Subject: [Shop-talk] shop internet

From: "john niolon" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:01:45 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format

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I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached sh=
op building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 =
feet of cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
\even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...m=
odem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs int=
o any other plug on same
breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..  =20

anyone have any experienced with this type service ??

example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid=
%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26=
meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt=
%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26p=
g%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3D=
NETGEAR&_trksid=3Dp2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=3Dcksum%3A275159414599=
9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1yt=
ZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%2=
52BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252B=
zI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9c=
zJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0=
A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMa=
WhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=3D1186426581

thanks
john

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001"></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">I'm trying to get some 'reliable' interne=
t service to my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for c=
able access&nbsp; (just under 300 feet of cable)&nbsp;and too many obs=
tacles for wireless</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">\even with an extender... looking at powe=
rline units...&nbsp; two boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs int=
o 120 v plug...other box plugs into any other plug on same</FONT></DIV=
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">breaker box and the laptop plugs into it =
with cat-5-cable..&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">anyone have any experienced with this typ=
e service ??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">example:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI"><A href=3D"https://www.ebay.com/itm/27515=
9414599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE=
=2ECOMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c82=
65e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26=
itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStr=
ipV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&amp;_trksid=3Dp20476=
75.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=3Dcksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8=
265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k=
7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh=
7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQ=
UHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MV=
T0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAe=
fFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3A=
PL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&amp;epid=3D1186426581">https://www.ebay.com/itm=
/275159414599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOME=
SPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b8=
1c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D26563836504=
7%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DIte=
mStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&amp;_trksid=3Dp2=
047675.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=3Dcksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b=
81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9o=
jO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5=
yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%25=
2FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxD=
a3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqF=
QfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campi=
d%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&amp;epid=3D1186426581</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">john</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

--===============1437863466418337180==--

---

From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:17:09 -0500

--===============3795668503472841216==
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John,

I have only tried Ethernet over power line once & it didn=E2=80=99t work. It=
 was about 10 years ago, so I=E2=80=99m sure things are better now so it=E2=80=
=99s worth a try. One thing to watch is to be sure that the two modules are p=
lugged into the same line. If one is on L1 & the other on L2 it probably won=
=E2=80=99t work. Try it & if it doesn=E2=80=99t work, move one unit to the o=
pposite line. Both also have to be on the same transformer on the pole.=20

I=E2=80=99ve had good luck with non line of site through trees & underbrush b=
y using 900mhz radios. I had one installation where the radios were about 1/=
4 mile apart with a lake & solid growth in between. Worked fine with directi=
onal antennas.=20

Ethernet is spec=E2=80=99ed for up to 300 meters so cable should work but if=
 you get much lightning in your area I wouldn=E2=80=99t use it, I=E2=80=99d g=
o with fiber.=20

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne=20
We support Habitat for Humanity

On Apr 11, 2022, at 5:02 PM, john niolon <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop bui=
lding... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet of cabl=
e) and too many obstacles for wireless
\even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...modem p=
lugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any other p=
lug on same
breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable.. =20
=20
anyone have any experienced with this type service ??
=20
example:
=20
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111=
0018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d423=
4b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D26563=
8365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DIte=
mStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=3Dp2047675.c10=
1196.m2219&amdata=3Dcksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Ce=
nc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoL=
IjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMg=
t%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSy=
E07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FC=
gmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYy=
vMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=3D1186426581
=20
thanks
john
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve

[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail-0D74E11D-2789-4C56-B173-A75387B9AABB
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">John,<div><br></div><div>I have only tried E=
thernet over power line once &amp; it didn=E2=80=99t work. It was about 10 y=
ears ago, so I=E2=80=99m sure things are better now so it=E2=80=99s worth a t=
ry. One thing to watch is to be sure that the two modules are plugged into t=
he same line. If one is on L1 &amp; the other on L2 it probably won=E2=80=99=
t work. Try it &amp; if it doesn=E2=80=99t work, move one unit to the opposi=
te line. Both also have to be on the same transformer on the pole.&nbsp;</di=
v><div><br></div><div>I=E2=80=99ve had good luck with non line of site throu=
gh trees &amp; underbrush by using 900mhz radios. I had one installation whe=
re the radios were about 1/4 mile apart with a lake &amp; solid growth in be=
tween. Worked fine with directional antennas.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div=
>Ethernet is spec=E2=80=99ed for up to 300 meters so cable should work but i=
f you get much lightning in your area I wouldn=E2=80=99t use it, I=E2=80=99d=
 go with fiber.&nbsp;<br><br>Peace,</div><div>Pat</div><div><br><div dir=3D"=
ltr">Pat Horne&nbsp;<div>We support Habitat for Humanity</div><div><br></div=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Apr 11, 2022, at 5:02 PM, john niolon &lt;jni=
[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
<meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001">

<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet serv=
ice to my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for cable access&=
nbsp; (just under 300 feet of cable)&nbsp;and too many obstacles for wireles=
s</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">\even with an extender... looking at powerline u=
nits...&nbsp; two boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug.=
..other box plugs into any other plug on same</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with c=
at-5-cable..&nbsp;&nbsp; </font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">anyone have any experienced with this type serv=
ice ??</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">example:</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"><a href=3D"https://www.ebay.com/itm/27515941459=
9?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTING=
S%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D=
101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3=
D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%=
26brand%3DNETGEAR&amp;_trksid=3Dp2047675.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=3Dcksum%3A=
2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252=
FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%2=
52BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQ=
LcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZT=
HfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQf=
AefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_C=
LK%7Cclp%3A2047675&amp;epid=3D1186426581">https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414=
599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTI=
NGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%=
3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt=
%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranke=
r%26brand%3DNETGEAR&amp;_trksid=3Dp2047675.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=3Dcksum%=
3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%2=
52FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI=
%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1f=
yQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ez=
ZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQ=
fAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_=
CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&amp;epid=3D1186426581</a></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">thanks</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">john</font></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span></span=
><br><span>[email-masked]</span><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.=
net/donate.html</span><br><span>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.96</span=
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tox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</span><br><span=
></span><br></div></div></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

--===============3795668503472841216==--

---

From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 18:19:16 -0400

--===============1333588704203293928==

--0000000000006c4c3a05dc685655
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It's my understanding that all the boxes need to be on the same service.
For instance, my shop has a separate transformer so that wouldn't work for
me.

On Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 18:02 john niolon <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop
> building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet o=
f
> cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...mode=
m
> plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any
> other plug on same
> breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D=
1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9=
d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D=
265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv=
%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=3Dp2047=
675.c101196.m2219&amdata=3Dcksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d8=
1de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8=
baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0R=
JbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVM=
t6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sY=
l6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3c=
DN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=3D11864265=
81
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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>
>

--0000000000006c4c3a05dc685655
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">It&#39;s my understanding that all the boxes need to be o=
n the same service.=C2=A0 For instance, my shop has a separate transformer =
so that wouldn&#39;t work for me.</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 18:02 john niolon &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">I&#39;m trying to get some &#39;reliable&#39; =
internet service to my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for=
 cable access=C2=A0 (just under 300 feet of cable)=C2=A0and too many obstac=
les for wireless</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">\even with an extender... looking at powerline=
 units...=C2=A0 two boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v pl=
ug...other box plugs into any other plug on same</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with =
cat-5-cable..=C2=A0=C2=A0 </font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">anyone have any experienced with this type ser=
vice ??</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">example:</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"><a href=3D"https://www.ebay.com/itm/2751594145=
99?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTI=
NGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid=
%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26p=
mt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ra=
nker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&amp;_trksid=3Dp2047675.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=3Dck=
sum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD=
4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh=
7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%2=
52BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ=
30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhm=
omEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7C=
ampid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&amp;epid=3D1186426581" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%=
3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238=
115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rk=
t%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D=
2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&a=
mp;_trksid=3Dp2047675.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=3Dcksum%3A2751594145999d4234=
b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqd=
mLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5=
yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQU=
HFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chET=
DN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%25=
2BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2=
047675&amp;epid=3D1186426581</a></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">thanks</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">john</font></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer">[email-masked]</a><br>
errer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</=
a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: John Innis <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:25:27 -0500

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I used a wireless bridge to solve this problem.  It was not cheap, but it
was easy to set up and has worked flawlessly.  Requires direct line of
sight, and power at both ends.  Otherwise it can be configured to work just
like a long piece of wire.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EBBKVDE/ref=3Dcm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_GA4QVT0811TPGNB=
PX8VY

f
m
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D Never offend people with style when you   =3D
=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I used a wireless bridge to solve this problem.=C2=A0=
 It was not cheap, but it was easy to set up and has worked flawlessly.=C2=
=A0 Requires direct line of sight, and power at both ends.=C2=A0 Otherwise =
it can be configured to work just like a long piece of wire.</div><a href=
=3D"https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EBBKVDE/ref=3Dcm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_GA4QVT0811T=
PGNBPX8VY">https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EBBKVDE/ref=3Dcm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_GA4Q=
VT0811TPGNBPX8VY</a></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" c=
lass=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 5:02 PM john niolon &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">I&#39;m trying to get some &#39;reliable&#39; =
internet service to my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for=
 cable access=C2=A0 (just under 300 feet of cable)=C2=A0and too many obstac=
les for wireless</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">\even with an extender... looking at powerline=
 units...=C2=A0 two boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v pl=
ug...other box plugs into any other plug on same</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with =
cat-5-cable..=C2=A0=C2=A0 </font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">anyone have any experienced with this type ser=
vice ??</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">example:</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"><a href=3D"https://www.ebay.com/itm/2751594145=
99?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTI=
NGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid=
%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26p=
mt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ra=
nker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&amp;_trksid=3Dp2047675.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=3Dck=
sum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD=
4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh=
7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%2=
52BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ=
30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhm=
omEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7C=
ampid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&amp;epid=3D1186426581" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D11100=
18%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234=
b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D26563=
8365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DIt=
emStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&amp;_trksid=3Dp20476=
75.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=3Dcksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e8=
4d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKe=
Vo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUy=
H0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0=
sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb=
5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUW=
X3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&amp;epid=3D1=
186426581</a></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">thanks</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">john</font></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g=
mail_signature">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>=3D Never offend people with =
style when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Bro=
wn=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</div>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Peter Murray <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:40:56 -0400

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John-

How much bandwidth do you want in your shop?

I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now, and have
had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home office about 200'
from my house, and those adapters provided a very serviceable connection
between the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As others have
pointed out, you'll have best luck with them with them both operating on
the same hot leg of your 240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss, but
a pair of "2000Mbit" units isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be
surprised in the least if you find they work just fine for you. I would
connect one of them to an available LAN ethernet ports (likely on your
router) and the other (in the shop) in a convenient outlet. You can get
versions that have built in PoE (for an access point, perhaps), or you can
adapt another router/AP to simply provide wifi in the shop. There are also
network-over-power/AP combo units as well. Don't forget that the
network-over-powerline units don't operate in pairs - you can place several
wherever you need them, and they'll act like additional ethernet ports. I
like the TP-Link gear, and units with a pass-through power port and a
couple of ports are wicked handy.

In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded" from the
network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yields about
150-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly only 300' from one
building to the other, I think you'll not have any trouble linking the two
locations using 5GHz wireless. The trees will attenuate, but you can focus
the power available to increase your link budget and "burn through" the
vegetation. I'd look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2 units (pretty
cheap on Amazon
<https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-LBE-5AC-GEN2-US-LiteBeam-Wireless-Bridge/d=
p/B06Y2JH7PV?th=3D1>)
- they'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbit of throughput with 80MHz
channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield better reliability if that
balance needs to be struck. They have about a 12 degree beamwidth, so
they're pretty forgiving with your aim, but the available power is focused
where you want it.

When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the service
run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right now -
didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made
6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I'll light it up
at 1Gbit (for the moment). With LC connectors on each end of the fiber, the
ethernet switches and mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into conventional
copper ethernet are cheap, and I don't worry about my ham radio RF or
lightning strikes acting on a big copper ethernet line like an antenna.
LANShack is who I'm looking at for the fiber, by the way.

If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your ethernet
maximum (100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6, and I'd put it in
flexible conduit, guessing that you don't already have conduit in place.
You don't really even need to worry about putting it below the frost line -
goodness knows that Cox (our local coax cable company) and Verizon FiOS
don't. That said, I would suggest calling your local utility marking outfit
before you dig.

Happy to talk further!

-Peter (independent IT guy, radio amateur)

f
m
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">John-<div><br></div><div>How much bandwidth do you want in=
 your shop?</div><div><br></div><div>I have used network-over-powerline ada=
pters for quite a while now, and have had good success with them. I have an=
 outbuilding/home office about 200&#39; from my house, and those adapters p=
rovided a very serviceable connection between the outbuilding and the house=
 (about 25Mbit). As others have pointed out, you&#39;ll have best luck with=
 them with them both operating on the same hot leg of your 240V split-phase=
 power. It can be hit or miss, but a pair of &quot;2000Mbit&quot; units isn=
&#39;t terribly expensive. I wouldn&#39;t be surprised in the least if you =
find they work just fine for you. I would connect one of them to an availab=
le LAN ethernet ports (likely on your router) and the other (in the shop) i=
n a convenient outlet. You can get versions that have built in PoE (for an =
access point, perhaps), or you can adapt another router/AP to simply provid=
e wifi in the shop. There are also network-over-power/AP combo units as wel=
l. Don&#39;t forget that the network-over-powerline units don&#39;t operate=
 in pairs - you can place several wherever you=C2=A0need them, and they&#39=
;ll act like additional ethernet ports. I like the TP-Link gear, and units =
with a pass-through power port and a couple of ports are wicked handy.</div=
><div><br></div><div><div>In my situation, I do have clear line of sight an=
d have &quot;upgraded&quot; from the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti=
 mesh link, which yields about 150-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are=
 truly only 300&#39; from one building to the other, I think you&#39;ll not=
 have any trouble linking the two locations using 5GHz wireless. The trees =
will attenuate, but you can focus the power available to increase your link=
 budget and &quot;burn through&quot; the vegetation. I&#39;d look at a pair=
 of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2 units (pretty cheap on <a href=3D"https://www.am=
azon.com/Ubiquiti-LBE-5AC-GEN2-US-LiteBeam-Wireless-Bridge/dp/B06Y2JH7PV?th=
=3D1">Amazon</a>) - they&#39;ll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbit of thr=
oughput with 80MHz channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield better =
reliability if that balance needs to be struck. They have about a 12 degree=
 beamwidth, so they&#39;re pretty forgiving with your aim, but the availabl=
e power is focused where you want it.</div></div><div><br></div><div>When I=
 installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the=C2=A0service =
run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right now - didn&=
#39;t run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made 6-strand=
 OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I&#39;ll light it up at 1=
Gbit (for the moment). With LC connectors on each end of the fiber, the eth=
ernet switches and mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into conventional copp=
er ethernet are cheap, and I don&#39;t worry about my ham radio RF or light=
ning strikes acting on a big copper ethernet line like an antenna. LANShack=
 is who I&#39;m looking at for the fiber, by the way.</div><div><br></div><=
div>If you&#39;re not averse to running a copper cable, 330&#39; is your et=
hernet maximum (100m). If you go that route, I&#39;d go with Cat6, and I&#3=
9;d put it in flexible conduit,=C2=A0guessing that you don&#39;t already ha=
ve conduit in place. You don&#39;t really even need to worry about putting =
it below the frost line - goodness knows that Cox (our local coax cable com=
pany) and Verizon FiOS don&#39;t. That said, I would suggest calling your l=
ocal utility marking outfit before you dig.</div><div><br></div><div>Happy =
to talk further!<br></div><div><br></div><div>-Peter (independent IT guy, r=
adio amateur)</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 6:02 PM john niolon &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://aut=
ox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Brian Kemp <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 20:49:49 -0700

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300' of cat-5e or cat-6 cable should be fine.  Max total cable length 
between devices is 328' or 100m before signal loss.  If you put a router 
at the near end of the shop, it should provide nice local wifi in the 
shop or let you plug in a laptop or remote security camera.

If you go fiber, you can easily go 500-2000m depending on the type of 
fiber and speed.  You can either pull a premade cable or terminate it 
yourself.  Check out a couple videos - not too hard anymore.  There is 
delicate fiber that needs to be in conduit or heavy duty outdoor fiber 
that can run on utility poles or for direct burial.

Brian

On 4/11/2022 3:01 PM, john niolon wrote:
> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached 
> shop building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 
> 300 feet of cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two 
> boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box 
> plugs into any other plug on same
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581 
> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581>
> thanks
> john
>
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>

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    300' of cat-5e or cat-6 cable should be fine.  Max total cable
    length between devices is 328' or 100m before signal loss.  If you
    put a router at the near end of the shop, it should provide nice
    local wifi in the shop or let you plug in a laptop or remote
    security camera.<br>
    <br>
    If you go fiber, you can easily go 500-2000m depending on the type
    of fiber and speed.  You can either pull a premade cable or
    terminate it yourself.  Check out a couple videos - not too hard
    anymore.  There is delicate fiber that needs to be in conduit or
    heavy duty outdoor fiber that can run on utility poles or for direct
    burial.<br>
    <br>
    Brian<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/11/2022 3:01 PM, john niolon
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN@johns-desktop">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001">
      <div><font face="Segoe UI">I'm trying to get some 'reliable'
          internet service to my unattached shop building... just a
          shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet of
          cable) and too many obstacles for wireless</font></div>
      <div><font face="Segoe UI">\even with an extender... looking at
          powerline units...  two boxes...modem plugs into one and it
          plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any other plug on
          same</font></div>
      <div><font face="Segoe UI">breaker box and the laptop plugs into
          it with cat-5-cable..   </font></div>
      <div> </div>
      <div><font face="Segoe UI">anyone have any experienced with this
          type service ??</font></div>
      <div> </div>
      <div><font face="Segoe UI">example:</font></div>
      <div> </div>
      <div><font face="Segoe UI"><a
href="https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&amp;_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&amp;epid=1186426581"
            moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&amp;_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&amp;epid=1186426581</a></font></div>
      <div> </div>
      <div><font face="Segoe UI">thanks</font></div>
      <div><font face="Segoe UI">john</font></div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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[email-masked]

--===============8743874180370621249==--

---

From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 06:03:55 -0400

"...I had the service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that
escape me right now - didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend
to order a pre-made 6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this
summer. "

I know you can't mix medium-voltage and low voltage cables in the same
conduit.  Can you run fiber with the electric service?  Is that a good
idea?

-- Jeff

On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 10:41 PM Peter Murray <[email-masked]> wrote:
> I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now, and have had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home office about 200' from my house, and those adapters provided a very serviceable connection between the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As others have pointed out, you'll have best luck with them with them both operating on the same hot leg of your 240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss, but a pair of "2000Mbit" units isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if you find they work just fine for you. I would connect one of them to an available LAN ethernet ports (likely on your router) and the other (in the shop) in a convenient outlet. You can get versions that have built in PoE (for an access point, perhaps), or you can adapt another router/AP to simply provide wifi in the shop. There are also network-over-power/AP combo units as well. Don't forget that the network-over-powerline units don't operate in pairs - you can place several wherever you need them, and they'll act like additional ethernet ports. I like the TP-Link gear, and units with a pass-through power port and a couple of ports are wicked handy.
>
> In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded" from the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yields about 150-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly only 300' from one building to the other, I think you'll not have any trouble linking the two locations using 5GHz wireless. The trees will attenuate, but you can focus the power available to increase your link budget and "burn through" the vegetation. I'd look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2 units (pretty cheap on Amazon) - they'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbit of throughput with 80MHz channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield better reliability if that balance needs to be struck. They have about a 12 degree beamwidth, so they're pretty forgiving with your aim, but the available power is focused where you want it.
>
> When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right now - didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made 6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I'll light it up at 1Gbit (for the moment). With LC connectors on each end of the fiber, the ethernet switches and mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into conventional copper ethernet are cheap, and I don't worry about my ham radio RF or lightning strikes acting on a big copper ethernet line like an antenna. LANShack is who I'm looking at for the fiber, by the way.
>
> If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your ethernet maximum (100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6, and I'd put it in flexible conduit, guessing that you don't already have conduit in place. You don't really even need to worry about putting it below the frost line - goodness knows that Cox (our local coax cable company) and Verizon FiOS don't. That said, I would suggest calling your local utility marking outfit before you dig.
>
> Happy to talk further!
>
>> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet of cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
>> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any other plug on same
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>

[email-masked]

---

From: Peter Murray <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 10:53:29 -0400

--===============6875536749797801718==

--0000000000004278fb05dc763a07
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

My read of the relevant section of the NEC (770.133) indicates that where
there are circuits under 1000V, the cable I'm going to pull (non-conductive
optical fiber cable) is allowed. I'll check with my electrician before I
proceed, in any case, as (in the same section) I can't have the fiber in
the electrical panel/box itself.

-Peter

On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 6:04 AM Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]> wrote=
:

> > I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now, and
> have had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home office about
> 200' from my house, and those adapters provided a very serviceable
> connection between the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As other=
s
> have pointed out, you'll have best luck with them with them both operatin=
g
> on the same hot leg of your 240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss=
,
> but a pair of "2000Mbit" units isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be
> versions that have built in PoE (for an access point, perhaps), or you ca=
n
> adapt another router/AP to simply provide wifi in the shop. There are als=
o
> network-over-powerline units don't operate in pairs - you can place sever=
al
> > In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded" from
> the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yields about
> building to the other, I think you'll not have any trouble linking the tw=
o
> locations using 5GHz wireless. The trees will attenuate, but you can focu=
s
> cheap on Amazon) - they'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbit of
> throughput with 80MHz channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield
> better reliability if that balance needs to be struck. They have about a =
12
> degree beamwidth, so they're pretty forgiving with your aim, but the
> available power is focused where you want it.
> >
> > When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the
> service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right n=
ow
> - didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made
> 6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I'll light it u=
p
> at 1Gbit (for the moment). With LC connectors on each end of the fiber, t=
he
> You don't really even need to worry about putting it below the frost line=
 -
> don't. That said, I would suggest calling your local utility marking outf=
it
> shop building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300
> boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plu=
gs
> into any other plug on same
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

--0000000000004278fb05dc763a07
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">My read of the relevant section of the NEC (<span style=3D=
"color:rgb(38,38,38);font-size:13px">770.133) indicates that where there ar=
e circuits under 1000V, the cable I&#39;m going to pull (non-conductive opt=
ical fiber cable) is allowed. I&#39;ll check with my electrician before I p=
roceed, in any case, as (in the same section) I can&#39;t have the fiber in=
 the electrical panel/box itself.</span><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(38,38=
,38);font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(38,38,3=
8);font-size:13px">-Peter</span></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 6:04 AM Jeff =
Scarbrough &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">&q=
uot;...I had the service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that<br=
escape me right now - didn&#39;t run any fiber. I regret that, and intend<b=
r>
to order a pre-made 6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this<br>
summer. &quot;<br>
<br>
I know you can&#39;t mix medium-voltage and low voltage cables in the same<=
br>
conduit.=C2=A0 Can you run fiber with the electric service?=C2=A0 Is that a=
 good<br>
idea?<br>
<br>
-- Jeff<br>
<br>
On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 10:41 PM Peter Murray &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peterwm=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
&gt;<br>
&gt; John-<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; How much bandwidth do you want in your shop?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now, and=
 have had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home office about 2=
00&#39; from my house, and those adapters provided a very serviceable conne=
ction between the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As others have =
pointed out, you&#39;ll have best luck with them with them both operating o=
n the same hot leg of your 240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss, b=
ut a pair of &quot;2000Mbit&quot; units isn&#39;t terribly expensive. I wou=
ldn&#39;t be surprised in the least if you find they work just fine for you=
. I would connect one of them to an available LAN ethernet ports (likely on=
 your router) and the other (in the shop) in a convenient outlet. You can g=
et versions that have built in PoE (for an access point, perhaps), or you c=
an adapt another router/AP to simply provide wifi in the shop. There are al=
so network-over-power/AP combo units as well. Don&#39;t forget that the net=
work-over-powerline units don&#39;t operate in pairs - you can place severa=
l wherever you need them, and they&#39;ll act like additional ethernet port=
s. I like the TP-Link gear, and units with a pass-through power port and a =
couple of ports are wicked handy.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have &quot;upgraded=
&quot; from the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yie=
lds about 150-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly only 300&#39; =
from one building to the other, I think you&#39;ll not have any trouble lin=
king the two locations using 5GHz wireless. The trees will attenuate, but y=
ou can focus the power available to increase your link budget and &quot;bur=
n through&quot; the vegetation. I&#39;d look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam=
 Gen2 units (pretty cheap on Amazon) - they&#39;ll get you somewhere around=
 250-300Mbit of throughput with 80MHz channel usage. Narrower channel usage=
 will yield better reliability if that balance needs to be struck. They hav=
e about a 12 degree beamwidth, so they&#39;re pretty forgiving with your ai=
m, but the available power is focused where you want it.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the se=
rvice run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right now -=
 didn&#39;t run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made 6-=
strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I&#39;ll light it u=
p at 1Gbit (for the moment). With LC connectors on each end of the fiber, t=
he ethernet switches and mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into conventiona=
l copper ethernet are cheap, and I don&#39;t worry about my ham radio RF or=
 lightning strikes acting on a big copper ethernet line like an antenna. LA=
NShack is who I&#39;m looking at for the fiber, by the way.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If you&#39;re not averse to running a copper cable, 330&#39; is your e=
thernet maximum (100m). If you go that route, I&#39;d go with Cat6, and I&#=
39;d put it in flexible conduit, guessing that you don&#39;t already have c=
onduit in place. You don&#39;t really even need to worry about putting it b=
elow the frost line - goodness knows that Cox (our local coax cable company=
) and Verizon FiOS don&#39;t. That said, I would suggest calling your local=
 utility marking outfit before you dig.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Happy to talk further!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -Peter (independent IT guy, radio amateur)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 6:02 PM john niolon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jnio=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; I&#39;m trying to get some &#39;reliable&#39; internet service to =
my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for cable access=C2=A0 =
(just under 300 feet of cable) and too many obstacles for wireless<br>
&gt;&gt; \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...=C2=A0 two =
boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs=
 into any other plug on same<br>
&gt;&gt; breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; anyone have any experienced with this type service ??<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; example:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=3Damclk=
src%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3=
D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%=
26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26p=
g%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGE=
AR&amp;_trksid=3Dp2047675.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=3Dcksum%3A2751594145999d=
4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzu=
CsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnx=
kDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252=
FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0=
chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hP=
o%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp=
%3A2047675&amp;epid=3D1186426581" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001=
8%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b=
8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638=
365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DIte=
mStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&amp;_trksid=3Dp204767=
5.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=3Dcksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84=
d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeV=
o8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH=
0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0s=
VMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5=
sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX=
3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&amp;epid=3D11=
86426581</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; thanks<br>
&gt;&gt; john<br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop=
[email-masked]</a><br>
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&gt;&gt; Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96<br>
&gt;&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=
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blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/optio=
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r>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-tal=
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&gt;<br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000004278fb05dc763a07--

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[email-masked]

--===============6875536749797801718==--

---

From: "john niolon" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 21:47:54 -0500

--===============2030064373882486204==

--REZmsw5qHloxqCFVnL6wMRpM=_Z4WXQk2W
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peter...   I want enough to search the net, watch a video on YouTube..=
=2Ejust=20
general access... no streaming or heavy downloads/uploads... I got dia=
l up=20
speeds now =20
and some of these suggestions are way above my budget for garage acces=
s...   I=20
just thought powerline might be a reasonably cheap alternative to cat-=
5

----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Murray <[email-masked]>
To: john niolon <[email-masked]>, Shop-Talk List <[email-masked]=
m.net>
Sent: 4/11/2022 9:40:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] shop internet

John-

I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now, and=
 have had=20
good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home office about=20
200' from my house, and those adapters provided a very serviceable con=
nection between the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As other=
s have pointed out, you'll=20
have best luck with them with them both operating on the same hot leg =
of your=20
240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss, but a pair of "2000Mbit=
" units=20
isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if you =
find they=20
work just fine for you. I would connect one of them to an available LA=
N=20
ethernet ports (likely on your router) and the other (in the shop) in =
a=20
convenient outlet. You can get versions that have built in PoE (for an=
 access=20
point, perhaps), or you can adapt another router/AP to simply provide =
wifi in=20
the shop. There are also network-over-power/AP combo units as well.=20=

Don't forget that the network-over-powerline units don't operate in pa=
irs - you=20
can place several wherever you need them, and=20
they'll act like additional ethernet ports. I like the TP-Link gear, a=
nd units with a pass-through power port and a couple of ports are wick=
ed handy.

In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded" fro=
m the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yields a=
bout 150-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly only 300'=20
from one building to the other, I think=20
you'll not have any trouble linking the two locations using 5GHz wirel=
ess. The trees will attenuate, but you can focus the power available t=
o increase your link budget and "burn through" the vegetation. I'd=20
look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2 units (pretty cheap on Amazon=
) -=20
they'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbit of throughput with 80MHz =
channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield better reliability if=
 that balance needs to be struck. They have about a 12 degree beamwidt=
h, so they're=20
pretty forgiving with your aim, but the available power is focused whe=
re you=20
want it.

When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the se=
rvice run=20
in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right now -=20
didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made 6-=
strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I'll=20
light it up at 1Gbit (for the moment). With LC connectors on each end =
of the=20
fiber, the ethernet switches and mini-GBIC units needed to turn it int=
o=20
conventional copper ethernet are cheap, and I=20
don't worry about my ham radio RF or lightning strikes acting on a big=
 copper ethernet line like an antenna. LANShack is who I'm=20
looking at for the fiber, by the way.

If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your ethernet =
maximum=20
(100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6, and I'd put it in flex=
ible=20
conduit, guessing that you don't already have conduit in place. You do=
n't=20
really even need to worry about putting it below the frost line - good=
ness=20
knows that Cox (our local coax cable company) and Verizon FiOS=20
don't. That said, I would suggest calling your local utility marking o=
utfit before you dig.

Happy to talk further!

I'm=20
trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop=20=

building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 fee=
t of=20
cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
\even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...m=
odem=20
plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any=
 other=20
plug on same
breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..  =20

example:

thanks
john

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net=
/archive

talk/[email-masked]

--REZmsw5qHloxqCFVnL6wMRpM=_Z4WXQk2W
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

<HTML><HEAD>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001"></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">peter...<EM>&nbsp;</EM>&nbsp; I want enou=
gh to search the net, watch a video on YouTube...just general access..=
=2E no streaming or heavy downloads/uploads... I got dial up speeds no=
w&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">and some of these suggestions are way abo=
ve my budget for garage access...&nbsp;&nbsp; I just thought powerline=
 might be a reasonably cheap alternative to cat-5</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LE=
FT: 0.5em; BORDER-LEFT: #c7e5ff 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.5em; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR: #000000=
"><B>----- Original Message -----</B></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR: #000000=
"><B>From:</B> Peter Murray &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
om">[email-masked]</A>&gt;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR: #000000=
"><B>To:</B> john niolon &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">jniolo=
[email-masked]</A>&gt;, Shop-Talk List &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@auto=
x.team.net">[email-masked]</A>&gt;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR: #000000=
"><B>Sent:</B> 4/11/2022 9:40:56 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR: #000000=
"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Shop-talk] shop internet</DIV>
<HR style=3D"BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 1px; BORDER-RIGHT: mediu=
m none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; COLOR: #ccc; BORDER-LEFT: medium n=
one; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ccc">

<DIV dir=3Dltr>John-
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>How much bandwidth do you want in your shop?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now=
, and have had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home offi=
ce about 200' from my house, and those adapters provided a very servic=
eable connection between the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit).=
 As others have pointed out, you'll have best luck with them with them=
 both operating on the same hot leg of your 240V split-phase power. It=
 can be hit or miss, but a pair of "2000Mbit" units isn't terribly exp=
ensive. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if you find they work jus=
t fine for you. I would connect one of them to an available LAN ethern=
et ports (likely on your router) and the other (in the shop) in a conv=
enient outlet. You can get versions that have built in PoE (for an acc=
ess point, perhaps), or you can adapt another router/AP to simply prov=
ide wifi in the shop. There are also network-over-power/AP combo units=
 as well. Don't forget that the network-over-powerline units don't ope=
rate in pairs - you can place several wherever you&nbsp;need them, and=
 they'll act like additional ethernet ports. I like the TP-Link gear, =
and units with a pass-through power port and a couple of ports are wic=
ked handy.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded=
" from the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yie=
lds about 150-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly only 300'=
 from one building to the other, I think you'll not have any trouble l=
inking the two locations using 5GHz wireless. The trees will attenuate=
, but you can focus the power available to increase your link budget a=
nd "burn through" the vegetation. I'd look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteB=
eam Gen2 units (pretty cheap on <A href=3D"https://www.amazon.com/Ubiq=
uiti-LBE-5AC-GEN2-US-LiteBeam-Wireless-Bridge/dp/B06Y2JH7PV?th=3D1">Am=
azon</A>) - they'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbit of throughput=
 with 80MHz channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield better re=
liability if that balance needs to be struck. They have about a 12 deg=
ree beamwidth, so they're pretty forgiving with your aim, but the avai=
lable power is focused where you want it.</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had t=
he&nbsp;service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape=
 me right now - didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to ord=
er a pre-made 6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this summer=
=2E I'll light it up at 1Gbit (for the moment). With LC connectors on =
each end of the fiber, the ethernet switches and mini-GBIC units neede=
d to turn it into conventional copper ethernet are cheap, and I don't =
worry about my ham radio RF or lightning strikes acting on a big coppe=
r ethernet line like an antenna. LANShack is who I'm looking at for th=
e fiber, by the way.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your ethe=
rnet maximum (100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6, and I'd p=
ut it in flexible conduit,&nbsp;guessing that you don't already have c=
onduit in place. You don't really even need to worry about putting it =
below the frost line - goodness knows that Cox (our local coax cable c=
ompany) and Verizon FiOS don't. That said, I would suggest calling you=
r local utility marking outfit before you dig.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Happy to talk further!<BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>-Peter (independent IT guy, radio amateur)</DIV></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_attr dir=3Dltr>On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 6:02 PM john=
 niolon &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A>&gt;=
 wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEF=
T: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">I'm trying to get some 'reliable' interne=
t service to my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for c=
able access&nbsp; (just under 300 feet of cable)&nbsp;and too many obs=
tacles for wireless</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">\even with an extender... looking at powe=
rline units...&nbsp; two boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs int=
o 120 v plug...other box plugs into any other plug on same</FONT></DIV=
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">breaker box and the laptop plugs into it =
with cat-5-cable..&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">anyone have any experienced with this typ=
e service ??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">example:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI"><A href=3D"https://www.ebay.com/itm/27515=
9414599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE=
=2ECOMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c82=
65e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26=
itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStr=
ipV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&amp;_trksid=3Dp20476=
75.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=3Dcksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8=
265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k=
7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh=
7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQ=
UHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MV=
T0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAe=
fFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3A=
PL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&amp;epid=3D1186426581" target=3D_blank>https://=
www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D11100=
18%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9=
d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26=
sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047=
675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&=
amp;_trksid=3Dp2047675.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=3Dcksum%3A275159414599=
9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1yt=
ZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%2=
52BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252B=
zI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9c=
zJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0=
A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMa=
WhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&amp;epid=3D1186426581</A></=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Segoe UI">john</FONT></DIV></DIV>__________________=
_____________________________<BR><BR><A href=3D"mailto:Shop-talk@autox=
=2Eteam.net" target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A><BR>Donate: <=
A href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3Dnoreferrer target=3D_=
blank>http://www.team.net/donate.html</A><BR>Suggested annual donation=
&nbsp; $12.96<BR>Archive: <A href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/sho=
p-talk" rel=3Dnoreferrer target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/pipermail=
/shop-talk</A> <A href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3Dnorefer=
rer target=3D_blank>http://autox.team.net/archive</A><BR><BR>Unsubscri=
be/Manage: <A href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/=
[email-masked]" rel=3Dnoreferrer target=3D_blank>http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</A><BR><BR><=
/BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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[email-masked]

--===============2030064373882486204==--

---

From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 22:29:53 -0500

--===============4330143263562607771==
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	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> On Apr 12, 2022, at 21:48, john niolon <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> peter...   I want enough to search the net, watch a video on YouTube...jus=
t general access... no streaming or heavy downloads/uploads... I got dial up=
 speeds now=20
> and some of these suggestions are way above my budget for garage access...=
   I just thought powerline might be a reasonably cheap alternative to cat-5=

Try it. If it=E2=80=99s not good enough, return it them and get something be=
tter. (Point to point radio would be my next choice.).=20

--Apple-Mail-F64CEB56-DC52-4D27-803B-6B8B1D8019BD
	charset=utf-8
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Apr 12, 2022, at 21=
:48, john niolon &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><b=
lockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
<meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001">

<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">peter...<em>&nbsp;</em>&nbsp; I want enough to s=
earch the net, watch a video on YouTube...just general access... no streamin=
g or heavy downloads/uploads... I got dial up speeds now&nbsp; </font></div>=

<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">and some of these suggestions are way above my b=
udget for garage access...&nbsp;&nbsp; I just thought powerline might be a r=
easonably cheap alternative to cat-5</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Try it. If it=E2=80=99=
s not good enough, return it them and get something better. (Point to point r=
adio would be my next choice.).&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br=
><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0.=
5em; BORDER-LEFT: #c7e5ff 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.5em; PADDING-RIGH=
T: 0px">
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR: #000000"><br>=
</div></blockquote></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

--===============4330143263562607771==--

---

From: Tom Coradeschi <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 06:47:00 -0400

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Thought just came to mind. If this is for =E2=80=9Clight duty=E2=80=9D use, i=
s there anything wrong with (assuming you have decent cellular coverage and t=
he right phone) simply using your phone as a Wi-Fi hot spot? Data usage woul=
d be a challenge, depending on what you are paying for=E2=80=A6

Tom Coradeschi
[email-masked]

> On Apr 12, 2022, at 10:48 PM, john niolon <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF

> To: john niolon <[email-masked]>, Shop-Talk List <[email-masked]=
t>
> I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now, and hav=
e had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home office about 200' f=
rom my house, and those adapters provided a very serviceable connection betw=
een the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As others have pointed out=
, you'll have best luck with them with them both operating on the same hot l=
eg of your 240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss, but a pair of "200=
0Mbit" units isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be surprised in the least i=
f you find they work just fine for you. I would connect one of them to an av=
ailable LAN ethernet ports (likely on your router) and the other (in the sho=
p) in a convenient outlet. You can get versions that have built in PoE (for a=
n access point, perhaps), or you can adapt another router/AP to simply provi=
de wifi in the shop. There are also network-over-power/AP combo units as wel=
l. Don't forget that the network-over-powerline units don't operate in pairs=
 - you can place several wherever you need them, and they'll act like additi=
onal ethernet ports. I like the TP-Link gear, and units with a pass-through p=
ower port and a couple of ports are wicked handy.
>=20
> In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded" from th=
e network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yields about 150-2=
00Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly only 300' from one building to=
 the other, I think you'll not have any trouble linking the two locations us=
ing 5GHz wireless. The trees will attenuate, but you can focus the power ava=
ilable to increase your link budget and "burn through" the vegetation. I'd l=
ook at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2 units (pretty cheap on Amazon) - the=
y'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbit of throughput with 80MHz channel u=
sage. Narrower channel usage will yield better reliability if that balance n=
eeds to be struck. They have about a 12 degree beamwidth, so they're pretty f=
orgiving with your aim, but the available power is focused where you want it=
.
>=20
> When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the servic=
e run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right now - didn=
't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made 6-strand OS3=
 fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I'll light it up at 1Gbit (for=
 the moment). With LC connectors on each end of the fiber, the ethernet swit=
ches and mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into conventional copper ethernet=
 are cheap, and I don't worry about my ham radio RF or lightning strikes act=
ing on a big copper ethernet line like an antenna. LANShack is who I'm looki=
ng at for the fiber, by the way.
>=20
> If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your ethernet maxi=
mum (100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6, and I'd put it in flexib=
le conduit, guessing that you don't already have conduit in place. You don't=
 really even need to worry about putting it below the frost line - goodness k=
nows that Cox (our local coax cable company) and Verizon FiOS don't. That sa=
id, I would suggest calling your local utility marking outfit before you dig=
.
>> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop b=
uilding... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet of ca=
ble) and too many obstacles for wireless
>> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...mode=
m plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any oth=
er plug on same
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D=
1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d=
4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D26=
5638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3D=
ItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=3Dp2047675.=
c101196.m2219&amdata=3Dcksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%=
7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64d=
uoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7d=
zMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7=
JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP=
72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEc=
XiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=3D1186426581
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar=
chive
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peter=
[email-masked]
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc=
hive
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora=
@icloud.com

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Thought just came to mind. If this is for =E2=
=80=9Clight duty=E2=80=9D use, is there anything wrong with (assuming you ha=
ve decent cellular coverage and the right phone) simply using your phone as a=
 Wi-Fi hot spot? Data usage would be a challenge, depending on what you are p=
aying for=E2=80=A6<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Tom Coradeschi<div>Tjcora@icloud.=
com</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Apr 12, 202=
2, at 10:48 PM, john niolon &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquo=
te></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
<meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001">

<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">and some of these suggestions are way above my b=
udget for garage access...&nbsp;&nbsp; I just thought powerline might be a r=
easonably cheap alternative to cat-5</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0.=
5em; BORDER-LEFT: #c7e5ff 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.5em; PADDING-RIGH=
T: 0px">
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR: #000000"><b>-=
---- Original Message -----</b></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR: #000000"><b>From:=
</b> Peter Murray &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">peterwmurray=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR: #000000"><b>T=
o:</b> john niolon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a=
>&gt;, Shop-Talk List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">shop-t=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR: #000000"><b>S=
ent:</b> 4/11/2022 9:40:56 PM</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR: #000000"><b>S=
ubject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] shop internet</div>
<hr style=3D"BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 1px; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none=
; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; COLOR: #ccc; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BACKGRO=
UND-COLOR: #ccc">

<div dir=3D"ltr">John-
<div><br></div>
<div>How much bandwidth do you want in your shop?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now, and h=
ave had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home office about 200'=
 from my house, and those adapters provided a very serviceable connection be=
tween the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As others have pointed o=
ut, you'll have best luck with them with them both operating on the same hot=
 leg of your 240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss, but a pair of "2=
000Mbit" units isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be surprised in the leas=
t if you find they work just fine for you. I would connect one of them to an=
 available LAN ethernet ports (likely on your router) and the other (in the s=
hop) in a convenient outlet. You can get versions that have built in PoE (fo=
r an access point, perhaps), or you can adapt another router/AP to simply pr=
ovide wifi in the shop. There are also network-over-power/AP combo units as w=
ell. Don't forget that the network-over-powerline units don't operate in pai=
rs - you can place several wherever you&nbsp;need them, and they'll act like=
 additional ethernet ports. I like the TP-Link gear, and units with a pass-t=
hrough power port and a couple of ports are wicked handy.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div>In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded" from=
 the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yields about 15=
0-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly only 300' from one building=
 to the other, I think you'll not have any trouble linking the two locations=
 using 5GHz wireless. The trees will attenuate, but you can focus the power a=
vailable to increase your link budget and "burn through" the vegetation. I'd=
 look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2 units (pretty cheap on <a href=3D"=
https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-LBE-5AC-GEN2-US-LiteBeam-Wireless-Bridge/dp/=
B06Y2JH7PV?th=3D1">Amazon</a>) - they'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbi=
t of throughput with 80MHz channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield b=
etter reliability if that balance needs to be struck. They have about a 12 d=
egree beamwidth, so they're pretty forgiving with your aim, but the availabl=
e power is focused where you want it.</div></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the&nbs=
p;service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right no=
w - didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made 6-st=
rand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I'll light it up at 1G=
bit (for the moment). With LC connectors on each end of the fiber, the ether=
net switches and mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into conventional copper e=
thernet are cheap, and I don't worry about my ham radio RF or lightning stri=
kes acting on a big copper ethernet line like an antenna. LANShack is who I'=
m looking at for the fiber, by the way.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your ethernet m=
aximum (100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6, and I'd put it in fle=
xible conduit,&nbsp;guessing that you don't already have conduit in place. Y=
ou don't really even need to worry about putting it below the frost line - g=
oodness knows that Cox (our local coax cable company) and Verizon FiOS don't=
. That said, I would suggest calling your local utility marking outfit befor=
e you dig.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Happy to talk further!<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>-Peter (independent IT guy, radio amateur)</div></div><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 6:02 PM john n=
iolon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: r=
gb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet serv=
ice to my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for cable access&=
nbsp; (just under 300 feet of cable)&nbsp;and too many obstacles for wireles=
s</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">\even with an extender... looking at powerline u=
nits...&nbsp; two boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug.=
..other box plugs into any other plug on same</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with c=
at-5-cable..&nbsp;&nbsp; </font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">anyone have any experienced with this type serv=
ice ??</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">example:</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"><a href=3D"https://www.ebay.com/itm/27515941459=
9?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTING=
S%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D=
101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3=
D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%=
26brand%3DNETGEAR&amp;_trksid=3Dp2047675.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=3Dcksum%3A=
2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252=
FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%2=
52BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQ=
LcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZT=
HfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQf=
AefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_C=
LK%7Cclp%3A2047675&amp;epid=3D1186426581" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ebay=
.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHO=
MESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c82=
65e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D=
275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAd=
FeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&amp;_trksid=3Dp2047675.c101196.m2219&a=
mp;amdata=3Dcksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQA=
GAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP9=
0FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJR=
sfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52K=
a8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEV=
r0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA=
%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&amp;epid=3D1186426581</a></font></div=
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">thanks</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">john</font></div></div>________________________=
_______________________<br><br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://w=
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m.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation&nbsp; $12.96<br>Archive: <=
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[email-masked]

--===============5905441117576468273==--

---

From: Brian Kemp <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 17:15:28 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--===============8232028805276542421==
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Content-Language: en-US

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------tQwxRXtWpPnb1Opa9omFvNy8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

If you do end up going with cat-5e, I used this crimper with great 
results when I installed a set of POE security cameras.  Comes with a 
tester to verify the cable.  I had some runs longer than the premade 
cables and bought a box of 500' cat-5e cable.  Wow have cable prices 
jumped in the last year.  I thought I paid about $30 for the cable at 
Home Depot and now it is $72.  It is pretty easy to make your own cables 
if you pull the wire.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078S55WML/

On 4/12/2022 7:47 PM, john niolon wrote:
> peter...//  I want enough to search the net, watch a video on 
> YouTube...just general access... no streaming or heavy 
> downloads/uploads... I got dial up speeds now
> and some of these suggestions are way above my budget for garage 
> access...   I just thought powerline might be a reasonably cheap 
> alternative to cat-5
>
>     *----- Original Message -----*
>     *From:* Peter Murray <[email-masked]>
>     *To:* john niolon <[email-masked]>, Shop-Talk List
>     <[email-masked]>
>     *Sent:* 4/11/2022 9:40:56 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] shop internet
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     John-
>
>     I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now,
>     and have had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home
>     office about 200' from my house, and those adapters provided a
>     very serviceable connection between the outbuilding and the house
>     (about 25Mbit). As others have pointed out, you'll have best luck
>     with them with them both operating on the same hot leg of your
>     240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss, but a pair of
>     "2000Mbit" units isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be surprised
>     in the least if you find they work just fine for you. I would
>     connect one of them to an available LAN ethernet ports (likely on
>     your router) and the other (in the shop) in a convenient outlet.
>     You can get versions that have built in PoE (for an access point,
>     perhaps), or you can adapt another router/AP to simply provide
>     wifi in the shop. There are also network-over-power/AP combo units
>     as well. Don't forget that the network-over-powerline units don't
>     operate in pairs - you can place several wherever you need them,
>     and they'll act like additional ethernet ports. I like the TP-Link
>     gear, and units with a pass-through power port and a couple of
>     ports are wicked handy.
>
>     In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded"
>     from the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which
>     yields about 150-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly
>     only 300' from one building to the other, I think you'll not have
>     any trouble linking the two locations using 5GHz wireless. The
>     trees will attenuate, but you can focus the power available to
>     increase your link budget and "burn through" the vegetation. I'd
>     look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2 units (pretty cheap on
>     Amazon
>     <https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-LBE-5AC-GEN2-US-LiteBeam-Wireless-Bridge/dp/B06Y2JH7PV?th=1>)
>     - they'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbit of throughput with
>     80MHz channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield better
>     reliability if that balance needs to be struck. They have about a
>     12 degree beamwidth, so they're pretty forgiving with your aim,
>     but the available power is focused where you want it.
>
>     When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had
>     the service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape
>     me right now - didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to
>     order a pre-made 6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this
>     summer. I'll light it up at 1Gbit (for the moment). With LC
>     connectors on each end of the fiber, the ethernet switches and
>     mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into conventional copper
>     ethernet are cheap, and I don't worry about my ham radio RF or
>     lightning strikes acting on a big copper ethernet line like an
>     antenna. LANShack is who I'm looking at for the fiber, by the way.
>
>     If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your
>     ethernet maximum (100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6,
>     and I'd put it in flexible conduit, guessing that you don't
>     already have conduit in place. You don't really even need to worry
>     about putting it below the frost line - goodness knows that Cox
>     (our local coax cable company) and Verizon FiOS don't. That said,
>     I would suggest calling your local utility marking outfit before
>     you dig.
>
>     Happy to talk further!
>
>         I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my
>         unattached shop building... just a shade too far for cable
>         access (just under 300 feet of cable) and too many obstacles
>         for wireless
>         boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v
>         plug...other box plugs into any other plug on same

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    If you do end up going with cat-5e, I used this crimper with great
    results when I installed a set of POE security cameras.  Comes with
    a tester to verify the cable.  I had some runs longer than the
    premade cables and bought a box of 500' cat-5e cable.  Wow have
    cable prices jumped in the last year.  I thought I paid about $30
    for the cable at Home Depot and now it is $72.  It is pretty easy to
    make your own cables if you pull the wire.<br>
    <br>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078S55WML/">https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078S55WML/</a><br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/12/2022 7:47 PM, john niolon
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:1UbnhAVRqh.EFwSw7Gk8IT@johns-desktop">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001">
      <div><font face="Segoe UI">peter...<em> </em>  I want enough to
          search the net, watch a video on YouTube...just general
          access... no streaming or heavy downloads/uploads... I got
          dial up speeds now  </font></div>
      <div><font face="Segoe UI">and some of these suggestions are way
          above my budget for garage access...   I just thought
          powerline might be a reasonably cheap alternative to cat-5</font></div>
      <div> </div>
      <div> </div>
      <blockquote style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px;
        PADDING-LEFT: 0.5em; BORDER-LEFT: #c7e5ff 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px
        0px 0px 0.5em; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
        <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR:
          #000000"><b>----- Original Message -----</b></div>
        <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR:
          #000000"><b>From:</b> Peter Murray &lt;<a
            href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true"
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div>
        <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR:
          #000000"><b>To:</b> john niolon &lt;<a
            href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true"
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;,
          Shop-Talk List &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div>
        <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR:
          #000000"><b>Sent:</b> 4/11/2022 9:40:56 PM</div>
        <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR:
          #000000"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] shop internet</div>
        <hr style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 1px; BORDER-RIGHT:
          medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; COLOR: #ccc;
          BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ccc">
        <div dir="ltr">John-
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>How much bandwidth do you want in your shop?</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a
            while now, and have had good success with them. I have an
            outbuilding/home office about 200' from my house, and those
            adapters provided a very serviceable connection between the
            outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As others have
            pointed out, you'll have best luck with them with them both
            operating on the same hot leg of your 240V split-phase
            power. It can be hit or miss, but a pair of "2000Mbit" units
            isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be surprised in the
            least if you find they work just fine for you. I would
            connect one of them to an available LAN ethernet ports
            (likely on your router) and the other (in the shop) in a
            convenient outlet. You can get versions that have built in
            PoE (for an access point, perhaps), or you can adapt another
            router/AP to simply provide wifi in the shop. There are also
            network-over-power/AP combo units as well. Don't forget that
            the network-over-powerline units don't operate in pairs -
            you can place several wherever you need them, and they'll
            act like additional ethernet ports. I like the TP-Link gear,
            and units with a pass-through power port and a couple of
            ports are wicked handy.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div>In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have
              "upgraded" from the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti
              mesh link, which yields about 150-200Mbit of actual
              throughput. If you are truly only 300' from one building
              to the other, I think you'll not have any trouble linking
              the two locations using 5GHz wireless. The trees will
              attenuate, but you can focus the power available to
              increase your link budget and "burn through" the
              vegetation. I'd look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2
              units (pretty cheap on <a
href="https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-LBE-5AC-GEN2-US-LiteBeam-Wireless-Bridge/dp/B06Y2JH7PV?th=1"
                moz-do-not-send="true">Amazon</a>) - they'll get you
              somewhere around 250-300Mbit of throughput with 80MHz
              channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield better
              reliability if that balance needs to be struck. They have
              about a 12 degree beamwidth, so they're pretty forgiving
              with your aim, but the available power is focused where
              you want it.</div>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding,
            I had the service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons
            that escape me right now - didn't run any fiber. I regret
            that, and intend to order a pre-made 6-strand OS3 fiber
            cable and pull it through this summer. I'll light it up at
            1Gbit (for the moment). With LC connectors on each end of
            the fiber, the ethernet switches and mini-GBIC units needed
            to turn it into conventional copper ethernet are cheap, and
            I don't worry about my ham radio RF or lightning strikes
            acting on a big copper ethernet line like an antenna.
            LANShack is who I'm looking at for the fiber, by the way.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is
            your ethernet maximum (100m). If you go that route, I'd go
            with Cat6, and I'd put it in flexible conduit, guessing that
            you don't already have conduit in place. You don't really
            even need to worry about putting it below the frost line -
            goodness knows that Cox (our local coax cable company) and
            Verizon FiOS don't. That said, I would suggest calling your
            local utility marking outfit before you dig.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Happy to talk further!<br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>-Peter (independent IT guy, radio amateur)</div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 6:02
            PM john niolon &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex;
            BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px
            0.8ex">
            <div>
              <div><font face="Segoe UI">I'm trying to get some
                  'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop
                  building... just a shade too far for cable access 
                  (just under 300 feet of cable) and too many obstacles
                  for wireless</font></div>
              <div><font face="Segoe UI">\even with an extender...
                  looking at powerline units...  two boxes...modem plugs
                  into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box
                  plugs into any other plug on same</font></div>
              <div><font face="Segoe UI">breaker box and the laptop
                  plugs into it with cat-5-cable..   </font></div>
              <div> </div>
              <div><font face="Segoe UI">anyone have any experienced
                  with this type service ??</font></div>
              <div> </div>
              <div><font face="Segoe UI">example:</font></div>
              <div> </div>
              <div><font face="Segoe UI"><a
href="https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&amp;_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&amp;epid=1186426581"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&amp;_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amp;amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&amp;epid=1186426581</a></font></div>
              <div> </div>
              <div><font face="Segoe UI">thanks</font></div>
              <div><font face="Segoe UI">john</font></div>
            </div>
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          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________

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