Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fwd: Driven Tger nsurance

From: CoolVT--- via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 17:36:27 -0400

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I think it makes a big difference on where you are located. I  pay State 
Farm $202 for a stated value, classic car policy.  This is in  Vermont where 
the rates are more reasonable than a highly populated area.   For example 
I've been quoted prices from State Farm on another vehicle in both  Vermont and 
Florida. The Florida quote was almost double the VT  quote.

In a message dated 8/24/2015 5:26:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[email-masked] writes:

I had to get an appraiser's stated value in writing that cost me $275,  
that valued the car at 52.5, the writer for Commerce said they would only  
insure the car for 48 with a 500 deductible. If you want the freedom to use  the 
car it's gonna cost ya.
  Jeff

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 6:50 PM, Stu via Tigers <[email-masked] 
(mailto:[email-masked]) > wrote:

I just went through this,  and Hagerty seemed a little more liberal than 
Grundy.  Their use  restrictions mostly fit my use model.  Occasional pleasure 
drives, car  shows, cruise nights, maybe to a family party to show off, 
rarely to work  (once in the last year and a half), all the family at home have 
their own  cars, no family under 25 who know how to drive a stick, evening 
or weekend  drives to try to track down that pesky problem, and so on.  From 
what  their stuff says, these would be mostly OK.

Stu

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Jay Laifman via Tigers 
<[email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked]) > wrote:

I have had the same issue - this is also for my early 911 and  912.  There 
are a number of issues with all the classic car  policies.  As you've noted, 
it can't be your daily driver.  Not  only that, you have to have a car that 
is at least 15 years old for all  drivers in the house.  My 2000 Boxster, 
which is still like new isn't  good enough. One company said I might be able 
to get a waiver of this  one.  Some said there is no waiver.    

Another issue is that no one under 25 can drive the car.   So if  my son 
and I drive to a car show, he can't drive at all.  I kind of  get it.  But, 
life's too short not to enjoy these cars with my kids  here and now.

Another issue is that you can use it to go to work once and a  while.  But 
that is on a rare occasion when you are doing something  else.  So if you 
want to drive it every Friday or a week here and  there, you won't be covered. 
 That means NO coverage.  Some of  them were really strict on this - like 
if you get in an accident on a  Wednesday morning at 7:00 am on your route to 
work, don't expect getting  coverage for the accident without a huge fight.

One of the places, and I think it was Grundy's, I asked if I could  stop at 
a hardware store on the weekends.  She gasped and recounted  how she saw a 
Ferrari parked at the far end of a Home Depot over the  weekend and thought 
to herself that she sure hopes she doesn't insure that  car!  Geeze, really? 
 Us car guys can't stop at a hardware store  and park at the far end?  
That's a show stopper for me. Note some  others said it was ok if it was part of 
a joy ride and not a weekend  errand drive.

Believe me, I called EVERY ONE of the companies and asked them all  the 
same questions.  They all basically gave the same answers.   Yes, you can get 
their insurance and figure they will never know.   And they may give half 
answers about how they cover various things.   But, if you really put them to 
specific questions, they don't give good  answers.  

I get it.  They have to evaluate their risk and what they want  to insure.  
They want to insure parade cars and joy ride cars, and  will take the risk 
for a restaurant with your wife here and there.   That's not me, and never 
will be.  

I guess you can look at it another way too.  I have not paid  more than 
$10k for any of my cars.  So in one way, if something bad  happened, I would be 
out only $10k plus the expenses over the years.   I know, two of these cars 
are probably (definitely?) worth over $100k in  investment terms.  So I 
could lose much more in paper.  I don't  like looking at it this way, but it is 
a way to rationalize it.

Right now, I do a lot of self insurance by being especially careful  where 
I park the cars, how long I am away from them, how well they are  locked up, 
etc.  It's not perfect.  But, I'd rather be  underinsured than have NO 
insurance because I have a classic policy and  I'm using it to actually drive.

Jay

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:59 PM, genepadgett--- via  Tigers 
<[email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked]) > wrote:

 
I did not see this post to my own e-mail and am thinking that  somehow it 
did not go through.  I am re-sending it in hopes that it  will go through 
this time.   Confirmation of receipt from anyone on  the List would be 
appreciated.

TIA,   Gene

____________________________________
From:  [email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked]) 
To: "tigers" <[email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked]) >
Sent: Friday,  August 21, 2015 12:28:53 PM
Subject: Driven Tger nsurance

Hi All,

With the recent jump in auction prices for our cars, I am wondering  what 
people like me who just enjoy driving their cars are doing for  insurance.   
I just got turned down by Grundy because the "vehicle  cannot be used as 
backup, primary or secondary transportation".    This dispite the fact both my 
wife and I have other cars which serve as  our regular daily driver vehicles.

To me, being able to take the Tiger out when and where I want to go  is the 
essence of having and enjoying the car in the first place.    It is the 
journey not the destination that matters to me.    I  bought the car new in 
1967 and have never thought of it as a collectible  or investment.   Still with 
the recent escalation in apparent  values, I do not want to be stupid about 
insurance.

Anyone else on the List that might be of a similar mind as me and  own 
their Tiger for the enjoyment of driving it can bring?   If so  what do you do 
for insurance?

TIA,

Gene

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<DIV><STRONG>I think it makes a&nbsp;big difference on where you are locat=
ed. I=20
pay State Farm $202 for a stated value, classic car policy.&nbsp; This is=
 in=20
Vermont where the rates are more reasonable than a highly populated area.&=
nbsp;=20
For example I've been quoted prices from State Farm on another vehicle in=
 both=20
Vermont and Florida. The Florida quote was almost double the VT=20
quote.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 8/24/2015 5:26:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20
[email-masked] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"=
><FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3D=
Arial>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV>I had to get an appraiser's stated value in writing that cost me $2=
75,=20
  that valued the car at 52.5, the writer for Commerce said they would onl=
y=20
  insure the car for 48 with a 500 deductible. If you want the freedom to=
 use=20
  the car it's gonna cost ya.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp; Jeff</DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3Dgmail_extra><BR>
  <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 6:50 PM, Stu via Tigers=
 <SPAN=20
  dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A title=3Dmailto:[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
  target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc=
 1px solid">
    <DIV dir=3Dltr>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_default style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small">I just went thro=
ugh this,=20
    and Hagerty seemed a little more liberal than Grundy.&nbsp; Their use=
=20
    restrictions mostly fit my use model.&nbsp; Occasional pleasure drives=
, car=20
    shows, cruise nights, maybe to a family party to show off, rarely to=
 work=20
    (once in the last year and a half), all the family at home have their=
 own=20
    cars, no family under 25 who know how to drive a stick, evening or wee=
kend=20
    drives to try to track down that pesky problem, and so on.&nbsp; From=
 what=20
    their stuff says, these would be mostly OK.</DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_default style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small"><BR></DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_default style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small">Stu</DIV></DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_extra><BR>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>
    <DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dh5>On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Jay Laifman via Tiger=
s <SPAN=20
    dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A title=3Dmailto:[email-masked]=20
    href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
    target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR></DIV><=
/DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rg=
b(204,204,204) 1px solid">
      <DIV>
      <DIV class=3Dh5>
      <DIV dir=3Dltr>I have had the same issue - this is also for my early=
 911 and=20
      912.&nbsp; There are a number of issues with all the classic car=20
      policies.&nbsp; As you've noted, it can't be your daily driver.&nbsp=
; Not=20
      only that, you have to have a car that is at least 15 years old for=
 all=20
      drivers in the house.&nbsp; My 2000 Boxster, which is still like new=
 isn't=20
      good enough. One company said I might be able to get a waiver of thi=
s=20
      one.&nbsp; Some said there is no waiver. &nbsp;=20
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV>Another issue is that no one under 25 can drive the car. &nbsp;=
 So if=20
      my son and I drive to a car show, he can't drive at all.&nbsp; I kin=
d of=20
      get it.&nbsp; But, life's too short not to enjoy these cars with my=
 kids=20
      here and now.</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV>Another issue is that you can use it to go to work once and a=
=20
      while.&nbsp; But that is on a rare occasion when you are doing somet=
hing=20
      else.&nbsp; So if you want to drive it every Friday or a week here=
 and=20
      there, you won't be covered.&nbsp; That means NO coverage.&nbsp; Som=
e of=20
      them were really strict on this - like if you get in an accident on=
 a=20
      Wednesday morning at 7:00 am on your route to work, don't expect get=
ting=20
      coverage for the accident without a huge fight.</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV>One of the places, and I think it was Grundy's, I asked if I co=
uld=20
      stop at a hardware store on the weekends.&nbsp; She gasped and recou=
nted=20
      how she saw a Ferrari parked at the far end of a Home Depot over the=
=20
      weekend and thought to herself that she sure hopes she doesn't insur=
e that=20
      car!&nbsp; Geeze, really?&nbsp; Us car guys can't stop at a hardware=
 store=20
      and park at the far end?&nbsp; That's a show stopper for me. Note so=
me=20
      others said it was ok if it was part of a joy ride and not a weekend=
=20
      errand drive.</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV>Believe me, I called EVERY ONE of the companies and asked them=
 all=20
      the same questions.&nbsp; They all basically gave the same answers.&=
nbsp;=20
      Yes, you can get their insurance and figure they will never know.&nb=
sp;=20
      And they may give half answers about how they cover various things.&=
nbsp;=20
      But, if you really put them to specific questions, they don't give=
 good=20
      answers. &nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV>I get it.&nbsp; They have to evaluate their risk and what they=
 want=20
      to insure.&nbsp; They want to insure parade cars and joy ride cars,=
 and=20
      will take the risk for a restaurant with your wife here and there.&n=
bsp;=20
      That's not me, and never will be. &nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV>I guess you can look at it another way too.&nbsp; I have not pa=
id=20
      more than $10k for any of my cars.&nbsp; So in one way, if something=
 bad=20
      happened, I would be out only $10k plus the expenses over the years.=
&nbsp;=20
      I know, two of these cars are probably (definitely?) worth over $100=
k in=20
      investment terms.&nbsp; So I could lose much more in paper.&nbsp; I=
 don't=20
      like looking at it this way, but it is a way to rationalize it.</DIV=
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV>Right now, I do a lot of self insurance by being especially car=
eful=20
      where I park the cars, how long I am away from them, how well they=
 are=20
      locked up, etc.&nbsp; It's not perfect.&nbsp; But, I'd rather be=20
      underinsured than have NO insurance because I have a classic policy=
 and=20
      I'm using it to actually drive.</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV>Jay</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
      <DIV class=3Dgmail_extra><BR>
      <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:59 PM, genepadget=
t--- via=20
      Tigers <SPAN dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A title=3Dmailto:[email-masked]=
=20
      href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
      target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
      <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
      style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT:=
 rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
        <DIV>
        <DIV=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: rgb=
(0,0,0)">
        <DIV><BR></DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV>
        <DIV=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: Helv=
etica,Arial,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE=
: normal">
        <DIV=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: rgb=
(0,0,0)">
        <DIV>I did not see this post to my own e-mail and am thinking that=
=20
        somehow it did not go through.&nbsp; I am re-sending it in hopes=
 that it=20
        will go through this time. &nbsp; Confirmation of receipt from any=
one on=20
        the List would be appreciated.</DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV>
        <DIV>TIA, &nbsp; Gene</DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV>
        <HR>

        <DIV=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: Helv=
etica,Arial,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE=
: normal"><B>From:=20
        </B><A title=3Dmailto:[email-masked]=20
        href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
        target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A><BR><B>To: </B>"tigers"=
 &lt;<A=20
        title=3Dmailto:[email-masked] href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
eam.net"=20
        target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A>&gt;<BR><B>Sent: </B>Frid=
ay,=20
        August 21, 2015 12:28:53 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Driven Tger nsuranc=
e<BR>
        <DIV><BR></DIV>
        <DIV=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: rgb=
(0,0,0)">
        <DIV>Hi All,</DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV>
        <DIV>With the recent jump in auction prices for our cars, I am won=
dering=20
        what people like me who just enjoy driving their cars are doing fo=
r=20
        insurance. &nbsp; I just got turned down by Grundy because the "ve=
hicle=20
        cannot be used as backup, primary or secondary transportation". &n=
bsp;=20
        This dispite the fact both my wife and I have other cars which ser=
ve as=20
        our regular daily driver vehicles.</DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV>
        <DIV>To me, being able to take the Tiger out when and where I want=
 to go=20
        is the essence of having and enjoying the car in the first place.=
 &nbsp;=20
        It is the journey not the destination that matters to me. &nbsp;=
 &nbsp;I=20
        bought the car new in 1967 and have never thought of it as a colle=
ctible=20
        or investment. &nbsp; Still with the recent escalation in apparent=
=20
        values, I do not want to be stupid about insurance.</DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV>
        <DIV>Anyone else on the List that might be of a similar mind as me=
 and=20
        own their Tiger for the enjoyment of driving it can bring? &nbsp;=
 If so=20
        what do you do for insurance?</DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV>
        <DIV>TIA,</DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV>
        <DIV>Gene</DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>___________________________________=
____________<BR><BR><A=20
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---

From: Tom Witt via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 09:27:39 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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While this discussion regards collision I think the greater concern =
would be liability. I mean, yea, eating $50K on a damaged Tiger is a =
loss, but being liable for hundreds of thousands of dollars (or more) is =
a far greater risk.  That said I think liability would be full time =
=E2=80=93 regardless, because anytime of the day someone could steal =
your car and create havoc. So, I can=E2=80=99t see how =
=E2=80=9Cuse=E2=80=9D would not cover liability under any circumstance.  =
Through my collector insurance (20+ years) I was told that 2,500 max =
miles, not a daily driver and in their words =E2=80=9Can occasional =
Sunday drive=E2=80=9D (not limited to Sunday) is OK. The persons parting =
words were, =E2=80=9CJust don=E2=80=99t drive it to work.=E2=80=9D

  I have three lesser =E2=80=9Ccollector=E2=80=9D cars. They are valued =
at $3,000 each. I don=E2=80=99t think I put more than 250 miles on =
anyone of them in a year. Neither my wife, kids, nor anyone else have =
ever driven them. In my opinion driving them to the store for parts, to =
eliminate flats spots in tires, cook off condensation etc. are all part =
of what is necessary for =E2=80=9Cmaintaining=E2=80=9D the car.  Frankly =
I find what is termed =E2=80=9Cuse=E2=80=9D is rather ambiguously =
stated. Stated in a way to control your driving, but wonder how it holds =
up in court.  Sort of like the parent that threatens to beat the =
daylights out of you regarding your behavior =E2=80=93 but legally =
can=E2=80=99t do so. Again, I=E2=80=99m more looking at the liability =
side of insurance. I doubt I=E2=80=99d ever put a claim in on a $3,000 =
car.=20

From: CoolVT--- via Tigers=20
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 2:36 PM
To: [email-masked] ; [email-masked]=20
Cc: [email-masked]=20
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fwd: Driven Tger nsurance

I think it makes a big difference on where you are located. I pay State =
Farm $202 for a stated value, classic car policy.  This is in Vermont =
where the rates are more reasonable than a highly populated area.  For =
example I've been quoted prices from State Farm on another vehicle in =
both Vermont and Florida. The Florida quote was almost double the VT =
quote.

In a message dated 8/24/2015 5:26:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =
[email-masked] writes:
  I had to get an appraiser's stated value in writing that cost me $275, =
that valued the car at 52.5, the writer for Commerce said they would =
only insure the car for 48 with a 500 deductible. If you want the =
freedom to use the car it's gonna cost ya.
    Jeff

  On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 6:50 PM, Stu via Tigers =
<[email-masked]> wrote:

    I just went through this, and Hagerty seemed a little more liberal =
than Grundy.  Their use restrictions mostly fit my use model.  =
Occasional pleasure drives, car shows, cruise nights, maybe to a family =
party to show off, rarely to work (once in the last year and a half), =
all the family at home have their own cars, no family under 25 who know =
how to drive a stick, evening or weekend drives to try to track down =
that pesky problem, and so on.  From what their stuff says, these would =
be mostly OK.

    Stu

    On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Jay Laifman via Tigers =
<[email-masked]> wrote:

      I have had the same issue - this is also for my early 911 and 912. =
 There are a number of issues with all the classic car policies.  As =
you've noted, it can't be your daily driver.  Not only that, you have to =
have a car that is at least 15 years old for all drivers in the house.  =
My 2000 Boxster, which is still like new isn't good enough. One company =
said I might be able to get a waiver of this one.  Some said there is no =
waiver.  =20

      Another issue is that no one under 25 can drive the car.   So if =
my son and I drive to a car show, he can't drive at all.  I kind of get =
it.  But, life's too short not to enjoy these cars with my kids here and =
now.

      Another issue is that you can use it to go to work once and a =
while.  But that is on a rare occasion when you are doing something =
else.  So if you want to drive it every Friday or a week here and there, =
you won't be covered.  That means NO coverage.  Some of them were really =
strict on this - like if you get in an accident on a Wednesday morning =
at 7:00 am on your route to work, don't expect getting coverage for the =
accident without a huge fight.

      One of the places, and I think it was Grundy's, I asked if I could =
stop at a hardware store on the weekends.  She gasped and recounted how =
she saw a Ferrari parked at the far end of a Home Depot over the weekend =
and thought to herself that she sure hopes she doesn't insure that car!  =
Geeze, really?  Us car guys can't stop at a hardware store and park at =
the far end?  That's a show stopper for me. Note some others said it was =
ok if it was part of a joy ride and not a weekend errand drive.

      Believe me, I called EVERY ONE of the companies and asked them all =
the same questions.  They all basically gave the same answers.  Yes, you =
can get their insurance and figure they will never know.  And they may =
give half answers about how they cover various things.  But, if you =
really put them to specific questions, they don't give good answers. =20

      I get it.  They have to evaluate their risk and what they want to =
insure.  They want to insure parade cars and joy ride cars, and will =
take the risk for a restaurant with your wife here and there.  That's =
not me, and never will be. =20

      I guess you can look at it another way too.  I have not paid more =
than $10k for any of my cars.  So in one way, if something bad happened, =
I would be out only $10k plus the expenses over the years.  I know, two =
of these cars are probably (definitely?) worth over $100k in investment =
terms.  So I could lose much more in paper.  I don't like looking at it =
this way, but it is a way to rationalize it.

      Right now, I do a lot of self insurance by being especially =
careful where I park the cars, how long I am away from them, how well =
they are locked up, etc.  It's not perfect.  But, I'd rather be =
underinsured than have NO insurance because I have a classic policy and =
I'm using it to actually drive.

      Jay

      On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:59 PM, genepadgett--- via Tigers =
<[email-masked]> wrote:

        I did not see this post to my own e-mail and am thinking that =
somehow it did not go through.  I am re-sending it in hopes that it will =
go through this time.   Confirmation of receipt from anyone on the List =
would be appreciated.

        TIA,   Gene

------------------------------------------------------------------------

        From: [email-masked]
        To: "tigers" <[email-masked]>
        Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 12:28:53 PM
        Subject: Driven Tger nsurance

        Hi All,

        With the recent jump in auction prices for our cars, I am =
wondering what people like me who just enjoy driving their cars are =
doing for insurance.   I just got turned down by Grundy because the =
"vehicle cannot be used as backup, primary or secondary transportation". =
  This dispite the fact both my wife and I have other cars which serve =
as our regular daily driver vehicles.

        To me, being able to take the Tiger out when and where I want to =
go is the essence of having and enjoying the car in the first place.   =
It is the journey not the destination that matters to me.    I bought =
the car new in 1967 and have never thought of it as a collectible or =
investment.   Still with the recent escalation in apparent values, I do =
not want to be stupid about insurance.

        Anyone else on the List that might be of a similar mind as me =
and own their Tiger for the enjoyment of driving it can bring?   If so =
what do you do for insurance?

        TIA,

        Gene

        [email-masked]

        Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
        Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
        Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
        Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]

      [email-masked]

      Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
      Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
      Forums: http://www.team.net/forums

      Unsubscribe: =

    [email-masked]

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    Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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  [email-masked]

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  Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]

------=_NextPart_000_004A_01D0DF18.493C1D70
	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.9600.17963"></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
COLOR: #000000"=20
dir=3Dltr bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>While this discussion regards collision I think the greater concern =
would=20
be liability. I mean, yea, eating $50K on a damaged Tiger is a loss, but =
being=20
liable for hundreds of thousands of dollars (or more) is a far greater=20
risk.&nbsp; That said I think liability would be full time =E2=80=93 =
regardless, because=20
anytime of the day someone could steal your car and create havoc. So, I =
can=E2=80=99t=20
see how =E2=80=9Cuse=E2=80=9D would not cover liability under any =
circumstance.&nbsp; Through my=20
collector insurance (20+ years) I was told that 2,500 max miles, not a =
daily=20
driver and in their words =E2=80=9Can occasional Sunday drive=E2=80=9D =
(not limited to Sunday)=20
is OK. The persons parting words were, =E2=80=9CJust don=E2=80=99t drive =
it to work.=E2=80=9D</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp; I have three lesser =E2=80=9Ccollector=E2=80=9D cars. They =
are valued at $3,000=20
each. I don=E2=80=99t think I put more than 250 miles on anyone of them =
in a year.=20
Neither my wife, kids, nor anyone else have ever driven them. In my =
opinion=20
driving them to the store for parts, to eliminate flats spots in tires, =
cook off=20
condensation etc. are all part of what is necessary for =
=E2=80=9Cmaintaining=E2=80=9D the=20
car.&nbsp; Frankly I find what is termed =E2=80=9Cuse=E2=80=9D is rather =
ambiguously stated.=20
Stated in a way to control your driving, but wonder how it holds up in=20
court.&nbsp; Sort of like the parent that threatens to beat the =
daylights out of=20
you regarding your behavior =E2=80=93 but legally can=E2=80=99t do so. =
Again, I=E2=80=99m more looking=20
at the liability side of insurance. I doubt I=E2=80=99d ever put a claim =
in on a $3,000=20
car. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">CoolVT--- via Tigers</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 24, 2015 2:36 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> ; =
<A=20
title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=[email-masked]=20
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Tigers] Fwd: Driven Tger =
nsurance</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'><FONT=20
id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D3 face=3DArial>
<DIV><STRONG>I think it makes a big difference on where you are located. =
I pay=20
State Farm $202 for a stated value, classic car policy.&nbsp; This is in =
Vermont=20
where the rates are more reasonable than a highly populated area.&nbsp; =
For=20
example I've been quoted prices from State Farm on another vehicle in =
both=20
Vermont and Florida. The Florida quote was almost double the VT=20
quote.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 8/24/2015 5:26:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20
[email-masked] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid"><FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 =
face=3DArial>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV>I had to get an appraiser's stated value in writing that cost me =
$275,=20
  that valued the car at 52.5, the writer for Commerce said they would =
only=20
  insure the car for 48 with a 500 deductible. If you want the freedom =
to use=20
  the car it's gonna cost ya.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp; Jeff</DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3Dgmail_extra>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 6:50 PM, Stu via =
Tigers <SPAN=20
  dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A title=3Dmailto:[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
  target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
#ccc 1px solid">
    <DIV dir=3Dltr>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_default style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small">I just went =
through this,=20
    and Hagerty seemed a little more liberal than Grundy.&nbsp; Their =
use=20
    restrictions mostly fit my use model.&nbsp; Occasional pleasure =
drives, car=20
    shows, cruise nights, maybe to a family party to show off, rarely to =
work=20
    (once in the last year and a half), all the family at home have =
their own=20
    cars, no family under 25 who know how to drive a stick, evening or =
weekend=20
    drives to try to track down that pesky problem, and so on.&nbsp; =
>From what=20
    their stuff says, these would be mostly OK.</DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_default style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small">&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_default style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
small">Stu</DIV></DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_extra>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>
    <DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dh5>On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Jay Laifman via =
Tigers <SPAN=20
    dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A title=3Dmailto:[email-masked]=20
    href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
    target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A>&gt;</SPAN> =
wrote:<BR></DIV></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
      <DIV>
      <DIV class=3Dh5>
      <DIV dir=3Dltr>I have had the same issue - this is also for my =
early 911 and=20
      912.&nbsp; There are a number of issues with all the classic car=20
      policies.&nbsp; As you've noted, it can't be your daily =
driver.&nbsp; Not=20
      only that, you have to have a car that is at least 15 years old =
for all=20
      drivers in the house.&nbsp; My 2000 Boxster, which is still like =
new isn't=20
      good enough. One company said I might be able to get a waiver of =
this=20
      one.&nbsp; Some said there is no waiver.&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>Another issue is that no one under 25 can drive the =
car.&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
      So if my son and I drive to a car show, he can't drive at =
all.&nbsp; I=20
      kind of get it.&nbsp; But, life's too short not to enjoy these =
cars with=20
      my kids here and now.</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>Another issue is that you can use it to go to work once and a =

      while.&nbsp; But that is on a rare occasion when you are doing =
something=20
      else.&nbsp; So if you want to drive it every Friday or a week here =
and=20
      there, you won't be covered.&nbsp; That means NO coverage.&nbsp; =
Some of=20
      them were really strict on this - like if you get in an accident =
on a=20
      Wednesday morning at 7:00 am on your route to work, don't expect =
getting=20
      coverage for the accident without a huge fight.</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>One of the places, and I think it was Grundy's, I asked if I =
could=20
      stop at a hardware store on the weekends.&nbsp; She gasped and =
recounted=20
      how she saw a Ferrari parked at the far end of a Home Depot over =
the=20
      weekend and thought to herself that she sure hopes she doesn't =
insure that=20
      car!&nbsp; Geeze, really?&nbsp; Us car guys can't stop at a =
hardware store=20
      and park at the far end?&nbsp; That's a show stopper for me. Note =
some=20
      others said it was ok if it was part of a joy ride and not a =
weekend=20
      errand drive.</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>Believe me, I called EVERY ONE of the companies and asked =
them all=20
      the same questions.&nbsp; They all basically gave the same =
answers.&nbsp;=20
      Yes, you can get their insurance and figure they will never =
know.&nbsp;=20
      And they may give half answers about how they cover various =
things.&nbsp;=20
      But, if you really put them to specific questions, they don't give =
good=20
      answers.&nbsp; </DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>I get it.&nbsp; They have to evaluate their risk and what =
they want=20
      to insure.&nbsp; They want to insure parade cars and joy ride =
cars, and=20
      will take the risk for a restaurant with your wife here and =
there.&nbsp;=20
      That's not me, and never will be.&nbsp; </DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>I guess you can look at it another way too.&nbsp; I have not =
paid=20
      more than $10k for any of my cars.&nbsp; So in one way, if =
something bad=20
      happened, I would be out only $10k plus the expenses over the =
years.&nbsp;=20
      I know, two of these cars are probably (definitely?) worth over =
$100k in=20
      investment terms.&nbsp; So I could lose much more in paper.&nbsp; =
I don't=20
      like looking at it this way, but it is a way to rationalize =
it.</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>Right now, I do a lot of self insurance by being especially =
careful=20
      where I park the cars, how long I am away from them, how well they =
are=20
      locked up, etc.&nbsp; It's not perfect.&nbsp; But, I'd rather be=20
      underinsured than have NO insurance because I have a classic =
policy and=20
      I'm using it to actually drive.</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>Jay</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
      <DIV class=3Dgmail_extra>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:59 PM, =
genepadgett--- via=20
      Tigers <SPAN dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A title=3Dmailto:[email-masked] =

      href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
      target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
      <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
      style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
        <DIV>
        <DIV=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman; COLOR: =
rgb(0,0,0)">
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
helvetica,arial,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); =
FONT-STYLE: normal">
        <DIV=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman; COLOR: =
rgb(0,0,0)">
        <DIV>I did not see this post to my own e-mail and am thinking =
that=20
        somehow it did not go through.&nbsp; I am re-sending it in hopes =
that it=20
        will go through this time.&nbsp;&nbsp; Confirmation of receipt =
from=20
        anyone on the List would be appreciated.</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>TIA,&nbsp;&nbsp; Gene</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <HR>

        <DIV=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
helvetica,arial,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); =
FONT-STYLE: normal"><B>From:=20
        </B><A title=3Dmailto:[email-masked]=20
        href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
        target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A><BR><B>To: =
</B>"tigers" &lt;<A=20
        title=3Dmailto:[email-masked] =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
        target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A>&gt;<BR><B>Sent: =
</B>Friday,=20
        August 21, 2015 12:28:53 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Driven Tger =
nsurance<BR>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman; COLOR: =
rgb(0,0,0)">
        <DIV>Hi All,</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>With the recent jump in auction prices for our cars, I am =
wondering=20
        what people like me who just enjoy driving their cars are doing =
for=20
        insurance.&nbsp;&nbsp; I just got turned down by Grundy because =
the=20
        "vehicle cannot be used as backup, primary or secondary=20
        transportation".&nbsp;&nbsp; This dispite the fact both my wife =
and I=20
        have other cars which serve as our regular daily driver =
vehicles.</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>To me, being able to take the Tiger out when and where I =
want to go=20
        is the essence of having and enjoying the car in the first=20
        place.&nbsp;&nbsp; It is the journey not the destination that =
matters to=20
        me.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I bought the car new in 1967 and have =
never=20
        thought of it as a collectible or investment.&nbsp;&nbsp; Still =
with the=20
        recent escalation in apparent values, I do not want to be stupid =
about=20
        insurance.</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>Anyone else on the List that might be of a similar mind as =
me and=20
        own their Tiger for the enjoyment of driving it can =
bring?&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
        If so what do you do for insurance?</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>TIA,</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>Gene</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV>
        =
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>________________________________________=
_______<BR><BR><A=20
        title=3Dmailto:[email-masked] =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
        target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A><BR><BR>Donate: <A=20
        title=3Dhttp://www.team.net/donate.html=20
        href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3Dnoreferrer=20
        target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/donate.html</A><BR>Archive: =
<A=20
        title=3Dhttp://www.team.net/archive =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"=20
        rel=3Dnoreferrer =
target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/archive</A><BR>Forums:=20
        <A title=3Dhttp://www.team.net/forums =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums"=20
        rel=3Dnoreferrer=20
        target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/forums</A><BR>Unsubscribe: =
<A=20
        =
title=3Dhttp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]=
m=20
        =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]=
m"=20
        rel=3Dnoreferrer=20
        =
target=3D_blank>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman@=
gmail.com</A><BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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--===============4786322033303774195==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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[email-masked]

--===============4786322033303774195==--

---

From: CoolVT--- via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 12:41:39 -0400

--===============8502488499012312306==

--part1_12b087.39972b96.430df4c2_boundary
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Language: en

If you are worried about liability and have all your coverage with  one=20
company....your vehicles and your house, ask about an Umbrella Policy for=
 =20
libability. You can get an umbrella to go to any maximum that you wish and=
 it =20
will kick in at an agreed upon stage. With an umbrella you can then lower=
=20
your  coverage on your house and vehicles.  Ask your agent about this and=
 you =20
might save a few bucks.
=20
=20
In a message dated 8/25/2015 12:31:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =20
[email-masked] writes:

=20
=20
While this discussion regards collision I think the greater concern would=
 =20
be liability. I mean, yea, eating $50K on a damaged Tiger is a loss, but=
=20
being  liable for hundreds of thousands of dollars (or more) is a far grea=
ter =20
risk.  That said I think liability would be full time =E2=80=93 regardless=
,  because=20
anytime of the day someone could steal your car and create havoc. So,  I=
 can
=E2=80=99t see how =E2=80=9Cuse=E2=80=9D would not cover liability under=
 any circumstance.  =20
Through my collector insurance (20+ years) I was told that 2,500 max miles=
,  not=20
a daily driver and in their words =E2=80=9Can occasional Sunday drive=E2=
=80=9D (not =20
limited to Sunday) is OK. The persons parting words were, =E2=80=9CJust do=
n=E2=80=99t drive it =20
to work.=E2=80=9D
=20
  I have three lesser =E2=80=9Ccollector=E2=80=9D cars. They are valued at=
 $3,000  each. I=20
don=E2=80=99t think I put more than 250 miles on anyone of them in a year.=
  Neither=20
my wife, kids, nor anyone else have ever driven them. In my opinion =20
driving them to the store for parts, to eliminate flats spots in tires, co=
ok  off=20
condensation etc. are all part of what is necessary for =E2=80=9Cmaintaini=
ng=E2=80=9D the =20
car.  Frankly I find what is termed =E2=80=9Cuse=E2=80=9D is rather ambigu=
ously stated. =20
Stated in a way to control your driving, but wonder how it holds up in  co=
urt.=20
 Sort of like the parent that threatens to beat the daylights out  of you=
=20
regarding your behavior =E2=80=93 but legally can=E2=80=99t do so. Again,=
 I=E2=80=99m more  looking=20
at the liability side of insurance. I doubt I=E2=80=99d ever put a claim=
 in on  a=20
$3,000 car.=20
=20
=20

=20
=20
From: _CoolVT--- via Tigers_ (mailto:[email-masked]) =20
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 2:36 PM
To: [email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked])  ;=20
[email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked]) =20
Cc: [email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked]) =20
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fwd: Driven Tger nsurance

=20

=20
I think it makes a big difference on where you are located. I pay  State=
=20
Farm $202 for a stated value, classic car policy.  This is in  Vermont whe=
re=20
the rates are more reasonable than a highly populated  area.  For example=
=20
I've been quoted prices from State Farm on another  vehicle in both Vermon=
t and=20
Florida. The Florida quote was almost double the  VT quote.
=20
=20
In a message dated 8/24/2015 5:26:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =20
[email-masked] writes:

=20
I had to get an appraiser's stated value in writing that cost me $275, =20
that valued the car at 52.5, the writer for Commerce said they would only=
 =20
insure the car for 48 with a 500 deductible. If you want the freedom to us=
e  the=20
car it's gonna cost ya.
  Jeff

=20

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 6:50 PM, Stu via Tigers <[email-masked]=
=20
(mailto:[email-masked]) > wrote:

I just went through  this, and Hagerty seemed a little more liberal than=
=20
Grundy.  Their  use restrictions mostly fit my use model.  Occasional plea=
sure=20
 drives, car shows, cruise nights, maybe to a family party to show off, =
=20
rarely to work (once in the last year and a half), all the family at home=
 =20
have their own cars, no family under 25 who know how to drive a stick,  ev=
ening=20
or weekend drives to try to track down that pesky problem, and so  on. =20
>From what their stuff says, these would be mostly OK.
=20
Stu

=20

=20
=20
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Jay Laifman via Tigers =20
<[email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked]) > wrote:

=20
I have had the same issue - this is also for my early 911  and 912.  There=
=20
are a number of issues with all the classic car  policies.  As you've note=
d,=20
it can't be your daily driver.   Not only that, you have to have a car tha=
t=20
is at least 15 years old for  all drivers in the house.  My 2000 Boxster,=
=20
which is still like new  isn't good enough. One company said I might be ab=
le=20
to get a waiver of  this one.  Some said there is no waiver.   =20

Another issue is that no one under 25 can drive the  car.   So if my son=
=20
and I drive to a car show, he can't drive  at all.  I kind of get it.  But=
,=20
life's too short not to enjoy  these cars with my kids here and now.
=20
Another issue is that you can use it to go to work once and a  while.  But=
=20
that is on a rare occasion when you are doing something  else.  So if you=
=20
want to drive it every Friday or a week here and  there, you won't be cove=
red.=20
 That means NO coverage.  Some of  them were really strict on this - like=
=20
if you get in an accident on a  Wednesday morning at 7:00 am on your route=
 to=20
work, don't expect getting  coverage for the accident without a huge fight=
.
=20
One of the places, and I think it was Grundy's, I asked if I could  stop=
 at=20
a hardware store on the weekends.  She gasped and recounted  how she saw=
 a=20
Ferrari parked at the far end of a Home Depot over the  weekend and though=
t=20
to herself that she sure hopes she doesn't insure  that car!  Geeze, reall=
y?=20
 Us car guys can't stop at a  hardware store and park at the far end? =20
That's a show stopper for  me. Note some others said it was ok if it was=
 part of=20
a joy ride and not  a weekend errand drive.
=20
Believe me, I called EVERY ONE of the companies and asked them all  the=20
same questions.  They all basically gave the same  answers.  Yes, you can=
 get=20
their insurance and figure they will  never know.  And they may give half=
=20
answers about how they cover  various things.  But, if you really put them=
 to=20
specific questions,  they don't give good answers. =20
=20
I get it.  They have to evaluate their risk and what they want  to insure.=
 =20
They want to insure parade cars and joy ride cars, and  will take the risk=
=20
for a restaurant with your wife here and there.   That's not me, and never=
=20
will be. =20
=20
I guess you can look at it another way too.  I have not paid  more than=20
$10k for any of my cars.  So in one way, if something bad  happened, I wou=
ld be=20
out only $10k plus the expenses over the  years.  I know, two of these car=
s=20
are probably (definitely?) worth  over $100k in investment terms.  So I=20
could lose much more in  paper.  I don't like looking at it this way, but=
 it is=20
a way to  rationalize it.
=20
Right now, I do a lot of self insurance by being especially careful  where=
=20
I park the cars, how long I am away from them, how well they are  locked=
 up,=20
etc.  It's not perfect.  But, I'd rather be  underinsured than have NO=20
insurance because I have a classic policy and  I'm using it to actually dr=
ive.
=20
Jay
=20
=20
=20
=20

=20

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:59 PM, genepadgett---  via Tigers=20
<[email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked]) > wrote:

=20

=20
=20
I did not see this post to my own e-mail and am thinking that  somehow it=
=20
did not go through.  I am re-sending it in hopes that  it will go through=
=20
this time.   Confirmation of receipt from  anyone on the List would be=20
appreciated.
=20
TIA,   Gene
=20
=20
____________________________________
From:  [email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked])=20
To: "tigers"  <[email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked]) >
Sent: Friday,  August 21, 2015 12:28:53 PM
Subject: Driven Tger  nsurance

Hi All,
=20
With the recent jump in auction prices for our cars, I am  wondering what=
=20
people like me who just enjoy driving their cars are  doing for insurance.=
  =20
I just got turned down by Grundy  because the "vehicle cannot be used as=
=20
backup, primary or secondary  transportation".   This dispite the fact bot=
h my=20
wife and I  have other cars which serve as our regular daily driver =20
vehicles.
=20
To me, being able to take the Tiger out when and where I want to  go is th=
e=20
essence of having and enjoying the car in the first  place.   It is the=20
journey not the destination that matters  to me.    I bought the car new=
 in=20
1967 and have never  thought of it as a collectible or investment.   Still=
 with=20
 the recent escalation in apparent values, I do not want to be stupid =20
about insurance.
=20
Anyone else on the List that might be of a similar mind as me and  own=20
their Tiger for the enjoyment of driving it can bring?    If so what do yo=
u do=20
for insurance?
=20
TIA,
=20
Gene
=20

=20

=20

[email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked])=20

Unsubscribe:=20

[email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked])=20

Unsubscribe: =20

[email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked])=20

Unsubscribe:=20

[email-masked]

=20

[email-masked]

Unsubscribe: =20

[email-masked]

--part1_12b087.39972b96.430df4c2_boundary
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Language: en

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-8" http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.9600.17963"></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR:=
 #000000"=20
bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Dr=
ole_document=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D3 face=3DArial>
<DIV><STRONG>If you are worried about liability and have all your coverage=
 with=20
one company....your vehicles and your house, ask about an Umbrella Policy=
 for=20
libability. You can get an umbrella to go to any maximum that you wish and=
 it=20
will kick in at an agreed upon stage. With an umbrella you can then lower=
 your=20
coverage on your house and vehicles.&nbsp; Ask your agent about this and=
 you=20
might save a few bucks.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 8/25/2015 12:31:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20
[email-masked] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"=
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3D=
Arial>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
  <DIV>While this discussion regards collision I think the greater concern=
 would=20
  be liability. I mean, yea, eating $50K on a damaged Tiger is a loss, but=
 being=20
  liable for hundreds of thousands of dollars (or more) is a far greater=
=20
  risk.&nbsp; That said I think liability would be full time =E2=80=93 reg=
ardless,=20
  because anytime of the day someone could steal your car and create havoc=
. So,=20
  I can=E2=80=99t see how =E2=80=9Cuse=E2=80=9D would not cover liability=
 under any circumstance.&nbsp;=20
  Through my collector insurance (20+ years) I was told that 2,500 max mil=
es,=20
  not a daily driver and in their words =E2=80=9Can occasional Sunday driv=
e=E2=80=9D (not=20
  limited to Sunday) is OK. The persons parting words were, =E2=80=9CJust=
 don=E2=80=99t drive it=20
  to work.=E2=80=9D</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp; I have three lesser =E2=80=9Ccollector=E2=80=9D cars. They=
 are valued at $3,000=20
  each. I don=E2=80=99t think I put more than 250 miles on anyone of them=
 in a year.=20
  Neither my wife, kids, nor anyone else have ever driven them. In my opin=
ion=20
  driving them to the store for parts, to eliminate flats spots in tires,=
 cook=20
  off condensation etc. are all part of what is necessary for =E2=80=9Cmai=
ntaining=E2=80=9D the=20
  car.&nbsp; Frankly I find what is termed =E2=80=9Cuse=E2=80=9D is rather=
 ambiguously stated.=20
  Stated in a way to control your driving, but wonder how it holds up in=
=20
  court.&nbsp; Sort of like the parent that threatens to beat the daylight=
s out=20
  of you regarding your behavior =E2=80=93 but legally can=E2=80=99t do so=
. Again, I=E2=80=99m more=20
  looking at the liability side of insurance. I doubt I=E2=80=99d ever put=
 a claim in on=20
  a $3,000 car. </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"=
; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline=
'></DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
  <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
  <DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
  title=3Dmailto:[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">CoolVT--- via Tigers</A> </DIV>
  <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 24, 2015 2:36 PM</DIV>
  <DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dmailto:[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> ;=
 <A=20
  title=3Dmailto:[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> </DIV>
  <DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dmailto:[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> </DIV>
  <DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Tigers] Fwd: Driven Tger nsurance</DIV></DIV><=
/DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"=
; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline=
'><FONT=20
  color=3D#000000 size=3D3 face=3DArial>
  <DIV><STRONG>I think it makes a big difference on where you are located.=
 I pay=20
  State Farm $202 for a stated value, classic car policy.&nbsp; This is in=
=20
  Vermont where the rates are more reasonable than a highly populated=20
  area.&nbsp; For example I've been quoted prices from State Farm on anoth=
er=20
  vehicle in both Vermont and Florida. The Florida quote was almost double=
 the=20
  VT quote.</STRONG></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>In a message dated 8/24/2015 5:26:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20
  [email-masked] writes:</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px soli=
d"><FONT=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=
=3DArial>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr>
    <DIV>I had to get an appraiser's stated value in writing that cost me=
 $275,=20
    that valued the car at 52.5, the writer for Commerce said they would=
 only=20
    insure the car for 48 with a 500 deductible. If you want the freedom=
 to use=20
    the car it's gonna cost ya.</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp; Jeff</DIV></DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_extra>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 6:50 PM, Stu via Tige=
rs <SPAN=20
    dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A title=3Dmailto:[email-masked]=20
    href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
    target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #c=
cc 1px solid">
      <DIV dir=3Dltr>
      <DIV class=3Dgmail_default style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small">I just went th=
rough=20
      this, and Hagerty seemed a little more liberal than Grundy.&nbsp; Th=
eir=20
      use restrictions mostly fit my use model.&nbsp; Occasional pleasure=
=20
      drives, car shows, cruise nights, maybe to a family party to show of=
f,=20
      rarely to work (once in the last year and a half), all the family at=
 home=20
      have their own cars, no family under 25 who know how to drive a stic=
k,=20
      evening or weekend drives to try to track down that pesky problem,=
 and so=20
      on.&nbsp; From what their stuff says, these would be mostly OK.</DIV=
      <DIV class=3Dgmail_default style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small">&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV class=3Dgmail_default style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small">Stu</DIV></DIV=
      <DIV class=3Dgmail_extra>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>
      <DIV>
      <DIV class=3Dh5>On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Jay Laifman via Tig=
ers=20
      <SPAN dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A title=3Dmailto:[email-masked]=20
      href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
      target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR></DIV=
></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
      style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT:=
 rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
        <DIV>
        <DIV class=3Dh5>
        <DIV dir=3Dltr>I have had the same issue - this is also for my ear=
ly 911=20
        and 912.&nbsp; There are a number of issues with all the classic=
 car=20
        policies.&nbsp; As you've noted, it can't be your daily driver.&nb=
sp;=20
        Not only that, you have to have a car that is at least 15 years ol=
d for=20
        all drivers in the house.&nbsp; My 2000 Boxster, which is still li=
ke new=20
        isn't good enough. One company said I might be able to get a waive=
r of=20
        this one.&nbsp; Some said there is no waiver.&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>Another issue is that no one under 25 can drive the=20
        car.&nbsp;&nbsp; So if my son and I drive to a car show, he can't=
 drive=20
        at all.&nbsp; I kind of get it.&nbsp; But, life's too short not to=
 enjoy=20
        these cars with my kids here and now.</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>Another issue is that you can use it to go to work once and=
 a=20
        while.&nbsp; But that is on a rare occasion when you are doing som=
ething=20
        else.&nbsp; So if you want to drive it every Friday or a week here=
 and=20
        there, you won't be covered.&nbsp; That means NO coverage.&nbsp;=
 Some of=20
        them were really strict on this - like if you get in an accident=
 on a=20
        Wednesday morning at 7:00 am on your route to work, don't expect=
 getting=20
        coverage for the accident without a huge fight.</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>One of the places, and I think it was Grundy's, I asked if I=
 could=20
        stop at a hardware store on the weekends.&nbsp; She gasped and rec=
ounted=20
        how she saw a Ferrari parked at the far end of a Home Depot over=
 the=20
        weekend and thought to herself that she sure hopes she doesn't ins=
ure=20
        that car!&nbsp; Geeze, really?&nbsp; Us car guys can't stop at a=
=20
        hardware store and park at the far end?&nbsp; That's a show stoppe=
r for=20
        me. Note some others said it was ok if it was part of a joy ride=
 and not=20
        a weekend errand drive.</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>Believe me, I called EVERY ONE of the companies and asked the=
m all=20
        the same questions.&nbsp; They all basically gave the same=20
        answers.&nbsp; Yes, you can get their insurance and figure they wi=
ll=20
        never know.&nbsp; And they may give half answers about how they co=
ver=20
        various things.&nbsp; But, if you really put them to specific ques=
tions,=20
        they don't give good answers.&nbsp; </DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>I get it.&nbsp; They have to evaluate their risk and what the=
y want=20
        to insure.&nbsp; They want to insure parade cars and joy ride cars=
, and=20
        will take the risk for a restaurant with your wife here and there.=
&nbsp;=20
        That's not me, and never will be.&nbsp; </DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>I guess you can look at it another way too.&nbsp; I have not=
 paid=20
        more than $10k for any of my cars.&nbsp; So in one way, if somethi=
ng bad=20
        happened, I would be out only $10k plus the expenses over the=20
        years.&nbsp; I know, two of these cars are probably (definitely?)=
 worth=20
        over $100k in investment terms.&nbsp; So I could lose much more in=
=20
        paper.&nbsp; I don't like looking at it this way, but it is a way=
 to=20
        rationalize it.</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>Right now, I do a lot of self insurance by being especially=
 careful=20
        where I park the cars, how long I am away from them, how well they=
 are=20
        locked up, etc.&nbsp; It's not perfect.&nbsp; But, I'd rather be=
=20
        underinsured than have NO insurance because I have a classic polic=
y and=20
        I'm using it to actually drive.</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>Jay</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
        <DIV class=3Dgmail_extra>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:59 PM, genepadg=
ett---=20
        via Tigers <SPAN dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A title=3Dmailto:[email-masked]=
.net=20
        href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
        target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
        <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
        style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT=
: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
          <DIV>
          <DIV=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman; COLOR:=
 rgb(0,0,0)">
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: he=
lvetica,arial,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STY=
LE: normal">
          <DIV=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman; COLOR:=
 rgb(0,0,0)">
          <DIV>I did not see this post to my own e-mail and am thinking th=
at=20
          somehow it did not go through.&nbsp; I am re-sending it in hopes=
 that=20
          it will go through this time.&nbsp;&nbsp; Confirmation of receip=
t from=20
          anyone on the List would be appreciated.</DIV>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV>TIA,&nbsp;&nbsp; Gene</DIV>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <HR>

          <DIV=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: he=
lvetica,arial,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STY=
LE: normal"><B>From:=20
          </B><A title=3Dmailto:[email-masked]=20
          href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
          target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A><BR><B>To: </B>"tiger=
s"=20
          &lt;<A title=3Dmailto:[email-masked]=20
          href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
          target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A>&gt;<BR><B>Sent: </B>Fr=
iday,=20
          August 21, 2015 12:28:53 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Driven Tger=20
nsurance<BR>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman; COLOR:=
 rgb(0,0,0)">
          <DIV>Hi All,</DIV>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV>With the recent jump in auction prices for our cars, I am=
=20
          wondering what people like me who just enjoy driving their cars=
 are=20
          doing for insurance.&nbsp;&nbsp; I just got turned down by Grund=
y=20
          because the "vehicle cannot be used as backup, primary or second=
ary=20
          transportation".&nbsp;&nbsp; This dispite the fact both my wife=
 and I=20
          have other cars which serve as our regular daily driver=20
vehicles.</DIV>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV>To me, being able to take the Tiger out when and where I wa=
nt to=20
          go is the essence of having and enjoying the car in the first=20
          place.&nbsp;&nbsp; It is the journey not the destination that ma=
tters=20
          to me.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I bought the car new in 1967 and have=
 never=20
          thought of it as a collectible or investment.&nbsp;&nbsp; Still=
 with=20
          the recent escalation in apparent values, I do not want to be st=
upid=20
          about insurance.</DIV>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV>Anyone else on the List that might be of a similar mind as=
 me and=20
          own their Tiger for the enjoyment of driving it can bring?&nbsp;=
&nbsp;=20
          If so what do you do for insurance?</DIV>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV>TIA,</DIV>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV>Gene</DIV>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________=
________________<BR><BR><A=20
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