Subject: Re: [Tigers] Motor Oil

From: Larry Paulick via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2015 18:46:26 -0500

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Tod, Mercedes AMG engines, one man one engine, it built with Mobil One, =
taken the engine to the dyno, run to red line, and either makes the hp =
and torque or is rebuilt.  They only use Mobil One in the entire =
process.

I also agree that many cam mnf recommend the use of a special lube =
during brake in just as you mentioned.

I have always used Mobil One, and am impressed with its performance and =
longevity as an oil.

Larry
> On Nov 14, 2015, at 5:19 PM, Tod Brown via Tigers =
<[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> My understanding is that the most important issue with flat-tappet =
engines and lubrication is that
> the initial break-in is crucial to longevity. For the first 1500-2000 =
miles of operation it is extremely=20
> important that the proper level of zinc additive (i.e. zddp) be =
provided so that cam surfaces, rings
> and cylinder bores be allowed to seat themselves. Newer oils are too =
slick to allow the necessary
> scuffing to take place, whereas the presence of zddp provides enough =
friction for the seating to=20
> take place. Once past the initial break-in, zddp is no longer as =
necessary. I have not seen a definitive
> statement as to whether zddp is necessary after break-in but many =
sources recommend that an
> oil with higher levels of zddp be used.=20
>=20
> I found the discussion at  =
<http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-0702-break-in-new-cam/>http://ww=
w.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-0702-break-in-new-cam/ =
<http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-0702-break-in-new-cam/>
> to be helpful. Note that, at the end of the article, there are some =
recommendations for oils with
> higher levels of zddp, usually used in diesel engines.=20
>=20
> Cheers,
>=20
> Tod Brown
> B382002384LRXFE
> TAC #864
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> [email-masked]
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
>=20
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Tod, Mercedes AMG engines, one man one engine, it built with =
Mobil One, taken the engine to the dyno, run to red line, and either =
makes the hp and torque or is rebuilt. &nbsp;They only use Mobil One in =
the entire process.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I =
also agree that many cam mnf recommend the use of a special lube during =
brake in just as you mentioned.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I have always used Mobil One, and am =
impressed with its performance and longevity as an oil.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Larry<br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Nov 14, 2015, at 5:19 PM, Tod Brown via Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">
 =20

    <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8" class=3D"">
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000" class=3D"">
    <font face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">My understanding is that the most =
important issue
      with flat-tappet engines and lubrication is that<br class=3D"">
      <font face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">the initial br<font face=3D"Arial" =
class=3D"">e<font face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">ak-in is crucial to =
longevity. For the first</font></font></font>
      1500-2000 miles <font face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">of operation it is =
extremely <br class=3D"">
        <font face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">important that the proper level =
of zinc
          additive (i.e. zddp) be<font face=3D"Arial" class=3D""> <font =
face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">provided
              so that cam surfaces<font face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">, =
rings<br class=3D"">
                <font face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">and cylinder bores be =
allowed to seat
                  themselves. Newer oils are too slick to allow the
                  necessary<br class=3D"">
                  <font face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">scuffing to take =
place, whereas the
                    presence of zddp provides enough friction for the
                    seating to <br class=3D"">
                    <font face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">take place. Once =
past the initial
                      break-in, zddp is no longer as necessary. I have
                      not seen a definitive<br class=3D"">
                      <font face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">statement as to =
whether zddp is
                        necessary after break-in but many sources
                        recommend that an<br class=3D"">
                        <font face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">oil with higher =
levels of
                          zddp be used. <br class=3D"">
                          <br class=3D"">
                          <font face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">I found the =
discussion at <a =
href=3D"http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-0702-break-in-new-cam/" =
class=3D""></a><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-0702-break-in-new-cam/">h=
ttp://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-0702-break-in-new-cam/</a><br =
class=3D"">
                            <font face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">to be =
helpful. Note that<font face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">, at the end of the
                                article, there are some recommendations
                                for oils with<br class=3D"">
                                <font face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">higher =
levels of
                                  zddp, usually used in diesel engines.
                                  <br class=3D"">
                                  <br class=3D"">
                                  <font face=3D"Arial" =
class=3D"">Cheers,<br class=3D"">
                                    <br class=3D"">
                                    <font face=3D"Arial" class=3D"">Tod =
Brown<br class=3D"">
                                      <font face=3D"Arial" =
class=3D"">B382002384LRXFE<br class=3D"">
                                        <font face=3D"Arial" =
class=3D"">TAC #864</font><br class=3D"">
                                      =
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></fo=
nt></font></font></font></font></font></font></font>
  </div>

_______________________________________________<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Donate: =
http://www.team.net/forums<br class=3D"">Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Tom Witt via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2015 17:08:10 -0800

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>From what I=E2=80=99ve read flat tappet cams aren=E2=80=99t really flat =
and neither are the lifters. The cam is ground with a slight angle on =
its surface and the lifter is slightly convex. Both enhance the spinning =
of the lifter on the cam. Many (I know I use to) likely assume the =
lifter stays relatively stationary and =E2=80=9Cslides=E2=80=9D on the =
cam based on the normal description.  One product that I=E2=80=99ve =
heard about is GM EOS (engine oil supplement). This is the link (Summit) =
and the write up. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-88862586  =
=E2=80=9C Protect your engine with a bottle of proven Chevrolet =
Performance E.O.S. additive to keep your engine running smoothly and =
efficiently. This Engine Oil Supplement is recommended to be installed =
before firing a new engine equipped with a Chevrolet Performance =
camshaft.  I used this when I broke in a new cam. In addition to the =
2,000-2,500 RPM break in process I set the idle at about 1,000 RPM for =
the first 1,000 miles.

As far as the diesel oils go (Rotella etc.) I=E2=80=99ve heard that they =
too have reduced ZDDP also now that those vehicle are running some form =
of CATs. Maybe oil should be labeled like food so we know specifically =
what is in it. What I find interesting is I=E2=80=99ve never seen an =
additive bottle that stated not to use it in a modern (CAT) car.  Yet =
they are requiring it removed from oil to protect the CAT??? Hummm... .  =
 The oil additive debate seems to follow the same course like the need =
for supplement vitamins.

From: Tod Brown via Tigers=20
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2015 2:19 PM
To: [email-masked]=20
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Motor Oil

important that the proper level of zinc additive (i.e. zddp) be provided =
so that cam surfaces, rings

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-0702-break-in-new-cam/

Cheers,

Tod Brown
B382002384LRXFE
TAC #864

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
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[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: =
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
http-equiv=3Dcontent-type></HEAD>
<BODY dir=3Dltr bgColor=3D#ffffff text=3D#000000>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>From what I=E2=80=99ve read flat tappet cams aren=E2=80=99t really =
flat and neither are the=20
lifters. The cam is ground with a slight angle on its surface and the =
lifter is=20
slightly convex. Both enhance the spinning of the lifter on the cam. =
Many (I=20
know I use to) likely assume the lifter stays relatively stationary and =
=E2=80=9Cslides=E2=80=9D=20
on the cam based on the normal description.&nbsp; One product that =
I=E2=80=99ve heard=20
about is GM EOS (engine oil supplement). This is the link (Summit) and =
the write=20
up. <A title=3Dhttp://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-88862586=20
href=3D"http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-88862586">http://www.summit=
racing.com/parts/nal-88862586</A>&nbsp;=20
=E2=80=9C <FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Protect your engine with a =
bottle of proven=20
Chevrolet Performance E.O.S. additive to keep your engine running =
smoothly and=20
efficiently. This Engine Oil Supplement is recommended to be installed =
<U>before=20
firing a new engine equipped with a Chevrolet Performance =
camshaft</U>.&nbsp;=20
</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I used this when I broke in a new =
cam. In=20
addition to the 2,000-2,500 RPM break in process I set the idle at about =
1,000=20
RPM for the first 1,000 miles.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">As far as the diesel oils go =
(Rotella etc.)=20
I=E2=80=99ve heard that they too have reduced ZDDP also now that those =
vehicle are=20
running some form of CATs. Maybe oil should be labeled like food so we =
know=20
specifically what is in it. What I find interesting is I=E2=80=99ve =
never seen an=20
additive bottle that stated not to use it in a modern (CAT) car.&nbsp; =
Yet they=20
are requiring it removed from oil to protect the CAT??? Hummm... =
.&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
The oil additive debate seems to follow the same course like the need =
for=20
supplement vitamins.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Tod Brown via Tigers</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 14, 2015 2:19 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Tigers] Motor Oil</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'><FONT=20
face=3DArial>My understanding is that the most important issue with =
flat-tappet=20
engines and lubrication is that<BR><FONT face=3DArial>the initial =
br<FONT=20
face=3DArial>e<FONT face=3DArial>ak-in is crucial to longevity. For the=20
first</FONT></FONT></FONT> 1500-2000 miles <FONT face=3DArial>of =
operation it is=20
extremely <BR><FONT face=3DArial>important that the proper level of zinc =
additive=20
(i.e. zddp) be<FONT face=3DArial> <FONT face=3DArial>provided so that =
cam=20
surfaces<FONT face=3DArial>, rings<BR><FONT face=3DArial>and cylinder =
bores be=20
allowed to seat themselves. Newer oils are too slick to allow the=20
necessary<BR><FONT face=3DArial>scuffing to take place, whereas the =
presence of=20
zddp provides enough friction for the seating to <BR><FONT =
face=3DArial>take=20
place. Once past the initial break-in, zddp is no longer as necessary. I =
have=20
not seen a definitive<BR><FONT face=3DArial>statement as to whether zddp =
is=20
necessary after break-in but many sources recommend that an<BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial>oil with higher levels of zddp be used. <BR><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial>I=20
found the discussion at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-0702-break-in-new-cam/">=
<A=20
class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext=20
href=3D"http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-0702-break-in-new-cam/">=
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-0702-break-in-new-cam/</A></A><B=
R><FONT=20
face=3DArial>to be helpful. Note that<FONT face=3DArial>, at the end of =
the article,=20
there are some recommendations for oils with<BR><FONT =
face=3DArial>higher levels=20
of zddp, usually used in diesel engines. <BR><BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial>Cheers,<BR><BR><FONT face=3DArial>Tod Brown<BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial>B382002384LRXFE<BR><FONT face=3DArial>TAC=20
#864</FONT><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></=
FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT>
<P>
<HR>
_______________________________________________<BR><BR>[email-masked].=
net<BR><BR>Donate:=20
http://www.team.net/forums<BR>Unsubscribe:=20
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