Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] brake shudder

From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2025 13:19:47 -0500

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Something just came to mind. The O.P. Stated that he measured a maximum devi=
ation of .002=E2=80=9D. How was that measurement taken? It could have been t=
he measurement between one surface of the rotor to a part of the car that is=
 stationary, or the thickness of the rotor. Variation in the thickness of th=
e rotor will produce more variation in the pedal than a warped rotor.=20

As for not turning rotors any more, a local, highly regarded shop says to tu=
rn older rotors, especially OEM rather than replacing them with aftermarket r=
otors because the steel quality of old rotors was better.=20

Peace, Pat

Pat Horne=20
We support Habitat for Humanity

On Sep 27, 2025, at 12:24=E2=80=AFPM, [email-masked] wrote:

=EF=BB=BFJohn,

A couple of things, I didn't think you turn a modern rotor. There normally i=
sn't enough 'meet' to remove them and have them be stout enough.  I think th=
at is why you had a problem with the turned rotors so quickly.

My other question, do you have speed bumps that you regularly have to go ove=
r?  What about pot holes?  I always learned that braking while going over la=
rge bumps or pot holes is a good way to warp a rotor.

I'm just throwing these out there.  I have no other in sight.

Have a great day.

Moose

From:        "john niolon" <[email-masked]>
To:        "shop-talk" <[email-masked]>
Date:        09/27/2025 10:59 AM
Subject:        [Shop-talk] brake shudder
Sent by:        "Shop-talk" <[email-masked]>

well I carry tools in my suburban (shop content)
=20
Mt problem is a 2008 suburban that has always had a brake shudder (warped ro=
tor) problem since I've had it... every year it seems it's
replace rotor time.
=20
This year I know I had two  never turned rotors.  I put a dial indicator on r=
otors and saw no more than .002 runout.. so I decided to just get
them turned just to see what difference it would make. =20
=20
Took them to a reputable shop that turned them and reinstalled.  First drive=
 was thru the neighborhood with no shudder.
Second drive was a ten mile trip on freeway... when exiting freeway I felt t=
he shudder and it seemed worse than before I turned
the rotors...
=20
I'm going to tear them back down next week to check everything but wondering=
 if there is something else I need to check or be
concerned about.  I did try stopping with just the parking brake with no shu=
dder so that eliminates the rear rotors causing the
problem.  Pads look nearly new and fit in the caliper nicely... Caliper pist=
ons are retracting as the should (pads are not bound to rotor when
removing wheels. Lines look ok from the outside. Caliper pins are smooth and=
 well lubricated.
=20
any ideas/suggestions/true life experiences/fantastic tales ???
john_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve

ageek.com

_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve

[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Something just came to mind. The O.P. State=
d that he measured a maximum deviation of .002=E2=80=9D. How was that measur=
ement taken? It could have been the measurement between one surface of the r=
otor to a part of the car that is stationary, or the thickness of the rotor.=
 Variation in the thickness of the rotor will produce more variation in the p=
edal than a warped rotor.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>As for not turning rotors=
 any more, a local, highly regarded shop says to turn older rotors, especial=
ly OEM rather than replacing them with aftermarket rotors because the steel q=
uality of old rotors was better.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Peace, Pat</=
div><div><br></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Pat Horne&nbsp;<div>We support Habi=
tat for Humanity</div><div><br></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Sep 27, 2=
025, at 12:24=E2=80=AFPM, [email-masked] wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">=EF=BB=BF<span style=3D" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">John,</=
span>
<br>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">A couple of thing=
s,
I didn't think you turn a modern rotor. There normally isn't enough 'meet'
to remove them and have them be stout enough. &nbsp;I think that is why
you had a problem with the turned rotors so quickly.</span>
<br>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">My other question=
,
do you have speed bumps that you regularly have to go over? &nbsp;What
about pot holes? &nbsp;I always learned that braking while going over large
bumps or pot holes is a good way to warp a rotor.</span>
<br>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">I'm just throwing=

these out there. &nbsp;I have no other in sight.</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif"><br>
Have a great day.</span>
<br>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">Moose</span>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">From:=

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;font-family:=
sans-serif">"john
niolon" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">To:
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;font-family:=
sans-serif">"shop-talk"
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Date=
:
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;font-family:=
sans-serif">09/27/2025
10:59 AM</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Subj=
ect:
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;font-family:=
sans-serif">[Shop-talk]
brake shudder</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Sent=

by: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;font-fam=
ily:sans-serif">"Shop-talk"
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</span>
<br>
<hr noshade=3D"">
<br>
<br>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">well I carry tools
in my suburban (shop content)</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">Mt problem is a
2008 suburban that has always had a brake shudder (warped rotor) problem
since I've had it... every year it seems it's </span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">replace rotor time.=
</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">This year I know
I had two &nbsp;never turned rotors. &nbsp;I put a dial indicator on rotors
and saw no more than .002 runout.. so I decided to just get</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">them turned just
to see what difference it would make. &nbsp;</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">Took them to a repu=
table
shop that turned them and reinstalled. &nbsp;First drive was thru the neighb=
orhood
with no shudder.</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">Second drive was
a ten mile trip on freeway... when exiting freeway I felt the shudder and
it seemed worse than before I turned</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">the rotors...</span=
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">I'm going to tear
them back down next week to check everything but wondering if there is
something else I need to check or be</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">concerned about.
&nbsp;I did try stopping with just the parking brake with no shudder so
that eliminates the rear rotors causing the</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">problem. &nbsp;Pads=

look nearly new and fit in the caliper nicely... Caliper pistons are retract=
ing
as the should (pads are not bound to rotor when</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">removing wheels.
Lines look ok from the outside. Caliper pins are smooth and well lubricated.=
</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">any ideas/suggestio=
ns/true
life experiences/fantastic tales ???</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">john</span><tt><spa=
n style=3D" font-size:10pt">_______________________________________________<=
br>
<br>
[email-masked]<br>
yle=3D" font-size:10pt">http://www.team.net/donate.html</span></tt></a><tt><=
span style=3D" font-size:10pt"><br>
Archive: </span></tt><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk"><tt=
><span style=3D" font-size:10pt">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</sp=
an></tt></a><tt><span style=3D" font-size:10pt">
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ions/shop-talk/[email-masked]"><tt><span style=3D" font-size:10pt">http:/=
/autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</span></tt></a><=
tt><span style=3D" font-size:10pt"><br>
<br>
</span></tt>
<br>
<br>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span></span=
><br><span>[email-masked]</span><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.=
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_______________________________________________

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---

From: Karl Vacek <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2025 15:11:57 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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--1998ccdbc121f5c2898478ad31
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I used to turn rotors.  And I used to buy super premium brake pads.  And I 
did lots of brake jobs.

When I finally began only buying OES (old GM designation for Original 
Equipment Service) parts I stopped doing so many brake jobs.  Two GMC's and 
a Ford - all with original-specification factory parts.

All the "lifetime" warrantees and high praise from magazines for this 
miracle brake pad or that wonderful rotor can't touch the reliability and 
satisfaction of original parts.

YMMV

Karl

On September 27, 2025 1:51:59 PM Pat Horne <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Something just came to mind. The O.P. Stated that he measured a maximum 
> deviation of .002”. How was that measurement taken? It could have been the 
> measurement between one surface of the rotor to a part of the car that is 
> stationary, or the thickness of the rotor. Variation in the thickness of 
> the rotor will produce more variation in the pedal than a warped rotor.
>
> As for not turning rotors any more, a local, highly regarded shop says to 
> turn older rotors, especially OEM rather than replacing them with 
> aftermarket rotors because the steel quality of old rotors was better.
>
> Peace, Pat
>
> Pat Horne
> On Sep 27, 2025, at 12:24 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
>
> John,
>
> A couple of things,
> to remove them and have them be stout enough.  I think that is why
> you had a problem with the turned rotors so quickly.
>
> My other question,
> do you have speed bumps that you regularly have to go over?  What
> about pot holes?  I always learned that braking while going over large
> bumps or pot holes is a good way to warp a rotor.
>
> I'm just throwing
> these out there.  I have no other in sight.
>
> Have a great day.
>
> Moose
>
>
>
> From:
>       "john
> niolon" <[email-masked]>
> To:
>       "shop-talk"
> <[email-masked]>
> Date:
>       09/27/2025
> 10:59 AM
> Subject:
>       [Shop-talk]
> brake shudder
> Sent
> by:        "Shop-talk"
> <[email-masked]>
>
>
>
> well I carry tools
> Mt problem is a
> since I've had it... every year it seems it's
> replace rotor time.
>
> This year I know
> I had two  never turned rotors.  I put a dial indicator on rotors
> and saw no more than .002 runout.. so I decided to just get
> them turned just
> to see what difference it would make.
>
> Took them to a reputable
> shop that turned them and reinstalled.  First drive was thru the neighborhood
> with no shudder.
> Second drive was
> it seemed worse than before I turned
> the rotors...
>
> I'm going to tear
> something else I need to check or be
> concerned about.
> I did try stopping with just the parking brake with no shudder so
> that eliminates the rear rotors causing the
> problem.  Pads
> look nearly new and fit in the caliper nicely... Caliper pistons are retracting
> as the should (pads are not bound to rotor when
> removing wheels.
> Lines look ok from the outside. Caliper pins are smooth and well lubricated.
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "http://www.=
w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html>
<body>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div dir=3D"auto">I used to turn rotors.&nbsp; And I used to buy super prem=
ium brake pads.&nbsp; And I did lots of brake jobs.</div><div dir=3D"auto">=
<br></div><div dir=3D"auto">When I finally began only buying OES (old GM de=
signation for Original Equipment Service) parts I stopped doing so many bra=
ke jobs.&nbsp; Two GMC's and a Ford - all with original-specification facto=
ry parts.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">All the "lifet=
ime" warrantees and high praise from magazines for this miracle brake pad o=
r that wonderful rotor can't touch the reliability and satisfaction of orig=
inal parts.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">YMMV</div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Karl</div><div dir=3D'auto'><br=
></div>
<div id=3D"aqm-original" style=3D"color: black;">
<!-- body start -->
<div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"aqm-original-body"><div style=3D"color: black;">
<p style=3D"color: black; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; margin:=
 8pt 0;">On September 27, 2025 1:51:59 PM Pat Horne &lt;[email-masked]=
om&gt; wrote:</p>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 0.75=
ex; border-left: 1px solid #808080; padding-left: 0.75ex;">
Something just came to mind. The O.P. Stated that he measured a maximum dev=
iation of .002=E2=80=9D. How was that measurement taken? It could have been=
 the measurement between one surface of the rotor to a part of the car that=
 is stationary, or the thickness of the rotor. Variation in the thickness o=
f the rotor will produce more variation in the pedal than a warped rotor.&n=
bsp;<div><br></div><div>As for not turning rotors any more, a local, highly=
 regarded shop says to turn older rotors, especially OEM rather than replac=
ing them with aftermarket rotors because the steel quality of old rotors wa=
s better.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Peace, Pat</div><div><br></div><di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr">Pat Horne&nbsp;<div>We support Habitat for Humanity</div=
><div><br></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Sep 27, 2025, at 12:24=E2=80=
=AFPM, [email-masked] wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<spa=
n style=3D" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">John,</span>
<br>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">A couple of thin=
gs,
I didn't think you turn a modern rotor. There normally isn't enough 'meet'
to remove them and have them be stout enough. &nbsp;I think that is why
you had a problem with the turned rotors so quickly.</span>
<br>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">My other questio=
n,
do you have speed bumps that you regularly have to go over? &nbsp;What
about pot holes? &nbsp;I always learned that braking while going over large
bumps or pot holes is a good way to warp a rotor.</span>
<br>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">I'm just throwin=
g
these out there. &nbsp;I have no other in sight.</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif"><br>
Have a great day.</span>
<br>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">Moose</span>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Fro=
m:
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;font-family=
:sans-serif">"john
niolon" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">To:
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;font-family=
:sans-serif">"shop-talk"
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Dat=
e:
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;font-family=
:sans-serif">09/27/2025
10:59 AM</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Sub=
ject:
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;font-family=
:sans-serif">[Shop-talk]
brake shudder</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Sen=
t
by: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=3D" font-size:9pt;font-fa=
mily:sans-serif">"Shop-talk"
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</span>
<br>
<hr noshade=3D"">
<br>
<br>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">well I carry tools
in my suburban (shop content)</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">Mt problem is a
2008 suburban that has always had a brake shudder (warped rotor) problem
since I've had it... every year it seems it's </span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">replace rotor time=
.</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">This year I know
I had two &nbsp;never turned rotors. &nbsp;I put a dial indicator on rotors
and saw no more than .002 runout.. so I decided to just get</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">them turned just
to see what difference it would make. &nbsp;</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">Took them to a rep=
utable
shop that turned them and reinstalled. &nbsp;First drive was thru the neigh=
borhood
with no shudder.</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">Second drive was
a ten mile trip on freeway... when exiting freeway I felt the shudder and
it seemed worse than before I turned</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">the rotors...</spa=
n>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">I'm going to tear
them back down next week to check everything but wondering if there is
something else I need to check or be</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">concerned about.
&nbsp;I did try stopping with just the parking brake with no shudder so
that eliminates the rear rotors causing the</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">problem. &nbsp;Pad=
s
look nearly new and fit in the caliper nicely... Caliper pistons are retrac=
ting
as the should (pads are not bound to rotor when</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">removing wheels.
Lines look ok from the outside. Caliper pins are smooth and well lubricated=
.</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">any ideas/suggesti=
ons/true
life experiences/fantastic tales ???</span>
<br><span style=3D" font-size:12pt;font-family:Segoe UI">john</span><tt><sp=
an style=3D" font-size:10pt">______________________________________________=
_<br>
<br>
[email-masked]<br>
tyle=3D" font-size:10pt">http://www.team.net/donate.html</span></tt></a><tt=
><span style=3D" font-size:10pt"><br>
Archive: </span></tt><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk"><t=
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://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</span></tt></=
a><tt><span style=3D" font-size:10pt"><br>
<br>
</span></tt>
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<br>
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