Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Adding a tube into aluminum manifold

From: "Peter J. Thomas via Shop-talk" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:32:53 -0400

Drill and tap aluminum, then solder with aluminum solder rods.  HD 
carries Bernzomatic  AL3 rods, though I like the Forney Easy-Flo 
Aluminum Brazing Rod sold at Tractor Supply better.

On 9/15/2019 2:00 PM, Darrell Walker via Shop-talk wrote:
> I’m adapting a Land Rover intake manifold for use on my TR8.  One thing I need to do is add a connection from the manifold to feed the heater.  There is a place on the manifold that will work perfectly.
>
> My initial plan was to tap the manifold for a copper fitting.  But will there be an issue with copper threaded into aluminum?
>
>

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From: Darrell Walker via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 10:47:49 -0700

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the reply.  Is propane or MAP gas enough heat for those rods?

I forgot to mention, the pipe is 5/8”.  I could drop down to 1/2” (that’s what I was going to do in the copper, then up to 5/8” with a brass hose barf).  But since I’m brazing it, would straight threads be OK?  Technically, there is a 5/8” NPT size defined, but I’ve not found any taps or dies in that size.

-Darrell

> On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:32 AM, Peter J. Thomas <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Drill and tap aluminum, then solder with aluminum solder rods.  HD carries Bernzomatic  AL3 rods, though I like the Forney Easy-Flo Aluminum Brazing Rod sold at Tractor Supply better.
> 

[email-masked]

---

From: "Peter J. Thomas via Shop-talk" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 14:23:32 -0400

Propane is more than enough for these types of rods.  Map gas only burns 
a few hundred degrees hotter than propane, unless you use oxygen.

Straight thread should be fine.  The purpose of the tapered NPT thread 
is form a mechanical seal but since you are going to braze straight 
thread should be fine. I sealed a radiator hole in the fins with the 
Forney rods no leaks, so a brazing a tapped hole should be more than 
adequate.

[email-masked]

---

From: Randall via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 12:13:13 -0700

If you're going to braze, threads seem redundant.  Just make a tight fitting
hole.

MAPP isn't much hotter, but the flame transfers heat quite a bit better.
Obviously depends on which torch and so on, but my propane torch just
couldn't get the casting hot enough to melt the brazing rod.

This all seems like overkill to me, though.  Car makers routinely put steel
NPT fittings into aluminum manifolds, and they very rarely rot out even
after decades of service.

-- Randall 
56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild
71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild 

[email-masked]

---

From: Darrell Walker via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 15:10:47 -0700

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Hi Randall,

> On Sep 16, 2019, at 12:13 PM, Randall via Shop-talk =
<[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> This all seems like overkill to me, though.  Car makers routinely put =
steel
> NPT fittings into aluminum manifolds, and they very rarely rot out =
even
> after decades of service.

Thanks, I do see plenty of examples of steel.  What I didn=E2=80=99t =
know was if cooper would be better or worse.

-Darrell=

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Hi Randall,<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Sep =
16, 2019, at 12:13 PM, Randall via Shop-talk &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">This all seems like overkill to =
me, though. &nbsp;Car makers routinely put steel</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">NPT fittings into aluminum =
manifolds, and they very rarely rot out even</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">after decades of =
service.</span></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Thanks, I do see plenty of examples of steel. &nbsp;What I =
didn=E2=80=99t know was if cooper would be better or worse.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">-Darrell</div></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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From: Randall via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 15:57:50 -0700

> Thanks, I do see plenty of examples of steel.  What I didn't 

I don't know; but at least theoretically, copper would be worse.

Aluminum has a galvanic potential of -1.67 (according to
EngineeringToolbox.com), iron (steel) is -0.44 for a net difference of 1.23.

Copper is +0.34, for a net difference of 2.01.

The real world doesn't always follow theory, though, so YMMV.

-- Randall 

[email-masked]

---

From: Bob Spidell via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 18:02:38 -0700

FWIW, 'true' MAPP gas hasn't been available for some time: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAPP_gas

On 9/16/2019 11:23 AM, Peter J. Thomas via Shop-talk wrote:
> Propane is more than enough for these types of rods.  Map gas only 
> burns a few hundred degrees hotter than propane, unless you use oxygen.
>
>> I forgot to mention, the pipe is 5/8”.  I could drop down to 1/2” 
>> (that’s what I was going to do in the copper, then up to 5/8” with a 
>> brass hose barf).  But since I’m brazing it, would straight threads 
>> be OK?  Technically, there is a 5/8” NPT size defined, but I’ve not 
>> found any taps or dies in that size.
>>
>> -Darrell
>>
>>>> I’m adapting a Land Rover intake manifold for use on my TR8.  One 
>>>> thing I need to do is add a connection from the manifold to feed 
>>>> the heater.  There is a place on the manifold that will work 
>>>> perfectly.
>>>>
>>>> My initial plan was to tap the manifold for a copper fitting.  But 
>>>> will there be an issue with copper threaded into aluminum?
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>

[email-masked]

---

From: Jack Brooks via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 17:59:34 +0000

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Darrell,

I used the stock coolant locations and piped outside, instead of under the =
manifold on my TR8 with an SD1 3 piece intake.

I can provide pictures if that helps.

Jack
________________________________
From: Shop-talk <[email-masked]> on behalf of Darrell Wal=
ker via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 10:47:49 AM
To: Peter J. Thomas <[email-masked]>
Cc: Steven Trovato via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Adding a tube into aluminum manifold

Hi Peter,

I forgot to mention, the pipe is 5/8=94.  I could drop down to 1/2=94 (that=
=92s what I was going to do in the copper, then up to 5/8=94 with a brass h=
ose barf).  But since I=92m brazing it, would straight threads be OK?  Tech=
nically, there is a 5/8=94 NPT size defined, but I=92ve not found any taps =
or dies in that size.

-Darrell

> On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:32 AM, Peter J. Thomas <[email-masked]> wro=
te:
>
> Drill and tap aluminum, then solder with aluminum solder rods.  HD carrie=
s Bernzomatic  AL3 rods, though I like the Forney Easy-Flo Aluminum Brazing=
 Rod sold at Tractor Supply better.
>> I=92m adapting a Land Rover intake manifold for use on my TR8.  One thin=
g I need to do is add a connection from the manifold to feed the heater.  T=
here is a place on the manifold that will work perfectly.
>>
>> My initial plan was to tap the manifold for a copper fitting.  But will =
there be an issue with copper threaded into aluminum?

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive

[email-masked]

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<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"direction:ltr; margin:0; padding:0; font-family:=
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Darrell,<br>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"direction:ltr; margin:0; padding:0; font-family:=
sans-serif; font-size:11pt; color:black">
I used the stock coolant locations and piped outside, instead of under the =
manifold on my TR8 with an SD1 3 piece intake.&nbsp;
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"direction:ltr; margin:0; padding:0; font-family:=
sans-serif; font-size:11pt; color:black">
I can provide pictures if that helps.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"direction:ltr; margin:0; padding:0; font-family:=
sans-serif; font-size:11pt; color:black">
Jack</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" =
color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Shop-talk &lt;shop-=
[email-masked]&gt; on behalf of Darrell Walker via Shop-talk &=
lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 16, 2019 10:47:49 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Peter J. Thomas &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Steven Trovato via Shop-talk &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br=
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] Adding a tube into aluminum manifold</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
</div>
<font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">
<div class=3D"PlainText"><br>
Hi Peter,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the reply.&nbsp; Is propane or MAP gas enough heat for those rod=
s?<br>
<br>
I forgot to mention, the pipe is 5/8=94.&nbsp; I could drop down to 1/2=94 =
(that=92s what I was going to do in the copper, then up to 5/8=94 with a br=
ass hose barf).&nbsp; But since I=92m brazing it, would straight threads be=
 OK?&nbsp; Technically, there is a 5/8=94 NPT size defined,
 but I=92ve not found any taps or dies in that size.<br>
<br>
-Darrell<br>
<br>
&gt; On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:32 AM, Peter J. Thomas &lt;[email-masked]=
t&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Drill and tap aluminum, then solder with aluminum solder rods.&nbsp; H=
D carries Bernzomatic&nbsp; AL3 rods, though I like the Forney Easy-Flo Alu=
minum Brazing Rod sold at Tractor Supply better.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On 9/15/2019 2:00 PM, Darrell Walker via Shop-talk wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; I=92m adapting a Land Rover intake manifold for use on my TR8.&nbs=
p; One thing I need to do is add a connection from the manifold to feed the=
 heater.&nbsp; There is a place on the manifold that will work perfectly.<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; My initial plan was to tap the manifold for a copper fitting.&nbsp=
; But will there be an issue with copper threaded into aluminum?<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
[email-masked]<br>
ate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk">http://www.tea=
m.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>=
<br>
<br>
alk/[email-masked]">
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