Subject: [Tigers] MK II wiring help

From: " Ron Fraser" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:19:12 -0400

I'm working on a MK II.
 
I noticed the brown wires for the ammeter come out the drivers side harness
grommet and snake around the front top of the engine.
This seems incorrect to me but I'm a novice when it come to Mk II details.
MK II guidance needed.
 
Ron Fraser
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From: " Ron Fraser" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 10:54:34 -0400

I want to clarify my request.

	I need to know how the Mk II amp gage wire harness is loomed through
the car and how the amp gage harness is spliced into the Mk II wiring.

	I believe the wire harness I'm looking at is from Rootes, it seems
correct but I need to inspect it further.   I simply don't like the way it
is loomed under the steering and over the front of the engine; too many
moving parts.

	I think the harness should be loomed behind the dash to the right
side then out to the alternator; if that is how the Mk II amp gage is
suppose to be splice into the wiring.  This would make a cleaner looking
install and get the harness away from moving parts.   I have not accurately
measured the full length of this harness to see if it is long enough to
move; it is somewhere over 60" long.

Thanks
Ron Fraser

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 7:19 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Tigers] MK II wiring help

I'm working on a MK II.

I noticed the brown wires for the ammeter come out the drivers side harness
grommet and snake around the front top of the engine. This seems incorrect
to me but I'm a novice when it come to Mk II details. MK II guidance needed.

Ron Fraser

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 15:01:17 +0000

Perhaps the better question is how to wire the ammeter with a shunt. Many ammeters are wired with the full power going through the dash. I am working in Texas this week. So I don't have access to wiring details. But I know the wiring diagram is available at tigersunited.com.  

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: " Ron Fraser" <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 10:54:34 
To: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Tigers] MK II wiring help

Thanks
Ron Fraser

-----Original Message-----

I'm working on a MK II.

Ron Fraser

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]

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---

From: "Smit, Theo" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 10:05:00 -0500

The shunt is located inside the ammeter itself. This is far from ideal,
because any imperfection in the ammeter wiring, external or internal, causes a
great deal of heat as a result of all the battery charging current being
pumped through it.

Side note: Because the MkII Tigers had an alternator, I thought the ammeter
was no longer an official option? If that's true then whatever wiring you're
seeing was added by the dealer or a PO.

Theo

> From: [email-masked] [mailto:tigers-
> [email-masked]] On Behalf Of [email-masked]
> Sent: April 27, 2012 9:01 AM
> To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Perhaps the better question is how to wire the ammeter with a shunt.
> Many ammeters are wired with the full power going through the dash. I
> am working in Texas this week. So I don't have access to wiring
> details. But I know the wiring diagram is available at
> tigersunited.com.
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
>
>

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From: " Ron Fraser" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 11:44:29 -0400

Theo
	 1235776 - Ammeter - 1 - Mk II
Parts List shows a Mk II ammeter in the Special Accessories section.

I'm not concerned with who might have installed it; I'm concerned with how
it is installed.
I'm not the electrical guy so I can not off hand state if it is installed
correctly.

I'm hoping someone on the list with a Mk II with amp gage can shed some
light on this harness.

Thanks
Ron Fraser

-----Original Message-----
From: Smit, Theo [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 11:05 AM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Tigers] MK II wiring help

The shunt is located inside the ammeter itself. This is far from ideal,
because any imperfection in the ammeter wiring, external or internal, causes
a great deal of heat as a result of all the battery charging current being
pumped through it.

Theo

[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 15:48:13 +0000 (UTC)

Ron, I know you are looking for direct information from a Mark II owner and I do not have a Mark II. But if worst to comes worst, I would say wire it the same as a Mark 1A. I cannot see how it makes a difference if the current is coming from an alternator or a generator once it is converted to direct current. 

The Mark IA wires the ammeter between the battery terminal on the regulator and the battery terminal on the starter solenoid. That effectively wires it directly between the controlled output of the regulator to the battery. It is directly in the path to the battery with full power flowing through it. I suspect the Lucas or Jaeger ammeter is made to function that way. I would bet that the 60 inch or so wire from the ammeter is about long enough to get from the ammeter to the starter solenoid. Is it connected to the ammeter? If it is meant to go to the starter solenoid, it would be connected to the output terminal of the ammeter. 

There would need to be a much shorter wire connecting the ammeter input terminal to the "A" terminal of the alternator "control box". I believe the factory original alternator "control box" is in the same general location as the generator regulator is mounted, is it not? How the wire gets back through the firewall from the meter to the starter solenoid I have no idea. When the dealer installed mine back in the '67 they just spliced it into the factory wire that went from the regulator to the starter solenoid on the engine bay side next to the regulator. I would expect that original factory wire on my Mark IA from the regulator directly to the solenoid is in some wire loom under the dash going to the passenger side of the car and then into the engine bay. I can have a look if you would like. 

Gene 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Fraser" <[email-masked]> 
To: [email-masked], [email-masked] 
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:54:34 AM 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] MK II wiring help 

Thanks 
Ron Fraser 

-----Original Message----- 

I'm working on a MK II. 

Ron Fraser 

[email-masked] 

[email-masked] 

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked] 

[email-masked]

---

From: "Smit, Theo" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 10:51:33 -0500

Hi Ron,
I understand... so the ammeter was either a factory option or a dealer
installed part, but either way not all MkII's would have the required wiring.
Just saw Gene's note come in... his observations make sense to me. Alternator
or gen doesn't really make a lot of difference, because the ammeter is
intended to measure the current flowing to and from the battery (aside from
the starter current). If the existing ammeter wiring appears to intercept the
alternator output, then that's incorrect.

Theo

> From: Ron Fraser [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: April 27, 2012 9:44 AM
> To: Smit, Theo; [email-masked]; [email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: " Ron Fraser" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 12:10:59 -0400

Theo
	This harness is spliced into the Big brown wire at the alternator.
The ends at the amp gage look like Rootes style covered connections.  I have
not pulled any of the tape off at the alternator to check how it is splice
at the alternator.

	This system seems to be working OK.   I did check that there was
over 13V at the battery; however I did notice that I thought the ignition
light stayed on longer than usual.   I have been working on other parts of
this Tiger to bring it up to roadworthy and the amp gage harness was
something I spotted just before I left for the day.

Ron Fraser

-----Original Message-----
From: Smit, Theo [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 11:52 AM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Tigers] MK II wiring help

Hi Ron,
I understand... so the ammeter was either a factory option or a dealer
installed part, but either way not all MkII's would have the required
wiring. Just saw Gene's note come in... his observations make sense to me.
Alternator or gen doesn't really make a lot of difference, because the
ammeter is intended to measure the current flowing to and from the battery
(aside from the starter current). If the existing ammeter wiring appears to
intercept the alternator output, then that's incorrect.

Theo

> I'm not concerned with who might have installed it; I'm concerned with
> how it is installed.
> I'm hoping someone on the list with a Mk II with amp gage can shed
> some light on this harness.
>
> Thanks
> Ron Fraser
>
>
>
> The shunt is located inside the ammeter itself. This is far from
> ideal, because any imperfection in the ammeter wiring, external or
> internal, causes a great deal of heat as a result of all the battery
> charging current being
> pumped through it.
>
> Side note: Because the MkII Tigers had an alternator, I thought the
> ammeter was no longer an official option? If that's true then whatever
> wiring you're
> > Many ammeters are wired with the full power going through the dash.
> > I am working in Texas this week. So I don't have access to wiring

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From: " Ron Fraser" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 12:22:12 -0400

Gene
    The first alarm went off when I noticed the wire harness at the front of
the engine.   2nd alarm went off when I saw it was 2 big brown wires spliced
into the brown wire at the alternator.

    Like I said I'm not very good when it comes to some of the electrical
things.   I generally understand some of the principals but not details.

I have no idea how or where to splice in an amp gage into the Mk II
alternator system.

Ron Fraser

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 11:48 AM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Tigers] MK II wiring help

Ron, I know you are looking for direct information from a Mark II owner and
I do not have a Mark II.  But if worst to comes worst, I would say wire it
the same as a Mark 1A.  I cannot see how it makes a difference if the
current is coming from an alternator or a generator once it is converted to
direct current.

The Mark IA wires the ammeter between the battery terminal on the regulator
and the battery terminal on the starter solenoid.  That effectively wires it
directly between the controlled output of the regulator to the battery.  It
is directly in the path to the battery with full power flowing through it.
I suspect the Lucas or Jaeger ammeter is made to function that way.  I would
bet that the 60 inch or so wire from the ammeter is about long enough to get
from the ammeter to the starter solenoid.  Is it connected to the ammeter?
If it is meant to go to the starter solenoid, it would be connected to the
output terminal of the ammeter.

There would need to be a much shorter wire connecting the ammeter input
terminal to the "A" terminal of the alternator "control box".  I believe the
factory original alternator "control box" is in the same general location as
the generator regulator  is mounted, is it not?  How the wire gets back
through the firewall from the meter to the starter solenoid I have no idea.
When the dealer installed mine back in the '67 they just spliced it into the
factory wire that went from the regulator to the starter solenoid on the
engine bay side next to the regulator.  I would expect that original factory
wire on my Mark IA from the regulator directly to the solenoid is in some
wire loom under the dash going to the passenger side of the car and then
into the engine bay.  I can have a look if you would like.

Gene

  _____

Thanks
Ron Fraser

-----Original Message-----

I'm working on a MK II.

Ron Fraser

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

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From: "Thomas Witt" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 13:20:12 -0700

Both to possibly assist Ron and quell my own curiosity:

A. Is he function of the ammeter to show all and any load on the battery 
(less the starter of course)?

Or:

B. Is it to show the output of the alternator regardless of the load on the 
battery?

Each requires a different wiring scheme.

"A" would show all load, but it would be somewhat speculative to the 
functionality of the alternator.

"B" would show the functionality of the alternator, but not the total 
potential load draw on the battery.

It seems that two ammeters wired (differently) for both the "A" and "B" 
senarios would be ideal.

Tom 

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