Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] left the light on?

From: Jim Juhas <[email-masked]> (added by [email-masked])
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 12:55:15 -0500

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Steve,<div><br></div><div>I have a decidedl=
y low tech solution to suggest. My shop is located at my cottage and I keep i=
t heated to avoid freezing my race cars. I have a programmable thermostat th=
at has 4 =E2=80=9Cevents=E2=80=9D to select. I have each of them set to 45 d=
egrees, the minimum on the thermostat, at various times of a day. When I go t=
o the shop I set it to whatever I need when I=E2=80=99m there. If I forget t=
o set it back, the timer does it for me at one of the preset times. Since th=
e thermostat is merely a switch, the circuitry maybe can be hijacked to shut=
 off the lights through a relay. These basic thermostats don=E2=80=99t cost m=
uch.<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><=
blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 18, 2023, at 11:28 PM, Steven Trovato &lt;st=
[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D=
"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

Yes, as I said, timers and motion sensors is another way to go.&nbsp; I
have done that in other areas.&nbsp; If I'm working under the car one
evening, I really don't want the light to go out.&nbsp; Then I'd have to
crawl out in the dark and flap my arms like a bird to trip the
sensor.&nbsp; I don't think that would be best for this location.&nbsp;
<br><br>
-Steve<br><br>
At 10:17 PM 1/18/2023, Al Fuller wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"cite" cite=3D"">This doesn't address your=

question about notification, but how about a motion sensor for the
lights? Once you aren't there for a period of time the lights shut
off.<br><br>
________________<br>
Best Regards,<br>
Al Fuller<br><br>
On Wed, Jan 18, 2023, 6:46 PM Steven Trovato
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
&gt; wrote:<br>

<dl>
<dd>I find that lights and other things keep getting left on in my <br>

</dd><dd>garage/shop that should be turned off.=C3=82&nbsp; If I leave the g=
arage
door <br>

</dd><dd>open, I get notifications on my phone from my opener.=C3=82&nbsp; I=
'm
looking <br>

</dd><dd>for something like that for my lights.=C3=82&nbsp; I can use someth=
ing
like a <br>

</dd><dd>smart bulb or smart plug on a circuit controlled by a wall
switch.=C3=82&nbsp; I <br>

</dd><dd>can see if the smart device is alive or if power to it has been <br=

</dd><dd>cut.=C3=82&nbsp; I can also replace that wall switch with a smart
switch.=C3=82&nbsp; I can <br>

</dd><dd>then see the status of that switch.=C3=82&nbsp; What I don't seem t=
o be
able to <br>

</dd><dd>do is tell it to send me a notification if the light has been on fo=
r
<br>

</dd><dd>more than an hour.=C3=82&nbsp; I have looked at a few smart switche=
s,
smart <br>

</dd><dd>bulbs and smart plugs.=C3=82&nbsp; Obviously, I haven't checked the=
m
all.=C3=82&nbsp; =C3=82 None <br>

</dd><dd>seem to support doing this.=C3=82&nbsp; I thought maybe IFTTT would=
 help,
but I <br>

</dd><dd>haven't figured out how to do it.=C3=82&nbsp; Do any of you have an=
y <br>

</dd><dd>ideas?=C3=82&nbsp; Also, I know I could use timers, motion sensors,=
 etc to
<br>

</dd><dd>control things.=C3=82&nbsp; That would be another way to go.=C3=82&=
nbsp; Right
now, I just <br>

</dd><dd>want a notification based on being turned on for an amount of
time.=C3=82&nbsp; Thanks.<br><br>

</dd><dd>-Steve T.<br><br>
<br>

</dd><dd>-- <br>

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From: Steven Trovato <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 13:40:09 -0500

Lots of interesting ideas!

webcam.  This will allow me to look and see if the lights are on, but 
I don't think it can send me a notification if they are left on.

Alexa.  This is interesting.  If I can tell Alexa to alert me if 
lights are on for an hour, that would be good.  I'm not sure if it 
can do that.  I'll have to look into it.

Motion sensor + backup light.  This is a different approach that I 
will consider if I can't get what I'm looking for.

Wyze switch.  I am not familiar with the switch, but I do have Wyze 
smart plug modules and smart light bulbs.  The Wyze app does not seem 
to support what I'm looking for.

Thermostat hijack.  There's really no reason to do that.  It still 
won't give me the notifications I want.  If I just want to turn light 
on or off, I can do that with smart switch, smart plug module or 
smart switch.

You guys are all great at creative problem solving.  I was hoping to 
figure out how to get a notification if the lights are left on.  If I 
can't find a way to do that, I will have to look into some of these 
things as a plan B.  Thank you all!

-Steve

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 11:40:52 -0500 01/20/2023 11:41:00 AM, Serialize complete at 01/20/2023 11:41:00 AM

This is a multipart message in MIME format.
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First, I am not a fan of ANY IOT device, solution, etc.  So I don't put 
anything like that anywhere in my home networks.

Next, sometimes old school is best.  There are X-10 devices that are way 
out dated (and hence, no one is trying to hack them, not like they can 
without accessing your AC current on your side of the transformer.  If 
someone can do that, you have bigger problems.)  They can also be bought 
for pennies.

Anyway, there are lots of switches and relays and such to control 120 vac.

There is also a serial (read- NOT NETWORKABLE) interface.  You need an old 
computer to run it (and it can be a stand alone machine.)

You program the interface to activate in anyway you want to or even run 
marcos.  Then the computer can be turned off.

What I would do would be you program the main 'X-10' switch that you use 
when you want to turn on the garage light.  The macro would do this...
-Turn on light G-1
-Wait 60 minutes
-Turn off light G-1
-Wait 30 seconds
-Turn on light G-1
-Wait 1 minute
-Turn off light G-1

The second 'turn on' would be if you were under a car or something.  You 
know your 1 hour is up when the light goes off, you can get up, the light 
will come back on, you walk over to the switch and press it.  This will 
start the macro all over again.

Note- I'm having serious questions about your 'shop status' if you ONLY 
need a light on for an hour in your shop.  8>)

Just an old school solution with new world security considerations.

Moose

From:   Steven Trovato <[email-masked]>
To:     shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date:   01/19/2023 14:45
Subject:        Re: [Shop-talk] left the light on?
Sent by:        "Shop-talk" <[email-masked]>

-Steve

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk 
http://autox.team.net/archive

http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

--=_alternative 005BA2848525893D_=

<font size=2 face="sans-serif">First, I am not a fan of ANY IOT device,
solution, etc. &nbsp;So I don't put anything like that anywhere in my home
networks.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Next, sometimes old school is best.
&nbsp;There are X-10 devices that are way out dated (and hence, no one
is trying to hack them, not like they can without accessing your AC current
on your side of the transformer. &nbsp;If someone can do that, you have
bigger problems.) &nbsp;They can also be bought for pennies.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Anyway, there are lots of switches and
relays and such to control 120 vac.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">There is also a serial (read- NOT NETWORKABLE)
interface. &nbsp;You need an old computer to run it (and it can be a stand
alone machine.)</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">You program the interface to activate
in anyway you want to or even run marcos. &nbsp;Then the computer can be
turned off.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">What I would do would be you program
the main 'X-10' switch that you use when you want to turn on the garage
light. &nbsp;The macro would do this...</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">-Turn on light G-1</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">-Wait 60 minutes</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">-Turn off light G-1</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">-Wait 30 seconds</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">-Turn on light G-1</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">-Wait 1 minute</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">-Turn off light G-1</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">The second 'turn on' would be if you
were under a car or something. &nbsp;You know your 1 hour is up when the
light goes off, you can get up, the light will come back on, you walk over
to the switch and press it. &nbsp;This will start the macro all over again.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Note- I'm having serious questions about
your 'shop status' if you ONLY need a light on for an hour in your shop.
&nbsp;8&gt;)</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Just an old school solution with new
world security considerations.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Moose</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Steven Trovato &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">shop-talk &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">01/19/2023 14:45</font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp;</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: [Shop-talk]
left the light on?</font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Sent by: &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp;</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&quot;Shop-talk&quot;
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</font>
<br>
<hr noshade>
<br>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=2>Lots of interesting ideas!<br>
<br>
webcam. &nbsp;This will allow me to look and see if the lights are on,
but <br>
I don't think it can send me a notification if they are left on.<br>
<br>
Alexa. &nbsp;This is interesting. &nbsp;If I can tell Alexa to alert me
if <br>
lights are on for an hour, that would be good. &nbsp;I'm not sure if it
<br>
can do that. &nbsp;I'll have to look into it.<br>
<br>
Motion sensor + backup light. &nbsp;This is a different approach that I
<br>
will consider if I can't get what I'm looking for.<br>
<br>
Wyze switch. &nbsp;I am not familiar with the switch, but I do have Wyze
<br>
smart plug modules and smart light bulbs. &nbsp;The Wyze app does not seem
<br>
to support what I'm looking for.<br>
<br>
Thermostat hijack. &nbsp;There's really no reason to do that. &nbsp;It
still <br>
won't give me the notifications I want. &nbsp;If I just want to turn light
<br>
on or off, I can do that with smart switch, smart plug module or <br>
smart switch.<br>
<br>
You guys are all great at creative problem solving. &nbsp;I was hoping
to <br>
figure out how to get a notification if the lights are left on. &nbsp;If
I <br>
can't find a way to do that, I will have to look into some of these <br>
things as a plan B. &nbsp;Thank you all!<br>
<br>
-Steve<br>
<br>
<br>
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From: Steven Trovato <[email-masked]> mail.megageek.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 13:22:51 -0500

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Well, there is some risk with IOT, but I don't think the exposure is 
that great with this situation.  What would the hacker do, blink my 
workshop light?  Anyway, I am familiar with X-10.  What you are doing 
is controlling the light like any timer would, with the added 1 
minute extra activation.  This is still not doing what I asked for, 
which is to notify me if I forgot to turn the light off.  BTW, the 1 
hour was really more of an example than an estimate of shop 
usage.  Just like my garage door, I get a warning if the door is open 
for an hour.  Then that repeats on an interval until I close 
it.  That doesn't mean I don't leave it open all day if I am doing 
something.  It just means my phone alerts me periodically that the 
door is open.  It isn't a big deal to ignore it in those 
cases.  Actually, as far as hacking IOT goes, the garage door is a 
greater risk than controlling my light.  A hacker could theoretically 
open my garage door.  I guess one would have to balance the risk of 
that against the likelihood of accidentally leaving the door open all 
night.  I'm pretty surprised that in this world of home automation, 
there are lots of ways to control my lights, but there doesn't seem 
to be a way to get a warning if the light is left on.

-Steve

At 11:40 AM 1/20/2023, [email-masked] wrote:
>First, I am not a fan of ANY IOT device, solution, etc.  So I don't 
>put anything like that anywhere in my home networks.
>
>Next, sometimes old school is best.  There are X-10 devices that are 
>way out dated (and hence, no one is trying to hack them, not like 
>they can without accessing your AC current on your side of the 
>transformer.  If someone can do that, you have bigger 
>problems.)  They can also be bought for pennies.
>
>There is also a serial (read- NOT NETWORKABLE) interface.  You need 
>an old computer to run it (and it can be a stand alone machine.)
>
>You program the interface to activate in anyway you want to or even 
>run marcos.  Then the computer can be turned off.
>
>What I would do would be you program the main 'X-10' switch that you 
>use when you want to turn on the garage light.  The macro would do this...
>-Turn on light G-1
>-Wait 60 minutes
>-Turn off light G-1
>-Wait 30 seconds
>-Turn on light G-1
>-Wait 1 minute
>-Turn off light G-1
>
>The second 'turn on' would be if you were under a car or 
>something.  You know your 1 hour is up when the light goes off, you 
>can get up, the light will come back on, you walk over to the switch 
>and press it.  This will start the macro all over again.
>
>Note- I'm having serious questions about your 'shop status' if you 
>ONLY need a light on for an hour in your shop.  8>)
>

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<html>
<body>
Well, there is some risk with IOT, but I don't think the exposure is that
great with this situation.&nbsp; What would the hacker do, blink my
workshop light?&nbsp; Anyway, I am familiar with X-10.&nbsp; What you are
doing is controlling the light like any timer would, with the added 1
minute extra activation.&nbsp; This is still not doing what I asked for,
which is to notify me if I forgot to turn the light off.&nbsp; BTW, the 1
hour was really more of an example than an estimate of shop usage.&nbsp;
Just like my garage door, I get a warning if the door is open for an
hour.&nbsp; Then that repeats on an interval until I close it.&nbsp; That
doesn't mean I don't leave it open all day if I am doing something.&nbsp;
It just means my phone alerts me periodically that the door is
open.&nbsp; It isn't a big deal to ignore it in those cases.&nbsp;
Actually, as far as hacking IOT goes, the garage door is a greater risk
than controlling my light.&nbsp; A hacker could theoretically open my
garage door.&nbsp; I guess one would have to balance the risk of that
against the likelihood of accidentally leaving the door open all
night.&nbsp; I'm pretty surprised that in this world of home automation,
there are lots of ways to control my lights, but there doesn't seem to be
a way to get a warning if the light is left on.&nbsp; <br><br>
-Steve<br><br>
At 11:40 AM 1/20/2023, [email-masked] wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D""><font size=3D2>First, I am n=
ot a
fan of ANY IOT device, solution, etc.&nbsp; So I don't put anything like
that anywhere in my home networks.</font> <br><br>
<font size=3D2>Next, sometimes old school is best.&nbsp; There are X-10
devices that are way out dated (and hence, no one is trying to hack them,
not like they can without accessing your AC current on your side of the
transformer.&nbsp; If someone can do that, you have bigger
problems.)&nbsp; They can also be bought for pennies.</font> <br>
<br>
<font size=3D2>Anyway, there are lots of switches and relays and such to
control 120 vac.</font> <br><br>
<font size=3D2>There is also a serial (read- NOT NETWORKABLE)
interface.&nbsp; You need an old computer to run it (and it can be a
stand alone machine.)</font> <br><br>
<font size=3D2>You program the interface to activate in anyway you want to
or even run marcos.&nbsp; Then the computer can be turned off.</font>
<br><br>
<font size=3D2>What I would do would be you program the main 'X-10' switch
that you use when you want to turn on the garage light.&nbsp; The macro
would do this...</font> <br>
<font size=3D2>-Turn on light G-1</font> <br>
<font size=3D2>-Wait 60 minutes</font> <br>
<font size=3D2>-Turn off light G-1</font> <br>
<font size=3D2>-Wait 30 seconds</font> <br>
<font size=3D2>-Turn on light G-1</font> <br>
<font size=3D2>-Wait 1 minute</font> <br>
<font size=3D2>-Turn off light G-1</font> <br><br>
<font size=3D2>The second 'turn on' would be if you were under a car or
something.&nbsp; You know your 1 hour is up when the light goes off, you
can get up, the light will come back on, you walk over to the switch and
press it.&nbsp; This will start the macro all over again.</font>
<br><br>
<font size=3D2>Note- I'm having serious questions about your 'shop status'
if you ONLY need a light on for an hour in your shop.&nbsp; 8&gt;)</font>
<br><br>
<font size=3D2>Just an old school solution with new world security
considerations.</font> <br><br>
<font size=3D2>Moose</font> </blockquote><div id=3D"DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8=
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[email-masked]

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From: Eric Russell <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 15:55:21 -0500

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Are you needing to know if you left the lights on while you're home (vs
away from home)? If the fact the lights are on in the garage is not easily
visible from the house could you add an outside light - visible from the
house - tied in to the interior lights?

If you need to know if you left the lights on while you are away from home
then of course this won't help...

EjR

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 2:49 PM Steven Trovato <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> great with this situation.  What would the hacker do, blink my workshop
> light?  Anyway, I am familiar with X-10.  What you are doing is controlling
> the light like any timer would, with the added 1 minute extra activation.
> This is still not doing what I asked for, which is to notify me if I forgot
> to turn the light off.  BTW, the 1 hour was really more of an example than
> an estimate of shop usage.  Just like my garage door, I get a warning if
> the door is open for an hour.  Then that repeats on an interval until I
> close it.  That doesn't mean I don't leave it open all day if I am doing
> something.  It just means my phone alerts me periodically that the door is
> open.  It isn't a big deal to ignore it in those cases.  Actually, as far
> as hacking IOT goes, the garage door is a greater risk than controlling my
> light.  A hacker could theoretically open my garage door.  I guess one
> would have to balance the risk of that against the likelihood of
> accidentally leaving the door open all night.  I'm pretty surprised that in
> this world of home automation, there are lots of ways to control my lights,
> but there doesn't seem to be a way to get a warning if the light is left
> on.
>
> -Steve
>
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>

-- 
Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:large">Are=
 you needing to know if you left the lights on while you&#39;re home (vs aw=
ay from home)? If the fact the lights are on in the garage is not easily vi=
sible from the house could you add an outside light - visible from the hous=
e - tied in to the interior lights?=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-size:large"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-size:large">If you need to know if you left the lights on while you ar=
e away from home then of course this won&#39;t help...</div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-size:large"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-size:large">EjR=C2=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 2:49 P=
M Steven Trovato &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">strovato@opt=
online.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">
<div>
Well, there is some risk with IOT, but I don&#39;t think the exposure is th=
at
great with this situation.=C2=A0 What would the hacker do, blink my
workshop light?=C2=A0 Anyway, I am familiar with X-10.=C2=A0 What you are
doing is controlling the light like any timer would, with the added 1
minute extra activation.=C2=A0 This is still not doing what I asked for,
which is to notify me if I forgot to turn the light off.=C2=A0 BTW, the 1
hour was really more of an example than an estimate of shop usage.=C2=A0
Just like my garage door, I get a warning if the door is open for an
hour.=C2=A0 Then that repeats on an interval until I close it.=C2=A0 That
doesn&#39;t mean I don&#39;t leave it open all day if I am doing something.=
=C2=A0
It just means my phone alerts me periodically that the door is
open.=C2=A0 It isn&#39;t a big deal to ignore it in those cases.=C2=A0
Actually, as far as hacking IOT goes, the garage door is a greater risk
than controlling my light.=C2=A0 A hacker could theoretically open my
garage door.=C2=A0 I guess one would have to balance the risk of that
against the likelihood of accidentally leaving the door open all
night.=C2=A0 I&#39;m pretty surprised that in this world of home automation=
,
there are lots of ways to control my lights, but there doesn&#39;t seem to =
be
a way to get a warning if the light is left on.=C2=A0 <br><br>
-Steve<br><br>
At 11:40 AM 1/20/2023, <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><font size=3D"2">First, I am not a
fan of ANY IOT device, solution, etc.=C2=A0 So I don&#39;t put anything lik=
e
that anywhere in my home networks.</font> <br><br>
<font size=3D"2">Next, sometimes old school is best.=C2=A0 There are X-10
devices that are way out dated (and hence, no one is trying to hack them,
not like they can without accessing your AC current on your side of the
transformer.=C2=A0 If someone can do that, you have bigger
problems.)=C2=A0 They can also be bought for pennies.</font> <br>
<br>
<font size=3D"2">Anyway, there are lots of switches and relays and such to
control 120 vac.</font> <br><br>
<font size=3D"2">There is also a serial (read- NOT NETWORKABLE)
interface.=C2=A0 You need an old computer to run it (and it can be a
stand alone machine.)</font> <br><br>
<font size=3D"2">You program the interface to activate in anyway you want t=
o
or even run marcos.=C2=A0 Then the computer can be turned off.</font>
<br><br>
<font size=3D"2">What I would do would be you program the main &#39;X-10&#3=
9; switch
that you use when you want to turn on the garage light.=C2=A0 The macro
would do this...</font> <br>
<font size=3D"2">-Turn on light G-1</font> <br>
<font size=3D"2">-Wait 60 minutes</font> <br>
<font size=3D"2">-Turn off light G-1</font> <br>
<font size=3D"2">-Wait 30 seconds</font> <br>
<font size=3D"2">-Turn on light G-1</font> <br>
<font size=3D"2">-Wait 1 minute</font> <br>
<font size=3D"2">-Turn off light G-1</font> <br><br>
<font size=3D"2">The second &#39;turn on&#39; would be if you were under a =
car or
something.=C2=A0 You know your 1 hour is up when the light goes off, you
can get up, the light will come back on, you walk over to the switch and
press it.=C2=A0 This will start the macro all over again.</font>
<br><br>
<font size=3D"2">Note- I&#39;m having serious questions about your &#39;sho=
p status&#39;
if you ONLY need a light on for an hour in your shop.=C2=A0 8&gt;)</font>
<br><br>
<font size=3D"2">Just an old school solution with new world security
considerations.</font> <br><br>
<font size=3D"2">Moose</font> </blockquote><div id=3D"m_4555033260368118229=
DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br><table style=3D"border-top:1px so=
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</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Eric Russell<div>Mebane, NC</di=
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