Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Dead battery question

From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 11:47:02 -0600

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> On Jan 2, 2023, at 09:22, John T. Blair <[email-masked]> wrote:
> =EF=BB=BF At 09:06 AM 1/2/2023, Thomas Coradeschi wrote:
>=20
> >At least you can get the hood open to connect jumper cables! My boxster h=
as
> >solenoid operated latches for both the trunk and the frunk (guess which i=
s=20
> >which!). Fortunately, the engineers at Porsche added a connector to the f=
use=20
> >block in the driver=E2=80=99s footwell, ....
>=20
> Tom,
>=20
> You've got to wonder what the heck these designer were thinking.  Do they e=
ver=20
> try to use the stuff they design.  Not to mention the cost.
>=20
> For example:
>=20
> 1. We used to have a fan that was bolted to the crank or the water pump.  Y=
es it
> made a little noise at high speeds, but you had so much other noises you d=
idn't notice, and yes, if you were stuck idling for a long time the engine w=
ould over heat
> because the fan couldn't pull enough air.  But it didn't cost anything.=20=

Except the five hp draw at highway speed, whether there was a need for it or=
 not, which is a substantial fraction of the power required to move the whol=
e car, even a square Detroit behemoth.=20

Modern vehicles are better in every way than old ones. Not being able to fix=
 one with a rock and a pointy stick is not a problem, because they need much=
 less fixing.  Modern cars have coolant replacement intervals longer than th=
e car replacement intervals of those engine fan beastsl=

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Ja=
n 2, 2023, at 09:22, John T. Blair &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br>=
</blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

<font size=3D"3">At 09:06 AM 1/2/2023, Thomas Coradeschi wrote:<br><br>
&gt;At least you can get the hood open to connect jumper cables! My
boxster has<br>
&gt;solenoid operated latches for both the trunk and the frunk (guess
which is <br>
&gt;which!). Fortunately, the engineers at Porsche added a connector to
the fuse <br>
&gt;block in the driver=E2=80=99s footwell, ....<br><br>
Tom,<br><br>
You've got to wonder what the heck these designer were thinking.&nbsp; Do
they ever <br>
try to use the stuff they design.&nbsp; Not to mention the cost.<br><br>
For example:<br><br>
1. We used to have a fan that was bolted to the crank or the water
pump.&nbsp; Yes it<br>
made a little noise at high speeds, but you had so much other noises you
didn't notice, and yes, if you were stuck idling for a long time the
engine would over heat<br>
because the fan couldn't pull enough air.&nbsp; But it didn't cost
anything.&nbsp; </font></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Except the fiv=
e hp draw at highway speed, whether there was a need for it or not, which is=
 a substantial fraction of the power required to move the whole car, even a s=
quare Detroit behemoth.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Modern vehicles are b=
etter in every way than old ones. Not being able to fix one with a rock and a=
 pointy stick is not a problem, because they need much less fixing. &nbsp;Mo=
dern cars have coolant replacement intervals longer than the car replacement=
 intervals of those engine fan beastsl</div></div></body></html>=

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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

--===============7061917297144238368==--

---

From: Berry Kercheval <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 12:04:08 -0800

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Maybe mechanically, but not in style, panache or =C3=A9lan.  (IMHO)

On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 10:13 AM David Scheidt <[email-masked]> wrote:

>
> Modern vehicles are better in every way than old ones.
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">Maybe mechanically, but not in style, panache or =C3=A9la=
n. =C2=A0(IMHO)</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" c=
lass=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 10:13 AM David Scheidt &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-colo=
r:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Modern vehicles are better =
in every way than old ones.</div></div></div></blockquote></div></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Jim Juhas <[email-masked]> mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 17:48:41 -0500

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Wholeheartedly Agreed!!!!!!

On 1/2/2023 3:04 PM, Berry Kercheval wrote:
> Maybe mechanically, but not in style, panache or élan.  (IMHO)
>
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>

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  <body>
    Wholeheartedly Agreed!!!!!!<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/2/2023 3:04 PM, Berry Kercheval
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="auto">Maybe mechanically, but not in style, panache or
        élan.  (IMHO)</div>
      <div><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 10:13
            AM David Scheidt &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
            <div dir="auto">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div dir="ltr"><br>
                </div>
                <div dir="auto">Modern vehicles are better in every way
                  than old ones.</div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
      <img src="cid:[email-masked]" border="0"></div>
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From: Donald H Locker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2023 23:41:25 +0000 s=protonmail3; t=1672702897; x=1672962097; bh=1lUIXVCMCNKZoequwsjzgxuF3gsiHSzFDojlgaX/1oo=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=Q0yt+S1M5Bt4BOdz8QPAlVbHdzkmJw0HzvnNy7hkVSFCSVoxkMifnkEyUDZqtju3E AqqmtVPKqVOFZvjG4oSPnBiZ4r/XqnttouIJg67NrMZmNgtoGMAYUgKsEj7rS1a8Tx Ab8m9smxbtPDGBUm/0AwGP/210uFoYbxgyi142HjFXdPXHZ57X2wp77/wsVBGuy6PQ rufqnZ4xQxDSzJVAV0ddoHqGr5OcHko4w53F+JWGUXvcku7BKxI5p9iD8L8PXmpmN2 SkaAsXlhYyCj2UxIpRUZPYo5hSGVLIMxibF1TWGFM5n1xuaSiYu0ZP2ZHLJOvVcYV

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From: old dirtbeard <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 15:42:38 -0800

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Agreed, as well. I can tell the difference between an MG TC, TD, TF, or a
Triumph TR2, TR3, TR4, etc. from across the street.

Nowadays, I cannot even tell the difference between a Kia and a BMW, sad to
say...

But, yes, the spark plugs on new cars last 100K miles, there is not a
grease zerk to be found. Exhaust systems, starters, alternators, water
pumps also generally are good for 100K miles.

These all were routine maintenance items in the past. No points, timing or
carburetors to adjust on the new cars...

That much said, changing the spark plugs on a MG TF is a great deal easier
than changing the sparkplugs on a coil over spark plug on a turbo 4.

A friend of mine just accidentally dropped a spark into the engine bay of
his 2019 C7 Corvette and it did not come out the bottom, but it had a
pronounced harmonic rattle at about 2,500 RPM that was driving him crazy.

We had to put it on my lift and use a borescope for about 45 minutes to
locate the spark plug (it had wedged in the collector of the exhaust
headers),and then another 15 minutes to fabricate an "extractor" out of
welding rod and fish it out.

I had a Triumph TR6 that the shop manual called for replacing
the crankshaft main bearings at 50K miles *as routine maintenance.*

As shocking as that sounds for routine maintenance, you actually could
change the main bearings in that car just by dropping the oil pan,
releasing the main bearing bolts. removing the caps, and pushing out the
old shells with the new shells. It really only took a couple hours to do it=
.

It took longer to adjust the valves on the DOHC shimmed engine of a Fiat
124 Spyder that I had. :-)

The mechanical tolerances on the new cars are so much tighter and many of
the materials are superior as well. Of course much of these improved
tolerances and reduced maintenance is an artifact of the emission
standards that went into place 30 years ago and have been increasing (e.g.,
the exhaust and induction systems have to last a set number of years and a
set number of miles)

Yes, definitely more maintenance is required for the older vehicles, but
also it generally is much easier/quicker maintenance. And I would also say,
more enjoyable...  :-)

best,

doug

On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 2:56 PM Jim Juhas <[email-masked]> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 10:13 AM David Scheidt <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar=
chive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/james=
[email-masked]
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

--=20
Best,

Doug

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Agr=
eed, as well. I can tell the difference between an MG TC, TD, TF, or a Triu=
mph TR2, TR3, TR4, etc. from across the street.</div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-size:small">Nowadays, I cannot even tell the difference between =
a Kia and a BMW, sad to say...=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
size:small">But, yes, the spark plugs on new cars last 100K miles, there is=
 not a grease zerk to be found. Exhaust systems, starters, alternators, wat=
er pumps also generally are good for 100K miles. </div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:small">These all were routine maintenance items in the pa=
st. No points, timing or carburetors to adjust on the new cars...=C2=A0</di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">That much said, changing the=
 spark plugs on a MG TF is a great deal easier than changing the sparkplugs=
 on a coil over spark plug on a turbo 4.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-size:small">A friend of mine just accidentally dropped a spark into the=
 engine bay of his 2019 C7 Corvette and it did not come out the=C2=A0bottom=
, but it had a pronounced harmonic rattle at about 2,500 RPM that was drivi=
ng him crazy.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">We had to p=
ut it on my lift and use a borescope for about 45 minutes to locate the spa=
rk plug (it had wedged in=C2=A0the collector of the exhaust headers),and th=
en another 15 minutes to fabricate an &quot;extractor&quot; out of welding =
rod and fish it out.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:s=
mall"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I ha=
d a Triumph TR6 that the shop manual called for replacing the=C2=A0cranksha=
ft main bearings at 50K miles <i>as routine maintenance.</i></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-size:small">As shocking as that sounds for routine =
maintenance, you actually could change the main bearings in that car just b=
y dropping the oil pan, releasing the main bearing bolts. removing the caps=
, and pushing out the old shells with the new shells. It really only took a=
 couple hours to do it.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-siz=
e:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I=
t took longer to adjust the valves on the DOHC shimmed engine of a Fiat 124=
 Spyder that I had. :-)</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-siz=
e:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">T=
he mechanical=C2=A0tolerances on the new cars are so much tighter and many =
of the materials are superior as well. Of course much of these improved tol=
erances and reduced maintenance is an artifact=C2=A0of the emission standar=
ds=C2=A0that went into place 30 years ago and have been increasing (e.g., t=
he exhaust and induction systems have to last a set number of years and a s=
et number of miles)</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:sm=
all">=C2=A0=C2=A0<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:=
small">Yes, definitely more maintenance is required for the older vehicles,=
 but also it generally=C2=A0is much easier/quicker maintenance. And I would=
 also say, more enjoyable...=C2=A0 :-)</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-size:small">best,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:sm=
all"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">doug<=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div></div=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mo=
n, Jan 2, 2023 at 2:56 PM Jim Juhas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.f.juhas@sne=
t.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
    Wholeheartedly Agreed!!!!!!<br>
    <br>
    <div>On 1/2/2023 3:04 PM, Berry Kercheval
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      <div dir=3D"auto">Maybe mechanically, but not in style, panache or
        =C3=A9lan. =C2=A0(IMHO)</div>
      <div><br>
        <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
          <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 10:1=
3
            AM David Scheidt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" tar=
get=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir=3D"auto">
              <div dir=3D"ltr">
                <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
                </div>
                <div dir=3D"auto">Modern vehicles are better in every way
                  than old ones.</div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <pre>_______________________________________________

<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a>
//www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" target=3D"_bla=
nk">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.tea=
m.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>

alk/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman=
/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <div>-- <br>
      <img src=3D"cid:18574c0326610091b0c1" border=3D"0"></div>
  </div>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
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alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Best,<div><br><div>Doug</div></=
div></div></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Jack Brooks <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2023 02:43:15 +0000

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[email-masked]

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From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2023 06:25:48 -0500

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On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 8:50 PM old dirtbeard <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Nowadays, I cannot even tell the difference between a Kia and a BMW, sad
> to say...
>

Cars used to have different designers (because of style, panache, and
=C3=A9lan). Now they all have the same designer: air vs. Drag coefficient

> also it generally is much easier/quicker maintenance. And I would also sa=
y,
> more enjoyable...  :-)

Which is why I have old Triumphs as a hobby, and cheerfully pay a small
fortune to have someone else work on my modern cars on the rare occasion
that they need some work.   I don't even change my own oil or brake pads
any more, because I'm retired from working and I have better things to do.

-- Jeff

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 8:50 PM old di=
rtbeard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-size:small">Agreed, as well. I can tell the =
difference between an MG TC, TD, TF, or a Triumph TR2, TR3, TR4, etc. from =
across the street.</div><div style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div style=
=3D"font-size:small">Nowadays, I cannot even tell the difference between a =
Kia and a BMW, sad to say...=C2=A0</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><=
div>Cars used to have different designers (because of style, panache, and=
=C2=A0

=C3=A9lan). Now they all have the same designer: air vs. Drag coefficient<b=
r><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div style=3D"font-size:small">=C2=A0=C2=A0<br></div><div style=3D"font=
-size:small">Yes, definitely more maintenance is required for the older veh=
icles, but also it generally=C2=A0is much easier/quicker maintenance. And I=
 would also say, more enjoyable...=C2=A0 :-)</div><div style=3D"font-size:s=
mall"></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Which is why I have old =
Triumphs as a hobby, and cheerfully pay a small fortune to have someone els=
e work on my modern cars on the rare=C2=A0occasion that they need=C2=A0some=
 work.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I don&#39;t even change my own oil or brake pads any mor=
e, because I&#39;m retired from=C2=A0working and I have better things to do=
.<br><br>-- Jeff<br><br><br></div></div></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2023 12:33:04 +0000 (UTC)

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=20

Which is why I have old Triumphs as a hobby, and cheerfully pay a small for=
tune to have someone else work on my modern cars on the rare=C2=A0occasion =
that they need=C2=A0some work.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I don't even change my own oil o=
r brake pads any more, because I'm retired from=C2=A0working and I have bet=
ter things to do.

 BINGO!=C2=A0=C2=A0 DING DING DING DING
Give that man a cigar.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2023 5:25 am
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Dead battery question

Agreed, as well. I can tell the difference between an MG TC, TD, TF, or a T=
riumph TR2, TR3, TR4, etc. from across the street.
Nowadays, I cannot even tell the difference between a Kia and a BMW, sad to=
 say...=C2=A0

Cars used to have different designers (because of style, panache, and=C2=A0=
=C3=A9lan). Now they all have the same designer: air vs. Drag coefficient

=C2=A0=C2=A0
Yes, definitely more maintenance is required for the older vehicles, but al=
so it generally=C2=A0is much easier/quicker maintenance. And I would also s=
ay, more enjoyable...=C2=A0 :-)

Which is why I have old Triumphs as a hobby, and cheerfully pay a small for=
tune to have someone else work on my modern cars on the rare=C2=A0occasion =
that they need=C2=A0some work.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I don't even change my own oil o=
r brake pads any more, because I'm retired from=C2=A0working and I have bet=
ter things to do.

-- Jeff

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive

[email-masked]

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<div style=3D"color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><bloc=
kquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 3px;">Which is w=
hy I have old Triumphs as a hobby, and cheerfully pay a small fortune to ha=
ve someone else work on my modern cars on the rare&nbsp;occasion that they =
need&nbsp;some work.&nbsp; &nbsp;I don't even change my own oil or brake pa=
ds any more, because I'm retired from&nbsp;working and I have better things=
 to do.<br clear=3D"none"></blockquote></div>

<div> <font size=3D"3">BINGO!&nbsp;&nbsp; DING DING DING DING</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">Give that man a cigar.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">Couldn't have said it better myself.<br>
</font></div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"clear:both">
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div><font size=3D"4">Dave <br>
</font></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"><=
br>
</span></div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font=
 size=3D"2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Jeff Scarbrough &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: [email-masked]<br>
Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2023 5:25 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Dead battery question<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv1629682734">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"yiv1629682734gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"yiv1629682734gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 8=
:50 PM old dirtbeard &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"r=
ect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"=
></div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class=3D"yiv1629682734gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-size:small;">Agreed, as well. I can tell the difference =
between an MG TC, TD, TF, or a Triumph TR2, TR3, TR4, etc. from across the =
street.</div>

<div style=3D"font-size:small;"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div style=3D"font-size:small;">Nowadays, I cannot even tell the difference=
 between a Kia and a BMW, sad to say...&nbsp;</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>Cars used to have different designers (because of style, panache, and&=
nbsp;

=C3=A9lan). Now they all have the same designer: air vs. Drag coefficient
<div id=3D"yiv1629682734yqtfd48727" class=3D"yiv1629682734yqt1023818034"><b=
r clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class=3D"yiv1629682734gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div id=3D"yiv1629682734yqtfd52173" class=3D"yiv1629682734yqt1023818034">
<div style=3D"font-size:small;">&nbsp;&nbsp;<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div style=3D"font-size:small;">Yes, definitely more maintenance is require=
d for the older vehicles, but also it generally&nbsp;is much easier/quicker=
 maintenance. And I would also say, more enjoyable...&nbsp; :-)</div>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-size:small;"></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>Which is why I have old Triumphs as a hobby, and cheerfully pay a smal=
l fortune to have someone else work on my modern cars on the rare&nbsp;occa=
sion that they need&nbsp;some work.&nbsp; &nbsp;I don't even change my own =
oil or brake pads any more, because I'm retired from&nbsp;working and I hav=
e better things to do.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">-- Jeff
<div id=3D"yiv1629682734yqtfd31574" class=3D"yiv1629682734yqt1023818034"><b=
r clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

<div id=3D"yiv1629682734yqtfd18425" class=3D"yiv1629682734yqt1023818034">
</div>
</div>
</div>

<div class=3D"yqt1023818034" id=3D"yqtfd60025">____________________________=
___________________<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:Shop-talk@autox.=
team.net">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a shape=
=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear=3D"none">Suggested annual donation&n=
bsp; $12.96<br clear=3D"none">Archive: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www=
.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/piperm=
ail/shop-talk </a><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br clear=3D"none"><br c=
lear=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http=
://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br clear=
=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
</font></div>
</div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Jack Brooks <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2023 14:08:01 +0000

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Yes.  TR3 and TR8 here.

Jack
________________________________
From: Shop-talk <[email-masked]> on behalf of Jeff Scarbr=
ough <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2023 3:25:48 AM
Cc: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Dead battery question

[email-masked]>> wrote:
Agreed, as well. I can tell the difference between an MG TC, TD, TF, or a T=
riumph TR2, TR3, TR4, etc. from across the street.

Cars used to have different designers (because of style, panache, and  =E9l=
an). Now they all have the same designer: air vs. Drag coefficient

Yes, definitely more maintenance is required for the older vehicles, but al=
so it generally is much easier/quicker maintenance. And I would also say, m=
ore enjoyable...  :-)

Which is why I have old Triumphs as a hobby, and cheerfully pay a small for=
tune to have someone else work on my modern cars on the rare occasion that =
they need some work.   I don't even change my own oil or brake pads any mor=
e, because I'm retired from working and I have better things to do.

-- Jeff

--_000_CY5PR11MB6533D196E632F6AB7EF15A1BA8F49CY5PR11MB6533namp_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
</head>
<body>
<div dir=3D"auto">Yes.&nbsp; TR3 and TR8 here.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color: rgb(33, 33, 33); background-color: rgb(25=
5, 255, 255);">
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color: rgb(33, 33, 33); background-color: rgb(25=
5, 255, 255);">
Jack</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Shop-talk &lt;shop-ta=
[email-masked]&gt; on behalf of Jeff Scarbrough &lt;fishplate@gm=
ail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 3, 2023 3:25:48 AM<br>
<b>Cc:</b> [email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] Dead battery question</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 8:50 PM old =
dirtbeard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a=
>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-size:small">Agreed, as well. I can tell the difference b=
etween an MG TC, TD, TF, or a Triumph TR2, TR3, TR4, etc. from across the s=
treet.</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:small">Nowadays, I cannot even tell the difference =
between a Kia and a BMW, sad to say...&nbsp;</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cars used to have different designers (because of style, panache, and&=
nbsp; =E9lan). Now they all have the same designer: air vs. Drag coefficien=
t<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-size:small">&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:small">Yes, definitely more maintenance is required=
 for the older vehicles, but also it generally&nbsp;is much easier/quicker =
maintenance. And I would also say, more enjoyable...&nbsp; :-)</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:small"></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Which is why I have old Triumphs as a hobby, and cheerfully pay a smal=
l fortune to have someone else work on my modern cars on the rare&nbsp;occa=
sion that they need&nbsp;some work.&nbsp; &nbsp;I don't even change my own =
oil or brake pads any more, because I'm retired from&nbsp;working
 and I have better things to do.<br>
<br>
-- Jeff<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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[email-masked]

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