Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] It's A Simple Machine, Right?

From: Brian and Wendy Warrick <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2025 19:31:10 +0000

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I would try a plug first. If it was wet, it may be fouled out and not spark=
ing under compression.

Brian
Nampa, ID
________________________________
From: Shop-talk <[email-masked]> on behalf of Jeff Scarbr=
ough <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2025 12:31 PM
To: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Shop-talk] It's A Simple Machine, Right?

I've got a puzzle...

 tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil, or i=
s there something else I should try?

The patient is a Snapper rear-engine riding mower, a machine that's as simp=
le as can be.  Powered by a B&S Intek 12.5 HP engine, another simple machin=
e.

My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute tangled =
up in some old fencing.  He got it loose, and continued to mow.  After a sh=
ort distance, the mower quit running and would not restart.

I brought it into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I first tried eth=
er - it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.  Pulled the pl=
ug and it looked wet.  Turned the engine over with the plug connected and g=
rounded, and observed a spark.  Not a magnificent spark, but a spark.

Verified compression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could not g=
et *any* of my compression testers to seal in the hole well.  But it pushed=
 against my finger with some force.

Moved to the carb.  Pulled and inspected.  Float working, jet clear.

Put it all back together, and nothing.

Pulled the ground wire off the magneto coil and no change.

So, I'm thinking weak coil.  Not completely dead, but not working under cyl=
inder pressure.  Something else I read suggested a bad plug - this one was =
installed a month ago and has been working.  Date code on the engine indica=
tes it was built on April Fools Day, 2008.

In the era of $15 lawn mower coils, I would throw one on with no qualms.  B=
ut at $40 or $50, I hesitate.

So,  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil, =
or is there something else I should try?

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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
I would try a plug first. If it was wet, it may be fouled out and not spark=
ing under compression.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
Brian</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
Nampa, ID</div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Shop-talk &lt;shop-ta=
[email-masked]&gt; on behalf of Jeff Scarbrough &lt;fishplate@gm=
ail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 2, 2025 12:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> [email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Shop-talk] It's A Simple Machine, Right?</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I've got a puzzle...
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&nbsp;tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the =
coil, or is there something else I should try?<br>
<br>
The patient is a Snapper rear-engine riding mower, a machine that's as simp=
le as can be.&nbsp; Powered by a B&amp;S Intek 12.5 HP engine, another simp=
le machine.<br>
<br>
My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute tangled =
up in some old fencing.&nbsp; He got it loose, and continued to mow.&nbsp; =
After a short distance, the mower quit running and would not restart.<br>
<br>
I brought it into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I first tried eth=
er&nbsp;- it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.&nbsp; Pul=
led the plug and it looked wet.&nbsp; Turned the engine over with the&nbsp;=
plug connected and grounded, and observed a spark.&nbsp;
 Not a magnificent spark, but a spark.&nbsp;&nbsp;
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Verified compression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could =
not get *any* of my compression testers to seal in the hole well.&nbsp; But=
 it pushed against my finger with some force.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Moved to the carb.&nbsp; Pulled and inspected.&nbsp; Float working, je=
t clear.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Put it all back together, and nothing.&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>
<br>
Pulled the ground wire off the magneto coil and no change.<br>
<br>
So, I'm thinking weak coil.&nbsp; Not completely dead, but not working unde=
r cylinder pressure.&nbsp; Something else I read suggested a bad plug - thi=
s one was installed a month ago and has been working.&nbsp; Date code on th=
e engine indicates it was built on April Fools
 Day, 2008.<br>
<br>
In the era of $15 lawn mower coils, I would throw one on with no qualms.&nb=
sp; But at $40 or $50, I hesitate.<br>
<br>
So, &nbsp;tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the c=
oil, or is there something else I should try?<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From: Brian Borgstede <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2025 14:32:19 -0500

If it were an ordinary push mower, I would say flywheel key. Fairly common if you hit something and stop the engine suddenly. It might have a spark, but the timing would be off. Just a thought.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 2, 2025, at 1:55 PM, Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
> I've got a puzzle...
> 
>  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil, or is there something else I should try?
> 
> The patient is a Snapper rear-engine riding mower, a machine that's as simple as can be.  Powered by a B&S Intek 12.5 HP engine, another simple machine.
> 
> My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute tangled up in some old fencing.  He got it loose, and continued to mow.  After a short distance, the mower quit running and would not restart.
> 
> I brought it into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I first tried ether - it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.  Pulled the plug and it looked wet.  Turned the engine over with the plug connected and grounded, and observed a spark.  Not a magnificent spark, but a spark.  
> 
> Verified compression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could not get *any* of my compression testers to seal in the hole well.  But it pushed against my finger with some force.
> 
> So, I'm thinking weak coil.  Not completely dead, but not working under cylinder pressure.  Something else I read suggested a bad plug - this one was installed a month ago and has been working.  Date code on the engine indicates it was built on April Fools Day, 2008.
> 
> In the era of $15 lawn mower coils, I would throw one on with no qualms.  But at $40 or $50, I hesitate.
> 
> So,  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil, or is there something else I should try?
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
> 

[email-masked]
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

---

From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2025 14:50:01 -0500

I’ve had similar in the past, check the flywheel key, mine had sheared & the ignition timing was off just enough. Cheap fix!

Peace, Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity

On Jul 2, 2025, at 2:07 PM, Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]> wrote:

I've got a puzzle...

[email-masked]

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: Paul Parkanzky <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2025 15:54:40 -0400

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This could be timing. If the engine was stopped suddenly the key that holds
the flywheel position may have sheared and the magneto isn't firing at the
right time. So you see spark when you turn the motor but it might not be
when the air/fuel/compression are there.

-Paul

On Wed, Jul 2, 2025 at 3:46=E2=80=AFPM Brian and Wendy Warrick <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> I would try a plug first. If it was wet, it may be fouled out and not
> sparking under compression.
>
> Brian
> Nampa, ID
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Shop-talk <[email-masked]> on behalf of Jeff
> Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 2, 2025 12:31 PM
> *To:* [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
> *Subject:* [Shop-talk] It's A Simple Machine, Right?
>
> I've got a puzzle...
>
> The patient is a Snapper rear-engine riding mower, a machine that's as
> simple as can be.  Powered by a B&S Intek 12.5 HP engine, another simple
> machine.
>
> My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute tangle=
d
> up in some old fencing.  He got it loose, and continued to mow.  After a
> short distance, the mower quit running and would not restart.
>
> I brought it into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I first tried
> ether - it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.  Pulled t=
he
> plug and it looked wet.  Turned the engine over with the plug connected a=
nd
> grounded, and observed a spark.  Not a magnificent spark, but a spark.
>
> Verified compression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could not
> get *any* of my compression testers to seal in the hole well.  But it
> pushed against my finger with some force.
>
> So, I'm thinking weak coil.  Not completely dead, but not working under
> cylinder pressure.  Something else I read suggested a bad plug - this one
> was installed a month ago and has been working.  Date code on the engine
> indicates it was built on April Fools Day, 2008.
>
> So,  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil=
,
> or is there something else I should try?

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>This could be timing. If the engine was stopped sudde=
nly the key that holds the flywheel position may have sheared and the magne=
to isn&#39;t firing at the right time. So you see spark when you turn the m=
otor but it might not be when the air/fuel/compression are there.</div><div=
><br></div><div>-Paul</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_contai=
ner"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 2, 2025 at 3:46=E2=
=80=AFPM Brian and Wendy Warrick &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"msg-2592799618886429586">

<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
I would try a plug first. If it was wet, it may be fouled out and not spark=
ing under compression.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
Brian</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
Nampa, ID</div>
<div id=3D"m_-2592799618886429586appendonsend"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_-2592799618886429586divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"C=
alibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b>=
 Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; on behalf of Jeff Scar=
brough &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">fishpla=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 2, 2025 12:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">sh=
[email-masked]</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Shop-talk] It&#39;s A Simple Machine, Right?</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;ve got a puzzle...
<div><br>
</div>
<div>=C2=A0tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the =
coil, or is there something else I should try?<br>
<br>
The patient is a Snapper rear-engine riding mower, a machine that&#39;s as =
simple as can be.=C2=A0 Powered by a B&amp;S Intek 12.5 HP engine, another =
simple machine.<br>
<br>
My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute tangled =
up in some old fencing.=C2=A0 He got it loose, and continued to mow.=C2=A0 =
After a short distance, the mower quit running and would not restart.<br>
<br>
I brought it into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I first tried eth=
er=C2=A0- it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.=C2=A0 Pul=
led the plug and it looked wet.=C2=A0 Turned the engine over with the=C2=A0=
plug connected and grounded, and observed a spark.=C2=A0
 Not a magnificent spark, but a spark.=C2=A0=C2=A0
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Verified compression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could =
not get *any* of my compression testers to seal in the hole well.=C2=A0 But=
 it pushed against my finger with some force.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Moved to the carb.=C2=A0 Pulled and inspected.=C2=A0 Float working, je=
t clear.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Put it all back together, and nothing.=C2=A0=C2=A0<br>
<br>
Pulled the ground wire off the magneto coil and no change.<br>
<br>
So, I&#39;m thinking weak coil.=C2=A0 Not completely dead, but not working =
under cylinder pressure.=C2=A0 Something else I read suggested a bad plug -=
 this one was installed a month ago and has been working.=C2=A0 Date code o=
n the engine indicates it was built on April Fools
 Day, 2008.<br>
<br>
In the era of $15 lawn mower coils, I would throw one on with no qualms.=C2=
=A0 But at $40 or $50, I hesitate.<br>
<br>
So, =C2=A0tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the c=
oil, or is there something else I should try?<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div><br>
<br>
</div></blockquote></div></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2025 17:06:29 -0400

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The flywheel key!  I didn't think of that - will check tomorrow.  Tehn new
plug, then coil.

You guys are the best!

On Wed, Jul 2, 2025 at 2:31=E2=80=AFPM Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]=
> wrote:

d
he
nd
,
> or is there something else I should try?

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<div dir=3D"ltr">The flywheel key!=C2=A0 I didn&#39;t think of that - will =
check tomorrow.=C2=A0 Tehn new plug, then coil.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Yo=
u guys are the best!=C2=A0=C2=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote g=
mail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 2, =
2025 at 2:31=E2=80=AFPM Jeff Scarbrough &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fishplate@gma=
il.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;ve got a puzzle...<div><b=
r></div><div>=C2=A0tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and repl=
ace the coil, or is there something else I should try?<br><br>The patient i=
s a Snapper rear-engine riding mower, a machine that&#39;s as simple as can=
 be.=C2=A0 Powered by a B&amp;S Intek 12.5 HP engine, another simple machin=
e.<br><br>My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chut=
e tangled up in some old fencing.=C2=A0 He got it loose, and continued to m=
ow.=C2=A0 After a short distance, the mower quit running and would not rest=
art.<br><br>I brought it into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I fir=
st tried ether=C2=A0- it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothin=
g.=C2=A0 Pulled the plug and it looked wet.=C2=A0 Turned the engine over wi=
th the=C2=A0plug connected and grounded, and observed a spark.=C2=A0 Not a =
magnificent spark, but a spark.=C2=A0=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Verified com=
pression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could not get *any* of =
my compression testers to seal in the hole well.=C2=A0 But it pushed agains=
t my finger with some force.</div><div><br></div><div>Moved to the carb.=C2=
=A0 Pulled and inspected.=C2=A0 Float working, jet clear.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Put it all back together, and nothing.=C2=A0=C2=A0<br><br>Pulled th=
e ground wire off the magneto coil and no change.<br><br>So, I&#39;m thinki=
ng weak coil.=C2=A0 Not completely dead, but not working under cylinder pre=
ssure.=C2=A0 Something else I read suggested a bad plug - this one was inst=
alled a month ago and has been working.=C2=A0 Date code on the engine indic=
ates it was built on April Fools Day, 2008.<br><br>In the era of $15 lawn m=
ower coils, I would throw one on with no qualms.=C2=A0 But at $40 or $50, I=
 hesitate.<br><br>So,

=C2=A0tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil,=
 or is there something else I should try?<br><br></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Douglas Shook <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2025 14:57:51 -0700

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Hi all,

I second Brian's prognosis. Whenever something stops working suddenly, the
first place to look would be what has happened to it most recently. The
fence in the blade may have sheared the pin, but it should not have shorted
the coil or fouled the plug. The fact that the plug is wet, there is spark,
but it will not start all would indicate the timing is off from a
sheared pin, assuming that it has a pin. Some engines may not have one.

On Wed, Jul 2, 2025 at 12:54=E2=80=AFPM Brian Borgstede <bborgstede@charter=
.net>
wrote:

> If it were an ordinary push mower, I would say flywheel key. Fairly commo=
n
> if you hit something and stop the engine suddenly. It might have a spark,
> but the timing would be off. Just a thought.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 2, 2025, at 1:55 PM, Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
> > =EF=BB=BF
> > My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute
> tangled up in some old fencing.  He got it loose, and continued to mow.
> After a short distance, the mower quit running and would not restart.
> >
he
nd
> > Verified compression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could
> not get *any* of my compression testers to seal in the hole well.  But it
> > So,  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the
> coil, or is there something else I should try?
> >
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
> >
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

--000000000000d1c1870638f95ac2
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Hi =
all,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I second Brian&#39;s=
 prognosis. Whenever=C2=A0something stops working suddenly, the first place=
 to look would be what has happened to it most recently. The fence in the b=
lade may have sheared the pin, but it should not have shorted the coil or f=
ouled the plug. The fact that the plug is wet, there is spark, but it will =
not start all would indicate=C2=A0the timing is off from a sheared=C2=A0pin=
, assuming that it has a pin. Some engines may not have one.</div></div><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 2, 2025 at 12:54=E2=80=AFPM Brian Borgstede &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">If it were an=
 ordinary push mower, I would say flywheel key. Fairly common if you hit so=
mething and stop the engine suddenly. It might have a spark, but the timing=
 would be off. Just a thought.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
&gt; On Jul 2, 2025, at 1:55 PM, Jeff Scarbrough &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fish=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; =EF=BB=BF<br>
&gt; I&#39;ve got a puzzle...<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the =
coil, or is there something else I should try?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The patient is a Snapper rear-engine riding mower, a machine that&#39;=
s as simple as can be.=C2=A0 Powered by a B&amp;S Intek 12.5 HP engine, ano=
ther simple machine.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute tan=
gled up in some old fencing.=C2=A0 He got it loose, and continued to mow.=
=C2=A0 After a short distance, the mower quit running and would not restart=
.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I brought it into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I first trie=
d ether - it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.=C2=A0 Pul=
led the plug and it looked wet.=C2=A0 Turned the engine over with the plug =
connected and grounded, and observed a spark.=C2=A0 Not a magnificent spark=
, but a spark.=C2=A0 <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Verified compression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could =
not get *any* of my compression testers to seal in the hole well.=C2=A0 But=
 it pushed against my finger with some force.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Moved to the carb.=C2=A0 Pulled and inspected.=C2=A0 Float working, je=
t clear.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Put it all back together, and nothing.=C2=A0 <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Pulled the ground wire off the magneto coil and no change.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; So, I&#39;m thinking weak coil.=C2=A0 Not completely dead, but not wor=
king under cylinder pressure.=C2=A0 Something else I read suggested a bad p=
lug - this one was installed a month ago and has been working.=C2=A0 Date c=
ode on the engine indicates it was built on April Fools Day, 2008.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; In the era of $15 lawn mower coils, I would throw one on with no qualm=
s.=C2=A0 But at $40 or $50, I hesitate.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; So,=C2=A0 tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace =
the coil, or is there something else I should try?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-tal=
[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
&gt; Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96<br>
&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"no=
referrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/s=
hop-talk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000d1c1870638f95ac2--

--===============2801352457082829261==
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[email-masked]

--===============2801352457082829261==--

---

From: Jim Franklin <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2025 18:11:02 -0400

> On Jul 2, 2025, at 5:06 PM, Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> The flywheel key!  I didn't think of that - will check tomorrow.  Tehn new plug, then coil. 
> 
> You guys are the best!  

Maybe wait until you find out if we were right :-)

jim

[email-masked]

---

From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2025 06:59:39 -0400

--===============7862721243579296184==

--00000000000045a219063940a080

Update:  On Thursday, we tried a new plug - no start.  Pulled the flywheel
bolt and inspected the key - perfect alignment (did not remove the flywheel
to visually inspect the key itself).

New coil on the way - interestingly, direct from Briggs & Stratton was
cheaper than buying a B&S-labeled part from Amazon, and presumably has a
far better chance of being both the correct part and not counterfeit.

The saga continues...

On Wed, Jul 2, 2025, 14:31 Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]> wrote:

> My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute tangled
> ether - it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.  Pulled the
> plug and it looked wet.  Turned the engine over with the plug connected and

--00000000000045a219063940a080
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">Update:=C2=A0 On Thursday, we tried a new plug - no start=
.=C2=A0 Pulled the flywheel bolt and inspected the key - perfect alignment =
(did not remove the flywheel to visually inspect the key itself).<div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">New coil on the way - interestingly, =
direct from Briggs &amp; Stratton was cheaper than buying a B&amp;S-labeled=
 part from Amazon, and presumably has a far better chance of being both the=
 correct part and not counterfeit.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The saga continues...</div></div><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 2, 2025, 14:31 Jeff Scarbrough &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;ve got a puzzle...<div><br><=
/div><div>=C2=A0tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace=
 the coil, or is there something else I should try?<br><br>The patient is a=
 Snapper rear-engine riding mower, a machine that&#39;s as simple as can be=
.=C2=A0 Powered by a B&amp;S Intek 12.5 HP engine, another simple machine.<=
br><br>My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute t=
angled up in some old fencing.=C2=A0 He got it loose, and continued to mow.=
=C2=A0 After a short distance, the mower quit running and would not restart=
.<br><br>I brought it into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I first =
tried ether=C2=A0- it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.=
=C2=A0 Pulled the plug and it looked wet.=C2=A0 Turned the engine over with=
 the=C2=A0plug connected and grounded, and observed a spark.=C2=A0 Not a ma=
gnificent spark, but a spark.=C2=A0=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Verified compr=
ession, but due to the position of the muffler, I could not get *any* of my=
 compression testers to seal in the hole well.=C2=A0 But it pushed against =
my finger with some force.</div><div><br></div><div>Moved to the carb.=C2=
=A0 Pulled and inspected.=C2=A0 Float working, jet clear.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Put it all back together, and nothing.=C2=A0=C2=A0<br><br>Pulled th=
e ground wire off the magneto coil and no change.<br><br>So, I&#39;m thinki=
ng weak coil.=C2=A0 Not completely dead, but not working under cylinder pre=
ssure.=C2=A0 Something else I read suggested a bad plug - this one was inst=
alled a month ago and has been working.=C2=A0 Date code on the engine indic=
ates it was built on April Fools Day, 2008.<br><br>In the era of $15 lawn m=
ower coils, I would throw one on with no qualms.=C2=A0 But at $40 or $50, I=
 hesitate.<br><br>So,

--00000000000045a219063940a080--

--===============7862721243579296184==
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[email-masked]

--===============7862721243579296184==--

---

From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2025 20:49:36 -0400

--===============0798722522282155700==

--0000000000001741fd063a014500

--0000000000001741fc063a0145ff
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Update to the update:

New coil arrived yesterday.  Installed it today - no spark.  Reinstalled
the old one - weak spark.  Discovered the old one was upside-down -
inverted it and reinstalled it - no spark.  Disconnected the grounding wire
- strong spark.  The old one worked with that wire connected, so there's
another rabbit hole we need to go down for the future.

Meanwhile, now that we had a good spark, we gave it a shot of ether and
cranked.  It ran, but very low power.   So, not the spark.  Checked
hte fuel flow at the carb, still adequate.  So my7 thoughts turned to the
valve train...

Went to take the valve cover off, but it was thoroughly glued on.  So I
pulled the muffler so I could see the valve stem.  It was going up and
down, so I pulled the intake and looked way down in the hole.   The valve
was *not* moving!

At that point, I was confident in prying the valve cover off being a good
idea.  Turns out the top inch of the intake pushrod was lying in the oil
drain back to the crankcase.  The pushrod looks like it was getting crimped
and finally broke where it was getting necked down.  I've never seen
anything quite like this.  I'm not sure now how it was running weakly on
ether or gas if the intake valve didn't open to admit any air or fuel.

More new parts on order.  At least I found something I could verify was
broken.  I call that progress.

On Sun, Jul 6, 2025 at 6:59=E2=80=AFAM Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]=

> Update:  On Thursday, we tried a new plug - no start.  Pulled the flywhee=
l
> bolt and inspected the key - perfect alignment (did not remove the flywhe=
el
>>  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil, o=
r
>> is there something else I should try?
>>
>> ether - it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.  Pulled =
the
>> plug and it looked wet.  Turned the engine over with the plug connected =
and
>> Verified compression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could no=
t
>> cylinder pressure.  Something else I read suggested a bad plug - this on=
e
>> coil, or is there something else I should try?

--0000000000001741fc063a0145ff
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Update to the=C2=A0update:<div><br></div><div>New coil arr=
ived yesterday.=C2=A0 Installed it today - no spark.=C2=A0 Reinstalled the =
old one - weak spark.=C2=A0 Discovered the old one was upside-down - invert=
ed it and reinstalled it - no spark.=C2=A0 Disconnected the grounding wire =
- strong spark.=C2=A0 The old one worked with that wire connected, so there=
&#39;s another rabbit hole we need to go down for the future.=C2=A0=C2=A0<b=
r><br>Meanwhile, now that we had a good=C2=A0spark, we gave it a shot of et=
her and cranked.=C2=A0 It ran, but very low power.=C2=A0 =C2=A0So, not the =
spark.=C2=A0 Checked hte=C2=A0fuel flow at the carb, still adequate.=C2=A0 =
So my7 thoughts turned to the valve train...</div><div><br></div><div>Went =
to take the valve cover off, but it was thoroughly glued on.=C2=A0 So I pul=
led the muffler so I could see the valve stem.=C2=A0 It was going up and do=
wn, so I pulled the intake and looked=C2=A0way down in the hole.=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0The valve was *not* moving!<br><br>At that point, I was confident in pry=
ing the valve cover off being a good idea.=C2=A0 Turns out the top inch of =
the intake pushrod was lying in the oil drain back to the crankcase.=C2=A0 =
The pushrod looks like it was getting crimped and finally broke where it wa=
s getting necked down.=C2=A0 I&#39;ve never seen anything quite like this.=
=C2=A0 I&#39;m not sure now how it was running weakly on ether or gas if th=
e intake valve didn&#39;t open to admit any air or fuel.<br><br>More new pa=
rts on order.=C2=A0 At least I found something=C2=A0I could verify was brok=
en.=C2=A0 I call that progress.</div><div class=3D"gmail-yj6qo gmail-ajU" s=
tyle=3D"outline:none;padding:10px 0px;width:22px;margin:2px 0px 0px"><img s=
rc=3D"cid:ii_md58u1lh0" alt=3D"RMA mower valve train.jpg" width=3D"562" hei=
ght=3D"422"><br></div><img src=3D"cid:ii_md58u5ep1" alt=3D"RMA mower intake=
 pushrod wide.jpg" width=3D"562" height=3D"422"><br></div><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">O=
n Sun, Jul 6, 2025 at 6:59=E2=80=AFAM Jeff Scarbrough &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Update:=C2=A0 On=
 Thursday, we tried a new plug - no start.=C2=A0 Pulled the flywheel bolt a=
nd inspected the key - perfect alignment (did not remove the flywheel to vi=
sually inspect the key itself).<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto=
">New coil on the way - interestingly, direct from Briggs &amp; Stratton wa=
s cheaper than buying a B&amp;S-labeled part from Amazon, and presumably ha=
s a far better chance of being both the correct part and not counterfeit.</=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"aut=
o">The saga continues...</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 2, 2025, 14:31 Jeff Scarbrough &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">fishplate@gmail.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1e=
x"><div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;ve got a puzzle...<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0tl;dr=
 - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil, or is ther=
e something else I should try?<br><br>The patient is a Snapper rear-engine =
riding mower, a machine that&#39;s as simple as can be.=C2=A0 Powered by a =
B&amp;S Intek 12.5 HP engine, another simple machine.<br><br>My friend was =
cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute tangled up in some old=
 fencing.=C2=A0 He got it loose, and continued to mow.=C2=A0 After a short =
distance, the mower quit running and would not restart.<br><br>I brought it=
 into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I first tried ether=C2=A0- it=
 seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.=C2=A0 Pulled the plug=
 and it looked wet.=C2=A0 Turned the engine over with the=C2=A0plug connect=
ed and grounded, and observed a spark.=C2=A0 Not a magnificent spark, but a=
 spark.=C2=A0=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Verified compression, but due to the=
 position of the muffler, I could not get *any* of my compression testers t=
o seal in the hole well.=C2=A0 But it pushed against my finger with some fo=
rce.</div><div><br></div><div>Moved to the carb.=C2=A0 Pulled and inspected=
.=C2=A0 Float working, jet clear.</div><div><br></div><div>Put it all back =
together, and nothing.=C2=A0=C2=A0<br><br>Pulled the ground wire off the ma=
gneto coil and no change.<br><br>So, I&#39;m thinking weak coil.=C2=A0 Not =
completely dead, but not working under cylinder pressure.=C2=A0 Something e=
lse I read suggested a bad plug - this one was installed a month ago and ha=
s been working.=C2=A0 Date code on the engine indicates it was built on Apr=
il Fools Day, 2008.<br><br>In the era of $15 lawn mower coils, I would thro=
w one on with no qualms.=C2=A0 But at $40 or $50, I hesitate.<br><br>So,

--0000000000001741fc063a0145ff--

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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--0000000000001741fd063a014500
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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--0000000000001741fd063a014500--

--===============0798722522282155700==
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[email-masked]

--===============0798722522282155700==--

---

From: Doug Braun <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2025 19:16:01 -0400

--===============7918583157767289183==

--00000000000039df2a063a1414ec
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On a similar topic, look at this video of the insides of a cheap Chinese
replacement gas engine.  The camshaft lobes are PLASTIC!
They don't make 'em like they used to...

https://youtu.be/7IKNiQwTaoo?feature=3Dshared&t=3D493

Doug

On Tue, Jul 15, 2025 at 9:02=E2=80=AFPM Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]=
m> wrote:

> inverted it and reinstalled it - no spark.  Disconnected the grounding wi=
re
> drain back to the crankcase.  The pushrod looks like it was getting crimp=
ed
> broken.  I call that progress.

--00000000000039df2a063a1414ec
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>On a similar topic, look at this vid=
eo of the insides of a cheap Chinese replacement gas engine.=C2=A0 The cams=
haft lobes are PLASTIC!</div><div>They don&#39;t make &#39;em like they use=
d to...</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://youtu.be/7IKNiQwTaoo?fe=
ature=3Dshared&amp;t=3D493">https://youtu.be/7IKNiQwTaoo?feature=3Dshared&a=
mp;t=3D493</a></div><div><br></div><div>Doug</div></div><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On =
Tue, Jul 15, 2025 at 9:02=E2=80=AFPM Jeff Scarbrough &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Update to the=C2=
=A0update:<div><br></div><div>New coil arrived yesterday.=C2=A0 Installed i=
t today - no spark.=C2=A0 Reinstalled the old one - weak spark.=C2=A0 Disco=
vered the old one was upside-down - inverted it and reinstalled it - no spa=
rk.=C2=A0 Disconnected the grounding wire - strong spark.=C2=A0 The old one=
 worked with that wire connected, so there&#39;s another rabbit hole we nee=
d to go down for the future.=C2=A0=C2=A0<br><br>Meanwhile, now that we had =
a good=C2=A0spark, we gave it a shot of ether and cranked.=C2=A0 It ran, bu=
t very low power.=C2=A0 =C2=A0So, not the spark.=C2=A0 Checked hte=C2=A0fue=
l flow at the carb, still adequate.=C2=A0 So my7 thoughts turned to the val=
ve train...</div><div><br></div><div>Went to take the valve cover off, but =
it was thoroughly glued on.=C2=A0 So I pulled the muffler so I could see th=
e valve stem.=C2=A0 It was going up and down, so I pulled the intake and lo=
oked=C2=A0way down in the hole.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The valve was *not* moving!<br>=
<br>At that point, I was confident in prying the valve cover off being a go=
od idea.=C2=A0 Turns out the top inch of the intake pushrod was lying in th=
e oil drain back to the crankcase.=C2=A0 The pushrod looks like it was gett=
ing crimped and finally broke where it was getting necked down.=C2=A0 I&#39=
;ve never seen anything quite like this.=C2=A0 I&#39;m not sure now how it =
was running weakly on ether or gas if the intake valve didn&#39;t open to a=
dmit any air or fuel.<br><br>More new parts on order.=C2=A0 At least I foun=
d something=C2=A0I could verify was broken.=C2=A0 I call that progress.</di=
v><div style=3D"outline:none;padding:10px 0px;width:22px;margin:2px 0px 0px=
"><br></div><br></div><br><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

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[email-masked]

--===============7918583157767289183==--