Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil

From: old dirtbeard <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 05:28:04 -0800

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HI Moose,

Surprised to hear that there was sludge in the oil when you drained it; I
have not experienced that when changing my oil.

I also thank you for posting this message as it reminded me that I have not
changed the oil in my compressor for a long time and need to look for oil.

I saw this Quincy article on compressor oil options, but it does sound like
compressor oil mainly needs to be non-detergent to eliminate carbon
build-up (I never could understand why automotive engine oil would create
carbon in a compressor which I have to believe runs at a much
lower temperature than a compressor, but that is their statement), but also=
:

   - Heat absorption: Air compressor oil absorbs the heat produced from
   compressed air, thereby keeping the compressor at a cooler temperature.
   - Oxidation resistance: Air compressor oil contains additives that delay
   the oxidation process and acid formation.
   - Longer life span: The additives in air compressor oil also increase
   the lubricant=E2=80=99s lifetime, protect machine components when on sta=
ndby and
   make the lubricant compatible with a wide variety of conditions.
   - Viscosity in cold temperatures: Although some oils fail to do their
   job once the temperature drops, air compressor oil maintains its viscosi=
ty
   even when it=E2=80=99s cold.
   - Demulsification: Air compressor oil also contains additives designed
   to improve water separation, which will protect the compressor from wate=
r
   and oil emulsions. This makes it easier for the oleophilic bags to captu=
re
   the oil later on.
   - Anti-foaming abilities: When big air bubbles rise to the oil=E2=80=99s
   surface, foam is produced. This increases oxidation because it exposes m=
ore
   of the oil=E2=80=99s surface to oxygen. Without anti-foaming additives, =
the oil
   separators would be saturated by the foam and the air compressor=E2=80=
=99s life
   span would decrease. This is because saturated oil separators create a
   pressure drop, which leads to more energy consumption.

Another article I read recommends these three:
1. Dewalt Synthetic Air Compressor Oil
<https://www.tooltally.com/best-oil-for-air-compressor/#1_Dewalt_Synthetic_=
Air_Compressor_Oil>
2. Royal Purple 01513 Synthetic Air Compressor Oil
<https://www.tooltally.com/best-oil-for-air-compressor/#2_Royal_Purple_0151=
3_Synthetic_Air_Compressor_Oil>
3. Campbell Hausfeld MP12 Standard Compressor Lubricant
<https://www.tooltally.com/best-oil-for-air-compressor/#3_Campbell_Hausfeld=
_MP12_Standard_Compressor_Lubricant>

The Dewalt is 20wt and better for start-ups in colder climates.
Royal Purple is 30wt and better for warmer climates. The author said for
hard working compressors, this is his first choice. The CH is his
recommendation for older pumps with more blow-by.

It also says change the oil every 800 hours, or minimally once a year.
Unless I am in a major project,  I probably do not get 800 hours of runtime
a year, but an annual change will be on the calendar from now on.

Thank you again, Moose for your post; best post of the day for me. I will
be changing my oil this week, will be using Royal Purple, and will put a
recurring reminder on my Outlook calendar to change it yearly, at least.

Best,

doug

On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 12:19=E2=80=AFAM Moose <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got
> it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free,
> right away.)
>
> Anyway.  I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but
> when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge.
>
> I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever.  It was a
> pain to clean it out.
> In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand
> that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil.  No alternatives or
> specs
>
> The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fil=
l
> out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then
> pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.)
>
> Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to fin=
d
> out if  can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little
> easier to deal with.  Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on
> Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it remin=
ds
> me to change the oil.
>
> OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change?
>
> Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is
> easier to get and or better.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Moose_______________________________________________
>
> [email-masked]
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">HI =
Moose,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"">Surprised to hear=C2=A0that there=
 was sludge in the oil when you drained it; I have not experienced that whe=
n changing my oil.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"">I also thank you for posting this me=
ssage as it reminded me that I have not changed the oil in my compressor fo=
r a long time and need to look for oil.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D""><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"">I saw thi=
s Quincy article on compressor oil options, but it does sound like compress=
or oil mainly needs to be non-detergent to eliminate carbon build-up (I nev=
er could understand why automotive engine oil would create carbon in a comp=
ressor which=C2=A0I have to believe=C2=A0runs at a much lower=C2=A0temperat=
ure than a compressor, but that is their statement), but also:</div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D""><ul style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 0px 16px;padding:=
0px;list-style:none;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&quot;Source Sans Pro&quot=
;,sans-serif"><li style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;padding:0px 0px 20px 15px;=
line-height:1.5em"><span style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:700">He=
at absorption:</span>=C2=A0Air compressor oil absorbs the heat produced fro=
m compressed air, thereby keeping the compressor at a cooler temperature.</=
li><li style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;padding:0px 0px 20px 15px;line-height=
:1.5em"><span style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:700">Oxidation res=
istance:</span>=C2=A0Air compressor oil contains additives that delay the o=
xidation process and acid formation.</li><li style=3D"box-sizing:border-box=
;padding:0px 0px 20px 15px;line-height:1.5em"><span style=3D"box-sizing:bor=
der-box;font-weight:700">Longer=C2=A0life span:</span>=C2=A0The additives i=
n air compressor oil also increase the lubricant=E2=80=99s lifetime, protec=
t machine components when on standby and make the lubricant compatible with=
 a wide variety of conditions.</li><li style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;paddi=
ng:0px 0px 20px 15px;line-height:1.5em"><span style=3D"box-sizing:border-bo=
x;font-weight:700">Viscosity in cold temperatures:</span>=C2=A0Although som=
e oils fail to do their job once the temperature drops, air compressor oil =
maintains its viscosity even when it=E2=80=99s cold.</li><li style=3D"box-s=
izing:border-box;padding:0px 0px 20px 15px;line-height:1.5em"><span style=
=3D"box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:700">Demulsification:</span>=C2=A0Air=
 compressor oil also contains additives designed to improve water separatio=
n, which will protect the compressor from water and oil emulsions. This mak=
es it easier for the oleophilic bags to capture the oil later on.</li><li s=
tyle=3D"box-sizing:border-box;padding:0px 0px 20px 15px;line-height:1.5em">=
<span style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:700">Anti-foaming abilitie=
s:</span>=C2=A0When big air bubbles rise to the oil=E2=80=99s surface, foam=
 is produced. This increases oxidation because it exposes more of the oil=
=E2=80=99s surface to oxygen. Without anti-foaming additives, the oil separ=
ators would be saturated by the foam and the air compressor=E2=80=99s=C2=A0=
life span=C2=A0would decrease. This is because saturated oil separators cre=
ate a pressure drop, which leads to more energy consumption.</li></ul></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"">Another article I read recommends these three:</div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><div class=3D"gmail-lwptoc_item" style=3D"=
box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;margin:0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-a=
lign:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-=
serif;background-color:rgb(250,250,250)"><a href=3D"https://www.tooltally.c=
om/best-oil-for-air-compressor/#1_Dewalt_Synthetic_Air_Compressor_Oil" styl=
e=3D"box-sizing:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin:0px;o=
utline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent=
;color:rgb(30,115,190);border:none;text-decoration-line:none"><span class=
=3D"gmail-lwptoc_item_label" style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;font-st=
yle:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin:0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical=
-align:baseline"><font size=3D"2">1. Dewalt Synthetic Air Compressor Oil</f=
ont></span></a></div><div class=3D"gmail-lwptoc_item" style=3D"box-sizing:i=
nherit;border:0px;margin:2px 0px 0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align=
:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-seri=
f;background-color:rgb(250,250,250)"><a href=3D"https://www.tooltally.com/b=
est-oil-for-air-compressor/#2_Royal_Purple_01513_Synthetic_Air_Compressor_O=
il" style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;marg=
in:0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:tra=
nsparent;color:rgb(129,215,66);border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bot=
tom:1px dotted;border-left:none;text-decoration-line:none"><span class=3D"g=
mail-lwptoc_item_label" style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;font-style:i=
nherit;font-weight:inherit;margin:0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-alig=
n:baseline"><font size=3D"2">2. Royal Purple 01513 Synthetic Air Compressor=
 Oil</font></span></a></div><div class=3D"gmail-lwptoc_item" style=3D"box-s=
izing:inherit;border:0px;margin:2px 0px 0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertica=
l-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,sa=
ns-serif;background-color:rgb(250,250,250)"><a href=3D"https://www.tooltall=
y.com/best-oil-for-air-compressor/#3_Campbell_Hausfeld_MP12_Standard_Compre=
ssor_Lubricant" style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-weight:=
inherit;margin:0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;backgrou=
nd-color:transparent;color:rgb(30,115,190);border:none;text-decoration-line=
:none"><span class=3D"gmail-lwptoc_item_label" style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;=
border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin:0px;outline:0px;pa=
dding:0px;vertical-align:baseline"><font size=3D"2">3. Campbell Hausfeld MP=
12 Standard Compressor Lubricant</font></span></a></div><div class=3D"gmail=
-lwptoc_item" style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;margin:2px 0px 0px;out=
line:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-famil=
y:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(250,250,250)"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail-lwptoc_item" style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;border:=
0px;margin:2px 0px 0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;colo=
r:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-serif;background-c=
olor:rgb(250,250,250)">The Dewalt is 20wt and better for start-ups in colde=
r climates. Royal=C2=A0Purple is 30wt and better for warmer climates. The a=
uthor said for hard working compressors, this is his first choice. The CH i=
s his recommendation for older pumps with more blow-by.</div><div class=3D"=
gmail-lwptoc_item" style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;margin:2px 0px 0p=
x;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-=
family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(250,250,250)=
"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail-lwptoc_item" style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;bo=
rder:0px;margin:2px 0px 0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline=
;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-serif;backgro=
und-color:rgb(250,250,250)">It also says change the oil every 800 hours, or=
 minimally once a year. Unless I am in a major project,=C2=A0 I probably do=
 not get 800 hours of runtime a year, but an annual change will be on the c=
alendar from now on.</div><div class=3D"gmail-lwptoc_item" style=3D"box-siz=
ing:inherit;border:0px;margin:2px 0px 0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-=
align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,sans=
-serif;background-color:rgb(250,250,250)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail-lwp=
toc_item" style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;margin:2px 0px 0px;outline=
:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Ar=
ial,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(250,250,250)">Thank y=
ou again, Moose for your post; best post of the day for me. I will be chang=
ing my oil this week, will be using Royal Purple, and will put a recurring =
reminder on my Outlook calendar to change it yearly, at least.</div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail-lwptoc_item" style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;margin:2px=
 0px 0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51=
);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(250,2=
50,250)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail-lwptoc_item" style=3D"box-sizing:inh=
erit;border:0px;margin:2px 0px 0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:b=
aseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-serif;=
background-color:rgb(250,250,250)">Best,</div><div class=3D"gmail-lwptoc_it=
em" style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;margin:2px 0px 0px;outline:0px;p=
adding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,He=
lvetica,Verdana,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(250,250,250)"><br></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail-lwptoc_item" style=3D"box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;margin=
:2px 0px 0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,5=
1,51);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(2=
50,250,250)">doug</div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 12:19=E2=80=AFAM Moose=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><font size=3D"2"=
 face=3D"sans-serif">I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP)
that has been flawless since I got it (not, the first one I got had a bad
weld, but they replaced it, free, right away.)</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Anyway.=C2=A0 I maybe let the oil =
go
a little too long between changes, but when I went to change it this time,
the oil was filled with sludge.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">I use the Eaton oil, and the compr=
essor
is not overworked ever.=C2=A0 It was a pain to clean it out.</font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">In the manual, it says I can&#39;t=
 use automotive
oil (and I can understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their
oil.=C2=A0 No alternatives or specs</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">The problem is that ordering the o=
il
from them is a pain (you have to fill out a form. Then wait for them to
send an invoice a few days later, then pay the invoice and wait for them
to ship it.)</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Don&#39;t get me wrong, I think th=
ey are
a great company, but I wanted to find out if =C2=A0can get the same (or
better) oil from a place that is a little easier to deal with.=C2=A0 Ideall=
y,
I would love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a &#39;reoccurrin=
g
delivery&#39; for every 6 months so it reminds me to change the oil.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">OR, is their an oil that doesn&#39=
;t turn
to sludge and is easy to change?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Again, overall, I am not looking f=
or
a cheaper oil, just one that is easier to get and or better.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Thanks!</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Moose</font>______________________=
_________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 06:59:42 -0800

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My late father had a 5HP, 60gal DeVilbiss he bought probably 30 or more 
years ago; it gets light/medium duty on our ranch. He probably changed 
the oil a couple times but not in the last 10 years or so that I know 
of. The motor cooked a while back--after a large painting job--and I 
installed a new one with a new belt, and changed out the oil. I did a 
lot of 'shopping,' but was mostly considering price. These days, 
synthetic is often the same price or even cheaper and I think 
by-and-large it's better oil (the old tractors still get cheap mineral 
10W-40, the Healeys get Valvoline 20W-50 Racing and the Mustang gets 
Ford's ubiquitous 5W-20 semi-syn; free from the dealer). I settled on this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1UZMJJOVEC3U&th=1

I pumped the old oil out the top with a vacuum unit and didn't see any 
evidence of sludge and, actually I wouldn't expect any since you're not 
dealing with combustion byproducts.

Bob

On 1/5/2024 6:51 AM, Moose wrote:
> I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I 
> got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, 
> free, right away.)
>
> I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever.  It 
> was a pain to clean it out.
> In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can 
> understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil.  No 
> alternatives or specs
>
> The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to 
> fill out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days 
> later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.)
>
> Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to 
> find out if  can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a 
> little easier to deal with.  Ideally, I would love to find the correct 
> oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months 
> so it reminds me to change the oil.
>
> Moose
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>

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<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
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  <body>
    My late father had a 5HP, 60gal DeVilbiss he bought probably 30 or
    more years ago; it gets light/medium duty on our ranch. He probably
    changed the oil a couple times but not in the last 10 years or so
    that I know of. The motor cooked a while back--after a large
    painting job--and I installed a new one with a new belt, and changed
    out the oil. I did a lot of 'shopping,' but was mostly considering
    price. These days, synthetic is often the same price or even cheaper
    and I think by-and-large it's better oil (the old tractors still get
    cheap mineral 10W-40, the Healeys get Valvoline 20W-50 Racing and
    the Mustang gets Ford's ubiquitous 5W-20 semi-syn; free from the
    dealer). I settled on this:<br>
    <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1UZMJJOVEC3U&amp;th=1">https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1UZMJJOVEC3U&amp;th=1</a><br>
    <br>
    I pumped the old oil out the top with a vacuum unit and didn't see
    any evidence of sludge and, actually I wouldn't expect any since
    you're not dealing with combustion byproducts. <br>
    <br>
    Bob <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/5/2024 6:51 AM, Moose wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <font size="2" face="sans-serif">I have a nice Eaton compressor
        (7.5HP)
        that has been flawless since I got it (not, the first one I got
        had a bad
        weld, but they replaced it, free, right away.)</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="sans-serif">Anyway.  I maybe let the oil go
        a little too long between changes, but when I went to change it
        this time,
        the oil was filled with sludge.</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="sans-serif">I use the Eaton oil, and the
        compressor
        is not overworked ever.  It was a pain to clean it out.</font>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="sans-serif">In the manual, it says I can't
        use automotive
        oil (and I can understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part #
        for their
        oil.  No alternatives or specs</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="sans-serif">The problem is that ordering the
        oil
        from them is a pain (you have to fill out a form. Then wait for
        them to
        send an invoice a few days later, then pay the invoice and wait
        for them
        to ship it.)</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="sans-serif">Don't get me wrong, I think they
        are
        a great company, but I wanted to find out if  can get the same
        (or
        better) oil from a place that is a little easier to deal with.
         Ideally,
        I would love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a
        'reoccurring
        delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds me to change the oil.</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="sans-serif">OR, is their an oil that doesn't
        turn
        to sludge and is easy to change?</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="sans-serif">Again, overall, I am not looking
        for
        a cheaper oil, just one that is easier to get and or better.</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="sans-serif">Thanks!</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="sans-serif">Moose</font>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>

</pre>
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From: old dirtbeard <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 08:38:09 -0800

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Hi Bob,

Wow, that sounds like good oil, US-made, and the price is great.

Thank you.

best,

doug

On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 8:25=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> w=
rote:

> years ago; it gets light/medium duty on our ranch. He probably changed th=
e
> oil a couple times but not in the last 10 years or so that I know of. The
> motor cooked a while back--after a large painting job--and I installed a
> new one with a new belt, and changed out the oil. I did a lot of
> 'shopping,' but was mostly considering price. These days, synthetic is
> often the same price or even cheaper and I think by-and-large it's better
> oil (the old tractors still get cheap mineral 10W-40, the Healeys get
> Valvoline 20W-50 Racing and the Mustang gets Ford's ubiquitous 5W-20
> semi-syn; free from the dealer). I settled on this:
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=3Dewc_pr_img_1?smid=3DA1=
UZMJJOVEC3U&th=3D1
l
d
ds
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar=
chive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspid=
[email-masked]

--000000000000a823ed060e49975f
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Hi =
Bob,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Wow, that sounds lik=
e good oil, US-made, and the price is great.</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-size:small">Thank you.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:=
small">best,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><b=
r></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">doug</div></=
div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On=
 Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 8:25=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bspi=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>

 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
    My late father had a 5HP, 60gal DeVilbiss he bought probably 30 or
    more years ago; it gets light/medium duty on our ranch. He probably
    changed the oil a couple times but not in the last 10 years or so
    that I know of. The motor cooked a while back--after a large
    painting job--and I installed a new one with a new belt, and changed
    out the oil. I did a lot of &#39;shopping,&#39; but was mostly consider=
ing
    price. These days, synthetic is often the same price or even cheaper
    and I think by-and-large it&#39;s better oil (the old tractors still ge=
t
    cheap mineral 10W-40, the Healeys get Valvoline 20W-50 Racing and
    the Mustang gets Ford&#39;s ubiquitous 5W-20 semi-syn; free from the
    dealer). I settled on this:<br>
    <br>
<a href=3D"https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=3Dewc_pr_img_1?=
smid=3DA1UZMJJOVEC3U&amp;th=3D1" target=3D"_blank">https://www.amazon.com/g=
p/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=3Dewc_pr_img_1?smid=3DA1UZMJJOVEC3U&amp;th=3D1</a>=
<br>
    <br>
    I pumped the old oil out the top with a vacuum unit and didn&#39;t see
    any evidence of sludge and, actually I wouldn&#39;t expect any since
    you&#39;re not dealing with combustion byproducts. <br>
    <br>
    Bob <br>
    <br>
    <div>On 1/5/2024 6:51 AM, Moose wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">I have a nice Eaton compressor
        (7.5HP)
        that has been flawless since I got it (not, the first one I got
        had a bad
        weld, but they replaced it, free, right away.)</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Anyway.=C2=A0 I maybe let the oi=
l go
        a little too long between changes, but when I went to change it
        this time,
        the oil was filled with sludge.</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">I use the Eaton oil, and the
        compressor
        is not overworked ever.=C2=A0 It was a pain to clean it out.</font>
      <br>
      <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">In the manual, it says I can&#39=
;t
        use automotive
        oil (and I can understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part #
        for their
        oil.=C2=A0 No alternatives or specs</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">The problem is that ordering the
        oil
        from them is a pain (you have to fill out a form. Then wait for
        them to
        send an invoice a few days later, then pay the invoice and wait
        for them
        to ship it.)</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Don&#39;t get me wrong, I think =
they
        are
        a great company, but I wanted to find out if =C2=A0can get the same
        (or
        better) oil from a place that is a little easier to deal with.
        =C2=A0Ideally,
        I would love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a
        &#39;reoccurring
        delivery&#39; for every 6 months so it reminds me to change the oil=
.</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">OR, is their an oil that doesn&#=
39;t
        turn
        to sludge and is easy to change?</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Again, overall, I am not looking
        for
        a cheaper oil, just one that is easier to get and or better.</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Thanks!</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Moose</font>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <pre>_______________________________________________

<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a>
//www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" target=3D"_bla=
nk">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.tea=
m.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>

alk/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/o=
ptions/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div>

_______________________________________________<br>
<br>

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[email-masked]

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From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 10:17:18 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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You're quite welcome. I didn't even catch the 'made in USA;' I assumed 
it was German, what with 'Kompressor.'

I needed a little less than a half-gallon. Since I don't know what was 
in the pump, and I didn't drain/clean it all that well I figure I'll run 
for a year or so, then change it out one more time then never again.

bs

On 1/6/2024 8:38 AM, old dirtbeard wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 8:25 AM Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>     more years ago; it gets light/medium duty on our ranch. He
>     probably changed the oil a couple times but not in the last 10
>     years or so that I know of. The motor cooked a while back--after a
>     large painting job--and I installed a new one with a new belt, and
>     changed out the oil. I did a lot of 'shopping,' but was mostly
>     considering price. These days, synthetic is often the same price
>     or even cheaper and I think by-and-large it's better oil (the old
>     tractors still get cheap mineral 10W-40, the Healeys get Valvoline
>     20W-50 Racing and the Mustang gets Ford's ubiquitous 5W-20
>     <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1UZMJJOVEC3U&th=1>
>
>     you're not dealing with combustion byproducts.
>
>     Bob
>
>>     I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless
>>     since I got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they
>>     replaced it, free, right away.)
>>
>>     Anyway.  I maybe let the oil go a little too long between
>>     changes, but when I went to change it this time, the oil was
>>     filled with sludge.
>>
>>     I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever. 
>>     It was a pain to clean it out.
>>     understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil. 
>>     No alternatives or specs
>>
>>     The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you
>>     have to fill out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a
>>     few days later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.)
>>
>>     Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I
>>     wanted to find out if  can get the same (or better) oil from a
>>     place that is a little easier to deal with.  Ideally, I would
>>     love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring
>>     delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds me to change the oil.
>>
>>     Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that
>>     is easier to get and or better.
>>
>>     Thanks!
>>
>>     Moose
>
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  <body>
    You're quite welcome. I didn't even catch the 'made in USA;' I
    assumed it was German, what with 'Kompressor.'<br>
    <br>
    I needed a little less than a half-gallon. Since I don't know what
    was in the pump, and I didn't drain/clean it all that well I figure
    I'll run for a year or so, then change it out one more time then
    never again.<br>
    <br>
    bs<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/6/2024 8:38 AM, old dirtbeard
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAG1pxgYwwPewDjDMeeNGJnuktR00+NNmVQS6McTxFPVqA4F=[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Hi Bob,</div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Wow, that
          sounds like good oil, US-made, and the price is great.</div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Thank you.</div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">best,</div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">doug</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 8:25 AM
          Bob Spidell &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div> My late father had a 5HP, 60gal DeVilbiss he bought
            probably 30 or more years ago; it gets light/medium duty on
            our ranch. He probably changed the oil a couple times but
            not in the last 10 years or so that I know of. The motor
            cooked a while back--after a large painting job--and I
            installed a new one with a new belt, and changed out the
            oil. I did a lot of 'shopping,' but was mostly considering
            price. These days, synthetic is often the same price or even
            cheaper and I think by-and-large it's better oil (the old
            tractors still get cheap mineral 10W-40, the Healeys get
            Valvoline 20W-50 Racing and the Mustang gets Ford's
            ubiquitous 5W-20 semi-syn; free from the dealer). I settled
            on this:<br>
            <br>
            <a
href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1UZMJJOVEC3U&amp;th=1"
              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1UZMJJOVEC3U&amp;th=1</a><br>
            <br>
            I pumped the old oil out the top with a vacuum unit and
            didn't see any evidence of sludge and, actually I wouldn't
            expect any since you're not dealing with combustion
            byproducts. <br>
            <br>
            Bob <br>
            <br>
            <div>On 1/5/2024 6:51 AM, Moose wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite"> <font size="2" face="sans-serif">I
                have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been
                flawless since I got it (not, the first one I got had a
                bad weld, but they replaced it, free, right away.)</font>
              <br>
              <br>
              <font size="2" face="sans-serif">Anyway.  I maybe let the
                oil go a little too long between changes, but when I
                went to change it this time, the oil was filled with
                sludge.</font> <br>
              <br>
              <font size="2" face="sans-serif">I use the Eaton oil, and
                the compressor is not overworked ever.  It was a pain to
                clean it out.</font> <br>
              <font size="2" face="sans-serif">In the manual, it says I
                can't use automotive oil (and I can understand that.)
                but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil.  No
                alternatives or specs</font> <br>
              <br>
              <font size="2" face="sans-serif">The problem is that
                ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fill
                out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few
                days later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to
                ship it.)</font> <br>
              <br>
              <font size="2" face="sans-serif">Don't get me wrong, I
                think they are a great company, but I wanted to find out
                if  can get the same (or better) oil from a place that
                is a little easier to deal with.  Ideally, I would love
                to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a
                'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds
                me to change the oil.</font> <br>
              <br>
              <font size="2" face="sans-serif">OR, is their an oil that
                doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change?</font> <br>
              <br>
              <font size="2" face="sans-serif">Again, overall, I am not
                looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is easier to
                get and or better.</font> <br>
              <br>
              <font size="2" face="sans-serif">Thanks!</font> <br>
              <br>
              <font size="2" face="sans-serif">Moose</font> <br>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
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From: Jack Brooks <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 18:47:02 +0000

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Moose,

Uh-Oh, I've been using Mobil 1 full synthetic automotive oil in my typicall=
y lightly used 5HP compressor for about 20 years, changing it very irregula=
rly.  I did run the compressor with the tank valve wide open for a few hour=
s with mineral oil for break-in first, before draining and switching to the=
 synthetic (a typical automotive practice).  I'm more concerned about the t=
ank rusting through than I am the compressor's life.

Sludge buildup is a surprise to me.  Is it possible your sludge issue is no=
t related to the type of oil, but perhaps a condensation issue?

Jack

From: Shop-talk <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Moose
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2024 6:52 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil

I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got i=
t (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free, rig=
ht away.)

Anyway.  I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but when=
 I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge.

I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever.  It was a p=
ain to clean it out.
In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand tha=
t.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil.  No alternatives or specs

The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fill =
out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then pa=
y the invoice and wait for them to ship it.)

Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to find =
out if  can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little easi=
er to deal with.  Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on Amazon a=
nd set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds me to c=
hange the oil.

Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is easier=
 to get and or better.

Thanks!

Moose

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,serif;color:#002060">Moose,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,serif;color:#002060"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,serif;color:#002060">Uh-Oh, I&#8217;ve been using Mobil=
 1 full synthetic automotive oil in my typically lightly used 5HP compresso=
r for about 20 years, changing it very irregularly.&nbsp;
 I did run the compressor with the tank valve wide open for a few hours wit=
h mineral oil for break-in first, before draining and switching to the synt=
hetic (a typical automotive practice).&nbsp; I&#8217;m more concerned about=
 the tank rusting through than I am the compressor&#8217;s
 life.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,serif;color:#002060"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,serif;color:#002060">Sludge buildup is a surprise to me=
. &nbsp;Is it possible your sludge issue is not related to the type of oil,=
 but perhaps a condensation issue?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,serif;color:#002060"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,serif;color:#002060">Jack<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,serif;color:#002060"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Shop-talk &lt;[email-masked]=
eam.net&gt; <b>
On Behalf Of </b>Moose<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 5, 2024 6:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> [email-masked]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif">I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been =
flawless since I got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they =
replaced it, free, right away.)</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">A=
nyway. &nbsp;I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but =
when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">I=
 use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever. &nbsp;It was=
 a pain to clean it out.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">I=
n the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand that=
.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil. &nbsp;No alternatives or s=
pecs</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">T=
he problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fill o=
ut a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then pay=
 the invoice and wait for them to ship it.)</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">D=
on't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to find o=
ut if &nbsp;can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little =
easier to deal with. &nbsp;Ideally, I would love to find
 the correct oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 =
months so it reminds me to change the oil.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">O=
R, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change?</span=
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">A=
gain, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is easier =
to get and or better.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">T=
hanks!</span> <br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">M=
oose</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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From: Moose <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 15:31:42 -0500 01/06/2024 03:31:42 PM, Serialize complete at 01/06/2024 03:31:42 PM

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From: Donald H Locker <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2024 23:37:52 +0000

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From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 17:15:58 -0700

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> On Jan 6, 2024, at 09:00, old dirtbeard <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> HI Moose,
>=20
> Surprised to hear that there was sludge in the oil when you drained it; I h=
ave not experienced that when changing my oil.
>=20
> I also thank you for posting this message as it reminded me that I have no=
t changed the oil in my compressor for a long time and need to look for oil.=
=20
>=20
> I saw this Quincy article on compressor oil options, but it does sound lik=
e compressor oil mainly needs to be non-detergent to eliminate carbon build-=
up (I never could understand why automotive engine oil would create carbon i=
n a compressor which I have to believe runs at a much lower temperature than=
 a compressor, but that is their statement), but also:

Detergent oil keeps debris is suspension so it can be removed by the filter.=
 If you don=E2=80=99t have a filter (and compressors don=E2=80=99t), you wan=
t a non detergent oil, so the debris can settle into the crank.=20

I strongly suspect moose=E2=80=99s sludge is a by product of condensation an=
d short run time that doesn=E2=80=99t get the oil hot enough to drive it out=
.=20

Frankly, compressors are low load, and modern oils so good, any compressor o=
il is good enough. If the manufacturer makes it hard to buy from them, I tak=
e that as a sign they don=E2=80=99t want my money, and spend it elsewhere.  I=
t=E2=80=99s the third decade of the 21st century, if they don=E2=80=99t have=
 a way to buy with a credit card, well, they clearly aren=E2=80=99t interest=
ed in selling anything.=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 6, 2024, at 09:=
00, old dirtbeard &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></d=
iv><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">HI Moose,</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"">Surprised to hear&nbsp;that there was sludge in the oil w=
hen you drained it; I have not experienced that when changing my oil.</div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"">I also thank you for posting this message as it reminded me tha=
t I have not changed the oil in my compressor for a long time and need to lo=
ok for oil.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><br></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"">I saw this Quincy article on compressor=
 oil options, but it does sound like compressor oil mainly needs to be non-d=
etergent to eliminate carbon build-up (I never could understand why automoti=
ve engine oil would create carbon in a compressor which&nbsp;I have to belie=
ve&nbsp;runs at a much lower&nbsp;temperature than a compressor, but that is=
 their statement), but also:</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>De=
tergent oil keeps debris is suspension so it can be removed by the filter. I=
f you don=E2=80=99t have a filter (and compressors don=E2=80=99t), you want a=
 non detergent oil, so the debris can settle into the crank.&nbsp;<div><br><=
/div><div>I strongly suspect moose=E2=80=99s sludge is a by product of conde=
nsation and short run time that doesn=E2=80=99t get the oil hot enough to dr=
ive it out.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Frankly, compressors are low load=
, and modern oils so good, any compressor oil is good enough. If the manufac=
turer makes it hard to buy from them, I take that as a sign they don=E2=80=99=
t want my money, and spend it elsewhere. &nbsp;It=E2=80=99s the third decade=
 of the 21st century, if they don=E2=80=99t have a way to buy with a credit c=
ard, well, they clearly aren=E2=80=99t interested in selling anything.&nbsp;=
<br><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></body></html>=

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---

From: Dwade Reinsch <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 04:03:24 +0000 (UTC)

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 This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for gra=
nddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front se=
at.=C2=A0 Had the radio and inside lights on.=C2=A0 When she finished and c=
ame out, car would not start.=C2=A0 Completely dead.=C2=A0 Electric seat wo=
uld not come back to driving position, etc.
Here's the question:=C2=A0 In the old days a weak battery would give notice=
 by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.=C2=A0 This is the car I drive re=
gularly and it gave NO warning.=C2=A0 Luckily, I could call son-in-law and =
he came to help.=C2=A0 Would not start with good set of booster cables.=C2=
=A0 Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting=
 to start.=C2=A0 So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull batt=
ery, get a replacement, and move the van home.
Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before bein=
g stranded?=C2=A0 (Battery is about 4 years old.)
Thanks,Dwade
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydpba5e1d2eyahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px=
;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">This afternoon I was sitting=
 in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theate=
r activity and I went to sleep in the front seat.&nbsp; Had the radio and i=
nside lights on.&nbsp; When she finished and came out, car would not start.=
&nbsp; Completely dead.&nbsp; Electric seat would not come back to driving =
position, etc.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Here's the question:&nbsp; In the old days=
 a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.=
&nbsp; This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.&nbsp; Luck=
ily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.&nbsp; Would not start wit=
h good set of booster cables.&nbsp; Would not start with 15 minutes of char=
ging on cables before attempting to start.&nbsp; So in the morning I'll tak=
e pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van ho=
me.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false">Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a faili=
ng battery before being stranded?&nbsp; (Battery is about 4 years old.)</di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-se=
tdir=3D"false">Thanks,</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Dwade</d=
iv></div></body></html>
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---

From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 12:25:10 +0000 (UTC)

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Depends on the failure mode.=C2=A0 Most batteries loose plate area and can =
produce less current than when new and that is when the cranking slows down=
.=C2=A0 These modern cars start so quickly that one may not notice that the=
 cranking speed is slower than normal.=C2=A0 That happened to me on my Fies=
ta.=C2=A0 One day it seemed fine, the next it cranked over quite slowly and=
 the next day it wouldn't start.=C2=A0 Load testing will give ample warning=
 as the guys who changed my oil a few months before warned me my battery ca=
pacity was low.

On the other hand, it an internal link between the cells breaks loose the f=
ailure will be instantaneous and there is no way to predict those.=C2=A0 If=
 your battery won't recharge it may be because of this failure.=C2=A0=20

Dave=20

=20

    On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 12:35:42 AM CST, Dwade Reinsch <drein=
[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
  This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for gr=
anddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front s=
eat.=C2=A0 Had the radio and inside lights on.=C2=A0 When she finished and =
came out, car would not start.=C2=A0 Completely dead.=C2=A0 Electric seat w=
ould not come back to driving position, etc.
Here's the question:=C2=A0 In the old days a weak battery would give notice=
 by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.=C2=A0 This is the car I drive re=
gularly and it gave NO warning.=C2=A0 Luckily, I could call son-in-law and =
he came to help.=C2=A0 Would not start with good set of booster cables.=C2=
=A0 Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting=
 to start.=C2=A0 So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull batt=
ery, get a replacement, and move the van home.
Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before bein=
g stranded?=C2=A0 (Battery is about 4 years old.)
Thanks,Dwade_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive

[email-masked]

 =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp7d2da35dyahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Depends on the failure mode.&nbsp; Most batt=
eries loose plate area and can produce less current than when new and that =
is when the cranking slows down.&nbsp; These modern cars start so quickly t=
hat one may not notice that the cranking speed is slower than normal.&nbsp;=
 That happened to me on my Fiesta.&nbsp; One day it seemed fine, the next i=
t cranked over quite slowly and the next day it wouldn't start.&nbsp; Load =
testing will give ample warning as the guys who changed my oil a few months=
 before warned me my battery capacity was low.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" da=
ta-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">On the=
 other hand, it an internal link between the cells breaks loose the failure=
 will be instantaneous and there is no way to predict those.&nbsp; If your =
battery won't recharge it may be because of this failure.&nbsp; <br></div><=
div><br></div><div class=3D"ydp7d2da35dsignature"><div style=3D"color: blac=
k; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size=
: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; fon=
t-size-adjust: none;"><div style=3D"color: black; font-style: normal; font-=
weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12pt; line-height: normal;=
 font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size-adjust: none;"><div><=
font size=3D"4">Dave <br></font></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"><br></span></div><br></div></div></div=
></div>
        <div><br></div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp70464edcyahoo_quoted_5225014430" class=3D"ydp70=
464edcyahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 12:35:42 AM CST, Dwad=
e Reinsch &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydp70464edcyiv4925439253"><div><div style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px=
;" class=3D"ydp70464edcyiv4925439253ydpba5e1d2eyahoo-style-wrap"><div></div=
        <div dir=3D"ltr">This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Ody=
ssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went =
to sleep in the front seat.&nbsp; Had the radio and inside lights on.&nbsp;=
 When she finished and came out, car would not start.&nbsp; Completely dead=
.&nbsp; Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc.</div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Here's the questio=
n:&nbsp; In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowl=
y, etc., before failing.&nbsp; This is the car I drive regularly and it gav=
e NO warning.&nbsp; Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.&n=
bsp; Would not start with good set of booster cables.&nbsp; Would not start=
 with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.&nbsp; So=
 in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacem=
ent, and move the van home.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr">Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing ba=
ttery before being stranded?&nbsp; (Battery is about 4 years old.)</div><di=
v id=3D"ydp70464edcyiv4925439253yqtfd53440" class=3D"ydp70464edcyiv49254392=
53yqt6617431241"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>Thanks,</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Dwade</div></div></div></div><div clas=
s=3D"ydp70464edcyqt6617431241" id=3D"ydp70464edcyqtfd96555">_______________=
________________________________<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a sh=
ape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" targ=
et=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a sha=
pe=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"nofollow" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear=3D"none">Suggeste=
d annual donation&nbsp; $12.96<br clear=3D"none">Archive: <a shape=3D"rect"=
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ref=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">ht=
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cribe/Manage: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/optio=
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[email-masked]

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From: old dirtbeard <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 04:47:15 -0800

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The newer cars are highly dependent upon sensor reads for the various
computers and can/will act differently than the older analogue cars with
dying batteries. It sounds like your battery may have shorted plates,
perhaps due to sulfation or other mechanical causes, for such an abrupt
failure to occur.

I am curious, though, as to why your car would not start when jumped from a
running vehicle. If you have a voltmeter on the dash it would be
interesting to see what it shows with the key on, and then when you had the
jump going. If you do not have a dash voltmeter, an OBDII reader may be
able to show it for you.

Good luck today with the battery replacement and you might wish to compare
the voltage reading pre and post battery swaps.

best,

doug

On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 10:39=E2=80=AFPM Dwade Reinsch <[email-masked]>=
 wrote:

> This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for
> granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the fro=
nt
> seat.  Had the radio and inside lights on.  When she finished and came ou=
t,
> car would not start.  Completely dead.  Electric seat would not come back
> to driving position, etc.
>
> Here's the question:  In the old days a weak battery would give notice by
> cranking slowly, etc., before failing.  This is the car I drive regularly
> and it gave NO warning.  Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to
> help.  Would not start with good set of booster cables.  Would not start
> with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.  So in
> the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacemen=
t,
> and move the van home.
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before
> being stranded?  (Battery is about 4 years old.)
>
> Thanks,
> Dwade

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">The=
 newer cars are highly dependent upon sensor reads for the various computer=
s and can/will act differently than the older analogue cars with dying batt=
eries. It sounds like your battery may have shorted plates, perhaps due to =
sulfation or other mechanical causes, for such an abrupt failure to occur.=
=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I am curious, thou=
gh, as to why your car would not start when jumped from a running vehicle. =
If you have a voltmeter on the dash it would be interesting to see what it =
shows with the key on, and then when you had the jump going. If you do not =
have a dash voltmeter, an OBDII reader may be able to show it for you.</div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Good luck today with the batt=
ery replacement and you might wish to compare the voltage reading pre and p=
ost battery swaps.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:sma=
ll"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">best,<=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">doug</div></div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jan 9, =
2024 at 10:39=E2=80=AFPM Dwade Reinsch &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dreinsch@swbel=
l.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Ne=
ue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr">This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Ody=
ssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went =
to sleep in the front seat.=C2=A0 Had the radio and inside lights on.=C2=A0=
 When she finished and came out, car would not start.=C2=A0 Completely dead=
.=C2=A0 Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc.</div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Here&#39;s the question:=C2=A0 In=
 the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., be=
fore failing.=C2=A0 This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warnin=
g.=C2=A0 Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.=C2=A0 Would =
not start with good set of booster cables.=C2=A0 Would not start with 15 mi=
nutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.=C2=A0 So in the mor=
ning I&#39;ll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, an=
d move the van home.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Does =
anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being str=
anded?=C2=A0 (Battery is about 4 years old.)</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks,</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Dwade</div></div></div>___=
____________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

--===============8101939886307885660==--

---

From: Ronnie Day <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 07:19:05 -0600

--===============7796332239848168962==

--000000000000b609b2060e97488d
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We have a '15 Odyssey EX-L that we bought used about 4 years ago and I just
had to replace the battery in it for the second time. This time I went with
a Duracell AGM ($150, IIRC) from Sam's, The previous battery was an old
style lead acid from Wally World, bought because that was pretty much all
that was available in the small town where we were at the time it quit on
us. We live about 35 miles NW of Bryan/College Station in Central Texas and
have only just begun to get occasional sub freezing weather, The old
battery didn't give much indication that it was on the way out before it
quit, and due to the battery location it's not easy to use a load tester to
check it. As you discovered it's risky to sit and listen to the radio
without the motor running. Been there...!

As nice a vehicle as the Odyssey is, IMO it's too maintenance critical much
beyond 100K. At least Honda uses a larger 24F battery in it instead of the
smaller batteries we had in our Accords.  It draws a LOT of power. The
vehicle is basically a computer with wheels and a motor, seriously! And you
have to be careful with maintenance on that motor. If you go past the 105K
timing belt replacement recommendation, there's a very real risk of
lunching the motor due to a broken belt. The cylinder deactivation setup,
designed and included primarily to get that V-6 through the
required emissions period from new, is known to probably cause excessive
oil consumption on engines much past the 105K unless it's deactivated.
Honda dealers get around $2500 to do the timing belt service, and then get
another $500 to swap in new spark plugs! I also feel the vehicle is
relatively hard on tires, even though I religiously have the tires
rotated every 5K and keep a close eye on the air pressure.

We bought the Odyssey instead of a CR-V for a couple reasons, but we
haven't really needed the extra seats as often as we did when our grandkids
were younger. Next summer we're planning to buy a used Civic (manual trans)
or a Mazda 3 (manual or A/T) for use when it's just the two of us. I don't
like CVTs, Mazda doesn't use them at all. Either car gets far better
mileage than the low/mid 20s we get with the Odyssey, and this will extend
the useful life of the Odyssey considerably.

This info may not help other than to let you know your experience isn't
unusual.

RD

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 12:54=E2=80=AFAM Dwade Reinsch <[email-masked]=

nt
t,
t,
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

--000000000000b609b2060e97488d
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">We have a &#39;15 Odyssey EX-L that=C2=A0we bought used ab=
out 4 years ago and I just had to replace the battery in it for the second =
time. This time I went with a Duracell AGM ($150, IIRC) from Sam&#39;s, The=
 previous battery was an old style lead acid from Wally World, bought becau=
se that was pretty much all that was available in the small=C2=A0town where=
 we were at the time it=C2=A0quit on us. We live about 35 miles NW of Bryan=
/College Station in Central Texas and have only just begun to get occasiona=
l=C2=A0sub freezing=C2=A0weather, The old battery didn&#39;t give much indi=
cation that it was on the way out before it quit, and due to the battery lo=
cation it&#39;s not easy to use a load tester to check it. As you discovere=
d it&#39;s risky to sit and listen to the radio without the motor running. =
Been there...!<div><br></div><div>As nice a vehicle as the Odyssey is, IMO =
it&#39;s too maintenance=C2=A0critical much beyond 100K. At least Honda use=
s a larger 24F battery in it instead of the smaller batteries we had in our=
 Accords.=C2=A0 It draws a LOT of power. The vehicle is basically a compute=
r with wheels and a motor, seriously! And you have to be careful with maint=
enance on that motor. If you go past the 105K timing belt replacement recom=
mendation, there&#39;s a very real risk of lunching=C2=A0the motor due to a=
 broken belt. The cylinder deactivation setup, designed and included primar=
ily to get that V-6 through=C2=A0the required=C2=A0emissions=C2=A0period fr=
om new, is known to probably cause excessive oil consumption on engines muc=
h past the 105K unless it&#39;s deactivated. Honda dealers get around $2500=
 to do the timing belt service, and then get another $500 to swap in new sp=
ark plugs! I also feel the vehicle=C2=A0is relatively hard on tires, even t=
hough I religiously have the tires rotated=C2=A0every 5K and keep a close e=
ye on the air pressure.</div><div><br></div><div>We bought the Odyssey inst=
ead of a=C2=A0CR-V for a=C2=A0couple reasons, but we haven&#39;t really nee=
ded=C2=A0the=C2=A0extra seats as often as we did=C2=A0when our grandkids we=
re younger. Next summer we&#39;re planning=C2=A0to buy a used Civic (manual=
 trans) or a Mazda 3 (manual or A/T) for use when it&#39;s=C2=A0just the tw=
o of us. I don&#39;t like CVTs, Mazda doesn&#39;t use them at all. Either c=
ar gets far better mileage than the low/mid 20s we get with the Odyssey, an=
d this will extend the useful life of the Odyssey considerably.</div><div><=
br></div><div>This info may not help other=C2=A0than to let you know your e=
xperience=C2=A0isn&#39;t unusual.=C2=A0<br><br>RD</div><div><br></div><div>=
<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gm=
ail_attr">On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 12:54=E2=80=AFAM Dwade Reinsch &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font=
-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13p=
x"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr">This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Ody=
ssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went =
to sleep in the front seat.=C2=A0 Had the radio and inside lights on.=C2=A0=
 When she finished and came out, car would not start.=C2=A0 Completely dead=
.=C2=A0 Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc.</div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Here&#39;s the question:=C2=A0 In=
 the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., be=
fore failing.=C2=A0 This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warnin=
g.=C2=A0 Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.=C2=A0 Would =
not start with good set of booster cables.=C2=A0 Would not start with 15 mi=
nutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.=C2=A0 So in the mor=
ning I&#39;ll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, an=
d move the van home.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Does =
anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being str=
anded?=C2=A0 (Battery is about 4 years old.)</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks,</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Dwade</div></div></div>___=
____________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox=
.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 07:37:38 -0600

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Dwade, only times I=E2=80=99ve had similar problems was when the temperature=
 dropped to near freezing for the first time going into winter. I=E2=80=99ve=
 only had it happen when the car has been sitting cold for the night. Withou=
t remembering to take the vehicle to get the battery checked when cold weath=
er is coming, it=E2=80=99s just hit & miss.=20

One other thought though. My 2017 Camry draws a lot of power when the key is=
 on but the engine off. There is even a warning in the manual to have the en=
gine running while programming the car from the LCD display. I disregarded t=
hat warning for a 5 minute programming & the car barely started. Battery is g=
ood & I=E2=80=99ve had no problem since. That was over a year ago.=20

Pat Horne=20
We support Habitat for Humanity

On Jan 10, 2024, at 12:55=E2=80=AFAM, Dwade Reinsch <[email-masked]> wr=
ote:

=EF=BB=BF
This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for grand=
daughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat.=
  Had the radio and inside lights on.  When she finished and came out, car w=
ould not start.  Completely dead.  Electric seat would not come back to driv=
ing position, etc.

Here's the question:  In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cr=
anking slowly, etc., before failing.  This is the car I drive regularly and i=
t gave NO warning.  Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.  W=
ould not start with good set of booster cables.  Would not start with 15 min=
utes of charging on cables before attempting to start.  So in the morning I'=
ll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the v=
an home.

Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being=
 stranded?  (Battery is about 4 years old.)

Thanks,
Dwade

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve

[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail-F44E242B-0592-42CC-8BF2-2CB7AF7DED00
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Dwade, only times I=E2=80=99ve had similar p=
roblems was when the temperature dropped to near freezing for the first time=
 going into winter. I=E2=80=99ve only had it happen when the car has been si=
tting cold for the night. Without remembering to take the vehicle to get the=
 battery checked when cold weather is coming, it=E2=80=99s just hit &amp; mi=
ss.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>One other thought though. My 2017 Camry draws a=
 lot of power when the key is on but the engine off. There is even a warning=
 in the manual to have the engine running while programming the car from the=
 LCD display. I disregarded that warning for a 5 minute programming &amp; th=
e car barely started. Battery is good &amp; I=E2=80=99ve had no problem sinc=
e. That was over a year ago.&nbsp;<br><div><br></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr">P=
at Horne&nbsp;<div>We support Habitat for Humanity</div><div><br></div></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jan 10, 2024, at 12:55=E2=80=AFAM, Dwade Reinsch &l=
t;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div=
 class=3D"ydpba5e1d2eyahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, H=
elvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">This afternoon I was sitting i=
n the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater a=
ctivity and I went to sleep in the front seat.&nbsp; Had the radio and insid=
e lights on.&nbsp; When she finished and came out, car would not start.&nbsp=
; Completely dead.&nbsp; Electric seat would not come back to driving positi=
on, etc.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr" data-setdir=3D"false">Here's the question:&nbsp; In the old days a weak b=
attery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.&nbsp; Thi=
s is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.&nbsp; Luckily, I coul=
d call son-in-law and he came to help.&nbsp; Would not start with good set o=
f booster cables.&nbsp; Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cable=
s before attempting to start.&nbsp; So in the morning I'll take pickup and t=
ools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home.</div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"f=
alse">Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before=
 being stranded?&nbsp; (Battery is about 4 years old.)</div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Than=
ks,</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Dwade</div></div><span>_____=
__________________________________________</span><br><span></span><br><span>=
[email-masked]</span><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.=
html</span><br><span>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.96</span><br><span>=
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve</span><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.ne=
t/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</span><br><span></span><br=
></div></div></div></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 08:46:50 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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--------------pC5DM2EFVK8RjqbBX9NiMuZP
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I have 4 cars and a truck, two old tractors, a quad, a Gator and a 
riding lawnmower; I spend quite a bit of time dealing with batteries and 
electrical systems. Modern batteries, say, those built in the last 20 
years or so, aren't generally built to last. Most of them are made by 
only a couple of companies, Johnson Controls being the largest, and most 
are now constructed in Mexico (I use a shop owned by a Hispanic man to 
rebuild my Britcar batteries and starters, and he told me Mexican 
batteries are 'crap;' he used to recommend Optima, but they were bought 
by JC (I think) and he quit recommending them). My '08 Mustang GT had 
two batteries die, with no warning, at almost exactly 3 years; both were 
'Motorcraft' brand, but if you look close you could see 'Johnson 
Controls.' Besides failing with no warning, which I attribute to 
internal shorting as someone suggested, I have lots of issues with 
leaking, causing the terminals to corrode and a mess in your engine 
compartment. I think the poor quality is due to thinner lead plates--a 
rule-of-thumb I use is the heavier the battery the better the 
battery--and cases are flimsier and they just don't bother to get good 
seals around the terminals. I shudder to think of what the Mexican 
battery factories look like.

The one battery brand that makes consistently good batteries is Deka, 
built by East Penn manufacturing in Pennsylvania (NFI). They source some 
of the common brands, like Duracell I think, and they seem to last. But, 
be careful, Napa, for instance, claims to get theirs from East Penn, but 
I bought one for my '19 Mustang the other day--yep, the OEM 'Motorcraft' 
leaked at 4 years, and I had to pull the whole box to clean it up--and 
the Napa had a 'Made in Korea' sticker on it; I'm not sure what to think 
(there is a Deka dealer on the far side of town; next time I make the 
drive). For the non-autos, I bought deep-cycle and starting 
batteries--both SLA--off Amazon with the brand 'Weizen;' they were among 
the cheapest but both have performed well and held up. I bought an 'X2 
Power' AGM for one of the Healeys and it's been nails for over 6 years.

Some of my vehicles have to sit for long periods; if so, I put them on a 
'smart' charger (I like BatteryMinder, I've heard good things about 
BatteryTender). These will not only keep your battery topped-up without 
overcharging, but claim to perform a 'desulfation' cycle periodically, 
which I believe involves pulsing the battery with a higher voltage (I 
got one specifically for AGMs for the Healey battery; at $300+ I want it 
to last and not fail in the middle of nowhere).

To answer OPs question, most dealers and shops these days use a battery 
tester in lieu of a load tester; they give a lot more info. I bought an 
even cheaper version of this one, but this one looks to have good 
quality clamps:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Z67MMGC/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A3EMYY4GBP2W2D&psc=1

Bob

On 1/10/2024 5:19 AM, Ronnie Day wrote:
> We have a '15 Odyssey EX-L that we bought used about 4 years ago and I 
> just had to replace the battery in it for the second time. This time I 
> went with a Duracell AGM ($150, IIRC) from Sam's, The previous battery 
> was an old style lead acid from Wally World, bought because that was 
> pretty much all that was available in the small town where we were at 
> the time it quit on us. We live about 35 miles NW of Bryan/College 
> Station in Central Texas and have only just begun to get 
> occasional sub freezing weather, The old battery didn't give much 
> indication that it was on the way out before it quit, and due to the 
> battery location it's not easy to use a load tester to check it. As 
> you discovered it's risky to sit and listen to the radio without the 
> motor running. Been there...!
>
> As nice a vehicle as the Odyssey is, IMO it's too maintenance critical 
> much beyond 100K. At least Honda uses a larger 24F battery in it 
> instead of the smaller batteries we had in our Accords.  It draws a 
> LOT of power. The vehicle is basically a computer with wheels and a 
> motor, seriously! And you have to be careful with maintenance on that 
> motor. If you go past the 105K timing belt replacement recommendation, 
> there's a very real risk of lunching the motor due to a broken belt. 
> The cylinder deactivation setup, designed and included primarily to 
> get that V-6 through the required emissions period from new, is known 
> to probably cause excessive oil consumption on engines much past the 
> 105K unless it's deactivated. Honda dealers get around $2500 to do the 
> timing belt service, and then get another $500 to swap in new spark 
> plugs! I also feel the vehicle is relatively hard on tires, even 
> though I religiously have the tires rotated every 5K and keep a close 
> eye on the air pressure.
>
> haven't really needed the extra seats as often as we did when our 
> grandkids were younger. Next summer we're planning to buy a used Civic 
> (manual trans) or a Mazda 3 (manual or A/T) for use when it's just the 
> two of us. I don't like CVTs, Mazda doesn't use them at all. Either 
> car gets far better mileage than the low/mid 20s we get with the 
> Odyssey, and this will extend the useful life of the Odyssey considerably.
>
> This info may not help other than to let you know your 
> experience isn't unusual.
>
> RD
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 12:54 AM Dwade Reinsch <[email-masked]> 
> wrote:
>
>     This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting
>     for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep
>     in the front seat. Had the radio and inside lights on.  When she
>     finished and came out, car would not start.  Completely dead.
>     Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc.
>
>     Here's the question:  In the old days a weak battery would give
>     notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.  This is the car
>     I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.  Luckily, I could call
>     son-in-law and he came to help.  Would not start with good set of
>     booster cables.  Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on
>     cables before attempting to start.  So in the morning I'll take
>     pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the
>     van home.
>
>     Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery
>     before being stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.)
>
>     Thanks,
>     Dwade
>
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    I have 4 cars and a truck, two old tractors, a quad, a Gator and a
    riding lawnmower; I spend quite a bit of time dealing with batteries
    and electrical systems. Modern batteries, say, those built in the
    last 20 years or so, aren't generally built to last. Most of them
    are made by only a couple of companies, Johnson Controls being the
    largest, and most are now constructed in Mexico (I use a shop owned
    by a Hispanic man to rebuild my Britcar batteries and starters, and
    he told me Mexican batteries are 'crap;' he used to recommend
    Optima, but they were bought by JC (I think) and he quit
    recommending them). My '08 Mustang GT had two batteries die, with no
    warning, at almost exactly 3 years; both were 'Motorcraft' brand,
    but if you look close you could see 'Johnson Controls.' Besides
    failing with no warning, which I attribute to internal shorting as
    someone suggested, I have lots of issues with leaking, causing the
    terminals to corrode and a mess in your engine compartment. I think
    the poor quality is due to thinner lead plates--a rule-of-thumb I
    use is the heavier the battery the better the battery--and cases are
    flimsier and they just don't bother to get good seals around the
    terminals. I shudder to think of what the Mexican battery factories
    look like.<br>
    <br>
    The one battery brand that makes consistently good batteries is
    Deka, built by East Penn manufacturing in Pennsylvania (NFI). They
    source some of the common brands, like Duracell I think, and they
    seem to last. But, be careful, Napa, for instance, claims to get
    theirs from East Penn, but I bought one for my '19 Mustang the other
    day--yep, the OEM 'Motorcraft' leaked at 4 years, and I had to pull
    the whole box to clean it up--and the Napa had a 'Made in Korea'
    sticker on it; I'm not sure what to think (there is a Deka dealer on
    the far side of town; next time I make the drive). For the
    non-autos, I bought deep-cycle and starting batteries--both SLA--off
    Amazon with the brand 'Weizen;' they were among the cheapest but
    both have performed well and held up. I bought an 'X2 Power' AGM for
    one of the Healeys and it's been nails for over 6 years.<br>
    <br>
    Some of my vehicles have to sit for long periods; if so, I put them
    on a 'smart' charger (I like BatteryMinder, I've heard good things
    about BatteryTender). These will not only keep your battery
    topped-up without overcharging, but claim to perform a 'desulfation'
    cycle periodically, which I believe involves pulsing the battery
    with a higher voltage (I got one specifically for AGMs for the
    Healey battery; at $300+ I want it to last and not fail in the
    middle of nowhere).<br>
    <br>
    To answer OPs question, most dealers and shops these days use a
    battery tester in lieu of a load tester; they give a lot more info.
    I bought an even cheaper version of this one, but this one looks to
    have good quality clamps:<br>
    <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Z67MMGC/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A3EMYY4GBP2W2D&amp;psc=1">https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Z67MMGC/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A3EMYY4GBP2W2D&amp;psc=1</a><br>
    <br>
    Bob<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/10/2024 5:19 AM, Ronnie Day wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMHhs6fLVy=[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">We have a '15 Odyssey EX-L that we bought used
        about 4 years ago and I just had to replace the battery in it
        for the second time. This time I went with a Duracell AGM ($150,
        IIRC) from Sam's, The previous battery was an old style lead
        acid from Wally World, bought because that was pretty much all
        that was available in the small town where we were at the time
        it quit on us. We live about 35 miles NW of Bryan/College
        Station in Central Texas and have only just begun to get
        occasional sub freezing weather, The old battery didn't give
        much indication that it was on the way out before it quit, and
        due to the battery location it's not easy to use a load tester
        to check it. As you discovered it's risky to sit and listen to
        the radio without the motor running. Been there...!
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>As nice a vehicle as the Odyssey is, IMO it's too
          maintenance critical much beyond 100K. At least Honda uses a
          larger 24F battery in it instead of the smaller batteries we
          had in our Accords.  It draws a LOT of power. The vehicle is
          basically a computer with wheels and a motor, seriously! And
          you have to be careful with maintenance on that motor. If you
          go past the 105K timing belt replacement recommendation,
          there's a very real risk of lunching the motor due to a broken
          belt. The cylinder deactivation setup, designed and included
          primarily to get that V-6 through the
          required emissions period from new, is known to probably cause
          excessive oil consumption on engines much past the 105K unless
          it's deactivated. Honda dealers get around $2500 to do the
          timing belt service, and then get another $500 to swap in new
          spark plugs! I also feel the vehicle is relatively hard on
          tires, even though I religiously have the tires rotated every
          5K and keep a close eye on the air pressure.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>We bought the Odyssey instead of a CR-V for a couple
          reasons, but we haven't really needed the extra seats as often
          as we did when our grandkids were younger. Next summer we're
          planning to buy a used Civic (manual trans) or a Mazda 3
          (manual or A/T) for use when it's just the two of us. I don't
          like CVTs, Mazda doesn't use them at all. Either car gets far
          better mileage than the low/mid 20s we get with the Odyssey,
          and this will extend the useful life of the Odyssey
          considerably.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>This info may not help other than to let you know your
          experience isn't unusual. <br>
          <br>
          RD</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at
          12:54 AM Dwade Reinsch &lt;<a
            href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true"
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div>
            <div
style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
              <div dir="ltr">This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016
                Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a
                theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat. 
                Had the radio and inside lights on.  When she finished
                and came out, car would not start.  Completely dead. 
                Electric seat would not come back to driving position,
                etc.</div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">Here's the question:  In the old days a
                weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc.,
                before failing.  This is the car I drive regularly and
                it gave NO warning.  Luckily, I could call son-in-law
                and he came to help.  Would not start with good set of
                booster cables.  Would not start with 15 minutes of
                charging on cables before attempting to start.  So in
                the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery,
                get a replacement, and move the van home.</div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">Does anyone have a suggestion for
                identifying a failing battery before being stranded? 
                (Battery is about 4 years old.)</div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">Thanks,</div>
              <div dir="ltr">Dwade</div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:50:07 -0500 01/10/2024 11:50:23 AM, Serialize complete at 01/10/2024 11:50:23 AM

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From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:17:13 -0600

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> On Jan 10, 2024, at 00:48, Dwade Reinsch <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
nddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front sea=
t.  Had the radio and inside lights on.  When she finished and came out, car=
 would not start.  Completely dead.  Electric seat would not come back to dr=
iving position, etc.
>=20
> Here's the question:  In the old days a weak battery would give notice by c=
ranking slowly, etc., before failing.  This is the car I drive regularly and=
 it gave NO warning.  Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help. =
 Would not start with good set of booster cables.  Would not start with 15 m=
inutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.  So in the morning I=
'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the v=
an home.
>=20
> Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before bei=
ng stranded?  (Battery is about 4 years old.)

If used properly, the conductance testers work well.  Not cheap, but every a=
uto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is accessible.  Man=
y cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, have state of charge and=
 battery performance information tracked by the computer.  (OnStar sent me e=
mail telling me the battery is low when I left my car on to listen to the ba=
llgame at a campsite. I also get a monthly email, which told me to replace t=
he battery for a couple months before I actually had it replaced.)

Modern cars have much higher loads at start time, and lots of them require a=
 reasonably good voltage to turn the computer on.  Without that, the car won=
=E2=80=99t do anything (the computer controls the starter solenoid on most c=
ars).  The various computers also control all the other parts, which is why t=
he seat couldn=E2=80=99t move.=20

This fall, I drove my wife=E2=80=99s fusion to the garage to do the brakes. I=
 turned off and on a couple times to get it spotted in the right spot. The t=
hird time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier, it fire=
d on instantly, with no slow cranking.  Since I was in the garage, I had a b=
attery charger handy. 10.2 volts or something like that. Putting the charger=
 on lowest setting let it start.  Plenty of joules in the battery, just not e=
nough voltage to turn the ecm on. (I replaced the battery before pulling it o=
ut of the garage, it was 4 or 5 years old.)

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></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 10, 2024, at 00=
:48, Dwade Reinsch &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></=
div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div class=3D"ydpba5=
e1d2eyahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial=
, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">This afternoon I was sitting i=
n the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater a=
ctivity and I went to sleep in the front seat.&nbsp; Had the radio and insid=
e lights on.&nbsp; When she finished and came out, car would not start.&nbsp=
; Completely dead.&nbsp; Electric seat would not come back to driving positi=
on, etc.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr" data-setdir=3D"false">Here's the question:&nbsp; In the old days a weak b=
attery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.&nbsp; Thi=
s is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.&nbsp; Luckily, I coul=
d call son-in-law and he came to help.&nbsp; Would not start with good set o=
f booster cables.&nbsp; Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cable=
s before attempting to start.&nbsp; So in the morning I'll take pickup and t=
ools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home.</div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"f=
alse">Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before=
 being stranded?&nbsp; (Battery is about 4 years old.)</div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><di=
v>If used properly, the conductance testers work well. &nbsp;Not cheap, but e=
very auto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is accessible=
. &nbsp;Many cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, have state of=
 charge and battery performance information tracked by the computer. &nbsp;(=
OnStar sent me email telling me the battery is low when I left my car on to l=
isten to the ballgame at a campsite. I also get a monthly email, which told m=
e to replace the battery for a couple months before I actually had it replac=
ed.)</div><div><br></div><div>Modern cars have much higher loads at start ti=
me, and lots of them require a reasonably good voltage to turn the computer o=
n. &nbsp;Without that, the car won=E2=80=99t do anything (the computer contr=
ols the starter solenoid on most cars). &nbsp;The various computers also con=
trol all the other parts, which is why the seat couldn=E2=80=99t move.&nbsp;=
</div><div><br></div><div>This fall, I drove my wife=E2=80=99s fusion to the=
 garage to do the brakes. I turned off and on a couple times to get it spott=
ed in the right spot. The third time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 2=
0 seconds earlier, it fired on instantly, with no slow cranking. &nbsp;Since=
 I was in the garage, I had a battery charger handy. 10.2 volts or something=
 like that. Putting the charger on lowest setting let it start. &nbsp;Plenty=
 of joules in the battery, just not enough voltage to turn the ecm on. (I re=
placed the battery before pulling it out of the garage, it was 4 or 5 years o=
ld.)</div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div></blockquote>=
</body></html>=

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From: Jim Stone <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 16:10:50 -0500

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While not a direct answer to your question, I do want to share two =
observations about Hondas and batteries. First, while my five Hondas =
have all been mechanically bulletproof, I can=E2=80=99t say the same =
thing for their recent OEM batteries.  My 2017 Ridgeline went though 3 =
Honda batteries in its first three years.  Then, shortly after the =
warranty expired, the dealer told me the third was going bad and should =
be replaced - this time at my expense.  I replaced it with an Interstate =
battery that has now considerably outlasted the 3 Honda ones.  I don=E2=80=
=99t know who has been making Honda=E2=80=99s batteries, but the three I =
got between 2017 and 2020 all sucked.

Second, I think your 2016 Odyssey is the same platform as my 2017 =
Ridgeline (Gen 2 for Ridgelines) and uses a Start button rather than a =
key.  If so, I have noticed that the ACC =E2=80=98position=E2=80=99 =
(hitting the Start button twice without putting your foot on the brake) =
turns on a lot more than just the radio, including the HVAC system.  But =
one day I absent mindedly shut off the car with the transmission in =
neutral; the radio stayed on but everything else shut off.  I now do =
that if I want to listen to the radio in the car, leaving it in neutral =
and setting the parking brake.  It seems to work fine and presumably =
won=E2=80=99t tax the battery like the ACC position would.

Jim

> On Jan 9, 2024, at 11:03 PM, Dwade Reinsch <[email-masked]> =
wrote:
>=20
> This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for =
granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the =
front seat.  Had the radio and inside lights on.  When she finished and =
came out, car would not start.  Completely dead.  Electric seat would =
not come back to driving position, etc.
>=20
> Here's the question:  In the old days a weak battery would give notice =
by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.  This is the car I drive =
regularly and it gave NO warning.  Luckily, I could call son-in-law and =
he came to help.  Would not start with good set of booster cables.  =
Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting =
to start.  So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull =
battery, get a replacement, and move the van home.
>=20
> Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before =
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk =
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail=_5DB466E4-081E-472D-9249-8C4E1B182494
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">While not a =
direct answer to your question, I do want to share two observations =
about Hondas and batteries. First, while my five Hondas have all been =
mechanically bulletproof, I can=E2=80=99t say the same thing for their =
recent OEM batteries. &nbsp;My 2017 Ridgeline went though 3 Honda =
batteries in its first three years. &nbsp;Then, shortly after the =
warranty expired, the dealer told me the third was going bad and should =
be replaced - this time at my expense. &nbsp;I replaced it with an =
Interstate battery that has now considerably outlasted the 3 Honda ones. =
&nbsp;I don=E2=80=99t know who has been making Honda=E2=80=99s =
batteries, but the three I got between 2017 and 2020 all =
sucked.<div><br></div><div>Second, I think your 2016 Odyssey is the same =
platform as my 2017 Ridgeline (Gen 2 for Ridgelines) and uses a Start =
button rather than a key. &nbsp;If so, I have noticed that the ACC =
=E2=80=98position=E2=80=99 (hitting the Start button twice without =
putting your foot on the brake) turns on a lot more than just the radio, =
including the HVAC system. &nbsp;But one day I absent mindedly shut off =
the car with the transmission in neutral; the radio stayed on but =
everything else shut off. &nbsp;I now do that if I want to listen to the =
radio in the car, leaving it in neutral and setting the parking brake. =
&nbsp;It seems to work fine and presumably won=E2=80=99t tax the battery =
like the ACC position =
would.</div><div><br></div><div>Jim<br><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>On Jan 9, 2024, at 11:03 PM, Dwade Reinsch =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div><div =
class=3D"ydpba5e1d2eyahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">This afternoon I was =
sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to =
finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat.&nbsp; =
Had the radio and inside lights on.&nbsp; When she finished and came =
out, car would not start.&nbsp; Completely dead.&nbsp; Electric seat =
would not come back to driving position, etc.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false">Here's the question:&nbsp; In the old days a weak =
battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before =
failing.&nbsp; This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO =
warning.&nbsp; Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to =
help.&nbsp; Would not start with good set of booster cables.&nbsp; Would =
not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to =
start.&nbsp; So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull =
battery, get a replacement, and move the van home.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false">Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a =
failing battery before being stranded?&nbsp; (Battery is about 4 years =
old.)</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Thanks,</div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false">Dwade</div></div></div>_____________________________=
__________________<br><br>[email-masked]<br>Donate: =
&nbsp;$12.96<br>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk =
http://autox.team.net/archive<br><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]<br><b=
r></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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From: old dirtbeard <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 22:10:45 +0000

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From: Dwade Reinsch <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 04:06:41 +0000 (UTC)

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 Thanks to all who added to my knowledge base for modern cars and batteries=
.
I replaced the old battery the next morning, started right up, and continue=
s to run perfectly.=C2=A0 I guess I'll just have to have battery tested aft=
er about three years of use.
Thanks again!!
Dwade

    On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 04:10:50 PM CST, old dirtbeard <dirtb=
[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
 Hi David,=C2=A0
Yes, I do understand about the lead acid chargers. I have accumulated many =
over the last 50 years. =F0=9F=99=82
Best,
DougmobileFrom: Shop-talk <[email-masked]> on behalf of D=
avid Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM
To: Dwade Reinsch <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.=C2=A0

=EF=BB=BFThis afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting=
 for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the =
front seat.=C2=A0 Had the radio and inside lights on.=C2=A0 When she finish=
ed and came out, car would not start.=C2=A0 Completely dead.=C2=A0 Electric=
 seat would not come back to driving position, etc.
Here's the question:=C2=A0 In the old days a weak battery would give notice=
 by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.=C2=A0 This is the car I drive re=
gularly and it gave NO warning.=C2=A0 Luckily, I could call son-in-law and =
he came to help.=C2=A0 Would not start with good set of booster cables.=C2=
=A0 Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting=
 to start.=C2=A0 So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull batt=
ery, get a replacement, and move the van home.
Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before bein=
g stranded?=C2=A0 (Battery is about 4 years old.)

If used properly, the conductance testers work well. =C2=A0Not cheap, but e=
very auto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is accessibl=
e. =C2=A0Many cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, have state =
of charge and battery performance information tracked by the computer. =C2=
=A0(OnStar sent me email telling me the battery is low when I left my car o=
n to listen to the ballgame at a campsite. I also get a monthly email, whic=
h told me to replace the battery for a couple months before I actually had =
it replaced.)
Modern cars have much higher loads at start time, and lots of them require =
a reasonably good voltage to turn the computer on. =C2=A0Without that, the =
car won=E2=80=99t do anything (the computer controls the starter solenoid o=
n most cars). =C2=A0The various computers also control all the other parts,=
 which is why the seat couldn=E2=80=99t move.=C2=A0
This fall, I drove my wife=E2=80=99s fusion to the garage to do the brakes.=
 I turned off and on a couple times to get it spotted in the right spot. Th=
e third time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier, it =
fired on instantly, with no slow cranking. =C2=A0Since I was in the garage,=
 I had a battery charger handy. 10.2 volts or something like that. Putting =
the charger on lowest setting let it start. =C2=A0Plenty of joules in the b=
attery, just not enough voltage to turn the ecm on. (I replaced the battery=
 before pulling it out of the garage, it was 4 or 5 years old.)

 =20
------=_Part_1114818_634835724.1705118801620
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp93de44cbyahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px=
;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Thanks to all who added to m=
y knowledge base for modern cars and batteries.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-=
setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I replace=
d the old battery the next morning, started right up, and continues to run =
perfectly.&nbsp; I guess I'll just have to have battery tested after about =
three years of use.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><=
div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Thanks again!!</div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Dwad=
e</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydpd230c31ayahoo_quoted_5957036331" class=3D"ydpd2=
30c31ayahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 04:10:50 PM CST, old =
dirtbeard &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydpd230c31ayiv2726512188"><div>
<div>Hi David,&nbsp;</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>Yes, I do understand about the lead acid chargers. I have accumulated =
many over the last 50 years. =F0=9F=99=82</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div id=3D"ydpd230c31ayiv2726512188ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>Doug</div>
<div>mobile</div>
</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%;" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"ydpd230c31ayiv2726512188yqt05413" class=3D"ydpd230c31ayiv2726512=
188yqt0786679445"><div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"ydpd230c31ayiv2726512188divRplyFwd=
Msg"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt;" color=3D"=
#000000"><b>From:</b> Shop-talk &lt;[email-masked]&gt; on=
 behalf of David Scheidt &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM<br clear=3D"none">
<b>To:</b> Dwade Reinsch &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Cc:</b> [email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br cle=
ar=3D"none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
<blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 10, 2024, at 00:48, Dwade Reinsch &lt;drei=
[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
<div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font=
-size:13px;" class=3D"ydpd230c31ayiv2726512188x_ydpba5e1d2eyahoo-style-wrap=
">
<div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van=
 waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep=
 in the front seat.&nbsp; Had the radio and inside lights on.&nbsp; When sh=
e finished and came out,
 car would not start.&nbsp; Completely dead.&nbsp; Electric seat would not =
come back to driving position, etc.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Here's the question:&nbsp; In the old days a weak battery =
would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.&nbsp; This is t=
he car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.&nbsp; Luckily, I could cal=
l son-in-law and he came to help.&nbsp;
 Would not start with good set of booster cables.&nbsp; Would not start wit=
h 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.&nbsp; So in =
the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement,=
 and move the van home.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing ba=
ttery before being stranded?&nbsp; (Battery is about 4 years old.)</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>If used properly, the conductance testers work well. &nbsp;Not cheap, =
but every auto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is acce=
ssible. &nbsp;Many cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, have s=
tate of charge and battery performance information
 tracked by the computer. &nbsp;(OnStar sent me email telling me the batter=
y is low when I left my car on to listen to the ballgame at a campsite. I a=
lso get a monthly email, which told me to replace the battery for a couple =
months before I actually had it replaced.)</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>Modern cars have much higher loads at start time, and lots of them req=
uire a reasonably good voltage to turn the computer on. &nbsp;Without that,=
 the car won=E2=80=99t do anything (the computer controls the starter solen=
oid on most cars). &nbsp;The various computers also
 control all the other parts, which is why the seat couldn=E2=80=99t move.&=
nbsp;</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>This fall, I drove my wife=E2=80=99s fusion to the garage to do the br=
akes. I turned off and on a couple times to get it spotted in the right spo=
t. The third time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier=
, it fired on instantly, with no slow cranking.
 &nbsp;Since I was in the garage, I had a battery charger handy. 10.2 volts=
 or something like that. Putting the charger on lowest setting let it start=
. &nbsp;Plenty of joules in the battery, just not enough voltage to turn th=
e ecm on. (I replaced the battery before pulling
 it out of the garage, it was 4 or 5 years old.)</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div></div>
</div></div></div>
            </div>
        </div></body></html>
------=_Part_1114818_634835724.1705118801620--

--===============6264781781525800442==
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[email-masked]

--===============6264781781525800442==--

---

From: Moose <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 04:54:18 -0500 01/13/2024 04:54:36 AM, Serialize complete at 01/13/2024 04:54:36 AM

This is a multipart message in MIME format.
--===============5627475479184767937==

This is a multipart message in MIME format.
--=_alternative 003669CE85258AA3_=
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

--=_alternative 003669CE85258AA3_=
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

--=_alternative 003669CE85258AA3_=--

--===============5627475479184767937==
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Content-Disposition: inline

[email-masked]

--===============5627475479184767937==--

---

From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 14:03:43 +0000 (UTC)

--===============6045521725535021013==
	boundary="----=_Part_1171981_1877657208.1705154623223"

------=_Part_1171981_1877657208.1705154623223
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ford, for one, does this.=C2=A0 They have a current sensor in the negative =
cable and the computer integrates the current in and out and computes the n=
et battery charge.=C2=A0 When using an external charger it is important to =
connect the negative to the engine block so as not to bypass the current se=
nsor so the computer can monitor the charge current and reflect the charger=
's current in the battery charge calculations.
I expect there are others that do the same.

Dave=20

=20

    On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 04:39:57 AM CST, Moose <eric@megageek.=
com> wrote: =20
=20
 One more note of stupidity on this topic.=C2=A0Modern Range Rover requires=
 their computer to change a battery!

That's right, you need to tell theircomputer there is a new battery.

I'm not sure if other makes are goingthis way, but it is one item on the lo=
ng list of reasons I'll never ownanother RR!

Moose

From: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0Dwade Reinsch <[email-masked]>
To: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0David Scheidt <[email-masked]>,old dirtb=
eard <[email-masked]>
Cc: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0"[email-masked]"<[email-masked]=
am.net>
Date: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A001/12/2024 23:12
Subject: =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0Re: [Shop-talk]Stranded by a bad car bat=
tery.
Sent by: =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0"Shop-talk"<[email-masked]=
.net>

Thanks to all who added to my knowledge basefor modern cars and batteries.

I replaced the old battery the next morning,started right up, and continues=
 to run perfectly. =C2=A0I guess I'll justhave to have battery tested after=
 about three years of use.

Thanks again!!

Dwade

On Wednesday, January 10, 2024at 04:10:50 PM CST, old dirtbeard <dirtbeard@=
gmail.com> wrote:=20

Hi David,=20

Yes, I do understand aboutthe lead acid chargers. I have accumulated many o=
ver the last 50 years.=F0=9F=99=82

Best,

Doug
mobile

From: Shop-talk <[email-masked]>on behalf of David Scheid=
t <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM
To: Dwade Reinsch <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.
=C2=A0

On Jan 10, 2024, at 00:48,Dwade Reinsch <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20
This afternoon I was sittingin the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for grand=
daughter to finish a theateractivity and I went to sleep in the front seat.=
 =C2=A0Had the radio andinside lights on. =C2=A0When she finished and came =
out, car would not start.=C2=A0Completely dead. =C2=A0Electric seat would n=
ot come back to drivingposition, etc.

Here's the question: =C2=A0Inthe old days a weak battery would give notice =
by cranking slowly, etc.,before failing. =C2=A0This is the car I drive regu=
larly and it gave NOwarning. =C2=A0Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he =
came to help. =C2=A0Wouldnot start with good set of booster cables. =C2=A0W=
ould not start with 15minutes of charging on cables before attempting to st=
art. =C2=A0So in themorning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, ge=
t a replacement,and move the van home.

Does anyone have a suggestionfor identifying a failing battery before being=
 stranded? =C2=A0(Batteryis about 4 years old.)

If used properly, the conductancetesters work well. =C2=A0Not cheap, but ev=
ery auto parts store will testfor you, assuming your battery is accessible.=
 =C2=A0Many cars, startingjust a bit later than your ofdesy, have state of =
charge and battery performanceinformation tracked by the computer. =C2=A0(O=
nStar sent me email tellingme the battery is low when I left my car on to l=
isten to the ballgame ata campsite. I also get a monthly email, which told =
me to replace the batteryfor a couple months before I actually had it repla=
ced.)

Modern cars have much higherloads at start time, and lots of them require a=
 reasonably good voltageto turn the computer on. =C2=A0Without that, the ca=
r won=E2=80=99t do anything(the computer controls the starter solenoid on m=
ost cars). =C2=A0The variouscomputers also control all the other parts, whi=
ch is why the seat couldn=E2=80=99tmove.=20

This fall, I drove my wife=E2=80=99sfusion to the garage to do the brakes. =
I turned off and on a couple timesto get it spotted in the right spot. The =
third time I tried to start it,battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier, it fir=
ed on instantly, with no slowcranking. =C2=A0Since I was in the garage, I h=
ad a battery charger handy.10.2 volts or something like that. Putting the c=
harger on lowest settinglet it start. =C2=A0Plenty of joules in the battery=
, just not enough voltageto turn the ecm on. (I replaced the battery before=
 pulling it out of thegarage, it was 4 or 5 years old.)
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talkhttp://autox.team.net/archi=
ve

gageek.com

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

 =20
------=_Part_1171981_1877657208.1705154623223
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydpa309f569yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Ford, for one, does this.&nbsp; They have a =
current sensor in the negative cable and the computer integrates the curren=
t in and out and computes the net battery charge.&nbsp; When using an exter=
nal charger it is important to connect the negative to the engine block so =
as not to bypass the current sensor so the computer can monitor the charge =
current and reflect the charger's current in the battery charge calculation=
s.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" d=
ata-setdir=3D"false">I expect there are others that do the same.<br></div><=
div><br></div><div class=3D"ydpa309f569signature"><div style=3D"color: blac=
k; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size=
: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; fon=
t-size-adjust: none;"><div style=3D"color: black; font-style: normal; font-=
weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12pt; line-height: normal;=
 font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size-adjust: none;"><div><=
font size=3D"4">Dave <br></font></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"><br></span></div><br></div></div></div=
        <div><br></div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydpca218da2yahoo_quoted_5892036845" class=3D"ydpca=
218da2yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 04:39:57 AM CST, Moose=
 &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydpca218da2yiv2089004506"><div><font size=
=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">One more note of stupidity on this topic.
&nbsp;Modern Range Rover requires their computer to change a battery!</font=
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">That's right, you n=
eed to tell their
computer there is a new battery.</font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">I'm not sure if oth=
er makes are going
this way, but it is one item on the long list of reasons I'll never own
another RR!</font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Moose</font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<div id=3D"ydpca218da2yiv2089004506yqtfd12900" class=3D"ydpca218da2yiv20890=
04506yqt8583726455"><br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif"=
 color=3D"#5f5f5f">From: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;</font><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">Dwade Reinsch &lt;dreinsc=
[email-masked]&gt;</font>
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif" color=3D"#5f5f5f">T=
o: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;</font><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">David Scheidt &lt;dmschei=
[email-masked]&gt;,
old dirtbeard &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</font>
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif" color=3D"#5f5f5f">C=
c: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;</font><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">"[email-masked]=
"
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</font>
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif" color=3D"#5f5f5f">D=
ate: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;</font><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">01/12/2024 23:12</font>
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif" color=3D"#5f5f5f">S=
ubject: &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp;</font><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">Re: [Shop-talk]
Stranded by a bad car battery.</font>
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif" color=3D"#5f5f5f">S=
ent by: &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp;</font><font size=3D"1" face=3D"sans-serif">"Shop-talk"
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<hr noshade=3D"">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Thanks to all who added =
to my knowledge base
for modern cars and batteries.</font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">I replaced the old batte=
ry the next morning,
started right up, and continues to run perfectly. &nbsp;I guess I'll just
have to have battery tested after about three years of use.</font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Thanks again!!</font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Dwade</font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#2f2f2f">On Wed=
nesday, January 10, 2024
at 04:10:50 PM CST, old dirtbeard &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote: </font=
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#2f2f2f">Hi Dav=
id, </font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#2f2f2f">Yes, I=
 do understand about
the lead acid chargers. I have accumulated many over the last 50 years.
=F0=9F=99=82</font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#2f2f2f">Best,<=
/font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#2f2f2f">Doug</=
font>
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#2f2f2f">mobile=
</font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<hr>
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><b>From:</b> Shop-talk=
 &lt;[email-masked]&gt;
on behalf of David Scheidt &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<b><br clear=3D"none"=
Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM<b><br clear=3D"none">
To:</b> Dwade Reinsch &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<b><br clear=3D"none">
Cc:</b> [email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<b><br cle=
ar=3D"none">
Subject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.</font><font siz=
e=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#2f2f2f">
</font>
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#2f2f2f">&nbsp;=
</font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#2f2f2f">On Jan=
 10, 2024, at 00:48,
Dwade Reinsch &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</font>
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#2f2f2f">=EF=BB=
=BF </font>
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#2f2f2f">This a=
fternoon I was sitting
in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater
activity and I went to sleep in the front seat. &nbsp;Had the radio and
inside lights on. &nbsp;When she finished and came out, car would not start=
.
&nbsp;Completely dead. &nbsp;Electric seat would not come back to driving
position, etc.</font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#2f2f2f">Here's=
 the question: &nbsp;In
the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc.,
before failing. &nbsp;This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO
warning. &nbsp;Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help. &nbsp;=
Would
not start with good set of booster cables. &nbsp;Would not start with 15
minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start. &nbsp;So in the
morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement,
and move the van home.</font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#2f2f2f">Does a=
nyone have a suggestion
for identifying a failing battery before being stranded? &nbsp;(Battery
is about 4 years old.)</font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#2f2f2f">If use=
d properly, the conductance
testers work well. &nbsp;Not cheap, but every auto parts store will test
for you, assuming your battery is accessible. &nbsp;Many cars, starting
just a bit later than your ofdesy, have state of charge and battery perform=
ance
information tracked by the computer. &nbsp;(OnStar sent me email telling
me the battery is low when I left my car on to listen to the ballgame at
a campsite. I also get a monthly email, which told me to replace the batter=
y
for a couple months before I actually had it replaced.)</font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#2f2f2f">Modern=
 cars have much higher
loads at start time, and lots of them require a reasonably good voltage
to turn the computer on. &nbsp;Without that, the car won=E2=80=99t do anyth=
ing
(the computer controls the starter solenoid on most cars). &nbsp;The variou=
s
computers also control all the other parts, which is why the seat couldn=E2=
=80=99t
move. </font>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#2f2f2f">This f=
all, I drove my wife=E2=80=99s
fusion to the garage to do the brakes. I turned off and on a couple times
to get it spotted in the right spot. The third time I tried to start it,
battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier, it fired on instantly, with no slow
cranking. &nbsp;Since I was in the garage, I had a battery charger handy.
10.2 volts or something like that. Putting the charger on lowest setting
let it start. &nbsp;Plenty of joules in the battery, just not enough voltag=
e
to turn the ecm on. (I replaced the battery before pulling it out of the
garage, it was 4 or 5 years old.)</font>
<br clear=3D"none"><tt><font size=3D"2">___________________________________=
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> 3biVSs9+ozeT6SbY+1LUMgTepeH9hc62KSmbmdUxAY+Zp3sZkNa2gGDuvGAlvT3jYuqM11IIFiUXfoVdG/PsgoBOlamRgSArWPA=
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 07:30:20 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Other makes do this as well. Modern cars have a 'battery management 
system' or similar because so much is now run on electricity--steering, 
for instance--that you have to have assured power at all times. I learnt 
of all this when I asked a simple (I thought) question on a Mustang 
forum about using a 12V source in parallel so I wouldn't lose all my 
settings--drive mode, satellite, etc.--when I needed to swap a leaker. 
F150s, for example, have a pretty elaborate process to even charge a 
battery:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A

After a lengthy, er, discussion I said 'F-it' and just swapped batteries 
like I always have; I lost my custom drive mode but was none the worse 
off for wear. But, I recommend you read your owners' manual before doing 
anything on the electrical system of a car built in the last 10 years or so.

Bob

On 1/13/2024 1:54 AM, Moose wrote:
> One more note of stupidity on this topic.  Modern Range Rover requires 
> That's right, you need to tell their computer there is a new battery.
>
> I'm not sure if other makes are going this way, but it is one item on 
> the long list of reasons I'll never own another RR!
>
> Moose
>
>
>
> From: Dwade Reinsch <[email-masked]>
> To: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>, old dirtbeard 
> <[email-masked]>
> Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
> Date: 01/12/2024 23:12
> Sent by: "Shop-talk" <[email-masked]>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Thanks to all who added to my knowledge base for modern cars and 
> batteries.
>
> I replaced the old battery the next morning, started right up, and 
> continues to run perfectly.  I guess I'll just have to have battery 
> tested after about three years of use.
>
> Thanks again!!
>
> Dwade
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 04:10:50 PM CST, old dirtbeard 
> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi David,
>
> Yes, I do understand about the lead acid chargers. I have accumulated 
> many over the last 50 years. 🙂
>
> Best,
>
> Doug
> mobile
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Shop-talk <[email-masked]> on behalf of 
> David Scheidt <[email-masked]>*
> Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM*
> To:* Dwade Reinsch <[email-masked]>*
> Cc:* [email-masked] <[email-masked]>*
> Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.
>
>
>
> granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the 
> front seat.  Had the radio and inside lights on.  When she finished 
> and came out, car would not start.  Completely dead.  Electric seat 
> would not come back to driving position, etc.
>
> Here's the question:  In the old days a weak battery would give notice 
> by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.  This is the car I drive 
> regularly and it gave NO warning.  Luckily, I could call son-in-law 
> and he came to help.  Would not start with good set of booster cables. 
>  Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before 
> attempting to start.  So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and 
> pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home.
>
> If used properly, the conductance testers work well.  Not cheap, but 
> every auto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is 
> accessible.  Many cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, 
> have state of charge and battery performance information tracked by 
> the computer.  (OnStar sent me email telling me the battery is low 
> when I left my car on to listen to the ballgame at a campsite. I also 
> get a monthly email, which told me to replace the battery for a couple 
> months before I actually had it replaced.)
>
> Modern cars have much higher loads at start time, and lots of them 
> require a reasonably good voltage to turn the computer on.  Without 
> that, the car won’t do anything (the computer controls the starter 
> solenoid on most cars).  The various computers also control all the 
> other parts, which is why the seat couldn’t move.
>
> This fall, I drove my wife’s fusion to the garage to do the brakes. I 
> turned off and on a couple times to get it spotted in the right spot. 
> The third time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 20 seconds 
> earlier, it fired on instantly, with no slow cranking.  Since I was in 
> the garage, I had a battery charger handy. 10.2 volts or something 
> like that. Putting the charger on lowest setting let it start.  Plenty 
> of joules in the battery, just not enough voltage to turn the ecm on. 
> (I replaced the battery before pulling it out of the garage, it was 4 
> or 5 years old.)
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> <http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk>http://autox.team.net/archive 
> <http://autox.team.net/archive>
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked] 
> <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]>
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<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    Other makes do this as well. Modern cars have a 'battery management
    system' or similar because so much is now run on
    electricity--steering, for instance--that you have to have assured
    power at all times. I learnt of all this when I asked a simple (I
    thought) question on a Mustang forum about using a 12V source in
    parallel so I wouldn't lose all my settings--drive mode, satellite,
    etc.--when I needed to swap a leaker. F150s, for example, have a
    pretty elaborate process to even charge a battery:<br>
    <br>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A</a><br>
    <br>
    After a lengthy, er, discussion I said 'F-it' and just swapped
    batteries like I always have; I lost my custom drive mode but was
    none the worse off for wear. But, I recommend you read your owners'
    manual before doing anything on the electrical system of a car built
    in the last 10 years or so.<br>
    <br>
    Bob<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/13/2024 1:54 AM, Moose wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <font size="2" face="sans-serif">One more note of stupidity on
        this topic.
         Modern Range Rover requires their computer to change a battery!</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="sans-serif">That's right, you need to tell
        their
        computer there is a new battery.</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="sans-serif">I'm not sure if other makes are
        going
        this way, but it is one item on the long list of reasons I'll
        never own
        another RR!</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="sans-serif">Moose</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="1" face="sans-serif" color="#5f5f5f">From:      
         </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Dwade Reinsch
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a></font>
      <br>
      <font size="1" face="sans-serif" color="#5f5f5f">To:      
         </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">David Scheidt
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a>,
        old dirtbeard <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a></font>
      <br>
      <font size="1" face="sans-serif" color="#5f5f5f">Cc:      
         </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">"[email-masked]"</a>
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a></font>
      <br>
      <font size="1" face="sans-serif" color="#5f5f5f">Date:      
         </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">01/12/2024 23:12</font>
      <br>
      <font size="1" face="sans-serif" color="#5f5f5f">Subject:    
           </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Re: [Shop-talk]
        Stranded by a bad car battery.</font>
      <br>
      <font size="1" face="sans-serif" color="#5f5f5f">Sent by:    
           </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">"Shop-talk"
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a></font>
      <br>
      <hr noshade="noshade">
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial">Thanks to all who added to my
        knowledge base
        for modern cars and batteries.</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial">I replaced the old battery the next
        morning,
        started right up, and continues to run perfectly.  I guess I'll
        just
        have to have battery tested after about three years of use.</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial">Thanks again!!</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial">Dwade</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">On Wednesday, January
        10, 2024
        at 04:10:50 PM CST, old dirtbeard <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a>
        wrote: </font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">Hi David, </font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">Yes, I do understand
        about
        the lead acid chargers. I have accumulated many over the last 50
        years.
        🙂</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">Best,</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">Doug</font>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">mobile</font>
      <br>
      <hr>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Calibri"><b>From:</b> Shop-talk
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a>
        on behalf of David Scheidt <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><b><br>
          Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM<b><br>
          To:</b> Dwade Reinsch <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><b><br>
          Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><b><br>
          Subject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.</font><font
        size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">
      </font>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f"> </font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">On Jan 10, 2024, at
        00:48,
        Dwade Reinsch <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote:<br>
      </font>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f"> </font>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">This afternoon I was
        sitting
        in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to
        finish a theater
        activity and I went to sleep in the front seat.  Had the radio
        and
        inside lights on.  When she finished and came out, car would not
        start.
         Completely dead.  Electric seat would not come back to driving
        position, etc.</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">Here's the question:
         In
        the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking
        slowly, etc.,
        before failing.  This is the car I drive regularly and it gave
        NO
        warning.  Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.
         Would
        not start with good set of booster cables.  Would not start with
        15
        minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.  So in
        the
        morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a
        replacement,
        and move the van home.</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">Does anyone have a
        suggestion
        for identifying a failing battery before being stranded?
         (Battery
        is about 4 years old.)</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">If used properly, the
        conductance
        testers work well.  Not cheap, but every auto parts store will
        test
        for you, assuming your battery is accessible.  Many cars,
        starting
        just a bit later than your ofdesy, have state of charge and
        battery performance
        information tracked by the computer.  (OnStar sent me email
        telling
        me the battery is low when I left my car on to listen to the
        ballgame at
        a campsite. I also get a monthly email, which told me to replace
        the battery
        for a couple months before I actually had it replaced.)</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">Modern cars have much
        higher
        loads at start time, and lots of them require a reasonably good
        voltage
        to turn the computer on.  Without that, the car won’t do
        anything
        (the computer controls the starter solenoid on most cars).  The
        various
        computers also control all the other parts, which is why the
        seat couldn’t
        move. </font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">This fall, I drove my
        wife’s
        fusion to the garage to do the brakes. I turned off and on a
        couple times
        to get it spotted in the right spot. The third time I tried to
        start it,
        battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier, it fired on instantly,
        with no slow
        cranking.  Since I was in the garage, I had a battery charger
        handy.
        10.2 volts or something like that. Putting the charger on lowest
        setting
        let it start.  Plenty of joules in the battery, just not enough
        voltage
        to turn the ecm on. (I replaced the battery before pulling it
        out of the
        garage, it was 4 or 5 years old.)</font>
      <br>
      <tt><font size="2">_______________________________________________<br>
          <br>
          <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
          Donate: </font></tt><a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html"
        moz-do-not-send="true"><tt><font size="2">http://www.team.net/donate.html</font></tt></a><tt><font
          size="2"><br>
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[email-masked]

--===============0914771485465532223==--

---

From: Philip Ethier <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 10:27:55 -0600

--===============5394374620063346317==

--000000000000069753060f129fe0

> keep your battery topped-up without overcharging, but claim to perform a
'desulfation' cycle periodically

Sidebar:  If you happen to have any lithium batteries in anything, do not
use a charger with a 'desulfation' cycle'.

--000000000000069753060f129fe0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace">&gt;=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">keep your=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"gmail-il" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">battery</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"=
>=C2=A0topped-up without overcharging, but claim to perform a &#39;desulfat=
ion&#39; cycle periodically</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-=
serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-=
serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Sidebar:=C2=A0 If you happen to have any lithium ba=
tteries in anything, do not use a charger with a=C2=A0</span><span style=3D=
"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">&#39;desulfation&=
#39; cycle&#39;.</span></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signatur=
e"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
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[email-masked]

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From: old dirtbeard <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 16:49:18 +0000

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Yes, that mode will damage Li-Ion batteries.

Best,

Doug
mobile
________________________________
From: Shop-talk <[email-masked]> on behalf of Philip Ethi=
er <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2024 8:27:55 AM
To: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.

> keep your battery topped-up without overcharging, but claim to perform a =

Sidebar:  If you happen to have any lithium batteries in anything, do not u=
se a charger with a 'desulfation' cycle'.

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<div dir=3D"auto">Yes, that mode will damage Li-Ion batteries.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-signature" dir=3D"auto">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"">Best,</div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D""><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"">Doug</div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"">mobile</div>
</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Shop-talk &lt;shop-ta=
[email-masked]&gt; on behalf of Philip Ethier &lt;pethier7@gmail=
.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 16, 2024 8:27:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bob Spidell &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> [email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">&gt;&nbsp;<s=
pan style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,0)">keep=
 your&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"x_gmail-il" style=3D"font-family:Arial,Hel=
vetica,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,0)">battery</span><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,0)">&nbsp;topped-up
 without overcharging, but claim to perform a 'desulfation' cycle periodica=
lly</span></div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span style=
=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</span></div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span style=
=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Sidebar:&nbsp=
; If you happen to have any lithium batteries in anything, do not use a cha=
rger with a&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Arial,=
Helvetica,sans-serif">'desulfation'
 cycle'.</span></div>
</div>
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[email-masked]

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