Subject: [Tigers] FW: Original Tiger Engine Study

From: Ron Fraser via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2016 23:50:42 -0400

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Mayf

                I don't know why but my server always gives me a Mail
Delivery error for you.

I've forward this to the Tigers List so you're sure to receive my reply

Ron Fraser

From: Ron Fraser [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 11:43 PM
To: 'Larry Mayfield' <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Original Tiger Engine Study

Mayf

                The way I understand it Ford produced and applied the decals
on each valve cover; I believe this was Ford's accounting system for each
engine.

The engine group numbers vary in letters; this is an old alpha to numeric
system that Norm Miller discovered at Ford.   He lists it on his web site,
Bits and Pieces pg. 4.

Tiger Engine groups start with T, E, G, L, A, K, S, F, B and each represents
a different number and covers engine groups from T15KL = 8/15/63 to 

A22KK = 4/22/66.  I believe the engine group numbers represents a start
build paperwork date for the Cleveland Foundry.

My hope is to understand what kind of correlation there is between the
engine group numbers and the assembly date codes stamped into each engine
within each engine group.

                To me everything on the Sunbeam or Rootes LTD valve cover
sticker screams Ford.   Rootes would have no reason to make and apply a
decal that states Ford especially with Chrysler buying shares in the Rootes
Group  but Ford would have every reason in the world to advertise Made in
the USA by Ford Motor Company. 

Ron

From: Larry Mayfield [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 8:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Original Tiger Engine Study

Ron, rereading some of my emails. Have a question regards the engine codes
like the one below.  Isn't that metal decal added by Sunbeam and not Ford?
Do they all start with a B? Like our car vin numbers.  Seems to me that this
would be a way for Rootes to tie engines to cars rather than to Ford trying
to do that.  Or is it that I am a day late and a dollar short in knowing
what is going on, lol. That is a strong possibility! My guess is that when
engines rolled into Rootes the production folk immediately slapped the decal
on the valve cover to indicate the cars in production that week or month.  

Anyway, interesting discussion regards some of these things. 

Mayf

_________________________
drmayf
Worlds Fastest Sunbeam, period.
204.913 mph flying mile
210.779 mph exit (not top)  speed

From: Tigers [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
via Tigers
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 9:08 AM
Subject: [Tigers] Original Tiger Engine Study

The mystery of the B19KC engine group.

My theory is that this engine group has an early 65 build since B19KC
translates to Feb 19, 1965.   

I believe that date indicates start build paperwork for the Cleveland
Foundry and I expect some engines were built in Feb, March 1965.

These 260 engines were built to 1965 specifications and painted black.

The problem is, I have no evidence for this early build so I need your help
to solve the mystery.

I believe this early build of the B19KC group started around engine # 5570
and ended around engine #6000.

It would be interesting to know what engine # started the B19KC engine
group.

It would be interesting to know what engine # ended this early build.

I have read some statements online indicating there are owners with black
B19KC engines.

I would like to hear from them and send them my Original Engine Worksheet so
if anyone has one of these engine or has seen one somewhere; please pass my
contact information to them.

I'm always looking for more information about any of the engine groups so
don't hesitate to participate.

Thanks for your help

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Mayf<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I don&#8217;t know why but my server =
always gives me a Mail Delivery error for you.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I&#8217;ve forward this to the Tigers List so =
you&#8217;re sure to receive my reply<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Ron Fraser<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Ron Fraser =
[mailto:[email-masked]] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 05, =
2016 11:43 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Larry Mayfield' =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Tigers] Original Tiger =
Engine Study<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Mayf<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The way I understand it Ford =
produced and applied the decals on each valve cover; I believe this was =
Ford&#8217;s accounting system for each engine.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The engine group numbers vary in letters; this is an =
old alpha to numeric system that Norm Miller discovered at Ford. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;He lists it on his web site, Bits and Pieces pg. =
4.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Tiger Engine groups start with T, =
E, G, L, A, K, S, F, B and each represents a different number and covers =
engine groups from T15KL =3D 8/15/63 to <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>A22KK =3D 4/22/66.&nbsp; I believe the engine group =
numbers represents a start build paperwork date for the Cleveland =
Foundry.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>My hope is to understand what kind of correlation =
there is between the engine group numbers and the assembly date codes =
stamped into each engine within each engine group.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To me everything on the Sunbeam or =
Rootes LTD valve cover sticker screams Ford.&nbsp;&nbsp; Rootes would =
have no reason to make and apply a decal that states Ford especially =
with Chrysler buying shares in the Rootes Group &nbsp;but Ford would =
have every reason in the world to advertise Made in the USA by Ford =
Motor Company. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Ron<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Larry Mayfield [<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</a>] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 05, 2016 8:17 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Ron =
Fraser' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>S=
ubject:</b> RE: [Tigers] Original Tiger Engine =
Study<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Ron, rereading =
some of my emails. Have a question regards the engine codes like the one =
below.&nbsp; Isn&#8217;t that metal decal added by Sunbeam and not =
Ford?&nbsp; Do they all start with a B? Like our car vin numbers.&nbsp; =
Seems to me that this would be a way for Rootes to tie engines to cars =
rather than to Ford tr<a name=3D"_MailEndCompose">ying to do that.&nbsp; =
Or is it that I am a day late and a dollar short in knowing what is =
going on, lol. That is a strong possibility! My guess is that when =
engines rolled into Rootes the production folk immediately slapped the =
decal on the valve cover to indicate the cars in production that week or =
month. &nbsp;</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Anyway, =
interesting discussion regards some of these things. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Mayf<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>_________________________<br>drmayf<br>Worlds Fastest =
Sunbeam, period.<br>204.913 mph flying mile<br>210.779 mph exit (not =
top)&nbsp; speed<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Tigers [<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:tigers-bounces@autox=
.team.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ron Fraser via Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Sunday, August 28, 2016 9:08 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Sub=
ject:</b> [Tigers] Original Tiger Engine =
Study<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>The =
mystery of the B19KC engine group.<o:p></o:p></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>My theory is =
that this engine group has an early 65 build since B19KC translates to =
Feb 19, 1965.&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I believe =
that date indicates start build paperwork for the Cleveland Foundry and =
I expect some engines were built in Feb, March 1965.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>These 260 engines were built to 1965 specifications =
and painted black.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>The =
problem is, I have no evidence for this early build so I need your help =
to solve the mystery.<o:p></o:p></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>I believe =
this early build of the B19KC group started around engine # 5570 and =
ended around engine #6000.<o:p></o:p></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>It would be =
interesting to know what engine # started the B19KC engine =
group.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>It would be interesting to know what engine # ended =
this early build.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I have read =
some statements online indicating there are owners with black B19KC =
engines.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I would like to hear from =
them and send them my Original Engine Worksheet so if anyone has one of =
these engine or has seen one somewhere; please pass my contact =
information to them.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>I&#8217;m =
always looking for more information about any of the engine groups so =
don&#8217;t hesitate to participate.<o:p></o:p></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks for =
your help<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ron =
Fraser&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]

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---

From: Ron Fraser via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 12:38:46 -0400 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01D2083B.9F1E4720"

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Mayf

                This is the error I get sending to your email address - This
is the email server for the mayfco.com domain.  I'm sorry to have to inform
you that the message returned below could not be delivered to one or more
destinations.

account by that name here

I have no idea why this happens; it's beyond me.  It's almost like there is
a Block in place on one of our systems.

Back to the subject

All 260 engines were cast and assembled at the Cleveland Foundry; you will
see a CF logo cast into the parts.  See picture - 289 head with CF logo.
260 is not cast into any of the 260 parts only the CF logo and a casting
date code; this is where casting numbers are important to understand the
parts you have.

Since the Cleveland Foundry was familiar with the process of packaging
containers to ship engines and transmissions to England I believe it is
logical that all Tiger engines 260 and 289 were cast and assembled at the
Cleveland Foundry.  I have seen no indication of anything other than this.

The Windsor Foundry castings have a WF logo cast into them.   The Windsor
Foundry started making 289 engine in Jan/ Feb 1966.  I see no reason why any
Tiger engine production would be transferred to the Windsor Foundry.

Ford sent Rootes at least 7085 engines + spares, the actual total count is
not known to me, so you're looking at around $5,000,000 at $700 each, I
don't know the actual price per engine.  I would say that is good chunk of
change, around 1 million dollars a year, assuming that is near correct.
Granted, that probably looks like chump change looking at a total Ford
Operating Budget.

Another question that pops up; Why do the engine numbers seem all over the
place with respect to the Vin #?   My best guess here is shipping and
handling.

Ford does things in a linear manor until you look at the number of people
involved moving engines for storage, packaging, loading and unloading onto
trains, ships or whatever transport method employed both in the USA and
England.    Shipping and handling creates the chaos with the engine number
order, FILO may apply here too, First In, Last Out at every loading and
unloading station.

Ron Fraser

 

From: Larry Mayfield [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 10:19 AM
To: 'Ron Fraser' <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [Tigers] FW: Original Tiger Engine Study

Thanks, Ron. I somehow or another see the valve cover number replacing the
engine number for parts tracking at the dealer/manufacturer level. As to
Ford, this was a pretty small order actually. Approximately 6000 engines at
what, say 700 bucks, at the time. And over the delivery period, not much  on
an annual sales basis for Ford.  Windsor motors made at the Cleveland Site?
I guess I do need to be educyficated, lol.  

[email-masked]  ?  Interesting.  Perhaps you need to add me to your
address book? 

Thanks for trying to straighten me out, lol.

mayf

From: Tigers [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
via Tigers
Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 8:51 PM
Subject: [Tigers] FW: Original Tiger Engine Study

Mayf

Ron Fraser

Mayf

Ron

From: Larry Mayfield [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 8:17 PM
To: 'Ron Fraser' <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Original Tiger Engine Study

Mayf

 

Thanks for your help

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Mayf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This is the =
error I get sending to your email address - </span><b>This is the email =
server for the mayfco.com domain.&nbsp; I'm sorry to have to inform you =
that the message returned below could not be delivered to one or more =
destinations.<o:p></o:p></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"><span =
style=3D'color:#0563C1'>[email-masked]</span></a>&gt;: Permanent =
Failure: No account by that name here<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>I have no =
idea why this happens; it&#8217;s beyond me.&nbsp; It&#8217;s almost =
like there is a Block in place on one of our systems.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Back to the =
subject<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>All 260 =
engines were cast and assembled at the Cleveland Foundry; you will see a =
CF logo cast into the parts.&nbsp; See picture &#8211; 289 head with CF =
logo.&nbsp; 260 is not cast into any of the 260 parts only the CF logo =
and a casting date code; this is where casting numbers are important to =
understand the parts you have.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Since the =
Cleveland Foundry was familiar with the process of packaging containers =
to ship engines and transmissions to England I believe it is logical =
that all Tiger engines 260 and 289 were cast and assembled at the =
Cleveland Foundry.&nbsp; I have seen no indication of anything other =
than this.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>The Windsor =
Foundry castings have a WF logo cast into them.&nbsp;&nbsp; The Windsor =
Foundry started making 289 engine in Jan/ Feb 1966.&nbsp; I see no =
reason why any Tiger engine production would be transferred to the =
Windsor Foundry.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Ford sent =
Rootes at least 7085 engines + spares, the actual total count is not =
known to me, so you&#8217;re looking at around $5,000,000 at $700 each, =
I don&#8217;t know the actual price per engine.&nbsp; I would say that =
is good chunk of change, around 1 million dollars a year, assuming that =
is near correct.&nbsp; Granted, that probably looks like chump change =
looking at a total Ford Operating Budget.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Another =
question that pops up; Why do the engine numbers seem all over the place =
with respect to the Vin #?&nbsp;&nbsp; My best guess here is shipping =
and handling.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Ford does =
things in a linear manor until you look at the number of people involved =
moving engines for storage, packaging, loading and unloading onto =
trains, ships or whatever transport method employed both in the USA and =
England.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Shipping and handling creates the chaos with =
the engine number order, <b>FILO may apply here too, <u>First In, Last =
Out</u></b> at every loading and unloading =
station.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Ron =
Fraser<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Larry Mayfield =
[mailto:[email-masked]] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 06, 2016 =
10:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Ron Fraser' =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Tigers] FW: =
Original Tiger Engine Study<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#993366'>Thanks, Ron. I somehow or another see the valve =
cover number replacing the engine number for parts tracking at the =
dealer/manufacturer level. As to Ford, this was a pretty small order =
actually. Approximately 6000 engines at what, say 700 bucks, at the =
time. And over the delivery period, not much&nbsp; on an annual sales =
basis for Ford. &nbsp;Windsor motors made at the Cleveland Site? I guess =
I do need to be educyficated, lol. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#993366'>As to mail =
bounces?&nbsp; Do you send directly to&nbsp; </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"><b>[email-masked]</b></a><span =
style=3D'color:#993366'>&nbsp; ? &nbsp;Interesting. &nbsp;Perhaps you =
need to add me to your address book? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#993366'>Thanks for trying to =
straighten me out, lol&#8230;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#993366'>mayf<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a><span =
style=3D'color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Tigers [<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:tigers-bounces@autox=
.team.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ron Fraser via Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Monday, September 5, 2016 8:51 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Sub=
ject:</b> [Tigers] FW: Original Tiger Engine =
Study<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Mayf<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I don&#8217;t know why but my server =
always gives me a Mail Delivery error for you.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I&#8217;ve forward this to the Tigers List so =
you&#8217;re sure to receive my reply<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Ron Fraser<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Ron Fraser [<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</a>] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 05, 2016 11:43 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
'Larry Mayfield' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject=
:</b> RE: [Tigers] Original Tiger Engine =
Study<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Mayf<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The way I understand it Ford =
produced and applied the decals on each valve cover; I believe this was =
Ford&#8217;s accounting system for each engine.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The engine group numbers vary in letters; this is an =
old alpha to numeric system that Norm Miller discovered at Ford. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;He lists it on his web site, Bits and Pieces pg. =
4.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Tiger Engine groups start with T, =
E, G, L, A, K, S, F, B and each represents a different number and covers =
engine groups from T15KL =3D 8/15/63 to <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>A22KK =3D 4/22/66.&nbsp; I believe the engine group =
numbers represents a start build paperwork date for the Cleveland =
Foundry.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>My hope is to understand what kind of correlation =
there is between the engine group numbers and the assembly date codes =
stamped into each engine within each engine group.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To me everything on the Sunbeam or =
Rootes LTD valve cover sticker screams Ford.&nbsp;&nbsp; Rootes would =
have no reason to make and apply a decal that states Ford especially =
with Chrysler buying shares in the Rootes Group &nbsp;but Ford would =
have every reason in the world to advertise Made in the USA by Ford =
Motor Company. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Ron<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Larry Mayfield [<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</a>] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 05, 2016 8:17 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Ron =
Fraser' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>S=
ubject:</b> RE: [Tigers] Original Tiger Engine =
Study<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Ron, rereading =
some of my emails. Have a question regards the engine codes like the one =
below.&nbsp; Isn&#8217;t that metal decal added by Sunbeam and not =
Ford?&nbsp; Do they all start with a B? Like our car vin numbers.&nbsp; =
Seems to me that this would be a way for Rootes to tie engines to cars =
rather than to Ford trying to do that.&nbsp; Or is it that I am a day =
late and a dollar short in knowing what is going on, lol. That is a =
strong possibility! My guess is that when engines rolled into Rootes the =
production folk immediately slapped the decal on the valve cover to =
indicate the cars in production that week or month. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Anyway, =
interesting discussion regards some of these things. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Mayf<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>_________________________<br>drmayf<br>Worlds Fastest =
Sunbeam, period.<br>204.913 mph flying mile<br>210.779 mph exit (not =
top)&nbsp; speed<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Tigers [<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:tigers-bounces@autox=
.team.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ron Fraser via Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Sunday, August 28, 2016 9:08 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Sub=
ject:</b> [Tigers] Original Tiger Engine =
Study<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>The =
mystery of the B19KC engine group.<o:p></o:p></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>My theory is =
that this engine group has an early 65 build since B19KC translates to =
Feb 19, 1965.&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I believe =
that date indicates start build paperwork for the Cleveland Foundry and =
I expect some engines were built in Feb, March 1965.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>These 260 engines were built to 1965 specifications =
and painted black.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>The =
problem is, I have no evidence for this early build so I need your help =
to solve the mystery.<o:p></o:p></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>I believe =
this early build of the B19KC group started around engine # 5570 and =
ended around engine #6000.<o:p></o:p></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>It would be =
interesting to know what engine # started the B19KC engine =
group.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>It would be interesting to know what engine # ended =
this early build.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I have read =
some statements online indicating there are owners with black B19KC =
engines.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I would like to hear from =
them and send them my Original Engine Worksheet so if anyone has one of =
these engine or has seen one somewhere; please pass my contact =
information to them.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>I&#8217;m =
always looking for more information about any of the engine groups so =
don&#8217;t hesitate to participate.<o:p></o:p></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks for =
your help<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ron =
Fraser&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
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[email-masked]

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