Subject: [Tigers] Thoughts on 7" front wheels

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 21:33:04 -0500 (EST)

I'm about to buy some new wheels for my Tiger. Because of the lack of  
quality off the shelf wheels for our cars, I'm leaning towards 15"  diameter 
Panasports. While kind of "belly button" wheels, they are very  well made and 
reasonable cost.
 
The usual 6" front/7" rear fitment has limited appeal, primarily  because 
of the handling compromises that result. I'd like to run 7' all around  with 
equal size tires. 
 
Anyone have direct experience with the 7's and clearances? My valence is  
near stock, we did do some basic smoothing, prior to the car going to paint. 
How  large a tire might fit? (I could see running as small as 195/50-15 at 
all four  corners).
 
Thanks for any thoughts!
Mike Wood
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 23:40:01 -0500 (EST)

Thank, Ross, that is very clear and helpful.
 
Unfortunately, not what I wanted to hear! ;-)
 
My problem is, if both ends of the car are set up to maximize  available 
grip, the car will push (given stock suspension) with a smaller front  
rim...running equal size tires won't address, as the rear's will have better  
sidewall/tread control . I can adjust set up to minimize, but that isn't my  
first choice.
 
I don't see going to 16's, mostly because we can expect better tires  in 
the 15" diameter, going forward...at least, based on discussions we've been  
having with the providers (Toyo, BFG, Kumho, Hankook) to SCCA Solo.

 

In a message dated 2/2/2013 8:22:46 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
[email-masked] writes:

Subject:  [Tigers] Thoughts on 7" front wheels

Mike,

15x7 will not work on  the front.  

The rim width and offset to keep the wheel inside the  fender will impact 
the
upper A frame before full lock.  This is why  people go with 6 inch rims on
15's in the front.

If you go to 16's  or 17's the rim will be over the A frame but have new
problems such as  rubber band size tires.  I don't know if there are other
interference  problems with large rims as I have never tried them. 

I have tried 15x7  all around and discovered this truth at a cost of 2K.
Want to buy some  custom made wheels?

Some people I am told addressed this problem by  grinding down the seam on
the A frame to get clearance.  I opted not  to weaken my suspension and went
to 15x 6 in the front and 15x7 with the  proper offsets.  

Problem solved and I am running Kumho 205/55-15  Ecsta 4X  on all 4 wheels
with no clearance problems other than gently  rolling the rear fender wells.

Ross "Commodore Blues" Hulse

I'm  about to buy some new wheels for my Tiger. Because of the lack of
quality  off the shelf wheels for our cars, I'm leaning towards 15"   
diameter
Panasports. While kind of "belly button" wheels, they are  very  well made
and reasonable cost.

The usual 6" front/7" rear  fitment has limited appeal, primarily  because 
of
the handling  compromises that result. I'd like to run 7' all around  with
equal  size tires. 

Anyone have direct experience with the 7's and clearances?  My valence is
near stock, we did do some basic smoothing, prior to the car  going to 
paint.

Thanks for any  thoughts!
Mike  Wood

[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 04:48:52 +0000 (UTC)

I personally like 15 inch wheels with 205/50 tires on 7 inch rims. That is the setup I have for my "street tire class" autocross tires. They give a very nice ride in conjunction with my 450 lb. front springs. My regular street wheels are 16 inch wheels with 7 inch rims with 205/45 tires in the front and 215/40 tires on the back. The result is a bit on the harsh ride side. 

The issue with 7 inch rims on the front is to have the correct backspace. You need a backspace of 4.75 inches to get the wheel and tire to fit reasonably well inside or equal to the outer fender line and still have the wheel clear the suspension control arms at full deflection. Given the width of the 205 tire, you will have to trim off about 1/4 inch of the lower edge of the front valence where it curves back a bit toward the wheel opening for clearance at full steering lock. Many people have done that and the trimming is really not noticeable to any significant degree. I did not have to do any other wheel well or fender lip modification. 

While you are not predisposed to 6 inch rims and narrower tires on the front, keep in mind wider front tires result in a noticeably heavier steering effort especially at low speed. 

Gene 

----- Original Message -----
From: [email-masked] 
To: [email-masked] 
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 8:33:04 PM 
Subject: [Tigers] Thoughts on 7" front wheels 

Thanks for any thoughts! 
Mike Wood 

[email-masked] 

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive 
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked] 
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 05:00:13 +0000 (UTC)

Correction to my initial response. On the rear I did trim the excess inner well lip back at the top to the spot welds for additional clearance. For the most part that just involved trimming off the amount of extra inner fender well metal to the edge of the stock outer fender lip. A minor adjustment in my view. No fender lip rolling involved. 

Gene 

----- Original Message -----
From: [email-masked] 
To: [email-masked] 
Cc: [email-masked] 
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 10:48:52 PM 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Thoughts on 7" front wheels 

Gene 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: [email-masked] 
To: [email-masked] 
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 8:33:04 PM 
Subject: [Tigers] Thoughts on 7" front wheels 

Thanks for any thoughts! 
Mike Wood 

[email-masked] 

[email-masked] 

[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 00:00:56 -0500 (EST)

The 15X7" with 205/50 is what I want to run. A 4.75" backspace is an ET40  
offset, I believe. Any off the shelf options?
 
I hate to trim the valence, as the car was just painted and we welded in a  
nice reinforcing "lip" on the inside of the piece. I'll have to take a 
closer  look, as it is entirely possible that the valence has been trimmed "back 
in the  day". I can compare with the one of the other Tigers at the shop.
 
Not too concerned with steering effort, but that is a great point.
 
My other thought may sound strange, but I'm also considering running 15X6"  
all around with 195/50 Toyos. If I did that, I would make a billet spacer 
(hub  and wheel bore centric) to push the rears out a bit.
 
Thanks for the info!

In a message dated 2/2/2013 8:48:53 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
[email-masked] writes:

I  personally like 15 inch wheels with 205/50 tires on 7 inch rims.  That 
is  the setup I have for my "street tire class" autocross tires.  They give a 
 very nice ride in conjunction with my 450 lb. front springs.  My regular  
street wheels are 16 inch wheels with 7 inch rims with 205/45 tires in the  
front and 215/40 tires on the back.  The result is a bit on the harsh  ride 
side.

The issue with 7 inch rims on the front is to have the  correct backspace.  
You need a backspace of 4.75 inches to get the wheel  and tire to fit 
reasonably well inside or equal to the outer fender line and  still have the 
wheel clear the suspension control arms at full  deflection.  Given the width of 
the 205 tire, you will have to trim off  about 1/4 inch of the lower edge 
of the front valence where it curves back a  bit toward the wheel opening for 
clearance at full steering lock.   Many  people have done that and the 
trimming is really not noticeable to any  significant degree. I did not have to 
do any other wheel well or fender lip  modification.

While you are not predisposed to 6 inch rims and narrower  tires on the 
front, keep in mind wider front tires result in a noticeably  heavier steering 
effort especially at low speed.

Gene

____________________________________
From: [email-masked]
To:  [email-masked]
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 8:33:04  PM
Subject: [Tigers] Thoughts on 7" front wheels

and 
reasonable cost.

The usual 6" front/7" rear fitment  has limited appeal, primarily  because 
of the handling compromises  that result. I'd like to run 7' all around  
with 
equal size tires.  

Thanks for  any thoughts!
Mike  Wood

[email-masked]

Archive:  http://www.team.net/archive
Forums:  http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:  
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 00:02:54 -0500 (EST)

Both front and rear lips are either trimmed or rolled on my car, per Tom  
Hall's methodology :-)

In a message dated 2/2/2013 9:00:14 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
[email-masked] writes:

Correction  to my initial response.  On the rear I did trim the excess 
inner well lip  back at the top to the spot welds for additional clearance.   
For the  most part that just involved trimming off the amount of extra inner 
fender  well metal to the edge of the stock outer fender lip.  A minor 
adjustment  in my view.  No fender lip rolling involved.

Gene
To:  [email-masked]

I personally like 15 inch wheels with  205/50 tires on 7 inch rims. That is 
the setup I have for my "street tire  class" autocross tires. They give a 
very nice ride in conjunction with my 450  lb. front springs. My regular 
street wheels are 16 inch wheels with 7 inch  rims with 205/45 tires in the 
front and 215/40 tires on the back. The result  is a bit on the harsh ride side. 

The issue with 7 inch rims on the  front is to have the correct backspace. 
You need a backspace of 4.75 inches to  get the wheel and tire to fit 
reasonably well inside or equal to the outer  fender line and still have the wheel 
clear the suspension control arms at full  deflection. Given the width of 
the 205 tire, you will have to trim off about  1/4 inch of the lower edge of 
the front valence where it curves back a bit  toward the wheel opening for 
clearance at full steering lock. Many people have  done that and the trimming 
is really not noticeable to any significant degree.  I did not have to do 
any other wheel well or fender lip modification.  

Gene 

----- Original Message  -----
From: [email-masked] 
To: [email-masked] 
Sent:  Saturday, February 2, 2013 8:33:04 PM 
Subject: [Tigers] Thoughts on 7"  front wheels 

Thanks for any thoughts! 
Mike  Wood 

[email-masked] 

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 05:34:17 +0000 (UTC)

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: [email-masked] 
To: [email-masked] 
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 11:32:02 PM 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Thoughts on 7" front wheels 

I do not know if there are any off the shelf wheels to meet your needs. 

VTO Performance has some 15 x 7 inch wheels that have a 5 inch offset which corresponds to a +25mm offset on 7 inch rim.. They can be drilled for the 108mm (4.25 inch) bolt pattern. You might be able to use them with a 5mm spacer in the front. I got their 16 inch x 7 inch wheels back when they were Superlite branded wheels so I cannot really say this would work. There might be an issue with having long enough wheel studs length to give the lug nuts enough turns. 

My autocross wheels are just old 15 inch Mustang turbine/hurricane wheels, with Dunlop Direzza Star Spec tires. I have to run 3 mm spacers front and on those for clearance. 

BTW my 16 inch Superlites were drilled for 1/2 inch studs but the 7/16 lug nuts they supplied made every thing work Might want to see if the 15 inchers they have now can be drilled for 7/16 inch studs if you talk to them. 

Gene 

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: [email-masked] 
To: [email-masked] 
Cc: [email-masked] 
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 11:02:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Thoughts on 7" front wheels 

Both front and rear lips are either trimmed or rolled on my car, per Tom Hall's methodology :-) 

In a message dated 2/2/2013 9:00:14 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email-masked] writes: 

Gene 

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: [email-masked] 
To: [email-masked] 
Cc: [email-masked] 
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 10:48:52 PM 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Thoughts on 7" front wheels 

Gene 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: [email-masked] 
To: [email-masked] 
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 8:33:04 PM 
Subject: [Tigers] Thoughts on 7" front wheels 

Thanks for any thoughts! 
Mike Wood 

[email-masked] 

[email-masked] 

[email-masked]

---

From: Gary Winblad <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 22:13:11 +0000 (UTC)

Hi Mike,
>having with the providers (Toyo, BFG, Kumho, Hankook) to SCCA Solo.
 
Details??

Like you, I need new wheels/tires.  I decided a long time ago that 16's just
don't look proper on a Tiger, 15 sounds like the way to go.
When you figure out the optimum setup, maybe we could get a group purchase
going..  At least my car is still awaiting body and paint so the massaging can be
done based on wheel/tire!

Also, nobody has commented, IIRC, a solution to the wide wheel to a-arm clearance
problem was to use early Alpine upper arms with the bolt on ball joint..  probably as
available (or not) as the dropped spindles but....

Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: [email-masked]
To: ross hulse <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Sent: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 04:40:01 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Thoughts on 7" front wheels

 

 

Mike,

Thanks for any  thoughts!
Mike  Wood

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 15:16:27 -0800

16" look great.  Just check out our tiger on Tigers United web site.  If you 
can't find it, just let me know off line and I will send you a photo or two. 
[email-masked].  Jerry and Marlene with the candy apple tiger.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Gary Winblad
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 2:13 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Thoughts on 7" front wheels

Hi Mike,

Details??

going..  At least my car is still awaiting body and paint so the massaging 
can be

Also, nobody has commented, IIRC, a solution to the wide wheel to a-arm 
clearance
problem was to use early Alpine upper arms with the bolt on ball joint.. 
probably as
available (or not) as the dropped spindles but....

Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: [email-masked]
To: ross hulse <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Sent: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 04:40:01 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Thoughts on 7" front wheels

Mike,

Thanks for any  thoughts!
Mike  Wood

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 20:37:20 -0500 (EST)

If you look at the new BFG Rival, Dunlop ZII and the existing ultra  high 
performance street tires, you'll see what I mean about more 15's than  
16's...and it will become more clear cut when the new Bridgestone, Toyo and  Kumho 
entries to the segment are released over the next 3-12 months.
 
I think there are two primary reasons: First, you have cars like the NA/NB  
Miatas and other light cars that lots of folks use for track days, 
autocross and  other enthusiast applications. The 15" provides a good combo of 
outside diameter  (gearing, CG, etc with a reasonable aspect ratio), light weight 
and clearance  for brakes. Second, the 16" diameter just never really 
caught on...too big for  the little light cars and too small for the heavier 
performance cars, which have  gone straight to 18's, on the way to the 19's and 
even 20's common today.
 
So, the reps we talk to feel that there just isn't enough of a market for  
16's to warrant covering that market in the ultra high performance segment,  
which is already a bit of a niche.

In a message dated 2/4/2013 2:13:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
[email-masked] writes:

Hi  Mike,

Details??

Like you, I need  new wheels/tires.  I decided a long time ago that 16's 
just

Gary

----- Original Message  -----
From: [email-masked]
To: ross hulse  <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Sent: Sun, 03 Feb  2013 04:40:01 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Thoughts on 7" front  wheels

My  problem is, if both ends of the car are set up to  maximize  available 
grip, the car will push (given stock  suspension) with a smaller front  
rim...running equal size tires  won't address, as the rear's will have 
better  
sidewall/tread  control . I can adjust set up to minimize, but that isn't  
my  
first choice.

I don't see going to 16's, mostly  because we can expect better tires  in 
the 15" diameter, going  forward...at least, based on discussions we've 
been  
having with  the providers (Toyo, BFG, Kumho, Hankook) to SCCA  Solo.

Mike,

Some people I am told addressed this problem  by  grinding down the seam on
the A frame to get  clearance.  I opted not  to weaken my suspension and  
went
to 15x 6 in the front and 15x7 with the  proper  offsets.  

Problem solved and I am running Kumho  205/55-15  Ecsta 4X  on all 4 wheels
with no clearance  problems other than gently  rolling the rear fender  
wells.

The  usual 6" front/7" rear  fitment has limited appeal,  primarily  
because 
of
the handling  compromises  that result. I'd like to run 7' all  around  with
equal  size tires. 

Thanks for  any  thoughts!
Mike  Wood

[email-masked]

[email-masked]