Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pressure

From: Joel Martin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 12:45:36 -0700 (PDT)

&gt; I am having issues with my rebuilt
&gt; Autolite 4100 4 barrel on the 1965 Ford 289 HiPo engine with
&gt; about 271 HP and 5/16&quot; fuel line.  The
&gt; passenger side secondary is filling up with gas at idle and
&gt; then leaking out the side.  I have checked float level,
&gt; same as primary.  No dirt etc in needle and seat. 
&gt; I am  thinking I have too much fuel pressure and fuel
&gt; is pushing past the needle and seat.
&gt;
&gt; I have disconnected the fuel line from carb and with
&gt; pressure guage on line, I have 5.52 lbs of pressure. 
&gt; My understanding was that the 4100 needles were good to 8
&gt; lbs before fuel would push past needle and seats.  When
&gt; the pump gets to 5.52 lbs with only the pressure guage
&gt; connected the pump stops ticking, when connected to the carb
&gt; it never stops ticking&#92;pumping
&gt;
&gt; I purchase the Facet fuel pump Part Number: BK 6101074
&gt; Product Line: Balkamp
&gt; Attributes:
&gt; Fuel Pump Fitting Type[s] : 5/16&quot; Barb Elbow
&gt; Fuel Pump Gallons Per Hour : 36 gph
&gt; Fuel Pump Line Size : 5/16&quot;
&gt; Fuel Pump Pressure Rating : 4 - 5.5 psi
&gt;
&gt; My understanding was that the 4100 needles were good to 8
&gt; lbs before fuel would push past needle and seats.  The
&gt; stock SU pumped 15 GPH and would support 200 HP, at least to
&gt; my understanding - no idea of the PSI?  What
&gt; PSI&#92;GPH is needed to support the 271 HP engine?
&gt;
&gt; The only thing I can think to do is purchase a fuel
&gt; regulator and choke down the PSI until secondary stops
&gt; pushing gas past the needle and seat.
&gt;
&gt; Any ideas would be appreciated.
&gt;
&gt; Joel Martin
&gt;
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From: Don Antilla <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 16:06:13 -0400

* Joel: I own a Series 200 Griffith with a stroked 289  so it is now 347
inches.
I use a Holley Red electric pump which produces 7 PSI
I have a slightly tuned up HiPo 289 Autolite carb and I do not have any
flooding problem.

I took a lot of care to assure my float level was per the book.
My process was:
* Remove the top from the carb
* Note the fuel level and measure the distance from the top surface of the
carb to the wet fuel in the bowl. I forgot the value, but it is found easily
in the Ford publications. If you can't find the value please let me know.
You MUST be certain to not have a wet fuel level higher than specified
because the booster venturis will then be sucked into the two secondary
venturis.
Next:
* Turn your electric fuel pump ON and observe if the level of the fuel
rises. It shouldn't take too long for the level to stabilize.
* When the pump is running, use a flashlght (LED type preferred. NEVER bring
an incandescent bulb anywhere near fuel since a drop on the globe can result
in a fire/explosion) to look into the secondaries and see if any fuel is
seeping past the booster rings ('venturis). Also look to see if any fuel is
seeping past the booster venturi assembly where it is screwed to the carb
body.(Be sure you have a gasket under your booster venturi assembly)
* When the fuel pump changes tone, or when the level stabilizes, measure the
wet fuel level with respect to the top of the carb body. It needs to be
precisely on the money for the carb to run right.
* Remember to be sure that you have the little spring retainer piece on the
float pivot/ needle & seat brass piece. If the little retention spring is
missing, it well could cause the needle to rise and excess fuel to leak in
substantially. Be sure the lock spring is engaged onto the brass recess.
Hope this helps.

Don A

On 6/18/13 3:45 PM, "Joel Martin" <[email-masked]> wrote:

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:06:50 +0000 (UTC)

I'm using a Facet with about the same max pressure on my stock 2 barrel with no problems.  Did you check the float height again?  I had something like this happen (not on the Tiger) when the float didn't.  It had a slow leak and eventually sank.  

And you said only one bowl overflows.  The other side is always OK with the same pressure?

Stu

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From: "Smit, Theo" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:07:37 +0000

It might be that the secondary needle and seat assembly is damaged or
misaligned and that prevents it from shutting off completely. Is the float
hanger free of friction?
One other thing that can happen to carbs with brass floats (I don't recall if
the 4100 is in that category, but it's happened to me with Webers) is that the
float develops a leak and then fills with fuel so it can't operate the shutoff
needle.

Theo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:tigers-
> [email-masked]] On Behalf Of Joel Martin
> Sent: June 18, 2013 1:46 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pressure
>
> &gt; Autolite 4100 4 barrel on the 1965 Ford 289 HiPo engine with &gt;
> about 271 HP and 5/16&quot; fuel line.

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From: " Ron Fraser" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 16:37:31 -0400

Joel
	You could drop the float level a little to see if it helps.  Make
sure the float does float and not sink.
Float level is away check wet.

Ford carburetors operate around 5 psi and I believe up to around 8 psi

Leaks are always a pain but you need to find where and why it is leaking -
is the gasket leaking, is the float level too high, is the needle and seat
OK, is it the casting?

At WOT you need about 1/2 lb fuel per HP - 15 gph will support around 200
HP; 36 gph should support around 480 HP

Ron Fraser

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Joel Martin
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 3:46 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pressure

&gt; I am having issues with my rebuilt
&gt; Autolite 4100 4 barrel on the 1965 Ford 289 HiPo engine with &gt; about
271 HP and 5/16&quot; fuel line.  The &gt; passenger side secondary is
filling up with gas at idle and &gt; then leaking out the side.  I have
checked float level, &gt; same as primary.  No dirt etc in needle and seat.
&gt; I am  thinking I have too much fuel pressure and fuel
&gt; is pushing past the needle and seat.
&gt;
&gt; I have disconnected the fuel line from carb and with
&gt; pressure guage on line, I have 5.52 lbs of pressure.
&gt; My understanding was that the 4100 needles were good to 8 &gt; lbs
before fuel would push past needle and seats.  When &gt; the pump gets to
5.52 lbs with only the pressure guage &gt; connected the pump stops ticking,
when connected to the carb &gt; it never stops ticking&#92;pumping &gt; &gt;
I purchase the Facet fuel pump Part Number: BK 6101074 &gt; Product Line:
Balkamp &gt; Attributes: &gt; Fuel Pump Fitting Type[s] : 5/16&quot; Barb
Elbow &gt; Fuel Pump Gallons Per Hour : 36 gph &gt; Fuel Pump Line Size :
5/16&quot; &gt; Fuel Pump Pressure Rating : 4 - 5.5 psi &gt; &gt; My
understanding was that the 4100 needles were good to 8 &gt; lbs before fuel
would push past needle and seats.  The &gt; stock SU pumped 15 GPH and would
support 200 HP, at least to &gt; my understanding - no idea of the PSI?
What &gt; PSI&#92;GPH is needed to support the 271 HP engine? &gt; &gt; The
only thing I can think to do is purchase a fuel &gt; regulator and choke
down the PSI until secondary stops &gt; pushing gas past the needle and
seat. &gt; &gt; Any ideas would be appreciated. &gt; &gt; Joel Martin &gt;
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From: "csx2282" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 15:06:00 -0700

Leaky brass floats aren't the only ones that can cause problems.  Composite 
floats can too.  I once had a Dodge equipped with a Holley with a side 
mounted float.  After several years it started having a problem with 
stalling while turning, but only in one direction.  After asking around, I 
found out that this was a common problem with this carb.  It turns out that 
composite floats tend to lose their bouncy with age.  Since the float was 
side mounted, there was a stronger centrifugal effect on it in one direction 
than the other, resulted in fuel starvation.  With cross mounted floats, 
this can cause stalling during hard braking.

Whenever I do a carb rebuild, I also replace the float(s).  I suppose you 
could have brass floats checked for leakage, but I've never bothered.  With 
composite floats, replacement is just a given as far as I'm concerned.

Roland

> From: "Smit, Theo" <[email-masked]>
>

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