Subject: [Tigers] Bizarre Running Issue

From: Jay Laifman <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 21:52:07 -0700

Ok, this one doesn't strike a chord with me from hearing similar stuff
before.

As before, I recently rebuilt the Holley.  I had an issue with no running
below 2,000 rpm.  I raised the front float level, adjusted the idle screws and
the idle and all was good.  I went on a number of drives and it seemed fine.

But today, when driving to work, it still ran fine, until about 45 minutes
into the drive - long after the temp gauge was already reading normal
operating temp.  Then it would die when I came to idle.

I looked on line and it suggested a vacuum leak or the float was too high.
But no vacuum line is remotely loose and I would think this would show its
head earlier in the drive.

Then on the way home, I hit terrible terrible traffic.  It was mostly idle for
a long time, then inch forward.  But, still the car was fine.  It held temp
just fine, and idle.  Then some time about 45-60 minutes into this 2 hour
drive, it started stalling again if I went down to idle.  And now the engine
ran a bit rough below 2,000 rpm.  Not bad like before I adjusted the float.
But not good either.

At every stop, even the last stop before my house, it would stall unless I was
able to catch it and lightly rev the engine to keep it going.  Note that it
would stall EVEN IF I didn't hit the brakes or slow down.  It was not
servo/braking/change of angle/fuel sloshing related.  I could be driving along
and press in the clutch, lift my foot off the gas, and it would drop to 0 rpm
and stall.

Then I got home, pulled up to the house, and fully expected it to stall again.
Now it didn't stall and it seemed to be smooth again.

My thought was that there is something wrong with that front float.  Like
perhaps something causes it to expand and it is sticking, or some other
bizarre thing.  But that doesn't fully explain the behavior.  Because the
front float didn't match the rear one, and it is adjusting oddly (because it
has to be lifted quite a bit off of horizontal to run right), I think I'm
going to order the newer float and install it and see what happens.
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From: " Ron Fraser" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 08:26:36 -0400

Jay
	That does seem bizarre.  I'll have to ponder on that one for awhile.
You maybe on the right track with the float it does seem like fuel problem

I do suggest you check the timing and the timing advance curve, also make
sure the vacuum advance canister will hold vacuum.  Make sure the initial
timing is always returning to the same point.  Make sure all the wire
connections to and from the distributor are good.   I worked on one car that
had all kinds of bizarre problems until I found the distributor advance was
hanging up and messing up the initial timing every time the throttle was
touched.

Ron Fraser

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Jay Laifman
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 12:52 AM
To: [email-masked] Den
Subject: [Tigers] Bizarre Running Issue

As before, I recently rebuilt the Holley.  I had an issue with no running
below 2,000 rpm.  I raised the front float level, adjusted the idle screws
and the idle and all was good.  I went on a number of drives and it seemed
fine.

Then on the way home, I hit terrible terrible traffic.  It was mostly idle
for a long time, then inch forward.  But, still the car was fine.  It held
temp just fine, and idle.  Then some time about 45-60 minutes into this 2
hour drive, it started stalling again if I went down to idle.  And now the
engine ran a bit rough below 2,000 rpm.  Not bad like before I adjusted the
float. But not good either.

At every stop, even the last stop before my house, it would stall unless I
was able to catch it and lightly rev the engine to keep it going.  Note that
it would stall EVEN IF I didn't hit the brakes or slow down.  It was not
servo/braking/change of angle/fuel sloshing related.  I could be driving
along and press in the clutch, lift my foot off the gas, and it would drop
to 0 rpm and stall.

Then I got home, pulled up to the house, and fully expected it to stall
again. Now it didn't stall and it seemed to be smooth again.

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---

From: Jay Laifman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 05:34:35 -0700

You mention one thing that I noticed while I was working on the carb, and I
meant to go back and address.  The vacuum advance hose is fine at the carb
end.  But at the distributor end, the attachment part points pretty much right
at one of the radiator hoses, and the vacuum hose was being bent at that
point.  It didn't seem like it was fully pinched or that it had a hole in it.

I was going too see if I could find some sort of hard 90 degree elbow that I
could put on right there.  I thought of it during my 2 hour drive.  But I
didn't think it could be the cause of this.

Jay

On Jun 20, 2013, at 5:26 AM, Ron Fraser wrote:

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From: " Ron Fraser" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 08:45:27 -0400

Jay
	Sounds like you have the original style vacuum can.  The hard line
bend there is very sharp. I think possibly the original upper radiator hose
had a different contour.
	I installed a Crane vacuum advance can with a rubber 90 to some
plastic hard line.

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Laifman [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 8:35 AM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Bizarre Running Issue

You mention one thing that I noticed while I was working on the carb, and I
meant to go back and address.  The vacuum advance hose is fine at the carb
end.  But at the distributor end, the attachment part points pretty much
right at one of the radiator hoses, and the vacuum hose was being bent at
that point.  It didn't seem like it was fully pinched or that it had a hole
in it.

Jay

> I do suggest you check the timing and the timing advance curve, also
> make sure the vacuum advance canister will hold vacuum.  Make sure the
> initial timing is always returning to the same point.  Make sure all the
wire
> had all kinds of bizarre problems until I found the distributor
> advance was hanging up and messing up the initial timing every time
> the throttle was touched.
>
> Ron Fraser
>
>
> As before, I recently rebuilt the Holley.  I had an issue with no
> running below 2,000 rpm.  I raised the front float level, adjusted the
> idle screws and the idle and all was good.  I went on a number of
> drives and it seemed fine.
>
> But today, when driving to work, it still ran fine, until about 45
> minutes into the drive - long after the temp gauge was already reading
> normal operating temp.  Then it would die when I came to idle.
>
> I looked on line and it suggested a vacuum leak or the float was too
> high. But no vacuum line is remotely loose and I would think this
> would show its head earlier in the drive.
>
> Then on the way home, I hit terrible terrible traffic.  It was mostly
> idle for a long time, then inch forward.  But, still the car was fine.
> It held temp just fine, and idle.  Then some time about 45-60 minutes
> into this 2 hour drive, it started stalling again if I went down to
> idle.  And now the engine ran a bit rough below 2,000 rpm.  Not bad
> like before I adjusted the float. But not good either.
>
> At every stop, even the last stop before my house, it would stall
> unless I was able to catch it and lightly rev the engine to keep it
> going.  Note that it would stall EVEN IF I didn't hit the brakes or
> slow down.  It was not servo/braking/change of angle/fuel sloshing
> related.  I could be driving along and press in the clutch, lift my
> foot off the gas, and it would drop to 0 rpm and stall.
>
> Then I got home, pulled up to the house, and fully expected it to
> stall again. Now it didn't stall and it seemed to be smooth again.
>
> My thought was that there is something wrong with that front float.
> Like perhaps something causes it to expand and it is sticking, or some
> other bizarre thing.  But that doesn't fully explain the behavior.
> Because the front float didn't match the rear one, and it is adjusting
> oddly (because it has to be lifted quite a bit off of horizontal to
> run right), I think I'm going to order the newer float and install it
> and see what happens. _______________________________________________
>
> [email-masked]
>

[email-masked]