From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 4 15:12:47 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40C1FA03FA for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2024 15:12:47 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [34.199.103.79]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 981A4A03EF for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2024 15:08:43 -0700 (MST) To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent From: eric@megageek.com Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 17:08:34 -0500 01/04/2024 05:08:40 PM, Serialize complete at 01/04/2024 05:08:40 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] SK breaker bar Saga (the final update) Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============7725473028465266738== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0079A2A985258A9A_= Well, in Oct, my SK breaker bar broke. I couldn't find any phone numbers or anything, just a website to fill out some info. After putting in a claim for the "breaker bar repair kit", I waited almost a month, nothing. Then I posted here and others expressed their dissatisfaction with SK as well. I finally found an email and sent them one asking if they received my claim. They stated that they did not have it. I resubmitted it, waited 2 days and emailed again. Again, they said they didn't have it. Then about a day later, they sent me an email stated they DID have it, but they didn't see it because the email address (I have no idea what that meant.) But they also said that I would have to send them the broken tool in for a replacement, since the kit wasn't available. So I spend about $12 sending it in (with all the postal tracking and such.) About 2 weeks AFTER I confirmed they received it, I sent another email. Nothing. Then, I get an invoice for the shipping of the new tool to me for $8 about 4 days later. I pay it within an hour of getting it. About a week later, I get a message saying they received my payment and will be shipping out the replacement. Now, this was about mid Dec. So I hoped they would get it in the mail sooner before the holidays. Nope, they waited until the new year to ship it. Since the place is only about 4 hours away from me in PA, it only took 2 days to get it. So I now have my new SK breaker bar. Note, in all my emails to them I expressed how much I loved SK tools, and how I relied on my breaker bar and how I would have to buy a cheap one to use in the meantime if it was going to take a while to replace. In the end, I am not at all happy. American tool companies used to be worth the extra price. However, I know that if I had a cheap Home Depot Rigid one and walked into a store with it broken, I would walk out with a new one. The other thing is that I had to pay the shipping BOTH WAYS. Really? If they didn't like the photos I sent, they could have paid for the shipping one way at least! I mean, $20 isn't going to break me, but it is a drop in the bucket for a company that charges a MAJOR premium for tools. And to have me without a tool for over 3 months! I mean if I was making my living with their tools, I would have been starving. I will NO LONGER buy SK tools. I hope they are happy. If any of them break, I'm headed to a local Lowes and replacing them with their house brands (they used to do that in the past at least.) Anyway, just wanted to let all of you know what happened with the bar. Moose --=_alternative 0079A2A985258A9A_= Well, in Oct, my SK breaker bar broke.  
I couldn't find any phone numbers or anything, just a website to fill out some info.

After putting in a claim for the "breaker bar repair kit", I waited almost a month, nothing.  Then I posted here and others expressed their dissatisfaction with SK as well.

I finally found an email and sent them one asking if they received my claim.  They stated that they did not have it.

I resubmitted it, waited 2 days and emailed again.  Again, they said they didn't have it.

Then about a day later, they sent me an email stated they DID have it, but they didn't see it because the email address (I have no idea what that meant.)

But they also said that I would have to send them the broken tool in for a replacement, since the kit wasn't available.

So I spend about $12 sending it in (with all the postal tracking and such.)

About 2 weeks AFTER I confirmed they received it, I sent another email.  Nothing.

Then, I get an invoice for the shipping of the new tool to me for $8 about 4 days later.  I pay it within an hour of getting it.

About a week later, I get a message saying they received my payment and will be shipping out the replacement.  Now, this was about mid Dec.  So I hoped they would get it in the mail sooner before the holidays.

Nope, they waited until the new year to ship it.  Since the place is only about 4 hours away from me in PA, it only took 2 days to get it.  So I now have my new SK breaker bar.

Note, in all my emails to them I expressed how much I loved SK tools, and how I relied on my breaker bar and how I would have to buy a cheap one to use in the meantime if it was going to take a while to replace.

In the end, I am not at all happy.  American tool companies used to be worth the extra price.  However, I know that if I had a cheap Home Depot Rigid one and walked into a store with it broken, I would walk out with a new one.

The other thing is that I had to pay the shipping BOTH WAYS.  Really?  If they didn't like the photos I sent, they could have paid for the shipping one way at least!  I mean, $20 isn't going to break me, but it is a drop in the bucket for a company that charges a MAJOR premium for tools.  And to have me without a tool for over 3 months!  I mean if I was making my living with their tools, I would have been starving.

I will NO LONGER buy SK tools.    I hope they are happy.  If any of them break, I'm headed to a local Lowes and replacing them with their house brands (they used to do that in the past at least.)

Anyway, just wanted to let all of you know what happened with the bar.

Moose --=_alternative 0079A2A985258A9A_=-- --===============7725473028465266738== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7725473028465266738==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 4 18:20:39 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A0BCA01FB for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2024 18:20:39 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ot1-f44.google.com (unknown [209.85.210.44]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E3F9A036C for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2024 17:27:33 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ot1-f44.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-6dbfbd2be99so610967a34.1 for ; Thu, 04 Jan 2024 16:27:23 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704414443; x=1705019243; darn=autox.team.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=36mSozFIyI5FZCi2NcseD4wGP2cc7lMk7lk7yRjuk6c=; b=KlLOQu0EMa/AAD9ANkIlXEDdOs24Emk94hSoLc7VkNzoQpNrrCraQXpVxwEOL2oyhq 8cGPixmPAAOWvXIJE17B35EJZPszU1imJkHyRwWbGrgF7hyDuPKABmLAeFjYdju4j2iX Z9HEr1+cZSXRPMmGLcHTd/P1tjNgJWSNDEXWCUUKhDOryjkY6NPOSQof0eb2fhCQiLqA nrLT3vFqimKZVjip7fnjeaUYOdWjZx8H/8XEnUkdApu+Q1MQ4jzY6z/n0eGFZBw6Sy5W ZeSKDaqAvnLCXn1MQBTJ024yTnzl+5scmLOitzHes/OfhbOMyMvUN7XH/w+BLjcoO0mh p8RA== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704414443; x=1705019243; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=36mSozFIyI5FZCi2NcseD4wGP2cc7lMk7lk7yRjuk6c=; b=smsE8PxPbfr9L3zNZa3rdjl8Z036bsFxVvpsE+pK5ov94mNxJxmV/MV70sbJj/4mhl 3JduRgUtiyuhEYipuq6tAsHH8tKXj/ldsdid/hCvelj+dJasvHOLh5tyj+g9JPXy2u+e 13qhFALcz5mB5OYdfcEnFL+Kl7no6Jz1+wPhOBlJsOSVOr/E2A5saI2pz+5bN3Nuttns wzQazE5iIxcWnX+Xdij6G0iHd1STPqy3+VuWRZaNrJJYM4RuVCgWIAxiTsxS0bvlc0F2 NTWFvQNqaPWxIn43OCyrxrV8jCYhE+Lx8mUDayjz1n+meJWLYnVlot+Xh2f1lCy9eBMe 1Lxg== FKo1QYKAff/VVFHoPm4ceibjHuzVbBNGJYgwPazTMh76z2M= p18-20020a0568708a1200b002040a249bd2mr1434024oaq.58.1704414443331; Thu, 04 Jan 2024 16:27:23 -0800 (PST) References: From: old dirtbeard Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 16:27:14 -0800 To: eric@megageek.com Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] SK breaker bar Saga (the final update) Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3356657332684026389== --000000000000722467060e27e984 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am very sorry to hear this, Moose. I too have been a loyal SK customer for over 50 years. I have a very larage collection of tools from them. I know that they were purchased in 2021 by Hangzhou GreatStar Industrial, a Chinese conglomerate. I believe that some/most of the manufacturing is still done here, but it is no longer an American company. For new purchases I believe Proto and Wright still are US-made and owned, but things changs. I bought a Backyard Buddy 4-post automotive lift in 2019 that was wonderful. It was made by Steel Valley Lifts. I ordered another one last month, but now it is owned by Advantage Lifts which sells imported lifts as well. Although the core Backyard Buddy lift is still made in the US of US steel, many of the ancillary components now are imported and it only says "assembled in USA" instead of "made in USA." The substituted imported parts are not up to the quality of the Backyard sold by Steel City. I truly hate to see this degradation of quality happen to really good American tool companies. I guess I am just glad that I have most of the tools now that I will ever need. best, doug On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 2:16=E2=80=AFPM wrote: > Well, in Oct, my SK breaker bar broke. > I couldn't find any phone numbers or anything, just a website to fill out > some info. > > After putting in a claim for the "breaker bar repair kit", I waited almos= t > a month, nothing. Then I posted here and others expressed their > dissatisfaction with SK as well. > > I finally found an email and sent them one asking if they received my > claim. They stated that they did not have it. > > I resubmitted it, waited 2 days and emailed again. Again, they said they > didn't have it. > > Then about a day later, they sent me an email stated they DID have it, bu= t > they didn't see it because the email address (I have no idea what that > meant.) > > But they also said that I would have to send them the broken tool in for = a > replacement, since the kit wasn't available. > > So I spend about $12 sending it in (with all the postal tracking and such= .) > > About 2 weeks AFTER I confirmed they received it, I sent another email. > Nothing. > > Then, I get an invoice for the shipping of the new tool to me for $8 abou= t > 4 days later. I pay it within an hour of getting it. > > About a week later, I get a message saying they received my payment and > will be shipping out the replacement. Now, this was about mid Dec. So I > hoped they would get it in the mail sooner before the holidays. > > Nope, they waited until the new year to ship it. Since the place is only > about 4 hours away from me in PA, it only took 2 days to get it. So I no= w > have my new SK breaker bar. > > Note, in all my emails to them I expressed how much I loved SK tools, and > how I relied on my breaker bar and how I would have to buy a cheap one to > use in the meantime if it was going to take a while to replace. > > In the end, I am not at all happy. American tool companies used to be > worth the extra price. However, I know that if I had a cheap Home Depot > Rigid one and walked into a store with it broken, I would walk out with a > new one. > > The other thing is that I had to pay the shipping BOTH WAYS. Really? If > they didn't like the photos I sent, they could have paid for the shipping > one way at least! I mean, $20 isn't going to break me, but it is a drop = in > the bucket for a company that charges a MAJOR premium for tools. And to > have me without a tool for over 3 months! I mean if I was making my livi= ng > with their tools, I would have been starving. > > I will NO LONGER buy SK tools. I hope they are happy. If any of them > break, I'm headed to a local Lowes and replacing them with their house > brands (they used to do that in the past at least.) > > Anyway, just wanted to let all of you know what happened with the bar. > > Moose _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com > > --000000000000722467060e27e984 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I a= m very sorry to hear this, Moose. I too have been a loyal SK customer for o= ver 50 years. I have a very larage collection of tools from them.

I know that they were purchased in 2021 by=C2=A0Hangzho= u GreatStar Industrial, a Chinese conglomerate.=C2=A0=C2=A0I believe=C2=A0that some/most of the manufacturing i= s still done here, but it is no longer an American company.

For new purchases=C2=A0I believe Proto and Wright still are US-made= and owned, but things changs.

I bought a Backyard B= uddy 4-post automotive lift in 2019 that was wonderful. It was made by Stee= l Valley Lifts. I ordered another one last month, but now it is owned by Ad= vantage Lifts which sells imported lifts as well.=C2=A0

Although the core Backyard Buddy lift is still made in the US of US ste= el, many of the ancillary components now are imported and it only says &quo= t;assembled in USA" instead of "made in USA." The substitute= d imported parts are not up to the quality of the Backyard sold by Steel Ci= ty.=C2=A0

I truly hate to see this degradation of = quality happen to really good American tool companies. I guess I am just gl= ad that I have most of the tools now that I will ever need.

best,

doug

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 = at 2:16=E2=80=AFPM <eric@megageek.c= om> wrote:
Well, in Oct, my SK breaker bar broke. =C2=A0
I couldn't fi= nd any phone numbers or anything, just a website to fill out some info.

After putting in a claim for the "breaker bar repair kit", I waited almost a month, nothing.=C2=A0 Then I posted here and others expressed their dissa= tisfaction with SK as well.

I finally found an email and sent them one asking if they received my claim.=C2=A0 They stated that they did not have it.

I resubmitted it, waited 2 days and emailed again.=C2=A0 Again, they said they didn't have it.

Then about a day later, they sent me an email stated they DID have it, but they didn't s= ee it because the email address (I have no idea what that meant.)

But they also said that I would have to send them the broken tool in for a replacement, since the kit wasn't available.

So I spend about $12 sending it in (with all the postal tracking and such.)

About 2 weeks AFTER I confirmed they received it, I sent another email.=C2=A0 Nothing.

Then, I get an invoice for the shipping of the new tool to me for $8 about 4 days later. =C2=A0I pay it within an hour of getting it.

About a week late= r, I get a message saying they received my payment and will be shipping out the replacement.=C2=A0 Now, this was about mid Dec.=C2=A0 So I hoped they would get it in the mail sooner before the holidays.

Nope, they waited until the new year to ship it.=C2=A0 Since the place is only about 4 hours away from me in PA, it only took 2 days to get it.=C2=A0 So I now have my new SK breaker bar.

Note, in all my emails to them I expressed how much I loved SK tools, and how I relied on my breaker bar and how I would have to buy a cheap one to use in the meantime if it was going to take a while to replace.

In the end, I am not at all happy.=C2=A0 American tool companies used to be worth the extra price.=C2=A0 However, I know that if I had a cheap Home Depot Rigid one and walked into a store with it broken, I would walk out with a new one.

The other thing is that I had to pay the shipping BOTH WAYS.=C2=A0 Really?=C2=A0 If they didn't like the photos I sent, they could have paid for the shipping on= e way at least!=C2=A0 I mean, $20 isn't going to break me, but it is a dr= op in the bucket for a company that charges a MAJOR premium for tools.=C2=A0 A= nd to have me without a tool for over 3 months!=C2=A0 I mean if I was making my living with their tools, I would have been starving.

I will NO LONGER buy SK tools. =C2=A0 =C2=A0I hope they are happy.=C2=A0 If any of them break, I'm headed to a local Lowes and replacing them with their house brands (they used to do that in the past at least.)

Anyway, just want= ed to let all of you know what happened with the bar.

Moose _______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/dirtbeard@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com

--000000000000722467060e27e984-- --===============3356657332684026389== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3356657332684026389==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 6 01:12:29 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23D52A0AA5 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 01:12:29 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [34.199.103.79]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58A2CA03E7 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2024 07:51:47 -0700 (MST) To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent From: Moose Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2024 09:51:37 -0500 01/05/2024 09:51:44 AM, Serialize complete at 01/05/2024 09:51:44 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============8137204222832352302== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0051A18E85258A9B_= I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free, right away.) Anyway. I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge. I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever. It was a pain to clean it out. In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil. No alternatives or specs The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fill out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.) Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to find out if can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little easier to deal with. Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds me to change the oil. OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change? Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is easier to get and or better. Thanks! Moose --=_alternative 0051A18E85258A9B_= I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free, right away.)

Anyway.  I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge.

I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever.  It was a pain to clean it out.
In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil.  No alternatives or specs

The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fill out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.)

Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to find out if  can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little easier to deal with.  Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds me to change the oil.

OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change?

Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is easier to get and or better.

Thanks!

Moose --=_alternative 0051A18E85258A9B_=-- --===============8137204222832352302== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8137204222832352302==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 6 08:49:52 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD517A07E2 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 08:49:52 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oa1-f48.google.com (unknown [209.85.160.48]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83809A0803 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 06:28:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oa1-f48.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-20536d5c5c7so209771fac.2 for ; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 05:28:14 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704547693; x=1705152493; darn=autox.team.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=v0Mq2HUzsnlPLKkUlGS9/HTsxosKeW9SouUFFAe48GI=; b=OczwuhqZIBJpqTLxBB6oMEdi9SynqCfbB3Gkix62s2TPRBI3q9rMX8ePnRVAlXv2Fp LBtJfsImB6J10FUi622810UjEdnWvxxSpNy3TVkcXQmy4zgedsoKDAaXNh0ip0u7YSHd ByAR3mAo+skECl60SbdxLwOYl7X6A+rcueIQFN+enTylxbQS7AAddI6abHegTXMRV6C+ V96yOXXwywUzi1J5/WareR3v3iS6jHJOEZPpv4VTsQ/XIPFQvhMyUAPzBx4ft5v77k2M pDnXFeAKvtrT7hmcaCLVkpUfNsbZeBEovpDwFFvRIMVAae6ohvueTSkHQVuSf6hPatSW ph6w== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704547694; x=1705152494; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=v0Mq2HUzsnlPLKkUlGS9/HTsxosKeW9SouUFFAe48GI=; b=qf1ZwRGDHU38mRCgCgKaV7JCkZrGf74gBbDQT29wLGvuV9GbSj/mvmmAcXQKIhqx5r IG496bNz+57AVgL+vLq2Qiicie4kR+kAoHu7Z1RxWbjXx2O2xorz9CcZ5L72+7+GqQH+ xB6DXUi4r7SG40B9W9Q07J+IW6ml4bBnivdYL6W4tyGWFJu6CwMFaYlnH5S/bB/YNyun NMuVpjeS9LiKR18aXRYpYe0DIZLLS2Q8ohHBodtyfSlNwJToR+fjlG/rMMqQq05QQbdN qbBtHKAi/Fb/3rlfg+lfuMo6Ts+iaANCBG5LjBMz+FFUDM//Y+xCmRnev8KsgWCIci93 wkPg== tsf5gX3c0h5OHtaUB7KyvZFpmu360hiygAgSfLmDOW0eAOg= uu7-20020a056870ae0700b001fadb9b4080mr633598oab.22.1704547693517; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 05:28:13 -0800 (PST) References: From: old dirtbeard Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 05:28:04 -0800 To: Moose Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============6864722859782370610== --000000000000c65f4f060e46ef3e Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI Moose, Surprised to hear that there was sludge in the oil when you drained it; I have not experienced that when changing my oil. I also thank you for posting this message as it reminded me that I have not changed the oil in my compressor for a long time and need to look for oil. I saw this Quincy article on compressor oil options, but it does sound like compressor oil mainly needs to be non-detergent to eliminate carbon build-up (I never could understand why automotive engine oil would create carbon in a compressor which I have to believe runs at a much lower temperature than a compressor, but that is their statement), but also= : - Heat absorption: Air compressor oil absorbs the heat produced from compressed air, thereby keeping the compressor at a cooler temperature. - Oxidation resistance: Air compressor oil contains additives that delay the oxidation process and acid formation. - Longer life span: The additives in air compressor oil also increase the lubricant=E2=80=99s lifetime, protect machine components when on sta= ndby and make the lubricant compatible with a wide variety of conditions. - Viscosity in cold temperatures: Although some oils fail to do their job once the temperature drops, air compressor oil maintains its viscosi= ty even when it=E2=80=99s cold. - Demulsification: Air compressor oil also contains additives designed to improve water separation, which will protect the compressor from wate= r and oil emulsions. This makes it easier for the oleophilic bags to captu= re the oil later on. - Anti-foaming abilities: When big air bubbles rise to the oil=E2=80=99s surface, foam is produced. This increases oxidation because it exposes m= ore of the oil=E2=80=99s surface to oxygen. Without anti-foaming additives, = the oil separators would be saturated by the foam and the air compressor=E2=80= =99s life span would decrease. This is because saturated oil separators create a pressure drop, which leads to more energy consumption. Another article I read recommends these three: 1. Dewalt Synthetic Air Compressor Oil 2. Royal Purple 01513 Synthetic Air Compressor Oil 3. Campbell Hausfeld MP12 Standard Compressor Lubricant The Dewalt is 20wt and better for start-ups in colder climates. Royal Purple is 30wt and better for warmer climates. The author said for hard working compressors, this is his first choice. The CH is his recommendation for older pumps with more blow-by. It also says change the oil every 800 hours, or minimally once a year. Unless I am in a major project, I probably do not get 800 hours of runtime a year, but an annual change will be on the calendar from now on. Thank you again, Moose for your post; best post of the day for me. I will be changing my oil this week, will be using Royal Purple, and will put a recurring reminder on my Outlook calendar to change it yearly, at least. Best, doug On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 12:19=E2=80=AFAM Moose wrote: > I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got > it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free, > right away.) > > Anyway. I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but > when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge. > > I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever. It was a > pain to clean it out. > In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand > that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil. No alternatives or > specs > > The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fil= l > out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then > pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.) > > Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to fin= d > out if can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little > easier to deal with. Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on > Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it remin= ds > me to change the oil. > > OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change? > > Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is > easier to get and or better. > > Thanks! > > Moose_______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com > > --000000000000c65f4f060e46ef3e Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
HI = Moose,

Surprised to hear=C2=A0that there= was sludge in the oil when you drained it; I have not experienced that whe= n changing my oil.

<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"">I also thank you for posting this me= ssage as it reminded me that I have not changed the oil in my compressor fo= r a long time and need to look for oil.=C2=A0

I saw thi= s Quincy article on compressor oil options, but it does sound like compress= or oil mainly needs to be non-detergent to eliminate carbon build-up (I nev= er could understand why automotive engine oil would create carbon in a comp= ressor which=C2=A0I have to believe=C2=A0runs at a much lower=C2=A0temperat= ure than a compressor, but that is their statement), but also:

  • He= at absorption:=C2=A0Air compressor oil absorbs the heat produced fro= m compressed air, thereby keeping the compressor at a cooler temperature.
  • Oxidation res= istance:=C2=A0Air compressor oil contains additives that delay the o= xidation process and acid formation.
  • Longer=C2=A0life span:=C2=A0The additives i= n air compressor oil also increase the lubricant=E2=80=99s lifetime, protec= t machine components when on standby and make the lubricant compatible with= a wide variety of conditions.
  • Viscosity in cold temperatures:=C2=A0Although som= e oils fail to do their job once the temperature drops, air compressor oil = maintains its viscosity even when it=E2=80=99s cold.
  • Demulsification:=C2=A0Air= compressor oil also contains additives designed to improve water separatio= n, which will protect the compressor from water and oil emulsions. This mak= es it easier for the oleophilic bags to capture the oil later on.
  • = Anti-foaming abilitie= s:=C2=A0When big air bubbles rise to the oil=E2=80=99s surface, foam= is produced. This increases oxidation because it exposes more of the oil= =E2=80=99s surface to oxygen. Without anti-foaming additives, the oil separ= ators would be saturated by the foam and the air compressor=E2=80=99s=C2=A0= life span=C2=A0would decrease. This is because saturated oil separators cre= ate a pressure drop, which leads to more energy consumption.

Another article I read recommends these three:
1. Dewalt Synthetic Air Compressor Oil
2. Royal Purple 01513 Synthetic Air Compressor= Oil
3. Campbell Hausfeld MP= 12 Standard Compressor Lubricant
The Dewalt is 20wt and better for start-ups in colde= r climates. Royal=C2=A0Purple is 30wt and better for warmer climates. The a= uthor said for hard working compressors, this is his first choice. The CH i= s his recommendation for older pumps with more blow-by.
It also says change the oil every 800 hours, or= minimally once a year. Unless I am in a major project,=C2=A0 I probably do= not get 800 hours of runtime a year, but an annual change will be on the c= alendar from now on.

Thank y= ou again, Moose for your post; best post of the day for me. I will be chang= ing my oil this week, will be using Royal Purple, and will put a recurring = reminder on my Outlook calendar to change it yearly, at least.

Best,

doug

On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 12:19=E2=80=AFAM Moose= <eric@megageek.com> wrote:<= br>
I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free, right away.)

Anyway.=C2=A0 I maybe let the oil = go a little too long between changes, but when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge.

I use the Eaton oil, and the compr= essor is not overworked ever.=C2=A0 It was a pain to clean it out.
In the manual, it says I can't= use automotive oil (and I can understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil.=C2=A0 No alternatives or specs

The problem is that ordering the o= il from them is a pain (you have to fill out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.)

Don't get me wrong, I think th= ey are a great company, but I wanted to find out if =C2=A0can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little easier to deal with.=C2=A0 Ideall= y, I would love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurrin= g delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds me to change the oil.

OR, is their an oil that doesn'= ;t turn to sludge and is easy to change?

Again, overall, I am not looking f= or a cheaper oil, just one that is easier to get and or better.

Thanks!

Moose______________________= _________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/dirtbeard@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com

--000000000000c65f4f060e46ef3e-- --===============6864722859782370610== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============6864722859782370610==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 6 09:22:21 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06A79A0357 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 09:22:21 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-a1p-077437.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.103.146.56]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9EEDA0088 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 08:00:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-a1p-077246.sys.comcast.net ([96.103.145.237]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resqmta-a1p-077437.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id M6uwrijX7G0QrM89hrhbLi; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 15:00:09 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1704553209; bh=9UiqxLsJDUVIHuG4HEwf0sNWvCmgXy+DbL0vbS9FF4s=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From:Xfinity-Spam-Result; b=K5Uun9l+Mwr4UT9tY2XRJU+QKjnhUgD/vzv/InLixwuVugTYc2qFUHhnC/OL591py uzgpFMuG9+K11zaHwtNF8P+LofiDK45zluWzVS5rGFqvq9eP+Z0r6H+z6mrMvaGKdg cus3RJfoXHcP1yyDlPqM8tVzsgdO8wUeCf5AWU/j6qs48a7vEjENDSqyX0wihkHMyq gBw934MNAKPZ89xqetF74jXm1S9+b3Qb9K8eYmxvd47Tp7mHnMlhpX25qC/NeU4+A1 OenrUqFsMgv9aDBi0meBvtLExHEJPBar/M/eQkqYcTm7JNw/CHitb5gsphXW8GTZu9 i/ZRanv5hWv+g== Received: from [192.168.1.119] ([104.153.206.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resomta-a1p-077246.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id M89Dr2X4li4CxM89ErybzE; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 14:59:45 +0000 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 06:59:42 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: From: Bob Spidell Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============2480501047661479487== boundary="------------c9hXAMhZT0zBRHKpnV56alZd" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------c9hXAMhZT0zBRHKpnV56alZd Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My late father had a 5HP, 60gal DeVilbiss he bought probably 30 or more years ago; it gets light/medium duty on our ranch. He probably changed the oil a couple times but not in the last 10 years or so that I know of. The motor cooked a while back--after a large painting job--and I installed a new one with a new belt, and changed out the oil. I did a lot of 'shopping,' but was mostly considering price. These days, synthetic is often the same price or even cheaper and I think by-and-large it's better oil (the old tractors still get cheap mineral 10W-40, the Healeys get Valvoline 20W-50 Racing and the Mustang gets Ford's ubiquitous 5W-20 semi-syn; free from the dealer). I settled on this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1UZMJJOVEC3U&th=1 I pumped the old oil out the top with a vacuum unit and didn't see any evidence of sludge and, actually I wouldn't expect any since you're not dealing with combustion byproducts. Bob On 1/5/2024 6:51 AM, Moose wrote: > I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I > got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, > free, right away.) > > Anyway.  I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but > when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge. > > I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever.  It > was a pain to clean it out. > In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can > understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil.  No > alternatives or specs > > The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to > fill out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days > later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.) > > Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to > find out if  can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a > little easier to deal with.  Ideally, I would love to find the correct > oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months > so it reminds me to change the oil. > > OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change? > > Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is > easier to get and or better. > > Thanks! > > Moose > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell@comcast.net > --------------c9hXAMhZT0zBRHKpnV56alZd Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My late father had a 5HP, 60gal DeVilbiss he bought probably 30 or more years ago; it gets light/medium duty on our ranch. He probably changed the oil a couple times but not in the last 10 years or so that I know of. The motor cooked a while back--after a large painting job--and I installed a new one with a new belt, and changed out the oil. I did a lot of 'shopping,' but was mostly considering price. These days, synthetic is often the same price or even cheaper and I think by-and-large it's better oil (the old tractors still get cheap mineral 10W-40, the Healeys get Valvoline 20W-50 Racing and the Mustang gets Ford's ubiquitous 5W-20 semi-syn; free from the dealer). I settled on this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1UZMJJOVEC3U&th=1

I pumped the old oil out the top with a vacuum unit and didn't see any evidence of sludge and, actually I wouldn't expect any since you're not dealing with combustion byproducts.

Bob

On 1/5/2024 6:51 AM, Moose wrote:
I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free, right away.)

Anyway.  I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge.

I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever.  It was a pain to clean it out.
In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil.  No alternatives or specs

The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fill out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.)

Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to find out if  can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little easier to deal with.  Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds me to change the oil.

OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change?

Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is easier to get and or better.

Thanks!

Moose 
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

--------------c9hXAMhZT0zBRHKpnV56alZd-- --===============2480501047661479487== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2480501047661479487==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 6 09:51:36 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADDD0A0526 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 09:51:36 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oa1-f48.google.com (unknown [209.85.160.48]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 229C0A0404 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 09:38:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oa1-f48.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-204520717b3so482517fac.0 for ; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 08:38:20 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704559100; x=1705163900; darn=autox.team.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=20FADkwttFsYz0bOy0dBFNqBNALJYvrkexpue0HO95Y=; b=eDchS1Thtlh0USvmaNFeDlaTstlN0nD9tfCPY0TVGZi/rZqxthmC5ZP7AecM0InTQd iFySJtmaj2NVAT3R9t0KBpK3PrCZMr5eJVHomw95ivUy0LVgnQFfKC/sPnwOMCidVheC zxX/c7COgD7zBze5MNpUoL71/E5q/GNp3foqYSSPm66lDJmjRj8F4gbBwkiXb6liyfdb UJ+iAYHES6AAItb3/donwsM4haYNMBSn/Zt8u5LrPIjEM6ys8YWm6xw0pY7IwPtGkKqz v9x3TlNs08UzbOL3Q/7r4TlRtX593g/ESFidxMqxYuJC0TBFMI5ZwuJ5gRY8MLXHHiAP sLwQ== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704559100; x=1705163900; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=20FADkwttFsYz0bOy0dBFNqBNALJYvrkexpue0HO95Y=; b=L41/MyPLfxB4E4+vSr2xHHJvDy7C+SAGXmkp5bHZqpBVF/HyRai08ljcPyvivkJv+P BFVnbBLh50PqYXKpBNWMYH4G68+HEZkrTSvRUiJ7UAlvjUWSOfxvElKvXaU6b4B4TGHI 6eI/mQJgGmS06YATxb432d6XRb+RMwf8DwJX0zeVvzs5nmyhy9ZNL5sRjt3cKRwBCkaz 7myVbw264/V48vgT6Lx/zwi+UX+iBsHFFkkN7OotYAMH/IB9gOstOLWSDUxPoj8WVyt/ W+AUFTfWXRx/m+OgpmZHqfRceC1StGDkXA4oaWQY0h6t+KkDWl1S7aVJlhKu1eqNLe7L ytFg== 1Uxbs2JLKjC0Xca1YRInBZm6KvNrycIguyeSr0c= oo21-20020a0568715a9500b00204243119dfmr1590783oac.118.1704559100042; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 08:38:20 -0800 (PST) References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> From: old dirtbeard Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 08:38:09 -0800 To: Bob Spidell Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3487949354453497792== --000000000000a823ed060e49975f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bob, Wow, that sounds like good oil, US-made, and the price is great. Thank you. best, doug On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 8:25=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell w= rote: > My late father had a 5HP, 60gal DeVilbiss he bought probably 30 or more > years ago; it gets light/medium duty on our ranch. He probably changed th= e > oil a couple times but not in the last 10 years or so that I know of. The > motor cooked a while back--after a large painting job--and I installed a > new one with a new belt, and changed out the oil. I did a lot of > 'shopping,' but was mostly considering price. These days, synthetic is > often the same price or even cheaper and I think by-and-large it's better > oil (the old tractors still get cheap mineral 10W-40, the Healeys get > Valvoline 20W-50 Racing and the Mustang gets Ford's ubiquitous 5W-20 > semi-syn; free from the dealer). I settled on this: > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=3Dewc_pr_img_1?smid=3DA1= UZMJJOVEC3U&th=3D1 > > I pumped the old oil out the top with a vacuum unit and didn't see any > evidence of sludge and, actually I wouldn't expect any since you're not > dealing with combustion byproducts. > > Bob > > On 1/5/2024 6:51 AM, Moose wrote: > > I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got > it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free, > right away.) > > Anyway. I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but > when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge. > > I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever. It was a > pain to clean it out. > In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand > that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil. No alternatives or > specs > > The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fil= l > out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then > pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.) > > Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to fin= d > out if can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little > easier to deal with. Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on > Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it remin= ds > me to change the oil. > > OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change? > > Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is > easier to get and or better. > > Thanks! > > Moose > > _______________________________________________ > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar= chive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspid= ell@comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com > > --000000000000a823ed060e49975f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi = Bob,

=
Wow, that sounds lik= e good oil, US-made, and the price is great.

Thank you.

best,
doug

On= Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 8:25=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
My late father had a 5HP, 60gal DeVilbiss he bought probably 30 or more years ago; it gets light/medium duty on our ranch. He probably changed the oil a couple times but not in the last 10 years or so that I know of. The motor cooked a while back--after a large painting job--and I installed a new one with a new belt, and changed out the oil. I did a lot of 'shopping,' but was mostly consider= ing price. These days, synthetic is often the same price or even cheaper and I think by-and-large it's better oil (the old tractors still ge= t cheap mineral 10W-40, the Healeys get Valvoline 20W-50 Racing and the Mustang gets Ford's ubiquitous 5W-20 semi-syn; free from the dealer). I settled on this:

https://www.amazon.com/g= p/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=3Dewc_pr_img_1?smid=3DA1UZMJJOVEC3U&th=3D1=

I pumped the old oil out the top with a vacuum unit and didn't see any evidence of sludge and, actually I wouldn't expect any since you're not dealing with combustion byproducts.

Bob

On 1/5/2024 6:51 AM, Moose wrote:
=20 I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free, right away.)

Anyway.=C2=A0 I maybe let the oi= l go a little too long between changes, but when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge.

I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever.=C2=A0 It was a pain to clean it out.
In the manual, it says I can'= ;t use automotive oil (and I can understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil.=C2=A0 No alternatives or specs

The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fill out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.)

Don't get me wrong, I think = they are a great company, but I wanted to find out if =C2=A0can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little easier to deal with. =C2=A0Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds me to change the oil= .

OR, is their an oil that doesn&#= 39;t turn to sludge and is easy to change?

Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is easier to get and or better.

Thanks!

Moose 
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net
//www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

alk/bspidell@comcast.net" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/o=
ptions/shop-talk/bspidell@comcast.net

_______________________________________________

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--000000000000a823ed060e49975f-- --===============3487949354453497792== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3487949354453497792==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 6 10:31:18 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A160A02C5 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 10:31:18 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pj1-f43.google.com (unknown [209.85.216.43]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DACEBA014C for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 10:20:20 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-pj1-f43.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-28cc07d8876so295644a91.1 for ; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 09:20:11 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704561611; x=1705166411; darn=autox.team.net; h=content-language:thread-index:mime-version:message-id:date:subject :in-reply-to:references:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=0KWEobjBmxoHLXyJ/CUrRBs014r0Yg62OOYCEnkGmhg=; b=horoaR/Seb9n+Yr1uICI6OY63NqL6F4JZ9iLZHtjGtygA1t5dX51m+xM5FJskuHRJz dbE/Der3VZ7Fu4MQtn26yFp/Eozu3tuIak4PNUF7FIS+LKvCJZ8LOpDtnn35cPiTybV6 Df4pVaJ3rkstb3Cztnq3XT9rBu8ii4LSgdvyUC+8ghoy4E91Qz/xft1K53d+Mtyd7gNz 8Em/BJGUWagccdCU9neiHRJFu2c4iEFh11FXV6SfvpQB53b69p7Sc6WNtIutSEBmeclq ZC5m4jQLgURKRjUGIFPWkMp0Qcl614/XczXqv+lD9HMgDgZCLj9ElIKQZ/o9zx4yR8kF OZbg== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704561611; x=1705166411; h=content-language:thread-index:mime-version:message-id:date:subject :in-reply-to:references:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=0KWEobjBmxoHLXyJ/CUrRBs014r0Yg62OOYCEnkGmhg=; b=lx8HM/pEtYHfT1NtCOtSjBRD6brVt8CfNTJbMpdnSH7IGBD5FKF7LgdyQ7OcPqKsPg 4bwDraQYN0VAYhX8MiGpOTDYi9Rmzt2CyBmp/bfjtelxkZdgRXvlDrPYs3wExsRCilgj AlyzMoI6iIgQnTFUe1mpEaDidok6LQhalavHJa4N/FBtGlh9qImPEtCrZxkcfw8Tj6ap BWwKK2Gx8WC9TWQ+3t9Pq+bY9OUSk1W0N0OFLH1bGF7SSHGGgg+J8RHn8j6Z7hPVB6Lg TY6gbTfND1InqEgk2QJ0tCaqLxtMH91torHgmygRt4N60o74Soc/o233qKRu2MRl/mKf 7OXQ== +jjGQB8O+5eIPEkS1H9RhIw= gt4-20020a17090af2c400b0028bd4d6b064mr406969pjb.80.1704561610817; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 09:20:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from alBeelinkU59 (ip72-203-30-179.lv.lv.cox.net. [72.203.30.179]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 29-20020a17090a19dd00b0028d2741085csm1824322pjj.41.2024.01.06.09.20.09 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 06 Jan 2024 09:20:10 -0800 (PST) From: To: "'old dirtbeard'" , References: Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 09:20:08 -0800 Thread-Index: AQFMxT0Adko9QJkhe9HnZL0auAHsPwJ03UGAsdRWY6A= Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] SK breaker bar Saga (the final update) Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============7488695798499446887== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_254D_01DA4081.8B66CD20" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_254D_01DA4081.8B66CD20 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, it IS sad to see well respected brands decline in quality! =20 Re: =E2=80=9CAlthough the core Backyard Buddy lift is still made in the = US of US steel, many of the ancillary components now are imported and it = only says "assembled in USA" instead of "made in USA." The substituted = imported parts are not up to the quality of the Backyard sold by Steel = City. =E2=80=9C =20 I have to assume the domestic companies ARE getting what they are = ordering from the foreign suppliers, raising the question of why are = they either [1] specifying lower quality, or [2] specifying higher = quality but accepting lesser goods? =20 ----------------------------------- All the best, =20 Al Fuller =20 From: Shop-talk On Behalf Of old = dirtbeard Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2024 4:27 PM To: eric@megageek.com Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] SK breaker bar Saga (the final update) =20 I am very sorry to hear this, Moose. I too have been a loyal SK customer = for over 50 years. I have a very larage collection of tools from them. =20 I know that they were purchased in 2021 by Hangzhou GreatStar = Industrial, a Chinese conglomerate. I believe that some/most of the = manufacturing is still done here, but it is no longer an American = company. =20 For new purchases I believe Proto and Wright still are US-made and = owned, but things changs. =20 I bought a Backyard Buddy 4-post automotive lift in 2019 that was = wonderful. It was made by Steel Valley Lifts. I ordered another one last = month, but now it is owned by Advantage Lifts which sells imported lifts = as well.=20 =20 Although the core Backyard Buddy lift is still made in the US of US = steel, many of the ancillary components now are imported and it only = says "assembled in USA" instead of "made in USA." The substituted = imported parts are not up to the quality of the Backyard sold by Steel = City.=20 =20 I truly hate to see this degradation of quality happen to really good = American tool companies. I guess I am just glad that I have most of the = tools now that I will ever need. =20 best, =20 doug =20 On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 2:16=E2=80=AFPM

Yes, it IS sad to see well = respected brands decline in quality!

 

Re: = =E2=80=9CAlthough the core Backyard = Buddy lift is still made in the US of US steel, many of the ancillary = components now are imported and it only says "assembled in = USA" instead of "made in USA." The substituted imported = parts are not up to the quality of the Backyard sold by Steel = City. =E2=80=9C

 

I have to assume the = domestic companies ARE getting what they are ordering from the foreign = suppliers, raising the question of why are they either [1] specifying = lower quality, or [2] specifying higher quality but accepting lesser = goods?

 

-----------------------------------

All the best,

 

Al = Fuller

 

From: Shop-talk = <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of old = dirtbeard
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2024 4:27 = PM
To: eric@megageek.com
Cc: = Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] SK breaker = bar Saga (the final update)

 

I am very sorry to = hear this, Moose. I too have been a loyal SK customer for over 50 years. = I have a very larage collection of tools from = them.

 

I = know that they were purchased in 2021 by Hangzhou GreatStar = Industrial, a Chinese conglomerate.  I believe that some/most of the = manufacturing is still done here, but it is no longer an American = company.

 

For new = purchases I believe Proto and Wright still are US-made and owned, = but things changs.

 

I bought a Backyard = Buddy 4-post automotive lift in 2019 that was wonderful. It was made by = Steel Valley Lifts. I ordered another one last month, but now it is = owned by Advantage Lifts which sells imported lifts as = well. 

 

Although the core = Backyard Buddy lift is still made in the US of US steel, many of the = ancillary components now are imported and it only says "assembled = in USA" instead of "made in USA." The substituted = imported parts are not up to the quality of the Backyard sold by Steel = City. 

 

I truly hate to see = this degradation of quality happen to really good American tool = companies. I guess I am just glad that I have most of the tools now that = I will ever need.

 

best,

 

doug

 

On = Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 2:16=E2=80=AFPM <eric@megageek.com> = wrote:

Well, in Oct, = my SK breaker bar broke.  
I couldn't = find any phone numbers or anything, just a website to fill out some = info.

After putting = in a claim for the "breaker bar repair kit", I waited almost a = month, nothing.  Then I posted here and others expressed their = dissatisfaction with SK as well.

I finally = found an email and sent them one asking if they received my claim.  = They stated that they did not have it.

I resubmitted = it, waited 2 days and emailed again.  Again, they said they didn't = have it.

Then about a = day later, they sent me an email stated they DID have it, but they = didn't see it because the email address (I have no idea what that = meant.)

But they also = said that I would have to send them the broken tool in for a = replacement, since the kit wasn't available.

So I spend = about $12 sending it in (with all the postal tracking and such.) =

About 2 weeks = AFTER I confirmed they received it, I sent another email.  = Nothing.

Then, I get an = invoice for the shipping of the new tool to me for $8 about 4 days = later.  I pay it within an hour of getting it.

About a week = later, I get a message saying they received my payment and will be = shipping out the replacement.  Now, this was about mid Dec.  = So I hoped they would get it in the mail sooner before the = holidays.

Nope, they = waited until the new year to ship it.  Since the place is only = about 4 hours away from me in PA, it only took 2 days to get it.  = So I now have my new SK breaker bar.

Note, in all = my emails to them I expressed how much I loved SK tools, and how I = relied on my breaker bar and how I would have to buy a cheap one to use = in the meantime if it was going to take a while to replace. =

In the end, I = am not at all happy.  American tool companies used to be worth the = extra price.  However, I know that if I had a cheap Home Depot = Rigid one and walked into a store with it broken, I would walk out with = a new one.

The other = thing is that I had to pay the shipping BOTH WAYS.  Really?  = If they didn't like the photos I sent, they could have paid for the = shipping one way at least!  I mean, $20 isn't going to break me, = but it is a drop in the bucket for a company that charges a MAJOR = premium for tools.  And to have me without a tool for over 3 = months!  I mean if I was making my living with their tools, I would = have been starving.

I will NO = LONGER buy SK tools.    I hope they are happy.  If any of = them break, I'm headed to a local Lowes and replacing them with their = house brands (they used to do that in the past at least.) =

Anyway, just = wanted to let all of you know what happened with the bar. =

Moose = _______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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------=_NextPart_000_254D_01DA4081.8B66CD20-- --===============7488695798499446887== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7488695798499446887==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 6 12:38:12 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0BAAA055E for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 12:38:12 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-a1p-077725.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.103.146.59]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31B79A055E for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 11:17:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-a1p-077049.sys.comcast.net ([96.103.145.227]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resqmta-a1p-077725.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id MAo4r96j24qyfMBEnrsXS6; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 18:17:37 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1704565057; bh=JqPhMjIVFr0CiRytzxr3AtUcv1PB4R+S2aNcKoB7rMk=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From:Xfinity-Spam-Result; b=z7GUvqApp2PMbY8Is8qeqtz47ERaZjR5nw8VQrZLKGKCnHIM3mY79R022rV+aBjXy fRUgSnKUH2aaUNqUuvtqFzLcgTY7kYqfsooBM/r3hzV/8ETBMHnJ9kfjuCqGEio8X+ ZeuohkDZnBXZOD9GeSTPeTbKXhMtgseIfF/XNrbKm2flUBxhJjXG16SrTBteqv8Iqd 2mkA5nwZNNmIYOUwCKcTrrSNZa8o4ZrnILQOUFTrnSBmwlwvan8AooW0twvQNmo9wH kvgxbnvUKBlgcTLpbg4Pkph1dpPAeSDqB8qndb+cQhcdWZDDJt0aShvIdi/yQz8v5u YLwbCEbjo3kmg== Received: from [192.168.1.119] ([104.153.206.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resomta-a1p-077049.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id MBERr3LfNAyyRMBESrSLJO; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 18:17:28 +0000 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 10:17:18 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: old dirtbeard References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> From: Bob Spidell Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============8777655405175990456== boundary="------------LrF9OnjmGuIDdufHRW0x2ZAm" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------LrF9OnjmGuIDdufHRW0x2ZAm Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You're quite welcome. I didn't even catch the 'made in USA;' I assumed it was German, what with 'Kompressor.' I needed a little less than a half-gallon. Since I don't know what was in the pump, and I didn't drain/clean it all that well I figure I'll run for a year or so, then change it out one more time then never again. bs On 1/6/2024 8:38 AM, old dirtbeard wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Wow, that sounds like good oil, US-made, and the price is great. > > Thank you. > > best, > > doug > > On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 8:25 AM Bob Spidell wrote: > > My late father had a 5HP, 60gal DeVilbiss he bought probably 30 or > more years ago; it gets light/medium duty on our ranch. He > probably changed the oil a couple times but not in the last 10 > years or so that I know of. The motor cooked a while back--after a > large painting job--and I installed a new one with a new belt, and > changed out the oil. I did a lot of 'shopping,' but was mostly > considering price. These days, synthetic is often the same price > or even cheaper and I think by-and-large it's better oil (the old > tractors still get cheap mineral 10W-40, the Healeys get Valvoline > 20W-50 Racing and the Mustang gets Ford's ubiquitous 5W-20 > semi-syn; free from the dealer). I settled on this: > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1UZMJJOVEC3U&th=1 > > > I pumped the old oil out the top with a vacuum unit and didn't see > any evidence of sludge and, actually I wouldn't expect any since > you're not dealing with combustion byproducts. > > Bob > > On 1/5/2024 6:51 AM, Moose wrote: >> I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless >> since I got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they >> replaced it, free, right away.) >> >> Anyway.  I maybe let the oil go a little too long between >> changes, but when I went to change it this time, the oil was >> filled with sludge. >> >> I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever.  >> It was a pain to clean it out. >> In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can >> understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil.  >> No alternatives or specs >> >> The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you >> have to fill out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a >> few days later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.) >> >> Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I >> wanted to find out if  can get the same (or better) oil from a >> place that is a little easier to deal with.  Ideally, I would >> love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring >> delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds me to change the oil. >> >> OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to >> change? >> >> Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that >> is easier to get and or better. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Moose > --------------LrF9OnjmGuIDdufHRW0x2ZAm Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You're quite welcome. I didn't even catch the 'made in USA;' I assumed it was German, what with 'Kompressor.'

I needed a little less than a half-gallon. Since I don't know what was in the pump, and I didn't drain/clean it all that well I figure I'll run for a year or so, then change it out one more time then never again.

bs


On 1/6/2024 8:38 AM, old dirtbeard wrote:
Hi Bob,

Wow, that sounds like good oil, US-made, and the price is great.

Thank you.

best,

doug

On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 8:25 AM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
My late father had a 5HP, 60gal DeVilbiss he bought probably 30 or more years ago; it gets light/medium duty on our ranch. He probably changed the oil a couple times but not in the last 10 years or so that I know of. The motor cooked a while back--after a large painting job--and I installed a new one with a new belt, and changed out the oil. I did a lot of 'shopping,' but was mostly considering price. These days, synthetic is often the same price or even cheaper and I think by-and-large it's better oil (the old tractors still get cheap mineral 10W-40, the Healeys get Valvoline 20W-50 Racing and the Mustang gets Ford's ubiquitous 5W-20 semi-syn; free from the dealer). I settled on this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1UZMJJOVEC3U&th=1

I pumped the old oil out the top with a vacuum unit and didn't see any evidence of sludge and, actually I wouldn't expect any since you're not dealing with combustion byproducts.

Bob

On 1/5/2024 6:51 AM, Moose wrote:
I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free, right away.)

Anyway.  I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge.

I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever.  It was a pain to clean it out.
In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil.  No alternatives or specs

The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fill out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.)

Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to find out if  can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little easier to deal with.  Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds me to change the oil.

OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change?

Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is easier to get and or better.

Thanks!

Moose
--------------LrF9OnjmGuIDdufHRW0x2ZAm-- --===============8777655405175990456== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8777655405175990456==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 6 12:53:07 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D0CA0548 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 12:53:07 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oa1-f47.google.com (unknown [209.85.160.47]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A67E2A0574 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 11:32:04 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oa1-f47.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-203fb334415so480086fac.2 for ; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 10:31:55 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704565915; x=1705170715; darn=autox.team.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=6u2xBmCJAQTJanrVGDe9TrVt4nalBNziuWdCjrHRhU4=; b=DMlf2Ka/cIgF+/uwRaD03Du9yJn11TulKVGArCPJHhwOKsWKEz9ivZ6nqFv7ZYYSZa s7dw901uD2mj3jqKM8wSz2fwBxrWcCWXNVypAa1qX4+PV1fcKLnPql1DYm4zmmvKrNyv r+TuO2K6KoepJQa4AZHlhYU8pj1qNLCd7nrVnVZbgjMtlOsB6vIifyx3TQrP+1h6vTG4 M3yX2qzWvSKPOTZj0msXIJmfEg1pspRCKuuH99Y1ooUJtV6tM9LoQcHLryElucvWc5qQ 6ZLfEAqZmmGdziJkWI51TcwMVMwdSneJZaF41equ8AwZw/xMcrtVici9ZdRgMSBgY9wg 1dcg== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704565915; x=1705170715; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=6u2xBmCJAQTJanrVGDe9TrVt4nalBNziuWdCjrHRhU4=; b=cx3MR+Nb21Z+IF6wDqjvKOr/8oidwOlEQFVmn12LwyUpoSOT7fVqG6ZbFPaLBxIcOW V8PK8uX+9/Gb3XKGxebLyfOWV0MzNVtfNNFs/qzbgrw5U4ByCbDzZXXzCdEcBbJq9BCD RoBtR61alH+wlYACmZJ21WwSOxkn8+eOaWsZWhLqmL+9Bv1p3rZ5oatMgmVENrstN+hc uVfwJHEmohmwJPolXtcRM/l7RN+22r3wYv9ZDKJlK5xtJyWBDlS7JCQc2d3UuafKisNu SeM9z/MhLO3+VNn5onnQkD+hjLKwWyG9uB/Ql/PKKD0u0qH3gLSbT77wRtf93KKUda0i 0i1Q== KjLBz4p9bSXSMMd+VaaZxptUXx12sR2n64T/duw= a33-20020a056870d62100b002047f0d246cmr1647282oaq.3.1704565914634; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 10:31:54 -0800 (PST) References: <254c01da40c4$99881150$cc9833f0$@gmail.com> From: old dirtbeard Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 10:31:43 -0800 To: alfuller194@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] SK breaker bar Saga (the final update) Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1757267906682196320== --000000000000d68e75060e4b2d8a Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My guess is that they look to fill the specs (e.g., caster wheel rated at X lbs.) and procure based upon price. I wrote a lengthy, factual assessment comparing the previous "made in USA lift" to the current "assembled in USA lift" detailing where the newer one fell short. I did like the ramp and wheel chock design on the newer one better, and I told them that as well. We will see if they respond. On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 9:20=E2=80=AFAM wrote: > Yes, it IS sad to see well respected brands decline in quality! > > > > Re: =E2=80=9CAlthough the core Backyard Buddy lift is still made in the U= S of US > steel, many of the ancillary components now are imported and it only says > "assembled in USA" instead of "made in USA." The substituted imported par= ts > are not up to the quality of the Backyard sold by Steel City. =E2=80=9C > > > > I have to assume the domestic companies ARE getting what they are orderin= g > from the foreign suppliers, raising the question of why are they either [= 1] > specifying lower quality, or [2] specifying higher quality but accepting > lesser goods? > > > > ----------------------------------- > > All the best, > > > > Al Fuller > > > > *From:* Shop-talk *On Behalf Of *old > dirtbeard > *Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2024 4:27 PM > *To:* eric@megageek.com > *Cc:* Shop-talk@autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] SK breaker bar Saga (the final update) > > > > I am very sorry to hear this, Moose. I too have been a loyal SK customer > for over 50 years. I have a very larage collection of tools from them. > > > > I know that they were purchased in 2021 by Hangzhou GreatStar Industrial, > a Chinese conglomerate. I believe that some/most of the manufacturing is > still done here, but it is no longer an American company. > > > > For new purchases I believe Proto and Wright still are US-made and owned, > but things changs. > > > > I bought a Backyard Buddy 4-post automotive lift in 2019 that was > wonderful. It was made by Steel Valley Lifts. I ordered another one last > month, but now it is owned by Advantage Lifts which sells imported lifts = as > well. > > > > Although the core Backyard Buddy lift is still made in the US of US steel= , > many of the ancillary components now are imported and it only says > "assembled in USA" instead of "made in USA." The substituted imported par= ts > are not up to the quality of the Backyard sold by Steel City. > > > > I truly hate to see this degradation of quality happen to really good > American tool companies. I guess I am just glad that I have most of the > tools now that I will ever need. > > > > best, > > > > doug > > > > On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 2:16=E2=80=AFPM wrote: > > Well, in Oct, my SK breaker bar broke. > I couldn't find any phone numbers or anything, just a website to fill out > some info. > > After putting in a claim for the "breaker bar repair kit", I waited almos= t > a month, nothing. Then I posted here and others expressed their > dissatisfaction with SK as well. > > I finally found an email and sent them one asking if they received my > claim. They stated that they did not have it. > > I resubmitted it, waited 2 days and emailed again. Again, they said they > didn't have it. > > Then about a day later, they sent me an email stated they DID have it, bu= t > they didn't see it because the email address (I have no idea what that > meant.) > > But they also said that I would have to send them the broken tool in for = a > replacement, since the kit wasn't available. > > So I spend about $12 sending it in (with all the postal tracking and such= .) > > About 2 weeks AFTER I confirmed they received it, I sent another email. > Nothing. > > Then, I get an invoice for the shipping of the new tool to me for $8 abou= t > 4 days later. I pay it within an hour of getting it. > > About a week later, I get a message saying they received my payment and > will be shipping out the replacement. Now, this was about mid Dec. So I > hoped they would get it in the mail sooner before the holidays. > > Nope, they waited until the new year to ship it. Since the place is only > about 4 hours away from me in PA, it only took 2 days to get it. So I no= w > have my new SK breaker bar. > > Note, in all my emails to them I expressed how much I loved SK tools, and > how I relied on my breaker bar and how I would have to buy a cheap one to > use in the meantime if it was going to take a while to replace. > > In the end, I am not at all happy. American tool companies used to be > worth the extra price. However, I know that if I had a cheap Home Depot > Rigid one and walked into a store with it broken, I would walk out with a > new one. > > The other thing is that I had to pay the shipping BOTH WAYS. Really? If > they didn't like the photos I sent, they could have paid for the shipping > one way at least! I mean, $20 isn't going to break me, but it is a drop = in > the bucket for a company that charges a MAJOR premium for tools. And to > have me without a tool for over 3 months! I mean if I was making my livi= ng > with their tools, I would have been starving. > > I will NO LONGER buy SK tools. I hope they are happy. If any of them > break, I'm headed to a local Lowes and replacing them with their house > brands (they used to do that in the past at least.) > > Anyway, just wanted to let all of you know what happened with the bar. > > Moose _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com > > --000000000000d68e75060e4b2d8a Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My = guess is that they look to fill the specs (e.g., caster wheel rated at X lb= s.) and procure based upon price. I wrote=C2=A0a lengthy, factual assessmen= t comparing the previous "made in USA lift" to the current "= assembled=C2=A0in USA lift" detailing where the newer one fell short.= =C2=A0

I did like the ram= p and wheel chock design on the newer one better, and I told them that as w= ell.

=
We will see if they = respond.


On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 9:20=E2=80=AFAM <alfuller194@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, it IS sad to see well respected brands d= ecline in quality!

=C2=A0=

Re: =E2=80=9C= Although the core Backyard Buddy lift is still made in the US of US steel, = many of the ancillary components now are imported and it only says "as= sembled in USA" instead of "made in USA." The substituted im= ported parts are not up to the quality of the Backyard sold by Steel City.= =C2=A0=E2=80=9C

=C2=A0

<= span style=3D"font-size:12pt">I have to assume the domestic companies ARE g= etting what they are ordering from the foreign suppliers, raising the quest= ion of why are they either [1] specifying lower quality, or [2] specifying = higher quality but accepting lesser goods?

=C2=A0

-------------= ----------------------

All the best= ,

=C2=A0

Al Fuller

=C2= =A0

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net&g= t; On Behalf Of old dirtbeard
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2= 024 4:27 PM
To: eric@megageek.com
Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] SK breaker bar Saga (the final update)

<= /div>

=C2=A0

I am very sorry to hear this, Moos= e. I too have been a loyal SK customer for over 50 years. I have a very lar= age collection of tools from them.

=C2=A0

I know that they were purchased in 2021 by=C2=A0Hangzhou GreatStar Industrial, a Chinese congl= omerate.=C2=A0=C2=A0I believe=C2=A0th= at some/most of the manufacturing is still done here, but it is no longer a= n American company.

=C2=A0

For new purchases=C2=A0I believe Proto and Wright still ar= e US-made and owned, but things changs.

=

=C2=A0

I bought a Backyard Buddy 4-post autom= otive lift in 2019 that was wonderful. It was made by Steel Valley Lifts. I= ordered another one last month, but now it is owned by Advantage Lifts whi= ch sells imported lifts as well.=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0

Although the core Backyard Buddy lift i= s still made in the US of US steel, many of the ancillary components now ar= e imported and it only says "assembled in USA" instead of "m= ade in USA." The substituted imported parts are not up to the quality = of the Backyard sold by Steel City.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I truly hate to see this degradation= of quality happen to really good American tool companies. I guess I am jus= t glad that I have most of the tools now that I will ever need.

=C2=A0

best,

=C2=A0

<= /div>

doug=

=C2=A0

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 2:16=E2=80=AFPM &= lt;eric@megageek.com= > wrote:

Well, in Oct, my SK breaker bar broke. =C2=A0
I couldn&= #39;t find any phone numbers or anything, just a website to fill out some i= nfo.

After putting in a claim for the "breaker bar repair kit", I= waited almost a month, nothing.=C2=A0 Then I posted here and others expres= sed their dissatisfaction with SK as well.

I finally found an email and sen= t them one asking if they received my claim.=C2=A0 They stated that they di= d not have it.

I resubmitted it, waited 2 days and emailed again.=C2=A0 Aga= in, they said they didn't have it.

Then about a day later, they sent me= an email stated they DID have it, but they didn't see it because the e= mail address (I have no idea what that meant.)

But they also said that I = would have to send them the broken tool in for a replacement, since the kit= wasn't available.

So I spend about $12 sending it in (with all the pos= tal tracking and such.)

About 2 weeks AFTER I confirmed they received it, I= sent another email.=C2=A0 Nothing.

Then, I get an invoice for the shipping= of the new tool to me for $8 about 4 days later.=C2=A0 I pay it within an = hour of getting it.

About a week later, I get a message saying they receive= d my payment and will be shipping out the replacement.=C2=A0 Now, this was = about mid Dec.=C2=A0 So I hoped they would get it in the mail sooner before= the holidays.

Nope, they waited until the new year to ship it.=C2=A0 Since= the place is only about 4 hours away from me in PA, it only took 2 days to= get it.=C2=A0 So I now have my new SK breaker bar.

Note, in all my emails = to them I expressed how much I loved SK tools, and how I relied on my break= er bar and how I would have to buy a cheap one to use in the meantime if it= was going to take a while to replace.

In the end, I am not at all happy.= =C2=A0 American tool companies used to be worth the extra price.=C2=A0 Howe= ver, I know that if I had a cheap Home Depot Rigid one and walked into a st= ore with it broken, I would walk out with a new one.

The other thing is tha= t I had to pay the shipping BOTH WAYS.=C2=A0 Really?=C2=A0 If they didn'= ;t like the photos I sent, they could have paid for the shipping one way at= least!=C2=A0 I mean, $20 isn't going to break me, but it is a drop in = the bucket for a company that charges a MAJOR premium for tools.=C2=A0 And = to have me without a tool for over 3 months!=C2=A0 I mean if I was making m= y living with their tools, I would have been starving.

I will NO LONGER buy= SK tools. =C2=A0 =C2=A0I hope they are happy.=C2=A0 If any of them break, = I'm headed to a local Lowes and replacing them with their house brands = (they used to do that in the past at least.)

Anyway, just wanted to let all= of you know what happened with the bar.

Moose _____________________= __________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.= html
Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.n= et/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbe= ard@gmail.com

--000000000000d68e75060e4b2d8a-- --===============1757267906682196320== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1757267906682196320==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 6 13:23:38 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39753A0540 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 13:23:38 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from NAM10-BN7-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (unknown [40.92.40.105]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FEE5A0551 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 11:47:35 -0700 (MST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=J/mwKtklbS7l1uunFDbCEocxontHOZ4hsn7ssXQvuiWx+XW0PnNT0rvLpAZAKdeJyOuc+dhkr4iO8pgXnC+MN9ilBGnSeQ0EPA3getrECOTiskRUdh76yYHOdzLAWsleveJKTfEJp9N4CeGk8A2XmwkTm4pZ+bjHb3EGm/e585V4FhUWj6OTk8p2hSdlPLQmSqQTYU9abgkJAx9ujedbN1QRH9Y5ckU/SBl1Y8+7ccR7jCutoORqepyZFAz7mivjSS8yLntzCgRzxTTRB+slv0x3XNrttC7Gvnc03zNrisgUdWt8atY9Vb/jqDY40/HxYOVLKc2qYqVM8GFn0nuKTQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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Sat, 6 Jan 2024 18:47:24 +0000 Received: from CH3PR11MB8093.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4de8:c957:62c2:506a]) by CH3PR11MB8093.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4de8:c957:62c2:506a%3]) with mapi id 15.20.7159.018; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 18:47:24 +0000 From: Jack Brooks To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil Thread-Index: AQHaQHcnnvZ+9XdMdEyvOZ5DYxl/BbDNHcsA Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 18:47:02 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 18:46:55 +0000 References: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-tmn: [FFw2iRnqSsOgrscS8q3nnsBkEvY7Xrjp] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CH3PR11MB8093:EE_|SJ0PR11MB6742:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 88ec33bd-ed7a-403e-6f84-08dc0ee7ec08 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?3NeK/1/AQmrnWdDVwbBdh7JEE8Za4sIaG0ng8ek8XC5/nAjFAv7Ma2+qcwNv?= =?us-ascii?Q?eeHvhpvpmBoYKzJqG477PGntK0dkgoQAqbzAUqF3/M7rP+pl/k70taHQXEsC?= =?us-ascii?Q?mqULrZgukaQXmxf3GfjlGIWOxPcJCg6jRmdiX9Mt6JlfKNhcZMJPEgDrKVTT?= =?us-ascii?Q?N62oZVX45Psd/RjlIKAa3J4MfCXxqIqDml6H4o2rngJVszj5Yzsn24W5HPKS?= =?us-ascii?Q?jd0sNU/CfJ9uHRg2BYY6kZufQGUUQ4arHCj/TBcbSKfUxJOwYJOn0MI9mnAM?= =?us-ascii?Q?/HVe5tTsJ5g+LOniugCc8fYo7pk6oY7Tr44S7i1AoWb6o9ZeeYsIm1y9iGxw?= =?us-ascii?Q?1aUTrgbfzg8t9K16jDxdnaafnJtcPgMDL21hEaAmz3YjaMARjZsJJSIza2lU?= =?us-ascii?Q?IG6+aGl2yinO7IywQe6avpiZ1wBelkgkuYM9NZ4afMYkcifJkX93Ex8DhXXa?= =?us-ascii?Q?7PqLtemw2/bPI7OrIvEjhMGYoflExAi1eoBiw+RgEuvl1P8+hFsXkJ9q5TrG?= =?us-ascii?Q?7zWOHRAjzLXLAsdBWghIyzXVo/V4BjU93F0oAknql9jQ6mj7SUqwjSr04Kla?= =?us-ascii?Q?TY/4b+p0gmythrsFDVV9Vy1AGvKI20vae/A2SER+Vi9+tj511aKTvWCcgVJI?= =?us-ascii?Q?YQz2aVlo66CXOjZmynG+TaJF+R7eSTtG+0Cd6AIbOEIIZaYqikz83WGWnSM7?= =?us-ascii?Q?5jPaBP8HqcmMqDtNsbxwPPX+gPAhFIm9o9wYZGQimmnaiHUY1pOJDfe/3F0w?= =?us-ascii?Q?QOujtygUVZ2YSEeTByF5UWfKsZOQ07TDNLcKmOiDZ/AWszGvUQs5CxQigG39?= =?us-ascii?Q?Hs7e8h+jtPhfDNH5ADUpjR7btexf12Kmx4zyXYCjueHFAOeKLWrtnzMEVj+L?= =?us-ascii?Q?1++oaW0t4XPCbFE84cOiHCisvAQeZ4YXkJvGeR8VmZPRGHVdWWrpz87bfSXL?= =?us-ascii?Q?uv1dUqCE7F5FLMpXkr71qTB0qLvW3TrqTk5HkIGjksfTWrqnYMd+OJLMD7d/?= =?us-ascii?Q?Clbcg6l9XgeCOGk+9OkQKIQ+TgsO34AlxlHu5yQe8ePUBb9AMjXjLAFHcEAf?= =?us-ascii?Q?kj0p4Oecma2EYWXe7JbIkcZwkHGrNdOVbHGwSp4po8vbPw2i309pLDOd+iZJ?= =?us-ascii?Q?1Acb5rup6RAVAe9Yd/5WRpP1o5T0K+CYlo+Q3DkppghiBF8JE8hg8qrE7v7B?= =?us-ascii?Q?s0t56tahxmb0lOTwIDcPgrOxS+mWoIqY836X6w=3D=3D?= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0977175493020195435== Content-Language: en-US boundary="_000_CH3PR11MB809381BB5631AF0838ED4B37A8652CH3PR11MB8093namp_" --_000_CH3PR11MB809381BB5631AF0838ED4B37A8652CH3PR11MB8093namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Moose, Uh-Oh, I've been using Mobil 1 full synthetic automotive oil in my typicall= y lightly used 5HP compressor for about 20 years, changing it very irregula= rly. I did run the compressor with the tank valve wide open for a few hour= s with mineral oil for break-in first, before draining and switching to the= synthetic (a typical automotive practice). I'm more concerned about the t= ank rusting through than I am the compressor's life. Sludge buildup is a surprise to me. Is it possible your sludge issue is no= t related to the type of oil, but perhaps a condensation issue? Jack From: Shop-talk On Behalf Of Moose Sent: Friday, January 5, 2024 6:52 AM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got i= t (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free, rig= ht away.) Anyway. I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but when= I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge. I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever. It was a p= ain to clean it out. In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand tha= t.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil. No alternatives or specs The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fill = out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then pa= y the invoice and wait for them to ship it.) Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to find = out if can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little easi= er to deal with. Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on Amazon a= nd set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds me to c= hange the oil. OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change? Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is easier= to get and or better. Thanks! Moose --_000_CH3PR11MB809381BB5631AF0838ED4B37A8652CH3PR11MB8093namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Moose,

 

Uh-Oh, I’ve been using Mobil= 1 full synthetic automotive oil in my typically lightly used 5HP compresso= r for about 20 years, changing it very irregularly.  I did run the compressor with the tank valve wide open for a few hours wit= h mineral oil for break-in first, before draining and switching to the synt= hetic (a typical automotive practice).  I’m more concerned about= the tank rusting through than I am the compressor’s life. 

 

Sludge buildup is a surprise to me= .  Is it possible your sludge issue is not related to the type of oil,= but perhaps a condensation issue?

 

Jack

 

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.t= eam.net> On Behalf Of Moose
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2024 6:52 AM
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil

 

I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been = flawless since I got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they = replaced it, free, right away.)

A= nyway.  I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but = when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge.

I= use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever.  It was= a pain to clean it out.
I= n the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand that= .) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil.  No alternatives or s= pecs

T= he problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fill o= ut a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then pay= the invoice and wait for them to ship it.)

D= on't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to find o= ut if  can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little = easier to deal with.  Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 = months so it reminds me to change the oil.

O= R, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change?

A= gain, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is easier = to get and or better.

T= hanks!

M= oose

--_000_CH3PR11MB809381BB5631AF0838ED4B37A8652CH3PR11MB8093namp_-- --===============0977175493020195435== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0977175493020195435==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 6 15:22:36 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71A75A0548 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 15:22:36 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [34.199.103.79]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08812A0319 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 13:31:51 -0700 (MST) References: To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent From: Moose Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 15:31:42 -0500 01/06/2024 03:31:42 PM, Serialize complete at 01/06/2024 03:31:42 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jimmie@sackheads.org) by chumdrop.sackheads.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 97355155101 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 16:21:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 16:21:50 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Content-Language: en-US From: Jimmie Mayfield Subject: [Shop-talk] More air compressor talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net The recent thread about air compressor oil has reminded me about some behavior I'm seeing with my 25gal Craftsman Professional compressor. As I recall, there were two variants of this compressor...mine is the horizontal version with separate motor and pump. Motor is wired for 120V. For years, I used the guy on a 15A circuit. Maybe 10 years ago, I installed a 120/20A circuit for some woodworking tools and I started plugging the compressor into that. Last fall, I tried to run the compressor on the old 15A circuit with about 100psi in the tank and it wouldn't turn over -- tripped the breaker. Removed the belt and the motor started fine. So I figured the start capacitor is probably going bad and the 20A circuit can still push enough power through the start windings to get things spinning. Neither of my multimeters can measure capacitance that high so I couldn't test test them. Caps are cheap low-hanging fruit so I replaced both last weekend. The compressor now starts on the 15A circuit but it grunts for a second or two before it comes up to speed. So it's an improvement but definitely not the behavior I remember from years ago. Maybe the unloader valve is also going bad? It hisses when the compressor shuts off but maybe it's not fully relieving the pressure? Is there a way to test this? Any other ideas? J _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 6 19:15:52 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DB46A022F for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 19:15:52 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-40134.protonmail.ch (unknown [185.70.40.134]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B73FDA056D for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 16:38:14 -0700 (MST) s=protonmail3; t=1704584283; x=1704843483; bh=mDByx5okBpgHk73dzz8Ggip8Em5BYLoGI9V8CvrYMI0=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=nPIyzQoTir3WB5PudUxCGjHITaiZz9whrZmUvIWvC/Cx1hqCI4bZ2f/dZdFVMfs5F g36IHOdH2CJOulfe7dWu0AJIlsKBLmwBeRCOXCN5V/lgbZzdiKeBX1AhnMKsE+K3j2 WvoI2Ttu+hE/6SnnXHxxUss5FGrsvMpjvHy3LzaUlS2hr1pJrxI1Zrjad8sA+VeGuf FtkjLpdVVpzJoIiENmukE3Sdw9PaT+LIMOaDIAO993+ccxUhAb1gG9oUtu2E7bsRIm w1nKKf6y21f1fU6IYcWlI0/Zs9hu3xZMpDA9I2s5BXsxF2cO0vCuPNqbgwcao80rZO 2eYXcWBYOsa8Q== Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2024 23:37:52 +0000 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: Donald H Locker References: Feedback-ID: 21814894:user:proton Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============7235297589526263885== boundary="b1_YyYpWNDiwaQ2zBIjxps2LeItvkJcvEJ1iiHQNZzeY" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --b1_YyYpWNDiwaQ2zBIjxps2LeItvkJcvEJ1iiHQNZzeY Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhlIHB1cnBvc2Ugb2YgZGV0ZXJnZW50IGluIGF1dG9tb3RpdmUgb2lscyBpcyB0byBrZWVwIHBh cnRpY2xlcyBzdXNwZW5kZWQgc28gdGhhdCB0aGV5IGNhbiBiZSByZW1vdmVkIHdoZW4gdGhlIG9p bCBpcyBwdW1wZWQgdGhyb3VnaCB0aGUgZmlsdGVyLiBJZiB0aGVyZSBpcyBubyBmaWx0ZXIsIHRo 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Sat, 6 Jan 2024 17:16:21 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oo1-f41.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-59827210160so347021eaf.1 for ; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 16:16:12 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704586571; x=1705191371; darn=autox.team.net; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=QhhNpVaJzjR0/RU2vl1gkEztGcqGHCvHo7+RrA0Ti7g=; b=Flu5tA61gDYYdowbSXVSeUt2cIVO8WE/+S4RgIjapc+58aPJwcMMlZ/Z/JbdKCMMCh v99L4rVi6R8mBvflE6dDfQGONiD12nerWXbbP0ST3nF6dZMECf89sV1+H+bZKgzgaOgL WS6Oxqq6jFL1ZxXJyENSSkMygEPLALoN0/J99DeIH5KNo83T4tQwRz9k7a94bXV/gNwM N5OxVpxrL2UB/s7/xZGqcJt68eRCxXpvljsIc47gAlT4Dh19E+gRhBo/zghOEr6sBXcF mgB9mTfI65ELDJCLhIgssUwgsXXPGawzda0TYBNFgtywW6WPO85CN74enCNX+mRptpxN xb4A== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704586571; x=1705191371; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=QhhNpVaJzjR0/RU2vl1gkEztGcqGHCvHo7+RrA0Ti7g=; b=PvX09x8ljFNRfcN6jw0+yDTi2UDWoP8f8qcbswvWJB/leSMMP1nMcYx89YXokQiD3p zQaKuAA8fLaXnD7r8yd3IfIWQyTi0xt45mociWhlud6qJ7vI2U72Q6RfpSCp+dTli6h9 oARId6OjOYeErfY8uTkAnLVvI4Ew539uXOvXyIK3/E9MK+JIjEi3mOr/CvVdU2ZYJrOR pWjjoTwVKOAGofgJW5pnGnMrV2Pip0GmC/4jI/ossL3RQ29HcJjJIqOB+KjBZobiqO/Q +QbE6tP87jR5TB+m/bm4MNDT6To0S6ToRWQ7sJZYiOJ0o5wdmCqoa15DpewUGoCyVMoR 3UHw== imtInp2ElZ1C9TeJsd2CTKwPDOgdsQ== y18-20020a4acb92000000b005981e5e954bmr1009938ooq.0.1704586570764; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 16:16:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2600:380:5638:829e:2455:46ae:5d5a:9c2e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 7-20020a4a0907000000b00594de953d67sm1064119ooa.35.2024.01.06.16.16.10 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 06 Jan 2024 16:16:10 -0800 (PST) From: David Scheidt Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 17:15:58 -0700 References: To: old dirtbeard Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8289332526500575637== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-40289777-3C02-48FE-AA6D-80AA0CB6844F charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Jan 6, 2024, at 09:00, old dirtbeard wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > HI Moose, >=20 > Surprised to hear that there was sludge in the oil when you drained it; I h= ave not experienced that when changing my oil. >=20 > I also thank you for posting this message as it reminded me that I have no= t changed the oil in my compressor for a long time and need to look for oil.= =20 >=20 > I saw this Quincy article on compressor oil options, but it does sound lik= e compressor oil mainly needs to be non-detergent to eliminate carbon build-= up (I never could understand why automotive engine oil would create carbon i= n a compressor which I have to believe runs at a much lower temperature than= a compressor, but that is their statement), but also: Detergent oil keeps debris is suspension so it can be removed by the filter.= If you don=E2=80=99t have a filter (and compressors don=E2=80=99t), you wan= t a non detergent oil, so the debris can settle into the crank.=20 I strongly suspect moose=E2=80=99s sludge is a by product of condensation an= d short run time that doesn=E2=80=99t get the oil hot enough to drive it out= .=20 Frankly, compressors are low load, and modern oils so good, any compressor o= il is good enough. If the manufacturer makes it hard to buy from them, I tak= e that as a sign they don=E2=80=99t want my money, and spend it elsewhere. I= t=E2=80=99s the third decade of the 21st century, if they don=E2=80=99t have= a way to buy with a credit card, well, they clearly aren=E2=80=99t interest= ed in selling anything.=20 --Apple-Mail-40289777-3C02-48FE-AA6D-80AA0CB6844F charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Jan 6, 2024, at 09:= 00, old dirtbeard <dirtbeard@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
HI Moose,

Surprised to hear that there was sludge in the oil w= hen you drained it; I have not experienced that when changing my oil.
<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"">
I also thank you for posting this message as it reminded me tha= t I have not changed the oil in my compressor for a long time and need to lo= ok for oil. 

I saw this Quincy article on compressor= oil options, but it does sound like compressor oil mainly needs to be non-d= etergent to eliminate carbon build-up (I never could understand why automoti= ve engine oil would create carbon in a compressor which I have to belie= ve runs at a much lower temperature than a compressor, but that is= their statement), but also:

De= tergent oil keeps debris is suspension so it can be removed by the filter. I= f you don=E2=80=99t have a filter (and compressors don=E2=80=99t), you want a= non detergent oil, so the debris can settle into the crank. 

<= /div>
I strongly suspect moose=E2=80=99s sludge is a by product of conde= nsation and short run time that doesn=E2=80=99t get the oil hot enough to dr= ive it out. 

Frankly, compressors are low load= , and modern oils so good, any compressor oil is good enough. If the manufac= turer makes it hard to buy from them, I take that as a sign they don=E2=80=99= t want my money, and spend it elsewhere.  It=E2=80=99s the third decade= of the 21st century, if they don=E2=80=99t have a way to buy with a credit c= ard, well, they clearly aren=E2=80=99t interested in selling anything. =


= --Apple-Mail-40289777-3C02-48FE-AA6D-80AA0CB6844F-- --===============8289332526500575637== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8289332526500575637==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 7 09:10:07 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 097B2A0576 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2024 09:10:07 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from hognose1.porkbun.com (unknown [35.82.102.206]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 202BEA01DB for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2024 08:50:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (pool-108-20-234-105.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [108.20.234.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by hognose1.porkbun.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B0D5A44901 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2024 15:50:34 +0000 (UTC) s=default; t=1704642637; bh=Y9imNalOMZ840gDcPsLUvVYaXWP0MFtNwSfWv/VGjhE=; h=From:Subject:Date:To; b=IJ249eSPQd85Pve7luI5RfkvYa/nQxDuwMZ5caJXY0rTILjIdaCL8yKs2N2lYtb+8 fuxBpxDrUspNJgMe8dDLMM2Wfhn0kdF8FOa3/D6FbcQk0EGfRrNk1UpFSwChlqhi6u l3C6yqIGvHqaGd3NSxM1fHuVA5c1UPs548bWWxK0= From: Jim Franklin Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 10:50:23 -0500 To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Quick start fasdtener collection? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net 2 years ago I sold my house and moved overseas, giving away my 25 year collection of assorted fateners. Now I need it back :-) Other than asking the local classifieds/freecycle, any thoughts on how to amass a collection quickly? Yesterday I paid $1 each for M8 pan head screws to mount a TV and today I discovered the old washers are permanently affixed to the old short screws and I don't have any washers . thanks, jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 7 10:02:46 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67599A0540 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2024 10:02:46 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oa1-f50.google.com (unknown [209.85.160.50]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97278A0371 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2024 09:24:55 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oa1-f50.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2046b2cd2d3so1230600fac.0 for ; Sun, 07 Jan 2024 08:24:46 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704644686; x=1705249486; darn=autox.team.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=sxViLxxLr5PWQoIpg+rWlE7H5bviN3HeAiLMUKPQt4E=; b=G9UbZ+ionLoOcf3qCupDQPnzi2VTVSYQU83G7/KeIpehr6VlldAuSxBez+BtG9yZpv pnifVYTSig2ls2rVpUJ697ojjVDEjCmVxvk+L3PM02DJVZqdY/3o1JAh4jTNMvDpms/A MLPmLAmbkn+T1r1iW4763HayPJu8myI2vasEfvIIwzuPtn1UJxVMln1WC69dqNBUCwTv 2ev0PRn0vxI6vUf6RlszD3zMgDyfSUrhImbMP1cCHnmhNLUgqXqBVcnmQrHNxlJbeLim 5/xAtpAw4u5xVSn9xE/YrwC2llMLRJM5cpHrIUdSMHEiE+z4iC1rl9uyb3UqceiXdL9v 0cUA== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704644686; x=1705249486; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=sxViLxxLr5PWQoIpg+rWlE7H5bviN3HeAiLMUKPQt4E=; b=bdtj6xwxlJJex4id5Vg+BGkoYfEKEkXqlyp9D164P1u0PNpmmSZxH1wll8jVcXh5O/ D191cp2Kcz23kogKk4h4uYYPrKoFscyrw7J3Z+gNWiDLbNu81A7OKTtyn2ICluihrg5Y 4lu0bO91yUI45R/hHrSrXb0xORU5g0/xzGpW+IlWqbk+ZO1Sh6+D61b9K/gg93RZYau1 xzoVyeesPMYmz7MH/EqvOqk6wVOY7oDiCiWDWwGDN5yXiRjeqjx/ko7nVJIpJOvwlY4H XeiL1OwoNXCuyl3G7GCiojyrh22VgXwkh7+peYMVQM4VR4QypuSBMOlL6VSF203TFeZU yUXg== FwipR0bogfwzH8L+oJr0Rm7slVD7yW1PTaEFXr6yH/hrSGY= vs1-20020a056871a10100b00203fb78bc20mr4159985oab.51.1704644685465; Sun, 07 Jan 2024 08:24:45 -0800 (PST) References: From: old dirtbeard Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 08:24:34 -0800 To: Jim Franklin Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Quick start fasdtener collection? Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3772873460047352684== --000000000000f20cf7060e5d84ac Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I bought a couple of these collections in metal boxes years ago and am truly glad that I did. One is a machine screw, nut, washer set, the other was a general maintenance set. McMaster-Carr On Sun, Jan 7, 2024 at 8:13=E2=80=AFAM Jim Franklin wrote: > 2 years ago I sold my house and moved overseas, giving away my 25 year > collection of assorted fateners. Now I need it back :-) Other than aski= ng > the local classifieds/freecycle, any thoughts on how to amass a collectio= n > quickly? Yesterday I paid $1 each for M8 pan head screws to mount a TV an= d > today I discovered the old washers are permanently affixed to the old sho= rt > screws and I don't have any washers . > > thanks, > jim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com > > --000000000000f20cf7060e5d84ac Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I b= ought a couple of these collections in metal boxes years ago and am truly g= lad that I did. One is a machine screw, nut, washer set, the other was a ge= neral=C2=A0maintenance set.
McMaster-Carr

On Sun, Jan 7, 2024 at 8:13=E2=80=AFAM Ji= m Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench= .org> wrote:
2 years ago I sold my house and moved overseas, giving away my 25 year = collection of assorted fateners. Now I need it back :-)=C2=A0 =C2=A0Other t= han asking the local classifieds/freecycle, any thoughts on how to amass a = collection quickly? Yesterday I paid $1 each for M8 pan head screws to moun= t a TV and today I discovered the old washers are permanently affixed to th= e old short screws and I don't have any washers <hangs head>.

thanks,
jim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/dirtbeard@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com

--000000000000f20cf7060e5d84ac-- --===============3772873460047352684== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3772873460047352684==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 7 10:39:25 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FE9CA05B9 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2024 10:39:25 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-lj1-f179.google.com (unknown [209.85.208.179]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A5DEA05A7 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2024 10:32:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-lj1-f179.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2cc7b9281d1so12831561fa.1 for ; Sun, 07 Jan 2024 09:32:47 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704648766; x=1705253566; darn=autox.team.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=g5YjYJ6AYx+C/hnmotSONAux7GcyoqPyp/KbVDSC0ew=; b=hn1S8qXlieTl98lPjjxAk/uZgQF13WRf91Bbio7CdPHbjdZtydP2lcd5f0RVR0kj7H MDq1WbHcN44QsS3Vzm4WSyTD01nvaFKqEHbdrgkigXCBZbNLORSb+9Xphpec+y+2dXgo 6hYsQXku/pLFS3M1mdyLJfY02OBlUcyBD0hYLGr1fTMYcFBJx3V+jYQSoe0nZUoWkQeE L7518L/FuWCkvubz0Cn9yAmAjlKuw7ZfAvXbE1JAKWlmdHXEBIUO1T3Nysvk5qUA+Lad Hw3PnBzU528wu0JYBYkLrVeg2gCTPfAqQhU9AHII76DnNgQDOlnODIeEyrqYYUfJaH26 VrEQ== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704648766; x=1705253566; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=g5YjYJ6AYx+C/hnmotSONAux7GcyoqPyp/KbVDSC0ew=; b=eoKpPn5d1jQ+CVAkqBknw+Lc+TwctQbBFfUXbYT/pHi9oPQT6pL0bJeGE4++vd+RLj QQ0EnKB4NnYHEnbHiWxJiFgb2OrSQF26Bhi7VqO6BPIQQYBk6nrPFqjzlU8cwYjLqBTe cshCbCtxXxQkuv91o1KFnBMVPm4PniI9siptQlRqlOIN8IFl5A445po2nx9Vukbf0hPe JGc7lG9kIJ2jMK4wCaCDDkmIF8Z6FJthLx8miLn+LN9sAT6NeI4H5B+PQTMhsfuM1jh3 nNMoXnYqJrsfTOSvxrFwaHVSd9LZAOhT/87BntKnFudAV0Jdet9HkQwIEG0mgSPgBXzl a93g== KXuuTeagCKjOzVj0xTcjLSSvsELMUu/lRLBCbYo= z8-20020a2ebe08000000b002cd551935c3mr216099ljq.87.1704648766202; Sun, 07 Jan 2024 09:32:46 -0800 (PST) References: From: Benjamin Zwissler Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 12:32:34 -0500 To: Jim Franklin Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Quick start fasdtener collection? Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7939484915340473287== --0000000000002d267a060e5e784b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I see collections like that come up pretty regularly on my Facebook marketplace feed. Sometimes it's the hardware style bins and sometimes just someone's home collection, old coffee cans and cigar boxes included. I also used to see stuff at estate auctions but those don't happen so often around me anymore. Ben On Sun, Jan 7, 2024, 11:13=E2=80=AFAM Jim Franklin = wrote: > 2 years ago I sold my house and moved overseas, giving away my 25 year > collection of assorted fateners. Now I need it back :-) Other than aski= ng > the local classifieds/freecycle, any thoughts on how to amass a collectio= n > quickly? Yesterday I paid $1 each for M8 pan head screws to mount a TV an= d > today I discovered the old washers are permanently affixed to the old sho= rt > screws and I don't have any washers . > > thanks, > jim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjzwissler@gmail.com > > --0000000000002d267a060e5e784b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I see collections like that come up pretty regularly on m= y Facebook marketplace feed.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Sometimes it's the hardware st= yle bins and sometimes just someone's home collection,=C2=A0 old coffee= cans and cigar boxes included.=C2=A0

I also used to see stuff at estate auctions but those don't h= appen so often around me anymore.=C2=A0

Ben

On Sun, Jan 7, 2024, 11:13=E2=80=AFAM Jim Franklin= <jamesf@groupwbench.org&g= t; wrote:
2 years ago I sold my hou= se and moved overseas, giving away my 25 year collection of assorted fatene= rs. Now I need it back :-)=C2=A0 =C2=A0Other than asking the local classifi= eds/freecycle, any thoughts on how to amass a collection quickly? Yesterday= I paid $1 each for M8 pan head screws to mount a TV and today I discovered= the old washers are permanently affixed to the old short screws and I don&= #39;t have any washers <hangs head>.

thanks,
jim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
errer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

alk/bjzwissler@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">h= ttp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjzwissler@gmail.com

--0000000000002d267a060e5e784b-- --===============7939484915340473287== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7939484915340473287==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 7 11:31:22 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2680CA0537 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2024 11:31:22 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-a1p-077435.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.103.146.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27D23A051C for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2024 11:06:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-a1p-077059.sys.comcast.net ([96.103.145.240]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resqmta-a1p-077435.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id MWr4r0ZQsoSbTMXXirEqyr; Sun, 07 Jan 2024 18:06:38 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1704650798; bh=TpOvko9+wVpIrp4ixUD48v+t/p6P/S8FDczOhu1guXY=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From:Xfinity-Spam-Result; b=pQcJx+WnZrH6OsRsLp7xZ0oP04dBH2A8Yokc+K1OcaJI84gcbX2utUED4IMADHlNw qYmkEYD1Ps+84JGXVe9Iyo++ZCr3uw5ROVvQkVP6Bsefmb8Oxl8v9MSgSKZp4clyUu XMQLMVzh/d0XSQyOmT2gZVeh4hUBvfm9svvpHwRryxjESbglRyaSzqxQaY4ZxL+PJt KIQDGQR2owi57UL9BiwaPkDOc8kSa6bPu/QCdOEuGTrezr/gn3xRiYj476fMbIvVeD ODI7tV+OfSo4YJjOJuX1/nq+gRn+LuGM8q1kTVn8W7Rl5NmiHCHSm558P+tHEzkz9n K+Uy88hPFPTLg== Received: from [192.168.1.119] ([104.153.206.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resomta-a1p-077059.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id MXXErGypRJ4qtMXXFrFEZS; Sun, 07 Jan 2024 18:06:14 +0000 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 10:06:12 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: From: Bob Spidell Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Quick start fasdtener collection? Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============8947912160074241890== boundary="------------cgRMQEtjDuhIlMTv7OrAJoSS" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------cgRMQEtjDuhIlMTv7OrAJoSS Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've got a whole stack of 'assortments' I've bought at Harbor Freight and big box stores, including screws, grommets, cotters, O-rings, connectors, zerks, you name it. Quality may be suspect--even 'name' brands are often sourced from you-know-where anyway--but, in a pinch, they'll save you from an unnecessary trip to the hardware store. The one thing I try to avoid, except in trivial applications, is electrical connectors; the best ones, I've found, are at boating supply houses. https://www.harborfreight.com/57-piece-stainless-steel-machine-screw-kit-67675.html On 1/7/2024 9:32 AM, Benjamin Zwissler wrote: > I see collections like that come up pretty regularly on my Facebook > marketplace feed.   Sometimes it's the hardware style bins and > sometimes just someone's home collection,  old coffee cans and cigar > boxes included. > > I also used to see stuff at estate auctions but those don't happen so > often around me anymore. > > Ben > > On Sun, Jan 7, 2024, 11:13 AM Jim Franklin wrote: > > 2 years ago I sold my house and moved overseas, giving away my 25 > year collection of assorted fateners. Now I need it back :-)  >  Other than asking the local classifieds/freecycle, any thoughts > on how to amass a collection quickly? Yesterday I paid $1 each for > M8 pan head screws to mount a TV and today I discovered the old > washers are permanently affixed to the old short screws and I > don't have any washers . > > thanks, > jim > --------------cgRMQEtjDuhIlMTv7OrAJoSS Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've got a whole stack of 'assortments' I've bought at Harbor Freight and big box stores, including screws, grommets, cotters, O-rings, connectors, zerks, you name it. Quality may be suspect--even 'name' brands are often sourced from you-know-where anyway--but, in a pinch, they'll save you from an unnecessary trip to the hardware store. The one thing I try to avoid, except in trivial applications, is electrical connectors; the best ones, I've found, are at boating supply houses.

https://www.harborfreight.com/57-piece-stainless-steel-machine-screw-kit-67675.html


On 1/7/2024 9:32 AM, Benjamin Zwissler wrote:
I see collections like that come up pretty regularly on my Facebook marketplace feed.   Sometimes it's the hardware style bins and sometimes just someone's home collection,  old coffee cans and cigar boxes included. 

I also used to see stuff at estate auctions but those don't happen so often around me anymore. 

Ben

On Sun, Jan 7, 2024, 11:13 AM Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org> wrote:
2 years ago I sold my house and moved overseas, giving away my 25 year collection of assorted fateners. Now I need it back :-)   Other than asking the local classifieds/freecycle, any thoughts on how to amass a collection quickly? Yesterday I paid $1 each for M8 pan head screws to mount a TV and today I discovered the old washers are permanently affixed to the old short screws and I don't have any washers <hangs head>.

thanks,
jim
--------------cgRMQEtjDuhIlMTv7OrAJoSS-- --===============8947912160074241890== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8947912160074241890==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 7 11:47:48 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6F0CA0578 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2024 11:47:48 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-a1p-077720.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.103.146.54]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3340DA051C for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2024 11:07:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-a1p-076783.sys.comcast.net ([96.103.145.231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resqmta-a1p-077720.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id MWVzr1TcyeCAJMXYXrk5h5; Sun, 07 Jan 2024 18:07:29 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1704650849; bh=i7bqyoBbgo7nXGhwHYuEAghmSk+1RtEKtceQQ8z+itk=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From:Xfinity-Spam-Result; b=a0KNHNdwtj2VwbUxVAABkbr03OXWI2PEfdvM7G1GPgKfq0YWdymmy6VcHIQQO0wfC BgAOJDcL5umrWcMv5p2xJXmVIhPK5qdwbCelWFVXbj2xRzzBB7IxjfOTGHYupgG7A8 U7GggVI6jz/RnPzNxebu4QAutxpGsHw7UJwE6P8mIthpQUJbgdVSzNHzEQE9afoGX1 1DwWeF2QqgOnpOOSBJ5K5EkUHxMdF0mZnG9Vb4CT3RDCcJWSaHErSJU0zUwgge34L/ Jr17USnladOUDUjWCHTDYHI5IMXZeiRvx7qDmTVaVStgXZgUQk7fSIfL5AR4AEy7E8 ZM+YalgDrSpuw== Received: from [192.168.1.119] ([104.153.206.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resomta-a1p-076783.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id MXYPrkDtsiBGVMXYQrRr0Y; Sun, 07 Jan 2024 18:07:27 +0000 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 10:07:25 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: From: Bob Spidell Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Quick start fasdtener collection? Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============2078173431594215520== boundary="------------wOdb0ublikRWPy3Ti296PEfo" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------wOdb0ublikRWPy3Ti296PEfo Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ps. Before buying off a FB link, do a search on the product; you'll usually find them MUCH cheaper elsewhere. On 1/7/2024 9:32 AM, Benjamin Zwissler wrote: > I see collections like that come up pretty regularly on my Facebook > marketplace feed.   Sometimes it's the hardware style bins and > sometimes just someone's home collection,  old coffee cans and cigar > boxes included. > > I also used to see stuff at estate auctions but those don't happen so > often around me anymore. > > Ben > > On Sun, Jan 7, 2024, 11:13 AM Jim Franklin wrote: > > 2 years ago I sold my house and moved overseas, giving away my 25 > year collection of assorted fateners. Now I need it back :-)  >  Other than asking the local classifieds/freecycle, any thoughts > on how to amass a collection quickly? Yesterday I paid $1 each for > M8 pan head screws to mount a TV and today I discovered the old > washers are permanently affixed to the old short screws and I > don't have any washers . > > thanks, > jim > --------------wOdb0ublikRWPy3Ti296PEfo Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ps. Before buying off a FB link, do a search on the product; you'll usually find them MUCH cheaper elsewhere.

On 1/7/2024 9:32 AM, Benjamin Zwissler wrote:
I see collections like that come up pretty regularly on my Facebook marketplace feed.   Sometimes it's the hardware style bins and sometimes just someone's home collection,  old coffee cans and cigar boxes included. 

I also used to see stuff at estate auctions but those don't happen so often around me anymore. 

Ben

On Sun, Jan 7, 2024, 11:13 AM Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org> wrote:
2 years ago I sold my house and moved overseas, giving away my 25 year collection of assorted fateners. Now I need it back :-)   Other than asking the local classifieds/freecycle, any thoughts on how to amass a collection quickly? Yesterday I paid $1 each for M8 pan head screws to mount a TV and today I discovered the old washers are permanently affixed to the old short screws and I don't have any washers <hangs head>.

thanks,
jim
--------------wOdb0ublikRWPy3Ti296PEfo-- --===============2078173431594215520== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2078173431594215520==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 7 15:17:33 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 365FDA0621 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2024 15:17:33 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from chumdrop.sackheads.org (unknown [159.203.76.21]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2278A0576 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2024 14:22:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chumdrop.sackheads.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0C3B158735 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2024 16:22:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from chumdrop.sackheads.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (chumdrop.sackheads.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 71KoJ3FPalct for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2024 16:22:02 -0500 (EST) s=2022-US; t=1704662522; bh=lmcEq5krETohyG+aIw/ePdV0+Qcz85PQzsYLKrINHl4=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=f7/XUvkJrltBn66n8Pi6CmvYg41RvFbpEPstbOsV6QWgPEtivwIWvce9wDlOs2Dqu X/mdUhFByA2UeSFHEg8Fk+Qv/0EU5naZ+PBLKlTJMQIhSDESIaCFn0A92tmH3lKTBh xpAKPm25yRvxA3B7m34/oM/RboFrT7l7DEGSermmBicENyrVapgezANhI3cfdz5R7/ qFVYxyupSM/a54o2EpeFYsMMztHqlTBbj2wlQGqD1uTIn0ZRg1ITQyTII3TSFvcqOu lAvVZlN0TKoRjARqVaD4oIEtXkeZk+n25lTiTC4a0BActOwVX0M5jsKK9BMaoVvQtb RJ3qkhP0PITpw== Received: from [10.0.1.32] (024-209-025-219.res.spectrum.com [24.209.25.219]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jimmie@sackheads.org) by chumdrop.sackheads.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 649601586F7 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2024 16:22:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 16:22:01 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: From: Jimmie Mayfield Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Quick start fasdtener collection? Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net T24gMS83LzI0IDEwOjUwLCBKaW0gRnJhbmtsaW4gd3JvdGU6Cj4gMiB5ZWFycyBhZ28gSSBzb2xk IG15IGhvdXNlIGFuZCBtb3ZlZCBvdmVyc2VhcywgZ2l2aW5nIGF3YXkgbXkgMjUgeWVhciBjb2xs ZWN0aW9uIG9mIGFzc29ydGVkIGZhdGVuZXJzLiBOb3cgSSBuZWVkIGl0IGJhY2sgOi0pICAgT3Ro ZXIgdGhhbiBhc2tpbmcgdGhlIGxvY2FsIGNsYXNzaWZpZWRzL2ZyZWVjeWNsZSwgYW55IHRob3Vn aHRzIG9uIGhvdyB0byBhbWFzcyBhIGNvbGxlY3Rpb24gcXVpY2tseT8gWWVzdGVyZGF5IEkgcGFp ZCAkMSBlYWNoIGZvciBNOCBwYW4gaGVhZCBzY3Jld3MgdG8gbW91bnQgYSBUViBhbmQgdG9kYXkg SSBkaXNjb3ZlcmVkIHRoZSBvbGQgd2FzaGVycyBhcmUgcGVybWFuZW50bHkgYWZmaXhlZCB0byB0 aGUgb2xkIHNob3J0IHNjcmV3cyBhbmQgSSBkb24ndCBoYXZlIGFueSB3YXNoZXJzIDxoYW5ncyBo ZWFkPi4KCkkgdXN1YWxseSBidXkgYXNzb3J0bWVudHMgZnJvbSBBbWF6b24uwqAgU3RhaW5sZXNz IGJvbHRzL251dHMsIG55bG9jayAKbnV0cywgd2FzaGVycywgYXV0b21vdGl2ZSBjbGlwcywgTy1y aW5ncy4uLiBJdCdzIGEgcXVpY2sgd2F5IHRvIGJ1aWxkIHVwIAphIGRlY2VudCBjb2xsZWN0aW9u IHRvIGhhdmUgb24gaGFuZC7CoCBJJ2QgdXNlIE1jTWFzdGVyIGZvciBzb21ldGhpbmcgCnRoYXQg bmVlZHMgdG8gYmUgaGlnaC1zdHJlbmd0aCBidXQgZm9yIG5vcm1hbCB1c2UgY2FzZXMsIEFtYXpv biBzZWVtcyAKZmluZS7CoCBJIHJlcGxhY2VkIGFsbCB0aGUgYm9sdHMgYW5kIHNjcmV3cyBvbiBt eSBzbm93Ymxvd2VyIGhvdXNpbmcgd2l0aCAKc3RhaW5sZXNzIHZlcnNpb25zIGZyb20gdGhlc2Ug YXNzb3J0bWVudHMgNi03IHllYXJzIGFnbyBhbmQgdGhleSdyZSAKc3RpbGwgaW4gZ29vZCBzaGFw ZS4KCkoKCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwoK U2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25h dGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJjaGl2ZTogaHR0cDov L3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9waXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9h cmNoaXZlCgpVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWlsbWFu L29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10YWxrL21oYXJjQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cgo= From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 9 23:31:59 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 382B7A0C9B for ; 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Wed, 10 Jan 2024 04:03:28 +0000 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 04:03:24 +0000 (UTC) From: Dwade Reinsch To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0990475603733063571== boundary="----=_Part_11096259_1166068055.1704859404854" ------=_Part_11096259_1166068055.1704859404854 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for gra= nddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front se= at.=C2=A0 Had the radio and inside lights on.=C2=A0 When she finished and c= ame out, car would not start.=C2=A0 Completely dead.=C2=A0 Electric seat wo= uld not come back to driving position, etc. Here's the question:=C2=A0 In the old days a weak battery would give notice= by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.=C2=A0 This is the car I drive re= gularly and it gave NO warning.=C2=A0 Luckily, I could call son-in-law and = he came to help.=C2=A0 Would not start with good set of booster cables.=C2= =A0 Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting= to start.=C2=A0 So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull batt= ery, get a replacement, and move the van home. Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before bein= g stranded?=C2=A0 (Battery is about 4 years old.) Thanks,Dwade ------=_Part_11096259_1166068055.1704859404854 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This afternoon I was sitting= in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theate= r activity and I went to sleep in the front seat.  Had the radio and i= nside lights on.  When she finished and came out, car would not start.=   Completely dead.  Electric seat would not come back to driving = position, etc.

Here's the question:  In the old days= a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.=   This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.  Luck= ily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.  Would not start wit= h good set of booster cables.  Would not start with 15 minutes of char= ging on cables before attempting to start.  So in the morning I'll tak= e pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van ho= me.

Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a faili= ng battery before being stranded?  (Battery is about 4 years old.)

Thanks,
Dwade
------=_Part_11096259_1166068055.1704859404854-- --===============0990475603733063571== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0990475603733063571==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 10 05:49:36 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7969A0D9E for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 05:49:36 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic302-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (unknown [66.163.186.147]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7703A0362 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 05:25:23 -0700 (MST) t=1704889513; bh=0122DhwtMXv2Z1ngwAIAtnIcNk/+Q42AhCSg711IgK4=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=cgENjp4s1HftpG0vu3NxjI3H330x9DgKOrt4cssr0nDgSjywxF0hkX/dO7vgdXenoDQAB8ytSBXSHjaxQyM16Gx+/CvPgebUmF9rm64Ag/uUPifFYgBYbwP+LaugYtvpCQ1bbmiOgrWNEcYw2/1ZBzSUQFW/fAi2deFUYGhbx0W08fA44eJ0H3OZocmXITdgjFGtkFenm0XkkPAAIS7pmMBgTainE7/iq1fGkIM0IhmpxS5GZz06r59w5XUK+fkWXBa0CKsD9iFDo1rZOS3S7oHVQMqrZ9vCJypjIqzXI8UFDFV1doPYHFanY5dJqCWf+L1gP4xqZFlRDrfurKwdiQ== t=1704889513; bh=r9MfhiDmeaqnufP5R+sUShzVXV9RFq9dWktBxsgbz7r=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=Q9wN493fMI5hLBEaR46gi6ZL4wFHT5tMLbEv3o8yz/qwIEQl+gyUVzA9WJpv/soGzAsF5DvZBw+EU9vXR8fYXbpHTAUfhbAQAEqFfHE9NKGIVzdE5SzMGkH+INKAf2clwUsEvyRpATBsxG41IU2tcX4zcjQu6Bn3oMgQXx2q5fP+bmqbU7U5z78IOi/jp9ZZbR14NiA+k4ZaElYEJOL12A7tkKdPKMbFM+DZQGkJQQ49VLEmljMTSIH+rm90/zcifXG+Eyu263ezJezLJ2kbVsDQupDx+72xfn/wYokkjhZ2jCsI1RZd72PmY08cJiyuuK2GxsDY8SExlQV/0ie49w== bj9HfogtgxqSAgiBcdO3tx6v0QPqhQWSxCOkBykc77iqS8jPGtqfheB_WQ62Z7Us6prd4W2aKGmA AVZ.h6MAz4gme_OvtEuuSZGf2yR9RKLAjMqDup1hNwDZzitZyBcfWzyWRJXs63CpUh0MRtPisUSW WM1jMNkr6Hz4COyJjg8TAPzMswwz1eS2YYbPqjEDdBveDyzgLFhMJh7kCZoyxJbsxoR4t.50S8ca kaS4VLp5jlIzkBX7texnRKIkBHxI7G0D1L5p_DpcToHfuyQY9PXrMrOK04_h7gHAGFh.tfPf_29Q 1b3OLkr5gsoD7OA_wSx0UTv59lIgt5U8VlT5Ym4xDaCwFlJH6u4DQsJsGgkBRy27bFKCf_3pg35n iCyI1JACrYjhn8Na1ZayiliHZfTHLerctftteiuKDLIbTbhct8prb1U_vNAATgcJwEwo6T9hXawu q0OpRSWPPqvxrdjgbmiukUDLZcyoJYm9Hq1vQqDl.iKcvlDwaeX7DmiC.Z3t6Hih9v4Mkr4O5uc6 X1zcMv2JQd2QmtuWJC8davZa5lBcDecJePfNZkNcwo2lJI4xJ7U0QvrGozZpdFx03IawzorWu525 Gy9Z8AG0Tvq77YU1Y98Vm_REZmhqMbdZDOXP0X_SbLT3JlWBRLuwJHbGhunzjOHlm3VLXnm0Mzlk VqsAtgi7UnkgBz5RuH9DwWxbpt4dNhIjU4cyU3MUDhCRlClvINuxvsW7pqV.lVT8lif5pkclKreX 5sxJ.QlTbi6tPLeSwRWC7kk498oXmx9b2G1aXRwR2cTByG.jLzt6Udx3qIrp9xhyldjVuBuIg3JH ed0spHsKWNC0nCbcUDn7StkIpL5MHtin2G04Gm95AfhJlW.KeXTds6ogwDr4i40mg8T1yaiJavM4 YAw7PaaBH6qVnSqhXsFucTtNbavoyFr7U3i1fw8QTTyN2q1VNnJlyAgiS5rfcQ2KeG3bJ5QBc3W9 sMK93NK0huL.ugASLB.CIR5JgQx.SSd3TK7BBJGbfrp5zzjeIjtbv5_9V8HxSBVWB9s7aWOHJ0Q5 kwNJOIi05HpIRG6BZtn6PLVcArjnoUlnbZj_vohZFP193k3QGEi_vCjGIp0V62GTDksf215KSciB NMJjk58PEHU9v8jpHO9iYVgzk3TVm9V2IgPImTF7sEvgnIe5UZV4Jsame4GOqq8JZyVb9rzeQjFh gkNJEvJ3BzGqOPBVMIhklCeorM4doNSmoR0ZNcEvYRIGgN4x5ETH0oANsFTC4leOQ2UFFnZ9tdd6 Qj.4fo4g227JxtU.vecQ9kp6wNyJmeS43QU57dDM_H83Jz1LJMARce4cV8mEE_o0.AgxgFgPH.4V W.vT_YZymEUhA2uWnv.bTuPwmGvjcxsXhQb9G15UleWcziASvY7DTndvqaUWzNIzr_w1ZOBKcVwm CTUJ19ITOqVTE83qCWPYHJk5AYip4rgNL9XrhsIhg2BL10Ifz7Xfu3gmRhrjEl3Qgxz2fKkRe_kD 5ljZUPkb7lFtQjvtK.z.gePa1rSyKLypvgfxDZfmZUgLsbTe.KFacw9RiRtMbmyae8saA.UjNC1X IfZfgEcuF4cJu18qciXYU3ZCu6INnDUfi5h9ZB3JCtwuzM4NCXyJJf6DGan3h2oUGDhVX.BtZEZN PHdVelr8LP3o8EVd5d_8SsFWWYdqYFKSvweuwcw.Ej9KkuyYbkInGgylkGUJrnYkkt5km.47Q4Ba joPpagGgvNjJPyPIBOtqraLbytpeZNaO86bhUatOD8k_ztOevnAr_ZrJNcEVUV5sJqDhGBjUdbRF GOWSnEMYbGOGCUe1DOT8oLEUIVnvCPdLTyGDrA1ucxdkWO8M.nw.WRYiq.opmnG0.omcvrI7gabG E4P0rRIjTB3_9eEIkARuYOICkUOZUOKuiQ_TITF4iQTpzXN0Px5eTucVVjG0rpstmjkb0JNcR8Wg .Q1zKcuf_7STgOk6TkTaVStkn0AdNhnirSTGiqek5B8JP83kaxyF9sulFcZv7Ds3L6Pv979hhWsq PFX_30UlFVuIvKFPcpmpVNlQBgl8.YXUs5JYwQw8UjDQZg2pc0Dv566GJ2Kc2yfjtMRPqpuvi_vf mqVULxIB9QcnQEz21coWaSgo3y5uAcOLFYV3Ubtkz8H4jtLhJexlbObgaQ46PTA-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic302.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 12:25:13 +0000 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 12:25:10 +0000 (UTC) From: DAVID MASSEY To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" , Dwade Reinsch References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3846811795178134361== boundary="----=_Part_11186470_1701665076.1704889510404" ------=_Part_11186470_1701665076.1704889510404 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Depends on the failure mode.=C2=A0 Most batteries loose plate area and can = produce less current than when new and that is when the cranking slows down= .=C2=A0 These modern cars start so quickly that one may not notice that the= cranking speed is slower than normal.=C2=A0 That happened to me on my Fies= ta.=C2=A0 One day it seemed fine, the next it cranked over quite slowly and= the next day it wouldn't start.=C2=A0 Load testing will give ample warning= as the guys who changed my oil a few months before warned me my battery ca= pacity was low. On the other hand, it an internal link between the cells breaks loose the f= ailure will be instantaneous and there is no way to predict those.=C2=A0 If= your battery won't recharge it may be because of this failure.=C2=A0=20 Dave=20 =20 On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 12:35:42 AM CST, Dwade Reinsch wrote: =20 =20 This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for gr= anddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front s= eat.=C2=A0 Had the radio and inside lights on.=C2=A0 When she finished and = came out, car would not start.=C2=A0 Completely dead.=C2=A0 Electric seat w= ould not come back to driving position, etc. Here's the question:=C2=A0 In the old days a weak battery would give notice= by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.=C2=A0 This is the car I drive re= gularly and it gave NO warning.=C2=A0 Luckily, I could call son-in-law and = he came to help.=C2=A0 Would not start with good set of booster cables.=C2= =A0 Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting= to start.=C2=A0 So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull batt= ery, get a replacement, and move the van home. Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before bein= g stranded?=C2=A0 (Battery is about 4 years old.) Thanks,Dwade_______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive ssey@cs.com =20 ------=_Part_11186470_1701665076.1704889510404 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Depends on the failure mode.  Most batt= eries loose plate area and can produce less current than when new and that = is when the cranking slows down.  These modern cars start so quickly t= hat one may not notice that the cranking speed is slower than normal. = That happened to me on my Fiesta.  One day it seemed fine, the next i= t cranked over quite slowly and the next day it wouldn't start.  Load = testing will give ample warning as the guys who changed my oil a few months= before warned me my battery capacity was low.

On the= other hand, it an internal link between the cells breaks loose the failure= will be instantaneous and there is no way to predict those.  If your = battery won't recharge it may be because of this failure. 
<= div>
<= font size=3D"4">Dave




=20
=20
On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 12:35:42 AM CST, Dwad= e Reinsch <dreinsch@swbell.net> wrote:


This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Ody= ssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went = to sleep in the front seat.  Had the radio and inside lights on. = When she finished and came out, car would not start.  Completely dead= .  Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc.

Here's the questio= n:  In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowl= y, etc., before failing.  This is the car I drive regularly and it gav= e NO warning.  Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.&n= bsp; Would not start with good set of booster cables.  Would not start= with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.  So= in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacem= ent, and move the van home.

=
Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing ba= ttery before being stranded?  (Battery is about 4 years old.)

Thanks,
Dwade
------=_Part_11186470_1701665076.1704889510404-- --===============3846811795178134361== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3846811795178134361==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 10 07:00:09 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6447A0DA0 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 07:00:09 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ot1-f44.google.com (unknown [209.85.210.44]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A64CA0D1A for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 05:47:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ot1-f44.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-6ddef319fabso529158a34.1 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 04:47:26 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704890846; x=1705495646; darn=autox.team.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=HysmbTX/mOVijCYUVR5tZ1+mwwqE0gFMhUTBMZ6kOFE=; b=T9TWjFfvLKIjEcFyJJ4cF6meMTK7z+bv9YdfRqhOQfq/Q+R/RqGK2RgCZrVyEcFZTA RyzAPfTCjSUHXIyFY6DzjpvsUI9onXrN6dhdOdmCgW3etHnT332V1bZvmjtNCAXh92Ir rFJJNpg+XNK9ypKMk3loexoPn6ocdPwEPiivSgGQezyYv0iyAVscA3GnEQhROjgrgAxU JBxG3q2Mv5RNcllGd9i8uL1KTdeo+ySeT0jvXyPUFhHMnYrxXjc4aSke9XCHM6CsQ3vv XgOexoBub7pBzkdi6dkqR2W1XF3/vE5/CWW7LR6xUpioRxUjjXz1H0oTDHfNqZkVDw8d IfaA== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704890846; x=1705495646; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=HysmbTX/mOVijCYUVR5tZ1+mwwqE0gFMhUTBMZ6kOFE=; b=jL2pZK7x/ThihOh5L37U/gtd1qTRYLMR7XD0vGBzAS6aCJ3Sj1d6fbqYB1MuiVnIvp 6UboI0t9zcoccb8kvGYaxMVcB30OMt0dZ3ph2sLGg8fImnipwz40RkIyEcZu58YoQQNp rLkVLBI2u97R+5NQaKBt3D+gVvof0fWXGjLgCqSWquytrBfrWnNZ01esHpyvaBlCV8us BcvYIC+hROrm2zjE6CEzn2VFLpzLEW3nzM4R7DgMgSCC4UKvHwYjaB7KS8BWXGobDCzH +p7vO2lAftyIk0x+Ny2ZYQwBx0DrRjZZfega6FH1Vd7jFPYRctS3Mv3i3wjAoFS0mnEF zGBw== Guh9EPgSXR+Z+UKM4cU1VTBWdt4wWrNO+kKa4Ms= cz12-20020a056870648c00b002067684d6e2mr580985oab.30.1704890845888; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 04:47:25 -0800 (PST) References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> From: old dirtbeard Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 04:47:15 -0800 To: Dwade Reinsch Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8101939886307885660== --000000000000400693060e96d5db Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The newer cars are highly dependent upon sensor reads for the various computers and can/will act differently than the older analogue cars with dying batteries. It sounds like your battery may have shorted plates, perhaps due to sulfation or other mechanical causes, for such an abrupt failure to occur. I am curious, though, as to why your car would not start when jumped from a running vehicle. If you have a voltmeter on the dash it would be interesting to see what it shows with the key on, and then when you had the jump going. If you do not have a dash voltmeter, an OBDII reader may be able to show it for you. Good luck today with the battery replacement and you might wish to compare the voltage reading pre and post battery swaps. best, doug On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 10:39=E2=80=AFPM Dwade Reinsch = wrote: > This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for > granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the fro= nt > seat. Had the radio and inside lights on. When she finished and came ou= t, > car would not start. Completely dead. Electric seat would not come back > to driving position, etc. > > Here's the question: In the old days a weak battery would give notice by > cranking slowly, etc., before failing. This is the car I drive regularly > and it gave NO warning. Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to > help. Would not start with good set of booster cables. Would not start > with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start. So in > the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacemen= t, > and move the van home. > > Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before > being stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) > > Thanks, > Dwade > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com > > --000000000000400693060e96d5db Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The= newer cars are highly dependent upon sensor reads for the various computer= s and can/will act differently than the older analogue cars with dying batt= eries. It sounds like your battery may have shorted plates, perhaps due to = sulfation or other mechanical causes, for such an abrupt failure to occur.= =C2=A0

I am curious, thou= gh, as to why your car would not start when jumped from a running vehicle. = If you have a voltmeter on the dash it would be interesting to see what it = shows with the key on, and then when you had the jump going. If you do not = have a dash voltmeter, an OBDII reader may be able to show it for you.

Good luck today with the batt= ery replacement and you might wish to compare the voltage reading pre and p= ost battery swaps.

best,<= /div>

doug

On Tue, Jan 9, = 2024 at 10:39=E2=80=AFPM Dwade Reinsch <dreinsch@swbell.net> wrote:
This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Ody= ssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went = to sleep in the front seat.=C2=A0 Had the radio and inside lights on.=C2=A0= When she finished and came out, car would not start.=C2=A0 Completely dead= .=C2=A0 Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc.

Here's the question:=C2=A0 In= the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., be= fore failing.=C2=A0 This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warnin= g.=C2=A0 Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.=C2=A0 Would = not start with good set of booster cables.=C2=A0 Would not start with 15 mi= nutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.=C2=A0 So in the mor= ning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, an= d move the van home.

Does = anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being str= anded?=C2=A0 (Battery is about 4 years old.)

Thanks,
Dwade
___= ____________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/dirtbeard@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com

--000000000000400693060e96d5db-- --===============8101939886307885660== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8101939886307885660==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 10 07:32:51 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 147FCA0CBF for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 07:32:51 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pj1-f51.google.com (unknown [209.85.216.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7940FA04F1 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 06:19:53 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-pj1-f51.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2866b15b013so1115112a91.0 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 05:19:43 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704892783; x=1705497583; darn=autox.team.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=L8Mg8DZIUwqc6Lajih1TvOrGmMXobkWRRDpXhGEJ3Bc=; b=SmdIGnZ53Ipi3FUf1FcjbneAkfZ5AroPjVBwamQnzIMpolpomiEZmDlJwsot41v38o jZyympF+NzkEnsJN56+8mnz9rnUh7A68vGuLV8MEfHsfzhpK0PkXS/71whGtEOACpD7d 1GlHoSYS6MkQtuCtYUYm2wV2nsFp2MFscEKqanTXuUYlk7oOI2tgHKA4gUfaB0279fJ0 nOJQCEHCBfgEK8OV5HmJ7+T3mF6lNcAVjENCTzXe5NdV2uFzGCRaSU8yjl74nuLSHygD UM2LaJGBJ4kNLJzL9Y5bDuQ6FLv8PUGRgW32bNT5OQihigK1iBh1h6F+riJZ/QOZzmrn DBMQ== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704892783; x=1705497583; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=L8Mg8DZIUwqc6Lajih1TvOrGmMXobkWRRDpXhGEJ3Bc=; b=AJoEaDnX+7wSwPU976qvUBspG6c3euZFSEK+w9e/wQHHYxhGKxd1qYdudIvYwY+b2q +BJuLAV7bjvB7do35CTnfajMKcthVG/WJFZbGrvmwhfBZ7mMYThSZZiEaT0pTumKPHKb Hh3/0gV1P1QNuEGR56FZthyGjR0dNxIHADQ5MzofM65iGUeOWf2y/jLP7v35qV6hasLW +nt71Us5U4QLlVBTqxtUi5S+/rrwZsHSihOZKIjxHAbVkpKQhmvrw1yw4Z6A4DV8VFq5 HrPGw8HUfDMUzW88nmIE3pFs/Mr/uLyaaXSCG3VyxBE4uXAfy+phsgb7PsM6j5aUwB/m /iEw== GyYVETLku6qqUUk8rDdXUcA+zMDXJL1P9Pgdyw== cv3-20020a17090afd0300b0028cfe8caa93mr1579541pjb.1.1704892783002; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 05:19:43 -0800 (PST) References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> From: Ronnie Day Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 07:19:05 -0600 To: Dwade Reinsch Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7796332239848168962== --000000000000b609b2060e97488d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We have a '15 Odyssey EX-L that we bought used about 4 years ago and I just had to replace the battery in it for the second time. This time I went with a Duracell AGM ($150, IIRC) from Sam's, The previous battery was an old style lead acid from Wally World, bought because that was pretty much all that was available in the small town where we were at the time it quit on us. We live about 35 miles NW of Bryan/College Station in Central Texas and have only just begun to get occasional sub freezing weather, The old battery didn't give much indication that it was on the way out before it quit, and due to the battery location it's not easy to use a load tester to check it. As you discovered it's risky to sit and listen to the radio without the motor running. Been there...! As nice a vehicle as the Odyssey is, IMO it's too maintenance critical much beyond 100K. At least Honda uses a larger 24F battery in it instead of the smaller batteries we had in our Accords. It draws a LOT of power. The vehicle is basically a computer with wheels and a motor, seriously! And you have to be careful with maintenance on that motor. If you go past the 105K timing belt replacement recommendation, there's a very real risk of lunching the motor due to a broken belt. The cylinder deactivation setup, designed and included primarily to get that V-6 through the required emissions period from new, is known to probably cause excessive oil consumption on engines much past the 105K unless it's deactivated. Honda dealers get around $2500 to do the timing belt service, and then get another $500 to swap in new spark plugs! I also feel the vehicle is relatively hard on tires, even though I religiously have the tires rotated every 5K and keep a close eye on the air pressure. We bought the Odyssey instead of a CR-V for a couple reasons, but we haven't really needed the extra seats as often as we did when our grandkids were younger. Next summer we're planning to buy a used Civic (manual trans) or a Mazda 3 (manual or A/T) for use when it's just the two of us. I don't like CVTs, Mazda doesn't use them at all. Either car gets far better mileage than the low/mid 20s we get with the Odyssey, and this will extend the useful life of the Odyssey considerably. This info may not help other than to let you know your experience isn't unusual. RD On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 12:54=E2=80=AFAM Dwade Reinsch wrote: > This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for > granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the fro= nt > seat. Had the radio and inside lights on. When she finished and came ou= t, > car would not start. Completely dead. Electric seat would not come back > to driving position, etc. > > Here's the question: In the old days a weak battery would give notice by > cranking slowly, etc., before failing. This is the car I drive regularly > and it gave NO warning. Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to > help. Would not start with good set of booster cables. Would not start > with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start. So in > the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacemen= t, > and move the van home. > > Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before > being stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) > > Thanks, > Dwade > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com > > --000000000000b609b2060e97488d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We have a '15 Odyssey EX-L that=C2=A0we bought used ab= out 4 years ago and I just had to replace the battery in it for the second = time. This time I went with a Duracell AGM ($150, IIRC) from Sam's, The= previous battery was an old style lead acid from Wally World, bought becau= se that was pretty much all that was available in the small=C2=A0town where= we were at the time it=C2=A0quit on us. We live about 35 miles NW of Bryan= /College Station in Central Texas and have only just begun to get occasiona= l=C2=A0sub freezing=C2=A0weather, The old battery didn't give much indi= cation that it was on the way out before it quit, and due to the battery lo= cation it's not easy to use a load tester to check it. As you discovere= d it's risky to sit and listen to the radio without the motor running. = Been there...!

As nice a vehicle as the Odyssey is, IMO = it's too maintenance=C2=A0critical much beyond 100K. At least Honda use= s a larger 24F battery in it instead of the smaller batteries we had in our= Accords.=C2=A0 It draws a LOT of power. The vehicle is basically a compute= r with wheels and a motor, seriously! And you have to be careful with maint= enance on that motor. If you go past the 105K timing belt replacement recom= mendation, there's a very real risk of lunching=C2=A0the motor due to a= broken belt. The cylinder deactivation setup, designed and included primar= ily to get that V-6 through=C2=A0the required=C2=A0emissions=C2=A0period fr= om new, is known to probably cause excessive oil consumption on engines muc= h past the 105K unless it's deactivated. Honda dealers get around $2500= to do the timing belt service, and then get another $500 to swap in new sp= ark plugs! I also feel the vehicle=C2=A0is relatively hard on tires, even t= hough I religiously have the tires rotated=C2=A0every 5K and keep a close e= ye on the air pressure.

We bought the Odyssey inst= ead of a=C2=A0CR-V for a=C2=A0couple reasons, but we haven't really nee= ded=C2=A0the=C2=A0extra seats as often as we did=C2=A0when our grandkids we= re younger. Next summer we're planning=C2=A0to buy a used Civic (manual= trans) or a Mazda 3 (manual or A/T) for use when it's=C2=A0just the tw= o of us. I don't like CVTs, Mazda doesn't use them at all. Either c= ar gets far better mileage than the low/mid 20s we get with the Odyssey, an= d this will extend the useful life of the Odyssey considerably.
<= br>
This info may not help other=C2=A0than to let you know your e= xperience=C2=A0isn't unusual.=C2=A0

RD

=

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 12:54=E2=80=AFAM Dwade Reinsch <dreinsch@swbell.net> wrote:
This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Ody= ssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went = to sleep in the front seat.=C2=A0 Had the radio and inside lights on.=C2=A0= When she finished and came out, car would not start.=C2=A0 Completely dead= .=C2=A0 Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc.

Here's the question:=C2=A0 In= the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., be= fore failing.=C2=A0 This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warnin= g.=C2=A0 Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.=C2=A0 Would = not start with good set of booster cables.=C2=A0 Would not start with 15 mi= nutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.=C2=A0 So in the mor= ning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, an= d move the van home.

Does = anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being str= anded?=C2=A0 (Battery is about 4 years old.)

Thanks,
Dwade
___= ____________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/ronnie.day@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox= .team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com

--000000000000b609b2060e97488d-- --===============7796332239848168962== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7796332239848168962==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 10 07:51:32 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5E3CA0D94 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 07:51:32 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from ms11p00im-qufo17281801.me.com (unknown [17.58.38.55]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86D04A0D1D for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 06:38:01 -0700 (MST) s=1a1hai; t=1704893871; bh=zaDXcAM29NVYGE5XTHGct32ORKk3fTWC5bUa9SqjzLs=; h=Content-Type:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=ivHQ0DkAP//PYRvYTgnRB84IxTjtYX9tHXv/x1rFfb2CAa177ouu8ZxXmRmlwPql6 xpzEe+HqUA4jWQvTI4+E/m/1443SseoTn9qt96r2QUpzakBL9sRFbm0kc/RxF7Yo4E vRcwLFreYBIXaWaG7ws7lroGNcP8v6SuTKpgV5G2l3JKil02G6HDWIQWp+LgFYfEIo RbIycPwNTR6n7yRDkfogi7QLo6IXnkD+DsUlvfAui+vLm9gqT1FRhNZ6LcFvhljmWu o+C1zuFuEyvOj1Tv7yDpTT4IHTnVzoZwOp79UdPlciPreAiiOzH/fjJoa7yIBR2Qh1 LIQZGRdQvqUDw== Received: from smtpclient.apple (ms11p00im-dlb-asmtpmailmevip.me.com [17.57.154.19]) by ms11p00im-qufo17281801.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4B94BAC00A4; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 13:37:51 +0000 (UTC) From: Pat Horne Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 07:37:38 -0600 References: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> To: Dwade Reinsch engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.997,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2024-01-10_06,2024-01-10_01,2023-05-22_02 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2308100000 definitions=main-2401100112 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1621868673525741288== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-F44E242B-0592-42CC-8BF2-2CB7AF7DED00 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dwade, only times I=E2=80=99ve had similar problems was when the temperature= dropped to near freezing for the first time going into winter. I=E2=80=99ve= only had it happen when the car has been sitting cold for the night. Withou= t remembering to take the vehicle to get the battery checked when cold weath= er is coming, it=E2=80=99s just hit & miss.=20 One other thought though. My 2017 Camry draws a lot of power when the key is= on but the engine off. There is even a warning in the manual to have the en= gine running while programming the car from the LCD display. I disregarded t= hat warning for a 5 minute programming & the car barely started. Battery is g= ood & I=E2=80=99ve had no problem since. That was over a year ago.=20 Pat Horne=20 We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 10, 2024, at 12:55=E2=80=AFAM, Dwade Reinsch wr= ote: =EF=BB=BF This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for grand= daughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat.= Had the radio and inside lights on. When she finished and came out, car w= ould not start. Completely dead. Electric seat would not come back to driv= ing position, etc. Here's the question: In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cr= anking slowly, etc., before failing. This is the car I drive regularly and i= t gave NO warning. Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help. W= ould not start with good set of booster cables. Would not start with 15 min= utes of charging on cables before attempting to start. So in the morning I'= ll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the v= an home. Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being= stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) Thanks, Dwade _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi= ve as@icloud.com --Apple-Mail-F44E242B-0592-42CC-8BF2-2CB7AF7DED00 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dwade, only times I=E2=80=99ve had similar p= roblems was when the temperature dropped to near freezing for the first time= going into winter. I=E2=80=99ve only had it happen when the car has been si= tting cold for the night. Without remembering to take the vehicle to get the= battery checked when cold weather is coming, it=E2=80=99s just hit & mi= ss. 

One other thought though. My 2017 Camry draws a= lot of power when the key is on but the engine off. There is even a warning= in the manual to have the engine running while programming the car from the= LCD display. I disregarded that warning for a 5 minute programming & th= e car barely started. Battery is good & I=E2=80=99ve had no problem sinc= e. That was over a year ago. 

P= at Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Jan 10, 2024, at 12:55=E2=80=AFAM, Dwade Reinsch &l= t;dreinsch@swbell.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
This afternoon I was sitting i= n the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater a= ctivity and I went to sleep in the front seat.  Had the radio and insid= e lights on.  When she finished and came out, car would not start. = ; Completely dead.  Electric seat would not come back to driving positi= on, etc.

Here's the question:  In the old days a weak b= attery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.  Thi= s is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.  Luckily, I coul= d call son-in-law and he came to help.  Would not start with good set o= f booster cables.  Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cable= s before attempting to start.  So in the morning I'll take pickup and t= ools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home.

Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before= being stranded?  (Battery is about 4 years old.)

Than= ks,
Dwade
_____= __________________________________________

= Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.= html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
= Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi= ve

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.ne= t/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com
= --Apple-Mail-F44E242B-0592-42CC-8BF2-2CB7AF7DED00-- --===============1621868673525741288== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1621868673525741288==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 10 10:53:21 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783C7A0DD5 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:53:21 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-h1p-028587.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.102.200.11]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 570FEA0BFB for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 09:47:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-h1p-028509.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.179.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resqmta-h1p-028587.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id NYexrkakrI2r7NbjZrxQIx; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 16:47:17 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1704905237; bh=BULuDE0GOQO3aOneTKeLKpAE+JYRkWKjy/C62Y3JlBc=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From:Xfinity-Spam-Result; b=1OYNaq9h9Hbt/HyrvUotvh+lAoG5ewjjsPBoVilAIekPZrPR+2czeYMRMWvFmLLT4 Gd4mIIimT9H9YgaR2azi7uk1d3mCiMgvgZs8EjDdc0UptJxmyOujVAuoTweMow2TDr g/gckAiVMgVvQ51wWLo35BJVyxL8oEyk2Pb1slLPuEmb+yPskT0/Y79ygjrI4O4h/y DfP33ArZWbBCkx1v3TB594cOFsfj1Lm+MPZKGNEsQ5K6XYh69EHJk7Hj3krpdqaxkp mkUSEXAU6PgUENf5quNARYpuR+z6pGXHerGXO6rHTv9NWXhOqhXIRB9WuZGhvbtnC3 JqbKGFtLS8NnQ== Received: from [192.168.1.119] ([104.153.206.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resomta-h1p-028509.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id Nbj7r2AM9dbUbNbj8rwmLk; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 16:46:54 +0000 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 08:46:50 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> From: Bob Spidell Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============2517980201860623818== boundary="------------pC5DM2EFVK8RjqbBX9NiMuZP" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------pC5DM2EFVK8RjqbBX9NiMuZP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have 4 cars and a truck, two old tractors, a quad, a Gator and a riding lawnmower; I spend quite a bit of time dealing with batteries and electrical systems. Modern batteries, say, those built in the last 20 years or so, aren't generally built to last. Most of them are made by only a couple of companies, Johnson Controls being the largest, and most are now constructed in Mexico (I use a shop owned by a Hispanic man to rebuild my Britcar batteries and starters, and he told me Mexican batteries are 'crap;' he used to recommend Optima, but they were bought by JC (I think) and he quit recommending them). My '08 Mustang GT had two batteries die, with no warning, at almost exactly 3 years; both were 'Motorcraft' brand, but if you look close you could see 'Johnson Controls.' Besides failing with no warning, which I attribute to internal shorting as someone suggested, I have lots of issues with leaking, causing the terminals to corrode and a mess in your engine compartment. I think the poor quality is due to thinner lead plates--a rule-of-thumb I use is the heavier the battery the better the battery--and cases are flimsier and they just don't bother to get good seals around the terminals. I shudder to think of what the Mexican battery factories look like. The one battery brand that makes consistently good batteries is Deka, built by East Penn manufacturing in Pennsylvania (NFI). They source some of the common brands, like Duracell I think, and they seem to last. But, be careful, Napa, for instance, claims to get theirs from East Penn, but I bought one for my '19 Mustang the other day--yep, the OEM 'Motorcraft' leaked at 4 years, and I had to pull the whole box to clean it up--and the Napa had a 'Made in Korea' sticker on it; I'm not sure what to think (there is a Deka dealer on the far side of town; next time I make the drive). For the non-autos, I bought deep-cycle and starting batteries--both SLA--off Amazon with the brand 'Weizen;' they were among the cheapest but both have performed well and held up. I bought an 'X2 Power' AGM for one of the Healeys and it's been nails for over 6 years. Some of my vehicles have to sit for long periods; if so, I put them on a 'smart' charger (I like BatteryMinder, I've heard good things about BatteryTender). These will not only keep your battery topped-up without overcharging, but claim to perform a 'desulfation' cycle periodically, which I believe involves pulsing the battery with a higher voltage (I got one specifically for AGMs for the Healey battery; at $300+ I want it to last and not fail in the middle of nowhere). To answer OPs question, most dealers and shops these days use a battery tester in lieu of a load tester; they give a lot more info. I bought an even cheaper version of this one, but this one looks to have good quality clamps: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Z67MMGC/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A3EMYY4GBP2W2D&psc=1 Bob On 1/10/2024 5:19 AM, Ronnie Day wrote: > We have a '15 Odyssey EX-L that we bought used about 4 years ago and I > just had to replace the battery in it for the second time. This time I > went with a Duracell AGM ($150, IIRC) from Sam's, The previous battery > was an old style lead acid from Wally World, bought because that was > pretty much all that was available in the small town where we were at > the time it quit on us. We live about 35 miles NW of Bryan/College > Station in Central Texas and have only just begun to get > occasional sub freezing weather, The old battery didn't give much > indication that it was on the way out before it quit, and due to the > battery location it's not easy to use a load tester to check it. As > you discovered it's risky to sit and listen to the radio without the > motor running. Been there...! > > As nice a vehicle as the Odyssey is, IMO it's too maintenance critical > much beyond 100K. At least Honda uses a larger 24F battery in it > instead of the smaller batteries we had in our Accords.  It draws a > LOT of power. The vehicle is basically a computer with wheels and a > motor, seriously! And you have to be careful with maintenance on that > motor. If you go past the 105K timing belt replacement recommendation, > there's a very real risk of lunching the motor due to a broken belt. > The cylinder deactivation setup, designed and included primarily to > get that V-6 through the required emissions period from new, is known > to probably cause excessive oil consumption on engines much past the > 105K unless it's deactivated. Honda dealers get around $2500 to do the > timing belt service, and then get another $500 to swap in new spark > plugs! I also feel the vehicle is relatively hard on tires, even > though I religiously have the tires rotated every 5K and keep a close > eye on the air pressure. > > We bought the Odyssey instead of a CR-V for a couple reasons, but we > haven't really needed the extra seats as often as we did when our > grandkids were younger. Next summer we're planning to buy a used Civic > (manual trans) or a Mazda 3 (manual or A/T) for use when it's just the > two of us. I don't like CVTs, Mazda doesn't use them at all. Either > car gets far better mileage than the low/mid 20s we get with the > Odyssey, and this will extend the useful life of the Odyssey considerably. > > This info may not help other than to let you know your > experience isn't unusual. > > RD > > > > On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 12:54 AM Dwade Reinsch > wrote: > > This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting > for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep > in the front seat. Had the radio and inside lights on.  When she > finished and came out, car would not start.  Completely dead. > Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc. > > Here's the question:  In the old days a weak battery would give > notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.  This is the car > I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.  Luckily, I could call > son-in-law and he came to help.  Would not start with good set of > booster cables.  Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on > cables before attempting to start.  So in the morning I'll take > pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the > van home. > > Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery > before being stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) > > Thanks, > Dwade > --------------pC5DM2EFVK8RjqbBX9NiMuZP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have 4 cars and a truck, two old tractors, a quad, a Gator and a riding lawnmower; I spend quite a bit of time dealing with batteries and electrical systems. Modern batteries, say, those built in the last 20 years or so, aren't generally built to last. Most of them are made by only a couple of companies, Johnson Controls being the largest, and most are now constructed in Mexico (I use a shop owned by a Hispanic man to rebuild my Britcar batteries and starters, and he told me Mexican batteries are 'crap;' he used to recommend Optima, but they were bought by JC (I think) and he quit recommending them). My '08 Mustang GT had two batteries die, with no warning, at almost exactly 3 years; both were 'Motorcraft' brand, but if you look close you could see 'Johnson Controls.' Besides failing with no warning, which I attribute to internal shorting as someone suggested, I have lots of issues with leaking, causing the terminals to corrode and a mess in your engine compartment. I think the poor quality is due to thinner lead plates--a rule-of-thumb I use is the heavier the battery the better the battery--and cases are flimsier and they just don't bother to get good seals around the terminals. I shudder to think of what the Mexican battery factories look like.

The one battery brand that makes consistently good batteries is Deka, built by East Penn manufacturing in Pennsylvania (NFI). They source some of the common brands, like Duracell I think, and they seem to last. But, be careful, Napa, for instance, claims to get theirs from East Penn, but I bought one for my '19 Mustang the other day--yep, the OEM 'Motorcraft' leaked at 4 years, and I had to pull the whole box to clean it up--and the Napa had a 'Made in Korea' sticker on it; I'm not sure what to think (there is a Deka dealer on the far side of town; next time I make the drive). For the non-autos, I bought deep-cycle and starting batteries--both SLA--off Amazon with the brand 'Weizen;' they were among the cheapest but both have performed well and held up. I bought an 'X2 Power' AGM for one of the Healeys and it's been nails for over 6 years.

Some of my vehicles have to sit for long periods; if so, I put them on a 'smart' charger (I like BatteryMinder, I've heard good things about BatteryTender). These will not only keep your battery topped-up without overcharging, but claim to perform a 'desulfation' cycle periodically, which I believe involves pulsing the battery with a higher voltage (I got one specifically for AGMs for the Healey battery; at $300+ I want it to last and not fail in the middle of nowhere).

To answer OPs question, most dealers and shops these days use a battery tester in lieu of a load tester; they give a lot more info. I bought an even cheaper version of this one, but this one looks to have good quality clamps:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Z67MMGC/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A3EMYY4GBP2W2D&psc=1

Bob


On 1/10/2024 5:19 AM, Ronnie Day wrote:
We have a '15 Odyssey EX-L that we bought used about 4 years ago and I just had to replace the battery in it for the second time. This time I went with a Duracell AGM ($150, IIRC) from Sam's, The previous battery was an old style lead acid from Wally World, bought because that was pretty much all that was available in the small town where we were at the time it quit on us. We live about 35 miles NW of Bryan/College Station in Central Texas and have only just begun to get occasional sub freezing weather, The old battery didn't give much indication that it was on the way out before it quit, and due to the battery location it's not easy to use a load tester to check it. As you discovered it's risky to sit and listen to the radio without the motor running. Been there...!

As nice a vehicle as the Odyssey is, IMO it's too maintenance critical much beyond 100K. At least Honda uses a larger 24F battery in it instead of the smaller batteries we had in our Accords.  It draws a LOT of power. The vehicle is basically a computer with wheels and a motor, seriously! And you have to be careful with maintenance on that motor. If you go past the 105K timing belt replacement recommendation, there's a very real risk of lunching the motor due to a broken belt. The cylinder deactivation setup, designed and included primarily to get that V-6 through the required emissions period from new, is known to probably cause excessive oil consumption on engines much past the 105K unless it's deactivated. Honda dealers get around $2500 to do the timing belt service, and then get another $500 to swap in new spark plugs! I also feel the vehicle is relatively hard on tires, even though I religiously have the tires rotated every 5K and keep a close eye on the air pressure.

We bought the Odyssey instead of a CR-V for a couple reasons, but we haven't really needed the extra seats as often as we did when our grandkids were younger. Next summer we're planning to buy a used Civic (manual trans) or a Mazda 3 (manual or A/T) for use when it's just the two of us. I don't like CVTs, Mazda doesn't use them at all. Either car gets far better mileage than the low/mid 20s we get with the Odyssey, and this will extend the useful life of the Odyssey considerably.

This info may not help other than to let you know your experience isn't unusual. 

RD



On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 12:54 AM Dwade Reinsch <dreinsch@swbell.net> wrote:
This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat.  Had the radio and inside lights on.  When she finished and came out, car would not start.  Completely dead.  Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc.

Here's the question:  In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.  This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.  Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.  Would not start with good set of booster cables.  Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.  So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home.

Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being stranded?  (Battery is about 4 years old.)

Thanks,
Dwade

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[107.221.86.73]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 20-20020aca0f14000000b003bd3c3de58esm652805oip.47.2024.01.10.09.17.24 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Jan 2024 09:17:24 -0800 (PST) From: David Scheidt Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:17:13 -0600 References: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> To: Dwade Reinsch Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3161540693298060695== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-D9542389-B18C-4435-8FC6-5B9D4025118C charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Jan 10, 2024, at 00:48, Dwade Reinsch wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for gra= nddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front sea= t. Had the radio and inside lights on. When she finished and came out, car= would not start. Completely dead. Electric seat would not come back to dr= iving position, etc. >=20 > Here's the question: In the old days a weak battery would give notice by c= ranking slowly, etc., before failing. This is the car I drive regularly and= it gave NO warning. Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help. = Would not start with good set of booster cables. Would not start with 15 m= inutes of charging on cables before attempting to start. So in the morning I= 'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the v= an home. >=20 > Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before bei= ng stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) >=20 If used properly, the conductance testers work well. Not cheap, but every a= uto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is accessible. Man= y cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, have state of charge and= battery performance information tracked by the computer. (OnStar sent me e= mail telling me the battery is low when I left my car on to listen to the ba= llgame at a campsite. I also get a monthly email, which told me to replace t= he battery for a couple months before I actually had it replaced.) Modern cars have much higher loads at start time, and lots of them require a= reasonably good voltage to turn the computer on. Without that, the car won= =E2=80=99t do anything (the computer controls the starter solenoid on most c= ars). The various computers also control all the other parts, which is why t= he seat couldn=E2=80=99t move.=20 This fall, I drove my wife=E2=80=99s fusion to the garage to do the brakes. I= turned off and on a couple times to get it spotted in the right spot. The t= hird time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier, it fire= d on instantly, with no slow cranking. Since I was in the garage, I had a b= attery charger handy. 10.2 volts or something like that. Putting the charger= on lowest setting let it start. Plenty of joules in the battery, just not e= nough voltage to turn the ecm on. (I replaced the battery before pulling it o= ut of the garage, it was 4 or 5 years old.) >=20 --Apple-Mail-D9542389-B18C-4435-8FC6-5B9D4025118C charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Jan 10, 2024, at 00= :48, Dwade Reinsch <dreinsch@swbell.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
This afternoon I was sitting i= n the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater a= ctivity and I went to sleep in the front seat.  Had the radio and insid= e lights on.  When she finished and came out, car would not start. = ; Completely dead.  Electric seat would not come back to driving positi= on, etc.

Here's the question:  In the old days a weak b= attery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.  Thi= s is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.  Luckily, I coul= d call son-in-law and he came to help.  Would not start with good set o= f booster cables.  Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cable= s before attempting to start.  So in the morning I'll take pickup and t= ools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home.

Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before= being stranded?  (Battery is about 4 years old.)


If used properly, the conductance testers work well.  Not cheap, but e= very auto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is accessible= .  Many cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, have state of= charge and battery performance information tracked by the computer.  (= OnStar sent me email telling me the battery is low when I left my car on to l= isten to the ballgame at a campsite. I also get a monthly email, which told m= e to replace the battery for a couple months before I actually had it replac= ed.)

Modern cars have much higher loads at start ti= me, and lots of them require a reasonably good voltage to turn the computer o= n.  Without that, the car won=E2=80=99t do anything (the computer contr= ols the starter solenoid on most cars).  The various computers also con= trol all the other parts, which is why the seat couldn=E2=80=99t move. =

This fall, I drove my wife=E2=80=99s fusion to the= garage to do the brakes. I turned off and on a couple times to get it spott= ed in the right spot. The third time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 2= 0 seconds earlier, it fired on instantly, with no slow cranking.  Since= I was in the garage, I had a battery charger handy. 10.2 volts or something= like that. Putting the charger on lowest setting let it start.  Plenty= of joules in the battery, just not enough voltage to turn the ecm on. (I re= placed the battery before pulling it out of the garage, it was 4 or 5 years o= ld.)

= = --Apple-Mail-D9542389-B18C-4435-8FC6-5B9D4025118C-- --===============3161540693298060695== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3161540693298060695==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 10 15:09:43 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73BEFA0E9F for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 15:09:43 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta-201a.earthlink-vadesecure.net (unknown [51.81.229.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 036D0A0DD0 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 13:45:09 -0700 (MST) YvlkM=; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=earthlink.net; h=from:reply-to:subject: date:to:cc:resent-date:resent-from:resent-to:resent-cc:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post: list-owner:list-archive; q=dns/txt; s=dk12062016; t=1704919499; x=1705524299; b=aVm2OH+wqMTqTH9UGbiRruZGTeBv47lNWavrldcRMFsbdFFrPvKSYww fyxzDRMvpc+bUlCkSMaRGmoZFmPINKuxqsVhL6fhy8o/Y2LHWA470P7dXL1kCP9DmMyb5oN nheKx20R3MkzIcqiS8NyAlTBsB0snH1RmrLTjUlhPv3ZwuLmUOeVij/k6Sx93sMH+A3oxdC KUyYkyGwzGfrzSdFFw5lYylDl84lWVtigRnklJ2WSgSOeUqjtdNp+XKusaZBY9Fei9uda4m JoYz9XlNldR/OoIaTIaMDt6LgwUkSXTimN1+ySPtjG7pHnTV/1pMsB05jD3qujCVDzEQu/e V1Q== Authentication-Results: earthlink-vadesecure.net; auth=pass smtp.auth=bk13@earthlink.net smtp.mailfrom=bk13@earthlink.net; Received: from elnk-wm ([20.185.102.81]) by vsel2nmtao01p.internal.vadesecure.com with ngmta id 303037b8-17a9174073850763; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 20:44:59 +0000 From: Brian Kemp To: Dwade Reinsch , shop-talk@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 20:44:58 +0000 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3621619080392959484== boundary="--_NmP-736d935d1ee7b6ec-Part_1" ----_NmP-736d935d1ee7b6ec-Part_1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My daughter's 2022 Honda HRV battery died while she was listening to music = waiting for a friend. She said every light on the dash came on. Tough = situation trying to help a teenager in college on the other side of the = country. The service rep at her local Honda diagnosed the problem as most likely the= battery over the phone as did Honda Care service. Honda Care said they = couldn't get to her for about 3 hours so she had a friend with a jump = starter get her going and went to the dealer where they confirmed the = battery had failed at the 18 month point and replaced it under warranty. = >From multiple forums, it turns out that the HRV batteries are likely = marginal at the start to save money and weight. She now has her own jump = box and learned how to use it for when this happens the next time. I had a 2004 then a 2012 Odyssey and both had batteries fail with almost no= warning. Many current batteries are a case of they don't make them like = they used to. Brian -----Original Message----- From: Dwade Reinsch Sent: Jan 9, 2024 10:42 PM To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. =20 This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for = granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front= seat. Had the radio and inside lights on. When she finished and came out= , car would not start. Completely dead. Electric seat would not come back= to driving position, etc. =20 Here's the question: In the old days a weak battery would give notice by = cranking slowly, etc., before failing. This is the car I drive regularly = and it gave NO warning. Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to = help. Would not start with good set of booster cables. Would not start = with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start. So in = the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement,= and move the van home. =20 Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before = being stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) =20 Thanks, Dwade ----_NmP-736d935d1ee7b6ec-Part_1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

My daughter's 2022 = Honda HRV battery died while she was listening to music waiting for a = friend.  She said every light on the dash came on. Tough situation = trying to help a teenager in college on the other side of the country.

 

The service rep at her = local Honda diagnosed the problem as most likely the battery over the phone= as did Honda Care service.  Honda Care said they couldn't get to her = for about 3 hours so she had a friend with a jump starter get her going and= went to the dealer where they confirmed the battery had failed at the 18 = month point and replaced it under warranty.  From multiple forums, it = turns out that the HRV batteries are likely marginal at the start to save = money and weight.  She now has her own jump box and learned how to use= it for when this happens the next time.

 

I had a 2004 then a 2012 = Odyssey and both had batteries fail with almost no warning.  Many = current batteries are a case of they don't make them like they used to.=

 

Brian

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dwade Reinsch <dreinsch@swbell.= net>
Sent: Jan 9, 2024 10:42 PM
To: shop-talk@autox.team.net = <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad = car battery.

 

 
This afternoon I was sitting in the = 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater = activity and I went to sleep in the front seat.  Had the radio and = inside lights on.  When she finished and came out, car would not start= .  Completely dead.  Electric seat would not come back to driving= position, etc.
 
Here's the question:  In the = old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before = failing.  This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.=   Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.  Would = not start with good set of booster cables.  Would not start with 15 = minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.  So in the = morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and= move the van home.
 
Does anyone have a suggestion for = identifying a failing battery before being stranded?  (Battery is = about 4 years old.)
 
Thanks,
Dwade

 

----_NmP-736d935d1ee7b6ec-Part_1-- --===============3621619080392959484== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3621619080392959484==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 10 16:57:15 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD393A0E10 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 16:57:15 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi1-f169.google.com (unknown [209.85.167.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C8F5A0C86 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 14:11:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oi1-f169.google.com with SMTP id 5614622812f47-3bbf67d619cso3714933b6e.2 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 13:11:02 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704921062; x=1705525862; darn=autox.team.net; h=references:to:cc:in-reply-to:date:subject:mime-version:message-id :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=m0kCPuZaXeeEGV/knQmrnUcndQ6wDhgnEJqQ8eRlohw=; b=HeV0+gU7prtiyLxE1FeBT3WofUtrOZ3bRLAC95mjjdDxHlJzF1jDxQLV5zLW57dRpJ iWR0zMBEyj0QL6vsqO09axMqG4txPoKicg5J23816ZIJE9/UwqNcmU/tmgDD8yeJMMNX yiiLCXX4Cyq7d6VlqTtu7T+SppHg+lD90ayU2neJa7e6DaxVdAAe44xUV3hsl11xGms6 C088WZ2VYmke307HIkt3NcNs73Qvgm9n/VpE46lUNFP6uKLZ/lrZrvbSC9kFwkOS77B8 i9MkReJ4dyvPhabgFcm3h8jiGgwU0uJhCBFkpFJeJtSuU3t+/SkQhFC93c5cJdjdSDiE X+fA== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704921062; x=1705525862; h=references:to:cc:in-reply-to:date:subject:mime-version:message-id :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=m0kCPuZaXeeEGV/knQmrnUcndQ6wDhgnEJqQ8eRlohw=; b=VsVpVLhlNgdkA25FXUGYkj5QiolvtyZ7xFzC25dYZNwA2+mN96e9udBG4bvLNpLMF6 boy+ft5f2rnptkkb/eOJM0wZ3135ZTEAWYygm5BaKeEJCWA53gnevs9bKZ3PZY6d0tJm gacSQq/pwbIhh2SAhHNoBil3SROCwRRV1dbdYdUZnsAUk7baKZRz5FVeIA9zMucdij/x ONDgyvaLT/wRyY9B6dG8bCcRbjETWhazQTE/ThRSlg40qQ/T+ZtvkjMmkzJq4mHcBcHx uTB2+dfiH2A4IzysU7ayPJzZXrVA1JwHC+uRxBSSTUFC/qZm5/vqrW4bRsOfosBGGLK1 g5yQ== vJPRRCf53zUC98p6brul+gI= e12-20020a056808148c00b003bd1f0308b1mr244657oiw.26.1704921061704; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 13:11:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (ool-4350ed26.dyn.optonline.net. [67.80.237.38]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o1-20020a056214180100b0067f8b974712sm1982958qvw.125.2024.01.10.13.11.01 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Jan 2024 13:11:01 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 16:10:50 -0500 To: Dwade Reinsch References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1400036789724982785== boundary="Apple-Mail=_5DB466E4-081E-472D-9249-8C4E1B182494" --Apple-Mail=_5DB466E4-081E-472D-9249-8C4E1B182494 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 While not a direct answer to your question, I do want to share two = observations about Hondas and batteries. First, while my five Hondas = have all been mechanically bulletproof, I can=E2=80=99t say the same = thing for their recent OEM batteries. My 2017 Ridgeline went though 3 = Honda batteries in its first three years. Then, shortly after the = warranty expired, the dealer told me the third was going bad and should = be replaced - this time at my expense. I replaced it with an Interstate = battery that has now considerably outlasted the 3 Honda ones. I don=E2=80= =99t know who has been making Honda=E2=80=99s batteries, but the three I = got between 2017 and 2020 all sucked. Second, I think your 2016 Odyssey is the same platform as my 2017 = Ridgeline (Gen 2 for Ridgelines) and uses a Start button rather than a = key. If so, I have noticed that the ACC =E2=80=98position=E2=80=99 = (hitting the Start button twice without putting your foot on the brake) = turns on a lot more than just the radio, including the HVAC system. But = one day I absent mindedly shut off the car with the transmission in = neutral; the radio stayed on but everything else shut off. I now do = that if I want to listen to the radio in the car, leaving it in neutral = and setting the parking brake. It seems to work fine and presumably = won=E2=80=99t tax the battery like the ACC position would. Jim > On Jan 9, 2024, at 11:03 PM, Dwade Reinsch = wrote: >=20 > This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for = granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the = front seat. Had the radio and inside lights on. When she finished and = came out, car would not start. Completely dead. Electric seat would = not come back to driving position, etc. >=20 > Here's the question: In the old days a weak battery would give notice = by cranking slowly, etc., before failing. This is the car I drive = regularly and it gave NO warning. Luckily, I could call son-in-law and = he came to help. Would not start with good set of booster cables. = Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting = to start. So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull = battery, get a replacement, and move the van home. >=20 > Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before = being stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) >=20 > Thanks, > Dwade > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine@gmail.com >=20 --Apple-Mail=_5DB466E4-081E-472D-9249-8C4E1B182494 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 While not a = direct answer to your question, I do want to share two observations = about Hondas and batteries. First, while my five Hondas have all been = mechanically bulletproof, I can=E2=80=99t say the same thing for their = recent OEM batteries.  My 2017 Ridgeline went though 3 Honda = batteries in its first three years.  Then, shortly after the = warranty expired, the dealer told me the third was going bad and should = be replaced - this time at my expense.  I replaced it with an = Interstate battery that has now considerably outlasted the 3 Honda ones. =  I don=E2=80=99t know who has been making Honda=E2=80=99s = batteries, but the three I got between 2017 and 2020 all = sucked.

Second, I think your 2016 Odyssey is the same = platform as my 2017 Ridgeline (Gen 2 for Ridgelines) and uses a Start = button rather than a key.  If so, I have noticed that the ACC = =E2=80=98position=E2=80=99 (hitting the Start button twice without = putting your foot on the brake) turns on a lot more than just the radio, = including the HVAC system.  But one day I absent mindedly shut off = the car with the transmission in neutral; the radio stayed on but = everything else shut off.  I now do that if I want to listen to the = radio in the car, leaving it in neutral and setting the parking brake. =  It seems to work fine and presumably won=E2=80=99t tax the battery = like the ACC position = would.

Jim

On Jan 9, 2024, at 11:03 PM, Dwade Reinsch = <dreinsch@swbell.net> wrote:

This afternoon I was = sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to = finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat.  = Had the radio and inside lights on.  When she finished and came = out, car would not start.  Completely dead.  Electric seat = would not come back to driving position, etc.

Here's the question:  In the old days a weak = battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before = failing.  This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO = warning.  Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to = help.  Would not start with good set of booster cables.  Would = not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to = start.  So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull = battery, get a replacement, and move the van home.

Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a = failing battery before being stranded?  (Battery is about 4 years = old.)

Thanks,
Dwade
_____________________________= __________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
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= --Apple-Mail=_5DB466E4-081E-472D-9249-8C4E1B182494-- --===============1400036789724982785== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1400036789724982785==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 10 19:43:21 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA52A0DF5 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 19:43:21 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io1-f54.google.com (unknown [209.85.166.54]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CD9FA073C for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 15:10:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-io1-f54.google.com with SMTP id ca18e2360f4ac-7bed8faf6ebso101078339f.2 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 14:10:47 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704924647; x=1705529447; darn=autox.team.net; h=mime-version:content-language:accept-language:in-reply-to :references:message-id:date:thread-index:thread-topic:subject:cc:to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=0wLxMtbJJd9WC2CEh6L8jkqLjh6/9XyN6etto0Mte/k=; b=AVIGbkjzeTualwQ9FM1nn/Fo9pj1qiXDpSV57RqDkEuiA4ZTw3rD/+4PYRdpPLg5VE Hd7KVAIG9vqyOrpXFUcurl38KGABI+YOULqzsLeCgDyTmPneJOYWS0jSgcA3+Ein+7LM X7OBsZrebGYxkXWJErb1wRNpUac5oYZhLvvtQkSDb1bGSchlbqpDX0SKHe0fygZ10zVw R446MSxKC/NxoBIZ5W0lQxgHFT14oZdyxB7RDkTBp/AZpzQqy/n7ZvDyQBEaVfCdtxTG w0qLzmY7QJXR+iTYWFCV5V0uU2kOKFf/R0fGsNW6ExQMR8eiFUheLCd42eNuhf7xQ69D NxWg== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704924647; x=1705529447; h=mime-version:content-language:accept-language:in-reply-to :references:message-id:date:thread-index:thread-topic:subject:cc:to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=0wLxMtbJJd9WC2CEh6L8jkqLjh6/9XyN6etto0Mte/k=; b=ZB/pgsC5hRa0EzzJoB4oA5cqbH3F3TWdp5LvuN7lCOcrPZiJm9K2bKJ+n6S3leP+KZ KEJdoOzzGZWeHZlkADjb3ddRkh7MkIxg/+jznrVIuJZPmJT/kZHHj15K4dqo10t99KnF kItaMKzBjomLKzocilY3A/Cg+8O4uZwwK7ZxiJlbHu9wkw8k2FVRj4TLLqXDLYtaGDg2 u2eHi03YzFI2GtYJSUlpKOn0H+9pJ2JqRiSG/sE60KWQDMZK7tpNP08ptlZ/o13vIIal 20QERgmrzNjxmKXVY6HAHiaem2m+P/TH/3cmB+6KEt91urV0bi1cP2GWjQ078UdTZe2L p8RA== W7VjCdWmIosY1CE5Tu5Lcso= cn17-20020a056e02389100b0035fb1069092mr325696ilb.10.1704924647285; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 14:10:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from BYAPR04MB6053.namprd04.prod.outlook.com ([2603:1036:307:28f0::5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ci7-20020a056e02360700b0035fc82879a4sm1493382ilb.45.2024.01.10.14.10.46 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 10 Jan 2024 14:10:47 -0800 (PST) From: old dirtbeard To: David Scheidt , Dwade Reinsch Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Thread-Index: AQHaQ8YAAKuIqXJOt0qGEEWAt2mFwbDTSiiAgABRnXY= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 22:10:45 +0000 References: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> <6E660B9F-228C-4E54-9B59-975B7DD07E40@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. 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Jan 2024 21:09:38 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [34.199.103.79]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0550A0D6F for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 16:39:16 -0700 (MST) To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent From: Moose Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 18:39:05 -0500 01/10/2024 06:39:22 PM, Serialize complete at 01/10/2024 06:39:22 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuses Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============9048275691411567473== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0081ECD185258AA0_= OK, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd ask. My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights. So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try again. Blown fuse. I take some other items off the circuit and try again, blown fuse. Moving around and trying different things, blowing fuses all around. I found the short, fixed it and all is well. My question is, is there a way to do this without having to blow fuses? I'm guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is still a short, but I was not getting a open circuit. Any ideas so I don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next time? Thanks. Moose --=_alternative 0081ECD185258AA0_= OK, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd ask.

My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights.

So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try again.  Blown fuse.

I take some other items off the circuit and try again, blown fuse.

Moving around and trying different things, blowing fuses all around.

I found the short, fixed it and all is well.

My question is, is there a way to do this without having to blow fuses?  I'm guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is still a short, but I was not getting a open circuit.

Any ideas so I don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next time?

Thanks.

Moose --=_alternative 0081ECD185258AA0_=-- --===============9048275691411567473== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============9048275691411567473==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 11 05:14:22 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E8E8A0BAE for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 05:14:22 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic315-23.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (unknown [66.163.190.149]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 881DBA09C5 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 04:44:16 -0700 (MST) t=1704973446; bh=sYAXPgXY33NkvutZFBD3xdQxlkXlWnmHZp64hRuXSms=; h=From:To:Date:Subject:References:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=U4FJVV/6c/vnQlsli/avxkaWi/0ZD48SU8lEkYx30IbMtFwZ8YIBWfphp3vTO5glgRWf09NqKrbxHglvYl8zrhRc2rjhtnlqdLQ8ljF0d3hY/+kUM4kCHDpRaTbyctNsaw98VLXeyCQRAxiA6+njWwSYvlgzXdkK3L47wKbEgto= t=1704973446; bh=TsYedYWiMrNc0yKT9+OT+Q1mSsJY/36yq/CalRJeESu=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Date:Subject:From:Subject; b=X6bhQKlLdWZeXg4Pl4/4cAm3RVWxCxvDtrsReyK4CuH1LK/bufz0qRa1b6Rl2aF8CbFiIaHkN9lv7c1AArtd/of4zj9PvZ1PIZg+HzGfF11XNTJJ5n9LSx2M+zqSQ5NgPoUEMAsDXPOr31xYlt8xUmt781+1i9viKG4WSSSMRPq1hGTFNgUoEQhOs/fLBgPpOHheqRXt/4Lx+z6nEkBDzG8tIPd4c7BUKpr2e+fj2ey+Snmg2jNz/6FNvf7d/NoXuU/iwPZcAJJJu7GQ/xol3zMhcEDqPc5OFo2GhqaTiTC/Vy58cNDG+x0sPVkBkjYNLmuZkEjTXL+xOx5gyONatQ== FqD0970nIPwu_aQcMd2wunYcAKrJWLdgb6OhfWfHQcYVu8tkLH.qj6Sa7WxtOOB8_g3yvP7KL5v6 r5NaucFXotbAnAbcsc6D8t9Af.BMlia1aCnvl6JBAqXu9DYZSMtSbLZH9u_47xNSAgILu9ZnnoFg 2mP.7g_DMouth2iWx31ONyTNCqsbtm4lnXSVdIy_R4R.kJsx5SfiW7oa3Qj7.Ca.v66tosNsx7Eh ksl7n76LHM6MC12dnyeHK7arcRcBkeiuamp0yJN1yNdmVk4fAe.tYPtXxGUWwkJj1T.QMETcoOeB 3ZA9aWJa.KNGkH23cg8z5y18foksCuBroWtBVqP6HOzS.OmgM5AYuNx3.d.gGwz6SCPndiitFfAw r0D5KwxNjtZuLuMEbxPqD_IQhtqq7.lv3CIo4jWXY9hnfQ_EMtugLSzkh5VP576Kccvoq5tiJ7wZ TCOyhcqAjJraVBBaU33BI1hKGXRewnb2mqQqVdOxJccEZY7LY_iaeloA_.q2Dj2BNiBofREpH3cE 0vkFp6jYpNodqhfdCI.xRCxDn_tv8RHN7olKemUN7cGGqIACTtx4QTdtkdv4yJU9fd73S7U10Xlc QRBs47moKHS54BRmeQkrfBCHHxwQSLh4.iwuTaGSZw2zYrZoCiUoC8BKYroCU0YXgExKnmd5GWFp euvYMPiUCnGxZ.NRR5IZAlFE7llr1BmR8l2kiyO_DJ.RXcsomg_NN_FC0InT0IP0jYF8xw3Cg4.g _luza97V7n6jOzqeJuBMkl6zLHnqAA4i1nbFbQo.2zBaAikarMtYMIOh_dNIlXgcXaUlGdMo.d9v mI555i0bnDlGTnKAL5LY7F.BKqub.BmVy6xI1UioXo4e0Vx594p_JWyl6ZNl__Vk8T.GGyEdpMJe F7DeIMerOTH2XvQ6nJdOtapQzMXWIa1I45JbPj9dA2D2tXyZb1wr8dPHwSofqWVn.g07Et..mC4z cVWUoNZ0_5lLAXKGW8uUrwbvjRG2SlpHxHhsKmPxwRDWWX_bqHp2Jst_xGNzDfUbcUq.th54YFCB WlN.EU7HuwHpvxgDUMkacmLfgovhPTYz4P9Xhk1_rlEWM2LwyYqXO27JXzY4byjZa3GkH8DJXsry qccA5Z5OS8J9OhhFgtEBRTK32By_7m9Vt0mzPdgZp2kYgAw81U.cxdo.1azOOqgFyCk5LC.smFt3 0Dh6W33ykifc_dNju4pxjJtAfXYM34ptwMF_kQBlk4zrnwNHX4NEHVni3.SoLFv.EKHh4OBldSHO qP2ghT60uEvm20sybDgHwV3Ewj_upea.uV1_oApK6I8v2X6_3Ek5itL9n7izBXUlLa6qTOgrVmHH KSqAwiwyFcyKaruD5eU4VEK0Ojks24CKc2xw6zXKvAGOGn0xVA5.2Ruop3HpJ1J64lyHUhBMKadh luZ03Ai0RYQ5gL5xe_1OkxztiIM7_CHKmXY.5EQNfi1rZpeRD.jUKZHRb_TZJMgypHXwHfw7v8RL 3aNNG_LJFCR_ScJs9W8H8fCeEZqjeD7IbzPPv0ejBYdeAdCS_mQxfKAOnIQQFmWAgOsUqoFijAls 4u.n7VdemrmUxsyKlNNx3.qEu9NcF0rtjO9SIV5Cedwh_o9VjbBgLk98cXP4O3Le4sj096S6ujCG nZaXbpHkOV4N5_mCMnd9guCgaRfy.14r8i_O0RAUaBAc6tp1vguarSnPKL9o5otyndWOHx6se2rp v8ucPZ6UL89UqrA_FXr9Iq23ys9BuvnEgy4Ghl8MwYDfvoRw4NfOAsLmX.3KLAaMgku2WodL7twK 9pLUnk3vm9GxRQO4LZxEyMMGG3VJHN3jlYEoI0Ut8PRVkXBPHUP4illSAvUlE3zz7pJFMmgQJOA. wdW0sowSp3hErilU_F_rTRo_VBtpLxGiRP26tC43nFsRgPPs6XsFmIaGQN.kU4_q2knk6DWse6lX JL1UiOmJuQw6vC1__ZWLMooe9nxgkCOWU8KJ7Ybqoqg.B3sptB9oOIsV2at6_FSor1LNQnK1YJCD c2HbMbe6vBhyivKkyYDDSQ1claJyKZK7bLdIGr4Gik_bBdvf2oA0WPYgmL.6JmxHeuWWC8HIKf.U 7GN2bKhIPV7a7Aa03wibare2lPKDqy20BRfyxhbWW36C4LeAVhRwWS06fIjjkCXojKlcx_0m10zQ ucJbRvltc21AgpRhgfuvKgrEXd43wZh6CzXmzNg-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic315.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 11:44:06 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-bf1-59b8649b59-5drnt (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID dedff3644e2d10efef13f77bdfb19eb3; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 11:44:03 +0000 (UTC) From: "john" To: "shop-talk" Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 05:44:01 -0600 User-Agent: OEClassic/4.6.2 (Win10.19045; P; 2023-12-06) References: <1UhOVKl6Pr.KFaMfb0uLRw.ref@johns-desktop> mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Fuses Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7480070442717624323== --------------090006050303090103080001 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline =20 =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: john To: Moose Sent: 1/11/2024 5:43:29 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses you can do it with a meter but especially go buy a circuit breaker of the= =20 proper amperage, instead of more fuses keep backing up until you find your short =20 put all your fuses back in the proper slots when you finish ! =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Moose To: Sent: 1/10/2024 5:39:05 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuses OK, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured=20 I'd ask.=20 My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights.=20 So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try again. Blown fuse.=20 I take some other items off the circuit and try again, blown fuse.=20 Moving around and trying different things, blowing fuses all around.=20 I found the short, fixed it and all is well.=20 My question is, is there a way to do this without having to blow fuses? I'= m=20 guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is still a short, but= I=20 was not getting a open circuit.=20 Any ideas so I don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next time?=20 Thanks.=20 Moose --------------090006050303090103080001 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
 
 
= ----- Original Message -----
= From: john <jniolon@att.net&g= t;
= To: Moose <eric@megageek.com>
= Sent: 1/11/2024 5:43:29 AM
= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses
you can do it with a meter but especially go b= uy a circuit breaker of the proper amperage, instead of more fuses
keep backing up until you find your short
 
put all your fuses back in the proper slots wh= en you finish !
 
= ----- Original Message -----
= Sent: 1/10/2024 5:39:05 PM
= Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuses
OK, = I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd ask.

= My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fu= se if I turn on the lights.

So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try again.  Blown fuse.

I take some other items off the= circuit and try again, blown fuse.

Moving around and trying different things, blowing fuses all aroun= d.

I found the short, fixed= it and all is well.

My que= stion is, is there a way to do this without having to blow fuses?  I'm= guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is still a short, bu= t I was not getting a open circuit.

Any ideas so I don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next = time?

Thanks.
Moose
--------------090006050303090103080001-- --===============7480070442717624323== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7480070442717624323==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 11 07:08:39 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36037A0CC4 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 07:08:39 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic314-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (unknown [66.163.189.146]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C2EAA0C03 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 05:59:35 -0700 (MST) t=1704977965; bh=p3awhtRba4SfwPXpsCw0yvqJG3FHz3SbTfyxhk6UpI8=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=shagNOOG2clwz/9wl0xsT/2TZ3s9D+/IZxJ4fWIG4o0voxDlRyz2x+XFycqndIFd8VVKMPWr9y849iNZq0ehU68RrLNklGeoTu4rBSK7wyhglc1VdZVNwlCr4bvXA8edd1aHF4t8tPnqDNyuD7OzYp0W78e21Ws2EfL5Rdqk6jo0T7OibDkJwSyyxXkEn/cHxi7NBPJC0aN8tGReUDv+f8qBEfnX/7grSnf3zLfUdNuC7C6fktUIWTIioUge5EgHkiF+xT/gktjgYN16lspi0gQNsk9BDZjRPxcfP6PnVQ1dKT0eG2v4ropt2CmGsuyJ7jhIUMslEtacFPh7d3brDA== t=1704977965; bh=Nfxt8Wf/GedvkpfGpcfr+NQI4+uYLQrjc1IyqRm3jzN=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=IxlBt48UgO69yAsT7fmUmkIo24s0k35xg+ziyD+djNEDKx/SVB8/txrGeXrRVvhVIMTNm0OhOvMr6OqPJhIH0N5qVZNgXny1SB4AVMqvu/g7vfZQuVA6S7aSXue+a8vgRTVmOGNHZY3DXapdIwkn3Kr5NrfYYiKjuDvh+7A/9pmop9VAFI7GMol0OTZrVKOfIbKEMQcHcZtho3rg8Hy/LV6xD+HKIHOeYXJkAaTjry6WWiuk3zDQ80zKor/aavZckbWMKYgwky0/yTpzIOvYG8s+wf/xl/NrGzqI4SIWzUXSo4EDehJI81EA3umpel3PqS8jndr2A4+OEUazkq8q2w== H4Fi1RnIoj_b9Ls94zIUGhbM_Xi51UhIRQsE1JgONR_pRFaIGkN7OzEIX7k_yGCb0wD0kKDcHLx1 1xcppZ5B87zBNQ3qLpdCg6GjsYI2sc6T61AA_l8irJFiSOlnu3kz4l.sgjuYV0vgmWII2ai5DSao FCbAaEtl6uKLraYKgA36r1raAPGrxqCH6bL_FEbiNhHeH0lM.OG29SHQhs0jURYz_LswfChGfumd Q5pQ1zusJgjhkLjP10riOPEofVuh6MEyz8Qn2i6Rrf_cMmLLTV0wnplEv.ZsMAmM0a.is0WTg.UW l.6tPg9Lk63SLo3wHWOms6NKjDJaFD4VVMNjlf5Ic0tWLFDlWL.0OA0R7B.JGYCAyTXzfcSxWUG3 d_KKTAdM.KSWZI7E6BmvudEB0.KSCK._0o38hOYBQRPJ5.VAAgEbN2_vO7W4Mg7JoziqndKUDcIs aQj9mO6_qT1bQyzGMBhrqyyaJLCS9_qokPbrJYZ4t61s2lFF82VtLyEIoD.Cma7xyZtzur9XkG1A VYa79TkMXkzsHhTUPzAOaKzfIntxfR7MiEBcTLTPuu1gZ5R343h9FyFYi9r30mWLP9SZ.2tHNeD1 8p.bJ6gSKhsdEbWmrZaq7OKOBQvtXm_OiI7ndiF49waGW0lxG_gfDoTcIDrt54o87CCnRWe5ecHc ZKs2Q0s1XXPI4Wp4WUzUaFYFeHsuucYlLwQHnk_bhCiQQaliMhB8UTbdI97OQXmMx5XPRaW5Cx8s 9GOhIrlxeu2YQhMW6uGySSCLkB.q6SXUJfjPoImGDzjUG4QNghvyfHynTVAD8FQ_lLp5qd8UPW.f yx3nP8KWQR4mB9J2HKLIWRRED8Xf7yiNbsK.YBSw_UG05mHZ3VYXXvrpfLyHU6L9xo_LWz3JUfnt Eu1XHRWx3mWLsuqMVLGlmvounysTQgyhzEDqT_4IybcDHI1K3mI.vy7XG7_u5VM0vA62eWlsRtUj zLHn.nymfrCGkbrrZ9eGz6S9kB0XD1WLAMUr7ZYXEK3RygkG1d8tA4Q9b0TG2Ym2rOn0ooMg325E tOKnHsOAkIZx_GxQxfLkFAEQ14WStpRa0thXxWp3oplvEzHG7_N6oN62rSRdpMdakvZWwhBSI.Dp ATIfZMFn4eDAc7IutvS1UxR09z9wxgARt9WdZ0g_tZlc0Iaj1IHfXfOMTKRYsGPBd8ntqGt1yRoz GmqBChIndNiaUhL8oRDSQgVE78LGWXC5taB0auigiwx6DUZ1MuIaw3mK9pg9vdA0vRIi0f3a.LL4 Iij4MgRKas4hGGWOtPJgpREkU_k3ihJNex1kZw_812Da1AyqpwaVVbyiH8bWUSXLqtUXg3.sUChD kfbZpdnU62ycB3xzjvbCwvsV5sAOeX1lBMGFMQE3Yb_8MqhcO2QGq8g62koU3BUnC9MxmLz1Avy2 7nO2iJzcRZyK_T3axufH9nbJz4dKSAwgjUsiZvg2BaHnKAJ3f4Sxd6ygeZOodVg.beYuhORq7MY5 SUL.13R4oOFhdvUqYV_JAQ43r16s9.vlL9UMEUm0Fqv49c28iTIl4g8gupZ8acO9GuuhuXTSJ2mK kNwAzUyUQdrc0VeGExfLzDvxpQuNxs.XbwGANxMjHwGyiNruXCmV62skq_sCrj6V8X.bYdd7KkyV 7dzM0_OBeZ2dQcDLpqWQ1mrGEVGABpeT9DtiGTXfIoSugBDXp8Dz2YK9KifTKkS1.273n63.DzQr dvTa4foi8eAfeHzKL3LlELsaZBxZG4n_D_yGPwsS.SWUk_ukW63eS5Nr.QSiqsVEA5b.7._DNqdK r7Ve0CGz4jZ3GaSs8NAZ7H2ysA6rtt5Hh43e3PaTtCndIPrS3lg0Q3FdHqLaTHdywPvG0ydv1DWo FwUZzJnVkm6aIzvHA3XuoeDyNf6JJDILi_eXtrm7N5OHCU18asXs1d2_B89GF8vSwvQBigolLFqo 8RT_pw7V9wjn.RDYm2TlBoYCYJt2eXlPnNaF_HXIZLfTVaiJ64cu2QYfzdpNPBgMIdR0gdrbt4iq oHKnhBOBjU6.aU3TEKZ7yFhTFYaQo00F25yGPQC7k4zTL4cAbWbBKYn_Ws6m9kv2g35OooHetMc0 iaBcO0.6.NEXlvr9dkc5roD_4AsSZyKdAFie0.Ilp93dquzLwzpQuSUT9WDhNyDUd2tzZJ4tHiom nZMklUBcx6Yy744RK0g-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic314.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:59:25 +0000 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:59:23 +0000 (UTC) From: DAVID MASSEY To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" , Moose References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0861978108722111401== boundary="----=_Part_203223_1467416508.1704977963888" ------=_Part_203223_1467416508.1704977963888 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The trick I learned is to replace the fuse with a headlight.=C2=A0 The shor= t will cause the headlight to glow full bright.=C2=A0 Once the short is cle= ared the other lights will illuminate dimmly as will your fuse replacement = and now it is safe to reinstall the fuse. Dave=20 =20 On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 10:11:39 PM CST, Moose wrote: =20 =20 OK, I'm sure I'm missing something here,but I figured I'd ask. My Jeep had a short circuit and blowsa fuse if I turn on the lights. So I remove all bulbs on the circuitand try again. =C2=A0Blown fuse. I take some other items off the circuitand try again, blown fuse. Moving around and trying different things,blowing fuses all around. I found the short, fixed it and all is well. My question is, is there a way to dothis without having to blow fuses? =C2= =A0I'm guessing a meter should show0ohm resistance if there is still a shor= t, but I was not getting a opencircuit. Any ideas so I don't have to go througha hand full of fuses next time? Thanks. Moose_______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive ssey@cs.com =20 ------=_Part_203223_1467416508.1704977963888 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The trick I learned is to replace the fuse w= ith a headlight.  The short will cause the headlight to glow full brig= ht.  Once the short is cleared the other lights will illuminate dimmly= as will your fuse replacement and now it is safe to reinstall the fuse.

Dave




=20
=20
On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 10:11:39 PM CST, Moos= e <eric@megageek.com> wrote:


OK, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd ask.

My Jeep had a short circuit and bl= ows a fuse if I turn on the lights.

So I remove all bulbs on the circu= it and try again.  Blown fuse.

I take some other items off the ci= rcuit and try again, blown fuse.

Moving around and trying different= things, blowing fuses all around.

I found the short, fixed it and all is well.

My question is, is there a way to = do this without having to blow fuses?  I'm guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is still a short, but I was not getting a open circuit.

Any ideas so I don't have to go th= rough a hand full of fuses next time?

Thanks.

Moose
________________= _______________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
= =3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donatio= n  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-t= alk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/= shop-talk/dave1massey@cs.com

------=_Part_203223_1467416508.1704977963888-- --===============0861978108722111401== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0861978108722111401==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 11 07:31:42 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F1CDA0BF7 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 07:31:42 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ot1-f47.google.com (unknown [209.85.210.47]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE0F2A0491 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 06:20:54 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ot1-f47.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-6dc20b4595bso3502663a34.0 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 05:20:45 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704979244; x=1705584044; darn=autox.team.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Y00+ejH80imNPHWS399iG8AOiziAO9qdR+YeS5g7Z6M=; b=cKXZ275qRpMZiiKqik0Z+GYmqU5kT8kT7d21jUcYHX2qIYoUf+9196OD+ta856vY4a 4ysnZD1ifDXgqS+vu9wsi7e74Rw5dO1uDxPty3eSJeiYP4MJa+0B+7lIAyLhBuKtIvLc NmY0Swor5KVBJ4QtvfJs0DhLr/vdawsh2Bc/477rRTPMhWe19H/KZNnVMvJEcJFLyrCj jE1v9iV6rqnHpl5Cx7yU7sVfCARgwz1VNbl9hcw9xzLjMoRxg7DJ3vMNIimhdRHNIIV5 Fpamo1UUJ3FvXGlJjsj4OrwQ+5AM9HfiZm0XvC0BUhY+o64xkJp0feR1Kh6pHviKu5YM efLw== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704979244; x=1705584044; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Y00+ejH80imNPHWS399iG8AOiziAO9qdR+YeS5g7Z6M=; b=OxnV9hv54G84kiJWRBw782l8Bv9r7F1+/aNCw+7wwoqfZKVj2Sc4ADAWo8aasXjjet 43hH2PNo87CLeHQ3zEt/WnhERtbbAInxaoCCXKjbw9QC0jgZVlftNqU9gn9qI+c6Pm1j jU5JTHB30lTF6qJ/KwCRsl0GI3JV+NCkNGTB6gNHTKykH5HhB1bDnee+ts3QwZZqL6VT 0jGqV8tfeztZ4xdEiguvuS648wiAiVxDA3eFidjFwMfAxyyRYl0r5ut0Q4A1hrI3iX/1 j6xzDeDcyD6Ausp56FPr/T/pBl/cSKOTLqrtA9yxFAejpzr850IAL9n2oYYD906lu7HG t51A== MMnvrSWH0tHlXO11FauePZRnH+blJSClCcG7UMiAYyfI k2-20020a056870818200b002069d595f86mr750498oae.2.1704979244150; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 05:20:44 -0800 (PST) References: <1UhOVKl6Pr.KFaMfb0uLRw.ref@johns-desktop> <1UhOVKl6Pr.KFaMfb0uLRw@johns-desktop> From: old dirtbeard Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 05:20:33 -0800 To: john Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fw: Fuses Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4341761142284801400== --0000000000003273bc060eab6a00 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Another option is to disconnect the positive terminal of the battery and then connect a 12VDC battery charger to the positive lead and to ground. The charger should not be enough to blow the fuses and it also generally will not damage your harness. Most battery chargers have circuit breakers and will pop if shorted. I am wiring lighting for my Lotus Eleven right now and am using an old 10 amp battery charger and my Simpson 260 meter to chase down the circuits and find the shorts. The multi-wire cables from the chassis to the clams have rotted and been chafed by the tires, shorting internally. best, doug On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 4:21=E2=80=AFAM john wrote: > > > > *----- Original Message -----* > *From:* john > *To:* Moose > *Sent:* 1/11/2024 5:43:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses > ------------------------------ > you can do it with a meter but especially go buy a circuit breaker of the > proper amperage, instead of more fuses > keep backing up until you find your short > > put all your fuses back in the proper slots when you finish ! > > > *----- Original Message -----* > *From:* Moose > *To:* > *Sent:* 1/10/2024 5:39:05 PM > *Subject:* [Shop-talk] Fuses > ------------------------------ > OK, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd ask. > > My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights. > > So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try again. Blown fuse. > > I take some other items off the circuit and try again, blown fuse. > > Moving around and trying different things, blowing fuses all around. > > I found the short, fixed it and all is well. > > My question is, is there a way to do this without having to blow fuses? > I'm guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is still a shor= t, > but I was not getting a open circuit. > > Any ideas so I don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next time? > > Thanks. > > Moose > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com > > --0000000000003273bc060eab6a00 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ano= ther option is to disconnect the positive terminal of the battery and then = connect a 12VDC battery charger to the positive lead and to ground. The cha= rger should not be enough to blow the fuses and it also generally will not = damage your harness.

Most= battery chargers have circuit breakers and will pop if shorted.

I am wiring lighting for my Lotus E= leven right now and am using an old 10 amp battery charger and my Simpson 2= 60 meter to chase down the circuits and find the shorts. The multi-wire cab= les from the chassis to the clams have rotted and been chafed by the tires,= shorting internally.=C2=A0

best,

doug
=
On Thu= , Jan 11, 2024 at 4:21=E2=80=AFAM john <jniolon@att.net> wrote:
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
----- Original Message -----
From: john <jniolon@att.net>
To: Moose <eric@megageek.com>
Sent: 1/11/2024 5:43:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses
you can do it with a meter but especially go b= uy a circuit breaker of the proper amperage, instead of more fuses
keep backing up until you find your short
=C2=A0
put all your fuses back in the proper slots wh= en you finish !
=C2=A0
----- Original Message -----
From: Moose <eric@megageek.com>
Sent: 1/10/2024 5:39:05 PM
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuses
OK, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd = ask.

My Jeep had a shor= t circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights.

So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try a= gain.=C2=A0 Blown fuse.

I take some other items off the circuit and try again, blown fuse. =

Moving around and trying diffe= rent things, blowing fuses all around.

I found the short, fixed it and all is well.
My question is, is there a way to do = this without having to blow fuses?=C2=A0 I'm guessing a meter should sh= ow 0ohm resistance if there is still a short, but I was not getting a open = circuit.

Any ideas so I= don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next time?

Thanks.

Moose
<= /div>_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/dirtbeard@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com

--0000000000003273bc060eab6a00-- --===============4341761142284801400== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4341761142284801400==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 11 07:52:23 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB597A0A90 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 07:52:23 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from ms11p00im-qufo17281901.me.com (unknown [17.58.38.56]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8427BA0C7E for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 06:26:50 -0700 (MST) s=1a1hai; t=1704979600; bh=6H1Nbq6DMwUwRe4SXsXDScLdBU8E4p9AFJl6CyZUJRA=; h=Content-Type:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=Ie5tJE1JAnAF7UZKNRs2zXsAKsR9/lYYWfnnZPx7jTJwFMIcw7R2tW0M3L+51QRI8 rEnQ1kxRwkbuR/OUKT2M1fZZo0fM3DaCUPl51w1rg1qM6vM9QgICJs0tnoIYkkfSYZ P/4L9loUs1IIaf/qIcAmbh/fCtlzFHIZQGVN50vTnpQSUc56IzmcP3OofvNzTMibE7 fUWlSsjWqVGC4XGxuqrudc0/64MUNhmVeOqjSk+l+/rdjbSpbdUAgibHTS2uBETaBS hsclyVNcBgSBiA8e5ucl/JX5TLSfoL30PREMX3qy3UEWFiMJMlWlc1is67GoehWksL uU7HlQ5c2wM9g== Received: from smtpclient.apple (ms11p00im-dlb-asmtpmailmevip.me.com [17.57.154.19]) by ms11p00im-qufo17281901.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CA6BD800DC; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:26:39 +0000 (UTC) From: Pat Horne Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 07:26:27 -0600 References: To: Moose engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.997,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2024-01-11_07,2024-01-11_01,2023-05-22_02 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1015 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2308100000 definitions=main-2401110107 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0021288815462884423== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-B5BADE6F-919D-4B9D-A245-076224CE49DE charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Moose, for headlights & other high power circuits, replace the fuse with a h= eadlight bulb. If there is a short it will light to full brightness. For low= er current circuits, use a lamp that is lower draw than the fuse. You could h= ave used a smaller bulb on your headlight diagnosis if you disconnected the h= eadlights.=20 Pat Horne=20 We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 10, 2024, at 10:21=E2=80=AFPM, Moose wrote: =EF=BB=BFOK, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd ask. My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights. So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try again. Blown fuse. I take some other items off the circuit and try again, blown fuse. Moving around and trying different things, blowing fuses all around. I found the short, fixed it and all is well. My question is, is there a way to do this without having to blow fuses? I'm= guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is still a short, but= I was not getting a open circuit. Any ideas so I don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next time? Thanks. Moose_______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi= ve as@icloud.com --Apple-Mail-B5BADE6F-919D-4B9D-A245-076224CE49DE charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Moose, for headlights & other high powe= r circuits, replace the fuse with a headlight bulb. If there is a short it w= ill light to full brightness. For lower current circuits, use a lamp that is= lower draw than the fuse. You could have used a smaller bulb on your headli= ght diagnosis if you disconnected the headlights. 

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity

=

On Jan 10, 2024, at 10:21=E2=80=AFPM, Moose= <eric@megageek.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFOK, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd ask.

My Jeep had a short circuit and blo= ws a fuse if I turn on the lights.

So I remove all bulbs on the circui= t and try again.  Blown fuse.

I take some other items off the cir= cuit and try again, blown fuse.

Moving around and trying different t= hings, blowing fuses all around.

I found the short, fixed it and all is well.

My question is, is there a way to d= o this without having to blow fuses?  I'm guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is still a short, but I was not getting a open circuit.

Any ideas so I don't have to go thr= ough a hand full of fuses next time?

Thanks.

Moose_________________= ______________________________

Shop-talk@au= tox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<= br>Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: htt= p://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/op= tions/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com

= --Apple-Mail-B5BADE6F-919D-4B9D-A245-076224CE49DE-- --===============0021288815462884423== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0021288815462884423==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 11 09:12:18 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B03CFA09C7 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 09:12:18 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-lj1-f176.google.com (unknown [209.85.208.176]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 559D9A06C0 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 09:08:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-lj1-f176.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2cd1232a2c7so65646051fa.0 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 08:08:28 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704989307; x=1705594107; darn=autox.team.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=4Id8goxYh/9Ax8hzgupydIOjcDoUSl+pk0EYaBpWE/o=; b=QZNI7bMPiz7XgO4i3vU01TG+eHcu149ZmutY6SOShc6FeQ8YJLUEYTxJT+v1UgEdDu 5AeuCpULh3aJIN3pfHNyyqwbZDOdOBkFcIv1eVEijLhV0VZb8t/mpILnTO886S1NeD1l Y7LlAwegYkzo5mHvmtVEIhU9STnnSvTbEeX1ljZEWMnhNYCYMVgyXmxPQ6D6yVGzWfHe uOYjQfhLr8vQ428iFQBv/zKYQ7XgWDFFRGToj2Ogbc/C7SzQMNKC7300e26NxNDQ/CUO pcz5/c3rMT+KlxL9VRZ5ssNHv7M+nlXgY40q7tXezPnK1w3csTwe7JC32TUkZThCr0p4 kH0g== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704989307; x=1705594107; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=4Id8goxYh/9Ax8hzgupydIOjcDoUSl+pk0EYaBpWE/o=; b=YvgHnfyf2NeApbnoo/ofraoSfp9e8+eqHkBHm7BrtJdPu1zdWORGyjgi9Mf5VRbq58 4KySHAgzpoxYRDFPK+twv+iw1ma1lne2Z7CEMy3IVopt+1rhXvJ/9O//3Qkb8QAoLpES 7uGkMqcbxazh2lJOwBgolmarc5H0xH71T92f6DipV5YJwbIW16AMCYjMeTZcq5aRj3bu ZOGU0PeToArKYjBj6aIdOWj/TiqRvYuV0i6AW6oJKiDFo0GidIrC3OAfF5LYuE7JkPA6 aRp4m+V7Sr+D4PZmqciPNmhBC8jmT0Yv1qpGSPoi4eVky6SSFVnc+y8W4NuLqZovYcRQ eJ+Q== rTEMVyLj+Ecw0YDvSdTom+J0u2072zFz6Bqz9ukY2KM= n19-20020a2e9053000000b002cd7ac4f9b7mr526438ljg.4.1704989307024; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 08:08:27 -0800 (PST) References: From: David Scheidt Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 10:08:15 -0600 To: Moose , shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net T24gV2VkLCBKYW4gMTAsIDIwMjQgYXQgMTA6MTfigK9QTSBNb29zZSA8ZXJpY0BtZWdhZ2Vlay5j b20+IHdyb3RlOgo+Cj4gT0ssIEknbSBzdXJlIEknbSBtaXNzaW5nIHNvbWV0aGluZyBoZXJlLCBi dXQgSSBmaWd1cmVkIEknZCBhc2suCj4KPiBNeSBKZWVwIGhhZCBhIHNob3J0IGNpcmN1aXQgYW5k IGJsb3dzIGEgZnVzZSBpZiBJIHR1cm4gb24gdGhlIGxpZ2h0cy4KPgo+IFMKCnJlcGxhY2UgdGhl IGZ1c2Ugd2l0aCBhIGNpcmN1aXQgYnJlYWtlci4gIHlvdSBjYW4gZ2V0IGNpcmN1aXQgYnJlYWtl cnMKdGhhdCBmaXQgaW4gbW9zdCBmdXNlIGhvbGRlcnMuICBJJ3ZlIGFsc28gc29sZGVyZWQgd2ly ZXMgdG8gdGhlCnRlcm1pbmFscyBvZiB0aGUgYmxvd24gZnVzZSB0byBhdHRhY2ggYSBjaXJjdWl0 IGJyZWFrZXIgaG9sZGVyIHRvLiAgSW4KYWRkaXRpb24gdG8gYmVpbmcgY2hlYXBlciB0byByZXNl dCwgeW91IGNhbiBmaWRkbGUgd2l0aCB0aGUgdmFsdWUgb2YKdGhlIGJyZWFrZXIgdG8gc2VlIGlm IGl0J3MgYSBkZWFkIHNob3J0LCBvciBvdmVybG9hZC4KYXMgZm9yIGZpbmRpbmcgdGhlbSB3aXRo IGEgbWV0ZXIsIG15IGV4cGVyaWVuY2UgaXMgbW9zdCBhdXRvbW90aXZlCnNob3J0cyBhcmUgYm90 aCBpbnRlcm1pdHRlbnQgKG9ubHkgaGFwcGVuIHdoZW4gYSB3aXJlIG1vdmVzIHRvIHRoZQpyaWdo dCBwbGFjZSB0byBydWIgdGhlIGJhcmUgd2lyZSBvbiBzb21ldGhpbmcpIGFuZCBub3QgcmVhbGx5 IGRlYWQKc2hvcnRzIGFuZCBoYXZlIGxvdHMgb2YgcmVzaXN0YW5jZS4gIHRoaXMgbWFrZXMgZmlu ZGluZyB0aGVtIG1vcmUgZnVuIQogb2theSwgbm90IHJlYWxseS4gIGJ1dCBnb29kIHRlY2huaXF1 ZSBpcyBpbXBvcnRhbnQuICBBY2Nlc3MgdG8gYSBnb29kCmRpYWdyYW0gaGVscHMgYSBsb3QsIGJl Y2F1c2Ugc2hvcnRzIHVzdWFsbHkgaGFwcGVuIHdoZXJlIHRoZXJlJ3MgYQpqdW5jdGlvbiwgd2hl cmUgdGhlIHdpcmVzIHBhc3MgdGhyb3VnaCB0aGUgYm9keSBvciBmcmFtZSwgb3IgYXQgYQpsb2Fk LiAgYmVpbmcgYWJsZSB0byBkaXZpZGUgdGhlIHN5c3RlbSBpbiBwYXJ0cywgYW5kIHRlc3QgdGhl bQppbmRpdml1ZHVhbGx5IGlzIGtleSB0byBmaW5kaW5nIHRoZW0uCgoKLS0gCkRhdmlkIFNjaGVp ZHQKZG1zY2hlaWR0QGdtYWlsLmNvbQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fXwoKU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3 dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYK QXJjaGl2ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9waXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9h dXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9hcmNoaXZlCgpVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50 ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10YWxrL21oYXJjQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cgo= From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 12 04:46:08 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C47AFA09C3 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 04:46:08 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [34.199.103.79]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5FABA0AD2 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 04:22:08 -0700 (MST) References: <1370429843.203224.1704977963889@mail.yahoo.com> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent From: Moose Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 06:21:56 -0500 01/12/2024 06:22:14 AM, Serialize complete at 01/12/2024 06:22:14 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============4271643000150916058== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 003E6FDE85258AA2_= Dave, This is brilliant (figuratively AND literally) 8>) But is this safe? Couldn't it melt wires if there is a short? This is a really great idea I never hear of, so thanks for sharing! Best tip of the year! Moose From: DAVID MASSEY To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" , Moose Date: 01/11/2024 07:59 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses The trick I learned is to replace the fuse with a headlight. The short will cause the headlight to glow full bright. Once the short is cleared the other lights will illuminate dimmly as will your fuse replacement and now it is safe to reinstall the fuse. Dave On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 10:11:39 PM CST, Moose wrote: OK, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd ask. My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights. So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try again. Blown fuse. I take some other items off the circuit and try again, blown fuse. Moving around and trying different things, blowing fuses all around. I found the short, fixed it and all is well. My question is, is there a way to do this without having to blow fuses? I'm guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is still a short, but I was not getting a open circuit. Any ideas so I don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next time? Thanks. Moose _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey@cs.com --=_alternative 003E6FDE85258AA2_= Dave,

This is brilliant (figuratively AND literally) 8>)

But is this safe?  Couldn't it melt wires if there is a short?

This is a really great idea I never hear of, so thanks for sharing!

Best tip of the year!

Moose



From:        DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com>
To:        "shop-talk@autox.team.net" <shop-talk@autox.team.net>, Moose <eric@megageek.com>
Date:        01/11/2024 07:59
Subject:        Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses



The trick I learned is to replace the fuse with a headlight.  The short will cause the headlight to glow full bright.  Once the short is cleared the other lights will illuminate dimmly as will your fuse replacement and now it is safe to reinstall the fuse.

Dave




On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 10:11:39 PM CST, Moose <eric@megageek.com> wrote:


OK, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd ask.

My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights.

So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try again.  Blown fuse.

I take some other items off the circuit and try again, blown fuse.

Moving around and trying different things, blowing fuses all around.

I found the short, fixed it and all is well.

My question is, is there a way to do this without having to blow fuses?  I'm guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is still a short, but I was not getting a open circuit.

Any ideas so I don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next time?

Thanks.

Moose
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
--=_alternative 003E6FDE85258AA2_=-- --===============4271643000150916058== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4271643000150916058==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 12 07:36:55 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50160A0BE8 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 07:36:55 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic316-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (unknown [66.163.187.146]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EC3DA0BF1 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 06:52:02 -0700 (MST) t=1705067512; bh=CB/Q0XJ0P2NXyXOYNkoURaEWOlMoeGze9H8PPVY09wo=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=XP/9R+NfBq40WFH6pYhQyv/HM4exAbOP5ke9zhQv6JX8TdPX4odyAm+jXLcCuyxxGDnBMvm9a2TulU64e7ZWwf/QPnBwNx854t61CKBEVfK/BwjSmDhTle9m8iRTyHgUMvwI/gThJXKHVTawzfIn+bVSExubt0rhGOILbuPUptBwrOmUrLisee2VLiUwU127bqrDEmPQxaDwgJavwrtcfTyF8rNLBvL6Kx9QH8KOnS2+jWrXhbVKkZtkpQhupngWJ8E/S5AOSroWZgTREmL2E6jmj4sijmYwh2TLiisV02UO2QYy1/WVtODhueM3lx/LutkJJLuPT5CE2ZBQnMQcaA== t=1705067512; bh=j+ydfn9htFsLQmqaqJqPv2YqkT3pH23AEKufz8CtWEk=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=W88jLfkcBmI3J3P3WSobMbZxd5cNdpjgBgyw1vpXmjO/ctKpcq2NkfHCaZVqpN9djkm4V0/gI0uYiwqRZv6fJEZlTgZ8WQY4YDKI/2u2qRZuaC95YW8X/gmuhjsz1FHxJmRIyIduppgwtLDYL6g12pLA0nWwwflSyGBPK3qfjKcX2/vAxRMVD+j1G5b5b6MgRnUnp/6Zbkx5DbaVxsuhlVraYDTmp1po+5yQLUkfAUwDBd+UrYMhcIXctPsCJW8LkFkC0Fzp8mEv5EGYrV89Jm8J3+hr+Q58U5Z221Y+c3v7HcJ17g3xevsevos/+pHAk/KjOxZPIIP9/rmXOGD/Og== WVIaNG3SKw9kW_e38HQigqJtsso8E1AAC9zar5yvfcj8EViRhTAWgeEQmEAM69FaTrXQkdu5gkyC FvBgoU3bmYK3TsdF181NCTGwORo9diZsVe1Vxa1XPaOaSQUE2_8a9MZQNhDhJItTRIzuvogg6EPD NYLBTQydyHngNydATnBO3FKjdQm0xLjHq.ziMdABRD9uvIOBMjzJj4BYfeLPwb3.IP6OduQJMWdP 1hWd.Oknq_pzwdwLPNAFRPmroQcBtCyQjNFalKZpt05uz3XnNSsaTdCtlCRAQY4OVWXNKGyVqvPu 6GbKOzOuB.nPcwZ91u8Y_EbGuloGPIl3cMY9XkJusq1tFyQ1UYcEUyK4Hm6JgAEW7bjI1Dna87f_ If.gxUdoqnKE3KNi5MNPQnxDlgLuvZJ6OeBr4aLOMcnCzwdpAHFagcp8N9rwSrN.NF4foc7XERnD bqgCyY9l80UyZENN0MaXds8_NbRTQ2D_vZ4HbMlNKkBv.MxxKnMoPjaFwRkHBPOQ8dPMiiJRmw21 FAPwzzo1_7FWiVZC0lYsd2XcIwoOjRb_ZfHFShEKLVn1mhs31Qz.g958Wj1SrEHI7glPtU16.vKh mQbhuXa03h_WLaobwWFJt0FjuwtGaizscpeVQ7jnXaiKkJquYEIvmXf6kClJLmgAR8fq6qJAXsNy siINxcev0ojwTOoIqNdjRhB3GAJriTDSsBJndoq4eulIJOYGlTN7UFNj1aNR48XVQ0tkKsS4Xxnh 9n6qQYBBxRKIhyOpy20WhfI7otE6SfF824QdMowIwr.hreO69yrCnCDHmli4gt0oE1iRSkSxW3uG XTCuAcI_k.xFep.HHGGnf3_Kd4XGVago9OowxCFqHBcE97fttIlLyu59MK6wKdj5hZZQct7G3XNn 7Bn15xe8pdwnI.WceYsrx81AWt12p6QvZEA0.9.AzLnf6ViwEEU_5Z4hOODNUkzS6uIE_TzvopYy KT88aCpyuQmM_D2UrIqf0XtByh_DEnbRN_OoVeTQ6oNfDASgA3A9jgv.uNonMnbs8CjSF15KqP_H CSneEggxCj1Feqx1gDk.UTRNNv917Iqa9c9ZzXMH5daX68sJQuYNW3FJYDJvEh2KMdqHNbeixLir vXMCYPPf9ZlLhKji8_KvHOl85e.Hnt9XWZp9PYVWjwv9lJIwEwdIQ5vvHaeU2LwDKfYRurl3IHI1 IdE6KOEmB3tus5av9SCeX1OhBLqgvS88QXQI2ex7JNnlRm0AOvXwUjSdpQkOB6ypGdCw81g9Dmx1 EqRxr3DWaVSCXtrD5WRV1PG0KgrXHjcMKNncNNhM2JZ5Ph5tEJUdscAu7NfJ2MMWYkMXpEzNFR21 T7k3Eksqxzg7Aio5sYs_bCuLx2iqTrUjyxSQcvaNkskUqT.L19Mm277G.JuhR54o_p6XJ7RCUOA4 OQkUh3_iiSmtYqn0KxORyIRb5xDMu1qWx9IqB7tljmgPaY49.Zm.VI8BbS.R7eVlCF0YUAN.YxWe 27nIK_PEEp3qNVzdbR2MP6mJtnYrpAmoxm_VsfjoDfynAZb35UqLNluugyWF88pm_BxfwXz3P7cC MLq6eMV1ed_pjaVRhI4yNnF6Hkgm68o1RD_jouczI31l3Gxd3ntYJP2Ac7kfYRKazsTw_qEwdMp2 EEkLvEeMtEraHsrbyCozV.MRWBt1DMNIDS1zWkL.ucnyIlS3NigcOiKK39TrOpGgcWK8EO_p6v1l l0mZHhHIiSekBn25c.wFfZIGSP.EnptdCOQkb13nAs9fOCMe6ZOtMbVra2cFk4cZl58wBsbdjIla x2Nl_B3zsQXJNkqqllagazUyvBsLugf7BhQ8Mg63jE44eD39NS1x2wjOTtrVTaXO7Hl_N.fyFC3E O_SkFAUVP3WJl1QktT70fzmrR5TCWpodM8CF6HFcbaDbXwupZ9R7mDcmyaRgwDSt7DOzpiKBLJJ1 PMXhXMAdyVpTmuMrCAaZMxnKH6cY8DLKu450BXgymcoagIhFhH7g6Y_b6wdv9cj54fNX10C4FErM 8xjdVZN2ltODZiEDk9xVC0FCH499lZ19PMzao0hXaSggPiSEhqas.sPMAM9bVp3rvFCYLZCSGLV3 4vrlhb1nm.RHGBHMi.EfqHW_QgNZ18eseOzONXgebxYpFcF5jyuPtcfUnntDBEbwn_garn.Zw1BG dRR8dS_tHQ7ssmY_e1Qg- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic316.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 13:51:52 +0000 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 13:51:50 +0000 (UTC) From: DAVID MASSEY To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" , Moose References: <1370429843.203224.1704977963889@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4978013923744571597== boundary="----=_Part_745654_183457467.1705067510701" ------=_Part_745654_183457467.1705067510701 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A 50W headlamp will limit current to 5 amps or so.=C2=A0 Just about any wir= e used in a British car harness will carry that easily enough.=C2=A0 If you= are concerned about the wire size you can place two headlamps in series to= limit current to 2.5A.=C2=A0 A short to ground will just look like a groun= d connection to the headlamp. Dave=20 =20 On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 05:22:00 AM CST, Moose wrote: =20 =20 Dave, This is brilliant (figuratively ANDliterally) 8>) But is this safe? =C2=A0Couldn't itmelt wires if there is a short? This is a really great idea I neverhear of, so thanks for sharing! Best tip of the year! Moose From: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0DAVID MASSEY To: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0"shop-talk@autox.team.net", Moose Date: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A001/11/2024 07:59 Subject: =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0Re: [Shop-talk]Fuses The trick I learned is to replace the fusewith a headlight. =C2=A0The short= will cause the headlight to glow fullbright. =C2=A0Once the short is clear= ed the other lights will illuminatedimmly as will your fuse replacement and= now it is safe to reinstall thefuse. Dave=20 On Wednesday, January 10, 2024at 10:11:39 PM CST, Moose = wrote:=20 OK, I'm sure I'm missingsomething here, but I figured I'd ask. My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights. So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try again. =C2=A0Blown fuse. I take some other items off the circuit and try again, blown fuse. Moving around and trying different things, blowing fuses all around. I found the short, fixed it and all is well. My question is, is there a way to do this without having to blow fuses?=C2= =A0I'm guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is stilla shor= t, but I was not getting a open circuit. Any ideas so I don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next time? Thanks.=20 Moose _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talkhttp://autox.team.net/archi= ve ssey@cs.com =20 ------=_Part_745654_183457467.1705067510701 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A 50W headlamp will limit current to 5 amps = or so.  Just about any wire used in a British car harness will carry t= hat easily enough.  If you are concerned about the wire size you can p= lace two headlamps in series to limit current to 2.5A.  A short to gro= und will just look like a ground connection to the headlamp.
=
Dave




=20
=20
On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 05:22:00 AM CST, Moose &= lt;eric@megageek.com> wrote:


Dave,

This is brilliant (= figuratively AND literally) 8>)

But is this safe? &= nbsp;Couldn't it melt wires if there is a short?

This is a really gr= eat idea I never hear of, so thanks for sharing!

Best tip of the yea= r!

Moose



From:        DAVID MASSEY <dave1mas= sey@cs.com>
T= o:        "shop-talk@autox.team.net= " <shop-talk@autox.team.net>, Moose <eric@megageek.com>
D= ate:        01/11/2024 07:59
S= ubject:        Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses



The trick I learned is t= o replace the fuse with a headlight.  The short will cause the headlight to glow full bright.  Once the short is cleared the other lights will illuminate dimmly as will your fuse replacement and now it is safe to reinstall the fuse.

Dave




On Wed= nesday, January 10, 2024 at 10:11:39 PM CST, Moose <eric@megageek.com> wrote:


O= K, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd ask.

My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights.

So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try again.  Blown fuse.

I take some other items off the circuit and try again, blown fuse.

Moving around and trying different things, blowing fuses all around.=

I found the short, fixed it and all is well.

My question is, is there a way to do this without having to blow fuses?  I'm guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is still a short, but I was not getting a open circuit.

Any ideas so I don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next time?

Thanks.

Moose
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mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey@cs.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_b= lank">http://autox.team.n= et/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey@cs.com
------=_Part_745654_183457467.1705067510701-- --===============4978013923744571597== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4978013923744571597==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 12 08:57:44 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1B24A09EA for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 08:57:44 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from omta013.useast.a.cloudfilter.net (unknown [34.195.253.204]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EB96A0C27 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 07:59:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from cxr.smtp.a.cloudfilter.net ([10.0.17.210]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id O9fsrH3virrFwOJ0YrlFkT; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 14:59:42 +0000 Received: from appsuite-core-mw-groupware-77fd577f6c-h64mk ([23.81.68.185]) by cmsmtp with ESMTPSA id OJ0Xrn76rPOvjOJ0XrxLkI; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 14:59:41 +0000 a=KvS1oV+/ZHnd6GIxHEoZ/A==:117 a=lQQNd5YhMygA:10 a=YdWNwiHsAAAA:8 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=q6SfDYXhAAAA:8 a=EU1z3vL4GC3u9dCyoCMA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=bz_d9vehOyUA:10 a=0zdG_NHw_m0bkGTGJ08A:9 a=aMD3O_D8CXoYLBSN:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Dvy9RdNuW8pLgIO2g5xE:22 a=GGGinmgZRQXmVEG1E52S:22 a=R7nWeq4dleIJhz-CJ_3q:22 a=UoNLSFz3Az-bL_YchZgx:22 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:59:41 -0500 (EST) From: JohnT Blair To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <1370429843.203224.1704977963889@mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal K0OQ+AbX40/42rpHVLI+VyB3tU0OjVakvE54wR2H4sCdztbPk+/8jnrEwjvZLEZzF54G4ZWcNW/nT98/T3xvmoIoz2ecTA9WHaMXItP6X/+vaNj0l0qwk6p7 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2286421092745615560== boundary="----=_Part_2853996_1139443664.1705071581038" ------=_Part_2853996_1139443664.1705071581038 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 01/12/2024 6:21 AM EST Moose wrote: >This is brilliant (figuratively AND literally) 8>) But is this safe? Couldn't it melt wires if there >is a short? Moose, Yes it's safe if you do it correctly. You want to use a good socket, if it's not plastic wrap it with electrical tape. We use this for finding a short in a piece of electronic equipment. Put a 60W light bulb in a box in series with the outlet that you plug the equipment into. This will limit the current to 1/2 amp. I also suggest (someone else mentioned this) that you make some sort of adapter to plug into the fuse socket. For the old glass cylindrical fuses, solder a piece of insulated wire on each end so you can connect clip leads to the wire to connect to the light bulb or to the circuit breaker. For the spade type, take a couple of spades and solder insulated wire to the spades. The secret is to use something to use limit the current to less that the original fuse, ie. if the circuit that has the problem has a 10A fuse, limit the current to 5A. How? Use ohms and Watts law, Ohms law: E = I * R E - Voltage, I - Current, R - Resistance. Watts law: P = I * E P - power (watts) So for a 10 A circuit in a 12 V system, R = E / I, you'll need R = 12V / 10A = about 1 ohm of resistance. You also need to account for the power: P = I * E or P = 10A * 12V or 120 W. This is why you use light bulbs. But they should be closely matched to the power used by the circuit being worked on. If you go too low of wattage, the light bulb will burn out, If you go to high, then the light bulb won't limit the current enough to protect the circuit. >This is a really great idea I never hear of, so thanks for sharing! Yes, I use it for electronics. But you need incandescent bulbs. https://www.instructables.com/Light-Bulb-Current-Limiter/ For automotive I prefer to have different size circuit breakers, 1, 5, 10, 20, 30A breakers and clip leads. JohnT, John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 & 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic 65 Volvo P1800 Morgan: http://autox.team.net/morgan/ Bricklin: http://www.bricklin.org/ If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! >From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction ------=_Part_2853996_1139443664.1705071581038 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 On 01/12/2024 6:21 AM EST Moose wrote:
 
>This is brilliant (figuratively AND literally) 8>)   But is this safe?  Couldn't it melt wires if there
>is a short?
 
 
Moose,
 
Yes it's safe if you do it correctly.  You want to use a good socket, if it's not plastic wrap it with electrical tape.  We use this for finding a short in a piece of electronic equipment.  Put a 60W light bulb in a box in series with the outlet that you plug the equipment into.  This will limit the current to 1/2 amp. 
 
I also suggest (someone else mentioned this) that you make some sort of adapter to plug into the fuse socket.  For the old
glass cylindrical fuses, solder a piece of insulated wire on each end so you can connect clip leads to the wire to connect to the light bulb or to the circuit breaker.  For the spade type, take a couple of spades and solder insulated wire to the spades. 
 
The secret is to use something to use limit the current to less that the original fuse, ie. if the circuit that has the problem has a 10A fuse, limit the current to 5A.  How?  Use ohms and Watts law,
 
Ohms law:  E = I * R     E - Voltage,  I - Current,  R - Resistance.
 
Watts law:  P = I * E      P - power (watts)
 
So for a 10 A circuit in a 12 V system, R = E / I, you'll need
R = 12V / 10A = about 1 ohm of resistance.
 
You also need to account for the power:  P = I * E or
P = 10A * 12V or 120 W. 
 
This is why you use light bulbs.  But they should be closely matched to the power used by the circuit being worked on.
 
If you go too low of wattage, the light bulb will burn out,  If you go to high, then the light bulb won't limit the current enough to protect the circuit.
 
>This is a really great idea I never hear of, so thanks for sharing!
 

Yes, I use it for electronics.  But you need incandescent bulbs.
 
https://www.instructables.com/Light-Bulb-Current-Limiter/ 
 
For automotive I prefer to have different size circuit breakers, 1, 5, 10, 20, 30A breakers and clip leads.
 

JohnT,

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948@cox.net

Va. Beach, Va                    Phone:  (757) 495-8229
 
65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)   48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget  
65 & 77 Spitfire   71 Saab Sonett III   65 Rambler Classic   65 Volvo P1800
 
Morgan:    http://autox.team.net/morgan/
Bricklin:     http://www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
     e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
     In God We Trust
     Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for 
                  oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction 


------=_Part_2853996_1139443664.1705071581038-- --===============2286421092745615560== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2286421092745615560==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 12 09:35:20 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AF7BA0182 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:35:20 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from chumdrop.sackheads.org (unknown [159.203.76.21]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59FB8A0C10 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 08:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chumdrop.sackheads.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0CA153D63 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 10:07:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from chumdrop.sackheads.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (chumdrop.sackheads.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xJXmafsWTA9r for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 10:07:52 -0500 (EST) s=2022-US; t=1705072072; bh=MiWShGbNE1HsQCJQF6ohHRONI/EQeMUpBGTEzBfXYJs=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=ly/b+5K9KIeuf2+MGzCn/+1xPBJvpssAD1/WIPZqYNhSCrnMU0oZgDbVaB9RuGEjF XTCGqFEfuIzpMSuSEsODXD3848l8iy7RR1dJkxSw+JT2r/Pd1af5y+T9Y05MGsdeg9 gXv5lZncJveg2fyw+0ozLUambEO44SZyT2MdQzzpek/tHIrPpFWGjbIrD+FURjLlbc 8Sx4tc8zCAevaeIFtfMyTO4fYg2+wUIreF9Wn+lrPuMohzRozKu65BNdBgyezKrEDW 3Uz4KP1zEXeg06baYN12OY2qY43IPl7t6BhHUp8eJrEEuZ6PeWOrFTgs+oBNdecMxE TlMvXdxQa7aTQ== Received: from [10.0.1.4] (024-209-025-219.res.spectrum.com [24.209.25.219]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jimmie@sackheads.org) by chumdrop.sackheads.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9B958153CC0 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 10:07:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 10:07:51 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <1370429843.203224.1704977963889@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Jimmie Mayfield Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============2957180348722050451== boundary="------------yQa5mW8FsyJ0be2T3t0P5rdb" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------yQa5mW8FsyJ0be2T3t0P5rdb Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 1/12/24 06:21, Moose wrote: > Dave, > > This is brilliant (figuratively AND literally) 8>) > > But is this safe?  Couldn't it melt wires if there is a short? As long as your wire won't melt when powering the bulb directly from a power source, it'll be fine. A light-bulb current-limiter is a technique that techs and hobbyists sometimes use when repairing old audio amplifiers. When the bulb's filament is cold, it has a pretty low resistance so it doesn't usually affect the circuit.  A 100W light bulb, for instance, has a cold resistance of about 10 ohm.  When plugged into a working circuit that doesn't normally carry a lot of current, the bulb's filament conducts but not enough to glow.  If there's a short circuit somewhere, much more current flows and it all gets dumped through the bulb and it gets bright.  Since the bulb is part of the circuit, it sets an upper bound on the amount of current that can flow so by choosing your bulb carefully, you can protect your fuses and the rest of the circuit while you troubleshoot. --------------yQa5mW8FsyJ0be2T3t0P5rdb Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 1/12/24 06:21, Moose wrote:
Dave,

This is brilliant (figuratively AND literally) 8>)

But is this safe?  Couldn't it melt wires if there is a short?

As long as your wire won't melt when powering the bulb directly from a power source, it'll be fine. 

A light-bulb current-limiter is a technique that techs and hobbyists sometimes use when repairing old audio amplifiers.  

When the bulb's filament is cold, it has a pretty low resistance so it doesn't usually affect the circuit.  A 100W light bulb, for instance, has a cold resistance of about 10 ohm.  When plugged into a working circuit that doesn't normally carry a lot of current, the bulb's filament conducts but not enough to glow.  If there's a short circuit somewhere, much more current flows and it all gets dumped through the bulb and it gets bright.  Since the bulb is part of the circuit, it sets an upper bound on the amount of current that can flow so by choosing your bulb carefully, you can protect your fuses and the rest of the circuit while you troubleshoot.




--------------yQa5mW8FsyJ0be2T3t0P5rdb-- --===============2957180348722050451== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2957180348722050451==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 12 09:52:47 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BAADA058E for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:52:47 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-yw1-f181.google.com (unknown [209.85.128.181]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60916A0B70 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 08:19:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-yw1-f181.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-5f8cf76ef5bso59395137b3.0 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 07:19:30 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1705072770; x=1705677570; darn=autox.team.net; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=kzdKDF9Dm3974xwdViDST5+1+AkLzgExflFiotnP+YQ=; b=M9bAUOYSKUDIAnU9R9fcinJlZ8+0bD7Sk7symRdKTJnf8k6TsXiBJZuWt0fWPGjBj8 wCIN5xx+rd/zebO3QzYsl4VHwQ5TeRy/Q3K8EzDiHmIsGljcaQ4O3ZQPis1gia1LbgAy GjIRE3UchL/li6lMJ+S2YongYkgAzN68SVTd66DkzqfNbUWW0kRQ5JtcH+f4EW99iLGQ fdcSWAbT9569JZ66MXxqoo1cnpJ1z+TpdwDjg6uSB5yTdM5gU6MQVGHKF3CtvSsWD947 yd9PZ1I65+8EYkl+6bxZJcWtuHl+IHPWXrlxnn/8tM+a366Ud3BHhOZHIQBPoJ3PKuut xajg== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1705072770; x=1705677570; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=kzdKDF9Dm3974xwdViDST5+1+AkLzgExflFiotnP+YQ=; b=EI7oDA0Af6Iys4XQF1S7InLG1XKw8jV2MSpA/ndGolYx7tz9XBNr8NIcmbljxP/w+t 8fH68tdR8fLpRl55j3HVUL8h9ZVI5sL9b2iK8GxFZAK8NGu23TjMUzn1qHtGSITy8BYR HOmFjU2DFXqG9NtmtaGvNRUKjVo1KKdrJEM6fo2+nDqYVjsIqbgasBUUkiJMho+Wo16U MDovZKAVaDvUjowAmGl9mBC7+/jFJymULrVmiiToGFSvD3P48Gm7ptc8dyjISZy3kp8b JYg2FabyCAJlIc46FksiMvCAvifCB3Vs7l91o45GRuLBeAI08qbppfTDbj8NGaHBDVff cygA== YKR2ov0f9S1Ve+KiYAIA3VukpMKQ6XMhe6swfgfuBwSG x13-20020a81f90d000000b005f6a23b9d4fmr1459720ywm.3.1705072769857; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 07:19:29 -0800 (PST) From: Gene Abbondelo Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 10:19:19 -0500 To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Air drill trigger sticking Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7593068967567679377== --000000000000c37ea8060ec130c8 I have an old Ingersoll Rand 1/4 chuck air drill that runs well but now won't shut off after releasing the trigger. I've disassembled it to clean it out and hope that that will fix the problem, Anyone have luck with doing this or is this problem unrepairable? I suspect parts are unobtainable and the model number is obliterated on the handle label. Also, on reassembly, do the ball bearings get greased or just oiled with air tool oil? I'm very attached to this drill and would like to keep it going. Thanks, Gene --000000000000c37ea8060ec130c8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have an old Ingersoll Rand 1/4 chuck air drill that runs= well but now won't shut off after releasing the trigger.=C2=A0 I'v= e disassembled it to clean it out and hope that that will fix the problem,= =C2=A0 Anyone have luck with doing this or is this problem unrepairable? I = suspect parts are unobtainable and the model number is obliterated on the h= andle label.
Also, on reassembly, do the ball bearings get greased or j= ust oiled with air tool oil?

I'm very attached= to this drill and would like to keep it going. Thanks, Gene=C2=A0
--000000000000c37ea8060ec130c8-- --===============7593068967567679377== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7593068967567679377==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 12 11:19:54 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A053AA0B50 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 11:19:54 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [34.199.103.79]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69828A0BE9 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:34:58 -0700 (MST) References: <1370429843.203224.1704977963889@mail.yahoo.com> <920202111.2853997.1705071581046@myemail.cox.net> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent From: eric@megageek.com Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 11:34:48 -0500 01/12/2024 11:34:54 AM, Serialize complete at 01/12/2024 11:34:54 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============5517850041645003648== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 005B13D385258AA2_= Thanks so much for this information. I can't believe that I might actually be looking forward to my next short circuit! 8>) Everyone, have a great day and thanks for all the help! Moose From: JohnT Blair To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Date: 01/12/2024 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses Sent by: "Shop-talk" On 01/12/2024 6:21 AM EST Moose wrote: >This is brilliant (figuratively AND literally) 8>) But is this safe? Couldn't it melt wires if there >is a short? Moose, Yes it's safe if you do it correctly. You want to use a good socket, if it's not plastic wrap it with electrical tape. We use this for finding a short in a piece of electronic equipment. Put a 60W light bulb in a box in series with the outlet that you plug the equipment into. This will limit the current to 1/2 amp. I also suggest (someone else mentioned this) that you make some sort of adapter to plug into the fuse socket. For the old glass cylindrical fuses, solder a piece of insulated wire on each end so you can connect clip leads to the wire to connect to the light bulb or to the circuit breaker. For the spade type, take a couple of spades and solder insulated wire to the spades. The secret is to use something to use limit the current to less that the original fuse, ie. if the circuit that has the problem has a 10A fuse, limit the current to 5A. How? Use ohms and Watts law, Ohms law: E = I * R E - Voltage, I - Current, R - Resistance. Watts law: P = I * E P - power (watts) So for a 10 A circuit in a 12 V system, R = E / I, you'll need R = 12V / 10A = about 1 ohm of resistance. You also need to account for the power: P = I * E or P = 10A * 12V or 120 W. This is why you use light bulbs. But they should be closely matched to the power used by the circuit being worked on. If you go too low of wattage, the light bulb will burn out, If you go to high, then the light bulb won't limit the current enough to protect the circuit. >This is a really great idea I never hear of, so thanks for sharing! Yes, I use it for electronics. But you need incandescent bulbs. https://www.instructables.com/Light-Bulb-Current-Limiter/ For automotive I prefer to have different size circuit breakers, 1, 5, 10, 20, 30A breakers and clip leads. JohnT, John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 & 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic 65 Volvo P1800 Morgan: http://autox.team.net/morgan/ Bricklin: http://www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! >From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric@megageek.com --=_alternative 005B13D385258AA2_= Thanks so much for this information.

I can't believe that I might actually be looking forward to my next short circuit!  8>)

Everyone, have a great day and thanks for all the help!

Moose



From:        JohnT Blair <jblair1948@cox.net>
To:        Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Date:        01/12/2024 10:59 AM
Subject:        Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses
Sent by:        "Shop-talk" <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net>



 On 01/12/2024 6:21 AM EST Moose wrote:
 
>This is brilliant (figuratively AND literally) 8>)   But is this safe?  Couldn't it melt wires if there
>is a short?
 
 
Moose,
 
Yes it's safe if you do it correctly.  You want to use a good socket, if it's not plastic wrap it with electrical tape.  We use this for finding a short in a piece of electronic equipment.  Put a 60W light bulb in a box in series with the outlet that you plug the equipment into.  This will limit the current to 1/2 amp.  
 
I also suggest (someone else mentioned this) that you make some sort of adapter to plug into the fuse socket.  For the old
glass cylindrical fuses, solder a piece of insulated wire on each end so you can connect clip leads to the wire to connect to the light bulb or to the circuit breaker.  For the spade type, take a couple of spades and solder insulated wire to the spades.  
 
The secret is to use something to use limit the current to less that the original fuse, ie. if the circuit that has the problem has a 10A fuse, limit the current to 5A.  How?  Use ohms and Watts law,
 
Ohms law:  E = I * R     E - Voltage,  I - Current,  R - Resistance.
 
Watts law:  P = I * E      P - power (watts)
 
So for a 10 A circuit in a 12 V system, R = E / I, you'll need
R = 12V / 10A = about 1 ohm of resistance.
 
You also need to account for the power:  P = I * E or
P = 10A * 12V or 120 W.  
 
This is why you use light bulbs.  But they should be closely matched to the power used by the circuit being worked on.
 
If you go too low of wattage, the light bulb will burn out,  If you go to high, then the light bulb won't limit the current enough to protect the circuit.
 
>This is a really great idea I never hear of, so thanks for sharing!
 

Yes, I use it for electronics.  But you need incandescent bulbs.
 
https://www.instructables.com/Light-Bulb-Current-Limiter/  
 
For automotive I prefer to have different size circuit breakers, 1, 5, 10, 20, 30A breakers and clip leads.
 
JohnT,

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948@cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                    Phone:  (757) 495-8229
 
65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)   48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget  
65 & 77 Spitfire   71 Saab Sonett III   65 Rambler Classic   65 Volvo P1800
 
Morgan:    http://autox.team.net/morgan/
Bricklin:     http://www.bricklin.org
If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
    e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
    In God We Trust
    Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for  
                 oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction  

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

--=_alternative 005B13D385258AA2_=-- --===============5517850041645003648== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5517850041645003648==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 12 13:51:15 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2FD6A077C for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 13:51:14 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from altprdrgo01.altice.prod.msg.synchronoss.net (unknown [65.20.63.142]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC688A0A05 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 12:46:58 -0700 (MST) bh=xjYIxhNl4cpDJSffFooStI5Lu9sG2sOiBYkCNpwxlj8=; h=Message-ID:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=ITk7CPXvuAJZZM+6hyoJ9KNVCr6EKjEod7ggH7dB71oPM1OeaGTcB8zLR5XriI8g2AFkcUbWXk9WhoZ+6HoYvGHxRqycR/pKpuGcWkRCaU/ophKMFe0fFd0ohAIYpo4wy+Jo2Q33hwgg0vn/lTseoNRkGgjcLw7Gq905HzTt8j4CHVwEBAVBBQh5ibmfnVmloPxjh/asamfttES1VGW8eCYegLsL6upNbIjMIbEdbmLNgSXJOAKN/els+9+fK29zL1ne4woj8WlrC3fb1wTy9stfUFHXGoUajfXBHPDxjpcTolF1g10LlGDm2JActvNiwnbbU8PzpznPqSI5NFDTaQ== ughrghhotddu Received: from steve-laptop.optonline.net (68.194.180.117) by altprdrgo01.altice.prod.msg.synchronoss.net (5.8.812) (authenticated as strovato) id 6578B6BD03780E90; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 14:46:44 -0500 (added by postmaster@optonline.net) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 14:44:17 -0500 To: eric@megageek.com,Shop-talk@autox.team.net From: Steven Trovato mail.megageek.com> References: <1370429843.203224.1704977963889@mail.yahoo.com> <920202111.2853997.1705071581046@myemail.cox.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Before we close out this subject, have any of you ever tried one of these "fuse buddy" devices? Looks interesting. https://www.esitest.com/C/17/FuseBuddy -Steve T. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 12 21:10:47 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11F53A06B4 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:10:47 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic315-25.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (unknown [66.163.190.151]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 706A2A09FB for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:06:56 -0700 (MST) t=1705118806; bh=pZugnNMnjAewWYcI+Ay7JbV2403P5pQfWKTturk0ZB4=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=k8CD3z9jMv3Oq2HZAUrcaWkuUwE7G97EdI8MM1PC/PsbAXSWxiJZf2GNn0Not1MzVqdbs0Slhsh8u+qKVbEirFwrxs5p533wsoDTy73S7vggUHBVA9V9UpCS+SZTNtl03/s0DV2TKuuH6JUQTtS0W9uGqNakMB8xMm8/Keuqj7QhY6FhL26bL+X4A8OUfOSQDKTF46Wav43Q0WpGIxEoUuaezrsB5KDJZYlioZap9hJM+4M49o9Gk1jXVoAvRXD87w8T79fDBEJPXsfce/2u0dwsLxwdQ9KF4W/WTCsmDcIZnw/Dwlz3cQMbHkQTERsoBZUgX+509a10afMKzQyhOg== t=1705118806; bh=pdSArMS0BslX9o2svzOW9L63pXQtbH+34t7vmCwSAXD=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=HYkf50zSbCjkawfDQ4hbJXF7d0OHB7iF678fFwga1uyGfc9GQq0Ew7mMO+d4jyyHhLO97PTNy1xmnIUWV/+VnK/ZN6Nf4b/WDploMg9jNP2Xicn6xuCcnRAJ1rPj12n8uo1uOB6cPTmAURdXbuIIPh3qMQsHKpS/caqhQ0CZLItuxkTRuHvFucoP26w3gyOOaup67iU5AGD0xf22E2P+oq1TPLfpI9K/KA07pfRT9T4Ap7RDJAv7WqsxexZ3Z5CDvBpRMjeQ0jgwP+JM7gY4v94CZMOvn44+ZPK6Zq8mRyZEFqjLaLTkMsqv8jlrk76lAF2WSzzHzKw3p5EywGZvHA== ynMbH.agT6f9yS6MwM65_qtGscbihoR7gj0QLJlgXtlGo_blNdaU0cec0m1eiN1cF9myzcUfCoLH ucxLSDcgsN_Hzgv5pzN0OwRmzA005s1_8CrIHvPSv04EKb5UYhAX1kKUI1DoWhwymfb2djuxnP.T 6_d4RyAF70bZoaFhvkwMNQuw8fRP1TCr0K5014fdOJWSVQUzinpBKmb2wIxZHHOV31ce337R0AiH o8oyCUOLmp4Y7.YHC2Z9BJLXzthr4UbkIcE2WFaZRO3OI6if937Jkq0QiQwjya3SMgrctZIkunTk o7CncreRgmEmFAkqMb8dEQHuYkdwhu_D5fl7JQfY30LB8HVM3wAQ3inmkzhXMTP3v0rz5FKBMFj2 pDaLxDjSUvwI2y6CXTQ_jzqzQBpgJsFU2mkOg_Yc2gv_8q3cLswpdXz6LX_WFzZ1fuJFlTTZwQ0v PexvW3jVSas7wHWVe4v87qr4auSu1fed6s4.wz4KF3m6nSwkey14uDXGuA.svXSNbof9ptnB7TSM 8B5naItuyaOWhKldNAKDn6YUxtuf4unI2tvLfrg4QkI4OiCPweuC5OciAuZybHo5aPO6_ZLfl4FT bosMM3XzSEPQdVuUbkQ89von78He_A2B5l9b9PJNxG5DVCV5sGSFrdqLN2OrqYCR8puHF0Tyy7xn EVBwJELvnu0mJduJ.BdAQz9GXtalvq.eIgI57WbuMzC2kGJToNafnwDO6k4WNr8IpkXSLSJMUwhT cL..br167Y4xvB1b_hRxJFyTNOnXao3A4s8aTv6797UsKFWQ0oyCqlZoNfDjXBmw_qEbhUSBbGGw 2Ketp3QC.8gGxzJdrrueb732B1slfz2ZWY6FszBYpWBYu.DfqmjTSqSlynS9NG8oTY9iXwcP3gWi lMicj_Zl9eGVCJ8A4EjLHQr3W5lvYWxc9Euv5Np08GR_TbRcIVdEYnvsPFCj1rzEzSRaJHyGfdow bwV6NP.jlv58oCBhE2vcVY0j5Z2ZWHAdedglsRTLpRtlT..QntpRRZ60IuMORRuNL9APiTVbJUxL agGLud2BruUVC923nuhdATC3vuvEbzWwubQp7z2fWEXOoGdwcnJvMyKVaMle0V_gCw_tgnHhWw85 f7dvhR2iY3KtWFq5k2XcnG8OZz2Lf44mp33zayZ35.H2X82wW6IiEHKl1tVqmkaobb0qiRrzxWb6 q63ENV6UwEOXOGKXNIZQjsAwWFJ39bj5I4Z7BWyKbZUf250N6FlGsHypnyOjyHVP87RPf_HYi10I b1.MtSMLOI0d_t9UTNWesL3y.2_FzIs3MIcdTFwK0p5FQGO1xliwiTm6lp3B2khxuM_owVuwfdly TQoqvVyquTl5ugROv7NlAcPOhFpqoeT_IgqitBny5arPUWoIXFEPN6gjqVj1r9VjaT0UyqkzBNOl _tRmqp_XyH8dEx8mGQ.DlCwLOEgJtxRszLVg7efBuKKjf67CpQZaQ.jQZ7oAt_BZb.dH11rNjSzo Nal0DksCpErAoU3hbnB.D8DB_zwOQ5co4G1.QyJaKKuIc1TKjqtgozzb20JvkLJrIidboFcLjnJA xxiucZ7cLNHIvzmb1ucSWZYR8wNbYQ226oBTIO6N3HrQs47n67cKtTj21t4L1lxYc4aOJgDyanIx jkV3dXWVWQDDRobA54O.NsOetg5RuUTNqs_FZulFCDz.PwXqYFQLnzt9kYr0aTbr9aO4P8L0qTjo gBsDM2cFjpXuqzkRT2VARD.BPPtdT06Jl.OjBvq.ebjMf3Um_mRrMFTVX37qYJhQrCAq23Bg9tj. Is2FLHvP74c0yR_aT0R5_QTdGiQSXl9nMEqjU24tqBpWC6Uo9xRs5Xpio18vI6VL4f6yBTNkFFVy w6qOP_BH8Fd6V1LW32m2oysCw0.vP_fiBo5Z6vnOdOBx6Sk.nTRzr01VVq8k3ls_0yrQFqID2uSg 1hXMykw5PPd0kaHhripZ8hJv4UIE3cUZ60quioXjHQXLwHi1AeQnBkEDDNU8kIqapfe2z8LgcwNZ tz48awTiFlVhWh1J04fE5EO7.tA5IQsipKrKK5y7X1tqcKnB0ODJOT9InNMTN2eO2tEHMHexqpt_ i6Elkk6NMvEiK9BFQMJ9pQRK47OR0YLv3Y34frlGFyB7KuRXI0b94lGvRIg435gG1OiVDFAW9yIK 09fHTgMz70POCoPRz0uvklx8sjB_pECEV1TOrlmrz Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic315.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 04:06:46 +0000 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 04:06:41 +0000 (UTC) From: Dwade Reinsch To: David Scheidt , old dirtbeard References: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> <6E660B9F-228C-4E54-9B59-975B7DD07E40@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============6264781781525800442== boundary="----=_Part_1114818_634835724.1705118801620" ------=_Part_1114818_634835724.1705118801620 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks to all who added to my knowledge base for modern cars and batteries= . I replaced the old battery the next morning, started right up, and continue= s to run perfectly.=C2=A0 I guess I'll just have to have battery tested aft= er about three years of use. Thanks again!! Dwade On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 04:10:50 PM CST, old dirtbeard wrote: =20 =20 Hi David,=C2=A0 Yes, I do understand about the lead acid chargers. I have accumulated many = over the last 50 years. =F0=9F=99=82 Best, DougmobileFrom: Shop-talk on behalf of D= avid Scheidt Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM To: Dwade Reinsch Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.=C2=A0 On Jan 10, 2024, at 00:48, Dwade Reinsch wrote: =EF=BB=BFThis afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting= for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the = front seat.=C2=A0 Had the radio and inside lights on.=C2=A0 When she finish= ed and came out, car would not start.=C2=A0 Completely dead.=C2=A0 Electric= seat would not come back to driving position, etc. Here's the question:=C2=A0 In the old days a weak battery would give notice= by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.=C2=A0 This is the car I drive re= gularly and it gave NO warning.=C2=A0 Luckily, I could call son-in-law and = he came to help.=C2=A0 Would not start with good set of booster cables.=C2= =A0 Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting= to start.=C2=A0 So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull batt= ery, get a replacement, and move the van home. Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before bein= g stranded?=C2=A0 (Battery is about 4 years old.) If used properly, the conductance testers work well. =C2=A0Not cheap, but e= very auto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is accessibl= e. =C2=A0Many cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, have state = of charge and battery performance information tracked by the computer. =C2= =A0(OnStar sent me email telling me the battery is low when I left my car o= n to listen to the ballgame at a campsite. I also get a monthly email, whic= h told me to replace the battery for a couple months before I actually had = it replaced.) Modern cars have much higher loads at start time, and lots of them require = a reasonably good voltage to turn the computer on. =C2=A0Without that, the = car won=E2=80=99t do anything (the computer controls the starter solenoid o= n most cars). =C2=A0The various computers also control all the other parts,= which is why the seat couldn=E2=80=99t move.=C2=A0 This fall, I drove my wife=E2=80=99s fusion to the garage to do the brakes.= I turned off and on a couple times to get it spotted in the right spot. Th= e third time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier, it = fired on instantly, with no slow cranking. =C2=A0Since I was in the garage,= I had a battery charger handy. 10.2 volts or something like that. Putting = the charger on lowest setting let it start. =C2=A0Plenty of joules in the b= attery, just not enough voltage to turn the ecm on. (I replaced the battery= before pulling it out of the garage, it was 4 or 5 years old.) =20 ------=_Part_1114818_634835724.1705118801620 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks to all who added to m= y knowledge base for modern cars and batteries.

I replace= d the old battery the next morning, started right up, and continues to run = perfectly.  I guess I'll just have to have battery tested after about = three years of use.

<= div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Thanks again!!

Dwad= e



=20
=20
On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 04:10:50 PM CST, old = dirtbeard <dirtbeard@gmail.com> wrote:


Hi David, 

Yes, I do understand about the lead acid chargers. I have accumulated = many over the last 50 years. =F0=9F=99=82

Best,

Doug
mobile
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on= behalf of David Scheidt <dmscheidt@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM
To: Dwade Reinsch <dreinsch@swbell.net>
Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.
 


On Jan 10, 2024, at 00:48, Dwade Reinsch <drei= nsch@swbell.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van= waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep= in the front seat.  Had the radio and inside lights on.  When sh= e finished and came out, car would not start.  Completely dead.  Electric seat would not = come back to driving position, etc.

Here's the question:  In the old days a weak battery = would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.  This is t= he car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.  Luckily, I could cal= l son-in-law and he came to help.  Would not start with good set of booster cables.  Would not start wit= h 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.  So in = the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement,= and move the van home.

Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing ba= ttery before being stranded?  (Battery is about 4 years old.)


If used properly, the conductance testers work well.  Not cheap, = but every auto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is acce= ssible.  Many cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, have s= tate of charge and battery performance information tracked by the computer.  (OnStar sent me email telling me the batter= y is low when I left my car on to listen to the ballgame at a campsite. I a= lso get a monthly email, which told me to replace the battery for a couple = months before I actually had it replaced.)

Modern cars have much higher loads at start time, and lots of them req= uire a reasonably good voltage to turn the computer on.  Without that,= the car won=E2=80=99t do anything (the computer controls the starter solen= oid on most cars).  The various computers also control all the other parts, which is why the seat couldn=E2=80=99t move.&= nbsp;

This fall, I drove my wife=E2=80=99s fusion to the garage to do the br= akes. I turned off and on a couple times to get it spotted in the right spo= t. The third time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier= , it fired on instantly, with no slow cranking.  Since I was in the garage, I had a battery charger handy. 10.2 volts= or something like that. Putting the charger on lowest setting let it start= .  Plenty of joules in the battery, just not enough voltage to turn th= e ecm on. (I replaced the battery before pulling it out of the garage, it was 4 or 5 years old.)

------=_Part_1114818_634835724.1705118801620-- --===============6264781781525800442== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============6264781781525800442==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 13 03:36:00 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03B2AA051E for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 03:36:00 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [34.199.103.79]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80B28A0806 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 02:54:31 -0700 (MST) References: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> <6E660B9F-228C-4E54-9B59-975B7DD07E40@gmail.com> <293333551.1114819.1705118801621@mail.yahoo.com> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent From: Moose Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 04:54:18 -0500 01/13/2024 04:54:36 AM, Serialize complete at 01/13/2024 04:54:36 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. 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7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5627475479184767937==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 13 07:39:48 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AD17A0889 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 07:39:48 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic322-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (unknown [66.163.189.33]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE480A04F5 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 07:03:54 -0700 (MST) t=1705154624; bh=8RU9hBNfB8sQylKU3pkjZCY+VhUBdVlSbTyckhyQzWM=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject:Reply-To; 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lgcieMb6BXci2kAKYoNCO309_ZK3wGpxr4HcFAJeHQqwjg4hv3BfW_aXst2HHU44Hm4ecfgY173o LMn1AadmJTP1aiaYUjjmdJQuaT1pm Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic322.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 14:03:44 +0000 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 14:03:43 +0000 (UTC) From: DAVID MASSEY To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" , Moose References: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> <6E660B9F-228C-4E54-9B59-975B7DD07E40@gmail.com> <293333551.1114819.1705118801621@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============6045521725535021013== boundary="----=_Part_1171981_1877657208.1705154623223" ------=_Part_1171981_1877657208.1705154623223 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ford, for one, does this.=C2=A0 They have a current sensor in the negative = cable and the computer integrates the current in and out and computes the n= et battery charge.=C2=A0 When using an external charger it is important to = connect the negative to the engine block so as not to bypass the current se= nsor so the computer can monitor the charge current and reflect the charger= 's current in the battery charge calculations. I expect there are others that do the same. Dave=20 =20 On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 04:39:57 AM CST, Moose wrote: =20 =20 One more note of stupidity on this topic.=C2=A0Modern Range Rover requires= their computer to change a battery! That's right, you need to tell theircomputer there is a new battery. I'm not sure if other makes are goingthis way, but it is one item on the lo= ng list of reasons I'll never ownanother RR! Moose From: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0Dwade Reinsch To: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0David Scheidt ,old dirtb= eard Cc: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0"shop-talk@autox.team.net" Date: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A001/12/2024 23:12 Subject: =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0Re: [Shop-talk]Stranded by a bad car bat= tery. Sent by: =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0"Shop-talk" Thanks to all who added to my knowledge basefor modern cars and batteries. I replaced the old battery the next morning,started right up, and continues= to run perfectly. =C2=A0I guess I'll justhave to have battery tested after= about three years of use. Thanks again!! Dwade On Wednesday, January 10, 2024at 04:10:50 PM CST, old dirtbeard wrote:=20 Hi David,=20 Yes, I do understand aboutthe lead acid chargers. I have accumulated many o= ver the last 50 years.=F0=9F=99=82 Best, Doug mobile From: Shop-talk on behalf of David Scheid= t Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM To: Dwade Reinsch Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. =C2=A0 On Jan 10, 2024, at 00:48,Dwade Reinsch wrote: =EF=BB=BF=20 This afternoon I was sittingin the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for grand= daughter to finish a theateractivity and I went to sleep in the front seat.= =C2=A0Had the radio andinside lights on. =C2=A0When she finished and came = out, car would not start.=C2=A0Completely dead. =C2=A0Electric seat would n= ot come back to drivingposition, etc. Here's the question: =C2=A0Inthe old days a weak battery would give notice = by cranking slowly, etc.,before failing. =C2=A0This is the car I drive regu= larly and it gave NOwarning. =C2=A0Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he = came to help. =C2=A0Wouldnot start with good set of booster cables. =C2=A0W= ould not start with 15minutes of charging on cables before attempting to st= art. =C2=A0So in themorning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, ge= t a replacement,and move the van home. Does anyone have a suggestionfor identifying a failing battery before being= stranded? =C2=A0(Batteryis about 4 years old.) If used properly, the conductancetesters work well. =C2=A0Not cheap, but ev= ery auto parts store will testfor you, assuming your battery is accessible.= =C2=A0Many cars, startingjust a bit later than your ofdesy, have state of = charge and battery performanceinformation tracked by the computer. =C2=A0(O= nStar sent me email tellingme the battery is low when I left my car on to l= isten to the ballgame ata campsite. I also get a monthly email, which told = me to replace the batteryfor a couple months before I actually had it repla= ced.) Modern cars have much higherloads at start time, and lots of them require a= reasonably good voltageto turn the computer on. =C2=A0Without that, the ca= r won=E2=80=99t do anything(the computer controls the starter solenoid on m= ost cars). =C2=A0The variouscomputers also control all the other parts, whi= ch is why the seat couldn=E2=80=99tmove.=20 This fall, I drove my wife=E2=80=99sfusion to the garage to do the brakes. = I turned off and on a couple timesto get it spotted in the right spot. The = third time I tried to start it,battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier, it fir= ed on instantly, with no slowcranking. =C2=A0Since I was in the garage, I h= ad a battery charger handy.10.2 volts or something like that. Putting the c= harger on lowest settinglet it start. =C2=A0Plenty of joules in the battery= , just not enough voltageto turn the ecm on. (I replaced the battery before= pulling it out of thegarage, it was 4 or 5 years old.) _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talkhttp://autox.team.net/archi= ve gageek.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive ssey@cs.com =20 ------=_Part_1171981_1877657208.1705154623223 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ford, for one, does this.  They have a = current sensor in the negative cable and the computer integrates the curren= t in and out and computes the net battery charge.  When using an exter= nal charger it is important to connect the negative to the engine block so = as not to bypass the current sensor so the computer can monitor the charge = current and reflect the charger's current in the battery charge calculation= s.

I expect there are others that do the same.
<= div>
<= font size=3D"4">Dave




=20
=20
On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 04:39:57 AM CST, Moose= <eric@megageek.com> wrote:


One more note of stupidity on this topic.  Modern Range Rover requires their computer to change a battery!

That's right, you n= eed to tell their computer there is a new battery.

I'm not sure if oth= er makes are going this way, but it is one item on the long list of reasons I'll never own another RR!

Moose



From:        Dwade Reinsch <dreinsc= h@swbell.net>
T= o:        David Scheidt <dmschei= dt@gmail.com>, old dirtbeard <dirtbeard@gmail.com>
C= c:        "shop-talk@autox.team.net= " <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
D= ate:        01/12/2024 23:12
S= ubject:        Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.
S= ent by:        "Shop-talk" <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net>



Thanks to all who added = to my knowledge base for modern cars and batteries.

I replaced the old batte= ry the next morning, started right up, and continues to run perfectly.  I guess I'll just have to have battery tested after about three years of use.

Thanks again!!

Dwade



On Wed= nesday, January 10, 2024 at 04:10:50 PM CST, old dirtbeard <dirtbeard@gmail.com> wrote:


Hi Dav= id,

Yes, I= do understand about the lead acid chargers. I have accumulated many over the last 50 years. =F0=9F=99=82

Best,<= /font>

Doug
mobile=

From: Shop-talk= <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of David Scheidt <dmscheidt@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM
To: Dwade Reinsch <dreinsch@swbell.net>
Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.
 =


On Jan= 10, 2024, at 00:48, Dwade Reinsch <dreinsch@swbell.net> wrote:
=EF=BB= =BF
This a= fternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat.  Had the radio and inside lights on.  When she finished and came out, car would not start= .  Completely dead.  Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc.

Here's= the question:  In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.  This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.  Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.  = Would not start with good set of booster cables.  Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.  So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home.

Does a= nyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being stranded?  (Battery is about 4 years old.)


If use= d properly, the conductance testers work well.  Not cheap, but every auto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is accessible.  Many cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, have state of charge and battery perform= ance information tracked by the computer.  (OnStar sent me email telling me the battery is low when I left my car on to listen to the ballgame at a campsite. I also get a monthly email, which told me to replace the batter= y for a couple months before I actually had it replaced.)

Modern= cars have much higher loads at start time, and lots of them require a reasonably good voltage to turn the computer on.  Without that, the car won=E2=80=99t do anyth= ing (the computer controls the starter solenoid on most cars).  The variou= s computers also control all the other parts, which is why the seat couldn=E2= =80=99t move.

This f= all, I drove my wife=E2=80=99s fusion to the garage to do the brakes. I turned off and on a couple times to get it spotted in the right spot. The third time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier, it fired on instantly, with no slow cranking.  Since I was in the garage, I had a battery charger handy. 10.2 volts or something like that. Putting the charger on lowest setting let it start.  Plenty of joules in the battery, just not enough voltag= e to turn the ecm on. (I replaced the battery before pulling it out of the garage, it was 4 or 5 years old.)
___________________________________= ____________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
ml" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team= .net/donate.html
Archive: http:/= /www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc= hive

x.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric@megageek.com" rel=3D"nofollow" ta= rget=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/= shop-talk/eric@megageek.com
------=_Part_1171981_1877657208.1705154623223-- --===============6045521725535021013== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============6045521725535021013==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 13 09:22:43 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BC68A0754 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 09:22:43 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-a1p-077721.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.103.146.58]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05353A0537 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 08:30:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-a1p-077049.sys.comcast.net ([96.103.145.227]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resqmta-a1p-077721.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id OfYPrS5P3ogyoOfyDrO2Sr; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 15:30:49 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1705159849; bh=0NqKJtvDONTD4vld9OeEUY3WRBA+SxOeiiJ3w5cDnp0=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From:Xfinity-Spam-Result; b=2cr3TBMCQPV+FR1UhQNyXFn1/h2nGoiqCEF3hb4WwfUQsWffP8LYszzrgCz959smj vJgG6GeRcN44MLTA/82WlTMvPJOCmaGFYLYgcwRXJ72bmn8GKVnpKQqZFcr9i4Cz9/ q1eHG8Z9L0CcVjlOh+fIWsRsL7Ov8z/HX17aS2V9kYg+c+OYj/XOHuub9eFfdWvcVB pHlkKT9lAY2J8sVzUwEfyZBkrsBlSyjXzTAmnhEhzOkg7wm68W3llUABimAFxvFbCV m/6d3MN8AxYGHOeBtm9GOVe1oLsGo9MJs/WA5LdFoX1nHLyP46HYW7HAk7QH6ztC52 oX7Flwkjcdxeg== Received: from [192.168.1.119] ([104.153.206.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resomta-a1p-077049.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id OfxkrWueLlsTQOfxlr4suk; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 15:30:25 +0000 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 07:30:20 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> <6E660B9F-228C-4E54-9B59-975B7DD07E40@gmail.com> <293333551.1114819.1705118801621@mail.yahoo.com> From: Bob Spidell 3biVSs9+ozeT6SbY+1LUMgTepeH9hc62KSmbmdUxAY+Zp3sZkNa2gGDuvGAlvT3jYuqM11IIFiUXfoVdG/PsgoBOlamRgSArWPA= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0914771485465532223== boundary="------------wrM9Y6Ys00fqGHi0CZ0CCI6h" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------wrM9Y6Ys00fqGHi0CZ0CCI6h Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Other makes do this as well. Modern cars have a 'battery management system' or similar because so much is now run on electricity--steering, for instance--that you have to have assured power at all times. I learnt of all this when I asked a simple (I thought) question on a Mustang forum about using a 12V source in parallel so I wouldn't lose all my settings--drive mode, satellite, etc.--when I needed to swap a leaker. F150s, for example, have a pretty elaborate process to even charge a battery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A After a lengthy, er, discussion I said 'F-it' and just swapped batteries like I always have; I lost my custom drive mode but was none the worse off for wear. But, I recommend you read your owners' manual before doing anything on the electrical system of a car built in the last 10 years or so. Bob On 1/13/2024 1:54 AM, Moose wrote: > One more note of stupidity on this topic.  Modern Range Rover requires > their computer to change a battery! > > That's right, you need to tell their computer there is a new battery. > > I'm not sure if other makes are going this way, but it is one item on > the long list of reasons I'll never own another RR! > > Moose > > > > From: Dwade Reinsch > To: David Scheidt , old dirtbeard > > Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" > Date: 01/12/2024 23:12 > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. > Sent by: "Shop-talk" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Thanks to all who added to my knowledge base for modern cars and > batteries. > > I replaced the old battery the next morning, started right up, and > continues to run perfectly.  I guess I'll just have to have battery > tested after about three years of use. > > Thanks again!! > > Dwade > > > > On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 04:10:50 PM CST, old dirtbeard > wrote: > > > Hi David, > > Yes, I do understand about the lead acid chargers. I have accumulated > many over the last 50 years. 🙂 > > Best, > > Doug > mobile > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Shop-talk on behalf of > David Scheidt * > Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM* > To:* Dwade Reinsch * > Cc:* shop-talk@autox.team.net * > Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. > > > > On Jan 10, 2024, at 00:48, Dwade Reinsch wrote: > >  > This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for > granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the > front seat.  Had the radio and inside lights on.  When she finished > and came out, car would not start.  Completely dead.  Electric seat > would not come back to driving position, etc. > > Here's the question:  In the old days a weak battery would give notice > by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.  This is the car I drive > regularly and it gave NO warning.  Luckily, I could call son-in-law > and he came to help.  Would not start with good set of booster cables. >  Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before > attempting to start.  So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and > pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home. > > Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before > being stranded?  (Battery is about 4 years old.) > > > If used properly, the conductance testers work well.  Not cheap, but > every auto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is > accessible.  Many cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, > have state of charge and battery performance information tracked by > the computer.  (OnStar sent me email telling me the battery is low > when I left my car on to listen to the ballgame at a campsite. I also > get a monthly email, which told me to replace the battery for a couple > months before I actually had it replaced.) > > Modern cars have much higher loads at start time, and lots of them > require a reasonably good voltage to turn the computer on.  Without > that, the car won’t do anything (the computer controls the starter > solenoid on most cars).  The various computers also control all the > other parts, which is why the seat couldn’t move. > > This fall, I drove my wife’s fusion to the garage to do the brakes. I > turned off and on a couple times to get it spotted in the right spot. > The third time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 20 seconds > earlier, it fired on instantly, with no slow cranking.  Since I was in > the garage, I had a battery charger handy. 10.2 volts or something > like that. Putting the charger on lowest setting let it start.  Plenty > of joules in the battery, just not enough voltage to turn the ecm on. > (I replaced the battery before pulling it out of the garage, it was 4 > or 5 years old.) > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation  $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric@megageek.com > > --------------wrM9Y6Ys00fqGHi0CZ0CCI6h Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Other makes do this as well. Modern cars have a 'battery management system' or similar because so much is now run on electricity--steering, for instance--that you have to have assured power at all times. I learnt of all this when I asked a simple (I thought) question on a Mustang forum about using a 12V source in parallel so I wouldn't lose all my settings--drive mode, satellite, etc.--when I needed to swap a leaker. F150s, for example, have a pretty elaborate process to even charge a battery:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A

After a lengthy, er, discussion I said 'F-it' and just swapped batteries like I always have; I lost my custom drive mode but was none the worse off for wear. But, I recommend you read your owners' manual before doing anything on the electrical system of a car built in the last 10 years or so.

Bob


On 1/13/2024 1:54 AM, Moose wrote:
One more note of stupidity on this topic.  Modern Range Rover requires their computer to change a battery!

That's right, you need to tell their computer there is a new battery.

I'm not sure if other makes are going this way, but it is one item on the long list of reasons I'll never own another RR!

Moose



From:        Dwade Reinsch <dreinsch@swbell.net>
To:        David Scheidt <dmscheidt@gmail.com>, old dirtbeard <dirtbeard@gmail.com>
Cc:        "shop-talk@autox.team.net" <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Date:        01/12/2024 23:12
Subject:        Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.
Sent by:        "Shop-talk" <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net>



Thanks to all who added to my knowledge base for modern cars and batteries.

I replaced the old battery the next morning, started right up, and continues to run perfectly.  I guess I'll just have to have battery tested after about three years of use.

Thanks again!!

Dwade



On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 04:10:50 PM CST, old dirtbeard <dirtbeard@gmail.com> wrote:


Hi David,

Yes, I do understand about the lead acid chargers. I have accumulated many over the last 50 years. 🙂

Best,

Doug
mobile

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of David Scheidt <dmscheidt@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM
To: Dwade Reinsch <dreinsch@swbell.net>
Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.
 


On Jan 10, 2024, at 00:48, Dwade Reinsch <dreinsch@swbell.net> wrote:

This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat.  Had the radio and inside lights on.  When she finished and came out, car would not start.  Completely dead.  Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc.

Here's the question:  In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.  This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.  Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.  Would not start with good set of booster cables.  Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.  So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home.

Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being stranded?  (Battery is about 4 years old.)


If used properly, the conductance testers work well.  Not cheap, but every auto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is accessible.  Many cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, have state of charge and battery performance information tracked by the computer.  (OnStar sent me email telling me the battery is low when I left my car on to listen to the ballgame at a campsite. I also get a monthly email, which told me to replace the battery for a couple months before I actually had it replaced.)

Modern cars have much higher loads at start time, and lots of them require a reasonably good voltage to turn the computer on.  Without that, the car won’t do anything (the computer controls the starter solenoid on most cars).  The various computers also control all the other parts, which is why the seat couldn’t move.

This fall, I drove my wife’s fusion to the garage to do the brakes. I turned off and on a couple times to get it spotted in the right spot. The third time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier, it fired on instantly, with no slow cranking.  Since I was in the garage, I had a battery charger handy. 10.2 volts or something like that. Putting the charger on lowest setting let it start.  Plenty of joules in the battery, just not enough voltage to turn the ecm on. (I replaced the battery before pulling it out of the garage, it was 4 or 5 years old.)
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
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--------------wrM9Y6Ys00fqGHi0CZ0CCI6h-- --===============0914771485465532223== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0914771485465532223==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 16 09:39:40 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F9E3A0620 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 09:39:40 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oo1-f44.google.com (unknown [209.85.161.44]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6F8FA05F3 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 09:28:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oo1-f44.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-595d24ad466so5511175eaf.0 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 08:28:32 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1705422512; x=1706027312; darn=autox.team.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=P46ZIMs9ioZ1hfeTdCyQBumcPZo96Ftexe4c+VkqrYE=; b=QSEJJHqXeuZx4xJE8+a1syhHuXr58xNr3szsZjK4k/Y/gHP7G6on1HhpisdJBQdIP0 zlVTU0vdwZMVcUwwgFCwMXPkNYBz7vlEGGHMmdKl6D1WsYfrTTQK0OyfK5REQt1xYBQN O9IIZ0vxgYi/1NcsQk9x5UbTPxZKTUkHsitZoCyki6bC0BxJxkXmFCCxPQpVX/DOsHVR 0zoENA9Cyl9tgquYZHsGhfeRYp4QVjNA58cf4GJqdouVKbjqc/VBbUacjb7/IxKmbhB1 p8Wkkjl23RRwLXcGV1lqoHj5RMVnRQM/3HU1DGxMGMjFJjG5xQosvYDzx1UodzXVmuyY BLHg== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1705422512; x=1706027312; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=P46ZIMs9ioZ1hfeTdCyQBumcPZo96Ftexe4c+VkqrYE=; b=w6w5LrBK67DQ11Kl1f54V8SSi+vAXhhHZwbeexYAsU0XvwYSxM1GQ8LIGv20UuxzFi nnaX8cVAHH0z7KF/+d2QWCENtkL9qH9N1zvtmg+8+WF/3GAy2mmZ8DiUfEBHY9vcvIlj rbnP3vf3QApKiJBCe95c0TqcLXD2yZVOdieGiwZHvutDTf466ssp4MGdNk/p/ySqaw9J gADRDUnTSZbPY1wCdEcIvmj2OR8Ou4hUU/CLSJGvVqofKOR9HjQJPBjRWnUWE4JdnekT K43oTxtpIuaVtBJJ3s2uzJW+32ru0TRc9/BzkDYKpgOB5E3ws8HWejTJOEGg21ESiRlA MZPQ== VCxCZd33V3CgkA/vb1zvwqCrgj6ubvRdjM8Y4QY= cz20-20020a056870649400b0020733d2545bmr6984679oab.69.1705422512099; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 08:28:32 -0800 (PST) References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> <84555058-c96c-4560-a45a-1c0298b22ce4@comcast.net> From: Philip Ethier Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 10:27:55 -0600 To: Bob Spidell Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============5394374620063346317== --000000000000069753060f129fe0 > keep your battery topped-up without overcharging, but claim to perform a 'desulfation' cycle periodically Sidebar: If you happen to have any lithium batteries in anything, do not use a charger with a 'desulfation' cycle'. --000000000000069753060f129fe0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>=C2=A0keep your=C2=A0battery=C2=A0topped-up without overcharging, but claim to perform a 'desulfat= ion' cycle periodically

Sidebar:=C2=A0 If you happen to have any lithium ba= tteries in anything, do not use a charger with a=C2=A0'desulfation&= #39; cycle'.

<= /div> --000000000000069753060f129fe0-- --===============5394374620063346317== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5394374620063346317==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 16 09:58:27 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE222A0624 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 09:58:27 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pj1-f52.google.com (unknown [209.85.216.52]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2E16A050C for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 09:49:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-pj1-f52.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-28c179bf45cso8357936a91.1 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 08:49:19 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1705423759; x=1706028559; darn=autox.team.net; h=mime-version:content-language:accept-language:in-reply-to :references:message-id:date:thread-index:thread-topic:subject:cc:to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=R00GOC33NFK88+Vf7xrcKI8wfKZXJJ7XKZa/oG5K2OU=; b=lL8LbN9O21eLhdbeemUN+8qBTPSREsqLmFoRob/lUr3f+FnCEUcZUA/G0Y8X6V6FAU Jgfb2xhfcAKgdNuDKbS+5SqhqTT9bJgOEleO59cM2qktPTvA0luvDM20RakrL7VPGVsm vFtbhvcqWrcx9VHs2cXdtFv9JYTa8VL9z22Gjk7jH8yLWZT+u/E137QiNSKpILf4wSfg 9VCGWzCwgoqNPiwvMV6weseO3R6kvxKprJm4evHEnVPMMgU++ejCgUVYAS5mlUBqB+Lb EEmi6b2MwEkWYo7Zo5kY7HWUBtPTj3rKQJntv4wlHxViT/DEEHd6YX2wMRZUk5zKK9vU NBnA== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1705423759; x=1706028559; h=mime-version:content-language:accept-language:in-reply-to :references:message-id:date:thread-index:thread-topic:subject:cc:to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=R00GOC33NFK88+Vf7xrcKI8wfKZXJJ7XKZa/oG5K2OU=; b=ud56nZfmLovtUSMrEDr44yrTK/XM0r+HGX3duyiIXVqJef/8G75OrI7Bl2Zz9e8Gqg Mj5C+7hIL9xNGAl5X6ZLfnFokoqpR3Y1W7l9OOamEMLkz21WQcoqhgarcDqI2Znx1MJ2 PkDk8PwjyezrFNnPna+9xGYo1cMiAdoppLiFxeRROlqwLWQMP1/2oFtFainB5T+o9jXW g2XLSDzdegqDVVDzdAkM5VglGFsxXECh3uQVBY8gWmiHD8kl/haMdnh833R/gqpSOhEv 0StB2o61sFjFGu/TWatDVwblq6Tjt9g/OjYzMDpy23/VBMGX2CQCJQ97J82+L9GS2eMa Ya3w== z36m71Abdg6UqMXowF+haeE= p2-20020a17090ab90200b0028d19ff5e3fmr5118756pjr.86.1705423759229; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 08:49:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from BYAPR04MB6053.namprd04.prod.outlook.com ([2603:1036:307:28f0::5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ph13-20020a17090b3bcd00b0028c94f78c07sm14473323pjb.30.2024.01.16.08.49.18 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 16 Jan 2024 08:49:19 -0800 (PST) From: old dirtbeard To: Philip Ethier , Bob Spidell Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Thread-Index: AQHaQ8YAAKuIqXJOt0qGEEWAt2mFwbDTB5+AgAA6CwCACWi0gIAABZCU Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 16:49:18 +0000 References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> <84555058-c96c-4560-a45a-1c0298b22ce4@comcast.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2435783419251351351== Content-Language: en-US boundary="_000_BYAPR04MB605376B3A033C7501556BF1CAB732BYAPR04MB6053namp_" --_000_BYAPR04MB605376B3A033C7501556BF1CAB732BYAPR04MB6053namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, that mode will damage Li-Ion batteries. Best, Doug mobile ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Philip Ethi= er Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2024 8:27:55 AM To: Bob Spidell Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. > keep your battery topped-up without overcharging, but claim to perform a = 'desulfation' cycle periodically Sidebar: If you happen to have any lithium batteries in anything, do not u= se a charger with a 'desulfation' cycle'. --_000_BYAPR04MB605376B3A033C7501556BF1CAB732BYAPR04MB6053namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, that mode will damage Li-Ion batteries. 

Best,

Doug
mobile
From: Shop-talk <shop-ta= lk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Philip Ethier <pethier7@gmail= .com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2024 8:27:55 AM
To: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.
 
> keep= your battery topped-up without overcharging, but claim to perform a 'desulfation' cycle periodica= lly

Sidebar: = ; If you happen to have any lithium batteries in anything, do not use a cha= rger with a 'desulfation' cycle'.

--_000_BYAPR04MB605376B3A033C7501556BF1CAB732BYAPR04MB6053namp_-- --===============2435783419251351351== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2435783419251351351==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 24 06:20:42 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9BEAA0327 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 06:20:42 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from hognose1.porkbun.com (unknown [35.82.102.206]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A74DA0736 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 06:11:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (pool-108-20-234-105.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [108.20.234.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by hognose1.porkbun.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2F2774448C for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 13:10:47 +0000 (UTC) s=default; t=1706101849; bh=GaB4nAE4P3yj6wq6tolNIbxM9uFmBWDLxd7leSAlDUA=; h=From:Subject:Date:To; b=ZRFEsC6cbUqzhsWV5eYtgp+8lz1FTxI6YWiWjaR9SnIwr9dvXolU1enB+94cSJuQE pjm6jqK/n/FMjXGKUVSZvyAfDte8Kq+fMt+2SICzYsG1zFYzikMZDvkMQeVFDXOxLu EQilEM62t6yPty1v2vuPqk0oCqn9rvV2HpyrsJAU= From: Jim Franklin Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 08:10:35 -0500 To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 24 06:50:16 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5BCCA08C3 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 06:50:16 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pg1-f169.google.com (unknown [209.85.215.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E7F1A07FC for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 06:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-pg1-f169.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-5d3912c9a83so1072077a12.3 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 05:42:12 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1706103732; x=1706708532; darn=autox.team.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=OAEuu60meoFRsIWppZQWNhf5fnbRtbHCZjcEbnpK9DI=; b=UK6LlDziK4VRc1fjZ82BV9/vqMukn2oWEyxYr5B9QF46l9+XDhBSsYIW8dChOcTfKM JjIcAOt47WqMLd6TiF5AQFS82QtIxDp7cZ7RwnAMGk7bs520o8oB8z0FRdToRwtdmoKp tRASd0oP8hzdiXOoKeZu5jaANlLFkEa097n2kR0CBWCiPbKpAC7GXAFskSr0Cy0LBtha 7ayjDzO4r4JX5t0w4Ju6kl6DzFmUfLYBW7M6LJxd0ddSDy84jaNwPrE72Rh+ELC3Xrrx Sg43OHmZFT83aDKcYgY5gRjZPirmpPdRKCxuLzdcFIOzPT1VyISx4nU6SCzhnyvIY+cS hQDg== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706103732; x=1706708532; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=OAEuu60meoFRsIWppZQWNhf5fnbRtbHCZjcEbnpK9DI=; b=T6JOrcvbXmMZs/M+39Uxpbxp4raZhtiljlP2DFOqHxy5G9bxsWw4MmLyxdAsGVtxHa 3WvRWgQRn3S5jOA7BtibAyK1TBGdTOQx+TIPRk7JEoJQhp3gAiLZTpLN2A5oScTCS70v iPgwGwg+TGowBOpWdQfecSxt3CCqATlrL/F0DYPjm4gWl0W+SsAXp0UcsLgxk5PV2otw 4QWTy2w3JVl9UKtGnnGG+79hRqaVgnSB5VanmNcN9Vhf8J3wk/WJQQEJ5sfJ/KWgf7Gd t+RBzQC3uuSy/Cai+1BrFgjLGrk+GbHHFwQ8UXemJOlJpIt8yWxVWTUFAiYDIZr6A1BP VpHQ== tRJOrOCPJgGIUb2FS+OhlQory36AyRaV06IcspVr8mE4uneK11MPbgJ0knvkkWuq33tlkwyFIlE OoYnVBMeDyeVWstbKrNZTw1ImBa4= c16-20020a056a203b1000b0019af6ef6a69mr522852pzh.87.1706103731579; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 05:42:11 -0800 (PST) References: From: Bruce Bubeck Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 08:42:00 -0500 To: Jim Franklin Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============5301714448064490899== --000000000000def170060fb13a04 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Jim, Whil;e we're at it here's another. Damn mice.. https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/of-mice-and-machines-por= sche-fuses-death-traps-and-imagination-gone-awry/ On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 8:15=E2=80=AFAM Jim Franklin wrote: > > https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perp= lexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bbubeck01@gmail.com > > --000000000000def170060fb13a04 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 8:15=E2=80=AFAM Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org> wrote:<= br>
https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners= -perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/bbubeck01@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bbubeck01@gmail.com

--000000000000def170060fb13a04-- --===============5301714448064490899== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5301714448064490899==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 24 07:06:50 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88E1CA0924 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 07:06:50 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ot1-f52.google.com (unknown [209.85.210.52]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99F00A0345 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 07:01:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ot1-f52.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-6e0eed0427cso2178515a34.0 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 06:00:56 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1706104856; x=1706709656; darn=autox.team.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=kWh74PASIC3x/NOwEY7kw19fKqaYwzBt2iKYe7VAfrw=; b=dF9Yi91eHX90GJWsQIxBGy3TAJaM4vwPcko8m/yOJhJShL2sF8hy0AtmRQFHTQhGDN RCB04SAbZnbwXHPFNkYhg7h6HvlLADJulU8wSne7M6Z67ssNZvLn3frwpD3MwRgNiZ11 k1NOwu4V5n4UkB9GKWhCPWWPxnQeuFx55ifw0gd9TG1tJ2BqK2NyqFW847qd7xJLrDiP Ry0KGz22VfOqz0UfAiLjHG3YEMdm/nm2QrzkGmCXaaIOI/+i0iiEYJgZtp4fj80rqqze Q6i7haryhIoE/njwJNUWtUG5R2dd6ZkI5rcr9xmHH8rJFv5TjotVdGNIINrxXNzC7NGA dOCA== d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706104856; x=1706709656; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=kWh74PASIC3x/NOwEY7kw19fKqaYwzBt2iKYe7VAfrw=; b=NiN8LARPN8FcAHUJrVnjeMSRE8xai15Vw7WirMVjkrg97u6eDYFgnIrwG4dbvAatWX sr5emZIrJcK6Sw/SX3Yjb0jKnKsyEIqdVwBJf7utHyMzQzj6v3GxHxs8gIM7ufh7ZriX rBqTG0HeXfzNfsr7Ralep09kwgt4El45hO9joAdAmn/BoqnC7sXeWub8lwA8Bg61VbMu 7HHOhra/f6o4JIayaBz+GHyseeMDG9E0aY2+RwwZWhZ/0Zp/Q7ToVlWdt3+o7bF2QM2K 0m2jwmf2gldxPlJCzjQGvVNlsWUNYb5fhXBF9LOvqmgBw0u3ITvP6JkTX5nala+H5MpO wBfg== tCGXk6MpwCUzwEQLKHV89O9dSkYcvpGWcuZxY7y3hIqlGYcGbrPugqS1pAXyjoUwn59r1FQl4rt 1iyWCfZNDLYcpNqRtrFX1G8rQwoF+SVy0 l6-20020a056870218600b002064a5a7447mr3278278oae.80.1706104855219; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 06:00:55 -0800 (PST) References: From: old dirtbeard Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 06:00:44 -0800 To: Jim Franklin Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============6215186042754877870== --000000000000d86451060fb17d76 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Laguna Seca is a treasure. It is like the folks who build a home next to a dairy farm and then try to shut down the farm's operations because they do not like the odor. Shame on them... On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 5:27=E2=80=AFAM Jim Franklin wrote: > > https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perp= lexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com > > --000000000000d86451060fb17d76 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lag= una Seca is a treasure. It is like the folks who build a home next to a dai= ry farm and then try to shut down the farm's operations because they do= not like the odor. Shame on them...

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 5:27=E2= =80=AFAM Jim Franklin <jamesf@= groupwbench.org> wrote:
https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion= /laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes= -overnight/
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/dirtbeard@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com

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To: Jim Franklin , Shop Talk Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Thread-Index: AQHaTsir8O5lYKTAEUWoybUX/VRCFLDpCUx0 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 14:42:07 +0000 References: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US msip_labels: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [PuIdahywNBc/LNwbPV+YUCAdZ9u/pmB3A1wHwQd5ZOjJIuHDPS99fPAauUTmleAVsw8ZzQr4oas=] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN6PR14MB7197:EE_|DM6PR14MB3901:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 529675df-479d-489b-17a3-08dc1ceaa394 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?iso-8859-1?Q?O61aKUpYmwuM316DDoBnR2zXiPeyP2a6/RtkQwwxLxrVGb4swRwyEJs0AC?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?S3LGFlsevpzMLqsJ72+UajjqcJJV3A1pev7zvedmbmlQoP8XEU1kFUXVNw?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?nc1+3azrEodt4bdGzgMBRbMI2Fdsk0TH1TSr+31SndYni7PtQMG8x+zRIT?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?4t8CL7fqqGoYFKzNJ54PH+2YZBbnhS6fFkY12hxk35xw5d97GWxHE6h1+y?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?QfqBxmMkn6M/IMM9Os/SHvref1MmMqMr7LnM6sCB9FzoNULCYCqfO/xtWD?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?8cnw3gXzqzD+pJBuZu6HgwfFpzCh91stw1abYgtD86QMriz10Sa4kxt/cz?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?dNRLidZY85wBIt80Ow4ZVtOcA0GXXR4dAqY2w9ZHRv3eYC9Wm7C/xzWu1X?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?aeAkK1y5NtMmEbVBmatWif7097NTSQZkvb6tvvV/6k/XWKEyGIfrX5Y3d2?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ax+HU2SoV1TJUePMHr1JESuKBSeOKbGCW1aIc+qrzQi5goR9qyekkB/kK3?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?08CwfxdKkplg+56qQT0K+Lb8D2EilgnK8gstLbMdLh5fYRwR/hk0m/5efH?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?xez/r3DUM5fhE1LJevmdtKo4lTubsabglAeQhMMZyPLtdS7brfdmfpgOwd?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?ET/jBAZSvcjzi+Cmbz4V4m860W2PJ0SOEcOT6vbRsEQKxgrujJx/A/qizK?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?YBc7n0ywYLADV/eCLdadbDV0jMDf5LbG3xCr5XryrGHKagjAkOhW//Qceb?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?MxQIkT3Tj8cZiDbBErGqIkp/gtQ/NshoFZ+K31QLQ/kFie83KfdiQX7VfA?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?iLI+7Y5xCu3xOdn2gALNhNmpS2h7PMBw1xlS8roREo9M5rt9FbhzyG7MBc?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?pHpnveX50/BCGubudWoFYuTBFemJBjb/bavMpqrrP5JJhx7OxKpnbWyOsw?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?LXhSSp0j2L+S2a5D0KOd/wLu22lMAOFCkmHl21TT2IlRrlozTf904Az+Ru?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?FNYygFEKQ1G/krbkrgMzifzQh+k9XylJLfKa7L45vSuDfTDh/5NZk0iAi8?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?h3inOOI9oGldhXXVWAEIoCmvKaetcRCf0vxoce16MrbmdV52htWiTfV6ML?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?CtZwwHd99AiKSjgX0ci1uXqJS/o0EOFX3obijNiHJyS+OX5dw8Jzih82ko?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?uo1tlndBv1uXSKNOieV32YcRbcMrRT5JIRsdwDfDCYOLsWDvNDz1/PV4UT?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?gXG+eFcSZz2LMqxX43nwY4jFN6VUG/g4Jui3UfRWNBB1t4ju9IFxg5j+HH?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?G2P0Fjj7NNR6TTawRvUZ3Yy0Mm/4/6Y9KRUVqItb6UIBbXE=3D?= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0768892338255175004== Content-Language: en-US boundary="_000_MN6PR14MB7197E96D915F1066AB3A5E76B47B2MN6PR14MB7197namp_" --_000_MN6PR14MB7197E96D915F1066AB3A5E76B47B2MN6PR14MB7197namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Jim Frankli= n Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perple= xed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive tsun_stuff@outlook.com --_000_MN6PR14MB7197E96D915F1066AB3A5E76B47B2MN6PR14MB7197namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. 

From: Shop-t= alk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Jim Franklin <= jamesf@groupwbench.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day
 
https://www.hagerty.com/media= /opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-mate= rializes-overnight/
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
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http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1122489177195447453==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 24 10:00:43 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F1EA0615 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:00:43 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from ms11p00im-qufo17291601.me.com (unknown [17.58.38.45]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B1FBA06B5 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 09:56:09 -0700 (MST) s=1a1hai; t=1706115357; bh=flAMpV9M2rLc3kBNUKcbb1sFSUZCUfVDPKkwHjN92yo=; h=Content-Type:Subject:Mime-Version:From:Date:Message-Id:To; b=g4aE5icvyPdciIjEOqdcwuBu+Eokd9+yn2cFMI8yUmXmgNCa9gwGq0rbC2EjpkfkF 504hw0V76v2lhg7dzTTNkCSPeUWsIgEKrApc05EpM6PUfN1f6IkafW2bA3opwYCZJa U3L672LYgmENjD+1gpfGFiZCjsFtiyny3PK2lz1HZMuHpoZvfvb0FY8D92uhDm8aRU 2KDXimYW3dE7BR93zP+vEHn45bgldFUQJyH1ycGje4j1hiYm3exP8b89Ua+WkIF/12 PHzZbgKU+jVaMf4SHCA21WV6ny1I+CRkDuvlCGCaypkcMmp1rXav74OCDZ/PloHUhW Sl6gWmVWPxaZA== Received: from smtpclient.apple (ms11p00im-dlb-asmtpmailmevip.me.com [17.57.154.19]) by ms11p00im-qufo17291601.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CBFFF3A0315; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 16:55:56 +0000 (UTC) From: Pat Horne Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:55:44 -0600 References: To: old dirtbeard engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.1011,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2024-01-24_06,2024-01-24_01,2023-05-22_02 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2308100000 definitions=main-2401240124 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0871858149480324502== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-1A5C205D-AC7C-487B-BA87-7B05F25EFF93 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A friend of mine lived by the Austin Tx airport years ago & some new neighbo= rs came by asking him to sign a petition to have the airport moved. It had b= een there for about 60 years! Some people! Pat Horne=20 We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 24, 2024, at 10:51=E2=80=AFAM, old dirtbeard wr= ote: =EF=BB=BF It is tongue in cheek. =F0=9F=98=89 Best, Doug mobile From: Shop-talk on behalf of Tim . Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 6:42:07 AM To: Jim Franklin ; Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day =20 Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion.=20 From: Shop-talk on behalf of Jim Franklin= Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day =20 https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplex= ed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi= ve sun_stuff@outlook.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi= ve as@icloud.com --Apple-Mail-1A5C205D-AC7C-487B-BA87-7B05F25EFF93 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A friend of mine lived by the Austin Tx air= port years ago & some new neighbors came by asking him to sign a petitio= n to have the airport moved. It had been there for about 60 years!
Some p= eople!

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Jan 24, 2024, at 10:51=E2=80=AFAM, old dirtbeard &= lt;dirtbeard@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
It is tongue in cheek. =F0=9F=98=89

Best,

Doug
mobile
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk= -bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff@outlook= .com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 6:42:07 AM
To: Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org>; Shop Talk <shop-t= alk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day=
 
Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. 
=

From: Shop-talk <= ;shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Jim Franklin <jamesf@g= roupwbench.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day
 
https://www.hagerty.com/media/opi= nion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materiali= zes-overnight/
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= --Apple-Mail-1A5C205D-AC7C-487B-BA87-7B05F25EFF93-- --===============0871858149480324502== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0871858149480324502==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 24 10:18:38 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C8B8A0A3B for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:18:38 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from smtp-out-2.talktalk.net (unknown [62.24.135.66]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EDD1A0681 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:14:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([92.24.214.156]) by smtp.talktalk.net with SMTP id SgperOjpqgX9NSgpfrDMbI; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 17:14:35 +0000 s=cmr1711; t=1706116475; bh=6eWbRk3o6ToMElQb2gsZ0kQD7EJ+7n9NgKIKjukspoc=; h=Date:From:To:CC:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=YkYqVAWLC4PUyqoetWKj7f0DgDlAysBfLtLYxbaN6OYLOkNc625baUidPzD37qVJG cMRb5jXZFkR/qldWqBYezY7nfXU4cPt5u/4Vkl4/LQuz54ugVgUO1TqvN75DgXpBhx rmXeOvpCARedH/0vFd72mkbcLspsJrawwHv7r7Sk= a=9Oilh2AaTP2IdB2aclZHZQ==:17 a=v3ZZPjhaAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=UqCG9HQmAAAA:8 a=8GN4XRofAAAA:8 a=64dIrEQsAAAA:8 a=2-W-XVDqSw1__aKfGywA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=m3MdUl94G8cA:10 a=U5eTpNKu4F55AGiU:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=GGGinmgZRQXmVEG1E52S:22 a=QZXuIX1PnW53n7rKCAoH:22 a=okuiNQlQ0jA9Bz7ovj_I:22 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 17:14:35 +0000 From: neiljsherry@talktalk.net To: shop-talk@autox.team.net, Pat Horne , old dirtbeard User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android References: <8085A206-1917-47B4-A0D3-8EAEC2EFEE9F@icloud.com> 1oAT0oJC3wtX3XB5m5fED5zac9CYs6CnlnWysSXGS8/YRjeTNJuWmgpTxZ93/T0ukpWQLpy+HlDpnX1sJq1YiC19VucUuJItjHY0+9Gm7z4WZd82VR5E1HOQ +NrRIr8RloaVCqLimbytJw== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1687996697091537117== boundary=----S4FTE1I91GAJBI3OO68S6T1QXKLZA6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------S4FTE1I91GAJBI3OO68S6T1QXKLZA6 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =2E=2E=2Eand our local race track (Mallory Park, UK) had exactly this type = of complaint a few years ago=2E People also move in next to churches and co= mplain about the bells being rung=2E On 24 January 2024 16:55:44 GMT, Pat Horne wrote= : >A friend of mine lived by the Austin Tx airport years ago & some new neig= hbors came by asking him to sign a petition to have the airport moved=2E It= had been there for about 60 years! >Some people! > >Pat Horne=20 >We support Habitat for Humanity > > >On Jan 24, 2024, at 10:51=E2=80=AFAM, old dirtbeard wrote: > >=EF=BB=BF >It is tongue in cheek=2E =F0=9F=98=89 > >Best, > >Doug >mobile >From: Shop-talk on behalf of Tim = =2E >Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 6:42:07 AM >To: Jim Franklin ; Shop Talk >Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day >=20 >Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion=2E=20 > >From: Shop-talk on behalf of Jim F= ranklin >Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM >To: Shop Talk >Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day >=20 >https://www=2Ehagerty=2Ecom/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-= perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk@autox=2Eteam=2Enet >Donate: http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/donate=2Ehtml >Suggested annual donation $12=2E96 >Archive: http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox=2Eteam= =2Enet/archive > >Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox=2Eteam=2Enet/mailman/options/shop-talk/t= ims_datsun_stuff@outlook=2Ecom > >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk@autox=2Eteam=2Enet >Donate: http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/donate=2Ehtml >Suggested annual donation $12=2E96 >Archive: http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox=2Eteam= =2Enet/archive > >Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox=2Eteam=2Enet/mailman/options/shop-talk/p= atintexas@icloud=2Ecom > --=20 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E ------S4FTE1I91GAJBI3OO68S6T1QXKLZA6 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=2E=2E=2Eand our loca= l race track (Mallory Park, UK) had exactly this type of complaint a few ye= ars ago=2E People also move in next to churches and complain about the bell= s being rung=2E


On 24 January 2024 16:55:44 GMT, Pat Horne <patintexas@icloud=2Ecom&g= t; wrote:
A friend of mine lived by the Austin Tx airport years ago & some new n= eighbors came by asking him to sign a petition to have the airport moved=2E= It had been there for about 60 years!
Some people!

Pat Horne 
We s= upport Habitat for Humanity


= On Jan 24, 2024, at 10:51=E2=80=AFAM, old dirtbeard <dirtbeard@gmail=2Ec= om> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
It is tongue in cheek=2E =F0=9F=98=89

Best,

Doug
mobile
From: Shop-talk <shop-t= alk-bounces@autox=2Eteam=2Enet> on behalf of Tim =2E <tims_datsun_stu= ff@outlook=2Ecom>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 6:42:07 AM
To: Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench=2Eorg>; Shop Talk <sh= op-talk@autox=2Eteam=2Enet>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day
 
Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion=2E 

From: Shop-talk = <shop-talk-bounces@autox=2Eteam=2Enet> on behalf of Jim Franklin <= jamesf@groupwbench=2Eorg>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk@autox=2Eteam=2Enet>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day
 
https://www=2Ehagerty=2E= com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-t= rack-materializes-overnight/
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox=2Eteam=2Enet
Applicable" id=3D"OWA9ce95da1-025a-f6de-129a-0b633b210897" class=3D"x_OWAAu= toLink"> http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/donate=2Ehtml
Archive: http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox=2Eteam=2Enet/archive

hop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff@outlook=2Ecom" data-auth=3D"NotApplicable" id=3D= "OWAe501322f-0d97-cec6-7a24-449f2b97d058" class=3D"x_OWAAutoLink"> http://autox=2Eteam=2Enet/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff@outl= ook=2Ecom

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Shop-talk@autox=2Eteam=2Enet
Donate: http://ww= w=2Eteam=2Enet/donate=2Ehtml
Suggested annual donation &nbs= p;$12=2E96
Archive: http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/pipermail/shop-= talk http://autox=2Eteam=2Enet/archive

Uns= ubscribe/Manage: http://autox=2Eteam=2Enet/mailman/options/shop-talk/patint= exas@icloud=2Ecom

--
Sent from my Andr= oid device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E
<= /html> ------S4FTE1I91GAJBI3OO68S6T1QXKLZA6-- --===============1687996697091537117== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1687996697091537117==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 24 10:38:37 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 060B2A0B09 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:38:37 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-a1p-077722.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.103.146.55]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE9F4A09F3 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:15:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-a1p-076783.sys.comcast.net ([96.103.145.231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resqmta-a1p-077722.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id Sgh0rjOkTq0zdSgq8rIXBF; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 17:15:04 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1706116504; bh=0ZUhU3+tf7INWuGsmwY6QmFXYS2jA4eUmf0xrZmZaBQ=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From:Xfinity-Spam-Result; b=x2tja7GnUU36OHCinIjKxnVJlxFhE4E9Xcje2gHE5IO1XNDQZ8Y+KdMkgvEWg1k2a wFlr7Rm1i3oZ/RwP9fo7tRujbqlTxBT+zWzr6ujxrL3VfwaOUiEtZE4PohTI90gvk4 NM4oueomCxbQiiZ5mTW2977hy4oBLbsxbJLdkmHM9P9Q15ZguxgqfCot510LAyFqcw 5xu+WVJpD9agp2LxhW4VD0U8weUyTikibAQLRN6CZGFbtte4UIgivC91lOUkNrSTy1 bw1Uku1MDoGij88IC+fq0bTp4qKP5kG1lvS5nkSLgqfd8BE9xLCR1bgJuRoDiiAxm6 bbQnfVzpNE67A== Received: from [192.168.1.119] ([104.153.206.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resomta-a1p-076783.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id Sgper3etIepslSgpfrURJp; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 17:14:40 +0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 09:14:35 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: From: Bob Spidell K42ryBcxWBBsozaCT1V3SSbcglIu/z+y2tV30Cd3pXiXEMFg7v5p6ip76PV/xoAbIGtEUHzTj+chClX+lCL8rP9BiWOUVyzzW/E= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============6017500209213163599== boundary="------------3Ov0uRZ0aQew6vOk7lEY0Uuh" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3Ov0uRZ0aQew6vOk7lEY0Uuh Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think the lawsuit might be real, but Hagerty is torching the people behind it. Same shit happens near airports; most notably Reid-Hillview in the Bay Area. The mayor of Chicago at the time--I think he had Mafia connections--had Meigs Field torn up overnight, illegally, but was never held accountable. I'm waiting for someone in Daly City to file a lawsuit to shut down SFO. On 1/24/2024 6:42 AM, Tim . wrote: > Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Shop-talk on behalf of Jim > Franklin > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM > *To:* Shop Talk > *Subject:* [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day > https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ > > > --------------3Ov0uRZ0aQew6vOk7lEY0Uuh Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think the lawsuit might be real, but Hagerty is torching the people behind it. Same shit happens near airports; most notably Reid-Hillview in the Bay Area. The mayor of Chicago at the time--I think he had Mafia connections--had Meigs Field torn up overnight, illegally, but was never held accountable. I'm waiting for someone in Daly City to file a lawsuit to shut down SFO.



On 1/24/2024 6:42 AM, Tim . wrote:
Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. 

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day
 

--------------3Ov0uRZ0aQew6vOk7lEY0Uuh-- --===============6017500209213163599== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============6017500209213163599==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 24 14:43:12 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A851A0B0B for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 14:43:12 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from chumdrop.sackheads.org (unknown [159.203.76.21]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E26FA0AAF for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 12:54:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chumdrop.sackheads.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A76CA22085D for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 14:54:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from chumdrop.sackheads.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (chumdrop.sackheads.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uPFdr7cwBTsI for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 14:54:02 -0500 (EST) s=2022-US; t=1706126042; bh=DPqJWL2IZk/2zu3uNDo3Y66C3n3+jiFB/oMHbQ3w71E=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=fkFsjdm1v2k2LPY62fNeYBRzWr+LaF0uWCqiY1svbsF+XaR3x33xod9Efd//0nDia Ns1qvdiWr5HARi3D3eOczgeFLKi3PalllQtCU4erS8g8oqiTWDw5lHvVNSPK9+4yYB MTrFxRNrCBxjrfCpgWY0xa7RIAge67zO3LI/6MGKT7GW9f1eyT0XaCLnWev0seqDIf s93UNGrPLSzADX1zj7W6wAf53BNW13HsvS2EnTKpsIGY5w9+CwhcuBlQaOrr1YVzSK WFTeOu5kv6DRU21tzAuEI3I7THgMb6TR6PdusQFYaqgaGTkCIJrX1AywBWDeTmgAp1 I0WqKeQ3neFTg== Received: from [10.0.1.4] (024-209-025-219.res.spectrum.com [24.209.25.219]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jimmie@sackheads.org) by chumdrop.sackheads.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5C21222083C for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 14:54:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 14:54:00 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: Content-Language: en-US From: Jimmie Mayfield Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============5962836107947243559== boundary="------------QH0PjINw26v7y4HndFMGnzw7" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------QH0PjINw26v7y4HndFMGnzw7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I Googled the lawsuit and it looks to be real.  The gist seems to be the homeowners are complaining that the track has begun scheduling events much more frequently than they have historically. On 1/24/24 09:42, Tim . wrote: > Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Shop-talk on behalf of Jim > Franklin > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM > *To:* Shop Talk > *Subject:* [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day > https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation  $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+shoptalk@sackheads.org > --------------QH0PjINw26v7y4HndFMGnzw7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I Googled the lawsuit and it looks to be real.  The gist seems to be the homeowners are complaining that the track has begun scheduling events much more frequently than they have historically.


On 1/24/24 09:42, Tim . wrote:
Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. 

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day
 

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive


--------------QH0PjINw26v7y4HndFMGnzw7-- --===============5962836107947243559== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5962836107947243559==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 24 15:11:26 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F176AA0AFC for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 15:11:25 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qs51p00im-qukt01071901.me.com (unknown [17.57.155.8]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2CBAA09EF for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 13:11:23 -0700 (MST) s=1a1hai; t=1706127072; bh=TVUrAct44WQTh11rco6z+WflwHfAgCgcEsLj16bQYPI=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:Date:Message-Id:To; b=oL8jrffhKigQxz9ukaagYMOdSXEGw6wNx5Q/T9zMX7eyXiQDYAbLVTZTT0nLBDqpX QMycQS4FYU9n88QKlnSKU+DIKVhrXIBzd3LpMRW+Td+BrBhyLPlwMr7W0esGif6EOG +8PMYluTfIYT57bWDAkqCG6/GpCEx26k8XTDdk0MzaTCslnJY2v0B35r5HCqyLrNS0 OG7K0nBPjFZqVIVQRmkyxY228tZGpFyGtDyvVcqQoYZPSPQK7fWvAM/zaliaDisROz 3P+p1pvfxkRdbugYTEkk8Xfbr6A93s1g/e8kdE46veYQRO14w6EoP8kHrn3NNDbhiP H9X5X7JnmzVig== Received: from smtpclient.apple (qs51p00im-dlb-asmtp-mailmevip.me.com [17.57.155.28]) by qs51p00im-qukt01071901.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2D24962805F3; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 20:11:11 +0000 (UTC) From: Thomas Coradeschi Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 15:11:09 -0500 References: To: old dirtbeard engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.1011,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2024-01-24_08,2024-01-24_01,2023-05-22_02 mlxlogscore=983 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2308100000 definitions=main-2401240146 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Cc: Shop Talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net VGhlIGFydGljbGUgaXMgdG9uZ3VlIGluIGNoZWVrLCB0aGUgbGF3c3VpdCBpcyByZWFsLgoK4oCU ClRvbSBDb3JhZGVzY2hpCnRqY29yYUBpY2xvdWQuY29tCgoKPiBPbiAyNCBKYW4gMjAyNCwgYXQg MTE6MzAgQU0sIG9sZCBkaXJ0YmVhcmQgPGRpcnRiZWFyZEBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgo+IAo+ IEl0IGlzIHRvbmd1ZSBpbiBjaGVlay4g8J+YiQo+IAo+IEJlc3QsCj4gCj4gRG91Zwo+IG1vYmls ZQo+IEZyb206IFNob3AtdGFsayA8c2hvcC10YWxrLWJvdW5jZXNAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQ+IG9u IGJlaGFsZiBvZiBUaW0gLiA8dGltc19kYXRzdW5fc3R1ZmZAb3V0bG9vay5jb20+Cj4gU2VudDog V2VkbmVzZGF5LCBKYW51YXJ5IDI0LCAyMDI0IDY6NDI6MDcgQU0KPiBUbzogSmltIEZyYW5rbGlu IDxqYW1lc2ZAZ3JvdXB3YmVuY2gub3JnPjsgU2hvcCBUYWxrIDxzaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gudGVh bS5uZXQ+Cj4gU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtTaG9wLXRhbGtdIFNvbWUgZW50ZXJ0YWlubWVudCBmb3Ig YSB3aW50ZXIncyBkYXkKPiAgCj4gSXMgdGhpcyBhY3R1YWxseSByZWFsPyBUaGlzIHJlYWRzIGxp a2Ugc29tZXRoaW5nIGZyb20gVGhlIE9uaW9uLiAKPiAKPiBGcm9tOiBTaG9wLXRhbGsgPHNob3At dGFsay1ib3VuY2VzQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0PiBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgSmltIEZyYW5rbGluIDxq YW1lc2ZAZ3JvdXB3YmVuY2gub3JnPgo+IFNlbnQ6IFdlZG5lc2RheSwgSmFudWFyeSAyNCwgMjAy NCA3OjEwIEFNCj4gVG86IFNob3AgVGFsayA8c2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Pgo+IFN1 YmplY3Q6IFtTaG9wLXRhbGtdIFNvbWUgZW50ZXJ0YWlubWVudCBmb3IgYSB3aW50ZXIncyBkYXkK PiAgCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGFnZXJ0eS5jb20vbWVkaWEvb3Bpbmlvbi9sYWd1bmEtc2VjYS1s YXdzdWl0LWhvbWVvd25lcnMtcGVycGxleGVkLWFzLWljb25pYy1yYWNlLXRyYWNrLW1hdGVyaWFs aXplcy1vdmVybmlnaHQvCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18KPiAKPiBTaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQKPiBEb25hdGU6IGh0dHA6Ly93 d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwKPiBTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIu OTYKPiBBcmNoaXZlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L3BpcGVybWFpbC9zaG9wLXRhbGsgaHR0 cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L2FyY2hpdmUKPiAKPiBVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6 Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10YWxrL3RpbXNfZGF0c3VuX3N0 dWZmQG91dGxvb2suY29tCj4gCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX18KPiAKPiBTaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQKPiBEb25hdGU6IGh0dHA6 Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwKPiBTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAk MTIuOTYKPiBBcmNoaXZlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L3BpcGVybWFpbC9zaG9wLXRhbGsg aHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L2FyY2hpdmUKPiAKPiBVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0 dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10YWxrL3RqY29yYUBpY2xv dWQuY29tCj4gCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f XwoKU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9k b25hdGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJjaGl2ZTogaHR0 cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9waXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5l dC9hcmNoaXZlCgpVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWls bWFuL29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10YWxrL21oYXJjQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cgo= From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 24 15:27:21 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 017EAA0B0A for ; 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To: Jim Franklin , Shop Talk Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Thread-Index: AQHaTsir8O5lYKTAEUWoybUX/VRCFLDpCUx0gABoHwE= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 20:55:57 +0000 References: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US msip_labels: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [0GeuVA0b+KP5BtMiEmgqPyj9LPmteKq1o0EZT88DHDjNcL+fMIsangCD+ANRVWk+1H8PlYnwk5Q=] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN6PR14MB7197:EE_|BL0PR14MB3521:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: eca9491c-1cdc-4360-4654-08dc1d1edce5 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?iso-8859-1?Q?gHtG0llxfq8bJRnkgnXqns4rQBg57eTppYvbMT6+otuEweOwoRJi+/Fx9v?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?0dXm82YkHQ1K/mGklPricYynhtWb0uP7XGBxW+t3extfScb3eS/Venfeuf?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?HvOvgPTHR55FUWRnljgAklfe6gngD16Jsesj7aGsRi8v2PPN5lQptm8gC/?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?g/sx8nJvYTIKVtJYpCWKID/S6jhmRZK/n6twbZM/bPRPt+JfT9ooFhnZw1?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?vD8rwuENo5Eh1rZ8932hSE3ZHLjAnfZ5ZW/4Fmg+AVu20sQdxqfSm6lzNv?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?J9s/F5Pm7O5yxk8CvS2S2u21lmCdgodGMR2lrdenol7AG54sKr7D2uXBaX?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?iCiQZae7RqUzAAR9heTJbqKtH+eDWmAxVmILbON+dQEYYRY/HsW9bYoGRO?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?guVsqpQZslBZTax/bG3Xii/4xYCEnwcQm9cCeaHhFA5ABYsp+Zuywe40gy?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?7V05KLXmgkldS3NnAGatr9DL8FAQOaZJcZR4Khc/o8rFKE+otjSk+uzo4W?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?xkKyuAiwjxB/eXeLCyr2U5/AwnMsB69rr9Rfh+5oZiNRlm+dNFai6sXK77?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?slv1kz90IpF9gOyq04vIg0xZZYkI9nFSU8rHzxTZvVSdeUrqXvnC4ZEV4j?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?/4uhcwz9GqvgtGGMkYUSmyquHN5WPiXG/Qrq0ETRjahWn3ad3gmB7v42X7?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?IK2jLEc90OBILSdq1BC9qI4egXUKGfUYx4aXoZpuWpaBCSbevpObI0TDPB?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?/JcPBGgNEG/pe+Sd10DXfiZZ2XeyPvL5KBrqNbDnRm17p6HnVi3v0CUG7M?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?0NzjrRueLjqUMxUSGHobu6qoVzMUHA2SpCSM9qVwu9vBsZbaWBLQgEkLq9?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?uOJMU81HKmPhmSjnVXsaqztQrRqaGQ3PHsEwDyWi/IQQQStEtLSNmJVYO+?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?TU9te0APkeXG2EGFkrujcG67oGZzcF0uzrsLgOI9fXCAFWK5LJpw8oKkh7?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?URyhBvVdBFzjYVQ5B15Iak+4KGlelPqK/MclzSt30uBKeabxtL23qFoibr?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?G9G7QxcAaIL7hGhVgK52l6Ooif0b6YX3TU0mdurEo73wHXDcJGPC3v5XWm?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?/W+aNo7m13MsbrKG42edoZDVQYfY3SyqFeJ2VfjroZC0papTSYR3BMforS?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?v8WhRW3K1VttLLW3WsiCB+7nv49VLpfv6K5Y07N8vpAV1n7qPIBxzArLU5?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?WtU3LR7F6c/J3DvLdcxHWKJbG767RhIfuG2sHCZ2qS7GZsVqcYzPThZMz2?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?bRpx6mEsCazbTENol348lsFw4GHVOXWEHBf8cjFdG3klvbA=3D?= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4722939503863414952== Content-Language: en-US boundary="_000_MN6PR14MB71975977C9CD727898034DC9B47B2MN6PR14MB7197namp_" --_000_MN6PR14MB71975977C9CD727898034DC9B47B2MN6PR14MB7197namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I seem to vaguely remember that as housing built up around the Sacramento a= irport many decades ago that this same thing happened. I guess my sarcasm detector was not working when I read the article. People tend to suck. ffs ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Tim . Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 8:42 AM To: Jim Franklin ; Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Jim Frankli= n Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perple= xed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive tsun_stuff@outlook.com --_000_MN6PR14MB71975977C9CD727898034DC9B47B2MN6PR14MB7197namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I seem to vaguely remember that as housing built up around the Sacramento a= irport many decades ago that this same thing happened. 

I guess my sarcasm detector was not working when I read the article. <= /div>

People tend to suck. ffs

From: Shop-t= alk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <tims_da= tsun_stuff@outlook.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 8:42 AM
To: Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org>; Shop Talk <= shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day<= /span>
 
Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. 

From: Shop= -talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Jim Franklin &l= t;jamesf@groupwbench.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day
 
h= ttps://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplex= ed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
1950-dee3-6d73c6662380" class=3D"x_OWAAutoLink" data-auth=3D"NotApplicable"= > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

alk/tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.com" id=3D"OWAaf86fb36-e4c4-3662-2bed-86655e8= 9134a" class=3D"x_OWAAutoLink" data-auth=3D"NotApplicable"> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.c= om

--_000_MN6PR14MB71975977C9CD727898034DC9B47B2MN6PR14MB7197namp_-- --===============4722939503863414952== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4722939503863414952==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 24 16:38:57 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66586A0B11 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 16:38:57 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-il1-f180.google.com (unknown [209.85.166.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A90FA062A for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 16:35:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-il1-f180.google.com with SMTP id e9e14a558f8ab-36278a62926so12624085ab.3 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 15:35:29 -0800 (PST) d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1706139328; x=1706744128; 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Wed, 24 Jan 2024 15:35:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2600:380:692c:cf26:f80b:5678:6ebc:9fb4]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id db7-20020a056e023d0700b00361988e4fe9sm5177638ilb.42.2024.01.24.15.35.27 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 24 Jan 2024 15:35:27 -0800 (PST) From: David Scheidt Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 17:35:16 -0600 References: <93ddd989-5492-4226-939e-5c438c1700b0@comcast.net> To: Bob Spidell , "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Cgo+IE9uIEphbiAyNCwgMjAyNCwgYXQgMTE6NDYsIEJvYiBTcGlkZWxsIDxic3BpZGVsbEBjb21j YXN0Lm5ldD4gd3JvdGU6Cj4gCj4g77u/IEkgdGhpbmsgdGhlIGxhd3N1aXQgbWlnaHQgYmUgcmVh bCwgYnV0IEhhZ2VydHkgaXMgdG9yY2hpbmcgdGhlIHBlb3BsZSBiZWhpbmQgaXQuIFNhbWUgc2hp dCBoYXBwZW5zIG5lYXIgYWlycG9ydHM7IG1vc3Qgbm90YWJseSBSZWlkLUhpbGx2aWV3IGluIHRo ZSBCYXkgQXJlYS4gVGhlIG1heW9yIG9mIENoaWNhZ28gYXQgdGhlIHRpbWUtLUkgdGhpbmsgaGUg aGFkIE1hZmlhIGNvbm5lY3Rpb25zLS1oYWQgTWVpZ3MgRmllbGQgdG9ybiB1cCBvdmVybmlnaHQs IGlsbGVnYWxseSwgYnV0IHdhcyBuZXZlciBoZWxkIGFjY291bnRhYmxlLiBJJ20gd2FpdGluZyBm b3Igc29tZW9uZSBpbiBEYWx5IENpdHkgdG8gZmlsZSBhIGxhd3N1aXQgdG8gc2h1dCBkb3duIFNG Ty4KPiAKPiAKClRoZSBjaXR5IHdhcyBmaW5lZCBmb3Igbm90IGZpbGxpbmcgdGhlIGFwcHJvcHJp YXRlIG5vdGljZSB0byBhaXJtZW4uICBCZXlvbmQgdGhhdCwgdGhlcmUgd2FzbuKAmXQgYW55dGhp bmcgY3JpbWluYWwgYWJvdXQgaXQuIFRoZSBjaXR5IG93bnMgdGhlIHByb3BlcnR5LCBhbmQgY2Fu IGRvIHdoYXQgaXQgbGlrZXMgd2l0aCBpdC4gV29yc3QgY2FzZSBzb21lb25lIGhhZCBzb21lIGNp dmlsIGNsYWltcyBhZ2FpbnN0IHRoZSBjaXR5IGZvciB2aW9sYXRpbmcgYSBsZWFzZSBvciBvdGhl ciBjb250cmFjdCwgYnV0IGFnYWluIHRoYXTigJlzIG5vdCBjcmltaW5hbC4gIEkgYW0gbm8gZmFu IG9mIERhbGV5LCBidXQgaGUgd2FzIHJpZ2h0IG9uIHRoYXQuIAoKTWVpZ3Mgd2FzIHVnbHksIGxv dWQsIGFuZCBub3QgdXNlZCBieSBDaGljYWdvYW5zLiBJdCB3YXMgYSBzdWJzaWRpemVkIHByaXZh dGUgYWlycG9ydCwgdXNlZCBleGNsdXNpdmVseSBieSBwcml2YXRlIHBsYW5lcy4gIFRoZSBjdXJy ZW50IHVzZSBhcyBhIHBhcmsgYW5kIGNvbmNlcnQgdmVudWUgaXMgbXVjaCBiZXR0ZXIsIGFuZCBl bmpveWVkIGJ5IHZhc3RseSBtb3JlIHBlb3BsZS4gCgoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KClNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldApEb25hdGU6 IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwKU3VnZ2VzdGVkIGFubnVhbCBkb25hdGlv biAgJDEyLjk2CkFyY2hpdmU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvcGlwZXJtYWlsL3Nob3AtdGFs ayBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZQoKVW5zdWJzY3JpYmUvTWFuYWdlOiBodHRw Oi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3AtdGFsay9taGFyY0BhdXRveC50 ZWFtLm5ldAoK From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 24 17:58:44 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D13A0B0D for ; 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Thu, 25 Jan 2024 00:49:36 +0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 16:49:30 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: David Scheidt , "shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: <93ddd989-5492-4226-939e-5c438c1700b0@comcast.net> From: Bob Spidell T6hk5GvpuKjTfbDR0J7V4dwgzWEnhvyXPPkdDCgQ7/L9JxPIgG/A+3kHS9Z/zoHq9o7qVGSgtiBoDQpu4VWmz9atga7YpgK+C5BEq679P7cVW7w5x0dCYeV7 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net SWYgdHJ1ZS0tSSBzdGlsbCByZWNhbGwgc29tZSBzaGVuYW5pZ2FucywgYnV0IGhhdmUgbm8gc291 cmNlLS10aGVuIEkgCnN0YW5kIGNvcnJlY3RlZC4gVGhlIENpdHkgb2YgU2FuIEpvc2UtLW1lbW9y eSB2YWd1ZS0tdG9vayBzdWJzdGFudGlhbCAKZnVuZHMgZnJvbSB0aGUgRkFBIHRvIGtlZXAgUkhW IG9wZW4gYXMgYSByZWxpZXZlci9lbWVyZ2VuY3kgc3RyaXAgdGhlbiAKdHVybmVkIGFyb3VuZCBh bmQgdHJpZWQgdG8gc2h1dCBpdCBkb3duICh3ZWxsLCB0aGUgZGV2ZWxvcGVycyB3aG8gaGFkIGEg CmhhcmQtb24gZm9yIHRoZSBsYW5kIGRpZCkuIFBlb3BsZSBidXkvYnVpbGQgaG9tZXMgbmVhciBy YWNld2F5cywgCmFpcnBvcnRzIGV0Yy4gYXQgcmVkdWNlZCBwcmljZXMgZnVsbHkgaW50ZW5kaW5n IHRvIHN0YXJ0IGZpbGluZyBsYXdzdWl0cyAKYXMgc29vbiBhcyB0aGV5IG1vdmUgaW4uIElmIHlv dSdyZSBhIGJpZyBmYW4gb2YgWm9lIExvZmdyZW4sIHN0aWxsIGluIApDb25ncmVzcyBBRkFJSywg c2hlIG1hZGUgaGVyIG5hbWUgY3J1c2FkaW5nIGFnYWluc3QgUkhWOyBmb3J0dW5hdGVseSwgCnNo ZSB3ZW50IG9uIHRvIGJpZ2dlciBhbmQgYmV0dGVyIHRoaW5ncy4KClNvdW5kcyBsaWtlIHlvdSdy ZSBub3QgYSBwaWxvdDsgcGlsb3RzIHRha2UgYWlycG9ydCBjbG9zdXJlcy0tYW55IG9mIAp0aGVt LS1wZXJzb25hbC4KCmJzCgoKT24gMS8yNC8yMDI0IDM6MzUgUE0sIERhdmlkIFNjaGVpZHQgd3Jv dGU6Cj4KPj4gT24gSmFuIDI0LCAyMDI0LCBhdCAxMTo0NiwgQm9iIFNwaWRlbGwgPGJzcGlkZWxs QGNvbWNhc3QubmV0PiB3cm90ZToKPj4KPj4g77u/IEkgdGhpbmsgdGhlIGxhd3N1aXQgbWlnaHQg YmUgcmVhbCwgYnV0IEhhZ2VydHkgaXMgdG9yY2hpbmcgdGhlIHBlb3BsZSBiZWhpbmQgaXQuIFNh bWUgc2hpdCBoYXBwZW5zIG5lYXIgYWlycG9ydHM7IG1vc3Qgbm90YWJseSBSZWlkLUhpbGx2aWV3 IGluIHRoZSBCYXkgQXJlYS4gVGhlIG1heW9yIG9mIENoaWNhZ28gYXQgdGhlIHRpbWUtLUkgdGhp bmsgaGUgaGFkIE1hZmlhIGNvbm5lY3Rpb25zLS1oYWQgTWVpZ3MgRmllbGQgdG9ybiB1cCBvdmVy bmlnaHQsIGlsbGVnYWxseSwgYnV0IHdhcyBuZXZlciBoZWxkIGFjY291bnRhYmxlLiBJJ20gd2Fp dGluZyBmb3Igc29tZW9uZSBpbiBEYWx5IENpdHkgdG8gZmlsZSBhIGxhd3N1aXQgdG8gc2h1dCBk b3duIFNGTy4KPj4KPj4KPiBUaGUgY2l0eSB3YXMgZmluZWQgZm9yIG5vdCBmaWxsaW5nIHRoZSBh cHByb3ByaWF0ZSBub3RpY2UgdG8gYWlybWVuLiAgQmV5b25kIHRoYXQsIHRoZXJlIHdhc27igJl0 IGFueXRoaW5nIGNyaW1pbmFsIGFib3V0IGl0LiBUaGUgY2l0eSBvd25zIHRoZSBwcm9wZXJ0eSwg YW5kIGNhbiBkbyB3aGF0IGl0IGxpa2VzIHdpdGggaXQuIFdvcnN0IGNhc2Ugc29tZW9uZSBoYWQg c29tZSBjaXZpbCBjbGFpbXMgYWdhaW5zdCB0aGUgY2l0eSBmb3IgdmlvbGF0aW5nIGEgbGVhc2Ug b3Igb3RoZXIgY29udHJhY3QsIGJ1dCBhZ2FpbiB0aGF04oCZcyBub3QgY3JpbWluYWwuICBJIGFt IG5vIGZhbiBvZiBEYWxleSwgYnV0IGhlIHdhcyByaWdodCBvbiB0aGF0Lgo+Cj4gTWVpZ3Mgd2Fz IHVnbHksIGxvdWQsIGFuZCBub3QgdXNlZCBieSBDaGljYWdvYW5zLiBJdCB3YXMgYSBzdWJzaWRp emVkIHByaXZhdGUgYWlycG9ydCwgdXNlZCBleGNsdXNpdmVseSBieSBwcml2YXRlIHBsYW5lcy4g IFRoZSBjdXJyZW50IHVzZSBhcyBhIHBhcmsgYW5kIGNvbmNlcnQgdmVudWUgaXMgbXVjaCBiZXR0 ZXIsIGFuZCBlbmpveWVkIGJ5IHZhc3RseSBtb3JlIHBlb3BsZS4KPgo+CgpfX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwoKU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0u bmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5u dWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJjaGl2ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9waXBlcm1h aWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9hcmNoaXZlCgpVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9N YW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10YWxrL21o YXJjQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cgo= From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 24 18:36:01 2024 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E01A8A08B6 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 18:36:01 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-a1p-077435.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.103.146.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1455A0560 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 17:55:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-a1p-077058.sys.comcast.net ([96.103.145.239]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resqmta-a1p-077435.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id SnWDrJhcTEAvDSo1jrajmP; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 00:55:31 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1706144131; bh=GXUDn1O7v9WO7TXFWou/ON5/4IB/lsT1yKX7nJmMDL0=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From:Xfinity-Spam-Result; b=SDEnMtwtd7yxJCPdp9+uwM9tWD2C+jIa4DFbVjFTjwQuW4rpCYkkuSBY/4sfcoT/D ESNjGZUMyTUIrp1hYrirAgUZNAJ92Y2/M9KUG/WXX47T03IUhS+lPE9kuCZi0BFEfX Jvr1bhckgLGjpw6rAvIVz7nhSl8Ls1YYW+MfFowP7OTZqmG8OkJvZFVS4gzMUEPfg0 DnLFZxa0pHBoqQhLcF6WgEg/VE2ZNpI8LU7oYmRGQbj16OLxe8OthitBeqFNyHpU+m lCyTE1vcauLPy2qJEB0pxEI/Dv0BBIzKBqoIs5P6AN2zT38UHoduUyG2qWRcBKyQoI pDtIw2FCUrO8w== Received: from [192.168.1.119] ([104.153.206.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resomta-a1p-077058.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id So1brv10KXhRwSo1crdV4v; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 00:55:28 +0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 16:55:24 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: From: Bob Spidell 2SxN+5+6ImIl9rk3qwYKl1imTKX79plmx8uvFcikCyma1RaXrKEqRgFwIr8WvuhxiO0Ixe/cmWZwi7AyyrocnETYenki6T+/3Bw= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============3003427029417995837== boundary="------------t6W5qk40yqLPaCVejCQT0A3q" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------t6W5qk40yqLPaCVejCQT0A3q Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Probably Sac Executive. Sac Metro is still out in the industrial area/boonies, but will be surrounded by housing developments in a decade or two. On 1/24/2024 12:55 PM, Tim . wrote: > I seem to vaguely remember that as housing built up around the > Sacramento airport many decades ago that this same thing happened. > > I guess my sarcasm detector was not working when I read the article. > > People tend to suck. ffs > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Shop-talk on behalf of Tim > . > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2024 8:42 AM > *To:* Jim Franklin ; Shop Talk > > *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day > Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------t6W5qk40yqLPaCVejCQT0A3q Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Probably Sac Executive. Sac Metro is still out in the industrial area/boonies, but will be surrounded by housing developments in a decade or two.

On 1/24/2024 12:55 PM, Tim . wrote:
I seem to vaguely remember that as housing built up around the Sacramento airport many decades ago that this same thing happened. 

I guess my sarcasm detector was not working when I read the article. 

People tend to suck. ffs

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 8:42 AM
To: Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org>; Shop Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day
 
Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. 


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Dave=20 =20 On Wednesday, January 24, 2024 at 03:44:53 PM CST, Jimmie Mayfield wrote: =20 =20 I Googled the lawsuit and it looks to be real.=C2=A0 The gist seems to be= the homeowners are complaining that the track has begun scheduling events = much more frequently than they have historically. =20 =20 On 1/24/24 09:42, Tim . wrote: =20 =20 Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion.=C2=A0 =20 From:=C2=A0Shop-talk on behalf of Jim= Franklin Sent:=C2=A0Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM To:=C2=A0Shop Talk Subject:=C2=A0[Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day =C2=A0 ht= tps://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexe= d-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ _______________________________________________ =20 Shop-talk@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/a= rchive =20 Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_d= atsun_stuff@outlook.com =20 =20 _______________________________________________Shop-talk@autox.team.netDo= nate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlSuggested annual donation $12.96Archiv= e: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archiveUns= ubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+s= hoptalk@sackheads.org=20 =20 _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive ssey@cs.com =20 ------=_Part_616391_1163998323.1706146053748 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What, since COVID?  Go figure.

Dave




=20
=20
On Wednesday, January 24, 2024 at 03:44:53 PM CST, Jimm= ie Mayfield <mayfield+shoptalk@sackheads.org> wrote:


I Googled the la= wsuit and it looks to be real.  The gist seems to be the homeowners are complaining th= at the track has begun scheduling events much more frequently than they have historically.


On 1/24/24 09:42, Tim . wrote:
Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. 

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of= Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter'= s day
 

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
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ttp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+shoptalk@sackheads.=
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