Subject: [Tigers] Chambered exhaust systems?

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 16:27:13 -0400 (EDT)

Back in the day, the DZ302 Camaro Z/28 had a chambered exhaust system as an 
 option...before my time, but I guess it was delivered in the trunk of the 
car  for dealer installation (first "trunk kit"?).
 
Anyhow, it replaced the mufflers, while providing some muffling of noise,  
and resulted in a nice weight loss and better flow.
 
Question: has anyone looked into some type of chambered exhaust system for  
the Tiger? With our space constraints, it seems like it might be an 
interesting  idea. Less weight wouldn't bother me, either ;-)
 
Mike Wood
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From: "Smit, Theo" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 02:07:56 +0000

I have a pair of the original LAT-73 (?) Mitchell mufflers sitting in my
garage. I can measure them for length - they just fit between the front
exhaust hangers and the rear axle. I currently have some 3-chamber 50 series
Flowmasters in there (2" center in, center out) that take up pretty much all
of the available width, and they also come within a couple of inches of the
available length.

Way back when, we did some dyno tests on various mufflers for racing purposes
(while trying to get under the sound restrictions at some local tracks). We
tried turbo mufflers, glasspack (Thrush type), the blue bottle resonator type,
as well as the Supertrapp end-of-the-pipe baffle style. The blue bottle won
out, and it actually had a more mellow sound than the Supertrapp and the
Thrush mufflers. This was before Flowmasters really hit the market; I forget
if we actually did try those on the dyno at some point but from a seat of the
pants perspective they did okay on power as well as being good for noise
suppression. The fact that they were totally bombproof was a plus.

I like the Flowmaster sound but I may put an H-pipe or X-pipe in there to try
to cut a little more of the bark out. I'm also open to suggestions for a good
modern turbo muffler that has decent sound without drone problems.
Theo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:tigers-
> [email-masked]] On Behalf Of [email-masked]
> Sent: April 6, 2013 2:27 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [Tigers] Chambered exhaust systems?
>
> Back in the day, the DZ302 Camaro Z/28 had a chambered exhaust system
> as an  option...before my time, but I guess it was delivered in the
> trunk of the car  for dealer installation (first "trunk kit"?).
>
> Anyhow, it replaced the mufflers, while providing some muffling of
> noise, and resulted in a nice weight loss and better flow.
>
> Question: has anyone looked into some type of chambered exhaust system
> for the Tiger? With our space constraints, it seems like it might be an
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 12:28:38 -0400 (EDT)

Thanks, Theo. I was looking around the 'net yesterday and saw this:
http://www.classicchambered.com/
Concern is that there would really be minimal muffling. Upside would be  
installation, particularly in terms of avoiding the "mufflers hanging low"  
issue/look we have with our cars.
 
I also had another friend tell me he installed the new tech, small diameter 
 glasspacks on his Tiger with very good results.
 
I'm not a big fan of Flowmaster mufflers. I've yet to have an install where 
 there wasn't some droning, regardless as to whether running an H or X 
pipe.  They do sound good under throttle and are made very well, though!

 
In a message dated 4/6/2013 7:08:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
[email-masked] writes:

Way back when, we did some dyno tests on various mufflers for  racing 
purposes (while trying to get under the sound restrictions at some  local 
tracks). We tried turbo mufflers, glasspack (Thrush type), the blue  bottle 
resonator type, as well as the Supertrapp end-of-the-pipe baffle style.  The blue 
bottle won out, and it actually had a more mellow sound than the  Supertrapp 
and the Thrush mufflers. This was before Flowmasters really hit the  market; 
I forget if we actually did try those on the dyno at some point but  from a 
seat of the pants perspective they did okay on power as well as being  good 
for noise suppression. The fact that they were totally bombproof was a  
plus.

I like the Flowmaster sound but I may put an H-pipe or X-pipe in  there to 
try to cut a little more of the bark out. I'm also open to  suggestions for 
a good modern turbo muffler that has decent sound without  drone problems.
Theo

CONFIDENTIALITY  NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole 
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please notify the sender  by reply email and delete the message. Any 
disclosure, copying, distribution  or use of this communication (including 
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---

From: Theo Smit <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2013 13:35:47 -0600

Mike,
Here's a picture of what I think are the Mitchell mufflers - these are 
what was on my Tiger when I got it.

For the rest of you that won't get the picture:

The body is 24" long, 3x5" oval, 2" in and out. Contrary to what I 
remembered, the hangers attach 5" rearward from the front of the muffler 
body - there is only about 20 inches between where the hangers attach on 
the chassis and the rear axle tube.

I do recall the front of these mufflers pretty much touching the 
rearward part of the underbody X frame, just behind the little exhaust 
pipe notch in the X. The sound of these mufflers was pretty aggressive, 
but it went well with the rest of the system and engine.

I would also be concerned with the amount of sound suppression that's 
possible in a small diameter muffler such as the chambered ones in the 
link below. It may be that with proper choice of all the internal 
volumes, they get noise cancellation at most of the frequencies of 
interest, but it seems to me that the overall result would still be 
pretty dependent on the rest of the package, i.e. engine displacement, 
cam, and the diameter of the rest of the exhaust.

Theo

> pipe.  They do sound good under throttle and are made very well, though!

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of IMG_1333.JPG]
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 15:58:00 -0400 (EDT)

I can tell you that in using cheap old glass paks with a stock engine and  
the same mufflers with a hopped up 302....they are much, much louder with 
the  302.  I shouldn't think a stock engine would be that difficult to  muffle.
Mark L

In a message dated 4/7/2013 3:37:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[email-masked] writes:

Mike,

Theo

> pipe.   They do sound good under throttle and are made very well,  though!

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which  had a name of 
 IMG_1333.JPG]
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From: Theo Smit <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2013 14:25:11 -0600

True enough, but the LAT73/LAT74 headers and exhaust, that these 
mufflers were part of, were not really intended for stock engines.

My Tiger came to me with a five-bolt 289 with ported and polished heads, 
a Holley 600 and F4B manifold, and a pretty lopey cam. 'Quiet' was not 
really in its repertoire, although sticking with a 2 inch exhaust system 
does help keep the overall noise level down compared with 2 1/4 or 2 1/2 
inch pipe, at the expense of some performance at the high end.

Theo

On 4/7/2013 1:58 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
> I can tell you that in using cheap old glass paks with a stock engine 
> and the same mufflers with a hopped up 302....they are much, much 
> louder with the 302.  I shouldn't think a stock engine would be that 
> difficult to muffle.
> Mark L
>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 16:27:17 -0400 (EDT)

My motor is a fairly mild roller cammed 302 w/headers. The new tech  
glasspacks are supposedly much better than the old style, in terms of noise, I  
guess, but I'm really curious about the chambered design.
 
I'm going to do some research and see if I can get any real data.  

In a message dated 4/7/2013 12:58:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
[email-masked] writes:

Mike,

Theo

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 16:28:21 -0400 (EDT)

Of course, we also need to differentiate "good noise" from "bad noise"...  
;-)

In a message dated 4/7/2013 1:25:14 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
[email-masked] writes:

True enough, but the LAT73/LAT74 headers and  exhaust, that these mufflers 
were part of, were not really intended for stock  engines.

My Tiger came to me with a five-bolt 289 with ported and  polished heads, a 
Holley 600 and F4B manifold, and a pretty lopey cam. 'Quiet'  was not 
really in its repertoire, although sticking with a 2 inch exhaust  system does 
help keep the overall noise level down compared with 2 1/4 or 2  1/2 inch 
pipe, at the expense of some performance at the high end.  

Theo

On 4/7/2013 1:58 PM, [email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked])   wrote:

In a message dated 4/7/2013 3:37:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
[email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked])  writes:

Mike,

Theo

[email-masked] (mailto:[email-masked]) 

[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 22:41:28 -0400 (EDT)

Harley guys/gals love that unmuffled "potato potato"....me? notsomuch. To  
make it worse, on most all Harleys the throttle is more of a volume control  
than a discernible source of increased forward speed. If you're going to 
make  that much noise, at least be fast.
 
Any Honda/Acura or Miata four cylinder unmuffled is ear pain. 
 
Mazda rotaries require mufflers to sound less than annoying. Interesting  
engines, though.
 
Inline sixes, V8's and V12's all tend to sound right, no matter how muffled 
 or unmuffled they may be ;-)

In a message dated 4/7/2013 7:34:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
[email-masked] writes:

l up  there.  I'm sure I'm offending people now so I'm going to shut up and 
 apologise! 

On Sunday, April 7, 2013, Owain Lloyd  wrote:

Aucra  exhausts.... (The ones that sound like farts).   Not many engines  
sounds bad to me but Acuras and Harleys are wel

On  Sunday, April 7, 2013, Owain Lloyd wrote:

Oh  god I know!  They sound even worse than pointless 'emergency' sirens.  
Definitely one of my top 'angry hates' :) what do people see (or  should I 
say hear) in that awful racket?  

I think all loud noises should be judged by the benchmark of 'would  you 
rather your toddler kept sleeping or should they be woken up to  experience 
said sound?'  If its not worth being interrupted from an  interesting 
conversation from (and a small block ford usually is), I don't  want to hear it!

- angry Owain in noisy manhattan.

On Sunday, April 7, 2013, wrote:

Good  noise a v8...  bad noise another asshole on a harly with  open
pipes.....my 650 single dr sounds way better than a harly and a  gold star 
is
even better

---- Original Message  ----
From: MWood24020 <[email-masked]>
To: tsmit  <[email-masked]>; CoolVT  <[email-masked]>
Cc: tigers  <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sun, Apr 7, 2013 4:31  pm
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Chambered exhaust systems?

does

Theo

I can tell you  that in using cheap old glass paks with a stock engine  and
the  same mufflers with a hopped up 302....they are much, much louder  with
the 302.  I shouldn't think a stock engine would be  that  difficult to
muffle.
Mark L

Mike,

Theo

>  pipe.  They do sound good under throttle  and are made very well,  
though!

[demime 1.01d removed an  attachment of type image/jpeg  which had a name  
of
IMG_1333.JPG]
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