Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question

From: Gene Garrison <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2023 18:51:06 -0800

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Thanks, ODB.  And I apologize for not replying sooner.

Your points sound reasonable.  And I also change oil more frequently 
than recommended in the vehicles that I use regularly. But the last few 
years, the TR6 is  getting driven less than 1000 miles a year, hence my 
question.  Though generally I try to drive it for at least a half hour 
whenever I fire it up.

Based on the feedback from the list, I think I'm going to be the wild 
man and go with a two year interval.  :)

- GeneG

On 8/29/22 20:02, old dirtbeard wrote:
> I change oil at 5K miles or at 12 months and use synthetic oil. 
> Probably overkill for many of my engines, however.
>
> Regarding oil setting in an unused engine, I believe that synthetic 
> oil setting in an unused engine probably would not noticeably 
> deteriorate for periods longer than 12 months.
>
> I know many folks who put synthetic oil in air-cooled motorcycles and 
> only ride a few hundred miles a year. When draining that oil, it looks 
> pretty much the same as it did when it was poured into the engine. I 
> believe that it probably could be used for longer than 12 months in 
> that specific scenario.
>
> I think the 12 month change interval for low mileage engines is mostly 
> important for engines that routinely see short trips, do not reach 
> operating temperatures,and may have condensation build-up in the sump. 
> It probably also is more important for non-sealed crankcases in humid 
> environments where moisture from humidity could condense.
>
> Moisture also is of course a byproduct of combustion, and if the 
> engine does not reach and run at normal operating temperatures for 
> sustained periods of time, moisture is likely to remain in the 
> crankcase and contaminate the oil.
>
> I do not believe, however, that simply having oil in the sealed sump 
> of an unused engine would need to be changed every 12 months from 
> being in contact with the metal or other materials inside the engine.
>
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 6:56 PM Tom Coradeschi <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>     The contaminants will cause the oil to degrade, hence the need to
>     change it on either time or mileage, per the OEM spec (whichever
>     comes first).
>
>     Tom Coradeschi
>     [email-masked]
>
>>     On Aug 29, 2022, at 1:44 PM, Gene Garrison
>>     <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>
>>     I'm glad you brought that up.  I've always wondered about
>>     changing oil.
>>
>>     So oil sitting in bottles on the shelf doesn't "go bad".  Right?
>>
>>     Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be
>>     changed?  I know it now has contaminants and such in it, but
>>     those aren't going to cause it to degrade, are they?
>>
>>     - GeneG
>>
>>     On 8/29/22 03:59, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
>>>     I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had less than 2500
>>>     miles on them because they were ten years old and definitely
>>>     showing it.
>>>
>>>     I consider tires to be like oil - they should be changed at a
>>>     mileage or time interval, whichever comes first.  It's just
>>>     something you have to budget for.
>>>
>>>     On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04 Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
>>>     wrote:
>>>
>>>         re: "How many years can a set of tires go ..."
>>>
>>>         Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained.
>>>         Some--often people who make and sell tires--insist six years
>>>         is the limit, regardless of mileage, and if the tires are
>>>         constantly exposed to extreme weather and mileage that's not
>>>         unreasonable. OTOH, if the tires are kept in a garage not
>>>         subject to temperature extremes and are only used 'around
>>>         town' you can usually go more, 7 or 8 years wouldn't be too
>>>         risky. At any rate, going beyond 10 years is pushing your luck.
>>>
>>>         BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe
>>>         the 6-year 'rule.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a
>>>         catastrophic failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire
>>>         can cause the vehicle to roll over. Ford just got slapped
>>>         with a $1B+ liability charge for an old truck that had a
>>>         blowout, rolled, and the cab squashed the elderly occupants.
>>>         A couple decades ago Ford got slammed when some incorrect,
>>>         improperly inflated Firestone tires--Ford and Firestone go
>>>         WAY back--caused some fatal rollover accidents with some
>>>         Explorers.
>>>
>>>         My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires,
>>>         it's time for new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old
>>>         and, unless they're showing 'checking'--cracking--or other
>>>         damage they should be good for at least a couple more years.
>>>         Check your tire pressures regularly (at least once a month).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:
>>>>         Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.  I will
>>>>         need tires at some point, and that's good to know.
>>>>
>>>>         That said, my car is the spare car of the family, and
>>>>         has had the same tires since 2019.  How many years
>>>>         can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used to
>>>>         putt around town?  (My car has not quite 10,000 miles
>>>>         on it.)
>>>>
>>>>         Thanks,
>>>>         Shannah
>>>>
>>>>         On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge
>>>>         <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>             I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since
>>>>             fall 2020 and they are wearing well, ride smooth and
>>>>             quiet.  I’ve used Michelins on trucks since I worked in
>>>>             the tire dept at Sam’s in college.  They always took
>>>>             the least amount of weights to balance and had the
>>>>             least returns for issues or to rebalance.  The manager
>>>>             at Costco said that is all still true when I bought the
>>>>             last set.  YMMV :)
>>>>
>>>>             Best
>>>>             Ian
>>>>
>>>>             On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon
>>>>             <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                 shop content... I drive my suburban into my shop
>>>>                 time for tires... always used Michelin for the last
>>>>                 20 years with good service... Vehicle is 2008
>>>>                 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no off road
>>>>                 occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20'
>>>>                 car hauler (once or twice a year with load
>>>>                 equalizing hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my
>>>>                 first choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS
>>>>                 275/55-20. The reviews talk a lot about road noise
>>>>                 and rough ride..... My current Michelin Defenders
>>>>                 (bought in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear well.. 76K
>>>>                 miles on them so far)
>>>>                 I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of
>>>>                 tires Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes … so I'm
>>>>                 looking for your thoughts on Michelin or others afa
>>>>                 mileage, ride, noise etc.
>>>>                 thanks
>>>>                 john
>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>                 [email-masked]
>>>>                 Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>                 Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>             [email-masked]
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>>>>
>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>         [email-masked]
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>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>
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>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
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>>
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>
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    <p>Thanks, ODB.  And I apologize for not replying sooner.</p>
    <p>Your points sound reasonable.  And I also change oil more
      frequently than recommended in the vehicles that I use regularly. 
      But the last few years, the TR6 is  getting driven less than 1000
      miles a year, hence my question.  Though generally I try to drive
      it for at least a half hour whenever I fire it up.</p>
    <p>Based on the feedback from the list, I think I'm going to be the
      wild man and go with a two year interval.  :)<br>
    </p>
    <p>- GeneG<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/29/22 20:02, old dirtbeard wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">I change oil at 5K miles or at 12 months and use
        synthetic oil. Probably overkill for many of my engines,
        however.
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Regarding oil setting in an unused engine, I believe that
          synthetic oil setting in an unused engine probably would not
          noticeably deteriorate for periods longer than 12 months. </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I know many folks who put synthetic oil in air-cooled
          motorcycles and only ride a few hundred miles a year. When
          draining that oil, it looks pretty much the same as it did
          when it was poured into the engine. I believe that it probably
          could be used for longer than 12 months in that specific
          scenario.
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I think the 12 month change interval for low mileage
            engines is mostly important for engines that routinely see
            short trips, do not reach operating temperatures,and may
            have condensation build-up in the sump. It probably also is
            more important for non-sealed crankcases in humid
            environments where moisture from humidity could condense. </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Moisture also is of course a byproduct of combustion, and
            if the engine does not reach and run at normal operating
            temperatures for sustained periods of time, moisture is
            likely to remain in the crankcase and contaminate the oil.  </div>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I do not believe, however, that simply having oil in the
          sealed sump of an unused engine would need to be changed every
          12 months from being in contact with the metal or other
          materials inside the engine.</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 6:56
          PM Tom Coradeschi &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="auto">The contaminants will cause the oil to
            degrade, hence the need to change it on either time or
            mileage, per the OEM spec (whichever comes first).<br>
            <br>
            <div dir="ltr">Tom Coradeschi
              <div><a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a></div>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
              <blockquote type="cite">On Aug 29, 2022, at 1:44 PM, Gene
                Garrison &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                wrote:<br>
                <br>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <p>I'm glad you brought that up.  I've always wondered
                  about changing oil.</p>
                <p>So oil sitting in bottles on the shelf doesn't "go
                  bad".  Right?</p>
                <p>Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine
                  need to be changed?  I know it now has contaminants
                  and such in it, but those aren't going to cause it to
                  degrade, are they?</p>
                <p>- GeneG<br>
                </p>
                <div>On 8/29/22 03:59, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="auto">I just replaced a set of trailer tires
                    that had less than 2500 miles on them because they
                    were ten years old and definitely showing it.  
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">I consider tires to be like oil -
                      they should be changed at a mileage or time
                      interval, whichever comes first.  It's just
                      something you have to budget for.</div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 29,
                      2022, 02:04 Bob Spidell &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                      wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
                      0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                      rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                      <div> re: "How many years can a set of tires go
                        ..."<br>
                        <br>
                        Subject to debate, and how the tires are
                        maintained. Some--often people who make and sell
                        tires--insist six years is the limit, regardless
                        of mileage, and if the tires are constantly
                        exposed to extreme weather and mileage that's
                        not unreasonable. OTOH, if the tires are kept in
                        a garage not subject to temperature extremes and
                        are only used 'around town' you can usually go
                        more, 7 or 8 years wouldn't be too risky. At any
                        rate, going beyond 10 years is pushing your
                        luck.<br>
                        <br>
                        BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and
                        probably observe the 6-year 'rule.' SUVs and
                        other trucks are top heavy and a catastrophic
                        failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire
                        can cause the vehicle to roll over. Ford just
                        got slapped with a $1B+ liability charge for an
                        old truck that had a blowout, rolled, and the
                        cab squashed the elderly occupants. A couple
                        decades ago Ford got slammed when some
                        incorrect, improperly inflated Firestone
                        tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY back--caused
                        some fatal rollover accidents with some
                        Explorers.<br>
                        <br>
                        My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying
                        about my tires, it's time for new. Your tires
                        are only three years (+/-) old and, unless
                        they're showing 'checking'--cracking--or other
                        damage they should be good for at least a couple
                        more years. Check your tire pressures regularly
                        (at least once a month).<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <div>On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:<br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div>Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the
                              group.  I will</div>
                            <div>need tires at some point, and that's
                              good to know.</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>That said, my car is the spare car of
                              the family, and</div>
                            <div>has had the same tires since 2019.  How
                              many years</div>
                            <div>can a set of tires go if they are just
                              mostly used to</div>
                            <div>putt around town?  (My car has not
                              quite 10,000 miles</div>
                            <div>on it.)<br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Thanks,</div>
                            <div>Shannah<br>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <br>
                          <div class="gmail_quote">
                            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun,
                              Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge
                              &lt;<a
                                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                                rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                              wrote:<br>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div dir="auto">I have had the Michelin
                                Defender LTX on my pickup since fall
                                2020 and they are wearing well, ride
                                smooth and quiet.  I’ve used Michelins
                                on trucks since I worked in the tire
                                dept at Sam’s in college.  They always
                                took the least amount of weights to
                                balance and had the least returns for
                                issues or to rebalance.  The manager at
                                Costco said that is all still true when
                                I bought the last set.  YMMV :)</div>
                              <div dir="auto"><br>
                              </div>
                              <div dir="auto">Best </div>
                              <div dir="auto">Ian</div>
                              <div><br>
                                <div class="gmail_quote">
                                  <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
                                    Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john
                                    niolon &lt;<a
                                      href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                                      rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                                    wrote:<br>
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                    style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                                    0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                                    rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                                    <div>
                                      <div><font face="Segoe UI">shop
                                          content... I drive my suburban
                                          into my shop</font></div>
                                      <div> </div>
                                      <div><font face="Segoe UI">time
                                          for tires... always used
                                          Michelin for the last 20 years
                                          with good service... Vehicle
                                          is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95%
                                          highway or town ...no off road</font></div>
                                      <div><font face="Segoe UI">occasional
                                          towing my hobby truck to shows
                                          on 20' car hauler (once or
                                          twice a year with load
                                          equalizing hitch...)  Looking
                                          at reviews on my first choice
                                          Michelin Defender LTX/MS</font></div>
                                      <div><font face="Segoe UI">275/55-20.  
                                          The reviews talk a lot about
                                          road noise and rough ride.....
                                          My current Michelin Defenders 
                                          (bought in Jan 2016 ride
                                          smooth and wear well.. 76K
                                          miles on them so far)</font></div>
                                      <div> </div>
                                      <div><font face="Segoe UI">I just
                                          turned 75 and this might be my
                                          last set of tires  <img
                                            alt="Grinning Face with
                                            Smiling Eyes" style="width:
                                            24px; max-width: 100%;
                                            background-color: rgba(0, 0,
                                            0, 0); border-color:
                                            rgb(255, 255, 255); color:
                                            rgb(255, 255, 255);"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            align="absMiddle"> … so I'm
                                          looking for your thoughts on
                                          Michelin or others afa
                                          mileage, ride, noise etc.</font></div>
                                      <div> </div>
                                      <div><font face="Segoe UI">thanks</font></div>
                                      <div><font face="Segoe UI">john</font></div>
                                    </div>
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