Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] OT flash drives

From: John Innis via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 07:34:00 -0500

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One thing that often works for us is to freeze the drive (if it has a cold
solder join this will often keep it working long enough to get the data
off.  If that doesn't work you can try baking it.  Less common, but
sometime the post coat the manufactures use one these is sensitive to
humidity.  Baking them in a 250 degree oven for a couple hours might dry it
out enough to work.

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 7:26 AM Tim . via Shop-talk <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> Sending this inquiry to you all since I know there are more than a few IT
> guys in this group.....
>
> I bought three 512GB flash drives for archiving here at work. One locked
> up in each of our offices and one for me to add to files as necessary as
> files are amended. They have approximately 450GB on them.
>
> One of the three failed as soon as I finished filling it. I bought a
> different brand and made a replacement copy for the safe in our Madison
> office. A second, the same brand as the first one that failed is locked up
> in our MKE office and will also be replaced now because the third one (the
> one that has amended archived files) is also failing. I am having a hard
> time retrieving the amended files before this drive takes a final crap on
> me. It took over 15 hours to pull one 87MB file from the dying drive. I
> can't even attempt to pull more than one file at a time. Not that this
> should matter, but the files are mixed word, pdf, saved outlook emails and
> miscellaneous audio or video files and possibly other items.
>
> What I am wondering/hoping is that someone might know of a solution to
> this nearly impossible retrieval process. Or am I just screwed here?
>
> Next year we will be storing everything in the cloud so I won't have to
> deal with this PITA process.
>
> Thanks
> tim
> _______________________________________________
>
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-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================

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<div dir=3D"ltr">One thing that often works for us is to freeze the drive (=
if it has a cold solder join this will often keep it working long enough to=
 get the data off.=C2=A0 If that doesn&#39;t work you can try baking it.=C2=
=A0 Less common, but sometime the post coat the manufactures use one these =
is sensitive to humidity.=C2=A0 Baking them in a 250 degree oven for a coup=
le hours might dry it out enough to work.<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 7:26 A=
M Tim . via Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">shop-=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)=
;padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
Sending this inquiry to you all since I know there are more than a few IT g=
uys in this group.....</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
I bought three 512GB flash drives for archiving here at work. One locked up=
 in each of our offices and one for me to add to files as necessary as file=
s are amended. They have approximately 450GB on them.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
One of the three failed as soon as I finished filling it. I bought a differ=
ent brand and made a replacement copy for the safe in our Madison office. A=
 second, the same brand as the first one that failed is locked up in our MK=
E office and will also be replaced
 now because the third one (the one that has amended archived files) is als=
o failing. I am having a hard time retrieving the amended files before this=
 drive takes a final crap on me. It took over 15 hours to pull one 87MB fil=
e from the dying drive. I can&#39;t
 even attempt to pull more than one file at a time. Not that this should ma=
tter, but the files are mixed word, pdf, saved outlook emails and miscellan=
eous audio or video files and possibly other items.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
What I am wondering/hoping is that someone might know of a solution to this=
 nearly impossible retrieval process. Or am I just screwed here?=C2=A0</div=
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
Next year we will be storing everything in the cloud so I won&#39;t have to=
 deal with this PITA process.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
Thanks</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
tim</div>
</div>

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alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g=
mail_signature">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>=3D Never offend people with =
style when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Bro=
wn=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</div>

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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From: old dirtbeard via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 06:30:10 -0700

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Hi Tim,

I think you got some good advice on what to try to retrieve the data, and
your last sentence is the solution:

              Next year we will be storing everything in the cloud so I
won't have to deal with this PITA process.

I would sign-up today for Google or O365 and move everything to One Drive
or Google Drive.

best,

doug

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 5:26 AM Tim . via Shop-talk <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Tim,<div><br></div><div>I think you got some good advic=
e on what to try to retrieve the data, and your last sentence is the soluti=
on:</div><div><div class=3D"gmail-gs" style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 2=
0px;width:1560px;font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;=
font-size:medium"><div class=3D"gmail-"><div id=3D"gmail-:9p" class=3D"gmai=
l-ii gmail-gt" style=3D"font-size:0.875rem;direction:ltr;margin:8px 0px 0px=
;padding:0px"><div id=3D"gmail-:9o" class=3D"gmail-a3s gmail-aXjCH gmail-ms=
g1597620844448574485" style=3D"overflow:hidden;font-variant-numeric:normal;=
font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:small;line-hei=
ght:1.5;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=
=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0=
)"><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Next year we will be storing everything in the clo=
ud so I won&#39;t have to deal with this PITA process.=C2=A0=C2=A0<br></div=
><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail-adL">I would sign-up toda=
y for Google or O365 and move everything to One Drive or Google Drive.</div=
><div class=3D"gmail-adL"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail-adL">best,</div><di=
v class=3D"gmail-adL"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail-adL">doug</div></div></=
div><div class=3D"gmail-hi" style=3D"border-bottom-left-radius:1px;border-b=
ottom-right-radius:1px;padding:0px;width:auto;background:rgb(242,242,242);m=
argin:0px"></div></div></div><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline">=
</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_=
attr">On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 5:26 AM Tim . via Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">

_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Scott Hall via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 13:40:13 -0500

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--00000000000014186d05a0acb199

I think I'm a late adopter and certainly not as sophisticated as I'd like,
but I bought and finally put drives in a QNAP 3-bay NAS (networked attached
storage). It's using RAID5 so it can tolerate one drive failure without
losing the data. I'm now looking for an online backup for that, my thought
being that even if the NAS dies I'll have it backed up as well.

The issue I'm having is that the NAS holds 8TB of files and cloud backup of
8TB is expensive. Or more expensive than I thought it would be, anyway.

For 512 GB, I'd think you could get a NAS with RAID6 (I think, Google it
and don't listen to me) that tolerates two drive failures and a cheap
online backup system. I'd sleep pretty well with that setup. And 512GB HDDs
are downright cheap any more.

The thing I bought says it'll auto-backup stuff from independent machines.
Or rather, I assume you install a utility on the individual computers and
schedule backups. Seems pretty nifty, even if I don't plan on using it.

Scott

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 7:26 AM Tim . via Shop-talk <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I think I&#39;m a late adopter and certainly not as sophis=
ticated as I&#39;d like, but I bought and finally put drives in a QNAP 3-ba=
y NAS (networked attached storage). It&#39;s using RAID5 so it can tolerate=
 one drive failure without losing the data. I&#39;m now looking for an onli=
ne backup for that, my thought being that even if the NAS dies I&#39;ll hav=
e it backed up as well.<div><br></div><div>The issue I&#39;m having is that=
 the NAS holds 8TB of files and cloud backup of 8TB is expensive. Or more e=
xpensive than I thought it would be, anyway.</div><div><br></div><div>For 5=
12 GB, I&#39;d think you could get a NAS with RAID6 (I think, Google it and=
 don&#39;t listen to me) that tolerates two drive failures and a cheap onli=
ne backup system. I&#39;d sleep pretty well with that setup. And 512GB HDDs=
 are downright cheap any more.</div><div><br></div><div>The thing I bought =
says it&#39;ll auto-backup stuff from independent machines. Or rather, I as=
sume you install a utility on the individual computers and schedule backups=
. Seems pretty nifty, even if I don&#39;t plan on using it.</div><div><br>S=
cott</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gm=
ail_attr">On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 7:26 AM Tim . via Shop-talk &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">

_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Doug Braun via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 14:57:32 -0400

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A USB portable hard drive (the real, spinning kind) should be much more
reliable than a run-of-the-mill USB flash drive, as long as you don't
handle it roughly.

Doug

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 8:26 AM Tim . via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">A USB portable hard drive (the real, spinning kind) shoul=
d be much more reliable than a run-of-the-mill USB flash drive, as long as =
you don&#39;t handle it roughly.<div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto">Doug</div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><=
div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 8:26 AM Tim . vi=
a Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">shop-talk@autox=
.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">

_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer">[email-masked]</a><br>
errer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" rel=3D"norefer=
rer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</=
a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Peter Murray via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 17:17:01 -0400

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--000000000000adf0d805a0c2fc9d

If you go with the freezer route, seal the drive in a ziploc bag (you may
need some RTV or other sealant to ensure the bag is sealed around the
cables, as you'll want to run the drive while its cold) so the drive
doesn't get condensate throughout when you pull it out of the freezer. Some
desiccant in the bag would be helpful (could be rice or silica gel).

It also could be further helpful to start with the bagged drive in a warm
oven (not over 125 F) to drive moisture out and into the desiccant,
followed by
a graduated transition to the freezer (or the refrigerator, if sufficient).
Don't just throw it directly from the oven into the freezer!

The cloud is handy, but don't forget to back it up. I use OneDrive (as part
of my Office 365 account), and use sync software on my NAS to sync
the OneDrive. The NAS then backs up to BackBlaze B2 buckets.

-Peter

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 9:31 AM old dirtbeard via Shop-talk <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">If you go with the freezer route, seal the drive in a zipl=
oc bag (you may need some RTV or other sealant to ensure the bag is sealed =
around the<div>cables, as you&#39;ll want to run the drive while its cold) =
so the drive doesn&#39;t get condensate throughout when you pull it out of =
the freezer. Some</div><div>desiccant=C2=A0in the bag would be helpful (cou=
ld be rice or silica gel).</div><div><br><div>It also could be further help=
ful to start with the bagged drive in a warm oven (not over 125 F) to drive=
 moisture out and into the desiccant, followed by=C2=A0</div><div>a graduat=
ed transition to the freezer (or the refrigerator, if sufficient). Don&#39;=
t just throw it directly from the oven into the freezer!</div><div><br></di=
v><div>The cloud is handy, but don&#39;t forget to back it up. I use OneDri=
ve (as part of my Office 365 account), and use sync software on my NAS to s=
ync</div><div>the OneDrive. The NAS then backs up to BackBlaze B2 buckets.<=
/div><div><br></div><div><div>-Peter</div></div></div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 12, 2020=
 at 9:31 AM old dirtbeard via Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi =
Tim,<div><br></div><div>I think you got some good advice on what to try to =
retrieve the data, and your last sentence is the solution:</div><div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 20px;width:1560px;font-family:Roboto,Rob=
otoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:medium"><div><div id=3D"gmail=
-m_8419009992166815097gmail-m_-6816539159168423989gmail-:9p" style=3D"font-=
size:0.875rem;direction:ltr;margin:8px 0px 0px;padding:0px"><div id=3D"gmai=
l-m_8419009992166815097gmail-m_-6816539159168423989gmail-:9o" style=3D"over=
flow:hidden;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font=
-stretch:normal;font-size:small;line-height:1.5;font-family:Arial,Helvetica=
,sans-serif"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Next year we will be storing everything in the cloud s=
o I won&#39;t have to deal with this PITA process.=C2=A0=C2=A0<br></div><di=
v style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rg=
b(0,0,0)"><br></div></div><div>I would sign-up today for Google or O365 and=
 move everything to One Drive or Google Drive.</div><div><br></div><div>bes=
t,</div><div><br></div><div>doug</div></div></div><div style=3D"border-bott=
om-left-radius:1px;border-bottom-right-radius:1px;padding:0px;width:auto;ba=
ckground:rgb(242,242,242);margin:0px"></div></div></div><br></div></div><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, M=
ar 12, 2020 at 5:26 AM Tim . via Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@=
autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">

alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://aut=
ox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Peter Murray via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 17:28:30 -0400

--===============6558158069643477045==

--000000000000bbfb8e05a0c3257b

Scott-

Look at Hybrid Backup Sync on your QNAP for automatic backup capability.
I'd look at a combination of local USB drive
as a backup destination, as well as BackBlaze B2 (also via HBS). They're
one of the least expensive cloud storage
providers out there, and they've been excellent for me thus far.

I have a QNAP TS-873 at home, and I really like it. It is an investment,
but it just works, and doesn't require constant
fiddling to keep it working, unlike my 1986 BMW R80RT.

-Peter

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:41 PM Scott Hall via Shop-talk <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> The issue I'm having is that the NAS holds 8TB of files and cloud backup
> of 8TB is expensive. Or more expensive than I thought it would be, anyway.
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Scott-<div><br></div><div>Look at Hybrid Backup Sync on yo=
ur QNAP for automatic backup capability. I&#39;d look at a combination=C2=
=A0of local USB drive<div>as a backup destination, as well as BackBlaze B2 =
(also via HBS). They&#39;re one of the least expensive cloud storage</div><=
div>providers out there, and they&#39;ve been excellent for me thus far.=C2=
=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I have a QNAP TS-873 at home, and I really lik=
e it. It is an investment, but it just works, and doesn&#39;t require const=
ant</div><div>fiddling to keep it working, unlike my 1986 BMW R80RT.</div><=
div><br></div><div>-Peter</div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><=
div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:41 PM Scott =
Hall via Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
 rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I think I&#39;m a late=
 adopter and certainly not as sophisticated as I&#39;d like, but I bought a=
nd finally put drives in a QNAP 3-bay NAS (networked attached storage). It&=
#39;s using RAID5 so it can tolerate one drive failure without losing the d=
ata. I&#39;m now looking for an online backup for that, my thought being th=
at even if the NAS dies I&#39;ll have it backed up as well.<div><br></div><=
div>The issue I&#39;m having is that the NAS holds 8TB of files and cloud b=
ackup of 8TB is expensive. Or more expensive than I thought it would be, an=
yway.</div><div><br></div><div>For 512 GB, I&#39;d think you could get a NA=
S with RAID6 (I think, Google it and don&#39;t listen to me) that tolerates=
 two drive failures and a cheap online backup system. I&#39;d sleep pretty =
well with that setup. And 512GB HDDs are downright cheap any more.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>The thing I bought says it&#39;ll auto-backup stuff from i=
ndependent machines. Or rather, I assume you install a utility on the indiv=
idual computers and schedule backups. Seems pretty nifty, even if I don&#39=
;t plan on using it.</div><div><br>Scott</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 7:26 =
AM Tim . via Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targ=
et=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">

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[email-masked]

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From: "Tim . via Shop-talk" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 15:21:41 +0000

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Thanks for the replies all.

A few of my own:

freeze the drive=97probably try this.

baking it=97it=92s coated in rubber so probably not a good idea.

One Drive or Google Drive=97We will be in totally in the cloud once our new=
 case management system is done being built.

Flash drives or spinning hard drives=97as the title of the post says: =93Fl=
ash drives=94

A USB portable hard drive should be much more reliable=97this is what I wan=
ted to do/use but management told me to get flash drives.

John Innis=97great reply thanks. I=92ll pass this one to the idiots=85er=85=
I mean management.

Al Fuller=97I=92ll pass your info along if I am not able to access this dri=
ve after freezing it.

Thanks again.
tim

________________________________
From: Shop-talk <[email-masked]> on behalf of Tim . via S=
hop-talk <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 7:26 AM
To: Shop Talk <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Shop-talk] OT flash drives

uys in this group.....

I bought three 512GB flash drives for archiving here at work. One locked up=
 in each of our offices and one for me to add to files as necessary as file=
s are amended. They have approximately 450GB on them.

One of the three failed as soon as I finished filling it. I bought a differ=
ent brand and made a replacement copy for the safe in our Madison office. A=
 second, the same brand as the first one that failed is locked up in our MK=
E office and will also be replaced now because the third one (the one that =
has amended archived files) is also failing. I am having a hard time retrie=
ving the amended files before this drive takes a final crap on me. It took =
over 15 hours to pull one 87MB file from the dying drive. I can't even atte=
mpt to pull more than one file at a time. Not that this should matter, but =
the files are mixed word, pdf, saved outlook emails and miscellaneous audio=
 or video files and possibly other items.

What I am wondering/hoping is that someone might know of a solution to this=
 nearly impossible retrieval process. Or am I just screwed here?

Next year we will be storing everything in the cloud so I won't have to dea=
l with this PITA process.

Thanks
tim

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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Thanks for the replies all.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
A few of my own:&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span>freeze the drive=97probably try this.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span><br>
</span>
<div>baking it=97it=92s coated in rubber so probably not a good idea. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One Drive or Google Drive=97We will be in totally in the cloud once ou=
r new case management system is done being built.
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Flash drives or spinning hard drives=97as the title of the post says: =
=93Flash drives=94<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A USB portable hard drive should be much more reliable=97this is what =
I wanted to do/use but management told me to get flash drives.
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>John Innis=97great reply thanks. I=92ll pass this one to the idiots=85=
er=85I mean management.
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Al Fuller=97I=92ll pass your info along if I am not able to access thi=
s drive after freezing it.
<br>
</div>
<span></span><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Thanks&nbsp;again.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
tim</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Shop-talk &lt;shop-ta=
[email-masked]&gt; on behalf of Tim . via Shop-talk &lt;shop-tal=
[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 12, 2020 7:26 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Shop Talk &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Shop-talk] OT flash drives</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
Sending this inquiry to you all since I know there are more than a few IT g=
uys in this group.....</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
I bought three 512GB flash drives for archiving here at work. One locked up=
 in each of our offices and one for me to add to files as necessary as file=
s are amended. They have approximately 450GB on them.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
One of the three failed as soon as I finished filling it. I bought a differ=
ent brand and made a replacement copy for the safe in our Madison office. A=
 second, the same brand as the first one that failed is locked up in our MK=
E office and will also be replaced
 now because the third one (the one that has amended archived files) is als=
o failing. I am having a hard time retrieving the amended files before this=
 drive takes a final crap on me. It took over 15 hours to pull one 87MB fil=
e from the dying drive. I can't
 even attempt to pull more than one file at a time. Not that this should ma=
tter, but the files are mixed word, pdf, saved outlook emails and miscellan=
eous audio or video files and possibly other items.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
What I am wondering/hoping is that someone might know of a solution to this=
 nearly impossible retrieval process. Or am I just screwed here?&nbsp;</div=
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
Next year we will be storing everything in the cloud so I won't have to dea=
l with this PITA process.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
Thanks</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
tim</div>
</div>
</div>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 14:15:34 -0400

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On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 11:22 AM Tim . via Shop-talk <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> A USB portable hard drive should be much more reliable=E2=80=94this is wh=
at I
> wanted to do/use but management told me to get flash drives.
>

I hope management have been informed of the cost of that decision.

--0000000000002179e605a0d49356
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 11:22 AM Tim =
. via Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">shop-talk@a=
utox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-family:Ca=
libri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"=
font-size:12pt">A USB portable hard drive should be much more reliable=E2=
=80=94this is what I wanted to do/use but management told me to get flash d=
rives.=C2=A0</span><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I hope management h=
ave been informed of the cost of that decision.=C2=A0</div></div></div>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: "Tim . via Shop-talk" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 18:33:58 +0000

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	boundary="_000_DM6PR04MB6511741FE83C14FBC81B39B9B4FB0DM6PR04MB6511namp_"

--_000_DM6PR04MB6511741FE83C14FBC81B39B9B4FB0DM6PR04MB6511namp_
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oh yea. I've told my supervisor where it most likely won't go anywhere else=
.

________________________________
From: Shop-talk <[email-masked]> on behalf of Jeff Scarbr=
ough via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 1:15 PM
To: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] OT flash drives

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 11:22 AM Tim . via Shop-talk <[email-masked].=

--_000_DM6PR04MB6511741FE83C14FBC81B39B9B4FB0DM6PR04MB6511namp_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
oh yea. I've told my supervisor where it most likely won't go anywhere else=
.&nbsp;</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Shop-talk &lt;shop-ta=
[email-masked]&gt; on behalf of Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk &l=
t;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 14, 2020 1:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> [email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] OT flash drives</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ti=
m . via Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">shop-talk=
@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt">A USB portable hard drive should be much mor=
e reliable=97this is what I wanted to do/use but management told me to get =
flash drives.&nbsp;</span><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I hope management have been informed of the cost of that decision.&nbs=
p;</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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[email-masked]

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From: Steven Trovato via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 14:44:33 -0400

Why is that?  At first glance, I would think that something with no 
moving parts would be more reliable than something with moving parts, 
if both are manufactured to the same standard.

-Steve T.

At 02:57 PM 3/12/2020, Doug Braun via Shop-talk wrote:
>A USB portable hard drive (the real, spinning kind) should be much 
>more reliable than a run-of-the-mill USB flash drive, as long as you 
>don't handle it roughly.
>
>Doug

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[email-masked]

---

From: Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 14:57:08 -0400

--===============0005882010634312465==

--000000000000b84af105a0d5271d

> if both are manufactured to the same standard.

Flash memory has a limited number of read-write cycles.  It's usually a
large number, but the process is inherently riskier than magnetic memory
(or so I'm told).

Modern hard drives park the heads when it's not in operation, so if the
drive isn't spinning, it's difficult to damage the media short of a long
drop or submersion.

--000000000000b84af105a0d5271d
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 2:45 PM Steve=
n Trovato via Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">sho=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex">Why is that?=C2=A0 At first glance, I would think that=
 something with no <br>
moving parts would be more reliable than something with moving parts, <br>
if both are manufactured to the same standard.</blockquote><div><br></div><=
div>Flash memory has a limited number of read-write cycles.=C2=A0 It&#39;s =
usually a large number, but the process is inherently riskier than magnetic=
 memory (or so I&#39;m told).</div><div><br></div><div>Modern hard drives p=
ark the heads when it&#39;s not in operation, so if the drive isn&#39;t spi=
nning, it&#39;s difficult to damage the media short of a long drop or subme=
rsion.=C2=A0 =C2=A0</div></div></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Pat Horne via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 14:06:22 -0500

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My understanding of flash drive wear out is that it=E2=80=99s not as bad as i=
t seems. While the write count is in the thousands, it takes a long time to g=
et there. The flash file system spreads the writes - even rewrites out to ev=
en out the writes on the media. Let=E2=80=99s say you have a number that you=
 increment as a counter. Each time it is rewritten it is written in a differ=
ent place, making the drives pretty robust. Another thing, when a location e=
ventually dies, the previous data is still there, just becomes read only, so=
 the data can bee retrieved.=20

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne=20
We support Habitat for Humanity

> On Mar 14, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk <shop-talk@auto=
x.team.net> wrote:
>=20

=EF=BB=BF

> On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 2:45 PM Steven Trovato via Shop-talk <shop-talk@au=
tox.team.net> wrote:
> Why is that?  At first glance, I would think that something with no=20
> moving parts would be more reliable than something with moving parts,=20

Flash memory has a limited number of read-write cycles.  It's usually a larg=
e number, but the process is inherently riskier than magnetic memory (or so I=
'm told).

Modern hard drives park the heads when it's not in operation, so if the driv=
e isn't spinning, it's difficult to damage the media short of a long drop or=
 submersion.  =20
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve

[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">My understanding of flash drive wear out is=
 that it=E2=80=99s not as bad as it seems. While the write count is in the t=
housands, it takes a long time to get there. The flash file system spreads t=
he writes - even rewrites out to even out the writes on the media. Let=E2=80=
=99s say you have a number that you increment as a counter. Each time it is r=
ewritten it is written in a different place, making the drives pretty robust=
. Another thing, when a location eventually dies, the previous data is still=
 there, just becomes read only, so the data can bee retrieved.&nbsp;<div><br=
></div><div>Peace,</div><div>Pat<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Pat Horne&nbsp;<div=
>We support Habitat for Humanity</div><div><br></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Mar 14, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Jeff Scarbrough v=
ia Shop-talk &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Ma=
r 14, 2020 at 2:45 PM Steven Trovato via Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sho=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:=
1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Why is that?&nbsp; At first gla=
nce, I would think that something with no <br>
moving parts would be more reliable than something with moving parts, <br>
if both are manufactured to the same standard.</blockquote><div><br></div><d=
iv>Flash memory has a limited number of read-write cycles.&nbsp; It's usuall=
y a large number, but the process is inherently riskier than magnetic memory=
 (or so I'm told).</div><div><br></div><div>Modern hard drives park the head=
s when it's not in operation, so if the drive isn't spinning, it's difficult=
 to damage the media short of a long drop or submersion.&nbsp; &nbsp;</div><=
/div></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span></span=
><br><span>[email-masked]</span><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.=
net/donate.html</span><br><span>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.96</span=
><br><span>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.tea=
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tox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</span><br><span=
></span><br></div></div></body></html>=

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---

From: Al Fuller via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 14:14:26 -0400

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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This discussion of using flash [or other electronic non-volatile memory =
for storage] reminds me of how we used to treat magnetic tape used for =
backups. Since it was known to have a limited number of cycles, we kept =
track of use, and retired the media BEFORE it began to show symptoms of =
degrading.  I suspect people still using tape continue to actively =
manage the media=E2=80=A6

=20

----------------

All the best,

=20

Al Fuller

=20

From: Shop-talk <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Jeff =
Scarbrough via Shop-talk
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:57 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] OT flash drives

=20

=20

=20

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 2:45 PM Steven Trovato via Shop-talk =

=20

Flash memory has a limited number of read-write cycles.  It's usually a =
large number, but the process is inherently riskier than magnetic memory =
(or so I'm told).

=20

Modern hard drives park the heads when it's not in operation, so if the =
drive isn't spinning, it's difficult to damage the media short of a long =
drop or submersion.  =20

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<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" =
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>This =
discussion of using flash [or other electronic non-volatile memory for =
storage] reminds me of how we used to treat magnetic tape used for =
backups. Since it was known to have a limited number of cycles, we kept =
track of use, and retired the media BEFORE it began to show symptoms of =
degrading.=C2=A0 I suspect people still using tape continue to actively =
manage the media=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>----------------<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>All the best,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Al =
Fuller<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Shop-talk =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff =
Scarbrough via Shop-talk<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:57 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> [email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Shop-talk] OT flash drives<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 2:45 PM Steven Trovato via Shop-talk &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Why is =
that?&nbsp; At first glance, I would think that something with no =
<br>moving parts would be more reliable than something with moving =
parts, <br>if both are manufactured to the same =
standard.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Flash memory has a limited number of read-write =
cycles.&nbsp; It's usually a large number, but the process is inherently =
riskier than magnetic memory (or so I'm =
told).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Modern hard drives park the heads when it's not in =
operation, so if the drive isn't spinning, it's difficult to damage the =
media short of a long drop or submersion.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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From: John Innis via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 14:41:24 -0500

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I have had mixed results with these.  Actually pretty much the same results
I see with flash-based drives.  The cheap ones seem to fail often, where
the good ones seem to last forever.  Forever meaning at least a few years.
I have had a number of mechanical drives fail while sitting on the shelf
for years at a time.  Flash seems less susceptible to the bit rot issue.
Generally speaking, you want your backups running on drives that are hooked
up and updating.  Preferably in a RAID arrangement that provides some level
of redundancy.  If you don't want to go the RAID route, rotate drives so
your backups are redundant.
A note on cloud based services.  They are generally very good at what they
do, but there are different risk when using the cloud.  For example this
week an un-patched bug was announced in windows 10 that could have security
implications for some cloud based services.  There is a risk that hackers
could get in and steal your data or ransom it.  Cloud is great for off site
backup in the event of fire or other local disaster, and for getting data
to other locations, but I would not trust is as my only source of backups.

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:00 PM Doug Braun via Shop-talk <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 8:26 AM Tim . via Shop-talk <

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I have had mixed results with these.=C2=A0 Actually p=
retty much the same results I see with flash-based drives.=C2=A0 The cheap =
ones seem to fail often, where the good ones seem to last forever.=C2=A0 Fo=
rever meaning at least a few years.=C2=A0 I have had a number of mechanical=
 drives fail while sitting on the shelf for years at a time.=C2=A0 Flash se=
ems less susceptible to the bit rot issue.=C2=A0 Generally speaking, you wa=
nt your backups running on drives that are hooked up and updating.=C2=A0 Pr=
eferably in a RAID arrangement that provides some level of redundancy.=C2=
=A0 If you don&#39;t want to go the RAID route, rotate drives so your backu=
ps are redundant.=C2=A0 <br></div><div>A note on cloud based services.=C2=
=A0 They are generally very good at what they do, but there are different r=
isk when using the cloud.=C2=A0 For example this week an un-patched bug was=
 announced in windows 10 that could have security implications for some clo=
ud based services.=C2=A0 There is a risk that hackers could get in and stea=
l your data or ransom it.=C2=A0 Cloud is great for off site backup in the e=
vent of fire or other local disaster, and for getting data to other locatio=
ns, but I would not trust is as my only source of backups.</div><div><br></=
div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_at=
tr">On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:00 PM Doug Braun via Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"=
>A USB portable hard drive (the real, spinning kind) should be much more re=
liable than a run-of-the-mill USB flash drive, as long as you don&#39;t han=
dle it roughly.<div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"au=
to">Doug</div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" c=
lass=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 8:26 AM Tim . via Shop-talk &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">shop-talk@auto=
x.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">

<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a><br>

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