Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck

From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 07:49:10 -0500

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John, here=E2=80=99s a little electrical theory for you, hope it helps.=20

Resistance measurements on a vehicle are not generally useful for circuits t=
hat handle higher currents but works better for circuits that deal with sign=
als. It is useful just as a open/short diagnosis. Here=E2=80=99s an example.=
 A wire carrying 40A current with 1V drop will have a resistance of .025 ohm=
, much too low to be a real indication. Voltage, either to ground (the same g=
round point for all measurements) or voltage drop across a wire is the best w=
ay to find bad connections or undersized wires, your readings will not be ne=
ar the end of the range or the meter. That=E2=80=99s why I recommended the s=
eries of voltage readings all along the wire from the alternator to the batt=
ery.=20

This approach also works well for grounds. When working with grounds it is b=
est to use a single ground reference point or do voltage drops across each g=
round wire.=20

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne=20
We support Habitat for Humanity

On Aug 9, 2021, at 3:10 PM, john niolon <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF Pat, while the battery was out I checked resistance on all battery=
, starter and ground cables... all read from .003 to .004 ohm resistance end=
 to end
 also rechecked the charging voltage again with engine at 1200 rpm  14.6 vol=
ts... as I increased the rpm the voltage flickered down to 14.3 - 14.4 to  t=
hen
back up to 14.6 as rpm decreased back to 1200
=20
did this both with VOM leads on battery terminals AND alternator terminals
=20
j
=20
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
To: john niolon <[email-masked]>
Cc: shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Sent: 8/9/2021 1:30:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
John,
Check charging voltage @ alternator post, alternator terminal, terminal on o=
ther end of 1/0 cable, post that terminal connects to. If you can get to the=
 conductor in the 1/0 cable, get that too. That should be enough to find the=
 problem.=20

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne=20
We support Habitat for Humanity

On Aug 9, 2021, at 1:02 PM, john niolon <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
sorry for slow response... helping daughter and sil move...priorities!!!
=20
Monday a.m. report

fresh charge on battery 40 amp for 30 minutes on saturday trickle charger si=
nce then .. battery voltage 13.4 this a.m. checked with two different meters=

hooked up H.F. 500 amp load tester, voltage reading same as VOM at 13.4
voltage at frame rail terminal also 13.4

battery has 800 CCA capacity
started test... over 15 second test the battery slowly dropped to 320 amps a=
nd voltage read 10.8 (still in the green scale)
stopped test at 15 seconds and two minutes later battery was back up to 12.7=

next step will be check alternator output at battery and terminal point

ok... started truck... engine at 1200 rpm
meter on alternator o/p- voltage is 14.6
meter on battery voltage is 13.5

hmmm...1.1 volt drop in 4' of 1/0 cable....that don't sound right
need to measure resistance of cable I guess...

as an aside... checked voltaged between frame ground and the case of the alt=
ernator... 0.0001 volts

I also took battery back to Wal mart and Quintella checked it...  battery is=
 good based on her years of
battery experience
=20
=20
----- Original Message -----
From: john niolon <[email-masked]>
To: shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Sent: 8/6/2021 8:58:12 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
jeff=E2=80=A6.     regular led acid battery ??     Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA =
 regular Walmart battery
=20
When it died, did any of the electrical items still work?  Lights, etc.?  wh=
en it first occurred ,, when I tried to restart, .. starter just clicked and=
 I remember the a/c fan still blowing
=20
=20
Donald...  How large is the cable from the alternator to the battery?   feed=
 from battery to alternator is #4 wire
=20
Dave... I was thinking a dirty battery clamp.    battery clamps are new this=
 year and clean, no corrosion on connections
=20
John...   How is the volt meter in your truck grounded, to the frame or to t=
he motor?    voltmeter in dash is grounded to dash frame  voltmeter used to c=
heck under hood is grounded to frame not engine.  I'll go back and check gro=
und connections. Alternator has a ground terminal of it's own... it's #10 wi=
re grounded to the frame and of course the alternator is grounded through it=
's mount.
=20
Pat...  what is the relationship between the frame terminal & the rest of th=
e electrical system?  Terminal on the frame rail is fed by a 4' piece of  #4=
 wire from the i/p solenoid lug where the cable from the battery is connecte=
d to the solenoid.
=20
Jimmie..    What's the voltage at the terminal with those accessories 'on' b=
ut the engine 'off'    hmmm ?? don't remember checking that, =E2=80=A6  I'll=
 do that
 How big is the alternator?    100 amp single wire from CVF racing
=20
ya'll have given me lots to check and recheck and some I haven't thought of.=
..   going back through my diagnostics and check connections too.  I bought a=
 500 amp load tester yesterday and will put sufficient load on the battery. =
 Battery is under the cab and I have to lower it to check it out and with th=
e low truck, I have to raise truck on jackstands.. silly me, I thought batte=
ry would be a low maintenance item ...duh.   so checking at a shop somewhere=
 is a very large pain.
=20
points I'm considering.... larger ground wires from frame to engine.... alte=
rnator to frame and check resistance from solenoid lug to the terminal on th=
e frame...   the saga continues
=20
thanks for all the replies and points to check..   you guys are the best
=20
john
=20
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve

[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">John, here=E2=80=99s a little electrical th=
eory for you, hope it helps.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>Resistance measurement=
s on a vehicle are not generally useful for circuits that handle higher curr=
ents but works better for circuits that deal with signals. It is useful just=
 as a open/short diagnosis. Here=E2=80=99s an example. A wire carrying 40A c=
urrent with 1V drop will have a resistance of .025 ohm, much too low to be a=
 real indication. Voltage, either to ground (the same ground point for all m=
easurements) or voltage drop across a wire is the best way to find bad conne=
ctions or undersized wires, your readings will not be near the end of the ra=
nge or the meter. That=E2=80=99s why I recommended the series of voltage rea=
dings all along the wire from the alternator to the battery.&nbsp;</div><div=
><br></div><div>This approach also works well for grounds. When working with=
 grounds it is best to use a single ground reference point or do voltage dro=
ps across each ground wire.&nbsp;<br><br>Peace,</div><div>Pat</div><div><br>=
<div dir=3D"ltr">Pat Horne&nbsp;<div>We support Habitat for Humanity</div><d=
iv><br></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Aug 9, 2021, at 3:10 PM, john nio=
lon &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

<meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001">
Pat, while the battery was out I checked resistance on all battery, starter a=
nd ground cables... all read from .003 to .004 ohm resistance end to end
<div>&nbsp;also rechecked the charging voltage again with engine at 1200 rpm=
&nbsp; 14.6 volts... as I increased the rpm the voltage flickered down to 14=
.3 - 14.4 to&nbsp; then</div>
<div>back up to 14.6 as rpm decreased back to 1200</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>did this both with VOM leads on battery terminals AND alternator termin=
als</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>j</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0.=
5em; BORDER-LEFT: #c7e5ff 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.5em; PADDING-RIGH=
T: 0px">
<div><b>----- Original Message -----</b></div>
<div><b>From:</b> Pat Horne &lt;<a>[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div>
<div><b>To:</b> john niolon &lt;<a>[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> shop-talk &lt;<a>[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> 8/9/2021 1:30:34 PM</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck</div>
<hr style=3D"BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 1px; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none=
; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; COLOR: #ccc; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BACKGRO=
UND-COLOR: #ccc">
John,
<div>Check charging voltage @ alternator post, alternator terminal, terminal=
 on other end of 1/0 cable, post that terminal connects to. If you can get t=
o the conductor in the 1/0 cable, get that too. That should be enough to fin=
d the problem.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Peace,</div>
<div>Pat</div>
<div><br><br>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Pat Horne&nbsp;
<div>We support Habitat for Humanity</div>
<div><br></div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Aug 9, 2021, at 1:02 PM, john niolon &lt;jniolon@att=
.net&gt; wrote:<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF=20
<meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001">
<div>
<div id=3D"post_message_20009636" class=3D"nolinks" style=3D"BOX-SIZING: bor=
der-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, geneva, lucida, &quot;lucida=
 grande&quot;, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACI=
NG: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDI=
NG-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-STYLE: normal; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORP=
HANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; MARGIN: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px;=
 BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligature=
s: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-d=
ecoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoratio=
n-color: initial">sorry for slow response... helping daughter and sil move..=
.priorities!!!</div>
<div class=3D"nolinks" style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FON=
T-FAMILY: Verdana, geneva, lucida, &quot;lucida grande&quot;, arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none=
; FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-STYLE: n=
ormal; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; MARGIN: 0=
px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,25=
5,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps:=
 normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial;=
 text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial">&nbsp;</div=
<div class=3D"nolinks" style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FON=
T-FAMILY: Verdana, geneva, lucida, &quot;lucida grande&quot;, arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none=
; FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-STYLE: n=
ormal; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; MARGIN: 0=
px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,25=
5,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps:=
 normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial;=
 text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial">Monday a.m.=
 report<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-=
box">fresh charge on battery 40 amp for 30 minutes on saturday trickle charg=
er since then .. battery voltage 13.4 this a.m. checked with two different m=
eters<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-bo=
x"><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">hooked up H.F. 500 amp load tester, v=
oltage reading same as VOM at 13.4<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">volta=
ge at frame rail terminal also 13.4<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br s=
tyle=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">battery has 800 CCA capacity<br style=3D"BOX=
-SIZING: border-box">started test... over 15 second test the battery slowly d=
ropped to 320 amps and voltage read 10.8 (still in the green scale)<br style=
=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">stopped test at 15 seconds and two minutes later=
 battery was back up to 12.7<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br style=3D=
"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><picture id=3D=
"inline1" style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box; MAX-WIDTH: 100%; DISPLAY: inline-=
block" rel=3D"Photoswipe"><source style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box" media=3D"=
(max-width: 580px)" srcset=3D"https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.c=
om-vbulletin/360x270/voltsa_1305c5989a3f57a2ffce9e2b49c805e0eed9be69.jpg" da=
ta-srcset=3D""><source style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box" media=3D"(max-width:=
 1000px)" srcset=3D"https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbullet=
in/360x270/voltsa_1305c5989a3f57a2ffce9e2b49c805e0eed9be69.jpg" data-srcset=3D=
""><source style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box" srcset=3D"https://cimg8.ibsrv.ne=
t/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/360x270/voltsa_1305c5989a3f57a2ffce9e2b=
49c805e0eed9be69.jpg" data-srcset=3D""><img class=3D"post_inline_image" styl=
e=3D"BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BOX-SIZING: border-box; MAX-WIDTH: 100%; BORDER=
-LEFT-STYLE: none; HEIGHT: auto; VERTICAL-ALIGN: middle; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE=
: none; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; DISPLAY: inline-block" alt=3D"" src=3D"htt=
ps://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/360x270/voltsa_1305c=
5989a3f57a2ffce9e2b49c805e0eed9be69.jpg" data-size=3D"360x270" data-src=3D""=
 loading=3D"lazy" data-unique-identifier=3D""></picture><br style=3D"BOX-SIZ=
ING: border-box"><picture id=3D"inline2" style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box; MA=
bsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/360x270/amps1_d85e8a6155a607aae4=
2c4fe2bbfde35778478032.jpg" data-srcset=3D""><source style=3D"BOX-SIZING: bo=
rder-box" media=3D"(max-width: 1000px)" srcset=3D"https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gi=
mg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/360x270/amps1_d85e8a6155a607aae42c4fe2bbfde=
35778478032.jpg" data-srcset=3D""><source style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box" s=
rcset=3D"https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/360x270/=
amps1_d85e8a6155a607aae42c4fe2bbfde35778478032.jpg" data-srcset=3D""><img cl=
ass=3D"post_inline_image" style=3D"BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BOX-SIZING: borde=
r-box; MAX-WIDTH: 100%; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; HEIGHT: auto; VERTICAL-ALIG=
N: middle; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; DISPLAY: inl=
ine-block" alt=3D"" src=3D"https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-=
vbulletin/360x270/amps1_d85e8a6155a607aae42c4fe2bbfde35778478032.jpg" data-s=
ize=3D"360x270" data-src=3D"" loading=3D"lazy" data-unique-identifier=3D""><=
/picture><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: borde=
r-box">next step will be check alternator output at battery and terminal poi=
nt<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">=
ok... started truck... engine at 1200 rpm<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box=
">meter on alternator o/p- voltage is 14.6<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-bo=
x">meter on battery voltage is 13.5<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br s=
tyle=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">hmmm...1.1 volt drop in 4' of 1/0 cable....t=
hat don't sound right<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">need to measure re=
sistance of cable I guess...<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br style=3D=
"BOX-SIZING: border-box">as an aside... checked voltaged between frame groun=
d and the case of the alternator... 0.0001 volts<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: bor=
der-box"><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">I also took battery back to Wa=
l mart and Quintella checked it...&nbsp; battery is good based on her years o=
f</div>
<div class=3D"nolinks" style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FON=
T-FAMILY: Verdana, geneva, lucida, &quot;lucida grande&quot;, arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none=
; FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-STYLE: n=
ormal; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; MARGIN: 0=
px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,25=
5,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps:=
 normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial;=
 text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial">battery exp=
erience<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"></div>
<div style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana,=
 geneva, lucida, &quot;lucida grande&quot;, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; WH=
ITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: 400=
; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-STYLE: normal; PADDING-TOP=
: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; MARGIN: 0px; LETTER-SPACING=
: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDEN=
T: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-t=
ext-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-s=
tyle: initial; text-decoration-color: initial">&nbsp;</div></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0.=
5em; BORDER-LEFT: #c7e5ff 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.5em; PADDING-RIGH=
T: 0px">
<div><b>----- Original Message -----</b></div>
<div><b>From:</b> john niolon &lt;<a>[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div>
<div><b>To:</b> shop-talk &lt;<a>[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> 8/6/2021 8:58:12 AM</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck</div>
<hr style=3D"BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 1px; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none=
; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; COLOR: #ccc; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BACKGRO=
UND-COLOR: #ccc">

<meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001">
<div>jeff=E2=80=A6.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; regular led acid battery ??&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <font color=3D"#ff0000">Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA&nbsp; r=
egular Walmart battery</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>When it died, did any of the electrical items still work?&nbsp; Lights,=
 etc.?&nbsp; <font color=3D"#ff0000">when it first occurred ,, when I tried t=
o restart,&nbsp;.. starter just clicked and I remember the a/c fan still blo=
wing</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#ff0000"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font color=3D"#ff0000"></font>&nbsp;</div><font color=3D"#ff0000">
<div><font color=3D"#000000">Donald...&nbsp; How large is the cable from the=
 alternator to the battery?&nbsp;&nbsp; </font><font color=3D"#ff0000">feed f=
rom battery to alternator is #4 wire<br></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#ff0000"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font color=3D"#ff0000"><font color=3D"#000000">Dave... I was thinking a=
 dirty battery clamp.</font>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; battery clamps are new this y=
ear and clean, no corrosion on connections</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font color=3D"#ff0000"><font color=3D"#000000">John...&nbsp;&nbsp; How=
 is the volt meter in your truck grounded, to the frame or to the motor?</fo=
nt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; voltmeter in dash is grounded to dash frame&nbsp; volt=
meter used to check under hood is grounded to frame not engine.&nbsp; I'll g=
o back and check ground connections. Alternator has a ground terminal of it'=
s own... it's #10 wire grounded to the frame&nbsp;and of course the alternat=
or is grounded through it's mount.</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000">Pat...&nbsp; what is the relationship between t=
he frame terminal &amp; the rest of the electrical system?&nbsp; </font>Term=
inal on the frame rail is fed by a 4' piece of &nbsp;#4 wire from the i/p so=
lenoid lug where the cable from the battery is connected to the solenoid.</d=
iv>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000">Jimmie..&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; What's the voltage a=
t the terminal with those accessories 'on' but the engine 'off'</font>&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; hmmm ?? don't remember checking that, =E2=80=A6&nbsp; I'll do t=
hat</div>
<div>&nbsp;<font color=3D"#000000">How big is the alternator?</font>&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; 100 amp single wire from CVF racing</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000">ya'll have given me lots to check and recheck a=
nd some I haven't thought of...&nbsp;&nbsp; going back through my diagnostic=
s and check connections too.&nbsp; I bought a 500 amp load tester yesterday a=
nd will put sufficient load on the battery.&nbsp; Battery is under the cab a=
nd I have to lower it to check it out and with the low truck, I have to rais=
e truck on jackstands.. silly me, I thought battery would be a low maintenan=
ce item ...duh.&nbsp;&nbsp; so checking at a shop somewhere is a very large p=
ain.</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000">points I'm considering.... larger ground wires f=
rom frame to engine.... alternator to frame and check resistance from soleno=
id lug to the terminal on the frame...&nbsp;&nbsp; the saga continues</font>=
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000">thanks for all the replies and points to check.=
.&nbsp;&nbsp; you guys are the best</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000">john</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div></font></blockquote><span>_________________________________=
______________</span><br><span></span><br><span>[email-masked]</sp=
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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

--===============0003291229274675443==--

---

From: "john niolon" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 16:33:14 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format

--===============8914787316588993180==

This is a multi-part message in MIME format

--6EuL4dFWn0qdsT=_znni7i2Xj5cBHEjZaY
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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well, that's three days or so I'll never see again... started over on =
the=20
diagnosis... A fellow ford guy in Canada mentioned something about the=
=20
alternator exciter wire being used when alternator was larger than 80 =
amps. I=20
didn't use one... I called EZ-wire tech guy and we discussed it. He as=
sured me that with a one wire unit the exciter wire wasn't=20
used (it gets itself excited ) As we talked he asked what my battery v=
oltage=20
was when the alternator was above 1500 rpm and I told him in the 13 vo=
lt range.=20
Then he asked what my alternator voltage was and it was 14.6 or so... =
He said=20
just to check it and bypass all the wiring to run a wire straight from=
 the=20
alternator to the battery +... I asked him if it cured the problem sho=
uld I=20
just leave it in place... he said sure , that way you are getting char=
ging=20
voltage straight from alternator

So I built a #4 cable and installed it from alternator to battery +...=
 guess=20
what ??? 14.6 at alternator and 14.6 at the battery... All this high t=
ech=20
diagnosis... was just an exercise... At least I know that all my conne=
ctions=20
and terminals and electrical stuff is good and well grounded and bless=
ed ., I=20
think=20
I'm gonna call him back tomorrow and get him to explain EX-wires reaso=
n for not having that direct charge wire in the first place. Thanks  f=
or sticking with me trying to figure this out and for all the informat=
ion, ideas, suggestion, CWAGs and un mentioned comments about how I ca=
n be so dumb and yet so good looking at the same time...

john

John, here=E2=80=99s a little electrical theory for you, hope it helps=
=2E=20

Resistance measurements on a vehicle are not generally useful for circ=
uits that handle higher currents but works better for circuits that de=
al with signals. It is useful just as a open/short diagnosis. Here=E2=80=
=99s an example. A wire carrying 40A current with 1V drop will have a =
resistance of .025 ohm, much too low to be a real indication. Voltage,=
 either to ground (the same ground point for all measurements) or volt=
age drop across a wire is the best way to find bad connections or unde=
rsized wires, your readings will not be near the end of the range or t=
he meter. That=E2=80=99s why I recommended the series of voltage readi=
ngs all along the wire from the alternator to the battery.=20

This approach also works well for grounds. When working with grounds i=
t is best to use a single ground reference point or do voltage drops a=
cross each ground wire.=20

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne=20

=EF=BB=BF Pat, while the battery was out I checked resistance on all b=
attery, starter and ground cables... all read from .003 to .004 ohm re=
sistance end to end=20
 also rechecked the charging voltage again with engine at 1200 rpm  14=
=2E6 volts... as I increased the rpm the voltage flickered down to 14.=
3 - 14.4 to  then
back up to 14.6 as rpm decreased back to 1200

did this both with VOM leads on battery terminals AND alternator termi=
nals

j

----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
To: john niolon <[email-masked]>
Cc: shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Sent: 8/9/2021 1:30:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck

John,=20
Check charging voltage @ alternator post, alternator terminal, termina=
l on other end of 1/0 cable, post that terminal connects to. If you ca=
n get to the conductor in the 1/0 cable, get that too. That should be =
enough to find the problem.=20

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne =20

=EF=BB=BF=20
sorry for slow response... helping daughter and sil move...priorities!=
!!

Monday a.m. report

fresh charge on battery 40 amp for 30 minutes on saturday trickle char=
ger since then .. battery voltage 13.4 this a.m. checked with two diff=
erent meters

hooked up H.F. 500 amp load tester, voltage reading same as VOM at 13.=
4
voltage at frame rail terminal also 13.4

battery has 800 CCA capacity
started test... over 15 second test the battery slowly dropped to 320 =
amps and voltage read 10.8 (still in the green scale)
stopped test at 15 seconds and two minutes later battery was back up t=
o 12.7

next step will be check alternator output at battery and terminal poin=
t

hmmm...1.1 volt drop in 4'=20
of 1/0 cable....that=20
don't sound right
need to measure resistance of cable I guess...

as an aside... checked voltaged between frame ground and the case of t=
he alternator... 0.0001 volts

I also took battery back to Wal mart and Quintella checked it...  batt=
ery is good based on her years of
battery experience

----- Original Message -----
From: john niolon <[email-masked]>
To: shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Sent: 8/6/2021 8:58:12 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck

jeff=E2=80=A6.     regular led acid battery ??     Everstart Maxx27 80=
0 CCA  regular Walmart battery

When it died, did any of the electrical items still work?  Lights, etc=
=2E?  when it first occurred ,, when I tried to restart, .. starter ju=
st clicked and I remember the a/c fan still blowing

Donald...  How large is the cable from the alternator to the battery? =
  feed from battery to alternator is #4 wire

Dave... I was thinking a dirty battery clamp.    battery clamps are ne=
w this year and clean, no corrosion on connections

John...   How is the volt meter in your truck grounded, to the frame o=
r to the motor?    voltmeter in dash is grounded to dash frame  voltme=
ter used to check under hood is grounded to frame not engine.  I'll=20=

go back and check ground connections. Alternator has a ground terminal=
 of=20
it's own... it's #10 wire grounded to the frame and of course the alte=
rnator is=20
grounded through=20
it's mount.

Pat...  what is the relationship between the frame terminal & the rest=
 of the electrical system?  Terminal on the frame rail is fed by a 4'=20=

piece of  #4 wire from the i/p solenoid lug where the cable from the b=
attery is=20
connected to the solenoid.

Jimmie..   =20
What's the voltage at the terminal with those accessories 'on' but the=
 engine 'off'    hmmm ?? don't=20
remember checking that, =E2=80=A6 =20
I'll do that
 How big is the alternator?    100 amp single wire from CVF racing

ya'll=20
have given me lots to check and recheck and some I=20
haven't thought of...   going back through my diagnostics and check co=
nnections too.  I bought a 500 amp load tester yesterday and will put =
sufficient load on the battery.  Battery is under the cab and I have t=
o lower it to check it out and with the low truck, I have to raise tru=
ck on jackstands.. silly me, I thought battery would be a low maintena=
nce item ...duh.   so checking at a shop somewhere is a very large pai=
n.

points I'm=20
considering.... larger ground wires from frame to engine.... alternato=
r to=20
frame and check resistance from solenoid lug to the terminal on the fr=
ame...  =20
the saga continues

thanks for all the replies and points to check..   you guys are the be=
st

john

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net=
/archive

talk/[email-masked]

--6EuL4dFWn0qdsT=_znni7i2Xj5cBHEjZaY
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

<HTML><HEAD>
<STYLE type=3Dtext/css> body { margin:0.7em; } body.OECFntDef, body.OE=
CFntDef div { font-family:"Segoe UI",Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:12pt; }</STYLE>

<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001"></HEAD>
<BODY spellcheck=3Dtrue class=3DOECFntDef>
<DIV>
<DIV id=3Dpost_message_20015028 style=3D'BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-=
SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, geneva, lucida, "lucida grande", ari=
al, helvetica, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEX=
T-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0px; FONT-STYLE: normal; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORP=
HANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; MARGIN: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; PADDING-RIGHT=
: 0px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-vari=
ant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-=
width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style:=
 initial; text-decoration-color: initial'><FONT size=3D3>well, that's =
three days or so I'll never see again... started over on the diagnosis=
=2E.. A fellow ford guy in Canada&nbsp;mentioned something about the a=
lternator exciter wire being used when alternator was larger than 80 a=
mps. I didn't use one... I called EZ-wire tech guy and we discussed it=
=2E He assured me that with a one wire unit the exciter wire wasn't us=
ed (it gets itself excited<SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN><IMG title=3D"Laughing Gr=
in" class=3Dinlineimg style=3D"BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BOX-SIZING: bor=
der-box; MAX-WIDTH: none; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; HEIGHT: auto; VERTI=
CAL-ALIGN: middle; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none=
; DISPLAY: inline-block" border=3D0 alt=3D"" src=3D"https://www.ford-t=
rucks.com/forums/images/smilies2/biglaugh.gif">) As we talked he asked=
 what my battery voltage was when the alternator was above 1500 rpm an=
d I told him in the 13 volt range. Then he asked what my alternator vo=
ltage was and it was 14.6 or so... He said just to check it and bypass=
 all the wiring to run a wire straight from the alternator to the batt=
ery +... I asked him if it cured the problem should I just leave it in=
 place... he said sure , that way you are getting charging voltage str=
aight from alternator<BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><BR style=3D=
"BOX-SIZING: border-box">So I built a #4 cable and installed it from a=
lternator to battery +... guess what ??? 14.6 at alternator and 14.6 a=
t the battery... All this high tech diagnosis... was just an exercise.=
=2E. At least I know that all my connections and terminals and electri=
cal stuff is good and well grounded and blessed ., I think I'm gonna c=
all him back tomorrow and get him to explain EX-wires reason for not h=
aving that direct charge wire in the first place. Thanks&nbsp; for sti=
cking with me trying to figure this out and for all the information, i=
deas, suggestion, CWAGs and un mentioned comments about how I can be s=
o dumb and yet so&nbsp;good looking at the same time...<BR style=3D"BO=
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D'BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Ve=
rdana, geneva, lucida, "lucida grande", arial, helvetica, sans-serif; =
WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEI=
GHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-STYLE: norma=
l; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; MARGIN:=
 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rg=
b(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font=
-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration=
-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-c=
olor: initial'><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LE=
FT: 0.5em; BORDER-LEFT: #c7e5ff 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.5em; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<HR style=3D"BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 1px; BORDER-RIGHT: mediu=
m none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; COLOR: #ccc; BORDER-LEFT: medium n=
one; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ccc">
John, here=E2=80=99s a little electrical theory for you, hope it helps=
=2E&nbsp;
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Resistance measurements on a vehicle are not generally useful for=
 circuits that handle higher currents but works better for circuits th=
at deal with signals. It is useful just as a open/short diagnosis. Her=
e=E2=80=99s an example. A wire carrying 40A current with 1V drop will =
have a resistance of .025 ohm, much too low to be a real indication. V=
oltage, either to ground (the same ground point for all measurements) =
or voltage drop across a wire is the best way to find bad connections =
or undersized wires, your readings will not be near the end of the ran=
ge or the meter. That=E2=80=99s why I recommended the series of voltag=
e readings all along the wire from the alternator to the battery.&nbsp=
;</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>This approach also works well for grounds. When working with grou=
nds it is best to use a single ground reference point or do voltage dr=
ops across each ground wire.&nbsp;<BR><BR>Peace,</DIV>
<DIV>Pat</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>Pat Horne&nbsp;
<DIV>We support Habitat for Humanity</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><BR>On Aug 9, 2021, at 3:10 PM, john niolon &lt;jniolon=
@att.net&gt; wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>=EF=BB=BF=20
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001">Pat, while =
the battery was out I checked resistance on all battery, starter and g=
round cables... all read from .003 to .004 ohm resistance end to end=20=

<DIV>&nbsp;also rechecked the charging voltage again with engine at 12=
00 rpm&nbsp; 14.6 volts... as I increased the rpm the voltage flickere=
d down to 14.3 - 14.4 to&nbsp; then</DIV>
<DIV>back up to 14.6 as rpm decreased back to 1200</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>did this both with VOM leads on battery terminals AND alternator =
terminals</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>j</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LE=
FT: 0.5em; BORDER-LEFT: #c7e5ff 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.5em; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><B>----- Original Message -----</B></DIV>
<DIV><B>From:</B> Pat Horne &lt;<A>[email-masked]</A>&gt;</DIV>=

<DIV><B>To:</B> john niolon &lt;<A>[email-masked]</A>&gt;</DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> shop-talk &lt;<A>[email-masked]</A>&gt;</DIV=
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> 8/9/2021 1:30:34 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck</DI=
V>
<HR style=3D"BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 1px; BORDER-RIGHT: mediu=
m none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; COLOR: #ccc; BORDER-LEFT: medium n=
one; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ccc">
John,=20
<DIV>Check charging voltage @ alternator post, alternator terminal, te=
rminal on other end of 1/0 cable, post that terminal connects to. If y=
ou can get to the conductor in the 1/0 cable, get that too. That shoul=
d be enough to find the problem.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Peace,</DIV>
<DIV>Pat</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>Pat Horne&nbsp;=20
<DIV>We support Habitat for Humanity</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><BR>On Aug 9, 2021, at 1:02 PM, john niolon &lt;jniolon=
@att.net&gt; wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>=EF=BB=BF=20
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001">
<DIV>
<DIV id=3Dpost_message_20009636 class=3Dnolinks style=3D'BOX-SIZING: b=
order-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, geneva, lucida, "luc=
ida grande", arial, helvetica, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-S=
PACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(34,34,=
34); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-STYLE: normal; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDIN=
G-LEFT: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; MARGIN: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: norma=
l; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT=
: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -web=
kit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-d=
ecoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial'>sorry for sl=
ow response... helping daughter and sil move...priorities!!!</DIV>
<DIV class=3Dnolinks style=3D'BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px;=
 FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, geneva, lucida, "lucida grande", arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM=
: none; FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; F=
ONT-STYLE: normal; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WI=
DOWS: 2; MARGIN: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BACK=
GROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatur=
es: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;=
 text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; t=
ext-decoration-color: initial'>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=3Dnolinks style=3D'BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px;=
 FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, geneva, lucida, "lucida grande", arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM=
: none; FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; F=
ONT-STYLE: normal; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WI=
DOWS: 2; MARGIN: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BACK=
GROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatur=
es: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;=
 text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; t=
ext-decoration-color: initial'>Monday a.m. report<BR style=3D"BOX-SIZI=
NG: border-box"><BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">fresh charge on b=
attery 40 amp for 30 minutes on saturday trickle charger since then ..=
 battery voltage 13.4 this a.m. checked with two different meters<BR s=
tyle=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><=
BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">hooked up H.F. 500 amp load tester=
, voltage reading same as VOM at 13.4<BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-b=
ox">voltage at frame rail terminal also 13.4<BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: b=
order-box"><BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">battery has 800 CCA ca=
pacity<BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">started test... over 15 sec=
ond test the battery slowly dropped to 320 amps and voltage read 10.8 =
(still in the green scale)<BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">stopped=
 test at 15 seconds and two minutes later battery was back up to 12.7<=
BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-bo=
x"><BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><PICTURE id=3Dinline1 style=3D=
"BOX-SIZING: border-box; MAX-WIDTH: 100%; DISPLAY: inline-block" rel=3D=
"Photoswipe"><SOURCE style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box" data-srcset=3D""=
 srcset=3D"https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/=
360x270/voltsa_1305c5989a3f57a2ffce9e2b49c805e0eed9be69.jpg" media=3D"=
(max-width: 580px)"><SOURCE style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box" data-srcs=
et=3D"" srcset=3D"https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbu=
lletin/360x270/voltsa_1305c5989a3f57a2ffce9e2b49c805e0eed9be69.jpg" me=
dia=3D"(max-width: 1000px)"><SOURCE style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box" d=
ata-srcset=3D"" srcset=3D"https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks=
=2Ecom-vbulletin/360x270/voltsa_1305c5989a3f57a2ffce9e2b49c805e0eed9be=
69.jpg"><IMG class=3Dpost_inline_image style=3D"BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none=
; BOX-SIZING: border-box; MAX-WIDTH: 100%; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; HE=
IGHT: auto; VERTICAL-ALIGN: middle; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; BORDER-=
RIGHT-STYLE: none; DISPLAY: inline-block" alt=3D"" src=3D"https://cimg=
8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/360x270/voltsa_1305c598=
9a3f57a2ffce9e2b49c805e0eed9be69.jpg" data-unique-identifier=3D"" load=
ing=3D"lazy" data-src=3D"" data-size=3D"360x270"></PICTURE><BR style=3D=
"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><PICTURE id=3Dinline2 style=3D"BOX-SIZING: bo=
rder-box; MAX-WIDTH: 100%; DISPLAY: inline-block" rel=3D"Photoswipe"><=
SOURCE style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box" data-srcset=3D"" srcset=3D"htt=
ps://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/360x270/amps1_=
d85e8a6155a607aae42c4fe2bbfde35778478032.jpg" media=3D"(max-width: 580=
px)"><SOURCE style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box" data-srcset=3D"" srcset=3D=
"https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/360x270/am=
ps1_d85e8a6155a607aae42c4fe2bbfde35778478032.jpg" media=3D"(max-width:=
 1000px)"><SOURCE style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box" data-srcset=3D"" sr=
cset=3D"https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/360=
x270/amps1_d85e8a6155a607aae42c4fe2bbfde35778478032.jpg"><IMG class=3D=
post_inline_image style=3D"BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BOX-SIZING: border-=
box; MAX-WIDTH: 100%; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; HEIGHT: auto; VERTICAL-=
ALIGN: middle; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; DI=
SPLAY: inline-block" alt=3D"" src=3D"https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.=
ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/360x270/amps1_d85e8a6155a607aae42c4fe2bbfde3=
5778478032.jpg" data-unique-identifier=3D"" loading=3D"lazy" data-src=3D=
"" data-size=3D"360x270"></PICTURE><BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box=
"><BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">next step will be check alterna=
tor output at battery and terminal point<BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: borde=
r-box"><BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">ok... started truck... eng=
ine at 1200 rpm<BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">meter on alternato=
r o/p- voltage is 14.6<BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">meter on ba=
ttery voltage is 13.5<BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><BR style=3D=
"BOX-SIZING: border-box">hmmm...1.1 volt drop in 4' of 1/0 cable....th=
at don't sound right<BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">need to measu=
re resistance of cable I guess...<BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">=
<BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">as an aside... checked voltaged b=
etween frame ground and the case of the alternator... 0.0001 volts<BR =
style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><BR style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">=
I also took battery back to Wal mart and Quintella checked it...&nbsp;=
 battery is good based on her years of</DIV>
<DIV class=3Dnolinks style=3D'BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px;=
 FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, geneva, lucida, "lucida grande", arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM=
: none; FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; F=
ONT-STYLE: normal; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WI=
DOWS: 2; MARGIN: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BACK=
GROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatur=
es: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;=
 text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; t=
ext-decoration-color: initial'>battery experience<BR style=3D"BOX-SIZI=
NG: border-box"></DIV>
<DIV style=3D'BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Ve=
rdana, geneva, lucida, "lucida grande", arial, helvetica, sans-serif; =
WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEI=
GHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-STYLE: norma=
l; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; MARGIN:=
 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rg=
b(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font=
-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration=
-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-c=
olor: initial'>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LE=
FT: 0.5em; BORDER-LEFT: #c7e5ff 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.5em; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><B>----- Original Message -----</B></DIV>
<DIV><B>From:</B> john niolon &lt;<A>[email-masked]</A>&gt;</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> shop-talk &lt;<A>[email-masked]</A>&gt;</DIV=
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> 8/6/2021 8:58:12 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck</DIV>
<HR style=3D"BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 1px; BORDER-RIGHT: mediu=
m none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; COLOR: #ccc; BORDER-LEFT: medium n=
one; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ccc">

<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001">
<DIV>jeff=E2=80=A6.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; regular led acid battery ?=
?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT color=3D#ff0000>Everstart Maxx27 800 C=
CA&nbsp; regular Walmart battery</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>When it died, did any of the electrical items still work?&nbsp; L=
ights, etc.?&nbsp; <FONT color=3D#ff0000>when it first occurred ,, whe=
n I tried to restart,&nbsp;.. starter just clicked and I remember the =
a/c fan still blowing</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Donald...&nbsp; How large is the cable from=
 the alternator to the battery?&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT><FONT color=3D#ff00=
00>feed from battery to alternator is #4 wire<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000><FONT color=3D#000000>Dave... I was thinkin=
g a dirty battery clamp.</FONT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; battery clamps are n=
ew this year and clean, no corrosion on connections</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000><FONT color=3D#000000>John...&nbsp;&nbsp; H=
ow is the volt meter in your truck grounded, to the frame or to the mo=
tor?</FONT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; voltmeter in dash is grounded to dash fr=
ame&nbsp; voltmeter used to check under hood is grounded to frame not =
engine.&nbsp; I'll go back and check ground connections. Alternator ha=
s a ground terminal of it's own... it's #10 wire grounded to the frame=
&nbsp;and of course the alternator is grounded through it's mount.</FO=
NT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Pat...&nbsp; what is the relationship betwe=
en the frame terminal &amp; the rest of the electrical system?&nbsp; <=
/FONT>Terminal on the frame rail is fed by a 4' piece of &nbsp;#4 wire=
 from the i/p solenoid lug where the cable from the battery is connect=
ed to the solenoid.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Jimmie..&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; What's the volta=
ge at the terminal with those accessories 'on' but the engine 'off'</F=
ONT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; hmmm ?? don't remember checking that, =E2=80=A6=
&nbsp; I'll do that</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;<FONT color=3D#000000>How big is the alternator?</FONT>&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; 100 amp single wire from CVF racing</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>ya'll have given me lots to check and reche=
ck and some I haven't thought of...&nbsp;&nbsp; going back through my =
diagnostics and check connections too.&nbsp; I bought a 500 amp load t=
ester yesterday and will put sufficient load on the battery.&nbsp; Bat=
tery is under the cab and I have to lower it to check it out and with =
the low truck, I have to raise truck on jackstands.. silly me, I thoug=
ht battery would be a low maintenance item ...duh.&nbsp;&nbsp; so chec=
king at a shop somewhere is a very large pain.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>points I'm considering.... larger ground wi=
res from frame to engine.... alternator to frame and check resistance =
from solenoid lug to the terminal on the frame...&nbsp;&nbsp; the saga=
 continues</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>thanks for all the replies and points to ch=
eck..&nbsp;&nbsp; you guys are the best</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>john</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN>___________________________=
____________________</SPAN><BR><SPAN></SPAN><BR><SPAN>Shop-talk@autox.=
team.net</SPAN><BR><SPAN>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html</SPAN=
><BR><SPAN>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.96</SPAN><BR><SPAN>Arch=
ive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc=
hive</SPAN><BR><SPAN></SPAN><BR><SPAN>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox=
=2Eteam.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</SPAN><BR>=
<SPAN></SPAN><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></B=
ODY></HTML>

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[email-masked]

--===============8914787316588993180==--

---

From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 16:39:17 -0500

--===============7288720556330606890==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-69CBEA7B-F1CB-42A8-A42F-541CD044A3DC
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Glad you found it!

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne=20

On Aug 12, 2021, at 4:34 PM, john niolon <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
well, that's three days or so I'll never see again... started over on the di=
agnosis... A fellow ford guy in Canada mentioned something about the alterna=
tor exciter wire being used when alternator was larger than 80 amps. I didn'=
t use one... I called EZ-wire tech guy and we discussed it. He assured me th=
at with a one wire unit the exciter wire wasn't used (it gets itself excited=
 ) As we talked he asked what my battery voltage was when the alternator was=
 above 1500 rpm and I told him in the 13 volt range. Then he asked what my a=
lternator voltage was and it was 14.6 or so... He said just to check it and b=
ypass all the wiring to run a wire straight from the alternator to the batte=
ry +... I asked him if it cured the problem should I just leave it in place.=
.. he said sure , that way you are getting charging voltage straight from al=
ternator

So I built a #4 cable and installed it from alternator to battery +... guess=
 what ??? 14.6 at alternator and 14.6 at the battery... All this high tech d=
iagnosis... was just an exercise... At least I know that all my connections a=
nd terminals and electrical stuff is good and well grounded and blessed ., I=
 think I'm gonna call him back tomorrow and get him to explain EX-wires reas=
on for not having that direct charge wire in the first place. Thanks  for st=
icking with me trying to figure this out and for all the information, ideas,=
 suggestion, CWAGs and un mentioned comments about how I can be so dumb and y=
et so good looking at the same time...

john
=20
=20

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne=20

----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
To: john niolon <[email-masked]>
Cc: shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Sent: 8/9/2021 1:30:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
John,

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne=20

=EF=BB=BF

----- Original Message -----
From: john niolon <[email-masked]>
To: shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Sent: 8/6/2021 8:58:12 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail-69CBEA7B-F1CB-42A8-A42F-541CD044A3DC
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Glad you found it!<div><br></div><div>Peace=
,</div><div>Pat<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Pat Horne&nbsp;<div>We support Habit=
at for Humanity</div><div><br></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Aug 12, 20=
21, at 4:34 PM, john niolon &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

<div>
<div id=3D"post_message_20015028" style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE=
: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, geneva, lucida, &quot;lucida grande&quot;, ari=
al, helvetica, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRAN=
SFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; FO=
NT-STYLE: normal; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2=
; MARGIN: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BACKGROUND-COLOR:=
 rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-va=
riant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thicknes=
s: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial">=
<font size=3D"3">well, that's three days or so I'll never see again... start=
ed over on the diagnosis... A fellow ford guy in Canada&nbsp;mentioned somet=
hing about the alternator exciter wire being used when alternator was larger=
 than 80 amps. I didn't use one... I called EZ-wire tech guy and we discusse=
d it. He assured me that with a one wire unit the exciter wire wasn't used (=
it gets itself excited<span>&nbsp;</span><img title=3D"Laughing Grin" class=3D=
"inlineimg" style=3D"BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BOX-SIZING: border-box; MAX-WID=
TH: none; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; HEIGHT: auto; VERTICAL-ALIGN: middle; BOR=
DER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; DISPLAY: inline-block" bor=
der=3D"0" alt=3D"" src=3D"https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/images/smilies2=
/biglaugh.gif" data-unique-identifier=3D"">) As we talked he asked what my b=
attery voltage was when the alternator was above 1500 rpm and I told him in t=
he 13 volt range. Then he asked what my alternator voltage was and it was 14=
.6 or so... He said just to check it and bypass all the wiring to run a wire=
 straight from the alternator to the battery +... I asked him if it cured th=
e problem should I just leave it in place... he said sure , that way you are=
 getting charging voltage straight from alternator<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: b=
order-box"><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">So I built a #4 cable and in=
stalled it from alternator to battery +... guess what ??? 14.6 at alternator=
 and 14.6 at the battery... All this high tech diagnosis... was just an exer=
cise... At least I know that all my connections and terminals and electrical=
 stuff is good and well grounded and blessed ., I think I'm gonna call him b=
ack tomorrow and get him to explain EX-wires reason for not having that dire=
ct charge wire in the first place. Thanks&nbsp; for sticking with me trying t=
o figure this out and for all the information, ideas, suggestion, CWAGs and u=
n mentioned comments about how I can be so dumb and yet so&nbsp;good looking=
 at the same time...<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br style=3D"BOX-SI=
ZING: border-box">john</font></div>
<div style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana,=
 geneva, lucida, &quot;lucida grande&quot;, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; WH=
ITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: 400=
; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-STYLE: normal; PADDING-TOP=
: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; MARGIN: 0px; LETTER-SPACING=
: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDEN=
T: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-t=
ext-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-s=
tyle: initial; text-decoration-color: initial"><font size=3D"3"></font>&nbsp=
;</div></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0.=
5em; BORDER-LEFT: #c7e5ff 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.5em; PADDING-RIGH=
T: 0px">
<hr style=3D"BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 1px; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none=
; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; COLOR: #ccc; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BACKGRO=
UND-COLOR: #ccc">
John, here=E2=80=99s a little electrical theory for you, hope it helps.&nbsp=
;
<div><br></div>
<div>Resistance measurements on a vehicle are not generally useful for circu=
its that handle higher currents but works better for circuits that deal with=
 signals. It is useful just as a open/short diagnosis. Here=E2=80=99s an exa=
mple. A wire carrying 40A current with 1V drop will have a resistance of .02=
5 ohm, much too low to be a real indication. Voltage, either to ground (the s=
ame ground point for all measurements) or voltage drop across a wire is the b=
est way to find bad connections or undersized wires, your readings will not b=
e near the end of the range or the meter. That=E2=80=99s why I recommended t=
he series of voltage readings all along the wire from the alternator to the b=
attery.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>This approach also works well for grounds. When working with grounds it=
 is best to use a single ground reference point or do voltage drops across e=
ach ground wire.&nbsp;<br><br>Peace,</div>
<div>Pat</div>
<div><br>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Pat Horne&nbsp;
<div>We support Habitat for Humanity</div>
<div><br></div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Aug 9, 2021, at 3:10 PM, john niolon &lt;jniolon@att=
.net&gt; wrote:<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF=20
<meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001">Pat, while the b=
attery was out I checked resistance on all battery, starter and ground cable=
s... all read from .003 to .004 ohm resistance end to end=20
<div>&nbsp;also rechecked the charging voltage again with engine at 1200 rpm=
&nbsp; 14.6 volts... as I increased the rpm the voltage flickered down to 14=
.3 - 14.4 to&nbsp; then</div>
<div>back up to 14.6 as rpm decreased back to 1200</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>did this both with VOM leads on battery terminals AND alternator termin=
als</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>j</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0.=
5em; BORDER-LEFT: #c7e5ff 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.5em; PADDING-RIGH=
T: 0px">
<div><b>----- Original Message -----</b></div>
<div><b>From:</b> Pat Horne &lt;<a>[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div>
<div><b>To:</b> john niolon &lt;<a>[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> shop-talk &lt;<a>[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> 8/9/2021 1:30:34 PM</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck</div>
<hr style=3D"BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 1px; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none=
; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; COLOR: #ccc; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BACKGRO=
UND-COLOR: #ccc">
John,=20
<div>Check charging voltage @ alternator post, alternator terminal, terminal=
 on other end of 1/0 cable, post that terminal connects to. If you can get t=
o the conductor in the 1/0 cable, get that too. That should be enough to fin=
d the problem.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Peace,</div>
<div>Pat</div>
<div><br><br>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Pat Horne&nbsp;=20
<div>We support Habitat for Humanity</div>
<div><br></div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Aug 9, 2021, at 1:02 PM, john niolon &lt;jniolon@att=
.net&gt; wrote:<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF=20
<meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001">
<div>
<div id=3D"post_message_20009636" class=3D"nolinks" style=3D"BOX-SIZING: bor=
der-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, geneva, lucida, &quot;lucida=
 grande&quot;, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACI=
NG: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDI=
NG-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-STYLE: normal; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORP=
HANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; MARGIN: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px;=
 BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligature=
s: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-d=
ecoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoratio=
n-color: initial">sorry for slow response... helping daughter and sil move..=
.priorities!!!</div>
<div class=3D"nolinks" style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FON=
T-FAMILY: Verdana, geneva, lucida, &quot;lucida grande&quot;, arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none=
; FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-STYLE: n=
ormal; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; MARGIN: 0=
px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,25=
5,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps:=
 normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial;=
 text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial">&nbsp;</div=
<div class=3D"nolinks" style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FON=
T-FAMILY: Verdana, geneva, lucida, &quot;lucida grande&quot;, arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none=
; FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-STYLE: n=
ormal; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; MARGIN: 0=
px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,25=
5,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps:=
 normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial;=
 text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial">Monday a.m.=
 report<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-=
box">fresh charge on battery 40 amp for 30 minutes on saturday trickle charg=
er since then .. battery voltage 13.4 this a.m. checked with two different m=
eters<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-bo=
x"><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">hooked up H.F. 500 amp load tester, v=
oltage reading same as VOM at 13.4<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">volta=
ge at frame rail terminal also 13.4<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br s=
tyle=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">battery has 800 CCA capacity<br style=3D"BOX=
-SIZING: border-box">started test... over 15 second test the battery slowly d=
ropped to 320 amps and voltage read 10.8 (still in the green scale)<br style=
=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">stopped test at 15 seconds and two minutes later=
 battery was back up to 12.7<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br style=3D=
"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><picture id=3D=
"inline1" style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box; MAX-WIDTH: 100%; DISPLAY: inline-=
block" rel=3D"Photoswipe"><source style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box" data-srcs=
et=3D"" srcset=3D"https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin=
/360x270/voltsa_1305c5989a3f57a2ffce9e2b49c805e0eed9be69.jpg" media=3D"(max-=
width: 580px)"><source style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box" data-srcset=3D"" src=
set=3D"https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/360x270/vo=
ltsa_1305c5989a3f57a2ffce9e2b49c805e0eed9be69.jpg" media=3D"(max-width: 1000=
px)"><source style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box" data-srcset=3D"" srcset=3D"htt=
ps://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/360x270/voltsa_1305c=
5989a3f57a2ffce9e2b49c805e0eed9be69.jpg"><img class=3D"post_inline_image" st=
yle=3D"BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BOX-SIZING: border-box; MAX-WIDTH: 100%; BORD=
ER-LEFT-STYLE: none; HEIGHT: auto; VERTICAL-ALIGN: middle; BORDER-BOTTOM-STY=
LE: none; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; DISPLAY: inline-block" alt=3D"" src=3D"h=
ttps://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/360x270/voltsa_130=
5c5989a3f57a2ffce9e2b49c805e0eed9be69.jpg" loading=3D"lazy" data-src=3D"" da=
ta-size=3D"360x270" data-unique-identifier=3D""></picture><br style=3D"BOX-S=
IZING: border-box"><picture id=3D"inline2" style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box; M=
AX-WIDTH: 100%; DISPLAY: inline-block" rel=3D"Photoswipe"><source style=3D"B=
OX-SIZING: border-box" data-srcset=3D"" srcset=3D"https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gi=
mg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/360x270/amps1_d85e8a6155a607aae42c4fe2bbfde=
35778478032.jpg" media=3D"(max-width: 580px)"><source style=3D"BOX-SIZING: b=
order-box" data-srcset=3D"" srcset=3D"https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-=
trucks.com-vbulletin/360x270/amps1_d85e8a6155a607aae42c4fe2bbfde35778478032.=
jpg" media=3D"(max-width: 1000px)"><source style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box" d=
ata-srcset=3D"" srcset=3D"https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-v=
bulletin/360x270/amps1_d85e8a6155a607aae42c4fe2bbfde35778478032.jpg"><img cl=
ass=3D"post_inline_image" style=3D"BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BOX-SIZING: borde=
r-box; MAX-WIDTH: 100%; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; HEIGHT: auto; VERTICAL-ALIG=
N: middle; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; DISPLAY: inl=
ine-block" alt=3D"" src=3D"https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-=
vbulletin/360x270/amps1_d85e8a6155a607aae42c4fe2bbfde35778478032.jpg" loadin=
g=3D"lazy" data-src=3D"" data-size=3D"360x270" data-unique-identifier=3D""><=
/picture><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: borde=
r-box">next step will be check alternator output at battery and terminal poi=
nt<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">=
ok... started truck... engine at 1200 rpm<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box=
">meter on alternator o/p- voltage is 14.6<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-bo=
x">meter on battery voltage is 13.5<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br s=
tyle=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">hmmm...1.1 volt drop in 4' of 1/0 cable....t=
hat don't sound right<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">need to measure re=
sistance of cable I guess...<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"><br style=3D=
"BOX-SIZING: border-box">as an aside... checked voltaged between frame groun=
d and the case of the alternator... 0.0001 volts<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: bor=
der-box"><br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box">I also took battery back to Wa=
l mart and Quintella checked it...&nbsp; battery is good based on her years o=
f</div>
<div class=3D"nolinks" style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FON=
T-FAMILY: Verdana, geneva, lucida, &quot;lucida grande&quot;, arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none=
; FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-STYLE: n=
ormal; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; MARGIN: 0=
px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,25=
5,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps:=
 normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial;=
 text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial">battery exp=
erience<br style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box"></div>
<div style=3D"BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana,=
 geneva, lucida, &quot;lucida grande&quot;, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; WH=
ITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: 400=
; COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-STYLE: normal; PADDING-TOP=
: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; MARGIN: 0px; LETTER-SPACING=
: normal; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDEN=
T: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-t=
ext-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-s=
tyle: initial; text-decoration-color: initial">&nbsp;</div></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0.=
5em; BORDER-LEFT: #c7e5ff 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.5em; PADDING-RIGH=
T: 0px">
<div><b>----- Original Message -----</b></div>
<div><b>From:</b> john niolon &lt;<a>[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div>
<div><b>To:</b> shop-talk &lt;<a>[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> 8/6/2021 8:58:12 AM</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck</div>
<hr style=3D"BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 1px; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none=
; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; COLOR: #ccc; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BACKGRO=
UND-COLOR: #ccc">

[email-masked]</span><br><span></span><br></div></div></blockquote></=
div></div></blockquote>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span></span=
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Jack Brooks <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 21:56:50 +0000

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---

From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:03:22 +0000 (UTC)

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Alternators, and generators, have what is called residual magnetism.=C2=A0 =
The steel laminates in the field (the rotor in the case of an alternator) w=
ill become magnetized.=C2=A0 As the rotor spins the rotating magnets will g=
enerate current in the stator coils.=C2=A0 This is important since power fo=
r the exciter field comes from the alternator output.=C2=A0 Basically it li=
fts itself up by the bootstraps.=C2=A0
The amount of residual magnetic field=C2=A0 strength is small so it takes m=
ore speed to achieve enough voltage to start exciting the field will take m=
ore speed than that required during normal operation.=C2=A0 My TR6 alternat=
or has a charge indicator light connected between the exciter power and the=
 battery.=C2=A0 =C2=A0This provides a small amount of current to the excite=
r to help get things going more quickly.=C2=A0 The TR6 alternator will reli=
ably start charging at or below 1,000 RPM with the light installed but if I=
 reomove the light it sometimes needs 1,800 RPM.=C2=A0=C2=A0
BTW, alternators are not direction sensitive since the rectification is acc=
omplished wit semiconductor diodes.
It appears your new regulator is of a newer generation that actvates the IG=
N light directly.=C2=A0
Oh, and three very good reasons for selecting that alternator.=C2=A0

Dave=20
=20
  On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 17:02, Jack Brooks<[email-masked]> wrote:   __=
_____________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive

[email-masked]

 =20

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Alternators, and generators, have what is called residual magnetism.&nbsp; =
The steel laminates in the field (the rotor in the case of an alternator) w=
ill become magnetized.&nbsp; As the rotor spins the rotating magnets will g=
enerate current in the stator coils.&nbsp; This is important since power fo=
r the exciter field comes from the alternator output.&nbsp; Basically it li=
fts itself up by the bootstraps.&nbsp;<div id=3D"yMail_cursorElementTracker=
_1628859112364"><br></div><div id=3D"yMail_cursorElementTracker_16288591135=
16">The amount of residual magnetic field&nbsp; strength is small so it tak=
es more speed to achieve enough voltage to start exciting the field will ta=
ke more speed than that required during normal operation.&nbsp; My TR6 alte=
rnator has a charge indicator light connected between the exciter power and=
 the battery.&nbsp; &nbsp;This provides a small amount of current to the ex=
citer to help get things going more quickly.&nbsp; The TR6 alternator will =
reliably start charging at or below 1,000 RPM with the light installed but =
if I reomove the light it sometimes needs 1,800 RPM.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div =
id=3D"yMail_cursorElementTracker_1628859519033"><br></div><div id=3D"yMail_=
cursorElementTracker_1628859520181">BTW, alternators are not direction sens=
itive since the rectification is accomplished wit semiconductor diodes.</di=
v><div id=3D"yMail_cursorElementTracker_1628859598199"><br></div><div id=3D=
"yMail_cursorElementTracker_1628859598626">It appears your new regulator is=
 of a newer generation that actvates the IGN light directly.&nbsp;</div><di=
v id=3D"yMail_cursorElementTracker_1628859670953"><br></div><div id=3D"yMai=
l_cursorElementTracker_1628859671518">Oh, and three very good reasons for s=
electing that alternator.&nbsp;<br><br><div id=3D"ymail_android_signature">=
Dave</div> <br> <blockquote style=3D"margin: 0 0 20px 0;"> <div style=3D"fo=
nt-family:Roboto, sans-serif; color:#6D00F6;"> <div>On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at=
 17:02, Jack Brooks</div><div>&lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</div> </div>=
 <div style=3D"padding: 10px 0 0 20px; margin: 10px 0 0 0; border-left: 1px=
 solid #6D00F6;"> _______________________________________________<br clear=
=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:Shop-talk@=
autox.team.net" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
am.net</a><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.t=
eam.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><=
br clear=3D"none">Suggested annual donation&nbsp; $12.96<br clear=3D"none">=
Archive: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk =
" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk </a><a shape=3D=
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ions/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">=
 </div> </blockquote></div>
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[email-masked]

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