From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 2 13:50:13 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAF33A0B7A for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2022 13:50:13 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from relay11.mail.gandi.net (unknown [217.70.178.231]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D38AA0AF3 for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2022 13:49:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by relay11.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E2497100005 for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2022 20:49:58 +0000 (UTC) From: Jim Franklin Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 15:49:56 -0500 To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Un-warping butcher block countertop? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I have an Ikea desktop made with solid 1" square lengths of who knows what wood. Probably birch or beech. It's 30 x 60 and exactly an inch thick. I don't see the product on their website anymore but it looks a lot like this: https://www.instructables.com/Butcher-block-countertop-table-IKEA-hack/ I gave it to a friend who turned it into a guest bed with 4 short legs. I (200 lbs) slept on it for a few weeks. There are 2 metal straps underneath to hold the glued joints together. Fast forward 6 months and I have it again and am using it as a kitchen island countertop, but it has gone concave along the length, as if my weight warped it. I don't think it's a moisture imbalance issue because it's always been open to the air on both sides. I've loosened the metal straps but the wood is still warped. Is this something that will slowly un-warp as the weight of the island base pulls down on it? The base is 2 old bookcases back to back, and I've screwed the countertop to them with L brackets. Currently the lighter bookcase is slighty off the ground, being held up by the warpage. I'd like to eventually bind the two bookcase backs together but I don't want to split the countertop. thanks, jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 2 14:08:36 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE6D1A06C6 for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2022 14:08:36 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from st43p00im-ztbu10073601.me.com (unknown [17.58.63.184]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 746AAA0525 for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2022 14:08:19 -0700 (MST) s=1a1hai; t=1641157699; bh=Ijgv1+awMZm/ZJCh4lAyK2MrLv/H6i6RcMKURem8uLw=; h=Content-Type:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=K6wX4Qp2j1/mOEsCptQeD8xkG4T782YAKVbkNUM8f7Uiuu3bVgeT9hm031Gw38vVM s/aIOOJnhA1bBk//fDIPyOiLr2ZIMohnru6iSKF31aE65BV20e+08Cmho23bYBSmi1 RidD+ZElCefrGlQLA2ZTHOAwaSvksdyeVxxYYTu+jXPIquIMfR1WwSsVDJ5+oiDqR5 d5GngMWKaypJsgLoGNgQL33rSuuJFqlssxBROf6yGYnuzKPE6PGbxN/NqmnNMXrZMF zGsnA9xu2MZhtwprJQOioSFGtDbHKq/iNUtiGPgNXQYSFpu5IKKS01D7B6W4gwYnlz 5uR/CTZEcTvzg== Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [199.38.189.252]) by st43p00im-ztbu10073601.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 91FFE5A0751; Sun, 2 Jan 2022 21:08:18 +0000 (UTC) From: Pat Horne Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 15:08:11 -0600 References: To: Jim Franklin =?UTF-8?Q?2903e8d5c8f:6.0.425,18.0.790,17.0.607.475.0000000_definitions?= =?UTF-8?Q?=3D2022-01-02=5F06:2022-01-01=5F01,2022-01-02=5F06,2020-04-07?= =?UTF-8?Q?=5F01_signatures=3D0?= adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 clxscore=1015 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2201020155 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Un-warping butcher block countertop? Cc: Shop Talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net SSBoYXZlIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIHRob3NlIG9sZGVyIElrZWEgY291bnRlcnRvcHMgdGhhdCBJIHVz ZWQgZm9yIHdvcmsgc3VyZmFjZXMgaW4gbXkgc2hvcCBvZmZpY2UuIEkgc3VwcG9ydGVkIHRoZW0g d2l0aCBsYXJnZSBhbmdsZSBicmFja2V0cyBvbiB0aGUgd2FsbC4gQXMgZmFyIGFzIEkgY2FuIHRl bGwgdGhleSBhcmUgc3RpbGwgZmxhdC4gCgpJZiB5b3UgY2FuIGRvIHdpdGhvdXQgdGhlIHRvcCBp biB0aGUga2l0Y2hlbiBmb3IgYSB3aGlsZSwgc3VwcG9ydCBpdCB1cHNpZGUgZG93biBvbiB0aGUg ZW5kcyBpbiB0aGUgc3VuIGZvciBhIHdoaWxlIHRvIHNlZSBpZiBpdCBjb21lcyBiYWNrIGludG8g c2hhcGUuIEEgcG9zc2libGUgYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmUgd291bGQgYmUgdG8gcHV0IGEgc3VwcG9ydCB1 bmRlciB0aGUgY2VudGVyIG9mIGl0IHdoZW4gcmlnaHQgc2lkZSB1cCAmIHJ1biBhIGNhYmxlIGZy b20gb25lIGVuZCwgdW5kZXIgdGhlIHN1cHBvcnQgJiB0aGVuIHRvIHRoZSBvdGhlciBlbmQuIFVz ZSBhIHR1cm5idWNrbGUgc28geW91IGNhbiBrZWVwIHRoZSBjYWJsZSB0YXVnaHQuIAoKTGFzdCB0 aW1lIEkgd2FzIGluIElrZWEgKGxhc3QgeWVhcikgdGhleSBkaWRu4oCZdCBoYXZlIHRoZSBzb2xp ZCBvbmVzLCBidXQgcGFydGljbGUgYm9hcmQgd2l0aCB2ZW5lZXIuIFdvdWxkIHdvcmsgd2VsbCBp ZiB5b3UgZG9u4oCZdCBuZWVkIHRvIGN1dCBvciByb3V0ZSB2aXNpYmxlIGVkZ2VzIHQmIGhhdmUg cGxlbnR5IG9mIHN1cHBvcnQuIAoKUGVhY2UsClBhdAoKUGF0IEhvcm5lIApXZSBzdXBwb3J0IEhh Yml0YXQgZm9yIEh1bWFuaXR5CgoKT24gSmFuIDIsIDIwMjIsIGF0IDI6NTAgUE0sIEppbSBGcmFu a2xpbiA8amFtZXNmQGdyb3Vwd2JlbmNoLm9yZz4gd3JvdGU6Cgrvu79JIGhhdmUgYW4gSWtlYSBk ZXNrdG9wIG1hZGUgd2l0aCBzb2xpZCAxIiBzcXVhcmUgbGVuZ3RocyBvZiB3aG8ga25vd3Mgd2hh dCB3b29kLiBQcm9iYWJseSBiaXJjaCBvciBiZWVjaC4gSXQncyAzMCB4IDYwIGFuZCBleGFjdGx5 IGFuIGluY2ggdGhpY2suIEkgZG9uJ3Qgc2VlIHRoZSBwcm9kdWN0IG9uIHRoZWlyIHdlYnNpdGUg YW55bW9yZSBidXQgaXQgbG9va3MgYSBsb3QgbGlrZSB0aGlzOgoKaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaW5zdHJ1 Y3RhYmxlcy5jb20vQnV0Y2hlci1ibG9jay1jb3VudGVydG9wLXRhYmxlLUlLRUEtaGFjay8KCkkg Z2F2ZSBpdCB0byBhIGZyaWVuZCB3aG8gdHVybmVkIGl0IGludG8gYSBndWVzdCBiZWQgd2l0aCA0 IHNob3J0IGxlZ3MuIEkgKDIwMCBsYnMpIHNsZXB0IG9uIGl0IGZvciBhIGZldyB3ZWVrcy4gVGhl cmUgYXJlIDIgbWV0YWwgc3RyYXBzIHVuZGVybmVhdGggdG8gaG9sZCB0aGUgZ2x1ZWQgam9pbnRz IHRvZ2V0aGVyLgoKRmFzdCBmb3J3YXJkIDYgbW9udGhzIGFuZCBJIGhhdmUgaXQgYWdhaW4gYW5k IGFtIHVzaW5nIGl0IGFzIGEga2l0Y2hlbiBpc2xhbmQgY291bnRlcnRvcCwgYnV0IGl0IGhhcyBn b25lIGNvbmNhdmUgYWxvbmcgdGhlIGxlbmd0aCwgYXMgaWYgbXkgd2VpZ2h0IHdhcnBlZCBpdC4g SSBkb24ndCB0aGluayBpdCdzIGEgbW9pc3R1cmUgaW1iYWxhbmNlIGlzc3VlIGJlY2F1c2UgaXQn cyBhbHdheXMgYmVlbiBvcGVuIHRvIHRoZSBhaXIgb24gYm90aCBzaWRlcy4gSSd2ZSBsb29zZW5l ZCB0aGUgbWV0YWwgc3RyYXBzIGJ1dCB0aGUgd29vZCBpcyBzdGlsbCB3YXJwZWQuIElzIHRoaXMg c29tZXRoaW5nIHRoYXQgd2lsbCBzbG93bHkgdW4td2FycCBhcyB0aGUgd2VpZ2h0IG9mIHRoZSBp c2xhbmQgYmFzZSBwdWxscyBkb3duIG9uIGl0PyBUaGUgYmFzZSBpcyAyIG9sZCBib29rY2FzZXMg YmFjayB0byBiYWNrLCBhbmQgSSd2ZSBzY3Jld2VkIHRoZSBjb3VudGVydG9wIHRvIHRoZW0gd2l0 aCBMIGJyYWNrZXRzLiBDdXJyZW50bHkgdGhlIGxpZ2h0ZXIgYm9va2Nhc2UgaXMgc2xpZ2h0eSBv ZmYgdGhlIGdyb3VuZCwgYmVpbmcgaGVsZCB1cCBieSB0aGUgd2FycGFnZS4gCgpJJ2QgbGlrZSB0 byBldmVudHVhbGx5IGJpbmQgdGhlIHR3byBib29rY2FzZSBiYWNrcyB0b2dldGhlciBidXQgSSBk b24ndCB3YW50IHRvIHNwbGl0IHRoZSBjb3VudGVydG9wLiAKCnRoYW5rcywKamltCgoKX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KClNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRv eC50ZWFtLm5ldApEb25hdGU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwKU3VnZ2Vz dGVkIGFubnVhbCBkb25hdGlvbiAgJDEyLjk2CkFyY2hpdmU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQv cGlwZXJtYWlsL3Nob3AtdGFsayBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZQoKVW5zdWJz Y3JpYmUvTWFuYWdlOiBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3At dGFsay9wYXRpbnRleGFzQGljbG91ZC5jb20KCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCgpTaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQKRG9uYXRlOiBodHRw Oi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L2RvbmF0ZS5odG1sClN1Z2dlc3RlZCBhbm51YWwgZG9uYXRpb24gICQx Mi45NgpBcmNoaXZlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L3BpcGVybWFpbC9zaG9wLXRhbGsgaHR0 cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L2FyY2hpdmUKClVuc3Vic2NyaWJlL01hbmFnZTogaHR0cDovL2F1 dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L21haWxtYW4vb3B0aW9ucy9zaG9wLXRhbGsvbWhhcmNAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5u ZXQKCg== From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 10 10:12:48 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD7AA053F for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:12:48 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic301-35.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (unknown [66.163.184.204]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF4BDA06F8 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:12:32 -0700 (MST) t=1641834752; bh=9xQigt9hcwR8PxdfDLxoOgpvOSwz8cilCPrcsgFGjj8=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=x+Aus0Ta26EnNhoaMM/FT/Av5aQFMqf3YcI0CTfiWXbx1Z/cAlsRcrAvMTtICKLyvP6N/QBuSXYEi2LvlpDDr+BVT+rDzNmV59k6NHaQuqpqiFK1Juh0kVm6oUmGPb+bdZuxCBg6QyGbiBHb1uT6IreAydLcZ+zCTLBTIMBRNRw= t=1641834752; bh=2CURkYaXwDQcoCVDcT26V5vD3G9tQd8uHtxDcSQEU8F=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=buYEBKdiXN0Mt2qU64i8TOXP/tTbd2idCZ6TURl9QrFT8jzV3j1nLNp5+HB88jff0X+cWjw4cvFEc0g8IW8zoeAJ2QTUkEh/tWzOlf7M4tJVi1En13YEQh22Pu31L6ff5+TkQJDF91lOoWH6utyfkqj9Du0R3+kbHgQEdRmp7ChfFV2wEJJjNTjdh8CJiPCdHt4PzwfY1GrlSmBqg9XmEvx20AtOHG35CsQOJwgjYb1wz7NbrMmVE5ccXn6aalfZOx/w+51H1JFazY1Vcaceo8jcPqk5zC4numAmjf4ax8JdalNPSrnZtqgcJeVQdvrVI3QBA5hVp5CN5Snj+GxwaQ== JAKI0ydWencClWWnGC9VPplEJmnUVH0TNu.KD8c4HGxghE3zvEU_OvO6kdmEXXZmUm5Pkz2M0NGH F_kq2G3B3kSVaLyrnTiyxoZcKLV7VORPjtiSupS9Y5IKdse1k8k_yS9d20YzyUT8SjiXfEsT0RHU kJj_ggsqFva6tlZ25t.zvhDleXLYry3pZW3bx.9bAAAQY0LyUDR5E.U7iaFrW._6bzK25UVYxGRd Iq1s.QBjwrHXcCYjJUgW4RQbCVCNlfu9GsOKypBniogH8csCCgkqDv2IwFvLfk62jZJbx1GU4d2A EysGSBZ6FhW4mYSr8pL2nJ0j4ZImPS_E2zRcRB94UDDD2hH7jnoexxp_vK5lb_2Du5zIh3tCFwOx mtqaM3kj484YM8vBMed0EbACI22F7uSigkGvoXy2k1Lgzdkh6eM4xmXmbI2gEUgotIwi36fNwXnS 17q.fiOqt67MxWLjXAtE7KVa6NTqe0mQlMUGdGW6.qOB69mspvnrrMvL02Xsu48hrTK09FzSW1uR eYZajDuhj_R31FlcmFv3CzoEhbKKeknA0rhmZUKgaXpiC4UkwDvyT4Oi3K0Z_chpeyIikhq7rOBk eIXL8YdrN7RFgprCPXpSUhW.qmGEPIY7bVlCpgvNrbGQ_62xJAR1unzv1Lc0Qw_eOoIfoIYmVMG6 mKIDRjXvW5kK1hN30a2pPMkvgJgP9ub5MEvG2B6Kbx0BcUZBmNiHjieWUhrxzXIibvP_MuVz2Hqn wLg3kYVjHEwXJ3p9CbD_hwhp3eQUFj.jceoo88GInfULQU62AdzbWoRELgvaOKE1ujOecT.V.Coq PTvYeDDTHE30YqFUfIKt51fVGjcqd1qy.M7cI4uwhvgSAz3X96NLBPeetK7H7GsLAqrdF9POLfSu 27DBUpdPqi8ouTPCn.xVeYP.zOH1.gz7inZocLRpDcPivENF6nnfATElDkhCctFfBqgsb9b9uDO6 UeJS56WRRLUnQ4Yez9oCVHJ5AnAqViVO9Bp7A79ugDkEvRjtFXGjgDSCJGOZw5GjRkZNu_RLNor2 dFH_YJsNfdFbRHRjC5s5CvxJy2PQZFRzcS0PuwgN0JhYbCIxNELpe5aHas.K4uxBd7CrTrqYLtL. Zip4P33oze.V0F7AvmGP5s9F4waApSDmEweoIZ_WgozXpHbFUCJY41xAnmWNzNgzgsaaV2Lwo9XY F3pe8JA1pkzhz2I7WBegisOqqmodEKLHhI4QQ5j_1FWX1PkvAdPklTwXM_UehksuFdG7uevdMuZw zYSaO247VMiPRmNMUBbRTiH_QRfz23hvANhZ3BJndNBvVY9mltqQdhb93uP7vB3kN9v.2E0s2Yh2 X84jRbJqC0.P.LmVoAg1qQoyxZBnPOdgAGPbY..HGtr2w4FyoQHdp1f2hzOAyNKk8qlD00P6O.j6 P3ytPkVqa25hMaOTgz7oZj4cs7uFC3UjpDtYGuRRcuFXSrXoAldWG104FDWWtMrSkgKQVkdlQ4Xg uLGAgH5y7etv4I4jlyV17mOMVVY.tAijkVitULk92wLxIgkzM4Sq2390eas5Vy_azivV5e_NkMoW 4CaN6PNSks6eAc_PFPa45gLtvPKQnD3D0kxFU5fMiXAocH9zgvxB0g1OJS96R5tZqELOQfhuoeCZ F_i2E6AQkQpKA1NAX44jPN_2EqTfTBmKvCoNyhq2aVJOjBoGNSAFxfmE0hSe9m90EBidbxkmnNJ5 bCFcqKWDSIz2AG2PeC3VbTn807CzUNM7GLKsEINjDVHEgVevRc0b6ehT5PBehSSRlhbj2uSm5fPl IPF4qqgbP0njN.kadkmCiYB1btFAgRzPRW5VQmymZCr15PLXqKZ5VzEShZAXLhJnF57vuIRW.smY ubiQcEKsfN7rg4d_2JcV66uN6Hn2_qGfsXwYQl_Riu1J5gB.YOSlRpqPwkSLFUiR02z_VuepnbD_ SxyusTef06c8a9bCg2HiMvnLrP1GxKLdPlMV2ZocEsTIkT0mUNuH5ednRBnXHTUa5UureeFTNSk8 8FfQvwDJHYx_CbSifkM__VBblHTbZOWnL9hl7DZaccfL0ueCuZc7fRx4aAfAROc7weBkYdVLnOEh xI81IHFvcmOfu_XRd.P4GzMzQ_.K930VSgTpDrvf28xoMCfEcufJ7OB2xrkIvFm63d6hAB_KakGk eVTJTBieJ2cC6SvrTulqOcuh_Lgwtag-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 17:12:32 +0000 Received: by kubenode505.mail-prod1.omega.bf1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 72d4dc2ce9915e6a579def72edb9c710; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 17:12:29 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:12:27 -0600 From: "john niolon" To: "shop-talk" User-Agent: OEClassic/3.2.43 (Win10.19043; P; 2021-12-21) References: <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg.ref@johns-desktop> mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Subject: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format --===============2143775138777892162== This is a multi-part message in MIME format --qKtxi7nwqEBzm2D=_8WOlBkZgGsJMBo3S6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' led = tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory = has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or lost= =2E.. Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web s= ite is a joke anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up either with= or without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted bulbs...b= ut now sure thanks john --qKtxi7nwqEBzm2D=_8WOlBkZgGsJMBo3S6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Couple of years ago I bought a box of Uti= litech t81636f16-40...4' led tubes...redid all my shop lights and was = pleased with them
 
now I want to add some fixtures in anothe= r part of shop and my memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixt= ures to make them work
but can remember what I did and instructi= on sheet is long gone or lost...
 
Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now dis= continued and Utilitech web site is a joke    anyone te= ll me how to wire these bulbs up either with or
without ballast..,....seems I remember th= ey were non shunted bulbs...but now sure
 
thanks
john
--qKtxi7nwqEBzm2D=_8WOlBkZgGsJMBo3S6-- --===============2143775138777892162== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2143775138777892162==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 10 10:24:29 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD5DFA0958 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:24:29 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from st43p00im-ztfb10061701.me.com (unknown [17.58.63.172]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA6D8A08F3 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:22:07 -0700 (MST) s=1a1hai; t=1641835327; bh=H+spuLuVhP4xOBj3lDjrp4k6T2YMRikLfzHYOZHt9xI=; h=Content-Type:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=x0QOKNugJ5VATOnA1tudfkncs4yFU6EicI5rVQrXZZKrDfXoXWnSGfOffMQltMTzn nlvNjK2eLaB86gBy6r7vZmx0Xr+LEty4mg1bZBHSVXg6mKKqFzvUWxE8n/JKvWAZkM vVg9L2slv3+XqqB2C9SSkUFCYc3p90Ke0x04Tv/FXWj18MXxUNsTSVOh0iVh+dp38g 8tQJYXhJxRdW3/MQhvjZw2UPWozMuocMnKyqwWtyet20EH6VJtCpMbuee6sbCTQfYX Wtte/Yke5KeEK5iWLj4WDR7eTYQsa8JhcAR84iFXtacLGYGq/9HtkTFgiAObjoyd+Y q5qvNfJnJ6jRw== Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [199.38.189.252]) by st43p00im-ztfb10061701.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D2B342E09B4; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 17:22:06 +0000 (UTC) From: Pat Horne Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:22:04 -0600 References: <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg@johns-desktop> To: john niolon definitions=2022-01-10_07:2022-01-10, 2022-01-10 signatures=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2009150000 definitions=main-2201100118 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0308375073498551872== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-A65E9108-3A8A-48EF-8E34-AA88D26923C8 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John, I=E2=80=99m not familiar with Utilitec lamps, but the LED tube lamps I have c= ontacts on one end only & wire directly to the power.=20 If you haven=E2=80=99t purchased your fixtures yet, check out Prime Lights i= n Austin TX. I installed 10 of their 3 lamp BOLT fixtures in my shop & love t= hem. Current price is $82/fixture, $74 if you buy 12.=20 Pat Horne=20 We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 10, 2022, at 11:13 AM, john niolon wrote: =EF=BB=BF Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' led tubes.= ..redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them =20 now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory has fa= iled... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or lost... =20 Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web site is= a joke anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up either with or without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted bulbs...but now= sure =20 thanks john _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi= ve as@icloud.com --Apple-Mail-A65E9108-3A8A-48EF-8E34-AA88D26923C8 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John,

I=E2=80=99m not fa= miliar with Utilitec lamps, but the LED tube lamps I have contacts on one en= d only & wire directly to the power. 

If y= ou haven=E2=80=99t purchased your fixtures yet, check out Prime Lights in Au= stin TX. I installed 10 of their 3 lamp BOLT fixtures in my shop & love t= hem. Current price is $82/fixture, $74 if you buy 12. 

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Jan 10, 2022, at 11:13 AM, john niolon <j= niolon@att.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech= t81636f16-40...4' led tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with= them
 
now I want to add some fixtures in another part= of shop and my memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make= them work
but can remember what I did and instruction she= et is long gone or lost...
 
Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontin= ued and Utilitech web site is a joke    anyone tell me how to= wire these bulbs up either with or
without ballast..,....seems I remember they wer= e non shunted bulbs...but now sure
 
thanks
john
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.= net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.tea= m.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://au= tox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com

= --Apple-Mail-A65E9108-3A8A-48EF-8E34-AA88D26923C8-- --===============0308375073498551872== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0308375073498551872==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 10 10:26:00 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E016A0B74 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:26:00 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic316-23.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (unknown [66.163.187.149]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02199A0869 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:25:43 -0700 (MST) t=1641835543; bh=IaGQU5rP38VjvDTKRn+bpoL68/7utwlNcaS/G514kfs=; h=References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:To:Subject:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=AMmgxjqCHhgbA6JGZFgL4lLpoO8a9qXJPC8zXGfp1rxDARRUvkrhJ8VKFmbNLtxPWja+k8gmqVoQgmQLi9gs17fbG1BwUzhlB+SLcrbXuxb85cZh42zsOIWBgy3vPBf5sNHTEIiCNIBC0038CJhEknBOzG8U0aNJErBs/guUNqI= t=1641835543; bh=CBKYKPq1jv3ptZcq9Vn/IxPAglzMdQh/s/5hlpOXgOt=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=Mm43MLIkj//zsDbuj0TniGed/OR4ptOYHW+sd9LNxgHXEjR1WZgF6c1sf73JQtBl9p25hGI7Bw8pm2l8JUKShBNPj3jjRg2nwaN/OgE/Gi4M4bf3IkS7Oc0Y9GXkkJNSQHA4Igi5/In8ztEhxp5hx5CxPUiKPh7QXzbqEJ8WMyxuXDwmYm8xmNRgyu35CestY8BeTCvd8trwLUteOVYv8V1LTiTwNYotWre/57JUZNCtjlpNBwScnTuywTGbMkamJrVoomBVmB9eXOvlx8qijLNyAytcNjZ6Zhkj+qsKz4Mxg121OwwVfpNpeyYcAMEA1KoH3fywcQjuUNeMSQDhQQ== q8ApHFh5Ctg59BYYhD0WjPMHKVy3KbZKtD79URgi404YaMiPboWkWJa9XzREIOCHDQr8firD.NgN eolmw6ukOGbvgc5eHQK2ZDf.cDb4_3Ci05yD.rzgihxn16MVDwFWZds6t7nBAzA7ShMWKXONDOma PH.Tg_KY0H8BTs6ht1MMC.NSjR9e_i9pc5ULbLM1ppPqfRL0OKr55aMPodp2dabA27hVKSc0ltGu 3hgcQeydJCA9n2usdUHXBQWm69dZsn4jPQdNt2nnWSQi9UhnEuc0HHkqPjcZ_5gH2S3XBjxwS.wn 9zW9tBhUKHUH_RD_IWnkaksljTw50puwEQwQqjVNAY6LkNrtyD1r2m1AsiYIQqW5JgumzIDFZ5s4 9H7XJs7bl5UWKwozno8zSsSXABcb7884uytCkTbD86C1qmWR.o5frxmW_gVh_xz6Ka9xeeV2ptms TqRzgrfbBUhuOTauaLoClu5G1lu37d9pArxN6qeZ.NX3G45.u2opxy6tV_LXn9oO6EIz_aVswc4N Yo.0nRAARCVhXmcz5bq6tJAbKedWwmZJGlNcsKVyzpPMHdV5cgm9RFXrcy8GsoOQ3CGkumLI172x qPWvG4MZcIZlPXFvJuJeZG5p5z0k56egU6fDCDu3146XHg.hK5vSKqXtSLWxA2W1mnTX7KHz6Who 7dBX.bL6YmdUDTS_EN6F.DIqleGvicSi_xNn5sGrgS_nmOfoX4WroD9Cu__hOBJCVzNlbbaFcIEg weTs5HoGzI.tz5rbru6guOnS6tD1f5t5eKYHgqMVi2bEk6GGT4b5HufLq9LfAjrUVdZ30nDh.L2s Eoraww7vdzoB0FIynCeNIFMVsYluQ_HJs7.BqacTsgD1w9qlLHLw7gVKooV8rVPBxGHPrz8fQo3m mFN83aBh8P2eaZLkqda6BbZFfNyayQlhW4lMRnaiAjovo5pekvrcx1BohoI_dp3OXZkFWFPLTUEl S.NXb.yu8xlLKXOmm9zERnuaVpyCcsfvkSCeKXQ8VFtt37TPFHKhCeAMVGGUCCsPybTi_xDOVd5h heFZbX.s364LC2P5spFDA2YW4cYUXA9Wjgk2b6mzB.KtaU4Pb01DqSPt0vaUzFpktkOGpM3PsuUu DQAMOyEqg1wcxNZYHejQ6Z.RJQthVnFV.o4d9LCYvDASVHUf.QEmdvZ.tcFcrp.0XPlXSRtWgyvC XaUEp5Lntw5yBrcKRMYXcajdSQWKlGSuM2M9mtk1ixqI5_ST.LjKjuVeZxYrmvJl7SYFmO.aX2M9 41Dsc93_YgXalMpTKGtu5p31Br1TMOtCCGMjEvRVEh9tmZ6r9Rk4xV9Kyt5fJlvSOZyOFSB_bmeP 5TQ731yGkPiD.E7GTAiUOtqT5LVz9lS1sfbhbP5tTm.p3M1Cl3Jq5dU0sDBV3fwT4EzJTkOJBt5a f1dLj7F6bOsD4zls2OtFI7Dk3SQiUI1wPM9l_vgWT7iJAdTZ9NcysA5TdJ92DA9YDHVW9KBQ.72Y sV69Jh8lBQuzEkmWg6iHM5MiKv0FhO16YIiEtBWMeg9H3iqtKXwnEs5N4_nRHEHOuCHtqSF12ZG0 O3qncPci7g.wK44an8feiiHQDdBVtrfM50uG_W3E3Pb7HCpvIFtbGmfKjMCKbbiNcYglhpo07dYG YRGBlTbcTzimAlAoaKYtPxixVJ7l_1TkCbkuAXByLrgLRzQBfEouw8.rdmaNmYpKvbjP0CNrXYss J3Pm9GFnDeI7yB9l1jGMEes_xAibQvyZs0_CniBjezxTVjGizmg1eCCNs.jQFQR..BlN5Z0__mXh dZSrwA3FzQ8SzErhDUFymCMa3HO9yi862opeZRHV1sxsysv0wTeAi72_jceu4tERqCkri49u.3yL 8Mv96yvM03czF4GBRPxHOJlN9blfw.CfplaAJQNh7I7sob5RJxWsSGlrN90NLenA7C9yyhtp4PBv iOXengU6e8bZ1Sn9OPTkX6L1bBVqDji0EHu8o6P91iV0njPerLG93okRiITDX7TyRDksjRqgPBjj guwHvPxDhVcz7WrIAWekOVL0yQ.hXaXHGgMBFJNFFOFlbAB7iQqUfGIsXPX8Cxtz0T71RaSog8w1 G4ItoGPKKjGlXCfAOos8Cu5_24j3PyseDZzFGvig8yg91E0zH5ODiN2fSarrcmEKYMS1ugR2v6E_ xBug0JN2l8lQ_PrVNWT3eRbz08imvwYVbzrCFQM8JddLl74Y- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic316.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 17:25:43 +0000 Received: by kubenode527.mail-prod1.omega.gq1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID e62fcd26f4fb3fddead2f586ebe6943d; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 17:25:39 +0000 (UTC) References: <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg@johns-desktop> <7DD61772-84D7-4344-A2A2-8635B5398A23@icloud.com> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:25:36 -0600 From: "john niolon" To: "Pat Horne" , "shop-talk" User-Agent: OEClassic/3.2.43 (Win10.19043; P; 2021-12-21) mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format --===============8058313399293120465== This is a multi-part message in MIME format --Yey5sXRpKAUNJsFJyJu5=_ZO1iNY3jUFXC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline well Pat, that's another part of the problem...I have several older 4'= fixtures=20 I'm trying to rewire for this project...I'm cheap I've opened three and all of them are wired differently=20 j ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat Horne To: john niolon Cc: shop-talk Sent: 1/10/2022 11:22:04 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory John, I=E2=80=99m not familiar with Utilitec lamps, but the LED tube lamps I= have contacts on one end only & wire directly to the power.=20 If you haven=E2=80=99t purchased your fixtures yet, check out Prime Li= ghts in Austin TX. I installed 10 of their 3 lamp BOLT fixtures in my = shop & love them. Current price is $82/fixture, $74 if you buy 12.=20 Pat Horne=20 We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 10, 2022, at 11:13 AM, john niolon wrote: =EF=BB=BF=20 Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4'=20 led tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory = has=20 failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or lost= =2E.. Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web s= ite is a=20 joke anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up either with or without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted bulbs...b= ut now=20 sure thanks john _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net= /archive talk/patintexas@icloud.com --Yey5sXRpKAUNJsFJyJu5=_ZO1iNY3jUFXC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
well Pat, that's another part of the prob= lem...I have several older 4' fixtures I'm trying to rewire for this p= roject...I'm cheap
I've opened three and all of them are wir= ed differently
j
 
= patintexas@icloud.com>
jniolo= n@att.net>
shop-talk@autox.team.net>
John,

I=E2=80=99m not familiar with Utilitec lamps, but the LED tube la= mps I have contacts on one end only & wire directly to the power.&= nbsp;

If you haven=E2=80=99t purchased your fixtures yet, check out Pri= me Lights in Austin TX. I installed 10 of their 3 lamp BOLT fixtures i= n my shop & love them. Current price is $82/fixture, $74 if you bu= y 12. 

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Jan 10, 2022, at 11:13 AM, john niolon <jniol= on@att.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20
Couple of years ago I bought a box of Uti= litech t81636f16-40...4' led tubes...redid all my shop lights and was = pleased with them
 
now I want to add some fixtures in anothe= r part of shop and my memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixt= ures to make them work
but can remember what I did and instructi= on sheet is long gone or lost...
 
Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now dis= continued and Utilitech web site is a joke    anyone te= ll me how to wire these bulbs up either with or
without ballast..,....seems I remember th= ey were non shunted bulbs...but now sure
 
thanks
john
__________________= _____________________________

Shop-ta= lk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.h= tml
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
<= SPAN>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.tea= m.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: htt= p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com

--Yey5sXRpKAUNJsFJyJu5=_ZO1iNY3jUFXC-- --===============8058313399293120465== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8058313399293120465==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 10 10:31:56 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 849ABA0B20 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:31:56 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from st43p00im-zteg10073401.me.com (unknown [17.58.63.181]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55DC6A0571 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:31:44 -0700 (MST) s=1a1hai; t=1641835903; bh=QTn/LqBLW15xMvhM5p2qFL2/zXIsKLATBcED8ONwcfc=; h=Content-Type:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=onLunjpq4zYLEEr30ObJ1PPtOhoh1xMUhsnJ40v6VKh6DZZk9hR4xF7kGWAZXXclx 0o08VxsZ3oEjAxzRH6dCWGIAaT19dJehOlShqwQSZP/bwmqeAOcj74GHsTMdXgilbi 0C6X0R8MK3hTz1w7iAEHxzEgYfzTnnztKmvJHejQXFdFmA6CN/dAUcXBQrrX/Pw/vF KRIGVOe/+3gARCPUEDZSvaXQtIicatvuaNPkEmMHjk4bCD/GcSf6ZeAfg+oT/X+oTj lm7wHNUVv3EZkULkeTC9luC8T24Aef3SQlR/vQlChaC6Rb+Y3n2sHP5WC8dm0b0W93 o2t9wEsTb8JLg== Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [199.38.189.252]) by st43p00im-zteg10073401.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6E4CCA81765; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 17:31:43 +0000 (UTC) From: Pat Horne Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:31:41 -0600 References: <1UbiNPVKS0.cQcqSCzfHtN@johns-desktop> To: john niolon =?UTF-8?Q?2903e8d5c8f:6.0.425,18.0.790,17.11.62.513.0000000_definitions?= =?UTF-8?Q?=3D2022-01-10=5F06:2022-01-10=5F01,2022-01-10=5F06,2021-12-02?= =?UTF-8?Q?=5F01_signatures=3D0?= clxscore=1015 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2201100119 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1511391371534419004== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-73D3762E-31A0-479C-9A5E-430E1656A164 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable PrimeLights also sells just the lamps, no ballast bypass, $21.50 (single lam= p)& gut-the-fixture lamps for $12 each but only in case of 30.=20 Peace, Pat Pat Horne=20 We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 10, 2022, at 11:25 AM, john niolon wrote: =EF=BB=BF well Pat, that's another part of the problem...I have several older 4' fixtu= res I'm trying to rewire for this project...I'm cheap I've opened three and all of them are wired differently j =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat Horne To: john niolon Cc: shop-talk Sent: 1/10/2022 11:22:04 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory John, I=E2=80=99m not familiar with Utilitec lamps, but the LED tube lamps I have c= ontacts on one end only & wire directly to the power.=20 If you haven=E2=80=99t purchased your fixtures yet, check out Prime Lights i= n Austin TX. I installed 10 of their 3 lamp BOLT fixtures in my shop & love t= hem. Current price is $82/fixture, $74 if you buy 12.=20 Pat Horne=20 We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 10, 2022, at 11:13 AM, john niolon wrote: =EF=BB=BF Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' led tubes.= ..redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them =20 now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory has fa= iled... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or lost... =20 Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web site is= a joke anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up either with or without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted bulbs...but now= sure =20 thanks john _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi= ve as@icloud.com --Apple-Mail-73D3762E-31A0-479C-9A5E-430E1656A164 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable PrimeLights also sells just the lamps, no b= allast bypass, $21.50 (single lamp)& gut-the-fixture lamps for $12 each b= ut only in case of 30. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Jan 10, 2022, at 11:25 AM, john niolon <j= niolon@att.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
well Pat, that's another part of the problem...= I have several older 4' fixtures I'm trying to rewire for this project...I'm= cheap
I've opened three and all of them are wired dif= ferently
j
 
-= ---- Original Message -----
From:= Pat Horne <patintexas@iclou= d.com>
T= o: john niolon <jniolon@att.net>
S= ent: 1/10/2022 11:22:04 AM
S= ubject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory
John,

I=E2=80=99m not familiar with Utilitec lamps, but the LED tube lamps I h= ave contacts on one end only & wire directly to the power. 

If you haven=E2=80=99t purchased your fixtures yet, check out Prime Lig= hts in Austin TX. I installed 10 of their 3 lamp BOLT fixtures in my shop &a= mp; love them. Current price is $82/fixture, $74 if you buy 12. 
Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Jan 10, 2022, at 11:13 AM, john niolon <jniolon@a= tt.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20
Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech= t81636f16-40...4' led tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with= them
 
now I want to add some fixtures in another part= of shop and my memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make= them work
but can remember what I did and instruction she= et is long gone or lost...
 
Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontin= ued and Utilitech web site is a joke    anyone tell me how to= wire these bulbs up either with or
without ballast..,....seems I remember they wer= e non shunted bulbs...but now sure
 
thanks
john
________________________= _______________________

Shop-talk@autox.tea= m.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www= .team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
=
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/s= hop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com

= --Apple-Mail-73D3762E-31A0-479C-9A5E-430E1656A164-- --===============1511391371534419004== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1511391371534419004==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 10 11:08:40 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5574A06DA for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:08:40 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ua1-f49.google.com (unknown [209.85.222.49]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D4D0A0481 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:08:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ua1-f49.google.com with SMTP id y4so25049390uad.1 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:08:23 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Sfk72Qp6+ylE6MGiDg0BLukh1ZnxS28iENzFTrkCY7E=; b=qelSod2vQg5DXpOCRra5AxoZhM0kMdw7vVQFaOLTd0B+uZCiCe5HntNs++gPOKjGJv j2RF4R3fnRT2jLY1W6N8TDXhQ6EPJw/yw/pmeX5Kmu1/WOpbkPIk7rx+e/RiDQ4780GT HZIa/0WacAbNFbhSRmu7kyRwNCILZlr/eRK3sEo07a0g8tO9oE8OVVJchH5YMlXpfC8I gueQxCHfNyv29XrzUB+8Pby/ZymtaC2eOKDWhO1fc//iRnMuaxWI7Yt+JAMAG20ogBry u/Q2s8AOH5LkLlhUnI+0zhc0cDGh9sWFfxOgmd0tcgnx+6yg7fWhe4t/tmDhDZaWy4gn IcuA== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Sfk72Qp6+ylE6MGiDg0BLukh1ZnxS28iENzFTrkCY7E=; b=DXjlLht0NvU5N9tRCcOGakybFM+eLlAPwxSPmGXMkNOjiexqQ8H55K8YBq1RSkyqa7 UHNu+Zs356FbTuBKjIJ39cO79TwoOc84pZZjJpIxhyAUXkghIVBN7wunCoBVqCYS2ZKZ mi4tZmn3B/ezG1IFQNOHIjpdxJW+e6UZL/7h4wK2K7ym05Yta2cGzB+5EZfUuVVmcWta eTcxfa7HFjjZvVZJg/j0A/AsdFwqN1H9TsRSciMC2rjJ+3HIFyQM4+YRNkDzOQPQoCE3 jdK59PFkWWkt4NzWAi4fluguQcMLLDlg43LFQudYNwpCH2EHfZ6iprDYvKc8w4JXCfrn PI2Q== CnXBhBS/eP89td293Ic0a8Pj37bbqD1kE/WT2vI= Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:08:22 -0800 (PST) References: <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg@johns-desktop> From: Jeff Scarbrough Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 13:08:09 -0500 To: john niolon , "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0886902485013281725== --000000000000e3fe5305d53e3837 John, Your tubes should be marked with the operating voltage on one end or the other. If they're like most modern LED replacements, they'll be set to work at 120 volts on one end. All you have to do is wire the lamp power hot and neutral to one tombstone. You could always open up one of your old fixtures and see what you did with it. On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 12:13 john niolon wrote: > Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' led > tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them > > now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory has > failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work > but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or lost... > > Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web site > is a joke anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up either with or > without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted bulbs...but > now sure > > thanks > john > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com > > --000000000000e3fe5305d53e3837 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
John,

Your t= ubes should be marked with the operating voltage on one end or the other. I= f they're like most modern LED replacements, they'll be set to work= at 120 volts on one end. All you have to do is wire the lamp power hot and= neutral to one tombstone.

You could always open up one of your old fixtures and see what you did w= ith it.

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 12:13 john niolon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:
Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitec= h t81636f16-40...4' led tubes...redid all my shop lights and was please= d with them
=C2=A0
now I want to add some fixtures in another par= t of shop and my memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to ma= ke them work
but can remember what I did and instruction sh= eet is long gone or lost...
=C2=A0
Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now disconti= nued and Utilitech web site is a joke=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 anyone tell me how = to wire these bulbs up either with or
without ballast..,....seems I remember they we= re non shunted bulbs...but now sure
=C2=A0
thanks
john
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
errer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

alk/fishplate@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht= tp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com

--000000000000e3fe5305d53e3837-- --===============0886902485013281725== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0886902485013281725==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 10 11:39:48 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7130A0AA3 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:39:48 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-c1p-023462.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.102.19.34]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 556CEA09F2 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:39:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-c1p-023413.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.18.230]) by resqmta-c1p-023462.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 6ucznZJ3nRSaf6zZpn4ey6; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 18:39:29 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1641839969; bh=d7WW9Dn3w7xXLTLQuIGQubR4TqAqOwZZxTIT3/RN12I=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From; b=YdTsbgpVHQmyBo5ikdGmTqpeUwhSDm+7GPBbZi1JSpkNj30oqCDDO1EkkSmmP2r4D /ATEyJJB8eZjOkyPhp5flruyKTezb02MSyrM8p8IqwnC7QDfT8mCHjbqXahUOY0qAP Ena2nvyfaHfpY7TI1RFjM5A9dM+jadkg8PFYn39kZaFBlm62K6n6XNSiQ9oxWJ/spQ A2UTEb9ytgawtUWvw2UneY96n510elYngqH4d8eIV3/xZiYeR+KccxyvXnly3Oewa+ a6mrZX9SZSn/p/nlz+ifbLJPrErkCJC2FKF5hgUk7NYBl0rmzrrPqpLLKoGoNzd5yL 27tZ6y545F6Ew== Received: from [192.168.1.120] ([104.153.206.37]) by resomta-c1p-023413.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id 6zZgn90z0uTGe6zZin4cLP; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 18:39:27 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:39:19 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.4.1 Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg@johns-desktop> <7DD61772-84D7-4344-A2A2-8635B5398A23@icloud.com> <1UbiNPVKS0.cQcqSCzfHtN@johns-desktop> From: Bob Spidell Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============6310247741021100245== boundary="------------BFyYSe3A6ESow6Gv0XPY3J0o" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BFyYSe3A6ESow6Gv0XPY3J0o Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I re-wired 4 fluorescents in mom's kitchen for LEDs a few years ago. I bought new ballasts for them, then replaced with LED can lights this year. I've always wondered whether I needed the ballasts or not, all the 'documentation' is pretty confusing. There must be some LED strips that need ballasts, and some that don't? On 1/10/2022 9:25 AM, john niolon wrote: > well Pat, that's another part of the problem...I have several older 4' > fixtures I'm trying to rewire for this project...I'm cheap > I've opened three and all of them are wired differently > j > > *----- Original Message -----* > *From:* Pat Horne > *To:* john niolon > *Cc:* shop-talk > *Sent:* 1/10/2022 11:22:04 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > John, > > I’m not familiar with Utilitec lamps, but the LED tube lamps I > have contacts on one end only & wire directly to the power. > > If you haven’t purchased your fixtures yet, check out Prime Lights > in Austin TX. I installed 10 of their 3 lamp BOLT fixtures in my > shop & love them. Current price is $82/fixture, $74 if you buy 12. > > Pat Horne > We support Habitat for Humanity > > > On Jan 10, 2022, at 11:13 AM, john niolon wrote: > >  > Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' > led tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them > now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my > memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work > but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or > lost... > Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech > web site is a joke anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up > either with or > without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted > bulbs...but now sure > thanks > john > --------------BFyYSe3A6ESow6Gv0XPY3J0o Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I re-wired 4 fluorescents in mom's kitchen for LEDs a few years ago. I bought new ballasts for them, then replaced with LED can lights this year. I've always wondered whether I needed the ballasts or not, all the 'documentation' is pretty confusing. There must be some LED strips that need ballasts, and some that don't?


On 1/10/2022 9:25 AM, john niolon wrote:
well Pat, that's another part of the problem...I have several older 4' fixtures I'm trying to rewire for this project...I'm cheap
I've opened three and all of them are wired differently
j
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Horne <patintexas@icloud.com>
To: john niolon <jniolon@att.net>
Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Sent: 1/10/2022 11:22:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory
John,

I’m not familiar with Utilitec lamps, but the LED tube lamps I have contacts on one end only & wire directly to the power. 

If you haven’t purchased your fixtures yet, check out Prime Lights in Austin TX. I installed 10 of their 3 lamp BOLT fixtures in my shop & love them. Current price is $82/fixture, $74 if you buy 12. 

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Jan 10, 2022, at 11:13 AM, john niolon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:


Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' led tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them
 
now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work
but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or lost...
 
Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web site is a joke    anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up either with or
without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted bulbs...but now sure
 
thanks
john


--------------BFyYSe3A6ESow6Gv0XPY3J0o-- --===============6310247741021100245== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============6310247741021100245==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 10 11:48:59 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AFC8A0BFE for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:48:59 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-yb1-f182.google.com (unknown [209.85.219.182]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF140A0B89 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:48:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-yb1-f182.google.com with SMTP id i3so40516068ybh.11 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:48:45 -0800 (PST) d=mcfetridge.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=idDbOaadLkVdynrylGcRyyAkD/Q2n+Ki91td0rmDEps=; b=lNEyZHuJdV901zgq1saPosu4g9lMTGgs5H2gWPufo3OuvE7oGucCzLe1iVlOJQuq6n 86ecvpivXXQvHB4ysZjr8Mr9bw9un6HTG6/ZMRcJ0eGhtmPw7v3uVOIVrJsTaWQw0wko xtMqx6D+JmxXsy8kibX50hulbAdYiqJd05bpc= d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=idDbOaadLkVdynrylGcRyyAkD/Q2n+Ki91td0rmDEps=; b=iflcVKpfwmh4+u8T3OiHvXEv6z/lF+dNo+st5wLCnT7WsfD/Gb4aLplapVBMs5hDxj iJM40z7yxdU6GO9g89D0d2EhdYu1y18NQlVxumJdb2hDPy36fCnVsP+TPKCigf8v9jCI pPWVRU+cmoNCbxiTRlT1so2sWw5W1kOBzntB0L17TKypZtpAhxX+hoIQIvTd7eMWu+lw 7FzGCKcomkQ4uC1+uSATgG3YtoBuJPHyWNH7ONuI62Lez/RfHO7pBfUzCvXq9mZieDHf ibuAxnl0TT9s3hmbSeeEeFC7Uh7QRIzua1nFbbFaPOaigGl8RYjF8f/c6AFJXccCom7U cxPg== d8pbS/va0NnsXrBdbnRRd/niIXA9oiAC1MCiYxy5zQ== Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:48:44 -0800 (PST) References: <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg@johns-desktop> From: Ian McFetridge Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 13:48:34 -0500 To: john niolon Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2026081109629441360== --000000000000449a0505d53ec94e I used the Feit replacement LED tubes, it sounds like they are similar. Here are the instructions for the Feit, maybe that will help? https://www.feit.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/T4815_850_AB_LED_10_MANUAL_051019.pdf Best, Ian On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 12:12 PM john niolon wrote: > Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' led > tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them > > now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory has > failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work > but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or lost... > > Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web site > is a joke anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up either with or > without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted bulbs...but > now sure > > thanks > john > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2@mcfetridge.org > > --000000000000449a0505d53ec94e Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I used the Feit replacement LED tubes, it sounds like they= are similar.=C2=A0 Here are the instructions for the Feit, maybe that will= help?
https://www.feit.com/wp-content/uploads/20= 19/10/T4815_850_AB_LED_10_MANUAL_051019.pdf

Best= ,
Ian

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 12:12 PM john niolon <<= a href=3D"mailto:jniolon@att.net">jniolon@att.net> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitec= h t81636f16-40...4' led tubes...redid all my shop lights and was please= d with them
=C2=A0
now I want to add some fixtures in another par= t of shop and my memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to ma= ke them work
but can remember what I did and instruction sh= eet is long gone or lost...
=C2=A0
Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now disconti= nued and Utilitech web site is a joke=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 anyone tell me how = to wire these bulbs up either with or
without ballast..,....seems I remember they we= re non shunted bulbs...but now sure
=C2=A0
thanks
john
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/shop-talk2@mcfetridge.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://= autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2@mcfetridge.org

--000000000000449a0505d53ec94e-- --===============2026081109629441360== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2026081109629441360==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 10 11:54:54 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E28A3A0C13 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:54:54 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from st43p00im-zteg10062001.me.com (unknown [17.58.63.166]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DED79A0BE9 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:54:41 -0700 (MST) s=1a1hai; t=1641840881; bh=gsE/pQVPOhLJvJwd4m22FWxHtBsFcHO8a2vay9NUEM4=; h=Content-Type:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=PVA/iKyQr7iRQKXv1wo4XsqjIxXSIE1QAEvbTNs0mhYksnOS2slrP8dyu1McWboIN 6CQpVG+SLZy8iKwup0oEmu8UyJaqLH138kPcK6q9Gs1zevPXoZQI6eFpKIEjOUP7r/ tAxllJlFaTKJEan0XUIa2KC8aLHGmGTEUVfXnJJ1+86UymMQW1CqU5oBT1l1A9y3tj b3HTNDhQ2TiFD1K3km4r5RNz3EB/3gjOtbJ3IbnJBPAuqJ8xPk6sJ4YejVaTnzWqTd BkXiXmh3Z3l6imo4gu9PdT+KyCtP5Ll7XydLitIbmTKBUkZHkaYCjXC7xjBxMMRd2V qzP5Lw6MW+69A== Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-24-0-67-152.hsd1.nj.comcast.net [24.0.67.152]) by st43p00im-zteg10062001.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2274780083A for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 18:54:41 +0000 (UTC) From: Tom Coradeschi Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 13:54:39 -0500 References: To: shop-talk definitions=2022-01-10_08:2022-01-10, 2022-01-10 signatures=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2009150000 definitions=main-2201100129 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============6764985482406216356== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-C3B3CB8C-511B-45C0-8353-F7FFCE2A81BD charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sounds like the best idea yet! Tom Coradeschi tjcora@icloud.com > On Jan 10, 2022, at 1:09 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > John, >=20 > Your tubes should be marked with the operating voltage on one end or the o= ther. If they're like most modern LED replacements, they'll be set to work a= t 120 volts on one end. All you have to do is wire the lamp power hot and ne= utral to one tombstone. >=20 > You could always open up one of your old fixtures and see what you did wit= h it. >=20 >> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 12:13 john niolon wrote: >> Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' led tub= es...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them >> =20 >> now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory has= failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work >> but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or lost...= >> =20 >> Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web site= is a joke anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up either with or >> without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted bulbs...but n= ow sure >> =20 >> thanks >> john >> _______________________________________________ >>=20 >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar= chive >>=20 >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishp= late@gmail.com >>=20 > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc= hive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora= @icloud.com >=20 --Apple-Mail-C3B3CB8C-511B-45C0-8353-F7FFCE2A81BD charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sounds like the best idea yet!

Tom Coradeschi
tjcora@icloud.com
=
On Jan 10, 2022, at 1:09 PM, Jeff Scarbrough &= lt;fishplate@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
John,

Your tubes should be marked with the operating v= oltage on one end or the other. If they're like most modern LED replacements= , they'll be set to work at 120 volts on one end. All you have to do is wire= the lamp power hot and neutral to one tombstone.
You could always open up one of your old fixtures a= nd see what you did with it.

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 12:13 john niolon <= jniolon@att.net> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #= ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech= t81636f16-40...4' led tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with= them
 
now I want to add some fixtures in another part= of shop and my memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make= them work
but can remember what I did and instruction she= et is long gone or lost...
 
Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontin= ued and Utilitech web site is a joke    anyone tell me how to= wire these bulbs up either with or
without ballast..,....seems I remember they wer= e non shunted bulbs...but now sure
 
thanks
john
_______________________________________________

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= --Apple-Mail-C3B3CB8C-511B-45C0-8353-F7FFCE2A81BD-- --===============6764985482406216356== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============6764985482406216356==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 10 13:08:19 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33F32A08F1 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 13:08:19 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resdmta-h1p-028482.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.102.200.12]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DC85A04E9 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 13:07:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-h1p-027908.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.179.197]) by resdmta-h1p-028482.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 6tcSnzI6LfGA170xNn4sYT; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:07:53 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1641845273; bh=bGTEspCEhFslkcEe7S9LSR+8Lt8y8wVT2LHhgHbcKuE=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From; b=48KubPRgzUTOFxRv/hBSBuA83tQBGUhLyP854GOXFJt13rGF8KjyH3B9rB0A8B8FG m5ZiDET832UZzGOT4WdyrabNsklF8ma+N6Ht6E/cBzVSo1IlAppwxjlb+YS8G/oI3L 0xHDHe1Omxx8BhI20Xi+ZZpF3YoO3chyXe/KZL7Kjmbzvc7N02KjseXfb35yHt0J6h UZRQ0UfZIbvdFipaxL+7kphnf8DdrgMTyTvZQCZf3QX4YJfjx2iIr3TqYzk1Iu/9S3 /amAp3W1fzPJULtUhsjpakaltNwXQlznjymd0Lb5Pyxaw93qDF+uRzGPoNGTFr+u8L DLz7WuVEPn7Qw== Received: from [192.168.1.120] ([104.153.206.37]) by resomta-h1p-027908.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id 70wrn9sQcQHtB70wvn1IWF; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:07:29 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 12:07:20 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.4.1 Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg@johns-desktop> From: Bob Spidell Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============8185626895329952675== boundary="------------GQFKR32ush58JtJbS5pVjku9" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------GQFKR32ush58JtJbS5pVjku9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Since I was already 'LED curious,' I did a bit of research: - there are some LED tubes that require a ballast* ('Type A') - there are some LED tubes that require bypassing of the ballast ('Type B') - there are some LED tubes that work with ballast or without/bypassing, with some rewiring* ('Type A+B') If you want the least (initial) hassle, and have 'fresh' ballasts--they all fail, eventually--you can plug and play the 'A+B' type with a ballast then, when the ballast fails you can bypass it, which requires some rewiring (apparently, you can leave the dead ballast in place). * Need to check compatibility between tube and ballast. On 1/10/2022 10:48 AM, Ian McFetridge wrote: > I used the Feit replacement LED tubes, it sounds like they are > similar.  Here are the instructions for the Feit, maybe that will help? > https://www.feit.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/T4815_850_AB_LED_10_MANUAL_051019.pdf > > Best, > Ian > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 12:12 PM john niolon wrote: > > Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' > led tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them > now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my > memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work > but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or > lost... > Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech > web site is a joke anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up > either with or > without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted > bulbs...but now sure > thanks > john > --------------GQFKR32ush58JtJbS5pVjku9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Since I was already 'LED curious,' I did a bit of research:

- there are some LED tubes that require a ballast* ('Type A')
- there are some LED tubes that require bypassing of the ballast ('Type B')
- there are some LED tubes that work with ballast or without/bypassing, with some rewiring* ('Type A+B')


If you want the least (initial) hassle, and have 'fresh' ballasts--they all fail, eventually--you can plug and play the 'A+B' type with a ballast then, when the ballast fails you can bypass it, which requires some rewiring (apparently, you can leave the dead ballast in place).


* Need to check compatibility between tube and ballast.


On 1/10/2022 10:48 AM, Ian McFetridge wrote:
I used the Feit replacement LED tubes, it sounds like they are similar.  Here are the instructions for the Feit, maybe that will help?
https://www.feit.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/T4815_850_AB_LED_10_MANUAL_051019.pdf

Best,
Ian

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 12:12 PM john niolon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:
Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' led tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them
 
now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work
but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or lost...
 
Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web site is a joke    anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up either with or
without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted bulbs...but now sure
 
thanks
john


--------------GQFKR32ush58JtJbS5pVjku9-- --===============8185626895329952675== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8185626895329952675==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 10 14:42:58 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D969AA06DA for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:42:58 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-yb1-f182.google.com (unknown [209.85.219.182]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C906FA0419 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:42:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-yb1-f182.google.com with SMTP id i3so41771355ybh.11 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 13:42:44 -0800 (PST) d=maracing-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4s55RXrtsIrQAztwguopcfGkinHLmatqFfsgocuOPxE=; b=tSWUToJmRnPxesDW7Wza4P5XTFiLij8qFvI2JS2JWQ+gy0OvJ0oaBcK5Y9Koz8JmDi F26f3fTIyYitGwnaYdyjUG3iukmIcxaVwH2LrE0AM/lxsCE2o9cgaoBQRuycW/O6XoLv bg9t4QcQeWt30p7j95dqSgb2+E25Bs6P1DuDjVdsJwYW9yMPCvitmvdZhbduNrBknFOM RlbW4AhAYtUJXbpA6NSNORWVw1+mxa5TbYbTg4T0FZy85UvMHTLwCClmEAj2vmG4qOR9 2XwYRI+FzcXa7dIZiZcgGbWjROiqEFug9r6vPygcYEQTPmN/9Ldi4QwQ+cKNQIYpG94/ MDbQ== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4s55RXrtsIrQAztwguopcfGkinHLmatqFfsgocuOPxE=; b=JWJBAk3ZukFsf18mqFVLsbqEXpGA/FZVkHhdcsmzaf96rVJepOz8U2GZEm+acZhAey qUzj3/vGflBHZy/6JLrHCNUWhf/eUiCPJS7zypzKn2pc17yNacOmNSGBJgDTFNwTNruZ 79feMa3I902XsBxTUZ5xnFHgjLOK4ar61tT+EiUPnPpBRol0mvMoY1bW/dtkRVwNeGY6 xCRFtFGxPdTfDyYKE1ilqKMHIVX84+++jPKgfclcQu37ah59uWQPevTZexUAtDohDp42 x0yMJcnyjfsnaQFzX3VSny/pvNR6nRiQZb1HlvVRso/9V544XmVut9DhAnMJsIdv/dEN KhsA== o5cFCAJOdNiPYxS4KgckQYxu8bdMIJtC0M7OkPQO5g== Mon, 10 Jan 2022 13:42:44 -0800 (PST) References: <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg@johns-desktop> <72c53909-c36d-e711-1532-edd5f353b96b@comcast.net> From: Mark Andy Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 16:42:38 -0500 To: Bob Spidell Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8114582945734834338== --0000000000007c6b9005d5413780 Howdy, If I were doing this, I would pretty much just throw away the existing stuff and put up these: https://www.amazon.com/Barrina-8500LM-Daylight-Output-Linkable/dp/B07RKZFD5Z/ref=sr_1_2_sspa I have a shop that was built around 7 years ago and stuff like this wasn't available at this cost, so I went with 4 tube fluorescent fixtures. They've been "fine", but when I redid our daily driver parking garage last year I used the Barrina lights. Super easy, nice bright light, and pretty cheap. Absolutely no question that's what I'd do if I were redoing the shop / what I will do when the time comes when the existing fluorescents die. YMMV. Mark On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 3:08 PM Bob Spidell wrote: > Since I was already 'LED curious,' I did a bit of research: > > - there are some LED tubes that require a ballast* ('Type A') > - there are some LED tubes that require bypassing of the ballast ('Type B') > - there are some LED tubes that work with ballast or without/bypassing, > with some rewiring* ('Type A+B') > > > If you want the least (initial) hassle, and have 'fresh' ballasts--they > all fail, eventually--you can plug and play the 'A+B' type with a ballast > then, when the ballast fails you can bypass it, which requires some > rewiring (apparently, you can leave the dead ballast in place). > > > * Need to check compatibility between tube and ballast. > > > On 1/10/2022 10:48 AM, Ian McFetridge wrote: > > I used the Feit replacement LED tubes, it sounds like they are similar. > Here are the instructions for the Feit, maybe that will help? > > https://www.feit.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/T4815_850_AB_LED_10_MANUAL_051019.pdf > > Best, > Ian > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 12:12 PM john niolon wrote: > >> Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' led >> tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them >> >> now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory has >> failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work >> but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or lost... >> >> Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web site >> is a joke anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up either with or >> without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted bulbs...but >> now sure >> >> thanks >> john >> >> > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka@maracing.com > > --0000000000007c6b9005d5413780 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Howdy,

If I were doing this, I would pretty much ju= st throw away the existing stuff and put up these:

https://www.amazon.com/Barrina-8500LM-Daylight-Output-Linka= ble/dp/B07RKZFD5Z/ref=3Dsr_1_2_sspa

I have a shop that was built= around 7 years ago and stuff like this wasn't available at this cost, = so I went with 4 tube fluorescent=C2=A0fixtures.=C2=A0 They've been &qu= ot;fine", but when I redid our daily driver parking garage last year I= used the Barrina lights.=C2=A0 Super easy, nice bright light, and pretty c= heap.=C2=A0 Absolutely no question that's what I'd do if I were red= oing the shop / what I will do when the=C2=A0time comes when the existing f= luorescents die.

YMMV.

Mark

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 3:08 PM Bo= b Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net<= /a>> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Since I was already 'LED curious,' I did a bit of research:

- there are some LED tubes that require a ballast* ('Type A') - there are some LED tubes that require bypassing of the ballast ('Type B')
- there are some LED tubes that work with ballast or without/bypassing, with some rewiring* ('Type A+B')


If you want the least (initial) hassle, and have 'fresh' ballasts--they all fail, eventually--you can plug and play the 'A+B= ' type with a ballast then, when the ballast fails you can bypass it, which requires some rewiring (apparently, you can leave the dead ballast in place).


* Need to check compatibility between tube and ballast.


On 1/10/2022 10:48 AM, Ian McFetridge wrote:
=20
On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 12:12 PM john niolon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:
Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' led tubes...redid al= l my shop lights and was pleased with them
=C2=A0
now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work
but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or lost...
=C2=A0
Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web site is a joke=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up either with or
without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted bulbs...but now sure<= /div>
=C2=A0
thanks
john


_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/marka@maracing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t= eam.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka@maracing.com

--0000000000007c6b9005d5413780-- --===============8114582945734834338== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8114582945734834338==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 10 17:14:19 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80324A0664 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 17:14:19 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-c1p-023462.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.102.19.34]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A575EA0494 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 17:14:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-c1p-023409.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.18.228]) by resqmta-c1p-023462.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 6tognZFeaRSaf74ncn5Dvk; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 00:14:04 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1641860044; bh=3VsYoG1/ylejM56CCCQrG2E/xNYmj1VYq0ZF8ivW1Og=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From; b=ZEepYqTdUfhG8eEuEd9lo6UWxR5Fz1zhpJ5VZCqSlzDc92poJs3hPoHaQC4ezb5LV 5Ksie/rZd/x09vSrVnre21DzLxOLjyVnEQsVTKA887RUNutEAcXmqQK2ptL3ceAgFH 5WoZz7lcX25Det+L2jN5eKjpZ3Ils0Q+TuC1cxR/uVk2pZBK0pf7Im3BGSaRCWRAxK YuQXz3yP+np4SuRxOQeTkse+ZYNFjyi8dDeVKOc2MG0C0zuaeQxfv+19QUEERMXQKi ILGMaxmuw2mFUBewNz1KlPKBWYc3zIgf47O8++S3jakECf8dFP9gRtcSjDCOuuR094 jTB8LmGW4lW5Q== Received: from [192.168.1.120] ([104.153.206.37]) by resomta-c1p-023409.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id 74n3nIDG0ahT674n5nt9Ck; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 00:13:38 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 16:13:29 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.4.1 Content-Language: en-US To: Mark Andy References: <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg@johns-desktop> <72c53909-c36d-e711-1532-edd5f353b96b@comcast.net> From: Bob Spidell Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============5271781061062552767== boundary="------------O10Diqnqns4x2zQInivco8fA" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------O10Diqnqns4x2zQInivco8fA Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A quick glance doesn't show how they're mounted; anyone know? Seems like you'd still want a fixture to reflect light. On 1/10/2022 1:42 PM, Mark Andy wrote: > Howdy, > > If I were doing this, I would pretty much just throw away the existing > stuff and put up these: > > https://www.amazon.com/Barrina-8500LM-Daylight-Output-Linkable/dp/B07RKZFD5Z/ref=sr_1_2_sspa > > I have a shop that was built around 7 years ago and stuff like this > wasn't available at this cost, so I went with 4 tube > fluorescent fixtures.  They've been "fine", but when I redid our daily > driver parking garage last year I used the Barrina lights.  Super > easy, nice bright light, and pretty cheap. Absolutely no question > that's what I'd do if I were redoing the shop / what I will do when > the time comes when the existing fluorescents die. > > YMMV. > > Mark > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 3:08 PM Bob Spidell wrote: > > Since I was already 'LED curious,' I did a bit of research: > > - there are some LED tubes that require a ballast* ('Type A') > - there are some LED tubes that require bypassing of the ballast > ('Type B') > - there are some LED tubes that work with ballast or > without/bypassing, with some rewiring* ('Type A+B') > > > If you want the least (initial) hassle, and have 'fresh' > ballasts--they all fail, eventually--you can plug and play the > 'A+B' type with a ballast then, when the ballast fails you can > bypass it, which requires some rewiring (apparently, you can leave > the dead ballast in place). > > > * Need to check compatibility between tube and ballast. > > > On 1/10/2022 10:48 AM, Ian McFetridge wrote: >> I used the Feit replacement LED tubes, it sounds like they are >> similar.  Here are the instructions for the Feit, maybe that will >> help? >> https://www.feit.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/T4815_850_AB_LED_10_MANUAL_051019.pdf >> >> Best, >> Ian >> >> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 12:12 PM john niolon wrote: >> >> Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech >> t81636f16-40...4' led tubes...redid all my shop lights and >> was pleased with them >> now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and >> my memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to >> make them work >> but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long >> gone or lost... >> Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and >> Utilitech web site is a joke    anyone tell me how to wire >> these bulbs up either with or >> without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted >> bulbs...but now sure >> thanks >> john >> > > --------------O10Diqnqns4x2zQInivco8fA Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A quick glance doesn't show how they're mounted; anyone know? Seems like you'd still want a fixture to reflect light.


On 1/10/2022 1:42 PM, Mark Andy wrote:
Howdy,

If I were doing this, I would pretty much just throw away the existing stuff and put up these:

https://www.amazon.com/Barrina-8500LM-Daylight-Output-Linkable/dp/B07RKZFD5Z/ref=sr_1_2_sspa

I have a shop that was built around 7 years ago and stuff like this wasn't available at this cost, so I went with 4 tube fluorescent fixtures.  They've been "fine", but when I redid our daily driver parking garage last year I used the Barrina lights.  Super easy, nice bright light, and pretty cheap.  Absolutely no question that's what I'd do if I were redoing the shop / what I will do when the time comes when the existing fluorescents die.

YMMV.

Mark

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 3:08 PM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
Since I was already 'LED curious,' I did a bit of research:

- there are some LED tubes that require a ballast* ('Type A')
- there are some LED tubes that require bypassing of the ballast ('Type B')
- there are some LED tubes that work with ballast or without/bypassing, with some rewiring* ('Type A+B')


If you want the least (initial) hassle, and have 'fresh' ballasts--they all fail, eventually--you can plug and play the 'A+B' type with a ballast then, when the ballast fails you can bypass it, which requires some rewiring (apparently, you can leave the dead ballast in place).


* Need to check compatibility between tube and ballast.


On 1/10/2022 10:48 AM, Ian McFetridge wrote:
I used the Feit replacement LED tubes, it sounds like they are similar.  Here are the instructions for the Feit, maybe that will help?
https://www.feit.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/T4815_850_AB_LED_10_MANUAL_051019.pdf

Best,
Ian

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 12:12 PM john niolon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:
Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' led tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them
 
now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work
but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or lost...
 
Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web site is a joke    anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up either with or
without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted bulbs...but now sure
 
thanks
john




--------------O10Diqnqns4x2zQInivco8fA-- --===============5271781061062552767== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5271781061062552767==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 10 22:42:39 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AA50A0ACB for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 22:42:39 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-yb1-f178.google.com (unknown [209.85.219.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF2CAA076B for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 22:42:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-yb1-f178.google.com with SMTP id g81so16944832ybg.10 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 21:42:25 -0800 (PST) d=maracing-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=mAng8XG2QUvcdcqZFU0ds8vpPXFJ12nzECu4It7w6Es=; b=yPflt8OFMl9jIQ3eeze1GLgyTFWqddwpH79Ohv806G7ExhaLn/JvABnK9T02MPn0xE 1Cak8BqwxApBH4BpxfqsGEXgqr0K/ZqI3ljV7XxpoiBgYqCm+IQQ2yPlLL/xpe9nIFXh OSaldfD3rfApfxMMcSJ0J2wX4Kwxkf8QTwqy0I6cfLO+5xlRNo5YQeTnakyr/0FabYS+ 26e1l7EZPwOLqTWX140fq/u0QT3SNDEXoSNQJ50jDg02s0pcctE50Yo6xGOLtvY4v+Jl DT2J4Cbwp3gixNS8LWHCZgYj0aoA6EpP9490V6AeO4h3FZGwTtNlL7Wce4wwAKWB0z8V QbFw== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=mAng8XG2QUvcdcqZFU0ds8vpPXFJ12nzECu4It7w6Es=; b=wdFYPAuOeDReyQu/rYwteVd9BETrxAg0JSLLwhosD+cfFYtvuYJ0gt98CGmC0l2Qpn k3tK/CJ/X18guhqYe3jAGs0RDPuMVJYVl83xCv1+YpNzYKI9RJwwRUyP8xPPyOhSHPUo uLQwDknDDK8bXxsWIdcLNLh1Ihk0MAJaTqQjcGzHAUMZ/mX7fBRn/2ZtUK5TxNuMzbjp /rFzn/dcr9Wh6ds5zkjQKqVD9JzJLKSK3HRpT0wahqYOI16H69v4VTH5dxeXD1/dKcub XbXO5Kef0E9cqRM6RRrrtKWXmeYD7KVJhP/JJ4TLDugGEicDds/XBaQ0qfEDRtC3okfu VmGA== O/XN4dNpM/OLeYssYdy657EzSs4ZIU3eFZ3LQQL8gNnaHlq5Cg== Mon, 10 Jan 2022 21:42:24 -0800 (PST) References: <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg@johns-desktop> <72c53909-c36d-e711-1532-edd5f353b96b@comcast.net> <32ec4efd-b96e-a7c8-95de-4dcb4541f066@comcast.net> From: Mark Andy Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 00:42:13 -0500 To: ShopTalk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8025510543958725781== --000000000000f4370705d547ea74 Howdy, They come with clips that you can screw to the ceiling. There's no fixture. I don't know that a fixture would help in any event, since the LEDs are all surface mounted, so they wouldn't throw light up toward the ceiling in any event. You all should do whatever you like, but after using both these as well as fluorescents, there's no way I would use a fluorescent fixture. I might compare other LED solutions, but if they cost significantly more than these, I wouldn't bother. I've been nothing but impressed / happy with them. Mark On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 7:14 PM Bob Spidell wrote: > A quick glance doesn't show how they're mounted; anyone know? Seems like > you'd still want a fixture to reflect light. > > > On 1/10/2022 1:42 PM, Mark Andy wrote: > > Howdy, > > If I were doing this, I would pretty much just throw away the existing > stuff and put up these: > > > https://www.amazon.com/Barrina-8500LM-Daylight-Output-Linkable/dp/B07RKZFD5Z/ref=sr_1_2_sspa > > I have a shop that was built around 7 years ago and stuff like this wasn't > available at this cost, so I went with 4 tube fluorescent fixtures. > They've been "fine", but when I redid our daily driver parking garage last > year I used the Barrina lights. Super easy, nice bright light, and pretty > cheap. Absolutely no question that's what I'd do if I were redoing the > shop / what I will do when the time comes when the existing fluorescents > die. > > YMMV. > > Mark > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 3:08 PM Bob Spidell wrote: > >> Since I was already 'LED curious,' I did a bit of research: >> >> - there are some LED tubes that require a ballast* ('Type A') >> - there are some LED tubes that require bypassing of the ballast ('Type >> B') >> - there are some LED tubes that work with ballast or without/bypassing, >> with some rewiring* ('Type A+B') >> >> >> If you want the least (initial) hassle, and have 'fresh' ballasts--they >> all fail, eventually--you can plug and play the 'A+B' type with a ballast >> then, when the ballast fails you can bypass it, which requires some >> rewiring (apparently, you can leave the dead ballast in place). >> >> >> * Need to check compatibility between tube and ballast. >> >> >> On 1/10/2022 10:48 AM, Ian McFetridge wrote: >> >> I used the Feit replacement LED tubes, it sounds like they are similar. >> Here are the instructions for the Feit, maybe that will help? >> >> https://www.feit.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/T4815_850_AB_LED_10_MANUAL_051019.pdf >> >> Best, >> Ian >> >> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 12:12 PM john niolon wrote: >> >>> Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' led >>> tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them >>> >>> now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory >>> has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work >>> but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or lost... >>> >>> Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web >>> site is a joke anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up either with or >>> without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted bulbs...but >>> now sure >>> >>> thanks >>> john >>> >>> >> >> > --000000000000f4370705d547ea74 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Howdy,

They come w= ith clips that you can screw to the ceiling.=C2=A0 There's no fixture.= =C2=A0 I don't know that a fixture would help in any event, since the L= EDs are all surface mounted, so they wouldn't throw light up toward the= ceiling in any event.

You all should do whatever you like, but afte= r using both these as well as fluorescents, there's no way I would use = a fluorescent fixture.=C2=A0 I might compare other LED solutions, but if th= ey cost significantly more than these, I wouldn't bother.=C2=A0 I'v= e been nothing but impressed / happy with them.

M= ark

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 7:14 PM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
A quick glance doesn't show how they're mounted; anyone know? S= eems like you'd still want a fixture to reflect light.


On 1/10/2022 1:42 PM, Mark Andy wrote:
=20
Howdy,

If I were doing this, I would pretty much just throw away the existing stuff and put up these:

https://www.amazo= n.com/Barrina-8500LM-Daylight-Output-Linkable/dp/B07RKZFD5Z/ref=3Dsr_1_2_ss= pa

I have a shop that was built around 7 years ago and stuff like this wasn't available at this cost, so I went with 4 tube fluorescent=C2=A0fixtures.=C2=A0 They've been "fine",= but when I redid our daily driver parking garage last year I used the Barrina lights.=C2=A0 Super easy, nice bright light, and pretty cheap.=C2= =A0 Absolutely no question that's what I'd do if I were redoing= the shop / what I will do when the=C2=A0time comes when the existing fluorescents die.

YMMV.

Mark

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 3:08 PM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
Since I was already 'LED curious,' I did a bit of research:

- there are some LED tubes that require a ballast* ('Type A')
- there are some LED tubes that require bypassing of the ballast ('Type B')
- there are some LED tubes that work with ballast or without/bypassing, with some rewiring* ('Type A+B')


If you want the least (initial) hassle, and have 'fresh'= ; ballasts--they all fail, eventually--you can plug and play the 'A+B' type with a ballast then, when the ballast fa= ils you can bypass it, which requires some rewiring (apparently, you can leave the dead ballast in place).


* Need to check compatibility between tube and ballast.


On 1/10/2022 10:48 AM, Ian McFetridge wrote:
I used the Feit replacement LED tubes, it sounds like they are similar.=C2=A0 Here are the instructio= ns for the Feit, maybe that will help?
https://www.feit.c= om/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/T4815_850_AB_LED_10_MANUAL_051019.pdf

Best,
Ian

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 12:12 PM john niolon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:
Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' led tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them
=C2=A0
now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work
but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or lost...
=C2=A0
Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web site is a joke=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 anyone tell me how= to wire these bulbs up either with or
without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted bulbs...but now sure
=C2=A0
thanks
john




--000000000000f4370705d547ea74-- --===============8025510543958725781== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8025510543958725781==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 11 05:58:47 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7246A0B0B for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 05:58:47 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ed1-f54.google.com (unknown [209.85.208.54]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BFF3A028F for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 05:57:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ed1-f54.google.com with SMTP id z22so21761356edd.12 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 04:57:42 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Xp6MbwIac/nFjboE5dFeR6d2pLMt1C+skZ50mOJW028=; b=kcIvC/GCyPUPfVBPTsWWXJM0Hcu+phtAOZyCTqlznCpynJIm/ca2agEKE0Q4tiUMt4 nCPNna05qCzpqkz0VUcRo4Y/H3cZ3He1la+voCNmvUVTtS5Rn4FTqonN/T0SUFeDmDPf brOTsrVwlR0t7vLRDOCuZK7SscfIEYBmVHpqpVwJ+HA+9vWLo/crtpfcvK3SYJhnpcAf dgu4doLesAFszEyroY7WjiBfQZpNX62QarFJBDECEkkEAJhQjMsmW9yFmFrF347WoWsD 3YR8PH7nt0WGM0SaXz4FN7g5KwPf/U4W7L+/OcNz2zGucoPl/57zu2o2NeqCjGwk8wqh KfMw== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Xp6MbwIac/nFjboE5dFeR6d2pLMt1C+skZ50mOJW028=; b=ZooeiOk8wi6amS4aHEuHWztUbw1CQb2lRo90xSK+jRmR8d7bJDeFw5XX18hXeqp0rV j5GdprIlFxA4avc1GerHgYn3OHzOVyJbkwnGaDv8WSKQeA9tf3L7Jj8QsCj1j2WFIL9f Fag22jInTo29wHtKu5ZUhn8w4Yi/SJhEy4VCnxzTlYp/3+ZJEYKd2aLoniVFZX1YtcZz Qsy5oUEEZseL+tQ9qRrMmjvhkk65OAdl4j1ym6m34Tzmj/paj4R8TW4ejdcH0SldyQna xo941edl8aUwJkoeBIDHXFkqtm+8C0IGosJFST+W9EWW4etNYxmhWWTCtesjEX9NSP9q Y2JA== fuhLtAPEhq7OTFAwA4Xa63rHa5Af2GqE8B4k+4c= v25mr1840770ejc.539.1641905861576; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 04:57:41 -0800 (PST) References: <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg@johns-desktop> <72c53909-c36d-e711-1532-edd5f353b96b@comcast.net> <32ec4efd-b96e-a7c8-95de-4dcb4541f066@comcast.net> From: old dirtbeard Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 04:57:28 -0800 To: Mark Andy Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Cc: ShopTalk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7453995462882771206== --000000000000a24aef05d54dff08 The primary advantage of converting an existing fluorescent fixture to LED is that it is already there, wired, has the sockets, etc. I converted all of the 8' fluorescent lights in my garage years ago from magnetic ballast to electronic ballast and it was a good investment for me at the time (used less power, lights started faster, there was less flicker, less noise, worked better in the cold, erc.). A couple years ago I converted all of them again to LED bulbs by just removing the electronic ballasts and inserting 8' LED bulbs for all the reasons previously stated. I gave all of the electronic ballasts to a friend who was still using fluorescent 8' tubes with magnetic ballasts. These are the bulbs I used and I am completely satisfied with them: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074MC1FW3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1 You do not need to remove the ballast, just wire the sockets directly to the 110VAC lines. It could not be easier. Here are 4' LED bulbs that I used for some other locations around the house in the existing fluorescent sockets for the same reasons: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074M8KCJ1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Again, the primary reason for using the replacement LEDs is that you only have to change the bulbs and bypass the ballast. It is really easy to do and the technology is the same. You are just reusing the existing mounts. If I were starting fresh, from scratch, yes, I would just use the direct mount LEDs that Mark is advocating. There is no need for the reflectors as the LED lights do not emit 360 degree light, they can be purchased in 90 degree or 120 degree spread if you desire. best, doug On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 9:42 PM Mark Andy wrote: > > Howdy, > > They come with clips that you can screw to the ceiling. There's no > fixture. I don't know that a fixture would help in any event, since the > LEDs are all surface mounted, so they wouldn't throw light up toward the > ceiling in any event. > > You all should do whatever you like, but after using both these as well as > fluorescents, there's no way I would use a fluorescent fixture. I might > compare other LED solutions, but if they cost significantly more than > these, I wouldn't bother. I've been nothing but impressed / happy with > them. > > Mark > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 7:14 PM Bob Spidell wrote: > >> A quick glance doesn't show how they're mounted; anyone know? Seems like >> you'd still want a fixture to reflect light. >> >> >> On 1/10/2022 1:42 PM, Mark Andy wrote: >> >> Howdy, >> >> If I were doing this, I would pretty much just throw away the existing >> stuff and put up these: >> >> >> https://www.amazon.com/Barrina-8500LM-Daylight-Output-Linkable/dp/B07RKZFD5Z/ref=sr_1_2_sspa >> >> I have a shop that was built around 7 years ago and stuff like this >> wasn't available at this cost, so I went with 4 tube fluorescent fixtures. >> They've been "fine", but when I redid our daily driver parking garage last >> year I used the Barrina lights. Super easy, nice bright light, and pretty >> cheap. Absolutely no question that's what I'd do if I were redoing the >> shop / what I will do when the time comes when the existing fluorescents >> die. >> >> YMMV. >> >> Mark >> >> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 3:08 PM Bob Spidell wrote: >> >>> Since I was already 'LED curious,' I did a bit of research: >>> >>> - there are some LED tubes that require a ballast* ('Type A') >>> - there are some LED tubes that require bypassing of the ballast ('Type >>> B') >>> - there are some LED tubes that work with ballast or without/bypassing, >>> with some rewiring* ('Type A+B') >>> >>> >>> If you want the least (initial) hassle, and have 'fresh' ballasts--they >>> all fail, eventually--you can plug and play the 'A+B' type with a ballast >>> then, when the ballast fails you can bypass it, which requires some >>> rewiring (apparently, you can leave the dead ballast in place). >>> >>> >>> * Need to check compatibility between tube and ballast. >>> >>> >>> On 1/10/2022 10:48 AM, Ian McFetridge wrote: >>> >>> I used the Feit replacement LED tubes, it sounds like they are similar. >>> Here are the instructions for the Feit, maybe that will help? >>> >>> https://www.feit.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/T4815_850_AB_LED_10_MANUAL_051019.pdf >>> >>> Best, >>> Ian >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 12:12 PM john niolon wrote: >>> >>>> Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' led >>>> tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them >>>> >>>> now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory >>>> has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work >>>> but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or >>>> lost... >>>> >>>> Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web >>>> site is a joke anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up either with or >>>> without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted >>>> bulbs...but now sure >>>> >>>> thanks >>>> john >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com > > --000000000000a24aef05d54dff08 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The primary advantage of converting an existing fluorescen= t=C2=A0fixture to LED is that it is already there, wired, has the sockets, = etc.

I converted all of the 8' fluorescent=C2=A0ligh= ts in my garage years ago from magnetic ballast to electronic ballast and i= t was a good investment for me at the=C2=A0time (used less power, lights st= arted faster, there was less flicker, less noise, worked better in the cold= , erc.).

A couple years ago I converted all of the= m again to LED bulbs by just removing the electronic ballasts and inserting= 8' LED bulbs for all the reasons previously=C2=A0stated. I gave all of= the electronic=C2=A0ballasts to a friend who was still using fluorescent= =C2=A08' tubes with magnetic ballasts. These are the bulbs I used and I= am completely satisfied with them:

You= do not need to remove the ballast, just wire the sockets directly to the 1= 10VAC lines. It could not be easier.

Here are 4= 9; LED bulbs that I used for some other locations around the house in the e= xisting fluorescent=C2=A0sockets for the same reasons:

Again, the primary reason for using the replacement LEDs is= that you only have to change the bulbs and bypass the ballast. It is reall= y easy to do and the technology is the same. You are just reusing the exist= ing mounts.

If I were starting fresh, from scratch= , yes, I would just use the direct mount LEDs that Mark is advocating. Ther= e is no need for the reflectors as the LED lights do not emit 360 degree li= ght, they can be purchased in 90 degree or 120 degree spread if you desire.=

best,
doug

On Mon, = Jan 10, 2022 at 9:42 PM Mark Andy <marka@maracing.com> wrote:

Howdy,

They come with clips that you can screw to the ceiling.=C2=A0 There= 's no fixture.=C2=A0 I don't know that a fixture would help in any = event, since the LEDs are all surface mounted, so they wouldn't throw l= ight up toward the ceiling in any event.

You all should do whatever = you like, but after using both these as well as fluorescents, there's n= o way I would use a fluorescent fixture.=C2=A0 I might compare other LED so= lutions, but if they cost significantly more than these, I wouldn't bot= her.=C2=A0 I've been nothing but impressed / happy with them.

Mark

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 7:14 PM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net= > wrote:
=20 =20 =20
A quick glance doesn't show how they're mounted; anyone know? S= eems like you'd still want a fixture to reflect light.


On 1/10/2022 1:42 PM, Mark Andy wrote:
=20
Howdy,

If I were doing this, I would pretty much just throw away the existing stuff and put up these:

https://www.amazo= n.com/Barrina-8500LM-Daylight-Output-Linkable/dp/B07RKZFD5Z/ref=3Dsr_1_2_ss= pa

I have a shop that was built around 7 years ago and stuff like this wasn't available at this cost, so I went with 4 tube fluorescent=C2=A0fixtures.=C2=A0 They've been "fine",= but when I redid our daily driver parking garage last year I used the Barrina lights.=C2=A0 Super easy, nice bright light, and pretty cheap.=C2= =A0 Absolutely no question that's what I'd do if I were redoing= the shop / what I will do when the=C2=A0time comes when the existing fluorescents die.

YMMV.

Mark

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 3:08 PM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
Since I was already 'LED curious,' I did a bit of research:

- there are some LED tubes that require a ballast* ('Type A')
- there are some LED tubes that require bypassing of the ballast ('Type B')
- there are some LED tubes that work with ballast or without/bypassing, with some rewiring* ('Type A+B')


If you want the least (initial) hassle, and have 'fresh'= ; ballasts--they all fail, eventually--you can plug and play the 'A+B' type with a ballast then, when the ballast fa= ils you can bypass it, which requires some rewiring (apparently, you can leave the dead ballast in place).


* Need to check compatibility between tube and ballast.


On 1/10/2022 10:48 AM, Ian McFetridge wrote:
I used the Feit replacement LED tubes, it sounds like they are similar.=C2=A0 Here are the instructio= ns for the Feit, maybe that will help?
https://www.feit.c= om/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/T4815_850_AB_LED_10_MANUAL_051019.pdf

Best,
Ian

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 12:12 PM john niolon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:
Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' led tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them
=C2=A0
now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work
but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or lost...
=C2=A0
Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web site is a joke=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 anyone tell me how= to wire these bulbs up either with or
without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted bulbs...but now sure
=C2=A0
thanks
john




_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
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--000000000000a24aef05d54dff08-- --===============7453995462882771206== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7453995462882771206==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 11 09:45:25 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C10B3A0A27 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 09:45:25 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-a1p-077720.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.103.146.54]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C85A8A08F7 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 09:44:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-a1p-077049.sys.comcast.net ([96.103.145.227]) by resqmta-a1p-077720.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 7IvUny4ESIUDU7KGOnZF67; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 16:44:48 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1641919488; bh=PUYrZB1qQMypm6xA6mddXiVWHgghquIqTM/veXCwJJo=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From; b=SjtolIeN/ll9sEyJkR8SeeOvekR5BOE613xvRh8Tay869pRPOlmQdUhVXI748qEW8 qz7bI/M0hiEOMUKJdL8Re7PJ6cy7XMNmF/9hGx3U3/wTvUVxOEjvO+nxI/I2NEXOx3 ej7PSD0KoHYisbTgNEcXcQCZYFIjKP1eAFm0epfY+aFEAtqGymONHCoM+SzvhgY+ze cf94OMAib8x7Esn2eCjD1oVCSGdSwJFm7SelYeUs1ihChig5WWaW49W3nMFYpXDDxK rn8ktbuHXDsydtw+3/wqOfVXeLa5xqbPGpWoq7+IcC4zwMnKcSZmpxeKFTjFZFgwlu mCZfiNvo5g2gg== Received: from [192.168.1.120] ([104.153.206.37]) by resomta-a1p-077049.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id 7KFlnxsv2W39k7KFonqMSm; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 16:44:17 +0000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 08:44:09 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.4.1 Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg@johns-desktop> <72c53909-c36d-e711-1532-edd5f353b96b@comcast.net> <32ec4efd-b96e-a7c8-95de-4dcb4541f066@comcast.net> From: Bob Spidell Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============7146226635176513509== boundary="------------UA4ePoazLvaolEPVTwKF0fuE" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------UA4ePoazLvaolEPVTwKF0fuE Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I thought I had it figured out, but what's the difference in designation between older tubes with 2 small prongs on one end, and the newer style with one fat prong? It seems they're both called 'TX,' with 'X' being 8, 12, etc. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074M8KCJ1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 vs. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074MC1FW3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1 On 1/11/2022 4:57 AM, old dirtbeard wrote: > The primary advantage of converting an existing fluorescent fixture to > LED is that it is already there, wired, has the sockets, etc. > > I converted all of the 8' fluorescent lights in my garage years ago > from magnetic ballast to electronic ballast and it was a good > investment for me at the time (used less power, lights started faster, > there was less flicker, less noise, worked better in the cold, erc.). > > A couple years ago I converted all of them again to LED bulbs by just > removing the electronic ballasts and inserting 8' LED bulbs for all > the reasons previously stated. I gave all of the electronic ballasts > to a friend who was still using fluorescent 8' tubes with magnetic > ballasts. These are the bulbs I used and I am completely satisfied > with them: > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074MC1FW3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1 > > > You do not need to remove the ballast, just wire the sockets directly > to the 110VAC lines. It could not be easier. > > Here are 4' LED bulbs that I used for some other locations around the > house in the existing fluorescent sockets for the same reasons: > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074M8KCJ1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 > > > Again, the primary reason for using the replacement LEDs is that you > only have to change the bulbs and bypass the ballast. It is really > easy to do and the technology is the same. You are just reusing the > existing mounts. > > If I were starting fresh, from scratch, yes, I would just use the > direct mount LEDs that Mark is advocating. There is no need for the > reflectors as the LED lights do not emit 360 degree light, they can be > purchased in 90 degree or 120 degree spread if you desire. > > best, > doug > > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 9:42 PM Mark Andy wrote: > > > Howdy, > > They come with clips that you can screw to the ceiling.  There's > no fixture.  I don't know that a fixture would help in any event, > since the LEDs are all surface mounted, so they wouldn't throw > light up toward the ceiling in any event. > > You all should do whatever you like, but after using both these as > well as fluorescents, there's no way I would use a fluorescent > fixture.  I might compare other LED solutions, but if they cost > significantly more than these, I wouldn't bother.  I've been > nothing but impressed / happy with them. > > Mark > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 7:14 PM Bob Spidell > wrote: > > A quick glance doesn't show how they're mounted; anyone know? > Seems like you'd still want a fixture to reflect light. > > > On 1/10/2022 1:42 PM, Mark Andy wrote: >> Howdy, >> >> If I were doing this, I would pretty much just throw away the >> existing stuff and put up these: >> >> https://www.amazon.com/Barrina-8500LM-Daylight-Output-Linkable/dp/B07RKZFD5Z/ref=sr_1_2_sspa >> >> I have a shop that was built around 7 years ago and stuff >> like this wasn't available at this cost, so I went with 4 >> tube fluorescent fixtures.  They've been "fine", but when I >> redid our daily driver parking garage last year I used the >> Barrina lights.  Super easy, nice bright light, and pretty >> cheap. Absolutely no question that's what I'd do if I were >> redoing the shop / what I will do when the time comes when >> the existing fluorescents die. >> >> YMMV. >> >> Mark >> >> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 3:08 PM Bob Spidell >> wrote: >> >> Since I was already 'LED curious,' I did a bit of research: >> >> - there are some LED tubes that require a ballast* ('Type A') >> - there are some LED tubes that require bypassing of the >> ballast ('Type B') >> - there are some LED tubes that work with ballast or >> without/bypassing, with some rewiring* ('Type A+B') >> >> >> If you want the least (initial) hassle, and have 'fresh' >> ballasts--they all fail, eventually--you can plug and >> play the 'A+B' type with a ballast then, when the ballast >> fails you can bypass it, which requires some rewiring >> (apparently, you can leave the dead ballast in place). >> >> >> * Need to check compatibility between tube and ballast. >> >> >> On 1/10/2022 10:48 AM, Ian McFetridge wrote: >>> I used the Feit replacement LED tubes, it sounds like >>> they are similar.  Here are the instructions for the >>> Feit, maybe that will help? >>> https://www.feit.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/T4815_850_AB_LED_10_MANUAL_051019.pdf >>> >>> Best, >>> Ian >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 12:12 PM john niolon >>> wrote: >>> >>> Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech >>> t81636f16-40...4' led tubes...redid all my shop >>> lights and was pleased with them >>> now I want to add some fixtures in another part of >>> shop and my memory has failed... I know I had to >>> rewire fixtures to make them work >>> but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is >>> long gone or lost... >>> Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued >>> and Utilitech web site is a joke    anyone tell me >>> how to wire these bulbs up either with or >>> without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non >>> shunted bulbs...but now sure >>> thanks >>> john >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation  $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell@comcast.net > --------------UA4ePoazLvaolEPVTwKF0fuE Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I thought I had it figured out, but what's the difference in designation between older tubes with 2 small prongs on one end, and the newer style with one fat prong? It seems they're both called 'TX,' with 'X' being 8, 12, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074M8KCJ1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

vs.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074MC1FW3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1


On 1/11/2022 4:57 AM, old dirtbeard wrote:
The primary advantage of converting an existing fluorescent fixture to LED is that it is already there, wired, has the sockets, etc.

I converted all of the 8' fluorescent lights in my garage years ago from magnetic ballast to electronic ballast and it was a good investment for me at the time (used less power, lights started faster, there was less flicker, less noise, worked better in the cold, erc.).

A couple years ago I converted all of them again to LED bulbs by just removing the electronic ballasts and inserting 8' LED bulbs for all the reasons previously stated. I gave all of the electronic ballasts to a friend who was still using fluorescent 8' tubes with magnetic ballasts. These are the bulbs I used and I am completely satisfied with them:

You do not need to remove the ballast, just wire the sockets directly to the 110VAC lines. It could not be easier.

Here are 4' LED bulbs that I used for some other locations around the house in the existing fluorescent sockets for the same reasons:

Again, the primary reason for using the replacement LEDs is that you only have to change the bulbs and bypass the ballast. It is really easy to do and the technology is the same. You are just reusing the existing mounts.

If I were starting fresh, from scratch, yes, I would just use the direct mount LEDs that Mark is advocating. There is no need for the reflectors as the LED lights do not emit 360 degree light, they can be purchased in 90 degree or 120 degree spread if you desire.

best,
doug


On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 9:42 PM Mark Andy <marka@maracing.com> wrote:

Howdy,

They come with clips that you can screw to the ceiling.  There's no fixture.  I don't know that a fixture would help in any event, since the LEDs are all surface mounted, so they wouldn't throw light up toward the ceiling in any event.

You all should do whatever you like, but after using both these as well as fluorescents, there's no way I would use a fluorescent fixture.  I might compare other LED solutions, but if they cost significantly more than these, I wouldn't bother.  I've been nothing but impressed / happy with them.

Mark

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 7:14 PM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
A quick glance doesn't show how they're mounted; anyone know? Seems like you'd still want a fixture to reflect light.


On 1/10/2022 1:42 PM, Mark Andy wrote:
Howdy,

If I were doing this, I would pretty much just throw away the existing stuff and put up these:

https://www.amazon.com/Barrina-8500LM-Daylight-Output-Linkable/dp/B07RKZFD5Z/ref=sr_1_2_sspa

I have a shop that was built around 7 years ago and stuff like this wasn't available at this cost, so I went with 4 tube fluorescent fixtures.  They've been "fine", but when I redid our daily driver parking garage last year I used the Barrina lights.  Super easy, nice bright light, and pretty cheap.  Absolutely no question that's what I'd do if I were redoing the shop / what I will do when the time comes when the existing fluorescents die.

YMMV.

Mark

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 3:08 PM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
Since I was already 'LED curious,' I did a bit of research:

- there are some LED tubes that require a ballast* ('Type A')
- there are some LED tubes that require bypassing of the ballast ('Type B')
- there are some LED tubes that work with ballast or without/bypassing, with some rewiring* ('Type A+B')


If you want the least (initial) hassle, and have 'fresh' ballasts--they all fail, eventually--you can plug and play the 'A+B' type with a ballast then, when the ballast fails you can bypass it, which requires some rewiring (apparently, you can leave the dead ballast in place).


* Need to check compatibility between tube and ballast.


On 1/10/2022 10:48 AM, Ian McFetridge wrote:
I used the Feit replacement LED tubes, it sounds like they are similar.  Here are the instructions for the Feit, maybe that will help?
https://www.feit.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/T4815_850_AB_LED_10_MANUAL_051019.pdf

Best,
Ian

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 12:12 PM john niolon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:
Couple of years ago I bought a box of Utilitech t81636f16-40...4' led tubes...redid all my shop lights and was pleased with them
 
now I want to add some fixtures in another part of shop and my memory has failed... I know I had to rewire fixtures to make them work
but can remember what I did and instruction sheet is long gone or lost...
 
Utilititech was a Lowes brand and now discontinued and Utilitech web site is a joke    anyone tell me how to wire these bulbs up either with or
without ballast..,....seems I remember they were non shunted bulbs...but now sure
 
thanks
john




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--------------UA4ePoazLvaolEPVTwKF0fuE-- --===============7146226635176513509== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7146226635176513509==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 11 10:16:45 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E6DFA0A1B for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 10:16:45 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-40131.protonmail.ch (unknown [185.70.40.131]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A115BA0753 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 10:13:59 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 17:13:51 +0000 s=protonmail2; t=1641921238; bh=69B+euX/KWS/iGgXsWjCiLAE080LtTXS1Qwx56OgyzI=; h=Date:To:From:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: From:To:Cc; b=NCclaJivFtzq1mW1tj5FII+2ocXX1PGAduCHkE6u4OcSo0WzNA/w8sxbJbCpT39Tu 5TonOl7I/ThObk14irFor0II2LSM8mmlgPbIWLPz3qMFonAlm8M/uwuO0hzzXngPwn 1lRm8XtnIc6QxXWYcTJ7+riYYT7nBRxxQI+Q8zRMnBZUDkoxohm5qm5stAbZ6AJUsj +ofXA8McDf5ypZpj4xwIz8Xm33J5a65vsu4ShTK3ERZ4OjvDIavJcr0Xsmhlv4S3ur n7IskwtA62EMttpTr5T1MnGTYZ3eUnWEVTu2bsxX255ebju/PyM5rbU7uoQG5jiGRU tncDsZ8PWRkFA== To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: Donald H Locker References: <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg@johns-desktop> <72c53909-c36d-e711-1532-edd5f353b96b@comcast.net> <32ec4efd-b96e-a7c8-95de-4dcb4541f066@comcast.net> <8f1d93fa-38fa-b6ef-cbde-1a78aa6fe7a6@comcast.net> autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 mailout.protonmail.ch Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net W0knZCBpbnRlbmRlZCB0byByZXBseSB0byB0aGUgbGlzdCBhbmQgY2xpY2tlZCB0aGUgd3Jvbmcg YnV0dG9uLiBIZXJlIGl0CmlzIGFnYWluLCBCb2IuXQoKSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgInRvbWJzdG9uZXMi 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c3ByZWFkIGlmIHlvdSBkZXNpcmUuCj4+Cj4+IGJlc3QsCj4+IGRvdWcKPj4KPj4KCltzbmlwXQoK X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KClNob3AtdGFs a0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldApEb25hdGU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwK U3VnZ2VzdGVkIGFubnVhbCBkb25hdGlvbiAgJDEyLjk2CkFyY2hpdmU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVh bS5uZXQvcGlwZXJtYWlsL3Nob3AtdGFsayBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZQoK VW5zdWJzY3JpYmUvTWFuYWdlOiBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25z L3Nob3AtdGFsay9taGFyY0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldAoK From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 11 11:08:02 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 483BAA09D1 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 11:08:02 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [45.77.149.38]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39A34A0258 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 11:07:43 -0700 (MST) References: <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg@johns-desktop> <72c53909-c36d-e711-1532-edd5f353b96b@comcast.net> <32ec4efd-b96e-a7c8-95de-4dcb4541f066@comcast.net> <8f1d93fa-38fa-b6ef-cbde-1a78aa6fe7a6@comcast.net> To: shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent From: eric@megageek.com Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 13:07:42 -0500 01/11/2022 01:07:44 PM, Serialize complete at 01/11/2022 01:07:44 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============8921922339995856838== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0063955E852587C7_= I just want to jump in here to say that I have tons of 4' and 8' Fl bulbs that are free to however wants to come and pick them up (I can't image it being worth shipping the 8' however.) Moose --=_alternative 0063955E852587C7_= I just want to jump in here to say that I have tons of 4' and 8' Fl bulbs that are free to however wants to come and pick them up (I can't image it being worth shipping the 8' however.)

Moose --=_alternative 0063955E852587C7_=-- --===============8921922339995856838== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8921922339995856838==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 11 11:11:42 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6B14A0B0A for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 11:11:41 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resdmta-a1p-077741.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.103.146.62]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03BFCA066E for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 11:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-a1p-077245.sys.comcast.net ([96.103.145.236]) by resdmta-a1p-077741.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 7J6MnbcEXMB6M7LcFnimky; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 18:11:27 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1641924687; bh=nZrerwP4B7dMBCimT/5ztIaV9UmroMEPdgCSrNkmUaw=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:From: Content-Type; b=XHoummAlH9fXYf3EpRsO4Beo+TdFPdTZ2h6pFu9IKl+g4SSKkQIYkg5FoMSFgP+tk ZxahCkLkuHiphrGqtNcyq0UZZBSF8OHA+tYiug2mDr4aahm+HY7oqaK0HjEHHVCuRO ZNBgxvpuqD69KVaEn0g8Bq395zNQlG8/oDnWONtcuostgYMhDxTdqObp+SpPkd7BOd bZhTfQpD3ZbaS6whHzyUdnGYEDht8/+yb6wamvUVgSmwD8+yU5KDZ5Ayl2uean1vcJ GuAcFJgWheILZqhjLrpQVmUiwI6ScfEfvQFSo/+9nObyRyS/SpHn2AnfS/R6T+b42Z z7o68BBV8NRRA== Received: from [192.168.1.120] ([104.153.206.37]) by resomta-a1p-077245.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id 7Lbonm5cHIXAg7Lc0nfqJj; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 18:11:16 +0000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 10:11:00 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.4.1 Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg@johns-desktop> <72c53909-c36d-e711-1532-edd5f353b96b@comcast.net> <32ec4efd-b96e-a7c8-95de-4dcb4541f066@comcast.net> <8f1d93fa-38fa-b6ef-cbde-1a78aa6fe7a6@comcast.net> From: Bob Spidell Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net VGhhbmtzLCBEb25hbGQuIERvZXMgaGVscC4KCkJ1dCwgSSd2ZSBub3Qgc2VlbiBhbnkgbGFiZWxp bmcgdGhhdCBpbmRpY2F0ZSAnYmktcGluJyBvciBvdGhlcndpc2UgCihkb2Vzbid0IG1lYW4gaXQg d2Fzbid0IHRoZXJlIGJ1dCBJIG1pc3NlZCBpdCkuIERvIHlvdSBqdXN0IGhhdmUgdG8gCmluc3Bl Y3QgYmVmb3JlIGJ1eWluZywgb3IgdHJ1c3QgdGhlIHBob3RvcyBvbiB0aGUgd2Vic2l0ZT/CoCBU aGVzZSBkYXlzIAptb3N0IHNob3cgbHVtZW5zLCBhbmQgY29sb3ItLWFzICdoZWF0JyBpbiBkZWdy ZWVzIEtlbHZpbi0tYW5kLCB1c3VhbGx5LCAKdm9sdGFnZSwgYnV0IG5vICdmb3JtYWwnIGRlc2ln bmF0aW9uOyBtYXliZSBsaWtlICdUMTJCUE5TJyAoJzEuNSBpbmNoZXMgCmRpYW1ldGVyLCBCaS1Q aW4gTmFycm93IFNwYWNpbmcnKT8KCgpPbiAxLzExLzIwMjIgOToxMyBBTSwgRG9uYWxkIEggTG9j a2VyIHdyb3RlOgo+IFtJJ2QgaW50ZW5kZWQgdG8gcmVwbHkgdG8gdGhlIGxpc3QgYW5kIGNsaWNr 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Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0392A0B68 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 11:48:31 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-4316.protonmail.ch (unknown [185.70.43.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E15A0B54 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 11:47:23 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 18:47:19 +0000 s=protonmail2; t=1641926841; bh=QhHcHmBkHgNfQKU/m2pQJlsEmaQzUgckLtsTY1HsQgw=; h=Date:To:From:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: From:To:Cc; b=dBbBzuKF+4szTh2YF3P10G9cQOI86BhCZ/jAL1eerBurgQYNGI4uq+qTve3SAn7zQ unfYVXnYQej9GdMnNQY9KUAbMaKKI1XeyRmu31a1gHxnE8V1/wRh+dW3GhOXOyXWmn kfNaAnC1JYmICPgPDuLSFLKMeIV+C/6sdq8sIwIRQx2sxHQi1W3VXusUx74Prx6v8L erZTYI0rCD1BjXRFDSg/PiTDm4vKd77ii2zsSqDa1m6s0VudPCszJ3bJN+6TgXfB8T K8SRLPp1NSvGYkHtLu1cUTz8T7LPG4p8mqEWrxURjHiutPYxaLdJkl+HEPSpJAtWMi TD6h3StSauDpw== To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: Donald H Locker References: <1UbiNPPptR.bEjZkxgKlSg.ref@johns-desktop> <72c53909-c36d-e711-1532-edd5f353b96b@comcast.net> <32ec4efd-b96e-a7c8-95de-4dcb4541f066@comcast.net> <8f1d93fa-38fa-b6ef-cbde-1a78aa6fe7a6@comcast.net> <44c646bb-33a1-655b-9c85-b45dcf7d4a63@comcast.net> autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 mailout.protonmail.ch Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led tubes and short memory Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net SG9wIG9uIG92ZXIgdG8gdGhlIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lmplc2xlZC5jb20gc2l0ZTsgdGhleSBoYXZl IG1vcmUgaW5mbyB0aGFuCmFtYXpvbiAoYW5kIG1heSBoYXZlIGJldHRlciBwcmljZXM7IGRlcGVu ZHMpIHRvIGd1aWRlIHlvdS4gSWYgdGhlaXIKc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbnMgYXJlIG5vdCBzdWZmaWNp ZW50bHkgY2xlYXIsIGl0IG1pZ2h0IGJlIHdvcnRoIGxvb2tpbmcgYXQKb3RoZXIgbWFudWZhY3R1 cmVycycgcHJvZHVjdHMuIExFRCB0dWJlcyBhcmUgYmVjb21pbmcgbXVjaCBtb3JlIGNvbW1vbi4K Ck9uZSBvdGhlciBzaXRlIEkgbG9va2VkIGF0IHdhcyBodHRwczovL3d3dy52aXJpYnJpZ2h0LmNv bS8KCkRvbmFsZC4KCk9uIDIwMjItMDEtMTEgMToxMSBwLm0uLCBCb2IgU3BpZGVsbCB3cm90ZToK 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aHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L21haWxtYW4vb3B0aW9ucy9zaG9wLXRhbGsvbWhhcmNAYXV0 b3gudGVhbS5uZXQKCg== From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 20 11:49:27 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CCE4A0EF3 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 11:49:27 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ed1-f44.google.com (unknown [209.85.208.44]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6652A0ECF for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 11:49:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ed1-f44.google.com with SMTP id p12so32642186edq.9 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 10:49:13 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=MLBMFWM026fpUTNuziMYwTpB3+H3YObDoeswxegnoZ4=; b=clsKD06WYlyNMWLTAY2K0LtHnJz5tjwuHzYEah8+Jip/e84qIMxnw048FQV6LbRsbS 5PB9+zt6NtTo3M6BN0vQxF+8T8Y6RMMmQtUGJL1QaVsKcHmxGQwnZLjBU/eyGcerVwUY C/1solhuwl4Vs+LK00YPX8D4kNcGjZIczYg/v/iN0r+zoOuLHQEsnd4n9eQr4pHVDyO9 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--0000000000005392f705d607f5f6 Hi guys, Does anybody know what would be the approximate appropriate mesh size of the screens used to filter engine oil feeding out of the oil tanks or frames on old British bikes (e.g., mesh size of 20, 40, 60, etc.)? I am looking at these options from McMaster-Carr: https://www.mcmaster.com/.../low-pressure-bronze-y.../... I have added a paper filter on the return-side, so mostly I really want to filter the debris that may come out of the frame until the paper filter has had a chance to entirely clean the reservoir. Too large of a mesh and it will not stop the debris, of course, but too small and it would restrict/block the gravity flow of the oil. Thank you very much! -- Best, doug --0000000000005392f705d607f5f6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi guys,

Does anybody know what would be the approximate appropriate mesh size = of the screens used to filter engine oil feeding out of the oil tanks or fr= ames on old British bikes (e.g., mesh size of 20, 40, 60, etc.)?
I am looking at these options from McMaster-Ca= rr:
I have added a= paper filter on the return-side, so mostly I really want to filter the deb= ris that may come out of the frame until the paper filter has had a chance = to entirely clean the reservoir.
Too= large of a mesh and it will not stop the debris, of course, but too small = and it would restrict/block the gravity flow of the oil.

Thank you very much!

--
Best,
doug
--0000000000005392f705d607f5f6-- --===============7756370209524773549== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7756370209524773549==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 20 12:04:44 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 385D2A0F37 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 12:04:44 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-lf1-f52.google.com (unknown [209.85.167.52]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9B78A0EF2 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 12:00:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-lf1-f52.google.com with SMTP id s30so25261121lfo.7 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 11:00:23 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=H5gLUcn88qWSQzpsEamGJJU7jZr7akOuJV7zqR9hFDI=; b=oDWTiWbFIcI7+/81VwQDTOJaHawwnyRJGDClw4Ddso0Rpp+Da2zWhnRWknnmfQUuQe RfagN7mdYyW2xi5xK4IiUAQ3Z5Nd5UJVQTyUiaeNCFdfY5Thd1VGB29bmzZnsFuOLbkt uerd/11fr6cwv2tflBM2BxKNJhIzsCTEyvsEX8QDdd119XvAu34qyf7wtG/eBtXRi8Yw a7YIazvVYU+SJ13DtA5dr7I+fU8xqLGV6UHHlIDgZ+gYGIFQs91GWHH3WVptuha2hJep m2QANVA1uO7TSliMF1cN4wV0m7scMnlaiKN6KbgYiIuUvnlLWU67ccR7fOj0mzF31ee7 ni5A== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=H5gLUcn88qWSQzpsEamGJJU7jZr7akOuJV7zqR9hFDI=; b=CFo3A0et1LJzqWEZeRQDzxxoI942o/32wRY9dTb0kmIWEbwK6lATznnvXAENtpe2lI p73y1mD/4EtynJj4TDxJmNkDaIre+L85ypXp1kV5SWc1FAIjCL2Jooh63Ptle9SQYlMp GZ7z1X3k7TJKaTJxyJdeM6FSUVoXrRXQTAV8avqPP6FsMbF1eiATp3zkBH+e1JcXVAql mxTMGIlWt+XSLjTkUaqQXmVMgUm8teUWHXVTmKDfZ5u4alJ9+iGV5VZqwGFTNrvaVTF5 3avOpyQGbjoM6/lfLdZE6rEY9y1/DNDYMnZRmlMg7uImD7s3B46K2U0C3UOJI17sGXmq fAww== pAXcm6JJd2GQJ7alV6X6CZU5lUDFVN7jdyab8Fc= k40mr404897lfv.461.1642705222681; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 11:00:22 -0800 (PST) References: From: Jeff Scarbrough Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 14:00:11 -0500 To: old dirtbeard Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mesh size for engine oil strainer Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7260764100315270843== --00000000000044c87b05d6081d0c The only oil strainer I'm familiar with is the one on air-cooled Volkswagens. Seems like it's something under a millimeter....so less than 0.04" or so. Getting into 20 or 30 mesh, if I read the chart correctly. On Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 13:49 old dirtbeard wrote: > Hi guys, > > Does anybody know what would be the approximate appropriate mesh size of > the screens used to filter engine oil feeding out of the oil tanks or > frames on old British bikes (e.g., mesh size of 20, 40, 60, etc.)? > I am looking at these options from McMaster-Carr: > https://www.mcmaster.com/.../low-pressure-bronze-y.../... > > I have added a paper filter on the return-side, so mostly I really want to > filter the debris that may come out of the frame until the paper filter has > had a chance to entirely clean the reservoir. > Too large of a mesh and it will not stop the debris, of course, but too > small and it would restrict/block the gravity flow of the oil. > > Thank you very much! > > -- > Best, > doug > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com > > --00000000000044c87b05d6081d0c Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The only oil strainer I'm familiar with is the one on= air-cooled Volkswagens.=C2=A0 Seems like it's something under a millim= eter....so less than 0.04" or so.=C2=A0 Getting into 20 or 30 mesh, if= I read the chart correctly.

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 13:49 old dirtbeard <= ;dirtbeard@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
Hi guys,

Does anybody know what would be the approximate appropr= iate mesh size of the screens used to filter engine oil feeding out of the = oil tanks or frames on old British bikes (e.g., mesh size of 20, 40, 60, et= c.)?
I am looking at these options from McMaster-Carr:
=
<= div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:inherit">I have added a paper filter = on the return-side, so mostly I really want to filter the debris that may c= ome out of the frame until the paper filter has had a chance to entirely cl= ean the reservoir.
Too large of a mesh and it will not stop t= he debris, of course, but too small and it would restrict/block the gravity= flow of the oil.

=
Thank you very much!

--
Best,
doug
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
errer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

alk/fishplate@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht= tp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com

--00000000000044c87b05d6081d0c-- --===============7260764100315270843== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7260764100315270843==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 20 12:55:50 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B98F7A0F9B for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 12:55:50 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from st43p00im-ztbu10063601.me.com (unknown [17.58.63.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB28EA0E69 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 12:49:46 -0700 (MST) s=1a1hai; t=1642708186; bh=OE+bRKkkXSRjYTiNldgb1SNIysjTO640nlq71rqbWdM=; h=Content-Type:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=aRmJdAfA5xVg7kJlpmpP5w1QIm+4fm/H+X7c3k0YuMF/3uToFsP2hrGbryaYfts3y HZA+b/PzMYfvqMuN53vcbhqVLrIgYey5H0L+TRAtgVM7/VVmIS0yaMdcTSBaqDWdHZ oKQiQZdg9O6D6ibShJ0MT4OSQMkne9XUW9pdq5wjmFo3kGho/sAVsReAOLayEaDRI6 3tLJFESIBkIArZ9pnG5u4FMuwiEY5tmPMhktby5Ay5gcEk7FZnqeT8f7lLK2NiYtWr Z+wHzI/rSnLlKw425+4/6HzZm4699I0pDnEdw2Nht5Lzwsmz4u8FzA2pP1QYOUjmzq WhgfltgX41n0A== Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [199.38.189.252]) by st43p00im-ztbu10063601.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 16A0A8C0DF7; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 19:49:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Pat Horne Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 13:49:44 -0600 References: To: Jeff Scarbrough =?UTF-8?Q?2903e8d5c8f:6.0.425,18.0.572,17.11.62.513.0000000_definitions?= =?UTF-8?Q?=3D2022-01-14=5F01:2022-01-14=5F01,2020-02-14=5F11,2021-12-02?= =?UTF-8?Q?=5F01_signatures=3D0?= suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 clxscore=1011 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2201200099 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mesh size for engine oil strainer Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3830705267535600783== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-44F1FBD2-9C99-4CCD-A4E8-D99AAF4D59AC charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Funny, the only filter I had any experience with was also old VWs! Peace, Pat Pat Horne=20 We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 20, 2022, at 1:05 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: =EF=BB=BF The only oil strainer I'm familiar with is the one on air-cooled Volkswagens= . Seems like it's something under a millimeter....so less than 0.04" or so.= Getting into 20 or 30 mesh, if I read the chart correctly. On Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 13:49 old dirtbeard wrote: > Hi guys,=20 >=20 > Does anybody know what would be the approximate appropriate mesh size of t= he screens used to filter engine oil feeding out of the oil tanks or frames o= n old British bikes (e.g., mesh size of 20, 40, 60, etc.)?=20 > I am looking at these options from McMaster-Carr:=20 > https://www.mcmaster.com/.../low-pressure-bronze-y.../... > I have added a paper filter on the return-side, so mostly I really want to= filter the debris that may come out of the frame until the paper filter has= had a chance to entirely clean the reservoir.=20 > Too large of a mesh and it will not stop the debris, of course, but too sm= all and it would restrict/block the gravity flow of the oil. >=20 > Thank you very much! >=20 > --=20 > Best, > doug > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc= hive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishpl= ate@gmail.com >=20 _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi= ve as@icloud.com --Apple-Mail-44F1FBD2-9C99-4CCD-A4E8-D99AAF4D59AC charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Funny, the only filter I had any experience= with was also old VWs!

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity

On Jan 20, 2022, at 1:05 PM, Jeff Scarbrou= gh <fishplate@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=
The only oil strainer I'm familiar with is the one on air-= cooled Volkswagens.  Seems like it's something under a millimeter....so= less than 0.04" or so.  Getting into 20 or 30 mesh, if I read the char= t correctly.

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 13:49 old dirtbeard <dirtbeard@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys,

Does anyb= ody know what would be the approximate appropriate mesh size of the screens u= sed to filter engine oil feeding out of the oil tanks or frames on old Briti= sh bikes (e.g., mesh size of 20, 40, 60, etc.)?
I am looking at t= hese options from McMaster-Carr:
I h= ave added a paper filter on the return-side, so mostly I really want to filt= er the debris that may come out of the frame until the paper filter has had a= chance to entirely clean the reservoir.
Too large of a mesh and i= t will not stop the debris, of course, but too small and it would restrict/b= lock the gravity flow of the oil.

Thank you very much!=

--
Best,
doug
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
rrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk= http://autox.team.net/archive

lk/fishplate@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http= ://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.= net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.tea= m.net/archive

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= --Apple-Mail-44F1FBD2-9C99-4CCD-A4E8-D99AAF4D59AC-- --===============3830705267535600783== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3830705267535600783==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 20 15:41:47 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB79CA0FED for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 15:41:47 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ed1-f43.google.com (unknown [209.85.208.43]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19F24A0FE0 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 15:41:27 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ed1-f43.google.com with SMTP id m4so34835577edb.10 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 14:41:27 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9alyjV801HtpKopMZ8EXQPSvoJKXr768XphQ+QBIwRc=; b=H3TGUUE4/OsFVpWEEJ9sBYNWj4LSIoku4wedrBSCGKvQAYxQbzSLapGmna1Cd0yKci ptb4Crqvi0TC0jYaeKVcp8AoTjQub9Cm7fpOI4LcS6nEYS32rv3hrtVHbmteDTRhUgQ9 f4gLsd+ZXJ+nPeb49h0w23e2ywaa6uIpNGCorPtabYvHM6IVvAciO4h9wHT4Jv6yFA61 bWCuqfcojjWAppjMyuALUZU2TBhhLIBQmGLorKt5pCrOxDXoqNYFu0ktPIIcSL3RZhgg lbyJ/R2isVxWtepNLJ8VXs8ZuHFAX9y7tv0pHWmQYtQuT7DH8/GPsp0rfAZqF09esvjD rJ5A== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9alyjV801HtpKopMZ8EXQPSvoJKXr768XphQ+QBIwRc=; b=aOjbB9d3J+mQUOhhFRwHQ7XqpUEpatFHB9jieaG76CkQMiqVWY5yBOIZhy6sgmqiX4 OCRTnFIpSyqhJ+STZp1VUaP4W24TOvieq8KzFd3X/WtFsdVhhc0JuXNDfTNMFN4erqwF ctK1TjxbhbEM0vq1pv3NMSKhHsBhK89FiZSrzBnZuWzR7BAsWGlvCSJqA9aTak7nh0pS 1RzdMvvpizQ3Ki44lBpxQuW+VceA5OIcN6cZl4ugWu+fmemMG3xOwEqgD5T1r2bvSDW2 gZ1Akzk69YRzn6Z94C0Vu5v9VnqPJq+1wLhlQl9PrQ7uBjjLuA86/qyKoZ04KgMLV32u WNbw== R+vqHtwBxNU2a74ieR8dcaX8qJlwQynho7nyqro= jg36mr950681ejc.394.1642718486028; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 14:41:26 -0800 (PST) References: From: old dirtbeard Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 14:41:12 -0800 To: Jeff Scarbrough Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mesh size for engine oil strainer Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7622627712630166513== --000000000000d3678f05d60b3391 Thank you Jeff, that was what I was hoping. Much appreciated! best, doug On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 11:00 AM Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > The only oil strainer I'm familiar with is the one on air-cooled > Volkswagens. Seems like it's something under a millimeter....so less than > 0.04" or so. Getting into 20 or 30 mesh, if I read the chart correctly. > > On Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 13:49 old dirtbeard wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> >> Does anybody know what would be the approximate appropriate mesh size of >> the screens used to filter engine oil feeding out of the oil tanks or >> frames on old British bikes (e.g., mesh size of 20, 40, 60, etc.)? >> I am looking at these options from McMaster-Carr: >> https://www.mcmaster.com/.../low-pressure-bronze-y.../... >> >> I have added a paper filter on the return-side, so mostly I really want >> to filter the debris that may come out of the frame until the paper filter >> has had a chance to entirely clean the reservoir. >> Too large of a mesh and it will not stop the debris, of course, but too >> small and it would restrict/block the gravity flow of the oil. >> >> Thank you very much! >> >> -- >> Best, >> doug >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com >> >> --000000000000d3678f05d60b3391 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you Jeff, that was what I was hoping.=C2=A0

=
Much appreciated!

best,

<= /div>
doug

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 11:00 AM Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate@gmail.com> wrote:
=
T= he only oil strainer I'm familiar with is the one on air-cooled Volkswa= gens.=C2=A0 Seems like it's something under a millimeter....so less tha= n 0.04" or so.=C2=A0 Getting into 20 or 30 mesh, if I read the chart c= orrectly.

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 13:49 old dirtbeard <dirtbeard@gmail.com> wrote:
=
Hi guys, <= /div>

Does anybody know what would be the app= roximate appropriate mesh size of the screens used to filter engine oil fee= ding out of the oil tanks or frames on old British bikes (e.g., mesh size o= f 20, 40, 60, etc.)?
I am looking at these options from McMas= ter-Carr:
I have added = a paper filter on the return-side, so mostly I really want to filter the de= bris that may come out of the frame until the paper filter has had a chance= to entirely clean the reservoir.
=
Too large of a mesh and it = will not stop the debris, of course, but too small and it would restrict/bl= ock the gravity flow of the oil.

Thank you very much= !

--
Best,<= div>doug
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
errer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

alk/fishplate@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht= tp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com

--000000000000d3678f05d60b3391-- --===============7622627712630166513== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7622627712630166513==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 20 16:57:11 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16471A0FFF for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 16:57:11 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-a1p-077724.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.103.146.53]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BE58A0FE5 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 16:56:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-a1p-077050.sys.comcast.net ([96.103.145.228]) by resqmta-a1p-077724.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id AXOdn0d7aaNgsAhIUnFO7r; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 23:56:54 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1642723014; bh=Q2GTRmxc4wsyO2AfkZ699OhOcUSB5U1EvH04FcRfUJQ=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From; b=3Tfso4B99PDaR0LHWMF01FuB34N1MZqoApvMp+k1swRxnFabFQ04UAAw2qR9vi46J ZgSZnpElGHDP8rmwDB5Skc+tJLKDlgDmIjXEmYzJz/ylNX/IoyLrLHriqR+8aO/rbB SUY10WIhoTme15znY1mQd1ZIdNIqZRwIZK1TvCH7qPfGRC+0C2qiPMdpV80zdrqN7K 9Rtt3Uss0rThvDACdDvT8u4+798G0FRKiZO2B79L0+fhXGNUPSsDh3qektfXVilOad zL6kj3gcOhTO19zTb+Q/TL/rtn+6vcfmwxY0A8eJxhXXGCIjp+NzUtpTk1CkQ9DrIJ KMrxuIArowd/Q== Received: from [192.168.1.120] ([104.153.206.37]) by resomta-a1p-077050.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id AhI1nbhZhoHYNAhI2nNqgV; Thu, 20 Jan 2022 23:56:31 +0000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 15:56:26 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.0 Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: From: Bob Spidell Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mesh size for engine oil strainer Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============6994397596986493650== boundary="------------Fy3fD0dgj7Fc3Wvf05xqEl4f" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------Fy3fD0dgj7Fc3Wvf05xqEl4f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Some aircraft use screen oil filter cartridges; I searched a little but, unfortunately nothing I found listed a mesh size. On 1/20/2022 11:49 AM, Pat Horne wrote: > Funny, the only filter I had any experience with was also old VWs! > > Peace, > Pat > > Pat Horne > We support Habitat for Humanity > > > On Jan 20, 2022, at 1:05 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > >  > The only oil strainer I'm familiar with is the one on air-cooled > Volkswagens.  Seems like it's something under a millimeter....so less > than 0.04" or so.  Getting into 20 or 30 mesh, if I read the chart > correctly. > > On Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 13:49 old dirtbeard wrote: > > Hi guys, > Does anybody know what would be the approximate appropriate mesh > size of the screens used to filter engine oil feeding out of the > oil tanks or frames on old British bikes (e.g., mesh size of 20, > 40, 60, etc.)? > I am looking at these options from McMaster-Carr: > https://www.mcmaster.com/.../low-pressure-bronze-y.../... > > I have added a paper filter on the return-side, so mostly I really > want to filter the debris that may come out of the frame until the > paper filter has had a chance to entirely clean the reservoir. > Too large of a mesh and it will not stop the debris, of course, > but too small and it would restrict/block the gravity flow of the oil. > Thank you very much! > > -- > Best, > doug > --------------Fy3fD0dgj7Fc3Wvf05xqEl4f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Some aircraft use screen oil filter cartridges; I searched a little but, unfortunately nothing I found listed a mesh size.


On 1/20/2022 11:49 AM, Pat Horne wrote:
Funny, the only filter I had any experience with was also old VWs!

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Jan 20, 2022, at 1:05 PM, Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate@gmail.com> wrote:


The only oil strainer I'm familiar with is the one on air-cooled Volkswagens.  Seems like it's something under a millimeter....so less than 0.04" or so.  Getting into 20 or 30 mesh, if I read the chart correctly.

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 13:49 old dirtbeard <dirtbeard@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys,
Does anybody know what would be the approximate appropriate mesh size of the screens used to filter engine oil feeding out of the oil tanks or frames on old British bikes (e.g., mesh size of 20, 40, 60, etc.)?
I am looking at these options from McMaster-Carr:
I have added a paper filter on the return-side, so mostly I really want to filter the debris that may come out of the frame until the paper filter has had a chance to entirely clean the reservoir.
Too large of a mesh and it will not stop the debris, of course, but too small and it would restrict/block the gravity flow of the oil.
Thank you very much!

--
Best,
doug


--------------Fy3fD0dgj7Fc3Wvf05xqEl4f-- --===============6994397596986493650== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============6994397596986493650==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 24 15:27:10 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D7DA08C7 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 15:27:10 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic306-25.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (unknown [66.163.189.87]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1444AA04AD for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 15:26:48 -0700 (MST) t=1643063208; bh=kmTPTzKomd+PVZNe2mtmrAfyFzyfj2k2dI4sO/LAtVM=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=M6YWlzO/7NJdZBAtMRyjrvIr4cML7qNfY5ROF4ecnzj4L4g7+nicgALiW1rxABfKN52Xi5ha3xSl7WXlUQ95hej0gC9JYXIJdqSgI4hIIJe6Ia/hCF6Q7Ej0VKfLAS4prvJ4IC6kabqdCG5qqYs1aeQSvzj1dirmTVFqga4JmBQ= t=1643063208; bh=lSjaM3lHVcGwJikpi/ZzP/R1tg1jg5bljboF1tnocZZ=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=N21mKAMT3QJgBjJMJbP9AHq0BBFnOgpfKP0gFc+ormD6omm1hHAeWVl5rPXbeqqQseya63nB0/Ho66J8TGWLrXBvm+llBSGvUwPNqYWc92AUCv23Nk95FcyyszLbSkWQeUUXuul7nAwDcbS1McpN92KK3AP7sC8wpFsnn18uDVUpkFnzN0/j+sTHlOslzRl5ZUroi0wIwd1BW208tqKwnYNzzVCb3/vIYNG2za3ChjPhN88Rg0tw3JMtuYa+GPfrpSnqY0hXvQokEb3vBm+AjaADtD34NTkDuN/uPqRXIZHBus8r5NCEq/1Roc2BOWQrYi70DXk2RHMIbTE3Sgq+jQ== aXEwBkXQv88TFTvVnO2usLLKcMCYcSUswlMTpxovBNFGGaCP5YFpe_pUrZxxJ_ElNyKn_FTMEwcl o0GYo21kUABJDN3sJyMI2j4kD.2.SDLaYxfcj1f7c_YoGfwdnRkGpZCJqh6GAoUJg2NrJ2hqVlHW U5kvJ9xTAcPPWTF0BzrPABIshSG6y9SN0rcBJAEV84TDAV4x0V7gqO8VdvcbLD67ufaYJ770qCgk uZAL9UQBfAKX2k4b9Xqy5KONTdhY7ZMc3lcKyHplkkmUPADaBbW_Hir9ythAiO2ZVnersurDwlnl bWdrEzk3r0Zy97MQEcKzWMzikgvYdd0OGAzo7VweHnIk6_dfnuZLD42X..mIP04Yt0yRzZxlbBR3 3FduQySIWsI.MPg57tFCmYHEbvGCsna2zRLeF1XfsQ1NGdeb69xES_gyCP1AX55xNTOi8GubBhmj fDO0aNrqIkPKwNWi6eAz5ZtBI05g50bnmHW_xEhb.kOob4tX1KL7GcPeh7tA.aSqIr4BMg098zHl YFwM0TkGkePB5liX28R47K6bccWWqtKg1ZQecA.Y8Qt0bih9DjZBBYImiIYMosbovsheWyOM7LpQ v_Otg2CjTMvM8MzuDKdQND6Z0B1R8CzYFW8RkqpAwTvHo7NNkWwzVzIdNz2zME2AgX2RLrrDT_lx 3G94bgM9QwKk8oizm41.8rtSvbZ23XWgZRmbn.8vSnm3EeOSz0SVbZZ6McvH9cnlKHYwlJL2C0HU uAM0EmqiCa_YnDkUzF1JpuoEzuWRdAi9CeLowR3BXsWE2BsgSWcGnlRBvbM8dGpKG_pRbU31UNrk u8SLdqn5LVPvBsDdpbl64um2LQImSxuU7K4btrQoZED57VkCDzHwE.cJoSm_RXkyks4JSQjslZnN 2B.SoQnOt8EdkpHK7XDVWuKsv.hCLnulvAO3zkY9eZ81XxiQo3CqEGayRKDCKjHsC1YruHiwWSzI 1KB3R.SOOKXiAFZFXQwcEyB8ufxfgGG8hx7XqpV0WoF8Qckl75KLSl5hrAxhZdUN8FTkuP.5QO_N 8oZ8AiGAqfkF8qv_JedY5sJjkr5mP4oSg1VOUiQp9ZjzXTYAs8ZKVmZy8_z2Tk92jn_jKfU.jDyb woXKMZE5FDViqBghjvXuA90Ez7gEmdIE94qvDvQQI0_.VwFMMdpcXu14Ld9hvT0xjRl_lExKiy0Q BgcgE6cww5iqPDSFgiEG_MRXQ5YMUswN605ww_UaMCQwRDd0ToLOpnO36cbqU4ODERpViFOhuhXL 2t_YQ3NoymhHkW7nre1AIi7FPP2vEl5RjKnIRALWhZ.EsYlv458WA.I5RVWbVoZ1aFDWeQeUgEWM 2R57s7kF8k849KFfdjCsrMlIdhGJEB6fupts2ZCqnEdVDMjVEIkXxRRVEMngqqJUZkUaIAykqC.m TBmksBaWhauyoCKSiPqb7BmnRPvOMEkiP.HY_TWbmrjUj7Y9sFC5SJnK7cNAYxh6_XBSHLeJppDY .4U.j0NvRaulJ5ZCRkUBKUf452wulh0pcCukyNVbyXRsF0M85.ObAhmKjYK3LE_6lxEnr4FUhOvM GfpgaFzSef60MJiQVm0rOMrc8HbqsDJgEC8H2uAXWgmQNjv1sHFZTcZnayN2q2_Z23REiCufljoI QlMw.e4VqkBNJ7jAkzYigpJvMN3VxaQRXkMvVfM5GvATPq9etb4ptAhSzdHMwNRGdEopNZ6Eelnm gCegmgR9ycQtqVPGzqNLU4NEOufLTQ7bRr5u2tuJiSCLQiUAxaPUkc18Pwlh62RA_oK7_NIxqabS ImpetuZi8bBmVMPsn1ZFie_SkFNEmJRDgNOxN7bUNKaEPImC4MPQTroRJ7VogTrBalj5y2VtRO5S HAKtvpeY7OPKFjKhs8aplsDsa9XyKdDYysHwGnafvw0q4V7BMP_JxRA4m1tTCOcqeJTC2ooEPky3 1BFRMEM36B8IpMgDSq.qRKCMA1SE19C2.oW_dC94CMlzFBPhFzQAxAiZOFHrRb.I3PPiMIEIBbxs JFP1ZxhZpr1w3DVRofeVxZg46zVk2Y2tszlxk0Lpo_X9OghJN2afZ0X6bafQN4Kek4FXPJZDs2fK L6ZgpJFiFlbFkd_Rtqmd28GroU9ZRDrFJOFt12AUG2DYF1sxQehs_iAgmt3Wawn_qAAGtaa1Q3wC IM3CDbgfJNhQCX9XC9I.6Sct4FzuGuY0lOWE- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 22:26:48 +0000 Received: by kubenode544.mail-prod1.omega.gq1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 311a37bcd74a1dd594c3094d6cbbcef1; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 22:26:44 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 16:26:41 -0600 From: "john niolon" To: "shop-talk" User-Agent: OEClassic/3.2.43 (Win10.19043; P; 2021-12-21) References: <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4.ref@johns-desktop> mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Subject: [Shop-talk] tankless/instant water heater Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format --===============8361761138413831291== This is a multi-part message in MIME format --KotkIhZwb8w1c7PAPeexNCap8o=_9BnF2X Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline tired of just cold (really cold) water in the shop sink./..thinking ab= out a=20 tankless/instant water heater. Would like to stay with 120v if possible to avoid additional wiring (me crawling around i= n attic=20 dragging wire with bad knees and hips. I have an available plug within 6 ' of sink pros and cons ? recommendations. =20 This will strictly be a hand washing sink to be used after putting up = my tools (shop content) thanks john --KotkIhZwb8w1c7PAPeexNCap8o=_9BnF2X Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
tired of just cold (really cold) water in= the shop sink./..thinking about a tankless/instant water heater. = ; Would like to stay
with 120v if possible to avoid additional= wiring (me crawling around in attic dragging wire with bad knees and = hips.  I have an available plug
within 6 ' of sink
 
pros and cons ? recommendations.  This will strictly be a hand washing sink to be used after putting u= p my tools  (shop content)
 
thanks
john
--KotkIhZwb8w1c7PAPeexNCap8o=_9BnF2X-- --===============8361761138413831291== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8361761138413831291==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 24 15:31:44 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B780A08C9 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 15:31:44 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [45.77.149.38]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 583F8A089D for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 15:31:27 -0700 (MST) References: <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4@johns-desktop> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent From: eric@megageek.com Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:31:27 -0500 01/24/2022 05:31:27 PM, Serialize complete at 01/24/2022 05:31:27 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tankless/instant water heater Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============8408121632230456538== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 007BBB07852587D4_= I installed one in my garage and it is the way to go. I actually keep it ready to make REALLY hot water. It is awesome for cleaning parts and such as well. Mine is a 120v and was super easy to install and plumb. After about 12/13 years, the TP valve is a little flaky and I'm to busy to change it. Every now and then it starts to leak a little and I just have to turn off the unit, let it cool and turn it back on and its fine. I'm sure the units no are way better then what I have. I can't think of any cons. GO FOR IT!!! (Besides, its an excuse to by another tool.) Moose --=_alternative 007BBB07852587D4_= I installed one in my garage and it is the way to go.  I actually keep it ready to make REALLY hot water. It is awesome for cleaning parts and such as well.

Mine is a 120v and was super easy to install and plumb.

After about 12/13 years, the TP valve is a little flaky and I'm to busy to change it.  Every now and then it starts to leak a little and I just have to turn off the unit, let it cool and turn it back on and its fine.

I'm sure the units no are way better then what I have.

I can't think of any cons.  GO FOR IT!!!  (Besides, its an excuse to by another tool.)

Moose --=_alternative 007BBB07852587D4_=-- --===============8408121632230456538== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8408121632230456538==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 24 15:39:42 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2601DA08FA for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 15:39:42 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ua1-f45.google.com (unknown [209.85.222.45]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64827A08DB for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 15:39:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ua1-f45.google.com with SMTP id c36so33901402uae.13 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 14:39:29 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Kvicg0/1/013C4mAm5w/AW7VCG9Q6awwMAU7GflLHvE=; b=iHZNWdRMOvTHS5CAHEoL1b71OfKI7dhjzR6k8SzL4F27DJ4FS8cOB5yO0IbgYatdjr k/FU3fr9lB+6hGu+58JAvhzOhGo62gUE/Ysb8xXfa/9EMSNEWKyNLgSEAHmb0aNP9joi FFyBf4NnUrnTW0q9Bv12LcCFHPFs4Z0y7ewX14NHGyKawmmmsyC2JoilJinp7yzfPhiu w3R0W8IxexCXDsa9K0NCONMjaY77P/cywXcqnWKWLiGHMozz6lSjMP996Gs6lkZciu1E uBXHDRadWAMBG67e7RcQpIuyiz5fM4wTPzub9cAMaVWGdGjiGGDi2JfKwx2ct6Ocp4Vc 36EQ== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Kvicg0/1/013C4mAm5w/AW7VCG9Q6awwMAU7GflLHvE=; b=mmJWUdbO2+1Pu6NV6EH4E2Zo6iVaMwL2iKX9zjRQC5iQY3v+0gKlwIooQnGRU4a1cH bR4+x8mICF/GSD9AF67Zot6synNja0JBVqZ6ndfyhYfH6IrpC2k6aSwOCMCk74mmJ7zu aUc45WCAOZN3tq0lYx0ZCdjZ+j0uW+Z6xxB7CWGZobSTVv8jzEIep/6ER45TbD/oKgkS oTu/weQtOQbDMyQ2yLEpbf2c7smHke3M5ZjlX5EcLgzsrOegtLUW+GExrMFMmZgjt8+r g/O+NyF4nNOZaNMndY3ffkNZoN+9fkqyGpKy59zF5Sg0bnMqA04Aw7NgbvyMI0/t2jhD BI7Q== Dc2nLAe2i7lH1NcG7PL6PjqX20TdhoyCE2Kocg== v15mr6400433vsr.24.1643063968965; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 14:39:28 -0800 (PST) References: <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4@johns-desktop> From: David Scheidt Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 16:39:17 -0600 To: john niolon , shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tankless/instant water heater Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 4:27 PM john niolon wrote: > > tired of just cold (really cold) water in the shop sink./..thinking about a tankless/instant water heater. Would like to stay > with 120v if possible to avoid additional wiring (me crawling around in attic dragging wire with bad knees and hips. I have an available plug > within 6 ' of sink > > pros and cons ? recommendations. > This will strictly be a hand washing sink to be used after putting up my tools (shop content) > an 1800W tankless water heater (the biggest you can plug into 120V outlet) will have a temperature rise of 25 degrees at 0.5 gpm. (that's the physics of water. they're all going to have similar performance. Anything that claims better is lying or has a tank) That will turn cold water into less cold water, or warm water into hot water. you probably want something with a tank. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 24 15:51:57 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A88BA0923 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 15:51:57 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qt1-f171.google.com (unknown [209.85.160.171]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E26BA08E8 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 15:51:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-qt1-f171.google.com with SMTP id bp39so21507213qtb.6 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 14:51:45 -0800 (PST) h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=4qbBnqKnuE1D4jsq9wd+08Qfa8PUpVmeXPhS+9ZQSKk=; b=EQ6tec1oo1j+cr+/WYXHSiMcg6QXY6BGRcw1iMyNfYUOacwuIWCiBR23I1EzADDwYB ONbdms5IM1VFn3n/++cKDY5FdXTwzMKJGZdVxrL5f8J1taw9Cmc5yrgm+evhFKbCOuLD bHGx/Iq1gDdOF3iJeys22S4lHYZkoonGoYHcl6fokEjdJv7CSb99FCHeOAONcHy8+fo3 a7a/CAEan7SzkhX2oj5ZyYpVfVBFKw25sPbcyoosq02eN0oO5NRUHNr2Mw2iYtmKnwlk pw2y3miL4n2OT16CyA+o9YxU4TGg50ITBuIQmaOOzCvlcRgeX+6NXCPRpZq138EYxfxs Ktcg== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=4qbBnqKnuE1D4jsq9wd+08Qfa8PUpVmeXPhS+9ZQSKk=; b=ylKH0B+YEFTwC5wRr/p3mou36aE3jU44j2lSR82ZmuWfX1YxSKdxJZO8JpyEWiNGvU +oln+LzfPz2VhCnqOk/SOc1fFjixkk/GTr2EaXd4BmlgmH9dEUS1eEoqiSOSbTD2/mWd py6f1w1MMp3iYjKaoD8eG3NVsJbst52jLKeqnjLIHhyt3mJ9tspyARZjHEwnyopFnLjP udVz5obU2DkXDENnnuwR+l5EOjfewUBL/TFJRSnBboWQQ0aFNRBKlAIWukYufMpDKu8R F5krtwYUl89xeqTiMd2BqNQeVZpdHKeKVOZ5auG5rRVz7lUM6V3BV8IWaq32WCbmmUDx OU5A== LGvbcqRXTBKHZ3VN0mB1sM2mzTFxLDg= t13mr14540647qtw.282.1643064704509; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 14:51:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from hpenvy2 (c-68-49-44-22.hsd1.mi.comcast.net. [68.49.44.22]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j20sm8058075qtx.17.2022.01.24.14.51.43 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 24 Jan 2022 14:51:44 -0800 (PST) From: To: "'Shop Talk'" References: <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4@johns-desktop> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:51:42 -0500 Thread-Index: AQMZ8c2J3zurTYxX58rC9BS7I6HWlwJFKqcLqdzcFNA= Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tankless/instant water heater Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============0783530713338690145== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0148_01D8114B.0BE92DC0" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0148_01D8114B.0BE92DC0 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just returned from an extended trip to my step-mother=E2=80=99s house, = which has tankless instant hot water heaters [one for the kitchen and = one for the two bathrooms]. I=E2=80=99m a convert! =20 ---------------- All the best, =20 Al Fuller =20 From: Shop-talk On Behalf Of john = niolon Sent: Monday, January 24, 2022 5:27 PM To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] tankless/instant water heater =20 tired of just cold (really cold) water in the shop sink./..thinking = about a tankless/instant water heater. Would like to stay with 120v if possible to avoid additional wiring (me crawling around in = attic dragging wire with bad knees and hips. I have an available plug within 6 ' of sink =20 pros and cons ? recommendations. =20 This will strictly be a hand washing sink to be used after putting up my = tools (shop content) =20 thanks john ------=_NextPart_000_0148_01D8114B.0BE92DC0 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I just returned from an = extended trip to my step-mother=E2=80=99s house, which has tankless = instant hot water heaters [one for the kitchen and one for the two = bathrooms]. I=E2=80=99m a convert!

 

----------------

All the best,

 

Al = Fuller

 

From: Shop-talk = <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of john = niolon
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2022 5:27 PM
To: = shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: = [Shop-talk] tankless/instant water heater

 

tired of just cold (really = cold) water in the shop sink./..thinking about a tankless/instant water = heater.  Would like to stay

with = 120v if possible to avoid additional wiring (me crawling around in attic = dragging wire with bad knees and hips.  I have an available = plug

within 6 ' of = sink

 

pros = and cons ? recommendations. 
This will strictly be a hand = washing sink to be used after putting up my tools  = (shop content)

 

thanks

john

------=_NextPart_000_0148_01D8114B.0BE92DC0-- --===============0783530713338690145== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0783530713338690145==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 24 17:04:48 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AB36A09A5 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:04:48 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net (unknown [217.70.183.200]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6D17A04E7 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:04:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BE81620003; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 00:04:32 +0000 (UTC) From: Jim Franklin Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 19:04:30 -0500 References: <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4@johns-desktop> To: David Scheidt Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tankless/instant water heater Cc: shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > On Jan 24, 2022, at 5:39 PM, David Scheidt wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 4:27 PM john niolon wrote: >> >> tired of just cold (really cold) water in the shop sink./..thinking about a tankless/instant water heater. Would like to stay >> with 120v if possible to avoid additional wiring (me crawling around in attic dragging wire with bad knees and hips. I have an available plug >> within 6 ' of sink >> >> pros and cons ? recommendations. >> This will strictly be a hand washing sink to be used after putting up my tools (shop content) >> > > an 1800W tankless water heater (the biggest you can plug into 120V > outlet) will have a temperature rise of 25 degrees at 0.5 gpm. > (that's the physics of water. they're all going to have similar > performance. Anything that claims better is lying or has a tank) > That will turn cold water into less cold water, or warm water into hot > water. you probably want something with a tank. > I'm pretty sure that you can change the 120 outlet to a 240 3 prong outlet and use the existing wiring, as long as you re-wire it in the breaker box to have a 240 breaker and stay within the current limits. A dumb heater will not need a neutral so the 14/2 or 12/2 (with ground) will work unless I'm having a senior moment. That said I think for hand washing a 120v heater is plenty as long as you keep the flow down. Personally, I know me and I would start using it for more than hand washing, so I'd go bigger. Actually I'd get a small tank heater and insulate top & botton with rigid foam and sides with a blanket. And the pipes too. Let us know what you end up doing. jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 24 20:43:30 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC333A09E1 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 20:43:30 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ua1-f46.google.com (unknown [209.85.222.46]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33EEEA0541 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 20:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ua1-f46.google.com with SMTP id b37so17300734uad.12 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 19:43:01 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=WdJOsvjzxb+lwNPUT5grljJIZ73r3eJZUJ9h2hWcTGQ=; b=Dz3oYVC8QO9SegVb7e6Ing9TSyTFROpnaLfSg9c0SMjtrurK+1d4Atg85fUzzQYIgn jaCwIm0cNGQR3/c4YWWTI4EkfXkLOwK+r0wTjS8Gvx7+c/hkkOnCHmX0n/39M5z8NIMA 2PYtutvxqh0tUXAio/TF/QznbxMVFQracCnsKFnE5bF6wjnlcF2OQXdh9lvZwhp2Knlw Nez71D9uMCvZJFiFGr2vk8p5ttig3SEx8POebz4PYpYz+zBl82OILIBY+5jQfUZCv8Kd 8UEKazNQzF11lxh24/awA44OjZrntZIlrYVSQzw0RO/fxMk44QJwV+DTjT3yJvDNqKN6 yo7w== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=WdJOsvjzxb+lwNPUT5grljJIZ73r3eJZUJ9h2hWcTGQ=; b=yPwj267MeahjPi4LYVrJDSbcXqXx63M9K6RuPwtHG0QpCV95mOtSYliQJ6Co59FLvY SguWijQTbMBKR8N15l2qj/CBeWfElqfzhGB0sxhtD8TU8z1K2N5e5n5Q26SWhekLJBH9 /ayyqaef4cGvjj1hlpZSO2SRiqUHlVi3pE5hLR5+FKbqaA1skqvC2dKFcsEue38ggRDA 0/3oET5f2uL84K8waerQccFi8MZlolssD975xDZNfY5uzSssH5vB8A58fd7qbqyGhH1j lpXjeM/TVlTZPUqaYQFnC05U+zurZUzlpe/eUYZ5YmniNSuRt3lZBTZBKJg8REd6LcI3 8zWA== AWGeTqOaB3EtSspC2aWLvgYdP+j4xtaELj6XwQ== Mon, 24 Jan 2022 19:43:00 -0800 (PST) References: <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4@johns-desktop> <9747E7E2-2DE9-4B4C-8F3A-03C9C4A8F820@groupwbench.org> From: David Scheidt Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 21:42:49 -0600 To: Jim Franklin Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tankless/instant water heater Cc: shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 6:04 PM Jim Franklin wrote: > > > > > On Jan 24, 2022, at 5:39 PM, David Scheidt wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 4:27 PM john niolon wrote: > >> > >> tired of just cold (really cold) water in the shop sink./..thinking about a tankless/instant water heater. Would like to stay > >> with 120v if possible to avoid additional wiring (me crawling around in attic dragging wire with bad knees and hips. I have an available plug > >> within 6 ' of sink > >> > >> pros and cons ? recommendations. > >> This will strictly be a hand washing sink to be used after putting up my tools (shop content) > >> > > > > an 1800W tankless water heater (the biggest you can plug into 120V > > outlet) will have a temperature rise of 25 degrees at 0.5 gpm. > > (that's the physics of water. they're all going to have similar > > performance. Anything that claims better is lying or has a tank) > > That will turn cold water into less cold water, or warm water into hot > > water. you probably want something with a tank. > > > > I'm pretty sure that you can change the 120 outlet to a 240 3 prong outlet and use the existing wiring, as long as you re-wire it in the breaker box to have a 240 breaker and stay within the current limits. A dumb heater will not need a neutral so the 14/2 or 12/2 (with ground) will work unless I'm having a senior moment. You can do that if there's nothing else on that circuit, and you can easily change the breaker. a 20A 240V circuit lets you install a 4000 or 4200 W heater, which gives a heat rise of 65F at 0.5 gpm. That's probably enough temperature rise, even here where the incoming water is currently less than 40F, but that's pretty low flow. If you're somewhere where 'cold' water is 60F, then it looks a lot better. (a gallon a minute is plenty for washing hands, it's slow if you want to fill a sink or bucket). It'll take a long time for the efficiency of tankless heater to pay for the required changes though, and a plug in tank heater is cheap. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 25 07:40:33 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FD8DA0A5D for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 07:40:33 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qt1-f181.google.com (unknown [209.85.160.181]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9324A0A0B for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 07:40:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-qt1-f181.google.com with SMTP id c19so23819658qtx.3 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 06:40:15 -0800 (PST) h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=IwDN85aiFywKjovH6Ee2QJmxpR8pyhM9SWFeyjkmOvQ=; b=XF+4+l7lkDMOfn2COu6DWq/0q/sWYJhIUTmC5rjL9FT7+XFk7R8dzDyECBepSFQhgP MllV1xAqOT1Sk9YGgIL2RBWE7+vVHCqTfcR2t03WoLtlCHXrEFXF013lNy1Tv4diHCVs YL22ii57RVBWbOVOGx2Nf2ZfoaZLRXYGcUA6Q7UiEuVY5ZCD2akh9RpYbV552IcJIQMD yEaUD+fkAE+4Oa+ePjCplC5m/myNEHRX6TSSM4Cyq0DRbS7AOfuG8YGi8n2RzOvAPa56 i/g7BaUzL7I6arrS96AngMVhdoHbEMPLvNx6qMfi9XcDD21MnHJOrmXTI59Wv+Uglpcb nbkw== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=IwDN85aiFywKjovH6Ee2QJmxpR8pyhM9SWFeyjkmOvQ=; b=Z458wNts6Pk592ppY2mnW0cGsfAuJ5Y5zkU74SJUELhg/zdgp/+Q24dRZPPkB41EhZ 1ZcqBg8wi6IlXvMnfjk+eEPACVqH3vQj+2Za1TYo4v8xMiFtxoRP2l4JS+351P8u+Q3x grpU1JrMyN6wugiu6cF2gvFn1RUmu2nUHK5O2yPnuDsMAbiEv/vJkyTqR9CErQD2xLxm B0cmyT2IXzY05zWUagZPcHv7TCdOSejBpzS6+fVkfgLqUyPqhrsn0Z2TkeIHnL0jMlPw 9iN7EgRFle5yf5OlnIJKbA4znNMdY+b1QkTUFzUwk/soN7GnUEZGd9DoFinK7itXnTAS 4eMg== r81ba1UlwrDNrXiuGTD4Jmw= Tue, 25 Jan 2022 06:40:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from macbook-pro-3.lan (ool-4350ed26.dyn.optonline.net. [67.80.237.38]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bi30sm9139317qkb.132.2022.01.25.06.40.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 25 Jan 2022 06:40:14 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 09:40:06 -0500 To: john niolon References: <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4@johns-desktop> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tankless/instant water heater Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8898759612682816808== boundary="Apple-Mail=_A3734843-DF53-4493-B1AB-13C92C306ACB" --Apple-Mail=_A3734843-DF53-4493-B1AB-13C92C306ACB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=us-ascii I got tired of waiting for hot water in my kitchen (my dissatisfaction = with my Rheem tankless water heater is a subject for a different day) = and installed a 7 gallon Bosch water heater in the basement, as close to = the kitchen faucet as I could get. It makes an incredible difference = and my wife considers it one of the best improvements I have made to our = house in years. I am inclined to agree with her. The 7 gallon version = has to be hard-wired to a dedicated circuit, but the 2.5 and 4 gallon = versions can be plugged in. One of those should meet your needs pretty = easily. Here is a link to the Bosch units, although I am sure other = brands will work just as well. = https://smile.amazon.com/Bosch-Mini-Tank-Tronic-3000-ES4/dp/B0148O65IE/ref= =3Dsr_1_2_sspa?crid=3D1GEI41I05EXPQ&keywords=3Dunder%2Bsink%2Bwater%2Bheat= er&qid=3D1643121197&sprefix=3Dunder%2Bsink%2Bwater%2Bheater%2Caps%2C72&sr=3D= 8-2-spons&spLa=3DZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyTzhaMk9QNzlZMlhDJmVuY3J5cHRlZ= ElkPUExMDEwNzk5M0RPREhQQTVYSllVUiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDIxNTQ4MzEwRUQyUUZ= BTThRSyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0Nsa= WNrPXRydWU&th=3D1 Jim > On Jan 24, 2022, at 5:26 PM, john niolon wrote: >=20 > tired of just cold (really cold) water in the shop sink./..thinking = about a tankless/instant water heater. Would like to stay > with 120v if possible to avoid additional wiring (me crawling around = in attic dragging wire with bad knees and hips. I have an available = plug > within 6 ' of sink > =20 > pros and cons ? recommendations. =20 > This will strictly be a hand washing sink to be used after putting up = my tools (shop content) > =20 > thanks > john > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine@gmail.com >=20 --Apple-Mail=_A3734843-DF53-4493-B1AB-13C92C306ACB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=us-ascii I = got tired of waiting for hot water in my kitchen (my dissatisfaction = with my Rheem tankless water heater is a subject for a different day) = and installed a 7 gallon Bosch water heater in the basement, as close to = the kitchen faucet as I could get.  It makes an incredible = difference and my wife considers it one of the best improvements I have = made to our house in years. I am inclined to agree with her.  The 7 = gallon version has to be hard-wired to a dedicated circuit, but the 2.5 = and 4 gallon versions can be plugged in.  One of those should meet = your needs pretty easily.  Here is a link to the Bosch units, = although I am sure other brands will work just as well.
https://smile.amazon.com/Bosch-Mini-Tank-Tronic-3000-ES4/dp/B01= 48O65IE/ref=3Dsr_1_2_sspa?crid=3D1GEI41I05EXPQ&keywords=3Dunder%2Bsink= %2Bwater%2Bheater&qid=3D1643121197&sprefix=3Dunder%2Bsink%2Bwater%= 2Bheater%2Caps%2C72&sr=3D8-2-spons&spLa=3DZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVy= PUEyTzhaMk9QNzlZMlhDJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUExMDEwNzk5M0RPREhQQTVYSllVUiZlbmNyeX= B0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDIxNTQ4MzEwRUQyUUZBTThRSyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249= Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=3D1

Jim
On Jan = 24, 2022, at 5:26 PM, john niolon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:

tired of just cold = (really cold) water in the shop sink./..thinking about a = tankless/instant water heater.  Would like to stay
with 120v if possible = to avoid additional wiring (me crawling around in attic dragging wire = with bad knees and hips.  I have an available plug
within 6 ' of = sink
 
pros and cons ? = recommendations. 
This will strictly be a hand = washing sink to be used after putting up my tools = (shop content)
 
thanks
john
= _______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: =  $12.96
Archive: = http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine@gmail.com


= --Apple-Mail=_A3734843-DF53-4493-B1AB-13C92C306ACB-- --===============8898759612682816808== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8898759612682816808==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 25 08:09:54 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C7D9A074B for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 08:09:54 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-lj1-f176.google.com (unknown [209.85.208.176]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6F61A03B5 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 08:09:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-lj1-f176.google.com with SMTP id c15so11497846ljf.11 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 07:09:36 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oRFkRI1ZCt+C0cVNsd3+nU6ZX4pR6nj3jQohz1y8I3A=; b=SJmez2BdgO4GOJ7m0kmkwfk2Ts6m74gq0d4PU+4csMQdNIT1aBkdHyBqIMIDacCbes XSnLex3t+ZuvxnOKOOOS5Dv1E/Yn0bBRfKRSLKOIm3rXqWdHgV/N8N4G9htlbb8rDl8C j1WejgE9fT6cRqkTdkOtYubDk3RxQP8CzExH1SLLT7eMGXqpdxXu3bRv1zDfLdnJJ2/M VFUL79AwtVmnfTL2HYM7vFR/OE4aR6Fj8j6S4jOULypv1nj8m+GCibgTDIjIjcKoxRmk RWS4Ssu1ySoVquHLIl6CVZf8Pis1arLNoZBa5MSLit+QlMsVi1bpj5tE4VF4E+zmrb6E 28bQ== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oRFkRI1ZCt+C0cVNsd3+nU6ZX4pR6nj3jQohz1y8I3A=; b=bVGr1h236/uEYcvlM6DahSGmTYLVa1Q5qVX1XogUzufjwFyDULORoGxPDf7CP4ivEd /7zbwfrUvzuyo+VnoVg5LS7XciGYUZuTe5qgV3LaSt0mFO1h0eM0EuMu/QbKRMBZbL8r vKwCSJx66mjHpi6VEFRZGJlLfHUZ5Nwn18rRPILu86tEW8buqGIeLEVPyeAZD4avvwXA w3NjoAcgbOZpdd9Ot0elYH5RXaflqzKvNlj3sZve7GpG2fOUjdaI4SNCkxLspz7Lu7sG E4PP1iyVxWP+Fi4onzHyhlfnhy0m4eHFSwHuYK9UuH0AHJaC19D6bNAd+JBxD8evcXn/ yVjw== t4pM2f0wy9TwFcD3y7pII6FKYVFz/wdbjHCCySQ= Tue, 25 Jan 2022 07:09:35 -0800 (PST) References: <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4@johns-desktop> <16F494C6-A6A2-4743-9A1C-8996238C89B2@gmail.com> From: Jeff Scarbrough Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 10:09:24 -0500 To: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tankless/instant water heater Cc: Shop Talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net So, is this installed in the cold water line? Our master bath is a long way from the primary water heater, and it takes a while for warm water to make its way up. But I'd have to plumb the tank outlet into the regular hot water supply or take 4 minute showers. Or plumb it with a hot water supply... On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:40 AM Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote: > > I got tired of waiting for hot water in my kitchen (my dissatisfaction with my Rheem tankless water heater is a subject for a different day) and installed a 7 gallon Bosch water heater in the basement, as close to the kitchen faucet as I could get. It makes an incredible difference and my wife considers it one of the best improvements I have made to our house in years. I am inclined to agree with her. The 7 gallon version has to be hard-wired to a dedicated circuit, but the 2.5 and 4 gallon versions can be plugged in. One of those should meet your needs pretty easily. Here is a link to the Bosch units, although I am sure other brands will work just as well. > > https://smile.amazon.com/Bosch-Mini-Tank-Tronic-3000-ES4/dp/B0148O65IE/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=1GEI41I05EXPQ&keywords=under%2Bsink%2Bwater%2Bheater&qid=1643121197&sprefix=under%2Bsink%2Bwater%2Bheater%2Caps%2C72&sr=8-2-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyTzhaMk9QNzlZMlhDJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUExMDEwNzk5M0RPREhQQTVYSllVUiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDIxNTQ4MzEwRUQyUUZBTThRSyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1 > > Jim > > On Jan 24, 2022, at 5:26 PM, john niolon wrote: > > tired of just cold (really cold) water in the shop sink./..thinking about a tankless/instant water heater. Would like to stay > with 120v if possible to avoid additional wiring (me crawling around in attic dragging wire with bad knees and hips. I have an available plug > within 6 ' of sink > > pros and cons ? recommendations. > This will strictly be a hand washing sink to be used after putting up my tools (shop content) > > thanks > john > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine@gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 25 08:37:59 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFCA4A04C9 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 08:37:59 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qv1-f50.google.com (unknown [209.85.219.50]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBE12A0130 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 08:37:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-qv1-f50.google.com with SMTP id t7so25622386qvj.0 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 07:37:45 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=vtftr8WzAzYW99rhevdeDfa3rAVBxOAa3D4h+3TkW+A=; b=Xi1x6OWo8NfidKo+/a6oilC/4oLqVDQHRL5rGwZmJAR/iWo5SyIkW4zRaMD/eIvNkb JMDFW8ChoEOgnRO1URBL58g7nsFCfDUEkJgmBhkcfAowAtXqxRo6n9yr8Ujtdta0YdBL PnsQqtFVrehU7TJQ28Z+noqVQfFvxsrEvl32VBs2rP5x61e5PX4N7ALKtVeB7MYaEw8f sMyOjyRUVNnRk/OxeQ64dLd9pPuGOkZFBwvyiiVJJsHxr2GKW10vk31C75te5YIHx+rV jOwU9yiN42rapnz7pEJT4ziFyKZk6zeuHzS1eKfMLh+gObsM1L+gsTFwCCBumW1CbicK dKDg== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=vtftr8WzAzYW99rhevdeDfa3rAVBxOAa3D4h+3TkW+A=; b=ohQEzb8wDZdBfYh2gVPYrDepwJt604680/hIyTsrIlLQLHgbFGqoA1N003WXAbNhDx GDim/QJ/zhpqZngy0d0nVSvZY+3zdzwkn26Y3ocE5UXvqXC8igv2w84b4XWpBlaVFqn+ Ki9am4N8gA29vQeYEf4oGflYjD9yOqSvU20QUiMzBT0nSOA93BXnH5uMAS5hgqLio2WW vWZuuT2rtubxdQswGl0+Nc9x+xVs91BsFlg5MlYWx4v4Ae1KR8HUlIK/74loCtJtyMQs C15ntyDm0tA9uh9Yu7iM3U25OEcu93W95/0AIlRq0vlkQSTfl7aB7V9Hf5SrFCvO+uq5 e9qA== pOE5mUsRvU1/nlOxfGLLQlea+Hs1XRc= Tue, 25 Jan 2022 07:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from macbook-pro-3.lan (ool-4350ed26.dyn.optonline.net. [67.80.237.38]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bi30sm9222007qkb.132.2022.01.25.07.37.43 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 25 Jan 2022 07:37:44 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 10:37:36 -0500 References: <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4@johns-desktop> <16F494C6-A6A2-4743-9A1C-8996238C89B2@gmail.com> To: Jeff Scarbrough Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tankless/instant water heater Cc: Shop Talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net SXQgaXMgcGx1bWJlZCB0byB0aGUgaG90IHdhdGVyIGxpbmUuICBUaGVzZSBoZWF0ZXJzIGhhdmUg dHdvIHBvdGVudGlhbCB1c2VzOiBhcyBhIHNvbGUgc291cmNlIG9mIGhvdCB3YXRlciAoZS5nLiwg Zm9yIGEgc2luayB3aGVyZSB0aGVyZSBpc27igJl0IGFub3RoZXIgaG90IHdhdGVyIHNvdXJjZSkg b3IgYXMgc3VwcGxlbWVudGFsIGhlYXQgZm9yIHNpdHVhdGlvbnMgbGlrZSBtaW5lLiAgRm9yIHVz LCBpdCBpcyByZWFsbHkganVzdCBmb3IgaGFuZCB3YXNoaW5nIGFuZCBkaXNoIHdhc2hpbmcgYW5k 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86331A07D9 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 09:14:25 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from chumdrop.sackheads.org (unknown [159.203.76.21]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E582A0685 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 09:14:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chumdrop.sackheads.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A662B1557D3 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:14:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from chumdrop.sackheads.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (chumdrop.sackheads.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cb3K0aWAAzt6 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:14:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.4] (cpe-96-28-86-122.kya.res.rr.com [96.28.86.122]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jimmie@sackheads.org) by chumdrop.sackheads.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7EC141557C5 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:14:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:14:03 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.0 Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4@johns-desktop> <16F494C6-A6A2-4743-9A1C-8996238C89B2@gmail.com> From: Jimmie Mayfield Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tankless/instant water heater Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 1/25/22 09:40, Jim Stone wrote: > I got tired of waiting for hot water in my kitchen (my dissatisfaction > with my Rheem tankless water heater is a subject for a different day) I'm curious...what bad experiences did you have with your tankless heater? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 25 09:46:05 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FDF7A0A1D for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 09:46:05 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from ms11p00im-qufo17281801.me.com (unknown [17.58.38.55]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E316A0998 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 09:45:38 -0700 (MST) s=1a1hai; t=1643129138; bh=d+50W7EUFbvBwtznVULcPr21x3XkrtA0tL8AOOExd4k=; h=Content-Type:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=t7fsVua9GgprQGzJAMnqxOGpSig2LbpHCMy5zpi6NplxZbtLm2htXO59VexrTtbAA l7rIa5HN1AhxhwJY0Tk/r3DHJUc8nZ4J21VLJPw6vb8QHY8o/Cq1JHAdiDi9xBYw4P RWMfpw5dGGIvaqcgiiCYSpxRNM/hLcbroi4ksI6Bzt2Zi/AD+VXAh7N1jRCoJG43KQ 3jZmXv/SsBmwKhMZMisbMCFqpdpVluYDXGNlX31WGLi3zP8IUEheMgpDfe5lGYg6q8 JpcjsNLdFGRCyX4Uv86A+F2NO/s39PFWjIcYXIl3xV5PpSGbbyQItJXVQCT1mo7xB4 32ZQl2td9a5PA== Received: from smtpclient.apple (mobile-166-176-123-203.mycingular.net [166.176.123.203]) by ms11p00im-qufo17281801.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1670EAC0774; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 16:45:38 +0000 (UTC) From: Pat Horne Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 10:45:36 -0600 References: To: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> =?UTF-8?Q?2903e8d5c8f:6.0.425,18.0.816,17.0.605.474.0000000_definitions?= =?UTF-8?Q?=3D2022-01-18=5F01:2022-01-14=5F01,2022-01-18=5F01,2020-01-23?= =?UTF-8?Q?=5F02_signatures=3D0?= phishscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2201250105 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot water to fixture Cc: Shop Talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net VGhpcyBpcyBvZmYgdGFyZ2V0IGZyb20gdGhlIE9QLiAKCknigJl2ZSBzZWVuIGhvbWVzL3Nob3Bz IHdoZXJlIGl0IGNhbiB0YWtlIG1pbnV0ZXMgZm9yIGhvdCB3YXRlciB0byByZWFjaCBhIGZpeHR1 cmUuIE9uZSBESVkgZml4IGZvciB3YXN0aW5nIHdhdGVyIEkgcmFuIGFjcm9zcyB3YXMgdG8gYWRk 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bh=qdYUK0qwy1m72fUFzfKVtg2PKgTk9ml9uoQEXEbNPbE=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:Date:Message-Id:To; b=vN2lzIHkGozBPul55UnfBAJUce65UC+1Asj6jf/W6Ld08X3T0Gu0UWsHxsdIkWrQ6 YZViV5FehC/RkVT4fdXN+e0UWbYBfjukDhWll/3/CjlwIjBju3F1RaRTR6ULuQb5dW NgFXPE9Vt17W4Ho2IuqM65tMzBAguoaPU10HVrfc464LobL7UCFQzncGwRjClMW1Em duAF9Tz7cK7X9eCbsAesjY07LgFS8BHEai+i5vt2z/w5bCR0Pp7OVBkI8aZ/Lhx/eK Pd+nCQCxrxbsx1HCUKeou5+1f12JJIG3ARFgTPrUekhUNwvg+dgZ+4XAq5oj9GNyH3 Ycnxbxf4yxHjQ== Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-24-0-67-152.hsd1.nj.comcast.net [24.0.67.152]) by mr85p00im-zteg06022001.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 193A0800D46; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 01:57:40 +0000 (UTC) From: Thomas Coradeschi Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 20:57:38 -0500 References: To: Pat Horne =?UTF-8?Q?2903e8d5c8f:6.0.425,18.0.816,17.0.605.474.0000000_definitions?= =?UTF-8?Q?=3D2022-01-18=5F01:2022-01-14=5F01,2022-01-18=5F01,2020-01-23?= =?UTF-8?Q?=5F02_signatures=3D0?= spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2201260005 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot water to fixture Cc: shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net WWVwLiBNZXRsdW5kIETigJltYW5kLiBJIGhhdmUgb25lIGluIG15IG1hc3RlciBiYXRocm9vbS4g V29ydGggZXZlcnkgcGVubnkuCgrigJQKVG9tIENvcmFkZXNjaGkKdGpjb3JhQGljbG91ZC5jb20K Cgo+IE9uIDI1IEphbiAyMDIyLCBhdCAxMTo0NSBBTSwgUGF0IEhvcm5lIDxwYXRpbnRleGFzQGlj bG91ZC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgo+IAo+IFRoaXMgaXMgb2ZmIHRhcmdldCBmcm9tIHRoZSBPUC4gCj4g Cj4gSeKAmXZlIHNlZW4gaG9tZXMvc2hvcHMgd2hlcmUgaXQgY2FuIHRha2UgbWludXRlcyBmb3Ig aG90IHdhdGVyIHRvIHJlYWNoIGEgZml4dHVyZS4gT25lIERJWSBmaXggZm9yIHdhc3Rpbmcgd2F0 ZXIgSSByYW4gYWNyb3NzIHdhcyB0byBhZGQgYSBzbWFsbCBwdW1wLCBjaGVjayB2YWx2ZSAmIGEg Yml0IG9mIGNvbnRyb2wgY2lyY3VpdHJ5IGF0IHRoZSBmaXh0dXJlLiBQbHVtYiB0aGUgcHVtcCAm 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25 19:01:05 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81A9A0BDA for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:01:05 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nmtao102.oxsus-vadesecure.net (unknown [51.81.61.66]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91800A0BC6 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:00:48 -0700 (MST) A4Dc8=; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=earthlink.net; h=from:reply-to:subject: date:to:cc:resent-date:resent-from:resent-to:resent-cc:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post: list-owner:list-archive; q=dns/txt; s=dk12062016; t=1643162448; x=1643767248; b=V8xzqMsph0nHxqK7cQVvOM23ItqW8og2dsMuo2vhvk49nmFKgzDnVoO fZgq6+SBOD+mGYQ5NXyXgMs7YNObPCejbyGilHSNJOgWi71kjz+pmkfRrpe9AwiV1vyYOr7 G5vKQ0YVRubOU/0MafjjmJqb/PthHH7A4fq125bERH+ajTF2N8G7MmFTPb4L9aDzjbpJQOo cYqXgx1hIi8MrXXmgulmGehjt8/YKG1RjLP+zvtevzVnpgppC3jeXYRNntgAhNOmpT0pSGt hTZwox6jwyxC3X3+6jUXiXFWlC5PsTeSoyXlGRdV/mRN6x5DJixTNj0rZkOjErncYoaExO+ O5A== Received: from [192.168.1.241] ([99.9.152.26]) by smtp.oxsus-vadesecure.net ESMTP oxsus1nmtao02p with ngmta id cae91ccc-16cdaf8a60c39c96; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 02:00:48 +0000 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 18:00:47 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.4.1 Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: From: Brian Kemp Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot water to fixture Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net SSd2ZSBiZWVuIGxvb2tpbmcgYXQgdGhpcy7CoCBXZSBoYXZlIGEgZ3Vlc3Qgc2hvd2VyIHRoYXQg dGFrZXMgYWJvdXQgMyAKbWludXRlcyB0byBnZXQgaG90IHdhdGVyLsKgIEhlcmUgaXMgYSBzYW1w bGUgcHJvZHVjdCBkZXNpZ25lZCAKc3BlY2lmaWNhbGx5IHRvIGJlIG1vdW50ZWQgYXQgdGhlIGZh ciBkZXN0aW5hdGlvbiwgbGlrZSB1bmRlciBhIHNpbmsuwqAgClB1c2ggdGhlIGJ1dHRvbiBhbmQg 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shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 26 08:36:57 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F139A0C58 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:36:57 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-h1p-028596.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.102.200.4]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDB9CA0C44 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:36:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-h1p-027916.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.179.203]) by resqmta-h1p-028596.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id CjkJnPbYJqZB5CkLinCusD; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:36:42 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1643211402; bh=jTHPtHG1bKXyr6F053PjXm30zYtC8hCDXzqVwO5CSjg=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:From: Content-Type; b=EVpqym06XFlAnFadkApeAdDFP9qCR6RNQv5lNiDl/WKXkZrn5nUWbgpzwypjpcSjV 7ryqQvCsoMGnsOWsPBew2CItQ/raOzTh+os077gpRkwXVjUzD7kTJtxEUJdgyeIqJR 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b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3AtdGFsay9taGFyY0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5l dAoK From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 26 08:48:06 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20EE1A0ABF for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:48:06 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi1-f175.google.com (unknown [209.85.167.175]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 005C3A01C2 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:47:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oi1-f175.google.com with SMTP id g205so342185oif.5 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 07:47:46 -0800 (PST) h=content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version:subject:date:message-id :references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=tp9Oxw3qKHgoy/USW7A7wUC2mFaXBO5qgO05mwJpKBE=; b=YDQGhNqY09Qw2ugxvwmROsW8xhm2VERRObM4Pyl+V9AR8K6jLZjAo2dxusRQUmDE8M MLsyiLk8jt2OAo7sASdqciIOwu0Qm/wNLOw3C2Wl+rIc8UNf2O6HJGSAaURlj4M0jkDx 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[107.221.86.73]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b20sm5639238otq.20.2022.01.26.07.47.45 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 26 Jan 2022 07:47:45 -0800 (PST) From: David Scheidt Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:47:44 -0600 References: <8de1034a-23fc-5158-ce77-d9e323a882f7@comcast.net> To: Bob Spidell Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot water to fixture Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Cgo+IE9uIEphbiAyNiwgMjAyMiwgYXQgMDk6MzcsIEJvYiBTcGlkZWxsIDxic3BpZGVsbEBjb21j YXN0Lm5ldD4gd3JvdGU6Cj4gCj4g77u/R290IGEgcXVlc3Rpb246IFdoZXJlIGRvZXMgdGhlICho ZWF0aW5nKSB3YXRlciBiZWluZyBzaHVudGVkIGZyb20gdGhlIGhvdCB3YXRlciBsaW5lIHRvIHRo ZSBjb2xkIHdhdGVyIGxpbmUgYnkgYSBwdW1wIGdvPwoKVGhlIHdhdGVyIHRoZSBwdW1wIHB1c2hl cyBiYWNrIGludG8gdGhlIGNvbGQgaXMgdGFrZW4gZnJvbSB0aGUgd2F0ZXIgaGVhdGVyLiBUaGUg d2F0ZXIgaGVhdGVyIGRyYXdzIHJlcGxhY2VtZW50IHdhdGVyIGZyb20gdGhlIGNvbGQgc3VwcGx5 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t=1643213436; bh=VHiom0eSn2D2EzVP4fbKHu00qn9FNFeeh9SO0813zN4=; h=Content-Type:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=BN6yE3cTtIxRGq5k0ANLaBU0iXMeAegbVLOUyMqEdvxfyLGIf9gcarNwqhmFNhmFV 7we/G7piMckh4m89rG7Y4IdZ08O/5xdo7fuHZ0o/+YJRyBhFjY1myeO3eHHvwfysiM CMYaQ42zEV1J0mFT7cbuF02+QKC6da8S9p8RGW5sX1zgT3sWzLji3gW1Nnd4BCIuf0 opowh8OO2GDjsO4fH5knJjbvZZ1jTqSWxudG85OfAP0/oDhdThdMf6OKxvz7f1YCWR Rlmim793XoSGStAV8HYlB9zc/B56KGT/UQFerU/ZZ0xWeoy29jXrtm1efs1JwkkJNT LoTINhyZGrzqw== Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-24-0-67-152.hsd1.nj.comcast.net [24.0.67.152]) by mr85p00im-zteg06011501.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CE163481014 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 16:10:35 +0000 (UTC) From: Tom Coradeschi Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 11:10:34 -0500 References: <8de1034a-23fc-5158-ce77-d9e323a882f7@comcast.net> To: shop-talk =?UTF-8?Q?2903e8d5c8f:6.0.138,18.0.572,17.11.62.513.0000000_definitions?= =?UTF-8?Q?=3D2020-02-14=5F11:2020-02-14=5F02,2020-02-14=5F11,2021-12-02?= =?UTF-8?Q?=5F01_signatures=3D0?= 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shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <8de1034a-23fc-5158-ce77-d9e323a882f7@comcast.net> From: Bob Spidell Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot water to fixture Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net VGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgcmVwbGllcy4KCgpPbiAxLzI2LzIwMjIgODoxMCBBTSwgVG9tIENvcmFk ZXNjaGkgd3JvdGU6Cj4gVGhlIHN5c3RlbSBwdWxscyBjb2xkIHdhdGVyIGZyb20gdGhlIGhvdCBz dXBwbHkgd2hlcmUgaXQgaXMgbG9jYXRlZCBhbmQgcHVzaGVzIGl0IGludG8gdGhlIGNvbGQgc3Vw cGx5IGxpbmUuIEJvdGggaG90IGFuZCBjb2xkIHNpdCBhdCB0aGUgc2FtZSBwcmVzc3VyZSwgc28g YSBzbWFsbCBkaWZmZXJlbnRpYWwgaXMgYWxsIHRoYXQgaXMgcmVxdWlyZWQgdG8gY3JlYXRlIGZs b3cgdGhydSB0aGF0IGxvb3AuCj4KPiBUb20gQ29yYWRlc2NoaQo+IHRqY29yYUBpY2xvdWQuY29t Cj4KPj4gT24gSmFuIDI2LCAyMDIyLCBhdCAxMDozNyBBTSwgQm9iIFNwaWRlbGwgPGJzcGlkZWxs QGNvbWNhc3QubmV0PiB3cm90ZToKPj4KPj4g77u/R290IGEgcXVlc3Rpb246IFdoZXJlIGRvZXMg dGhlIChoZWF0aW5nKSB3YXRlciBiZWluZyBzaHVudGVkIGZyb20gdGhlIGhvdCB3YXRlciBsaW5l 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shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 26 10:09:36 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 891A0A0CC0 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:09:36 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from smtp-out-5.talktalk.net (unknown [62.24.135.69]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85FD9A0C05 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:09:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from LAPTOP8O5QIFRA ([92.1.112.108]) by smtp.talktalk.net with SMTP id ClnInAp8JZPiSClnIn5mcB; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 17:09:16 +0000 s=cmr1711; t=1643216956; bh=cbdpVHuYms9hTRaZmG70E08hOBBnOe1nuy+WdvIbpSE=; h=From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date; b=GYP4/4tDTuVFRnvnCFImGbgu6knHWrLbhs3h11dA7RWZAcqUi2KPHf7muCxqHZlrY qhYWBaVTtYr5cwu0CRX8EDNB80uqE7EHKLTZSKda/4BWY6xbvtuaVfN+VAsn45Mm9w TFLz+B16NaosMfPcA2FU2YLoiMjdRqxXtJmnAv4s= a=mWwD01LvkKFUo+wDwOSRDg==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=C_IRinGWAAAA:8 a=5iI_e2R4lJQdVeVYhsQA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=GGGinmgZRQXmVEG1E52S:22 From: "Neil Sherry" To: References: <8de1034a-23fc-5158-ce77-d9e323a882f7@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 17:09:16 -0000 Thread-Index: AQHywLXcpWWPQ3cNL705rBhZUwOFxAGJyccdrDPegMA= Content-Language: en-gb Mhv81JxdsYOe4JS/0PqfsC/jaHWBAWDf5XDGMD/LKSH3JibCa4laYvt9MjznSP7DaRLOxN0D8AAcpA== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot water to fixture Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net U28gdGhlIHdhdGVyIHRoYXQgaGFzIGNvbWUgZnJvbSB0aGUgd2F0ZXIgaGVhdGVyIGFuZCBoYXMg YmVlbiBzaXR0aW5nIGluIHRoZSBob3Qgd2F0ZXIgcGlwZSBpcyBwdXNoZWQgYmFjayBpbnRvIHRo ZSBwaXBlIHN1cHBseSB0aGUgY29sZCB3YXRlciB0byB0aGF0IGJhdGhyb29tPyBOb3QgaWRlYWwg d2hlbiB5b3Ugd2FudCB0byBicnVzaCB5b3VyIHRlZXRoLCBvciBhbSBJIG1pc3VuZGVyc3RhbmRp bmcgaXQ/CgotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQpGcm9tOiBTaG9wLXRhbGsgW21haWx0 bzpzaG9wLXRhbGstYm91bmNlc0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldF0gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIERhdmlkIFNj 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CkFyY2hpdmU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvcGlwZXJtYWlsL3Nob3AtdGFsayBodHRwOi8v YXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZQoKVW5zdWJzY3JpYmUvTWFuYWdlOiBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gu dGVhbS5uZXQvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3AtdGFsay9taGFyY0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldAoK From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 26 10:19:48 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B981EA0D25 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:19:48 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-lj1-f181.google.com (unknown [209.85.208.181]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B26C5A0C05 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:16:53 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-lj1-f181.google.com with SMTP id b14so654775ljb.0 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:16:53 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=xWU7HGSuQx8VSHT4gokw4kOLn0KTJScHkqT4Pbpt+is=; 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<8de1034a-23fc-5158-ce77-d9e323a882f7@comcast.net> <012701d812d7$73116ca0$593445e0$@talktalk.net> From: Paul Parkanzky Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:16:41 -0500 To: Neil Sherry Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot water to fixture Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3180093185860699609== --000000000000293c0b05d67f5e87 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not much different than the water that has been sitting in the cold-water supply line though, right? On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 12:09 PM Neil Sherry wrote: > So the water that has come from the water heater and has been sitting in > the hot water pipe is pushed back into the pipe supply the cold water to > that bathroom? Not ideal when you want to brush your teeth, or am I > misunderstanding it? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > David Scheidt > Sent: 26 January 2022 15:48 > To: Bob Spidell > Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot > water to fixture > > > > > On Jan 26, 2022, at 09:37, Bob Spidell wrote: > > > > =EF=BB=BFGot a question: Where does the (heating) water being shunted f= rom the > hot water line to the cold water line by a pump go? > > The water the pump pushes back into the cold is taken from the water > heater. The water heater draws replacement water from the cold supply, > which is replaced with the water the pump is pumping. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/parkanzky@gmail.com > > --000000000000293c0b05d67f5e87 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Not much different than the water that ha= s been sitting in the cold-water supply line though, right?

On Wed, Jan 26, = 2022 at 12:09 PM Neil Sherry <neiljsherry@talktalk.net> wrote:
So the water that has come from the water heater = and has been sitting in the hot water pipe is pushed back into the pipe sup= ply the cold water to that bathroom? Not ideal when you want to brush your = teeth, or am I misunderstanding it?

-----Original Message-----
From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David= Scheidt
Sent: 26 January 2022 15:48
To: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
Cc: shop-talk= @autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot wat= er to fixture



> On Jan 26, 2022, at 09:37, Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BFGot a question: Where does the (heating) water being shunted = from the hot water line to the cold water line by a pump go?

The water the pump pushes back into the cold is taken from the water heater= . The water heater draws replacement water from the cold supply, which is r= eplaced with the water the pump is pumping.



_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/parkanzky@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/parkanzky@gmail.com

--000000000000293c0b05d67f5e87-- --===============3180093185860699609== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3180093185860699609==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 26 10:24:25 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E02E8A0D44 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:24:25 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from ms11p00im-qufo17281701.me.com (unknown [17.58.38.54]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7677A0523 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:23:36 -0700 (MST) s=1a1hai; t=1643217816; bh=/HQqjrUzUKkNYNSS9V+ZKVYXT/3EpvxwZpuQdJj3EDw=; h=Content-Type:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=ZN2ODroLI1OBjzYYyPvrT5eCnIfh5FU4fbP2/AG/NyvJvA0hrBqGgD9jGuEwQEPMQ TUDbc2kISSy6zppSakb4owSZdL7PoE9+E9PdSn/eJoYQMHDOdxEoQLaRF0eMcQBwHB evi6CvocMO1d3xYUHjHLEPIYxVj3f7TKvY8hTHtWjL6IZQs5RRh5zTyyZ8dbfe03Gz 3B6E60I8Nbhb/l54P6AtE8SJSv9Dq5Z4u2tN6E3vb9aUBu3TrWGVOnGZZ94vLNDjlJ UnC5WkTTijXMZ53JmJhh4WepArKd2UM0ZvuSM+FUfPbm4xHrFyNk6FLVg8VkCuItwe gjkLF6hNAk77w== Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [199.38.189.252]) by ms11p00im-qufo17281701.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 64AE3742754; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 17:23:36 +0000 (UTC) From: Pat Horne Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 11:23:35 -0600 References: To: Paul Parkanzky =?UTF-8?Q?2903e8d5c8f:6.0.425,18.0.572,17.11.62.513.0000000_definitions?= =?UTF-8?Q?=3D2022-01-14=5F01:2022-01-14=5F01,2020-02-14=5F11,2021-12-02?= =?UTF-8?Q?=5F01_signatures=3D0?= spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2201260106 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot water to fixture Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7147484322682325485== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-B0728B03-9A73-482E-A5C4-4163FE185A55 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Correct. Only difference is that when you turn on the cold water you will ge= t cold hot water & whatever crud may have come out of the tank. Other than t= hat, the water should be identical.=20 Peace, Pat Pat Horne=20 We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 26, 2022, at 11:20 AM, Paul Parkanzky wrote: =EF=BB=BF Not much different than the water that has been sitting in the cold-water su= pply line though, right? On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 12:09 PM Neil Sherry wrot= e: > So the water that has come from the water heater and has been sitting in t= he hot water pipe is pushed back into the pipe supply the cold water to that= bathroom? Not ideal when you want to brush your teeth, or am I misunderstan= ding it? >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dav= id Scheidt > Sent: 26 January 2022 15:48 > To: Bob Spidell > Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot wa= ter to fixture >=20 >=20 >=20 > > On Jan 26, 2022, at 09:37, Bob Spidell wrote: > >=20 > > =EF=BB=BFGot a question: Where does the (heating) water being shunted fr= om the hot water line to the cold water line by a pump go? >=20 > The water the pump pushes back into the cold is taken from the water heate= r. The water heater draws replacement water from the cold supply, which is r= eplaced with the water the pump is pumping.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc= hive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/parkan= zky@gmail.com >=20 _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi= ve as@icloud.com --Apple-Mail-B0728B03-9A73-482E-A5C4-4163FE185A55 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Correct. Only difference is that when you t= urn on the cold water you will get cold hot water & whatever crud may ha= ve come out of the tank. Other than that, the water should be identical.&nbs= p;

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne=  
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Jan 26, 2022, at 11:20 AM, Paul Parkanzky <parkanzky@gma= il.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Not much different than the water that has been sitting in th= e cold-water supply line though, right?

=
On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 12:09 PM Neil S= herry <neiljsherry@talktalk.n= et> wrote:
= So the water that has come from the water heater and has been sitting in the= hot water pipe is pushed back into the pipe supply the cold water to that b= athroom? Not ideal when you want to brush your teeth, or am I misunderstandi= ng it?

-----Original Message-----
From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David Sc= heidt
Sent: 26 January 2022 15:48
To: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
Cc: shop-talk@= autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot wate= r to fixture



> On Jan 26, 2022, at 09:37, Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BFGot a question: Where does the (heating) water being shunted f= rom the hot water line to the cold water line by a pump go?

The water the pump pushes back into the cold is taken from the water heater.= The water heater draws replacement water from the cold supply, which is rep= laced with the water the pump is pumping.



_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@auto= x.team.net
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://= autox.team.net/archive

lk/parkanzky@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te= am.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/parkanzky@gmail.com

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.= net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.tea= m.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://au= tox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com

= --Apple-Mail-B0728B03-9A73-482E-A5C4-4163FE185A55-- --===============7147484322682325485== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7147484322682325485==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 26 10:29:35 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1950A0D50 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:29:35 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi1-f172.google.com (unknown [209.85.167.172]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3012DA0D39 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:29:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oi1-f172.google.com with SMTP id s9so872265oib.11 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:29:16 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DB8rUmBF+PfoLXef71grRvJIcL1KiGK8xJzwKSnYRng=; b=QuljwkSEwQbY3a4jDfkF6vqnd0hzGlVj449bpaZecR9JIO52Fd6i6A4uXjMOEXFkTa ZjHle3wI24PGSwHsNlMAPDRuXQJ0jWVGLW1hOLcz9JJUYY7R/p34KhWqshn+C4jkXyPC /qpJ2EzoelOj0zVfeH1PC9qonknBR0MCOdzvoL/aFZh6JJ2NENvSaV77e2qa8WI9CvfT qjKeov7uj2mEUNE2wVwWhS5ASFnxys/WKW93RSgrNK8jyOMQDISpqjP1bbHJGn51c6Yb Jpg38ey2cxDVYISSfdDotr9F6Vp6ZQE8IYhXn+yzHMyQnmYcgIAWoMOWambq0t+uoQsM 2uYQ== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DB8rUmBF+PfoLXef71grRvJIcL1KiGK8xJzwKSnYRng=; b=hKxqfZjngfkgK8smQQs1J2PG7/CqgWTkQDFR8011NQc0NF48YvlJTQqZX+8cpuoVzU Q8H3li+u9N2/PhxwoZCrITxQf124Lt2hjSL2pL/GBNTLeD4/VwUU/gpChGlTlhz3kljc PAAXIKX1/p05wyAznkdliwEgLCmS9iEFcOgEF3kNRymZhW0iA7Zt41YNWN1p9hGiocjy K/PgtSkZIwRcDxYzX+42C2xyfRxvTzp2SCIGmZ8w5C150ETNi4DwEQu8xStivP1PFsOy y5WbfZGE6uJIMHQY6OCkf8TbSG0zTfRjcZEQLr4PTU0W2nCD/rh6MqEJLWk+AbC4a80q X1Lw== 48b4eQU7TDg9gPhL4T11KlaIn/zViYK8HBOTqUM= q21mr4288891oiw.196.1643218155666; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:29:15 -0800 (PST) References: <8de1034a-23fc-5158-ce77-d9e323a882f7@comcast.net> <012701d812d7$73116ca0$593445e0$@talktalk.net> From: Eric Russell Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:29:04 -0500 To: Paul Parkanzky Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot water to fixture Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8130328729051413607== --0000000000007500fb05d67f8a93 Reminds me of a Car Talk Puzzler. https://www.cartalk.com/radio/puzzler/ray-search-some-hot-water -- Eric Russell Mebane, NC --0000000000007500fb05d67f8a93 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Reminds me of a Car Talk Puzzler.=C2=A0

--
Eric Russell
Mebane, NC
--0000000000007500fb05d67f8a93-- --===============8130328729051413607== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8130328729051413607==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 26 10:40:05 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9587A0D64 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:40:05 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mr85p00im-ztdg06011201.me.com (unknown [17.58.23.181]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66E28A0D51 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:39:38 -0700 (MST) s=1a1hai; t=1643218778; bh=/jZN4rEcOsTzU5AHMP1+GS5duyU4YqHRs8qbfM9JBhI=; h=Content-Type:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=f9D9WTfYkfcAOnuLLgw2xYxX6eUMFm8xdi25gDlY6p6Idfre74gfqjijJp2awkN91 /AxEpWf/wubl8CvSrVCZJuIpYWFhc4I9o6iHqMhfYrGY1sfW01JxsRpjadMlLhuwYZ qAMWCGqQOJLPucyJpqsv2A8a8pFJsUkqduquYPqnRrPw6+Td4eJwQD6MUkQeWQJIZw K4fxbGl3IWmJ0JI+4/++MVTlOsVva1pMtJLc9rbWX+I9x6M1t4RVtld8lNcD35AvQv ZK2lsomi6T9xTI2zsj1oxamFpDAwasc5GwYfrrnwzvjx5ysPYrf5V+Nm3Cd+QJs5Wf Ci/yCYsC9RdoQ== Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-24-0-67-152.hsd1.nj.comcast.net [24.0.67.152]) by mr85p00im-ztdg06011201.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AD915960802; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 17:39:37 +0000 (UTC) From: Tom Coradeschi Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:39:35 -0500 References: To: Paul Parkanzky =?UTF-8?Q?2903e8d5c8f:6.0.138,18.0.572,17.11.62.513.0000000_definitions?= =?UTF-8?Q?=3D2020-02-14=5F11:2020-02-14=5F02,2020-02-14=5F11,2021-12-02?= =?UTF-8?Q?=5F01_signatures=3D0?= mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2201260107 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot water to fixture Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============6769559319764261635== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-B9504EE6-F7C2-4803-8B82-842F6895B3D5 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The unit I have has a temp sensor. It shuts off when it senses warm water on= the hot side - in fact won=E2=80=99t turn on if you already have warm water= on the hot side.=20 Tom Coradeschi tjcora@icloud.com > On Jan 26, 2022, at 12:20 PM, Paul Parkanzky wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Not much different than the water that has been sitting in the cold-water s= upply line though, right? >=20 >> On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 12:09 PM Neil Sherry w= rote: >> So the water that has come from the water heater and has been sitting in t= he hot water pipe is pushed back into the pipe supply the cold water to that= bathroom? Not ideal when you want to brush your teeth, or am I misunderstan= ding it? >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Da= vid Scheidt >> Sent: 26 January 2022 15:48 >> To: Bob Spidell >> Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot w= ater to fixture >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> > On Jan 26, 2022, at 09:37, Bob Spidell wrote: >> >=20 >> > =EF=BB=BFGot a question: Where does the (heating) water being shunted f= rom the hot water line to the cold water line by a pump go? >>=20 >> The water the pump pushes back into the cold is taken from the water heat= er. The water heater draws replacement water from the cold supply, which is r= eplaced with the water the pump is pumping.=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >>=20 >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar= chive >>=20 >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/parka= nzky@gmail.com >>=20 > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc= hive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora= @icloud.com >=20 --Apple-Mail-B9504EE6-F7C2-4803-8B82-842F6895B3D5 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The unit I have has a temp sensor. It shuts= off when it senses warm water on the hot side - in fact won=E2=80=99t turn o= n if you already have warm water on the hot side. 

Tom Coradeschi
tjcora@icloud.com

On Jan 26, 2022, at 12:20 PM, Paul Parkanzky <park= anzky@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Not much diff= erent than the water that has been sitting in the cold-water supply line tho= ugh, right?

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 12:09 PM Neil Sherry <neiljsherry@talktalk.net> wrote:
=
So the water that has come f= rom the water heater and has been sitting in the hot water pipe is pushed ba= ck into the pipe supply the cold water to that bathroom? Not ideal when you w= ant to brush your teeth, or am I misunderstanding it?

-----Original Message-----
From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David Sc= heidt
Sent: 26 January 2022 15:48
To: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
Cc: shop-talk@= autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot wate= r to fixture



> On Jan 26, 2022, at 09:37, Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BFGot a question: Where does the (heating) water being shunted f= rom the hot water line to the cold water line by a pump go?

The water the pump pushes back into the cold is taken from the water heater.= The water heater draws replacement water from the cold supply, which is rep= laced with the water the pump is pumping.



_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@auto= x.team.net
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://= autox.team.net/archive

lk/parkanzky@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te= am.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/parkanzky@gmail.com

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.= net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.tea= m.net/archive

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= --Apple-Mail-B9504EE6-F7C2-4803-8B82-842F6895B3D5-- --===============6769559319764261635== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============6769559319764261635==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 26 10:41:08 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29DF2A0D5C for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:41:08 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qk1-f180.google.com (unknown [209.85.222.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E35BA0D5C for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:40:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-qk1-f180.google.com with SMTP id o10so303771qkg.0 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:40:45 -0800 (PST) h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=SWrUIH0wLBx5Zvs1gzsNcQmMeMXlyFmhSfAI0RYojYA=; b=pRt2wowqMG//Kra6ptFC643QD2m+U1Xqg+g/oMV/psGuzLGOgDPT67YgYTCPIHnwpN cKVyjfInlEgNFDBxc3ds0U5uPvi9QR+X/RoAuZUW4cA/10I0daLhIV5GEEC5JATHbXp1 TiT9nlhK1fe1E4DmIZzLX4u9EKoRbseiugMru37bVQ4Mk1XmAbErL8VUVooSZNKFKWpp +h/P6Cl8TjBuWIV/BoAFoSvCrWB9+vXVrRRw3MzWQNhOmWAp2+Cp+VhmgrY7Ub0sfBxJ 7JAEaqP1HTMCYDrwu4XCCjPVJsUNi+0feJg42Q663ZTlbTw2TW6SXn9Hoq4nKj6hngCv kDLQ== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=SWrUIH0wLBx5Zvs1gzsNcQmMeMXlyFmhSfAI0RYojYA=; b=Xcpoc2R+U1ZFOvi1yXSZqULOm9ds8GSuuZ3mwdz3S30SGiWFqVPN4XyhDJAYp8lxBV UHYuKNytNS1oHl4qNxkDuoJvfR8vJq6bkFBGyceE9tnV/BBTd62Ia2iz9eeCB7fZ7k1f 8lujGIHCfRgwgWGu5z09jthtpQlaiEoDIYUwODIPm3CD+GChVVeZlHYpgR/oe2z9r29W h32RI1B3uE0238P8alk72XxNLHpuQiT+QYDx+DRmJ7nINBxslxXtsFVtx3eTuCG/B38i 4kdAr1gQCnP0wBbeFU9kjMopISM3B2AeRX/VHFuPBMvonnf2xfCnoTUuX2IvzsHfabO8 /i9w== oJ0A0xWz6J52teY5Jz5GJ3o= a15mr19257501qkp.566.1643218844946; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:40:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from macbook-pro-3.lan (ool-4350ed26.dyn.optonline.net. [67.80.237.38]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e7sm10357423qty.30.2022.01.26.09.40.44 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:40:44 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:40:42 -0500 To: Eric Russell References: <8de1034a-23fc-5158-ce77-d9e323a882f7@comcast.net> <012701d812d7$73116ca0$593445e0$@talktalk.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot water to fixture Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============9162599943275633804== boundary="Apple-Mail=_7094FBF4-FD69-4DDE-8CD6-AB2CAAFE884E" --Apple-Mail=_7094FBF4-FD69-4DDE-8CD6-AB2CAAFE884E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=us-ascii Boy, I miss CarTalk! We added a bathroom to our house years ago and had the plumbers put in a = hot water loop. It was a trivial additional cost and we always had near = instant hot water in the shower. Well worth the few extra dollars. > On Jan 26, 2022, at 12:29 PM, Eric Russell = wrote: >=20 > Reminds me of a Car Talk Puzzler.=20 >=20 > https://www.cartalk.com/radio/puzzler/ray-search-some-hot-water = =20 >=20 > --=20 > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine@gmail.com >=20 --Apple-Mail=_7094FBF4-FD69-4DDE-8CD6-AB2CAAFE884E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=us-ascii Boy, = I miss CarTalk!

We = added a bathroom to our house years ago and had the plumbers put in a = hot water loop.  It was a trivial additional cost and we always had = near instant hot water in the shower.  Well worth the few extra = dollars.

On Jan 26, 2022, at 12:29 PM, Eric Russell = <ejrussell61@gmail.com> wrote:

Reminds me of a Car Talk = Puzzler. 

https://www.cartalk.com/radio/puzzler/ray-search-some-hot-water=  

--
Eric Russell
Mebane, = NC
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: =  $12.96
Archive: = http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine@gmail.com


= --Apple-Mail=_7094FBF4-FD69-4DDE-8CD6-AB2CAAFE884E-- --===============9162599943275633804== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============9162599943275633804==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 27 19:30:33 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ADB6A1042 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 19:30:33 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qk1-f172.google.com (unknown [209.85.222.172]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C3DFA1005 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 19:30:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-qk1-f172.google.com with SMTP id g145so4416238qke.3 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 18:30:13 -0800 (PST) h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=Oz589lfVFGPoY3DXWXSygvaa1okG5wPpbtX2zfs0y7E=; b=XVFOxvjPdmABkU3VkNCzaQpfeVqRpQJO66/+6LjB2euNczakrIfK4LDIt8uzFpFVzo tmk27ROfFt/IZg/r1VI5P7yc/IF2Fs3+UaFdv4SzKDsf33SaPqV2K3SmM4BUmvBEW2gi BjsQUmwFjfmlQm3OUUo5P4BI8poIRy2wy+kHFJTMhnZ8wbNrFJNEkPRCUJncqeuVB7Si sevq0UJXDnqOobKcJht/KLkmNgWoh69mgtud5/VsBjvgHikM/CLcmJhSptHzQoum8DOJ CXRRET75VtLljczHn5bZdp/SwDhxASZYMk2x0dsFcnpZWWKHmjU7fr228gXn7kj1+QVn pD5Q== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=Oz589lfVFGPoY3DXWXSygvaa1okG5wPpbtX2zfs0y7E=; b=FNgIlzGTpcUPdnmOkt47JqPQL6QuNfTXnF0dAiS/m8cTI33uq8HFFIibSco3Vpftxa ORzn2QhYoBD34I3GlAXDEMl5ptzVBPxFEV/LUZJgnEelFPZvcTBSlBmBZS1PBBaC0S9g 9taJDO3qWNz0Q0qkd59tBp69tC1bUQIPQF8hgpFSaVtXj3vknhxqZae30t+9t9jGFXvg FoV0E29xX34gKRVC5sO8kEQvb9QYh4wWkO490lc7GPYRI3U6AsQXoRX8ibReSqTUMB2o QiQI0gajeIivUYmxO6pDkjyywmt3qPOsVnrmN5U7l2eyoCbRZbkU7z1Qmu7EvMMi40kQ KumQ== rNb5rIIXglknWYqShNZ6XH+bDgkGvtE= Thu, 27 Jan 2022 18:30:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from macbook-pro-3.lan (ool-4350ed26.dyn.optonline.net. [67.80.237.38]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bm3sm2527522qkb.5.2022.01.27.18.30.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Jan 2022 18:30:12 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 21:30:11 -0500 To: Shop Talk References: <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4@johns-desktop> <16F494C6-A6A2-4743-9A1C-8996238C89B2@gmail.com> <2a3ddeec-3023-c6eb-a802-785e5c62f899@sackheads.org> Subject: [Shop-talk] Whole house tankless heater experience. Was: tankless/instant water heater Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8569914812216188886== boundary="Apple-Mail=_C984BDEA-85AF-4759-9E91-5B80A4C43541" --Apple-Mail=_C984BDEA-85AF-4759-9E91-5B80A4C43541 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 I held off answering Jimmie=E2=80=99s question below until the original = topic seemed to have played out. With that now apparently done, here is = my experience with full house tankless heaters. I have two tankless heaters, one in my garage - which has a small living = area adjacent to it and two bedrooms and a bathroom above it - and one = in my house. Both are propane fired, as I live in a fairly rural area = and natural gas isn=E2=80=99t available here. The garage unit is a = combination DHW and hydronic heating unit (I have heated floors in the = shop and downstairs living area) made by a company called Laars. = https://www.laars.com . I have no complaints = with that unit and love having heated floors in the garage. (I ran the = lines before the concrete was poured.) My house is a very small (780 sq ft) ranch house and has a Rheem = tankless unit (RTGH-900VLP-2) that was installed when the house was = completely rebuilt (as in, new house built on the original foundation) = three years ago. The shower is no more than 15ft from the heater, yet it = takes several minutes to get hot water to the shower. It was = instantaneous when we had a conventional tank unit, but my community = requires new construction to meet specific energy efficiency standards = that required us to use a tankless unit. I complained about the heat = when the unit was new and an inspection revealed a faulty mixing valve, = which was replaced under warranty. I was still unhappy and Rheem told = me how to bypass the preset maximum temperature of 120=C2=BA and it is = better with the unit set to 130=C2=BA or 140=C2=BA, but I have a hard = time believing that should be necessary. As I said, it took a separate = small electric unit to be able to get fast heat to the kitchen and there = is maybe 40=E2=80=99 of insulated PEX pipe between the heater and the = sink. (The temp in the basement is generally around 60=C2=BA.) The Rheem unit was recommended by my plumber and is highly rated, so = maybe my unit is just a lemon. But, I spoke with a plumber before = installing the 7.5 gallon unit for the sink and he told me he installs a = lot of small =E2=80=98point of use=E2=80=99 tanked units in house with = tankless heaters, so my complaint can=E2=80=99t be unique to my heater. = Overall, I like the fact that my house is very energy efficient, but I = really miss the days when I could hop in the shower immediately and not = have to worry about waiting for the water to warm up.=20 Jim > On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:14 AM, Jimmie Mayfield = wrote: >=20 > On 1/25/22 09:40, Jim Stone wrote: >> I got tired of waiting for hot water in my kitchen (my = dissatisfaction with my Rheem tankless water heater is a subject for a = different day) >=20 >=20 > I'm curious...what bad experiences did you have with your tankless = heater? >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine@gmail.com >=20 --Apple-Mail=_C984BDEA-85AF-4759-9E91-5B80A4C43541 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 I = held off answering Jimmie=E2=80=99s question below until the original = topic seemed to have played out.  With that now apparently done, = here is my experience with full house tankless heaters.

I have two tankless heaters, one in my garage - which has a = small living area adjacent to it and two bedrooms and a bathroom above = it - and one in my house.  Both are propane fired, as I live in a = fairly rural area and natural gas isn=E2=80=99t available here. The = garage unit is a combination DHW and hydronic heating unit (I have = heated floors in the shop and downstairs living area) made by a company = called Laars.  https://www.laars.com. I have no complaints with that = unit and love having heated floors in the garage.  (I ran the lines = before the concrete was poured.)

My house = is a very small (780 sq ft) ranch house and has a Rheem tankless unit = (RTGH-900VLP-2) that was installed when the house was completely = rebuilt (as in, new house built on the original = foundation) three years ago. The shower is no more than 15ft from = the heater, yet it takes several minutes to get hot water to the shower. =  It was instantaneous when we had a conventional tank unit, but my = community requires new construction to meet specific energy efficiency = standards that required us to use a tankless unit.  I complained = about the heat when the unit was new and an inspection revealed a faulty = mixing valve, which was replaced under warranty.  I was still = unhappy and Rheem told me how to bypass the preset maximum temperature = of 120=C2=BA and it is better with the unit set to 130=C2=BA or 140=C2=BA,= but I have a hard time believing that should be necessary.  As I = said, it took a separate small electric unit to be able to get fast heat = to the kitchen and there is maybe 40=E2=80=99 of insulated PEX pipe = between the heater and the sink. (The temp in the basement is generally = around 60=C2=BA.)

The Rheem unit was = recommended by my plumber and is highly rated, so maybe my unit is just = a lemon.  But, I spoke with a plumber before installing the 7.5 = gallon unit for the sink and he told me he installs a lot of small = =E2=80=98point of use=E2=80=99 tanked units in house with tankless = heaters, so my complaint can=E2=80=99t be unique to my heater. =  Overall, I like the fact that my house is very energy efficient, = but I really miss the days when I could hop in the shower immediately = and not have to worry about waiting for the water to warm up. 

Jim

On = Jan 25, 2022, at 11:14 AM, Jimmie Mayfield <mayfield+shoptalk@sackheads.org> wrote:

On = 1/25/22 09:40, Jim Stone wrote:
I got tired of waiting for hot water in my kitchen (my = dissatisfaction with my Rheem tankless water heater is a subject for a = different day)


I'm curious...what bad experiences did you have with your = tankless heater?


_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: =  $12.96
Archive: = http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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= --Apple-Mail=_C984BDEA-85AF-4759-9E91-5B80A4C43541-- --===============8569914812216188886== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8569914812216188886==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 28 06:18:09 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6BDA129D for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 06:18:09 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic301-31.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (unknown [66.163.184.200]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E12AA11F2 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 06:13:05 -0700 (MST) t=1643375585; bh=qa1NtzEogKv1IZzlnsIBWMvAvjC96nrJiw+QGoOVvvw=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=eo6n2p+g7x/AY6X+PmhdUaeggfyKV0VpH553IUk6mcaGzQSmdnU2+3JorUk4UuE07LayDqSY0FjxyajhNTvjKVcisfHdspKHi+YaTpVD2cEAQGCsEcBlt0ZyxP5PPAE4RTx0BXfr8sYYDBl1Haq6eC5dZ/wPmQUIViI7k4y0uKpH0eDRDYOdAjJj4p/W9jHcdDeXthZdlrjdhTPJVRxXhcF6OgQ4NtEPSrtJn7Po5PJ0PiB1vqardR7rSLdEIXRQ/OJT/AQprPpN2SxkDvF7hliF4hBlhMmOFm7YtH5GB98jFeIuB+eyo+mLldLvscdga5vCaVK1emV8oB8VrRDnmg== t=1643375585; bh=3DK4aVjzs4+hbGOkqluU+soExBOZwZ2WSE5j9ARJJY+=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=nzKnshhfmCrSt7NJtrwTbV7TPlK1a434T3ewitt+QxcBbpbXObQkault6ns+NtYROxEkXxuyek3OvK2sUod89Qdi8sxpINQICqic7vNY0pTSEe7ZV6zO5PKG4mOC3JnssdPSIpcxiWoZrm3FDvQXCGUEv5EEOY3jPIIWuicpA5Z6IVDIyZvLsPQtqxLD5Ocf9drZnfhyFocRKzga0Qbjkd0pVG2T/9n/IMFAjxwhU2XoNH8s1ZK8uQiU6E+IZEm9d1l+6mwxXI8prbRDN3rmC5fe0SaEnEN+d+8VDSfJ/xF7iDfSupqYo929L3RYJl2wZpwHNX0B00ZZD9+9A5lYEw== gb7.0arEnBYrOCmHkyp0bi8ZHAe6rNjUvneh9jki1PYxWKcc7cXZYqrfreX9.JypiYGbD6GMlrFM fWq1W1_5f_znmJl6CuAY.xGQQt1_RqpMOru0h_JLGosDrYEulTcdhVPpHZi6y3D6LP0NFJLb6Clr BQ7Lv8iakMMrafm4RX5ifAW.8rG1z_9hTqtRD_VgvOox3JL3Zp3b_WccLBJ4IDb7qH228UYFAh6o UwSAc_WU8086xkpMmvb0kY6xIuiYAPhjaMDFDJPr2N2Pq284lOK00hMODYJQgwD.es2qWt5Cr8n1 reDqyL1cx0qPgoDyYzjZgrqEpnJ37SmzcBTvut6cgbs2dM3M6q69I1PfVeHNkzcL6cOg3tskCZFz .CGoSB9Otmk1aGM39iLNXo0s03QqnYq1xPpmGe6nv2LB3d8WX_mZ.kCAQ7Yqk7W49FigB7DRgvEp tTBoWmfG.Xhgo_WTljPp4jbPB291G3RN8zoOXAEGAmDpJlMPpjewmsfFT8vt2.X.iKyNj0aSeS3Y MkvxdDs68HIgSMXiPWMknL4jAOu.wQSOwo8ApqfyyxdgSwKXamGsKU05KzHS4s_aNdJk6ol1XjgU JdC317gdsiN.1ZgefruJwSxW5tvEKNyEMOPEuHTtGauUbO4HKb2i_mbdODLaVJdtDxtjgOhCX4wQ sVLl2.Uhw1ps3I7jHj9bUIWSBBbypQQrAq59ydRquZq0h.C13BuoEKGMy6zhY7bAGpKBdXGIgtAF sKZH7COfX267C2AahSoDJbvmf39VKHj0kLlWbCF5ZtUFG4T8rpqR5BvC7ZnV2QsKMNeKPhNqXJg5 aO98wrjAUinFuu75I75y75_S82n0g_euFTu6QoE_H3ZYxg7JszDpDnL_jVovwfS.kElBwtNoYBCZ W6D5poz.MQQBKTAEjTMPUFbC_ELDf5dJ8SZfBHRQAXxVWY3eXYGzwYcrcHNbbm_jQuS9aFe04W9m irhDQpQlTMI..D3BQXL98h3Iq4zPddp8TdHdKS2l4.oocSL44joy3jbtMWQffSe0Tl.mrweGjKug 0ztJHyJ1b.it_aFDQzhgwPTgFejNeQT.NI1KCIL3i4zgcgGaYziQ711naihMem8E7EN2I_ugu1ze OsJfk9e.3b8r7dlS.8Xurg4e0L2Nt8Y6lggUibD7V481uQdB3hxXj5wbK_9Q84nw571nMyn54I9H QOo21N.JKbgg2wsOFDphTj150KkSDgW15sxGp9NfwJW_9JqB4nUNwf0ZPj3EMbwyZUKqxT4N6nKe LM7B1NHnFQ0w.TEI7N6pNZBuWjwxb5gPPtJB0Z2NydNI8cLykRIrzBIOJvVXWtJtFG5VyIVOjF6a roFk8jjs52kFK9_pMLzo8LuaQhy0MEOwQyeyB_MzHBZmchqVqqREvPq_hh87jKobKpY16uOLqu0c GhFMaGhE6G.7AMbS1eRdrU6XSYQb7KGvSZiSuTGUaiKmV3CkqgTBElb1qvpOzHDt90OUn6jNPviG e8O.8a7C9S_STtQuFjmUfzQEWefpVo.cZGj53X8alLYkBiV8rClDulRjcmaY7oiRd1HJnPUwuyvC eI0ZiJYHCkckrI3TmbonhGWZH8yXHRj6DqZMAGEwGm6TO5qxOAC5E3hx3acdbciVwss.f4bt2p7R hcrpvN7IaJA33rfDNxVX.8xwTZOyyW9X7ALoiLQ1tZF1cfLxYBmGnNyeaaxuhbQg0lXPzd9sBWdM 8wGQK5.vWvlLGMkIa5x50cckAKhWPDbUBhYffQDxjppTMwuqDwoVK7qb.h0pRrdYpB_n1wTUmDq3 SPaVRiI_.giiedZuFcUIk34CeayeuU50UnVMuj97tSazk4E8cyOI4LJ0ltFOa6TH3Xu4EdTtxHa7 u.xtADDGI2TlSfrh8I4QMPd.OAZQkKo1Em5nRsVOBQ7wxx8Qzhpy96UL5Tb8Il2CyJoXK6TTJ9jr 7UIRypaQL92GtV05EZgaOVCiq3I7OdRc0p90iu32azYe2zfFBTYyO0rgvZDhmcwrzXJOrXDZ9Bps glV7WyBnr7r4FRPa7Irue2Qdyi00ATgbFa88cBP9e2OE6xgzQUpqsBETTYR1tABPQHyf2cvgb0C9 FojDVwWDW2nlAdwN9tvgkososOHyj0nEWpdbSR58AuMOm6URPhwG3I5MxW_Ki6gGrQFILaKjATrP NsPPYx6Za33.wcnMFktyLKPJrmZKQpTI5kYK6Zumlh5k- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 13:13:05 +0000 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 13:13:05 +0000 (UTC) From: DAVID MASSEY To: "1789alpine@gmail.com" <1789alpine@gmail.com>, "shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4@johns-desktop> <16F494C6-A6A2-4743-9A1C-8996238C89B2@gmail.com> <2a3ddeec-3023-c6eb-a802-785e5c62f899@sackheads.org> <23662393-247F-4B20-8E85-93B21B18231B@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Whole house tankless heater experience. Was: tankless/instant water heater Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0240819912372635568== boundary="----=_Part_3508317_1777824101.1643375585362" ------=_Part_3508317_1777824101.1643375585362 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, your plumber may have made that recommendation based on reliability a= nd not necessarily on performance.=C2=A0=20 A coworker of mine installed a tankless heater because he has a wife and tw= o daughters who would regularly empty the 30 gallon tank when showering.=C2= =A0 He noted that the heater would delay heating water to the point that th= e front-loading washer would never draw water long enough to get it to kick= in.=C2=A0 My speculation is that the manufacturer programmed in a delay to= confirm a good, solid hot water demand in pursuit of their energy rating. 15 feet of 1/2 inch tubing will hold about .05 gallons of water.=C2=A0 Most= shower heads deliver 1 GPM.=C2=A0 That means it should take about 3 second= s to purge the cold water out of the line.=C2=A0 OK, 6 seconds if you are d= rawing a mix of hot and cold.=C2=A0 Several minutes is probably the heater = control.=C2=A0 Maybe the flow switch is not sensitive enough to detect the = flow at that level. =20 Dave=20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> To: Shop Talk Sent: Thu, Jan 27, 2022 8:30 pm Subject: [Shop-talk] Whole house tankless heater experience. Was: tankless/= instant water heater I held off answering Jimmie=E2=80=99s question below until the original top= ic seemed to have played out. =C2=A0With that now apparently done, here is = my experience with full house tankless heaters. I have two tankless heaters, one in my garage - which has a small living ar= ea adjacent to it and two bedrooms and a bathroom above it - and one in my = house. =C2=A0Both are propane fired, as I live in a fairly rural area and n= atural gas isn=E2=80=99t available here. The garage unit is a combination D= HW and hydronic heating unit (I have heated floors in the shop and downstai= rs living area) made by a company called Laars. =C2=A0https://www.laars.com= . I have no complaints with that unit and love having heated floors in the = garage. =C2=A0(I ran the lines before the concrete was poured.) My house is a very small (780 sq ft) ranch house and has a Rheem tankless u= nit (RTGH-900VLP-2) that was installed when the house was completely rebuil= t=C2=A0(as in, new house built on the original foundation)=C2=A0three years= ago. The shower is no more than 15ft from the heater, yet it takes several= minutes to get hot water to the shower. =C2=A0It was instantaneous when we= had a conventional tank unit, but my community requires new construction t= o meet specific energy efficiency standards that required us to use a tankl= ess unit. =C2=A0I complained about the heat when the unit was new and an in= spection revealed a faulty mixing valve, which was replaced under warranty.= =C2=A0I was still unhappy and Rheem told me how to bypass the preset maxim= um temperature of 120=C2=BA and it is better with the unit set to 130=C2=BA= or 140=C2=BA, but I have a hard time believing that should be necessary. = =C2=A0As I said, it took a separate small electric unit to be able to get f= ast heat to the kitchen and there is maybe 40=E2=80=99 of insulated PEX pip= e between the heater and the sink. (The temp in the basement is generally a= round 60=C2=BA.) The Rheem unit was recommended by my plumber and is highly rated, so maybe = my unit is just a lemon. =C2=A0But, I spoke with a plumber before installin= g the 7.5 gallon unit for the sink and he told me he installs a lot of smal= l =E2=80=98point of use=E2=80=99 tanked units in house with tankless heater= s, so my complaint can=E2=80=99t be unique to my heater. =C2=A0Overall, I l= ike the fact that my house is very energy efficient, but I really miss the = days when I could hop in the shower immediately and not have to worry about= waiting for the water to warm up.=C2=A0 Jim ------=_Part_3508317_1777824101.1643375585362 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jim, your plumber may have made that recommendation = based on reliability and not necessarily on performance. 

A coworker of mine installed a tankless heater becaus= e he has a wife and two daughters who would regularly empty the 30 gallon t= ank when showering.  He noted that the heater would delay heating wate= r to the point that the front-loading washer would never draw water long en= ough to get it to kick in.  My speculation is that the manufacturer pr= ogrammed in a delay to confirm a good, solid hot water demand in pursuit of= their energy rating.

15 feet of 1/2 inch tubing will hold about .05 gallon= s of water.  Most shower heads deliver 1 GPM.  That means it shou= ld take about 3 seconds to purge the cold water out of the line.  OK, = 6 seconds if you are drawing a mix of hot and cold.  Several minutes i= s probably the heater control.  Maybe the flow switch is not sensitive= enough to detect the flow at that level.

Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com>
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thu, Jan 27, 2022 8:30 pm
Subject: [Shop-talk] Whole house tankless heater experience. Was: tankless/= instant water heater

I held off answering Jimmie=E2=80=99s question below until the origina= l topic seemed to have played out.  With that now apparently done, her= e is my experience with full house tankless heaters.

I have two t= ankless heaters, one in my garage - which has a small living area adjacent = to it and two bedrooms and a bathroom above it - and one in my house.  = ;Both are propane fired, as I live in a fairly rural area and natural gas i= sn=E2=80=99t available here. The garage unit is a combination DHW and hydro= nic heating unit (I have heated floors in the shop and downstairs living ar= ea) made by a company called Laars.  https://www.laars.com. I have no complaints with t= hat unit and love having heated floors in the garage.  (I ran the line= s before the concrete was poured.)

My house is a very small (780 = sq ft) ranch house and has a Rheem tankless unit (RTGH-900VLP-2) that was i= nstalled when the house was completely rebuilt (as in, new house built= on the original foundation) three years ago. The shower is no more th= an 15ft from the heater, yet it takes several minutes to get hot water to t= he shower.  It was instantaneous when we had a conventional tank unit,= but my community requires new construction to meet specific energy efficie= ncy standards that required us to use a tankless unit.  I complained a= bout the heat when the unit was new and an inspection revealed a faulty mix= ing valve, which was replaced under warranty.  I was still unhappy and= Rheem told me how to bypass the preset maximum temperature of 120=C2=BA an= d it is better with the unit set to 130=C2=BA or 140=C2=BA, but I have a ha= rd time believing that should be necessary.  As I said, it took a sepa= rate small electric unit to be able to get fast heat to the kitchen and the= re is maybe 40=E2=80=99 of insulated PEX pipe between the heater and the si= nk. (The temp in the basement is generally around 60=C2=BA.)

The = Rheem unit was recommended by my plumber and is highly rated, so maybe my u= nit is just a lemon.  But, I spoke with a plumber before installing th= e 7.5 gallon unit for the sink and he told me he installs a lot of small = =E2=80=98point of use=E2=80=99 tanked units in house with tankless heaters,= so my complaint can=E2=80=99t be unique to my heater.  Overall, I lik= e the fact that my house is very energy efficient, but I really miss the da= ys when I could hop in the shower immediately and not have to worry about w= aiting for the water to warm up. 

Jim
------=_Part_3508317_1777824101.1643375585362-- --===============0240819912372635568== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0240819912372635568==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 28 15:36:27 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82795A13C1 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 15:36:27 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic306-25.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (unknown [66.163.189.87]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AC43A11CC for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 15:35:35 -0700 (MST) t=1643409335; bh=s18jGN+1hLaGhKOTBkSWoYWZvhtkyuRNwk8BIDtGP+8=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=ZkhkEKm25HCEbQ/2QEayLB/ZjHN01mh65acG/VfAX4yCINtGDoeH9sanGAU4kG/RVJTzuPNn7yUm6BcQfSG4hRFVaGVFjm+VidX9mwTFozM7KSxWvt48sMxpQpxZx5l+f486QMPCYXsaQvrxkZMAx6/9qRa4mMH/OoLO+YHPA54= t=1643409335; bh=JE9tsAE6IRsg3tLj1rkXhrpW772mVQx+Wn2jdJkQuz0=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=oRmcz/bZUXntxDR661pBb6km9jMC710YbTUVv6SYwCcvybu7UszjRIJQjVTauDb2JMkBIsohtRRSoy2bStemY9BOx5r3R067272Kys6VHBaTE/ejOHi/pqUWW4Ovfm9WlLNuYNwcsQ3WedcEYKbce9a8kesrnw4rBw9a0s4Tb6BOJZzGq9BNsv4lIhdDLVsAIMC/yT4t0N8dJHab/i9MkMOplhu3Dm+EwWFZDNeWt6orVAp6n1LEpZg+aheJaDIJ9+qXJpwTprA84fiDDyWpABVivCJicxGVec0J89NLYNwaO0KRAcPSpyFUDA6QSyPCZUyepf/vdcb+7orNG3xJZA== c8ErmgseToHbC4JtPIDpIDYa1pGosrBadQDKtnBdP4bi54CfYlFfrIUT9aAzdGMgRYoFRyKiix17 SYEGE_VJLfnJ4JRsiDxp4PhYK31euXzG6xKRgbeRyMosbvYmKwS5lOhdxfx94FjA6ihJFippNdLD FAn9DNVmUPwOdJmUCYjW34_daoqnrjd0ikKcS8P_8fjpoCtUtS9Glw_eCmk5AJgBAYacWFHlyns5 uREfv1QJJZ6iBSydAL8ZfQTwqdyjoxBYaVVVNAXwUz1UDrUTZrnlmLqg6s9MmoU4xo5uEXKZZLFv ee6KRY1z7Jxtj.TSASwC1FyjBm5ppM144bSCVtdkqsWoIKjMI3diTGY_MXaCj0Yi14SjIBtkAj4R 2nDwP0Sw7BDGslON4Z5z3ij.KJPR6GkYuaKGT52mCu3liMuLTopMQKeApGPRSppMamrAm7y.5w3D sdVa3J4mihLE0br8fZJjPxESKYMK.82Rg4bAnhNcQoZjT0IPuKJjZgiNFxylpP0SyJReJkSNTOxR ugEH0dUDLRFlKfkhZxf7LgS7UCWXjtBeyjsRgOxIQnj6BUZImjoeOiVt.or_yQdrRA878WrV1HZD Av66BMmzLrVkGGzWGIWY1QII8BZIPGZKrt7Se2KN3f44CYE7mv.6KBl7Rj0ZMlRWyrn0GFMJBGtU Zfed7W3_GzPYMKC8idJU2ZnIWiI6YqVyQfOGbjXoPg6kugMnD7cEPbcdufP3CuyvJLpkXMaW_oe3 9tske2byrDTzfjIwUtbTkbTvZcrKpWIAhEVn6D_mVtzgvFRVmuyMgOZeaX2qeSZA1EtDSGtZBlC9 9CjnqLbTQBwqVToKt2AWE2OGk7xFoWlQeYyo6CgAJUPHlavwvnmYuZBbD.rtCQZRLI4h6htjv0pT iKPKmMdEUCgKkWUur7jIJacCAzjkYD8mN_ssAgGGjeGXBQNbQmlK52d5ukEBAwUPwPgtVV8bJ1k2 CQKX1U5braIiRKFhnT1de4UXxyzYxIhI.OQY9ikPXOKxUcRHsTzhmjJHor5DD_wptNtl5M9ZlTwn XKdKJQKuVBaQkt9qiR7FhEcf56gv_Xw_fvQ3c3R_atYi0GkP08nQLjkFHLzSN0AKnhAzA3WaThPb 6yrv63uAhcDW7X6VWYf7rnEvaQZ7vat1Q3w22qwvSnAEVAS1FSVAs50LKVhIYSyZ6hd.qBw3UWXG M3A3Zi8sSmGsk2HqAty40ZG6f1jO0.KM_MUVtHgNz_pABZrV8ui2KqSJ_7ZVUHGP1eogtSYXQcKV yeRAIY_7kM00so5XXZxIZJ13LjK9FttjINbVMEYzPfZ0puYMKpx.TvMlW72QHNow7HuSjAgjHxXt l8y18HBZB.FaxCay2dBLKqZNOmgRTee8eWUyvV69qAOpto.r2.FnECl8N982_CVZsseeXAaDwBdo omH77uCSxiivQtHmGy652lRDIbHG5DAoT3qd88h47fJ8hMVnuM57rMn3vcW_DHExw5RjkoT.zOOf wy1BjReXWlbHw6pFMRPTs1HSPP6vEWEIkq0sSj8FbQ9oHBWlGO2JsOvaR.krWS8KD4Ow3DCpP31r uBRgLCAA74v0HnC..0M0lI8GHT3O8sN873J80J6Bq31w8BtstZV5qOCR104Ahb9YihnVJqP1CuR1 i0NreX4gMR70qbXsrpPWrgP2mUnsxBH6_5HG5SQP0VBwYcs43F1DV6uJbkqE_pZT3jPFUGoladpp ZS1nlxj0R6IBvZbCbOuMLgM.QDvMgnsRWJyWp4eI09UFseXDwNbQaEbShJFKMx9w_aRnd6IZoGzO vzIc2Lu9OdIesvxg8o9XPoyogLInqk_F._43PlJP3HWMEo7RpR3Jn4jCQg8lWlKiK6X7SufAFjo2 V0XS_r8i3qJrh4Njm8cGbXder_emFeo.DT7kje6sjG.29vdCBA0HTv7O5WfD9JmSQsei_iTujAFL p8bcBGzQPWNwprQtZoxIpWJho2mXdUZnJGC9IMQSobyybmbwl9yI.IlJcIpe.FML9q2AMKKu3KHK yXHgKFzd.X15hygCtL6I8RJDy3iQu6v8cGLiBI6wNiRlTMGfyDy1CtGmD9JKU77JTHFDAUXO1eKg pzxrOjdid11cv1x6iistUdg7ISilwOIKkgPE6Gm0YSp4Qx8NhgRg5L9hdJi5OnE98qA.zTUsqYKL VHwyWmcrHf8QmRxTcGrxHmmlMhlZCkqgy Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 22:35:35 +0000 Received: by kubenode537.mail-prod1.omega.bf1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 42ecab9837ef305c17557fccefde7c22; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 22:35:31 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:35:28 -0600 From: "john niolon" To: "shop-talk" User-Agent: OEClassic/3.2.43 (Win10.19043; P; 2021-12-21) References: <1Ubih77SDp.8PZKmsxPtqz.ref@johns-desktop> mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Subject: [Shop-talk] trailer tire tube Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format --===============8071415139370101353== This is a multi-part message in MIME format --FaM22c4eyTXV=_bTaeR4QrGR22PJlKo3w4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline found I had a flat on my utility trailer tire.. inspection found a sma= ll cut in=20 the sidewall... tire is nearly new and hate to have to replace it Would it be safe and acceptable to put a tube in it to get some more l= ife out=20 of it 205/75-15 size thanks john --FaM22c4eyTXV=_bTaeR4QrGR22PJlKo3w4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
found I had a flat on my utility trailer = tire.. inspection found a small cut in the sidewall... tire is nearly = new and hate to have to replace it

Would it be safe and acceptable to put a tube in it to get so= me more life out of it    205/75-15 size
 
thanks
john
 
--FaM22c4eyTXV=_bTaeR4QrGR22PJlKo3w4-- --===============8071415139370101353== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8071415139370101353==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 28 16:28:58 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C24EEA13E5 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:28:58 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [34.199.103.79]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04C41A0D98 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:28:41 -0700 (MST) References: <1Ubih77SDp.8PZKmsxPtqz.ref@johns-desktop> <1Ubih77SDp.8PZKmsxPtqz@johns-desktop> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent From: eric@megageek.com Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 18:28:41 -0500 01/28/2022 06:28:42 PM, Serialize complete at 01/28/2022 06:28:42 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] trailer tire tube Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============7227027176901839721== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0080F863852587D8_= It would depend more on what size trailer and what weights it will be carrying. If it small 4X8 trailer carrying lightweight stuff, you should be fine. But if it's a large trailer and you are putting a lot of weight on it, then it's not worth it. Also, if it is dual axle or not is important. From: "john niolon" To: "shop-talk" Date: 01/28/2022 17:36 Subject: [Shop-talk] trailer tire tube Sent by: "Shop-talk" found I had a flat on my utility trailer tire.. inspection found a small cut in the sidewall... tire is nearly new and hate to have to replace it Would it be safe and acceptable to put a tube in it to get some more life out of it 205/75-15 size thanks john _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric@megageek.com --=_alternative 0080F863852587D8_= It would depend more on what size trailer and what weights it will be carrying.  If it small 4X8 trailer carrying lightweight stuff, you should be fine.

But if it's a large trailer and you are putting a lot of weight on it, then it's not worth it.

Also, if it is dual axle or not is important.



From:        "john niolon" <jniolon@att.net>
To:        "shop-talk" <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Date:        01/28/2022 17:36
Subject:        [Shop-talk] trailer tire tube
Sent by:        "Shop-talk" <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net>



found I had a flat on my utility trailer tire.. inspection found a small cut in the sidewall... tire is nearly new and hate to have to replace it

Would it be safe and acceptable to put a tube in it to get some more life out of it    205/75-15 size
 
thanks
john
 _______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
--=_alternative 0080F863852587D8_=-- --===============7227027176901839721== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7227027176901839721==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 28 17:31:09 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D7B2A1403 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 17:31:09 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qk1-f174.google.com (unknown [209.85.222.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F012A12FE for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 17:30:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-qk1-f174.google.com with SMTP id o10so7159068qkg.0 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:30:52 -0800 (PST) h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=wLscxwdyW7uJymF3Ycx+UrbS93WKu4BPiUcs+DV0YmI=; b=Col9wsM31rWpPZkcsdYARP03InGKdo07WiBQRcw+ljlZHnGI5io4f4zU87mJq0iIJY nGUQLNuH715Z0xPqiySP0ZhfcuivNDv8asAngTh3npTjVfm6waAKmNXC4Yv1wnBqesnf k7NRJOAsCiirlC9czWOaSIOskpcikCsoTbGIaroas5//YorPzMoQQuIMjlFlS2kmw+kJ dth6S7GtIwIF3pEQY3AGp8z0pkoAt3DPRyN17VN+OdCRJ0upfAfOmLKRqgUQVxb0306U Dx0dcQ+qopU+CiNV13iu9sEHxL4LlRrkKr2ZH1j3saM7jRc9OqvCvhq7GKtnCYQoa9Dz MAog== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=wLscxwdyW7uJymF3Ycx+UrbS93WKu4BPiUcs+DV0YmI=; b=11Dy91mZJLYkrxZW/H1km+lYn2naPk3Ek+k1/l/8gqA1gjrBpmMNAGOGUOwtEVe53X jqadhqviy0HL0+pgcu/WqM/W7sVSU17PDvngbAo6rS00ef9pU+syJ9I+WpLm3FTPSjJv 4tyhNVhGH8MHQbsEx7Nk/YdeKiSMv6X52Uv6ZI8xB1LjmsSbvlfGu1JsLGTSMmOYiOHx bs86T/vVFcOpVwjn5M/RODpYxwH+QDWcVPB8dkhfZ1PR6TiVuV4up/gixn3z76kbDmXT G5Kg3sRW4LlD3RyiIFLYlONgpcQrcvmvcvyLWURz9Aaarci9HKEBnGu3FQMOS0lxJtLv w2rw== F7fsGqKjVWTgHowDnI5b0lkQ2bJu2TE= i14mr4335444qkn.542.1643416251720; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:30:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from macbook-pro-3.lan (ool-4350ed26.dyn.optonline.net. [67.80.237.38]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j11sm4023317qtj.90.2022.01.28.16.30.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:30:51 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 19:30:50 -0500 To: DAVID MASSEY References: <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4@johns-desktop> <16F494C6-A6A2-4743-9A1C-8996238C89B2@gmail.com> <2a3ddeec-3023-c6eb-a802-785e5c62f899@sackheads.org> <23662393-247F-4B20-8E85-93B21B18231B@gmail.com> <1224379374.3508318.1643375585364@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Whole house tankless heater experience. Was: tankless/instant water heater Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1398811749811163341== boundary="Apple-Mail=_EE37450A-3653-4BCE-9FCD-B2D9C0888E91" --Apple-Mail=_EE37450A-3653-4BCE-9FCD-B2D9C0888E91 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 Thanks, Dave. That is an interesting way to put it. I think I will = time the heat and try contacting Rheem. You never know. > On Jan 28, 2022, at 8:13 AM, DAVID MASSEY wrote: >=20 > Jim, your plumber may have made that recommendation based on = reliability and not necessarily on performance. =20 >=20 > A coworker of mine installed a tankless heater because he has a wife = and two daughters who would regularly empty the 30 gallon tank when = showering. He noted that the heater would delay heating water to the = point that the front-loading washer would never draw water long enough = to get it to kick in. My speculation is that the manufacturer = programmed in a delay to confirm a good, solid hot water demand in = pursuit of their energy rating. >=20 > 15 feet of 1/2 inch tubing will hold about .05 gallons of water. Most = shower heads deliver 1 GPM. That means it should take about 3 seconds = to purge the cold water out of the line. OK, 6 seconds if you are = drawing a mix of hot and cold. Several minutes is probably the heater = control. Maybe the flow switch is not sensitive enough to detect the = flow at that level. >=20 > Dave=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> > To: Shop Talk > Sent: Thu, Jan 27, 2022 8:30 pm > Subject: [Shop-talk] Whole house tankless heater experience. Was: = tankless/instant water heater >=20 > I held off answering Jimmie=E2=80=99s question below until the = original topic seemed to have played out. With that now apparently = done, here is my experience with full house tankless heaters. >=20 > I have two tankless heaters, one in my garage - which has a small = living area adjacent to it and two bedrooms and a bathroom above it - = and one in my house. Both are propane fired, as I live in a fairly = rural area and natural gas isn=E2=80=99t available here. The garage unit = is a combination DHW and hydronic heating unit (I have heated floors in = the shop and downstairs living area) made by a company called Laars. = https://www.laars.com . I have no complaints = with that unit and love having heated floors in the garage. (I ran the = lines before the concrete was poured.) >=20 > My house is a very small (780 sq ft) ranch house and has a Rheem = tankless unit (RTGH-900VLP-2) that was installed when the house was = completely rebuilt (as in, new house built on the original foundation) = three years ago. The shower is no more than 15ft from the heater, yet it = takes several minutes to get hot water to the shower. It was = instantaneous when we had a conventional tank unit, but my community = requires new construction to meet specific energy efficiency standards = that required us to use a tankless unit. I complained about the heat = when the unit was new and an inspection revealed a faulty mixing valve, = which was replaced under warranty. I was still unhappy and Rheem told = me how to bypass the preset maximum temperature of 120=C2=BA and it is = better with the unit set to 130=C2=BA or 140=C2=BA, but I have a hard = time believing that should be necessary. As I said, it took a separate = small electric unit to be able to get fast heat to the kitchen and there = is maybe 40=E2=80=99 of insulated PEX pipe between the heater and the = sink. (The temp in the basement is generally around 60=C2=BA.) >=20 > The Rheem unit was recommended by my plumber and is highly rated, so = maybe my unit is just a lemon. But, I spoke with a plumber before = installing the 7.5 gallon unit for the sink and he told me he installs a = lot of small =E2=80=98point of use=E2=80=99 tanked units in house with = tankless heaters, so my complaint can=E2=80=99t be unique to my heater. = Overall, I like the fact that my house is very energy efficient, but I = really miss the days when I could hop in the shower immediately and not = have to worry about waiting for the water to warm up.=20 >=20 > Jim --Apple-Mail=_EE37450A-3653-4BCE-9FCD-B2D9C0888E91 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 Thanks, Dave.  That is an interesting way to put it. =  I think I will time the heat and try contacting Rheem.  You = never know.

On Jan 28, 2022, at 8:13 AM, DAVID MASSEY = <dave1massey@cs.com> wrote:

Jim, your plumber may have = made that recommendation based on reliability and not necessarily on = performance. 

A coworker of mine installed = a tankless heater because he has a wife and two daughters who would = regularly empty the 30 gallon tank when showering.  He noted that = the heater would delay heating water to the point that the front-loading = washer would never draw water long enough to get it to kick in.  My = speculation is that the manufacturer programmed in a delay to confirm a = good, solid hot water demand in pursuit of their energy = rating.

15 feet of 1/2 inch tubing = will hold about .05 gallons of water.  Most shower heads deliver 1 = GPM.  That means it should take about 3 seconds to purge the cold = water out of the line.  OK, 6 seconds if you are drawing a mix of = hot and cold.  Several minutes is probably the heater = control.  Maybe the flow switch is not sensitive enough to detect = the flow at that level.

Dave =



-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com>
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thu, Jan 27, 2022 8:30 pm
Subject: [Shop-talk] Whole house tankless heater experience. Was: = tankless/instant water heater

I held off answering Jimmie=E2=80=99s question below = until the original topic seemed to have played out.  With that now = apparently done, here is my experience with full house tankless = heaters.

I have two tankless heaters, one = in my garage - which has a small living area adjacent to it and two = bedrooms and a bathroom above it - and one in my house.  Both are = propane fired, as I live in a fairly rural area and natural gas isn=E2=80=99= t available here. The garage unit is a combination DHW and hydronic = heating unit (I have heated floors in the shop and downstairs living = area) made by a company called Laars.  https://www.laars.com. I have no complaints = with that unit and love having heated floors in the garage.  (I ran = the lines before the concrete was poured.)

My house is a = very small (780 sq ft) ranch house and has a Rheem tankless unit = (RTGH-900VLP-2) that was installed when the house was completely = rebuilt (as in, new house built on the original = foundation) three years ago. The shower is no more than 15ft from = the heater, yet it takes several minutes to get hot water to the shower. =  It was instantaneous when we had a conventional tank unit, but my = community requires new construction to meet specific energy efficiency = standards that required us to use a tankless unit.  I complained = about the heat when the unit was new and an inspection revealed a faulty = mixing valve, which was replaced under warranty.  I was still = unhappy and Rheem told me how to bypass the preset maximum temperature = of 120=C2=BA and it is better with the unit set to 130=C2=BA or 140=C2=BA,= but I have a hard time believing that should be necessary.  As I = said, it took a separate small electric unit to be able to get fast heat = to the kitchen and there is maybe 40=E2=80=99 of insulated PEX pipe = between the heater and the sink. (The temp in the basement is generally = around 60=C2=BA.)

The Rheem unit was recommended by = my plumber and is highly rated, so maybe my unit is just a lemon. =  But, I spoke with a plumber before installing the 7.5 gallon unit = for the sink and he told me he installs a lot of small =E2=80=98point of = use=E2=80=99 tanked units in house with tankless heaters, so my = complaint can=E2=80=99t be unique to my heater.  Overall, I like = the fact that my house is very energy efficient, but I really miss the = days when I could hop in the shower immediately and not have to worry = about waiting for the water to warm up. 

Jim

= --Apple-Mail=_EE37450A-3653-4BCE-9FCD-B2D9C0888E91-- --===============1398811749811163341== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1398811749811163341==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 28 17:41:56 2022 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09008A130D for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 17:41:56 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vk1-f170.google.com (unknown [209.85.221.170]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E5A3A0DC7 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 17:41:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-vk1-f170.google.com with SMTP id l196so4920880vki.5 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:41:38 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ennsxd6Q19JD6BTLeuvbafpUUyxiOJ0N/4Fy4J5cyeg=; b=Wucg7qp1/shw1zc9g3XrAMFrRFXE5PRMk1LiYCSSk7M+ePUC0AJK3LkctnJdcvJmRF eC6v4EUKFfQUTc3uow2GofMJQdXD4VG2r+rBUjpiB76co87eYST72jnLC8reUabziWL+ DDlJc2AnVMo6tMVmx2P968RV7pGPeDHjTqZ3bcuSWMJjHEPylDuh+nR2pQtTrmyvj13Q JGjig391vMr6aVSGw35e8zjCPIS9215dUkUh40gjQXsneE/i/5c5asRYIePCZTlnFtBU ixZ8AuRRPeHw9VbJBnQHr0J694eT95OSvy0fulh9qF4RF9X1N5R1x3AElRrtw9vodRTO BbBg== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ennsxd6Q19JD6BTLeuvbafpUUyxiOJ0N/4Fy4J5cyeg=; b=Y15okxWosx0VsmT2eU2Hu8mHlgeJo5A5zMnVdd3jR0wqOugiEwj3yi7p9CCy/xbwEw YKjRJ5JWCDr9qpKBZDuatLRrnvRAvys1d2EMRq7SPzFOdYIot2fz2+Z376nwdrYe00/u hOoyMXZIXbPiUaIyNvtcdEiSkEONNp+qlBXAizivEpkwHOYaKa3RgeSY8DNcdD72YlwG OmL0vhgYxntGb/gN0Nx6v7oFpxIPNrZ+UrIY+cnMVCtB7bNlPqaPXC+QQQyUazP1q+LF gGz8hpKjaWgF7EVBUj0ft6nafeo20velyyxsojwMycEhO64+H64LuFAyqsYfy1bfQKoB C0uA== G0PyZFRx9wSCBWtaAGfpWOz/BOY938/STdALAw== 33mr4766720vkl.7.1643416897689; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:41:37 -0800 (PST) References: <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4.ref@johns-desktop> <1UbickM8cG.1ScZN3OsJa4@johns-desktop> <16F494C6-A6A2-4743-9A1C-8996238C89B2@gmail.com> <2a3ddeec-3023-c6eb-a802-785e5c62f899@sackheads.org> <23662393-247F-4B20-8E85-93B21B18231B@gmail.com> <1224379374.3508318.1643375585364@mail.yahoo.com> From: David Scheidt Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 18:41:26 -0600 To: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com>, shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Whole house tankless heater experience. Was: tankless/instant water heater Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 6:31 PM Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote: > > Thanks, Dave. That is an interesting way to put it. I think I will time the heat and try contacting Rheem. You never know. > > On Jan 28, 2022, at 8:13 AM, DAVID MASSEY wrote: > > Jim, your plumber may have made that recommendation based on reliability and not necessarily on performance. > > A coworker of mine installed a tankless heater because he has a wife and two daughters who would regularly empty the 30 gallon tank when showering. He noted that the heater would delay heating water to the point that the front-loading washer would never draw water long enough to get it to kick in. My speculation is that the manufacturer programmed in a delay to confirm a good, solid hot water demand in pursuit of their energy rating. Tankless water heaters have a minimum flow, not out of efficiency concerns, but out of not cooking the heat exchanger. They modulate their output, but even at lowest fire, if there is insufficient flow, they can boil the water in the exchanger, which tends to result in sudden, dramatic failure, and boiling water being sprayed about. People seem to think this is undesirable, so if the flow switch doesn't detect enough flow, it won't allow the burner to fire. And, yes, lots of people complain about that when they try to run a device with intermittent demand, like a dishwasher. I agree that your unit shouldn't be working the way it appears to be, and there's either something wrong with your unit (and your plumber, for not wanting to fix the problem), the design of that model is crap, or it's not suitable for the application (in which case, shame on the plumber for selling it to you.) -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive