Subject: Re: [Tigers] More Frame questions - with PDF for your viewing

From: Tom Witt via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 13:19:21 -0700

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Dan,
This is a Google search of =E2=80=9CSunbeam Tiger Engine =
Compartment.=E2=80=9D In the first three rows are images (a green Tiger =
in particular among others) and the pictures will give you some idea of =
what it looks like.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=3Den&biw=3D1920&bih=3D943&site=3Dimghp&t=
bm=3Disch&sa=3D1&q=3Dsunbeam+tiger+engine+compartment&oq=3Dsunbeam+tiger+=
engine+compartment&gs_l=3Dimg.12..0.79042.81720.0.83000.11.1.0.10.10.0.69=
.69.1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.11.85.j_Vd3BzZfH4

This is also a post on the CAT forum that might be helpful (scroll =
down).  http://www.catmbr.org/VB_forum/showthread.php?t=3D1947&page=3D3

From: daniel doornbos via Tigers=20
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 10:27 AM
To: [email-masked]=20
Subject: [Tigers] More Frame questions - with PDF for your viewing

All,  I've taken some better pictures (still not great but hope they =
will do) and put it together in a PPT then to PDF format.  If anyone =
with detailed experience would care to review and provide feedback on =
what I suspect is damage vs. what might actually be stock factory =
construction it would be appreciated.  Also note in last e-mail I called =
out the drivers side but I mixed with the car sitting on it's side.  The =
suspect damage is on the passenger side (or top of the car with it on =
it's side).

I'm trying to get a better opinion because;

  a.. I don't actually know what this should look like

    a..   Is NOTHING wrong?  The crossmember did drop right out of the =
car without any issues.=20
    b..   The passenger wheel does look OK centered in the fender (but =
I've never seen the car at proper ride height with a drive train in it.
  b.. Should passenger/drive be symmetrical? =20

  c.. Do I have it wrong and what I think is a problem in the passenger =
but could the drivers side be wrong?

Also on the last page is a picture of the lower radiator surround.  At =
the passenger side it's only an 1" high and drivers side its almost 3" =
(estimates).  Is this stock?  I don't see an obvious repair or bend here =
but seems very strange that it wouldn't be same height all the way =
across. =20

thanks again

dan

PS.  Hopeing the Autox mail manger correctly strips off the attachment =
and provides a link to it.  Please let me know if it doesn't and I'll =
find a public sharing source.  =20

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{margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} --></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY dir=3Dltr>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>Dan,</DIV>
<DIV>This is a Google search of =E2=80=9CSunbeam Tiger Engine =
Compartment.=E2=80=9D In the first=20
three rows are images (a green Tiger in particular among others) and the =

pictures will give you some idea of what it looks like.</DIV>
<DIV><A=20
title=3Dhttps://www.google.com/search?hl=3Den&amp;biw=3D1920&amp;bih=3D94=
3&amp;site=3Dimghp&amp;tbm=3Disch&amp;sa=3D1&amp;q=3Dsunbeam+tiger+engine=
+compartment&amp;oq=3Dsunbeam+tiger+engine+compartment&amp;gs_l=3Dimg.12.=
.0.79042.81720.0.83000.11.1.0.10.10.0.69.69.1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.1=
1.85.j_Vd3BzZfH4=20
href=3D"https://www.google.com/search?hl=3Den&amp;biw=3D1920&amp;bih=3D94=
3&amp;site=3Dimghp&amp;tbm=3Disch&amp;sa=3D1&amp;q=3Dsunbeam+tiger+engine=
+compartment&amp;oq=3Dsunbeam+tiger+engine+compartment&amp;gs_l=3Dimg.12.=
.0.79042.81720.0.83000.11.1.0.10.10.0.69.69.1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.1=
1.85.j_Vd3BzZfH4">https://www.google.com/search?hl=3Den&amp;biw=3D1920&am=
p;bih=3D943&amp;site=3Dimghp&amp;tbm=3Disch&amp;sa=3D1&amp;q=3Dsunbeam+ti=
ger+engine+compartment&amp;oq=3Dsunbeam+tiger+engine+compartment&amp;gs_l=
=3Dimg.12..0.79042.81720.0.83000.11.1.0.10.10.0.69.69.1.1.0....0...1c.1.6=
4.img..0.11.85.j_Vd3BzZfH4</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>This is also a post on the CAT forum that might be helpful (scroll=20
down).&nbsp; <A=20
title=3Dhttp://www.catmbr.org/VB_forum/showthread.php?t=3D1947&amp;page=3D=
3=20
href=3D"http://www.catmbr.org/VB_forum/showthread.php?t=3D1947&amp;page=3D=
3">http://www.catmbr.org/VB_forum/showthread.php?t=3D1947&amp;page=3D3</A=
></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">daniel doornbos via Tigers</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 01, 2016 10:27 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [Tigers] More Frame questions - with PDF for your=20
viewing</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV id=3Ddivtagdefaultwrapper=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
calibri,arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: #000000; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff">
<P>All,&nbsp; I've taken some better pictures (still not great but hope =
they=20
will do) and put it together in a PPT then to PDF format.&nbsp; If =
anyone with=20
detailed experience would care to review and provide feedback on what I =
suspect=20
is damage vs. what might actually be stock factory construction it would =
be=20
appreciated.&nbsp; Also note in last e-mail I called out the drivers =
side but I=20
mixed with the car sitting on it's side.&nbsp; The suspect damage is on =
the=20
passenger side (or top of the car with it on it's side).</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>I'm trying to get a better opinion because;</P>
<UL>
  <LI><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I don't actually know what this =
should look=20
  like</SPAN><BR>
  <UL>
    <LI><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp; </SPAN>Is NOTHING =
wrong?&nbsp; The=20
    crossmember did drop right out of the car without any issues.=20
    <LI><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp; The passenger wheel does =
look OK=20
    centered in the fender (but I've never seen the car at proper ride =
height=20
    with a drive train</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> in=20
it.</SPAN></LI></UL>
  <LI><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Should passenger/drive be =
symmetrical?&nbsp;=20
  </SPAN><BR>
  <LI><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Do I have it wrong and what I =
think is a=20
  problem in the passenger but could the drivers side be=20
wrong?</SPAN><BR></LI></UL>
<P><SPAN=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, arial, helvetica, =
sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", notocoloremoji, =
"Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji", emojisymbols'></SPAN></P>
<P>Also on the last page is a picture of the lower radiator =
surround.&nbsp; At=20
the passenger side it's only an 1" high and drivers side its almost 3"=20
(estimates).&nbsp; Is this stock?&nbsp; I don't see an obvious repair or =
bend=20
here but seems very strange that it wouldn't be same height all the way=20
across.&nbsp; </P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>thanks again</P>
<P>dan</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>PS.&nbsp; Hopeing the Autox mail manger correctly strips off the =
attachment=20
and provides a link to it.&nbsp; Please let me know if it doesn't and =
I'll find=20
a public sharing source.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]

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---

From: Gary Winblad via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 15:42:35 -0700

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Hi Dan,
The radiator core support is NORMAL..  it should be slanted up at the 
top also.
Now I see what you are worried about (passenger frame rail) and I think 
you are
probably right, it is bent.  I just went out and looked at mine, its on 
my lift but the
car is fully assembled and with headers so it is hard to really see..   
But both sides
look totally symetrical as far as I can see.  If yours got hit hard in 
the passenger
side rail, I could see how it could kink right at the bend behind the 
crossmember
so it would get more "vertical" like you point out.  Try measuring from 
rear spring
mount forward to crossmember mount hole on each side, the car may be 
"shorter"
on the passenger side...?
Paul Reisentz has a lot of customer cars fixed.  He tells me that once 
they are on
the frame machine, it only usually only takes an hour to fix things like 
that... Now IS
the time to get it fixed!  I do now think I remember your car had extra 
holes put in
the frame extensions behind the bumper/jack mounts.   That would be the 
place to
pull it back out I would think.  Maybe they actually correctly bent it 
back but just
didn't bother to put the bends in just the right places?  I am actually 
interested in how
yours turns out because my second Tiger was hit in the drivers side (has 
new fender,
grill and valence) and I think I may have a similar type residual damage!
In your first pictures, it looked like some damage where the driver side 
frame rail
connects with the inner fender.. looked like it may actually be broken 
apart and there
is daylight showing under the horn mount, where it shouldn't be!  I 
would think that
the inner fender provides a lot of the front strength and should be in 
good condition.
I remembered your car had some huge ugly flares but they don't look 
nearly as bad
(my opinion only) as I remembered.  Your car looks so much better than 
the rusty ones
that Paul is restoring these days!
Gary

On 9/1/2016 10:27 AM, daniel doornbos via Tigers wrote:
>
> All,  I've taken some better pictures (still not great but hope they 
> will do) and put it together in a PPT then to PDF format.  If anyone 
> with detailed experience would care to review and provide feedback on 
> what I suspect is damage vs. what might actually be stock factory 
> construction it would be appreciated.  Also note in last e-mail I 
> called out the drivers side but I mixed with the car sitting on it's 
> side.  The suspect damage is on the passenger side (or top of the car 
> with it on it's side).
>
>
>   * I don't actually know what this should look like
>       o Is NOTHING wrong?  The crossmember did drop right out of the
>         car without any issues.
>       o   The passenger wheel does look OK centered in the fender (but
>   * Should passenger/drive be symmetrical?
>   * Do I have it wrong and what I think is a problem in the passenger
> Also on the last page is a picture of the lower radiator surround.  At 
> the passenger side it's only an 1" high and drivers side its almost 3" 
> (estimates).  Is this stock?  I don't see an obvious repair or bend 
> here but seems very strange that it wouldn't be same height all the 
> way across.
>
>
> thanks again
>
> dan
>
>
> PS.  Hopeing the Autox mail manger correctly strips off the attachment 
> and provides a link to it.  Please let me know if it doesn't and I'll 
> find a public sharing source.
>
>
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
>
>

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    Hi Dan,<br>
    The radiator core support is NORMAL..  it should be slanted up at
    the top also.<br>
    Now I see what you are worried about (passenger frame rail) and I
    think you are<br>
    probably right, it is bent.  I just went out and looked at mine, its
    on my lift but the<br>
    car is fully assembled and with headers so it is hard to really
    see..   But both sides<br>
    look totally symetrical as far as I can see.  If yours got hit hard
    in the passenger<br>
    side rail, I could see how it could kink right at the bend behind
    the crossmember<br>
    so it would get more "vertical" like you point out.  Try measuring
    from rear spring<br>
    mount forward to crossmember mount hole on each side, the car may be
    "shorter"<br>
    on the passenger side...?<br>
    Paul Reisentz has a lot of customer cars fixed.  He tells me that
    once they are on<br>
    the frame machine, it only usually only takes an hour to fix things
    like that... Now IS<br>
    the time to get it fixed!  I do now think I remember your car had
    extra holes put in<br>
    the frame extensions behind the bumper/jack mounts.   That would be
    the place to<br>
    pull it back out I would think.  Maybe they actually correctly bent
    it back but just<br>
    didn't bother to put the bends in just the right places?  I am
    actually interested in how<br>
    yours turns out because my second Tiger was hit in the drivers side
    (has new fender,<br>
    grill and valence) and I think I may have a similar type residual
    damage!<br>
    In your first pictures, it looked like some damage where the driver
    side frame rail<br>
    connects with the inner fender.. looked like it may actually be
    broken apart and there<br>
    is daylight showing under the horn mount, where it shouldn't be!  I
    would think that<br>
    the inner fender provides a lot of the front strength and should be
    in good condition.<br>
    I remembered your car had some huge ugly flares but they don't look
    nearly as bad<br>
    (my opinion only) as I remembered.  Your car looks so much better
    than the rusty ones<br>
    that Paul is restoring these days!<br>
    Gary<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/1/2016 10:27 AM, daniel doornbos
      via Tigers wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:[email-masked]"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=windows-1252">
      <style type="text/css" style="display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} --></style>
      <div id="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#FFFFFF;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">
        <p>All,  I've taken some better pictures (still not great but
          hope they will do) and put it together in a PPT then to PDF
          format.  If anyone with detailed experience would care to
          review and provide feedback on what I suspect is damage vs.
          what might actually be stock factory construction it would be
          appreciated.  Also note in last e-mail I called out the
          drivers side but I mixed with the car sitting on it's side.
           The suspect damage is on the passenger side (or top of the
          car with it on it's side).</p>
        <p><br>
        </p>
        <p>I'm trying to get a better opinion because;</p>
        <ul>
          <li><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I don't actually know what
              this should look like</span><br>
            <ul>
              <li><span style="font-size: 12pt;">  </span>Is NOTHING
                wrong?  The crossmember did drop right out of the car
                without any issues.</li>
              <li><span style="font-size: 12pt;">  The passenger wheel
                  does look OK centered in the fender (but I've never
                  seen the car at proper ride height with a drive train</span><span
                  style="font-size: 12pt;"> in it.</span></li>
            </ul>
          </li>
          <li><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Should passenger/drive be
              symmetrical?  </span><br>
          </li>
          <li><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Do I have it wrong and what
              I think is a problem in the passenger but could the
              drivers side be wrong?</span><br>
          </li>
        </ul>
        <p><span style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica,
            sans-serif, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI
            Emoji&quot;, NotoColorEmoji, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;,
            &quot;Android Emoji&quot;, EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;"></span></p>
        <p>Also on the last page is a picture of the lower radiator
          surround.  At the passenger side it's only an 1" high and
          drivers side its almost 3" (estimates).  Is this stock?  I
          don't see an obvious repair or bend here but seems very
          strange that it wouldn't be same height all the way across.  </p>
        <p><br>
        </p>
        <p>thanks again</p>
        <p>dan</p>
        <p><br>
        </p>
        <p>PS.  Hopeing the Autox mail manger correctly strips off the
          attachment and provides a link to it.  Please let me know if
          it doesn't and I'll find a public sharing source.   </p>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>

Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a>
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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[email-masked]

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From: Tom Witt via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 07:56:07 -0700

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Not to start a =E2=80=9CTiger Sledgehammer Story 2.0=E2=80=9D but is it =
possible someone went bashing about to make headers fit?  From what I =
saw in the pictures there is no obvious point in the underside of the =
fenders to indicate the front clip was ever replaced. Yet to have gotten =
the frame/inner fenders that damaged likely would have required =
replacing the external sheet metal.  My car did not show that type of =
frame/inner fender damage and yet the front clip =E2=80=9Cbowed=E2=80=9D =
at the peak of the wheel opening from some form of (prior) accident =
requiring replacement. Just throwing a possibility out there in the hope =
that regardless of how it looks, the actual alignment may not be so bad. =
 Measuring between common location mounting points diagonally should =
give you an idea. That said, how accurately were these cars built back =
then???

thanks again

dan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
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[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]

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	charset="utf-8"
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<STYLE style=3D"DISPLAY: none" type=3Dtext/css><!-- P =
{margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} --></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY dir=3Dltr>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>Not to start a =E2=80=9CTiger Sledgehammer Story 2.0=E2=80=9D but =
is it possible someone=20
went bashing about to make headers fit?&nbsp; From what I saw in the =
pictures=20
there is no obvious point in the underside of the fenders to indicate =
the front=20
clip was ever replaced. Yet to have gotten the frame/inner fenders that =
damaged=20
likely would have required replacing the external sheet metal.&nbsp; My =
car did=20
not show that type of frame/inner fender damage and yet the front clip =
=E2=80=9Cbowed=E2=80=9D=20
at the peak of the wheel opening from some form of (prior) accident =
requiring=20
replacement. Just throwing a possibility out there in the hope that =
regardless=20
of how it looks, the actual alignment may not be so bad.&nbsp; Measuring =
between=20
common location mounting points diagonally should give you an idea. That =
said,=20
how accurately were these cars built back then???</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">daniel doornbos via Tigers</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 01, 2016 10:27 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [Tigers] More Frame questions - with PDF for your=20
viewing</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV id=3Ddivtagdefaultwrapper=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
calibri,arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: #000000; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff">
<P>All,&nbsp; I've taken some better pictures (still not great but hope =
they=20
will do) and put it together in a PPT then to PDF format.&nbsp; If =
anyone with=20
detailed experience would care to review and provide feedback on what I =
suspect=20
is damage vs. what might actually be stock factory construction it would =
be=20
appreciated.&nbsp; Also note in last e-mail I called out the drivers =
side but I=20
mixed with the car sitting on it's side.&nbsp; The suspect damage is on =
the=20
passenger side (or top of the car with it on it's side).</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>I'm trying to get a better opinion because;</P>
<UL>
  <LI><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I don't actually know what this =
should look=20
  like</SPAN><BR>
  <UL>
    <LI><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp; </SPAN>Is NOTHING =
wrong?&nbsp; The=20
    crossmember did drop right out of the car without any issues.=20
    <LI><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp; The passenger wheel does =
look OK=20
    centered in the fender (but I've never seen the car at proper ride =
height=20
    with a drive train</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> in=20
it.</SPAN></LI></UL>
  <LI><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Should passenger/drive be =
symmetrical?&nbsp;=20
  </SPAN><BR>
  <LI><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Do I have it wrong and what I =
think is a=20
  problem in the passenger but could the drivers side be=20
wrong?</SPAN><BR></LI></UL>
<P><SPAN=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, arial, helvetica, =
sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", notocoloremoji, =
"Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji", emojisymbols'></SPAN></P>
<P>Also on the last page is a picture of the lower radiator =
surround.&nbsp; At=20
the passenger side it's only an 1" high and drivers side its almost 3"=20
(estimates).&nbsp; Is this stock?&nbsp; I don't see an obvious repair or =
bend=20
here but seems very strange that it wouldn't be same height all the way=20
across.&nbsp; </P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>thanks again</P>
<P>dan</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>PS.&nbsp; Hopeing the Autox mail manger correctly strips off the =
attachment=20
and provides a link to it.&nbsp; Please let me know if it doesn't and =
I'll find=20
a public sharing source.&nbsp;&nbsp; </P></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
_______________________________________________<BR><BR>[email-masked].=
net<BR><BR>Donate:=20
http://www.team.net/forums<BR>Unsubscribe:=20
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]<BR><B=
R><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Jeffery Randall via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 12:50:20 -0400

--===============4285711831763082396==

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The passenger side out photo tells the story, yes it's bent. Your
body/frame guy should be able to get it back where it needs to be, after
pulling he may open the frame rail to make some applied hammerology
adjustments then stich it closed.

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Tom Witt via Tigers <[email-masked]=
wrote:

> Not to start a =E2=80=9CTiger Sledgehammer Story 2.0=E2=80=9D but is it p=
ossible someone
> went bashing about to make headers fit?  From what I saw in the pictures
> there is no obvious point in the underside of the fenders to indicate the
> front clip was ever replaced. Yet to have gotten the frame/inner fenders
> that damaged likely would have required replacing the external sheet
> metal.  My car did not show that type of frame/inner fender damage and ye=
t
> the front clip =E2=80=9Cbowed=E2=80=9D at the peak of the wheel opening f=
rom some form of
> (prior) accident requiring replacement. Just throwing a possibility out
> there in the hope that regardless of how it looks, the actual alignment m=
ay
> not be so bad.  Measuring between common location mounting points
> diagonally should give you an idea. That said, how accurately were these
> cars built back then???
>
> *From:* daniel doornbos via Tigers <[email-masked]>
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 01, 2016 10:27 AM
> *To:* [email-masked]
> *Subject:* [Tigers] More Frame questions - with PDF for your viewing
>
>
> All,  I've taken some better pictures (still not great but hope they will
> do) and put it together in a PPT then to PDF format.  If anyone with
> detailed experience would care to review and provide feedback on what I
> suspect is damage vs. what might actually be stock factory construction i=
t
> would be appreciated.  Also note in last e-mail I called out the drivers
> side but I mixed with the car sitting on it's side.  The suspect damage i=
s
> on the passenger side (or top of the car with it on it's side).
>
>
>
>    - I don't actually know what this should look like
>    -   Is NOTHING wrong?  The crossmember did drop right out of the car
>       without any issues.
>       -   The passenger wheel does look OK centered in the fender (but
>    - Should passenger/drive be symmetrical?
>    - Do I have it wrong and what I think is a problem in the passenger
> Also on the last page is a picture of the lower radiator surround.  At th=
e
> passenger side it's only an 1" high and drivers side its almost 3"
> (estimates).  Is this stock?  I don't see an obvious repair or bend here
> but seems very strange that it wouldn't be same height all the way across=
.
>
>
>
> thanks again
>
> dan
>
>
>
> PS.  Hopeing the Autox mail manger correctly strips off the attachment an=
d
> provides a link to it.  Please let me know if it doesn't and I'll find a
> public sharing source.
>
> ------------------------------
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend@
> verizon.net
>
>
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jefferyrandall@
> gmail.com
>
>
>
>

--001a1142cc8643b03f053b8920e8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">The passenger side out photo tells the story, yes it&#39;s=
 bent. Your body/frame guy should be able to get it back where it needs to =
be, after pulling he may open the frame rail to make some applied hammerolo=
gy adjustments then stich it closed.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Tom Witt via Tige=
rs <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;;font-size:12=
pt">
<div>Not to start a =E2=80=9CTiger Sledgehammer Story 2.0=E2=80=9D but is i=
t possible someone=20
went bashing about to make headers fit?=C2=A0 From what I saw in the pictur=
es=20
there is no obvious point in the underside of the fenders to indicate the f=
ront=20
clip was ever replaced. Yet to have gotten the frame/inner fenders that dam=
aged=20
likely would have required replacing the external sheet metal.=C2=A0 My car=
 did=20
not show that type of frame/inner fender damage and yet the front clip =E2=
=80=9Cbowed=E2=80=9D=20
at the peak of the wheel opening from some form of (prior) accident requiri=
ng=20
replacement. Just throwing a possibility out there in the hope that regardl=
ess=20
of how it looks, the actual alignment may not be so bad.=C2=A0 Measuring be=
tween=20
common location mounting points diagonally should give you an idea. That sa=
id,=20
how accurately were these cars built back then???</div><span>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;;font-size:sm=
all;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none;display:inlin=
e">
<div style=3D"font:10pt/normal tahoma;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:no=
rmal">
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"background:rgb(245,245,245)">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:tigers@=
autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">daniel doornbos via Tigers</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 01, 2016 10:27 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:tigers@au=
tox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> [Tigers] More Frame questions - with PDF for your=20
viewing</div></div></div>
<div>=C2=A0</div></div>
</span><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;;font-=
size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none;displa=
y:inline">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:calibri,arial,helvetica,sans-ser=
if;font-size:12pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<p>All,=C2=A0 I&#39;ve taken some better pictures (still not great but hope=
 they=20
will do) and put it together in a PPT then to PDF format.=C2=A0 If anyone w=
ith=20
detailed experience would care to review and provide feedback on what I sus=
pect=20
is damage vs. what might actually be stock factory construction it would be=
=20
appreciated.=C2=A0 Also note in last e-mail I called out the drivers side b=
ut I=20
mixed with the car sitting on it&#39;s side.=C2=A0 The suspect damage is on=
 the=20
passenger side (or top of the car with it on it&#39;s side).</p><div><div c=
lass=3D"h5">
<p>=C2=A0</p>
<p>I&#39;m trying to get a better opinion because;</p>
<ul>
  <li><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">I don&#39;t actually know what this sh=
ould look=20
  like</span><br>
  <ul>
    <li><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">=C2=A0 </span>Is NOTHING wrong?=C2=
=A0 The=20
    crossmember did drop right out of the car without any issues.=20
    <li><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">=C2=A0 The passenger wheel does look=
 OK=20
    centered in the fender (but I&#39;ve never seen the car at proper ride =
height=20
    with a drive train</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"> in=20
it.</span></li></li></ul>
  <li><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">Should passenger/drive be symmetrical?=
=C2=A0=20
  </span><br>
  <li><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">Do I have it wrong and what I think is=
 a=20
  problem in the passenger but could the drivers side be=20
wrong?</span><br></li></li></li></ul>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:calibri,arial,helvetica,sans-serif,&quot;Appl=
e Color Emoji&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,notocoloremoji,&quot;Segoe U=
I Symbol&quot;,&quot;Android Emoji&quot;,emojisymbols;font-size:16px"></spa=
n></p>
<p>Also on the last page is a picture of the lower radiator surround.=C2=A0=
 At=20
the passenger side it&#39;s only an 1&quot; high and drivers side its almos=
t 3&quot;=20
(estimates).=C2=A0 Is this stock?=C2=A0 I don&#39;t see an obvious repair o=
r bend=20
here but seems very strange that it wouldn&#39;t be same height all the way=
=20
across.=C2=A0 </p>
<p>=C2=A0</p>
<p>thanks again</p>
<p>dan</p>
<p>=C2=A0</p>
<p>PS.=C2=A0 Hopeing the Autox mail manger correctly strips off the attachm=
ent=20
and provides a link to it.=C2=A0 Please let me know if it doesn&#39;t and I=
&#39;ll find=20
a public sharing source.=C2=A0=C2=A0 </p></div></div></div>
<p>
<hr><span>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br><br><a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b=
r>Donate:=20
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am.net/donate.<wbr>html</a><br>Archive:=20
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et/archive</a><br>Forums:=20
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t/forums</a><br></span>Unsubscribe:=20
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net" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/<wbr>options/tigers/at=
wittsend@<wbr>verizon.net</a><br><br><br><p></p></p></div></div></div></div=
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
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Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"n=
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Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nor=
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<br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Ron Fraser via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 13:09:47 -0400

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Tom=20

You ask a great question; how accurately were these cars built back =
then???

=20

Today=E2=80=99s vehicles have a tolerance of + or- 3mm =3D + or =
=E2=80=93 1/8=E2=80=9D tolerance.

=20

Since many of the Sunbeam Tiger history books imply there was always =
careful inspection of all aspect of the Tiger build and since Rootes =
controlled the assembly of the body frame unit; I=E2=80=99m going to say =
the tolerance was probably similar.   Anything larger then that would =
leave you with a car that could be difficult to assemble or adjust to =
manufactures specifications.

=20

That=E2=80=99s how I see it.

Ron Fraser

=20

From: Tigers [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Tom =
Witt via Tigers
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2016 10:56 AM
To: daniel doornbos <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Tigers] More Frame questions - with PDF for your viewing

=20

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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Tom =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>You ask a =
great question; </span><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>how accurately =
were these cars built back then???</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Today=E2=80=99=
s vehicles have a tolerance of + or- 3mm =3D + or =E2=80=93 1/8=E2=80=9D =
tolerance.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Since many =
of the Sunbeam Tiger history books imply there was always careful =
inspection of all aspect of the Tiger build and since Rootes controlled =
the assembly of the body frame unit; I=E2=80=99m going to say the =
tolerance was probably similar.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Anything larger then that =
would leave you with a car that could be difficult to assemble or adjust =
to manufactures specifications.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>That=E2=80=99=
s how I see it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Ron =
Fraser<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> =
Tigers [mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tom =
Witt via Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 02, 2016 10:56 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> daniel doornbos &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] More Frame =
questions - with PDF for your =
viewing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Not to start a =
=E2=80=9CTiger Sledgehammer Story 2.0=E2=80=9D but is it possible =
someone went bashing about to make headers fit?&nbsp; From what I saw in =
the pictures there is no obvious point in the underside of the fenders =
to indicate the front clip was ever replaced. Yet to have gotten the =
frame/inner fenders that damaged likely would have required replacing =
the external sheet metal.&nbsp; My car did not show that type of =
frame/inner fender damage and yet the front clip =E2=80=9Cbowed=E2=80=9D =
at the peak of the wheel opening from some form of (prior) accident =
requiring replacement. Just throwing a possibility out there in the hope =
that regardless of how it looks, the actual alignment may not be so =
bad.&nbsp; Measuring between common location mounting points diagonally =
should give you an idea. That said, how accurately were these cars built =
back then???<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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From: daniel doornbos via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 19:15:10 +0000

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Thanks again to all with the replies.  I'm out of town this weekend but wil=
l look at it early next week.  A quick inspection last night it does look l=
ike the frame is OK beyond the kink in the rail.  No ripple's or other indi=
cation further back to the body.  In the PDF link slide 5 showed the best p=
icture I have.  Their is a straight seam and reweld of the inner fender for=
ward starting at the front cross member bolt (where my channel iron stand i=
s bolted to).  The part that is welded to the frame is really poor work.

I'll measure the original cross member, I have a Mike H Mustang II cross me=
mber to go into the car so I can compare those pieces.  Note the hole sizes=
 in the original cross member by my estimation would easily allow for 1/4" =
of alignment just by bolt size to hole size.

I'll wait till I give it to the frame guy to determine if straighten or rep=
lace is the right call.

dan

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<p><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">Thanks again to all with the replies. &=
nbsp;I'm out of town this weekend but will look at it early next week. &nbs=
p;A quick inspection last night it does look like the frame is OK beyond th=
e kink in the rail. &nbsp;No ripple's or other indication
 further back to the body. &nbsp;In the PDF link slide 5 showed the best pi=
cture I have. &nbsp;Their is a&nbsp;</span>straight<span style=3D"font-size=
: 12pt;">&nbsp;seam and reweld&nbsp;of the inner fender forward starting at=
 the front cross member bolt (where my channel iron stand is
 bolted to). &nbsp;The part that is welded to the frame is really poor work=
.</span><br>
</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">I'll measure the original cross member,=
 I have a Mike H Mustang II cross&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 12p=
t;">member to go into the car so I can compare those pieces. &nbsp;Note the=
 hole sizes in the original&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">cr=
oss
 member by my estimation&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">would=
&nbsp;</span>easily<span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">&nbsp;</span><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 12pt;">allow for 1/4&quot; of alignment just by bolt size t=
o hole size.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">I'll wait till I give it to the frame g=
uy to determine if straighten or replace is the right call.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">dan</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></p>
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[email-masked]

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