Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug

From: Donald H Locker <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 12:35:09 -0500

I would look for a threaded plug into the coolant jacket in a shop
manual. I remember planning to buy a block heater for my wife's Scion
and the instructions actually had a drawing of where the plug was (in
this case it was above the intake manifold in an "odd" location.)

In any case, if they are talking about threading into a plug, it isn't
going into a core plug hole, which are smooth. (No reason to thread it;
that just costs money.) I read somewhere that the port is in the "rear
right position" so passenger side of the engine, toward the firewall.
(If I find more, I'll followup.)

Donald.
--
*Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
() no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\ <https://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml>

On 2021-01-14 12:20 p.m., Scott Hall wrote:
> This is mostly theory.
> 
> One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia
> with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question).
> 
> Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything
> about all cars--he's asking for help.
> 
> He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions
> are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just
> says "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in
> heater, refill coolant, etc.
> 
> The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft.
> 
> The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think.
> 
> Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to
> tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to
> drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no
> threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug
> presses in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze
> plug to reinstall.
> 
> So I guess my questions to the list are:
> 
> 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the
> whole purpose of allowing it to pop out.
> 
> 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug
> presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it?
> 
> We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is
> correct. It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other
> than, "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then
> be screwed.
> 
> YouTube similarly has nothing relevant.
> 
> Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over
> and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at?
> 
> Thanks.
> 

_______________________________________________

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From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:36:59 -0600

Call the Kia dealer. They should know. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity

On Jan 14, 2021, at 11:22 AM, Scott Hall <[email-masked]> wrote:

This is mostly theory.

One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question).

Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything about all cars--he's asking for help.

He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just says "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in heater, refill coolant, etc.

Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze plug to reinstall.

1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the whole purpose of allowing it to pop out.

2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it?

We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is correct. It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other than, "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then be screwed.

Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at?

Thanks.

[email-masked]

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

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---

From: Donald H Locker <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 12:38:27 -0500

This link has an extensive list of heaters and locations:
https://cdn.website.thryv.com/8c0139bc430e489cb98d24f13d5a80b2/files/uploaded/Kats%202017%5B1%5D.pdf

HTH,
Donald.
--

> about all cars--he's asking for help.

[snip]

[email-masked]

---

From: Scott Hall <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:41:12 -0600

--===============5377333126890382345==

--00000000000027061605b8dfc56c

That's exactly what the instructions say--right rear of the engine.

So you're thinking "plug" doesn't mean a freeze or expansion plug but
rather just a threaded port into the coolant jacket?

That would make more sense to me.

> (If I find more, I'll followup.)

--00000000000027061605b8dfc56c
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">That&#39;s exactly what the instructions say--right rear o=
f the engine.<div><br></div><div>So you&#39;re thinking &quot;plug&quot; do=
esn&#39;t mean a freeze or expansion plug but rather just a threaded port i=
nto the coolant jacket?</div><div><br></div><div>That would make more sense=
 to me.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:35 AM Donald H Locker &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I would look for a thr=
eaded plug into the coolant jacket in a shop<br>
manual. I remember planning to buy a block heater for my wife&#39;s Scion<b=
r>
and the instructions actually had a drawing of where the plug was (in<br>
this case it was above the intake manifold in an &quot;odd&quot; location.)=
<br>
<br>
In any case, if they are talking about threading into a plug, it isn&#39;t<=
br>
going into a core plug hole, which are smooth. (No reason to thread it;<br>
that just costs money.) I read somewhere that the port is in the &quot;rear=
<br>
right position&quot; so passenger side of the engine, toward the firewall.<=
br>
(If I find more, I&#39;ll followup.)<br>
<br>
Donald.<br>
--<br>
*Plain Text* email -- it&#39;s an accessibility issue<br>
() no proprietary attachments; no html mail<br>
/\ &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml=
" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.georgedillon.com/web/htm=
l_email_is_evil.shtml</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
On 2021-01-14 12:20 p.m., Scott Hall wrote:<br>
&gt; This is mostly theory.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it&#39;s a K=
ia<br>
&gt; with a 3.3L engine (though I don&#39;t think that matters for the ques=
tion).<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Since he thinks I&#39;m a car guy--which in his head means I know ever=
ything<br>
&gt; about all cars--he&#39;s asking for help.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; He brought in the instructions=C2=A0and the heater itself. The instruc=
tions<br>
&gt; are pretty simple: drain coolant, &quot;remove plug&quot; (quotes mine=
--it just<br>
&gt; says &quot;plug&quot;, so I&#39;m assuming that&#39;s a freeze/expansi=
on plug), screw in<br>
&gt; heater, refill coolant, etc.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft.<=
br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The plug he&#39;s removing probably isn&#39;t...I&#39;d think.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I&#39;m tempte=
d to<br>
&gt; tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is =
to<br>
&gt; drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no<b=
r>
&gt; threads behind it--and I can&#39;t imagine that a press-in freeze plug=
<br>
&gt; presses in to a threaded hole--then he&#39;s just going to need a new =
freeze<br>
&gt; plug to reinstall.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; So I guess my questions to the list are:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat t=
he<br>
&gt; whole purpose of allowing it to pop out.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug<br>
&gt; presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is<br>
&gt; correct. It&#39;s used on several models so they couldn&#39;t say for =
sure other<br>
&gt; than, &quot;it&#39;ll work&quot;. I&#39;d hate to see this kid pull ou=
t a freeze plug then<br>
&gt; be screwed.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; YouTube similarly has nothing relevant.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive ove=
r<br>
&gt; and roll under the car to see what I&#39;m looking at?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

--===============5377333126890382345==--

---

From: Scott Hall <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:45:03 -0600

--===============6526236082432781742==

--000000000000f18cec05b8dfd245

Yup, that's the thing I'm looking at.

I guess I need to look for a threaded port on the right rear of the engine,
not a freeze plug.

> https://cdn.website.thryv.com/8c0139bc430e489cb98d24f13d5a80b2/files/uploaded/Kats%202017%5B1%5D.pdf

--000000000000f18cec05b8dfd245
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Yup, that&#39;s the thing I&#39;m looking at.<div><br></di=
v><div>I guess I need to look for a threaded port on the right rear of the =
engine, not a freeze plug.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:38 AM Donald H L=
ocker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">This =
link has an extensive list of heaters and locations:<br>
<a href=3D"https://cdn.website.thryv.com/8c0139bc430e489cb98d24f13d5a80b2/f=
iles/uploaded/Kats%202017%5B1%5D.pdf" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
https://cdn.website.thryv.com/8c0139bc430e489cb98d24f13d5a80b2/files/upload=
ed/Kats%202017%5B1%5D.pdf</a><br>
<br>
HTH,<br>
Donald.<br>
--<br>
<br>
On 2021-01-14 12:20 p.m., Scott Hall wrote:<br>
&gt; This is mostly theory.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it&#39;s a K=
ia<br>
&gt; with a 3.3L engine (though I don&#39;t think that matters for the ques=
tion).<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Since he thinks I&#39;m a car guy--which in his head means I know ever=
ything<br>
&gt; about all cars--he&#39;s asking for help.<br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
[snip]<br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000f18cec05b8dfd245--

--===============6526236082432781742==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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[email-masked]

--===============6526236082432781742==--

---

From: John Innis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:46:26 -0600

--===============3397678444029745368==

--000000000000645c4705b8dfd6ab

There are different styles of those heaters.  Some intended to install in a
freeze plug, some intended for go in a radiator hose, and some intended to
go in place of a drain plug or port plug.  It sounds like he has one that
is meant to go in a drain plug?

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:22 AM Scott Hall <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> This is mostly theory.
>
> One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia with
> a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question).
>
> He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions are
> pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just says
> "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in heater,
> refill coolant, etc.
>
> threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses
> in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze plug to
> reinstall.
>
> 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug presses
> into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it?
>
> We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is correct.
> It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other than,
> "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then be
> screwed.
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================

--000000000000645c4705b8dfd6ab
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">There are different styles of those heaters.=C2=A0 Some in=
tended to install in a freeze plug, some intended for go in a radiator hose=
, and some intended to go in place of a drain plug or port plug.=C2=A0 It s=
ounds like he has one that is meant to go in a drain plug?<br></div><br><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 1=
4, 2021 at 11:22 AM Scott Hall &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:scott.hall.personal@gm=
ail.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">This is mostly theor=
y.<div><br></div><div>One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his =
car--it&#39;s a Kia with a 3.3L engine (though I don&#39;t think that matte=
rs for the question).</div><div><br></div><div>Since he thinks I&#39;m a ca=
r guy--which in his head means I know everything about all cars--he&#39;s a=
sking for help.</div><div><br></div><div>He brought in the instructions=C2=
=A0and the heater itself. The instructions are pretty simple: drain coolant=
, &quot;remove plug&quot; (quotes mine--it just says &quot;plug&quot;, so I=
&#39;m assuming that&#39;s a freeze/expansion plug), screw in heater, refil=
l coolant, etc.</div><div><br></div><div>The heater to install is threaded.=
 It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft.</div><div><br></div><div>The plug he&#3=
9;s removing probably isn&#39;t...I&#39;d think.</div><div><br></div><div>O=
bviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I&#39;m tempted to t=
ell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to dri=
ll a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no threads b=
ehind it--and I can&#39;t imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses in to=
 a threaded hole--then he&#39;s just going to need a new freeze plug to rei=
nstall.</div><div><br></div><div>So I guess my questions to the list are:</=
div><div><br></div><div>1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That wou=
ld seem to defeat the whole purpose of allowing it to pop out.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the p=
lug presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it?</div><div>=
<br></div><div>We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part numbe=
r is correct. It&#39;s used on several models so they couldn&#39;t say for =
sure other than, &quot;it&#39;ll work&quot;. I&#39;d hate to see this kid p=
ull out a freeze plug then be screwed.</div><div><br></div><div>YouTube sim=
ilarly has nothing relevant.</div><div><br></div><div>Anybody have any expe=
rience with this before I just have him drive over and roll under the car t=
o see what I&#39;m looking at?</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g=
mail_signature">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>=3D Never offend people with =
style when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Bro=
wn=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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[email-masked]

--===============3397678444029745368==--

---

From: Thomas Coradeschi <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 12:48:45 -0500

Scott - there may be a drain plug which is to be removed and replaced with the heater element. My Boxster has one and I think the V6 in my old Passat had two...

Tom Coradeschi
[email-masked]

> On Jan 14, 2021, at 12:22 PM, Scott Hall <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
> This is mostly theory.
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
> 

[email-masked]

---

From: Phil Ethier <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:51:15 -0600

You need to see the part of itself and not just the paperwork.

Has anyone ever actually seen a freeze plug save an engine block?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 14, 2021, at 11:21 AM, Scott Hall <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
> This is mostly theory.
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
> 

[email-masked]

---

From: Scott Hall <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:52:47 -0600

--===============0397135684841441256==

--0000000000008deda105b8dfeec0

It's definitely threaded and it's not the kind that goes into a radiator
line or the ones that just fit dry into a port on the block--this thing is
an element exposed to coolant. It's 24mm. I thought it might be taking over
a drain plug until I saw it, but if that's a drain plug, it's bigger than
any drain plug I've ever seen.

I guess maybe there's just a threaded port in the side of the engine on
spec that people want to install heaters as an option?

I guess either way somebody's going to have to look and find it. At least I
know I'm not looking for a freeze plug.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:46 AM John Innis <[email-masked]> wrote:

> There are different styles of those heaters.  Some intended to install in
> a freeze plug, some intended for go in a radiator hose, and some intended
> to go in place of a drain plug or port plug.  It sounds like he has one
> that is meant to go in a drain plug?
>
>> are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just says

--0000000000008deda105b8dfeec0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">It&#39;s definitely threaded and it&#39;s not the kind tha=
t goes into a radiator line or the ones that just fit dry into a port on th=
e block--this thing is an element exposed to coolant. It&#39;s 24mm. I thou=
ght it might be taking over a drain plug until I saw it, but if that&#39;s =
a drain plug, it&#39;s bigger than any drain plug I&#39;ve ever seen.<div><=
br></div><div>I guess maybe there&#39;s just a threaded port in the side of=
 the engine on spec that people want to install heaters as an option?</div>=
<div><br></div><div>I guess either way somebody&#39;s going to have to look=
 and find it. At least I know I&#39;m not looking for a freeze plug.</div><=
/div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">O=
n Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:46 AM John Innis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdinnis@gm=
ail.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">There are different styles of th=
ose heaters.=C2=A0 Some intended to install in a freeze plug, some intended=
 for go in a radiator hose, and some intended to go in place of a drain plu=
g or port plug.=C2=A0 It sounds like he has one that is meant to go in a dr=
ain plug?<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:22 AM Scott Hall &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">scott.hall.personal@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">This is mostly theory.<div><br></div><div>One of my=
 staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it&#39;s a Kia with a 3.3L=
 engine (though I don&#39;t think that matters for the question).</div><div=
><br></div><div>Since he thinks I&#39;m a car guy--which in his head means =
I know everything about all cars--he&#39;s asking for help.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>He brought in the instructions=C2=A0and the heater itself. The in=
structions are pretty simple: drain coolant, &quot;remove plug&quot; (quote=
s mine--it just says &quot;plug&quot;, so I&#39;m assuming that&#39;s a fre=
eze/expansion plug), screw in heater, refill coolant, etc.</div><div><br></=
div><div>The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. =
ft.</div><div><br></div><div>The plug he&#39;s removing probably isn&#39;t.=
..I&#39;d think.</div><div><br></div><div>Obviously without rolling under t=
he car, who knows? But I&#39;m tempted to tell him to not start--the only w=
ay I know to remove a freeze plug is to drill a hole in it, then pull it ou=
t with something. If there are no threads behind it--and I can&#39;t imagin=
e that a press-in freeze plug presses in to a threaded hole--then he&#39;s =
just going to need a new freeze plug to reinstall.</div><div><br></div><div=
>So I guess my questions to the list are:</div><div><br></div><div>1) anyon=
e ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the whole purp=
ose of allowing it to pop out.</div><div><br></div><div>2) anyone ever see =
threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug presses into a smooth port, =
and there are threads behind it?</div><div><br></div><div>We called the man=
ufacturer who confirmed that the part number is correct. It&#39;s used on s=
everal models so they couldn&#39;t say for sure other than, &quot;it&#39;ll=
 work&quot;. I&#39;d hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then be sc=
rewed.</div><div><br></div><div>YouTube similarly has nothing relevant.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>Anybody have any experience with this before I just h=
ave him drive over and roll under the car to see what I&#39;m looking at?</=
div><div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr">=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>=3D Never offend people with style when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
=3D<br>=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</div>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000008deda105b8dfeec0--

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[email-masked]

--===============0397135684841441256==--

---

From: Scott Hall <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:55:11 -0600

--===============2127009010775949131==

--0000000000001a563c05b8dff7d8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm looking at the thing now. It's this thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DoeJ7wPHaFZ0

I guess we'll have to see if there's a large threaded plug on the right
rear of the engine.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:51 AM Phil Ethier <[email-masked]> wrote:

> > On Jan 14, 2021, at 11:21 AM, Scott Hall <[email-masked]=
>
> wrote:
> >
> > =EF=BB=BF
> > This is mostly theory.
> >
> > Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everythin=
g
> are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just say=
s
> threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug presse=
s
> > 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat th=
e
> than, "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then =
be
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
> >
>

--0000000000001a563c05b8dff7d8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;m looking at the thing now. It&#39;s this thing:<div=
><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DoeJ7wPHaFZ0">h=
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DoeJ7wPHaFZ0</a><br></div><div><br></div><d=
iv>I guess we&#39;ll have to see if there&#39;s a large threaded=C2=A0plug =
on the right rear of the engine.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:51 AM Phil=
 Ethier &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">You nee=
d to see the part of itself and not just the paperwork.<br>
<br>
Has anyone ever actually seen a freeze plug save an engine block?<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
&gt; On Jan 14, 2021, at 11:21 AM, Scott Hall &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:scott.h=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; =EF=BB=BF<br>
&gt; This is mostly theory.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it&#39;s a K=
ia with a 3.3L engine (though I don&#39;t think that matters for the questi=
on).<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Since he thinks I&#39;m a car guy--which in his head means I know ever=
ything about all cars--he&#39;s asking for help.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions=
 are pretty simple: drain coolant, &quot;remove plug&quot; (quotes mine--it=
 just says &quot;plug&quot;, so I&#39;m assuming that&#39;s a freeze/expans=
ion plug), screw in heater, refill coolant, etc.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft.<=
br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The plug he&#39;s removing probably isn&#39;t...I&#39;d think.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I&#39;m tempte=
d to tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is =
to drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no thr=
eads behind it--and I can&#39;t imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses=
 in to a threaded hole--then he&#39;s just going to need a new freeze plug =
to reinstall.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; So I guess my questions to the list are:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat t=
he whole purpose of allowing it to pop out.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug pres=
ses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is corre=
ct. It&#39;s used on several models so they couldn&#39;t say for sure other=
 than, &quot;it&#39;ll work&quot;. I&#39;d hate to see this kid pull out a =
freeze plug then be screwed.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; YouTube similarly has nothing relevant.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive ove=
r and roll under the car to see what I&#39;m looking at?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-tal=
[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
&gt; Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96<br>
&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"no=
referrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/s=
hop-talk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://au=
tox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; <br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000001a563c05b8dff7d8--

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[email-masked]

--===============2127009010775949131==--

---

From: Donald H Locker <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 12:55:58 -0500

I must admit that it all looked good when I found their chart but the
more I looked, the less it made sense. Sorry. Now I'm not sure it's
really as useful as it seemed.

But, I still think you'll be looking for a threaded plug to remove. If
it's fitted into a core plug hole, that'll be a very different situation.

Donald.
--
On 2021-01-14 12:45 p.m., Scott Hall wrote:
> I guess I need to look for a threaded port on the right rear of the
> engine, not a freeze plug.
> 
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:38 AM Donald H Locker <[email-masked]
> 

[email-masked]

---

From: Scott Hall <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 12:01:20 -0600

--===============3131605533054979813==

--0000000000002a73d005b8e00dc3
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

And I think the real purpose of a freeze plug is to leak and lead to
impromptu coolant changes. I've never seen one pop out and save a block.

Though I did have an engine freeze once and *not* crack the block--it just
messed up everything else.

g
s
s
e
be
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

--0000000000002a73d005b8e00dc3
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">And I think the real purpose of a freeze plug is to leak a=
nd lead to impromptu coolant changes. I&#39;ve never seen one pop out and s=
ave a block.<div><br></div><div>Though I did have an engine freeze once and=
 *not* crack the block--it just messed up everything else.</div></div><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan=
 14, 2021 at 11:51 AM Phil Ethier &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)=
;padding-left:1ex">You need to see the part of itself and not just the pape=
rwork.<br>
<br>
&gt; <br>

--0000000000002a73d005b8e00dc3--

--===============3131605533054979813==
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[email-masked]

--===============3131605533054979813==--

---

From: Damon Bottorff <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 18:05:07 +0000 (UTC)

--===============4440358882310443882==
	boundary="----=_Part_2063268_709728984.1610647507615"

------=_Part_2063268_709728984.1610647507615
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Most engines have a threaded coolant drain plug in the block. I imagine the=
se devices replace that plug.

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Hall <[email-masked]>
To: Donald H Locker <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 11:41 am
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug

That's exactly what the instructions say--right rear of the engine.
So you're thinking "plug" doesn't mean a freeze or expansion plug but rathe=
r just a threaded port into the coolant jacket?
That would make more sense to me.
On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:35 AM Donald H Locker <[email-masked]> wro=
te:

Donald.

On 2021-01-14 12:20 p.m., Scott Hall wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> He brought in the instructions=C2=A0and the heater itself. The instructio=
ns
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive

[email-masked]

------=_Part_2063268_709728984.1610647507615
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<div style="color:black;font: 10pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Most engines have a threaded coolant drain plug in the block. I imagine these devices replace that plug.<br>
<br>
<br>

<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Scott Hall &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: Donald H Locker &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: [email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 11:41 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug<br>
<br>

<div id="yiv9760739844">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">That's exactly what the instructions say--right rear of the engine.
<div><br clear="none"></div>

<div>So you're thinking "plug" doesn't mean a freeze or expansion plug but rather just a threaded port into the coolant jacket?</div>

<div><br clear="none"></div>

<div>That would make more sense to me.</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv9760739844gmail_quote">
<div class="yiv9760739844yqt3248111651" id="yiv9760739844yqtfd67968">
<div class="yiv9760739844gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:35 AM Donald H Locker &lt;<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear="none"></div>
<blockquote class="yiv9760739844gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">I would look for a threaded plug into the coolant jacket in a shop<br clear="none">
manual. I remember planning to buy a block heater for my wife's Scion<br clear="none">
and the instructions actually had a drawing of where the plug was (in<br clear="none">
this case it was above the intake manifold in an "odd" location.)<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
In any case, if they are talking about threading into a plug, it isn't<br clear="none">
going into a core plug hole, which are smooth. (No reason to thread it;<br clear="none">
that just costs money.) I read somewhere that the port is in the "rear<br clear="none">
right position" so passenger side of the engine, toward the firewall.<br clear="none">
(If I find more, I'll followup.)<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Donald.<br clear="none">
--<br clear="none">
*Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue<br clear="none">
() no proprietary attachments; no html mail<br clear="none">
/\ &lt;<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml">https://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml</a>&gt;<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
On 2021-01-14 12:20 p.m., Scott Hall wrote:<br clear="none">
&gt; This is mostly theory.<br clear="none">
&gt; <br clear="none">
&gt; One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia<br clear="none">
&gt; with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question).<br clear="none">
&gt; <br clear="none">
&gt; Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything<br clear="none">
&gt; about all cars--he's asking for help.<br clear="none">
&gt; <br clear="none">
&gt; He brought in the instructions&nbsp;and the heater itself. The instructions<br clear="none">
&gt; are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just<br clear="none">
&gt; says "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in<br clear="none">
&gt; heater, refill coolant, etc.<br clear="none">
&gt; <br clear="none">
&gt; The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft.<br clear="none">
&gt; <br clear="none">
&gt; The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think.<br clear="none">
&gt; <br clear="none">
&gt; Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to<br clear="none">
&gt; tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to<br clear="none">
&gt; drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no<br clear="none">
&gt; threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug<br clear="none">
&gt; presses in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze<br clear="none">
&gt; plug to reinstall.<br clear="none">
&gt; <br clear="none">
&gt; So I guess my questions to the list are:<br clear="none">
&gt; <br clear="none">
&gt; 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the<br clear="none">
&gt; whole purpose of allowing it to pop out.<br clear="none">
&gt; <br clear="none">
&gt; 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug<br clear="none">
&gt; presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it?<br clear="none">
&gt; <br clear="none">
&gt; We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is<br clear="none">
&gt; correct. It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other<br clear="none">
&gt; than, "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then<br clear="none">
&gt; be screwed.<br clear="none">
&gt; <br clear="none">
&gt; YouTube similarly has nothing relevant.<br clear="none">
&gt; <br clear="none">
&gt; Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over<br clear="none">
&gt; and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at?<br clear="none">
&gt; <br clear="none">
&gt; Thanks.<br clear="none">
&gt; <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</blockquote></div>
</div>

<div class="yiv9760739844yqt3248111651" id="yiv9760739844yqtfd72320">
</div>
</div>
</div>

<div class="yqt3248111651" id="yqtfd58692">_______________________________________________<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br clear="none">Donate: <a shape="rect" href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear="none">Suggested annual donation&nbsp; $12.96<br clear="none">Archive: <a shape="rect" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk </a><a shape="rect" href="http://autox.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape="rect" href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
</div>
</div>

------=_Part_2063268_709728984.1610647507615--

--===============4440358882310443882==
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[email-masked]

--===============4440358882310443882==--

---

From: John Innis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 12:24:18 -0600

--===============8847201393641433058==

--000000000000dfd4f005b8e05d45
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

We had a freeze plug do it's job.  This was on a 4-cyl MerCruiser I/O
block, 1980's vintage, which I THINK was just a reworked GM Iron Duke
motor.  Boat was out of the water for the season, but we got a sudden
freeze before we could flush the jacket.  One freeze plug came all the way
out, another came part way out.  No cracks in the block.

g
s
s
e
be
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D Never offend people with style when you   =3D
=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

--000000000000dfd4f005b8e05d45
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">We had a freeze plug do it&#39;s job.=C2=A0 This was on a =
4-cyl MerCruiser I/O block, 1980&#39;s vintage, which I THINK was just a re=
worked GM Iron Duke motor.=C2=A0 Boat was out of the water for the season, =
but we got a sudden freeze before we could flush the jacket.=C2=A0 One free=
ze plug came all the way out, another came part way out.=C2=A0 No cracks in=
 the block. =C2=A0<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 12:07 PM Phil Ethier &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">You need to see the par=
t of itself and not just the paperwork.<br>
<br>
Has anyone ever actually seen a freeze plug save an engine block?<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
&gt; On Jan 14, 2021, at 11:21 AM, Scott Hall &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:scott.h=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; =EF=BB=BF<br>
&gt; This is mostly theory.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it&#39;s a K=
ia with a 3.3L engine (though I don&#39;t think that matters for the questi=
on).<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Since he thinks I&#39;m a car guy--which in his head means I know ever=
ything about all cars--he&#39;s asking for help.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions=
 are pretty simple: drain coolant, &quot;remove plug&quot; (quotes mine--it=
 just says &quot;plug&quot;, so I&#39;m assuming that&#39;s a freeze/expans=
ion plug), screw in heater, refill coolant, etc.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft.<=
br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The plug he&#39;s removing probably isn&#39;t...I&#39;d think.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I&#39;m tempte=
d to tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is =
to drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no thr=
eads behind it--and I can&#39;t imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses=
 in to a threaded hole--then he&#39;s just going to need a new freeze plug =
to reinstall.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; So I guess my questions to the list are:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat t=
he whole purpose of allowing it to pop out.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug pres=
ses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is corre=
ct. It&#39;s used on several models so they couldn&#39;t say for sure other=
 than, &quot;it&#39;ll work&quot;. I&#39;d hate to see this kid pull out a =
freeze plug then be screwed.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; YouTube similarly has nothing relevant.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive ove=
r and roll under the car to see what I&#39;m looking at?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks.<br>
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[email-masked]

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From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 13:09:59 -0600

> On Jan 14, 2021, at 12:07, Phil Ethier <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 

The purpose of the freeze plug is to get the core out of the casting, and create the water jacket. They are not intended to prevent damage from freezing , at least on any modern engine. 

[email-masked]

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From: Thomas Coradeschi <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 18:04:48 -0500

Yes. 68 Plymouth w/ a 383 circa 1978 or so. Pain in the ass to replace them all. 

Tom Coradeschi
[email-masked]

> On Jan 14, 2021, at 1:33 PM, Phil Ethier <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 

[email-masked]

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From: Robert Nogueirao <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2021 08:48:10 -0600

“Freeze Plugs” are not intended to save an engine if frozen. They are a result of needing to get the casting sand out of the block after the casting process.  They could be a treaded fitting or even brazed in place but the steel plug is cheap, quick
to install and MAY pop out if the block is ever frozen. 

Bob Nogueira 

> On Jan 14, 2021, at 12:41 PM, Phil Ethier <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
> 

[email-masked]