Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Solar battery maintainer

From: Steven Trovato via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 20:00:10 -0400

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Battery tender is one of the well known name brands in battery 
maintainers.  They make a solar version.  I have no personal 
experience with it, but they have a good reputation.
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004Q820TQ>https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004Q820TQ

-Steve T.

At 09:57 PM 4/4/2020, Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk wrote:
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64I've have an Isetta which is kept 
>in its own small garage separate from my shop. There is no power to 
>the small garage but I need to come up with a way to keep the 
>battery of the Isetta charged.
>  Any recommendations on a solar car battery maintainer

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Battery tender is one of the well known name brands in battery
maintainers.&nbsp; They make a solar version.&nbsp; I have no personal
experience with it, but they have a good reputation.&nbsp; <br>
<a href=3D"https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004Q820TQ">
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004Q820TQ</a> <br><br>
-Steve T.<br><br>
At 09:57 PM 4/4/2020, Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">Content-Transfer-Encoding:
base64I=92ve have an Isetta which is kept in its own small garage separate
from my shop. There is no power to the small garage but I need to come up
with a way to keep the battery of the Isetta charged.<br>
&nbsp;Any recommendations on a solar car battery
maintainer</blockquote><div id=3D"DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br=
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From: Jimmie Mayfield via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 10:34:04 -0400

The recent discussion about solar-powered float chargers has reminded me 
of an issue that I've yet to understand or resolve...

I have a Battery Minder 12248 (12V 2/4/8A) charger/de-sulfator with 
temperature compensation sensor.  While I've never been able to 
appreciably restore a dead UPS battery using the de-sulfation mode, it 
seems to work fine as a slow charger.  It has several modes -- gel-cell, 
AGM or flooded -- which, near as I can tell, adjusts the threshold 
voltage at which the charger switches from bulk-charge mode to 
float-charge/de-sulfation mode.

Every 12V battery that I've ever connected to the charger, even the old 
AGM batteries taken out of my UPS units, eventually reached the 
threshold voltage and switched over to float mode (usually within 30-45 
minutes for a nearly-fully-charged battery).  Except one.

About 2 years ago I installed an Interstate battery from Costco (size 
27F, 890CA, 710CCA) in my truck.  It's a flooded battery and if I 
understand Interstate's spec correctly, its capacity works out to around 
100Ah.  The battery has a resting voltage of 12.6V so it doesn't appear 
to have any shorted cells and has no trouble starting my truck.  So it 
seems to be a normally healthy battery, right?

Thing is...I've never seen my charger go into float mode when connected 
to this battery even when it was nearly new.  With the recent pandemic 
stay-at-home orders, yesterday I decided to connect my truck to the 
charger to stave off parasitic drain (measured to be 20-30mA) that may 
have accumulated over the past week of inactivity.  I'm currently at 16 
hours (@4A) and it still seems to be in bulk-charging mode.  I have 
difficulty believing that the battery needed 50+ Ah.

So what's going on here?  This is the only battery that I've come across 
that behaves like this.

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From: Bob Spidell via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 07:49:53 -0700

FWIW, I put two Interstate batteries in my '08 Mustang--almost daily 
driven over 70 miles on the freeway--and they both failed at 2 years (no 
warning, just wouldn't start my car at work).  Interstate used to be a 
'go to' brand, but I believe they're now made in Mexico like most 
'American' brands.  An experienced starter/generator rebuilder told me 
Mexican-made batteries are crap (and he's Hispanic).  Deka is now my go 
to brand; they're made in Pennsylvania, and competitively priced.

My guess is your Interstate is getting ready to fail.

Bob

On 4/7/2020 7:34 AM, Jimmie Mayfield via Shop-talk wrote:
> The recent discussion about solar-powered float chargers has reminded 
> me of an issue that I've yet to understand or resolve...
>
> seems to work fine as a slow charger.  It has several modes -- 
> gel-cell, AGM or flooded -- which, near as I can tell, adjusts the 
> threshold voltage at which the charger switches from bulk-charge mode 
> to float-charge/de-sulfation mode.
>
> Every 12V battery that I've ever connected to the charger, even the 
> old AGM batteries taken out of my UPS units, eventually reached the 
> threshold voltage and switched over to float mode (usually within 
> 30-45 minutes for a nearly-fully-charged battery).  Except one.
>
> understand Interstate's spec correctly, its capacity works out to 
> around 100Ah.  The battery has a resting voltage of 12.6V so it 
> doesn't appear to have any shorted cells and has no trouble starting 
> my truck.  So it seems to be a normally healthy battery, right?
>
> Thing is...I've never seen my charger go into float mode when 
> connected to this battery even when it was nearly new.  With the 
> recent pandemic stay-at-home orders, yesterday I decided to connect my 
> truck to the charger to stave off parasitic drain (measured to be 
> 20-30mA) that may have accumulated over the past week of inactivity.  
> I'm currently at 16 hours (@4A) and it still seems to be in 
> bulk-charging mode.  I have difficulty believing that the battery 
> needed 50+ Ah.
>
> So what's going on here?  This is the only battery that I've come 
> across that behaves like this.
>
>
>
>

[email-masked]

---

From: Pat Horne via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 10:23:22 -0500

Sounds like a question for interstate. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity

> On Apr 7, 2020, at 9:34 AM, Jimmie Mayfield via Shop-talk <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 

The recent discussion about solar-powered float chargers has reminded me of an issue that I've yet to understand or resolve...

I have a Battery Minder 12248 (12V 2/4/8A) charger/de-sulfator with temperature compensation sensor.  While I've never been able to appreciably restore a dead UPS battery using the de-sulfation mode, it seems to work fine as a slow charger.  It has several modes -- gel-cell, AGM or flooded -- which, near as I can tell, adjusts the threshold voltage at which the charger switches from bulk-charge mode to float-charge/de-sulfation mode.

Every 12V battery that I've ever connected to the charger, even the old AGM batteries taken out of my UPS units, eventually reached the threshold voltage and switched over to float mode (usually within 30-45 minutes for a nearly-fully-charged battery).  Except one.

About 2 years ago I installed an Interstate battery from Costco (size 27F, 890CA, 710CCA) in my truck.  It's a flooded battery and if I understand Interstate's spec correctly, its capacity works out to around 100Ah.  The battery has a resting voltage of 12.6V so it doesn't appear to have any shorted cells and has no trouble starting my truck.  So it seems to be a normally healthy battery, right?

Thing is...I've never seen my charger go into float mode when connected to this battery even when it was nearly new.  With the recent pandemic stay-at-home orders, yesterday I decided to connect my truck to the charger to stave off parasitic drain (measured to be 20-30mA) that may have accumulated over the past week of inactivity.  I'm currently at 16 hours (@4A) and it still seems to be in bulk-charging mode.  I have difficulty believing that the battery needed 50+ Ah.

So what's going on here?  This is the only battery that I've come across that behaves like this.

[email-masked]

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---

From: Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 11:50:47 -0400

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--0000000000008fad6405a2b559dd

Sounds like it may have partial bridging of the plates, causing a drain
internally.  In the olden days, there were simple ways to check...I don't
know what you do now - take it to the FLAPS and let them put it on
the machine?

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 10:34 AM Jimmie Mayfield via Shop-talk <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Sounds like it may have partial bridging of the plates, ca=
using a drain internally.=C2=A0 In the olden days, there were simple ways t=
o check...I don&#39;t know what you do now - take it to the FLAPS and let t=
hem=C2=A0put it on the=C2=A0machine?<div><br></div><div>Jeff Scarbrough</di=
v><div>Corrosion Acres, Ga.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 10:34 AM Jimmie May=
field via Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">shop-ta=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">The recent discussion about solar-powered float chargers h=
as reminded me <br>
of an issue that I&#39;ve yet to understand or resolve...<br>
<br>
I have a Battery Minder 12248 (12V 2/4/8A) charger/de-sulfator with <br>
temperature compensation sensor.=C2=A0 While I&#39;ve never been able to <b=
r>
appreciably restore a dead UPS battery using the de-sulfation mode, it <br>
seems to work fine as a slow charger.=C2=A0 It has several modes -- gel-cel=
l, <br>
AGM or flooded -- which, near as I can tell, adjusts the threshold <br>
voltage at which the charger switches from bulk-charge mode to <br>
float-charge/de-sulfation mode.<br>
<br>
Every 12V battery that I&#39;ve ever connected to the charger, even the old=
 <br>
AGM batteries taken out of my UPS units, eventually reached the <br>
threshold voltage and switched over to float mode (usually within 30-45 <br=
minutes for a nearly-fully-charged battery).=C2=A0 Except one.<br>
<br>
About 2 years ago I installed an Interstate battery from Costco (size <br>
27F, 890CA, 710CCA) in my truck.=C2=A0 It&#39;s a flooded battery and if I =
<br>
understand Interstate&#39;s spec correctly, its capacity works out to aroun=
d <br>
100Ah.=C2=A0 The battery has a resting voltage of 12.6V so it doesn&#39;t a=
ppear <br>
to have any shorted cells and has no trouble starting my truck.=C2=A0 So it=
 <br>
seems to be a normally healthy battery, right?<br>
<br>
Thing is...I&#39;ve never seen my charger go into float mode when connected=
 <br>
to this battery even when it was nearly new.=C2=A0 With the recent pandemic=
 <br>
stay-at-home orders, yesterday I decided to connect my truck to the <br>
charger to stave off parasitic drain (measured to be 20-30mA) that may <br>
have accumulated over the past week of inactivity.=C2=A0 I&#39;m currently =
at 16 <br>
hours (@4A) and it still seems to be in bulk-charging mode.=C2=A0 I have <b=
r>
difficulty believing that the battery needed 50+ Ah.<br>
<br>
So what&#39;s going on here?=C2=A0 This is the only battery that I&#39;ve c=
ome across <br>
that behaves like this.<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: DAVID MASSEY via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 12:32:12 +0000 (UTC)

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 The way these multi-phase chargers work is they charge at constant-current=
 (Bulk Mode) until a voltage threshold (~14.25V) is reached at which point =
it switches to constant voltage (Absorption Mode) until the current drops b=
elow a threshold where it switches to Float Mode.=C2=A0 The data sheet does=
n't talk much about this (or at all) but it is possible that this charger i=
s calibrated for a 40 A-H battery more typical of what is found in private =
vehicles.=C2=A0 It is possible that the absorption current on a much larger=
 battery (100 A-H) never gets below this threshold so the charger never swi=
tches to Float.=C2=A0=20

But this is just speculation.
OTOH, I had a 5-year old Optima in my TR6 that displayed the same symptom.=
=C2=A0 But on my car I can connect the charger in such a manner that I can =
monitor the charge current on the in-dash ammeter which never dropped below=
 a few amps.=C2=A0 In fact I first noticed the problem while driving as the=
 ammeter was centered indicating zero amps early in the drive but when appr=
oaching the house the current was definitely in showing a few amps of charg=
e which is not at all typical.=C2=A0=20

I took it to the shop specializing in batteries and they rolled out their t=
ester and pronounced it "good."=C2=A0 In my estimation, their test is not c=
omprehensive and only checked for open and/or shorted cells and for current=
 capacity.=C2=A0 They were more than happy to take my money when I insisted=
 that the battery was not going to last and I was happy with replacing the =
battery since it was at least five years old and had been abused (completel=
y discharged at least once).

So, I guess the short answer is what is the current into the battery when t=
he charger hangs in the Absorption Mode?
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Jimmie Mayfield via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
To: shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tue, Apr 7, 2020 9:34 am
Subject: [Shop-talk] Float chargers

The recent discussion about solar-powered float chargers has reminded me=20
of an issue that I've yet to understand or resolve...

I have a Battery Minder 12248 (12V 2/4/8A) charger/de-sulfator with=20
temperature compensation sensor.=C2=A0 While I've never been able to=20
appreciably restore a dead UPS battery using the de-sulfation mode, it=20
seems to work fine as a slow charger.=C2=A0 It has several modes -- gel-cel=
l,=20
AGM or flooded -- which, near as I can tell, adjusts the threshold=20
voltage at which the charger switches from bulk-charge mode to=20
float-charge/de-sulfation mode.

Every 12V battery that I've ever connected to the charger, even the old=20
AGM batteries taken out of my UPS units, eventually reached the=20
threshold voltage and switched over to float mode (usually within 30-45=20
minutes for a nearly-fully-charged battery).=C2=A0 Except one.

About 2 years ago I installed an Interstate battery from Costco (size=20
27F, 890CA, 710CCA) in my truck.=C2=A0 It's a flooded battery and if I=20
understand Interstate's spec correctly, its capacity works out to around=20
100Ah.=C2=A0 The battery has a resting voltage of 12.6V so it doesn't appea=
r=20
to have any shorted cells and has no trouble starting my truck.=C2=A0 So it=
=20
seems to be a normally healthy battery, right?

Thing is...I've never seen my charger go into float mode when connected=20
to this battery even when it was nearly new.=C2=A0 With the recent pandemic=
=20
stay-at-home orders, yesterday I decided to connect my truck to the=20
charger to stave off parasitic drain (measured to be 20-30mA) that may=20
have accumulated over the past week of inactivity.=C2=A0 I'm currently at 1=
6=20
hours (@4A) and it still seems to be in bulk-charging mode.=C2=A0 I have=20
difficulty believing that the battery needed 50+ Ah.

So what's going on here?=C2=A0 This is the only battery that I've come acro=
ss=20
that behaves like this.

------=_Part_1982471_587268128.1586435532474
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div style=3D"color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"3">The way these multi-phase chargers work is they char=
ge at constant-current (Bulk Mode) until a voltage threshold (~14.25V) is r=
eached at which point it switches to constant voltage (Absorption Mode) unt=
il the current drops below a threshold where it switches to Float Mode.&nbs=
p; The data sheet doesn't talk much about this (or at all) but it is possib=
le that this charger is calibrated for a 40 A-H battery </font><font size=
=3D"3">more typical of what is found in private vehicles.&nbsp; It is possi=
ble that the absorption current on a much larger battery (100 A-H) never ge=
ts below this threshold so the charger never switches to Float.&nbsp; <br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">But this is just speculation.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">OTOH, I had a 5-year old Optima in my TR6 that displa=
yed the same symptom.&nbsp; But on my car I can connect the charger in such=
 a manner that I can monitor the charge current on the in-dash ammeter whic=
h never dropped below a few amps.&nbsp; In fact I first noticed the problem=
 while driving as the ammeter was centered indicating zero amps early in th=
e drive but when approaching the house the current was definitely in showin=
g a few amps of charge which is not at all typical.&nbsp; <br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">I took it to the shop specializing in batteries and t=
hey rolled out their tester and pronounced it "good."&nbsp; In my estimatio=
n, their test is not comprehensive and only checked for open and/or shorted=
 cells and for current capacity.&nbsp; They were more than happy to take my=
 money when I insisted that the battery was not going to last and I was hap=
py with replacing the battery since it was at least five years old and had =
been abused (completely discharged at least once).<br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">So, I guess the short answer is what is the current i=
nto the battery when the charger hangs in the Absorption Mode?<br>
</font></div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"clear:both"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br>
<br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Jimmie Mayfield via Shop-talk &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: shop-talk &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Tue, Apr 7, 2020 9:34 am<br>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Float chargers<br>
<br>

<div dir=3D"ltr">The recent discussion about solar-powered float chargers h=
as reminded me <br clear=3D"none">of an issue that I've yet to understand o=
r resolve...<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">I have a Battery Minder 1=
2248 (12V 2/4/8A) charger/de-sulfator with <br clear=3D"none">temperature c=
ompensation sensor.&nbsp; While I've never been able to <br clear=3D"none">=
appreciably restore a dead UPS battery using the de-sulfation mode, it <br =
clear=3D"none">seems to work fine as a slow charger.&nbsp; It has several m=
odes -- gel-cell, <br clear=3D"none">AGM or flooded -- which, near as I can=
 tell, adjusts the threshold <br clear=3D"none">voltage at which the charge=
r switches from bulk-charge mode to <br clear=3D"none">float-charge/de-sulf=
ation mode.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Every 12V battery that I'v=
e ever connected to the charger, even the old <br clear=3D"none">AGM batter=
ies taken out of my UPS units, eventually reached the <br clear=3D"none">th=
reshold voltage and switched over to float mode (usually within 30-45 <br c=
lear=3D"none">minutes for a nearly-fully-charged battery).&nbsp; Except one=
.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">About 2 years ago I installed an Int=
erstate battery from Costco (size <br clear=3D"none">27F, 890CA, 710CCA) in=
 my truck.&nbsp; It's a flooded battery and if I <br clear=3D"none">underst=
and Interstate's spec correctly, its capacity works out to around <br clear=
=3D"none">100Ah.&nbsp; The battery has a resting voltage of 12.6V so it doe=
sn't appear <br clear=3D"none">to have any shorted cells and has no trouble=
 starting my truck.&nbsp; So it <br clear=3D"none">seems to be a normally h=
ealthy battery, right?<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Thing is...I've=
 never seen my charger go into float mode when connected <br clear=3D"none"=
>to this battery even when it was nearly new.&nbsp; With the recent pandemi=
c <br clear=3D"none">stay-at-home orders, yesterday I decided to connect my=
 truck to the <br clear=3D"none">charger to stave off parasitic drain (meas=
ured to be 20-30mA) that may <br clear=3D"none">have accumulated over the p=
ast week of inactivity.&nbsp; I'm currently at 16 <br clear=3D"none">hours =
(@4A) and it still seems to be in bulk-charging mode.&nbsp; I have <br clea=
r=3D"none">difficulty believing that the battery needed 50+ Ah.<br clear=3D=
"none"><br clear=3D"none">So what's going on here?&nbsp; This is the only b=
attery that I've come across <br clear=3D"none">that behaves like this.
<div class=3D"yqt8910329057" id=3D"yqtfd39778"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">______________________________________________=
_<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

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[email-masked]

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