Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Using RTV gasket maker

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2020 20:26:53 -0800

Hoo boy ... right up there with 'which tires' and 'which oil.'

For me; depends on the application. On paper gaskets, I like Permatex 
'Aviation Form-A-Gasket #3,' as it cures to a glaze, which is easy to 
remove, and it's less likely to drop a glob in your oil passageways. I 
use blue RTV on valve cover gaskets, though, but I'm careful to use a 
thin bead which shouldn't spread wider than the gasket (I glue the 
gasket to the cover with 3M Upholstery Adhesive--aka 'yellow snot'). For 
metal-to-metal applications, I like Permatex Black Silicone 
Sealant/Adhesive (note if it says 'adhesive' it may be harder to 
separate parts in the future). I used this to seal the brake ring to 
output housing--no gasket required/shouldn't be used--on an overdrive 
and no leaks yet. Permatex 'Right Stuff' is a great sealant and a strong 
adhesive; it or something similar is used in place of gaskets in modern 
cars. It's not meant for easy removal (in fact, it's a bitch).

Timely comment; I just pulled the rear hubs on my BN2 because of leaky 
seals, and found some grit on the backside of the seals (no idea how it 
got there). I think I'll use the black stuff between the brake backing 
plate and the axle bracket--metal-to-metal--to try to prevent that in 
the future.

Bob

On 12/20/2020 8:05 PM, Robert Nogueirao wrote:
> Seems like every video of someone working on an engine has them using RTV gasket maker with a paper gasket, yet buried in the manufactures literature it specifically says not to use it to hold a paper gasket in place.
> I’ll admit I’ve done it and haven’t had any problems.
> What says the group, what do you use on gaskets?
> Bob Nogueira
>
> PS: and yes I’m aware of the “ globs” problem of fouling the oil pump screen. I use a thin coat placed closer to the outside edge.
>
>
>

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From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2020 06:48:06 -0500

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I'm a big fan of Hylomar for that application.

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 23:07 Robert Nogueirao <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Seems like every video of someone working on an engine has them using RTV
> gasket maker with a paper gasket, yet buried in the manufactures literatu=
re
> it specifically says not to use it to hold a paper gasket in place.
> I=E2=80=99ll admit I=E2=80=99ve done it and haven=E2=80=99t had any probl=
ems.
> PS: and yes I=E2=80=99m aware of the =E2=80=9C globs=E2=80=9D problem of =
fouling the oil pump
> screen. I use a thin coat placed closer to the outside edge.
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m a big fan of Hylomar for that application.</div><=
br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun,=
 Dec 20, 2020, 23:07 Robert Nogueirao &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
om">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">Seems like every video of someone working on an engine has them using RTV=
 gasket maker with a paper gasket, yet buried in the manufactures literatur=
e it specifically says not to use it to hold a paper gasket in place.=C2=A0=
 <br>
I=E2=80=99ll admit I=E2=80=99ve done it and haven=E2=80=99t had any problem=
s. <br>
What says the group, what do you use on gaskets?<br>
Bob Nogueira<br>
<br>
PS: and yes I=E2=80=99m aware of the =E2=80=9C globs=E2=80=9D problem of fo=
uling the oil pump screen. I use a thin coat placed closer to the outside e=
dge.<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer">[email-masked]</a><br>
errer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
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</blockquote></div>

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From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2020 12:33:35 +0000 (UTC)

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 Not all RTV sealants are created equal.=C2=A0 Some will tolerate engine oi=
l and others, not so sure.=C2=A0 Check the manufacturer's data sheet (which=
 are typically only available online).=C2=A0 I have not found one that is t=
olerant of gasoline.=C2=A0 If the sealant is not tolerant it will swell up =
and flow globules as you mention.=C2=A0 Frankly, I'm only comfortable using=
 RTV on coolant applications but I have used it to stick my new Silicone va=
lve cover gasket to my valve cover.=C2=A0 I prefer Hylomar for paper gasket=
s.=C2=A0 Perhaps those You-Tubers are getting compensation for product plac=
ement.=C2=A0 (Jus' sayin')

One recommendation I heard is to apply the RTV sparingly but equally, assem=
ble the parts and tighten the fasteners finger-tight.=C2=A0 Wait about half=
 an hour and THEN torque down the fasteners.=C2=A0 This will allow the RTV =
to take a set and not ooze out into the space where it should not go.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Nogueirao <[email-masked]>
To: Shop Talk <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sun, Dec 20, 2020 10:05 pm
Subject: [Shop-talk] Using RTV gasket maker

Seems like every video of someone working on an engine has them using RTV g=
asket maker with a paper gasket, yet buried in the manufactures literature =
it specifically says not to use it to hold a paper gasket in place.=C2=A0=
=20
I=E2=80=99ll admit I=E2=80=99ve done it and haven=E2=80=99t had any problem=
s.=20
What says the group, what do you use on gaskets?
Bob Nogueira

dge.

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive

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<div style=3D"color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"3">Not all RTV sealants are created equal.&nbsp; Some w=
ill tolerate engine oil and others, not so sure.&nbsp; Check the manufactur=
er's data sheet (which are typically only available online).&nbsp; I have n=
ot found one that is tolerant of gasoline.&nbsp; If the sealant is not tole=
rant it will swell up and flow globules as you mention.&nbsp; Frankly, I'm =
only comfortable using RTV on coolant applications but I have used it to st=
ick my new Silicone valve cover gasket to my valve cover.&nbsp; I prefer Hy=
lomar for paper gaskets.&nbsp; Perhaps those You-Tubers are getting compens=
ation for product placement.&nbsp; (Jus' sayin')<br>
</font></div>

<div><br>
</div>

<div><font size=3D"3">One recommendation I heard is to apply the RTV sparin=
gly but equally, assemble the parts and tighten the fasteners finger-tight.=
&nbsp; Wait about half an hour and THEN torque down the fasteners.&nbsp; Th=
is will allow the RTV to take a set and not ooze out into the space where i=
t should not go.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"clear:both"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br>
<br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Robert Nogueirao &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: Shop Talk &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Sun, Dec 20, 2020 10:05 pm<br>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Using RTV gasket maker<br>
<br>

<div dir=3D"ltr">Seems like every video of someone working on an engine has=
 them using RTV gasket maker with a paper gasket, yet buried in the manufac=
tures literature it specifically says not to use it to hold a paper gasket =
in place.&nbsp; <br>
</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">I=E2=80=99ll admit I=E2=80=99ve done it and haven=E2=80=99=
t had any problems. <br>
</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">What says the group, what do you use on gaskets?<br>
</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">Bob Nogueira<br>
</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">PS: and yes I=E2=80=99m aware of the =E2=80=9C globs=E2=80=
=9D problem of fouling the oil pump screen. I use a thin coat placed closer=
 to the outside edge.<br>
</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">_______________________________________________<br>
</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>

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lto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
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From: John Innis <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2020 08:17:22 -0600

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I have a very specific procedure for paper gaskets that I was taught by my
father (a mechanic and shop teacher).  It has always worked well for me.
First, Clean the sealing surfaces and make sure they are smooth.  If you
use a wire brush on aluminum surfaces you are likely going to get some
scratches, clean it up with some 1500 grit sandpaper.  Next, I liberally
coat the gasket in oil.  The theory here is that the gasket is absorbent.
If you saturate it to start with it will not want to absorb any additional
oil or water from the thing you are trying to seal.  Next, it gets a thin
(and I do mean THIN) coating of RTV.  NOTE do not use HYLOMAR for this
application, you want an RTV that will set.  Wait a couple minutes for the
RTV to start to set then assemble and torque to sepc.  NOTE that in my
experience 90% of gasket failure is tied to improper torque values or
pattern.  Finally, WAIT.  Do not put the part into service until the RTV is
fully cured.  This step, above all else will prevent any excess RTV form
clogging up anything.  I have used this technique for more than 30 years
and never had a gasket leak.  YMMV.

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 10:07 PM Robert Nogueirao <[email-masked]> wrote=

re
ems.
fouling the oil pump
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D Never offend people with style when you   =3D
=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I have a very specific procedure for paper gaskets that I =
was taught by my father (a mechanic and shop teacher).=C2=A0 It has always =
worked well for me.=C2=A0 First, Clean the sealing surfaces and make sure t=
hey are smooth.=C2=A0 If you use a wire brush on aluminum surfaces you are =
likely going to get some scratches, clean it up with some 1500 grit sandpap=
er.=C2=A0 Next, I liberally coat the gasket in oil.=C2=A0 The theory here i=
s that the gasket is absorbent.=C2=A0 If you saturate it to start with it w=
ill not want to absorb any additional oil or water from the thing you are t=
rying to seal.=C2=A0 Next, it gets a thin (and I do mean THIN) coating of R=
TV.=C2=A0 NOTE do not use HYLOMAR for this application, you want an RTV tha=
t will set.=C2=A0 Wait a couple minutes for the RTV to start to set then as=
semble and torque to sepc.=C2=A0 NOTE that in my experience 90% of gasket f=
ailure is tied to improper torque values or pattern.=C2=A0 Finally, WAIT.=
=C2=A0 Do not put the part into service until the RTV is fully cured.=C2=A0=
 This step, above all else will prevent any excess RTV form clogging up any=
thing.=C2=A0 I have used this technique for more than 30 years and never ha=
d a gasket leak.=C2=A0 YMMV.<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 10:07 PM Robert Nog=
ueirao &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Seems like=
 every video of someone working on an engine has them using RTV gasket make=
r with a paper gasket, yet buried in the manufactures literature it specifi=
cally says not to use it to hold a paper gasket in place.=C2=A0 <br>
I=E2=80=99ll admit I=E2=80=99ve done it and haven=E2=80=99t had any problem=
s. <br>
What says the group, what do you use on gaskets?<br>
Bob Nogueira<br>
<br>
PS: and yes I=E2=80=99m aware of the =E2=80=9C globs=E2=80=9D problem of fo=
uling the oil pump screen. I use a thin coat placed closer to the outside e=
dge.<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
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</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g=
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