Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] New engine for a Honda? RESOLUTION

From: Jim Stone <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2025 18:25:26 -0500

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I thought I would resurrect Moose=E2=80=99s discussion to share a recent =
article from Haggerty on the use of AI to diagnose vehicle problems.  In =
a nutshell, their experience mirrors Moose=E2=80=99s and suggests we =
might all want to add ChatGTP into our toolboxes.

=
https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/tested-is-ai-your-next-=
classic-car-mechanic/?utm_source=3DSFMC&utm_medium=3Demail&utm_content=3DM=
ED_UN_NA_EML_UN_UN_WeekendRoadTrip&hashed_email=3Dc8a202749fb3ee180da46bc0=
1753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e&dtm_em=3Dc8a202749fb3ee180da46bc0=
1753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e

> On Nov 21, 2025, at 6:42=E2=80=AFPM, Moose <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Well gurus, I fixed the Honda and I'm almost embarrassed to say it.=20
>=20
> First, I checked the intake for oil thinking that would show me if it =
was a pcv valve that failed.  It was clean.=20
>=20
> HOWEVER, I didn't realize the best way to check them is to just pull =
them out and replace them. (It was $4.50 and $8 for the grommet.)  =
Actually, if you pull them out and shake them, you should hear it =
rattle.=20
>=20
> Well, I replaced it. And no more oil leak!!!!!  I also borescoped the =
cylinders (all were near perfect) and replaced the spark plugs while I =
was there.  Car runs much smoother now as a result!=20
>=20
> So, who was the winner that told me this...=20
>=20
> AI.  That is right, I put the question to ChatGPT and that was the =
first thing it told me to try.  It gave me a nice list of things to try =
in order.=20
>=20
> Since I figured, I was on a roll, I pushed on.  One of the problems =
with the car that we never had the 'radio security code' and after a =
battery replacement, the radio was locked.=20
>=20
> So I found a link to a Honda site where you can recover the codes, but =
it required the S/N of the radio (and car VIN.)  No problem I figured.  =
Taking the radio out was 2 clips and 3 screws to get the dash off of it. =
 HOWEVER, there was a surprise hidden for 'non-Honda' mechanics that may =
try to do this.  The button for the hazard lights has an electrical =
connector attached to it.  Like all automotive connectors, it requires a =
magic spell, 2 incantations, and a bit of unicorn farts to disconnect it =
(Seriously, why can't they standardize electrical connectors?)  =20
> Anyway, when you get it apart, the spring that returns the hazard =
light button is held in-between the switch and the connector.  So guess =
where this spring shoots one you disconnect the plug.  That's right, =
straight into the depths of the dash board.  CRUD!=20
>=20
> Luckily, I found a spring that worked in my 'springs and things' draw =
and was able to get it all back together. So the car now has a radio as =
well.=20
>=20
> In the end, I'm a happy man and the SO thinks I can walk on water.  =
Don't worry, I'm sure I'll screw up soon enough to dispel that image.  =
8>)=20
>=20
> Moose_______________________________________________
>=20
> [email-masked]
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk =
http://autox.team.net/archive
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">I thought I =
would resurrect Moose=E2=80=99s discussion to share a recent article =
from Haggerty on the use of AI to diagnose vehicle problems. &nbsp;In a =
nutshell, their experience mirrors Moose=E2=80=99s and suggests we might =
all want to add ChatGTP into our toolboxes.<div><br></div><div><div =
style=3D"display: block;"><div style=3D"-webkit-user-select: all; =
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</div></div><br id=3D"lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>On Nov 21, 2025, at 6:42=E2=80=AFPM, Moose =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"sans-serif">Well gurus, I fixed the Honda and I'm almost
embarrassed to say it.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">First, I checked the intake for =
oil
thinking that would show me if it was a pcv valve that failed. &nbsp;It
was clean.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">HOWEVER, I didn't realize the =
best way
to check them is to just pull them out and replace them. (It was $4.50
and $8 for the grommet.) &nbsp;Actually, if you pull them out and shake
them, you should hear it rattle.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Well, I replaced it. And no =
more oil
leak!!!!! &nbsp;I also borescoped the cylinders (all were near perfect)
and replaced the spark plugs while I was there. &nbsp;Car runs much =
smoother
now as a result!</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">So, who was the winner that =
told me
this...</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">AI. &nbsp;That is right, I put =
the question
to ChatGPT and that was the first thing it told me to try. &nbsp;It gave
me a nice list of things to try in order.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Since I figured, I was on a =
roll, I
pushed on. &nbsp;One of the problems with the car that we never had the
'radio security code' and after a battery replacement, the radio was =
locked.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">So I found a link to a Honda =
site where
you can recover the codes, but it required the S/N of the radio (and car
VIN.) &nbsp;No problem I figured. &nbsp;Taking the radio out was 2 clips
and 3 screws to get the dash off of it. &nbsp;HOWEVER, there was a =
surprise
hidden for 'non-Honda' mechanics that may try to do this. &nbsp;The =
button
for the hazard lights has an electrical connector attached to it. =
&nbsp;Like
all automotive connectors, it requires a magic spell, 2 incantations, =
and
a bit of unicorn farts to disconnect it (Seriously, why can't they =
standardize
electrical connectors?) &nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Anyway, when you get it apart, =
the spring
that returns the hazard light button is held in-between the switch and
the connector. &nbsp;So guess where this spring shoots one you =
disconnect
the plug. &nbsp;That's right, straight into the depths of the dash =
board.
&nbsp;CRUD!</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Luckily, I found a spring that =
worked
in my 'springs and things' draw and was able to get it all back =
together.
So the car now has a radio as well.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">In the end, I'm a happy man and =
the
SO thinks I can walk on water. &nbsp;Don't worry, I'm sure I'll screw up
soon enough to dispel that image. &nbsp;8&gt;)</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"sans-serif">Moose</font>__________________________________________=
_____<br><br>[email-masked]<br>Donate: =
&nbsp;$12.96<br>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk =
http://autox.team.net/archive<br><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]<br><b=
r></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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---

From: Jimmie Mayfield <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2025 20:15:15 -0500

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ChatGPT and Gemini and Claude are useful tools.  But I've run into a 
couple situations where AI answers, Gemini's in particular, were 
complete fabrications.  Most recently, I'd asked Gemini to summarize the 
backstory for an online novel that I've been reading.  Gemini's answers 
were completely believable and, in some cases, completely false. 
Descriptions of events that never occurred and events that did occur but 
involved different characters.  (It was fascinating how the answers wove 
a cohesive picture that wound up at the same place as the original novel 
but took a different path to get there.)

Trust but verify is the name of the game.

On 12/18/25 18:25, Jim Stone wrote:
> I thought I would resurrect Moose’s discussion to share a recent 
> article from Haggerty on the use of AI to diagnose vehicle problems. 
>  In a nutshell, their experience mirrors Moose’s and suggests we might 
> all want to add ChatGTP into our toolboxes.
>
> hagerty.com 
> <https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/tested-is-ai-your-next-classic-car-mechanic/?utm_source=SFMC&utm_medium=email&utm_content=MED_UN_NA_EML_UN_UN_WeekendRoadTrip&hashed_email=c8a202749fb3ee180da46bc01753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e&dtm_em=c8a202749fb3ee180da46bc01753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e>
> 	<https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/tested-is-ai-your-next-classic-car-mechanic/?utm_source=SFMC&utm_medium=email&utm_content=MED_UN_NA_EML_UN_UN_WeekendRoadTrip&hashed_email=c8a202749fb3ee180da46bc01753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e&dtm_em=c8a202749fb3ee180da46bc01753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e>
>
> <https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/tested-is-ai-your-next-classic-car-mechanic/?utm_source=SFMC&utm_medium=email&utm_content=MED_UN_NA_EML_UN_UN_WeekendRoadTrip&hashed_email=c8a202749fb3ee180da46bc01753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e&dtm_em=c8a202749fb3ee180da46bc01753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e>
>
>
>> On Nov 21, 2025, at 6:42 PM, Moose <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>> Well gurus, I fixed the Honda and I'm almost embarrassed to say it.
>>
>> First, I checked the intake for oil thinking that would show me if it 
>> was a pcv valve that failed.  It was clean.
>>
>> HOWEVER, I didn't realize the best way to check them is to just pull 
>> them out and replace them. (It was $4.50 and $8 for the grommet.) 
>>  Actually, if you pull them out and shake them, you should hear it 
>> rattle.
>>
>> Well, I replaced it. And no more oil leak!!!!!  I also borescoped the 
>> cylinders (all were near perfect) and replaced the spark plugs while 
>> I was there.  Car runs much smoother now as a result!
>>
>> So, who was the winner that told me this...
>>
>> AI.  That is right, I put the question to ChatGPT and that was the 
>> first thing it told me to try.  It gave me a nice list of things to 
>> try in order.
>>
>> Since I figured, I was on a roll, I pushed on.  One of the problems 
>> with the car that we never had the 'radio security code' and after a 
>> battery replacement, the radio was locked.
>>
>> So I found a link to a Honda site where you can recover the codes, 
>> but it required the S/N of the radio (and car VIN.)  No problem I 
>> figured.  Taking the radio out was 2 clips and 3 screws to get the 
>> dash off of it.  HOWEVER, there was a surprise hidden for 'non-Honda' 
>> mechanics that may try to do this.  The button for the hazard lights 
>> has an electrical connector attached to it.  Like all automotive 
>> connectors, it requires a magic spell, 2 incantations, and a bit of 
>> unicorn farts to disconnect it (Seriously, why can't they standardize 
>> electrical connectors?)
>> Anyway, when you get it apart, the spring that returns the hazard 
>> light button is held in-between the switch and the connector.  So 
>> guess where this spring shoots one you disconnect the plug.  That's 
>> right, straight into the depths of the dash board.  CRUD!
>>
>> Luckily, I found a spring that worked in my 'springs and things' draw 
>> and was able to get it all back together. So the car now has a radio 
>> as well.
>>
>> In the end, I'm a happy man and the SO thinks I can walk on water. 
>>  Don't worry, I'm sure I'll screw up soon enough to dispel that 
>> image.  8>)
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>

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    <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF=
-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">ChatGPT and Gemini and Claude are
      useful tools.=C2=A0 But I've run into a couple situations where AI
      answers, Gemini's in particular, were complete fabrications.=C2=A0 =
Most
      recently, I'd asked Gemini to summarize the backstory for an
      online novel that I've been reading.=C2=A0 Gemini's answers were
      completely believable and, in some cases, completely false.=C2=A0
      Descriptions of events that never occurred and events that did
      occur but involved different characters.=C2=A0 (It was fascinating =
how
      the answers wove a cohesive picture that wound up at the same
      place as the original novel but took a different path to get
      there.)</div>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">Trust but verify is the name of the
      game.</div>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 12/18/25 18:25, Jim Stone wrote:<br=
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite"
      cite=3D"mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DU=
TF-8">
      I thought I would resurrect Moose=E2=80=99s discussion to share a r=
ecent
      article from Haggerty on the use of AI to diagnose vehicle
      problems. =C2=A0In a nutshell, their experience mirrors Moose=E2=80=
=99s and
      suggests we might all want to add ChatGTP into our toolboxes.
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>
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        <br id=3D"lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
        <div><br>
          <blockquote type=3D"cite">
            <div>On Nov 21, 2025, at 6:42=E2=80=AFPM, Moose
              <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:eric@mega=
geek.com">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote:</div>
            <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Well gurus, I fixed=

                the Honda and I'm almost
                embarrassed to say it.</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">First, I checked the
                intake for oil
                thinking that would show me if it was a pcv valve that
                failed. =C2=A0It
                was clean.</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">HOWEVER, I didn't real=
ize
                the best way
                to check them is to just pull them out and replace them.
                (It was $4.50
                and $8 for the grommet.) =C2=A0Actually, if you pull them=
 out
                and shake
                them, you should hear it rattle.</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Well, I replaced it. A=
nd
                no more oil
                leak!!!!! =C2=A0I also borescoped the cylinders (all were=

                near perfect)
                and replaced the spark plugs while I was there. =C2=A0Car=

                runs much smoother
                now as a result!</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">So, who was the winner=

                that told me
                this...</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">AI. =C2=A0That is righ=
t, I put
                the question
                to ChatGPT and that was the first thing it told me to
                try. =C2=A0It gave
                me a nice list of things to try in order.</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Since I figured, I was=
 on
                a roll, I
                pushed on. =C2=A0One of the problems with the car that we=

                never had the
                'radio security code' and after a battery replacement,
                the radio was locked.</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">So I found a link to a=

                Honda site where
                you can recover the codes, but it required the S/N of
                the radio (and car
                VIN.) =C2=A0No problem I figured. =C2=A0Taking the radio =
out was 2
                clips
                and 3 screws to get the dash off of it. =C2=A0HOWEVER, th=
ere
                was a surprise
                hidden for 'non-Honda' mechanics that may try to do
                this. =C2=A0The button
                for the hazard lights has an electrical connector
                attached to it. =C2=A0Like
                all automotive connectors, it requires a magic spell, 2
                incantations, and
                a bit of unicorn farts to disconnect it (Seriously, why
                can't they standardize
                electrical connectors?) =C2=A0</font>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Anyway, when you get i=
t
                apart, the spring
                that returns the hazard light button is held in-between
                the switch and
                the connector. =C2=A0So guess where this spring shoots on=
e
                you disconnect
                the plug. =C2=A0That's right, straight into the depths of=
 the
                dash board.
                =C2=A0CRUD!</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Luckily, I found a spr=
ing
                that worked
                in my 'springs and things' draw and was able to get it
                all back together.
                So the car now has a radio as well.</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">In the end, I'm a happ=
y
                man and the
                SO thinks I can walk on water. =C2=A0Don't worry, I'm sur=
e
                I'll screw up
                soon enough to dispel that image. =C2=A08&gt;)</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Moose</font>__________=
_____________________________________<br>
              <br>
              <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:Shop-t=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
              Donate: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://w=
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              Suggested annual donation =C2=A0$12.96<br>
              Archive: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://=
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              <br>
              Unsubscribe/Manage:
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et/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
              <br>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class=3D"moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre wrap=3D"" class=3D"moz-quote-pre">____________________________=
___________________

<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
=2Enet">[email-masked]</a>
nate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://www.team.net/p=
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"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive">http://aut=
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ox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]">ht=
tp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+shoptalk@sackheads=
=2Eorg</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Old Dirtbeard <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2025 01:46:30 +0000

--===============1925173916207488361==
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[email-masked]

--===============1925173916207488361==--

---

From: MIQ MILLMAN <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2025 19:17:36 -0800

--===============7445574308390256205==

--0000000000008e6210064645859f
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

There are many paths up the mountain, but the view is always the same.

Ask the question at least 3 times to get a hint of the true answer is my
experience.

  --Miq

On Thu, Dec 18, 2025 at 5:21=E2=80=AFPM Jimmie Mayfield <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> couple situations where AI answers, Gemini's in particular, were complete
> fabrications.  Most recently, I'd asked Gemini to summarize the backstory
> for an online novel that I've been reading.  Gemini's answers were
> completely believable and, in some cases, completely false.  Descriptions
> of events that never occurred and events that did occur but involved
> different characters.  (It was fascinating how the answers wove a cohesiv=
e
> picture that wound up at the same place as the original novel but took a
> different path to get there.)
>
article
> from Haggerty on the use of AI to diagnose vehicle problems.  In a
all want
> to add ChatGTP into our toolboxes.
>
> hagerty.com
> <https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/tested-is-ai-your-nex=
t-classic-car-mechanic/?utm_source=3DSFMC&utm_medium=3Demail&utm_content=3D=
MED_UN_NA_EML_UN_UN_WeekendRoadTrip&hashed_email=3Dc8a202749fb3ee180da46bc0=
1753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e&dtm_em=3Dc8a202749fb3ee180da46bc01=
753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e>
>
> <https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/tested-is-ai-your-nex=
t-classic-car-mechanic/?utm_source=3DSFMC&utm_medium=3Demail&utm_content=3D=
MED_UN_NA_EML_UN_UN_WeekendRoadTrip&hashed_email=3Dc8a202749fb3ee180da46bc0=
1753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e&dtm_em=3Dc8a202749fb3ee180da46bc01=
753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e>
> <https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/tested-is-ai-your-nex=
t-classic-car-mechanic/?utm_source=3DSFMC&utm_medium=3Demail&utm_content=3D=
MED_UN_NA_EML_UN_UN_WeekendRoadTrip&hashed_email=3Dc8a202749fb3ee180da46bc0=
1753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e&dtm_em=3Dc8a202749fb3ee180da46bc01=
753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e>
>
>
> On Nov 21, 2025, at 6:42=E2=80=AFPM, Moose <[email-masked]> <eric@mega=
geek.com>
> wrote:
> First, I checked the intake for oil thinking that would show me if it was
> a pcv valve that failed.  It was clean.
>
> HOWEVER, I didn't realize the best way to check them is to just pull them
> out and replace them. (It was $4.50 and $8 for the grommet.)  Actually, i=
f
> you pull them out and shake them, you should hear it rattle.
>
> cylinders (all were near perfect) and replaced the spark plugs while I wa=
s
> there.  Car runs much smoother now as a result!
>
> AI.  That is right, I put the question to ChatGPT and that was the first
> thing it told me to try.  It gave me a nice list of things to try in orde=
r.
>
> Since I figured, I was on a roll, I pushed on.  One of the problems with
> the car that we never had the 'radio security code' and after a battery
> replacement, the radio was locked.
>
> So I found a link to a Honda site where you can recover the codes, but it
> required the S/N of the radio (and car VIN.)  No problem I figured.  Taki=
ng
> the radio out was 2 clips and 3 screws to get the dash off of it.  HOWEVE=
R,
> there was a surprise hidden for 'non-Honda' mechanics that may try to do
> this.  The button for the hazard lights has an electrical connector
> attached to it.  Like all automotive connectors, it requires a magic spel=
l,
> 2 incantations, and a bit of unicorn farts to disconnect it (Seriously, w=
hy
> can't they standardize electrical connectors?)
> Anyway, when you get it apart, the spring that returns the hazard light
> button is held in-between the switch and the connector.  So guess where
> this spring shoots one you disconnect the plug.  That's right, straight
> into the depths of the dash board.  CRUD!
>
> Luckily, I found a spring that worked in my 'springs and things' draw and
> was able to get it all back together. So the car now has a radio as well.
>
> In the end, I'm a happy man and the SO thinks I can walk on water.  Don't
> worry, I'm sure I'll screw up soon enough to dispel that image.  8>)
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar=
chive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfi=
[email-masked]
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

--0000000000008e6210064645859f
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">There are many paths up the mountain, but the view is alwa=
ys the same.<div><br></div><div>Ask the question at least 3 times to get a =
hint of the true answer is my experience.</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 -=
-Miq</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 18, 2025 at 5:21=E2=80=AFPM Jim=
mie Mayfield &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mayfi=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>

 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
    <div>ChatGPT and Gemini and Claude are
      useful tools.=C2=A0 But I&#39;ve run into a couple situations where A=
I
      answers, Gemini&#39;s in particular, were complete fabrications.=C2=
=A0 Most
      recently, I&#39;d asked Gemini to summarize the backstory for an
      online novel that I&#39;ve been reading.=C2=A0 Gemini&#39;s answers w=
ere
      completely believable and, in some cases, completely false.=C2=A0
      Descriptions of events that never occurred and events that did
      occur but involved different characters.=C2=A0 (It was fascinating ho=
w
      the answers wove a cohesive picture that wound up at the same
      place as the original novel but took a different path to get
      there.)</div>
    <div><br>
    </div>
    <div>Trust but verify is the name of the
      game.</div>
    <div><br>
    </div>
    <div><br>
    </div>
    <div>On 12/18/25 18:25, Jim Stone wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      I thought I would resurrect Moose=E2=80=99s discussion to share a rec=
ent
      article from Haggerty on the use of AI to diagnose vehicle
      problems.=C2=A0 In a nutshell, their experience mirrors Moose=E2=80=
=99s and
      suggests we might all want to add ChatGTP into our toolboxes.
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>
        <div style=3D"display:block">
          <div style=3D"display:inline-block" role=3D"link"><a style=3D"bor=
der-radius:10px;font-family:-apple-system,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;displa=
y:block;width:300px;overflow:hidden;text-decoration:none" rel=3D"nofollow" =
href=3D"https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/tested-is-ai-you=
r-next-classic-car-mechanic/?utm_source=3DSFMC&amp;utm_medium=3Demail&amp;u=
tm_content=3DMED_UN_NA_EML_UN_UN_WeekendRoadTrip&amp;hashed_email=3Dc8a2027=
49fb3ee180da46bc01753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e&amp;dtm_em=3Dc8a2=
02749fb3ee180da46bc01753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e" dir=3D"ltr" r=
ole=3D"button" width=3D"300" target=3D"_blank">
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                        <tbody>
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                            <td style=3D"padding:8px 0px">
                              <div style=3D"max-width:100%;margin:0px 16px;=
overflow:hidden">
                                <div style=3D"font-weight:400;font-size:11p=
x;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;text-align:left"><a rel=3D"nofollo=
w" href=3D"https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/tested-is-ai-=
your-next-classic-car-mechanic/?utm_source=3DSFMC&amp;utm_medium=3Demail&am=
p;utm_content=3DMED_UN_NA_EML_UN_UN_WeekendRoadTrip&amp;hashed_email=3Dc8a2=
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8a202749fb3ee180da46bc01753dfea37cacafc792579d503edc6e326ce4e4e" style=3D"t=
ext-decoration:none" target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"#272727" style=3D"col=
or:rgba(0,0,0,0.847)">hagerty.com</font></a></div>
                              </div>
                            </td>
                            <td style=3D"padding:0px 12px 0px 0px" width=3D=
"32"><a rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-=
and-tech/tested-is-ai-your-next-classic-car-mechanic/?utm_source=3DSFMC&amp=
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        </div>
        <br id=3D"m_7286466524931582655lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
        <div><br>
          <blockquote type=3D"cite">
            <div>On Nov 21, 2025, at 6:42=E2=80=AFPM, Moose
              <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">&lt;er=
[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote:</div>
            <br>
            <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Well gurus, I fixed
                the Honda and I&#39;m almost
                embarrassed to say it.</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">First, I checked the
                intake for oil
                thinking that would show me if it was a pcv valve that
                failed.=C2=A0 It
                was clean.</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">HOWEVER, I didn&#39;t re=
alize
                the best way
                to check them is to just pull them out and replace them.
                (It was $4.50
                and $8 for the grommet.) =C2=A0Actually, if you pull them o=
ut
                and shake
                them, you should hear it rattle.</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Well, I replaced it. And
                no more oil
                leak!!!!!=C2=A0 I also borescoped the cylinders (all were
                near perfect)
                and replaced the spark plugs while I was there.=C2=A0 Car
                runs much smoother
                now as a result!</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">So, who was the winner
                that told me
                this...</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">AI.=C2=A0 That is right,=
 I put
                the question
                to ChatGPT and that was the first thing it told me to
                try.=C2=A0 It gave
                me a nice list of things to try in order.</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Since I figured, I was o=
n
                a roll, I
                pushed on.=C2=A0 One of the problems with the car that we
                never had the
                &#39;radio security code&#39; and after a battery replaceme=
nt,
                the radio was locked.</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">So I found a link to a
                Honda site where
                you can recover the codes, but it required the S/N of
                the radio (and car
                VIN.) =C2=A0No problem I figured.=C2=A0 Taking the radio ou=
t was 2
                clips
                and 3 screws to get the dash off of it.=C2=A0 HOWEVER, ther=
e
                was a surprise
                hidden for &#39;non-Honda&#39; mechanics that may try to do
                this.=C2=A0 The button
                for the hazard lights has an electrical connector
                attached to it.=C2=A0 Like
                all automotive connectors, it requires a magic spell, 2
                incantations, and
                a bit of unicorn farts to disconnect it (Seriously, why
                can&#39;t they standardize
                electrical connectors?) =C2=A0</font>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Anyway, when you get it
                apart, the spring
                that returns the hazard light button is held in-between
                the switch and
                the connector.=C2=A0 So guess where this spring shoots one
                you disconnect
                the plug.=C2=A0 That&#39;s right, straight into the depths =
of the
                dash board.
                =C2=A0CRUD!</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Luckily, I found a sprin=
g
                that worked
                in my &#39;springs and things&#39; draw and was able to get=
 it
                all back together.
                So the car now has a radio as well.</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">In the end, I&#39;m a ha=
ppy
                man and the
                SO thinks I can walk on water.=C2=A0 Don&#39;t worry, I&#39=
;m sure
                I&#39;ll screw up
                soon enough to dispel that image. =C2=A08&gt;)</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Moose</font>____________=
___________________________________<br>
              <br>
              <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"=
>[email-masked]</a><br>
              Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
              Suggested annual donation =C2=A0$12.96<br>
              Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a>
              <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
              <br>
              Unsubscribe/Manage:
              <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/17=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options=
/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
              <br>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <pre>_______________________________________________

<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a>
//www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" target=3D"_bla=
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m.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>

alk/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.ne=
t/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
  </div>

_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.tea=
m.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

--===============7445574308390256205==--

---

From: John T Blair <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2025 05:03:18 +0000 (UTC)

--===============9007553726197352288==
	boundary="----=_Part_1333144_541402050.1766120598452"

------=_Part_1333144_541402050.1766120598452
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

   On Thursday, December 18, 2025 at 09:34:23 PM EST, Old Dirtbeard <dirtbe=
[email-masked]> wrote: =20
 >I have been using MS Copilot, it is bundled with Edge for free and can be=
=C2=A0>quite helpful in the initial exploration phase. It can help you to a=
sk the right=C2=A0>questions.....
So with all this AI don't forget about AllData for the DIYers.=C2=A0 You ca=
n get a 1 mo. subscription for $20.=C2=A0 So if you're stumped try that.=C2=
=A0 I keep meaning to as I used one of the commercial on-line diagnostic si=
milar to the "Pro" version of AllData when I was talking auto classes at th=
e local community college.=C2=A0=C2=A0
I haven't been stumped yet.=C2=A0 My son had a problem with his 2011 F150, =
no instrument lights and no start.=C2=A0 We spent about 5 hr. working on it=
 and searching the internet=C2=A0 to no avail. Then he found a youtube vide=
o about the problem.=C2=A0 Turns out a loose connector in the passenger sid=
e front kick panel.=C2=A0 Pulled the panel and sure enough.=C2=A0 Plugged t=
he plug back in and off it went.
These computers and all the support site are our best friends!!!!

JohnT

John T. Blair=C2=A0 WA4OHZ=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 email:=C2=A0 jblair1948@=
cox.netVa. Beach, Va=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Phone:=C2=A0 (757) 495-822=
9

48 TR1800=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 48 #4 Midget=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 65 Morgan 4/4 Se=
ries V (B1106)
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 77 Spitf=
ire=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 71 Saab Sonett III
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 65 Rambler Classi=
c

Morgan:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://autox.team.net/morgan/

Bricklin:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0http://www.bricklin.org
If you can read this=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Thank a teacher!If you are reading it i=
n English - Thank a Vet!!

>From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In God We Trust
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Liberty - the=C2=A0 power=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 choosing,=
=C2=A0 thinking,=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 acting=C2=A0 for=C2=A0=20
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 oneself; freedom=C2=A0 from=C2=A0 control=C2=A0=
 or=C2=A0 restriction=C2=A0=20

 =20
------=_Part_1333144_541402050.1766120598452
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydpff40202yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D=
"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">=
</div><div id=3D"ydp105c71e2yahoo_quoted_6432405698" class=3D"ydp105c71e2ya=
hoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sa=
ns-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42);">
               =20
                <div><font size=3D"3">
                        On Thursday, December 18, 2025 at 09:34:23 PM EST, =
Old Dirtbeard &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                    </font></div>
                    <div><font size=3D"3"><br></font></div>
                    <div><font size=3D"3">&gt;I have been using MS Copilot,=
 it is bundled with Edge for free and can be&nbsp;</font></div><div><font s=
ize=3D"3">&gt;quite helpful in the initial exploration phase. It can help y=
ou to ask the right&nbsp;</font></div><div><font size=3D"3">&gt;questions..=
...</font></div><div><font size=3D"3"><br></font></div><div dir=3D"ltr" dat=
a-setdir=3D"false"><font size=3D"3">So with all this AI don't forget about =
AllData for the DIYers.&nbsp; You can get a 1 mo. subscription for $20.&nbs=
p; So if you're stumped try that.&nbsp; I keep meaning to as I used one of =
the commercial on-line diagnostic similar to the "Pro" version of AllData w=
hen I was talking auto classes at the local community college.&nbsp;&nbsp;<=
/font></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><font size=3D"3"><br></f=
ont></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><font size=3D"3">I haven't=
 been stumped yet.&nbsp; My son had a problem with his 2011 F150, no instru=
ment lights and no start.&nbsp; We spent about 5 hr. working on it and sear=
ching the internet&nbsp; to no avail. Then he found a youtube video about t=
he problem.&nbsp; Turns out a loose connector in the passenger side front k=
ick panel.&nbsp; Pulled the panel and sure enough.&nbsp; Plugged the plug b=
ack in and off it went.</font></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">=
<font size=3D"3"><br></font></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><f=
ont size=3D"3">These computers and all the support site are our best friend=
s!!!!<br></font></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><font size=3D"=
3"><br></font></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><font size=3D"3"=
>JohnT<br></font></div><div><div id=3D"ydp105c71e2yiv2856633829"><div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><div><br><div>
John T. Blair&nbsp; WA4OHZ&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email:&nbsp; jblair1948@=
cox.net</div>
Va. Beach, Va&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Phone:&nbsp; (757) 495-8229<br><br=
48 TR1800&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 48 #4 Midget&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 65 Morgan 4/4 Se=
ries V (B1106)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 77 Spitf=
ire&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 71 Saab Sonett III<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 65 Rambler Classi=
c<br><br>
Morgan:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/morgan/" rel=3D"=
nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/morgan/<br><br></a><div><=
a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/morgan/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"=
 class=3D"">
</a>Bricklin:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.bricklin.o=
rg" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.bricklin.org</a></div><di=
v><br></div><div>If you can read this&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; - Thank a teacher!</div>=
</div><div>If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!<br><br>
>From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In God We Trust<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Liberty - the&nbsp; power&nbsp; of&nbsp; choosing,=
&nbsp; thinking,&nbsp; and&nbsp; acting&nbsp; for&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; oneself; freedom&nbsp; from&nbsp; control&nbsp;=
 or&nbsp; restriction&nbsp; <br><br>
</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br></div><div><br></div=
></div></div></div>
            </div>
        </div></body></html>
------=_Part_1333144_541402050.1766120598452--

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[email-masked]

--===============9007553726197352288==--

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2025 04:58:09 -0500 12/19/2025 04:58:10 AM, Serialize complete at 12/19/2025 04:58:10 AM

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

--===============6686174415405429321==

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

--=_alternative 0036C2CD85258D65_=

John, 

Years ago I used AllData, if I remember correctly, it was mostly just the 
pdfs of the manuals, but not that great.  I remember one time I was 
looking for a sensor on a Mercedes 190D, and the image was just of the 
sensor, but it was an 'illustration' and impossible to figure out where it 
was on the car.

Also, isn't it make specific, or do you get access to all makes/models?

I'm not trying to bad mouth it, but I don't remember it being worth the 
price.  Maybe it's changed.  I'll love to hear more about what you think 
of it, has it gotten better?

But right now, with youtube and AI, I've been getting great results. (but 
I'm always willing to buy another tool!) 8>)

FWIW on the AI side.  The Army released it's own AI and I was totally blow 
away by it.  I had a white paper to write (about 3 pages, in a very 
specific format.)  I just put in the data for each portion of the white 
paper, in normal speaking voice, and in less than 30 seconds, I had a VERY 
professional, perfectly formatted white paper.  It even included some 
additional technical data to expand on what I fed it (and yes, I checked 
it and it was correct.)  I was really impressed.

However, I totally agree that AI needs to be verified and doubled checked. 
 As an instructor in the Army, we have student's try to pass off papers 
that were AI generated and it is very clear what is AI.
I find it's best use is to have it do formatting, and the 'boiler plate' 
work.  The 'substance' needs to come from the person.

Often I need to write a letter or memo, and i just tell it what i need the 
document to say and it formats it perfectly and does all the 'heavy 
lifting' and i just go back and fix/add any details.

Have a great day!
Moose

From:   John T Blair <[email-masked]>
To:     "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date:   12/19/2025 00:08
Subject:        Re: [Shop-talk] New engine for a Honda? RESOLUTION
Sent by:        "Shop-talk" <[email-masked]>

On Thursday, December 18, 2025 at 09:34:23 PM EST, Old Dirtbeard 
<[email-masked]> wrote: 

>I have been using MS Copilot, it is bundled with Edge for free and can be 

>quite helpful in the initial exploration phase. It can help you to ask 
the right 
>questions.....

So with all this AI don't forget about AllData for the DIYers.  You can 
get a 1 mo. subscription for $20.  So if you're stumped try that.  I keep 
meaning to as I used one of the commercial on-line diagnostic similar to 
the "Pro" version of AllData when I was talking auto classes at the local 
community college. 

I haven't been stumped yet.  My son had a problem with his 2011 F150, no 
instrument lights and no start.  We spent about 5 hr. working on it and 
searching the internet  to no avail. Then he found a youtube video about 
the problem.  Turns out a loose connector in the passenger side front kick 
panel.  Pulled the panel and sure enough.  Plugged the plug back in and 
off it went.

JohnT

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  [email-masked]
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    http://autox.team.net/morgan/

Bricklin:     http://www.bricklin.org

If you can read this                   - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

>From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
     e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
     In God We Trust
     Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for 
                  oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction 

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk 
http://autox.team.net/archive

http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

--=_alternative 0036C2CD85258D65_=

<span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">John, </span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">Years ago I used
AllData, if I remember correctly, it was mostly just the pdfs of the manuals,
but not that great. &nbsp;I remember one time I was looking for a sensor
on a Mercedes 190D, and the image was just of the sensor, but it was an
'illustration' and impossible to figure out where it was on the car.</span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">Also, isn't it
make specific, or do you get access to all makes/models?</span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">I'm not trying
to bad mouth it, but I don't remember it being worth the price. &nbsp;Maybe
it's changed. &nbsp;I'll love to hear more about what you think of it,
has it gotten better?</span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">But right now,
with youtube and AI, I've been getting great results. (but I'm always willing
to buy another tool!) 8&gt;)</span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">FWIW on the AI
side. &nbsp;The Army released it's own AI and I was totally blow away by
it. &nbsp;I had a white paper to write (about 3 pages, in a very specific
format.) &nbsp;I just put in the data for each portion of the white paper,
in normal speaking voice, and in less than 30 seconds, I had a VERY professional,
perfectly formatted white paper. &nbsp;It even included some additional
technical data to expand on what I fed it (and yes, I checked it and it
was correct.) &nbsp;I was really impressed.</span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">However, I totally
agree that AI needs to be verified and doubled checked. &nbsp;As an instructor
in the Army, we have student's try to pass off papers that were AI generated
and it is very clear what is AI.</span>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">I find it's best
use is to have it do formatting, and the 'boiler plate' work. &nbsp;The
'substance' needs to come from the person.</span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">Often I need to
write a letter or memo, and i just tell it what i need the document to
say and it formats it perfectly and does all the 'heavy lifting' and i
just go back and fix/add any details.</span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">Have a great day!</span>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">Moose</span>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">From:
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">John
T Blair &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</span>
<br><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">To:
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">&quot;[email-masked]&quot;
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</span>
<br><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Date:
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">12/19/2025
00:08</span>
<br><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Subject:
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">Re:
[Shop-talk] New engine for a Honda? RESOLUTION</span>
<br><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Sent
by: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">&quot;Shop-talk&quot;
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</span>
<br>
<hr noshade>
<br>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial">On Thursday, December
18, 2025 at 09:34:23 PM EST, Old Dirtbeard &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
</span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial">&gt;I have been using
MS Copilot, it is bundled with Edge for free and can be </span>
<br><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial">&gt;quite helpful in
the initial exploration phase. It can help you to ask the right </span>
<br><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial">&gt;questions.....</span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial">So with all this AI
don't forget about AllData for the DIYers. &nbsp;You can get a 1 mo. subscription
for $20. &nbsp;So if you're stumped try that. &nbsp;I keep meaning to as
I used one of the commercial on-line diagnostic similar to the &quot;Pro&quot;
version of AllData when I was talking auto classes at the local community
college. &nbsp;</span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial">I haven't been stumped
yet. &nbsp;My son had a problem with his 2011 F150, no instrument lights
and no start. &nbsp;We spent about 5 hr. working on it and searching the
internet &nbsp;to no avail. Then he found a youtube video about the problem.
&nbsp;Turns out a loose connector in the passenger side front kick panel.
&nbsp;Pulled the panel and sure enough. &nbsp;Plugged the plug back in
and off it went.</span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial">These computers and
all the support site are our best friends!!!!</span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial">JohnT</span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial">John T. Blair &nbsp;WA4OHZ
&nbsp; &nbsp; email: &nbsp;[email-masked]</span>
<br><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial">Va. Beach, Va &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Phone: &nbsp;(757)
495-8229<br>
<br>
48 TR1800 &nbsp; &nbsp;48 #4 Midget &nbsp; &nbsp;65 Morgan 4/4 Series V
(B1106)<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) &nbsp; &nbsp;77 Spitfire &nbsp;
&nbsp;71 Saab Sonett III<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; 65 Rambler Classic<br>
<br>
Morgan: &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><a href=http://autox.team.net/morgan/ target=_blank><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue;font-family:Arial"><u>http://autox.team.net/morgan/<br>
</u></span></a>
<br><a href=http://autox.team.net/morgan/ target=_blank></a><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial">Bricklin:
&nbsp; &nbsp; </span><a href=http://www.bricklin.org/ target=_blank><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue;font-family:Arial"><u>http://www.bricklin.org</u></span></a>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial">If you can read this
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - Thank
a teacher!</span>
<br><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial">If you are reading
it in English - Thank a Vet!!<br>
<br>
>From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; e pluribus Unum, &quot;from many, one.&quot;<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; In God We Trust<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; Liberty - the &nbsp;power &nbsp;of &nbsp;choosing, &nbsp;thinking,
&nbsp;and &nbsp;acting &nbsp;for &nbsp;<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;oneself;
freedom &nbsp;from &nbsp;control &nbsp;or &nbsp;restriction &nbsp;<br>
</span>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><tt><span style=" font-size:10pt">_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
[email-masked]<br>
Archive: </span></tt><a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk"><tt><span style=" font-size:10pt">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</span></tt></a><tt><span style=" font-size:10pt">
</span></tt><a href=http://autox.team.net/archive><tt><span style=" font-size:10pt">http://autox.team.net/archive</span></tt></a><tt><span style=" font-size:10pt"><br>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: John T Blair <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2025 00:12:55 +0000 (UTC)

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   On Friday, December 19, 2025 at 04:58:10 AM EST, [email-masked] <eric=
@megageek.com> wrote: =20
 >Years ago I usedAllData, if I remember correctly, it was mostly just the =
pdfs of the=C2=A0>manuals,but not that great. =C2=A0I remember one time I w=
as looking for a sensoron a=C2=A0>Mercedes 190D, and the image was just of =
the sensor, but it was an'illustration' and=C2=A0>impossible to figure out =
where it was on the car.=20

Interesting.=C2=A0 I don't remember the name of the system we were using at=
 the school as that was back in 2007.=C2=A0 But it was very good.=C2=A0 I h=
ave several friends that are professional mechanics and they have talked ab=
out using alldata and similar systems and appear to be very happy with the =
results.
>Also, isn't itmake specific, or do you get access to all makes/models?
I believe that may still be true.=C2=A0 Like how many of use hobbyist have =
Lambo's we need to work on.=20

>I'm not tryingto bad mouth it, but I don't remember it being worth the pri=
ce. =C2=A0Maybeit's=C2=A0>changed. =C2=A0I'll love to hear more about what =
you think of it,has it gotten better?=20

In the past I'm pretty sure that's why I never used it.=C2=A0 But reciently=
 I've come across several problems on these newer cars that I definitely co=
uld use some help on and I looked into Alldata.=C2=A0 I think they may have=
 changed their DIY usages.=C2=A0 I thought there was one option for a speci=
fic car and one for maybe 2 or 3 cars.=C2=A0 But last time I looked it seem=
ed to be time duration, like 1 mo.=C2=A0 But for a problem problem, $20 for=
 a mo isn't bad, especially if it helps you find the problem.=C2=A0=20

>But right now,with youtube and AI, I've been getting great results. (but I=
'm always willingto=C2=A0>buy another tool!) 8>)=20

I definitely agree.=C2=A0 I was just trying to say there is an additional t=
ool available that may be worth looking to.=C2=A0 Our cell phones and AI su=
re have helped the DIYer.=C2=A0 I can't believe that we ever got along with=
 out these tools.
>FWIW on the AIside. =C2=A0The Army released it's own AI and I was totally =
blow away byit. =C2=A0I=C2=A0>had a white paper to write (about 3 pages, in=
 a very specificformat.) =C2=A0I just put in the data=C2=A0>for each portio=
n of the white paper,in normal speaking voice, and in less than 30 seconds,=
=C2=A0>I had a VERY professional,perfectly formatted white paper. =C2=A0It =
even included some=C2=A0>additionaltechnical data to expand on what I fed i=
t (and yes, I checked it and itwas=C2=A0>correct.) =C2=A0I was really impre=
ssed.=20

I keep hearing stories like this.=C2=A0 I haven't had the need for anything=
 like that now that I'm retired.=C2=A0 But I have taken some long items I'v=
e written and asked AI to help clean them up and maybe shorten them.=C2=A0 =
What I got back wasn't what I was looking for.=C2=A0 I guess I just didn't =
give it the right guidance.=C2=A0 I need more practice.
>However, I totallyagree that AI needs to be verified and doubled checked. =
=C2=A0As an instructor=C2=A0>in the Army, we have student's try to pass off=
 papers that were AI generatedand it is very=C2=A0>clear what is AI.=C2=A0 =
I find it's bestuse is to have it do formatting, and the 'boiler plate' wor=
k.=C2=A0>The'substance' needs to come from the person.=20

True.=C2=A0 I will use MS Doc's to go over something I've written to check =
my grammar and spelling.=C2=A0 It does a great job at that, a lot better th=
an just a spelling checker.=C2=A0 It will catch things like there and their=
 that a spelling checker won't.=C2=A0 But spelling checkers sure were a gre=
at improvement of nothing! =C2=A0 Me being dyslexic my spelling leaves a lo=
t to be desired.
>Have a great day!=20

Thanks, you also!!!
JohnT

=20

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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div id=3D=
"ydpafd781a3yahoo_quoted_6402542146" class=3D"ydpafd781a3yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                        On Friday, December 19, 2025 at 04:58:10 AM EST, er=
[email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                    </div>
                    <div><br></div>
                    <div><div>&gt;<span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family=
:sans-serif;">Years ago I used
AllData, if I remember correctly, it was mostly just the pdfs of the&nbsp;<=
/span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;">&gt=
;manuals,
but not that great. &nbsp;I remember one time I was looking for a sensor
on a&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-=
serif;">&gt;Mercedes 190D, and the image was just of the sensor, but it was=
 an
'illustration' and&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;fon=
t-family:sans-serif;">&gt;impossible to figure out where it was on the car.=
</span> <br></div><div><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Int=
eresting.&nbsp; I don't remember the name of the system we were using at th=
e school as that was back in 2007.&nbsp; But it was very good.&nbsp; I have=
 several friends that are professional mechanics and they have talked about=
 using alldata and similar systems and appear to be very happy with the res=
ults.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
" data-setdir=3D"false">&gt;<span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-=
serif;">Also, isn't it
make specific, or do you get access to all makes/models?</span></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=
sans-serif;"><br></span></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;">I believe that may still b=
e true.&nbsp; Like how many of use hobbyist have Lambo's we need to work on=
. <img title=3D"Emoji" alt=3D"Emoji" class=3D"yahoo-emoji-wrapper" src=3D"h=
ttps://s.yimg.com/nq/yemoji_assets/latest/yemoji_assets/1f642.png" style=3D=
"padding: 0px 2px; vertical-align: middle;" data-inlineimagemanipulating=3D=
"true" width=3D"16" height=3D"16"><br></span>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none"><div><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-seri=
f;">&gt;I'm not trying
to bad mouth it, but I don't remember it being worth the price. &nbsp;Maybe
it's&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-=
serif;">&gt;changed. &nbsp;I'll love to hear more about what you think of i=
t,
has it gotten better?</span> <br></div><div><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data=
-setdir=3D"false">In the past I'm pretty sure that's why I never used it.&n=
bsp; But reciently I've come across several problems on these newer cars th=
at I definitely could use some help on and I looked into Alldata.&nbsp; I t=
hink they may have changed their DIY usages.&nbsp; I thought there was one =
option for a specific car and one for maybe 2 or 3 cars.&nbsp; But last tim=
e I looked it seemed to be time duration, like 1 mo.&nbsp; But for a proble=
m problem, $20 for a mo isn't bad, especially if it helps you find the prob=
lem.&nbsp; <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">&gt;<span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:sans-serif;">But right now,
with youtube and AI, I've been getting great results. (but I'm always willi=
ng
to&nbsp;</span></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;">&gt;buy another tool!) 8&gt;)</span=
> <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r" data-setdir=3D"false">I definitely agree.&nbsp; I was just trying to say=
 there is an additional tool available that may be worth looking to.&nbsp; =
Our cell phones and AI sure have helped the DIYer.&nbsp; I can't believe th=
at we ever got along with out these tools.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdi=
r=3D"false"><br></div><div>
&gt;<span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;">FWIW on the AI
side. &nbsp;The Army released it's own AI and I was totally blow away by
it. &nbsp;I&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif;">&gt;had a white paper to write (about 3 pages, in a very spe=
cific
format.) &nbsp;I just put in the data&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style=3D=
"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;">&gt;for each portion of the white =
paper,
in normal speaking voice, and in less than 30 seconds,&nbsp;</span></div><d=
iv><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;">&gt;I had a VERY =
professional,
perfectly formatted white paper. &nbsp;It even included some&nbsp;</span></=
div><div><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;">&gt;additio=
nal
technical data to expand on what I fed it (and yes, I checked it and it
was&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-s=
erif;">&gt;correct.) &nbsp;I was really impressed.</span> <br></div><div><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I keep hearing stories like =
this.&nbsp; I haven't had the need for anything like that now that I'm reti=
red.&nbsp; But I have taken some long items I've written and asked AI to he=
lp clean them up and maybe shorten them.&nbsp; What I got back wasn't what =
I was looking for.&nbsp; I guess I just didn't give it the right guidance.&=
nbsp; I need more practice.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">&gt;<span style=3D"font-size:=
10pt;font-family:sans-serif;">However, I totally
agree that AI needs to be verified and doubled checked. &nbsp;As an instruc=
tor&nbsp;</span></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><span style=3D=
"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;">&gt;in the Army, we have student's=
 try to pass off papers that were AI generated
and it is very&nbsp;</span></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;">&gt;clear what is AI.&n=
bsp; </span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;">I find i=
t's best
use is to have it do formatting, and the 'boiler plate' work.&nbsp;</span><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:sans-serif;">&gt;The
'substance' needs to come from the person.</span> <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Tr=
ue.&nbsp; I will use MS Doc's to go over something I've written to check my=
 grammar and spelling.&nbsp; It does a great job at that, a lot better than=
 just a spelling checker.&nbsp; It will catch things like there and their t=
hat a spelling checker won't.&nbsp; But spelling checkers sure were a great=
 improvement of nothing! <img title=3D"Emoji" alt=3D"Emoji" class=3D"yahoo-=
emoji-wrapper" src=3D"https://s.yimg.com/nq/yemoji_assets/latest/yemoji_ass=
ets/1f642.png" style=3D"padding: 0px 2px; vertical-align: middle;" data-inl=
ineimagemanipulating=3D"true" width=3D"16" height=3D"16">&nbsp; Me being dy=
slexic my spelling leaves a lot to be desired.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-s=
etdir=3D"false"><br></div><div>&gt;<span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif;">Have a great day!</span> <br></div><div><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Thanks, you also!!!</div><div dir=3D"ltr" da=
ta-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">JohnT<=
br></div><div><br></div><br></div></div>
        </div></div><div id=3D"DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
<table style=3D"border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
=09<tr>
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h: 46px; height: 29px;"></a></td>
=09=09<td style=3D"width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color: #41424e; font-si=
ze: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">Vi=
rus-free. <a href=3D"https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=3Demail&utm=
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nk" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: #4453ea;">www.avast.com</a>
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</table><a href=3D"#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width=3D"1" heigh=
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Thomas Coradeschi <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2025 11:42:46 -0500

I used alldata for a number of years - subscriptions for individual vehicles were required, unless you wanted to pay pro pricing.

I’ve since discovered that Haynes has manuals for both the vehicles in question (honest to goodness printed manuals), so no more alldata for me.

I found their website to be mediocre and some of their info flat out inaccurate. When I pinged them about that their response was “we dunno, we just use what the OEM gave us”. Meh.

—
Tom Coradeschi
[email-masked]

> On Dec 19, 2025, at 4:58 AM, [email-masked] wrote:
> 
> John, 
> 
> Years ago I used AllData, if I remember correctly, it was mostly just the pdfs of the manuals, but not that great.  I remember one time I was looking for a sensor on a Mercedes 190D, and the image was just of the sensor, but it was an 'illustration' and impossible to figure out where it was on the car. 
> 
> I'm not trying to bad mouth it, but I don't remember it being worth the price.  Maybe it's changed.  I'll love to hear more about what you think of it, has it gotten better? 
> 
> But right now, with youtube and AI, I've been getting great results. (but I'm always willing to buy another tool!) 8>) 
> 
> FWIW on the AI side.  The Army released it's own AI and I was totally blow away by it.  I had a white paper to write (about 3 pages, in a very specific format.)  I just put in the data for each portion of the white paper, in normal speaking voice, and in less than 30 seconds, I had a VERY professional, perfectly formatted white paper.  It even included some additional technical data to expand on what I fed it (and yes, I checked it and it was correct.)  I was really impressed. 
> 
> However, I totally agree that AI needs to be verified and doubled checked.  As an instructor in the Army, we have student's try to pass off papers that were AI generated and it is very clear what is AI. 
> I find it's best use is to have it do formatting, and the 'boiler plate' work.  The 'substance' needs to come from the person. 
> 
> Often I need to write a letter or memo, and i just tell it what i need the document to say and it formats it perfectly and does all the 'heavy lifting' and i just go back and fix/add any details. 
> 
> Have a great day! 
> Moose 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday, December 18, 2025 at 09:34:23 PM EST, Old Dirtbeard <[email-masked]> wrote: 
> 
> >quite helpful in the initial exploration phase. It can help you to ask the right 
> >questions..... 
> 
> So with all this AI don't forget about AllData for the DIYers.  You can get a 1 mo. subscription for $20.  So if you're stumped try that.  I keep meaning to as I used one of the commercial on-line diagnostic similar to the "Pro" version of AllData when I was talking auto classes at the local community college.   
> 
> I haven't been stumped yet.  My son had a problem with his 2011 F150, no instrument lights and no start.  We spent about 5 hr. working on it and searching the internet  to no avail. Then he found a youtube video about the problem.  Turns out a loose connector in the passenger side front kick panel.  Pulled the panel and sure enough.  Plugged the plug back in and off it went. 
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
> 
> 
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
> 

[email-masked]

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]