Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery Starter/Charger

From: Jim Stone <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2018 15:24:11 -0400

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Opps.  Just looked at the JUMPSTARTA more closely and see that it is a =
"Mains Operated Starter=E2=80=9D, not a portable battery pack, which is =
what it resembled.  So, ignore my previous comment that "it will almost =
definitely be a transformer=E2=80=9D.  That is not correct and Nick is =
kind not to shame me for it.

> On Sep 8, 2018, at 9:37 AM, jonnic1947 <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> That's right Pat. There's also the 50hz v 60hz difference to think =
about.=20
>=20
> However the firm who make them are competent engineers and I'm sure =
that an email query would result in a proper solution. One of the =
advantages of dealing with someone who actually makes something rather =
than a multinational venture capital conglomerate...
>=20
> Nick
>=20
>=20
> ---- On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 12:56:09 +0000 Pat Horne =
<[email-masked]> wrote ----
>=20
> One thing about the UK unit is that it will probably require 220v =
service.=20
>=20
> Peace,
> Pat
>=20
> Pat Horne=20
> We support Caldwell County Habitat for Humanity
>=20
>=20
> On Sep 7, 2018, at 3:55 PM, jonnic1947 <[email-masked] =
> This is not exactly what is being discussed but I bought one 30+ years =
ago and it has never failed on any flat battery that was not completely =
sulphated. On diesel engines up to 6 litre capacity.
>=20
> http://www.bcet.co.uk/jumpastarta-starter-motor.html =
<http://www.bcet.co.uk/jumpastarta-starter-motor.html>
>=20
> Maybe expensive but with the GBP currently on the floor versus the USD =
there's no better time to buy.
>=20
> Your only problem will be that any neighbour with a poor starting car =
will always be wanting to borrow it.
>=20
> Nick Brearley
>=20
>=20
> ---- On Fri, 07 Sep 2018 00:07:26 +0000 <[email-masked] =
>=20
> Bob,=20
> Another option is what I do.  I hate those anemic jump boxes.  They =
are pretty much just an undersized battery with cables attached.=20
>=20
> What I did was get some quick disconnection battery terminals like =
these, but heavier duty...=20
> =
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anderson-SB120-Connector-Kit-Blue-2-Awg-6801G1/27=
0508372567 =
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anderson-SB120-Connector-Kit-Blue-2-Awg-6801G1/2=
70508372567>=20
>=20
>=20
> Then I put them on  my zero turn mower.  The battery I use in that =
tractor is a normal car sized fit and I put a high CCA battery in it.=20
>=20
> When I need to jump start something, I can quickly remove it from the =
tractor, and attach the special jumper cable I made (with one end having =
that connector) to the battery and I'm in business.=20
>=20
> Sometimes I don't even need to remove the battery from the tractor.=20
>=20
> If you don't have a tractor (or other toy) that takes a car sized =
battery, and you can't find a proper jump charger, just buy a normal car =
battery and trickle charger.  It beats the jump box because it's cheaper =
with more power.=20
>=20
> Just another option.
>=20
> Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem.
> Tech Viper
> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a =
rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your =
territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson =
_______________________________________________
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>=20
> Suggested annual donation $12.96=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk>=20
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked] =
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>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html =
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> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk =
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>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
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>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> [email-masked]
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Opps.=
 &nbsp;Just looked at the&nbsp;JUMPSTARTA more closely and see that it =
is a "Mains Operated Starter=E2=80=9D, not a portable battery pack, =
which is what it resembled. &nbsp;So, ignore my previous comment that =
"it will almost definitely be a transformer=E2=80=9D. &nbsp;That is not =
correct and Nick is kind not to shame me for it.<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Sep 8, 2018, at 9:37 AM, jonnic1947 &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
 wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta=
 content=3D"text/html;charset=3DUTF-8" http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"font-size:10pt;color:#00000;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">That's right Pat. There's also the 50hz v =
60hz difference to think about. <br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">However the firm who make them are =
competent engineers and I'm sure that an email query would result in a =
proper solution. One of the advantages of dealing with someone who =
actually makes something rather than a multinational venture capital =
conglomerate...<br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Nick</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"zmail_extra"><div id=3D"Zm-_Id_-Sgn1" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">---- On =
Sat, 08 Sep 2018 12:56:09 +0000&nbsp;<b class=3D"">Pat Horne &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</b> wrote ----<br =
class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><blockquote =
style=3D"border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 6px; margin:0 0 0 =
5px" class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D""><div class=3D"">One thing =
about the UK unit is that it will probably require 220v =
service.&nbsp;<br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Peace,<br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Pat<br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Pat Horne&nbsp;<br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">We support Caldwell County Habitat for =
Humanity<br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">On Sep 7, 2018, at 3:55 PM, jonnic1947 =
&lt;<a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"font-size: 10pt" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">This is not exactly what is being discussed =
but I bought one 30+ years ago and it has never failed on any flat =
battery that was not completely sulphated. On diesel engines up to 6 =
litre capacity.<br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://www.bcet.co.uk/jumpastarta-starter-motor.html" =
target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://www.bcet.co.uk/jumpastarta-starter-motor.html</a><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Maybe expensive but with the GBP currently on the floor =
versus the USD there's no better time to buy.<br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Your only problem will =
be that any neighbour with a poor starting car will always be wanting to =
borrow it.<br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Nick Brearley<br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"x_-1190513954zmail_extra"><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">---- On =
Fri, 07 Sep 2018 00:07:26 +0000&nbsp;<b class=3D"">&lt;<a =
target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</b> wrote ----<br =
class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><blockquote =
style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 6px; =
margin: 0 0 0 5px" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><span =
class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:sans-serif"><span class=3D"size" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">Bob,</span></span> <br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:sans-serif"><span =
class=3D"size" style=3D"font-size:13px">Another option is what I do. =
&nbsp;I hate those anemic jump boxes. &nbsp;They are pretty much just an =
undersized battery with cables attached.</span></span> <br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:sans-serif"><span =
class=3D"size" style=3D"font-size:13px">What I did was get some quick =
disconnection battery terminals like these, but heavier =
duty...</span></span> <br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anderson-SB120-Connector-Kit-Blue-2-Awg-6=
801G1/270508372567" target=3D"_blank" class=3D""><span class=3D"font" =
style=3D"font-family:sans-serif"><span class=3D"size" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anderson-SB120-Connector=
-Kit-Blue-2-Awg-6801G1/270508372567</span></span></a> <br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><span class=3D"font" =
style=3D"font-family:sans-serif"><span class=3D"size" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">Then I put them on &nbsp;my zero turn mower. =
&nbsp;The battery I use in that tractor is a normal car sized fit and I =
put a high CCA battery in it.</span></span> <br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><span class=3D"font" =
style=3D"font-family:sans-serif"><span class=3D"size" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">When I need to jump start something, I can =
quickly remove it from the tractor, and attach the special jumper cable =
I made (with one end having that connector) to the battery and I'm in =
business.</span></span> <br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><span class=3D"font" =
style=3D"font-family:sans-serif"><span class=3D"size" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">Sometimes I don't even need to remove the =
battery from the tractor.</span></span> <br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><span class=3D"font" =
style=3D"font-family:sans-serif"><span class=3D"size" =
style=3D"font-size:13px">If you don't have a tractor (or other toy) that =
takes a car sized battery, and you can't find a proper jump charger, =
just buy a normal car battery and trickle charger. &nbsp;It beats the =
jump box because it's cheaper with more power.</span></span> <br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:sans-serif"><span =
class=3D"size" style=3D"font-size:13px">Just another option.<br =
class=3D""> <br class=3D""> Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud =
Modem.<br class=3D""> Tech Viper<br class=3D""> "Be as beneficent as the =
sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, =
die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson =
</span></span>_______________________________________________</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a> <br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Suggested annual donation  $12.96 <br =
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o.uk</a> <br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
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class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><span class=3D""><a target=3D"_blank" =
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class=3D""></div>_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D"">Donate: =
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_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk

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---

From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2018 08:15:51 -0400

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 That's a bad assumption.  It is much safer to assume you cannot switch bet=
ween 110 and 220 with a transformer.  Transformers CAN be designed to be sw=
itch between the two voltages using dual primary windings allowing them to =
be configured in either parallel or series.  Many pieces of equipment are s=
o designed and many of those have a switch somewhere allowing the end user =
to select the appropriate voltage.  When using equipment it is a good idea =
to look for this switch and, if found, make sure it is in the correct posit=
ion.

If no such switch is found, check the label.  UL, CSA, CE, VDE and other ap=
proval agencies require a label indicating the input power ratings includin=
g voltage, frequency and power.

Back when I was designing line powered stuff we designed around the voltage=
 range of 90 to 132 (180 - 264) Vac so whether you have 220, 230 or 240 sho=
uld not be an issue for consumer products.  Many electronic devices work ov=
er the range of 90 to 264 volts but this is because of some sophisticated e=
lectronics in the power supply section specifically designed to accommodate=
 this range.

The UK unit, if it is a transformer-based design, most likely is design for=
 the EU market and will not work as advertised on 120 Vac.  The electrical =
requirements are for 230 volts up to 16 amps.  To get the same kick out of =
a 120 volt device would need over 32 amps which is well in excess of the ty=
pical domestic branch circuit and if you are going to run a special circuit=
 you may as well make it a 230 volt circuit.

=20

Dave Massey

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Stone <[email-masked]>
To: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>; Shop Talk <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sat, Sep 8, 2018 5:52 pm
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery Starter/Charger

That is true, but it will almost definitely be a transformer and many (most=
?) modern transformers can handle 110-220v, meaning only a plug converter w=
ill be needed.  And, if the transformer isn=E2=80=99t compatible then it wo=
uld just be a matter of finding a comparable US one.  For reference, my Clo=
re charger is 18v 500 mA.

Which does bring up one drawback of the charger packs: it just took me a mi=
nute to find the charger.  Without one, the pack is essentially worthless. =
 The Clore came with a cigarette lighter plug that is supposed to let you c=
harge it directly from a running car, but that never seemed to work.  It mi=
ght just be a problem with my charger.  I never contacted them to find out.

On Sep 8, 2018, at 8:56 AM, Pat Horne <[email-masked]> wrote:

One thing about the UK unit is that it will probably require 220v service.=
=20

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne=20

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<font color=3D'black' size=3D'3' face=3D'Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'>
<div> <font size=3D"3">That's a bad assumption.&nbsp; It is much safer to a=
ssume you cannot switch between 110 and 220 with a transformer.&nbsp; Trans=
formers CAN be designed to be switch between the two voltages using dual pr=
imary windings allowing them to be configured in either parallel or series.=
&nbsp; Many pieces of equipment are so designed and many of those have a sw=
itch somewhere allowing the end user to select the appropriate voltage.&nbs=
p; When using equipment it is a good idea to look for this switch and, if f=
ound, make sure it is in the correct position.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">If no such switch is found, check the label.&nbsp; UL=
, CSA, CE, VDE and other approval agencies require a label indicating the i=
nput power ratings including voltage, frequency and power.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">Back when I was designing line powered stuff we desig=
ned around the voltage range of 90 to 132 (180 - 264) Vac so whether you ha=
ve 220, 230 or 240 should not be an issue for consumer products.&nbsp; Many=
 electronic devices work over the range of 90 to 264 volts but this is beca=
use of some sophisticated electronics in the power supply section specifica=
lly designed to accommodate this range.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">The UK unit, if it is a transformer-based design, mos=
t likely is design for the EU market and will not work as advertised on 120=
 Vac.&nbsp; The electrical requirements are for </font><font size=3D"3"><fo=
nt size=3D"3">230 volts </font>up to 16 amps.&nbsp; To get the same kick ou=
t of a 120 volt device would need over 32 amps which is well in excess of t=
he typical domestic branch circuit and if you are going to run a special ci=
rcuit you may as well make it a 230 volt circuit.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"clear:both"><font size=3D"4">Dave Massey</font><br>
<br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Jim Stone &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: Pat Horne &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Shop Talk &lt;shop-talk@autox.=
team.net&gt;<br>
Sent: Sat, Sep 8, 2018 5:52 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery Starter/Charger<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_1.2_bcad25e7-35d2-4035-be88-562f8298c782">

<div class=3D"aolReplacedBody" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp=
-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">That is true, but it will alm=
ost definitely be a transformer and many (most?) modern transformers can ha=
ndle 110-220v, meaning only a plug converter will be needed. &nbsp;And, if =
the transformer isn=E2=80=99t compatible then it would just be a matter of =
finding a comparable US one. &nbsp;For reference, my Clore charger is 18v 5=
00 mA.
<div><br>
</div>

<div>Which does bring up one drawback of the charger packs: it just took me=
 a minute to find the charger. &nbsp;Without one, the pack is essentially w=
orthless. &nbsp;The Clore came with a cigarette lighter plug that is suppos=
ed to let you charge it directly from a running car, but that never seemed =
to work. &nbsp;It might just be a problem with my charger. &nbsp;I never co=
ntacted them to find out.<br>

<div><br>
<blockquote>
<div>On Sep 8, 2018, at 8:56 AM, Pat Horne &lt;<a target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"=
noopener noreferrer" removedlink__85a00d6c-fcf0-465c-8079-4a2c0f471460__hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</di=
v>
<br class=3D"aolmail_Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>One thing about the UK unit is that it will probably require 220v serv=
ice.&nbsp;
<div><br>
</div>

<div>Peace,</div>

<div>Pat<br>
<br>

<div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font=
-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: no=
rmal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-tra=
nsform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-w=
idth: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;"=
>Pat Horne&nbsp;</span>
<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size:=
 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform=
: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px; text-decoration: none;">We support Caldwell County Habitat for Humanit=
y</div>
<br class=3D"aolmail_Apple-interchange-newline"></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
<br>
</div>
</div>

</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
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[email-masked]

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