Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] How to open clearance on a hardened pin?

From: Al Fuller <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 23:14:44 -0300

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Jim, I don't know this part/assembly but it seems to me that the original
engineering would not have required hammering. Added to that one side goes
in well but not the other, I'm wondering if the bike might have a little
eccentricity in the fit-up? Is it possible that it was laid down at some
point in the past and has a little twist in the assembly?

________________
Best Regards,
Al Fuller

On Sat, Mar 23, 2024, 10:17 PM Jim Franklin <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I'm assembling a Moto Guzzi swingarm which attaches to the back of the
> gearbox. The gearbox has 2 recesses in which live plain roller bearings.
> The swingarm has threaded holes through which locating pins screw. The tips
> of the pins are unthreaded and locate into the ID of of the roller
> bearings. Parts #12 here:
>
> https://harpermoto.com/collections/1980-1984-v-50-iii-500-swing-arm
>
> The pins are known for being stuck yet mine came out easily, probably
> because the inner race was able to rest against the swingarm while the pin
> was being pulled out. Assembly is another matter. The bearings don't bottom
> out in their recess so the inner race has nothing supporting it when I
> screw the pins into the swingarm, and one pin is not sliding into the inner
> race (the other pin fits into both races as it should). I don't want to
> hammer on it and dent the races. I've sanded it with some 400 grit but I'm
> pretty sure the pins are hardened and so I haven't made any progress.
>
> Any thoughts on how to get this pin to fit in the bearing? Freezing it is
> not a great option because of the time it takes to get things installed,
> plus I'll need to do clearance adjustments.
>
> thanks,
> jim
> _______________________________________________
>
> [email-masked]
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"auto"><div>Jim, I don&#39;t know this part/assembly but it seem=
s to me that the original engineering would not have required hammering. Ad=
ded to that one side goes in well but not the other, I&#39;m wondering if t=
he bike might have a little eccentricity in the fit-up? Is it possible that=
 it was laid down at some point in the past and has a little twist in the a=
ssembly?</div><div><br></div><div data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">______=
__________<br>Best Regards,<br>Al Fuller</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 23, 2024, 10:17 P=
M Jim Franklin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">jamesf@groupwb=
ench.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I&#39;m ass=
embling a Moto Guzzi swingarm which attaches to the back of the gearbox. Th=
e gearbox has 2 recesses in which live plain roller bearings. The swingarm =
has threaded holes through which locating pins screw. The tips of the pins =
are unthreaded and locate into the ID of of the roller bearings. Parts #12 =
here:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://harpermoto.com/collections/1980-1984-v-50-iii-500-swing-=
arm" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://harpermoto.com=
/collections/1980-1984-v-50-iii-500-swing-arm</a><br>
<br>
The pins are known for being stuck yet mine came out easily, probably becau=
se the inner race was able to rest against the swingarm while the pin was b=
eing pulled out. Assembly is another matter. The bearings don&#39;t bottom =
out in their recess so the inner race has nothing supporting it when I scre=
w the pins into the swingarm, and one pin is not sliding into the inner rac=
e (the other pin fits into both races as it should). I don&#39;t want to ha=
mmer on it and dent the races. I&#39;ve sanded it with some 400 grit but I&=
#39;m pretty sure the pins are hardened and so I haven&#39;t made any progr=
ess.<br>
<br>
Any thoughts on how to get this pin to fit in the bearing? Freezing it is n=
ot a great option because of the time it takes to get things installed, plu=
s I&#39;ll need to do clearance adjustments. <br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
jim<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer">[email-masked]</a><br>
errer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</=
a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><b=
r>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From: Jim Franklin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 22:23:06 -0400

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Good thought but I should have specified that I tried inserting the pin =
directly into the bearing race and it exhibited the same issue.=20

jim

> On Mar 23, 2024, at 10:14 PM, Al Fuller <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Jim, I don't know this part/assembly but it seems to me that the =
original engineering would not have required hammering. Added to that =
one side goes in well but not the other, I'm wondering if the bike might =
have a little eccentricity in the fit-up? Is it possible that it was =
laid down at some point in the past and has a little twist in the =
assembly?
>=20
> ________________
> Best Regards,
> Al Fuller
>=20
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2024, 10:17 PM Jim Franklin <[email-masked] =
>> I'm assembling a Moto Guzzi swingarm which attaches to the back of =
the gearbox. The gearbox has 2 recesses in which live plain roller =
bearings. The swingarm has threaded holes through which locating pins =
screw. The tips of the pins are unthreaded and locate into the ID of of =
the roller bearings. Parts #12 here:
>>=20
>>=20
>> The pins are known for being stuck yet mine came out easily, probably =
because the inner race was able to rest against the swingarm while the =
pin was being pulled out. Assembly is another matter. The bearings don't =
bottom out in their recess so the inner race has nothing supporting it =
when I screw the pins into the swingarm, and one pin is not sliding into =
the inner race (the other pin fits into both races as it should). I =
don't want to hammer on it and dent the races. I've sanded it with some =
400 grit but I'm pretty sure the pins are hardened and so I haven't made =
any progress.
>>=20
>> Any thoughts on how to get this pin to fit in the bearing? Freezing =
it is not a great option because of the time it takes to get things =
installed, plus I'll need to do clearance adjustments.=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk =
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
>>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Good thought =
but I should have specified that I tried inserting the pin directly into =
the bearing race and it exhibited the same =
issue.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>jim<br><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>On Mar 23, 2024, at 10:14 PM, Al Fuller =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir=3D"auto"><div>Jim, I =
don't know this part/assembly but it seems to me that the original =
engineering would not have required hammering. Added to that one side =
goes in well but not the other, I'm wondering if the bike might have a =
little eccentricity in the fit-up? Is it possible that it was laid down =
at some point in the past and has a little twist in the =
assembly?</div><div><br></div><div =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">________________<br>Best =
Regards,<br>Al Fuller</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 23, 2024, 10:17 PM Jim =
Franklin &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I'm assembling a Moto =
Guzzi swingarm which attaches to the back of the gearbox. The gearbox =
has 2 recesses in which live plain roller bearings. The swingarm has =
threaded holes through which locating pins screw. The tips of the pins =
are unthreaded and locate into the ID of of the roller bearings. Parts =
#12 here:<br>
<br>
<a =
href=3D"https://harpermoto.com/collections/1980-1984-v-50-iii-500-swing-ar=
m" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://harpermoto.com/collections/1980-1984-v-50-iii-50=
0-swing-arm</a><br>
<br>
The pins are known for being stuck yet mine came out easily, probably =
because the inner race was able to rest against the swingarm while the =
pin was being pulled out. Assembly is another matter. The bearings don't =
bottom out in their recess so the inner race has nothing supporting it =
when I screw the pins into the swingarm, and one pin is not sliding into =
the inner race (the other pin fits into both races as it should). I =
don't want to hammer on it and dent the races. I've sanded it with some =
400 grit but I'm pretty sure the pins are hardened and so I haven't made =
any progress.<br>
<br>
Any thoughts on how to get this pin to fit in the bearing? Freezing it =
is not a great option because of the time it takes to get things =
installed, plus I'll need to do clearance adjustments. <br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
jim<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a><br>
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" =
rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/alfuller194@gmail.=
com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/alfuller=
[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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From: Al Fuller <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 07:49:54 -0300

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--000000000000ee01cd061465d14e

Well, ok then... BTW, are the bearings and races not in the diagram you
referenced or am I missing something?

________________
Best Regards,
Al Fuller

On Sat, Mar 23, 2024, 11:23 PM Jim Franklin <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Good thought but I should have specified that I tried inserting the pin
> directly into the bearing race and it exhibited the same issue.
>
> jim
>

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto"><div>Well, ok then... BTW, are the bearings and races not=
 in the diagram you referenced or am I missing something?</div><div><br></d=
iv><div data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">________________<br>Best Regards=
,<br>Al Fuller</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" c=
lass=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 23, 2024, 11:23 PM Jim Franklin &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"line-break:after-white-=
space">Good thought but I should have specified that I tried inserting the =
pin directly into the bearing race and it exhibited the same issue.=C2=A0<d=
iv><br></div><div>jim<br><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Mar 23,=
 2024, at 10:14 PM, Al Fuller &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</=
div><br><div><div dir=3D"auto"><div>Jim, I don&#39;t know this part/assembl=
y but it seems to me that the original engineering would not have required =
hammering. Added to that one side goes in well but not the other, I&#39;m w=
ondering if the bike might have a little eccentricity in the fit-up? Is it =
possible that it was laid down at some point in the past and has a little t=
wist in the assembly?</div><div><br></div><div data-smartmail=3D"gmail_sign=
ature">________________<br>Best Regards,<br>Al Fuller</div></div><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 23, =
2024, 10:17 PM Jim Franklin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border=
-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I&#39;m assembling a Moto Guzzi swin=
garm which attaches to the back of the gearbox. The gearbox has 2 recesses =
in which live plain roller bearings. The swingarm has threaded holes throug=
h which locating pins screw. The tips of the pins are unthreaded and locate=
 into the ID of of the roller bearings. Parts #12 here:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://harpermoto.com/collections/1980-1984-v-50-iii-500-swing-=
arm" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://har=
permoto.com/collections/1980-1984-v-50-iii-500-swing-arm</a><br>
<br>
The pins are known for being stuck yet mine came out easily, probably becau=
se the inner race was able to rest against the swingarm while the pin was b=
eing pulled out. Assembly is another matter. The bearings don&#39;t bottom =
out in their recess so the inner race has nothing supporting it when I scre=
w the pins into the swingarm, and one pin is not sliding into the inner rac=
e (the other pin fits into both races as it should). I don&#39;t want to ha=
mmer on it and dent the races. I&#39;ve sanded it with some 400 grit but I&=
#39;m pretty sure the pins are hardened and so I haven&#39;t made any progr=
ess.<br>
<br>
Any thoughts on how to get this pin to fit in the bearing? Freezing it is n=
ot a great option because of the time it takes to get things installed, plu=
s I&#39;ll need to do clearance adjustments. <br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
jim<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
errer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/=
shop-talk</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer n=
oreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><b=
r>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/alfuller194@gma=
il.com</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: old dirtbeard <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 06:17:23 -0700

--===============4670128087718620688==

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I had a '73 MG V7 Sport which had a different swing arm but a similar
arrangement.

I would think that if they came out easily, they should go back in
reasonably easily. If not, something is interfering with the refitment.

Perhaps:

   1. inspect the fitment for any scoring or swarth that could be
   interfering (I am certain that you already did this)
   2. Swap the left bearing for the right to see if there are
   dimensional differences.
   3. Swap the bearing side you insert first into the arm
   4. As mentioned, use a light abrasion like crocus cloth or scotch bright
   pads to polish up the surfaces of the bearing and the swingarm cylinders

I know that it is little help, but if they came out without hammering, they
should go back without hammering. Something has changed that is causing the
interference fitment now and you will need to determine what has
happened/changed during the R&R process.

best,

doug

On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 3:57=E2=80=AFAM Al Fuller <[email-masked]> w=
rote:

>> Jim, I don't know this part/assembly but it seems to me that the origina=
l
>> engineering would not have required hammering. Added to that one side go=
es
>>> gearbox. The gearbox has 2 recesses in which live plain roller bearings=
.
>>> The swingarm has threaded holes through which locating pins screw. The =
tips
>>> because the inner race was able to rest against the swingarm while the =
pin
>>> was being pulled out. Assembly is another matter. The bearings don't bo=
ttom
>>> screw the pins into the swingarm, and one pin is not sliding into the i=
nner
>>> hammer on it and dent the races. I've sanded it with some 400 grit but =
I'm
>>> Any thoughts on how to get this pin to fit in the bearing? Freezing it
>>> is not a great option because of the time it takes to get things instal=
led,
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I h=
ad a &#39;73 MG V7 Sport which had a different swing arm but a similar arra=
ngement.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I would think th=
at if they came out easily, they should go back in reasonably=C2=A0easily. =
If not, something is interfering with the refitment.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Perhaps:</div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-size:small"><ol><li>inspect the fitment for any scori=
ng or swarth that could be interfering (I am certain that you already did t=
his)</li><li>Swap the left bearing for the right=C2=A0to see if there are d=
imensional=C2=A0differences.</li><li>Swap the bearing side you insert first=
 into the arm=C2=A0</li><li>As mentioned, use a light abrasion like crocus =
cloth or scotch bright pads to polish up the surfaces of the bearing and th=
e swingarm cylinders</li></ol><div>I know that it is little help, but if th=
ey came out without hammering, they should go back without hammering. Somet=
hing has changed that is causing the interference fitment now and you will =
need to determine=C2=A0what has happened/changed during the R&amp;R process=
.</div><div><br></div><div>best,</div><div><br></div><div>doug</div></div><=
/div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">O=
n Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 3:57=E2=80=AFAM Al Fuller &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alfu=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div>Well, ok the=
n... BTW, are the bearings and races not in the diagram you referenced or a=
m I missing something?</div><div><br></div><div>________________<br>Best Re=
gards,<br>Al Fuller</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"l=
tr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 23, 2024, 11:23 PM Jim Franklin &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">jamesf@groupwbenc=
h.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:=
1ex"><div>Good thought but I should have specified that I tried inserting t=
he pin directly into the bearing race and it exhibited the same issue.=C2=
=A0<div><br></div><div>jim<br><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Ma=
r 23, 2024, at 10:14 PM, Al Fuller &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alfuller194@gmail.=
com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wro=
te:</div><br><div><div dir=3D"auto"><div>Jim, I don&#39;t know this part/as=
sembly but it seems to me that the original engineering would not have requ=
ired hammering. Added to that one side goes in well but not the other, I&#3=
9;m wondering if the bike might have a little eccentricity in the fit-up? I=
s it possible that it was laid down at some point in the past and has a lit=
tle twist in the assembly?</div><div><br></div><div>________________<br>Bes=
t Regards,<br>Al Fuller</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 23, 2024, 10:17 PM Jim Franklin &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_=
blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I&#39;m assembling a Moto Guzzi swingarm which=
 attaches to the back of the gearbox. The gearbox has 2 recesses in which l=
ive plain roller bearings. The swingarm has threaded holes through which lo=
cating pins screw. The tips of the pins are unthreaded and locate into the =
ID of of the roller bearings. Parts #12 here:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://harpermoto.com/collections/1980-1984-v-50-iii-500-swing-=
arm" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://har=
permoto.com/collections/1980-1984-v-50-iii-500-swing-arm</a><br>
<br>
The pins are known for being stuck yet mine came out easily, probably becau=
se the inner race was able to rest against the swingarm while the pin was b=
eing pulled out. Assembly is another matter. The bearings don&#39;t bottom =
out in their recess so the inner race has nothing supporting it when I scre=
w the pins into the swingarm, and one pin is not sliding into the inner rac=
e (the other pin fits into both races as it should). I don&#39;t want to ha=
mmer on it and dent the races. I&#39;ve sanded it with some 400 grit but I&=
#39;m pretty sure the pins are hardened and so I haven&#39;t made any progr=
ess.<br>
<br>
Any thoughts on how to get this pin to fit in the bearing? Freezing it is n=
ot a great option because of the time it takes to get things installed, plu=
s I&#39;ll need to do clearance adjustments. <br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
jim<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
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=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/alfuller194@gma=
il.com</a><br>
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</blockquote></div>
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[email-masked]

--===============4670128087718620688==--

---

From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 08:41:55 -0500

--===============5866373729048758893==
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Not knowing anything about this motorcycle,=
 but if the shaft is cylindrical, try putting the shaft in backwards.&nbsp;<=
div><br></div><div>Peace, Pat</div><div><br id=3D"lineBreakAtBeginningOfSign=
ature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Pat Horne&nbsp;<div>We support Habitat for Humanity<=
/div><div><br></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Mar 24, 2024, at 8:33=E2=80=
=AFAM, old dirtbeard &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:small">I had a '73 MG V7 Sport which had a different swing arm but a=
 similar arrangement.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:s=
mall"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I wou=
ld think that if they came out easily, they should go back in reasonably&nbs=
p;easily. If not, something is interfering with the refitment.&nbsp;&nbsp;</=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Perhaps:</div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><ol><li>inspect the fitment for any=
 scoring or swarth that could be interfering (I am certain that you already d=
id this)</li><li>Swap the left bearing for the right&nbsp;to see if there ar=
e dimensional&nbsp;differences.</li><li>Swap the bearing side you insert fir=
st into the arm&nbsp;</li><li>As mentioned, use a light abrasion like crocus=
 cloth or scotch bright pads to polish up the surfaces of the bearing and th=
e swingarm cylinders</li></ol><div>I know that it is little help, but if the=
y came out without hammering, they should go back without hammering. Somethi=
ng has changed that is causing the interference fitment now and you will nee=
d to determine&nbsp;what has happened/changed during the R&amp;R process.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>best,</div><div><br></div><div>doug</div></div></div>=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun,=
 Mar 24, 2024 at 3:57=E2=80=AFAM Al Fuller &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alfuller194=
@gmail.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div>Well, ok then... BTW, ar=
e the bearings and races not in the diagram you referenced or am I missing s=
omething?</div><div><br></div><div>________________<br>Best Regards,<br>Al Fu=
ller</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gma=
il_attr">On Sat, Mar 23, 2024, 11:23 PM Jim Franklin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:j=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Good thoug=
ht but I should have specified that I tried inserting the pin directly into t=
he bearing race and it exhibited the same issue.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>ji=
m<br><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Mar 23, 2024, at 10:14 PM, A=
l Fuller &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><div dir=3D=
"auto"><div>Jim, I don't know this part/assembly but it seems to me that the=
 original engineering would not have required hammering. Added to that one s=
ide goes in well but not the other, I'm wondering if the bike might have a l=
ittle eccentricity in the fit-up? Is it possible that it was laid down at so=
me point in the past and has a little twist in the assembly?</div><div><br><=
/div><div>________________<br>Best Regards,<br>Al Fuller</div></div><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 23,=
 2024, 10:17 PM Jim Franklin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" r=
el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I'm assembling a Mot=
o Guzzi swingarm which attaches to the back of the gearbox. The gearbox has 2=
 recesses in which live plain roller bearings. The swingarm has threaded hol=
es through which locating pins screw. The tips of the pins are unthreaded an=
d locate into the ID of of the roller bearings. Parts #12 here:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://harpermoto.com/collections/1980-1984-v-50-iii-500-swing-a=
rm" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://harpe=
rmoto.com/collections/1980-1984-v-50-iii-500-swing-arm</a><br>
<br>
The pins are known for being stuck yet mine came out easily, probably becaus=
e the inner race was able to rest against the swingarm while the pin was bei=
ng pulled out. Assembly is another matter. The bearings don't bottom out in t=
heir recess so the inner race has nothing supporting it when I screw the pin=
s into the swingarm, and one pin is not sliding into the inner race (the oth=
er pin fits into both races as it should). I don't want to hammer on it and d=
ent the races. I've sanded it with some 400 grit but I'm pretty sure the pin=
s are hardened and so I haven't made any progress.<br>
<br>
Any thoughts on how to get this pin to fit in the bearing? Freezing it is no=
t a great option because of the time it takes to get things installed, plus I=
'll need to do clearance adjustments. <br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
jim<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
rrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"noreferr=
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op-talk</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer nore=
ferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
lk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]=
om</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div>
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am.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span></span=
><br><span>[email-masked]</span><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.=
net/donate.html</span><br><span>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.96</span=
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[email-masked]

--===============5866373729048758893==--

---

From: Jim Franklin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 09:58:07 -0400

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The right side pin fits into both bearings so it isn't the bearing =
races, the problem is the left pin.=20

It came out "easily" because it's a fine threaded pin and the bearing =
race had the swingarm face to rest against during unthreading and mask =
any issue. Very much like removng a nail with a claw hammer- there's the =
wood surface to lever against.=20

Going in there is nothing to brace the race against because of the =
clearance behind it.=20

I could clamp the swingarm sides together but I'd still have a ton of =
stiction on that pin, which I can't have if I'm going to set the =
clearances.=20

I can't remember if the list accepts pictures but here is the setup. =
What's the most baffling is both pins measure 0.5900" around the entire =
circumference at the trouble point. Right pin still has anti-sieze on =
it. The friend with the lathe might have some crocus cloth, I'll try =
that tonight.=20

jim

=EF=BF=BC

=EF=BF=BC

> On Mar 24, 2024, at 9:17 AM, old dirtbeard <[email-masked]> =
wrote:
>=20
> I had a '73 MG V7 Sport which had a different swing arm but a similar =
arrangement.
>=20
> I would think that if they came out easily, they should go back in =
reasonably easily. If not, something is interfering with the refitment. =20=

>=20
> Perhaps:
> inspect the fitment for any scoring or swarth that could be =
> Swap the left bearing for the right to see if there are dimensional =
differences.
> Swap the bearing side you insert first into the arm=20
> As mentioned, use a light abrasion like crocus cloth or scotch bright =
> I know that it is little help, but if they came out without hammering, =
they should go back without hammering. Something has changed that is =
causing the interference fitment now and you will need to determine what =
has happened/changed during the R&R process.
>=20
> best,
>=20
> doug
>=20
> On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 3:57=E2=80=AFAM Al Fuller =
>> Well, ok then... BTW, are the bearings and races not in the diagram =
you referenced or am I missing something?
>>=20
>> ________________
>> Best Regards,
>> Al Fuller
>>=20
>> On Sat, Mar 23, 2024, 11:23 PM Jim Franklin <[email-masked] =
>>> Good thought but I should have specified that I tried inserting the =
pin directly into the bearing race and it exhibited the same issue.=20
>>>=20
>>> jim
>>>=20
>>>> On Mar 23, 2024, at 10:14 PM, Al Fuller <[email-masked] =
>>>>=20
the gearbox. The gearbox has 2 recesses in which live plain roller =
bearings. The swingarm has threaded holes through which locating pins =
screw. The tips of the pins are unthreaded and locate into the ID of of =
the roller bearings. Parts #12 here:
>>>>> =
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The pins are known for being stuck yet mine came out easily, =
probably because the inner race was able to rest against the swingarm =
while the pin was being pulled out. Assembly is another matter. The =
bearings don't bottom out in their recess so the inner race has nothing =
supporting it when I screw the pins into the swingarm, and one pin is =
not sliding into the inner race (the other pin fits into both races as =
it should). I don't want to hammer on it and dent the races. I've sanded =
it with some 400 grit but I'm pretty sure the pins are hardened and so I =
haven't made any progress.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Any thoughts on how to get this pin to fit in the bearing? =
Freezing it is not a great option because of the time it takes to get =
things installed, plus I'll need to do clearance adjustments.=20

--Apple-Mail=_6E5BB57A-E833-41B0-A9CA-4DBA9AABFF8B
	type="text/html";
	boundary="Apple-Mail=_8E7E9E77-4717-4AAA-8F58-266B7A77A44F"

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">The right side =
pin fits into both bearings so it isn't the bearing races, the problem =
is the left pin.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>It came out "easily" because =
it's a fine threaded pin and the bearing race had the swingarm face to =
rest against during unthreading and mask any issue. Very much like =
removng a nail with a claw hammer- there's the wood surface to lever =
against.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Going in there is nothing to =
brace the race against because of the clearance behind =
it.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I could clamp the swingarm sides =
together but I'd still have a ton of stiction on that pin, which I can't =
have if I'm going to set the =
clearances.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I can't remember if the list =
accepts pictures but here is the setup. What's the most baffling is both =
pins measure 0.5900" around the entire circumference at the trouble =
point. Right pin still has anti-sieze on it. The friend with the lathe =
might have some crocus cloth, I'll try that =
tonight.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>jim</div><div><br></div><div><img =
alt=3D"IMG_7679.jpeg" =
src=3D"cid:C7181A1E-E5C8-4E46-867D-CCE667D6A659"></div><div><br></div><div=
><img alt=3D"IMG_7680.jpeg" =
src=3D"cid:3B7398FC-8366-4392-8C44-604572A40CB7"><br><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>On Mar 24, 2024, at 9:17 AM, old dirtbeard =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I had a '73 MG V7 =
Sport which had a different swing arm but a similar =
arrangement.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-size:small">I would think that if they came out easily, =
they should go back in reasonably&nbsp;easily. If not, something is =
interfering with the refitment.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Perhaps:</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><ol><li>inspect the =
fitment for any scoring or swarth that could be interfering (I am =
certain that you already did this)</li><li>Swap the left bearing for the =
right&nbsp;to see if there are =
dimensional&nbsp;differences.</li><li>Swap the bearing side you insert =
first into the arm&nbsp;</li><li>As mentioned, use a light abrasion like =
crocus cloth or scotch bright pads to polish up the surfaces of the =
bearing and the swingarm cylinders</li></ol><div>I know that it is =
little help, but if they came out without hammering, they should go back =
without hammering. Something has changed that is causing the =
interference fitment now and you will need to determine&nbsp;what has =
happened/changed during the R&amp;R =
process.</div><div><br></div><div>best,</div><div><br></div><div>doug</div=
></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 3:57=E2=80=AFAM Al Fuller =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div>Well, ok =
then... BTW, are the bearings and races not in the diagram you =
referenced or am I missing =
something?</div><div><br></div><div>________________<br>Best =
Regards,<br>Al Fuller</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 23, 2024, 11:23 PM Jim =
Franklin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Good thought but I should have =
specified that I tried inserting the pin directly into the bearing race =
and it exhibited the same =
issue.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>jim<br><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>On Mar 23, 2024, at 10:14 PM, Al Fuller &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br><div><div dir=3D"auto"><div>Jim, I don't know this =
part/assembly but it seems to me that the original engineering would not =
have required hammering. Added to that one side goes in well but not the =
other, I'm wondering if the bike might have a little eccentricity in the =
fit-up? Is it possible that it was laid down at some point in the past =
and has a little twist in the =
assembly?</div><div><br></div><div>________________<br>Best =
Regards,<br>Al Fuller</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 23, 2024, 10:17 PM Jim =
Franklin &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I'm assembling a Moto Guzzi swingarm =
which attaches to the back of the gearbox. The gearbox has 2 recesses in =
which live plain roller bearings. The swingarm has threaded holes =
through which locating pins screw. The tips of the pins are unthreaded =
and locate into the ID of of the roller bearings. Parts #12 here:<br>
<br>
<a =
href=3D"https://harpermoto.com/collections/1980-1984-v-50-iii-500-swing-ar=
m" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://harpermoto.com/collections/1980-1984-v-50-iii-50=
0-swing-arm</a><br>
<br>
The pins are known for being stuck yet mine came out easily, probably =
because the inner race was able to rest against the swingarm while the =
pin was being pulled out. Assembly is another matter. The bearings don't =
bottom out in their recess so the inner race has nothing supporting it =
when I screw the pins into the swingarm, and one pin is not sliding into =
the inner race (the other pin fits into both races as it should). I =
don't want to hammer on it and dent the races. I've sanded it with some =
400 grit but I'm pretty sure the pins are hardened and so I haven't made =
any progress.<br>
<br>
Any thoughts on how to get this pin to fit in the bearing? Freezing it =
is not a great option because of the time it takes to get things =
installed, plus I'll need to do clearance adjustments. <br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
jim<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
noreferrer noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" =
rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/alfuller194@gmail.=
com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/alfuller=
[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" =
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href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]=
m" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbear=
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