Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Etching bare metal

From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 19:59:25 -0600

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Several years ago I was stripping the frame on my 67.5 Datsun roadster using=
 a pressure washer with a media blaster tip & was really surprised, not only=
 how fast it stripped down to bare metal, but how fast it flash rusted. With=
in a few minutes of blasting, it rusted. I finally had to blast a minute or s=
o, then dry & phosphate coat it before continuing. The phosphate I used need=
ed to be washed off before priming which added to the process. Wish I could h=
ave found some of the phosphate that didn=E2=80=99t need washing but nobody s=
tocked it.=20

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne=20
We support Habitat for Humanity

On Nov 13, 2022, at 4:41 PM, John Innis <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
I often use phosphoric acid to clean and de-rust fuel tanks before coating w=
ith an epoxy sealer.  I find it works great for getting ALL that last rust o=
ut and etching the surface nicely.  As I am sure you recall, you must clean a=
nd paint immediately.  Steel etched with acid will be highly susceptible to c=
orrosion if not coated right away.  I like to clean with water to neutralize=
 the acid then immediately rinse with solvent to get rid of the water.  Dena=
tured alcohol works great to dry the water, but might not be compatible with=
 all types of primer. =20

On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:31 PM Jim Stone <[email-masked]> wrote:
> The last time I painted a car was in the 1980=E2=80=99s, which I=E2=80=99m=
 pretty sure is before the invention of self-etching primer.  If it was arou=
nd then, I didn=E2=80=99t know about it.  I learned everything I knew from r=
eading DIY books and used a phosphoric acid solution to etch bare metal befo=
re priming.  I haven=E2=80=99t heard of anyone doing that anymore, but need t=
o prime a trunk lid and am thinking it might be worth a phosphoric acid wash=
 first.  I had the lid dipped about 10 years ago and it was left untreated a=
ll this time.  (Not by me, but that is a different and longer story.)  The l=
id has been sitting on the car and the underside still looks nearly perfect.=
  The car with has always been garaged but the top had a light coating of ru=
st.  I=E2=80=99ve removed that now but there are some pits here and there (p=
robably from before the dipping) and I would like to be 100% sure it is rust=
 free before priming it. =20
>=20
> I have a gallon of this sitting around: https://www.amazon.com/Klean-Strip=
-GKPA30220-Gallon-Phosphoric/dp/B00945D15I  Is there any reason not to wash t=
he surface with a diluted solution before priming?  Or, should I just use so=
mething like Rust-Oleum Rust Reformer (https://www.rustoleum.com/product-cat=
alog/consumer-brands/auto/removers-and-chemicals/rust-reformer-spray/) and c=
all it a day?
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> [email-masked]
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc=
hive
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinni=
[email-masked]
>=20

--=20
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D Never offend people with style when you   =3D
=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Several years ago I was stripping the frame=
 on my 67.5 Datsun roadster using a pressure washer with a media blaster tip=
 &amp; was really surprised, not only how fast it stripped down to bare meta=
l, but how fast it flash rusted. Within a few minutes of blasting, it rusted=
. I finally had to blast a minute or so, then dry &amp; phosphate coat it be=
fore continuing. The phosphate I used needed to be washed off before priming=
 which added to the process. Wish I could have found some of the phosphate t=
hat didn=E2=80=99t need washing but nobody stocked it.&nbsp;<div><br></div><=
div>Peace,</div><div>Pat<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Pat Horne&nbsp;<div>We supp=
ort Habitat for Humanity</div><div><br></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On N=
ov 13, 2022, at 4:41 PM, John Innis &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr">I often use phosphoric acid=
 to clean and de-rust fuel tanks before coating with an epoxy sealer.&nbsp; I=
 find it works great for getting ALL that last rust out and etching the surf=
ace nicely.&nbsp; As I am sure you recall, you must clean and paint immediat=
ely.&nbsp; Steel etched with acid will be highly susceptible to corrosion if=
 not coated right&nbsp;away.&nbsp; I like to clean with water to neutralize t=
he acid then immediately rinse with solvent to get rid of the water.&nbsp; D=
enatured alcohol works great to dry the water, but might not be compatible w=
ith all types of primer.&nbsp; <br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:31 PM Jim Stone &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"o=
verflow-wrap: break-word;">The last time I painted a car was in the 1980=E2=80=
=99s, which I=E2=80=99m pretty sure is before the invention of self-etching p=
rimer.&nbsp; If it was around then, I didn=E2=80=99t know about it.&nbsp; I l=
earned everything I knew from reading DIY books and used a phosphoric acid s=
olution to etch bare metal before priming.&nbsp; I haven=E2=80=99t heard of a=
nyone doing that anymore, but need to prime a trunk lid and am thinking it m=
ight be worth a phosphoric acid wash first.&nbsp; I had the lid dipped about=
 10 years ago and it was left untreated all this time. &nbsp;(Not by me, but=
 that is a different and longer story.) &nbsp;The lid has been sitting on th=
e car and the underside still looks nearly perfect.&nbsp; The car with has a=
lways been garaged but the top had a light coating of rust.&nbsp; I=E2=80=99=
ve removed that now but there are some pits here and there (probably from be=
fore the dipping) and I would like to be 100% sure it is rust free before pr=
iming it. &nbsp;<div><br></div><div>I have a gallon of this sitting around: <=
a href=3D"https://www.amazon.com/Klean-Strip-GKPA30220-Gallon-Phosphoric/dp/=
B00945D15I" target=3D"_blank">https://www.amazon.com/Klean-Strip-GKPA30220-G=
allon-Phosphoric/dp/B00945D15I</a> &nbsp;Is there any reason not to wash the=
 surface with a diluted solution before priming?&nbsp; Or, should I just use=
 something like&nbsp;<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:&quot;He=
lvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial">Rust-Oleum Rust Reformer (</span><a href=
=3D"https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/auto/removers-=
and-chemicals/rust-reformer-spray/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.rustoleum.=
com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/auto/removers-and-chemicals/rust-reforme=
r-spray/</a>) and call it a day?</div></div>________________________________=
_______________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@auto=
x.team.net</a><br>
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=3D=
"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://=
autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
lk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team=
.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gm=
ail_signature">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>=3D Never offend people with style w=
hen you&nbsp;&nbsp; =3D<br>=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown&nbsp;=
 =3D<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span></span=
><br><span>[email-masked]</span><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.=
net/donate.html</span><br><span>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.96</span=
><br><span>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.tea=
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tox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</span><br><span=
></span><br></div></div></body></html>=

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[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From: Doug Braun <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 21:17:52 -0500

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I used this when doing a lot of bead blasting and sandblasting on my '31
Ford, and it was very helpful:

https://fsccoatings.com/zero-rust-prep-step-powder

You mix a tablespoon of the powder in a spray bottle of water, and spritz
some on the freshly-blasted metal.
The nice thing is, it's not corrosive, or bad to get on yourself.  It goes
a long way - one container
of the stuff was enough to do almost every square inch of the frame body,
and running gear.

Doug

On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 9:10 PM Pat Horne <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Several years ago I was stripping the frame on my 67.5 Datsun roadster
> using a pressure washer with a media blaster tip & was really surprised,
> not only how fast it stripped down to bare metal, but how fast it flash
> rusted. Within a few minutes of blasting, it rusted. I finally had to bla=
st
> a minute or so, then dry & phosphate coat it before continuing. The
> phosphate I used needed to be washed off before priming which added to th=
e
> process. Wish I could have found some of the phosphate that didn=E2=80=99=
t need
> washing but nobody stocked it.
>
> Peace,
> Pat
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I used this when doing a lot of bead=
 blasting and sandblasting on my &#39;31 Ford, and it was very helpful:</di=
v><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://fsccoatings.com/zero-rust-prep-ste=
p-powder">https://fsccoatings.com/zero-rust-prep-step-powder</a></div><div>=
<br></div><div>You mix a tablespoon of the powder in a spray bottle of wate=
r, and spritz some on the freshly-blasted metal.</div><div>The nice thing i=
s, it&#39;s not corrosive, or bad to get on yourself.=C2=A0 It goes a long =
way - one container</div><div>of the stuff was enough to do almost every sq=
uare inch of the frame body, and running gear.</div><div><br></div><div>Dou=
g<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 9:10 PM Pa=
t Horne &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><=
div dir=3D"auto">Several years ago I was stripping the frame on my 67.5 Dat=
sun roadster using a pressure washer with a media blaster tip &amp; was rea=
lly surprised, not only how fast it stripped down to bare metal, but how fa=
st it flash rusted. Within a few minutes of blasting, it rusted. I finally =
had to blast a minute or so, then dry &amp; phosphate coat it before contin=
uing. The phosphate I used needed to be washed off before priming which add=
ed to the process. Wish I could have found some of the phosphate that didn=
=E2=80=99t need washing but nobody stocked it.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Pea=
ce,</div><div>Pat<br><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Jim Stone <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 20:26:03 -0500

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Thanks, guys.  Very helpful.  The metal looks very good; I just want to =
be certain nothing is lurking in the pits that might come back to haunt =
me.

I am curious to know if anyone has ever tried the Rust-Oleum Rust =
Reformer under auto paint.  I have used it with good success in general =
shop work, but have wondered about its spot use as I work though the =
car.  I am thinking that any use of it would be hit with a second primer =
later, just for consistency of the primer surface.

Jim

> On Nov 13, 2022, at 9:17 PM, Doug Braun <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> I used this when doing a lot of bead blasting and sandblasting on my =
'31 Ford, and it was very helpful:
>=20
> https://fsccoatings.com/zero-rust-prep-step-powder =
<https://fsccoatings.com/zero-rust-prep-step-powder>
>=20
> You mix a tablespoon of the powder in a spray bottle of water, and =
spritz some on the freshly-blasted metal.
> The nice thing is, it's not corrosive, or bad to get on yourself.  It =
goes a long way - one container
> of the stuff was enough to do almost every square inch of the frame =
body, and running gear.
>=20
> Doug
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 9:10 PM Pat Horne <[email-masked] =
> Several years ago I was stripping the frame on my 67.5 Datsun roadster =
using a pressure washer with a media blaster tip & was really surprised, =
not only how fast it stripped down to bare metal, but how fast it flash =
rusted. Within a few minutes of blasting, it rusted. I finally had to =
blast a minute or so, then dry & phosphate coat it before continuing. =
The phosphate I used needed to be washed off before priming which added =
to the process. Wish I could have found some of the phosphate that =
didn=E2=80=99t need washing but nobody stocked it.=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk =
http://autox.team.net/archive
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Thanks, guys. &nbsp;Very helpful. &nbsp;The metal <i =
class=3D"">looks</i> very good; I just want to be certain nothing is =
lurking in the pits that might come back to haunt me.<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I am curious to know if anyone has ever =
tried the <span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(34, 34, 34); color: rgb(34, =
34, 34); font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial;" =
class=3D"">Rust-Oleum Rust Reformer under auto paint. &nbsp;I have used =
it with good&nbsp;</span><font color=3D"#222222" face=3D"Helvetica Neue, =
Helvetica, Arial" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(34, 34, =
34);" class=3D"">success in general shop work,&nbsp;but have wondered =
about its spot use as I work though the car. &nbsp;I am thinking that =
any use of it would be hit with a second primer later, just for =
consistency of the primer surface.</span></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#222222" face=3D"Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
Arial" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#222222" face=3D"Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" =
class=3D"">Jim</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#222222" =
face=3D"Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></font><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Nov 13, 2022, at 9:17 PM, Doug Braun &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"">I =
used this when doing a lot of bead blasting and sandblasting on my '31 =
Ford, and it was very helpful:</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://fsccoatings.com/zero-rust-prep-step-powder" =
class=3D"">https://fsccoatings.com/zero-rust-prep-step-powder</a></div><di=
v class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">You mix a tablespoon =
of the powder in a spray bottle of water, and spritz some on the =
freshly-blasted metal.</div><div class=3D"">The nice thing is, it's not =
corrosive, or bad to get on yourself.&nbsp; It goes a long way - one =
container</div><div class=3D"">of the stuff was enough to do almost =
every square inch of the frame body, and running gear.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Doug<br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 9:10 PM Pat =
Horne &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">Several =
years ago I was stripping the frame on my 67.5 Datsun roadster using a =
pressure washer with a media blaster tip &amp; was really surprised, not =
only how fast it stripped down to bare metal, but how fast it flash =
rusted. Within a few minutes of blasting, it rusted. I finally had to =
blast a minute or so, then dry &amp; phosphate coat it before =
continuing. The phosphate I used needed to be washed off before priming =
which added to the process. Wish I could have found some of the =
phosphate that didn=E2=80=99t need washing but nobody stocked =
it.&nbsp;<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Peace,</div><div class=3D"">Pat<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D"">Donate: =
&nbsp;$12.96<br class=3D"">Archive: =
http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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