Subject: Re: [Tigers] FW: motorsport x 302 crate motor

From: "Smit, Theo via Tigers" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 03:36:19 +0000

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Well I hope that=92s not a common problem because I=92m pretty much ready t=
o put one of those in my Tiger=85 I will be swapping the pan in the next co=
uple of days and I will look out for any strange machining leftovers.

Theo

Date: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 at 6:39 PM
Subject: [Tigers] FW: motorsport x 302 crate motor

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<div>Well I hope that=92s not a common problem because I=92m pretty much re=
ady to put one of those in my Tiger=85 I will be swapping the pan in the ne=
xt couple of days and I will look out for any strange machining leftovers.<=
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<div>Theo</div>
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<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Tigers List &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>Nick &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, April 14, 2015 at 6:=
39 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Tigers List &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[Tigers] FW: motorsport x =
302 crate motor<br>
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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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From: Mark Rense via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:03:20 -0400

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Nick, as an engine builder I have seen a general deterioration of component
quality in the after market as more manufacturers outsource. Lifters are
one of those components, I stopped using CompCams because I've had bad
hydraulic lifters from them more than once. You could have a bad hyd.
lifter or bad roller rocker.

Piston scuffing at low miles is caused by clearance issues combined with
heat and/or lack of lube.  I would be very suspicious of the pan clearance
and your oil pickup location/screen since you have had two separate
incidents. Scuff marks on the piston's edges or corners of the thrust side
is probably bore distortion. If it is scuffed on both sides then lube is
the main suspect, check the piston wrist pin as it may have seized.

The Ford 302 you bought is a rebuild, not a fresh block or rotating
assembly, and you are not the the first to have issues with one of these.
Their strokers and race engines are built in-house, I'll bet the 340hp 302
is not.

I've got three 5-bolt 289 blocks left. How about a nice drop-in 331?

Bugz

On Tuesday, April 14, 2015, Nick via Tigers <[email-masked]> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> *From:* Nick [mailto:[email-masked]
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[email-masked]');>]
> *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2015 8:03 PM
> *To:* 'Andy Walker'
> *Subject:* motorsport x 302 crate motor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I am helping a friend with a Tiger we are reassembling after 10+ years of
> being off the road. We purchased a 302/340hp engine from Ford Motorsport =
to
> install in this application. We installed the engine without difficulties
> with a front sump oil pan, new pickup and right angle oil filter from
> motorsports.  It has a air gap manifold, 600cfm Edelbrock  and a pertroni=
x
> dizzy. The engine started and  broke in without issues but after about
> seven miles on the road it developed a knock. Dropping the oil pan we
> discovered the #2 piston was scuffed around the skirt. Sent it back and
> Ford replaced with another block claiming they couldn=E2=80=99t determine=
 what the
> cause was.  The new engine we had broken in by a local speed shop and
> dynoed.  It put out 320 Hp which we expected.  Reinstalled the engine and
> after about 20 miles on the road it developed what sounds like a lifter
> tapping. With great difficulty we removed the valve covers and started th=
e
> engine.  Everything on the top end looks and feels perfect but we still
> have the tapping. Put the engine back together and installed another set =
of
> exhaust headers with copper gaskets and the proper sealer thinking we
> possibly could have a cracked header or leak. The problem persists and I =
am
> afraid we may find another scuffed piston. The oil pressure has never
> dropped below 20# even at idle.
>
> Has anyone out there experienced a similar problem with these engines of
> have a suggestion as to what our issues may be. ? The people at Ford
> Motorsports are scratching their heads!
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Kintner
>
> Florida
>

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Nick, as an engine builder I have seen a general deterioration of component=
 quality in the after market as more manufacturers outsource. Lifters are o=
ne of those components, I stopped using CompCams because I&#39;ve had bad h=
ydraulic lifters from them more than once. You could have a=C2=A0bad hyd. l=
ifter or bad roller rocker.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Piston scuffing at low=
 miles=C2=A0is caused by clearance issues combined with heat and/or lack of=
 lube.=C2=A0 I would be very suspicious of the pan clearance and your oil p=
ickup location/screen=C2=A0since you have had two separate incidents. Scuff=
 marks on the piston&#39;s=C2=A0edges or corners of the thrust side is prob=
ably bore distortion. If it is scuffed on both sides then lube is the main =
suspect, check the=C2=A0piston wrist pin as it=C2=A0may have seized.<br><di=
v><br></div><div>The Ford 302 you bought is a rebuild, not a fresh block or=
 rotating assembly, and you are not the the first to have issues with one o=
f these.=C2=A0 Their strokers and race engines are built in-house, I&#39;ll=
 bet the 340hp 302 is not.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;ve got thre=
e 5-bolt 289 blocks left. How about a nice drop-in 331?</div><div><br></div=
><div>Bugz=C2=A0<br><br>On Tuesday, April 14, 2015, Nick via Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlin=
k=3D"#954F72"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u>=
</u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f=
497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-=
top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Nick [mailto:<a href=3D"javascri=
pt:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;[email-masked]&#39;);" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email-masked]</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 13, 2015 8:03 PM<=
br><b>To:</b> &#39;Andy Walker&#39;<br><b>Subject:</b> motorsport x 302 cra=
te motor<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f49=
7d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"co=
lor:#1f497d">I am helping a friend with a Tiger we are reassembling after 1=
0+ years of being off the road. We purchased a 302/340hp engine from Ford M=
otorsport to install in this application. We installed the engine without d=
ifficulties with a front sump oil pan, new pickup and right angle oil filte=
r from motorsports.=C2=A0 It has a air gap manifold, 600cfm Edelbrock =C2=
=A0and a pertronix dizzy. The engine started and =C2=A0broke in without iss=
ues but after about seven miles on the road it developed a knock. Dropping =
the oil pan we discovered the #2 piston was scuffed around the skirt. Sent =
it back and Ford replaced with another block claiming they couldn=E2=80=99t=
 determine what the cause was.=C2=A0 The new engine we had broken in by a l=
ocal speed shop and dynoed.=C2=A0 It put out 320 Hp which we expected.=C2=
=A0 Reinstalled the engine and after about 20 miles on the road it develope=
d what sounds like a lifter tapping. With great difficulty we removed the v=
alve covers and started the engine.=C2=A0 Everything on the top end looks a=
nd feels perfect but we still have the tapping. Put the engine back togethe=
r and installed another set of exhaust headers with copper gaskets and the =
proper sealer thinking we possibly could have a cracked header or leak. The=
 problem persists and I am afraid we may find another scuffed piston. The o=
il pressure has never dropped below 20# even at idle.<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Has anyone out ther=
e experienced a similar problem with these engines of have a suggestion as =
to what our issues may be. ? The people at Ford Motorsports are scratching =
their heads!<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"color:#1f497d">Thanks, <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Nick Kintner<u></u><u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Florida<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: michael king via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 23:42:22 +1000

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IIRC Ford Motorsport stopped selling the new 340hp gt40 crates and are now
all seasoned block 306 motors, this happened in about 2011 or so?

Marks comments about the oil pickup and sump are good points... What pickup
ate you using and where did you get the sump? Original tiger or aftermarket?

--001a113fc0ac4713b90513c38402

<p dir="ltr">IIRC Ford Motorsport stopped selling the new 340hp gt40 crates and are now all seasoned block 306 motors, this happened in about 2011 or so?</p>
<p dir="ltr">Marks comments about the oil pickup and sump are good points... What pickup ate you using and where did you get the sump? Original tiger or aftermarket?<br>
</p>

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From: Nick via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 18:46:31 -0400

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Thank you all for your responses. Motorsport decided they wanted the motor
back to check it out. We yanked it out Tuesday afternoon and it is on the
way to Michigan now with oil pan, water pump, and intake  intact..  I will
let the list know what the results are.

Nick

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style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thank you all for your responses. Motorsport decided they wanted the =
motor back to check it out. We yanked it out Tuesday afternoon and it is =
on the way to Michigan now with oil pan, water pump, and intake =
&nbsp;intact.. &nbsp;I will let the list know what the results =
are.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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