Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Compressor woos

From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 08:32:36 -0500

John, is there a start capacitor on the motor? If so, see if it is leaking or swollen. You should be able to have the motor shop test it for free. If there are two capacitors, one is start & one is run. They will be of different capacities so you can get them back in the correct place. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity

On Aug 10, 2021, at 8:25 AM, John T. Blair <[email-masked]> wrote:

the the compressor, but before I can turn it off, it trips the new
breaker.  I pull the saftey shield and try to turn the flywheel
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From: Jimmie Mayfield <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 10:32:18 -0400

On 8/10/21 09:23, John T. Blair wrote:
>
> compressor went to cut on, but it didn't start.  I could hear a 
> humming.  I
> run over the the compressor, but before I can turn it off, it trips 
> the new
> breaker. 

Try the following:

1. Turn the compressor off
2. Bleed off the pressure in the tank down to, say, 30-40psi
3. Turn the compressor on.

What happens?  Does it start?

Sounds like your unloader valve might be going bad though since you have 
a bonafide 5hp motor, I'm a little surprised it can't power through it.  
What size circuit do you have it on?  30A?

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From: Doug Braun <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 10:33:41 -0400

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Isn't there a centrifugal switch that disconnects the start capacitor as
soon as the motor starts spinning?
Possibly that isn't working properly?

Doug

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 9:25 AM John T. Blair <[email-masked]> wrote:

>
> Anyone have any ideas?  I was thinking that it is either a bad spot on the
> armature, or a bad start capacitor.  If it's the capacitor, why would it
> start
> after I moved the position of the motor a few degrees?
>
> I check with a local shop and they want $200 to put it on their bench!  I
> think that's a little steep.  So I guess I'll open it up and shot gun the
> start
> capacitor.  Is there anything else I should l for while I'm in there?
>
> I do plan on cleaning all the parts while it's apart.  I also don't
> see any place
> to oil the motor.  So I'm assuming that it has bearings that are
> lubricated for
> live.  Or is there something I should do there, oil, grease?
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Isn&#39;t there a centrifugal switch that disconnects=
 the start capacitor as soon as the motor starts spinning?</div><div>Possib=
ly that isn&#39;t working properly?=C2=A0 <br></div><div><br></div><div>Dou=
g<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_a=
ttr">On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 9:25 AM John T. Blair &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jb=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
 rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
Anyone have any ideas?=C2=A0 I was thinking that it is either a bad spot on=
 the<br>
armature, or a bad start capacitor.=C2=A0 If it&#39;s the capacitor, why wo=
uld it start<br>
after I moved the position of the motor a few degrees?<br>
<br>
I check with a local shop and they want $200 to put it on their bench!=C2=
=A0 I<br>
think that&#39;s a little steep.=C2=A0 So I guess I&#39;ll open it up and s=
hot gun the start<br>
capacitor.=C2=A0 Is there anything else I should l for while I&#39;m in the=
re?<br>
<br>
I do plan on cleaning all the parts while it&#39;s apart.=C2=A0 I also don&=
#39;t <br>
see any place<br>
to oil the motor.=C2=A0 So I&#39;m assuming that it has bearings that are l=
ubricated for<br>
live.=C2=A0 Or is there something I should do there, oil, grease?<br><br>
</blockquote></div></div>

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From: Mike Sinclair <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 08:01:52 -0700

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If the motor is "humming" without starting, it is likely unable to 
overcome the existing pressure.  Bleeding down as Jimmie wrote will ease 
the load.  Do you have a long extension cord to the compressor?  This 
will increase the load considerably, and trip the breaker.

Mike

On 8/10/2021 7:32 AM, Jimmie Mayfield wrote:
> Sounds like your unloader valve might be going bad though since you 
> have a bonafide 5hp motor, I'm a little surprised it can't power 
> through it.  What size circuit do you have it on?  30A?
>
>
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>

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    <p><font face="Tahoma">If the motor is "humming" without starting,
        it is likely unable to overcome the existing pressure.  Bleeding
        down as Jimmie wrote will ease the load.  Do you have a long
        extension cord to the compressor?  This will increase the load
        considerably, and trip the breaker.</font></p>
    <p><font face="Tahoma">Mike</font><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/10/2021 7:32 AM, Jimmie Mayfield
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">On
      8/10/21 09:23, John T. Blair wrote:
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <br>
        compressor went to cut on, but it didn't start.  I could hear a
        humming.  I
        <br>
        run over the the compressor, but before I can turn it off, it
        trips the new
        <br>
        breaker. </blockquote>
      <br>
      <br>
      Try the following:
      <br>
      <br>
      1. Turn the compressor off
      <br>
      2. Bleed off the pressure in the tank down to, say, 30-40psi
      <br>
      3. Turn the compressor on.
      <br>
      <br>
      What happens?  Does it start?
      <br>
      <br>
      Sounds like your unloader valve might be going bad though since
      you have a bonafide 5hp motor, I'm a little surprised it can't
      power through it.  What size circuit do you have it on?  30A?
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      _______________________________________________
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      Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a>
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From: Brian and Wendy Warrick <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 15:26:57 +0000

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Take a look at the contacts in the pressure switch. They may be burnt or pi=
tted and both legs of power are not making contact at the same time. I had =
this happen both on an air compressor and a well pump.

Brian
Nampa, ID

________________________________
From: Shop-talk <[email-masked]> on behalf of John T. Bla=
ir <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 7:23 AM
To: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor woos

Hey gang,

I have a Craftsman 5 hp 30 gal compressor that I purchased some time
around '90.  Here are the particulars:

Compressor:  Model 919.176951
                  MO-6436

Motor:        GE Model 5KCR48SR59W
Part #:       C-MO 3013
RPM:           3450
Volt:          230
Amp:         13.1A
Shaft size:   5/8" or 16mm

SCFM @ 40 PSI   11.3
              90 PSI     9.3
           125 PSI        8.0

Cut In  pressure - 100
Cut Out pressure - 125

The other day I was using my nail gun putting up molding around a window
in my family room.  All of a sudden the nail gun quit nailing.  After check=
ing
the nail gun and not finding anything obviously wrong with it, I went down
into the shop to see if the compressor was on or if I had inadvertently
turned it off (old age, I forget what I just did).  Anyway, the switch on t=
he
compressor was in the ON position, but there was only about 40 psi in the
tank.  I pulled the compressor's plug and stuck in the 220V recepticle, and
was getting a reading of 0V on both legs.  So I go to the circuit breaker
panel and reset the breaker, nothing.  So for some reason the breaker has
bit the dirt.  I pull the breaker and head off the hardware store for a new
breaker.  Put it in and the compressor fires back up, and I finish putting =
the
trim on the window.

Well the next day, I needed the compressor so I turned it on, and I was
working around the shop.  The compressor came up to pressure and shut
off.  After using the air to clean off the filter on my shop vac, the
compressor went to cut on, but it didn't start.  I could hear a humming.  I
run over the the compressor, but before I can turn it off, it trips the new
breaker.  I pull the saftey shield and try to turn the flywheel to see if t=
he
compressor/motor has frozen.  It moved easily, so both compressor and
motor were OK.  I turn the compressor back on, and it fires up.  After a fe=
w
cycles, I hear the humming again.  Again, but the time I can get to it, it
has tripped the breaker.  So there is something wrong with the motor.

Anyone have any ideas?  I was thinking that it is either a bad spot on the
armature, or a bad start capacitor.  If it's the capacitor, why would it st=
art
after I moved the position of the motor a few degrees?

I check with a local shop and they want $200 to put it on their bench!  I
think that's a little steep.  So I guess I'll open it up and shot gun the s=
tart
capacitor.  Is there anything else I should l for while I'm in there?

I do plan on cleaning all the parts while it's apart.  I also don't
see any place
to oil the motor.  So I'm assuming that it has bearings that are lubricated=
 for
live.  Or is there something I should do there, oil, grease?

TIA

John

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  [email-masked]
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan<http://www.team.net/morgan>
Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org<http://www.bricklin.org>

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction

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<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Take a look at the contacts in the pressure switch. They may be burnt or pi=
tted and both legs of power are not making contact at the same time. I had =
this happen both on an air compressor and a well pump.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Brian</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Nampa, ID</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Shop-talk &lt;shop-ta=
[email-masked]&gt; on behalf of John T. Blair &lt;jblair1948@cox=
.net&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 10, 2021 7:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> [email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Shop-talk] Compressor woos</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"=
<div class=3D"PlainText"><br>
Hey gang,<br>
<br>
I have a Craftsman 5 hp 30 gal compressor that I purchased some time<br>
around '90.&nbsp; Here are the particulars:<br>
<br>
Compressor:&nbsp; Model 919.176951<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MO-6436<br>
<br>
Motor:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; GE Model 5KCR48SR59W<br>
Part #:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; C-MO 3013<br>
RPM:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3450<br>
Volt:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 230<br>
Amp:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 13.1A<br>
Shaft size:&nbsp;&nbsp; 5/8&quot; or 16mm<br>
<br>
SCFM @ 40 PSI&nbsp;&nbsp; 11.3<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; 90 PSI&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 9.3<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 125 PSI&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 8.0<br>
<br>
Cut In&nbsp; pressure - 100<br>
Cut Out pressure - 125<br>
<br>
The other day I was using my nail gun putting up molding around a window<br=
in my family room.&nbsp; All of a sudden the nail gun quit nailing.&nbsp; A=
fter checking<br>
the nail gun and not finding anything obviously wrong with it, I went down<=
br>
into the shop to see if the compressor was on or if I had inadvertently<br>
turned it off (old age, I forget what I just did).&nbsp; Anyway, the switch=
 on the<br>
compressor was in the ON position, but there was only about 40 psi in the<b=
r>
tank.&nbsp; I pulled the compressor's plug and stuck in the 220V recepticle=
, and<br>
was getting a reading of 0V on both legs.&nbsp; So I go to the circuit brea=
ker<br>
panel and reset the breaker, nothing.&nbsp; So for some reason the breaker =
has<br>
bit the dirt.&nbsp; I pull the breaker and head off the hardware store for =
a new<br>
breaker.&nbsp; Put it in and the compressor fires back up, and I finish put=
ting the<br>
trim on the window.<br>
<br>
Well the next day, I needed the compressor so I turned it on, and I was<br>
working around the shop.&nbsp; The compressor came up to pressure and shut<=
br>
off.&nbsp; After using the air to clean off the filter on my shop vac, the<=
br>
compressor went to cut on, but it didn't start.&nbsp; I could hear a hummin=
g.&nbsp; I<br>
run over the the compressor, but before I can turn it off, it trips the new=
<br>
breaker.&nbsp; I pull the saftey shield and try to turn the flywheel to see=
 if the<br>
compressor/motor has frozen.&nbsp; It moved easily, so both compressor and<=
br>
motor were OK.&nbsp; I turn the compressor back on, and it fires up.&nbsp; =
After a few<br>
cycles, I hear the humming again.&nbsp; Again, but the time I can get to it=
, it<br>
has tripped the breaker.&nbsp; So there is something wrong with the motor.<=
br>
<br>
Anyone have any ideas?&nbsp; I was thinking that it is either a bad spot on=
 the<br>
armature, or a bad start capacitor.&nbsp; If it's the capacitor, why would =
it start<br>
after I moved the position of the motor a few degrees?<br>
<br>
I check with a local shop and they want $200 to put it on their bench!&nbsp=
; I<br>
think that's a little steep.&nbsp; So I guess I'll open it up and shot gun =
the start<br>
capacitor.&nbsp; Is there anything else I should l for while I'm in there?<=
br>
<br>
I do plan on cleaning all the parts while it's apart.&nbsp; I also don't <b=
r>
see any place<br>
to oil the motor.&nbsp; So I'm assuming that it has bearings that are lubri=
cated for<br>
live.&nbsp; Or is there something I should do there, oil, grease?<br>
<br>
TIA<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
John T. Blair&nbsp; WA4OHZ&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email:&nbsp; jblair1948@=
cox.net<br>
Va. Beach, Va&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Phone:&nbsp; (757) 495-8229<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 48 TR1800&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; 48 #4 Midget&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)=
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 77=
 Spitfire&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 71 Saab Sonett III<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 65 Rambler =
Classic<br>
<br>
Morgan:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/morgan">www.team.n=
et/morgan</a><br>
Bricklin:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://www.bricklin.org">www.b=
ricklin.org</a><br>
<br>
If you can read this&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Thank a teacher!<br>
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!<br>
<br>
&nbsp;From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; e pluribus Unum, &quot;from many, one.&quot;=
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In God We Trust<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Liberty - the&nbsp; power&nbsp; of&nbsp; cho=
osing,&nbsp; thinking,&nbsp; and&nbsp; acting&nbsp; for<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; oneself; freedom&nbsp; from&nbsp; control=
&nbsp; or&nbsp; restriction<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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From: "John T. Blair" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 14:07:42 -0400

Thanks to everyone that has replied with ideas and suggestions.
Unfrounately, I didn't post this problem until after I had pulled the motor.
So I think I'm going to try and open it up and see about getting a
replacement capactor, trying to find & clean the centrifgual switch and
cleaning up the motor.

I can't say now that I remember hearing the unloader valve firing.  So the
compressor trying to start agains a high head pressure is a possibility.  After
I replace the cap. I'll replace the motor and test it and pay attention to the
unloading of the pressure when the motor cuts off.  I know I've heard it in
the past, I just can't say for sure that it is doing that now. :(

Thanks again, I'll keep you all informed.

John

Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan
Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org

[email-masked]

---

From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 15:36:17 -0400

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--0000000000003f930c05c9399e46

I like this one.  A squirt of WD-40 should loosen it up.  My table saw does
this occasionally, but it's only 66 years old

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 10:41 Doug Braun <[email-masked]> wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

--0000000000003f930c05c9399e46
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">I like this one.=C2=A0 A squirt of WD-40 should loosen it=
 up.=C2=A0 My table saw does this occasionally, but it&#39;s only 66 years =
old=C2=A0</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gma=
il_attr">On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 10:41 Doug Braun &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:doug@=
dougbraun.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Isn&#39;t there a centrifugal switch th=
at disconnects the start capacitor as soon as the motor starts spinning?</d=
iv><div>Possibly that isn&#39;t working properly?=C2=A0 <br></div><div><br>=
</div><div>Doug<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 9:25 AM John T. Blair &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">jblair=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex"><br>
Anyone have any ideas?=C2=A0 I was thinking that it is either a bad spot on=
 the<br>
armature, or a bad start capacitor.=C2=A0 If it&#39;s the capacitor, why wo=
uld it start<br>
after I moved the position of the motor a few degrees?<br>
<br>
I check with a local shop and they want $200 to put it on their bench!=C2=
=A0 I<br>
think that&#39;s a little steep.=C2=A0 So I guess I&#39;ll open it up and s=
hot gun the start<br>
capacitor.=C2=A0 Is there anything else I should l for while I&#39;m in the=
re?<br>
<br>
I do plan on cleaning all the parts while it&#39;s apart.=C2=A0 I also don&=
#39;t <br>
see any place<br>
to oil the motor.=C2=A0 So I&#39;m assuming that it has bearings that are l=
ubricated for<br>
live.=C2=A0 Or is there something I should do there, oil, grease?<br><br>
</blockquote></div></div>
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