Subject: [Shop-talk] Two SSRs from one PID controller

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2020 18:09:24 -0500

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I want to operate two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for a 110V
circuit, the other for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I would
just wire them in parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking around the
interwebs suggests otherwise. So I sketched up this drawing for two SSRs
in series with a PID. Does this look correct for this situation? Any
suggestions appreciated!

(I'm a chemist, so I understand electron flow and related, but I trust
this little Shop Talk community more than I trust my electrical
intuition!)
Thanks!!!
 Lee
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<div class=3D"pre" style=3D"margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family: monospace">=
I want to operate two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for a 110V cir=
cuit, the other for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I would just wir=
e them in parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking around the interwebs s=
uggests otherwise. So I sketched up this drawing for two SSRs in series wit=
h a PID. Does this look correct for this situation? Any suggestions appreci=
ated!<br /> <br /> (I'm a chemist, so I understand electron flow and relate=
d, but I trust this little Shop Talk community more than I trust my electri=
cal intuition!)<br /> Thanks!!!<br /> &nbsp;Lee</div>
<div class=3D"pre" style=3D"margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family: monospace">=
<img src=3D"cid:[email-masked]" /></div>
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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From: John Innis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2020 18:16:48 -0500

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We need a little more info.  What is your PID output rated at (volts,
amps).  What are your SSR input requirements (volts amps).  Are you doing
true proportional or a bang/bang approximation?

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:10 PM <[email-masked]> wrote:

> circuit, the other for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I would just
> wire them in parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking around the
> interwebs suggests otherwise. So I sketched up this drawing for two SSRs in
> series with a PID. Does this look correct for this situation? Any
> suggestions appreciated!
>
> this little Shop Talk community more than I trust my electrical intuition!)
> Thanks!!!
>  Lee
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
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<div dir=3D"ltr">We need a little more info.=C2=A0 What is your PID output =
rated at (volts, amps).=C2=A0 What are your SSR input requirements (volts a=
mps).=C2=A0 Are you doing true proportional or a bang/bang approximation?<b=
r></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr=
">On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:10 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,Geneva=
,sans-serif">
<div style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:monospace">I want to opera=
te two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for a 110V circuit, the other=
 for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I would just wire them in paral=
lel from the PID, but a bit of poking around the interwebs suggests otherwi=
se. So I sketched up this drawing for two SSRs in series with a PID. Does t=
his look correct for this situation? Any suggestions appreciated!<br> <br> =
(I&#39;m a chemist, so I understand electron flow and related, but I trust =
this little Shop Talk community more than I trust my electrical intuition!)=
<br> Thanks!!!<br> =C2=A0Lee</div>
<div style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:monospace"><img src=3D"cid=
:174e67263deed5e69c41"></div>
</div>
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[email-masked]

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From: Donald H Locker <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2020 19:29:46 -0400

More than likely, you should connect the PID controller's outputs to the
SSRs in parallel - each SSR '+' terminal connected to the controller's
'+' output and each SSR '-' terminal connected to the controller's '-'
terminal.

SSRs typically have LED input stages and the likelihood of both SSRs
requiring the same current at half the voltage that the PID controller
can provide is slim. More likely, both SSRs require some minimum
voltage; the PID controller should be able to provide that voltage while
still providing the current to both SSRs.

If you can tell us the PID controller's and the SSRs manufacturer/model
info, we can probably help more.

Donald.
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On 2020-10-01 7:09 p.m., [email-masked] wrote:
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
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From: "John T. Blair" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2020 23:26:00 -0400

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At 07:09 PM 10/1/2020, [email-masked] wrote:

 >I want to operate two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for a 
110V circuit,
 >the other for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I would just 
wire them in
 >parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking around the interwebs suggests
 >otherwise. So I sketched up this drawing for two SSRs in series 
with a PID. Does
 >this look correct for this situation? Any suggestions appreciated!

Lee,

I don't know where you got the idea that putting them in parallel 
would not work.
Nor do I know if a PID is really the correct tool to use here.

You don't really say what or why you are trying to control.

In series, both solid state relays would have to close at the same 
time to cause and both load would be energized.  Not know what your 
are trying to do, I'd
think you'd want to be able to turn either one or off regardless of 
the state of the
other relay, which would require a seperate output line for each ssr.

You might be better off using one of the micro controllers like a 
Raspberry pi controller,  Arduino, or the BASIC stamp.

John

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  [email-masked]
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
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<html>
<body>
<font size=3>At 07:09 PM 10/1/2020, [email-masked] wrote:<br><br>
&gt;I want to operate two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for a
110V circuit,<br>
&gt;the other for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I would just
wire them in <br>
&gt;parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking around the interwebs
suggests <br>
&gt;otherwise. So I sketched up this drawing for two SSRs in series with
a PID. Does <br>
&gt;this look correct for this situation? Any suggestions
appreciated!<br><br>
Lee,<br><br>
I don't know where you got the idea that putting them in parallel would
not work.<br>
Nor do I know if a PID is really the correct tool to use here.<br><br>
You don't really say what or why you are trying to control.<br><br>
In series, both solid state relays would have to close at the same time
to cause and both load would be energized.&nbsp; Not know what your are
trying to do, I'd <br>
think you'd want to be able to turn either one or off regardless of the
state of the<br>
other relay, which would require a seperate output line for each
ssr.<br><br>
You might be better off using one of the micro controllers like a
Raspberry pi controller,&nbsp; Arduino, or the BASIC stamp.<br><br>
John<br><br>
</font><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
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<br>
<div>John T. Blair&nbsp; WA4OHZ&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email:&nbsp;
[email-masked]</div>
<div>Va. Beach,
Va&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Phone:&nbsp; (757) 495-8229</div>
<br>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 48
TR1800&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 48 #4 Midget&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 65 Morgan 4/4
Series V (B1106)</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
77 Spitfire&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 71 Saab Sonett III</div>
<div>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
65 Rambler Classic</div>
<br>
<div>Morgan:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
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</div>
<br>
<div>If you can read
this&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- Thank a teacher!</div>
<div>If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!</div>
<br>
<div> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; e pluribus Unum, &quot;from many,
one.&quot;</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In God We Trust</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Liberty - the&nbsp; power&nbsp; of&nbsp;
choosing,&nbsp; thinking,&nbsp; and&nbsp; acting&nbsp; for&nbsp; </div>
<div>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
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[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2020 23:11:53 -0500

Ok sorry, yes, I should have included the power details:

  - The PID (Inkbird ITC-106VH) provides 12 VDC, up to 30mA to the SSR.
  - The SSRs (Inkbird SSR-40 DA) activate at 3 VDC (specs are 3-32 VDC)

Lee

On 2020-10-01 18:16, John Innis wrote:
> amps).  What are your SSR input requirements (volts amps).  Are you
> doing true proportional or a bang/bang approximation?
> 
>> 110V circuit, the other for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I
>> would just wire them in parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking
>> around the interwebs suggests otherwise. So I sketched up this
>> drawing for two SSRs in series with a PID. Does this look correct
>> for this situation? Any suggestions appreciated!
>> 
>> (I'm a chemist, so I understand electron flow and related, but I
>> trust this little Shop Talk community more than I trust my
>> electrical intuition!)
>> Thanks!!!
>> Lee

[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] f+rpl9Kux0blk813TkBVRLcrEOwTl9S7K2KPnqfcrIMygRSfhXpW2v2hHsunhrZVtl9FsjsLlBu4kQ==
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2020 08:22:20 +0100

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Is there an option to use the pid  to switch one SSR (say the 110v one) and=
 then switch the 220v from the 110v output with a conventional relay (or st=
ep back down to 20v and use the SSR)=2E

On 2 October 2020 05:11:53 BST, lee@automate-it=2Ecom wrote:
>  - The PID (Inkbird ITC-106VH) provides 12 VDC, up to 30mA to the SSR=2E
>> We need a little more info=2E  What is your PID output rated at (volts,
>> amps)=2E  What are your SSR input requirements (volts amps)=2E  Are you
>>=20
>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:10 PM <lee@automate-it=2Ecom> wrote:
>>=20
>>> 110V circuit, the other for 220V) from a single PID=2E I had thought I
>>> around the interwebs suggests otherwise=2E So I sketched up this
>>> drawing for two SSRs in series with a PID=2E Does this look correct
>>>=20
>Shop-talk@autox=2Eteam=2Enet
>Donate: http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/donate=2Ehtml
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<html><head></head><body>Is there an option to use the pid  to switch one S=
SR (say the 110v one) and then switch the 220v from the 110v output with a =
conventional relay (or step back down to 20v and use the SSR)=2E<br><br><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote">On 2 October 2020 05:11:53 BST, lee@automate-it=2Ec=
om wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0=
=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class=3D"k9mail">Ok sorry, yes, I should have included the power deta=
ils:<br><br>  - The PID (Inkbird ITC-106VH) provides 12 VDC, up to 30mA to =
the SSR=2E<br>  - The SSRs (Inkbird SSR-40 DA) activate at 3 VDC (specs are=
 3-32 VDC)<br><br>Lee<br><br><br>On 2020-10-01 18:16, John Innis wrote:<br>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; bor=
der-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;">We need a little more info=
=2E  What is your PID output rated at (volts,<br>amps)=2E  What are your SS=
R input requirements (volts amps)=2E  Are you<br>doing true proportional or=
 a bang/bang approximation?<br><br>On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:10 PM &lt;lee@a=
utomate-it=2Ecom&gt; wrote:<br><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-le=
ft: 1ex;">I want to operate two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for =
a<br>110V circuit, the other for 220V) from a single PID=2E I had thought I=
<br>would just wire them in parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking<br>a=
round the interwebs suggests otherwise=2E So I sketched up this<br>drawing =
for two SSRs in series with a PID=2E Does this look correct<br>for this sit=
uation? Any suggestions appreciated!<br><br>(I'm a chemist, so I understand=
 electron flow and related, but I<br>trust this little Shop Talk community =
more than I trust my<br>electrical intuition!)<br>Thanks!!!<br>Lee<br></blo=
ckquote></blockquote><hr>Shop-talk@autox=2Eteam=2Enet<br>Donate: <a href=3D=
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<br></pre></blockquote></div><br>-- <br>Sent from my Android device with K-=
9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E</body></html>
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[email-masked]

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From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2020 05:43:56 -0400

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You can drive one off of the regular output, and another relay off of the
Alarm output.  The alarm wouldn't be fancy controlled, but it's not clear
what the application is.

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 7:10 PM <[email-masked]> wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">You can drive one off of the regular output, and another r=
elay off of the Alarm output.=C2=A0 The alarm wouldn&#39;t be fancy control=
led, but it&#39;s not clear what the application is.</div><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at =
7:10 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div =
style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif">
<div style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:monospace">I want to opera=
te two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for a 110V circuit, the other=
 for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I would just wire them in paral=
lel from the PID, but a bit of poking around the interwebs suggests otherwi=
se. So I sketched up this drawing for two SSRs in series with a PID. Does t=
his look correct for this situation? Any suggestions appreciated!<br> <br> =
(I&#39;m a chemist, so I understand electron flow and related, but I trust =
this little Shop Talk community more than I trust my electrical intuition!)=
<br> Thanks!!!<br> =C2=A0Lee</div>
<div style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:monospace"><img src=3D"cid=
:174e8ae6e32ed5e69c41"></div>
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