Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Any of you guys fool around with HVAC/refrigeration?

From: John Innis <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 14:23:02 -0500

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Biggest challenge is getting the correct refrigerant and charging the
system with the correct amount.  A lot of times appliance like this do not
have easily accessible charging ports like an automotive A/C system.  You
you have to attach a compression fitting to a tube that got soldered shut
at the factory after they charged it.  If you can get past that bit, the
actual repairs are usually pretty simple.  BUT be sure to inspect the
system really well when you have it apart.  Often times the TEV or orifice
tube will be clogged with metal shavings, letting you know the compressor
is on it's way out.  If you find that is the case, no sense in putting in a
new part unless you are going to replace the compressor too.  If you
replace the compressor, you need to know if the new unit already has the
oil charge in it, or if you need to add that with the refrigerant (usually
they are shipped WITHOUT oil, because different systems use different types
of oil.  ) Getting the correct type and amount here is important.  These
things can get out of hand.

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 2:03 PM Scott Hall <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> I just spent the morning calling maybe twenty different results under
> "Appliance Repair" on Google to fix a Sub Zero refrigerator that came with
> the new house.
>
> Literally every one Just Doesn't Want to be Bothered. The Sub Zero dealer
> WILL take my money--$700 for the part--and another $800 for the labor. This
> is an undercounter fridge that I can just toss, and Google tells me the
> part is $150 online. I don't like it $1500, especially when it looks like
> their labor rate is $400/hour (including drive time) and the part has a
> 400% markup.
>
> Separately, I have two 1950s-era Coca Cola bottle vending machines. They
> have sentimental value so I don't want to toss them, but a while back I
> tried calling around to have them repaired because they don't cool. That
> was worse than trying to have a refrigerator fixed.
>
> These are all just compressors attached to evaporators, etc. The vending
> machines are stone ax-simple and the cool thing about the Sub Zero is that
> it is, too--all the parts are designed to be easily replaced and are either
> out in the open or behind easily-removed panels. I actually like this
> thing; it's like the opposite of our Mazda on which even an oil change made
> me want to trade in the car (seriously, Mazda, why locate the oil filter
> *under* the exhaust manifold and make only accessible from the top of the
> car? I know you guys are in Hiroshima, but that was a LONG time ago. Let's
> move on.)
>
> And watching the Sub-Zero guy do his thing, he used a Harbor Freight
> vacuum to pull vacuum on the system, and the gauges looked like HF stuff
> too. And I feel like if I can rebuild a car engine, I can probably handle
> this.
>
> Anybody get involved with this stuff? At this point I feel like I'd be
> less frustrated in learning to fix these myself than I am trying to get
> someone to come out and fix them.
> _______________________________________________
>
> [email-masked]
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= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Biggest challenge is getting the correct refrigerant and c=
harging the system with the correct amount.=C2=A0 A lot of times appliance =
like this do not have easily accessible charging ports like an automotive A=
/C system.=C2=A0 You you have to attach a compression fitting to a tube tha=
t got soldered shut at the factory after they charged it.=C2=A0 If you can =
get past that bit, the actual repairs are usually pretty simple.=C2=A0 BUT =
be sure to inspect the system really well when you have it apart.=C2=A0 Oft=
en times the TEV or orifice tube will be clogged with metal shavings, letti=
ng you know the compressor is on it&#39;s way out.=C2=A0 If you find that i=
s the case, no sense in putting in a new part unless you are going to repla=
ce the compressor too.=C2=A0 If you replace the compressor, you need to kno=
w if the new unit already has the oil charge in it, or if you need to add t=
hat with the refrigerant (usually they are shipped WITHOUT oil, because dif=
ferent systems use different types of oil.=C2=A0 ) Getting the correct type=
 and amount here is important.=C2=A0 These things can get out of hand. =C2=
=A0<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail=
_attr">On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 2:03 PM Scott Hall &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:scot=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I =
just spent the morning calling maybe twenty different results under &quot;A=
ppliance Repair&quot; on Google to fix a Sub Zero refrigerator that came wi=
th the new house.<div><br></div><div>Literally every one Just Doesn&#39;t W=
ant to be Bothered. The Sub Zero dealer WILL take my money--$700 for the pa=
rt--and another $800 for the labor. This is an undercounter fridge that I c=
an just toss, and Google tells me the part is $150 online. I don&#39;t like=
 it $1500, especially when it looks like their labor rate is $400/hour (inc=
luding drive time) and the part has a 400% markup.</div><div><br></div><div=
>Separately, I have two 1950s-era Coca Cola bottle vending machines. They h=
ave sentimental value so I don&#39;t want to toss them, but a while back I =
tried calling around to have them repaired because they don&#39;t cool. Tha=
t was worse than trying to have a refrigerator fixed.=C2=A0</div><div><br><=
/div><div>These are all just compressors attached to evaporators, etc. The =
vending machines are stone ax-simple and the cool thing about the Sub Zero =
is that it is, too--all the parts are designed to be easily replaced and ar=
e either out in the open or behind easily-removed panels. I actually like t=
his thing; it&#39;s like the opposite of our Mazda on which even an oil cha=
nge made me want to trade in the car (seriously, Mazda, why locate the oil =
filter *under* the exhaust manifold and make only accessible from the top o=
f the car? I know you guys are in Hiroshima, but that was a LONG time ago. =
Let&#39;s move on.)</div><div><br></div><div>And watching the Sub-Zero guy =
do his thing, he used a Harbor Freight vacuum to pull vacuum on the system,=
 and the gauges looked like HF stuff too. And I feel like if I can rebuild =
a car engine, I can probably handle this.</div><div><br></div><div>Anybody =
get involved with this stuff? At this point I feel like I&#39;d be less fru=
strated in learning to fix these myself than I am trying to get someone to =
come out and fix them.=C2=A0</div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g=
mail_signature">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>=3D Never offend people with =
style when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Bro=
wn=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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From: Arvid <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 14:27:40 -0500

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What little I know about it ...

Yes, the basic concept and tasks are dead simple.

To keep mere mortals from actually fixing things like this there appear to be two show-stoppers.

The first is getting access to a reasonable quantity of the correct refrigerant ... all three aspects - the 'access' part, the 'you do not need a 25lb bottle of it if you can actually get it' part and the 'correct ' part.

You may need an EPA 608 certificate to get the refrigerant. That may still be available by going to this site ... https://ww2.epatest.com/epa-608/ ... and taking the on-line test. I did that many years ago and they sent me the card in the mail. I've never actually used it but it seemed to be what was required to get refrigerant if you need something other than the R-134A topper cans available at the local hardware and auto parts store.

The second is the fittings on the hoses. It seems like categories of refrigerant have threaded fittings that are different from other categories of refrigerant. I know the old R-12 fittings on cars are different than the newer R-134A fittings which may be different than whatever they are currently using. The HF gauge set is listed as R-134A and that defines the threaded fitting on the end of the hoses.

And you now know about as much as I do.

On 5/7/21 2:02 PM, Scott Hall wrote:
> I just spent the morning calling maybe twenty different results under "Appliance Repair" on Google to fix a Sub Zero refrigerator that came with the new house.
>
> Literally every one Just Doesn't Want to be Bothered. The Sub Zero dealer WILL take my money--$700 for the part--and another $800 for the labor. This is an undercounter fridge that I can just toss, and Google tells me the part is $150 online. I don't like it $1500, especially when it looks like their labor rate is $400/hour (including drive time) and the part has a 400% markup.
>
> Separately, I have two 1950s-era Coca Cola bottle vending machines. They have sentimental value so I don't want to toss them, but a while back I tried calling around to have them repaired because they don't cool. That was worse than trying to have a refrigerator fixed.
>
> These are all just compressors attached to evaporators, etc. The vending machines are stone ax-simple and the cool thing about the Sub Zero is that it is, too--all the parts are designed to be easily replaced and are either out in the open or behind easily-removed panels. I actually like this thing; it's like the opposite of our Mazda on which even an oil change made me want to trade in the car (seriously, Mazda, why locate the oil filter *under* the exhaust manifold and make only accessible from the top of the car? I know you guys are in Hiroshima, but that was a LONG time ago. Let's move on.)
>
> And watching the Sub-Zero guy do his thing, he used a Harbor Freight vacuum to pull vacuum on the system, and the gauges looked like HF stuff too. And I feel like if I can rebuild a car engine, I can probably handle this.
>
> Anybody get involved with this stuff? At this point I feel like I'd be less frustrated in learning to fix these myself than I am trying to get someone to come out and fix them.
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>

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    <p>What little I know about it ...</p>
    <p>Yes, the basic concept and tasks are dead simple.</p>
    <p>To keep mere mortals from actually fixing things like this there
      appear to be two show-stoppers.</p>
    <p>The first is getting access to a reasonable quantity of the
      correct refrigerant ... all three aspects - the 'access' part, the
      'you do not need a 25lb bottle of it if you can actually get it'
      part and the 'correct ' part.<br>
      <br>
      You may need an EPA 608 certificate to get the refrigerant. That
      may still be available by going to this site ...
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ww2.epatest.com/epa-608/">https://ww2.epatest.com/epa-608/</a> ... and taking the on-line test.
      I did that many years ago and they sent me the card in the mail.
      I've never actually used it but it seemed to be what was required
      to get refrigerant if you need something other than the R-134A
      topper cans available at the local hardware and auto parts store.<br>
    </p>
    <p>The second is the fittings on the hoses. It seems like categories
      of refrigerant have threaded fittings that are different from
      other categories of refrigerant. I know the old R-12 fittings on
      cars are different than the newer R-134A fittings which may be
      different than whatever they are currently using. The HF gauge set
      is listed as R-134A and that defines the threaded fitting on the
      end of the hoses.</p>
    <p>And you now know about as much as I do.</p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/7/21 2:02 PM, Scott Hall wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAK73_u4T9MPRoVRZkTLofqrR8wv-J_A8OaGO-EG=[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">I just spent the morning calling maybe twenty
        different results under "Appliance Repair" on Google to fix a
        Sub Zero refrigerator that came with the new house.
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Literally every one Just Doesn't Want to be Bothered. The
          Sub Zero dealer WILL take my money--$700 for the part--and
          another $800 for the labor. This is an undercounter fridge
          that I can just toss, and Google tells me the part is $150
          online. I don't like it $1500, especially when it looks like
          their labor rate is $400/hour (including drive time) and the
          part has a 400% markup.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Separately, I have two 1950s-era Coca Cola bottle vending
          machines. They have sentimental value so I don't want to toss
          them, but a while back I tried calling around to have them
          repaired because they don't cool. That was worse than trying
          to have a refrigerator fixed. </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>These are all just compressors attached to evaporators,
          etc. The vending machines are stone ax-simple and the cool
          thing about the Sub Zero is that it is, too--all the parts are
          designed to be easily replaced and are either out in the open
          or behind easily-removed panels. I actually like this thing;
          it's like the opposite of our Mazda on which even an oil
          change made me want to trade in the car (seriously, Mazda, why
          locate the oil filter *under* the exhaust manifold and make
          only accessible from the top of the car? I know you guys are
          in Hiroshima, but that was a LONG time ago. Let's move on.)</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>And watching the Sub-Zero guy do his thing, he used a
          Harbor Freight vacuum to pull vacuum on the system, and the
          gauges looked like HF stuff too. And I feel like if I can
          rebuild a car engine, I can probably handle this.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Anybody get involved with this stuff? At this point I feel
          like I'd be less frustrated in learning to fix these myself
          than I am trying to get someone to come out and fix them. </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________

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