Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Need expertise: External halogen floodlight replacement

From: Donald H Locker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 19:15:51 -0500

Whatever you install, I would recommend avoiding "daylight" colour LED
luminaires. They will ruin your night vision so places that are not
brightly illuminated will appear even darker.

Unless you plan to do surgery, go with the least illumination that
provides sufficient light to see what you need. More than that wastes
dollars and electricity and pollutes the night sky. And shuts off your
night vision so the rest of the property is less safe.

--
Donald.
--

On 2021-02-15 6:57 p.m., The Corvair Kid wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am looking into replacing two long-serving halogen floodlights on the
> exterior of my shop with LED units. I could use some help from the group
> in understanding what choices provide an apples-to-apples replacement
> (or better), in terms of overall brightness and similar coverage.
> 
> The existing units are Heath/Zenith Model SL-5525. A picture of one of
> them is attached, as are pictures of a couple of pages of the
> installation instructions (yes, I saved them from nearly 20 years ago!).
> These units each use a single 250-Watt T3 bulb, which the Interwebz
> claims provide 4000 lumens. The lights are mounted approximately 15 feet
> above ground and shine onto a bare concrete driveway.
> 
> As you can see, these units have both motion and light sensors, the
> functionality of which I intend to carry forward into any LED
> replacements being considered. In addition, I do not wish to remove or
> replace the existing electrical box extensions mounted on the shop
> exterior. The wood is clear cedar and I don’t want to deal with fading
> or differing hole sizes. I realize that this constrains my replacement
> choices a fair amount, since (it appears) relatively-few LED lights use
> a standard round mounting plate. The mounting location under the eave
> also restricts the size of any replacement fixture. (Some high-lumen
> LEDs that I have found are quite large in size.)
> 
> With help from an electrical and lighting supplier near me, one
> candidate (the only one so far) is made by OLF. A spec sheet is
> attached. As you can see, the manufacturer claims that the two LED heads
> provide a total of 2160 lumens. The lighting supplier said that, due to
> the directionality of LEDs, 1/2 the number of lumens are needed for
> equivalent brightness to halogen.
> 
> So, group – any comments or recommendations would be most helpful. Do
> you agree with the “LEDs can have 50% fewer lumens” claim? Any knowledge
> or experience about the coverage (“cone”) of a single halogen vs. 2 LEDs
> at ~15 feet height? Anything else I should consider?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  
> 
> --Kent
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

utox.team.net

---

From: John Innis <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 18:40:13 -0600

--===============1925529034736534865==

--0000000000001c07c605bb6959c4
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Depends on what you are looking for in terms of useful lighting.  Are you
just needing a little light to get into the house on dark nights?  Are you
shooting hoops on the driveway?  Working on cars outside on the drive?  The
task determines what level of illumination you need.  I installed high
lumen (22,000) LED floods for working on equipment outside the barn, but
these are aimed for horizon cutoff and are only used while working
outside.  For just enough light to get in the barn door I use 1000 lumen
LED's in a shaded fixture on a motion sensor.

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 6:03 PM The Corvair Kid <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> exterior of my shop with LED units. I could use some help from the group =
in
> understanding what choices provide an apples-to-apples replacement (or
> better), in terms of overall brightness and similar coverage.
>
>
>
> them is attached, as are pictures of a couple of pages of the installatio=
n
> instructions (yes, I saved them from nearly 20 years ago!). These units
> each use a single 250-Watt T3 bulb, which the Interwebz claims provide 40=
00
> lumens. The lights are mounted approximately 15 feet above ground and shi=
ne
> onto a bare concrete driveway.
>
>
>
> functionality of which I intend to carry forward into any LED replacement=
s
> being considered. In addition, I do not wish to remove or replace the
> existing electrical box extensions mounted on the shop exterior. The wood
> is clear cedar and I don=E2=80=99t want to deal with fading or differing =
hole
> sizes. I realize that this constrains my replacement choices a fair amoun=
t,
> since (it appears) relatively-few LED lights use a standard round mountin=
g
> plate. The mounting location under the eave also restricts the size of an=
y
> replacement fixture. (Some high-lumen LEDs that I have found are quite
> large in size.)
>
>
>
> With help from an electrical and lighting supplier near me, one candidate
> (the only one so far) is made by OLF. A spec sheet is attached. As you ca=
n
> see, the manufacturer claims that the two LED heads provide a total of 21=
60
> lumens. The lighting supplier said that, due to the directionality of LED=
s,
> 1/2 the number of lumens are needed for equivalent brightness to halogen.
>
>
>
> So, group =E2=80=93 any comments or recommendations would be most helpful=
. Do you
> agree with the =E2=80=9CLEDs can have 50% fewer lumens=E2=80=9D claim? An=
y knowledge or
> experience about the coverage (=E2=80=9Ccone=E2=80=9D) of a single haloge=
n vs. 2 LEDs at
> ~15 feet height? Anything else I should consider?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> --Kent
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D Never offend people with style when you   =3D
=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

--0000000000001c07c605bb6959c4
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Depends on what you are looking for in terms of useful lig=
hting.=C2=A0 Are you just needing a little light to get into the house on d=
ark nights?=C2=A0 Are you shooting hoops on the driveway?=C2=A0 Working on =
cars outside on the drive?=C2=A0 The task determines what level of illumina=
tion you need.=C2=A0 I installed high lumen (22,000) LED floods for working=
 on equipment outside the barn, but these are aimed for horizon cutoff and =
are only used while working outside.=C2=A0 For just enough light to get in =
the barn door I use 1000 lumen LED&#39;s in a shaded fixture on a motion se=
nsor.=C2=A0 <br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 6:03 PM The Corvair Kid &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10=
pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">Hi all,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">I =
am looking into replacing two long-serving halogen floodlights on the exter=
ior of my shop with LED units. I could use some help from the group in unde=
rstanding what choices provide an apples-to-apples replacement (or better),=
 in terms of overall brightness and similar coverage.<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;A=
rial&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">T=
he existing units are Heath/Zenith Model SL-5525. A picture of one of them =
is attached, as are pictures of a couple of pages of the installation instr=
uctions (yes, I saved them from nearly 20 years ago!). These units each use=
 a single 250-Watt T3 bulb, which the Interwebz claims provide 4000 lumens.=
 The lights are mounted approximately 15 feet above ground and shine onto a=
 bare concrete driveway.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10=
pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">As you can see, these units ha=
ve both motion and light sensors, the functionality of which I intend to ca=
rry forward into any LED replacements being considered. In addition, I do n=
ot wish to remove or replace the existing electrical box extensions mounted=
 on the shop exterior. The wood is clear cedar and I don=E2=80=99t want to =
deal with fading or differing hole sizes. I realize that this constrains my=
 replacement choices a fair amount, since (it appears) relatively-few LED l=
ights use a standard round mounting plate. The mounting location under the =
eave also restricts the size of any replacement fixture. (Some high-lumen L=
EDs that I have found are quite large in size.)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&q=
uot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">With he=
lp from an electrical and lighting supplier near me, one candidate (the onl=
y one so far) is made by OLF. A spec sheet is attached. As you can see, the=
 manufacturer claims that the two LED heads provide a total of 2160 lumens.=
 The lighting supplier said that, due to the directionality of LEDs, 1/2 th=
e number of lumens are needed for equivalent brightness to halogen.<u></u><=
u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;=
,sans-serif">So, group =E2=80=93 any comments or recommendations would be m=
ost helpful. Do you agree with the =E2=80=9CLEDs can have 50% fewer lumens=
=E2=80=9D claim? Any knowledge or experience about the coverage (=E2=80=9Cc=
one=E2=80=9D) of a single halogen vs. 2 LEDs at ~15 feet height? Anything e=
lse I should consider?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10p=
t;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">--K=
ent<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div>___________________________________=
____________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr">=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>=3D Never offend people with style when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
=3D<br>=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</div>

--0000000000001c07c605bb6959c4--

--===============1925529034736534865==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

[email-masked]

--===============1925529034736534865==--

---

From: Paul Parkanzky <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:23:19 -0500

--===============2002306984874910008==

--0000000000003138b905bb89cd6a
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have a barn/shop that is in a rural area a few miles from my house. It's
in a very poor neighborhood so security is a concern. I have one of these
mounted on the front under the peak (probably about 15' up?) and another
ready to go up on the back when it's not -6 outside.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B085W9HFJP/ref=3Dppx_yo_dt_b_search_asi=
n_title?ie=3DUTF8&psc=3D1

I believe I put a round box up for it? I don't recall anymore as it was a
few months ago.

I intentionally point the heads pretty far down so they don't shine at the
homeowner across the street's house but they very easily illuminate the
drive/yard between the barn and the street, which is probably about 60'. I
also have a Wyze camera hung right next to it and it does a great job of
recording "events" when something triggers the motion sensor and the
light comes on. That usually means a half-dozen videos every week of cats
walking across the front of the barn at night... You do have to get within
about 20' of the barn to trigger the motion sensor on the lights. I'm not
sure if I have the sensitivity turned all the way up but it probably is.

For security lights I like the higher color temperature bulbs. They just
"look brighter" and the idea is for whomever triggered them to feel very
well illuminated.

Best Regards,

-Paul

in
n
00
ne
s
hole
t,
g
y
n
60
s,
. Do you
y knowledge or
n vs. 2 LEDs at
> ~15 feet height? Anything else I should consider?

--0000000000003138b905bb89cd6a
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I have a barn/shop that is in a rural area a few mile=
s from my=C2=A0house. It&#39;s in a very poor neighborhood so security is a=
 concern. I have one of these mounted on the front under the peak (probably=
 about 15&#39; up?) and another ready to go up on the back when it&#39;s no=
t -6 outside.</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://smile.amazon.com/=
gp/product/B085W9HFJP/ref=3Dppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=3DUTF8&amp;psc=
=3D1">https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B085W9HFJP/ref=3Dppx_yo_dt_b_sear=
ch_asin_title?ie=3DUTF8&amp;psc=3D1</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>I beli=
eve I put a round box up for it? I don&#39;t recall anymore as it was a few=
 months ago.</div><div><br></div><div>I intentionally point the heads prett=
y far down so they don&#39;t shine at the homeowner across the street&#39;s=
 house but they very easily illuminate the drive/yard between the barn and =
the street, which is probably about 60&#39;. I also have=C2=A0a Wyze camera=
 hung right next to it and it does a great job of recording &quot;events&qu=
ot; when something triggers the motion sensor and the light=C2=A0comes on. =
That usually means a half-dozen videos every week of cats walking across th=
e front of the barn at night... You do have to get within about 20&#39; of =
the barn to trigger the motion sensor on the lights. I&#39;m not sure if I =
have the sensitivity turned all the way up but it probably is.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>For security lights I like the higher color temperature bulbs.=
 They just &quot;look brighter&quot; and the idea is for whomever triggered=
 them to feel very well illuminated.</div><div><br></div><div>Best Regards,=
</div><div><br></div><div>-Paul</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div di=
r=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 7:03 PM The Corvair =
Kid &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div class=3D"gmai=
l-m_7674318494757900683WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Hi all,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sa=
ns-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">I am looking into replacin=
g two long-serving halogen floodlights on the exterior of my shop with LED =
units. I could use some help from the group in understanding what choices p=
rovide an apples-to-apples replacement (or better), in terms of overall bri=
ghtness and similar coverage.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0=
<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font=
-family:Arial,sans-serif">The existing units are Heath/Zenith Model SL-5525=
. A picture of one of them is attached, as are pictures of a couple of page=
s of the installation instructions (yes, I saved them from nearly 20 years =
ago!). These units each use a single 250-Watt T3 bulb, which the Interwebz =
claims provide 4000 lumens. The lights are mounted approximately 15 feet ab=
ove ground and shine onto a bare concrete driveway.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,san=
s-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">As you can see, these unit=
s have both motion and light sensors, the functionality of which I intend t=
o carry forward into any LED replacements being considered. In addition, I =
do not wish to remove or replace the existing electrical box extensions mou=
nted on the shop exterior. The wood is clear cedar and I don=E2=80=99t want=
 to deal with fading or differing hole sizes. I realize that this constrain=
s my replacement choices a fair amount, since (it appears) relatively-few L=
ED lights use a standard round mounting plate. The mounting location under =
the eave also restricts the size of any replacement fixture. (Some high-lum=
en LEDs that I have found are quite large in size.)<u></u><u></u></span></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,san=
s-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">With help from an electric=
al and lighting supplier near me, one candidate (the only one so far) is ma=
de by OLF. A spec sheet is attached. As you can see, the manufacturer claim=
s that the two LED heads provide a total of 2160 lumens. The lighting suppl=
ier said that, due to the directionality of LEDs, 1/2 the number of lumens =
are needed for equivalent brightness to halogen.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-s=
erif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">So, group =E2=80=93 any commen=
ts or recommendations would be most helpful. Do you agree with the =E2=80=
=9CLEDs can have 50% fewer lumens=E2=80=9D claim? Any knowledge or experien=
ce about the coverage (=E2=80=9Ccone=E2=80=9D) of a single halogen vs. 2 LE=
Ds at ~15 feet height? Anything else I should consider?<u></u><u></u></span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial=
,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:A=
rial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">--Kent<u></u><u></u=
></span></p></div></div><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--0000000000003138b905bb89cd6a--

--===============2002306984874910008==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

[email-masked]

--===============2002306984874910008==--