Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Need help with my 67 Sprite clutch

From: Rick Fisk via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 10:58:53 -0400

Phil has more than 0.172" movement at the pressure plate by my eyeball measurement.  My guess is Phil is right and the clutch plate is backwards.

------------------------

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets  http://autox.team.net/archive

---

From: Ron Soave via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 13:04:15 -0500

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That=E2=80=99s all the throw it needs to =E2=80=9Cthrow out=E2=80=9D when he=
althy. Tilton clearly recommends no more than .25=E2=80=9D throw total. Anym=
ore and you=E2=80=99re just driving the pressure plate over center.=20

Ron Soave

> On Jul 11, 2021, at 9:34 AM, David Lieb <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> 0.172"???
> Seems rather tiny...
>=20
>> On Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 08:17 Ron Soave via Spridgets <[email-masked]=
.net> wrote:
>> I made a =E2=80=9Cgauge=E2=80=9D a few years ago after the late great Pau=
l A and I talked about this. .172=E2=80=9D was the magic number.=20
>>=20
>> Ron Soave
>>=20
>>>> On Jul 10, 2021, at 10:24 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <spridgets@autox.=
team.net> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>> =EF=BB=BF
>>> Hi Phil,
>>>=20
>>> 3/8" movement at the slave should be enough.  Here is a video that I mad=
e a couple of years ago that shows a properly working clutch on a 1275.
>>>=20
>>> Rick
>>>=20
>>> <Video.MOV>
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>>> On Jul 10, 2021, at 11:08 PM, Phil Sarikas via Spridgets <spridgets@au=
tox.team.net> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>> =EF=BB=BF
>>>> Well,   Sadly it took longer that I had hoped as my ezbleed failed cata=
strophically and created quite the mess. I was unable to bleed it the classi=
c way and now own a harbor freight bleeder and have what feels like a proper=
 pedal.  That bind said, I measure 3/8 of and inch of travel at the slave cy=
linder and 3/4 of and inch of movement at the master cylinder. Based on my u=
nderstood diameters of 0.7 inch diameter for the master and 1.0 on the slave=
, this movement is within my limited ability to measure displacement at each=
 end.=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Overnight I will see if I can get a reasonable view of the throw out be=
aring
>>>>=20
>>>> Any thoughts on where to look next?  Time to get and adapter to used th=
e smaller cylinder from the 1098?  Has that been done by anyone who can shar=
e how they did it?
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks, Phil
>>>>=20
>>>>> On Jul 5, 2021, at 7:54 PM, Phil Sarikas <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>>> =EF=BB=BF Great question on the movement distance.  I did not measure i=
t and at this moment the slave cylinder is on the bench either awaiting repl=
acement or a new seal in it. I am not sure what you mean by return spring, I=
 did reuse the clips that hold it to the clutch fork. If necessary , I will p=
ut the slave cylinder back in as soon as I can. =20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Thanks, Phil
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Jul 5, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Jim Seippel <[email-masked]> wrot=
e:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> =EF=BB=BF
>>>>>> When you push the clutch one time to the bottom of the pedal, how far=
 dues the slave cylinder rod travel? Did you put a return spring on the rele=
ase bearing arm?
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> From: Spridgets <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Phil S=
arikas via Spridgets
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2021 12:45 PM
>>>>>> To: [email-masked]
>>>>>> Subject: [Spridgets] Need help with my 67 Sprite clutch
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I need the help of this group to get my clutch working as well as can=
 be.  The car is any early 67 sprite with a 1275 and the standard ribcage tr=
ansmission.  At this point, everything in the hydraulic system has been repl=
aced over the 20 years I have owned the car. =20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> Over the winter/spring, I had the engine out and did some work to red=
uce the overall oil leaks and did replace the needle bearings in the transmi=
ssion, and a new throwout bearing but nothing that opened up the clutch hydr=
aulic system. =20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> Put it all back together and went for a drive and the clutch was clea=
rly not working correctly, I could get it to shift but it often required me t=
o pump the clutch several times to get it to shift correctly and could only g=
et it into reverse if I went to the path of turning off the motor and restar=
ting it in reverse.  Not a place I can stay.  I bled it as completely as I c=
ould with my EZ-Bleed and tried it again.  I wish I could say it was better,=
 but no real change. =20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> I have pulled the slave cylinder, no signs of leaks, and no real sign=
s of pitting in the cylinder, and I was going to rebuild it as well as the m=
aster but turns that my box of parts has 2 seal kits for the master cylinder=
, and none for the slave cylinder.  As I wait for the local shop to open on T=
uesday, I looked around on this site and others, and it seems that some have=
 successfully applied the smaller cylinder from a 1098 on the 1275, same tra=
nsmission, bolts up but needs a shorter pin, but how does the hydraulic part=
 work?  There is no equivalent rubber pipe on the earlier cars?  I like the r=
ubber connection so I would need some work of an adapter to cover from what a=
ppears to be a 7/16 fine thread (20?) on the pipe (adaptor would need to be f=
emale) To a 3/8 fine (24?) On the 1098 slave cylinder (adaptor would need to=
 be male).  Is there such an adapter off the shelf? =20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> Is there a downside to the smaller diameter slave cylinder other than=
 perhaps a bit more force to move the pedal?  I did check with a camera, I a=
m getting movement as soon as the clutch pedal is depressed, just not enough=
 movement to fully disengage the engine from the transmission. =20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> Open to any and all input!
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> Thanks, Phil
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Thanks, Phil
>>>>>>=20
>>>> ------------------------
>>>>=20
>>>> [email-masked]
>>>>=20
>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>>>=20
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets  http://autox.team.net=
/archive
>>>>=20
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/ref=
[email-masked]
>>> ------------------------
>>>=20
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>>>=20
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>>=20
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets  http://autox.team.net/=
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">That=E2=80=99s all the throw it needs to =E2=
=80=9Cthrow out=E2=80=9D when healthy. Tilton clearly recommends no more tha=
n .25=E2=80=9D throw total. Anymore and you=E2=80=99re just driving the pres=
sure plate over center.&nbsp;<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Ron Soave</div><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jul 11, 2021, at 9:34 AM, David L=
ieb &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"auto">0.172"???<div di=
r=3D"auto">Seems rather tiny...</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 08:17 Ron Soave vi=
a Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">spridgets@autox.=
team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"a=
uto">I made a =E2=80=9Cgauge=E2=80=9D a few years ago after the late great P=
aul A and I talked about this. .172=E2=80=9D was the magic number.&nbsp;<br>=
<br><div dir=3D"ltr">Ron Soave</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D=
"cite">On Jul 10, 2021, at 10:24 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">spridg=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=
=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Phil,</div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">3/8" movement at the slave should be enough=
.&nbsp; Here is a video that I made a couple of years ago that shows a prope=
rly working clutch on a 1275.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">Rick</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div>&lt;Vide=
o.MOV&gt;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite">On Jul 10, 2021, at 11:08 PM, Phil Sarikas via Spridgets &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferre=
r">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockq=
uote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

<div dir=3D"ltr">Well, &nbsp; Sadly it took longer that I had hoped as my ez=
bleed failed catastrophically and created quite the mess. I was unable to bl=
eed it the classic way and now own a harbor freight bleeder and have what fe=
els like a proper pedal.&nbsp; That bind
 said, I measure 3/8 of and inch of travel at the slave cylinder and 3/4 of a=
nd inch of movement at the master cylinder. Based on my understood diameters=
 of 0.7 inch diameter for the master and 1.0 on the slave, this movement is w=
ithin my limited ability to
 measure displacement at each end.&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Overnight I will see if I can get a reasonable view of the t=
hrow out bearing</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Any thoughts on where to look next?&nbsp; Time to get and a=
dapter to used the smaller cylinder from the 1098?&nbsp; Has that been done b=
y anyone who can share how they did it?<br>
<br>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks, Phil</div>
<div id=3D"m_-7978097081897157848AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_-7978097081897157848AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">On Jul 5, 2=
021, at 7:54 PM, Phil Sarikas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF Great question on the movement distance.&nbsp; I d=
id not measure it and at this moment the slave cylinder is on the bench eith=
er awaiting replacement or a new seal in it. I am not sure what you mean by r=
eturn spring, I did reuse the clips that hold
 it to the clutch fork. If necessary , I will put the slave cylinder back in=
 as soon as I can. &nbsp;<br>
<br>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks, Phil</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jul 5, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Jim Seippel &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">ase=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

=20

<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-ser=
if">When you push the clutch one time to the bottom of the pedal, how far du=
es the slave cylinder rod travel? Did you put a return spring on the release=
 bearing arm?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-ser=
if">Jim<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-ser=
if"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spridget=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">spridgets-bou=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; <b>
On Behalf Of </b>Phil Sarikas via Spridgets<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 05, 2021 12:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Spridgets] Need help with my 67 Sprite clutch<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica Neue&quot;,serif">I need the help of this group to get my clutch work=
ing as well as can be.&nbsp; The car is any early 67 sprite with a 1275 and t=
he standard ribcage transmission.&nbsp; At this point,
 everything in the hydraulic system has been replaced over the 20 years I ha=
ve owned the car. &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;min-height:12px">
<span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,serif"=
><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0in;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,serif">Over the winter/spring, I had t=
he engine out and did some work to reduce the overall oil leaks and did repl=
ace the needle
 bearings in the transmission, and a new throwout bearing but nothing that o=
pened up the clutch hydraulic system. &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;min-height:12px">
<span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,serif"=
><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0in;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,serif">Put it all back together and we=
nt for a drive and the clutch was clearly not working correctly, I could get=
 it to shift
 but it often required me to pump the clutch several times to get it to shif=
t correctly and could only get it into reverse if I went to the path of turn=
ing off the motor and restarting it in reverse.&nbsp; Not a place I can stay=
.&nbsp; I bled it as completely as I could
 with my EZ-Bleed and tried it again.&nbsp; I wish I could say it was better=
, but no real change. &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;min-height:12px">
<span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,serif"=
><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0in;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,serif">I have pulled the slave cylinde=
r, no signs of leaks, and no real signs of pitting in the cylinder, and I wa=
s going to
 rebuild it as well as the master but turns that my box of parts has 2 seal k=
its for the master cylinder, and none for the slave cylinder.&nbsp; As I wai=
t for the local shop to open on Tuesday, I looked around on this site and ot=
hers, and it seems that some have
 successfully applied the smaller cylinder from a 1098 on the 1275, same tra=
nsmission, bolts up but needs a shorter pin, but how does the hydraulic part=
 work?&nbsp; There is no equivalent rubber pipe on the earlier cars?&nbsp; I=
 like the rubber connection so I would
 need some work of an adapter to cover from what appears to be a&nbsp;7/16&n=
bsp;fine thread (20?) on the pipe (adaptor would need to be female) To a 3/8=
 fine (24?) On the 1098 slave cylinder (adaptor would need to be male).&nbsp=
; Is there such an adapter off the shelf? &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;min-height:12px">
<span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,serif"=
><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0in;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,serif">Is there a downside to the smal=
ler diameter slave cylinder other than perhaps a bit more force to move the p=
edal?&nbsp; I did
 check with a camera, I am getting movement as soon as the clutch pedal is d=
epressed, just not enough movement to fully disengage the engine from the tr=
ansmission. &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;min-height:12px">
<span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,serif"=
><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0in;font-stretch:normal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,serif">Open to any and all input!<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;min-height:12px">
<span style=3D"font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,serif"=
><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;=
,serif">Thanks, Phil<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks, Phil<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>

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