Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot water to fixture

From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:47:44 -0600

> On Jan 26, 2022, at 09:37, Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Got a question: Where does the (heating) water being shunted from the hot water line to the cold water line by a pump go?

The water the pump pushes back into the cold is taken from the water heater. The water heater draws replacement water from the cold supply, which is replaced with the water the pump is pumping. 

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From: Tom Coradeschi <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 11:10:34 -0500

The system pulls cold water from the hot supply where it is located and pushes it into the cold supply line. Both hot and cold sit at the same pressure, so a small differential is all that is required to create flow thru that loop. 

Tom Coradeschi
[email-masked]

> On Jan 26, 2022, at 10:37 AM, Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Got a question: Where does the (heating) water being shunted from the hot water line to the cold water line by a pump go? I'm on a well, with a 500g storage tank that sits at about 50psi, and I suspect municipal water is at a similar pressure. Mine would go back to the tank--if the pump can overcome the pressure--but where would municipal water go?
> 
> 
>> On 1/25/2022 6:00 PM, Brian Kemp wrote:
>> I've been looking at this.  We have a guest shower that takes about 3 minutes to get hot water.  Here is a sample product designed specifically to be mounted at the far destination, like under a sink.  Push the button and the pump runs, pushing hot water into the cold pipe until the pump senses the water is hot.
>> 
>> https://chilipeppersales.com/collections/frontpage/products/chilipepper-on-demand-hot-water-recirculating-pump-model-cp9000-b-version-wireless-wired 
>> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-1-25-HP-Hot-Water-Recirculating-Pump-with-Under-Sink-Kit-RH18537/301852244 
>> 
>> Here is a sample video:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQC_shrv8KA
>> 
>> I have not used any of these products.  I hear the Chilipepper one is loud.
>> 
>> Brian
>> 
>>> On 1/25/2022 8:45 AM, Pat Horne wrote:
>>> This is off target from the OP.
>>> 
>>> I’ve seen homes/shops where it can take minutes for hot water to reach a fixture. One DIY fix for wasting water I ran across was to add a small pump, check valve & a bit of control circuitry at the fixture. Plumb the pump & check valve between the hot & cold lines so that when the pump runs it will transfer water from the hot line to the cold line with the check valve keeping the cold water from getting into the hot line.
>>> 
>>> Add a push button near the fixture that turns the pump on for either a preset time or monitor the hot line & turn off the pump when hot water is present.
>>> 
>>> It still takes the same amount of time but it doesn’t waste water.
>>> 
>>> Peace,
>>> Pat
>>> 
>>> Pat Horne
>>> We support Habitat for Humanity
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 9:38 AM, Jim Stone <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It is plumbed to the hot water line.  These heaters have two potential uses: as a sole source of hot water (e.g., for a sink where there isn’t another hot water source) or as supplemental heat for situations like mine.  For us, it is really just for hand washing and dish washing and not to have to waste so much water waiting for the main heater to kick in.  I don’t notice a drop off after extended use, so I assume 7 gallons is enough to allow the main hot water to come through.  The installation instructions cover both methods and do warn you not to set the heat on the main unit too high; as I recall, the max for incoming water was something like 140º.
>>> 
>>> Jim
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
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---

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:24:37 -0800

Thanks for the replies.

On 1/26/2022 8:10 AM, Tom Coradeschi wrote:
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>

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---

From: "Neil Sherry" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 17:09:16 -0000

So the water that has come from the water heater and has been sitting in the hot water pipe is pushed back into the pipe supply the cold water to that bathroom? Not ideal when you want to brush your teeth, or am I misunderstanding it?

-----Original Message-----
From: Shop-talk [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of David Scheidt
Sent: 26 January 2022 15:48
To: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot water to fixture

[email-masked]

---

From: Paul Parkanzky <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:16:41 -0500

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Not much different than the water that has been sitting in the cold-water
supply line though, right?

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 12:09 PM Neil Sherry <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> So the water that has come from the water heater and has been sitting in
> the hot water pipe is pushed back into the pipe supply the cold water to
> that bathroom? Not ideal when you want to brush your teeth, or am I
> misunderstanding it?
>
> > =EF=BB=BFGot a question: Where does the (heating) water being shunted f=
rom the
> hot water line to the cold water line by a pump go?
>
> The water the pump pushes back into the cold is taken from the water
> heater. The water heater draws replacement water from the cold supply,
> which is replaced with the water the pump is pumping.
>
>
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Not much different than the water that ha=
s been sitting in the cold-water supply line though, right?</div><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 26, =
2022 at 12:09 PM Neil Sherry &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex">So the water that has come from the water heater =
and has been sitting in the hot water pipe is pushed back into the pipe sup=
ply the cold water to that bathroom? Not ideal when you want to brush your =
teeth, or am I misunderstanding it?<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Shop-talk [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>] On Behalf Of David=
 Scheidt<br>
Sent: 26 January 2022 15:48<br>
To: Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">shop-talk=
@autox.team.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot wat=
er to fixture<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; On Jan 26, 2022, at 09:37, Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@=
comcast.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; =EF=BB=BFGot a question: Where does the (heating) water being shunted =
from the hot water line to the cold water line by a pump go?<br>
<br>
The water the pump pushes back into the cold is taken from the water heater=
. The water heater draws replacement water from the cold supply, which is r=
eplaced with the water the pump is pumping. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 11:23:35 -0600

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Correct. Only difference is that when you turn on the cold water you will ge=
t cold hot water & whatever crud may have come out of the tank. Other than t=
hat, the water should be identical.=20

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne=20

On Jan 26, 2022, at 11:20 AM, Paul Parkanzky <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Not much different than the water that has been sitting in the cold-water su=
pply line though, right?

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 12:09 PM Neil Sherry <[email-masked]> wrot=
e:
> So the water that has come from the water heater and has been sitting in t=
he hot water pipe is pushed back into the pipe supply the cold water to that=
 bathroom? Not ideal when you want to brush your teeth, or am I misunderstan=
ding it?
>=20
> From: Shop-talk [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Dav=
id Scheidt
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot wa=
ter to fixture
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >=20
> > =EF=BB=BFGot a question: Where does the (heating) water being shunted fr=
om the hot water line to the cold water line by a pump go?
>=20
> The water the pump pushes back into the cold is taken from the water heate=
r. The water heater draws replacement water from the cold supply, which is r=
eplaced with the water the pump is pumping.=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc=
hive
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/parkan=
[email-masked]
>=20

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve

[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Correct. Only difference is that when you t=
urn on the cold water you will get cold hot water &amp; whatever crud may ha=
ve come out of the tank. Other than that, the water should be identical.&nbs=
p;<div><br></div><div>Peace,</div><div>Pat<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Pat Horne=
&nbsp;<div>We support Habitat for Humanity</div><div><br></div></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><br>On Jan 26, 2022, at 11:20 AM, Paul Parkanzky &lt;parkanzky@gma=
il.com&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">Not much different than the water that has been sitting in th=
e cold-water supply line though, right?</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 12:09 PM Neil S=
herry &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
et</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">=
So the water that has come from the water heater and has been sitting in the=
 hot water pipe is pushed back into the pipe supply the cold water to that b=
athroom? Not ideal when you want to brush your teeth, or am I misunderstandi=
ng it?<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Shop-talk [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>] On Behalf Of David Sc=
heidt<br>
Sent: 26 January 2022 15:48<br>
To: Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">shop-talk@=
autox.team.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot wate=
r to fixture<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; On Jan 26, 2022, at 09:37, Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@c=
omcast.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; =EF=BB=BFGot a question: Where does the (heating) water being shunted f=
rom the hot water line to the cold water line by a pump go?<br>
<br>
The water the pump pushes back into the cold is taken from the water heater.=
 The water heater draws replacement water from the cold supply, which is rep=
laced with the water the pump is pumping. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@auto=
x.team.net</a><br>
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=3D=
"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://=
autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
lk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span></span=
><br><span>[email-masked]</span><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.=
net/donate.html</span><br><span>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.96</span=
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m.net/archive</span><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://au=
tox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</span><br><span=
></span><br></div></div></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Eric Russell <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:29:04 -0500

--===============8130328729051413607==

--0000000000007500fb05d67f8a93

Reminds me of a Car Talk Puzzler.

https://www.cartalk.com/radio/puzzler/ray-search-some-hot-water

-- 
Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

--0000000000007500fb05d67f8a93
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Reminds me of a Car Talk Puzzler.=C2=A0<d=
iv><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://www.cartalk.com/radio/puzzler/ray-sear=
ch-some-hot-water">https://www.cartalk.com/radio/puzzler/ray-search-some-ho=
t-water</a>=C2=A0</div><div><br></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Eric Russell<div>Mebane, NC</div></di=
v></div></div>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Tom Coradeschi <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:39:35 -0500

--===============6769559319764261635==
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The unit I have has a temp sensor. It shuts off when it senses warm water on=
 the hot side - in fact won=E2=80=99t turn on if you already have warm water=
 on the hot side.=20

Tom Coradeschi
[email-masked]

> On Jan 26, 2022, at 12:20 PM, Paul Parkanzky <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Not much different than the water that has been sitting in the cold-water s=
upply line though, right?
>=20
>> On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 12:09 PM Neil Sherry <[email-masked]> w=
>> From: Shop-talk [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Da=
vid Scheidt
>> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot w=
ater to fixture
>> > =EF=BB=BFGot a question: Where does the (heating) water being shunted f=
rom the hot water line to the cold water line by a pump go?
>>=20
>> The water the pump pushes back into the cold is taken from the water heat=
er. The water heater draws replacement water from the cold supply, which is r=
eplaced with the water the pump is pumping.=20
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar=
chive
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/parka=
[email-masked]
hive
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora=
@icloud.com

--Apple-Mail-B9504EE6-F7C2-4803-8B82-842F6895B3D5
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">The unit I have has a temp sensor. It shuts=
 off when it senses warm water on the hot side - in fact won=E2=80=99t turn o=
n if you already have warm water on the hot side.&nbsp;<br><br><div dir=3D"l=
tr">Tom Coradeschi<div>[email-masked]</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><bl=
ockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 26, 2022, at 12:20 PM, Paul Parkanzky &lt;park=
[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cit=
e"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Not much diff=
erent than the water that has been sitting in the cold-water supply line tho=
ugh, right?</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gm=
ail_attr">On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 12:09 PM Neil Sherry &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">So the water that has come f=
rom the water heater and has been sitting in the hot water pipe is pushed ba=
ck into the pipe supply the cold water to that bathroom? Not ideal when you w=
ant to brush your teeth, or am I misunderstanding it?<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Shop-talk [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>] On Behalf Of David Sc=
heidt<br>
Sent: 26 January 2022 15:48<br>
To: Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">shop-talk@=
autox.team.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] was tankless/instant water heater now slow hot wate=
r to fixture<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; On Jan 26, 2022, at 09:37, Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@c=
omcast.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; =EF=BB=BFGot a question: Where does the (heating) water being shunted f=
rom the hot water line to the cold water line by a pump go?<br>
<br>
The water the pump pushes back into the cold is taken from the water heater.=
 The water heater draws replacement water from the cold supply, which is rep=
laced with the water the pump is pumping. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@auto=
x.team.net</a><br>
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=3D=
"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://=
autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
lk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span></span=
m.net/archive</span><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://au=
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pan><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Jim Stone <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:40:42 -0500

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Boy, I miss CarTalk!

We added a bathroom to our house years ago and had the plumbers put in a =
hot water loop.  It was a trivial additional cost and we always had near =
instant hot water in the shower.  Well worth the few extra dollars.

> On Jan 26, 2022, at 12:29 PM, Eric Russell <[email-masked]> =
wrote:
>=20
> Reminds me of a Car Talk Puzzler.=20
>=20
> https://www.cartalk.com/radio/puzzler/ray-search-some-hot-water =
<https://www.cartalk.com/radio/puzzler/ray-search-some-hot-water>=20
> --=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk =
http://autox.team.net/archive
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

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	charset=us-ascii

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Boy, =
I miss CarTalk!<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">We =
added a bathroom to our house years ago and had the plumbers put in a =
hot water loop. &nbsp;It was a trivial additional cost and we always had =
near instant hot water in the shower. &nbsp;Well worth the few extra =
dollars.<br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Jan 26, 2022, at 12:29 PM, Eric Russell =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Reminds me of a Car Talk =
Puzzler.&nbsp;<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.cartalk.com/radio/puzzler/ray-search-some-hot-water" =
class=3D"">https://www.cartalk.com/radio/puzzler/ray-search-some-hot-water=
</a>&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div>-- <br =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">Eric Russell<div class=3D"">Mebane, =
NC</div></div></div></div>
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