space between fan and radiator, t=
he air is not being pulled through the radiator at idle. Its just churning =
engine compartment air. All cars use shrouds to pull air through the whole =
radiator. Pusher fans in front of radiators only cool the area directly in =
front of the fan, the bigger the better, but they do help.&nbsp; Put a prop=
per shroud in place and you may have solved your problem.</div><div>Good lu=
ck,</div><div><br></div><div>Trevor Nemeth</div><div><br></div>
       =20
        <div id=3D"ydp51f5a632yahoo_quoted_1015052877" class=3D"ydp51f5a632=
yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Tuesday, June 18, 2019, 11:01:26 AM PDT, tigers-requ=
[email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div dir=3D"ltr">Send Tigers mailing list submissions =
to<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:tigers@au=
tox.team.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">To subscribe or unsubs=
cribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers" rel=3D"nofo=
llow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers</a><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr">or, via email, send a message with subject or body=
 'help' to<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:t=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">tigers-req=
[email-masked]</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
">You can reach the person managing the list at<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nof=
ollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">When replying, please edit your Subject=
 line so it is more specific<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">than "Re: Contents o=
f Tigers digest..."<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Today's Topics:<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;  1. Re:&nbsp; Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approac=
h (Tom Witt)<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr">---------------------------------------------------------=
-------------<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message:=
 1<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 10:40:05 -0700<br></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr">From: "Tom Witt" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:atwittsend@verizon=
.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr">To: "Tiger List Serve" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tigers@=
autox.team.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a=
>&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Re: [Tigers]&nbsp; Tiger Overheati=
ng ? Shotgun Approach<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message-ID: &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:50A67CB0E5D94FFFB40A0D27374F46EE@user1PC" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D=
"_blank">50A67CB0E5D94FFFB40A0D27374F46EE@user1PC</a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"<br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I know this has been a long running problem =
for you. And as time moves on I can?t remember what has or hasn?t been said=
. Aside from the obvious (clogged radiator/engine, blades eroded off water =
pumps, air pockets etc.) there have been other causes of high temperature r=
eadings:<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">1. There migh=
t not actually be a problem with the cooling. Rather the voltage regulator =
for the temp gauge may be defective and causing a higher than actual readin=
g.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">2. The lower radiat=
or hose collapses. This typically happens as the rpm?s increase (so not an =
?at idle? issue) the lower hose sucks in and pinches flow. A stainless stee=
l spring set internal to the hose (many source this from a lawn sprinkler) =
prevents the collapse.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>The blocking plates and other means of preventing hot air recirculation ar=
e helpful.&nbsp; I?ve seen a flat sheet of aluminum between the lower secti=
on of the grill area and the radiator.&nbsp; My understanding of the air da=
m is that it is more effective at speed. I was told it generates a negative=
 air pressure to draw air from the engine compartment.&nbsp; I truly believ=
e a shroud would be very helpful. Otherwise to some extent you are simply c=
hurning hot air already under the hood. A well fitting shroud would ensure =
air is drawn externally. As noted others have found an electric pusher fan =
helpful.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">In this day a=
nd age of the GoPro camera I think it would be interesting to to do the old=
 school yarn application and observe what is actually going on under the ho=
od, under the car, and the external areas such as the horn openings and pro=
posed air dam areas etc. A few well placed homemade man-o-meters might be i=
nformative too.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Then t=
here are the arguments as to whether a high flow water pump pulls hot coola=
nt out of the engine faster (good) or pushes it too fast through the radiat=
or (bad). Is coolant good because it raises the boiling point, or bad becau=
se it is less efficient than straight water.&nbsp; There are the people wit=
h a stock cooling system (and sometimes performance enhancements to the eng=
ine) that claim they never have a heat issue in a hot climate and those in =
cooler climates that have stock engines and every cooling enhancement known=
 to Tigerdom and they constantly have issues.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr">In the end I hope you are successful and enjoy a th=
e summer driving your now running cool Tiger.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr">From: Joel Martin via Tigers <br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:04 AM<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">To: Tig=
er List Serve <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Overheatin=
g ? Shotgun Approach<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">A=
fter about a year of struggling with overheating at idle with the hood down=
, I took drastic steps.&nbsp; I have been driving the car during the last y=
ear only on back roads with no chance of traffic lights. <br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; 1.. P=
urchased and installed SS gloss black radiator overflow tank. <br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; 2.. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from =
Alexander Washick <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" tar=
get=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> which are powder coated. <br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; 3.. Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulle=
y from Robert Straghan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"no=
follow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; scuffed, primed and p=
ainted semi gloss black <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; 4.. Purchased and=
 installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dlu=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a=
>&gt; scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. <br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">&nbsp; 5.. Purchased and installed new taller Tiger aluminum cross flow=
 side tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp=
; 6.. Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted F=
ord dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line =
up. <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; 7.. Modified the mechanical fan space=
r so that front of fan is 1? from radiator. <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbs=
p; 8.. Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. <br></div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; 9.. Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator a=
nd overflow to radiator hoses. <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; 10.. New t=
op radiator hose from local source as SS hose would not fit taller radiator=
. <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; 11.. New fan belt. <br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">&nbsp; 12.. Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud wh=
ich would not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting b=
racket to fit my taller radiator.&nbsp; Stripped, primed and painted used s=
hroud semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp=
; 13.. Installed 160 degree thermostat.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">So at thi=
s point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom.&nbsp; Other c=
hanges could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom o=
f radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this s=
ummer.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Results as foll=
ows:<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Cold start with 8=
6 degree ambient outside temperature ? at idle with hood closed, car in sun=
.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">5 Minutes engine tem=
perature 174 degrees.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
9 Minutes engine temperature 180 degrees.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr">12 Minutes engine temperature 190 degrees.<br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">14 Minutes engine temperature 195 =
degrees.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">16 Minutes en=
gine temperature 200 degrees.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Run the motor at 1500 rpm?s for 1minute temperature drops to 196 d=
egrees.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Run the motor =
at 2000 rpm?s for another 1minute temperature drops to 194 degrees.<br></di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Turn motor off and in a total=
 of 27 minutes from startup - heat soak is 208 degrees.<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">All this is recorded from temporary mec=
hanical temperature gauge located under dash.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The car temperature at any speed is at 174 degrees =
regardless of the outside ambient temperature from 50?s to mid 90?s.<br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Whew, maybe at last can enjo=
y car with a couple of things still outstanding to be able to drive it out =
of town for any distance.&nbsp; The Tiger?s first major outing was at the S=
andhills Motoring Festival held in Pinehurst NC last month in May ? you can=
 get a glimpse of the cars at:&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.thepilot.com/ga=
llery/concours-in-the-village/collection_d49fdacc-8091-11e9-86df-2b8021a082=
59.html " rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">https://www.thepilot.com/galle=
ry/concours-in-the-village/collection_d49fdacc-8091-11e9-86df-2b8021a08259.=
html </a> You might have to copy and paste link into your browser.<br></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Thank you all for putting up w=
ith all my inane questions and comments over the years.&nbsp; I am sure the=
re will be more.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr">Regards<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Joel Martin<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">-------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">_______________________________________________<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team=
.net/donate.html" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/do=
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div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">------------------------------<b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Digest Footer<=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">______________________=
_________________________<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Tigers mailing list<br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofo=
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From: Dave Munroe via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 16:14:29 -0300

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