Subject: [Tigers] Holley Rebuild - float bowls

From: Jay Laifman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 22:00:59 -0700

So I've proceeded a bit more on the carb.  The back float bowl was a disaster.
The gasket was really stuck on the carb.  I used the chemical gasket remover.
But it wasn't all that much help.  And, the cleaner and some of he small
scrapings ended up in the small holes.  What a mess.  I think I've cleaned
them all out now.

On the front float bowl, that came off and cleaned up easily enough.  But the
next part, the large piece that covers the power valve seems as stuck as the
rear float bowl gasket.  I'm thinking I might just leave that one alone at
this point.  Unless someone tells me it is critical to replace the power valve
and whatever else is in there.

Also, is there some reason my dad might have had the floats really high?  The
rear one was a little high from the "parallel to the ground" that the Holley
instructions suggest.  But the front one was really high - almost to the top.
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 06:04:53 +0000 (UTC)

Holleys are supposedly very sensitive to float levels being set properly. Not knowing how the motor was running before, it is hard to guess for what he may have been compensating. Was it running rich? I believe the carbs are designed such that the secondary is set about 1/16 below the level of the primary in terms of where the sight window sits with respect to the floor of the bowl. I think that is to keep the secondaries for functioning before they are supposed to. I vaguely remember reading that the weight of the fuel has a major impact on when and how the jets function, and too much fuel in the bowl equals too much fuel weight. I read all this a long time ago in the Fisher book on Holley carbs. A great resource if you have not read it. 

Depending on when your carb was made, it may or may not have power valve blow-out protection in it. Holley makes a retrofit "kit" to add that to the older carbs. As long as you have the carb apart, I would suggest you add that protection if it does not already exist. The kit is pretty cheap. 

I expect the new gaskets you are installing are the "blue" ones. They seal better than the old ones, make taking things apart a lot easier in the future and I think are reusable (as long as they do not tear). 

Gene 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Laifman" <[email-masked]> 
To: "[email-masked] Den" <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 12:00:59 AM 
Subject: [Tigers] Holley Rebuild - float bowls 

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From: Gary Winblad <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 14:27:11 +0000 (UTC)

Oh  Jay...
I feel your pain!!  It brings it all back..  yup, your Holley must be from the
same vintage
as my 4bbl.   Now my much older 2bbl never had those stuck forever gaskets.
Be sure to use the plain paper ones when you put it back together,  they WILL
leak
but so did the others.
The floats get adjusted in place, wet.  At least that's an easy step.
As delivered, my 600cfm list 1850 was waaayy rich, I went down 2 jet sizes as
I recall.
I hope your dad's ox sensor is still working, that is a very good thing to
have!
Gary
    ----- Original Message -----  From: Jay Laifman <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked] Den <[email-masked]>  Sent: Wed, 12 Jun 2013
05:00:59 -0000 (UTC)  Subject: [Tigers] Holley Rebuild - float bowls    So
I've proceeded a bit more on the carb.  The back float bowl was a disaster.
The gasket was really stuck on the carb.  I used the chemical gasket remover.
But it wasn't all that much help.  And, the cleaner and some of he small
scrapings ended up in the small holes.  What a mess.  I think I've cleaned
them all out now.    On the front float bowl, that came off and cleaned up
easily enough.  But the  next part, the large piece that covers the power
valve seems as stuck as the  rear float bowl gasket.  I'm thinking I might
just leave that one alone at  this point.  Unless someone tells me it is
critical to replace the power valve  and whatever else is in there.    Also,
is there some reason my dad might have had the floats really high?  The  rear
one was a little high from the "parallel to the ground" that the Holley
instructions suggest.  But the front one was really high - almost to the top.
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From: "Smit, Theo" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 14:28:46 +0000

Too-high floats are usually more trouble than too-low floats because you can
get unintended flooding during hard cornering or braking. If your needle and
seat size is marginal (or if the fuel pump/fuel line flow capacity is not that
good) then having the floats low can cause starvation on sustained
full-throttle due to insufficient fuel volume in the carb. I'm not familiar
with the float setting procedure on the Holley carbs, but I'm sure there are
specific tweaks that can be done, depending on the float bowl style, to
alleviate the common driving concerns.

On many Weber carbs, you had to be a bit careful because the float high limit
was set by flipping the assembly upside down, and this would sometimes lead
people to adjusting the things in the wrong direction.

Cheers,
Theo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:tigers-
> [email-masked]] On Behalf Of Jay Laifman
> Sent: June 11, 2013 11:01 PM
> To: [email-masked] Den
> Also, is there some reason my dad might have had the floats really
> high?  The rear one was a little high from the "parallel to the ground"
> that the Holley instructions suggest.  But the front one was really
> high - almost to the top.
>

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From: Gary Winblad <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 15:05:26 +0000 (UTC)

Also,
The "rebuild" level is probably a low level just to get you going.  The
instructions are
to always set the level wet after installation.
Float level has a minor(?) influence on mixture.  Your dad may have tweaked it
based
on his ox sensor readings?
Gary
    ----- Original Message -----  From: Theo Smit <[email-masked]>
To: Jay Laifman <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] Den
<[email-masked]>  Sent: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 14:28:46 -0000 (UTC)  Subject:
Re: [Tigers] Holley Rebuild - float bowls    Too-high floats are usually more
trouble than too-low floats because you can  get unintended flooding during
hard cornering or braking. If your needle and  seat size is marginal (or if
the fuel pump/fuel line flow capacity is not that  good) then having the
floats low can cause starvation on sustained  full-throttle due to
insufficient fuel volume in the carb. I'm not familiar  with the float setting
procedure on the Holley carbs, but I'm sure there are  specific tweaks that
can be done, depending on the float bowl style, to  alleviate the common
driving concerns.    On many Weber carbs, you had to be a bit careful because
the float high limit  was set by flipping the assembly upside down, and this
would sometimes lead  people to adjusting the things in the wrong direction.
Cheers,  Theo    > -----Original Message-----  > From:
[email-masked] [mailto:tigers-  > [email-masked]] On
Behalf Of Jay Laifman  > Sent: June 11, 2013 11:01 PM  > To:
[email-masked] Den  > Subject: [Tigers] Holley Rebuild - float bowls  >
> Also, is there some reason my dad might have had the floats really  > high?
The rear one was a little high from the "parallel to the ground"  > that the
Holley instructions suggest.  But the front one was really  > high - almost to
the top.  >    ________________________________    CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
This email and any attachments are for the sole use of  the intended
recipient(s) and contain information that may be confidential  and/or legally
privileged. If you have received this email in error, please  notify the
sender by reply email and delete the message. Any disclosure,  copying,
distribution or use of this communication (including attachments) by  someone
other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Thank you.
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 15:31:41 +0000

I'm worried that he never knew the bowls were way off and adjusted jets to compensate. It wouldn't be like him. But we'll see what happens when I reset them. The problem is that one is so off that there is no way the screw adjuster will be enough.  I'm going to have to bend it before reassembly. But thinking about how off it is, I'm also going to make sure it doesn't have any holes in it. 

Also, I'm used to Webers where the jets are easy to swap (and float level is critical).  I'm thinking the Holley is not so easy and he would have had to see the floats anyway to change the jets. 

The ox sensor.  I haven't paid too much attention to that other than to note it is frequently in the red. It has a row of lights going from green to yellow to red. Can someone tell me under what driving conditions should it be in the color bands?  Like idle, cruising, slowly accelerating and on it?  And is it likely to be accurate or could it be wrong because of a gazillion things?

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Winblad <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 15:05:26 
To: [email-masked] Den<[email-masked]>
Cc: Jay Laifman<[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Holley Rebuild - float bowls

Also,
The "rebuild" level is probably a low level just to get you going.  The instructions are
to always set the level wet after installation.
Float level has a minor(?) influence on mixture.  Your dad may have tweaked it based
on his ox sensor readings?
Gary
    ----- Original Message -----  From: Theo Smit <[email-masked]>  To: Jay Laifman <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] Den <[email-masked]>  Sent: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 14:28:46 -0000 (UTC)  Subject: Re: [Tigers] Holley Rebuild - float bowls    Too-high floats are usually more trouble than too-low floats because you can  get unintended flooding during hard cornering or braking. If your needle and  seat size is marginal (or if the fuel pump/fuel line flow capacity is not that  good) then having the floats low can cause starvation on sustained  full-throttle due to insufficient fuel volume in the carb. I'm not familiar  with the float setting procedure on the Holley carbs, but I'm sure there are  specific tweaks that can be done, depending on the float bowl style, to  alleviate the common driving concerns.    On many Weber carbs, you had to be a bit careful because the float high limit  was set by flipping the assembly upside down, and this would sometimes lead  people to adjusting the things in the wrong direction.    Cheers,  Theo    > -----Original Message-----  > From: [email-masked] [mailto:tigers-  > [email-masked]] On Behalf Of Jay Laifman  > Sent: June 11, 2013 11:01 PM  > To: [email-masked] Den  > Subject: [Tigers] Holley Rebuild - float bowls  >  > Also, is there some reason my dad might have had the floats really  > high?  The rear one was a little high from the "parallel to the ground"  > that the Holley instructions suggest.  But the front one was really  > high - almost to the top.  >    ________________________________    CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole use of  the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be confidential  and/or legally privileged. If you have received this email in error, please  notify the sender by reply email and delete the message. Any disclosure,  copying, distribution or use of this communication (including attachments) by  someone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Thank you.  _______________________________________________    [email-masked]    Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html  Archive: http://www.team.net/archive  Forums: http://www.team.net/forums  Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
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