Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] B&S mower engine, surging and dying. Ideas?

From: Pat Horne via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 19:42:52 -0500

Try leaving the fuel cap loose to see if that helps. 

Will it start up when it dies with starting fluid. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity

On May 20, 2019, at 4:57 PM, David Hillman via Shop-talk <[email-masked]> wrote:

  Ok, I'm out of ideas.  Requesting new ones.

  I have a Craftsman walk-behind mower with a 163cc Briggs & Stratton 4-stroke engine ( engine: 104m02-0008-f1 to be precise ).  It's only 3 or 4 years old, but it will not run.  And it's starting to piss me off.

  It starts normally ( no manual prime or choke, so it takes ~3 pulls but it always has ), and runs fine for less than 5 minutes.  After that, it surges rhythmically and after a minute or so of that, dies.  Following that, it will not re-start until allowed to rest for a few minutes.

  I have installed a new plug, new air filter, new carburetor, and new ignitor.  I checked and set the gap on the plug and the ignitor to spec ( .030" and .006-.014" respectively ).  Has clean oil, and brand new gas. Fuel screen in the tank is clean, as is the fuel hose to the carb. Carb bowl has fuel.

  What else can be wrong with it?  It seems to be heat-related, but it has no cooling system.

  Thanks.

Obligatory Shop Content: I can't work on anything interesting until this damn mower runs.

--
David Hillman
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

---

From: Scott Hall via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 22:48:12 -0500

--===============8876064749756569292==

--00000000000093aaa005895db841

This. Sounds like it's running just long enough to get a vacuum on the fuel
tank, then starving for gas. Then sitting until the tank reaches
atmospheric again. Then repeat.

On Mon, May 20, 2019, 7:43 PM Pat Horne via Shop-talk <
[email-masked]> wrote:

>   I have a Craftsman walk-behind mower with a 163cc Briggs & Stratton
> 4-stroke engine ( engine: 104m02-0008-f1 to be precise ).  It's only 3 or 4
> years old, but it will not run.  And it's starting to piss me off.
>
>   It starts normally ( no manual prime or choke, so it takes ~3 pulls but
> it always has ), and runs fine for less than 5 minutes.  After that, it
> surges rhythmically and after a minute or so of that, dies.  Following
> that, it will not re-start until allowed to rest for a few minutes.
>
>   I have installed a new plug, new air filter, new carburetor, and new
> ignitor.  I checked and set the gap on the plug and the ignitor to spec (
> .030" and .006-.014" respectively ).  Has clean oil, and brand new gas.
> Fuel screen in the tank is clean, as is the fuel hose to the carb. Carb
> bowl has fuel.
>

--00000000000093aaa005895db841
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto"><div>This. Sounds like it&#39;s running just long enough =
to get a vacuum on the fuel tank, then starving for gas. Then sitting until=
 the tank reaches atmospheric again. Then repeat.<br><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, May 20, 2019, 7:43 P=
M Pat Horne via Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">s=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex">Try leaving the fuel cap loose to see if that helps. <br>
<br>
Will it start up when it dies with starting fluid. <br>
<br>
Peace,<br>
Pat<br>
<br>
Pat Horne <br>
We support Habitat for Humanity<br>
<br>
<br>
On May 20, 2019, at 4:57 PM, David Hillman via Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">shop-tal=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 Ok, I&#39;m out of ideas.=C2=A0 Requesting new ones.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 I have a Craftsman walk-behind mower with a 163cc Briggs &amp; Strat=
ton 4-stroke engine ( engine: 104m02-0008-f1 to be precise ).=C2=A0 It&#39;=
s only 3 or 4 years old, but it will not run.=C2=A0 And it&#39;s starting t=
o piss me off.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 It starts normally ( no manual prime or choke, so it takes ~3 pulls =
but it always has ), and runs fine for less than 5 minutes.=C2=A0 After tha=
t, it surges rhythmically and after a minute or so of that, dies.=C2=A0 Fol=
lowing that, it will not re-start until allowed to rest for a few minutes.<=
br>
<br>
=C2=A0 I have installed a new plug, new air filter, new carburetor, and new=
 ignitor.=C2=A0 I checked and set the gap on the plug and the ignitor to sp=
ec ( .030&quot; and .006-.014&quot; respectively ).=C2=A0 Has clean oil, an=
d brand new gas. Fuel screen in the tank is clean, as is the fuel hose to t=
he carb. Carb bowl has fuel.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 What else can be wrong with it?=C2=A0 It seems to be heat-related, b=
ut it has no cooling system.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 Thanks.<br>
<br>
Obligatory Shop Content: I can&#39;t work on anything interesting until thi=
s damn mower runs.<br>
</blockquote></div></div></div>

--00000000000093aaa005895db841--

--===============8876064749756569292==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

[email-masked]

--===============8876064749756569292==--

---

From: Bob Spidell via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 20:54:28 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--===============3460576548551368421==
 boundary="------------85BB890D1D2AE7B75B7E2FA3"
Content-Language: en-US

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------85BB890D1D2AE7B75B7E2FA3
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I had a surging problem on an ExMark--really, a tarted-up 
Toro--zero-turn and they ended up replacing the engine due to worn rings 
(intake manifold was getting oiled-up).  Don't ask me why, but nothing 
else--carburetion, spark, etc.--made sense either. We're talking a 
rhythmic pulsing, and not sputtering, right?  Worn rings might make the 
engine's power ebb-and-flow, I suppose.

Bob

On 5/20/2019 8:48 PM, Scott Hall via Shop-talk wrote:
> This. Sounds like it's running just long enough to get a vacuum on the 
> fuel tank, then starving for gas. Then sitting until the tank reaches 
> On Mon, May 20, 2019, 7:43 PM Pat Horne via Shop-talk 
>
>     On May 20, 2019, at 4:57 PM, David Hillman via Shop-talk
>
>
>       I have a Craftsman walk-behind mower with a 163cc Briggs &
>     Stratton 4-stroke engine ( engine: 104m02-0008-f1 to be precise
>     ).  It's only 3 or 4 years old, but it will not run.  And it's
>     starting to piss me off.
>
>       It starts normally ( no manual prime or choke, so it takes ~3
>     pulls but it always has ), and runs fine for less than 5 minutes. 
>     After that, it surges rhythmically and after a minute or so of
>     that, dies.  Following that, it will not re-start until allowed to
>     rest for a few minutes.
>
>       I have installed a new plug, new air filter, new carburetor, and
>     new ignitor.  I checked and set the gap on the plug and the
>     ignitor to spec ( .030" and .006-.014" respectively ).  Has clean
>     oil, and brand new gas. Fuel screen in the tank is clean, as is
>     the fuel hose to the carb. Carb bowl has fuel.
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>

--------------85BB890D1D2AE7B75B7E2FA3
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>I had a surging problem on an ExMark--really, a tarted-up
      Toro--zero-turn and they ended up replacing the engine due to worn
      rings (intake manifold was getting oiled-up).  Don't ask me why,
      but nothing else--carburetion, spark, etc.--made sense either. 
      We're talking a rhythmic pulsing, and not sputtering, right?  Worn
      rings might make the engine's power ebb-and-flow, I suppose.</p>
    <p>Bob<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/20/2019 8:48 PM, Scott Hall via
      Shop-talk wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="auto">
        <div>This. Sounds like it's running just long enough to get a
          vacuum on the fuel tank, then starving for gas. Then sitting
          until the tank reaches atmospheric again. Then repeat.<br>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, May 20, 2019, 7:43
              PM Pat Horne via Shop-talk &lt;<a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Try
              leaving the fuel cap loose to see if that helps. <br>
              <br>
              Will it start up when it dies with starting fluid. <br>
              <br>
              Peace,<br>
              Pat<br>
              <br>
              Pat Horne <br>
              We support Habitat for Humanity<br>
              <br>
              <br>
              On May 20, 2019, at 4:57 PM, David Hillman via Shop-talk
              &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
              wrote:<br>
              <br>
              <br>
                Ok, I'm out of ideas.  Requesting new ones.<br>
              <br>
                I have a Craftsman walk-behind mower with a 163cc Briggs
              &amp; Stratton 4-stroke engine ( engine: 104m02-0008-f1 to
              be precise ).  It's only 3 or 4 years old, but it will not
              run.  And it's starting to piss me off.<br>
              <br>
                It starts normally ( no manual prime or choke, so it
              takes ~3 pulls but it always has ), and runs fine for less
              than 5 minutes.  After that, it surges rhythmically and
              after a minute or so of that, dies.  Following that, it
              will not re-start until allowed to rest for a few minutes.<br>
              <br>
                I have installed a new plug, new air filter, new
              carburetor, and new ignitor.  I checked and set the gap on
              the plug and the ignitor to spec ( .030" and .006-.014"
              respectively ).  Has clean oil, and brand new gas. Fuel
              screen in the tank is clean, as is the fuel hose to the
              carb. Carb bowl has fuel.<br>
              <br>
                What else can be wrong with it?  It seems to be
              heat-related, but it has no cooling system.<br>
              <br>
                Thanks.<br>
              <br>
              Obligatory Shop Content: I can't work on anything
              interesting until this damn mower runs.<br>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

--------------85BB890D1D2AE7B75B7E2FA3--

--===============3460576548551368421==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

[email-masked]

--===============3460576548551368421==--

---

From: Bob Spidell via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 21:25:09 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--===============8259852815168755318==
 boundary="------------C2977EE04CA27F15222B9E8C"
Content-Language: en-US

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------C2977EE04CA27F15222B9E8C
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Addendum:  I'm beginning to think this might be a characteristic of 
air-cooled engines (air-cooled engines have larger clearances to begin 
with).  I've never seen/heard a liquid-cooled engine do exactly this 
but, then again, I don't recall any aircraft engines doing it--they have 
dual ignition systems, maybe that makes a difference?--and, if one did, 
I wouldn't fly behind it.

Bob

On 5/20/2019 8:54 PM, Bob Spidell via Shop-talk wrote:
> rings (intake manifold was getting oiled-up).  Don't ask me why, but 
> nothing else--carburetion, spark, etc.--made sense either.  We're 
> talking a rhythmic pulsing, and not sputtering, right?  Worn rings 
> might make the engine's power ebb-and-flow, I suppose.
>
> Bob
>
>> This. Sounds like it's running just long enough to get a vacuum on 
>> the fuel tank, then starving for gas. Then sitting until the tank 
>> reaches atmospheric again. Then repeat.
>>
>>     pulls but it always has ), and runs fine for less than 5
>>     minutes.  After that, it surges rhythmically and after a minute
>>     or so of that, dies.  Following that, it will not re-start until
>>     allowed to rest for a few minutes.
>>
>>       I have installed a new plug, new air filter, new carburetor,
>>     and new ignitor.  I checked and set the gap on the plug and the
>> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk  http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>>
>

--------------C2977EE04CA27F15222B9E8C
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Addendum:  I'm beginning to think this might be a characteristic
      of air-cooled engines (air-cooled engines have larger clearances
      to begin with).  I've never seen/heard a liquid-cooled engine do
      exactly this but, then again, I don't recall any aircraft engines
      doing it--they have dual ignition systems, maybe that makes a
      difference?--and, if one did, I wouldn't fly behind it.</p>
    <p>Bob<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/20/2019 8:54 PM, Bob Spidell via
      Shop-talk wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <p>I had a surging problem on an ExMark--really, a tarted-up
        Toro--zero-turn and they ended up replacing the engine due to
        worn rings (intake manifold was getting oiled-up).  Don't ask me
        why, but nothing else--carburetion, spark, etc.--made sense
        either.  We're talking a rhythmic pulsing, and not sputtering,
        right?  Worn rings might make the engine's power ebb-and-flow, I
        suppose.</p>
      <p>Bob<br>
      </p>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/20/2019 8:48 PM, Scott Hall via
        Shop-talk wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
        <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
          charset=UTF-8">
        <div dir="auto">
          <div>This. Sounds like it's running just long enough to get a
            vacuum on the fuel tank, then starving for gas. Then sitting
            until the tank reaches atmospheric again. Then repeat.<br>
            <br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">
              <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, May 20, 2019,
                7:43 PM Pat Horne via Shop-talk &lt;<a
                  href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Try
                leaving the fuel cap loose to see if that helps. <br>
                <br>
                Will it start up when it dies with starting fluid. <br>
                <br>
                Peace,<br>
                Pat<br>
                <br>
                Pat Horne <br>
                We support Habitat for Humanity<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                On May 20, 2019, at 4:57 PM, David Hillman via Shop-talk
                &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                  target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                wrote:<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                  Ok, I'm out of ideas.  Requesting new ones.<br>
                <br>
                  I have a Craftsman walk-behind mower with a 163cc
                Briggs &amp; Stratton 4-stroke engine ( engine:
                104m02-0008-f1 to be precise ).  It's only 3 or 4 years
                old, but it will not run.  And it's starting to piss me
                off.<br>
                <br>
                  It starts normally ( no manual prime or choke, so it
                takes ~3 pulls but it always has ), and runs fine for
                less than 5 minutes.  After that, it surges rhythmically
                and after a minute or so of that, dies.  Following that,
                it will not re-start until allowed to rest for a few
                minutes.<br>
                <br>
                  I have installed a new plug, new air filter, new
                carburetor, and new ignitor.  I checked and set the gap
                on the plug and the ignitor to spec ( .030" and
                .006-.014" respectively ).  Has clean oil, and brand new
                gas. Fuel screen in the tank is clean, as is the fuel
                hose to the carb. Carb bowl has fuel.<br>
                <br>
                  What else can be wrong with it?  It seems to be
                heat-related, but it has no cooling system.<br>
                <br>
                  Thanks.<br>
                <br>
                Obligatory Shop Content: I can't work on anything
                interesting until this damn mower runs.<br>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
        <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/archive" moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>

</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <br>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

--------------C2977EE04CA27F15222B9E8C--

--===============8259852815168755318==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

[email-masked]

--===============8259852815168755318==--

---

From: David Hillman via Shop-talk <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 16:27:33 -0400 (EDT)

Yes, it does, but I tried removing the cap to no avail.  Thanks.

[email-masked]