Subject: Re: [Tigers] Cobra continuation

From: Cullen McCann <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 08:55:38 -0500

For what I know about them, I agree with Rande. I would expect that the
continuation series cars to hold the value the best of all the non-original
(period) cobras simply because they have the correct Shelby American
branding on them, and Shel "endorsed" them...where he did not for all other
replicas. He did get behind superformance though...even on a business
level, so they should hold their value very well both due to that and the
quality.  I believe the 4000 series SA cars are VERY similar to the
superformance setup...and i was under the impression that some
collaboration between superformance and shelby was at the heart of those
two lines...but I havent dug in to it. I believe is the series 8000 that is
the 289 version car. That would be cool. My Cobra replica is not as
advanced of a car as the superformance or Shelby American Cont' car...its
built more like a street rod, but it does drive very well and similar to
the authentic original cobras I have driven on a couple of rare occasions.
Its a 90" wheel base reasonably accurate external representation of the
original SC bodied big block car.

I would personally not lump superformance and factory 5 in the same
category. nothing wrong with factory five, but the superformace car is
incredibly high quality and very well made...by FAR exceeding the standards
of workmenship of all other replicas, (except Kirkham) and exceeding the
quality of the originals in my opinion, with the possible exception of the
alloy coach work which is just a lost art altogether. The kirkhams arent
event a close discussion. They arent really even meant to replicate...they
are so nice, so fancy and so well built with precision design and
tolerance, they are in a class of their own. And kirkhams often demand
outrageous premiums...EVEN for a while, a few years ago, close to the
originals simply due to their incredible quality. These days however the
originals are untouchable for most of us as we know.

my two cents.
Cullen
Alpine 260 (TAC 840)

On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 6:38 AM, snakebit289 <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Stephen,
> Just from memory, the 4000 series sounds like the fatter coil sprung
> version of the recent version of the Shelby Cobra. This is strictly my
> opinion, but if your friend is keen on this model Cobra, and the price is
> within his limit and he's not buying add-ons that he's going to discard in
> order to equip his new car to his own liking, I would favor the Shelby
> version
> over cars like Superperformance or Factory Five, particularly if one of his
> concerns is resale value.
>
> Also, I  would check to see how close a new 4000
> today from Shelby price-wise would compare to the cost of  the used one
> that
> your friend is thinking about. Also, again just my opinion, but I would
> check
> into the leaf sprung, scrawnier version, based on the original Cobra MK II
> 289. They're rarer as replicars, and probably more enjoyable as a
> occasional
> street-driven car, like a bigger Tiger.
>
> Just as an aside, Hemmings reported
> yesterday that what amounts to a barn-find Cobra MK I (one of the first 260
> models with skinnier wires and no side fender vents) sold at auction(the
> Pebble Beach / Quail Lodge event) for $ 2.07 million including premium, so
> far
> the record for leaf-sprung Cobra's.
>
> Rande Bellman
> _______________________________________________
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From: "Dave Munroe" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:40:25 -0300

Hi Guys:

I'm just back from a week of realtively spirited "Touring" (about 1200 
miles), and the engine grew progressively more noisy until it was clear the 
exhaust manifold bolts were loosening.

Once home in the garage I was able to get the engine room stripped down to 
see what was going on. On the drivers side, the rear-most bolt had left the 
car (of course, the most difficult to access!) and the rest were very loose 
on both sides of the engine.

My car's engine is a 331 stroker making about 320 hp, and is fitted with 
period headers (identified by this List as from JC Whitney), and these 
header to cylinder head bolts have had to be tightened at least once every 
driving season.

I know on race cars this is an ongoing problem and that bolt locks are 
usually fitted to prevent this fault. But the headers I have leave little 
room for these mechanical locks. Does anyone else have this problem, and is 
there a reasonable solution that doesn't require engine removal to effect?

Perhaps a new set of headers? One of the many Loctite formulas that take 
high heat?

Help!

dave

[email-masked]

---

From: "Smit, Theo" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 16:10:20 +0000

Can you drill the bolt heads for lock wire?
Theo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:tigers-
> [email-masked]] On Behalf Of Dave Munroe
> Sent: August 21, 2013 9:40 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Cobra continuation
>
> Hi Guys:
>
> usually fitted to prevent this fault. But the headers I have leave
> little room for these mechanical locks. Does anyone else have this
> problem, and is there a reasonable solution that doesn't require engine
> removal to effect?
>
> Perhaps a new set of headers? One of the many Loctite formulas that
> take high heat?
>
> Help!
>
> dave

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From: "Rense, Mark (GE, Appl & Light)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 16:12:54 +0000

Dave, Header bolts are hard to keep tight on some applications, these locks
are small enough they should fit. Otherwise you can always drill the bolt
heads
and safety wire them, something not easily done in a Tiger!

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/stg-8913/overview/make/ford

Also consider the Percy's gaskets, they work.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/php-65014/overview/make/ford

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of Dave Munroe
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:40 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Cobra continuation

Hi Guys:

I'm just back from a week of realtively spirited "Touring" (about 1200 miles),
and the engine grew progressively more noisy until it was clear the exhaust
manifold bolts were loosening.

Once home in the garage I was able to get the engine room stripped down to see
what was going on. On the drivers side, the rear-most bolt had left the car
(of course, the most difficult to access!) and the rest were very loose on
both sides of the engine.

My car's engine is a 331 stroker making about 320 hp, and is fitted with
period headers (identified by this List as from JC Whitney), and these header
to cylinder head bolts have had to be tightened at least once every driving
season.

I know on race cars this is an ongoing problem and that bolt locks are usually
fitted to prevent this fault. But the headers I have leave little room for
these mechanical locks. Does anyone else have this problem, and is there a
reasonable solution that doesn't require engine removal to effect?

Perhaps a new set of headers? One of the many Loctite formulas that take high
heat?

Help!

dave

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
_______________________________________________

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---

From: james ellis <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:14:01 -0700 (PDT)

In the V6 Alpine world this is over come in a different way than anyone would
ever guess... the V6 is a metric beast and we simply use SAE header bolts that
are as close to the metric bolt as possible ... they almost fit but not quite
and they never back out.. 

________________________________
 From: Dave
Munroe <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21,
2013 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Cobra continuation

Hi Guys:

I'm just
back from a week of realtively spirited "Touring" (about 1200 miles), and the
engine grew progressively more noisy until it was clear the exhaust manifold
bolts were loosening.

Once home in the garage I was able to get the engine
room stripped down to see what was going on. On the drivers side, the
rear-most bolt had left the car (of course, the most difficult to access!) and
the rest were very loose on both sides of the engine.

My car's engine is a
331 stroker making about 320 hp, and is fitted with period headers (identified
by this List as from JC Whitney), and these header to cylinder head bolts have
had to be tightened at least once every driving season.

I know on race cars
this is an ongoing problem and that bolt locks are usually fitted to prevent
this fault. But the headers I have leave little room for these mechanical
locks. Does anyone else have this problem, and is there a reasonable solution
that doesn't require engine removal to effect?

Perhaps a new set of headers?
One of the many Loctite formulas that take high heat?

Help!

dave

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
_______________________________________________

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---

From: james ellis <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:31:46 -0700 (PDT)

couple other things... the V6 kit headers are very well mad with a beefy
flange at the head and they have a slightly raise ring around the port on the
head side, the interference fit as V6 Joe calls it works but these are iron
heads I would never try it on alloy heads would sure strip them out... and you
must be very careful to start them straight.. UMMV junk headers are just that
and if they are not flat at the flange well they will never seal for long...
________________________________
 From: james ellis <[email-masked]>
To:
Dave Munroe <[email-masked]>; "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Cobra
continuation

In the V6 Alpine world this is over come in a different way
than anyone would
ever guess... the V6 is a metric beast and we simply use SAE
header bolts that
are as close to the metric bolt as possible ... they almost
fit but not quite
and they never back out..
________________________________
From: Dave
Munroe <[email-masked]>
To:
[email-masked] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21,
2013 11:40 AM
Subject: Re:
[Tigers] Cobra continuation

Hi Guys:

I'm just
back from a week of
realtively spirited "Touring" (about 1200 miles), and the
engine grew
progressively more noisy until it was clear the exhaust manifold
bolts were
loosening.

Once home in the garage I was able to get the engine
room stripped
down to see what was going on. On the drivers side, the
rear-most bolt had
left the car (of course, the most difficult to access!) and
the rest were very
loose on both sides of the engine.

My car's engine is a
331 stroker making
about 320 hp, and is fitted with period headers (identified
by this List as
from JC Whitney), and these header to cylinder head bolts have
had to be
tightened at least once every driving season.

I know on race cars
this is an
ongoing problem and that bolt locks are usually fitted to prevent
this fault.
But the headers I have leave little room for these mechanical
locks. Does
anyone else have this problem, and is there a reasonable solution
that doesn't
require engine removal to effect?

Perhaps a new set of headers?
One of the
many Loctite formulas that take high heat?

Help!

dave

[email-masked]
Donate:
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums:
http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:
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From: "Dave Munroe" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 14:03:51 -0300

In a word Theo, Yes. Must have had brain "lock". Shoulda thought of that 
myself! Thanks for the boot.

My headers require that six of these bolts (three on each side) have very 
small heads to clear the pipes. Currently I have standard bolts in these 
locations that have the heads reduced to take the open end of a 7/16" 
wrench. This is not a satisfactory solution as you cannot get sufficient 
torque on them to keep them tight. Lock wire might fix this. The rest of the 
bolts are ARP socket head manifold bolts. The walls of the socket end of 
these bolts are too thin to reduce enough to fit by grinding. What I need 
are socket head bolts that have a reduced head diameter with the next size 
down Allen key. A strange bolt for sure, but I have not been successful in 
finding such an animal on the WWW. Any ideas?

Also, is it a bad idea to keep driving the car with a leak at the 
cyl.head/manifold joint? Any danger of damaging the head or header surfaces?

Thanks for your help!

Dave

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Smit, Theo" <[email-masked]>
To: "Dave Munroe" <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:10 PM

[email-masked]

---

From: james ellis <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:09:26 -0700 (PDT)

could burn a valve especially if you are running lean
________________________________
 From: Dave Munroe <[email-masked]>
To:
"Smit, Theo" <[email-masked]>; [email-masked] 
Sent:
Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Header bolts locking
strategies

In a word Theo, Yes. Must have had brain "lock". Shoulda
thought of that myself! Thanks for the boot.

My headers require that six of
these bolts (three on each side) have very small heads to clear the pipes.
Currently I have standard bolts in these locations that have the heads reduced
to take the open end of a 7/16" wrench. This is not a satisfactory solution as
you cannot get sufficient torque on them to keep them tight. Lock wire might
fix this. The rest of the bolts are ARP socket head manifold bolts. The walls
of the socket end of these bolts are too thin to reduce enough to fit by
grinding. What I need are socket head bolts that have a reduced head diameter
with the next size down Allen key. A strange bolt for sure, but I have not
been successful in finding such an animal on the WWW. Any ideas?

Also, is it
a bad idea to keep driving the car with a leak at the cyl.head/manifold joint?
Any danger of damaging the head or header surfaces?

Thanks for your help!
Dave

----- Original Message ----- From: "Smit, Theo"
<[email-masked]>
To: "Dave Munroe" <[email-masked]>;
<[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:10 PM

Can you
drill the bolt heads for lock wire?
Theo

> I know on race
cars this is an ongoing problem and that bolt locks are
> usually fitted to
prevent this fault. But the headers I have leave
> little room for these
mechanical locks. Does anyone else have this
> problem, and is there a
reasonable solution that doesn't require engine
> take
high heat?

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: Larry Paulick <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:15:13 -0400

These work, as  I have used them on my Tiger since 2000.

Larry

> I'm just back from a week of realtively spirited "Touring" (about 1200
miles),
> Once home in the garage I was able to get the engine room stripped down to
see
> period headers (identified by this List as from JC Whitney), and these
header
> I know on race cars this is an ongoing problem and that bolt locks are
usually
> Perhaps a new set of headers? One of the many Loctite formulas that take
high
> dave
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

---

From: "Smit, Theo" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 17:19:11 +0000

Hi Dave,

I use the header bolts that have 7/16 hex head with built in flange like
these:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-915a/overview/

but they have these, too:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-84541/overview/make/ford
that have 3/8" heads.

Even though they're grade 8, you *should* be able to drill them for lock wire,
with a proper fixture in a drill press and high quality drill bits. I have
Wilwood rotors and drilled the rotor to hat bolts (socket cap screws) for lock
wire.

Theo

[email-masked]

---

From: "Dave Munroe" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 15:01:37 -0300

Thanks Larry:

Good to know. - I'm going to try them. I can put them on the 10 bolts that 
have no pipe interference, and lock-wire the other six. Those Percy's Head 
Gaskets sound good too. I don't need to keep digging down into the header 
area all the time to keep the headers sealed!

Appreciate the input!

Dave

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Larry Paulick" <[email-masked]>
To: "Rense, Mark (GE, Appl & Light)" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "Dave Munroe" <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 2:15 PM

Larry

[email-masked]

---

From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 15:18:31 -0400

I would safety wire them for sure. Lock washer at minimum. Threadlocker for
sure.

Driving with them loose could destroy your engine, next time stop and fix
it, you were lucky.

Michael
On Aug 21, 2013 1:07 PM, "Dave Munroe" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> torque on them to keep them tight. Lock wire might fix this. The rest of
> the bolts are ARP socket head manifold bolts. The walls of the socket end
> of these bolts are too thin to reduce enough to fit by grinding. What I
> need are socket head bolts that have a reduced head diameter with the next
> size down Allen key. A strange bolt for sure, but I have not been
> successful in finding such an animal on the WWW. Any ideas?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Smit, Theo" <[email-masked]>
> ______________________________**_________________
>
> [email-masked]
>
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