Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Square D QO breaker Box

From: Eric Russell <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 14:23:18 -0400

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Not being an electrician and not having stayed at any hotels recently I've
stayed out of this exchange. Until now...

Have you looked at RV power supplies? The one in our motorhome has 6 120v
breakers, 10 12v fuses and a 120v AC to 12v DC converter.

Eric Russell
Mebane NC

On Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 2:10 PM Brian K <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I'd reach out to Square D and see their recommendation for 120v options.
> There may be a bus bar jumper designed to connect the bars. They may even
> recommend a better panel.
>
>  I'm under the impression that you can't connect multiple wires in a
> breaker lug. Even had a home inspector write up two wires on the same
> breaker as a violation.
>
> Brian
>
> On Apr 14, 2021 8:22 AM, Jack Brooks <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
>
>
> Yes, that screw down connection is sized for 2/0, so I can squeeze two
> wires in one side of the circuit and run one over to the other side.  Thi=
s
> seemed logical, but I just wanted to be sure that it was a reasonable
> solution.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> *From:* Shop-talk <[email-masked]> * On Behalf Of *Mark
> Miller
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 14, 2021 12:19 AM
> *To:* [email-masked]
> *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Square D QO breaker Box
>
>
>
> It is designed to be fed by 240V (2 phase 120) power.  If you are feeding
> it with a single leg of 120V just tie the two main lugs together and run
> that from your power source.  The lugs should be large enough to have you=
r
> incoming power go into one and then have a second wire in that lug feed t=
he
> other lug.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Mark Miller   707-490-5834
>
> [email-masked]
>
> On 4/13/2021 10:01 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2021 7:58 PM
>
> To: Jack Brooks <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
>
> Cc: Shop Talk <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
>
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Square D QO breaker Box
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 6:39 PM Jack Brooks <[email-masked]> <JIBrooks=
@live.com> wrote:
>
> I am building a Sprinter van into an RV and have a question about the 120=
v breaker box (SquareD QO24L70RBCP).  It is a 2-Space, 4-Circuit load cente=
r.  My concern is that while the Neutral bar has four positions on a common=
 bar, the two breaker connections are independent, without a common bar bet=
ween the two.  This surprised the heck out of me. My inverter (Victron 24/7=
0/3000)  has a single AC output with a ?cage clamp? terminal, not a screw d=
own or stud terminal which would be easy. I can run a 6 or 8 AWG from the i=
nverter to the Breaker box, but it needs to go to the two separate screw do=
wn terminals.  Physically, I believe I can run an 8 AWG wire into one break=
er, and then back out to the other breaker, but I?m concerned about whether=
 this is a code violation.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> [email-masked]
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">Not being an electrician and not having stayed at any hot=
els recently I&#39;ve stayed out of this exchange. Until now...=C2=A0<div d=
ir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Have you looked at RV power supplie=
s? The one in our motorhome has 6 120v breakers, 10 12v fuses and a 120v AC=
 to 12v DC converter.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Eric Russell</div><div dir=3D"auto">Mebane NC</div></div><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Apr 14=
, 2021, 2:10 PM Brian K &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">bk13@eart=
hlink.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"auto">I&#39;d reach out to Square D and see their recommendation for 12=
0v options. There may be a bus bar jumper designed to connect the bars. The=
y may even recommend a better panel.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto">=C2=A0I&#39;m under the impression that you can&#39;t connect multip=
le wires in a breaker lug. Even had a home inspector write up two wires on =
the same breaker as a violation.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"aut=
o">Brian</div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote">On Apr 14, 2021 8:22 AM, Jack Brooks &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:JIBrook=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"=
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;times new roman&#39;,seri=
f;color:#002060">Mark,</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;times new roman&#39;,seri=
f;color:#002060">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;times new roman&#39;,seri=
f;color:#002060">Yes, that screw down connection is sized for 2/0, so I can=
 squeeze two wires in one side of the circuit and run one over to the other=
 side.=C2=A0 This seemed logical,
 but I just wanted to be sure that it was a reasonable solution.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;times new roman&#39;,seri=
f;color:#002060">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;times new roman&#39;,seri=
f;color:#002060">Thank you,</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;times new roman&#39;,seri=
f;color:#002060">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;times new roman&#39;,seri=
f;color:#002060">Jack</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;times new roman&#39;,seri=
f;color:#002060">=C2=A0</span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in =
0in">
<p><b>From:</b> Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]=
t</a>&gt; <b>
On Behalf Of </b>Mark Miller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 14, 2021 12:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" re=
l=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] Square D QO breaker Box</p>
</div>
</div>
<p>=C2=A0</p>
<p>It is designed to be fed by 240V (2 phase 120) power.=C2=A0 If you are f=
eeding it with a single leg of 120V just tie the two main lugs together and=
 run that from your power source.=C2=A0 The lugs should be large enough to =
have your incoming power go into one and then
 have a second wire in that lug feed the other lug.</p>
<pre>Regards,</pre>
<pre>=C2=A0</pre>
<pre>Mark Miller=C2=A0=C2=A0 707-490-5834</pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a></pre>
<div>
<p>On 4/13/2021 10:01 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">
[email-masked]</a> wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<pre>-----Original Message-----</pre>
<pre>From: David Scheidt <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_=
blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> </pre>
<pre>Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2021 7:58 PM</pre>
<pre>To: Jack Brooks <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>Cc: Shop Talk <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank" rel=3D"noreferrer">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Square D QO breaker Box</pre>
<pre>=C2=A0</pre>
<pre>On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 6:39 PM Jack Brooks <a href=3D"mailto:JIBrooks=
@live.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</=
a> wrote:</pre>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<pre><span style=3D"color:#007cff">I am building a Sprinter van into an RV =
and have a question about the 120v breaker box (SquareD QO24L70RBCP).=C2=A0=
 It is a 2-Space, 4-Circuit load center.=C2=A0 My concern is that while the=
 Neutral bar has four positions on a common bar, the two breaker connection=
s are independent, without a common bar between the two.=C2=A0 This surpris=
ed the heck out of me. My inverter (Victron 24/70/3000)=C2=A0 has a single =
AC output with a ?cage clamp? terminal, not a screw down or stud terminal w=
hich would be easy. I can run a 6 or 8 AWG from the inverter to the Breaker=
 box, but it needs to go to the two separate screw down terminals.=C2=A0 Ph=
ysically, I believe I can run an 8 AWG wire into one breaker, and then back=
 out to the other breaker, but I?m concerned about whether this is a code v=
iolation.</span></pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>______________________________________________=
_<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer">[email-masked]</a><br>
errer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</=
a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><b=
r>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

--===============7997683272892295069==--

---

From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 13:41:40 -0500

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> On Apr 14, 2021, at 13:10, Brian K <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> I'd reach out to Square D and see their recommendation for 120v options. T=
here may be a bus bar jumper designed to connect the bars. They may even rec=
ommend a better panel.

In olden days, there is were 120v 2 wire panels. They were commonly called =E2=
=80=9Cwoodshed =E2=80=9C panels, and were used in farm outbuildings.  You ha=
d more than a single circuit load, but not much more, and it saved a wire. I=
 don=E2=80=99t know if any one still makes them. =20

>=20
>  I'm under the impression that you can't connect multiple wires in a break=
er lug. Even had a home inspector write up two wires on the same breaker as a=
 violation

In general you can=E2=80=99t have two wires under a lug. They are not design=
ed for it, and can come loose. You can put more than one ground wire under a=
 screw if the bar is listed for that ( most are). You cant put more than one=
 neutral under a bus screw, because of the risk of disconnecting a neutral f=
rom a live circuit.=20

Some breakers, notably homeline ones, are rated for two wires.  Inspectors s=
till call it out, because it=E2=80=99s on their checklist. (The guy who insp=
ected my house called that out, but not the 50a 120v breakers with 14 gauge w=
ire.  What the hell uses 50a 120v, btw? They had done it so outlets didn=E2=80=
=99t trip the breaker.  ).=20

>=20
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Yes, that screw down connection is sized for 2/0, so I can squeeze two wir=
es in one side of the circuit and run one over to the other side.  This seem=
ed logical, but I just wanted to be sure that it was a reasonable solution.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Thank you,
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Jack
>=20
> =20
>=20
> From: Shop-talk <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Mark Mille=
r
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 12:19 AM
> To: [email-masked]
>=20
> =20
>=20
> It is designed to be fed by 240V (2 phase 120) power.  If you are feeding i=
t with a single leg of 120V just tie the two main lugs together and run that=
 from your power source.  The lugs should be large enough to have your incom=
ing power go into one and then have a second wire in that lug feed the other=
 lug.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>=20
> To: Jack Brooks <[email-masked]>
> Cc: Shop Talk <[email-masked]>
> =20
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 6:39 PM Jack Brooks <[email-masked]> wrote:
> I am building a Sprinter van into an RV and have a question about the 120v=
 breaker box (SquareD QO24L70RBCP).  It is a 2-Space, 4-Circuit load center.=
  My concern is that while the Neutral bar has four positions on a common ba=
r, the two breaker connections are independent, without a common bar between=
 the two.  This surprised the heck out of me. My inverter (Victron 24/70/300=
0)  has a single AC output with a ?cage clamp? terminal, not a screw down or=
 stud terminal which would be easy. I can run a 6 or 8 AWG from the inverter=
 to the Breaker box, but it needs to go to the two separate screw down termi=
nals.  Physically, I believe I can run an 8 AWG wire into one breaker, and t=
hen back out to the other breaker, but I?m concerned about whether this is a=
 code violation.
>=20
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc=
hive
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dmsche=
[email-masked]
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Apr 14, 2021, at 13:10, Brian K &lt;bk13@e=
arthlink.net&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite">=
<div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"auto">I'd reach out to Square D and se=
e their recommendation for 120v options. There may be a bus bar jumper desig=
ned to connect the bars. They may even recommend a better panel.</div></div>=
</blockquote><div><br></div>In olden days, there is were 120v 2 wire panels.=
 They were commonly called =E2=80=9Cwoodshed =E2=80=9C panels, and were used=
 in farm outbuildings. &nbsp;You had more than a single circuit load, but no=
t much more, and it saved a wire. I don=E2=80=99t know if any one still make=
s them. &nbsp;<div><br></div><div><br><div><br></div><div><br><blockquote ty=
pe=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><=
div dir=3D"auto">&nbsp;I'm under the impression that you can't connect multi=
ple wires in a breaker lug. Even had a home inspector write up two wires on t=
he same breaker as a violation</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>=
<div>In general you can=E2=80=99t have two wires under a lug. They are not d=
esigned for it, and can come loose. You can put more than one ground wire un=
der a screw if the bar is listed for that ( most are). You cant put more tha=
n one neutral under a bus screw, because of the risk of disconnecting a neut=
ral from a live circuit.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Some breakers, notab=
ly homeline ones, are rated for two wires. &nbsp;Inspectors still call it ou=
t, because it=E2=80=99s on their checklist. (The guy who inspected my house c=
alled that out, but not the 50a 120v breakers with 14 gauge wire. &nbsp;What=
 the hell uses 50a 120v, btw? They had done it so outlets didn=E2=80=99t tri=
p the breaker. &nbsp;).&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=
=3D"auto">Brian</div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote">On Apr 14, 2021 8:22 AM, Jack Brooks &lt;[email-masked]&gt;=
 wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-w=
rap:break-word">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:'times new roman' , serif;color=
:#002060">Mark,</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:'times new roman' , serif;color=
:#002060">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:'times new roman' , serif;color=
:#002060">Yes, that screw down connection is sized for 2/0, so I can squeeze=
 two wires in one side of the circuit and run one over to the other side.&nb=
sp; This seemed logical,
 but I just wanted to be sure that it was a reasonable solution.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:'times new roman' , serif;color=
:#002060">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:'times new roman' , serif;color=
:#002060">Thank you,</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:'times new roman' , serif;color=
:#002060">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:'times new roman' , serif;color=
:#002060">Jack</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:'times new roman' , serif;color=
:#002060">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in 0=
in">
<p><b>From:</b> Shop-talk &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>
On Behalf Of </b>Mark Miller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 14, 2021 12:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> [email-masked]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] Square D QO breaker Box</p>
</div>
</div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>It is designed to be fed by 240V (2 phase 120) power.&nbsp; If you are fe=
eding it with a single leg of 120V just tie the two main lugs together and r=
un that from your power source.&nbsp; The lugs should be large enough to hav=
e your incoming power go into one and then
 have a second wire in that lug feed the other lug.</p>
<pre>Regards,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Mark Miller&nbsp;&nbsp; 707-490-5834</pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">markmiller@threeboysfar=
m.com</a></pre>
<div>
<p>On 4/13/2021 10:01 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
">
[email-masked]</a> wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<pre>-----Original Message-----</pre>
<pre>From: David Scheidt <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;dmscheid=
[email-masked]&gt;</a> </pre>
<pre>Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2021 7:58 PM</pre>
<pre>To: Jack Brooks <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;JIBrooks@live.=
com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>Cc: Shop Talk <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;shop-talk=
@autox.team.net&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Square D QO breaker Box</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 6:39 PM Jack Brooks <a href=3D"mailto:JIBrooks@=
live.com">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote:</pre>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<pre><span style=3D"color:#007cff">I am building a Sprinter van into an RV a=
nd have a question about the 120v breaker box (SquareD QO24L70RBCP).&nbsp; I=
t is a 2-Space, 4-Circuit load center.&nbsp; My concern is that while the Ne=
utral bar has four positions on a common bar, the two breaker connections ar=
e independent, without a common bar between the two.&nbsp; This surprised th=
e heck out of me. My inverter (Victron 24/70/3000)&nbsp; has a single AC out=
put with a ?cage clamp? terminal, not a screw down or stud terminal which wo=
uld be easy. I can run a 6 or 8 AWG from the inverter to the Breaker box, bu=
t it needs to go to the two separate screw down terminals.&nbsp; Physically,=
 I believe I can run an 8 AWG wire into one breaker, and then back out to th=
e other breaker, but I?m concerned about whether this is a code violation.</=
span></pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div><span>_________________________________________=
______</span><br><span></span><br><span>[email-masked]</span><br><=
span>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html</span><br><span>Suggested annua=
l donation &nbsp;$12.96</span><br><span>Archive: http://www.team.net/piperma=
il/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive</span><br><span></span><br><span>=
[email-masked]</span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div></body=
></html>=

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[email-masked]

--===============2646270695447201471==--

---

From: Jack Brooks <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 21:08:53 +0000

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From: Jack Brooks <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 21:10:57 +0000

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[email-masked]

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From: Jack Brooks <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 17:05:16 +0000

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[email-masked]

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