If you want to go with two different ones, I=E2=80=99d put the poore= r one first, followed by the better one.

My H= VAC guy says to not use the corrugated filters, nor the fiberglass ones that= you can see throughout. He sells me Purolator 312 filters by the case. = ;

Peace,

Pat

Pat Horne =

We support Habitat for Humanity

On Dec 13, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> w= rote:

=EF=BB=BFThe company that installed my HVAC= system a few years ago used a filter box on the return line that takes 20=E2= =80=9D x 25" x 4=E2=80=9D filters, which is an unusual, an= d thus expensive, size - filters generally run about $25 each - that is not r= eadily available other than online. During construction, my general co= ntractor just had a cheap 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 1=E2=80=9D <= /b>filter in there that seemed to work just fine. I checked the instal= lation instructions for the furnace and there are no specifications for the f= ilters, other than that they need to be changed regularly, which is getting p= retty expensive. Is there any reason I couldn=E2=80=99t just use 1=E2=80= =9D filters, which are less than half the price? Maybe even put two of= them in the box, a good one first to catch most of the dust and a cheap one= like the contractor used as a secondary one. It is a snug fit and I d= on=E2=80=99t think there is any danger of them tipping, but two would make i= t impossible.

Thanks,
Jim
__________________________________________= _____

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual= donation $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermai= l/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

U= nsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexa= s@icloud.com

= --Apple-Mail-53579DE3-B75B-4E81-B305-91E447719292-- --===============7677042162391103946== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7677042162391103946==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 13 15:44:30 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78519A0AF9 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 15:44:30 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ua1-f48.google.com (unknown [209.85.222.48]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98F1EA0AE6 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 15:44:20 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ua1-f48.google.com with SMTP id ay21so31785367uab.12 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 14:44:20 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=q0ZmH3S8z0Pyo9pGQjkEnWlg4YkhLrX1CMKyoWjCUJQ=; b=kWQ04/Fx0eUps5MxSwzX3q5cQHsfIUHzQJwD8Pgv6hPVhkHBLHM8TG012ExZY83MDp h4RVSd+BCqHrrgFC4tCDpI7qJsM/N4JZPuXMvhBEoq1F9wBNhjzWX4eG9eNqrnnLpjW8 hDeRBIhU/yKUd1J/7dAHweTNifa9utOUH4LOUOT6XrpUR9xLVwYbDfgiLjzC8bDOh1vr sRNCjh7h7nMsyD73so3CrSFl5OzTZwsIEODR7ojEAdSy7wS3txsQE/WJgsfrAFKdJCrz bgcabSgxSTKXYBOmiQ8C042+SLu40lG29lVJqhiwdFivYzNv2lCumNXScx6Qu6GHIfN7 w+NA== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=q0ZmH3S8z0Pyo9pGQjkEnWlg4YkhLrX1CMKyoWjCUJQ=; b=EWGO+d51XU7uvKwvV20R9etqLBS+VOVifSG9NXjbHtY2v+jhDTSkb3A5D6UPVV6urQ InsehJJlzXxbZcgysad0A5rqNKD2Yr5mBPOabmIkif+mi3XkDRS2UHolDd5pAKRYVm5E tnzCVyo9dKgfthTqp/uoBlp2CdIHrQh7mz6kauCohZK/qCpT+VrZZ0h4VYNpcDWqwxiU GsiaWHfRhutCE4pePOJVyusagp7uNfoWDtmG+DuIRV3V5hJFc1CaHDnOJa/sbgAIqirK g+3otbKqvL5LXCTD+ehnG4x2xi8ov3/WUYfeM79hccCYN3VEZTUcBppYtgpDXTsIrzN2 xLXQ== zGox1ggF1vzwI9ru9OsVs8ZHKaxelROQjm3XL+BnFf6i l12mr1883290vsm.1.1639435459929; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 14:44:19 -0800 (PST) References: From: John Innis Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 16:44:10 -0600 To: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Furnace Filters Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============5432584374034393755== --00000000000038aaa305d30ed0c1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The only real issue is that you will not get as much airflow through a 1" filter of a given effectiveness. Most of the time that's not a big deal. In our previous house we did have an issue with the AC freezing up when it was working really hard. In that case the solution was a lower effectiveness filter because the box could not accommodate a thicker filter. If you are happy with the performance of the 1" filter and have not had any issues, i'd say stick with it. I do NOT recommend stacking two one inch filters. On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 4:20 PM Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote: > The company that installed my HVAC system a few years ago used a filter > box on the return line that takes 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x* 4=E2=80=9D* filter= s, which is an > unusual, and thus expensive, size - filters generally run about $25 each = - > that is not readily available other than online. During construction, my > general contractor just had a cheap 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x *1=E2=80=9D *filt= er in there that > seemed to work just fine. I checked the installation instructions for th= e > furnace and there are no specifications for the filters, other than that > they need to be changed regularly, which is getting pretty expensive. Is > there any reason I couldn=E2=80=99t just use 1=E2=80=9D filters, which ar= e less than half > the price? Maybe even put two of them in the box, a good one first to > catch most of the dust and a cheap one like the contractor used as a > secondary one. It is a snug fit and I don=E2=80=99t think there is any d= anger of > them tipping, but two would make it impossible. > > Thanks, > Jim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com > > --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D Never offend people with style when you =3D =3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown =3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --00000000000038aaa305d30ed0c1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The only real issue is that you will not get as much airfl= ow through a 1" filter of a given effectiveness.=C2=A0 Most of the tim= e that's not a big deal.=C2=A0 In our previous house we did have an iss= ue with the AC freezing up when it was working really hard.=C2=A0 In that c= ase the solution was a lower effectiveness filter because the box could not= accommodate a thicker filter.=C2=A0 If you are happy with the performance = of the 1" filter and have not had any issues, i'd say stick with i= t.=C2=A0 I do NOT recommend stacking two one inch filters. =C2=A0
=
On Mon= , Dec 13, 2021 at 4:20 PM Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote:
The comp= any that installed my HVAC system a few years ago used a filter box on the = return line that takes 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 4=E2=80=9D filters, = which is an unusual, and thus expensive, size - filters generally run about= $25 each - that is not readily available other than online.=C2=A0 During c= onstruction, my general contractor just had a=C2=A0cheap 20=E2=80=9D x 25&q= uot; x 1=E2=80=9D filter in there that seemed to work just fine.=C2= =A0 I checked the installation instructions for the furnace and there are n= o specifications for the filters, other than that they need to be changed r= egularly, which is getting pretty expensive.=C2=A0 Is there any reason I co= uldn=E2=80=99t just use 1=E2=80=9D filters, which are less than half the pr= ice?=C2=A0 Maybe even put two of them in the box, a good one first to catch= most of the dust and a cheap one like the contractor used as a secondary o= ne.=C2=A0 It is a snug fit and I don=E2=80=99t think there is any danger of= them tipping, but two would make it impossible.

Thanks,=
Jim
_______________________________________________
Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/jdinnis@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te= am.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com

--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D Never offend people with = style when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D
=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Bro= wn=C2=A0 =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
--00000000000038aaa305d30ed0c1-- --===============5432584374034393755== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5432584374034393755==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 13 17:02:56 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2344CA0A32 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 17:02:56 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qt1-f174.google.com (unknown [209.85.160.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12705A0A24 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 17:02:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-qt1-f174.google.com with SMTP id j17so16989954qtx.2 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 16:02:45 -0800 (PST) h=from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=k2H2/g2o6lKyILFhY5l7APXPbbJEkDuA7aGH19WoKXg=; b=QwF4YEsj8WkcTindre/lrreE4RIFNq8HCz0kl48w8odU8S61ViB+901chkw4nPyQLL 60XwK7wZZFDwawjWjnIIs9epRWU/8jRYXelhu9IrdgtMzH1m+psneu8lrVyLEaJi1NIy 5Y6BhWx3S808A586efxQHEpUxL1rsH4eXSWn1FwKxn7bSLj0I8gXePlKnnl/iOgblGyn C7Q9eNPoLgxHplSVG54suLmbh98HnUwhTjxPfmBjnqLSR+pWEZYwKda+yPMO4L+kjYQX fnWU3/3DU6Uf+nt+Hqn7FVnSNmwpAJI4Lfkr1DRer2BsvaPyQg1T4r/r41/W1zvwhCgq uDZA== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to:message-id; bh=k2H2/g2o6lKyILFhY5l7APXPbbJEkDuA7aGH19WoKXg=; b=FvKqQo4Cd0KEy4cGP/3DqmCdxJRw2I5QQTaE7dxdpfFxqxDNLpExi7QqlpiVPxuJsL GL0pBoI5lpT/7mReBcT4GJ2QMrm79LG6huTq444RQVo/vX3TkAKH+eO/7DjJTInsBrlq CqIq87Sp91PAo6zwFw+UlrD1wWEoLGYGltb29JX9InLP1x526iKKZ1TX0iEwooVspp3y eJYetWHqbXHhHJ+7hxq+cmQZK+OLkFk+s+tgkAHxfyYgK0+qq1pSyO94TQKHJRAi0U5V eG8KIH565z8V9XC5191shN3BHeC8kuavw0bU0NXDv+Ss1GU94P5yBxFDBV7Hq7KQctix RZNQ== fN2zzGhru64U9w723qfFrj7EyoHqLHtyRg== Mon, 13 Dec 2021 16:02:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from macbook-pro-3.lan (ool-4350ed26.dyn.optonline.net. [67.80.237.38]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o21sm11142121qta.89.2021.12.13.16.02.44 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 13 Dec 2021 16:02:44 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 19:02:43 -0500 References: To: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Furnace Filters Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8418305400961068363== boundary="Apple-Mail=_B6C3D38E-BC1C-4195-97D9-99B1563573B4" --Apple-Mail=_B6C3D38E-BC1C-4195-97D9-99B1563573B4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 Thanks, guys. That is all good feedback. David: I hadn=E2=80=99t = considered using a washable filter, but it is an interesting idea. It = looks like a 4=E2=80=9D one will cost me around $100, so the breakeven = point is after a year. Not too bad. But, here is an interesting point that showed up tangentially when I = Googled =E2=80=9Cwashable furnace filters=E2=80=9D:=20 Fortunately, most 20x25x4 air filters last between six to eight months. = By that calculation, the average homeowners will not need more than two = 20x25x4 air filters in any given year. In contrast, a one-inch air = filter will need to be changed every two to three months. = https://servicechampions.com/benefits-of-a-20x25x4-air-filter-installed-in= -your-furnace/ If that is true, the cost difference between the 4=E2=80=9D and 1=E2=80=9D= disappears. Thoughts? Jim=20 > On Dec 13, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Pat Horne wrote: >=20 > My shop air handler is set up to use a 2=E2=80=9D filter but the = installer said to use 2 one inch filters, both good ones. I watch the = first one & remove it when it is too dirty, move the second one up & = install a new second one.=20 > There is some discoloration on the second filter, so it is doing = something.=20 >=20 > If you want to go with two different ones, I=E2=80=99d put the poorer = one first, followed by the better one.=20 >=20 > My HVAC guy says to not use the corrugated filters, nor the fiberglass = ones that you can see throughout. He sells me Purolator 312 filters by = the case.=20 >=20 > Peace, > Pat >=20 > Pat Horne=20 > We support Habitat for Humanity >=20 >=20 > On Dec 13, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFThe company that installed my HVAC system a few years ago = used a filter box on the return line that takes 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 4=E2=80= =9D filters, which is an unusual, and thus expensive, size - filters = generally run about $25 each - that is not readily available other than = online. During construction, my general contractor just had a cheap = 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 1=E2=80=9D filter in there that seemed to work just = fine. I checked the installation instructions for the furnace and there = are no specifications for the filters, other than that they need to be = changed regularly, which is getting pretty expensive. Is there any = reason I couldn=E2=80=99t just use 1=E2=80=9D filters, which are less = than half the price? Maybe even put two of them in the box, a good one = first to catch most of the dust and a cheap one like the contractor used = as a secondary one. It is a snug fit and I don=E2=80=99t think there is = any danger of them tipping, but two would make it impossible. >=20 > Thanks, > Jim > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com >=20 --Apple-Mail=_B6C3D38E-BC1C-4195-97D9-99B1563573B4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 Thanks, guys. That is all good feedback. David: I = hadn=E2=80=99t considered using a washable filter, but it is an = interesting idea. It looks like a 4=E2=80=9D one will cost me = around $100, so the breakeven point is after a year. Not too = bad.

But, here is an = interesting point that showed up tangentially when I Googled =E2=80=9Cwash= able furnace filters=E2=80=9D:

Fortunately, most 20x25x4 air filters = last between six to eight months. By that calculation, = the average homeowners will not need more than two 20x25x4 air filters = in any given year. In contrast, a one-inch air filter will need to be = changed every two to three months. https://servicechampions.com/benefits-of-a-20x25x4-air-filter-i= nstalled-in-your-furnace/

If that is true, the cost difference between the = 4=E2=80=9D and 1=E2=80=9D disappears. Thoughts?

Jim

On Dec = 13, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Pat Horne <patintexas@icloud.com> wrote:

My shop air handler is set up to = use a 2=E2=80=9D filter but the installer said to use 2 one inch = filters, both good ones. I watch the first one & remove it when it = is too dirty, move the second one up & install a new second = one.
There is some discoloration on the second = filter, so it is doing something.

If you want to go with two different = ones, I=E2=80=99d put the poorer one first, followed by the better = one.

My = HVAC guy says to not use the corrugated filters, nor the fiberglass ones = that you can see throughout. He sells me Purolator 312 filters by the = case.

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne
We support Habitat for = Humanity

On Dec 13, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFThe company that installed my HVAC system a few years ago = used a filter box on the return line that takes 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 4=E2=80=9D filters, which is an unusual, and thus = expensive, size - filters generally run about $25 each - that is not = readily available other than online. During construction, my = general contractor just had a cheap 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 1=E2=80=9D filter in there that seemed to work just fine. = I checked the installation instructions for the furnace and there = are no specifications for the filters, other than that they need to be = changed regularly, which is getting pretty expensive. Is there any = reason I couldn=E2=80=99t just use 1=E2=80=9D filters, which are less = than half the price? Maybe even put two of them in the box, a good = one first to catch most of the dust and a cheap one like the contractor = used as a secondary one. It is a snug fit and I don=E2=80=99t = think there is any danger of them tipping, but two would make it = impossible.

Thanks,
Jim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@iclo= ud.com

= --Apple-Mail=_B6C3D38E-BC1C-4195-97D9-99B1563573B4-- --===============8418305400961068363== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8418305400961068363==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 13 17:25:54 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B477A0A9E for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 17:25:54 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-lf1-f42.google.com (unknown [209.85.167.42]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05C3BA069D for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 17:22:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-lf1-f42.google.com with SMTP id d10so33961385lfg.6 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 16:22:57 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=QHzHpsRMTt9iUvKLnITmfkh21O5lv/tT+j1mHGLUPdM=; b=iKk0R0LXMJm4O+Wq/j5iLOV9mjPSX+b7wsArh1O3ooj3bDc3fktrHa+KE6D9fwA05G GMrnL6PoErIZ4zxf8TSgnTVKlOnr0Y4QNUTkXI4jzxPRug6SlqF+WcEPgLL2qNFCq8x8 3ULwsOy06/0B1DEUulpKBY3RvdnVHnmVPWyciqMbk1r12AiOUJakHlQYgbfzKv/4CPTB f8ZprOW5w/W9wDPoDoy4BnbV0xEuIS772igp6C07yAOMt5PKShdcD78JeRy0eCg2nMwO ZrSNrAtmDba1+HNknWqQxuE0yiDxOxzfg61Q+4BxLeNbfAdWPIwXym2cuPeoBNWc5MHR zyIw== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=QHzHpsRMTt9iUvKLnITmfkh21O5lv/tT+j1mHGLUPdM=; b=gfffsH/1wrujNHNbEyFIZZkE33Wj3XKY1KJ/z0zeKdr3CT6Q8QWv6uGAtWxIfoNCjL fYbTPVW6Y/Q2P7j2kO5n+Q+kNkMoej93xEwrklqA3OZtm+EHAMdqv04RgfSCxKWUB938 1OMc4+Ulhs1nVDEZyrmng/n50FdRo1tLSltGwN5BOVzka60EE+iKN/sM3WwCE8dBlFcR SSUvF8m0nqtn9PGKj6k9v39ct7VCvhK0qH2AxZxqoywSZFHy2HQTOrJsGrEpuHhjfJ2n /iouHiW9H2O/xlc4hNDHAzXGr1b9dss2U0e+6OiYhYKCNM2Kq5MYWbZZ/8WDmQ+adpnm a61Q== YuiR0JYy3d+lDfLD680i71pxwnhMiE7w6u3en+U= p4mr1684486lft.248.1639441376576; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 16:22:56 -0800 (PST) References: <7A31A1A5-4974-420F-8A92-2DC3A90E5661@gmail.com> From: Jeff Scarbrough Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 19:22:44 -0500 To: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Furnace Filters Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4903768255651618642== --000000000000e188a305d3103080 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a deep filter housing (this kind https://shop.aprilaire.com/products/aprilaire-401-replacement-filter ) and I get a year or more out of them. They are MERV 10, and the system is designed for them. A deeper filter has more surface area, so it can collect more dust before restricting air flow. I'm kind of in the filter business, as I help manage a high-containment biological research laboratory where keeping things in their place is very important. We have hundreds of HEPA filters, plus the gamut of regular and bag filters from MERV 8 to MERV 13. In general, we determine when replacement is necessary by measuring pressure drop across the filter. I don't do that at home, but you all have got me to thinking I should. I'm general, though, the performance of the system will inform you. Too much restriction (from a loaded filter, or just too many of them in the train) will eventually cause noticable problems. On Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 19:03 Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks, guys. That is all good feedback. David: I hadn=E2=80=99t conside= red using > a washable filter, but it is an interesting idea. It looks like a 4=E2= =80=9D one > will cost me around $100, so the breakeven point is after a year. Not to= o > bad. > > But, here is an interesting point that showed up tangentially when I > Googled =E2=80=9Cwashable furnace filters=E2=80=9D: > > Fortunately, most 20x25x4 air filters last between *six to eight months*. > By that calculation, the average homeowners will not need more than two > 20x25x4 air filters in any given year. In contrast, a one-inch air filter > will need to be changed every two to three months. > https://servicechampions.com/benefits-of-a-20x25x4-air-filter-installed-i= n-your-furnace/ > > > If that is true, the cost difference between the 4=E2=80=9D and 1=E2=80= =9D disappears. > Thoughts? > > Jim > > > On Dec 13, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Pat Horne wrote: > > My shop air handler is set up to use a 2=E2=80=9D filter but the installe= r said to > use 2 one inch filters, both good ones. I watch the first one & remove it > when it is too dirty, move the second one up & install a new second one. > There is some discoloration on the second filter, so it is doing > something. > > If you want to go with two different ones, I=E2=80=99d put the poorer one= first, > followed by the better one. > > My HVAC guy says to not use the corrugated filters, nor the fiberglass > ones that you can see throughout. He sells me Purolator 312 filters by th= e > case. > > Peace, > Pat > > Pat Horne > We support Habitat for Humanity > > > On Dec 13, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote: > > =EF=BB=BFThe company that installed my HVAC system a few years ago used a= filter > box on the return line that takes 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x* 4=E2=80=9D* filter= s, which is an > unusual, and thus expensive, size - filters generally run about $25 each = - > that is not readily available other than online. During construction, my > general contractor just had a cheap 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x *1=E2=80=9D *filt= er in there that > seemed to work just fine. I checked the installation instructions for th= e > furnace and there are no specifications for the filters, other than that > they need to be changed regularly, which is getting pretty expensive. Is > there any reason I couldn=E2=80=99t just use 1=E2=80=9D filters, which ar= e less than half > the price? Maybe even put two of them in the box, a good one first to > catch most of the dust and a cheap one like the contractor used as a > secondary one. It is a snug fit and I don=E2=80=99t think there is any d= anger of > them tipping, but two would make it impossible. > > Thanks, > Jim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com > > --000000000000e188a305d3103080 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have a deep filter housing (this kind=C2=A0https:= //shop.aprilaire.com/products/aprilaire-401-replacement-filter=C2=A0 ) = and I get a year or more out of them.=C2=A0 They are MERV 10, and the syste= m is designed for them.=C2=A0 A deeper filter has more surface area, so it = can collect more dust before restricting air flow.

I'm kind of in the filter business, as I help mana= ge a high-containment biological research laboratory where keeping things i= n their place is very important.=C2=A0 We have hundreds of HEPA filters, pl= us the gamut of regular and bag filters from MERV 8 to MERV 13.=C2=A0 In ge= neral, we determine when replacement is necessary by measuring pressure dro= p across the filter.=C2=A0=C2=A0

I don't do that at home, but you all have got me to thinking = I should. I'm general, though, the performance of the system will infor= m you.=C2=A0 Too much restriction (from a loaded filter, or just too many o= f them in the train) will eventually cause noticable problems.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=

On Mon, Dec 1= 3, 2021, 19:03 Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks, guys.=C2=A0 That is all good feedback. David:= I hadn=E2=80=99t considered using a washable filter, but it is an interest= ing idea.=C2=A0 It looks like a 4=E2=80=9D one will cost me around $100, so= the breakeven point is after a year.=C2=A0 Not too bad.

But, here is an interesting point that showed up tangentially when I Googl= ed =E2=80=9Cwashable furnace filters=E2=80=9D:=C2=A0

Fortunately, most 20x25x4 = air filters last between=C2=A0six to eight months. By that calculation, the average homeowners will not need m= ore than two 20x25x4 air filters in any given year. In contrast, a one-inch= air filter will need to be changed every two to three months. =C2=A0https://servicechampions.com/benefits-of-a-20x25x4-air-filter-instal= led-in-your-furnace/

If that= is true, the cost difference between the 4=E2=80=9D and 1=E2=80=9D disappe= ars.=C2=A0 Thoughts?

Jim=C2=A0

On Dec 13, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Pat H= orne <patintexas@icloud.com> wrote:

<= div dir=3D"auto">My shop air handler is set up to use a 2=E2=80=9D filter b= ut the installer said to use 2 one inch filters, both good ones. I watch th= e first one & remove it when it is too dirty, move the second one up &a= mp; install a new second one.=C2=A0
There is some discoloration on the = second filter, so it is doing something.=C2=A0

If = you want to go with two different ones, I=E2=80=99d put the poorer one firs= t, followed by the better one.=C2=A0

My HVAC guy s= ays to not use the corrugated filters, nor the fiberglass ones that you can= see throughout. He sells me Purolator 312 filters by the case.=C2=A0
Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne=C2=A0
W= e support Habitat for Humanity

<= br>On Dec 13, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail= .com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFThe company that= installed my HVAC system a few years ago used a filter box on the return l= ine that takes 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 4=E2=80=9D filters, which is= an unusual, and thus expensive, size - filters generally run about $25 eac= h - that is not readily available other than online.=C2=A0 During construct= ion, my general contractor just had a=C2=A0cheap 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x <= b>1=E2=80=9D filter in there that seemed to work just fine.=C2=A0 I che= cked the installation instructions for the furnace and there are no specifi= cations for the filters, other than that they need to be changed regularly,= which is getting pretty expensive.=C2=A0 Is there any reason I couldn=E2= =80=99t just use 1=E2=80=9D filters, which are less than half the price?=C2= =A0 Maybe even put two of them in the box, a good one first to catch most o= f the dust and a cheap one like the contractor used as a secondary one.=C2= =A0 It is a snug fit and I don=E2=80=99t think there is any danger of them = tipping, but two would make it impossible.

Thanks,
=
Jim
_______________________________________________<= br>
Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=
Suggested annual donation =C2=A0$12.96
Arc= hive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.co= m

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
errer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/= shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
alk/fishplate@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D= "_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.co= m

--000000000000e188a305d3103080-- --===============4903768255651618642== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4903768255651618642==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 13 17:26:26 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76F39A0B06 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 17:26:26 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from NAM11-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (unknown [40.92.20.97]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46464A06A0 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 17:22:58 -0700 (MST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=TpScA4Xf77XOTZujMZ3Di1MFwWYuLlQt1xqlsADwzM1fiCaoU+t3I6RuiyYNw8t35LVGFlv9GmASymG++AMWwgZHS1uvBwgfQT7CoVAGSbXKfZLNpgwjQYCRx2IF5fjlrkgGuRlUYHtccro7OJr3+fccfkoTxJZK9EvZBMvqRaxUduiOc6G3WGHCJFiQxJGCqtRfpvgjeEMQDKheN22FeTeM8Vj1jD1k7gyG4E+Cz6feMF0w3k3RurcPOPMKKg3yK3Az2ofwWjFO618BA+2/h7pDrji/ZUSPzmvSXRzZdqfkqZOkCtEZlEi3uAjiLmYL3Qeg59tuUMvrWQ/A6lbNBw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=HEyHSIGZUwy4gs0H/iSNULpaDCEWIQmoOyRb0DETnxM=; b=fol1pDBjQ6I2vh6OB2sK4WB+wgqaZw+sdkBqs9vfnlM5iTny0ID7P5bjd7kmtOsI0EhqcQkjh3crxbwoGWgcfvnkhV37NtXldi4eqCrMQFZi4+kjD7AI8z+MeibcUchNXnUIOW5TVYqdV09oiLvIjkBjijmf2XtgeRmK+NNAvQg2uchZjFFSFGslFvFRGAVVF7tfq1qd7W34HfWVue/7bz5kgO8oNGtwxQq2v7fdQ8zwhbyGpTTXk6/zDe7i5eDsfSo/3eNIwVJZyEZBNMIWdm16+G9odvLv6R/Sd7beFkQfba12f/U4CFg5lXMAdZOWd6zB0UNzXK9iXOU3kRgRyg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=HEyHSIGZUwy4gs0H/iSNULpaDCEWIQmoOyRb0DETnxM=; b=hdnTJS9X5MLUhp8OyA/wMfTSq1g4sT5r/oSCqA0dKrbNXtTls1joXodAjKfA2Vv8VTPx0HLbqj55EMRQ69D3lcW+hTd7c+MhUIlNQHeHpG465Fb6PSh21ZgGblffNQpSPNdTqLRconPq32N0EPP7R+MCkIaTX4niboB7cvDiX7Kir8qGyCJA+tNB708V5fmmq3xeaiIODl8YP3JNoFHjYy/7/eEdqOVIT0eRrj8e5uxVV7F0s24++ml1HBOTgQ17NI0smhLp80H7iLdOhwVhduShx4vUV9FncunVZebhicOm2RV56gm8PGiUT+W5XXfovuxaIsss5rjRxYEEjCsVpA== Received: from CO1PR06MB7994.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:303:e1::24) by MW4PR06MB8315.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:303:12a::16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4778.11; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 00:22:57 +0000 Received: from CO1PR06MB7994.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::cd7a:caa4:cb0d:3181]) by CO1PR06MB7994.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::cd7a:caa4:cb0d:3181%5]) with mapi id 15.20.4778.018; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 00:22:57 +0000 From: Jack Brooks To: Shop Talk Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] Furnace Filters Thread-Index: AQHX8G+OFFUFVDddl0aqVaPoYZw3I6wxBQMAgAAIKKA= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 00:21:45 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 23:24:15 +0000 References: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-tmn: [rGYgyCzyVEdCAefqvc3g+sHyj+uEMAof] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: e240548b-8603-4b0c-e669-08d9be97e0d9 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MW4PR06MB8315:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: TH5QRIrF2Wwe5KOzRvCMHi9wHihh8aDGJbuXdsQhYImo4Fe1a5Qis/MeO2CNiNDxE20NllL2oPHtA+dUb/Uid5UIrfICLyISJtCRNZPehodeCjNXpbNnevxFJ894ewJJiZjOMkCAV83P7OlpOiMZHfXatpx58we3i2m++GyyOCEi4v7EJu2dmc7byN/OXWtGBNt+8G5LxAoW5Uk13xVV8xIcqUIfEg6WJQCJ0k9ZGcE2kvnbFMfT1fUxSV02zJfnfW+0EwX4lkNMZ4MfZTq/EzkcT3RAE9o662aQdXwVEl6BpyBhPTYG3qwbHUCEBtE5cAJ56ga/C2NPAgY0QN7q4Guk28XE+Ob8gsN8thQTnvhKEQtmqZshIF1x+1B1hAHZaL3Z0YBwRvBKbNXbEj4OuCHF5JVxX468LgP6vjnd/RfWVBKzy1yucD7ZNMM4/gIhOPV0hBCyB/JBQxjaQh3CJCrUheHGeVDdfnnKICKqgCxPr9FdaGiTpXr5JYREihH9S2pLjiNPQ0t/v6bLwiKLAoPaJsZfErPRuRMT7Te3MxgXA2m+IBq9RzanEkILm3dSaEnNMleE3BFTb41Vvay0bB0OEUTkkzP14ONNpfyAF2pSFgcD5mqsulr34UtbwBmt x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?utf-8?B?MVFBWFlkUzhaYTg2dXI1RFVzcFMxSHA1VDgxWHZpSDYwcVpSNUV1clRmN1VX?= =?utf-8?B?Q01iNzVaSGgzNGg2NDI5V2d6bC9hblkwTXZFRm1GZzB5STlNeE02T25iaXVv?= =?utf-8?B?TzIyVGZ3MUZSVUpOdEMwTWhNcTZEUEpIUDdXZGtqNmdPSEJFTytqWHRYMWhw?= =?utf-8?B?cTNZVEUybEVaZUZZaTJTbCtvNHhRcnppMkRmbitRV215WmhveE51M083amxT?= =?utf-8?B?STQ1WDhscUhyZ3RPSS9FY2M0K3hLMzdIWWo2UG93M3NyUzcwRS9EUDZLRUJk?= =?utf-8?B?UzJYSkZPcEVWaTh0MmwzMzNxYlhRR2J0UnZwSzZNQzhJRkZMRFhJZE5EaVAy?= =?utf-8?B?OVZUcWUxTkxFNGhnYWJuNnVBbUpYZ2hsU3liMWU1TTk1OXI1cjJvenJwUS9w?= =?utf-8?B?S20zRnA0dXdKS0x3T2NEVkJ1T1hzd0tDbEQyU0hzZElmdG5EWi84S3BiVVA4?= =?utf-8?B?TDRRN1ZzT2kyc2dTY0VJNHdNOTVvdTh2ODRlcU1lcFMzV2QyNjZwWEg4ZFdY?= =?utf-8?B?cDhOK2hWNUdMU3k5ank5VnRSTUhZR1ZPVnVuWnhMdC8rdUVQQlZFeC9NOVJS?= =?utf-8?B?K21MeDJ5Y0U3cW5rbG9RSkJCZGJJOXRKaXVBTUR1OWlJakJ3ZUV6empld0lm?= =?utf-8?B?TjdEWVdVdHlrY3VCNjZVS2RCM3laVjJhN2UrMWxqaSt4cytGVkNPWE5iU2Ir?= =?utf-8?B?Wnd2RlB4VEovaEhMZW5DZlVtWm5TQ2NXcDlVZ3FGQjBBS0hiWVBYR1YzNFlB?= =?utf-8?B?MHdEQWZyME52TmhPaFFpUWVnVlFWVGhEdWhLZExOTVFQOTNhQ1h4RGszVUVV?= =?utf-8?B?MTZFZ2Q1YXFQVnNMam5EQjBRTSt5cnp1UTJzMkptc3RlWXJiUUxqWERNSnpO?= =?utf-8?B?UVltSG53c2w4YUlXOHMyQU5ybnVFOXN3UmN3bEliTG1EeWNkc3NxdEJDa25s?= =?utf-8?B?dFF3VVluK2YvOWhkUUFmb3h6Ly9CQzVkR0EyUnRKc1pYK2xCc2xjS3hPZmRr?= =?utf-8?B?UkJDL1htZWtJU1d1SFRwVXhYQ2VqdSs4VGVoeVNIMDlXZy8xMEhzVzVhSXBx?= =?utf-8?B?cEpld25WWnBJeGlUeXRhZWovSzFQTnErdVFFT0Zzc0FjUFJoYXZ3ZzZZN1BW?= =?utf-8?B?REdaZENsZHRyaW4xUFU4aFNNYXZNT0I1UURhYTBiTnF4L1dRc0VDQnNJdnI3?= =?utf-8?B?RGFxRUF2RFNLMGFoczJ5aUtoNzYzK01hVG9QblNUREQzUzZtSGFKOTNyZCtk?= =?utf-8?B?OTQ4RS8wWXd1Z2o1WTRZV1dwRzFRVkM3L0NVZzErczhPc0lWQT09?= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Furnace Filters Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7908086876938451635== Content-Language: en-US boundary="_000_CO1PR06MB79949C5BBDA98065EB8B65B8A8759CO1PR06MB7994namp_" --_000_CO1PR06MB79949C5BBDA98065EB8B65B8A8759CO1PR06MB7994namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QmluZ28hICBKaW0gaGl0IHRoZSBuYWlsIG9uIHRoZSBoZWFkLg0KDQpUaGUgNCBpbmNoIGZpbHRl ciBoYXMgYSBsb3dlciBwcmVzc3VyZSBkcm9wIGJlY2F1c2Ugb2Ygb3ZlcmFsbCBncmVhdGVyIGZp bHRyYXRpb24gYXJlYSBkdWUgdG8gYWxsIG9mIHRoZSBkZWVwIHBsZWF0cy4gSXQgYWxzbyBoYXMg YSBsb3dlciBmcmVxdWVuY3kgb2YgZmlsdGVyIGNoYW5nZSBvdXQgZm9yIHRoZSBzYW1lIHJlYXNv bi4gIFVzaW5nIHR3byBvbmUgaW5jaCBmaWx0ZXJzIHRvZ2V0aGVyIHdpbGwgaW1wYWN0IHlvdXIg Zmxvdy4gSXQgbWF5IG5vdCBhZmZlY3QgeW91ciBwZXJmb3JtYW5jZSBub3RpY2VhYmx5LCBidXQg aXQgd2lsbCBjaGFuZ2UgdGhlIHN5c3RlbSBmbG93LCBkcml2ZSB1cCBmYW4gZW5lcmd5IGNvc3Rz LCBldGMuDQoNCmh0dHBzOi8vbm9yZGljcHVyZS5jb20vIHNlZW1zIHRvIGhhdmUgYSBsb3Qgb2Yg c2l6ZXMgaW4gc3RvY2sgYW5kIHRoZXkgYXJlIG5vdCB0b28gYmFkbHkgcHJpY2VkIGVpdGhlciBv biB0aGVpciB3ZWJzaXRlIG9yIEFtYXpvbi4gIEnigJl2ZSB1c2VkIHRoZW0gZm9yIGEgd2hpbGUg YW5kIGFtIGhhcHB5IHdpdGggdGhlbS4gVGhleSBhcmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGluIGEgd2lkZSByYW5n ZSBvZiBNRVJWIHJhdGluZ3MgdG9vLg0KDQpJIGhhdmUgYSBkaWZmZXJlbnRpYWwgcHJlc3N1cmUg bWV0ZXIgYWNyb3NzIG15IGZpbHRlci4gIEl0IHJlZ2lzdGVycyAwLTAuMjUgaW5jaGVzIG9mIEgy Ty4gIEkgbGV0IHRoYXQgZ3VpZGUgbXkgY2hhbmdlb3V0IGZyZXF1ZW5jeSwgd2hpY2ggb2Z0ZW4g aXMgYXJvdW5kIGEgeWVhciBiZWZvcmUgdGhlIHByZXNzdXJlIGRyb3AgaW5kaWNhdGUgdG8gbWUg dGhhdCBpdCBzaG91bGQgYmUgY2hhbmdlZC4gT2ssIHllcywgSSBhbSBhIE1lY2hhbmljYWwgRW5n aW5lcmQuDQoNCkphY2sNCg0KRnJvbTogU2hvcC10YWxrIDxzaG9wLXRhbGstYm91bmNlc0BhdXRv eC50ZWFtLm5ldD4gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEpvaG4gSW5uaXMNClNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgRGVjZW1i ZXIgMTMsIDIwMjEgMjo0NCBQTQ0KVG86IEppbSBTdG9uZSA8MTc4OWFscGluZUBnbWFpbC5jb20+ DQpDYzogU2hvcCBUYWxrIDxzaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQ+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTog W1Nob3AtdGFsa10gRnVybmFjZSBGaWx0ZXJzDQoNClRoZSBvbmx5IHJlYWwgaXNzdWUgaXMgdGhh dCB5b3Ugd2lsbCBub3QgZ2V0IGFzIG11Y2ggYWlyZmxvdyB0aHJvdWdoIGEgMSIgZmlsdGVyIG9m IGEgZ2l2ZW4gZWZmZWN0aXZlbmVzcy4gIE1vc3Qgb2YgdGhlIHRpbWUgdGhhdCdzIG5vdCBhIGJp ZyBkZWFsLiAgSW4gb3VyIHByZXZpb3VzIGhvdXNlIHdlIGRpZCBoYXZlIGFuIGlzc3VlIHdpdGgg dGhlIEFDIGZyZWV6aW5nIHVwIHdoZW4gaXQgd2FzIHdvcmtpbmcgcmVhbGx5IGhhcmQuICBJbiB0 aGF0IGNhc2UgdGhlIHNvbHV0aW9uIHdhcyBhIGxvd2VyIGVmZmVjdGl2ZW5lc3MgZmlsdGVyIGJl Y2F1c2UgdGhlIGJveCBjb3VsZCBub3QgYWNjb21tb2RhdGUgYSB0aGlja2VyIGZpbHRlci4gIElm IHlvdSBhcmUgaGFwcHkgd2l0aCB0aGUgcGVyZm9ybWFuY2Ugb2YgdGhlIDEiIGZpbHRlciBhbmQg aGF2ZSBub3QgaGFkIGFueSBpc3N1ZXMsIGknZCBzYXkgc3RpY2sgd2l0aCBpdC4gIEkgZG8gTk9U IHJlY29tbWVuZCBzdGFja2luZyB0d28gb25lIGluY2ggZmlsdGVycy4NCg0KT24gTW9uLCBEZWMg MTMsIDIwMjEgYXQgNDoyMCBQTSBKaW0gU3RvbmUgPDE3ODlhbHBpbmVAZ21haWwuY29tPG1haWx0 bzoxNzg5YWxwaW5lQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4+IHdyb3RlOg0KVGhlIGNvbXBhbnkgdGhhdCBpbnN0YWxs ZWQgbXkgSFZBQyBzeXN0ZW0gYSBmZXcgeWVhcnMgYWdvIHVzZWQgYSBmaWx0ZXIgYm94IG9uIHRo ZSByZXR1cm4gbGluZSB0aGF0IHRha2VzIDIw4oCdIHggMjUiIHggNOKAnSBmaWx0ZXJzLCB3aGlj aCBpcyBhbiB1bnVzdWFsLCBhbmQgdGh1cyBleHBlbnNpdmUsIHNpemUgLSBmaWx0ZXJzIGdlbmVy YWxseSBydW4gYWJvdXQgJDI1IGVhY2ggLSB0aGF0IGlzIG5vdCByZWFkaWx5IGF2YWlsYWJsZSBv dGhlciB0aGFuIG9ubGluZS4gIER1cmluZyBjb25zdHJ1Y3Rpb24sIG15IGdlbmVyYWwgY29udHJh Y3RvciBqdXN0IGhhZCBhIGNoZWFwIDIw4oCdIHggMjUiIHggMeKAnSBmaWx0ZXIgaW4gdGhlcmUg dGhhdCBzZWVtZWQgdG8gd29yayBqdXN0IGZpbmUuICBJIGNoZWNrZWQgdGhlIGluc3RhbGxhdGlv biBpbnN0cnVjdGlvbnMgZm9yIHRoZSBmdXJuYWNlIGFuZCB0aGVyZSBhcmUgbm8gc3BlY2lmaWNh dGlvbnMgZm9yIHRoZSBmaWx0ZXJzLCBvdGhlciB0aGFuIHRoYXQgdGhleSBuZWVkIHRvIGJlIGNo YW5nZWQgcmVndWxhcmx5LCB3aGljaCBpcyBnZXR0aW5nIHByZXR0eSBleHBlbnNpdmUuICBJcyB0 aGVyZSBhbnkgcmVhc29uIEkgY291bGRu4oCZdCBqdXN0IHVzZSAx4oCdIGZpbHRlcnMsIHdoaWNo IGFyZSBsZXNzIHRoYW4gaGFsZiB0aGUgcHJpY2U/ICBNYXliZSBldmVuIHB1dCB0d28gb2YgdGhl bSBpbiB0aGUgYm94LCBhIGdvb2Qgb25lIGZpcnN0IHRvIGNhdGNoIG1vc3Qgb2YgdGhlIGR1c3Qg YW5kIGEgY2hlYXAgb25lIGxpa2UgdGhlIGNvbnRyYWN0b3IgdXNlZCBhcyBhIHNlY29uZGFyeSBv bmUuICBJdCBpcyBhIHNudWcgZml0IGFuZCBJIGRvbuKAmXQgdGhpbmsgdGhlcmUgaXMgYW55IGRh bmdlciBvZiB0aGVtIHRpcHBpbmcsIGJ1dCB0d28gd291bGQgbWFrZSBpdCBpbXBvc3NpYmxlLg0K DQpUaGFua3MsDQpKaW0NCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fDQoNClNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldDxtYWlsdG86U2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94 LnRlYW0ubmV0Pg0KRG9uYXRlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L2RvbmF0ZS5odG1sDQpTdWdn ZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYNCkFyY2hpdmU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5u ZXQvcGlwZXJtYWlsL3Nob3AtdGFsayBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZQ0KDQpV bnN1YnNjcmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMv c2hvcC10YWxrL2pkaW5uaXNAZ21haWwuY29tDQoNCg0KLS0NCj09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KPSBOZXZlciBvZmZlbmQgcGVvcGxlIHdpdGggc3R5bGUgd2hlbiB5b3Ug ICA9DQo9IGNhbiBvZmZlbmQgd2l0aCBzdWJzdGFuY2UgLS0tIFNhbSBCcm93biAgPQ0KPT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQo= --_000_CO1PR06MB79949C5BBDA98065EB8B65B8A8759CO1PR06MB7994namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWwgeG1sbnM6dj0idXJuOnNjaGVtYXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTp2bWwiIHhtbG5zOm89InVy bjpzY2hlbWFzLW1pY3Jvc29mdC1jb206b2ZmaWNlOm9mZmljZSIgeG1sbnM6dz0idXJuOnNjaGVt YXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTpvZmZpY2U6d29yZCIgeG1sbnM6bT0iaHR0cDovL3NjaGVtYXMubWlj cm9zb2Z0LmNvbS9vZmZpY2UvMjAwNC8xMi9vbW1sIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcv VFIvUkVDLWh0bWw0MCI+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIg Y29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04Ij4NCjxtZXRhIG5hbWU9IkdlbmVyYXRv ciIgY29udGVudD0iTWljcm9zb2Z0IFdvcmQgMTUgKGZpbHRlcmVkIG1lZGl1bSkiPg0KPHN0eWxl PjwhLS0NCi8qIEZvbnQgRGVmaW5pdGlvbnMgKi8NCkBmb250LWZhY2UNCgl7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6 IkNhbWJyaWEgTWF0aCI7DQoJcGFub3NlLTE6MiA0IDUgMyA1IDQgNiAzIDIgNDt9DQpAZm9udC1m YWNlDQoJe2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OkNhbGlicmk7DQoJcGFub3NlLTE6MiAxNSA1IDIgMiAyIDQgMyAy IDQ7fQ0KLyogU3R5bGUgRGVmaW5pdGlvbnMgKi8NCnAuTXNvTm9ybWFsLCBsaS5Nc29Ob3JtYWws IGRpdi5Nc29Ob3JtYWwNCgl7bWFyZ2luOjBpbjsNCglmb250LXNpemU6MTEuMHB0Ow0KCWZvbnQt ZmFtaWx5OiJDYWxpYnJpIixzYW5zLXNlcmlmO30NCmE6bGluaywgc3Bhbi5Nc29IeXBlcmxpbmsN Cgl7bXNvLXN0eWxlLXByaW9yaXR5Ojk5Ow0KCWNvbG9yOmJsdWU7DQoJdGV4dC1kZWNvcmF0aW9u OnVuZGVybGluZTt9DQpzcGFuLkVtYWlsU3R5bGUxOA0KCXttc28tc3R5bGUtdHlwZTpwZXJzb25h bC1yZXBseTsNCglmb250LWZhbWlseToiVGltZXMgTmV3IFJvbWFuIixzZXJpZjsNCglmb250LXZh cmlhbnQ6bm9ybWFsICFpbXBvcnRhbnQ7DQoJY29sb3I6IzAwMjA2MDsNCgl0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9y bTpub25lOw0KCXRleHQtZGVjb3JhdGlvbjpub25lIG5vbmU7DQoJdmVydGljYWwtYWxpZ246YmFz ZWxpbmU7fQ0KLk1zb0NocERlZmF1bHQNCgl7bXNvLXN0eWxlLXR5cGU6ZXhwb3J0LW9ubHk7DQoJ Zm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjBwdDt9DQpAcGFnZSBXb3JkU2VjdGlvbjENCgl7c2l6ZTo4LjVpbiAxMS4w aW47DQoJbWFyZ2luOjEuMGluIDEuMGluIDEuMGluIDEuMGluO30NCmRpdi5Xb3JkU2VjdGlvbjEN Cgl7cGFnZTpXb3JkU2VjdGlvbjE7fQ0KLS0+PC9zdHlsZT48IS0tW2lmIGd0ZSBtc28gOV0+PHht bD4NCjxvOnNoYXBlZGVmYXVsdHMgdjpleHQ9ImVkaXQiIHNwaWRtYXg9IjEwMjYiIC8+DQo8L3ht bD48IVtlbmRpZl0tLT48IS0tW2lmIGd0ZSBtc28gOV0+PHhtbD4NCjxvOnNoYXBlbGF5b3V0IHY6 ZXh0PSJlZGl0Ij4NCjxvOmlkbWFwIHY6ZXh0PSJlZGl0IiBkYXRhPSIxIiAvPg0KPC9vOnNoYXBl bGF5b3V0PjwveG1sPjwhW2VuZGlmXS0tPg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KPGJvZHkgbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIGxp bms9ImJsdWUiIHZsaW5rPSJwdXJwbGUiIHN0eWxlPSJ3b3JkLXdyYXA6YnJlYWstd29yZCI+DQo8 ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSJXb3JkU2VjdGlvbjEiPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5 bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMi4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7VGltZXMgTmV3IFJvbWFuJnF1 b3Q7LHNlcmlmO2NvbG9yOiMwMDIwNjAiPkJpbmdvISZuYnNwOyBKaW0gaGl0IHRoZSBuYWlsIG9u IHRoZSBoZWFkLiZuYnNwOw0KPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05v cm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMi4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7VGlt ZXMgTmV3IFJvbWFuJnF1b3Q7LHNlcmlmO2NvbG9yOiMwMDIwNjAiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+ PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6 MTIuMHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiZxdW90O1RpbWVzIE5ldyBSb21hbiZxdW90OyxzZXJpZjtjb2xv cjojMDAyMDYwIj5UaGUgNCBpbmNoIGZpbHRlciBoYXMgYSBsb3dlciBwcmVzc3VyZSBkcm9wIGJl Y2F1c2Ugb2Ygb3ZlcmFsbCBncmVhdGVyIGZpbHRyYXRpb24gYXJlYSBkdWUgdG8gYWxsIG9mIHRo ZSBkZWVwIHBsZWF0cy4gSXQgYWxzbyBoYXMgYSBsb3dlciBmcmVxdWVuY3kgb2YgZmlsdGVyDQog Y2hhbmdlIG91dCBmb3IgdGhlIHNhbWUgcmVhc29uLiAmbmJzcDtVc2luZyB0d28gb25lIGluY2gg ZmlsdGVycyB0b2dldGhlciB3aWxsIGltcGFjdCB5b3VyIGZsb3cuIEl0IG1heSBub3QgYWZmZWN0 IHlvdXIgcGVyZm9ybWFuY2Ugbm90aWNlYWJseSwgYnV0IGl0IHdpbGwgY2hhbmdlIHRoZSBzeXN0 ZW0gZmxvdywgZHJpdmUgdXAgZmFuIGVuZXJneSBjb3N0cywgZXRjLiZuYnNwOw0KPGJyPg0KPGJy Pg0KPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cHM6Ly9ub3JkaWNwdXJlLmNvbS8iPmh0dHBzOi8vbm9yZGljcHVyZS5j b20vPC9hPiBzZWVtcyB0byBoYXZlIGEgbG90IG9mIHNpemVzIGluIHN0b2NrIGFuZCB0aGV5IGFy ZSBub3QgdG9vIGJhZGx5IHByaWNlZCBlaXRoZXIgb24gdGhlaXIgd2Vic2l0ZSBvciBBbWF6b24u Jm5ic3A7IEnigJl2ZSB1c2VkIHRoZW0gZm9yIGEgd2hpbGUgYW5kIGFtIGhhcHB5IHdpdGggdGhl bS4gVGhleSBhcmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGluIGEgd2lkZSByYW5nZSBvZg0KIE1FUlYgcmF0aW5ncyB0 b28uPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5 bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMi4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7VGltZXMgTmV3IFJvbWFuJnF1 b3Q7LHNlcmlmO2NvbG9yOiMwMDIwNjAiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxw IGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFt aWx5OiZxdW90O1RpbWVzIE5ldyBSb21hbiZxdW90OyxzZXJpZjtjb2xvcjojMDAyMDYwIj5JIGhh dmUgYSBkaWZmZXJlbnRpYWwgcHJlc3N1cmUgbWV0ZXIgYWNyb3NzIG15IGZpbHRlci4mbmJzcDsg SXQgcmVnaXN0ZXJzIDAtMC4yNSBpbmNoZXMgb2YgSDxzdWI+Mjwvc3ViPk8uJm5ic3A7IEkgbGV0 IHRoYXQgZ3VpZGUgbXkgY2hhbmdlb3V0IGZyZXF1ZW5jeSwgd2hpY2ggb2Z0ZW4NCiBpcyBhcm91 bmQgYSB5ZWFyIGJlZm9yZSB0aGUgcHJlc3N1cmUgZHJvcCBpbmRpY2F0ZSB0byBtZSB0aGF0IGl0 IHNob3VsZCBiZSBjaGFuZ2VkLiBPaywgeWVzLCBJIGFtIGEgTWVjaGFuaWNhbCBFbmdpbmVyZC48 bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0i Zm9udC1zaXplOjEyLjBwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtUaW1lcyBOZXcgUm9tYW4mcXVvdDss c2VyaWY7Y29sb3I6IzAwMjA2MCI+PGJyPg0KSmFjazxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxw IGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFt aWx5OiZxdW90O1RpbWVzIE5ldyBSb21hbiZxdW90OyxzZXJpZjtjb2xvcjojMDAyMDYwIj48bzpw PiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8ZGl2IHN0eWxlPSJib3JkZXI6bm9uZTtib3JkZXIt dG9wOnNvbGlkICNFMUUxRTEgMS4wcHQ7cGFkZGluZzozLjBwdCAwaW4gMGluIDBpbiI+DQo8cCBj bGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48Yj5Gcm9tOjwvYj4gU2hvcC10YWxrICZsdDtzaG9wLXRhbGstYm91 bmNlc0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldCZndDsgPGI+DQpPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgPC9iPkpvaG4gSW5uaXM8 YnI+DQo8Yj5TZW50OjwvYj4gTW9uZGF5LCBEZWNlbWJlciAxMywgMjAyMSAyOjQ0IFBNPGJyPg0K PGI+VG86PC9iPiBKaW0gU3RvbmUgJmx0OzE3ODlhbHBpbmVAZ21haWwuY29tJmd0Ozxicj4NCjxi PkNjOjwvYj4gU2hvcCBUYWxrICZsdDtzaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQmZ3Q7PGJyPg0K PGI+U3ViamVjdDo8L2I+IFJlOiBbU2hvcC10YWxrXSBGdXJuYWNlIEZpbHRlcnM8bzpwPjwvbzpw PjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3A+ DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+VGhlIG9ubHkgcmVhbCBpc3N1ZSBpcyB0aGF0 IHlvdSB3aWxsIG5vdCBnZXQgYXMgbXVjaCBhaXJmbG93IHRocm91Z2ggYSAxJnF1b3Q7IGZpbHRl ciBvZiBhIGdpdmVuIGVmZmVjdGl2ZW5lc3MuJm5ic3A7IE1vc3Qgb2YgdGhlIHRpbWUgdGhhdCdz IG5vdCBhIGJpZyBkZWFsLiZuYnNwOyBJbiBvdXIgcHJldmlvdXMgaG91c2Ugd2UgZGlkIGhhdmUg YW4gaXNzdWUgd2l0aCB0aGUgQUMgZnJlZXppbmcgdXAgd2hlbiBpdCB3YXMgd29ya2luZw0KIHJl YWxseSBoYXJkLiZuYnNwOyBJbiB0aGF0IGNhc2UgdGhlIHNvbHV0aW9uIHdhcyBhIGxvd2VyIGVm ZmVjdGl2ZW5lc3MgZmlsdGVyIGJlY2F1c2UgdGhlIGJveCBjb3VsZCBub3QgYWNjb21tb2RhdGUg YSB0aGlja2VyIGZpbHRlci4mbmJzcDsgSWYgeW91IGFyZSBoYXBweSB3aXRoIHRoZSBwZXJmb3Jt YW5jZSBvZiB0aGUgMSZxdW90OyBmaWx0ZXIgYW5kIGhhdmUgbm90IGhhZCBhbnkgaXNzdWVzLCBp J2Qgc2F5IHN0aWNrIHdpdGggaXQuJm5ic3A7IEkgZG8gTk9UIHJlY29tbWVuZA0KIHN0YWNraW5n IHR3byBvbmUgaW5jaCBmaWx0ZXJzLiAmbmJzcDs8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPHAg Y2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3A+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxw IGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPk9uIE1vbiwgRGVjIDEzLCAyMDIxIGF0IDQ6MjAgUE0gSmltIFN0 b25lICZsdDs8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86MTc4OWFscGluZUBnbWFpbC5jb20iPjE3ODlhbHBpbmVA Z21haWwuY29tPC9hPiZndDsgd3JvdGU6PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxibG9ja3F1 b3RlIHN0eWxlPSJib3JkZXI6bm9uZTtib3JkZXItbGVmdDpzb2xpZCAjQ0NDQ0NDIDEuMHB0O3Bh ZGRpbmc6MGluIDBpbiAwaW4gNi4wcHQ7bWFyZ2luLWxlZnQ6NC44cHQ7bWFyZ2luLXRvcDo1LjBw dDttYXJnaW4tcmlnaHQ6MGluO21hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206NS4wcHQiPg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNz PSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPlRoZSBjb21wYW55IHRoYXQgaW5zdGFsbGVkIG15IEhWQUMgc3lzdGVtIGEg ZmV3IHllYXJzIGFnbyB1c2VkIGEgZmlsdGVyIGJveCBvbiB0aGUgcmV0dXJuIGxpbmUgdGhhdCB0 YWtlcyAyMOKAnSB4IDI1JnF1b3Q7IHg8Yj4gNOKAnTwvYj4gZmlsdGVycywgd2hpY2ggaXMgYW4g dW51c3VhbCwgYW5kIHRodXMgZXhwZW5zaXZlLCBzaXplIC0gZmlsdGVycyBnZW5lcmFsbHkgcnVu IGFib3V0ICQyNSBlYWNoIC0gdGhhdCBpcyBub3QNCiByZWFkaWx5IGF2YWlsYWJsZSBvdGhlciB0 aGFuIG9ubGluZS4mbmJzcDsgRHVyaW5nIGNvbnN0cnVjdGlvbiwgbXkgZ2VuZXJhbCBjb250cmFj dG9yIGp1c3QgaGFkIGEmbmJzcDtjaGVhcCAyMOKAnSB4IDI1JnF1b3Q7IHgNCjxiPjHigJ0gPC9i PmZpbHRlciBpbiB0aGVyZSB0aGF0IHNlZW1lZCB0byB3b3JrIGp1c3QgZmluZS4mbmJzcDsgSSBj aGVja2VkIHRoZSBpbnN0YWxsYXRpb24gaW5zdHJ1Y3Rpb25zIGZvciB0aGUgZnVybmFjZSBhbmQg dGhlcmUgYXJlIG5vIHNwZWNpZmljYXRpb25zIGZvciB0aGUgZmlsdGVycywgb3RoZXIgdGhhbiB0 aGF0IHRoZXkgbmVlZCB0byBiZSBjaGFuZ2VkIHJlZ3VsYXJseSwgd2hpY2ggaXMgZ2V0dGluZyBw cmV0dHkgZXhwZW5zaXZlLiZuYnNwOyBJcyB0aGVyZQ0KIGFueSByZWFzb24gSSBjb3VsZG7igJl0 IGp1c3QgdXNlIDHigJ0gZmlsdGVycywgd2hpY2ggYXJlIGxlc3MgdGhhbiBoYWxmIHRoZSBwcmlj ZT8mbmJzcDsgTWF5YmUgZXZlbiBwdXQgdHdvIG9mIHRoZW0gaW4gdGhlIGJveCwgYSBnb29kIG9u ZSBmaXJzdCB0byBjYXRjaCBtb3N0IG9mIHRoZSBkdXN0IGFuZCBhIGNoZWFwIG9uZSBsaWtlIHRo ZSBjb250cmFjdG9yIHVzZWQgYXMgYSBzZWNvbmRhcnkgb25lLiZuYnNwOyBJdCBpcyBhIHNudWcg Zml0IGFuZCBJIGRvbuKAmXQgdGhpbmsNCiB0aGVyZSBpcyBhbnkgZGFuZ2VyIG9mIHRoZW0gdGlw cGluZywgYnV0IHR3byB3b3VsZCBtYWtlIGl0IGltcG9zc2libGUuPG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8 ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4N CjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj5UaGFua3MsPG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rp dj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj5KaW08bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2 Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIiBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbToxMi4w cHQiPl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fPGJyPg0K PGJyPg0KPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOlNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldCIgdGFyZ2V0PSJf YmxhbmsiPlNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldDwvYT48YnI+DQpEb25hdGU6IDxhIGhyZWY9 Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwiIHRhcmdldD0iX2JsYW5rIj5odHRwOi8v d3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L2RvbmF0ZS5odG1sPC9hPjxicj4NClN1Z2dlc3RlZCBhbm51YWwgZG9uYXRp b24mbmJzcDsgJDEyLjk2PGJyPg0KQXJjaGl2ZTogPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5l dC9waXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIiB0YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+aHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5l dC9waXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrPC9hPg0KPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0 L2FyY2hpdmUiIHRhcmdldD0iX2JsYW5rIj5odHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZTwv YT48YnI+DQo8YnI+DQpVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IDxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50 ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10YWxrL2pkaW5uaXNAZ21haWwuY29tIiB0YXJn ZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+DQpodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3At dGFsay9qZGlubmlzQGdtYWlsLmNvbTwvYT48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT4N CjwvZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PGJyIGNsZWFyPSJhbGwiPg0KPGJyPg0KLS0g PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PGJyPg0KPSBOZXZlciBvZmZlbmQgcGVvcGxlIHdpdGggc3R5 bGUgd2hlbiB5b3UmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsgPTxicj4NCj0gY2FuIG9mZmVuZCB3aXRoIHN1YnN0YW5j ZSAtLS0gU2FtIEJyb3duJm5ic3A7ID08YnI+DQo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT08bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_CO1PR06MB79949C5BBDA98065EB8B65B8A8759CO1PR06MB7994namp_-- --===============7908086876938451635== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7908086876938451635==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 13 18:11:02 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F720A0A1F for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 18:11:02 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qv1-f45.google.com (unknown [209.85.219.45]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A85B5A0675 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 18:10:51 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-qv1-f45.google.com with SMTP id a24so16076014qvb.5 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 17:10:51 -0800 (PST) h=from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=aLLEj1CPT56H6Z078Q9guXNEazimApQVthQVyws7U+o=; b=mIjAZqMu4Ysnnt36yOK4+5piVi60k81dh9vLedCHroQArt+0na4HWsUNgwtlnhR1Kb vPmg2JHbAi1ZDECtJLz1ZN7LHGdMzpsx08dYJfeq9igOx+BXR6s6+3/wHDIVv9imyz7k Jz5cs9I69Jwzlxs568332RNcNFebQK5wY9wbP+6pM2YGOm76FnxwTt1Vu/XCAv4Ezz9s M45FjVVfdvPZrlHQ1q6bYtfxKEDFrG7+jz02IVE/lbpw+UDqmeLjlE2kRTcPBO5nF0HX ktqsRdW6Btk81+Ko3Eh6x5XY1zBlOAa8Buu/4iEbnBO1uhC6efvYY/ilKblirPXrNTts RA8A== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to:message-id; bh=aLLEj1CPT56H6Z078Q9guXNEazimApQVthQVyws7U+o=; b=15r4lgGlu5Jg23hbbWrbLZNzwMhs6rulkf9/JewfyGbZ80m/A4nqM4FtAJRUpLbFh6 FD9rM8bGJgGSRWQOhq8Uslebe8FMwTAnjGzmrQ141FtMVSZ2JUc5ctD5nxqDaIcwrKb3 A6J42WLKxWPc//7OW8HtMYiHS+aT6zdv9TDwBKeoehdimqmBreOtjabZuQbL21NK1pf9 j6ZhwS6yhtheWoiTj53gx2wCXU47V1RQq/hgcd33XsiaB/KAqv71Fg62VrUwGcAIABbD 2Bfv8Liz35oWl7yHFXF/06lA2jmQGhM1hQLPa6KkhGa5OZDnz41ai+Ermsp/hndK4dAm AUBw== 6S1OSKu8PEO9xKhdyV+oYiaG8VZpiyQQAA== t13mr2020228qvc.67.1639444250735; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 17:10:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from macbook-pro-3.lan (ool-4350ed26.dyn.optonline.net. [67.80.237.38]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y11sm11638568qta.6.2021.12.13.17.10.50 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 13 Dec 2021 17:10:50 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 20:10:49 -0500 References: To: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Furnace Filters Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7881008891135390627== boundary="Apple-Mail=_A165F18C-2D7B-44E5-833D-5F1454B05A25" --Apple-Mail=_A165F18C-2D7B-44E5-833D-5F1454B05A25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 Thanks again, guys. I had a feeling that there would be at least one = expert on the list, but it looks like I got two, at least in the first = couple of hours. And, they both agree! :) Jack: a differential meter is an interesting idea, especially given the = cost of the bigger filters. It certainly doesn=E2=80=99t make sense to = replace them more frequently than necessary. I am not a mechanical = enginerd, just a plain old ordinary nerd. Still, I like playing around = with new things. Would something like this work? = https://www.amazon.com/Manometer-Differential-Backlight-Ventilation-Measur= ement/dp/B07K7HT3XJ/ref=3Dasc_df_B07K7HT3XJ/?tag=3Dhyprod-20&linkCode=3Ddf= 0&hvadid=3D312099766989&hvpos=3D&hvnetw=3Dg&hvrand=3D20692614293351478&hvp= one=3D&hvptwo=3D&hvqmt=3D&hvdev=3Dc&hvdvcmdl=3D&hvlocint=3D&hvlocphy=3D900= 4590&hvtargid=3Dpla-622729475514&psc=3D1. I=E2=80=99m thinking of = drilling a couple of holes in the filter box and semi-permanently = mounting it.=20 Jim > On Dec 13, 2021, at 7:21 PM, Jack Brooks wrote: >=20 > Bingo! Jim hit the nail on the head.=20 > =20 > The 4 inch filter has a lower pressure drop because of overall greater = filtration area due to all of the deep pleats. It also has a lower = frequency of filter change out for the same reason. Using two one inch = filters together will impact your flow. It may not affect your = performance noticeably, but it will change the system flow, drive up fan = energy costs, etc. =20 >=20 > https://nordicpure.com/ seems to have a lot = of sizes in stock and they are not too badly priced either on their = website or Amazon. I=E2=80=99ve used them for a while and am happy with = them. They are available in a wide range of MERV ratings too. > =20 > I have a differential pressure meter across my filter. It registers = 0-0.25 inches of H2O. I let that guide my changeout frequency, which = often is around a year before the pressure drop indicate to me that it = should be changed. Ok, yes, I am a Mechanical Enginerd. >=20 > Jack > =20 > From: Shop-talk On Behalf Of John = Innis > Sent: Monday, December 13, 2021 2:44 PM > To: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> > Cc: Shop Talk > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Furnace Filters > =20 > The only real issue is that you will not get as much airflow through a = 1" filter of a given effectiveness. Most of the time that's not a big = deal. In our previous house we did have an issue with the AC freezing = up when it was working really hard. In that case the solution was a = lower effectiveness filter because the box could not accommodate a = thicker filter. If you are happy with the performance of the 1" filter = and have not had any issues, i'd say stick with it. I do NOT recommend = stacking two one inch filters. =20 > =20 > On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 4:20 PM Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com = > The company that installed my HVAC system a few years ago used a = filter box on the return line that takes 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 4=E2=80=9D = filters, which is an unusual, and thus expensive, size - filters = generally run about $25 each - that is not readily available other than = online. During construction, my general contractor just had a cheap = 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 1=E2=80=9D filter in there that seemed to work just = fine. I checked the installation instructions for the furnace and there = are no specifications for the filters, other than that they need to be = changed regularly, which is getting pretty expensive. Is there any = reason I couldn=E2=80=99t just use 1=E2=80=9D filters, which are less = than half the price? Maybe even put two of them in the box, a good one = first to catch most of the dust and a cheap one like the contractor used = as a secondary one. It is a snug fit and I don=E2=80=99t think there is = any danger of them tipping, but two would make it impossible. > =20 > Thanks, > Jim > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html = > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive = >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com = >=20 >=20 > --=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > =3D Never offend people with style when you =3D > =3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown =3D > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --Apple-Mail=_A165F18C-2D7B-44E5-833D-5F1454B05A25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 Thanks again, guys. I had a feeling that there would be = at least one expert on the list, but it looks like I got two, at least = in the first couple of hours. And, they both agree! :)

Jack: a differential = meter is an interesting idea, especially given the cost of the bigger = filters. It certainly doesn=E2=80=99t make sense to replace them = more frequently than necessary. I am not a mechanical enginerd, = just a plain old ordinary nerd. Still, I like playing around with = new things. Would something like this work? https://www.amazon.com/Manometer-Differential-Backlight-Ventila= tion-Measurement/dp/B07K7HT3XJ/ref=3Dasc_df_B07K7HT3XJ/?tag=3Dhyprod-20&am= p;linkCode=3Ddf0&hvadid=3D312099766989&hvpos=3D&hvnetw=3Dg&= ;hvrand=3D20692614293351478&hvpone=3D&hvptwo=3D&hvqmt=3D&h= vdev=3Dc&hvdvcmdl=3D&hvlocint=3D&hvlocphy=3D9004590&hvtarg= id=3Dpla-622729475514&psc=3D1. I=E2=80=99m thinking of drilling = a couple of holes in the filter box and semi-permanently mounting = it.

Jim

On Dec 13, 2021, at 7:21 PM, Jack Brooks <JIBrooks@live.com> = wrote:

Bingo! Jim hit the nail on the head.

The 4 inch filter has a lower = pressure drop because of overall greater filtration area due to all of = the deep pleats. It also has a lower frequency of filter change out for = the same reason. Using two one inch filters together will impact = your flow. It may not affect your performance noticeably, but it will = change the system flow, drive up fan energy costs, etc.

https://nordicpure.com/ seems to have a lot of = sizes in stock and they are not too badly priced either on their website = or Amazon. I=E2=80=99ve used them for a while and am happy with = them. They are available in a wide range of MERV ratings too.

I have a differential pressure = meter across my filter. It registers 0-0.25 inches of H₂O. I let that guide my changeout frequency, = which often is around a year before the pressure drop indicate to me = that it should be changed. Ok, yes, I am a Mechanical Enginerd.

Jack

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf = Of John Innis
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2021 = 2:44 PM
To: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com>
Cc: Shop = Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Furnace = Filters

The only = real issue is that you will not get as much airflow through a 1" filter = of a given effectiveness. Most of the time that's not a big = deal. In our previous house we did have an issue with the AC = freezing up when it was working really hard. In that case the = solution was a lower effectiveness filter because the box could not = accommodate a thicker filter. If you are happy with the = performance of the 1" filter and have not had any issues, i'd say stick = with it. I do NOT recommend stacking two one inch filters. =

On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 4:20 PM Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> = wrote:
The company that = installed my HVAC system a few years ago used a filter box on the return = line that takes 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 4=E2=80=9D filters, which is an = unusual, and thus expensive, size - filters generally run about $25 each = - that is not readily available other than online. During = construction, my general contractor just had a cheap 20=E2=80=9D x = 25" x 1=E2=80=9D filter in there that = seemed to work just fine. I checked the installation instructions = for the furnace and there are no specifications for the filters, other = than that they need to be changed regularly, which is getting pretty = expensive. Is there any reason I couldn=E2=80=99t just use 1=E2=80=9D= filters, which are less than half the price? Maybe even put two = of them in the box, a good one first to catch most of the dust and a = cheap one like the contractor used as a secondary one. It is a = snug fit and I don=E2=80=99t think there is any danger of them tipping, = but two would make it impossible.

Thanks,
Jim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested = annual donation $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.c= om

--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D Never offend = people with style when you =3D
=3D can offend = with substance --- Sam Brown =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
<= /div>
= --Apple-Mail=_A165F18C-2D7B-44E5-833D-5F1454B05A25-- --===============7881008891135390627== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7881008891135390627==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 13 20:32:29 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78919A0BA1 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 20:32:29 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nmtao201.oxsus-vadesecure.net (unknown [51.81.229.181]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A603FA07E5 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 20:32:18 -0700 (MST) O4QSc=; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=earthlink.net; h=from:reply-to:subject: date:to:cc:resent-date:resent-from:resent-to:resent-cc:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post: list-owner:list-archive; q=dns/txt; s=dk12062016; t=1639452738; x=1640057538; b=WjfpsPmXqPuYltmHxti4Eapn1TLzclNIw0ImofxqP3vqxlozTOkHcuU YKZdVtHFeZoETAbNMDGu/mbxySa+jXDLMJpOB8rvIKtuYCPsIkqx15ZEtGWZq+BMGVKabFB YJioOxtT+4fEZYtke3T7KAi66y0nW1jnEmyTjSVy1YTforazLxdjQs3VbuMqpsY16vyrELN 2GGSmMffqQH/JRwaDvB+Db4jBmF8h9NWzMv92PXAexI3cADJ432xH1MXVRcO8X9319nVg/B kO2vUNarmRYrsNzcluOMwlxiRP8e9EQcVJzNM72XvVd1mP3G6FKJI/zqzdccSaf9XnE/NIP m4w== Received: from [192.168.1.241] ([99.9.152.26]) by smtp.oxsus-vadesecure.net ESMTP oxsus2nmtao01p with ngmta id ae4459ec-16c081943388ad1c; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 03:32:17 +0000 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 19:32:17 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.4.0 Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <26DE75B1-C594-4724-A460-4F674E6257FA@gmail.com> From: Brian Kemp Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Furnace Filters Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net SWYgeW91IGhhdmUgMSIgZmlsdGVycywgZG8gYSBzZWFyY2ggZm9yICJhaXIgZmlsdGVyIHdoaXN0 bGUiLsKgIEl0IGlzIGEgCnNpbXBsZSB0d28gcGllY2UgcGxhc3RpYyBkZXZpY2UgeW91IHB1dCBp biB0aGUgZmlsdGVyIHRoYXQgd2hpc3RsZXMgd2hlbiAKdGhlIGZpbHRlciBuZWVkcyB0byBiZSBj aGFuZ2VkLsKgIEdvdCBtaW5lIGluIGEga2l0IGZyb20gdGhlIGxvY2FsIAp1dGlsaXR5IGNvbXBh bnkuCgpIZXJlIGlzIGEgZGVzY3JpcHRpb246Cmh0dHBzOi8veW91cmZpbHRlcmNvbm5lY3Rpb24u Y29tL2Jsb2dzL2hlbHAvd2hhdC1pcy1hLWZ1cm5hY2UtZmlsdGVyLXdoaXN0bGUKCkNhdXRpb24g LSBJZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBhIG5ld2VyIEhWQUMgc3lzdGVtIHN0aWxsIHVuZGVyIHdhcnJhbnR5LCB5 b3UgbWF5IApiZSByZXF1aXJlZCB0byB1c2UgdGhlIHNwZWNpZmllZCBmaWx0ZXIgZm9yIHRoZSB3 YXJyYW50eSB0byBiZSB2YWxpZC7CoCAKTXkgaW5zdGFsbGVyIG1hZGUgc3VyZSB0byBwb2ludCB0 aGlzIG91dC7CoCBNeSBMZW5ub3ggTUVSViAxNiBmaWx0ZXJzIHJ1biAKJDcwIGVhY2ggaW4gYSB0 d28gcGFjaywgYnV0IGxhc3QgOSBtb250aHMgd2l0aCB0d28gc2hlZGRpbmcgY2F0cy4KCkJyaWFu CgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwoKU2hvcC10 YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25hdGUuaHRt bApTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJjaGl2ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50 ZWFtLm5ldC9waXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9hcmNoaXZl CgpVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlv bnMvc2hvcC10YWxrL21oYXJjQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cgo= From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 13 20:45:38 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24AB5A0BF5 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 20:45:38 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from NAM11-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (unknown [40.92.20.40]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D975A0BD3 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 20:45:28 -0700 (MST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=kBltuloIGTKfM7n6fB9m6QYgzlK+JSJUr1H8jTpdxpMb/bqomw41Rrf9k1deH7yUhejixVM0k1WAOe/NPot4ILGUE82sg7F3RyZLLycpL4Ecg2divj4pGYZUKpApPgUKbA99WM9gszuFlM+YX9mxg/s3+VDeL4HGNKti+rmx4XqfnUhuLqUShyytg0XdRFqCB2b1prE5O3tIX7nZFJVxLdGjYUcQld2j+VV1gP9xLgjNiw1RSLrga6mL4vBt2X7ILGQl95+Q7RBVNwuycAPxpxgglqfAotxywmUlTVQsray8i/BxhvVDxGKc6PBOf9NnSVsh66dpSJ51R8HjR8CuXA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=7BgT093gBfcoQUe2rFM+AiyJTGsKZqUwIfBWE2fpRks=; b=LIcuj5EuW0UUO0s4VkiDhrF+qm5fchH7vPmXmTRZoc8KOOIW8RWX28z9FUYfL4LwbFDirFa9S4Xe62OZAowiafI69UMXFeUDTwTSvI0Gfsj80sG2jDiXXVJmbI1ks+EHFP1PpmvSSJ4ZCVjXFwB+py2KXTFP9iO8h4e10m9ZP2HCEFao5ZqDfStGS8Xmxd4fHJGL3T/XUMWHwhMmdoPBubsvhme9JwxlMFqLy9jSfJwUHpUMMjW3DRLwDC3eq5WkdxQ/OpCnZ2AQtVW5RJGMB+N4AMB6OKRdUPH0XzBbsvIQc7K+neDYL4xPQEInUvK3+DtvVIIXEF1GKK7Yf7A0ZQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=7BgT093gBfcoQUe2rFM+AiyJTGsKZqUwIfBWE2fpRks=; b=jTJEWRP+4c6hPg3CZD35nIniXKFxnmQ4c5nXT+GrJOF8SNr60++1Nw3APRgD1p1yei2rLbQ81y6ywaqTH5jCE8RH/DdnDctEPcrvg8+EipJm9DLe1Edo38qPEXDbqwTxH213r4nQAq9teYBb3Vqu4voZ+8Lwf2GKYCRmSuKt6ydr/c3AFAY6BznDSNiV2e9AfOkB852lgZ+O4X7SpwhrcXtTT+Kj6gONuET/H1IzTYf9xYQWkWHBidD/FqAjqTA/Yx3eYkWiJPI7PDPHupOwCf+mF/7GUt4mX7S5JRv3riibGqMAXesQfbqJGoxvwhkJwYeFMfJXOOF+zBH6zWqNeA== Received: from CO1PR06MB7994.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:303:e1::24) by CO6PR06MB7682.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:303:13c::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4778.11; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 03:45:27 +0000 Received: from CO1PR06MB7994.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::cd7a:caa4:cb0d:3181]) by CO1PR06MB7994.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::cd7a:caa4:cb0d:3181%5]) with mapi id 15.20.4778.018; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 03:45:27 +0000 From: Jack Brooks To: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] Furnace Filters Thread-Index: AQHX8G+OFFUFVDddl0aqVaPoYZw3I6wxBQMAgAAIKKCAACDSgIAAIQPQ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 03:44:23 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 03:42:55 +0000 References: <26DE75B1-C594-4724-A460-4F674E6257FA@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-tmn: [QxgF14c4CJwLZTWN9xu/J5BvP//npvnD] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: e0b0548b-7a42-4b62-de4d-08d9beb42aef x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CO6PR06MB7682:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?utf-8?B?OTJOMGg4SDNsNzN2djE1VDFDQjlIb2hOMEg5VGZPa0NTbkZMM1VNdDQ4d1RJ?= =?utf-8?B?T3pYeTZDemNtUWNMekU5NWFiZlkrQ3FBd1ozRUUray81Rmp4SWN3UERSMGlP?= =?utf-8?B?ZVlyaVZtd3haZlBKd3F0MVJZREhCNjBEbDg5cE5DYlZNOFNBMDV2a1IyZjU3?= =?utf-8?B?V2k5cGQ3NG9sbHpkRW1pNHRFSjBhMWFWSFlvMk9vTThiZHIvTDdGcTBUTUZi?= =?utf-8?B?Uk05V0l5dnFjdlVGb2J6a0luMmJNY1JHbk14b2JvZkV6bE5jbEFaaW5BZVE1?= =?utf-8?B?T2FGMHB5dVZ1SzBFVGpMSjI1K3FBaVNtQ3A3VnNVSEpwOW5ZaUIwMGNXbjRR?= =?utf-8?B?aTdCUkVoMGVHanh1OS85cVkvUlI0b09BaEpuWGZPa1dZMkVodEhwNzFYUkpj?= =?utf-8?B?VkhmOUtJeUk1bmF3NUMxa2V3WGMxRitHdE80cUU5VXBOUzIrZkh6ZkdqZXJ5?= =?utf-8?B?Z2tGMFNqNlBRRTg3Ni9UY2JBdWJ2MlA3Sm0xdXFFSVRpTG56dUEwMk9ubHdW?= =?utf-8?B?cWlQRWJObEhPL1pSVVk5S3ZZUjZqU2tjNWJtanA2T1NrMFd6WWlnQW1iWW1u?= =?utf-8?B?T0hnRlBVMlFXTDA3TWdtcllkcWpGamtLUkI0YWZEeDY5NXpFcjB3MzZxS2xr?= =?utf-8?B?R3U4MGc2T3pkVUc3RnovcUhqdzlzUXJJYnpBckhYZnBiam5uZDZzMlNZUHZm?= =?utf-8?B?czEyTVhIMWJtakcxUHdlTW5YanB4U1VlRU5JYlp3QXEyUzhPeFYwdXJ4a1JN?= =?utf-8?B?WFdFMHhSQ1MxTFBWOXBYcFFkVkFxTlJJRUZlRjNUNzcxNTVkMCtOS21MQWZZ?= =?utf-8?B?NVRiWFdPNlpWcjUwcnEzTXBoUk83SjNnTXkySXBYWldjLzZ2ZTJSUUpNOFBw?= =?utf-8?B?UnN0VDRZaFdLRjhiVDVkWjJ5ZVpZS0VjMTByajNhU2ljNDc3Qlp2ZTVTL2xG?= =?utf-8?B?ZlZlQVJKajEvVHk3TGxZSjhlc0hlSEtZcGo5cG9ncXFsc2lRN0NtSHk1ZE5t?= =?utf-8?B?dkVBalF4TkgxUlAxQUEzTlZxNWhMWThUVWNMZ3pOM3M3Qlo1dWNtQkpYMFFT?= =?utf-8?B?RWNKR0hoZGVTVUtXcnN4Um43dms1VzJjeHVWR0dhUVNQM0dQUzMybm5lUERl?= =?utf-8?B?YTUxa2FYR0VHTmhkeUNCbW5hNjBSczlwV2JmMXN5MG14SzRsUVZjM3FpSDdu?= =?utf-8?B?NWwrbGx4SUZLa1g2bTVFYzJnbitFMG55MUtxandZWkhxUTRBM1hpa3MxZ2Y4?= =?utf-8?B?QzI1aG1PR1IrWGh5dzFqeWdtb0hmSEhVK205TEZtY0N5Nm91Zz09?= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Furnace Filters Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2607052074761291253== Content-Language: en-US boundary="_000_CO1PR06MB7994B781BF633593D6B91FE5A8759CO1PR06MB7994namp_" --_000_CO1PR06MB7994B781BF633593D6B91FE5A8759CO1PR06MB7994namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SmltLA0KDQpJIHVzZWQgYSBNYWduZWhlbGljLCBzZWUgYmVsb3csIGJ1dCBJIGZvdW5kIGl0IG9u IGVCYXkgZm9yIGFib3V0ICQ0MC4gIEnigJl2ZSB1c2VkIHRoZW0gZm9yZXZlciBvbiBpbmR1c3Ry aWFsIGVxdWlwbWVudC4gIFRoZXkgYXJlIG1lY2hhbmljYWwsIGp1c3Qga2VlcCBvbiB3b3JraW5n IGFuZCBhcmUgb2xkIHNjaG9vbCBsaWtlIG1lISAgV2hhdCB5b3UgYXJlIGxvb2tpbmcgYXQgd2ls bCB3b3JrIGZvciB0aGlzIGFuZCBvdGhlciBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMgdG9vLg0KDQpKdXN0IG1ha2Ug c3VyZSB5b3UgZG9u4oCZdCBwdXQgdG9vIG11Y2ggc3VjdGlvbiBvbiB0aGUgZmFuLCBpLmUuLCAg ZG9u4oCZdCBleGNlZWQgdGhlIG5hbWVwbGF0ZSB2YWx1ZSBvbiB0aGUgZmFuLiBUaGlzIHNob3Vs ZCBub3QgYmUgYW4gaXNzdWUsIGFzIHlvdSBzaG91bGQgaGF2ZSBhIGZhaXIgYml0IG9mIGhlYWRy b29tIHRvIHBsYXkgd2l0aC4NCg0KQXMgZmFyIGFzIGRyaWxsaW5nIGhvbGVzLCBldGMuIGZvciB0 aGUgdHViZXMsIGp1c3QgZ2V0IHRoZSBlbmRzIG9mIHRoZSB0dWJlcyBzb21ld2hlcmUgbmVhciB0 aGUgY2VudGVyIG9mIHRoZSBkdWN0IGZvciB0aGlzIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uLg0KDQpCcmlhbuKAmXMg ZmlsdGVyIFdoaXN0bGUgaXMgYSBuaWNlIHJlYWxseSBsb3cgdGVjaCBzb2x1dGlvbiB0b28hICBU aGFua3MgQnJpYW4uIEnigJlkIG5ldmVyIGhlYXJkIG9mIHRoaXMuDQoNCkphY2sNCg0KaHR0cHM6 Ly93d3cuYW1hem9uLmNvbS9Ed3llci0yMDAwLTAwLU1hZ25laGVsaWMtRGlmZmVyZW50aWFsLVBy ZXNzdXJlL2RwL0IwME5JNEpVTVkvcmVmPXNyXzFfMz9jcmlkPTFYVUtNWDQ5MTFXUzYma2V5d29y ZHM9bWFnbmVoZWxpYytkaWZmZXJlbnRpYWwrcHJlc3N1cmUrZ2F1Z2UmcWlkPTE2Mzk0NTEyNjAm cz1pbmR1c3RyaWFsJnNwcmVmaXg9bWFnbmVoZWxpYyUyQ2luZHVzdHJpYWwlMkMyMTMmc3I9MS0z DQoNCkZyb206IFNob3AtdGFsayA8c2hvcC10YWxrLWJvdW5jZXNAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQ+IE9u IEJlaGFsZiBPZiBKaW0gU3RvbmUNClNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgRGVjZW1iZXIgMTMsIDIwMjEgNTox MSBQTQ0KVG86IFNob3AgVGFsayA8c2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Pg0KU3ViamVjdDog UmU6IFtTaG9wLXRhbGtdIEZ1cm5hY2UgRmlsdGVycw0KDQpUaGFua3MgYWdhaW4sIGd1eXMuICBJ IGhhZCBhIGZlZWxpbmcgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSB3b3VsZCBiZSBhdCBsZWFzdCBvbmUgZXhwZXJ0IG9u IHRoZSBsaXN0LCBidXQgaXQgbG9va3MgbGlrZSBJIGdvdCB0d28sIGF0IGxlYXN0IGluIHRoZSBm aXJzdCBjb3VwbGUgb2YgaG91cnMuIEFuZCwgdGhleSBib3RoIGFncmVlISAgOikNCg0KSmFjazog YSBkaWZmZXJlbnRpYWwgbWV0ZXIgaXMgYW4gaW50ZXJlc3RpbmcgaWRlYSwgZXNwZWNpYWxseSBn aXZlbiB0aGUgY29zdCBvZiB0aGUgYmlnZ2VyIGZpbHRlcnMuICBJdCBjZXJ0YWlubHkgZG9lc27i gJl0IG1ha2Ugc2Vuc2UgdG8gcmVwbGFjZSB0aGVtIG1vcmUgZnJlcXVlbnRseSB0aGFuIG5lY2Vz c2FyeS4gIEkgYW0gbm90IGEgbWVjaGFuaWNhbCBlbmdpbmVyZCwganVzdCBhIHBsYWluIG9sZCBv cmRpbmFyeSBuZXJkLiAgU3RpbGwsIEkgbGlrZSBwbGF5aW5nIGFyb3VuZCB3aXRoIG5ldyB0aGlu Z3MuICBXb3VsZCBzb21ldGhpbmcgbGlrZSB0aGlzIHdvcms/IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmFtYXpvbi5j b20vTWFub21ldGVyLURpZmZlcmVudGlhbC1CYWNrbGlnaHQtVmVudGlsYXRpb24tTWVhc3VyZW1l bnQvZHAvQjA3SzdIVDNYSi9yZWY9YXNjX2RmX0IwN0s3SFQzWEovP3RhZz1oeXByb2QtMjAmbGlu a0NvZGU9ZGYwJmh2YWRpZD0zMTIwOTk3NjY5ODkmaHZwb3M9Jmh2bmV0dz1nJmh2cmFuZD0yMDY5 MjYxNDI5MzM1MTQ3OCZodnBvbmU9Jmh2cHR3bz0maHZxbXQ9Jmh2ZGV2PWMmaHZkdmNtZGw9Jmh2 bG9jaW50PSZodmxvY3BoeT05MDA0NTkwJmh2dGFyZ2lkPXBsYS02MjI3Mjk0NzU1MTQmcHNjPTEu IEnigJltIHRoaW5raW5nIG9mIGRyaWxsaW5nIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIGhvbGVzIGluIHRoZSBmaWx0 ZXIgYm94IGFuZCBzZW1pLXBlcm1hbmVudGx5IG1vdW50aW5nIGl0Lg0KDQpKaW0NCg0KT24gRGVj IDEzLCAyMDIxLCBhdCA3OjIxIFBNLCBKYWNrIEJyb29rcyA8SklCcm9va3NAbGl2ZS5jb208bWFp bHRvOkpJQnJvb2tzQGxpdmUuY29tPj4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCkJpbmdvISAgSmltIGhpdCB0aGUgbmFp bCBvbiB0aGUgaGVhZC4NCg0KVGhlIDQgaW5jaCBmaWx0ZXIgaGFzIGEgbG93ZXIgcHJlc3N1cmUg ZHJvcCBiZWNhdXNlIG9mIG92ZXJhbGwgZ3JlYXRlciBmaWx0cmF0aW9uIGFyZWEgZHVlIHRvIGFs bCBvZiB0aGUgZGVlcCBwbGVhdHMuIEl0IGFsc28gaGFzIGEgbG93ZXIgZnJlcXVlbmN5IG9mIGZp bHRlciBjaGFuZ2Ugb3V0IGZvciB0aGUgc2FtZSByZWFzb24uICBVc2luZyB0d28gb25lIGluY2gg ZmlsdGVycyB0b2dldGhlciB3aWxsIGltcGFjdCB5b3VyIGZsb3cuIEl0IG1heSBub3QgYWZmZWN0 IHlvdXIgcGVyZm9ybWFuY2Ugbm90aWNlYWJseSwgYnV0IGl0IHdpbGwgY2hhbmdlIHRoZSBzeXN0 ZW0gZmxvdywgZHJpdmUgdXAgZmFuIGVuZXJneSBjb3N0cywgZXRjLg0KDQpodHRwczovL25vcmRp Y3B1cmUuY29tLyBzZWVtcyB0byBoYXZlIGEgbG90IG9mIHNpemVzIGluIHN0b2NrIGFuZCB0aGV5 IGFyZSBub3QgdG9vIGJhZGx5IHByaWNlZCBlaXRoZXIgb24gdGhlaXIgd2Vic2l0ZSBvciBBbWF6 b24uICBJ4oCZdmUgdXNlZCB0aGVtIGZvciBhIHdoaWxlIGFuZCBhbSBoYXBweSB3aXRoIHRoZW0u IFRoZXkgYXJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBpbiBhIHdpZGUgcmFuZ2Ugb2YgTUVSViByYXRpbmdzIHRvby4N Cg0KSSBoYXZlIGEgZGlmZmVyZW50aWFsIHByZXNzdXJlIG1ldGVyIGFjcm9zcyBteSBmaWx0ZXIu ICBJdCByZWdpc3RlcnMgMC0wLjI1IGluY2hlcyBvZiBIMk8uICBJIGxldCB0aGF0IGd1aWRlIG15 IGNoYW5nZW91dCBmcmVxdWVuY3ksIHdoaWNoIG9mdGVuIGlzIGFyb3VuZCBhIHllYXIgYmVmb3Jl IHRoZSBwcmVzc3VyZSBkcm9wIGluZGljYXRlIHRvIG1lIHRoYXQgaXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGNoYW5n ZWQuIE9rLCB5ZXMsIEkgYW0gYSBNZWNoYW5pY2FsIEVuZ2luZXJkLg0KDQpKYWNrDQoNCkZyb206 IFNob3AtdGFsayA8c2hvcC10YWxrLWJvdW5jZXNAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQ8bWFpbHRvOnNob3At dGFsay1ib3VuY2VzQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Pj4gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEpvaG4gSW5uaXMNClNl bnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgRGVjZW1iZXIgMTMsIDIwMjEgMjo0NCBQTQ0KVG86IEppbSBTdG9uZSA8MTc4 OWFscGluZUBnbWFpbC5jb208bWFpbHRvOjE3ODlhbHBpbmVAZ21haWwuY29tPj4NCkNjOiBTaG9w IFRhbGsgPHNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldDxtYWlsdG86c2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRl YW0ubmV0Pj4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbU2hvcC10YWxrXSBGdXJuYWNlIEZpbHRlcnMNCg0KVGhl IG9ubHkgcmVhbCBpc3N1ZSBpcyB0aGF0IHlvdSB3aWxsIG5vdCBnZXQgYXMgbXVjaCBhaXJmbG93 IHRocm91Z2ggYSAxIiBmaWx0ZXIgb2YgYSBnaXZlbiBlZmZlY3RpdmVuZXNzLiAgTW9zdCBvZiB0 aGUgdGltZSB0aGF0J3Mgbm90IGEgYmlnIGRlYWwuICBJbiBvdXIgcHJldmlvdXMgaG91c2Ugd2Ug ZGlkIGhhdmUgYW4gaXNzdWUgd2l0aCB0aGUgQUMgZnJlZXppbmcgdXAgd2hlbiBpdCB3YXMgd29y a2luZyByZWFsbHkgaGFyZC4gIEluIHRoYXQgY2FzZSB0aGUgc29sdXRpb24gd2FzIGEgbG93ZXIg ZWZmZWN0aXZlbmVzcyBmaWx0ZXIgYmVjYXVzZSB0aGUgYm94IGNvdWxkIG5vdCBhY2NvbW1vZGF0 ZSBhIHRoaWNrZXIgZmlsdGVyLiAgSWYgeW91IGFyZSBoYXBweSB3aXRoIHRoZSBwZXJmb3JtYW5j ZSBvZiB0aGUgMSIgZmlsdGVyIGFuZCBoYXZlIG5vdCBoYWQgYW55IGlzc3VlcywgaSdkIHNheSBz dGljayB3aXRoIGl0LiAgSSBkbyBOT1QgcmVjb21tZW5kIHN0YWNraW5nIHR3byBvbmUgaW5jaCBm aWx0ZXJzLg0KDQpPbiBNb24sIERlYyAxMywgMjAyMSBhdCA0OjIwIFBNIEppbSBTdG9uZSA8MTc4 OWFscGluZUBnbWFpbC5jb208bWFpbHRvOjE3ODlhbHBpbmVAZ21haWwuY29tPj4gd3JvdGU6DQpU aGUgY29tcGFueSB0aGF0IGluc3RhbGxlZCBteSBIVkFDIHN5c3RlbSBhIGZldyB5ZWFycyBhZ28g dXNlZCBhIGZpbHRlciBib3ggb24gdGhlIHJldHVybiBsaW5lIHRoYXQgdGFrZXMgMjDigJ0geCAy NSIgeCA04oCdIGZpbHRlcnMsIHdoaWNoIGlzIGFuIHVudXN1YWwsIGFuZCB0aHVzIGV4cGVuc2l2 ZSwgc2l6ZSAtIGZpbHRlcnMgZ2VuZXJhbGx5IHJ1biBhYm91dCAkMjUgZWFjaCAtIHRoYXQgaXMg bm90IHJlYWRpbHkgYXZhaWxhYmxlIG90aGVyIHRoYW4gb25saW5lLiAgRHVyaW5nIGNvbnN0cnVj dGlvbiwgbXkgZ2VuZXJhbCBjb250cmFjdG9yIGp1c3QgaGFkIGEgY2hlYXAgMjDigJ0geCAyNSIg eCAx4oCdIGZpbHRlciBpbiB0aGVyZSB0aGF0IHNlZW1lZCB0byB3b3JrIGp1c3QgZmluZS4gIEkg Y2hlY2tlZCB0aGUgaW5zdGFsbGF0aW9uIGluc3RydWN0aW9ucyBmb3IgdGhlIGZ1cm5hY2UgYW5k IHRoZXJlIGFyZSBubyBzcGVjaWZpY2F0aW9ucyBmb3IgdGhlIGZpbHRlcnMsIG90aGVyIHRoYW4g dGhhdCB0aGV5IG5lZWQgdG8gYmUgY2hhbmdlZCByZWd1bGFybHksIHdoaWNoIGlzIGdldHRpbmcg cHJldHR5IGV4cGVuc2l2ZS4gIElzIHRoZXJlIGFueSByZWFzb24gSSBjb3VsZG7igJl0IGp1c3Qg dXNlIDHigJ0gZmlsdGVycywgd2hpY2ggYXJlIGxlc3MgdGhhbiBoYWxmIHRoZSBwcmljZT8gIE1h eWJlIGV2ZW4gcHV0IHR3byBvZiB0aGVtIGluIHRoZSBib3gsIGEgZ29vZCBvbmUgZmlyc3QgdG8g Y2F0Y2ggbW9zdCBvZiB0aGUgZHVzdCBhbmQgYSBjaGVhcCBvbmUgbGlrZSB0aGUgY29udHJhY3Rv ciB1c2VkIGFzIGEgc2Vjb25kYXJ5IG9uZS4gIEl0IGlzIGEgc251ZyBmaXQgYW5kIEkgZG9u4oCZ dCB0aGluayB0aGVyZSBpcyBhbnkgZGFuZ2VyIG9mIHRoZW0gdGlwcGluZywgYnV0IHR3byB3b3Vs ZCBtYWtlIGl0IGltcG9zc2libGUuDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCkppbQ0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCg0KU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0 PG1haWx0bzpTaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQ+DQpEb25hdGU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVh bS5uZXQvZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwNClN1Z2dlc3RlZCBhbm51YWwgZG9uYXRpb24gICQxMi45Ng0KQXJj aGl2ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9waXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRv eC50ZWFtLm5ldC9hcmNoaXZlDQoNClVuc3Vic2NyaWJlL01hbmFnZTogaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRl YW0ubmV0L21haWxtYW4vb3B0aW9ucy9zaG9wLXRhbGsvamRpbm5pc0BnbWFpbC5jb20NCg0KDQot LQ0KPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQo9IE5ldmVyIG9mZmVuZCBwZW9w bGUgd2l0aCBzdHlsZSB3aGVuIHlvdSAgID0NCj0gY2FuIG9mZmVuZCB3aXRoIHN1YnN0YW5jZSAt LS0gU2FtIEJyb3duICA9DQo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCg0K --_000_CO1PR06MB7994B781BF633593D6B91FE5A8759CO1PR06MB7994namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWwgeG1sbnM6dj0idXJuOnNjaGVtYXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTp2bWwiIHhtbG5zOm89InVy bjpzY2hlbWFzLW1pY3Jvc29mdC1jb206b2ZmaWNlOm9mZmljZSIgeG1sbnM6dz0idXJuOnNjaGVt YXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTpvZmZpY2U6d29yZCIgeG1sbnM6bT0iaHR0cDovL3NjaGVtYXMubWlj cm9zb2Z0LmNvbS9vZmZpY2UvMjAwNC8xMi9vbW1sIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcv VFIvUkVDLWh0bWw0MCI+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIg Y29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04Ij4NCjxtZXRhIG5hbWU9IkdlbmVyYXRv ciIgY29udGVudD0iTWljcm9zb2Z0IFdvcmQgMTUgKGZpbHRlcmVkIG1lZGl1bSkiPg0KPHN0eWxl PjwhLS0NCi8qIEZvbnQgRGVmaW5pdGlvbnMgKi8NCkBmb250LWZhY2UNCgl7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6 IkNhbWJyaWEgTWF0aCI7DQoJcGFub3NlLTE6MiA0IDUgMyA1IDQgNiAzIDIgNDt9DQpAZm9udC1m YWNlDQoJe2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OkNhbGlicmk7DQoJcGFub3NlLTE6MiAxNSA1IDIgMiAyIDQgMyAy IDQ7fQ0KLyogU3R5bGUgRGVmaW5pdGlvbnMgKi8NCnAuTXNvTm9ybWFsLCBsaS5Nc29Ob3JtYWws IGRpdi5Nc29Ob3JtYWwNCgl7bWFyZ2luOjBpbjsNCglmb250LXNpemU6MTEuMHB0Ow0KCWZvbnQt ZmFtaWx5OiJDYWxpYnJpIixzYW5zLXNlcmlmO30NCmE6bGluaywgc3Bhbi5Nc29IeXBlcmxpbmsN Cgl7bXNvLXN0eWxlLXByaW9yaXR5Ojk5Ow0KCWNvbG9yOmJsdWU7DQoJdGV4dC1kZWNvcmF0aW9u OnVuZGVybGluZTt9DQpzcGFuLmFwcGxlLWNvbnZlcnRlZC1zcGFjZQ0KCXttc28tc3R5bGUtbmFt ZTphcHBsZS1jb252ZXJ0ZWQtc3BhY2U7fQ0Kc3Bhbi5FbWFpbFN0eWxlMTkNCgl7bXNvLXN0eWxl LXR5cGU6cGVyc29uYWwtcmVwbHk7DQoJZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6IlRpbWVzIE5ldyBSb21hbiIsc2Vy aWY7DQoJZm9udC12YXJpYW50Om5vcm1hbCAhaW1wb3J0YW50Ow0KCWNvbG9yOiMwMDIwNjA7DQoJ dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTsNCgl0ZXh0LWRlY29yYXRpb246bm9uZSBub25lOw0KCXZlcnRp Y2FsLWFsaWduOmJhc2VsaW5lO30NCi5Nc29DaHBEZWZhdWx0DQoJe21zby1zdHlsZS10eXBlOmV4 cG9ydC1vbmx5Ow0KCWZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMC4wcHQ7fQ0KQHBhZ2UgV29yZFNlY3Rpb24xDQoJe3Np emU6OC41aW4gMTEuMGluOw0KCW1hcmdpbjoxLjBpbiAxLjBpbiAxLjBpbiAxLjBpbjt9DQpkaXYu V29yZFNlY3Rpb24xDQoJe3BhZ2U6V29yZFNlY3Rpb24xO30NCi0tPjwvc3R5bGU+PCEtLVtpZiBn dGUgbXNvIDldPjx4bWw+DQo8bzpzaGFwZWRlZmF1bHRzIHY6ZXh0PSJlZGl0IiBzcGlkbWF4PSIx MDI2IiAvPg0KPC94bWw+PCFbZW5kaWZdLS0+PCEtLVtpZiBndGUgbXNvIDldPjx4bWw+DQo8bzpz aGFwZWxheW91dCB2OmV4dD0iZWRpdCI+DQo8bzppZG1hcCB2OmV4dD0iZWRpdCIgZGF0YT0iMSIg Lz4NCjwvbzpzaGFwZWxheW91dD48L3htbD48IVtlbmRpZl0tLT4NCjwvaGVhZD4NCjxib2R5IGxh bmc9IkVOLVVTIiBsaW5rPSJibHVlIiB2bGluaz0icHVycGxlIiBzdHlsZT0id29yZC13cmFwOmJy ZWFrLXdvcmQiPg0KPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iV29yZFNlY3Rpb24xIj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3Jt YWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiZxdW90O1RpbWVz IE5ldyBSb21hbiZxdW90OyxzZXJpZjtjb2xvcjojMDAyMDYwIj5KaW0sPG86cD48L286cD48L3Nw YW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMi4w cHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7VGltZXMgTmV3IFJvbWFuJnF1b3Q7LHNlcmlmO2NvbG9yOiMw MDIwNjAiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwi PjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiZxdW90O1RpbWVzIE5l dyBSb21hbiZxdW90OyxzZXJpZjtjb2xvcjojMDAyMDYwIj5JIHVzZWQgYSBNYWduZWhlbGljLCBz ZWUgYmVsb3csIGJ1dCBJIGZvdW5kIGl0IG9uIGVCYXkgZm9yIGFib3V0ICQ0MC4mbmJzcDsgSeKA mXZlIHVzZWQgdGhlbSBmb3JldmVyIG9uIGluZHVzdHJpYWwgZXF1aXBtZW50LiZuYnNwOyBUaGV5 IGFyZSBtZWNoYW5pY2FsLCBqdXN0IGtlZXAgb24gd29ya2luZw0KIGFuZCBhcmUgb2xkIHNjaG9v bCBsaWtlIG1lISZuYnNwOyBXaGF0IHlvdSBhcmUgbG9va2luZyBhdCB3aWxsIHdvcmsgZm9yIHRo aXMgYW5kIG90aGVyIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucyB0b28uDQo8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8 cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEyLjBwdDtmb250LWZh bWlseTomcXVvdDtUaW1lcyBOZXcgUm9tYW4mcXVvdDssc2VyaWY7Y29sb3I6IzAwMjA2MCI+PG86 cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5 bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMi4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7VGltZXMgTmV3IFJvbWFuJnF1 b3Q7LHNlcmlmO2NvbG9yOiMwMDIwNjAiPkp1c3QgbWFrZSBzdXJlIHlvdSBkb27igJl0IHB1dCB0 b28gbXVjaCBzdWN0aW9uIG9uIHRoZSBmYW4sIGkuZS4sICZuYnNwO2RvbuKAmXQgZXhjZWVkIHRo ZSBuYW1lcGxhdGUgdmFsdWUgb24gdGhlIGZhbi4gVGhpcyBzaG91bGQgbm90IGJlIGFuIGlzc3Vl LCBhcyB5b3Ugc2hvdWxkIGhhdmUNCiBhIGZhaXIgYml0IG9mIGhlYWRyb29tIHRvIHBsYXkgd2l0 aC4gPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5 bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMi4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7VGltZXMgTmV3IFJvbWFuJnF1 b3Q7LHNlcmlmO2NvbG9yOiMwMDIwNjAiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxw IGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFt aWx5OiZxdW90O1RpbWVzIE5ldyBSb21hbiZxdW90OyxzZXJpZjtjb2xvcjojMDAyMDYwIj5BcyBm YXIgYXMgZHJpbGxpbmcgaG9sZXMsIGV0Yy4gZm9yIHRoZSB0dWJlcywganVzdCBnZXQgdGhlIGVu ZHMgb2YgdGhlIHR1YmVzIHNvbWV3aGVyZSBuZWFyIHRoZSBjZW50ZXIgb2YgdGhlIGR1Y3QgZm9y IHRoaXMgYXBwbGljYXRpb24uDQo8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNv Tm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEyLjBwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtU aW1lcyBOZXcgUm9tYW4mcXVvdDssc2VyaWY7Y29sb3I6IzAwMjA2MCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286 cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6 ZToxMi4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7VGltZXMgTmV3IFJvbWFuJnF1b3Q7LHNlcmlmO2Nv bG9yOiMwMDIwNjAiPkJyaWFu4oCZcyBmaWx0ZXIgV2hpc3RsZSBpcyBhIG5pY2UgcmVhbGx5IGxv dyB0ZWNoIHNvbHV0aW9uIHRvbyEmbmJzcDsgVGhhbmtzIEJyaWFuLiBJ4oCZZCBuZXZlciBoZWFy ZCBvZiB0aGlzLg0KPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+ PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMi4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7VGltZXMgTmV3 IFJvbWFuJnF1b3Q7LHNlcmlmO2NvbG9yOiMwMDIwNjAiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFu PjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0 O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiZxdW90O1RpbWVzIE5ldyBSb21hbiZxdW90OyxzZXJpZjtjb2xvcjojMDAy MDYwIj5KYWNrPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYW1hem9uLmNvbS9Ed3llci0yMDAwLTAw LU1hZ25laGVsaWMtRGlmZmVyZW50aWFsLVByZXNzdXJlL2RwL0IwME5JNEpVTVkvcmVmPXNyXzFf Mz9jcmlkPTFYVUtNWDQ5MTFXUzYmYW1wO2tleXdvcmRzPW1hZ25laGVsaWMrZGlmZmVyZW50aWFs K3ByZXNzdXJlK2dhdWdlJmFtcDtxaWQ9MTYzOTQ1MTI2MCZhbXA7cz1pbmR1c3RyaWFsJmFtcDtz cHJlZml4PW1hZ25laGVsaWMlMkNpbmR1c3RyaWFsJTJDMjEzJmFtcDtzcj0xLTM8bzpwPjwvbzpw Pjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXpl OjEyLjBwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtUaW1lcyBOZXcgUm9tYW4mcXVvdDssc2VyaWY7Y29s b3I6IzAwMjA2MCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPGRpdj4NCjxkaXYgc3R5 bGU9ImJvcmRlcjpub25lO2JvcmRlci10b3A6c29saWQgI0UxRTFFMSAxLjBwdDtwYWRkaW5nOjMu MHB0IDBpbiAwaW4gMGluIj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxiPkZyb206PC9iPiBTaG9w LXRhbGsgJmx0O3Nob3AtdGFsay1ib3VuY2VzQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Jmd0OyA8Yj4NCk9uIEJl aGFsZiBPZiA8L2I+SmltIFN0b25lPGJyPg0KPGI+U2VudDo8L2I+IE1vbmRheSwgRGVjZW1iZXIg MTMsIDIwMjEgNToxMSBQTTxicj4NCjxiPlRvOjwvYj4gU2hvcCBUYWxrICZsdDtzaG9wLXRhbGtA YXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQmZ3Q7PGJyPg0KPGI+U3ViamVjdDo8L2I+IFJlOiBbU2hvcC10YWxrXSBG dXJuYWNlIEZpbHRlcnM8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0i TXNvTm9ybWFsIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPlRo YW5rcyBhZ2FpbiwgZ3V5cy4gJm5ic3A7SSBoYWQgYSBmZWVsaW5nIHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgd291bGQg YmUgYXQgbGVhc3Qgb25lIGV4cGVydCBvbiB0aGUgbGlzdCwgYnV0IGl0IGxvb2tzIGxpa2UgSSBn b3QgdHdvLCBhdCBsZWFzdCBpbiB0aGUgZmlyc3QgY291cGxlIG9mIGhvdXJzLiBBbmQsIHRoZXkg Ym90aCBhZ3JlZSEgJm5ic3A7Oik8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNv Tm9ybWFsIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJN c29Ob3JtYWwiPkphY2s6IGEgZGlmZmVyZW50aWFsIG1ldGVyIGlzIGFuIGludGVyZXN0aW5nIGlk ZWEsIGVzcGVjaWFsbHkgZ2l2ZW4gdGhlIGNvc3Qgb2YgdGhlIGJpZ2dlciBmaWx0ZXJzLiAmbmJz cDtJdCBjZXJ0YWlubHkgZG9lc27igJl0IG1ha2Ugc2Vuc2UgdG8gcmVwbGFjZSB0aGVtIG1vcmUg ZnJlcXVlbnRseSB0aGFuIG5lY2Vzc2FyeS4gJm5ic3A7SSBhbSBub3QgYSBtZWNoYW5pY2FsIGVu Z2luZXJkLCBqdXN0IGEgcGxhaW4gb2xkIG9yZGluYXJ5DQogbmVyZC4gJm5ic3A7U3RpbGwsIEkg bGlrZSBwbGF5aW5nIGFyb3VuZCB3aXRoIG5ldyB0aGluZ3MuICZuYnNwO1dvdWxkIHNvbWV0aGlu ZyBsaWtlIHRoaXMgd29yaz8mbmJzcDs8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwczovL3d3dy5hbWF6b24uY29tL01h bm9tZXRlci1EaWZmZXJlbnRpYWwtQmFja2xpZ2h0LVZlbnRpbGF0aW9uLU1lYXN1cmVtZW50L2Rw L0IwN0s3SFQzWEovcmVmPWFzY19kZl9CMDdLN0hUM1hKLz90YWc9aHlwcm9kLTIwJmFtcDtsaW5r Q29kZT1kZjAmYW1wO2h2YWRpZD0zMTIwOTk3NjY5ODkmYW1wO2h2cG9zPSZhbXA7aHZuZXR3PWcm YW1wO2h2cmFuZD0yMDY5MjYxNDI5MzM1MTQ3OCZhbXA7aHZwb25lPSZhbXA7aHZwdHdvPSZhbXA7 aHZxbXQ9JmFtcDtodmRldj1jJmFtcDtodmR2Y21kbD0mYW1wO2h2bG9jaW50PSZhbXA7aHZsb2Nw aHk9OTAwNDU5MCZhbXA7aHZ0YXJnaWQ9cGxhLTYyMjcyOTQ3NTUxNCZhbXA7cHNjPTEiPmh0dHBz Oi8vd3d3LmFtYXpvbi5jb20vTWFub21ldGVyLURpZmZlcmVudGlhbC1CYWNrbGlnaHQtVmVudGls YXRpb24tTWVhc3VyZW1lbnQvZHAvQjA3SzdIVDNYSi9yZWY9YXNjX2RmX0IwN0s3SFQzWEovP3Rh Zz1oeXByb2QtMjAmYW1wO2xpbmtDb2RlPWRmMCZhbXA7aHZhZGlkPTMxMjA5OTc2Njk4OSZhbXA7 aHZwb3M9JmFtcDtodm5ldHc9ZyZhbXA7aHZyYW5kPTIwNjkyNjE0MjkzMzUxNDc4JmFtcDtodnBv bmU9JmFtcDtodnB0d289JmFtcDtodnFtdD0mYW1wO2h2ZGV2PWMmYW1wO2h2ZHZjbWRsPSZhbXA7 aHZsb2NpbnQ9JmFtcDtodmxvY3BoeT05MDA0NTkwJmFtcDtodnRhcmdpZD1wbGEtNjIyNzI5NDc1 NTE0JmFtcDtwc2M9MTwvYT4uDQogSeKAmW0gdGhpbmtpbmcgb2YgZHJpbGxpbmcgYSBjb3VwbGUg b2YgaG9sZXMgaW4gdGhlIGZpbHRlciBib3ggYW5kIHNlbWktcGVybWFuZW50bHkgbW91bnRpbmcg aXQuJm5ic3A7PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9y bWFsIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29O b3JtYWwiPkppbTxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiIHN0 eWxlPSJtYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOjEyLjBwdCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3A+DQo8YmxvY2tx dW90ZSBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luLXRvcDo1LjBwdDttYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOjUuMHB0Ij4NCjxkaXY+ DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj5PbiBEZWMgMTMsIDIwMjEsIGF0IDc6MjEgUE0sIEphY2sg QnJvb2tzICZsdDs8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86SklCcm9va3NAbGl2ZS5jb20iPkpJQnJvb2tzQGxp dmUuY29tPC9hPiZndDsgd3JvdGU6PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJN c29Ob3JtYWwiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPGRpdj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0i TXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEyLjBwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTomcXVv dDtUaW1lcyBOZXcgUm9tYW4mcXVvdDssc2VyaWY7Y29sb3I6IzAwMjA2MCI+QmluZ28hJm5ic3A7 IEppbSBoaXQgdGhlIG5haWwgb24gdGhlIGhlYWQuJm5ic3A7PC9zcGFuPjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9w Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQt c2l6ZToxMi4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7VGltZXMgTmV3IFJvbWFuJnF1b3Q7LHNlcmlm O2NvbG9yOiMwMDIwNjAiPiZuYnNwOzwvc3Bhbj48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRp dj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0O2Zv bnQtZmFtaWx5OiZxdW90O1RpbWVzIE5ldyBSb21hbiZxdW90OyxzZXJpZjtjb2xvcjojMDAyMDYw Ij5UaGUgNCBpbmNoIGZpbHRlciBoYXMgYSBsb3dlciBwcmVzc3VyZSBkcm9wIGJlY2F1c2Ugb2Yg b3ZlcmFsbCBncmVhdGVyIGZpbHRyYXRpb24gYXJlYSBkdWUgdG8gYWxsIG9mIHRoZSBkZWVwIHBs ZWF0cy4gSXQgYWxzbyBoYXMgYSBsb3dlciBmcmVxdWVuY3kgb2YgZmlsdGVyDQogY2hhbmdlIG91 dCBmb3IgdGhlIHNhbWUgcmVhc29uLiAmbmJzcDtVc2luZyB0d28gb25lIGluY2ggZmlsdGVycyB0 b2dldGhlciB3aWxsIGltcGFjdCB5b3VyIGZsb3cuIEl0IG1heSBub3QgYWZmZWN0IHlvdXIgcGVy Zm9ybWFuY2Ugbm90aWNlYWJseSwgYnV0IGl0IHdpbGwgY2hhbmdlIHRoZSBzeXN0ZW0gZmxvdywg ZHJpdmUgdXAgZmFuIGVuZXJneSBjb3N0cywgZXRjLiZuYnNwOzxzcGFuIGNsYXNzPSJhcHBsZS1j b252ZXJ0ZWQtc3BhY2UiPiZuYnNwOzwvc3Bhbj48YnI+DQo8YnI+DQo8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwczov L25vcmRpY3B1cmUuY29tLyI+aHR0cHM6Ly9ub3JkaWNwdXJlLmNvbS88L2E+PHNwYW4gY2xhc3M9 ImFwcGxlLWNvbnZlcnRlZC1zcGFjZSI+Jm5ic3A7PC9zcGFuPnNlZW1zIHRvIGhhdmUgYSBsb3Qg b2Ygc2l6ZXMgaW4gc3RvY2sgYW5kIHRoZXkgYXJlIG5vdCB0b28gYmFkbHkgcHJpY2VkIGVpdGhl ciBvbiB0aGVpciB3ZWJzaXRlIG9yIEFtYXpvbi4mbmJzcDsgSeKAmXZlIHVzZWQgdGhlbSBmb3Ig YSB3aGlsZSBhbmQgYW0gaGFwcHkgd2l0aA0KIHRoZW0uIFRoZXkgYXJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBpbiBh IHdpZGUgcmFuZ2Ugb2YgTUVSViByYXRpbmdzIHRvby48L3NwYW4+PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8 L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXpl OjEyLjBwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtUaW1lcyBOZXcgUm9tYW4mcXVvdDssc2VyaWY7Y29s b3I6IzAwMjA2MCI+Jm5ic3A7PC9zcGFuPjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0K PHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMi4wcHQ7Zm9udC1m YW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7VGltZXMgTmV3IFJvbWFuJnF1b3Q7LHNlcmlmO2NvbG9yOiMwMDIwNjAiPkkg aGF2ZSBhIGRpZmZlcmVudGlhbCBwcmVzc3VyZSBtZXRlciBhY3Jvc3MgbXkgZmlsdGVyLiZuYnNw OyBJdCByZWdpc3RlcnMgMC0wLjI1IGluY2hlcyBvZiBIPHN1Yj4yPC9zdWI+Ty4mbmJzcDsgSSBs ZXQgdGhhdCBndWlkZSBteSBjaGFuZ2VvdXQgZnJlcXVlbmN5LCB3aGljaCBvZnRlbg0KIGlzIGFy b3VuZCBhIHllYXIgYmVmb3JlIHRoZSBwcmVzc3VyZSBkcm9wIGluZGljYXRlIHRvIG1lIHRoYXQg aXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGNoYW5nZWQuIE9rLCB5ZXMsIEkgYW0gYSBNZWNoYW5pY2FsIEVuZ2luZXJk Ljwvc3Bhbj48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3Jt YWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTIuMHB0O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiZxdW90O1RpbWVz IE5ldyBSb21hbiZxdW90OyxzZXJpZjtjb2xvcjojMDAyMDYwIj48YnI+DQpKYWNrPC9zcGFuPjxv OnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4g c3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMi4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7VGltZXMgTmV3IFJvbWFu JnF1b3Q7LHNlcmlmO2NvbG9yOiMwMDIwNjAiPiZuYnNwOzwvc3Bhbj48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4N CjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iYm9yZGVyOm5vbmU7Ym9yZGVyLXRvcDpzb2xpZCAjRTFFMUUx IDEuMHB0O3BhZGRpbmc6My4wcHQgMGluIDBpbiAwaW4iPg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29O b3JtYWwiPjxiPkZyb206PC9iPjxzcGFuIGNsYXNzPSJhcHBsZS1jb252ZXJ0ZWQtc3BhY2UiPiZu YnNwOzwvc3Bhbj5TaG9wLXRhbGsgJmx0OzxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpzaG9wLXRhbGstYm91bmNl c0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldCI+c2hvcC10YWxrLWJvdW5jZXNAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQ8L2E+Jmd0 OzxzcGFuIGNsYXNzPSJhcHBsZS1jb252ZXJ0ZWQtc3BhY2UiPiZuYnNwOzwvc3Bhbj48Yj5PbiBC ZWhhbGYgT2Y8c3BhbiBjbGFzcz0iYXBwbGUtY29udmVydGVkLXNwYWNlIj4mbmJzcDs8L3NwYW4+ PC9iPkpvaG4NCiBJbm5pczxicj4NCjxiPlNlbnQ6PC9iPjxzcGFuIGNsYXNzPSJhcHBsZS1jb252 ZXJ0ZWQtc3BhY2UiPiZuYnNwOzwvc3Bhbj5Nb25kYXksIERlY2VtYmVyIDEzLCAyMDIxIDI6NDQg UE08YnI+DQo8Yj5Ubzo8L2I+PHNwYW4gY2xhc3M9ImFwcGxlLWNvbnZlcnRlZC1zcGFjZSI+Jm5i c3A7PC9zcGFuPkppbSBTdG9uZSAmbHQ7PGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOjE3ODlhbHBpbmVAZ21haWwu Y29tIj4xNzg5YWxwaW5lQGdtYWlsLmNvbTwvYT4mZ3Q7PGJyPg0KPGI+Q2M6PC9iPjxzcGFuIGNs YXNzPSJhcHBsZS1jb252ZXJ0ZWQtc3BhY2UiPiZuYnNwOzwvc3Bhbj5TaG9wIFRhbGsgJmx0Ozxh IGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpzaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQiPnNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50 ZWFtLm5ldDwvYT4mZ3Q7PGJyPg0KPGI+U3ViamVjdDo8L2I+PHNwYW4gY2xhc3M9ImFwcGxlLWNv bnZlcnRlZC1zcGFjZSI+Jm5ic3A7PC9zcGFuPlJlOiBbU2hvcC10YWxrXSBGdXJuYWNlIEZpbHRl cnM8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05v cm1hbCI+Jm5ic3A7PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xh c3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+VGhlIG9ubHkgcmVhbCBpc3N1ZSBpcyB0aGF0IHlvdSB3aWxsIG5vdCBn ZXQgYXMgbXVjaCBhaXJmbG93IHRocm91Z2ggYSAxJnF1b3Q7IGZpbHRlciBvZiBhIGdpdmVuIGVm ZmVjdGl2ZW5lc3MuJm5ic3A7IE1vc3Qgb2YgdGhlIHRpbWUgdGhhdCdzIG5vdCBhIGJpZyBkZWFs LiZuYnNwOyBJbiBvdXIgcHJldmlvdXMgaG91c2Ugd2UgZGlkIGhhdmUgYW4gaXNzdWUgd2l0aCB0 aGUgQUMgZnJlZXppbmcgdXAgd2hlbiBpdCB3YXMgd29ya2luZw0KIHJlYWxseSBoYXJkLiZuYnNw OyBJbiB0aGF0IGNhc2UgdGhlIHNvbHV0aW9uIHdhcyBhIGxvd2VyIGVmZmVjdGl2ZW5lc3MgZmls dGVyIGJlY2F1c2UgdGhlIGJveCBjb3VsZCBub3QgYWNjb21tb2RhdGUgYSB0aGlja2VyIGZpbHRl ci4mbmJzcDsgSWYgeW91IGFyZSBoYXBweSB3aXRoIHRoZSBwZXJmb3JtYW5jZSBvZiB0aGUgMSZx dW90OyBmaWx0ZXIgYW5kIGhhdmUgbm90IGhhZCBhbnkgaXNzdWVzLCBpJ2Qgc2F5IHN0aWNrIHdp dGggaXQuJm5ic3A7IEkgZG8gTk9UIHJlY29tbWVuZA0KIHN0YWNraW5nIHR3byBvbmUgaW5jaCBm aWx0ZXJzLiAmbmJzcDs8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAg Y2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+Jm5ic3A7PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8 ZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPk9uIE1vbiwgRGVjIDEzLCAyMDIxIGF0 IDQ6MjAgUE0gSmltIFN0b25lICZsdDs8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86MTc4OWFscGluZUBnbWFpbC5j b20iPjE3ODlhbHBpbmVAZ21haWwuY29tPC9hPiZndDsgd3JvdGU6PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8 L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGJsb2NrcXVvdGUgc3R5bGU9ImJvcmRlcjpub25lO2JvcmRlci1sZWZ0 OnNvbGlkICNDQ0NDQ0MgMS4wcHQ7cGFkZGluZzowaW4gMGluIDBpbiA2LjBwdDttYXJnaW4tbGVm dDo0LjhwdDttYXJnaW4tdG9wOjUuMHB0O21hcmdpbi1yaWdodDowaW47bWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTo1 LjBwdCI+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPlRoZSBjb21wYW55IHRo YXQgaW5zdGFsbGVkIG15IEhWQUMgc3lzdGVtIGEgZmV3IHllYXJzIGFnbyB1c2VkIGEgZmlsdGVy IGJveCBvbiB0aGUgcmV0dXJuIGxpbmUgdGhhdCB0YWtlcyAyMOKAnSB4IDI1JnF1b3Q7IHg8c3Bh biBjbGFzcz0iYXBwbGUtY29udmVydGVkLXNwYWNlIj48Yj4mbmJzcDs8L2I+PC9zcGFuPjxiPjTi gJ08L2I+PHNwYW4gY2xhc3M9ImFwcGxlLWNvbnZlcnRlZC1zcGFjZSI+Jm5ic3A7PC9zcGFuPmZp bHRlcnMsIHdoaWNoDQogaXMgYW4gdW51c3VhbCwgYW5kIHRodXMgZXhwZW5zaXZlLCBzaXplIC0g ZmlsdGVycyBnZW5lcmFsbHkgcnVuIGFib3V0ICQyNSBlYWNoIC0gdGhhdCBpcyBub3QgcmVhZGls eSBhdmFpbGFibGUgb3RoZXIgdGhhbiBvbmxpbmUuJm5ic3A7IER1cmluZyBjb25zdHJ1Y3Rpb24s IG15IGdlbmVyYWwgY29udHJhY3RvciBqdXN0IGhhZCBhJm5ic3A7Y2hlYXAgMjDigJ0geCAyNSZx dW90OyB4PHNwYW4gY2xhc3M9ImFwcGxlLWNvbnZlcnRlZC1zcGFjZSI+Jm5ic3A7PC9zcGFuPjxi PjHigJ08c3BhbiBjbGFzcz0iYXBwbGUtY29udmVydGVkLXNwYWNlIj4mbmJzcDs8L3NwYW4+PC9i PmZpbHRlcg0KIGluIHRoZXJlIHRoYXQgc2VlbWVkIHRvIHdvcmsganVzdCBmaW5lLiZuYnNwOyBJ IGNoZWNrZWQgdGhlIGluc3RhbGxhdGlvbiBpbnN0cnVjdGlvbnMgZm9yIHRoZSBmdXJuYWNlIGFu ZCB0aGVyZSBhcmUgbm8gc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbnMgZm9yIHRoZSBmaWx0ZXJzLCBvdGhlciB0aGFu IHRoYXQgdGhleSBuZWVkIHRvIGJlIGNoYW5nZWQgcmVndWxhcmx5LCB3aGljaCBpcyBnZXR0aW5n IHByZXR0eSBleHBlbnNpdmUuJm5ic3A7IElzIHRoZXJlIGFueSByZWFzb24gSSBjb3VsZG7igJl0 DQoganVzdCB1c2UgMeKAnSBmaWx0ZXJzLCB3aGljaCBhcmUgbGVzcyB0aGFuIGhhbGYgdGhlIHBy aWNlPyZuYnNwOyBNYXliZSBldmVuIHB1dCB0d28gb2YgdGhlbSBpbiB0aGUgYm94LCBhIGdvb2Qg b25lIGZpcnN0IHRvIGNhdGNoIG1vc3Qgb2YgdGhlIGR1c3QgYW5kIGEgY2hlYXAgb25lIGxpa2Ug dGhlIGNvbnRyYWN0b3IgdXNlZCBhcyBhIHNlY29uZGFyeSBvbmUuJm5ic3A7IEl0IGlzIGEgc251 ZyBmaXQgYW5kIEkgZG9u4oCZdCB0aGluayB0aGVyZSBpcyBhbnkgZGFuZ2VyDQogb2YgdGhlbSB0 aXBwaW5nLCBidXQgdHdvIHdvdWxkIG1ha2UgaXQgaW1wb3NzaWJsZS48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4N CjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj4mbmJzcDs8bzpwPjwv bzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3Jt YWwiPlRoYW5rcyw8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4N CjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPkppbTxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4N CjwvZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCIgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206MTIuMHB0 Ij5fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXzxicj4NCjxi cj4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpTaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQiIHRhcmdldD0iX2Js YW5rIj5TaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQ8L2E+PGJyPg0KRG9uYXRlOjxzcGFuIGNsYXNz PSJhcHBsZS1jb252ZXJ0ZWQtc3BhY2UiPiZuYnNwOzwvc3Bhbj48YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3 LnRlYW0ubmV0L2RvbmF0ZS5odG1sIiB0YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+aHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5l dC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbDwvYT48YnI+DQpTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uJm5ic3A7ICQx Mi45Njxicj4NCkFyY2hpdmU6PHNwYW4gY2xhc3M9ImFwcGxlLWNvbnZlcnRlZC1zcGFjZSI+Jm5i c3A7PC9zcGFuPjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvcGlwZXJtYWlsL3Nob3AtdGFs ayIgdGFyZ2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiPmh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvcGlwZXJtYWlsL3Nob3AtdGFs azwvYT48c3BhbiBjbGFzcz0iYXBwbGUtY29udmVydGVkLXNwYWNlIj4mbmJzcDs8L3NwYW4+PGEg aHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L2FyY2hpdmUiIHRhcmdldD0iX2JsYW5rIj5odHRw Oi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZTwvYT48YnI+DQo8YnI+DQpVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9NYW5h Z2U6PHNwYW4gY2xhc3M9ImFwcGxlLWNvbnZlcnRlZC1zcGFjZSI+Jm5ic3A7PC9zcGFuPjxhIGhy ZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10YWxrL2pkaW5u aXNAZ21haWwuY29tIiB0YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+aHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L21haWxt YW4vb3B0aW9ucy9zaG9wLXRhbGsvamRpbm5pc0BnbWFpbC5jb208L2E+PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+ DQo8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48YnIg Y2xlYXI9ImFsbCI+DQo8YnI+DQotLTxzcGFuIGNsYXNzPSJhcHBsZS1jb252ZXJ0ZWQtc3BhY2Ui PiZuYnNwOzwvc3Bhbj48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBj bGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj49PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT08YnI+DQo9 IE5ldmVyIG9mZmVuZCBwZW9wbGUgd2l0aCBzdHlsZSB3aGVuIHlvdSZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyA9PGJy Pg0KPSBjYW4gb2ZmZW5kIHdpdGggc3Vic3RhbmNlIC0tLSBTYW0gQnJvd24mbmJzcDsgPTxicj4N Cj09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PTxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+ DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9y bWFsIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0 bWw+DQo= --_000_CO1PR06MB7994B781BF633593D6B91FE5A8759CO1PR06MB7994namp_-- --===============2607052074761291253== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2607052074761291253==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Dec 14 04:37:07 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3D70A0BA0 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 04:37:07 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from st43p00im-zteg10071901.me.com (unknown [17.58.63.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FDAEA0AE0 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 04:36:56 -0700 (MST) s=1a1hai; t=1639481815; bh=W7/BTOnFsxaVKjKg5z/Lf8VH8ZEMLYsZjrHMhiJfB8g=; h=Content-Type:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=DV4UmY8bCPmPNpF07wyOW/yGBJjJk69YTFzlCZY/xboVKld71AWFOtrXlYb4xYr9L czzh+PJf3GNJdE832MtEIs3BTLdhyDWp14THPgziE6fveeRXYN/wi08HwglKjDYuBx +o87P3NDRwPsoi2LT3kENbVYvPmV8aRUlQgdOEIvkEHUPosNnywhPHeB3npzXlTL34 IDBAEFswFI+nWTknTUZdJsHDLZ2WJSgLQlgEOMFfMqXhjYVDVnz7CWlzzWlodqgTA0 62Oj2Pd2t9sGDbiqS05fkiM16aSJThMQMbMdn+PPUmBcfAKaYNOJvUtHHKRxHgZKqT g5kfpALgrcnRQ== Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-73-195-119-82.hsd1.nj.comcast.net [73.195.119.82]) by st43p00im-zteg10071901.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3E0B3D818B2 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 11:36:55 +0000 (UTC) From: Tom Coradeschi Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 06:36:54 -0500 References: <7A31A1A5-4974-420F-8A92-2DC3A90E5661@gmail.com> To: shop-talk definitions=2021-12-13_12:2021-12-13, 2021-12-13 signatures=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2009150000 definitions=main-2112140067 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Furnace Filters Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2096300439322944237== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-42920B79-FA93-45D7-AFBA-26120A039B22 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Now you=E2=80=99re getting to the point. Filtration efficiency is going to b= e measured in MERV (and/or MPR, if you=E2=80=99re 3M) and should be independ= ent of filter thickness.=20 What the 4=E2=80=9D filter buys you is (for the same filtration efficiency) l= onger filter life, and, maybe, lower pressure drop across the filter. The $6= 4k question is: how much lower, and does it really make a difference? If you= do end up buying a differential pressure gage, would you be interested in r= unning 1=E2=80=9D vs 4=E2=80=9D and reporting out what you see? You=E2=80=99= d have to conjure up a way to seal up the duct so you get a good upstream re= ading with the 1=E2=80=9D, I think.=20 Another ME here, albeit one who is not crazy about doing sheet metal work =E2= =80=A6 at least not crazy enough that I see the point in going to a 4=E2=80=9D= filter, sans data showing it to be worth the effort. And I have a box full o= f 1=E2=80=9D MERV 13 filters to use up - on a 3 month change cycle I am good= until early 2023, at this point:-) Whatever you do, don=E2=80=99t stack 1=E2=80=9D filters. They will act like t= wo resistors in series - your blower motor will almost certainly not respond= well to that.=20 Regards, Tom Coradeschi Tjcora@icloud.com > On Dec 13, 2021, at 7:03 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFThanks, guys. That is all good feedback. David: I hadn=E2=80=99t= considered using a washable filter, but it is an interesting idea. It look= s like a 4=E2=80=9D one will cost me around $100, so the breakeven point is a= fter a year. Not too bad. >=20 > But, here is an interesting point that showed up tangentially when I Googl= ed =E2=80=9Cwashable furnace filters=E2=80=9D:=20 >=20 > Fortunately, most 20x25x4 air filters last between six to eight months. By= that calculation, the average homeowners will not need more than two 20x25x= 4 air filters in any given year. In contrast, a one-inch air filter will nee= d to be changed every two to three months. https://servicechampions.com/ben= efits-of-a-20x25x4-air-filter-installed-in-your-furnace/ >=20 > If that is true, the cost difference between the 4=E2=80=9D and 1=E2=80=9D= disappears. Thoughts? >=20 > Jim=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Dec 13, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Pat Horne wrote: >>=20 >> My shop air handler is set up to use a 2=E2=80=9D filter but the installe= r said to use 2 one inch filters, both good ones. I watch the first one & re= move it when it is too dirty, move the second one up & install a new second o= ne.=20 >> There is some discoloration on the second filter, so it is doing somethin= g.=20 >>=20 >> If you want to go with two different ones, I=E2=80=99d put the poorer one= first, followed by the better one.=20 >>=20 >> My HVAC guy says to not use the corrugated filters, nor the fiberglass on= es that you can see throughout. He sells me Purolator 312 filters by the cas= e.=20 >>=20 >> Peace, >> Pat >>=20 >> Pat Horne=20 >> We support Habitat for Humanity >>=20 >>=20 >> On Dec 13, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFThe company that installed my HVAC system a few years ago used a= filter box on the return line that takes 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 4=E2=80=9D fil= ters, which is an unusual, and thus expensive, size - filters generally run a= bout $25 each - that is not readily available other than online. During con= struction, my general contractor just had a cheap 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 1=E2=80= =9D filter in there that seemed to work just fine. I checked the installati= on instructions for the furnace and there are no specifications for the filt= ers, other than that they need to be changed regularly, which is getting pre= tty expensive. Is there any reason I couldn=E2=80=99t just use 1=E2=80=9D f= ilters, which are less than half the price? Maybe even put two of them in t= he box, a good one first to catch most of the dust and a cheap one like the c= ontractor used as a secondary one. It is a snug fit and I don=E2=80=99t thi= nk there is any danger of them tipping, but two would make it impossible. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Jim >> _______________________________________________ >>=20 >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar= chive >>=20 >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patin= texas@icloud.com >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc= hive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora= @icloud.com >=20 --Apple-Mail-42920B79-FA93-45D7-AFBA-26120A039B22 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Now you=E2=80=99re getting to the point. Fi= ltration efficiency is going to be measured in MERV (and/or MPR, if you=E2=80= =99re 3M) and should be independent of filter thickness.

What the 4=E2=80=9D filter buys you is (for the same filtration effici= ency) longer filter life, and, maybe, lower pressure drop across the filter.= The $64k question is: how much lower, and does it really make a difference?= If you do end up buying a differential pressure gage, would you be interest= ed in running 1=E2=80=9D vs 4=E2=80=9D and reporting out what you see? You=E2= =80=99d have to conjure up a way to seal up the duct so you get a good upstr= eam reading with the 1=E2=80=9D, I think.

Ano= ther ME here, albeit one who is not crazy about doing sheet metal work =E2=80= =A6 at least not crazy enough that I see the point in going to a 4=E2=80=9D f= ilter, sans data showing it to be worth the effort. And I have a box full of= 1=E2=80=9D MERV 13 filters to use up - on a 3 month change cycle I am good u= ntil early 2023, at this point:-)

Whatever you do, d= on=E2=80=99t stack 1=E2=80=9D filters. They will act like two resistors in s= eries - your blower motor will almost certainly not respond well to that.&nb= sp;

Regards,

Tom Cor= adeschi
Tjcora@icloud.com

On Dec 13, 2021, at 7:03 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:

=EF=BB=BFThanks, guys. That is all good feedback. David: I hadn=E2=80= =99t considered using a washable filter, but it is an interesting idea. &nbs= p;It looks like a 4=E2=80=9D one will cost me around $100, so the breakeven p= oint is after a year. Not too bad.

But, here is an interesting point that showed up tangential= ly when I Googled =E2=80=9Cwashable furnace filters=E2=80=9D:

Fortunately, most 20x25x4 air filters last between <= /span>six to eight months. B= y that calculation, the average homeowners will not need more than two 20x25= x4 air filters in any given year. In contrast, a one-inch air filter will ne= ed to be changed every two to three months. https://servicechampions.com/benefits-of-a-20x25x4-a= ir-filter-installed-in-your-furnace/
<= div>
If that is true, the cost difference between t= he 4=E2=80=9D and 1=E2=80=9D disappears. Thoughts?

Jim

On Dec 13, 2021, at 5= :32 PM, Pat Horne <pa= tintexas@icloud.com> wrote:

My shop air handler i= s set up to use a 2=E2=80=9D filter but the installer said to use 2 one inch= filters, both good ones. I watch the first one & remove it when it is t= oo dirty, move the second one up & install a new second one.
There is some discoloration on the second filter, so it is doing s= omething.

If= you want to go with two different ones, I=E2=80=99d put the poorer one firs= t, followed by the better one.

My HVAC guy says to not use the corrugated filters, nor t= he fiberglass ones that you can see throughout. He sells me Purolator 312 fi= lters by the case.

Peace,
Pat

Pa= t Horne
We support Habitat for Humanity

= On Dec 13, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFThe company that i= nstalled my HVAC system a few years ago used a filter box on the return line= that takes 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 4=E2=80=9D filters, which i= s an unusual, and thus expensive, size - filters generally run about $25 eac= h - that is not readily available other than online. During constructi= on, my general contractor just had a cheap 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 1=E2=80=9D filter in there that seemed to work just fine. I c= hecked the installation instructions for the furnace and there are no specif= ications for the filters, other than that they need to be changed regularly,= which is getting pretty expensive. Is there any reason I couldn=E2=80= =99t just use 1=E2=80=9D filters, which are less than half the price? = Maybe even put two of them in the box, a good one first to catch most of the= dust and a cheap one like the contractor used as a secondary one. It i= s a snug fit and I don=E2=80=99t think there is any danger of them tipping, b= ut two would make it impossible.

Thanks,
Jim
____________= ___________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http:/= /www.team.net/donate.html
Suggeste= d annual donation $12.96
Archive= : http://www.= team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com<= /a>

=

__________________= _____________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlSuggested annual donation $12.96
Archive: http= ://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
=
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/opt= ions/shop-talk/tjcora@icloud.com

= --Apple-Mail-42920B79-FA93-45D7-AFBA-26120A039B22-- --===============2096300439322944237== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2096300439322944237==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Dec 14 09:30:19 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62E4BA0B78 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 09:30:19 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qv1-f43.google.com (unknown [209.85.219.43]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 815EBA0B4D for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 09:30:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-qv1-f43.google.com with SMTP id kl7so861819qvb.3 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 08:30:09 -0800 (PST) h=content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version:subject:date:message-id :references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=STXnqMh3EdXju/VMi/Xov0ANVpNb+N7huSugGYPyLvU=; b=OZ7MsBS86UvBQI14q+e4F5cdsIVQyi16APhdWMS7PgW3SypymlkoLl3DGvgG5M4Ncs DsXHd57cNlvb0XdjqI/EVMBBUIfLRcC1+gs8hMFYjPxOohXiT9uXOOzob6rFJP+srUsV i7O/9xC4jihUI+CI1J37Qb395kXMvxB4gh4Gkqf7FSzNPvp0AfTKzQcnTzk8QZk4KXey DEbAEc3IWi3R+wOx+a219GD3O6LDrBkSFWlZXmncLwBgPT0ayYaH1g3c1M7ZHOMQEWIN Kp82uIO4Wsh/fOLYBh1glQFf5YHaQtHAiRzY9hAfpKq9/kibILVrXUsYhQZrRayF4SZc tguw== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version :subject:date:message-id:references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=STXnqMh3EdXju/VMi/Xov0ANVpNb+N7huSugGYPyLvU=; b=tiYLSqijRHuThZuoQbrYa/6jVPzsgv2dATY83UAgHB9EhCGnTUmm9NoAnLnUTjMjiz /woDwGuBCGfXH5wkzOAYNbUon0zv9yAjolZAnx3hRmjOzFAr2oCosCIwaJsqX9tMp8Q3 cQvSpDBSbZfH3/0fWUGRtCs3abvamnPjUM8UlhxyCllytbUIUNboN4IJM0u5BKcdTzFu LWNDARxWYxfrSUi/yJ5ood4tDglI07RDH/En9jOd1rpEA30Q4aUa7Zr74/zsT5itJ0co FHLiEVaT91+2mRCvbC15TBIiQplvwUcKb22sCldWt2SRQoE+gLeXuIoBxb0vaO5I0CXJ DNLg== Nzajszzw0Tef2Q0H7NMfu1tQ/s0SenGdww== gu8mr6537217qvb.18.1639499408654; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 08:30:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (ool-4350ed26.dyn.optonline.net. [67.80.237.38]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i16sm266267qtx.57.2021.12.14.08.30.07 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Dec 2021 08:30:07 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 11:30:06 -0500 References: <994F9BD2-BA1F-4717-9518-31F772C8CC31@icloud.com> To: Tom Coradeschi Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Furnace Filters Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4748871553563133602== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-4980F119-01CD-4C0F-9395-F91A2C67A83D charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, guys! For now I will stay with the 4=E2=80=9D filters and add the g= auge to my list of fun things to do when I have a little extra time.=20 Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 14, 2021, at 6:37 AM, Tom Coradeschi wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFNow you=E2=80=99re getting to the point. Filtration efficiency is= going to be measured in MERV (and/or MPR, if you=E2=80=99re 3M) and should b= e independent of filter thickness.=20 >=20 > What the 4=E2=80=9D filter buys you is (for the same filtration efficiency= ) longer filter life, and, maybe, lower pressure drop across the filter. The= $64k question is: how much lower, and does it really make a difference? If y= ou do end up buying a differential pressure gage, would you be interested in= running 1=E2=80=9D vs 4=E2=80=9D and reporting out what you see? You=E2=80=99= d have to conjure up a way to seal up the duct so you get a good upstream re= ading with the 1=E2=80=9D, I think.=20 >=20 > Another ME here, albeit one who is not crazy about doing sheet metal work =E2= =80=A6 at least not crazy enough that I see the point in going to a 4=E2=80=9D= filter, sans data showing it to be worth the effort. And I have a box full o= f 1=E2=80=9D MERV 13 filters to use up - on a 3 month change cycle I am good= until early 2023, at this point:-) >=20 > Whatever you do, don=E2=80=99t stack 1=E2=80=9D filters. They will act lik= e two resistors in series - your blower motor will almost certainly not resp= ond well to that.=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Tom Coradeschi > Tjcora@icloud.com >=20 >>> On Dec 13, 2021, at 7:03 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote: >>>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFThanks, guys. That is all good feedback. David: I hadn=E2=80=99= t considered using a washable filter, but it is an interesting idea. It loo= ks like a 4=E2=80=9D one will cost me around $100, so the breakeven point is= after a year. Not too bad. >>=20 >> But, here is an interesting point that showed up tangentially when I Goog= led =E2=80=9Cwashable furnace filters=E2=80=9D:=20 >>=20 >> Fortunately, most 20x25x4 air filters last between six to eight months. B= y that calculation, the average homeowners will not need more than two 20x25= x4 air filters in any given year. In contrast, a one-inch air filter will ne= ed to be changed every two to three months. https://servicechampions.com/be= nefits-of-a-20x25x4-air-filter-installed-in-your-furnace/ >>=20 >> If that is true, the cost difference between the 4=E2=80=9D and 1=E2=80=9D= disappears. Thoughts? >>=20 >> Jim=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Dec 13, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Pat Horne wrote: >>>=20 >>> My shop air handler is set up to use a 2=E2=80=9D filter but the install= er said to use 2 one inch filters, both good ones. I watch the first one & r= emove it when it is too dirty, move the second one up & install a new second= one.=20 >>> There is some discoloration on the second filter, so it is doing somethi= ng.=20 >>>=20 >>> If you want to go with two different ones, I=E2=80=99d put the poorer on= e first, followed by the better one.=20 >>>=20 >>> My HVAC guy says to not use the corrugated filters, nor the fiberglass o= nes that you can see throughout. He sells me Purolator 312 filters by the ca= se.=20 >>>=20 >>> Peace, >>> Pat >>>=20 >>> Pat Horne=20 >>> We support Habitat for Humanity >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Dec 13, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote: >>>=20 >>> =EF=BB=BFThe company that installed my HVAC system a few years ago used a= filter box on the return line that takes 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 4=E2=80=9D fil= ters, which is an unusual, and thus expensive, size - filters generally run a= bout $25 each - that is not readily available other than online. During con= struction, my general contractor just had a cheap 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 1=E2=80= =9D filter in there that seemed to work just fine. I checked the installati= on instructions for the furnace and there are no specifications for the filt= ers, other than that they need to be changed regularly, which is getting pre= tty expensive. Is there any reason I couldn=E2=80=99t just use 1=E2=80=9D f= ilters, which are less than half the price? Maybe even put two of them in t= he box, a good one first to catch most of the dust and a cheap one like the c= ontractor used as a secondary one. It is a snug fit and I don=E2=80=99t thi= nk there is any danger of them tipping, but two would make it impossible. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Jim >>> _______________________________________________ >>>=20 >>> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/a= rchive >>>=20 >>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pati= ntexas@icloud.com >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >>=20 >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar= chive >>=20 >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcor= a@icloud.com >>=20 > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc= hive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789al= pine@gmail.com >=20 --Apple-Mail-4980F119-01CD-4C0F-9395-F91A2C67A83D charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, guys! For now I will stay wit= h the 4=E2=80=9D filters and add the gauge to my list of fun things to do wh= en I have a little extra time.

Sent from my iP= hone

On Dec 14, 2021, at= 6:37 AM, Tom Coradeschi <tjcora@icloud.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFNow you=E2=80=99re g= etting to the point. Filtration efficiency is going to be measured in MERV (= and/or MPR, if you=E2=80=99re 3M) and should be independent of filter thickn= ess.

What the 4=E2=80=9D filter buys you is (for th= e same filtration efficiency) longer filter life, and, maybe, lower pressure= drop across the filter. The $64k question is: how much lower, and does it r= eally make a difference? If you do end up buying a differential pressure gag= e, would you be interested in running 1=E2=80=9D vs 4=E2=80=9D and reporting= out what you see? You=E2=80=99d have to conjure up a way to seal up the duc= t so you get a good upstream reading with the 1=E2=80=9D, I think.

Another ME here, albeit one who is not crazy about doi= ng sheet metal work =E2=80=A6 at least not crazy enough that I see the point= in going to a 4=E2=80=9D filter, sans data showing it to be worth the effor= t. And I have a box full of 1=E2=80=9D MERV 13 filters to use up - on a 3 mo= nth change cycle I am good until early 2023, at this point:-)

=
Whatever you do, don=E2=80=99t stack 1=E2=80=9D filters. They wil= l act like two resistors in series - your blower motor will almost certainly= not respond well to that.

Regards,

Tom Coradeschi
Tjcora@icloud.com

On Dec 13, 2021, at 7:03 PM, Jim St= one <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFThanks, guys. That is all good f= eedback. David: I hadn=E2=80=99t considered using a washable filter, but it i= s an interesting idea. It looks like a 4=E2=80=9D one will cost me aro= und $100, so the breakeven point is after a year. Not too bad.

But, here is an interesting poi= nt that showed up tangentially when I Googled =E2=80=9Cwashable furnace filt= ers=E2=80=9D:

Fortunately, most 20x25x4 air= filters last between six= to eight months. By that calculation, the average homeowners will n= ot need more than two 20x25x4 air filters in any given year. In contrast, a o= ne-inch air filter will need to be changed every two to three months. = https://servicechampions.c= om/benefits-of-a-20x25x4-air-filter-installed-in-your-furnace/

If that is true, the= cost difference between the 4=E2=80=9D and 1=E2=80=9D disappears. Tho= ughts?

Jim

On Dec 13, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Pat Horne <patintexas@icloud.com> wrote:

My shop air handler is set up to use a 2=E2=80=9D filter but the installe= r said to use 2 one inch filters, both good ones. I watch the first one &= ; remove it when it is too dirty, move the second one up & install a new= second one.
There is some discoloration on the second f= ilter, so it is doing something.

<= /div>
If you want to go with two different ones, I=E2=80=99d p= ut the poorer one first, followed by the better one.

My HVAC guy says to not use the corr= ugated filters, nor the fiberglass ones that you can see throughout. He sell= s me Purolator 312 filters by the case.

P= eace,
Pat

Pat Horne
We support Habitat for Human= ity

On Dec 13, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF= The company that installed my HVAC system a few years ago used a filter box o= n the return line that takes 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 4=E2=80=9D filters, which is an unusual, and thus expensive, size - filters generally= run about $25 each - that is not readily available other than online. = ;During construction, my general contractor just had a cheap 20=E2=80=9D= x 25" x 1=E2=80=9D filter in there that seemed to work ju= st fine. I checked the installation instructions for the furnace and t= here are no specifications for the filters, other than that they need to be c= hanged regularly, which is getting pretty expensive. Is there any reas= on I couldn=E2=80=99t just use 1=E2=80=9D filters, which are less than half t= he price? Maybe even put two of them in the box, a good one first to c= atch most of the dust and a cheap one like the contractor used as a secondar= y one. It is a snug fit and I don=E2=80=99t think there is any danger o= f them tipping, but two would make it impossible.

Thanks,
Jim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation $12.96
Archive: h= ttp://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
<= span class=3D"">
Unsubscribe/Manage: <= a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.= com" class=3D"">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@i= cloud.com

________= _______________________________________

Sho= p-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.htm= l
Suggested annual donation $12.96
Arc= hive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive<= /span>

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/m= ailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora@icloud.com

=
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donat= e: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation= $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-ta= lk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscrib= e/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine@gmail.c= om

= --Apple-Mail-4980F119-01CD-4C0F-9395-F91A2C67A83D-- --===============4748871553563133602== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4748871553563133602==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 20 12:50:57 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B0BAA0F3E for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2021 12:50:57 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io1-f47.google.com (unknown [209.85.166.47]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E8EA0F34 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2021 12:50:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-io1-f47.google.com with SMTP id z18so14805415iof.5 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2021 11:50:46 -0800 (PST) h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=KAuv2uMwCaoQ0lyTFWYKbu+Dzzt/bIDYt10bpwmwEVs=; b=SZUVn0TY3pAatS3Nn5kUZAHhdh9mzC/GmVt19UTwLsGZt0563X/lY35aCW2ouq12aJ B/21pusHwau9RgWGjMm4rCYjviGuJoahhMGNLVsHTbLifhW1n8XRrU62L8XeEAKTw2El 0q165rWTEh7KTb2rLuzfLcc3+zuOiuskcplc1U9NCTyQgq1tIUfThUvqRTXIf4441+O0 jlESfcORsIvCOhgLcA340fCRICfVD+CWx68gAfaJe7jVuTM5r7gEbncrUgqwzRab2vLR yaPp4mxJaKn02wGwBajxhl+8LgHLG/ygiIdzF1giNgiwK2AvQx20chBfowgE2hoNqIMn EtUg== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=KAuv2uMwCaoQ0lyTFWYKbu+Dzzt/bIDYt10bpwmwEVs=; b=3wogZePD+k29UkdUljq5h4JCnwn1F1vSqn63EU7LT/abiTfdCjXXhPPsZDu/0vnerB aSlvor9PziAYnovkpOhOanDB6yV/HCy4P8hJd2dBMO2ufq9JAExRFibgQCQ3eeCv6uhu nlYZugOt+Q4MvWuoOgrADImi9IPJ1qr+YCxhgzp4NEhrTWfJ0PFIT+hURsH6PqoNTi0R Gn81WoiZmW8OWXBMw2v8nlS6EGJn8iDAQWZSpzkpsnMqzND0s/Wi2cCWS0nHuYV0gPs+ gvbnjTyYcALab0iEKdNF9cdPmOaemYGilXjJwRzPqN3VAnzHhCG2MRV3dTknDfP6bEPF Xrbw== Guwtzq9k6SrzcQpjxQHnVl/hlmRszMY= w29mr11481494jal.156.1640029844188; Mon, 20 Dec 2021 11:50:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from KarlIntel ([23.19.141.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b8sm10728752ilj.0.2021.12.20.11.50.43 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 20 Dec 2021 11:50:43 -0800 (PST) From: Karl Vacek To: "'Jim Stone'" <1789alpine@gmail.com>, "'Shop Talk'" References: <7A31A1A5-4974-420F-8A92-2DC3A90E5661@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2021 13:50:44 -0600 Thread-Index: AQKAt+sXwfHRuH4IJg+w3Fm4p75c4AIeIP7eAdmmYMWqyoRuYA== Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Furnace Filters Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============6417871014156543685== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008C_01D7F5A8.965A4C50" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01D7F5A8.965A4C50 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The 4=E2=80=9D filter will give you far more filter area. Generally the = media for a given MERV rating will be about the same (differs between = brands of course). A thicker filter has deeper pleats, probably almost = as many in a 1=E2=80=9D or a 4=E2=80=9D cartridge, but the 4=E2=80=9D = will have roughly 4 times the area. Thus a thicker filter of the same = MERV rating will generally last as much longer as it is thicker. =20 Remember too that the more filter area the less the pressure drop across = the filter. Besides blower life, the lower the pressure drop the more = effective the filtration will be. I used 5=E2=80=9D filters in the old = furnace because they were the thickest that would fit. I think they = were about $35 apiece for 20x25. New furnace has Carrier=E2=80=99s = mucho-expensive air filtration system which is a box that holds a = 5=E2=80=9D filter and some electrostatic wires on the clean side. While = the 10-year warrantee is running I=E2=80=99ll bend over to buy theirs, = but I doubt they=E2=80=99re anything special other than that they = connect with a sensor in the unit that tells it that it=E2=80=99s eating = the expensive stuff. =20 Karl =20 =20 =20 From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of = Jim Stone Sent: Monday, December 13, 2021 6:03 PM To: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Furnace Filters =20 Thanks, guys. That is all good feedback. David: I hadn=E2=80=99t = considered using a washable filter, but it is an interesting idea. It = looks like a 4=E2=80=9D one will cost me around $100, so the breakeven = point is after a year. Not too bad. =20 But, here is an interesting point that showed up tangentially when I = Googled =E2=80=9Cwashable furnace filters=E2=80=9D:=20 =20 Fortunately, most 20x25x4 air filters last between six to eight months. = By that calculation, the average homeowners will not need more than two = 20x25x4 air filters in any given year. In contrast, a one-inch air = filter will need to be changed every two to three months. = https://servicechampions.com/benefits-of-a-20x25x4-air-filter-installed-i= n-your-furnace/ =20 If that is true, the cost difference between the 4=E2=80=9D and = 1=E2=80=9D disappears. Thoughts? =20 Jim=20 =20 On Dec 13, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Pat Horne wrote: =20 My shop air handler is set up to use a 2=E2=80=9D filter but the = installer said to use 2 one inch filters, both good ones. I watch the = first one & remove it when it is too dirty, move the second one up & = install a new second one.=20 There is some discoloration on the second filter, so it is doing = something.=20 =20 If you want to go with two different ones, I=E2=80=99d put the poorer = one first, followed by the better one.=20 =20 My HVAC guy says to not use the corrugated filters, nor the fiberglass = ones that you can see throughout. He sells me Purolator 312 filters by = the case.=20 Peace, Pat =20 Pat Horne=20 We support Habitat for Humanity =20 On Dec 13, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote: =EF=BB=BFThe company that installed my HVAC system a few years ago used = a filter box on the return line that takes 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x = 4=E2=80=9D filters, which is an unusual, and thus expensive, size - = filters generally run about $25 each - that is not readily available = other than online. During construction, my general contractor just had = a cheap 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 1=E2=80=9D filter in there that seemed to = work just fine. I checked the installation instructions for the furnace = and there are no specifications for the filters, other than that they = need to be changed regularly, which is getting pretty expensive. Is = there any reason I couldn=E2=80=99t just use 1=E2=80=9D filters, which = are less than half the price? Maybe even put two of them in the box, a = good one first to catch most of the dust and a cheap one like the = contractor used as a secondary one. It is a snug fit and I = don=E2=80=99t think there is any danger of them tipping, but two would = make it impossible. =20 Thanks, Jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com =20 ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01D7F5A8.965A4C50 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The 4=E2=80=9D filter will give you far more filter area.=C2=A0 = Generally the media for a given MERV rating will be about the same = (differs between brands of course).=C2=A0 A thicker filter has deeper = pleats, probably almost as many in a 1=E2=80=9D or a 4=E2=80=9D = cartridge, but the 4=E2=80=9D will have roughly 4 times the area.=C2=A0 = Thus a thicker filter of the same MERV rating will generally last as = much longer as it is thicker.

Remember too that the more filter area the less the pressure drop = across the filter.=C2=A0 Besides blower life, the lower the pressure = drop the more effective the filtration will be.=C2=A0 I used 5=E2=80=9D = filters in the old furnace because they were the thickest that would = fit.=C2=A0 I think they were about $35 apiece for 20x25.=C2=A0 New = furnace has Carrier=E2=80=99s mucho-expensive air filtration system = which is a box that holds a 5=E2=80=9D filter and some electrostatic = wires on the clean side.=C2=A0 While the 10-year warrantee is running = I=E2=80=99ll bend over to buy theirs, but I doubt they=E2=80=99re = anything special other than that they connect with a sensor in the unit = that tells it that it=E2=80=99s eating the expensive = stuff.

Karl

From:= = Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of = Jim Stone
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2021 6:03 = PM
To: Shop Talk
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Furnace = Filters

Thanks, = guys. That is all good feedback. David: I hadn=E2=80=99t = considered using a washable filter, but it is an interesting idea. = It looks like a 4=E2=80=9D one will cost me around $100, so the = breakeven point is after a year. Not too = bad.

But, here is an interesting point that showed up = tangentially when I Googled =E2=80=9Cwashable furnace = filters=E2=80=9D:

Fortunately, most 20x25x4 air filters last between six to eight = months. By that calculation, the average homeowners will not need more than = two 20x25x4 air filters in any given year. In contrast, a one-inch air = filter will need to be changed every two to three months. = https://servicechampions.com/benefits-of-a-20x25= x4-air-filter-installed-in-your-furnace/

If that is true, the cost difference between the = 4=E2=80=9D and 1=E2=80=9D disappears. = Thoughts?

Jim

On = Dec 13, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Pat Horne <patintexas@icloud.com> = wrote:

My = shop air handler is set up to use a 2=E2=80=9D filter but the installer = said to use 2 one inch filters, both good ones. I watch the first one = & remove it when it is too dirty, move the second one up & = install a new second one.
There is some discoloration on the second filter, so = it is doing something.

If you want to go with two different ones, I=E2=80=99d = put the poorer one first, followed by the better = one.

My HVAC guy says to not use the corrugated filters, = nor the fiberglass ones that you can see throughout. He sells me = Purolator 312 filters by the = case.

Peace,
Pat

Pat = Horne
We support Habitat = for Humanity

On Dec 13, 2021, at = 4:21 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> = wrote:
=EF=BB=BFThe company = that installed my HVAC system a few years ago used a filter box on the = return line that takes 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 4=E2=80=9D = filters, which is an unusual, and thus expensive, size - filters = generally run about $25 each - that is not readily available other than = online. During construction, my general contractor just had = a cheap 20=E2=80=9D x 25" x 1=E2=80=9D filter in there = that seemed to work just fine. I checked the installation = instructions for the furnace and there are no specifications for the = filters, other than that they need to be changed regularly, which is = getting pretty expensive. Is there any reason I couldn=E2=80=99t = just use 1=E2=80=9D filters, which are less than half the price? = Maybe even put two of them in the box, a good one first to catch = most of the dust and a cheap one like the contractor used as a secondary = one. It is a snug fit and I don=E2=80=99t think there is any = danger of them tipping, but two would make it = impossible.

Thanks,
Jim
__________________________________________= _____

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
= href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<= /a>
Suggested annual donation $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipe= rmail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive<= br>
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.c= om

------=_NextPart_000_008C_01D7F5A8.965A4C50-- --===============6417871014156543685== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============6417871014156543685==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 27 10:41:52 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BB26A0AD2 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 10:41:52 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-h1p-028587.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.102.200.11]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79271A0893 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 10:41:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-h1p-027913.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.179.200]) by resqmta-h1p-028587.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 1sEhnYvLM9XKR1u0Dn6ypX; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 17:41:41 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1640626901; bh=56OweYuq1eO9hKZAmQRoELw9C5/Gaww17uSncPqZd8E=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To: From:Subject; b=IOG9LJPVkJbrWeTiBITCu13PAkT5B+YQ7SNCpymAo2CmLbaZ9yJtmqLncx8usTWFw xziyhlbydkTWE7sRjzM6Vbg9vizokKTkbV7VZ85QJAXPd8SDnHUS8wwTtFrTlyFSMA oiuT6VR+8WhReyi4cwxxuyHl9kEjsDBSS9Upt1M5hKsbGeAGi7FKoeAqCGMdXjEdWH QXsq8JE4jAkp0lLPBZTg3LIJ2SlPrCsYGsM6tY2QqeGBZukR9PSZ6Udzexhxauwa80 VEMjnacAFllMpakjsnW1PrU5AiNbK3M06y0d1rcRGiz2zAEZzCwO7P4rAWmq3xbmg/ /kyLU+Lh4ykuQ== Received: from [IPV6:2601:601:1501:a870::1a5b] ([IPv6:2601:601:1501:a870::1a5b]) by resomta-h1p-027913.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id 1u0BnyeNvIFDx1u0CnJ12q; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 17:41:41 +0000 Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 09:41:39 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.4.1 Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: Mike Sinclair Subject: [Shop-talk] cable Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============4578856533156305915== boundary="------------PABJjIWw1kPA03hMjsWI3K0L" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------PABJjIWw1kPA03hMjsWI3K0L Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, and it's only 17 degrees today, so.... Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas. It has an optical-optical cable, and my TV has a digital jack. Any good solutions? Mike --------------PABJjIWw1kPA03hMjsWI3K0L Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, and it's only 17 degrees today, so....

Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas. It has an optical-optical cable, and my TV has a digital jack. Any good solutions?

Mike

--------------PABJjIWw1kPA03hMjsWI3K0L-- --===============4578856533156305915== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4578856533156305915==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 27 10:45:49 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34690A0AF6 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 10:45:49 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pg1-f171.google.com (unknown [209.85.215.171]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D34FA0A6A for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 10:45:41 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-pg1-f171.google.com with SMTP id 7so1374896pgn.0 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 09:45:41 -0800 (PST) d=dougbraun.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=IAys5tsRHioGoL2KQgDo7BL11estviGjZ9Bn6b4k1a8=; b=THWAWcA34icx0iYRm21+CyjF1SzdMamVb+YvfURq2C/r1nE1FNJLBjw92L9L0tl4ik rPuleAIgjmDTGVek4t5d4yhxRJsHn6/wCSH/CpB08eeaY7DaMV90qmnd4Bwx7FTY0MeC G/3iU5ap3taCZJ92SUK43jOv6ciZKOjDno1Cw= d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IAys5tsRHioGoL2KQgDo7BL11estviGjZ9Bn6b4k1a8=; b=y9mNywzUwYwpRDIt2kvzbbRHD8r5MXs4uO6dIY3DRY8U+6OxsGCb6KYPZxLKMDULiM /IkgLzOe7HVIraPUbAw85l2VKJrZ1vKJAdCxTpjH7Pmy7pjXoUXp4jZ3AcEVCHMU82Op Zk+9/oSl3TVceHGvjZ9weIcEosjWKfNAiWLq7d7CfY/8FRfc20qDJXE5jx2pyLzhQMQ6 6KgImtwVD0XcXqrfAK/rVuj9G0Jv1uwZM+KNoJfkTPyhgakNxxDalJ7luyxvXRSBHeqL DYJgjIQ/qXYOrmUw8Q79MtHh1kXpj06mOakpoiCV/yaGLMzpscmthEjPrbCmkRSZVvXl YvjQ== ZfdHGoXwVzPlZBGEr+YqPhNWXBei7DRBu4gw6ZtZet8UYjPLOg== d4-20020aa78e44000000b004ad55c66376mr18748254pfr.71.1640627140443; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 09:45:40 -0800 (PST) References: From: Doug Braun Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 12:45:27 -0500 To: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cable Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8617291474734858224== --000000000000ea572705d4244504 It would be very strange for the soundbar to have only an optical input and no other type of connection. Is there any other way to connect to it? Doug On Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 12:42 PM Mike Sinclair wrote: > Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, > and it's only 17 degrees today, so.... > > Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas. It has an optical-optical > cable, and my TV has a digital jack. Any good solutions? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/doug@dougbraun.com > > --000000000000ea572705d4244504 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It would be very strange for the soundbar to have only an= optical input and no other type of connection. Is there any other way to c= onnect to it?

Doug
=
On Mon= , Dec 27, 2021, 12:42 PM Mike Sinclair <phoenix722@comcast.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, and it's only 17 degrees today, so....

Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas.=C2=A0 It has an optical-optical cable, and my TV has a digital jack.=C2=A0 Any good solutions?

Mike

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
errer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

alk/doug@dougbraun.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt= p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/doug@dougbraun.com

--000000000000ea572705d4244504-- --===============8617291474734858224== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8617291474734858224==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 27 10:49:37 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2A9FA0B05 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 10:49:37 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pl1-f172.google.com (unknown [209.85.214.172]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8F3BA0AE3 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 10:49:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-pl1-f172.google.com with SMTP id w24so11828561ply.12 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 09:49:28 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=c5ZCcOA63GrJB7434LJg71pu49IyH1/1X8vuBRdcXP0=; b=dZokE3nhLdCy0XuWOxuoCylu1gX1FCpeN8hAeuRu6tXCUkIL5AkYsBoFvk6oO6e1z9 ny3febC5420LHIMd8VfZVb8mv+xk+kyoFE/YFr8F3oY3zoB9WMvApR+CEGoL8RsUt9Ex 6PXZmR5I5r5NzIZXoufVwThYkS/MAqnS//NNwoaD0cth85ZzpWGmuL9H0CbhnTQdZk53 m8atIw/O4jiS7KPpLBXYn2aDlzOb5e6+JsDe6Bk9JApywe8O6xWVUv+Abs8G+vUkAx9D NqD4TCJMg5do05aKfVrxaZf2MjGdRs4dfT82ZYc1+6lo6TenAX07b2aOREvERYea2kn7 bS8A== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=c5ZCcOA63GrJB7434LJg71pu49IyH1/1X8vuBRdcXP0=; b=kM0Ic6ZiUeaoHRxIJFFA/ZtK5hRSp6q0xXWdiGiQbk75PZo4sxL2ejBsIvKXkcWC4A jASBAh4YJd0/w8P3j5Z97u3sg7jGD/nkPTU+dSro5DzQkRhnv4pg4BNFH6t2dz4TcuGw qGAVsUii92OD7ALciUBX9jXmOAJEp+wYxvEufLzGKE2zGJwBiG+xTUf3OlXnpu51QdrK An5hfOjf3Lb0n/btZpAm1mMKvf5PdtykRVh6c2Txy/vhFltWrZVyYQtrF2qPn7uzxQTp DMy0f6numcFtChVKhS/nSEnYX2ULZaCHQrNHT64kmBx0TwOwj1YCP+93dLoBxXE2CxLM /lRw== hIPDnpFt7ifgIKpxHlK54zUuRawxt/wsQpcvjkQ= t1mr22212401pjy.241.1640627368151; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 09:49:28 -0800 (PST) References: From: Bruce Bubeck Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 12:49:16 -0500 To: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cable Cc: Shop Talk List Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0801786923222007019== --0000000000007ccff705d424535d Mike, There are plenty of Digital optical in to analog RCA out converters out there, I've never used one but Amazon has them from around $15. Bruce On Mon, Dec 27, 2021 at 12:41 PM Mike Sinclair wrote: > Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, > and it's only 17 degrees today, so.... > > Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas. It has an optical-optical > cable, and my TV has a digital jack. Any good solutions? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bbubeck01@gmail.com > > --0000000000007ccff705d424535d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mike,
There are plenty of Digital optical in to analog= RCA out converters out there, I've never used one but Amazon has them = from around $15.
Bruce

=
On Mon, Dec 27, 2021 at 12:41 PM Mike= Sinclair <phoenix722@comcast.= net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, and it's only 17 degrees today, so....

Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas.=C2=A0 It has an optical-optical cable, and my TV has a digital jack.=C2=A0 Any good solutions?

Mike

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/bbubeck01@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bbubeck01@gmail.com

--0000000000007ccff705d424535d-- --===============0801786923222007019== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0801786923222007019==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 27 10:50:07 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1D6AA0B1D for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 10:50:07 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mr85p00im-ztdg06011801.me.com (unknown [17.58.23.199]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA2EFA0B12 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 10:49:54 -0700 (MST) s=1a1hai; t=1640627394; bh=7XdvqmsZLLKItvQ5jFe24U7cp0iFOPskqz8j8nD1g8U=; h=Content-Type:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=za1Bg10Igb4l9D6y5EqaS1B/rV84e1gHcLDuDWiH3OuMCN5lGSNHtSQ2ONezp1vBL SY8g4TGR/jQvHbQb3M5d+vQwY8lA1uJgN2cSe9Dxw1RkgMz6tk3oV5r7U15ihXII+n FcCCpc4wesqScLQVscWGBRrlBL6YJTTks93EZ0ZXl2rwDUqfdUUI/ICsShvCVHBFA2 vkjrf7Vm9+Mt6wZZENZnhbYSU0cX3dLv3BCb3LS71ZGRp6rgv4VhwyZbpGal4WKuht HHdh8kRhK2QxdQhwDp2tR2tUEO2dj7qeTi15JWRmyZpTPiAoYmr+oeqnQUE3Yf6303 Bxiul8NVknRDA== Received: from smtpclient.apple (mobile-166-176-58-172.mycingular.net [166.176.58.172]) by mr85p00im-ztdg06011801.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 44FA39C1222; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 17:49:54 +0000 (UTC) From: Pat Horne Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 09:49:52 -0800 References: To: Mike Sinclair =?UTF-8?Q?2903e8d5c8f:6.0.425,18.0.790,17.0.607.475.0000000_definitions?= =?UTF-8?Q?=3D2021-12-27=5F09:2021-12-24=5F01,2021-12-27=5F09,2020-04-07?= =?UTF-8?Q?=5F01_signatures=3D0?= clxscore=1011 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2112270087 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cable Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1947002006443993221== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-BAF15105-546C-4B3C-8E3B-7C3194EFA64A charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Search your favorite retailer for coaxial to optical audio converter & choos= e what looks best. I use either monoprice or Amazon. One thing to verify is t= hat your choice is actually coax to optical & not optical to coax.=20 Peace, Pat Pat Horne=20 We support Habitat for Humanity On Dec 27, 2021, at 9:42 AM, Mike Sinclair wrote: =EF=BB=BF Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, a= nd it's only 17 degrees today, so.... Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas. It has an optical-optical c= able, and my TV has a digital jack. Any good solutions? Mike _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi= ve as@icloud.com --Apple-Mail-BAF15105-546C-4B3C-8E3B-7C3194EFA64A charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Search your favorite retailer for coaxial t= o optical audio converter & choose what looks best. I use either monopri= ce or Amazon. One thing to verify is that your choice is actually coax to op= tical & not optical to coax.

Peace,
P= at

Pat Horne
We support Habitat for Humani= ty

On Dec 27, 2021, at 9:42 A= M, Mike Sinclair <phoenix722@comcast.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF =20 =20 =20
Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, and it's only 17 degrees today, so....

Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas. It has an optical-optical cable, and my TV has a digital jack. Any good solutions?

Mike

=20 _______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.= net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.tea= m.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://au= tox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com

= --Apple-Mail-BAF15105-546C-4B3C-8E3B-7C3194EFA64A-- --===============1947002006443993221== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1947002006443993221==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 27 14:34:48 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48CADA0BB3 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:34:48 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-lj1-f178.google.com (unknown [209.85.208.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 947DEA0AD0 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:32:27 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-lj1-f178.google.com with SMTP id g13so15413978ljj.10 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 13:32:27 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Hs2fbUR+XkBubHYGH++f802cDQtBR0OwFfth1yiJzHM=; b=clcdmUbKPf9ELmTex5gQkLH5/5uTUwN8tmKYrGVqv+1Y8LVfcW+t+wfySpwc7+7a8e 7R59qtub4SWywXY8s+mPnIKxemOynvEMcKhQ7MNeH76HU0elSELITIgWvP5hNBht2AJG Or6EIbcG8K5AZkMrfYRW7EcTL3rP+yu9V7MQzomnQAISjrbf41DuxavWqIeCtOdegAJw bOn6Ga1guOIUxwCkEPE01omrLJ474V8IR2vhJldROeX0csgsPBPgrV0ljtWVAzFifG1e gUX1R8Aurq1dyu+tZOI3eJ5h6/UWR2Yh25bwpGJNZC0/q1wPJd9A/+EpSbA5AnM8myYJ 8B9A== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Hs2fbUR+XkBubHYGH++f802cDQtBR0OwFfth1yiJzHM=; b=HbWCiUdq5AGRy+hWyEJWtRP/NyPbvaYuslHYZf3plErl+7CjrjQ1oNpEjqIfoKLaiP rGuZckSX1sfcG3W/jOftfrPzAIb7Y/w1no+hxuuVOsy8otl9ZySimXMNkFu8nPsctZ4S CSZd9nF7f/GRik4Rw7inwjBRprEmWtJmx8JOwlMneH21eFShxUJuYuPhZ8suC33adnC0 aNsj1RHwzkUCwBA7eJn1PFduCfIGb7bE0aTwPL5INd4lKsvU12RORiNyqsLymIUhphNs uiJEaVcXotS9VdD+lWn2FxvU2KXKhKG7uVZvvR2LB+NAVmNPzq0Twox2hCUE4BJ+6lh4 fxrA== H/umZERErwQmhtptx6T7q0rQ4L1hWMjBB6cIvZw= h19mr15716905ljq.68.1640640746388; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 13:32:26 -0800 (PST) References: From: Jeff Scarbrough Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:32:15 -0500 To: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cable Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3972074624718774175== --000000000000e47e0f05d427701f Which model is it? I looked up the lowest-priced one I could find, and it had HDMI input. I can't imagine not including that on all of them. The most expensive one I saw had two HDMI inputs but did not mention optical or digital. On Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 12:42 Mike Sinclair wrote: > Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, > and it's only 17 degrees today, so.... > > Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas. It has an optical-optical > cable, and my TV has a digital jack. Any good solutions? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com > > --000000000000e47e0f05d427701f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Which model is it?=C2=A0 I looked up the lowest-priced on= e I could find, and it had HDMI input.=C2=A0 I can't imagine not includ= ing that on all of them.=C2=A0 The most expensive one I saw had two HDMI in= puts but did not mention optical or digital.

On Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 12:42 Mik= e Sinclair <phoenix722@comcast= .net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, and it's only 17 degrees today, so....

Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas.=C2=A0 It has an optical-optical cable, and my TV has a digital jack.=C2=A0 Any good solutions?

Mike

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
errer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

alk/fishplate@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht= tp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com

--000000000000e47e0f05d427701f-- --===============3972074624718774175== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3972074624718774175==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 27 14:43:24 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E3C3A0BC3 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:43:24 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-a1p-077720.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.103.146.54]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E917BA0B38 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:43:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-a1p-077058.sys.comcast.net ([96.103.145.239]) by resqmta-a1p-077720.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 1wUinfnxoIUDU1xlzn9QZ9; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 21:43:15 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1640641395; bh=e9Lb//bh5Bt96eGhjfhNCZoFDlTYULGkyEDeCyELWI4=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From; b=RjPzJdQAzu8AjAv938obk5JHLSxyfAgUvfqt/XqjGxErEkVuoElwqT9y4Qr83MKXn qmOM4GQ1dI8olw8/GRmuLVkfv2dkyyhnjiRaTF5wTpVIMf6F86EqyXfzJf69Igh//r Sd5/g4lLphPztaAauYK4SgIcyFaw1wXvYtDz3VGNiZfAlkwoGUcxolsQFnuIXNi9BF MS5ucMeQ6XJrmVR5/PnW1d5uqw9ZtwjZnomlO1syOw+UazxlhkjgQ4QCSMLvpqR3JU JUOyLzcSC9m60lNKKZIbrd+Pla9MNmPv4ZhP+bSWiyZIJEcNc/qMi59iQ6iAUR3HJm w7UOecUPCINkA== Received: from [IPV6:2601:601:1501:a870::1a5b] ([IPv6:2601:601:1501:a870::1a5b]) by resomta-a1p-077058.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id 1xlbnlhDfOZcs1xlcn7qBs; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 21:42:53 +0000 Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 13:42:51 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.4.1 Content-Language: en-US To: Jeff Scarbrough References: From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cable Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============8649107708218218282== boundary="------------806xyI9oP0dY4s0kJR6NOdsK" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------806xyI9oP0dY4s0kJR6NOdsK Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit HW-A450 On 12/27/2021 1:32 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > Which model is it? I looked up the lowest-priced one I could find, > and it had HDMI input. I can't imagine not including that on all of > them. The most expensive one I saw had two HDMI inputs but did not > mention optical or digital. > > On Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 12:42 Mike Sinclair wrote: > > Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers > know all, and it's only 17 degrees today, so.... > > Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas. It has an > optical-optical cable, and my TV has a digital jack. Any good > solutions? > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com > --------------806xyI9oP0dY4s0kJR6NOdsK Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
HW-A450

On 12/27/2021 1:32 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:

Which model is it? I looked up the lowest-priced one I could find, and it had HDMI input. I can't imagine not including that on all of them. The most expensive one I saw had two HDMI inputs but did not mention optical or digital.

On Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 12:42 Mike Sinclair <phoenix722@comcast.net> wrote:

Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, and it's only 17 degrees today, so....

Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas. It has an optical-optical cable, and my TV has a digital jack. Any good solutions?

Mike

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com

--------------806xyI9oP0dY4s0kJR6NOdsK-- --===============8649107708218218282== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8649107708218218282==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 27 14:44:42 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90948A0BD3 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:44:42 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi1-f179.google.com (unknown [209.85.167.179]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0223AA0BB5 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:44:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oi1-f179.google.com with SMTP id be32so27084522oib.11 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 13:44:32 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=vwMAqFeWkVEDkXRIwJeBPjadjFq/KwqrX5yuBKnMybI=; b=i+RsYpX+aWAX9OFr+IW5uUN/oBzI0XwqJXgYfoYk3nDCNxGkXgtfPE3h/m7z312+d1 zZgHojRss2kKbDLUgOCY4K5yeoqETyl9N25aR7eaS/gLsTx9H7MX9RBNkp1eU8C/4IXh 4/DW+mBIFOH10J4lppAxWLVjOfcfq18mWTolFuGC7c7tigz0quDuCuNo53sZwwW2oHAL YR1831unuP/WhHE7D18eUCaCyLxHS/rGCiEjW8lpOGJsu4KNh0zmgf5FP7VUFK7uvIbb CFXoawp51DTt1ouTeqZsXA4PlLQp7W0J4EXLie9hklSK0Ha4q/BbN+Sy2e2zSkc/T5Qz vtXg== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=vwMAqFeWkVEDkXRIwJeBPjadjFq/KwqrX5yuBKnMybI=; b=aGarSg3bVc/yQaRkg+bejioScKtN0UIjsg0UOnJFGP9vnu5tFj+SfBRUZ+jvWjElHq D9Dla2vbdu2fwIkmijjU6auZnCX6LBrq8BRmu4d8WGhpJOgZp19KGNZi1P0a11199L/C 7xheZyIQ/lNsKSkA5OLI6NHFnO+qfFK2Pqz776CZaNmQf9CAJahXyJezPepe6sdm5ei1 jfHZBXOsu8Q6Mc6D8bpXPI+CCazoNW9zV8W0WMq4pn6f0FhVtYpMyfTbSHtYdSJQWMga Bm1UQeRzAPffmwHR8SraSw9DQcsy4RxdkqlaZSyloMZ4/pYXoAoKOf9aSq4T6w/H3GDf gZUQ== lWIul2i2MIbv/NX5nc+MAqxN8UrSn+kRIJ6TWDTbQgE= r18mr12476085oij.25.1640641472254; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 13:44:32 -0800 (PST) References: From: Ronnie Day Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:43:56 -0600 To: Shop-Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cable Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8635449957546440145== --00000000000028574405d4279c19 What's the model of the sound bar, and the make and model of the TV? On Mon, Dec 27, 2021 at 11:42 AM Mike Sinclair wrote: > Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, > and it's only 17 degrees today, so.... > > Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas. It has an optical-optical > cable, and my TV has a digital jack. Any good solutions? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com > > --00000000000028574405d4279c19 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What's the=C2=A0model=C2=A0of the sound bar, and the m= ake and model of the TV?

On Mon, Dec 27, 2021 at 11:42 AM Mike Sinclair <= phoenix722@comcast.net> wr= ote:
=20 =20 =20

Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, and it's only 17 degrees today, so....

Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas.=C2=A0 It has an optical-optical cable, and my TV has a digital jack.=C2=A0 Any good solutions?

Mike

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/ronnie.day@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox= .team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com

--00000000000028574405d4279c19-- --===============8635449957546440145== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8635449957546440145==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 27 14:49:44 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F912A0BEB for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:49:44 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi1-f174.google.com (unknown [209.85.167.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D2D2A0AB0 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:47:47 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oi1-f174.google.com with SMTP id j185so27111385oif.8 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 13:47:47 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=hZPX79Tgz6mudGCHvhsPpAdSp1w5aj7fWphugS4zrEE=; b=SV9QBG2G9vDO95Ee+pt4nnUqP71W9vOsGVlrYieZgd8WSZIbmgIa5Fbs8wfqzfl7SH NGOUNh6XDsTScJQfHNCsUw4IGVCMsKcVfkioVYcYYt2Igc77bdzYpNvqBbPQpHYtYoQY jdajx+btToo3zMmjLVul1FdhWhEFbS36IXYSCQ14+TvkgQCgtPCQO2XKSal0egaC/Zpc URDAYU0HVcnK9Uj+ZiuOqWYvyGH0jn5pWt8tEunu8eqZ6gOe+QlEGrCJ5cUEeIpZZewq mwMM1p0YMC4E8RP6rmZAz5sgUQFGB3+c+YxatSSL907jPZ16QQt3GE2xlNwATeC54Z2d Y7lw== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hZPX79Tgz6mudGCHvhsPpAdSp1w5aj7fWphugS4zrEE=; b=I3/jtTFBUFIT05HRcDxET2FmY3FP2KYMXoiJZ3rJ3T4jqGEyIfDNjbB09gsUpNugFa v8Z+GxEVGDYwTzQZl2mTwJl9LNWPayx0mR6dbvkRpPlT13waJlvGgSJa6h31vXt8798I JezkaK8S2RccKQuhqDB6yjG1zJQ+vtGcehkOJE4q5ShYxLu2P3w8KMKyS7G1MTBGkUt4 6JQQXH77SLR9iYIYiTr7QmwgfvM9Np+67Tq4vJdDBS2+9ttzcT0vlNk3JMSXar29WzkU zIdsaNB2ZmCK1GyKxSWdO82U83UQLquPKlJyjC18tWH9ILOSVngdm3u3G5frYPNr07+9 ml3Q== 1hQrB1XgpkErbDTG/hFPeewRAkamSL3mkTMRUdi+qGo= y17mr14511014oiv.32.1640641666811; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 13:47:46 -0800 (PST) References: From: Ronnie Day Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:47:10 -0600 To: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cable Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1737731104277678411== --000000000000c10b2b05d427a775 That model is wireless, Bluetooth? You might not need a cable On Mon, Dec 27, 2021 at 3:43 PM Mike Sinclair wrote: > HW-A450 > On 12/27/2021 1:32 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > > Which model is it? I looked up the lowest-priced one I could find, and it > had HDMI input. I can't imagine not including that on all of them. The > most expensive one I saw had two HDMI inputs but did not mention optical or > digital. > > On Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 12:42 Mike Sinclair wrote: > >> Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know >> all, and it's only 17 degrees today, so.... >> >> Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas. It has an >> optical-optical cable, and my TV has a digital jack. Any good solutions? >> >> Mike >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com > > --000000000000c10b2b05d427a775 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That model is wireless, Bluetooth? You might not need a ca= ble

On Mon, Dec 27, 2021 at 3:43 PM Mike Sinclair <phoenix722@comcast.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

HW-A450

On 12/27/2021 1:32 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:

=20
Which model is it?=C2=A0 I looked up the lowest-pri= ced one I could find, and it had HDMI input.=C2=A0 I can't imagine = not including that on all of them.=C2=A0 The most expensive one I saw h= ad two HDMI inputs but did not mention optical or digital.

On Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 12:42 Mike Sinclair <phoenix722@comcast.net> wrote:

Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, and it's only 17 degrees today, so....

Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas.=C2=A0 It has an optical-optical cable, and my TV has a digital jack.=C2=A0 Any good solutions?

Mike

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/= shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive=

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com=

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/ronnie.day@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox= .team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com

--000000000000c10b2b05d427a775-- --===============1737731104277678411== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1737731104277678411==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 27 14:52:09 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36AB2A0C01 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:52:09 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-lf1-f45.google.com (unknown [209.85.167.45]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 466C0A0BE3 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:52:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-lf1-f45.google.com with SMTP id p13so1038204lfh.13 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 13:52:00 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VhLMbFi7hh2vJ6vo9DTs6kOEkOIg3mFr12iV0+Ont54=; b=SkwWAa57JJdGHmiNwific8zJQi8ku9j3lp8lNuaEnyB+gmLxejrTiIFxOGIYv633cW EY46q+KVmP/MeVTLZvFi/Gr4nzTj5WY4fIs766b21A1D0DZSUHVLMu+8u0XJmAGpRXE8 Uwrm4m9npADde1OvRbk+kEYMCDLpRY2O7f9fFdQGCIG/B9lfm5yTxTXhWDOR+rRoffkl gTVxVubkohQGsnssqU41nJPBn3t1XCxgYZQimlgBqnglJjGKFV+hSds8X0FqidpRueiz lRblFLwdTFKg6Hxd7KezYnNzUM++xu7tik5SKdqoaHcL1sq7HwC/kr6cAIeg5fpRI38U ZPhQ== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VhLMbFi7hh2vJ6vo9DTs6kOEkOIg3mFr12iV0+Ont54=; b=ykGTPmnfcHNoY1ijoiDGRKDKwHtzRzpe/r3Q+R2SjYcvVJStBufNOa3LGXGK/0BOaE iJeaRnotV293t4q+GL3cqUhZia7AKBUyT/FKrG/XANBhbADCjrsqQ0Skdl5D/R3IaUUT 9wsS/WKmskMoydMRLJMMMDd18WCTsbalJkfSezN3jI+56ovos/9OT8YC0cBxqTTtde6N WQ0NCvrd917y19A7aCwy73N/4V4c2CTbklJB+5cgDkff8AgvxMTEhFuEWVaZXXdA+WCt Pxd2/GjSmY2+gCb2pOel1G27PviZrLfc5gKPjuG0mGOHb+KMsPv2or/fe/GEM50bu/PG Xzrg== MttZHGxzQnRN/ILzQ7Ts6JnZ2eGFPC7wsYxVJwE= f20mr2908512lfg.248.1640641919090; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 13:51:59 -0800 (PST) References: From: Jeff Scarbrough Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:51:48 -0500 To: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cable Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0570016867904497752== --000000000000ca835805d427b648 Yep, looks like optical is it. I just checked my 3 year old Sharp/Roku tv, and it has "Digital Optical Output" - looks like a square port with little triangular bulges on the side. Looks like a converter may be in your future. On Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 16:43 Mike Sinclair wrote: > HW-A450 > On 12/27/2021 1:32 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > > Which model is it? I looked up the lowest-priced one I could find, and it > had HDMI input. I can't imagine not including that on all of them. The > most expensive one I saw had two HDMI inputs but did not mention optical or > digital. > > On Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 12:42 Mike Sinclair wrote: > >> Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know >> all, and it's only 17 degrees today, so.... >> >> Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas. It has an >> optical-optical cable, and my TV has a digital jack. Any good solutions? >> >> Mike >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com >> >> --000000000000ca835805d427b648 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yep, looks like optical is it.=C2=A0=C2=A0

I just checked my 3 year old Sharp/Roku tv, = and it has "Digital Optical Output" - looks like a square port wi= th little triangular bulges on the side.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Looks like a converter may be in your future.<= /div>

On Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 16:43 Mike Sinclair <phoenix722@comcast.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

HW-A450

On 12/27/2021 1:32 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:

=20
Which model is it?=C2=A0 I looked up the lowest-pri= ced one I could find, and it had HDMI input.=C2=A0 I can't imagine = not including that on all of them.=C2=A0 The most expensive one I saw h= ad two HDMI inputs but did not mention optical or digital.

On Mon, Dec 27, 2021, 12:42 Mike Sinclair <phoenix722@comcast.net> wrote:

Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, and it's only 17 degrees today, so....

Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas.=C2=A0 It has an optical-optical cable, and my TV has a digital jack.=C2=A0 Any good solutions?

Mike

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.ht= ml
Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net= /pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/= archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplat= e@gmail.com

--000000000000ca835805d427b648-- --===============0570016867904497752== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0570016867904497752==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 27 15:02:32 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EF67A0C11 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:02:32 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from hedgehog.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (unknown [23.83.209.81]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66E73A0BD9 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:02:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60E23821CF0 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 22:02:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a284.dreamhost.com (unknown [127.0.0.6]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 08A4F82248D for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 22:02:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a284.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.114.196.216 (trex/6.4.3); Mon, 27 Dec 2021 22:02:20 +0000 Received: from [10.1.2.175] (c-67-161-16-174.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.161.16.174]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jem@milleredp.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a284.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4JNBV30Ty5z1Ng for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:02:19 -0800 (PST) s=milleredp.com; t=1640642539; bh=nxvqSmRiT1OU/VwboPS85G+qcT4=; h=Date:Subject:To:From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=P9Byy6DwLa/OMmxIZlnMVglCU3OHCURismu2KzA0Y09qwTn+Mhxqj0YavTvcADBNJ mIlovfzBuVVeu1MtVWTtXmUuZLyAv36jlLJTxevzIDtXI8cLcGZhtsFRkiRDYL42vL UogOjkNFzWLjy6bL2ZVI4Bs7FoD4QGJMItoTGKe8= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:02:19 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.4.1 Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: From: John Miller Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cable Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 12/27/2021 1:42 PM, Mike Sinclair wrote: > HW-A450 Yeah, little odd, a quick search says it's wireless or optical, nothing else. No RCA R/L, no HDMI, nothing. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 27 15:44:45 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB380A078B for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:44:44 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-a1p-077725.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.103.146.59]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C245CA045A for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:44:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-a1p-077052.sys.comcast.net ([96.103.145.234]) by resqmta-a1p-077725.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 1y5gnc2Jx7EzW1yjJnxdWY; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 22:44:33 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1640645073; bh=8oTVr1eQpVGzBP5QjOCWXALVcKRknbhunwKt1UgitbM=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From; b=TiSj0EkJPQUqDi2DAPFmJ4DHQSHz8OLaxKD7ck7egw4H990rE7PK35xxbxCn1QM0d j7kGgrdtIjDmPwD/8WJlk9GRkSyB+Nz1PXG+5x2VFhQsDsy/JHoh8tg3sJfffwV+pT 8kVjT2UZOC8SacWDSvIIXzY5tX6kOoGL7RFN4h4i9GjVxJd7fFA5yCg8IzhbwRlOkf /7OHbAlwy2DA8m+rcWCo7SMLHiFwWJjQAJK8KuN6QhZb3ZA+vpCQh7LohGjwjyWQWb KPWszt58tsMbJdGrBkZ/vw/z/nUUHuvPACy7gLcyVLhBipyIECG89SXqxZQ5CXvH3P the+PtL1pPxUA== Received: from [IPV6:2601:601:1501:a870::1a5b] ([IPv6:2601:601:1501:a870::1a5b]) by resomta-a1p-077052.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id 1yivnb86XctV31yiwncqpj; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 22:44:11 +0000 Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:44:09 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.4.1 Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <6842d193-2575-b120-dbf8-b4dfbf64d3fa@milleredp.com> From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cable Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1732014236444418265== boundary="------------30gjex5dUoTCm02mUV9iFfle" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------30gjex5dUoTCm02mUV9iFfle Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, I didn't buy the expensive model......... M On 12/27/2021 2:02 PM, John Miller wrote: > On 12/27/2021 1:42 PM, Mike Sinclair wrote: >> HW-A450 > > Yeah, little odd, a quick search says it's wireless or optical, > nothing else.   No RCA R/L, no HDMI, nothing. > > John. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/phoenix722@comcast.net > --------------30gjex5dUoTCm02mUV9iFfle Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Well, I didn't buy the expensive model.........

M

On 12/27/2021 2:02 PM, John Miller wrote:

On 12/27/2021 1:42 PM, Mike Sinclair wrote:

HW-A450

Yeah, little odd, a quick search says it's wireless or optical, nothing else.   No RCA R/L, no HDMI, nothing.

John.
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/phoenix722@comcast.net

--------------30gjex5dUoTCm02mUV9iFfle-- --===============1732014236444418265== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1732014236444418265==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 27 15:52:28 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31D78A0CCA for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:52:28 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ot1-f42.google.com (unknown [209.85.210.42]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 956F2A0C8E for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:52:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ot1-f42.google.com with SMTP id n17-20020a9d64d1000000b00579cf677301so22181554otl.8 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:52:15 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=BccCapG2HWETO3bEmSgtGiF0f4McGZjt2e+PySir0fw=; b=nuo8sgKGjSbKU37RuWzrsUqsp11Pb/M5cfj7NvRyAcXkB891jdUdyxpi+ehDLn06jo MUb7wVlb3Lk0khvSmaC3kbryI6PJh+R9r3xhICpOWoaxGJtnSKnOYnHdaudQo7S4Wq/i 5xjDa5UzeVAkz27q1j82ljADhsqPGHW3YjfdXEqj2IePWq1Q8cMscNurvrAtRsmZvTdz MD3MXuxUTcAMM/1ZIjw5VXurwWPsHGIa3nOtnI9JDlVjDKRZr5LOLccsOTzHqceawREm q+TWiaIeyEqOF8JtfqYnR3ZBH6agVJlM20r5UCahnlSrTms+YaE/VVFYii364qMoQu1W 6q6A== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=BccCapG2HWETO3bEmSgtGiF0f4McGZjt2e+PySir0fw=; b=RbUdogUGBXb6Tm9AADnhRQbv/Yd2aeUgGQWXCUnpqPXVzS1i51JnNSnmwnVw9AScyQ 8j3s9Qd6uZeivKVC0cJlRb9+7gSdw1LgO+JiK/1fC7s+cX1Cy2A+Uljt3CHBjWFA5GLE hbN4HgF2lR4OEDRD+WRHk4DRTx8tbkxkA5MZ0KH8LvcKwedJahE6ejSmyIiedJwqnuQk BYxNxxajj749gU/RBzL3laFbF43UKHfuWxydF5aQrNGMKChOcXjA/I3MYNucR0PE75u+ RDDVSdO2b7ciscUBFq6uqt7HS/zHvvwk60dRv3T8rYRgQTmEUKT2R6k2Lie9OFZcHve1 s3Uw== YMOJhoNXf5rSrNwfZ4APRf2Xoz/bgz5HcIRRHGMDLZc= Mon, 27 Dec 2021 14:52:14 -0800 (PST) References: <6842d193-2575-b120-dbf8-b4dfbf64d3fa@milleredp.com> From: Ronnie Day Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:51:38 -0600 To: Shop-Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cable Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4356015202337110951== --0000000000004d3f4e05d4288eb2 One A/V trend I've noticed in the past few years that I don't care for is that the TV and accessories manufacturers are cutting back on the number and type of inputs and outputs on TVs especially. At least on the budget models. Last year I bought a couple Samsung 4K TVs and they only have two HDMI inputs. I guess they do it to save money. Older TVs had three, sometimes four. I have a Dish Hopper (connected through a Yamaha A/V receiver), a 4K DVD player and a computer, so I ended up using a TESmart HDMI switch to accomplish what I needed to do. I'm also configuring a 32 TB NAS (Network Attached Storage) to act as a whole house media server, and a central file server. The world has changed a bunch since VCRs came on the scene! On Mon, Dec 27, 2021 at 4:02 PM John Miller wrote: > On 12/27/2021 1:42 PM, Mike Sinclair wrote: > > HW-A450 > > Yeah, little odd, a quick search says it's wireless or optical, nothing > else. No RCA R/L, no HDMI, nothing. > > John. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com > > --0000000000004d3f4e05d4288eb2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One A/V trend I've noticed=C2=A0 in the=C2=A0past few = years that I don't care for is that the TV and accessories=C2=A0manufac= turers=C2=A0are cutting back on the=C2=A0number and type of inputs and outp= uts on TVs especially. At least on the budget models. Last year I bought a = couple Samsung 4K TVs and they only have two HDMI inputs. I guess they do i= t to save money. Older TVs had three, sometimes four. I have a Dish Hopper = (connected through a Yamaha A/V receiver), a 4K DVD player and a computer, = so I ended up using a TESmart HDMI switch to accomplish what I needed to do= . I'm also configuring a 32 TB NAS (Network Attached Storage) to act as= a whole house media server, and a central=C2=A0file server. The world has = changed a bunch since VCRs came on the scene!

=

= On Mon, Dec 27, 2021 at 4:02 PM John Miller <jem@milleredp.com> wrote:
On 12/27/2021 1:42 PM, Mike Si= nclair wrote:
> HW-A450

Yeah, little odd, a quick search says it's wireless or optical, nothing=
else.=C2=A0 =C2=A0No RCA R/L, no HDMI, nothing.

John.
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/ronnie.day@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox= .team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com

--0000000000004d3f4e05d4288eb2-- --===============4356015202337110951== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4356015202337110951==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 27 16:00:50 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAA49A0CDF for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:00:50 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from eastern.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (unknown [23.83.209.55]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AABCA0CC2 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18BA6621D78 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 23:00:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a284.dreamhost.com (unknown [127.0.0.6]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B1333621A18 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 23:00:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a284.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.97.65.167 (trex/6.4.3); Mon, 27 Dec 2021 23:00:40 +0000 Received: from [10.1.2.175] (c-67-161-16-174.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.161.16.174]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jem@milleredp.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a284.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4JNCnM2qzFz1Qp for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:00:39 -0800 (PST) s=milleredp.com; t=1640646039; bh=z39F/SnsD5Twjvtdw0nngUCCjtM=; h=Date:Subject:To:From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=kxwL+3a/vcutu5AuUGrhwSpYIsHj+NFtui8QWiA3GyqWHF50O5/Z4NKNAL9tA4U/r zZ/R8aXJqRbHhmEMHJCHZxzUzCvDKFEfzbL2z8mhMlCOUBIdsod8qTPQoYN4arIusT +vhQtk/qpg+qFwb0l06ai4AMaYUPEz3Hxs1LV3kI= Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:00:40 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.4.1 Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <6842d193-2575-b120-dbf8-b4dfbf64d3fa@milleredp.com> From: John Miller Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cable Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net T24gMTIvMjcvMjAyMSAyOjUxIFBNLCBSb25uaWUgRGF5IHdyb3RlOgo+IE9uZSBBL1YgdHJlbmQg SSd2ZSBub3RpY2VkwqAgaW4gdGhlwqBwYXN0IGZldyB5ZWFycyB0aGF0IEkgZG9uJ3QgY2FyZSBm b3IgCj4gaXMgdGhhdCB0aGUgVFYgYW5kIGFjY2Vzc29yaWVzwqBtYW51ZmFjdHVyZXJzwqBhcmUg Y3V0dGluZyBiYWNrIG9uIAo+IHRoZcKgbnVtYmVyIGFuZCB0eXBlIG9mIGlucHV0cyBhbmQgb3V0 cHV0cyBvbiBUVnMgZXNwZWNpYWxseS4gQXQgbGVhc3Qgb24gCj4gdGhlIGJ1ZGdldCBtb2RlbHMu IExhc3QgeWVhciBJIGJvdWdodCBhIGNvdXBsZSBTYW1zdW5nIDRLIFRWcyBhbmQgdGhleSAKPiBv bmx5IGhhdmUgdHdvIEhETUkgaW5wdXRzLiBJIGd1ZXNzIHRoZXkgZG8gaXQgdG8gc2F2ZSBtb25l eS4KCkVpdGhlcjoKCmEpIFRoZXkgYXNzdW1lIHlvdSBoYXZlIGEgZGV2aWNlIGluIGZyb250IG9m IHRoZSBUViB0aGF0J3MgZG9pbmcgYWxsIHRoZSAKc3dpdGNoaW5nLCBvcgoKYikgdGhleSdyZSBw YXlpbmcgc29tZSBlbnRpdHkgYSBsaWNlbnNlIGZlZSBwZXIgcG9ydC4KCkpvaG4uCl9fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCgpTaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gu dGVhbS5uZXQKRG9uYXRlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L2RvbmF0ZS5odG1sClN1Z2dlc3Rl ZCBhbm51YWwgZG9uYXRpb24gICQxMi45NgpBcmNoaXZlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L3Bp cGVybWFpbC9zaG9wLXRhbGsgaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L2FyY2hpdmUKClVuc3Vic2Ny aWJlL01hbmFnZTogaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L21haWxtYW4vb3B0aW9ucy9zaG9wLXRh bGsvbWhhcmNAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQKCg== From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 27 16:23:23 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E115A0BD8 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:23:23 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi1-f182.google.com (unknown [209.85.167.182]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF3BCA0AC0 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:23:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oi1-f182.google.com with SMTP id v6so27346554oib.13 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:23:13 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Y29uWaGuwbx2d33fqcmn4S5NxnQoZWuxsNlFmII4Yj8=; b=BSED/yArTx4dzc2x/VD37HiYnHCKvyrwN7H73mG6HEkRUYQIa6osM0V4qIbfGJPRyA br12CsfWzJNIBNK9Tr090ha9HcxarmA0BpGpvpzwEWcNQV0lQcqtOG8x7pTvUqovwZW1 yrmZJ7LxAjM66yTK+mAZPK1tEkvCuG+OUVWRixQH6Otmvh2oRVpwByE/ytsAudoy/9WY Sq7W2csb2ZOAkU/8krFtfdb0RkFV6wac/0dV0FrY1ITybhgNXg1yIgEAYy/bl4SCaKu+ MniQVKeDhBWgQ5U5ueD4XV/vH9UvZruGhOtc6vqlC3LnLu+OfSVL+cd3yPNdYIhh9uCw qECA== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Y29uWaGuwbx2d33fqcmn4S5NxnQoZWuxsNlFmII4Yj8=; b=4JSTyxuaW4NRARDJw9/DH0qDHc6LyMh776ePvGRMQpUYtA+KN3Xw229rFROO9WqeZ0 /KiNc9hRPqmCQ7V3d5aJxuEeVIVnFX80jNSVAzF2B9kpSgq4yHORmDxyb8TAQQQqsvoT V379tDO7rZLtnPlQmdWmjkS9XoYX2ryWn75gnDf6LTGv55mJ7LBj3rGvrdBtAc/yQX2+ VtlrJPI84weap0/By0ffRxTKKkQd5JSPHBuhGyb0eX9Pl5AOK7K+LD+8OVJTmXHRCiPn uIyOA/7iGSSznwtf7wd0jBpO4U7LAxvt4fZ48bC6ZpfWr0ruu02N2q2YMr5QstB87JEV g6PQ== QY5omZYwDM6dAVHypSzAal2y0vpe0wFSURo980Y= Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:23:13 -0800 (PST) References: <088b7d86-089e-9c6a-9271-373f3819e7b0@bradakis.com> <1336648283.1966648.1591890880936@mail.yahoo.com> From: Philip Ethier Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 17:23:02 -0600 To: DAVID MASSEY Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tool shed foundation? Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2244301784562236103== --000000000000124d0705d428fd45 Late to the party as usual. Mine is 8 x 10.5. My late nephew-by-marriage assembled while I was at work. Had several guys move it to a place I didn't like for several reasons. Argued with my wife for years about it. Finally the maple-tree roots had forced it so out-of-whack that the doors would not close right. SWMBO finally said I could move it. The place where I wanted it is not level. I built a dead-level treated-wood frame on six precast-concrete post-bases. Topped that with treated plywood. This means that the door is not at ground level. Not good for lawnmower and garden cart. I bought a pair of pickup-truck ramps at Horrible Freight. Built a way to slide them onto cleats below the floor so they would be out of the rain/snow and not cluttering up the inside of the shed. Got a young, smart, buddy to help me disassemble the shed. Screwed the shed floor to the plywood. Buddy helped me reassemble the shed and run power to it. Doors work again. Cantilevered steps work fine for most access. Ramps are easy to pull out of their homes between joists and put in place. Lawnmower and garden cart roll in and out just fine. Bonus is that I can prop the ramps up to get to underside of mower for service. This should last for years. I have "platforms" at both front and back doors of my house built the same way, and they have not moved in decades. ("Decks" need permits and frost footings.) On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 11:44 AM DAVID MASSEY wrote: > We in stalled one of those on a concrete sidewalk and we still had to shim > it up to get the doors to work. These are light, durable and inexpensive > but not very sturdy. You can probably get by with scraping the dirt flat > but over the years and a few rainstorms dirt can flow and you may have to > tug the get the doors open and closed. > > Still might be less work than pouring a slab. > > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark J Bradakis > To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Sent: Thu, Jun 11, 2020 9:32 am > Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool shed foundation? > > First off. I'll inform you that I had Comcast, my service provider, > switch out my old cable modem for a faster, wifi enabled unit. At the > moment I *think* Team Net is still working as usual, no service > disruption. We shall see. > > Okay, now that the man behind the curtain stuff is out of the way I am > planning getting a plastic garden shed. I'm looking at one big enough to > hold the lawnmover, weed whackers, rakes, etc. Basically all the garden > stuff that is taking up valuable space in the garage. I need the room to > actually get some work done on my cars. > > It's only 7 feet wide and 4 feet deep. It comes with a plastic slab as > the floor. What do you think, can I just scrape a space in the dirt > that is fairly level and call it good? Or go all the way and have a > small, say 8 x 5 concrete slab professionally poured as a foundation? > That will likely cost more than the shed! > > mjb. > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey@cs.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7@gmail.com > > -- Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2006 Gulf Stream Conquest Super C, 8.1, White 2017 Ford Fusion SE 2.0 Turbo, Oxford White http://www.mnautox.com --000000000000124d0705d428fd45 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Late to the party as usual.

Mine is 8 x 10.5.=C2=A0 My late nephew-by-marriage assembled while I = was at work.=C2=A0 Had several guys move it to a place I didn't like fo= r=C2=A0several reasons.=C2=A0 Argued with my wife for years about it.
=

Finally the maple-tree roots had forced it so out-of-wh= ack that the doors would not close right.=C2=A0 SWMBO finally said I could = move it.

The place where I wanted it is not level.= =C2=A0 I built a dead-level treated-wood frame on six precast-concrete post= -bases.=C2=A0 Topped that with treated plywood.=C2=A0 This means that the d= oor is not at ground level.=C2=A0 Not good for lawnmower=C2=A0and garden ca= rt.=C2=A0 I bought a pair of pickup-truck ramps at Horrible Freight.=C2=A0 = Built a way to slide them onto cleats below the floor so they would be out = of the rain/snow and not cluttering up the inside of the shed.
Got a young, smart, buddy to help me disassemble the shed.=C2= =A0 Screwed the shed floor to the plywood. Buddy helped me reassemble the s= hed and run power to it.

Doors=C2=A0work again.=C2= =A0 Cantilevered steps work fine for most access.=C2=A0 Ramps are easy to p= ull out of their homes between joists and put in place.=C2=A0 Lawnmower=C2= =A0and garden cart roll in and out just fine.=C2=A0 Bonus is that I can pro= p the ramps up to get to underside of mower for service.

This should last for years.=C2=A0 I have "platforms" at bo= th front and back doors of my house built the same way, and they have not m= oved in decades.=C2=A0 ("Decks" need permits and frost footings.)=

On Thu, J= un 11, 2020 at 11:44 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com> wrote:

We in stalled one of those on a concrete sidewalk an= d we still had to shim it up to get the doors to work.=C2=A0 These are ligh= t, durable and inexpensive but not very sturdy.=C2=A0 You can probably get = by with scraping the dirt flat but over the years and a few rainstorms dirt= can flow and you may have to tug the get the doors open and closed.=

Still might be less work than pouring a slab.<= br>

Dave

-----= Original Message-----
From: Mark J Bradakis <mark@bradakis.com>
To: Shop-talk= @autox.team.net <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thu, Jun 11, 2020 9:32 am
Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool shed foundation?

First off. I'll inform you that I had Comcast, my serv= ice provider,

switch out my old cable modem for a faster, wifi enabled u= nit.=C2=A0 At the

moment I *think* Team Net is still working as usual, no se= rvice

disruption.=C2=A0 We shall see.

Okay, now that the man behind the curtain stuff is out of = the way I am

planning getting a plastic garden shed. I'm looking at= one big enough to

hold the lawnmover, weed whackers, rakes, etc. Basically a= ll the garden

stuff that is taking up valuable space in the garage. I ne= ed the room to

actually get some work done on my cars.

It's only 7 feet wide and 4 feet deep.=C2=A0 It comes = with a plastic slab as

the floor.=C2=A0 What do you think, can I just scrape a sp= ace in the dirt

that is fairly level and call it good?=C2=A0 Or go all the= way and have a

small, say 8 x 5 concrete slab professionally poured as a = foundation?=C2=A0

That will likely cost more than the shed!

mjb.

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
//www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

alk/dave1massey@cs.com" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/opt= ions/shop-talk/dave1massey@cs.com

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/pethier7@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t= eam.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7@gmail.com

--
Phil Ethier We= st Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
1973 Triumph Stag= LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
2004 Suburban= 8.1, Sport Red
2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl
2006 Gulf Stream Conquest Super C, 8.1, White
2= 017 Ford Fusion SE 2.0 Turbo, Oxford White
http://www.mnautox.com
--000000000000124d0705d428fd45-- --===============2244301784562236103== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2244301784562236103==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 27 17:36:20 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD1EDA0CC5 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 17:36:20 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resdmta-a1p-077302.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.103.146.60]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1285A0C13 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 17:36:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-a1p-077251.sys.comcast.net ([96.103.145.233]) by resdmta-a1p-077302.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 20EdnaqOyVHfq20TKn945J; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 00:36:10 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1640651770; bh=FT5DbpcsTYyKs3aadfTlPQtDIkU6lWhH0x//3n8L2zQ=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From; b=aGi0dpCNOR7cqCchWf/TwIM97ORzoIQdVtzfgyt1AU+3XYqFj7syxSqruw5qeQQvm cB6wcj79M7rlP0MnCXrfjz03K1rqZe7gM3c/4X70xQJbVaI7R04oL53RIk4tIM/FNs KjjbUgTunHwt+0oIzMA4SBPVo1zklZwCKU3MPp3/a2YHHx4jvrR1TSs4e2L8nbnuuQ u9bwTOPMeifiH0FHpzXbChrgfxxC12aIPdA8KjzUhW6dchkXD2lKcG9Zwh+AbM2Sjp dms2qU511IGRajOmP8qxdmu41PlVv3gFrEpLrbcYP5nPsnne5Ny0w1flwdFhv8pneh 1nGwrgcoUeDRA== Received: from [IPV6:2601:601:1501:a870::1a5b] ([IPv6:2601:601:1501:a870::1a5b]) by resomta-a1p-077251.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id 20SwnchGXGD2720SxnBty9; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 00:35:48 +0000 Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:35:46 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.4.1 Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <6842d193-2575-b120-dbf8-b4dfbf64d3fa@milleredp.com> From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cable Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============2385213658095831188== boundary="------------2cQ59PegfIOw00H8pyLoxDI1" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2cQ59PegfIOw00H8pyLoxDI1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit And the adaptors are probably sold by the same people who make the TV. Mike On 12/27/2021 3:00 PM, John Miller wrote: > On 12/27/2021 2:51 PM, Ronnie Day wrote: >> One A/V trend I've noticed in the past few years that I don't care >> for is that the TV and accessories manufacturers are cutting back on >> the number and type of inputs and outputs on TVs especially. At least >> on the budget models. Last year I bought a couple Samsung 4K TVs and >> they only have two HDMI inputs. I guess they do it to save money. > > Either: > > a) They assume you have a device in front of the TV that's doing all > the switching, or > > b) they're paying some entity a license fee per port. > > John. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/phoenix722@comcast.net > --------------2cQ59PegfIOw00H8pyLoxDI1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
And the adaptors are probably sold by the same people who make the TV.

Mike

On 12/27/2021 3:00 PM, John Miller wrote:

On 12/27/2021 2:51 PM, Ronnie Day wrote:

One A/V trend I've noticed in the past few years that I don't care for is that the TV and accessories manufacturers are cutting back on the number and type of inputs and outputs on TVs especially. At least on the budget models. Last year I bought a couple Samsung 4K TVs and they only have two HDMI inputs. I guess they do it to save money.

Either:

a) They assume you have a device in front of the TV that's doing all the switching, or

b) they're paying some entity a license fee per port.

John.
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/phoenix722@comcast.net

--------------2cQ59PegfIOw00H8pyLoxDI1-- --===============2385213658095831188== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2385213658095831188==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 27 18:08:52 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16015A0C41 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 18:08:52 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resdmta-h1p-028482.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.102.200.12]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1C2FA0C32 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2021 18:08:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-h1p-027916.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.179.203]) by resdmta-h1p-028482.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 1x6EnlEndfGA120ynniG8I; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 01:08:41 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1640653721; bh=qFjZDZUYNLmf/vo+u850ifMAduqA6EJU73W0zNuuuVc=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:Date: Message-Id:To; b=DXbXm7bc9JPQaBGIR6qfud1ArvT3Schp9QLur08tb7qTN+JdkDAqriRZBCNzuQCh2 jO/Y6k4/bsblb4Eg+qDn44du1bGNVC+0Q1nGgBhLVJ7x631B7zh5Wc/0/pJ9Wj6NnL VEKwVnbGWSnZoVctEoXzsVC2ZDPzKMcKvvayIxmfh5PU5GJsGeA4lYOD5gSCWpqFcK gejxpSdyKRZwR7dVbKSxbYhGjTsB71JBBTM4KmkpvwvgiI9mZOGV310JEorAtWYGtN 8VivqyyMVAPhfG1G9xfORxbvknB7eikuJ1rKaHLbRIf78WJnM5xdcq+epJlWa1v/lc ANpIkjkKr8XtQ== Received: from smtpclient.apple ([IPv6:2607:fb90:f346:5536:cc9f:f6e1:dab:d887]) by resomta-h1p-027916.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id 20yBnLSHo2ane20yInClVn; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 01:08:18 +0000 From: Bill Rabel Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2021 17:08:03 -0800 References: <2b588a4f-cec4-0a52-f682-380b56ad4415@comcast.net> To: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cable Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4415231957051199017== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-D4D3390A-22D1-4D7A-8E5C-584689BB5F2A charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Check out HDTV Supply. Their array of devices and adapters will boggle your m= ind.=20 -Bill Rabel Wet Spot Garage (my British cars) Anacortes To attack a man for talking nonsense is like finding your mortal enemy drown= ing in a swamp and jumping in after him with a knife. =C2=AC Karl Popper > On Dec 27, 2021, at 4:36 PM, Mike Sinclair wrote:= >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > And the adaptors are probably sold by the same people who make the TV. >=20 > Mike >=20 > On 12/27/2021 3:00 PM, John Miller wrote: >> On 12/27/2021 2:51 PM, Ronnie Day wrote:=20 >>> One A/V trend I've noticed in the past few years that I don't care for i= s that the TV and accessories manufacturers are cutting back on the number a= nd type of inputs and outputs on TVs especially. At least on the budget mode= ls. Last year I bought a couple Samsung 4K TVs and they only have two HDMI i= nputs. I guess they do it to save money.=20 >>=20 >> Either:=20 >>=20 >> a) They assume you have a device in front of the TV that's doing all the s= witching, or=20 >>=20 >> b) they're paying some entity a license fee per port.=20 >>=20 >> John.=20 >> _______________________________________________=20 >>=20 >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net=20 >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20 >> Suggested annual donation $12.96=20 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar= chive=20 >>=20 >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/phoen= ix722@comcast.net=20 >>=20 > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc= hive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/brabel= @comcast.net >=20 --Apple-Mail-D4D3390A-22D1-4D7A-8E5C-584689BB5F2A charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Check out HDTV Supply. Their array of devic= es and adapters will boggle your mind.

-Bill Rabel<= /div>
Wet Spot Garage (my British cars)
Anacorte= s

To attack a man for talking nonsense is li= ke finding your mortal enemy drowning in a swamp and jumping in after him wi= th a knife.
=C2=AC Karl Popper
=

On Dec 27, 20= 21, at 4:36 PM, Mike Sinclair <phoenix722@comcast.net> wrote:

<= /blockquote>
=EF=BB=BF =20 =20 =20
And the adaptors are probably sold by the same people who make the TV.

Mike

On 12/27/2021 3:00 PM, John Miller wrote:

On 12/27/2021 2:51 PM, Ronnie Day wrote:

One A/V trend I've noticed in the = ;past few years that I don't care for is that the TV and accessories manufacturers are cutting back on the num= ber and type of inputs and outputs on TVs especially. At least on the budget models. Last year I bought a couple Samsung 4K TVs and they only have two HDMI inputs. I guess they do it to save money.

Either:

a) They assume you have a device in front of the TV that's doing all the switching, or

b) they're paying some entity a license fee per port.

John.
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/o= ptions/shop-talk/phoenix722@comcast.net

=20 _______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.= net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.tea= m.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://au= tox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/brabel@comcast.net

= --Apple-Mail-D4D3390A-22D1-4D7A-8E5C-584689BB5F2A-- --===============4415231957051199017== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4415231957051199017==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Dec 28 07:58:47 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FF99A0D2C for ; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 07:58:47 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from omta012.uswest2.a.cloudfilter.net (unknown [35.164.127.235]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEAFBA0CF7 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 07:58:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from cxr.smtp.a.cloudfilter.net ([10.0.16.145]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id 2AxCnt3pPPWXv2DvwnX3LW; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 14:58:36 +0000 Received: from John-PC.cox.net ([24.254.211.210]) by cmsmtp with ESMTPSA id 2DvtnWAnzbUzi2DvvnvhpS; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 14:58:36 +0000 Authentication-Results: cox.net; auth=pass (LOGIN) smtp.auth=jblair1948@cox.net a=vytuAFhf8Npo5rJvX1IL5Q==:117 a=vytuAFhf8Npo5rJvX1IL5Q==:17 a=nAby2MRRAAAA:8 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=q6SfDYXhAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=iVAur8Dain9WPuw0DX4A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=aav4MXMyVXkA:10 a=4zxjrV59PHAA:10 a=bz_d9vehOyUA:10 a=ZEEhOPJe4w4A:10 a=_0n2ROlQinYA:10 a=mUe2HKXJl0tm7Hu_qAcA:9 a=BKmAAnuee3slQZBo:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=saD5v_jrvBpNtNf23rbL:22 a=qrIFiuKZe2vaD64auk6j:22 a=GGGinmgZRQXmVEG1E52S:22 a=R7nWeq4dleIJhz-CJ_3q:22 Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2021 09:54:37 -0500 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: "John T. Blair" mail.com> References: <088b7d86-089e-9c6a-9271-373f3819e7b0@bradakis.com> <1336648283.1966648.1591890880936@mail.yahoo.com> kxj44FAD0Z4cKnyhXzcQQ4boA4jH1hn4m8XT1PVYTtSvy2jscF8Ix7LGguDcv0bcaveRMKiWFgp1wxRMa2vMVbe7l4HM/0ukoZs= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tool shed foundation? Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0665332667240395182== boundary="=====================_3040007==.ALT" --=====================_3040007==.ALT LIke Phillip, I came late to this party. Back in 2008 I replaced my rusted metal erector set shed with a nice 10x12 vinyl shed, in the same place as the old shed. The old shed was put up on a handfull of cinder block piers and then had the metal floor/foundation frame, and covered with plywood. Eventually, the plywood failed and I fell through the 6". That's when I decided I'm put up the new shed instead of trying to fix the curret one. But there was a problem, that part of my back year has a tendency to end up underwater when we get our spring & summer rains. To take care take care of this, I built a perimeter of garden timbers, 2 high, which I staked in place by drilling some holes through the garden timbers and driving some rebar through and into the ground. Fortunately, my best friend worked in construction driving a dump truck brought over a load of crush & run, which you can get from Home Depot, Lowes, etc. to fill the frameto a depth of about 3". Then covered the crush & run with dirt, and used a tamper, again compliments of my buddy, which can be rented from Home Depot, etc. We covers dirt foundation with a very thick plastic vapor barrier and then used solid cinderblock for the flooring. Once the foundation was complete we started erecting the shed. Here's a short article I did about the project: https://www.gomog.com/BLAIR/other/Shed/shed.html and if you want email me and I can send you the pictures of working on the foundation and putting up the shed. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --=====================_3040007==.ALT
LIke Phillip, I came late to this party. Back in 2008 I replaced my rusted metal
erector set shed with a nice 10x12 vinyl shed, in the same place as the old shed.

The old shed was put up on a handfull of cinder block piers and then had the metal
floor/foundation frame, and covered with plywood. Eventually, the plywood failed
and I fell through the 6". That's when I decided I'm put up the new shed instead
of trying to fix the curret one.

But there was a problem, that part of my back year has a tendency to end up
underwater when we get our spring & summer rains. To take care take care of
this, I built a perimeter of garden timbers, 2 high, which I staked in place by drilling
some holes through the garden timbers and driving some rebar through and into
the ground.

Fortunately, my best friend worked in construction driving a dump truck brought over a load of crush & run, which you can get from Home Depot, Lowes, etc. to
fill the frameto a depth of about 3". Then covered the crush & run with dirt, and
used a tamper, again compliments of my buddy, which can be rented from Home
Depot, etc. We covers dirt foundation with a very thick plastic vapor barrier and
then used solid cinderblock for the flooring. Once the foundation was complete
we started erecting the shed.

Here's a short article I did about the project:

https://www.gomog.com/BLAIR/other/Shed/shed.html

and if you want email me and I can send you the pictures of working on the foundation and putting up the shed.

John

Virus-free. www.avast.com

John T. Blair WA4OHZ     email: jblair1948@cox.net

Va. Beach, Va                  Phone: (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)

     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III

                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan

Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!

If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:

     e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."

     In God We Trust

     Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for

                  oneself; freedom from control or restriction

--=====================_3040007==.ALT-- --===============0665332667240395182== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0665332667240395182==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Dec 28 08:24:12 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1ACDA0D30 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 08:24:11 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-a1p-077723.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.103.146.57]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80470A0BA1 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 08:22:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-a1p-076784.sys.comcast.net ([96.103.145.232]) by resqmta-a1p-077723.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 2CMrnapxQHMdE2EJHnhTP5; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 15:22:43 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1640704963; bh=gptgHug+WmquWdtSJRRJ38Y6o15gHmy+uubLz+G2cGk=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Subject:To:From; b=v8E39AGIL9Uf8Q8GhyS9itxsN8LRiC5a07i0fyrHGXwK4c4fPeAQRTSGaBR8E2WIA sD5n+wJlAzObcCgCEcNq8C1QG+nSMaSIgair7ca3msjuS6JaM4Rqls+tln06KJacaQ KzlOZQgXMQgcyajDpjPv8Caf/5xmKk+SBIySu/r1w3iSHxuOiAIpKyM0uGRqjum8OD ATL1LEGUjqWq5UDl6NxTkpw3UtdFsaccwfYEnESuZ0YH+39dlQdaZEMgURhzAtYyAv mGL2u4jlxZzFIAwlqcIMuQf2JUoJDeZkYGganD98V5EF27QtfhNigs5Hjt2IwSMXYJ Rg3g7FcBundhw== Received: from [IPV6:2601:198:201:3020:1588:4cd:5a0d:f474] ([IPv6:2601:198:201:3020:1588:4cd:5a0d:f474]) by resomta-a1p-076784.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id 2EIunRrKAoTPD2EIvnLzlN; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 15:22:21 +0000 Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2021 10:22:19 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.4.1 Content-Language: en-US To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: From: "Peter J. Thomas" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cable Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============3528869838258434760== boundary="------------hQ0pwISXBmWEjp8RA6AEodkU" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------hQ0pwISXBmWEjp8RA6AEodkU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Any tv/sound bar made in recent years probably has HDMI/ARC. Typically you'd plug a cable box or blu ray player HDMI into the sound bar and then the sound bar HDMI into the TV HDMI/ARC port. On 12/27/2021 12:41 PM, Mike Sinclair wrote: > > Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know > all, and it's only 17 degrees today, so.... > > Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas. It has an > optical-optical cable, and my TV has a digital jack. Any good solutions? > > Mike > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas@comcast.net > --------------hQ0pwISXBmWEjp8RA6AEodkU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Any tv/sound bar made in recent years probably has HDMI/ARC. Typically you'd plug a cable box or blu ray player HDMI into the sound bar and then the sound bar HDMI into the TV HDMI/ARC port.

On 12/27/2021 12:41 PM, Mike Sinclair wrote:

Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, and it's only 17 degrees today, so....

Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas. It has an optical-optical cable, and my TV has a digital jack. Any good solutions?

Mike

_______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

--------------hQ0pwISXBmWEjp8RA6AEodkU-- --===============3528869838258434760== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3528869838258434760==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 29 10:01:31 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8060EA0BC4 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 10:01:31 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-lf1-f45.google.com (unknown [209.85.167.45]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8DCA0BA1 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 09:59:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-lf1-f45.google.com with SMTP id i31so49182305lfv.10 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 08:59:57 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=okuD8SXkuZW/LVFoR0dPO/92eobbBti/MoRo/hJS22c=; b=MoyZP6KWvz083sZvT/jjOCkD7tSRvdcEjXhqh25x653MP8zRdehYe+lbC3EAQKj1PD KPvapwGE+IvGUrBERjHzlYD8b0elc1MtJJuw64XvAonaQPNnV3t46qoPIiukqjV16aps i+P6dGVbywK29Kd3e71wvc3vsvSjshp6/nIG+KUz9dzTibvLqbUOV11vhAnuLYOBaEnI 3BB4dGM1CrVnLpOzAS3yBVIK4gCE5VB9Tc23TUeWORksZGbyUjo0Pnt/M87Yt6boA056 /BLn4nOdGPNGNy8ZVLduSEZJD9kRnnjF8Imp8NVOHf0mHAZ1e8T5f7USkksk1awrJRcc JdNA== d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=okuD8SXkuZW/LVFoR0dPO/92eobbBti/MoRo/hJS22c=; b=RaGtTzKFbihmFyg/DCSjI3n6u6SGCJXhXMUVCjXOs7Gp+/C7X7pK7fk5HnZjpjbfc4 i+aCuZtE66OYpCkdQ9HhIL1Df2IXOrpTBX42sMaqHX7vXdu5ETZdBcdv5nO+H2yCQit6 Fxc+vnbAwfQACjlHQTmo3g1AntVwZcEMw71ryHAjygysobcOKNjnHxR2I/lfGkOkwfn2 VFNPIuwBXxQVmPxEzSxhtz+zml+aB9l4KIdbBDRb7HqzaQc0RqlvoBWY36urZ/qtKz10 I2h5xtKNcQggtcyzf1HuOwXdRTsc+8zqwK6sC65zbeeATUks5G8w36exmwxMiu3E6U3m ZPyQ== 4oz+pnQtygPj+f1MbxyrT+LtJdGeRDvgIv0Ctyd1rTJ1 u7mr23720688lfs.322.1640797195922; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 08:59:55 -0800 (PST) References: <729947b3-6d3f-5833-c6bd-7634c618fd2d@comcast.net> From: Peter Murray Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2021 11:59:40 -0500 To: Shop-Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cable Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============5139376175505548033== --00000000000002efc205d44bde8a The HW-A450 only has two inputs - optical and Bluetooth. If the TV doesn't have optical or Bluetooth outputs, then I'd offer that it might be good to return this model and consider another. This YouTube video has a good comparison of the HW-A450, HW-A550 and HW-A650 units, and the link takes you to the comparison of inputs. -Peter On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 10:24 AM Peter J. Thomas wrote: > Any tv/sound bar made in recent years probably has HDMI/ARC. Typically > you'd plug a cable box or blu ray player HDMI into the sound bar and then > the sound bar HDMI into the TV HDMI/ARC port. > > On 12/27/2021 12:41 PM, Mike Sinclair wrote: > > Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, > and it's only 17 degrees today, so.... > > Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas. It has an optical-optical > cable, and my TV has a digital jack. Any good solutions? > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas@comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray@gmail.com > > --00000000000002efc205d44bde8a Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The HW-A450 only has two inputs - optical and Bluetooth. I= f the TV doesn't have optical or Bluetooth outputs, then I'd offer = that it might be good to return this model and consider another.

This YouTube video= has a good comparison of the HW-A450, HW-A550 and HW-A650 units, and t= he link takes you to the comparison of inputs.

-Pe= ter

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 10:24 AM Peter J. Thomas <pj_thomas@comcast.net> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> =20 =20 =20

Any tv/sound bar made in recent years probably has HDMI/ARC.=C2=A0 Typically you'd plug a cable box or = blu ray player HDMI into the sound bar and then the sound bar HDMI into the TV HDMI/ARC port.

On 12/27/2021 12:41 PM, Mike Sinclair wrote:

=20
Well, I have a hard time tying this to the shop, but you listers know all, and it's only 17 degrees today, so....

Santa brought a Samsung soundbar for Christmas.=C2=A0 It has an optical-optical cable, and my TV has a digital jack.=C2=A0 Any good solutions?

Mike

_______________________________________________ Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net //www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive alk/pj_thomas@comcast.net" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/= options/shop-talk/pj_thomas@comcast.net

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/peterwmurray@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://aut= ox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray@gmail.com

--00000000000002efc205d44bde8a-- --===============5139376175505548033== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5139376175505548033==--