Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires

From: "john niolon" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 17:54:51 -0500

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shop content... I drive my suburban into my shop
=20
time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20 years with good=20
service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no off=
 road
occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on=20
20' car hauler (once or twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)  Lookin=
g at reviews on my first choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS
275/55-20.   The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough ride..... My=
 current Michelin Defenders  (bought in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear well.=
=2E 76K miles on them so far)
=20
I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires   =E2=80=A6 so I'm=
=20
looking for your thoughts on Michelin or others afa mileage, ride, noise et=
c.
=20
thanks
john
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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">shop content... I drive my suburban into my sh=
op</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">time for tires... always used Michelin for the=
 last 20 years with good service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% =
highway or town ...no off road</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 2=
0' car hauler (once or twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)&nbsp; Lo=
oking at reviews on my first choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">275/55-20.&nbsp;&nbsp; The reviews talk a lot =
about road noise and rough ride..... My current Michelin Defenders&nbsp; (b=
ought in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear well.. 76K miles on them so far)</FO=
NT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">I just turned 75 and this might be my last set=
 of tires&nbsp;&nbsp;<IMG style=3D"BORDER-TOP: 0px; HEIGHT: 24px; BORDER-RI=
GHT: 0px; WIDTH: 24px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: 0px" alt=3D"Grinnin=
g Face with Smiling Eyes" src=3D"cid:1Ubv1Cy8vz.2LHRIWlkRyx@johns-desktop" =
align=3DabsMiddle>&nbsp;=E2=80=A6 so I'm looking for your thoughts on Miche=
lin or others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">john</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From: Ian McFetridge <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 21:21:42 -0400

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I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall 2020 and they
are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.  I=E2=80=99ve used Michelins on tr=
ucks
since I worked in the tire dept at Sam=E2=80=99s in college.  They always t=
ook the
least amount of weights to balance and had the least returns for issues or
to rebalance.  The manager at Costco said that is all still true when I
bought the last set.  YMMV :)

Best
Ian

On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon <[email-masked]> wrote:

> time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20 years with good
> service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no o=
ff
> road
> occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car hauler (once or twic=
e
> a year with load equalizing hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my first
> choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS
> 275/55-20.   The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough ride.....
> My current Michelin Defenders  (bought in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear
> well.. 76K miles on them so far)
>
> I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires  [image: Grinning
> Face with Smiling Eyes] =E2=80=A6 so I'm looking for your thoughts on Mic=
helin or
> others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.
>
> thanks
> john
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since f=
all 2020 and they are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99=
ve used Michelins on trucks since I worked in the tire dept at Sam=E2=80=99=
s in college.=C2=A0 They always took the least amount of weights to balance=
 and had the least returns for issues or to rebalance.=C2=A0 The manager at=
 Costco said that is all still true when I bought the last set.=C2=A0 YMMV =
:)</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Best=C2=A0</div><div =
dir=3D"auto">Ian</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-w=
idth:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204=
,204,204)">

<div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)">shop content... I drive my suburban into my shop</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)">time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20 years =
with good service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town=
 ...no off road</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)">occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20&#39; car haul=
er (once or twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)=C2=A0 Looking at re=
views on my first choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)">275/55-20.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The reviews talk a lot about road nois=
e and rough ride..... My current Michelin Defenders=C2=A0 (bought in Jan 20=
16 ride smooth and wear well.. 76K miles on them so far)</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)">I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires=C2=A0=
=C2=A0<img alt=3D"Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes" src=3D"cid:182e72b7af31c=
4708671" align=3D"absMiddle" style=3D"width: 24px; max-width: 100%; backgro=
und-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0) !important; border-color: rgb(255, 255, 255) !i=
mportant; color: rgb(255, 255, 255) !important;">=C2=A0=E2=80=A6 so I&#39;m=
 looking for your thoughts on Michelin or others afa mileage, ride, noise e=
tc.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)">thanks</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)">john</font></div></div>______________________________________=
_________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://=
autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Shannah Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 21:19:12 -0700

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Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.  I will
need tires at some point, and that's good to know.

That said, my car is the spare car of the family, and
has had the same tires since 2019.  How many years
can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used to
putt around town?  (My car has not quite 10,000 miles
on it.)

Thanks,
Shannah

On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall 2020 and the=
y
> are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.  I=E2=80=99ve used Michelins on =
trucks
> since I worked in the tire dept at Sam=E2=80=99s in college.  They always=
 took the
> least amount of weights to balance and had the least returns for issues o=
r
>> service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no =
off
>> road
>> occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car hauler (once or
>> twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my fi=
rst
>> I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires  [image:
>> Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes] =E2=80=A6 so I'm looking for your thoug=
hts on
>> Michelin or others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.
>>
>> thanks
>> john
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]=
g
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.=C2=A0 I =
will</div><div>need tires at some point, and that&#39;s good to know.</div>=
<div><br></div><div>That said, my car is the spare car of the family, and</=
div><div>has had the same tires since 2019.=C2=A0 How many years</div><div>=
can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used to</div><div>putt around=
 town?=C2=A0 (My car has not quite 10,000 miles</div><div>on it.)<br></div>=
<div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Shannah<br></div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28, 2022=
 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">I have had the Michelin Defende=
r LTX on my pickup since fall 2020 and they are wearing well, ride smooth a=
nd quiet.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ve used Michelins on trucks since I worked in the=
 tire dept at Sam=E2=80=99s in college.=C2=A0 They always took the least am=
ount of weights to balance and had the least returns for issues or to rebal=
ance.=C2=A0 The manager at Costco said that is all still true when I bought=
 the last set.=C2=A0 YMMV :)</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"a=
uto">Best=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">Ian</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03=
 PM john niolon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">jn=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi=
ng-left:1ex">

<div>
<div><font style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face=
=3D"Segoe UI">shop content... I drive my suburban into my shop</font></div>
<div><font style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face=
=3D"Segoe UI"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face=
=3D"Segoe UI">time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20 years =
with good service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town=
 ...no off road</font></div>
<div><font style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face=
=3D"Segoe UI">occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20&#39; car haul=
er (once or twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)=C2=A0 Looking at re=
views on my first choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS</font></div>
<div><font style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face=
=3D"Segoe UI">275/55-20.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The reviews talk a lot about road nois=
e and rough ride..... My current Michelin Defenders=C2=A0 (bought in Jan 20=
16 ride smooth and wear well.. 76K miles on them so far)</font></div>
<div><font style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face=
=3D"Segoe UI"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face=
=3D"Segoe UI">I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires=C2=A0=
=C2=A0<img alt=3D"Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes" src=3D"cid:182e72b7af31c=
4708671" style=3D"width: 24px; max-width: 100%; background-color: rgba(0, 0=
, 0, 0); border-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" alig=
n=3D"absMiddle">=C2=A0=E2=80=A6 so I&#39;m looking for your thoughts on Mic=
helin or others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.</font></div>
<div><font style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face=
=3D"Segoe UI"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face=
=3D"Segoe UI">thanks</font></div>
<div><font style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face=
=3D"Segoe UI">john</font></div></div>______________________________________=
_________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://=
autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
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ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
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alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://au=
tox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 22:48:24 -0700

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re: "How many years can a set of tires go ..."

Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained. Some--often people 
who make and sell tires--insist six years is the limit, regardless of 
mileage, and if the tires are constantly exposed to extreme weather and 
mileage that's not unreasonable. OTOH, if the tires are kept in a garage 
not subject to temperature extremes and are only used 'around town' you 
can usually go more, 7 or 8 years wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, 
going beyond 10 years is pushing your luck.

BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe the 6-year 
'rule.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a catastrophic 
failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire can cause the vehicle to 
roll over. Ford just got slapped with a $1B+ liability charge for an old 
truck that had a blowout, rolled, and the cab squashed the elderly 
occupants. A couple decades ago Ford got slammed when some incorrect, 
improperly inflated Firestone tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY 
back--caused some fatal rollover accidents with some Explorers.

My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it's time 
for new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and, unless they're 
showing 'checking'--cracking--or other damage they should be good for at 
least a couple more years. Check your tire pressures regularly (at least 
once a month).

On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge 
> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>     I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall 2020
>     and they are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.  I’ve used
>     Michelins on trucks since I worked in the tire dept at Sam’s in
>     college.  They always took the least amount of weights to balance
>     and had the least returns for issues or to rebalance.  The manager
>     at Costco said that is all still true when I bought the last set. 
>     YMMV :)
>
>     Best
>     Ian
>
>         time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20 years
>         with good service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95%
>         highway or town ...no off road
>         occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car hauler
>         (once or twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)  Looking
>         at reviews on my first choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS
>         275/55-20. The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough
>         ride..... My current Michelin Defenders  (bought in Jan 2016
>         ride smooth and wear well.. 76K miles on them so far)
>         I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires
>         Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes … so I'm looking for your
>         thoughts on Michelin or others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.
>         thanks
>         john
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>

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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    re: "How many years can a set of tires go ..."<br>
    <br>
    Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained. Some--often
    people who make and sell tires--insist six years is the limit,
    regardless of mileage, and if the tires are constantly exposed to
    extreme weather and mileage that's not unreasonable. OTOH, if the
    tires are kept in a garage not subject to temperature extremes and
    are only used 'around town' you can usually go more, 7 or 8 years
    wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, going beyond 10 years is pushing
    your luck.<br>
    <br>
    BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe the
    6-year 'rule.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a
    catastrophic failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire can cause
    the vehicle to roll over. Ford just got slapped with a $1B+
    liability charge for an old truck that had a blowout, rolled, and
    the cab squashed the elderly occupants. A couple decades ago Ford
    got slammed when some incorrect, improperly inflated Firestone
    tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY back--caused some fatal rollover
    accidents with some Explorers.<br>
    <br>
    My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it's
    time for new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and, unless
    they're showing 'checking'--cracking--or other damage they should be
    good for at least a couple more years. Check your tire pressures
    regularly (at least once a month).<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAy7z=[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.  I will</div>
        <div>need tires at some point, and that's good to know.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>That said, my car is the spare car of the family, and</div>
        <div>has had the same tires since 2019.  How many years</div>
        <div>can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used to</div>
        <div>putt around town?  (My car has not quite 10,000 miles</div>
        <div>on it.)<br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Thanks,</div>
        <div>Shannah<br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20
          PM Ian McFetridge &lt;<a
            href="mailto:[email-masked]"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="auto">I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my
            pickup since fall 2020 and they are wearing well, ride
            smooth and quiet.  I’ve used Michelins on trucks since I
            worked in the tire dept at Sam’s in college.  They always
            took the least amount of weights to balance and had the
            least returns for issues or to rebalance.  The manager at
            Costco said that is all still true when I bought the last
            set.  YMMV :)</div>
          <div dir="auto"><br>
          </div>
          <div dir="auto">Best </div>
          <div dir="auto">Ian</div>
          <div><br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">
              <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at
                8:03 PM john niolon &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                <div>
                  <div><font style="font-family:&quot;Segoe
                      UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="Segoe UI">shop
                      content... I drive my suburban into my shop</font></div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div><font style="font-family:&quot;Segoe
                      UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="Segoe UI">time
                      for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20
                      years with good service... Vehicle is 2008
                      Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no off
                      road</font></div>
                  <div><font style="font-family:&quot;Segoe
                      UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="Segoe UI">occasional
                      towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car hauler
                      (once or twice a year with load equalizing
                      hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my first choice
                      Michelin Defender LTX/MS</font></div>
                  <div><font style="font-family:&quot;Segoe
                      UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="Segoe UI">275/55-20.  
                      The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough
                      ride..... My current Michelin Defenders  (bought
                      in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear well.. 76K miles
                      on them so far)</font></div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div><font style="font-family:&quot;Segoe
                      UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="Segoe UI">I just
                      turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires  <img
                        alt="Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes"
                        src="cid:[email-masked]"
                        style="width: 24px; max-width: 100%;
                        background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);
                        border-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color:
                        rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="" align="absMiddle"> …
                      so I'm looking for your thoughts on Michelin or
                      others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.</font></div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div><font style="font-family:&quot;Segoe
                      UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="Segoe UI">thanks</font></div>
                  <div><font style="font-family:&quot;Segoe
                      UI&quot;;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="Segoe UI">john</font></div>
                </div>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 06:59:31 -0400

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I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had less than 2500 miles on
them because they were ten years old and definitely showing it.

I consider tires to be like oil - they should be changed at a mileage or
time interval, whichever comes first.  It's just something you have to
budget for.

On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04 Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> wrote:

> not subject to temperature extremes and are only used 'around town' you c=
an
> usually go more, 7 or 8 years wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, going
> beyond 10 years is pushing your luck.
>
> failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire can cause the vehicle to ro=
ll
> over. Ford just got slapped with a $1B+ liability charge for an old truck
> that had a blowout, rolled, and the cab squashed the elderly occupants. A
> couple decades ago Ford got slammed when some incorrect, improperly
> inflated Firestone tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY back--caused some fat=
al
> rollover accidents with some Explorers.
>
> My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it's time for
> new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and, unless they're showin=
g
> 'checking'--cracking--or other damage they should be good for at least a
> couple more years. Check your tire pressures regularly (at least once a
> month).
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge <[email-masked]=
>
> wrote:
>
>> I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall 2020 and
>> they are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.  I=E2=80=99ve used Micheli=
ns on
>> trucks since I worked in the tire dept at Sam=E2=80=99s in college.  The=
y always
>> took the least amount of weights to balance and had the least returns fo=
r
>> issues or to rebalance.  The manager at Costco said that is all still tr=
ue
>> when I bought the last set.  YMMV :)
>>
>> Best
>> Ian
>>
>>> service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no=
 off
>>> twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my f=
irst
>>> 275/55-20.   The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough ride....=
.
>>> Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes] =E2=80=A6 so I'm looking for your thou=
ghts on
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]=
rg
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar=
chive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspid=
[email-masked]
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had less than=
 2500 miles on them because they were ten years old and definitely showing =
it.=C2=A0=C2=A0<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I consider tir=
es to be like oil - they should be changed at a mileage or time interval, w=
hichever comes first.=C2=A0 It&#39;s just something you have to budget for.=
</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_=
attr">On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04 Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bspidel=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
    re: &quot;How many years can a set of tires go ...&quot;<br>
    <br>
    Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained. Some--often
    people who make and sell tires--insist six years is the limit,
    regardless of mileage, and if the tires are constantly exposed to
    extreme weather and mileage that&#39;s not unreasonable. OTOH, if the
    tires are kept in a garage not subject to temperature extremes and
    are only used &#39;around town&#39; you can usually go more, 7 or 8 yea=
rs
    wouldn&#39;t be too risky. At any rate, going beyond 10 years is pushin=
g
    your luck.<br>
    <br>
    BUT ... for an SUV I&#39;d be more cautious and probably observe the
    6-year &#39;rule.&#39; SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a
    catastrophic failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire can cause
    the vehicle to roll over. Ford just got slapped with a $1B+
    liability charge for an old truck that had a blowout, rolled, and
    the cab squashed the elderly occupants. A couple decades ago Ford
    got slammed when some incorrect, improperly inflated Firestone
    tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY back--caused some fatal rollover
    accidents with some Explorers.<br>
    <br>
    My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it&#39;s
    time for new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and, unless
    they&#39;re showing &#39;checking&#39;--cracking--or other damage they =
should be
    good for at least a couple more years. Check your tire pressures
    regularly (at least once a month).<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div>On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      <div dir=3D"ltr">
        <div>Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.=C2=A0 I will</div=
        <div>need tires at some point, and that&#39;s good to know.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>That said, my car is the spare car of the family, and</div>
        <div>has had the same tires since 2019.=C2=A0 How many years</div>
        <div>can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used to</div>
        <div>putt around town?=C2=A0 (My car has not quite 10,000 miles</di=
v>
        <div>on it.)<br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Thanks,</div>
        <div>Shannah<br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
        <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20
          PM Ian McFetridge &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir=3D"auto">I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my
            pickup since fall 2020 and they are wearing well, ride
            smooth and quiet.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ve used Michelins on trucks s=
ince I
            worked in the tire dept at Sam=E2=80=99s in college.=C2=A0 They=
 always
            took the least amount of weights to balance and had the
            least returns for issues or to rebalance.=C2=A0 The manager at
            Costco said that is all still true when I bought the last
            set.=C2=A0 YMMV :)</div>
          <div dir=3D"auto"><br>
          </div>
          <div dir=3D"auto">Best=C2=A0</div>
          <div dir=3D"auto">Ian</div>
          <div><br>
            <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
              <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at
                8:03 PM john niolon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                <div>
                  <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">shop
                      content... I drive my suburban into my shop</font></d=
iv>
                  <div>=C2=A0</div>
                  <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">time
                      for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20
                      years with good service... Vehicle is 2008
                      Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no off
                      road</font></div>
                  <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">occasional
                      towing my hobby truck to shows on 20&#39; car hauler
                      (once or twice a year with load equalizing
                      hitch...)=C2=A0 Looking at reviews on my first choice
                      Michelin Defender LTX/MS</font></div>
                  <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">275/55-20.=C2=A0=C2=A0
                      The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough
                      ride..... My current Michelin Defenders=C2=A0 (bought
                      in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear well.. 76K miles
                      on them so far)</font></div>
                  <div>=C2=A0</div>
                  <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">I just
                      turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires=C2=
=A0=C2=A0<img alt=3D"Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes" src=3D"cid:part1.BCNd=
[email-masked]" style=3D"width:24px;max-width:100%;background-co=
lor:rgba(0,0,0,0);border-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(255,255,255)" ali=
gn=3D"absMiddle">=C2=A0=E2=80=A6
                      so I&#39;m looking for your thoughts on Michelin or
                      others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.</font></div>
                  <div>=C2=A0</div>
                  <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">thanks</font></div>
                  <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">john</font></div>
                </div>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 06:25:52 -0700

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You'll get no argument from me. I just find it a bit disingenuous that 
some say 'absolutely only exactly six years' when there is so much 
difference between brands, type of tire, compound, usage, etc. Some 
brands--many are now made in you-know-where--I wouldn't use for six 
days. Sticky, warm weather-only performance tires lose grip over time, 
but the hard rubber compound on big bias-ply truck tires can go for a 
while (don't get me started on re-caps; I've seen too many in the middle 
of the road). There was another issue a few years ago, where I think 
Goodyear trailer tires were being used on large, heavy RVs. The outcome 
was predictable.

Also, OP only said 'had the same tires since 2019;' were they installed 
new three years ago, or did OP just buy the vehicle three years ago? 
There is (should be) a DOT date code on the tires (if there isn't, chuck 
them NOW). The tires could have sat in a hot warehouse for a couple 
years, and that has to be considered. My goto is Michelin, but I've got 
sets of other brands on a couple vehicles that I don't hate.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?gclid=CjwKCAjwx7GYBhB7EiwA0d8oe95O0cze_5curJnnU0hi2ck6SdvdojfgqLT7SaN3OaiNACn8-PPx_hoCyEoQAvD_BwE&techid=11&ef_id=CjwKCAjwx7GYBhB7EiwA0d8oe95O0cze_5curJnnU0hi2ck6SdvdojfgqLT7SaN3OaiNACn8-PPx_hoCyEoQAvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!354820920605!e!!g!!how%20to%20read%20tire%20dates&gclsrc=aw.ds

On 8/29/2022 3:59 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
> I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had less than 2500 miles 
> on them because they were ten years old and definitely showing it.
>
> I consider tires to be like oil - they should be changed at a mileage 
> or time interval, whichever comes first. It's just something you have 
> to budget for.
>
>     wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, going beyond 10 years is
>     pushing your luck.
>
>     catastrophic failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire can
>     cause the vehicle to roll over. Ford just got slapped with a $1B+
>     accidents with some Explorers.
>
>     time for new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and,
>     unless they're showing 'checking'--cracking--or other damage they
>     should be good for at least a couple more years. Check your tire
>     pressures regularly (at least once a month).
>
>
>
>>         I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall
>>         2020 and they are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.  I’ve
>>         used Michelins on trucks since I worked in the tire dept at
>>         Sam’s in college.  They always took the least amount of
>>         weights to balance and had the least returns for issues or to
>>         rebalance.  The manager at Costco said that is all still true
>>             time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20
>>             years with good service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500
>>             with 95% highway or town ...no off road
>>             occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car
>>             hauler (once or twice a year with load equalizing
>>             hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my first choice Michelin
>>             Defender LTX/MS
>>             275/55-20.   The reviews talk a lot about road noise and
>>             rough ride..... My current Michelin Defenders  (bought in
>>             Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear well.. 76K miles on them so
>>             far)

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    You'll get no argument from me. I just find it a bit disingenuous
    that some say 'absolutely only exactly six years' when there is so
    much difference between brands, type of tire, compound, usage, etc.
    Some brands--many are now made in you-know-where--I wouldn't use for
    six days. Sticky, warm weather-only performance tires lose grip over
    time, but the hard rubber compound on big bias-ply truck tires can
    go for a while (don't get me started on re-caps; I've seen too many
    in the middle of the road). There was another issue a few years ago,
    where I think Goodyear trailer tires were being used on large, heavy
    RVs. The outcome was predictable.<br>
    <br>
    Also, OP only said 'had the same tires since 2019;' were they
    installed new three years ago, or did OP just buy the vehicle three
    years ago? There is (should be) a DOT date code on the tires (if
    there isn't, chuck them NOW). The tires could have sat in a hot
    warehouse for a couple years, and that has to be considered. My goto
    is Michelin, but I've got sets of other brands on a couple vehicles
    that I don't hate.<br>
    <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?gclid=CjwKCAjwx7GYBhB7EiwA0d8oe95O0cze_5curJnnU0hi2ck6SdvdojfgqLT7SaN3OaiNACn8-PPx_hoCyEoQAvD_BwE&amp;techid=11&amp;ef_id=CjwKCAjwx7GYBhB7EiwA0d8oe95O0cze_5curJnnU0hi2ck6SdvdojfgqLT7SaN3OaiNACn8-PPx_hoCyEoQAvD_BwE:G:s&amp;s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!354820920605!e!!g!!how%20to%20read%20tire%20dates&amp;gclsrc=aw.ds">https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?gclid=CjwKCAjwx7GYBhB7EiwA0d8oe95O0cze_5curJnnU0hi2ck6SdvdojfgqLT7SaN3OaiNACn8-PPx_hoCyEoQAvD_BwE&amp;techid=11&amp;ef_id=CjwKCAjwx7GYBhB7EiwA0d8oe95O0cze_5curJnnU0hi2ck6SdvdojfgqLT7SaN3OaiNACn8-PPx_hoCyEoQAvD_BwE:G:s&amp;s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!354820920605!e!!g!!how%20to%20read%20tire%20dates&amp;gclsrc=aw.ds</a><br>
    <br>
    <br>
     <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/29/2022 3:59 AM, Jeff Scarbrough
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAO8Q7CPbvk37whpm9YV=[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="auto">I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had
        less than 2500 miles on them because they were ten years old and
        definitely showing it.  
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">I consider tires to be like oil - they should be
          changed at a mileage or time interval, whichever comes first. 
          It's just something you have to budget for.</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04
          Bob Spidell &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div> re: "How many years can a set of tires go ..."<br>
            <br>
            Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained.
            Some--often people who make and sell tires--insist six years
            is the limit, regardless of mileage, and if the tires are
            constantly exposed to extreme weather and mileage that's not
            unreasonable. OTOH, if the tires are kept in a garage not
            subject to temperature extremes and are only used 'around
            town' you can usually go more, 7 or 8 years wouldn't be too
            risky. At any rate, going beyond 10 years is pushing your
            luck.<br>
            <br>
            BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe
            the 6-year 'rule.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a
            catastrophic failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire
            can cause the vehicle to roll over. Ford just got slapped
            with a $1B+ liability charge for an old truck that had a
            blowout, rolled, and the cab squashed the elderly occupants.
            A couple decades ago Ford got slammed when some incorrect,
            improperly inflated Firestone tires--Ford and Firestone go
            WAY back--caused some fatal rollover accidents with some
            Explorers.<br>
            <br>
            My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires,
            it's time for new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old
            and, unless they're showing 'checking'--cracking--or other
            damage they should be good for at least a couple more years.
            Check your tire pressures regularly (at least once a month).<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <div>On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div>Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.  I
                  will</div>
                <div>need tires at some point, and that's good to know.</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>That said, my car is the spare car of the family,
                  and</div>
                <div>has had the same tires since 2019.  How many years</div>
                <div>can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used
                  to</div>
                <div>putt around town?  (My car has not quite 10,000
                  miles</div>
                <div>on it.)<br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Thanks,</div>
                <div>Shannah<br>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28, 2022
                  at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge &lt;<a
                    href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                    target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
                  0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                  rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div dir="auto">I have had the Michelin Defender LTX
                    on my pickup since fall 2020 and they are wearing
                    well, ride smooth and quiet.  I’ve used Michelins on
                    trucks since I worked in the tire dept at Sam’s in
                    college.  They always took the least amount of
                    weights to balance and had the least returns for
                    issues or to rebalance.  The manager at Costco said
                    that is all still true when I bought the last set. 
                    YMMV :)</div>
                  <div dir="auto"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div dir="auto">Best </div>
                  <div dir="auto">Ian</div>
                  <div><br>
                    <div class="gmail_quote">
                      <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28,
                        2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank"
                          rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
                        0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                        rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                        <div>
                          <div><font face="Segoe UI">shop content... I
                              drive my suburban into my shop</font></div>
                          <div> </div>
                          <div><font face="Segoe UI">time for tires...
                              always used Michelin for the last 20 years
                              with good service... Vehicle is 2008
                              Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town
                              ...no off road</font></div>
                          <div><font face="Segoe UI">occasional towing
                              my hobby truck to shows on 20' car hauler
                              (once or twice a year with load equalizing
                              hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my first
                              choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS</font></div>
                          <div><font face="Segoe UI">275/55-20.   The
                              reviews talk a lot about road noise and
                              rough ride..... My current Michelin
                              Defenders  (bought in Jan 2016 ride smooth
                              and wear well.. 76K miles on them so far)</font></div>
                          <div> </div>
                          <div><font face="Segoe UI">I just turned 75
                              and this might be my last set of tires  <img
                                alt="Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes"
                                src="cid:[email-masked]"
style="width:24px;max-width:100%;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0);border-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(255,255,255)"
                                moz-do-not-send="true" align="absMiddle"> …
                              so I'm looking for your thoughts on
                              Michelin or others afa mileage, ride,
                              noise etc.</font></div>
                          <div> </div>
                          <div><font face="Segoe UI">thanks</font></div>
                          <div><font face="Segoe UI">john</font></div>
                        </div>
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              <pre>_______________________________________________

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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________

</pre>
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From: Gene Garrison <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 08:54:52 -0700

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I'm glad you brought that up.  I've always wondered about changing oil.

So oil sitting in bottles on the shelf doesn't "go bad".  Right?

Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed?  I 
know it now has contaminants and such in it, but those aren't going to 
cause it to degrade, are they?

- GeneG

On 8/29/22 03:59, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
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    <p>I'm glad you brought that up.  I've always wondered about
      changing oil.</p>
    <p>So oil sitting in bottles on the shelf doesn't "go bad".  Right?</p>
    <p>Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be
      changed?  I know it now has contaminants and such in it, but those
      aren't going to cause it to degrade, are they?</p>
    <p>- GeneG<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/29/22 03:59, Jeff Scarbrough

</pre>
            </blockquote>
            <br>
          </div>

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 13:35:50 -0400 08/29/2022 01:35:57 PM, Serialize complete at 08/29/2022 01:35:57 PM

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Gene asks...
>Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed? 

Gene, because in an engine the oil is exposed to oxygen and other airborne 
contaminates.
In the (unopened) bottle, the oil isn't exposed to air. 

That is my understanding.

Moose

--=_alternative 0060AA11852588AD_=

<font size=2 face="sans-serif">Gene asks...</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">&gt;</font><font size=3>Then why does
oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed?&nbsp;</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3>Gene, because in an engine the oil is exposed to oxygen
and other airborne contaminates.</font>
<br><font size=3>In the (unopened) bottle, the oil isn't exposed to air.
&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3><br>
That is my understanding.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3>Moose</font>
<br>
<br>
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[email-masked]

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From: Ronnie Day <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 14:06:35 -0500

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I just replaced a set of Yokohomas on a '98 F-150  that had 2013 date
codes. They had plenty of tread but were beginning to deteriorate badly.
Since this is our third vehicle/Home Depot truck that sits most of the time
(maybe 1K miles/year) I bought the cheapest light truck tire (Corsa
brand-265/70-16s) I could get from Discount Tire. Neither Sams or Costco
had anything comparably priced. I put the same tires on our '02 Suburban
several months ago. It's used more than the F-150, maybe 4k-5k/year. Our
daily is a '15 Honda Odyssey, which I put upper range Yokohamas on.

Over the years we've lived on our 10 acres in the country critters chewing
on wires and hoses have been a problem. Driving a vehicle
regularly discourages them from moving in, as does scattering cotton balls
soaked in peppermint oil around the interior and under the hood. That said,
I think any road vehicle needs to be driven every couple of weeks,
preferably at moderate steady highway speeds for 15 to 30 minutes. This
brings all the fluids up to stable operating temps and burns off most of
the contaminants in the oil and trans fluids. Short, stop and go city trips
shorten component life considerably.

I change engine oil and filter and have the tires rotated every 5K, and
check the tires at least every couple of months and/or when temps change
considerably. Tire pressure varies to the tune of 2 PSI/10 degrees change
in air temp.

FWIW,
RD

On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 12:42 PM Gene Garrison <[email-masked]>
wrote:

>> not subject to temperature extremes and are only used 'around town' you =
can
>> failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire can cause the vehicle to r=
oll
>> over. Ford just got slapped with a $1B+ liability charge for an old truc=
k
>> that had a blowout, rolled, and the cab squashed the elderly occupants. =
A
>> inflated Firestone tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY back--caused some fa=
tal
>> My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it's time fo=
r
>> new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and, unless they're showi=
ng
>> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge <[email-masked]=
g>
>>> they are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.  I=E2=80=99ve used Michel=
ins on
>>> trucks since I worked in the tire dept at Sam=E2=80=99s in college.  Th=
ey always
>>> took the least amount of weights to balance and had the least returns f=
or
>>> issues or to rebalance.  The manager at Costco said that is all still t=
rue
>>>> service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...n=
o off
>>>> twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my =
first
>>>> ride..... My current Michelin Defenders  (bought in Jan 2016 ride smoo=
th
>>>> and wear well.. 76K miles on them so far)
>>>>
>>>> Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes] =E2=80=A6 so I'm looking for your tho=
ughts on
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2@mcfetridge.=
org
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/a=
rchive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspi=
[email-masked]
chive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gene@=
garrison-grafixx.com
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

--000000000000924a9005e765f824
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<div dir=3D"ltr">I just replaced a set of Yokohomas on a &#39;98 F-150=C2=
=A0 that had 2013 date codes. They had plenty of tread but were beginning t=
o deteriorate=C2=A0badly. Since this is our third vehicle/Home Depot truck =
that sits most of the time (maybe 1K miles/year) I bought the cheapest ligh=
t truck tire (Corsa brand-265/70-16s) I could get from Discount Tire. Neith=
er Sams or Costco had anything comparably priced. I put the same tires on o=
ur &#39;02 Suburban several months ago. It&#39;s used more than the F-150, =
maybe 4k-5k/year. Our daily is a &#39;15 Honda Odyssey, which I put upper r=
ange Yokohamas on.=C2=A0<br><br>Over the years we&#39;ve lived on our 10 ac=
res in the country critters chewing on wires and hoses have been a problem.=
 Driving a vehicle regularly=C2=A0discourages them from moving in, as does =
scattering cotton balls soaked in peppermint oil around the=C2=A0interior a=
nd=C2=A0under the hood. That said, I think any road vehicle needs to be dri=
ven every couple of weeks, preferably at moderate steady highway speeds for=
 15 to 30 minutes. This brings all the fluids up to stable operating temps =
and burns off most of the contaminants=C2=A0in the oil and trans fluids. Sh=
ort, stop and go city trips shorten component life considerably.<div><br></=
div><div>I change engine oil and filter and have the tires rotated every 5K=
, and check the tires at least every couple of months and/or when temps=C2=
=A0change considerably. Tire pressure varies to the tune of 2 PSI/10 degree=
s=C2=A0change in air temp.<br><br>FWIW,</div><div>RD</div></div><br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 29, 2=
022 at 12:42 PM Gene Garrison &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
om">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
    <p>I&#39;m glad you brought that up.=C2=A0 I&#39;ve always wondered abo=
ut
      changing oil.</p>
    <p>So oil sitting in bottles on the shelf doesn&#39;t &quot;go bad&quot=
;.=C2=A0 Right?</p>
    <p>Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be
      changed?=C2=A0 I know it now has contaminants and such in it, but tho=
se
      aren&#39;t going to cause it to degrade, are they?</p>
    <p>- GeneG<br>
    </p>
    <div>On 8/29/22 03:59, Jeff Scarbrough
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      <div dir=3D"auto">I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had
        less than 2500 miles on them because they were ten years old and
        definitely showing it.=C2=A0=C2=A0
        <div dir=3D"auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir=3D"auto">I consider tires to be like oil - they should be
          changed at a mileage or time interval, whichever comes first.=C2=
=A0
          It&#39;s just something you have to budget for.</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
        <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04
          Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div> re: &quot;How many years can a set of tires go ...&quot;<br=
            <br>
            Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained.
            Some--often people who make and sell tires--insist six years
            is the limit, regardless of mileage, and if the tires are
            constantly exposed to extreme weather and mileage that&#39;s no=
t
            unreasonable. OTOH, if the tires are kept in a garage not
            subject to temperature extremes and are only used &#39;around
            town&#39; you can usually go more, 7 or 8 years wouldn&#39;t be=
 too
            risky. At any rate, going beyond 10 years is pushing your
            luck.<br>
            <br>
            BUT ... for an SUV I&#39;d be more cautious and probably observ=
e
            the 6-year &#39;rule.&#39; SUVs and other trucks are top heavy =
and a
            catastrophic failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire
            can cause the vehicle to roll over. Ford just got slapped
            with a $1B+ liability charge for an old truck that had a
            blowout, rolled, and the cab squashed the elderly occupants.
            A couple decades ago Ford got slammed when some incorrect,
            improperly inflated Firestone tires--Ford and Firestone go
            WAY back--caused some fatal rollover accidents with some
            Explorers.<br>
            <br>
            My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires,
            it&#39;s time for new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) ol=
d
            and, unless they&#39;re showing &#39;checking&#39;--cracking--o=
r other
            damage they should be good for at least a couple more years.
            Check your tire pressures regularly (at least once a month).<br=
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <div>On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type=3D"cite">
              <div dir=3D"ltr">
                <div>Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.=C2=A0 I
                  will</div>
                <div>need tires at some point, and that&#39;s good to know.=
</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>That said, my car is the spare car of the family,
                  and</div>
                <div>has had the same tires since 2019.=C2=A0 How many year=
s</div>
                <div>can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used
                  to</div>
                <div>putt around town?=C2=A0 (My car has not quite 10,000
                  miles</div>
                <div>on it.)<br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Thanks,</div>
                <div>Shannah<br>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
                <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28, 2022
                  at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">shop-talk2@mcfetridg=
e.org</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div dir=3D"auto">I have had the Michelin Defender LTX
                    on my pickup since fall 2020 and they are wearing
                    well, ride smooth and quiet.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ve used Mi=
chelins on
                    trucks since I worked in the tire dept at Sam=E2=80=99s=
 in
                    college.=C2=A0 They always took the least amount of
                    weights to balance and had the least returns for
                    issues or to rebalance.=C2=A0 The manager at Costco sai=
d
                    that is all still true when I bought the last set.=C2=
=A0
                    YMMV :)</div>
                  <div dir=3D"auto"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div dir=3D"auto">Best=C2=A0</div>
                  <div dir=3D"auto">Ian</div>
                  <div><br>
                    <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
                      <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28,
                        2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:j=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
;
                        wrote:<br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                        <div>
                          <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">shop content... I
                              drive my suburban into my shop</font></div>
                          <div>=C2=A0</div>
                          <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">time for tires...
                              always used Michelin for the last 20 years
                              with good service... Vehicle is 2008
                              Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town
                              ...no off road</font></div>
                          <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">occasional towing
                              my hobby truck to shows on 20&#39; car hauler
                              (once or twice a year with load equalizing
                              hitch...)=C2=A0 Looking at reviews on my firs=
t
                              choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS</font></div>
                          <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">275/55-20.=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 The
                              reviews talk a lot about road noise and
                              rough ride..... My current Michelin
                              Defenders=C2=A0 (bought in Jan 2016 ride smoo=
th
                              and wear well.. 76K miles on them so far)</fo=
nt></div>
                          <div>=C2=A0</div>
                          <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">I just turned 75
                              and this might be my last set of tires=C2=A0=
=C2=A0<img alt=3D"Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes" style=3D"width: 24px; ma=
x-width: 100%; background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); border-color: rgb(255, 2=
55, 255); color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" align=3D"absMiddle">=C2=A0=E2=80=A6
                              so I&#39;m looking for your thoughts on
                              Michelin or others afa mileage, ride,
                              noise etc.</font></div>
                          <div>=C2=A0</div>
                          <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">thanks</font></div>
                          <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">john</font></div>
                        </div>
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alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox=
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      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <pre>_______________________________________________

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alk/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mail=
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_______________________________________________<br>
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et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
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--000000000000924a9005e765f824--

--===============3376268105540844739==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

[email-masked]

--===============3376268105540844739==--

---

From: PJ McGarvey <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 19:43:40 +0000

--_004_MN2PR07MB718365C3DF3FE7DCD14D7F029A769MN2PR07MB7183namp_
	boundary="_000_MN2PR07MB718365C3DF3FE7DCD14D7F029A769MN2PR07MB7183namp_"

--_000_MN2PR07MB718365C3DF3FE7DCD14D7F029A769MN2PR07MB7183namp_
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Side note: Recently bought a Ford Cobra 8.8 diff that was a NOS piece from =
a closed dealership. Date tag was 1997. I opened it up and the diff oil had=
 turned to white paste, it smelled awful but had a definite gear oil aroma.=
 These had the Trak-Lok "limited slip" so it's possible the modifier additi=
ve had separated, but I checked with a few experts and all agreed it was sa=
fe to run after cleaning it out.

So after 25 years, I can confirm that oil does "go bad".

________________________________
From: Shop-talk <[email-masked]> on behalf of Gene Garris=
on <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2022 11:54 AM
To: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question

Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed?  I kn=
ow it now has contaminants and such in it, but those aren't going to cause =
it to degrade, are they?

- GeneG

On 8/29/22 03:59, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had less than 2500 miles on the=
m because they were ten years old and definitely showing it.

I consider tires to be like oil - they should be changed at a mileage or ti=
me interval, whichever comes first.  It's just something you have to budget=
 for.

[email-masked]>> wrote:

Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained. Some--often people who=
 make and sell tires--insist six years is the limit, regardless of mileage,=
 and if the tires are constantly exposed to extreme weather and mileage tha=
t's not unreasonable. OTOH, if the tires are kept in a garage not subject t=
o temperature extremes and are only used 'around town' you can usually go m=
ore, 7 or 8 years wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, going beyond 10 years=
 is pushing your luck.

BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe the 6-year 'ru=
le.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a catastrophic failure--i.e. a=
 blowout--esp. on a front tire can cause the vehicle to roll over. Ford jus=
t got slapped with a $1B+ liability charge for an old truck that had a blow=
out, rolled, and the cab squashed the elderly occupants. A couple decades a=
go Ford got slammed when some incorrect, improperly inflated Firestone tire=
s--Ford and Firestone go WAY back--caused some fatal rollover accidents wit=
h some Explorers.

My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it's time for n=
ew. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and, unless they're showing '=
checking'--cracking--or other damage they should be good for at least a cou=
ple more years. Check your tire pressures regularly (at least once a month)=
.

Thanks,
Shannah

On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge <[email-masked]<m=
ailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall 2020 and they =
are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.  I=92ve used Michelins on trucks s=
ince I worked in the tire dept at Sam=92s in college.  They always took the=
 least amount of weights to balance and had the least returns for issues or=
 to rebalance.  The manager at Costco said that is all still true when I bo=
ught the last set.  YMMV :)

Best
Ian

@att.net>> wrote:

time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20 years with good serv=
ice... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no off roa=
d
occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car hauler (once or twice =
a year with load equalizing hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my first choic=
e Michelin Defender LTX/MS
275/55-20.   The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough ride..... My=
 current Michelin Defenders  (bought in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear well.=
. 76K miles on them so far)

I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires  [Grinning Face wit=
h Smiling Eyes]  =85 so I'm looking for your thoughts on Michelin or others=
 afa mileage, ride, noise etc.

thanks
john

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive

rrison-grafixx.com

--_000_MN2PR07MB718365C3DF3FE7DCD14D7F029A769MN2PR07MB7183namp_
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
Side note: Recently bought a Ford Cobra 8.8 diff that was a NOS piece from =
a closed dealership. Date tag was 1997. I opened it up and the diff oil had=
 turned to white paste, it smelled awful but had a definite gear oil aroma.=
 These had the Trak-Lok &quot;limited
 slip&quot; so it's possible the modifier additive had separated, but I che=
cked with a few experts and all agreed it was safe to run after cleaning it=
 out.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
So after 25 years, I can confirm that oil does &quot;go bad&quot;.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Shop-talk &lt;shop-ta=
[email-masked]&gt; on behalf of Gene Garrison &lt;gene@garrison-=
grafixx.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 29, 2022 11:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> [email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<p>I'm glad you brought that up.&nbsp; I've always wondered about changing =
oil.</p>
<p>So oil sitting in bottles on the shelf doesn't &quot;go bad&quot;.&nbsp;=
 Right?</p>
<p>Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed?&nb=
sp; I know it now has contaminants and such in it, but those aren't going t=
o cause it to degrade, are they?</p>
<p>- GeneG<br>
</p>
<div class=3D"x_moz-cite-prefix">On 8/29/22 03:59, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:<b=
r>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"auto">I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had less than=
 2500 miles on them because they were ten years old and definitely showing =
it.&nbsp;&nbsp;
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I consider tires to be like oil - they should be changed =
at a mileage or time interval, whichever comes first.&nbsp; It's just somet=
hing you have to budget for.</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04 Bob Spi=
dell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-fr=
eetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0
          .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div>re: &quot;How many years can a set of tires go ...&quot;<br>
<br>
Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained. Some--often people who=
 make and sell tires--insist six years is the limit, regardless of mileage,=
 and if the tires are constantly exposed to extreme weather and mileage tha=
t's not unreasonable. OTOH, if the
 tires are kept in a garage not subject to temperature extremes and are onl=
y used 'around town' you can usually go more, 7 or 8 years wouldn't be too =
risky. At any rate, going beyond 10 years is pushing your luck.<br>
<br>
BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe the 6-year 'ru=
le.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a catastrophic failure--i.e. a=
 blowout--esp. on a front tire can cause the vehicle to roll over. Ford jus=
t got slapped with a $1B+ liability
 charge for an old truck that had a blowout, rolled, and the cab squashed t=
he elderly occupants. A couple decades ago Ford got slammed when some incor=
rect, improperly inflated Firestone tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY back--=
caused some fatal rollover accidents
 with some Explorers.<br>
<br>
My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it's time for n=
ew. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and, unless they're showing '=
checking'--cracking--or other damage they should be good for at least a cou=
ple more years. Check your tire
 pressures regularly (at least once a month).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.&nbsp; I will</div>
<div>need tires at some point, and that's good to know.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That said, my car is the spare car of the family, and</div>
<div>has had the same tires since 2019.&nbsp; How many years</div>
<div>can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used to</div>
<div>putt around town?&nbsp; (My car has not quite 10,000 miles</div>
<div>on it.)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Shannah<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian=
 McFetridge &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk" rel=3D"noreferrer" class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-freetext">shop-talk2@mcfetri=
dge.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px
                  0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid
                  rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"auto">I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since f=
all 2020 and they are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.&nbsp; I=92ve use=
d Michelins on trucks since I worked in the tire dept at Sam=92s in college=
.&nbsp; They always took the least amount of weights
 to balance and had the least returns for issues or to rebalance.&nbsp; The=
 manager at Costco said that is all still true when I bought the last set.&=
nbsp; YMMV :)</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Best&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Ian</div>
<div><br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM joh=
n niolon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"no=
referrer" class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px
                        0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid
                        rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">shop content... I drive my suburban into my sh=
op</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">time for tires... always used Michelin for the=
 last 20 years with good service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% =
highway or town ...no off road</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 2=
0' car hauler (once or twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)&nbsp; Lo=
oking at reviews on my first choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">275/55-20.&nbsp;&nbsp; The reviews talk a lot =
about road noise and rough ride..... My current Michelin Defenders&nbsp; (b=
ought in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear well.. 76K miles on them so far)</fo=
nt></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">I just turned 75 and this might be my last set=
 of tires&nbsp;&nbsp;<img alt=3D"Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes" align=3D"=
absMiddle" style=3D"width:24px; max-width:100%; background-color:rgba(0,0,0=
,0); border-color:rgb(255,255,255); color:rgb(255,255,255)" data-outlook-tr=
ace=3D"F:0|T:1" src=3D"cid:[email-masked]">&nbsp;=85
 so I'm looking for your thoughts on Michelin or others afa mileage, ride, =
noise etc.</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">thanks</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">john</font></div>
</div>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Eric Russell <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 16:52:21 -0400

--===============5335684511974360125==

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More than just oxygen, the oil is also exposed to the byproducts of
combustion - CO, CO2, H2O and more. These byproducts can combine to form
acidic contaminants. Fresh oil has additives to combat this but they can't
do it forever.

EjR

On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 4:41 PM <[email-masked]> wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

-- 
Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

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<div dir=3D"ltr">More than just oxygen, the oil is also exposed to the bypr=
oducts of combustion - CO, CO2, H2O and more. These byproducts can combine =
to form acidic contaminants. Fresh oil has additives to combat this but the=
y can&#39;t do it forever.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>EjR=C2=A0</div></div><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, =
Aug 29, 2022 at 4:41 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">eric@megag=
eek.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">Gene asks...</font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt;</font><font size=3D"3">Then w=
hy does
oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed?=C2=A0</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"3">Gene, because in an engine the oil is exposed to oxyge=
n
and other airborne contaminates.</font>
<br><font size=3D"3">In the (unopened) bottle, the oil isn&#39;t exposed to=
 air.
=C2=A0</font>
<br><font size=3D"3"><br>
That is my understanding.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"3">Moose</font>
<br>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://auto=
x.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Eric Russell<div>Mebane, NC</di=
v></div></div>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 15:56:33 -0500

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I Don lt know I=E2=80=99d it make a difference but it is also in contact wit=
h metals that could possibly leach onto the oil.=20

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne=20
We support Habitat for Humanity

On Aug 29, 2022, at 3:54 PM, [email-masked] wrote:

=EF=BB=BFGene asks...=20
>Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed? =20

Gene, because in an engine the oil is exposed to oxygen and other airborne c=
ontaminates.=20
In the (unopened) bottle, the oil isn't exposed to air.  =20

That is my understanding.=20

Moose=20

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve

[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">I Don lt know I=E2=80=99d it make a differe=
nce but it is also in contact with metals that could possibly leach onto the=
 oil.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>Peace,</div><div>Pat</div><div><br><div dir=3D=
"ltr">Pat Horne&nbsp;<div>We support Habitat for Humanity</div><div><br></di=
v></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Aug 29, 2022, at 3:54 PM, [email-masked] w=
rote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-s=
erif">Gene asks...</font>
<br><font size=3D"2" face=3D"sans-serif">&gt;</font><font size=3D"3">Then wh=
y does
oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed?&nbsp;</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"3">Gene, because in an engine the oil is exposed to oxygen=

and other airborne contaminates.</font>
<br><font size=3D"3">In the (unopened) bottle, the oil isn't exposed to air.=

&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3D"3"><br>
That is my understanding.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D"3">Moose</font>
<br>
<br><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span></=
span><br><span>[email-masked]</span><br><span>Donate: http://www.t=
eam.net/donate.html</span><br><span>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.96</=
span><br><span>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox=
.team.net/archive</span><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</span><br><=
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Tom Coradeschi <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 18:18:41 -0400

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The contaminants will cause the oil to degrade, hence the need to change it o=
n either time or mileage, per the OEM spec (whichever comes first).

Tom Coradeschi
[email-masked]

> On Aug 29, 2022, at 1:44 PM, Gene Garrison <[email-masked]> wro=
te:
> =EF=BB=BF
> Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed?  I k=
now it now has contaminants and such in it, but those aren't going to cause i=
t to degrade, are they?
>> I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had less than 2500 miles on t=
hem because they were ten years old and definitely showing it. =20
>>=20
>> I consider tires to be like oil - they should be changed at a mileage or t=
ime interval, whichever comes first.  It's just something you have to budget=
 for.
>>> Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained. Some--often people w=
ho make and sell tires--insist six years is the limit, regardless of mileage=
, and if the tires are constantly exposed to extreme weather and mileage tha=
t's not unreasonable. OTOH, if the tires are kept in a garage not subject to=
 temperature extremes and are only used 'around town' you can usually go mor=
e, 7 or 8 years wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, going beyond 10 years is=
 pushing your luck.
>>>=20
>>> BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe the 6-year '=
rule.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a catastrophic failure--i.e. a=
 blowout--esp. on a front tire can cause the vehicle to roll over. Ford just=
 got slapped with a $1B+ liability charge for an old truck that had a blowou=
t, rolled, and the cab squashed the elderly occupants. A couple decades ago =
Ford got slammed when some incorrect, improperly inflated Firestone tires--Fo=
rd and Firestone go WAY back--caused some fatal rollover accidents with some=
 Explorers.
>>> My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it's time fo=
r new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and, unless they're showing=
 'checking'--cracking--or other damage they should be good for at least a co=
uple more years. Check your tire pressures regularly (at least once a month)=
.
>>>> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge <[email-masked]=
rg> wrote:
>>>>> I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall 2020 and t=
hey are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.  I=E2=80=99ve used Michelins on=
 trucks since I worked in the tire dept at Sam=E2=80=99s in college.  They a=
lways took the least amount of weights to balance and had the least returns f=
or issues or to rebalance.  The manager at Costco said that is all still tru=
e when I bought the last set.  YMMV :)
>>>>> Best=20
>>>>>> time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20 years with goo=
d service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no of=
f road
>>>>>> occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car hauler (once or t=
wice a year with load equalizing hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my first c=
hoice Michelin Defender LTX/MS
>>>>>> 275/55-20.   The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough ride..=
... My current Michelin Defenders  (bought in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear w=
ell.. 76K miles on them so far)
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires   =E2=80=A6 s=
o I'm looking for your thoughts on Michelin or others afa mileage, ride, noi=
se etc.
>>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.ne=
t/archive
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/s=
[email-masked]
>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net=
/archive
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/sh=
[email-masked]
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/=
archive
>>>>=20
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bsp=
[email-masked]
rchive
>>>=20
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fish=
[email-masked]
chive
garrison-grafixx.com
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc=
hive
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora=
@icloud.com

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">The contaminants will cause the oil to degr=
ade, hence the need to change it on either time or mileage, per the OEM spec=
 (whichever comes first).<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Tom Coradeschi<div>Tjcora@=
icloud.com</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Aug 2=
9, 2022, at 1:44 PM, Gene Garrison &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<=
br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF=

 =20
    <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-8"=
 =20
 =20
    <p>I'm glad you brought that up.&nbsp; I've always wondered about
      changing oil.</p>
    <p>So oil sitting in bottles on the shelf doesn't "go bad".&nbsp; Right?=
</p>
    <p>Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be
      changed?&nbsp; I know it now has contaminants and such in it, but thos=
e
      aren't going to cause it to degrade, are they?</p>
    <p>- GeneG<br>
    </p>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 8/29/22 03:59, Jeff Scarbrough
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:CAO8Q7CPbvk37whpm9YV=3DDktmutt6NBn=
[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-=
8">
      <div dir=3D"auto">I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had
        less than 2500 miles on them because they were ten years old and
        definitely showing it.&nbsp;&nbsp;
        <div dir=3D"auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir=3D"auto">I consider tires to be like oil - they should be
          changed at a mileage or time interval, whichever comes first.&nbsp=
;
          It's just something you have to budget for.</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
        <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04
          Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not=
-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div> re: "How many years can a set of tires go ..."<br>
            <br>
            Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained.
            Some--often people who make and sell tires--insist six years
            is the limit, regardless of mileage, and if the tires are
            constantly exposed to extreme weather and mileage that's not
            unreasonable. OTOH, if the tires are kept in a garage not
            subject to temperature extremes and are only used 'around
            town' you can usually go more, 7 or 8 years wouldn't be too
            risky. At any rate, going beyond 10 years is pushing your
            luck.<br>
            <br>
            BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe
            the 6-year 'rule.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a
            catastrophic failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire
            can cause the vehicle to roll over. Ford just got slapped
            with a $1B+ liability charge for an old truck that had a
            blowout, rolled, and the cab squashed the elderly occupants.
            A couple decades ago Ford got slammed when some incorrect,
            improperly inflated Firestone tires--Ford and Firestone go
            WAY back--caused some fatal rollover accidents with some
            Explorers.<br>
            <br>
            My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires,
            it's time for new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old
            and, unless they're showing 'checking'--cracking--or other
            damage they should be good for at least a couple more years.
            Check your tire pressures regularly (at least once a month).<br>=

            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <div>On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type=3D"cite">
              <div dir=3D"ltr">
                <div>Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.&nbsp; I
                  will</div>
                <div>need tires at some point, and that's good to know.</div=
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>That said, my car is the spare car of the family,
                  and</div>
                <div>has had the same tires since 2019.&nbsp; How many years=
</div>
                <div>can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used
                  to</div>
                <div>putt around town?&nbsp; (My car has not quite 10,000
                  miles</div>
                <div>on it.)<br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Thanks,</div>
                <div>Shannah<br>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
                <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28, 2022
                  at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk2=
@mcfetridge.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer" moz-do-not-send=3D"tru=
e" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px
                  0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                  rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div dir=3D"auto">I have had the Michelin Defender LTX
                    on my pickup since fall 2020 and they are wearing
                    well, ride smooth and quiet.&nbsp; I=E2=80=99ve used Mic=
helins on
                    trucks since I worked in the tire dept at Sam=E2=80=99s i=
n
                    college.&nbsp; They always took the least amount of
                    weights to balance and had the least returns for
                    issues or to rebalance.&nbsp; The manager at Costco said=

                    that is all still true when I bought the last set.&nbsp;=

                    YMMV :)</div>
                  <div dir=3D"auto"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div dir=3D"auto">Best&nbsp;</div>
                  <div dir=3D"auto">Ian</div>
                  <div><br>
                    <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
                      <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28,
                        2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jn=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer" moz-do-not-send=3D"true"=
 class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px
                        0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                        rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                        <div>
                          <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">shop content... I
                              drive my suburban into my shop</font></div>
                          <div>&nbsp;</div>
                          <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">time for tires...
                              always used Michelin for the last 20 years
                              with good service... Vehicle is 2008
                              Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town
                              ...no off road</font></div>
                          <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">occasional towing
                              my hobby truck to shows on 20' car hauler
                              (once or twice a year with load equalizing
                              hitch...)&nbsp; Looking at reviews on my first=

                              choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS</font></div>
                          <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">275/55-20.&nbsp;&nbsp=
; The
                              reviews talk a lot about road noise and
                              rough ride..... My current Michelin
                              Defenders&nbsp; (bought in Jan 2016 ride smoot=
h
                              and wear well.. 76K miles on them so far)</fon=
t></div>
                          <div>&nbsp;</div>
                          <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">I just turned 75
                              and this might be my last set of tires&nbsp;&n=
bsp;<img alt=3D"Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes" src=3D"cid:part1.BCNdxLKL.U=
[email-masked]" style=3D"width:24px;max-width:100%;background-color:rgb=
a(0,0,0,0);border-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(255,255,255)" moz-do-not-=
send=3D"true" align=3D"absMiddle" data-unique-identifier=3D"">&nbsp;=E2=80=A6=

                              so I'm looking for your thoughts on
                              Michelin or others afa mileage, ride,
                              noise etc.</font></div>
                          <div>&nbsp;</div>
                          <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">thanks</font></div>
                          <div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">john</font></div>
                        </div>
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[email-masked]

--===============6546963881600777709==--

---

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 19:59:18 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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I inherited a '96 Ranger and 2000 Lincoln LS; the Ranger gets farm 
duties and the Lincoln is the designated grocery-getter. The Great State 
of California is kind enough to send me a reminder every two years to 
change their oil, top them up with fresh gas--sometimes I throw a bottle 
of Techron in the tank--clean/replace air filters and get them smogged. 
Oh, and send the state a check for their helpfulness.

Costco now sells 5W-30 full synthetic in 5qt. containers cheaper than 
they used to sell mineral oils, and they ship for free! The Ranger, 
Lincoln, Honda ATV, zero-turn mower, edger, rototiller and squirrel 
gasser all get the syn (eventually, when some old 10W-30 gets used up). 
The old Ford tractors (2) get the cheapest 10W-40 I can find with free 
shipping and the Healeys get Valvoline 20W-50 Racing Oil loaded with 
ZDDP (stocking up before the State bans it; I got about a 15-year supply 
plus filters). The Mustang GT/Bullitt gets 'free oil changes for life' 
from the dealer--good thing, the Coyote takes 10qts!--and I have a 
gallon or two of Ford's ubiquitous 5W-20  Semi-Syn for top-ups.  My 
'collection' sits on the shelf for a while; I have to remember to shake 
the bottles before using as some of the additives will settle to the bottom.

The biggest PITA? Properly disposing of the used oil.

On 8/29/2022 12:43 PM, PJ McGarvey wrote:
> Side note: Recently bought a Ford Cobra 8.8 diff that was a NOS piece 
> from a closed dealership. Date tag was 1997. I opened it up and the 
> diff oil had turned to white paste, it smelled awful but had a 
> definite gear oil aroma. These had the Trak-Lok "limited slip" so it's 
> possible the modifier additive had separated, but I checked with a few 
> experts and all agreed it was safe to run after cleaning it out.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Shop-talk <[email-masked]> on behalf of Gene 
> Garrison <[email-masked]>
> *Sent:* Monday, August 29, 2022 11:54 AM
> *To:* [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
> *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question
>
> I know it now has contaminants and such in it, but those aren't going 
> to cause it to degrade, are they?
>
> - GeneG
>
>> or time interval, whichever comes first.  It's just something you 
>> have to budget for.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04 Bob Spidell <[email-masked] 
>>
>>     tires are kept in a garage not subject to temperature extremes
>>     and are only used 'around town' you can usually go more, 7 or 8
>>     years wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, going beyond 10 years
>>     is pushing your luck.
>>
>>>         weights to balance and had the least returns for issues or
>>>         to rebalance.  The manager at Costco said that is all still
>>>         true when I bought the last set.  YMMV :)
>>>
>>>         Best
>>>         Ian
>>>
>>>         On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon <[email-masked]
>>>
>>>             Michelin Defender LTX/MS
>>>             rough ride..... My current Michelin Defenders  (bought
>>>             in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear well.. 76K miles on
>>>             them so far)
>>>             Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes … so I'm looking for
>>>             your thoughts on Michelin or others afa mileage, ride,
>>>             noise etc.
>>>             thanks
>>>             john
>>>

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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    I inherited a '96 Ranger and 2000 Lincoln LS; the Ranger gets farm
    duties and the Lincoln is the designated grocery-getter. The Great
    State of California is kind enough to send me a reminder every two
    years to change their oil, top them up with fresh gas--sometimes I
    throw a bottle of Techron in the tank--clean/replace air filters and
    get them smogged. Oh, and send the state a check for their
    helpfulness. <br>
    <br>
    Costco now sells 5W-30 full synthetic in 5qt. containers cheaper
    than they used to sell mineral oils, and they ship for free! The
    Ranger, Lincoln, Honda ATV, zero-turn mower, edger, rototiller and
    squirrel gasser all get the syn (eventually, when some old 10W-30
    gets used up). The old Ford tractors (2) get the cheapest 10W-40 I
    can find with free shipping and the Healeys get Valvoline 20W-50
    Racing Oil loaded with ZDDP (stocking up before the State bans it; I
    got about a 15-year supply plus filters). The Mustang GT/Bullitt
    gets 'free oil changes for life' from the dealer--good thing, the
    Coyote takes 10qts!--and I have a gallon or two of Ford's ubiquitous
    5W-20  Semi-Syn for top-ups.  My 'collection' sits on the shelf for
    a while; I have to remember to shake the bottles before using as
    some of the additives will settle to the bottom.<br>
    <br>
    The biggest PITA? Properly disposing of the used oil.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/29/2022 12:43 PM, PJ McGarvey
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <style type="text/css" style="display:none;">P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}</style>
      <div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
        font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="elementToProof">
        Side note: Recently bought a Ford Cobra 8.8 diff that was a NOS
        piece from a closed dealership. Date tag was 1997. I opened it
        up and the diff oil had turned to white paste, it smelled awful
        but had a definite gear oil aroma. These had the Trak-Lok
        "limited slip" so it's possible the modifier additive had
        separated, but I checked with a few experts and all agreed it
        was safe to run after cleaning it out. </div>
      <div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
        font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="elementToProof">
        <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
        font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="elementToProof">
        So after 25 years, I can confirm that oil does "go bad".</div>
      <div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
        font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="elementToProof">
        <br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
        font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="elementToProof">
        <br>
      </div>
      <hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
      <div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
          face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
          Shop-talk <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> on behalf
          of Gene Garrison <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><br>
          <b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 29, 2022 11:54 AM<br>
          <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><br>
          <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question</font>
        <div> </div>
      </div>
      <div>
        <p>I'm glad you brought that up.  I've always wondered about
          changing oil.</p>
        <p>So oil sitting in bottles on the shelf doesn't "go bad". 
          Right?</p>
        <p>Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be
          changed?  I know it now has contaminants and such in it, but
          those aren't going to cause it to degrade, are they?</p>
        <p>- GeneG<br>
        </p>
        <div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 8/29/22 03:59, Jeff Scarbrough
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <div dir="auto">I just replaced a set of trailer tires that
            had less than 2500 miles on them because they were ten years
            old and definitely showing it.  
            <div dir="auto"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="auto">I consider tires to be like oil - they
              should be changed at a mileage or time interval, whichever
              comes first.  It's just something you have to budget for.</div>
          </div>
          <br>
          <div class="x_gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 29, 2022,
              02:04 Bob Spidell &lt;<a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
                moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;
              border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
              <div>re: "How many years can a set of tires go ..."<br>
                <br>
                Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained.
                Some--often people who make and sell tires--insist six
                years is the limit, regardless of mileage, and if the
                tires are constantly exposed to extreme weather and
                mileage that's not unreasonable. OTOH, if the tires are
                kept in a garage not subject to temperature extremes and
                are only used 'around town' you can usually go more, 7
                or 8 years wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, going
                beyond 10 years is pushing your luck.<br>
                <br>
                BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably
                observe the 6-year 'rule.' SUVs and other trucks are top
                heavy and a catastrophic failure--i.e. a blowout--esp.
                on a front tire can cause the vehicle to roll over. Ford
                just got slapped with a $1B+ liability charge for an old
                truck that had a blowout, rolled, and the cab squashed
                the elderly occupants. A couple decades ago Ford got
                slammed when some incorrect, improperly inflated
                Firestone tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY back--caused
                some fatal rollover accidents with some Explorers.<br>
                <br>
                My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my
                tires, it's time for new. Your tires are only three
                years (+/-) old and, unless they're showing
                'checking'--cracking--or other damage they should be
                good for at least a couple more years. Check your tire
                pressures regularly (at least once a month).<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <div>On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div>Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.  I
                      will</div>
                    <div>need tires at some point, and that's good to
                      know.</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>That said, my car is the spare car of the
                      family, and</div>
                    <div>has had the same tires since 2019.  How many
                      years</div>
                    <div>can a set of tires go if they are just mostly
                      used to</div>
                    <div>putt around town?  (My car has not quite 10,000
                      miles</div>
                    <div>on it.)<br>
                    </div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>Thanks,</div>
                    <div>Shannah<br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <div class="x_gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 28,
                      2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext
                        moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                      wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
                      0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid
                      rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
                      <div dir="auto">I have had the Michelin Defender
                        LTX on my pickup since fall 2020 and they are
                        wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.  I’ve used
                        Michelins on trucks since I worked in the tire
                        dept at Sam’s in college.  They always took the
                        least amount of weights to balance and had the
                        least returns for issues or to rebalance.  The
                        manager at Costco said that is all still true
                        when I bought the last set.  YMMV :)</div>
                      <div dir="auto"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="auto">Best </div>
                      <div dir="auto">Ian</div>
                      <div><br>
                        <div class="x_gmail_quote">
                          <div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Sun,
                            Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon &lt;<a
                              href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                              target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                              class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext
                              moz-txt-link-freetext"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                            wrote:<br>
                          </div>
                          <blockquote class="x_gmail_quote"
                            style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
                            border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);
                            padding-left:1ex">
                            <div>
                              <div><font face="Segoe UI">shop content...
                                  I drive my suburban into my shop</font></div>
                              <div> </div>
                              <div><font face="Segoe UI">time for
                                  tires... always used Michelin for the
                                  last 20 years with good service...
                                  Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95%
                                  highway or town ...no off road</font></div>
                              <div><font face="Segoe UI">occasional
                                  towing my hobby truck to shows on 20'
                                  car hauler (once or twice a year with
                                  load equalizing hitch...)  Looking at
                                  reviews on my first choice Michelin
                                  Defender LTX/MS</font></div>
                              <div><font face="Segoe UI">275/55-20.  
                                  The reviews talk a lot about road
                                  noise and rough ride..... My current
                                  Michelin Defenders  (bought in Jan
                                  2016 ride smooth and wear well.. 76K
                                  miles on them so far)</font></div>
                              <div> </div>
                              <div><font face="Segoe UI">I just turned
                                  75 and this might be my last set of
                                  tires  <img alt="Grinning Face with
                                    Smiling Eyes" style="width:24px;
                                    max-width:100%;
                                    background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0);
                                    border-color:rgb(255,255,255);
                                    color:rgb(255,255,255)"
                                    data-outlook-trace="F:0|T:1"
                                    src="cid:[email-masked]"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    align="absMiddle"> … so I'm looking
                                  for your thoughts on Michelin or
                                  others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.</font></div>
                              <div> </div>
                              <div><font face="Segoe UI">thanks</font></div>
                              <div><font face="Segoe UI">john</font></div>
                            </div>
                            <br>
                          </blockquote>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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---

From: old dirtbeard <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 20:02:18 -0700

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I change oil at 5K miles or at 12 months and use synthetic oil. Probably
overkill for many of my engines, however.

Regarding oil setting in an unused engine, I believe that synthetic oil
setting in an unused engine probably would not noticeably deteriorate for
periods longer than 12 months.

I know many folks who put synthetic oil in air-cooled motorcycles and only
ride a few hundred miles a year. When draining that oil, it looks pretty
much the same as it did when it was poured into the engine. I believe that
it probably could be used for longer than 12 months in that specific
scenario.

I think the 12 month change interval for low mileage engines is mostly
important for engines that routinely see short trips, do not reach
operating temperatures,and may have condensation build-up in the sump. It
probably also is more important for non-sealed crankcases in humid
environments where moisture from humidity could condense.

Moisture also is of course a byproduct of combustion, and if the engine
does not reach and run at normal operating temperatures for sustained
periods of time, moisture is likely to remain in the crankcase and
contaminate the oil.

I do not believe, however, that simply having oil in the sealed sump of an
unused engine would need to be changed every 12 months from being in
contact with the metal or other materials inside the engine.

On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 6:56 PM Tom Coradeschi <[email-masked]> wrote:

> The contaminants will cause the oil to degrade, hence the need to change
> it on either time or mileage, per the OEM spec (whichever comes first).
>
> Tom Coradeschi
> [email-masked]
>
> On Aug 29, 2022, at 1:44 PM, Gene Garrison <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
>
can
oll
k
A
tal
r
ng
g>
ins on
ey always
or
rue
o off
first
th
ughts on
org
rchive
[email-masked]
chive
garrison-grafixx.com
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I change oil at 5K miles or at 12 months and use synthetic=
 oil. Probably overkill for many of my engines, however.<div><br></div><div=
>Regarding oil setting in an unused engine, I believe that synthetic oil se=
tting in an unused engine probably=C2=A0would not noticeably deteriorate fo=
r periods=C2=A0longer than 12 months.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I know=
 many folks who put synthetic oil in air-cooled motorcycles and only ride a=
 few hundred miles a year. When draining that oil, it looks pretty much the=
 same as it did when it was poured into the engine. I believe=C2=A0that it =
probably could be used for longer than 12 months in that specific scenario.=
<div><br></div><div>I think the 12 month change interval for low mileage en=
gines is mostly important for engines that routinely see short=C2=A0trips, =
do not reach operating temperatures,and may have condensation build-up in t=
he sump. It probably also is more important for non-sealed crankcases in hu=
mid environments=C2=A0where moisture from humidity could condense.=C2=A0</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Moisture also is of course a byproduct of combustion=
, and if the engine does not reach and run at normal operating temperatures=
 for sustained periods of time, moisture is likely to remain in the crankca=
se and contaminate the oil.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div></div><div><br></div><div>I do=
 not believe, however, that simply having oil in the sealed sump of an unus=
ed engine would need to be changed every 12 months from being in contact wi=
th the metal or other materials inside the engine.</div></div><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 29, 202=
2 at 6:56 PM Tom Coradeschi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">tjcora=
@icloud.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">The contaminants will cause the oil to degrade=
, hence the need to change it on either time or mileage, per the OEM spec (=
whichever comes first).<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Tom Coradeschi<div><a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a></div>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Aug 29, 2022, at 1:=
44 PM, Gene Garrison &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targe=
t=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote><=
/div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
 =20
   =20
 =20
 =20
    <p>I&#39;m glad you brought that up.=C2=A0 I&#39;ve always wondered abo=
ut
      changing oil.</p>
    <p>So oil sitting in bottles on the shelf doesn&#39;t &quot;go bad&quot=
;.=C2=A0 Right?</p>
    <p>Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be
      changed?=C2=A0 I know it now has contaminants and such in it, but tho=
se
      aren&#39;t going to cause it to degrade, are they?</p>
    <p>- GeneG<br>
    </p>
    <div>On 8/29/22 03:59, Jeff Scarbrough
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      <div dir=3D"auto">I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had
        less than 2500 miles on them because they were ten years old and
        definitely showing it.=C2=A0=C2=A0
        <div dir=3D"auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir=3D"auto">I consider tires to be like oil - they should be
          changed at a mileage or time interval, whichever comes first.=C2=
=A0
          It&#39;s just something you have to budget for.</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
        <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04
          Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div> re: &quot;How many years can a set of tires go ...&quot;<br=
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
                        <br>

</pre>
            </blockquote>
            <br>
          </div>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
 =20

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[email-masked]

--===============4767198887485508372==--

---

From: John Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 13:59:30 -0700

>> or time interval, whichever comes first. It's just something you have 

If you see visible cracking in the sidewalls you didn't keep them 
covered well enough.

Indoors out of solar UV and depending on other atmospheric conditions 
they will survive much longer than outdoors but you still need to look.

John.

[email-masked]