Subject: Re: [Tigers] Manual Transmissions

From: Owain Lloyd <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 17:51:44 +0100

yep.  in europe/UK autos are normally for disabled people only.  if you
take your test in an auto its because you are missing a leg an you're
subsequently only allowed to drive autos.   quite rightly so.   these days
most large luxury cars have autos but when i was young, an auto was not
much different to having 'hand controls'.

however, this discussion isn't really about auto boxes, is it?  the lack of
a clutch pedal doesn't make it an auto, and a sequential box is really not
that much different to a full manual - it certainly doesn't remove any
'functionality'.   you may as well argue that a sports car shouldn't have
electric windows!  in my rally cars i never use the actual clutch pedal
anyway unless i'm starting from a standstill or doing a handbrake turn.  i
quite often find myself doing this on the road in a manual with a regular
synchromesh box too.

i think that in the US, the manual transmission has been seen as something
for a sports car because its so unusual.  The E60 M5 wasn't even sold as a
manual anywhere but the US.  BMW made a special version because americans
associate a clutch pedal with a sports car.  fortunately, they still sold
the (far better) SMG single clutch 7 speed semi automatic.   oddly (and
very annoyingly) enough they also never sold the wagon version because
americans also associate a wagon with a boring family car.

let's kill these superstitions, i say!

On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Scott Hutchinson <[email-masked]>wrote:

> When we take the crew bus from european airports to the hotel, usually a
> Merecedes Sprinter or equivalent. 10+ pax.  It is almost always a stick.
> Diesel as well.
>
> I have seen a dodge caravan diesel manual shift over there.
>
>
> Scott Hutchinson
> Pilot, NetJets Aviation
>
> Mobile 843.290.2805
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Graham Harlowe [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 08:24 AM
> To: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Manual Transmissions
>
> ...."I was even surprised to learn that Ford offers a manual box for the
> latest Fusion, but you have to pester the dealer and swear on your
> childrens
> children that you won't cancel the order once it's placed, and that's a car
> that Ford makes a bunch of(with auto boxes)."
>
> The dominance of automatics seems to be a US/North American phenomenon.
> Manuals are still quite common in Europe where gas is 4x more expensive.  I
> rented a Ford Fusion while on vacation in France that had a 4 cyl diesel
> engine with 6-speed manual.  It even had an "upshift" indicator light to
> optimize gas mileage and when you put the car in neutral while idling at an
> intersection, the engine would shut itself down.  Engaging the clutch to
> put
> the car in gear again would quickly restart the engine.  The first few
> times
> the engine suddenly 'died' in Paris traffic was discomforting.  Getting
> stuck in a 4 hour traffic jam en route to de Gaulle airport made me
> homesick
> for my Volvo automatic.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Graham Harlowe
> B382001466
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From: "Mark Rense" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 13:19:01 -0500

The future of the manual transmission is in doubt for several reasons. The
endless pursuit of better mpg and performance will drive the manufacturers
towards higher gear counts as engines get smaller and narrower in their
power band. As witness, the latest Audi A4 T2.0 went from a six-speed to an
eight-speed and lost a second 0-to-60 as well as gaining a couple MPG. The
sub-liter class engines now coming in small cars, both gas and diesel,
require lots of speeds to keep them on the boil. Traditional automatics had
more power losses than the equivalent manual versions, but today's new
designs with quick lock-up and integrated engine management achieve better
fuel economy than a manual. The CVT transmissions are finally getting close
to manuals in efficiency and cost as well. The dual clutch systems,
potentially the most efficient of all mechanical energy transfer systems,
are expensive to build and manage but are getting cheaper by the day as
volumes go up.

Then there are the social issues. Yes we Americans are fat and lazy and can
barely lift a left leg to push in that nasty clutch pedal, but why should we
in the Land Of Plentiful Petroleum? Our cities are bumper-to-bumper, our
highways are wide open and vast, and who wants or needs a manual in their
minivan? I mean, after all Dude, how can you text your BFF when you have to
bang third in the on-ramp?? 

In the near future efficiency requirements will push the gear count higher.
Really, who will want to row an 8- or 9-speed in the daily grind? I have one
car with a 6-speed and, track days excepted, its hard enough to keep track
of the gear count in mundane daily commuter driving. No, I don't text while
driving!

On top of it all is the newest generation's lack of enthusiasm for cars in
general and sports cars even less so. We all learned to drive stick out of
necessity, I did not own a manual transmission vehicle for the first 23
years of my driving life, the only automatic in the family being Mom's
ubiquitous land-barge station wagon. Today, as previous posters have
mentioned, you are hard-pressed to even find a manual car, and usually they
are the stripped loss-leader versions.

Unfortunately I think the manual transmission will follow the path of the
buggy whip, our great-grandchildren will simply chuckle at the notion. Too
bad for them...

Happy Thanksgiving!
Bugz, waiting for the family to descend upon us for the feast...
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---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 18:54:08 +0000

What still blows my mind is how these dual clutch systems handle creeping stop and go traffic without burning out.

I'm also amazed by the cars that shut off each time you stop.  I could never imagine our old starters and ring gear could ever survive a week of that. 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Mark Rense" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Manual Transmissions

Happy Thanksgiving!

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