Subject: [Tigers] Running hot... new 5.0

From: Samouce's via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 08:39:47 -0500

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Check - 

#1 Thermostat

#2  wire coil in lower radiator hose

#3  do NOT use a high flow water pump

Duke

From: Tigers [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Armacost,
Don Jr. via Tigers
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 4:39 PM
To: Theo Smit
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Running hot... new 5.0

I had this happen to me with one of my street rods.  Problem turned out to
be a burr on the thermostat that would stop it from cycling and cause a heat
rise. Pressure would build and blow it open and temp would drop and then it
would stick again and temp  would rise again.  Suggest you check and replace
the thermostat.  

Don Armacost Jr

President -CEO

Peterson Manufacturing Co.

816-765-2000

[email-masked]

On Jun 13, 2015, at 4:35 PM, Theo Smit via Tigers <[email-masked]>
wrote:

Hi all, 

Fired up the new 5.0 this morning and it seems to be OK for temperature for
a while (around 180 on the gauge), then suddenly the gauge takes off to the
right, 200 plus degrees, and it will start spitting out of the radiator cap
vent. Shutting the engine down for a few minutes and then firing it back up
gives normal-ish temperatures again. This happens out on the road as well -
I've managed a couple of 15 minute test drives but several times had the
temperature suddenly rise under light load (50-60 mph with some
accelerations).

It's a Ford Motorsport X302D, with Edelbrock water pump and Griffin aluminum
radiator, 14" stainless flex fan with shroud. The engine shipped with a
Holley Street Avenger carb and MSD distributor so that's what is on it. 32
or 34 degrees total advance, I put in the medium springs so it's all in by
about 3000 RPM.

Any ideas? I'm hoping it's just localized air pockets that will burp their
way out but it would be nice to get away from the ragged edge of puking
green stuff. Still planning to bring it to TU next weekend but I'm
trailering to get there.

Thanks,

Theo

_______________________________________________

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Check - <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>#1 =
Thermostat<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>#2&nbsp; wire coil in lower radiator =
hose<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>#3 &nbsp;do NOT use a high flow water =
pump<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Duke<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal'><b><=
span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Tigers [<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:tigers-bounces@autox=
.team.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Armacost, Don Jr. via =
Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 13, 2015 4:39 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Theo Smit<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Sub=
ject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Running hot... new =
5.0<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I had this happen to me with one of my =
street rods. &nbsp;Problem turned out to be a burr on the thermostat =
that would stop it from cycling and cause a heat rise. Pressure would =
build and blow it open and temp would drop and then it would stick again =
and temp &nbsp;would rise again. &nbsp;Suggest you check and replace the =
thermostat. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Don Armacost =
Jr<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>President -CEO<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Peterson Manufacturing Co.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'><a =
href=3D"tel:816-765-2000">816-765-2000</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></span=
><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On Jun 13, 2015, at =
4:35 PM, Theo Smit via Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-seri=
f";color:black'>Hi all, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-seri=
f";color:black'>Fired up the new 5.0 this morning and it seems to be OK =
for temperature for a while (around 180 on the gauge), then suddenly the =
gauge takes off to the right, 200 plus degrees, and it will start =
spitting out of the radiator cap vent. Shutting the engine down for a =
few minutes and then firing it back up gives normal-ish temperatures =
again. This happens out on the road as well - I've managed a couple of =
15 minute test drives but several times had the temperature suddenly =
rise under light load (50-60 mph with some =
accelerations).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-seri=
f";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-seri=
f";color:black'>It's a Ford Motorsport X302D, with Edelbrock water pump =
and Griffin aluminum radiator, 14&quot; stainless flex fan with shroud. =
The engine shipped with a Holley Street Avenger carb and MSD distributor =
so that's what is on it. 32 or 34 degrees total advance, I put in the =
medium springs so it's all in by about 3000 =
RPM.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-seri=
f";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-seri=
f";color:black'>Any ideas? I'm hoping it's just localized air pockets =
that will burp their way out but it would be nice to get away from the =
ragged edge of puking green stuff. Still planning to bring it to TU next =
weekend but I'm trailering to get =
there.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-seri=
f";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-seri=
f";color:black'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-seri=
f";color:black'>Theo<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________________________________=
_____<br><br><a =
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ubscribe: <a =
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Manufacturing and subsidiaries. Although Peterson Manufacturing and =
subsidiaries has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are =
present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any =
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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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From: Tom Parker via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 14:22:02 -0400

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Good call Duke!

Make sure there's a wire coil in the lower radiator hose. It'll collapse if
the coil isn't there. (learned that'un in 1962 on a '57 Ford...)

Tom
'67 Mark 2

On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Samouce's via Tigers <[email-masked]=
t

> *From:* Tigers [mailto:[email-masked]
> <[email-masked]>] *On Behalf Of *Armacost, Don Jr. via
> Tigers
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 13, 2015 4:39 PM
> *To:* Theo Smit
> *Cc:* [email-masked]
> *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] Running hot... new 5.0
>
>
>
> I had this happen to me with one of my street rods.  Problem turned out t=
o
> be a burr on the thermostat that would stop it from cycling and cause a
> heat rise. Pressure would build and blow it open and temp would drop and
> then it would stick again and temp  would rise again.  Suggest you check
> and replace the thermostat.
>
>
>
>
>
> Don Armacost Jr
>
> President -CEO
>
> Fired up the new 5.0 this morning and it seems to be OK for temperature
> for a while (around 180 on the gauge), then suddenly the gauge takes off =
to
> the right, 200 plus degrees, and it will start spitting out of the radiat=
or
> cap vent. Shutting the engine down for a few minutes and then firing it
> back up gives normal-ish temperatures again. This happens out on the road
> as well - I've managed a couple of 15 minute test drives but several time=
s
> had the temperature suddenly rise under light load (50-60 mph with some
> accelerations).
>
>
>
> It's a Ford Motorsport X302D, with Edelbrock water pump and Griffin
> aluminum radiator, 14" stainless flex fan with shroud. The engine shipped
> with a Holley Street Avenger carb and MSD distributor so that's what is o=
n
> it. 32 or 34 degrees total advance, I put in the medium springs so it's a=
ll
> in by about 3000 RPM.
>
>
>
> Any ideas? I'm hoping it's just localized air pockets that will burp thei=
r
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> *This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the Recipient. If you are not the named addressee you
> should not disseminate, distribute, copy or alter this email. Any views o=
r
> opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and might
> not represent those of Peterson Manufacturing and subsidiaries. Although
> Peterson Manufacturing and subsidiaries has taken reasonable precautions =
to
> responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email =
or
> attachments.*
>   =C2=AD=C2=AD
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Good call Duke!=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Make sure there&#=
39;s a wire coil in the lower radiator hose. It&#39;ll collapse if the coil=
 isn&#39;t there. (learned that&#39;un in 1962 on a &#39;57 Ford...)</div><=
div><br></div><div>Tom</div><div>&#39;67 Mark 2</div></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 9:39 AM, =
Samouce&#39;s via Tigers <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tigers@aut=
ox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<=
br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=
=3D"purple"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Check=
 - <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f=
497d">#1 Thermostat<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"color:#1f497d">#2=C2=A0 wire coil in lower radiator hose<u></u><u></=
u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">#3 =C2=A0=
do NOT use a high flow water pump<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Duke<u></u><u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></s=
pan></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;paddi=
ng:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;"> Tigers [<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"=
_blank">mailto:[email-masked]</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Armac=
ost, Don Jr. via Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 13, 2015 4:39 PM<br>=
<b>To:</b> Theo Smit<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers=
] Running hot... new 5.0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margi=
n-bottom:12.0pt">I had this happen to me with one of my street rods.=C2=A0 =
Problem turned out to be a burr on the thermostat that would stop it from c=
ycling and cause a heat rise. Pressure would build and blow it open and tem=
p would drop and then it would stick again and temp =C2=A0would rise again.=
=C2=A0 Suggest you check and replace the thermostat. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=
=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Don Armacost Jr<u></u><u></u></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">President -CEO<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal">Peterson Manufacturing Co.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"tel:816-765-2000" target=3D"_blank">816=
-765-2000</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-b=
ottom:12.0pt"><br>On Jun 13, 2015, at 4:35 PM, Theo Smit via Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
et</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.=
0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-b=
ottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;line-heigh=
t:115%;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi=
 all, <u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:black">Fired up the new 5.0 this morning and it seems to b=
e OK for temperature for a while (around 180 on the gauge), then suddenly t=
he gauge takes off to the right, 200 plus degrees, and it will start spitti=
ng out of the radiator cap vent. Shutting the engine down for a few minutes=
 and then firing it back up gives normal-ish temperatures again. This happe=
ns out on the road as well - I&#39;ve managed a couple of 15 minute test dr=
ives but several times had the temperature suddenly rise under light load (=
50-60 mph with some accelerations).<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>=
</u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:black">It&#39;s a Ford Motorsport X302D, with Edelbrock water pump a=
nd Griffin aluminum radiator, 14&quot; stainless flex fan with shroud. The =
engine shipped with a Holley Street Avenger carb and MSD distributor so tha=
t&#39;s what is on it. 32 or 34 degrees total advance, I put in the medium =
springs so it&#39;s all in by about 3000 RPM.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;line-height:11=
5%;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:black">Any ideas? I&#39;m hoping it&#39;s just localized a=
ir pockets that will burp their way out but it would be nice to get away fr=
om the ragged edge of puking green stuff. Still planning to bring it to TU =
next weekend but I&#39;m trailering to get there.<u></u><u></u></span></p><=
/div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;line-heigh=
t:115%;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u=
></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-f=
amily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Theo<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-to=
p:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bo=
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Theo Smit via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 17:51:01 -0600 (MDT)

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Hi all, 

Thanks again for all the good suggestions. 
The lower rad hose coil is a must. The previous one had become pretty sketchy even prior to the engine replacement so I had already replaced the coil with some 1/16" stainless welding rod wound in a coil. Next time around I'll source a whole new hose and make sure it includes the coil (some hoses don't...) 
As I noted yesterday I replaced the 180 with a 160 thermostat and checked both of them in a pan... dunno about absolute temps (as noted by Stu, IR thermometers are sensitive to what material they're reading and I haven't gone and checked the IR emissivity of water) but the 180 was definitely opening way later. 
Darrell's note about air pockets led me to make and put an air bleed fitting in the water heater inlet hose. And using that, I discovered that my heater valve actually doesn't flow anything when it's only half open... the heater was still dry. 

So with all this new technology it now steadies out at 180 on the gauge even after exploring the power band a little more extensively (should have put the IR thermometer on it but that slipped my mind). Very promising stuff! 

Cheers and hopefully I'll see some of you next weekend, 
Theo 

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<html><head><style type=3D'text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><=
div style=3D'font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; colo=
r: #000000'>Hi all,<div><br>Thanks again for all the good suggestions.&nbsp=
;</div><div>The lower rad hose coil is a must. The previous one had become =
pretty sketchy even prior to the engine replacement so I had already replac=
ed the coil with some 1/16" stainless welding rod wound in a coil. Next tim=
e around I'll source a whole new hose and make sure it includes the coil (s=
ome hoses don't...)</div><div>As I noted yesterday I replaced the 180 with =
a 160 thermostat and checked both of them in a pan... dunno about absolute =
temps (as noted by Stu, IR thermometers are sensitive to what material they=
're reading and I haven't gone and checked the IR emissivity of water) but =
the 180 was definitely opening way later.</div><div>Darrell's note about ai=
r pockets led me to make and put an air bleed fitting in the water heater i=
nlet hose. And using that, I discovered that my heater valve actually doesn=
't flow anything when it's only half open... the heater was still dry.</div=
><div><br></div><div>So with all this new technology it now steadies out at=
 180 on the gauge even after exploring the power band a little more extensi=
vely (should have put the IR thermometer on it but that slipped my mind). V=
ery promising stuff!</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers and hopefully I'll see=
 some of you next weekend,</div><div>Theo</div><div><div style=3D"color:#00=
0;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Hel=
vetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"><br></div></div></div></body></htm=
l>
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[email-masked]

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