Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ceiling Paint

From: Jim Stone <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 20:57:34 -0400

Thanks guys. I am going to go with the conventional paint. I appreciate the feedback. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 27, 2023, at 8:38 PM, Robert Rochlin <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
> I’ve used the  coverage disclosing ceiling paint.  It does show you what you’ve missed but has very poor hiding power and requires much more work overall to get a nice consistent finish
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
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---

From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 14:42:32 -0500

-- 
David Scheidt
[email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 14:46:21 -0500

Another thing: if you haven't painted with zero/low voc paints, they
dry fast.  You probably learned "wet edge" techniques.  forget them.
zero voc paint drys too fast.  Do your cutting in, and let it dry.
Then do your field painting.  If you attempt to paint over a partially
dried coat, you will pull it up, and make a mess.

Depending on how fast you are, and how big your job is, you may be
able to start painting immediately after you finishing cutting in, but
you will probably have to wait a bit.

[email-masked]

---

From: Jim Stone <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 19:32:33 -0400

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"Another thing: if you haven't painted with zero/low voc paints, they =
dry fast.=E2=80=9D

Boy, you aren=E2=80=99t kidding! I actually got this email while I was =
in the middle of painting my first set of walls.  (More on the ceilings =
in a subsequent email.)  This was my first experience with Low VOC =
paint.  I had seen references to low or no VOC paints but not paid much =
attention to the difference.  Based on several online reviews, I used =
Sherwin-Williams HGTV Infinity paint.  =
https://www.lowes.com/pd/HGTV-HOME-by-Sherwin-Williams-HGTV-HOME-by-Sherwi=
n-Williams-Infinity-Interior-Satin-Ultra-White/5005508285. Reviews of =
the paint mentioned its low VOC content as one of its benefits, but =
tended to recommend it based on other factors.  In the end, I am happy =
with the way it went on and we did get good one coat coverage (on new =
drywall with two coats of PVA primer) but man, does that stuff dry fast! =
 Fortunately, my wife and I were working together on the walls; she was =
cutting in the edges and I was rolling the primer behind her.  We were =
able to keep a wet edge by working together, but it would have been next =
to impossible to do alone.

I would not have started with the low VOC paint had I known what I know =
now, as dry time will be an issue when I am painting the stairwell.  My =
plan was always to add Floetrol =
(https://www.flood.com/products/paint-additives/floetrol-latex-based-paint=
-additive) to the paint to slow down the drying there.  If need be, I =
will also feather the paint where I think it may dry too fast and hope =
to be able to blend it in without getting a line. =20

Wish me luck.

Jim

> On May 30, 2023, at 3:46 PM, David Scheidt <[email-masked]> =
wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><font =
color=3D"#0433ff">"Another thing: if you haven't painted with zero/low =
voc paints, they dry fast.=E2=80=9D</font><div><br></div><div>Boy, you =
aren=E2=80=99t kidding! I actually got this email while I was in the =
middle of painting my first set of walls. &nbsp;(More on the ceilings in =
a subsequent email.) &nbsp;This was my first experience with Low VOC =
paint. &nbsp;I had seen references to low or no VOC paints but not paid =
much attention to the difference. &nbsp;Based on several online reviews, =
I used Sherwin-Williams HGTV Infinity paint. &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.lowes.com/pd/HGTV-HOME-by-Sherwin-Williams-HGTV-HOME-b=
y-Sherwin-Williams-Infinity-Interior-Satin-Ultra-White/5005508285">https:/=
/www.lowes.com/pd/HGTV-HOME-by-Sherwin-Williams-HGTV-HOME-by-Sherwin-Willi=
ams-Infinity-Interior-Satin-Ultra-White/5005508285</a>. Reviews of the =
paint mentioned its low VOC content as one of its benefits, but tended =
to recommend it based on other factors. &nbsp;In the end, I am happy =
with the way it went on and we did get good one coat coverage (on new =
drywall with two coats of PVA primer) but man, does that stuff dry fast! =
&nbsp;Fortunately, my wife and I were working together on the walls; she =
was cutting in the edges and I was rolling the primer behind her. =
&nbsp;We were able to keep a wet edge by working together, but it would =
have been next to impossible to do alone.</div><div><br></div><div>I =
would not have started with the low VOC paint had I known what I know =
now, as dry time will be an issue when I am painting the stairwell. =
&nbsp;My plan was always to add Floetrol (<a =
href=3D"https://www.flood.com/products/paint-additives/floetrol-latex-base=
d-paint-additive">https://www.flood.com/products/paint-additives/floetrol-=
latex-based-paint-additive</a>) to the paint to slow down the drying =
there. &nbsp;If need be, I will also feather the paint where I think it =
may dry too fast and hope to be able to blend it in without getting a =
line. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Wish me =
luck.</div><div><br></div><div>Jim</div><div><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>On May 30, 2023, at 3:46 PM, David Scheidt =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div>Another thing: if you =
haven't painted with zero/low voc paints, they<br>dry fast. &nbsp;You =
probably learned "wet edge" techniques. &nbsp;forget them.<br>zero voc =
paint drys too fast. &nbsp;Do your cutting in, and let it dry.<br>Then =
do your field painting. &nbsp;If you attempt to paint over a =
partially<br>dried coat, you will pull it up, and make a =
mess.<br><br>Depending on how fast you are, and how big your job is, you =
may be<br>able to start painting immediately after you finishing cutting =
in, but<br>you will probably have to wait a bit.<br><br>-- <br>David =
Scheidt<br>[email-masked]<br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div=
></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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From: Donald H Locker <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 09:37:45 +0000 s=protonmail3; t=1685525877; x=1685785077; bh=f1+DklNIA49Q7UdKp4m6a/PoDk2rbn/f9CekpB0Yp3I=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=uY7XDEKtWqW9j6waRVot1vf4DQg9+iFhx5xK944tuzR+eoIamLutf3tz52LRbbrrD ZawxyrwiFp8xYfpLrvGuzRprAo53geGQUJLEkXUQ0Zc9x75QddndgPrwbEFwwKG4T2 nTVARVYDq/uqNAwfI7wEWD4QdYN7eRxwnbfApEgoxXOegPl8olq02ofp/wILy0i1uo K6xQUQ42iFtjB6+izv0UBdHXTd1nO1QAMlB6otS2H48kwySqPN1KMfH75X4pWbUI8A sSFeoeg0nA3PrKnRPDv0PZGiwWYYakLKOtz82B1dkpYO6ipy59hLVe1YigYpxoLec

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[email-masked]

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From: Jim Stone <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 07:51:34 -0400

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That is a nice set up for my ceiling paint update.  First the good news.

As recommended here, I stayed away from the color changing paint and =
bought a couple of gallons of Benjamin Moore ceiling paint =
(https://aboffs.com/collections/benjamin-moore-minus-aura/products/waterbo=
rne-ceiling-paint) after doing some online research.  I used a strong =
work light and had no trouble seeing what was already painted, so the =
color changing feature would have been totally unnecessary.  It might =
have been different if I was painting a previously painted ceiling, but =
I doubt it.  The paint covered in one coat - new drywall with two coats =
of PVA primer.  As an experiment, I tried getting away with just one =
coat in one room and it seemed to be fine.  Still, adding a second coat =
of primer is pretty easy and I=E2=80=99ll probably stay with that in the =
rest of the addition for peace of mind.

Before going any further, I should mention that one group member sent me =
a note that wasn=E2=80=99t copied to everyone recommending =
Sherwin-Williams CHB paint for the ceiling, but I got the email after =
I=E2=80=99d bought the Benjamin Moore.  FWIW, I just quickly researched =
CHB paint and others recommend it, too.  This review was pretty =
interesting: =
https://dengarden.com/home-improvement/Sherwin-Williams-CHB-Paint-Review

So, on to the bad news and a new question.  We originally bought three =
gallons of the paint and my wife picked them up at the paint store.  Two =
of the gallons fell out of the truck and opened up when she got home.  =
Our driveway is currently just dirt, so no harm there, other then the =
loss of 1 1/2 gallons of expensive paint.  (I was able to save about =
half a gallon between the two cans.)  So, there goes about $75 of my =
savings from doing the patting myself.  I mixed the remaining gallon and =
a half together in a five gallon bucket, following standard practice to =
account for any color inconsistencies. At least, that was what I thought =
I was doing.  Unfortunately, I accidentally grabbed a fresh gallon of =
PVA primer instead of the ceiling paint.  So, there goes more of my =
savings.

How much more money was wasted depends on the answer to my question, =
which is: can I use the primer mixed with the ceiling paint?  Neither =
are low VOC paints but the primer is Valspar PVA and, as noted, the =
ceiling paint is Benjamin Moore.  Still, ceiling paint is dead flat and =
it seems to me that I now just have some primer with extra pigment in =
it.  Does that make sense?  I have more PVA and could easily further =
dilute the ceiling paint, but I=E2=80=99d hate to ruin the remaining =
primer, if that is a problem.

Any thoughts?

Jim

> On May 31, 2023, at 5:37 AM, Donald H Locker <[email-masked]> =
wrote:
>=20
> Thank you so much for the tips. My wife and I have some significant =
painting tasks ahead in the next year or so and these notes will help a =
lot.
>=20
> I'm not too bad at painting using the older-school products. I only =
run into problems with planning, prep, application, and cleanup. ;-)
>=20
> Donald.
>=20
> On 2023-05-30 19:32, Jim Stone wrote:
dry fast.=E2=80=9D
>>=20
>> Boy, you aren=E2=80=99t kidding! I actually got this email while I =
was in the middle of painting my first set of walls.  (More on the =
ceilings in a subsequent email.)  This was my first experience with Low =
VOC paint.  I had seen references to low or no VOC paints but not paid =
much attention to the difference.  Based on several online reviews, I =
used Sherwin-Williams HGTV Infinity paint.  =
https://www.lowes.com/pd/HGTV-HOME-by-Sherwin-Williams-HGTV-HOME-by-Sherwi=
n-Williams-Infinity-Interior-Satin-Ultra-White/5005508285. Reviews of =
the paint mentioned its low VOC content as one of its benefits, but =
tended to recommend it based on other factors.  In the end, I am happy =
with the way it went on and we did get good one coat coverage (on new =
drywall with two coats of PVA primer) but man, does that stuff dry fast! =
 Fortunately, my wife and I were working together on the walls; she was =
cutting in the edges and I was rolling the primer behind her.  We were =
able to keep a wet edge by working together, but it would have been next =
to impossible to do alone.
>>=20
>> I would not have started with the low VOC paint had I known what I =
know now, as dry time will be an issue when I am painting the stairwell. =
 My plan was always to add Floetrol =
(https://www.flood.com/products/paint-additives/floetrol-latex-based-paint=
-additive) to the paint to slow down the drying there.  If need be, I =
will also feather the paint where I think it may dry too fast and hope =
to be able to blend it in without getting a line. =20
>>> Then do your field painting.  If you attempt to paint over a =
partially
>>> able to start painting immediately after you finishing cutting in, =
but
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk =
http://autox.team.net/archive
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail=_60593A75-1DE5-473E-8D33-2F729F3235BE
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">That is a nice =
set up for my ceiling paint update. &nbsp;First the good =
news.<div><br></div><div>As recommended here, I stayed away from the =
color changing paint and bought a couple of gallons of Benjamin Moore =
ceiling paint (<a =
href=3D"https://aboffs.com/collections/benjamin-moore-minus-aura/products/=
waterborne-ceiling-paint">https://aboffs.com/collections/benjamin-moore-mi=
nus-aura/products/waterborne-ceiling-paint</a>) after doing some online =
research. &nbsp;I used a strong work light and had no trouble seeing =
what was already painted, so the color changing feature would have been =
totally unnecessary. &nbsp;It might have been different if I was =
painting a previously painted ceiling, but I doubt it. &nbsp;The paint =
covered in one coat - new drywall with two coats of PVA primer. &nbsp;As =
an experiment, I tried getting away with just one coat in one room and =
it seemed to be fine. &nbsp;Still, adding a second coat of primer is =
pretty easy and I=E2=80=99ll probably stay with that in the rest of the =
addition for peace of mind.</div><div><br></div><div>Before going any =
further, I should mention that one group member sent me a note that =
wasn=E2=80=99t copied to everyone recommending Sherwin-Williams CHB =
paint for the ceiling, but I got the email after I=E2=80=99d bought the =
Benjamin Moore. &nbsp;FWIW, I just quickly researched CHB paint and =
others recommend it, too. &nbsp;This review was pretty =
interesting:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://dengarden.com/home-improvement/Sherwin-Williams-CHB-Paint-=
Review">https://dengarden.com/home-improvement/Sherwin-Williams-CHB-Paint-=
Review</a></div><div><br></div><div>So, on to the bad news and a new =
question. &nbsp;We originally bought three gallons of the paint and my =
wife picked them up at the paint store. &nbsp;Two of the gallons fell =
out of the truck and opened up when she got home. &nbsp;Our driveway is =
currently just dirt, so no harm there, other then the loss of 1 1/2 =
gallons of expensive paint. &nbsp;(I was able to save about half a =
gallon between the two cans.) &nbsp;So, there goes about $75 of my =
savings from doing the patting myself. &nbsp;I mixed the remaining =
gallon and a half together in a five gallon bucket, following standard =
practice to account for any color inconsistencies. At least, that was =
what I thought I was doing. &nbsp;Unfortunately, I accidentally grabbed =
a fresh gallon of PVA primer instead of the ceiling paint. &nbsp;So, =
there goes more of my savings.</div><div><br></div><div>How much more =
money was wasted depends on the answer to my question, which is: can I =
use the primer mixed with the ceiling paint? &nbsp;Neither are low VOC =
paints but the primer is Valspar PVA and, as noted, the ceiling paint is =
Benjamin Moore. &nbsp;Still, ceiling paint is dead flat and it seems to =
me that I now just have some primer with extra pigment in it. &nbsp;Does =
that make sense? &nbsp;I have more PVA and could easily further dilute =
the ceiling paint, but I=E2=80=99d hate to ruin the remaining primer, if =
that is a problem.</div><div><br></div><div>Any =
thoughts?</div><div><br></div><div>Jim<br><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>On May 31, 2023, at 5:37 AM, Donald H Locker =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div>
    <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUTF-8">
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p>Thank you so much for the =
tips. My wife and I have some
      significant painting tasks ahead in the next year or so and these
      notes will help a lot.</p><p>I'm not too bad at painting using the =
older-school products. I
      only run into problems with planning, prep, application, and
      cleanup. ;-)<br>
    </p><p>Donald.<br>
    </p>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 2023-05-30 19:32, Jim Stone =
wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite" =
cite=3D"mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUTF-8">
      <font color=3D"#0433ff">"Another thing: if you haven't painted =
with
        zero/low voc paints, they dry fast.=E2=80=9D</font>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Boy, you aren=E2=80=99t kidding! I actually got this email =
while I
        was in the middle of painting my first set of walls. &nbsp;(More =
on
        the ceilings in a subsequent email.) &nbsp;This was my first
        experience with Low VOC paint. &nbsp;I had seen references to =
low or
        no VOC paints but not paid much attention to the difference.
        &nbsp;Based on several online reviews, I used Sherwin-Williams =
HGTV
        Infinity paint. &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.lowes.com/pd/HGTV-HOME-by-Sherwin-Williams-HGTV-HOME-b=
y-Sherwin-Williams-Infinity-Interior-Satin-Ultra-White/5005508285" =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.lowes.com/pd/HGTV-HOME-by-Sher=
win-Williams-HGTV-HOME-by-Sherwin-Williams-Infinity-Interior-Satin-Ultra-W=
hite/5005508285</a>.
        Reviews of the paint mentioned its low VOC content as one of its
        benefits, but tended to recommend it based on other factors. =
&nbsp;In
        the end, I am happy with the way it went on and we did get good
        one coat coverage (on new drywall with two coats of PVA primer)
        but man, does that stuff dry fast! &nbsp;Fortunately, my wife =
and I
        were working together on the walls; she was cutting in the edges
        and I was rolling the primer behind her. &nbsp;We were able to =
keep a
        wet edge by working together, but it would have been next to
        impossible to do alone.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I would not have started with the low VOC paint had I known
        what I know now, as dry time will be an issue when I am painting
        the stairwell. &nbsp;My plan was always to add Floetrol (<a =
href=3D"https://www.flood.com/products/paint-additives/floetrol-latex-base=
d-paint-additive" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.flood.com/products/paint-addit=
ives/floetrol-latex-based-paint-additive</a>)
        to the paint to slow down the drying there. &nbsp;If need be, I =
will
        also feather the paint where I think it may dry too fast and
        hope to be able to blend it in without getting a line. =
&nbsp;</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Wish me luck.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Jim</div>
      <div>
        <div><br>
          <blockquote type=3D"cite">
            <div>On May 30, 2023, at 3:46 PM, David Scheidt
              <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> =
wrote:</div>
            <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div>
              <div>Another thing: if you haven't painted with zero/low
                voc paints, they<br>
                dry fast. &nbsp;You probably learned "wet edge" =
techniques.
                &nbsp;forget them.<br>
                zero voc paint drys too fast. &nbsp;Do your cutting in, =
and
                let it dry.<br>
                Then do your field painting. &nbsp;If you attempt to =
paint
                over a partially<br>
                dried coat, you will pull it up, and make a mess.<br>
                <br>
                Depending on how fast you are, and how big your job is,
                you may be<br>
                able to start painting immediately after you finishing
                cutting in, but<br>
                you will probably have to wait a bit.<br>
                <br>
                -- <br>
                David Scheidt<br>
                <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>

=
</div>_______________________________________________<br><br>Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net<br>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<br>Suggested =
annual donation &nbsp;$12.96<br>Archive: =
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r></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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